# Jano's build



## janothemano (Mar 15, 2009)

so i bought all the equipment second hand for an awsome price, and i took 30lbs of fully cured live rock from a friends tank

its been cycling for 4 days now and the water is crystal clear

can i start adding invertabrates????

here are my water test levels

April 5

PH : 7.8
Amonia : 0.25
nitrate : 5.0
nitrite : 0

Here are some pics

IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v411/janz70/CIMG0983.jpg[/IMG]


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

No, no inverts, no anything.

Read up on cycling your tank. When you test 0 detectable nitrites and ammonia, then you can start to add things slowly.


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## janothemano (Mar 15, 2009)

but i read that if you are using fully cured rock already then cycling shouldnt take as long, is that true 

how long do you suggest untill i start adding cleaner crew

so i wait till amonia goes from .25 to 0 before adding fish


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## pat3612 (Jan 29, 2008)

janothemano said:


> but i read that if you are using fully cured rock already then cycling shouldnt take as long, is that true
> 
> how long do you suggest untill i start adding cleaner crew
> 
> so i wait till amonia goes from .25 to 0 before adding fish


yes thats what to wait for


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## janothemano (Mar 15, 2009)

If you choose to cycle your tank using fish, which is infinitely more interesting than a tank full of circulating water, the number of fish needed depends on the size of the tank. In any case, two fish are preferable to one. If one fish dies, you will still have one to finish the cycling. Of course the second fish may pass on too. If all the fish die, then you have to remove all the contaminants from the tank and introduce more organisms (read this as start all over).


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## ozi (Aug 23, 2007)

janothemano said:


> but i read that if you are using fully cured rock already then cycling shouldnt take as long, is that true
> 
> how long do you suggest untill i start adding cleaner crew
> 
> so i wait till amonia goes from .25 to 0 before adding fish


and wait till your nitrite goes from 5.0 (toxic and lethal) to 0.
are you sure that's 30 pounds of rock. it doesn't look like it.
the tank looks like a ~ 30 G, and when you put 30 pounds in a 30G, the rock would be filling 2/3 of the tank.


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## janothemano (Mar 15, 2009)

that depends on the type of rock 

the rock does weigh in at 30lbs, maybe its just decieving from the pics or the fact that its a bowfront


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## UnderTheSea (Jun 2, 2008)

janothemano said:


> In any case, two fish are preferable to one. If one fish dies, you will still have one to finish the cycling. Of course the second fish may pass on too. If all the fish die, then you have to remove all the contaminants from the tank and introduce more organisms (read this as start all over).


You do not use fish to cycle your tank. You want to help with the cycling go to your local super market and get some raw shrimp and place a few chunks in your tank. You DO NOT use live animals to cycle a tank.

This is one of the most common mistakes in the hobby. Adding a clean up crew right away. Your tank is new so what is the clean up crew going to clean up?

What kind of rock would that be? A good porous rock that size may weigh 10-15 lbs.


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## ruffyruff (Dec 28, 2008)

my recommendation is to hold off any live stock, get another 30 lbs of rocks if what I see is 30 lbs... 

I have 2 tanks and both have 1ish lb per G... 29G has 30lbs (about 1/2 my tank of rocks) and 20G has 25 lbs (about 1/2 my tank is full)... 

I think your 30lbs of rock came from the 2 slates u have on the left and right... the more surface area on the rock the better it is, like the rocks in the middle...

if u really want to rush.. get some stability, dose every day.. in <7 days.. u'll finish cycling (not really) but go very slow at that time... until 1 month old tank =)


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## hojimoe (Mar 7, 2008)

for comparison, my 65g tall has over 120 lbs of rock


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## ruffyruff (Dec 28, 2008)

When I picked my rock at NAFB, you could tell which one is heavier and lighter even if they are the same size... I prefer to choose the lighter because that means its less dense (hoping for more holes in the middle of the rock) and also I could buy more for the same price... Rocks can help culture many weird stuff... often in cases i m more facinated at my rocks than corals and fish! GO CORALINE GO!

off topic, has anyone tried PurpleUp? any good reviews?


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

my 21g tank has about 50lbs in it.

Don't add anything new till your nitrites and ammonia read zero.


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

ruffyruff said:


> off topic, has anyone tried PurpleUp? any good reviews?


Crap, is what I've heard.

Also those "Stability" "cycle" etc etc are just garbage too. Buy a single frozen shrimp at the grocery store. wait. done.


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## ruffyruff (Dec 28, 2008)

ameekplec...

Thanks for the heads up.. I can save that 20$ and buy 3 more LBS of rock =) hahaha 

I found Stability to help significantly with my tank startup (dont get me wrong, I didnt put any fishes in till 2 weeks w/ Ammonia 0 Nitrite 0 Nitrate 10... it stayed like that for the longest time... till I got your Chaeto...

Now my Nitrate is constant at 0, but dealing with some phosphate in the tank at 0.5... thats wayyy too off topic...

After the 2nd day dosing 1.5X recommended Stability I saw a LOAD of critters on my rock, glass, everywhere!!! YAY!!!

In compared to my other tank 20G, I decided not to dose Stability... critters multipled very VERY ULTRA VERY Slow


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## UnderTheSea (Jun 2, 2008)

ruffyruff said:


> off topic, has anyone tried PurpleUp? any good reviews?


Don't waste your money on Purple Up.

Get going on an inexpensive 2-Part System. This is what we use and those who have seen my tanks can tell you that there is no shortage of coraline.

ReefKeeping - An Improved Do-it-Yourself Two-Part
Calcium and Alkalinity Supplement System

We carry the calcium chloride (DowFlake). Get the Baking Soda and Epson Salts from your local bulk food store or supermarket.


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## ruffyruff (Dec 28, 2008)

I have read somewhere that Magnesium plays a Big Factor here, would dosing Magnesium be adequate?

My dkH is fine.. at 8.. could be higher... but I do not want to be messing with that since its been sitting around 8.2-8.4ish


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## Tabatha (Dec 29, 2007)

ameekplec. said:


> Crap, is what I've heard.
> 
> Also those "Stability" "cycle" etc etc are just garbage too. Buy a single frozen shrimp at the grocery store. wait. done.


I have to strongly disagree with you on the SeaChem Stability issue. As you know, we tried the shrimp route but never got a spike in our 112 gallon, live rock and sand, our parameters never went over 0 using Stability. However, we cycled the (second hand) rock for 8 weeks in a Brute container with a skimmer and water changes.

Here's a few articles:

Bacteria bottles, do they work? http://theaquariumwiki.com/Bacteria_bottles,_do_they_work?

The Nitrogen Cycle: http://theaquariumwiki.com/The_Nitrogen_Cycle


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Tabatha said:


> I have to strongly disagree with you on the SeaChem Stability issue. As you know, we tried the shrimp route but never got a spike in our 112 gallon, live rock and sand, our parameters never went over 0 using Stability. However, we cycled the (second hand) rock for 8 weeks in a Brute container with a skimmer and water changes.
> 
> Here's a few articles:
> 
> ...


I think the success of your cycle has more to do with the pre-cycled rock and large water volume with a single shrimp used to seed it. With the cycled rock going in, you already had an established functioning biological filter, hence the stable parameters. Also, a single rotting piece of shrimp isn't going to cause the parameters of a 120+ gallon system to go out of whack quickly, especially with lots of cycled live rock in there already.

IMO, you're better off using that money to get an extra pound or two of live rock.


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## ruffyruff (Dec 28, 2008)

Hey Tabatha,

Thanks for the HOB Fuge... its running very well.. like your hubby said... check for leak and it indeed had a small leak (but easily sealed and running on Day 2)...

It does prove those bottle bacteria works very well... infact my LFS has suggested to do a 1.5x dosing for the first 7 days... that really created an abundant of bugs everywhere... 

But at the end of the day, you still have to have 1:1 ratio of LR and Gallon to have a successful tank...


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## Tabatha (Dec 29, 2007)

ruffyruff said:


> Hey Tabatha,
> 
> Thanks for the HOB Fuge... its running very well.. like your hubby said... check for leak and it indeed had a small leak (but easily sealed and running on Day 2)...
> 
> ...


Now I wished I'd kept the HOB as I want to upgrade my office tank to a 30g! *DOH!* Ah well, I have an extra phosban reactor and internal overflow I can use.


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## janothemano (Mar 15, 2009)

Hey Guys so i checked my parameters today and this is what it said 

Ph = 8.0
Amonia = 0
Nitrate = 0
nitrite = 5.0

I has my friend come over with a surprise. 1 blue damsel, 1 seargent damsel and 4 mexican turbo snails. I thought since my parameters are perfect except for a slight variation in the ph (which i added a ph buffer to get it to 8.2), and i wasnt gonna make him return the fish.

I decided to add them to my tank, its been about 24 hours now and everythings doing great the fish are eating and healthy and the snails are moving around the tank.

next i want to get 2 clowns and either a bubbletip or some other type of small ananome

pics coming soon , thanks guys


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## janothemano (Mar 15, 2009)

Also how the heck do i get the detrius off the top layer of the sand it seems to be slowly expanding


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## ruffyruff (Dec 28, 2008)

Do not get an anemone yet, your tank needs to be at LEAST 6 months old... or you'll be wasting money and what from what pictures tell me, your lighting may not be good enough for them... Just wait a bit before you get the anemone... you are good to go adding 1 fish at a week... I still recommend buying more rocks tho!

Detrius on your rock means that your tank is still in its early stages, they will go away (if the tank was empty).. if not they will cause stress for your fish and sky rocket your pH (at the same time, you do not need to do anything w/ your pH... 8 is okay! your sand will take care of it... dont dose at this stage without testing for dkh and calcium... 

ATM, you can vacuum the detrius ... and plan to do that religiously on a daily basis... =) for about 1 - 2 weeks 

Enjoy


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Detritus settling is also a sign that the flow is insufficient in parts of your tank.

Also, I'd stay away from having four damsels in one tank your size - clownfish are damsels too.

I'd hod off on getting anything sensitive to water parameter changes - ie corals and inverts. Your cycle seems to have just ended, and adding sensitive things to the tank is only asking for trouble.

Also, don't bother trying to buffer your pH - you're just going to have problems keeping your pH where "you want it". If you're between 8.2 and 7.9, you're looking ok.


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## janothemano (Mar 15, 2009)

SO done a ton of things since my last post

added 2 clowns
added 2 types of corals from a friends tank (need id)
added 1 blue legged hermit
added 1 snail that burrowed into my sand (need id)
added a protien skimmer

tested water parameters this morning

PH = 8.2
AMONIA = 0
NITRITE = 0
NITRATE = 5

now ive had the protien skimmer on for 24 hours and it looks to be working but is not collecting any debrie, is this cause the tanks clean still?
Everything looks to be happy and theres no fighting amongst the fish (whew!)
im feeding them marine flake food and im wondering how much i should be feeding them??? and any other comments or input would be greatly apprieceated.

Thank guys


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Get the other two damsels out, the clowns out or one of the damsels and the clowns out. They will kill each other (probably one of the damsels will prevail over the other and the clownfish). 

The two (three) types of corals appear to be a frogspawn (bubbly thing) and palythoas and zoanthids.

Your skimmer will need a break in period before it will start to produce skimmate. FWIW, Biocube skimmers are notoriusly bad, and don't skim terribly well, so it could be a while before you see anything.

Feed only as much as they'll eat in 2 - 3 minutes. Feed twice a day if you can.

The snail that buries itself is either a Cerith or Nassarius snail.


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## janothemano (Mar 15, 2009)

but there is absolutly no aggresion between any of them i know im just a beggiiner but shouldnt i wait till i see aggresion before removing them. If i have 2 id remove the damsels cause i want to keep the clowns.

what athor cool fish could i replace the damsels with??


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

No, waiting for aggression is like waiting for the bully to punch the little kid in the face and break his nose before doing anything.

Get both damsels or the clowns and one damsel out. If you keep a damsel, be prepared to house nothing else, as they can be aggressive to other species as well in Nanos where space is limited.

Check liveaquaria.com for some ideas - their descriptions are pretty accurate, as well as tank size suggestions. Here is the Nano fish section: http://liveaquaria.com/product/aquarium-fish-supplies.cfm?c=15+2124
Most of these are commonly available in LFS around toronto.

Also, the sergeant damsel gets to be 6 - 7". Not nano appropriate.


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## xkx85x (Apr 11, 2009)

LOL..you added the bioload I added over 6 months in 20 days
+1 on taking the damsels out, I say this out of experiece, I have a blue tail damsel and she's a little devil, they get VERY VERY territorial (it killed my baby clown)...do that before you add more corals. Damsels are very fast and hide, so you'll have to disturb your rocks and sand (never good if not doing a water change) which will upset your corals


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## xXxEspoxXx (Apr 7, 2009)

jano hahaha looking to get experience everything I told you is what they are all saying...


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## janothemano (Mar 15, 2009)

espo following me everywhere
something to do while im at work


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## xXxEspoxXx (Apr 7, 2009)

see the ppl say you may need more rock. You know where to go for a decent price


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## janothemano (Mar 15, 2009)

maybe idf you sold me 30lbs instead of 25


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## janothemano (Mar 15, 2009)

QUESTION

WHEN TOPPING OFF OR DOING A WATER CHANGE DO I ADD SALT or just top off without adding salt


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## conix67 (Jul 27, 2008)

if you're topping off water lost due to evaporation top off with water

water change must be done with correctly prepared salt water only


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## ruffyruff (Dec 28, 2008)

I dont know about most reefers, but I do check my salinity level DAILY .. if salinity I usually expect to add 1/2 a cup of water to a cup of water on my 29G biocube..


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## xXxEspoxXx (Apr 7, 2009)

just add sugar half wit


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## ruffyruff (Dec 28, 2008)

I use those nestle hazelnut cream


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

I only check my salinity once a week before WCs. Of course, I am running an ATO which makes my life really easy.


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## Sunstar (Jul 29, 2008)

wow, you got alot of stuff in your tank.... 

I spend hours watching things crawling in and around my rocks. I am not so sure I want fish in my tank for a long time. I find the critters so much more interesting.

I will post in here instead of the other thread. but it covers both now I have read them both. 

I am a right noob with salt water tanks myself. So I have litte advice to give you but to tell you to listen to people like Ameekplec, Tabitha, cablemike and others. These people know reef keeping and they are a resource. They can help you IF you let them help you. 

Salt water is NOT fresh water. Even in fresh water, you need to be aware to take things in a timely manner. 

I admit, the rotting shrimp wasn't for me. I got a migriane soon after the thing started to get rather ripe and had to remove it. But I bought extra live rock and things seem to be getting peachy. 

There are things I want and I know I have to wait. heck, things I want may not be suitable to my current tank. I am fine with that. I am a patient person and patience is how you win this particular game. I have had my tank running for almost a month and a half. I was given a frag right off the start and some live sand. I added to it. I occasionally add live rock, but I expect a small recycle as it adds itself in.

The only animals I added to this tank was a clean up crew (about a month after start) to help consume the diatom and other algae. my cleanup crew is a group of 4 hermits, which I was told by doug at alternative aquariums is the minimum I needed to be actually functional. However with that said, I have three Stomatella snails (hitch hikers) a bristle star, peanut worms, other weird things, shell fish too I am aware of such as a clam that enjoys walking up the wall of my tank and an oyster-like thing. My live rock is thriving with things. Even had/have a mantis shrimp somewhere in there. I removed one. I even have feather dusters that glow under the blue lights. 

I read about stuff, albeit not as much as I should. But if I have questions, I listen to the folks here. They tell me what I should do, what I should avoid and they usually have very solid reasons for their advice. 

if they suggest you to remove your fish or return them, don't be so extreme as to say flush them. find another fish keeper who will take them, or as some suggested, return it to the store you got them from. There is no shame in admitting a mistake. It takes balls to say you were wrong. 

As blossom has told me. Salt is less forgiving than fresh water.

get more live rock. get it from different souces, pile it up in very airy manner. Add more flow and brighter lights.

And Good things come to those who wait.


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## ruffyruff (Dec 28, 2008)

well put sunstar...

I love pods on rocks, i wonder what they do for a living?


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

get up.

Eat dirt.

Swim like crazy.

Play dead.

Go on union mandated (CUC local 153) break. 15 min.

Make a million eggs.

Scare noobs.

Go home to wife and million kids in chaeto. Eat more dirt. Go to sleep when lights come on.


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## Sunstar (Jul 29, 2008)

mine made a million kids and they run around all hours of the day...shame on those parents... shame on them!


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## ruffyruff (Dec 28, 2008)

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I dont know what happened to my pods about "make a million eggs"

I use to have tonnes of them.. but now i have alot less, do you think my perc's ate them?


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## Sunstar (Jul 29, 2008)

what are percs? fish?


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Percula clownfish. Percs.

Probably - I used to have millions of pods everywhere. Then my sixline wrasse ate them all. Now I see them extremely rarely, and usually only in the refugium.


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## Sunstar (Jul 29, 2008)

AAAh that's why.... I haven't looked into clownfish. I was watching them, they're cute. but my tank is tooooooo small for them. Anyway, I still want a gramma.


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## ruffyruff (Dec 28, 2008)

my true percs are cute...

the female is pretty dominant.. I have 2 anemone in the tank... and she sleeps in both of them... so if she sleeps on the BTA, and wants to go to the LTA, she will push the male out, the male starts dancing (should send him to "dancing with the stars" or "You think you can dance").... HAHAHA and after a few minutes, she will return back to the BTA, and he will go back to the LTA....

AWESOME!!!!!


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## janothemano (Mar 15, 2009)

UPDATE

Well i found a baby Humu Rectangle Triggerfish and added it. To my surprise there is no tension between the fish. The trigger is only like 1/2 inch. I went to big als and found a pom pom crab for 18bucks bought it and went across to dragon aquarium where i found the baby trigger. I went right back to big als and told them i couldnt house the pom pom and that i made a mistake. They took it back and i bought the trigger instead.

Def has the most personality, i put a wand in to move some stuff around and he attacked it lol


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## janothemano (Mar 15, 2009)

before anyone is like he needs at least 70g, i am aware of this and have alternative housing for when he gets too big, between 8-12 months


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## xXxEspoxXx (Apr 7, 2009)

janothemano said:


> before anyone is like he needs at least 70g, i am aware of this and have alternative housing for when he gets too big, between 8-12 months


lol...hope your not thinking my tank


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## ruffyruff (Dec 28, 2008)

hahaha!!!!

How come u cannot keep the pom pom? the trigger will eat it?


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## janothemano (Mar 15, 2009)

ya that will be a nice 20$ meal, i have a blue legged hermit and some turbo snails so well see how that goes, but the trigger is tiny still.

Al ot of personality my favorite fish 

Thats my 5th fish in a 30g, and my last fish.


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