# Machine that can change the pH 2 to 9.5



## tobalman (Mar 31, 2006)

Hi I came across the Kangen water system at around $4000 after some searching on ebay I found this one at $797 and the seller is in Ontario.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Make-Alkaline-K...all_Kitchen_Appliances_US&hash=item255dc7c2da

This alkaline water is good for human, (not too sure if it's true) I just wondering if I could use this for shrimps and plecos. If anyone have any experience with these machine please post here.

Thanks


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

In what situation would you ever have to change the tap water from a pH of 2 to 9.5? Water with a pH of 2 is barely suitable for human consumption


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## tobalman (Mar 31, 2006)

Since this is a small machine so when set at 2 pH I could mix with my tap water to fill my 40gal tank faster. And I could get a pH around 6 easily. LOL



Darkblade48 said:


> In what situation would you ever have to change the tap water from a pH of 2 to 9.5? Water with a pH of 2 is barely suitable for human consumption


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

Doesn't this machine make water more basic? From the product description, that is what it claims to do.

How would you set the machine to a pH of 2? In addition, how is this machine achieving that? If it is using chemicals, etc, then it would not be good for your fish.


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## tobalman (Mar 31, 2006)

I don't know and that is why I'm asking if anyone has any experience with type of machine. I wish to try some black water fish but don't want to do too much work hopefully this maybe an easy way out.

Here are the information that I found online, this is similar machine but cost almost 5 times.

How it works is here

http://www.enagichk.com/index.php?categoryid=18

and video demo is

http://www.yourkangenwater.org/affsites/global/player.php?m=7&pid=mimiho&theme=d3



Darkblade48 said:


> Doesn't this machine make water more basic? From the product description, that is what it claims to do.
> 
> How would you set the machine to a pH of 2? In addition, how is this machine achieving that? If it is using chemicals, etc, then it would not be good for your fish.


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## bigfishy (Jun 19, 2009)

tobalman said:


> Since this is a small machine so when set at 2 pH I could mix with my tap water to fill my 40gal tank faster. And I could get a pH around 6 easily. LOL


That machine looks huge to me


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## matti2uude (Jan 10, 2009)

Wouldn't it be cheaper to buy an RO system?


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## tobalman (Mar 31, 2006)

matti2uude said:


> Wouldn't it be cheaper to buy an RO system?


 but RO cannot increase pH and RO will filter and the good mineral as well.This machine do both increase or decease pH filter the bad chemical and leave the mineral alone. beside this machine is portable no need to cut into the water pipe etc.


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## matti2uude (Jan 10, 2009)

Crushed coral will raise your Ph to 8 which is also much cheaper. Why would you want to raise the Ph for blackwater fish??? You can get adapters for your faucet so you wouldn't have to tap into a water pipe for an RO unit. You can mix the RO water with tap water to replace the minerals or add buffers to put the minerals you want back into the water. Also you can use RO water for drinking.


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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

Ionization is bad for your fish. The way I understand it, it's basically dead water that can not carry oxygen. Your fish will suffocate. I could be wrong though ... just thinking out loud ... here.

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## tobalman (Mar 31, 2006)

matti2uude said:


> Crushed coral will raise your Ph to 8 which is also much cheaper. Why would you want to raise the Ph for blackwater fish??? You can get adapters for your faucet so you wouldn't have to tap into a water pipe for an RO unit. You can mix the RO water with tap water to replace the minerals or add buffers to put the minerals you want back into the water. Also you can use RO water for drinking.


Low the pH for black water fish,

High pH for African cichlid or shrimps.


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## matti2uude (Jan 10, 2009)

tobalman said:


> Low the pH for black water fish,
> 
> High pH for African cichlid or shrimps.


For low Ph mix RO with tap water
For high Ph use crushed coral
Both cheaper and better solutions in my opinion.


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## tobalman (Mar 31, 2006)

Yes this is another way to do it but RO could go to 6.5 pH only and the lower the pH the less water change since there wont be much amonia in the lower pH and black water fish could live in the pH as low as 4 pH correct me if I'm wrong.



matti2uude said:


> For low Ph mix RO with tap water
> For high Ph use crushed coral
> Both cheaper and better solutions in my opinion.


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## tobalman (Mar 31, 2006)

I'm not sure neither. But you maybe right.



Zebrapl3co said:


> Ionization is bad for your fish. The way I understand it, it's basically dead water that can not carry oxygen. Your fish will suffocate. I could be wrong though ... just thinking out loud ... here.


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## Lee_D (Jun 11, 2010)

This machine is a scam. The article isn't even worth reading. When you apply a voltage to water you get O2 at one electrode and H2 at the other. The water remains the same. Anyway, where are you going to get water pH2? That's gotta be more acidic than Vinegar. pH 4 or lower will sterilize water.

Lee


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

RO on its own won't change your pH to anything - high or low. It removes the buffers so that you CAN change your pH.

For $4k, cheaper to get an RO system and some pH altering chemicals.

Curious though, what fish are you trying to keep?


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## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

"Micro clustering is another great quality of Kangen Water™"

Man...that goes against the laws of physics and physical chemistry once it leaves the machine...pseudoscience at it's best!!!


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

I don't get this either:



> The pH of the alkaline and acidic water will always add up to 14. Therefore, if ideal drinking water of pH 8.5~9.5 is selected, medium acidic water of pH 4.5-5.5 (used mainly for skin care) will be produced. If strong acidic water of pH 2.5 (a strong disinfectant with many important uses) is selected, the strong Kangen water of pH 11.5 (a powerful solvent used mainly for cleaning) will also be produced.


Can anyone explain this?


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## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

Alkalized water better for you? Your stomach is an acidic environment, it'll neutralize it. Pancreatic secretions is alkaline and will "alkalize" acidic, digested contents that passes through the stomach onto the small intestine. Water absorption occurs in the large intestine.

Soda/pop is acidic from the phosphoric acid as a preservative, RO water is treated with CO2 to acidify but not enough to "carbonate" to give some antimicrobial properties/preservative...I can go on but save your $$$ and not buy it


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

Oh, I love how this website uses pseudoscience and science terms to confuse those that don't understand how electrolysis works.

The very first sentence on the website is already wrong. Electrolysis makes acidic and basic water? Wow! We scientists must be smarter than we actually are, and we must already know the secret to curing cancer and flying cars.


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## tobalman (Mar 31, 2006)

Yes, I think so too, but there is a cheaper version which someone may have and I just wondering if anyone have use it so can let us know their experience with it. I cannot jump to any conclusion yet into I can proof that it does or doesn't working.LOL



Lee_D said:


> This machine is a scam. The article isn't even worth reading. When you apply a voltage to water you get O2 at one electrode and H2 at the other. The water remains the same. Anyway, where are you going to get water pH2? That's gotta be more acidic than Vinegar. pH 4 or lower will sterilize water.
> 
> Lee





Chris S said:


> RO on its own won't change your pH to anything - high or low. It removes the buffers so that you CAN change your pH.
> 
> For $4k, cheaper to get an RO system and some pH altering chemicals.
> 
> Curious though, what fish are you trying to keep?


I haven't think of any particular fish that I will keep yet, my wife doesn't want me to spend too much time with fish so I'm tring to find easy/cheap way to keep my fish hobby. I'm still doing my research and found this machine while google.


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## Aquatic Designs (Apr 2, 2006)

"my wife doesn't want me to spend too much time with fish"


You have that problem too?Let us know how it works. If it solves that problem i might get one too.


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

I think there are more possibilities that the machine can solve marital disputes than help in any manner with fish keeping...or making water better for human consumption for that matter!


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## gucci17 (Oct 11, 2007)

Whatever happened to the guy who had a machine to cure cancer? I wonder if this is his invention as well?


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## tobalman (Mar 31, 2006)

LOL, why don't you try it and let me know if it works. if I spend that much money to buy the machine our married life will end there.



Aquatic Designs said:


> "my wife doesn't want me to spend too much time with fish"
> 
> You have that problem too?Let us know how it works. If it solves that problem i might get one too.


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## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

gucci17 said:


> Whatever happened to the guy who had a machine to cure cancer? I wonder if this is his invention as well?


Sold out/"shushed" by the mega drug corporations...or swimming w/cement flippers


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## Aquatic Designs (Apr 2, 2006)

The cure for cancer is called Binmou imperata The spelling is wrong. It's a plant from Tibet. It has been hushed for close to 100 years.


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

Aquatic Designs said:


> The cure for cancer is called Binmou imperata The spelling is wrong. It's a plant from Tibet. It has been hushed for close to 100 years.


I no longer know who is joking, and who is trying to spread false rumours now


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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

Lol I am confused too, you guys are bad.

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## Aquatic Designs (Apr 2, 2006)

LOL Sorry. I hadn't finished my coffee this morning when i wrote that. I should have put "So I have heard" at the end. *Hears sounds of the twilight zone* And looks around.


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