# help me choose some invertebrates



## zfarsh (Apr 7, 2011)

ok, so i need ideas / help on which invertebrate (s) to have for the following:

It will be a 7.5 gallon tank, but only 1/2 - 3/4 full of water. No Filter, but water fill be circulating and there is flow in it due to a water pump. Actually, this is the sump for a not so aquaponics system, though there will be no fish, put i want some creatures to live here and make some "poop" for the plants, and i was thinking of some invertebrates. I may put a light and some java moss and maybe (depending on the exact invertebrates), Some Java Ferns on a driftwood.

So certain invertebrates i could try for fun:

- Snails: not sure what kind, maybe Apixi, maybe large ones such Apple Snails (never had this before), maybe Ramshorn (never had this before).

- RCS: This will be compatible with snails, and if they do reproduce too much (i doubt it), i can put transfer some to my other tanks. Other larger shrimps would be ok too.

- Crayfish: No idea on what to get here, but i suspect it may not be compatible with snails and i think i was told RCS will be ok as they are too fast for them to catch, and thus less losses. Need ideas here, havent kept any since i was a little kid. I hear there are some self replicating ones too. Also, where can i get them? Woudl love to try this out honnestly, and this may be the only place i can keep them in.

I live in Oakville, but can go to Mississauga / Burlington / Milton to get these. Also, planing to make some visits at AI and Menagerie sometimes soon probably. Thanks in advance.


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## getochkn (Jul 10, 2011)

Shrimp don't make a lot of poop and won't feed your system very much. Most crayfish eat any plants/moss they can find and will shred it as well as anything else they can find to eat in the tank. Considering this a sump and not a display tank, if you go shrimp, go cheap. Go cheap snails and ghost shrimp or something. I wouldn't put CRS or something in a tank you won't even see. Guppies would probably be a better poop source, are live breeding so they will keep their population ever going and give you more poop.


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## zfarsh (Apr 7, 2011)

ok, thanks for sharing, i appreciate it. CRS would be out of the question indeed. For the crayfish, i was going to keep only java moss which i have seen certain people use, but could even eliminate that if it is a problem. For the guppies, what kind (the fancies??) and woudl i need mroe femailes i guess and only a few mailes? Hmm, similarly, maybe i could use white mountain minnows if i dont go the shrimp / crayfish / Snail way.


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## Jackson (Jan 30, 2009)

I'll hopefully have some red P. Clarkii babies if they survive that I can give you to try out. 
They're very small right now so I'll let them grow a bit. 

I won't need all of them so if they survive and grow well I will gladly pass some on to you. 

Snails might be good as a clean up crew but a feeder goldfish is 1000x better. One feeder will produce more waste and clean up at the same time lol

Edit- I keep crayfish ( feeders ) with snails and don't find any dead snails


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

For an aquaponics system, you actually want a high bioload, so guppies is a good choice.


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## zfarsh (Apr 7, 2011)

thanks for the responses, they have made me think in ways i hadnt.

After further consideration, i feel that crayfish may reproduce too much on their own, and i dont have any fish that will eat them, and they seem aggressive towards each other and fish and plants, so it would be somewhat stressfull for me... thats too bad. Unless maybe i went after the CPO dwarf types, and then maybe sell them if i got extra ones (not sure if it is easy to sell to other members / petstores).

guppies seem fine, but then, why not white cloud moutain minnows instead? I personaly preffer the WCMM because i can transfer extra ones to my main tank, which i have some in. As for the guppies, which type? The fancy type or the feeder type? And are they both available at Menagerie / AI, as i dont want to get diseased one... I was just unsure that fish would be ok in a small little 7.5 gallon tank with only 1/2 - 3/4 water level.

I guess I could add some Amanos / RCS or Ghost shrimps to either fish type. 

Snails. Yes, i am looking for some snails too add as well.

Would have loved a goldfish, but i feel my tank is way too small for it, and i currently dont see oportunites for increasing the tanks length (maybe high, but not too much on length wise). thanks for the idea though


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

If you're able to successfully breed white clouds, then by all means go with those!


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

If, however, you want a clean up crew of sorts in there, Ghost or Blue Claw Whiskers do an outstanding job of eating not only whatever biofilm they find and algae, like on tank walls or plants, but also any creature that may die. So if something dies, Ghosts will dispose of it before it ever has a chance to ruin the water chemistry.

As for supplying enough waste to keep things going, larger snails, especially Mystery snails, are darn messy and produce a lot of waste, especially if amply fed, nearly as much as goldfish do. But they also clean glass by eating the algaes and film on it, any dead plant matter and left over fish food. They will only bother live plants if starving. And if they breed, people are often looking for them, especially in the less common colours of blues, blacks, purples, etc.

Aspixi snails are also very attractive. When small, they resemble a horned, aka 'thorned' nerite, only no horns to be seen. They lay large, loose jellied egg masses, so reproduction seems assured. Ramshorns, if you mean the small ones we see all the time, also reproduce quickly, with half moon shape, thick jelly sets of eggs on leaves or glass. Also produce a fair bit of poop, and don't eat live plants, near as I can tell, nor do nerites eat plants, but will eat algaes other snails won't, such as the brown stuff and some are said to eat blue/green though I've yet to see that happen myself.

I'd go with some mystery snails, maybe a couple nerites if you get bad algae, one or two Spixi if you like them, & a handful of Ghost shrimp, 10 or 20. Or just ten Ghosts, be sure at least four are female and then maybe four or five Blue Claw Whiskers, trying for mostly females.. just one or two males. Hard to tell apart unless the girls are berried though.

And despite the caution label they often come with, I've never had aggression issues with these shrimp. They don't bother any of my fish, not even tiny ones, corys or loaches, or other shrimp unless newborn size. They seem to like to pick clam or snails shells clean but don't bother them. The snails don't even pull in their horns when the shrimp pick at them. They don't eat plants, just algae if there is some, in fact, the only pushy time is when they argue with each other over food, but I've yet to see damage done by one to another. 

They're quite peaceful and also Whiskers are larger than Ghosts, though they look rather similar. They really do have blue claws, and are outstanding scavengers of anything dead as well as algae. The females get berried often but though they'll hatch in FW, the zoeys don't live long in FW, they need brackish to grow. Thus they may contribute a small amount to the filter load when the eggs or zoeys die, but not much because they're so very small. Some may be eaten if there are fish to eat them.

Ghost shrimp WILL hatch in FW but the zoeys are invisible. They are able to survive in FW tanks, though not in very high numbers, but if you have no filtration, survival rates should be higher. So you ought to get some new Ghost shrimps, provided their tank is very mature as the zoeys and newly morphed shrimplets eat biofilm and then algae. Or you can just use some Invert food for corals to supplement if you see a female has dropped her eggs for a couple of weeks 'tll they are big enough to eat more things. Or just ignore that and see how nature does on her own.

Beauty of all this is, you can have quite a few shrimp in a small tank, and 4 - 5 big snails, and some smaller ones will give you enough bioload to keep it all going nicely, and shrimp will be excellent cleaning crew. I've had a clam + two or three big snails pass away, but they never, ever fouled the water.. they weren't there long enough. Shrimp swarmed em and the MTS snails finished the job nicely. The shells were clean enough to put on a shelf, no smell left in them once dry. A few MTS snails churning the substrate can't hurt either.. you can always pull them out if the numbers grow too high and they seem to enjoy cleaning up any leftover bits of dead anything too.


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## zfarsh (Apr 7, 2011)

Hi Fishfur,

Thank you again for the very long informative response, wow, very nice, and i have never had blue claw whiskers, and might possibly be interested in getting a few. Where can i get them?

I decided to try to put one of my handicaped fancy goldfish in the tank, she doesnt move much and is gonna be a bottom sitter for life, she has the swim bladder disorder. Will the Blue Claw Whiskers attack my fish? Anyways, i am currious to try this type of shrimp, is it a fresh water life the cherry where it can breed (like the ghost / rcs)???

What are zoeys??


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

I actually think apple snails are a perfect fit. They can poo a ton if you feed them enough. And if you tank is covered, it's a perfect environment for them, they will breed and lay eggs under the cover.

Then, on top of that, put some cherry shrimps or higher grade of cherry (like fire red). They breed well and not very demanding. But you should only do this if there's enough water (you said it won't be full), if there's less then 4G or water, I won't add shrimps.


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

You can get Blue Claws at Big Als Mississauga most of the time. So long as that goldfish can move, Blue Claw shrimp should not bother her.. but if she is not able to move, then they may try to eat her. Basically they leave living things alone, but if a fish appears dead and does not move away from them, at that point they may well try to eat it. So would most other shrimp, they are scavengers, after all. It's what they do. You'd have to judge if the goldfish is active enough to be safe with shrimp.

They do breed well, but you must have brackish water for the larvae to survive. Eggs do hatch in FW, but don't survive unless moved to brackish water to grow until they morph into the adult form.


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