# CRS dying! Please help!



## laurahmm (Apr 1, 2010)

Hi everyone, 

Was wondering if anyone could help me try to find out why my CRS are starting to die all of a sudden? I've had this tank up and running for around 1 year now. I do water changes with RO water and only top up. Everything has been fine for a whole year. No deaths whatsoever until 3 days ago. 

Specs: 6 gallon fluval edge, ADA soil with lots of plants and mosses. Pic attached below. 
Readings: Ammonia 0 ppm
PH 6.4
Nitrite 0 ppm
temp: 22 degrees

Only difference in the last 5 days is I have started adding products and added new food. 
Usual Foods: Shirakura shrimp ball food and Special shirakura and just normal flake food ( this has been done for a year no problems)

New foods: started feeding baby CRS feed because I saw 2 CRS babies  Got this food in a bottle from Frank in Vancouver

Skip a day and then Put in bioPlus Mosura the day after (alternating between 
the two and skip a day in between)

Starting feeding Borneo Wild shrimp spinach and Hikari shrimp 
cuisine

New Products: Put in Mosura Gravidas the first day
Put in Mosura bioplus on the fifth day 
Put in Mosura eros on the third day (says add 5 sprays for 50 litres and my tank is 25 litres so only added 2 sprays) I was skeptical about this product and didnt really see anything happen but members here tell me it works. 

The odd thing is and this may be coincidental but after I did the 2 sprays of eros in the morning, when I came home at night, that's when the deaths started to happen. I found 3 day adult CRS. Next day I found 2 dead CRS and now this morning I found 1 dead already. All of the deaths have been adults except for today, it looks like a juvie. I dont know if its coincidental or what I am doing wrong??? Should I do an immediate water change? But up until now all I did was top up and my readings for Ammonia and nitrite have been 0 and same readings today as well. Any advice would be greatly appreciated as I can literally not afford to have anymore die on me!

Thanks!


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## souldct (Nov 26, 2009)

small tank
lots of products
very stressed shrimps
many death
learnt that the hard way


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## laurahmm (Apr 1, 2010)

So should I do a water change you think? Or just leave tank alone as it is so not to stress them out further?


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## bettaforu (Sep 6, 2009)

Hi Laura, I agree about stop feeding...maybe just too much food they are not eating it all up right away, then more food and so on. Sometimes shrimps die from not being able to properly molt...that does happen, and sometimes its their age! 

Eros is a good product I can't see it having anything to do with that as that does help with the molts. I think maybe the food is culprit....unfortunately we all have a tendency to overfeed at times...myself included!


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## laurahmm (Apr 1, 2010)

If it's uneaten food, wouldnt my ammonia, nitrite levels go up?


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## novice (Mar 14, 2006)

again - maybe using to many products - try to stick with what already works, and avoid experimenting new stuff on established tank. - think a water change may shock them further unless u are going to use the partial water from an established tank mixed with RO - do you only use pure RO or a mix with stored tap water? sorry about the die off - and hope no more die offs have been noticed.


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## laurahmm (Apr 1, 2010)

I only use 100% RO water. Im wondering if I should do a very gradual 10% water change to remove any possible toxins? What do you think?


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## bettaforu (Sep 6, 2009)

OK just re-read what you said and as you have Zero ammonia/nitrate/nitrites then its not the water that is the problem, and your PH is fine for crystals...so has to be a combo of all the different food types and possibly the Eros...can't see that either, because I use Eros too, but then again when this type of thing happens we just don't know what is the culprit 

Im soooo sorry you are losing the shrimps, just stop doing anything to the tank for the next 24-48 hours and monitor it closely. At least if you don't feed for a few days, the shrimps will purge their systems!

More shrimp experts on here might be able to shed some more light than I can at this point...except pray it stops! Sending Good wishes your way!


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## CrystalMethShrimp (Apr 27, 2010)

Hey Laura I feel your pain because I have a fluval edge as well. I know your dosages are estimate (half/quarter) of the recommendations on the label. What killed your crs wasn't something just overnight. It was a build up over months because your only top off and as you know water, minerals, bacteria don't evaporate. 

I would stop all products and food then do a small water change in 3 days. 
After that a 15% water change every other week, not just a top off. Just bc we have 0 ppm of no3 doesn't mean your TSS is below 300. Best of luck.

From then on use only quarter of recommended dosage on the labels. The dosages are high on purpose so you'd use up the product faster and would have to order more.


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## camboy012406 (Jun 11, 2010)

I think your tank has no minerals coz you are using 100percent ro.


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## CrystalMethShrimp (Apr 27, 2010)

camboy012406 said:


> I think your tank has no minerals coz you are using 100percent ro.


Yeah, good observation. I thought she was adding shurakura mineral but I guess I misread.

Are you using any mineral laura? Mosura mineral plus/ shirakura/mineral stone/ montemorille clay?


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## laurahmm (Apr 1, 2010)

Hi I have a mineral stone in the tank already that I got from Frank (vancouver). Its been there since I set the tank up. I did add mosura bioplus and was planning on adding mosura mineralplus (that was going to be added but with all the deaths I've stopped dosing adding or feeding anything). I plan to add mineralplus after everything calms down. However I havent added any minerals since tank got started and my CRS have been berried and no deaths. I did do water changes up till around 4 months ago but read that some forum members here just top up and they have had great success so I decided to do that as well. It was fine until I've encountered all these deaths. 3 more have died. I dont know if maybe I somehow introduced something by accident? I'm very conversative in my dosing. There are all these mosura products. When are you suppose to add them in then? One product every week? The bottle says to do it every other day for bioplus I think for the crs babies. It doesnt say how often to do the gravidas but I was being very conservative as well. I dont know if I somehow introduced copper into my tank but I have no idea how that could have happened. Its so strange, I was so laid back about this tank.... even topping up with tap water, moving things around, redoing the tank, stirring up the substrate and no deaths. Only when I decided to be more careful etc. I start to get all these deaths. 

Laura


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## bettaforu (Sep 6, 2009)

Hi Laura, any more deaths today? Meant to ask how many CRS (without the juvies you just got) did you have in this tank? 

I only feed Bio Plus every other day, once a day in the am. I use the little spoon and put 1 spoonful in the tank and then leave off the next day feeding, then feed about half that spoonful of gravidas mixed with the tank water to spread it around more easily the 3rd day! Then another day off, then feed a very small piece of either Mosura special food or Shirakura, then another day off etc. I leave one whole day without food between each feedings, and only have the one feeding in the am.

I don't use any of the mineral or tonic supplements, I only use 1/4 tsp of Montmorillionite clay mixed with tap water for top ups usually once every 2 weeks. This adds all the minerals I need to my water, because I don't use RO water either.

So what did you add to the tank in the week that the deaths started, either in food or ? Did you change anything at all.


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## laurahmm (Apr 1, 2010)

two more dead =/ one was a berried ss+ CBS ...sighs... going to keep my fingers crossed hopefully this is the last few ones. I did a 10 % water change yesterday. If I see more dead after work, might do another 10 % today. I must have introduced some sort of toxin in my tank by accident. I'm following the guidelines for the mosura products and Im very conservative about dosing. Maybe I got a bad product by accident? I'm thinking I'm going to just throw out that Ero's bottle. They just started dropping like flies right after the Eros. Could be coincidence but prior to that they were happy, active, and eating.


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## bettaforu (Sep 6, 2009)

Awwhhh Laura I am sooo sorry for your loss! 

When you get whatever was going on in your tank stabilized, I have a few juvenile TTs I can give you to start you up again! Keep your chin up!


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## igor.kanshyn (Jan 14, 2010)

I'm sorry to hear about your losses.

I see that your current problem is lack of minerals.
If you are just adding water and it's RO water and you have plants that use that tiny amount of minerals you probable had, then this is almost no minerals in your tank currently.
In order to confirm that, try to test GH or TDS of your water. It should be low.

The direct cause of the death was Eros. It forced your shrimps to molt, but having no minerals for shrimps to grow new shells, they just end up dead.
Mosura Eros is a powerful 'tool', but aquarium and shrimps should be ready for it.

How to fix that. Your need to enrich water with minerals. Use Mosura Mineral Plus or Shirakura Minerals or some other product created for that purpose. Your GH should be 5-6d and TDS should be 150-200ppm.

Do not all lost of minerals at a time, do it slowly.
Change some water, it's like 5-10% daily during several days.

Regarding using all those products all together. If you were not adding to much stuff into a tank before, your filter can not be ready to a spike of new stuff. All that 'food' can rot and produce ammonia. This can be a possible problem as well. Be careful with all that new stuff.

If you are still baby food and other powders, feed less. If you case any uneaten food is a threat. In fact, you can not feed shrimps for 3-5 days. In a tank with live plants and Mosura baby food and and Gravidas, food should not be a problem.


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## laurahmm (Apr 1, 2010)

Hi Igor, 

Thanks for the advice. I will check my GH KH today and see what it reads. So you suggest doing another 10 % water change with RO water and adding the mosura mineral plus according to the instructions on the bottle? Thanks!

Laura


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## igor.kanshyn (Jan 14, 2010)

laurahmm said:


> Hi Igor,
> 
> Thanks for the advice. I will check my GH KH today and see what it reads. So you suggest doing another 10 % water change with RO water and adding the mosura mineral plus according to the instructions on the bottle? Thanks!
> 
> Laura


You are very welcome.
Yes, use RO water with minerals or tap water if you don't have minerals right now.

Instruction on Mosura Mineral Plus is very general. In fact, you just need to increase GH to 6d or TDS to 150-200 ppm
But do not add all required minerals at one time. Do that during several days by slowly increasing water hardness every day.


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## laurahmm (Apr 1, 2010)

I would like to thank everyone who gave me advice on what to do. My die off's seem to be over. I did lose quite a few but learned alot from the experience. I did the 10% water changes adding mosura mineral plus and of this morning no more dead CRS. I also have amazing news... I see baby CRS everywhere now. I posted a pic below  Thank you everyone. You can see 3 baby CRS walking around. I'll hold off on feeding them for a bit though. 


Laura


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## igor.kanshyn (Jan 14, 2010)

That's a great baby shrimp!


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## Kerohime (Jan 10, 2011)

My question is, do mineral rocks no suffice in the tank?

They are pretty expensive... and I think she had a few in her tank right?


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## novice (Mar 14, 2006)

Thats nice laura - the babies seem pretty big and looking good - stay with what works and im sure we will be seing more baby pics.


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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

Kerohime said:


> My question is, do mineral rocks no suffice in the tank?
> 
> They are pretty expensive... and I think she had a few in her tank right?


Hard question to answer. I find them very usefully when I first drop them in my tanks, but after the rocks becomes saturated, it's supposed to provide as needed but it's been sitting there for 1/2 year now .

*Never pay again for live sex! | Hot girls doing naughty stuff for free! | Chat for free!*


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## bettaforu (Sep 6, 2009)

I don't use mineral rocks in my CRS tanks at all, but I do dose some montorillionite clay when I do top ups, usually about 1/8 tsp to 2 gallon bucket. Shrimps eat it off the rocks and plants and all seem to like it, so this works for me.


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## novice (Mar 14, 2006)

bettaforu said:


> I don't use mineral rocks in my CRS tanks at all, but I do dose some montorillionite clay when I do top ups, usually about 1/8 tsp to 2 gallon bucket. Shrimps eat it off the rocks and plants and all seem to like it, so this works for me.


Me too : use montorillionite clay - a pinch every month.guessing it helps with the minerals needed.


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## laurahmm (Apr 1, 2010)

Where do you get that clay?


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## bettaforu (Sep 6, 2009)

I have some here I can give you Laura, next time I am in town. or mail you some! 
I got mine from Alberta, and its a very expensive type, not KOI clay like you get here. 

The type I have you can eat it yourself, bathe in it, put it on cuts, and feed it to dogs, cats, fish and crustaceans! It has soooo many beneficial uses, but the shrimps seem to like it a lot, so I just use a very little every time I top up.


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## BettaBeats (Jan 14, 2010)

you mention nitrite and ammonia, but you are not doing readings on nitrate?

Adding food will have spiked your nitrates possibly and the shrimps accustomed to their stable water are now stressed out.


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## igor.kanshyn (Jan 14, 2010)

Kerohime said:


> My question is, do mineral rocks no suffice in the tank?
> 
> They are pretty expensive... and I think she had a few in her tank right?


I have not had great results with them. It might just had wrong ones 

As I see mineral rocks are dissolving very slow and should be washed or scratched often.


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## mr_bako (Dec 23, 2010)

*help is on the way!*



camboy012406 said:


> I think your tank has no minerals coz you are using 100percent ro.


I would like to agree with CAMBOY. And
I would like to know what is your readings on Gh/KH?
those are very important elements to the game. Not just ammonia and nitrates/nitrites. And also how many shrimps you have in the 6 gallon tank?

I have tried dosing Gravidas 3X a week without any bad effects, but I've stopped cause i haven't noticed any good effects from overuse either, haha.
I only use gravidas after a water top up with 100% RO along with Rich water, BT9, BIOPLUS, and MINERAL PLUS all at the same time and have not seen any negative visible effect on my shrimp. And they are all hardly surviving and breeding rapidly. I have baby shrimplets everywhere I look in my tank now. As for EROS that shouldn't be the culprit also, I've used it once a day for 3 days in a ROW without any ill effects either.

Your temperature is fine, I have mine as low as 60F and as high as 74F. With no ill effects either way. Did you noticed any molts? Prior or After deaths?

I use both BorneoWild and Mosura products together everyday and I swear by them.

I also feed my shrimp everyday and I feed them BW spinach as staple, and I alternate or put in together, shrimpball food from shrimplab, red bee line from ADA, Borneowild barley, and grow also. But I take it all out after 3-5 hours depending if they are still feeding or not.

Sorry to hear your deaths, I feel your loss, as I have most likely wasted through 50+ CRS lives before I started to know what i was doing. lots of tutoring fees paid


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## laurahmm (Apr 1, 2010)

My GH was 5 and KH was 1 which is fine I've been told. But that could have been after I started adding mosura mineral plus. I do think it was a molting issue because if it was some sort of toxin, all my CRS would have died but it was only my adult CRS and they didnt all die at once. I have to admitt that prior to the deaths, I never actually saw any molting or any shells on the ground at all. But oddly enough, they did get berried. DO they all have to molt first before they can get berried? Anyways, the deaths seem to have stopped and I actually see molting shells now... I did have to do 10 % water changes daily for 4 days and added a mix of RO and cured tap water...


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## mr_bako (Dec 23, 2010)

*good to hear things are better now*



laurahmm said:


> My GH was 5 and KH was 1 which is fine I've been told. But that could have been after I started adding mosura mineral plus. I do think it was a molting issue because if it was some sort of toxin, all my CRS would have died but it was only my adult CRS and they didnt all die at once. I have to admitt that prior to the deaths, I never actually saw any molting or any shells on the ground at all. But oddly enough, they did get berried. DO they all have to molt first before they can get berried? Anyways, the deaths seem to have stopped and I actually see molting shells now... I did have to do 10 % water changes daily for 4 days and added a mix of RO and cured tap water...


gh at 4 would be best, minimal molting issues. I keep my Kh under 1.
I had that problem when i first started, all my adults would die. Do you have
any crypts or anubias plants in your tank?
I use 99% ro and 1% tap and additives.
And yes, the females have to molt before getting berried. That is what I have noticed.


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