# Thoughts on Gold Bee x CRS/CBS CrossBreeding



## Symplicity (Oct 14, 2011)

Hey Guys,
I am currently keeping a gold bee with my CRS/CBS and have read mixed reviews. People say they increase/enhance the whites and get closer to Mosura grade.

Others say they dull the white intensity 

So from my exp my Gold bee (f) x CRS (m) has had 10-12 shrimplets. 7-8 CRS A grade, 2 CRS S-SS, & 2 CBS A. From the shrimplets I find no issues with the white intensity, though it has only been 2 weeks since birth .....


What are your thoughts? 

P.S Why didnt my gold bee have a gold bee off-spring lol! i really wanted more gold bees


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

Crossing CRS/CBS with golden/snow white give you better pattern in terms of the grading system North America still follow (A/S/SS/SSS), but the colour will definitely suffer. 

It's very popular in Japan a few years back to get instant SSS, however, after a while, people found that they can not get the colour back even after several generations, that's when a few pure blood lines because the mainstream but their shrimps never cross with golden. 

I don't care much about pattern so I wouldn't do it, but it's a personal choice.


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## Symplicity (Oct 14, 2011)

randy said:


> Crossing CRS/CBS with golden/snow white give you better pattern in terms of the grading system North America still follow (A/S/SS/SSS), but the colour will definitely suffer.
> 
> It's very popular in Japan a few years back to get instant SSS, however, after a while, people found that they can not get the colour back even after several generations, that's when a few pure blood lines because the mainstream but their shrimps never cross with golden.
> 
> I don't care much about pattern so I wouldn't do it, but it's a personal choice.


Ill let you know how to colouration comes out after afew more weeks when the shrimplets get larger


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## getochkn (Jul 10, 2011)

Golden/snow genetics are recessive so your CRS you bred with didn't have any golden gene's in it, so that's why you didn't have any golden babies. You need two recessive carriers to give a golden, so two goldens will give you all golden. Any CRS/CBS that has golden genes in it mixed with your golden would give some golden, some crs/cbs mixes, etc. If you have two CRS that have golden genes, you can get a golden baby out. I've seen a few people on planted tank who bought some that were heavily laced with golden genes as they were getting like 40-50% golden babies from each batch.

The golden can be bred back out to some extent. There is no SSS+ pattern shrimp without golden/snow genes, yet there is some really nice looking SSS+ lightening, crown, etc patterns. Once the headgear pattern is stabilized, some breeders have been able to breed the golden out while retaining some nice patterns. True pure lines top out around SS though normally.

I'm going to move all my goldens that are still small to another tank to breed out only golden/snows. This is my prize one that I want to breed more and give me babies that look like this.


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## bettaforu (Sep 6, 2009)

I have crossed goldens and snows with CRS and CBS...the goldens are red based and the snows black based. I have several very nice snow whites in my tank of crowns/flower mosura (CRS/CBS)

here is pic of my snow whites, several generations from the first ones I got.









I just noticed a new baby snow this morning, so they are still reproducing.
I guess it is a personal preference as to whether you like the look of the all gold or all white shrimp. For me I love the look


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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

No, you have to have a PRL or a JPRL right next to a golden or snow white to realize that you are still way off. For a PRL, the intensity of the white almost glow. They are always pure white, never dirty white or white with holes or white with yellow borders or white with pink borders. They are never white in terms of a thin transparent white. This is the price you pay for crossing a golden.
There is no proof, but I am pretty sure the Japanese cross a golden at one point or another to achieve their SSS. But the difference between them and us, is that they are probably 15+ generations down the road. And us? We're like new born. If you're working with a golden right now, you're looking at least 5 years before you can produce a consistent PRL. And that is on a big condition that you know what you are doing and you can improve your CRS quality. This is a big "IF". I find that in most cases, most of the people's CRS degraded with each generation. This is because most people don't care for them properly. Ie., proper water quality and diet.

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## bettaforu (Sep 6, 2009)

I agree that over time the quality of our American/Cdn CRS get less and less white, in fact I currently have a berried female that her white is showing some pink now (I think she's old too)

Those gorgeous japanese shrimps are extremes, and like others have stated it takes many, many, years of culling to produce these unique shrimps and the price shows it. $950 for one Hino is what is being asked right now, so IF you have that kind of money to spend on one shrimp that will only live 18+ months if your lucky, then all the power to you, go for it! 

I cannot afford that luxury, nor would I buy a shrimp at that price because it would only be a *showpiece* for me and nothing more. I am a business person and need to be able to move out my CRS/CBS offspring at an affordable price to be able to keep bringing in more shrimps.

I can however appreciate the best the world has to offer, beauty is something that should never be overlooked and in this case these Japanese shrimps are definitely something to behold! I hope one day I can visit Japan (one of my dream vacations) and be able to see them in person, for that I will have to wait a bit longer, but one day


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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

bettaforu said:


> I agree that over time the quality of our American/Cdn CRS get less and less white, in fact I currently have a berried female that her white is showing some pink now (I think she's old too)


Here's a hint, I strongly suspect that those pink carries the WR/Ruby genes. You just have to unravel them.



> Those gorgeous japanese shrimps are extremes, and like others have stated it takes many, many, years of culling to produce these unique shrimps and the price shows it. $950 for one Hino is what is being asked right now, so IF you have that kind of money to spend on one shrimp that will only live 18+ months if your lucky, then all the power to you, go for it!


Heh, I can only wish. I can upgrade my shrimp quality though, but *sigh*, I wish I have more time in my life.



> I can however appreciate the best the world has to offer, beauty is something that should never be overlooked and in this case these Japanese shrimps are definitely something to behold! I hope one day I can visit Japan (one of my dream vacations) and be able to see them in person, for that I will have to wait a bit longer, but one day


Yeah, me too. One day ...

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