# Dying Fish Looking for Help



## Lisasaquariums (Aug 16, 2013)

Tanks Specs:
23 Gallon Chocolate Gourami Tank, Planted
Ammonia: 0
Nitrites: 0
Nitrates: 0
PH: 7.4 - 7.6
Temp: 26/78
Filtration: 1 Eheim Classic Canister 1 Aqua Clear 20
Water Changes: 1/4 tank 2 times a week
Items Added: Sera Fertilizer, Almond Leaves, Peat

Issue:
Fish having trouble breathing, slightly bloated, scales moving away from body (much like dropsy, perhaps even dropsy yet less severe).

This is the first case in this set up, although I struggled with something similar in a past tank. Usually lasts 3 days or so until the fish passes, eventually affected all fish. Tried treating with anti bacterial, anti fungal and parasite meds. None worked. I cannot identify the illness.

Method of medication so far in this case: Melafix, not sure what to do next. If illness spreads a 2.5 gallon hospital tank will be set up immediately.

Thanks for any help, much appreciated,
L


----------



## Ischemia (Dec 19, 2012)

Don't wait for it to spread and set up hospital tank ASAP. If you can get set picture of the affected fish may help you get faster responses


----------



## Lisasaquariums (Aug 16, 2013)

This is the affected fish. Looks normal in all ways except the swelling.


----------



## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

One thing that might help a little is adding an air stone since they are having trouble breathing, this will add more oxygen to the tank. Not a cure, but might help


----------



## Lisasaquariums (Aug 16, 2013)

Thanks guys, I lost her but inspecting the body there were no red marking or sign of bacterial infection (which I was getting the last time my other fish were ill). I think perhaps it was stress. One last question, in anyones experience if the scales lift slightly from the lower body but the fish does not become a pinecone, would that be considered dropsy at an early stage or is that something else (bloating?)? I've been looking it up and all information is only about severe cases. Since dropsy occurs as a side effect of a bazillion other illnesses I can't decide if the fish was overly stressed or something is wrong with the tank. Or its a chocolate gourami and sometimes they can be sensitive and it depends on the individual fish. Or rule it out as sometimes fish just die


----------



## TorontoPlantMan (Aug 16, 2013)

Lisasaquariums said:


> Thanks guys, I lost her but inspecting the body there were no red marking or sign of bacterial infection (which I was getting the last time my other fish were ill). I think perhaps it was stress. One last question, in anyones experience if the scales lift slightly from the lower body but the fish does not become a pinecone, would that be considered dropsy at an early stage or is that something else (bloating?)? I've been looking it up and all information is only about severe cases. Since dropsy occurs as a side effect of a bazillion other illnesses I can't decide if the fish was overly stressed or something is wrong with the tank. Or its a chocolate gourami and sometimes they can be sensitive and it depends on the individual fish. Or rule it out as sometimes fish just die


When I lived downtown I had 4 cardinal tetra's randomly die on me one weekend that I went away, All of them had the exact same symptoms as you, they were bloated and I could see the scales lifting from the body. The only thing which I was able to attribute to their death was my roommate doing top ups on the tank without using any prime, other than that I couldn't think of anything as all the water parameters we're fine.

Are your other chocolate's still doing okay? or are they also being affected?


----------



## Tino (Sep 10, 2012)

How often do you do water-changes?
I would recommend one, even though your parameters look perfect.
I second the hostpital/quarantine tank move to make sure whatever it is doesn't spread.
Have the fish been getting a new type of food? New tank decoration etc?
Could it be harassment from other tank mates?


----------



## Lisasaquariums (Aug 16, 2013)

TorontoPlantMan said:


> When I lived downtown I had 4 cardinal tetra's randomly die on me one weekend that I went away, All of them had the exact same symptoms as you, they were bloated and I could see the scales lifting from the body. The only thing which I was able to attribute to their death was my roommate doing top ups on the tank without using any prime, other than that I couldn't think of anything as all the water parameters we're fine.
> 
> Are your other chocolate's still doing okay? or are they also being affected?


I have been treating with peat which has caused the tank ph to fluctuate slightly but none of the others have shown any sign of stress. I'm just going to have to monitor the tank daily and make sure theres no sign of weirdness or stress. All of the others look healthy, happy, are out in the open and eating. so weird.


----------



## Lisasaquariums (Aug 16, 2013)

Tino said:


> How often do you do water-changes?
> I would recommend one, even though your parameters look perfect.
> I second the hostpital/quarantine tank move to make sure whatever it is doesn't spread.
> Have the fish been getting a new type of food? New tank decoration etc?
> Could it be harassment from other tank mates?


I do water changes 1/4 of the tank twice a week. I did a small water change when I noticed the sick fish because I had dosed with melafix... Which I then learnt is actually not good for gouramis because it can mess up their labyrinth organ. I assume its the oils in it. All the others are fine though, I've been using that to treat gouramis for the last 2 years and haven't had an issue. but now I wont be using it for them.


----------



## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

Dropsy is normally diagnosed when the fish has raised scales over the whole body. If only the abdomen is affected, I would think it is bloating, not dropsy. You often see popped eyes with dropsy too, near the end stages, if you have not already euthanized the fish before it gets that far.

Edit. I meant to mention, dropsy is most often associated with less than stellar water parameters, often over a period of time. It is thought to be caused by opportunistic organisms that usually don't cause problems, but will take the 'opportunity' to attack fish that are weak or have some other vulnerability, be it genetic or something else.

Do you know if these fish are tank raised or wild caught ? If tank raised, they are usually more adaptable to water parameters outside the norm for the species, but if they are wild caught, the problem may be the pH. They come from highly acidic peat swamps, with very clear, but very dark waters full of humic acids, where pH can fall as low as 3 or 4.

You may find adding more leaf litter to the tank bottom helpful. Almost any hardwood leaf, well dried, picked after it has changed colours in fall, or the Indian Almond Leaf, which would likely be something they'd find in their native waters, just add more of them. 

These fish have a rep' for being somewhat fragile, prone to bacterial infections and skin parasites. They do not like much water current either, like Bettas and other dwarf gourami species. You might try a baffle on the AC filter to split the water flow and reduce its impact. Easy to make one from a water bottle, I can tell you how if you wish.

They are omnivores, but feed primarily on insects. So if you can offer them some live foods that fit this diet better, especially something like a flightless fruit fly, they may be much better off with that type of diet over a completely man made diet.

Edit. I'm rather fond of all the dwarf gouramis, but I have given up trying to keep them. Even the more common ones are often rather frail and males especially seem prone to dying, for no apparent reason & with little warning. This may be due to problems with the way they are breeding them on the farms, or it may be infectious issues on the farms. I've read that tests done on stock coming from a number of the big farms showed alarmingly high percentages of the fish infected with fish TB, among other things. 

But the chocolate gourami really is said to be one of the most difficult fish to keep. You picked a real challenge for yourself.


----------



## mistersprinkles (Nov 4, 2013)

Chocolate gouramis are one of the hardest FW species to keep. AFAIK they needed very soft water with a neutral to acidic pH to do well, but could still survive in straight tap water. 

If this doesn't work out for you, you might want to check out some of the other dwarf species like colisa chuna, lalia, labiosa, etc.


----------

