# Where to buy Apistogramma - GTA



## ShawnJames (Nov 16, 2021)

As the title says I am looking to buy a pair of apistogramma. Open to various species.

Located in Toronto but looking anywhere in the GTA.

Thanks in advance!


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## Salv1ni (Sep 25, 2021)

Big Als, menagerie, finatics, shrimpfever.


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## ShawnJames (Nov 16, 2021)

Salv1ni said:


> Big Als, menagerie, finatics, shrimpfever.


Depending on the time I have found most of those stores do not have them. I dont frequent Shrimpfever and Finatics as often so maybe I will give them a call. I tried one Big Als but is there a specific location you know specifically usually has them by chance? Thanks!


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## Poseidon (Sep 1, 2013)

Check on Kijiji. One individual is selling a number of different species. Both adult pairs and juveniles. I think he's in Toronto somewhere.


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## Rain (Feb 21, 2016)

Hey, Tails and Scales currently has quite a few different species in stock. Be warned though, lots of them have stubby tail mutations and shorter gill plates. The males are mostly unaffected and there are females that have normal tails albeit most have short plates. They aren't short enough to the point where you'd notice if you aren't paying close attention, however.


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## Greg_o (Mar 4, 2010)

Do a search here for user Born Again Scaper, he was breeding them recently.


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## ShawnJames (Nov 16, 2021)

Greg_o said:


> Do a search here for user Born Again Scaper, he was breeding them recently.


Thanks I tried searching but couldn’t find him unfortunately.


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## Poseidon (Sep 1, 2013)

I just bought a pair of Apistogramma Cacatoides Double Reds from Angelfins in Guelph. Reasonable price at $7/fish. There are also a few other varieties of apisto. www.angelfins.ca


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## ShawnJames (Nov 16, 2021)

Poseidon said:


> I just bought a pair of Apistogramma Cacatoides Double Reds from Angelfins in Guelph. Reasonable price at $7/fish. There are also a few other varieties of apisto. www.angelfins.ca


Thanks for the tip! That seems like a good price to me, I recently purchased Blue German Rams from Big Ales and they both died within 2 weeks so I am a bit hesitant to add any new fish until I figure out if its something to do with my water quality.


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## Rain (Feb 21, 2016)

ShawnJames said:


> Thanks for the tip! That seems like a good price to me, I recently purchased Blue German Rams from Big Ales and they both died within 2 weeks so I am a bit hesitant to add any new fish until I figure out if its something to do with my water quality.


It could be your water, rams are notoriously sensitive, but it could also be the stock. The mass bred rams just seem to randomly die off without warning, the max I could keep Big Al's rams for was 4 months. Finatics currently has some locally bred ones in stock but they're being treated for internal parasites so if you drop by in a week or so you should be able to pick up some nice healthy ones. They come from the same line that mine do, and my current ones have been healthy for years.

If your water is warm ~82F or higher, your gh and kh match your tap water and your readings are 0/0/0-20 for NH3/N02-/N03-, then it isn't your water.


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## ShawnJames (Nov 16, 2021)

Rain said:


> It could be your water, rams are notoriously sensitive, but it could also be the stock. The mass bred rams just seem to randomly die off without warning, the max I could keep Big Al's rams for was 4 months. Finatics currently has some locally bred ones in stock but they're being treated for internal parasites so if you drop by in a week or so you should be able to pick up some nice healthy ones. They come from the same line that mine do, and my current ones have been healthy for years.
> 
> If your water is warm ~82F or higher, your gh and kh match your tap water and your readings are 0/0/0-20 for NH3/N02-/N03-, then it isn't your water.


Thanks so much for the detailed response that is really helpful. I had been reading that it was a thing with rams, I probably should have steered clear of them in the first place with my freshwater experience level.

My water is just above 82F and I don't have an at home test kit but last time I brought my water into a store they said the levels of everything were good. I live in Toronto and use tap water for my weekly 20% water changes which I treat with Seachem conditioner. Would you recommend getting at at home test kit and any other additives?

Thanks!


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## Rain (Feb 21, 2016)

Yeah, definitely get a test kit. The API Freshwater Master Test kit is probably the most commonly available one, you should have no issues finding it at Big Al's, Amazon, Finatics or wherever. The issue with store tests is that they use strips, which can be a bit more inaccurate, and they'll tell you your water is fine without giving your exact values. A store would probably consider a nitrates level of 25 to be fine but once you get above 20, your rams become more susceptible to hole in the head disease (HITH), so it really isn't fine.

I don't think you'd need any other additive beyond that. If you can properly test your water and share your results, I can tell you how to proceed from there.

Also, if you do get the test kit I mentioned above, be sure to vigorously shake the nitrate bottles, they won't work if you don't. It's currently going for $50 on most sites but commonly drops down to $34 during sales, and boxing day is right around the corner. Additionally, Finatics has a 10-20% product sale going on right now, so it might be worth calling them.


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## ShawnJames (Nov 16, 2021)

Rain said:


> Yeah, definitely get a test kit. The API Freshwater Master Test kit is probably the most commonly available one, you should have no issues finding it at Big Al's, Amazon, Finatics or wherever. The issue with store tests is that they use strips, which can be a bit more inaccurate, and they'll tell you your water is fine without giving your exact values. A store would probably consider a nitrates level of 25 to be fine but once you get above 20, your rams become more susceptible to hole in the head disease (HITH), so it really isn't fine.
> 
> I don't think you'd need any other additive beyond that. If you can properly test your water and share your results, I can tell you how to proceed from there.
> 
> Also, if you do get the test kit I mentioned above, be sure to vigorously shake the nitrate bottles, they won't work if you don't. It's currently going for $50 on most sites but commonly drops down to $34 during sales, and boxing day is right around the corner. Additionally, Finatics has a 10-20% product sale going on right now, so it might be worth calling them.


Really appreciate the in-depth advice. I will be sure to look out for the The API Freshwater Master Test kit on sale especially on Boxing day! Looking up how to combat water with high nitrate levels out of curiosity, do you use tap water or RO water for water changes yourself?

I used to have a saltwater tank for over 5 years and that was a ton of work, having bought a used freshwater tank about a year ago I think I naively haven’t done my proper research on controlling water quality. The tank is heavily planted including some out of water plants and I was initially slow to introduce fish but these recent losses have me a bit rattled.


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## Rain (Feb 21, 2016)

No, I just use tap water. Plants do help with nitrates but as much as people seem to think they do. Plants won't make up for overfeeding or an overstocked tank unless the tank is very heavily planted, not that I'm suggesting you overfeed or overstock. The most reliable way to combat nitrates is with frequent water changes, I do two 25% water changes a week on my ram tanks and my nitrates don't climb past 10ppm.

Denitrifying bacteria also helps, it's an anaerobic bacteria that converts nitrate into free nitrogen, but you need anaerobic conditions for that. A deep substrate will provide those conditions and some companies suggest their specialized media, like Seachem Matrix, will as well though I'm a bit doubtful of that.


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## ShawnJames (Nov 16, 2021)

Rain said:


> No, I just use tap water. Plants do help with nitrates but as much as people seem to think they do. Plants won't make up for overfeeding or an overstocked tank unless the tank is very heavily planted, not that I'm suggesting you overfeed or overstock. The most reliable way to combat nitrates is with frequent water changes, I do two 25% water changes a week on my ram tanks and my nitrates don't climb past 10ppm.
> 
> Denitrifying bacteria also helps, it's an anaerobic bacteria that converts nitrate into free nitrogen, but you need anaerobic conditions for that. A deep substrate will provide those conditions and some companies suggest their specialized media, like Seachem Matrix, will as well though I'm a bit doubtful of that.


I feed twice a day and from what I can tell I don’t overfeed. Its a 25 gallon cube tank stocked with 9 fish and 2 shrimp so I think I’m way understocked from what I have read. Interesting that you do 25% water changes twice a week, I will consider upping my frequency. Unfortunately the substrate isn’t very deep so I would say I am beyond using that method.

Do you have any pics of your tanks I would love to see!


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## Rain (Feb 21, 2016)

Yeah, I wasn't trying to suggest you were overfeeding or overstocking, just sharing some general pointers. And you don't necessarily need to do anything right now if it was just the rams that died, you'll need to test your water first to see if you need to up your water changes or not.

I don't take pictures of my tanks too often, more of a fish pic kinda guy, so all I have on this device currently is this small thumbnail of one of my ram tanks but I can take some better pics later on.


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## ShawnJames (Nov 16, 2021)

Rain said:


> Yeah, I wasn't trying to suggest you were overfeeding or overstocking, just sharing some general pointers. And you don't necessarily need to do anything right now if it was just the rams that died, you'll need to test your water first to see if you need to up your water changes or not.
> 
> I don't take pictures of my tanks too often, more of a fish pic kinda guy, so all I have on this device currently is this small thumbnail of one of my ram tanks but I can take some better pics later on.


Definitely, its super helpful as I am also trying to rule everything out myself as I would really love to add some new fish once I know I am able to. Would love to get a small school of pencil fish.

Your planted tank looks incredible, amazing the volume of plants you have in there. It make what I thought was a heavily planted tank I have not looked heavy at all!


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