# Bunch of Newbie Q's



## NVES (Apr 21, 2010)

Good day all,

Just for the record I'm not a complete newbie, and I have done lots of research, but none-the-less I still have some pretty basic questions and I'm hoping you can help me out.

Here's a little background on my setup - 150 gallon (48"x30"x24"), with eshopps wet/dry filter and overflow (target 1,000 GPH), pool filter sand, driftwood, and the stocking plans are a community tank (lots of tetras and barbs), with lots of plants (basic vals, moss ball, diandra, baby tears).
Currently the tank is without water (next step).

1. How far into the 'cycling' process does a new tank need to be before I can add plants?

2. Air pump - I need to purchase an air pump but I don't know which one. I'm looking at running 2 24" bubble wands and 1-2 small air stones (in sump). Can you please suggest an appropriately sized air pump?

3. Plant question - Vals + Flourish? I've heard mixed results, I do plan on using Flourish to help the plants along, but I'm also looking at putting in several vals to add height and the 'look' I'm going for. Should I avoid using Flourish or use something else?

4. Where to purchase plants? I'm still building my stocking list, but I do know that I'm not going to pay the outrageous prices at Al's for all of my plants. I stumbled across this website last night http://www.aquariumplants.com/ - their prices seem very reasonable, any report on their quality?

I'm sure I'll have more questions, but we'll save those for another day. 
I would greatly appreciate your help and advice.

Thanks,
Aaron


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## Fish_Man (Apr 9, 2010)

NVES said:


> Good day all,
> 
> Just for the record I'm not a complete newbie, and I have done lots of research, but none-the-less I still have some pretty basic questions and I'm hoping you can help me out.
> 
> ...


Wow!! Nice 150g tank.

1)No clue.
I personally add my plants (just java moss so far) when I setup the tank cycled or not.

2)I would suggest the tetra whisper, hasn't fail me yet and its actually somewhat SILENT compare to others. Size?? Tetra Whisper 100. I find it if you get a bigger one its less noisy since its not working the pump so hard

3)No clue

4)I would buy it off people in this forum. A lot of them are really nice too! Also yes online will do too if you have the patient to wait for the shipment to come.


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

NVES said:


> 1. How far into the 'cycling' process does a new tank need to be before I can add plants?


You can add plants in immediately.



NVES said:


> 2. Air pump - I need to purchase an air pump but I don't know which one. I'm looking at running 2 24" bubble wands and 1-2 small air stones (in sump). Can you please suggest an appropriately sized air pump?


You don't really need an air pump; especially if you plan to keep plants.



NVES said:


> 3. Plant question - Vals + Flourish? I've heard mixed results, I do plan on using Flourish to help the plants along, but I'm also looking at putting in several vals to add height and the 'look' I'm going for. Should I avoid using Flourish or use something else?


Are you referring to Flourish Excel? Flourish is just a trace mix. Regardless, using either in a 150g tank will be quite expensive in the long run, so I would recommend that you use bulk chemicals if you are planning to fertilize.

As for the Flourish Excel issue, you can try using it; some people say that it does not affect Vallisneria, while other times, it does.



NVES said:


> 4. Where to purchase plants? I'm still building my stocking list, but I do know that I'm not going to pay the outrageous prices at Al's for all of my plants. I stumbled across this website last night http://www.aquariumplants.com/ - their prices seem very reasonable, any report on their quality?


Shipping may be a problem, especially if the store is in the US. Unless you have the proper phytosanitary forms, customs can seize your packages and destroy them.

Big Al's is a good place to start, but Menagerie also has excellent selection. Other than that, buying from other people on these forums would be a good choice too.


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## bae (May 11, 2007)

NVES said:


> Here's a little background on my setup - 150 gallon (48"x30"x24"), with eshopps wet/dry filter and overflow (target 1,000 GPH), pool filter sand, driftwood, and the stocking plans are a community tank (lots of tetras and barbs), with lots of plants (basic vals, moss ball, diandra, baby tears).


You may want to buy Diana Walstad's book 'Ecology of the Planted Aquarium' for some excellent insights and good advice about the whole concept of planted tanks.

It sounds like a really wonderful project, but you should be aware that the most important factor is lighting. A deep tank needs more intense light to get to the bottom, especially for low growing plants like some you mention. You should decide on your lighting before you select your plants.

I love large tanks with small fish. There are a number of tiny, beautiful newly available rasboras that you might want to consider, too, as well as the 'blue eye' (Pseudomugil) group of rainbow fish. You'll probably want to add some algae-eating fish like the Siamese algae eater and some Otocinclus catfish or bushy-nose plecos. A school of one or two species of Corydoras catfish will add interest to the lower levels of the tank and are a pleasure to watch.



NVES said:


> Currently the tank is without water (next step).
> 
> 1. How far into the 'cycling' process does a new tank need to be before I can add plants?


Plant heavily right from the start with inexpensive, fast growing plants as well as the more expensive slower growers. You can remove the fast growers as the other plants fill in. This will prevent an outbreak of algae as the tank develops. A deep tank is a pain to work in unless you have very long arms. Plant it when it's half full.

A well planted tank doesn't need to be cycled -- the plants will take up the ammonia unless you dump in a huge fish load all at once.



NVES said:


> 2. Air pump - I need to purchase an air pump but I don't know which one. I'm looking at running 2 24" bubble wands and 1-2 small air stones (in sump). Can you please suggest an appropriately sized air pump?


You don't need air pumps if the filter is circulating the water. Not much oxygen is absorbed from the bubbles -- air pumps mostly work by circulating water past the surface.

You'll need a fairly powerful pump to get much air to that depth, should you decide to go with an air pump. if you feel you need more circulation, a powerhead with a sponge filter may be more effective. If you plan to add CO2, excess circulation will defeat it.

Are you coming from a saltwater background? Sumps aren't generally used in freshwater tanks -- they serve no purpose unless, e.g. you have large herbivorous fish and you put the plants in the sump. People with experience in reef tanks often go for the high tech approach, but you should consider the low tech one, which can give you good results with less money and effort.

A well planted tank needs minimal filtration, since the plants are the biological filter. Filtration required is mostly mechanical, to remove debris, and to circulate the water to prevent stagnant areas around the plants, and to exchange gases at the surface.



NVES said:


> 3. Plant question - Vals + Flourish? I've heard mixed results, I do plan on using Flourish to help the plants along, but I'm also looking at putting in several vals to add height and the 'look' I'm going for. Should I avoid using Flourish or use something else?


Vals do well in Toronto water and there are many attractive kinds.

The whole issue of fertilizing depends on so many factors. Plant require light, nutrients and CO2. Under moderate light and moderate stocking levels, the plants may get enough nutrients from the fish and from water changes. If you start driving plant growth with intense light, it may be necessary to add fertilizers or CO2. You can also fertilize by putting a piece of solid fertilizer in the substrate under plants that are mainly root feeders, like Cryptocoryne spp. and Echinodorus spp (Amazon sword plants). Some people, including Walstad, use a layer of soil under the substrate for long term release of mineral nutrients.

Again, the answer is "it depends" -- on lighting, species of plants, fish stocking levels, etc.



NVES said:


> 4. Where to purchase plants? I'm still building my stocking list, but I do know that I'm not going to pay the outrageous prices at Al's for all of my plants. I stumbled across this website last night http://www.aquariumplants.com/ - their prices seem very reasonable, any report on their quality?


I concur that Menagerie is a great place to buy good plants, but you can get good plants at good prices (sometimes free) from members of this board, and at club auctions, etc. Menagerie can order plants for you -- they buy from many suppliers.



NVES said:


> I'm sure I'll have more questions, but we'll save those for another day.
> I would greatly appreciate your help and advice.


There are several ways to have a successful planted tank. Some are 'high tech' or 'high input' -- they use intense lighting, which demands fertilizing, addition of CO2, and constant pruning and thinning. Some are 'low tech' or 'low input' -- they use low to moderate lighting, less or no fertilizing, less or no CO2, and require little intervention to keep looking good. The important thing is to keep growth factors (inputs) in balance, or you can end up with unhealthy plants and algae problems. Some plants are better suited to one regime or another.

Again, I recommend Walstad's book, even if you don't follow her system, to gain an understanding of the biology and chemistry of a planted tank. You can order it from Amazon.


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## NVES (Apr 21, 2010)

Hi,
Thanks for all the info.

Well I now have water in the tank and the filter is running. I plan on letting it run for a week or two, then do a 75% water change at which point I'll add plants. From there I'll let it run it's course until the tank is cycled. 
I plan on swishing the new tank with the sponge from my daughter's 10 gallon tank (already cycled). This will hopefully speed up the cycling process.

I know an air pump isn't a requirement, but I like the look of it. So I've ordered a Hagen Optima. CO2 is NOT in the plans.

I played around with an order from aquarium plants and the shipping was outrageous - so I'll be keeping an eye open in the For Sale sections, and hopefully get into Menagerie to check out their selection.

I'm going to create another thread as a journal and to discuss stocking lists (fish and plants).

No saltwater background here, I only went with the sump as it was cheaper, requires less maintenance, and gives me options in the future - ie. if I ever decide to try my hand at a saltwater tank.

Thanks,
Aaron


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## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

*I know an air pump isn't a requirement, but I like the look of it. So I've ordered a Hagen Optima. CO2 is NOT in the plans.
*

Good way to retard plant growth. You'll have even less available co2 if you use an airpump

*I played around with an order from aquarium plants and the shipping was outrageous - so I'll be keeping an eye open in the For Sale sections, and hopefully get into Menagerie to check out their selection.*

Menagerie always has good cheap plants.

*I'm going to create another thread as a journal and to discuss stocking lists (fish and plants).*



*No saltwater background here, I only went with the sump as it was cheaper, requires less maintenance, and gives me options in the future - ie. if I ever decide to try my hand at a saltwater tank.*

Again, all you're doing with a sump on a planted tank is increasing surface area and depleting carbon dioxide.

Carbon is plant motor oil. Without motor oil you can add all the gasoline (in the form of plant food) that you want. Your engine won't crank over.

As a person who kills most plants, but in theory, seems to know what he's doing (weird eh?) I'd suggest starting out with Anubias barteri, Java fern, Crypt Wendtii, and normal Val.

I'd personally start with maybe $50 worth of Anubias because it's so forgiving.. You can cut all it's leaves off and just leave the stem and root system and it will attempt to come back with new leaves. I also think it is the nicest looking of aquatic plants.

http://www.aquariumplantsandsupplies.com/images/anubias gold.jpg

The entire top section here is anubias.

There are numerous kinds available. The large leaf Barteri is my favourite and if you get a healthy one they usually grab on right away and shoot out a giant leaf every week, even in a crappy lighting no fert no co2 tank.


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