# Plumbing options/variations on Red Sea Reefer 250



## canadianeh

I am going to set up a brand new Reefer 250 system. I would like to set up the plumbing by adding some on and off valves so that in the future if I NEED to add reactors, I can just "plug" them in and remove them as I wish without re-plumbing the whole system again. 

Does anyone out here have these kind of set up on their Reefer 250? Can you please share your plumbing pictures? Also, where do you get your color PVC pipes. I am looking to set up mine super neat and no clutters. I possibly thinking about using an IKEA furniture and mod it to fit all controller and power bar so that they are out of the tank cabinet. 

Thank you


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## mmatt

No experience with the reefers but the coloured PVC can be found on Amazon. I went with all dark grey and JJ downs is the place for that. Make sure tge Ikea cabinet can handle whatever weight you might be putting in it. 

Also keep in mind that depending on how much plumping you add, it could add extra water to your system. Meaning if there is a power outage you don't want your sump to overflow since I'm guessing those reefer systems are designed as an all in one and designed just for a specific water capacity in their sump. 

Cheers


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## canadianeh

Sorry for the confusion but the Ikea cabinet is only for the controllers only and it will be sitting next to the tank cabinet


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## canadianeh

I found this plumbing design on YouTube. What do you guys think?


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## wtac

Many ways to "skin a cat".

From one that worked in the industry, I cannot recommend colored PVC as "furniture grade" PVC is not pressure nor NSF (potable) certified. 

SCH40/80 is just dimensional specification and that's it. 

Though plumbing from the stand to the aquarium doesn't experience a significant amount of water/internal pressure, if you wish to use colored furniture grade PVC, do so at your own risk and whatever you do, DO NOT use the colored PVC fittings.

Believe you me, I have been contacted by insurance companies for aquarium related claims and using furniture grade colored PVC and fittings will be part of their exclusionary clause of coverage and you will have to pursue legal action from whom you bought it from as you are using a non certified product for the intended end use.

Burst/cracked colored PVC furniture grade fitting pipe, pipe pop out of the fitting, you don't want me getting a call to come check things out or look over your file.


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## canadianeh

wtac said:


> Many ways to "skin a cat".
> 
> From one that worked in the industry, I cannot recommend colored PVC as "furniture grade" PVC is not pressure nor NSF (potable) certified.
> 
> SCH40/80 is just dimensional specification and that's it.
> 
> Though plumbing from the stand to the aquarium doesn't experience a significant amount of water/internal pressure, if you wish to use colored furniture grade PVC, do so at your own risk and whatever you do, DO NOT use the colored PVC fittings.
> 
> Believe you me, I have been contacted by insurance companies for aquarium related claims and using furniture grade colored PVC and fittings will be part of their exclusionary clause of coverage and you will have to pursue legal action from whom you bought it from as you are using a non certified product for the intended end use.
> 
> Burst/cracked colored PVC furniture grade fitting pipe, pipe pop out of the fitting, you don't want me getting a call to come check things out or look over your file.


I really appreciate your input especially as someone that is in the industry.

Pardon me if my questions seem stupid, but I am not experienced in this subject. Are you saying that NO ones in the industry that make coloured PVC and fittings that rated the same as the non-coloured ones? All the coloured ones that being sold by aquarium supplies stores are not rated the same as the non-coloured ones?

Why no-ones make the coloured ones with the same rating as we know that there is market for it?

I look forward to hear from you.

Thanks

Ps: this is the build that I was referring to
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/b...-build-ocd-inspired-going-green.211616/page-2


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## tom g

*wtac*

willi is the man , I cant tell u how many text msgs we have exchanged today over advice and opinions 
Toronto misses u pal...&#8230;&#8230;...


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## wtac

The only company that I know of that made certified pressure and potable colored PVC is GF+ in Germany. There is an Australian company that supplies "colored" PVC with a lengthwise colored band to indicate supply, raw sewage, rain water, etc.

Certifications are ASTM, ISO, DIN and stating burst pressure and temperature limitations as well as NSF for potablility meaning the material will not leach anything into the water in contact.

These business offering colored PVC pipe are all "furniture grade". For that purpose, there is no certification required. Like an egg, it can take alot of external force to crush/crack the pipe. That type of force resistance is fine but for plumbing, internal water pressure and potability are VERY important factors.

"We've sold thousands of feet of colored PVC and never an issue", "The piping from XYZ is as strong as, if not stronger than your regular sch.40 pvc Pipe" ...BAHAHAHA! Well, if that is a validation for certification or proper application, stop Bogarting and pass that Dutchie.

AFAIK, adding dye to the PVC mix does not alter the "solvent weld" strength but the UV protection additive/coating may affect the strength of the solvent weld. Like Ive said, for under the DT/cabinet plumbing, there isn't alot of pressure, but weigh the pros and cons/risk assessment to make that final decision. 

For basement/remote filtration, use the proper grey or white PVC pipe.

The volume production for colored PVC is a drop in the bucket compared for "instustrial use" and to have certified colored PVC pipe and fittings are not worth the cost.

If you really want the colored pipe, use Krylon Fusion paint or colored vinyl wrap.


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## canadianeh

wtac said:


> The only company that I know of that made certified pressure and potable colored PVC is GF+ in Germany. There is an Australian company that supplies "colored" PVC with a lengthwise colored band to indicate supply, raw sewage, rain water, etc.
> 
> Certifications are ASTM, ISO, DIN and stating burst pressure and temperature limitations as well as NSF for potablility meaning the material will not leach anything into the water in contact.
> 
> These business offering colored PVC pipe are all "furniture grade". For that purpose, there is no certification required. Like an egg, it can take alot of external force to crush/crack the pipe. That type of force resistance is fine but for plumbing, internal water pressure and potability are VERY important factors.
> 
> "We've sold thousands of feet of colored PVC and never an issue", "The piping from XYZ is as strong as, if not stronger than your regular sch.40 pvc Pipe" ...BAHAHAHA! Well, if that is a validation for certification or proper application, stop Bogarting and pass that Dutchie.
> 
> AFAIK, adding dye to the PVC mix does not alter the "solvent weld" strength but the UV protection additive/coating may affect the strength of the solvent weld. Like Ive said, for under the DT/cabinet plumbing, there isn't alot of pressure, but weigh the pros and cons/risk assessment to make that final decision.
> 
> For basement/remote filtration, use the proper grey or white PVC pipe.
> 
> The volume production for colored PVC is a drop in the bucket compared for "instustrial use" and to have certified colored PVC pipe and fittings are not worth the cost.
> 
> If you really want the colored pipe, use Krylon Fusion paint or colored vinyl wrap.


Really appreciate your advice. Where is the best place to buy the industrial grade PVC pipe, fittings, unions, and valves for aquarium purpose? Would you suggest pvcfittingsonline? I see that they have clear PVC industrial grade ones. That would be cool no? What would be the cons of having the clear ones for aquarium/sump?


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## wtac

If you have a parts list for the job, you can either go to JJ Downs in Etobicoke or Fabco in in the Woodbridge area. They have both grey and white pipe and fittings. Solvent, primer, and clear PVC, JJ Downs.

If you have other questions, I find JJ Downs a "friendlier" place to shop. Fabco has a clinical vibe where it's strictly business, order, get your stuff, pay and go.

Clear PVC has a hazy tint and not crystal clear like acrylic. If you are OCD like me, algae and calcerous growth in the transparent pipe would drive me crazy .

Though the pipe has print on it, its on one side so when you glue the pipes together, make sure the print is faced away from line of sight. If in future you want a splash of color on the pipe, get "vinyl wrap" from a print shop and apply it to the pipes. Change color, change the wrap .


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## canadianeh

wtac said:


> If you have a parts list for the job, you can either go to JJ Downs in Etobicoke or Fabco in in the Woodbridge area. They have both grey and white pipe and fittings. Solvent, primer, and clear PVC, JJ Downs.
> 
> If you have other questions, I find JJ Downs a "friendlier" place to shop. Fabco has a clinical vibe where it's strictly business, order, get your stuff, pay and go.
> 
> Clear PVC has a hazy tint and not crystal clear like acrylic. If you are OCD like me, algae and calcerous growth in the transparent pipe would drive me crazy .
> 
> Though the pipe has print on it, its on one side so when you glue the pipes together, make sure the print is faced away from line of sight. If in future you want a splash of color on the pipe, get "vinyl wrap" from a print shop and apply it to the pipes. Change color, change the wrap .


I am OCD that's for sure. I will not go with transparent PVC pipe then. You brought a very important factor to consider.

Where do you buy your vinyl wrap for this purpose?

I don't have the list as I don't really know what I need in term of the names for the parts. I know how the look like so that's how I am going to shop for the parts just by looking.

Now in term of their sizes, what size I need to go for PVC piping, unions, and valves? Schedule 40 or 80 for the piping? how do I know which size of unions, fittings, and valves I need if I go for either schedule 40 or 80?


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## wtac

You can get vinyl wrap from a sign print shop. There are YT vids to apply it, rubbing alcohol to clean the surfaces, spray bottle of water and spray on surfaces to make positioning easier and a plastic card, like an expired/unused bank/CC/membership card to push the air/water bubble out for a smooth finish.

Easiest way to determine parts is to draw/map out the plumbing runs. Use straight lines for the pipe run and every bend a fitting (45* or 90* elbow).

Places that you want to disconnect and reconnect is a union. Flow control a valve. On/off/half way a True Union Ball Valve (TUBV) and precise flow, a gate valve.

SCH40 is all you need for cabinet to aquarium plumbing.

Sizing you match up with the size of bulkhead. Reducing to match pump output diameter, reactor input diameter, etc. Here's where it can get complicated with the various types of reducing bushings to meet the "termination"/end run. Ie, MPT-barb, SPIG-FPT reducing bushing, SOC-FPT reducing bushing, adapters, etc.

Either we can help you with a parts list here or you can go to JJ Downs with your plan and the guys there will help you with what you need based on your plumbing diagram and supporting equipment..they are AWESOME that way!


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## merlin416

to do 250 redsea metric pipe to standard pipe, the only one special part you will need to find is either 1 of 3/4" male to slip, or 32mm x 1" pvc adapter or 32mm x 1" transition union to convert to standard pipes (JJ downs has all of them). after that you can plan whatever manifold you like, but i suggest you google what other people have done to get some ideas going.

spear gate vale (aquariumdepot)
color pvc pipe (aquarium deopt or reefpvc.ca)

grey 3/4" & 1" pvc pipe and all fittings (sch 40/80) local plumbing store


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## canadianeh

I was looking at the web stores and they have different types and confusing. For an example, for the gate spear valves, they have threaded, slip, socket??? I have no idea what’s the different lol

There is also PVC vs CPVC??


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## canadianeh

merlin416 said:


> to do 250 redsea metric pipe to standard pipe, the only one special part you will need to find is either 1 of 3/4" male to slip, or 32mm x 1" pvc adapter or 32mm x 1" transition union to convert to standard pipes (JJ downs has all of them). after that you can plan whatever manifold you like, but i suggest you google what other people have done to get some ideas going.
> 
> spear gate vale (aquariumdepot)
> color pvc pipe (aquarium deopt or reefpvc.ca)
> 
> grey 3/4" & 1" pvc pipe and all fittings (sch 40/80) local plumbing store


I want to convert all three pipes that come down from the overflow to hard plumbing and use Neptune COR20. Which parts do I need? Do I need spear gate valves on all those three pipes, or just on the drain?


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## wtac

IIRC, you can use 1" bulkheads (BH) to replace the OEM ones. One BH as a main drain with the gate valve, second BH emerg drain thats a straight run to the sump (Herbie Style overflow system) and the 3rd BH for the return connected to the pump.

Double check the drilled hole diameter first before spending $ on new bulkheads.

Just use all SOC/Slip fittings as it just makes life easier but once glued, it's permanent 

Threaded is used to attach the plumbing to other fittings/equipment.

IIRC there is a LocLine at the return and 1/2" so you will need a few threaded to slip/SOC (FPT and or MPT-SOC) fittings.

PVC is all that you need. CPVC is meant for hot water and diameters are different vs PVC.


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## canadianeh

wtac said:


> IIRC, you can use 1" bulkheads (BH) to replace the OEM ones. One BH as a main drain with the gate valve, second BH emerg drain thats a straight run to the sump (Herbie Style overflow system) and the 3rd BH for the return connected to the pump.
> 
> Double check the drilled hole diameter first before spending $ on new bulkheads.
> 
> Just use all SOC/Slip fittings as it just makes life easier but once glued, it's permanent
> 
> Threaded is used to attach the plumbing to other fittings/equipment.
> 
> IIRC there is a LocLine at the return and 1/2" so you will need a few threaded to slip/SOC (FPT and or MPT-SOC) fittings.
> 
> PVC is all that you need. CPVC is meant for hot water and diameters are different vs PVC.


I rather not messing around with the OEM bulkheads. I thought there is Red Sea part that we can order to help to connect hard plumbing to the original bulkheads?

Is there any downside of using unions instead of slip fittings other than it is permanent?


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## wtac

Unions are great for things that need to be disconnected/reconnected like pumps when they need to be serviced/replaced.

Generally not necessary and add a bit of complexity to putting things together.

If you are planning a move at some time down the road, unions are handy so that you can dismantle the plumbing and reassemble vs redoing it all. 

With SOC-SOC unions and SOC-FPT BHs, use a "riser pipe". A section of pipe that has both ends threaded. Cut so that you have about 1-1/8" of pipe past the threads. Glue the pipe into the slip union half with the nut. This is important as it makes connection to the other half easier vs fighting gravity if the nut is on the bottom half with one hand . Apply silicone to the threads and screw into the bulkhead. Carry on with the plumbing.

When you have to move/relocate the system, undo the union, remove downstream plumbing and unscrew the upper union from the BH and then the BH is removed and reusable. Adds about $50 to the overall cost and 30mins to the installation time.


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## canadianeh

wtac said:


> Unions are great for things that need to be disconnected/reconnected like pumps when they need to be serviced/replaced.
> 
> Generally not necessary and add a bit of complexity to putting things together.
> 
> If you are planning a move at some time down the road, unions are handy so that you can dismantle the plumbing and reassemble vs redoing it all.
> 
> With SOC-SOC unions and SOC-FPT BHs, use a "riser pipe". A section of pipe that has both ends threaded. Cut so that you have about 1-1/8" of pipe past the threads. Glue the pipe into the slip union half with the nut. This is important as it makes connection to the other half easier vs fighting gravity if the nut is on the bottom half with one hand . Apply silicone to the threads and screw into the bulkhead. Carry on with the plumbing.
> 
> When you have to move/relocate the system, undo the union, remove downstream plumbing and unscrew the upper union from the BH and then the BH is removed and reusable. Adds about $50 to the overall cost and 30mins to the installation time.


Sorry but what is " SOC-SOC unions and SOC-FPT". Not familiar with the term. 

What size of riser pipe I need that will fit the Reefer 250 BHs?


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## canadianeh

Also check this out using spigot. Would you recommend it?

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/b...build-ocd-inspired-going-green.211616/page-71


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## wtac

Plumbing nomenclature can be confusing. SOC (socket) and SLIP are used interchangeably meaning that the fitting is smooth and the fitting "slips into the socket".

SPIG (spigot) means the fitting "X" slips into a socket type "Y" fitting.

Threaded, two types used in Can/US in M (male) or F (female) PT (Pipe Thread) where it's MTP or FTP. Other abbreviations are F/MNTP (Female/Male Nominal Pipe Thread) or F/MIPT (Female/Male Iron Pipe Thread)

The link you posted is fine, but the RSR fittings and pipe are metric. Easier to replace the OEM BH's with standard imperial BH's, IMHO.

If you wish to use the OEM BH's, you will need to use threaded unions to attach to the SPIG-MPT fitting on the "nutted" half or a "Street" MPT-SLIP elbow or male adapter to get a SOC/SLIP to continue the plumbing run. Also with the link, the unions are upside down where the nut is on the bottom half. I prefer the nut on the top half so its easier to assemble, especially one handed 

**NB: *links are for visual example, NOT dimensional requirement for parts shopping list.


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## wtac

This is a riser pipe.

If you use a BH, get a SOC-FTP (threaded) type. Cut the riser pipe about 1-1/4" from the threads. The unthreaded half glue into the bulkhead half with the nut and wait about 2 mins for a good bond. Then screw into the bottom of the BH with a glob of silicone.


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## canadianeh

Does JJ downs sell coloured furniture PVC pipes?


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## wtac

Nope...not certified nor rated for plumbing purposes.


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## canadianeh

is there an adapter to attach Apex FMM-100 1” to Red Sea Part R42221. On the picture, currently the Red Sea part is attached to adapter 3/4” thread x 1” slip. 

Is there adapter with 3/4” male threaded x 1” female threaded?

Any good plumbers here? I can’t use any elbow or other fittings as I have no more space.


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## mmatt

If anyone has that it would be JJ downs. I'd call them tomorrow or asap before they possibly shut shop for two weeks.


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