# Small Tank and Extra-Large Bio-Media



## OneLastDecree (Nov 13, 2012)

So, I read somewhere a while back when I was doing my research. 
Just wanted to clarify and seek your input. 

As most of you already know, I have a 20 Gallon Long that is cycling with two HOB Power Filters. These filters each pump 100GPH, so that is a total of 200GPH. My water in the tank turns over 10 times an hour; according to the rough math I did. 

Now, the article I read stated that we can disregard the 'Inch-Per-Gallon' rule for stocking fish if we have alot more Media that will hold the beneficial bacteria. 

That being said, Each filter includes a bio-media sleeve that I currently fill with carbon and a sponge filter. So my tank has two bio-media sleeves and two sponge filters in the HOB Power Filter. 

Hypothetically, if I were to add another form of media in the tank to increase the area where beneficial bacteria to grow, I could stock more fish? 

If so, what other types or forms of media could I place in my tank to help hold more beneficial bacteria to increase the quantity of my livestock. 

Thank you, once again, for your time. 
All of you are really helpful and much appreciated.


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## CallMeKenny (Aug 26, 2010)

Just my opinion and some info I got from my research when I started but, having good filtration would allow you to add a few more fish. I would try not to over do it because they all need room to swim and I know I hate busy shopping malls so I can't imagine living in one . You should also consider if there is a power outage or your filters stop working for some reason, the larger bio-load will add up very quickly and could cause problems.

The messiness and size of the fish you plan to add factor in also.


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## pat3612 (Jan 29, 2008)

It really depends on what kind of fish you want to keep some otherwise community fish can get nasty if there is not enough space. You could add short plants or moss in the tank which will also help keep the tank clean What are you thinking of stocking


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## OneLastDecree (Nov 13, 2012)

Well, I heard that a 20 Gallon Long will hold 10 x Panda Corydoras. 
So, If I were to add two Apistogramma's, One Male and One Female. 

Would that suffice? 

Would I be pushing it with the setup I currently have?


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

more bio media means more fish, another thing that helps is plants.

Basically as long as the fish have enough room and your bio keeps up with ammonia and nitrites, then the only thing you have to worry about is nitrates, plants help alot with this.

Doubling the bio media probably doesnt double the fish though.

but yes more bio means more fish.

As long as you can keep up your levels of all 3 ammonia, nitrite and nitrate, it should be all good.

decorations, rocks, plants all add surface area to also hold bio.

Just put a couple fish in at a time slowly and watch your levels. And remember, alot of fish are not full size when you buy them. My bala sharks were about 2 inches when I got them and will grow to about 12 inches


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## OneLastDecree (Nov 13, 2012)

Thanks for the advice. 
So, I will try and research more items that will hold more Bio.


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

Just do it slow to be safe


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## Jaysan (Dec 19, 2011)

more fish = more water changes.


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

more plants and bio media can help reduce water changes, just have to find the right balance


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## BillD (Jun 5, 2006)

More bio media will not reduce water changes. The amount of nitrate in the tank is used as an indicator as to how much water should be changed, as a minimum. Changing more than the minimum is a good idea, as there are all sorts of compounds that build up over time, none of which are tested for. Bottom line is that the bioload determines the amount of water that needs to be changed and the frequency, not the filtration, assuming at least minimum filtration. If you have enough filtration and double it up you will still have to change the same amount of water at the same intervals.


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## baozi2089 (May 17, 2009)

BillD said:


> More bio media will not reduce water changes. The amount of nitrate in the tank is used as an indicator as to how much water should be changed, as a minimum. Changing more than the minimum is a good idea, as there are all sorts of compounds that build up over time, none of which are tested for. Bottom line is that the bioload determines the amount of water that needs to be changed and the frequency, not the filtration, assuming at least minimum filtration. If you have enough filtration and double it up you will still have to change the same amount of water at the same intervals.


100% agree! Filtration and water changes are independent. Having more filtration makes the conversion of ammonia (toxic) into nitrate faster, thus allowing you to put in more fish. However, the more fish you put in, the faster your nitrate will build up, you'll have to change the water more at once/more frequently.

You need to monitor your level of nitrate to determine how frequently to change water.
Nitrate level can be reduced by having lots of plants but depending on your bioload it may not be sufficient to negate water changes.
Some filter are made to have an extremely low flow (drips) to allow the growth of anaerobic bacteria that metabolizes nitrate, but I've no experience with those.

Cheers.


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## OneLastDecree (Nov 13, 2012)

Thank you for that. 
Helps me understand the process better.

Thank you to all.


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

If you want to max out your bio media, you may want to consider exchanging the carbon for more bio media, rather than waste the space on carbon. Carbon is not normally needed unless you are trying to remove something specific from the water. Typically that would be medication, possibly colour, as from leaching driftwood, or perhaps a nasty odour, from the water. Though if it smells bad, there must be a reason for the odour and I'd sure want to track the reason down before using something to get rid of it. 

Carbon used to be used in filters all the time but we've learned a lot more since then. Now many of us don't use it unless we have a specific reason to do so. Saves some money too. The fact that so many pre made filter inserts contain carbon does not mean it is necessary and the nice thing about most HOBs is that you can use whatever media you wish, without using the refills the manufacturer makes for the device.

Even when I got some small filters that came with sealed inserts containing carbon, I ripped off the cover on one side of the inserts, simply to remove the carbon and replaced it with something else. I've used ceramic media and also, frequently, just floss, which I can rinse and reuse many times before it has to be replaced completely.


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## OneLastDecree (Nov 13, 2012)

Just to clarify.
I have two HOB Power Filters.

Each filter has the following;

[1] x White Fluffy Mesh Bag with Carbon [The one every fitler comes with]
[1] x Black Sponge

So my alternatives are the following;

a. Rip out Carbon from bag and put another type of 'media' in it. 
b. Remove the bag entirely and put another black sponge in front of the existing one.

Am I missing anything else?

I am wondering; what else could I put in the bag to replace the carbon.

Oh; just had a thought. 
You know those Bio-Balls in the sumps people create. 
Could I just drop in some of those balls into my filter?
Would that help in increasing my bio-load because it will also grow on the black sponge, white mesh bag, and the balls I add in?


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## baozi2089 (May 17, 2009)

Carbon is chemical filtration it will remove chemical impurities in the water such as medication, chlorine, tannin from drift wood, etc. I don't have carbon in my tank and I suggest you take it out.

Sponge is a combination of mechanical and biological filtration. Mechanical media removes large particles from your water making it clear. Biological does the nitrogen cycle. The thing with sponge is they deteriorate relatively quickly and needs to be cleaned more frequently, and everytime you clean/replace the sponge you lose your healthy bacteria and decrease your bioload.

An alternative/more efficient form of biological media is ceramic media. They are porous and provides lots of surface area for bacteria to grow. They last a long time and requires minimal cleaning. I suggest getting the spherical ones instead of ceramic rings.

The bioballs you mentioned were designed to maximize interaction of two fluids. In the sump, one is air and one is water. It allows better gas exchange. I've heard that people use that for saltwater because oxygen saturation in salt water is lower. If bioballs were to be fully submersed, I don't think they will be as efficient as ceramic media.

So for your two filters I suggest, pull out and save the carbon for when you need it later. Put the sponge before the biological media, so it can filters out bigger particles before the water reaches your bio media. For biomedia, get the ceramic kind. Periodically, you can clean/replace the sponge. Your ceramic media will hold and be responsible for majority of your bioload so even if you rinse your sponge in tap water, it won't affect your bioload that much. Easy cleaning.

Cheers


OneLastDecree said:


> Just to clarify.
> I have two HOB Power Filters.
> 
> Each filter has the following;
> ...


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## OneLastDecree (Nov 13, 2012)

Wow; I learned so much from your post.

So; how my filter is setup, the water current hits the white mesh bag and then hits the black sponge before going out to the actual tank.

Therefore, I was wondering if I could just add the ceramic media balls in front of the black sponge as that would be my only option.

I am in the middle of googling the best ceramic media balls to purchase and from what company.

I found that Fluval makes these ceramic media; however, they only produce them in weird sizes.

I found the following links;

http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=4455081&f=PAD/psNotAvailInCA/No

http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2753122&f=PAD/psNotAvailInCA/No

I'm not sure if the first link is ceramic media; however, they do look like it. 
Description is very vague.

Would those work?
Just to drop them in my HOB Filter right out of the box.


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

I recommend aquaclear filters, they have 3 separate parts

first is just a sponge, this collects the matter, crud, waste, whatever is floating around.

second part is a bag of carbon, this is used to remove stuff you can't see, optional in many people's opinion

third part is bio media, little stone type things that hold the bacteria.

What some people do as mentioned by another person is use two bio media bags instead of one bio and one carbon.

I find the aquaclear filters are cheaper to use. Many people when they do a water change, put the sponge in the drain bucket and wring it out to clean off extra crud. If you take care of it, it can last months. Carbon is only good for one month once it gets wet. I personally leave carbon in for two months when I actually use it, it basically does nothing for the 2nd month from what ive been told, but in case it might do a tiny bit of good, I leave it for the 2nd month. Unless I want a 2nd bio media. Bio media is good for a few months. What I like to do is when I need to replace a bio media, I just put a new one in with the old one and take out the carbon and let it seed for a couple weeks. It is recommended that you buy a larger filter than what you need, but don't go too much over as too much power will just move around your substrate. I had one setup where if my water dropped a bit, the flow would move my sand around making things look funny. I have an aquaclear 50 on two different 25 gallon tanks, will have an aquaclear 70 on a 35 gallon soon, I have also had a aquaclear 110 on a 75 gallon, and I have an aquaclear 20 on a 5 gallon which I just started.

A good canister filter will let you put in alot of bio media and is a better filter overall than a HOB.

If you are new to the hobby, take it slow. Almost all of us end up killing alot of fish while we learn.

As others have said, more fish means more nitrates, which is left after all the bacteria do their work. Nitrates in high levels are bad, low levels are ok. There are basically two ways to remove nitrates that are commonly used. First one is water changes, which if the only method means alot of water changes in an over stocked tank. The other common way to remove nitrates is with plants. You may want to look into a c02 system for your plants so they can help reduce nitrates and water changes. To make good use of c02, plants need good light, something like dual t5ho should do the trick. Plants also need some fertilizer which you can add. Getting into the c02 is also getting more advanced and higher cost for setup. There are a few ways to get c02, one is using a liquid co2 like flourish excel. I don't really recommend excel for c02, some plants get damaged like vals, mine are taking forever to recover from excel dosing which I have had to do at times to conrol algae which is a whole new topic. The preferred methods are DIY c02 which I am currently doing, but this is only practical for tanks under 50 gallons and it is not consistant and is more work and in the long run it does cost more than the last method, which is compressed c02. There is a fine gentleman who has been building compressed c02 systems for people, he has a great thread on c02. There is a cost with compressed c02 at the start, but once you have the equipment, its very cheap, all you have to do is refill the c02 canister.

So, if you want to really overstock your tank, along with the extra bio media, if you want to reduce water changes, you would need a planted tank, lots of plants, compressed c02 system, good lighting. I recently had my nitrates go down to 0 in a couple tanks because of my c02, number of plants and lighting. I am doing DIY c02 so that means I have very little control over the amount of c02 that goes in which makes it very hard to balance things. I hope to get compressed soon when funds allow.

Another thing to note, some fish like some cichlids are notorious for tearing out plants which makes it basically not possible to do plants

Things like lava rock also help hold bacteria, any surface area added to the aquarium adds to your bio filter, plants, rocks, wood and so on.

My 90 gallon tank is going to be very over stocked once all fish are full grown and if I don't lose any and I just hope its not too much for my bio filter and plants to keep up with.

Also make sure you have a full master test kit so you can monitor all your levels of ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, ph. PH is usually not something I worry about, but I do check it now that I am doing c02 or if I put in rocks I wasnt sure about.

I spend hours a week researching things and just learning more and more. Im about to enter the world of cichlids and hopefully soon shrimp, but not in the same tank of course.

On yeah, to anwer your question about adding bio media to your existing filter, if there is room and they stay put then it should work fine. But I recommend an aquaclear filter or canister filter.

the first link of the bio media is a bag prepared for a canster filter or a HOB, probably a HOB, the 2nd is just bulk which is normally just put into a canister filter but you can buy bags you can refill. Basically bio media is just somethig with a large surface area. I am currently using dollar store plastic pot scrubbers for bio media in my canister filter. Just one of many tricks to cut down costs in this hobby that ive read about.


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## baozi2089 (May 17, 2009)

Glad I could help. The first link you have is ceramic media. I have that in some of my filters. The second link you have is not as effective as the first one in terms of bio filtration. Note it has this cylindrical shape and pointing in all directions. In my canister filter, it precedes my biological filter becasue it directs waterflow uniformly across my biomedia, giving better filtration. For your HOB, they are not necessary. I would say to put your sponge on top of your ceramic media, if possible so it can act as a pre filter for your ceramic media. It'll also make taking out the sponge easier everytime you clean it.

If your tank has cycle then there will be nitrifying bacteria on the sponge. As long as you keep the sponge in, it'll help seed for your ceramic media. Putting the ceramic media in just by itself means you'll have to cycle your tank all over again.

Cheers


OneLastDecree said:


> Wow; I learned so much from your post.
> 
> So; how my filter is setup, the water current hits the white mesh bag and then hits the black sponge before going out to the actual tank.
> 
> ...


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## OneLastDecree (Nov 13, 2012)

Thanks again for the advice, everyone. 
I will pick up the ceramic media for now. 
Thanks again.


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

You can also use filter floss. Basically just polyester stuffing like you get in winter coats, but no additives. I have Aqua Clear filters. Sponge on the bottom, bag 'o ceramic media next, last a handful or two, depends on how much room there is, of filter floss.

I squeeze out the sponge in tank water, rinse the bio media in tank water, squeeze out the floss as well. Once it starts to kind of break up into bits I replace it, but it lasts quite a long time. I also use broken up bits of lava rock instead of special ceramic media. Mainly cause I can't find the box of ceramic rings I have somewhere and I did have a bunch of little lava rocks I was not using for anything else.

Works great, cheap too.

Ceramic media come in various shapes and sizes. The main thing is that it offers a larger surface area for bacteria to colonize. So anything coarse and the right texture works. For small filters, smaller media fits better. For big ones, you can use larger pieces. But the main thing is a coarse texture or many holes, for bacteria to live in. Lava rock works because is is essentially like foam, full of tiny holes, perfect for bacteria to live in and a nice coarse texture to stick to as well.


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## OneLastDecree (Nov 13, 2012)

Well; I guess I have some thinking to do. 

I'm thinking of placing Ceramic Media, Sponge, and Peat Moss, into my filter.
I am in the midst of finding natural ways to reduce pH. 
So, I'm pretty sure other items will go in there.


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## OneLastDecree (Nov 13, 2012)

Oh, one more question.

If I put a sponge over my filter intakes, will that add as a biological filter as well? 
or just help as a mechanical filter by taking out the waste and gunk from the water column.


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

a sponge on the intake will do both, bio and mechanical. Its also great to do if you have fry in the tank so they dont get sucked up.

Putting a sponge on the intake would work on the same principle as a sponge filter.

But a sponge on your intake would slow down your overall flow more or less depending on the size. I wouldnt use it unless it was for fry in the tank myself.


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## BillD (Jun 5, 2006)

There are a few points worth further discussion here. Bio media comes in many forms, some of which have been mentioned. It is interesting to note that some aren't as effective per volume as others. The mentioned ceramic rings or noodles have a large surface area per volume, whereas bio balls don't. for that reason bio balls which works great in a large volume in a wet/dry filter are not desirable in the smaller enclosed space of a cannister or HOB. Plastic pot scrubbers are a better bio media than bio balls in terms of surface area to volume (probably cost too). They are also better than lava rock. So, we try to maximize the available space using efficient substrates for the bacteria to colonize. 
The use of carbon isn't necessary in filtration as evidenced by the thousands of tanks that don't use it, particularly those that rely solely on sponge filtration. Generally, the space carbon takes up in the filter can be better utilized.
You will often hear aquarists claim they have a filter that is solely for mechanical purpose, but, unless it is cleaned daily, the bacteria will colonize it and it will become biological as well.
As for AC filters, which I like, they are very versatile.The smaller ones from Mini to 70 all share the same motor. This means you can reduce the flow of a too large AC by putting the impeller from a smaller model. You will still have a very effective filter with the larger bio volume provided by the larger model. As well all models from Mini to 70 will take two sponges. prior to the renaming of the AC line of filters, the sponge was the only bio media in the filter. It's value is not to be underestimated. You can set up an AC with two sponges and the bio rings for a very effective filter with increased bio capability. Polyester batting , of the type used for quilts can be placed between the twp sponges as a fine filter, that is easily replaced as it will clog quickly. padding works better than batting, only because it comes in a sheet making it ideal to cur pieces the size of the sponges. The AC sponges will last many years, and are to be used until they start to actually deteriorate. They can be cleaned regularly and should be cleaned vigorously, not just "rinsed". They trap a lot of material and when it gets packed in there it requires some effort to get it out. Doing this will not remove the beneficial bacteria which is quite firmly glued to the sponge. Even if you were to remove half, it would be back in about 8 hours. Biological filtration occurs in aerobic conditions, so having decent flow of oxygenated water past the bacteria will allow them to function efficiently. If you allow the solids to build up, the amount of oxygen will be reduced, and the hetertrophic bacteria which consume the solids will be there competing with the nitrifying bacteria for available oxygen. So, keep solids out of the filters, so they can't break down to become nitrate. This is done by cleaning. Easy to do with an AC that doesn't even have to be turned off to be cleaned.
Lastly, cannister filters are often touted to have far superior filtration capabilities compared to a HOB. They do have the ability to store material out of sight, but if a cannister is rated for a 50 gallon tank, say, it isn't any better than a HOB rated for the same size tank. 
One other item that gets a lot yak time is flow rates. Somehow, sometime, someone decided that a minimum of 10X turnover was necessary for proper filtration. This is repeated so often, it has taken on a life of it's own, and is considered to be fact by many. The manufacturers didn't get the message, it would seem. Makes you wonder how they stay in business when they clearly don't know what they are doing. They should spend some time on forums and get educated. Of course, it is good for business to have forum experts recommend the use of two filters where one would do. Think about the thousands of sponge filters in use in heavily stocked tanks, especially grow out tanks, and consider the turnover rates of those air powered filters. Consider Hamburg style mattenfilters where the desired turnover is about 1.5 times per hour. 
Bottom line here is that all the numbers don't mean a lot if the filter is actually working. Knowing how your filtration works and how to optimize it will help you maintain decent water quality and keep costs down.


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

Well said Bill D. +1 and then some.


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## OneLastDecree (Nov 13, 2012)

Great information and thank you for it, BillD.

Now, I feel better that I have two filters in my tank. 
Alot of people were telling me it was a waste.


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

I've got three in one of my tanks.. two in all the others. Typically one sponge inside and an HOB. I don't think over filtering does any harm, though there are some fish species that don't appreciate much current in their environments, so you might have to modify that if there's too much. Otherwise, more is better, I think.. and if something happens to one, then you have a backup on the spot too.


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## OneLastDecree (Nov 13, 2012)

Same mentality I had when I was doing my research.


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