# Plumbing Design Critique



## Jmbret (Nov 6, 2010)

hey guys, what do you think?

Give me the good, the bad and the ugly.


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## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

Drain: Just curious why you are putting ball valves on both. If you are doing a Herbie style O/F, you just need one on the main drain line. The valve should be placed near the end of the drain run of the main drain line and you'll have better luck fine tuning w/a gate valve vs ball valve.

Return: You don't need the second ball valve as you follow the line from the pump. If you are planning it as a flow control to the DT, you are better off opening the ball valve that is split towards the sump.

I would put a true union ball valve at the intake and output. Should you need to service the pump, you don't have to drain the sump to remove it or deal with upstream water trickling back making a mess.

JM2C


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## advanced reef aquatics (Apr 20, 2009)

also get yourself a gate valve for fine adjustment for Herbie, Ball valve is PIA to fine tune.


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## Jmbret (Nov 6, 2010)

wtac said:


> Drain: Just curious why you are putting ball valves on both. If you are doing a Herbie style O/F, you just need one on the main drain line. The valve should be placed near the end of the drain run of the main drain line and you'll have better luck fine tuning w/a gate valve vs ball valve.
> 
> Return: You don't need the second ball valve as you follow the line from the pump. If you are planning it as a flow control to the DT, you are better off opening the ball valve that is split towards the sump.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your reply!

I have adjusted the gate valve lower on the drain line as you recommended.

When you say put a true union ball valve at the intake and output, do you mean for the pump? (as amended in v.3.1?)


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## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

Yes. As mentioned in the other thread, what you have drawn are considered TUBVs by convention. If you make the black sections black lines, then it would be ball valves w/o unions. Not to be nit-picky but so we don't misunderstand what you are trying to build .


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## Jmbret (Nov 6, 2010)

Hey everybody, a quick update!

The two drain lines are 75% complete.

I still need to locate a gate valve 1.5". The only place I found says 3 weeks backorder and $40.

Nothing is glued in yet as I made a mistake and bought underground pvc conduit not pvc potable pipe and will have to swap the pieces out at some point before glue.

Also, I have used 90's it saves lots of space but I have made the joints threaded so the whole thing can come apart for cleaning etc..


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## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

Hmmm...IMHO, you are over thinking this and making it waaaay more work than is should be .

IMHO/E, you don't have to clean the pipes. In my 20+ years being part of this industry and another 10+ as an aquatic enthusiast, never have I had the need to clean out the inner pipes. It is natural when the return pump turns back on that there will be "stuff" flying out. The amount really depends on the nutrient load in the water where a biofilm will form on inner pipe surfaces.

If you are still on the notion of removable pipe sections, use unions vs the threaded "Franken parting". Unions are far easier to re-install (fixed length) and secure from leaks. 

When you "undo" a threaded section, removal and reapplication of teflon tape should be done. Also, the overall pipe length will change IF you don't "seat" the treaded male and female sections the exact same distance apart when you first assembled them.

Technically you don't need the top two fittings on the second pic. You will have a union there to the bulkhead.

I would use PVC vs ABS, especially the 90's. PVC can hold a greater mass should there be a downward force applied to the length of pipe, ie. sag, lose grip of the other end, etc. Also, you don't have to keep in mind which solvent you are using as you are putting it all together (ABS-PVC and PVC). 

There's ~15-$20 difference vs the two ABS fittings per section vs using unions (1.5") but if you are going to be that meticulous about cleaning the pipes, the cost difference may be worth it when it comes to reassembly.

JM2C/E


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## Jmbret (Nov 6, 2010)

wtac said:


> Hmmm...IMHO, you are over thinking this and making it waaaay more work than is should be .
> 
> IMHO/E, you don't have to clean the pipes. In my 20+ years being part of this industry and another 10+ as an aquatic enthusiast, never have I had the need to clean out the inner pipes. It is natural when the return pump turns back on that there will be "stuff" flying out. The amount really depends on the nutrient load in the water where a biofilm will form on inner pipe surfaces.
> 
> ...


I do appreciate your input!

The issue here comes from the fact that I may be moving in 6-12 months.
I was planning to use unions for the drains from the bulkheads but the
bulkheads are threaded on the inside and so having the two pieces on top means I can unscrew the plumbing all the way so when the tank gets moved I don't have to raise it up on blocks. Removable sections for the drains at least makes sense to me.

Thanks for pointing out the re application of teflon tape! I had no idea about that I always thought providing the joint didn't get wet then you could screw and unscrew without re applying!

I am meeting with my friend who is a plumber on Friday and will work out more of the logistics. I plan to slope the horizontal section of the drain which is about 32" by about 1" per foot to allow the system to purge air. In the event of a restart from power outage full siphon should be achieved. With a regular 90 elbow (without these extra pieces for flex) it would be very difficult to get the slope I am looking for.

I will have to keep all this in mind, especially the types of glue/cement needed for the different joints. You are very right!

sigh. I usually over complicate things 

Thanks again for your invaluable feedback!

Jacob


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## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

NP...I'm just here to help 

Use a 1.5" male adapter on the bulkhead and cement the union. 

I wouldn't worry about ideal sloping on the drain in your configuration as long as it isn't sloping upwards . You also have have the other 1.5" emerg drain on a "short run" that can easily handle the flow until the gated drain purges. If you had a 10' horizontal run and a 10' drop for 2000gph...then sloping is important .


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