# Are Chiclid's really more difficult to maintain than more common community fish ?



## HOWsMom

Are Chiclid's really more difficult to maintain than more common community fish ?

I'm just in the thinking planning stage, but came across one "cookie cutter" set-up that has piqued my interest as being a starting point.

BUT - I've never had chiclids, always steered away from them as I knew nothing about them.

The cookie-cutter set-up is 
4x Angelfish (but I think I'd only like 2)
4x Bolivian Ram
8x Lemon Tetra 
2x Otocinclus
6x Corydora 


I'm looking for stocking ideas, and would like to use a pair of angels as my "centerpiece" so to speak.

Tank is 75g.

It is going to be a while before I add ANY fish, so I'm not making any snap decisions at all.

Any input is appreciated. 

Thank you.


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## Mykuhl

The main thing they makes cichlids more difficult to keep than typical community fish is their aggressive and territorial tendencies. All cichlids will display some level of agression and claiming/defending of territory. Sometimes it is constant amd sometimes it is only for a time.

What can make these fish challenging is that this behaviour can be unpredictable. It can happen when new fish are added, when adding uncompatible species, with over stocking, with under stocking, when breeding, when defending fry, or even sometimes for no apparent reason...when things have been peaceful for a long time. This agression can get to the level of constant harassment of the other fish, damage to the other fish, or even killing them in extreme cases. That is the one thing I really dislike about keeping cichlids...that it can be stressful.


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## mistersprinkles

A really nice, predictable 75 Gallon with all cichlids could include


















Yellow labs and acei. Those two fish go spectacularly well together. Easy to feed, easy to take care of, babies can support the cost of upkeeping both the 75G and a smaller tank for raising fry.

I've had the Angelfish and Bolivian Ram tank. It's far less exciting to watch, the young are much harder to rear, and those fish can be finnicky eaters. Mbuna will eat anything. (not that you should feed them just anything)
If you do go with these fish (Mbuna), I suggest feeding exclusively Dainichi Veggie FX. You can use Northfin Veggie instead (It's locally available whereas Dainichi is mail-order) but I find it produces inferior growth rates to the Dainichi. Northfin is available at Menagerie and Finatics. You'll find these fish at Finatics. Mike had some very attractive juvie acei last time I was there. Yellow labs are always easy to track down.

Another option is yellow labs and demasoni, or a saulosi species tank. These are easy, beginner cichlid setups that are straightforward and easy to take care of.


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## HOWsMom

Those are both very nice looking fish 

The yellow one (Yellow Lab?) is quite stunning!

Are they rock / cave dwellers, or can they be kept in a planted tank ?


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## des

HOWsMom said:


> Are they rock / cave dwellers, or can they be kept in a planted tank ?


Mainly rock and sand. If you're thinking about African Malawi cichlids, I encourage you watch some videos for inspiration. I personally like biotope setup (mimic the fishes natural environment from the wild).

Here's a video that may inspire you: 






mistersprinkles said:


> Yellow labs and acei. Those two fish go spectacularly well together.


I agree with Pablo. Labidochromis caeruleus "yellow labs" and Pseudotropheus sp. Acei "yellow tail" are a great african cichlid starter fish. Both likely to be more docile than other mbunas. A 75G would make a great size home.


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## bob123

There are many South American and Central American cichlids that can be kept in a 75 gallon planted tank, most of the dwarf cichlids in particular. If you want larger south or central American cichlids without plants there are many of them available. If you are close to Finatics or Menagerie I would make a visit and see what these different cichlids look like and ask the staff for info as both these stores are very knowledgeable on cichlids. You can also see a large variety of cichlids at Finatics.


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## TBemba

HOWsMom said:


> Are Chiclid's really more difficult to maintain than more common community fish ?
> 
> I'm just in the thinking planning stage, but came across one "cookie cutter" set-up that has piqued my interest as being a starting point.
> 
> BUT - I've never had chiclids, always steered away from them as I knew nothing about them.
> 
> The cookie-cutter set-up is
> 4x Angelfish (but I think I'd only like 2)
> 4x Bolivian Ram
> 8x Lemon Tetra
> 2x Otocinclus
> 6x Corydora
> 
> I'm looking for stocking ideas, and would like to use a pair of angels as my "centerpiece" so to speak.
> 
> Tank is 75g.
> 
> It is going to be a while before I add ANY fish, so I'm not making any snap decisions at all.
> 
> Any input is appreciated.
> 
> Thank you.


A planted tank like you want can almost be achieved.

You have to be patient and it will take some time.

I would start off with the plants and the Angels and rams.

Get the angels small ( cheaper and less aggressive)

The angels will patrol the upper part of the tank.

The rams will pick out the lower area of the tank and protect an area, best to put in some rocks or heavy plants to create a visual barrier. I would suggest one male three females, this will limit the aggression of the male on multiple females, plus no male on male aggression.

You can then introduce the cories.

Ottos need an established planted tank .
You can add the tetras but if the angels are large they will be eaten.

Look at barbs, they are great schoolers and some look fantastic, they are aggressive and you need at least twelve. Bigger schools of tetras or barbs allow them to spread out aggression among themselves and allow more targets for the rams and angels to chase.

Cichlids, will freak you out on the amount of chasing and fighting.everything is cool unless you find a fish bobbing in a corner.

Good luck


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## HOWsMom

My daughter has her heart set on Angels now - specifically "white" ones.

Platinum, pearlskin I think was the term ?

Anyhow - that's really not a big concern, angels are easy enough to find.

What else goes well with angels ?

And with Angels, I can go planted, not just rocky and cavy, right ?


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## Jackson

A great SA cichlids that has many types that are great looking fish and not aggressive are Geophagus

I currently have 7 different groups and each one are different from behaviour to looks 


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## malajulinka

Angels will love a planted tank. And you can still get tetras, but look for one of the larger types - ones that won't fit in an adult angel's mouth!

I also recommend a Bristle-nosed pleco or two. They don't get too big and are super funny-looking and lots of fun to watch. I bet your daughter would love one!


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## malajulinka

Also, google "Amazon biotope aquarium". Angels are the centrepiece of most of these setups, and they'll give you a good idea about tank-mates, filtration, and scaping. 

Man, you're making me want to start a new tank. And I don't even LIKE angelfish. Sheesh. 

(True story, though: my dad once had an angel that lived for almost 10 years, alone in a 10-gallon tank. I know, I know, we had no idea what we were doing. The little bugger used to bang on the glass with his head when he wanted to be fed, which was cute and disturbing at the same time. When he died, he got buried under the willow in the backyard with the rest of our "real" pets, since he managed to last for so long.)


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## HOWsMom

Not LIKE Angelfish ?!?!


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## mistersprinkles

HOWsMom said:


> Not LIKE Angelfish ?!?!


A lot of people don't like angelfish.


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## HOWsMom

mistersprinkles said:


> A lot of people don't like angelfish.


Everybody has their preference. None is right, none is wrong.

Personally I like them.

I also loved my little albino red-tail shark ! Not sure if I'll be able to get another of those with this set-up though, it was kind of a bully fish. But funny to watch - and it left my gourami's alone, just chased anything small.


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## shotokan

HOWsMom said:


> Everybody has their preference. None is right, none is wrong.
> 
> Personally I like them.
> 
> I also loved my little albino red-tail shark ! Not sure if I'll be able to get another of those with this set-up though, it was kind of a bully fish. But funny to watch - and it left my gourami's alone, just chased anything small.


i would watch out for red tail sharks when they get big pretty aggresive...


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## shotokan

mistersprinkles said:


> A really nice, predictable 75 Gallon with all cichlids could include
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yellow labs and acei. Those two fish go spectacularly well together. Easy to feed, easy to take care of, babies can support the cost of upkeeping both the 75G and a smaller tank for raising fry.
> 
> I've had the Angelfish and Bolivian Ram tank. It's far less exciting to watch, the young are much harder to rear, and those fish can be finnicky eaters. Mbuna will eat anything. (not that you should feed them just anything)
> If you do go with these fish (Mbuna), I suggest feeding exclusively Dainichi Veggie FX. You can use Northfin Veggie instead (It's locally available whereas Dainichi is mail-order) but I find it produces inferior growth rates to the Dainichi. Northfin is available at Menagerie and Finatics. You'll find these fish at Finatics. Mike had some very attractive juvie acei last time I was there. Yellow labs are always easy to track down.
> 
> Another option is yellow labs and demasoni, or a saulosi species tank. These are easy, beginner cichlid setups that are straightforward and easy to take care of.


 i have albino yellow labs with acei tanzania intungi, get along great, this is my colony


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## HOWsMom

Where are these stores ? 
Menagerie ?
Finatics ?


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## Y2KGT

HOWsMom said:


> Where are these stores ?
> Menagerie ?
> Finatics ?


http://www.menageriepetshop.com/
http://finaticsaquarium.com/
--
Paul


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## HOWsMom

Okay - so right into Toronto.
Hence why I've never heard of them.


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## mistersprinkles

HOWsMom said:


> Okay - so right into Toronto.
> Hence why I've never heard of them.


Menagerie and Finatics are the two best aquarium stores in Toronto and Mississauga respectively.


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## shotokan

mistersprinkles said:


> Menagerie and Finatics are the two best aquarium stores in Toronto and Mississauga respectively.


mangerie, do they have bigger cichlids or only small ones what about fancy plecos, so better selection then finatics, you think

never been there before


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## HOWsMom

I wish we had decent fish stores closer to home (I'm in Oshawa).


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## mistersprinkles

HOWsMom said:


> I wish we had decent fish stores closer to home (I'm in Oshawa).


People from Oshawa frequently go to Menagerie and Finatics. I'm in Pickering. Only a 15 minute difference. 10 on the highway.



shotokan said:


> mangerie, do they have bigger cichlids or only small ones what about fancy plecos, so better selection then finatics, you think


Menagerie exclusively sells small fish. Nothing that would require more than a 55-75 gallon tank. They only sell smaller SA/CA and African riverine species of cichlids.

Finatics generally sells medium to large cichlids, but still has a wide selection of smaller cichlids.


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## HOWsMom

That's great for them - I don't drive in the city if I don't absolutely HAVE to.

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## aniroc

Do your homework and know what to look for in a fish. Sometimes, you will find good quality fish in a small store. I went to Lakeshore Aquarium yesterday first time. They had the most amazing pearlscale koi angelfish I ever seen in person: color, shape, finnage, gill plates, etc...
As you can tell....I love angelfish.


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## HOWsMom

I'm trying to do my research, as I hope all can see 

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## malajulinka

You should put it on your "to-visit" list next time you have to come to the city anyway (they're just off the Bloor exit from the DVP - but it is a bit of a tricky exit!). I live in the west end and I don't have a car, so it takes me about an hour to get there by streetcar. But I pretty much only buy livestock from Menagerie (and other members on this forum!) They give good advice, and sometimes I just make the trek out there for the inspiration.


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## HOWsMom

malajulinka said:


> You should put it on your "to-visit" list next time you have to come to the city anyway (they're just off the Bloor exit from the DVP - but it is a bit of a tricky exit!). I live in the west end and I don't have a car, so it takes me about an hour to get there by streetcar. But I pretty much only buy livestock from Menagerie (and other members on this forum!) They give good advice, and sometimes I just make the trek out there for the inspiration.


I can definitely do THAT !

Who knows - if the fish keeping bug bites me hard enough, it might be a "HAVE TO" go to the city trip 

But, that would be one very hard bite to do that !


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## mistersprinkles

HOWsMom said:


> I can definitely do THAT !
> 
> Who knows - if the fish keeping bug bites me hard enough, it might be a "HAVE TO" go to the city trip
> 
> But, that would be one very hard bite to do that !


Honestly, you have no choice. If you want to buy absolute trash quality fish with trash genetics that are going to grow out to look like trash, you can hit Big Al's and PJ's in Durham. Big Al's occasionally has some decent stuff but usually bottom of the barrel. If you want nice fish, you're going to have to go to places like Menagerie, Finatics, and Kim's Nature.


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## Car2n

I think PJ's in Pickering has a great fish dept. Very well kept and managed.


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## HOWsMom

mistersprinkles said:


> Honestly, you have no choice.


Pretty sure I do have a choice. Might not be the best choice, but it's still a choice


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## mistersprinkles

Car2n said:


> I think PJ's in Pickering has a great fish dept. Very well kept and managed.


Fish are all B grade there IMO. With the exception of some nice smokey angelfish on one visit, none of the fish I have seen there were of good quality. I saw them feeding once, and the denison barbs had all lost their color and were absolutely refusing food, yet there was no "NFS" sign up on the tank or anything. Totally irresponsible IMO.


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## HOWsMom

mistersprinkles said:


> Totally irresponsible IMO.


I fully agree with that.

I think we offended one of the fish-room employees today when we refused to purchase guppies, even after explaining that the tank was newly set up and currently cycling.

She was all huffy and told my daughter (a 9-yr old) that she didn't have to cycle the tank, just don't add any more than 3 guppies a week. Told her she didn't have to do anything more than that, as long as the tank had had water for 24 hours.

Thankfully, I've taught my daughter better.


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## mistersprinkles

HOWsMom said:


> Pretty sure I do have a choice. Might not be the best choice, but it's still a choice


Didn't mean to be offensive in my post when I said if you wanted good fish you had no choice. I was just trying to get across that there were much better quality fish available in the GTA than what the chain stores out here have.


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## HOWsMom

mistersprinkles said:


> Didn't mean to be offensive in my post when I said if you wanted good fish you had no choice. I was just trying to get across that there were much better quality fish available in the GTA than what the chain stores out here have.


No offense taken. You are obviously very passionate about this.
We all have those things that we take passionately and personally, and can be a little overbearing about without meaning to.

It's all good


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## mistersprinkles

HOWsMom said:


> I fully agree with that.
> 
> I think we offended one of the fish-room employees today when we refused to purchase guppies, even after explaining that the tank was newly set up and currently cycling.
> 
> She was all huffy and told my daughter (a 9-yr old) that she didn't have to cycle the tank, just don't add any more than 3 guppies a week. Told her she didn't have to do anything more than that, as long as the tank had had water for 24 hours.
> 
> Thankfully, I've taught my daughter better.


I've seen even worse advice given out at (especially chain store) aquarium shops than that.

I overheard one guy at a Big Al's tell some customers that they could put "Any south american fish with any other south american fish". Being me, I had to set him straight and tell the customers that it was not so.

I saw one kid at PJ's allow some guy to buy 50+ angelfish and 50+ clown loaches for his 46 gal bowfront tank because "That was what he wanted". Pathetic. It was their entire stock of angels and clowns. He just "wanted them all". He kept calling the clown loaches "Speedy gonzales". I wanted to smack both of them.


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## shotokan

Car2n said:


> I think PJ's in Pickering has a great fish dept. Very well kept and managed.


where is kims nature


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## mistersprinkles

10011 Ontario 48, Markham, ON L3P 3J3
(905) 201-6166


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