# 20 Gallon Long Tanganyikan



## CallMeKenny

Well at first this was supposed to be a saltwater tank, but due to personal reasons that wont be happening! So instead I am thinking about doing a shell-dweller tank. I only have experience with malawi cichlids so this is basically new to me. So far I have the sand and water in the tank with a filter running and a custom light. My heater broke so I will be buying a new one this weekend. The filter was running on my old tank so I should only have a small mini-cycle at the most. I will be getting a bunch of rocks and shells also. Does anyone know a good place to get shells? 

For stocking I am open to ideas as I do not know any of the names really. 

Here is a picture of the tank currently and the custom light (standard 24" fixture from my 55 gallon with a custom metal holder).


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## MDR

Michaels arts and crafts usually had shells last time I was in there (admittedly years ago)
You could do some sort of Multi colony, they are a shelldweller (lamprologus multifasciatus).


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## littleolme

A couple of options for that size tank that I have experience with would be a Multifasciatus colony or a Brevis tank. I currently keep both, 1M/3F brevis in a 20L and a bunch of multies in a 50 with a calvus. The multies will actually colonize the tank, the younger generations living with their parents where the brevis usually only tolerate their young for so long. A couple of things to consider ...

Brevis only need one shell per fish, multies usually claim about 5-7 shells each. Brevis will harem breed like Malawis but they'll also work in a pair. Either will over run the tank with fry in time if you don't have an answer for them. Your aquascaping will be quite different, multies you basically layer shells, brevis you place singular shells with space and line of sight breaks between them to prevent territorial issues.

Finding shells could get expensive if you are looking for a lot of them, they've become more and more difficult to find cheap. One of the dollar store chains used to carry bags of whale eyes which usually had a good number of usuable shells in them but I haven't seen any in a while (check the craft and pet areas).You could check around for escargot shells as well, they work well. I would avoid buying them in pets stores, they tend to run at much higher prices, sometimes upwards of $3-4 each.

I'd recommend you pop in to cichlid-forums.com and check out the species profiles for more info or other types of shell dwellers.

Hope this helps.


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## CallMeKenny

Thanks for the responses, I have been researching and looking through pictures of other tanks. I am not really a fan of a lot of shells in the tank, I prefer the look of a few shells along with rocks stacked to form caves. Are there any stocking options that would go well in a setup like that?


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## boun

If you are still looking for shells, Walmart sell a large assorted bag for $10. I have found this be the best value. They would be located in the home decoration area. If you don't mind going through the bags and do exchanges you can have the selection you want


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## CallMeKenny

boun said:


> If you are still looking for shells, Walmart sell a large assorted bag for $10. I have found this be the best value. They would be located in the home decoration area. If you don't mind going through the bags and do exchanges you can have the selection you want


Thanks for the tip, I will be sure to check walmart!


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## CallMeKenny

Also where do people purchase these fish? The pet stores don't have a very good selection.


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## CallMeKenny

Well I picked up a group of multies from Al-Losaurus and they finally came out of their shells after 5 hours!


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## Al-Losaurus

Took them 5 hours eh lol when i caught them as soon as i put my hand in they darted into the shells making it easy and fast to catch them. The last one went into a shell that had a bunch around it i waited like 20 mins hoping to see a tail but nope... Lol thats why i just ended up pulling all the shells on that side of the tank and giving them to you.

Good to see they made it along with the little ones. Did all the babies make it?
By tomorrow they should start digging for china that was always fun to watch for long periods of time. Another good thing about multies everyday the layout is a bit different.


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## hawkeye

*Neolamprologus multifasciatus*

I got my colony from Finatics and from what I hear Mike should reopen this weekend. As an alternate to shells you can use plumbing elbows capped at one end. These make it easier to catch and relocate these little buggers.

Bob


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## CallMeKenny

Al-Losaurus said:


> Took them 5 hours eh lol when i caught them as soon as i put my hand in they darted into the shells making it easy and fast to catch them. The last one went into a shell that had a bunch around it i waited like 20 mins hoping to see a tail but nope... Lol thats why i just ended up pulling all the shells on that side of the tank and giving them to you.
> 
> Good to see they made it along with the little ones. Did all the babies make it?
> By tomorrow they should start digging for china that was always fun to watch for long periods of time. Another good thing about multies everyday the layout is a bit different.


The babies made it and are swimming around and eating. The digging did start today which is fun to watch especially when I am supposed to be studying.


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## CallMeKenny

hawkeye said:


> I got my colony from Finatics and from what I hear Mike should reopen this weekend. As an alternate to shells you can use plumbing elbows capped at one end. These make it easier to catch and relocate these little buggers.
> 
> Bob


Hey Bob, I used to get my mbuna from Mike but now that he is in Mississauga I doubt I will be there again. It is to far for me to get there


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## CallMeKenny

Just an update! The digging has begun! Still need to get rocks and more shells... after exams.


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## hawkeye

*Rip*

Alas my 20gal is now empty. 3 generations of Multies died when the heater malfunctioned. The water was 95F when I got to the tank after noticing no swimming fish. I hope Mike has some in stock at his new store and maybe a new heater. A little bummed out over all this as I really liked those little guys.

Bob


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## CallMeKenny

hawkeye said:


> Alas my 20gal is now empty. 3 generations of Multies died when the heater malfunctioned. The water was 95F when I got to the tank after noticing no swimming fish. I hope Mike has some in stock at his new store and maybe a new heater. A little bummed out over all this as I really liked those little guys.
> 
> Bob


Sorry to hear that  I always dip my finger in whenever I pass the tank to check the temperature. After reading too many stories about heater malfunctions you can never be too careful. Hopefully you can get started again and build a new colony!


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## CallMeKenny

Saw my first fry today!  Am I supposed to be feeding anything special into the tank other than the regular flakes?


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## hawkeye

*feeding fry*

When I had fry, and now that I have restocked there should be more, I used some fry food, very fine powder like. I suppose you could take regular food and pulverize it, but then you have the problem of getting the food to the fry.

This may be overkill but I took a wooden dowel, taped some airline to it leaving a small tip below the bottom of the dowel. To the top of the airline I attached a syringe. I take the food put it in a glass with tank water and suck it up in the syringe and "inject" it right to where the fry are. . I find this better than scattering the food and having the adults eat it or it falling everywhere the fry aren't.

Anyway my two cents

Bob


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## CallMeKenny

hawkeye said:


> When I had fry, and now that I have restocked there should be more, I used some fry food, very fine powder like. I suppose you could take regular food and pulverize it, but then you have the problem of getting the food to the fry.
> 
> This may be overkill but I took a wooden dowel, taped some airline to it leaving a small tip below the bottom of the dowel. To the top of the airline I attached a syringe. I take the food put it in a glass with tank water and suck it up in the syringe and "inject" it right to where the fry are. . I find this better than scattering the food and having the adults eat it or it falling everywhere the fry aren't.
> 
> Anyway my two cents
> 
> Bob


Hey Bob, I have crushed some food and pinched it between my fingers and then just put my hand in to where the fry were. It seems to have worked as I saw them eating, thanks for the advice!


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## hawkeye

*males or females*

Whatever works, but I now have this contraption sitting in the living room. Makes for some interesting conversations.

Did you ever notice who did the initial digging. My guess is its the females, and I think this is what's going on in my tank whist the males settle their pecking order.

Bob


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## Al-Losaurus

That is what i used to do kenny works good if you dont mind getting your hand wet. Glad they started breeding for you. I think they were holding out on me cause the single calvus male i had with them kept eating there babies. How many fry did you get most i seen was 4-5 at a time.


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## FISHBUM

Best thing to do is start getting into a routine of hatching brine shrimp. With multies I used to keep I'd always have a small batch of brine shrimp nauplii on the go and feed with a pipette. I'd blast some shrimp down to the shells and the fry would come out to grab em. Also the adults like the nauplii. 

An option for your tank:
I kept Julidochromis with multies and all the fish were breeding successfully. I had a 20-gallon long and had the shells at one end and caves, rocks on the other end. The fish all kept to their quarters. Occasionally the male multies would venture over and flare with the Julies but nothing ever resulted. Good species would be Jul. transcriptus, sp. Gombe, or ornatus. These three stay smaller and are less aggressive than the larger species of Julies.

Steer away from Neolamprologus leleupi with shell dwellers. A friend of mine had them together and the leleupi eventually killed off the multies. 

Nick


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## CallMeKenny

hawkeye said:


> Whatever works, but I now have this contraption sitting in the living room. Makes for some interesting conversations.
> 
> Did you ever notice who did the initial digging. My guess is its the females, and I think this is what's going on in my tank whist the males settle their pecking order.
> 
> Bob


When I am watching the tank I usually see the male moving sand around, but every so often the female will throw some around also. In my tank there is a pair on the left side and then a group on the right side with 2 older babies. There is a also a wanderer that seems to go all over the tank. 



Al-Losaurus said:


> That is what i used to do kenny works good if you dont mind getting your hand wet. Glad they started breeding for you. I think they were holding out on me cause the single calvus male i had with them kept eating there babies. How many fry did you get most i seen was 4-5 at a time.


So far I have only been able to see 3 fry at one time, but there could be more as they blend in with the sand very well.



FISHBUM said:


> Best thing to do is start getting into a routine of hatching brine shrimp. With multies I used to keep I'd always have a small batch of brine shrimp nauplii on the go and feed with a pipette. I'd blast some shrimp down to the shells and the fry would come out to grab em. Also the adults like the nauplii.
> 
> An option for your tank:
> I kept Julidochromis with multies and all the fish were breeding successfully. I had a 20-gallon long and had the shells at one end and caves, rocks on the other end. The fish all kept to their quarters. Occasionally the male multies would venture over and flare with the Julies but nothing ever resulted. Good species would be Jul. transcriptus, sp. Gombe, or ornatus. These three stay smaller and are less aggressive than the larger species of Julies.
> 
> Steer away from Neolamprologus leleupi with shell dwellers. A friend of mine had them together and the leleupi eventually killed off the multies.
> 
> Nick


I have actually been researching brine shrimp and I think I will give it a shot if I can figure out how to start . 
Do you think I have room for more fish in the tank? I was hoping to get more colour and variety, but I wasn't sure if it would cause problems with only 20 gallons of water.


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## FISHBUM

Biggest thing with Tanganyikans is providing them with clean water. In my opinion there's no such thing as too many water changes. I used to do 25% water changes every two days and the fish thrived! 

As long as you provide ample filtration and water changes, you can have quite a number of fish. 

I could see no harm in having 6 juvie Julies (to start with until they pair off), along with your current stock of Multies. 

Nick


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## FISHBUM

Brine Shrimp are really easy to hatch and have available for your fish. Just have an airstone ready to go. I used to use 750ml pop bottles.

I can't remember the salt mixture to use. 

To collect the nauplii, remove aeration and point a light at the bottle from above. The nauplii are attracted to the light and makes it easier to collect them. I'd use a pipette or small syringe. 

I never worried about the salt getting in the tank as I was doing frequent water changes and a bit of salt in a Tanganyikan tank is somewhat beneficial. Make sure to use coarse salt and not table salt!!

Nick


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## CallMeKenny

FISHBUM said:


> Biggest thing with Tanganyikans is providing them with clean water. In my opinion there's no such thing as too many water changes. I used to do 25% water changes every two days and the fish thrived!
> 
> As long as you provide ample filtration and water changes, you can have quite a number of fish.
> 
> I could see no harm in having 6 juvie Julies (to start with until they pair off), along with your current stock of Multies.
> 
> Nick


I think I will do some research until I can find some stones I like and setup the tank. Hopefully I can find some Julies close to me 

Are there any specific types of Julies that I should look into or stay away from?


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## FISHBUM

As far rock, slate is fantastic! Julies love tight caves and laying their eggs upside down in my experience. A flat piece of slate works great for this. I typically would leave an 1-inch of space for them to get in. You can stack slate nicely too with it being flat. Small slate bathroom tiles make great options for propping up the bigger pieces of slate. They're also flat and even so you can stack without running the risk of it toppling. Using this method you can stack all the way to the surface if you so please to.

As for Julie species, stick with these three:
Julidochromis ornatus
Julidochromis transcriptus
Julidochromis sp. "gombe"

Those three are the smallest and least aggressive. The larger J.marlieri and J.regani would get too large for your tank to house along with the multies and they're considerably more aggressive. 

Nick


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## CallMeKenny

FISHBUM said:


> As far rock, slate is fantastic! Julies love tight caves and laying their eggs upside down in my experience. A flat piece of slate works great for this. I typically would leave an 1-inch of space for them to get in. You can stack slate nicely too with it being flat. Small slate bathroom tiles make great options for propping up the bigger pieces of slate. They're also flat and even so you can stack without running the risk of it toppling. Using this method you can stack all the way to the surface if you so please to.
> 
> As for Julie species, stick with these three:
> Julidochromis ornatus
> Julidochromis transcriptus
> Julidochromis sp. "gombe"
> 
> Those three are the smallest and least aggressive. The larger J.marlieri and J.regani would get too large for your tank to house along with the multies and they're considerably more aggressive.
> 
> Nick


I like the yellow of the Juli Ornatus, do you know any places in/near Scarborough that might have them?


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## FISHBUM

No idea mate. Best to just call around. I just moved to Southern Ontario so can't help ya. haha. Maybe someone on the forum has some fry/juvies available!?

Nick


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## Al-Losaurus

I just sold my ornatus a day or 2 before you grabbed those lol try mike at finatics that is were i found them before. I have some chalinochromis brichardi available they are a lot like julidchromis.


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## CallMeKenny

Al-Losaurus said:


> I just sold my ornatus a day or 2 before you grabbed those lol try mike at finatics that is were i found them before. I have some chalinochromis brichardi available they are a lot like julidchromis.


Are these more aggressive than julidchromis? I was at BigAls today and their Ornatus were $18 each..


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## Al-Losaurus

They are actually pretty peaceful i have not once seen them fight with another species since i have had them. The biggest one i have bullies just one of the smaller ones and that is pretty much why it stayed smaller. But they tend to just do there own thing.

If you decide to go julidchromis you should check with mike at finatics his prices for them are way better then $18 it sucks he moved so far but worth the travel


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## FISHBUM

Typical for stores. They're always out to lunch on pricing. 

Chalinochromis will get too large for your 20 gal long to house along with the shellies. 

Nick


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## CallMeKenny

Do you guys think Anubias Nana will grow/survive under my standard tank lighting and with these fish?


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## Al-Losaurus

Yes it will they are low light plants multies will not touch them either i have had it with them. Anubias grows extremely slow you may only get a new leaf once every 2-3 weeks. You will also have to clean the algae off of the leaves every few weeks. But go for it they look nice and most fish wont touch them.


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## CallMeKenny

Al-Losaurus said:


> Yes it will they are low light plants multies will not touch them either i have had it with them. Anubias grows extremely slow you may only get a new leaf once every 2-3 weeks. You will also have to clean the algae off of the leaves every few weeks. But go for it they look nice and most fish wont touch them.


Alright thanks, I will add one when I finally get around to scaping the tank.


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## CallMeKenny

The fry count has now reached 11 

Tried to get some videos of them!


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## Al-Losaurus

Nice so that means when i had them the fry must have been getting picked off by the one calvus i had with them lol from what i seen there are 2 different breeding pairs out of that group right?


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## CallMeKenny

Al-Losaurus said:


> Nice so that means when i had them the fry must have been getting picked off by the one calvus i had with them lol from what i seen there are 2 different breeding pairs out of that group right?


Yea they must have been lunch for the calvus as I am seeing new fry almost every couple weeks! From what I have seen while watching them, there are 2 breeding pairs in the group.


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