# Overflowing gurgling!!



## Geo11 (Mar 30, 2010)

So, I've got a 210 gallon AGA aquarium with dual overflows. I've just set up a basement sump, and its gurgling really bad. Prior to this I had a sump under the tank, and it didnt gurgle at all.

This is the AGA with dual durso standpipes that have a little nipple on top for air. I'm running a Panworld 200ps pump. I've tried dialing back the pump to no avail and I've tried running it with the ball valves completely open. Its exactly the same result. It seems like its burping and gurgling. Ive been doing tons of research and cant figure it out. I've seen people restrict the drains, but don't want to do that due to clogging.

why would it gurgle now and not before? it already has a hole at the top for air flow. In the basement I've got the returns coming above the water line of the sump and its all hard piping. 

Any ideas?


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## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

AGA 210gal are 1" drains and it will require more air to minimize the gurgling/flush noise due to the difference in "drop height" from under the aquarium to a basement sump. 

Drill out the holes on top of the dursos larger to accommodate a larger diameter tubing to feed air into the durso drain.

HTH


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## Geo11 (Mar 30, 2010)

How big do I have to drill the holes? I've drilled out that top nipple already to 1/4 inch...it didnt help...I drilled another 1/4 hole next to it, and it helped slightly...do I have to put tubing into the durso?


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## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

Inserting a piece of tubing will help muffle the noise of air feeding the durso. Adding a second hole will help some but I find that using a single, larger tubing (larger inside diameter) works better than a series of smaller 1/4"OD tubing. Also, with that volume of air going in, going with a larger tubing size you experience less clogging from salt/dust as well as the whistling sound.

The largest I have used thus far is 1/4"ID for ~1500gph on a 1.5" drain. It's a tinkering thing 

HTH


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## Geo11 (Mar 30, 2010)

So how far down do I have to put the tubing? Do I need to have a valve or anything on the tube to control airflow?


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## Chromey (Sep 25, 2010)

Ive had to Put a Tube 10" into the first elbow, This broke the siphon sound.

At this point Youll have to try a few things, Untill you find something that works for overflow.


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## UnderTheSea (Jun 2, 2008)

Try using this mod I use on my installs and my own systems. You can use larger valves if need be and adjust air flow as necessary.










HTH's
Chris


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## UnderTheSea (Jun 2, 2008)

Here it is actually connected.


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## Chromey (Sep 25, 2010)

That method Would make Fine tuning very easy.


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## J_T (Mar 25, 2011)

That is pretty sexy.

I use Herbie method though, and well, noise isn't an issue. When there is noise, I know something isn't right! 

One line is a siphon, and the second is just a trickle of water. Only time the second drain makes noise, is when there is too much water. Thus something blocking my main line. The second line is the same size as the main, thus capable of running the system without flooding. 

A third drain makes this system bullet proof, unless you're the worlds most unlucky person.


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## Geo11 (Mar 30, 2010)

So after a conversation with Wilson, I took his and everyone's advice and drilled out the nipples...now the gurgling is gone. 

But another problem still exists. The tank is in my living room, and the drains are pretty loud. I'm assuming that its the water that's being pumped up and the water rushing to the basement. 

Is there anything I can do about this?!?!


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## J_T (Mar 25, 2011)

Geo11 said:


> So after a conversation with Wilson, I took his and everyone's advice and drilled out the nipples...now the gurgling is gone.
> 
> But another problem still exists. The tank is in my living room, and the drains are pretty loud. I'm assuming that its the water that's being pumped up and the water rushing to the basement.
> 
> Is there anything I can do about this?!?!


Look up "herbie drain"

Runs with a siphon.

The noise is air in your lines. With a siphon, there is no air, and it is dead silent.


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## Geo11 (Mar 30, 2010)

I'd like to get my current set up as quiet as possible, since I've already hard plumbed everything. So changing to herbie would be a worst case scenerio

Is it possible to do a herbie drain with my setup?


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## J_T (Mar 25, 2011)

Yeah, you can.

I would be able to say more if I had a picture of what your working with. My guess is two drain holes in the bottom of the tank with bulkheads.

If so,
You need only to pull one of the drain lines from the bulkhead (shut off your return pump before doing this) Trim it an inch or so. Plug the air hole you drilled in the 90* elbow. Put it back together. Add a valve to the bottom of the lower drain line. Open it fully. Turn on your return pump. Once the siphon kicks in (this will take a moment, and might be good to have a spoter to make sure you don't overflow the tank) it will make a loud "suck" and drain the overflow. You will want to slowly close the valve until you get a nice siphon, that doesn't drain all the water. You want some to go down the other drain. The other drain is now the "emergency" drain.

How it works.
A siphon can pull more water than gravity. So, by using one drain line as a siphon, you can almost do the work of two (guessing numbers here, I could be over/under) This one line now has no air in it, thus no noise. (look up "herbie method" on youtube some good videos to show how quiet this is) 

God forbid something happens (curious snail + siphon line = blockage at the valve) normally you now have a sump worth of water on the floor, dead/blown heaters, and over heated/seized return pumps. Because the other drain is open at the top (think I forgot to mention that up there ^ ) once the water covers the surface of the drain, it will start a siphon. Sucking all the water down fast (and making a flushing sound) until there isn't any left. Then the tank will fill again, and it will flush again... when you get home, your going to yell OMG (and other such profanities) but when you get to your tank the floor will be dry! Just need to shut down the pump, open the drain line, find out what stopped it!

Advice from experience!
Tweaking that line to be just right is a pain! Put two valves in!!!! One to leave fully open, and one to be used for adjustments! Label them!!! 

If you need to close the line for whatever reason (testing the emergency line?) use the second valve! this way you don't need to readjust the "main" one.

Spend the extra $$ for a gate valve to be the adjusting valve. It is worth it! adjustments are easier.


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## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

+1 that the sound is the water and air from the drain pipes.

The issue is that presently there are 2x1" bulkheads in each O/F where one is the drain and the other return (from sump). In order to do the Herbie sytle overflow properly, you must have both as drains in the overflow. If the aquarium is tight against the wall, redoing the return plumbing is going to be quite an undertaking essentially:

- draining and moving the system
- plumb new return lines taking into consideration accessibility to complete
- move system back and complete returns lines and end fitings

On the aquarium side:
- reconnect the two drains and "old returns" that will become the drains

Sumpside:
- replumb "old return" lines to drains and divert to entry point of sump
- gate valves on all 4 drain lines @ sump as JT mentioned

All this assuming that all goes smoothly. Depending on the accssibility, area to work with...it might require all new plumbing to make to job go smoothly and less mentally taxing to envision the pipe rerouting as well as adding another 2x1" lines for the return.

It's going to be an all day endeavour .

I have suggested to him on the phone to first try acousic foam around the pipes and barring that, acoustic foam in the entire cabinet cavity. Damn those 1" bulkheads


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## Geo11 (Mar 30, 2010)

So I spoke with Wilson bright and early this morning. The sound is definitely the air rushing down with the water. I ended up using sound deadening material all over the lines and it reduced the sound, however, its till pretty loud.

Since the tank is in the living room, I'd like it to be as quiet as possible.

The overflows look like this, except I have two of those (one on each side of the tank):

http://www.aquariumcenter.biz/store/product/306408/210-Gallon-Black-Reef-Ready-Aquarium/

I really don't want to redo the plumbing. I just spent a pretty big chunk of change doing it, and the tank is too close to the wall to run new lines up for returns.

Basically I have my two drain lines going into the sump...then then pump going back up to the returns.

Would it be possible for me to just use one drain in one overflow for the siphon and the other drain in the other overflow for the emergency drain? and just leave everything else the way it is?

Where's the best place to get a gate valve?


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## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

I forgot to ask what return pump you are using


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## Geo11 (Mar 30, 2010)

Panworld 200PS 

I've got ball valves on each of the returns as well.


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## J_T (Mar 25, 2011)

Geo11 said:


> I really don't want to redo the plumbing. I just spent a pretty big chunk of change doing it, and the tank is too close to the wall to run new lines up for returns.
> 
> Basically I have my two drain lines going into the sump...then then pump going back up to the returns.
> 
> ...


Yes! however.... you need to be able to get the water volume of two overflows through one. Can be done by enlarging the holes (remove every second "bar") The other over flow needs to be "higher" so, blocking the bottom of the holes (expoxy weldon 40 would do the trick) to slow down the water entering that one.

Your still in for a days work. And some heavy DIY

I think your better off trying to "tune" what you have.


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## Geo11 (Mar 30, 2010)

there's no way im tearing down the tank again. I just got through it. 

I was able to reduce the sound by dialing it back some more and also pushing the drains further down so there's not so much of a rushing sound. 

I dont know if im just being picky at this point about the noise, but obviously I'd like it to be as quiet as possible. 

Any other ideas to do the herbie method or quiet it down further?


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## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

Yeah...dialing back the pump will help with the overall water flow down the drain pipes and in turn, reducing the noise. Calculating that you will be getting at most 1350gph to the aquairum, you are getting just under 6.5x turnover rate. I hope that you are bleeding off the excess flow via T and valve fitting at the pump return instead of restriction. The added back pressure makes the pump work a bit harder, make more noise, use more power, etc.

At this point, the only areas you can modify to help with the drain flow is to change the 90* fittings to either 2x45's or a 90* radius elbow. The more gradual the turn, the less back pressure (per se) that creates that "water plug" that causes the siphon action on the drop as well as "sloshing" in the pipes.


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## Geo11 (Mar 30, 2010)

OK, so I've basically tried everything that everyone has suggested in order to quiet this down. But its still not as quiet as I want. So here's where I need help.

I'm gonna do the Herbie method. I've checked the tank and I do have enough space to add returns behind and over into the tank. 

Since I've got dual overflows. Is it possible to use one return the way I am now, and just make one drain the siphon, the other drain the emergency, and make the other return an extra emergency drain as well?

Or is it better to make each overflow a siphon and emergency drain and run returns up and over the tank. 

Which do I use for the siphon and which to use for the drain, taking into consideration each over flow has 3/4 for the return and 1" for the drain. 

Thanks!!


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## Geo11 (Mar 30, 2010)

Just an update...I solved the problem. Hopefully this will help others. 

There was just way too much water trying to drain too fast. I didn't want to restrict the drains in case something clogs and it floods. 

I dialed the pump to about 700-800gph and the noise noises all basically stopped. Now there is just the trickle of water down the overflows which is much more bearable. 

If there's a solution for this, I'd love to hear it.


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## J_T (Mar 25, 2011)

Geo11 said:


> Just an update...I solved the problem. Hopefully this will help others.
> 
> There was just way too much water trying to drain too fast. I didn't want to restrict the drains in case something clogs and it floods.
> 
> ...


I am wondering actually if there wasn't enough water draining? With the pump down stairs "experimenting" is pretty hard. But maybe a second person with cell phones? Run it up to the max the drain can handle.

To answer your "herbie" question. Yes, I think that the two original returns could be used as siphon lines, and original drains could be your "emergency lines.

Easy to "test" grab two couplings to fit the now drains (to lift them higher than the current drains) Stick a couple 90's together for the current returns (to make a U ) and there you go. One more line (cheap clear hose) to hook on the return pump. And run them up to the tank. A few 90's and you have something that will hook over the edge of the tank, and your ready to test it.

I think it would work. Before you go any farther into this hobby, I would look at making yourself happy. There is nothing worse than regrets later! The only thing worse is "fixing" it after the tank has matured. You run the risk of killing live stock, and mature corals etc.


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