# i want to go to school



## wngt368 (Oct 4, 2008)

forced ratification lost


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

I want to be paid. I also want to graduate.

I hate you contract faculty.


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## Sameer (Sep 30, 2007)

They are thinking of cancelling summer school now. Oh man I forgot everything that was taught this year. Its gonna be a mess.


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## Mr Fishies (Sep 21, 2007)

I feel for you, my wife was affected or lost time to 3 different strikes (faculty, TA & support/facilities IIRC) when she was there.

I wonder when the last class got out of York without being affected by a strike?


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## twoheadedfish (May 10, 2008)

i didn't think you were at York, ameekplec - you guys are going to lose the whole year, aren't you? god that's awful...


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## Sameer (Sep 30, 2007)

Our semester might get extended into the summer.


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## newbiefishfanatic (Dec 11, 2008)

my father was a teacher and he hated strikes. he agreed with wanting better pay and whatever they were strinking against or for, but he always felt for the students. hed never participate in the strike meetings or anything. its completely the students who suffer. i think there should be another road to go down rather than striking and keeping students from school. dont like strikes one bit.


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## Prodicus (Nov 3, 2008)

At York the chickens are coming home to roost.

The administration substitutes contract positions for faculty positions
thereby exploiting underemployed academics and cheating students
of having teachers with active research programs.

I feel sorry for students, contract faculty, and teaching assistants,
but I have no doubt who bears the responsibility.



ameekplec. said:


> I want to be paid. I also want to graduate.
> 
> I hate you contract faculty.


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## twoheadedfish (May 10, 2008)

Sameer said:


> Our semester might get extended into the summer.


i hear for three weeks....gonna be tough to cram 3+ months into there....i hope you guys can pull it off. it would really blow to lose that time.

plus the folks on OSAP are going to have another years worth of debt. i know for me that was almost $10, 000 a year....ouchers.


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## Cory (May 2, 2008)

My sister and a number of friends are affected by the strike. It's a shame that the best paid T.A.s in the country feel they need more so badly that they've kept 50,000 students out of school for 2.5 months. I guess in reality though they were just being manipulated by the union bosses who want to give the three units of 3903 a reason to believe that they should still be paying the union bosses' salaries. Hopefully McGuinty will step up to the plate and legislate them back to work but considering how much of his vote is union based I don't see that happening. I didn't go to York myself, but I'm still glad I've already graduated.


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## Sameer (Sep 30, 2007)

York TAs get paid $60/hour while UofT TA get paid half that.


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## wngt368 (Oct 4, 2008)

Lol one of my TA's claimed that that was not enough and she had to go find a part time job???


I have no idea what she is thinking...


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## Prodicus (Nov 3, 2008)

Have you compared the rates of scholarship funding? If you have a full scholarship, TA money is gravy. York prefers to offer work instead of scholarships, squeezing what they can out of grad students and allowing them to have larger classes with fewer faculty.

York is the university equivalent of a puppy mill.



Sameer said:


> York TAs get paid $60/hour while UofT TA get paid half that.


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## wngt368 (Oct 4, 2008)

Prodicus said:


> Have you compared the rates of scholarship funding? If you have a full scholarship, TA money is gravy. York prefers to offer work instead of scholarships, squeezing what they can out of grad students and allowing them to have larger classes with fewer faculty.
> 
> York is the university equivalent of a puppy mill.


Why should the school provide full scholarships for people to work? They should be happy they have a job, they are just a bunch of greedy individuals who want more. It is like people working at mcdonalds complaining that the people at the top make more money then them so they should have a 300% increase in wages.


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## Prodicus (Nov 3, 2008)

I am not saying they should give scholarships or even have graduate 
schools, for that matter. What I am saying is that if you want to compare 
U of A with York, you need to factor that in.

Scholarships are used to attract graduate students, not to pay for "work" or "jobs". I am suggesting that if your graduate students have 
scholarships, then they won't rely on the pay from assistantships, 
and this may explain why U of A can pay less (assuming this is true).

You should also realize that many graduate schools have policies that limit the number hours a graduate student can work. I am not sure if this is the case at York, but I suspect so. A lot of graduate programs don't accept unfunded students, but York does and in my opinion it is to supplement their labour pool.

The McDonalds worker, like the York TA, has a right want more. And York has a right to refuse. But my point is that if York was not so reliant on TAs and contract faculty, they wouldn't be in this situation in the first place. If they had enough full-time faculty, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Now the faculty union, that's another matter....



wngt368 said:


> Why should the school provide full scholarships for people to work? They should be happy they have a job, they are just a bunch of greedy individuals who want more. It is like people working at mcdonalds complaining that the people at the top make more money then them so they should have a 300% increase in wages.


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

It's really the people that don't get scholarships that are the ones complaining. Some grad students (albeit non-science students) as I understand it only get a TA ship as all of their funding. That's about $14000 minus tuition so they have about $9000 to live off for the year including rent, food, transportation, etc etc. They're not exactly well off.

Also, other schools, including U of T, offer TAships for the most part as supplementary funding. York offers it as part of the funding. So while other students may get less funding or get less to TA, they still make more in total. Also, we scholarship holding students get screwed by York anyways. For example, a person at U of T in a similar department, holding a similar award would make about $27000 a year, without having to work as a TA. I get paid less than that and I have to TA.

Really it's a group of dirt poor grad students and poor contract faculty that need to suck it up and accept life. It's the way things are, especially if you are taking more than 6 years to finish your PhDs (many people take a long time, surpassing the funding guarantee from the school of 5 years), or don't do multiple post-docs and get more experience, the reality is that people aren't going to keep funding you to sit on your ass for 8+ years or give you comfortable positions for not climbing all the ropes that all the other tenure-track faculty assistant profs have.

Whatever may be the case, they better hurry up and resolve the situation. As it is, I personally will lose money no matter what happens in the end as the term is "shorter" so I get paid less for doing the same amount of work - and any gains in the contract would be nullified by loss of wages. So either way, no matter what happens, both the school and Union are screwing me.

Oh, and for the students that can't go to classes and live here, it's bad. You guys do lose part of the summer and as a result probably won't be able to get decent summer positions anywhere. And then you have to stay in town longer and rent, etc in the city instead of returning home in april or may.

The school loses out with decreased enrollments next year for both undergrads and grad students, and in generally just looks really bad in the media and in the public eye.

No one wins. Except the dirt poor grad students who get paid more from picketing and being on strike than actually doing their jobs TAing and finishing their degrees.

Needless to say, I am anti-strike, and I hate our union and "leadership".


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Prodicus said:


> You should also realize that many graduate schools have policies that limit the number hours a graduate student can work. I am not sure if this is the case at York, but I suspect so. A lot of graduate programs don't accept unfunded students, but York does and in my opinion it is to supplement their labour pool.
> 
> The McDonalds worker, like the York TA, has a right want more. And York has a right to refuse. But my point is that if York was not so reliant on TAs and contract faculty, they wouldn't be in this situation in the first place. If they had enough full-time faculty, we wouldn't be having this discussion.


Exactly.

Yes, York TAs in actuality are NOT allowed to have other jobs. If found to have other jobs besides their TA ship, their TA ships can be revoked, as well as any funding, and their full time student status.
As for scholarship holders (external) most say that scholarship holders cannot hold other employment other than 10 hours of scholarly-related work (ie TA ships).

York is indeed too reliant on TAs and contract faculty. The number of students is close to that at U of T and UBC, yet the number of faculty is minuscule compared to U of T or UBC.


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## Prodicus (Nov 3, 2008)

I agree with pretty much everything you say ameekplec, except that those dirt poor TAs don't have to suck it up. They have a right to ask for more. But ultimately the lesson to learn is _don't accept unfunded students just so you can have cheap labour._

I would love to see a class-action against York U on behalf of the students.



ameekplec. said:


> It's really the people that don't get scholarships that are the ones complaining. Some grad students (albeit non-science students) as I understand it only get a TA ship as all of their funding. That's about $14000 minus tuition so they have about $9000 to live off for the year including rent, food, transportation, etc etc. They're not exactly well off.
> 
> Also, other schools, including U of T, offer TAships for the most part as supplementary funding. York offers it as part of the funding. So while other students may get less funding or get less to TA, they still make more in total. Also, we scholarship holding students get screwed by York anyways. For example, a person at U of T in a similar department, holding a similar award would make about $27000 a year, without having to work as a TA. I get paid less than that and I have to TA.
> 
> ...


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## hojimoe (Mar 7, 2008)

i'm sorry, but where the heck to I sign up to get a 10% pay raise over 3 years?!?!? wtf that's insane, elementary teachers will end up with like a 6% over 5 years... frankly, YORK should be paying students back for this year, and start fresh in september....no use in rushing work loads onto students. You studied the first two months, and now have had nearly 3 months off. You don't remember what happened in the first two months, and there is no way you need to re-learn something in the following 3, when you have 5 months of re-learning to do essentially.. 

york sucks because they let this BS happen every couple years... TA's/faculty/support staff etc...


stop going to york people!


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Prodicus said:


> I agree with pretty much everything you say ameekplec, except that those dirt poor TAs don't have to suck it up. They have a right to ask for more.


Part of the membership of the union are PhD students who have been at the school for more than 5 years. The school guarantees funding for 5 years, and after that it is up to the student or the supervisor to fund them. Many of them as a result are TAs only, with no other funding. They were funded originally, but because they have been there for so long for one reason or another, they have run out of funding; it's not that the school can't afford to fund them anymore - they've outstayed their allocated funding.


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## Prodicus (Nov 3, 2008)

Depending on what their previous increases have been, that's not outrageous. We've had historically low inflation rates over the last few years, yet you would have had to have a 6% raise over the last 3 years to keep up with inflation, and a 10.5 % increase over the last 5 years to match inflation.

But I agree with you: York should refund students for the year, and students should find a better run university to attend.



hojimoe said:


> i'm sorry, but where the heck to I sign up to get a 10% pay raise over 3 years?!?!? wtf that's insane, elementary teachers will end up with like a 6% over 5 years... frankly, YORK should be paying students back for this year, and start fresh in september....no use in rushing work loads onto students. You studied the first two months, and now have had nearly 3 months off. You don't remember what happened in the first two months, and there is no way you need to re-learn something in the following 3, when you have 5 months of re-learning to do essentially..
> 
> york sucks because they let this BS happen every couple years... TA's/faculty/support staff etc...
> 
> stop going to york people!


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## blossom112 (Mar 19, 2008)

I would have thaught things would have changed in the past 20 years .............................
You need a BIG protest !!!!!!!!


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## characinfan (Dec 24, 2008)

I was contract faculty at York once and I have to say that it is really not a good job at all. The pay would have been reasonable if the resources had also been reasonable. Sharing a windowless office with 4 other contract faculty and a nonfunctional computer, having to wait 3 months to get a library card, having to hand the secretary of the department anything the class needed on paper a minimum of 3 days in advance so that they could outsource the photocopying, etc., made for an environment where there was no incentive to be on campus other than when classes were running -- so office hours became restricted and inconvenient for students. There are inadequate writing centre resources, remedial language classes, etc. for the zillion ESL students who struggle to do the most minimal readings and whose conversational English is next to nonexistent, etc., etc.

Plus, on contract, there was no guarantee of being re-hired (for the same class or another class) from term to term. Aside from the inherent stress of having zero job security, the most time-intensive thing a lecturer must do is to prepare lectures. If you spend countless unpaid hours researching a topic and preparing lectures, especially multimedia lectures, for a new class each time you get hired, your hourly pay approaches the single digits. You must also teach multiple classes per term to earn a living wage. Contrast this with lecturers hired for multi-year contracts or on the tenure track, who not only have less stress about how they will pay their rent in a few months and a higher per-class salary, but can also just tweak existing lecture material as needed from year to year instead of writing it from scratch each time. Tenure-track academic jobs are far from ideal, but contract faculty jobs are way worse. I could go on. . .

I don't know about the TAs, but I sympathize with the *reasons* for the contract faculty going on strike. That said, the majority of contract faculty are not the ones prolonging the strike or making unreasonable demands. The union leadership is far more radical and polarized than the contract faculty they represent. My "striking" friends resent how the union is acting. They are anxious to get back to work.


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## Cory (May 2, 2008)

The thing a lot of people seem to miss with regards to the T.A.s is that they are not really working.. nor do they have real jobs. They are being educated so that they can get real jobs. Being a student is not supposed to pay at all, let alone pay well. I would have loved to have spent 10 hours a week reciting what the professors had said in classes or holding discussions groups with students for $14,000 a year while I was doing my undergraduate degree and frankly, given what 90% of the T.A.s I had did I think I would have been equally qualified to do it without the extra year or three of schooling. 

Even if the T.A.s were paid nothing at all, they are still GETTING something, namely an education and more importantly in today's world, credentials to go on and do whatever it is they want to do later in life. If they are living under the poverty line as they claim then perhaps taking on a graduate degree or TAing wasn't a great choice for an educated person. Or, they could do what I did in university and work 30+ hours a week to pay for whatever they needed. I didn't even have osap and I was self sufficient, my parents raised me to be that way. I worked summers (T.A.s are also allowed to do this) and nearly full time in the winters, took a full course load, and still managed pretty well straight As and admission to law school. 

I understand that grad degrees can be intensive, but it is by no means unpaid labour. Many receive grants for their research, others are T.A.s and the unlucky ones get real jobs and work real hours. Even my spoiled brat little sister is working while she goes to school, although she could never make the claim that she is self sufficient, she's lucky enough to have parents who can support her, which is another reality for many of the T.A.s they are from rich families and really don't need the money. 

What's really sad is that when looking at the recent vote results, only 69% of CUPE 3903's membership deigned to show up at all, and of those only 63% voted against the proposal. Sadder still is that unit 2 (contract faculty) who have the strongest case for being on strike (not to say that I agree with them 100% either) had the lowest percentage of votes against the proposal (59% vs. 62% and 70% in the other two units). If the people with the most legitimate claims are most willing to take the offer what does that say about the other two groups?

All this doesn't even take into account the plight of the 50,000 undergraduates who will lose more money because of this than the 3 units combined. Meanwhile, the union bosses still have their jobs, aren't taking any pay cuts, and keep themselves relevant for another few years until people start questioning why they needed them to begin with again. Unions belong in factories, fields and other labor intensive institutions, not in elitist universities.


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## Prodicus (Nov 3, 2008)

I wouldn't argue on behalf of the TAs, myself. But I still think the university is responsible for the mess.

I found some aspects of this post a little hard to reconcile, though.



Cory said:


> ... I didn't even have osap and I was self sufficient, my parents raised me to be that way....
> 
> Cory Strul
> President - *Fishy Business Aquatic Experts*
> ...


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## hojimoe (Mar 7, 2008)

unions truly do not belong in universities...I can handle elementary/high schools because those strikes don't last long, solutions are responsible, and well argued to a decision... .come in with a high request, leave with a middle one....when you planned on getting that in the first place


frankly at this point, the government should strip york of it's university title, make it a college again, this is becoming childish


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## Cory (May 2, 2008)

> I found some aspects of this post a little hard to reconcile, though.


That's because you're drawing too many conclusions without many facts.


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Cory said:


> Being a student is not supposed to pay at all, let alone pay well.


Our job is to study. That's what academics do. Many of us do research that leads to cures for cancers, lets us better understand the mind and solve societal problems. Academics need to be paid too, even if they're understudies. And like in any other industry, the better the academic, the better the pay, so yes, sometimes it is supposed to pay well even for us students.



Cory said:


> I would have loved to have spent 10 hours a week reciting what the professors had said in classes or holding discussions groups with students for $14,000 a year


Then you should be contract faculty. No doubt you would not think it so fun. And not for $14000 a year.



Cory said:


> ...frankly, given what 90% of the T.A.s I had did I think I would have been equally qualified to do it without the extra year or three of schooling.


You probably are just as qualified as most grad students when they start - because they were undergrads too. Also, most TAs don't teach courses related to their degrees; I teach anatomy - however nowhere in the the course do I use the the terms "microvasculature" "matrix metalloproteinase" or "signal transduction". We teach whatever they tell us to, and in most cases it's just as new to us as it is to the students.



Cory said:


> Even if the T.A.s were paid nothing at all, they are still GETTING something, namely an education and more importantly in today's world, credentials to go on and do whatever it is they want to do later in life. If they are living under the poverty line as they claim then perhaps taking on a graduate degree or TAing wasn't a great choice for an educated person.


We pay tuition too. And do research full time. Some of us have to teach sometimes too. Oh, and we have to eat sometimes, and it's nice to have a warm dry place to sleep. TAing is what many grad students do so they get paid so they can live.



Cory said:


> Or, they could do what I did in university and work 30+ hours a week to pay for whatever they needed. I didn't even have osap and I was self sufficient, my parents raised me to be that way. I worked summers (T.A.s are also allowed to do this) and nearly full time in the winters, took a full course load, and still managed pretty well straight As and admission to law school.


I'm not allowed to hold any employment outside of TA/RA/GA positions, and I'm limited to 10 or less hours total a week. It's stipulated by the University (for basic funding), as well as the Heart and Stroke Foundation of Ontario (external funding). However I am only contracted for 4 hours a week, and cannot get anymore, but I cannot work outside the school. See a potential problem here? Without external funding, I would be making about $7000 a year. Minus tuition, and you have close to $1200 maybe to live off for a year. How's that for poverty?
Most others are not as fortunate as I am and have no external funding. I'd really be interested to see you work 30+ hours a week when you spend 50 - 60 hours a week in a lab doing research, plus doing TA duties.



Cory said:


> I understand that grad degrees can be intensive, but it is by no means unpaid labour. Many receive grants for their research, others are T.A.s and the unlucky ones get real jobs and work real hours.


Very very very few people receive grants capable of supporting them, not all grad students have TA positions, and many are in the unenviable position of having to research full time and then have to go to other jobs.



Cory said:


> ... another reality for many of the T.A.s they are from rich families and really don't need the money.


I highly doubt this.



Cory said:


> What's really sad is that when looking at the recent vote results, only 69% of CUPE 3903's membership deigned to show up at all, and of those only 63% voted against the proposal. Sadder still is that unit 2 (contract faculty) who have the strongest case for being on strike (not to say that I agree with them 100% either) had the lowest percentage of votes against the proposal (59% vs. 62% and 70% in the other two units). If the people with the most legitimate claims are most willing to take the offer what does that say about the other two groups?
> 
> All this doesn't even take into account the plight of the 50,000 undergraduates who will lose more money because of this than the 3 units combined. Meanwhile, the union bosses still have their jobs, aren't taking any pay cuts, and keep themselves relevant for another few years until people start questioning why they needed them to begin with again. Unions belong in factories, fields and other labor intensive institutions, not in elitist universities.


But I do agree with this.

All in all, you need to be a bit more informed, and get off your high horse. Remember, a lot of us Grad students were undergrads too. Some of us might have even worked a little while undergrads too


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## Cory (May 2, 2008)

> Our job is to study. That's what academics do. Many of us do research that leads to cures for cancers, lets us better understand the mind and solve societal problems. Academics need to be paid too, even if they're understudies. And like in any other industry, the better the academic, the better the pay, so yes, sometimes it is supposed to pay well even for us students.


And at York you are the best paid research assistants in all of Canada. Somehow however, T.A.s at other schools like UWO where I went are content with what they are paid and don't go on strike every few years. Undergrads also pay tuition to study. Granted, it is rare for an undergrad to come up with any cures for cancer but then again not all T.As are working in the field of science. Many are in philosophy, english, math, sociology, anthropology, political science etc. and I don't think they're out there curing cancer or really contributing to society. Let's also remember that T.A.s go into the position knowing full well what it pays and what the hours will be. It's not as though they're conscripted into service and are then faced with something they'd never expected. As I stated before, if they couldn't afford to live and study on the T.A. salary, there are jobs out there that pay better but do require more hours of work. I had 15 hours of class + another 30 or so hours a week to spend covering readings and producing assignments in my honors courses and I still worked. Not easy, but with good time management, it's possible.



> Then you should be contract faculty. No doubt you would not think it so fun. And not for $14000 a year.


I was referring to the T.A.s only not contract faculty. Contract faculty get paid by the course, so the more they teach the more they get. T.A.s at York get paid 14k to work part time jobs, it's a pretty sweet deal.



> You probably are just as qualified as most grad students when they start - because they were undergrads too. Also, most TAs don't teach courses related to their degrees; I teach anatomy - however nowhere in the the course do I use the the terms "microvasculature" "matrix metalloproteinase" or "signal transduction". We teach whatever they tell us to, and in most cases it's just as new to us as it is to the students.


As you've admitted here, it's an easy part time job.



> We pay tuition too. And do research full time. Some of us have to teach sometimes too. Oh, and we have to eat sometimes, and it's nice to have a warm dry place to sleep. TAing is what many grad students do so they get paid so they can live.


Grad students aren't forbidden from working summer jobs to the best of my knowledge, working a good summer job you can earn another 8 - 10k over the summer which will more than cover tuition. The money from T.A.ing covers the rest. Might not be a lavish lifestyle, but again, it's a part time job and you're still getting your education. Again, other T.As who make less, with the same stipulations manage to get by without striking. It's not the rest of one's life, it's a short term thing as most grad degrees last no more than 2 years.



> not all grad students have TA positions,


The ones that don't have them, aren't on strike. Somehow they're doing alright.



> I highly doubt this.


You probably aren't from the area then. A lot of the local York students are from very well off families.

Lastly, had I chosen to go to law school I would have been paying 14k minimum a year in tuition, plus rent, plus living expenses and would have had no government aid, nor any cushy T.A position. That would have exceeded the cost of being a grad student, required as many, if not more hours of hard work and taken longer to complete than a graduate degree. Yet, law students aren't on strike. In fact, law students at York have been some of the most outspoken critics of the strike, probably for those very reasons. They take out loans, work jobs and do whatever they have to to get through school and get the jobs they want. Same with med students.

I also have friends who are T.A.ing at UWO and while I'm sure the situation there isn;t identical I know that they also are not allowed to work outside jobs and that they provide the same basic function as York T.A.s and they are also opposed to the strike. They are all in the science fields and are working on the same things as York grads. I'm well informed on the subject, and if it appears that I'm on a high horse, it's only indignation at the fact that less than 2000 self-righteous T.A.s are ruining the lives of 50,000 paying undergrad students.

The irony of it all is also that as a result of this strike York has received far fewer undergrad applications and thus the contract faculty who relies on jobs for the excess classes York teaches will have less courses to teach and thus will be making even less money. It's backfired tremendously.


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## Prodicus (Nov 3, 2008)

I like schooling fish.


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Cory said:


> And at York you are the best paid research assistants in all of Canada. Somehow however, T.A.s at other schools like UWO where I went are content with what they are paid and don't go on strike every few years.


If you look at *Total *funding received by Masters students in science, for example, across Canada, you'd see that York Students are among the lower paid ones. Although we may get paid the best to TA, we have to TA to receive our minimum funding. Many other programs do not require TAing as part of the minimum, but it is extra money for those students above ad beyond their minimum guarantees.



Cory said:


> Granted, it is rare for an undergrad to come up with any cures for cancer but then again not all T.As are working in the field of science. Many are in philosophy, english, math, sociology, anthropology, political science etc. and I don't think they're out there curing cancer or really contributing to society.


I'm not really defending THOSE people (I won't even get into funding for Liberal arts fields...money has been spent in less worthwhile ways IMO), but in all fairness, fields like social and political science, anthropology, history and other liberal arts fields do have their contributions to society too.



Cory said:


> Let's also remember that T.A.s go into the position knowing full well what it pays and what the hours will be. It's not as though they're conscripted into service and are then faced with something they'd never expected.


Actually, we are conscripted. We have to TA to receive funding if the school assigns a TAship as part of our funding. And we have little or no say as to what we teach; sometimes we get an easy assignment (like I do teaching basic anatomy), and sometimes we get bad ones (like being the sole marker for an essay based course with 160 students).



Cory said:


> As I stated before, if they couldn't afford to live and study on the T.A. salary, there are jobs out there that pay better but do require more hours of work.
> 
> Grad students aren't forbidden from working summer jobs to the best of my knowledge, working a good summer job you can earn another 8 - 10k over the summer which will more than cover tuition. The money from T.A.ing covers the rest.


I think you're missing the fact that a lot of the time you can't work over a certain number of hours - it's in the agreement you sign. It's part of the deal with being a 'full time' student. Also, a lot of have no choice but to TA - it's either TA or receive no funding at all.



Cory said:


> I had 15 hours of class + another 30 or so hours a week to spend covering readings and producing assignments in my honors courses and I still worked. Not easy, but with good time management, it's possible.


I'm not saying it's not possible to work and go to school either - I'm just saying it's a lot harder when research is a full time position. I too worked during my un-funded undergrad years (fourth year was paid for completely, which was sweet). But third year, I had 28 hours of class on a long week, worked in a research lab on my project for at least 20 hours a week, and worked 16 hours a week, plus time reading and studying for courses and research projects. I know it can be done, but it's not fun, as you probably know.



Cory said:


> You probably aren't from the area then. A lot of the local York students are from very well off families.


Many people don't like to mooch off their family's wealth and like to be self sufficient. Regardless of the fact that many of the people might have come from better-off families (which is certainly not the case most of the time anyways). I thought you were of the same school of thought?
Also, most of the grad students are not from the area. Many of the undergrads are, and do live off of mom and dad, but I can assure you that the grad student population is different.



Cory said:


> Lastly, had I chosen to go to law school I would have been paying 14k minimum a year in tuition, plus rent, plus living expenses and would have had no government aid, nor any cushy T.A position. That would have exceeded the cost of being a grad student, required as many, if not more hours of hard work and taken longer to complete than a graduate degree. Yet, law students aren't on strike. In fact, law students at York have been some of the most outspoken critics of the strike, probably for those very reasons. They take out loans, work jobs and do whatever they have to to get through school and get the jobs they want. Same with med students.


Law students aren't as affected by the strike - their classes are still being held, albeit voluntarily. But still on. And they will be finishing their courses on schedule so that they can go onto their summer placements and also to take the Bar exam. Also, all professional degrees cost more - engineering, dentistry, veterinary science, the list goes on - but I fail to see how going into a professional degree program is equivalent to a graduate degree. None of them require an original research based thesis project - all of them are course based, so an entirely different situation.



Cory said:


> it's only indignation at the fact that less than 2000 self-righteous T.A.s are ruining the lives of 50,000 paying undergrad students.


You should see the students. They ruin my life every time I have to teach a class or mark assignments 



Cory said:


> The irony of it all is also that as a result of this strike York has received far fewer undergrad applications and thus the contract faculty who relies on jobs for the excess classes York teaches will have less courses to teach and thus will be making even less money. It's backfired tremendously.


Yup, pretty much. We already got the email about how they project for next year that there will be fewer TA positions available a there is going to be an expected sharp decline in undergrad applications.

All in all, what I am saying is that being a grad student and a TA is not an easy peasy life. Many people are struggling to get by. I defend their right to a better life (as even students have a need for adequate housing and food). But I am in agreement with you that it is unfair of the union to hold the whole school (not just the undergrads) hostage.

And yes, I did vote against the strike continuation.


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Prodicus said:


> I like schooling fish.


Me too. They never go on strike. And if they do, they get eaten by shrimp and snails.


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## Cory (May 2, 2008)

> And yes, I did vote against the strike continuation.


If only there were more like yourself in the union . My sister is always in the house now and all I hear is the pounding of her techno music day and night !


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## hojimoe (Mar 7, 2008)

Cory said:


> My sister is always in the house now and all I hear is the pounding of her techno music day and night !


you make it sound so exciting lol...


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Cory said:


> If only there were more like yourself in the union . My sister is always in the house now and all I hear is the pounding of her techno music day and night !


lol....I really did. I think techo is the funniest thing ever, just after happy slapping.


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## JamesG (Feb 27, 2007)

I hate unions as a general rule. But, to elaborate, my sentiment is best expressed through this Simpsons quote:

"You can't treat the working man this way. One day, we'll form a union and get the fair and equitable treatment we deserve! Then we'll go too far, and get corrupt and shiftless, and the Japanese will eat us alive!"


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## characinfan (Dec 24, 2008)

wngt368 said:


> Lol one of my TA's claimed that that was not enough and she had to go find a part time job???
> 
> I have no idea what she is thinking...


TA hours are capped, so even if you're paid $30/hour, if you get only one TAship per year, that's no more than $6,900. Depending on the department and the university, that money is taken away from the money you get from the department as part of standard funding. It's not enough to live on.

A lot of grad students TA and have part time jobs. I sure did.


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

JamesG said:


> "You can't treat the working man this way. One day, we'll form a union and get the fair and equitable treatment we deserve! Then we'll go too far, and get corrupt and shiftless, and the Japanese will eat us alive!"


Shh... They know too much.


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## Prodicus (Nov 3, 2008)

If I were at York I would join the class action suit in a heartbeat.
http://www.yorktookmymoney.com/


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

The problem with the class action lawsuit is that it probably has no grounds. I'd have to assume that the university has provisions in any agreements with staff and students that covers their ass in the event of a strike, given that the university goes through strikes so damn often.

In other news, back to school!  Damn, now I have to TA.


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## Prodicus (Nov 3, 2008)

They can try to protect themselves with such provisions, but that doesn't mean they'll work for them in court. I'd join the suit in a heartbeat. I hope York loses, and I hope administrative heads roll.



ameekplec. said:


> The problem with the class action lawsuit is that it probably has no grounds. I'd have to assume that the university has provisions in any agreements with staff and students that covers their ass in the event of a strike, given that the university goes through strikes so damn often.
> 
> In other news, back to school!  Damn, now I have to TA.


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