# Help to understand my mistake



## 50seven (Feb 14, 2010)

OK, due to completely running out of salt and not getting around to buying any, on Tuesday I finally got around to doing a water change after about 3-4 weeks 

I did a 20%, which I think now was too much, as my pH had dropped to around 8.0 before the WC, I and the next morning after the WC it was back to 8.3- which I though was good. Until my angelfish died yesterday morning. Now this morning my fire goby went belly up.

As I understand on the chemistry end of things, it is possible for the effects of pHshock to last this long, but in real life does it actually play out this way?

Basically I want to know if my delayed, then over-zealous WC is what is killing my fish. All other water parameters are good - 0 Ammonia /nitrites, etc.


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## Big Ray (Dec 8, 2009)

Sorry about the loss, but doubt its the PH by itself.

have you checked the salinity, temp, KH, MG, CA of the new saltwater ? 

an example would be, during the 3 weeks your KH and CA dropped alot, they got replenished, shocking PH and ... causing percipitation and eventually weakening the fish and ...

or perhaps something in the salt mix container or water, salt mix wasnt mixed fully, or .... how long did you mix it for ? 

delay in WC, will build up toxins in water and also raise in N and P, which make the fish weaker, and a weak fish can be killed by any small shock ...

20% is not alot though, I have done 30% on my SPS reef and no negative effect. (but I spent 1 full day testing the new water to be sure)


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## 50seven (Feb 14, 2010)

I feel worse because it was completely avoidable.

I assume correctly then that it can take a couple of days for the fish to show signs of distress? I hope nobody else kicks the bucket...

Yeah, I think I was too hasty in making up my mix as I just wanted to get the new water in there. Maybe one day the school of hard knocks will send me my diploma...


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## vladfragdit (Aug 7, 2009)

Did you let your new water 'cure' prior to doing a water change? New RO/DI water is very active and can cause lots of harm to fish and corals.


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## Big Ray (Dec 8, 2009)

vladfragdit said:


> Did you let your new water 'cure' prior to doing a water change? New RO/DI water is very active and can cause lots of harm to fish and corals.


what does Cure and active mean ?

RO/DI water is H20 with no impurities. at PH 7.0. its not active.

the reason why you read on the net ppl saying mix your new salt water mix for 24 hours is simply to allow enough GAS EXCHANGE so that O2 and CO2 can regulate themselves to correct PH. which can be achieved with using higher flow in the mixing container, with big enough pump, you can make the mix in 30 mins. no "CURE" time needed.


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Big Ray said:


> what does active mean ?


+2

Cure can refer to letting things gass off, and the pH of the new salt water come to equillibrium and stabilizing before you add it into your tank. Also, like BR said, gaseous exchange is an issue too - you want fully oxygenated water.

One other thing can be to allow full disollution - even if you're using a big pump, it can take a while for everything to completely dissolve - given a few hours (I prefer at least overnight) everything has the chance to dissolve and so won't irritate things (corals, fish, etc) when added into the tank.

Ca, Mg, KH won't usually affect fish.


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## Kweli (Jun 2, 2010)

Ive been using fresh RO/DI for top-off... im talking.. so fresh its still cold (although it doesnt go into tank cold, as topoff isnt used immediatly)


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

That shouldn't be a problem - the amount you're adding won't have a significant effect, so long as it's not like you're topping off 10 gallons at a time. However, of you replace 10% of the system with oxygen-depleted, low pH, sediment containing (the undissoved stuff), it will cause problems.


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## 50seven (Feb 14, 2010)

ameekplec. said:


> +2
> 
> Cure can refer to letting things gass off, and the pH of the new salt water come to equillibrium and stabilizing before you add it into your tank. Also, like BR said, gaseous exchange is an issue too - you want fully oxygenated water.
> 
> ...


Do you mean that I should put an air stone in my water overnight after I've added salt and before I add it to the tank? I've never done that before.

I have always just added salt + stirred it well and let it sit for about half an hour and then siphon it into the sump using a drip siphon (takes about 45 minutes to an hour to empty a 4- gallon bucket into the tank.)

of course I didn't do it that way this time - I just dumped it all in.


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## Big Ray (Dec 8, 2009)

50seven said:


> Do you mean that I should put an air stone in my water overnight after I've added salt and before I add it to the tank? I've never done that before.
> 
> I have always just added salt + stirred it well and let it sit for about half an hour and then siphon it into the sump using a drip siphon (takes about 45 minutes to an hour to empty a 4- gallon bucket into the tank.)
> 
> of course I didn't do it that way this time - I just dumped it all in.


keep it circulating over night, using a power head, or even an air stone.
I use a big power head, with an air line stuck to its intake, and the end of the line above the water level, that way the power head pushes air into the mix, while mixing it more. (it looks like skimmer lol) surface agitation = gas exchange.

if you are using RC (reef crystal) salts, due to vitamins that it contains, you should have it circulating all the time before use, as if you let it sit steal the vitamins MAY degrade the water.


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## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

At times it's tough to remember all the "finer details" that one needs to do. It happened to us last week on our clients' 14gal BioCube, rather I goofed by not paying attention and ended up siphoning out ~50%. I added water and salt to the already prepared NSW. So don't feel so bad .

In our line of work, it's not feasible for our clients to "age"/condition NSW, so there is the next best "trick"...aerate the heck of the newly mixed SW for a few minutes. 

We use 30gal RubberMaid Brute trash cans and a Mag12/18 pump with a hose attached. Using this method for so long, we know how much salt to add for full and 1/2 bucket NSW as well as the same brand of salt for every client. Once the salt has dissolved, water clarified and salinity in check, we put in the pump/hose and fizz the heck out of it with a finger/thumb on the end of the hose. After a few minutes, put on the gravel attachment end so it doesn't fly out and soak the place (HA, yes, I've done it too) and let the water clarify once again before pumping it in.

Never had a problem when it when we had to do 50% water changes...knock on wood...


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## 50seven (Feb 14, 2010)

Wow, that makes me feel better. 

Maybe I should rename this thread "SW water changes for noobs" 

Sent from my HTC Magic using Tapatalk


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