# NO3:PO4 testing



## badmedicine (Oct 27, 2012)

I am starting up my tank and recently purchased a RED SEA test kit for Nitrate and phosphate. Inside the directions was a concept that RED SEA believes is important in controlling algae... but also in the growth and coloration of corals. They believe that corals should be supplemented for EITHER growth OR coloration (NOT both)because of the symbiotic relationship with its Zooanthellae(sp?).

I was just wondering what YOU feel about this idea a.k.a. NO3O4:X dosing in order to facilitate either response.


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## wildexpressions (May 3, 2010)

badmedicine said:


> I am starting up my tank and recently purchased a RED SEA test kit for Nitrate and phosphate. Inside the directions was a concept that RED SEA believes is important in controlling algae... but also in the growth and coloration of corals. They believe that corals should be supplemented for EITHER growth OR coloration (NOT both)because of the symbiotic relationship with its Zooanthellae(sp?).
> 
> I was just wondering what YOU feel about this idea a.k.a. NO3O4:X dosing in order to facilitate either response.


That is an interesting topic for discussion for sure. I think there is no question it is a valid consideration but it hugely simplifying the concept to make it just a ratio of no3 vs po4 issue. Even if it could be broken down to such a simple ratio it still could not be applied as a blanket to corals in general.

Red Sea produces a carbon additive aimed at eliminating both in what they describe as a balanced way which strikes me as marketing crap attempting to differentiate their product from other carbon sources. http://www.redseafish.com/index.aspx?id=4366

Here is a thread that links no3/po4 to light and alk http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2253547

Not sure of we are allowed to post links to other forums but I'm not looking to redirect people to that site to talk. Id rather the discussion took place here. Is it ok to link like this?


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## ReefABCs (Nov 10, 2012)

So I read through most of the RC thread. I'm now more concerned with my sand bed at 2-3 in average.

A couple of my SPS started to loose color recently.
I shut down the GFO and did some water changes. Color started to come back but its slow on those. 


My tank is still new 5 mths so,
-should I vacuum the sand with water changes 
-or maybe start to scoop some out and reduce the depth 
-or move the sand aro where I can and increase the depth to 4+ inches in areas
-or do nothing? 
Alk has been from 7.7 to 9.3, mag ranged from 1080-1400.
When mag was lower I think I might have dosed to much to fast and that's when I noticed the sps start to fade. But I also increased the GFO qty so don't know when you do more that one change


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## rburns24 (Jan 31, 2011)

Vacuuming the sand bed with water changes is always a good thing to do. I use a sand bed of 1" and find it easier to keep clean than a deeper one.

Your Mg at 1400 shouldn't be causing problems, although I would let it fall to around 1300 and keep it there. The increase in GFO is the most likely culprit in the lightening of the coral color. I use very little GFO even though I feed the fish and coral fairly heavily.

Your alkalinity seems not very stable. Try to have it not swing more than .5 dkh per day within a given range. This is in my opinion, the most important parameter. Once it is stable, keeping CA and MG steady is fairly easy. Hope this helps.


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## wildexpressions (May 3, 2010)

the biggest issue I see over and over when it comes to parameters is that it is rare to see anyone define their goals prior to choosing their path. The same issue exists regarding advice given. How can anyone give another person advice on how to operate their aquarium with out first having a detailed understanding of their goals?

IMO this is where the vast majority of the confusion comes from. The setup's to run a thriving full mixed reef differ substantially from what is required to operate a colored stick farm for example. 

One of my systems primary goals is a full mixed reef with low to almost non existent maintenance. I have another system that grow sticks and is used to color up and display a broad spectrum of corals. Another grows zoas,palys, plating monti's and chalices as quickly as possible. Each of those systems consists of multiple aquariums and while the chemistry is shared the lighting for each aquarium differs based on what is in it.

My point is that reading and applying various changes is largely meaningless unless you first do two things. Define the purpose of the system you are setting up and then establish a base line to operate from so you have a reference to judge the effect of the changes you make.


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## rburns24 (Jan 31, 2011)

i.e. Look at it the way you do...


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## ReefABCs (Nov 10, 2012)

thx rburns 24,

I always thought cleaning the sand in a reef system was taboo. Maybe that is a DSB only? I will try it on the next water change. 

I think I will try and let the alk lower and try to stay in the range of 7.5-8 for a while and see what happens. My PO4 , No3 and No2 are all reading zero with Hanna and Salifert. 

One other thing that might have been part of the color decline I didn't do a single water change for the 1st 4 mths. of the new tank. I started doing some changes in May when I noticed the color decline. 

For me I want a mixed reef with Fish, LPS and SPS for the most part. Running 250W x2 MH Phoenix and T5's x4 about 12 inch from water level.


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## rburns24 (Jan 31, 2011)

Most people do a 5-10% water change per week. It replenishes trace elements and helps get rid of phosphates, etc. a bit. I think that once you have been doing them regularly for a while, you'll notice a difference in your tank.

You're right about the taboo. It applies to DSB only. Adjusting alk to 7.5-8 would be good also, as that is the same as NSW.


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## wildexpressions (May 3, 2010)

ReefABCs said:


> thx rburns 24,
> 
> I always thought cleaning the sand in a reef system was taboo. Maybe that is a DSB only? I will try it on the next water change.


DSB's are a best described as a discipline (depth, grain size, seeding them,time to mature) and part of their maintenance is to disturb them very little. Anything that doesn't follow the discipline quite closely is just a sand bed so there is no reason not to clean it.



> I think I will try and let the alk lower and try to stay in the range of 7.5-8 for a while and see what happens. My PO4 , No3 and No2 are all reading zero with Hanna and Salifert.


For many of us stability is close to the most important thing we can give our aquarium. Most corals will adapt to less then perfect water and after an adjustment period will do well. An ATO can make a pretty big difference.



> One other thing that might have been part of the color decline I didn't do a single water change for the 1st 4 mths. of the new tank. I started doing some changes in May when I noticed the color decline.


 did you dose and maintain your calc/alk/mag during that time?



> For me I want a mixed reef with Fish, LPS and SPS for the most part. Running 250W x2 MH Phoenix and T5's x4 about 12 inch from water level.


 how deep is your tank? Mixed reefs can be pretty easy if you always keep it in mind that is your goal and choose your corals, fish and support critters with that goal in mind. There are lots of corals that do not play well together, some of the leathers and many of the SPS's for instance.

I often suggest to sit down and plan the final aquarium just like you would when planning a new aquarium build and then slowly over a period of 18 months build it. IME impulse buys rarely work out well for the average full mixed reef. That said, if you have the money and time you can build a system that will handle most anything. It is all a matter of choices.


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## ReefABCs (Nov 10, 2012)

Tank is 28lx30hx24w and I have been dosing cal and Alk since . I have been adding corals and keeping the things stable has been the hardest parts so far.
PH	Calcium	KH Alk	Mag

Jan-13	7.8-7.9	280 
Jan-19	8.09-8.1	380	8.9	1155
Jan-28	8.19	335	10.9	1050
Jan-30	8.19	355 1110
Feb-07	8.19	410	9.4	1050
Feb-15 480	10.2	1150
Feb-28	7.9	550	6.6	
Mar-03	7.93	530	8	1150
Mar-05 7.7	
Mar-09 7.7	
Mar-11	7.99	500	8.9	1120
Mar-16	7.97	470	8	1120
Mar-20	8.08	450	7.7	1120
Mar-23	8.04 
Mar-24	7.98 
Mar-27	8.06	430	7.7	1080
Mar-31	7.96	420	8.3	1100
Apr-07	8.03	425	8.6	1110
Apr-08 
Apr-09 1240
Apr-12	8	425	9.3	1320
Apr-21	8.03	420	8.9	1320
May-10	8.16	360	7.7	1140
May-12	8	440	8.5	1400
May-18	8.1 
May-28	8.14	420	8.6	1320

The table does not line up the best cut and paste


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