# Hmm. Red hump Geo not eating.



## Tropicana (Feb 15, 2009)

Hey guys, So my first Red hump geo was a female and of course Big als give you the drowsy ones first so the rest of there stock looks good. lol I am jk >.>. 

Anyways i have had this female for about 3 months and the only food that ever peaked her interests was Frozen bloodworms and Earthworms cut up. And even then with that food she barely even ate any. She seems to have trouble swallowing the food. lol i know right. And that is even if the food is like micro. 

Does anyone have suggestions on some rich foods i can give this geo to help beef her up and become as strong as my other female that seems to eat like cory cats on an algae wafer.

I have treated her for parasites and nothing seems to be wrong there. I have noticed her gills are a little pinkish. But i can only guess her malnutrition has added to that.


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## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

Have you tried soaking the food in water with garlic juice? Seachem entice? NLS finicky fish formula? I find even when fish are full they can't resist it.


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## Tropicana (Feb 15, 2009)

Hmm next time i go to big als i will have to look for that stuff. Since i have credit there i may as well use it up lol.

Thanks AM


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## dl88dl (Mar 8, 2010)

My Geo red humps will eat anything I throw in the tank so if that one don't eat then I think there has to be some kind internal parasites/bacterial infection.
Btw, when you buy a fish at BA or any other lfs...you should always pick the one you want and usually the one that they have trouble catching will usually be the healthiest one


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## Tropicana (Feb 15, 2009)

Oh i am well aware that they eat anything. My other two are in amazing health and look perfect. I have treated her for parasites already, and she has been with the other two for almost 3months. They would have picked something up in that matter of time and become ill also. 

I guess its my bad for letting the special people at big als choose my fish without me making the pick, But still she should have perked up by now and gained some weight.


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## dl88dl (Mar 8, 2010)

Tropicana said:


> Oh i am well aware that they eat anything. My other two are in amazing health and look perfect. I have treated her for parasites already, and she has been with the other two for almost 3months. They would have picked something up in that matter of time and become ill also.
> 
> I guess its my bad for letting the special people at big als choose my fish without me making the pick, But still she should have perked up by now and gained some weight.


That Geo must think that she is a Discus or something...LOL
In every tank there are good bugs and bad bugs but as long as the fishy are healthy and keep in a healthy condition then they will resist to those bad bugs but once they are stressed then there is a good chance they will catch these bad bugs.


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

You can also pre-soak the food she will eat in Kent Zoe Marine, which will help add some amino acids and vitamins she might otherwise not be getting.


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## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

Tropicana said:


> Hmm next time i go to big als i will have to look for that stuff. Since i have credit there i may as well use it up lol.
> 
> Thanks AM


I would try the NLS finicky fish formula soaked in entice or garlique (both seachem products, both over priced) and I'd use Chris's suggestion of using a fatty acid supplement if the fish is really underweight- but follow directions you don't want a fatty liver and more complications.

The finicky fish formula is better than normal NLS cichlid formula anyways, as it doesn't use 'meal'. NLS cichlid is krill and herring meal, finicky fish is mussel, krill herring, amino acid. Kind of like NLS cichlid was several years ago before they cheaped it out.

I switched some angels over to it not because they were underfeeding but because I noticed much better ingredients and after 3 days they are looking much more shiny so there has been a difference for sure.


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## Tropicana (Feb 15, 2009)

Thanks for the info guys, i am going to put this stuff to the test.


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## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

I've found occasionally, for no other apparent reason than that the fish is a douchebag, some fish, particularly anabantoids and SA cichlids, as well as some tangs, will decide they only want squishy fatty sweet foods or easy to chew foods or foods of a certain color or texture, even when all the other fish in the tank are ravenous eaters. I had an angel for a year that would ONLY eat Omega One shrimp pellets, which luckily have good ingredients, but absolutely would not eat anything else. Had to be presoftened.


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## Tropicana (Feb 15, 2009)

Lol yeah, thats pretty funny. damn picky fish..


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## Tropicana (Feb 15, 2009)

Well update. Tried the Entice with every food i have and this Flake that has garlic in it to help and she seems to chew on it for a moment and then spit it out. So she has chosen death by starvation. I will continue trying but this fish is probably done for.


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## dl88dl (Mar 8, 2010)

Looks more and more like some kind of internal virus/parasites/bacterial infection.
Got any pics?


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## blackninja (Dec 3, 2009)

Tropicana said:


> Well update. Tried the Entice with every food i have and this Flake that has garlic in it to help and she seems to chew on it for a moment and then spit it out. So she has chosen death by starvation. I will continue trying but this fish is probably done for.


When a fish refuses to eat what they are normally fed (their regular diet) it is too late to introduce new food because they are too weakened or very reluctant to go for something new in their condition. Try grinding those bloodworms and with a syringe or small turkey baser force feed the fish. You can try to get some of the gel food found at BA's which are in liquid form and force feed that to it.


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## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

Your only recourse at this point is to offer the fish it's natural diet or something similarly enticing and easy to chew and swallow.

I had lead pipe, unbeknownst to me, for YEARS leading into my house. I couldn't figure out why all SA/CA fish would go off food after a few months (but never africans cichlids, any loach, or any catfish). I had angels go off food several times and the only way to get them back to health was live baby guppies. No angel can resist live baby guppies. If it's silvery and it moves and its squishy it'll eat it. In your shoes I'd collect several small (2"ish max) earthworms and failing that try to find extremely small live shrimp like ghost shrimp at sub 1/2" size. Failing either of those (warning- extremely frowned upon by most people practice coming up) I would get my hands on several small guppies, chop them into 2-3mm cubes with an exacto knife, and throw them on the bottom of the tank. Never met anything that could resist that- if it actually hit it. For me the angels were so far gone they wouldn't even strike at food any more. If your geo still is you might be able to get away with chopped livebearers and chopped earthworms. Wash the worms though. If you're going to do the livebearer thing use an extremely sharp razor, make a very fast decisive cut to remove the head just behind the gills. This will kill the fisn instantly. You don't want to cause suffering. Deflector shields are up and at full power  I value the life of an eartheater over a guppy. I'm sorry to those of you who have guppies. Trying to save a fish here... While killing others... I know.. And I ate chicken today. What are ya gonna do.. Anyways..

In my case it was a toxin in the form of lead (pipe replaced last summer btw, all is well now) that made my fish not feed. In yours, who knows? I've seen your fish they look very healthy and if you have not added anything for a very long time I'd put my money on toxin or just plain old age before anything else. If the fish does die, and you aren't squeemish, Very carefully cut it open, and post pictures of the fish's internal organs, particularly the liver (It's one of the most identifiable organs in there). Get good macro shots.

Honestly in your shoes right now I'd move to chopped baby guppy followed by live earthworm. I can't see it not taking live earthworm...


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## blackninja (Dec 3, 2009)

AquariAM said:


> Your only recourse at this point is to offer the fish it's natural diet or something similarly enticing and easy to chew and swallow.
> 
> I had lead pipe, unbeknownst to me, for YEARS leading into my house. I couldn't figure out why all SA/CA fish would go off food after a few months (but never africans cichlids, any loach, or any catfish). I had angels go off food several times and the only way to get them back to health was live baby guppies. No angel can resist live baby guppies. If it's silvery and it moves and its squishy it'll eat it. In your shoes I'd collect several small (2"ish max) earthworms and failing that try to find extremely small live shrimp like ghost shrimp at sub 1/2" size. Failing either of those (warning- extremely frowned upon by most people practice coming up) I would get my hands on several small guppies, chop them into 2-3mm cubes with an exacto knife, and throw them on the bottom of the tank. Never met anything that could resist that- if it actually hit it. For me the angels were so far gone they wouldn't even strike at food any more. If your geo still is you might be able to get away with chopped livebearers and chopped earthworms. Wash the worms though. If you're going to do the livebearer thing use an extremely sharp razor, make a very fast decisive cut to remove the head just behind the gills. This will kill the fisn instantly. You don't want to cause suffering. Deflector shields are up and at full power  I value the life of an eartheater over a guppy. I'm sorry to those of you who have guppies. Trying to save a fish here... While killing others... I know.. And I ate chicken today. What are ya gonna do.. Anyways..
> 
> ...


Very interesting suggestions put forward AquariAM you have at least made everyone aware of lead poisoning and cirrhosis of the liver which are more human problems than fish. Lead poisoning in fish effects mainly small fish with a 28% mortality rate if under 25g and bettas fall in that category. The whole idea of feeding fish feeder fish is the fish go for the smaller fish because they are alive. If you do a Yang Can Cook on the guppies they are very dead and not as fresh or palatable to the fish looking for some fresh kill. You will notice when fish eat live fish they generally pick the eyes first and then the head and ignore the rest unless they are really hungry. So discarding the head of those guppies and chopping the rest of them with an exactor razor actually defeats the purpose. But mutilation and fish voyeurism are beyond most hobbyist obsessions and good macro shots of fish liver is off limits unless there is equal curiosity where all the chicken you ate ended. If you corrode the lining of those lead pipes you will be exposed to lead poisoning so the city says. But KFC might offer a better explanation. LoL.


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## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

* discarding the head of those guppies and chopping the rest of them with an exactor razor actually defeats the purpose. But mutilation and fish voyeurism *

No you want the head. That is indeed the first part they go for. You chop the head off to kill it.

Is it really mutilation? I don't know. Someone had to cut the head off of, pluck, debone, and cook the chicken I ate today. Is that mutilation? What about the fish and shrimp in your fish food?

We're trying to get a fish to eat.

We've established it'll pick food up and chew it but not swallow. It'll swallow delicious freshly killed guppy. (Kill, chop, feed). It's not going to be fast enough to catch a live guppy on it's best day, let alone when it's sick.

If the earthworm thing doesn't work, the chopped guppy is a close second to get the fish eating. I'd do it anyways just because pure earthworm is not a good diet.

And yes, I've been responsible for the deaths of hundreds of livebearers. A fellow forum member used to give me bags of about 80 week old guppies every couple of weeks when I had my last angel pair. I bred mollies for awhile for the same reason. I have myself used the chopped guppy method on a cichlid that wouldn't eat successfully. Is it screwed up? Yes. The question is, do you feel sufficiently emotionally attatched to fish X to justify feeding fish Y to it to nurse it back to health, while keeping in mind there's a whole lot of fish Z that someone ELSE killed in your fish food .


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## Tropicana (Feb 15, 2009)

Thanks for the input guys, The earthworm was already tried so its out. now the guppy thing i can do. I have freshly born guppies so they will work. The fish's Stomach is rather sunken of course. But she is pretty excited for food. Chases it and then grabs it chews and spits. Then gets turned off after a few more attempts. Killing fish doesn't really bother me unless it is wild caught(besides Catching fish on a lake for food.). But i will do what it takes (besides spend more $) for the fish. She still seems to be fighting so we will see.. It just looks like she has no room in her stomach or its permanently Shrunken. And she has no will to swallow. Anyways I may or may not throw up pics. We will see.


If the fish dies i will do an exam. (or try)


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## blackninja (Dec 3, 2009)

AquariAM said:


> * discarding the head of those guppies and chopping the rest of them with an exactor razor actually defeats the purpose. But mutilation and fish voyeurism *
> 
> No you want the head. That is indeed the first part they go for. You chop the head off to kill it.
> 
> ...


You don't think the sight of all those dead fish(chopped guppy) to a fish close to dying would be a turn off. It would be sending the wrong message to the sick fish, this lack of emotional attachment and pending liver autopsy. I would advise the use of medicated gel from BA's with some force feeding since the fish is too weak to even swallow whole food. It will also clear any parasites on its way out. A more serious problem could be the fish has TB and will wither away slowly. Check the poo if they are white then it is parasites.


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## Tropicana (Feb 15, 2009)

After using 3 different kinds of meds already, i will have to pass. She was not strong enough to make it another night it seems. The Fish doesn't have TB, Didn't show any signs. And for poo, well she has not eaten in about 2 months i have not see her poo for some time.

Now that she passed Its all wrapped up. Amazing how a fish can turn into 60$ from 15$ just because the Seller didn't care.


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## dl88dl (Mar 8, 2010)

Sorry for your lost


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## blackninja (Dec 3, 2009)

Tropicana said:


> After using 3 different kinds of meds already, i will have to pass. She was not strong enough to make it another night it seems. The Fish doesn't have TB, Didn't show any signs. And for poo, well she has not eaten in about 2 months i have not see her poo for some time.
> 
> Now that she passed Its all wrapped up. Amazing how a fish can turn into 60$ from 15$ just because the Seller didn't care.


We can all appreciate your efforts and strong compassion for a creature under your care. You took the monetary hit but your actions were priceless and you are a better person for doing it...never mind the Seller.


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## Tropicana (Feb 15, 2009)

Thanks guys.


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

It happens to the best of us buddy!


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## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

Im really sorry the fish died. 
Are you ok?


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## Tropicana (Feb 15, 2009)

Ah i am good man, Just sucks now that my male wont have his duo to spawn with. Well in a little bit i will have to find another mate for him. This time a healthy one which i don't have to medicate for every problem and hope for the best. But I will post pics of all the new life I am greeted with every morning. They are getting so big!.

Will be in my 'Red hump geo holding' thread in the Cichlid section.


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## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

If I were you I'd err on the side of paranoia and feed NLS thera A and jungle medicated assuming your fish will take it for a while- juust incase. 

Did you autopsy the fish? Any internal parasites?


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## blackninja (Dec 3, 2009)

AquariAM said:


> If I were you I'd err on the side of paranoia and feed NLS thera A and jungle medicated assuming your fish will take it for a while- juust incase.
> 
> Did you autopsy the fish? Any internal parasites?


Give him more time, bro. He still has to get over those chopped guppys next before his hands are steady enough to perform an autopsy.


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## Tropicana (Feb 15, 2009)

I did check her out, i found nothing visual at least. I know she starved to death. And the cause would be not eating(durr) and that may have been from either bullying, but i removed her before anything serious. So my best bet is starvation. She had very little meat on her also when purchased so she couldn't even count on reserves to start eating again. 

As for chopped guppy i am fine with that lol. I have no feelings towards them, well my brothers. They are a bit inbred.


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## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

Tropicana said:


> I did check her out, i found nothing visual at least. I know she starved to death. And the cause would be not eating(durr) and that may have been from either bullying, but i removed her before anything serious. So my best bet is starvation. She had very little meat on her also when purchased so she couldn't even count on reserves to start eating again.
> 
> As for chopped guppy i am fine with that lol. I have no feelings towards them, well my brothers. They are a bit inbred.


Ok so this is a fish that you didn't have for a really long time- like less than lets say five months? And it never had a whole lot of fat in the first place?
Do you know the age at purchase? Were they full grown?


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## Tropicana (Feb 15, 2009)

Well i would say she was stunted compared to the other female i have. Kinda large eyes for the head etc. i suspect they were close to full grown. And i only had her for 3 months.

And of course sometimes you see the weaker fish and you know its going to die in like a week and you try to save it kinda thing too right. Ive bought a catfish that had no fins/whiskers because it was with Cichlids and nursed it back to full with hand feeding... So nice seeing them healthy again.. This time though i think i was a little late.


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## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

I really urge you to get Thera A and soak it in a bit of garlic juice. Just incase it was parasites. The garlic won't hurt the fish and long term garlic exposure at high concentrations whacks most internal parasites.
It does sound like it was just a weak fish to begin with but you have really nice fish and it'd be a shame to lose more.


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## blackninja (Dec 3, 2009)

AquariAM said:


> I really urge you to get Thera A and soak it in a bit of garlic juice. Just incase it was parasites. The garlic won't hurt the fish and long term garlic exposure at high concentrations whacks most internal parasites.
> It does sound like it was just a weak fish to begin with but you have really nice fish and it'd be a shame to lose more.


Nobody has explained to me why garlic works. There is no way garlic can enter the food chain in nature so where did this all start....


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## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

blackninja said:


> Nobody has explained to me why garlic works. There is no way garlic can enter the food chain in nature so where did this all start....


dont know but seachem makes two food enhancers (garlique and entice) based on oils from banana and garlic and 'water column' fish go crackers for the garlique while bottomfeeders, especially plecos go crackers for the entice, so there's something in there that sets them off.

There's no way I know of for corn syrup, ice, artificial flavors and FD&C red no. 5 to enter the food chain naturally either but I really like popsicles


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

blackninja said:


> Nobody has explained to me why garlic works. There is no way garlic can enter the food chain in nature so where did this all start....


Garlic contains allicin, which does lots of crazy stuff like kill bacteria, fungus, parasites, etc. etc. while also boosting the immune system.

It isn't really part of a normal fish diet, but its effects have been proven time and again with humans, so naturally someone tried it on fishies. Works great =)


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## Tropicana (Feb 15, 2009)

I would rather not keep spending money on product i don't necessarily need. I have not seen signs of any illness for the last 4 months when I had to treat my one female for Callamanus. And that went perfectly. But anyways Alls good in the fish hood now.


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