# Angelfish



## Tabatha (Dec 29, 2007)

Doug White (http://www.deltaguppies.com/) has some stunning long finned angelfish available; Silver, Half Black or Chocolate. They're approximately quarter size. He also has a nice koi breeder pair available. They're originally from a breeder in the States. For more info, contact Doug at [email protected]

I picked up 4 yesterday, currently in quarantine!


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## Pablo (Mar 27, 2006)

http://www.angelfishkeeping.com/images/Freshwater-angelfish-group.gif

Just curious- but why do you have such a distaste for the way god made the angelfish?

Is it the bars? I don't understand why you never buy real angels


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## Tabatha (Dec 29, 2007)

Nothing could be further from the truth.

I know *YOU'RE* more than aware that Altums are (a) far and few between, and (b) require specific water parameters. I'd love to get F1's or F2's if I could find them. Many breeders in the U.S. work with Altums but are either unwilling to ship them to Canada or shipping (overnight) is cost prohibitive, especially since I'm not a breeder (yet!).

- t.


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## Pablo (Mar 27, 2006)

sell me some of your weed?

http://www.akvarista.cz/web/imgs/clanky/tmp/0001872.jpg

T'aint altum- just really bitching quality top notch scalare


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## Tabatha (Dec 29, 2007)

Actually, I think you need to *stop* the weed. Didn't anyone tell you not to wake and bake? Fries your brain, makes you stupid. 

So... you sent me a link to a photo on a Czech website, your point would be what exactly? That I can import them from the Czech Republic? What am I missing?


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## Pablo (Mar 27, 2006)

Tabatha said:


> Actually, I think you need to *stop* the weed. Didn't anyone tell you not to wake and bake? Fries your brain, makes you stupid.
> 
> So... you sent me a link to a photo on a Czech website, your point would be what exactly? That I can import them from the Czech Republic? What am I missing?


I don't know- it makes me a better aquascaper 

No my point is a lot of stores mis label altums (when they arent altums) and wild caught or first generation scalare and leopoldi can very easily be sourced. Its totally cool if you don't like them- I was just saying they are available- so if that was your only reason for not having them- that you thought they werent available- they are.

Why did you think I was talking about altums?

http://www.aqua-fish.net/imgs/fish1/angelfish-profile.jpg

http://www.vitawater.ru/aqua/fish/papers/pict/altum/img04.jpg

http://www.aquariaroden.nl/eringa/afbeeldingen/leopoldi260.jpg

(those last 3 are P. leopoldi)

http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/_System_Desktop Folder_George_gut5.jpg
Scalare
http://www.mundoacuariofilo.org/galerias/commons_wikipedia_org/450/Pterophyllum_scalare.jpg
Scalare
http://iwtb.com.ar/images/pterophyllumScalare_700x525.jpg
Scalare
http://www.aquatic-profiles.com/profiles/freshwater/cichlids/images/PterophyllumScalare003.jpg
Scalare/Leopoldi hybrid (?)
http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/_System_Desktop Folder_George_Gut3.jpg
EXCEPTIONAL scalare
http://www.aqua-fish.net/imgs/fish0/angelfish.jpg
Scalare

http://www.azgardens.com/images/Angel-Altum.gif
Altum
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/85/Pterophyllum_altum.jpg
Altum
http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/images/altum_angels.jpg
Altum
http://k53.pbase.com/g5/02/463902/2/67454854.PqJgC1MS.jpg
Altum
http://z.about.com/d/freshaquarium/1/0/M/E/fw0091.jpg
(crappy) Altum


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## Tabatha (Dec 29, 2007)

Even long time breeders working with wild angels often find it difficult to tell different Pterophyllum species apart if not labeled (or Googled) . How easy could it be for a beginner like me?

I love wilds but I have a very difficult time justifying taking them from the wild for my own personal pleasure, especially since there are so many beautiful, healthy domestic Pterophyllum scalare available. Not all are inbred you know.  

BTW, from what I've read, "MAP" angels are genetically Smokey Marbles (Sm/Sm-M/M), I'm guessing yours were purchased from Germany as they're referred to as "MAP"s in the UK, hence "German Map Angels"?

I've been doing my homework, reading through Dr. Norton's genetics articles.


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## Pablo (Mar 27, 2006)

Tabatha said:


> Even long time breeders working with wild angels often find it difficult to tell different Pterophyllum species apart if not labeled (or Googled) . How easy could it be for a beginner like me?




The doinkey ones maybe  I've never had trouble telling them apart there are very distinct differences.

*Not all are inbred you know. *

Most of them are-- sadly. Most breeders don't have the respect for line breeding they should and things end up getting inbred pretty fast   

There's nothing wrong with wild caught fish. It injects money into local economies.

You're better off taxing natural resources than having no resources.

They can take 10 000 rummy nose tetras- out of 10 000 000-- or they build a parking lot and then there are zero.


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## Katalyst (Jul 29, 2007)

Tabatha said:


> Doug White (http://www.deltaguppies.com/) has some stunning long finned angelfish available; Silver, Half Black or Chocolate. They're approximately quarter size. He also has a nice koi breeder pair available. They're originally from a breeder in the States. For more info, contact Doug at [email protected]
> 
> I picked up 4 yesterday, currently in quarantine!


Ohhh I can't wait to see them! As long as YOU are happy with them, that's all that counts. 

PS
You are evil for providing a link to Doug...I don't need the help!


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## Tabatha (Dec 29, 2007)

Katalyst said:


> Ohhh I can't wait to see them! As long as YOU are happy with them, that's all that counts.
> 
> PS
> You are evil for providing a link to Doug...I don't need the help!


They're really bright and active, like little puppies every time you approach the tank. I find most of Doug's fish to be like this.

Going to Doug's is like walking into a candy shop!


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## Tabatha (Dec 29, 2007)

Pablo said:


> The doinkey ones maybe  I've never had trouble telling them apart there are very distinct differences.
> 
> *Not all are inbred you know. *
> 
> ...


It's so sad we can't all be child prodigies simply by looking at pictures on the internet, watching You Tube videos and visiting fish stores.

No one should making broad, sweeping inaccurate statements about a group of breeders without at least making an effort to find out what they're doing in their hatcheries. Nor should anyone be making snap judgements of other people's fish and aquarium set-ups from photos. It's inaccurate b/c of lighting or angle and irresponsible and in some instances, damaging.

Cutting down the rainforest also injects money into the local economy. That doesn't make it right.


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## Ciddian (Mar 15, 2006)

I think this is one of those never ending arguments.


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