# Getting my tank setup



## Tanked (Sep 9, 2008)

Well alrighty, I got a good handle on this shit or so I think  I have bought a 20gallon tank with a brand new Aqueon 150gph filter and heater.

I have been washing everything tank, filter, rocks etc with Aquarium salt and hot water like I was told to do by the local pet store. Well since washing the tank there almost like a white powder on the inside needless to say i have know idea what it is. 

The only other question I have at this current time is how much gravel is needed for the tank? and what kinda water should i dump into it before strating the cycling process. Thanks guys and Gal's


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Well, it's a good start to rinse it out. You didn't have to use salt though.

One word to the wise before we get going: take everything the LFS (local fish store) staff with a grain of....salt  They aren't always the most knowledgeable people out there.

Anyways, a good place to start. it really depends on what you want to do with the tank. I'd suggest just starting with a natural coloured gravel. You'll probably only need one bag (7kg or something) to start. 

Depending on the tank (riverine, planted, cichild, etc etc) you need different substrate, so it'll change, but as your first tank, just getting it going and caring for fish and getting 'wet' will be a good enough start. We can get more complicated later on.

As for now, just fill it up with regular untreated tap water. Don't bother heating it. If you can, go buy a plant from teh lfs and throw it in. Or just take a piece of lettuce and throw it in and let it rot. the bacteria that break it down will be the bacteria you will need later on to break down fish wastes into less harmful compounds. keep the filter running all the time. Right now you won't need lights, unless you do buy a plant at the lfs.

Good luck, and keep on asking those questions, cause it means you'll be doing everything right and enjoying the success of it!


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## Cory_Dad (Apr 18, 2008)

ameekplec, you forgot to tell him how long he needs to cycle his tank for. I bet the poor guy is thinking he's going to be raising a plant. 

Tanked, what ameekplec is trying to do is get your tank cycled. That is, build up the 'good' bacteria in your filter that will take the ammonia from the water being produced by the rotting vegetable matter and from the ammonia in the tap water. Ammonia will quickly kill your fish. These bacteria transform the ammonia into nitrite, which will also quickly kill your fish BUT will be transformed into nitrate by other 'good bacteria'. Nitrate is less toxic to fish than the previous 2 so on a weekly basis you will drain 25% of the water form your tank and replace it with tap water that has been treated with a dechlorination agent, like Seachem's Prime. This will lower the nitrate concentration.

How do you tell if your tank is cycled? Well, the best way is with ammonia, nitrite and nitrate test kits. Test for ammonia and when it registers, test for nitrite. When that registers test for nitrate. When that registers test for ammonia and nitrate. When those 2 give readings of 0 ppm then your tank is cycled. This can take upwards of 4 weeks when you start from scratch. If you have a 'friend' with a cycled filter, ask him for some bacteria juice to seed your filter. When he cleans his filter and replaces say, a sponge, ask if you can have the squeezed out juice (better yet, get the sponge). Soak your sponge in the juice for an hour or so then put it all back into your filter.

Although this is a great site for info, I suggest you go to the library or book store and read up on the basics. There are also a lot of excellent web sites. Be careful though, some of the information might be dated or just plain wrong so don't really on just one source.

This is probably starting to scare you (OMG what have I gotten into?!) but relax and have fun. It's really not that difficult. And remember, we're here pulling for you.

Cheers.


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## Calmer (Mar 9, 2008)

The white powder on the inside of the tank is probably salt deposits. Use vinegar to help rub it off.


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## Tanked (Sep 9, 2008)

Cory_Dad said:


> ameekplec, you forgot to tell him how long he needs to cycle his tank for. I bet the poor guy is thinking he's going to be raising a plant.
> 
> Tanked, what ameekplec is trying to do is get your tank cycled. That is, build up the 'good' bacteria in your filter that will take the ammonia from the water being produced by the rotting vegetable matter and from the ammonia in the tap water. Ammonia will quickly kill your fish. These bacteria transform the ammonia into nitrite, which will also quickly kill your fish BUT will be transformed into nitrate by other 'good bacteria'. Nitrate is less toxic to fish than the previous 2 so on a weekly basis you will drain 25% of the water form your tank and replace it with tap water that has been treated with a dechlorination agent, like Seachem's Prime. This will lower the nitrate concentration.
> 
> ...


I read the newby thing about getting the fresh water tank setup and I more or less understand the idea of cycling.. I was thinking of throwing a few small ferns in there to speed up the process a little bit?? I have coral 50/50 bulbs so I'm pretty sure I can grow.. thanks for the help  


Calmer said:


> The white powder on the inside of the tank is probably salt deposits. Use vinegar to help rub it off.


Vinegar wont harm my fish or screw up my cycling process? 


ameekplec. said:


> Well, it's a good start to rinse it out. You didn't have to use salt though.
> 
> One word to the wise before we get going: take everything the LFS (local fish store) staff with a grain of....salt  They aren't always the most knowledgeable people out there.
> 
> ...


Figures spent 4hrs washing everything twice ... Im gonna slap 3 or 4 ferns in there as again the fish store guy told me there easy to grow .

I sorta understand the cycling process As I have read the "how-too" sticky in the fresh water forum.

This is the gravel I have not sure what fish I wanna go with yet so I tryed to pick a neutral colour.


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## Cory_Dad (Apr 18, 2008)

Vinegar is basically acetic acid. It'll lower your pH which in a new tank with no fish probably won't matter. Neither will the salt that's in the tank already from your saltwater wash.

If your worried, drain the water then add fresh water and forget about the vinegar; the salt should already be dissolved in the water and will get dumped out.

Add your plants. I don't think that live plants will necessarily speed up the cycling process as they too consume ammonia (and nitrate) so that would hinder getting the good bacteria started. But at least they're nice to look at while you are waiting. 

Another option is to add a few small fish and monitor very closely, doing water changes when the ammonia/nitrite/nitrate starts to creep up. In a 20 gallon tank with plants a couple of small fish don't produce a lot of ammonia. Zebra danios are pretty hardy fish for this. But if you do this, please make sure the water is clean (no salt, no vinegar) and please pre-treat it with dechlor before adding the fish.

Cheers.


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## Tanked (Sep 9, 2008)

Cory_Dad said:


> Vinegar is basically acetic acid. It'll lower your pH which in a new tank with no fish probably won't matter. Neither will the salt that's in the tank already from your saltwater wash.
> 
> If your worried, drain the water then add fresh water and forget about the vinegar; the salt should already be dissolved in the water and will get dumped out.
> 
> ...


I'm currently washing the Gravel.. don't know if its needed?. Eh I dont think ill add any fish would hate to kill it for something that's just going to take a little time. I just wiped the White powder out with a wet towel came off fine.

Already bought the pretreater and have 10gallons setting 

Thanks again.


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## Calmer (Mar 9, 2008)

Sorry I didn't know you added the water already. Vinegar is only for cleaning surfaces outside the water column.


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## Tanked (Sep 9, 2008)

Calmer said:


> Sorry I didn't know you added the water already. Vinegar is only for cleaning surfaces outside the water column.


No it's my mistake, I haven't added any water other than the Aquarium salt water which I let soak over night and is now drained


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Yay natural coloured gravel!!!

The plants I mentioned before (which includes the fern) grow very slowly, and do not use their roots mainly for nutrient absorbtion, unlike terrestrial plants. Actually many aquatic plants get most of their nutrients through the leaves. The ferns, don't stick them into the substrate. Tie them to a rock or a piece of driftwood, as the rhizome (the stalk basically) of the plant needs to be exposed for it to grow. Use fishing line or cotton thread, and just tie it on there. Eventually the roots will take a hold of the rock/wood and you can cut the string away.

IMO, plants can and do speed up the cycle. They import a lot of bacteria, and supply a fair amount of decaying organic matter (enough for the bacteria to live and multiply off of).


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## Tanked (Sep 9, 2008)

ameekplec. said:


> Yay natural coloured gravel!!!
> 
> The plants I mentioned before (which includes the fern) grow very slowly, and do not use their roots mainly for nutrient absorbtion, unlike terrestrial plants. Actually many aquatic plants get most of their nutrients through the leaves. The ferns, don't stick them into the substrate. Tie them to a rock or a piece of driftwood, as the rhizome (the stalk basically) of the plant needs to be exposed for it to grow. Use fishing line or cotton thread, and just tie it on there. Eventually the roots will take a hold of the rock/wood and you can cut the string away.
> 
> IMO, plants can and do speed up the cycle. They import a lot of bacteria, and supply a fair amount of decaying organic matter (enough for the bacteria to live and multiply off of).


Soo that's a decent gravel for most fish?

I got a big ole peice of drift wood with some holes in it, would it be ok to slide the plant into one of the holes? Btw what kinda fish is that in your avatar?

Thanks for all the help!


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

The fish in my avatar is a zebra pleco fry. Maybe something you'll want to work up to  (with any luck, you've just been bitten by the pleco bug. It is worse than MTS, IMO)

Here's a seller on aquabid of zebras:
http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?disp&viewseller&Zebraplecos

Yes, sliding them plants into the holes will work fine.

To see more neat plecos, check out here:
http://planetcatfish.com/catelog/numbers.php?mode=l&thumbs=16


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## Tanked (Sep 9, 2008)

ameekplec. said:


> The fish in my avatar is a zebra pleco fry. Maybe something you'll want to work up to  (with any luck, you've just been bitten by the pleco bug. It is worse than MTS, IMO)
> 
> Here's a seller on aquabid of zebras:
> http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?disp&viewseller&Zebraplecos
> ...


Whoa!!!! wtf the cheapest fish was 2500! 








I love this one


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

There's lots of them to love 

I currently only have these:
5x L081
3x L260
5x L134 (L211 looks like them  )
4x L046 
6 or 7 otos
2x Ancistrus sp3.
2x farlowella vitatta
1x chaestome milesi


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## planter (Jun 9, 2008)

ameekplec. said:


> There's lots of them to love
> 
> I currently only have these:
> 5x L081
> ...


That's an impressive collection I should have seen your setup when I picked up that tank off you weeks back


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## Tanked (Sep 9, 2008)

ameekplec. said:


> There's lots of them to love
> 
> I currently only have these:
> *5x L081*
> ...


Those two are aswome.. are they fresh or salt water?

What are those suckers worth?


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

All plecs are FW  Covet away!

A lot of plecos are hard to come by, as the bigger stores don't want to spend money to bring them in. The best place in Toronto to get them is a chinese store called Lucky's Aquarium. They have a website, look them up (they're at market village, next to pacific mall @ kennedy + steeles)
Or look for hobbyist classifieds. 

Anyways, when I got them, my group of 5 L081s cost me $100 (At the time I thought that was expensive for fish....), and the L260 for the trio cost me in total about $130. And the L046.....not telling. They're not cheap fish, but definitely worth it


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## Cory_Dad (Apr 18, 2008)

ameekplec. said:


> All plecs are FW  Covet away!
> 
> A lot of plecos are hard to come by, as the bigger stores don't want to spend money to bring them in. The best place in Toronto to get them is a chinese store called Lucky's Aquarium. They have a website, look them up (they're at market village, next to pacific mall @ kennedy + steeles)
> Or look for hobbyist classifieds.
> ...


Bah! Plecs may be pretty to look at but you just can't beat a shoal of Corydorus for entertainment and enjoyment, IM(not so)HO.


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## Tanked (Sep 9, 2008)

ameekplec. said:


> All plecs are FW  Covet away!
> 
> A lot of plecos are hard to come by, as the bigger stores don't want to spend money to bring them in. The best place in Toronto to get them is a chinese store called Lucky's Aquarium. They have a website, look them up (they're at market village, next to pacific mall @ kennedy + steeles)
> Or look for hobbyist classifieds.
> ...


Currently trying to find there site
 Hmm would you say my tank is big enough for one or two?

Interested in selling some off your collection off?


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## Cory_Dad (Apr 18, 2008)

Some plecs get pretty big so be careful what you get unless you plan on getting a much bigger tank later on or selling them.


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## Tanked (Sep 9, 2008)

Cory_Dad said:


> Some plecs get pretty big so be careful what you get unless you plan on getting a much bigger tank later on or selling them.


 phuck this day is filled with confusion!.. Fish store idiot told me a fish will only grow to the size of its enviroment


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## Cory_Dad (Apr 18, 2008)

Really?! Heck, I'm going to go out and get me some baby Lake Trout to put into my 10 gallon. They'll look real cute...

Ya, that's BS. They'll grow slower and be a bit stunted, but a 2 foot fish will eventually get close to that unless the tank is so small it dies first.


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## Tanked (Sep 9, 2008)

Cory_Dad said:


> Really?! Heck, I'm going to go out and get me some baby Lake Trout to put into my 10 gallon. They'll look real cute...
> 
> Ya, that's BS. They'll grow slower and be a bit stunted, but a 2 foot fish will eventually get close to that unless the tank is so small it dies first.


Good thing I didn't take that dipshits advice... Seriously if you wanted to put a perch it would be fine they dont get overly large 3lb at the most!


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

A perch in a 10 g would still be too small. I'd say you'd need at least a 30 or 35g (3 footer for them)....

The plecos, yes several of them get very large, so it's best to do your research before getting into any of them. That being said, there are a lot of them that stay small and you could easily keep a pair or even trio in your 20g tank.

Lucky's website:
http://www.luckyaquarium.com/

@LFS employees, most have no idea what they're talking about. Never completely trust an employee.

Cory_dad, cories are amusing to watch, but I find plecs have so much more individual personality, and come a hell of a lot more vibrantly patterned and coloured 

And get your own damned plecs!  Once you start.....


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## Cory_Dad (Apr 18, 2008)

ameekplec. said:


> Cory_dad, cories are amusing to watch, but I find plecs have so much more individual personality, and come a hell of a lot more vibrantly patterned and coloured
> 
> And get your own damned plecs!  Once you start.....


OH YA? What about the lasers?

But, if you're willing to give me 1 or 2 plecs to 'try' maybe you could convince me....

(Isn't this how drug dealers work?)


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

I'm pretty sure it is, but I'm not sure how to slip you a pleco during a hand shake.

The lasers are cool, just because they're so active during the day, but I find I can't ever pick one out of all of them. 

Plecos like to sleep. Like me.


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## Cory_Dad (Apr 18, 2008)

ameekplec. said:


> I'm pretty sure it is, but I'm not sure how to slip you a pleco during a hand shake.


Um, in a bag? Preferably with some water in it too.

I don't think is going to go anywhere. Well, I tried.


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## Tanked (Sep 9, 2008)

ameekplec. said:


> A perch in a 10 g would still be too small. I'd say you'd need at least a 30 or 35g (3 footer for them)....
> 
> The plecos, yes several of them get very large, so it's best to do your research before getting into any of them. That being said, there are a lot of them that stay small and you could easily keep a pair or even trio in your 20g tank.
> 
> ...


Seriously considering a pleco or two.. if you could provide the names of the ones that dont get overly large Ill do the rest off my research

www.luckyaquarium.com << just checked them out and there isn't a damn thing on there site just 6 or 7 bags off food..

Thanks for the help


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

You can keep a pair or a trio if you push it of any of these:
http://planetcatfish.com/catelog/se...temp_max=&tempunit=deg_c&order=id&results=100

Plecs are addictive. But just one thing: they are best introduced into established systems, as they produce a fair amount of waste and can be a strain on a new tank. Go slow and you will be rewarded with happy fish.


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## Tanked (Sep 9, 2008)

ameekplec. said:


> You can keep a pair or a trio if you push it of any of these:
> http://planetcatfish.com/catelog/se...temp_max=&tempunit=deg_c&order=id&results=100
> 
> Plecs are addictive. But just one thing: they are best introduced into established systems, as they produce a fair amount of waste and can be a strain on a new tank. Go slow and you will be rewarded with happy fish.


Awesome! Thank you very much ameekplec!! Did a ton of research on these suckers last night and I've narrowed it down to two or three

1) Zebra/ Imperial pleco
2)Gold stripe panaque
3) Queen arbesque pleco

Now are these fish capable of living together if so I'd like one off each  thanks again


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Well, great choices! Great looking fish too.

Now for the bad news.

Choice #1: Fry (1 - 1.5 inches) will cost you at the very least $150. Adults have been seen to sell for over $1500USD for a proven female breeder. Not cheap fish, and not recommended for plec newbies.

Choice #2: Good choice. Have lots of driftwood (they eat it), and a good filtration system. Panaques make a lot of poo. A lot of sawdust.
If you can't find them, try looking for clown plecos. They can usually be had at any LFS and sell for between 7 and 10 bucks, and stay small. A good beginner fancy plec.
Also, check out leopard frog plecs (L134). If you like them, I know there's one guy in Etobicoke that breeds them. I got mine from him. pm me if you want to contact him.

Choice #3: Great choice!!! Hard to come by, but not impossible. I think I may have bough the last 3 to be available in Toronto for the last while, as I have not seen any since the beginning of the summer. Great looking plec!

Here's a recent shot of my trio (I think it is 1M [top left] 2F) Hoping they breed soon. I even bought them caves from Germany to see if that floats their boat and gets them in the mood  :









Good luck getting your plecs!! It'll become an addiction for sure


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## Tanked (Sep 9, 2008)

ameekplec. said:


> Well, great choices! Great looking fish too.
> 
> Now for the bad news.
> 
> ...


1500!!! hwat! is a damned fish!.

Have had no luck locating number 1 and 2 but big al's in Whitby will order in number 3 for me for $50 a fish..

I tried calling that lucky s place and no one's answering the phone dunno what gives..

I have been making phone calls since i got home from work trying to find plecs I like and the main problem I'm having is there's about 40 names for each fish and no one has any idea what your talking about!

The Frog plecs look great and if you wouldnt mind I'd love his number!
How big does those ones get and what colour are they the zebra colour or the yellow? And what do i feed em cant find anything on google 

Working on the tank as we speak


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## planter (Jun 9, 2008)

try posting an article on pricenetwork.com. 

I know a few guys that are into plecos. I could ask a few people for you if your are serious about getting some.


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## Tanked (Sep 9, 2008)

planter said:


> try posting an article on pricenetwork.com.
> 
> I know a few guys that are into plecos. I could ask a few people for you if your are serious about getting some.


Im 100% sure what I want to put in my tank yet but plecos are defiantly up there.. I'm not sure just something about them, If you wouldnt mind asking that would be great. Thanks A lot you guys for all the help thus far


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## planter (Jun 9, 2008)

No problem. All of us need help from time to time. All of us started out much like you are now. This hobby has a steep learning curve and you will find that you will never find it boring if you keep on wanting to learn or try new things. Once you get the hang of things and start learning, I'm sure you will offer advice to those who need it.


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## Tanked (Sep 9, 2008)

planter said:


> No problem. All of us need help from time to time. All of us started out much like you are now. This hobby has a steep learning curve and you will find that you will never find it boring if you keep on wanting to learn or try new things. Once you get the hang of things and start learning, I'm sure you will offer advice to those who need it.


 Thanks. I plan on sticking around here until they kick me off , And while this has been much more work setting up a fish tank than I anticipate I can't say I havent enjoyed it, too be hounst its quite relaxing working on a fish tank for an hour or two.  I'd be happy so share what limited knowledge I have but that will come with time.

Hey what kind off plecos do those guys that your friends with breed/sell


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Lucky's tends to be bad with customer service. They are Chinese. If you're not Chinese, and looking to spend lots, people have had trouble with them.

I however am not Chinese (but am often mistaken for it), never bought anything from the store, but still manage to get attention and my questions answered.

Anyways, wow, great to hear that BA whitby can get them in. Good luck with them! If you do get them, remember, they are carnivores and like a meaty diet. Get them the appropriate foods.

In terms of info on plecs and plec keeping, have a read over the plec keeping pages on planetcatfish. definitely considered one of the best english language places on info about any catfish.

Leopard frog plecs are yellow with brown-black bands. Look them up on pc. L134. They eat pretty much anything, veggie and meaty, but lean towards the meatier side of things. Give things like bloodworms and shrimp pellets.

There are a lot of plec keepers even on this site  I'm sure sooner or later another will chime in about what to get and how to keep them. Katalyst breeds several bushynose sp's too.

Definitely go with the plecs! You'll love them  What else is in the works?


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## Tanked (Sep 9, 2008)

ameekplec. said:


> Lucky's tends to be bad with customer service. They are Chinese. If you're not Chinese, and looking to spend lots, people have had trouble with them.
> 
> I however am not Chinese (but am often mistaken for it), never bought anything from the store, but still manage to get attention and my questions answered.
> 
> ...


Big al's said they will bring them In now weather or not they do is a different story. The guy I talked too on the phone knew about as much as I do and that aint a whole helluva lot.. So if I can find a private breeder that isnt too far I'd rather go the route.

As far as what else I have in mind is mainly killifish or plecos its a toss up but more than likely Im going with the plecos provided I can find the ones I want.. If not the killifish arnt a bad sacrifice


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Plecs and killies won't go together well as killies like little to no current. Plecs like lots to ridiculous amounts of current. An argument ensues.

BA people generally do not know plecs. I would be surprised to see if they can get them, as I have been asking at my local BA for quite some time now, and they never seem to be able to get them.

As far as private breeders of anything other than bushynose plecs? the leopard frog plec guy is the only one I know of doing anything other than ancistrus species, besides the two Zebra pleco breeders I know in southern ontario. Hopefully I can join the hypan breeding ranks


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## Tanked (Sep 9, 2008)

ameekplec. said:


> Plecs and killies won't go together well as killies like little to no current. Plecs like lots to ridiculous amounts of current. An argument ensues.
> 
> BA people generally do not know plecs. I would be surprised to see if they can get them, as I have been asking at my local BA for quite some time now, and they never seem to be able to get them.
> 
> As far as private breeders of anything other than bushynose plecs? the leopard frog plec guy is the only one I know of doing anything other than ancistrus species, besides the two Zebra pleco breeders I know in southern ontario. Hopefully I can join the hypan breeding ranks


No,no,no,no Wasn't going too mix the two, those were just the two types of fish I was interested in.

Well buddy told me on the phone if I dropped by he'd give me a list of the plecos available to them so I think im gonna drop by tomorrow, Ill forward the list to you if I get it.

Bushynose damn thats one ugly fish,  woodja mind giving up the frog breeders info.. I like the size and colour of em 

If you start breeding withing the next month or so I'd be happy to be yer first customer


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## planter (Jun 9, 2008)

Tanked said:


> Thanks. I plan on sticking around here until they kick me off , And while this has been much more work setting up a fish tank than I anticipate I can't say I havent enjoyed it, too be hounst its quite relaxing working on a fish tank for an hour or two.  I'd be happy so share what limited knowledge I have but that will come with time.
> 
> Hey what kind off plecos do those guys that your friends with breed/sell


I'm not sure what they have. I never looked myself. I've always liked plecos but they never seem to fit with what I have. I tried bristlenosed plecos before but I wasn't able to keep them alive. I may try them again down the road.


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