# Water changes with a Python No Spill



## Maverick (Oct 2, 2008)

I just got a python no spill aquarium cleaner, bought it used, got a good deal, but it didn't come with any instructions. Can't really find much on the net so I thought I would ask here. How much water should I change out? I have a 55gal. Should I fill with just cold water or use warm water? And is there any special way to start the syphen or will just running the water start it automatically? I know a 25% water change is about ideal but I was just thinking if adding all that cold tap water and it not being treated before going into the tank would affect the fish that much.


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## Cory_Dad (Apr 18, 2008)

Maverick said:


> I just got a python no spill aquarium cleaner, bought it used, got a good deal, but it didn't come with any instructions. Can't really find much on the net so I thought I would ask here. How much water should I change out? I have a 55gal. Should I fill with just cold water or use warm water? And is there any special way to start the syphen or will just running the water start it automatically? I know a 25% water change is about ideal but I was just thinking if adding all that cold tap water and it not being treated before going into the tank would affect the fish that much.


Funny you should ask...

Always use cold water.

As per the 'instructions':

- attach T connector to tap, turning the lower bell shaped device counter clockwise and down
- connect hose to centre of T connector and place acrylic tube into tank
- turn on tap, the action of water flowing down T connector causes suction on the house (based on Bernoulie principle)
- dig tube into gravel substrate, sucking up 'crap' (official term is mulm)
- when water level is about 1/4 way down from to of tank, stop

Now here is where I disagree:

- turn the lower bell shaped device clockwise and up, this closes the bottom of the T and forces water down the hose, into the tank
- add you dechlor based on the number of gallons of water that the 25% of removed water reflects ie. you got a 55 gallon, you remove 25% which is 13.75 (call is 15) gallons, so add dechlor based on 15 gallons. Keep running till tank is full.

The way I do it is:

- the day before, fill a large pail with 15 gallons of water, add dechlor, waiting 24 hours (more or less) allows the water to warm up (especially in winter)
- refill the tank with pail water from the day before

Hope this helped, cheers.


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## sawman88 (Sep 29, 2008)

awesome man once you start using that you will never go back to a bucket. IMO anyway soe people liek the bucket... to start it. attach the t valve thiny to the to faucet and make sure the bottom do dad is open. so the water just flows into the sinc.. (i go full blast but it might not be needed)it should be working now.. so siphon the water out. yeah 25% is a pretty good amount of WC you can go as far as 50% if you REALLY need to but just dont do it all the time... now once your done sucking water out secure the hose somewhere where water is going to go into the tank not all over the floor. run your hand int he water and then run your hand under the sice and use the hot and cold water to adjust match the tempratre. adjust the valves slowly becuse sometimes it takes time for the temp to adjust. now once you have the temp matched up grab the bottom dodad and screw it up forcing the water into your tank.
i add my treatments as i am filling the tank and ive had no issues with it. some things to be concerned with the python system are.. if you suck up a fish or shrip the chances of recovery are low.. and there is a useless on off switch near the siphon tube if you turn that off while your filling. it could cause too much pressure and break off at the faucet.... gl i hope that helps


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## BillD (Jun 5, 2006)

I always use a mixture of cold and hot from the tap, although I don't use a python (too slow to drain and can't fill as fast). I try and get it close to the tank temp or a little warmer. My cold comes through a charcoal filter, but I use dechlor anyway, to get what is missed and what is in the hot water. I can fill a tank quickly, because I have a goosenck on the end of the hose that terminates in a tee. This allows for a very fast hands free fill. I change at least 50% and as much as 90%, depending on the load in the tank, but if I bring the hoses out I don't fool around with small amounts. If I miss a week, no big deal, because I have changed more than necessary. However, to arbitrarily say "25% is ideal" is nonsense. Every tank is different, and the minimum amount that needs to be changed depends on the bioload of that tank, not some arbitrary figure someone posted on a forum or wrote in a book. Changing more than that minimum is good practice, and will do no harm. It keeps you ahead of problems.


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## sawman88 (Sep 29, 2008)

it will do no harm? what about adding too much chemicals from the tap water? chlorine floride and all the other crap thats in city water. i guess if your on a well and or you have some crazy water filtering device that will elimate all the chemicals that come out of your tap then go nutz do 90% waterchanges


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

sawman88 said:


> it will do no harm? what about adding too much chemicals from the tap water? chlorine floride and all the other crap thats in city water. i guess if your on a well and or you have some crazy water filtering device that will elimate all the chemicals that come out of your tap then go nutz do 90% waterchanges


Doing large water changes is never problematic. Any chlorine/chloramine that is present should be neutralized by the appropriate water conditioner. The amount of fluoride added to water is negligible and I haven't seen any ill effects on fish due to the amount of fluoride present in city water.


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## Canadiancray (Apr 27, 2006)

sawman88 said:


> it will do no harm? what about adding too much chemicals from the tap water? chlorine floride and all the other crap thats in city water. i guess if your on a well and or you have some crazy water filtering device that will elimate all the chemicals that come out of your tap then go nutz do 90% waterchanges


I remember when I thought like that!!!! LOL. Most people who have been doing this for decades & have 30+ tanks running no longer worry about that stuff. I had an entire fish room full of tanks that got straight tap water for YEARS & I had fewer problems with my fish than other who spent hours prepping the water. Although I am spoiled being in Burlington. Even still though you could do 90-100% water changes to your tanks & as long as the temp & water parameters didn't fluctuate much the fish & tank wouldn't even notice.


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## sawman88 (Sep 29, 2008)

well then.. maybe im wrong.. i was allways told that the most you could do is a 50% water change becuse the water needed time to cycle and fight off the chemicals and such. that being said then.. if you had a filter that was allready filled with bacteria you could buy a tank fill it up get it to the right temp and toss fish in with out cycling?


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## Canadiancray (Apr 27, 2006)

You got it.


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## sawman88 (Sep 29, 2008)

crazy,. hey i see your fromt he burlington as? eh nice im from the LAS. are you going to the KWAS octobre fish? i MIGHT be going to the one in burlingtonn but im not sure. depends on how much i buy tomrrow.


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## Canadiancray (Apr 27, 2006)

What one in Burlington????


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## sawman88 (Sep 29, 2008)

humm nvm its the brantfords club  sorry


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## JamesG (Feb 27, 2007)

Canadiancray said:


> I remember when I thought like that!!!! LOL. Most people who have been doing this for decades & have 30+ tanks running no longer worry about that stuff. I had an entire fish room full of tanks that got straight tap water for YEARS & I had fewer problems with my fish than other who spent hours prepping the water. Although I am spoiled being in Burlington. Even still though you could do 90-100% water changes to your tanks & as long as the temp & water parameters didn't fluctuate much the fish & tank wouldn't even notice.


Couldn't agree more. My tanks have never seen a water conditioner and I think anyone on Toronto municipal water doesn't need them. Even my shrimp tanks get pure tap water and they breed like rabbit shrimp. To give you an idea of how your water may compare to mine, when I fill up a bucket under the tap the smell from the chlorine evaporating is noxious. Still, it does evaporate quickly and all my fish are problem free.


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## conix67 (Jul 27, 2008)

I would not use tap water without water conditioner. however, using python then adding the conditioner after water change is supposed to be safe. I have heard people using tap water without conditioner having disasters. 

Large water change is supposed to be safe as long as you keep the temperature close. Most of the beneficial bacteria lives in the filter materials and gravel.


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## Canadiancray (Apr 27, 2006)

If there are high levels of chlorine as in Toronto I wouldn't do straight tap water. I would prob at least let it age first. It really depends on the fish species & how much aeration there is in the tank.

Burlington is fine because our water treatment system is ozone based so the chlorine levels are almost nill.


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## Cory_Dad (Apr 18, 2008)

Couple of points:

1) In Toronto they add ammonia to the water in order to stabilize the chlorine (creating chloramine) so it doesn't dissipate as quickly into the air. So letting a bucket of water stand for a couple of hours doesn't help.

2) Depending on you plumbing, it's NOT a good idea to add hot tap water to the mix in order to regulate the temp., as the hot water could contain a lot more dissolved minerals, etc.

3) From personal experience I learned to always pretreat the water and let stand until it comes up to room temp. There's been a lot less crying since I started doing it that way.

4) It's your tank, do whatever the heck you feel comfortable doing. It's sometimes easier to go buy more fish than to be anal about all of this (at least that's what my wife tells me).

Just remember to have fun.

Cheers.


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## Cory (May 2, 2008)

I've done water changes using some variation of the python system in both London and here in Toronto. In London I'd use the python to both drain and fill the tanks. I always added dechlorinator and tried to match the temperature as closely as I could to the temperature of my tanks.

Here in Toronto, with substantially more tanks (over 20 at the moment) I use a pump to drain the water to avoid using excessive amounts of water to drain my tanks and then use the python straight from the sink to refill the tanks. I always use a dechlorinator capable of handling chloramine and rely on my biological filtration to neutralize the ammonia released when the chemical bonds between the chlorine and ammonia are broken. 

It is true that dissolved minerals can be leeched out of your pipes with warmer water, especially in older homes, but if you have many tanks as I do aging buckets of water would be highly impractical so you have to do what you can. The plus side is that most dechlorinators are also formulated to dissolve harsh and heavy metals from your water so part of what might come out of your pipes will be neutralized. 

I used to work for someone doing tank maintenance, and he would NOT use dechlorinator to treat the tap water he added to the customers' tanks. While I cannot say for certain that this was the cause of the problem, nearly all of his customers had fish dying on a perpetual basis and many of the fish ended up having their growth stunted or would end up in really rough shape. 

I would always recommend using dechlorinator, especially if you're filling straight from the tap. As mentioned above, aging water is not a guaranteed method, especially in Toronto and as such cannot really be relied upon. If you have a water treatment scheme like they do in Burlington (first I've heard of it, I wonder if the water tastes different lol) then perhaps you can get around using the dechlorinator but I wouldn't risk it here in Toronto. You might be ok the first hundred times doing it but you are undoubtedly doing some harm to your fish by dosing them with toxic chlorine or chloramine.


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## KhuliLoachFan (Mar 8, 2008)

Water columns (the water in the tank) don't contain the majority of the bacteria that are created when a tank 'cycles'. It's the filter sponge and filter biomedia that contains most of your biogoodness. Thus doing a 100% water change is not going to destroy anyone's biofilter.

I believe that the reason usually stated for "not doing 100% changes" are that radical shifts in pH and from stale pollutant-logged chemistry to fresh new water chemistry are stressful. (One editor of a fishing magazine calls this kind of thing 'osmotic stress'.) This is not a lightweight expressing his opinion, but nevertheless, it's not like he's infallible either.

That being said, the "25%" thing sounds like a reasonable newbie-rule-of-thumb, but it's not a hard and fast rule. I heard a guy who runs a fish store recommend using "some used water" from an established tank, to allow for "instant cycling" where you buy the fish, the new tank and set it all up the same day. I wondered what planet he was from, and why he gave such (IMHO) silly advice. I would always tell them to get some used filter media or solids (mulm) from an established tank. In fact it seems to me that "guck" could be something you give the people who buy fish from you. Kind of a little service. I wonder why thats never caught on.

But this is a hobby, not exactly a science, and the advice you get varies, and is not always going to be consistent.

W


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## crawdaddy (Nov 2, 2008)

In my house the tap is lower than my tanks. So gravity takes over with out wasting water to get a good suction, I don't run the water out of the tap when I vacuum, as they recommend.
To start, I attach the "T" to the tap, close the bottom, and run water to push out the air, once water comes out the other end, I turn off the water and close the valve at the large tube end.
Stick end in tank, open valve and at the tap end I open the bottom of "T".
Sometimes I have to turn on the tap full to start the suction, a few sec at the most. Then turn off tap.
Filling the tank, I know what position the handle needs to be at, to get the same temp as in the tank. As the tank is filling I add "prime"
Done 30min for 125g


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## KevD (Mar 2, 2008)

I remove water and detritus with a Python. I then use Toronto tap water run through a 5 stage filtration unit (before the water comes in contact with the RO membrane and post filter.) No chemicals or water conditioners required and just needs to be heated. I'm still a bucket guy


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## KnaveTO (May 13, 2007)

I use the python to both clean and fill my tanks. Usually I add about 50% of a full tank capacity of water conditioner to the aquarium. However I have frequently done top offs with just pure water out of the tap and so far I have had no ill effects to my fish or plants. Water placed into the tank should always be a tad cooler than what is currently in the tank.


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

I use a tap water filter (one of them brita type things), but I'm not totally convinced it does a whole lot besides make me feel better about the whole thing.

I fill buckets. I am old school. Although, it does take 20 minutes to do a 40% WC on a 75g tank...

As for the size of WCs, like KLF said earlier, the larger the change (volume and parameter), the greater the stress. And the osmotic shock? It's very real, and it kills.

And the pythons? Handy I suppose, but I like my old 1/2" ID tubing and 6g bucket, thank you very much.



KhuliLoachFan said:


> But this is a hobby, not exactly a science, and the advice you get varies, and is not always going to be consistent.
> W


Sums it up. Minus the science part. There's a load of science that goes into many things. Most people just choose to be blissfully ignorant of it.


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## Calmer (Mar 9, 2008)

I use a 121L garbage can and pump the water to the tanks with a 50' non mildew resistant garden hose. I drain the tanks and fill the garbage can also with the same hose. Luckily I have a basement in which to do all this. I find with making water changes in large tanks easier that I will do it more often.


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## Mr Fishies (Sep 21, 2007)

Best investment I made in making maintenance life easier for water changes was a Rubbermaid Brute trash can (~$20) and the 5 wheel dolly (~$35) it sits/screws onto. I can wheel a few hundred pounds of water up to whatever tank I need to work on. A pump & 1/2 hose do the rest. Compared to slugging 4-5 buckets of water to the tank to fill, it's pure luxury.

Like Calmer, I'm in a basement. The floor drain is about 12 feet from my farthest tank for outgoing water - but all my stands are heavily shimmed to account for the slope in the floor in this area.


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## baboo_jenge (Sep 26, 2008)

Doing 90% IS problometic with some fish.

Neons will start dropping if you do water change like that using water straight from the tap.
Other speices, on the other hand, have no problem with 100% change.


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## BillD (Jun 5, 2006)

KnaveTO said:


> Water placed into the tank should always be a tad cooler than what is currently in the tank.


What are you basing that on? I always add water that is warmer, as it seems less likely to cause temperature shock.


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## KevD (Mar 2, 2008)

If you think about precipitation falling in the tropics where most fish we encounter originally come from, it tends to be cooler than the body of water they live in.


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## KnaveTO (May 13, 2007)

KevD said:


> If you think about precipitation falling in the tropics where most fish we encounter originally come from, it tends to be cooler than the body of water they live in.


Exactly. Precipitation is almost always cooler than the ambient temperature of the fixed water source. Remember water falls to the earth traditionally from a height of at least 1000 feet above ground level if not much heigher. Temperature decreases as you increase in height and thus is cooler than the ambient temperature of the ground.


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