# Filter question



## kweenshaker (Mar 11, 2006)

Ok, so I think i'm going for a 50 gallon tank. Right now on my 33 I'm running an Aquaclear 30 and a sponge filter (one of the ones from BA's...claims it is for tanks up to 80 gallons, but I find that hard to believe)...is this sufficient for my new tank or would the AC30 be working too hard? The other option would be to buy a small rena or eheim canister, but I'd rather not spend more $$ if I don't have to..... advice pleeeease?

to note: i generally keep my tank _slightly_ overstocked. The end product will likely be:
2 angels
6 cardinals
6 rummynose
3+ corys (maybe some pygmies)
2 kribs (will probably keep a pair - the other 4 are going to a friend...I think....)


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

If you are overstocking, you should really spend the money on a good filter. Eheim 2215/2217 I would suggest (having not used any other canisters).

Check price network and craigslist and try to pick one up used if cash is a problem.


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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

Unless current is a problem. Overfiltation can only lead to good things like your fish breeding.
Your stock suggestion does not indicate that it will be over stocked. Tetra types like Cardinals and Rummy nose count as 1/2" each if you are going by the inch per gallon rule of thumb.
You can still run the same filter for the bigger one. But know this, you'll need to clean your filter more often than you would clean your smaller tank. The problem with most filters is that they tend to clog over time. This lead to the filter's inability to propertly filter your water hence disaster happens.
Good luck,

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## kweenshaker (Mar 11, 2006)

Zebrapl3co said:


> Tetra types like Cardinals and Rummy nose count as 1/2" each if you are going by the inch per gallon rule of thumb.


really? woohoo!! I've always counted them as 1.5-2". That makes me feel much better! 



Zebrapl3co said:


> But know this, you'll need to clean your filter more often than you would clean your smaller tank.


I change the water each week (about 25%) and every other water change I rinse the filter sponges in dirty aquarium water. Once a month I take apart the AC and clean the impeller with a q tip. Should I start doing it more often is this enough? (I know it's already more than recommended, but I tend to overfeed sometimes so that the kribs and cories get enough food (my angels are pretty agressive feeders, so not much gets to the bottom).


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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

Heh, you're doing a fantastic job there. In fact, that's a good model that all fish keepers should strive for.

One potential thing I see is over feeding. That is the root of alot of fish deaths and stuff. Even a bigger filter might not be able to handle the load. Do be careful. One thing you might want to try is to feed pellets and flakes. That way, the corries and cribs can have to the pellets and leave the flakes to the angle fish.

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## Pablo (Mar 27, 2006)

_Ok, so I think i'm going for a 50 gallon tank. Right now on my 33 I'm running an Aquaclear 30 and a sponge filter (one of the ones from BA's...claims it is for tanks up to 80 gallons, but I find that hard to believe)...is this sufficient for my new tank or would the AC30 be working too hard? The other option would be to buy a small rena or eheim canister, but I'd rather not spend more $$ if I don't have to..... advice pleeeease?_

In my opinion, that's barely sufficient filtration for a 20 gallon, so if you're shifting everything over to the 50, add something substantial, ideally a 2217-- use a double spray bar (buy an extra one and link em together) so the flow isnt too much for the angels


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## kweenshaker (Mar 11, 2006)

Pablo said:


> In my opinion, that's barely sufficient filtration for a 20 gallon, so if you're shifting everything over to the 50, add something substantial, ideally a 2217-- use a double spray bar (buy an extra one and link em together) so the flow isnt too much for the angels


How is that barely enough for a 20? AC30 is meant for _up to_ 30 gals and and the sponge is up to 80. other people have told me it's TOO much filtration. Are the filter companies lying that much?

That said, I'm going to a canister anyway...but was going to get a 2213....2217 claims to be up to 160 gallons...am I missing something here or can I not read?


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## Pablo (Mar 27, 2006)

kweenshaker said:


> How is that barely enough for a 20? AC30 is meant for _up to_ 30 gals and and the sponge is up to 80. other people have told me it's TOO much filtration. Are the filter companies lying that much?
> 
> That said, I'm going to a canister anyway...but was going to get a 2213....2217 claims to be up to 160 gallons...am I missing something here or can I not read?


Lying no exaggerating yes.

Too much filtration??? I dont know who said that...

The AC30 being for up to 30 gals is just absurd as that filter is marginally adequate for a five gallon tank by itself. Seriously.


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## kweenshaker (Mar 11, 2006)

Pablo said:


> Lying no exaggerating yes.


bastards!!



Pablo said:


> Too much filtration??? I dont know who said that...


some other people i know who have kept fish for yeeeears. Not that I took their advice seriously. The same people told me to do water changes MAX every other week or else I'll screw up the cycle...



Pablo said:


> The AC30 being for up to 30 gals is just absurd as that filter is marginally adequate for a five gallon tank by itself. Seriously.


Hmm. That's disappointing as ACs seem to be in high regard here and elsewhere. Ah well, I suppose I've learned my lesson. Thanks


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## gunnerx (Mar 20, 2008)

I think the main issue with the AC HOB filters is the amount of bio media it can hold. I have the AC 50 running on my 29g and after doing a bit of reading, the amount of biomedia it holds is definitely too little. I fixed it up by adding a Fluval 405 with a basket full of biomedia running along with the AC50.


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## Pablo (Mar 27, 2006)

kweenshaker said:


> bastards!!
> 
> some other people i know who have kept fish for yeeeears. Not that I took their advice seriously. The same people told me to do water changes MAX every other week or else I'll screw up the cycle...
> 
> Hmm. That's disappointing as ACs seem to be in high regard here and elsewhere. Ah well, I suppose I've learned my lesson. Thanks


Theres nothing WRONG with aquaclear.

You just have too small a filter.

The AC 70 and 110 are freakin great HOB filters.

Are they as good as a canister? Of course not.

Regardless you have insufficient filtration for your plans. Please buy 2217


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## kweenshaker (Mar 11, 2006)

Pablo said:


> Theres nothing WRONG with aquaclear.
> 
> You just have too small a filter.
> 
> ...


yessir, rightawaysir!! (well, maybe in a week or so....)


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## Pablo (Mar 27, 2006)

kweenshaker said:


> yessir, rightawaysir!! (well, maybe in a week or so....)


Call around to get a good price. Last time I checked Aquatic Designs in Stoufville cut the best deals but that was like 2 years ago so things may have changed.

Looks like its going for about $200 right now


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## kweenshaker (Mar 11, 2006)

Pablo said:


> Call around to get a good price. Last time I checked Aquatic Designs in Stoufville cut the best deals but that was like 2 years ago so things may have changed.
> 
> Looks like its going for about $200 right now


thanks 
might even look on pn for a decent used one....


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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

kweenshaker said:


> bastards!!
> 
> some other people i know who have kept fish for yeeeears. Not that I took their advice seriously. The same people told me to do water changes MAX every other week or else I'll screw up the cycle...
> 
> Hmm. That's disappointing as ACs seem to be in high regard here and elsewhere. Ah well, I suppose I've learned my lesson. Thanks


Now now, lets not shoot the manufacturer just yet. What AC provided is the average tank that aren't fully stocked. What Pablo wants is a filter that's good enough to take the bad, ugly and dump mistakes as well. So that when it happens, you (as in the fish) won't suffer for it.

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## gunnerx (Mar 20, 2008)

Pablo said:


> Call around to get a good price. Last time I checked Aquatic Designs in Stoufville cut the best deals but that was like 2 years ago so things may have changed.
> 
> Looks like its going for about $200 right now


Aquatic Designs moved. They're now in Markham near Denison and Woodbine. I actually met up with Jason on Saturday because his store is only open when I'm at work. Very nice guy and got me a deal on the T5 lights. A PM to AquaticDesigns on PN will definitely get a response.


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## kweenshaker (Mar 11, 2006)

what about the eheim pros/ wet/dry filters? I've seen a few around (used) that look to be in good condition for a pretty fair price...


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## KnaveTO (May 13, 2007)

Remeber when dealing with filters their gph flow rate always shows the best rate of flow. That is the pump pumping water through the system without any biomedia or the like. In otherwords an empty canister. You can safely bet that the flow rate will decrease by upwards of 20% when filled with all the sponges and stuff that needs to go in there.

as for filters I would recomend the Rena XP series. Simple, easy to use, easy to prime, overall a great filter IMHO


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## kweenshaker (Mar 11, 2006)

KnaveTO said:


> Remeber when dealing with filters their gph flow rate always shows the best rate of flow. That is the pump pumping water through the system without any biomedia or the like.


I actually just read evidence that said that's a common misconception. Hmm.



KnaveTO said:


> as for filters I would recomend the Rena XP series. Simple, easy to use, easy to prime, overall a great filter IMHO


I've heard good things about these too, but never used them. I'll have a look though! Thanks


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## Pablo (Mar 27, 2006)

KnaveTO said:


> Remeber when dealing with filters their gph flow rate always shows the best rate of flow. That is the pump pumping water through the system without any biomedia or the like. In otherwords an empty canister. You can safely bet that the flow rate will decrease by upwards of 20% when filled with all the sponges and stuff that needs to go in there.
> 
> as for filters I would recomend the Rena XP series. Simple, easy to use, easy to prime, overall a great filter IMHO


EHEIM gives its reduced flow rate as filled with suggested media. The Actual flow rate is not advertised for the canister filter, only the associated pump head which must be found seperately (the info I mean)


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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

KnaveTO said:


> ...as for filters I would recomend the Rena XP series. Simple, easy to use, easy to prime, overall a great filter IMHO


Yeah, I agree with you about the XPs. I am begining to like them more and more. I still favour a sump over a canister. But in terms of plastic container and maintenance all the way down to the hose, intake and outtake. XP is way better than Ehiem. However, if XP can make a pump like Ehiem and just as quite. They will own the canister market and charge more than an Ehiem and people will still come flooding in for more.

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## kweenshaker (Mar 11, 2006)

if i got the rena, what size should i go for? 

(the tank is a 46 gallon)


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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

Larra, if you're going for an XP. Then the XP2 is a good buy. XP3 is an overkill.
However, I failed to mention one obvious drawback to the line of XP. Actually it's not a drawback, but a lousy marketing sales misdirect from XP. They don't include any media save only a few spong. You'll have to dump more money to buy the media.
With the ehiem now-a-days, the media are usually included.

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## kweenshaker (Mar 11, 2006)

I'll take that into consideration.
I actually have some old (unused) biomedia that I could use if I were to get that brank (I'm assuming I don't have to buy their specific brand?)


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## Pablo (Mar 27, 2006)

Zebrapl3co said:


> Larra, if you're going for an XP. Then the XP2 is a good buy. XP3 is an overkill.
> However, I failed to mention one obvious drawback to the line of XP. Actually it's not a drawback, but a lousy marketing sales misdirect from XP. They don't include any media save only a few spong. You'll have to dump more money to buy the media.
> With the ehiem now-a-days, the media are usually included.


Medias always included with Eheim now. I think the XP2 is underkill capacity wise. Once media is added the XP flow rates drop through the floor. XP3 is similar in output and volume to a 2217, though not as nice in my opinion.

Both are a good choice.


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## kweenshaker (Mar 11, 2006)

Guess I'll have to see what gets me the better deal.
Thank goodness for credit cards!!


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## NuclearTech (Mar 23, 2008)

I am currently running a couple of AC's on my 33 gallon planted. From the start, I've had problems with a bit of cloudy water. I first thought it was due to a bacterial bloom, but I have since decided that it's actually caused by the substrate I'm using. I want to upgrade the filter to clear the water (it's not incredibly cloudy, just not crystal clear) so I've just started reading about canisters. I've only ever used Aqua Clear HOB's so this is a bit new to me. I was wondering what the difference was between a diatom filter and a canister filter? Is one better at clearing the water over the other?


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## dekstr (Oct 23, 2007)

Diatom and canister filters are similar in the principle that they force water through a unit to filter the water.

A diatom filter uses diatomaceous earth as the filter media. This material is extremely fine (can be up to 1 micron per particle), so it filters out literally all physical debris that passes through it, allowing only water to pass through.

It is so efficient that it clogs up easily (depending on how dirty your tank is). Otherwise doesn't offer too much biological filtration, and zero chemical filtration. It is designed as a secondary filter.

Here is a good reference: http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/management/Lawler_Diatomfilters.html

Canister filters are designed excellent filtration capacity with lots of control over the filter media you want to use. It requires less frequent cleaning because it has large filtration capacity. Pretty similar to an HOB in that regard. It is easy to keep hidden and generally very quiet. It is designed as a primary filter for long term use.


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## NuclearTech (Mar 23, 2008)

Thanks dekstr.

I have now learned the longest word in the English language:

'pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis'  

So does anyone actually use a diatom filter in conjunction with their canister filter? If so, do you notice a difference?


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## Pablo (Mar 27, 2006)

NuclearTech said:


> Thanks dekstr.
> 
> I have now learned the longest word in the English language:
> 
> ...


supercalafragalisticexpialodocious

MY GOD it IS longer!

Wow...


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## kweenshaker (Mar 11, 2006)

Just to update - I ended up getting a 2217 for FIFTY BUCKS. Got it from someone from craigslist who didn't know any better. It is in mint condition and came with unused media. I swear this thing fell off a truck. 

Anyway, I rinsed it out well and have it on my current tank to start the cycle...need to get the extra spray bar though. Should be getting the new tank tomorrow.


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## gunnerx (Mar 20, 2008)

WOW!! Great score!!!!


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## Pablo (Mar 27, 2006)

Wow thats rediculous cheap!!


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