# Dead Neon Tetras and sick Siamese Algae Eater



## Bubbly McNemo (Apr 20, 2008)

I have an 8G BioCube containing some live plants, snails, 1 cherry shrimp, 1 Siamese Algae Eater, and 3 Neon Tetras.

I changed water of the tank last weekend and 2 days after that, I was shocked to find all my Neon Tetras dead with their stomach slit open. 

Our prime suspect was of course, the Siamese Algae Eater, given his violent history of attacking a fellow Siamese Algae Eater and a snail. However, we noticed that his tail and dorsal fin was deteriorated with a white film on the trailing edge. He also seemed inactive and was hiding behind the plants.

We went to Big Al's for a free water testing and the guy told us nothing seemed wrong with the water, including chlorine and ammonia level. We then visited another aquarium and the guy basically told us it was the chlorine that killed our fish. He said even though we let the water sit out for more than 2-3 days, it wasn't enough. Apparently it had something to do with government's new regulation of increasing chlorine in water. Our Siamese Algae Eater survived because he's got scales and the Tetras don't. So we ended up buying a bottle of water conditioner and was told to add 20 ml into the water... and that we now have to use water conditioner every time we perform water change.

Anyway, I just want to hear some opinions from the fish experts here. What else could possibly cause all the Tetras to die? I've been changing water the exact same way for the past few months and I just don't know what went wrong this time.


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## Tabatha (Dec 29, 2007)

I'm sorry to hear about your tetras, I also have a BC8 (now saltwater) and in my opinion, it's way too small for the fish you're keeping. I would personally recommend conditioning tap water for each water change without exception.

Consider nano fish for that tank such as pygmy corydoras, sparkling gouramis, white cloud mountain minnows, check out this link for other fish: http://www.franksaquarium.com/nanofish.htm

Best of luck,

Tabatha


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## Ciddian (Mar 15, 2006)

Hi and welcome 

I was curious at how much water you had changed out and what temperature was the replaced water?


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## Bubbly McNemo (Apr 20, 2008)

I changed about 1/4 of the tank but I don't know the temperature of the water. The water has bee sitting out for days so I assumed it was room temperature...


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## Calmer (Mar 9, 2008)

> We went to Big Al's for a free water testing and the guy told us nothing seemed wrong with the water, including chlorine and ammonia level. We then visited another aquarium and the guy basically told us it was the chlorine that killed our fish. He said even though we let the water sit out for more than 2-3 days, it wasn't enough. Apparently it had something to do with government's new regulation of increasing chlorine in water.


What the second aquarium place guy was probably referring to was chloramine. 
http://stason.org/TULARC/animals/aquaria/beginning-fishkeeping/24-Chloramine.html
Big Als would have picked up on that with the testing especially if the water was fresh from the tap. Not all regions of the GTA use chloramine but just only chlorine. Just to be safe use a dechlorinator that says it does chlorine and chloramine.



> Our Siamese Algae Eater survived because he's got scales and the Tetras don't.


Look closer  http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/detailed_image.cfm?pCatId=1097 The scales are very small._ Fish_ such as loaches, pufferfish, and catfish are _scaleless_.

Tabatha makes a good point that 8 gal. might be too small.
Siamese Algae Eaters grow to 4-5 inches in length.


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Neon tetras are particularly susceptible to disease, and it seems like the SAE had a fungus, and that had deteriorated it's fins. That is probably what killed your fish, IMO. when did you notice that they were dead? 

Fin damage is usually not a symptom of chlorine poisoning, so that is why I say this. It is more likely from disease than chlorine poisoning.

IMO, there are a few issues with your tank. With a nano tank, you have to do water changes at least once a week. You just have to, as waster accumulation is fast, and with a SAE, you're going to get waste. 
Also, the SAE will outgrow your BC8. It's iffy in a BC29, so the 8 is definitely going to be too small pretty soon.
Tetras also need to be in schools of at least 5 to 6 fish. Most fish that school or form loose associations need at least 5 or 6 members of their school to feel at peace and have normal interactions. 

Has anything new gone into the tank lately?


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## Bubbly McNemo (Apr 20, 2008)

Right now I am doing water change every other week, but I will consider doing it every week from now on. I got my SAE from a friend that he has been in the same size (about 1 inch) for over a year. Maybe I was mistaken and he isn't a SAE after all....

I haven't put in any new fish just yet. The guy from aquarium store told me to put in the water conditioner and wait for a few days before I start adding in new fish. My SAE (or whatever he is) seems to be regrowing his tail and fins, and he is actively swimming around now.


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Good to hear that he's doing better!

If it's an SAE, it's likely to have grown over an inch in a year.

Sometimes fish just die, and we have no idea why. Sometimes there's a good reason. If you age your water and are hesitant on treating it with anything (I myself don't like adding chemicals, so I don't treat, I use filtered water), instead of just letting it sit, just get an airstone and bubble the water (or a powerhead and stir it), and that should help any lingering chlorine gas off.


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## Cory (May 2, 2008)

Neon Tetras are like canaries in a mine shaft in that they are usually the first to go if something is wrong with the tank. Your fish could have died from chlorine poisoning but it is really difficult to say because youve got a lot of confusing indicators there. Changing water and not dechlorinating isnt a good thing, but fin rot is a seperate issue which to the best of my knowledge doesn't result from chlorine poisoning. It could also be that something contaminated the water you left out to put back into the tank and that is what got the fish. 

Best bet would be to remove the SAE because even if that is not what he is, an 8g cube isnt the best home for any fish in that family. I'd stock the tank with some microfish or just a variety of shrimp and do weekly water changes using the dechlorinator youve purchased. If you want some small schooling fish celestial pearl danios make a great choice and they stay really small. Endler's livebearers are good too if you only purchase males as females will rapidly overpopulate your tank. 

Laslty, never take what the fish store people say at face value. A lot of the time they are trying to sell you something or just plain don't know what they're talking about. There are a lot of good, knowledgeable ones out there, but it can take a while to find them. 

Best of luck with your tank and sorry to hear about your losses.


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## Gargoyle (Aug 21, 2008)

The damage to the dead neons was probably just scavenging going on. Chances are, they died, and the ammonia in the tank spiked causing the fin damage, or the fin damage was the remaining symptom of what killed them. More water changes, and ideally, a larger tank...


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## js97 (Jun 11, 2008)

SAE's not aggressive. you might have a flying fox (easily confused with SAE)


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## redclove (Feb 26, 2008)

agreed, consider finding a larger tank ! They are extremely inexpensive if you keep your eye on the buy&sell section here or craigslist..

I always add the conditioner to the water changes..


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## conix67 (Jul 27, 2008)

redclove said:


> agreed, consider finding a larger tank ! They are extremely inexpensive if you keep your eye on the buy&sell section here or craigslist..
> 
> I always add the conditioner to the water changes..


*extermely inexpensive* would be an understatement 

Tanks alone are usually not too expensive, but most other essential accessories are usually more expensive thank the tank (lid, light, stand) 

I was looking for a hood with a light for 10Gal tank at big als the other day, it was $29.99.

On the other hand, a tank + lid/w light combo for 10Gal tank was $26


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## redclove (Feb 26, 2008)

thats why I suggest looking second hand, you can get everything you need for much less in one-stop.


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## Shattered (Feb 13, 2008)

I agree with Redclove, second hand is usually the cheaper way to go. 

I'm sorry to hear about your losses.


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## conix67 (Jul 27, 2008)

Shattered said:


> I agree with Redclove, second hand is usually the cheaper way to go.
> 
> I'm sorry to hear about your losses.


I do fully agree the second hand is usually cheaper way to go, but not *extremely inexpensive*. I've bought many of my aquarium stuff second hand from kijiji or pricenetwork. My experience so far has been hit and miss type. One large purchase I made included eheim 2215 ($90) and 20gal tank ($20), the filter was infested with snails inside, impeller shaft missing one bushing (very noisy), media was filthy and spent good 2 hours to clean everything, spent $45 for new impeller and shaft, which came out to be more than the cost of brand new unit. The 20gal tank was full of fine scratches, and as soon as I hit the silicone seal during cleaning, it came off cleanly, so purchased aquarium safe silicone and sealed it. Overall spent more than $30 for a scratchy ugly tank while I could have spent less than that for a brand new from Big Als.

Another purchase I made was 20Gal + 10Gal, both with power filter, one with heater, both with full hood with lights, air pump, etc, all for $60 from kijiji. Both tanks were very clean, they also had cleaned it prior to sale, so I had very little work to do to prepare these - except letting them sit out in my backyard for few days to remove all the smell (they came from a smoker's house) but overall this was a very good purchase.

The bad purchase I made was mostly my fault. However, I did not know better, and the seller had a very good rating at pricenetwork. He's also pretty nice guy but sort of lack attention to detail, so what's good enough for him isn't anywhere close to being decent to me 

Anyway, I still look through pricenetwork and kijiji regularly for a good deal. You can definitely find a good purchase there, and here as well. I'm sure the reputable members selling here in GTAaquaria will be a safe one, but if you have not bought second hand stuff before, just be very careful.

Also, always check the price from big als as well. Some sellers simply do not know the market value, and have seen things priced unreasonably for a heavily used stuff.

I'm sorry about your losses too. I've lost a few fishes when I started out this hobby as well. I still lose some time to time for other reasons, but none due to water quality lately.

I have some neon tetras in my 20gal, and they were the last ones added to that tank. Just like others have said, they are rather sensitive to water conditions, so just be extra careful with them.

just my 2 cents.


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