# absolute beginner with 10g set up needs help



## junta (Feb 16, 2008)

Hello

Absolute beginner here! I would really appreciate your help. Here is my 10g start up operation:










I think I am going to stick with cold water and fancy goldfish for now. I know that those 3 goldfish (if I manage to keep them healthy...) will grow enormously - I fully intend to get a larger tank after a year - I need to see that they survive the summer (I do not have air conditioning, and I am worried about hot summer days).

At this point the 3 fish are tiny, and they seem to be doing fine. Again, I fully intend to go up to an ~50g tank after a year.

I have got two AquaClear 20 filters (one with sponge, carbon, and bio-stones, and the second with sponge and two ammonia removers) working full capacity in there, and my tank seems to have stabilzed - the water is crystal clear, and no odd behaviour from the fish. I am doing 20% weekly water changes.

Here are my beginner's questions:

- I am using AquaPlus for getting rid of chlorine, etc. - how long do I have to wait before using the water after treating it with AquaPlus?

- For food TetraFin. I know that this is not a good quality food for goldfish. What brand(s) would you recommend?

- I was able to get rid of 'ick' successfully during the second week. If I do not let any organic/live stuff in there (worms, shrimp, plants, more fish, etc.), there is no chance for another breakout, is there?

I would appreciate your advice about anything else I should keep an eye on.

Thank you very much

Cheers!


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## Brian (Mar 14, 2006)

They will outgrow that tank in a matter of months. You can use the water right away after treating with AquaPlus.

And you need a lot better filtration


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## junta (Feb 16, 2008)

Hi Brian

Thanks for the quick reply.

When you say, a matter of months, are we talking 2-3 months, or 9-10 months?

And could you please elaborate on what you mean by better filtration? The two AquaClears I have are rated for 5-15g tanks each - let us say they are good for 10g each. So I have double the filtration capacity - is this not good enough for goldfish?

I kind of like these filters - they are simple enough to deal with and clean, and because I have two, there is less chance of an accidental new cycle.

At this point at least, I would rather not go all out and buy more expensive gear.


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## Brian (Mar 14, 2006)

Goldfish are really messy and they will create a lot of crap for AC's to handle. For instance, Katalyst (a member on this forum) is really big into goldfish and she has 40x the filtration her tank needs. So on her 40gal she has 4000gph filtration.

A matter of months is 2-3 months, every single goldfish I;ve had tripled in size in a matter of months 

You can house them there for a couple months in that tank MAYBE but you will definately need to upgrade before the summer.


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## junta (Feb 16, 2008)

O.K. that is faster than I thought. In that case waiting would be cruel.

Any store recommendations for tanks? I live around Dundas West and Bloor. There is one place I spotted around Dundas West and Keele, but I have not been in the store yet.


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## Brian (Mar 14, 2006)

You can go to www.pricenetwork.ca and go to the classifieds.

You can find tanks for just 1$ per gallon!


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## Pablo (Mar 27, 2006)

You have been grossly mislead my friend.

1) FANCY goldfish
http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/images/calico_bubbleeye.jpg
http://www.aquariumfish.net/images_01/oranda_red_and_black.jpg
http://petsplusfish.com/catalog/images/Both_Fancy Goldfish.jpg

do best in warm water (ie, approximately 77/78 ferenheit). you NEED a heater. Now.

REGULAR goldfish
http://www.dkimages.com/discover/previews/746/95310.JPG

do best in cooler water.

2) SIZE wise, if you take proper care, feed a balanced super high quality diet, change water every 3-7 days, etc, you can expect those fish to grow to seven inches each in much much less than one year.

Your tank is adequate for two months max, after which you will, realistically, require a 90Gal to grow those fish to their maximum size of approximately 9 or 10 inches and about 400+ grams.

3) OXYGEN/FILTRATION
It is a sad little remnant of the 1980s that people think these are easy fish. They need high quality filtration, lots of water changes, and tonnes of oxygen. A Goldfish uses about 8 times the oxygen of a similar sized african cichlid- therefore you can keep less goldfish / amount of space and you need more oxygen per goldfish.

RECOMMENDATIONS:

bigger tank, high quality filtration, good quality air pump, water changes every seven days, on a regular basis, HEATER (JAGER), thermometer (digital)

FOOD: DAINICHI GOLDFISH FOOD (get it from DARIUS on pricenetwork he is easy to find)

LEARN THE NITROGEN CYCLE!!! You should've cycled your tank, but I think the people who sold you stuff were likely to blame as they are a little slow at most places. 
Go learn about the nitrogen cycle so you don't subject fish to this again.

Also, that water conditioner sux, I recommend Seachem Prime. Its cheaper and better.

You might also want to add a very small amount of salt, about 1 tbsp per five gallons, when you do water changes. Make sure you completely dissolve the salt.


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## junta (Feb 16, 2008)

Hi Pablo

Thank you for your reply.

I looked at smth. like 10-15 websites which had pages on goldfish care, including one with (commercial) 'how to' videos, and none of them mentioned anything about a heater for goldfish ("goldfish are cold water fish..." "how to set up a cold water tank..." etc.) This one, for example recommends 65 to 75 Fahrenheit for fantails (I think that is the kind I have):

http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97350

With all due respect, it looks like I am going to need to refer to sources with academic/regulatory credentials on this.

I do not see myself buying a tank over 55g. That would simply be inconvenient within my living space. Worst case scenario, I would have to give up one fish for adoption. If I go with a 55g tank, I will probably go with two AquaClear 70s, and add an airpump/airstone.

Cheers


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## Brian (Mar 14, 2006)

You can keep them in a 55gal if you want as long as you put a strong filter on it such as an Eheim 2215 or higher and do regular water changes.


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## Ciddian (Mar 15, 2006)

I have never heard of that temperature thing either.... do you have any sources pablo?

Junta i really like the look of your tank


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## junta (Feb 16, 2008)

Hey Ciddian

'Design' is not exactly my thing (I find myself dressing up instead of down on Fridays at work - the safety of 'compliance'), and I have been warned about live plants and goldfish; so what you get as a result is my unimaginative bare-bones tank.

I can just imagine how my questions and 'enthusiasm' about my start up must sound like. Oh, well!

Thank you for the encouragement.

Cheers.

Two of my hobbies meet here: photography and fishing - that little pier is a good place for going for sunfish at High Park...


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## Brian (Mar 14, 2006)

Nice... I don't think I remember seeing the pier look as nice as that


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## Pablo (Mar 27, 2006)

Ciddian said:


> I have never heard of that temperature thing either.... do you have any sources pablo?
> 
> Junta i really like the look of your tank


Goldfish Freak from Price Network kept his at 77.

Apparently this is what most master japanese breeders recommend...


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## Pablo (Mar 27, 2006)

Brian said:


> You can keep them in a 55gal if you want as long as you put a strong filter on it such as an Eheim 2215 or higher and do regular water changes.


quote:after which you will, realistically, require a 90Gal to grow those fish to their maximum size of approximately 9 or 10 inches and about 400+ grams.

So yes you can keep them in a 55, but they wont grow as big.


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## Brian (Mar 14, 2006)

:S I've grown aros to 2 ft. long in a 35 gal with over-filtration... whereas some people can't even grow them that large in a 180?


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## Tabatha (Dec 29, 2007)

junta said:


> Two of my hobbies meet here: photography and fishing - that little pier is a good place for going for sunfish at High Park...


That is a breathtaking photo, perhaps you should move this talent from hobby to profession! WOW!


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## Ciddian (Mar 15, 2006)

definate wow.....

Geeze i have never been there... Bad me.


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