# Step me through this please.



## PhonicsBus

Tank is an Eclipse 6 - so 6 gallons. It's in my bedroom on my dresser. No, I cannot upgrade to a larger tank due to space limitations, yes I'm aware of the drawbacks to a small tank.

Light is a 12" 8watt T5, came with the tank.

Small gravel for "substrate".

Just set up, so in the beginnings of the cycling process.
Yesterday, ammonia reading was >3.0ppm, today is between 1.0 and 2.0 ppm.

pH is around 7.5.

I would like to have a nice looking tank with a few plants. But I'm not very familiar with aquarium plants, and haven't had much luck when I've had them before.

I have a small bottle of each Flourish, Flourish Iron and Flourish Excel (that's the carbon one I think ?).

So - here is what the set up looks like :

#1 is the intake. #2 is the output.


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## AquariAM

That light will only really do you for low light plants. With that little light you really won't have much use for any plant food. You can still use little tiny doses but don't overdo it.

The Cardinal plant might not make it. Your windelov will be fine. The java moss won't die but it won't fluorish either.

You don't need to cycle you can just clone your tank off someone who lives nearby- just grab some cycled filter media and throw it in your tank and you're cycled.

If you do really want a nice plant tank you can set yourself up for that for less than $100 from where you are right now. The cheapest way to augment your lighting is to buy the super cheap incandescant hoods that will take two screw in bulbs, and buy the highest wattage CF







bulbs that will fit, ideally 6500K or 6700K color temperature (they say on the box or bulb). With two 15W CF bulbs and that T5 you'll have enough light for a really fluorishing tank.

Next add a cheap Co2 system, like







and follow the instructions. Remember to monitor your pH and kH frequently when using Co2. Pumping Co2 in as gas works WAY better than Excel.

Other great beginner plants to check out are crypt wendii and all the many kinds of Anubias.

Also-- if you want your java moss to grow in a 'thatched' pattern like this









take it apart into individual strands and tie to a flat rock or log in long parallel strands, tied down tight with fishing line every couple of inches. no more than one strand thick. In about a month you'll have a nice thatched pattern.

Have you picked fish yet? May I suggest 10 gold whitecloud minnows, 10 Amano shrimp and a honey gourami?


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## PhonicsBus

AquariAM said:


> Have you picked fish yet? May I suggest 10 gold whitecloud minnows, 10 Amano shrimp and a honey gourami?


Sounds like overstocking for a 6-gallon tank.

Plan so far : 6-or so neon or cardinal tetras, and a couple of ghost shrimp.

The Eclipse system has the lighting and filter pretty much built into the hood - it's not a rectangular tank that can have a hood replaced like you are talking about.

Are there higher intensity bulbs that will fit into the existing structure ?


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## AquariAM

PhonicsBus said:


> Sounds like overstocking for a 6-gallon tank.
> 
> Plan so far : 6-or so neon or cardinal tetras, and a couple of ghost shrimp.
> 
> The Eclipse system has the lighting and filter pretty much built into the hood - it's not a rectangular tank that can have a hood replaced like you are talking about.
> 
> Are there higher intensity bulbs that will fit into the existing structure ?


Overstocking? In a planted tank? Not at all. Overstock would be somewhere approaching 30 white clouds. Someone I knew who raised cherry shrimp had about 100 in a 3 1/2 gallon at one point.

There are TONNES of things you could put in there. Sparkling/croaking gouramis, a paradise fish, honey or dwarf gouramis, white clouds, a few kinds of killifish, five or six kinds of shrimp, a dozen kinds of snail, lots of plants. Just because you're small doesn't mean you're limited-- it just means you're limited to small stuff, which is the most interesting stuff.





















































It's not a matter of are there bulbs that'll fit as much as will your ballast fire them up. I doubt it will as that would be a costlier ballast and that isn't in the MFG's best interests.

Don't put cardinals or neons in anything smaller than a 10 gallon- which, even in itself, is pretty whacky. I wouldn't put cardinals in anything under 30" long myself. They can get really big.


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## PhonicsBus

AquariAM said:


> Overstocking? In a planted tank? Hardly.


No need to get snarky. You can tell that I'm new here.

And, as with most "new" people to aquariums, we have the "1-inch of fish per gallon" concept shoved down our throats. With that, 20 of any fish does sound like overstocking.

I know little to nothing about electronics, of whether a ballast would fire up a different light bulb or not. And I cannot replace the hood. So, this leaves me with either putting in plants that can handle the smaller amount of light output by the current lighting situation, or attempting to upgrade it using with hood I have.


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## PhonicsBus

Those photos need labels - not only am I new, but I'm blonde too 

The bottom one is a male betta. We've got two of those in the house already. Don't worry - they aren't together. I'm not THAT new


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## AquariAM

PhonicsBus said:


> No need to get snarky. You can tell that I'm new here.
> 
> And, as with most "new" people to aquariums, we have the "1-inch of fish per gallon" concept shoved down our throats. With that, 20 of any fish does sound like overstocking.
> 
> I know little to nothing about electronics, of whether a ballast would fire up a different light bulb or not. And I cannot replace the hood. So, this leaves me with either putting in plants that can handle the smaller amount of light output by the current lighting situation, or attempting to upgrade it using with hood I have.


Snarky?

Wasn't my intention. I'm trying to help. If you can't replace the hood and your ballast wont fire a higher output bulb, you're stuck with what you have, which means co2 injection isn't going to be useful and any significant amount of ferts won't be useful either. You can stick with the plants you have. They won't get as massive as they would with co2 but they will still grow for you. With some nice branchy wood and some nice rockwork you can get close to what you wanted.

The 1" of fish rule isn't really true, nor is keeping a fish according to its body size as some fish are small but like tonnes of space and some large fish don't like to leave their one square foot territory once they establish it. If you aren't planting heavily, you can easily support 10 white clouds 1 dwarf gourami and some shrimp. White clouds eat extremely little food, about equivalent to the gourami, thought the white clouds are 10" of fish and the gourami is 2-- just to give you an example of the " of fish rule not working. If, on the other hand, you tried to add a 3" apple snail, and fed it the amount of food it actually wants every day, your tank would be hopelessly overstocked and go downhill, as the applesnail consumes 5x the food of all the other animals combined in a day.


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## PhonicsBus

AquariAM said:


> The 1" of fish rule isn't really true, nor is keeping a fish according to its body size as some fish are small but like tonnes of space and some large fish don't like to leave their one square foot territory once they establish it. If you aren't planting heavily, you can easily support 10 white clouds 1 dwarf gourami and some shrimp. White clouds eat extremely little food, about equivalent to the gourami, thought the white clouds are 10" of fish and the gourami is 2-- just to give you an example of the " of fish rule not working. If, on the other hand, you tried to add a 3" apple snail, and fed it the amount of food it actually wants every day, your tank would be hopelessly overstocked and go downhill, as the applesnail consumes 5x the food of all the other animals combined in a day.


That's one of the better answers I've heard.

I hear what you're saying about the food. But what about the waste output?


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## characinfan

PhonicsBus said:


> I hear what you're saying about the food. But what about the waste output?


They are roughly proportional.


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## PhonicsBus

Okay - so next question is : How do I determine if the ballast can fire up a different bulb ? Preferably without wasting my money buying bulb after bulb that doesn't work.


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## bae

No need to upgrade anything. You can easily grow java fern, mosses, anubias and other plants like crypts and possibly vallisneria at that lighting level. You don't need fertilizers. For a small tank, you want slow-growing plants that don't grow large. Otherwise, you have to constantly cut them back and replant and fuss with them, and the tank either looks overgrown or heavily hacked back.

As for fish, let the plants get settled and think about what you might want to have in there. You might consider just having some shrimp, perhaps some showy ones like crystal reds, and maybe some red ramshorn snails. Your original plan of 6 cardinals or neons will work. It depends on what you want to look at.

Low stocking levels are a win for a small tank. Don't push the envelope. There are people who are into high-input nano tanks, but you don't have to be one of them. You can have a very attractive low tech small tank without a lot of hassle. Don't overfeed or overstock, change a couple of gallons of water weekly, and you'll have a beautiful little slice of nature on your dresser top.


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## PhonicsBus

What I was hoping for was a nicely planted tank with some colourful fish - not many.

GOtta go - kids are calling me.


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## AquariAM

PhonicsBus said:


> Okay - so next question is : How do I determine if the ballast can fire up a different bulb ? Preferably without wasting my money buying bulb after bulb that doesn't work.


Email the manufacturer


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## AquariAM

some sort of Killifish










Amano shrimp



















Spiketail (?) paradise fish










Plakatt betta









White cloud minnow


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## qwerty

My advice would be to get your hands on a copy of Diana Walstad's book _Ecology of the Planted Aquarium_.

It's full of information useful to both beginners and those with more experience. There's also a step by step guide on how to set up a planted aquarium like the one she first set up herself.

It's a pretty solid method as long as you read the book and understand what you're doing. It's pretty great for small aquariums with low-light setups that you don't really want to go pouring tons of money into maintaining and fertilizing.

I think if you read the book and just run your plans by some people for their input, it's probably the easiest setup that's most likely to produce positive results for you at the lowest cost.


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## PhonicsBus

Well, before I go and invest in a book (or check it out from the library), I'll just put it out there that there are a few different lightbulbs that will fit.

All are 8 watts.

1) Aqua-Glo, about $15.
2) Power-Glo, about $21.
3) Sun-Glo, about $11.


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## davec

*re java moss*

I bought some java moss and attached it with a rubber band on some driftwood. Am I supposed to tease out each strand and attach them. I just attached a clump of it onto the driftwood.

Thx

Dave C


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## AquariAM

davec said:


> I bought some java moss and attached it with a rubber band on some driftwood. Am I supposed to tease out each strand and attach them. I just attached a clump of it onto the driftwood.
> 
> Thx
> 
> Dave C


Thats fine. The strand thing is just if you want to make it thatch.


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## aln

i dont quite understand what u mean.. do you just take everything apart and then tie it down in strands right beside eachother?



AquariAM said:


> Thats fine. The strand thing is just if you want to make it thatch.


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## ameekplec.

In small tanks going for minimal maintenance, slow growing plants and a few fish and perhaps a few shrimp or snails is definitely the way to go. 

Also, since you're probably not a master of the nanos, I'd keep it simple


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## Darkblade48

PhonicsBus said:


> Well, before I go and invest in a book (or check it out from the library), I'll just put it out there that there are a few different lightbulbs that will fit.
> 
> All are 8 watts.
> 
> 1) Aqua-Glo, about $15.
> 2) Power-Glo, about $21.
> 3) Sun-Glo, about $11.


You can get effective bulbs at the Hardware store for much cheaper.



davec said:


> I bought some java moss and attached it with a rubber band on some driftwood. Am I supposed to tease out each strand and attach them. I just attached a clump of it onto the driftwood.


This is fine. However, I would use black cotton thread rather than a rubber band. Both will degrade over time, but the cotton thread will take less time to degrade. In addition, it looks less obvious than a rubber band.

As for attaching it, just try to spread out as much as you can and then tie it down. You do not need to tease out each individual strand. As mentioned previously, if you tease out each individual strand and lay them perpendicular to each other, you will get a thatched pattern.

This picture was posted on the first page:


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## ameekplec.

Darkblade48 said:


> You can get effective bulbs at the Hardware store for much cheaper.


You'll be heard pressed to find a 12" T5 bulb in a colour other than 3000K. Besides, NO T5's are pretty cheap to begin with.


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## AquariAM

ameekplec. said:


> You'll be heard pressed to find a 12" T5 bulb in a colour other than 3000K. Besides, NO T5's are pretty cheap to begin with.


Again- not trying to assume you don't know or anything OP but color temperature (3000K 4500K 6500K etc) refers to the visible color output of the bulb. 6500-6700K is generally what the eye considers to be 'white' light. up to about 3000K is reddish, 3000 to about 5000 is yellow, 5000 to about 7000 is white, 7000> is bluish (if I recall correctly)


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## ameekplec.

3000 is yellow. Most incandescent lights are in and around there.


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## PhonicsBus

I'm actually fairly well versed on the visibility of colours. 
I just don't know how they relate to the growth of plants.

DOES the K rating of the light actually have an effect on the growth ?
Or is it simply restricted by the wattage ?

Is it worth getting a different bulb (I don't know the K rating of the bulb in the system now, just that it is 8watts. It's not daylight, it's somewhat warmer than that, but not sure by how much).


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## bae

Don't worry about the color temperature -- it's mostly a matter of what looks good to you. Plants have accessory pigments so they can use most wavelengths of visible light, not just the ones absorbed by chlorophyll. While many people here seem to like the color of 'daylight' bulbs (~6500K), I prefer the warmer color of cool whites (IIRC ~3200K), which make the plants look greener. Diana Walstad's book has the results of an experiment she did showing that cool white promoted plant growth better than most specialty bulbs.

With planted tanks, as with so many other things, you can get 90% of the results with 10% of the effort. If you've gotta have that last 10%, it's gonna take the other 90% of the effort. I recommend you keep it simple.


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## Zebrapl3co

Wow, fast moving thread.
Anyway, just to add my experience with small tanks. You don't need to replace anything. Set it up as a low-medium light planted tank and go with that kind of setup.

Your normal wattage per area don't apply. Why? because of the proximity of you light source to your plant is a very sort distance. Light exposure is 2X stronger. And that being a T5 makes is all the more brighter. So a 8 watts T5 can be more like a 16 watts over a 6 gallon putting it in the medium light range. I'd be more confortable with 6500 K light. I have two 5G tank with a 9 watts CFL. They are both 6500K then I purchase them, one of the light bulb eventually blew and I replace it with a 2700K bulb. I can tell you that the 6500K is better by a slight margin and it looks much better as well.

This will give you good access into many of the aquarium plants. So look into Crypt parva, Cuba (Hemianthus callitrichoides), Anubia nana petite, rica, moss of various types, micro swords plants and possibly even hair grass.

CO2 for these small tanks is a waste of space and since space is an issue, then that is off the list. However, there have been many many fine nano tanks; including the ones that compete and won in the ADA contest, that use Excel inplace of CO2 for nano tanks. However, you need to keep in mind that Excel overdose is bad for shrimps.

My suguestion is to start with the low light plants and work your way up when you have more experience.

You don't need to cycle your tank if you are setting it up as a planted tank without any fish to start with.

Just one last advice, don't over stock with fish. For a planted tank, it's plants first, then find the right kind of minature fish to match the tank.

Good luck.

*Never pay again for live sex! | Hot girls doing naughty stuff for free! | Chat for free!*


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## PhonicsBus

I just actually tied the moss to the driftwood, so the water is kind of hazy at the moment. There was some really light, filmy algae on it. 

I'll take some photos after the water clears up a bit.


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## AquariAM

Zebrapl3co said:


> Wow, fast moving thread.
> Anyway, just to add my experience with small tanks. You don't need to replace anything. Set it up as a low-medium light planted tank and go with that kind of setup.
> 
> Your normal wattage per area don't apply. Why? because of the proximity of you light source to your plant is a very sort distance. Light exposure is 2X stronger. And that being a T5 makes is all the more brighter. So a 8 watts T5 can be more like a 16 watts over a 6 gallon putting it in the medium light range. I'd be more confortable with 6500 K light. I have two 5G tank with a 9 watts CFL. They are both 6500K then I purchase them, one of the light bulb eventually blew and I replace it with a 2700K bulb. I can tell you that the 6500K is better by a slight margin and it looks much better as well.
> 
> This will give you good access into many of the aquarium plants. So look into Crypt parva, Cuba (Hemianthus callitrichoides), Anubia nana petite, rica, moss of various types, micro swords plants and possibly even hair grass.
> 
> CO2 for these small tanks is a waste of space and since space is an issue, then that is off the list. However, there have been many many fine nano tanks; including the ones that compete and won in the ADA contest, that use Excel inplace of CO2 for nano tanks. However, you need to keep in mind that Excel overdose is bad for shrimps.
> 
> My suguestion is to start with the low light plants and work your way up when you have more experience.
> 
> You don't need to cycle your tank if you are setting it up as a planted tank without any fish to start with.
> 
> Just one last advice, don't over stock with fish. For a planted tank, it's plants first, then find the right kind of minature fish to match the tank.
> 
> Good luck.


It isn't really a planted tank per say, it's very low light and there's no co2 injection. Its more of a standard tank with plants.


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## Mr Fishies

AquariAM said:


> It isn't really a planted tank per say, it's very low light and there's no co2 injection. Its more of a standard tank with plants.


That's some odd logic IMO.  A planted tank is a tank with plants, I've never seen any criteria that says a certain amount % of tank has to be green, a certain amount of light or CO2 is needed for it to be a "planted tank". Some of the nicest planted tanks I've seen (ie: AGA contest ribbon holders) are a cluster of driftwood in the middle with a few ferns and mosses attached, others are mostly shadows and moss.

There is no recipe to be followed with a hard fast ingredient list. If the OP buys plants and puts them in the tank with the intention of growing them, it's planted tank.

If a fish tank only has a 1 small fish, does that mean it's a tank with fish not a fish tank?


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## PhonicsBus

Tank with plants.
Planted tank.

Actually - tank with plants makes more sense, because I didn't go out to the garden and plant my tank hoping for an "aquarium tree".

Anyhow - I just put some photos up in the photo forum. Take a peek.


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## NuclearTech

PhonicsBus said:


> Actually - tank with plants makes more sense, because I didn't go out to the garden and plant my tank hoping for an "aquarium tree".


Haha  ...aquarium tree...thank you for the chuckle.


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## Mr Fishies

PhonicsBus said:


> Actually - tank with plants makes more sense, <SNIP>


Who's going to tell the people who run it that the site should be "www.TheTankWithPlants.net" not PlantedTank.net. 



NuclearTech said:


> Haha  ...aquarium tree...thank you for the chuckle.


Yeah, hadn't really read it that way before...

"I planted a 50G last fall, I'm expecting a big crop of nanos come springtime."


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## AquariAM

PhonicsBus said:


> Tank with plants.
> Planted tank.
> 
> Actually - tank with plants makes more sense, because I didn't go out to the garden and plant my tank hoping for an "aquarium tree".
> 
> Anyhow - I just put some photos up in the photo forum. Take a peek.


 Tank with fluorite or other planting substrate, co2 injection, high output lighting, regular dosing of ferts, priority in stocking and environment given to plants = planted tank.

Tank where lighting was not pre-considered, non plant substrate is used, stocking priority and environment is given to fish, but happens to have a few plants = tank with plants.


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## PhonicsBus

AquariAM said:


> It isn't really a planted tank per say, it's very low light and there's no co2 injection. Its more of a standard tank with plants.





Mr Fishies said:


> That's some odd logic IMO.  A planted tank is a tank with plants, I've never seen any criteria that says a certain amount % of tank has to be green, a certain amount of light or CO2 is needed for it to be a "planted tank".


Semantics.

If you two want to argue it out, please don't do it on this thread.


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## AquariAM

PhonicsBus said:


> Semantics.
> 
> If you want to argue it out, please don't do it on this thread.


It isn't semantics. If you tell someone you have a planted tank they typically assume the former of the two tank types. 
What you have isn't a planted tank (saw pictures) I'm not insulting you by any means, I'm just saying that there is a difference between a proper planted tank and a tank with low light no co2 normal gravel and maybe 15% total cover of plants.

I'm not being even remotely rude or snarky. Please stop seeing rudeness where none is.
Happy fish keeping.


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## PhonicsBus

NuclearTech said:


> Haha  ...aquarium tree...thank you for the chuckle.


Glad someone got a chuckle out of that.

And whomever is growing those nanos. . . let 'em grow - there's more money in hawking the bigger tanks.


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## PhonicsBus

Oh, and I edited my original post to reflect a more proper terminology for what I'm attempting to create. I hope it is more clear now.


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## AquariAM

I shouldn't have been so broad and generalized the way I did about what planted people consider planted vs tank with plants. It's really more of an anal-retentive definition.



Cheers and happy fishkeeping


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