# A few random thoughts



## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

One of my mischling (crossed with black or red panda) had babies a few days ago, I took this pic 24 hrs after they were born. What's going on to the one on the right?



One of my projects I'm working on involves mischling. I'll do a full write up on that soon when I find time. But here is a comparison for you.

A regular golden crossed with golden, a few days before due day.


A mischling crossed with BKK. Also a few days before due date. You can see the black eggs that really stand out. This particular female mischling gave me about 8 BKK babies in her last batch, out of about 20 babies in total.


And this one, my son's marbled cray molted for the first time. He got the shell out and asked for a picture. Might as well make his hand and the molt famous ;-)


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

Okay, might as well add a few more pics while I'm at this.

Bumble bees.


Caridina formosae. Really cute and fastest swimmer (for a shrimp)


The CRS (selected) breeding project, F3 and going.


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## Jiinx (Apr 5, 2012)

Wow, great photos, randy! You're quite good at this.


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## PerryW (Feb 20, 2012)

Super cool with the egg colors. That is awsome. Can't wait for more berried females. I only have 1 lonely one berried ATM lol. Congrats they look good. Nice white crs too


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## novice (Mar 14, 2006)

*Crs*

Nice solid color - keep at it - soon we will have a Canadian line to brag about.


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

There are already some well known Canadian breeders with their lines. Mine are still far from being a line but I'm cheating by getting some nicer shrimps to help with my line. Should save a year or two in getting there. Hope to have them stable enough before letting out more pics.


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## novice (Mar 14, 2006)

*mischlings*

And I have 1st dibs on True michlings  correct.


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

novice said:


> And I have 1st dibs on True michlings  correct.


Some have your name on them already ;-)


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## LTPGuy (Aug 8, 2012)

*Newbie question*

What's a mischling?
Does the dark coloured eggs indicate the shrimps have crossed bred?


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## iBetta (Jun 19, 2011)

i LOVE formosaes! they swim like MAD all the time! XD


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

LTPGuy said:


> What's a mischling?
> Does the dark coloured eggs indicate the shrimps have crossed bred?


In shrimp keeping, mischling shrimps are mostly referring to non-Taiwan bee phenotype (what they look like) with Taiwan bee genotype (what genes they carry). Or, simply put, mischlings are just the offspring of Taiwan bees (or mischling) x Regular bee shrimps. The phenotype of mischlings are identical to regular bee shrimps.

Taiwan bees (TB): Black/Red King Kong of all types, Blue Bolts, ... etc.

Regular Bee shrimps: CRS,CBS,Golden,Snowwhite, ... etc.

So if you cross a TB with a regular bee shrimp, you get F1 mischling. Since these mischlings will carry certain/unknown amount of TB genes, they have the potential to produce TB if they cross with TB or other mischlings.

These are the basics, and of course there are more to it and how to increase the ratio of TB offspring from a mischling. I've been trying different things and the ratio of TB offspring ranges from 0% to over 50%. I know some people don't think it's possible to get 50% but this is the result from my female mischling kept in a breeder box, so I could count the ratio.

Like I said, I plan to do a write up on what I have learned on this topic. A few findings are against some common beliefs, so take it or leave it ;-)


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

Oh, and yes, those dark/black eggs will be TBs, some might be just CBS but mostly are BKKs. The super red ones are likely WR but I can't confirm this as I can't tell a WR baby with a regular CRS baby yet with what I have seen so far. And I have a few blue bolts coming out from these mischling (golden or CBS) crossed with a regular bkk 1 bar. I had different thoughts from online reading but more and more I'm leaning toward that blue bolts to TB are just like golden to regular bee shrimps. Since you can get golden from CRS or CBS, it makes sense that you can get BB from BKK, WR, mischlings.


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

Some pic of the TBs from mischlings,

Not sure if this is a WR panda, I still have a hard time telling WRs when they are little.


This is unmistakeably a black panda,


And the cute red eyes,


And another good thing about using mischling is you get the higher grade easier. In this batch I already have some like this.


And I swear I saw one BKK mosura, at least twice. But I haven't seen it for a few days. Would be nice if it's still somewhere in the tank.


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

Where'd you find the C. formosae ? Very cute, I'd love to have some of those. And, as usual, great pics and information. You da' shrimp guru, Randy!


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

Fishfur said:


> Where'd you find the C. formosae ? Very cute, I'd love to have some of those. And, as usual, great pics and information. You da' shrimp guru, Randy!


I got Caridina formosae from Tommy, I think it's like $1.79 ea or something like that. He has a sales going on, not sure if that's included in the sale or not.

The reason I got them, other than they are cute, is that I needed something to go with a tank of 5 TBs. I find if there's only a few shrimps in the tank they won't feed properly, with competition they will be more willingly to feed on what I give them. And since formosae is another name for Taiwan, so the name really fits to be in the same tank. (Taiwan bee + Caridina formosae (Taiwan). Oh, and yes, I'm from there too ;-)


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## LTPGuy (Aug 8, 2012)

randy said:


> In shrimp keeping, mischling shrimps are mostly referring to non-Taiwan bee phenotype (what they look like) with Taiwan bee genotype (what genes they carry). Or, simply put, mischlings are just the offspring of Taiwan bees (or mischling) x Regular bee shrimps. The phenotype of mischlings are identical to regular bee shrimps.
> 
> Taiwan bees (TB): Black/Red King Kong of all types, Blue Bolts, ... etc.
> 
> ...


Fascinating!! I am looking forward to your writeup, and thank you for sharing and educating.


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

So, I was paying special attention to this particular female mischling since I had her pic posted. And wanted to see how many TBs I got from her this time. I could count at least 8 black eggs in her. Last night I went home at around 12:30, and after feeding all the shrimp tanks I went to look for her. She was motionless  under a piece of IAL, I was so sad . So I use something to poke her to make sure she is dead before I remove her from the tank, she then sprang into life  I saw only like 3 or 4 eggs left in her belly, so I started looking in the tank for any babies. It's not easy to find new born babies in a tank with chola wood and moss, but I found a tiny blue baby. Yay, another BKK, so I was right. But then.... something is different....

For people who had TB babies, you probably know that black in TB starts with blue, but red isn't as easy to tell from regular CRS babies. At least for me, I find it hard to tell WR babies from regular CRS. I thought at least I can tell black ones from regular CBS....so I was happy to see that blue baby. After a minute or two.... I found something weird. This little guy is not just blue, it has some red in it too. I have not heard that red TB shows up as blue because apparently only black colour shows up as blue in the first few weeks.....so I took a picture (well, I then took over 50).... here you go. I don't know if this is something special, a tri-colour Taiwan bee? I have not seen anything like that anywhere. Here you go, could be something new. Or BKK babies are born like this in the first few hours.



BTW, after I found this one, I saw two others with the same colour. Wish them luck and survive.


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## MananaP (Jul 6, 2012)

If it is really dark, then it will darken at it grows up and become black. Looks like it is only a day or so old so yes it will get darker as it grows up. GL!


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## PerryW (Feb 20, 2012)

Lookin' good. Think it would look good in my tank Randy


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

Thanks Randy.. hope the mystery baby turns out to be something special. Wish I could make it to Tommy's opening.. if only to wish him luck.


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## bettaforu (Sep 6, 2009)

Randy that could also be a Mischling. I had a couple of babies born that were mischling and looked bluish to start but then the color turned to black and the reddish could mean it might have a brownish look as an adult, because they carry both the red and black genetics.

Keep us posted on these babies...they change so fast its hard to figure out which one is which as they grow.

Congrats on the babies.


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## Symplicity (Oct 14, 2011)

Looks like the famous spider man shrimp i saw on the web afew weeks ago... cant find link


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## camboy012406 (Jun 11, 2010)

Symplicity said:


> Looks like the famous spider man shrimp i saw on the web afew weeks ago... cant find link


your looking for this one?


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## camboy012406 (Jun 11, 2010)

Hey Randy hows your TB babies going? any deaths? can u share your water paramaters?thanks


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## Dman (May 1, 2012)

camboy012406 said:


> Hey Randy hows your TB babies going? any deaths? can u share your water paramaters?thanks


Ya randy why don't you post a couple pics


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## Symplicity (Oct 14, 2011)

camboy012406 said:


> your looking for this one?:d


thats the one _


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

There's nothing special about my parameters, I have multiple tanks and almost no two are set up the same way. Trying to figure out which one works the best for me. My bee shrimp tanks PH 5.3 - 6.0, TDS 120 - 160, GH 4 - 6, KH ~0.

I will post some more new pictures. I've been busy on other stuff and haven't paid much attention to those babies but I checked last night, I think those with red colour just turned to regular BKK/Panda after a few days. Probably the red colouration was just because they were freshly hatched so the shell on the head was thinner, and the colour of the internal organ showed.

I lost quite a bit of baby TBs and mischlings, especially after an accident of a faulty heater. I thought that would never happen to me but oh well. Lesson learned is don't touch those old heaters if they have been working fine. I lost more than half of the babies from the batch of 9 mischlings. The temperature was like 28 for 1.5 days. But did managed to save most of the adult shrimps, sadly TB babies loss was big but still managed to save 3 BB and maybe 5 BKK babies. Good thing is I moved some shrimps out of that tank so those are ok.

TBs are more finicky, I am still trying to figure out. I have found a few things that might have worked (time will tell) and I'm trying to repeat those things to see if they do work or just coincident. So many things to learn in this hobby, so much fun !

PS: that spider man shrimp sure looks gorgeous, maybe one day ;-)


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

'Spider man' shrimp is stunning. What's the breeding, if anyone knows ? Assuming they were a] available; and b] within my means; boy, they'd be very hard to resist. Pretty amazing colour blend on that guy.


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