# FW to SW Noob help



## CatfishSoupFTW (Jul 21, 2011)

Hey everyone, 

so i have been doing the whole fresh water scene for a few years now. Currently running a 55 and 10 gallon FW tank, with live plants, co2 etc etc but I have been itching recently to maybe go into the SW world. now, I am a student, and so financially (yes i know SW is $$) but id like to go small scale first for a few years as i learn things before I upgrade. 

Anyway, so I have plans on turning my 10 gallon into a nano. FOWLR set ups do look cool, but Reef, in my opinion would feel more satisfying. So now my question is, what would I need, as in the basics to make this happen? I dont want to go too fancy, I would just like to learn things from step one and move up over time to keep the cost down initially. 

So currently I have:

10 gallon starfire tank from AI
2 clip lamps ( i can replace lighting if need be, excluding MH) 
Heater that will suffice for a 10 gallon 
Eheim 2213 with stock media
Power heads that I have in my 55 but could possibly shift over to the 10 gal, if not I can pick one up im sure. 

These are the items which I would like to see if I could reuse here to keep costs low. After doing hours of research I have noticed there is quite the battle between canisters being Nitrate factory , versus refugiums or sumps, but I mean, I have also read tons of people running reef set ups with HOB aquaclears, and canisters, and I have even seen canisters running 75 gallon reef set ups before, so I mean it is possible, and like with this hobby in general, its about time, patients, and routine. 

So my question is, can/how can I make the canister work well. Lighting, what recommendations. its a 45 cm tank. how much sand or crushed coral, what type, etc etc. I also have hob filters, can i convert to refugium, do i need a protein skimmer for such a small tank. Salt to buy, and any other info you guys may have. 

I hope the post isnt confusing, and I hope I placed it un the right area. I have spent long hours on this forum but usually in the buy sell trade area hahaha. 

Jose


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## Thoreffex (Dec 31, 2013)

From my prospective running a 5g reef its a lot of work with toping off water. distilled water works alright. but anyways you should get some live rock about 1lb per gallon of water. your hob filter you can use it as a media reactor for some kind of phosphate reducer and carbon and it creates some kind of flow. for sand go shallow sand bed (1") because water changes are a must (get a good supply of salt) with small tanks so a gravel syphon is a good idea . a protien skimmer is a good idea and they are not too expensive but might run you $100 on the high end for a nano. a good refractometer is worth ever cent. as money comes you can get a small power head should be on the list. when you set things up wait till the algae bloom is done. before adding fish or the CUC get the water tested for nitrates, nitrites and ammonium at a LFS to save money on test kits. you wll need test kits depending on the corals you want to keep.


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## someguy (Sep 7, 2009)

this site will explain everything

http://www.nano-reef.com/forums

The reason hob's work is because they make them into refugiums, mostly aquaclear 110's. You don't really use a filter in sw the same as in fw because the bio media is actually in the live rock and live sand already.

People will tell you nano tanks are sometimes a pain in the butt, lots of things have to go smooth with less room for error. Also there are a bunch of corals you won't be able to keep because they either outgrow everything or sting everything. I would reconsider a bigger tank or at least holding out a few months until you know exactly what you're in for. Some people say the all-in-one tanks are a tad easier to work with also.

I was going to go nano for my first sw tank, but over the course of learning about sw tanks I reconsidered. For many I think it's too limiting and you get too tempted to overstock or add just that 1 more thing.. so just do your research, not trying to discourage you but there's more to consider than fw.


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## fesso clown (Nov 15, 2011)

+1 do some research on nano-reef.com

YOu can use your canister filter, ditch the media and stuff it with filter floss. YOu need to replace the filter floss every other day or it will become a "nitrate factory".


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## altcharacter (Jan 10, 2011)

Oh my god!!! I will stop by one night and we will chat.
Even better, you can stop by my house anytime and we can chat. I don't live to far from you and its the least I can do for you.

Pm me and I'll give you my info


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## CatfishSoupFTW (Jul 21, 2011)

altcharacter said:


> Oh my god!!! I will stop by one night and we will chat.
> Even better, you can stop by my house anytime and we can chat. I don't live to far from you and its the least I can do for you.
> 
> Pm me and I'll give you my info


hahaha, my location is somewhat a lie. So, im from North York, but I live in Oakville for my college studies and work. BUT, the offer does seem great. As much as i enjoy reading, nothing is better than a good discussion. I shall hold you on that until I know when im around toronto.


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## CatfishSoupFTW (Jul 21, 2011)

someguy said:


> this site will explain everything
> 
> http://www.nano-reef.com/forums
> 
> ...


I agree with your last statement. I have read alot, and I would only imagine a nano SW would be difficult. Heck, even nano FW can have its issues. the process I feel will take a few months, because this is expensive, and spending money on a nano thats always messing up, im sure isnt something anyone likes to do.

now, I dont know the rules of posting outside links (sorry) but here are few things I have found on kijiji. The reason being onto why im looking there is to save money. Unfortunately, the investment of a tank doesnt retain under reselling for the most part. so I have found a few posts which seem reasonable.

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-livestock/ma...ale/574718821?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-pets-other-i...ank/567775620?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-buy-sell-oth...ank/578791714?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

I have also seen some nano 10 gal set ups for sale, those bio cubes but like we all know, 10 gal can be a bit difficult to run.

thoughts? ideas? If i do commit to any of these purchases though, my learninng could be rushed though.


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## someguy (Sep 7, 2009)

you can post links as long as it's not your own sale. For sure as a student try and get as much as you can used, while researching I have slowly been collecting used equipment from others here so definitely use that resource.

Probably best to start after your school is over that way you don't lose any study time over it and it gives you some more time to read up.

sometimes kijiji has cheap biocubes which are a decent all in one setup, but the bigger the better I think is the rule. The 29g ones are a good size if you go that route. Biocubes usually sell for around the same price you buy them too (if used) so if you upgrade you get some funds back.


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## altcharacter (Jan 10, 2011)

You will get a much better deal looking thru the ads on this forums. The Kijiji prices are fair but when you have addicts like ourselves you tend to get great deals!!


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## CatfishSoupFTW (Jul 21, 2011)

appreciate the post and info. Not too sure yet what I am up to. As I currently have 2 fresh water tanks running, and bringing in a SW... well, I dont think my mother will be too happy. ahah (still in college) 

I currently have a 55 and a 10. I wouldnt mind a 50-75 gallon short tank for a SW set up. I guess ill continue looking around and doing more research as I know once I get into this full throttle id like to commit and do it right. As mistakes were made early into the FW hobby but nothing worth regretting. 

I was always thinking of getting a 120 gal starfire once I graduate, but if I go SW as well, id like to reconsider my options, and maybe sacrifice that, over getting just another large tank and working on a SW. not sure. 

I will for sure continue reading on stuff as there is no rush. Over the summer maybe once I start making more money I will see where things are headed. 

thanks everyone  

if anyone ever wants to continue the thread or post new findings on sales go for it.


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## CatfishSoupFTW (Jul 21, 2011)

what do you guys think?

http://www.gtaaquaria.com/forum/showthread.php?t=83945

the images are quite poor, so i dont know how to judge what im looking at.


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## someguy (Sep 7, 2009)

Looks like a lot of algae. I think for some people out of control algae makes them leave the hobby. Personally I wouldn't want someones headache to deal with on a new tank.


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## CatfishSoupFTW (Jul 21, 2011)

someguy said:


> Looks like a lot of algae. I think for some people out of control algae makes them leave the hobby. Personally I wouldn't want someones headache to deal with on a new tank.


how much of a hassle would it be to clean though? as its quite a bit of stuff for the price. including the tank size.


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## someguy (Sep 7, 2009)

Not sure, hopefully someone with more experience will chime in on that. It's not impossible but not really something I would want to do. Worst case is something like you sell the livestock, dry/cook the rocks, get rid of the sand and sort of start over from there. 

If for the equipment it's a good value and you really don't care about the work you could think it over.


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## CatfishSoupFTW (Jul 21, 2011)

someguy said:


> Not sure, hopefully someone with more experience will chime in on that. It's not impossible but not really something I would want to do. Worst case is something like you sell the livestock, dry/cook the rocks, get rid of the sand and sort of start over from there.
> 
> If for the equipment it's a good value and you really don't care about the work you could think it over.


yeah i also think it may be too large. I dont think I would be ready for this yet. for FW sure, but not SW xD


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## fesso clown (Nov 15, 2011)

Because this is YOUR thread and not the sale thread I will tell you that in my opinion that is NOT really a good deal. 

I would caution against a package deal with livestock like that, unless the system is "clean" and has all the livestock that you would have chosen yourself (the fun part) Do you LOVE pink leather coral and GHA? then go for it! 
In this case you will be stuck with the "headache" of trying to deal with the algae. I would not use any of the rock from that system without cooking it (killing everything living off and soaking it for a month or so) 

Things to consider in package deals: 
-do I love the livestock included? ( maybe you do)
- is the rock clean (no) 
-Is the tank drilled? (this one is not, it looks like a over the top syphon overflow, I could be wrong) 
-does it come with T5HO, Metal Halide or LED ( this one does not) 
-Decent protein Skimmer? (this one is HOB, so no)
-Decent return pump? (passable) 
-Sump (this one is a mess) 
-stand (not much worse than mine  )
-Decent powerheads ( maxjets - passable but not ideal) 

Not trying to mess with anyones sale, just my opinions. 

There are great deals that come up all the time. I would caution against this one and suggest you don't buy complete with livestock and cycle the tank from the beginning your self. You will learn so much more from your own mistakes and have the fun of selection your own stock.


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## altcharacter (Jan 10, 2011)

Contact Rob Burns, he was thinking of selling his 65g and a great price


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## CatfishSoupFTW (Jul 21, 2011)

fesso clown said:


> Because this is YOUR thread and not the sale thread I will tell you that in my opinion that is NOT really a good deal.
> 
> I would caution against a package deal with livestock like that, unless the system is "clean" and has all the livestock that you would have chosen yourself (the fun part) Do you LOVE pink leather coral and GHA? then go for it!
> In this case you will be stuck with the "headache" of trying to deal with the algae. I would not use any of the rock from that system without cooking it (killing everything living off and soaking it for a month or so)
> ...


Really appreciate the response. I also agree with the learning process of starting from scratch. ill probably end up browsing for a long while. thanks 

anyone know any good informative channels on youtube? I know the FW people but havent seen the good SW people yet


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## someguy (Sep 7, 2009)

No particular order but brs has great beginner videos on everything start there.

brs https://www.youtube.com/user/BulkReefSupplyCom
newyorksteelo https://www.youtube.com/user/newyorksteelo
arc https://www.youtube.com/user/AmericanReefChannel
jdreef https://www.youtube.com/user/JDReef4220
tidalgardens https://www.youtube.com/user/tidalgardens

steelo doesn't make vids anymore but the others update regularly, jdreef is setting up a new tank I have been following his progress.


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## fury165 (Aug 21, 2010)

+1 on what Fesso wrote. i'd add that the stand isn't really a stand, just some 2x4's on end on top of some cinder blocks. The sump is poorly designed and you wouldn't be to install a proper Skimmer because the chambers all seem to be too narrow. So you'd essentially be trying to fix issues or settle for poor design. 

If you are patient you can find great deals right here on the forum... There are guys who are continually upsizing their setups. 

My 2 cents....


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## fury165 (Aug 21, 2010)

CatfishSoupFTW said:


> I agree with your last statement. I have read alot, and I would only imagine a nano SW would be difficult. Heck, even nano FW can have its issues. the process I feel will take a few months, because this is expensive, and spending money on a nano thats always messing up, im sure isnt something anyone likes to do.
> 
> now, I dont know the rules of posting outside links (sorry) but here are few things I have found on kijiji. The reason being onto why im looking there is to save money. Unfortunately, the investment of a tank doesnt retain under reselling for the most part. so I have found a few posts which seem reasonable.
> 
> ...


If you want to see a nice nano setup and get some ideas, take a look at Canada Corals' Fluval Edge they have at the front.


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## CatfishSoupFTW (Jul 21, 2011)

whats everyones thoughts on biocubes? JBJ (or whatever it is) oceanic, or nuvo or whatever it is. Are they worth it? good for beginners? spacing, glass quality, filtration options, are they good for long term or would you find the need to upgrade quickly? 

28 gallons-30 gallons, reasonable size? Im sure there is info out there etc, and I will look, but figured since the discussion here is hot, its worth getting new responses then seeing other responses catered to other conversations. 

Biocubes though do seem nice when it comes to price point. 

if the biocube is a better route, what about the need of an R/O system for water changes? would I have to buy water? etc.


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## wchen9 (Jan 23, 2014)

I'm pretty new too and have not had an all in one system like a biocube so I can't really comment on that. As far as upgradeability tho, they seem kind of limited.

Regardless of what type of tank you choose, I would suggest getting an rodi system. It just pays for itself in the long run and you won't be lugging water home from a store all the time. I got one from max water near Vaughan Mills.


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## CatfishSoupFTW (Jul 21, 2011)

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-other-pets/guelph/29-gallon-biocube/584930375?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

what do you guys think? I was thinking maybe do the biocube route for about a year plus so that I dont get too ahead of myself potentially. They do seem like good all in one sets. I saw ads for 400 bucks for a 14 gallon but I think that may still be small.

thoughts on a 29 gal?


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## Faith04 (Dec 2, 2012)

CatfishSoupFTW said:


> http://www.kijiji.ca/v-other-pets/guelph/29-gallon-biocube/584930375?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true
> 
> what do you guys think? I was thinking maybe do the biocube route for about a year plus so that I dont get too ahead of myself potentially. They do seem like good all in one sets. I saw ads for 400 bucks for a 14 gallon but I think that may still be small.
> 
> thoughts on a 29 gal?


I started out with the 29g biocube a few years ago, I enjoyed it, but found that 4 months after having it, I wanted to go bigger, so now I have a 75g. Im not sure how limited in space you are ( pardon my ignorance on not reading the whole thread) but I am much happier with the bigger tank. BUT if you know you're going to be happy with the biocube size, I'd say go for it, it a good tank to get started on, but size is limited. I can't give any opinion on other all in ones, maybe somebody else can chime in on that.


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## tom g (Jul 8, 2009)

*bio cube*

I found the bio cube a good starter tank ,,,gave u a good knowledge of salt mixing water changes and keeping things in tact..also gave u an idea on the skimmer small fuge and return pump idea ..
space is very limited so u have to keep that in mind with everthing ..small fish 
small snails small everything 
when u see the big ass coral that looks bueatiful u have to go with the smaller one ..just my opinion bigger is always better but if u can find a 29 biocube for a good price go for it ..but if u think u will upgrade in 3 months don't do it go for as big as u can ,and space provided .
biocubes are not great resellers as they are limited to certain individuals so keep that in mind , u wont be able to recoup any money u have in it on this site so it will kijjii or craigslist type . just my 2 cents 
cheers and good luck 
tom


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## CatfishSoupFTW (Jul 21, 2011)

tom g said:


> I found the bio cube a good starter tank ,,,gave u a good knowledge of salt mixing water changes and keeping things in tact..also gave u an idea on the skimmer small fuge and return pump idea ..
> space is very limited so u have to keep that in mind with everthing ..small fish
> small snails small everything
> when u see the big ass coral that looks bueatiful u have to go with the smaller one ..just my opinion bigger is always better but if u can find a 29 biocube for a good price go for it ..but if u think u will upgrade in 3 months don't do it go for as big as u can ,and space provided .
> ...


hmm, yeah I was looking at them for a beginners standpoint. I hav fresh water knowledge but I mean, I was thinking a bio cube may be of use here to keep things at a minimum. Im budgeting around 500-800 (800 is a massive stretch) and I probably still need an RO system, so I was thinking maybe a biocube for now will suffice. especially because I still have a 10 and 55 gallon FW to attend. and im in college. Lol. and with a job. I dont want anything I will regret, but now lets say I go a larger system. 40 gallons plus, all that will easily equal to 2 grand plus. And space being a small factor as well.

so do you think that kijiji link I most recently posted is worth it ? 425 obo?


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## fesso clown (Nov 15, 2011)

There's a great deal on Aquarium Pros right now:

$400.00	
Description: Sad to have to sell this. Moving to a new apartment and sadly downgrading.
Up for sale is my 85 Gallon Rimless Cube 30" x 30" x 21.5" with 3/8" glass and a center overflow. Tank was built by John at NAFB in winter of 2012.

Freebies include - 
Mag drive 12 return pump 
Marineland IN- Sump protein skimmer 300 gallon
Eheim Jager Tru temp 200w heater
Durso Stand pipes 
2 x 24" strip lights 

As well your more than welcome to the stand if you want, its built up 2x4's, the paneling on the front will need to be replaced or you can run it bare.

400$ for all
Located in Toronto

As another kicker I'm taking the tank down on Saturday, If you take it and can come pick it up on Sunday I'll give you 40 bucks off. So everything for 360$
NC


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## wchen9 (Jan 23, 2014)

It's on this forum as well. http://www.gtaaquaria.com/forum/showthread.php?t=86226

I saw the tank earlier this week while picking something else up and it looks really nice.



fesso clown said:


> There's a great deal on Aquarium Pros right now:
> 
> $400.00
> Description: Sad to have to sell this. Moving to a new apartment and sadly downgrading.
> ...


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## CatfishSoupFTW (Jul 21, 2011)

fesso clown said:


> There's a great deal on Aquarium Pros right now:
> 
> $400.00
> Description: Sad to have to sell this. Moving to a new apartment and sadly downgrading.
> ...


much thanks on the post!!!

been trying to register on that site, but apparently the world is saying no. No matter how I enter it. I dont think I have struggled this much in order to register for a site.


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## damsel_den (Oct 31, 2011)

http://www.gtaaquaria.com/forum/showthread.php?t=86226

Heres the link for the add here


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## fesso clown (Nov 15, 2011)

run, don't walk. you will still need some stuff but this is a good deal on a nice tank.


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## CatfishSoupFTW (Jul 21, 2011)

fesso clown said:


> run, don't walk. you will still need some stuff but this is a good deal on a nice tank.


of course!

thoughts on the cube? or what about a frag tank?

http://www.aquariumpros.ca/pp-class...=34270&title=complete-frag-tank-system&cat=42

it looks like it has about everything you need, minus some proper live rock?

though its a 37 gallon tank though.


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## fesso clown (Nov 15, 2011)

go for the cube... you will be off to a great start! 
that frag tank is a good deal too but it is really shallow for a display tank. I do like it though.


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## someguy (Sep 7, 2009)

Ya for that price you can't lose. Even if you feel it's too big it has everything to convert your 55 to salt =P
the other deal is ok too, in the end it's all your call I think you should go with your gut feeling on what you really want.


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## Hamish (Apr 18, 2014)

You could definitely set-up a 10 GL tank for Saltwater, You don't need a Protein Skimmer, Water changes would Suffice, Theres nothing wrong with using a Canister Filter. The problem with them is that they collect detritus and you'd have to keep it clean, that can be time consuming. A filter hanging on the back of your tank can be used for Carbon or GFO. As well you could set up a Refugium in a Aqua 110, There lots of info on the net regarding the use for a Refugium. A few basics about SW, Water Quality is the upmost important. RO/DI with 0 TDS is a must. The best lighting you can afford, Patience and Never, ever over stock your Tank, I've been involved with SW for over 10 years and theres a right way and a wrong way to go about have a successful Reef.


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## CatfishSoupFTW (Jul 21, 2011)

versus the 80 gal, and this one,

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-pet-accessor...ump/583977526?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

what am i missing? the 80 gallon doesnt seem to have a sump. :s

what i mean by whats missing, is what would I have to buy? trying to evaluate my costs.


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## fesso clown (Nov 15, 2011)

Looks like the 80 g is missing the sump and powerheads for flow. 
You can make a sump for under $50.

The set-up includes... 
- 90 Gallon Reef Ready Fish Tank - Drilled (2x 1" bulkheads + standpipes) with built-in overflow 
Nice tank
- Black wood stand w/Cabinet doors. Recently refinished 
Nice stand 
- MegaFlow - Model 3 Sump / Wet/Dry Filter - with BioBalls & Drain hose 
-not a good SW sump
- Quiet One 3000 Pump 
decent
- Coralife SuperSkimmer 125 
meh 
- Coralife Turbo Twist UV Sterlizer - 9w 
not needed, rarely used for saltwater 
- AquaClear Powerhead pump (to supply UV sterlizer) 
redundant
- Phosban Reactor - 150 
- Maxi-Jet 400 Powerhead pump (to supply reactor) 
Great but can be bought for $50-75 often 
- 2 - Eheim Jager Heaters - 150watt 
great heaters 
- T5-HO Light Fixture - 2 x 54 W - 48" 
good light but not enough light for a 90 gallon reef- (4 bulb minimum) 

400 dollars more than the cube and Still missing things you will need:
More light 
powerheads 
ATO 
RODI unit 
upgrade skimmer

85 Gallon Rimless Cube 
really nice tank 
Mag drive 12 return pump 
Decent 
Marineland IN-Sump protein skimmer 300 gallon
meh- you will need a pump for this skimmer 
Eheim Jager Tru temp 200w heater
great 
2 x 24" T5HO strip lights 
good

MIssing:
sump ( $50-75 ) 
Skimmer (150) 
ATO 
RODI 
powerheads

I think the cube is a much better deal. That 90 looks like a freshwater set-up except for the GFO reactor


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## CatfishSoupFTW (Jul 21, 2011)

fesso clown said:


> Looks like the 80 g is missing the sump and powerheads for flow.
> You can make a sump for under $50.
> 
> The set-up includes...
> ...


amazing response thank you.

I was messaging the guy for the cube last night, byt he had someone ahead of me. and thrn he bought it !!! D: as for the 90, yeah it had a FW feel.


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## fesso clown (Nov 15, 2011)

I figured the cube wouldn't last. 
That 90 is an Ok deal but not really. You are better off piecing something together.


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## CatfishSoupFTW (Jul 21, 2011)

fesso clown said:


> I figured the cube wouldn't last.
> That 90 is an Ok deal but not really. You are better off piecing something together.


yeah haha a few hours too late.

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-other-pets/m...gallon-salt-water-aquarium-for-sale/585027090

I messaged this guy. to see whats up. He is rockin HOB filters, and so I dont know how I feel about that. I asked the guy for more pics and the two dont really show much. Lighting looks like Dual T5HO with lunars? prob. 48 inch so 54watts x2 minimum.

thoiughts on this? I need a stand, but another 300 on a stand seems like quite a bit. 550 and maybe I can buy a cheaper stand? (obviously without losing structural integrity.


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## damsel_den (Oct 31, 2011)

I think its too much money, for that kind of money you can get a lot better of a system...
Id figure out what size you want. Look at reviews of products and piece one together.
Or wait and a good deal will come up


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## CatfishSoupFTW (Jul 21, 2011)

damsel_den said:


> I think its too much money, for that kind of money you can get a lot better of a system...
> Id figure out what size you want. Look at reviews of products and piece one together.
> Or wait and a good deal will come up


its been real stuff trying to find a good system. Most sales are usually people with no time, so the systems are over par. no sump either which I find odd for 40 plus gallon set ups. Then when there are some good ones, they ask for 4k plus... way out of budget. haha. Well if you guys ever see a good sale, post it up!

I have been debating getting it in parts, but I dont know what would be better yet. :s


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## Bullet (Apr 19, 2014)

I agree with the others that nanos can be challenging and in this addictive hobby, you'll want more and more and more if you go the reef / coral route
I've had a nano 16 gallon for a while now with HOB filter and protein skimmer - cool mod found on YouTube 
It's been a blast to get going and stock 
Yes the parameters are a little tougher to get stable but I have found that after the 3 month mark it seemed to calm down nicely. I do test often but in most cases, my water is in good shape
Suggestions for nano equipment that can't be scrimped on are;
* lighting - I use a Kessil LED and love it - you can get less expensive but just as good LED lights from Fragbox 
* wave maker if you can afford it - I have an MP10 on my 16 g and I'm sure some on this site would say that's overkill but that unit is the best investment that I have made - you might find one used ?
Final piece of advice from my nano experience is to research and pick your corals carefully. I bought too many too quickly and space became an issue - now I'm very selective 
Good luck !


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## fesso clown (Nov 15, 2011)

go get that frag tank package, he needs it gone today and it's a steal at $250. You can always change the tank but a shallow tank is nice too.


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## CatfishSoupFTW (Jul 21, 2011)

fesso clown said:


> go get that frag tank package, he needs it gone today and it's a steal at $250. You can always change the tank but a shallow tank is nice too.


he responded to me once, he still has it, hopefully I can grab it! D:


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