# Most Unimaginative Tank on any Forum



## Sameer

45 gal restart, I posted this on another forum, so pasting it here.

Here it is. The story continuing from my thread here 
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=260722

My 25 gal, 1st planted tank, all the way back in 2008. Thread is here:
http://www.gtaaquaria.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2631

My DIY 45 gal thread is here: (check last page for my tanks peak setup)
http://www.gtaaquaria.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4052
I read it again after a few years, i just ignored the comments  ehehe Also go to last page for good pics.

So I eventually moved to high tek, diy setup. I had two shop lights pumping 2.9 w/g in my 45 gal tank with diy co2 bottles. I was really happy as everything was growing. Then I saw that there were holes in my plants and my anabius turned white. Later on I found out nutrients were also important. So I ended up buying dry ferts and dosing EI method.

The tank was going really well, loved it, regret not taking pics though. After a little while I got hit with the two worst things to hit a planted tank, U. gibba and Cladophora algae. I battled these two things for a whole year. They killed all my plants and destroyed my tank. In the end, through succession, my tape grass took over the tank along with clado. Both the algae and the carnivorous plant preferred healthy plant conditions meaning normal plants couldnt out compete them. Nor would high co2 or blackouts do anything. After a year I tore out the entire tank, threw out all my tape grass (buckets worth) and washed my tank and gravel in close to boiling water. I dried the gravel, threw it outside in my balcony in -10c weather for a few days and started over.

I tried scaping but it didnt work. I wanted wood and different levels of elevation. In the end I got rid of the mopani because it took up too much space and didnt look good. My lvl floor didnt work out either, Im not sure, they werent high enough and I just dont know how to do it.

So I loaded the tank with a few plants, didnt even spread them apart in the beginning. Went well and from there on forward its been like that since. My plants take over the tank and theres no space to scape. I feel bad throwing away bags of plants away. I sell them at low prices but as soon as someone hears "high light", no one bites.

So previously I used to take pics at random times. Recently, I take pics every month, I have a huge folder with mini folders for each month. My old HD crashed at lost a few months of pics.

My old setup at its prime. Dont know the name of the nice stem plant in the back left.









Old tank before teardown









New tank setup









Difference in water temperature









So it begins....









July 2011









Aug 2011









Sep 2011









Nov 2011









May 13, 2012
















throwing away buckets worth









May 27, 2012









June 17, 2012









July 1, 2012









July 30, 2012


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## Sameer

Aug 17, 2012

















Sep 3, 2012









Sep 24, 2012

















Dec 8, 2012









Jan 1, 2013









Feb 5, 2013









Feb 15, 2013

















And a few random images from the timeline


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## Sameer

Update from last week

It seems that my diatom and bga are receding, but they are still pretty bad. 45% of my front glass gets covered with dia and then bga within 7 days. MY plants have been growing pretty fast so the algae has not had a chance to attach itself. the slow growing leaves though, stand no chance  Im getting fed up with this. These two things have been taking over for 2 or so months now. Im thinking its the bulbs.

Clipped lots of dd and 2 stems of aromatica. Its pissing me off, the aro is boring green. When I had normal T8s, it was slight yellow with purple undersides.


































Used a new method to take pics

















Played around with settings in photoshop


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## Canadianbettas

All that lush growth.... wowzas


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## Greg_o

I think there's a mistake with the thread title, not sure if you can edit or maybe a mod could. Beautiful lush plants and great shots. Incredible collection.


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## Jiinx

I agree. Your knowledge and love for plants is so evident. Beautiful plants and the scape is so natural and lush!!


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## Sameer

Thank you guys 

Im just waiting to fill up my tank now, give alge no chance. Thats also the reason I havent sold much for the past few months. The plants grow so fast and taken over so quick that Ive had many expansive, high demanding plants disappear. It is disappointing but at the same time shows that stuff is thriving. 

I just sold my 15" Hygrophilia Corymbosa for $5. I really need the space as this guy was taking almost quarter of my tank. Width wise and height wise he covered every inch.


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## Sameer

Heres an update. Just did water change so water a lil cloudy. I moved all the tall stem plants to the back. The problem is, I have no space to put the clippings even though there seems to be space. On top of that, I have 1 or 2 slow growing stem plants that are in the shadow and will perish. I dont want to move them forward because its a high water flow area. Plus, theres grass and other foreground plants. atm it looks messy, Im waiting till next week, hopefully it looks better.

Crappy pics, I might try taking pics in the evening with a dark room.

Also, Im experimenting with the emersed setup as well. Got indica/rodufolia and DHG. I put a crypt and Ludwigia senegalensis into the same container, they dried out. I think the crypt might survive. I seriously need a big container now that I know my setup somewhat works.


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## Reckon

I wanted to cry when I saw your Jan and Feb 2013 pics. I really feel for ya.

Loved the July 2011 pic. Is that Ammania Gracilis?


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## Sameer

Reckon said:


> I wanted to cry when I saw your Jan and Feb 2013 pics. I really feel for ya.
> 
> Loved the July 2011 pic. Is that Ammania Gracilis?


ehehe I had no space left and it was really messy, so I sold alot of it. Then the next month it looks neat, a few months later, its a mess. Im not good at pruning and making plants stay as a bunch.

Yes it is ammannia garcilis, I recently found out it disappeared  I was so sad, had ammannia for like 2 years. I had one stem left, it was out competed and was under shade. I didnt notice since my ammannia is a weed and I thought it could handle itself. This time it didnt make it 

Thanks for the response


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## Reckon

I had a couple stems in my last set up and A. Gracilis never did well for me. I'm impressed by their color in your tank. They seem like a big plant though. I wonder if they'll be a good replacement for the A. Reineckii currently in my tank, or if they'll be even bigger. I've been thinking of trying them again.

Aromatica seems to be quite the light hog. Mine started turning purple when I got some Leds to compliment the T5Ho system I had going already. I'm still waiting to see how it does. My buddy's is BRIGHT purple. His set up is the same as Jiinx's but he doses more PO4 than most people, about 5ppms worth.


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## Sameer

Reckon said:


> I had a couple stems in my last set up and A. Gracilis never did well for me. I'm impressed by their color in your tank. They seem like a big plant though. I wonder if they'll be a good replacement for the A. Reineckii currently in my tank, or if they'll be even bigger. I've been thinking of trying them again.
> 
> Aromatica seems to be quite the light hog. Mine started turning purple when I got some Leds to compliment the T5Ho system I had going already. I'm still waiting to see how it does. My buddy's is BRIGHT purple. His set up is the same as Jiinx's but he doses more PO4 than most people, about 5ppms worth.


The A Garcilis is weird. Under bright light with no other plants to compete with, it grows big. In shade and tight spots, it grows small and compact. Very nice and hardy plant. Its been the most neglected plant in my tank, its been under shade for weeks, Ive let it float around for a week, never died on me. So back to what I was saying, if there is no competition and you are getting all the light, why waste energy growing so big? Wouldnt you want your offsprings to get that space?

My po4 are at 5 ppm atm (sunday is water change day, today morning i dosed macro). I just started testing phos and nitrates in order to find out whats causing my aromatica to be green and boring. Light bulbs play a factor, but I want to rule everything else first. Could you post pics of your purple aromatica? Ive seen pics of blood red and killer purple colour on the planted tank forum, it seriously makes my hair stand on how the heck they got to that colour.


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## Reckon

I'll see how they look at home, I just did a big trim late last week so they're probably low and not too colorful. A lot of those pics are doctored but I was very surprised in seeing my buddy's plants how purple they can actually get in reality. Mine never seemed to get to point. Just coloring up in the last couple weeks though.


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## Sameer

Reckon said:


> I'll see how they look at home, I just did a big trim late last week so they're probably low and not too colorful. A lot of those pics are doctored but I was very surprised in seeing my buddy's plants how purple they can actually get in reality. Mine never seemed to get to point. Just coloring up in the last couple weeks though.


Yea this is the thread

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=26213

The purple pics are true, the fire red seems photoshopped. 2nd page Tom Barr posted his, so I know his is real. Id die to see that colour. When I had my T8 shoplights on my aro went yellowish with purple undersides. Ever since t5ho, they have been plain green.

Thanks, I guess they will grow by the end of this week, fast growers they are


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## Fishfur

That plant you said you didn't know the name of.. at the left of the pic at the top? Did you mean the one with the slender leaves.. kind of fanned out ? If so, it's Pomatogeton gayi.


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## Sameer

Fishfur said:


> That plant you said you didn't know the name of.. at the left of the pic at the top? Did you mean the one with the slender leaves.. kind of fanned out ? If so, it's Pomatogeton gayi.


Yea the slender one on the left. Really? I checked out googly pics and its like a spineless plant. Where as mine has a weak main stem. But if it is, its frikkin cool. I want it again


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## Fishfur

Based on that pic, I'm fairly sure that's what it is. I have some to sell if you're interested. It does have quite thin stems, leaves are very thin, tend to be orangey or pinky nearer light. One description I read said the leaves can vary in colour not dependent on lighting. I don't know for sure on that, have not had it long enough. 

Leaves are arranged a bit like a flat fan. Think of a peacock's feather - instead of the rather cylindrical way the rotalas are, for example.


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## Sameer

Fishfur said:


> Based on that pic, I'm fairly sure that's what it is. I have some to sell if you're interested. It does have quite thin stems, leaves are very thin, tend to be orangey or pinky nearer light. One description I read said the leaves can vary in colour not dependent on lighting. I don't know for sure on that, have not had it long enough.
> 
> Leaves are arranged a bit like a flat fan. Think of a peacock's feather - instead of the rather cylindrical way the rotalas are, for example.


Id be interested but price with shipping is too much for me. So I guess Ill pass for now.


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## Sameer

HUGE BLOG POST!!!! Im going to try my best getting all the pics in order. Uploading them will take 15 minutes alone. Im very tired because I spent the whole day in the hot balcony and rain doing my succulent DIY project. Not to mention my 2 hour tank maintenance/water change today. Check my hens and chick thread in my sig.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pics cover tank growth from May 6 to June 3rd, 2013.

So here it is, I leave the tank for 2 weeks and it becomes a jungle. The pics dont do justice. Its alot more than the pics show. I also hate how fast the diatom and bga grow. They get on some of my plants too. Im still trying to figure out what the hell is causing this. I did a major water change and prune, made a bucket load of clippings. Im still trying to sell them, but no ones biting. So Im going to end up garbaging them. EDIT: they went to garbage before water change. Theres just no demand up here in Toronto. Shipping here is too expensive. I went to Canada post and their rate for a medium box is $14 and shipping will take 4 to 5 days (I quoted for BC since I had people showing interest from there).

In all this jungly mess I took a heavy loss. I lost my most favourite plant, Ludwigia senegalensis (I JUST FOUND 1 STEM STILL ALIVE YESSSSS!!). I had good 4 to 5 tall stems of them. But against other quick growing plants they were not fast enough. They came under shade and just disappeared. I was shocked, like they really did disappear. They were right in the middle left of the tank, I cant find them anymore. Dam. I also lost a very rare Ludwigia (pilosa) SPHAEROCARPA. I had 2 good flourishing stems and they were my biggest investment returners  I could sell them for $10 easy. But both disappeared as well. I also lost the rarest plant Ive ever had, even rare in terms of PTF, the Ludwigia cf. suffruticosa. It was growing fast as well. Im so sad and disappointed by this. Im happy plants are growing, but I just hate it how big of a difference it is in the growth rate. There have been too many rare species Ive lost over the month. Ive spent some $200 on plants alone from PTF in the past few months. I almost lost the Rotala Macranda 'Japan Red'. But Im really happy I planted a stem in the open before leaving for vacation. Its in rough shape but survived and is growing well in light.

I wonder if anyone even reads this.

My Plan now is:

Get rid of all the plants on the left side. Its a jungle of everything and it looks messy. I dont like it. I think Im going to get rid of Staurogyne Bihar, Ludwigia sp. Rubin and another yellowish plant I dont know the name of. These guys get too big and take up all the space to scape. So Im getting rid of them. I love the rubin. It has amazing colours. Dark blood reds to brilliant purple. I love it. But it grows too dam fast and worst of all, leaves get toooo big.

The next step is to get rid of dwarf sag. Thats an annoying plant. Half a year ago I sold it all and somehow a small piece still stayed. Now its growing like a weed. I also need to get rid of my staurogyne repens. Ive decided I want a DHG carpet. With these 2 plants gone, I can have some space to plant the dhg everywhere.

May 6, 2013









May 12, 2013








Big pic, click to expand.









May 14, 2013









After vacation

























After hack and slash









Selling the clippings.

















May 30, 2013 (not sure if right date, maybe missplaced pic.)









Jun 2, 2013 Today









































Butterfly, they were in shade and took damage. They are growing well now.


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## Fishfur

I can't speak for others, but I read this !.. Btw, Sameer, if you wanted some of that Potamageton [sp?] gayi, I would bring you some when I am back in town to stay. Been away a lot lately, so my tanks have suffered. I have only a few stems of this plant that are in good condition, but there are many others that just need nursing along.

One day when I'm going to Menagerie, I could come by on the way down the DVP. I'd even skip the mileage, because you have been very generous with extra plants I've got from you in the past.

If you want some P. Gayi, PM me.

Hard not to drool over some of these plant and pics !


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## Sameer

Fishfur said:


> I can't speak for others, but I read this !.. Btw, Sameer, if you wanted some of that Potamageton [sp?] gayi, I would bring you some when I am back in town to stay. Been away a lot lately, so my tanks have suffered. I have only a few stems of this plant that are in good condition, but there are many others that just need nursing along.
> 
> One day when I'm going to Menagerie, I could come by on the way down the DVP. I'd even skip the mileage, because you have been very generous with extra plants I've got from you in the past.
> 
> If you want some P. Gayi, PM me.
> 
> Hard not to drool over some of these plant and pics !


Thank you  For now, Im going to skip it. Its a really nice plant and I want it, but its just too fast growing. atm Im trying to get rid of the weedy plants so I can move around and actually try scaping.


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## Fishfur

NP..if you want it later, and I've still got it, you'll be welcome to it.


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## Jiinx

Hey Sameer!
So happy to read an update. I'm so sorry to hear about your plants. I've seen so many plants melt and die on me - it's so frustrating. Especially when you've spent the time and effort to seek these plants out. You'll grow your plants out again. It's a chance to start over and seek new plants and try them out. Maybe change the whole scape around..


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## Sameer

Jiinx said:


> Hey Sameer!
> So happy to read an update. I'm so sorry to hear about your plants. I've seen so many plants melt and die on me - it's so frustrating. Especially when you've spent the time and effort to seek these plants out. You'll grow your plants out again. It's a chance to start over and seek new plants and try them out. Maybe change the whole scape around..


Thanks. The only solution is, GET A BIGGER TANK!!! ehehe yea I dont have any space.

Still trying to think about scaping again. But I need lots of stuff sold so I have some room. Oh, Im going to pm you soon.


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## Sameer

UPDATE!!!

Going to Detroit this weekend so no water changes. I have been doing 2 per week. Im trying my best to keep it at 2 or more. I really hope bga and diatoms die off. I still need to rearrange the middle as the same reds are on the right and left. I will move them together. I need to part out the diandra and aromatica as they are growing in one area. I was thinking of moving my blyxa to the far right front side and more the powerhead up (I really want those magnetic ones! if someone can sell me a used one.) and plant the reinecki mini to the far left front side. It needs light and thats a good spot. But I have too many plants there now. Dang. Gotta sell them off.


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## Jiinx

Sameer, that looks better already! Good stuff. I love the lushness of the foreground and the hints of colour peppering throughout the tank.


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## Sameer

Jiinx said:


> Sameer, that looks better already! Good stuff. I love the lushness of the foreground and the hints of colour peppering throughout the tank.


Thank you Sarah.

As you can see, the repens in the middle is being choked by dhg. I really want to sell it but no ones interested.

I planted one, just one stem of dhg a few months ago. And this is what happened. I did not expect it to spread this quick.

Here are the pics of the so called mutations. I think it might be because my lights are not enough. As you can see, both the dark red and the mutated stems are growing at the same level. Its not like closer to the light they are red and at the bottom they are mutated. The dark red stems are all over the place. I think it really is my light.


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## Reckon

My minis stunt the same way too. I've got a LOT of light though... Could be something else...


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## Sameer

Reckon said:


> My minis stunt the same way too. I've got a LOT of light though... Could be something else...


Ive heard its hard to grow. Perhaps my hard water might be the problem. My pH is set to 6.1. I actually dont know my 24 hour ph level. I have yet to do that.


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## Sameer

So just to recap, pic from July 3, 2013.










Now heres the tank July 14, 2013


























After trim










I know it looks ugly. I need lessons on how to scape.

All of this is thanks to two T8 shop lights. Ill be getting LEDs cranking 150+ PAR at the substrate. I really hope the colours come out then but Im worried about algae.

AGAIN, July 3rd to July 14


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## Sameer

New blog post!!! Even though no one bothers to comment. Atleast these pics will stay on the net incase my laptop blows up and I have no pics left.

I usually take pics on Sundays after my water change, but I couldnt wait.

Im getting a magnetic pump and soon LED fixture. atm, I have T8s and there really is no need to upgrade.

My blyxa is going red. Yes, red!! Ive been over dosing on EI, yea you heard it. My current mixture is messed up and need to make a new one. So Im dosing alot to finish it soon. Plants have been changing colour a lil since a week ago.

My rotala butterflys transformed to Rotala Mac Green. Half way to the top they turn back to red butterfly. Its really hard to take pics of these guys.

Blyxa and others for sale!!


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## Jiinx

Sameer, it really looks great! You've got an aqua scalping thumb that you were hiding from us! I'm positive your new lights will give you all the colours you want and more.


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## Sameer

Jiinx said:


> Sameer, it really looks great! You've got an aqua scalping thumb that you were hiding from us! I'm positive your new lights will give you all the colours you want and more.


Thank you Sarah  Too kind.

I have a few big things I need to do. Which means Ill be moving things/plants here and there. Lots of work to be done. atm the right side is a mess. Actually, rotalas are causing a problem. I have a huge bush of rotala mac green which turns out, is most likely Rotala Mini Butterfly. The butterfly loves to transform to what looks like mac green. So in my tank, I have soo many green like plants that I dont know which one is really mac green. Im waiting to get new lights and fix my nutrients so I can finally see a difference. Either way, theres just too much and Ill have to do a big prune. Im not sure if I want to sell it because Im not sure of the ID. If green, it will be cheap, if butterfly, expensive.


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## Jiinx

Sameer, could it possibly that I have green? Lawson mentioned it took a couple of weeks for his butterfly to turn red. My new growth is very green. I don't mind just wondering!!!  how is the cuba? It grows very quickly


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## Sameer

Jiinx said:


> Sameer, could it possibly that I have green? Lawson mentioned it took a couple of weeks for his butterfly to turn red. My new growth is very green. I don't mind just wondering!!!  how is the cuba? It grows very quickly


Cuba is good, its growing well.

I hope you didnt get the green, if you did, Ill send you more stems, as soon as I sort out this fiasco. The bunch that I gave you from had thin leaves, but its such a mess everywhere that I cant trace from where I gave you. Im getting some true butterfly growth here and there, when they get big enough to be trimmed, Ill be hacking and slashing a bit so I can get rid of the unknown species. Again, sorry if it is the green, Im getting growth of mac green with greens, yellows, yellow reds, oranges, its all over the place. Theres only one bunch/bush thats true butterfly but majority of the stems are black and dead (new growth from the stems though). So when I sort this out, I can send you a few again.


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## Sameer

For the end of the month, I bought myself 2 presents. LED from buildmyled and magnetic Hydor 425 gph pump.

I first bought the sunsun 800 gph powerhead from ebay for $25. I installed it and it was just terror. It sucked in my plants, pushed the gravel around and was a mess. It just threw around water. What I want is for the ph to push water from right side of the tank to left. I got fed up and in a few min. took out the pump, put it on sale. Sold it for $35 and bought the hydor 425 for $30. I installed it today and am veryyyy pleased with it. Im doing a very short video review  My first ever. Its terrible but I want to do it.

Now for the semi-bad part:

Copy-past from my tank journal from TPT (corrected spelling and stuff)

I just put the LED fixture over the tank and

*I regret it*

I wanted to cry. I put on the fixture and half the tank is dark...What a waste of almost $300. Now I have to put back one of my T8s on the tank. Here are the pics

I had C/iron deficiency so many of my plants have washed out colours. My blyxa isnt red but an ugly brown now. Many plants took a toll.

Two T8s









LED









So how are the high light plants suppose to grow in the back side?

















LED and a T8









I lifted the LED and tried to get to a point where the whole tank is illuminated. Didnt work, the light fades out quick since its at 90 degrees. I designed this with the help of Nick, who knew all the conditions. He didnt tell me half my tank would be in the dark. Just yesterday I read why Tom Barr and the other pros dont use LEDs.

Dam..

-------
So atm I have a T8 in front and LED in back. The led fixture is so hot that you cant keep your hand on it for more than a sec or two. The fixture is a no tank for me but I want to see the walk. Its suppose to give out crazy PAR so Im hoping to see a change in my plant colours. I redid my macro mixture so now I should not have any deficiencies. Lets see what happens.


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## Reckon

I think the tank looks awesome with the LED fixture with T8. I think the colors pop out more. LEDs are unidirectional, unlike the traditional T8 or T5 cylindrical bulbs, their beam is more narrow, but that also partially makes them more efficient. The body of the fixture is a heat sink so the heat is directed upwards and not down towards the water. I've been running LEDs on my 50gal for about 2.5 months now. I'm not sure about the LEDs vs T5s yet, I really like the option of choosing certain T5 bulbs to achieve my color preference; however, I really like the shimmer and the intensity and efficiency of LEDs. I suppose what is most important is that our plants do well. I'm still waiting to decide on that. 
What did Tom say about using LEDs?


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## Sameer

Reckon said:


> I think the tank looks awesome with the LED fixture with T8. I think the colors pop out more. LEDs are unidirectional, unlike the traditional T8 or T5 cylindrical bulbs, their beam is more narrow, but that also partially makes them more efficient. The body of the fixture is a heat sink so the heat is directed upwards and not down towards the water. I've been running LEDs on my 50gal for about 2.5 months now. I'm not sure about the LEDs vs T5s yet, I really like the option of choosing certain T5 bulbs to achieve my color preference; however, I really like the shimmer and the intensity and efficiency of LEDs. I suppose what is most important is that our plants do well. I'm still waiting to decide on that.
> What did Tom say about using LEDs?


Yes the entire fixture is a heat sink, its cool.

Now Im just waiting to see the change in plants. I hope there is a change. Ill be sure to make a topic comparing t8s vs leds.

Tom Barr



> The LED's I've made and used did not provide good light spread, color for most of the plants, I quickly returned to T5's.
> 
> Energy wise, the LED's were no different to a top line ATI. Kill A Watt showed that per unit of umol/area, they are about equal. I used the Cree 3 w lights, but have various colors to adjust and try out to see if they could provide a decent color and a decent growth.
> 
> In order to get good even spread, I needed a lot of Cree 3 w lights. Now when that cost and the look of the tank hood is factored in, now we are talking say 600-800$ vs say 1500-2000$. Will they work? Sure, but will they produce nice colors and all? I'm not so certain.
> 
> Some of the smaller LED's with many smaller light points seem to do well.
> ADA's Chinese LED and the Finnex and Current seem to do well for many.
> 
> For larger tanks? I think you end up needing a lot of them and the larger 3 W, etc, you can get better spread by raising them up higher, but then you lose intensity, so there's a trade off. T5's? You do not have this trade off much.
> 
> MH's have a point source also, but a nice reflector takes care of this and they have good spread, LED's are not designed to spread light, they are designed to pinpoint it. If you use the optix, then this spreads it out, but the trade off is much less intensity.
> 
> I'll personally wait a while before buying any.
> It's not that I do not like to test and experiment, or use techy lighting and all, it's just I see a large cost difference and trade off at this point in time still. Maybe later.


From http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=149265&page=129

He kinda says what Ive been saying

CrazyDaz



> I did consider LED's when I was thinking about upgrading, and had asked around to some buddies about their opinions, including several that had them already. Something that expensive is worth asking around about. The general consensus was that it isn't worth the expense yet. The viewing spectrum is still just a little off, mostly having things look a bit too blue or green, or washed out. I wasn't thrilled about the pricing, so between the two reasons, I just opted to go with what I was already comfortable with. I have no regrets!! It is something that I would have to see "in person" in order to be convinced to go with LED's. I had read about some technology coming down the road that is supposed to be better than LED's, where the light generated almost perfectly reproduced natural sunlight, and could be used for aquariums. LED's "may" (emphasis) already be in jeopardy before they can really grab too much of this planted tank market.


From http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=192640&highlight=crazydaz&page=42

Check out his tank, it is crazy!


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## Jiinx

So sorry to hear about your investment not panning out just yet. Give it time, perhaps it will take time for the plants to adjust?

 your plants are looking good, however!


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## Sameer

Jiinx said:


> So sorry to hear about your investment not panning out just yet. Give it time, perhaps it will take time for the plants to adjust?
> 
> your plants are looking good, however!


Thanks. Its ok, partly my fault, shouldve asked around and researched more.

I cant wait to see the changes. On the aromatica, I can see the green, reds and blues from the led, so its like a tri coloured plant. At the top its shimmering alot due to leds. My butterfly minis have finally converted, I need to do a big hack and slash and use just those few stems.


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## solarz

Awesome tank!


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## Sameer

solarz said:


> Awesome tank!


Thanks. Its getting better, slowly.


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## Sameer

Its a very complicated mess. I stare at the tank alot these days and Im not happy. Theres just too many plant species. My rotala type 2 seem to be struggling because they are in shade at times and in moderate water flow. I think its the water flow thats giving them the hard time. I still have gsa or diatoms on some of the leaves, which I hate, but its much less than before.

I got rid of almost all my mac green from the left side. This weekend Im going to get rid of the right most side. All the h ra and mac green will be gone. Im only keeping mini butterfly there. The aromatica have been trimmed alot. I have to place the nesea to the back. The front left is a small mess, I have no space for all the sp india growing on the front right. The filter output is top left which is a pain because the india and plants on the left sway like crazy and get algae due to the high flow. So I think Im going to switch to a nozzle. I got rid of the repens that were right in the middle of the tank. The bottom left and right side of the tank will be reinki.. mini only. I hope that makes a good effect. It will take a while for them to fill in. I just need to make a barrier for dgh from spreading anymore.

The thing that worries me now is, Im getting rid of ALOT of plant matter, I need to replace it with something or else chances of algae increase. I already gave away 50+ stems of mac green. Theres like 50 to 100 stems of h ra and mac green on the right that I want to get rid off......its gonna be a long day of maintenance.

Heres how it looked like a few days ago. Its the most dense and organized I have been since the beginning. Standby for pics on Monday, its gonna look empty.










EDIT: Oh, I sold my blyxa, it was a monster at around 8 to 10". I kept only two stalks, I think one is the one flowering. It was taking too much space


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## Sameer

Have not updated in a long time, tank looks empty and ugly. Im thinking of getting rid of a few plants again, they are just too hard to scape with.

....copy paste from tpt....

Boring update. Will be selling my dgh soon. Wanted to go UG but I keep hearing EI dosing will kill UG.....But others keep it with EI successfully, so I have no idea what to do. atm I have HC floating so I will plant that.










D. Diandra. You can see the diff. LED colours reflecting. Ugly! If you ever go LED, hang the dam thing.


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## Annie2

great pictures! Your layouts are quite inspiring, I will try something like those stones in my other 30 gal tank. Thanks for sharing.


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## Sameer

Annie2 said:


> great pictures! Your layouts are quite inspiring, I will try something like those stones in my other 30 gal tank. Thanks for sharing.


Thanks  Its not much. I really wanted to scape with dw and rocks but my tank is just too thin. And I have too many fast growing plants. So in the end, I ended up as dutch. I really want to grow those really bushy dense plants for once. After I achieve this, I will move towards those really cool scapes. I want to do a low light tank, something exactly like this. Except I will have all low light, low maintenance tank.

This is Oliver Knott's tank he made for a customer, 450 gallon. I just love the island effect with the dw coming out. I think that will be my next attempt. Heres a pic to make all the other pics in this thread crap.


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## Annie2

Wow. Like, wow. That's a mammoth tank. Gorgeous. That would be something I'd love to see (though maybe not in my house, lol).


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## Annie2

I wouldn't even mind to pay admission to see that tank. Soooo huge!


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## Sameer

Yea it looks crazy. I think majority of the plants are narrow leaf java ferns.

I just love how darkish it is in the send pic. Im assuming its tannins?


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## Canadianbettas

Hmm how are you getting your plants so red 

I have lots of clay in my soil I even dose ei... 

The plants you gave me are growing just fine but turning back to green lol


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## Reckon

Canadianbettas said:


> Hmm how are you getting your plants so red
> 
> I have lots of clay in my soil I even dose ei...
> 
> The plants you gave me are growing just fine but turning back to green lol


Love these kinds of questions. I'm looking forward even more to the responses 

I got some plants from Sameer as well. They needed a bit of time to adjust, but then given the right condition (macro, co2, water hardness) they also started to take on redness.

Just curious, what are your water parameters?


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## Sameer

Canadianbettas said:


> Hmm how are you getting your plants so red
> 
> I have lots of clay in my soil I even dose ei...
> 
> The plants you gave me are growing just fine but turning back to green lol


 atleast you are not growing algae.



Reckon said:


> Love these kinds of questions. I'm looking forward even more to the responses
> 
> I got some plants from Sameer as well. They needed a bit of time to adjust, but then given the right condition (macro, co2, water hardness) they also started to take on redness.
> 
> Just curious, what are your water parameters?


This is true. You need high lvls of co2, high stable levels. I have crazy amount of high light as well, but Ive noticed theres not much difference. Before I had T8s, now I have LED + T8. Im pushing more than 100+ PAR at the gravel! Even with that much amount of light, my plants are still colored the same (Ive noticed a slight difference in a few plants though). I also EI dose and as you know, our water is hard. Besides that I dont do anything to make them red. So I guess check how much light you have. After that, make sure your co2 is high. I had the drop checker before and it was annoying because as my pressure reduced in the co2 tank, the rate reduced. So I had to constantly fiddle with it. Very annoying. Ive gassed my tank too many times. Thats the reason why I kept only 2 fish. Now that I have a ph co2 controller, I know that my co2 is stable.

The hard question, "what are your water para?" I. Dont. Know  I have a phosphate kit and nitrate kit (I can test my water for you guys if you want) but I think my levels are always changing. Sometimes I dose x ml of solution and some times xx ml of solution. I just make sure its alot. Recently due to the bloom in the gsa/green slimy algae on my plants, gravel and glass Ive reduced my dosing a little. The algae bloom is most likely due to me doing a major reduction in my bioload. I got rid of all the DGH, Rotala H ra and Rotala Mac. Green. Whats really getting me is what is causing the algae. Excess of nutrients should never cause algae. Tom Barr (and a few very knowledgeable people) mentioned that he had something like 80 ppm of phosphates and/or nitrates and hes never had algae. I dont remember properly, Ill try to dig his post. So as long as your ppms are above 10 or so, I think you should be safe.

So lets see, high light, lots of co2 and nutrients. Thats basically the only things you need to make them get red. This is off course, the 1st stage of getting them red. Ive been trying to get my L. Aromatica turn red for over what? 8 months? Its still green, even when Im pushing 300+ PAR on it (its said 80 PAR is high light to grow any plant). So you can see light isnt the main factor that turns plants red (as long as you have recent PAR at a minimum). Im still trying to figure out how to make the aromatica red. Some say limit x nutrients so you stress the plant and it will show its colours. I disagree, theres a topic Tom Barr posted in having red aromatica and he EI doses. Also, if you limit one salt/nutrient, wont that cause an algae bloom since you are starving the rest of the plants?

In all, Im not sure why your plants are not red. Maybe once they settle? Im not sure why my plants are not...redder. Let me know if you want me to use the test kits, I think they are not accurate though. + I did a huge water change yesterday and as the week progresses, my nutrient lvls should increase.


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## Reckon

My plants weren't looking that great when my GH was low (2-4). Here in Vancouver our water is extremely soft (GH 0 or 1). When I buffered my tank to GH 6 the colors started to show up. I'm pretty sure the sweet spot is somewhere between 5-7. I'm pretty heavy with CO2 and phosphate dosing. Drop checker is always yellow. My nitrates are always kept around 30-40ppm.


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## Sameer

Reckon said:


> My plants weren't looking that great when my GH was low (2-4). Here in Vancouver our water is extremely soft (GH 0 or 1). When I buffered my tank to GH 6 the colors started to show up. I'm pretty sure the sweet spot is somewhere between 5-7. I'm pretty heavy with CO2 and phosphate dosing. Drop checker is always yellow. My nitrates are always kept around 30-40ppm.


There you go, you have better conditions than me. I still dont recall ever seeing your tank. When the heck are you going to show me your tank?


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## Reckon

Sameer said:


> There you go, you have better conditions than me. I still dont recall ever seeing your tank. When the heck are you going to show me your tank?


Are you kidding me, if my tank was doing that well I wouldn't be asking people what their GH is. Haha. I can't seem to keep Ludwigia Ovalis alive or A. Reineckii Mini looking decent at all.

Ok ok, I'll scrape the GSA off the front glass and take pictures tonight. I owe you and Jiinx that much at least. Haha.


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## Sameer

Reckon said:


> Are you kidding me, if my tank was doing that well I wouldn't be asking people what their GH is. Haha. I can't seem to keep Ludwigia Ovalis alive or A. Reineckii Mini looking decent at all.
> 
> Ok ok, I'll scrape the GSA off the front glass and take pictures tonight. I owe you and Jiinx that much at least. Haha.


 you will help me do a few changes to my tank, by accepting some plants.

copy paste from tpt
___

Its a mess but I have plans for the left side of the tank.


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## Kimchi24

I had a tank like that. But then I woke up from my dream...


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## Reckon

Lol he's selling plants. You too can get the colors he has in his tank.


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## FlyingHellFish

Dude, low KH and GH is great for plants! I need an RO system badly. 

If my tap had GH 1 - 2, I'll be over the moon. Did you guys know there more Ca and Mg in our tap water per volume than Seachem Flourish.


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## Sameer

Kimchi24 said:


> I had a tank like that. But then I woke up from my dream...


hehe wow thats saying alot. Thanks

Everything grows like weed, I either sell it, give it for dirt cheap, give it for free or throw it in the garbage. Recently, rather than grow all the rare species I can find, Ive been trying to scape. Trying to do a dutch, organized, bushy dutch. Im still trying to find and play with easy to scape plants.

Yes TO water is hard, but Ive been able to grow everything. Besides the soft water plants and getting the colours into the aromatica and other plants. But I think theres more than just hard water that determines the plant colours.

So my reneki... mini is finally growing. Im hopeing that it will cover the front left and right side. The entire front mid will be HC. Im selling off all the hotton. (most left back, green plant) and moving my Rotala India to the back. Im thinking of moving the blyxa to Indias place. atm blyxa is under 90% shade. The mermaid weed is in front of the aromatica and d. diandra, which makes it look even more messy. The right side has like 4 plants that want to claim that space. Not sure what Im going to do there. Maybe Ill replace the aromatica with the lud. cuba. But I dont want to get rid of the aromatica till I can make that darn thing colour up.

I reduced my co2 from 6.1/6.2 to 5.9/6.0. There is alot of co2 wastage but Im testing it out. I dont think it will make a difference.

LAstly, Im surprised the HC isnt perling. Back when I used diy co2, it perled like crazy. Guess its just getting used to the tank conditions.


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## Sameer

I dont like spamming my journal here, because well, Im like the only one who updates regularly here.

So today turned out to be a MAJOR clean up. I sold alot of the ludwig red hybrid and that caused a chain effect. There was so much crap/mulm everywhere that I decided to clean up everything. The d diandra was decomposing from the bottom as no light could get down. The mermaid weed was in the way so I had to move that. The wavy was in the way as well so moved that. Threw away a crap load of stems because the leaves had gsa here and there. I cut down the mini type 2. I have no hopes for it, these plants just not want to convert to their true self.

The left most side with that stupid ugly green plant is going in the garbage next weekend. Im going to replace it with R India. The right side is becoming cluttered. The Nesea needs trimming and I have to deal with the cuba and the others. Boy this isnt easy.

I really hope the drop in bio mass does not cause much trouble. I also upturned alot of substrate.

September 29, 2013









September 30, 2013









Bonus


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## Reckon

LOL. Wow! That's a big hack job! Nice work! Keep it up the plants always seem to come back even better than before after a bit of trimming.


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## Sameer

Reckon said:


> LOL. Wow! That's a big hack job! Nice work! Keep it up the plants always seem to come back even better than before after a bit of trimming.


Thank, I just hope the darn gsa goes away. I threw away soo many stems of mermaid weed and the ludwig, too many.


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## Reckon

Sameer said:


> Thank, I just hope the darn gsa goes away. I threw away soo many stems of mermaid weed and the ludwig, too many.


Keep it up with bumping the CO2 and PO4.

Dang, hurts to hear that, those are 2 of some of my favorite plants. Too bad there aren't more lovers of high tech tanks 
Keep it up on posting this journal, you're helping with sharing the love this way. I'll keep up on the feedback.


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## Sameer

Reckon said:


> Keep it up with bumping the CO2 and PO4.
> 
> Dang, hurts to hear that, those are 2 of some of my favorite plants. Too bad there aren't more lovers of high tech tanks
> Keep it up on posting this journal, you're helping with sharing the love this way. I'll keep up on the feedback.


About the po4, I gave up. Maybe Ill play around next week, since my plant load is less. But its confirmed that I have stellatus and not the aromatica. I made a post on hydra.

Long time no update---

Late update. Many thing happened along the way and have since the pics were taken.


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## solarz

Very beautiful tank!


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## Jiinx

your tank looks so spacious and wide. Great camera skills..what is that plant that you have focused on its pearling? Bacopa..?

sarah


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## TorontoPlantMan

Looks like Ammania Bonsai to me, did you finally find it Sameer? I remember you saying awhile back you were looking for it.


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## Sameer

solarz said:


> Very beautiful tank!





Jiinx said:


> your tank looks so spacious and wide. Great camera skills..what is that plant that you have focused on its pearling? Bacopa..?
> 
> sarah





TorontoPlantMan said:


> Looks like Ammania Bonsai to me, did you finally find it Sameer? I remember you saying awhile back you were looking for it.


Thank you!!

The plant in focus is Lindernia sp. 'India'. Not amm bonsai. I wont be buying any rare plants for the winter. Its too cold. Last winter I bought a crazy amount of plants and it shipped fine. But this time around Im not willing enough to pay shipping just for one plant. A few months ago someone was selling bonsai 1 a $1 and I cried. I really wanted it but I decided not to, I just didnt have the space then.

I am however looking for ammannia garcilis and most of all L. aromatica from fellow hobbyist from Toronto.

With the huge lobelia gone I can now give room to my blyxa, I wanted to get rid of them as well but they are just too beautiful.


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## Jiinx

lol sameer..I have your ammania bonsai (rotala indica true)! Why ship when you can drive 25 minutes and get it???


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## Sameer

Jiinx said:


> lol sameer..I have your ammania bonsai (rotala indica true)! Why ship when you can drive 25 minutes and get it???


Yes you also have the aromatica I want as well  Ive actually never driven far to get plants. Its always been shipped. Ill try and see if I can make it out sometime.


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## Reckon

Buddy, I've considered flying out there to Toronto to see Jiinx's tank (and of course to visit other friends). You better be driving 25 minutes


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## Sameer

Reckon said:


> Buddy, I've considered flying out there to Toronto to see Jiinx's tank (and of course to visit other friends). You better be driving 25 minutes


Ill try 

Random pics for now


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## Jiinx

Sameer said:


> Ill try


LIES!!!!!  hehe

Love the pics. Happy to see them again!

sarah


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## Sameer

Jiinx said:


> LIES!!!!!  hehe
> 
> Love the pics. Happy to see them again!
> 
> sarah


Thanks.

Ill try  Its just so weird the more north you go. Its toooo quiet, out of my comfort zone


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## greg

Sameer said:


>


Great pictures - tank looks incredible!


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## mikosoft

Love your tank. Such beautiful colours. I wish I had growth like that in mine, but probably won't happen since I'm not using CO2 or planting substrate. 

Sad to hear you have to throw away plants.


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## Sameer

greg said:


> Great pictures - tank looks incredible!





mikosoft said:


> Love your tank. Such beautiful colours. I wish I had growth like that in mine, but probably won't happen since I'm not using CO2 or planting substrate.
> 
> Sad to hear you have to throw away plants.


Thank you both. I took more pics, I think Ill post soon.

Yea I gotta throw them away even though they are crazy underpriced. People are just not into high tech in Toronto. Unless everyone live away from here.

Yes you need press. co2 for sure for high tech. Initial cost is a lil high but its soooooo worth it. Planting sub is important but its not mandatory. As long as you EI dose you should be good. The substrate just provides a cushion on if you miss dosing or you are away for a few days.

ATM I have a bucket of plants I want to get rid off. I will be throwing them out on Sunday.


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## Sameer

Thought to update. Past months Ive just not been interested in the hobby. Ive been getting rid of many plant species so I can try to scape (dutch). Im just terrible at it. I dont know where to clip the plants from so they look bushy. Im just so busy cutting them from underneath and replanting them back that it looks ugly. One of the worst things is the tank space. 45 is too small, 12" depth is killer. The java moss is growing thru out my dgh, which is very annoying. I rip out alot and waste alot of gravel too.


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## Jiinx

Hi Sameer,
Good to see an update. Even with your lack of interest, your tank still looks lush and beautiful 

I hear ya with the losing interest 

sarah


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## WiseGuyPhil

Time to jump to salt


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## Sameer

Jiinx said:


> Hi Sameer,
> Good to see an update. Even with your lack of interest, your tank still looks lush and beautiful
> 
> I hear ya with the losing interest
> 
> sarah


Thanks, how are things with you? I lurk around hrdra but dont see you post there. Everything ok? I think last I heard you were rescaping.


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## Sameer

WiseGuyAquatics said:


> Time to jump to salt


NEVER to the dark side!!!!! j/k maybe someday 

Copy pasted from my tpt thread:

The tank has been shut down. I downgraded to 30 gal square. I will conclude the thread with pics of the tank from its last few weeks. I will make another thread and update on all the progress, I will link it here as well. It was a great journey. Ive been very busy lately and will be for a few days, so posting here will be sporadic.


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## Sameer

ummm.....yea...last June update. It breaks my heart to conclude this thread, I had a much much more indepth thread on TPT and I have not posted there. But I guess I will finally conclude it here. After the tank break down I sold it off, started a 30 gal tank and things took a turn for the worse. I had algae issues and I started to neglect the tank. Who likes to see algae all the time? Yesterday I did a big water change and moved plants around. Lets see if it works. If the tank gets better, I will start a new journal.

Last 2 pics of the 45.


















Atleast I dont have newspaper behind my new tank


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## Reckon

Hey man, that tank looks pretty good from what I can see. 
I still think it's worth considering the GH.
How much micros are you dosing?

Perhaps its time to switch to nature style? You'll miss the cool stem plants though


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## Sameer

Reckon said:


> Hey man, that tank looks pretty good from what I can see.
> I still think it's worth considering the GH.
> How much micros are you dosing?
> 
> Perhaps its time to switch to nature style? You'll miss the cool stem plants though


Thanks, pmed as well. Yea Im considering nature, cut down on the number of species greatly and just take it easy. Once I get the hang of it, go dutch maybe and mix the two. Im just waiting for the day I have enough space for a 100 gal +. Before that I need to get to the source of algae though.


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