# Suggestions for Starting up a 20Gal Tank?



## Tearran (Oct 4, 2009)

Hey All, I'm new to these forums, and decided I missed keeping my fish way to much!

I’m currently living in a pretty small space and thinking a 20-30 gallon is all I can really manage at this time. That being said, I'm only really experienced with larger tanks and I hear that smaller tanks can actually be more of a challenge due to the speed at which water stability can change.

I was wondering if you ladies and gents could help me decide on a good setup, that’s low tech, but can still bring a little bit of high tech beauty to my room.

Here is what I’m Looking for.

Hardy low/med light plants. - i Know of a few but am not well versed in plants or what’s readily available in Toronto

Easy to keep fish that would be happy in a 20 gal - also what does well in Toronto water without having to work to much with ph/water hardness.

I would also eventually like to try my hand at invertebrates, more so shrimp then snails.

Is my dream tank viable for something as small as a 20?

Filtration and lighting wise, - What would you suggest? 

Any other help/tips/suggestions are also appreciated. 

Thanks for your time.
Greg.


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## Tropicana (Feb 15, 2009)

Well for fish, id like to suggest Sailfin Mollies try to get a couple males and 3+ females they are really nice and showy fish with there displays, They would work in a low tech planted 20 watts some easy plants not sure on substrate and they breed like crazy... Or. you could do a classic African Cichlid tank, Sandy few rocks with a bunch of Snail shells that would house a small shell dweller community in crystal clear water with nice lighting. mmm gives me some ideas lol Good luck . mm thats from a Rocky African Cichlid point of view. 

Mostly All African cichlids do well in TO water since the PH it high.


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## AquaNeko (Jul 26, 2009)

Tearran said:


> Hey All, I'm new to these forums, and decided I missed keeping my fish way to much!
> 
> I'm currently living in a pretty small space and thinking a 20-30 gallon is all I can really manage at this time. That being said, I'm only really experienced with larger tanks and I hear that smaller tanks can actually be more of a challenge due to the speed at which water stability can change.
> 
> ...


Welcome ot the forums Greg/Tearran. I too am also a 'renewed newbie' to this hobby. Used to own long long LOONG time ago but only recently started up again from scratch. I can share some of my experiences from the past and new learnings with you to help you out.

With a 20gal you've got a lot more room to work with over the smaller tanks. I'm assuming this is a 20gal standard size? Well a site I saw a nicely put together list is Fishlore forums stocking list project for freshwater fish.

I used to own freshwater native caught fish/inverts by myself. I had a small minnow about the pinky to second joint small grow to just over the thumbs length when we didn't keep it anymore. Still puzzles me to this date if we released it or what. Can't remember. I also owned a few crayfish. If you're going to own crayfish you had better have a lid or a covering over that airline tube because these guys are escape artists. I've lost a few only to find they dried out up to 5 meters away from the tank. One day I caught the crayfish working it's escape and learned they climbed up the airtube. 

I also dabble in aquaponics so my information comes from the aquaponics community as well. Aquaponics is the merger of hydroponics and aquaculture to grow mostly edible crops or plants using fish water and the by products of the fish after they've been fed to fertilize your plants and in return the plants clean the water to make it safe for the fish again. Some people grow ediable fish while compact systems don't really raise edible fish but use the fish water just to fert thier plants.

As you're getting more involved and learning and owning fish/tanks it will don on you to save money when/where you can. I've learned some tips. Sea salt or Kosher salt can be used to salt a tank to help with 1. nitrites 2. giving fish some electrolytes. 3. helping with the fishes slime coat and healing of wounds. you can use that as a sub to aquarium salt to save money if you have some on hand or friends/family that have some. 1 teaspoon PER 5gal is what it says on the aquarium salt I got here before I learned of that tip. DO NOT USE TABLE SALT. I forgot but the iodide does something tot he fish. I'm sure someone can explain that.

While we're on the salt thing.. cheapest place to get some stuff is Wal-mart. Thier smallest aquarium salt and smallest activated charcoal tub is about $2-3 cheaper then Petsmart.

Also from the aquaponics community I've learned that aquarium gravel and pea gravel and essentually the same thing/size but that aquarium gravel gets one rinse then packaged and sold at higher prices at pet stores. Only advantage of aquarium gravel in pet stores is you have a lot of color choices but at a high premium price. Pea gravel can be found at most gardening/landscaping stores but you're limited to the natural color only. For say the price of a 5lb bag of gravel at a pet store price for price you will walk out with ~15-20lbs of gravel at the landscape place. Then again, as said you're limited to only one color only but for the price and quanity you can't be beat.

I've learned recently while hunting for low light plants that java moss, java fern, anubius, and wendtii crypt something are all low light plants saving you electricity and expense of having to buy expensive high power gear (or you can DIY some crazy LED light if you're that type of kat). I've learned that java moss can grow like crazy (fast grower) and get out of control in a matter of weeks if you don't keep it in check but then again it's more natural biofilter with that overgrown plant.

I hail from north of the city and my water tested IIRC 7.4pH (after a 1 min tap on to flush the pipes before testing and tested from the tap). Learned form the aquaponics community that vinegar will lower pH while sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) will raise pH. Also driftwood is a pH buffer but I can't remember if it buffers the pH down so that would require a double check as I'm not 100% on that. Peatmoss will lower/buffer your pH down. You can find those peat moss pellets in a garden center. (I remember Rona allowed you to buy then single for I think 20cents a piece.) Not only are they good for germinating seedlings but because the peat is mostly contained inside the mesh (biodegradeable) netting it will help reduce much coming out loose and going all over your tank. Another option, use that net they use to hold your garlic in when you buy garlic.  Reuse, reduce, recycle. 

If you decide to go the aquaponics route not only do you supply yourself with some useable edible plants (most indoors just grow cooking herbs) that growbed you make will pretty much take care of any nitites you have as it'll be more surface area then smaller/mid sized filters. Tip: Basil, lettuce, and spinich all do well with aquaponics as they love to suck all the nitrates out. Zucchini as well is a heavy feeder on that so the fish get nice nitrate free water returned ot the tank and you're maximizing your water use at the same time.

I think your 20gal will work well with you as you have many options open to you as your tank is larger. Then again it's how large a tank you want to go ith how much psace you have that you'd like. For lighting I'm bias to the screw in types so you don't have to buy any expensive special or hard (sometimes hard) smaller tube lighting. Also if for some reason the bulb goes and you happento need that bulb when all stores are closed you're likely to find a workable bulb or CFL at a corner store over a tube. Jsut a thought there to think about. Both types work for CFL or tube just go with what you like. My understanding is 2watts of light per gallon of water is the rule for IIRC low light plants. FYI 1 gallon = 8lbs. A 20 gal loaded with water is 225lbs roughly on this chart.

Also check out my thread on ideas for a 'off grid'/low power/no power for some ideas. Also on the aquaponics thing you can read up on this thread here and check the videos and diaries. Some people have made one as small as a 5.5gal IIRC.

cont...


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## AquaNeko (Jul 26, 2009)

cont...

I've no experience with shrimp so I can't help you there. For some fish ideas if you want to go unheated white cloud minnows from all my reading research can range from 5-27C. Also Killifish (not 'kill fish' as google will give you a lot of other stuff like I first searched with a typo not knowing the fish name.  ) have some native species in Canada. I've never owned this fish but being that we have some of this species in Ontario (there are many species around the world) I'm sure you can find some for your tank should you want to go unheated. I've done some reading on this fish and was amazed some species can survive in 47C water.  Yah so if you don't have AC looks like that would be a fish that you can live with. 

Also fromt he aquaponics community I've learned that if you have a larger growbed you can support a little more fish then your tank can sustain if they are low polluter fish (ie, not overstocking goldfish, altho goldfish is used in aquaponics as it give the most waste that the plants love).

Some places I've been to, to check out are:

Petsmart - thier freshwater master kit is cheaper then BigAl's by a few bucks. ~800 tests. They do not buy back fish but have a good DOA policy.

Walmart - some supplies are cheaper then other stores by a few bucks. Never buoght fish from them but I've heard hit/miss with thier fish.

Lucky's Aquarium - chrickets 15 for $1 IIRC. Prices are cheaper by a lot compared to Petsmart. For example a 'hi fin pleco' looking exactly the same color/spots/look was $14.99 at Petsmart. Lucky's has it ~$3.99. I had one before but tank pH disaster and I lost it. Cute little guy.

BigAl's - This is starting ot become my new favorite place. They have both online sales (no live stock sale online) on thier online store here and thier weekly in-store specials can are here. I fyou can think of something you need they likely have it there. I was wow'ed waking in seeing thier tanks of fish and decorations and such. They do buy back surplus fish if you have sapwns or breeding for instore credit to keep feeding you fish/equipment need. 

There are many other stores in Toronto and you can find out about then in the GENERAL MARKETPLACE as with store ratings and such. We're all here to help each other get a good deal and enjoy and have fun.

That's mostly all I know right now from my research/experience and what I've recently learned.


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## AquaNeko (Jul 26, 2009)

Ahh forgot..

Walmart has Sterilite 5-10gal plastic tubs that are perfect for a hospital tank without paying a higher expense for another aquaruim. The 5gal holds water with no buldge. The 10 gal holds water with almost no buldge. Both can be had for ~$3-6 bucks. The neat thing is that the sides have a hole on it that fits an air tube around the handle area on both sides. You can also close the lid without pinching the air tube liek it was made (coincidenty  ) for that use.


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

20g is fine - I've had one running for the past 12 years, and it can change fast, but as long as parameters aren't out of whack to begin with, and your stocking levels are reasonable, then a crash can easily be prevented.

As for low light plants, all ferns, most vals, all hygros, and most crypts will be suitable for your low-tech planted tank. You can keep mosses too, but they'll need to be kept higher up to maximize light.

Check out Menagerie (Parliament + Wellesley) - they have a good selection of plants (usually) and great advice.

Also, members of the forum usually have plant clippings and such available for purchase through the classifieds - a great way to get a good variety of healthy cheap plants, and a great way to meet people in this community.

I'd keep some egg-laying tropicals - they're easy to maintain and their numbers don't go crazy. Also, I find that live bearers tend to be messy - they crap a lot. A nice small school of colourful tetras, a few algae eaters (Otos are popular, Bushynose plecos are nice too), and maybe one or two other fish would make for a nice serene green space 

The guts: 
I'd get a glass top for a standard 20g high (24 x 12 x 16), and set yourself with a basic low-output T5 striplight. Coralife makes a great one, that's pretty cheap and uses two bulbs, so gives you a bit of choice with colour. This light will give you enough output to grow most things, but keep it low output enough that you won't need to fertilize and supplement ever.

If it's in your budget, I'd get a canister filter suitably sized for your tank (my personal recommendation would be an Eheim 2213), but a suitably size HOB (Hang on back) filter will be good too.

Substrate - go with a quality substrate to begin with. If you want to have a nice easy planted tank, I'd recommend eco-complete. It'll cost you $10 more than regular gravel for a bag, but it's well worth it.

After that, all you need is a heater (and you don't even really need to have one if your place maintains a stable temperature anywhere between 21 - 25C).

All in all, maintaining a low-light planted tank is fairly simple as long as you start with the right things, and 20g is plenty enough as a start.


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## Tearran (Oct 4, 2009)

Thanks for all the advice!

I think I have a fairly good handle on where I would like to start.

A pair of killifish actually sounds perfect for me. 
Eco complete (dark substrate) and low lighting/low light plants seem to go hand and hand with most species of killies.

Ill have to do alot more reading, but if anyone knew this off hand I'd be greatful.

Do Ottos ever eat eggs?
Are there shrimp that are safe to use with egg laying fish?

Went to Menagerie since its very close to see what they had, looks like they are still redoing their freshwater section, so ill have to check back in a few weeks - which gives me a great chance to properly cycle the tank I choose to get.

I would love to get an Ehiem 2211 if I can find it for fairly cheap, can a canister filter be rigged to filter say two 20 gallons in close proximity? (future plans  ) I've only ever used HoB biowheels.

ameekplec. - is this the light your refering too?

http://www.bigalsonline.ca/BigAlsCA/ctl3664/cp17943/si1316050/cl0/coralifefwt5aqualightdoublestriplight24

and would a PC Coralife 24" AquaLight Fixture - 1 x 65W, has a 50-50 bulb be to much light for a no co2 setup?

Thanks Again

Greg.


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## KhuliLoachFan (Mar 8, 2008)

I would recommend a HOB filter instead of cannister for a 10 or 20g.

I second whoever suggested Mollies. Livebearers or anybody who breeds readily, are lots of fun. Mollies, platies, swords, guppies. Easy to care for, especially the Platies. I bought four of them, two years ago, and I still have about 20 of them amongst all my tanks.

A trip to the fish store never hurt when it comes to making up your mind.


W


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