# What on earth is wrong with my male GBR? Please help!



## Cyn1k (Apr 24, 2013)

Hi All,

I have a pair of long-fin GBRs in a 45g tall tank with a large female Angelfish, 6 Black Skirt Tetras, and 7 small Julii Cory Cats.

My male GBR has a white jelly-like substance on the tips of 2 rays on his dorsal fin. He has had it for more than 3 weeks. During that time we had run a 7 day course of Melafix and Pimafix (at prescribed dosage, active carbon was removed) and elevated the temperature to 82 (still 78-80). His behaviour hasn't been affected adversely in any way. Still swimming and eating as normal. No flashing or other signs of distress. The 'jelly' is not increasing or decreasing, or moving. No other species in the tank have been affected. As an aside (and very possibly unrelated) the female ram has what looks quite similar to ich, also for 3+ weeks, but it is 5 dots in the same spots (3 on tail, 2 on dorsal) that haven't moved or spread, caused her any distress, or exhibited normal ich-like behaviour.

Can anyone help me identify what this is on my male GBR (or what is on my female) and how to treat it?

I've tried to attach pics (only the male). Its my first time doing this, hope it woks.


Thanks!!

Tank: 45g Tall
Filter: Fluval 206
Temp: 78-80F
Substrate: regular coated gravel
Parameters: all within prescribed ranges
Water changes: 25% weekly


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## Cyn1k (Apr 24, 2013)

A helpful guy at BA's in Newmarket said it sounded like Lymphocystis and suggested I look it up. I have done and am about 95% sure that it is indeed Lymphocystis that my GBRs have, which is probably good news because it seems to rarely be fatal. Apparently there is no treatment but it should run its course and go away on its own.

For those like me who weren't familiar with Lymphocystis there is a pretty good page here --> http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/fa181


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## Jackson (Jan 30, 2009)

Cyn1k said:


> A helpful guy at BA's in Newmarket said it sounded like Lymphocystis and suggested I look it up. I have done and am about 95% sure that it is indeed Lymphocystis that my GBRs have, which is probably good news because it seems to rarely be fatal. Apparently there is no treatment but it should run its course and go away on its own.
> 
> For those like me who weren't familiar with Lymphocystis there is a pretty good page here --> http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/fa181


If that's the case there's something in your tank causing it.


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

I learn something new every day. This was new to me. 

I'm wondering which fish did you get last ? How long have you had it, or them ? Having read the article at the link, which is quite interesting, it appears that the catfish are not at risk, as this virus doesn't affect catfish, as well as a few other species. So that's some good news. But the other fish have been exposed and may be affected, particularly the angelfish.

I would think that chances are high that the last fish or fishes to enter your tank, or perhaps the water fish were in, brought this virus. It appears to be a problem for some fish farms, so perhaps that is where it originated. It's been on your fish long enough now that virus will have been shed into the water, so all the fish have been exposed, though only the female you mention appears to have any visible symptoms. Cichlids are among the more susceptible species.

I would certainly avoid getting any more fish until all signs of this have vanished, and if you have other tanks, don't allow anything from this tank to come in contact with any other tank. Not all species are susceptible to this virus, but many popular ones are among those who are vulnerable, such as cichlids. 

Hopefully it will run its course and you won't lose any fish. Mortality is said to be very low, thankfully. It is too bad there is so little you can do about it, other than maintain the very best conditions possible for all tank parameters. 

I'd make sure to disinfect any nets or other gear like siphon tubes that you may be using once you're sure it's cleared up, so you won't inadvertently add the virus back into the tank later on. Bleach solution will do for disinfection, and then you can rinse them in water with dechlorinator added. Or you could run them through a dishwasher, as temperatures over 120 will kill this virus too.


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## Jackson (Jan 30, 2009)

Catfish can get it's a very common issue with common plecos and many others. 
Other species of catfish can develop it as well.

Poor water quality, diet and harassment can bring this on. Been some time since I read about it but that's as much as I can remember.


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## Cyn1k (Apr 24, 2013)

From what I've researched catfish can't get it but it is apparently relatively common, especially among cichlids. My male and female GBR both have it. In both cases it is only the fins, nothing on gills and they are both swimming and eating fine so I suspect no internal instances, so shouldn't be fatal. Lymphocystis seems to have very species specific strains and none of my other fish are showing any symptoms so that seems to be accurate in my case (I hope so).

I actually suspect It came with my GBRs (in a dormant state) as they seem to be particularly susceptible to any and all virus, parasite, fungus, infection, etc being artificially bred so much with such little genetic diversity. The onset of the 'warts', which is essentially what the Lymphocystis virus is, began after my Rainbow Shark (now removed - and available to a good home) started a persistent campaign of aggression on my GBRs. He nipped fins relentlessly, though never really taking bites. The virus then began where the minor fin damage occurred. My research suggests that this virus is actually present and dormant in most tanks but activates with the right species in the right conditions. I seem to have had the right conditions.


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## Cyn1k (Apr 24, 2013)

Jackson said:


> Catfish can get it's a very common issue with common plecos and many others.
> Other species of catfish can develop it as well.
> 
> Poor water quality, diet and harassment can bring this on. Been some time since I read about it but that's as much as I can remember.


That tank has had perfect water quality since well before the GBRs were introduced and has continues to exhibit 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, and nitrates kept well within ideal parameters with weekly 25% WCs. (does have a higher pH than than GBRs are supposed to prefer though at 7.8).


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## Jackson (Jan 30, 2009)

Did you get them with these already on them? If not it's something in your tank causing this to develop.

Catfish can develop this. Keep searching there's tons of pics showing many types with these growths


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## Cyn1k (Apr 24, 2013)

It was not on them when I got them. It was not on any fish I've got (in fact no other fish has ever shown any signs of this). This is why I think it came with the GBRs in a dormant state. If not them, it must've been dormant on whichever fish introduced it.

In answer to a previous question, the Corys were introduced last. The GBRs next most recent, about 1 month before the Corys.


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## Jackson (Jan 30, 2009)

I believe your water is good. 
What you need to watch for is is theta are any fish harassing them. I'd also look into their diet and see if maybe adding more to it might help out as well.


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

Catfish do get a disease that produces somewhat similar looking growths, which I've seen referrred to as cauliflower disease. It has been said it's Lympho, but I think this is an error, due to the similarity of some growths.

The name cauliflower disease has been applied to lymphocystis, but as with other 'common 'names, it might refer to more than one illness. After researching as much as I could find online, there seems to be agreement that the iridoviruses that cause the various species specific strains of Lymphocystis do not affect catfish or cyprinids, certainly not any species that have been studied.

One article I read suggests euthanizing affected fish, which to me seems quite an extreme solution, since the disease is not often fatal. I suppose for a commercial producer it might be the most practical solution, but for a hobbyist who is prepared to wait, it's a very drastic way to go.

Another suggests isolating affected fish for several months in a hospital tank as soon as symptoms are seen, to help avoid spreading it to other fish. Might be too late for that in this case, though it might still be a good idea if a hospital tank is available or could be set up. Keeping parameters as close to ideal as possible helps ensure no other stress affects the fish while they heal. The virus may take hold on injured tissues, so the fin nipping may have been an exacerbating factor. It's the oldest known fish disease, found in 1914, according to the book excerpt, for which a link follows later.

There have been some experimental treatments done using Acriflavin. But the results so far have been very inconsistent. I'm not familiar with Acriflavin, though I'd heard of it, so I looked up some references. Seems it can kill every plant in a tank if dosed at the levels used to treat protozoan infections. It is said to be mild, and has been used in quarantine tanks as an antiseptic, but if it can kill plants, and you have plants, I should think it's something you'd only want to use in an unplanted hospital tank.

Btw, Cyn1k, there's a site I found in the UK with a list of fish diseases. It looked like it might be fairly new, as they have no pics of sick fish to illustrate the descriptions. I did not read the entire site, and do not know that all the info is entirely accurate, but the site owner has a request up for pictures of fish who have the diseases. Perhaps, if you want to, you could contact the owner and send your pic. Might help other hobbyists with sick fish. There are a few other sites, some with pics, some without, all with much the same information. The link to the UK site is here.

http://eekers.paper-tigers.org/fishnthings/just_diseases.html

The next link is to a scholarly discussion of Lymphocystis, though you have to scroll down almost to the bottom to find it. It's an excerpt from a book on fish disease and pathology. Not all the pages are there, cause they want you to buy the book, but the paragraphs on Lympho are all there to be read freely.

http://eekers.paper-tigers.org/fishnthings/just_diseases.html

Jay, if you've got research that shows that any of the iridoviruses that cause Lymphocystis affect catfish, I'd be interested in seeing it, if that's possible. All the info I could find appears to agree that Lympho' caused by iridoviruses does not affect any species of catfish or cyprinid.


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## Jackson (Jan 30, 2009)

No I don't have any research showing it's the same as to what you're referring to. 

What I've seen on catfish has been called Lymphocystis by many over the years if it's wrong I'm not sure but it's definitely closer to Lymphocystis than koi herpes or carp pox. Everything seems to match Lymphocystis.

I did not suggest that what's being called Lymphocystis in some catfish I've seen is the same virus that affects cichlids and so on. 
I don't think this virus will pass from let's say the GBR's to a Cory. I'm saying this because I've never seen another who's experiencing this say it's passed from one affected fish to a fish showing no signs of these growths even of the same type.

I guess until more research is done people will continue to refer to it as Lymphocystis or cauliflower disease regardless of what type of fish it's on other than cyprinidae. It probably is an error like you said to be calling it Lymphocystis but for now it is all there is.

I've had one fish only ever affected by this once and it's fairly recent. It's one of my old hypostomus sonae it's pushing at least 10 years. 
I added some younger Geo's they kept pestering it and not long after it had a nasty growth on it's side. 
I removed it from that rank and after a months it's completely gone. looked like a tumor yellowish and bumpy really gross looking. No meds were used just regular water changes, some vitachem added to it's diet and no little buggers to bother it.

Cyn1K~

I missed it some how that they were being harassed by the other fish/rainbow shark. Now you know why it developed the stress caused by the chasing and the nipped fins brought this on. 
You most likely have nothing more to worry about and just have to wait it out.


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## Cyn1k (Apr 24, 2013)

Helllo all, I've been away for a few days and have come back to an encyclopedia of information! Wow, thank you for the time and insight Fishfur and Jackson.

I've become very close to 100% confident that Lymphocycstis is the correct diagnosis. The female GBR, whose 'warts' had looked different to the male's, now looks pretty much the same. His has changed in that it no longer looks jelly-like (maybe I'm just seeing it a little differently in light of the diagnosis) but otherwise the same. Both still swimming and eating as normal. Nobody else has any sign of the virus (or any other for that matter). Water quality is still rock solid.

I may try to gently scrape the areas clean eventually, but am prepared to let it take its course for awhile as long as its not causing the GBRs or any others distress. Thank you so very much for all your research and advice Fishfur and Jackson. You've been a terrific resource. I hope that I will be able to assist you in some way or another in the future.

Cheers!


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## Cyn1k (Apr 24, 2013)

May be a coincidence but I've lowered the temperature a couple degrees and the lymphocystis seems to be lessening, particularly on the male GBR. I'll keep you posted as this (hopefully) develops.


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