# Sump Questions



## Kimchi24 (Mar 22, 2013)

Hey guys, I just got my hands on a 140 gallon 6 ft x 2 ft x 18.5 inches. I want to make a two DIY PVC overflows (one on each end) and hook them up to a 33 gallon tank that I'll be converting into a sump/refugium.

1) What GPH pump should I be looking for if I want only one return pump?

2) What GPH pump should I be looking for if I want two return pumps?

3) Do I *HAVE* to have a wet/dry component on a FW sump?

Also, The reason why I am making a refuguim is because the main tank will not be planted. It will host some cichlids that will most definitely destroy all plants. THANKS!


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## Mykuhl (Apr 8, 2013)

First of all...congrats on the new tank, really nice dimensions. 

I don't have a lot of experience with sump systems but I will offer what I do know. 

The size(GPH and head pressure) of the pump you will need will depend on the height the pump is pumping water(highest point of the return), how many bends there are from your pump to the exit point of th return, and how many GPH your overflow(s) are dumping into the sump(this will be influenced by the diameter of the stand pipe).There are likely other factors as well but this as much as I know. Basically you need to figure these points out because you need to achieve a balance between water in(to the sump) and water out(back into the tank), or you will have a flood.

Also, you do not need to have a wet/dry filter as part of your sump.


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## Kimchi24 (Mar 22, 2013)

Ah, Thanks man. I'm planning on doing a 1" DIY PVC overflow because I don't want to drill this tank. I'm probably going to have twp pumps running because it would be easier to control with ball valves and such. I may do a ghetto style wet/dry but who knows. I'll post pictures once im done


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## Kimchi24 (Mar 22, 2013)

What kind of pumps should I be looking for? I'm hearing good and bad reviews about mags but I've never dove into this kinda stuff before. I was planning on two pumps at 700 ghp each for my 135-140 gallon tank. That way, with head loss and all that, they would be pushing about 500ish gph making it 1000gph!
And as always, anyone have any money conscious recommendations? haha


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## Kimchi24 (Mar 22, 2013)

are pond return pumps similar to normal sump pumps? I'm doing some research and im finding some pond pumps with desirable gph at a low cost.

Also, is there a difference between danner's mag drive and a normal mag drive? why are the prices so different?


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

1 inch sounds a bit small.

Joey DIY king has a good guide on pipe size on one of his videos


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## Kimchi24 (Mar 22, 2013)

i decided on using 1.5 inch ones because his calcultaor stated that each overflow should take about 700 gph or so. so 2x should be a 1400 gph capacity. i think that should be ok right? ugh the more i research on sumps, the more i get confused


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## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

WRT FW sumped systems, you do need a section for biological media, whether it be bioballs, lava rock rubble, ceramic rings/tube, etc. Having that section as "wet/dry" helps with gas exchange and you can use less than if it was submerged.

You should have a minimum of 5x turnover rate and what ever pump you choose, you should have a minimum flow rate of ~675GPH with your particular system factoring head height and pipe length and fittings. If you plan on a high stock level, added aeration via air pump-airstone combo or powerhead with the venturi aeration is a must. With the 1" drain fittings, you will be fine up to 1000GPH. If the aquarium already has holes drilled for 1.5" bulkheads keep with the 1.5” drain size as it will help in noise reduction of water entering the sump. 

Noise (water entering the sump) will need to be addressed at higher turnover rates if you are particular sound issues. There are a few ways in minimizing the splash/crash of water as it enters the sump with single drain overflows. Ideally use SCH40 PVC as the wall thickness will help in muffling the noise but if you plan on using the thin wall flex hose, make sure that the inner walls are smooth vs ribbed. Also make sure minimize “dips” in the run.

A single return pump is simpler. Just "T" from the pump and put a valve at the end to control the flow.

MagDrive pumps (9.5 and bigger) are real workhorses but emit quite a hum, IMHO/E. Laguna Max-Flo pumps of similar GPH are quieter. The only drawback to is that you have to buy the threaded attachment that you can connect to hard/PVC plumbing and is usually special order through the LFS or via online. If you want to spend a little more, the Fluval SEA return pumps are becoming my fav internal return pumps in my SW installations. At this point, don't bother with DC pumps as they still have their "bugs" to work out. Abyzz, Royal Exclusive RD3Speedy, or Blue-Eco are the only DC pumps that are built to conform to "humid/wet environments".

HTH


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## Kimchi24 (Mar 22, 2013)

wow. Thanks for the info! I'm just wondering about the aeration part. Can i have the air stone running on the sump or does it have to be in the tank. Id rather have all my stuff hidden in the sump


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## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

If you have a high stock/biological load, ideally you want the aeration in the main aquarium to help with gas exchange/oxygenated water as the filtration through the sump is limited by the turnover rate.

You can use 1/8" OD rigid airline tubing to deliver the air to the airstone in the aquarium. That would at least make it very neat. Though it will have a shiny look, you can use black "Flex Seal" to paint the rigid tubing. Don't use "regular" paint as it will crack and chip off when the tubing is bent.

For added aeration/gas exchange you can put an airstone in the sump. If the biological media section if submerged, putting a few airstones under it will increase nitrification rates.

Keep in mind the extra aeration will increase evaporation rates so you may have to deal with humidity and definitely frequent top offs.

HTH


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## coldmantis (Apr 5, 2010)

I did the whole DIY pvc overflow before, I don't know what I was thinking I hate noise in general and this kind of overflow is loud as hell.

I just uploaded this video yesterday, it might give you an idea on how to build your freshwater sump. I emphasize quietness above everything else, this type of sump is not quiet it's dead silent.


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## Kimchi24 (Mar 22, 2013)

dont the HOB overflows work by suction? I wouldn't want that because im now extremely paranoid of flooding due to past events. That and I'm too scared too drill my tank.Thanks for the video though. You sump looks awesome and so does your tank haha.


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## coldmantis (Apr 5, 2010)

The hob overflow works the same as your diy PVC overflow, only difference is that its not ugly looking like PVC and has two j tubes so if one looses suction the other will still move water to the sump. I have stimulated over 20 power outages and all 20+ times it has come back no problems, I have gone threw 5+ real life power outages and it comes back sometimes with one j tube not having any suction but the other does so no flooding. The only fool proof way of no flooding is to drill. If your scared of drilling just do what I did, go to the dollar store and buy a few picture frames. Practice with those until your comfortable enough to drill your tank.


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## colio (Dec 8, 2012)

I made a sumped system with a HOB overflow and it was flood proof. The sump did not fill up all the way, and the size of the return chamber was limited. That way, if the pup stopped (e.g. power outage) there was space in the sump for the water which drained down. And if I broke my siphon on the return (which I could only really do by pulling out the U-tube), the limited size of the return chamber meant the top take didn't flood from pumping. 

I actually dissassembled the system Saturday as part of a downgrade to a single Big tank. I still have my pump, overflow, and plumbing. I'll send a PM. 

Happy plumbing! 
Colin


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