# Netlea Soil buffering GH too low?



## jon021 (May 19, 2009)

Hey, I've been using the Netlea CRS soil for my tanks for some time and not having a lot of success breeding my shrimps. I know most people are using reconstituted r/o water with this soil, but I've just been using tap water. My tap comes out at 7.5 ph, gh 7, kh 3, with the soil my ph is 6.5, gh 3, kh 0-1. I started noticing that my shrimps were having any healthy molts and i was losing a lot of them - that's when i started to measure my GH levels and realized they were a bit too low. I've brought the gh levels up now with mineral supplements but i was wondering if anyone else using the Netlea soil has experienced the same problems with regards to their GH levels. Thanks.

Also wondering if people are having success breeding neos in this soil, my fire reds seem to always drop their eggs even though the params are good now.


----------



## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

Huh, I always thought CRS preferred low GH? However, I did lose a lot of shrimps when I was using RO + Tap and Netlea, so I wonder if you're on to something?


----------



## jon021 (May 19, 2009)

from what i've read and been told, the gh should be around 4-6 otherwise they have issues molting properly. I always found dead shrimp after finding a molt, since adding mineral supplements and bringing the gh back up to 5, i haven't lost shrimp since but they also aren't as active as they used to be so i'm afraid they may have possibly already suffered long term effects from the low gh


----------



## splur (May 11, 2011)

How long has your tank been established for?


----------



## jon021 (May 19, 2009)

the tank has been running for 10 months with the netlea, but has been running for a total of 2.5 years since i first got into shrimp.


----------



## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

jon021 said:


> from what i've read and been told, the gh should be around 4-6 otherwise they have issues molting properly. I always found dead shrimp after finding a molt, since adding mineral supplements and bringing the gh back up to 5, i haven't lost shrimp since but they also aren't as active as they used to be so i'm afraid they may have possibly already suffered long term effects from the low gh


Really? gH of 4-6? That sounds pretty high, especially since my tap water has a gH of 6. Does that mean we can just use tap water instead?


----------



## jon021 (May 19, 2009)

i've always been using tapwater for my shrimps, my first setup was with organic worm castings capped with regular black gravel - i got amazing results (from 12 crs to over 150within a couple months) but the soil ended up going anaerobic after a year and thats when i started to use active soils. First tried fluval and then netlea when it became available. Havent managed to replicate the success in breeding ever since. The problem with using tap right now is that although my gh comes out of the tap at 7, it drops to 3 which i believe was causing problems. I use the shirakura site as a reference when looking at water params http://www.shirakura-shop.de/en/usage.htm. It suggests a gh of atleast 5 so that what i'm aiming for now but the kh and ph of tap water are too high without active soils or cutting with r/o.


----------



## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

jon021 said:


> i've always been using tapwater for my shrimps, my first setup was with organic worm castings capped with regular black gravel - i got amazing results (from 12 crs to over 150within a couple months) but the soil ended up going anaerobic after a year and thats when i started to use active soils. First tried fluval and then netlea when it became available. Havent managed to replicate the success in breeding ever since. The problem with using tap right now is that although my gh comes out of the tap at 7, it drops to 3 which i believe was causing problems. I use the shirakura site as a reference when looking at water params http://www.shirakura-shop.de/en/usage.htm. It suggests a gh of atleast 5 so that what i'm aiming for now but the kh and ph of tap water are too high without active soils or cutting with r/o.


Did you ever find out why your gH drops? My community tank, using tap water and fluorite + gravel, actually sees an increase in gH, to 8 or 9!


----------



## jon021 (May 19, 2009)

I think the netlea is buffering the gh really low, thats why i'm wondering if anyone else is having the same issues with it. My 46 gallon and another 3.5 gallon tank i have maintain the gh at 7-8. I have another 10 gallon tank for my cbs and fire reds which has the netlea soil as well, and the gh is just as low so i'm pretty sure that its the netlea.


----------



## getochkn (Jul 10, 2011)

I am using it, 1 bag in a 20gal tank. I usually use RO water with Mosara Mineral Plus or Fluval Mineral Plus but sometimes some tap water if I'm out of RO. I don't water change much, don't check params a lot. I go by the shrimp, not what some number says. I have probably 40+ crystal babies and 30+ adult crystals and 20 snowball babies and 6 or 7 adult snowballs, no deaths in months, fresh molts yet TDS is 260 right now. Going by numbers that's too high and I should do like a 40% pure RO water change to get it in "optimal" crystal range but if I have berries, molts, babies, why should I bother obsessing over a number. My understanding is that as long as their is calcium in the food, they will get what they need to be able to molt properly and feeding a varied diet will give them what they need. I went through months of no breeding, deaths, etc obsessing over numbers, even setup a new tank and finally gave up and watched the shrimp and left them alone instead of changing all kinds of water when some number went up one.


----------



## Ebi-Ken (Jul 9, 2010)

I'm not using Netlea soil right now but I can tell you it wouldn't be the netlea soil thats the results of your deaths since it was cycled for 10 months. Even if your GH/KH is less than 4 your crystals will be fine. I've even kept cherries outdoors in totes with TDS 17 which virtually has no GH and KH and they are still fine. Rather the main concern maybe the tapwater your using. The tapwater you were using even 1 year ago isn't the same tapwater as now. The GH of your tapwater maybe 7 or 8 but what is actually in the tap water and how much of what chemicals is used would be different then getting RO water and adding minerals to obtain the same GH. Just an insight.


----------



## jon021 (May 19, 2009)

hey frank, thanks for your insight - i'll try just using RO water instead of tap, i have noticed that the ammonia levels and overall tds levels of the tap tend to fluctuate during different seasons. I'm hoping i can get my shrimp tank back to normal again and have my shrimps start breeding. I have a berried crs right now so i hope those eggs hatch and i can keep the shrimplets alive. Are there any specific parameters that you recommend i aim for?


----------



## Ebi-Ken (Jul 9, 2010)

jon021 said:


> hey frank, thanks for your insight - i'll try just using RO water instead of tap, i have noticed that the ammonia levels and overall tds levels of the tap tend to fluctuate during different seasons. I'm hoping i can get my shrimp tank back to normal again and have my shrimps start breeding. I have a berried crs right now so i hope those eggs hatch and i can keep the shrimplets alive. Are there any specific parameters that you recommend i aim for?


stable water params is all i have to and can say. If the param you have right now works for you. Stick to it


----------



## jon021 (May 19, 2009)

alright Frank, i understand lol. I'll be using r/o from now on and see if my shrimps improve. I've been keeping an eye on the gh since doing a water change with re-mineralized r/o water and its been staying stable so you're probably right about the tap water causing most of the issues.


----------



## Ebi-Ken (Jul 9, 2010)

jon021 said:


> alright Frank, i understand lol. I'll be using r/o from now on and see if my shrimps improve. I've been keeping an eye on the gh since doing a water change with re-mineralized r/o water and its been staying stable so you're probably right about the tap water causing most of the issues.


if you move on to using RO water you should try getting into the habit of testing TDS. You will find life alot easier.


----------



## jon021 (May 19, 2009)

yea i picked up a tds meter a while back. I justused it to measure the tds level of my water after remineralizing it and it was around 101 for a gh of 5. Saves me the trouble of constantly having to test the gh when preparing the water


----------



## getochkn (Jul 10, 2011)

Ebi-Ken said:


> stable water params is all i have to and can say. If the param you have right now works for you. Stick to it


That was the point of my post on page 1, if it works, go with it. I have babies all over now yet TDS is like 250, gH is 7 but they're happy. Do I bother doing huge WC's to get to get a low TDS and gH just because some site says, or go with the fact I have more babies now that I've ever had trying to follow the numbers before? I have several gen's of babies in there now, from A grade to some SS/SSS and some golden/snow whites. I'm not sure why my TDS crept up high, but I'm not mucking with it much as my goal is babies living and shrimp breeding, not keeping my gH at 4 or nothing.


----------



## jon021 (May 19, 2009)

hey getochkn, i've tried just letting my tank go and stop stressing over it so much but it didn't work out well, i lost alot of shrimps. I also tried doing the no water changes thing but my shrimps started dying as well. When it all happened I tested for everything even oxygen levels and everything was "good". I feed a variety of quality foods and don't have anything in the tank that could possibly be a source of problems so i was completely lost. Since adding minerals back into my water my shrimps seem to be doing alot better. No deaths and they're a bit more active. I have a berried shrimp so hopefully it'll be able to carry the eggs till maturity. Thanks for your advice and help, i'll try not to mess with the water too much for now


----------



## getochkn (Jul 10, 2011)

jon021 said:


> hey getochkn, i've tried just letting my tank go and stop stressing over it so much but it didn't work out well, i lost alot of shrimps. I also tried doing the no water changes thing but my shrimps started dying as well. When it all happened I tested for everything even oxygen levels and everything was "good". I feed a variety of quality foods and don't have anything in the tank that could possibly be a source of problems so i was completely lost. Since adding minerals back into my water my shrimps seem to be doing alot better. No deaths and they're a bit more active. I have a berried shrimp so hopefully it'll be able to carry the eggs till maturity. Thanks for your advice and help, i'll try not to mess with the water too much for now


They are picky creatures for being so small. lol. I understand though, I went 6 months with berry after berry and not a single baby living with my crystals. Now I just did a count and can count 29 just that I can see, so there is probably lots more hiding and I can see different sizes of them, more berried females, etc, so finally seems to have turned around and I guess its just finding what works for you and keep it going. There doesn't seem to be a magic formula that works 100% of the time. Switching to RO and adding back has helped a lot I think.


----------

