# dwarf cichlids



## race22 (Apr 6, 2007)

I currently have a 20 gal fresh tank with mostly tetras. I also do have 1 German Blue Ram in there. Just wondering if there are other dwarf cichlids out there that have a max size of lets say 2" - 2.5" and non agressive


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## BillD (Jun 5, 2006)

There are a few, such as Nanacara species, and checkerboards, available from time to time.


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## Pablo (Mar 27, 2006)

In a 20 gallon youre maxed out for territories. You cant put other species in there.


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## nightowl1350 (Mar 19, 2006)

Some apistos are not that aggressive either. I have apisto Cacatoides (sp?) in with blue rams and they are fine. They chase their own mates with only minor squables between the males of different species. Neither has caused any torn fins or anything.


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## Pablo (Mar 27, 2006)

Not in a 20 gallon. Even if they didnt kill eachother, its just not enough territory for 2 pairs. The only way to counteract the territorialism would be to overcrowd the tank, which doesnt work either. 

You cant have more than one species of south american dwarf cichlid in a 20 gallon. P e r i o d. There's no way around it. Even though you may never see a torn fin, the physical stress itself just from being that close to an 'enemy fish' wears down on them and thats not good for them either.


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## race22 (Apr 6, 2007)

do they have to be in pairs?


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## Pablo (Mar 27, 2006)

No. You will however get more enjoyable and natural behaviour out of any fish if you put it in a natural situation.

One ram in a 20 gallon in tap water is not as fun to watch as

a pair of rams in a 20 gallon in water which has been altered to match their natural habitat, with some leaf litter etc.

The main thing with south american dwarf cichlids is that they stress easily, especially the delicate ones. You cant stress them out by putting fish in there that they will consider a threat. 

Even if you had a tank twice as big, you'd still be pushing it by putting another species of dwarf cichlid on the bottom, though something in another layer of water like angelfish would be ok in that situation.

Once you really know what you're doing certain exceptions can be made mixing fish that generally naturally come from the same area in large groups but even then its often a gamble.

For now, you can add one ram of the opposite sex. thats it.


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## race22 (Apr 6, 2007)

i really appreciate the advice pablo  so what you're saying is in regards to my 20 gal tank, i can't add let's say a pair of male cocatoids in my tank which already has 1 male blue ram? i was talking to a guy at Finatics and he said that it's ok to mix an apisto with a ram but don't mix different species of apistos. or would i my tank be too small to get a pair of cocatoids (males) and 1 more blue ram?


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## race22 (Apr 6, 2007)

oh and also in regards to my 20 gal again with 1 ram, can i add another male ram or does it have to be a female one? thanks for the help again as i am new to dwarf cichlids/apistos


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## race22 (Apr 6, 2007)

man! i'm trying to research all i can about the apistos and i keep getting different opinions. i need help sorting this out. i'm reading that it's ok to keep 2 males (cockatoo) together, then i'm reading you can't. then i'm reading the pair should be 1 male and 1 female. then i'm reading it can't be 1 male and 1 female cuz the male will harrass the female, it's better to have 2 females to 1 male. which is it?  again thanks to everyone with their advice, it's greatly appreciated


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## Pablo (Mar 27, 2006)

race22 said:


> i really appreciate the advice pablo  so what you're saying is in regards to my 20 gal tank, i can't add let's say a pair of male cocatoids in my tank which already has 1 male blue ram? i was talking to a guy at Finatics and he said that it's ok to mix an apisto with a ram but don't mix different species of apistos. or would i my tank be too small to get a pair of cocatoids (males) and 1 more blue ram?


DONT take anything that guy says seriously. He knows little actual practical info about south american species, if anything at all...

If you want good information about South American Cichlids, talk to me, Harold and/or Sedrick at Menagerie (416 921 4966), MacFish (on this forum), and Blair0 on www.cichlidforums.com


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## Pablo (Mar 27, 2006)

race22 said:


> oh and also in regards to my 20 gal again with 1 ram, can i add another male ram or does it have to be a female one? thanks for the help again as i am new to dwarf cichlids/apistos


If you have a male you should add a female. Again, the aggression between two males wouldn't be helping anyone.

Even with the pair you will experience some aggression from time to time. The key is to provide a plethora of hiding places and a lot of distractions, ie, several tetras swimming around to keep the rams attention from being on eachother all the time.

They appreciate the presence of several caves and planted areas, as well as large flat or slightly rounded clean stones to spawn on.


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## Pablo (Mar 27, 2006)

race22 said:


> man! i'm trying to research all i can about the apistos and i keep getting different opinions. i need help sorting this out. i'm reading that it's ok to keep 2 males (cockatoo) together, then i'm reading you can't. then i'm reading the pair should be 1 male and 1 female. then i'm reading it can't be 1 male and 1 female cuz the male will harrass the female, it's better to have 2 females to 1 male. which is it?  again thanks to everyone with their advice, it's greatly appreciated


Theres a lot of garbage advice out there.

With apistogramma, which are polygamous, you want one male to several females. You CAN keep males together, but this implies a much larger more thought out setup. Not to say they'll kill eachother, but the stress you're putting on the animal just isn't necessary.

On the other hand Mikrogeophagus (blue rams are in this genus) are a periodically monogamous species, in that they get together, are together for several months, split up, ignore eachother, fight a little, then get back together, and repeat. They will usually however have a favourite female/male that they keep going back to more than others, if others are present.

In your current situation all you can do is add one ram of the oposite sex, and do take your time finding something of good genetic quality. Most of whats out there is garbage.

Then if you have a few hundred bucks to kick around, set up one or two more tanks and try some different species out.

If you want to keep SEVERAL cichlids together in one tank, you might want to consider African Cichlids, particularly malawis, which are mostly easy to keep.

You could keep, in a 35 gallon, 3 male and 10 female peacocks, for example, or a whole mix of different species, whatever makes you happy. Colors are nicer too. (Note- Africans sap more money from your wallet than SA as they are just more expensive per fish on average)



















The second one there, Haplochromis species 44, is commonly available from private breeders locally and is $#**ing stunning as you can see... It would also bite the armor off a tank... So you need to pick fish, then make your tank in these cases.

A final warning about apistos- they're very fragile, and are something I would suggest for your third or fourth year of serious fishkeeping, AFTER you've mastered controlling water chemistry especially pH and hardness. Just MHO


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