# New Tank!! Need help!!



## exoskeletal (Oct 12, 2009)

So I am about to set up my third tank. It is a small 20g. 

So far in the other two tanks I have:

30G - 5 Tiger barbs, 1 pleco, 2 red eyed puffers, 1 kuhli loach

75G- Green terror cichlids, convict cichlids, parrot cichlids.

SO I am wondering.. what should i put in the third 20g? I have puffers, cichlids, etc. What else could I put in there that is really cool.. something maybe you would like to put in a 20g ? I am new to fish keeping (only a few months) I am thinking of doing it freshwater.. although I'm open to brackish..

So tell me or show me something cool that I've never seen before so I can put it in my new tank!!

I'm in the St. Catharines area as well so keep in mind of my area!


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## Hitch (Apr 26, 2009)

what type of puffer do you have in there? Aside from the pea puffer, most other common kinds are brakish fish already.

Also, I would avoid putting cichlids with puffers, puffers are extremely aggressive and territorial. They will kill most other fish if not in a large enough tank....


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## exoskeletal (Oct 12, 2009)

Hitch said:


> what type of puffer do you have in there? Aside from the pea puffer, most other common kinds are brakish fish already.
> 
> - As I said, Red Eyed Puffers are in there and they are 100% freshwater.
> 
> Also, I would avoid putting cichlids with puffers, puffers are extremely aggressive and territorial. They will kill most other fish if not in a large enough tank....


- As I said, the cichlids are in a different tank than the puffer fish. The puffers are with 5 small tiger barbs, and they are fine with each other.

My purpose here is to gain ideas for cool, oddball, affordable looking fish that I have never heard of before that I can be putting into my new 20G.

Thanks


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## Hitch (Apr 26, 2009)

ah, my mistake. 

I'll let others answer the oddball suggestions....not really into oddballs myself.


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## Jackson (Jan 30, 2009)

I don't think there is any oddball that will last long in a 20gal. Maybe ONE Amazonian leaf fish. It is a hard fish to keep because they do not get off of live foods. It is very very very rare for that to happen.


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## exoskeletal (Oct 12, 2009)

I was looking into maybe some hatchetfish? They look really nice. 

Or some gar's ? I will have to do some research.

I found an African Pike that looks amaazing.. a little pricey though.


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## Hitch (Apr 26, 2009)

hatchets will be fine in a 20g.

gars and pikes wont fit in a 20


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## exoskeletal (Oct 12, 2009)

I was thinking of maybe a planted shrimp tank? Are those hard to maintain?

I may be upgrading this 20 to a 45 within the next two months, so keep in mind if these fish do outgrow this tank I have additional space available.

Any help? I want something unique and colorful!


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## Hack02 (Jul 2, 2008)

How about a breeding pair/trio of a dward cichlid. Maybe Rams or apistos. Or a group of small schooling fish say some of the smaller tetra's(neon, rummynose).

I have 12 marble hatchet fish in my 90g and I enjoy watchiing them. They are amost always in the top 3rd of the tank, so getting a couple of these might allow you to have a fish or two that hang out very low in the water column. 
just some thoughts


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## Tearran (Oct 4, 2009)

**edit** bad advice sorry.


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## Jackson (Jan 30, 2009)

Tearran said:


> if you want a really cool oddball, Look into the smaller birchirs such as polyupterus palmas. They do grow to 7 inches so you may neeed a bigger tank, but they are an ambush predator and dont do to much swimming.
> 
> 1 birchir, and about feeder 6 guppies can create a colourful and interesting tank. The guppies should breed enough to provide the birchir with lots of live food.


Those guppy's would be gone before they could attempt to breed.

Bichirs need at least a 60gal even of they are the smaller types and by smaller I mean 10''-14''. Depending on what type or variant of Palmas you are talking here is a list of them and their max size

-Polypterus Palmas Palmas - 14"
-Polypterus Palmas Beuttikoferi - 13"
-Polypterus Palmas Polli - 14"-16"

So 7'' is way off. I do not recommend any bichirs.


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## Tearran (Oct 4, 2009)

nevermind..


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

Hatchet fish would be a good addition, maybe with some pygmy cories. Nice little mix. Instead of Hatchet fish, you could try some dwarf gourami's.


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## tom g (Jul 8, 2009)

*ghost knife*

i love the sleek look of my black ghost knife fish , but the 20 may be a little smalll for him


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## Jackson (Jan 30, 2009)

Bichirs are one fish you can count on reaching their max size if cared for properly and given the right amount of space ( that falls into cared for well LOL ). I have a Senegal in a 3' tall tank and it eats from the surface middle and bottom of the tank. I have a small 3'' Senegal that just took out a school of rummy nose tetras much faster than any guppy I was very surprised.


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## Tearran (Oct 4, 2009)

Jackson said:


> Bichirs are one fish you can count on reaching their max size if cared for properly and given the right amount of space ( that falls into cared for well LOL ).
> 
> We have a difference of opinion I guess, but you dont have to be rude about it.


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## exoskeletal (Oct 12, 2009)

Looks like I am thinking of getting a pair of 2" MOBA Frontosa for now. Love these fish... and I do have a 50gal that I will be setting up and will eventually move them over when needed. 

I know a small bit about Frontosa, but what are good tank mates for these guys? Cats? Sharks? 

Anything to know when keeping Frontosa?


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

From my knowledge, Frontosa enjoy the company of many others - like 8-10 of their own kind. A 50g tank is going to be a bit small for that (even a pair), since they get to about 14 inches. A 20g tank is absolutely inappropriate. 100g+ is likely what is needed.

Just my two cents.


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## exoskeletal (Oct 12, 2009)

Chris S said:


> From my knowledge, Frontosa enjoy the company of many others - like 8-10 of their own kind. A 50g tank is going to be a bit small for that (even a pair), since they get to about 14 inches. A 20g tank is absolutely inappropriate. 100g+ is likely what is needed.
> 
> Just my two cents.


Understood. These fish are still quite small, maybe 2". When it comes to them out growing the 50gal then I will upgrade their space.

So the Frontosa are semi-aggressive? But peaceful to their own species? Do they mix well with yellow labs? That'd be a nice colour code.


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## Jackson (Jan 30, 2009)

Tearran said:


> Jackson said:
> 
> 
> > Bichirs are one fish you can count on reaching their max size if cared for properly and given the right amount of space ( that falls into cared for well LOL ).
> ...


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## bluekrissyspikes (Apr 16, 2009)

the front will grow increadibly quickly. i'd just skip even putting them in a 20. they will only fit in there for a couple weeks. i would do a planted shrimp tank with the 20 or get some kuhlis and a school of small fish. i find the shrimp are very interesting to watch.


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## exoskeletal (Oct 12, 2009)

I am going to put the kigoma fronts directly into a 50gal with them being at 2".. they should have a lot of room for a while.. until eventually moving them into my 80gal, which won't be over populated...

Anyway, do you have a planted shrimp tank? FW? If so, what plants are good for beginners? I really like the look of java moss.. is it hard to keep? I have a generic light... not sure the specs.. maybe a good beginner low - tech plant to start with. What is the preferred substrate for plants?


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## Hitch (Apr 26, 2009)

many shrimp tanks have nothing put various species of moss. Given the right design and scaping with wood and rocks, it makes an impressive display.

If you are starting with shrimps, go with red cherry shrimp. They are easy to keep, proliferate fast and doesn't require too much work.

as for plants, like I said, any moss will do. They grow fine under a basic fluorescent light, but you get much better results with better lights like T5 etc.

just keep in mind that shrimps dont like heavy metals (copper etc), try to stay away from foods that contain even the smallest amount of copper. They will eat just about anything, but give them more of a vegie diet.

As for substrate, it really doesn't matter (dont think there is a substrate that you need to stay away from). Any generic sand/gravel will do. The best if to go with a black substrate as it brings out the much more vibrant colouration of the shrimp and the black contrasts with the red to give an interesting display.

As for temp, they will tolerate just about anything. They breed like crazy in my cooler water tanks (some as low as 70-72F) and they are breeding like crazy in like warm tanks also (84-86F).

Lastly, its best to keep it a shrimp only tank, as most other fish will eat the shrimp or the shrimplets (the only fish that I have seen that would not touch live shrimp are my plecos and some corys). Use either a sponge filter or a sponge inserted into the intake of other filter so that the shrimplets don't get sucked up in the filter.

This is all from my experience and what has worked for me.


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## bluekrissyspikes (Apr 16, 2009)

hitch pretty much said it all.
your lightbulb should tell you how many watts it is. 
a few other plants that do well in low light are bulbitus, all the different java ferns, anubias, crypts may do welll depending on the lighting, and some common aponagodens. i've had luck with all of these. the shrimp really enjoy the java moss, lace java ferns and anubias.
i second the dark subterate. it makes a big difference. then you just have to put something over the filter intake to keep from losing the babies and have a small gravel vac with a peice of mesh covering the end to save babies.


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## exoskeletal (Oct 12, 2009)

Good idea. I was thinking of black gravel for the plants / shrimp anyway. I think it'd look nice.

I have no clue about maintaining plants, so I will do some research.

As far as Frontosa go.. whats the ideal decor for these guys? Rocks? Fake plants? Live plants? Open swimming room?


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## KhuliLoachFan (Mar 8, 2008)

I recommend you give livebearers a try. A 20g full of platies, making babies, is a wonderful thing, and it is also a source of new (free) fishies. Wow. Fun and a half.

Oh and even though you think it's fine... Eventually your red-eye puffers will try to kill their tank-mates. After you've been in the hobby longer, this thought will bother you more than it does now. 



W


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## AquaNeko (Jul 26, 2009)

Hitch said:


> many shrimp tanks have nothing put various species of moss. Given the right design and scaping with wood and rocks, it makes an impressive display.
> 
> If you are starting with shrimps, go with red cherry shrimp. They are easy to keep, proliferate fast and doesn't require too much work.
> 
> ...


Would any otocinclus catfish inhale any shrimplet/eggs? They seem to be a 'get along fine' with most community tank mates fish without being bothered or picked on.


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## bluekrissyspikes (Apr 16, 2009)

all fish eat shrimplettes. they are tiny, about a mm long and make perfect bite sized snacks.


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## Hitch (Apr 26, 2009)

yes, given the chance, anyone would eat a shrimplet....think about it....bite size pieces of crustacean goodness.

In comparison though....you would lose the least amount of shrimplets with plecos and suckmouths. I have RCSs in my heavily populated ancistrus tank (with couple of species of ancistrus), my Hypancistrus tank as well as my barbatus tank....in all three the shrimps are def breeding faster then the fish can get to them. I have never seen a hunt myself....since its a pain trying to spot shrimplets on sand.


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## exoskeletal (Oct 12, 2009)

KhuliLoachFan said:


> I recommend you give livebearers a try. A 20g full of platies, making babies, is a wonderful thing, and it is also a source of new (free) fishies. Wow. Fun and a half.
> 
> Oh and even though you think it's fine... Eventually your red-eye puffers will try to kill their tank-mates. After you've been in the hobby longer, this thought will bother you more than it does now.
> 
> W


Platies? I'm not sure I understand the slang..

Hold on.. that thought bothers me.. I read somewhere on the net that tiger barbs go well with red-eyed puffers? They are quick.. in a school of 5.. and don't have any long fins. At the LFS they had 19 red eyed puffers in a single tank and the clerk said they were fine..

I don't want any of my fish in a dangerous environment...


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## Jackson (Jan 30, 2009)

exoskeletal said:


> Platies? I'm not sure I understand the slang..
> 
> Hold on.. that thought bothers me.. I read somewhere on the net that tiger barbs go well with red-eyed puffers? They are quick.. in a school of 5.. and don't have any long fins. At the LFS they had 19 red eyed puffers in a single tank and the clerk said they were fine..
> 
> I don't want any of my fish in a dangerous environment...


There are only 1 or 2 types of puffer than can live in groups and you don't have them. Red eyes will become very aggressive and will try to kill each other and other fish. They can be kept with tiger bars but don't be surprised if they go missing the barbs that is.

The reason the LFS had 19 in one tank is because they don't care about the needs of the fish they just want to house them in what they have and sell them fast. Don't trust what the clerk tells you. Most of the time they just know how to bag the fish and hand them over to the buyer. You should gather your own info first before you set out to buy any fish.


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## Hitch (Apr 26, 2009)

exoskeletal said:


> Platies? I'm not sure I understand the slang..
> 
> Hold on.. that thought bothers me.. I read somewhere on the net that tiger barbs go well with red-eyed puffers? They are quick.. in a school of 5.. and don't have any long fins. At the LFS they had 19 red eyed puffers in a single tank and the clerk said they were fine..
> 
> I don't want any of my fish in a dangerous environment...


platies.....its a type of fish. Similar to swordtails, molly and guppies....a livebearer.

aside from the more peaceful puffers (peacful in the sence of it is less aggressive then the rest), I dont think I have heard of any fish living safetly with puffers. Its like a ticking time bomb..But if you really want to keep other fish in there, make sure the tank is very heavily planted or filled with other decor to 1) allow the puffers to estabolish their own territory, 2) break their field of vision and 3) allow other fish or the weaker puffer to hide


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## exoskeletal (Oct 12, 2009)

Hitch said:


> platies.....its a type of fish. Similar to swordtails, molly and guppies....a livebearer.
> 
> aside from the more peaceful puffers (peacful in the sence of it is less aggressive then the rest), I dont think I have heard of any fish living safetly with puffers. Its like a ticking time bomb..But if you really want to keep other fish in there, make sure the tank is very heavily planted or filled with other decor to 1) allow the puffers to estabolish their own territory, 2) break their field of vision and 3) allow other fish or the weaker puffer to hide


There are loads of fake plants in the tank, a long with a ton of floating plants that are submerged about half way down the tank. No fish can see from one side to the other..

Should I remove the barbs and other red-eye ? The larger of the red eye chases the other one and rams him.. I haven't seen him do it for about a week now but that can't be good. Sucks.


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## Calmer (Mar 9, 2008)

exoskeletal said:


> Should I remove the barbs and other red-eye ? The larger of the red eye chases the other one and rams him.. I haven't seen him do it for about a week now but that can't be good. Sucks.


Does the Red-eye puffer ram the other puffer or is it a nudge from up close? The reason I ask is my male Dwarf puffer nudges the female to induce her to lay eggs. It's a type of courtship. He develops a keel or slight ridge along the bottom of his body. Quite fascinating actually. It may be the same for the Red-eye puffers.


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## KhuliLoachFan (Mar 8, 2008)

Platies are a species of fish. live-bearers. Means they have live young instead of laying eggs in your tank.

http://www.aboutfishonline.com/articles/platy.html

I have sunburst Platies (orange with black tails) and blue/silver ones.

Warren


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

Jackson said:


> There are only 1 or 2 types of puffer than can live in groups and you don't have them. Red eyes will become very aggressive and will try to kill each other and other fish. They can be kept with tiger bars but don't be surprised if they go missing the barbs that is.
> 
> The reason the LFS had 19 in one tank is because they don't care about the needs of the fish they just want to house them in what they have and sell them fast. Don't trust what the clerk tells you. Most of the time they just know how to bag the fish and hand them over to the buyer. You should gather your own info first before you set out to buy any fish.


That, and aggression is dispersed with large numbers.


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