# Pfr



## xriddler (Feb 16, 2012)

Hi everyone,

I would like to find out if PFRs are more sensitive than cherries? I bought ten PFRs monday and after acclimatization of 2 hours drip method i noticed that one shrimp was dead already. And today i have two more dead and with one very pale looking non moving PFR in the feeding tray with a barley pellet. its not eating but just sitting there. I dripped them for quite some time as the water rose from 1/4 to 3/4 full at 2-3 drips a second. all three dead shrimps had a break where the head meets the body. Your help is greatly appreciated as its a hard thing to watch all the pfrs slowly dieing.

I have tested my ammo 0 nitrite 0 nitrate 5 ph 7.6 gh 5 kh 8. one this notion i just did a water change to drop the nitrate level. Could 5 nitrate have killed/stressed the pfrs. they are in a non planted tank.


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## xriddler (Feb 16, 2012)

Here is the best possible picture i have. you can see the head then a break of white line and then the body. its like its head snapped. has anyone encountered this before?


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## LTPGuy (Aug 8, 2012)

xriddler said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I would like to find out if PFRs are more sensitive than cherries? I bought ten PFRs monday and after acclimatization of 2 hours drip method i noticed that one shrimp was dead already. And today i have two more dead and with one very pale looking non moving PFR in the feeding tray with a barley pellet. its not eating but just sitting there. I dripped them for quite some time as the water rose from 1/4 to 3/4 full at 2-3 drips a second. all three dead shrimps had a break where the head meets the body. Your help is greatly appreciated as its a hard thing to watch all the pfrs slowly dieing.
> 
> I have tested my ammo 0 nitrite 0 nitrate 5 ph 7.6 gh 5 kh 8. one this notion i just did a water change to drop the nitrate level. Could 5 nitrate have killed/stressed the pfrs. they are in a non planted tank.


Mine are doing fine in a planted setup, and the nitrate is definitely more than 10! Sorry I can't help any further, but would like to hear what the expert have to say!

Do you know what was the water parameter that they came in? I remember reading that a change in 1pH over the whole day max is acceptable.


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## camboy012406 (Jun 11, 2010)

xriddler said:


> Here is the best possible picture i have. you can see the head then a break of white line and then the body. its like its head snapped. has anyone encountered this before?


looks like molting problem


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## xriddler (Feb 16, 2012)

anything i can do to stop the molting problems?


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## manmadecorals (Jan 17, 2012)

Do you have any mineral rocks in your tank?


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## camboy012406 (Jun 11, 2010)

xriddler said:


> anything i can do to stop the molting problems?


try mosura mineral plus


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## Jaysan (Dec 19, 2011)

check the TDS of your tank, 
There might not be enough calcium or other minerals in the water for them to molt properly


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

It happens sometimes. I don't think it's anything you did. Your water seems to be great for PFRs parameter-wise. 

These shrimps can be bagged for days in shipping and I would expect them to survive in a bag for 5 days o rmore without issue. So if they die within a day or two in a new tank, either something in the tank they really don't like (any shrimps in that tank before?), or you caught them in the bad timing when the dead shrimps were about to molt, they are less tolerant to stress when molting.

So how many you got? how many didn't make it? How are the remaining doing?


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## xriddler (Feb 16, 2012)

From the ten i have 7 left but i am expecting bad news as i didnt notice before that one of them was missing an eye actually. so when i get home i am expecting unhappy results. only 2 of them are active and the others are very slow movers. I watched them all night worried sick as hell cause I'm new to shrimp only tank with just some floaters. This was a new setup i cycled with old media from my ac20 plus Seachem stability Plus floaters from my well established planted tank. 

@Jaysan would you happen to know where to get a TDS tester?


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

Hang in there. 

To cheer you up, female shrimps with missing eye actually breed better. THis is because shrimp has an organ in the eye stem that release hormone that suppresses the breeding hormone.

Although in your case it is likely caused by different issues, likely stressed shrimps that can't deal with new bacteria in your new tank (missing eyes, missing/broken antenna/legs are often a sign of bacteria infection).

Use this as a learning experience, in the end, all will be good.


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## xriddler (Feb 16, 2012)

because of work i can't head anywhere to pick up the shrimp necessities until my days off on monday or tuesdays but while my grandparents were at the grocers i told them to pick up some Kale and organic spinach for my shrimp. i took hot water rinsed the kale and microwaved the kale piece in hot water for 1min. is that long enough for the shrimps to munch on? How long does it take for shrimp to get interested in new foods? cause they all don't seem like they want this yummy snack


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## xriddler (Feb 16, 2012)

just a little update. The 7 remaining PFRs is still hanging in there after i awoke this morning. I have yet to see them eat and they seem to be perched on the rocks a lot. I will attempt to feed them boiled spinach once i get home from work today. Is there a go to food to condition my shrimps to start eating veggies?

As for a TDS tester are there any recommendations of which one to get?

http://www.bigalspets.ca/handheld-tds-temp-meter-with-vinyl-case.html
http://www.bigalspets.ca/dual-inline-tds-meter.html

the milwaukee is 300 dollars so that is out of my budget. If there are more reasonably priced ones please do point me to the right direction


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## manmadecorals (Jan 17, 2012)

I bought mine at Home Depot for like...$15 

Not sure if they are still available though...


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## xriddler (Feb 16, 2012)

Manthu can you take a picture for me or give me a product name. That would greatly help me thank you.


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## manmadecorals (Jan 17, 2012)

Here is a picture of it. Although they are no longer sold, But you can try the chinese version purchased here


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

If you haven't bought a TDS pen, it might be worth it to get one with temperature adjustment. No big difference as the water you test will be in a small range of temperature, but the price is about the same and it doesn't hurt.


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## xriddler (Feb 16, 2012)

any recommendations on where to get one randy?


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## xriddler (Feb 16, 2012)

awww i knew it i just got home from work and have another dead PFR with same symptoms. I wont be free until this monday and it turns out to be a holiday D:


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## Jaysan (Dec 19, 2011)

Hey,
I got my tds from home depot like Manhtu.

I wonder what could be causing your shrimps to die off one by one.

How long did you let this tank cycle for?


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## xriddler (Feb 16, 2012)

i cycled the tank in about 7 days. i used all the media of an aq20 from existing tank and i used seachem stability plus frogbits and white clouds from my exisiting tank to add ammonia. everything leveled out it 7 days. 0 ammo 0 nitrite and 10 nitrate. i did do a few water changes to bring the nitrate down to 5ppm at the moment. i removed the white clouds the day i got the shrimp so its fishless since day one of adding shrimps. maybe dripping the shrimps for 2 hrs was not long enough because they were adult shrimps? maybe i should of dripped for like 8 hours as some articles suggested?


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## Ron (May 15, 2011)

Sorry for your losses. Adult shrimp don't acclimatize very well, I see people always so happy that they got large shrimp but I prefer juvis in cases I can't match the water they came from. 

Good luck with the remaining PFRs.


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## Jaysan (Dec 19, 2011)

If they were adult shrimps, I usually acclimate them longer. Dripping overnight is what I do if their adults. Sometimes when I'm moving my adults from tank to tank, I do overnight drips too even though my water parameters are pretty much similar, lol


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## xriddler (Feb 16, 2012)

Yes they are adult PFRs. But the two retailers that i frequent only have adult pfrs. But live and learn i will definitely acclimate them overnight from now on.


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## xriddler (Feb 16, 2012)

So on the same day i purchased my PFRs i also bought two juvie tigers. and tonight even though i lost more pfrs which saddens me but glad that i have found an exoskeleton of a juvie tiger shrimp. I heard they are even more sensitive but i am so glad at least one of them successfully molted. I heard that if they had calcium or some defencies they would run and munch on the exoskeleton nonstop but none of them seem to be interested. i have also found some larger exoskeletons (2 to be exact) but i do not know if they were from my three sunkist shrimp (i think they are as the exo is more elongated than the PFR) that i placed in this tank or from the remaining few PFR in my tank 

i am crossing my finger that my other tiger will successfully molt. Please pray with me >_<


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## xriddler (Feb 16, 2012)

Since sunday i am left with 3 pfrs, 2 juvie tigers (from day 1) and 3 sunkist shrimp (from my old tank). Today i took a look at one of my pfrs and it looked weird. it was curling itself up really ball like and i could see the section where his head carapace and body carapace exposed during that move. hope that its not a sign of stress. 

just a FTS of my very bare tank atm.


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## coldmantis (Apr 5, 2010)

xriddler said:


> Since sunday i am left with 3 pfrs, 2 juvie tigers (from day 1) and 3 sunkist shrimp (from my old tank). Today i took a look at one of my pfrs and it looked weird. it was curling itself up really ball like and i could see the section where his head carapace and body carapace exposed during that move. hope that its not a sign of stress.
> 
> just a FTS of my very bare tank atm.


These are neos we are talking about, you can just dump them in and they should be fine Adults and Julvies (as long as the tank is fully cycled of course). I think I might know what is causing your death. What kind of substrate is that? and where did you get it, I hope it's Super Naturals Tahitian Moon from big als and not black beauty blasting sand from somewhere else.


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## xriddler (Feb 16, 2012)

It is big als super Tahitian moon sand. The tank is fully cycled.


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## coldmantis (Apr 5, 2010)

xriddler said:


> It is big als super Tahitian moon sand. The tank is fully cycled.


hmm dunno then, my PFR were from 2 sources Frank before he close up his store and John at PJ Pets at STC. I been keeping these for at least 2 years + and they were in Moon Sand then bare bottom and now Fluval Shrimp Stratnum. I always had issues with my nitrate it's always above 40, I had never had a death until my heater failed and never turned off and cooked a whole bunch of them. I also have to mention that I change water maybe twice a year, the rest are just top ups. I'm using those ai mini hang on back canister filters on them.


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## xriddler (Feb 16, 2012)

yea coldmantis to my understanding they were very plug and play from forums. some people even left them in buckets and they still reproduced and grew. But i guess over the years of breeding? they became more sensitive? I chose Pfrs cause i thought they would be good next step up from the cheap cherries i got for my community tank.

Hope i didnt offend anyone cause when i meant cheap i meant they were 50 cents each and not that the species was cheap.


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## xriddler (Feb 16, 2012)

so far the 3 pfrs are holding up as i woke up this morning hopefully they will be fine. The tigers are still swimming up and down along with the sunkist.


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## xriddler (Feb 16, 2012)

Just a quick question as i dont cull my cherries in my community tank. 

What size should i start culling pfrs? if i can see the saddle does that mean i should cull them? Though i really wont be culling them i will be placing the pfr culls in my community tank with my cherries to liven up those in there.


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

If you have a community tank then you can start early, around 8mm or eve smaller. Any horrible looking male should be culled, and you can be a bit more forgiving on the female as they normally colour up after a berry or two. Do NOT miss a single bad male as it will cause you to cull even more if it mates with multiple female. If the culled males turn more colourful then you can always move them back to the breeding tank. After a while you'll have enough good male and things will be easier.


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## xriddler (Feb 16, 2012)

since i cant really tell the difference with pfrs besides the saddle which is hard to see how can i sex a male from female? From what i read good pfr males look very red as well. from what i can tell all the pfrs i have, have a pretty round belly.


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

Once reach about 1.2cm it should be obvious. Females should start to show saddle and males will be relatively less colourful. If you find some good coloured one but no saddle, those might be the keepers (i.e. nice males).


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## ScarletFire (Nov 4, 2012)

There's actually a cheaper TDS pen than $11. I bought mine for ~$7 on Ebay. It's shipped from HK. I compared the pH and temperature with a TDS pen bought from Big Al's, and the TDS is off by only 20 ppm, and the temperature is spot on. By the way, the one on Ebay and Big Al's looks the same.


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## manmadecorals (Jan 17, 2012)

I am having the same problem as you xriddler. About a week ago, i received a shipment for 100 painted fire reds. No DOA, when i took them home i acclimated them for 4.5 hours before putting them in my tank and no death during the acclimatization. Once i put in all 100 PFR into my 17gal they started to die. After a week, i believe i lost about 10 to 15 PFR. Just yesterday i did a 10% water change using a drip bucket. After my water change was done, 2 more PFR died.

My water parameters are 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, between 5-10 nitrate, ph 7.0, TDS 250

I have mineral rocks in the tank since day 1...for some reason these shrimps seem sooooo much more sensitive than CRS.

I have 100 CRS in my 10gal with the same water parameter. I only had 1 death since i got them and that was due to a lack of care on my part when transferring them into my 10gal tank.


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