# Very strange behavior.



## Plaid (Nov 10, 2008)

I'm just curious, now that I have a basic understanding of how the planted tank works. Mine's about half planted, and I run the light 16 hours a day. I know this encourages algae, but does it harm the growth of other plants? I have a trio of ottos in a 50g that keep the algae to a minimum.

Now, to the real question:
HOW
do I keep my Scalare angelfish, Marlena, from nomming up all my plants? I feed a Tetra Tropical Crisps every other day, and frozen bloodworms on the other days. I am getting quite attached to Marlena, but if I need to return her to the store, I suppose I can...
Is there anything I can do to discourage her leafy indulgences?
My real focus for this tank will be a half-dozen M. boesmani, so I SUPPOSE I can live without an angel.

And ideas? Also, photoperiod?

Thanks,
-Wes


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## desjardo (Aug 30, 2008)

I only run my lights 10hrs max. As far as the fish eating leaves I'm sure someone will jump in and help you out. But 16hrs won't benefit the plants any more than 8-12...


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Can't help with the scalare, besides saying to offer leafy foods, but they'll probably be ignored for the nicer lively plants in your tank.

Also, if you're keeping lights on 16hrs a day since you sleep late at night (as I do), just turn them on later. My tanks are typically lit from around noon till 11 pm.

As an aside, rainbowfish love plants. I had a small group of Ornate rainbows, and they devoured all new growth from all my plants. Just a FYI since you're looking at the boesmanis.


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## gamexeater (Jan 21, 2009)

Just to start off..i've never had angelfish, nor have i had any problems with fish and plants (not that i have many fish >.<). Ok so, I think you should reduce your photoperiod by like half or more. You haven't specified if you're using fertilizers, CO2, if your tank is heavily/lightly stocked, wattage on lights. Those, especially ferts and co2, will have some effect on how long your photoperiod is. The longer you have the lights on the more the plants will photosynthesize, but as soon as some nutrient gets limited...algae farm 

This is just speculation but it seems from my experience that if you have lower wattage on your bulb you might have to keep it on longer in order to grow the plants at the same rate as they would under high wattage. But don't take my word for that..it's pure speculation afterall hehe.

In terms of keeping your angelfish away from eating your plants, what ameekplec said about offering some leafy foods + getting some plants that they fish dont' generally pick at. I think there are some plants that, for some reason, plants/invertebrates (snails) don't consume but i don't know how that's going to help with the plants that are already in there :S. Or you could try finding some crazy weed plant that grows like mad that the angelfish will eat, that way the plant can grow faster than the rate at which it is being eaten.

EDIT: Sorry it seems i overlooked one of your questions: "does it harm the growth of plants." Yes, it would harm the growth of the plants, by having unbalanced nutrient levels you will see signs of deficiencies in your plant that will be unappealling in some cases. The presence of algae because of the imbalance might have some adverse effects on your plant (depending on the algae).

Here's just a good site with lots of articles and stuff on planted aquaria, i only stumbled upon it after being in the hobby for several months but it would have been such a help if i discovered it earlier. Interesting stuff 
http://www.aquatic-eden.com/


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## Plaid (Nov 10, 2008)

Oh dear. Nutrient deficiencies does seem to be an issue here.
I'm growing some hygro, some java fern, some crypts, and some anubias. I've got a bit of Microsword in there, but realistically... I'm not expecting anything miraculous.

The anubias and fern have a nasty little bit of algae on them. It looks like thick little hairs. Sort of like... .3cm long, .1cm diameter. Brown nastiness. I'm just going to pick it off soon, as it isn't growing at all.

Now, my plants are just UGLY right now. They've developed little black patches, and are shedding leaves around my tank. Sort of melting. They look like they are just dying there.

Water Stats: Whitby Standard. Hard, 7.2pH, etc.
10.5 hour photoperiod, as per advice.

Any ideas? Do you all need a picture of the algae and the plant-melt?

Thanks again,
-Wes

PS, no voodoo. I'm trying to keep this tank low-maintanence, so no daily fert routines or any voodoo like that. Once a week, I could manage ferts.
Remember, I don't want an Amano-quality tank, or even a tank like anyone who's posted here. I just want to be able to keep simple plants alive.


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## Plaid (Nov 10, 2008)

Bump, anyone? I'm looking at you, Darkblade.


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## pat3612 (Jan 29, 2008)

If you want a low maintenace tank I would just get some plant tabs and put them under your subtrate If you want some co2 which I dont think you need but helps the plants out you could just add some flourish excel.


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## Plaid (Nov 10, 2008)

Actually, I do not believe that the problem is nutrients in my substrate. I'm using 100% Flourite, and it's about 3 inches deep. I think I'm lacking something in my water column. Could anyone send me a "recipe" for a basic fert? I could dose up to every other day, although I'd REALLY like to do it once a week, as I am going to school soon and want this tank to be realistic for a person who lacks our enthusiasm.

Thanks,
Wes.


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## JamesG (Feb 27, 2007)

I have to disagree with a lot of the comments on here. I have no reason to believe that too long of a photoperiod, by itself, will result in poor plant growth or algae problems. My 210 is lit for 14 hours/day and the plants are immaculate and algae free. This was the case in my 90 gallon with the same light pattern, also all of my 20 gallons. Before I forget to mention it I never fertilize any of my tanks. 

In my opinion only having the lights on over your tank for 8 hours or less a day is just unacceptable as I want to be able to enjoy looking at my fish in the morning at breakfast and at dinner. 

Algae does do well in a situation with a nutrient imbalance but there are other ways to ensure that 'free nutrient' levels are kept in check. My preferred method is to keep a variety of different plants in each tank. Each plant species has some difference in nutrient uptake rate for each macro and micro nutrient so when all are competing with each other they can easily outcompete the algae. On Sunday I will try and unearth one of my thick botany textbooks from my parents house where I am sure I can get some data from which I have derived this method. 

Also as an aside, greenhouses (in this part of the world) do not simply rely on the photoperiod length of a regular day, they extend it by turning on all of their lights. Plants do not need much in the way of 'time off' or the Rubisco enyzmes start breaking down stored carbohydrate and defeat the purpose of the previous day's carbon fixing. 

Sorry if this got a bit off of your original topic but it does address at least the photoperiod query.


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## Calmer (Mar 9, 2008)

Hi Plaid 
What is the wattage and the type of lighting that you have on the 50 Gal. tank? I do not believe it has been mentioned yet.


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## Plaid (Nov 10, 2008)

Oh, I'm terribly sorry about that. It's fairly lowlight, a 96w CP over the 50g. It is 20" deep.

James: I'm always open do doing unconventional things, but I'll be leaving experiments with photoperiod untill after I solve problems.

Calmer: anything else you need? Sorry about never getting back to you about those plant cuttings. My dad had a heart attack when I was interested, and I totally forgot about it. But he is fine now, for the record. 

Thanks,
Wes


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

Plaid said:


> Oh, I'm terribly sorry about that. It's fairly lowlight, a 96w CP over the 50g. It is 20" deep.


At almost 2 WPG, I'd say it's a little more than low light (maybe medium light).

Anyway, have you identified your algae yet? It might be Staghorn, or maybe BBA, from your description. I can't really think of any other algae that is brown and hairy, as you described.


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## JamesG (Feb 27, 2007)

Plaid said:


> James: I'm always open do doing unconventional things, but I'll be leaving experiments with photoperiod untill after I solve problems.


No problem bud, I just wanted to offer my two cents on photoperiod since it was brought up. I have a myriad of issues with the conventional wisdom on the subject and needed to vent.


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## Calmer (Mar 9, 2008)

Plaid said:


> Calmer: anything else you need? Sorry about never getting back to you about those plant cuttings. My dad had a heart attack when I was interested, and I totally forgot about it. But he is fine now, for the record.


No problem about replying about those plants. I never worry about stuff like that.  
I am glad that your Dad is feeling better and hopefully that will be the last one.



> Oh, I'm terribly sorry about that. It's fairly lowlight, a 96w CP over the 50g. It is 20" deep.


I would have bet money that low _light intensity_ was going to be the answer to your plant problems. It doesn't seem so as you have medium light as Darkblade48 mentioned earlier. Stay with the 10.5 hour photo period and see what happens. You can identify your algae here: http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/algae.htm


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## Plaid (Nov 10, 2008)

Well, I ID'd my custy brown algae. Turns out when you use Tetra's water clarifier, it works by clumping things together. Including diatoms, which become hard little nastinesses. Problem solved there.

I've just dosed with Big Al's all-purpose fertilizer. We will see if this helps.

Thank you all once again for the help. I will keep you posted.

Oh, and there is some good news!
I had one plant with a bit of staghorn algae on it. However, Marlena, the subject of the original post, has taken it upon herself to consume it. Problem solved.

Thanks,
-Wes


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## Prodicus (Nov 3, 2008)

Unless I've missed a response in this thread, there is a pretty significant fact that has been overlooked, namely, that the tank is "half planted".

According to many sources, two of the most important factors for controlling algae growth are plant _growth_ and plant _bio-mass_. First, if your plants can't grow because of carbon or nutrient deficiency, algae will grow. Secondly, if you don't have enough plant bio-mass to compete with the algae, the algae will thrive. Many sources take the latter issue to be the most import one. In my opinion, it is best to plant the tank as fully as possible right from the start.



Plaid said:


> I'm just curious, now that I have a basic understanding of how the planted tank works. Mine's about half planted, and I run the light 16 hours a day. ...


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