# Decapsulated eggs



## Merman (Nov 23, 2009)

....just seem wrong to me and to be honest I'm very leary of using them.

Firstly I have trouble with the idea of using bleach or other chemicals to eat away at the shell containing the shrimp that I'm to feed fish fry..... We take so much time in making sure our tank water is right: pH/no metals used/no cleaning supplies/no chemicals in or around the tank and yet......

I also remember reading, I believe on a site on angelfish/slips my mind right now/too lazy to look it up, of a breeder that used a microscope to look at the internals of dead angelfish fry that had been fed decapsulated eggs and he said that in some cases the shrimp or portion of them were still inside the remaining egg shell, etc.

(...gotta go/will write more later)..


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## BillD (Jun 5, 2006)

This is probably worth discussing. Brine shrimp hulls are known to cause internal problems when ingested which is a good enough reason to eliminate them. Brine shrimp cysts are very dirty to the point of being almost a biohazard (was told this by a respected guppy breeder who knew someone who had them tested). This is verified without testing by taking a sniff of the hatch water when using whole cysts. It is cloudy and smelly after a hatch. Normally one would clean and sterilize hatch bottles before reuse to remove the slime. I have had hydra show up in a tank of angel fry being fed BBS. The only place they could have come from was the BBS. Another good reason for decapsulating. The hatch water from decapsulated cysts smells clean and can be reused up to 2 times before it starts to get funky. 
Decapsulating will give you a true indication of hatch rate, as you will see all the cysts that didn't hatch. As a bonus these unhatched cysts may get eaten. You paid the same amount for these cysts as those that hatched.
The decapsulated cysts that are sold that way will not hatch, but many people swear by them. Personally, my experience with angels (and other fry) is that the live BBS will get more action than the cysts.
So, it would appear that decapsulated cysts are good food as evidenced by the millions of fry that have been raised on them. My personal experience with decapsulating and hatching is all positive, and well worth the small effort on my part. Of course to get maximum benefit the cysts need to be hatched efficiently in as narrow a time window as possible and need to be fed to the fry as soon as possible after hatching. Hatch rates seem to be affected by a number of factors such as salinity, temperature, and light. Decapsulating seems to help with hatch rate as well, which is one more good reason to do it.


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## kousman (Jan 28, 2010)

here is a good read

http://www.angelsplus.com/ArticleDecap.htm


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## BillD (Jun 5, 2006)

Indeed an interesting read. Considering how many people swear by them a little surprising. I always thought that hatched shrimp were better, and this seems to confirm


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## TBemba (Jan 11, 2010)

I like this Popcorn Brine shrimp


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## Joeee (Apr 3, 2010)

The thing that bothers me about the study is that the person conducting the study did not specify the source of the decapsulated brine shrimp. If he decapsulated them himself, then the result does not surprise me. However, he if he bought them decapsulated, then that's another story.

As for using bleach to decapsulate them, well most water conditions can deal with bleach (Seachem Prime for example), so any responsible fishkeeper decapsulating brine shrimp would also add some water conditioner to their end result and let it sit for a bit before giving a final rinse.

Finding decapsulated brine shrimp in the intestines of a dead fish which has been fed decapsulted brine shrimp is no surprise, you'd find fish flakes or any other food that you've fed that fish. For those stuck inside their shells, its just the result of poor decapsulation.

I do wonder how digestible the decapsulated brine shrimp are though, Tbemba brings up the point of cooking the brine shrimp eggs which should make them more easily digestible for the fish.


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## BillD (Jun 5, 2006)

The cysts in question were dried decapsulated cysts of the type bought for feeding directly. That was the whole point of the article.


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## acropora1981 (Aug 21, 2010)

I've been using decap for fry for many years, with no problems. As long as you neutralize the bleach, its all good. Using chemicals in our tanks is a day to day event. Take Seachem's Excel carbon source as an example; that product is actually a diluted repackaged surgical tool sterilizer. Chemicals are a nessesary part of our hobby.

As for shells in dead angelfish fry; if you don't decap for long enough, heck yeah you'll have some fry eating shells. But I'd wager it happens more often from brine that hasn't be decapsulated.


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## BillD (Jun 5, 2006)

acropora1981 said:


> I've been using decap for fry for many years, with no problems.  As long as you neutralize the bleach, its all good. Using chemicals in our tanks is a day to day event. Take Seachem's Excel carbon source as an example; that product is actually a diluted repackaged surgical tool sterilizer. Chemicals are a nessesary part of our hobby.
> 
> As for shells in dead angelfish fry; if you don't decap for long enough, heck yeah you'll have some fry eating shells. But I'd wager it happens more often from brine that hasn't be decapsulated.


These weren't shells in the dead fry but decapsulated cysts. Shells have long been known to be a problem. I can't imagine buying hatchable cysts, decapsulating them and then not hatching them. My angel fry never seemed to care for the unhatched cysts. Then again, there were live BBS available with them, so I guess the choice was easy for them.


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## acropora1981 (Aug 21, 2010)

I never actually bother feeding unhatched cysts - I just find it easier, faster, and less messy, and I get better hatch rates if I decap.


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## kev416 (Aug 22, 2010)

I got eight cans of non hatching shrimp left over from years gone by. I'll never buy cans without knowing the day they were packed. I guess I'll make popcorn shrimp out of them.


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## TBemba (Jan 11, 2010)

So these are no good?

You prefer to use these?


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## acropora1981 (Aug 21, 2010)

that is a shame... I don't breed in huge quantities - I was breeding Bangaii Cardinals, and never had more than about 100 or so eating BS at a time, so I never bought more than a 28g container.


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## acropora1981 (Aug 21, 2010)

TBemba said:


> So these are no good?
> 
> You prefer to use these?


Basically, the first item is not a hatchable product. Its dried decap - and can be used for lots of fish fry, but I always just used decap as a way to get more reliable hatch rates and cleaner hatches, with better energy yields - BS retain much more yolk if they don't have a shell.


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## TBemba (Jan 11, 2010)

Hey Kev416,

Do these things work? because if they did it would be so cool brine shrimp hatch and feeder.

Great idea as well


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## TBemba (Jan 11, 2010)

acropora1981 said:


> Basically, the first item is not a hatchable product. Its dried decap - and can be used for lots of fish fry, but I always just used decap as a way to get more reliable hatch rates and cleaner hatches, with better energy yields - BS retain much more yolk if they don't have a shell.


I found that Cherry Shrimp and dwarf Cory's loved them dried decap's?

The other BS I always had issues with Discus fry getting the shells (i should have decap)
I prefer micro worms and vinegar eels they are easier to keep and effective


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## kev416 (Aug 22, 2010)

TBemba said:


> So these are no good?
> 
> You prefer to use these?


I use to buy cans locally from a fellow and I noticed the cans never hatched after a year in the freezer. So they have hung around. He disappeared and quit the hobby. I always buy a case now from Brine Shrimp Direct. The hatch rate is quite amazing compared to old eggs. Brine Shrimp Direct gave me a sample can of their decapsulated and I noticed it seems to be popped shrimp. They are a deep orange colour like that pic you supplied. As Bill said angels seem to ignore them being spoiled on hatched artemia but baby live bearers love these decapsulated shrimp. A friend who is a guppy breeder uses these popped shrimp over hatched ones being that guppy fry are quite large compared to angel fry and the cans of popped shrimp are quite inexpensive.


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## kev416 (Aug 22, 2010)

TBemba said:


> Hey Kev416,
> 
> Do these things work? because if they did it would be so cool brine shrimp hatch and feeder.
> 
> Great idea as well


I use a no name coke bottle. I glue in a rim using a 500 ml food container cut down and some silicone so the coke bottle has a rim for the lid to stop salt creep and it gives the coke bottle a rigid top. I cut out a circular hole in the lid so I can put in a ridged piece of 3/16" tube to supply air. On the end I put a small piece of air line to expand the rigid tube so as to stop a salt deposit from locking off the air supply.

I never used one of those Tom hatcheries. I can't say whether they are any good. I guess if you don't require alot of shrimp they work well being that you can suspend them in a tank where the heat can make the shrimp hatch quickly.


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## BillD (Jun 5, 2006)

I am using old eggs, that are over 10 years old. I think I am getting close to 50% hatch rate with decap and light. This can has been opened but in the freezer for all those years. I still have 3 unopened cans. Back then, when we bought them from Angels Plus, they came to $12 Canadian including GST.


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## kev416 (Aug 22, 2010)

I guess if I decapsulated them I'd get some to hatch... maybe 50%. But as they are now with shell they don't hatch at all. I still have an old one gallon can of Sander's but I'll probably throw it out. It doesn't smell quite right. I use to buy shrimp for eight dollars a can. But that was quite a while ago. Now the cheapest A grade goes for about $37 dollars a can. Of course there are some who claim to buy it cheaper but they are old eggs from a few harvests ago and need to have their labels removed.


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## acropora1981 (Aug 21, 2010)

TBemba said:


> I found that Cherry Shrimp and dwarf Cory's loved them dried decap's?
> 
> The other BS I always had issues with Discus fry getting the shells (i should have decap)
> I prefer micro worms and vinegar eels they are easier to keep and effective


Do you have a micro worm and vinegar eel culture going? If you do... I would like to get some.


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## TBemba (Jan 11, 2010)

acropora1981 said:


> Do you have a micro worm and vinegar eel culture going? If you do... I would like to get some.


if you are ever in Brantford Pm me


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