# JPC okay with snails/plants? I cant recall.. :/



## Ciddian (Mar 15, 2006)

i've had a female guppy for who knows how long and for the past few weeks i have been watching one specific one. She had blown up to a crazy size and i was thinking maybe she was bound up and was getting backed up with fry. However, usually at this age of the fry i should have been able to see them. I could not.

So i was thinking paracites. Yesterday i was going to start feeding jungles medicated food but i have baby snails and adults in there and i couldnt recal if the stuff was safe for freshwater inverts?

It says not safe for saltwater inverts but doesnt say anything about FW. These snails are extreamly important to me. 
The poor guppie girl passed away just a few mins ago as i had been watching the tank for about an hour. I have a head cold.. it was the perfect thing to do at the time. X)

I decided to make a few slices to see what the bloating was from (No pineconing) and it seemed to be just liquid. I did see some fine strings.. but not moving.. and i am not 100% sure if they came from the fish.. or fibers from my shirt. lol. 

Some extreamly red strings and black ones.. and one white one near her anus area. 

I want to treat the whole guppie population since i did add new ones lately and i feel it should be done. 

So is JPC safe with inverts/plants? (sorry for the long question)


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## JMatt1983 (Dec 14, 2007)

sounds like maybe it wasn't parasites and maybe the the fish had sme other internal health issues, i don't know if guppies can expel gases from their digestive systems or not. 

were the strings attached the fish or laying on top of the fish?

yes it is safe for plants and snails, or "scavengers" as jungle likes to call them, just follow the directions exactly as written on the bottle and you should be cleared up in about a month.


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## Ciddian (Mar 15, 2006)

She was passing some wierd clear poop but seemed to be having a problem as nothing was comming out. She ended up dying from some internal bleeding i could see happening across her middle deep inside the body.

there was only one white string.. the water honestly looked like nothing.. it was clearish save for a few small super fine threads..

Some people on another thread said that it was dangerous.. So i am a bit at a loss. I'll prolly end up emailing them just to be sure. I cant recall if i have used it before with snails in the tanks. I have MTS everywhere and they are always doing well...

So i dunno? 

Thanks so much for your feedback!


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## JMatt1983 (Dec 14, 2007)

maybe she was constipated and ruptered her bladder or colon?

i wouldn't think it was dangerous to plants because its a food, its not like a liquid or powder med, so i would think its formulated so that the medication doesn't get released until it gets digested by the fish.

but if you're unsure at all, definately e-mail the company because they'll be able to give you the best answer.


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## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

JPC treats external parasites and what you are experiencing is an internal issue. I cannot find what the active ingredient(s) online but sounds to me that it's either an organophosphate or cholinesterase inhibitor will do a number on crustacea like external parasites as well as effecting snails and other mollusks. Too high of a does will mess up the plants and I'm thinking that if scaleless are harmed at full does, there must be a dye added, ie malachite green.

From what you are describing Cid, you have to use a different med for internal parasites and/or internal bacterial issue. I can't think of one right now as my brain is mush...I'll get back to you on that.

HTH


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## JMatt1983 (Dec 14, 2007)

wtac, i believe this is the product she was talking about, http://www.junglelabs.com/pages/details.asp?item=JF173 as she mentioned it was a *medicated food* and if this is the product she is using, its the right one


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## Ciddian (Mar 15, 2006)

Yea i am so sorry i wasnt clear... Its the food.

I am prolly gunna need to beg for an xtra hospital tank.. One of my cories has a white thinger in his tail... Its just... There are -so- many guppies in there and fry.. its really gunna suck trying to get them all out...


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## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

I'm still seeing double and things aren't clueing in as I read...AAAAH!!! I should go to bed for much needed sleep and hopefully I wake up in the new year, not tomorrow...LOL!

You are correct that it's the product to use JMatt.

I think gel like medicated food additive that contains praziquintal would be the better route as one can treat frozen food, or any other food on hand to ensure that they eat it. Not many fish take to the Jungle medicated food, IME.


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## Ciddian (Mar 15, 2006)

LOL thanks you guys


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## JMatt1983 (Dec 14, 2007)

wtac, i agree with you, sleep is much needed, been working 14 hour days getting ready for x-mas.

but can you really blame the fish for not wanting to eat medicated food, i remember my parents trying to give me medicine when i was a kid, they had to dg me out from under a table or from behind a couch. fish are the same way, some are very picky about they want to eat.

the best way to recoup sick fish IMO is an isolation tank that you can medicate the water.

when i got stuck with not having a Q tank for a fish with fin rot, i went out to my lfs and got one of those small plastic aquariums and an airstone, work great.


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## Ciddian (Mar 15, 2006)

Would it make sense to medicate a fish that is showing symptoms and then adding it back to the group or medicating everyone all at once? I kinda dont like meds if i dont really need them. But just today i have noticed some flashing...

So.. not sure on what to do.

Yea thanks mat! I am gunna go grab a 5 gallon bucket or tubberware or somthing.


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## JMatt1983 (Dec 14, 2007)

its probably best to medicate the individual, as much of a pain as it is to net them, than to medicate the tank, some medications can be harmful to healthy fish, just like humans, and cause undo stress on other fish

No problem, glad i can help, btw just call me Joel, JMatt is just a combination of 1st initial last name


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## JMatt1983 (Dec 14, 2007)

something else just came to mind, could your guppy have had dropsy? it causes bloating and raised scales.


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## Ciddian (Mar 15, 2006)

nope definatly not raised scales.. But lots of liquid... so.. maybe just not as severe? She had a very expanded boxed out body... but no pine cone effect.


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## JMatt1983 (Dec 14, 2007)

i just went to another of the sites i use, an found this, thought it sounded a little familiar lol

African Bloat:

Symptoms: The first sign of 'bloat' is loss of appetite which is then followed by swelling of the abdomen, labored breathing, listlessness, reclusiveness, possible red striations on the body, and stringy white feces. .

There seems to be no explainable rationale as to its cause of bloat. Once a fish becomes afflicted it is often fatal. A fish that is not eating must be treated immediately or it can quickly become incurable and die. Though It is not certain what this disease is, it is generally believed to be caused by a protozoal parasite complicated by bacterial infection. Bloat is a serious malady often associated with African cichlids especially those from Lake Malawi, thus the common name 'Malawi Bloat'. The Tropheus species from Lake Tanganyika are also very susceptible.

The most common cause of this disease is stress and the first sign if illness is not eating. Stress can be caused by such things as transport, netting, poor water quality, insufficient diet, over feeding, and a lack of hiding places. Other causes, that are easily remedied, are an improper diet and adding too much salt to the water. Prevention is of utmost importance, and It is possibly to cure a fish if treated right away.

Following are some techniques aquarists use:

Any new specimens you obtain can have bloat or will often soon develop it. When you first acquire them try to provide them with the same food that the dealer was feeding, and then wean them onto a good vegetable based diet; Spirulina flake and pellet. 
Some will soak the food in dissolved metronidazol and feed them that for the first few days when first obtained. Seachem makes a metronidazol that can be bound to food when used with their Focus product. 
A good vegetable based diet is important. 
A healthy group of fish will eat with gusto. But even though they can be very active feeders it is important to not overfeed them. Keep an eye on them, and if one is not eating with vigor some aquarists will then treat the tank with Clout. 
One author says that they will segregate an ailing fish the second they see signs of not eating, and then will do water changes every day for 5 days in the main aquarium. 
Metronidazol is considered the most reliable cure and some use Clout as another cure, but do not use them together.


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## Ciddian (Mar 15, 2006)

Hmmm yea i was slightly aware of bloat and wondered if it was somthing like it.

Basically all the same except she ate well and was still extreamly active. Colour was great too. The last day she got a red hemmorage looking line starting from her spine down towards her body. Thats when she just sat down on the bottom... ten or so minutes later she was gone. Noone else is showing signs so you very well could be right about that too.


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## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

Sounds like either a bacterial issue or secondary if the "stringy threads" are parasites. Unfortunately all my lab stuff are packed and in the new house. If you have any further issues w/the fish let me know and I'll prepare a makeshift lab space on the washer and dryer to investigate.


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## Ciddian (Mar 15, 2006)

Thanks wilson!  Everyone seems fine except for the one corie, who is acting pefect, eating well..


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