# New aquarium



## Reef

Hey everyone, I am thinking of setting up a 72" Length x 24" Width x 20" Height, tank with external overflow and 3 sided Starphire. I was quoted by Miracles for 2300 bucks + HST extra for 5/8" thick tank, eurobraced.

I think Miracles makes good tanks and they are reputable manufacturer.


Is this price reasonable? Is there other reputable makers ?


Thanks
Uma


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## Jiinx

Hi Uma!
I couldn't say on the price as I paid quite a bit for my custom built tank, but I had to comment on how you cute your baby is


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## sig

they sale regular tank *GO WITH IT* AAQ26 180 72X24X24 $850.00 EUROBRACED
or custom
CUSTAQ05A CUSTOM AQUARIUM 170 GAL. 72X18X30 $1,650.00 Eurobraced

but in reality you pay for this tank, because in theory they should cut your 20" from 24" panel

CUSTAQ05C CUSTOM AQUARIUM 260 GAL. 84X24X30 $2,500.00

http://www.miraclesaquariums.com/standard_tanks.html

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## wtac

$2300 is a fair price based on his operation. It's not like <insert name> the Aquarium Guy building it in his parent garage and his buddies are helping him with the heavy work.

Keep in mind that Starfire glass is about 3-5x the cost of regular float glass and the back panel will be sent out for tempering after the channel is cut for the external overflow box.


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## clearnet

I am sure Miracle tanks are worth the money. At that price however, the larger cadlight artisan II aquariums may also be an option worth looking into.


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## sig

had starfire and will never get it again for the SW tank. It is easily scratched

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## noy

Reef said:


> Is there other reputable makers ?


NAFB (North American Fish Breeders) and Primo Reef Acrylics.


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## sig

noy said:


> NAFB (North American Fish Breeders) and Primo Reef Acrylics.


I hope you are not serious.... comparing these to Miracles

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## nc208082

You could compare primo reef. They have made some great tanks. NAFB not so much. If your looking for a fishroom quality or a sump id give them a call but definately not for a display tank.


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## Bullet

I agree that Primo Reef is a premium quality builder
I have one of their custom made tanks and I am very pleased with their superior build quality and competitive price


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## Reef

Thanks guys for these wonderful info, i really appreciate it.

Sig, thanks for the comparison price on the standard and custom tanks from Miracles, I really like Miracles and they make good tanks, also i want starphire because i am planning on a SPS dominant tank and i need it clear as much so i can see those colors well. I used to own low iron based tanks and they do scratch easily, but i cant help it i want starphire 

wtac, thanks man didnt know low iron would cost that much, wow! I thought with the prices of iron going up, producing low iron glass would be cheaper than standard ?

clearnet, I will look into the cadlights 150 Gallon tank, i need to check the drain and overflow size and other specs, but the tank sure looks very nice. For that price i am tempted, but i need to make sure the tank can drain at least 1500 gph.

noy/nc208082, I did get a quote from Primo Reef its for 48" long tank and the price was pretty steep, a bit higher than miracles. But i am not sure if i want to buy from them, this is a big tank and its going to sit in my mainfloor, i want to make sure its safe tank and doesnt leak or cause any other damage.
Primo makes good sumps, i might get a sump or frag tank from them, but i havnt seen anyone with their display tanks yet to see the quality. Again from the videos on you tube looks nice.

I havnt seen any NAFB tanks, are they good as Miracles ?

Thanks
Uma


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## noy

Can't say I ever had a problem with any of NAFB (John)'s builds. 
Probably go to one of NAFB or Primo for my next build - a very customized 90 gallon cube.

$2,300 seems reasonable for a (somewhat) custom build but still lot of money so its definitely worth your while to get a few quotes and ask around about quality. They always seem to have some tanks in progress - so you can check out the build quality. The word is that you want John to do the tank himself (and insist on it).

I think Reef Boutique is another place - I've heard good things but haven't seen their product.


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## Reef

Bullet said:


> I agree that Primo Reef is a premium quality builder
> I have one of their custom made tanks and I am very pleased with their superior build quality and competitive price


I saw their videos and seems like hes building from his home , i asked him a couple of times if i can see his shop but he responded that they do onsite work and not much in house, but his work does look very pristine and neat, he seemed very detailed oriented too.



noy said:


> Can't say I ever had a problem with any of NAFB (John)'s builds.
> Probably go to one of NAFB or Primo for my next build - a very customized 90 gallon cube.
> 
> Uma/Reef - $2,300 seems reasonable for a (somewhat) custom build but still lot of money so its definitely worth your while to get a few quotes and ask around about quality.


Yeah thats what i am inclined to believe, i will definitely visit Jonny for quote, he made a few sumps for me in the past. Great guy!


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## Rappyfly

Visit some stores and talk to the owner and see who built their tanks, it will give u some ideas. The name of the manufacture isn't important anymore. Who is putting their hands building yours in important. It can be a Monday or Friday job.

Considering about height, 5/8 is overengineering in term of building a 150 gallon tank. Over built or bullet proof isn't great engineering or necessary, just less risk for the builder. 

Unless you will have a team to complete the setup, it will hard to find help on moving the tank to its position, esp 5/8 tank.

If you are buying a used tank with above spec, will you pay 50% of the quote price?


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## Reef

Rappyfly said:


> Visit some stores and talk to the owner and see who built their tanks, it will give u some ideas. The name of the manufacture isn't important anymore. Who is putting their hands building yours in important. It can be a Monday or Friday job.
> 
> Considering about height, 5/8 is overengineering in term of building a 150 gallon tank. Over built or bullet proof isn't great engineering or necessary, just less risk for the builder.
> 
> Unless you will have a team to complete the setup, it will hard to find help on moving the tank to its position, esp 5/8 tank.


Luckily this time this tank is going to the main floor, so its easy to bring it and place it. But i guess visiting a few people would be nice and seeing their tanks.

I once brought this tank below into my basement back in 2009, its a 245G .75" thick beast,
i need a 6 pack to talk about how we managed to take it down and also take it out of the basement a few months later without ripping my house apart  and i didnt mean the 6 pack abs

Thanks
Uma


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## Reef

Rappyfly said:


> If you are buying a used tank with above spec, will you pay 50% of the quote price?


good question, depends on the durability of the tank, how many years it was used, how long it was sitting without water in it, scratches, etc ... but 50% seems like a steal of a deal


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## teemee

Hi Uma! so glad to see you're going to have another tank.
guys - his previous tank was to put it mildly one of the nicest tanks in the city.
Uma, you might want to check with Kraken - he's having tanks custom made in China, and from what I can tell, they're quite nice and a bit more affordable than Miracles. I'm sure you can get some feedback on the forum, at least a few people got them.
hope to cross paths with you again soon,
Margaret


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## sig

nc208082 said:


> You could compare primo reef. They have made some great tanks. NAFB not so much. If your looking for a fishroom quality or a sump id give them a call but definately not for a display tank.


I never had tank from primo reef and can not discuss quality. I am talking about machinery, capacity, etc.
For sure primo reef does not cut 20' glass panels itself.
I can order any size tank from Miracles and have it next day, because they have glass and people to deal with this

you can see here few images of Miracle facilities and one of my tanks

http://gtaaquaria.com/forum/showthread.php?t=76962
http://gtaaquaria.com/forum/showthread.php?t=76962&page=2

BTW, I do not have any financial interest in referring you there. I do have experience with few builders in GTA (excluding Primo Reef) and would not recommend anybody. Until you are ready to get crappy tank (50/50 chance) or wait months. IMO

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## clearnet

I have been planning for a larger setup as well. Let us know which route you end up going! If you go with the Cadlight, maybe we can do a small group buy!

I have been in touch with primo as well. It seems that they are quite busy. However, he is very detailed and patient whenever you are able to catch up with him though.


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## fesso clown

I have an 80x20x20 starfire custom by Miracles and I am so glad I went that route and spent a little more right off the bat. It is a beautiful tank, guarenteed and I never look at it and think "upgrade someday" like all my other equipement. 
The price is a bit high but you really do get what you pay for and it will still be a beautiful tank in 15-20 years and will hold its value. 
I checked out primo and the price was about the same actually more maybe. I would have gone with Miracles even if it was a little less because of the support I have confidence in should anything go wrong with the tank.
NAFB... No comment.


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## Reef

teemee said:


> Hi Uma! so glad to see you're going to have another tank.
> guys - his previous tank was to put it mildly one of the nicest tanks in the city.
> Uma, you might want to check with Kraken - he's having tanks custom made in China, and from what I can tell, they're quite nice and a bit more affordable than Miracles. I'm sure you can get some feedback on the forum, at least a few people got them.
> hope to cross paths with you again soon,
> Margaret


Hey Margaret; good to see you here, hope you still running that big tank. you should come visit once I finish setting up my new tank. I will check out Kraken, who is Kraken BTW?

Thanks
Uma


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## Reef

clearnet said:


> I have been planning for a larger setup as well. Let us know which route you end up going! If you go with the Cadlight, maybe we can do a small group buy!
> 
> I have been in touch with primo as well. It seems that they are quite busy. However, he is very detailed and patient whenever you are able to catch up with him though.


Do you know where we can get more detail specs on the tank ?


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## Reef

sig said:


> I never had tank from primo reef and can not discuss quality. I am talking about machinery, capacity, etc.
> For sure primo reef does not cut 20' glass panels itself.
> I can order any size tank from Miracles and have it next day, because they have glass and people to deal with this
> 
> you can see here few images of Miracle facilities and one of my tanks
> 
> http://gtaaquaria.com/forum/showthread.php?t=76962
> http://gtaaquaria.com/forum/showthread.php?t=76962&page=2
> 
> BTW, I do not have any financial interest in referring you there. I do have experience with few builders in GTA (excluding Primo Reef) and would not recommend anybody. Until you are ready to get crappy tank (50/50 chance) or wait months. IMO


That's a very nice tank indeed, no doubt they make excellent tanks.



fesso clown said:


> I have an 80x20x20 starfire custom by Miracles and I am so glad I went that route and spent a little more right off the bat. It is a beautiful tank, guarenteed and I never look at it and think "upgrade someday" like all my other equipement.
> The price is a bit high but you really do get what you pay for and it will still be a beautiful tank in 15-20 years and will hold its value.
> I checked out primo and the price was about the same actually more maybe. I would have gone with Miracles even if it was a little less because of the support I have confidence in should anything go wrong with the tank.
> NAFB... No comment.


That's exactly what I want also, no regrets after getting the tank. 80" that should give an amazing panoramic view, what lights are you using, looks like Radions ?


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## sig

Reef said:


> That's a very nice tank indeed, no doubt they make excellent tanks.
> That's exactly what I want also, no regrets after getting the tank. 80" that should give an amazing panoramic view, what lights are you using, looks like Radions ?


I assume you are aware that Miracles has "abounded" tanks, which you can get cheaper.

If I remember correctly, it is how Fesso got his

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## fesso clown

Yes I am running 3 radions but I am switching to a 60 inch 6 bulb ATI T5. I will run sup LED with it.


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## wtac

Miracles is the only builder in ON that I am aware of that stocks their own full sheets of glass, has the facility not only for machinery/tooling to cut and polish the glass to spec but a environmentally controlled room for proper silicone curing for larger aquariums. They also have vehicles to deliver. Everyone else gets their glass from company X to deliver to Y and Z builds it.

Not saying one is better than the other or whom you should approach for your build. Just how the business is done here in ON


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## clearnet

It's not so easy to get that list of abandoned tank from my experience. Any of you guys have a bit of relationship with them can find out that info?


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## sig

I think you must visit. Some people go there to order tank and as result get these abounded. I got one of mine in this one and another guy I know

but there is never guarantee that they have what you are looking for

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## Marz

Yes, I was there today. If the drive isn't too far I highly recommend going.


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## fesso clown

When I went in perdon to order my custom Derek and I walked through "the boneyard" where he found 96x20 panels of starefire. That's how I ended up with 80x20x20 for an amazing deal. (I didn't have room for the full 96 but he would have charged me the same. The panels had been sitting outside for a long time and he gave me an amazing price. I can't find 1 scratch. 
Derek is a really great guy and it really does make sense to GI in person to see what may be sitting around.


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## jabeuy

I'm intrigued  
How good a deal for these "abandoned" tanks are we talking about?


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## Reef

fesso clown said:


> Yes I am running 3 radions but I am switching to a 60 inch 6 bulb ATI T5. I will run sup LED with it.


Do you like the ATI because of the T5 supplementation? I thought the Radions had it all?


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## clearnet

Marz said:


> Yes, I was there today. If the drive isn't too far I highly recommend going.


Were there any abandoned tank thats shallower in dimensions?


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## Reef

sig said:


> I think you must visit. Some people go there to order tank and as result get these abounded. I got one of mine in this one and another guy I know
> 
> but there is never guarantee that they have what you are looking for





Marz said:


> Yes, I was there today. If the drive isn't too far I highly recommend going.





fesso clown said:


> When I went in perdon to order my custom Derek and I walked through "the boneyard" where he found 96x20 panels of starefire. That's how I ended up with 80x20x20 for an amazing deal. (I didn't have room for the full 96 but he would have charged me the same. The panels had been sitting outside for a long time and he gave me an amazing price. I can't find 1 scratch.
> Derek is a really great guy and it really does make sense to GI in person to see what may be sitting around.


Actually if you visit their facebook page you can see some of their abandon tanks for sale with prices attached, not sure how old these ads are though, i think they maybe there for a while.

After hearing all this, I am definitely planning to visit them, i wonder if they are open on Saturdays ? Or i guess i will have to skip work on Monday


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## Marz

I didn't look at the boneyard  I know that when I was looking for one a couple of months ago there were a few, but then through my posts and a few forum members, I am going to have one made and Derek was very accommodating.


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## fesso clown

Reef said:


> Do you like the ATI because of the T5 supplementation? I thought the Radions had it all?


Other way around, I want T5HO with LED supplementation. I am not happy with the growth I am getting with my Radions, I have never been able to dial them in.


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## Marz

Reef said:


> Actually if you visit their facebook page you can see some of their abandon tanks for sale with prices attached, not sure how old these ads are though, i think they maybe there for a while.
> 
> After hearing all this, I am definitely planning to visit them, i wonder if they are open on Saturdays ? Or i guess i will have to skip work on Monday


Always call ahead to let them know when you are thinking of coming by...at least that's what I do.


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## fesso clown

Pretty sure they are not open on the weekends.


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