# troubled neos



## KING KONG (Oct 24, 2012)

So heres the situation

3 month old tank with mix neos 

I know, I know, I should not mix my neos LOL 
but i like the different colours and its my tanks LOL 
besides im not getting babies any ways so what does it matter at this point LOL 

Netlea aqua soil 
ph low 6ish

no water changes in the past 3 months 
only doing top ups with tap water
no heater @20c

my CRS tank is the same thing but i have babies in them now 

Problem is im not getting babies at all......HMMMMM

aaron said to raise my ph to 6.8 and higher

is there any body else having trouble with neos and active substrate ???


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## bettaforu (Sep 6, 2009)

First off your PH is too low for Neos. Only CRS and Taiwans like low PH...all other shrimps ie: Neos, Tigers prefer PH 7 - 7.6. Straight tap water and just add some good quality water conditioner, like Kordon Amquel + or Nova-Aqua (get it at petsmart) Ive used BAs Topfin when necessary, but prefer the Kordon products.

Secondly, your using the wrong soil for these shrimps...Netlea is basically a low PH soil best suited for CRS etc. Get yourself some pea gravel or a basic clay soil and they will thank you for it.

Neos don't need anything specific like CRS do, they can survive on any type of soil, but do best on one that doesn't bring down the PH like the Netlea, ADA etc.

I keep all my Neos, Tibees, Tigers on either clay soil, or pea gravel and all are breeding. I have babies in each tank.


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## KING KONG (Oct 24, 2012)

awesome thanks for the tips.
now i have catch all of them and the best part is i get to start a new tank.


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## getochkn (Jul 10, 2011)

Anna hit it perfectly. I never had success with Netlea and neo's. It not only drops the pH, but sucks the kH out of the water as well and if you have a digital pH meter, you'll probably find your pH is around 5, my Netlea tanks hit even 4.8pH before. Makes not happy neo's. lol.


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## bettaforu (Sep 6, 2009)

Haha...good luck with that...We have all had to do this at one time or another for a lot of reasons, and trust me when I say this...get a magnifier and a light, cause once you think all of the shrimps are out...your going to find babies hiding in the soil. 

What I do is take out as many as I can possibly find with the net...then shut off the filter take out the sponges etc, and all the rocks and plants (shake them over a container with water from the tank in it...hopefully some babies will fall out) lower the water till its only about 1-2 inch above the soil, then I leave the light off for a few hours....go back, turn on the light and for sure there are babies flitting around and you can probably grab them then. 

Once you get down to the nitty gritty I tip the tank up with something to hold it steady so the water runs to one corner, then I start suctioning it out with a turkey baster....or a small cup and usually you grab a few more that way, until finally nothing moves.

Happy shrimp hunting....remember to check your HOB filters too as they hide in there too.


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## KING KONG (Oct 24, 2012)

bettaforu said:


> Get yourself some pea gravel or a basic clay soil and they will thank you for it.
> 
> Neos don't need anything specific like CRS do, they can survive on any type of soil, but do best on one that doesn't bring down the PH like the Netlea, ADA etc.
> 
> I keep all my Neos, Tibees, Tigers on either clay soil, or pea gravel and all are breeding. I have babies in each tank.


?
How about using sand on the neos ???
have anyone try this before with success of breeding them ???


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## KING KONG (Oct 24, 2012)

bettaforu said:


> Haha...good luck with that...
> Happy shrimp hunting....


LOL Ahhh Yes! The Great Shrimp Hunt Begins !!!

Well may be i will hold off till after the shrimp meet LOL


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

You can use any inert substrate. Most people have good result with regular inert substrate and tap water parameters (myself included).

As long as NO3 is not off the roof, they should be pretty easy to keep/breed. No heater is not an issue, my PFR tank went down to 16 degree for about a week, no issue, now it's about 18 degree and breeding is okay.


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## ScarletFire (Nov 4, 2012)

Hm. I'm in this situation as well. Luckily I have a 10 gal almost ready for livestock. Should I get some crystals to put into the 29 gal to make the most out of the netlea? If I go with this route, should I also move the BN to the 10 gal as well?


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

If you go with sand, you might want to test it with CLR first. CLR works way better than vinegar does.

I've tried several sand types, from several sources around the GTA. I think the only type I have NOT tried is the bagged play sand. All of my samples tested high for calcium. 

This might not be a problem with Neos, who won't mind a higher pH, but it's useful to know if your substrate has the potential to leach a lot of calcium as it can change both pH and GH/KH readings over time.


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## ScarletFire (Nov 4, 2012)

What's CLR?


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## Bigdaddyo (Jan 23, 2010)

ScarletFire said:


> What's CLR?


It`s a house hold cleaner that will remove Calcium, Lime and Rust.


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

Calcium alone won't affect PH, only GH. If this is for bee shrimps (CRS/CBS/TB etc) then you need to know if it affects KH. It's very hard to lower PH with high KH.


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## camboy012406 (Jun 11, 2010)

you'll probably find your pH is around 5 said:


> thats why I dont recommend the netlea specially for a beginner, because of the ph goes under 5 sometimes, it slower the bacteria to grow and longer to cycle.


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## camboy012406 (Jun 11, 2010)

try akadama it is all around substrate for all type of shrimps except saluwesi I guess?


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## bettaforu (Sep 6, 2009)

I have used white sand for Tigers before....at first they seemed to like it a lot, but slowly over the course of a month I lost all of them one after they other. Nothing else was out of whack and it was the white sand from BAs for aquariums, so didn't think there was a link to that, but maybe????

Sand can be added on top of an inert soil like clay just for aesthetics purposes if that is your goal. I personally like the earthy look of a tank with either dark brown soil or the reddish brown clay aquasoil.

Doesn't akadama need to be cycled for a month because of the ammonia issues?


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

Akadama leaks nothing, actually it sucks everything for the first little while so it's hard to keep the tds/gh consistent.


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

Lucky you, you've clearly missed all those annoying commercials for CLR that run a lot. Can Tire has it, so do most other places that sell assorted cleaners. It's essentially just a stronger acid than vinegar, so it reacts faster and to lower levels of calcium. As Randy said, the calcium isn't so much about pH as it is about KH. But if your substrate or rocks, have a lot of calcium, it will leach into the water and raise the KH.. and if you are trying to keep soft acidic water, it will defeat your purpose.
For your Neo shrimp, having a high calcium substrate may not be an issue.. they don't mind harder water, but Crystal and Bee shrimps can't take hard water. 
Local water in the GTA tends to be pretty hard, which is why if you are keeping Crystal shrimp, you need a substrate such as the Netlea, which will soften the water and lower the pH quite a bit, often below what most test kits can measure. That's one reason your Neos are not happy, the substrate is altering the water chemistry to acid/soft conditions that don't suit them.
If you want sand, you can probably use sand. I only mentioned the CLR because vinegar won't always react to lower levels noticeably, where CLR does react. It bubbles up in white foam, hard to miss. Also easy to rinse off. It's always good to know if the substrate does have a lot of calcium in it, if only so you don't use it where the calcium will work against you.


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## KING KONG (Oct 24, 2012)

*Ph of 8.2 too high*



Fishfur said:


> For your Neo shrimp, having a high calcium substrate may not be an issue..
> It's always good to know if the substrate does have a lot of calcium in it, if only so you don't use it where the calcium will work against you.


awesome good to know 

well Guess im going sand shopping AGAIN then lol

I already got sand last week for this new project and the bag reads calcium @ 381,000 ppm 

i guess that bag of sand wont work and it buffers at a Ph of 8.2

african cichlids sand i guess is a "NO"
Hmmmmm
this bag might work for sulawesi

On another note has any body seen or tried doing a 75 gallon or bigger shrimp tank ??? (not divided) just as a single section, big open space tank full of shrimps swimming around, like a field of little shrimpletes, where the ground is completely covered and you can't event see the substrate, some feeding on the plants and mosses, while others are graving on the HUGE drift wood in the middle of the tank.

oh i can totally just imagine a snaillevator race going on in the back ground

ahhhhhhhhhhh need to crash soon
ok 
I gotta go crash soon cuz im starting to dream about shrimps 

I gotta get up early for the shrimp meet  its quarter to four already

GRRRRRRR 9 am shrimp meet


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