# Pressurized CO2



## jamezgt (Feb 17, 2009)

I finally decided to invest my money into a pressurized co2 system. I'm currently using the DIY Yeast method, but I need much more CO2 in my larger tanks.

If somebody could link me to an article, or write some things regarding the set-up and pricing that would be great. Also, opinions on pressurized co2 would be appreciated.


----------



## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

You can get a 5lb CO2 tank at Norwood Fire Extinguishers for $75. A 10lb tank runs you $85.

From here, you will need:

*Regulator*
This controls the delivery of the CO2. It will reduce the tank pressure from 800 PSI to about 30 PSI. There are many different regulators you can look at, such as Victor, Cornelius, Mattheson, Concoa, etc. There are single stage and dual stage regulators. Try to get a dual gauge (note, dual stage is not the same as dual gauge) regulator, so that you can monitor both delivery pressure as well as the CO2 tank pressure (amount of CO2 left in the tank).

*Needle/Metering Valve*
A good needle/metering valve is your best friend and arguably the most important piece of equipment. The needle/metering valve will reduce the pressure from 30 PSI to a few bubbles per second. Again, you have several brands to choose from including: Clippard, Fabco, Swagelok, and Ideal. The latter 2 are probably the "best" brands (i.e. they are ht most reliable and will not float once they are set).

*Solenoid (Optional)*
This will allow you to turn off your CO2 automatically via a timer or a pH controller. Some people like to keep their CO2 on all the time, while others use a solenoid to turn it off at night.

*Check Valve ("Optional" - see below)*
Technically optional, but is required. You don't want water to back siphon and destroy your regulator. Brass ones are better than plastic ones, which will be corroded by the CO2 with time.

*Bubble counter (Optional)*
Will allow easy monitoring of the CO2 flow rate. You can DIY one yourself if you want.

*Drop checker (Optional)*
Allows easy monitoring of the amount of CO2 in the aquarium. Again, you can DIY one yourself or purchase one.

For the regulator/needle(metering) valve/solenoid setup, you can either piece it together yourself (which can be cheaper, especially if you bargain hunt), or buy one that is already preassembled.


----------



## Calmer (Mar 9, 2008)

Pressurized co2 is somewhat expensive but well worth it in the long run. I have been running co2 for well over a year now and I am still happy with it. 
Darkblade48 went through all of the co2 conquest hassle a few months ago and the thread shown below gives a good idea of pricing and what is out there. No stone was left unturned. 

http://gtaaquaria.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7915


----------



## jamezgt (Feb 17, 2009)

Thanks for the information guys.

I currently have the DIY (yeast & sugar) rig up right now, and a hose with an airstone leading to the intake pipe of my Canister Filter. For the time being (until I get my pressurized co2) would it be possible/safe to take the airstone out, and shove the hose into the intake pipe of the canister?

Secondly, does the pressurized co2 have the same concept as DIY yeast method? I would need a hose leading to the tank, with a reactor/diffuser?


----------



## Mr Fishies (Sep 21, 2007)

jamezgt said:


> For the time being (until I get my pressurized co2) would it be possible/safe to take the airstone out, and shove the hose into the intake pipe of the canister?


The big bubbles may result in an airlock in your filter or at least a lot of noise when big bubbles hit the impeller. If you can pinch the line somehow to create a smaller stream of bubbles it will work better. You could also seal the end of the airline (ie: heat with a lighter and gently pinch closed with pliers or similar) then pierce the airline with a nice big needle a few times. Smaller bubbles = more surface area = better absorption + less noise.



jamezgt said:


> Secondly, does the pressurized co2 have the same concept as DIY yeast method? I would need a hose leading to the tank, with a reactor/diffuser?


Yes (or maybe no). You still need to get the CO2 into the water somehow, _but _since you have a canister you may be able set up a reactor (bought or DIY) inline with your filter if it has a decent flow rate.


----------



## jamezgt (Feb 17, 2009)

Thanks.

I just checked Big Al's and they didn't have any cheap power heads (was looking for Rio 600). I was planning to use a power head, sticking the nozzle through a plastic bottle (one of those smaller Pepsi bottles) and then sticking the hose from my DIY yeast/sugar CO2 in the bottle as well.

Should I risk it and remove the airstone from the airline, and shove it in the intake pipe of my canister filter?

Does anybody else have any clever ideas to share?

//edit - I was doing some Googling on DIY reactors and somebody mentioned how he cut the top of a 2L bottle (including the cap), drilled a hole through the cap and inserted his airline that provided CO2. Now would that work, or do I need a flow of water (powerhead)?


----------



## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

jamezgt said:


> For the time being (until I get my pressurized co2) would it be possible/safe to take the airstone out, and shove the hose into the intake pipe of the canister?





jamezgt said:


> Should I risk it and remove the airstone from the airline, and shove it in the intake pipe of my canister filter?


This is fine. Unless your DIY CO2 per second, your canister filter should not air lock. Of course, there is always that risk you take.



jamezgt said:


> //edit - I was doing some Googling on DIY reactors and somebody mentioned how he cut the top of a 2L bottle (including the cap), drilled a hole through the cap and inserted his airline that provided CO2. Now would that work, or do I need a flow of water (powerhead)?


This is more of a diffuser, rather than a reactor. The design that you have mentioned appears to be a passive bell diffuser, not the most efficient way to dissolve CO2 into your tank.

A better method is make a DIY inline reactor, provided that your canister has enough flow. However, this would be better suited for a pressurized setup. As mentioned, for the time being for your DIY CO2, you can simply take the airhose and place it near/into the filter intake.



jamezgt said:


> Secondly, does the pressurized co2 have the same concept as DIY yeast method? I would need a hose leading to the tank, with a reactor/diffuser?


Essentially, yes. From the needle valve/metering valve, you will have some air line tubing (or CO2 tubing, if you are so inclined) to go to the diffuser/reactor.


----------



## jamezgt (Feb 17, 2009)

Great, thank you.

I just did the diffuser DIY. I basically put a hose with an airstone in a plastic cup (I cut it into half) and it's settling on the gravel right now. Should I drill little holes to let CO2 come out on the bottom of the bottle?

And what's the difference between a diffuser and a reactor? Does a reactor involve a current from a powerhead?


----------



## Calmer (Mar 9, 2008)

This is what I am using in my 90gal. tank.
http://gtaaquaria.com/forum/showpost.php?p=23947&postcount=34 
You may want to read the whole thread.
http://gtaaquaria.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3857
I have since modified the bottle part with two bottles and am now using the power head's venturi opening as my co2 input. I will try to get a new picture of the reactor in a bit and link it here


----------



## jamezgt (Feb 17, 2009)

Nice!

I think I'm just going to take the risk and put the airstone beside the intake pipe of the canister.

I'm going to use pressurized co2 for my 135G, and probably a diy reactor/co2 for my 75G. Should I just purchase a cheap powerhead, connect it to a plastic bottle, put my co2 in there with some bio balls?


----------



## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

jamezgt said:


> I...and probably a diy reactor/co2 for my 75G. Should I just purchase a cheap powerhead, connect it to a plastic bottle, put my co2 in there with some bio balls?


As I mentioned in the PM I replied to, two 2L bottles of DIY CO2 will not provide enough CO2 for your 75g.


----------



## jamezgt (Feb 17, 2009)

Thanks for the information Anthony.

I'm going to do the DIY yeast/sugar method and purchase the ladder from Hagen and use it on my 55G.

Also TRYING to purchase an Aquamedic 1000 Reactor + dual gauge regulator with some sort of needle valve and try to split the CO2 into my 135G and 75G.

If anybody could refer me to a website that sells what I need, or actually TELL me the specific brands that are compatible with the Aquamedic Reactor 1000 that would be great!


----------



## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

jamezgt said:


> I'm going to do the DIY yeast/sugar method and purchase the ladder from Hagen and use it on my 55G.


I really recommend against going this route. The main reason is that I find DIY CO2 is already a big hassle with 1 bottle. However, for a 55g, you are looking at at least 2-3 bottles, and swapping one bottle out a week to ensure stability. This would mean costs would accumulate quite quickly.



jamezgt said:


> Also TRYING to purchase an Aquamedic 1000 Reactor + dual gauge regulator with some sort of needle valve and try to split the CO2 into my 135G and 75G.


As mentioned, the Aquamedic 1000 reactor is not recommended for your 135g tank. Since the bubble rate would be set quite high (say 6-10 bubbles per second for a reasonably planted tank), the reactor would not be able to handle the high rate of flow. It may be easier to simply get a 3 way manifold to split the pressurized CO2 amongst your three tanks. Finally, for your single stage, dual gauge regulator, that comes with the needle valve, I would recommend against Clippard needle valves, as they seem to be quite unstable. Some people have had luck with them, but more often than not, people seem to have trouble with them.



jamezgt said:


> If anybody could refer me to a website that sells what I need, or actually TELL me the specific brands that are compatible with the Aquamedic Reactor 1000 that would be great!


My post above mentioned all the "essentials" for a CO2 regulator build. There are no specific brands that are compatible/incompatible with the Aquamedia reactor.


----------



## Calmer (Mar 9, 2008)

Here are the newer pictures of my reactor:
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn61/Calmer_2008/Co2Reacternew1.jpg
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn61/Calmer_2008/Co2Reacternew2.jpg

Also check out the needle wheel thread here:
http://www.barrreport.com/co2-aquatic-plant-fertilization/5809-needle-wheel-diy-modifications.html
It's all in the misting.


----------



## jamezgt (Feb 17, 2009)

Thanks guys.

I got everything figured out. Just need to find a local store (Richmond Hill) to buy a cylinder of CO2. I heard Camcarb had excellent service, but it's kind of far from my house.

Would anyone know anything closer to Richmond Hill?


----------



## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

All the sources I've looked into are either in Etobicoke or in Mississauga. 

There is one in Markham, but they only sell 20 lb tanks (though you can ask them to special order in smaller tanks, but the price is more expensive than if you were to buy directly from source).


----------



## Mr Fishies (Sep 21, 2007)

Darkblade48 said:


> There is one in Markham, but they only sell 20 lb tanks ...


Jamezgt...my $0.02, if you are injecting a 75G is get nothing smaller than a 10lb tank. If you are serious about a manifold/splitter and injecting a 75 & 135...a 20lb is the way to go. You'll spend less gas & time on trips to/from and filling it and a 20lb tank does not cost 4x more than filling a 5lb tank. It seems there's a $10-15 service fee + a few bucks for the CO2.

Filling my 5lb costs $16/17. Since I don't own a 20lb I can't tell you that, but I bet it's no more than $25? Anyone?

I don't run heavy CO2, the tank is rarely above 10-15 ppm CO2, I am injecting into my 75 from a 5G tank and I get <4 months, I wish I had a 10lb or more - I'd just sit it behind the stand instead of under it.


----------



## jamezgt (Feb 17, 2009)

I already got my CO2 system ordered - here's what I got.

CHOICE Regulator
Dual Manifold
2 Bubble Counters
2 Needle Valves
2 Check Valves
1 Drop Checker

And I am supplying CO2 to my 135 & 75G - and yes, I was planning to buy a 20lb cylinder.

Anthony - where is the location in Markham?


----------



## Calmer (Mar 9, 2008)

http://www.hydrotechhydroponics.com/sandbox/index.php/Carbon-Dioxide/View-all-products.html

You pay $125 for the 20lb tank and swap it out for a full one. Save testing the tank every few years and the co2 costs $28.

Scarborough and Markham locations:
http://www.hydrotechhydroponics.com/sandbox/index.php/Location/store-locations.html


----------



## jamezgt (Feb 17, 2009)

I think I'll check out that place on the weekend. Does $125 sound like a reasonable price for a 20lb cylinder?

And would it be possible if the cylinder won't be compatible with my Regulator? Or is that pretty rare.


----------



## Calmer (Mar 9, 2008)

The regulator fitting should be compatible with the co2 tank.
You can take the regulator with you to the store and check to make sure it's right. 
Also you will need a seal for the fitting as well. http://www.bestaquariumregulator.com/CO2.html#seal 
I believe you can sell the co2 tank back to them in the end but I am not 100% sure on that. Ask before laying the money down.


----------



## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

jamezgt said:


> I think I'll check out that place on the weekend. Does $125 sound like a reasonable price for a 20lb cylinder?
> 
> And would it be possible if the cylinder won't be compatible with my Regulator? Or is that pretty rare.


I personally think it's a bit on the expensive side. Norwood Fire Extinguishers sells a 5 lb for $75, and a 10 lb tank for $85...

Do remember that Hydrotech is ordering from Camcarb, and then marking it up so that they make some profit. As I mentioned, the cost of gas to Camcarb or Norwood would be less than the markup that Hydrotech puts on their CO2 tanks.


----------

