# Putting together a Paintball CO2 system (Durham Region) - a running commentary.



## HOWsMom

I'm starting this to keep a running log of getting this started.

Right now I'm pricing the pieces, not purchasing.
I've been to Lowe's, Canadian Tire and Hero Army Surplus - all in Oshawa.

*Tanks *:
9oz @ Canadian Tire w/ a visual stripe on the side to show how full it is = $29.
24oz tank of same kind = $49.
20oz tank @ Hero's Army Surplus = $40
20oz tank @ Badlands (Pickering) = $30

*Refills *:
$7.00 for 20oz

*ASA On/Off valve* :
Hero Army = $50
On Ebay = $5 for 2.

*Needle Valve* :
Watts A-41 @ Lowe's : $6.50
Watts A-40 @ Lowe's : $4.50

*Compression Ring *:
@ Lowe's : $1.10

*Nut* :
@ Lowe's : $1.10

*CO2 Tubing* :
20ft @ Lowe's : $3.28

*Teflon Tape*
at Lowe's : $1.00


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## arc

Try http://www.badlandspaintball.com/co2_tanks.html if they are near you. They had the 20oz tanks going for 23.99 during the boxing week I believe. You could also pick up a used Asa value cheap if they have any.


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## HOWsMom

I don't get to Pickering often, but I might have to just to check them out.


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## FlyingHellFish

You sure this is the route to take? All you need is an adapter to fit a normal Co2 regulator. 

The cost of a paintball set up compare to a normal co2 rig isn't quite that far off. You can spend a bit more, get a Co2 rig and have the option to use a standard 5 - 20 lbs cylinders. 

I also heard it's not all that safe with a ASA On/Off, there constant pressure on those needle valves that are not rated for that much work. 

Not sure if it's all that safe, there a huge list discussing a paintball set up at another fish forum (it's massive) , not sure if I can post link but I'm sure you guys know what I'm talking about.

Someone with more experience can chime in on the safety level of a paint ball kit, 

Cue member DarkBlade, we need your opinion,


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## coldmantis

from my own personal experience, running paintball setups for 2+ years having bulit 20+ of these, I can say with your list of needle valves, your going to have trouble. just do the math paintball tank is 850psi while those needle valves are 450psi, get something that's rated higher I used to use swaglok ones rated for 3500psi. Now since I been doing this for a while now, I run my setup as follows, 24oz paintball, jacpac paintball regulator, solenoid vavle, clippard needle valve, jbj bubble counter, brass check valve. if your determine to go this route great, no matter what people tell you "why don't go full" well it's not about the cost it's about the space you have and the luxury of moving the setup around freely, if you dont' drive how are you going to carry a 10lb, 20lb on the bus without stares and questions, while with paintball you can go to any arena all over the city and fill it for 5 bucks every 5-6months (cheaper then yeast+sugar). As for the possibility of end of tank dump, from my experience it happened twice but the way the paintball adapters are design there is a bleed whole on the side so if you tank goes threw end of tank dump it bleeds out completely from the side and not in your tank!. for the members on this forum who bought fish/plants from me they can tell you how much they like my paintball setup and how hard they try to convince me to sell it to them. all this can be done for under $100( full setup regulated, not unregulated asa adapter)


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## HOWsMom

I took the part numbers from a thread on "planted tank" forum.

What are the problems that could happen with the listed needle valve ?


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## lemuj

HOWsMom said:


> I took the part numbers from a thread on "planted tank" forum.
> 
> What are the problems that could happen with the listed needle valve ?


ok, I see what coldmantis is saying, 850 psi pressure is coming out of that paintball canister, and your needle valve is only rated for 450 psi, two things could happen, you may have a very hard time opening that valve, or soon as you open that thing, the whole valve might actually shoot out.

coldmantis, now am very curious to see what you got going, I know you listed the parts you're using, but for some of us, visual is so much better. I may have seen a glimpse of your setup somewhere but if you got pics of pieces and the whole setup would really be nice.


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## HOWsMom

Yes - more info, and pictures would be wonderful please coldmantis


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## HOWsMom

And thank you for "getting it" about the lack of space !


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## coldmantis

first pic is a size comparison to an ai 7.5 gallon cube
second is a closeup for my 40g breeder
third is a size comparison to a 40g breeder with your average walmart aquarium stand
forth is no solenoid split into 2 5.5g's


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## HOWsMom

Where do you find the jacpac regulators ? Or any similar item ?


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## coldmantis

20 bucks canadian tire, came with a 9oz tank too!. I bought 4 around early last year.


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## tom g

*jac pak*

i chkd every canadian tire in toronto no one has any .chk at princess auto .they are a portable nail hammer kit . home hardware carries them but u have to order and they are a hundred dollars . i found mine thru a fellow member ,who got it from e bay i think he paid sixty bucks for it .


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## FlyingHellFish

That jpac retails for more than 20, I think coldmantis told me he got it on boxing day. 

I seen his set up and yes, they are amazing. I try to get him to sell me one but no deal, hahah. 

If space is an issue, you don't HAVE to use those 5 - 20 lbs cylinders. Just get a adapter, and a 20 - 24 oz paintball tank. How big are normal Co2 rig compare to those ASA valves, can't be that much different in size.

God, I wish they sold the Aquatic Life regulator for a reasonable price. It's small and would love amazing with a paintball tank. BA has it for 200 dollars, which is insane.


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## coldmantis

it is true that most canadian tire's sell it for more then 60 but ymmv for some stupid reason canadian tire prices range from store to store, I saw some for 49 and some for 79, I bought mines from lawrence square canadian tire because a member here told me they sell it for 20 bucks so on my way to work I bought 2, brought it home, when to home depot to get some fittings put it together with a swagelok needle valve and was amazed by how well it works for the price you pay, went back bought 2 more and just ran 4 setups with swagelok valves, then I decided to try those cheapo needle valves on ebay and those bubble counters on real full setups and it works great, ordered quite a few more. Then a few months ago I found some cheapo solenoid valves and decided to give it a try, turned out to work great and ordered more. I want to say how long this last on a 40g breeder running at 2bps from 5pm to 3am but I simply didn't time it all the way yet, I'm timing it now I marked the paintball tank for dec 30th 2011 we will see how long this will last me with a solenoid valve, before running the same bubble rate it would last me around 2.5 months before refill but that's straight 24/7. I will post how long it last when it empties on me.


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## charlie1

FlyingHellFish said:


> That jpac retails for more than 20, I think coldmantis told me he got it on boxing day.
> 
> I seen his set up and yes, they are amazing. I try to get him to sell me one but no deal, hahah.
> 
> If space is an issue, you don't HAVE to use those 5 - 20 lbs cylinders. Just get a adapter, and a *20 - 24 oz paintball tank*. How big are normal Co2 rig compare to those ASA valves, can't be that much different in size.
> 
> God, I wish they sold the Aquatic Life regulator for a reasonable price. It's small and would love amazing with a paintball tank. BA has it for 200 dollars, which is insane.


What is the dimensions of those tanks?


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## FlyingHellFish

^ Just normal size paintball tanks. I don't think paintball co2 will last very long on your 79 gallon tank, beside it's perfect as it is. 

If you can get those jpac rig for a good price, it's worth the effort. Coldmantis is right about those big cylinders, it's a huge hassle and weight a lot. It defeats the purpose of a beautiful planted tank when you have a huge cylinder at the side. The focus point will be the Co2 set up, rather than your fish tank. I don't want explain to people who come over why I have a science project hooked up on my kitchen counter. 

I'm telling you guys, the Aquatic Life Nano regulator with a paint ball adapter is the sexiest thing for Co2 paintball, too bad it cost almost as much as a professional rig.


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## charlie1

FlyingHellFish said:


> ^ Just normal size paintball tanks. I don't think paintball co2 will last very long on your 79 gallon tank, beside it's perfect as it is.
> 
> If you can get those jpac rig for a good price, it's worth the effort. Coldmantis is right about those big cylinders, it's a huge hassle and weight a lot. It defeats the purpose of a beautiful planted tank when you have a huge cylinder at the side. The focus point will be the Co2 set up, rather than your fish tank. I don't want explain to people who come over why I have a science project hooked up on my kitchen counter.
> 
> I'm telling you guys, the Aquatic Life Nano regulator with a paint ball adapter is the sexiest thing for Co2 paintball, too bad it cost almost as much as a professional rig.


 My reason for asking is far from entertaining changing my 2 set ups i support your recommendations that is exactly where i was going when i asked the size of the bottles.
that Aquaticlife rig is the way to go when space is a premium & coupled with that a 2.5 LB bottle if possible but that is only my personal opinion & will not always apply to when space is a premium.

http://reefbuilders.com/2010/10/25/aquaticlife-compact-co2-regulator-nano-reef-crowd/
http://www.beveragefactory.com/draftbeer/tanks/co2/C25H.shtml
The price for this combo will rival the cost of a paintball set up, with more gas & less refilling not to mention the cost of refilling is not that different.
Regards


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## coldmantis

charlie1 said:


> What is the dimensions of those tanks?


not sure about the cylinder size but if you look at the ai 7.5g cube it's probably around 13" with the regulator, if you go the asa adapter route it will probably be around the 12" this is on a 24oz tank, full weight of the tank only is about 3.9-4.1lbs empty it's about 1.2-1.4lbs


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## HOWsMom

Found a "Jacpac" tank and regulator for $30. 

What else do I need ?


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## coldmantis

HOWsMom said:


> Found a "Jacpac" tank and regulator for $30.
> 
> What else do I need ?


good for you, persistence is the key. since your using jacpac you can use those cheapo 5 dollar needle valves at home depot since you can control the amount of pressure with the regulator. First thing you want to do is completely remove the quick disconnect on it, it should be a 1/4 npt thread after that, you need to find a 1/4 to 1/8" adapter from home depot and your done. regulator-1/4-1/8" adaper-cheapo HD needle valve.
30$ you said for the regulator
$2-$4 for the adapter
$3-$4 for the cheapo needle valve
make a bubble counter out of a plastic bottle
jam a cigarette butt in the end of the tubing for a great diffuser
and you done
under 40 bucks(I'm assuming your talking about the one on kijiji with the regulator and tank)


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## HOWsMom

Yep - the drive to Ajax didn't take me long at all.

I've got the hose off (that's the quick connect thing).

It's a 24 oz tank with it - I've seen it at Canadian Tire.

No access to cigarette butts here - I'll work on a diffuser soon.

How do you make a bubble counter out of a plastic bottle ?


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## Darkblade48

FlyingHellFish said:


> You sure this is the route to take? All you need is an adapter to fit a normal Co2 regulator.
> 
> The cost of a paintball set up compare to a normal co2 rig isn't quite that far off. You can spend a bit more, get a Co2 rig and have the option to use a standard 5 - 20 lbs cylinders.
> 
> Someone with more experience can chime in on the safety level of a paint ball kit,
> 
> Cue member DarkBlade, we need your opinion,


If you want, you can use a paintball CO2 cylinder, there is no issue with safety, as long as you use the proper equipment.

However, this is most likely a more expensive route to take, in the long run. As mentioned already, a paintball cylinder does not last very long. Refill costs may be less for smaller cylinders, but the cost does not increase appreciably even when filling a 20 pound cylinder. In addition, you will definitely want to be careful with the needle valve you purchase. While some people have gotten the cheap needle valves to work from the hardware store, I would not recommend this, especially if you are keeping expensive livestock. If you are only keeping plants, then there is no worry about excessive CO2 levels.

If space is truly an issue, then you may want to go with a paintball setup, but the cost of a normal CO2 setup can be the same, if not cheaper than a paintball setup.

Here is a picture of my CO2 setup (taken from my CO2 guide):

http://gtaaquaria.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12271&page=2#13

The entire setup cost me $180. If I had bargain hunted a bit more, I could have gotten the entire setup for under $150, but I was impatient...


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## HOWsMom

I picked up the fitting, valve, and hose today. Need to get a bubble counter (thinking of trying the syringe style), diffuser and drop checker.

Probably going to go with the wood stone thing for now - I have a glass diffuser on order from eBay.


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## HOWsMom

Darkblade48 said:


> If you want, you can use a paintball CO2 cylinder, there is no issue with safety, as long as you use the proper equipment.
> 
> However, this is most likely a more expensive route to take, in the long run. As mentioned already, a paintball cylinder does not last very long. Refill costs may be less for smaller cylinders, but the cost does not increase appreciably even when filling a 20 pound cylinder. In addition, you will definitely want to be careful with the needle valve you purchase. While some people have gotten the cheap needle valves to work from the hardware store, I would not recommend this, especially if you are keeping expensive livestock. If you are only keeping plants, then there is no worry about excessive CO2 levels.
> 
> If space is truly an issue, then you may want to go with a paintball setup, but the cost of a normal CO2 setup can be the same, if not cheaper than a paintball setup.
> 
> Here is a picture of my CO2 setup (taken from my CO2 guide):
> 
> http://gtaaquaria.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12271&page=2#13
> 
> The entire setup cost me $180. If I had bargain hunted a bit more, I could have gotten the entire setup for under $150, but I was impatient...


Space is a major factor for me - as is cash.
As it stands right now, I should have this entire set-up (with regulator) running for under $50.


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## HOWsMom

Holy finicky system !!

Yikes - trying to get that 2 bpm is a total pita.

Any advice ?


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## coldmantis

2 bpm = 2 bubbles per minute, do you mean 2 bubbles per second? use something to tap the knob adjuster for the needle valve don't try to use your hands. also make sure you set your pressure to at least 20 psi.


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## HOWsMom

Typo - yes, I meant 2 bubbles per second.


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## Darkblade48

With that particular needle valve, it will be very difficult to get it to 2 bps. I would recommend a better needle valve, but if price is an issue, then you can't do much.

Hopefully you don't gas your livestock


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## HOWsMom

Darkblade48 said:


> With that particular needle valve, it will be very difficult to get it to 2 bps. I would recommend a better needle valve, but if price is an issue, then you can't do much.


Keeping that in mind for when there are more funds available.
I used the parts recommended by other people who are successfully using them.



Darkblade48 said:


> Hopefully you don't gas your livestock


Are you always so supportive ?
I hope I don't gas them too - if I'd meant to kill them off, I would not have bought them.


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## charlie1

I wonder how the price & performance of your economic needle valve compares to this
http://www.aquainspiration.com/productdetail.asp?PIN=CO&PNAME=AI&PSIZE=NEEDLEV&PTYPE=CO2 Accessories
or this
http://www.clippard.com/store/display_details.asp?sku=MNV-3KP

Could have saved on the glass diffuser cost & get a Bamboo chop stick from your local Chinese chef for free or run the C)2 into a canister filter if you have one & there is also the el cheapo diffuser from Fluval for around 10.00 that in my opnion out performs the nice glass diffuser & the bonus no shipping cost , walk in the Big Al`s pick it up & pay. oh there is also cheap beer co2 regulators available like 30.00 or so when funds become available,& voila you have a better regulator set for about 50.00
Regards


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## HOWsMom

charlie1 said:


> I wonder how the price & performance of your economic needle valve compares to this
> http://www.aquainspiration.com/productdetail.asp?PIN=CO&PNAME=AI&PSIZE=NEEDLEV&PTYPE=CO2 Accessories
> or this
> http://www.clippard.com/store/display_details.asp?sku=MNV-3KP
> 
> Could have saved on the glass diffuser cost & get a Bamboo chop stick from your local Chinese chef for free or run the C)2 into a canister filter if you have one & there is also the el cheapo diffuser from Fluval for around 10.00 that in my opnion out performs the nice glass diffuser & the bonus no shipping cost , walk in the Big Al`s pick it up & pay. oh there is also cheap beer co2 regulators available like 30.00 or so when funds become available,& voila you have a better regulator set for about 50.00
> Regards


Price wise - less than half those, with no shipping.

Performance - I have no comparison at this time, but I'll keep those links for down the road. Probably not the greatest, as I'm seeing now from the finickiness of the valve right now.

If I can find a better valve locally, I will probably pick it up. *Thank you* for taking the time to show me some to look for.

The diffuser was $2 I think, and I added it to an order on ebay I was already making - since I had that amount in PayPal. I'm thinking now I should have looked for a bubble counter instead, but that's hindsight.

I appreciate everyone's helping me - this site has been amazingly welcoming and helpful to this "newbie" !


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## charlie1

Aquainspiration is in TO Kennedy road near Pacific Mall.
Clippard dealer in Toronto
Regards


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## HOWsMom

charlie1 said:


> Aquainspiration is in TO Kennedy road near Pacific Mall.
> Clippard dealer in Toronto
> Regards


Thank you


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## coldmantis

HOWsMom said:


> Thank you


before you go out and buy it here is my advise.

first things first, take the whole tank while still connected to the regulator and running and turn it upside down and dip it in your tank, if you see any bubbles coming out you have a leak and will have to address it.
second that needle valve is a little harder to adjust but it does do 2bps even 3bps but it won't do anything like 1 bubble per 1.5 sec and above
third if you decide to buy that needle valve go and inspect it first before you purchase it, I bought that from them before it's not silver like the picture on their website it's brass and looks used, if you see it and it's looks used turn around and run out of the store. they told me it's brand new even though I told them it looks used. it is so unstable you won't even believe and that lie really pissed me off and wasted my time. return it the next day but since they dont' do refunds they gave me store credit.....


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