# My fish is swimming sideways and very sluggish



## plakadista

Hi guys! I was wondering if any of the guys in this forum has any experience with discus..hopefully a lot of you does!  well my prob is that one of my discus fish is swimming sideways. Hes been doing this since saturday night..i changed about 30% of the water yesterday and now he is kind of doing fine. I will change another 30% of the water later..

I say kind of because after the water change, he is back to swimming upright but whenever i check on him, he goes to the corner and start laying on his side again. What worries me the most is that he is not eating at least when im around..i dont know if he does when i go away. What should i do? I tested the water yesterday and it was fine..

Ph: 7.4
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite:0
Nitrate: 5-10 ppm

I will test again later when i get back from work.


The fish is in the quarantine tank btw. I got them 1 week and a half ago. Theres 4 of them and i put them on the quarantine tank. I transfered 3 to the main tank because they look healthy and begging for food. The one swimming sideways is left behind.

Please give me any suggestions. Does not matter if you have experience with discus. I appreciate any suggestions you guys can give me. 

Thanks guys!


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## plakadista

Ths thread is transferred to the general discussion for freshwater


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## montelovers

Hi. It could be suffering from swim bladder issues. If it tries to swim, does it seem like it's struggling with the fins flayling around like mad just trying to keep up? I had the same issue with mine and some epsom salt helped a bit it seems. I believe it's one tablespoon per 10 gallon.
If you have it in quarantine, try lowering the water level just so it reaches the top of its dorsal fin.. then every day or so, try adding a bit more water. This will help reduce the pressures on the swim bladder and help heal.
Just something to try and see without medicating. If that doesn't help, then it's something else for sure.


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## TankCla

What about colors? Feces? What are you feeding them?
Your water is good, don't change another 30%. You might disturb nitrifying bacteria.


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## plakadista

montelovers said:


> Hi. It could be suffering from swim bladder issues. If it tries to swim, does it seem like it's struggling with the fins flayling around like mad just trying to keep up? I had the same issue with mine and some epsom salt helped a bit it seems. I believe it's one tablespoon per 10 gallon.
> If you have it in quarantine, try lowering the water level just so it reaches the top of its dorsal fin.. then every day or so, try adding a bit more water. This will help reduce the pressures on the swim bladder and help heal.
> Just something to try and see without medicating. If that doesn't help, then it's something else for sure.


swim bladder issues is what im thinking of as well. when i go away then i come back in a few min or hours i catch him floating around the mid part of the tank. not swimming but just floating. when i come close to check on him he swims to the corner and goes back to laying on his side. I feed him just flake food for now. i put a little this morning but he didnt eat any of it... i really have no clue what is up with him now..haha

im gonna try lowering the water but i only have a HOB filter right now so i dont know..im gonna get some epsom salt later and try it out..do i put the salt before i lower the water? or just leave out the epsom salt for now and just lower the water and just put the epsom salt when the tank is full?


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## plakadista

TankCla said:


> What about colors? Feces? What are you feeding them?
> Your water is good, don't change another 30%. You might disturb nitrifying bacteria.


the last time i saw feces was 2 days ago and it was back..i havent seen some anymore..probably why he doesnt eat as much...or at all..would you think its something in his stomack thats the problem?


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## Kooka

Possibly a bacterial or parasitic infection. Is it a new fish? I would quarantine him and try treating with an antibiotic medicine or prazipro.


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## TankCla

I has asking about feces, because can be an infection. 
Discus is very sensitive to changes. Because this happened a week after purchase, I don't think is about acclimatization.
They are very shy and tend to stress a lot, and when you move them from one tank to another, the very parasites and bacteria that came with the fish, can make a move an the weakened body.
First symptom of infection is white feces.
If salt doesn't do the magic in 24h (do not stop filtration, water must be very good, doesn't matter if tank is full of water or not), try metro.
Metro is the best treatment for discus. It doesn't disturb bacteria in filter. BA sells it for 8$ (seachem). It did the magic for me for about 5 years. Oh, and parasite guard if he is using only one operculum to breathe.

Good luck!

Regards,
Claude


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## TankCla

Discus breeders, usually feed them with beef heart and/or bloodworms.
Have you tried something like this with them?
Maybe he will eat.


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## plakadista

TankCla said:


> I has asking about feces, because can be an infection.
> Discus is very sensitive to changes. Because this happened a week after purchase, I don't think is about acclimatization.
> They are very shy and tend to stress a lot, and when you move them from one tank to another, the very parasites and bacteria that came with the fish, can make a move an the weakened body.
> First symptom of infection is white feces.
> If salt doesn't do the magic in 24h (do not stop filtration, water must be very good, doesn't matter if tank is full of water or not), try metro.
> Metro is the best treatment for discus. It doesn't disturb bacteria in filter. BA sells it for 8$ (seachem). It did the magic for me for about 5 years. Oh, and parasite guard if he is using only one operculum to breathe.
> 
> Good luck!
> 
> Regards,
> Claude


Come to think of it, when i got them, i did put the water that came with the bag into the tank so that might have something to do with it..

Ill get some epsom salt tomorrow from walmart..shoppers drugmart only sells scented once and i dont trust using that..

Ill pass by BA too to get some of those metro youre talking about..

I have not tried feeding them any frozen foods yet..the owner of the store only fed them flakes or maybe he was just lying..haha ill definitely grab some frozen beefheart and bloodworms tomorrow as well.. Do you know what kind of brands are the best?


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## plakadista

Kooka said:


> Possibly a bacterial or parasitic infection. Is it a new fish? I would quarantine him and try treating with an antibiotic medicine or prazipro.


I habe no idea where to get antibiotics..or do they sell it on lfs as well?


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## TankCla

plakadista said:


> I habe no idea where to get antibiotics..or do they sell it on lfs as well?


Metro is antibiotic.



plakadista said:


> Come to think of it, when i got them, i did put the water that came with the bag into the tank so that might have something to do with it..


Never do that.



plakadista said:


> Ill get some epsom salt tomorrow from walmart..shoppers drugmart only sells scented once and i dont trust using that..


Buy aquarium salt (API for freshwater) from BA or petsmart.



plakadista said:


> I have not tried feeding them any frozen foods yet..the owner of the store only fed them flakes or maybe he was just lying..haha ill definitely grab some frozen beefheart and bloodworms tomorrow as well.. Do you know what kind of brands are the best?


Doesn't matter the brand. I make my own mixture at home (beefheart, salmon, shrimp, vegetables)


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## plakadista

TankCla said:


> Metro is antibiotic.


oh..i didnt know metro is antibiotic..haha i have never used it before..



TankCla said:


> Buy aquarium salt (API for freshwater) from BA or petsmart.


oh i have that! i used to try and cure itch.. so whichever salt i use doesnt matter? whether it would be epsom or just aquarium salt??



TankCla said:


> Doesn't matter the brand. I make my own mixture at home (beefheart, salmon, shrimp, vegetables)


Oh really? thats so cool! haha maybe i should try that..


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## TankCla

plakadista said:


> so whichever salt i use doesnt matter? whether it would be epsom or just aquarium salt??


If you do a simple google search, you will see that epsom salt is magnesium sulfate, and aquarium salt is sodium chloride.
It does matter! I would not use a product with sulfur on my fish.


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## plakadista

TankCla said:


> If you do a simple google search, you will see that epsom salt is magnesium sulfate, and aquarium salt is sodium chloride.
> It does matter! I would not use a product with sulfur on my fish.


You make a good point..i only have a HOB filter..should i just get a sponge filter or something and replace it..the hob filter has a built in carbon on it..


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## TankCla

Why changing cycled hob with a new sponge? Take out active carbon from QT. 
You need quality water in your QT, otherwise you increase the level of stress.

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## montelovers

Epsom salt is recommended for constipation and issues like that and is safe to use at 1 tablespoon per 10 gallons. Epsom salts and aquarium salts are both safe but do different things. Epsom is what you would need here and you would put in as much as required for the amount of water you have, not the size of the tank. So if you have 10 gallons of water in your 29 gallon tank, just add 1 tablespoon, not 3. It might help but if it's something else that's bacterial or parasitic, then you'll need meds. Even frozen peas (if the fish is eating) could help with constipation if that's the issue.


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## TankCla

Constipation for humans. For fish constipation, rare, and/or air in the intestines, more common to gold fish, it' recommended oil (fish oil, olive oil), directly in the mouth.

Discus will not swim on a side from constipation. Air bubbles in intestines, very rare, almost impossible since they are middle to bottom feeders.

The "flotation device" is usually affected by internal infections. 

I recommend, before antibiotics, put salt and look at any feces you find in the tank. Color and shape (straight or curly) 

Regards,
C.

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## plakadista

TankCla said:


> Why changing cycled hob with a new sponge? Take out active carbon from QT.
> You need quality water in your QT, otherwise you increase the level of stress.
> 
> Sent from my BlackBerry using Tapatalk


I have a marineland hob filter with bio wheel on the QT tank and the filter pad is attached to the carbon..so if i take put carbon then i take out the blue filter pad..wouldnt it stop cleaning the water if i take it out?


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## TankCla

I am sorry! Never used hob filters, and I can't answer. But it has to be a way to remove carbon from there. 
Active carbon will remove all chemicals from water, including medicine. 


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## plakadista

TankCla said:


> I am sorry! Never used hob filters, and I can't answer. But it has to be a way to remove carbon from there.
> Active carbon will remove all chemicals from water, including medicine.
> 
> Sent from my BlackBerry using Tapatalk


I have an idea..maybe ill take out the filter pad and just leave the bio wheel on. Hopefully it keeps turning even without the filter pad.. Then ill just get a sponge filter so there is still filtration..would that work?


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## TankCla

Ask at your LPS if they have filter media without active carbon for this type of marineland. 

If you will use this hob filter only for QT, you don't need active carbon in it (chemical filtration). Only mechanical and biological filtration. 

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## plakadista

TankCla said:


> Ask at your LPS if they have filter media without active carbon for this type of marineland.
> 
> If you will use this hob filter only for QT, you don't need active carbon in it (chemical filtration). Only mechanical and biological filtration.
> 
> Sent from my BlackBerry using Tapatalk


Ok. Im actually at BA ryt now..ill let you know what happens..


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## plakadista

ok soo..i just got rid of my active carbon. i got a big white filter pad for like 7 bucks in BA and just cut it up to fit the filter and that should do the trick.. should I readd salt because i put in salt last night but there was still active carbon in the filter when i put it in..


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## Riceburner

for Marineland HOB filters with carbon....just cut a slit on the back and dump out the carbon.


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## TankCla

Don't put more salt. Salinity is not affected by active carbon.

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## plakadista

TankCla said:


> Don't put more salt. Salinity is not affected by active carbon.
> 
> Sent from my BlackBerry using Tapatalk


Gotcha. I hope that he'll be fine by later tonight..ill put an update later..

thanks so much!


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## montelovers

Well I will leave it here.. you can certainly google Discus and epsom salt/constipation and see that it's a remedy used by the pros as well. All I know is that it worked for my discus that was suffering the same issue.


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## TankCla

montelovers said:


> Well I will leave it here.. you can certainly google Discus and epsom salt/constipation and see that it's a remedy used by the pros as well. All I know is that it worked for my discus that was suffering the same issue.


Don't take it personally, man!
I am sure it did the magic for you.

Regards,
C.

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## Jackson

montelovers said:


> Well I will leave it here.. you can certainly google Discus and epsom salt/constipation and see that it's a remedy used by the pros as well. All I know is that it worked for my discus that was suffering the same issue.


I've only heard of using Epsom salt for constipation not aquarium salt.

Well worth doing some research as suggested above.

If it's bacterial you'll need to use meds.


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## TankCla

I am sorry guys! I did not explain the role of (natural salt) in discus tank and any freshwater tank. 
Salt is used particularly in discus tanks to increase production of mucus (discus milk) when they have fry, and/or to clear them of some external parasites. 
In freshwater tanks, in general, natural salt is used to improve elimination of toxins and absorption of oxygen trough electrolysis. And much more. 

We have the simplest tool now, google, and all sort of aquarium safe products. 
It's not like 20 years ago, when we used potassium permanganate to treat everything and kill out fish. 

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## plakadista

montelovers said:


> Well I will leave it here.. you can certainly google Discus and epsom salt/constipation and see that it's a remedy used by the pros as well. All I know is that it worked for my discus that was suffering the same issue.


i actually have researched about it..but right now im not entirely sure what it is im dealing with..the fish seem to be fine when im not around..he is swimming upright but just stay put in one place and sometimes swims really slowly to another spot. when i get close and watch him, he goes to the corner and lays on his side again.. he is also not eating. im gonna try to feed him some beefheart tomorrow..



Jackson said:


> I've only heard of using Epsom salt for constipation not aquarium salt.
> 
> Well worth doing some research as suggested above.
> 
> If it's bacterial you'll need to use meds.


i hope its not bacterial.. but if he is still the same, then ill try some meds and if it still fails then ill probably try epsom salt.



TankCla said:


> I am sorry guys! I did not explain the role of (natural salt) in discus tank and any freshwater tank.
> Salt is used particularly in discus tanks to increase production of mucus (discus milk) when they have fry, and/or to clear them of some external parasites.
> In freshwater tanks, in general, natural salt is used to improve elimination of toxins and absorption of oxygen trough electrolysis. And much more.
> 
> We have the simplest tool now, google, and all sort of aquarium safe products.
> It's not like 20 years ago, when we used potassium permanganate to treat everything and kill out fish.
> 
> Sent from my BlackBerry using Tapatalk


someone suggested to me to use potassium permanganate too but i didnt want to because i dont exactly know how to use it and how it will react.


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## TankCla

I stopped using potassium permanganate on fish 10 years ago, since I killed every fish in the QT.

Since the fish is alone in QT and he is not happy about it, put something for him to hide. Dim the lights.
Stay in shade and watch the fish for 30 min. If he swims on one side only when you are close to the tank, maybe he is not sick. 
Everything is new for him. He is scared, and if you are looking down to him, he will tilt to see you better. Got the picture?
Look at him from the same level with the tank. No sudden moves. Test him to see if he is scared or sick.


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## plakadista

TankCla said:


> Since the fish is alone in QT and he is not happy about it, put something for him to hide. Dim the lights.


i should probably do that.. ill put in a couple fake plants..



TankCla said:


> Stay in shade and watch the fish for 30 min. If he swims on one side only when you are close to the tank, maybe he is not sick.
> Everything is new for him. He is scared, and if you are looking down to him, he will tilt to see you better. Got the picture?
> Look at him from the same level with the tank. No sudden moves. Test him to see if he is scared or sick.


come to think of it, the tank is on the floor and doesnt have a stand so yeah i look down to him. but he is not eating though..is that just a sign of loneliness? maybe i should just put him in the main tank with the other fish.. :/


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## TankCla

C'mon, man! What do you aspect? To raise the nose and look up to you? He has the eyes on the side of the body. It is normal to swim on the side.

Put him with the others, let the QT running, and watch him a few days.
Look for discoloration, feces color, appetite and shyness.

You can put some aquarium salt in your display tank (according to instruction on package)


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## plakadista

TankCla said:


> C'mon, man! What do you aspect? To raise the nose and look up to you? He has the eyes on the side of the body. It is normal to swim on the side.
> 
> Put him with the others, let the QT running, and watch him a few days.
> Look for discoloration, feces color, appetite and shyness.
> 
> You can put some aquarium salt in your display tank (according to instruction on package)


haha i apologize man! this is my first experience with discus and my first QT tank too! ive never tried setting up QT tank before!


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## TankCla

Don't worry!
The only way to learn in this hobby is the hard way. 

With Discus is difficult at the beginning, then is just maintenance.


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## plakadista

TankCla said:


> Don't worry!
> The only way to learn in this hobby is the hard way.
> 
> With Discus is difficult at the beginning, then is just maintenance.


haha yeah i guess every beginner has to go through that..

I just checked on him earlier and he seems to be swimming fine but now hes bumping into the glass now.. he still have some food left over on the bottom of the tank so i guess he never ate..

I will put him into the main tank tomorrow and see how it goes from there!


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## deragoku

Can be sure Google discus and Epsom salts / constipation, and see its pros and cons, and remedies. All I know is that my discus, suffered the same problem.


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## TankCla

In all my 16 years of aquarium keeping, I never had a constipated fish. I you have this problem, change the food. There are a lot of home made recipes for discus. 


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