# transparent leaves



## okoolo (Nov 1, 2009)

Hi, I'm cycling a 15g (fish-less) and my plants (not sure the name) are dying(transparent leaves). I also get some sort of algae ...

I have dual coralife t5 24 inch lights for about 14h/day . I also add flourish excel every day and nutrafin plant gro once a week

any ideas what algae it is and what should I do to help my plants?
I was thinking of buying bunch of supplements like iron, phosphate etc ..


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

You plants appear to be Hygrophila polysperma.

What is the wattage on the T5 bulb? Your photoperiod of 14 hours seems to be on the long side as well (ideally, you would want 8-12 hours, at most).

You will not need to buy more iron supplements, since you are already adding that with the Nutrafin Plant Gro. As you did not mention any other dosing apart from that and the Excel, I assume you are not dosing any macronutrients.

What levels are your nitrates and phosphates? The algae you have appears to be BGA.


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## okoolo (Nov 1, 2009)

lighting: 2 t5 bulbs 21 watts each ... on a low side I guess.. 

as to nitrates, level is pretty low (about 10) as I'm in the nitrite spike stage of cycling..

phosphate level: no idea , wouldn't even know how to check ..


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

how long have the plants been in there? Looks like physical damage to me.


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## okoolo (Nov 1, 2009)

couple weeks

the leaves are so weak & transparent that every water move seems to get few off the stems ..


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## gucci17 (Oct 11, 2007)

14hrs/day is too much. I would bring it down to 8hrs for now.

Looks like you have cyano bacteria aka blue green slime algae. A 3 day blackout worked for me in the past. But looking at the shape your plants are in, some of them may not make it in a blackout. You can always look into antibiotics. 

Your lighting isn't bad for a 15gal. Do you plan on adding co2 or dosing ferts later on? If not, I would think once you have some fish establish themselves in your tank, it would help balance things out. 

Glad you're going with the fishless cycle.


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

okoolo said:


> lighting: 2 t5 bulbs 21 watts each ... on a low side I guess..





gucci17 said:


> Your lighting isn't bad for a 15gal. Do you plan on adding co2 or dosing ferts later on? If not, I would think once you have some fish establish themselves in your tank, it would help balance things out.


Actually, I would say that okoolo has high lighting. Keep in mind that T5 bulbs are quite a bit more efficient than T8 or T12 bulbs, so 2.8 WPG of T5 lighting is quite a lot.

Fertilization will be a must after the BGA is under control. Since your nitrates seem OK for now, I would work on getting those CO2 levels to optimal (30 ppm) levels.



gucci17 said:


> 14hrs/day is too much. I would bring it down to 8hrs for now.


Definitely, this would be the first step.



okoolo said:


> phosphate level: no idea , wouldn't even know how to check ..


You can buy a phosphate test kit for this purpose.


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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

Excel can stand in for CO2 as long as you don't have inverts in there. 15G is kind of big to run Excel in place of CO2 though. In the long run, it will cost you. Stem plants need a better gravel. Since your tank is not an established tank, there's absolutely nothing in the gravel. So root grown is at a minimun. From your picture, there are other plants on top of your trouble plants. This looks to me like it's not getting enough light. You might want to trime the top plant or move your trouble plant to another spot.
Also, as others said, 14 hours of light is too much. Cut it down to 8 hours. That extra 6 hours only benefit the algae. You can later on turn it up to 10 hours.
If you are using excel, squire the Excel at the alage when you are dosing. It will kill off the spot where you squirt.

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## RESONANCE (Oct 24, 2009)

+1 on gravel

Yeah, thats the wrong type of gravel/ substrate for plants... do abit more research into aquarium plant substrates and you'll be able to chose better. I would suggest flourite or other similarly sized gravel for the longrun. IMO, the pebbles you're using are far too large to support rooting plant life. Roots don't just anchor aquatic plants to the gravel, they help plants get minerals and trace elements from the substrate as well. So a good substrate will help your aquarium plants in the long run.


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## okoolo (Nov 1, 2009)

would it help if I drained all the water and put a layer of fluorite substrate on the bottom and my old gravel on top? or meybe vice versa? I was thinking of separating them with a plastic sheet full of holes to make sure they don't mix..


it'll probably interrupt my cycle but so be it ...


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

okoolo said:


> would it help if I drained all the water and put a layer of fluorite substrate on the bottom and my old gravel on top? or meybe vice versa? I was thinking of separating them with a plastic sheet full of holes to make sure they don't mix..


If you are going to drain the water, you might as well swap your current substrate for an all Fluorite substrate instead of having it mixed. If you put the Fluorite on the bottom and the gravel on top (or vice versa), they will eventually mix. Even using a plastic sheet full of holes will not prevent the gravel and Fluorite from mixing.



okoolo said:


> it'll probably interrupt my cycle but so be it ...


Changing the gravel will not likely interrupt your cycle.


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## RESONANCE (Oct 24, 2009)

Yeah, I agree with Darkblade. If you change it in 1 shot/day I don't think it'll interrupt your cycle too much. Remember to rinse the flourite first though. Other wise your tank will be really cloudy for a week or two - and that will finish off your plants. Speaking of which, once you have the flourite in you might think of getting new plants altogether - after you tank has fully cycled. I'm not sure if your current plants will survive since they're already in really bad shape (the ones with transparent leaves).

Do a bit of research into CO2 (DIY) and fertilization as well. After your tank has cycled, those will ensure a lush and healthy growth.


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## jimmyjam (Nov 6, 2007)

***** is totally right, it should all be good, but do yourself a favor and get the finer black flourite or eco complete at that. just from experience, I hate flourite red.. its freaken soo ugly, so fat to work with and if your growing fine plants like hc cuba glosso etc , its hard to root down. And ss just described, its dusty and hard to wash. I have recently been trying this slow release azoo substrate fert, it has been in my tank for just under a yr now and it has been working amazingly with my ADA wannabe substrate (nisso aquasoil), just more options if your looking.


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## gucci17 (Oct 11, 2007)

If you're really worried about breaking your cycle, you can keep some of your gravel in a pantyhose after you replace your gravel with something else. E-complete is a good choice and I would think one bag is enough for you. You can find that for around $30 at most stores. OR just start from scratch again  since you're still starting out anyways.


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## RESONANCE (Oct 24, 2009)

If you do decide to get new plants, you might want to start with begginers plants like some amazons or some anubias. They are harder to kill (though not impossible). Then gradually get more exotic plants and graduate up to stem plants (the ones you have now). Stem plants are actually quite hard to keep if you're just starting out in the hobby. They require quite a bit of knowledge in using CO2 and different types of fertilization as well as good lighting. Even for the most knowledgeable, the bottom leaves of stem plants sometimes fall off.

Go to www.tropica.com and take a look at the different types of plants they have there - I recommend this site as they rate how easy or difficult the plant is to keep. It also gives you information on the requirements of each plant.

Lastly, remember to have fun! Don't let the information overwhelm you. Its out there for you to learn and have a fruitful time in your hobby!


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## bae (May 11, 2007)

I'd recommend vallisneria as a good plant. There are several kinds, they do extremely well in Toronto water, they root easily and multiply by runners. I like the looks of them, myself, but I seldom see them in the pics of glorious planted tanks. Maybe because they are too easy and fast growing? At any rate, their roots will keep even a deep sand substrate in good condition.

Btw, don't worry about cycling -- a planted tank is equivalent to a cycled one. Plants suck up the ammonia faster than the bacteria can, and don't release nitrate. They also provide a large surface for bacteria and other aerobic organisms. Nobody ever heard of cycling before the fish-only aquarium became popular some decades ago. Everybody had some plants in their tanks in those days, and they were the biofilter.


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