# Hello from Thornhill



## pchan

Hi everybody!

My names Pat ,if you know member zenkeri and like him then I'm his nephew  . Ive kept aquariums all my life, recently however I've just been bit by the nano bug, the micro-managers dream. 

At the moment i'm focusing all my efforts towards one 2 Gallon (including sump) DIY Plant tank. Dimensions: 8"x8"x8". Currently its covered in HC, with bits of drawf hair grass and micranthenum umbrosum (hoping to add some Val. nana). In there also are 11 cardinals, 2 petricolas, 7 amano shrimp, a vampire shrimp, a baby bushy, a nerite snail, couple of ram horns, Malaysian trumpets, and pond snails. the pond snails are mainly in the sump as a cleaning crew, oh yeah forgot about the double moon dragon scale betta. I know, I know uncle dave, to many fish ... theyre doing great so far though  .


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## igor.kanshyn

It's a perfect aquascape out there! Plants and rocks look brilliant and are really tied up together.


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## trailblazer295

Welcome aboard, nice looking tank.


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## Fish_Man

allo and welcome!

Looks great!! I really like the dragon betta too! saw them on sale on the BA flyer.

cool looking sump too, any more pictures? I want to see the sump more =P


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## pchan

Hi Everyone,

Sorry it took so long to add more pictures. Got chastised by my uncle for posting such a bad pic last time so i cleaned my tank, polished my tubings and hauled out all the photo gear. Started at 11:00pm... its 8:07am right now, i think i have a touch of OCD  . Thanks for all the welcoming comments!










you don't want to know how many pics i took to get those cardinals all lined up 

thanks to Ciddian for teaching me how to embed pics into my post 










these tanks are actually vases...couldn't find any rimless tanks in Toronto. unfortunately they're not as clear as flat glass so you'll see a lot of aberrations










Unfortunately my dragon scale betta jumped out last night 

my DIY sump as requested 










80.5 F ... way to hot, my cheapo condo manager still hasn't turned on the AC yet. Everything's cooking in there . temp was at 85F this afternoon!



















my DIY CO2 system. Gonna switch to pressurized soon, just waiting for my regulator shipment from china.

Well, hope you guys liked the pics  . all i need now is val. nana in the back right corner.


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## Fish_Man

that is some awesome sump system. Looks cool


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## zenkeri

*nice pictures*

I didn't chastise him. I just said for a guy whose job involves photography, your pictures should be nicer. btw that's what Uncles are for they push you to do better. Much better pictures this time around. When do you need the plant cuttings?


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## igor.kanshyn

It's a perfect setup and aquascape!


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## WiyRay

I'm jealous


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## pchan

trailblazer295 said:


> Welcome aboard, nice looking tank.


Thanks trailblazer295!



Fish_Man said:


> that is some awesome sump system. Looks cool


Thanks Fish_Man  I'm a firm believer that simpler is not better.



zenkeri said:


> I didn't chastise him. I just said for a guy whose job involves photography, your pictures should be nicer. btw that's what Uncles are for they push you to do better. Much better pictures this time around. When do you need the plant cuttings?


Thanks unci dave  . I can't wait till I get my macro stuff back, then I can take some cool closeups. Thanks for the cuttings, gonna trade someone today for val. nana. YAY!



igor.kanshyn said:


> It's a perfect setup and aquascape!


Thanks Igor! Its an adaptation of a Sanzon Iwagumi style.



WiyRay said:


> I'm jealous


 thanks WiyRay


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## Ciddian

> regulator shipment from china


Regular eh?? Bwahaha good to know! LOL!!!

Omg your set up is so amazing! I am really overwhelmed at how you got all that stuff to work together. I can't even get my brain around your over flow.

Could you explain it more if you have the time?


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## Cory

Welcome to the forum, great to see another Thornhiller on the forums! Amazing little setup you have there and my fiance and I were very impressed by its filtration lol. Keep up the good work!


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## Cypher

Welcome and nice setup!

Any problems with fish jumping out?


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## crxmaniac

Absolutely incredible setup, wicked sump!!!


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## pchan

Cypher said:


> Welcome and nice setup!
> 
> Any problems with fish jumping out?


Thanks Cypher  !

I had alot of fish and shrimp jump out in the beginning, so i made this glass top for the main tank to prevent casualties.

update: just added val. nana to my tank yesterday compliments of crxmaniac (thanks buddy!) unfortunately i lost 4 amano shrimps yesterday  guess they climbed up the vals and out that little space at the back and side. I'm gong to alter the top today... poor shrimp  . I dont know how my betta did it but it made it through that gap too










i also made tops for the sump and reservoir to reduce evaporation



















the glass is actually photoframes from the dollar store. went through a bunch of them before getting the hang of glass cutting.


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## pchan

Cory said:


> Welcome to the forum, great to see another Thornhiller on the forums! Amazing little setup you have there and my fiance and I were very impressed by its filtration lol. Keep up the good work!


Thanks Cory! wow, my little setup is getting alot more attention than I expected 



crxmaniac said:


> Absolutely incredible setup, wicked sump!!!


Thanks crxmaniac! and thanks for the vals!!! I apologize for my bad sense of direction, gonna buy a gps this week


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## pchan

Ciddian said:


> Regular eh?? Bwahaha good to know! LOL!!!
> 
> Omg your set up is so amazing!


Thanks Ciddian!! and thanks for teaching me how to embed pics in my post! I'm having alot of fun posting and meeting new friendly people



Ciddian said:


> I am really overwhelmed at how you got all that stuff to work together. I can't even get my brain around your over flow.
> 
> Could you explain it more if you have the time?


K, I'll try my best to explain how my system works. here we go...

Step 1> first water enters the system through a 3/4" tube (part 1 fig.1 ) from the main tank into a weir system (part 2 fig.1). My weir system was inspired by lock chambers that allow boats to travel pass dams (fig.2) My weir system allows me to have a higher water level in the main tank and and a lower water level in the sump.

Step 2> from there water from the weir exits through an output tube (part 3 fig.1). there are 2 functions to this part. 1) most obviously it outputs water from the weir to the next component in the sump system 2) by lifting, dropping or rotating this tube i can control the water level in the main tank.

Also no matter how much water evaporates from the whole system the water level in the main tank always stays the same.

Step 3> from there water spills into a coarse wire filters that again have 2 functions 1) coarse prefilter than can easily be rinsed 2) help slow and dissipate the flow of the water so that part 5 can properly distribute the water evenly throughout the foam. heres a hint to you diyer's; you should not rest the distribution plate (part 5) directly on your foam. clogs can happen easily this way, if you raise the plate above the media, clogs will be prevented and water will not overflow the plate.

Step 4> water is dripped through foam for medium mechanical filtration (part 6). With all the air and water contact i woudl also guess there would be huge nitrifying bacteria colonies in there.

Step 5> once the water passes through the foam the water drips into the 2nd chamber (part 7) that contains first ceramic rings to grow "massive colonies of bacteria" (thats what they claim  ) I would have used bioballs but they're all too big for my design, plus i like the white colour of the ceramics  . Under the ceramics is a poly pad for fine mechanical filteration, followed by a 50micron filter pad to scrub the water. I know its extreme but....I DONT CARE ITS MY TANK!  finally below all that is some more of the filter foam to prevent clogs.

Theres actually alot of green hair algae growing in the 2nd bin on the sides of the poly, micron and foam. I used to care alot and rinsed it constantly. Now i just leave it taking a page from the marine guys. I figure the algae in there will help with nutrient export especially nitrogen and phosphates (correct me if im wrong  ). To clean the algae off the ceramics and to keep the drip holes in the above bin from clogging with algae i keep a bunch of snails in here. (MTS's and ponds)

Step 6> the water exits the 2nd bin to the bottom of the sump where it is heated (part 11) tested for CO2 (part 13) then returned to the main tank via pump and tube (part 8) I have a second pump in there that feeds water into my CO2 reactor part 9) (sorry thats the only piece im going to keep secret, im developing it hoping to patent it.  ) cool part is that its really small and can completely dissolve CO2 into the water stream.

part no.10 is my reservoir. theres a pump in there that i can switch on with a remote control to fill my tank when the water levels low and to fill the tank during water changes. I'm working on a mini float switch and relay that will automatically fill the sump and a second system that with turn everything off to prevent the main tank from overflowing.









fig 1









fig 2

So thats the whole system .. whew. time to take a breath . Wow I just summarized 4 months of observation and experimentation into one post.

Ciddian, i'm new here, do you think i should repost this in the DIY section?


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## pchan

Sorry forgot to mention; if anyone has any suggestions to improve my system please let me know, I'm always trying to perfect it. I think I've revised it on a daily basis for the last 4 months  . 

Cheers!


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## Fish_Man

good explanation!


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## Windowlicka

pchan said:


> Sorry forgot to mention; if anyone has any suggestions to improve my system please let me know, I'm always trying to perfect it. I think I've revised it on a daily basis for the last 4 months  .
> 
> Cheers!


I wouldn't change a single thing. Not one. Your setup is incredible, and that sump is a stroke of creative genius, and a work of art.


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## Ciddian

Thats amazing! Thank you so much for explaining it so well for me pchan, plumbing and the like is not a strength of mine. lol

If you like feel free to repost in the DIY  Its totally up to you.


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## pchan

Fish_Man said:


> good explanation!


Thanks  ! let me know if you have any more questions.


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## pchan

Windowlicka said:


> I wouldn't change a single thing. Not one. Your setup is incredible, and that sump is a stroke of creative genius, and a work of art.


wow, that made my day !! To be honest based on other forums ive browsed, when I first started this thread I was half expecting more criticisms than praise  . Zenkeri told me you guys are really nice, i guess i should listen to my uncle more 

dont get me wrong though, i welcome criticisms. If anyone has any suggestions for a change in design, aquascape, fish etc please let me know!!


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## Fish_Man

pchan said:


> Thanks  ! let me know if you have any more questions.


I will one day! when I decide to do the same thing, I'll probably ask you to come over and help.. lol


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## pchan

Fish_Man said:


> I will one day! when I decide to do the same thing, I'll probably ask you to come over and help.. lol


lol, surething! should be fun


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## pchan

Ciddian said:


> Thats amazing! Thank you so much for explaining it so well for me pchan, plumbing and the like is not a strength of mine. lol


No probs Ciddian! It was kinda fun putting all that to paper, metaphorically speaking  . Makes me wish I kept a journal of the whole process. What you see now is miles different than what I started with.


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## Fish_Man

pchan said:


> wow, that made my day !! To be honest based on other forums ive browsed, when I first started this thread I was half expecting more criticisms than praise  . Zenkeri told me you guys are really nice, i guess i should listen to my uncle more
> 
> dont get me wrong though, i welcome criticisms. If anyone has any suggestions for a change in design, aquascape, fish etc please let me know!!


fine.. if you REALLY want a criticism then I'll give one 

I don't like the color of your sponge.. get a green one hehe.. nah I'm joking.

but I would like to see that setup for a bigger tank too, wonder if you would change anything for a bigger tank.


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## trailblazer295

Big Als has various styles and smal sizes of rimless thanks now.


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## igor.kanshyn

trailblazer295 said:


> Big Als has various styles and smal sizes of rimless thanks now.


Interesting, Have you seen them?
I've found only this http://www.bigalsonline.ca/BigAlsCA/ctl3664/cp18108/si2021755/cl0/tomdecokit3gallonacrylicnanotank on their site.


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## trailblazer295

They have several different styles at BA scarb, various shapes and sizes. Seen them a few times they are by the top of the stairs.


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## igor.kanshyn

That's a perfect set up! Thank you for expiation how it works


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## TBemba

I would change the fish the Cardinals are too big.

Get some Boraras

I have these guys in a 10 gallon
Very tiny size of a gain of rice

Nice fish and small 1.2 inches would make the scale better IMO

Nice tank


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## igor.kanshyn

TBemba said:


> I would change the fish the Cardinals are too big.
> 
> Get some Boraras
> 
> I have these guys in a 10 gallon
> Very tiny size of a gain of rice
> 
> Nice fish and small 1.2 inches would make the scale better IMO
> 
> Nice tank


It's interesting idea.
Do they really small? 1.2" is not that small. What size of your fishes?

And I see that need pH under 7.0. Do you care about it?


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## igor.kanshyn

TBemba said:


> I would change the fish the Cardinals are too big.
> 
> Get some Boraras
> 
> I have these guys in a 10 gallon
> Very tiny size of a gain of rice
> 
> Nice fish and small 1.2 inches would make the scale better IMO
> 
> Nice tank


It's interesting idea.
Do they really small? 1.2" is not that small, but it might be maximum size. What size of your fishes?

And I see that they need pH under 7.0. Do you care about this?


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## TBemba

igor.kanshyn said:


> It's interesting idea.
> Do they really small? 1.2" is not that small, but it might be maximum size. What size of your fishes?
> 
> And I see that they need pH under 7.0. Do you care about this?


I use straight out of the tap water with conditioner of course. I do small water changes like 10% a week. No worries about ph, but maybe needed for breeding.

I bought 6 at the Hamilton Auction and have had them almost 3 months and they are still under an inch |---| Actual size like uncooked rice smaller than a full size Cherry shrimp female about the size of a male cherry shrimp.

I have them in with Miniature corys and the corys are twice their size.


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## WateraDrop

that's beautiful! it looks like the shrimp are mountain goats climbing that rock lol. I want to make one now!


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## pchan

igor.kanshyn said:


> That's a perfect set up! Thank you for expiation how it works


No problem buddy


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## pchan

TBemba said:


> I would change the fish the Cardinals are too big.
> 
> Get some Boraras
> 
> I have these guys in a 10 gallon
> Very tiny size of a gain of rice
> 
> Nice fish and small 1.2 inches would make the scale better IMO
> 
> Nice tank


Hi TBemba, I completely agree. Actually I started with the Boraras or "Chilli's" had a whole bunch in the beginning some died, some jumped out, and some got eaten by my betta. I really liked them, they were small and stayed in tight schools. The only thing was that the colours never came in. All of them stayed pretty pale. I think its because it was either too bright in there or not enough cover. I still have three of them. I wanted to stay away from cardinals from the very beginning, but it was too hard to resist that electric blue lure


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## pchan

WateraDrop said:


> that's beautiful! it looks like the shrimp are mountain goats climbing that rock lol. I want to make one now!


thanks WateraDrop!


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## DaFishMan

Welcome aboard. I like the setup, very unique


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## Chris S

Well, we should hook up a chiller for you, keep that temperature down ; )


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## pchan

DaFishMan said:


> Welcome aboard. I like the setup, very unique


Thanks DaFishMan


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## pchan

Chris S said:


> Well, we should hook up a chiller for you, keep that temperature down ; )


My Condo finally turned the AC on!! With the little marina heater in there my Aquarium stays around 78 or so. To bad theres no temp control on those little heaters  I would've prefered around 76 instead... in think

Chiller... interesting, how does it work? do you DIY one? Ive been brainstorming how i would make one.


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## igor.kanshyn

pchan said:


> Chiller... interesting, how does it work? do you DIY one? Ive been brainstorming how i would make one.


You can use a modern refrigerators that can make ice cubes. And develop a pipe line for sliding ice cubes into your sump


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## Fish_Man

do you have to pay electricity for you condo? if not then AC all the way up so its like winter in your place  


I have to pay electricity for my condo but not hydro which is somewhat good


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## pchan

igor.kanshyn said:


> You can use a modern refrigerators that can make ice cubes. And develop a pipe line for sliding ice cubes into your sump


 interesting idea... i think 

actually i was thinking more along the lines of routing the water through metal tubing thermally connected to a heat sink and fan....kinda like reverse of how you water cool a computer.


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## pchan

Fish_Man said:


> do you have to pay electricity for you condo? if not then AC all the way up so its like winter in your place
> 
> I have to pay electricity for my condo but not hydro which is somewhat good


same with me... starting a few years ago we started having to pay for electricity. My condo is a frosty 69F now


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## Cory

Just to be clear you and Phillip.Chan are not the same person right?  What are the odds of two P. Chans on the same forum ? (assuming that's even your name and not just some acronym I don't get lol)


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## ameekplec.

Cory said:


> What are the odds of two P. Chans on the same forum ?


In the GTA? Maybe just as likely as 2 P.Patels


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## pchan

Cory said:


> Just to be clear you and Phillip.Chan are not the same person right?  What are the odds of two P. Chans on the same forum ?





ameekplec. said:


> In the GTA? Maybe just as likely as 2 P.Patels


lol, I'm Pat Chan, not Phillip Chan  .



Cory said:


> (assuming that's even your name and not just some acronym I don't get lol)


Actually P-Chan was the name of the pig in Ranma 1/2


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## Cory

ameekplec. said:


> In the GTA? Maybe just as likely as 2 P.Patels


lol

I guess Chan is like a Smith in the east?


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## kennedy22

igor.kanshyn said:


> It's a perfect aquascape out there! Plants and rocks look brilliant and are really tied up together.


I didn't chastise him. I just said for a guy whose job involves photography, your pictures should be nicer. btw that's what Uncles are for they push you to do better. Much better pictures this time around. When do you need the plant cuttings?


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