# Using an actinic flashlight in a reef shop



## Patwa (Jan 30, 2014)

So I just heard from a good source that some store(s) might be starting to adjust their prices on certain corals if they *see* you using an actinic flashlight to gauge the "true" colouration of a certain coral.

Is there any truth to this?

If so....WOW. From suppliers jacking up the prices of their corals to the point that retailers now have to up their prices substantially (remember when EVERYTHING at a NAFB shipment was $40?), to retailers upping their prices based on what their customers are using to get a better read on the coral's true colours....it's just getting ridiculous.

I've seen some reefers at stores with actinic flashlights shining their lights at corals and never gave it any thought, beyond the "they must be newbies and can't tell blue from teal and red from purple". FWIW i've been in this hobby a long time and i've never once felt a need to carry a flashlight so I can get a better gauge on the corals. I use my eyes, and if the tank lights are seemingly deceptive, I ask the owner if I can move it under other lights.

who here shops in this manner? and why do you do it?


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## fury165 (Aug 21, 2010)

Patwa said:


> So I just heard from a good source that some store(s) might be starting to adjust their prices on certain corals if they *see* you using an actinic flashlight to gauge the "true" colouration of a certain coral.
> 
> Is there any truth to this?
> 
> ...


I do, and what business is it of yours for that matter?


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## Patwa (Jan 30, 2014)

no emoticons I see... so you're being serious? ...fiesty one aren't you?

i'm not making it my business, i'm asking questions by virtue of starting this thread. ...but if you feel i'm unduly treating you and those like you, then you didn't need to respond to my thread...carry on doing what you do...'sall good, fury.

but do us a favour and try to be covert when using your actinic light so you don't screw the rest of us over when the owner jacks the price up....thx


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## fury165 (Aug 21, 2010)

Patwa said:


> no emoticons I see... so you're being serious? ...fiesty one aren't you?
> 
> i'm not making it my business, i'm asking questions by virtue of starting this thread. ...but if you feel i'm unduly treating you and those like you, then you didn't need to respond to my thread...carry on doing what you do...'sall good, fury.
> 
> but do us a favour and try to be covert when using your actinic light so you don't screw the rest of us over when the owner jacks the price up....thx


yeah, i'm funny that way. I answer and you don't like the response, but you feel it is quite OK to attach people because they are noobs?

Perhaps you can explain why this is such a cardinal sin for the 'supposed' shop owners? I would think this is a better scenario than people constantly sticking their hands into the tanks with god knows what on their skin that could nuke the tank.

maybe NFAB doesn't have $40 corals anymore due to the rising costs of airline fuel and shipping.. nah, it is because I pull out my flash light a *seasoned* reefer gifted me.

please, post up a list of items that are cardinal sins so we noobs do not offend Patwa.


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## Patwa (Jan 30, 2014)

oh buddy, this is getting good! I knew the two of us would hit heads one day...I just knew it! I have a feeling you have a wee bit of animosity toward me regardless of the content of this thread...amirite? lol

But i'll leave you to sort that out on your own. I'm here to talk reef, not quibble about the size of our flashlights, k? so sorry, no do's and don'ts list for you today lol



fury165 said:


> yeah, i'm funny that way. I answer and you don't like the response, but you feel it is quite OK to attach people because they are noobs?


where did I "attack" newbies like you? i'm pretty sure I said I *assumed* those few people I've seen using flashlights are new to the hobby and can't see or have difficulty seeing the colours properly (blue/teal, red/purple). If you feel i'm making fun of you, sorry! maybe grow a thicker skin?

of course, if you assume, you make an 'ass out of you and me', so said my gym teacher....so i'll concede defeat on this point, fury. Sincere apologies for hurting your feelings.



fury165 said:


> Perhaps you can explain why this is such a cardinal sin for the 'supposed' shop owners? I would think this is a better scenario than people constantly sticking their hands into the tanks with god knows what on their skin that could nuke the tank.


never said it was a sin. I was asking a question: _who here uses flashlights and why?_ i'm trying to ascertain what the reasoning is behind bringing an actinic flashlight to shine light on a coral that is more than likely ALREADY being lit by actinic and/or full spectrum lighting

and yes, no one shd be putting their hands in a tank. NAFB allows this, but if I ran that store, i'd kick you out of the store immediately.



fury165 said:


> maybe NFAB doesn't have $40 corals anymore due to the rising costs of airline fuel and shipping.. nah, it is because I pull out my flash light a *seasoned* reefer gifted me.


I have no idea what you're smoking, but you seem to be off on a bit of a tangent. Try and stay grounded to the issue as per the thread, although this thread has gone downhill in no time flat lol.

I'm pretty sure the reason why Indo suppliers are jacking their prices up is, in part, due to airline issues. However, the biggest reason is that they see what the US retailers are charging and feel they need a bit more of the pie.


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## fury165 (Aug 21, 2010)

Yes patwa you are right as always. But honored that I am on your radar for butting heads - a pretty low bar if I am perceived as a threat to you. Said my piece to this ridiculous topic and leave you to entertain serious responses. Peace bannus


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## WiseGuyPhil (Jun 15, 2011)

Won't comment on the title of the post but I think your theory is way off. If you have been in the hobby as long as I have you have seen 3 main changes surface.

3 Main reasons why the price of corals are going up:

1) Shipping rates have change drastically over the past 15 years.

The days of playing $0.50 - $1.05 per kg are long over. Now you pay 3-5 times that amount plus an handling and brokerage fee to bring livestock into the country. You take the potential of making 70%-80% profit and you now make actually make 30-50%.

2) Cities

I have known Ken for many years and the fact that it took him almost 5 months to get his permits says it all. The strain on wild caught corals has had a significant impact on the hobby. Now mariculture and aquaculture will only drive the cost up on the hobby.

3) If you name it... people will buy it (this is where I think you should focus your energy on)

I call this the California syndrome. Stick a stupid label beside a coral, give it a porn star name.. and people will buy it like Cottony Candy. Case and point Reef Raft.

Now take point 1 + 2 + 3 and you get the price of coral as it is today. This makes a profits go from 30% to 60%.


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## uniboob (Dec 29, 2012)

I don't see it being a problem, and welcome any flashlights used at my table at expo 

If someone has led, and store has t5, what do you recommend they do?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## WiseGuyPhil (Jun 15, 2011)

100% agree.

I think what the Patwa was getting at was that by having the flashlight in the store, your are giving the store a reason to increase the cost.

The fact is once that flashlight is off the coral, the lighting is still T5 and the next person will see it as is. If the owner then changes the price at that point... he is probably shooting himself in the foot as its not going to help him sell the coral or build any type of loyalty with that customer.



uniboob said:


> I don't see it being a problem, and welcome any flashlights used at my table at expo
> 
> If someone has led, and store has t5, what do you recommend they do?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## altcharacter (Jan 10, 2011)

Why do you feel it's your responsibility to judge how others pick corals?

Basically you are hoping that nobody uses flashlights so you can get top grade corals and cheap prices right?

A simple yes or no will suffice.


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## Sea MunnKey (Oct 2, 2014)

Oh wow ... not taking sides and everyone ... whether right or wrong, plainly state with an open mind if it benefits us all from a reefer's point of view.

Been in this hobby for quite some time and have made good rapport & friendship with most lfs store owners. Most stores charge reasonable prices and some few premium stores charges more or even way more than majority of us can even afford ... let alone dream about it.


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## WiseGuyPhil (Jun 15, 2011)

Well said.

And I agree with their reasoning for charging premium. Most will state its b/c to there quarantine process, shipping costs or the dumb name they give it because that is what marketing is. Its a fact of doing business.

But I highly doubt if you went into a reputable store that they would say that their prices have gone up because of flashlights.



Sea MunnKey said:


> Oh wow ... not taking sides and everyone ... whether right or wrong, plainly state with an open mind if it benefits us all from a reefer's point of view.
> 
> Been in this hobby for quite some time and have made good rapport & friendship with most lfs store owners. Most stores charge reasonable prices and some few premium stores charges more or even way more than majority of us can even afford ... let alone dream about it.


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## tom g (Jul 8, 2009)

*flashlights*

i cant believe we are even entertaining the thought of a store raising prices due to flashlight use I think its absurd ... 
I know my self if this was the case then I wouldn't shop at the store just for the reason that it is pure stupidty .
as for the other point raised where stores allow hands of all sorts to reach into there tanks and grab corals I think is a joke as well..i recently witnessed this on a arrival of a coral shipment and thought it was a joke watching people reach in and grab and "save" there prized coral .
anyways just voicing my opinion on the main issue here I think its a joke .


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## darkangel66n (May 15, 2013)

First off, raising the price would be illegal if the price were posted or already quoted. I use a flashlight because I have bought to many corals that did not look like what I thought I was buying when I got it home. The problem that I hate in shops is a lack of clear pricing on items. When asking a price and the employee is asked for whom the piece is for I know I am not being charged the same as everyone else. I LOVE shopping at Canada Corals because all their prices are clearly posted.


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## Sea MunnKey (Oct 2, 2014)

In all honesty ... seriously folks .... aren't we glad that "We The North" aren't paying way too much as what the Yankees are forking out for measly "One Eye" frags. Imagine the cost of a whole colony (US) ... 

Our "designer" labelled local corals are mostly from local enthusiasts who has the uncanny knack to collect "rare" coral specimens regardless. I gotta give Thanks to these guys ... love or hate them. Everyone's entitled to their personal opinions or preferences and would anyone hate me if my collections are strictly from RR Canada ... just saying. Usually the "quiet" reefer(s) lurking in the background are the ones who has the most to offer ...

And to wrongly think our local coral collection scene isn't as crazy, just you try going to a lfs with new shipment!! I used to wait in line outside the lfs stores even on cold winter's day but not anymore.


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## Patwa (Jan 30, 2014)

WiseGuyAquatics said:


> I think what the Patwa was getting at was that by having the flashlight in the store, your are giving the store a reason to increase the cost.


just to clarify: i don't personally feel that if someone uses a flashlight to gain an advantage that they're doing a disservice to others by allowing the store owner to jack the prices up. In fact, I don't even know if anyone does it in that capacity, or even if a store owner is cognizant of that. It was just something I heard (misheard) from a friend

that brings me to this quote:



Patwa said:


> but do us a favour and try to be covert when using your actinic light so you don't screw the rest of us over when the owner jacks the price up....thx


That was a baseless remark I made as a direct result of the confrontational post by fury. This was based purely on emotion rather than truth, so apologies if some of you construed it as my own...really. I usually fight fire with fire - I don't back down easily as evidence shows in this thread 



WiseGuyAquatics said:


> 2) Cities
> 
> I have known Ken for many years and the fact that it took him almost 5 months to get his permits says it all. The strain on wild caught corals has had a significant impact on the hobby. Now mariculture and aquaculture will only drive the cost up on the hobby.
> 
> 3) If you name it... people will buy it (this is where I think you should focus your energy on)


appreciate the post, but you're off on #2 and 3, imo.

If the Ken you're referring to is the Ken from SUM, why does he have to get CITES? does he export? I'm pretty sure the exporters (those in Indo, etc) are the ones that acquire and secure a CITES permit on the behalf of the importers (ie. retail stores here). Can you clarify?

I would also argue that securing spots on commercial aircarft to bring shipments in are also a bottleneck.

Re: Naming corals: corals have been named for many years....WELL BEFORE the most recent surge in prices (ie. the last 5 years). Do you remember PPEs? Alien Eyes? Purple Monster? Garf Bonsai? Those are corals that started the naming game probably close to 20 years ago.

Naming of corals is/was not the impetus for the incredible prices increases we've seen in the past few years. However, the "name game" has taken on a new life, with issues like coral lineage and branding ("RR", "WWC", etc) compounding and complicating the issue. That's where we are seeing retailers gouging the customer.

RR Wolverine originally went for $350/frag.....some store in Florida found the same coral and sold it for waaay less....but they ALSO called it a "Wolverine". See?



altcharacter said:


> Why do you feel it's your responsibility to judge how others pick corals?
> 
> Basically you are hoping that nobody uses flashlights so you can get top grade corals and cheap prices right?
> 
> A simple yes or no will suffice.


are you and fury related? ...maybe even share the same kitchen table?

Since the day you publicly tried to shame me (only to have it backfire in your face) because I only cooked 4 full racks of ribs for your BBQ and because I should have cooked enough to feed "40 people" I knew there was something fundamentally wrong with you and that you were a person i'd rather not interact with at all costs.

So please, do me a favour and stay out of *any* thread I create. It's for your own good. You don't need to respond...your silence is golden...thanks and God bless.


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## blue ocean (Dec 6, 2013)

I'm agreed , R...... the Top list and second...third ...


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## y4zhuang (Oct 2, 2013)

Patwa said:


> Since the day you publicly tried to shame me (only to have it backfire in your face) because I only cooked 4 full racks of ribs for your BBQ and because I should have cooked enough to feed "40 people" I knew there was something fundamentally wrong with you and that you were a person i'd rather not interact with at all costs.
> 
> So please, do me a favour and stay out of *any* thread I create. It's for your own good. You don't need to respond...your silence is golden...thanks and God bless.


What a self-destructive kind you are... I've heard so many stories... first i thought i was stepping out of my place when i decided to defend colin, who never would have saw your pathetic plee for attention in the first place to give others a chance to judge for themselves.

Anyways, this thread is useless, who cares how people judge if they want to purchase a coral or not. Not all of us have been in this hobby as long as you have and can distinguish the colors under non-actinic lights. You either pay for it or someone else will pay for it. You could try being nice and not overly defensive to people around here and the store owners... maybe then one would want to be your friend and give you what you claim as "fair" prices.

The word noob has an extremely negative connotation... and you wonder why fury would have responded the way he did... Also i don't think Alt deserved that... he simply wanted to know whats your business if someone else has a flashlight. I agree! the only plausible reason would be because they jack up the prices so you can't find the gems for a cheaper price...


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## uniboob (Dec 29, 2012)

In light of this thread, let's just be friends.

Bean Bag Frags table at expo, come and spend $50, and you will have your name entered to win this  name drawn at end of show.










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## y4zhuang (Oct 2, 2013)

uniboob said:


> In light of this thread, let's just be friends.
> 
> Bean Bag Frags table at expo, come and spend $50, and you will have your name entered to win this  name drawn at end of show.
> 
> ...


Not going to lie. you made me burst out laughing at work. We are done. Lets just wait for Patwa to have his last word.... trust me he'll have to have the last word. Oh and i'll be reading it too to give him the satisfaction but no response, bet on it


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

I've locked the thread since you folks can't play nice.


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