# Taking one for the team: Brought AI's Co2 set up.



## FlyingHellFish

After all the advice on Dual Stage DIY regulators and despite all warnings about cheap Chinese Co2 kits, I'm going to take one for the team and review their full Co2 set up.

Very helpful service despite the language barrier, I brought their full Co2 set up with the 5 lb cylinder tank.

I opted for the bigger regulator because the gauges are easier to read.

Everything is up and running and I'm steady at 1 bps with Mineral Oil used in the JBL bubble counter.

I'll post back my findings later but right now, it is in fact working as advertise.

I payed cash and received a hand written note, not sure how official this paper is as it just list the stuff I brought. Also, there is a 1 year warranty card from the company inside. The manual is in english which was a pleasant surprise.

Here are some pictures -


































My non Co2 tank in the background: DHG is from Coldmantis , great batch.
























Is the numbers right for a brand new 5lb tank? It is just recently set up.

Here is the result, I added a wooden chop stick (it's nice being asian sometimes) the wood works really well but I am going to grab some glass ceramic.









This is just a temporary tank with various plants.


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## iBetta

NICE. ive never used any pressurized system so know nothing about this lol. what do each of the gauges indicate? i'm assuming one's for how much C02 you have in the tank, but what about the other one? how much you're releasing? how can u tell u have 1 bbp with the gauges? u'd have to use a bubble counter right?

thanks!


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## FlyingHellFish

It's actually working pretty well, stable bubble rate with the cheap needle valve.

The bubbles go up the counter that is filled with Mineral Oil, my iphone 4 can't capture the bubbles too well. I have set it on 1-2 bps right now and it's stable.

The first gauge is the Co2 tank pressure, it's suppose to be 800 psi so I'm not sure why it's not. The tank is stamp and looks pretty nice, no scratches on the CGA320 or otherwise. 

Anyways, hopefully I'm still alive tomorrow to write my findings.


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## Darkblade48

iBetta said:


> NICE. ive never used any pressurized system so know nothing about this lol. what do each of the gauges indicate? i'm assuming one's for how much C02 you have in the tank, but what about the other one? how much you're releasing? how can u tell u have 1 bbp with the gauges? u'd have to use a bubble counter right?
> 
> thanks!


One gauge indicates the tank pressure, while the other indicates delivery pressure.



FlyingHellFish said:


> The first gauge is the Co2 tank pressure, it's suppose to be 800 psi so I'm not sure why it's not.


In the picture you posted, the tank pressure is at 800 PSI. You may want to lower the delivery pressure to about 30 PSI; it may allow even finer control of your CO2.



FlyingHellFish said:


> Anyways, hopefully I'm still alive tomorrow to write my findings.


Even if the tank empties, you'll be fine; you're not living in an airtight house 

On another note, the box indicates a "dual stage" regulator, but from your pictures, it is not a dual stage regulator.


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## FlyingHellFish

Yeah, they told me it was single stage, tho I figure as much. Not sure how I can set the pressure to 30, it's at 40 right now.

The solenoid gets hot but not extremely, you can keep your fingers on it. The heat is comparable to the side of a CFL light fixture, well maybe a bit hotter.


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## coldmantis

congrats, too bad the co2 tank is not silver like the pics on ai , and you can also lower the delivery pressure to 20psi it's not like you using one of those atomizers that required at least 30-40 psi to work.


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## Zebrapl3co

I would probably lower the pressure rate as well. Not sure how it happened, but I manage to crack 3 bubble counter before I realize that I set the pressure too high.
As for the regulator, is should be OK. 
You said you bought the tank as well? So did it came with CO2 inside or did you have to go some where else to refill it?
Part of the problem with Asian regulator and tank is that their head is of a different size than North America. So when you go to refill it, no one would accept your tank. Also, you may need to have your tank certified before they are willing to refill it for you. I think that was the major reason I stay away from those kit.

*Never pay again for live sex! | Hot girls doing naughty stuff for free! | Chat for free!*


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## Darkblade48

FlyingHellFish said:


> Yeah, they told me it was single stage, tho I figure as much. Not sure how I can set the pressure to 30, it's at 40 right now.


With most regulators, there should be an adjustment knob on the front (check my CO2 thread for a picture of my setup; you will see the large adjustment knob on the Victor regulator).

With cheaper regulators, instead of a knob, it may be a nut/screw that you can turn with a wrench/screwdriver. It may be under the DIA cap that is on the front of the regulator.

In addition, on cheap regulators, it is possible that the delivery pressure is set, and you cannot change it (these should be avoided).



FlyingHellFish said:


> The solenoid gets hot but not extremely, you can keep your fingers on it. The heat is comparable to the side of a CFL light fixture, well maybe a bit hotter.


This should be fine; keep an eye on it, however. Cheap solenoids can sometimes malfunction due to heat (I recall a batch of Parker solenoids that had this problem).



Zebrapl3co said:


> You said you bought the tank as well? So did it came with CO2 inside or did you have to go some where else to refill it?
> Part of the problem with Asian regulator and tank is that their head is of a different size than North America. So when you go to refill it, no one would accept your tank. Also, you may need to have your tank certified before they are willing to refill it for you. I think that was the major reason I stay away from those kit.


I am curious about this as well; was the CO2 cylinder included with the AI kit, or did you simply purchase it at Camcarb/Norwood?

Obviously, if it is the latter case, then the CO2 cylinder comes filled, and this also means that the AI regulator will have a CGA320 fitting (meaning it will fit North American CO2 cylinders).

If not, as Zebrapl3co mentioned, you will need to certify your cylinder, in addition to the refill cost (can be pricey).


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## coldmantis

I asked one of the staff from ai long ago before they even moved near pacific mall, they get their cylinders from camcarb and then resell it.


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## FlyingHellFish

The Co2 tank does have the standard north american thread.

I unplug the unit last night and this morning the working pressure is at 39 instead of 42. The high pressure hasn't moved. 

Is this normal?

The package also included a hexagon wrench but I don't know how to set the working pressure. I don't think the front of the unit turns, it's just their logo.


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## Darkblade48

FlyingHellFish said:


> I unplug the unit last night and this morning the working pressure is at 39 instead of 42. The high pressure hasn't moved.
> 
> Is this normal?


Ideally, no. However, you can probably expect a little drift with cheaper regulators. Nothing to be too worried about, but something to be aware of.



FlyingHellFish said:


> The package also included a hexagon wrench but I don't know how to set the working pressure. I don't think the front of the unit turns, it's just their logo.


If there is an Allen key, then there is a nut that you can turn to adjust the delivery pressure. As I mentioned, it is likely under the DIA logo (it should be a plastic cap that can be pried off with a flat head screwdriver).

Please consult these following images:


Part 4 indicates the adjustment screw.

Here is another CO2 regulator showing the adjustment screw.


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## matti2uude

Does the hex wrench fit over the logo? It looks like a hex nut on the body of the regulator. 


Sent from my iPhone 4S using Tapatalk


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## FlyingHellFish

@ Dark, hey I really appreciate all the help. 

The top of the unit, with the logo, doesn't seem to come off easy. It does have the same wrench design but I should really remove it from the cylinder before I try changing the working pressure.

Is there any danger of having it set at 40? The unit is not at 39, looking closer it's a bit over 40 and it was at 42 when on. 

I got it stable at 1 bps yesterday for a few hours, then I up it to 2 bps. With all the talk about cheap needle valves, this one is pretty stable. How long does it usually take for the rate to change? I have read reports that within a week, people would have to readjust the needle valve to maintain the rate.

I guess it's too early to tell. My plants don't pearl tho? I have high flow in the temporary tank that I'm testing this unit on. Just some water sprite and dhg and Hygrophila corymbosa 'Siamensis'.


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## coldmantis

do this don't use the solenoid for now and run it 24/7 the bubble rate should never really drift once it has been set, if it's drifting you might have a leak or the needle valve sucks. I know for me using a solenoid it takes the bubble count a while to stabilize what I set it too because of the build up of water in the diffuser and tubing and also buildup in the regulator while the solenoid is off.


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## FlyingHellFish

What you mean? If the solenoid is not on, everything just stops. I did the soap water test and couldn't find any bubbles.

Do you mean, take the solenoid off? Then run it?

I called into AI and despite the wrench they said it is not adjustable, so I guess I'm stuck at 40. 

It's still stable from what I can see, kind of weird how they would include a wrench in the foam. It wasn't like they just toss it in the bag, there is a foam cut out of the wrench within the box. The manual is covering that part in my pic. 

Hey, Jim for the ph Checker, is it just 5 drops in the checker and some aquarium water? What about the ph solution from the APA test kit? Or is that for home made solutions? 

PS - Get some more DHG dammit, I need more.


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## coldmantis

sorry my mistake, what I mean is that if your running the solenoid on a timer set it on 24/7 so that it's never off, as for the drop checker question, just use like 4-5 drops of api ph test kit and I don't remember if I sold you 4dkh solution or not but don't use aquarium water.


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## matti2uude

coldmantis said:


> sorry my mistake, what I mean is that if your running the solenoid on a timer set it on 24/7 so that it's never off, as for the drop checker question, just use like 4-5 drops of api ph test kit and I don't remember if I sold you 4dkh solution or not but don't use aquarium water.


What's the point in having a solenoid if you never turn it off?

Sent from my iPhone 4S using Tapatalk


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## FlyingHellFish

No it doesn't drift, been running since this morning.

So this 4 K solution is kind of tricky, I don't even have baking soda around. 

Turns out I can't use aquarium water because of all the ph buffers (phosphate etc), would it be extremely inaccurate with aquarium water? 

I was thinking either using tap water or aquarium water for now till I grab some baking soda.


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## coldmantis

matti2uude said:


> What's the point in having a solenoid if you never turn it off?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone 4S using Tapatalk


so for testing purposes, I thought maybe there is a leak from the regulator to the solenoid before it goes to the needle valve, if you leave it on 24/7 and the bubble rate fluctuates, you know you have a leak.


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## FlyingHellFish

There might be, the working pressure is back up to 42. 

When it's on for the day it's 42, when it's off at night, I find it at 39 in the morning. 
Co2 tank pressure has not moved and is exactly the same at 800 psi. 

Plants are pearling but I really want to make sure this thing is completely sealed.

EDIT: I did change the needle valve setting recently tho. I'll leave it on the same setting for a day and look again. I been told it takes some time for adjustments to show.


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## FlyingHellFish

Update:

Day 3

The working pressure no longer moves and it stays at 40, I had the flow stable at 1 bps for the entire day. 

I also found out that the top of the regulator (logo) can be remove to adjust the factory settings of 40 but I'm happy with what it does now. 

There is a little groove where you can pry open with a knife. I think there is 4 of them around the top. 

I'm going to raise it up to 2 bps and see how it does with that setting, hopefully my ph drop checker is not yellow. 

Questions: 
Does anyone know if you could remove the sticker on the tank? Will they still refill it? I don't want an exchange because the tank looks pretty nice compare to the other ones they had.


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## Darkblade48

FlyingHellFish said:


> Update:
> 
> Day 3
> 
> The working pressure no longer moves and it stays at 40, I had the flow stable at 1 bps for the entire day.


You should be fine; just keep an eye on the bubble rate. As mentioned, if you are not turning on/off the CO2 and intend to keep it on 24/7, the solenoid is extraneous. 



FlyingHellFish said:


> I also found out that the top of the regulator (logo) can be remove to adjust the factory settings of 40 but I'm happy with what it does now.


As I suspected, it should be adjustable if it came with an Allen key 



FlyingHellFish said:


> I'm going to raise it up to 2 bps and see how it does with that setting, hopefully my ph drop checker is not yellow.


As mentioned, you should just use 4-5 drops of bromothymol blue with 4 dkH water in your drop checker; if the colour is too difficult to see, adding more drops of bromothymol blue is fine too. You should not use aquarium, tap, or distilled water.



FlyingHellFish said:


> Questions:
> Does anyone know if you could remove the sticker on the tank? Will they still refill it? I don't want an exchange because the tank looks pretty nice compare to the other ones they had.


I would not remove the sticker; I believe they require it for certification, etc.

If you don't want to exchange the cylinder, I believe you can ask them to refill it on the spot for you (if you don't mind waiting a bit). However, when it comes time to re-certifying the cylinder, if you don't want to take an exchange, you may have to wait (awhile).


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## FlyingHellFish

Never got around to picking up a timer, just been unplugging and plugging.

I found out why my high pressure gauge was moving, it was my room temperature. 

Working pressure is still stable, did the soapy water test again just to make sure and I think its pretty solid. I can finally relax and let it do it's thing.


I still recommend buying an AquaTek if you can avoid customs and you don't mind the brass colour. 

I got major pearling with 2bps so I dial it back down to 1bps as the ph checker was light green. I'm trying to avoid the initial onslaught of algae by limiting my fertilizers. Some say it doesn't matter but I find it's helpful in my tanks.

@ Dark - Didn't realize about the certification Co2 tanks need, is it possible to exchange a steel (one I have) to an aluminium one? They are far less heavy and do look better in my opinion.


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## coldmantis

I would leave it a 2bps if your plants are pearling, you want your drop check to be lime green, and don't forget drop checkers are not the final answer look at your fish if they are not gasping for air your bubble rate is fine. If you keep playing around with your bubble rate going from 1bps to 2bps your going to get BBA. Just a thought.


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## Darkblade48

FlyingHellFish said:


> Never got around to picking up a timer, just been unplugging and plugging.


A cheap timer from the hardware store will save you this hassle 



FlyingHellFish said:


> @ Dark - Didn't realize about the certification Co2 tanks need, is it possible to exchange a steel (one I have) to an aluminium one? They are far less heavy and do look better in my opinion.


It depends on which company you go to. Norwood will usually just exchange your cylinder unless you specifically ask for an aluminum one (and they have one in stock).


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## FlyingHellFish

Update : 1 week , couple days later.

Trouble in paradise you say? No, can't be!

Well, the solenoid got loose from the top manifold. It didn't leak and the bps was still stable but I can see that each needle valve change moved the whole piece.

After messaging some people, it turn out that the bottom screw might be loose. Oh it was loose alright, the bottom black twist knob just kelp turning without any firm connection to the push rod.

So, today I went to AI and told them about it. After a few times explaining that solenoids are not suppose to move like that, they took apart three regulators solenoid and tried to replace the black twist knob. I was about to explain that it was the push rod but I just let them do their thing.

After their table was flooded with open box regulators, they finally replace the whole solenoid and rod.

It is firmly in place as it should be. I don't know what to rate this product. I'm seriously thinking of getting a new solenoid and needle valve - any recommendations?

Also, I was told that the regulator came with a built in washer as seen from this picture: The box also came with a rubber washer that I used, they told me not to use the washer and to just connect the regulator to the Co2 tank.

What do you guys think?









Special thanks and shout out to DarkBlade for being so helpful. Thanks buddy.


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## Darkblade48

FlyingHellFish said:


> It is firmly in place as it should be. I don't know what to rate this product. I'm seriously thinking of getting a new solenoid and needle valve - any recommendations?


You have several options; Parker solenoids are cheap, and work, if you can find them on eBay. The Clippard solenoid is not bad, but gets a bit warmer than other solenoids. It has a red LED to indicate when it is powered, which could be useful. The Burkert solenoids run cooler than the Clippard, but do not have the red LED. They, however, have received good reviews from people.

In any case, you may need to wire the solenoid yourself (not that difficult if you have some spade connectors, shrink tubing, and electrical tape). If you feel uncomfortable doing this, get an electrician to do this, or spend a bit more for the pre-wired solenoid.

For the needle valve, as mentioned, the Fabco NV-55 is a good one to start off with, and is readily available. If you are patient, you may be able to find good Swagelok metering valves on eBay.



FlyingHellFish said:


> Also, I was told that the regulator came with a built in washer as seen from this picture: The box also came with a rubber washer that I used, they told me not to use the washer and to just connect the regulator to the Co2 tank.


That washer might be the nylon washer that normally goes between the CO2 cylinder and the regulator. It is supposed to be changed everytime you disconnect the regulator from the CO2 cylinder, as the nylon washer compresses to form a tight seal between the two.

I am not sure what the rubber washer is; if you could provide a picture...



FlyingHellFish said:


> Special thanks and shout out to DarkBlade for being so helpful. Thanks buddy.


You are welcome


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## FlyingHellFish

The nylon washer inside the regulator is suppose to be removed? I haven't done anything yet but I don't think there a way to remove that thing.

The box came with this rubber washer as well, I think it expand in size. So, do I just go to Home Depot and grab some nylon washer or plastic ones? There is also metal ones but I'm guessing those should be avoid.


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## FlyingHellFish

Well I went to home depot and they sold me a black O-ring. I'm guessing this is not the same thing.

Beside camcarb and norwood, is there another place one can get these devilishly hard to find rubber looking O-rings?


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## charlie1

Is there a leak from the connection with either the installed seal or the rubber washer?
If there is no leak , why are you stressing about getting a new seal.
Regards
P.S.
I have a guy in our club using one , i`ll ask him how his is connected.


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## FlyingHellFish

^ That would be great Charlie....


Well I got good news and bad news ...... 

Bad news:

After testing the system for leaks and leaving it on for 24/7, everything seem fine with both gauges not moving and I thought I was in the clear.

So I unplug the solenoid and went to bed expecting the bps to stop usually after 20 mins or so. 

I woke up this morning to find all of my Lamp Eyes (also brought at AI) to be gasping for air with a few of them half dead on the bottom.

The Co2 was STILL going strong, ironically stable at 1 bps. I did a water change and added an air stone.

Lamp Eyes are doing well, all are swimming around and their colour is coming back. 

Good News:

After some googling I came to a post about purging the solenoid of debris. There was a post about I/O connections getting mix up but I figure I'll try to purge the thing first. 

Unplug Solenoid, remove bubble counter, up the working pressure (mine was factory set at 40 anyways) and plug in and out the solenoid to blast any dirt.

It worked, so I'm crossing my fingers to getting this system back and running stable. Mid term going to come up soon so I really don't want to deal with this.


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## coldmantis

your fish is gasping for air at only 1 bubble per second? can't be what colour was your drop checker? and how big is your tank I run 1 bubble per second on a 5 gallon and my fish is fine with the drop checker lime green borderline yellow.


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## FlyingHellFish

Yeah man, 1 bps.

It's an Edge 6 gallon, top is covered with glass and AquaClear 20 on low with little water breaking the surface.

A full night of 1 bps can do wonders when there no water movement, especially on a 6 gallon. 

I been using a chop stick as a diffuser so I don't get much out of 1 bps, this is a test tank until I put the system on my Edge 12 gallon. 

Anyways, they're all back to normal but man they should be dead. 

My working pressure is up to 50 for some reason and it goes down to 40 when the solenoid is on. Maybe it takes some time to stabilize. My drop checker was lime green last night, turn into yellow in the morning when this shit happen. 

This is just my opinion and my experience with the system, if I can save someone the hassle and some money, it will be all worth it. I'm really trying not to bash AI, I know there is a lot of fans out there. 

Coldmantis, you ever deal with AI?


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## coldmantis

I have bought from ai many times, I like the store and the sales staff as for the quality of the products I can only speak from my experience:

bought ada I - returned for ada II because it didn't lower my ph
ada II - same as ada I didn't lower my ph got a credit
needle valve - was not silver like on their website but brass and looks used, return next day because it suck a$$
gf bought me the 30cm cube and the hang on back mini canister filter - happy
bought 3-4 steel prefilters - cheaply made all of them comes apart when you take it out from the in pipe of the canister filter
plants - happy they have good rare selection prices are decent cheaper then lucky's
clip on small light fixture - cheaply made fell in tank 4 times not screw in properly from manufacturer had to take it apart and tighten the screws.
netlae plant soil 2 bags - very happy and might buy another bag for no reason 
14.5g japanese curve tank - happy
their customer service and return is top notch and no hassles

I will still shop there in the future, they always have new plants when I go there and I love to admire their planted tanks those guys have mad aquascaping skills.


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## FlyingHellFish

Thanks for the review Coldmantis, 

I also agree that they have beautiful tanks but we're talking about their products. Within a niche market such as this, independent business must develop a strong relationship with their customers.

As for the unit, I did some more leak test last night. Numbers were still good this morning.


There a weird issue with working pressure I'm not quite about. My working pressure climbs up to 60 psi when the solenoid is unplugged but goes back to 40-42 when the solenoid is on. I been told that a raise in working pressure is common for the "off hours" of the system but is there any danger of this change?


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## coldmantis

60psi from 40 is quite a difference, I think when my solenoid is off my pressure is +/-3 nothing more then that.


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## FlyingHellFish

God damn, what going on with this thing?


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## coldmantis

try lowering the psi to 20 first before you decide to do anything, I only have 1 out of 4 setups set at 40psi but the one with 40psi I don't have a solenoid so I don't know if there is a big fluctuation of psi when the solenoid is off I don't think though, worst comes to worst you return the regulator go to big al's price match jlaquatics milwalkie regulator with them and use that one instead I believe but don't quote me the milwalkie has a knob to adjust the delivery pressure


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## FlyingHellFish

Appreciate the advice good sir, 

My regulator is factory set and the cap at the front isn't easily removed. I asked around and it is normal for the working pressure to raise when the solenoid is off but by 20 is a mighty big jump.

Unfortunately, I doubt AI will give me a cash refund. I think their policy is exchange only, but it won't matter because I'm sure the next unit will have the same problem.

I was told to wait it out a bit and to not change the needle valve setting. It's at 1 bps stable right now @ 40 - 42 psi (can't really tell)

One time I notice that happens over and over again is if I set the needle valve to a higher bps - the working pressure drops like a stone. At 5 bps, it goes down to 20 - 30 psi.

On the bright side, the tank pressure is stable at 800 psi. 


 *Finger cross, maybe tomorrow it will magically all work.


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## coldmantis

well personally this is what I do when I first set it up

adjust the delivery pressure to 20psi
adjust the needle valve to the bubble rate I want
leave it alone for 5 minutes and then come back to see if it's still at 20psi, most of the time it's not varies by -/+3 adjust again to 20 psi
leave alone for another 5 minutes and it's usually stable at 20psi, adjust needle valve again
come back in 5 and everything is as it was
when the tank is running low the psi will change so adjust it back to 20psi
when tank is empty and after refill I just plug in adjust to 20psi wait 5 minutes come back and check, adjust as needed no adjustment of the needle valve is required and that's it for a few months, then repeat.


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## coldmantis

if anyone is a penny pincher and wants one of these and would like to save a couple of bucks

69.99 @ ai

104.99 @ ai

104.99 @ ai


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## FlyingHellFish

Yeah, I saw those too. There is a few users on evilbay with the same listing.


Can someone answer me a few Questions:

1. If working pressure raises up when the solenoid is off but drops when it's on, what is going on?

2. What is that rubber gasket used for and what is the correct nylon washer's id?

3. ?????


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## coldmantis

1. If working pressure raises up when the solenoid is off but drops when it's on, what is going on?
fluctuation in psi when the solenoid is off cause gas buildup which is normal you going from 40 to 60 is not normal

don't know the answer to the other questions.


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## FlyingHellFish

I always hear of great deals on dual regulators on EBAY, it's the same old story of "I scored a 30 dollar Victor YAY" but I'll be damn if I can find one that isn't label as " Never tested " and " Sold as is " with " No return " combined with a nice sprinkle of " I don't know if this shit works or not ".


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## Darkblade48

FlyingHellFish said:


> 2. What is that rubber gasket used for and what is the correct nylon washer's id?


There should only be a nylon washer between the CO2 cylinder and the regulator; I have never seen a rubber gasket used.

The nylon washer seals as the two are screwed together; as it compresses, and nylon does not revert back to its original shape, it is recommended that they be replaced everytime you take the regulator off your cylinder.

Alternatively, you could purchase a perma-seal.



FlyingHellFish said:


> I always hear of great deals on dual regulators on EBAY, it's the same old story of "I scored a 30 dollar Victor YAY" but I'll be damn if I can find one that isn't label as " Never tested " and " Sold as is " with " No return " combined with a nice sprinkle of " I don't know if this shit works or not ".


A quick search revealed a decent Victor dual stage regulator for $20.51 + shipping ($12). 

Also, $30 Victors are rare; expect them to be around $50. I did see a decent single stage Matheson on eBay for $30, though.


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## charlie1

Darkblade48 said:


> There should only be a nylon washer between the CO2 cylinder and the regulator; I have never seen a rubber gasket used.
> 
> The nylon washer seals as the two are screwed together; as it compresses, and nylon does not revert back to its original shape, it is recommended that they be replaced everytime you take the regulator off your cylinder.
> 
> Alternatively, you could purchase a perma-seal.
> 
> *A quick search revealed a decent Victor dual stage regulator for $20.51 + shipping ($12). *
> Also, $30 Victors are rare; expect them to be around $50. I did see a decent single stage Matheson on eBay for $30, though.


Take it & run, cause if i find that deal it`s a goner


send me the link Darkblade , i could not find it


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## bigfishy

Darkblade48 said:


> A quick search revealed a decent Victor dual stage regulator for $20.51 + shipping ($12).
> 
> Also, $30 Victors are rare; expect them to be around $50. I did see a decent single stage Matheson on eBay for $30, though.


send me a link too!



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

If possible, ajust the front pressure screw just as darkblade suggested. I kind of fixed my leaking issue by adjusting that


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## FlyingHellFish

There is no front pressure screw, it's not adjustable. 

The plastic on the side of the solenoid is bent inwards because of the heat.


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## bigfishy

If your thinking of dropping more money on a regulator & solenoid, why not get this one instead?

http://gtaaquaria.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32099

$150 is pretty good deal and you can sell off your 5lbs tank


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## coldmantis

bigfishy said:


> If your thinking of dropping more money on a regulator & solenoid, why not get this one instead?
> 
> http://gtaaquaria.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32099
> 
> $150 is pretty good deal and you can sell off your 5lbs tank


Or keep both and start another tank


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## FlyingHellFish

Nope nope nope, unless the regulator is sold by itself for a good price.


If I was going to get something new, I going go DIY. I can't stand another complete set that might pose problems. I'm sure the seller's items are in great condition but I got the itch for a DIY.

I'm going to try to get a refund tomorrow, I don't want another one of these DC Regulators. Exchanging them does not solve the under lying problem when the issue is with the build quality not a defect. 

Kind of funny and ironic but I end up on a chinese aquarium forum that had the company (DICI) answering questions. Thanks to google's translator I was able to read that the "Creeping Outlet" pressure is a common occurrence. 

Is it too much to ask for a full refund? I even left the protective covers on the two gauges and added electric tape on the nut to prevent scratches. 

I can understand if the product does what it's suppose to do but there just too many unknown variables. I can't leave this thing on when I go out and I can't sleep knowing the solenoid might not shut off. 

Now, good sir, I ask you again. Is it too much to ask for a full refund? 


Wish me luck tomorrow guys.


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## charlie1

Not knocking any product, but there is a reason some equipment cost more.
I`m sure you have taken away a learning experience from this.


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## FlyingHellFish

Hey, attempted a refund after work today and after much arguing they said they going to call the manufacture. They wanted to ask them if working pressure going from 20 to 100 psi is normal in a pre-set regulator. Much respect to Alex for remaining calm and actually trying to resolve the problem. Their main argument was only "I" thought they were unsafe, I gave them several reasons and sources to look up. I even mention that the poorly translated MANUAL from the product states this. I even argued with them that working pressure does raise but not from 20 to 100 like Charlie's friend.

Charlie's friend brought the smaller regulator and he lives in Ottawa, I feel bad for him, I did this just for people like him. The kind that walks into the store and is amazed by the tanks and leaves with a regulator he thinks is going to give him the same result. 

There a reason why they don't let you see the solenoid in action, it's hot. I'm sure some excuse will be made, some reason will be given by fans of the store, but like charlie said and I experienced, there is a reason why the regulators are price the way they are. 

A good starter kit that is LESS than AI's kit and has good review is the Aquatek. It has a pre-set value of 30 psi which will still work with atomizer. And no, not the cheap kind you find at AI, the real kind sold by GLA.

You guys might ask, why do this if you thought the chinese knock off were bad? For you, for the starters in the hobby, for the people looking at a shiny regulator and are sold lies based on display tanks. If you wanted to grab something cheap, like a ph checker or something simple, by all means go to AI. For a full Co2 kit or their package deal, no. Simply no. 

I doubt I will hear back from them for store credit and that's ok. It's not the money that is important, it's the respect, it's the trust, it's helping each other out in the hobby. 

And finally, I want to offer my DICI Co2 kit free. If you are experience, want to test it out, take it apart and see what makes it tick, send me a pm. 

Yes, totally free. I will not give this away to someone new in the hobby, the solenoid fell off of mine and the new one they gave me heats up a lot.

Edit: Talked to them today, no refund, it's all good tho. Feb 27th. Alex did apologize for this whole experience. The warranty does go through the manufacture but shipping this thing to China is a lot. Anyways, ready to move on.


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## coldmantis

wow that is a bad review of the store, I'm sorry you got a bad experience, I feel bad now telling people who come over that wants my co2 setup and I say no go to ai and get those ones but at least I tell them my experience with their "quality" of products and you get what you pay for. Don't give out the regulator yet wait a little and see what they say, If they give you store credit get one of those hang on back canister filters they sell those are super silent and good for the bedroom, spend the rest on co2 stuff like reactor's, diffuser, lilly pipes, plants, fish, shrimp whatever. you work hard for that $100 don't throw it away because of this negative experience.


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## Darkblade48

If nobody takes it around, I might considering taking a look at it. At the very least, I might be able to salvage the setup for you; only cost would be replacing the solenoid.

I'd probably look into purchasing a Burkert 6011. Runs about $40. Maybe a little cheaper if I can find some people on Tom Barr's forums to group buy.


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## joe

FlyingHellFish said:


> Well I went to home depot and they sold me a black O-ring. I'm guessing this is not the same thing.
> 
> Beside camcarb and norwood, is there another place one can get these devilishly hard to find rubber looking O-rings?


try canadian tire or a paintball store


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## FlyingHellFish

Darkblade48 said:


> If nobody takes it around, I might considering taking a look at it. At the very least, I might be able to salvage the setup for you; only cost would be replacing the solenoid.
> 
> I'd probably look into purchasing a Burkert 6011. Runs about $40. Maybe a little cheaper if I can find some people on Tom Barr's forums to group buy.


It's all your, I like to keep the bubble counter as at least that piece works. I was going to send it to the states for a person on another forum but the shipping was crazy.

I'm sure the gauges still work along with the manifold and needle valve. If you salvage some of the set up I will be forever grateful.

If we do meet up, I can always grab that needle valve off of you and yes, count me in for the Burkert. I'm trying to score a Concoa 212, check it out. It has a Fabco and a Burkert Solenoid, might good looking.

Are those 1/4 NPT fittings easily found? I couldn't find any on the home depot site, might have to special order them. Why didn't anyone tell me how easy a DIY Regulator is.  JK, everyone told me that at the start.

@coldmantis, They never called me back, which isn't surprising. Not even sure if I should call them and ask. Everyone I talked to about the regulator told me the exact same thing, I even ask some home brewers and they said the same thing too; don't risk it. I was about to take off the UK thread connection and add a CGA320 nipple and nut, wanted to see if that would work.


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## Darkblade48

FlyingHellFish said:


> It's all your, I like to keep the bubble counter as at least that piece works. I was going to send it to the states for a person on another forum but the shipping was crazy.
> 
> I'm sure the gauges still work along with the manifold and needle valve. If you salvage some of the set up I will be forever grateful.


Keep it kicking around for now, if you still have it when I'm back in the GTA, I can take a look at it.



FlyingHellFish said:


> I'm trying to score a Concoa 212, check it out. It has a Fabco and a Burkert Solenoid, might good looking.


Sounds good; the Burkert would be better than the Fabco.



FlyingHellFish said:


> Are those 1/4 NPT fittings easily found? I couldn't find any on the home depot site, might have to special order them. Why didn't anyone tell me how easy a DIY Regulator is.  JK, everyone told me that at the start.


You can't find them on the website, you have to go to the store, since they do not list them. They are very easily found in the plumbing section of any hardware store. They cost around $2 each.


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## Bayinaung

Damn I was considering AI's set up for my new tank. Thanks for this post. I'll look elsewhere. Does anyone have experience buying Aquatek? How much were the duties? They are selling dual-stage regulators with solenoid for $65 on amazon. Shipping and handling is $29 so that's pretty reasonable.


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## charlie1

Bayinaung said:


> Damn I was considering AI's set up for my new tank. Thanks for this post. I'll look elsewhere. Does anyone have experience buying Aquatek? How much were the duties? They are selling dual-stage regulators with solenoid for $65 on amazon. Shipping and handling is $29 so that's pretty reasonable.


 Guys,at the very least read Darkblades article on Primer to CO2.
If you see dual *stage* complete set ups for 65.00 think *red lights flashing*.
Another thing don`t blame AI you have one side of the story & as the age old saying goes a story has 3 sides, this input is in no way implying that anyone is not telling the truth or making up a feel good story , like i said before it does not matter if it`s AI co2 rig that they sell or any rig,there is a reason why a good co2 set up cost more dollars - it`s not a get rich build trust me, try sourcing the parts of quality & see what the cost is.
Regards


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## FlyingHellFish

Bayinaung said:


> Damn I was considering AI's set up for my new tank. Thanks for this post. I'll look elsewhere. Does anyone have experience buying Aquatek? How much were the duties? They are selling dual-stage regulators with solenoid for $65 on amazon. Shipping and handling is $29 so that's pretty reasonable.


It's dual gauge, they don't list it as a dual stage, unlike my box that says Dual Stage Professional etc.

Reviews are good on that unit. You can have it ship USPS and avoid customs, just ask them.

@ Charlie - Don't have to take my word for it, your friend's unit is also messed up and he forking over money for a new one.

If you guys went to buy it, by all means. I don't know why this would be a feel good story, if anything I feel worse. I also don't know what AI's side of the story could be, maybe you guys can call them and ask.

Besides, this doesn't change the fact that it's a UK thread, or there a rubber O-ring included that not used. Or maybe it's the built in washer that doesn't come out.

I'm done with this, I gave my opinion and my experience. I'm not doing this to discredit them, hell, I haven't even written in their Store review thread on here.

I gained nothing but a 100 dollars worth of knowledge that I would like to pass on to you guys.


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## FlyingHellFish

PS - You guys do realize I still have a relationship with AI right? 

I brought some HC Cuba off of them today. Alex is extremely helpful to me and I know he feels bad about this but I guess it's out of his hands. 

It's just the fact that I personally want a regulator to be more stable in it's working pressure. The unit works (just has a lot of pressure swings) and based on that fact I'm not getting a refund which I understand.... a bit. 

It's not just AI's unit, there are numerous problems with cheap chinese/taiwan co2 kits. AI didn't produce this kit and I understand that.


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## charlie1

FlyingHellFish said:


> It's dual gauge, they don't list it as a dual stage, unlike my box that says Dual Stage Professional etc.
> 
> Reviews are good on that unit. You can have it ship USPS and avoid customs, just ask them.
> 
> *@ Charlie - Don't have to take my word for it, your friend's unit is also messed up and he forking over money for a new one. *
> 
> .
> 
> Besides, this doesn't change the fact that it's a UK thread, or there a rubber O-ring included that not used. Or maybe it's the built in washer that doesn't come out.
> 
> I gained nothing but a 100 dollars worth of knowledge that I would like to pass on to you guys.


 I never or doubted the issue of the regulator, you got what you paid for - a cheap unit - did you research it before taking one for the team? as you have done after the fact.



> If you guys went to buy it, by all means. I don't know why this would be a feel good story, if anything I feel worse. I also don't know what AI's side of the story could be, maybe you guys can call them and ask


 Only Ai knows their side of the story bro.
Personally whenever i`m buying anything electronic or mechanical from a store, I always confirm what the store polices are with warranty etc, .Also read my remark again, i`m not sure i implied it`s a feel good story
"this input is in *no way implying that anyone is not telling the truth or making up a feel good *story ,", not quite sure how derived it`s a feel good story from that comment. 


> I'm done with this, I gave my opinion and my experience. I'm not doing this to discredit them, hell, I haven't even written in their Store review thread on here.


 It is probably a good thing to do, we all learn & move on.
Regards


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## FlyingHellFish

Yeah, your right Charlie. I'm fine with moving on. I did get an apology from Alex today, I think he gave me some extra cuba because that bag was stack full.

Let's just drop the matter. I got mid terms to worry about.


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## Bayinaung

sounds like a good shop for plants and tanks. never knew about it till now. Another one to check out.


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## Boogerboy

Just came to say that I got the cheapest of their regulators, and It's been working just fine, stable pressure and bps. Love the low profile.

I guess it's a bit of a gamble with this stuff!

I am not satisfied with the sketchy paper receipt they gave me, though. (I can only hope they honor any warranty on the stuff I buy from them)


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## vraev

FlyingHellFish said:


> Yeah, your right Charlie. I'm fine with moving on. I did get an apology from Alex today, I think he gave me some extra cuba because that bag was stack full.
> 
> Let's just drop the matter. I got mid terms to worry about.


Crap! I just saw this thread and I just bought a full system including the 10lbs CO2 system from AI.

But my tank is bigger... 25gal. Also... I am just concerned about safety..i.e., unit not blowing up or leaking CO2 out. As long as that is fine, its fair. I have a lot to read up on putting together planted aquaria before I can hook up that CO2 unit.


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## Boogerboy

vraev said:


> Crap! I just saw this thread and I just bought a full system including the 10lbs CO2 system from AI.
> 
> But my tank is bigger... 25gal. Also... I am just concerned about safety..i.e., unit not blowing up or leaking CO2 out. As long as that is fine, its fair. I have a lot to read up on putting together planted aquaria before I can hook up that CO2 unit.


I wouldn't worry about it. AI is a pretty big player in Toronto now, if the regulators were failing or blowing up I think we'd hear more of a ruckus about it 

My drop checker seems to be content with its CO2 delivery.


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## bigfishy

Boogerboy said:


> I wouldn't worry about it. AI is a pretty big player in Toronto now, if the regulators were failing or blowing up I think we'd hear more of a ruckus about it
> 
> My drop checker seems to be content with its CO2 delivery.


it failed for flyhellfish :O and a few that doesn't use internet o.o


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## Boogerboy

I don't have the solenoid model, I imagine that uncomplicates things some. In any case, like I said, buying cheap stuff is always somewhat of a gamble. I just don't think it's in any company's interest to continue sell products with a known high failure rate, AI seem to be selling quite well.. At worst, it would be a not-so-expensive slip up down the road (and the cyclinder is fine anyway, which is a big chunk of the money.)


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## vraev

I got exactly this model...with red cylinder










But that black one...so the same one as talked about in this thread with dual gauges and drop checker, solenoid.


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## Zebrapl3co

Damn, sorry to hear it didn't work out in the end. Thanks for taking one for the forum FlyingHellFish. If you want the best, Rex's regulator is still the best around. But expensive though. If you're thinking about Milwakee, it's quirky as well. I have to adjust mine all the time and keep an eye on it. Especially when you hook it up to a new CO2 tank. The pressure can varie from nothing to deadly.

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