# "Death by moss"



## Exquizique (Nov 19, 2012)

So all is going well with my first little 10g tank. 20 odd RCS usually look pretty lively and have about 2 Malaysian Trumpet Snails in there too. A few days ago I added 6 Cardinal Tetras to the tank. Initially they seemed nervous and stuck around each other, but eventually they settled in nicely and seem to enjoy poking around the tank plants and ornaments ... nice lively little guys and very interesting to watch. They seem to get along well with the shrimp. 

Anyways, this morning, I sat down by the aquarium again and did my daily "first thing in the morning once over" to see how everyone is doing and feed them. I counted only 5 cardinals. Last thing before bed last night there were definitely 6 lively cardinals swimming around. I scoured the tank and squinted and tried to figure out where the 6th went. Didn't see any dead fish bodies, so was really puzzled. 

Finally, upon a hunch and shining a light under a bridge ornament I have in the tank where there's a fairly dense clump of Java Moss sticking out of it, I saw a glimmering neon blue reflection. Mystery solved: the 6th little Cardinal was somehow caught in the middle of the Java Moss clump!

So I wiggled the Moss out from under the bridge and tried to free the little Cardinal -I had thought it was dead until it twitched and somehow managed to swim or jerk itself out of the Moss when I spread the Moss out. Then it just laid at the bottom of the tank on the gravel somewhat sideways. It was breathing but looked like it was struggling. It kept twitching every now and then. I felt horrible but wasn't sure what to do so i left it alone and hoped that maybe it would recover.

Well it's a few hours later now in the middle of the day and it looks like it's not going to make it  It's losing its colouring and twitching less, although it does seem to be still breathing. 

I'm not sure what happened to it and why it would get right into the middle of a tangle of thick Moss. Anyone had something like this happened before????

In the meantime, should i just leave it to expire on its own in the tank? Or fish it out and euthanize it? Or ....?? I feel so bad for the little guy, don't even know what happened overnight


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

very hard choice. Do you wait and see if it might recover still or just put it out of its misery? I would leave it unless you are 100 percent positive that it won't make it.


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## df001 (Nov 13, 2007)

If its sideways my guess is it had some sort of swimbladder issue before you put it in the tank and stress of relocation is doing it no favors. If it were me i'd probably euthanize.

What temp are they at?


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## Exquizique (Nov 19, 2012)

pyrrolin said:


> very hard choice. Do you wait and see if it might recover still or just put it out of its misery? I would leave it unless you are 100 percent positive that it won't make it.





df001 said:


> If its sideways my guess is it had some sort of swimbladder issue before you put it in the tank and stress of relocation is doing it no favors. If it were me i'd probably euthanize.
> 
> What temp are they at?


Thanks for the responses guys - unfortunately about 30 minutes after i posted it just gave up and died in the tank  So sad for the little guy since the rest of them appear to be doing really well. Tank temperature is around 26-27C.

That said, I fished it out, and made a trip back to Big Al's (where i got them). They replaced it and i got an extra one along with it to go (2 more cardinals in total).

One of them was nice and lively and shoaled with the others already there once in the tank, seem to be feeding well too, but the other one is ... well, acting really odd and i'm wondering if anyone might know what could be the problem:

It looks physically fine, colouring normal, no damaged fins or anything that I can tell. However, it doesn't appear able or willing to swim much. When i watch it it appears that it gets "blown around" by whatever current is in the tank (which is not much since the little shrimps make their way around just fine). It can swim, and does in short little spurts, but it'll be floating around at odd angles (head downwards or upwards) and get "blown" into plants and decor.

What could be the problem??? Does it have some kind of disease?? Should I remove it?? I'm rooting for it and hope it sorts itself out, but I have a feeling there's a great chance it's not going to make it through the night  Feeling really bummed with potentially losing yet another fish so soon for "mysterious" reasons ...


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

I would immediately move it to a quarantine tank just to be safe, this is not a healthy fish. Could just be stressed from being moved around or could have a disease or something.

Sometimes new fish are just going to die no matter what you do. They have the stress of being shipped to the store and then the stress of being almost caught and then finally caught in the store, then moved to your home.

Its a hard life


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

Just curious, what size are those cardinals?

Also, no healthy fish is going to get trapped by java moss, your previous cardinal most likely died of other issues.

Nevertheless, it's normal to experience some initial die offs when getting new fish. So far, 2 out of 8 isn't so bad.

If you haven't done so yet, do some research on common fish diseases, especially ich and columnaris, and learn to recognize the symptoms.


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## Exquizique (Nov 19, 2012)

pyrrolin said:


> I would immediately move it to a quarantine tank just to be safe, this is not a healthy fish. Could just be stressed from being moved around or could have a disease or something.
> 
> Sometimes new fish are just going to die no matter what you do. They have the stress of being shipped to the store and then the stress of being almost caught and then finally caught in the store, then moved to your home.
> 
> Its a hard life


Poor little guy as predicted didn't last the night  It appeared to be a little better right before i went to bed, almost looked like it was trying to feed, so i crossed my fingers and left him alone. Found him plastered to the side of the filter intake when i woke up in the morning  RIP little guy ...



solarz said:


> Just curious, what size are those cardinals?
> 
> Also, no healthy fish is going to get trapped by java moss, your previous cardinal most likely died of other issues.
> 
> ...


They are roughly 1" in size. Yeah i figured the first one that died had some pre-existing issue, it was weird that a lively little fish like that could get stuck in java moss. It just took me by surprise as i didn't notice any weird behaviour before hand ...

Oh well, the rest of the half dozen look active and inquisitive, so hopefully no more sudden mysterious deaths! I did get a whole bunch of books on fresh water aquarium care from the library and have been slowly working through them over the holidays  If things go well for the next few months i'm perhaps going to start thinking about planning for the next tank ...


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

Exquizique said:


> If things go well for the next few months i'm perhaps going to start thinking about planning for the next tank ...


lol, and this is how it starts!


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## Exquizique (Nov 19, 2012)

solarz said:


> lol, and this is how it starts!


LOL yes looks like I'm going to be an inevitable victim of MTS before long if things continue to go well ... working on getting the husband on board with a bigger tank 

By the way, the husband keeps asking me if "the guy at Yonge and Finch" has any more shrimp for sale - he's grown really attached to the ones we got in the tank and wants more LOL. I told him that you aren't exactly a store so we'll have to wait till there's more available ... perhaps he'll get his own shrimp tank for Christmas next year or something LOL


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

Exquizique said:


> LOL yes looks like I'm going to be an inevitable victim of MTS before long if things continue to go well ... working on getting the husband on board with a bigger tank
> 
> By the way, the husband keeps asking me if "the guy at Yonge and Finch" has any more shrimp for sale - he's grown really attached to the ones we got in the tank and wants more LOL. I told him that you aren't exactly a store so we'll have to wait till there's more available ... perhaps he'll get his own shrimp tank for Christmas next year or something LOL


LOL I'm glad you guys like the shrimps. Tell your husband to be patient. If all goes well, your tank should be overrun with cherry shrimps in a month or two!


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## Exquizique (Nov 19, 2012)

solarz said:


> LOL I'm glad you guys like the shrimps. Tell your husband to be patient. If all goes well, your tank should be overrun with cherry shrimps in a month or two!


I hope so! I couldn't tell if that first female that was carrying eggs when it arrived dropped the eggs or not, if they hatched, or if any little shrimplets survived. There was a period of a few days after that when the heater broke down and things went wonky in the tank for a bit, and I had a few casualties ... but all is looking good for the last little while so fingers crossed!


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

MTS, multiple tank syndrome

Watch out, in advanced cases you start looking around and thinking opening a fish store is a good idea! 

There are several support groups going under the name of "fish clubs" or "reef clubs", but it just seems to spread the illness.

How to know if you are infected? Top 10 symptoms
1) You have a fish tank in every room, or more. Severe cases even have them in the closets and pantry.
2) You have many empty fish tanks in storage, closets, your car, attics, or even just under your kitchen table (or AS your kitchen table) Your bathtub is full of buckets, fish nets, and other accessories (or even has fish in it!) adn your faucets have permanent python attachments
3) When you see an add for a great deal on a tank, you cannot pass it up
4) While you are setting up your new tank you are already planning your next one
5) When you sell a fish tank you end up with two more 
6) You start to push tanks on your friend so you have someone to talk to and someone to trade with!
7) You have boxes of extra parts, or broken items, you hang onto "just in case"
8) You have so many tanks, you start to disassemble them for parts for sumps (for the next tank)
9) You know how to brace a floor to support more tanks, know how to build your own tanks and sumps, and can plumb a tank or reseal a tank in your sleep!
10) You walk into an aquarium, count their tanks, and ask "Is this all you got?"

Cure: there is none. Once you got it, you cannot get enough tanks, ever. You have to sell ALL and go cold turkey, and if you try "just one" tank you are overrun again in no time. Setting up a fish store does not work as you still want MORE and get frustrated with customers or being open because all you really want is the tanks, and you can try aquarium maintenance, but get frustrated with the actual owners for messing up "your" system LOL

Oh, some other signs that are runners up for the top 10 list: You start putting tanks in the wall, drill holes in walls and floors for plumbing and automatic water changes, the fish store knows you by name, your hands are permanantely wrinkeld from always being in the water, and you cannot sleep without the sound of running water

Source(s):

Fish Store Owner
Suffering from a bad case of MTS


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## Playing God (Dec 13, 2012)

A wee bit of a hijack, but hilarious. Thanks...

Other symptoms of aggressive MTS:

You're the only member of your family that insists your house smells "normal."
You don't have a water change day, you have a day of water changes.
BOTH of your fridge drawers contain fish food.
You buy PRIME by the gallon... and still run out.
Your insurance policy mentions water damage more often than fire hazard.
You need a calculator to guess your current fish count.



pyrrolin said:


> MTS, multiple tank syndrome
> 
> Watch out, in advanced cases you start looking around and thinking opening a fish store is a good idea!
> 
> ...


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## Exquizique (Nov 19, 2012)

LOL!! I just hope MTS doesn't hit me too hard too soon - unfortunately my pocketbook doesn't expand exponentially like the desire for multiple tanks seem to do


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

What's really disturbing is how many tanks one can actually fit into a very small space, if one tries. I no longer have a living room.. I have a fish room with a TV.


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## Playing God (Dec 13, 2012)

We'll add that to the list--
Signs that you might have MTS:

You no longer have a fish tank in your living room, now you have a TV in your fish room.



Fishfur said:


> What's really disturbing is how many tanks one can actually fit into a very small space, if one tries. I no longer have a living room.. I have a fish room with a TV.


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## Exquizique (Nov 19, 2012)

Fishfur said:


> What's really disturbing is how many tanks one can actually fit into a very small space, if one tries. I no longer have a living room.. I have a fish room with a TV.


There's always still the kitchen (fish room with a stove?), bathrooms (fish room with a toilet?), bedroom (fish room with a bed?) ...


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

If only funds were unlimited.....

fish house with a little bit of room for people to live


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## Playing God (Dec 13, 2012)

pyrrolin said:


> If only funds were unlimited.....
> 
> fish house with a little bit of room for people to live


LOL, I suppose we're all a bunch of posers here -- keeping fish indoors and all.

The REAL fish fanatics find a way to move down south and get their fix swimming over the reefs every morning....if only.


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