# The weird world of a betta



## monk21 (Dec 5, 2012)

I have been in the hobby for years, I have set up and torn down dozens of tanks. One of the things that still buffles me and cannot explain fully is the betta. How are they supposed to live? Alone? With company? In a bowl? Small tank? Big tank? Do they need a heater? A filter? Are they aggressive or just territorial? Maybe even just misunderstood?

I have tried to seriously keep bettas twice. Both times, both bettas ended up with rotten fins and tails. Both times in a community tank with no aggressive fish around. Never saw another fish seriously harrasing them. Both times they were in perfect water conditions. Being fed the best. Were they eating? Not always. Big tanks, 25, 35, 75 gallon tanks. Plants. Everything. Got sick. Why?

I have NEVER seen a dead betta in a cup though. I have seen hundreds of any other fish dying. In homes, stores etc. A betta in a cup? Never even got sick in front of my eyes. I have heard stories of people keeping bettas in 1 gallon bowls for years. 3, 4 even 5. 

When I understand bettas, I will be content. Your thoughts


----------



## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

I can try to help a bit. male bettas need to be alone in a small tank is best with a heater and very low water flow. Males flare and get really aggressive when they see another fish, if this happens constantly, it will greatly stress them out which then weakens their immune system which then allows bacteria and stuff to attack them.

Females can be in a community tank with other fish but still need lower water flow.

Many people keep a betta in a tiny container and many of us here feel that is not nice. I have a betta in a nice 2.5 gallon tank with a heater and ac20 filter turned down all the way. I actually just rescaped it last night, the micro chain sword was becoming a problem for him and I replaced the lava rock I had in it with Mopani wood and greatly reduced the plants in the tank to give him more room, I just need to fine one or two very small plants to add in and it will be great.


----------



## monk21 (Dec 5, 2012)

Ok, so we have one vote for "alome male in a very very small tank = success". Thanks for the input.

It makes me wonder though what is happening in their natural habitat. Where they do see other fish


----------



## Ciddian (Mar 15, 2006)

I will let you know that betta's do die in cups. I have worked for a few pet stores and seen my share of dead fish. The goal is to change that water often with some nice fresh cycled water.

As a store, you should never see dead betta in the cups. Doesn't mean they will thrive in there. IMO. 

I find I cannot keep crowns well in my water. They do not do well at all with hardness. I used IAL, Blackwater... I did have good luck with heavy blackwater use in the tanks but I hate the look of tannins. 

I usually aim for something around 2.5 gallons. Heated. I have had good luck with this.  I change about 50% of the water a week.


----------



## ksimdjembe (Nov 11, 2006)

*betta ideas*

I can agree with many with regard to three things that are often cited with bettas over the years.
1 - sometimes your water is not compatible with them (some might be used to softer, some needing really clear and clean, etc)
2 - sometimes it depends on the temperament of the fish (some are less interested in other fish
3 - often the bettas that come in are of large shipments of imports from areas that have sustained great stress to get here. This is not to say that they will not survive. It does however mean that many times people report their betta in poor health or they dont last very long.

I have had positive experience with both small tanks and larger-ish tanks for bettas. 
I've had a shorter finned (though I wouldn't have said plakat) live communally in a 20 gallon with some community fish for about 3 years.
I've also had a few bettas that had smaller tanks (2.5s and 4), One that I had in a 1 gal bowl (but that I would not do again - too much work)


----------



## bettaforu (Sep 6, 2009)

I have kept 3 Bettas over the years to the ripe old age of 5 years old in just a nice 1 gallon glass bowl with a piece of java fern for resting on and no filter, no heater, just sitting on my dresser in the living room.

I changed their water every 3 days, plain old tap water of PH 7.6 with just some stresscoat and a pinch of aquarium salt added to the water.

Some Bettas will live longer than others, its not guaranteed how long they will live or the conditions or tank size, its just not possible to determine this.

Bettas on the whole don't like fast water like in a big tank with a HOB or airstones. Bettas like almost no flow (as in the rice paddies where they live in Thailand) where they can hunt for insects floating on the surface (why they like live flies and gammarus shrimps...aka scuds) and a happy Betta will blow bubbles on the surface of his tank on a regular basis (in preparation for any females that might just come by)

If you watch a Betta eat they look up at the surface then lunge at the food there, this would be how they hunt in the wild.

Male Bettas flare at opponents to make them move away from the area in case there is a female nearby that they are interested in. They would have set territories in the wild...once breeding was over the females would take off and leave the male to tend the eggs/fry, then those too would eventually swim off to find their own spot somewhere. Males Bettas spend a lot of time alone!

You can keep females together in a community tank somewhat successfully, but they have a pecking order, one dominant female rules the tank and the rest just usually try to stay out of her way, so lots of plants are needed for this type of tank.

I have kept 2 Halfmoon Plakat males in a 20 gallon tank with lots of plants before without them killing one another....they seem to be more accepting of another male than the Halfmoons (larger with longer fins)

I also had a male and female HM live together without any problems, because they were in fact brother and sister (never tried to spawn) and seemed perfectly happy to keep one another company.

I would not try this with unrelated pairs as the male will most likely kill the female either during mating or afterwards.

Some Bettas can be kept with NO heater and some can't. I have a couple here that don't like the cooler temps and will just lay on the bottom of the containers, so I moved them into a heated community tank and up they perked 

Everyone will have a different opinion on how to keep Bettas, but I can assure you from long time keeping/breeding Bettas, that the key is the water quality and not overfeeding them!

Clean water, a strict feeding schedule (in my case am and pm only a few pellets and 1 day without feeding) with the occasional treat of bloodworms is the best policy for keeping a Betta.

Put it somewhere it can see you and *interact with you *and it will live longer....they are personable fish, they LIKE people....so talk to them and
watch them show their stuff for you each day.


----------



## housebatbetta (Sep 19, 2013)

I've seen dozens of dead bettas in bowls. More, if you count the ones that I haven't seen but know exist.

I lurk the local petstores a lot. I like daydreaming about what I want to get, which betta fish look the most like one I might have. I find watching fish very peaceful and calming. But it makes me sad, too, as the bettas deteriorate over time. Clamped fins, floating, laying sideways, gasping for air, shredded fins - these are the kind of things I've seen over and over again when I look at pet store bettas in tiny bowls. They're okay the first three weeks or so after they come in, and sometimes water changes perk them up for a while, but overall... it's not pretty.

I'll link you to some resources that I found very helpful, since I'm a beginner and I was seeking help from more experienced betta owners. You might find them helpful as well.

Bettablogging's beginner betta tank guide:

__
https://55522511689%2Fwhy-do-i-need-a-5-5-gallon-a-5-5-gallon-is-great%5B

Betta-adventures' info posts:

__
https://41704309751%2Fuseful-links-on-my-blog%5B
 (use the search box to look up specific advice or information - r/aquariums and r/plantedtank has some useful info as well).

The betta care section on bettafish.com: http://www.bettafish.com/forumdisplay.php?f=30

While it is possible to keep them in unheated/unfiltered bowls and with company in certain circumstances, as bettaforu mentioned, it seems like the consensus on the safest bet is to go a bit bigger (2.5+), have a heater, and to keep them alone. That also gives you more room to play with plants, if you want to!


----------



## Ryan.Wilton (Dec 12, 2012)

monk21 said:


> I have been in the hobby for years, I have set up and torn down dozens of tanks. One of the things that still buffles me and cannot explain fully is the betta. How are they supposed to live? Alone? With company? In a bowl? Small tank? Big tank? Do they need a heater? A filter? Are they aggressive or just territorial? Maybe even just misunderstood?
> 
> I have tried to seriously keep bettas twice. Both times, both bettas ended up with rotten fins and tails. Both times in a community tank with no aggressive fish around. Never saw another fish seriously harrasing them. Both times they were in perfect water conditions. Being fed the best. Were they eating? Not always. Big tanks, 25, 35, 75 gallon tanks. Plants. Everything. Got sick. Why?
> 
> ...


Bettas are a very interesting species. The ones we see in stores have been bred for generations for their fighting abilities. Sadly, this means that it's one male per tank. Generally speaking, you should have no filter for them as excess water movement causes them stress. The same this goes with an aerator. Heaters are a coin toss, if you've got the room it's nice to have, but they'll survive without one easily.

As for the tank size, I'd say get a 2gallon aquarium. The larger the tank, the more issues betta's seem to have. This could be because of their labyrinth systems, a small internal organ similar to our lung. Bettas need access to surface air so that they can actually breath, opposed to most fish who absorb the oxygen via the water.

Anyways I hope this info helps a bit, but for a true insight into bettas I'd suggest you pick up the Betta Handbook by Barron, Big Als usually has a copy of them for around the $15 range.


----------



## monk21 (Dec 5, 2012)

All that info is great guys. I took the sick betta out of my big tank and put him in a 2.5 gallon with glass lid that b5lreathes though, no filter or heater, led marineland lights, sand, plants, driftwood, rocks and a snail. He seems to be doing fine.

I will be feeding once a day and I will be changing 30 to 50% water every 3 or 4 days


----------



## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

make sure it's not in a cold area or get a heater. You could just go with a little sponge filter to if you wanted


----------



## Mykuhl (Apr 8, 2013)

With no filter and that size tank, you would be much better off doing what Betta4U suggests and changing 100% of the water every 3 days. Also bare bottom is better for bettas, not to mention easier to clean.


----------



## bettaforu (Sep 6, 2009)

Good luck with him. Just watch out for sand, Bettas can swallow it from picking off the bottom and it can become a major problem for their digestive systems. I much prefer a bare bottom tank/bowl only as its much easier to see uneaten food and clean up the poop.

I have found the best little filter to be the Marina I25 which you can get a Petsmart/Pjs not sure about BAs. It has replaceable cartridges that come in a 2 pack for 3.99. It fits inside the tank (2.5 it perfect for this filter) and does not create a lot of surface movement. 

You will still need to clean your Betta's tank bottom either way as the filter won't do that for you, so having a bare tank bottom is just much easier all round. The filter will keep the ammonia levels down somewhat, but uneaten food and waste will create ammonia spikes that can lead to bacterial infections in Bettas, who are very subseptible to this....fin rot being the big one. Once fin rot sets in you will need a daily salt water bath treatment to control it.

As mentioned Bettas need to breathe air constantly, and they like to blow bubbles (its in their nature to do this) so they don't care for big fast water flows, and this filter if kept just above the water line creates very little disturbance allowing the Betta to blow his bubble nest in the opposite corner.

I also use this filter for my shrimp tanks too, just put a stocking over the bottom intake section to keep baby shrimps from climbing in.

You can get a small flat heater that will fit the 2.5 gallon tank and I believe there is a small 25W one that also can fit inside this size tank.


----------



## Ryan.Wilton (Dec 12, 2012)

Mykuhl said:


> With no filter and that size tank, you would be much better off doing what Betta4U suggests and changing 100% of the water every 3 days. Also bare bottom is better for bettas, not to mention easier to clean.


I would never recommend changing 100% of tank water on any aquarium. This will cause a mini cycle, especially on an unfiltered tank.


----------



## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

The thing with having a betta in a plain bowl with no filter or anything is there is no cycle to disrupt with a full water change. I would never put a fish in a tank without some kind of filter. I would at the very least have lots of plants to be the filter.


----------



## Mykuhl (Apr 8, 2013)

Ryan.Wilton said:


> I would never recommend changing 100% of tank water on any aquarium. This will cause a mini cycle, especially on an unfiltered tank.


Actually... that's the whole point of doing a 100% water change in an unfiltered tank...it is BECAUSE there is no cycle established that you do the 100% water change. This is done this often in order to not let ammonia or other waste products build up. It is simply another (and sucessful) way to keep the water clean.

Also, a 100% water change will not cause a mini-cycle in an established cycled tank. Not if you match water parameters somewhat closely, and probably even if you don't. The bacteria do not live in the water column.


----------



## SwimmyD (Feb 9, 2013)

Wow! This is really interesting reading with lots of good information folks! I don't keep bettas, but if I ever do- I would come back and read this thread!


----------



## hoody123 (Oct 24, 2012)

Clearly I'm a novice compared to many people here, but I can share my experience with the bettas that I have.

I've got a few different tanks with bettas in them. I have a Fluval Flora tank that has a male and 4 female bettas, it's planted quite heavily with peacock moss and coral moss (growing on a "tree"). The filter is turned as low as will go and they seem exceptionally happy in there. I have a second tank right beside that, it's a .... I don't remember which, a 5 gallon long shallow tank that is lightly planted, it has 2 females, a male and 20ish Crystal Red Shrimp (I realize we'll NEVER see babies in there), the flow is quite low in that tank as well, and again, they're very happy.

Interestingly, it would seem the bettas are fond of endler guppy fry. I have a 25 gallon tank that is ridiculously over planted with endlers (and some other fish). The endlers are super prolific, so I take 15-20 fry every couple of weeks and drop them in the tanks upstairs, they never last long!

I'm not going to say that I'm doing anything best practice (I have no idea honestly), but my fish seem to be happy with their living space.


----------



## Ryan.Wilton (Dec 12, 2012)

Last time I did a 100% water change on my 55gallon, I killed the tank. Matching the water perms from the tap is pretty damn hard. I used to breed bettas and honestly as I said, I would not recommend 100%. 80% fine, 90% still okay. 100% you've killed any bacteria that may have naturally settled into the gravel or live plant (if you have one). 

Doing a 100% water change is like starting a new tank and dropping the fish in prior to a cycle. Cruelty is what it is. But we all have our own opinions.


----------



## housebatbetta (Sep 19, 2013)

hoody123 said:


> Clearly I'm a novice compared to many people here, but I can share my experience with the bettas that I have.
> 
> I've got a few different tanks with bettas in them. I have a Fluval Flora tank that has a male and 4 female bettas, it's planted quite heavily with peacock moss and coral moss (growing on a "tree"). The filter is turned as low as will go and they seem exceptionally happy in there. I have a second tank right beside that, it's a .... I don't remember which, a 5 gallon long shallow tank that is lightly planted, it has 2 females, a male and 20ish Crystal Red Shrimp (I realize we'll NEVER see babies in there), the flow is quite low in that tank as well, and again, they're very happy.
> 
> ...


I'm kind of shocked that your male and female bettas are cohabiting! I have oodles of questions but I'll keep it to these: Have you had any issues with fights or fin nipping? How long have you had them that way? Did you buy them together and/or are they related? How do you know they're happy?


----------

