# Help with my 150g planted tank



## NVES (Apr 21, 2010)

Good day all,

Well I am in need of some assistance - I'll post all the details of my setup below.

I've had my 150 gallon tank running for 8 months now, in the beginning my plants were growing fine and then Nov-Dec my plants started deteriorating and now I'm left with pretty much just stalks. 

I have had no issues with the fish in the tank, just the plants. In the past two weeks I've changed my bulbs, added root fertilizer tabs, and started a weekly dosing regime of 2 tsp Florish Excel, 1 tsp of KN03, and 1/4 tsp of KH2P04. 

So far things aren't getting better. My goal is to have a nice thinkly planted tank, looking to get lots of vals growing - but they don't last they just disintigrate (sp). I'm also trying to avoid going with a pressurized co2 system.

So what am I doing wrong? What should I be doing? Any assistance is greatly appreciated!

Thanks,
Aaron



My setup:
150g - 48"x30"x24"
eshopps wet/dry filter and overflow - approx 1000 GPH
48" - 4x65w coralife power compact fixture ([email protected],700k; [email protected],000k and bulbs replaced Jan 10-11) with 4 blue LEDS. Before the bulb change I did have [email protected],000k and [email protected]
Pool filter sand for substrate (~1" thick)
Driftwood

Fish Stocking:
6 Giant Danios; 15 Brilliant Rasboras; 30 Cardinal Tetras; 20 Silver tipped Tetras; 12 Bolivian Rams; 20-25 Amano Shrimp; 5 Nerite Snails; 2 Apple Snails; 3 BN Plecos.

Plant Stocking:
1 amazon sword; 2 moneywort; 2 moss balls; 1 red hygro.

Test results from last night before a water change 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, 5 nitrate. 

I have been doing bi-weekly 50% water changes, and am now starting (2nd week) of doing weekly 20-25% water changes.

Fertilizers - into 2nd week. Weekly add 2 tsp Florish Excel, 1 tsp of KN03, and 1/4 tsp of KH2P04.


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## noved (Jul 14, 2009)

A your light is borderline for a 30" high tank. It could work but not without a good constant supply Co2. I didn't want to invest in it either, but I'm glad I did. Adding the ferts without co2 is pretty much futile. Just my opinion and by no means the answer to your problem.

Can I ask where you got your tank and roughly how much. I'm looking for a 48" 150g myself.


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## Rmwbrown (Jan 22, 2009)

I'm not familiar with that wet/dry filter, but normally it is not worth adding pressurized Co2 if your wet/dry is just going to gas off everything you have been adding.

Normally i would say you should start by growing plants that have the tolerance of a weed. I.E. Vallis. By no stretch of the imagination would i be surprised if you could grow that on the dark side of the moon. So it seems pretty odd that it is dying. Something strange is a foot.

I would start out with the basics.

1. Check your your water hardness. If your water is very soft your vallis will die. If this is the case, you need to start using a GH booster of some description.

2. Figure out how much Co2 you have on hand by gathering you PH and KH and then cross referencing the two variables on a Co2 chart. I'm not sure that we have one posted here, but here is one from another forum.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/fertilizers-water-parameters/23531-co2-chart.html

If your Co2 is grossly low, you'll need to do something about that filter.

3. Build up your root bed. you need more then an inch in there if your going to be growing root feeders and using root tabs. Most root tabs need to be covered by at least 4cm of substrate or they will leach into the tank and cause problems with algae.


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## Rmwbrown (Jan 22, 2009)

As another side note, how high is this tank? 30" high or 24"? If it is over 24" those lamps probably won't be getting light to the bottom of the tank.


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## NVES (Apr 21, 2010)

Thanks all.

Yes the height of my tank is 30" - lots of fun trying to reach down to the bottom!

Just this week I'm only using 1 set of bulbs, so I've reduced lighting to 2x65 watts, but I haven't noticed any change.

I haven't check for water hardness or PH, but will do so this weekend.
I don't understand why the vals won't take in my tank. I have another 10 gallon and the vals are long and thick - this is what I'm trying to accomplish as with a tall tank the lenght of thick vals would look amazing!

Is a potential source of issue my substrate? I've got about 1" maybe 1.5" of pool filter sand. Should I look at changing it?

On the wet/dry filter - there isn't that much surface agitation. If I did go with co2, how much would I lose b/c of the wet/dry, 25%, 50%?

From all the reading I've done the forum responses, and what I'm trying to achieve - all signs are pointing to going with a co2 system. Although I am quite stubbourn and will resist right til the end.

So is there anything else that I should be doing or changing?

Thanks,
Aaron


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## Rmwbrown (Jan 22, 2009)

The difficulty is when your trying to figure out a problem with your tank, you often try to address several possibilities, often making costly purchases that will not/do not address the problem. By no means do you need Co2 to grow vallis, and i have grown it without a problem with a wet/dry canister filter without Co2 on 1.5 watts per gallon. 

Nor will decreasing your lights help, given the low light your working at removing lights will only make things worth in this situation. 

To answer this question in a comprehensive fashion, the reason why this plant isn't growing is probably due to several potential factors. 

1. The wet/dry filter gassing of any and all c02 being produced by the fish and that is present in the water after the water change. (new filter and/or Co2 injection near the return or in the inflow - you would need to speak to someone that has used Co2 on a sump).

2. You substrate is terrible, thin, prone to compacting, and is quite possibly anaerobic. At this point in the tanks life span, there could be zero oxygen in your sand, and a bacteria is now producing an acid that is rotting the plants from the inside out. (pull out all the sand and add a new sub. - flourite or eco-complete or gravel with root tabs, and trumpet snails to keep it mixed up in the future )

3. Your light is not penetrating the 30", and the lack of light is causing the plat to rot from the bottom up. (new light, T5HO or MH are the only two option that will penetrate this deep, or build up the bottom of the tank so the water colum is only 20-24" deep).

4. Water hardness.. your water is crazy soft and the vallis is dying - this is not probable if it is growing fine in another tank with the same water source. 

Given the size of your tank, none of these are cheap fixes with the exception of the last so you need to do some testing and figure out what the problem is. 

Poke your sub with a butter knife and wiggle it around a little. Does it release the smell of rotten eggs? Test Gh and Kh. Test for CO2


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## NVES (Apr 21, 2010)

Ok thanks, I've got some work to do now, and more reading.

Question - how do I test for co2? Is it based on the table b/w pH and water hardness?

I was worried about the sand substrate, so I will look into my options to changing it.

I do not want to change the light, as I just spent $120 on new lights 3 weeks ago. But will investigate options for T5 HO setup.

Thanks again - I will also try to post some pics this weekend.

Take care,
Aaron


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## Rmwbrown (Jan 22, 2009)

BTW: Another side note, given i just realized where your situated. Under no circumstances listen to anything anyone tells you at the BIG AL's in Newmarket, aside from the young lady that works in the fish room. No one has a clue in that place.


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## NVES (Apr 21, 2010)

Thanks for the advice. I learned a long time ago to get advice from several different people and come up with your own plan.

I know most of the guys at Al's, they're ok, but not as knowledgeable as the people on forums such as this one.


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## fishclubgirl (Mar 4, 2010)

I vote for adding the flourite and some gravel to your substrate and keeping all the lights on!! Keep fertilising and if you want, add some root tabs later. I'm a big fan of the "kiss" principle and want to make plant keeping fun for you!!


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## NVES (Apr 21, 2010)

Can I just add florite or other gravel on top of the sand that I have?
Or should I be looking at removing the sand I have and start completely new?
Or somewhere in between?

Thanks,
Aaron


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## Tropicana (Feb 15, 2009)

I just want to mention, I have an 180 gal with the basic light(120watt) and i have never done ferts/co2 and have grown vals and stargrass anubias/java quite well. I also use sand as a substrate. 

So in my experience I have no clue how I did it. Besides having a low stock of fish and my crappy light with a 30% wc every month. Its a mystery to me. 

Now that i have moved though everything is all messed up and i believe the water chemistry here is not the greatest for plants.

Last house must of had golden water...

I hope you have better luck upgrading your stuff and We should definitely see a photo when your done lol.


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## Lee_D (Jun 11, 2010)

So how about some pictures? I'm curiuos to see how the tank evolved after the last few months. If I remember right, you had something suspended in the middle of the tank in some driftwood. If you think the light is not getting deep enough I'd put some gravel and a couple of vals in a plastic dish (I got some at a dollar store) and suspend it higher in the tank. That way you can see if it makes a difference.

Lee


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