# How to treat possible ich whit BN plecos?



## Shattered (Feb 13, 2008)

Hello, 

First off a few pertinent details; 

Tank : 15 Gal, planted
Filter: 2x HOB
Habitants: 5 adult platie, 4-6 juvie platie and 2 bushynose plecos (Or so ba's claimed), 5-6 Ghost Shrimp. 

AM: 0ppm
Nitrate: 80ppm (will test again tonight)
Nitrite: 0ppm
PH: 7.6-7.8

Problem: One fish recently passed, he acted erratically for a while. During the morning when I turned on the lights he would either be swimming upside down, vertically or just drifting. Within a few minutes he would be fine and swimming with the others. This continued for a few days and then he passed. 

Now a second platie, seems to have what looks like small white patches, not lumps. More like her scales are falling off on both sides of her. These are two small patches, but on closer inspection it might be ich... 

Either way, if I have to treat the tank, what can I do about the BN's? As from what I read they are very sensitive to medication.


----------



## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Shattered said:


> Nitrate: 80ppm (will test again tonight)


Wow, get them down. Do multiple small water changes (so major fluctuations don't occur, stressing fish further). Do as many as you can tonight to get the nitrate down past 20 ppm.

Ich is usually pretty distinct. small white patches coming off seems more like a fungal infection. Either way, get those nitrates down, and it'll solve a lot of your problems.


----------



## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

Yes, I agree. 80 ppm Nitrate is way too high. Try doing weekly water changes. If you've been doing that, then you need to test the tap water as there may be something wrong with your tap.

*Never pay again for live sex! | Hot girls doing naughty stuff for free! | Chat for free!*


----------



## Shattered (Feb 13, 2008)

I know that it's extremely high, and it was a complete surprise to see that. In the last two days I've done a 30% water change in both the morning and the evening. 

I originally thought that the High Nitrate might have been a mistake on my part during the testing. But I tested again and still it's way too high. 

I'm not sure what could have caused such a spike, I've always had readings of either very very low or 0ppm. 

Any theories on why the sudden Nitrate spike? Could my filter have crashed? Is it because I added lots of plants in one shot? 

I added the pleco's a few months ago, and the plants about two weeks or so if I remember right.


----------



## Shattered (Feb 13, 2008)

Sorry for the double post, I will check my tap tonight again. I've also double dosed with Prime to try and help keeping things down.


----------



## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

Did you clean your filter recently? Keep in mind pleco's are fairly messy (at least in my experience).

Adding tons of plants will not cause a nitrate spike - rather the opposite.

Bring your nitrates down to 20ppm if you can.


----------



## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Shattered said:


> Any theories on why the sudden Nitrate spike? Could my filter have crashed? Is it because I added lots of plants in one shot?


Check for a missing occupant. Death usually is followed closely by an ammonia/nitrite/nitrate spike.


----------



## Shattered (Feb 13, 2008)

Just a quick update before I have to get to work; 

___________________________
Tap: 0-10ppm before conditioner, 0pmm after adding prime. 

Mercy's tank: (Problem tank) Is now down to 0-10ppm and I will do another water change tonight until this is sorted. 

Seth's tank: 0ppm

Shrimp Tank: 0ppm

______________________________

@ Ameek; I checked for missing occupants and from what I could see they are all present and accounted for. I will do a more thorough check tonight. It might be a ghost shrimp that passed away. 

@ Chris: I have not recently cleaned the filter. Does that mean that I would need to clean it, or leave it? My goal was to remove the biological filtering, as the tank was designed to be a Natural tank. 

I'm thinking I will leave the biological filtering installed until this is resolved and then it will be removed in favor of plant filtering. 

________________________________

As for the plec's, does that mean that I will have to follow them around with a scoop? Should I replace them with otto's? 

To tell the truth I really love the little guys, it's fun trying to find them in my small tank. There amazing at hidding.


----------



## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

Until your plants are basically overtaking your aquarium and especially in light of these nitrate problems, removing your biological/mechanical filtering is probably a very bad idea.

As for cleaning your filter - I was just curious, as sometimes people replace the sponges (or whatever) or rinse clean with tap water, which will often cause spikes as it kills or removes the bacteria.


----------



## Shattered (Feb 13, 2008)

I was thinking the same thing. In my other tank the change-over to all natural went great, but I'm still waiting for the other shoe to drop. 

I'm thinking of adding a second filter to the tank to increase the filtering, just to help keep things under control. 

I will rinse out the filter, in my tank water when it gets too filthy. Maybe the addition of the plecs clogged it up.


----------



## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

Not sure how you clean your filter, but never rinse your biofilter with untreated tap water. The best is to rinse with tank water that you siphon out for dumping.

Not sure how much plants you have in your tank, but your goal of a natural tank will never be achieved. Have you read up on Barbara Walche's book on how to setup a natural tank? You should if that's what you wanted.

For a starter, there way too much fish in that tank to make it a natural tank.

*Never pay again for live sex! | Hot girls doing naughty stuff for free! | Chat for free!*


----------



## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

Or Diana Walstad's "Ecology of a Planted Aquarium".

I've done the natural method before and can attest that it can be done, albeit here I am now overfiltering my tanks.

The idea, to me, of a "natural" aquarium is really impossible. You can't replicate a complete ecosystem in an aquarium - there just isn't enough room. To try and do it successfully, I would think one would need to create a fully planted tank, with 20g of water *per* fish. That would be closer to equating the bacteria levels vs fish bioload that natural eco-systems have, but still not even really close.

In fact, I've come to believe running canister filters is more "natural" than providing no filtration at all.


----------



## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

Lol, OK that should be Diana Walstad. Barbara Walsh was an actress ...

*Never pay again for live sex! | Hot girls doing naughty stuff for free! | Chat for free!*


----------



## Shattered (Feb 13, 2008)

@ Zebra: I clean my filters as you have stated, by rinsing them in tank water. I have not read Barbara's book, but I have read Dianne's book and all the other articles I could find before starting. 

To lay your mind at ease, I read about it for almost a year before even attempting it. I also talked with a member who has setup several tanks like this. He recommended the plants and amount, as well as provided them. 

I knew that I had too many fish, most of them already had a good home but the nitrate spike and possible ich, postponed there move. 


@Chris: I'm starting to understand what you are saying. Guess there is something to the whole "Earning experience" thing. My 29 Gal seems to being doing great but I'm still keeping an eye on it. 

I'm not trying to go full eco-system setup, as I agree that it's improbable. My goal in using a "Natural" system, is to get to a point where I can do one water change a month or two and still have a healthy tank. I'm not trying to breed fish, or grow plants for selling.

I'm keeping the mechanical filtering on all my tanks. My reasoning for planning to remove the biological filtering was because it robbed the plants of "food". I'm still trying to figure out the right proportions of fish to plants to light to nutrients. 

In the end I might just go back to weekly waterchanges and massive filters. Then finally to shutting down two of my three tanks...


----------



## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

On one of my 20g tanks that my apisto's live and breed in, I do one water change a month - around 20%. The water is beautifully healthy - the fish breed and thrive in there. I would say overfiltration (no such thing really) in conjunction with healthy plants does a lot in terms of making a tank maintenance free.


----------

