# Effective fungus cure ?



## ppaskova (Apr 27, 2010)

Hi Guys

Last night I noticed that one of my ottos has a fungus on one of his sides. I used API Fungus cure (It happened that somebody gave it to me for free with his old tank) and it made all my water green (I did remove the carbon from my filters). I checked this morning and this otto still have fungus and rest of the fish looks fine as well as my assassin snails. But I no longer can locate my amano shrimps. The instruction said to wait 48 hrs and repeat the doze and after do 25% water change. It did not have any warnings regarding sensitive and shell fish. Is this effective or should I use any other medication or just remove the fish ?
Any advice is appreciated.

Thanks


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## RevoBuda (Sep 3, 2011)

Fungus Cure does a good job in my experience. I have also noticed that Furan 2 works really well with fungus, although it is commonly a bacterial med. most fungus steam from bacterial infections anyhow. I have never had issues with inverts using either, I have had to nuke my 150 g once with it and all my shrimp survived. Your amanos may just be hiding.

Good luck.


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## ppaskova (Apr 27, 2010)

RevoBuda said:


> Fungus Cure does a good job in my experience. I have also noticed that Furan 2 works really well with fungus, although it is commonly a bacterial med. most fungus steam from bacterial infections anyhow. I have never had issues with inverts using either, I have had to nuke my 150 g once with it and all my shrimp survived. Your amanos may just be hiding.
> 
> Good luck.


Thank you. Probably you are right. How long it will take untill I'll see them as well as it will cure the fungus ? I still can see it on my otto.


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## RevoBuda (Sep 3, 2011)

Follow the directions on the box. I believe 1 treatment is done over a period of multiple doses and water changes within 5 - 6 days. Sometimes you have to do it twice. Wait a few weeks to see if it resrufaces, if it does, try another med.


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## ppaskova (Apr 27, 2010)

RevoBuda said:


> Follow the directions on the box. I believe 1 treatment is done over a period of multiple doses and water changes within 5 - 6 days. Sometimes you have to do it twice. Wait a few weeks to see if it resrufaces, if it does, try another med.


Well it has been 4 days now and I used 2 dozes of treatment and I think fungus on that otto became worse and in addition I lost 1 female guppy.


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

Honestly, it sounds like you are having a lot of problems with your tank. Have you considered that you are maybe overstocked, or not maintaining the tank adequately?


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## ppaskova (Apr 27, 2010)

solarz said:


> Honestly, it sounds like you are having a lot of problems with your tank. Have you considered that you are maybe overstocked, or not maintaining the tank adequately?


Yes I do. But please elaborate on what you consider overstocked or not maintaining my tank properly?
- Maintenance
I Change water every week (30% of it). I use gravel cleaner to do that to clean the gravel as well. I clean both of my filters on the weekly bases. I change cartages in them (or clean them if it is a sponge) on the monthly bases.
-Overstocking
I have 30Gl planted tank with 2 filters AC30 and AC50. I have about 30 fish in it like razboras, rummy nose tetras neons and some guppies and platies. In addition I have few ottos and corries that makes it around 37-40 fishes in total. My biggest fish is platty which is 2.5" most of my fish is 1.5"-2".
I don't consider it big overstocking I use to keep successfully 20 fish in 10Gl tank for over two yeas together with shrimps before I converted it to shrimp only tank (I don't believe in keeping 10-15 neon type fish only in 30GL tank). Most of my problems with guppies or platies. I do not have any with tetras or rasboras. Usually if my fish get fungus I through it out as it cheaper for me to replace it than cure it. This time I got free medicine and decided to try to get more experience and save the fish. But I guess my old methods are more effective.


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

ppaskova said:


> Yes I do. But please elaborate on what you consider overstocked or not maintaining my tank properly?
> - Maintenance
> I Change water every week (30% of it). I use gravel cleaner to do that to clean the gravel as well. I clean both of my filters on the weekly bases. I change cartages in them (or clean them if it is a sponge) on the monthly bases.
> -Overstocking
> ...


What are your ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels? (Tested before, or a few days after scheduled water change.)

What test kit do you use to test your water?

How often do you add new fish?


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## RevoBuda (Sep 3, 2011)

There is such a thing as point of no return with fish illnesses, you should be getting photos to share so we can get a better idea of what's going on to help you. It's possible you need something like Furan 2. I know many people assume fungus when indead often there are raised scales or bacterial infections... 

I would strongly recommend getting a handle of your levels, treating appropriately and giving your tank a chance to stablize. If you do not get all the basics down, you will continuously run into issues with the health of your fish and once you think you're in the clear you'll keep having major issues arise.


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## ppaskova (Apr 27, 2010)

I usually test my water once a month. I use API or Tetra test strips.
I did not test my water before i put the medicine and now as well but a week before I had
- Ammonia - 0
- NO2 - 0
- NO3 - 40
- PH - 7
All other parameters pretty normal.
I usually add fish 1-2 times a months (the tank is 1 year old). It happened that those ottos ( I have 3) wore somewhat new. I added them 2-3 weeks before it happened. I got them from BA where they wore already for 2 months (left over stock).
PS. Please do not tell me not to buy from BA as manager of BA that I'm buying from is my long time friend and knows fish business as not many people on this forum. In addition every fish I bought from private sellers outside BA are all dead but the ones from BA lasting for me most of the time. The only thing that lasted for me from private sellers but not from BA are RCS, CRS and assassin snails.


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

ppaskova said:


> I usually test my water once a month. I use API or Tetra test strips.


Are you using test strips or the liquid tests? Test strips are notoriously unreliable.

In any case, a nitrate level of over 40ppm is detrimental to fish in the long term, especially to livebearers.

Here's another question: the fishes you have problem with, do they tend to be recent additions (within a few months)? The fishes that you find to be hardy, have they been in the aquarium for a long time?


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## ppaskova (Apr 27, 2010)

solarz said:


> Are you using test strips or the liquid tests? Test strips are notoriously unreliable.
> 
> In any case, a nitrate level of over 40ppm is detrimental to fish in the long term, especially to livebearers.
> 
> Here's another question: the fishes you have problem with, do they tend to be recent additions (within a few months)? The fishes that you find to be hardy, have they been in the aquarium for a long time?


Yes. I'm using test strips. 
both resent and old ones (6months). mostly lifebreaders
The ones I don't have problems with have been in the tank for long time, more than 7 months.


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## ppaskova (Apr 27, 2010)

Here is the picture


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

ppaskova said:


> Yes. I'm using test strips.
> both resent and old ones (6months). mostly lifebreaders
> The ones I don't have problems with have been in the tank for long time, more than 7 months.


Yes, that makes sense. Livebearers are more sensitive than tetras to high nitrates. The fish that you don't have problem with are those that have adapted to the high nitrate environment. This is what some call the "Old Tank Syndrome".

Here's what I think:

Your tank's high nitrate environment has weakened the immune system of your fish, especially the new comers.

Add to that the fact that you are constantly adding new fish, and thus potentially introducing new diseases to the tank, you end up with always having sick and dying fish.

My advice is to get your nitrates under control and stop adding new fish.


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## ppaskova (Apr 27, 2010)

OK Here is my latest test (just tested today):
Ammonia - 0
NO2 - 0
NO3 - 20-30
GH - 75-150
KH - 120
PH - 7
How to get No3 to 0 ? I always had my NO3 at least 20 even in my old tank where my life breeders wore fine and wore not dieing so rapidly.


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

ppaskova said:


> OK Here is my latest test (just tested today):
> Ammonia - 0
> NO2 - 0
> NO3 - 20-30
> ...


20ppm nitrate is acceptable, 40ppm is bad. Also, like I said, test strips are not very reliable. You should use a liquid test.

From the description of your tank, I very much doubt your nitrate is under 40ppm. In fact, I suspect it to be much higher than 40ppm.

What kind of light are you using? Do you have a picture of the tank?


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## ppaskova (Apr 27, 2010)

Here is the picture. Sorry water is green because of the API Fungus cure medication inside. I also uploaded some old pictures of my guppies of how they looked like before dieing (the guppy pictures 5-6 months old).
Lighting in my tank is 24" GLO-Life 20W T8 bulb that is on for 8 hrs a day since I have life plants. I'm planning to replace it with T5HO fixture with two 24W T5HO lights


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

A 20W T8 on a 30-gal tank is very low light. Based on the description of your tank, I am guessing that your nitrates are at least 40ppm, if not much higher.

I've kept 27 cardinal tetras, 3 adult guppies and a dozen fries in a 20-gallon tank with a 15W fluorescent. My nitrates were in the 40ppm range as well. I didn't lose any fish nor did I get any disease as I did not introduce any new fish to the tank during that period. This situation lasted about 2-3 months before I upgraded my light and my nitrates dropped to 20ppm.

My advice is, first get a liquid test kit. You can get just the API nitrate kit if you want. Follow the instructions to the letter.

Once you are sure of your nitrate levels, you can work on resolving the problem. Your troubles come from 2 sources: nitrate, and new fish. You need to tackle both issues in order to restore your tank health.

Be advised that this may be a long process. Fish that are already sick will not be magically cured this way. Since you usually toss out dead fish instead of medicating the tank, we can assume that your tank has all sorts of disease. What you need to do is provide a better environment for your fish so that their immune system becomes stronger, and thus keep the pathogens under control.


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## ppaskova (Apr 27, 2010)

Thank you for an advice. I know my situation about the light as my plants don't want to grow well in this tank. I already bought the Aqualife fixture and two T5HO 24W bulbs for it. Just did not have time to install it. I'll buy a liquid kit in few weeks during Boxing week sale as it will be much cheaper in BA. In the main time I'll ask my friend (who has liquid kit) to test water for me. Unfortunately I lost one more female platy today. But it was expected as since I got her 3 months ago she was always hiding and when I saw her lately she was deformed.
A few more questions: 
1. What medications do you suggest to treat my fish (please keep in mind that in this tank I also have few amano shrimps and assassin snails and because of it can not use most of the medications available in the stores) ? 
2. What should I do with the otto that has fungus as on the picture I posted (toast him or try medication one more time) ?

Thanks again for all your help


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

I would suggest you quarantine *ALL* your fish for 4 weeks and treat them in quarantine. This will allow you to use the full range of medications at no risk to your inverts. You will have to do frequent water changes in the quarantine tank to keep nitrate levels down.

The 4 week duration is to make sure that the pathogens in your main tank, without any fish to host, completely dies out. Otherwise, the moment you put your fish back, they might get infected again.

Note that quarantine and medication are both stressful to fish, so you run the risk of losing fish in this process. Tetras, especially, do not adapt well to sudden changes in the environment.

If you don't want to take this risk, I would suggest isolating the sick fish and treating them. Then stop getting any new fishes while you work to bring nitrates under control. This will not completely eliminate pathogens in your tank, so you run the risk of recurring outbreaks in the future, but you will have less problems than you do now.


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## RevoBuda (Sep 3, 2011)

I think solarz advice is all great. But depending on what is in your tank, please bear in mind that it may still be present in inverts. I would strongly recommend isolating the more sickly fish in a quarentine and still treating the whole tank as well. It is not unheard of for pathogens and parasites to survive beyond six weeks.

A lot of these pathogenes or parasites life cycle includes larval or egg stages that last 4 weeks.

Good luck.


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

RevoBuda said:


> I think solarz advice is all great. But depending on what is in your tank, please bear in mind that it may still be present in inverts. I would strongly recommend isolating the more sickly fish in a quarentine and still treating the whole tank as well. It is not unheard of for pathogens and parasites to survive beyond six weeks.
> 
> A lot of these pathogenes or parasites life cycle includes larval or egg stages that last 4 weeks.
> 
> Good luck.


Yes, the longer the quarantine, the better the chances of a complete recovery.

However, I think most diseases will not jump from shrimps to fish. The biggest difficulty is that most medications that treat parasites are also deadly to inverts, especially shrimps.


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## ppaskova (Apr 27, 2010)

solarz said:


> Yes, the longer the quarantine, the better the chances of a complete recovery.
> 
> However, I think most diseases will not jump from shrimps to fish. The biggest difficulty is that most medications that treat parasites are also deadly to inverts, especially shrimps.


Yes this is correct. I used special commercial parasites medications from my BA friend that are not available over to counter and they still damaged my shrimps and snails (but did not kill all of them). And the ones available over the counter he told me not to touch as they will kill my shrimps and snails.
Also guys you did not answer my second question. What to do with the fungus sick otto, continue treat the whole tank and wait few more days or toast him, do the water change and put the carbon in the filters to remove the medication ?


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## Y2KGT (Jul 20, 2009)

What do you mean "toast him"? You should keep treating your tank and doing lots of water changes because you have a lot of problems with your tank and most will be as a result of poor water quality due to too many fish in a relatively small tank.

The fungus is a secondary symptom of an injury which was probably caused by one of your other fish. Just like so many of the other posts you have on here about guppies having their fins and tails nipped at by one of your other fish.

--
Paul


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## ppaskova (Apr 27, 2010)

Y2KGT said:


> What do you mean "toast him"? You should keep treating your tank and doing lots of water changes because you have a lot of problems with your tank and most will be as a result of poor water quality due to too many fish in a relatively small tank.
> 
> The fungus is a secondary symptom of an injury which was probably caused by one of your other fish. Just like so many of the other posts you have on here about guppies having their fins and tails nipped at by one of your other fish.
> 
> ...


I'll question a lot your advice. And the reason behind it that did you ever think that sometimes problem not with the tank or overstocking it in Canadian standards (European standards are way much tougher than Canadian / American. Bigger tank you buy and less fish you put in it, you need to buy more tanks, good business for reach countries like US and Canada) but in the fish like guppies that has been in-breaded so much that does not have immune system at all. So now explain to me how is 5 guppy babies who live in the perfectly planted 10Gl tank with 18W light, plants growing like crazy, water parameters perfect, no NO2 or NO3 or Ammonia or so never survive to the adult age. And this is 3 years old established tank, where any other fish lives without any issues and at the moment hosting only around 30 RCS and CRS. If you will tell me again it overstocked with 30 shrimps and 5 baby fish I'll not believe you at all !!!!! So now tell me what problems this tank has and how should I nuke it to blow it away ???????????
Ironically we have same first name Paul


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## ppaskova (Apr 27, 2010)

Sorry for my harsh last reply but all that I learned so far is to replace light in my tank. I don't think I'm going to keep medicating my tank as API fungus cure just proved to me it is expensive waste of money and it also damaged my Amazon sword plant. It is much cheaper and easier for me to keep only tetras and razboras in my tank and forget about guppies than keep medicating it as for price of one medication I can easily get school of 8-10 neons or rummy nose tetras or razboras or guppies.


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## ppaskova (Apr 27, 2010)

Last update. The otto is dead. Medicine did not work !!!!


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## ppaskova (Apr 27, 2010)

OK, Just tested both of my tanks (10gl shrimp tank and 30Gl fish tank) with API liquid test kit, and there are the results (they are identical for both tanks):
Ammonia - 0.25 (second "yellow" spite on the top after the to white one indicating 0)
No2 - 0
No3 - 5 Ml/L (also second stripe from the top)
PH - 7.5-7.7 ( right between second bottom blue stripe and the last one on the bottom)

Solarz - Any advices ?


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

ppaskova said:


> OK, Just tested both of my tanks (10gl shrimp tank and 30Gl fish tank) with API liquid test kit, and there are the results (they are identical for both tanks):
> Ammonia - 0.25 (second "yellow" spite on the top after the to white one indicating 0)
> No2 - 0
> No3 - 5 Ml/L (also second stripe from the top)
> ...


Not sure how you're testing this, but:

1- if you see any hint of green in your ammonia test, you have ammonia. If you don't see any green and it's completely yellow, then it's 0. Honestly, I doubt that your tank has any ammonia.

2- Did you mean 5 ppm instead of 5 ml/L? That's possible for your shrimp tank but highly unlikely for your community tank. Unless you changed lights in the mean time?

Make sure that you read and followed the nitrate test instructions to the letter, specifically:

- shake bottle #2 for 30 seconds
- shake the test tube for 60 seconds
- wait 60 seconds before reading the result


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## ppaskova (Apr 27, 2010)

solarz said:


> Not sure how you're testing this, but:
> 
> 1- if you see any hint of green in your ammonia test, you have ammonia. If you don't see any green and it's completely yellow, then it's 0. Honestly, I doubt that your tank has any ammonia.
> 
> ...


1. Ammonia - Yes it was completely yellow (little dark but not greenish).
2. No3 - It was second line on the chart from the top. Possibly 5ppm.
And no I did not change the lights yet. And we did follow the instructions on the bottle and actually waited 5 min. 
My friend has that complete API test, But it is about 3 years old (I don't know if it is mater).
The only worry he expressed that my PH it's too high for guppies - 7.5-7.7 - I'm not sure if it is a problem ?
PS. In my shrimp tank I lost my last baby guppy. Very strangely, when it was my community tank I never had those issues but after I moved from Toronto to Thornhill (although I was on the border of Toronto and Thornhill, (not far from you, Dufferin / Steeles) I did not have those issues)


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

ppaskova said:


> 1. Ammonia - Yes it was completely yellow (little dark but not greenish).
> 2. No3 - It was second line on the chart from the top. Possibly 5ppm.
> And no I did not change the lights yet. And we did follow the instructions on the bottle and actually waited 5 min.
> My friend has that complete API test, But it is about 3 years old (I don't know if it is mater).
> ...


You're right, it's 5 min.

According to this, nitrate tests expire after 3 years:

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forum...iration-date-question-128388.html#post1096218

I'm guessing the test you used has expired. There's no way that your tank has 5ppm nitrates.


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## ppaskova (Apr 27, 2010)

solarz said:


> You're right, it's 5 min.
> 
> According to this, nitrate tests expire after 3 years:
> 
> ...


Well may be you are right may be not. He said he has them for about 3 years. He is gone for business trip. When he comes back from it by the weekend I ask him to give me readings from the bottle. Or in two -three weeks I'll buy my own on the boxing week sale 
But thank you very much for your help. I'll let you know as soon as I get the info from my friend or buy a new kit and retest


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## ppaskova (Apr 27, 2010)

Thank you everybody (and specially Solarz) for your help. I'll follow your advices of not adding new fish, replacing the light and retesting the water and report back as soon as I have any news.


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## ppaskova (Apr 27, 2010)

Here is latest update (and specialty for Solarz). I changed the light a few weeks ago in the tank to Aquatic Life fixture with two 24", 24W, 6400K T5HO fluorescent light bulbs (see attached picture). But for some reason my plants (and specialty amazon sword) not doing as well as with old light. They getting yellow as it is not enough iron for them (I put 8ml of flourish iron in the tank every week) And recently retested the water just before water change with my new API fluid test kit. Here are the results:
Ammonia - 0
NO2 - 0
NO3 - 0
PH - 7.4
In the past few weeks I did not add any new fish (beside my female guppy giving birth to few babies) but lost two, neon and male platty to parasites.
In contrast to those results I tested my shrimp tank and here are the results:
Ammonia - 0- 0.25ppm (somewhere in between but closer to 0)
NO2 - 0
NO3 - 0-5ppm (somewhere in between, probably 2ppm). 
PH- 7.8
In my shrimp tank I just lost two RCS and did not see any babies there for a while now and I can not figure out why ?


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

I know that the API ammonia test can be difficult to read, but you said that your community tank has ammonia 0 while your shrimp tank has ammonia over 0? So there is a definite difference between the 2 results? If so, I would look into why you shrimp tank seem to be cycling again.

As for your sword, it may simply be adjusting to the new light level.

Finally, if you have parasites in your tank, you really need to do something about that.


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## ppaskova (Apr 27, 2010)

solarz said:


> If so, I would look into why you shrimp tank seem to be cycling again.


I had to change the shrimp tank (the tank itself) little over a months ago as it cracked while I was cleaning it's glass. I had to move everything and everybody (including gravel, water, plants, shrimps, etc...) to the new tank. My understanding is that it should not cycle again as everything including bacteria has been moved. But this is could be the reason for it cycling again ? What is also strange that PH in that tank is higher than in the community one. But I use same water for both of them.

Regarding the parasites it is only affecting the life breeders and in my community tank I have a lot of other tetra style fish and also assassin snails and amano shrimps. The only way for me to use the cure is to put all life breeders (which is about 8 left) in the coronation tank (but remaining 8 don't show any signs of parasites at the moment and they have been in the tank for 3+ months now).


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