# Shrimp Hording and dying?



## archangelvk (Feb 15, 2016)

Hey Community,

So I started up a 45G Freshwater tank back in the summer holiday. I let it cycle for 2 months then added some plants. A month after that I added tons of plants. Finally 3 months after the initial setup I finally added 20 Yellow Cherry Shrimp. They started to multiply like crazy and to date I have around 150 in there. The ONLY other fish I have in that tank are 6 otos. Today I noticed that a HUGE chunk of my shrimp are all swarmed together near the front of the tank. They have been like this for the past 12 hours. In addition, Three adults died on me today too as well as 2 infant ones. I did a water test and Ammonia and Nitrite is 0 and Nitrate is less than five. I dont think its a water issue or my otos would have been the first to die. The ONLY other thing I can think of is yesterday I added 4 new Hygrophila Corymbosa (Spelling?) into my tank and a first dose of Flourish Advance (New-ish product from Seachem). Would that cause the shrimp to die? If not, whats causing them to die? Ive attached a pic of the swarming.


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## kolegrundy92 (May 9, 2016)

They look like they are swarming to eat something or mate.

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## archangelvk (Feb 15, 2016)

kolegrundy92 said:


> They look like they are swarming to eat something or mate.
> 
> Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk


Just wondering what they are swarming to eat. I never feed them anything. I hang a cucumber piece on the glass near the surface but other than that, theres nothing there. Most of the shrimp that are there are too young to mate.


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## kolegrundy92 (May 9, 2016)

Males cam mate at a pretty small size tbh. Are you feeding any fish foods with any type of copper in them? That will kill them.

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## archangelvk (Feb 15, 2016)

kolegrundy92 said:


> Males cam mate at a pretty small size tbh. Are you feeding any fish foods with any type of copper in them? That will kill them.
> 
> Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk


The ONLY food I put in that tank is blanched Cucumber and Zucchini.


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## Boreas (Dec 8, 2015)

What are you using for water flow? Plants and hardscape can cause dead spots where toxins can build up. Just a thought.


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## archangelvk (Feb 15, 2016)

Boreas said:


> What are you using for water flow? Plants and hardscape can cause dead spots where toxins can build up. Just a thought.


So Im using two HoB filters. One is aquaclear 20 and the other is a fluval c4. 
I read up on it and did come across the dead spot comments on other fourms but the place where they are hanging out is actually almost directly under the current where the water falls. Its so freaking strange.


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## infolific (Apr 10, 2016)

archangelvk said:


> I can think of is yesterday I added 4 new Hygrophila Corymbosa (Spelling?) into my tank and a first dose of Flourish Advance (New-ish product from Seachem).


I tried out Seachem Advance. I didn't notice any impact to my shrimp when I was using it. I didn't notice any impact on my plants when I used it either (or when I stopped) since we're on the topic.


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## Boreas (Dec 8, 2015)

My two guesses:

The shrimp are running away from areas of high ammonia. Where they are would be a safe spot. Test different areas of your tanks water and do big water changes.

Second guess would be wherever you got your plants from uses a lot of copper and iron in their tanks for fertiliser. Do big water changes.


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## archangelvk (Feb 15, 2016)

Boreas said:


> My two guesses:
> 
> The shrimp are running away from areas of high ammonia. Where they are would be a safe spot. Test different areas of your tanks water and do big water changes.
> 
> Second guess would be wherever you got your plants from uses a lot of copper and iron in their tanks for fertiliser. Do big water changes.


Yeah I figured it must be something in the water. I did a 30% water change yesterday and it didnt seem to make a difference in the hording spot they picked. I will do a 20% water change daily over the next week. See if it helps. I bought the plants off Big Als and the guy said he had got it from Singapore so who knows what they used. Are otos okay with copper and iron?


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## archangelvk (Feb 15, 2016)

infolific said:


> I tried out Seachem Advance. I didn't notice any impact to my shrimp when I was using it. I didn't notice any impact on my plants when I used it either (or when I stopped) since we're on the topic.


I agree with your statement about Advance


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

Otos are catfish, so they have very fine, tiny scales. They are often referred to as scaleless fish. This means they're somewhat more affected by a lot of toxins than most other fish species. 

Anything with copper sulfate in it may bother them ( some Ich treatments are based on CS as well as some algicides. Molluscicides ( snail killers) are based on copper sulfate too ). If a tank has been treated with a copper sulfate med, removing it afterward is extremely difficult and many shrimp keepers would never use such a tank for shrimp or snails ever again for that reason.

Too high iron levels are also not good for most critters. Testing for iron levels is a reasonable way to ensure you don't overdose iron from various fertilizer sources and if iron levels are ok, it usually is thought that trace minerals for plants will be ok too.

Copper and iron are both also trace minerals which are necessary to the diet of most creatures, including that of shrimp. Copper is added as part of the vitamin/mineral supplement to virtually all commercially available fish and shrimp foods and unless there was some drastic error in the manufacturing, its presence there causes no problems for shrimp or other invertebrates. 

Copper water piping also isn't usually a problem and it would be rare to find water that has not been through at least some copper piping at some point before it got to your fish tank, at least around this area anyway. Some very new and some renovated buildings may have all PEX water piping, which is made of plastic. But I'm not so sure plastic is safer, especially for hot water piping, but that's me.

Dosing from copper based meds ( copper sulfate) is the single most common source of copper toxicity and for iron, it's most commonly from iron supplements or ferts for plants but might come from some metal bit rusting into the water, perhaps. In the wild, copper and other metals in water are often the result of manufacturing run off and waste - IOW, pollution, but can be from natural ores too.

Most plants MUST be subjected to some kind of pesticide treatment before they can legally be imported into Canada, so it is always a fine idea to rinse off and then soak new plants at least overnight. Can't hurt to change the water once or twice either, which should be more than enough to remove any possible trace residues. 

If the plant's been in the store's tank for a few days or longer, chances of pesticide residues high enough to kill aren't very likely but it has been reported from time to time. It would have its effect very soon after the plant was put in the tank, I'd expect, if it happened.

You can get water tests for iron and also for copper if you want to be sure if either is high enough to cause problems for livestock.


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## Fisheye (Jan 13, 2015)

Hi archangelvk,

I've been following this thread and am just wondering about the situation with your shrimp. Hope everything has returned to normal.

Jackie


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## archangelvk (Feb 15, 2016)

Fisheye said:


> Hi archangelvk,
> 
> I've been following this thread and am just wondering about the situation with your shrimp. Hope everything has returned to normal.
> 
> Jackie


Thanks for the check up. Yup everything is back to normal. The shrimp no longer all huddle in that one spot, and no more died after the following day. It was weird because even after I did a large water change ~50%, they still swarmed a particular spot for the next few days. I only put in zucchinis for feeding so its not like there was a pocket of old food or anything. Weird....


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## alstare2000 (Feb 16, 2013)

Just red this post;
Another option for the hording is if the substrate was disturbed ex. you were planting couple of these new plants the micro organisms and nutrients trapped in substrate would be disturbed and shrimp would have new spot to feed on until all gone and they moved on.

The same thing could have caused death due to toxins etc inside of the substrate (depending how much digging you did) possibly weaker shrimp or something in the seachem or on the new plants could have affected them.

Cheers


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