# Ich treatments safe for shirmp/plants?



## NewBKaeK (Jan 23, 2008)

I've just noticed a couple dots that look like Ich on my neon tetras.

I have a bottle of Rid-Ich+ that I have used successfully before I had shrimp. Now, on the bottle it says that it "may harm some invertebrates including "live rock" and may not be safe to use in aquariums containing these animals". 

I have 10 Red Cherry Srimp and 2 Ghost Shrimp right now. I wanted to know if anyone has had any experience using this product with shrimp in their tank, or if anyone knows of a treatment that is safe for live plants and the shrimp.

Thanks =]


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## Letigrama (Jul 6, 2008)

NewBKaeK said:


> I've just noticed a couple dots that look like Ich on my neon tetras.
> 
> I have a bottle of Rid-Ich+ that I have used successfully before I had shrimp. Now, on the bottle it says that it "may harm some invertebrates including "live rock" and may not be safe to use in aquariums containing these animals".
> 
> ...


Im not sure of the ich medicine . in the meantime, do a 30% water change ( or more) turn off your lights, raise your temperature and add 1 teaspoon for every 5 gallons of aquarium salt. And hurry up!. Neons are very delicate. good luck!
Lety


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## NewBKaeK (Jan 23, 2008)

I think I have read somewhere that salt will harm plants. Is this true?
If it is, how much damage should I expect to see in my plants?


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## Letigrama (Jul 6, 2008)

NewBKaeK said:


> I think I have read somewhere that salt will harm plants. Is this true?
> If it is, how much damage should I expect to see in my plants?


nah, I read the same, my tank is 100% planted. I am treating my fish right now with lots of salt. Nothing happened. It wont kill them, you just should not put salt constantly in it.
Lety


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## NewBKaeK (Jan 23, 2008)

Thanks a bunch Leti. 

I'll run out and grab some salt today.


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## blossom112 (Mar 19, 2008)

this method will cure the ick????


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## Katalyst (Jul 29, 2007)

Both salt and malachite green *WILL* harm plants as well as invertebrates.


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## NewBKaeK (Jan 23, 2008)

Katalyst said:


> Both salt and malachite green *WILL* harm plants as well as invertebrates.


How much harm will it do?


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Malachite green will kill plants after treatment, and most certainly, nothing will grow the same ever again.
Salt will harm your plants as they are sensitive to it, and using it in amounts to treat fish will result in the loss of many species and the stunting of many too. But salt is the lesser of the two evils.

Malachite green also contains copper as an active ingredient, as with many medications (most anti-bacterials contain copper, so watch out). Copper will kill your plants AND inverts. 

How planted is your tank? The best med for ick is raising the temp to 87F - 90F (depending on what your fish can tolerate) for a week or so. You could also treat with a plant safe ick med, or UV.


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## NewBKaeK (Jan 23, 2008)

My tank isn't planted very densely. I have some limnophila sessiflora, banana plants, corkscrew val, and an unknown stem plant (havent gotten around to ID'ing it yet)

I am more worried about the shrimp than the plants.

Wouldn't raising the temp without adding anything for treatment just make the Ich spread faster? Do you know of any shrimp+plant safe Ich meds?


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## Mr Fishies (Sep 21, 2007)

NewBKaeK said:


> My tank isn't planted very densely. I have some limnophila sessiflora, banana plants, corkscrew val, and an unknown stem plant (havent gotten around to ID'ing it yet)
> 
> I am more worried about the shrimp than the plants.
> 
> Wouldn't raising the temp without adding anything for treatment just make the Ich spread faster? Do you know of any shrimp+plant safe Ich meds?


No, raising the temp of your tank past 80F will short circuit the ich and it will not reproduce. I've seen it written that the ich can't reproduce at high temps, also that it may speed up the metabolism of the ich so much that it dies before it can reproduce - either way heat will prevent ich from spreading further. Some say 84F, some say ~88F-90F...I personally think 84F should be enough.

It will not however kill the ich already infecting your fish - you have to let your fish's immune system work on the existing infection - this just prevents spread and re-infection. Water changes and gravel vac will remove floating spores too which can only help.

When you ramp up the heat, you impact the ability to store and deliver oxygen, so make sure you have good circulation and consider adding an airstone during the treatment.

If you have access to a UV filter get it in there, it will toast the ich first time it passes through.

It's been 2 days since you first posted this - I hope you've started some sort of treatment by now?

Here is a good link with a lot of info on ich: http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/ich.shtml


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## Calmer (Mar 9, 2008)

Or if you can buy or have a spare small aquarium (~10 - 20 gal.) to setup to treat the fish only. Tank, heater, air pump and sponge filter is all you need. Maybe also an aquarium top. Then later keep the setup as a hospital/quarantine tank. First try what Mr Fishies said as the least amount of chemicals is best. ^^^


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## Katalyst (Jul 29, 2007)

NewBKaeK said:


> How much harm will it do?


It will kill your shrimp they need to be housed seperately.

Please note when raising temperatures it is recommended to raise the temperature slowly over a period of days (1-2 degree's per day) and not just turning the heater from 76-84 etc. etc.


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## Mr Fishies (Sep 21, 2007)

Katalyst said:


> Please note when raising temperatures it is recommended to raise the temperature slowly over a period of days (1-2 degree's per day) and not just turning the heater from 76-84 etc. etc.


Just out of curiosity, do you recommend that for the shrimp's sake or the fishes' sake?

I've seen opinions on both sides of this since getting the temp up faster helps stop the spread (since water temps can fluctuate by several degrees a day in nature it should not be an issue) vs. gradual increases (too big a change shocking the already ill fish).

I've never seen a definitive argument either way - then again, this hobby is rarely that black and white!


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## Katalyst (Jul 29, 2007)

Mr Fishies said:


> Just out of curiosity, do you recommend that for the shrimp's sake or the fishes' sake?
> 
> I've seen opinions on both sides of this since getting the temp up faster helps stop the spread (since water temps can fluctuate by several degrees a day in nature it should not be an issue)
> vs. gradual increases (too big a change shocking the already ill fish).
> ...


This is not my opinion talking, its experience. I've seen temperature fluctuations weaken/kill fish firsthand. When fish have parasites they are already in a weakened state and most of the time have or are on their way to a secondary infection. Some fish can tolerate high temperatures, others cannot. Slowly raising the temperature is the best way to acclimate a fish without inducing uneccessory stressors. Think of it in this term if you like...If you were very ill and your house was 72 degree's and all of a sudden it changed to 84 would you be comfortable?


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## Mr Fishies (Sep 21, 2007)

Katalyst said:


> Think of it in this term if you like...If you were very ill and your house was 72 degree's and all of a sudden it changed to 84 would you be comfortable?


I had the same thought since I received the same advice about not raising the tank more than 2-4 degrees a day (ie: 2 degrees 12 hours apart) when I had my last ich outbreak years ago. <if I were superstitious I'd knock on wood now...> Glad you pointed it out though, I neglected to mention it in my post.

I've just seen a few posts on various forums (including a post on this forum by a now "absent" but seemingly rather knowledgeable member) advise to crank it up ASAP.


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