# New to sw - Nano tank



## someguy (Sep 7, 2009)

Hey salties!

This is my first post in the marine section but I've been lurking here consistently for over a month along with some other sw sites and I am tempted to try a saltwater tank. In the past I didn't because of costs/time/difficulty compared to freshwater but ever since reading up it seems not so bad, so long as you take it slow.

I know a nano tank is a bad choice for a first sw setup after lots of reading, but I plan on going really slowly. I would like to try a 10g (standard) with some base rock, base sand and some seeding live rock to start (I figure 1/3 live rock to base) and let that sit for a few months and see what develops.

I have a lot of the gear that I'l need, so far - tank, heater, hob filter/refugium, powerhead, sw test kits, thermometer, ph/tds meter, as well as some misc items like turkey baster, toothbrush, mag float, tongs etc.

The 2 major things I am looking to get is lighting and a refractometer. For lighting I was considering this:
http://www.aquatraders.com/20-inch-4x18W-T5-Aquarium-Light-Fixture-p/52302.htm - $85 with shipping (thanks to TankCla for the link)
and refractometer:
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/300879512045...X:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649#ht_2168wt_1163 - about $30 total

I plan on using an aquaclear (70 I think)as a refugium with some chaeto, just wondering what lights are good for hob filters and what you guys use on yours.
I have an aquaclear 10 powerhead and 2 maxi jets (400 and 600) would these work ok? I can always use them to mix sw and pick up a hydor.
I know with base rock the cycling process is longer, but I have the time and it seems many who go this route are happy with it. Just wondering since I am using regular sand do I need live sand as well as live rock to seed?
I plan on buying my ro-di water for top offs and salt water premixed at BA's, is there anywhere significantly cheaper or more ideal? Will I need any additives with doing 10% weekly water changes?
Good stores around scarborough/markham? I know of SUM and NAFB but I have yet to go and see them, dont want to get too tempted too early (lol)
I have ph, amonia, nitrite, nitrate test kits but will I need Calcium, Magnesium, iodine, alkalinity and/or Phosphate from the start without corals? 
I was thinking of making a DIY background from Styrofoam but I dont see many (if any) on marine tanks, good idea? bad? neutral?

Corals and livestock are an afterthought for now, perhaps when things smooth out zoas, palys, maybe then some mushrooms and leathers. 0 Fish most likely. Inverts: snails, maybe some shrimp like peppermint,cleaner,sexy shrimp, and or dwarf hermits (I know they kill snails and generally move and topple things down, but the zebra ones look so cool!) again after things have settled down for a while.

Thoughts on cured vs non-cured live rock? It seems mostly personal preference just wondering if ones more ideal for my situation, the added creatures from non-cured would be nice and in a 10g I'm sure weeding out the baddies is easier, but I still don't want a slug crashing my entire tank because I chose wrong initially, or missed something obvious.

Opinions? Questions? Comments? DON'T BE SHY! the more opinions I get from the more people the better off so please chime in. I'm still early in planning, a month or more off from starting but whatever ideas I get now I can research and do things right the 1st time. My birthday is in 2 weeks so I can get some of the missing equipment then as well.

Sorry for the wall of text  thanks if you read it all!


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## CRJ (Sep 7, 2012)

from what your asking i think you need to read up some more. get on live aquaria and see what you want, it tells you what you need. 

in my opinion, a hang on back tank is a BAD setup for saltwater. if you want, im selling a Biocube 14 you can build off of. 

HOB setups are a royal pain in the arse.


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## someguy (Sep 7, 2009)

Thanks for the reply

Ya I defo need to read a lot more. Ive been on live aquaria and was looking over the cleaner crew list, what did you start off with on your biocube? anything you would do different if you started over? Good to know about HOBs but the tank is going on a desk so I wont have room for a proper sump, which limits my options. Anything else you can think of that I missed/overlooked?

Also georgetown is a bit of a ways, tempting as it is


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

http://www.gtaaquaria.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7482

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## TankCla (Dec 31, 2010)

someguy said:


> I know a nano tank is a bad choice for a first sw setup


It is a good choice (money-wise and time-wise) if you take really good care of it.



someguy said:


> The 2 major things I am looking to get is lighting and a refractometer. For lighting I was considering this:
> http://www.aquatraders.com/20-inch-4x18W-T5-Aquarium-Light-Fixture-p/52302.htm - $85 with shipping (thanks to TankCla for the link)
> and refractometer:
> http://www.ebay.ca/itm/300879512045...X:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649#ht_2168wt_1163 - about $30 total


I have the exact same thing and works perfect.



someguy said:


> I plan on using an aquaclear (70 I think)as a refugium with some chaeto.


I know everybody doesn't agree with me (I had this discussion many times now), but I recommend a skimmer for your nano. Especially if you want to keep more corals.
I use Rio Nano Skimmer for over a year (40$ at BA) with good results.



someguy said:


> I know with base rock the cycling process is longer, but I have the time and it seems many who go this route are happy with it. Just wondering since I am using regular sand do I need live sand as well as live rock to seed?


I am sure you can find here a cup of sand to seed you tank, if not I used this Ocean Direct Caribbean Live Sand. I only have 5lb in my 10gal (more volume for water)



someguy said:


> I was thinking of making a DIY background from Styrofoam but I dont see many (if any) on marine tanks, good idea? bad? neutral?


Not a good idea. 
1. You want to minimize the areas with low flow and with high risk of NO2/NO3 and phosphates (like the back of your background).
2. You don't have a lot of space in 10 gal for background and live rock



someguy said:


> Corals and livestock are an afterthought for now, perhaps when things smooth out zoas, palys, maybe then some mushrooms and leathers. 0 Fish most likely. Inverts: snails, maybe some shrimp like peppermint,cleaner,sexy shrimp, and or dwarf hermits (I know they kill snails and generally move and topple things down, but the zebra ones look so cool!) again after things have settled down for a while.


You can put 1-2 fish there, small fish. Also consider green star polyps, kenya tree and xenia for the beginning.



someguy said:


> Thoughts on cured vs non-cured live rock? It seems mostly personal preference just wondering if ones more ideal for my situation, the added creatures from non-cured would be nice and in a 10g I'm sure weeding out the baddies is easier, but I still don't want a slug crashing my entire tank because I chose wrong initially, or missed something obvious.


Risky. Go with cured and you can always add critters.

Good luck with your new project.


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## someguy (Sep 7, 2009)

sig said:


> http://www.gtaaquaria.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7482


Thats the first thing I read up on. There seems to be a sticky on most reef/marine forums about setting up nano tanks which is useful, I like this one which shows how to set up the refugium from an aquaclear even. http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/180570-el-fabs-simple-guide-to-pico-tanks/

Of course any other links you can provide would be a great help also, thanks.



TankCla said:


> It is a good choice (money-wise and time-wise) if you take really good care of it.


I hope so, Hopefully my costs dont run over too far and I can get a good idea if I want to expand in the future.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by someguy
> The 2 major things I am looking to get is lighting and a refractometer. For lighting I was considering this:
> http://www.aquatraders.com/20-inch-4...re-p/52302.htm - $85 with shipping (thanks to TankCla for the link)
> ...


Ya I remember when we met you mentioned the lights and ive had it bookmarked, glad the refractometer is good I wasnt sure if it was cheap quality.



> I know everybody doesn't agree with me (I had this discussion many times now), but I recommend a skimmer for your nano. Especially if you want to keep more corals.
> I use Rio Nano Skimmer for over a year (40$ at BA) with good results.


That was going to be my next question, I know where you are coming from and with a smaller tank it makes sense to have more insurance. Decent price il check it out. I know you also have a fluval canister too, how do you find it?



> I am sure you can find here a cup of sand to seed you tank, if not I used this Ocean Direct Caribbean Live Sand. I only have 5lb in my 10gal (more volume for water)


Cool, Ive seen those live sand packages but wasnt sure how good they would be sitting around in a store. I havnt decided on a sand yet so i'l check that out as well.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by someguy
> I was thinking of making a DIY background from Styrofoam but I dont see many (if any) on marine tanks, good idea? bad? neutral?
> Not a good idea.
> ...


Gotcha, il cover the back with black or blue paint then.



> You can put 1-2 fish there, small fish. Also consider green star polyps, kenya tree and xenia for the beginning.


I know some people keep fish in as little as 5 or even 3g pico tanks but I figure starting off I want my params perfect before I start messing around with fish, and im more interested in a vibrant colourful mini reef/rock setup for now. I do like those clowns you have though!



> Risky. Go with cured and you can always add critters.
> 
> Good luck with your new project.


I suppose you are right, if it means less headaches down the road. Where did you get your original live rock from? thanks for the kind words, your tank was some of the inspiration for me wanting a nano so if you can think of anything to add please do!

I'm thinking of picking up a general saltwater book (they still sell those "book" things!? crazy I know!) any particular sugestions or recommended reading?

Again thanks, the more details the better Ive got lots of time to do my homework so wall of text is fine.


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## altcharacter (Jan 10, 2011)

Just head to my place in the next couple days and I can answer most of your questions. I'm in scarborough also at warden and st. claire.

PM me for info dude!


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## someguy (Sep 7, 2009)

Gotta support those fellow scarboorough aquaria members huh  thanks I sent you a pm


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## CRJ (Sep 7, 2012)

thats not bad i can do scarberia in 30 minutes lol. 

if you want the tank im sure we can find time. an all in one tank is your best bet.


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## aln (Jan 26, 2010)

I have the "The marine reef aquarium" book that i got from chapters by philip hunt. i really liked the read and it was easy to understand. 

i was go with cured live rocks also. Cause there are alot more hitchhikers that your not going the want vs the good. Like tankCla said you could add them after anyways. 

i would say go slow with livestock, in a 10g you could probably keep a small clown and 1 more fish to stay safe. Im not sure if i can post other forums links in thread so i pm'ed it to you. It shows what fish can be kept in different size tanks when we start off. 

and just keep reading! magazines, books, journals, etc you'll learn lots everyday.


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## sooley19 (Jan 7, 2009)

I have the bio cube 14 gallon as well and I love my tank.. The all in one is your best bet and if you can get it at a decent price I would jump all over that.. It will make everything so much easier in the long run.. Mine came with the skimmer as well and you can actually keep it out of the viewing area which is good as well so more room for everything else you wanna put in.. The lights are decent too and they aren't too expensive.. For both bulbs it's like $50 and Big Al's.. That is where I bought everything for my tank.. I have corals and fish in mine and recently just added a rose bubble tip anemone and my clown fish are loving it.. I also have a mother colony of Kenya trees and they are branching off and fragging all over my tank with is starting to look nice with all the different corals and fish..


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## fesso clown (Nov 15, 2011)

I think an all in one system is your best bet as well for anything under 20 Gallons. They have the cleanest look because you can hide your equipment.

If you don't like the rounded look of the Biocubes check out the CAD lights all in ones, they are great!

I have done the AC 110 as a refugium mod. It worked great for growing pods, housing extra live rock and growing a small amount of cheato. I don't believe it helped at all with nutrient export though, just not enough cheato. I also hid my heater in it.

Here is the CAD lights link. Their products are carried at quite a few GTA stores and they have a thread somewhere on here. Slick little units! 
http://www.cadlights.com/


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## someguy (Sep 7, 2009)

Cool, thanks for the info guys. The cubes are nice although I do prefer the longer tanks, plus the dimensions are kinda off for my desk. From the reviews everyone seems happy with them though. I'l have a couple weeks to mull it over anyways.

How often do you have to replace the parts/bulbs on the cubes? and how is maintenance compared to a regular setup? if something breaks how available are single parts to get for them compared to just buying a new filter/heater etc. from BAs?

That anemone is nice I didn't know PC fixtures were so good. I've always been fascinated by the clown anemone relationship thanks for the pics.


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## fesso clown (Nov 15, 2011)

I can't comment on the biocubes but I have gone the hang on back nano route and would never do it again. All the equipment everywhere looked terrible.

Check this out, here is a long although slightly bigger (16G) it is a real nice AIO. (all in one) 
http://gtaaquaria.com/forum/showthread.php?t=38998&highlight=coral+reef+shop


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## warfanax (Mar 5, 2012)

I also started with 10g but quickly realized that bigger the better. Just get a bigger tank, its so much easier to maintain. Anything that goes chemically wrong will be more diluted in bigger volumes. 

I wish I started with a bigger tank. Now have 40g because I couldn't convince gf for a bigger one. Don't make the same mistake


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## someguy (Sep 7, 2009)

I would still like to have a 10g I appreciate the feedback though. I have room for a sump now, there's a space 21"L 16"W 29"H directly under the tank for one. Since I hear drilling is a pain I was thinking of getting something like this overflow box Eshopps PF-Nano Overflow Box
Anyone used something like this? also for the sump itself I was thinking of a 10-15g tank, not sure about the baffles though, but I have an idea what it should look like.


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## fesso clown (Nov 15, 2011)

Drilling is actually quite easy. Overflow box is fine but you really need an aqualifter pump to make sure you don't get a siphon break so you're really spending close to $100 for an overflow box solution. Bring the tank to Big Al's and they will drill a hole for you for like $50 if you're scared to do it yourself.

Also check out some of the treads here on Pico set-up...
http://www.nano-reef.com/forum/37-pico-reefs/


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## george (Apr 11, 2009)

For drilling....check with Altcharacter. Im sure he can help you if he has the time.


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## someguy (Sep 7, 2009)

Ok, I just heard people say that 10g sucks to drill because of the glass thickness so I figured dont bother. but if its cheaper i'l go that route. I had no idea BA did drilling either.


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## warfanax (Mar 5, 2012)

fesso clown said:


> Drilling is actually quite easy. Overflow box is fine butyoyou need an aqualifter pump to make sure you don't get a siphon break so you're really spending close to $100 for an overflow box solution. Bring the tank to Big Al's and they will drill a hole for you for like $50 if you're scared to do it yourself.
> 
> Also check out some of the treads here on Pico set-up...
> http://www.nano-reef.com/forum/37-pico-reefs/


oh my God. you can't be serious. for a $20 tank you are suggesting him to pay those thieves $50 per hole?

drilling glass is very easy. don't be scared. there are plenty youtube videos that show how to do it. I have never had any experience and I drilled 5 holes to my 40g. not a big deal.

diamond coated hole saws are $5 on eBay with free shipping. you can borrow a drill if you don't have.


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## altcharacter (Jan 10, 2011)

There is a huge difference between a 40g and a 10g. The thickness of the glass makes it easier on a 40g


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## fesso clown (Nov 15, 2011)

warfanax said:


> oh my God. you can't be serious. for a $20 tank you are suggesting him to pay those thieves $50 per hole?
> 
> drilling glass is very easy. don't be scared. there are plenty youtube videos that show how to do it. I have never had any experience and I drilled 5 holes to my 40g. not a big deal.
> 
> diamond coated hole saws are $5 on eBay with free shipping. you can borrow a drill if you don't have.


No, the first thing I said was that drilling is easy, then I was suggesting not buying a 70 +tax overflow box and a 20 + tax aqualifter pump. It's gonna cost you around $50 a hole no matter what LFS you go to and if the OP is freaked out buy drilling it's still cheaper at a LFS then the overflow set-up.

I still suggest I nice AIO for a nano set-up.


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

someguy said:


> Ok, I just heard people say that 10g sucks to drill because of the glass thickness so I figured dont bother. *but if its cheaper* i'l go that route. I had no idea BA did drilling either.




in a few weeks you will decide to go bigger - 20 or 40g and all money you spent on 10G will be wasted

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## darthvictor (Aug 16, 2011)

sig said:


> in a few weeks you will decide to go bigger - 20 or 40g and all money you spent on 10G will be wasted


It can become a sump 

Deciding to go for a nano tank you need to have the right mind set, and choose your coral wisely; fight your temptation. As long as you willing to stay focus you are fine


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## thmh (Mar 17, 2011)

It's hard to stay focus of when there are so many awesome build threads up on this forum to tempt you! 

-Tony


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## darthvictor (Aug 16, 2011)

I think it is all the awesome frags sale threads which do most of the damage XD


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## someguy (Sep 7, 2009)

sig said:


> in a few weeks you will decide to go bigger - 20 or 40g and all money you spent on 10G will be wasted


It could still be a frag tank 

It's mostly something to look at since its on my desk. I do like some of the AIO tanks but my space up top is limited, basically this is what im working with










The bottom has lots of room for a sump once I move a few things










I do have a 75g tank that came with a predrilled hole and plumbing + a pvc overflow but it currently has cichlids in it =) hope I didnt break any sacred code for posting fw pics in the marine section.


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

at the moment your 10G will run, you will start to think how to switch 75 to the SW.
many of us were in this story and that's why I suggest to do it right from the first time and save money.

JMO

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## someguy (Sep 7, 2009)

sig said:


> at the moment your 10G will run, you will start to think how to switch 75 to the SW.


Haha that fast huh? Its not like I don't want to but the costs are that much bigger to start it also, 2x or more for the lights 7x for the rock not to mention the livestock to fill that size. 
Plus if I fail that's a bunch more gone, not that I would with you guys around though


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