# I feel this needs to be said... !!! :o



## John_C (Dec 17, 2007)

Like I said, I feel this needs to be said, and I'll probably get some negative backlash for bringing this up... But I've been noticing a disturbing trend of people threatening to kill their stock when they don't get a response for the price they list them at. 

I know we all put a lot of hours and effort into keeping and breeding our beloved pets, and expect to get top dollar for them, but using the guilt or threat tactics of destroying your pets if you can't sell them at your asking prices is pretty low and inhumane! At the end of the day, they're still living things, not inanimate objects, which you can just toss out on garbage collection day. 

If the purpose of getting into the hobby was to score a profit, then you should re-assess your objectives, and maybe look into another hobby with a higher earning potential, maybe stocks, or coins. 

Enjoy your pets, study and observe their behavior, getting back to the roots of the original reason why we all started keeping aquatic pets to begin with.

That is all


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## Y2KGT (Jul 20, 2009)

If you see a thread with this type of message please use the Report feature so that one of the Admins can deal with this issue. The threat of harm to an animal will not be tolerated and will be dealt with accordingly. 
--
Thanks...Paul


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## John_C (Dec 17, 2007)

*Thanks.. *

Thanks Paul...

Good to know cus it's a really sore sight on this otherwise Great informative forum...


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## Marz (Mar 1, 2014)

Y2KGT said:


> If you see a thread with this type of message please use the Report feature so that one of the Admins can deal with this issue. The threat of harm to an animal will not be tolerated and will be dealt with accordingly.


+1 nice to see the forum has ways of dealing with this.


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## zenins (Sep 17, 2013)

John_C said:


> If the purpose of getting into the hobby was to score a profit, then you should re-assess your objectives, and maybe look into another hobby with a higher earning potential, maybe stocks, or coins.
> 
> Enjoy your pets, study and observe their behavior, getting back to the roots of the original reason why we all started keeping aquatic pets to begin with.


Well said ... I agree 100%


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## matti2uude (Jan 10, 2009)

So should I stop selling snails for people to feed to their puffers?


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## Reis (Nov 15, 2011)

^ feeder fish as well.
Also snails take over tanks, like massive invasions, destroy plants and so on. If no one wants to buy them what am I supposed to do?


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## damsel_den (Oct 31, 2011)

I think its more along the lines of "if you wont buy this fish for $50. I am going to flush it down the toilet" to make people feel sorry for it and buy it.
I don't really think the OP ment along the lines of feeders.


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## Reis (Nov 15, 2011)

That's the thing though, would someone with common sense and half a brain really flush down $50? No... But there's always going to be a handful of idiots in our world that do do it and it's sad/upsetting but at the end of the day what can we do? 
The best thing we can do is ban/report people who are and hope for the best.


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## damsel_den (Oct 31, 2011)

Would most people actually do it. No. Is there anything we can do? Except for deleting the post or banning them. No.
But the fact people post it as a selling tactic is horrible. 
These are living things and when places like BA Will always take your fish . Even if its for a small precentage of your asking price , its better to to have a few dollars then zero dollars.
It also makes our community look horrible, If you were browsing forums thinking about getting into the hobby or looking at getting advice within the hobby and came accross posts like that.. would you join a forum with posts like that on it?
The OP posted a valid concern.


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## TorontoPlantMan (Aug 16, 2013)

damsel_den said:


> Would most people actually do it. No. Is there anything we can do? Except for deleting the post or banning them. No.
> But the fact people post it as a selling tactic is horrible.
> These are living things and when places like BA Will always take your fish . Even if its for a small precentage of your asking price , its better to to have a few dollars then zero dollars.
> It also makes our community look horrible, If you were browsing forums thinking about getting into the hobby or looking at getting advice within the hobby and came accross posts like that.. would you join a forum with posts like that on it?
> The OP posted a valid concern.


Honestly I've been stuck in the situaton twice (my own fault) when I first got into the hobby and purchased two fish... A red devil and a Pacu. I don't know which BA you go to but Brampton, Mississauga, and many more don't "always take your fish" they'll take it if they have room & it's something they can make a profit on, in both cases I tried bringing back those fish and no BA's wanted them, I even contacted many other LFS with no response or them simply saying no thanks. Anyway to make a long story short, of course when I put him on the forum no one wanted him either until I said I had no choice but to flush it & then someone came.

So OP my question to you is what do you expect people to do if no one wants the fish, many other people have mentioned that no one is obviously going to flush a $50 fish or something else that people ACTUALLY WANT. If it's being flushed it's probably because it's a nuisance fish like a red devil or a pacu etc etc etc (fish that grow too large without people knowing etc).

All in all, if you're gonna starting snitching on people over crap like this then why don't you actually call them out on it, I'm extremely curious to see what "flushing" you've actually even come across


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## Reis (Nov 15, 2011)

^ well said


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## TankCla (Dec 31, 2010)

TorontoPlantMan said:


> ...If it's being flushed it's probably because it's a nuisance fish like a red devil or a pacu etc etc etc (fish that grow too large without people knowing etc)...


Be smart and don't brag about it. We don't need to know your dark side.


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## damsel_den (Oct 31, 2011)

Anyway to make a long story short, of course when I put him on the forum no one wanted him either until I said I had. o choice but to flush it & then someone came.

All in all, if you're gonna starting snitching on people over crap like this then why don't you actually call them out on it, I'm extremely curious to see what "flushing" you've actually even come across[/QUOTE]

You just posted that you posted that you were going to flush them.
I have also seen it a few times before on the FW side.

I'm not into fresh anymore, when I was many moons ago I had no problem asking big als to take fish and they would take them

If YOU make a mistake and dont research for your tank, even if you were new at the time..why should they get killed for you mistake?

I have impulsed bought MANY times without researching. I set up something to accomidate them until I can rehome them even if that takes multiple tanks and many months


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## TankCla (Dec 31, 2010)

damsel_den said:


> I have impulsed bought MANY times without researching. I set up something to accomidate them until I can rehome them even if that takes multiple tanks and many months


If no one will buy the dry rock from you, be careful when you are flushing it away. You can make a mess


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## TorontoPlantMan (Aug 16, 2013)

damsel_den said:


> Anyway to make a long story short, of course when I put him on the forum no one wanted him either until I said I had. o choice but to flush it & then someone came.
> 
> All in all, if you're gonna starting snitching on people over crap like this then why don't you actually call them out on it, I'm extremely curious to see what "flushing" you've actually even come across





You just posted that you posted that you were going to flush them.
I have also seen it a few times before on the FW side.
I'm not into fresh anymore said:


> Yeah that's correct I was going to flush it because no one else wanted it, why would I keep a fish that smacks itself against my heater and filter to the point where he/she knocks it off & I wake up to a dry running filter or cracked heater.
> All I'm trying to say is that not everyone who says they have no choice but to flush the fish is doing is as a selling tactic...When I had that problem with the fish I wasn't even try to sell it, I simply was trying to give it away FREE. I already previously stated that it was MY FAULT for buying the fish without knowing anything about them, we've ALL done that once upon a time regardless of what stage of the hobby we're in.
> 
> "I set up something to accommodate them until I can rehome them even if that takes multiple tanks and many months" Maybe you should just become a game warden.


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## Cimmel1 (Nov 17, 2009)

15 years ago I had a big snakehead that nobody would take. The thought of putting it down crossed my mind. I ended up putting it in a 5 gal bucket walked into the LFS put it down and walked out. Nobody knew where it came from and they sold it a week later. Not the best approach but in my mind was better than killing an innocent pet.


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## TorontoPlantMan (Aug 16, 2013)

Cimmel1 said:


> 15 years ago I had a big snakehead that nobody would take. The thought of putting it down crossed my mind. I ended up putting it in a 5 gal bucket walked into the LFS put it down and walked out. Nobody knew where it came from and they sold it a week later. Not the best approach but in my mind was better than killing an innocent pet.


LOL that one made me laugh, Very slick


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## Reis (Nov 15, 2011)

Lmao mysterious packaged dropped off at LFS, surprised the SWAT wasn't involved hahaha but very smooth


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## damsel_den (Oct 31, 2011)

TorontoPlantMan said:


> Maybe you should just become a game warden.


I'm not going to keep arguing about this but I have no problem with culling so don't be making me out like some bleeding heart.
I used to cull stock all the time that wernt born to my standards. 
I also feed live feeders to some of my fish.
Threatning to flush so that it sells is innapropriate, so is flushing a living thing.
There are many other ways to cull something then just flushing it down a toilet alive.
Cull it then flush it. DONT PUT A LIVING THING DOWN A TOILET. It's inhumane and unnacceptable.


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## zzz (Sep 18, 2013)

damsel_den said:


> ...
> Cull it then flush it. DONT PUT A LIVING THING DOWN A TOILET. It's inhumane and unnacceptable.


Don't argue, just curious... Why do you consider flushing more inhumane than killing?


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## Y2KGT (Jul 20, 2009)

zzz said:


> Don't argue, just curious... Why do you consider flushing more inhumane than killing?


When you flush a living animal down the toilet it ends up dieing a slow death in a mix of urine, feces and everything else you and your neighbors flush down the toilet.

However if you follow proper fish euthanization procedures you'll minimize the suffering of the animal and therefore a more humane death.

If you're curious about humane fish euthanization you can Google it for more info.
--
Paul


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## John_C (Dec 17, 2007)

matti2uude said:


> So should I stop selling snails for people to feed to their puffers?


No that's for food .. Totally accepted and different context!


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## John_C (Dec 17, 2007)

Reis said:


> ^ well said


I don't even know why these stores carry these fish to begin with.. buy an ID shark for 1.99 on sale, and it grows into a 16"+ monster that nobody wants, and the store refuses to take on as adults... You see it with so many fish: Oscars, Pacu, Redtail cats, Black sharks, hifin sharks etc.. I've kept these tankbusters before, and you find out quickly just how longterm an investment they are... It's like keeping a dog.. MOst of these bigger cichlids and other species live to 12 yrs and up, and finding someone to take on such a fish after is very tough.. Not everyone has a spare 100 gallon sitting in the basement. When my shrimp or guppies overpopulate, there's a multitude of hobbyist with an extra 10 gallon tank to setup for a new species to add to their fishroom.

SOmething to consider before the purchase of such a fish.


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## zenins (Sep 17, 2013)

John_C said:


> I don't even know why these stores carry these fish to begin with.. buy an ID shark for 1.99 on sale, and it grows into a 16"+ monster that nobody wants, and the store refuses to take on as adults... You see it with so many fish: Oscars, Pacu, Redtail cats, Black sharks, hifin sharks etc.. I've kept these tankbusters before, and you find out quickly just how longterm an investment they are... It's like keeping a dog.. MOst of these bigger cichlids and other species live to 12 yrs and up, and finding someone to take on such a fish after is very tough.. Not everyone has a spare 100 gallon sitting in the basement. When my shrimp or guppies overpopulate, there's a multitude of hobbyist with an extra 10 gallon tank to setup for a new species to add to their fishroom.
> 
> SOmething to consider before the purchase of such a fish.


Well said 

Especially the part where some stores stock fish that they know will outgrow the new hobbyists aquarium and will not take them back later ...


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## John_C (Dec 17, 2007)

zenins said:


> Well said
> 
> Especially the part where some stores stock fish that they know will outgrow the new hobbyists aquarium and will not take them back later ...


Oh it's such a piss off! :O ... Going to one of the big box stores, and seeing a tank of ID sharks or Oscars on sale for such a low price, that some person purchases it, without even knowing the husbandry requirement of the fish, and sometimes the employees don't tell them anything... Of course the ID sharks being listed as community fish is negligible on the store, these fish end up in small tanks which they out-grow, and then when the owner brings the fish back to the store they refuse to take it back.. But of course why would they care.. They made their measly $2 profit upon the initial purpose.. For Shame!  lol


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## Bullet (Apr 19, 2014)

Good topic 
For my 2 cents, I suggest research, research and more research before you buy any livestock - even the humble snail
Google everything that you can
Not only a particular species (growth, feeding, habitat etc) but how that species will interact with another that you may introduce down the road
A little forward planning goes a long way


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

damsel_den said:


> I'm not going to keep arguing about this but I have no problem with culling so don't be making me out like some bleeding heart.
> I used to cull stock all the time that wernt born to my standards.
> I also feed live feeders to some of my fish.
> Threatning to flush so that it sells is innapropriate, so is flushing a living thing.
> ...


I just eat it alive 

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## John_C (Dec 17, 2007)

Good call.. lol.. Nothing goes to waste...



sig said:


> I just eat it alive


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## fishclubgirl (Mar 4, 2010)

Fyi.. CAOAC(Canadian association of aquarium clubs) has a fish rescue program so no fish has to be flushed!! Though I did like the story of sneaking the snakehead into the LFS


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## BillD (Jun 5, 2006)

I recall reading an article years ago in club publication years ago, about how to prep your Oscar for the pan when they got too big to keep. Same would apply to a Pacu or ID shark (Basa).


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