# Would carbon filter insert remove plants fertilizer from the water ?



## ppaskova (Apr 27, 2010)

Hi guys

I'm just wondering would carbon filter insert remove plants fertilizer from the water ? In my 30Gl tank I have live plants and also have two filters AC50 and AC30. Every time I change water I doze Flourish Excel and Flourish Iron in my tank. But right after that I turn on my filters and AC50 has a mix of carbon and ammonia remover (zerocarb) insert and AC30 has only ammonia remover insert (no carbon). And I'm worried that whatever fertilizer I dose to the tank getting immediately removed by the filter or my assumption incorrect ?


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## ppaskova (Apr 27, 2010)

*Can carbon filter insert remove plants fertilizer from the water ?*

I'm just wondering would carbon filter insert remove plants fertilizer from the water ? In my 30Gl tank I have live plants and also have two filters AC50 and AC30. Every time I change water I doze Flourish Excel and Flourish Iron in my tank. But right after that I turn on my filters and AC50 has a mix of carbon and ammonia remover (zerocarb) insert and AC30 has only ammonia remover insert (no carbon). And I'm worried that whatever fertilizer I dose to the tank getting immediately removed by the filter or my assumption incorrect ?


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

Activated carbon, in general, does not adsorb metallic ions very well (with some exceptions).

However, it is quite good at adsorbing organics, which include chelated metals. This means that your trace mix would be adsorbed rather quickly by the activated carbon.

I have never had a need to use activated carbon, unless I was remove medication or tannins from the water.


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

Was there really a need to cross post this across multiple subforums? 

http://gtaaquaria.com/forum/showthread.php?t=43338


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## Y2KGT (Jul 20, 2009)

Threads merged. Please don't post the same thread in multiple sections. If necessary a MOD can and will move a thread.
--
Paul


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

Many of us only use carbon if there is a need and just leave it out most of the time. Basically all my filters are just mechanical and biological filtration.


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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

Yep, we only keep the carbon around just incase of a tank meltdown or accidentally drop the entire fertz bottle into the tank.

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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

I take it that you have done that at least once? heehee


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## ppaskova (Apr 27, 2010)

Darkblade48 said:


> Activated carbon, in general, does not adsorb metallic ions very well (with some exceptions).
> 
> However, it is quite good at adsorbing organics, which include chelated metals. This means that your trace mix would be adsorbed rather quickly by the activated carbon.
> 
> I have never had a need to use activated carbon, unless I was remove medication or tannins from the water.


So you don't see need for carbon at all if I want my plants to grow ? Strangely enough I have another 10Gl shrimp tank where I have AC20 with zerocarb in it and my plants doing good there. But again there is smaller area between gravel and light and the light itself little stronger - 2 9W scue-in florescent daylight light bulbs on for 6hrs ad vs. my 30Gl - 2 T5Ho 24W each on for 8 hrs a day. But in my 30Gl I get a lot algae and leafs start getting yellow or brown when they reach an adult size, I'm not sure why ?


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

sounds like something is off, co2, ferts or something. Darkblade will probably know


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## charlie1 (Dec 1, 2011)

Check out this post on the Barrreport
http://www.barrreport.com/showthrea...d-carbon?highlight=carbon+in+the+planted+tank
Regards


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## ppaskova (Apr 27, 2010)

Here is another question. What about ammonia remover ? Would it also remove traces of fertilizer from water, same as carbon or it should be fine to use ?


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## ppaskova (Apr 27, 2010)

charlie1 said:


> Check out this post on the Barrreport
> http://www.barrreport.com/showthrea...d-carbon?highlight=carbon+in+the+planted+tank
> Regards


Well according to the post on that forum, carbon does no harm to plants of fertilizers but helps clean the water. In any case I'll be replacing my carbon inserts in my filters with Ammonia remover ones for a month and will see if it will make a difference for better or worse


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## Ischemia (Dec 19, 2012)

Live plants feed off the ammonia and nitrites in the tank. So using an ammonia remover is reducing the amount available food for your plants. I personally have no carbon or ammonia remover in my tank. Only using a sponge filter. Try replacing the 2 inserts with plain old filter sponge. It gives lots of places for the good bacteria to grow and will also keep your water nice and clean and not effect the fert you put in


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

the ammonia remover works for only so much ammonia and then it stops working. So, while the thing is working, your bacteria are dieing off due to not enough ammonia and nitrites. Then the ammonia remover stops working and suddenly you could have spikes of ammonia and nitrites.

I think things like that are just bad news


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## ppaskova (Apr 27, 2010)

pyrrolin said:


> the ammonia remover works for only so much ammonia and then it stops working. So, while the thing is working, your bacteria are dieing off due to not enough ammonia and nitrites. Then the ammonia remover stops working and suddenly you could have spikes of ammonia and nitrites.
> 
> I think things like that are just bad news


Don't get it. Please explain ? So how can I get sparks of ammonia if I have ammonia remover. So it is only working when I have ammonia there ? Don't understand at all !!!


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

ppaskova said:


> Don't get it. Please explain ? So how can I get sparks of ammonia if I have ammonia remover. So it is only working when I have ammonia there ? Don't understand at all !!!


Zeolite is known as a good ammonia adsorbent (it also can adsorb other nitrogenous compounds, as well as calcium, which can be undesirable).

If you have a functional biological filter, then there is no need for zeolite. The only time you may use it is if you have a lot of uneaten/rotting food and/or a dead fish that went unnoticed for some time, leading to an ammonia spike.

Once the zeolite is exhausted, it will no longer be able to adsorb ammonia. If there is still a source of ammonia, and without a functional biofilter, its removal will result in ammonia spikes.


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

what Darkblade said.

I am sure most of us here prefer to do it the natural way with bacteria. The old fashioned way is also cheaper, safer, more consistant


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## xriddler (Feb 16, 2012)

I am pretty sure i read one of your post before about your 30g tank not doing so well. I am pretty sure you use a 30 inch aquaticlife t5ho fixture dual bulb. The thing about this is im pretty sure you are getting too much light for your low light plants and you also stated you do not inject co2. I am pretty sure this is contributing to your algae as there not enough co2 for your plants to out compete the algae in your tank. You also mentioned you gravel vac everyweek and to my understanding your tank is not a dirt tank. you have to hang back on your gravel vacing to allow some fish mulm to accumulate for your plants as food. in terms of carbon it removes nitrogenous nutrients for your plants. in terms of using the ammonia remover it is a bad idea because plants use ammonia as a source of nutrients.


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## ppaskova (Apr 27, 2010)

xriddler said:


> I am pretty sure i read one of your post before about your 30g tank not doing so well. I am pretty sure you use a 30 inch aquaticlife t5ho fixture dual bulb. The thing about this is im pretty sure you are getting too much light for your low light plants and you also stated you do not inject co2. I am pretty sure this is contributing to your algae as there not enough co2 for your plants to out compete the algae in your tank. You also mentioned you gravel vac everyweek and to my understanding your tank is not a dirt tank. you have to hang back on your gravel vacing to allow some fish mulm to accumulate for your plants as food. in terms of carbon it removes nitrogenous nutrients for your plants. in terms of using the ammonia remover it is a bad idea because plants use ammonia as a source of nutrients.


Yes you are right about my previous posts. I'm already cleaning the tank every 2 weeks vs. every week as before. I'm going to remove any ammonia remover and carbon inserts from my filters and I'll try to drop the light from 8 hrs to 6 hrs. Let's see what is going to happen.


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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

charlie1 said:


> Check out this post on the Barrreport
> http://www.barrreport.com/showthrea...d-carbon?highlight=carbon+in+the+planted+tank
> Regards


Can't get anything out of that post by Tom. He only says he leaves his carbon in his filters.
We all tread very carefuly around this topic, but I can easily see why Tom and Amano doesn't really care.
Tom's EI method is based on dumping an excess of ferts than the plant needs then do a reset at the end of the week with a big water change. In his method, the activated carbon will have long been render obsolete. So leaving it in there or not makes not difference.
In Amano's case, he dose his tank by his amazing obervation of the way the plants grow (well, there is a time line method to the way he dose, if you bother to use his fertz and his method). But he himself though, he dose according to his "gut feel" about how much should go into they tank. So his own method would have compensated for the activated carbon absorbing the ferts. Hence again nulling the effect of the activated carbon.
But these are the masters of planted tanks. We on the other hand don't have green thumbs. So if I leave the carbon in there, there is an extra variable I have to take into account. I'd like to keep my tank simple and controlled, because I don't have the level of mastery like those two guys. So my preference would be with out the activated carbon. Why pay for something that is nullinfied in itself? It absorbs some of the fertz when you put a fresh batch in. So for the next 2 or 3 weeks, your tank might come up sort on nitrate for the first 3 weeks. Then, when the activated carbon is full, you'll go back to normal. But for these 2 or 3 weeks, you might have compensated by adding abit more nitrate. So on the 3rd week you might have overdose on nitrate etc. ... 
So, until I am good enough to gauge the growth of the tank and be able to deal with an extra issue accordingly. I would avoid the extra variable.

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## charlie1 (Dec 1, 2011)

Zebrapl3co said:


> Can't get anything out of that post by Tom. He only says he leaves his carbon in his filters.
> We all tread very carefuly around this topic, but I can easily see why Tom and Amano doesn't really care.
> Tom's EI method is based on dumping an excess of ferts than the plant needs then do a reset at the end of the week with a big water change. In his method, the activated carbon will have long been render obsolete. So leaving it in there or not makes not difference.
> In Amano's case, he dose his tank by his amazing obervation of the way the plants grow (well, there is a time line method to the way he dose, if you bother to use his fertz and his method). But he himself though, he dose according to his "gut feel" about how much should go into they tank. So his own method would have compensated for the activated carbon absorbing the ferts. Hence again nulling the effect of the activated carbon.
> ...


 I don`t have their expertise either
But all my research have not reaped any scientific proof to support the claim of adsorbing trace elements ( not saying it`s not out there , just have not seen it yet), from personal experience, i have not seen any negative impact in my tanks from using Carbon in my tanks, i love the polished look of the water & the benefits of reducing dissolved organics .
Regards


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

not all HOB's are the same, I like the aquaclear because you can pick and choose what media you want in it.

Many hobs just have that filter floss pouch with carbon in it. In those cases, you should have the filter floss in to filter out any particals. I personally would not worry about replacing it just because the carbon is used up as long as the floss is still good I would keep using it.

Personally I would only buy aquaclear or another brand that works the same way for media and totally avoid any that use those pouches with carbon inside you replace everyt 4 to 6 weeks.


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