# I need some advice on my plants please



## monk21 (Dec 5, 2012)

* I will upload pics asap (although you can see some at my other thread with photos of my planted tank)

I have co2
I have very good lighting
I fertilise

and I still have 1) algae problems and 2) decaying plants. What is the problem?

I know, I know, maybe the snails are eating more than just dead plants or/and my rosy barbs are a bit hungry. But anything else I might be doing wrong?

Thanks


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

need a bit more detail such as what light, number of bulbs, type such as t8 t5no or t5ho. Height of the tank helps to. Source of co2. Substrate used and how much

But here are some possiblilities:

temp is too low, I have had plants melt when a heater stopped working and the temp went down a bit.

Dosing excel for co2 but dosing too much. Some plants don't do well with excel

Light on for too long or to little

It's all a matter of finding the right balance of everything


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## monk21 (Dec 5, 2012)

pyrrolin said:


> need a bit more detail such as what light, number of bulbs, type such as t8 t5no or t5ho. Height of the tank helps to. Source of co2. Substrate used and how much
> 
> But here are some possiblilities:
> 
> ...


Thanks for the reply. You can see all the details and pics here http://gtaaquaria.com/forum/showthread.php?p=347393#post347393


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## TorontoPlantMan (Aug 16, 2013)

Personally I think you're leaving the lights on for too long. 10 hours is quite a long time and definitely explains having an algae problem and melting plants. Try reducing your photo period to 6-8 hours and you should see a difference.


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## monk21 (Dec 5, 2012)

Thanks for the reply. I reduced now for 3 days already to 8 hours. Do u think I should go lower? Also how many hours should I leave co2 on?


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## TorontoPlantMan (Aug 16, 2013)

When I would run my lights for 10 hours I'd have problems like you see in the first picture. As soon as I adjusted my photoperiod everything was resolved and have no problems with algae or decaying plants now.


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## TorontoPlantMan (Aug 16, 2013)

monk21 said:


> Thanks for the reply. I reduced now for 3 days already to 8 hours. Do u think I should go lower? Also how many hours should I leave co2 on?


8 hours should be okay but still watch over it as you may need to reduce it even further. In terms of CO2 I couldn't help you there as I only have DIY and it just runs constantly 

I can say though...I have heard of guys turning it on an hour after the lights come on and then an hour before the lights go off. But again don't quote me on this. I'd ask Coldmantis he run's CO2 and has great looking planted tanks.


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## monk21 (Dec 5, 2012)

How old are the plants in the second pic? My plants look like that only first day I buy them! And it is weird that store plants without good light no co2 no fertilozers etc look better than mine


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## TorontoPlantMan (Aug 16, 2013)

monk21 said:


> How old are the plants in the second pic? My plants look like that only first day I buy them! And it is weird that store plants without good light no co2 no fertilozers etc look better than mine


All the plants at that time were around 6-8 months if I recall correctly, The key to making your plants look and grow healthy is meeting there specific needs, and also trimming them. When you trim it promotes new growth, and in store plants always look way different then when we get them home and they develop because in store plants are all grown emerged.


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## coldmantis (Apr 5, 2010)

Man o man you have lots of problems with your tank.

Things your doing wrong

1) your using 10k bulbs for plants, when I had 8k bulbs I had tons of problems
2)your tank is 75g and your doing 1 bubble per second? My 7.5 gallon is running at 2bps
3 ) hang on back filter gases co2 like crazy with your 1bps and your 2 hob filters its like not having come at all.
4) get a drop checker I bet you its always blue as long as your using a 4dhk solution to monitor the co2

Things your doing right

1)ratio between size (height) and your lights, the fact your only growing low light a plants, your using the right fixture, just change that 10k bulb and get another 65k-67k

45g, 24" tall, 156w T5HO, 7 hours ( stem plants grow 1" per night), Eco complete, 3-4bps co2, 50% water change once a month, PPS Pro dosing 5x a week(you don't need too, you don't have enough plants yet)










Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4


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## monk21 (Dec 5, 2012)

coldmantis said:


> Man o man you have lots of problems with your tank.
> 
> Things your doing wrong
> 
> ...


hello,

Thanks for the answer and allow me to respectfully answer just for the sake of argument and in order to have a conversation. I am NOT dismissing your advice or saying you are wrong. No way. I am just acting like the devil's advocate so I can learn.

So

1) You mean I need more k? I thought of even else. I am always reading about how I need 6,5k as this is the closest to natural sunlight. Also, I have had many tanks and this is the brightest I have ever had. It is NOT bright?

2) I am using a co2 tester and with this 1bps it shows that i have the correct amount of co2 in the tank. Can more people please tell me that they have more bpps and their plants are doing great?

3) again, i have a co2 tester and it shows I have the correct amount. I am confused.

4) this is the the tester I am talking about right? I have the fluval one and it is green to yellowish.

Thanks for the replies!


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## coldmantis (Apr 5, 2010)

monk21 said:


> hello,
> 
> Thanks for the answer and allow me to respectfully answer just for the sake of argument and in order to have a conversation. I am NOT dismissing your advice or saying you are wrong. No way. I am just acting like the devil's advocate so I can learn.
> 
> ...


1) in your thread your using a 67k and a 10k, plants like 55k-67k

2)drop checkers without using a 4dkh solution are not accurate at all. here I will prove it to you go here. hopefully you have a KH and PH test kit, test your water 1 hour before your co2 goes off.I bet you your nowhere close to the green or yellow.
3)4) see 2)


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## monk21 (Dec 5, 2012)

wait wait wait.

let's go back to bubbles. you are telling me that 1 bubble per second is little but you are linking me to a table that suggest that perfect ratio is between 11-25 b.p. MINUTE (= half bubble per second)


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## coldmantis (Apr 5, 2010)

monk21 said:


> wait wait wait.
> 
> let's go back to bubbles. you are telling me that 1 bubble per second is little but you are linking me to a table that suggest that perfect ratio is between 11-25 b.p. MINUTE (= half bubble per second)


What I linked you will confirm If your fluval drop checker is working or not. As in your fluval is showing you green or yellow, if you do the test it will most likely show you blue meaning your fluval is not showing you the correct amount of co2.

Let me give you an example, few years back when I was still new to planted tanks and co2 I bought a glass drop checker off eBay and it came with a drop checker solution all I had to do is to add Bromothymol Blue (api pH tester). I was doing like you 1bps on my 45g tall and my drop checker always showed lime green/yellow but my plants didn't look healthy, I always had staghorn algae and bba algae but I don't know why. I did my research and someone said the same thing I said to you 1bps on a 45g??? Ya right your doing something wrong, no way that's enough. I was told to use 4dkh solution but back than no one sells those things. So I had to make my own. Took me a couple of tries to get it exactly 4 degrees hardness and when I did, I used my solution instead of the one that came with my drop checker and what happens? It was always dark blue, I pumped up my co2 until it turned yellow and in a few weeks my plants exploded and all was nice and healthy and the algae went away.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4


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## monk21 (Dec 5, 2012)

great. And I believe you. But i have some questions.

1) you said 1bps is not enough and yet you linked me to a chart that says you need half that. How do you explain this? I am trying to learn

2) These solutions I you say I need in order to do the proper testing, I don't have and I have never seen in a store. Where can I find them? Can you help me with what they are exactly etc?

3) Now I am doing 3.5bps just for the sake of it and I will see how it looks starting tomorrow. Any chance I will harm the fish this way?

1) I have no Kh test. Is it so important?


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## coldmantis (Apr 5, 2010)

1) you said 1bps is not enough and yet you linked me to a chart that says you need half that. How do you explain this? I am trying to learn

I think your not understanding the chart, the chart is just a reference as in if you PH is 7.0 and your KH is 9 then your ppm co2 is 27 which is close enough to 30ppm(optimal)

2) These solutions I you say I need in order to do the proper testing, I don't have and I have never seen in a store. Where can I find them? Can you help me with what they are exactly etc?

Ya I know it's hard to find, I had to make my own because I can't find it, Pm me if you need some.

3) Now I am doing 3.5bps just for the sake of it and I will see how it looks starting tomorrow. Any chance I will harm the fish this way?

With your 2 hang on back filters 7bps is probably not enough unfortunately, for example my 7.5 cube has a hang on back mini canister filter which allows me to point the output flow anyway I want so I point it straight which only cause a very small ripple on the water surface which is what you want. In this tank I'm doing 2bps and I get lime green. On my 5.5gallon I'm running a hang on back and I'm doing 3bps and even with 3bps I can't get even get lime green because there is too much water agitation which gases out the co2

1) I have no Kh test. Is it so important?

no not important it's just for testing to compare your results with the chart I gave you. you can go buy one but you will probably use it only once or twice and never use it again.

I have to ask how are you diffusing your co2? I hope your not using a small ceramic diffuser for a tank your size. your going to need inline misting or external reactor. This is the reactor I used to use, I'm using inline misting because I'm too lazy to clean the reactor every few months. My Video review of Jaqno CO2 reactor


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## monk21 (Dec 5, 2012)

coldmantis said:


> 1) you said 1bps is not enough and yet you linked me to a chart that says you need half that. How do you explain this? I am trying to learn
> 
> I think your not understanding the chart, the chart is just a reference as in if you PH is 7.0 and your KH is 9 then your ppm co2 is 27 which is close enough to 30ppm(optimal)
> 
> ...


1) I think you do not understand what you said man. YOU said that 1bps (60bpm) is NOT enough. YOU linked me to a chart that says that your optimal is HALF a bubble per second (twice what you initially said was not enough). What don't I understand?

2) I am sorry but when I had the fluval 406 the water agitation was 10x more than what I have now. Now I have NOTHING. I am even considering a powerhead to start having some agitation.

3) yes I am using the fluval ceramic diffuser. I have no idea what these reactors etc are


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## coldmantis (Apr 5, 2010)

I think you do not understand what you said man. YOU said that 1bps (60bpm) is NOT enough. YOU linked me to a chart that says that your optimal is HALF a bubble per second (twice what you initially said was not enough). What don't I understand?

ah I see where your confused, 30ppm (parts per million, a measurement of the concentration of co2 in water) and bps (bubble per second) are too different things

2) I am sorry but when I had the fluval 406 the water agitation was 10x more than what I have now. Now I have NOTHING. I am even considering a powerhead to start having some agitation.

If you say you don't have any surface agitation than I believe you, I'm just saying that any big splashing from a hang on back or large ripples will cause the co2 to gas out.

3) yes I am using the fluval ceramic diffuser. I have no idea what these reactors etc are

Like I said not enough for a tank your size, you need something more effective like a reactor. Google co2 reactor and research it on google.


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## monk21 (Dec 5, 2012)

coldmantis said:


> I think you do not understand what you said man. YOU said that 1bps (60bpm) is NOT enough. YOU linked me to a chart that says that your optimal is HALF a bubble per second (twice what you initially said was not enough). What don't I understand?
> 
> ah I see where your confused, 30ppm (parts per million, a measurement of the concentration of co2 in water) and bps (bubble per second) are too different things
> 
> ...


1) FREAK! I cannot even read right! Thanks for clearing that up. Yeah, I know they are different but I kept reading bpm in the chart for some reason.
2) Yes I know that agitation and co2 don't go together but I do not have much (if any) and since the diffuser is so thin it goes all over before it even reaches the surface.
3) I googled that but since I have no experience with that I found it difficult to follow. What is the difference? why wouldn't a diffuser work properly? Do you recommend a DIY reactor? An easy and cheap one? which one?


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## coldmantis (Apr 5, 2010)

With a regular diffuser whatever bubbles hit the surface gets wasted while a reactor traps the bubbles in a confined area and its absorbed back in the water(100% diffusal) so that your plants can eventually use it

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4


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## monk21 (Dec 5, 2012)

Ok, where do you suggest me to read in order to make my own diy reactor tomorrow?


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## coldmantis (Apr 5, 2010)

search the diy forums here, I personally didn't diy because I dont' have a enclosed stand and I don't want something ugly standing out, I have 2 of the jaqnos reactors in the video I linked you, I'm not using. PM me if you want it.


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

What I have done in the past is just have the bubbles release under the intake of a power head or any kind of pump and it breaks it up really well. It may not be the best method, but its cheap and easy.

I just had a thought that sounds good, maybe others can verify if it is a good idea or not. Have the bubbles go up into some kind of box of filter floss, while the bubbles go through it, it should dissolve quite well. The theory sounds good to me at least. This wouldn't require another plugged in device like a power head would.


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## tom g (Jul 8, 2009)

*diy*

look up cerges reactor .........................


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## monk21 (Dec 5, 2012)

After finding out that for a reactor I need a canister filter i will leave the co2 out of the equation for now. I have 3+ bubbles per second since yesterday so we will see if it makes a difference. Let's go to lighting now.

I have the coralife dual bulb fixture T5 HO with 2 white bulbs. One is 10.000k and the other 6.500k. Anything wrong there?


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

The 10000k bulb might cause extra algae so keep an eye on that, otherwise, if you like the look, it should be quite good.

Depending on the height of the tank, it would probably be med-high to high light. I assume it's not higher than 24 inches. If the tank is about 18 inches high, I would say its high light, if its 24 inches, id say med-high.

I use dual t5ho over one of my 90 gallons and it works for me, but I don't have any plants that really need high light in that tank. I probably could not do a carpet in that tank.

I find dual t5ho is a good base. On my 15 gallon, I have dual t5ho and due to the height, its definitely high light and the plants pearl like crazy


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## monk21 (Dec 5, 2012)

what is weird is that i haven't seen any pearling in this tank and it has been running in this condition for a month now.

In another tank I had a year ago I had pearling but I had 1) bad co2 2) awful light and 3) just normal sand as substrate


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

problem could be old bulbs, bulbs may give off light still but after about 6 to 9 months they start to lose the good part of the light and are less effective.

I also find the smaller leaved plants pearl more.


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## monk21 (Dec 5, 2012)

pyrrolin said:


> problem could be old bulbs, bulbs may give off light still but after about 6 to 9 months they start to lose the good part of the light and are less effective.
> 
> I also find the smaller leaved plants pearl more.


Bulbs are 3 weeks old


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

Are you actually using T5HO bulbs? It didn't say in your thread.

Assuming that you are, I don't think the 10k bulb is the problem. I've run with 6.7k and 10k bulbs for a year on my tank.

When you say algae, what kind of algae are you getting?

When you say your plants are decaying, which ones and in what way? You mentioned in the other thread that your barbs are eating the plants. Has that been resolved?

Another anomaly: pH 6.4. Are you using tap water or RO? Does the fluval stratum lower pH? If not, it might be a sign of high phosphates, which is itself a consequence of poor plant growth.


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## monk21 (Dec 5, 2012)

solarz said:


> Are you actually using T5HO bulbs? It didn't say in your thread.
> 
> Assuming that you are, I don't think the 10k bulb is the problem. I've run with 6.7k and 10k bulbs for a year on my tank.
> 
> ...


Yes they are t5ho bulbs. Mostly wide leaves are decaying like amazon sword and such. Starting from the sides like they are eaten. Sometimes I see a hole or two in the middle of the leaf. Barbs alwas try to nimble.

Algae is not a big problem yet but I see where it's heading. Right now just a bit of greenish brownish on the glass, plants and rocks


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

monk21 said:


> Yes they are t5ho bulbs. Mostly wide leaves are decaying like amazon sword and such. Starting from the sides like they are eaten. Sometimes I see a hole or two in the middle of the leaf. Barbs alwas try to nimble.
> 
> Algae is not a big problem yet but I see where it's heading. Right now just a bit of greenish brownish on the glass, plants and rocks


Okay, it's possible that your plants are decaying due to the barbs munching on them all the time.

What kind of algae are you getting? Green hair? Cyano? Green spot? Black Beard? Is it slimy? Hairy? Or just spots? Is it growing on all your plants or just the decaying leaves? Are you getting good plant growth?


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## monk21 (Dec 5, 2012)

I will post some pics when I get the chance so u see exactly


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## monk21 (Dec 5, 2012)

Here are the pics of the algae.


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## Reckon (Mar 6, 2013)

That looks like brown algae to me? Plants melting lower down. Either too much light or not enough CO2? Most likely the latter.


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

Looks like diatoms. Ottos will readily eat them. However, you still need to correct the root cause.

Since you're using pressurized CO2, you should stop using your HOB and keep surface agitation to a minimum.

You should also get plants that your barbs won't munch on.


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## monk21 (Dec 5, 2012)

solarz said:


> Looks like diatoms. Ottos will readily eat them. However, you still need to correct the root cause.
> 
> Since you're using pressurized CO2, you should stop using your HOB and keep surface agitation to a minimum.
> 
> You should also get plants that your barbs won't munch on.


the hobs really do not agitate the water at all. i have the water level veeery high. In any case I am looking to change them for a canister for other reasons.

Do you suggest Ottos? will they damage my plants or shrimps?


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

monk21 said:


> the hobs really do not agitate the water at all. i have the water level veeery high. In any case I am looking to change them for a canister for other reasons.
> 
> Do you suggest Ottos? will they damage my plants or shrimps?


I know what you are saying, I use HOB with my DIY CO2.

Water level falls, and unless you are diligent with top-offs, you will get splashes eventually. Since you're using pressurized CO2, that's like throwing money away.

However, I don't think it makes a huge difference. The main problem is that you don't have algae eaters. Algae eaters play a crucial role in keeping algae down and allowing plants to out-compete algae.

Ottos will not damage plants or shrimps. Other good options are amano shrimps, siamese algae eaters, and bristlenose plecos.

Finally, if your barbs are damaging your plants, you need to do something about that.


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## monk21 (Dec 5, 2012)

solarz said:


> I know what you are saying, I use HOB with my DIY CO2.
> 
> Water level falls, and unless you are diligent with top-offs, you will get splashes eventually. Since you're using pressurized CO2, that's like throwing money away.
> 
> ...


The only reason why I haven't said "barbs, you are out of here" is that no one told me or believes that rosy barbs eat plants. Keeping that in mind, who knows how many fish are out there that are "plant friendly" like barbs and eventually they start nimbling. If I keep avoiding fish like that I will end up with neon tetras alone.

Then I was considering discuses, angelfish, dwarf cichlids etc (with "or" in between). They might do the same.

As for algae eaters, apple snails and ghost shrimp do NOTHING?


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## monk21 (Dec 5, 2012)

here are some more pics with damaged leaves


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

monk21 said:


> The only reason why I haven't said "barbs, you are out of here" is that no one told me or believes that rosy barbs eat plants. Keeping that in mind, who knows how many fish are out there that are "plant friendly" like barbs and eventually they start nimbling. If I keep avoiding fish like that I will end up with neon tetras alone.
> 
> Then I was considering discuses, angelfish, dwarf cichlids etc (with "or" in between). They might do the same.
> 
> As for algae eaters, apple snails and ghost shrimp do NOTHING?


Dunno about apple snails, but ghost shrimps are not algae eaters.

As for the barbs, they might just be picking on specific plants. You can either replace them, or replace the plants.


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## monk21 (Dec 5, 2012)

Unfortunately I am buying just whatever plants I see, like and can afford. Of course later I might start picking them more seriously, ordering them online specifically etc etc but for now I don't have many choices.


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