# Ideas for larger frag tank (not too large)



## Marz (Mar 1, 2014)

I currently have a small 10g frag tank. I am finding it hard to add stuff, move it around etc. I hadn't thought about the room that would be lost with a HOB Refugium and skimmer....so been thinking about a 20g long as the dimensions for width and height are perfect. Length I can deal with. I saw the ghost overflow on another forum and am thinking about a separate sump.
Is it worth bumping up to a 20 with a "ghost overflow) or should I suck it up and stick with what I have (10g)?
I use the frag tank to put frags in before moving to DT so that I can see the colors. I also have my original 2 clowns on there.


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## Flexin5 (Nov 12, 2011)

A 20 long is a great frag tank/qt tank imo. there's plenty of room while still being not that big water volume wise. i used a standard 10 gallon for my first frag tank and it was too small to keep a decent amount of frags.


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## altcharacter (Jan 10, 2011)

I had a 20gL and ran out of room fast. The biggest problem you will run into is that you can only keep zoos and palys in a small tank. Once you start fragging torches and such you tend to start having pieces kill each other


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## explor3r (Mar 14, 2010)

20 longs are great tanks for small reefs or frag tanks you just have to use the space properly, if you can go a bit bigger next to that is a 33long which is an amazing tank...check it out..


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## Marz (Mar 1, 2014)

I wish I had the length as that would be awesome. The largest I think I can go is 36". = 23g long. Believe it or not my frag tank id in my office.I like the idea of a frag tank setup as a DT, bare bottom, acrylic frag racks, no HOB anything. My current frag tank is setup to grow out and play around with. 
The cost for lighting would kill me on a 33long. 

I am in no rush as I have never had an external sump, so I am also looking at this as a learning experience.


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

If you can push it, I would go with the 3' tank to maximize your space. As others have said, you tend to quickly run out of space in a frag tank somehow (happens to everyone).


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## Marz (Mar 1, 2014)

I just measured and considering I am going to make a stand, 36 may just be pushing it + I still have to figure out a light..yes it/they will be LED. I also want to keep it around the 12" high and 12" wide if possible.

I want to keep the tank clean, clean, clean. I have seen the ghost overflows and will be asking Miracles about drilling. The tank won't be starphire as I am trying to keep this as low cost as possible...if I do 36" long can anyone suggest some good links so I can figure what to do - how many holes to drill, size, type of low, etc.


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## Marz (Mar 1, 2014)

Last night I decided to do a crap-ton of reading and I thought that I would ask everyone their thoughts on a bean animal overflow. I would like to do coast to coast but I am not sure that I could do it...my skills are around wood and home renos, not cutting glass, or acrylic . The frag tank is setup in my office and the noise is driving me a little more crazy than I already am. Going as silent as possible will be key.

I have a rendering which is not perfectly to scale, but wanted to get everyone's thoughts. 2 x 1" returns on either side of the overflow. I have looked at the charts for the overflow piping but haven't gotten there yet as to what will be the best size holes. I am also looking at getting the overflow built much like a Ghost Overflow (always depending on cost)

Any suggestions/input/comments would be helpful.


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## fesso clown (Nov 15, 2011)

I did 3/4 inch (bulkhead/pipe size) bean animal drain with a 3/4 inch return on a 60 gallon. I used an eheim 1262 return pump (too big) and diverted a lot of water back to the sump. What I am trying to say is that with that size you won't need any plumbing over 3/4 inch. You might want to use 1 inch drains but you'll end up closing the gate valve most of the way on the syphon to achieve a good flow rate through your sump.


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## fesso clown (Nov 15, 2011)

in addition... think backwards from flow rate through sump...
36x12x12 is 26 gallons. 
you want somewhere between 5 to 10 times the DT volume to go through the sump per hour. The actual amount is close to what your skimmer can skim but let's just say 5-10X 
10x26 is 260 GPH - that's not very much is it... 
a 3/4 inch drain will give you 812 gallons per hour with 18 inches of head height. http://www.beananimal.com/articles/hydraulics-for-the-aquarist.aspx
Still plenty of GPH and you'll end up closing your gate valve to match your return pump and or add a manifold to run reactors or divert water to a fuge. 
Hope that helps a bit...


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## Marz (Mar 1, 2014)

very helpful. That site is excellent, I hadn't found that one.

In other words, I can do 3/4 return and drains. I have assumed, but haven't measured yet, my head height. I do think it will be around 24", but will have to see once I get the inside stand height figured out. Need to add to my drawing and do one to scale.

Very much appreciated.

Will 2 returns be too much?


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## fesso clown (Nov 15, 2011)

If you mean 1 x 3/4 return split into 2 outputs. That will be fine. 
Here is "Bean Animal's" actual write up for his system. 
http://www.beananimal.com/projects/silent-and-fail-safe-aquarium-overflow-system.aspx

The thing with using 3/4" drains is that you run the risk of a plug in the drain so use a proper strainer and pay attention. The odds of all 3 drains getting clogged however is close impossible especially if you pay attention.


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## Marz (Mar 1, 2014)

If I use 1" drains, can't I just use the true union ball valves to "dial it in"? If I do a coast to coast, then can I put my returns through both back glass and overflow?

Yes I did mean 2 in tank returns that were split off one from sump.

I am going to do another render. I also need to determine where the 3 holes will get drilled and how I plan on doing the return.


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## fesso clown (Nov 15, 2011)

you only need to put a valve on the primary syphon drain, the emergancy drains are just straight pipes, (I use unions in mine for easy access) on ther main drain You'll want to use a gate valve and not a ball valve for better accuracy in tuning down the syphon. If you use 1 inch drains your gate valve will be about 1/2 closed all the time. Use 1/4" and your gate will only be about a quarter closed to slow donm the syphon to match your return pump.


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## Marz (Mar 1, 2014)

I think I understand. I have to admit that this is fun. Certainly gives me much more of an appreciation, on a smaller scale, of the things that you guys have to think about.
Here's what I have gotten from reading the links provided and your comments.

1. I can use either size 1" or 3/4" I will just have to maintain the main drain valve at either 1/2 or 1/4 to slow down the syphon flow. *Is either preferable?*

2. Main syphon drain only uses a valve and a gate valve is preferable. The Main drain must sit lower in the water than the secondary drain. Both still have to have water level at elbow. The emergency drain is straight up, and I assume sits lower than the overflow lip. As per this image.









3. Here is a sketchup that I did. *On doing more reading, do you think a weir setup would work better or still look at something like the ghost overflow? *I haven't done the plumping drawing yet, but the 2 returns would be T'd below the tank in the sump area. I only left 6" on either side of the overflow for the return, but I can obviously reduce that to 4" or even 3" so that I get the most surface contact.









Very much appreciated.


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