# Angelfish



## Joeee (Apr 3, 2010)

I've been considering angelfish for some time as I've heard that the maintenace is very similar to discus and I want to own discus one day. Even if discus aren't all that hard, I don't have money and space for them at the moment and I'd at least like to prepare for them. So I have a few questions regarding angelfish:

1. What's the difference between an altum and a regular angel?
2. How difficult is angelfish breeding?
3. How can I make sure that I have both genders rather than just one? I'm keeping them in a 32G so I can't have that many fully grown ones in there so should I buy about 5 juvenile fish?
4. Is RO water required to breed them?
5. Can I feed them fully grown red cherry shrimp?
6. What qualities do I look for when buying angelfish? (like clear eyes, normal fins [not deformed], etc)
7. When are they sexually mature? How big are they at this time?
8. Feeding - What would be a high quality food that I could feed them? Should I stick with New Life Spectrum? I plan to have a mixed diet, with a bit of live food and some dry foods.
9. What live food can I feed baby angelfish? Could I use green water?


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## BillD (Jun 5, 2006)

Altums are generally harder to keep than scalare types. They also look different, with generally longer fins, proportionately. Also, altums tend to be more expensive, although, BA's in Whitby has some medium size altums and some babies that aren't too expensive. Better to go with scalare in that size tank.
Angelfish breed readily, as often as every 6 to 9 days. Raising the fry isn't usually difficult although clean water is especially important, and broods can be large with as many as 400, and 200+ being the norm.
They can be dificult to sex until they reach maturity. When the breeding tubes drop, the difference between the male and female is obvious. Other tells aren't as reliable.
You do not need RO water to breed scalare. Not many people have bred altums, but it would sem that water is an issue with them.
Angels can't eat a fully grown cherry shrimp, although they may try.
As for conformation, you want a tall bodied fish with pointer fins, undamaged, straight ventral fins and a generally good deportment. If you can see some wild fish, that will tell you what an angel should look like, including domestics.
They can be swxually mature at 6 to 12 months, and they can be a variety of sizes. How big they get depends on a number of factors, including how they are fed and how clean the water is kept. Change lots of water feed well, and the fish will grow fairly large. Angels will grow very quickly under ideal conditions.
Any good quality food will work, although they enjoy live food. Which can include mosquito larvae, blood worms, white worms, daphnia, small shrimp, back worms, fruit flies. Basically anything they can fit into their mouths.
Angel fry do best on live baby brine shrimp, newly hatched. Microworms would be a second choice, not as good as BBS in my estimation. When they get bigger, anything that will fit into their mouth. They are large enough when free swimming to take BBS, even the Utah ones. Green water isn't necessary nor is infusoria.


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## dl88dl (Mar 8, 2010)

I went to Whitby BA 5 days ago and the baby altums all seem to be fine but today I when back there and they were all gone so I ask Steve if they sold all the baby altums and he said they all die today


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## BillD (Jun 5, 2006)

That is a shame.


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## acropora1981 (Aug 21, 2010)

BA's Vaughan also has baby altum's in, however they may have met the same fate. They have the larger size as well.


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## Holidays (Apr 18, 2010)

that's downside of this hobby, transporting fish from another environment, whether the nature (for wild caught) or breeder, some if not all will die. but we can't all be a rescuer waiting for unwated fish.


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## Altumnut (May 12, 2010)

Altums are very difficult to acclimatize. When I get them in, I prepare my water weeks in advance. PH below 5, Conductivity 50ppm, Temp 90F. And add filtered peat I brew for a month. I have two #5 sponge filter and really crank the air so surface water gives a wave action.
I open bag just enough to get an airline in and tie it back up to prevent ammonia burn and slowly drip my tank water in over a period of 2-3 hours. The process is only done if I get fish directly from Columbia/Brazil.

I really don't think BA goes through that trouble and is why the survival rate is near 0%.

Some may not agree but it's my way
...Ralph


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## acropora1981 (Aug 21, 2010)

Altumnut said:


> Altums are very difficult to acclimatize. When I get them in, I prepare my water weeks in advance. PH below 5, Conductivity 50ppm, Temp 90F. And add filtered peat I brew for a month. I have two #5 sponge filter and really crank the air so surface water gives a wave action.
> I open bag just enough to get an airline in and tie it back up to prevent ammonia burn and slowly drip my tank water in over a period of 2-3 hours. The process is only done if I get fish directly from Columbia/Brazil.
> 
> I really don't think BA goes through that trouble and is why the survival rate is near 0%.
> ...


I think that your way is definately the way to go; and as for BA's, it really depends on WHICH BA's. Some do things right (sometimes lol), some don't.


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## Letigrama (Jul 6, 2008)

Hi,

I bred Angels for quite a while before I moved completely to Discus.

This is the way to start. Once you bred Angels you can star mixing them with discus until you moved completely.

1. What's the difference between an altum and a regular angel?
Never had Altums, I know they are more expensive.
2. How difficult is angelfish breeding?

Very easy, change water every week, dont alter PH, have good cycled water in your tank.
3. How can I make sure that I have both genders rather than just one? I'm keeping them in a 32G so I can't have that many fully grown ones in there so should I buy about 5 juvenile fish?

If you buy 5, you take your chances. Most likely you'll get at least one pair.But once they are all adults, 5 angels in a 32g is a bit tight, as adult get extremely territorial and they will just kill each other. The breeing pair will need 30 gallons of territory just for themselves. Think if the breeding pair doenst have enough space, they wont take chances on breeding. You can just get a 20-30 gallon second tank as you will need this for the breeding pair. A pair will breed but fry will not survive with other angels around. Also, you will need a 3rd little tank for the fry. Only in rare occasions the parents will not eat the fry.

4. Is RO water required to breed them?
nope..

5. Can I feed them fully grown red cherry shrimp?

That is just cruel and absolutely unnecessary, not even mentioning expensive. If you want to give them quality food, get live blood worms or beefheart.

6. What qualities do I look for when buying angelfish? (like clear eyes, normal fins [not deformed], etc)
Not deformed. swimming straight, the bigger the better.
7. When are they sexually mature? How big are they at this time?
6 to 8 months.
8. Feeding - What would be a high quality food that I could feed them? 
Should I stick with New Life Spectrum? I plan to have a mixed diet, with a bit of live food and some dry foods.
Just like you said, dont abuse with dry food.
9. What live food can I feed baby angelfish? Could I use green water?

ONLY baby brine shrimp. you'll need to make a culture..

Also, just FYI, dont think that breeding angels has anything to do with breeding discus. This is extremely difficult and very different. I had Discus for 5 years, with 3 breeidng pairs, RO unit and breeding tanks and still did not pass the giglers stage!

Good luck and have fun!


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