# Cycling Netlea tank



## randy

I am not famous for my patience, but cycling a tank isn't something I would skip on. I posted around 2 months ago about the three 20GL tanks I set up around the same time with different substrates. I learned a lot from that experiment.

Now, I want to share something about cycling a tank with Netlea (or anything similar). Before I start, I want to refer to some basics, read them if you're not sure how/why to cycle a tank.

Wikipedia's short description on Nitrifying bacteria

So, basically you want to make sure your tank has enough ammonia-oxidizing bacteria (AOB) to handle the ammonia produced by your shrimps and convert them to nitrite, and have enough nitrite-oxidizing bacteria (NOB) to convert the nitrite to nitrate.

The end result of a cycled tank is that you have enough AOB + NOB so ammonia and nitrite never will appear in your tank in dangerous concentration.

So

Ammonia (from shrimp) turns into Nitrite by AOB
Nitrite (from above process) turns into Nitrate by NOB
(How to get rid of Nitrate is not discussed in this post, maybe later)

Okay, that's basics and most of us already are very familiar with, and we have discussed a lot of things about how to do it fishlessly, either with rotting fish food, raw shrimp, or pure ammonia.

What else can help the establishment of AOB and NOB? (i.e. speed up the cycling process) These bacterias are known to spawn slower than others because they can't utilize organic food source, very unique in their own right, but the following help,
- Higher temperature (most bacterias grows faster in higher temperature)
- Higher PH (7.8+ is better)
- Higher oxygen concentration
- And of course, proper amount of food source (i.e. ammonia, but not too much, 4 to 5 ppm is about the highest, anything more actually kills these bacteria).

Okay, it's already been a long post but I haven't even touched my main topic. In my new Netlea tank set up 2 months ago, I had a big issue with the cycling process -- the PH is just way too low... it was about 5.3 when new and then gradually goes up to 5.7/5.8 after a few weeks and a few big WCs. In that kind of PH, AOB just can't establish. The reason is one, they don't like acidic water, two, at PH lower than 6.4 almost all ammonia turns into ammonum which these AOB is not very efficient in using. In my first 6 weeks of cycling, I have only tested NO2 once in low concentration. It's entirely possible that the tank was ready after that point since ammonia isn't likely to be present in that kind of PH but I took it more as an experiment than getting the tank ready for shrimp. After 2 months, there's no change, there just isn't any NO2 detected and very low NO3. I actually would put shrimp in there because from others' experience it should be safe, but I wanted to see how long it will be before I see the common signs of a cycled tank.

Anyway, about a week ago, I moved the tank to my basement and moved the Netlea from the 1x 20GL to 2x 16G (the floor areas are about equal). After a day with new tap water, the PH stayed up. One was 6.9 the other was 7.1. What the heck?! I thought by moving them to different tanks I destroyed them. I then thought maybe it's because I was using UGF in the 20GL but not in the 2 x 16G. So I bought a small double layer UGF from AI and put it in one of the two tanks. Guess what? PH dropped from 6.8 to 6.2 in 2 hours. Then it struck me -- I disconnected the UGF, then did some WC to get the PH back to near 7, turn on the heat, and started cycling. I think this should help and this will be the way I cycle these high PH lowering substrate from now on. I will connect the UGF to bring down PH to what I want after the tank is cycled.

Sorry for the long post, just something I learned the past week and may not be of any value. Hope I didn't waste your time.


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## getochkn

It took me about 2 months to cycle a new tank with Netlea brown soil (the planted stuff). I think that stuff is loaded with ammonia though over the shrimp stuff which probably has less as the brown is made for plants, so big ammonia boost off the start. It leech ammonia for about 6 weeks but I didn't do big WC's, didn't use an UGF, didn't use a heater. I do have a huge Eheim Pro 2 2028 on it, so I have lots of room for the little bit of biofiltration that will grow.

About 4 weeks of the tank being setup and the ammonia still leeching at 4ppm, my CRS tank crashed. Maybe I had something on my hand and put them in the tank (I work with electronic and have lots of flux, solder, all kinds of things on my hands sometimes) and started having massive die off's. I had no other suitable tank other than the Netlea tank with 4ppm of ammonia. With a pH of 6 (at the time, I had drops and they only went that low, i know it's about 5.7 now with my pen), I hoped all the ammonia was being converted to ammonium or Netlea uses ammonium as their ammonia base and dumped all my CRS into the tank. I also order the Seachem Free/Total ammonia test at the time and tested a few days later. Shrimp stopped dying, and when I got the test kit i tested and it was 4ppm ammonium, 0ppm ammonia. Eventually the soil stopped leeching, didn't have any shrimp deaths and the tank is my main CRS tank that has been running fine for 7 months now.

I did take out a handful of the soil in a cup, with tap water, waited till the ph got to ~7 then tested and it was 4ppm ammonium, 0ppm ammonia, so maybe the netlea does contain ammonium instead. Not sure and not something I would recommend someone try to put hundreds of dollars of crystals into a tank with that high of a reading, just my experience.


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## randy

I got the Netlea CRS version, except the first two weeks (when I added raw shrimp in the tank) the NH3/NH4 was always about 0.25ppm. So it probably contains much less NH3 than the plant version which makes sense to me.


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## arc

Are you guys sure about the ph numbers you are getting, below 6 ph that is? You may find these link interesting then.

http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/nitrogen-cycle 
Scroll down to the effects on ph on the bacteria.

Also this http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC184019/pdf/aem00065-0210.pdf

From my understanding, anything below 6 ph and you have so little nitrifying active that a small bio load like shrimp combined with plants will never fully cycle a tank. The plants would use up all the ammonium before it could get to nitrite/nitrate. Good think about this is you would not have to ever worry about bacterial infections. I could see and have encountered a few down sides and some longer term issues but they can be addressed.


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## getochkn

My liquid test kits maxs out at 6 and shows that and my pen is calibrated and shows 5.6-5.7 for my netlea tank. Making my own peat filtered water, I can get water down to 4pH. lol.

Bacteria does exist, I get small amounts of nitrates, so there is a cycle going on. I tested my tank along the way and saw the whole proper cycle, it took longer but it cycled. 

Many asian breeders use 5pH for lots of shrimp, TB's being one that do fine in that water.


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## matti2uude

I have a tank that has Ph5 I plan on putting my TB in. I'm sure I could get it even lower with almond leaves. I have another tank that has pool filter sand and Ph6 with using almond leaves.


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## randy

matti2uude said:


> I have a tank that has Ph5 I plan on putting my TB in. I'm sure I could get it even lower with almond leaves. I have another tank that has pool filter sand and Ph6 with using almond leaves.


You use RO/DI water? I think pool filter sand is PH/GH inert, I wouldn't think IAL alone can get GTA tap water to PH6?


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## matti2uude

randy said:


> You use RO/DI water? I think pool filter sand is PH/GH inert, I wouldn't think IAL alone can get GTA tap water to PH6?


In the tank with sand and ial I use tap water aged in a barrel for a week. I was very surprised the Ph was that low too. The other one I use RO/DI remineralized.


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## randy

Thanks for the links, that's exactly why I wanted to play with this Netlea tank and see if I can somehow cycle it -- Cycling in sub PH6 just doesn't work well. So a short summary to my rather long first post is -- to cycle the tank with strong PH lowering substrate is to either get your filter matured in another tank or keep PH higher until some bacteria are established. Although, I don't think those bacteria will get much work to do in sub PH6 water, I think it's better to be safe to have some in case they are ever needed. There is another experiment done by a Belgium lab (I can't find the link, will add it here when I do) proving at least AOB are very tough and won't be starved to death as easily as most think.



arc said:


> Are you guys sure about the ph numbers you are getting, below 6 ph that is? You may find these link interesting then.
> 
> http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/nitrogen-cycle
> Scroll down to the effects on ph on the bacteria.
> 
> Also this http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC184019/pdf/aem00065-0210.pdf
> 
> From my understanding, anything below 6 ph and you have so little nitrifying active that a small bio load like shrimp combined with plants will never fully cycle a tank. The plants would use up all the ammonium before it could get to nitrite/nitrate. Good think about this is you would not have to ever worry about bacterial infections. I could see and have encountered a few down sides and some longer term issues but they can be addressed.


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## randy

matti2uude said:


> In the tank with sand and ial I use tap water aged in a barrel for a week. I was very surprised the Ph was that low too. The other one I use RO/DI remineralized.


I am very curious how this works for you, I want that magic barrel you have ;-) Aging GTA water doesn't lower PH in my experience due to the high KH in our tap, it may get higher or lower after 24 hrs then most likely PH stays where it is. Can you give a bit more info on this tank?

Maybe it is the barrel (what material is it made of?).


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## getochkn

Lot of O2 helps with bacteria at a low pH too.


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## matti2uude

It's not the barrel because I use the same water in my other tanks and they have Ph7.8. It has to be the ial. The tank is a 20 long with pool filter sand a piece of wood some small lava rocks and Najas grass and moss. I have an AC30 with sponges and purigen I also have a #4 sponge filter in there. I have a single T8 18" light.


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## Jaysan

Were you cycling this with a new filter aswell?

I'm currently using Netlea planted soil (might be a different case since I'm guessing you are using netlea shrimp soil) but I had a filtered Eheim 2213 and used about 20% old water from other tanks.
I also squeezed old filter muck into this tank to help grow the bacteria faster.

I'm doing water chagnes every 2 days as I am seeing a heck of a lot of Nitrates and 0 Nitrites. I still see about 1-2ppm of Ammonia but I'm assuming thats just because the filter was originally on a 10Gal so it only has enough bacteria for a 10Gal tank.

I'm hoping within 2-3 weeks, the ammonia will be at 0.


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## getochkn

Jaysan said:


> Were you cycling this with a new filter aswell?
> 
> I'm currently using Netlea planted soil (might be a different case since I'm guessing you are using netlea shrimp soil) but I had a filtered Eheim 2213 and used about 20% old water from other tanks.
> I also squeezed old filter muck into this tank to help grow the bacteria faster.
> 
> I'm doing water chagnes every 2 days as I am seeing a heck of a lot of Nitrates and 0 Nitrites. I still see about 1-2ppm of Ammonia but I'm assuming thats just because the filter was originally on a 10Gal so it only has enough bacteria for a 10Gal tank.
> 
> I'm hoping within 2-3 weeks, the ammonia will be at 0.


I started with very cycled bio media. I didn't do water changes pretty much at all though, so by you doing WC's every 2 days, the pH is going to stay high and let the bacteria grow better as posted earlier, lower pH, bacteria doesn't do as well.


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## Jaysan

getochkn said:


> I started with very cycled bio media. I didn't do water changes pretty much at all though, so by you doing WC's every 2 days, the pH is going to stay high and let the bacteria grow better as posted earlier, lower pH, bacteria doesn't do as well.


ah, gotcha!
I'll keep doing the 2-3 day water changes.
Hoping to see good results in a week or so


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## randy

Jaysan said:


> ah, gotcha!
> I'll keep doing the 2-3 day water changes.
> Hoping to see good results in a week or so


Hi Jaysan, the links provided by arc basically is saying cycling a tank is a moot point in sub PH6 tank so my plan now is to mature the filter somewhere else.

I don't do WCs when cycling the tank in general. I know WC may get my Netlea (yes, CRS version) PH back to 7+ but that's short lived if I turn on my UGF, and without turning the UGF on I might as well use a matured filter. From now on I'll mature the filter somewhere else and consider the tank ready when the substrate is done leaching ammonia.


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## vraev

Very interesting topic. I started my tank around mid april. I actually monitored my readings regularly (until I threw the paper away by mistake), but ammonia actually did raise with brown netlea soil to over 4ppm. Then nitrites were 0, until suddenly ammonia started declining and nitrite rose to very high levels and then started declining. At 0 NH3 and 0.5ppm Nitrite...I started adding livestock. Currently the tank has had these fish/shrimp since one full week and NH3 slightly rose but dropped down to 0 today, but nitrite is still at 0.5ppm...stable. I was doing water changes everyday, but because of fish behavior and stress, I have let it run for the past 2 days now and will do water changes twice a week instead of everyday. The pH here in Hamilton is pretty close to 7., but there is ammonia in tap water + after a fresh water change, pH is 6.8-6.6 for the first day, and then drops to 6.4 (actually may be lower..this is limit of my test kit). I am currently trying a variety of bacteria products ... nothing seems to be accelerating the nitrite breakdown bacteria. I tried using a new test kit (Nutrafin master kit) to check nitrate..but it shows over 50mg/ml or something..don't remember.. (the recommended conc. to do a water change), but the kit does specify that nitrite readings do interfere with nitrate readings.


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## randy

I believe the Netlea brown for plants leaches a lot more ammonia than the CRS version. My CRS version leaches about 0.5ppm only after the first week.

I don't think you have 50mg/ml nitrite, that is about 50,000ppm at which concentration I don't think any fish can survive. Nitrite is way more toxic than ammonia, I myself won't add any livestock in it even at 0.5ppm. That said, my wife's angel tank had at one point over 5ppm with very little fish death, but I won't compare angels to shrimps.



vraev said:


> Very interesting topic. I started my tank around mid april. I actually monitored my readings regularly (until I threw the paper away by mistake), but ammonia actually did raise with brown netlea soil to over 4ppm. Then nitrites were 0, until suddenly ammonia started declining and nitrite rose to very high levels and then started declining. At 0 NH3 and 0.5ppm Nitrite...I started adding livestock. Currently the tank has had these fish/shrimp since one full week and NH3 slightly rose but dropped down to 0 today, but nitrite is still at 0.5ppm...stable. I was doing water changes everyday, but because of fish behavior and stress, I have let it run for the past 2 days now and will do water changes twice a week instead of everyday. The pH here in Hamilton is pretty close to 7., but there is ammonia in tap water + after a fresh water change, pH is 6.8-6.6 for the first day, and then drops to 6.4 (actually may be lower..this is limit of my test kit). I am currently trying a variety of bacteria products ... nothing seems to be accelerating the nitrite breakdown bacteria. I tried using a new test kit (Nutrafin master kit) to check nitrate..but it shows over 50mg/ml or something..don't remember.. (the recommended conc. to do a water change), but the kit does specify that nitrite readings do interfere with nitrate readings.


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## Fishyfishyfishy

matti2uude said:


> I have a tank that has Ph5 I plan on putting my TB in. I'm sure I could get it even lower with almond leaves. I have another tank that has pool filter sand and Ph6 with using almond leaves.


How many almond leaves and how big is your tank?


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## chinamon

randy said:


> After a day with new tap water


great read btw

you can use tap water for CRS? frank told me that i couldnt and need to use RO or rain water.


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## randy

chinamon said:


> great read btw
> 
> you can use tap water for CRS? frank told me that i couldnt and need to use RO or rain water.


When cycling a tank it doesn't matter too much, I don't use untreated tap water for bee shrimps. These active substrate really "sucks", after a few hours tap water turns into PH 5.x and TDS 100 with the help of UGF, without UGF it just takes a bit longer.


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## chinamon

randy said:


> When cycling a tank it doesn't matter too much, I don't use untreated tap water for bee shrimps. These active substrate really "sucks", after a few hours tap water turns into PH 5.x and TDS 100 with the help of UGF, without UGF it just takes a bit longer.


so it would still be better for me to use RO all the time then. i guess i gotta go to walmart and haul a few jugs of that stuff. do you know if the walmart at major mack & bayview has RO?


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## Symplicity

My Canadian Tire has RO water (~10ppm) for $2.00 refills any size jug. So if you happen to have a huge ass jug you can probably make it worth your while. 

Weston and Hwy 7 (Vaughan)


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## randy

chinamon said:


> so it would still be better for me to use RO all the time then. i guess i gotta go to walmart and haul a few jugs of that stuff. do you know if the walmart at major mack & bayview has RO?


I've never bought RO from store. I have back problems I can't lift heavy. I have a RO system at home. They are really cheap if you look around. Mine is less than $150 shipped. And even I could install it myself.

I think what's even better than RO is peat treated water (search a thread in this forum by GeToChKn), easy, low cost, and you don't need to remineralize as much, and it contains a lot of goodies not in RO.


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## razoredge

Symplicity said:


> My Canadian Tire has RO water (~10ppm) for $2.00 refills any size jug. So if you happen to have a huge ass jug you can probably make it worth your while.
> 
> Weston and Hwy 7 (Vaughan)


Didn't realize that Canadian Tire's RO water was cheaper than walmarts. Walmarts at 2.97 for 18litre jug. I'll have to check it out next time i'm in the store.


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## getochkn

randy said:


> I've never bought RO from store. I have back problems I can't lift heavy. I have a RO system at home. They are really cheap if you look around. Mine is less than $150 shipped. And even I could install it myself.
> 
> I think what's even better than RO is peat treated water (search a thread in this forum by GeToChKn), easy, low cost, and you don't need to remineralize as much, and it contains a lot of goodies not in RO.


So far the peat treated tap water seems to be working good, got approx 120 crs/cbs and goldens in different tanks using it and they are fine, breeding, molting, etc. It comes out about 120TDS, pH 5.6, gH 4, kH 0 and I use that in all my crystal tanks. I then mix about 60-40% of that to get it higher for my tigers and yellows and fire reds. Fire reds are doing good, tigers I saw 2-3 berried last night. Yellows still suck, but that's the nature of yellows. lol. I'm going to move them out of being with the Tigers and put them in a small tank on their own and either they will breed or die out.


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## chinamon

so, i started cycling my netlea 10gal tank for BKK around october 14. i started off with a new AC20 HOB and then added a mature double sponge filter around october 16. then i added the ZooMed canister filter a few days ago. 

the ammonia started at 0.25 and remained there for quite a few days and just a couple days ago i noticed it dropped to 0. i have been dosing with Big Als Bio Support as well as Mosura BT-9, Old Sea Mud Powder and Rich Water.

is my tank already cycled? if it is, im guessing it was because i put in a mature sponge filter?


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## randy

chinamon said:


> so, i started cycling my netlea 10gal tank for BKK around october 14. i started off with a new AC20 HOB and then added a mature double sponge filter around october 16. then i added the ZooMed canister filter a few days ago.
> 
> the ammonia started at 0.25 and remained there for quite a few days and just a couple days ago i noticed it dropped to 0. i have been dosing with Big Als Bio Support as well as Mosura BT-9, Old Sea Mud Powder and Rich Water.
> 
> is my tank already cycled? if it is, im guessing it was because i put in a mature sponge filter?


Interesting. What's your PH? I'd be very surprised if a double sponge did the trick. If I were you I'd monitor it for a few days.

Do you test any nitrite and nitrate. TBH, at that low a PH, I won't be concerned at all for 0.25ppm of aommonia, but nitrite is a different story, you just can't have any. Testing nitrate can tell you if the bacteria is working.


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## Jaysan

chinamon said:


> so, i started cycling my netlea 10gal tank for BKK around october 14. i started off with a new AC20 HOB and then added a mature double sponge filter around october 16. then i added the ZooMed canister filter a few days ago.
> 
> the ammonia started at 0.25 and remained there for quite a few days and just a couple days ago i noticed it dropped to 0. i have been dosing with Big Als Bio Support as well as Mosura BT-9, Old Sea Mud Powder and Rich Water.
> 
> is my tank already cycled? if it is, im guessing it was because i put in a mature sponge filter?


wait, are there 3 filters running on this tank right now?
If there is, which one is the final filter?
Reason I'm asking is incase the double sponge filter is decreasing your ammonia and not giving your other filters the chance to create the bacteria themselves?

Test the Nitrite levels like the other person said. With pH being fairly low, the Ammonia is not the dangerous element. It would be the nitrites. If nitrites are 0, check for nitrates to ensure the bacteria is being converted 
If they are converted, remove a filter and check a day later for all 3 ammonia, nitrite, nitrate. 
than remove another one and check with the last filter 
You should be able to get an accurate result that way.


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## MananaP

This is what i don't get, i know people would have different say on things BUT all of my newer tanks which is only a few months old still sits on PH 5-5.4 with ADA amazonia using RO/DI water which has a PH of 6.3. What i'm trying to say is people get so worried about very low PH & forgets the fundamental of keeping/breeding shrimps, what i have learned throughout the years of keeping shrimps is that the less you do the better your shrimps do. A lot of pro breeders in Asia even go to the extent of injecting co2 to lower there PH to 4.5-4.8 range. I know a lot of arguments and scientific proof that lower PH can be an issue propagating BB, however it has worked for me for years so i stand on what i know & works for me. If you take out the mentality of "oh my god my PH is too low for my shrimps, what should i do now" i assure you will have better success than having such mentality everytime you set-up a new tank with a soil that pulls your PH way down to ph4 range. This is but a friendly advice from a fellow hobbyist.

MP


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## MananaP

Oh to make more things interesting, i breed all my TiBee/White Tigers/OEBT on these PH 5-5.5 range. The highest PH i have in all my tanks which is i think 1 year old has a PH reading of 5-5.5 PH. 

MP


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## getochkn

MananaP said:


> Oh to make more things interesting, i breed all my TiBee/White Tigers/OEBT on these PH 5-5.5 range. The highest PH i have in all my tanks which is i think 1 year old has a PH reading of 5-5.5 PH.
> 
> MP


do you keep the gh/kh higher though in the tiger tanks?


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## MananaP

getochkn said:


> do you keep the gh/kh higher though in the tiger tanks?


5-6 GH. KH is still 0...


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## bettaforu

right now my Taiwans are in my CO2 planted tank and PH is definitely bleow 6 as it doesn't even register on my test strip, so could be even lower.

I don't have RO water in that tank, just straight tap water 

What I did when I set it up was to use Shultz's Aquasoil on the bottom, put a thin layer of peat moss (fine stuff not the chunks) on top and then another layer of the Shultz's aquasoil on top. I have an HOB whisper filter and one sponge filter in this tank. 

After 2 weeks I put in my Mischlings to see how they would react to it, as I had big filter shrimps in there with Cherry Barbs for the 2 weeks it was running, and everyone was doing fine (took them out and put them in the other 30 gallon tank with the Killies). Mischlings were all over it exploring and no problems, so last week I dumped in all of the Taiwans...BKK/WR/BB/CWB/ even a BTOE and a CRS SSS...everyone is doing fine in there and now I have a saddled CWB, which NEVER happened in my other tank which had PH 6.2

I don't think its necessary to use RO water, if you can get that PH below 6...jmo
Im not saying not to use it, its up to the individual preference, but I didn't see the point when my PH is below 6, and KH barely registering 1. I also don't bother with water changes or vaccumming etc. I only top up with tap water with Kordon water conditioner added. Once a month I add in some Calcium montmorillionite clay to the water, other than that I don't adjust anything.

Ive tried all of the other soils including ADA, Netlea, Fluval and so far Im sticking with this combination.

Works for me


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## chinamon

randy said:


> Interesting. What's your PH? I'd be very surprised if a double sponge did the trick. If I were you I'd monitor it for a few days.
> 
> Do you test any nitrite and nitrate. TBH, at that low a PH, I won't be concerned at all for 0.25ppm of aommonia, but nitrite is a different story, you just can't have any. Testing nitrate can tell you if the bacteria is working.


i was using treated tap water to cycle and the pH was around 6.5-6.6. the nitrites is at 0 and nitrate is 5ppm


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## jumpsmasher

So this is where all the shrimp keepers in Canada hang out!

My tanks are fairly new but when I redid all of them with ADA Amazonia / Africana around 6 months the pH in tanks ranged from 4.8 to 6.0 depending on the mixture. I was afraid they were too low initially as well but after letting them cycle for 4-6 weeks all my shrimps I introduced to those tanks have been very happy. 

I don't really worry about the pH in my tanks unless I am adding Neos. So far I been pretty impressed with the ADA stuff... not so much that it lowers my ph that low but by the fact it keeps it stable. I find if I keep everything every stable in the tanks (temperature, water level / volume, etc the shrimps are very happy. I dose some bacteria whenever I do a water change and every tank has plenty of aeration from the sponge filters and UG filters. 

I picked a R/O system a while back and I use 100% R/O water for my tanks but we have rock hard tap water here in Calgary and it fluctuates seasonally in parameters and composition. I find it much easier to use R/O water because I don't have to worry what is in the water. 

I remember testing one of my tanks a week after it was setted up and the amount of free ammonia was zero, although the total ammonia was thru the roof.


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## randy

jumpsmasher said:


> So this is where all the shrimp keepers in Canada hang out!
> 
> My tanks are fairly new but when I redid all of them with ADA Amazonia / Africana around 6 months the pH in tanks ranged from 4.8 to 6.0 depending on the mixture. I was afraid they were too low initially as well but after letting them cycle for 4-6 weeks all my shrimps I introduced to those tanks have been very happy.
> 
> I don't really worry about the pH in my tanks unless I am adding Neos. So far I been pretty impressed with the ADA stuff... not so much that it lowers my ph that low but by the fact it keeps it stable. I find if I keep everything every stable in the tanks (temperature, water level / volume, etc the shrimps are very happy. I dose some bacteria whenever I do a water change and every tank has plenty of aeration from the sponge filters and UG filters.
> 
> I picked a R/O system a while back and I use 100% R/O water for my tanks but we have rock hard tap water here in Calgary and it fluctuates seasonally in parameters and composition. I find it much easier to use R/O water because I don't have to worry what is in the water.
> 
> I remember testing one of my tanks a week after it was setted up and the amount of free ammonia was zero, although the total ammonia was thru the roof.


Hope OP doesn't mind me sidetracking a bit. I'm just curious how hard is your water in Calgary. I know the other side of the mountain has pretty soft water.


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## jumpsmasher

randy said:


> Hope OP doesn't mind me sidetracking a bit. I'm just curious how hard is your water in Calgary. I know the other side of the mountain has pretty soft water.


Last time I tested it, pH was around 8.1, gH around 7-8. In the spring time I seen the pH reach around 8.4


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## camboy012406

jumpsmasher said:


> So this is where all the shrimp keepers in Canada hang out!
> 
> My tanks are fairly new but when I redid all of them with ADA Amazonia / Africana around 6 months the pH in tanks ranged from 4.8 to 6.0 depending on the mixture. I was afraid they were too low initially as well but after letting them cycle for 4-6 weeks all my shrimps I introduced to those tanks have been very happy.
> 
> I don't really worry about the pH in my tanks unless I am adding Neos. So far I been pretty impressed with the ADA stuff... not so much that it lowers my ph that low but by the fact it keeps it stable. I find if I keep everything every stable in the tanks (temperature, water level / volume, etc the shrimps are very happy. I dose some bacteria whenever I do a water change and every tank has plenty of aeration from the sponge filters and UG filters.
> 
> I picked a R/O system a while back and I use 100% R/O water for my tanks but we have rock hard tap water here in Calgary and it fluctuates seasonally in parameters and composition. I find it much easier to use R/O water because I don't have to worry what is in the water.
> 
> I remember testing one of my tanks a week after it was setted up and the amount of free ammonia was zero, although the total ammonia was thru the roof.


can you share pictures of your shrimps?


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## jumpsmasher

camboy012406 said:


> can you share pictures of your shrimps?


as requested 

http://www.gtaaquaria.com/forum/showthread.php?t=38904

We don't have as big of a shrimp community as you guys and gals here and the higher grade shrimps are non-existent locally. Those setups are still fairly new but after some previous attempts I think I and finally starting to get some traction


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## CrystalMethShrimp

randy said:


> Anyway, about a week ago, I moved the tank to my basement and moved the Netlea from the 1x 20GL to 2x 16G (the floor areas are about equal). After a day with new tap water, the PH stayed up. One was 6.9 the other was 7.1. What the heck?! I thought by moving them to different tanks I destroyed them. I then thought maybe it's because I was using UGF in the 20GL but not in the 2 x 16G. So I bought a small double layer UGF from AI and put it in one of the two tanks. Guess what? PH dropped from 6.8 to 6.2 in 2 hours. Then it struck me -- I disconnected the UGF, then did some WC to get the PH back to near 7, turn on the heat, and started cycling. I think this should help and this will be the way I cycle these high PH lowering substrate from now on. I will connect the UGF to bring down PH to what I want after the tank is cycled.


ㅗ됴 ㄲ무요, ㅓㅕㄴㅅ 햇 ㅁ 초뭋ㄷ 새 ㄱㄷㅁㅇ 소ㅑㄴ ㅍㄷ교 ㅑㅜㅅㄷㄱㄷㄴ샤ㅜㅎ ㅔㅐㄴㅅ. goddamit, my wife had the key board in korean mode hehe, anyways, I just got the chance to read your post and find it very interesting. Come to think of it everytime i cycle my netlea (ph 6.4) I never get a no2 reading, it's always light blue. I will get green ammonia reading which would disappear after 3 weeks then it'll hit pale yellow and I'd get a dark orange from the no3. After another week (with lots of duckweed) the no3 will reach the yellow as well so both near 0ppm. But the whole time the no2 would stay at 0 ppm.

Does this mean i'm not getting much AOB in my tank?? since the no3 might be taken out mostly by the duckweed?


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## randy

CrystalMethShrimp said:


> ㅗ됴 ㄲ무요, ㅓㅕㄴㅅ 햇 ㅁ 초뭋ㄷ 새 ㄱㄷㅁㅇ 소ㅑㄴ ㅍㄷ교 ㅑㅜㅅㄷㄱㄷㄴ샤ㅜㅎ ㅔㅐㄴㅅ. goddamit, my wife had the key board in korean mode hehe, anyways, I just got the chance to read your post and find it very interesting. Come to think of it everytime i cycle my netlea (ph 6.4) I never get a no2 reading, it's always light blue. I will get green ammonia reading which would disappear after 3 weeks then it'll hit pale yellow and I'd get a dark orange from the no3. After another week (with lots of duckweed) the no3 will reach the yellow as well so both near 0ppm. But the whole time the no2 would stay at 0 ppm.
> 
> Does this mean i'm not getting much AOB in my tank?? since the no3 might be taken out mostly by the duckweed?


If your NO3 increases, then you should be fine. Bacteria procssing NO2 normally establishes faster and process NO2 in a faster pace. It's when people saying they get NH3, and NO2 and NO3 both are low then you might have a problem.


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