# Anywhere in the GTA with good fish?



## Reef keeper

I've noticed a lot of really awful, sick fish coming in lately. Any place around the GTA with healthy fish? Blue face Angels, mimic tangs, etc etc. 

Even anthias that aren't so sick they won't make a week. It's time to add some fish!


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## TBemba

I have yet to find a place with consistently high quality fish. If you or anyone does know a place I'd be happy to know


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## Reef keeper

The quality of the fish really is disgraceful.

I might order in from LA or blue zoo


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## carl

You could buy fish from me, I quarantine for Ich three weeks in coppersafe or chloroquine phosphate and treat for anything else that shows up, I also offer a two week full price guarantee for an extra 20%. If I am not happy with a fish I won't sell it.


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## Bullet

carl said:


> You could buy fish from me, I quarantine for Ich three weeks in coppersafe or chloroquine phosphate and treat for anything else that shows up, I also offer a two week full price guarantee for an extra 20%. If I am not happy with a fish I won't sell it.


That's good to know 
May I ask where you source your fish from ?
Are you importing directly or buying through a middleman / wholesaler ?


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## rmahabir

Hi Carl,
Do you carry any fresh water livestock like swordtails?


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## carl

Bullet said:


> carl said:
> 
> 
> 
> You could buy fish from me, I quarantine for Ich three weeks in coppersafe or chloroquine phosphate and treat for anything else that shows up, I also offer a two week full price guarantee for an extra 20%. If I am not happy with a fish I won't sell it.
> 
> 
> 
> That's good to know
> May I ask where you source your fish from ?
> Are you importing directly or buying through a middleman / wholesaler ?
Click to expand...

Since my fish room is really small and I can't order enough boxes to make a minimum order from an overseas wholesaler I tranship with other stores and pay my share plus a small commission for them doing the paperwork. I also hate paperwork so I am happy to pay someone else to do it for me. I place my order from their suppliers list and then my Boy meets the guy at the airport to get my boxes of fish, you can see my unboxing videos on YouTube, I also buy from the local wholesalers and I also drive to the Florida Keys to get fish. And then I qt the fish in coppersafe or chloroquine phosphate for three weeks before I sell them so that there is no Ich, the inverts I just keep them until they're eating well and looking good before I will sell them. I need fish for my servicing customers and I bring in extra fish for people who would rather buy qt'd fish instead of setting up their own qt tank, plus if they want extra insurance they can buy a 2 week full price guarantee for an extra 20%. It's a lot of work for the money but it's fun for me


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## carl

rmahabir said:


> Hi Carl,
> Do you carry any fresh water livestock like swordtails?


I have a bit of freshwater for my servicing customers but I am mostly saltwater


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## Bullet

carl said:


> Since my fish room is really small and I can't order enough boxes to make a minimum order from an overseas wholesaler I tranship with other stores and pay my share plus a small commission for them doing the paperwork. I also hate paperwork so I am happy to pay someone else to do it for me. I place my order from their suppliers list and then my Boy meets the guy at the airport to get my boxes of fish, you can see my unboxing videos on YouTube, I also buy from the local wholesalers and I also drive to the Florida Keys to get fish. And then I qt the fish in coppersafe or chloroquine phosphate for three weeks before I sell them so that there is no Ich, the inverts I just keep them until they're eating well and looking good before I will sell them. I need fish for my servicing customers and I bring in extra fish for people who would rather buy qt'd fish instead of setting up their own qt tank, plus if they want extra insurance they can buy a 2 week full price guarantee for an extra 20%. It's a lot of work for the money but it's fun for me


Very interesting Carl ... thank you for the information about your business model
But may I ask who are your "local wholesalers" that you refer to ? Assumption is that they are local sources ?


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## Bassick

Bullet said:


> Very interesting Carl ... thank you for the information about your business model
> But may I ask who are your "local wholesalers" that you refer to ? Assumption is that they are local sources ?


Why is any of this your business and why do you care?? As long as he is selling healthy fish at a reasonable price who cares where he sources the fish from? Big Show, the Florida keys, wholesalers, etc.... its all coming from the Ocean


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## Crayon

Bassick said:


> Why is any of this your business and why do you care?? As long as he is selling healthy fish at a reasonable price who cares where he sources the fish from? Big Show, the Florida keys, wholesalers, etc.... its all coming from the Ocean


It's a fair question, and Carl answered it well. We are allowed to ask anything we want, the other person can choose to answer, or not. Bullet, (Sam) is a super nice guy, I am sure he didn't mean anything to upset anyone. It may be more a case of "how many hands has the fish gone through before it gets to you" than anything.

Carl's business model is open, which is refreshing and it helps to understand why he trans ships. In a world with more and more transparency, this industry continues to try and be secretive with their methods.

I have bought from Carl and will do so again in the future. He can get some unusual and delicate fish, which have a better success rate because his set up allows him to separate the fish. He also feeds live baby brine, hatched daily which is amazing.

And not all fish come from the ocean. But you knew that......


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## Bullet

Crayon said:


> It's a fair question, and Carl answered it well. We are allowed to ask anything we want, the other person can choose to answer, or not. Bullet, (Sam) is a super nice guy, I am sure he didn't mean anything to upset anyone. It may be more a case of "how many hands has the fish gone through before it gets to you" than anything.
> 
> Carl's business model is open, which is refreshing and it helps to understand why he trans ships. In a world with more and more transparency, this industry continues to try and be secretive with their methods.
> 
> I have bought from Carl and will do so again in the future. He can get some unusual and delicate fish, which have a better success rate because his set up allows him to separate the fish. He also feeds live baby brine, hatched daily which is amazing.
> 
> And not all fish come from the ocean. But you knew that......


Thanks Crayon and apologies if I offended anyone. 
As Crayon said, I'm just curious as to where Carl's or any sellers (for that matter) fish and corals are sourced. If any seller is sourcing through a middleman, there will obviously be a markup on the price so why not go right to the source if possible to avoid unnecessary costs ? 
The longer that I've been in the hobby I'm finding that everyone seems to be selling the same species at the same time so my assumption is few wholesalers and many resellers


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## Bassick

I am not sure what you are trying to get at Crayon with your last statement. Yes I am aware that we have aquacultured marine fish (clowns, some gobies, basslets, etc....) but the overwhelming majority of the fish in this hobby come direct from the ocean. So again I am sure you have point somewhere in there just not sure what it is. MY point however was Bullet constantly asking for his fish sources after it was explained and it really is none of his business in the first place. Had this been the first post I would have minded my own business but this is at least the third time its happened, and if you dont like how he does business or dont want to be middle manned go elsewhere with your hard earned money. rant over


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## BIGSHOW

Bassick said:


> I am not sure what you are trying to get at Crayon with your last statement. Yes I am aware that we have aquacultured marine fish (clowns, some gobies, basslets, etc....) but the overwhelming majority of the fish in this hobby come direct from the ocean. So again I am sure you have point somewhere in there just not sure what it is. MY point however was Bullet constantly asking for his fish sources after it was explained and it really is none of his business in the first place. Had this been the first post I would have minded my own business but this is at least the third time its happened, and if you dont like how he does business or dont want to be middle manned go elsewhere with your hard earned money. rant over


Well said


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## carl

Bullet said:


> Crayon said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's a fair question, and Carl answered it well. We are allowed to ask anything we want, the other person can choose to answer, or not. Bullet, (Sam) is a super nice guy, I am sure he didn't mean anything to upset anyone. It may be more a case of "how many hands has the fish gone through before it gets to you" than anything.
> 
> Carl's business model is open, which is refreshing and it helps to understand why he trans ships. In a world with more and more transparency, this industry continues to try and be secretive with their methods.
> 
> I have bought from Carl and will do so again in the future. He can get some unusual and delicate fish, which have a better success rate because his set up allows him to separate the fish. He also feeds live baby brine, hatched daily which is amazing.
> 
> And not all fish come from the ocean. But you knew that......
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks Crayon and apologies if I offended anyone.
> As Crayon said, I'm just curious as to where Carl's or any sellers (for that matter) fish and corals are sourced. If any seller is sourcing through a middleman, there will obviously be a markup on the price so why not go right to the source if possible to avoid unnecessary costs ?
> The longer that I've been in the hobby I'm finding that everyone seems to be selling the same species at the same time
Click to expand...

Thank you Crayon, I also think Bullet (Sam) is a super nice guy. I understand the desire to pay the lowest price but I would suggest that buying the best value would be better. A cheap fish that dies costs more than a higher priced fish that lives. Along with my fish, comes my skills and knowledge, during the qt period I teach the fish to eat and become acclimated to tank life which increases the fishes chances of a long and healthy life. Yes, if the fish were bought directly from the person who caught it they would be cheaper, but not everyone has the setup and skills needed to help the fish make a smooth transition from wild to tank life. A fair price for a fish is when both the buyer and the seller are happy with the transaction. When a Fishguy won the lottery and he was up on the stage accepting his big check, the reporters asked what he was going to do with his winnings, he said I will keep the fish room running until the money is gone.


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## Dis

It's always nice knowing where the fish comes from. The more info we know about the fish the better we can care for them.


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## Bullet

Dis said:


> It's always nice knowing where the fish comes from. The more info we know about the fish the better we can care for them.


Agreed - maybe best that if a seller can't identify their source then we should take our business elsewhere
Is it none of our business where any of our purchased items are sourced from ??? Our cars, the food for our famlies, our aquarium equipment ?


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## uniboob

Bullet said:


> Agreed - maybe best that if a seller can't identify their source then we should take our business elsewhere
> Is it none of our business where any of our purchased items are sourced from ??? Our cars, the food for our famlies, our aquarium equipment ?


From what I gather from this thread, Carl clearly states he uses a middle man, which is wholesalers. He also states that he uses tranships and has someone pickup at airport, therefore it never touches the middle mans hands nor tank. Wholesalers do not sell to the public. They usually require a business license and minimum orders. If the wholesaler does sell to the public it is at retail prices, or else other stores would not use them.

Yes it is ok to ask how he orders his fish, but like others have stated this isn't your first time asking.

You are in sales from what I hear, are you a middle man or a wholesaler?

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## darkangel66n

This is why you do not ask and it is none of anyone else's business. http://www.kijiji.ca/v-fish/city-of...ie/1173690903?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true
Carl or any seller has done their homework and made contacts. Why should he or any one else give out information that could lead to competition. It is a business after all.


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## BIGSHOW

Bullet said:


> Agreed - maybe best that if a seller can't identify their source then we should take our business elsewhere
> Is it none of our business where any of our purchased items are sourced from ??? Our cars, the food for our famlies, our aquarium equipment ?


LOL!

You a riot Sam. Keep digging that hole


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## Bullet

BIGSHOW said:


> LOL!
> 
> You a riot Sam. Keep digging that hole


Guess that Dave and Darren win - I've been chased off the forum


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## tom g

*Question*

Nah .... don't let them scare u off Sam. . U are way too valuable to this forum.....


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## carl

Bullet said:


> BIGSHOW said:
> 
> 
> 
> LOL!
> 
> You a riot Sam. Keep digging that hole
> 
> 
> 
> Guess that Dave and Darren win - I've been chased off the forum
Click to expand...

Don't go Sam, we love you bad, you also gave me free advertising about how my qt fish room operates.


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## twobytwo

darkangel66n said:


> Carl or any seller has done their homework and made contacts. Why should he or any one else give out information that could lead to competition. It is a business after all.


I am not a business owner/operator, and compared to some of the others on the site, I'm still pretty green (1.5 years reefing). But the comment above, I can agree with. I can relate to a perceived threat that, as a business owner (especially in a business geared towards hobbyist...) there really isn't a need for anyone to have that information.

Like I said, I don't have as many years vested into this as other hobbyists, but I couldn't care less about the name of the source. If I know fish/inverts/corals were caught humanely (not with Cyanide, dynamite, from prohibited regions) - then I'm cool. I don't really care if it was Joe, Bob or Fred importing the fish. I MAY care, if it was handled lots before getting to Toronto (shipped to the US, rebagged... stopped at the border, inspected, etc...) or from somewhere that has a track record of sick, dying fish - but, I don't buy rare/overly expensive fish, so I'm not in the same shopping boat as others here.

I don't think it's inherently wrong to ask about a wholesaler, but maybe taboo, and not to actually expect an answer (like asking a woman her age - it's not wrong, really). I understand it may be innocent asking, you just want to know because you're curious how old she is - but she (and store owners) don't see it that way.


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## TBemba

I don't think anyone was offended that he asked. But then he became dogged about getting an answer. Mind you he already knows the answer.

I am happy that finally someone called him out on his behaviour. Bullying is never cool.

The great irony is that he is indeed a middle man himself "salesman" he then imo tries to imply that a middleman is of nouse/expensive/ underhanded or deceitful in some compasity .


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## Reef keeper

Still just wondering if anybody here has a place in the GTA where the fish are good when they come in (besides Carl - his stuff is amazing). Sometimes I just want to add a fish, but am sick a tired of buying fish that look good at the store, and when they get to my place, they look horrible and die (yes in QT as well)

I've had a run lately of lousy fish, and it's frustrating.


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## carl

Reef keeper said:


> Still just wondering if anybody here has a place in the GTA where the fish are good when they come in (besides Carl - his stuff is amazing). Sometimes I just want to add a fish, but am sick a tired of buying fish that look good at the store, and when they get to my place, they look horrible and die (yes in QT as well)
> 
> I've had a run lately of lousy fish, and it's frustrating.


What I did before I got into the industry was to visit all the stores and talk to all the staff and find out who knows the fish the best and ask them which fish were doing well.


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## Rookie2013

Trust me Carl is a very good source for fish. I have bought fishes and other stuff off him. The guy runs the business off his basement so we can benefit and avoid quarantining the fish which is not possible for lot of hobbyists. Sam/Bullet I see your point and I don't see anything wrong asking for the first time however it kind of gets overwhelmed when you repeatedly ask the same question. Sometimes I feel forum posts or text messages does not truly portray your intent and sends s wrong picture to others reading it however a personal face to face communication goes a long way and you could have just called him and get your answer I am sure Carl wouldn't mind. But please don't go anywhere you are a nice guy who offers pick and drop for people here when u drive around for your business and as I have said before not many can do this. Hope I did not offend anyone here. Happy Reefing guys/gals the weekend is beautiful enjoy 

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## co1inder

Perhaps I should just shut my mouth as I'm not really an active forum person ... but this thread leaves me feeling pretty sad.


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## tom g

*Sad*

Yes we lost a great forum member to this...


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## Wiser

Why would we lose a forum member to a disagreement? 

It’s pretty clear the intent was to go straight to the source and cut out the local business. It would be one thing if we were getting price gouged, but it is really taboo. Honestly if you came to my business and repeatedly asked who my suppliers were I’d freak. 

Personally, I think the second more important point is value. The lowest prices aren’t necessarily the best value. 

Personally I’ve shifted just about all my dollars to the Coral Reef Shop. I drive between an hour to an hour and a half one way, because I find a ton of value and The customer service is excellent. 


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## Nightstar

We lost a forum member to bullying, plain and simple. It's especially shameful because this is such a small community.

Carl was under no obligation to answer and is a cool dude to boot. I guess some other less cool dudes felt guilty and needed to defend themselves.


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## Wiser

Bullet don’t leave the forum or internalize a disagreement. 

Still some awesome people here. I may sometimes disagree with people, but never want to chase anyone away. Way to small a community. 


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