# 10G'z Nature Aquarium Build



## 10G

progress updates moved to a diff forum folks, link to other forum will be posted shortly, stay tuned yall


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## TorontoPlantMan

There is no tank?


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## pyrrolin

I was expecting to see a cube myself if that helps you decide


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## tom g

*light stand*

hi there looks great so far ...cant wait to see your selection .
can I make a suggestion to those stick em tabs I have used them and they are great for projects but have also have the tape unstick from stuff as well .what I have done when iuse them is get a small self taper scew and run it thru just to help in holding the tab to the wood and not coming unstuck from the wood .
just and idea .
cheers 
tom


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## coldmantis

Good that you used screws, I was going to say the stickies will peel off in no time since I use the same for network cables in my house.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4


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## pyrrolin

I like it, not a cube but not a long narrow tank either, perfect fit for that location. Getting quite interested in this build, btw, what was the price per pound on that dark rock? I couldn't quite see the price in the pics


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## TorontoPlantMan

Looks very nice, should look awesome once filled. Do you have any idea what kind of plants you want to put in there?


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## Ryan.Wilton

Hey,

Looks great, can't wait to see the finished product. Just wondering what store that was that you were at, I could use some more wood


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## Ryan.Wilton

Very jelly right now


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## coldmantis

I don't see you diffuser in your pic, is it inline/external because your drop checker is green. Also the java fern I wouldn't leave it planted too long java tends to die when planted and not tied to something

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4


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## TorontoPlantMan

10G said:


> DIY garden mat:


What are those bottles of fert's you're using? I've seen them in BA's before but can't remember the brand.


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## cichlid_mainiac

Your setup looks great!
In Fact checking out your pictures, I realized it never occurred to me to do a dry fit of the landscape before filling the aquarium with water.  I've never given much thought to the placement of ornaments, I've always just winged it I guess. 
Something I can try when I set up my next tank! 

Look forward to seeing more progress on this build!


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## pyrrolin

maybe consider a java fern or anubias to go between the rocks.

I like the hardscape

You might have gone a little nuts with that one type of plant though


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## solarz

That's some pretty wicked gear you have!

I like the one-plant look. Most iwagumi tanks stick with one kind of plant. That rock sure takes up a lot of space though. What are you planning to put in the tank?


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## TorontoPlantMan

10G said:


> I have a question if anyone can answer:
> 
> How high should I keep my light fixture from the water level surface? The aquarium is 6.5 gallons, about 11 inches height wise. I'm using a GE 26 watt 6500K CFL spiral bulb. I've been reading that watts per gallon does not mean anything but I'm getting 4WPG with this setup.
> 
> As it stands, the light fixture is about 5 inches from the water level surface. Should I raise the light? Lower? Any thoughts or suggestions is greatly appreciated. Thanks.


I've heard anywhere between 4-6 inches, depends on preference and plants you're growing. But on a side note...With such a great looking tank, good substrate, co2, high light, nice hardscape...you should challenge yourself to grow plants which are a bit harder to grow. The end result will be far more much appreciated by yourself and many others.  Still looks good though


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## solarz

10G said:


> I have a question if anyone can answer:
> 
> How high should I keep my light fixture from the water level surface? The aquarium is 6.5 gallons, about 11 inches height wise. I'm using a GE 26 watt 6500K CFL spiral bulb. I've been reading that watts per gallon does not mean anything but I'm getting 4WPG with this setup.
> 
> As it stands, the light fixture is about 5 inches from the water level surface. Should I raise the light? Lower? Any thoughts or suggestions is greatly appreciated. Thanks.


WPG doesn't work for a tank this size. 26W CFL is not that much light, but a few inches of height won't make much of a difference, IMO. So set it at whatever level looks best.

As for stocking, I'm thinking 1 amano shrimp and 30 chili rasboras. Perhaps some fire red or crystal shrimps?


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## Kimchi24

i say you should stock your tank with really small fish. i believe some of the rasboras come in extremely small.


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## coldmantis

Repens is not a low light plant, if you keep you light that high your repens will grow ugly, loose its bottom leaves and grow tall. I would keep your lights 2-3 inches above the top if not closer if you want your carpet to look like a carpet.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4


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## FlyingHellFish

Sup bro, nice build  Where the plants I gave you? In another tank?


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## pyrrolin

I would put the light as low as you can to give the look of even lighting, too low and the sides might be darker. My guess is a couple inches above


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## FlyingHellFish

You guys would be surprised with what you can do with low light.


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## Ryan.Wilton

Looks great! What ever happened to that Java Fern? and no lol I never gotta chance to go to AI, my Dad's 220G needs some more larger fish, so I may make a trip there today, any chance they accept debit (I hope)?

Just looked at their site, I guess they're more focused on smaller species designed for a planted tank  I need good sized tinfoils.


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## solarz

coldmantis said:


> Repens is not a low light plant, if you keep you light that high your repens will grow ugly, loose its bottom leaves and grow tall. I would keep your lights 2-3 inches above the top if not closer if you want your carpet to look like a carpet.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4


Agreed, maybe it's just the camera, but the plants don't look like they're getting much light in that pic.


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## cichlid_mainiac

10G said:


>


Hey guys novice question:
Could someone please explain the benefits and what exactly this filtration system is /does?? 
I've never seen a setup like this. 
I bought my first plants this week after reading a plant guide in the novice section.


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## pyrrolin

It is a standard canister filter that I don't think there is a pic of, the nice clear pipes you see are just the fancy intake and output that were used to replace the intake and output that came with the canister filter. I believe they are called lilly pipes, they are expensive, but as you can see, they look much better.

The other equipment you see is the co2 system, this is a way to add carbon to the tank which helps plants


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## solarz

cichlid_mainiac said:


> Hey guys novice question:
> Could someone please explain the benefits and what exactly this filtration system is /does??
> I've never seen a setup like this.
> I bought my first plants this week after reading a plant guide in the novice section.


It looks to be an eheim canister filter with a heater, if I'm not mistaken.


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## cichlid_mainiac

I've never used canister filtration, but then again I've never felt the need to see in from all sides so hang on filters have always been acceptable. 
But I also didn't know you could buy canister filters with heaters built in, that sure would be nice  I've never been a fan of submersibles because they get in the way and take away from the esthetics of everything. 
If you don't mind me asking what's a canister/heater combo like that worth? And whats it rated to filter in aquarium size? I know that canister filters are substantially more $ then hang ons but with a heater built in it must be even more so.


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## pyrrolin

The video looks like a seachem commercial with the bottles behind the tank


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## pyrrolin

I hope that wood and java fern goes into this tank.


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## cichlid_mainiac

10G said:


> The canister filter and heater were separate purchases. The Eheim 2211 was about $90 and the hydor heater was $70. The 2211 is rated for up to 40 gallons.


Thanks for sharing the cost of your equipment, I'm surprised at the price l expected it to be more.

Definitely looking forward to seeing where the ferns and drift wood will end up.


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## mistersprinkles

What is the green fluid in the bulby thingy near the top left of the photo?


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## FlyingHellFish

Nicely done, I like that scape. It's simple yet eye catching. I keep my bottles out too, it hides the desk lamps clamps. They look like Hair products don't you think? 

Seachem hasn't sent anything yet, or it hasn't arrived. They ask for my address and I gave it to them, I really could use more excel.

Keep up the good work.

Edit: The video is wicked good, what are you using to shoot it with? Man, I should of done a shoot of my tank.


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## pyrrolin

The green bulb is called a drop checker, its reads the level of co2 in the tank by it's colour, green is good from what I've read


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## Ryan.Wilton

Got any updated pics? I'd love to see how it's coming along.

Oh and did you change the lighting yet?


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## coldmantis

10G said:


> forgot to add, i've moved the repens back and somewhat cleared the front to make room for the hc


Hc Cuba with LEDs? This I got to see.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4


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## Kimchi24

Nah, he is an old fashioned guy like i am. Thinks LEDs and plants dont work


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## coldmantis

10G said:


> Please aware me coldmantis, should i be worried about something?


I personally never seen a nice perfect hc Cuba carpet with LEDs, but since your using Ada LEDs which cost an arm and a leg(I'm jelly BTW) it might work? All joking aside LEDs will probably grow hc Cuba fine if your tank is like 6" tall any taller than that idk. Keep us updated if your lights is not good enough in a months time the Cuba will turn yellow/brown and will get a lot of algae on it. My other advise is that I see your drop checker is right next/top of your diffuser. You never want to do that, I see that its almost yellow which is good but try to move it on all the corners for a day and see if it's still yellow, but before you do that take the drop checker out and leave it out until it turns completely blue first.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4


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## pyrrolin

I can see the logic of not having the drop checker too close to the diffuser.

Tank is looking good, I hope the new plants work out with the lights. LED save so much electricity, but the good ones cost so much to start out.


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## coldmantis

pyrrolin said:


> I can see the logic of not having the drop checker too close to the diffuser.
> 
> Tank is looking good, I hope the new plants work out with the lights. LED save so much electricity, but the good ones cost so much to start out.


Ya you think so? I get asked that a lot by many people. If you actually do the calculation you will be very surprised on how much you really save vs. what you can grow with it.

Here is a modified copy and paste from a comment I made long ago.

I'm using this site to calculate the cost the light fixture
http://www.ontarioenergyboard.ca/OEB...ill+Calculator

Now I will be using the cost for me during offpeak times since that is when my lights come on and I will be using Summer rates since they are at a higher cost. So the true cost to me and you will be actually lower since rates changes in the winter time.

lights on at 7pm off at 2am (off Peak)
Summer rate at 0.067 Kilowatts an Hour
Kilowatts per hour is equivalent to running 1000 watts an hour

Now I don't know which model of the ADA fixture 10G is using so I will just assume it's the mid model

ADA AQUASKY 451 (for 45cm tanks) $275.00

the fixture uses 22w

vs

For the sake of argument an Ikea desk Lamp and a 23w CFL maybe $20 max

CFL uses 23w obviously

ADA Cost per year

Total watts 22w or 0.022KiloWatts
0.022x7hours = 0.154KW per day
0.154x30days = 4.62KW per month
so that's
$21.53 thats with tax, and BS delivery charge etc...
21.53x12months = $258.36

CFL Cost

Total watts 23w or 0.022KiloWatts
0.023x7hours = 0.161KW per day
0.161x30days = 4.83KW per month
so that's
$$21.55 thats with tax, and BS delivery charge etc...
21.55x12months = $258.60

WOOOOOOOT!!! You save .24 cents!! a year for using LEDS instead of CFL. Now Don't forget that the ADA also cost $275 not including taxes while a Desk Lamp and Bulb is probably around $20 with tax. I know you can grow HC cuba fine in a small tank with CFL I have done it, LEDS IDK.


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## solarz

coldmantis said:


> WOOOOOOOT!!! You save .24 cents!! a year for using LEDS instead of CFL. Now Don't forget that the ADA also cost $275 not including taxes while a Desk Lamp and Bulb is probably around $20 with tax. I know you can grow HC cuba fine in a small tank with CFL I have done it, LEDS IDK.


Well obviously, you're comparing a 22W LED with a 23W CFL.

I don't know how efficient the ADA LED is, but a 22W LED is certainly a lot more light than 23W CFL.

Your rate is also rather low, as I certainly don't turn on my lights at 7pm and turn it off at 2am.

Let's say the light gets turned on at 12pm and turned off at 12am. This is the current hydro rate:
http://www.ontario-hydro.com/index.php?page=current_rates

From 7pm to 12am, that's 5 hours of off-peak rate at 7.2 cents/kWh.
From 12am to 7pm, let's the the average of on and mid peak rates for 11.9 cents/kWh.

So for a 22W (= 0.022 kW) LED, the daily electricity cost is:

5 x 0.022 x 7.2 = 0.792 cents
7 x 0.022 x 11.9 = 1.8326 cents
0.792 + 1.8326 = 2.6246 cents per day

2.6246 x 365 = 957.979 cents per year, or 9.58$ per year.

So if the LED is 100% more efficient than T5HO, which would be equivalent to a 44W T5HO, you would save $9.58 per year.

Honestly, it still doesn't represent enough saving to justify the starting cost of the LED. However, we also need to factor in the life of the fixture and the cost of replacing T5HO bulbs. Things get a lot more complicated then.

I don't think LEDs are worth it at the moment. High quality LED fixtures are still very expensive while low-quality fixtures do not have anywhere near the PAR or durability advertised.


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## FlyingHellFish

I grew HC Cuba just fine with LEDs,









=======









Besides, it's ADA here. If Amano says to read a bed time story to our plants, I would do that too.


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## coldmantis

Well obviously, you're comparing a 22W LED with a 23W CFL.

I have to, to make it fair since I think he is using a 22w LED, I chose a 23w CFL because that's a decent alternative for his tank size

I don't know how efficient the ADA LED is, but a 22W LED is certainly a lot more light than 23W CFL.

I hope your right, since leds cost so much more it makes sense that it's more efficient

Your rate is also rather low, as I certainly don't turn on my lights at 7pm and turn it off at 2am.

Maybe I'm reading it wrong?, that's the calculated rate on my bill from the summer time

Let's say the light gets turned on at 12pm and turned off at 12am. This is the current hydro rate:
http://www.ontario-hydro.com/index.php?page=current_rates

From 7pm to 12am, that's 5 hours of off-peak rate at 7.2 cents/kWh.
From 12am to 7pm, let's the the average of on and mid peak rates for 11.9 cents/kWh.

So for a 22W (= 0.022 kW) LED, the daily electricity cost is:

5 x 0.022 x 7.2 = 0.792 cents
7 x 0.022 x 11.9 = 1.8326 cents
0.792 + 1.8326 = 2.6246 cents per day

2.6246 x 365 = 957.979 cents per year, or 9.58$ per year.

Ah If we only pay the actual cost of electicity and not the delivery charge, that would make the world a better place, also don't forget the billing system is charge per month so 2.6 cents plus like 20 something bucks for delivery charge and taxes, then times 12 it would be way more as a whole.

So if the LED is 100% more efficient than T5HO, which would be equivalent to a 44W T5HO, you would save $9.58 per year.

Honestly, it still doesn't represent enough saving to justify the starting cost of the LED. However, we also need to factor in the life of the fixture and the cost of replacing T5HO bulbs. Things get a lot more complicated then.

I don't think LEDs are worth it at the moment. High quality LED fixtures are still very expensive while low-quality fixtures do not have anywhere near the PAR or durability advertised.

Totally agree on both points above


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## pyrrolin

once the cost of quality LED come down, then more people might switch over.

The only real comparison would be to take a tank size, lets say 75 gallon standard and figure out what is required with t5ho to bring it to high light, which is about 2 48 inch t5ho. Then look at the cost of replacing the bulbs every 9 months for 5 years and then the price of hydro.

Then take a high quality LED, whatever is needed to give the same quality of light as the t5ho, no clue that this would be, factor in maintenance costs if any, no idea here either. And then add hydro cost. Also after 5 years.

Use an average light on time of lets say 10 hours, most seem to do 8 to 12 hours so picking the middle. And probably an average period of 2 pm to 12 pm. Average person is at work all day and most likely goes to bed by midnight, so they would want the lights on while they are home. You also need to count weekends as off peak and holidays as off peak.

You can't just compare watt to watt. I have two 90 gallon tanks, one has dual t5ho which is 108 watts total, the other has quad t8 which is 128 watts total. The dual t5ho appears to me to be the higher light even though it has lower watts. I am sure 4 CFL 25 watt bulbs would be even lower light than the quad t8.

I don't know enough about LED to even try to calculate this. Maybe someone with the knowledge, spare time and craziness can figure this out.


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## solarz

FlyingHellFish said:


> I grew HC Cuba just fine with LEDs,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Besides, it's ADA here. If Amano says to read a bed time story to our plants, I would do that too.


LOL, that's an awesome background. Where did you find that?


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## pyrrolin

probably Microsoft


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## IMCL85

wow those gear probably worth more then the tank it self, talk about pro gear. you should do a 125 gallon+ next time, 10g seem like too small for that type of gearing.


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## pyrrolin

the tank is missing something, I think you need a couple taller different plants added in.


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## charlie1

coldmantis said:


> Hc Cuba with LEDs? This I got to see.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4


Coldmantis, do you still think LED & HC is undoable?
To 10 G, I don`t know how I missed this build, hats off to you for your attention to detail & a well thought out build, Well done.
Regards


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## coldmantis

charlie1 said:


> Coldmantis, do you still think LED & HC is undoable?
> To 10 G, I don`t know how I missed this build, hats off to you for your attention to detail & a well thought out build, Well done.
> Regards


doable yes, it looking as good as T5HO/CFL lights nope.


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## charlie1

coldmantis said:


> doable yes, it looking as good as T5HO/CFL lights nope.


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## charlie1




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## coldmantis

I have to admit that looks pretty damn good. The video title is Iwagumi 60, so I'm assuming it's the ada 60f but the 60f's stock pic looks a lot longer then the tank in the video, if it is the 60f then it's only 7" high no wonder his cuba looks so good the tank is super shallow, I have a 10g long and it's the same dimensions, makes me want to detrim it and buy a finnex fixture lol.


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## baishui

Read all the pages on this post. Wonderful job! What kind of fish did you put in?


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## coldmantis

2 ADA LED you rich bro

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4


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## Kimchi24

coldmantis said:


> 2 ADA LED you rich bro
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4


LOL! Well, to be fair it is his display tank.


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## JNSN

Curious what kind of snails do you have that would not climb over the rim?


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## pyrrolin

probably ones that prefer to be in water, just couldn't resist, sorry


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## 10G

Journal has been moved to another forum folks, link will be posted soon. stay tuned


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