# Knave's SW Plunge



## KnaveTO (May 13, 2007)

Okay... so I have decided to take the plunge into the salt water tank phenominon. However I do have a number of quesions.

Currently I have a Rena XP1 on the 30 gallon tank that will become my salt tank. Will this still be a decent filtration system, or do I need to look at something else? 

I also understand that I will probably have to replace my lighting system. However till there is coral in the tank can I stick it out the current Coralife T5?

I currently have stalth heaters on all my tanks so that small piece of equipment is covered. However what other equipment will I need to look at purchasing to get the tank to a pre set-up condition?


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## UnderTheSea (Jun 2, 2008)

KnaveTO said:


> Okay... so I have decided to take the plunge into the salt water tank phenominon. However I do have a number of quesions.
> 
> Currently I have a Rena XP1 on the 30 gallon tank that will become my salt tank. Will this still be a decent filtration system, or do I need to look at something else?
> 
> ...


You have a little bit of reading to do.......

Scrap the filter. Sell it and use the money towards are skimmer. Skimmer IMO is the most important part of the setup. Don't cheap out or you will regret it. There are many of us that went through at least one skimmer before making the upgrade. In my case I'm on my 3rd.

Your T5's will do for now as a fish only but you will need to upgrade to T5HO or MH's for corals.

Do you plan on having a refugium/sump?

Have you ever used chemicals in the tank you are going to use?


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## hojimoe (Mar 7, 2008)

I agree with underthesea, don't use a filter, sump/refuge will do fine, skimmers are important, especially when you go over 10-15gallons IMO, i will be making my own when I upgrade


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

KnaveTO said:


> I currently have stalth heaters on all my tanks so that small piece of equipment is covered. However what other equipment will I need to look at purchasing to get the tank to a pre set-up condition?


Well, as UTS said, for fish only, a T5 fixture should be fine, but you'll need stronger lighting once you get some of the more light demanding corals. look into these as there are many many options out there: T5HO, MH and more recently LEDs are making a splash.

Filtration is mostly done by live rock and live sand (biological filtration), and mechanical filtration is better achieved in a sump or HOB, as the filtration media can easily be cleaned every/other day to prevent nitrate build-up. Ditch the canister, unless it is to fill with live rock and used to increase LR and water volume of the system.

You will require at least 2 powerheads or equivalent for flow. Look into the vortech MP-20/40 pumps; I believe they are one of the best investments I've made in tank equipment so far.

You of course will need test kits. I got both the API salt water and reef master test kits, as the saltwater one only comes with pH, Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate, where as the reef one also had kH, Calcium, phosphate and another nitrate test.

You will need a refractometer to measure salinity. I got a hydrometer, but save yourself the trouble, and for only 40 or so more dollars, get a refractometer.

As for the refugium/sump, you can use a large HOB (AC 110 or AC70 works well) to create a refugium, if you choose to use one.

If you intend to make your own salt water, and RO/DI system is needed too. And the salt.

And for live rock, go to QB aquarium. Best live rock, and many many happy customers on the site 

We're here to help, and a lot of newbies (in the past month alone...) to guide you through it, as well as the seasoned guys here too.

The transition to SW was pretty easy and very rewarding. I'm sure you'll enjoy it a lot.


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## blossom112 (Mar 19, 2008)

Gee all going into SW and im planning a new FW tank .

The most important thing i think is the q underthesea asked 


> Have you ever used chemicals in the tank you are going to use?
> Yesterday 11:48 PM


AHHH my opinion Dont need a skimmer (lots of LR should do the trick)... I went months and months without one , but i do use one when i get new corals or frags in the tank .most the time it is unplugged.Maybe anything over 30 gl i would use more .(cheap prizm HOB skimmer i love it )
I use tap water  and condition with prime.
Nano powerheads are on sale right now 
I would say 30 gl is a great choice !

You dont have to spend big cash to start up !
that will come with corals!!!!
Welcome I say jump in with 2 feet !!!!!!!


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## UnderTheSea (Jun 2, 2008)

hojimoe said:


> I agree with underthesea, don't use a filter, sump/refuge will do fine, skimmers are important, especially when you go over 10-15gallons IMO, i will be making my own when I upgrade


DIY Skimmers use to be a common thing until everything was outsourced to Asia. If you like DIY projects and are willing to spend the time and money to get a skimmer right the I would say go ahead, especially if you are considering a tall airstone skimmer.

Have a look at bubble magus, octopus etc, proven mid class skimmers that are inexpensive.


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## conix67 (Jul 27, 2008)

Isn't the use of skimmer still a debated topic? I heard there's definitely benefit but it is offset by disadvantages of losing essential trace elements, etc.. which now you have to supplement in other forms..


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## hojimoe (Mar 7, 2008)

UnderTheSea said:


> DIY Skimmers use to be a common thing until everything was outsourced to Asia. If you like DIY projects and are willing to spend the time and money to get a skimmer right the I would say go ahead, especially if you are considering a tall airstone skimmer.
> 
> Have a look at bubble magus, octopus etc, proven mid class skimmers that are inexpensive.


hehe yeah I know, but I can get A LOT Of materials free at school


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## Ciddian (Mar 15, 2006)

I never started with a skimmer, i did play around with one but removed it.

I think one of the other things is how much water your dealing with and bio load.

Could knave just load up that Rena with LR rubble? I kinda wanted to do that myself.

Good luck Ross! Looking forward to your journal! <3


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## UnderTheSea (Jun 2, 2008)

If you are dry skimming you are not losing a lot of salt water and therefore not losing a lot of trace elements. Replacing elements through water changes is a good idea but at what rate? It another one of those topics discussed in great depths and there is no right or wrong but whatever works for you. I enjoy doing 30g water changes only 4-6 times a year on my total volume of 275g (170 DT, 65 Sump & 40 frag). This is what has worked for me and the livestock in my tank.

Live rock can't do it all unless you reallllllly load up on the rock. Skimmers are a debated topic as well but you will find the majority of tanks have skimmers. Have a look at some european tanks, all have skimmers (You will find I refer to their tanks on a regular basis and there is a reason, they are far superior to most NorthAmerican systems)


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## KnaveTO (May 13, 2007)

So what I am thinking here is a tank with about 4 or 6 fish, some corals and a cleanup crew of shrimps and crabs. The only fish that I am sold on is a pair of cinnamon perculatas (sp?). As for corals I have depth and length to work with so there are definately options.

I will be loading the Rena with LR to increase that aera of filtration. Just seems like a good idea. As for skimmers I pretty much seem to be limited to the Prizm one as space behind the tank is limited and the depth of the unit is perfect. I could go with a sump as I have a few spare tanks around that are only collecting dust right now. Some 5 gallons and some 10s. In that case I guess I would need a pump system for it. What else would one need for a sump. Also what is the ratio of tank size for a sump? How much work is needed to set-up a sump system? Are there any kits out there to set one up as I am not the worlds best handiman. Otherwise I would go with a AC HOB

To answer the question about the tank... no I have never used chemicals in that tank.


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## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

IMHO, you are far better off using a few PHs and 2xHOBs (1xrefugium, 1xChem filter). Changing media in a HOB is far easier and less time consuming than servicing the canister filter.

Adding LR to the canister filter is a good idea if you plan to use it, but in my mellon in the overall scheme of things, is just adding more LR in the system and the canister filter is an expensive powerhead.

I've ran a 35gall reef skimmerless for years before I moved and used the XP2 for a chem filter...a real PITA to change the media compared to using an HOB filter. Bi-weekly water changes and various additives and it flourished until the window AC died when we were away. I'll find a pic and post it.

HTH in your salty quest


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## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

Well, the files are in a fried HDD...

Here's a pic of an old client's 75gal skimmerless. Not sure what it's like now


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## KnaveTO (May 13, 2007)

Alrighty... so far... my decisions are 

Lighting - to take the existing T5 on my FW tank and replace the bulbs with True Actinic Blue bulbs for night lighting as well as purchase a T5HO S/W double strip light and have 2 10,000k bulbs in it.

Filtration - take Wilsons advise and grab a pair of AC HOB filters rather than the Rena and a single HOB.

Skimmer - going to stay away from that for the moment as it is only 30 gallons.

Powerheads - I have some powerheads around the house as it is so may use one of them as well as a directional type powerhead.

Live Rock - guess QB is going to be getting some business from me. He seems to have the most interesting LR... and hitchhikers 

Substrate - this is one of those areas I haven't quite made up my mind about... however whatever I purchase my be good for all types of fish and inverts... so that does limit my selection I have noticed.

RO/DI - unfortunately I live in an apartment and the hook up of such a system isn't feasible. So I am going the other route and buying the salt water premixed.

Thoughts and/or suggestions?


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## Ciddian (Mar 15, 2006)

You can always buy those 3 dollar for 5 gallon deals too.. How much is the premix? I have never looked


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

I get premixed SW from BA for 99 cents a gallon. Does Menagerie sell premixed RO salt water?


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## KnaveTO (May 13, 2007)

If I remember... it is $0.99 per gallon. As for Menagerie... no they do not... at least not that I am aware of.


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

KnaveTO said:


> Alrighty... so far... my decisions are
> 
> Lighting - to take the existing T5 on my FW tank and replace the bulbs with True Actinic Blue bulbs for night lighting as well as purchase a T5HO S/W double strip light and have 2 10,000k bulbs in it.
> 
> ...


You will love the live rock from QB for sure. A lot of purple, a lot of hitch hikers and a lot of interesting shapes and sizes available. My LR as started to grow a lot more deep red coralline too, which I think looks great.

If you're interested, I will have an AC70 modified for a refugium and space for a heater available soon.


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## KnaveTO (May 13, 2007)

Would definately be interested in the modified AC70!


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## conix67 (Jul 27, 2008)

I think Quang is running out of cured LRs fast...

I don't think APT necessarily limits your choice on RO/DI filtering system. I would look around to see what's possible. I just use RO water (no DI) from my drinking water system.

Do you really have many chocies available in SW substrate? I wasn't looking carefully but most if not all SW tanks I've seen are filled with aragonite sand.


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

I've also seen some tanks filled with black sand (not sure what maker), and it looks pretty neat, but I still prefer aragonite, as it looks more natural.


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## KnaveTO (May 13, 2007)

Well what I am looking for is something that6 is burrower friendly, sfiter safe and soft belly safe.

so from Carib-sea I have AragAlive West Caribean or Bimini Pink or Ocean Direct Original Grade


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## KnaveTO (May 13, 2007)

Quetion... what sort of paint should I purchase to paint the back of my tank with?


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## hojimoe (Mar 7, 2008)

KnaveTO said:


> Quetion... what sort of paint should I purchase to paint the back of my tank with?


wtac suggested vinyl to me, i suggest the same ... any idea what color?


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## KnaveTO (May 13, 2007)

I was hoping for something midnight blue in colour


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## KnaveTO (May 13, 2007)

So you all sold me on the VorTech model. Harold at Menagerie is ordering me one


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Cool. You'll like it for sure. Despite mine crapping out (an obvious manufacturing defect), I really like it. I can't wait to have it back.

If you don't mind me asking, how much are you getting it for from Menagerie?


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## KnaveTO (May 13, 2007)

I have no idea yet. He is ordering from one of his suppliers.


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## KnaveTO (May 13, 2007)

Menagerie is also stocking a new type of live sand by a compan7y called Natures Ocean. They carry a black argonite live sand.


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Well, you'll have to tell how much it was from Menagerie, as it would be great to have a local supplier that could be competitive with the US online companies. 

That being said, I can't wait for menagerie to start bringing in some corals. I'm sure they'll have some good ones.

Black aragonite? Sounds cool, but personally I really like the white coral/aragonite sand. Looks much more natural, and unlike a planted tank, I don't think it would add anything to the color of the corals.


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## KnaveTO (May 13, 2007)

I am sticking with the natural white stuff myself but thought I would mention they have the black stuff if anyone is interested


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## KnaveTO (May 13, 2007)

Well the 30 gallon is officially empty as of today! With the H&DAS Auction I was able to clear out some stock that I wanted to get rid of and that included the contents of that 30 gallon tank. As I will be travelling at the end of the month no water or any of that will be going into the tank till just before or after Halloween.

So I have been looking around for lighting and decided to go with the Nova SunDial 30" T5HO with 2-10k, 2-460nm Actinic bulbs and 2 moonlights.

Thoughts?


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## KnaveTO (May 13, 2007)

hojimoe said:


> wtac suggested vinyl to me, i suggest the same ... any idea what color?


Uh... went to the local hardware store today and they looked at me funny when I asked for Vinyl paint. They did have some polyeurathane stuff that would pain on vinyl but it needed to be prepped with a primer paint. So... what do you mean by vinyl paint?


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## conix67 (Jul 27, 2008)

KnaveTO said:


> Uh... went to the local hardware store today and they looked at me funny when I asked for Vinyl paint. They did have some polyeurathane stuff that would pain on vinyl but it needed to be prepped with a primer paint. So... what do you mean by vinyl paint?


I believe WTAC suggested Vinyl background, not Vinyl paint. Vinyl background is safer and less messy.


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## KnaveTO (May 13, 2007)

Oh... LOL. From everything I have read so far Painting the back of the tank is best because you will have to deal with salt creep with Vinyl


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## conix67 (Jul 27, 2008)

Yeah, I personally don't like the Vinyl anymore. I painted mine with black spray paint from Walmart. I think any kind is fine as long as you don't spray inside accidentally. I used semigloss finish but the look should be the same from tank side regardless of finish type.


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## KnaveTO (May 13, 2007)

Guess I am going back to the store tomorrow and grabbing what I can then. Wonder if I can get a Navy Blue?


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