# "Muddy faced" Labidochromis Caeruleus



## KhuliLoachFan (Mar 8, 2008)

I remember well a recent "spat" with someone on this board where tempers flared, and this guy who had seen my 75g tank called my labs "muddy faced".

I recently saw this increase on a few of my labs; There were quite prominent dark colorations on their otherwise yellow faces, that indeed looks "muddy".

I took the most muddy colored fish out of my tank during the last rock-rearrangement and put him in his own tank until I decided whether to euthanize him (and then all the other muddy ones) or keep him.

After two weeks, he is no longer muddy colored, and I believe that this is not a sign of permanent coloration due to any "inbreeding" but rather a thing that the fish can turn on or off, much like the way clown loaches "gray out", breeding spots on malawi cichlids, or many fish like Rainbows there are stripes on the fish that they can turn on or off, rather quickly. In fact, with one species of Rainbow, I learned at the last TWAS meeting, you can put it in a white bucket and if it's male, it will display this breeding stripe almost at once.

This rapid changing coloration in fish operates using something called "chromatophores".

Here's a link I found:
http://hawryshynlab.biology.queensu.ca/foci.html

What I want to know is; What cichlid "signals" are known to science, and is "muddy lab face" a signal for breeding purposes, or the opposite .. avoidance of conspecific aggression makes sense to me... All my "muddy labs" are males, and none of them are the dominant male. Is this "muddy face" a subdominant male signal?

I have not yet seen a muddy female in the admittedly small number of generations I have seen in my 75 g tank. Has anyone else?

Warren


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## Tropicana (Feb 15, 2009)

Many many cichlids show colour alterations as a sign of stress, sub-dominance and breeding. And then Cross breeding of course. Sometimes the alterations can be changed in minutes or last a few days to months depending on the situation. 

At least thats what i have observed. I dont think the 'Muddy face' is a thing of concern or anything lol...


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## Windowlicka (Mar 5, 2008)

Nothing to concern yourself over. Last weekend i moved an extremely dominant (and stunning, yet a little "muddy faced") mature male yellow Lab from my 65G to my 90G... Literally overnight the 65G Lab lost his "nasal muddiness", but the resident mature 90G male yellow Lab became _extremely_ dark around his snout... if anything, I'd call the colouration a sign of dominance.

If your Labs are younger, I'd be inclined to suggest that maybe there's a touch of juvenile 'territory testing' going on?

My fish were bought from Finatics, and were sold as extremely good quality Yellow Labs (and they are - the yellow colouration is stunning, with no black and/or white barring through the body). I certainly have no plans to euthanise my guys, and I sincerely hope you don't/won't either!


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## Riceburner (Mar 14, 2008)

The black face is a sign of dominance. My top 2 get this way when fighting for control.


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## bae (May 11, 2007)

Definitely a social signal among males. I call it "five o'clock shadow".


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## blackninja (Dec 3, 2009)

They never display a muddy face under normal conditions and are always an intense yellow. Check what you are feeding them and give them some more light.


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## Darkside (Sep 14, 2009)

The "beard" is a recessive trait that shows up in even the best stock. Most keepers try their best to avoid the beard but it always shows up eventually.


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## Windowlicka (Mar 5, 2008)

blackninja said:


> They never display a muddy face under normal conditions and are always an intense yellow. Check what you are feeding them and give them some more light.


Define: "Normal conditions"

As for better food? It don't get much better than NLS, Omega One, and the occasional fresh veggies, mon frere.

More light? my tank's (I can't/won't speak for others) 48" long, 24" deep and 18" wide (from my research, far shallower, narrower and shorter than Lake Malawi ever has been?). It's located in my hallway (with sun through the front doors in the am and through the patio doors at the rear in the pm). If that ain't enough, there's a couple of T5 bulbs slapped on top just for good measure...

As you'll note from the numerous respondents here, mature male Yellow Labs develop quite a handsome and defined 'beard' irrespective of these "normal conditions" of which you speak!

And personally I think it's quite striking, endearing and part of their allure.


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## blackninja (Dec 3, 2009)

Very unusual to see a muddy face/beard on a yellow lab. Any discoloration is a sign of poor quality either the fish or the water conditions. When you have low quality fish even the best food or lights can do little to improve the situation. They are relatively inexpensive fish so it should not be too difficult to replace.


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## Darkside (Sep 14, 2009)

Windowlicka said:


> Define: "Normal conditions"
> 
> As for better food? It don't get much better than NLS, Omega One, and the occasional fresh veggies, mon frere.
> 
> ...


As long as they look healthy otherwise I wouldn't worry about it. Labs have been in the hobby a long time and this trait always crops up eventually. Unless you're line breeding fish I wouldn't worry about it. How about some pictures of labs? It would probably brighten up the conversation here.


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## Aquatic Designs (Apr 2, 2006)

That is normal for a yellow lab. Of any quality. Regardless of diet. 

Beware. Nearly every store i have seen yellow labs in the last year or so. Have been hybrid zebra's.


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## blackninja (Dec 3, 2009)

One can easily see why a muddy faced yellow lab or a bearded yellow lab might be an endearing and part of their allure when mixed in a tank with other discolored fish. 
If those yellow labs did not have those genetic anomalies they would stand out like a sore thumb with their striking intense color against a backdrop of dull discolored tank mates.
It is hard to get good quality yellow labs especially because they breed easily and there is a glut of cheap low quality ones. We just added one more source for muddy faced and bearded Labidochromis caeruleus.


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## Darkside (Sep 14, 2009)

Aquatic Designs said:


> That is normal for a yellow lab. Of any quality. Regardless of diet.
> 
> Beware. Nearly every store i have seen yellow labs in the last year or so. Have been hybrid zebra's.


There have been quite a few of those over the last year actually, but they're pretty easy to tell apart.


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