# Healthy Planted Tank=Algae Free Tank?? How??



## 03pilot (Oct 7, 2010)

"In a healthy planted tank with proper lighting, CO2 injection and abundant of all necessary Macro and Micro nutrient, *plants out compete algae for nutrient thus algae has no chance to survive*."

The above is the common answer I get from reading all over the internet. But here is the part that I didn't quite understand. Algae needs pretty much the same things as plants: nutrients, CO2 and light. Algae also benefit from iron, potassium, manganese, nitrates and phosphates, just like plants do. In other words, when you improve living conditions for your desirable plants, you also improve living conditions for algae. So what is actually happening in a healthy planted tank that minimizing algae growth? I think I have found a reasonable answer to that (of course its not from me&#8230;from my reading..LOL) but I would love to hear your thoughts on this first. Please don't laugh if you already know the answer. I am a slow learner. I just need your confirmation!!


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## ubr0ke (Jul 12, 2011)

03pilot said:


> "In a healthy planted tank with proper lighting, CO2 injection and abundant of all necessary Macro and Micro nutrient, *plants out compete algae for nutrient thus algae has no chance to survive*."
> 
> The above is the common answer I get from reading all over the internet. But here is the part that I didn't quite understand. Algae needs pretty much the same things as plants: nutrients, CO2 and light. Algae also benefit from iron, potassium, manganese, nitrates and phosphates, just like plants do. In other words, when you improve living conditions for your desirable plants, you also improve living conditions for algae. So what actually happening in a healthy planted tank that minimizing algae growth? I think I have found a reasonable answer to that (of course its not from me&#8230;from my reading..LOL) but I would love to hear your thoughts on this first. Please don't laugh if you already know the answer. I am a slow learner. I just need your confirmation!!


since you reposted ill answer this here...

Algae needs triggers to start it's life cycle..macro's and micro's have nothing to do with these triggers...but can help algae once established but only when conditions do not favour plants..

for example..algae can be triggered by high organics..high organics lower oxygen levels..which favour algae not plants..

too high of a bioload can cause nh4 spikes..plants can use nh4 but only in small amounts..lets say 0.8ppm..anything higher favours algae..

low or fluctiating co2 levels..plants need constant high levels in high light..or consistantly low levels in low light..plants will adapt to low co2 as long as it remains constant..but light drives co2 demand so if you have high light and low co2 levels..algae will out compete plants..think of it like having too much energy but not enough appetite for the food you provided..the plants will start to use what is stored but as soon as that runs out...they stunt...algae takes over..

low nutrients will also trigger algae..plants need food..if that isnt around..algae wins once again..

plants are superior to algae..think of it like plants are the predator and algae are the scavangers..If you supply plants with everything they need to keep eating then the scavanger never has a chance..

algae needs far less then plants to survive but only can start a lifecycle when certain conditions are met..In a healthy tank these conditions do not occur..In a tank with any of the conditions i mention earlier are present...the tank is no longer healthy and algae wins..


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## coldmantis (Apr 5, 2010)

ubr0ke said:


> since you reposted ill answer this here...
> 
> Algae needs triggers to start it's life cycle..macro's and micro's have nothing to do with these triggers...but can help algae once established but only when conditions do not favour plants..
> 
> ...


ahhhhhhhhhh my head, bring back my plastic plants!!!!!


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## 03pilot (Oct 7, 2010)

ubr0ke said:


> since you reposted ill answer this here...
> 
> Algae needs triggers to start it's life cycle..macro's and micro's have nothing to do with these triggers...but can help algae once established but only when conditions do not favour plants..
> 
> ...


I didn't want to hijack Alex's thread so I started a new one here. Thanks as always for your valuable input!! You gave me all the ingredients already. I think we are getting there. I have a scenario here maybe you can help me out?

Let's assume you keep a planted tank and you are following EI dosing, as usual you always make sure there is more nutrient than all your plants need. Your plants and all inhabitants are happy and there is no visible algae in the tank. But for whatever reasons, you need to add 15 fishes in your 20 gallon tank all at once. Your bioload is going to increase and phosphate level will skyrocket to a level far more than your plants can absorb. Naturally algae will start to show in this new environment. What would you do in this case to bring the balance back to your tank?

Thanks again!!


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## ubr0ke (Jul 12, 2011)

haha...I could get into a lot more but thats a start..


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## 03pilot (Oct 7, 2010)

ubr0ke said:


> haha...I could get into a lot more but thats a start..


I know you can...LOL! You must be a chemist/biologist. And a really good one!


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## 03pilot (Oct 7, 2010)

My question is open to anyone interested.


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## ubr0ke (Jul 12, 2011)

no im a millwright hahah..

the answer to your question..phosphates are not really your issue but nh4 is..
if you can add a filter..do large water changes every other day for a week or 2..add more plants..add purigen to your filter..increase co2..less light..spot treat with excel or hydrogen peroxide, nuke ur tank with potassium permanganate..

i dont know there are many solutions...
dont be afraid to prune algae covered leaves..they grow back..once ur conditions are right the algae will stop..it may not die but it will stop spreading..thats when u prune.


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## 03pilot (Oct 7, 2010)

ubr0ke said:


> no im a millwright hahah..
> 
> the answer to your question..phosphates are not really your issue but nh4 is..
> if you can add a filter..do large water changes every other day for a week or 2..add more plants..add purigen to your filter..increase co2..less light..spot treat with excel or hydrogen peroxide, nuke ur tank with potassium permanganate..
> ...


Well yes, nh4 is an immediate issue but that's not what I am getting at. Let's assume I add another biofilter with all the beneficial bacteria needed to break down all the additional toxins. I am more interested to know what needs to be done to bring the balance back in the long run for plants grow and no algae. I like" add more plants". What else need to be done here?


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## ubr0ke (Jul 12, 2011)

after adding another biofilter, what makes you think it will not balance out..it may balance out in time without adding another filter..

as for phosphates..what do you test with..is your test calibrated..
kh2po4 is inorganic..fish waste is organic phosphate..you can filter organics without effecting inorganics..purigen


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## 03pilot (Oct 7, 2010)

Please allow me to attempt to answer my own question based on my short online research. They are not my own answers so please don't shoot the messenger. But I think its reasonable and worth consideration. Please let me know if you disagree. I am very open minded...and has the appetite to learn from anyone. 

A heavily planted tank with plenty of nutrients, CO2, and lighting provides a perfect environment for our desirable plants to grow, unfortunately algae needs pretty much the same environment too. However, there is one nutrient that plants need in lesser quantities than algae. That nutrient is phosphates. So if we are able limit the amount of phosphates in our tank, just enough for the desirable plants, the growth of algae can be effectively controlled.

Phosphates (PO4) are present in every aquarium, Organic phosphates come from uneaten food, plant decay, dying algae, fish feces, dead fish, pH buffers, and even water itself. Bacterial action is constantly mineralizing organic phosphates into Soluble Reactive Phosphates (SRP), a form that can be consumed by plants and algae.

So our objective is clear, we need to focus on how to provide a perfect environment for plant growth while limiting phosphates. It can be achieved by the following:

[*]Employ EI dosing or choose a plant nutrient supplement that has moderate amounts of iron, adequate potassium, other trace elements that encourage healthy plant growth, but one which is low on PO4.

[*]Reduce dosage of KH2PO4

[*]Use proper and consistent lighting based on plants' requirement, 2 wpg is generally ideal

[*]Use proper and consistent CO2 injection based on lighting level to facilitates photosynthesis, 10 - 15 ppm is ideal

[*]Grow enough plants to take up unnecessary phosphates

[*]Reduce fish population

[*]Reduce uneaten food, plant decay, use of buffers and chemicals that contain phosphates

[*]Regular water changes to prevent buildup of undesired nutrients

[*]Do not disturb phosphate enriched substrate which may cause phosphate leach into the water column
[/LIST]

Planted tank is a dynamic environment and things within are constantly changing. We have plants growth, plants died, fishes being added, fishes dying, food leftover etc happening every hour. Its impossible to gauge the nutrient requirement of the tank every day. EI dosing is an estimated method aiming to provide an average planted tank more than enough nutrient required by desirable plants to grow well. When plants grow well, it uses up most of phosphates in the tank and make it hard for algae to grow. When plants alone cannot used up the phosphate surplus, we'll then need to some of the extra steps above to reduce it.

Related links
http://www.yamatogreen.com/algaecontrol.htm
http://www.freshwateraquariumplants.com/freshwateraquariumalgae.html


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## ubr0ke (Jul 12, 2011)

03pilot said:


> Please allow me to attempt to answer my own question based on my short online research. They are not my own answers so please don't shoot the messenger. But I think its reasonable and worth consideration. Please let me know if you disagree. I am very open minded...and has the appetite to learn from anyone.
> 
> A heavily planted tank with plenty of nutrients, CO2, and lighting provides a perfect environment for our desirable plants to grow, unfortunately algae needs pretty much the same environment too. However, there is one nutrient that plants need in lesser quantities than algae. That nutrient is phosphates. So if we are able limit the amount of phosphates in our tank, just enough for the desirable plants, the growth of algae can be effectively controlled.
> 
> ...


old news..look into liebegs law of minimums..by limiting phosphates all you are doing is reducing co2 demand..ppmd suggested limiting phosphates in the 90's..infact ei is just ppmd + phosphates...by upping co2 to 40+ppm you eliminate the need to limit phosphates...

I could go through how the phosphate myth was de-bunked...but im sure you could google it yourself..


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## 03pilot (Oct 7, 2010)

ubr0ke said:


> old news..look into liebegs law of minimums..by limiting phosphates all you are doing is reducing co2 demand..ppmd suggested limiting phosphates in the 90's..infact ei is just ppmd + phosphates...by upping co2 to 40+ppm you eliminate the need to limit phosphates...
> 
> I could go through how the phosphate myth was de-bunked...but im sure you could google it yourself..


Thank you! Yes, its nothing new and I know that. Sorry for my ignorance. What is ppmd? Can you explain your view in layman's term? Do you see problem with my interpretation?

Why would you "upping co2 to 40+ppm you eliminate the need to limit phosphates..."?

Thanks!


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## 03pilot (Oct 7, 2010)

OK. got it. You are talking about PMDD - Poor Man's Dosing Drops. Now I have more reading to do.

I am trying to break down what you are saying:
by limiting phosphates all you are doing is reducing co2 demand.
Reducing plant's Co2 demand? Not quite understand this one....

ppmd suggested limiting phosphates in the 90's
_ok.
Original PMDD?

1 Teaspoon Potassium Nitrate
2 Teaspoons Potassium Sulphate
2.5 Tablespoons Magnesium Sulphate (Epsom salts)
1 Tablespoon Chelated Trace Element Mix (7% Fe, 1.3% B, 2% Mn, 0.06% Mo, 0.4% Zn, 0.1% Cu, EDTA, DTPA)
300 ml distilled H2O

On the Krib website there is a formulation for Conlin and Sears' latest PMDD formula which is slightly different.
1 Tablespoon Potassium Nitrate
2 Tablespoons Potassium Sulphate
1 Tablespoon Magnesium Sulphate (Epsom salts)
1 Tablespoon Chelated Trace Element Mix (7% Fe, 1.3% B, 2% Mn, 0.06% Mo, 0.4% Zn, 0.1% Cu, EDTA, DTPA)
500 ml distilled H2O _

infact ei is just ppmd + phosphates
_ok EI added KH2PO4
_
...by upping co2 to 40+ppm you eliminate the need to limit phosphates...
_With EI dosing, I thought our co2 target is 15 - 20ppm for optimal plant growth??_


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## 03pilot (Oct 7, 2010)

Thank you. So PMDD is the theory behind my previous readings. Yes, its nothing new to you but its a revelation to me. Do you support this theory? Can I sum this up by saying:

1) Prime objective is to supply the plants in the aquarium with all the necessary nutrients, but to restrict phosphate as a means to control algae. Phosphates must be restricted, but not eliminated, otherwise the plants will start to die. The level of dosing is dependant on your plant stocking level.

2) Once lighting and co2 target levels are set, they remain constant

http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/PMDD.htm


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## vrb th hrb (Feb 20, 2010)

this is a great thread btw

i'm always fighting a back and forth battle with algae. been considering getting pressurized co2 for a while now, but want to solve the algae problem first


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## ubr0ke (Jul 12, 2011)

03pilot said:


> Thank you. So PMDD is the theory behind my previous readings. Yes, its nothing new to you but its a revelation to me. Do you support this theory? Can I sum this up by saying:
> 
> 1) Prime objective is to supply the plants in the aquarium with all the necessary nutrients, but to restrict phosphate as a means to control algae. Phosphates must be restricted, but not eliminated, otherwise the plants will start to die. The level of dosing is dependant on your plant stocking level.
> 
> ...


No I do not support this theory..

Since nutrients are LIMITING with PMDD, PO4 specifically, the effects on CO2 are also present. CO2 at 10-15ppm at low light and under strong PO4 limitation will work.

However, adding PO4 will induce a number of algal species in this system.

To test whether it is really PO4 limitation that is causing algae to be controlled, we must ensure that CO2 is also not limiting and scaled up when the PO4 concentration is increased.

Many aquarists see that adding PO4 or allowing it to become higher= algae blooms for their systems, yet cannot explain why other aquarist can have high PO4 without any trace of algae for years, even at low, medium and very high light intensities.

This reduced CO2 dependency due to strong limitations of nutrients (PO4 is one of the better nutrients to chose), is based on Liebig's Law of the minimum.
If PO4 is strongly limiting, adding more CO2 will do nothing to enhance the rates of growth. You can add all the CO2 in the world and the plants will not grow more, the PO4 is the bottle neck, not CO2.

Still, the aquarist who finds management of PO4 = less algae will remain unconvinced, yet have a conflict with other aquarist that have high PO4 and no algae. However, simply because they chose or cannot maintain good higher CO2 along with higher PO4, does not imply they are correct.

Some people simply do whatever works for them and are resistant to change or learning a new method that addresses balances of light, CO2 and nutrients and scaling up or down depending on light intensity etc.

There is nothing wrong with that.
However, to suggest to other hobbyists that it is the cure and the root cause for controlling algae is......well.............very poor logic and even poorer experimental test protocol.

I suggest hobbyists keep good plant growth and algae in 2 separate groups.
PMDD address plant growth perhaps more than algae control.
PPS does something very similar to PMDD, as does Redfield ratio, MCI, and few other methods aimed at controlling algae through nutrients, mostly all of them have one central component: limit PO4.

What does PO4 limitation do?
Is it really limiting algae?
No, not really.

That metric is extremely low, beyond the limits of test kits and methods used in the hobby. Less than 10 parts per Billion.

So what is occurring?
Well, using Liebig's law, we see that PO4 is more strongly limiting than CO2.
Thus the plants are better able to handle and withstand PO4 limitation, than CO2 limitation. This is a plant issue, not an algae issue.

We can go back and instead of limiting plants and forcing them to reduce their CO2 demands via PO4 limitation, we can add CO2 at a higher rate and also add more PO4 at a much higher rate. So CO2 and P4 are both non limiting.

If you only test one side of the coin, you leave yourself open to false conclusions, even if they might work to cure the algae, they do not explain why the algae is gone nor are able to explain why other observations show that high PO4 also does not induce algae.

So what does induce algae growth?
This is a different question that how to get rid of algae.
Very different and specific.

The answer/s is/are not as nice. They are specific to each and every species of algae. They involve space and time (Ecology), light, CO2........and nutrients.........as well as the status of the plants.

How might we test for algae inducement independent of good plant health?
1. You must have a reference control. This means a nice well run tank with plants, no algae and non limiting CO2 AND NUTRIENTS. Light can be easily manipulated for PAR and is the growth rate determination when CO2/nutrients are non limiting(up to a point where metabolic growth rates can longer be increased, the maximal yield).

2. Test light, go from the lowest possible to highest possible PAR. Vary and adjust the duration. Can light manipulation control algae the same way that PO4 limitation can? Certainly and better even. By reducing light intensity, this also reduces CO2 demand(there will be difference depending on how strong of a reduction light or PO4 might be for each case). Still, most aquarist have long noted reducing light intensity "cures algae". Why this is still is based around "Light= drives CO2 demand= drives nutrient demand".

If you limit nutrients strongly, then adding all the CO2 and light will not change the rates of growth, likewise, if you limit light, then attaining ample CO2 and nutrient is much easier as well, algae also grow slower, since their only limitation is really light intensity.

3. Test CO2. This is more difficult. CO2 measure is the hardest parameter to come to grips with. By adding good ample known PAR intensity for a plant, and non limiting nutrients, now we can test CO2 effectively. We may also add sediment types to this, both plain sand and enriched soils, to see if sediments play a role or not and to add as a back up for nutrient limitations/preferences within the root zones as well as the water column.

Since light and nutrients are independent, CO2 is the only dependent variable.
By adjusting CO2, we can induce and cause germination of dozens of species of algae.

Only when there is dependence on other variables with PO4 limitation control methods, do we see algae issues(Say adding PO4 to 2-3 ppm).

This suggest it is CO2, not PO4 that is controlling germination for many algae species. Perhaps.........but it might be due to plants and Carbon uptake that signals algae to start to bloom, not CO2 directly either.

Still, we know PO4 alone cannot account for algae blooms for all systems and we know we can consistently incduce algae independent of nutrient and light with CO2. We cannot consistently induce algae with varying just the PO4 when other nutrients and CO2, light are independent.

The only conclusion is that limiting PO4 is not limit algae, rather some other cause must be present. This does NOT............discount that in some planted systems, that limiting PO4 does show a reduction in algae. but that the cause is indirect and related to CO2, not PO4. to test this, we simply add more CO2 and raise the PO4 and we no longer have algae blooms.

This still does not imply cause that CO2 is the key.
It is only 1 step closer at getting at the root cause.
From a management perspective for control of algae, CO2 is central.
The same is true in a non CO2 aquarium, CO2 stability is key.

Plants have a rough time adapting to different CO2 levels, algae do not(they are virtually never limited by CO2). Plants need to make a lot more Rubsico to adjust to lower levels, often several times more(10-20X with CO2 enriched vs no CO2) and it takes time for the plant to make these enzymes.

Changing CO2 around day to day, hour to hour, week to week the plant struggles and spends more energy adapting to CO2, than with growth, acquiring nutrients, catching light etc. In non CO2 systems, changing water frequently causes a spike in high CO2 week to week etc, done only once every few months is better.

For CO2 enriched tanks(non limiting CO2 systems), changing water has no such impact. The plants do not need to adapt to CO2 since they have ample CO2 and supply for all conditions.

We may also limit CO2 slightly and PO4 and have somewhat stable systems also, but these are harder to duplicate. Still, plants will adapt moderate levels of CO2 as long as they are stable enough for maintaining the same Rubsico concentration in the tissues.

So often,m not doing water changes (or as much) in these reduced CO2 systems(like PMDD suggested 10-15ppm) will work well and appear to reduce algae. Still, these systems are still limited by CO2, the plants have adapted, just like the non CO2 systems. As long as the CO2 is stable and does not change/vary much week to week, the plants should still grow well and reduced, but algae free.

http://barrreport.com


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## 03pilot (Oct 7, 2010)

Thank you dude!! I am so grateful you took the time to share your view. Its going to take me a while to absorb this. I'll eat them like KNO3, KH2PO4, K2SO4 & CSM+B....haha!


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## ubr0ke (Jul 12, 2011)

since you seem to enjoy the scientific side of things..I have a .pdf. for you..this will keep you busy reading for months.


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## 03pilot (Oct 7, 2010)

ubr0ke said:


> since you seem to enjoy the scientific side of things..I have a .pdf. for you..this will keep you busy reading for months.


holy s&%#. Your last post is going to take me months to fully understand. 

Its true. I really enjoy this stuff and thank you for your time again!

So far I understand what you are saying about unlimiting co2, nutrient, and PO4. Its probably useful for aquaponics or hydroponics applications. But for our hobby, there are livestock involved. Too much co2 would cause high pH and low in oxygen in the tank. A deadly environment for livestock. Can we say that in reality we need to put a limit on co2 injection? Do you know a general safe co2 limit for freshwater livestock? Since we have this limitation, can I conclude that we need to keep co2 constant at a safety level specific to my livestock list?

btw, please send me your pdf...


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## ubr0ke (Jul 12, 2011)

03pilot said:


> holy s&%#. Your last post is going to take me months to fully understand.
> 
> Its true. I really enjoy this stuff and thank you for your time again!
> 
> ...


.pdf download link is in ur mailbox..

co2 lowers ph and has no effect on oxygen levels..a tank can have both high oxygen and co2...typically 40ppm is safe for fish...light really determines whats non limiting when it comes to co2..the higher the light the higher co2 needs to be, to be non limiting..a drop checker with a 4dkh solution will get you close when solution is lime green..its around 40ppm..my advice when it comes to co2 is...slowly increase day by day until you stress your lifestock..then return to the level the day before you stressed your fish..but remember as plant mass increases so does co2 demand..


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## 03pilot (Oct 7, 2010)

ubr0ke said:


> .pdf download link is in ur mailbox..
> 
> co2 lowers ph and has no effect on oxygen levels..a tank can have both high oxygen and co2...typically 40ppm is safe for fish...light really determines whats non limiting when it comes to co2..the higher the light the higher co2 needs to be, to be non limiting..a drop checker with a 4dkh solution will get you close when solution is lime green..its around 40ppm..my advice when it comes to co2 is...slowly increase day by day until you stress your lifestock..then return to the level the day before you stressed your fish..but remember as plant mass increases so does co2 demand..


Thanks for the correction! Now back to my drawing table.


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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

Woah, that's complicated.
Just keep it simple.
- Old school thinking like PMDD, claims that an excess of phosphate is the cause of algae growth.
- New school thinking, such as EI from Tom Barr, says that phosphate may not be the cause of algae growth. Infact, in certain amount, it helps improve the plant growth.

I tend to think that phosphate excess is not the only cause of algae growth, it's a combination of several factors, with each capable of causing algae growth.

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## ubr0ke (Jul 12, 2011)

excess nutrients have nothing to with algae...99% of your algae issues can be solved with proper co2 in terms of lighting....what could be easier then that..most people run into algae due to too much light..not enough co2..

look into ppmd..it involves very precise nutrient dosing..accurate test kits are a must..thats not easy at all..or cheap..

just a side note..Tom Barr was involved with the creators of ppmd...it was his tank that proved the phosphate causes algae myth to be de-bunked..the creators of ppmd went to his house to test his tank and found the only difference between his tank and theres was co2 levels..and of course high phosphates..


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

ubr0ke said:


> excess nutrients have nothing to with algae...99% of your algae issues can be solved with proper co2 in terms of lighting....what could be easier then that..most people run into algae due to too much light..not enough co2..


That's been my experience as well. I had an outbreak of green hair algae in my tank until I put int DIY CO2. The hair algae vanished over a few weeks.

However, I think there's one thing we haven't mentioned, and it's the role of algae eaters. I think algae still keeps growing with CO2, but since plant growth is more vigorous, they:

1- Can't grow on plant leaves, like what I had during my hair algae outbreak

2- Algae gets eaten back by algae eaters while plants aren't being "predated" upon. This means that algae has to spend a lot of energy "regrowing" itself while plants don't.


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## ubr0ke (Jul 12, 2011)

solarz said:


> That's been my experience as well. I had an outbreak of green hair algae in my tank until I put int DIY CO2. The hair algae vanished over a few weeks.
> 
> However, I think there's one thing we haven't mentioned, and it's the role of algae eaters. I think algae still keeps growing with CO2, but since plant growth is more vigorous, they:
> 
> ...


yes i totally agree..a cleanup crew is very important..i keep amanos and ottos in all tanks..

intersting fact..bba didn't show up in north american tanks until around the 90's...coincendently at the same time plants from asia started being shipped here.


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## 03pilot (Oct 7, 2010)

Thank you everyone for your input. Special thanks to uBr0ke for your extra effort to teach an old dog like me new tricks. I feel I understand a lot more about EI and algae control than 2 days ago. Like uBr0ke said, what being discussed here is nothing new. There are lots and lots of discussions on this subject but be warned, there are good and bad info out there. Just like what I started here, if you only read half of the thread (i.e. the parts that I wrote), you are doomed!  OK...maybe its not that bad. But there is a better answer for sure.

If you have trouble understand what we have discussed here so far. Maybe give it one more shot by reading the following link. Tom Barr and others on plantedtank forum explained the exact same subject back in 2009. I think it was straight to the point and may be easier to understand. http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/f...eters/80641-help-me-understand-ei-dosing.html

I have been following EI dosing for about 3 months. The initial 3 weeks I dosed my tank following EI guideline religiously. I notice my plants are growing much faster, greener, and healthier. At the same time, algae started to take a hit so everything was great. Then I started to worry I'll have to spend a lot of time on trimming alone every week then I decided to scale back my EI dosing. My rationale was cutting back the nutrient dosage and co2 would slow down my plants growth at a rate to my liking. Now I know that was a bad move. Limiting nutrient interrupted photosynthesis and plant growth and leads to reduced demand on co2 during the process. I need to remember "non limiting CO2 leads to less algae". Now I know every interruptions I made hurt my plants more than I thought. Although my plants are still slowly growing but they don't seem to be as healthy as before when they were on full EI dosing. Algae is minimal but still visible after 3 months.

So until someone comes up with a better dosing method with more scientific backing than Tom Barr's theory. I am going back to proper EI dosing routine. I'll make sure I put enough nutrient and not let any nutrient bottoms out at any time, bring out my drop checker to monitor my co2 level, weekly wc. I'll report again in a few weeks time.

Effective algae control is "focus on curing the cause, not cleaning up the symptoms". (Line stolen from a member on the other thread.)


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## ubr0ke (Jul 12, 2011)

use light to limit growing rates..spread is much more important then intensity...see if a local club will do a group buy on a par meter..its just over $200...you want a par rating of 40 throught out the bottom of the tank...at 40 you can grow any plant..including "high light" carpet plants..

light is the most controllable part of keeping plants..so why not make that the limiting factor..


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## 03pilot (Oct 7, 2010)

ubr0ke said:


> use light to limit growing rates..spread is much more important then intensity...see if a local club will do a group buy on a par meter..its just over $200...you want a par rating of 40 throught out the bottom of the tank...at 40 you can grow any plant..including "high light" carpet plants..
> 
> light is the most controllable part of keeping plants..so why not make that the limiting factor..


Oh I hate the idea of drilling holes in the ceiling to hang up the light. I guess I need to re-consider now. Thanks for the tip!


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