# Waveline 10000 question



## badmedicine (Oct 27, 2012)

Hello!
I am restarting into the hobby and was looking at the DC Waveline pump. Easier on hydro and is in-sump. 
ppl are excited that it is speed controlled...why?? Other than the feed mode (I understand that) why would I want to slow down my pump? Is it so that we can have a night mode (slow water movement)??? 
I am new to this technology, but it would seem I want the most output from my pump- else just buy a smaller pump.

I know.... my noob is showing.


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

"...why would I want to slow down my pump?"

because the pump could produce more gallons per hour than your drain will be able to handle and the tank will be overflow.
I use the bypass and return excessive water from the pump to the sump. In this way, I am able to GPH of the pump and the Drain equal

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## advanced reef aquatics (Apr 20, 2009)

figure out what your overlow box/ drain can handle and size accordingly. if you post your setup im sure either myself or other members can help determine flow you need,
your right as you dont require more than you can drain.
on the flip side, were beta testing the variable speed pump for another company and its low pressure, ( same as you posted ) ive got it running full on a 7x7" corner overflow with 2.5" drain.
A higher pressure pump would be turned right down.


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## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

advanced reef aquatics said:


> were beta testing the variable speed pump for another company


Skimz VSC?


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## advanced reef aquatics (Apr 20, 2009)

The skimz i have betta testing as well, but it has the siccee pump, decent unit, well see what prices are. 
The pumps were testing is same as waveline, Waveline doesnt manufacture the pump, its re brand from the Mfr.
I dont see much need for a variable speed pump on a skimmer of all places,
aside from feed mode its redundant, even then i dont directly feed corals so my pumps are on 24/7
Seems even Reef Octopus is doing the variable speed pumps as of yesterday on Reefbuilders.


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## badmedicine (Oct 27, 2012)

I have a 180 bow front tank. It has two overflows which I think I will plumb 2 X 1inch drains. The pump will probably produce about 8000 litres (head + plumbing).

How do I figure the math? That is to say Is the pump the right size? 

My question about flow control... If I figure out the pump size I need, I won't be changing the speed right??? or do ppl slow down and speed up (making the speed adjustment a good thing).


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## advanced reef aquatics (Apr 20, 2009)

Even though the dc pumps are rated at 10,000 litres, you will have not a lot of flow if you split the flow into 2 overflows. This is due to lower pressure on these pumps.
Get your self a 1200 gph pressure rated pump such as a sedra. Reef octopus also has the water blaster models which are very good 
either pump above at roughly 1200gph, ( you can go 1600 gph pump as well ). you can split off the pump, and return water via 2 returns, this is all with the assumption that the sump is underneath the stand, as oppsed to basement set up.


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

It also depends where is your tank located and what level of the noise is acceptable for you.
the best and quiet to get to Eheims 1262 for each return line. They will be able to feed 2 spillts on each return.
If you can accept noise (basement) go with 
PanWorld 150PS External Water Pump (1100gph)

Do not do 1" drains on the 180G tank, go with 1.5"

Will try to say again - better get more powerful pump and return excessive water to the sump (or run phosban reactors using this flow), than under powered and run drains with half closed valves

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## advanced reef aquatics (Apr 20, 2009)

how about just sizing the tank with appropriate pump?
if 2 of the 1.0" drains will drop 1000 gph, which is pretty close,
why would i put a larger pump? wouldnt it be better to get a pump,
figure out head pressure and loss, voila! no valves needed and, less hydro and plumbing.
1.0" drains on a 180g is no issue, why do we need more than 1000 gph?


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

advanced reef aquatics said:


> how about just sizing the tank with appropriate pump?
> if 2 of the 1.0" drains will drop 1000 gph, which is pretty close,
> why would i put a larger pump? wouldnt it be better to get a pump,
> figure out head pressure and loss, voila! no valves needed and, less hydro and plumbing.
> 1.0" drains on a 180g is no issue, why do we need more than 1000 gph?


Can not argue with you Flavio, since you have more experience but I personally never seen drain - pump sized properly. The systems I seen run with more flow and bypass or with drain valve half closed. The pump reduces flow with the time as result of stuff accumulated inside and it will not be enough to support level in the tank without cleaning the pump constantly.

"voila!" is very good in theory when you have easy access to the cheap supply (not trying to offend you), but lets assume the guy will spend $$$ for the theoretically "figured out head pressure and loss" and the pump will not be enough to run full open drain , especially when he will have 1" drain on the 180G.

Will you replace the used pump, as result of your advice? Probably, you will, but not other retailers. He will sell it for half price, will get more powerful and will tank you for good advice

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## advanced reef aquatics (Apr 20, 2009)

Hey Sig, no argue at all, ive been humbled many times and dont mind as learning something new or alternate method we can all benefit from is what matters.
If you size the pump properly there should not be any issue of buildup inside the pipes, nor should pump gph decrease over time. i say this as we take apart at least a couple systems a month and even on 10yr old tanks youd be suprised how little buildup there is.
Most stores will not take the time or lack the knowledge in sizing the right pump for that application, I cant tell you how many times i hear that their dart pump wont pump from the basement. Pressure is key to any pump, as well as plumbing design and height which is crucial.
All my systems in store are plumbed according to drain/pump proper ratio. i dont like restricting my pumps and dont use a ball valve, yet we maximize flow for the aquarium, you are correct as a bypass is the way to go in a larger pump as this way we do no damage in back pressure to pump by restricting them.
You are correct as i have a store full of supplies, but spears plumbing isnt cheap.
believe me i hate when a glueing mistake is made as its time wasted and plumbing in the garbage, more so when a client is paying us to do it for them.
1.0" drains in a 24" height tank can move alot of water, the common mistake is people run too much flow through their systems, in theory if my skimmer moves 600 gpg ( 3x times tank volume through skimmer ) than anything beyond that in flow from sump to tank is irrelevant, the extra water is bypassed and not cleaned. 
We shouldnt rely on sump to tank gph for interior tank flow.
Id rather see 1.5" drains due to clogging mainly, not water movement,
Again these are my views and others can disagree, which is fine. We have more than one way to run our tanks and can still achieve success never the less.
Many times is comes down to Porsche/Ferrari or Ford Versus G.M. Trucks.
there is no arguement to be won.
Cheers


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

That's how easy it is and I run now (old photo) Phosbans on the bypass










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## advanced reef aquatics (Apr 20, 2009)

Is that an HD70 or 100?


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## advanced reef aquatics (Apr 20, 2009)

Ive attached pics of 2 recent systems,
The first one has 2 x 1.0" return lines, teed off a 1200 gph water blaster, no restricting of water blaster, perfect match of drains and return.
Second more basic system, you will notice no valve as well, running sedra 700, with water level in main display just under 1.0".


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

It is PanWorld 150PS External Water Pump (1100gph) and it was OK for the 120G tank, but could not keep up with 150G and and 1.5" drain.
now I have 200PS with 1700GPH and it pumps ~ 14' high. I really happy with these pumps, but I had to build wall in the basement - they are noisy

I also agree with you that people spending a lot money on unnecessary valves, which they will never use.
I am professional plumber and can tell you for sure, that you can build line for $10 and you can build the same purpose line for $100 and they will perform the same

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## advanced reef aquatics (Apr 20, 2009)

Most reliable are the panworld, a little noisy but small trade off.
The idea of drains is always have a larger drain than what your pumping in terms of water volume. ideally with 1.0" its not always possible..
We use spears most times for looks, but yes the costs can be reduced greatly.


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## badmedicine (Oct 27, 2012)

I like the two sumps that you attached. Everything is "in-sump" so that if there is a leak is will only leak back into the sump.
I HAD an external pump and put it in the basement. After 10 years it developed a leak at one connection of an OM 4 way. One drip every 20 seconds. 

This time around it I plan on in-sump and under the stand. The tank originally had "1" durso drains but I am not sure if I can increase to 1.5 inch- I get a sense that you guys feel I should go that way? hmmm.... interesting.

Do you think that the SEDRA or OCTOPUS is as efficient as the Waveline (as far as heat and efficiency)?


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## advanced reef aquatics (Apr 20, 2009)

The market in external pumps is night and day from 5yrs ago. I use to sell a good quantity of bluelines, which is an excellent quality external.
if we look at the cost of the pumps, hydro usage and associated pumbing, you can get a very good quality submersible for less than half the price.
Plus if the external fails, your scrambling to find the identical pump due to plumbing etc. An internal is a 5 minute switch.
you mentioned the leak factor as well.
Depending on tank size, id leave it at 1.0". If you read my other post youll see reasons why, Plus to drill over a 1.0" to 1.5" is risky at best. If its a new drill job, for sure ill go 1.5" drain also for reasons i mentioned.
Were comparing 3 very good pumps, the sedras are work horses, a little loud for some people, but zero returns on these, the Reef Octopus is quieter and more efficient, you have to gauge if its worth the few extra bucks.
The D.C. pumps weve been testing has been abused to the point of throwing gravel in the intake and running dry, less pressure on D.C. pumps though if it matters for your appllication, 
Cheers
Flavio


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