# need help with algae!



## adrenaline (Jan 17, 2011)

I have a 29 gallon tank, with probably close to 40 lbs or liverock. over the last little while i've had this maroon coloured (redish-purple) algae start takign over my tank. it's growing on EVERYTHING from glass, rocks, polyps, macro algae (yes algae growing on algae) and I have no idea how to get rid of it. I've recued my lighting to 2 hours a day (roughly) for the last few days, but it's not having any affect on it.

I'll try to upload pictures or it later. It's not a hard algae, it's very soft and comes off the glass very easy. it looks "fluffy" compared to other algaes. it's definitely not coraline, which WAS the dominant algae in the tank. this stuff covering up my coraline...


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

It sounds like cyanobacteria. Very difficult to remove. If you can, try a 3 day complete blackout. Not recommended if you have corals though.

Otherwise, your only solution is to reduce nutrients and have patience.


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## SKurj (Oct 26, 2011)

3 day blackouit won't hurt the corals...

syphon as much as you can out before the blackout. The blackout will only be a temporary fix though, you need to figure out what is causing it in the first place.

Check this thread on RC for some suggestions:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2172972


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## J_T (Mar 25, 2011)

SKurj said:


> 3 day blackouit won't hurt the corals...
> 
> syphon as much as you can out before the blackout. The blackout will only be a temporary fix though, you need to figure out what is causing it in the first place.
> 
> http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2172972


Just leave it.

Keep doing what you were doing before you got the cyno.

Lower the amount of nutrients going into the tank. Took my tank just over a month to rid itself of cyno. I had added a auto feeder, and wasn't really watching just how much was actually going into the tank. Oops, too much food, and a hair algae problem, and cyno later.... Cyno is gone, and HA is on its last few patches.

Let the algae soak up the nutrients, and die off!

Nothing good happens fast, only the bad. Fixing the bad takes even longer than it took to happen!


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## adrenaline (Jan 17, 2011)

ooo yeah i have hair algae blooms too!!! Thanks for the advice, will be reading the article shortly. I started getting hair algae, then the cyano blooms. I do have a couple bubbles or bubble aglae that came in on a peice of liverock, which stupid me popped... i've let them grow large enough to pick off now and will siphon those out while i'm picking them off.

They cyano has been gettin gbad for a while now. hopefully at it's worst... i'll reduce the feedings, and increase my water changes a bit to help lower nutrient levels. I do have a lot of macro algae in the tank. So much that I should probably give some away after this is settled. Stuff grows FAST


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## J_T (Mar 25, 2011)

adrenaline said:


> ooo yeah i have hair algae blooms too!!! Thanks for the advice, will be reading the article shortly. I started getting hair algae, then the cyano blooms. I do have a couple bubbles or bubble aglae that came in on a peice of liverock, which stupid me popped... i've let them grow large enough to pick off now and will siphon those out while i'm picking them off.
> 
> They cyano has been gettin gbad for a while now. hopefully at it's worst... i'll reduce the feedings, and increase my water changes a bit to help lower nutrient levels. I do have a lot of macro algae in the tank. So much that I should probably give some away after this is settled. Stuff grows FAST


As an outsider, this is easy for me to diagnose.


> *Stuff grows FAST*


 If it is growing fast, its because you're feeding it! Not directly, but you are!

As you said, diligence will get rid of it! Once it has fed on all the nutrients, it will die off. This die off will actually start to feed it again! Make sure you keep the water changes going, and that the skimmer is doing its job!


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## adrenaline (Jan 17, 2011)

i've cut down on feedings, and i'm leaving the lights off for a few days. It's just some mushrooms, polyps and Zoa's in the tank for corals right now. Hoping they'll survive the blackout.

There is some natural light coming in, not directly as the tanks facing north (near front entrance of the house) but it's enough to allow you to see everything clearly during the day. Any thoughts on wether I should cover the tank up to give it a full black out?


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## Syed (Oct 20, 2010)

How old is the tank? Cyano lasted about 6 months and died down for me. Also I suggest having a blackout as well as sucking it up. The fluffy stuff is hair algae. Add more snails to the tank and make sure to use RO water as well.

Just like J_T said the cyano and hair algae should starve themselves eventually so keep doing regular weekly water changes and feed maximum twice a day. Also these aren't really bad unless they explode in area like yours. Sure they look ugly and gross but they export crap out of your tank and show that your tank has too much nutrients or is out of balance. Some positives lol.


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## altcharacter (Jan 10, 2011)

Alot of good advice but the only thing I don't recommend is a total blackout. I tried that once and it messed up my tank quite a bit since alot of die off happened. Think about it...things grow with light...no light and they die which causes a spike.

A slow down on lighting was suggested by another member here and I followed the instructions. First 2 days 1-2 hours of light then the next 3 days 2-3 hours of light. This will allow for whatever is inside the tank to sustain life but doesn't kill it. At this time you can do water changes little by little and suck out the cyano to ensure that it isn't being allowed to get out of hand. 

I went through 3 bouts of cyano over 6 months and I found this way to be the best bet to get rid of it.


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## J_T (Mar 25, 2011)

altcharacter said:


> Alot of good advice but the only thing I don't recommend is a total blackout. I tried that once and it messed up my tank quite a bit since alot of die off happened. Think about it...things grow with light...no light and they die which causes a spike.
> 
> A slow down on lighting was suggested by another member here and I followed the instructions. First 2 days 1-2 hours of light then the next 3 days 2-3 hours of light. This will allow for whatever is inside the tank to sustain life but doesn't kill it. At this time you can do water changes little by little and suck out the cyano to ensure that it isn't being allowed to get out of hand.
> 
> I went through 3 bouts of cyano over 6 months and I found this way to be the best bet to get rid of it.


I left my lights on. I am running a 400 watt metal halide! Left it for the 8 hours its normally runs for!

Just saying what I did! I don't think black out is "normal" for a reef! So, it shouldn't be done. Dimming, as suggested, I think is okay. It would be normal for a storm to last a few days at sea, so why not in our tank 

Just adding my 2 cents to the topic (guess I am up to a dime or so by now...)


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## adrenaline (Jan 17, 2011)

i did a black out for 2 days more or less with lights on for a short period during feeding. the tank does get some natural light though. I did find a thread online that suggested using only actinic lighting and no 10k lighting for a while. Does anyone know if there is any truth behind that?

Supposedly the Cyano needs the 10k spectrum, while my corals can survive on the actinic only for a while. 

I've increased circulation and started siphoning the cyano. Big Al's suggested some $40 powder that treats 900 gallons. Hard to justify it when i need to treat 29... however i prefer natural methods rather than throwing more things into an aquarium.

The tank is probably 12-14 months old now. this started up maybe a month or so ago, siphoned most of it out, and then it just exploded about 2 weeks ago. At this point i'm using the blackout theory, for the most part and siphoning/water changes. 

Thank you for all the advice!


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## lastadam (Jun 23, 2008)

*it's a lot of work but worth it*

Used to have a red cyano outbreak - nasty and thick on a few pieces of rocks. After a month of tank total blackout (there's natural light on the room) and feeding only every 2-3 days and doing 25% water changes and scrubbing off the cyanos using a toothbrush and adding an extra circulation pump, all the nasties finally disappeared for good. Make sure skimmer is efficient.


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## J_T (Mar 25, 2011)

Cyno BACTERIA. Unlike algae, light isnt a major contibutor to this problem. Food sources are. Nutrients, low flow are the big culprets. Cut back on feeding (food, additives, and anything else you're putting in the tank) evaluate the flow. Repossition power heads if needed. 

Time... It will go away on its own if you eliminate the enablers.

Posted with my Xperia, using Tapatalk 2


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## adrenaline (Jan 17, 2011)

I've been running just the actinic light for a few days now for shorter durations, and increased the flow. it looks like the cyano is starting to peel off the rocks a bit. I've lost some of my coraline, not a big deal really as it grows very fast in my tank.

My biggest concern is the corals. I have green star polyps, mushrooms, Zoa's and a Kenya tree. Does anyone know the effect low lighting conditions or only actinic lighting would have on them? I'm trying not to lose the corals.


My next step, which will happen during my next water change will be to use a soft bristle toothbrush and brush the rocs a bit to remove excess cyano. In a bucket of course. 

I just need to be careful brushing as I have brittle stars breeding like crazy in the tank. saw a whole bunch of little ones moving around the other day. dont want to hurt any of them...


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## altcharacter (Jan 10, 2011)

I had left a brief description of what to do in a post before but as usual not too many people listen to someone with experience. 

When you brush the cyano off the rock where do you think it's going to go? It's going to spread faster and worse.

As JT said the major factor with cyano is the poor water quality, not lighting. So as I said before, by shutting off your lights you're just making it worse since there is more die off and you're producing more nutrients for the cyano.

The only way to deal with cyano is to syphon the cyano out with a small tube and increase your flow.

Or put in red slime remover and hope to god it doesn't come back...but that doesn't solve the problem with nutrients. It would just rid the tank of cyano.

Good luck and hopefully this help...if you read it


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

altcharacter said:


> ...if you read it


more important if you will follow it.

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## altcharacter (Jan 10, 2011)

Ha, yeah very true Greg. Everyone has their ideas on how to deal with certain situations but as a guy who battled with cyano for 6 months I would have to say i'm somewhat of an expert with this bastard of a nuisance.


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## WiseGuyPhil (Jun 15, 2011)

Sorry for the late chime in. Not sure if this was mentioned but a great permanent solution is to get a GFO reactor. This will slowly take away much of the additional nutrients that create this type of bloom. An important thing to note is to do this process slowly; much like adding biopellets.

Just my two cents


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## Chromey (Sep 25, 2010)

GFO can only go so far...


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## J_T (Mar 25, 2011)

wiseguyphil said:


> Sorry for the late chime in. Not sure if this was mentioned but a great permanent solution is to get a GFO reactor. This will slowly take away much of the additional nutrients that create this type of bloom. An important thing to note is to do this process slowly; much like adding biopellets.
> 
> Just my two cents


This solution only fixes a symptom. If I go to the doctors with a bad cough, and he gives me a cough supresant, did he fix the problem? No, I will likely be sick for weeks, or worse! All he did was remove my symptom.

Same with algae, or cynobacteria. You can make it go away. But until you cut the source of it (and there has to be a source, or it wouldn't survive) you will never get rid of it!

All systems need some phos in them (or our corals would be completely white!) But the tank should be able to use it up. It is this reason that I run 1/2 cup of GFO on my 155. My phos got high (my fault) but normally the 1/2 cup can keep it near 0.


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## adrenaline (Jan 17, 2011)

it's slowly going away. When I mentioned brushing it off, I did not imply in the tank. I did a water change, put the live rock in the old water, brushed it off in one bucket of water, and gave it a dunk/rinse in a nother bucket before replacing it in the tank. I changed about 6-7 gallons in total.

1 bucket siphoned out the gravel, nice and mucky, where I brushed it off, a second bucket with distilled water (dont have an RO unit and walmart only had distilled) mixed with salt left overnight. The rinsing was done in the second bucket which was discarded after. I brushed off a few problem pieces. Next water change i'll brush off the remaining ones that are no where near as bad. I just didnt want to disturb my whole tank in one change.

Flow is up, AQ 70 running carbon, a sponge, and fluval Phosphate remover. I also have Purigen i can add (any thoughts on the Purigen?) a Maxi jet power head 1200 (smallest one you can get if i'm off on the model number) in circulation pump configuration, and an Aquen 500 series circulation pump. Lights are back on their timer. with 10k and actinic running again.

My fuge was started (HOB style being made from acrylic) which will be done eventually... keep procrastinating) will add about 8 gallons to the tank and will be braced on a wall behind the tank (not having 8 gallons hang off my aquarium lol)

The excess nutrients probably came in when I was on vacation. I had someone else feeding my fish. or may even be my own fault for over feeding. I was feeding 2-3 times a day, sometimes adding frozen foods as a supplement in between. Feeding is strictly twice a day now in small amounts, even once a day from time to time.

Only plus side to this is my starfish seem to be in heaven. I have baby bristle stars everywhere, and even Asterina Stars. don't see many of my hermit crabs now though. there were 10 small blue legged hermits. 2 turbo snails, and 1 random snail which came in on the liverock which is getting very large but seems to eat my algae from my glass. I dont clean the back wall much, so it's usually roaming there feasting away.

Thanks again to all of you for helping! Once everythings back in check I'll try to get some pics up.


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## WiseGuyPhil (Jun 15, 2011)

I agree with both points above as gfo on its own will not fix the problem. Also to your point when introducing any type or chemical or reagent it must be done slowly. I was just adding to the point of many reef hobbyists have been successful with it.


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## adrenaline (Jan 17, 2011)

the phosphate remover i'm currently using is Fluval Clearmax. Probably long overdue for a change since the cyano blooms though. prior to the bloom the tank was crystal clear and my coraline algae was doing awesome. 

We'll see how well it does with the change up now


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## adrenaline (Jan 17, 2011)

sooo... Did another Water change tonight... Something strange happend after.

After the water change and some more tank cleaning, moving some rocks around, and adding a small amount of trace elements/zoaplankton for my corals, which i havent done in quite some time, I notice an ABUNDANCE of brittle stars come out. 

Water flow is also up with the addition of a diatom filter to help with detritus floating around after moving around the rocks.

Did some research on them. Turns out I have a massive brittle star breeding frenzy in my tank. has to be well over 100 of them in there...

I'm hoping the massive release of sprem/eggs in my tank wont harm anything. Never thought i'd see somethign like this...

If all goes well, and i have no issues after this crazy breeding frenzy, i'll have to trap and sell/trade some of these guys. they range in size from fairly small to 3 inches across, and some look even larger.

I knew i had a lot of them in my tank, but not this much lol. pics didnt come out too well with the water being a little cloudy. Not sure if it's all due in part to detritus, or sperm/egg release from all of them...


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## J_T (Mar 25, 2011)

Since you are trying to win a battle with algae, adding elements, and zooplankton will feed the dying algae. Along with the debris from the rocks... Make sure the skimmer is doing its job!

Also, the diatom filter is for 'polishing' the water. Not so much for removing large debris.

Posted with my Xperia, using Tapatalk 2


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## adrenaline (Jan 17, 2011)

waters cleard up now. It was just a quarter dose of plankon which i neglected to dose for the past few weeks. I was skeptical on adding it, and it appears I shouldn't have.

However the Diatom was added to clear up cloudy water, which it did perfectly. There wasnt much large debris floating around. most of it was siphoned out, the rest (from the rock) was rinsed off in a bucket. I'm a stickler for crystal clear water though  

I think most of the cloudy water was due in part from my brittle star breeding frenzy. they all went back into hiding this morning. It's strange to see just how many there were last night, and to see barely any this morning though.

Almost all the puffy looking Cyano is gone from the tank now. Will keep up on the water changes and reduced feedings until everything is back in check. before adding my suppliments.

On a seperate note, I do have what appears to be a dark red coraline Algae spreading. Which is what i attributed the cyano to being at first. The cyano comes off everything very easy. with the brushing/scrubbing I did the Red Coraline looking stuff does not come off. From what I read online it seems it does better in Lower light conditions.

1. Does anyone have the Deep red coraline algae? I want to ensure it's not some weird hard cyano type thing.

2. If it's only growing near the bottom of my tank, and I like the look of it, should I be concerned in any way with it? Right now I have multiple shades or purple, some of the lime green, and the deep red coraline growing well.

My apologies for the super long posts. still relatively new to the marine world. Been into cichlids for ages. So much to learn in marine. the hard way for me most times


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## J_T (Mar 25, 2011)

adrenaline said:


> So much to learn in marine. the hard way for me most times


Ask first, buy second! You will save soooo much money!

So, you used the diatom filter for what it was designed for then. Thats good.

The other algae-thing, Not sure. I have some that sticks to one area, on one rock, and has never spread in years. Is mine the same as yours? Don't know. But it sounds like it.

I treat my tank like my fridge (bet I just had a bunch of you trying to figure out where I am going with this now.... LOL) When in doubt, throw it out!

Also, brittle stars to the best of my knowledge split themselves to reproduce. Not sure if they mass spawn. I have thousands... No kidding, If there was less than a six digit number of them, I would be suprised!


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## altcharacter (Jan 10, 2011)

There's no need to scrub cyano off rocks (for future reference) it should just come off with a small air-line hose and get sucked away. It literally is hanging there by a thread and I use to take it off my frags with a powerhead in a bucket of water.

I have the same dark red algae on some of my rocks that are deeper in the tank and it hasn't spread very far. I was thinking the same thing you were when I was battling the cyano then figured out it was a beneficial algae so now I leave it alone.

Sounds like the tank is back on track though, sorry to hear about your stress but it's really the only way we learn...right?


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## adrenaline (Jan 17, 2011)

For J_T, i thought brittle stars split too. I know my Asternia's do. I did a lot of reading on them last night and watched a bunch of videos which shoed the exact behavior and showed them releasing something into the water, which i'm assuming is sperm/eggs. Most likely any of this was removed by the Diatom lol. I don't need more brittle stars at this point with my massive colony in a small tank so I wasn't too worried about that.

I could still be wrong on that one, because I read a few articles claiming they split, and others claiming they release sperm/eggs into the water. The small ones I see in my tank have all legs/arms approx the same size which is what led to my assumption. 

When i first saw the release I though I messed somethign up badly and they were dying. I've seen SPS and Leather corals releasing things in the water when dying before.

As for Altcharacter, thanks for the reply. I'm not to stressed on it after hearing someone else has something similar. It did peak it's growth a while back and hasnt spread any further. The cyano came in on top of it.

My area of expertise is cichlids. so much easier than the marine world  Even without adding anything new to my tank in the last few months I find new critters and growths every now and then.


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## JulieFish (Apr 8, 2011)

Hey for what it's worth I did a water change on June 23rd and also witnessed a mass spawning of my brittle stars right after! It is the first time I have seen them do this, and it was quite conspicuous and very interesting. Now I'm wondering if the time of year (near the summer solstice) coupled with doing a water change might trigger it... cool either way.

I don't think I've done as much research as you recently but I know that starfish have the capacity for both asexual and sexual reproduction, so I figure my brittle stars use both. asexual is a great strategy for reproducing if you don't want to go to the trouble of finding a mate, but sexual is necessary to mix up the genetics and keep the species strong. Makes sense to use both if you can.

I have some cichlids too... but I find that marine is so much more intriguing to me!


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## Yami (May 1, 2011)

I will not say it again, the only way you can remove the algae you specified is water flow. Move your powerhead to area that needs to be treated.


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## J_T (Mar 25, 2011)

Yami said:


> I will not say it again, the only way you can remove the algae you specified is water flow. Move your powerhead to area that needs to be treated.


Water flow alone will not get rid of any algae. You need to starve it, along with the good flow. Otherwise, all you have done is ensure it has constant food being blown at it!


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## ecoleshill (Jan 22, 2009)

If your algae growth is being caused by high nitrates and phosphates (which I assume it is) I recommend trying Red Sea NO3O4-X Biological Nitrate and Phosphate Reducer. It works really well (but make sure you follow the dosing instructions).

I had a major spike in my nitrates 20+ and this helped me get things back under control within about 3 weeks.....


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## J_T (Mar 25, 2011)

ecoleshill said:


> If your algae growth is being caused by high nitrates and phosphates (which I assume it is) I recommend trying Red Sea NO3O4-X Biological Nitrate and Phosphate Reducer. It works really well (but make sure you follow the dosing instructions).
> 
> I had a major spike in my nitrates 20+ and this helped me get things back under control within about 3 weeks.....


Relying on adding anything is a bad idea! Yes, it can help put a bandaid on the problem, but the problem will come back if you haven't dealt with the cause.

The addition of the biological will eat up the excess nutrients that was feeding the algae. Once that is gone, yep, algae will die off. However, if you are still doing any of the following (including others I may have forgotten) Adding water from the tap, have an over stocked tank, have used rock from someone else, over feed.... the problem will come back.


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## ecoleshill (Jan 22, 2009)

Yes I absolutely agree, and I am not suggesting using this an an additive. However, if you values are off the chart this will help kill off all that extra nutrients in the tank to establish a new baseline.


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## J_T (Mar 25, 2011)

ecoleshill said:


> Yes I absolutely agree, and I am not suggesting using this an an additive. However, if you values are off the chart this will help kill off all that extra nutrients in the tank to establish a new baseline.


Wrong!

The algae its taking up those nutrients. Kill the algae, and you get rid of the only thing using them up! And, now the dead algae is adding to the mess!

Only reason to dose the problem away is purely selfish. To avoid seeing the algae. Trust me, it will go away! Just eliminate the food source. This will reduce the nutrients slowly (at the rate the algae consumes whats left), and rids the algae slowly. It will die off at a slow rate. As it starts to release from the rock, remove it. Its tempting to yank it out, but again, you are only removing the best way to get rid of the excess nutrients!

Posted with my Xperia, using Tapatalk 2


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