# People with no sense of responsibility



## ryno1974

Today I was at Big Al's picking up some fish, and while I was waiting at the counter a lady came in with her two little kids (probably 7 and 5ish) carrying a large tupperware container. She told the guy working there she was "here to drop these off". She opened the lid to reveal two 6" RES turtles. She went on to say "they have gotten too big for us to look after". She took the kids to say good bye to their pets, and then on her way out was looking at some reptile and asking questions about how big it got, etc.

Obviously people should do some research before buying something living, but once you dont do that and take the responsibility its just just that - a responsibility. THose of us with kids know there are days we want to drop them off somewhere, but they are our responsibility and rely on us to look after them. Animals may not be people, but they deserve proper treatment too.To be clear, she looked like a typical middle class, 30 year old mini van driving, lulu lemon wearing, designer sunglass wearing suburban soccer mom. There are used aquariums on kjiji right now from $0.50 per gallon to $1.00 a gallon and they are always there. It is not a cost thing, it is a not wanting to look after this animal anymore thing.

I get people make mistakes, and things change, but animal shelters are full of "oopses" and the only thing suffering is the animal. Big Al's may take this kind of stuff back, but take a look around the store and you will see no one is beating down the door to snap up 2 year old turtles or foot long Oscars.

Rant over, I feel better now.

Oh, and if you ever have to get rid of a pet, PLEASE find someone that wants to care for it and give it to them. And dont post it on kijiji, my house can only handle so many rescue animals


----------



## Ciddian

1+

I have had to rehome my frog because of my new apt not accepting crickets but aside from that most of my pets are unwanted animals. In fact, one of my RES was a drop off as well.

my two cats are accident litters, my bird was an abuse case, a lot of my fish were fish that people just didnt want/have room for anymore. 

The turtles really break my heart, I never sold one while I was working at a LFS. I explained just how big they got and I was kinda baffled that people always say. "Ohhh they dont stay that small?"

Every single time... which means to me that they never took one second to even read about the turtles care. Not even a glance. 

I don't like lfs that sell these animals without telling people either about them. I know some good stores do, but usually those stores you wont find RES anymore.

eehh I could rant forever about it myself.


----------



## Joeee

There's something else that is worse than this, I just forgot what it was though >.<

But another of my amazing stories:
I went to PetSmart and a family was asking a sales associate about goldfish. The mother said that the son 'won it in a contest at school'. I should note that this is about 3 weeks ago, so about 2-3 weeks after high school and elementary schools stop having classes for summer. The mother also mentioned that they kept it in a bowl for about 2 weeks and that it started to smell a while ago. So what this tells us is that they've kept the fish in a bowl for about a month and that they have no regard for the fish's life and a school deserves to be complained about (too bad I forgot to ask her what school this was). The mother pointed out to the cheapest thing that she saw that had a filter (after the sales associate mentioned that a filter would help), this happened to be a 5G Eclipse wrongly priced at $15 (Regularly $55). At that point there was a moment of Joeee's Mighty Intervention where the mother was educated about the care of fish. I told her that her house was too warm for goldfish (which the sales associate did not mention), that the Eclipse is actually around $45-$55 but they'd have to give her the price it was labelled as, and everything else she and her family did wrong.

There's also the type of person who buys a fish to do something they don't want to do. Here's a familiar story for a few of us:
A man wants to buy a cheap pleco for his cichlid tank to eat the algae, he does not want to pay much for this pleco. He also does not know if any aggression will occur between his pleco and his cichlids. This man goes to the solicits assistance from somewhere else to obtain this pleco without doing any research on this pleco. What this tells us is that the man has a hedonistic philosophy on life, he does not wish to clean algae himself (which I actually find sometimes to be quite enjoyable), he has little regard for this pleco's wellbeing (shown by his 'i want a cheap pleco to test out to see if my cichlids will attack it'), and his seeking out of assistance withing doing research shows a reckless decision made by an uninhibited man. And now I'm going to add a twist ending to this to make it a bit more enjoyable for myself, the pleco eats all of his cichlids.


----------



## bigfishy

Joeee said:


> And now I'm going to add a twist ending to this to make it a bit more enjoyable for myself, the pleco eats all of his cichlids.


He brought a pleco but it turns out to be a bagarius bagarius, and it eat all of his cichlids


----------



## Joeee

bigfishy said:


> He brought a pleco but it turns out to be a bagarius bagarius, and it eat all of his cichlids


Seriously?


----------



## bumbleboo

I totally agree with this thread. It's horrible that people think animals are disposable. They get attached to their environments, and in the case of mammals at least, the people too. It's possible for them to find new homes, but why do people put them through this if they can't commit?

Both of my cats are from the shelter here, and one of them is terrified of men. Someone must have done something terrible to him, because whenever my roommate (who is male) carries something, he gets terrified and hisses and runs away, and I have to comfort him. He is the sweetest cat, but he also has the most severe abandonment issues. I'm pretty sure someone just dumped him in the middle of nowhere because he was a stray. Whenever I went to school, he'd scream as I was waiting for the elevator. So this is where my second cat came in. (I believe in keeping animals in groups anyway... no one likes to be lonely!)

So I adopted this adorable gray little cat. He clung to me when I picked him up, and was like a little koala. So I signed the papers to come and get him next week. I come to pick him up, and there's a woman in front of me, with one of those litter boxes with the domes on top. The front was boarded by cardboard, and there was no litter in it at least, but still in my opinion, not the best transportation unit. So she walks up to the lady at the counter in the animal shelter, and says, "I'm returning this cat. He is boring and won't play with my daughter. I don't want him. All he does is sleep." So the lady at the desk, said little and brought out the papers to return him. And as she was doing it, the lady kept bitching about how boring the cat was. Seriously? Animals are not here to ENTERTAIN you. Sometimes they do entertaining things, sure, but it's not their sole purpose.

But to be honest, maybe it's for the best. People like that shouldn't have pets anyway. It's just honestly sad how lowly people regard animals sometimes.


----------



## bigfishy

Joeee said:


> Seriously?


It is quite impossible for a pleco to eat a cichlid, but a bagarius bagarius looks similar to a pleco and it doesn't move much... it's possible... put on your thinking cap....



Ever wonder where those "BIG" turtles end up after they bought back to the pet store? I heard some Asian (not me) buys them and eats them, since most supermarket only sell frozen turtle and not live ones...

doesn't it look like a pleco????


----------



## Joeee

bumbleboo said:


> I totally agree with this thread. It's horrible that people think animals are disposable. They get attached to their environments, and in the case of mammals at least, the people too. It's possible for them to find new homes, but why do people put them through this if they can't commit?
> 
> Both of my cats are from the shelter here, and one of them is terrified of men. Someone must have done something terrible to him, because whenever my roommate (who is male) carries something, he gets terrified and hisses and runs away, and I have to comfort him. He is the sweetest cat, but he also has the most severe abandonment issues. I'm pretty sure someone just dumped him in the middle of nowhere because he was a stray. Whenever I went to school, he'd scream as I was waiting for the elevator. So this is where my second cat came in. (I believe in keeping animals in groups anyway... no one likes to be lonely!)
> 
> So I adopted this adorable gray little cat. He clung to me when I picked him up, and was like a little koala. So I signed the papers to come and get him next week. I come to pick him up, and there's a woman in front of me, with one of those litter boxes with the domes on top. The front was boarded by cardboard, and there was no litter in it at least, but still in my opinion, not the best transportation unit. So she walks up to the lady at the counter in the animal shelter, and says, "I'm returning this cat. He is boring and won't play with my daughter. I don't want him. All he does is sleep." So the lady at the desk, said little and brought out the papers to return him. And as she was doing it, the lady kept bitching about how boring the cat was. Seriously? Animals are not here to ENTERTAIN you. Sometimes they do entertaining things, sure, but it's not their sole purpose.
> 
> But to be honest, maybe it's for the best. People like that shouldn't have pets anyway. It's just honestly sad how lowly people regard animals sometimes.


WE'RE TALKING ABOUT FISH NOT CATS!!!!
Lol, just kidding.

But seriously, when they return things and say something like "It's boring", you should go out of the way to make them uncomfortable. In your case, you should of said "That's what she said", or "Do you have a huge sand castle in your vag?", or something else which is not appropriate but will make a good story. ;]


----------



## Joeee

bigfishy said:


> It is quite impossible for a pleco to eat a cichlid, but a bagarius bagarius looks similar to a pleco and it doesn't move much... it's possible... put on your thinking cap....
> 
> 
> 
> doesn't it look like a pleco????


Anything that looks like a catfish looks like either a pleco or a shark to me. This is me:

Person 1: HOLY SHIT IS THAT SOME ULTRA RARE PLECO?
Self: No, I think it's an iridescent shark, but I'm not sure.
Person 1: Errr, I don't think ID Sharks are pink.


----------



## bumbleboo

Joeee said:


> WE'RE TALKING ABOUT FISH NOT CATS!!!!
> Lol, just kidding.
> 
> But seriously, when they return things and say something like "It's boring", you should go out of the way to make them uncomfortable. In your case, you should of said "That's what she said", or "Do you have a huge sand castle in your vag?", or something else which is not appropriate but will make a good story. ;]


AHAHAH that would have been amazing. Honestly, if it was now, I would have. I am a lot more outspoken now, I was soooo shy back then. It was also annoying because, something I forgot to mention, she was looking around as she was saying these things as if to gain acceptance from everyone around her. "YEAH WHAT I'M DOING IS RIGHT, RIGHT?"


----------



## Joeee

bumbleboo said:


> AHAHAH that would have been amazing. Honestly, if it was now, I would have. I am a lot more outspoken now, I was soooo shy back then. It was also annoying because, something I forgot to mention, she was looking around as she was saying these things as if to gain acceptance from everyone around her. "YEAH WHAT I'M DOING IS RIGHT, RIGHT?"


Some things that I learned that piss women off:
1. When you say they're pregnant and they're not
2. When you say they're old

Maybe you could of put them together and said "I think the negative energy around you is bad for your offspring [Point to bellly]. But hey! Aren't you a little too old to have a baby? Or are you just looking for something to do when you retire?"

But the "I'm giving this away because it's boring, I'm doing this because it's the right thing to do" is like:
"MY FISH IS BORING! ALL IT DOES IS SWIM AROUND IN IT'S AQUARIUM"


----------



## bigfishy

Joeee said:


> Some things that I learned that piss women off:
> 1. When you say they're pregnant and they're not
> 2. When you say they're old
> 
> Maybe you could of put them together and said "I think the negative energy around you is bad for your offspring [Point to bellly]. But hey! Aren't you a little too old to have a baby? Or are you just looking for something to do when you retire?"
> 
> But the "I'm giving this away because it's boring, I'm doing this because it's the right thing to do" is like:
> "MY FISH IS BORING! ALL IT DOES IS SWIM AROUND IN IT'S AQUARIUM"


Is it a Chaca chaca? You will be amaze of how boring that catfish is!



and you should tell person 1, that albino ID shark can be pink!


----------



## bumbleboo

Joeee said:


> Some things that I learned that piss women off:
> 1. When you say they're pregnant and they're not
> 2. When you say they're old
> 
> Maybe you could of put them together and said "I think the negative energy around you is bad for your offspring [Point to bellly]. But hey! Aren't you a little too old to have a baby? Or are you just looking for something to do when you retire?"
> 
> But the "I'm giving this away because it's boring, I'm doing this because it's the right thing to do" is like:
> "MY FISH IS BORING! ALL IT DOES IS SWIM AROUND IN IT'S AQUARIUM"


Hah! Yeah. She is definitely an idiot. And sadly, she got another cat after that... she went to look at the kittens. I don't think someone like that is responsible enough to take care of a kitten. Personally I didn't get kittens cause I know cats have a harder time finding homes, and I knew I didn't have time to care for a kitten fully (being in college and all).

Well, we can just hope she never got another cat, or animal of any sort.

In terms of fish though, I think they can go through situations a lot worse cause there is SO much ignorance toward their care, and people are just so lazy.

"I put 5 goldfish in a cookie jar, and then they died. Why?"

WHY?

REALLY?

(Yes, someone said that to me.)

And sometimes it's not even that people are just ignorant. Sometimes they are BLISSFULLY so. "Yes, I want to put as many pretty coloured fish in this small tank, and you will never stop me. If they die, so what?"

I like to hope people are becoming more informed. But it seems everyday people love to proooove me wrong and destroy my faith! (And not only about this issue).


----------



## bigfishy

bumbleboo said:


> (Yes, someone said that to me.)
> 
> And sometimes it's not even that people are just ignorant. Sometimes they are BLISSFULLY so. "Yes, I want to put as many pretty coloured fish in this small tank, and you will never stop me. If they die, so what?"


you reply them the following...

KARMA!!!! the FISH willl get you!!! look into their eye and be afraid! BE very afraid!!! They will get you!!! If they don't, I WILL!!! I WILL!!!!


----------



## bumbleboo

bigfishy said:


> you reply them the following...
> 
> KARMA!!!! the FISH willl get you!!! look into their eye and be afraid! BE very afraid!!! They will get you!!!


Eeeeeeexcept then I'd look crazy!


----------



## Joeee

bumbleboo said:


> Hah! Yeah. She is definitely an idiot. And sadly, she got another cat after that... she went to look at the kittens. I don't think someone like that is responsible enough to take care of a kitten. Personally I didn't get kittens cause I know cats have a harder time finding homes, and I knew I didn't have time to care for a kitten fully (being in college and all).


I'd prefer a fully grown cat, you don't need take them out and have everyone want to pet it. When it's fully grown you can just me like "YOU TOUCH MY CAT IT CLAW YOUR EYES OUT".



bumbleboo said:


> In terms of fish though, I think they can go through situations a lot worse cause there is SO much ignorance toward their care, and people are just so lazy.
> 
> "I put 5 goldfish in a cookie jar, and then they died. Why?"
> 
> WHY?
> 
> REALLY?
> 
> (Yes, someone said that to me.)
> 
> And sometimes it's not even that people are just ignorant. Sometimes they are BLISSFULLY so. "Yes, I want to put as many pretty coloured fish in this small tank, and you will never stop me. If they die, so what?"
> 
> I like to hope people are becoming more informed. But it seems everyday people love to proooove me wrong and destroy my faith! (And not only about this issue).


I think turtles have it worse, the thing with fish is that you likely will find someone (usually at least one) at every LFS who knows proper care. But with turtles, it's rare to find someone who can properly teach proper turtle care. I noticed that a lot of people who work in reptile departments of pet stores are usually creepy guys (and I think there's one really hot one who works at BA's Mississauga, he might be in the dry goods department though... LOL) who don't really seem want to talk about anything.

Especially when turtles were sold in 'Turtle Lagoons', euphemism for death boxes:
http://www.petdiscounters.com/mc_images/product/image/d_3904.jpg


----------



## Joeee

bigfishy said:


> Is it a Chaca chaca? You will be amaze of how boring that catfish is!
> 
> 
> 
> and you should tell person 1, that albino ID shark can be pink!


Those 'chaca chaca' things are the second ugliest thing I've ever seen. The first ugliest is the lamprey, they all deserve to die.


----------



## bumbleboo

Joeee said:


> I think turtles have it worse, the thing with fish is that you likely will find someone (usually at least one) at every LFS who knows proper care. But with turtles, it's rare to find someone who can properly teach proper turtle care. I noticed that a lot of people who work in reptile departments of pet stores are usually creepy guys (and I think there's one really hot one who works at BA's Mississauga, he might be in the dry goods department though... LOL) who don't really seem want to talk about anything.
> 
> Especially when turtles were sold in 'Turtle Lagoons', euphemism for death boxes:
> http://www.petdiscounters.com/mc_images/product/image/d_3904.jpg


That's a good point.  It's sad now because now whenever you speak to someone that has turtles or fish, and you suspect they might not know anything, it's like you don't want to talk to them about it because you feel they might get high and might, and offended. (As I find, they often do). Because they feel they know what's right, but really, it's just that they're lazy, and they try to justify it as the former.

I actually can't see the link you posted, but I'll believe you...


----------



## bigfishy

Joeee said:


> I'd prefer a fully grown cat, you don't need take them out and have everyone want to pet it. When it's fully grown you can just me like "YOU TOUCH MY CAT IT CLAW YOUR EYES OUT".
> 
> I think turtles have it worse, the thing with fish is that you likely will find someone (usually at least one) at every LFS who knows proper care. But with turtles, it's rare to find someone who can properly teach proper turtle care. I noticed that a lot of people who work in reptile departments of pet stores are usually creepy guys (and I think there's one really hot one who works at BA's Mississauga, he might be in the dry goods department though... LOL) who don't really seem want to talk about anything.
> 
> Especially when turtles were sold in 'Turtle Lagoons', euphemism for death boxes:
> http://www.petdiscounters.com/mc_images/product/image/d_3904.jpg


Not just fish and turtle, it applies to other exotic animals too...

Ever seen a Juvi Green Anaconda in a pet shop???? What are they thinking of selling those to the public???



the pic = got it from kijiji, and seen the snake in person, it's a cool girl!


----------



## Joeee

bumbleboo said:


> That's a good point.  It's sad now because now whenever you speak to someone that has turtles or fish, and you suspect they might not know anything, it's like you don't want to talk to them about it because you feel they might get high and might, and offended. (As I find, they often do). Because they feel they know what's right, but really, it's just that they're lazy, and they try to justify it as the former.
> 
> I actually can't see the link you posted, but I'll believe you...


Just google "Turtle lagoon" and you'll see lots of pictures.

I hate correcting a lot of people at some LFS, I'm not old and I don't look old. Usually, the LFS workers look older than me, so when I correct them the customers usually believe the LFS worker and not me.


----------



## Joeee

bigfishy said:


> Not just fish and turtle, it applies to other exotic animals too...
> 
> Ever seen a Juvi Green Anaconda in a pet shop???? What are they thinking of selling those to the public???
> 
> 
> 
> the pic = got it from kijiji, and seen the snake in person, it's a cool girl!


My abusive turtle friend wants to get a snake -.-
I'm going to make her not want one by showing her how expensive it actually is and how much work it is.

Btw, are snakes only fed live crickets? I don't recall seeing any 'Snake pellets' at any pet store.


----------



## bumbleboo

Joeee said:


> Just google "Turtle lagoon" and you'll see lots of pictures.
> 
> I hate correcting a lot of people at some LFS, I'm not old and I don't look old. Usually, the LFS workers look older than me, so when I correct them the customers usually believe the LFS worker and not me.


Those are awful. 

Time to buy some facial hair! My roommate bought 10 mustaches on eBay for $1.00. Do I know why? No. Does he? No. But it's amazing anyway.


----------



## Joeee

bumbleboo said:


> Those are awful.
> 
> Time to buy some facial hair!


I get my revenge, especially at Big Al's. When someone wants to trade something in and they're talking to a manager that I complained to and hasn't done anything, I tell the manager to let me have a minute with the person that wants to trade in their fish/shrimp/reptile and tell them where they can sell it to someone for cash.

I also randomly 'accidently' open those top thingies with my ass when I'm bending over to look at stuff and walking around. It does sound like quite a bother to close it.

I'm a shit disturber.


----------



## bigfishy

Joeee said:


> My abusive turtle friend wants to get a snake -.-
> I'm going to make her not want one by showing her how expensive it actually is and how much work it is.
> 
> Btw, are snakes only fed live crickets? I don't recall seeing any 'Snake pellets' at any pet store.


Depends, if your keeping eastern smooth green snake, they eat fish and crickets

Larger species such as rat snake (corn snake is a type of rat snake), python, boa, they eat rats (baby to adult, depend on the snake's size), and even bunnies


----------



## Joeee

bigfishy said:


> Depends, if your keeping eastern smooth green snake, they eat fish and crickets
> 
> Larger species such as rat snake (corn snake is a type of rat snake), python, boa, they eat rats (baby to adult, depend on the snake's size), and even bunnies


Is it true that some snakes can go without eating for a month? O_O

How do snakes poop?


----------



## bigfishy

Joeee said:


> My abusive turtle friend wants to get a snake -.-
> I'm going to make her not want one by showing her how expensive it actually is and how much work it is.


Honestly, it's not that expensive nor hard to own a snake, unless you go for some show pieces (green tree python and other python morphs)



Joeee said:


> I get my revenge, especially at Big Al's. When someone wants to trade something in and they're talking to a manager that I complained to and hasn't done anything, I tell the manager to let me have a minute with the person that wants to trade in their fish/shrimp/reptile and tell them where they can sell it to someone for cash.


You can tell me where I can sell my 12" Polypterus Endlicheri for cash!!!  Big Als doesn't want it!


----------



## bigfishy

Joeee said:


> Is it true that some snakes can go without eating for a month? O_O
> 
> How do snakes poop?


That's abusing the snake, it should be fed 3-4 days or at least once a week, depends on what kind of snake it is

Then again, some large snakes with large meal can go without eating for several weeks...

.... How do humans poop?


----------



## Joeee

bigfishy said:


> Honestly, it's not that expensive nor hard to own a snake, unless you go for some show pieces (green tree python and other python morphs)


It's going to be one of those 'OMG IT'S SO CUTE" things and then she's going to leave it for about 3 months and then realize she needs to feed it.



bigfishy said:


> You can tell me where I can sell my 12" Polypterus Endlicheri for cash!!!  Big Als doesn't want it!


There's a guy at works at PetSmart in Mississauga at the Heartland location named Daryl. I think he's going to Florida soon, I think he works on Fridays and the weekends. Just say that you heard he may be interested in buying reptiles from a friend. I know he bought geckos (fat-something geckos, fat-tail?) but I think they were still relatively small.


----------



## bigfishy

Joeee said:


> It's going to be one of those 'OMG IT'S SO CUTE" things and then she's going to leave it for about 3 months and then realize she needs to feed it.


It's so cute till it bites her hand! It does hurt!!!  No snake owner in this world that never got bitten by a snake before!

Some snakes have fish hook teeth, it's VERY SCARY!!! 



Joeee said:


> There's a guy at works at PetSmart in Mississauga at the Heartland location named Daryl. I think he's going to Florida soon, I think he works on Fridays and the weekends. Just say that you heard he may be interested in buying reptiles from a friend. I know he bought geckos (fat-something geckos, fat-tail?) but I think they were still relatively small.


but... a Polypterus endlicheri is a type of fish


----------



## Joeee

bigfishy said:


> It's so cute till it bites her hand! It does hurt!!!  No snake owner in this world that never got bitten by a snake before!
> 
> Some snakes have fish hook teeth, it's VERY SCARY!!!


Would a snake bite if I raised it since it was a hatchling?



bigfishy said:


> but... a Polypterus endlicheri is a type of fish


Release it, LOL just kidding.


----------



## bigfishy

Joeee said:


> Would a snake bite if I raised it since it was a hatchling?


Yes, it's possible!

As starter snake, get a ball python, they are the tamest! 



Joeee said:


> Release it, LOL just kidding.


If I can, I would.

---------------------
Ciddan and OP poster will have a lot of reading tomorrow! hehehe


----------



## Ciddian

.....

Don't even get me going bigfish LOL

Yea snakes do have it hard, their prey, even worse but thats a whole nother can of worms. The pet trade is a horrible thing sadly.. 

I am one of those people who wish there was a test you have to fill out before buying an animal like that. But of course not, there is no money in it.


----------



## blackninja

Ciddian said:


> .....
> 
> Don't even get me going bigfish LOL
> 
> Yea snakes do have it hard, their prey, even worse but thats a whole nother can of worms. The pet trade is a horrible thing sadly..
> 
> I am one of those people who wish there was a test you have to fill out before buying an animal like that. But of course not, there is no money in it.


They already have this in the UK. Authorities will actually come and inspect your house/living conditions before they allow you to adopt a animal/pet and if it does not meet their guidelines your request can be rejected. Even the handling of fish is now subjected to SPCA rules and the sale of fish bowls are gradually being banned.


----------



## bluegill

If you've ever worked in an animal shelter, you would truely know how sad it is for unwanted cats these days in the big city.


----------



## bigfishy

blackninja said:


> They already have this in the UK. Authorities will actually come and inspect your house/living conditions before they allow you to adopt a animal/pet and if it does not meet their guidelines your request can be rejected. Even the handling of fish is now subjected to SPCA rules and the sale of fish bowls are gradually being banned.


Canadain governments are too cheap to do that


----------



## blackninja

bigfishy said:


> Canadain governments are too cheap to do that


You might be right. The bigger problem is we lack leadership. Our recent leaders have internalized our problems and lost the vision that made Canada a global player where we set by example higher aspirations for humanity which was respected and admired by the global community.
Today we are perceived as just another country wrapped in denial of our own expectations watered down to satisfy the lowest common denominator of our base instinct. We were once great if you can bear this distinction, we are still here if you can accept our resignation. BN.


----------



## TBemba

So how does wild caught fish affect the trade? 


It depletes the environment, people trample the area and exploit the locals to collect their native fish. Not to mention the cost of shipping the high price for availability. The cruel way most wild fish are caught. The high numbers of deaths to get them to the fish store. Then some dude that thinks because he has keep a bunch of fish but none longer than 6 months a year at the most. The guy either ends up killing all the fish so what a waste of the whole process of getting in exotic fish, or he successful breeds them and sells dozens of fry on a website to other newbie’s that end up killing them in their tanks and then coming on a forum like this to see what they did wrong? They ask but because they know more than anyone else could ever know never really takes any advice, well unless it's the advice they themselves agree with.


----------



## Ciddian

its so true....

People O_O at me all the time when I tell them about most of my fish being 6+ years.


----------



## fishclubgirl

If I can interject here?? The SPCA will take unwanted fish, snakes, etc. and CAOAC runs a fish rescue too. My idea in Calgary is to donate "bump" money from our auctions to the SPCA to help support their tanks. We may not be able to educate everyone but we can help out the fish, reptiles etc with finding a better home. OK, I'll get off my soapbox!!


----------



## Joeee

Ciddian said:


> its so true....
> 
> People O_O at me all the time when I tell them about most of my fish being 6+ years.


O_O

10 characters


----------



## Ciddian

They do live longer than a couple of months. LOL..

Oohh fishclubgirl, how does that fish rescue work? I would rather adopt from something like that.


----------



## Joeee

Here's the Ontario OSPCA for anyone who was too lazy to google it:
http://ontariospca.ca/index.shtml

I'm very curious as to what would be considered 'animal cruelty' that I can report. I've heard that a pet store that is relatively close to me was reported to animal control (or some organization) a few years back, but I haven't heard anything else about it so I have to dismiss it as hearsay.


----------



## ryno1974

Joeee said:


> Here's the Ontario OSPCA for anyone who was too lazy to google it:
> http://ontariospca.ca/index.shtml
> 
> I'm very curious as to what would be considered 'animal cruelty' that I can report. I've heard that a pet store that is relatively close to me was reported to animal control (or some organization) a few years back, but I haven't heard anything else about it so I have to dismiss it as hearsay.


Link to answer your question from your own post:

http://ontariospca.ca/1-whatis.shtml


----------



## Ciddian

I see my banner is catching on, I had a friend make it.  .. :heehee:


----------



## blackninja

Your banner very effectively sends the message home Ciddian. If we could help the public to pause and think before they took on a pet the long time commitment it would require to care for it. I am sure we could reduce the number of animals abandoned and from overwhelming those shelters. I got my stapler ready.


----------



## bcarlos

Joeee said:


> Would a snake bite if I raised it since it was a hatchling?


Snake eyesight is terrible, so there's always the possibility you could get nipped. It doesn't hurt, but it is so fast that it will shock you.

A little trick for nippy snakes-- wear rubber dish gloves when handling. The taste of the rubber repels them and they learn quite quickly that your hands don't taste good


----------



## bigfishy

That applies to small snake, but not to adult... O_O

I don't keep snakes anymore because of the multiply wounds I use to get 

Joeee you can scare your friend by this picture!

Ever got bitten by these guys???? Black Blood Python (It hurt like HELL)


----------



## blackninja

The question asked by Joeee was "Would a snake bite if I raised it since it was a hatchling?"
Unlike ducks which are known to attach to the first thing they see at birth, snakes do not exhibit such attachments or develop strong bonds with their owners.
Will snakes turn on their owners. Yes. Pythons are known to kill their owners. Even certain breeds of dogs will turn on their owners if they are severely abused.


----------



## bigfishy

In earlier post, he said he got a female friend that wanted to keep a snake because of their cuteness. Now I show him how ugly they can get when they are big!  

There was a reptile store at Kingston Rd (beside North American Fish Breeder). The owner was named Oscar (a brother of John from NAFB) and I brought one of these blood python for $300, and my life was never the same again! It was so nippy, that "FEAR" will engulf you!  



So never buy a snake, unless you can takes the "BITE" 



and they can live for decades! so be responsible! research! ++++++++ before getting one!


----------



## blackninja

bigfishy said:


> In earlier post, he said he got a female friend that wanted to keep a snake because of their cuteness. Now I show him how ugly they can get when they are big!
> 
> There was a reptile store at Kingston Rd (beside North American Fish Breeder). The owner was named Oscar (a brother of John from NAFB) and I brought one of these blood python for $300, and my life was never the same again! It was so nippy, that "FEAR" will engulf you!
> 
> 
> 
> So never buy a snake, unless you can takes the "BITE"
> 
> 
> 
> and they can live for decades! so be responsible! research! ++++++++ before getting one!


They are beautiful animals and we could not have enjoyed our depravity so much if it wasn't for one of them. LoL.


----------



## b.appel13

blackninja said:


> They are beautiful animals and we could not have enjoyed our depravity so much if it wasn't for one of them. LoL.


as much as we advocate to take responsibility when picking a pet it will never happen. Breeders try and screen who they sell to but at some point they need to sell.

If the breeder is a hobby breeder they can take their time in picking (like I did) But ive known breeders who took excellent care of their animals and did play the pick and choose game who to sell too, but these breeders were also doing this as their "job" only source of income so it comes a time that you need to watch your margins, And eventually sell the animal to the best you can find...might not be the one you really want to sell it to but you do wanna eat that night.

You will always see RES in peoples homes and eventually being given up, You will always see someone buying a ball python and 3 yrs later getting rid of it.

Your banners will do nothing on a forum like this as 90% of these people know. You are preaching to people who also preach. Its sad but true. The only way your banner would work is if you had the money and the passion to get a billboard. Then the GENERAL public is going to know. After all its the general public being mislead by the stores.


----------



## ryno1974

b.appel13 said:


> as much as we advocate to take responsibility when picking a pet it will never happen. Breeders try and screen who they sell to but at some point they need to sell.
> 
> If the breeder is a hobby breeder they can take their time in picking (like I did) But ive known breeders who took excellent care of their animals and did play the pick and choose game who to sell too, but these breeders were also doing this as their "job" only source of income so it comes a time that you need to watch your margins, And eventually sell the animal to the best you can find...might not be the one you really want to sell it to but you do wanna eat that night.
> 
> You will always see RES in peoples homes and eventually being given up, You will always see someone buying a ball python and 3 yrs later getting rid of it.
> 
> Your banners will do nothing on a forum like this as 90% of these people know. You are preaching to people who also preach. Its sad but true. The only way your banner would work is if you had the money and the passion to get a billboard. Then the GENERAL public is going to know. After all its the general public being mislead by the stores.


Does the banner do any harm? No, but you are right it is preaching to the choir. However, most people that post on one forum end up on another. And another. And yet another. Then the message spreads. Not to mention that if anyone googles "How to repair an aqurium" they will get linked to this site, and quite possibly a thread that I have either started or commented on. Now a newb will see my banner and maybe (hopefully) contimplate the menaing.

Dont get me wrong, I dont think this will change the world - but throwing up your hands and saying nothing will help will definately not change anything.


----------



## fishclubgirl

More details on fish rescue at www.caoac.ca Perhaps someone knows of a reptile rescue local that people can be referred too???


----------



## Joeee

The sigs aren't as affective as you guys seem to think. Anyone who has read most of this thread up until this point has realized;
1. People that don't do research buy turtles
2. These people don't know the maximum size of the turtle
3. Turtles are often kept in an inadequate habitat
4. Fully grown turtles aren't that difficult to get rid of
An average person who thinks a turtle is cute will go out and buy one and ask the fish store worker about basic care. Usually, this fish store worker won't know very much at all about turtles, or much about fish at all. When the turtle begins to grow bigger and bigger, the turtle owner will eventually realize that they grow much bigger than they had anticipated. At this point, the turtle owner no longer will want the turtle and feels that he has three options:
1. Return the turtle back to the fish store
2. Set the turtle free
3. Give the turtle a proper habitat
Option one is not always possible, the store that they bought the turtle from may not want it back, which with larger turtles is more common.
Option three rarely ever happens, as soon as the average person sees "Maximum size 14" caraspace", "1 inch per 10G water", and "twice the amount of filtration for fish" they are very likely turn back to option 1 or 2.
When option 1 or 3 aren't a choice, then they turn to option 2.

But the thing is, a lot of these turtles don't grow to their maximum size, they usually die before that. I know a guy who can get RES for a few dollars each (around $5), he goes up north to sell them for $12 each. He usually takes about 100 with him and sell all of them by the end of the day. Out of these 100 turtles, how many do you think survive? How many do you think get proper housing, a basking spot, and proper feedings?


----------



## blackninja

b.appel13 said:


> as much as we advocate to take responsibility when picking a pet it will never happen. Breeders try and screen who they sell to but at some point they need to sell.
> 
> If the breeder is a hobby breeder they can take their time in picking (like I did) But ive known breeders who took excellent care of their animals and did play the pick and choose game who to sell too, but these breeders were also doing this as their "job" only source of income so it comes a time that you need to watch your margins, And eventually sell the animal to the best you can find...might not be the one you really want to sell it to but you do wanna eat that night.
> 
> You will always see RES in peoples homes and eventually being given up, You will always see someone buying a ball python and 3 yrs later getting rid of it.
> 
> Your banners will do nothing on a forum like this as 90% of these people know. You are preaching to people who also preach. Its sad but true. The only way your banner would work is if you had the money and the passion to get a billboard. Then the GENERAL public is going to know. After all its the general public being mislead by the stores.


We have come a lot further than your material suggest. There are pet stores that do not sell pets and encourage adoptions. The move to end pet stores from selling pets altogether in being debated where breeder will be the primary source. The release of statistical information by agencies responsible for managing this growing problem and the mind boggling numbers of orphaned animals, their miserable conditions, over supply etc. are all directed to educate the public and create public awareness of their plight.
But you are right even the best of measures will have little impact and there is still a long way to go.
As for my quote "They are beautiful animals and we could not have enjoyed our depravity so much if it wasn't for one of them. LoL." I was referring to the serpent in the garden of Eden who succeeded in getting us to eat of the forbidden fruit and why we owe it a a mention for the depravity we now enjoy. I apologize if it sounded like preaching. It was just a way to help people get over their fear of snakes and to make up for having demonized it for so long. LoL.


----------



## b.appel13

blackninja said:


> We have come a lot further than your material suggest. There are pet stores that do not sell pets and encourage adoptions. The move to end pet stores from selling pets altogether in being debated where breeder will be the primary source. The release of statistical information by agencies responsible for managing this growing problem and the mind boggling numbers of orphaned animals, their miserable conditions, over supply etc. are all directed to educate the public and create public awareness of their plight.
> But you are right even the best of measures will have little impact and there is still a long way to go.
> As for my quote "They are beautiful animals and we could not have enjoyed our depravity so much if it wasn't for one of them. LoL." I was referring to the serpent in the garden of Eden who succeeded in getting us to eat of the forbidden fruit and why we owe it a a mention for the depravity we now enjoy. I apologize if it sounded like preaching. It was just a way to help people get over their fear of snakes and to make up for having demonized it for so long. LoL.


Oh dont get me wrong ive seen res being sold less in more PRIVATE LFS which is the big thing. Walk into any big chain and you will more then likely see a tank right near the door with tons of RES atleast in the falls is how it stands.

We as hobbiests need to understand we are in this hobby for the enjoyment and at some point we need to realize its not worth getting angry or stressed about. People to this day raid ponds for RES. Its a sad but true fact.

RES are the main issue people talk about and never mention the Iguanas, they are being dismanteled in home just as much as RES.

Im not bashing anyone for advocating it and good on you, just remember youre suppose to enjoy the hobby so when you start getting angry it becomes not worth it.

ps...I got bad rep for my other response...haha nice.


----------



## Ciddian

I personally don't get angry anymore. I just try to inform people as I go. Just as I did when I worked in LFS's and on my own.

If showing a banner is one of my little ways then that makes me happy. I know it wont help 100% of the time or even 50% of the time...but for the handful of people I talk to and the turtles I've taken out of bad situations and replaced into better ones is my own little way of helping.

I feel horrible for iggys, birds, all the animals that suffer because of bad people, I can only do so much myself or the animals I try to help would only suffer more in the end.


----------



## ryno1974

b.appel13 said:


> Oh dont get me wrong ive seen res being sold less in more PRIVATE LFS which is the big thing. Walk into any big chain and you will more then likely see a tank right near the door with tons of RES atleast in the falls is how it stands.
> 
> We as hobbiests need to understand we are in this hobby for the enjoyment and at some point we need to realize its not worth getting angry or stressed about. People to this day raid ponds for RES. Its a sad but true fact.
> 
> RES are the main issue people talk about and never mention the Iguanas, they are being dismanteled in home just as much as RES.
> 
> Im not bashing anyone for advocating it and good on you, just remember youre suppose to enjoy the hobby so when you start getting angry it becomes not worth it.
> 
> ps...I got bad rep for my other response...haha nice.


Cant blame me for the bad rep, I just learned the whole rep thing was even there on Saturday 

You are 100% right. I love the hobby, and I dont let it get to me, usually. I just had to vent the other day when I posted this because I was p'd off.

And I am picking on RES because that was the catalyst for my post, and I have one. I agree there are probably tons of other poor pets out there that need help.


----------



## AquaNekoMobile

Joeee said:


> Just google "Turtle lagoon" and you'll see lots of pictures.
> 
> I hate correcting a lot of people at some LFS, I'm not old and I don't look old. Usually, the LFS workers look older than me, so when I correct them the customers usually believe the LFS worker and not me.


If the store has reference books that reference what you're talking the best is to take a book off thier shelf and show what you're talking about there.  Or show up with referenced pages with images and such on a laptop with a folder on the desktop ready to show people then when someone says something you can whip it out and show them.


----------



## AquaNekoMobile

Joeee said:


> I get my revenge, especially at Big Al's. When someone wants to trade something in and they're talking to a manager that I complained to and hasn't done anything, I tell the manager to let me have a minute with the person that wants to trade in their fish/shrimp/reptile and tell them where they can sell it to someone for cash.
> 
> I also randomly 'accidently' open those top thingies with my ass when I'm bending over to look at stuff and walking around. It does sound like quite a bother to close it.
> 
> I'm a shit disturber.


That is some visual... the ass muscles and ;; Gah.... my head >___<;;; LOL


----------



## AquaNekoMobile

bigfishy said:


> It's so cute till it bites her hand! It does hurt!!!  No snake owner in this world that never got bitten by a snake before!
> 
> Some snakes have fish hook teeth, it's VERY SCARY!!!
> 
> but... a Polypterus endlicheri is a type of fish


Curious but would leather kevlar gloves help?


----------



## blackninja

b.appel13 said:


> Oh dont get me wrong ive seen res being sold less in more PRIVATE LFS which is the big thing. Walk into any big chain and you will more then likely see a tank right near the door with tons of RES atleast in the falls is how it stands.
> 
> We as hobbiests need to understand we are in this hobby for the enjoyment and at some point we need to realize its not worth getting angry or stressed about. People to this day raid ponds for RES. Its a sad but true fact.
> 
> RES are the main issue people talk about and never mention the Iguanas, they are being dismanteled in home just as much as RES.
> 
> Im not bashing anyone for advocating it and good on you, just remember youre suppose to enjoy the hobby so when you start getting angry it becomes not worth it.
> 
> ps...I got bad rep for my other response...haha nice.


I don't think enjoying a hobby and supporting a good cause within the hobby are mutually exclusive. Nor is it possible for example to separate the person's interest in fish only from the rest of his/her views/values expressed because we all take a holistic approach when dealing with people and we should.
As for the bad rep....LoL. I am on some many members ignore list I am tempted to give you a positive rep just to spite them. Naw, I think I will wait and watch you fry a little more before I do that.


----------



## Ciddian

Some snake bites feel like you've been hit with a bat. lol. My snake, when I had her only bit me once. But it was 100% my fault, not paying attention and very close to feeding time.

Their teeth are so sharp, I didn't feel any pain. lol

Tree snakes and some of the bigger guys do have those inverted teeth, gotta be so careful not to jerk your hand back or you'll harm the snake.


----------



## blackninja

AquaNekoMobile said:


> That is some visual... the ass muscles and ;; Gah.... my head >___<;;; LOL





Joeee said:


> I get my revenge, especially at Big Al's. When someone wants to trade something in and they're talking to a manager that I complained to and hasn't done anything, I tell the manager to let me have a minute with the person that wants to trade in their fish/shrimp/reptile and tell them where they can sell it to someone for cash.
> 
> I also randomly 'accidently' open those top thingies with my ass when I'm bending over to look at stuff and walking around. It does sound like quite a bother to close it.
> 
> I'm a shit disturber.


Should we start withholding information on how snakes poo a question asked by a self proclaimed shit disturber primarily for the safety of the snake. It appears his sphincter muscles are well developed to flap at will but a snakes thingie may not withstand his probing or whatever method he employs to disturb it nor do I believe it will be an enjoyable experience for the poor creature. There should be limits to how much one is allowed to enjoy his hobby. LoL.


----------



## b.appel13

Ciddian said:


> Some snake bites feel like you've been hit with a bat. lol. My snake, when I had her only bit me once. But it was 100% my fault, not paying attention and very close to feeding time.
> 
> Their teeth are so sharp, I didn't feel any pain. lol
> 
> Tree snakes and some of the bigger guys do have those inverted teeth, gotta be so careful not to jerk your hand back or you'll harm the snake.


Oh when I kept reptiles id get bit all the time, Not because of lack of care or mistreated animals, Just confused animals. Either I was holding a female and forgot to wash my hands before going to the males tank or feeding and forgetting to wash hands, All my fault. Its part of the hobby in my eyes.

At the end of the day we all have to do what we can to make us happy and feel good. For some thats going on out to protect animals, others (like myself) Like to know my animals are kept in perfect care and health and when I get offspring I sell to those who can show me they are knowledgeable, I use to request the buyer to educate me on the said reptile as well as provide picture of the enclosure, sure they could show me a picture and then not end up putting the animal in there, but there is only so much I could do.

I dont see anyone in the wrong here. We are all right in the way we approch this hobby. 
went from 13 to -4 rep today
Love this site


----------



## bigfishy

Just having a little fun 

Don't forget about BIG FISHES!!!!

They were selling these at Big Als Mississauga for $199 each a few months ago


----------



## Joeee

bigfishy said:


> Just having a little fun
> 
> Don't forget about BIG FISHES!!!!
> 
> They were selling these at Big Als Mississauga for $199 each a few months ago


I just googled that shit and it's like a huge sock.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_48RaacSCagE/SjszgCxv_EI/AAAAAAAAAEQ/NclFFddipIA/s400/080326_arapaima_1.jpg

With a species like giga, you sort of already know they get huge. The species name still isn't as badass as;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crikey_steveirwini


----------



## blackninja

b.appel13 said:


> Oh when I kept reptiles id get bit all the time, Not because of lack of care or mistreated animals, Just confused animals. Either I was holding a female and forgot to wash my hands before going to the males tank or feeding and forgetting to wash hands, All my fault. Its part of the hobby in my eyes.
> 
> At the end of the day we all have to do what we can to make us happy and feel good. For some thats going on out to protect animals, others (like myself) Like to know my animals are kept in perfect care and health and when I get offspring I sell to those who can show me they are knowledgeable, I use to request the buyer to educate me on the said reptile as well as provide picture of the enclosure, sure they could show me a picture and then not end up putting the animal in there, but there is only so much I could do.
> 
> I dont see anyone in the wrong here. We are all right in the way we approch this hobby.
> went from 13 to -4 rep today
> Love this site


You are showing your serious side, a caring, sensitive and responsible animal lover. I hope your rep score gets better.


----------



## b.appel13

blackninja said:


> You are showing your serious side, a caring, sensitive and responsible animal lover. I hope your rep score gets better.


Meh fuck the rep dont bother me. Just shows how naive people are on this forum. Someone differs with them in a civil way and they get their panties in a twist.

That this days society though so just roll with it.

There are some people doing great things like the RESq but even they see its a ever loosing battle. You can rehome 3 and recieve 10. They have had to turn them away since it was taking too much money to basically throw away. For some its a passion they would spend their life savings on the saving of animals, But for me, im 23 with 2 kids and a wife, At the end of the day I have larger responsibilites then making sure I pick up other peoples mess and lack of knowledge.

Is that reason to get your panties in a twist and bad rep me saying im rude and wrong......I guess so.

HAHAHAHA MORE BAD REP, and to the most recent one....I havent been banned ever so how could I be banned again.

LOL its no wonder I hate the people in toronto, All your shit dont stink eh?


----------



## blackninja

b.appel13 said:


> Meh fuck the rep dont bother me. Just shows how naive people are on this forum. Someone differs with them in a civil way and they get their panties in a twist.
> 
> That this days society though so just roll with it.
> 
> There are some people doing great things like the RESq but even they see its a ever loosing battle. You can rehome 3 and recieve 10. They have had to turn them away since it was taking too much money to basically throw away. For some its a passion they would spend their life savings on the saving of animals, But for me, im 23 with 2 kids and a wife, At the end of the day I have larger responsibilites then making sure I pick up other peoples mess and lack of knowledge.
> 
> Is that reason to get your panties in a twist and bad rep me saying im rude and wrong......I guess so.
> 
> HAHAHAHA MORE BAD REP, and to the most recent one....I havent been banned ever so how could I be banned again.
> 
> LOL its no wonder I hate the people in toronto, All your shit dont stink eh?


I can see you are a young father with a young family. Your days of sniffing out or reacting to knotted panties should be behind you. It just occurred to me the more you show your love for animals the less your affections grow for people. In a warped sense your peoples skills are giving way to some moral justification for your disillusionment. But you are not so alone so take comfort....there are many more animal lovers who are haters too, even though their rep scores may not reflect it.
When your sinuses clear you will feel better about Torontonians. LoL.


----------



## b.appel13

blackninja said:


> I can see you are a young father with a young family. Your days of sniffing out or reacting to knotted panties should be behind you. It just occurred to me the more you show your love for animals the less your affections grow for people. In a warped sense your peoples skills are giving way to some moral justification for your disillusionment. But you are not so alone so take comfort....there are many more animal lovers who are haters too, even though their rep scores may not reflect it.
> When your sinuses clear you will feel better about Torontonians. LoL.


Oh I understand but has anything I said up until that point be ban worthy? Are the people here that rediculous that someone challenges their opinon so they have to dispose of that person so they can have a conformed group of people. Its rediculous.


----------



## b.appel13

But back on topic here, 

Im sure this forum could get a few people together and create some flyer and or cards to handout to LFS not only to inform the folks working there but also inform customers. 

Once you get the big chains on our side you will see the fight ending and MUCH less RES being sold and being sold under false understandings.


----------



## PACMAN

b.appel13 said:


> But back on topic here,
> 
> Im sure this forum could get a few people together and create some flyer and or cards to handout to LFS not only to inform the folks working there but also inform customers.
> 
> Once you get the big chains on our side you will see the fight ending and MUCH less RES being sold and being sold under false understandings.


Good Idea!


----------



## blackninja

b.appel13 said:


> But back on topic here,
> 
> Im sure this forum could get a few people together and create some flyer and or cards to handout to LFS not only to inform the folks working there but also inform customers.
> 
> Once you get the big chains on our side you will see the fight ending and MUCH less RES being sold and being sold under false understandings.


That is an excellent idea. You are what we call an activist. I was once advised on another forum You can catch more flies with honey than vinegar. Sounded practical at that time but it also implied the person saw the members as flies which to me was a lot more disrespectful than my original opinion of them. I followed my instincts and moved over here.
I am sure there are many here who will support your idea. Might call for a new thread though.


----------



## Ciddian

b.appel, would you stop pulling the bs TO people card if someone says something you don't like here?

Have you been banned yet? Nope, but keep insulting people on the forum and you will be. I am just trying to be clear here.



> 1. First and foremost, this is hobby website dedicated to aquaria, fish and aquarium plants. Please keep your posts on topic. There is a general discussion forum for off topic issues.
> 
> 2. Petty politics are stricky prohibited. This is a hobby forum, not a place for people to play out personal attacks with other members. *IF YOU HAVE PERSONAL DISAGREEMENTS WITH ANY MEMBERS, LEAVE IT OFF THE FORUM.*
> 
> 3. Debate is always welcome here at GTAA. Just make sure you address the point and *DO NOT MAKE PERSONAL ATTACKS*. The only way people will learn from the debate is to keep the debate about the topic at hand.
> 
> 4. *DO NOT POST PERSONAL INFORMATION*. Do not post your personal information (addresses, email addresses) in the public forum. Do not post personal information of other people without their consent. If you do you will immediately be given two strikes and potentially a 1 week suspension. Privacy is the right of every member on here, so think before you post.


I have a daughter of my own so I agree. I've taken in two turtles myself and that would be my max. Sorry if I felt that some people were critiquing my efforts for turtle knowledge but my goal is to not save them all. I know I have to be realistic.

Refresh yourself with the rules guys. I think a good handful of people should read them. I am not a strict person at all but I my daughter is crawling now and I can't be here 24-7 to babysit you guys too.

The point system has been here for *years* and noone even knew or bitched and moaned about it. Maybe take the points and try to improve yourself and how you act here.


----------



## b.appel13

Ciddian said:


> b.appel, would you stop pulling the bs TO people card? Have you been banned yet? Nope, but keep insulting people on the forum and you will be. I am just trying to be clear here.


How about pm Next time...thanks.

So who wants to work on a flyer or cards? Im in the falls so we could hit a wide radius of stores.

If people are interested start a new thread and we can get the ball rolling, I dont have the software or id start the thread.


----------



## Ciddian

then people woulnt seem to think i am doing anything. 

but sure. np


----------



## dl88dl

Ciddian said:


> then people woulnt seem to think i am doing anything.
> 
> but sure. np


Hey Cid, the mods on this forum are doing a great job much better than most other forums


----------



## ryno1974

Sorry boys and girls, didnt mean to upset all of the GTA with this thread - I was just venting about one isolated incident in Kitchener on a Saturday afternoon! who would have thought my observation would stir so much emotion.

And for the record my daughter and I would keep rescuing animals forever if fit werent for my wife telling me when it was time to stop. God bless a practical woman


----------



## Ciddian

Hehehe Ryno, thank goodness I have a similar fiance.. :3

Its okay.. its the life of the forum I guess.


----------



## blackninja

b.appel13 said:


> How about pm Next time...thanks.
> 
> So who wants to work on a flyer or cards? Im in the falls so we could hit a wide radius of stores.
> 
> If people are interested start a new thread and we can get the ball rolling, I dont have the software or id start the thread.


I would have liked to start a new thread where members couldn post their informative banners for circulation. But I think those ideallic causes takes a backstage to what was printed today in the papers about our own survival on this planet. Stephen Hawking a famed physicist is quoted as saying *"the Earth is doomed and mankind should flee to space."* It is not the way the end of days was prophesied with some crude interpretation of events. It is our very own contemporary world renown scientist/physicist Stephen Hawking famous for explaining the origin of the universe from the Big Bang and Black Holes theories.Its arrivederci bro.


----------



## BettaBeats

Mom doesn't know how to stop her kids and teach them lessons that you don't always get what you want.


----------



## blackninja

BettaBeats said:


> Mom doesn't know how to stop her kids and teach them lessons that you don't always get what you want.


So true. That is why they need Dads.


----------

