# Another "tank Manufacturers" question



## bluface

Is Miracles worth the money compared to say, NAFB? Miracles will only make the rear glass tempered where as John from NAFB suggests it's not necessary. Just two differing opinions with one costing more than the other.

Thanks in advance!


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## davebradley

You don't need the rear tempered. 


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## Harry Muscle

davebradley said:


> You don't need the rear tempered.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If you're not drilling the back then that's correct. If you are drilling, then it depends where the holes will be whether tempering is needed or not. Or you can go with thicker glass and then you won't need tempering either.

Thanks,
Harry


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## bluface

*tank*

thanks for the replies. There will be two 1 1/2" holes and two 1" for return. NAFB says not required even at 1/2" glass. Miracles says it is at 5/8".
When tempered glass shatters nothing is ever left of the glass.


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## davebradley

I drilled three 1 3/4" holes in mine for 1 1/2 bulkheads. And 2 for 3/4" bulkheads. 1/2" glass. Had no issues whatsoever. 


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## bluface

*tank*



davebradley said:


> I drilled three 1 3/4" holes in mine for 1 1/2 bulkheads. And 2 for 3/4" bulkheads. 1/2" glass. Had no issues whatsoever.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


How big was your tank?


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## Yellowtang

*Tank Manufacturers*

I recently purchased a tank made by Miracles in which I had two holes drilled in the back of the tank acting as my returns. I am very pleased with the workmanship and construction of the tank. I had the back glass of the tank blackened out and the other three sides were made of starphire glass. I looked at NAFB and Miracles, I chose Miracles but this was my preference, John makes good tanks as well. I actually had a tour of Miracles and saw how their tanks were manufactured.


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## davebradley

bluface said:


> How big was your tank?


200gal. 48x36x27

I personally like miracles tanks. I know a few guys that have custom tanks from them. They stand behind their warranty too.

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## sig

bluface said:


> Is Miracles worth the money compared to say, NAFB? Miracles will only make the rear glass tempered where as John from NAFB suggests it's not necessary. Just two differing opinions with one costing more than the other.
> 
> Thanks in advance!


who told you so?

NAFB silicon and overall quality is not comparable with Miracles.

Miracles do not do tempering itself. They drill holes and send panel for tempering

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## Y2KGT

sig said:


> NAFB silicon and overall quality is not comparable with Miracles.
> 
> Miracles do not do tempering itself. They drill holes and send panel for tempering


Agree 100%.

Miracles builds the best quality tanks I've ever seen. I have a 65, a 90 and a custom made 112.

All of the silicone is perfect even after 5 or 6 years of use.
--
Paul


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## Harry Muscle

Something to keep in mind is that the location of the holes also matters. If you stay away from the middle 2 feet (in a four foot tank ) you should be fine with the holes you mentioned in 1/2" glass. I just received my Miracles tank with 1/2" glass. I have a hole for 1 1/2" bulk head and two holes for 3/4" bulk heads. No tempering, but all the holes are in the left and right most 16" of the tank (60" tank). I was told that if I wanted the holes more towards the center I would need tempering.

Thanks,
Harry


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## fury165

sig said:


> Miracles do not do tempering itself. They drill holes and send panel for tempering


Oh great info Greg, I didn't realize that &#128077;&#127996;


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## sig

fury165 said:


> Oh great info Greg, I didn't realize that &#128077;&#127996;


That is what I was told, but I have no prove for it 

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## badmedicine

I can confirm that tempering of glass from Miracles is done in Toronto and shipped back to Orangeville.
I am having a tank built by Miracles and was told by Derek that was how it is done.


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## bluface

*tank*

So one thing that i failed to mention is the tank I decided on will be rimless.
48 X 30 X 21.
After a lengthy discussion with Derek at Miracles it makes sense to overdo a tank like this. I definitely don't like to do short cuts and will not happen here. 
I know I will be happier with a quality looking tank.

So now, the other question is, Starphire or not to starphire?

Thanks everyone for chiming in.


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## sig

bluface said:


> So one thing that i failed to mention is the tank I decided on will be rimless.
> 48 X 30 X 21.
> After a lengthy discussion with Derek at Miracles it makes sense to overdo a tank like this. I definitely don't like to do short cuts and will not happen here.
> I know I will be happier with a quality looking tank.
> 
> So now, the other question is, Starphire or not to starphire?
> 
> Thanks everyone for chiming in.


IMO. starphire is very scratchable and I personally think it is waste of money for SW tank.

I do not know how you planing to make overflows, bu I highly suggest to have tank Euro Braced. It could be around $100+, but it will make maintenance much easier - no splashes

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## bluface

sig said:


> IMO. starphire is very scratchable and I personally think it is waste of money for SW tank.
> 
> I do not know how you planing to make overflows, bu I highly suggest to have tank Euro Braced. It could be around $100+, but it will make maintenance much easier - no splashes


Thanks. The overflow will be in the rear centre. The water line will be 1 1/2 from the rim, which should minimize splashes. 
I love the rimless appearance. Not a big fan of Euro bracing. Very hard to clean under the brace.
I will forgo with the Starphire. I will spend the money elsewhere.
Thanks again , cheers!


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## davebradley

Miracles will also do an external overflow. This is how I would go. Set it up for bean animal. 


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## Dis

I would also do external overflow


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## bluface

*overflow*

definitely an external one. The tank will be 320 lbs! Really heavy for a relatively small tank! it will be 3/4" for the rear panel and 5/8 all around.
This will be built like a tank. Can't wait!


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## Addicted

Sounds like it will be a beautiful tank. Great dimensions too.


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## bluface

*tank*



Addicted said:


> Sounds like it will be a beautiful tank. Great dimensions too.


Yeah, I'm excited! thanks. Trying to not think about the cost!

Thanking everyone who chimed in. Really helped me make the decision.
I will be posting pics in two months. Cheers!!


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## davebradley

Can't wait. Be sure to tag me in it from the beginning so I don't miss it. 


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## bluface

*tank*



davebradley said:


> Can't wait. Be sure to tag me in it from the beginning so I don't miss it.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Will do for sure!


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## bluface

*tank*



Derek has been really busy lately! It was like pulling teeth to get this pic from him! 
Apparently I will see the tank this Tuesday!


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## Addicted

Beautiful tank.


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## davebradley

Awesome news. Looks great. 


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## bluface

Need to take some good pics!


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## Dis

Looks awesome. Also looks taller than 21"? Did you settle on 48x30x21?


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## Cichlidrookie

Super nice tank bluface glad it worked out for you.

What does the external overflow look like?
Did they include return line spray thing?

Thanks


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## duckhams

Looks amazing!


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## bluface

Dis said:


> Looks awesome. Also looks taller than 21"? Did you settle on 48x30x21?


Thanks
It is 21" Pics never really show true appearance.



Cichlidrookie said:


> Super nice tank bluface glad it worked out for you.
> Thanks
> 
> What does the external overflow look like?
> Did they include return line spray thing?
> 
> I installed the return nozzle. I will post more pics including the overfllow.
> 
> Thanks





duckhams said:


> Looks amazing!


Thanks.

Tank is not bad. Little dissappointed with the quality of the steel stand...


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## fesso clown

sweet tank! is that giesemann in the background going over it? what are your plans? better get a build thread started mate....


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## bluface

fesso clown said:


> sweet tank! is that giesemann in the background going over it? what are your plans? better get a build thread started mate....


Thanks! Yes a 24" Giesemann. There will be an AI Sol on each end. Combo Led, halide and T5s. Not sure how the fixtures will look beside each other. We wi see. I don't know that I will have the time to do a build thread. I'll just update this one from time to time.
Hey Jeff how's to Siporax working for you? My plan is to reduce LR on this new tank.


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## fesso clown

i have about 6-8L going in the sump for a couple months. I cant get a Nitrate reading at all and I feed tons of frozen every day so I think it's working, i have minimal LR in the DT too.


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## bluface

fesso clown said:


> i have about 6-8L going in the sump for a couple months. I cant get a Nitrate reading at all and I feed tons of frozen every day so I think it's working, i have minimal LR in the DT too.


Thanks. What do you do for Phosphate control?


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## fesso clown

I quit GFO about 6 months ago. I skim heavy, I have a 20 Gallon fuge with cheato that is fed by a lit screen (algea turf scrubber style) and I also have a 30G display Macro tank plumbed into my system, it's basically a giant algae scrubber its self. I guess I grow algae to control PO4 just not in the DT. I don't really measure it.... I have a hanna P04 checker (not the ultra low one) and it always reads 0..... always... I ran out of regents a while ago...


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## bluface

So how many of you guys actually filled the tank with tap water to test your plumbing after it's complete?. I just don't want to waste too much water. It's going to be 120 gallons!!


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## fesso clown

I filled my brand new tank with RODI to leak test. It passed. I then mixed salt into the system.... then I added the rock and then the sand.... that's how I did it.... worked for me. 
Adding the sand was a bit of a PITA but I did it scoop by scoop and it got really cloudy. I used filter floss in the sump until it cleared about 48 hours later.


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## goobafish

fesso clown said:


> I filled my brand new tank with RODI to leak test. It passed. I then mixed salt into the system.... then I added the rock and then the sand.... that's how I did it.... worked for me.
> Adding the sand was a bit of a PITA but I did it scoop by scoop and it got really cloudy. I used filter floss in the sump until it cleared about 48 hours later.


I did the same. Mixed the salt in the tank after the leak test.


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## bluface

In my case i am transferring over contents of a 93 gallon. I will only need another 30 gallon of new water.
As for the tank itself I can't see it leaking. It would be the plumbing that might spring tiny leaks where the bulkheads are which can be tightened.
Thanks


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## goobafish

I transferred the corals, fish and inverts from two tanks over. I started with fresh saltwater, dry rock, and dry substrate, and dipped everything before it went into the tank. So many pests accumulate after a couple years with live rock.


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## joffems

bluface said:


> In my case i am transferring over contents of a 93 gallon. I will only need another 30 gallon of new water.
> As for the tank itself I can't see it leaking. It would be the plumbing that might spring tiny leaks where the bulkheads are which can be tightened.
> Thanks


I fiilled the tank with RODI, had a leaking bulkhead and union which were easy to fix and then added salt.

When adding sand to the filled tank, I used a funnel with a leftover piece of 1.5" PVC to get the sand to the bottom of the tank. It worked really well and my tank was only cloudy for about 8 hours.


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## bluface

Thanks for all the hot tips. I will post more pics once the move over is complete. Lots of work!


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## bluface

*new tank finally set up!*

Been busy. Started the transfer Saturday. I can't believe It's not even complete yet!



Not really any noteworthy corals yet. But hopefully coming soon!









All of the wiring will be moved to this small cabinet under the tank. That should hide all the mess!


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## samiam

wow, that looks really good bluface! awsome dimensions, and clean sump!


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## Yellowtang

*Equipment*

Great looking system. The stand looks great and I like how you have access to all of your equipment. Good job!!!


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