# Fishless-Cycle // Nitrite won't leave me alone.



## OneLastDecree (Nov 13, 2012)

So, It has been a little bit past two weeks. 
My Nitrites have been through the roof so I did a 50% PWC.
That was about 48 hours ago. 
Upon PWC completion, I tested the water and still got a high reading and off the charts. 

Therefore, I completed a 100% PWC just now and tested my water. 
I still see crazy amounts of Nitrites. 
It does look lighter than before but I have no idea why my Nitrites are not leaving me alone. 

The only water that i did not change was the existing water in my filter when I powered them down. 
The only explanation I can think of is that little bit of water had such a high concentration of Nitrites that it is still effecting the overall 20G Tank. 

I just can't wait until my cycle is over.


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## CRJ (Sep 7, 2012)

ok well 100% WC restarts your cycle. leave the tank to run, dont change the water till you see nitrates going up quickly. 



test the water your adding.


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## tijuanatoad (May 17, 2010)

Read the fishless cycle sticky above.

"Ammonia turns into nitrites... When nitrites spike to levels that are too high, your cycle stalls... Therefore, adding too much ammonia can result in a stalled cycle. The levels I've recommended are reliable to use."

You need to decrease your ammonia dosing. Monitor ammonia and nitrites levels, and perform PWC until nitrites are in a decent level.


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## JulieFish (Apr 8, 2011)

try to be patient. follow the advise of CRJ and tijuanatoad. Nitrite usually takes a bit longer than ammonia to fall, but it will happen.


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## OneLastDecree (Nov 13, 2012)

CRJ said:


> ok well 100% WC restarts your cycle. leave the tank to run, dont change the water till you see nitrates going up quickly.
> 
> test the water your adding.


How would a 100% WC restart a cycle. 
The beneficial bacteria are usually rooted on physical surface areas; such as, substrate, wood, stone, filter, glass, and etc. 
The water, if anything, should only have a very minimal amount of beneficial bacteria. 
Just applying my own common sense; it would seem that the water contains the by-product of the beneficial bacteria, which will regenerate as long as the beneficial bacteria is present.

Just correct me if I am wrong, just going trying to put pieces of my research together in my head.


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## OneLastDecree (Nov 13, 2012)

tijuanatoad said:


> Read the fishless cycle sticky above.
> 
> "Ammonia turns into nitrites... When nitrites spike to levels that are too high, your cycle stalls... Therefore, adding too much ammonia can result in a stalled cycle. The levels I've recommended are reliable to use."
> 
> You need to decrease your ammonia dosing. Monitor ammonia and nitrites levels, and perform PWC until nitrites are in a decent level.


Yeah; I am following the sticky on this forum and another one. 
I am doing all that. 
It just confuses me, why I still have unreadable amounts of nitrites after a 100% water change.


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

1. Are you still adding ammonia to your tank?

2. Did you add any fish food, raw shrimp, or anything else that would decompose to your tank?

3. What kind of substrate are you using?

An 100% water change has the risk of restarting your cycle because it has the chance of dramatically changing your water chemistry in a short time. Bacteria are living organisms just like fish, and they too require a stable environment to thrive.


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## CRJ (Sep 7, 2012)

solarz said:


> 1. Are you still adding ammonia to your tank?
> 
> 2. Did you add any fish food, raw shrimp, or anything else that would decompose to your tank?
> 
> ...


bingo.

theres a reason you dont do 100% changes on ANY tank when its running.

can we get some readouts of what your getting for results? Saying they are super high is no help.


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

Maybe you can get some used bio media from someone? I am in Kingston if that helps.

You can cycle a tank in just days with used media

it sounds like you are using too much ammonia, and are you adding anything like stress zyme to help out?

also how long have you been at it?

your bio filter will self regulate for the fish load once you have fish in after it has a good base. If you are putting in too much ammonia, you will end up with a huge bacteria die off when you actually put fish in. You should be using the amount of ammonia that would be equivalent to the fish load you are planning. Once a good base of bacteria is established, it can quickly self adjust for the new load. If it didnt, every time someone changed filter media they would have to recycle all over again.


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## OneLastDecree (Nov 13, 2012)

Currently, my 20th day. 
Ammonia has been added until 2.00 PPM every day as it takes 24 hours for the Ammonia to be digested. 
Nitrate is higher than 5.00 on API Test Kit. 
Currently, Fishless Cycle with adding pure Ammonia. 

Readings are as follows; 
Ammonia is 0.25 PPM as of now.
Nitrite is higher than 5.00 PPM as of now. 
Nitrate is at 20.00 PPM as of now. 
PH is 7.5.
Temperature is at 30 Celcius.

I have been doing 75% water changes for the past 5 days. 

My Nitrites are still high and do not show signs of reducing. 
Even after the PWC's.


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

OneLastDecree said:


> Currently, my 20th day.
> *Ammonia has been added until 2.00 PPM every day as it takes 24 hours for the Ammonia to be digested. *
> Nitrate is higher than 5.00 on API Test Kit.
> Currently, Fishless Cycle with adding pure Ammonia.
> ...


There's your problem.


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## OneLastDecree (Nov 13, 2012)

So, don't add Ammonia into the tank?
I don't want to starve the bacteria.


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

OneLastDecree said:


> So, don't add Ammonia into the tank?
> I don't want to starve the bacteria.


You have both nitrite and nitrates in your tank. This means that both types of bacteria are there. However, because you're adding so much ammonia, you are producing more nitrites than the second type of bacteria can turn into nitrates.

I don't know if you are testing your levels before or after a water change, but 1ppm ammonia = 2.7ppm nitrites, so if you're adding 2ppm ammonia daily, that's already 5.4ppm extra nitrites a day, plus whatever you had left over.

So in short, stop adding ammonia and stop doing water changes. Wait a few days and test levels again.


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## OneLastDecree (Nov 13, 2012)

Alright; will be leaving the tank alone for 48 hours to see what happens. 
Thanks.


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

so any updates?


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## OneLastDecree (Nov 13, 2012)

Well; ever since the last post, I let the tank for 48 hours. 
Then I did water changes of 75% every 48 hours.
Tested Nitrites every 24 hours. 
Never added Ammonia to the tank during this time. 

For some reason, the Nitrite levels keep on dropping after the water change. I know this because I test for Nitrites before and after water change. 
However, the Nitrites spike up again after 24 hours of my water change. 

For example, last night; I did a 75% water change and dropped my Nitrite count to 0.25 PPM. I just tested it again today and the Nitrite shot to 2.00 PPM without any Ammonia added. That is how the Chloramine is removed. 

I'm so confused. 

I add water conditioner, are the beneficial bacteria eating the by-products of the water conditioner; which leads to Nitrite count going through the roof?
I am aware the water conditioner does not remove Chloramine; however, seperates the chloramine molecules to ammonia. 

All in all, I am confused.


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

OneLastDecree said:


> Well; ever since the last post, I let the tank for 48 hours.
> Then I did water changes of 75% every 48 hours.
> Tested Nitrites every 24 hours.
> Never added Ammonia to the tank during this time.
> ...


Okay, you have no fish, shrimp or snails in the tank yet, right?

What kind of substrate do you have?

Did you put anything that can decompose into the tank?

Are you adding anything aside from the dechlor to your tank?


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## OneLastDecree (Nov 13, 2012)

solarz said:


> Okay, you have no fish, shrimp or snails in the tank yet, right?
> 
> What kind of substrate do you have?
> 
> ...


There is currently nothing in the tank.

Just silica sand as substrate. 
Completely empty and clean.


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## OneLastDecree (Nov 13, 2012)

Just took a picture of the tank with the light on.

I actually leave the lights off all day and put a towel over the whole tank to minimize ambient light getting in to reduce the change algae or bacterial bloom will start.


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## OneLastDecree (Nov 13, 2012)

You live at Yonge and Finch!
I do too.
Maybe you can be my fish consultant. 
Haha.


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## Kajendra (Dec 12, 2010)

You have a nice looking tank 
Where did you get that silica sand? Looks good 

Did you get used sand or clean the sand properly?
Maybe it has something in it :S

Your situation seems very confusing :/

Try to record the values of you ammonia, nitrites and nitrates.
So you can take the test and see how it is changing and post them up here so we can see as well 

If your no longer adding Ammonia, what is your current Ammonia level?
Take some measurements so we can develop a pattern


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## OneLastDecree (Nov 13, 2012)

Kajendra said:


> You have a nice looking tank
> Where did you get that silica sand? Looks good
> 
> Did you get used sand or clean the sand properly?
> ...


Thank you!
I got it from my contractor friend.
It is really fine and no black particles!
Its great.

The sand has nothing else in it according to the MSDS.
It is brand new sand. 
Just rinsed very well before adding to tank.

I have posted my fish log that is current as of now. 
The " - " mean the test was not made. 
All values are before the water change.


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## OneLastDecree (Nov 13, 2012)

Cropped the picture so it will be larger than before.


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

OneLastDecree said:


> You live at Yonge and Finch!
> I do too.
> Maybe you can be my fish consultant.
> Haha.


You should have said so earlier! I can just give you some used media and save you from all this hassle!


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## OneLastDecree (Nov 13, 2012)

PM Sent. 
You're the best!
Haha.


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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

Wow, you're still going at it?
You're doing way too much water change. Just keep in mind that Chloarmine means there's ammonia in the water. They are not going to magically disappear when you de-chloramine the water. It's still in there, just in a locked form so it won't harm the fish. But to the bacteria, it's still food, they will break it down and convert it to nitrite. So your problem right now is an over abundance of type 1 bacteria.
Think of your tank as having only a limited amount of spots for the three types of bacteria to grow. You'll want a balance tank where there is enough of type 1, 2 and 3 bacteria in there to keep the cycle going to replenish some of the water for your fish. If you keep feeding too much ammonia, you'll have a broken system where there is an over abundance of type 1 bacteria and not enough of type 2 and 3 to keep up with the output of type 1. Added to this problem is that type 2 and 3 bacteria are slower to grow.
So your problem is that you're doing way too much things. That results in tipping your tank off balance all the time. (Ever play any driving video game where you're bouncing left and right instead of going on a straight line?)
So my advice is, slow down. Take it easy and let the tank fix itself. For starter, stop adding ammonia and secondly stop doing water changes for 1 week. 
Don't worry about the type 1 bacteria dying off. You'll actually want this to happen as you want to have room for the type 2 and type 3 to grow. Also, the type 1 isn't going to just all die off. Some will die, while others simply stop dividing. The dead ones will float around for a while, decompose in a few days to a week. Once they decompose, they release ammonia, hence feeding the ones that survived. So it will take a while for them to whine down.

Now for the disclaimer: there are a lot more than just the 3 types of bacteria in your tank. There are probably hunderds of other ones that we don't really care right now. (As long as you stay away from using decomposing fish food, as they are bad bacteria that will haunt you later on when you add fish.)

Anyway, if you can get a bio-boost from some one, that will work much better. But you will still need to stop changing water though and let the tank fix itself.

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## OneLastDecree (Nov 13, 2012)

Thanks again for the replies. 
I just picked up some power media; about to add it to the tank now. 
Thanks again, Solarz.
Will keep this updated throughout the week.


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## OneLastDecree (Nov 13, 2012)

As mentioned earlier; I added seeded material in last night. 
Checked the Nitrite level in the tanks 12 hours afterwards and the Nitrites dropped to 0.10 PPM. 

Probably in between 0 PPM and 0.25 PPM on the API Kit. 

Should I add Ammonia again?


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

if your ammonia is 0 and nitrites are basically 0, go a head and add a few fish today if you want. Once you add fish, stop adding ammonia, continue to monitor ammonia and nitrites closely for a few days. After you see everything being perfect for a few days, you are in the clear and just have to do normal regular testing.

Enjoy your fish


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## OneLastDecree (Nov 13, 2012)

Yup; going to make sure my cycle is complete 100% so I don't get any spikes in the future. 

Pretty excited. 

Can't wait to get GBR x EBR Rams and Apistos.


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## Fishyfishyfishy (Mar 3, 2008)

I gave you a bunch of old filter media. With that, you just push pour that into your filter. Then you can add your fish right away. There might be a mini cycle, but it's not a problem. Do not do any water changes at all for a while.

And you gotta be patient. Use some snails to produce ammonia if you dont want to use fish.


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## OneLastDecree (Nov 13, 2012)

Yeah; tried that in one of my tanks and it didn't show any changes.
Which was really weird. 

However, I wanted to let everyone know my tank is cycled. 
My tanks currently break down 4 PPM of ammonia within 24 hours.
It is 0 PPM ammonia, 0 PPM nitrite, 10 PPM nitrates.
After a 24 hour water test. 

Now; I am just feeding my tanks 4 PPM of ammonia daily until my shipment of Apisto's and Rams get in from Peru. 

Thanks to all!


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

about time, damn that was a hard cycle


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## OneLastDecree (Nov 13, 2012)

It was , indeed.


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