# Phillipene blue Angels



## joker

Recently picked out a potential pair from my stable of Angels, picked a wide fin electric blue marble pearl scale and a blue silver pearl scale to breed. Both fish are double dose pb/pb and are starting to prepare a spawn site. A pic of the pair.


----------



## TBemba

very nice good luck with the breeding


----------



## joker

Thanks, they are the first from my bunch that I've decided to try and pair. They haven't spawned yet but they are getting busy cleaning a site.


----------



## bob123

These fish look great, keep us posted on their results.


----------



## joker

Thanks bob123, the deed is done! Found eggs today. Took all of two days, they were quick.


----------



## zenins

joker said:


> Thanks bob123, the deed is done! Found eggs today. Took all of two days, they were quick.


Awesome 

I hope the eggs are fertilized and they fan them well instead of eating them


----------



## afnaveils

joker said:


> Thanks bob123, the deed is done! Found eggs today. Took all of two days, they were quick.


Good luck!


----------



## joker

I decided to pull the spawn and raise them myself. They hatched today, so far so good.


----------



## TBemba

Great news, wish you all the luck, its a tough labour intensive job. so you have the brine shrimp eggs setup and brewing and the vinegar eels ready?


----------



## joker

Thanks Tbemba, I have all the goodies. Even have a well established white worm culture for them when their of age, makes em chunky.


----------



## joker

Have a few others I'll be breeding with, have them together and I'll see who pairs up. Like this one!


----------



## skylane

Nice fish !!!
I'm going to try and breed my Angels , I've got two pair, black veils, gold and black silver marble.
Still got to set up the breeders for them, and a 75 grow out tank for them. My first attempt but should be fun!!?

Clem


----------



## joker

Hatched some of my blue marble and blue zebra spawn. Culled a bunch, don't want 300+ fry, and grew out about 150?. Fry have grown well and are about pea size, some colour showing now.


----------



## TBemba

Good job. Always rewarding breeding fish. When will you start selling them? Do you have stores lined up?


----------



## joker

Another example of the group.


----------



## skylane

Looks like a nice combination, the fry look good too!!! 
Are you going to keep some of the fry for future breeding of this strain?

Clem


----------



## Reis

Really nice angels!!!

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


----------



## joker

Thanks guys. I do plan on keeping a few select fish but most will be sold to local hobbiest that have contacted me, plan to move them When the reach a nickel body size. I do also sell stock to local retailers that I have formed relationships with over the years.


----------



## MBen89

That's awesome, but I heard that angelfish fry are a lot of work if you want to raise them yourself. Why not give the parents a chance to raise them?
lol I don't know about you but I ain't got no time to teach baby fish how to swim  haha keep us posted with pics if and when the eggs hatch


----------



## joker

Thanks mben89. The reason I artificially raise Angels and most other fish I breed is because there is a greater probability of actually attaining fry, the number of fry attained and the ease in which they are fed in my hatchery tank vs a spawning tank. After you get a system down through trail and error hatching eggs and raising fry isn't all that difficult for me and I enjoy doing it. Artificially raising discus years ago taught me a lot about hatching and raising baby fish,was worth the frustration!! Lmao


----------



## MBen89

Oh wow that's awesome. I purchased 50 baby peacocks when they were tiny, and it was very fun and rewarding emotionally to watch them grow. I can imagine how much more fun it is to hatch the eggs instead. I should give it a try sometime. So what other fish do you breed?


----------



## joker

I've enjoyed the hobby since I was 5, gives me 42 years in the game and over the last 15 or so years I've drifted heavily towards my interest in aquaculture. I've bred several different fish over the years but right now I'm only breeding Angels. Recently I was breeding Wild Bettas (channoides, albimarginata and macrostoma), pelvicachromis subocellatus "Matadi" and celestial danios. I like variety, the spice of life! Lol


----------



## skylane

So, I guess you remember the 80s then, me too !!! 
I sent you a pm just about your Angels ?

Clem


----------



## joker

80's were great! Fun carefree times for me! Will check my pms Clem.


----------



## TBemba

I too tried my hand at breeding and raising discus fry. Frustrating (understatement). Worth it? I did it twice with only 17 successful fry reaching adult.

This was back in the early 90's and I'm not sure I would ever go through all that again. 

Discus are beautifully frustrating. I am taking it easy and doing my first reef tank. Just about a year in and it's way easier than discus.


----------



## skylane

All we can do is try, and see what works for us!

Clem


----------



## joker

My fry are growing fast, most have dime size bodies. Pictured is a example of the blue marbles from this group.


----------



## skylane

Looks really cool!!!
Colors and patterns, unique.

Clem


----------



## joker

Pic of the blue silvers from this group


----------



## skylane

joker said:


> Pic of the blue silvers from this group


Nice!!!

Clem


----------



## joker

Well quite happy with the fry from this pair, all those that came to grab some were suprised at how much iridescence they were showing at this size. In person they sell themselves lol, had a few people grab more than they had originally reserved when they seen them with their own eyes and realized that they were the real deal. Still have some I'm growing out further from their nickel size and will probably sell these individually or in groups when I put some more meat on them. One of the zebras is pictured.


----------



## skylane

joker said:


> Well quite happy with the fry from this pair, all those that came to grab some were suprised at how much iridescence they were showing at this size. In person they sell themselves lol, had a few people grab more than they had originally reserved when they seen them with their own eyes and realized that they were the real deal. Still have some I'm growing out further from their nickel size and will probably sell these individually or in groups when I put some more meat on them. One of the zebras is pictured.


I've got some nice black veils I'm trying to breed out, got eggs, now just trying to prove them, they're parent raising as I was not prepared for the quick spawn, in 30mins after I put them I'm a breeder tank!!! 
Like to see some super veils one day!

Clem.


----------



## joker

I decided to keep a dozen or so marbles from this spawn to grow out, some marble zebra mixed in this bunch too. Here are a few from the group.


----------



## joker

Another fish from the school.


----------



## skylane

Nice looking male dude, IMO, I think you should call these Tiger Zebras and start a new strain of them, add a gold zebra , to get an orange to red background, if you mixed the two??? Just a thought, it has nice markings with pearlscale inset.

Clem


----------



## joker

Thanks Clem. The addition of a single zebra gene makes the marbling very unique from fish to fish. When I was selling them people really leaned heavy towards the marbles with the zebra gene so maybe they are more attractive, I personally lean toward the traditional marbling but as the saying goes "beauty is in the eye of the beholder." Im sending 8 of these guys on their way to Kenora tomorrow, the last of the extras from my personal grow outs.


----------



## Boreas

Incredible looking fish. Can I ask you what your system of tanks looks like for the spawning tank and grow out tanks? Size, set up etc.

I can see myself getting into breeding angels. My thought is getting an industrial storage shelving unit and having three to four 20 - 40 gallon tall tanks. But I'm what you call a newbie.


----------



## skylane

I've got a few Zs myself , just juvies but they are starting to look nice , two of them are Red Tip zebras, and 3 half blacks. 
I recently traded off my 2 pairs for something new! 
Stick with the tigers stripes and some color, those are some fine Zs man, very interesting!


Clem


----------



## joker

If you seen how I do all my fish you would probably scratch your head and say "how?". My breeding tanks,even for discus, are no larger than 20 gal. and I hatch and raise in tanks as small as 1-5 gal. Fish are graduated to larger tanks as needed and finally grown out in a 90 gal or 120 gal. Tanks get set up and torn down depending what's on the agenda. I pair, spawn and raise the fish produced and I have a good friend that handles the grow out phase of all species I breed, at a certain size depending on species they are moved and he puts the "beef" on them, wouldn't want him as a personal trainer though! Lmao


----------



## skylane

I'm using 10gs for breeding , but larger for grow outs, its a lot of work when they are in spawning mode, and they can spawn in a week to 9days, a lot of fry to handle man.
Your friend must have a fresh beef heart mix, yea it's all in the diet, food, water! 
Your making it look easy DUDE... It's a lot of work, and the frustration if something is not going well.
Power in number is what I say, Cull the weak and sick...Angel people love quality!
Keep up the good work man, keep posting the pics when you got something.

Clem


----------



## joker

Your right Clem, water changes and food are essential for growth, it applies to any species. Culling is also required to produce the best fish possible, superior quality is IMO what the goal should be. I would rather raise 50 A+ fish than 150 of something less, Im not perfect and I'm sure the odd thing has gone overlooked but I'm very hard when culling anything, "Sparta" rules apply here.


----------



## skylane

You are a good breeder man, qualities of what you speak are rare, and some people don't understand this, but the good ones do. We are going to stay in contact, as I'm venturing too as. soon as I can move, need to build fish room , but more like breeding room, not alot of space now for them.
I have a love for Angels, Discus,cichlids and too many more. I would love to do some nice GBRs , ATM I'm trying some of my gold Rams to breed. I think you said you live out west, I'm in Ont.
Keep up the good work, get your strains in order and make a new line of Angels!!!

Clem


----------



## joker

Thanks Clem, nice of you! The quality thing has always been paramount for me, don't want my name tied to crap and that's the bottom line. Funny you mentioned Rams, have a bunch of eggs and fry going right now, some German blues and some electric blues. Will be crossing a gold with a electric blue soon too. These eggs are due today!


----------



## skylane

Ok, send me some GBRs, when ready, just let me know. I'm no breeder just a hobbyist, but I know some fine ones in the states and I know the quality things all too well, as they have been my mentors and friends.
I'm not finding any quality Rams GBR in the pet stores, too many come from Asia and are prone to stress and diseases, as well as most fish. The water and acclimation process is different within countries, by the time the fish get here. I had bought some at the LFS, about 5 and 4 if them died and all showed the same type of symptoms, just bad weak fish . I was very disappointed, and now looking for our local breeders and hobbyist our there. I'm just tired of the crap, it makes you look further out to find qualities, but that is what the ultimate goal is!!?

Clem


----------



## joker

All my Ram breeding stock are Israeli bred and are superior to all the Asian bred stuff, I've worked with both so I have a comparison. The genetics and health of even the EBR's from Israel is superior to anything I've come across, I bred over 2500 last summer and they were highly coveted due to their quality and hardiness. Will let you know when they get big.


----------



## skylane

You are too kind sir, I will look forward with this, awesome man!

Clem


----------



## skylane

I just made a thread on here about making a breeding section for SW/FW people to get more people together in a more dedicated and breeders section, that should cover specific or all type of fish. I don't think they have one here , or more people can talk about and meet other breeders???
Some people are just looking for knowledge and information on how it all works. It's not secret, its good when hobbyist and pros help each other by just sharing and teaching. I think it could be done a bit more refined on GTA , I hope someone takes note... It would be cool to have everything in one place for breeding.

Clem


----------



## Marz

I don't do freshwater anymore but understanding good husbandry techniques from breeders would prove invaluable as well has having access locally. Hopefully I could find some good Koi breeders locally as I want to convert my pond 

This post itself has been very informative.


----------



## skylane

Marz said:


> I don't do freshwater anymore but understanding good husbandry techniques from breeders would prove invaluable as well has having access locally. Hopefully I could find some good Koi breeders locally as I want to convert my pond
> 
> This post itself has been very informative.


This a perfect example here why we need a Breeders section which I posted after your comment, in the GTA forum.
Thank-you for making this more clear with your comments as finding information needs to have a home. There is just too many questions that people want to know about breeding and who's who ???

Clem


----------

