# Sump Layout



## CamH (Jan 5, 2014)

Good morning!

Had some graphite tape laying around so I thought I'd play with the layout of my 40 gallon sump. From Left to right

1) 2.5" intake section. Pipes/tubing will run near to the bottom and force the water back up
2) 1" drop to triple filter socks
3) skimmer section (Reef Octopus 150)
4) bubble trap
5)return pump 
6) 9 gallon refugium

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t460/Camh2112/IMG_0146_zpsa3197aad.jpg

Putting aside the pros/cons of filter socks, I could make the refugium bigger if I don't have the filter sock section. Opinions?


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## Pruss (Nov 25, 2014)

Thanks for posting this. 

I am just beginning to frame up my sump layout and this helps me visualize the process a little bit better. I think I'm going to use dry erase markers until I get a layout I like. Then I'll get out the tape.

-- Pat


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## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

I wouldn't put the drain pipe near the bottom unless you are going to perforate the tube with either holes or slots. Assuning that there is only one drain pipe, you will get more bubbling, gurgling and salt spray. 

At the height of the baffle, the drain pipe should be either cut at that level or begin the perforations.

If you decide to forgo the filter socks, you can make tha section 4" and silicone a strip of glass and drilling a bulkhead for the drain pipe will help to minimize salt spray and shift the inner baffles to increase the refugium volume.

What you have to do is determine the volume of "empty space" in the sump under the condition that the system is running with water (if you can visualize that). This will be how much water the sump will hold in the event of a power loss.

Compare that with an estimated "retention volume" of water from when the DT is full at a "non running state" and "running state":

(base area of the DT) x (height of the overflow slots)/231

Add 10% for a margin of safety/error.

The empty space in the sump in a running state should always be greater than the retention volume of the DT.

HTH


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## reefgeek (Dec 31, 2014)

1) Your 2.5" wide intake area is going to be hard to clean, I also agree that you don't want the drains terminating near the bottom, two inches below the water line is best otherwise the back pressure will slow the drains down. 
2) Your triple filter sock area looks like there will be a plate forcing the output under a baffle, another difficult place to clean. 
3) Have you measured to ensure that the water level in the sump area will meet or exceed the minimum required depth? 
4) Evaporation is going to quickly diminish the water level in the return area, you will need a reliable ATO to operate under those conditions. If you don't already have one, get one. Either that or increase the volume of the return area.

I'm not trying to sound overbearing so please forgive if that is how I come across. I know for myself I took the better of 4 months to come up with a sump design that worked. Couldn't be happier with the result.


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## paulie (Mar 25, 2013)

reefgeek said:


> 1) I know for myself I took the better of 4 months to come up with a sump design that worked. Couldn't be happier with the result.


What is your sump layout then? Perhaps you could tell us so we could be happy with any new sump design too!! Always nice to see what others have going on, and what if anything they would change.

Reef keeping always seems to reinvent its own wheel ever so often!


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## fesso clown (Nov 15, 2011)

JT made me the filter sock trey. Shoot him a PM and he will help you out.

I would skip the fuge. You're not gonna grow enough cheato in 10 gallons to make any difference in nutrient export. It will just be messy eventually and having it open with space makes room for reactors and it's easy to clean.

This is not my sump but I copied it and built mine from this image.


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## CamH (Jan 5, 2014)

wtac said:


> I wouldn't put the drain pipe near the bottom unless you are going to perforate the tube with either holes or slots. Assuning that there is only one drain pipe, you will get more bubbling, gurgling and salt spray.
> 
> At the height of the baffle, the drain pipe should be either cut at that level or begin the perforations.
> 
> ...


Some good info, thanks! I was going to fill the sump with just enough water to run the system and then turn the return pump off. If you then add more water to the sump, that will be how much water will be in the sump when the power goes off.


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## CamH (Jan 5, 2014)

reefgeek said:


> 1) Your 2.5" wide intake area is going to be hard to clean, I also agree that you don't want the drains terminating near the bottom, two inches below the water line is best otherwise the back pressure will slow the drains down.
> 2) Your triple filter sock area looks like there will be a plate forcing the output under a baffle, another difficult place to clean.
> 3) Have you measured to ensure that the water level in the sump area will meet or exceed the minimum required depth?
> 4) Evaporation is going to quickly diminish the water level in the return area, you will need a reliable ATO to operate under those conditions. If you don't already have one, get one. Either that or increase the volume of the return area.
> ...


I was going to use a turkey baster for those hard to reach areas .The baffles have been measured for required skimmer. Haven't bought one yet, but getting the Tunze 3155 ATO. I'll be using a separate container for the top up water. Thanks for the input. Not overbearing at all. I appreciate it. I'll be starting a build thread so and look forward to any input


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## CamH (Jan 5, 2014)

Pruss said:


> Thanks for posting this.
> 
> I am just beginning to frame up my sump layout and this helps me visualize the process a little bit better. I think I'm going to use dry erase markers until I get a layout I like. Then I'll get out the tape.
> 
> -- Pat


The good thing about the tape is you can just peel and move around without the mess.


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## CamH (Jan 5, 2014)

fesso clown said:


> JT made me the filter sock trey. Shoot him a PM and he will help you out.
> 
> I would skip the fuge. You're not gonna grow enough cheato in 10 gallons to make any difference in nutrient export. It will just be messy eventually and having it open with space makes room for reactors and it's easy to clean.


Interesting. I've spoken to Jon and he is going to make some items for me. Not sure when/if reactors getting added but could I use the open space to throw some more rock in if I forgo the fuge?


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

I used these socks and finally got rid of these. Difficult to clean properly without Water Pressure tools. It gets dirty and blocks fast. As result water just flowing over the top.
Now I just installed piece of the egg crate with small piece of the foam on the top. The foam is replaced every 3 days. you would not believe how much dirt is catches.

you can see it on the right in the sump - acrylic pieces which will hold egg crate with the foam

[URL=http://s258.photobucket.com/user/Sig_1959/media/DSC05055_zps8bd39856.jpg.html]

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## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

CamH said:


> Some good info, thanks! I was going to fill the sump with just enough water to run the system and then turn the return pump off. If you then add more water to the sump, that will be how much water will be in the sump when the power goes off.


I gave you the mathematical route so you build once and you're done .

The other route is to plumb it up, fill the DT until water starts to enter the overflow. The fill the sump 2" below the top and turn the pump on with fingers crossed that it doesn't start to "suck air". Unplug after the water level stabilizes in the sump and wait with crossed fingers that it doesn't overflow.

If it does get too close for comfort, adjust the water return (if you are using LocLine) so it is a but higher and/or drill the anti-siphon vent hole a bit bigger. Unplug and repeat the process until you get reproducible "safe" results. That will be the MAX level. If the pump doesn't draw air, you can lower the level to suit the skimmer operating depth if need be. *NOTE:* *you CANNOT raise the water level any further than what was just determined* if the skimmer needs a deeper water depth as the sump will overflow if you raise the operating water level in the sump.

If you the water level drops too low/draws air into the return pump, put an elbow on the pump intake at least 1" wider to not restrict flow and point it downwards. You may have to cut it so that the opening is about 1/2" from the bottom. Failing that, you are going to have to cut a few baffles down.

HTH


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