# Stocking Cardinal tetras and ?hatchetfish?



## Unnr (May 8, 2010)

I have a 10 gal lightly planted tank.

I would like to have 6-8 Cardinal tetras, (only 4 so far), some cherry shrimp (maybe 6ish), and I'm wondering if it's reasonable to add dwarf hatchetfish. 

Going by the inch rule, that would be about 7.5" of Cardinals (for 6). It seems like the shrimp don't count quite the same, since they say you can have quite a lot in a 10gal tank, should I be counting 6 as being about 1 inch of fish? (that's based on the numbers I've seen for just shrimp alone in a 10 gal tank)

That only leaves room for one and a half dwarf hatchetfish... could I get away with two, and would they be happy with only two of them? Would the tetras, shrimp, and hatchetfish get along ok?

Also, do hatchetfish need extra room between the top of the water and the top of the tank? I have about 1.5" right now.

If Hatchetfish aren't an option, I'm just going to get 8 tetras, so I'm trying to decide sooner rather than later, since the 4 tetras are already a bit lonely 

Thanks!
-Unnr


----------



## mointhehouse128 (Feb 7, 2009)

Well, what are the dimensions of you 10gal tank?

What kinds of plants do you have? and how many of each?

Shrimp depend...you can have 1 per gallon or up to 100 per gallon.


----------



## Unnr (May 8, 2010)

20x10x12, 
I need to figure out what plants I have, I have 3 Hydrophillas, that much I rememeber, and those are doing really well, and I will prob. have more soon, since I need to split one of them. I have a little stand of medium sized things that look a bit like evergreens, some tiny floaty thingies, and a leafy thing.

Erm... I will go take a picture 

Sorry, the pics aren't awesome, my good camera won't take my good macro lenses (grumble). Hope they're enough to give an idea.


----------



## WiyRay (Jan 11, 2009)

If you keep up regularly with water changes...
Add a lot more plants than what I see in those pics...
Don't know what kind of filter you have, but get yourself something better. Something that has a much higher tank size rating. A 2213 would be more than ideal...

Then you can laugh at the fact that you're only housing 15" of fish in a 10g.


----------



## mointhehouse128 (Feb 7, 2009)

Get lots of plants, and some shrimp, get a good filter, and make a DIY CO2 system to make your plants pearl, and your fish to enjoy themselves.

Then worry about fish, but it would be fine with 8 cardinal tetras.


----------



## Unnr (May 8, 2010)

How encouragingly discouraging 

I will get two more tetras, work on plants and shrimp, and then maybe take a look at the CO2 stuff in a few months. 

I rather like the idea of lots and lots of plants, and of playing around with the CO2 stuff. But that doesn't necesarily mean I should actually *do* it.

-Unnr


----------



## Unnr (May 8, 2010)

How encouragingly discouraging 

I will get two more tetras, work on plants and shrimp, and then maybe take a look at the CO2 stuff in a few months. 

I rather like the idea of lots and lots of plants, and of playing around with the CO2 stuff. But that doesn't necesarily mean I should actually *do* it.

-Unnr


----------



## mointhehouse128 (Feb 7, 2009)

Unnr said:


> How encouragingly discouraging
> 
> I will get two more tetras, work on plants and shrimp, and then maybe take a look at the CO2 stuff in a few months.
> 
> ...


Right now I'm in that process with my 25 gal tank, I'm gonna buy tons of plants once I get my new T5 HO light, then use DIY CO2, then get tons of red crystal and cherry shrimp. And work from there.


----------



## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

10 Gallons is highly un-recommended as a Cardinal Tetra tank. Cardinals can reach 2.5" + eventually, and prefer having a much larger amount of space.
Did you cycle this tank? That cardinal looks very pale.


----------



## Cypher (Apr 15, 2006)

You may also want to think about changing your substrate. Tahitian moon sand is less than ideal for plants. If you like black substrate, I think they now sell black flourite as well. For freshwater, heavy plant load usually allows for slightly more small fish load.


----------



## Unnr (May 8, 2010)

Yeah, the Cardinals are not currently as happy as I'd like, the PH is a bit high for them, and the school is too small... But the paleness in the pics is also partly the colour ballance being off, so they aren't completely missing the red stripe like it looks in the pics. The tank appeared to cycle fine, and the water parameters seem good. I am sometimes getting a nitrite reading that is not quite 0, but isn't anywhere near the .25ppm colour chip, but other times the nitrite comes up at 0, Amonia 0, Nitrate <5ppm. I used filter media from an established tank.

are you sure you don't mean 2.5 cm? I've seen that as the adult size for cardinals, and if they did get to 2.5 inches, I suspect I'd see a lot less reef tanks in museums.

I will look into black flourite. I'm also wondering about adding peat to help bring the PH closer to 6.8, but that's probably a question for another thread -- especially since I just read on another thread that I have to worry about what kinds of acids are making up the PH and stuff.

We will be moving soon (got the fish, and then had a house fall in our lap, a little awkward, but what can you do), so any changes to the substrate are going to have to happen then I think, but I'm assuming I'd want to keep a fair bit of the current stuff. yeah, need a new thread.

Merci buckets.

-Unnr


----------



## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

You have to stop the pH worrying =D

Cardinals love to school, and love to swim, so a 10g tank is less than ideal for them. Female cardinals can reach up to 2.5 inches like AquariAM mentions.


----------



## Unnr (May 8, 2010)

Chris S said:


> You have to stop the pH worrying =D


But... but... but... really? I can try, but it'll take me a while.



Chris S said:


> Cardinals love to school, and love to swim, so a 10g tank is less than ideal for them. Female cardinals can reach up to 2.5 inches like AquariAM mentions.


Hmm. That changes some of my thinking. Why don't I see more of these critters? a school with 2.5 inch cardinals has got to be awesome...

How much less than ideal? is my first question... Is it a disaster waiting to happen, or just not great?

How likely is it for them to get that big? Is it an occaisional thing, or an every happy female will get that big? How long does it take them to get that big? If I'm right that I have 3 females already, that really does sound like a lot of fish if I get 8 total.

Now I'm a little annoyed, I actually planned to get neons, but was told that cardinals would be fine, and would get to about an inch and a quarter. And I really was impressed by the way they look. I don't think they were around when my dad set up a fishtank for me when I was a kid.

eek.

-Unnr


----------



## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

Unnr said:


> But... but... but... really? I can try, but it'll take me a while.
> 
> Hmm. That changes some of my thinking. Why don't I see more of these critters? a school with 2.5 inch cardinals has got to be awesome...
> 
> ...


Neons get about the same size, I find they tend to stay slightly smaller though.

It isn't horrible I guess, but the real beauty of fish like cardinals is watching them school in large numbers, in large tanks. You won't ever really see their natural behaviour in a 10g tank, but it doesn't mean they are going to die.


----------



## Unnr (May 8, 2010)

Ok, let's try this a different way.

What size tank would be good (not the size of the whole stream the fish came from, but not the bare minimum), for 8 Cardinal tetras, 8 dwarf hatchetfish, a snail, and a buncha cherry shrimp? (I have more cherries left than I thought, apparently they were molting.)

(and maybe co2 and a big buncha plants, and a high-light vs low-light area.)

[Yes, I've had a fishtank for a month, and I'm thinking of upsizing. Oops. But I guess I'll have a backup/quarantene/place for extra plants or maybe shrimp fry or something.]

-Unnr


----------



## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

I'd say a 40g tank, with a larger school of cardinals would be better!

But to answer your more direct question, a 20g tank should be ok.


----------



## Unnr (May 8, 2010)

Ok, the dust has settled, and I'm I'mpicking up a 35 gal tomorrow 

And I put in some pygme chain sword (grassy), and man do the criters like it 
(and 2 more Cardinals, so up to 6)

Thanks so much!

-Unnr


----------



## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

Unnr said:


> Yeah, the Cardinals are not currently as happy as I'd like, the PH is a bit high for them, and the school is too small... But the paleness in the pics is also partly the colour ballance being off, so they aren't completely missing the red stripe like it looks in the pics. The tank appeared to cycle fine, and the water parameters seem good. I am sometimes getting a nitrite reading that is not quite 0, but isn't anywhere near the .25ppm colour chip, but other times the nitrite comes up at 0, Amonia 0, Nitrate <5ppm. I used filter media from an established tank.
> 
> are you sure you don't mean 2.5 cm? I've seen that as the adult size for cardinals, and if they did get to 2.5 inches, I suspect I'd see a lot less reef tanks in museums.
> 
> ...


As Chris said pristine water quality and careful parenting are better than just the correct pH.

Yes. 2.5 INCH. It takes almost two years to hit that but if kept in a large tank (ie, they will stunt in a 10G, further reason to avoid them) they will hit 2.5" I have seen some that could be considered 3" and overall approximately 10x the mass of your average purchase size cardinal.

Big Als Scarboro had a 15 year old planted tank with very old very huge cardinal tetras. Sadly someone spilled sprite in it around 2005.

If you do get a 35G that should be more than ample for the cardinals, if well cared for, to eventually hit their max size.


----------



## Unnr (May 8, 2010)

They're going to be stuck in the 10 gal for another 6 weeks, but then they'll get a bit more space. Stunted fish=bad. Hopefully that won't start just yet . They're a little over an inch now, most of them.

-Unnr


----------



## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

Unnr said:


> They're going to be stuck in the 10 gal for another 6 weeks, but then they'll get a bit more space. Stunted fish=bad. Hopefully that won't start just yet . They're a little over an inch now, most of them.
> 
> -Unnr


Should be fine. Make sure to overseed the 35 if you'll be moving them to it new. Take YOUR filter media and at least one other persons so there are no spikes. Something in the area of 15-20 cardinals with maybe a bushynose pleco or something like that would look nice. Maybe a centerpiece fish of some sort too like a pair of pearl gouramis. I'd likely go with 15 if I were going to do this tank so there would be enough space to accomodate the other fish comfortably and assuming everything @ max size, still wouldnt be a high bioload.

You should check out youtube videos of neons and cardinals in the wild. They dont live where youd expect. Mostly big thickets of reeds and plants coated in algae in relatively shallow water. There are lots of ways to make them comfortable and a perfect planted tank with all the headaches and hair loss involved isn't the only one. They do require frequent water changes. Hate changes in water chemistry, handle stress extremely poorly, suffer a host of issues if overfed, and are physically fragile, but its worth it if you can do it.


----------

