# Seeking Your Guidance;



## OneLastDecree (Nov 13, 2012)

Hello everyone,

I am new here; however, a long time lurker. 
Finally, I took the plunge upon extensive research.

Moving on, I purchased a tank and started the fishless-cycle on the 11th of November.
I know for a fact that I would like to create a South American Amazon Biotope. 
I want everything strictly around this theme; including, plants, fish, water properties, and more.

As I am new to the game, I was wondering if I could get a little advice on my hypothetical setup. 
I created this tank based on my independent research and wish to run it by the experts.

The following will state the basic setup I currently have;

Aquarium: 20 G Long.
Filter: Two x HOB Power Filters. [Each rated at 100GPH; equals 200GPH in total]
Heater: None. [My condominium is always at a regulated temperature and the water is steady at 25 Celsius or 75 Fahrenheit]
Power Heads: Two x Power Heads. [Each rated at 150GPH; equals 300GPH in total]

I will create another thread in the future to verify my livestock.

Thank you all in advance for your time and patience. 
Hope to hear from you all soon.

I apologize about the length of the post.


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

I am used to seeing most south american's at about 6 inches long and up. Unless im missing alot of fish that are much smaller, a 20 gallon sounds way too small from my knowledge.

That also sounds like alot of circulation, might be more than needed. This tank sounds more like an african to me


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## Tino (Sep 10, 2012)

Hi Decree, I'm inclined to agree (poet and don't know it!) with Pyrro...

You may create too much of a current, if you can reduce the flow that would help.
As for your tank size, yes it is a little small but all that means is you won't be able to keep lots of fish, if you're ok with only a few smaller guys you should be fine.
Also, despite your ambient temp in the condo, I would still go for a heater, as most SA species enjoy slightly warmer water than 75F (between 78-80 depending on your livestock)
Looking forward to hearing more about your pan for fish.


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## OneLastDecree (Nov 13, 2012)

Thank you for the responses;

Well, my power heads have not been installed yet. 
I was thinking about creating a DIY Spray Bar to diffuse the current throughout the tank. 
If anything, not even bother with it.

The size of the fish will not be that big. 
I guess I will talk about my livestock;

Fish: 
Five x Panda Corydoras
Five x Hatchet Fish [Still Contemplating]

These are not set in stone; however, they are all small fish and I know I may be fully stocking the tank. 
That's the reason why I chose to run two HOB Filters for the extra Bio.

The temperature for Panda Corydoras are 16 - 28 Celcius. 
They prefer the colder streams and canals of the Amazon.

Thanks again for the advice.


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

Panda cories are very small, about 1.5 inches max if that

just looked up hatchet and they are smaller fish also, the biggest are 3.5 inches

Based on this info, one filter would be good, I would recommend aquaclear 50 myself.

Being river fish Im sure they would appreciate extra current so I would recommend one power head.

I also recommend having a heater for just in case, 25 c in a home is very warm. Im assuming you dont know the temp in your home and just noticed the tank stayed at 25 for a while. I believe that because 25 is close to normal room temp, it will take a while for it to drop more.

The heater will only turn on when the temp drops in the tank, otherwise it uses no power and its best to have it for just in case and greatly helps keep things the same all the time.


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

Oh and make sure you have a full hood, it seems hatchet are flying fish.


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## characinfan (Dec 24, 2008)

+1 on hatchets being crazy jumpers and needing a well-sealed lid.

Hatchets hang out almost exclusively in the top inch of water and cories hang out mostly on the bottom. Are you planning on getting any fish that would spend time in the middle of your aquarium, like tetras or pencilfish? If it were me, I'd go for either of these instead of the hatchet fish. 

Echinodorus sword plants are from the Amazon and they look nice.


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## pat3612 (Jan 29, 2008)

I would not get hatchets they are not really easy fish plus they need an established aquarium they do jump often


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

I can vouch for pencilfish as being neither large, or jumpers and fun to keep. Get to about 2 inches long. Known as Beckford's, aka Golden Pencilfish, though there is at least one other type that is less common. You need some plants and decor, like wood or rocks, to break up lines of sight, as the boys are a bit territorial. Though they do not actually fight with each other, breaking up sight lines helps reduce stress on them, as they aren't constantly seeing other males, and can hide if they want to.

They do a fascinating dominance dance now and then which is wonderful to watch. Unlike many other fishes, it is not hard to tell male from female. Boys are a lot darker in the upper body, with red fins and a longitudinal side stripe. Girls are much paler in the upper body, same stripe, but little fin colour. So you can ask for a couple of males and four or five females, which is a good ratio for them. They swim at all levels, though mainly the middle. They seem to like most foods, but really appreciate some live stuff, like micro worms.

Not fussy in general, pretty active fish. During the male's display, their red fins absolutely glow, like fireworks, plus a vivid red patch on their undersides, just in front of the anal fin that glows so brightly it looks almost as though it might explode ! No violence, they truly don't fight or even nip at each other. They just shine their colours and wriggle around beside each other until somebody wins.. not sure how they figure that though. Mine did their dance minutes after I put them in my Q tank and kept it up for at least, if I recall correctly, ten minutes or more. I think I got about five minutes of video. I didn't know what on earth they were about at the time and thought at first they were sick, but they were just staking out their territorial claims.

Can't wait for my new computer so I can finally post the video I got of the dance they did.


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## OneLastDecree (Nov 13, 2012)

Thank you all for the responses; 
My research on hatchet's always told me they were picky fish and very hard to care for. 
That is why I was contemplating. 


Regardless, the Pencilfish just went on my Maybe list.


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## OneLastDecree (Nov 13, 2012)

pyrrolin said:


> I also recommend having a heater for just in case, 25 c in a home is very warm. Im assuming you dont know the temp in your home and just noticed the tank stayed at 25 for a while. I believe that because 25 is close to normal room temp, it will take a while for it to drop more.
> 
> The heater will only turn on when the temp drops in the tank, otherwise it uses no power and its best to have it for just in case and greatly helps keep things the same all the time.


So, I had a question.

My condominium building is regulated at 25 Celcius.
To be honest, I never turn on the heater because it is way too warm as it is.

The water in my tank has been sitting around for a month.
Without a heater in the tank, it stays at 25 Celcius.

Now; should I invest in a heater or a chiller. 
Because, the heater hasn't been turned on in the building yet and when winter hits, it will be alot warmer in the unit.

I am a bit worried.


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## characinfan (Dec 24, 2008)

I lived in that kind of apartment for many years. What's helpful is to get an appropriately-sized heater with a thermostat that you can set. That way, if the temperature falls too low -- say, if the boiler fails, or if you have to open windows in your place -- it will come on, and it will remain off the rest of the time.

There's no need to invest in a chiller system for Amazonian fish, though. Amazonian fish are river fish and can survive some temperature fluctuation much better than fish from large lakes or oceans. That's not to say that if your apartment is 30 degrees that you shouldn't do anything about it at all. Seriously, I had to put ice cubes in my tank some springs, when the ancient heating system at my old place was still on but it was really warm outside! (Some people will advise against ice cubes, but the slow addition of cooler water can help bring the temperature down on those rare occasions, as can the application of a freezer pack to the outside of the aquarium. --> Fish can sense temperature and they can and do go to the area of the tank that has the temperature that they like).

I am speaking here from 20 years' experience with the same 2 headstanders (basically like giant, plant-eating pencilfish) here. My guys are still healthy and going strong.


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

I was thinking the same, shouldnt need a chiller but have a heater just in case, chillers cost a lot to.

If the temp goes up in spring, one thing that can help is a water change with cooler water.

and worst case, make declorinated ice cubes


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## OneLastDecree (Nov 13, 2012)

Great; thank you for the heads up. 
I think I will use two x 50 W heaters and plug in a single Power Head. 


For the chilling aspect; I will take both of your suggestions and use it when my unit reaches unexpected temperatures. 

Thanks again.


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## Tino (Sep 10, 2012)

Excellent advice (as usual).
For livestock I would actually recommend replacing hatchet fish with either tetras or pencil fish.
Since your tank is not the largest I would say to go for some neon tetras with your corys, they will add some stunning colour and if you get enough, will actively school together.


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

I also live in hell.. aka, my apartment. Very hot, winter and summer, only spring and some brief part of autumn are pleasantly mild. Heat is too much.. my heaters almost never come on, but I have had to get fans to cool the tanks in summer and now again in winter too. It's just too warm in here ! If I leave the balcony door open, and it gets too cold or it gets very windy, then I've got another issue, the heaters can't cope with that amount of temperature difference and the tanks get cold. sigh...

Consider fans for cooling.. small personal ones will do the job. Automotive ones will do it too..the kind that plug into the dashboard, just change the plug to a 12 volt adapter. Many use computer fans if they have the skills to hook one up. need a 12 volt adapter for most computer fans too, I think. 

Not a computer geek myself, so not positive on that at all. But I found an eight inch table fan with a clip clamp set up at one end would cool my 30 G down ten degrees in a few hours, blowing straight down on the water. Blowing across cools less, so you can find the angle that works best for what your conditions are. Only problem is finding fans this time of year.. except computer types of course.


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## OneLastDecree (Nov 13, 2012)

I laughed when you said you lived in hell. 
Ha. 

I can so see that happen to me though. 
I have some computer fans and such.
I guess all my fans will have to come out from storage.
Blah.


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

Yep.. sad fact is, I have fans running all year round in my bedroom because it is so warm, a ceiling fan and a tower fan by the bed I can adjust for extra cooling. It's nuts.. before I had the tanks, I used to leave the balcony door cracked open almost year 'round, for fresh air and to cool off, it's such a waste. But we have no thermostats, so can't adjust the heat.


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## OneLastDecree (Nov 13, 2012)

Yeah; I know what your going through. 
My old apartment was like that. 

When I moved into my condo; management thought it would be nice to use our maintenance fees towards unwanted heating. 
I see no reason why they even installed thermostats into each unit. 
We don't need them.


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## pat3612 (Jan 29, 2008)

A heater is a good idea but your fish will adapt as long as its not a sudden drop in temp all at once. Unless your fish are very delicate. You should start off with easy fish pencil fish are an excellent choice.


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## OneLastDecree (Nov 13, 2012)

Even though it will be a while before I can stock my tank, as it is still in the fishless-cycle, I will probably stock the tank with 5 Panda Corydora's for now. Then decide which fish to add.


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