# Setup problem?



## Modo (Oct 9, 2012)

Can someone tell me if there's anything wrong with this setup please? I had it running for more than a month now. Just added a few Cherries in there yesterday. They all died within a few hours. I checked the water parameter and everything seems normal. Ph - 6. Zero for ammonia, nitrate and nitrite. I don't have a kh & gh test kit, but I thought its not too critical for cherry. Something else must be killing them very quickly. Thanks in advance.


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## Jaysan (Dec 19, 2011)

What is your temperature set at?
I notice you dont have a substrate...
Are you using conditioned tap water, tap water or RO water?
Did you throw the shrimps right in? How did you acclimate the shrimps?
Your filter might not be cycled.


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## Modo (Oct 9, 2012)

One correction, they were Cherries, not CRS.

The temperature is around 25C. I used conditioned tap water. Done a couple of water change since December and mainly just top ups. Used to drip method before I put the shrimps in. The filter has also been running since December. I'm thinking about switching it to a HOB or sponge filter, may be that would allow more bacteria growth? but again, the water parameter tested fine.


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## Jaysan (Dec 19, 2011)

Modo said:


> One correction, they were Cherries, not CRS.
> 
> The temperature is around 25C. I used conditioned tap water. Done a couple of water change since December and mainly just top ups. Used to drip method before I put the shrimps in. The filter has also been running since December. I'm thinking about switching it to a HOB or sponge filter, may be that would allow more bacteria growth? but again, the water parameter tested fine.


When we say the parameters tested fine, that means seeing ammonia change into nitrites change into nitrates.
In this case, you saw zero's in all three categories. That means your filter is not cycled yet. Still though, that may not be entirely the issue of why the shirmps died so quickly. I've had cherrys survive witha bit of ammonia without issues.

You say you use conditioned tap water? How is your pH at 6 of thats the case?
Most peoples tap water in the GTA is around 7-7.8...weird...

I would say either add in pure ammonia into your tank to see if it changes it to nitrates. If you see nitrates, your filter is fully cycled. If it lingers around ammonia, than your filter is not fully cycled. 
Running a filter for a month on a tank with no source of ammonia will not cycle your tank. So see if that works. If not, get a few feeder guppies and have it running for another month to have it cycled with a few fish.


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

Was there any ammonia source while the filter was running (cycling)? If not, it doesn't matter how long it has been running.

However, even if the filter isn't cycled, cherries (or any shrimp) shouldn't die within a couple of hours. Think about it, shrimps can be shipped in a small bag without filtration for days without any issue, your problem can't be directly related to the filtration.

Also, cherries don't like low PH water although they can definitely survive in PH 6 water. How do you keep PH at 6 with tap? Are you using any chemical to control the PH?


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## Modo (Oct 9, 2012)

Oh, forgot to mentioned. You can't see it, but there's crushed Lambo soil under the plastic mesh with moss. So that's probably lowered the Ph level. I also ran the filter in another established tank before putting into this one. Like you said, I had cherries in tanks that wasn't fully cycled and they survived. They died in couple hours is the mystery.


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

Before they died, did they show any symptoms? Swimming frantically to the surface? Rapid breathing? Or just stay static and slowing lay on their side and said good-bye? 

If you have crushed lambo, your ammonia and nitrate being both zero in a relatively new tank is also a mystery.


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## camboy012406 (Jun 11, 2010)

your ph is too low for them.


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## Modo (Oct 9, 2012)

randy said:


> Before they died, did they show any symptoms? Swimming frantically to the surface? Rapid breathing? Or just stay static and slowing lay on their side and said good-bye?
> 
> If you have crushed lambo, your ammonia and nitrate being both zero in a relatively new tank is also a mystery.


I think they were more static and when I returned to check on them, they were gone.



camboy012406 said:


> your ph is too low for them.


I had the cherries in the other tank with my CRS also with the lambo. They seemed to be doing well there too.

I wanted to move them because I'm getting some snowballs.


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

For cherries to die in a few hours, the only thing I can think of is nitrite which is very likely to spike in a tank not fully cycled. I don't think anything else can kill cherries in a few hours. Lambo does leak ammonia, and when they get processed by AOB to nitrite and your NOB isn't ready to process them into nitrate, the concentration of nitrite can kill shrimps. The problem is in a semi-cycled tank, that concentration of nitrite can be gone by the time you test for it though, so they'd become nitrate. Again, your nitrate being 0 also contradicts with this assumption. That, or somehow you have heavy metal in your water such as copper, but not likely in your case.

In general, Neocaridina (cherries, snowballs, ... etc) don't like PH too low (like below 6.5). But that should kill them in a few hours.


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## Modo (Oct 9, 2012)

UPDATE:
I put in a HOB filter from another tank just now. It creates more flow, and stir up the water column. Then I see these little tiny white worms floating around the tank. I'm not sure what they are. Could they have killed the shrimp?
Anyhow, I'm going to take the tank down, wash everything and restart it now.


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

Modo said:


> UPDATE:
> I put in a HOB filter from another tank just now. It creates more flow, and stir up the water column. Then I see these little tiny white worms floating around the tank. I'm not sure what they are. Could they have killed the shrimp?
> Anyhow, I'm going to take the tank down, wash everything and restart it now.


Those are likely nematodes, harmless to shrimps.


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## arktixan (Mar 30, 2010)

My personal opinion would to get rid of the heater.
Question is, where did you get the shrimp? What were the shrimps previous parameters?
Do you know the rough age of the shrimp how did they react before they died (if you noticed) 

It's possible there wasn't enough food for the shrimp. Even after a couple months of a cycled tank it just may not be enough. Anything is possible with shrimp they are so mysterious it's insane. The moss you use where did it come from? How did you wash the mesh etc etc lots of what ifs .

Is it possible your tests failed?

I could keep going lol... 

Another opinion, get rid of that inside of the tank filter (that's what it looks like to me) replace it with a sponge filter. Get rid of the heater unless said room is like constantly under 70.


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## xriddler (Feb 16, 2012)

was the moss store bought? could be another insecticide problem.


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## Modo (Oct 9, 2012)

The moss was bought from a member in, and it's was in another tank for a month or so. 

I put couple of guppies fries I have in the tank to see if it's an issue only for shrimps. Even the guppies died within couple hours. 

So now I took out all the water. Filled it up with water from an established tank, and running a HOB filter. I'll see what happen tomorrow.


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## RONY11 (Jan 6, 2011)

Sorry for your loss. It seems there is something in yr tank that is killing everything.If guppies died within a few hours surely shrimps won't live.

1.Do u suspect an electrical appliance that may be causing the damage to the critters? 
2.Did u add any medicine to the tank or any harmful substance may have leeched into yr tank? 
Guppies are hardy fish and if they died within a few hours I would surely say there is something in the tank killing anyting that enters the tank.

Clean the tank properly, wash thoroughly everything soak in tap water with anti-chlorine solution for 24 hrs atleast and start the cycle again with new water clean filter and equipment.


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

Guppies died in a few hours? Forget all my comments then, it has to be something toxic.


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