# Are you using Febreze in your home ?



## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

This may sound an odd question. But one of my cats is very sick, and I learned from my vet just the other day that the veterinary pathologists have discovered that Febreze causes liver damage that is killing cats and perhaps other pets too.

If it can cause enough damage to kill a cat, what might it do to fish or shrimp ?
If you use this stuff, you might want to reconsider, or not use it near your tanks, and certainly not on pet bedding or anywhere your dog or cat likes to sleep.

Just thought I'd pass it along, I'd never heard it before and the company that makes it absolutely denies it does this, but the pathologists are seeing more and more cases that they are able to tie directly to Febreze use in the home.
I'm glad I quit using it long, long ago.


----------



## MDR (Feb 20, 2012)

There are a couple threads on other sites about use of bleach and the fumes condensing and dripping into the tank, killing the inhabitants, can't see how Febreeze much different.
I try to avoid any synthetic smell, partly because they send me into a coughing fit....yes I'm talking to you Axe body spray users who seem to think a 10 second spray is equivalent to a shower. That and I doubt the propellants and other chemicals which I cannot pronounce are beneficial to health in the long term.


----------



## menagerie (Mar 18, 2006)

Your vet should really become more informed with up to date research. While using around birds is acknowledged to pose a possible risk the use around cats and dogs was proven safe. Any aerosol product should be used with caution in any room that is inadequately ventilated

http://www.snopes.com/critters/crusader/febreze.asp

The Menagerie is not an advocate for the use any aerosols to control pet odors or any manufacturers. Become informed before using any product in your home around any pets.


----------



## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

Well, my vet didn't tell me anything about internet rumours. What she said was that the veterinary pathologists, the ones who do necropsies to try to determine the cause of death of an animal, are telling her that they are seeing a link to Febreze use, and it's usually the liver that's damaged. That is pretty specific information, and she did not tell me I should not use the stuff either, only that the link had been discovered. My choice what to do about it. And she wasn't talking about dogs.. it was cats. Snopes article appears to mainly concern dogs.

And the fact the product has been around for years now actually makes the idea it may be a problem more believable to me. We all know that any number of compounds that were initially thought to be safe, tested and whatnot, turned out to be toxic after years of exposure. Maybe the pets who were affected had owners who drowned their furniture in Febreze, providing a much greater dosage than was intended by the manufacturer. But over the long term, if you're using something daily or weekly even, dosage increases. It is meant for use on things that are not going to be washed, so it's there, building up.

I'm no expert, don't claim to be one. But given a choice, if there is even the slightest chance Febreze might harm any animal I have, I would not use the stuff. I've noticed recently that many non stick cooking pans have a warning on them not to have birds anywhere near them when they are hot, because they may give off fumes that kill birds if they are overheated. Don't keep birds, but even human beings are being affected by some of those non stick coatings. Hence such things as the Greenpan, some sort of ceramic non stick that is said not to give off any of the fumes that are dangerous. They aren't as non stick as Teflon, but I'd rather use a bit of oil than breathe the fumes. 

I'm allergic to a ton of things, but I happen to like the scent of Febreze.. I did use it for awhile when it was new. But I kept popping up new allergies and decided the less chemical exposure I had overall, the better off I'd be. 

Anyone is free to choose if they wish to believe this or not, but I have quite a hard time believing that veterinary pathologists are crying wolf over Febreze. They have nothing to gain by pointing fingers for no reason.


----------



## Bayinaung (Feb 24, 2012)

What about a girl who uses too much perfume? do I have to choose between her and my fish & corals?


----------



## MDR (Feb 20, 2012)

Bayinaung said:


> What about a girl who uses too much perfume? do I have to choose between her and my fish & corals?


As long as she doesn't swim in the tank you should be ok


----------



## LTPGuy (Aug 8, 2012)

Bayinaung said:


> What about a girl who uses too much perfume? do I have to choose between her and my fish & corals?


Isn't the choice clear?! Fish & Corals all the ways!


----------



## Bayinaung (Feb 24, 2012)

LOL.... I'm gonna have to tell her.. honey... I like you au naturale.... LMAO

and convince her by staying down there longer... ps does anyone have snorkel gear I can borrow?


----------



## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

I'm finding more and more places that ask you not to wear perfume these days too. I used to wear it every day. But now, so many are sensitive or allergic, I keep it more for special occasions. 

But I'd rather smell good than not, so I try to stick to scent made from essential oils only, rather than the synthetics, which are, unfortunately, much cheaper.


----------



## Bwhiskered (Oct 2, 2008)

If it can cause liver damage to pets then what about small children or even your self?


----------



## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

That's something I have wondered about also. Plenty of things affect humans adversely, and there's no doubt we haven't yet learned enough about a great many things now in use. Plus people combine one thing with another, different brands, different interpretations of the instructions, assuming one even reads them in the first place.

And it is a sad fact that consumer product testing is done by the manufacturers themselves. There is little incentive to be honest and accurate, or zealous in the testing phase. It's not in their interest to have tests show adverse results. In most cases they are not overseen by independent entities who have no monetary interest in the results of the tests. There have been too many incidents where it's been learned later on that test results were fudged or outright falsified, for medications, products and other things over the years, resulting in many lawsuits.

Because there is so much at stake for the companies, and long term testing costs a fortune, I haven't a lot of faith in the testing that is done. Even short tests cost far too much nowadays. Companies too often elect to take risks rather than test thoroughly. Settling a few lawsuits is often much cheaper than the tests would have been.

I've a friend who does university research, which all depends on grants. You only get another grant if the powers that be like your results from the last time. Researchers are so hemmed in by regulations; requirements for safety, reporting, protective equipment; all sorts of permissions and papers and hoops to jump through. She was only half joking about practically having to wear a hazmat suit just to go to work, though she isn't working with anything remotely dangerous.

She tells me the cost of doing research, particularly in North America and most of Europe has become prohibitively high. Some of that research is being done to test safety or efficacy of new products. Costs are so prohibitive for many types of research that most of it's being done now in India or other such countries, where human test subjects can be used without any fuss at all.

There's always a New this or that, Improved this or that, the latest, the greatest something else. We don't really need a lot of these things. But advertising is there, using psychology to make us want the new things.

When I was growing up, if the couch or the rug got dirty or stained, you used soap or detergent, [ then full of phosphates, now restricted or banned ], and maybe paint thinner on grease stains. If it was a bit stinky, it went out in the sun for a few days. If all else failed, you called in the professional cleaners.

Today, you're supposed to spray your carpet or couch with something that smells nice, but is supposed to kill bacteria causing the odours. I did use this stuff for awhile when it was new - I quit because of all the allergies, as I said. Now I think it's not only unnecessary, but quite probably stupid to use this type of product, regardless of the brand name. We've become obsessed, both with killing bacteria and with not smelling what life really smells like. All we achieve by spraying this stuff on the couch is creating bacteria which are harder to kill in the future, while possibly poisoning our pets & likely ourselves too. We're hastening bacterial evolution or mutation into hardier bugs potentially more dangerous than ever before.

Today, I borrow or rent a carpet/upholstery steam cleaner machine and it leaves things smelling clean, which is a nicely neutral non scent to my nose.

My grandmother cleaned her house with vinegar, water, a bit of soap, rags and a scrub brush. Her house was spotless. Her air freshener was an open window. Drapes and cushions went out in the sun in a dry week to freshen up, and she'd whack 'em hard with a beater to get out the dust. She lived to be 100 and was rarely ill until she was very old indeed.

All these products we have now, be it shampoo, air freshener, deodorant or Febreze, are made with an assortment of chemicals, including synthetic scents. Natural ones cost too much to use. So there are hundreds of chemicals we use, often daily, while we have little to no idea of what the cumulative effects of all these varied exposures may be, on humans or animals or plants. We're all guinea pigs, and so are the animals who live with us.

In a way, this has been something that's been part of my life for a long time. My Dad passed away when he was 46, when I was 15. He worked in the agricultural chemical division for Shell Canada after graduating from the U of T as a chemical engineer. He turned down an offer to swim for the Olympic team, 'cause he wanted to work & pay his parent's back for his education. Started out selling and demonstrating agricultural chemicals. He stayed super fit all his life, I can still remember the sounds from the living room, Dad doing his daily workout every morning before he'd shower, eat & leave for work. He was popping handsprings over our 6 foot back fence at 40, while his colleagues had beer bellies and couldn't do two pushups.

Later he was promoted. He became the Manager of Shell's Resins & Plastics division.We had experimental stuff in the house all the time.. paints, varnish, glues, all kinds of things. My first bed was assembled with epoxy glue, painted with epoxy paint, long before it came to market. The whole house was paneled in wood Dad finished himself with something like Varathane, before it came to market. He sprayed our apple tree on a careful schedule, and we had tons of beautiful apples, and a beautiful lawn. Dad sprayed, weeded, fertilized, rolled ,watered and manicured that lawn to a glowing green carpet that never went dormant. No water restrictions back then. He was a meticulously careful, perfectionistic man who read directions and followed any precautions given.

But he died of a rare, really ugly cancer, Lymphosarcoma. Still rare today; still completely incurable. His immediate superior at the company had this very same cancer, and he died too, within months of my Dad. Both of them chemical engineers who worked with all the new chemicals that came along after WW II. There was DDT and so many other things, when living better chemically was expected to solve the world's problems. Then later, both of them working in the newly burgeoning field of plastics, a whole new set of chemicals that had never existed before. I'm sure they took what precautions were thought to be needed, but it wasn't anywhere near enough. The exposures from his job killed him.

I don't really know how much any of those products were tested before being marketed. But they were considered safe and used in homes, businesses & farms, all over the world for decades, before they started to discover some negative long term effects. They learned DDT was leading peregrine falcons and other birds of prey to the edge of extinction, because it made their eggs so fragile they'd break before they could hatch. Sure, DDT was banned here, but it's still used widely elsewhere, in Africa and other places, mainly to kill disease bearing mosquitoes.

I try very hard not to buy into every report of 'this will kill you'' that will kill you' that comes along. But my generation was the first to be born into a world containing a veritable soup of man made compounds that had never existed on earth before men made them. Even if they'd wanted to, there simply wasn't any way to test for every possible interaction between every molecule of every substance under every conceivable condition that might occur. And we know that there ARE some very nasty effects from some things. We just don't know them all.

Thus we are guinea pigs, and by the time some of the ill effects have been figured out, for some of us it will be far too late to undo whatever damage has been done. My choice is to limit the number and kind of products I use, and choose the ones I think are least likely to do harm, if I can, both for myself and the pets I choose to keep.


----------



## TorontoBoy (Mar 14, 2013)

Looking back, there are so many cases where we confirm that what was previously safe is now harmful. This is how science progresses, and this is inevitable. Only time will show us if a product has negative long-term effects. We all have a choice of what products to use. You may choose to live on the leading edge, but for safety I do not.

There is no provable correlation between, for example, using Febreze, and certain illnesses, that is for sure. At this point in history with the scientific knowledge of today, the product was tested safe, and there are no guarantees for the future. This does not mean the product is proven safe in the long-term. The sample size is still too small, and only time will tell. I am skeptical of many new fangled chemicals and choose not to expose my family to them, especially those that have dubious benefit.

We, as a society, have been using ground up cochineal beetle for red dye in food and clothing for centuries. This has been proven safe, not from lab testing but from long-term use. I prefer this anecdotal evidence rather than the standard short-term scientific lab testing we have today, but for new products to be released, we have no other better option.


----------



## zfarsh (Apr 7, 2011)

interesting, thanks for sharing. 

btw, I try to tell my wife not to put on her nail polish in the aquarium room, or near me. I for one get dizzy with the smell, and have to open the windows, and for second, I get afraid it might be toxic for my plants / fish.


----------



## Bayinaung (Feb 24, 2012)

yeah I'm going to stop using that stuff so thanks for letting us know. bad for me and my fish. I think we have to adjust our nose thresholds in north american society. Just imagine just two centuries ago, Europeans were dumping feces and urine out the window into the middle of the street! LMAO. And just a century ago, Chicago river was basically, an OPEN SEWER! LITERALLY!

It was unhealthy, in a different way. LMAO. 

but point being, yeah we can live with a little BO, for a healthier environment, can't we all?


----------



## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

I remember learning in history classes that perfume was popular with the nobles and courts of Europe back in the 15,16, 1700's and even into the 1800's, because it helped disguise the actual BO of the people. It was believed that bathing was very unhealthy. So very few people ever bathed. The Chinese and Arab nations were much more advanced in that department. I can't even imagine what it must have been like in a world where nobody bathed.

And spices were precious because they could disguise the taste of spoiled meat. No cold storage, so meat did not last very long before it went off. Not too many of us born in this country truly understand how different it is if you don't have many things we take for granted, such as fridges and stoves and indoor plumbing, unless you travel to places where these things are not available.

And there are still too many bodies of water that are far too close to being open sewers. We are blessed in Canada with plentiful fresh water, but even now we don't care for it as carefully as we should. Pollution laws are flaunted still, because it costs so much less than to follow the rules. But there are so many places on earth that simply don't have enough clean water, for drinking or cooking, never mind cleanliness.


----------



## colio (Dec 8, 2012)

Fishfur said:


> I can't even imagine what it must have been like in a world where nobody bathed.


Well... stinky! but a strange thing happens when a person never washes. Eventually, the grime builds up a bit, and clogs the smell some. back then, people were never as stinky as they were right after a bath. That is, of course, assuming normal behavior otherwise. I am sure many of us have had the experience of the terrible smelling homeless person on the subway. but that is different. : p


----------



## Zombie Fish (Feb 13, 2012)

Use of any chemically scented air freshener has the potential to be harmful and generally not a good idea. There are other ways to deal with pet odours. There is a product called nature clean that simply uses a mixture of hydrogen peroxide and water (can probly make it at home) that is generally safe for pets in the case of cats and dogs; dont know how it'll effect aquarim water tho.


----------



## Bayinaung (Feb 24, 2012)

colio said:


> Well... stinky!. I am sure many of us have had the experience of the terrible smelling homeless person on the subway. but that is different. : p


OMG you just gave me a freakin smell FLASH BACK!!!!! LMAO!!!!!


----------



## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

Sadly true. I have walked past my share of unfortunate folk on the street and as I went along I've been able to tell where they'd walked for a block or more afterward, as their, thanks to the effluvium they left hanging in the air for some time after they passed by. 

Though I don't see how being grimy might lessen the impact of body odour, even if it could, I sincerely hope I never have to live anywhere that bathing is not a regular part of hygiene. I wish there was such a thing as time travel because I'd love to know how the theory that bathing would make you sick came to be in the first place.


----------

