# A bit of an algae problem....



## mitko1994 (Dec 12, 2012)

Hi all,

I have a bit of a problem with BBA and GSA. My tank is a 90g (~20" tall) bowfront that has plants but is not heavily planted.(see list of plants below) I have 3 -50W led flood lights hanging 13-14" above the surface. They were scheduled as follows: 4 hours on - 4-hours off- 3 hours on; I changed that to 4 hours on - 6-hours off - 1hour on a week ago. I also bought a power head to help with the flow around the tank.

Plants:
vals, sags, crypts, java fern, hygrophila and anubias,frogbit.

I mostly notice the BBA on the sag, anubias and on the hygro. The green spot algae is on the glass.

I used to dose the tank with dry ferts(PPS) every day (1ml/10g) but I noticed that I was getting a fair amount of GSA on the glass. 
Nowadays I still get it but not as much but every time I do a wc I still need to use my glass scrubber to remove the green spots.

At the time when I was dosing, plants were growing better but my nitrates would be very high and so I stopped after I lost a couple of fish to dropsy. 
The weird part is that when I was dosing I had the frogbit cover almost half the tank and after I stopped it started to die off and 5 months later I'm down to ~15 plants. This makes me think that the nitrates are not that high in the water after all (although the API test shows 40ppm everytime I do it including yesterday) since frogbit feeds off the water column and is known to soak up nitrates. I haven't done maintenance on my canister in 6 months or so so that may be another reason. I cleaned the filter and added a fresh pack of purigen.

here are some pics of the BBA and the tank:



http://imgur.com/pWySZ


I don't know how to handle my algae problem. I'm just doing things that I think may help but I don't know if they actually do. Any proposed action plan would be appreciated.

Thanks
Mitko

EDIT: I also read that SAE help with BBA. The thing I'm worried about is that they will stop eating algae when they start finding food on the bottom.


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## Puissance (Dec 17, 2015)

I'm pretty new to the hobby, but I've read that CO2 should help, so the plants can absorb the excess nutrients. If you don't have a CO2 system, maybe try dosing Flourish Excel? People have reported that it can take care of algae problems. It may be toxic to vals though, so maybe dose in smaller quantities to start and ramp up to recommended dosage?

Anyone else with experience with using Excel to combat algae?


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## mitko1994 (Dec 12, 2012)

I don't have CO2 and Excel is out of my price range for the tank my size, especially when it's something I have to do everyday. I'm willing to try metricide 14 as an alternative to Excel but I'm reluctant to do so as I read it also tends to melt plants like vals.


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## Puissance (Dec 17, 2015)

Just curious, has the 6 hour siesta (lights off) helped? Maybe as a last resort, try DIY CO2? Or maybe a blackout? I'm not sure how damaging a blackout would be to your plants though...


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## mitko1994 (Dec 12, 2012)

It's hard to tell if it has. I've only had this schedule for a week. I think new growth seems to be clear of it but that may be because the algae has not grown on the new leaves just yet. The thing is that I don't have a wild outbreak where the whole tank is hairy like chewbacca but I have enough to make my plants looks dirty and ugly. DIY CO2 is not consistent and hard to maintain for a 90g tank. The blackout would be pretty bad I think. I will see how this week goes with the same lighting schedule, a clean filter and a fresh pack of purigen.


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

You can get rid of BBA with some SAE. The only cure for GSA, IME, is manual scrubbing. Do it frequently or the algae will harden and become a lot harder to remove. Nerite snails will help, but you will still need to scrub.

I would stop dosing ferts. If you're not running CO2, you really shouldn't be adding ferts to the tank. Frogbit can die off for a variety of reasons, so don't use that as an indication of nitrates. Most likely your nitrates really are that high.

Also, why do you have an on-off-on light schedule? I would think that would disrupt plants' natural circadian cycle and help algae.


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## mitko1994 (Dec 12, 2012)

solarz said:


> why do you have an on-off-on light schedule? I would think that would disrupt plants' natural circadian cycle and help algae.


I do on-off-on lighting because I don't dose CO2. When the lights are off it allows the CO2 in the water to replenish. As far as I know when the CO2 is depleted by the plants they stop photosynthesis regardless of the fact that there is more light and nutrients to be consumed. I think when the CO2 is depleted and the light is on is when the algae takes over because there's nothing to compete with it and it just feasts and grows. Regarding the SAEs, do you know if they will stop eating algae at some point or will they always go after it? I usually drop algae pellets for my loaches, pleco and rafael catfish when the lights go out and I think the SAEs might just eat those instead and ignore the BBA.


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

mitko1994 said:


> I do on-off-on lighting because I don't dose CO2. When the lights are off it allows the CO2 in the water to replenish. As far as I know when the CO2 is depleted by the plants they stop photosynthesis regardless of the fact that there is more light and nutrients to be consumed. I think when the CO2 is depleted and the light is on is when the algae takes over because there's nothing to compete with it and it just feasts and grows. Regarding the SAEs, do you know if they will stop eating algae at some point or will they always go after it? I usually drop algae pellets for my loaches, pleco and rafael catfish when the lights go out and I think the SAEs might just eat those instead and ignore the BBA.


Honestly and IMHO, I would be more concerned about disrupting the plants' circadian rhythm than CO2 depletion. You can have perfectly balanced planted tanks without CO2 injection. I'm not sure how powerful your lights are, but I would consider the possibility that they may be too strong.

CO2 is always nice, but it's only *necessary* if you have high light. The plants you have do perfectly fine on medium light, ie no CO2 injection necessary. The crypts and anubias especially.

As for the SAE, make sure you get true SAE and not flying foxes or chinese algae eater, and cut back on the feeding.


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## mitko1994 (Dec 12, 2012)

I don't think the lighting too strong. As as I said before I have 3 - 50W -6700k flood lights 30+" above the surface, if it was my new lighting schedule would help. However there's also the possibility that the algae will be gone but my plants will light deprived. I am definitely not overfeeding my fish. They finish everything before it even manages to sink to the bottom. I might go to BAs and pick up SAEs sometime this week as they have them on sale. The thing that I'm worried about is that they will get used to eating food eventually and stop eating the algae.


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

mitko1994 said:


> I don't think the lighting too strong. As as I said before I have 3 - 50W -6700k flood lights 30+" above the surface, if it was my new lighting schedule would help. However there's also the possibility that the algae will be gone but my plants will light deprived. I am definitely not overfeeding my fish. They finish everything before it even manages to sink to the bottom. I might go to BAs and pick up SAEs sometime this week as they have them on sale. The thing that I'm worried about is that they will get used to eating food eventually and stop eating the algae.


Ok, let's look at it from another perspective. How well are your plants growing? Crypts and anubias are slow growers, but vals should spread quickly given the right conditions. Same for dwarf sags if there's sufficient light.

So are your plants growing well, or do you find that they're stagnating and slowly overtaken by algae?


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## mitko1994 (Dec 12, 2012)

the vals are growing at an ok rate. I have to trim them every couple of weeks otherwise their leaves start to lay across the surface and block the light. The sag however is not growing that fast and has a fair bit of algae as seen in the pics I posted.


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

mitko1994 said:


> the vals are growing at an ok rate. I have to trim them every couple of weeks otherwise their leaves start to lay across the surface and block the light. The sag however is not growing that fast and has a fair bit of algae as seen in the pics I posted.


Cool, from that description, I would say you might have low light, and thus nutrients might be the source of your algae problems.

Like I said, first stop dosing ferts and monitor nitrates.

If nitrates are still over 20ppm, consider doing bigger and/or more frequent water changes.


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## mitko1994 (Dec 12, 2012)

I stopped dosing ferts 5 months ago but I've always had problems with nitrates. I've tried all kinds of different media but nothing seems to bring them down. I'm trying purigen for the first time and I hope it helps because I think I've tried all there is to try to control nitrates. I think my wc schedule as I do 40% at most every 2 weeks.


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## mitko1994 (Dec 12, 2012)

Oh 1 more thing I forgot to add was that a bit a of a film is forming on the surface. I do have surface agitation from the filter return.


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

mitko1994 said:


> I stopped dosing ferts 5 months ago but I've always had problems with nitrates. I've tried all kinds of different media but nothing seems to bring them down. I'm trying purigen for the first time and I hope it helps because I think I've tried all there is to try to control nitrates. I think my wc schedule as I do 40% at most every 2 weeks.


Media won't make any difference in nitrates.

You have high nitrates because you have a high bioload. If you want to reduce it, you need to do bigger and more frequent water changes. Try 30% every week.

This alone won't necessarily help with your algae problems, as there are other factors at play, but it will certainly improve your fishes' health.

In the long run, you will need to increase your plant mass in order to support your bioload. You will need fast growing plants as well. Java fern, anubia and crypts are not well suited to this task.


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## mitko1994 (Dec 12, 2012)

What plants should I get then.


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

mitko1994 said:


> What plants should I get then.


I would say get your algae problem under control first, as otherwise any plant you get will just get smothered. More water change and add some SAE to see if they help with your BBA.

Once your algae is under control, you might want to upgrade your light, as plants will not be effective nutrient uptakers under low light conditions. Aim for medium light, which would be 2x54W T5HO. I hear that the new LEDs are pretty good too, but I don't know much about them.

Once you have medium light, then you can plant fast growing stem plants to help with nitrate export.


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## mitko1994 (Dec 12, 2012)

How many SAE should I get for a 90g? The fish stores sell are small but I know SAE can get up to 5" or so. I don't plan to upgrade my lighting as this was an upgrade from a 48-60" current USA satellite++. I would rate my current lighting setup as moderate-medium which I guess is enough for most easy plants anyways. I don't mind plants growing a bit slower as long as they look nice and the tank is free of algae.


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

mitko1994 said:


> How many SAE should I get for a 90g? The fish stores sell are small but I know SAE can get up to 5" or so. I don't plan to upgrade my lighting as this was an upgrade from a 48-60" current USA satellite++. I would rate my current lighting setup as moderate-medium which I guess is enough for most easy plants anyways. I don't mind plants growing a bit slower as long as they look nice and the tank is free of algae.


I would say 3 or 4.

Make sure you increase your water changes as 40ppm nitrates is too high. In a planted tank, nitrates should be under 20ppm.


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## mitko1994 (Dec 12, 2012)

I don't know if my nitrates are actually 40 ppm. It may be that my API test kit is no good now. I've had it for 4 years and I've heard people say that after about a year or so they go bad.


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## mitko1994 (Dec 12, 2012)

I picked up 4 SAEs from BAs. Typical BAs style though - they are very small
(~0.5"). I hope they get on with eating the BBA.


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## Puissance (Dec 17, 2015)

I've read that the young SAE's like their algae more than the bigger ones. Hope it works out for you!


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## mitko1994 (Dec 12, 2012)

I hope so too. The green spot algae is also starting to annoy me. I guess it's because I'm not dosing ferts and I'm lacking phosphates. The thing is that I have the PPS dry ferts from the Plant Guy and those have all sorts of things not just phosphate so I would rather not dose those until my nitrates drop ( if they ever do :S ). I looked up a few youtube vids and people seem to have pretty good results with dosing just potassium phosphate to eliminate GSP. Has anyone here tried it? Is it harmful if overdosed?


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## mitko1994 (Dec 12, 2012)

Update:
1. SAEs seem to be doing a good job at cleaning the BBA
2. Nitrates still at 40 ppm after 1 week of Purigen


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

mitko1994 said:


> Update:
> 1. SAEs seem to be doing a good job at cleaning the BBA
> 2. Nitrates still at 40 ppm after 1 week of Purigen


Good to hear the SAE is working for you. I highly recommend doing more water changes to lower your nitrates.


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## mitko1994 (Dec 12, 2012)

It's funny that you say that because when I went to BAs and talked to one of the managers about my BBA problem and told him I'm doing a wc every 10 days or so he said that that's pretty good. I guess it will be easier to get more plants. That way I can dose ferts which have potassium phosphate and gradually kill the GSA as well.What plants would you suggest? I heard wisteria and water sprite are fairly good at soaking nitrates.


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## Professor Monkey (Jan 8, 2015)

Purigen doesn't directly remove nitrate molecules - it binds the larger organic molecules which contain nitrogen and prevents them from being converted into nitrate. It's a preventative measure. Water changes are still the fastest way to get rid of nitrates.

Hygrophila polysperma grows like a weed in my tanks. Narrow leaf chain swords can also multiply rapidly if there are sufficient nutrients in the substrate.

Using your powerhead, airline tubing, and a bottle of DIY CO2 you can significantly increase the growth rate of your plants. It's truly astounding how much an aquatic system is limited by CO2. When naturally dissolved CO2 is depleted (typically after around 4 hours in a medium light tank) the plants are forced to use carbonates instead - most plants can't efficiently utilize this source of carbon and this is when algae has the chance to take hold. Although this method of injecting CO2 isn't very efficient, in my experience, a few extra ppm of CO2 makes an unbelievable difference.


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## mitko1994 (Dec 12, 2012)

@Adam

DIY is inconsistent though. I'm scared of gassing my fish because I don't how to tell how much I'm adding and when I need to prep a new batch. From what I've read DIY CO2 is suggested for small tanks only as it gets just as expensive as having a pressurized CO2 system for tanks my size. I do have a type of hygro (has small narrow leaves) but it doesn't grow very fast. Its stems are also very thin and fragile so whenever I try to plant the trimmings they almost instantly break and I end up just throwing them out. The leaves themselves seem healthy though so I guess its just the way the plant is. I do not have a lot of nutrient hogging plants and I guess that is the main reason why I have an excess of nutrients. I really need more plants. I plan to take out the rock on the right side of the tank near the hygro and plant other plants. I'm thinking of getting water sprite as it doesn't require much and it can be floated and planted.


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

mitko1994 said:


> @Adam
> 
> DIY is inconsistent though. I'm scared of gassing my fish because I don't how to tell how much I'm adding and when I need to prep a new batch. From what I've read DIY CO2 is suggested for small tanks only as it gets just as expensive as having a pressurized CO2 system for tanks my size. I do have a type of hygro (has small narrow leaves) but it doesn't grow very fast. Its stems are also very thin and fragile so whenever I try to plant the trimmings they almost instantly break and I end up just throwing them out. The leaves themselves seem healthy though so I guess its just the way the plant is. I do not have a lot of nutrient hogging plants and I guess that is the main reason why I have an excess of nutrients. I really need more plants. I plan to take out the rock on the right side of the tank near the hygro and plant other plants. I'm thinking of getting water sprite as it doesn't require much and it can be floated and planted.


The fact that your dwarf sags aren't growing much is a good indication that your light level is on the low side.

I've grown dwarf sags without CO2 under moderate light, and it spreads very quickly once established. I've also tried to grow it under low light, and the tank had the exact same symptoms as what you're describing: BBA, dwarf sags not growing.

I've had experience with both low light and moderate light tanks, with DIY CO2 and no CO2 at all. I've had a low light tank where vals took over half the tank, and I still had over 40ppm nitrates. When I upgraded my light, nitrate levels dropped to 20ppm, so it makes a huge difference.

The take away is that light level regulates plant growth speed, which in turn regulates your nitrate levels. Having more plant mass alone is not enough.

The reason I recommend more water changes is that 40ppm nitrates is not good for fish health. If you think your test kit has gone bad, you should get a new one and make sure you know the correct level.


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## mitko1994 (Dec 12, 2012)

Man.. you are killing me here. I upgraded my lights last spring. I went from a Current USA Satellite+ 48-60" (30W) fixture to 3-50W LED fixtures. I can't believe 150W of LED is low light. Maybe I planted the sag in the wrong place. Maybe the vals are casting a bit of a shade on them. From what I read on forums before I got my led fixtures, LED lights are stronger than t5s so I should be getting a good amount of PAR. It could be that a lot of the light is being dispersed since these are wide angle floodlights and the tank is not evenly lit. On the other hand, how do val leaves grow a few inches every week?! I trim them every other week. I have inert gravel and the last time I put a fert tab for them was 7-8 moths ago. As far nitrates go, I know 40 ppm is dangerous for my fish and that's why I want to lower it. The thing is that a lot of the time I don't have the chance to do weekly changes and my parents always complain about me wasting water because they don't understand the importance of wc but that's a different story. I think wc is temporary solution to nitrates anyway. I see ppl on youtube that do wc once every 3-4 weeks and they have no problems. I guess it's all a balance of fish load and plant mass. I have a pretty big fish load but my plants are nowhere near as much as they should be (I guess). That's why I want to add more plants. Worst case scenario the newly added plants will die.


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

mitko1994 said:


> Man.. you are killing me here. I upgraded my lights last spring. I went from a Current USA Satellite+ 48-60" (30W) fixture to 3-50W LED fixtures. I can't believe 150W of LED is low light. Maybe I planted the sag in the wrong place. Maybe the vals are casting a bit of a shade on them. From what I read on forums before I got my led fixtures, LED lights are stronger than t5s so I should be getting a good amount of PAR. It could be that a lot of the light is being dispersed since these are wide angle floodlights and the tank is not evenly lit. On the other hand, how do val leaves grow a few inches every week?! I trim them every other week. I have inert gravel and the last time I put a fert tab for them was 7-8 moths ago. As far nitrates go, I know 40 ppm is dangerous for my fish and that's why I want to lower it. The thing is that a lot of the time I don't have the chance to do weekly changes and my parents always complain about me wasting water because they don't understand the importance of wc but that's a different story. I think wc is temporary solution to nitrates anyway. I see ppl on youtube that do wc once every 3-4 weeks and they have no problems. I guess it's all a balance of fish load and plant mass. I have a pretty big fish load but my plants are nowhere near as much as they should be (I guess). That's why I want to add more plants. Worst case scenario the newly added plants will die.


Look, it's your tank and you can do whatever you want, I'm just trying to give you some information based on personal experience.

Like I said, i don't know what your lights are like so I'm just going by your description of plant growth. Maybe they're just too high above the tank, you can tinker with them as you see fit.

However, you do seem to have some misconceptions. First, vals are a low light plant. They will grow well under even low light conditions. I've grown them under a T8 stock bulb and they took over half the tank from 2 plantlets.

Second, I'm one of those people on youtube that barely do any WC. You can see an old setup of mine here:






Those are vals in the background and dwarf sags in the foreground.

The reason I could get away with barely any WC is because I had nitrates under 10ppm, when I bothered to check them. The key conditions to low maintenance tanks are well growing plants and a low bioload, neither of which fit your tank right now.

I'm sure you can get your plants growing well and your nitrates under control over time, but in the best of cases that's a process of weeks, if not months. Yes, water changes are a temporary solution, and I personally favor a philosophy of working toward as little WC as possible, but until you actually reach the stability of a low maintenance tank, they're still the best way to provide good water conditions.

In the end, it's your tank and we're only here to give some advice, you can follow them or not, as you see fit. We've all learned through trial and error, and god knows how often I've tried out my own ideas just to see what happens. That's part of the appeals about this hobby, but I find that it really helps my experimentations when I understand the principles behind many of the "good practice" suggestions.


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## mitko1994 (Dec 12, 2012)

I didn't mean to sound rude or anything. I'm just confused. I understand trial and error is the best way but I don't know where to start really. I read things I try them out and if they don't work within 2 weeks or so I tend to lose interest in them or I try different things in the meantime and by the time I see a change I don't know what caused it.I guess results from changes to the tank take time show and I'm not patient enough.One thing I forgot to mention is that new growth on all my plants looks to be BBA free (knock on wood).That's 2 weeks after I reduced my light period by 2 hours. 

The way the lights are currently setup it's impossible for me to move them. if I move them closer to the surface I will not be able to reach into the tank during maintenance. I guess I will have to think of a DIY canopy that opens up.Do you think the canopy will help with channeling the dispersed light towards the tank or would it just block it? 

Based on your vid, it looks to me as though my tank is better lit than yours so it can't be the light. Maybe it's the gravel or something, but then again the vals are deep feeders and are going well. Things like this drive me crazy. I don't know what think.

The problem I see with most of my plants is that they are slow growers by nature. That's why i would like to add something like water sprite that grows fast(hopefully it does in my tank as well ) and soaks up nitrates If my nitrates are high and I do weekly wc should I start dosing dry ferts again to provide more nutrients for my plants because I know nitrates alone are not sufficient for happy and healthy plants

Your suggestions are really helpful but I'm stubborn and it may sound like I'm getting mad at you but I really am not!


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

mitko1994 said:


> I didn't mean to sound rude or anything. I'm just confused. I understand trial and error is the best way but I don't know where to start really. I read things I try them out and if they don't work within 2 weeks or so I tend to lose interest in them or I try different things in the meantime and by the time I see a change I don't know what caused it.I guess results from changes to the tank take time show and I'm not patient enough.One thing I forgot to mention is that new growth on all my plants looks to be BBA free (knock on wood).That's 2 weeks after I reduced my light period by 2 hours.
> 
> The way the lights are currently setup it's impossible for me to move them. if I move them closer to the surface I will not be able to reach into the tank during maintenance. I guess I will have to think of a DIY canopy that opens up.Do you think the canopy will help with channeling the dispersed light towards the tank or would it just block it?
> 
> ...


Yup, it's really helpful when experimenting to know what principles you're experimenting on, otherwise you're just groping in the dark.

For example, right now I have a tank in my mom's home that I see only once a week. It's using a PC fixture with a 3-year-old bulb, so I know the light is crap. The big hygro corymbosa I added a month ago is shedding its leaves while the jungle vals, added around the same time, are taking over the surface. It's pretty much what I was expecting, but I wanted to try out the corymbosa anyway.

One thing that's been bugging me is that you say you're "trimming" your vals. Do you mean you're cutting off their leaves? What species are they? Are they sending out runners?


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## mitko1994 (Dec 12, 2012)

When I say "trim", I mean cut the leaf at some point much like a barber would cut your hair. I'm not sure what you mean by a runner, but if you are referring to a new plant that pops up from the substrate a few inches from the main plant then yea I get those occasionally but not very often. I also get new leaves on the main plant. These are the vals I have : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vallisneria#/media/File:Vallisneria1a.jpg


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

mitko1994 said:


> When I say "trim", I mean cut the leaf at some point much like a barber would cut your hair. I'm not sure what you mean by a runner, but if you are referring to a new plant that pops up from the substrate a few inches from the main plant then yea I get those occasionally but not very often. I also get new leaves on the main plant. These are the vals I have : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vallisneria#/media/File:Vallisneria1a.jpg


Okay, understood. Normally vals should be pretty prolific in sending out runners. I've always had to regularly pull out new plantlets lest they overrun the tank. I wonder if trimming their leaves makes them put more energy into regrowing leaves and not have enough for runners.


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## mitko1994 (Dec 12, 2012)

After you told me I might have low light last night, I looked into ways of calculating my PAR. I found a calculator that uses LM/Watt but I guess that's not very accurate since lumens measure how we see light and not how plants perceive it. Anyway, here's what I got with an estimate of my tank size.The depth is where the lights are w.r.t to the bottom, the tank is ~20" deep. Also, the width is an average estimate since I have a bowfront.



http://imgur.com/XFE89


The first pic is my current setup and the second is if I lower the lights in a canopy. If this is somewhat accurate then I was right about having moderate-medium light.

Here are my light fixutre params(I have the coolwhite):


http://imgur.com/9urN1VW


Forgot to add that I was told that the beam angle on these is 180 deg. The seller told me that after I bought them, but I never asked beforehand because I thought all floodlights are 120 deg. Anyways from what I read, the larger the spread, the less light reaching the substrate thus less PAR. That may be my problem.


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

mitko1994 said:


> After you told me I might have low light last night, I looked into ways of calculating my PAR. I found a calculator that uses LM/Watt but I guess that's not very accurate since lumens measure how we see light and not how plants perceive it. Anyway, here's what I got with an estimate of my tank size.The depth is where the lights are w.r.t to the bottom, the tank is ~20" deep. Also, the width is an average estimate since I have a bowfront.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's fine, if changing lights is not an option, then you can try a variety of low light and medium light plants and see which ones do well.

Here are some suggestions:

- mosses
- hygro polysperma
- hygro difformis
- hemianthus micranthemoides
- staurogyne repens
- another vallisneria species (you seem to have jungle vals in there)


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## mitko1994 (Dec 12, 2012)

Mosses are too big of a mess and they are slow growers. I thing I have hygro polysperma but I'm not sure. I might try water wisteria but I kinda prefer water sprite over it. Are you sure baby tears will do well in a low tech tank with? I've never heard of staurogyne repens but it looks nice. I might give it a try because my foreground is poor anyways. I hope I can find these soon from people on the forum


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

mitko1994 said:


> Mosses are too big of a mess and they are slow growers. I thing I have hygro polysperma but I'm not sure. I might try water wisteria but I kinda prefer water sprite over it. Are you sure baby tears will do well in a low tech tank with? I've never heard of staurogyne repens but it looks nice. I might give it a try because my foreground is poor anyways. I hope I can find these soon from people on the forum


Check out this picture:

http://gtaaquaria.com/forum/showpost.php?p=581393&postcount=20

That was under a 2x18W T5HO. They grew even wilder later on, literally filling up the entire tank. You're not going to get carpeting unless you have pretty high light, but they can still look really nice as a mid to background plant.

Feel free to check out that thread, I ran all sorts of different stuff on that tank just to see what works.


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## mitko1994 (Dec 12, 2012)

Thanks, the thread is really interesting. I'm assuming it's the s-repens that is in the left corner at the back. What looks really interesting is how your crypt is so big and doing well when the area around it seems to be almost completely dark. Btw do you have any of the plants from that thread for sale? I'm interested in the water wisteria and the s.repens.


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

mitko1994 said:


> Thanks, the thread is really interesting. I'm assuming it's the s-repens that is in the left corner at the back. What looks really interesting is how your crypt is so big and doing well when the area around it seems to be almost completely dark. Btw do you have any of the plants from that thread for sale? I'm interested in the water wisteria and the s.repens.


The crypt _was_ big because it was moved from the 79-gallon. Alas, it's quite reduced nowadays.

I haven't updated that thread in ages, the tank is quite different now. I don't have any s. repens anymore and there isn't much water wisteria left. This is the tank I mentioned before with the old PC bulb and vals.


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## mitko1994 (Dec 12, 2012)

Alright thanks! The reason I asked is because I don't drive so pick up is usually hard for me especially when people live in Markham and Oakville. I assume you live near Yonge and Finch which is fairly close to me so it would've been easy for me to come pick them up. Thanks for all the suggestions I will try more plants and try to get more plants growing to balance the fish load. It is now quite clear to me that I may not be getting the most out of my lights the way they are currently set due their wide beam angle. I will hopefully convince my dad to make a canopy for them in the spring which should be able to bring them closer to the surface and confine the light within the tank boundaries.


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## Puissance (Dec 17, 2015)

I've read that floaters are good at sucking up excess nutrients, so maybe try frogbit or hornwort? With hornwort, you can anchor them down so they don't have to float. I've also heard that s repens are great for low light carpet and that crypts grow rather easily in low light, too.

I have low light (20w LED) for my 36G bow front that is about 21" deep and the plants that have been growing well are ludwigia red hybrid (these are growing fast and are beautiful), hornwort, frogbit, and amazon swords. I can see daily growth with these plants. I have an 8 hour photoperiod split into two 4 hour chunks.

My moneywort and lindernia rotundifolia are healthy, but are growing slowly.

Corkscrew vals aren't doing well in my tank though.

I saw solarz youtube video with the jungle val background and it looks amazing! I hope to grow something similar soon!


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## mitko1994 (Dec 12, 2012)

I have frogbit.I got them to help with nitrates but it didn't really help. It had covered half my tank when I was dosing ferts. When I stopped to control the algae, it died off. Now I'm down to ~15 plants, but I like it that way. Another thing is that these guys never seem to grow long roots. I used to see my barbs pick on them before but not anymore. Maybe they are still doing it by I just don't see it. They do however form new leaves quite often. Another thing that disturbs their growth is the current on the surface.From what I read they hate moving water. I'm not sure an amazon sword would survive with a 10" pleco around. Are you dosing any ferts/CO2? Is your ludwigia actually red? What about a red tiger lotus?


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## Puissance (Dec 17, 2015)

Hmm interesting. I only have 3 frogbit so far and it looks like it's propagating a 4th. I've already trimmed the roots once last week since I like them short, but some of its roots are reaching halfway down my tank already, but I guess every tank is different.

I have root tabs and dose Excel every other day. I don't dose excel daily because of the vals. Some have reported that they melt with excel. No CO2 and only 3 guppies so far, so small bioload if that makes any difference. The substrate is flourite.

The ludwigia are red. New leaves from the top appear to be red, but new leaves from the stem appear to be green, at least for now. I've only had them for about 2 weeks.


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## mitko1994 (Dec 12, 2012)

Hmm, interesting, I bet the excel(which is liquid CO2) is helping the ludwigia with the red colour.The root tabs are probably beneficial to your vals and amazon swords as they mainly feed through their roots. I'm definitely interested in getting the ludwigia even if it has just a little pink tint. It will still be nice and make a difference in the overall look of the tank. I'm also thinking of getting a red tiger lotus(lily plant).


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## Puissance (Dec 17, 2015)

I saw some really red and nice looking red ludwigia at the Richmond Hill PetSmart recently. I was very tempted to pick one up. They were surprisingly healthy looking.

I'm not sure what gives the plant it's colour, but if it has the nutrients and proper lighting, it should stay red. I also don't dose liquid fertilizers because I think the root tabs will leak excess nutrients into the water column. So far it has been working alright.


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## mitko1994 (Dec 12, 2012)

This is probably a bit off topic but I came across some interesting results regarding the effect of glass tops on PAR. This is probably another thing that reduces the light that reaches my tank considering my glass tops are not very clean and they have a fair amount of calcium build up on them.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/10-lighting/198892-par-reduction-do-1-4-glass.html

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/1...s-top-cut-par-spectrum-compared-open-top.html

If you are wondering how I even thought about researching this, it's because one of my 3 year old bosemani males jumped out of the tank overnight . He was the best looking out of all of them too with a hump starting to form. My glass top looks to be useless, I have one of the flaps open for the feeder, but I guess that's still enough for them to jump out. I'm thinking of getting some clear mesh from aquarium overload and possibly getting someone to build me a wooden canopy so I can bring the lights closer to the tank.


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