# Plants appear a little pale.



## Sunstar (Jul 29, 2008)

They seem more light green than dark green, especially the swords. Is this an iron deficiency?

I just got seachem flourish and I've been adding a couple ml to the tank. 25 gallons, what is the safe dose? I think the plants are a little deprived.


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## Calmer (Mar 9, 2008)

Swords do like their iron. 
Are you using root tabs? 
Is it all the leaves, older leaves or just the newer ones?
Are the leaves distorted?
Check out this website and see if you can match it up to their description.
http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/deficiencies.htm


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## Sunstar (Jul 29, 2008)

I put iron tabs under the roots in june.

New growth is pale. Older leaves seem fine.
No distortion.

Looks like Iron:
I mgiht also have some NPK issues as well. I didn't fert for a while as I ran out. I just got water collum ferts this week. I shoved a couple fragments of a plant stake under or near some of the affected plants as well as a half an iron tab here and there. I think that should help. I am very leery of using plant tabs under the roots because I had several "explode" and severely polute my tank, causing two fish to die. Plant stakes don't seem to do that, but I put them in extremely cautiously.


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## Calmer (Mar 9, 2008)

I used this root fertiliser I bought from Pj's for my red rubin sword and it did well. All ferts are in a durable plastic spike and lasts a year. I had no problems and was very happy with the product. Cheaper and easier than root tabs in the long run. How's that for a product testimony. 
http://www.hagen.com/uk/aquatic/product.cfm?CAT=1&SUBCAT=121&PROD_ID=01076880030101
Oooh yeah, one drawback is remembering where you planted the spike a year later which isn't easy.


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## conix67 (Jul 27, 2008)

Interesting product. I'm not using plant fertilizer at all, and some plants are not doing well, so should give this a try.

Where's PJs in Thornhill area?


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## Calmer (Mar 9, 2008)

The plants that benefit most are heavy root feeders like sword and crypt plants. Also water lily like plants such as Nymphaea. There could be more but I am sure of those only. Does anyone know of other plants that are root feeders?
Anyways the fert spikes are about 7 or 8 dollars per pack of six.
Pj's at Thornhill:
http://www.pjspet.com/locations_o/loc_thornhill.html


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## Sunstar (Jul 29, 2008)

I will have to kepe that in mind the next time I am in BA's I am currently using terestial plant stakes under or near some of my root feeders.


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

In my experience, Val's rely heavily on their root column for nutrients.


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## Mr Fishies (Sep 21, 2007)

Calmer said:


> The plants that benefit most are heavy root feeders like sword and crypt plants. Also water lily like plants such as Nymphaea. There could be more but I am sure of those only. Does anyone know of other plants that are root feeders?


IME many plants are quite opportunistic and will adapt to a rich substrate and root fertilization *given the chance*. Even many stem plants if they are left with rooted bases and the tops trimmed instead of pulling the base and replanting the tops. IIRC developing root structure takes a lot out of the plant as it is very dense matter and acts as a sponge to soak up and store sugars - when we toss the roots out as part of maintenance, a lot of stored nutrient (carbs & sugars) go into the garbage and the plants behave more like floating plants than rooted plants trying to soak up nutrients as needed instead of storing.

H.difformis and H.polysperma are known as heavy water column feeders, but the same plants in an El Natural (or Walstad style) tank, (no water ferts and a soil under layer to the substrate) will develop a pretty big root structure to take advantage of the soil. I had to start keeping H.difformis in a 3" flower pot to contain it because roots got out of hand and into surrounding plants.

Also, B.monnieri, S.subulata, will get pretty agressive in a soil substrate, I've even had better luck with Anubias kept with roots buried into the substrate and only the rhizome showing than with roots exposed to fertilized water.


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## Sunstar (Jul 29, 2008)

Since I still have hte UGF, I suspect the plants may draw from that?


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

Sunstar said:


> Since I still have hte UGF, I suspect the plants may draw from that?


More likely it will become a twisted mass of roots.


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## Sunstar (Jul 29, 2008)

Well, its there more to provide some water flow. I got a HOB filter that does most of the work anyway. I like the current the powerhead gives a the moment. ALthough, at some point, when I get the desire to rip it apart, seeing that I made it past those hurdles, I'll make a river pipe system. 

I've just been looking in the tank, and some of those yellower leaves are greening up. SO the addition of either fert stick fragment, iron tab or collum ferts are helping. I think it's the iron tab, I shoved one under each plant. They seem to like it  but they don't last very long. 

I'm quite happy though, plants are really starting to do something and look GOOD. My one small val, that's near the front corner is sending out its first runner.


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## Calmer (Mar 9, 2008)

Mr Fishies said:


> IME many plants are quite opportunistic and will adapt to a rich substrate and root fertilization *given the chance*. Even many stem plants if they are left with rooted bases and the tops trimmed instead of pulling the base and replanting the tops. IIRC developing root structure takes a lot out of the plant as it is very dense matter and acts as a sponge to soak up and store sugars - when we toss the roots out as part of maintenance, a lot of stored nutrient (carbs & sugars) go into the garbage and the plants behave more like floating plants than rooted plants trying to soak up nutrients as needed instead of storing.
> 
> H.difformis and H.polysperma are known as heavy water column feeders, but the same plants in an El Natural (or Walstad style) tank, (no water ferts and a soil under layer to the substrate) will develop a pretty big root structure to take advantage of the soil. I had to start keeping H.difformis in a 3" flower pot to contain it because roots got out of hand and into
> surrounding plants.
> ...


An excellent reply, thanks Mr Fishies. 
I have added root ferts 2 weeks ago and did notice that the Hygrophila difformis and Hygrophila polysperma 'Rosanervig' are starting to grow faster and they are about 6" away from the root fert. The only macro ferts in the water column are fish wastes.


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## Sunstar (Jul 29, 2008)

you know what's growing like a weed? My riccia on a rock. I need to trim it, and the java moss on driftwood soon.


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## Julian (Jun 29, 2008)

good to see this thread going. I got some Flourish iron the other day on some advice. Now seeing that link i'm wondering if its Potassium. I don't use anything in my tank at the moment besides excel and the 1 dose of iron i've put in now. 

The java fern and vals were/are doing just fine. Its really just the moneywart that was the problem which is why i started looking into this at all. I knew at some point down the road the florite would run out of whatevers in it. 

so i guess i'm asking how often should i be adding the iron stuff. Also should i consider Flourish (micro stuff) or something that will give me the Macros


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