# Chasing a Dream in Toronto



## bioload

While sitting in the office the other day looking at my current 75 gallon in process, I thought to myself, I've been in this hobby for quite some time and still nowhere near having that "dream tank" I envisioned when I first started out.

I can think of many reasons for not getting there, but in the end it came down to too many pursuits getting in the way. After all, it's not how many things you're working on, it's how many of them you complete. Each extra or an additional goal to further splits your available resources.

The first factor in setting up my tank, and one of the reasons I never really got started was cost. This hobby can siphon funds really quick, but it's not necessarily how much you spend, but what you spend it on, and when. For example, my 75 gallon is at the point where I'm finally comfortable managing parameters and general maintenance to start adding corals. The filtration, lighting and flow are all great for now, but it is not the tank I've envisioned.

Factoring the amount of $$$ that has gone into this tank which may ultimately be shut down, and others along the way, I would have been well on my way to completing my "dream tank"

Though setting up a reef tank is not my "sole priority and focus" in the grand scheme of things, I have been distracted by other "hobbies", and different aspects of this one which take my attention away from my goal. That being said I've decided to stop work on the 75 gallon and begin planning towards my "sole priority and focus" as far as hobbies go.

My Inspiration:
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2009-03/totm/index.php
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-12/totm/index.php
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1535215
http://www.oregonreef.com/sub_circulation.htm
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1599945
......and of course.
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1640915
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1827226
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1811725

Although my tank will be modest in scale to some of my inspiration, I hope I can achieve the same quality and attention to detail that has been demonstrated......so let's get started.

My vision is a main floor ~224 gallon 4 sided view with a dedicated fish room directly below the tank. Here are a few rough sketches to begin.....cost will be a factor so it's going to be a long road.




























I've posted this tread on RC, but thought I could start up a "local" discussion as well. Going to need all the help I can get.


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## wtac

4-sided displays pose quite the problem with the centre stack overflows with aquascaping. You really need the footprint to create the gradual slope for the typical rock stacking or create islands w/cement work and LR.

For SPS systems that I see that you might be leaning towards, I forsee cement work w/LR in the future . A handy person like yourself can save big ALOT of $$$ compared to the cost of contracting it out.

What dimensions are you considering for the aquarium?

Sounds like it's going to be a fun project


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## explor3r

This is going to be a great proyect knowing how handy you are, whats your plan with the 75 you have currently now...


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## bioload

wtac said:


> 4-sided displays pose quite the problem with the centre stack overflows with aquascaping. You really need the footprint to create the gradual slope for the typical rock stacking or create islands w/cement work and LR.
> 
> For SPS systems that I see that you might be leaning towards, I forsee cement work w/LR in the future . A handy person like yourself can save big ALOT of $$$ compared to the cost of contracting it out.
> 
> What dimensions are you considering for the aquarium?
> 
> Sounds like it's going to be a fun project


Thanks...incorporating the overflow is a concern and I'm leaning towards a single overflow at the moment instead of the two I had originally planned. So much easier to change things in sketch-up. Moving the old tank out was a breeze.










I'm really starting from scratch on this one hope to get as much input as possible, although some choices will be based on personal preference. The sketch is a 72"x30"x24" tall with two 6" x 6" or a single 12" x 6" overflow for perspective. There may be room for a 72"x36"x24 

The overflow will house the drains (size and number TBD) and the electrical for power heads and canopy if necessary (both TBD).

Sunil


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## bioload

explor3r said:


> This is going to be a great proyect knowing how handy you are, whats your plan with the 75 you have currently now...


Thank You,.....The 75 will continue to operate until it's time for the move, still undecided after that. The ban on livestock purchases will be painful, but I'll need to maintain focus to help me through the withdrawal.


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## J-P

I am sure you could do something nice with the aquascape. I'm not a fan of the "fruit stand" type displays where all the LR is at the back and cascaded towards the front .


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## sig

*"After all, it's not how many things you're working on, it's how many of them you complete" *
this was good one

I feel now uncomfortable asking to drill a hole in my future 50G

Good luck. It is going to be someting 

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## 50seven

bioload said:


> My Inspiration:
> http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2009-03/totm/index.php
> http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-12/totm/index.php
> http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1535215
> http://www.oregonreef.com/sub_circulation.htm
> http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1599945
> ......and of course.
> http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1640915
> http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1827226
> http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1811725


I am still reading through your inspiration list and picking up my jaw off the floor every now and then....


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## wtac

If you can swing a 36" width and no higher than the 24"H, you will thank your lucky stars you did. When I'm up next to my client (BA revamp) with the same aquarium design as yours, I'll take some pics of some aquascaping issues you may encounter. There are many things to make the system better but BA has stung him pretty good and redoing that plumbing nightmare was quite the feat with the limited space underneath.


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## KaylaBot

I'm excited to see the progress of this project.


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## bioload

J-P said:


> I am sure you could do something nice with the aquascape. I'm not a fan of the "fruit stand" type displays where all the LR is at the back and cascaded towards the front .


I hope so JP. I prefer a "minimalistic" aquascape, and find that attempting to get the "recommended" lbs/gal of live rock into a system often reduces circulation which can be counterproductive.


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## bioload

sig said:


> *"After all, it's not how many things you're working on, it's how many of them you complete" *
> this was good one
> 
> I feel now uncomfortable asking to drill a hole in my future 50G
> 
> Good luck. It is going to be someting


Not a problem, between the family, work, websites, fabrication and a ton of other "hobbies" I found that there wasn't enough time to devote to doing all well, and lost sight of why I got into this hobby in the first place.

Let me know whenever you're ready.....not too much trouble at all, and always glad to help out.


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## bioload

50seven said:


> I am still reading through your inspiration list and picking up my jaw off the floor every now and then....


Impressive Indeed.....dedication and focus.


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## bioload

wtac said:


> If you can swing a 36" width and no higher than the 24"H, you will thank your lucky stars you did. When I'm up next to my client (BA revamp) with the same aquarium design as yours, I'll take some pics of some aquascaping issues you may encounter. There are many things to make the system better but BA has stung him pretty good and redoing that plumbing nightmare was quite the feat with the limited space underneath.


Looking more and more like a 72x36x24. I've been in contact with a few people getting initial quotes, and waiting to hear back from Miracles at the moment. Stay tuned.

It would be great to see some pics if possible, any help I can get is appreciated. Starting over would not be in the budget for a tank this size, so we'll be in the planning stages for some time. Since cost is a factor for me, I plan on FOWLR first approach and expanding from there.


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## bioload

KaylaBot said:


> I'm excited to see the progress of this project.


Thanks Kayla, Me too....
Sunil


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## bioload

*More Planning*

Of course all plans will need to be finalized with my project manager. Here are a few sketches that I submitted for her approval tonight.





































It's been a long day, so please excuse the floating couch in the background.


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## sig

your "project manager" does not look happy on these images 

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## wtac

With a room like that and proposed locations, you will run into a few issues:

Layout 1 (pic 1 and 2)

It will keep the room depth (visually) but you have to consider if one will really go to the far side to view that side often.

Layout 2 (pic 3 and 4)

Great as a divider for two different purposes for the overall space but you have to consider the maintenance/service of the aquarium with the nearby furnishings. The sitting area of the far side will be nice and cozy and will be enhanced with a table/storage unit/bench on the far wall. The down side is that visually, it will make the space visually and feel small.

You will have to consider the lighting system and hanging from the ceiling will further make that visual/psychological barrier. One also has to consider light spill from the lighting system from a seated position of both sides as well as support of the floor underneath.

Personally I prefer layout #2 and you have to delve into your own personal and household "habits", ie. "lifestyle". I don't mean what have asked as negative but it is another critical factor that goes into the equation for the required access, time and spatial requirements to work on the DT and overall enjoyment of building such a system in your home.

Build a mock-up using 1"x2" for the overall size to get a better feel of what it would be like.

JM2C/HTH


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## bioload

wtac said:


> With a room like that and proposed locations, you will run into a few issues:
> 
> Layout 1 (pic 1 and 2)
> 
> It will keep the room depth (visually) but you have to consider if one will really go to the far side to view that side often.
> 
> Layout 2 (pic 3 and 4)
> 
> Great as a divider for two different purposes for the overall space but you have to consider the maintenance/service of the aquarium with the nearby furnishings. The sitting area of the far side will be nice and cozy and will be enhanced with a table/storage unit/bench on the far wall. The down side is that visually, it will make the space visually and feel small.
> 
> You will have to consider the lighting system and hanging from the ceiling will further make that visual/psychological barrier. One also has to consider light spill from the lighting system from a seated position of both sides as well as support of the floor underneath.
> 
> Personally I prefer layout #2 and you have to delve into your own personal and household "habits", ie. "lifestyle". I don't mean what have asked as negative but it is another critical factor that goes into the equation for the required access, time and spatial requirements to work on the DT and overall enjoyment of building such a system in your home.
> 
> Build a mock-up using 1"x2" for the overall size to get a better feel of what it would be like.
> 
> JM2C/HTH


Nice!.....never thought of the 1"x2"

The room is conveniently a blank canvas at the moment (literally). It's that room some may remember as a child not being allowed to play in, only used for Christmas and Thanksgiving dinners, with the ornate seating preserved in plastic wrap, or was that only me? Well that's about to change! I enjoy finally building a tank where the remainder of the space can be designed to accommodate it's footprint. Any and all ideas are welcomed, but my wife (The Boss) has the final say.

The first layout was my initial plan for the space with the tank being the focal point at the far end of the room. Structurally I favoured the location due to the fish room to be partitioned directly below. The partitioning wall below would be used to support the addition of two beams at one end, with the joist running parallel to the tank.

After seeing the design and the available space, I agree being at the end of the room will diminish the benefits of having a 4 sided tank. The remainder of the space seems to be lacking identity as well with the primary dining room and living room side by side. It would either need to be a large formal dining room, or a living room, definitely not both.

I'm also liking the second layout more as well. In addition to supporting the tank's weight, there will be added distance to the fish room. With plans on finishing the basement, I'm not willing to add any support columns right in the middle of the basement. I'll have to find some options on how to handle the weight load that will be sitting right in the center of a 12' span. I have some thoughts on this, but does anyone know of any practical and proven options?

You read my mind on the table/storage at the end  Most of the maintenance will be performed in the fish room downstairs, but I do share your concern regarding available floor space. The room is 12' wide and there is currently 3' on either side. I'm not too worried about traffic, but a cramped space is something I would like to avoid as well......downsize?


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## bioload

sig said:


> your "project manager" does not look happy on these images


.....she'll be better when she gets to go furniture shopping. I just need to get the green light on the tank.


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## wtac

Going shorter lengthwise w/5' won't save you much in the cost of the aquarium but will save you on lighting as you can use a 4' unit.

Other than a jack post in the basement, your only other option is to build a 4"x4" base to help spread out the load and to sister/double up (glue and screw) on the joist. I suggest that you consult w/a structural engineer. Keep in mind that doing so will decrease the space to work with b/w the joists to run the plumbing.

Though the bulk of the maintenance you can do in the basement, for 24"H, I am assuming that you will be doing a SSB which will require gravel vacuuming every now and then. That's where working space is important as when you are a bit rushed for time, moving this and that and putting it back will be a PITA. Doing this for a living and frequently under the gun w/time, I'm just sharing my experience in this matter .

If you are going to have hardwood floors, you have to consider how long you plan on living in the house. A real PITA, IMHO, to replace a length of board to cover the hole(s) and to get an even look, you may have to refinish the entire floor. So keep a few boards on hand and mark "DO NOT THROW OUT", just in case .

Finally, you have to seal up the hole afterwards to prevent the moisture from the filtration room underneath coming up. You want to prevent issues down the road w/expansion.

Just a few things to consider .

HTH


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## Chris S

bioload said:


> The room is 12' wide and there is currently 3' on either side. I'm not too worried about traffic, but a cramped space is something I would like to avoid as well......downsize?


Or think about sacrificing one end of the tank and butt it up against the wall. From there you can likely create a more natural (and gradual) rock incline towards the wall by moving the overflow to that end as well. Overall, the overflow box will look a lot less unsightly and will also have the positive of having no breaks in the view through the tank (aside from coral/rockwork/fish, etc.). Combine this with more room on one side, the tank will feel more like an island dividing the room than a barrier blocking the two sides from each other.

As with Wilson, I have some experience with similar looking tanks and my personal opinion is that while the idea is nice, the reality never ends up being either easy to maintain or as "nice" looking as one would assume.


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## ecoleshill

50seven said:


> I am still reading through your inspiration list and picking up my jaw off the floor every now and then....


Ditto!! The plumbing into the basement levels for some of these is very impressive.


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## bioload

wtac said:


> Going shorter lengthwise w/5' won't save you much in the cost of the aquarium but will save you on lighting as you can use a 4' unit.
> 
> Other than a jack post in the basement, your only other option is to build a 4"x4" base to help spread out the load and to sister/double up (glue and screw) on the joist. I suggest that you consult w/a structural engineer. Keep in mind that doing so will decrease the space to work with b/w the joists to run the plumbing.
> 
> Though the bulk of the maintenance you can do in the basement, for 24"H, I am assuming that you will be doing a SSB which will require gravel vacuuming every now and then. That's where working space is important as when you are a bit rushed for time, moving this and that and putting it back will be a PITA. Doing this for a living and frequently under the gun w/time, I'm just sharing my experience in this matter .
> 
> If you are going to have hardwood floors, you have to consider how long you plan on living in the house. A real PITA, IMHO, to replace a length of board to cover the hole(s) and to get an even look, you may have to refinish the entire floor. So keep a few boards on hand and mark "DO NOT THROW OUT", just in case .
> 
> Finally, you have to seal up the hole afterwards to prevent the moisture from the filtration room underneath coming up. You want to prevent issues down the road w/expansion.
> 
> Just a few things to consider .
> 
> HTH


After putting together an outline of the tank in the space we found that it is a bit cramped. Going 5' would be an option, but due to my plans for tangs I would really like the tank to be at least 6'.

The support plans will likely include a pair of I-beams that will span the 12' from foundation wall to foundation wall, but will seek some more advice on this before the plans are finalized. I'm thinking of placing the I beams between or replacing the existing floor joists.

Any structural engineers around??

I'll be installing the flooring once I get around to removing the carpeting from the room, and the boss finalizes the floor. I'll be sure to keep some extra boards in a safe spot as well. Humidity will be a concern and plans will include an exhaust fan in the fish room.

All great tips......Thanks!


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## bioload

Chris S said:


> Or think about sacrificing one end of the tank and butt it up against the wall. From there you can likely create a more natural (and gradual) rock incline towards the wall by moving the overflow to that end as well. Overall, the overflow box will look a lot less unsightly and will also have the positive of having no breaks in the view through the tank (aside from coral/rockwork/fish, etc.). Combine this with more room on one side, the tank will feel more like an island dividing the room than a barrier blocking the two sides from each other.
> 
> As with Wilson, I have some experience with similar looking tanks and my personal opinion is that while the idea is nice, the reality never ends up being either easy to maintain or as "nice" looking as one would assume.


This may be the first compromise that will be made in the build after seeing the outline of the tank on the floor. I'm a bit disappointed about possibly not having a 4 sided tank, but no use forcing a square peg into a round hole.

The only other options would be to make the tank shorter, or go back to the original plan of having the tank at the end of the room.

Someone may have the title of this thread

This would eliminate the need to aquascape the monolith in the center, and still have a lot of viewable linear feet. Once concern would be throwing flow across 6' of tank.


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## bioload

ecoleshill said:


> Ditto!! The plumbing into the basement levels for some of these is very impressive.


Welcome aboard. A lot of work ahead.


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## Chris S

bioload said:


> This would eliminate the need to aquascape the monolith in the center, and still have a lot of viewable linear feet. Once concern would be throwing flow across 6' of tank.


I'm not a huge fan of these, but you could run a closed loop flow system like the Oceans Motions (http://www.oceansmotions.com/store/...id=32&osCsid=520b02bbb354fde1f5ef765b89dbd5dc) which you can hide in some rockwork and plumb underneath.


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## wtac

bioload said:


> After putting together an outline of the tank in the space we found that it is a bit cramped. Going 5' would be an option, but due to my plans for tangs I would really like the tank to be at least 6'.


5' four sided will still be fine for tangs, Keep in mind they can swim in endless circles unless you want a pair of unicorn tangs .


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## Chris S

Unicorns could still do a 3-point turn though!


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## bioload

My Blue Tang can reverse and parallel park 

Spent the past couple weeks looking for estimates on tanks. Are there any acrylic tank manufacturers in the GTA that someone can recommend? All of the vendors that I’ve been in contact with are in the US.


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## ameekplec.

bioload said:


> So much easier to change things in sketch-up. Moving the old tank out was a breeze.


haha. If only.

I like the penninsula-style room divider tank - it'll certainly make aquascaping easier.

Looking forward to this build!


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## bioload

A Change in direction?.....and a few more sketches.


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## bioload




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## teemee

sweet! can't wait to see how it turns out!


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## Chris S

I like that design, placement wise, better.


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## J-P

bioload said:


>


Are there no windows on that for right hand wall? A trapezoid bow front would look sweet =) wall to wall of course


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## talon

*Story*

There is a story in the picture. A man build a big tank place in living room. A woman get mad, then moving out everything, just left a tank for a man.
A man is looking a tank and smile. Now he got more room to build a huge tank.
Just a JOKE.


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## J-P

LOL!! good eye.. I didn't catch that!

My wife specifically told me "no more tanks..."


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## solarz

talon said:


> There is a story in the picture. A man build a big tank place in living room. A woman get mad, then moving out everything, just left a tank for a man.
> A man is looking a tank and smile. Now he got more room to build a huge tank.
> Just a JOKE.


ROFL! That's what I thought too!


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## carmenh

+1, I'm with Chris on this, this placement imho looks more logical and will open things up and allow better traffic flow...
Tagging along 



Chris S said:


> I like that design, placement wise, better.


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## bioload

ameekplec. said:


> haha. If only.
> 
> I like the penninsula-style room divider tank - it'll certainly make aquascaping easier.
> 
> Looking forward to this build!


Me too...I'll be working on sketchup for the foreseeable future. Sketch as many times possible, measure twice, and cut once!


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## bioload

teemee said:


> sweet! can't wait to see how it turns out!


Thanks teemee, Welcome!


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## bioload

Chris S said:


> I like that design, placement wise, better.


I think this might be it Chris!


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## bioload

J-P said:


> Are there no windows on that for right hand wall? A trapezoid bow front would look sweet =) wall to wall of course


There are three windows at the front of the house JP, but I don't think the boss will let me block them. I would then have an excuse not to clean them


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## bioload

talon said:


> There is a story in the picture. A man build a big tank place in living room. A woman get mad, then moving out everything, just left a tank for a man.
> A man is looking a tank and smile. Now he got more room to build a huge tank.
> Just a JOKE.


I like That .........foreshadow .

Glad to have my wife on board with the build from the start. Seeing the space in the plans also helps the process along.


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## bioload

solarz said:


> ROFL! That's what I thought too!


+2  everyone I show gets a chuckle.


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## bioload

carmenh said:


> +1, I'm with Chris on this, this placement imho looks more logical and will open things up and allow better traffic flow...
> Tagging along


Welcome carmenh, This looks like it will be the final decision (for now) 270gal peninsula 3-sided Starphire.


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## bioload

*Still planning*

Supporting the weight of the tank may be a bit more challenging with an opening to my cold cellar in the basement below.

2 of the joist that will be supporting the weight of the tank are directly over the opening which will not allow for support directly on the foundation.

Still seeking advice on this one........














































At the moment there is a door framed with 2x4's at the opening providing additional support to the two joists.


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## Chris S

That size tank is "probably" ok there, but I am not an engineer.

It may be worth, for peace of mind only, to reinforce the end not flush with the supporting wall with a support beam. Along with that though, I don't know how old your house is, or how your floor (or subfloor) underneath is.

If you want to be 100% sure, I would get a structural engineer to come take look to ensure everything is A-ok.


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## talon

The tank across the joints will more security. Actually my 180g should be fine sit on 7 joints, but I still set a extra post support for security. The post is sit on a concrete stand and adjustable level.








I hope the links can give you some hints
http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article28.html
http://african-cichlid.com/Structure.htm


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## talon

*225g tank*

The tank may suit for you.
http://toronto.kijiji.ca/c-pets-acc...quarium-Equipment-for-sale-W0QQAdIdZ304417382


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## bioload

talon said:


> The tank may suit for you.
> http://toronto.kijiji.ca/c-pets-acc...quarium-Equipment-for-sale-W0QQAdIdZ304417382


Very nice tank!....looks like only 2 side starphire though. Tanks for the link


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## bioload

Some more plans for the proposed framing using LVL beams. Does anyone have the calculation to determine the maximum load for the plan proposed.

I've sent a few to our engineering department at work as well.....still waiting to hear back.


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## 50seven

Without directly supporting the other end of the tank like talon has done, your idea with the LVL's is probably the best bet. I would personally use a few more though. I suggest also putting one extra LVL beam on the beam on either side of the tank (where your body weight would be if you and half a dozen other people are standing around watching the tank- that could easily be another half-ton of weight!) 

Estimating a tank weight of nearly a ton, with the 6 LVL's and the 3 regular spruce 2x8's you have there, it's about 200 pounds of weight pushing down on each individual floor joist, which is nowhere capable of breaking it, but seems still to be almost a minimum. Either put a few more LVL's in there, or use 12" wide LVL's and have a bulkhead in the room below. Also make sure the LVL's get bolted through and through every 12". All that said, I'm only a lowly carpenter, and await to hear the engineer's recommendation...


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## talon

Estimate the tank might over 2.3 tons. What's LVL mean?


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## bioload

50seven said:


> Without directly supporting the other end of the tank like talon has done, your idea with the LVL's is probably the best bet. I would personally use a few more though. I suggest also putting one extra LVL beam on the beam on either side of the tank (where your body weight would be if you and half a dozen other people are standing around watching the tank- that could easily be another half-ton of weight!)
> 
> Estimating a tank weight of nearly a ton, with the 6 LVL's and the 3 regular spruce 2x8's you have there, it's about 200 pounds of weight pushing down on each individual floor joist, which is nowhere capable of breaking it, but seems still to be almost a minimum. Either put a few more LVL's in there, or use 12" wide LVL's and have a bulkhead in the room below. Also make sure the LVL's get bolted through and through every 12". All that said, I'm only a lowly carpenter, and await to hear the engineer's recommendation...


Hi 50, I've been told that it may be better replacing the joists with LVL altogether. Staying away from using materials with dissimilar properties. However, someone has also recommended a flitch plate system (steel plate between two LVL's bolted). I think support to the adjacent joists as suggested will also be better, and bracing between as well.

Still waiting for the engineers to donate some time


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## bioload

talon said:


> Estimate the tank might over 2.3 tons. What's LVL mean?


Here is a **** link on LVL's (Laminated Veneer Lumber)


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## 50seven

Apparently 3x LVL's laminated together with bolts every 12" has the equivalent load bearing capability of a steel H beam of the same height... In that case you might be safe. Good luck on picking the engineer's brains for free!


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## bioload

50seven said:


> Apparently 3x LVL's laminated together with bolts every 12" has the equivalent load bearing capability of a steel H beam of the same height... In that case you might be safe. Good luck on picking the engineer's brains for free!


No Such luck......The department at work does consultation with an external firm. I've contacted a few firms in the GTA and the first quote for drawings is for $150/hr with an estimated 5-6hrs

I downloaded some software that may help with the preliminary designs thanks to some assistance from my a few good folks over at:

http://www.construction-resource.com/ & http://www.diychatroom.com/

Software can be found here: http://www.ilevel.com/services/s_forte.aspx

I've been plugging in some "best guess" information and getting different results from the software.

Under flooring there are three options that can be selected, joist, flush beam, and drop beam. I'm inclined to chose joist??

Next is the deflection criteria Live Load, and Total Load which is set at 480 and 240 respectively.

Can anyone walk me through the data required? I know that this may seem a bit unorthodox, but I'm very interested to see what solution the software comes out with.










FWIW The following info is under the Deflection Criteria Help:


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## bioload

Just to walk through the software I've entered the L/800 into the live load field and proportionally increased the total load field from the original L/240 to the L/400. This information is populated in the "Member" tab.










*Spans and Supports: *










Not knowing what an "Out to Out" or "Custom Dimensions Locations" is, I selected a clear span of 12'. Under "Bearing Length" I've entered as 5.5" on each side supported on "Bottom" by a SPF stud wall. There are left and right overhang lengths of 3", however, there is 2" of bearing on the foundation wall as well. 
Not sure if I should enter this as a total bearing with no overhang length, but will leave as is for now.
I've added under the accessory "Blocking", however, there is also a 1.25" rim board (on site) that the software will not let me select when there is an overhang value entered. 
"Connecters" are greyed out.


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## bioload

*Loads:*










Occupancy Type: Not selectable with default value of "Residential - Living Areas (40LL)". I'm okay with the residential part but not to sure how or if the 40LL will effect the calculations.

Type: Options are Point (lb), Point (PLF), Uniform (PLF), Uniform (PSF), Tapered (PLF), and Tapered (PSF). I'll enter Uniform (PSF).

Full Length: Unchecked

Location: 10" to 6'


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## bioload

*Holes:*










None were added as I do not planning on drilling through any of the members. I would like to make any plumbing or electrical runs adjacent to an existing HVAC duct enclosed in a bulkhead.

*Location Analysis:*










Again, I'm not sure what the function of this tab is. The drawing above is an example of two location fields at 2' and 3', however, I will omit in this calculation.


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## bioload

*Floor Performance:*










User Specified TJ-Pro™ Rating: "Everyone has their own opinion of how a floor should feel when walked on. The TJ-Pro™ Rating system is designed to identify the products and other components that will contribute to your floor design. The TJ-Pro™ Rating system can evaluate factors that contribute to floor performance - materials, installation methods, even customer expectations - and develop relative performance ratings. Varying the components and developing a relative performance rating gives you options for enhancing the floor's performance. You can also compare the cost efficiency of various flooring options."

Any TJ-Pro™ Rating: Checked to not use TJ-Pro™ Rating as a design parameter. "This value is calculated by Forte™ software but will not be used to pass or fail a product."

Decking Type: Specify the type of decking/sheathing material to use:
19/32" Structurwood Edge® (20" Span Rating) 
23/32" Structurwood Edge® (24" Span Rating) 
19/32" Structurwood Edge Gold® (20" Span Rating) 
23/32" Structurwood Edge Gold® (24" Span Rating) 
7/8" Structurwood Edge Gold® (32" Span Rating) 
1 1/8" Structurwood Edge Gold® (48" Span Rating) 
19/32" Panels (20" Span Rating) 
23/32" Panels (24" Span Rating)

I selected what I guess to be the worst case scenario of the calculator; 19/32" Panels (20" Span Rating).

Remaining field have been left unchecked except for blocking between the floor joists. No strapping or ceiling below the floor at the moment.

*Products:*










This one seems straight forward


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## bioload

*Solution:*










I think I did something wrong? Going back and changing my products to include various depths










There were multiple solutions available. Some that failed and others that passed.



















Based on the software I can use 2(9 1/4" x 1 3/4") with 12" OC ???


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## 50seven

Why don't you just play it safe and save all this worry, and just use 3 steel H beams? They will be sufficient to carry at least twice that load, plus won't cost you any more than using all those LVL beams.


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## 50seven

bioload said:


> Based on the software I can use 2(9 1/4" x 1 3/4") with 12" OC ???


That's what it seems to say. If I look at the manufacturer specs, the 9 1/4" Microlam beam is almost twice as strong as the 7 1/4"!

http://www.dickslumber.com/lumber_wood/documents/Microllam.pdf

But if it were my house and I were to go without an engineer's stamp, I'd just go with the steel beams and sleep easy at night. It's really not that hard if the installer knows what they're doing...


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## sig

you guys are serious. I have nothing against engineering calculations, but is it possible to install one two metal supporting posts with the beam on them

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## 50seven

sig said:


> you guys are serious. I have nothing against engineering calculations, but is it possible to install one two metal supporting posts with the beam on them


He wants to avoid any obstructions in the room below, which means that the floor joists must be re-engineered to be able to bear the load on their own.

Sent from my HTC Magic using Tapatalk


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## bioload

50seven said:


> Why don't you just play it safe and save all this worry, and just use 3 steel H beams? They will be sufficient to carry at least twice that load, plus won't cost you any more than using all those LVL beams.


I guess its my OCD surfacing 

I-Beams are still an option. Does anyone know how much I-beams will cost, or suppliers in the area?

I've done some more searching online and found, 1-3/4 X 9-1/4" - 12' LVL BEAM - $41.89 http://www.chelsealumber.com/subs_materials/lumberpricing.asp

An excerpt from another thread on beams would be in the $400-$500 range



> A friend of mine and former boss had built three homes and quoted me a W200x27, which is an 8" beam at 18lbs per linear foot, that he sized for me out of the builing code book. I did not get a deflection value from him either but went ahead a priced out some beams that I may be interested in; these prices includ the beam at 18'long, primed with the red oxide, delivery,(supplier is local, 10km), and taxs: Canadian $
> 
> 8" beam W200x21.................................$431.94
> 8" beam W200x27.................................$507.84
> 10" beam W250x33.................................$583.74


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## bioload

50seven said:


> He wants to avoid any obstructions in the room below, which means that the floor joists must be re-engineered to be able to bear the load on their own.
> 
> Sent from my HTC Magic using Tapatalk


That's my problem Sig.

Placing adjustable steel columns will interfere with plans for the basement below. I've also read that the columns would also require footings to be poured in order to support the weight "properly".


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## 50seven

bioload said:


> I guess its my OCD surfacing
> 
> I-Beams are still an option. Does anyone know how much I-beams will cost, or suppliers in the area?
> 
> I've done some more searching online and found, 1-3/4 X 9-1/4" - 12' LVL BEAM - $41.89 http://www.chelsealumber.com/subs_materials/lumberpricing.asp
> 
> An excerpt from another thread on beams would be in the $400-$500 range


Let me get you a price...

BTW what is the thickness of your current floor joists? I'm assuming they're 2x8's.

Sent from my HTC Magic using Tapatalk


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## 50seven

My cost on a 12' I-beam, 8" by 21 lb. is $277 each. You'd need 3, total is $830 plus tax.

Gives you an idea on pricing.

Sent from my HTC Magic using Tapatalk


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## bioload

50seven said:


> Let me get you a price...
> 
> BTW what is the thickness of your current floor joists? I'm assuming they're 2x8's.
> 
> Sent from my HTC Magic using Tapatalk


Thanks for getting the quote on the I-Beam, I really appreciate the time folks take to help out where they can. With cost being a factor, it's helpful to know what my options are.


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## bioload

Below is an "Engineered" recommendation that I received today. Which has put some of my OCD concerns at ease for the time being. Still a ways out before I start though, but doing what I can in terms of research and questions up front.

Still unclear about the allowable deflection under a tank this large. Would a 1/8" deflection @ 6' cause any stress on the glass from one end to another?....would the use of rigid foam under the stand and tank prevent this?


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## 50seven

bioload said:


> Below is an "Engineered" recommendation that I received today. Which has put some of my OCD concerns at ease for the time being. Still a ways out before I start though, but doing what I can in terms of research and questions up front.
> 
> Still unclear about the allowable deflection under a tank this large. Would a 1/8" deflection @ 6' cause any stress on the glass from one end to another?....would the use of rigid foam under the stand and tank prevent this?


Sweet.

Don't worry about the deflection of 1/8", that's normal, and is for when the floor is in motion (someone jumping up and down, running, people walking around). Your tank will be sitting on a solidly built stand (I hope, LOL  ) so the tank itself will not undergo any deflection. The entire tank structure may go up and down if someone jumps up and down on the floor in front of it, and you'll see the water go up and down that 1/8" (probably unnoticeable if you have a wavemaker) but the tank and stand itself will not flex. 
Build the stand out of 2x6's to the basic design from Rocketengineer or whatever his name is on RC, and you'll be fine.

That's my 2 cents. I'd sleep good at night like that.


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## bioload

*Still planning*

My first draft of the system components/design.......all C&C's welcome.


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## sig

WOW. I think you should replace a house for this one 

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