# Cardinal Tetra Difficulties



## jeff158 (May 27, 2009)

Hi I recently bought 20 cardinal tetras and they seem to be dying close to a daily basis. They live in a somewhat planted 15g, the water is changed once a week. I'm not sure if its disease or not because the endlers, cories and pleco living in the tank aren't showing signs of disease and the CRS aren't dying either. I don't have a water testing kit so I can't give much more details then this any help will be greatly appreciated.


----------



## Hitch (Apr 26, 2009)

few questions:

1) how long has the tank be set up?

2) did you add all of the tetras in at the same time?

3) where did you get these tetras?

4) how did you acclimatize the fish?

5) when did you add the fish?

But just a guess, I would say its either something to do with their acclimatization process (if you got these cardinals from Mike at finatics.....they are all wild fish, so they are not use to the Toronto hard water...so you have to acclimatize them into the tank very slowly). Another possibility is just the fact that there is a sudden large increase of fish population in the tank, causing water parameters to drop (try taking a sample of your water to a LFS and get them to do a water test for ya, or get a test kit, you will need one eventually). A water test would be able to figure if the water parameters are dropping.

Sorry to hear about the losses.


----------



## jeff158 (May 27, 2009)

1)The tank has been up for about a year now

2)I added them in 10 at time with a 5 day interval

3)Got them from Luckys 

4)I did the standard temperature acclimation

5)They were added during the past 2 weeks


----------



## Hitch (Apr 26, 2009)

Get the water tested...and then we can work from there.


----------



## jeff158 (May 27, 2009)

Ok thanks for the help and have you gotten it tested at petsmart or any of those major petstores that offer it for free? Also what information do I need from the test?


----------



## Hitch (Apr 26, 2009)

I am unsure...never brought water to the store to get tested myself.

the main things you need are ammonia, nitrite and nitrate.


----------



## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

For cardinals, they prefer softer water and lower pH. So aside from the three mentioned above, get the pH reading as well.
When you say planted, do you add Co2 or not? If you add Co2, then that will have me scratching my head. If not, then it's most likely a pH shock.
Add some dry oak leaves (5 - 7 leaves). Go out and pick some now. Tis the perfect time of the year. Just wash them and .. err ... stay away from commercial buildings as their contractor might be using pesticides. Oak trees leavs from the parks are perfect.
Next time you might want to do the drip acclimatization.
Aside from that, it's kind of hard to think of what else can be done at this point. How big are they? If they are really small, then it might be the endlers that are harrashing them.
Also, endlers, pleco and corries ... not sure how many of each you have, but you're getting to the fully stocked point for a 15G.

*Never pay again for live sex! | Hot girls doing naughty stuff for free! | Chat for free!*


----------



## Cory (May 2, 2008)

I find that with Cardinals, unlike neons oddly enough buying them a bit larger can make all the difference. They seem to be more able to survive at larger sizes.


----------



## Byronicle (Apr 18, 2009)

Cory said:


> I find that with Cardinals, unlike neons oddly enough buying them a bit larger can make all the difference. They seem to be more able to survive at larger sizes.


Yea i completely agree, even buying neon tetras, the larger ones are the way to go, still have all my neon tetras but when my brother got these tiny ones for his tank, they all died within a week.


----------



## Hitch (Apr 26, 2009)

really? I would think that juvis are better for acclimation. Like plecos and shrimps in particular, it is alot easier to acclimate juvis then adults.


----------



## Byronicle (Apr 18, 2009)

i dunno, it just seems the older ones are more hardy and can tolerate stress easier, whereas the small ones are more fragile


----------



## jeff158 (May 27, 2009)

There is no co2 system in the tank and the cardinals were about 3cm long when I got them, and any leaves will do or just oak?


----------



## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

Hitch said:


> really? I would think that juvis are better for acclimation. Like plecos and shrimps in particular, it is alot easier to acclimate juvis then adults.


There's a trade off. Juvies aren't as hardy but those that survive will live a bit longer while adults are more hardy but some don't live that long. I don't think there is a golden rule, just depends on the types of fish.



jeff158 said:


> There is no co2 system in the tank and the cardinals were about 3cm long when I got them, and any leaves will do or just oak?


3 cm is a pretty good size. As for leaves, I only know that oak leaves is a better choice in Canada than most other ones. That's because they take 2X or 3X the time to decompose in your tank. So it won't make a big mess. Although eventually they will, and you will need to replace them. As for the other leaves, they usually fall apart and decompose within a week or so. It gets messy. Also, some leaves are bad for fish tanks. I just stick with oak leaves.
Another choice would be alder cones. Black alder cones are the best, but we have mostly red alder cones. They are harvest in the spring though. Some people sell them too.
Then there is the almond leaves from Asia. These are the best, but also cost $1 or $2 per leaf (so yes, money do grow on trees). These decompose very quickly though. But are known to have medicinal and breeding inducing properties.

*Never pay again for live sex! | Hot girls doing naughty stuff for free! | Chat for free!*


----------



## jeff158 (May 27, 2009)

Do cherry tree leaves work? and how many leaves would I need for a 15 gallon?


----------



## Byronicle (Apr 18, 2009)

Zebrapl3co said:


> 3 cm is a pretty good size. As for leaves, I only know that oak leaves is a better choice in Canada than most other ones. That's because they take 2X or 3X the time to decompose in your tank. So it won't make a big mess. Although eventually they will, and you will need to replace them. As for the other leaves, the usually fall apart and decompose with a week or so. It gets messy. Also, some leaves are bad for fish tanks. I just stick with oak leaves.
> Another choice would be alder cones. Black alder cones are the best, but we have mostly red alder cones. They are harvest in the spring though. Some people sell them too.


that is really interesting about the oak leaves, where would you put it? underneath the gravel?


----------



## twoheadedfish (May 10, 2008)

i was under the impression cardies are nortoriously poorly bred in this area. is that true?


----------



## Cory (May 2, 2008)

That's neons, cardinals are almost always wild caught as breeding them in captivity is extremely difficult and to my knowledge has only been done by a select few.


----------



## Mr Fishies (Sep 21, 2007)

twoheadedfish said:


> i was under the impression cardies are nortoriously poorly bred in this area. is that true?





Cory said:


> That's neons, cardinals are almost always wild caught as breeding them in captivity is extremely difficult and to my knowledge has only been done by a select few.


There are some good local breeders, at least one. I picked up 25 Cardinals from Menagerie, sourced from a local according to Harold. (I asked because it was important to me). I lost zero fish.

They were all healthy when I left the store, but at home two had been beaten up badly on the trip home with tail rays nipped off. In my heavily planted tank they hid a lot and I made sure to squirt/dump some food into the area they were hiding and since I saw them eating, I kept it up. After a few weeks they were back with the school swimming a bit slower, but in the group. I'm pretty sure they are the 2 runts of the group now, not surprisingly, but they are still with me.

I lost one about a month later, but I'm pretty certain that was due to overfeeding/overeating. I had a hard time getting food to my Rams since the Cards would clean the food up long before it got to the bottom where they had been eating all along. I dumped too many sinking pellets in and the bugger gorged himself to death.


----------



## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

jeff158 said:


> Do cherry tree leaves work? and how many leaves would I need for a 15 gallon?


I don't know, but I would stay away from genetically modified trees though. Not to mention the cherry tree are too sweet. Not something I would pick. Even with oak tree, there are English oak and the normal ones (I think there are 4 other types of oak in Canada but I can't tell the difference), I used both before, but prefer the normal ones. Put 4 - 5. 
This is getting a little too much attention for my confort.
The reason why I said to add oak leaves was because it's readily available right now and it's a "Mcguyver" fix to your problem. Plus it's only temporary until your cardinal get used to a higher pH water. This may help to slowly tie them into different water.

The purpose of the oak leaves was to give you a bit of black water in your tank. That's the natural environment the cardinals live in. To get black water, there are many many ways. Almond leaves and alder cones are two others. Drift wood and peat moss can also give you this as well. So don't focus on the oak leaves too much. It's just a quick fix to your current problem.

You can also do hard chemitry against your tank and drop chemicals to lower your pH. But I don't like this approach as it can easily spin out of my hands.



Byronicle said:


> that is really interesting about the oak leaves, where would you put it? underneath the gravel?


I just dump them into my tank.

*Never pay again for live sex! | Hot girls doing naughty stuff for free! | Chat for free!*


----------



## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

Zebrapl3co said:


> For cardinals, they prefer softer water and lower pH. So aside from the three mentioned above, get the pH reading as well.
> When you say planted, do you add Co2 or not? If you add Co2, then that will have me scratching my head. If not, then it's most likely a pH shock.


I wouldn't worry about the pH with cardinals, unless you are breeding them.



Zebrapl3co said:


> Also, endlers, pleco and corries ... not sure how many of each you have, but you're getting to the fully stocked point for a 15G.


This is important...how many fish do you actually have in a 15 gallon tank?


----------



## pothehap (Nov 11, 2009)

Yea i completely agree, even buying neon tetras, the larger ones are the way to go


----------



## bigfishy (Jun 19, 2009)

Byronicle said:


> Yea i completely agree, even buying neon tetras, the larger ones are the way to go, still have all my neon tetras but when my brother got these tiny ones for his tank, they all died within a week.


must be doing something wrong then!

Mines are doing pretty well in a 35G tank, (2 weeks in quarantine, + almost a week in the 35s)

only 1 loss, because it got suck into the xp2 filter 



feeding well with crushed tetra colorbits / with a mix of crushed cichlid gold pellets


----------



## opsdgmv (Nov 16, 2009)

ike plecos and shrimps in particular


----------

