# A new build - with some ?'s



## Marz

I have a line on a 50g rimless tank. The tank will be used as a grow out tank in my makeshift office to replace my 10G frag tank. Until I finish all reno's, the 30G DT will remain which is ok, as the family loves having it there. My plan would be a mixed reef for grow out. I have been chatting back and forth regarding the overflow and the type that I would like to use. I have decided on the Stockman standpipe for my overflow based on some well guided suggestions I have received. I will have the overflow centred on the back of the tank and drilled on the bottom. I also only have an AIO and this tank will have a sump - I would like to use 30-40g tank. So my questions are as follows:

1. should I have a 1" drain or 1.25", 1.5" drain. I will assume that I can use a gate valve to control flow and if so this may give me a good option for greater flow adjustment?

2. I am planning on splitting the return (thanks Alt!) to come out on either side of the overflow using a "Y". My question is should I do a 3/4" return or 1" return. I was also planning on controlling the return flow with a controllable pump?

I will be building my own stand in between finishing the MB floors so that I don't get in too much trouble.

Appreciate any and all input as usual.


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## altcharacter

Here come the comments about why you should do a different type of drain!!!!!!


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## Marz

for everyone....I was setup  ....seriously though, I am sticking to the Stockman!


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## PaulF757

A Stockman, really, with all the options out there you went with a Stockman. LOL.couldn't resist.

Nothing wrong with a Stockman.


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## Marz

I haven't drilled yet, but yes. Simple and effective.


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## Addicted

If you are going with a stockman, the bigger the pipe the better to reduce noise/gurgling.


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## Marz

Thanks. I think that building from scratch and deciding is really harder than I expected. I may look for a used setup so that I can learn about sumps and overflows first. It probably will take alot of guesswork out of it for me.


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## wtac

Take the time to learn about the nuances and build a system to your particular desire. You'll be kicking yourself later as buying twice puts a bitter taste in one's mouth .


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## wtac

To anser your Q's

1.	should I have a 1" drain or 1.25", 1.5" drain. I will assume that I can use a gate valve to control flow and if so this may give me a good option for greater flow adjustment?
For a 50gal, 1" is fine for Herbie, assuming that you will be drilling for 2 drain lines. For a single drain, 1.5".
2.	I am planning on splitting the return (thanks Alt!) to come out on either side of the overflow using a "Y". My question is should I do a 3/4" return or 1" return. I was also planning on controlling the return flow with a controllable pump?
For a 50gal, you want a flow rate of 200-300gph @the determined head height for a 4-6x turnover rate.

I cannot recommend the "affordable" DC pumps that are out there as they still have kinks to work out for a consistent product. Eheim Hobby/Compact, Sicce Syncra, Tunze Silence, Fluval Sea SP series are what I would investigate to suit your needs. If the GPH is a bit on the high side, plumb a bypass with either a ball or gate valve, the latter if you want fine adjustability. This probably the last I will say about return pumps as it seems to be a recurring theme. I'll have to update and revive an old sticky I had on product/equipment recommendations.


HTH


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## sig

do you have this tank already?

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## Marz

Sig: no I have not bought it yet. Took your advice and went to Miracles (local to me) where I saw a 50g that I am interested in. I would then have them drill it.

wtac: thank you for this and the sage advice on purchasing and building what I want. Also, an updated sticky would be good! There are many opinions and articles, but your insight would certainly assist in my direction


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## sig

Marz said:


> Sig: no I have not bought it yet. Took your advice and went to Miracles (local to me) where I saw a 50g that I am interested in. I would then have them drill it.


Look at my eyes and repeat - I do not want 50G. Just my opinion, based on the previews experience with 50G tanks.
It is not long enough and deep enough to have a nice view with the big in tank overflow box. go at least 48x18x18 or 20
send me your phone # and will I call you to explain

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## Marz

Thanks sig - I will pm it, but if you don't can we talk after 5?


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## sig

Marz said:


> Thanks sig - I will pm it, but if you don't can we talk after 5?


for sure not now. I will call in the evening when you home

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## rburns24

sig said:


> Look at my eyes and repeat - I do not want 50G. Just my opinion, based on the previews experience with 50G tanks.
> It is not long enough and deep enough to have a nice view with the big in tank overflow box. go at least 48x18x18 or 20
> send me your phone # and will I call you to explain


-
+1
I think Greg is right. I had a 50 once, and the depth was too narrow to do much of anything with.
-


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## george

The 50G went as my sump and the DT is 75. Stick with what Sig is saying.... he went through several aquariums and know what he is talking about.


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## sig

rburns24 said:


> -
> +1
> I think Greg is right. I had a 50 once, and the depth was too narrow to do much of anything with.
> -





george said:


> The 50G went as my sump and the DT is 75. Stick with what Sig is saying.... he went through several aquariums and know what he is talking about.


Thank you guys 

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## Marz

Just a little update 



some background: When we bought this house there was a place that I immediately had wanted to put an aquarium. With young kids, we instead decided to do a built-in bookshelf that would house baskets full of the kids toys.



Fast forward today: Kids are older, they don't play with the toys as much as they used to.



wtac: thanks for the advice to build my own as I will get what I want. This is the direction we will be taking. Can't wait for the "equipment sticky" update - "wink wink nudge nudge"



sig: (I looked in your eyes) I very much appreciate the conversation. You were right, put the tank in the family room and upgrade my 30g. This was one of the first times that I took notes during a conversation about the hobby btw  I will be following many of your suggestions!



The "Marz" family had a discussion and the new DT will in fact go in the family room in the place where I had always wanted to put a tank. This will be a long build for a number of reasons - doing it right, financial, and time (I have a few reno's that I need to do so this will be packed in with one of them)



The space I have is 60" long and I have 18" wide. At a quick look this should afford me 100-110g. It will be located right on top of my workroom in the basement, so I will be putting the sump in that location. This will be great as size is not a problem, so I can dedicate a portion as a fish room. I also think that an autowater change may be the way to go - but I am getting ahead of myself.



I can't thank everyone enough so far. Preventing me from going down a path that I may have regretted is priceless to my "clan." We'll see where this goes


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## Marz

I am not sure if I should post in this thread, but might as well continue my questions. I took some pictures of the space that everyone has agreed will house our new tank.
The first pic shows the space at an angle so that the second picture can be looked at in context.

The entire built-ins will be removed. I can't go above 60" length as the tank will cover the light switch. The depth from the back of the wall to the brick is 17" (you can see my measurements in the 2nd pic). I was thinking 18" deep with a 1" hangover, but I believe that 18" limits what I can do with Rockwork. I could probably do 20".

The sump will go in the basement and I want to have the bottom drilled so that I can use the space efficiently.

What I need help with:
1. Based on the space I have, what dimensions would you recommend?
2. I am also thinking a corner overflow on the left-hand side of the tank where the brick is. It would not be noticeable since it would be against the brick (I think). Is this the best approach for the overflow in the space?

Pic 1 for depth context.










Pic 2 are the dimensions and what I am thinking










As usual member insight is very much appreciated.


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## sig

nice bookshelves 

why you say 18".? Probably your wife does, but I do not see any limitations to extend tank forward.

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## Marz

Yes, 18" is a discussion point. What depth would you recommend 20" or bigger?


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## sig

Marz said:


> Yes, 18" is a discussion point. What depth would you recommend 20" or bigger?


24 is the best IMO, because it is standard tank, but since there is a just 60X18X24 you do not have many choices. Until you go with 48x24x18 or...
first drive to Miracles and check what they have...

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## Marz

Thanks I will email Derek as I won't be able to make it this week. Maybe next week.


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## fesso clown

I really really wanted 24, my wife said 18 maximum as she didn't want the tank protruding too much into the dining area. We settled on 20 inches. I would rather have 24 but in reality we ended up with a great tank at 20" and it doesn't interfere with the room. 
60x20x20 would be a beautiful tank, originally that is what I wanted but Derek found some 96 inch starfire pannels in the boneyard and said I could go as long as I wanted for the same price. I went with 80 inches....
It won't be cheap if you don't get a standard size. 60x18x24 might be your best economical choice if you really want 60 long.


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## sig

Marz said:


> Thanks I will email Derek as I won't be able to make it this week. Maybe next week.


do not email. go there and talk to Derek and secretary will refer you the journeyman and he will show what they have. later discuss price with Derek id he is not there

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## fesso clown

+1
since you live in Orangeville that's a no brainer. I got a deal that I couldn't believe because I went in person. 

Also for stock tanks the 60x18x24 is your best bet but I really think that the proportions of that size are off aesthetically... it's too tall for the length and width. If you could get it cut down to 22" or 20 it would look so much nicer not to mention no more wet armpits.


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## sig

fesso clown said:


> +1
> since you live in Orangeville that's a no brainer. I got a deal that I couldn't believe because I went in person.
> 
> Also for stock tanks the 60x18x24 is your best bet but I really think that the proportions of that size are off aesthetically... it's too tall for the length and width. If you could get it cut down to 22" or 20 it would look so much nicer not to mention no more wet armpits.


he is smart.  he will ask to cut to 20 and put remaining 4" as euro brace

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## Marz

Sig gave me a great idea about eurobracing the tank, so it may be only 20" - 22" high. I agree adding additional depth (although only 2") would be much more please aesthetically. It won't stick out too much and we have measured many many times, and everyone is ok with it (20"). As you can see in the pictures that door leads to the front and the bedrooms, so it is high traffic. 24" would stick out too much, as we do like to run around the house 

So, 60" (I like this lenght) x 20" x 20" - 22"?


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## Marz

sig said:


> he is smart.  he will ask to cut to 20 and put remaining 4" as euro brace


I did take notes after all


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## sig

Marz said:


> So, 60" (I like this lenght) x 20" x 20" - 22"?


or 48x24x20 also would be nice and easy walking around and also save on lighting

got to Miracles first. probably they have 55x20 custom made and waiting for you..

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## Marz

Yes I will pop by next week for sure. I don't have to buy today, so I have some time...although today would be nice as it means it will really happen. 

On another note (and while I have your attention), will a corner overflow be ok in this length of tank? (as I mentioned, I wanted it to be in the corner by the brick so that the other sides are clear?


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## sig

Marz said:


> Yes I will pop by next week for sure. I don't have to buy today, so I have some time...although today would be nice as it means it will really happen.
> 
> On another note (and while I have your attention), will a corner overflow be ok in this length of tank? (as I mentioned, I wanted it to be in the corner by the brick so that the other sides are clear?


it will OK, but with one exception - you will never see what going inside this overflow and will have difficulties to clean/vacuum it

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## Marz

is there anyway around this -maybe talk with J_T and see if there is away to have a portion removable - such as the top half of the overflow?

I know you did tell me about this issue, but I would have it regardless of where it is in the tank with eurobracing...correct?


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## mattdean

If the brick will hide it, do. Coast to coast on the one side. It will give you better flow and more room to work. That is what I did with two drains and two returns.










Using the Herbie method it is dead quiet and works flawlessly. Just a suggestion.


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## Marz

I had thought about that, but since the tank will edge out from the brick by about 3" total, I am not sure that I could get away with that. It will have an interesting line of site when you enter the room from the kitchen if that "outside corner" corner is free and clear. I wonder if I could do 12" overflow that runs the width of the brick (large corner overflow)? 

Fricking great looking tank btw, very open and clean! I love peninsula tanks, so much viewing space.


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## fesso clown

I totally agree with Matt. You could set it up as if it's a peninsula, I would put the overflow at the brick end, make it C2C and do a Herbie or Bean Animal. That way if you ever do move it or blow out that wall you are good to go. Putting the overflow at the brick end will only cost you 5 inches of viewing space...


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## sig

and I totally disagree with Matt 

it is nice to have all sides open, when there is no wall behind it. It is better to have back panel darkened. Do not forget that you will not be able to clean back panel and it will look very dirty until you get it covered with Coraline, but it can take forever.
You can have tank peninsula style, but with darkened back and 90 degree removable black acrylic covering front glass of the overflow box.

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## Marz

As I get these suggestions I then go and sit in the FR to see how it would look. The couches are located across from the tank and beside the brick wall. The 5" would "block" a portion of the view from the couch. I am also thinking that maybe I do 2 corner overflows across the back like the picture below. I wouldn't lose any viewing angles.


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## fesso clown

You don't need duel overflows at all, why complicate it? 
Matt's C2C overflow is king for skimming but you could not do C2C and still have the overflow at the brick end. It makes for great flow dynamics as well, 1 Gyre on the opposite end pushes everything toward the overflow for surface skimming out to the sump. 
That's how my tank is set up, it's 60x20x20.




























Mine is set up as a peninsula but I have a wall behind it. I keep my back glass clean and get a wonderful reflection of a colourful blue hue.


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## Marz

I should have gone back to your post. I had forgotten about the pic on the ferry. That is exactly what I was thinking!


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## Marz

fesso clown: is your return coming from the overflow as well - if so, do you only have 1 return or split off into 2? I couldn't tell by your pics.


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## fesso clown

The return comes up through the overflow. I have a splitter in the locline so there are 2 spouts. I run a Herbie so there are 2x1 inch bulkheads for the drain, 1 is for the siphon the other is the emergency. There is 1 x 3/4 inch bulkhead for the return. I'll try to get a picture of it tomorrow for you.


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## J_T

Marz said:


> Thanks. I think that building from scratch and deciding is really harder than I expected. I may look for a used setup so that I can learn about sumps and overflows first. It probably will take alot of guesswork out of it for me.


Not always... Sometimes you are buying someone elses mess! They learned, moved on, and are recouping some of their loss!

As with all things, read first, buy second! Goes for everything! Literally! Cars, houses, pets, fish tanks! Know what you are getting into first!


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## Marz

J_T said:


> Not always... Sometimes you are buying someone elses mess! They learned, moved on, and are recouping some of their loss!
> 
> As with all things, read first, buy second! Goes for everything! Literally! Cars, houses, pets, fish tanks! Know what you are getting into first!


+1
Yes, Sig made me "look into his eyes" and WTAC told me to build what I want. So that is the direction now and the family is all in agreement


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## altcharacter

Sound advice

My first tank was an 8g and we were very happy
Next tank was a 20g with a 10g sump and it was ok, but not really happy
Current tank is 50g with a 20g sump and we're happy but could be better
Now the next tank is going to take atleast 4 months to get up and running because we have soooooo many plans!!! 

You can try to get it right the first time but really most people with tanks will eventually look at their first tank and come up with new ideas and solutions to things that need to be changed. Meaning, you won't really know what you want or need until you have a bit of experience.

Jump in already!

Oh, and come on down anytime and visit


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## Crayon

altcharacter said:


> Oh, and come on down anytime and visit


And as soon as you visit, you will be adding your name to the list of people buying the teenie tiny monti frag for 1000.00..........

Just saying.


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## sig

fesso clown said:


> You don't need duel overflows at all, why complicate it?
> Matt's C2C overflow is king for skimming but you could not do C2C and still have the overflow at the brick end. It makes for great flow dynamics as well, 1 Gyre on the opposite end pushes everything toward the overflow for surface skimming out to the sump.
> That's how my tank is set up, it's 60x20x20.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mine is set up as a peninsula but I have a wall behind it. I keep my back glass clean and get a wonderful reflection of a colourful blue hue.


Jeff, almost all tanks set up in this way, but how he will get/see/clean when required inside overflow box? he will have no access there because of the wall. 
That is what I am trying to articulate.

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## Marz

Crayon said:


> And as soon as you visit, you will be adding your name to the list of people buying the teenie tiny monti frag for 1000.00..........
> 
> Just saying.


It's already bee a struggle not adding my name


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## Crayon

Marz said:


> It's already bee a struggle not adding my name


You, too, will be assimilated. We shall call you "six of ten"


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## Marz

Lmao..."six of ten" wish I had that when I joined...great nic!


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## Crayon

Problem is, we are stuck at 5 right now. That makes the price of the frag 160.00 USD each. We need to get this down lower........Stick your name on the list! Ya know ya wanna.........


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## Marz

sig said:


> Jeff, almost all tanks set up in this way, but how he will get/see/clean when required inside overflow box? he will have no access there because of the wall.
> That is what I am trying to articulate.


Won't I have a problem with any overflow when using Eurobracing - or is there a specific location that is easier to clean?


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## Marz

I am just in the process of working with Derek @ Miracles to build a new tank. The dimensions need to be confirmed but so far we are thinking 60" x 20" x 24" (The family played with 24", but it juts out way too much from the wall of the fireplace - almost 9". We can live with 20" as that is as low as I am willing to go. This is approx 125 gallons. I don't believe I will be using starphire glass (unless a miracle happens  ). The tank will also be eurobraced.

Here's where I am at and would like some input. Since I have been stuck at home with sick kids (and missed the Fragfest  ), I have had plenty of opportunity to come up with some ideas as to the overflow, drain size, and return size. I am also including links so that when I look back, I can use the same references.

I will also include a drawings once I have completed the sketchup but also had some questions.

Oveflow
The overflow (and return) will be built on the left-hand side of the tank as that is where the fireplace brick work is and it won't be an eye sore.

One question that I have to get out of the way as I am having Miracles drill and do the overflow.
- how far in from the side and back will the tank need to be drilled in order to easily clear the stand framing?

Reading a number of articles and landing on this one: http://wetwebmedia.com/SystemPIX/PlumbingPix/Oneinchart.htm

I think that I am going to increase the hole size. My plan was to go with a herbie overflow as it seems simple yet effective. (My sump will be directly below so there will be no bends and I plan on using flexible PVC - PEX). I was thinking that I should use 1.5" drains (drain + Emerg). I will use a gate valve so that I can control flow to get a desired rate.

The Overflow can be 18" long (on the side) and 6" wide which will give me a linear flow of 24" (I think this is without teeth though). The 1.5" drains with this linear will give 1200gph. I shouldn't experience any loss as I mentioned since there will be no elbows. I am not sure about noise however.

Any thoughts on the above is greatly appreciated.

Return:
I don't know what size that I will do the return, but I would like to T it off in the overflow chamber and have 2 returns coming out of the overflow chamber. Any thoughts on this? I also don't have any equipment, so from a fitting standpoint, I should be able to accommodate the plumbing.


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## matti2uude

If you're going with 24 inch height I suggest you go and see some first. I have very long arms and I have a hard time reaching the bottom. You might like the 20 inch height better I know I would.


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## fesso clown

Marz said:


> I am just in the process of working with Derek @ Miracles to build a new tank. The dimensions need to be confirmed but so far we are thinking 60" x 20" x 24" (The family played with 24", but it juts out way too much from the wall of the fireplace - almost 9". We can live with 20" as that is as low as I am willing to go. This is approx 125 gallons. I don't believe I will be using starphire glass (unless a miracle happens  ). The tank will also be eurobraced.
> 
> 24 deep? have you considered a little shallower like 20-22, you're getting custom anyway... how long are your arms?
> 
> Here's where I am at and would like some input. Since I have been stuck at home with sick kids (and missed the Fragfest  ), I have had plenty of opportunity to come up with some ideas as to the overflow, drain size, and return size. I am also including links so that when I look back, I can use the same references.
> 
> I will also include a drawings once I have completed the sketchup but also had some questions.
> 
> Oveflow
> The overflow (and return) will be built on the left-hand side of the tank as that is where the fireplace brick work is and it won't be an eye sore.
> good choice, if you ever move it it can be set up as a peninsula
> One question that I have to get out of the way as I am having Miracles drill and do the overflow.
> you don't have to figure that out, they will do that for you
> - how far in from the side and back will the tank need to be drilled in order to easily clear the stand framing?
> if it's a 2x4 frame give your self 2 inches... again just discuss that part with Derek and he will tell you the optimal position for the holes
> 
> Reading a number of articles and landing on this one: http://wetwebmedia.com/SystemPIX/PlumbingPix/Oneinchart.htm
> 
> I think that I am going to increase the hole size. My plan was to go with a herbie overflow as it seems simple yet effective. (My sump will be directly below so there will be no bends and I plan on using flexible PVC - PEX). I was thinking that I should use 1.5" drains (drain + Emerg). I will use a gate valve so that I can control flow to get a desired rate.
> 
> With a 1.5 inch hole you will run with the gate nearly closed... a 1 inch hole with 18 inches od head will give you over 1400 GPH ( http://www.beananimal.com/articles/hydraulics-for-the-aquarist.aspx trust me you don't need 1.5 inch drain holes, you will save space this way too. Also a 1 inch gate valve is expensive, a 1.5 inch gate is really expensive.... and you will be closing it right up
> The Overflow can be 18" long (on the side) and 6" wide which will give me a linear flow of 24" (I think this is without teeth though). The 1.5" drains with this linear will give 1200gph. I shouldn't experience any loss as I mentioned since there will be no elbows. I am not sure about noise however.
> look at the link I posted above, that is what you need to calculate for a Herbie/B.A. you don't have to worry about linear flow at all
> Any thoughts on the above is greatly appreciated.
> 
> Return:
> I don't know what size that I will do the return, but I would like to T it off in the overflow chamber and have 2 returns coming out of the overflow chamber. Any thoughts on this? I also don't have any equipment, so from a fitting standpoint, I should be able to accommodate the plumbing.


I run between 5-8 times turn around through my sump, I have a manifold and run reactors off of it. I also divert water to my fuge. I run an Eheim 1262. Great pump, almost 3 years in service and quiet. I will add here that if I had 1.5 inch drains I would need a bigger pump and I'd end up with a faster rate through the sump which I don't want. 
Hope this helps


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## Marz

Great information. My current DT is 20" and you are right it is deep although I have long arms. I will cut the height down. 
I plan on going with a very large sump - I haven't read anywhere online where the sump size is accounted for so I assume that it doesn't matter?


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## fesso clown

I think the proportions would look better too at 20-22"


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## sig

Please correct me if I am wrong, but will you be able to maintain overflow box on the left, if needed?

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## Marz

sig said:


> Please correct me if I am wrong, but will you be able to maintain overflow box on the left, if needed?


Derek and I did talk about this. He believes that we could use a smaller "brace" on that side, but we still need to work that through. The overflow size I was thinking is 18" long (following the side of the tank) and 6" deep - this also still needs to be decided.


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## sig

Marz said:


> Derek and I did talk about this. He believes that we could use a smaller "brace" on that side, but we still need to work that through. The overflow size I was thinking is 18" long (following the side of the tank) and 6" deep - this also still needs to be decided.


is there any particular reason to have 18" overflow inside the tank and create eyesore an take useful space? Are holes will be on the bottom?

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## Marz

The holes will be on bottom. I am just finishing up the picture so that everyone can visualize. If I don't have to do 18" long, then great! To your point sig, if I can do smaller than that's better


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## Marz

Here are some pics that I put together for the tank from a few angles. I made a mistake on the hole sizes (drilled) as my understanding for 1" drain and one 1" emergency that you would need to drill 1.75" holes for the bulkheads. I will correct this.

Sig: based on the drawing, what size would you make the overflow chamber (instead of 16" long like the drawing)?


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## sig

I like it. I am not able to tell you how long overflow will be in this case, because juts Miracles knows what acceptable distance between holes. I assume 3 holes are drain, emergency, returm.
I would go with 3/4 return line splits in 2, but...

I prefer returns perpendicular to the front panel, because they are less visible in this way.
I also think they prevent normal flow to the overflow box, when run from the same box.

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## Marz

sig said:


> I prefer returns perpendicular to the front panel, because they are less visible in this way.
> I also think they prevent normal flow to the overflow box, when run from the same box.


Very interesting point.


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## fesso clown

Talk to Derek about this stuff. He'll know all the options, pros and cons. 
Looks great, that is exactly how my tank is set up.


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## Elder1945

Well I hope you do not mind but this is what I came up with . I believe the same foot print as what you did. The stand was quick so just an idea...


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## Marz

Love sketchup. I will use the drawing when I go talk with Derek and make sure that I have my questions ready.

Elder1945: Of course I don't mind. Wife is not so interested in the angular design  You must have far more practice at sketchup as I couldn't get that together as fast as you did


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## mattdean

When I did this, i did a coast to coast, so i could have two drains in the middle and two split returns on either side. Running a herbie method, it's dead quiet and I have great flow, great skimming and my tank looks great. I just painted the outside black and you don't even notice it. I have no problem maintaining it. It's a 60 X 24 X 20.

here it is before being plumbed










This was with a Durso set up










another benefit is the extra bracing makes the tank a "tank"! For the euro bracing, I only did 3 sides, then had some acrylic cut to pat a lid and give the impression of the eurobrace going all around the display.


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## Elder1945

Marz said:


> Love sketchup. I will use the drawing when I go talk with Derek and make sure that I have my questions ready.
> 
> Elder1945: Of course I don't mind. Wife is not so interested in the angular design  You must have far more practice at sketchup as I couldn't get that together as fast as you did




Is this better lol....


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## Marz

Yes, for me. However, since this is a family affair, I have to provide shelves for baskets...since that is what the stand will be replacing. I am ok with that, so here is the rendering of what the family will be satisfied with. Still will allow me enough room in the back to create a "false" wall so that I can run plumbing, etc down to the basement. I am hoping that I can do a high gloss paint, but we will see.

I am also going to have 2 tops made of glass so that any jumpers will be safe. I want them lifted off the tank with rubber feet. (can't depict that very well in the pic though. (Elder1945 - similar to what you had done on your 8').


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## sig

Marz said:


> I am also going to have 2 tops made of glass so that any jumpers will be safe. I want them lifted off the tank with rubber feet. (can't depict that very well in the pic though.[/IMG]


wet hands, etc - glass knock on the glass and your tank is gone

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## fesso clown

if it's jumpers you're worried about you would be better off with screen. 
http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/index.php/video/view/diy-screen-top-instructions/
cheap, easy, safe.


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## Marz

I already have a glass top in my small DT, but I get what you guys are saying and warning me of. I may talk with JT, I would prefer a clean/clear look at the top. That said I haven't seen how the screen will look.


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## fesso clown

JT makes clear acrylic screen frames, very clean looking, that's the route I am going. Having a glass top is said to impede c02 exchange.


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## sig

you will never have a clean/clear look, but it will change how light reaching corals

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## Marz

This may be a ridiculous question, but this tank will be viewed mostly from the couches and chairs in the family room. With a height of a 40" stand, 22" tall tank, the light will sit roughly (guessing of course) at 76". Will we be looking directly at the bulbs from a sitting height? I don't want to look at the tank and then have the bulbs shining in anybody's eyes. For instance, will our line of sight to the tank be disrupted by seeing the bulbs directly. I can easily make a lower stand (29").

Thoughts?


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## sig

29 or 40 does not matter, because I do not think your head will be at 50" when you sit on the coach.

but,

40 + 20 it is to high IMO.

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## Marz

sig said:


> 29 or 40 does not matter, because I do not think your head will be at 50" when you sit on the coach.
> 
> but,
> 
> 40 + 20 it is to high IMO.


Yes, the lights would sit quite high and I think that when you look at the tank from a sitting position you would see right under the lights and the bulbs would be a nuisance. I am not sure how to mock this up, but when looking at my small DT in the kitchen from a sitting position and the light at roughly 65" ( my wife held it up) you look directly at the bulbs (LEDs) of the light. A lower tank at the 29" mark + 20 or 22" for tank) sits just under 60" with lights, so the bulbs wouldn't be in your face (yes the plan is T5's).


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## sig

T5s is much easier on eyes that LEDs. you can check when in my area. I have the same scenario - coach, lights, but not so high

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## Marz

Perfect! Thank-you.


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## sig

I just remember a month ago you asked me about another small tank... and now 125 is in works. 

I just hope your wife does not hate me, as probably many others 

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## Marz

Well, she is aware of our conversation, but the blame lies solely on me  We had always talked about a tank when we bought the house. However, now that I am building a fish room and will have a water change station, big sump, tearing down the built-ins, I am making her edgy... lol.

but yes, I went from a little tank to something substantial (for me at least). I don't believe that this hobby will be going away as there is always something to learn, and the potential to create living art is very attractive.


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## mattdean

I view my tank from the sitting position as well and use a T5 with Reefbrite XHO Actinic led's on each side. The light basically sits on the eurobrace. It's a clean look and I can't see any bulbs, not to mention, my corals love the light. I get great growth and colour.


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## Marz

How high is you stand?


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## mattdean

Stand is about 31" high. I have a 20" high tank. Here it was when I started. The LED strips are on the edges angled down and fill in the gap.


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## Marz

Excellent, I may do a 29" stand or 30". But before I settle on height, I am going to invade other members tanks to see how they are setup and viewing angle etc. 
I am also thinking pretty much the same light setup as yours, but that is still tbd.


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## mattdean

Just be careful to make sure you can get your skimmer out. I can't get the body of mine out because I had to change my plumbing while building it. The 8 bulb T5 and LED strips are a great combo. I get fantastic growth and colour and I love the clean look of the light.


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## Marz

Sump is going in basement so I am safe with the stand height. 8 bulb - is that because the tank is wider (looks to be 24" minimum)?


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## sig

mattdean said:


> I view my tank from the sitting position as well and use a T5 with Reefbrite XHO Actinic led's on each side. The light basically sits on the eurobrace. It's a clean look and I can't see any bulbs, not to mention, my corals love the light. I get great growth and colour.


 how is it possible to have clean light cover/reflectors in this position? I have lights around 1' above water and it always some drips on the protective acrylic.

i also have to dive in the tank few times a day 

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## mattdean

It's not too bad. At the moment, and for the last few months, I don't even have the protective acrylic on the light. It seems manageable.


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## Marz

Small update. 
I haven't confirmed tank with Derrek as work/life has been hectic. I was however able to clean up my tool room and move the majority into my workshop (other side of left wall in picture) including some mobile benches and all my hand tools. I still have to take down the bench on the left side and organize the "accessories" that are left on the bench. The room is approx 14' x 18' of usable space. The front wall is directly underneath where the tank is going. I will be putting my sump(s) for the tank directly underneath, water change units in the left hand corner. All electrical will be pulled from a separate breaker box that serves my woodshop, as long as I have enough free - my electrician will tell me 

I am going to frame up the wall on the right as that is my furnace. It will have to be a movable wall as all work on my geothermal is done on that side. All walls will be lined with bathroom drywall - moisture resistant. If I have to I can vent out the house back wall, but we'll see.
My sump is at the back wall in my cold cellar, so I will either use that or setup a pump to push waste water out to my septic.
Already putting together an equipment list, but that's for another day as I am sure there will be many suggestions


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## Marz

Bought an deltec ap902 for an amazing price. May be too big, but my plans are to have close to 250 in actual SW with DT and sumps.


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## fesso clown

Marz said:


> Bought an deltec ap902 for an amazing price. May be too big, but my plans are to have close to 250 in actual SW with DT and sumps.


Nah, sounds perfect especially if you can fit it and got a super deal. It's a recirculating skimmer right? 2 circ pumps and a feed?


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## Crayon

Just noticed you mentioned you are on a septic. We are too. We don't flush our waste water or any salt water into the septic. It killed our system a year ago and had to clean it out. We now have a separate discharge line which goes out to a ditch and keeps the salt water out of the septic.
So keep an eye on your septic.
We also discharge the waste water from the RODI to the same place to keep the excess water out of the septic, too.


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## Marz

How much waste do/did you discharge per week?


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## Marz

fesso clown said:


> Nah, sounds perfect especially if you can fit it and got a super deal. It's a recirculating skimmer right? 2 circ pumps and a feed?


Yes. 2 pumps and a feed. My understanding is that I can gravity feed it as well, or a 3rd pump came with it. 
Just trying to accumulate stuff as I go along as I am in no rush.


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## Crayon

Marz said:


> How much waste do/did you discharge per week?


We prep 50 gallons RODI per week, average.
Weekly water change approx 50 gallons. If we get lazy, every 2 weeks.
Plus any waste water from quarantine, or dipping or skimmer gunk. Well, actually the skimmer gunk mostly goes into the septic. Some stuff does get washed in the sink.


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## Marz

Thank-you. I haven't heard about it affecting a septic in all my research, so I very much appreciate your comments as I am going to have a much bigger system.


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## Crayon

Check out information on the use of water softeners and septic systems. Water softeners are much more common than marine tanks on septic systems and most septic companies will give you guidance on what to do with a water softener. the softener uses salt, too although not as much as a marine tank. our septic company told us not to put the discharge from the softener into the septic when we set it up. Didn't say anything about wate water from a fish tank. That we had to figure out for ourselves.


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## Marz

As you can see it has been almost a year since I have been "attending" this site regularly. It's interesting how life has a way of "interrupting" our hobbies. None the less, with a few changes, I will be re-starting my build thread as we (read family) have decided that we have a much needed renovation that will take place. I am still limited in terms of length of tank, but it will be a semi in-wall tank. I only have 5' length to play with, but the fish room will now be directly behind the tank, so if I can do wider than the standards I will. I have done some research on standard tank sizes as I MUST keep the build price down.

I am going to go back to Miracles and hope that I can find a 5' long tank that is wider than normal (maybe in the tank ruins in the back). I can do 60" x 24" x 24", but would love to find a 30" or 36" wide tank.

I have currently amassed a deltic ap 902 skimmer, sump from Paul, 60 gallon tank, and a smart ATO. Still have to buy water barrels for automatic water changes, pumps, and of course a tank.

Hopefully nothing else comes up that prevents me from moving forward on this build.


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