# Black algae. >_<;;



## AquaNeko (Jul 26, 2009)

Ok, now I have read that not much touches it at this site but they only list fish. Now I'm wondering if shrimp will touch it as well? Say ghost shrimp or red cherry shrimp?

Thanks in advance.


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Not particularly. BBA is best dealt with swiftly with excel treatments before it gets out of hand.


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## AquaNeko (Jul 26, 2009)

What about snails? What snails would attack it? I'm very careful with snails because I keep finding and plucking snails out of my tank every other day when I already took out like 25. That small visible sac of eggs I saw before of like 6-7 eggs... haha... the rest must have been hidden in the tank or on the sponge filter or something. 

Argh.. I was thinking of getting Edward Scissorhands on the BBA but not sure if that is a good idea and if it would kill the plant.


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Snails are ineffective too. I find the best thing is excel - double dose everyday for a week and you'll see visible improvements.


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## AquaNeko (Jul 26, 2009)

ameekplec. said:


> Snails are ineffective too. I find the best thing is excel - double dose everyday for a week and you'll see visible improvements.


Which EXCEL product should I be using? How does EXCEL remove the BBA? What is the property that causes the reaction to cause the BBA to recede?


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)




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## gucci17 (Oct 11, 2007)

you can take a chance with hydrogen peroxide...

google bba hydrogen peroxide


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## Mr Fishies (Sep 21, 2007)

gucci17 said:


> you can take a chance with hydrogen peroxide...
> 
> google bba hydrogen peroxide


There was a thread on this recently on the Plantedtank:

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/algae/93074-hydrogen-peroxide-algae-control.html

It works very well and cheaper than Excel. As pointed out in the thread, it's important to determine what's leading to the algae or it will be back...this only treats the symptom.


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## gucci17 (Oct 11, 2007)

I've used this method before and I can say it works but like Mr Fishies said, you really need to get to the source. You don't want to have to keep doing this over and over. Best to figure out what is wrong or unbalanced with your setup.


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## jewel-stavroula (Jan 11, 2008)

I would definitely be careful with the Excel. For any real results, you're supposed to double (or even triple) dose it. On that note, have you read the MSDS?! It is frightening. I would recommend taking a more natural approach-- Why don't you try a couple of flagfish?


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## AquaNeko (Jul 26, 2009)

jewel-stavroula said:


> I would definitely be careful with the Excel. For any real results, you're supposed to double (or even triple) dose it. On that note, have you read the MSDS?! It is frightening. I would recommend taking a more natural approach-- Why don't you try a couple of flagfish?


Jewel,

Flagfish? Do you have any experience with them?


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## AquaNeko (Jul 26, 2009)

gucci17 said:


> I've used this method before and I can say it works but like Mr Fishies said, you really need to get to the source. You don't want to have to keep doing this over and over. Best to figure out what is wrong or unbalanced with your setup.


Well I have http://gtaaquaria.com/forum/showpost.php?p=76639&postcount=13 in my tank right now. The crypts well only one seems to still be holding out while most have IIRC from ym web reading 'crypt melt'. The BBA is on the Java Fern and Repens roots and some of the leaves. I also have http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myplants/212-Usteriana_Cryptocoryne_usteriana.html which does not have the BBA but surface green spot algae. I do believe that is the right plant as it is red-brown and thriving with roots pointing up looking stable. I also have some I think duckweed or watermoss. Can't tell. They are like 2-3 small leaf floaters on the top of the tank with the rest of the plants that are floating right now.

They are all floating right now and about 1/2 from the lid of the tank which uses 2 x CFL spiral 6500k temp lights (I think 13W each). The java moss is unaffected by the BBA.


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## gucci17 (Oct 11, 2007)

AquaNeko said:


> Well I have http://gtaaquaria.com/forum/showpost.php?p=76639&postcount=13 in my tank right now. The crypts well only one seems to still be holding out while most have IIRC from ym web reading 'crypt melt'. The BBA is on the Java Fern and Repens roots and some of the leaves. I also have http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myplants/212-Usteriana_Cryptocoryne_usteriana.html which does not have the BBA but surface green spot algae. I do believe that is the right plant as it is red-brown and thriving with roots pointing up looking stable. I also have some I think duckweed or watermoss. Can't tell. They are like 2-3 small leaf floaters on the top of the tank with the rest of the plants that are floating right now.
> 
> They are all floating right now and about 1/2 from the lid of the tank which uses 2 x CFL spiral 6500k temp lights (I think 13W each). The java moss is unaffected by the BBA.


If the BBA is not EVERYWHERE then you can try dipping the infected plants in a HP or diluted bleach/water solution. Try to remove plant leaves with BBA on them as well. You're right, crypts do melt easily.

Otherwise, stick to spot treatments with the HP.


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## AquaNeko (Jul 26, 2009)

gucci17 said:


> If the BBA is not EVERYWHERE then you can try dipping the infected plants in a HP or diluted bleach/water solution. Try to remove plant leaves with BBA on them as well. You're right, crypts do melt easily.
> 
> Otherwise, stick to spot treatments with the HP.


How long should I dip them in the bleach solution? Also at what ratio should my treatment solution be?


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## gucci17 (Oct 11, 2007)

1 part bleach to 19 parts water.

Dip times depend on the type of plant 2-4min each treatment. 

Make sure to have a solution of overdose dechlorinated water to wash off any residual trace of bleach.

Just know that some plants won't make it and may turn to mush.


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

I would not do longer than 30 seconds for some more sensitive plants. I would not even exceed 3 minutes for the hardiest of plants.


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## gucci17 (Oct 11, 2007)

Darkblade48 said:


> I would not do longer than 30 seconds for some more sensitive plants. I would not even exceed 3 minutes for the hardiest of plants.


Anthony is right, to be honest...sensitive plants will most likely not survive at all. You could always try dipping in a hydrogen peroxide solution.


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## fish (Dec 1, 2009)

I soaked my plants that had it for a day, about 30 mls in a 2.5 gallon bucket and it killed it. Peroxide at that dilution is also safe for tank use.


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## Mr Fishies (Sep 21, 2007)

*+1!* (bold on purpose) for Hydrogen Peroxide dips or sprays.

H2O2 will be a much safer route with any plants, hardy or not. I spray undiluted H2O2 on plants and leave for 30-60 seconds to kill off algae etc. I've not lost a plant this way yet. If it doesn't work and kill off all the algae, you can spot treat H2O2 in your tank using a syringe - the same cannot be said for bleach.

I gave up using bleach after a few plant purchases never even made it into my after a dip in water that was even less than 20:1 (water:bleach), more like 30:1. Some plants are just not going to survive bleach at a concentration strong enough to kill off algae. Egeria najas/densa will actually hiss and bubble after a dip in even weak bleach solutions...then turn to mush. IME, mosses don't fare well either but will survive and regrow if not completely toasted.

Harder to obtain (have to go to a pharmacy or similar) but also very effective is potassium permangante.


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## AquaNeko (Jul 26, 2009)

gucci17 said:


> Anthony is right, to be honest...sensitive plants will most likely not survive at all. You could always try dipping in a hydrogen peroxide solution.


With the hydrogen peroxide what is the ratio to water and the treatment times?



> Mr.Fishes
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> ...


How do you spot treat? Does the HP not harm the fish if you released it into the water? On that Pot. Permangante if you go to Walmart and look for the Jungle Labs tablets I saw that ingredient on one of their packagings a few days ago. Forgot what else that actually treats other then BBA.


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## AquaNeko (Jul 26, 2009)

What hydrogen proroxide do you people use? I saw some Life Brand at Shoppers Drugmart but not sure to buy the smallest bottle. I think it was like $2.50 for the smallest bottle. I forgot but I think it said 10% something in it. I could be wrong on that.

Is that ok to use?


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

AquaNeko said:


> How do you spot treat? Does the HP not harm the fish if you released it into the water?


You take the peroxide into a syringe, turn off your filter and any other powerheads, and gently release the peroxide over the algae.

It should not harm the fish, unless you are using a lot. I do not remember the dose, but there is a certain safe limit (will look for this later).



AquaNeko said:


> On that Pot. Permangante if you go to Walmart and look for the Jungle Labs tablets I saw that ingredient on one of their packagings a few days ago. Forgot what else that actually treats other then BBA.


Potassium permanganate is a strong oxidizer that is usually used to disinfect plants before placing them into the aquarium. It should not be added directly to a tank, as it will stain everything purple, and is also harmful to living tissue.

Finally, buying the chemical proper rather than repackaged commercial goods is much cheaper in the long run.



AquaNeko said:


> What hydrogen proroxide do you people use? I saw some Life Brand at Shoppers Drugmart but not sure to buy the smallest bottle. I think it was like $2.50 for the smallest bottle. I forgot but I think it said 10% something in it. I could be wrong on that.
> 
> Is that ok to use?


The hydrogen peroxide you can purchase at the drug store is fine. Buying larger bottles would be more economical (per mL); any extra you can keep in your medicine cabinet for later use (i.e. disinfecting minor cuts).

The hydrogen peroxide you can purchase at the drug store is usually 3%, and maybe 6% if you find the peroxide used for bleaching hair. 30% peroxide also exists, but cannot be bought from drug stores.


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## Mr Fishies (Sep 21, 2007)

I use standard 3% hydrogen peroxide (H2O2) from Shoppers DM or if I am passing by Wallymart a big bottle there is ~2x the size for the same price as Shoppers...but I >hate Wallymart so if you can find it cheap somewhere else go there.

I've gone as high as 3ml/gallon with H2O2 treating a post vacation, brother neglect induced algae infestation with no problems, but I did that with filters running so it dissipates pretty fast. Exposure to light makes it break down faster too (why it's in brown bottles) and when it does it surrenders oxygen molecules and becomes H2O...pretty safe byproduct.

There a plenty of horror stories about people destroying tanks and killing livestock with it, but I can't contribute to the negative side of the H2O2 discussion. In fact, there are articles published in the NA Journal of Aquaculture on it's use to control fungus in fish eggs. Link When used carefully it is safe.

BTW: I didn't start with 3ml/gallon, I used slowly increasing amounts over a few days, always observing the fish after treatment and with my finger on the trigger of a water change. Mostly I just use it to spot treat. I have a 10ml syringe and a length of rigid airline tubing so I can hit almost anywhere in the tank without getting my hands wet. If you use a syringe, it also makes it easy to track how much you put in your tank.

DB is right about PP...purely an outside the tank treatment for me in place of bleaching plants.


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## AquaNeko (Jul 26, 2009)

Have not had time to get any peroxide. What I did notice was some ramhorn snails that were starved went after the algae that I cut off some plant leaves and then one small tub of snails I think ate the BBA. 

I'll have to see how the 1/2 cut 2L bottle snails fair on the BBA as I see about 4 puffs of it. Some small clutches of eggs hatched but can't see them so hopefully it'll attack it then I can use that as a method of cleaning it in the future.


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## Plaid (Nov 10, 2008)

If your snails eat BBA, then I'll give you 500$ to exclusive marketing rights.

Unfortunately for you, and for me as well, no known aquarium species eats BBA. It's nasty stuff. If your snails ate it in a cup, it is possible that they were starving and would have even eaten plywood, were it available.

Mr. Barr of the Barr Report stands by the idea that unstable CO2 levels promote BBA growth. Unstable, not low. If your tank has no CO2 injection, or even shakey DIY injection, than each water change SPIKES the CO2 level, confusing plants. Healthy plants discourage algae growth by secreting allelopathic hormones.

Bottom line: Get pressurized CO2, which is inexpensive, or spot treat with Peroxide. Excel is vile stuff, but I have found it profoundly useful in the war against terroralgae.

Good luck,
Wes


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## shanexu (Jul 3, 2009)

not sure about the other users, my tank has a strand of BBA (tiny spots on my log) but my amano shrimps keep it in check. you will probably need quite a few of them around, and they do prefer fish food to algae so make sure your fish eats with no left overs =) also get fast growing plants to compete with algae for food, that way they don't spread


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## AquaNeko (Jul 26, 2009)

For that sryernige do I need it WITH OR WITHOUT A NEEDLE?

How long does it take for the BBA to go away after I give it the needle treatment or soaking? 6/12/24hrs? X days?


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

It doesn't really matter if you use one with or without a needle.

BBA will usually start to turn pink, then white; this is a sign of it dying. It usually takes a few days after the H2O2 treatment.


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## AquaNeko (Jul 26, 2009)

Darkblade48 said:


> It doesn't really matter if you use one with or without a needle.
> 
> BBA will usually start to turn pink, then white; this is a sign of it dying. It usually takes a few days after the H2O2 treatment.


Awesome. I got some of the peroxide but the needle thing I could not find at the store. CSR's told me to talk with the phramacy and it took some convincing it wasn't for drug use for them to sell me the ones without a needle on it. Toughest 25cent sell I've ever had to do.   They kept asking what it's for and when I said for algae they looked at each other.


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

AquaNeko said:


> CSR's told me to talk with the phramacy and it took some convincing it wasn't for drug use for them to sell me the ones without a needle on it. Toughest 25cent sell I've ever had to do.   They kept asking what it's for and when I said for algae they looked at each other.


You should see it when I ask them for a bottle of 99% isopropanol for my models


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## AquaNeko (Jul 26, 2009)

Darkblade48 said:


> You should see it when I ask them for a bottle of 99% isopropanol for my models


Models? You mean model kits? I forgot to mention I had to use the laptop pointed to this thread to convince the head pharmacist to give permission to the other pharmacist to sell me the .25cent needle less syringe. They're pretty hesitant to give it out thinking the worst.

Sometimes a cheaper alternative method while saving a lot of money from aquarium specific products (sometimes hellishly over priced for something) leads to many other looks and questioning from the location you're buying from.

I was thinking of DIYing my own pop can stove and on the hunt for 99% isoproponol or denatured alchohal so at least I know I'm not the only one with odd looks when telling them what you're doing with it. LOL.


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## AquaNeko (Jul 26, 2009)

Plaid said:


> If your snails eat BBA, then I'll give you 500$ to exclusive marketing rights.
> 
> Unfortunately for you, and for me as well, no known aquarium species eats BBA. It's nasty stuff. If your snails ate it in a cup, it is possible that they were starving and would have even eaten plywood, were it available.
> 
> ...


Ok after a while having a few bottles cut up as experiements the Repen Wigilla something red stem plants I have that was infested with BBA had like 20% reduction of BBA on them and the newly born ramhorn snails got to like visible ~1mm size. I have not seen any more improvements and I never fed those snails at all so I take it they ate some BBA out of survival then stopped as I am not seeing any more eating of it after like a week of idling in the small container. Perhaps I'm just lucky but definately not a solution unless you force the ramhorns into total strvation in an isolated container then it seems they'll eat about 20% then that's it.

I just did a 1 part 3% h.peroxide to 10 parts water soaking about 6-7 mins and 2 mins on a small stem cut of the Repens.

I've not seen any of the BBA turning pink yet. How many hours do I need to wait before I see them turning pink? I did this about 2hrs ago (~6pm).


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## AquaNeko (Jul 26, 2009)

Tried the peroxide method. Dunked, waited 5 mins with 2 swishes in the water to get good mix of the chems all on the plant but the BBA is still there. >_<;; I thoguht I had to wait for a few days for the BBA to turn pink and fall off. It looked like it was very light pink highlights before about half a day later when I checked it so I thoguth I'd give it time. Been a week and looks like the BBA has recovered from pink to black-brown now.   

I've even taken the plant out which I have in the sytrafoam cup with holes and eye dropped pure undiluted peroxide on the BBA and waiting about 2 mins then put it back in the tank. Days later nada. How does peroxide smell like anyways? Perhaps the bottleI got was fille dwith water or something? Is there some household item I can do a test on to confirm I have peroxide here? Like er.. example with vinegar but if you want to be sure add some baking soda and you know for sure you've got some reaction to confirm its that as a secondary confirmation to the first smell test.

That is what I'm looking for here a first and secondary testing.


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

AquaNeko said:


> How does peroxide smell like anyways? Perhaps the bottleI got was fille dwith water or something? Is there some household item I can do a test on to confirm I have peroxide here? Like er.. example with vinegar but if you want to be sure add some baking soda and you know for sure you've got some reaction to confirm its that as a secondary confirmation to the first smell test.
> 
> That is what I'm looking for here a first and secondary testing.


It is, in general, a bad idea to smell chemicals, as it can be quite dangerous. I certainly would not want to smell hydrochloric acid, especially if it was 12M. The same could be said for fuming nitric acid, etc.

Hydrogen peroxide has no smell. The store you bought it from will not fill it with water.

If you want to confirm you have some peroxide, pour some on a cut the next time you get one. It will bubble.


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## AquaNeko (Jul 26, 2009)

Darkblade48 said:


> It is, in general, a bad idea to smell chemicals, as it can be quite dangerous. I certainly would not want to smell hydrochloric acid, especially if it was 12M. The same could be said for fuming nitric acid, etc.
> 
> Hydrogen peroxide has no smell. The store you bought it from will not fill it with water.
> 
> If you want to confirm you have some peroxide, pour some on a cut the next time you get one. It will bubble.


Aye.. sorry had to be said here 'I'm meeeeeellllllttttinnnggggg' to the bubble thing in the voice of the old Wizard of Oz witch voice.


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## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

If I may play devils advocate for black algae- unless it is snuffing your plants out, it is fantastic stuff. The healthiest fish I have ever seen live in tanks covered in black algae. I used to purposely leave my lights on for too long and use rocks and lighting I specifically knew promoted it in my african rockscapes. It has two drawbacks:

Most people don't like the look and it will snuff out your plants

And the following benefits:

Removes phosphates and nitrate in a non planted tank

Biological exclusion- as it covers entire areas of rock the algae takes up a lot of resources that could otherwise be used by non-beneficial bacteria or funguses to take a foothold

Critters- because it is thick and bushy there are a lot of little critters that like to live in this stuff, adding to the biodiversity and health of your tank and providing great fry food, as well as hours of fun rooting through for your bottomfeeders.


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## bae (May 11, 2007)

You can test your peroxide on a piece of meat, or especially, liver. Just about all animal tissue has the enzyme (catalase) that breaks it into oxygen and water. But if it's turning your algae pink, well, water won't do that, right?


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## AquaNeko (Jul 26, 2009)

bae said:


> You can test your peroxide on a piece of meat, or especially, liver. Just about all animal tissue has the enzyme (catalase) that breaks it into oxygen and water. But if it's turning your algae pink, well, water won't do that, right?


It did not turn it pink. It only had a very light pink highlight. Think like a solar eclipse the middle is black and the outside is a very light thin glow of color. That is why I was thinking perhaps the product I got may have been diluted or something.


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## AquaNeko (Jul 26, 2009)

> RE: Blackbeard algae clip this post email this post what is this?
> see most clipped and recent clippings
> 
> Posted by bill_ftmyers_fl 9b-10 SW Florida (My Page) on Mon, Feb 2, 09 at 21:38
> ...


From here (last post)

What I'd like to know is, is it good to drop 1-3mL/gal into the tank? It is mentioned some plants don't take well or survive the dosings. What plants is the user refering to? Can I get a listing of them?

Currently I've dosed 1mL x 10 for the 10 gal.

Thanks.


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