# Bad "new" metal stand... help!!! (Nice pictures)



## MichaelAngelo

Hey Guys,

I got a new metal stand from Big Al's Scarborough yesterday. Aside from being "new" (scratched and missing a foot) it bend in the middle. The bend is even apparent when the tank isn't on the stand (using a long fluorescent tube).

I compared my metal stand for a 135G to somebody's metal stands for their 220G and 180G. Sitting with an empty tank, my stand bows alone the entire length. His 220 stand bows less than mine, and the tank is full of water. The 180G stand only bows in the middle.

The bow will only increase if I fill the tank with water.

Here are the pictures...

My tank is empty:









My tank is level:



















Along the front:










































Sides:

















Back:









Reactions???

What do I do???


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## KnaveTO

I would take it back and bring pictures with you to prove your point


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## BillD

Good luck finding a metal stand that isn't like that. Steel is very rarely straight. The stand will not bow more when the tank is filled. I have some metal stands I made that exhibit the same characteristics despite my care in selecting material and building them. On two of the stands I have 4 rimless tanks, so it is more important to have a straight bottom. I put 3/4" white styro underneath and that took care of the problem.


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## KnaveTO

I have a metal stand that an empty 65 gallon and a 40 gallon are sitting on... the steel bars are straight and there are no gaps like in MichaelAngelo's pictures


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## Mr Fishies

You can take it back and complain, but I'm not sure you won't find that type of deviation to be the case with most aquariums on metal stands once you get into the 4ft+ range.

Before you freak out, a few things to consider:

1. Are you certain the trim on your aquarium is perfectly flat and not a bit high at the ends where there is more adhesive injected to hold across the sides? You need a long straightedge to really confirm the bow is in your stand or aquarium trim.

2. This is why many people put some styro or dense foam rubber under tanks. Perfect flatness at this size requires a lot more cost in terms of engineering a rigid, non-flexing structure perfectly flat over a 6 ft length that will support ~1500 pounds. You'd need _*a lot more*_ than 12 pieces of square tube in a much more complex and costly structure.

3. Without your aquarium on it, I'd bet you could press down on the middle of stand and deflect it quite easily maybe not with one finger, but with the pressure of one hand, or you could try lifting up on what's there to see how easily it moves. The middle of any 4 legged steel stand is not really offering much support anyways...there aren't even legs in the middle to support the bar and keep it from flexing. As long as the middle is not supported the ends will always do the work, rimmed aquariums have this in mind from the get go. If the middle were supported, the stand would absolutely have to be 100% rigid in order to keep people from shimming the stand and putting a pivot hump in the middle - that would be much worse for your aquarium than the current situation.


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## MichaelAngelo

Mr Fishies said:


> You need a long straightedge to really confirm the bow is in your stand or aquarium trim.


I ran a long fluorescent tube along the stand, and confirmed it was the stand that was sagging. I spun the tube around to ensure that the tube itself was straight, and it was.


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## Mr Fishies

MichaelAngelo said:


> I ran a long fluorescent tube along the stand, and confirmed it was the stand that was sagging. I spun the tube around to ensure that the tube itself was straight, and it was.


Good to see you were thorough. A lot of people trust the first thing they check with to be perfect without double checking (I've been tricked by bent straightedges more than once) . Good call on the tube as a straightedge. I'd done it in the past, but forgotten about that.

I still stand by points #2 & 3.


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## UnderTheSea

If it is not out a lot, use the pink foam.

If you are really concerned, try taking it back and take a nice long level to go the length of the stand to prove your point.


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## wtac

IME, it's quite common and the ~1/8" of deviation is not a real issue as long as you use styro underneath. For that gap, use the 1" white styro as it will even out the pressure along the length better than the pink as it compresses more.

To add to it, I have a client that has a similar situation with 1/4" gap in the middle and about 150lbs of rock and gravel...just aquarium on stand. Been like that for 10 years and no issues though my skin crawls everytime I go there for the service...LOL!


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## Mr Fishies

We look at the sides of aquariums as containing the pressure pushing out from the water, but structurally they also act as really tall narrow beams spreading the weight pressing down on the bottom of the tank that is attached to the sides between the two ends so that all the weight is transferred from the ends of your aquarium down through the legs of the stand.

While you may be able to bend the pipe your stand is made of, try bend the glass edge on.

I wish I was still at my old job, I used to work with stress engineers who could easily illustrate how this sort of thing works, along with the finite element analysis, formulas and diagrams to prove it.


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## Riceburner

I always wondered about the white styro...is it really supporting in the middle or cause it fills the gap we think it's supporting. I suppose it is a bit, but not equal to the same amount as the ends?


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## MichaelAngelo

Riceburner said:


> I always wondered about the white styro...is it really supporting in the middle or cause it fills the gap we think it's supporting. I suppose it is a bit, but not equal to the same amount as the ends?


After reading and phoning around I don't think the Styrofoam is worth the visual eyesore.


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## gucci17

MichaelAngelo said:


> After reading and phoning around I don't think the Styrofoam is worth the visual eyesore.


Why not cover it up with electrical tape or something? Or use black weathering strips underneath. You won't even notice it.

You can most likely get away with not using any styro underneath but for the piece of mind I'd say it's definitely worth it.


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## Symphy68

*Cheap stands*

Well what can I say here is a good example of cheap!

Dear fellow aquarist

- first of all those metal stands are wrongly designed.
- second you are resting the tank only by the perimeter area not the whole base
- third regardless if you are sitting a glass or acrylic aquarium on a hard base you need to cushion to absorb the difference due to heat and expansion plus the deformation when applying death weight

Stands like the one exposed here are bad examples or better put good examples of a bad product.

If you look well in to the pics the legs are off the base ( are you kidding?)
that means that you are trusting all the weight in to the welding and not the stand so??? That also contributes to the stand not being level

Let me shoot you some pics of a well designed metal stand


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## Riceburner

now that's a stand I'd trust a big tank on. Even the stand under my 30 I'm weary of.


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## bigfishy

What dimension is your steel stand? 72" x 18"???? (L x W)


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## Hitch

Symphy68 said:


> Well what can I say here is a good example of cheap!
> 
> Dear fellow aquarist
> 
> - first of all those metal stands are wrongly designed.
> - second you are resting the tank only by the perimeter area not the whole base
> - third regardless if you are sitting a glass or acrylic aquarium on a hard base you need to cushion to absorb the difference due to heat and expansion plus the deformation when applying death weight
> 
> Stands like the one exposed here are bad examples or better put good examples of a bad product.
> 
> If you look well in to the pics the legs are off the base ( are you kidding?)
> that means that you are trusting all the weight in to the welding and not the stand so??? That also contributes to the stand not being level
> 
> Let me shoot you some pics of a well designed metal stand


where would you do about getting good stands like that?


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## bigfishy

Hitch said:


> where would you do about getting good stands like that?


that is a custom made stand


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## characinfan

*Cushioning the tank with weatherstripping foam*

Instead of looking far and wide for white styrofoam, this time I used dense foam weatherstripping strips from Canadian Tire. It's cheap, it's black (blends perfectly with the tank and stand) and it sticks by itself to the bottom of the tank or the top of the stand. It works really well.

C.


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## bigfishy

characinfan said:


> Instead of looking far and wide for white styrofoam, this time I used dense foam weatherstripping strips from Canadian Tire. It's cheap, it's black (blends perfectly with the tank and stand) and it sticks by itself to the bottom of the tank or the top of the stand. It works really well.
> 
> C.


White Styrofoam is not hard to find at all, Home Depot sells them at 8ft x 18" x 1" for like $8

^^


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## Hitch

ya, I was hoping he got it from a custom building place...and hence, location of such place.


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## Jackson

Hitch said:


> ya, I was hoping he got it from a custom building place...and hence, location of such place.


LOL it top secret.

I would also like to know where to go get a stand like that


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## Hitch

Jackson said:


> LOL it top secret.
> 
> I would also like to know where to go get a stand like that


lol...the secret will eventually exposed XD, i can wait. Since i dont think i would need a stand that hold anything more than a 30 gal any time soon.

my aunt randomly said that she wants to get an aro in the future.....so I need to start reading on them...and would need a large stand in the future :/


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## MichaelAngelo

Hitch said:


> lol...the secret will eventually exposed XD, i can wait. Since i dont think i would need a stand that hold anything more than a 30 gal any time soon.
> 
> my aunt randomly said that she wants to get an aro in the future.....so I need to start reading on them...and would need a large stand in the future :/


Aros are awesome =) they eat anything too lol.

If your floor is bumpy then skip wood stands and go straight to metal. =) It's amazing how tricky a 6 foot wooden cabinet can be to level and support properly.

Michael


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## Hitch

ya, I think ill go with the metal stands...somehow I like the aesthetic more.


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## bigfishy

Hitch said:


> lol...the secret will eventually exposed XD, i can wait. Since i dont think i would need a stand that hold anything more than a 30 gal any time soon.
> 
> my aunt randomly said that she wants to get an aro in the future.....so I need to start reading on them...and would need a large stand in the future :/


180G Minimum tank size 72 x 24 x 24

a large sump or two (2217)

and weight down glass top, so they don't jump out



$1000+ for the setup, if you want it to be brand new ^^



MichaelAngelo said:


> Aros are awesome =) they eat anything too lol.
> 
> If your floor is bumpy then skip wood stands and go straight to metal. =) It's amazing how tricky a 6 foot wooden cabinet can be to level and support properly.
> 
> Michael


What happen to the metal stand? what happen to the 5ft wood stand???

any update?


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## MichaelAngelo

bigfishy said:


> 180G Minimum tank size 72 x 24 x 24
> 
> a large sump or two (2217)
> 
> and weight down glass top, so they don't jump out
> 
> 
> 
> $1000+ for the setup, if you want it to be brand new ^^
> 
> What happen to the metal stand? what happen to the 5ft wood stand???
> 
> any update?


Since I decided to get a 6 ft tank, I'm using the 5 ft stand right now. =P

But there's no doubt I'll find a use for it in the future.

Update: Big Al's is going to inspect a new metal stand for me, so I'll go switch it. this week when they're done.


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## Symphy68

*Update on the stand*

Hello everyone,

There is no secrets.

That stand was made to hold a 220 gal aquarium.

It was made in Brampton by Acuaprof

The price was $ 450.00 ad the beams are 2.5" thick.

These guys are involved in big projects but still they can make something for you if you ask.

All the info is in their web page


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## gucci17

MichaelAngelo said:


> Since I decided to get a 6 ft tank, I'm using the 5 ft stand right now. =P
> 
> But there's no doubt I'll find a use for it in the future.
> 
> Update: Big Al's is going to inspect a new metal stand for me, so I'll go switch it. this week when they're done.


I'm confused...so do you have a 6ft tank now on a 5ft stand?


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## MichaelAngelo

gucci17 said:


> I'm confused...so do you have a 6ft tank now on a 5ft stand?


no no, I have a 5 foot stand without a current use. I have a 6 ft tank sitting on empty a 6ft wooden stand that I can't level. Waiting for my new metal stand from BA to arrive.


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## gucci17

MichaelAngelo said:


> no no, I have a 5 foot stand without a current use. I have a 6 ft tank sitting on empty a 6ft wooden stand that I can't level. Waiting for my new metal stand from BA to arrive.


Ahhhh ok...what type of 6ft wooden stand and what dimensions?


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## MichaelAngelo

gucci17 said:


> Ahhhh ok...what type of 6ft wooden stand and what dimensions?


It's a really nice one. It's a wood cabinet stand, with 4 doors. It's black marbled wood (white marbling) in perfect condition.

It's 6' by 18'' (for a 135G tank I believe). You want?

Michael


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## bigfishy

MichaelAngelo said:


> It's a really nice one. It's a wood cabinet stand, with 4 doors. It's black marbled wood (white marbling) in perfect condition.
> 
> It's 6' by 18'' (for a 135G tank I believe). You want?
> 
> Michael


Can I come and have a look???

^^


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## gucci17

bigfishy said:


> Can I come and have a look???
> 
> ^^


lol you're right on it!


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## Jackson

Symphy68 said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> There is no secrets.
> 
> That stand was made to hold a 220 gal aquarium.
> 
> It was made in Brampton by Acuaprof
> 
> The price was $ 450.00 ad the beams are 2.5" thick.
> 
> These guys are involved in big projects but still they can make something for you if you ask.
> 
> All the info is in their web page


There is no reason for the stand to cost that much.

I cant imagine paying that much for a metal stand unless it was 10'+


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## Tearran

MichaelAngelo,

I'm suprised no one said this or I didnt catch it, but that large of a tank, on kind of stand (or any for that matter) on tile is a a bad idea, the wieght of your tank (over 1000 lbs) is being driven down into 4 tiles and this will most likely cause them to eventually crack, especially when you get expansion/contraction from changes in temperature! - unless its not real tile, cant tell from the picture.


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## Symphy68

Jackson said:


> There is no reason for the stand to cost that much.
> 
> I cant imagine paying that much for a metal stand unless it was 10'+


It is 10+ I can assure you...

far away from the crap I have seen everywhere else... and of course properly designed....

which if you don't mind has a merit.

but any how the point is that most stands that are available to novice aquarist do the job even though they are not made right....

and aquarist should be informed about it, it's not uncommon to see tanks leaning on metal or wood with no cushion at all...just "accidents" waiting to happen...


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## sacvadspat

uhm,Thanks so much 4 sharing with us,bros


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## gucci17

Symphy68 said:


> It is 10+ I can assure you...
> 
> far away from the crap I have seen everywhere else... and of course properly designed....
> 
> which if you don't mind has a merit.
> 
> but any how the point is that most stands that are available to novice aquarist do the job even though they are not made right....
> 
> and aquarist should be informed about it, it's not uncommon to see tanks leaning on metal or wood with no cushion at all...just "accidents" waiting to happen...


I think Jackson was refering to the fact that it would need to be 10 plus feet for it to be worth that price. I don't believe he meant a grade of 10+. Or I could be wrong?


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