# Help with betta aquarium



## CeeEssGee (May 15, 2014)

To start off, I am definitely a complete beginner regarding fish and aquarium care. My fiancée purchased a betta fish in February from Big Al's in Newmarket. I told her she was crazy and it would die in a week. Over the months I have seen her become quite attached to the fish, and to my surprise, so have I. We named him Loki.

About a month ago we started noticing some problems. He was not looking as bright, and his fins seemed to be shrinking slightly. Then one day there was a severe difference where he looked nothing like his former self, fins looking torn, not much of an appetite, and mostly just floating in a corner (bottom or top). She thought it was every disease in the book but after some research I could not find any of the telltale signs. There were no white flakes, no golden shimmers of velvet, no redness, just a wasting away of his fins, some weight loss (possible that is just my perception from his fin loss) and an obvious malaise.

He is in a 2.5 gallon tank (http://www.bigalspets.ca/mini-bow-desktop-aquarium-kit-black-2-5-gal.html) with no live plants, kept at around 80 degrees. We use bottled spring water, and do put a bit of salt in. We feed him 2 of the premium pellets twice per day, and 1-2 times per month frozen bloodworms.

We then went to BA's and the girl there told her to use some kind of blue medication, turn off his filter, and don't change the water anymore. We did that, and despite the fact that he did show some signs of discomfort from the medication, we kept at it for almost a week and then went back.

Since I had researched a bit, I wanted to test the water. Another employee there said that he suspects the reason why Loki was sick was because my fiancée was doing 100% water changes once per week. Apparently we are not supposed to do that, and instead just change 25-50% of the water, and at this point we may as well turn on the filter to get rid of the medication. She also purchased a water test kit, though of course it was the cheap strip kind and not the liquid API test which I would have preferred. In addition, she purchased some sort of product for a stress coat (it turns out that this is just some bacteria to assist with cycling).

I tested the water we are using and the pH is at the highest end of the scale, GH and KH are at the highest end of the scale. Everything else is at the lowest end. When I called the guy at BA's, he said that it is good that the water is high on GH, but said he was only "mildly concerned" about the basic pH and high KH, and suggested I just add a bit more salt to the water.
Loki does seem to be recovering a bit, but he is still struggling and I want to, going forward give him no reason to be so upset.

I would love it if my pH was more in the neutral area, and if the water was a bit softer. The thing is, we live in Newmarket and have a water softener for my tap water. The employees at BA all say not to use tap water if it has been softened. I can get water from outside, which is not softened, but also rates on the highest end of GH and would create a challenge in the winter.
I hear people talking about reverse osmosis water, but isn't RO water the same as distilled water, in that it has none of the minerals the fish require? 
I am really not sure what to do about this, and would appreciate any advice, especially from those who are used to the tap water in Newmarket. I have thought of just mixing distilled water with spring water, but would rather something that is more.. consistent.

I am guessing the first thing I should be doing is buying a liquid test kit. Is there anything else I can be doing to help the little guy out? 
Also, should I be running the filter or not? My understanding is that the filter is important for cycling. She is worried that the betta is struggling to swim against the current. From my observations he doesn't seem to struggle so much but is a bit more active.


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## HOWsMom (Jan 3, 2012)

The test strips you guys got - did it give you levels for :
Ammonia ?
Nitrite ?
Nitrate ?

You should be running the filter, yes - it is what keeps the water clean.

Can I ask why you are using bottled water ?


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## CeeEssGee (May 15, 2014)

HOWsMom said:


> The test strips you guys got - did it give you levels for :
> Ammonia ?
> Nitrite ?
> Nitrate ?
> ...


Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate are all on the lowest end of the scale of the strips.

I am using bottled water because my tap water is softened, and the tap that is not softened is outside, which is very hard.

There seems to be some controversy over using a filter with bettas, as they apparently do not like current and don't need the extra oxygen in the water. The filter would also neutralize tannins, although we aren't using any tannins (e.g. indian almond leaves or driftwood) at this point as I am still trying to figure out what the best course of action is.


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## HOWsMom (Jan 3, 2012)

CeeEssGee said:


> Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate are all on the lowest end of the scale of the strips.
> 
> I am using bottled water because my tap water is softened, and the tap that is not softened is outside, which is very hard.
> 
> There seems to be some controversy over using a filter with bettas, as they apparently do not like current and don't need the extra oxygen in the water. The filter would also neutralize tannins, although we aren't using any tannins (e.g. indian almond leaves or driftwood) at this point as I am still trying to figure out what the best course of action is.


Okay, that makes sense. I was just curious about the bottled water.

If ALL the ammonia, nitrite and nitrates are at 0's then the tank is not cycled, and while bettas are labyrinth fish who breathe at the surface, they will definitely do better with a properly cycled tank.

You can minimize the current from the filter if it's a problem for your betta <3


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## Ischemia (Dec 19, 2012)

a good place to check for Betta related help is http://www.bettafish.com/.


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## WiyRay (Jan 11, 2009)

1. Welcome to the forums! 

2. Even though you're new to aquaria in general, on behalf of everyone, THANK YOU for starting your betta off in a great home and not one of those dinky bowls. You guys were already off to a great start. 

Anyway, I personally wouldn't really recommend the bottled water. I think it contains things way worse than your own tap water. Salt-wise, you don't need to add so much in there, a pinch is more than enough I would say. Doesn't your water softener already use salts of some sort? (I really don't know much about water softeners). If anything, just use aged tap water even though it's softened. You could even mix it 50/50 with the outside water if you're concerned. (Someone else should chime in with more knowledge regarding the specific water parameters, I just think bottled water is a bad idea.)

Like you've already learned before, 100% water changes are not good. I think just 10% weekly water changes is good enough if the betta is the only thing in the tank. Never do anything drastic, always ease into it to allow for adaptability. 

Keep using your filter! The controversy is really just the flow of the water, bettas are not fans of fast moving waters. The filter is still required for all it's other functions to keep your water parameters safe. Just like HOWsMom said, you could always minimize the flow by obstructing it or turning it down a bit.

If you were wondering. Tannins are from wood and almond leaves and they just turn your water a brown colour. Which is just unpleasant to look at, but generally doesn't affect anything that you need to be worried about. 

The reason why you saw filters neutralize tannins is due to the carbon media in the filters. Carbon will absorb tannins to clear the brown water, but will also absorb many other things including medications and the like. But this is all assuming you have carbon media in your filter to begin with. You will find that most aquarists these days don't use carbon anymore for many reasons. 

80 degrees on your tank seems to be a bit on the high side. If you have an adjustable heater, turning it down a bit would be beneficial. 

As of right now, your tank is probably not cycled, so you might as well start now and since it looks like you already have the bacteria for cycling the tank, its a start.

Otherwise, I think you've pretty much done everything right. You just need to give the betta some time to recover and keep an eye on the lil guy.


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## bob123 (Dec 31, 2009)

First are you using a water conditioner like prime? Also I use small sponge filters in my betta tanks with no problems. Which Big Als are you going to? A greater variation of food may be needed and with one betta in a 2.5 gallon tank you should only need to do water change of 25% once a week. The water should be aged and at room temperature as should the tank. Betta's do not live all that long 2yrs. is my experience.


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

stress coat is for removing chlorine in tap water, it has aloe vera added in to help fish and I find it to be a good product.

Now about the tannins and filters. A filter alone does not remove tannins, it would be carbon that you might put in the filter that removes tannins. Most of us don't use carbon but keep it on hand if needed.

Next is what brand of filter? Most filter media is just a stupid pouch made of floss with carbon inside and when you replace it, you are tossing out most of your good bacteria. I recommend either the aquaclear filters, ac 20 would be good on a 2.5, I use one myself on a 2.5 betta tank, or the new fluval C series which is almost the exact same as the aquaclear filters

Might want to drop the temp to 78

One way to help soften the water would be by putting a small piece of Mopani wood in there.

I recommend a little bit of plants, maybe some java fern attached to the wood or some little crypts. Bettas often like to lay on plant leaves.

I like the 50/50 inside and outside tap water idea. Be sure to use a dechorinator like the stress coat you have. Stress zyme also by API is a product to help boost the bacteria.

I am not overly concerned that nitrates are 0 because of all the very large water changes and the test strips aren't the most accurate. You might actually be cycled. But the only way to be sure is getting a good test kit and after a few days of no water changes checking that ammonia and nitrites are 0. If both are 0, you are cycled.

Also, do you leave the light on all the time? Fish need some dark time just like us to sleep


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## malajulinka (Mar 29, 2008)

My first thought when you say 100% water change is the old, "no clue what the hell we were doing" method that my dad employed when we kept fish as a kid, that involved fishing the poor fish out and putting them in a cup or something. DON'T DO THAT. If you're running a filter, 10-15% weekly is fine, and removes the stress of pulling the poor little guy out when you're cleaning his tank.

A healthy enclosure is not necessarily (in fact, not even remotely) one where everything is absolutely sterile.

In your place? I'd turn the the filter back on, do about 50% water changes daily for about a week (in case the 100% ones before require you to re-cycle the filter), and then STOP MESSING WITH IT. 

Stable parameters are much more important to most fish than perfect parameters.

ETA: Also don't change your filter cartridge (if it's a cartridge filter, which I suspect it is) until it basically starts to melt. Pyrrolin is right, if you change the cartridges "as recommended" you'll be cycling your tank each time you do. IME, one of those "whisper" filter cartridges basically won't ever need to be changed in the natural lifespan of your betta.


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## Mykuhl (Apr 8, 2013)

There are 2 successful methods to keeping bettas when it comes to water quality. One is to use a filter and cycle the tank before you put the betta in and do regular partial water changes, and the other is to to put the betta in an uncycled tank with no filter and do 100% water changes every 1-5 days depending on water volume used. If want to go the filterless 100% water change route(this is the way I keep my bettas) you will need to stay committed to changing the water on schedule and make certain that the water you use to do the water changes is dechlorinated, well aerated and within 1 degree in temperature of the old water. Also, if you treat your a water in anyway(adding salt, black water additives, buffers, etc) you will need to add these to the water your are using for the water change before you put your betta back in...you want stable water parameters. Also, the betta gets used to being caught and put back in on a regular basis as long as you can do this quickly and gently. It only stresses them out the first couple of times or so, or if you you make it too drawn out by chasing them all over the tank and keeping them in.the little container too long.


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

Since they have a 2.5 gallon heater and filter, best to do the cycled method since they are already setup for it


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## CeeEssGee (May 15, 2014)

Yes, from what I hear it is perfectly feasible to do 100% changes on a betta. However, it seems to me that it is far easier to cycle them just like any other fish, which is what I would prefer to do.

I do have the cartridge filter, which I believe has carbon in it but maybe I am wrong. It is the one that comes with the tank that I linked in the topic. I have seen the methods of baffling a filter but it doesn't seem to really apply on such a small tank. The water bottle doesn't do much. 

She leaves the light on during the day, but at night turns it off. However yesterday when it was quite warm, the temp got over 80. The heater we bought said that for the amount of water it should be keeping it at 78, but obviously that is not true. I don't know how to drop the temperature, other than just leaving the light off all of the time, but I have read that it is a good idea to give them a day/night cycle with the light just like us. 

Really, it seems like we are really making things more difficult for us with a small tank like this. I think I want to go to a 10 gallon so that we don't have to worry as much about these fluctuations.

I like the advice of using 50/50 outside and inside tap water. I think I may get a plumber to put a bypass valve inside for the winter. Still, the inside tap water will probably be higher in sodium.. but I think in this case it is probably better than bottled water. Should I be doing this change very slowly, or if I do a 25-50% water change, can I just use all tap water?

Where would I get "Mopani woo," and "java ferns?"

Also to the person who asked which Big Al's I am going to, it is the one in Newmarket.


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## HOWsMom (Jan 3, 2012)

CeeEssGee said:


> Where would I get "Mopani woo," and "java ferns?"
> 
> Also to the person who asked which Big Al's I am going to, it is the one in Newmarket.


Big Als will likely have both the drift wood and the ferns.


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## bob123 (Dec 31, 2009)

In my opinion I would discard the heater as I have bettas with no heaters. Over the summer you will see the temp of the tank increase. I use only sponge filters in my betta tanks. Mopani wood and plants can be bought thru members on this forum, much better quality and a better price. Just remember that new Mopani wood will darken your water with tannins they are not harmful and give the tank a natural look. If your tank gets light during the day from natural light but not direct sunlight you should be okay.


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## CeeEssGee (May 15, 2014)

I really don't think I can turn off the heater. We tend to keep our house cooler than most people. When we didn't have the heater, it was frequently 70 and below in the water.

I am also going to look in to replacing the carbon filter with a sponge, but at that point I come back to the same question: would it be worth it to just go with a bigger tank?


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## Mykuhl (Apr 8, 2013)

Ok a couple of things to keep in mind: first, an incandescent bulb over a small amount of water such as 2.5 gallons will raise the temperature of the water. What you can do is replace the bulb(s) with a screw in compact fluorescent bulb which will produce a lot less heat. Second, by the sounds of it it looks like you have one of those preset heaters that you cannot adjust the temperature. Most of these heaters will raise the temperature above the stated setting if your room temperature is above a certain level(as you have already witnessed). You are right, you will need a heater for your betta tank if you keep your home that cold. You would be much better off buying a 25 watt submersible heater where you can adjust the temperature to you want.

Bettas really do prefer slow to no current. Yo I can achieve this by increasing the water volume or by tying some filter floss over the output of the filter. You can go with the larger tank if you like, it will give you a bit more stable water conditions and give you more versatility. Although there is a bit of debate among betta hobbyists on wether a tank 10+ is suitable for anything but the short finned varieties.


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

a single small betta in a 10 gallon just doesn't look right to me. I find my 2.5 looks good.

those cheap bulbs heat up the water quite a bit, changing to cfl would help greatly with the heat issue. I use a lamp on an arm that I can adjust the height of for my betta tank


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## CeeEssGee (May 15, 2014)

Thanks for all of the helpful advice! I am going to stick with the 2.5 gallon for now and see if I can get everything to a more ideal level for him.

One last question: when doing partial changes I bought a vacuum like tubing system that you have to put in the water, and take out to create, well, a gravity bong like effect that sucks the water. We have had difficulty using it and have resorted to just sucking on one end to get the water to flow. It also tends to create a bit of a mess. Is there some better solution to doing partial water changes? I also find it is hard to fully submerge the plastic pipes without disrupting all of his decorations.


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## Y2KGT (Jul 20, 2009)

CeeEssGee said:


> One last question: when doing partial changes I bought a vacuum like tubing system that you have to put in the water, and take out to create, well, a gravity bong like effect that sucks the water. We have had difficulty using it and have resorted to just sucking on one end to get the water to flow. It also tends to create a bit of a mess. Is there some better solution to doing partial water changes? I also find it is hard to fully submerge the plastic pipes without disrupting all of his decorations.


Get yourself one of these:
http://angelfins.ca/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=28206&products_id=458
Works great to start a siphon. A couple of squeezes is all it takes.
--
Paul


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## CeeEssGee (May 15, 2014)

Well, thanks for all of the help, but as it turns out it was all for naught. As of this morning Loki has gone to Valhalla.

Before I had a chance to really do anything with the water, he started getting worse. His gills started to look swollen and he would just hide in the reeds in the bottom, or push against the glass at the top. Yesterday I saw him lying on his side on the bottom struggling to breathe.

I thought he was getting better.. his fins had started growing back and he started jumping for his food again. I just don't know what else I could have done. Bettas are supposed to be a hardy fish suitable for beginners apparently.

One thing I did notice though.. before our filter would always turn a bright green. It is my understanding that is a good sign of healthy Nitrophyllic bacteria in the filter. This time when I looked at it only about half of it was wet, and that half was a disgusting brown colour. 

Anyway, I am not sure if my fiancee will want to replace him, so I am leaving it up to her. I did enjoy having the fish, and I actually find the science/hobby aspect of aquarium keeping interesting. I'm in no rush though, since we are getting married in August.


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## zfarsh (Apr 7, 2011)

I had a 10g tank fully planted with snails / shrimps / dwarf cories which I had planed to get a betta for, awaiting for a breeder to get the one I wanted, but a friend gave me some of his guppies in my wait, and they are so friendly with me and the other fish, and so hardy without needing a heater and growing in numbers and eating from my hand and always being ready for me and so damn active, that I never looked back at getting a Betta, which I wanted to get the hardy type. And guess what, they also eat the alga on my plants!!!

I used to think they were boring, when I only 6 males, and now I think they are extremely cool, and have them in all my tanks, which they get along with my other fish.

Anyways, just something to consider, in case the Betta thing doesn't work out, and you have a fully cycled / planted tank available.


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