# HOB converting to a Can



## BJJBlackbelt (Jan 31, 2013)

I figure I'll just ask. If it's a dumb question, oh well.

I had twin aquaclear 110's on my 150 high. I have aquaclear Hob's on all my tanks.

I switched to an FX5 on boxing day.

At the same time I split a tank of 1 to 1.5 year old large cichlids into 2 tanks.

The results were horrible. I lost my favorite black tiger Oscar, my female jack Dempsey and a half dozen silver dollars.

Someone suggested that it was because I dose my prime at tank volume even though I only change 40-50 percent. I admit I put in an extra cap full that time. But we're talking a 200 gallon dose in a 150 gallon tank.

As soon as I put a bubbler in the tank, things improved and the deaths stopped.

My Question is this...

Do I need something to oxygenate the water with an FX5? I didn't have to worry about it with the aquaclear as they were always breaking the surface of the water.

I now have a good 110 and FX5 on the tank and it just seems like overkill.

Please assist me here. No personal theories please, just facts.

I've been giving fish away and selling tanks because to be honest, I'm still torn up about losing my Oscar. I raised him from a baby, hand fed him and was even allowed to "pet" him. Never once bit me, he knew my finger from his food.

I'm now thinking of keeping my 150 and adding a few fish's I've always wanted but was always too cheap to buy. Would just need to re home a 10-12" albino tiger Oscar and a 5-6" Jack Dempsey.

Thanks in advance.

Kev


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## xriddler (Feb 16, 2012)

I have to ask you a stupid question so dont get offended. When you set up the fx5 how much surface agitation do you have?


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## BJJBlackbelt (Jan 31, 2013)

Good question.

Zero.

I would have to shorten the hose and point the out let's upwards to make that happen.

If that's what killed my fish, I'm gonna feel even worse. I was just trying to do the right thing and over filter the tank as they transitioned from juveniles to adults.


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

When you say you "switched" to a canister, what did you do with the old filter media?


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## Jackson (Jan 30, 2009)

BJJBlackbelt said:


> Good question.
> 
> Zero.
> 
> ...


That's most likely what killed your fish.
Adding the air pump is what saved the rest

Prime is not going to kill them even double dose is ok in most cases. Check out seachems site there's a whole thing that talks about prime there. I personally like safe over prime no smell is a huge bonus.


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## BJJBlackbelt (Jan 31, 2013)

solarz said:


> When you say you "switched" to a canister, what did you do with the old filter media?


I ran all 3 filters on the tank for a month which in my opinion was long enough for the FX5 to get all gunked up with bacteria. Then I split the tank.

......

So do I need to raise my water intake to break the surface?

I really don't like bubblers, I try to only use them in emergencies.

And yeah I thought the prime overdose was a funny suggestion, but it came from a good friend that really knows his stuff. Maybe he was just trying to spare my feelings.


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## xriddler (Feb 16, 2012)

You needed the fluval output to make surface agitation to oxygenate the water since you probably had no plants in there. It is different for a planted tank because plants provide some oxygenation and you want less agitation in planted tanks because it degases co2. In my dirt tank i have very little water agitation but it is planted from left to right.


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## BJJBlackbelt (Jan 31, 2013)

I wasted a lot of money on plants with that tank. My main Oscar just wouldn't allow them to grow more than 2" before they got yanked. Maybe it's time to try again.

Thanks guys.


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## Jackson (Jan 30, 2009)

Add one AC 110 if you still have it. That should be enough to not have to use the air pump. 
I use them for that and mech filtration so it's like 2 bonuses


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## Y2KGT (Jul 20, 2009)

BJJBlackbelt said:


> I now have a good 110 and FX5 on the tank and it just seems like overkill.
> 
> Kev


I don't think it's overkill. I used to have an FX5 and an XP3 on my 90 gallon African cichlid tank. I then swapped out the FX5 for an XP4 to save a little electricity.

I have 2 XP4s and an XP3 on my 120 gallon and the fish love the flow. I clean one of the filters every month so never disturbing the bio media too much.

I agree with Jackson, keep the AC110 and FX5 on that tank and you should never have this problem again.
--
Paul


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

I assume you tested ammonia and nitrate levels regularly when you changed to just the canister? If not, you might have had a bit of a spike after removing the AC110's. Basically 1/3 of the bacteria to control levels in the tank were in each filter, when you removed 2 of the filters you removed over half of the bacteria and the canister filter didn't grow the extra bacteria needed fast enough.

Surface agitation could also be a factor. 

The combination of the two might have been what killed fish. It is very important to test levels when making changes like that.

Also, don't waste money on plants. Oscars are very well known to do gardening their own way. I am about to start a SA tank and will try a few plants while they are babies but I know they won't last too long if long at all.


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## Jackson (Jan 30, 2009)

Oh I missed that you're running both. One AC110 might not be enough.
It won't be overkill.

I run 2x2262 and 2xAC110 plus a 900gph powerhead with a floss attachment on my 200 and I'm thinking of adding a third 2262 in the near future. if the fish can handle the flow the more filtration the better I'm my mind.
I also strip them monthly. 
The powerhead weekly.


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## xriddler (Feb 16, 2012)

If my memory serves me well cichlids and plants dont do well together anyways so there is no use putting more plants in your tank. Especially with oscars as they love to rearrange everything. i have to agree with jackson about the filtration. 

Cichlids are one of the species that produce quite alot of waste products and there is never a problem with over filtration but only a problem when there is under filtration. Especially oscars it is recommended that two oscars in a 90 gallon tank receive 2 eheim 2217's as optimal filtration. Sorry i read all this when i was deciding what to do with my 45 gallon long aquarium and did some reading on cichlids/oscar tanks so everything i mentioned is not my experience but others from around the world. So please do correct me where ever i am wrong.


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## zfarsh (Apr 7, 2011)

I agree with others, keep one of the AC110 with the Cannister, this is the best combination for fish tanks. On my 75g tank, i have an AC110, AC70, and Eheim 2217. Granted, one of the AC is not that needed, but i like the over filtration, which also created more agitation.

Unless of course you are very under-stocked, or have a shrimp or plant tank


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## snaggle (Feb 19, 2010)

I had my 150 going for 2 years then one day the out let peace fell off and all the fish where dieing off, I was gone, so my wife was doing water change after water change, the fish would be good for a day then more would die. It took two days for me to clue in that that is what killed almost all my fish.


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## SmokeSR (Jan 28, 2009)

BJJBlackbelt said:


> So do I need to raise my water intake to break the surface?


The FX5 should be enough but the only reason to not run the FX5 and AC110 is if you're concerned with hydro bills. It's definitely not overkill in terms of filtration - it's good to overfilter and have 2 filters so that you can clean each every other water change for more stability.

With canisters, there are different output configurations you can run. You don't use the intake to break the surface - you use the output. Spray bar or nozzle pointed towards the surface from 2-4" below the water level is what I did before but I've converted to all RUGF and use a sponge filter but that's because I was trying to reduce current in my tanks.


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## zfarsh (Apr 7, 2011)

Also, if one dies, you have the other one runing!!!! Also, you can set the Aquaclear 110 for more mechanical, ie Sponge Only or Sponge and Fitler Floss, and the Cannister to a snall layer of Sponge, Filter Floss, and alot of Bio, or even all Bio, (though personally, i put a few sponge in there too, but you dont have to, its up to you). Either way, you would do more cleanup of the AC110 more often, as its the mechanical filter, and also the easiest to clean!!!


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## BJJBlackbelt (Jan 31, 2013)

Hydro isn't a concern.

I have 3 boxes of bio media in the FX5 and a white and blue polishing pad. Of course all 6 stock pieces of foam.

The AC 110 is sponge and bio media.

I just don't believe in carbon once a tank is established. Unless for some reason my water swings and yellows, then I'd run carbon for a month.

I'll just run the FX5 and the AC110 for now. I'm starting to re configure the 150 into the tank I always wanted. That means re-homing a few oddball fish, but that's life. The last 2 are being picked up tonight (I hope), I had to take my time and make sure they went to good homes.


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## SmokeSR (Jan 28, 2009)

How is the output of your FX5 setup? I'd still recommend having that setup properly to break the surface in case the AC110 is removed for maintenance or fails.


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## BillD (Jun 5, 2006)

A couple of things. One , you may decide to make an AC filter strictly mechanical, but if you don't clean it daily it will soon become a bio filter as the bacteria populate the sponge.
As well the entire tank becomes part of the filter as bacteria populate all the hard surfaces.
Two, Prime and other dechlors are reducing agents, which means they react with oxygen. An overdose of prime will reduce the amount of oxygen in the water. The small amount of overdose is not likely to be an issue in this case, but it is a possibilty in in certain instances to cause a problem.


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## zfarsh (Apr 7, 2011)

I just wanted to know who mentioned anything about carbon here?


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## SmokeSR (Jan 28, 2009)

zfarsh said:


> I just wanted to know who mentioned anything about carbon here?


Is that a trick question? The OP did when he mentioned what's inside (and not) his FX5.


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