# I'm slowly losing fish



## twoheadedfish (May 10, 2008)

and i'm not sure why, but i have an idea.

about once a week or so i go "hmm, i haven't seen X fish in a while. oh, shit, it's definitely not in this tank. it's dead." over the course of the last 7 weeks i've lost an otto, 3 corys and 3 guppies and a platy. 

of the bodies i've been able to find relatively untouched, i see nothing out of the ordinary. no redness, distention, internal bleeding, nothing. there's no symptoms before hand either. of the fish i've lost, none had shown any weirdness - except one, the first fish to die, the platy.

the platy had dropped for what i think was the first time. right after the birth she lost all kinds of weight. she lasted about 8 weeks before she died. at the end she looked very malnourished and wasted away. i figured the pregnancy and birth was especially hard on her, but now i'm thinking maybe it was something else. a parasite maybe? i dunno. no idea. i've been leaning towards parasite. does it make sense that they would slowly die off like this? my medicatin' trigger finger is getting itchy...

any suggestions as to how i can narrow down what i'm dealing with? (or hail mary straight up guesses?)

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20gal
ammonia, nitrite, nitrates - 0, 0, >0.5
temp 77
weekly 20 per cent water changes
heavily planted
cherry shrimp, rasboras, tetras, platys, swordtails, corys


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## Sunstar (Jul 29, 2008)

I had that same thing with two platy. I was suspecting paracites. I lost one last week, unfortunately. She did exactly as you described. Lost all sorts of weight and wasted away.


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## KhuliLoachFan (Mar 8, 2008)

*What would it hurt to do a little medicating?*

I would throw something at it. Whaddya got? Last time I had a bout of mysteriosis dyinitis (ha ha very funny eh?) I dosed everything with a combo anti-fungal/anti-bacterial/anti-ich thingy. Dunno what it was, but I zapped it.

W


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## twoheadedfish (May 10, 2008)

KhuliLoachFan said:


> mysteriosis dyinitis


this i like.

i've got some triple sulfa lying around...yesno?

otherwise i could make a trip to pick up something else.


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## KhuliLoachFan (Mar 8, 2008)

The stuff I used was Metronidazole. It's either anti-bacterial with anti-fungal properties, or the other way around. Bad news for buggies, safe for fish and inverts.

W


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## twoheadedfish (May 10, 2008)

thx


bombs away.


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## Sunstar (Jul 29, 2008)

I am hoping my fenbendazole solves my issue, if it's paracitical. Unfortunately it's too late for the sick girl.


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## Cory_Dad (Apr 18, 2008)

Sunstar said:


> I am hoping my fenbendazole solves my issue, if it's paracitical. Unfortunately it's too late for the sick girl.


Where did you buy that from?


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## Sunstar (Jul 29, 2008)

Ebay.

I spoke to my vet and she refused to sell me a package. I explained why even. (to kill hydra in a shrimp inhabited tank)

I think it cost me about 10 dollars total.


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## Cory_Dad (Apr 18, 2008)

Ok, $10. But from where did you buy it?


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## Sunstar (Jul 29, 2008)

Ebay: Seller petpeeple 

Item: Panacur 3 x 1 gram packages. (yellow box) for the hydra I used 0.1gram per 10 gallons. Although it appears less will work as well.


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## Cory_Dad (Apr 18, 2008)

Thank you for that. I don't need it right now but it's always good to have a source if and when.

Cheers.


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## Cory_Dad (Apr 18, 2008)

Heh, canine de-wormer $12.82 . Interesting...


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## Sunstar (Jul 29, 2008)

right, I got my pet supplies mixed up there. it was my copper test that was about 10 and that which was about 12. Not surprising the vet said nay to me. Dog dewormer in a tank. Sorry for the hijack there, THF


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Triple sulfa is a great med. 

For wasting however, I would look at internal parasites. Good ol' prazipro is a good place to start.


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## Sunstar (Jul 29, 2008)

I've been looking for prazipro and it doesn't seem to be around here. I'll get it at BA the next time I am out there.


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## twoheadedfish (May 10, 2008)

ameekplec. said:


> Triple sulfa is a great med.
> 
> For wasting however, I would look at internal parasites. Good ol' prazipro is a good place to start.


thanks. i'm going to stock up on a couple of meds.


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## Riceburner (Mar 14, 2008)

situation sucks...good luck with the meds.


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## Shattered (Feb 13, 2008)

I'm puzzled by this one as well. I do have a platy that looks anorexic all the time, but no other issues. 

Good luck with the meds.


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## twoheadedfish (May 10, 2008)

thanks. i suppose time will tell. i'm in the middle of a treatment regime, so here's hoping.


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## KhuliLoachFan (Mar 8, 2008)

*dropsy.*

I think my nerve-wracking dropsy experience is over for now. I lost, in total, five danios, and one bleeding heart tetra. I have only one of my original six danios left alive.

W


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## twoheadedfish (May 10, 2008)

that's rough KLF, i'm sorry. 

things may be on the up and up for me as well. no deaths in over a week. yay.


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## Ciddian (Mar 15, 2006)

Omg i am so sorry.. O_O


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## KhuliLoachFan (Mar 8, 2008)

In cheerful news, the fish I have had the longest, over 4 years, Mr. Mystery Fish, I called him, is in fine spirits tonight. He likes to play with the Clown Loaches. I think he thinks he is a clown loach. Wherever they go, he follows. Mr. Mystery Fish was not a fish I purchased. I honestly don't know how he got in my tank. Before I knew anything about fish physiology and breeding, I imagined he must have been the love child of a rubber pleco and a guppy, because that was the only kind of fish I had ever owned. Now that I know that breeding combination is impossible (livebearer + catfish?) I suspect that when I bought three or four "guppies" I actually brought home a small bronze cory, and a few guppies. After neglecting the tank for months, every fish in the tank died but one guppy fry and the Mystery Fish. Not having read anything about aquariums I decided to clean the tank and start over. I used soap and a series of pot-scrubbers to get the huge buildup of guck off the tank. (OH NOES! EEEK!) I rinsed it "very well". I put the two surviving fish in the tank. Both were floating upside down the next morning. I went to work, and came home and the guppy was still dead, but the poor little cory, shocked though his system was, was still wiggling slightly. I felt so bad I went and got him a clean new home, and he's been happily motoring around my tanks ever since. Since that incident, over two years ago, I started to read a bit more about fish-keeping. When I started to get more into the hobby, about a year and a bit ago, I have to remember to thank Mr Mystery Fish, whom I now refer to as "Mr Survivor Fish" for hanging out and surviving a long period of neglect. He is the happiest little fishy ever, now, that he has his clown loach friends, and a great big 30g tank to swim around in. He started out in a 0.5g, and after almost killing him, I bought him a 10g out of guilt, and now he lives with his friends in a nicely planted and rock-scaped 30g. 

W


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## twoheadedfish (May 10, 2008)

iiiiiiit's baaaAAACCCKKK.

also, may I say (*^[email protected]#%^T%!)(!!!!!!!!!

pardon my French. on the plus side, im now able to witness the symptoms. i've got this big ol' cory, and he's come down with Captain Trips now too (that's what I've started calling this population decimating mystery disease.) The symptoms are: sudden and extreme loss of vitality. Fish stays on bottom, moves very little, but is responsive to stimulus, will swim quickly when threatened/frightened. very fast respiration. no redness, swelling or anything like that. he is not wasting away.

i tried triple sulfa, since i began to doubt my parasite hypthesis. maybe EM now?


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## Cory_Dad (Apr 18, 2008)

Did you do anything in the last day or so to/with the tank?

I suggest an immediate 50% water change. It can't hurt. I just hope you have enough water on standby so there is not temp shock.


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## twoheadedfish (May 10, 2008)

the only thing i've done was added ferts and excel. water change on the way this evening, as i didn't have any water on standby....  bah

i'm going to throw some erythromyacin in there and see what happens. booyaka.


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## Ciddian (Mar 15, 2006)

I dont know if anyone has asked this yet but i just thought of it. Do you live in a home or apt with older taps? Would it be a lead problem?

I remeber pablo not being able to keep any fish because of the pipes in his house being really leady...


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## twoheadedfish (May 10, 2008)

hmm, i've never thought about it. it's a condo building and im not sure of the age. but given the obsoleteness of our heating and cooling, it just might be possible. wierd thing is, this Captain Trips has never affected any of my minnows, just livebearers and corys....

i'll have to check with the building sups i guess.


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## Cory_Dad (Apr 18, 2008)

Ciddian said:


> I dont know if anyone has asked this yet but i just thought of it. Do you live in a home or apt with older taps? Would it be a lead problem?
> 
> I remeber pablo not being able to keep any fish because of the pipes in his house being really leady...


Interesting thought Ciddian, but I would have thought that the de-chlor (if it's a good one) would have neutralized the heavy metals, etc.

Just on principle (and from a previous scare) I use double the recommended dosage. On the bottle it says that this is ok to do.

Arg, I hate when this sorta stuff happens.


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## KhuliLoachFan (Mar 8, 2008)

I have doubted that Dechlorinator mixes are effective at neutralizing heavy metals, yet I also doubt you have bad water. Double dosing dechlorinator helps promote slime coat on your fish, and so it doesn't hurt but I doubt it detoxifies city water, or that city water has any significant amount of toxins. I did some reading and I cannot find any place that lists the chelating agents that are used. There are patents on various blends, but I smell a lot of 'snake oil' here. Has anyone ever researched the chelation agents that are used? Sodium Thiosulphate alone is not the key here. Nor is the aloe vera or chamomile. Okay I found one thing: EDTA. I wonder if that is actually in the water-treatment bottles. They don't tell you. Just "Organic Chelating Agents".

Forget about fish here. If you have heavy metal contaminations, lead, cadmium, or mercury in your water, then GET THE HECK OUT OF THAT HOUSE. Seriously. No, you probably don't have heavy metal contamination in your water. However I do believe you can get your water tested, and if you have an old house you should do so. I really doubt your fish got sick from your city water.

Part of the reason for the super-high PH and high GH/KH in Toronto water is to prevent exactly this problem in the first place; Leaching of lead from pipes cannot occur when the lead pipe is liberally coated in mineral deposits.

Chlorine and chloramine take care of any bacteria in the pipes. Thus you can drink this stuff and it won't hurt you. It won't hurt your fishies either. If you really suspect you have a water problem, get it tested for your own peace of mind, but don't panic. It's probably just a run of bad luck.

My condolences. I have had a pretty bad few months with casualties, but I think I'm through the worst of it now. (Crossing fingers. Saying random prayers.)

W


W


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## Cory_Dad (Apr 18, 2008)

Well, you're probably right about the heavy metal part BUT...

1) I do know that here in Markham, they will SUPER chlorinate at times especially after working on the water system. I called the water people and asked the specifically. I suspect that the other water authorities in the GTA follow suite.

2) When work is done on the water system, doesn't that break off the calcium deposits and expose the lead (in the older parts of TO)?

It's easy to blame the water and I've had weird occurrences myself. What helped me was to remove the affected fish to a QT with fresh water and a dose of EM. However, this is strictly anecdotal and unless I'm going to do bacteria/virus/whatever cultures it'll remain that way. Take it to the lowest common denominator and see what happens.

Good luck and cheers.


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## KhuliLoachFan (Mar 8, 2008)

Hmm. I would think there would be laws about how much Chlorine they can dump into drinking water. :-(

W


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## Cory_Dad (Apr 18, 2008)

I imagine there are 'guidelines' but whatever they are they're based on 'human' standards. Does Walkerton mean anything to you?


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## KhuliLoachFan (Mar 8, 2008)

good point. Sigh. :-(


W


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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

Actually, lead is a concern for this city. Our city is decaying and a lot of pipes needs to be replace because they have aged to the point where they are leeching lead into our water system. Just last year. The parliament at University street had to be closed down because they tested the water and there is an unusually high concentration of lead in the tap water. Nobody drink from the tab there any more.

But usually dropsy only happens when the water is dirty or when your tank go into a cycle. You'll have to find that source. It can be accumulated poop in the gravel or your filter got stuck and isn't doing effectively.
Maybe your dechlorinator is really old and expired. Dead fish and food lying around can easily polute the water as well.

*Never pay again for live sex! | Hot girls doing naughty stuff for free! | Chat for free!*


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## twoheadedfish (May 10, 2008)

Zebrapl3co said:


> But usually dropsy only happens when the water is dirty or when your tank go into a cycle. You'll have to find that source. It can be accumulated poop in the gravel or your filter got stuck and isn't doing effectively.
> Maybe your dechlorinator is really old and expired. Dead fish and food lying around can easily polute the water as well.


well, it doesn't look like dropsy. i do deep gravel syphons every week. the dechlor is a new bottle, seachem. definately not expired and i feed lightly. any time a fish dies i pull him that day (at least, i'm usually pretty sure it's that day).


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## Ciddian (Mar 15, 2006)

lead in the water systems is a huge problem right now. Most results that have been comming back have failed even human standards...

But anyway.. It was just a shot in the dark


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

If the heavy metals are a concern, run your WC water in a bucket with a powerhead with a quickfilter stuffed with Carbon.

Try leaving the substrate alone for a while. Each time you disturb it, you can potentially cause a minicycle. Also a lot of beneficial bacteria live in there, and the mulm accumulation can actually be beneficial (to a degree).

I agree with KLF that you may have just started with some bad fish that haven't quite kicked it. I'd also just stick it out and see what happens.

If it makes you feel any better, last year I went through about 3 months of constantly losing fish. I brought home a breeding colony of clown killies, and they introduced something to my whole system that killed at least 15 to 20 fish in a span or 3 to 4 months. First it was bacterial septicemia, then it progressed to a gradual wasting disease, then callamanus worms popped up (The clowns were in their own tank, but I must have mixed nets or something), and then it was the wasting again. The only fish to survive all that were my trio of gouramis and a few other fish who barely survived. Stick it out, keep the water changes up, and you'll get through this.


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## Cory (May 2, 2008)

THF sounds like you have a case of camallanus worms to me. Very nasty intestinal parasite that the symptoms to me sound exactly like. I had it in my guppy tank a year or so ago, took me forever to diagnose because the only visible sign is a small thread-like red protrusion from the fish's anus. To make matters worse, the worm will usually retract itself while the fish is swimming so you need a completely still fish to be able to see it, and sometimes the worm doesn't protrude at all until the fish has died. 

Fish can linger for months with Camallanus and then all of a sudden out of the blue they go kapoot. If you have multiple tanks, your first priority should be to quarantine the one with dying fish. Don't cross-contaminate with nets etc as the worms give off microscopic spores that can easily spread and take down your entire fish room. 

Treating Camallanus is no easy task either. It is highly resistant to most medicines available for fish. Personally, since I'd managed against all odds to contain it to the one tank and because guppies and platies (the tank's residents) are plentiful I decided to simply sterilize the entire tank when the first attempt at treating it failed. The two most recommended medications that people claim work are : Levamisole and Fenebenedezol (check previous posts for the correct spelling). Levamisole is unfortunately illegal in Canada for whatever reason, although people can get it if you ask around. Fen____ is available from vets and farm supply stores but as mentioned earlier it can be difficult to procure from them. You might try the e-bay seller for it. 

I'd be surprised if camallanus wasn't your issue, but if it's not, definitely sounds like a parasite. I kept fish in London On. where the whole lead pipes thing became an issue and on top of that lived in a 55 year old apartment with its own old pipes so I don't think that's your issue. Not to mention that if you are doing frequent water changes your dechlorinator should be taking out a lot of the heavy metal in the water anyways. 

I'd definitely keep my eye out for the thread like red worm coming out the fish's behind and look into the worm a bit because I suspect that is your problem. 

Good luck and sorry you had to lose your pets .


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

See if you can see any signs of the worms. On small fish, the only indication usually is a sunken belly and lack of energy from the fish, as it usually just kind of hovers around looking like it's going to keep over sometime soon.

Shoot me a pm if you do think it's Callamanus worms, or just want to give the meds a shot. I have some Levamisole, so I can send some your way if needed. I've sent it to a bunch of people already, and it's worked charms there too, just as it did in my tank.


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## twoheadedfish (May 10, 2008)

pm sent. thanks ameekplec. and cory, too, for the diagnosis. did a little more reading and I bet that's it.


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## Ciddian (Mar 15, 2006)

Yes! Works wonders.. :3


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## Cory (May 2, 2008)

Not a problem THF! Hopefully with the meds from ameek you will be back on track in no time.


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## twoheadedfish (May 10, 2008)

well, i began treatment last night with the Levamisole that ameekplec prepared for me. fingers crossed.


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## Shattered (Feb 13, 2008)

I wish you the best on the treatments, I hope it clears it up. On a positive note I've learned quite a few things on FW desease so far.

And now for a bit of humor:



ameekplec. said:


> ... so I can send some your way if needed. I've sent it to a bunch of people already, and it's worked charms there too, just as it did in my tank.


Just be careful if he adds: "and the first dose is free."


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Lol, every dose is free 

But the real good stuff.....


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## twoheadedfish (May 10, 2008)

well, it's been three weeks since my first dose, and a week since the second dose of levamisole. Thanks again ameekplec, i owe you. I haven't lost a single fish since. looks like I've finally nipped this. You ever need a cup of sugar or something, neighbour, let me know.


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Sweet! Good to hear it's worked out for you!!


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## Sunstar (Jul 29, 2008)

*I have: Callamanus worms*

What the heck do I do with them? I saw them in my sunburst wag this morning. a couple tell tail red things sticking out her backside. 

Edit: I read fenbendazol (panacure) helps if fed mixed in food. I did this with the fish's favourite treat, sea scallop. I do hope this helps. those are grosssssss. I wonder if that was why two of my platy wasted away earlier on.


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## twoheadedfish (May 10, 2008)

seems pretty likely to me anyways. best of luck in treatment.


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Let me know if you need Levamisole. I can ship it to you.


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## Sunstar (Jul 29, 2008)

I'll give the fenbendazol a try then last resort pester you? Wish I had realised this sooner...


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## Sunstar (Jul 29, 2008)

I am seeing no change, what would I owe you for such medicine, Ameekplec?


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Nothing. Just postage


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## Sunstar (Jul 29, 2008)

got it, finally. Going to do it tonight and leave the tanks in "blackout" tomorrow. 

After 24 hours I replace the carbons?


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

No carbon while you're medicating - it removes the medication.

You can replace it after 24hrs, yes.


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## Sunstar (Jul 29, 2008)

feeding fish during that time? yay, nay, peas?


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Dunno, I never did. Just left the tank alone for 24hrs. I can't see how feeding them would hurt though.


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## Sunstar (Jul 29, 2008)

perhaps I'll give them a small meal to make things move along. They look at me and say this:

We're so hungry give us fooods now please!!! we are starving totally crazy hungry!!!! 

*shrug*


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## Sunstar (Jul 29, 2008)

final question, how is it on nerite and MTsnails?


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## Sunstar (Jul 29, 2008)

my fish took a vote and declared you their deity father, Ameekplec. Things look good in all bodies of water.


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