# Plant food & a cycling tank



## Skeeter (Sep 9, 2009)

Hello  I have a 48 gallon aquarium that was set up about 10 days ago...it has had a small group of fish in it for 5 days now (9 small tiger barbs, 2 corys, 1 small clown loach). It also has some very healthy bacopa and hygro, which is growing (bacopa is flowering), and a bunch of vall (the jury is still out as to whether this is "taking" or not...but there are some flowers on it too). It is a "low light", "low tech" aquarium, from what I've read 

My question...should I be fertilizing the plants while the tank is cycling??? I have Flourish and Flourish Excel on hand but I don't want to use them if it will interfere with the tank cycling.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

I would worry more about your fish rather than the plants, at this current time.

Since your tank has not cycled yet, I would be wary of rising ammonia and/or nitrite levels. You should be carrying out daily water changes to ensure that ammonia and/or nitrite levels do not accumulate to toxic levels (and it does not take a lot!).

Cories and Clown Loaches prefer to be in larger schools. I would not recommend Clown Loaches for anything smaller than a 75, or preferably a 90g tank. They can grow quite large.

As you said your tank is a low light tank, you likely will not need to fertilize. As long as you keep up with your weekly water changes, there should be enough trace nutrients for your plants.


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## gucci17 (Oct 11, 2007)

As far as I know, the ferts shouldn't effect your cycle. 
IMO, you jumped the gun on adding the fish in so early but let's not worry about that since what's done, is done.
Let's focus on how to keep everyone alive.
Like Darkblade mentioned, watch your amonia/nitrite levels. 
Which is also why I would add the ferts so that your plants grow at a quicker rate to help bring those levels down.
I'd be more worried if you had added the fish into a newly setup tank without plants. Atleast you have a fighting chance on the fish surviving.


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## Hitch (Apr 26, 2009)

as darkblade pointed out. Adding ferts to a low tech/low light tank is pointless, you are just adding a checmical that is not used/needed and wasting money.

The plants will help out on your nitrate levels a bit, but they would be more than useless with ammonia (which is also toxic to the plants), and minimal use for removal of nitrites. But again, I wouldnt worry about the plants as much. 

As for the fish, get a test kit and test the water every day. If the ammonia/nitrite levels are higher than 0 and if nitrate is higher than 10-15, do a water change. Keep this up until the the levels stabolize. 

oh, and yes. get some more corys and find another home for the loach...a 48 gal is big enough for a school of corys...def not for a school of clowns.


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## gucci17 (Oct 11, 2007)

I cannot totally agree that a combination of Flourish and Flourish Excel is a complete waste on a low-tech setup. There are many reports of low-tech planted tank users who use those two in small amounts and have achieved very nice results. Without CO2 injection, how is excel not a good alternative in carbon supplementation? If Sketter already has the product on hand, why not put it to use? The only adverse effect I can imagine that would harm the tank and the occupants would be an overdose of excel. If anything, just use the excel and you can rely on the fish poop as a natural fertilizer.

I hope that didn't come off as hostile.


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## Hitch (Apr 26, 2009)

low tech, low light plants dont need fertilizers. So its still a waste, even if I have it on hand, I would rather save it when I have a nice planted tank to use it on. As darkblade pointed it out, low tech, low light plants will do fine without ferts. No it will not have any negative affects...but those will give so much better results on a planted tank with CO2 and good lighting.

but to answer the main question regarding these ferts. they would not have any adversed affects on cycling process. 

o, just remembered, in a lot of nutrient inbalance in tanks (ferts?), espetially cycling....wouldnt it lead to unwanted algea growth?


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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

I kind of agree and not agree. Flourish and Flourish Excel does do something. But at the same time, it's only good for 10G and below in a set up like that. Anywhere above 10G and you'll be wasting alot of fert to get the results that you wanted. There will be a lot of fert just floating around a 48G that are waiting to be used by algae. If you're going to go low tech, you might as well not add fert and let the fish do the fertilizing. You still have to do water change to add irons and the other chemicals that your fish won't make.
And I agree with everyone else. Shouldn't do a fish cycle. It's bad ethics.

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## gucci17 (Oct 11, 2007)

Hitch, I'll agree that it isn't a necessity on a low tech tank as I have went from High-tech to now a low-tech (which I don't dose at all) but it could still help with faster growth. Which in turn, help with the cycling process as a natural ammonia consumer. 

When I was High-Tech, the only time I tried Excel was for algae spot-treatment. So really, it was a waste for me because I had a bottle sitting there for over 2 years (which reminds me, it's still probably sitting somehwere on a shelf collecting dust). You don't need those things when you're running high tech. These products are designed more for retail consumers. 

Now if you want to talk about algae, that's a different story...

There are so many different variables that cause algae growth. We should leave that for another topic.


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

Skeeter said:


> and a bunch of vall (the jury is still out as to whether this is "taking" or not...but there are some flowers on it too).


In all my years, I have yet to see val flowers. Interesting - do you have a picture?


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## Skeeter (Sep 9, 2009)

Thanks for the replies!!! Things really have changed over the years!! The last time I had an aquarium set up (15+ years ago) cycling tanks with a few small fish was how it was done. I will take this advice on board for next time I have a tank to cycle though  

The fish are all active and healthy at this point (with exception to the skinny barbs that I posted about in another thread). I'll keep a close eye on them and will keep up with the water changes.

I'll pick up some more cories when the tank has cycled. I have no problem rehoming the loach if that is what is best for him  

Re the flowering vall...I purchased the vall, bacopa and hygro from Moore Water Gardens in Port Stanley. The bacopa and hygro are absolutely gorgeous, healthy and growing quickly!! The bacopa has some small purple flowers at the moment. The vall is a bit ratty at the top in places but looks healthy otherwise. The "flower" I see may or may not be a flower...but it's not a leaf either. At the base of some of the plants is a yellowish thingy. It's not a flower with petals at this point...more like a bud I would say. About an inch long on the one I can see clearly (I have a lot of rocks/roots in the tank and the vall is a background plant). I would have to pull it out in order to get a picture...and I'd prefer not to do that considering I just planted them last weekend and they were a bit of a pain in the butt to get in there  

Thanks again for the replies!


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## Mr Fishies (Sep 21, 2007)

Hitch said:


> The plants will help out on your nitrate levels a bit, but they would be more than useless with ammonia (which is also toxic to the plants)


I'm not arguing about taking care of fish in a cycling tank, test kits or water changes, but your statement that ammonia is toxic to plants is wrong. Unless you're talking dead fish, fetid water type conditions leading to the ammonia, in which case plants would be the least of his worries.

Plants take in ammonia in the water column more readily than nitrate. They actually have to expend energy on nitrate reduction in order to convert convert nitrates to ammonium during photosynthesis. Farmers often use ammonia based fertilizers for this reason. It's also the reason that many successful planted tanks have no bio-media in them, rather than bacteria performing nitrification, leaving the ammonia FOR the plants to consume long before it ever becomes nitr*tes.

That said, IME, tanks with lots of healthy, growing plants will tend to have fewer fish health issues. However, if this 48G tank has 2-3 stems of 2-3 kinds of plants, they will not likely have any large effect. More specific information on how many plants, how much available light is needed to accurately assess the situation. In the meantime, frequent smaller water changes are never a bad thing with a fresh tank.

Anyone who is really interested in keeping planted tanks, low tech or otherwise would benefit from reading a copy of Ecology of the Planted Aquarium by Diana Walstad. A thriller it's not...but then neither is watching plants grow!


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## Calmer (Mar 9, 2008)

Here is a sample of what is in Diana's book that shows the nitrogen relationship with plants and bacteria. 
http://www.aquabotanic.com/plants_and_biological_filtration.htm


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Skeeter, your "flowers" sound to me like runners - this is how the plant propagates itself.


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## Mr Fishies (Sep 21, 2007)

Calmer said:


> Here is a sample of what is in Diana's book that shows the nitrogen relationship with plants and bacteria.
> http://www.aquabotanic.com/plants_and_biological_filtration.htm


I knew I'd seen that page online before...I wasn't going to scan pages from the book and post it. You think music companies defend copyrights...try an angry scholar/aquatic gardener...I shudder just thinking about it.


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

How stupid of me, buying the book! Sigh!


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## Calmer (Mar 9, 2008)

Chris S said:


> How stupid of me, buying the book! Sigh!


Not really because the book has more information on other things. It is the best book to read if you want to understand aquatic plants.


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