# How long plants usualy live ?



## ppaskova (Apr 27, 2010)

I'm just wondering what an average lifespam of the plant is. I have some plants in my tank like Amazon sword and java fern that is over 3 years old. I'm noticing that some of their leafs start getting yellow / brown after they grow but new ones still coming out. So I'm wondering if they getting old or so ?


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

are the bad leaves on the bottom where they get low light? This could be the problem. I don't think plants have old age. Just remove yellowed leaves.


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## ppaskova (Apr 27, 2010)

pyrrolin said:


> are the bad leaves on the bottom where they get low light? This could be the problem. I don't think plants have old age. Just remove yellowed leaves.


Not only. But some on the top as well.


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

could the top ones just be too close to the lights and getting burnt by the lights? Do you have high light?

Could also just be a lack of co2 and or ferts. If you have plants that are 3 years old, I am sure they are large.


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## Boogerboy (Sep 23, 2008)

Perhaps this can be of help


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## ppaskova (Apr 27, 2010)

pyrrolin said:


> could the top ones just be too close to the lights and getting burnt by the lights? Do you have high light?
> 
> Could also just be a lack of co2 and or ferts. If you have plants that are 3 years old, I am sure they are large.


Yes. 2X24W, 24" T5HO for 6 hrs a day, and I'm dozing Flourish excel 9Ml every 3 days (this is 30Gl tank). And yes leafs mostly very large, up to the top of the tank. As per chart some of my leafs look similar to N5,6, and some to N8


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

not sure but I am lower in knowledge than many here when it comes to plants


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## fishclubgirl (Mar 4, 2010)

Swordplants are root feeders so try some root tabs!!


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## balutpenoy2oy (Feb 17, 2011)

ppaskova said:


> I'm just wondering what an average lifespam of the plant is. I have some plants in my tank like Amazon sword and java fern that is over 3 years old. I'm noticing that some of their leafs start getting yellow / brown after they grow but new ones still coming out. So I'm wondering if they getting old or so ?


no light + no nutrient + no water = terminal life


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## fishclubgirl (Mar 4, 2010)

How old are your bulbs?? They lose power over time.


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

Plants do have life spans, and some can live for many many years, while others might only live for a few years. In addition to that, there are three basic classes of plant, based on how they flower and so on.

Annuals live only one growing season. Once they flower and go to seed they die. You can slow that down by picking off the flowers before they set seed, as most gardeners know. Many plants are called perrenials, which means they may live for decades. Usually they go dormant for some period of time each year, during winters or dry seasons, then they come back. In their growing season, they flower and set seed but do not die afterward 

Some plants are biennials, which means they grow for one season, go dormant, then flower and set seed the following season, and die. The common herb, parsley, is classed as biennial. Some plants, like trees, are perrenials that can live for hundreds of years, but most don't manage that kind of lifespan. Some trees only live a few decades. But in nature, plants reproduce, so that even if the parent dies, it's offspring hopefully will continue.

But we are keeping our water plants in an artificial environment. Many are simply cuttings, and if you continue to take cuttings, a plant can literally live forever, or for so long as cuttings are taken and they grow. Every cutting is a clone of the parent. I suspect a fair amount of research would be needed to learn what most of our plants would have as their true life spans in their native habitats. 

But even if they are annuals, removing flowers or flower spikes before they have a chance to bloom will prevent the death of the plant. It will probably try to flower again, but so long you stop it, it will continue to grow for much longer than it was meant to. Though some will eventually die because they just get worn out with the repeat attempts to reproduce. It is recommended that you should never let a Madagascar lace plant flower, as it may well die afterward. Technically, I think it may be an annual, but the way we grow them it may take years to reach maturity and flower. But they don't always die afterward, the tuber may sprout new leaves and go on to grow again. No guarantees. 

Anubias, on the other hand, if they bloom, they don't die. So far as I can learn they're perrennials, and are part of a huge family, the Aroids. Don't know how many are water plants, but Anubias is one. So Anubias might, potentially, have a very long life span. I just don't know about most of the plants we keep, as the information available is mainly concerned with providing the appropriate conditions to keep them alive in our tanks, rather than on propagation or life span. But any plant that produces runners and babies, or will grow from cuttings, is, in a way, going to live for as long as conditions allow it to.

But it's quite normal for any growing plant to lose old leaves, which will turn brown and die. If it's also happening to leaves that are younger, or new ones, then it is likely nutrient related. Something is not present in enough quantity to maintain the health of the leaves.


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

someone mentioned the bulbs being old, I have heard and also experienced myself that bulbs are only good for max 1 year for plants then they loose something and just suck for plants but looks like the same light still, just missing something we can't see


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

Bulbs you get for gardens have been forced to grow big, and are sold at a time when they are going to produce their biggest show of bloom. Sadly, they are not able to provide that same show the following year. If left alone, they will continue to flower, but the main purpose of the plant is to reproduce, not make big showy flowers. 

So if you want a big show every year, you have to plant new bulbs. If you don't mind a bit less of a show, you can leave them and simply accept there will be less of a show the following couple of years, and then divide them. My Mom grew tulips that way.. bought a bulk bin of small bulbs, let them grow, lifted and divided the babies off every few years. We always had tulips in bloom each spring, but not huge fancy ones.

And some bulbs and tubers are grown under conditions we simply cannot duplicate in home gardens. I love caladiums, which grow from a tuber. They're a shade plant, but usually only make a good show for one season. After that, if you winter them over,, the tubers get smaller and smaller, with fewer and fewer leaves, 'til they're gone. 

The nurseries that produce them grow them in full sun, which means very few leaves are produced. Heavy feeding helps force the tubers to grow larger, so when they are sold, they're bursting with big colourful leaves that will come up for the buyer. 

But it takes time.. fist size tubers cost five or six times what a tulip size one costs. Either way, if you get two years from the biggest tubers you're doing well. Wintering them over is hard,though not impossible. 

They are not year round growers where they originate, and spend a lot of time dormant. Many tubers and bulbs have a long dormancy requirement that producers manage to get around for awhile. But it catches up with the bulb soon enough once it leaves the nursery.


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## fishclubgirl (Mar 4, 2010)

Aquatic plants can live a long time but the environment needs to be maintained. Substrates lose their nutrients, bulbs dim, glass tops need to be cleaned and ferts are needed. So as these happen, plants will not grow as well...


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## ppaskova (Apr 27, 2010)

fishclubgirl said:


> Swordplants are root feeders so try some root tabs!!


Done that, did not help


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## ppaskova (Apr 27, 2010)

fishclubgirl said:


> How old are your bulbs?? They lose power over time.


4 months, from January


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

well, im stumped on this one


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## xriddler (Feb 16, 2012)

Not to be rude, i just have to restate this though from your previous thread because it makes since to me and its just my opinion. You have highlight to my knowledge but do not inject co2. you excel every other day though also mentioned in a previous thread. 

Even if you dose or root tab your plants with such highlighting without enough carbon to last for its photo period is in my opinion what is browning your plants. you have a inert substrate unlike dirt tanks that replenish some/little co2 back into the system. i suggest dosing excel everyday and try to find a way of hanging your lights since your plants are lowlight plants.


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## ppaskova (Apr 27, 2010)

xriddler said:


> Not to be rude, i just have to restate this though from your previous thread because it makes since to me and its just my opinion. You have highlight to my knowledge but do not inject co2. you excel every other day though also mentioned in a previous thread.
> 
> Even if you dose or root tab your plants with such highlighting without enough carbon to last for its photo period is in my opinion what is browning your plants. you have a inert substrate unlike dirt tanks that replenish some/little co2 back into the system. i suggest dosing excel everyday and try to find a way of hanging your lights since your plants are lowlight plants.


I don't get why I need to hang my lights and increase CO2 / excel dosage since I have low light plants. And here is my catch 22 dilemma:
Originally I had 1 T8 20W Life-GLO lamp for 8 hrs a day and my low light plants were not growing. And I only have low light plants in it and my understanding is that 6 hrs of light should be enough for low light plants without dosing any CO2 ???? Now as per GTAAquaria advice I uprated my lights to two T5HO 24W ones and I'm back to the square one but with increased algae. So where is the balance? Should I just simply remove one of the T5HO lamps to produce low light settings ?


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## xriddler (Feb 16, 2012)

ppaskova said:


> I don't get why I need to hang my lights and increase CO2 / excel dosage since I have low light plants. And here is my catch 22 dilemma:
> Originally I had 1 T8 20W Life-GLO lamp for 8 hrs a day and my low light plants were not growing. And I only have low light plants in it and my understanding is that 6 hrs of light should be enough for low light plants without dosing any CO2 ???? Now as per GTAAquaria advice I uprated my lights to two T5HO 24W ones and I'm back to the square one but with increased algae. So where is the balance? Should I just simply remove one of the T5HO lamps to produce low light settings ?


So as my memory serves me right from a chart on the plantedtank forum. A chart that a member Hoppy made your 1 bulb t8 fixture was not even in the low light category. then your two bulb is considered high light category. So you basically went from light that cant grow to lights that grow grow grows.

this is my 2cents and this is what makes sense to me and hopefully makes sense to others too and can chime in if my 2cents is correct or wrong. YES your plants are low light plants but if you shine high lights onto them you have to match back the co2 and ferts for the dang plant to keep up. if you over exert the plant it stresses itself out and dies/browns out. first of all ferts are nice but you need more than ferts to start photosynthesis and CO2 is one crucial component. sure you have lots of ferts in your tank but without co2 how does the process continue once the plants have consumed all your carbon from your excel dosing.

Second Algae means your plants arent out competing the algae and they grow because you have excess nutrients in your tank. co2 does not kill algae but it will help plants out compete the nutrients so algae gets nothing. Why hang your lights? because its giving your tank highlight in a concentrated area and from comparison if you hang lights the spread of lights is more even throughout the tank. example my single bulb t5ho glo light when sitting on my tank i get dark spots at the edges when i have it hanging 4-5 inches above my tank, i dont see those dark spots anymore giving me more spread throughout my tank.


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## ppaskova (Apr 27, 2010)

xriddler said:


> So as my memory serves me right from a chart on the plantedtank forum. A chart that a member Hoppy made your 1 bulb t8 fixture was not even in the low light category. then your two bulb is considered high light category. So you basically went from light that cant grow to lights that grow grow grows.
> 
> this is my 2cents and this is what makes sense to me and hopefully makes sense to others too and can chime in if my 2cents is correct or wrong. YES your plants are low light plants but if you shine high lights onto them you have to match back the co2 and ferts for the dang plant to keep up. if you over exert the plant it stresses itself out and dies/browns out. first of all ferts are nice but you need more than ferts to start photosynthesis and CO2 is one crucial component. sure you have lots of ferts in your tank but without co2 how does the process continue once the plants have consumed all your carbon from your excel dosing.
> 
> Second Algae means your plants arent out competing the algae and they grow because you have excess nutrients in your tank. co2 does not kill algae but it will help plants out compete the nutrients so algae gets nothing. Why hang your lights? because its giving your tank highlight in a concentrated area and from comparison if you hang lights the spread of lights is more even throughout the tank. example my single bulb t5ho glo light when sitting on my tank i get dark spots at the edges when i have it hanging 4-5 inches above my tank, i dont see those dark spots anymore giving me more spread throughout my tank.


Thank you very much for your advice. The only problem with hanging the light is that (and I mentioned it my previous posts) I have children ranges from 10 years to a toddler. And my fish tank in the leaving room, where they play. So if I hang the light and remove rest of the top lid I have a high chance that my 6 years old and 3 years old will throw something to it immediately. Also the light itself may end-up in the tank as they may kick it as well. So I rather let plants suffer then dis-mental the whole tank. Now back to my question (and you somewhat mentioned it in your post) If I remove one of the lamps and leave it with one 24W T5HO would it be consider enough as a low light and I do not need to doze a lot of CO2 ?


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## xriddler (Feb 16, 2012)

That just sounds weird to me and im curious, how will your children kick the lights? Second i did not mention that you had to remove the glass lid to stop things from dropping into the tank and third even if you remove the glass lid there are other methods to cover your tank. if you check out gregs tank he uses a DIY cover that stops things from dropping into the tank and two, allow for water evaporation. 

as for your lights removing one bulb all depends if your fixture allows you to, some fixtures require two bulbs in other to for it to turn on. But since you are i presume still going to let it sit on top of your tank the light spread will not be enough. I presume this is your tanks dimensions 36 x 12 x 16 inches?


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## xriddler (Feb 16, 2012)

This is your tank and as you can see there are many dark spots in your tank. if you want to just try it just use your two hands and hold up your light fixture and see if the spread of light widens. if it doesnt then forget all i have said and continue on with what you are already doing as i was probable very wrong.


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## ppaskova (Apr 27, 2010)

xriddler said:


> This is your tank and as you can see there are many dark spots in your tank. if you want to just try it just use your two hands and hold up your light fixture and see if the spread of light widens. if it doesnt then forget all i have said and continue on with what you are already doing as i was probable very wrong.


I'll try that tonight when I come home and let you know. Also the fixture sits on 4 legs that look very fragile to me ? And I'm afraid when my kids run around or play ball around the area (and it happened before) and accidently through ball towards the fixture it may fall ??


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## xriddler (Feb 16, 2012)

shouldnt be playing ball near the aquarium what if they crack the glass? i think that would be a bigger concern than the light fixture. 30 gallons on the floor?


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## ppaskova (Apr 27, 2010)

xriddler said:


> shouldnt be playing ball near the aquarium what if they crack the glass? i think that would be a bigger concern than the light fixture. 30 gallons on the floor?


Well it is a soft ball they playing. They trained not to touch the tank or play any heavy games around it. But I dad the situations where they were running around and accidently through the soft ball or teddy bear near the tank. Also if I just put fixture on its legs but did not remove the lead, how it will be better as the glass area in the lead is very small ?


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## xriddler (Feb 16, 2012)

yea your plastic lid has to go but there are full glass lids as a option for replacements. Or like i said use a DIY cover. and OMG as you just stated you use the plastic lid but the aquatic life fixture doesnt sit on it well enough to spread the light. instead of lifting up the light just remove the lid first and put your fixture on top of the tank and see if it was your lid causing spread problems. my opinion is to still lift up the fixture but thats up to you.

FYI these lids are available. 
http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=11252588&f=PAD%2FpsNotAvailInCA%2FNo


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## ppaskova (Apr 27, 2010)

xriddler said:


> yea your plastic lid has to go but there are full glass lids as a option for replacements. Or like i said use a DIY cover. and OMG as you just stated you use the plastic lid but the aquatic life fixture doesnt sit on it well enough to spread the light. instead of lifting up the light just remove the lid first and put your fixture on top of the tank and see if it was your lid causing spread problems. my opinion is to still lift up the fixture but thats up to you.
> 
> FYI these lids are available.
> http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=11252588&f=PAD%2FpsNotAvailInCA%2FNo


OK. Got the glass lid and installed the light on top of it with legs. See attached pictures (one without flash and one with) it still looks like that there are black spots. Also I removed the plastic cover from the fixture to let the light go through since the glass lid already there, should II put it back ?


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## xriddler (Feb 16, 2012)

i am assuming the first picture is without flash since the second picture has a flash reflection. I think the tanks looking fine and has less dead spots and i would not put back the plastic lid back. if you compare the previous posted picture you can see the light was focused on a specific area and in your recent picture it looks much more evenly spread out. have you decided to remove one bulb to make lighting in the low light range.


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## ppaskova (Apr 27, 2010)

xriddler said:


> i am assuming the first picture is without flash since the second picture has a flash reflection. I think the tanks looking fine and has less dead spots and i would not put back the plastic lid back. if you compare the previous posted picture you can see the light was focused on a specific area and in your recent picture it looks much more evenly spread out. have you decided to remove one bulb to make lighting in the low light range.


Not yet decided. Will experiment on the weekend. Also should I put back the see through protection plastic lid / cover back to the fixture do decries the light a little as well ? It currently removed to make light stronger.


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## xriddler (Feb 16, 2012)

ppaskova said:


> Also should I put back the see through protection plastic lid / cover back to the fixture do decries the light a little as well ?


Are you talking about the fixture cover so no water would hit the light fixture's light bulb or protect it from moisture? I would put it back on but thats because i have an open top tank. but im sure its safer to always use it. I have read and seen on youtube your fixture where the plastic got too hot and close to the lightbulb and melted. just make sure when you put it on to not put the plastic piece so close cause after that video it scared me and stopped me from buying it in the first place.


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## ppaskova (Apr 27, 2010)

xriddler said:


> Are you talking about the fixture cover so no water would hit the light fixture's light bulb or protect it from moisture? I would put it back on but thats because i have an open top tank. but im sure its safer to always use it. I have read and seen on youtube your fixture where the plastic got too hot and close to the lightbulb and melted. just make sure when you put it on to not put the plastic piece so close cause after that video it scared me and stopped me from buying it in the first place.


Yes. the original plastic see through cover to cover the lamps from water or moisture. I removed it originally because light was sitting on to p the canopy that already had plastic see through protection. Now I have a glass lid but it possibly is a good idea to put that bottom cover back to protect the lamps themselves. 
Another question. How important PH for grow of the plants. One of my friends telling me that higher is PH the plants grow slower and fish is not that happy. My PH is 7-7.5, closer to 7.3. His PH is around 6.5 and his java moss is going crazy (mine just sitting there not growing). And if lower PH is better, how to lower it and keep low ?


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## ppaskova (Apr 27, 2010)

OK. Removed one light bulb from the canopy. It working fine with one. Will update you in the week on the plants grows / progression.


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## ppaskova (Apr 27, 2010)

ppaskova said:


> OK. Removed one light bulb from the canopy. It working fine with one. Will update you in the week on the plants grows / progression.


After 3 days with one lamp in the fixture I noticed increased algae and my java fern starting to get yellow. So I put second lamp back.


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## xriddler (Feb 16, 2012)

i am just putting this out there so others can comment besides i dont know if what i am saying makes sense. Here goes, if one lamp is producing more algae, wouldnt two lamps produce even more algae as there are more lights for the algae to thrive on?


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## ppaskova (Apr 27, 2010)

xriddler said:


> i am just putting this out there so others can comment besides i dont know if what i am saying makes sense. Here goes, if one lamp is producing more algae, wouldnt two lamps produce even more algae as there are more lights for the algae to thrive on?


Probably you are right. But I noticed that with one lamp my plants (java fern) start becoming yellow and I noticed more algae on them. Yesterday I put second lamp back and dozed Flourish excel (triple doze) and this morning plants look better and healthier. I don't know why ???


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