# first planted tank after 5 years journal



## planter

*first planted tank after 5 years journal (now a discus grow out tank)*

Ok so here we go. This is the first tank I've setup in years so I'm hoping that starting this journal will also sever as a relearning experience as much as it is a learning experience. I literally decided to setup a tank 2 weeks back and since then I've been going through all of my stored gear and trying to figure out what I need to sell and what I can use. I also discovered I had a lot of stuff I didn't need and that I was missing more than I thought. Anyhow this is what my tank setup look like today

Lights -2 x 39w hagen T5 HO fixture (2 of them) I may be upgrading depending on how they perform

Tank - 90cm x 45cm x 50cm starfire tank (roughly 50 gallon)

Substrate - 36 liters of netlea aquarium soil (3 bags)

Rock or hardscape material- Dragon stone

Filtration - eheim 2213 for now I may add one another later or another type of filter

CO2 - 10lb tank with a atomic v3 regulator and solenoid diffused with one of those all in one in tank glass diffusion things. I am selling a PH controller but I may use it if I can't sell it.

Plants - Hemianthus callitrichoides (HC) - Blyxa japonica - Utricularia graminifolia. I may add another type or substitute something if I can't find what I need.

Fish - I haven't put much thought into it yet but because I won't be running a heater I am going to wait until the tank is stable then decide on something hardy.

Almost everything is setup. I'm still looking for the plants and still need more rock. The rock I hope to sort out this week the plants will hopefully come soon after. I may go the dry start method if I can't find enough plants to properly seed the tank I'll decide once I know

Here is a picture of what I have setup so far. The look will change when I get more rock but you get the idea.

Oh one thing anyone know a good place to buy T5 HO bulbs?


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## skylane

Lookin pretty cool !!! 
Are you doing any carpet plants, ground cover?

Clem


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## planter

Yup I'm going to use the utricularia graminifolia as a carpet.


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## planter

I was able to find more rock and decided to change the layout. I also added the plants HC and UG and I was thinking of going the dry start method route. I planted this back on Thursday. I glued the HC to the rocks. The idea was to spray the HC with a diluted mix of ferts in water mist daily but it didn't work. Most of the HC is dying off. So in a effort to save what HC is left I removed them from the rocks and planted them behind the rockscape. I wasn't sure how the HC would fair when I started to plant it, but I found out pretty quick that you either can't do it that way or I did something wrong. Regardless what's done is done.

For now I'm going to keep growing what I have emersed. I've done this twice before once with success and the other without any noticeable difference in growth for a month. So either way the tank is going to get filled in a month from now.

Tank on Thursday



Tank Today



Moved HC


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## planter

Major update.

The UG i was growing emersed was doing well up until the last week in January when all of a sudden it started melting. I think I may have put too much water a few days prior. I was doing away for a few days so i added some some in fear that the tank would dry out. The HC is still the same as I last left it. here is what it looked liked before I left. I didn't take a picture it but all of the UG in the center melted away

Jan 17



I ended up buying more UG and HC but with the way was the HC was looking (almost unchanged) and with the amount of time I was going to have to wait for the UG to take again emersed. I decided to flood the tank early

Jan 24th



Jan 30th

All of the UG died off but the HC bounced back with a force. I bought one more pot 2 more pots and decided to use just HC for the forground. I also re glued some on the rock was well. I also bought a finnex ray fixture eariler in the week and decided to swap out the lighting today.

Feb 3rd
I started getting what looks to be like green water algae. I'm not sure if if the lighting had something do with it or not but nevertheless it's here. 
also bought 6 SAE to help with some algae that is starting to grow on the glass and rock. I spent the balance of the week doing 25% water changes to try to keep the algae at bay. I also added a second ehiem 2213 filter I don't remember the exact date.

after water change



Feb 6th

I've never had to battle green water algae like this before. every morning before the lights came on the tank looked much clearer then the day before. By the evening it was the same green as the night before. I added some purgien to one of my filters. I also picked up some ludwigia arcuata and some more UG from AI. The UG was a RAOK from one to they Guys at AI. Awesome guy. I figured I can try the UG one more time. I've also reduced the amount to ferts I was dosing to just trace.

I also found out yesterday that SAE are jumpers I lost 3 the day before. I also picked up 2 german blue rams and 1 bolivian ram today



Feb 8th

finally found some blxya japonica and planted it. All the fish are doing well and the plants are doing great. I'm thinking of re homing the SAE's and getting Otto's instead the thought of the ones left over jumping out of the tank does not sit well with me. I also forgot to mention that earlier on in the month I purchased a ehiem surface skimmer it works like a charm.

before blyxa



after

I also moved some rocks around



that's it for now


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## cb1021

Wow you did a really good job with the dragon stone. I really like it. 

Are you getting blue green algae in the aquasoil and along the bottle of the tank? Watch out for that, BGA can take over a tank very quickly and it's very difficult to eradicate.

Also I would take the time now to take a flat plastic ruler/card to level out the aquasoil near the front of the tank. It will make the aquascape much more cleaner. Also when your carpet plant begins to spread, it will be very difficult to flatten out the aquasoil when there are plants covering it.


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## planter

There is a little algae on the soil but it looks like it's green dust the algae eaters pick at it. I'm hoping the tank is a little more stable now that the green water is gone. I'm hoping that the addition of new plants will help. 

The ruler thing is a great idea. I'm giving that a go tomorrow thanks for the suggestion.


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## default

It's looking really nice! Great job battling through the initial algae!

I would however, recommend you scrap the algae at the front under the soil when you attempt to level it out. Then smell whatever tool you used to scrap it and make sure it's not BGA. Is the tank getting any light from a window by any chance?

Also, addition of some Otos and floating plants would help in keeping algae at bay until everything fills in. You may use the floaters as a temporary measure and remove them once the tank settles in. A good species would be salvinia minima or even greater duckweed - they grow shorter roots and allows more light to pass through. Floaters = even more prolific than some algae!


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## planter

Thanks for the advice. What does BGA smell like?

I'm going to give the tank a good cleaning tomorrow. I've considered floating plants. I've noticed no real growth in algae over the last several days now. If that changes I'll give the floating plants you suggested a try. 

The tank sees no natural sunlight at all.


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## planter

I figured out the BGA smells like....

I got up this morning and noticed that it's spreading quickly. Anyone know what's the best way to treat it? I read that hydrogen peroxide or some kind of antibiotic work. will any of those option effect the plants or fish?


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## default

planter said:


> I figured out the BGA smells like....
> 
> I got up this morning and noticed that it's spreading quickly. Anyone know what's the best way to treat it? I read that hydrogen peroxide or some kind of antibiotic work. will any of those option effect the plants or fish?


Totally missed your previous post, I'm sure you know now.. It's one of the most awful smells that can come out of an aquarium. It's very distinct and you won't ever forget it.. 

In terms of treatment, you can try erythromycin, I've personally never used it before, but have read positive articles on the subject. I've also had friends who've used the treatment with success. You could potentially use hydrogen peroxide, as it can kill the bacteria and spike your o2 levels in your aquarium, but I find it needs to stay in contact with the bacteria for a decent amount of time in order for it to kill it. My personal experiments with some emersed BGA has yielded mixed results, even with 35% concentration H2O2, some BGA would still manage to survive and inevitably spread with a vengeance. However, as long as you can maintain good contact (quite hard in water..) you can wipe it out effectively.

The best success I've had with a BGA treatment is a complete blackout, as a single-celled organism, their storage capacities are much lower than your plants; and can't survive long periods of light deprivation. I had a random outbreak a couple years ago in some DHG, it only seemed to like to grow within that area despite being pummeled by ridiculously high currents. I used the blackout method of 5 days and the BGA was wiped out completely. It was easier for this tank as I had it as a display tank in my basement, so not allowing any exposure of light was fairly easy, but if you're tank is anywhere that has any source of light - any ambient light, even a desklamp, the treatment would not work effectively. You would need to cover the aquarium, usually with a garbage bag or a large towel.

Best of luck!


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## planter

Ok thanks. The blackout seems like the simplest method but I'm only afraid that a blackout for 5 days will also wipe out my plants. There is no sunlight on the tank at all but will will have to cover it. 

I will look into erythromycin as an option. 

Will stepping up water changes slow it down?


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## default

planter said:


> Ok thanks. The blackout seems like the simplest method but I'm only afraid that a blackout for 5 days will also wipe out my plants. There is no sunlight on the tank at all but will will have to cover it.
> 
> I will look into erythromycin as an option.
> 
> Will stepping up water changes slow it down?


I find plants do not react poorly to a 5 day blackout, they may require some acclimation afterwards to adjust to the changing conditions - this is where diatom, GSA, hair, and BBA would find it the most opportune to take over; to counter that, have a good sized clean up crew and change the water everyday (20-30%), this is where H2O2 comes in very handy if you notice any BBA or staghorn start to form on your hardscape. The tank I had the blackout on did not stall afterwards, the plants were growing new shoots during the blackout and the growth just accelerated afterwards. Just remember, healthy and robust plants will survive the treatment no problem, struggling plants may take a hit, but it's rare that plants would melt or disintegrate in dark situations. Some plants can survive months in darkness, I've had Hygrophila Araguaia in a cup for two months with no light when I was on vacation, lost some leaves, now in a tank and growing brand new leaves daily.

Prior to your treatment manual removal through water changes can help, especially with the the increased o2 and removal of the main bulk of the bacteria. However, right now, you can start the manual removal and do some water changes with cooler waters - this will increase o2 and by the time you're ready for the blackout, the bacteria should be reduced a great deal.

During the treatment, increased surface agitation or an air pump would be beneficial for your livestock.


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## planter

Thanks Default I owe you one


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## default

Best of luck, keep us posted on your progress!


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## cb1021

Manual removal is best. Also you can put tape along the bottom(exterior) to prevent light from shinning there.


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## Ryan s

nice scape you have there. really like how you have the stones arranged. all the best with the tank.


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## planter

cb1021 said:


> Manual removal is best. Also you can put tape along the bottom(exterior) to prevent light from shinning there.


Never thought of that great idea.

After some consideration and some reading up on the subject I think treating with erythromycin might be the way to go. My wife was shutting the light off when I turned my back. I had to explain to her that the light needs to be kept on or the plants won't grow properly. I'm not about to cover the tank for 5 days in complete darkness lol.

I've been doing daily water changes and trying to scrape as much of it off that I can but this stone is not the easy to clean. I've dropped the temp slightly and reduced the photoperiod. So far I've been able to keep it at bay. I'm going to start treating on Tuesday.


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## planter

I had some time today so I was able to pickup some erythromycin and I started treating the tank. I kept the lights off but with most of the BGA growing on the rocks and inside its crevices I am considering removing all of the rock and scrubbing them down. A lot of the plants are also covered with this crap as well. Which means I will more then likely rescape the tank as I will never get it back to the way it is now.

Which fine with me as I have a great layout in mind.


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## planter

The erythromycin seems to have worked. The BGA has died off though I am still going to treat until Friday. Just a heads up erythromycin is expensive it cost me over $60 to treat for a week at the recommended dosage. Expensive but effective.

I took all of the rock out of the tank today to scrub off most of the BGA. It was impossible to get into every single hole in the rocks. I also removed all of the plants to clean off the BGA. A good sign that this stuff is dead was that it came off the rock rather easy and there was no smell at all. With all of the rocks and plants out I decided to rescape the tank. I split of the HC, Blyxa and replanted. I also trimmed the ludwigia. I'm happy with the new scape. I also added some fish that were sitting in quarantine since Friday last week. I added some more bolivian rams, a small school of celestial pearl danios, some harlequin rasboras and some lamp eye killifish. I think I'm done with fish.

I just finished everything an hour ago and the tank is cloudy from all of the moving around. I will post pictures tomorrow.


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## planter

Updated pictures


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## default

The new scape is looking fantastic!

And congratulations on beating the BGA!


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## planter

Thanks Default.

I'm considering on adding a background. Something simple, all black most likely.


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## default

planter said:


> Thanks Default.
> 
> I'm considering on adding a background. Something simple, all black most likely.


Perhaps a frosted glass sheet? I think a light coloured background would work well for your scape. Just from personal experience, black looks out of place in a planted tank, it looks great with discus and sometimes a biotope, but a rimless aquascape tank would look odd.


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## planter

that sounds interesting. How would I install a frosted glass sheet on a rimless tank?


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## default

planter said:


> that sounds interesting. How would I install a frosted glass sheet on a rimless tank?


They come in rolls that are readily available at HD, Lowes, etc in the blinds and curtain section; you just roll them on behind the tank, usually using a liquid like oil or water to make it adhere. You would need to have clearance behind the tank however, usually just enough to put your hands behind it, but the more the easier.

These come in various sizes and colour (even light shades of grey and black), they will most likely need to be cut to fit properly, it's quite simple for a rimless tank as you cut the exact size into the sheets and adhere it corner to corner. You'll need some patience, but fortunately, these can be peeled off and reapplied as needed, so more than one take might be needed.


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## planter

Just water? Really sounds simple enough just some time and patience I suppose. Is there any advantage using oil instead of water?


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## default

planter said:


> Just water? Really sounds simple enough just some time and patience I suppose. Is there any advantage using oil instead of water?


Pros and cons to both, oil just holds better and is less runny when applied. They sell 'special' oils/grease right beside the rolls in store. Some brands suggest using the particular products, some don't. It's your choice really. Just a heads, I just remembered some brands requirie glue or other permanent adhesives, don't get those, get ones you can easily remove/reapply.

Time is all you need for a project like this. Best of luck.


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## planter

Just an update. I'll try to take some pictures tomorrow. 

I'm still dealing with algae, green spot to be exact. It's slow growing but still there. I also lost a fish my female German blue ram unexpectedly died overnight. No idea why all of the other fish look fine and don't show any signs of stress. 

My HC while growing is not looking all that great the ludwiga is also growing but has lost most of its red. The blyxa is looking great and growing. The Rams keep pulling it out which is simply driving me crazy. I'm going to try to buy some glass tomorrow and place it over the HC. If that doesn't work I may try another plant. 

I going to try several things to help resolve my growth / algae issues 

- Reduce the light period and when I have time, install a light suspension system to raise the lighting. This Ray 2 fixture cranks out a lot of light.

- I'm not feeling confident about this ceramic diffusor I'm using. I've had success with them on smaller tanks. The last time I ran a tank this size I used a large inline reactor which worked beautifully but a reactor that size I feel is too large for the filters I'm using I've ordered a new inline co2 reactor/atomizer which should arrive tomorrow. 

- I may have been a little overzealous with stocking the tank and I may reduce my fish load we'll see...

- lastly I'm going to big Als tomorrow to see if they have any floating plants like large duckweed to help with the light intensity and to suck up access nutrients from the water column. . 

I'm hoping cutting the light, upping the co2 and adding duckweed to suck up excess nutrients will get me on the right path. And of course I'm stepping up water changes.


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## planter

So major update.

Lighting 
I managed to mcgyver a set of legs with coat hangers to raise my finnex light fixture. It sits about 5" over the tank and the light spread is much better now. I also decided to setup my Hagen glo 2x39 watt T5HO fixture as well. I decided to do this to try a different photoperiod. 8hours @ 2x39W with an added 4 hour midday burst with my finnex led. It's been like that for three day now and seems to be working like magic. I also forgot how much nicer the plants and fish look under 6500k bulbs.

Livestock.
I ended up seeking my rams as they were beating the hell out of my HC. I also sold my harlequin rasboas I had 3 jump out of the tank and I was fearing that more suicide jumps my occur again. I also found out what happend to 2 of my lamp eye's they somehow ended up dead in my surface skimmer. I think what might of happened was that I left the skimmer on the max setting and one night they may have gotten too close to it and got sucked in..... The skimmer has since put back down to its lowest setting. I also added a school of diamond neon tetras. Awesome looking fish. I will definitely add more when I find some. I also added 3 otto's and 3 nerite snails to help with algae. And now that the Rams are gone I may add a colony of shrimp, something hardy and cheap. More than likely cherry shrimp.

CO2. I installed the atomizer and it's working great. Between this and the lighting changes in getting crazy pearling from all of the plants and the drop checker is holding steady with a lime green color. I'm not crazy about the millions of tiny bubbles that it produces though. I was hoping not to see that much but it is what it is the plants are loving so for now I'm not touching it.

Tank
I had to remove the rock and scrub it again. I also did a major cleaning of the glass and hardware. I also came to terms that the hard scape I had which I liked made it a nightmare to clean around so I decided to reduce the amount of rock in the tank. I think I may slowly start leaning towards a Dutch style tank but for now I will keep focusing on growing what I have a keep an out out for anything else I like. I also bought and installed a set of glass lily pipes for my second filter.

Plants. 
I passed by a LFS late last week and picked up some plants. More HC to make up for the amount that was murdered by algae. I also found a really nice looking red plant which I learned today from asking on this forum (thanks cb1021) is Rotala Macandra. Apparently a difficult plant to keep (great). It looked really nice and was only $5 for a bunch I figure if try it.

So in a nut shell I keep changing my mind. Thats the problem with one tank you want everything but you only have one tank.

Anyhow I think that's it here is an updated picture of the tank as of today. I still have algae here and there I'm hoping the snails will get to it if not I'll clean it off tomorrow.



Comments, criticism is welcomed.


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## default

IMO I think the tank is looking pretty nice, the right side is a little odd - as the very horizontal rock closer to the centre-right side throws the scape off a little bit. However, once the plants grow in, it'd be much less noticeable, and you can trim the plants to guide the view.

In regards to your skimmer, I'd recommend doing a quick mod that I had on mine before I sold it a while back. The skimmer is great, but without a mod, you'll always risk accidents with any shrimp or small fish, regardless of level of power. I'll attach a picture of what I did to mine, it was a simple - size, cut, and bend with some SS sheets.

Another thing I would recommend is the removal of the Finnex for the time being, you should get high light with just the T5HOs and since you've been moving the plants around, blasting them with extra light is both unnecessary and counterproductive - the additional light will significantly boost algae growth. Those Fluval fixtures have superior reflectors and would be more than capable of lighting your tank alone. If the plants were recently re-rooted or replanted, I would also recommend a photo period of 6 1/2 hrs for the first week, then you can increase by one hour each week until desired time - personally a 7-7 1/2 hr photo period works very well in planted tanks.
Once your plants mature, they will clearly show you whether more light is needed - leggy growth, dominant greens in red plants, and melting/dropping of lower leaves.

It's better to build a strong base of experience on the amount of lighting, co2, and ferts that works for you and your tank by working your way up instead of working your way down - as having a surplus in any part of the equation will throw you off and cause issues, whereas having a demand is a much easier fix.

Edit: oops, forgot to upload the pic, added now.


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## planter

Great a picture would really help. I killed a small strainer today trying to rig something up. Long story short I'm lost a small strainer about an hour of time and I pricked my finger. 

As far as the rocks go I may remove most if not all of them as the plants fill in. I'll take your advice on the lighting and photo period. If the t5's are enough I just may sell the unit as I would have no need for it. 

Just a note. I turned off the filters today to feed my fish and the amount of pearling was insane. I'll try to take a picture of it today or tomorrow.


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## default

planter said:


> Great a picture would really help. I killed a small strainer today trying to rig something up. Long story short I'm lost a small strainer about an hour of time and I pricked my finger.
> 
> As far as the rocks go I may remove most if not all of them as the plants fill in. I'll take your advice on the lighting and photo period. If the t5's are enough I just may sell the unit as I would have no need for it.
> 
> Just a note. I turned off the filters today to feed my fish and the amount of pearling was insane. I'll try to take a picture of it today or tomorrow.


Picture added, completely forgot when I finished the post.


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## jimmyjam

Wow I havent seen you in a while, welcome back.. we all go throgh ebs and flows and looks like your tank is flowing right now.. looks good so far. IT looks like your going with a valley look, you might want to reduce the blyxa in the middle in order to create that valley. Otherwise its looking solid


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## planter

Thanks Jimmy.

The blyxa is growing extremely well. Some are starting to show hues of red. I am going to start to thin it out once the other plants get established.

I added some plants that I bought from default. Super nice guy and really knowledgable. And the the plants were in fantastic shape. I strongly suggest you get your plants from him if he has what your looking for. I added the following.

Eriocaulon Setaceum
Syngonanthus Belem 
Tonina Fluviatilis
Bacopia sp. Japan 
Alternanthera Reineckii 'mini'
Salivina minima

I did some moving around and also removed ludwigia arcuata as the bottom of the stems were not looking so good. I clipped the tops and replanted tops. I also removed some of the ordinal HC that was beaten to hell from all of the algae issues I've had. I also moved all of the blyxa into one spot.


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## default

Thanks a lot for the kind words! 

The tank is looking good, can't wait for it to fill in. I would say the left side is quite dominated by the Blyxa and covering a good bit of the hardscape which throws off the balance a little, perhaps wait until the Belem and AR Mini fills in, they do grow moderately quick and also become quite dense. It will also be interesting how their grow patterns change in your parameters.


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## planter

March 13


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## jimmyjam

looks good so far, how is the hc growing with those lights?


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## vincel892

Whats that thin leaf red/orangey plant in the back middle?


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## planter

jimmyjam said:


> looks good so far, how is the hc growing with those lights?


It's growing but not as lush as I would like it. It's kind of leggy.



vincel892 said:


> Whats that thin leaf red/orangey plant in the back middle?


ludwigia arcuata


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## planter

March 24th





over the last week or so the algae growth has subsided. I'm still getting some but not a prolific as it was. So good news on that end. Plant growth has been hit and miss I am getting growth but not strong healthy growth the plants are looking kind of leggy and thinned out. Also the red color on my plants are not as vibrant as they used to be. I'm guessing part of that was a caused by the algae. I'm hoping they will bounce back. The HC however is growing much better. I was also able to find cherry shrimp at the Hamilton auction for a decent price. I bought 2 bags totaling 90 shrimp total for $30 and added them to the tank. I was worried that there would be a feeding frenzy with I added them to the tank but none of the fish expressed any interest in them at all. Good news. They established a stronghold in the blxya and are doing well

One major change was the light fixture. I bought a exoxotic e90 light fixture. Love this fixture. I had no issue with the T5 fixture but I figured this fixture gives me more flexibility with light intensity and I got it for a great price. I got the fixture from harry muscle here on the forum brand new still in the box.

I was also able to use the mounting legs from my hagen fixture with this one so the light spread is perfect and for now is working very well. compared to the finnex fixture is doesn't seem as bright but the color temp is better (much better) and is much more versatile.

I also added a heater to the tank. Spring is approaching and the temp in the house is going to fluctuate with not running the heat some days and leaving the windows open. I live in a condo so the temp changes happen fast. The heater I'm using now is a jager but I'm considering on getting an inline one simply for ascetic purposes. I'm also considering on not using the surface skimmer but the glass lilly pipes on both of my 2213's do not allow much surface agitation unless I move them every day to account for the water level fluctuation due evaporation and top offs.

I was also wondering what everyone here does for dosing ferts. I'm going to post this question on another thread though.

again comments, suggestions are welcomed.

I


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## vtyou

Neat tank!


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## planter

I finally got around to do a small project that I've been putting off. I installed some trays on the cabinet door.


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## planter

Some close up pics taken yesterday. The HC is finally starting to spread and take off it looks healthy. I beat the crap out of it with growing emersed then submerging. It's survived green water algae, green blue algae, green spot algae, and some other blackish gunk and also several rescapes tough little plant.

Bear with me as my camera skills well for a lack of a better word suck. It's also an iPhone camera. I'm scared to buy a DSLR. I'm afraid I'll start another expensive hoppy. This one and collecting guitars cost enough as it is.

I'm thinking of giving UG another crack. If anyone has any for sale or has seen any at their LFS let me know.


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## planter

On Sunday I decided to suspend my light fixtures. I decided to do this to give me more flexibility. I've run several light fixtures over this tank and I found that a mix of t5's of led looked best. The only problem was that running my t5's and my led's close to the surface was just too much light for my liking. The cost of suspending the lighting from the ceiling was minimal and so was the work involved compared to making suspension system mounted to the tank. Plus now I can get in and out of the tank much easier this way.

I also addressed the background I didn't want that background look but I didn't want to see the back wall so I decided to use a frosted background it's a little transparent but not enough that allows the eye to focus on the wall itself.

I also added a couple more lamp eye tetras as I was down to 3. I also added some forktail rainbows and a bristlenose pleco.

Here's a quick shot I took today before leaving the the house. It's not a great picture as the tank is blurry but you get the idea.



I think I may look into getting a lid made for the tank to prevent fish from jumping. It's really pissing me off

I didn't notice it at the time but now looking at this picture one of my guitars is crooked. I'm going to fix that when I get home.

That's all for now.


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## skylane

Suspended lighting above rimless tanks is the look you want, but fish jumping you definitely don't want! That is a problem, and is there a lid you can buy for this style tank, or do you have to get glass cut and figure out how to mount it on a rimless to keep a nice effect or how it looks on the tank ???
On a display tank you want it to look nice, I'm not sure if they sell glass tops for rimless tanks? This could change lighting intensity, a lid will control evap loss, and keep foreign dust and particles out, as well as keep your fish inside the tank! 
GOOD Luck, your tank came out great, and I like the way you hung the lighting over the tank!

Clem


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## planter

skylane said:


> Suspended lighting above rimless tanks is the look you want, but fish jumping you definitely don't want! That is a problem, and is there a lid you can buy for this style tank, or do you have to get glass cut and figure out how to mount it on a rimless to keep a nice effect or how it looks on the tank ???
> On a display tank you want it to look nice, I'm not sure if they sell glass tops for rimless tanks? This could change lighting intensity, a lid will control evap loss, and keep foreign dust and particles out, as well as keep your fish inside the tank!
> GOOD Luck, your tank came out great, and I like the way you hung the lighting over the tank!
> 
> Clem


Thanks Clem. Actually several companies make clips for rimless tank lids. The problem I have is finding a place to cut the glass to size. I want to cut it to allow space for filter pipes and other gear to be placed on the sides of the tank. I'm not going to cut it myself so it's a matter of finding a place that will cut a custom lid for me.

As far as the light penetrating the lid I can always drop the lights down a little lower to make up the difference. I also have my led light running at about 50% output so it may be a matter of cranking it up a bit.

And that's if I decide to do it. Everything in this hobby has a trade off. Adding a lid will mean it's one more part of the system I need to clean or maintain but I will minimize losses with jumpers and I won't require topping off the tank every other day or so. it also makes accessing the tank more difficult.

So yeah I'm thinking about it.


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## skylane

I don't like the look of them lids, but they serve a great purpose. I have to use them too for the same purpose. It will also protect those nice guitars hanging there too, glad to see you have this well thought out!

Clem


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## cb1021

Rimless/starfire, always a pleasure to look at.


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## Cichlidrookie

Have you looked into a mesh lid with acrylic frame. Lots of SW tanks have them because of the light corals need. Just another option.

Here is a link of the best ones on the market, but it is American.

http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/364554-custom-acrylic-tops-tank-toppers/

Good luck with what you decide.


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## cb1021

In all seriousness, I run a 75 gallon rimless without a lid. The water level on that tank is 5mm below the edge....

It's not necessary but you need to plan accordingly. Some fish like rainbow fish are more susceptible to jumping. While others have no problem. In the 75 gallon, I have over 100 fish in there. I've lost maybe 5? I had considered it a cost of going rimless. 

Meanwhile, I previously purchased 12 Fucata rainbows for a 50 gallon rimless (same as yours), 12 out of 12 jumped out within a couple days. It could be the water or it could be because they just like flying (look at the shape of their fins). 

Anyways, choose your battle. A few dead fish or an ugly lid.


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## planter

I didn't even know those existed. Thanks for the link. Not cheap but it looks great. I'll look into it.


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## planter

cb1021 said:


> In all seriousness, I run a 75 gallon rimless without a lid. The water level on that tank is 5mm below the edge....
> 
> It's not necessary but you need to plan accordingly. Some fish like rainbow fish are more susceptible to jumping. While others have no problem. In the 75 gallon, I have over 100 fish in there. I've lost maybe 5? I had considered it a cost of going rimless.
> 
> Meanwhile, I previously purchased 12 Fucata rainbows for a 50 gallon rimless (same as yours), 12 out of 12 jumped out within a couple days. It could be the water or it could be because they just like flying (look at the shape of their fins).
> 
> Anyways, choose your battle. A few dead fish or an ugly lid.


I've lost about 10 fish and some shrimp to jumping. I'm still contemplating the whole lid thing.


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## skylane

For rimless, make sure your there is no dust, or smoke , air born contaminants, in the area where the tank is. A clean dust free, temp controlled environment, IMO. I've seen things that have gotten in floating on the surface, dust , hair, things just somehow get in, we know already fish jump thats why I use lids. In my open top lids tanks on my bottom and top rack.
The look of an open top is the best looking tank IMO.

Clem


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## planter

I'm looking for some advice. I am going on vacation sometime next month and I was wondering what all you folks who dose ferts and do water top offs daily what you do during and extended absence from home. I'm afraid that if I don't do some prepping or planning I may come home to a cube of algae and dead fish.


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## planter

Major update. I ended up rescaping the entire tank for a number of reasons. I bought a Bristlenose pleco and he ended up completely tearing up all my HC.

I also bought some more plants from the DRAS auction I also picked up a ridiculous amount Eriocaulon Setaceum from defult here on the forum. So with a bunch of new plants and no more foreground to speak of a rescape seemed like a good idea. I also added two cockatoo apistos and a couple more lamp eye tetras. Everything looks off right now. I'm going to let the plants establish themselves first before I give everything a good trim.

The rocks are temporary as they are only there to keep the wood down until its waterlogged. I may add more of this spider wood later on we'll see. The anubias might also go as it may end up in a friends tank.

I have what's left of the HC in a dry grow out tank. I also have some UG in the same tank. I may add them once it grows out a bit.

Plants in the tank right now

Eriocaulon Setaceum
Syngonanthus Belem
Tonina Fluviatilis
Bacopia sp. Japan 
Alternanthera Reineckii 'mini'
Blyxa japonica
ludwigia arcuata
glossostigma
anubias barteri
rotala rotundifolia (I think)
limnophila hippuroides

Plants removed

HC
Rotala Macrandra
Salivina minima


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## cb1021

Haha nice. You need more tanks!


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## planter

I wish I had the space for a grow out tank.


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## vincel892

What did you do with all your ohko stone? I'd be interested in buying one or two pieces from you if you don't need all of them


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## planter

I still have it. I'll let you know if I decide to sell any


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## planter

OK final rescape.... I think. I'm very happy with it. I may tweak it a bit as time passes but I think for now its going to stay

I really need another tank....


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## skylane

Nice growth , like the Apisto in the pic , very nice man!!!

Clem


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## cb1021

Some Xmas Moss on that driftwood branch would look super nice.


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## planter

Just an update. May has been a very busy month for me.

I traded some AR mini with cb1021 and decided to use it for the center foreground. I also moved the bacopia Japan to the front. I figured with the Rams and the apistos being fish I really want, having thicker tougher plants up front will be easier to maintain long term. Here is what the tank looked like in the first week of May.



With the month being so crazy and the fact that I was gone for over a week on vacation I decided the best thing to do was to lower the light intensity and photo period to 5 hours a day about 50% of what I had it at. I also dosed micros and macros once a week. The tank did very well under these conditions overall. When I got back from my trip last week the only plant that has seemed to have suffered the change in light was the Eriocaulon Setaceum. So I increased the photo period slightly. The limnophila hippuroides also lost all of its red hues but no big deal.

Also moved some things around. I'm thinking of adding another 1 or 2 more plant species but I haven't figured out what or where I want to place it.

Here is an updated shot as of today



Here are some shots of the Rams and apisto just cause


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## default

Tanks looking good, shame the Eriocaulon is acting up though, it should bounce back without any issues - I do recommend re-topping them, the bottom will most likely never recover.

Did you confirm the species of the mystery red stem plant?
And also, are your SAEs consuming any of the Rotala Wallichi?


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## planter

default said:


> Tanks looking good, shame the Eriocaulon is acting up though, it should bounce back without any issues - I do recommend re-topping them, the bottom will most likely never recover.
> 
> Did you confirm the species of the mystery red stem plant?
> And also, are your SAEs consuming any of the Rotala Wallichi?


No I never did if it is RM I would have thought that it would have started to grow and look like the orginal RM I had. It's still growing yellow But with more red and green then when I first planted it. Then again I have changed the lighting and dosing schedule and the tank is more mature now so that may be its growing the way it is. But I have seen pictures or RM online that look both the orginal batch I had and this one. Whatever it is I like it. I haven't noticed my SAE eat any plants nor have I seen any evidence on the plants indicating that they are being eaten.


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## planter

I added some regular AR to the middle I'm hoping to blend the mini with it once it fills in. The Eriocaulon was moved to the back right I've replanted the tops and spread them out a little more to try to give them the space and light they need to grow. Im not sure if its going to boucne bace its in rough shape. I also planted some water wisteria behind the AR where the Eriocaulon used to be in an attempt to fill out the back center of the tank. I also moved the belem and did a massive trim today.

I'm toying around with a idea of a different scape again... God I need another tank.


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## planter

I did some slight adjustments I ended up losing the eriocaulon so I decided to move the Najas in its place. I moved the driftwood to the back left I'm going to let the hippuroides fill in around the driftwood for now.

I may rescape in a month or two. I dunno what to do though. For how I'm going to let it grow in wild and see how it turns out.


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## planter

Crazy month for me and I kind of let things grow in and I decided to give HC another go. Everything is kind of growing wild and doesn't look all that good right now.

I also got 4 discus juvies. I cranked the heat to 81for them I'm going to see how the livestock fairs with the increased temp but as they grow I may remove most of the live stock to make space for the discus. I took a few shots of the discus and the rams. Once the discus settle in and I see which plants are OK with the warmer water I'll rescape the tank.


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## jimmyjam

good luck with the hc,, its hard when you have to maintained good water parameters for the discus... hc loves high nitrates... plus its also hard enough to get it start going in the middle of a setup.


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## cb1021

Wow rams look sharp. Discus need some recovering.

Btw if you plan on rescaping your whole tank, let me know. I could be in the market to buy plants in bulk for my own 75 gallon rescape.


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## planter

cb1021 said:


> Wow rams look sharp. Discus need some recovering.
> 
> Btw if you plan on rescaping your whole tank, let me know. I could be in the market to buy plants in bulk for my own 75 gallon rescape.


Yeah those pictures were taken when I got them. I've had discus before and like these ones it's takes a lot of time for them to get comfortable in a new tank. They are finally starting to eat and are showing a lot better now. Let the heavy feedings and multiple weekly large water changes begin. I have 4 for now I may get one more once clear out some of their tank mates.


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## planter

jimmyjam said:


> good luck with the hc,, its hard when you have to maintained good water parameters for the discus... hc loves high nitrates... plus its also hard enough to get it start going in the middle of a setup.


Yeah I know I've got a challenge ahead of me. I've always wanted a densely planted discus tank so figure I'd give it a go. The tank is sitting at 82 right now right at the upper limit for some of the fish. I'm not so sure how the plants will do in higher water tempratures but to be quite honest I'm more concerned about maintainning my O2 and CO2 levels at that temperature more then the nitrate levels. I know that warmer water holds less gas in general so I'm worried I'll gas the fish if I cranked the co2 any higher. If the HC or other plants dont make it I'm OK with that there are plenty of plants I can use that are less demanding.

I've raised discus before at 82 deg so I'm confident that the temp is not hurting them. I may have to look at getting a bigger tank once they start reaching adulthood but that is some time away.

I've kept 4 discus before in a single tank and they were fine I didn't have a bully in that tank. However I've kept larger groups in larger tanks and had aggression problems. I remember this one colbalt blue that was just a prick. He beat on all the other ones. Go figure. I'll monitor how they behave and adjust accordingly


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## cb1021

Updated pics of discus? 

You mentioned you had some plants die off. Do you think it's because of temp or just sudden decrease in co2/light. It's hard to image it's either....


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## planter

I'll post updated pictures soon.

Yeah I lost the syngonanthus belem and the tonina fluviatilis is starting melt. Where heat is concerned I think it's indirectly contributing to the problem. I think my co2 level is out of wack. With rising the temp I had to fiddle with my co2 setting which prior to increasing the temperature I had dialed in pretty good. I doubt the lighting is hurting anything I've grown these plants with similar lighting conditions months back.


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## cb1021

Those plants are sensitive. I've had both, melt king. 

You need to get a dual stage regulator. Single stage regulators are toooo risky especially if you value your fish. Now my co2 is on lock with dual stage regulator. Before I was adjusting on a daily basis.


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## planter

cb1021 said:


> Those plants are sensitive. I've had both, melt king.
> 
> You need to get a dual stage regulator. Single stage regulators are toooo risky especially if you value your fish. Now my co2 is on lock with dual stage regulator. Before I was adjusting on a daily basis.


I have a green leaf single stage. I won't get end of dump of co2 with this regulator and the needle valve is decent.


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## planter

OK major update.

I lost some plants species due to the changeover to discus. I did add some new ones and did a total rescape.

I lost to date both the Syngonanthus Belem and the Tonina Fluviatilis

I added some Lobelia cardinalis "Dwarf" and some Pogostemon helferi to the tank.

Also regarding the discus I ended up returning 3 of them as they didn't look very good from the get go and went getting much better. They were also very skidish. I picked 4 larger ones around 3.5 to 4 inch in length. So far so good. There is no bulking and they are behaving like discus should.

Here are some pictures







Here is a picture of the new scape Im really happy with it. Ithe turns out withe all of the replanting and moving I lost quite a bit of HC so in an effort to try to make the most of what I had I replanted the HC stem by stem. Let me tell how fun that was. Thank God for long tweezers.

I figure if the HC doesn't take I may replace the substrate with a thin layer of sand where the HC is now.

I also love getting feedback on the scape so don't hold back



Also on a side note I noticed that my prize male German ram has some white spots on his face. It's not ick I've dealt with ick before and these spots are larger and only on his face. Any idea what it is? I'm going to setup a qt tank for him tonight but I'm not sure what to treat for.



Anyone thoughts what this is? I'm inclined to belive it's some type of fungus but I'm not sure.

That's all for now


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## cb1021

Wow that new scape looks fantastic. You're inspirating me to do a similar scape where one size is sloped waaaaay high.


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## planter

Thanks man that slope wasn't easy it took hours to do. My wife suggested to make another slope on the opposite side but is didn't have the plants, soil, time, and stomach for it. Maybe down the road


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## slipfinger

Scape looks great! One of these days I'll start a Journal.

Keep us up to date on the growth of this one..


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## planter

Hey everyone,


I'll post pictures soon but not much has changed. I'm in the process of aggressively trimming the tank every 3-4 days on the fast growing plants and when needed on the others to get them to fill in super bushy. 

Fauna update

I scored a huge blue knight discus at the peel auction yesterday not the prettiest fish but very cool nonetheless. My niece named him Shrek when she saw him. Kids lol.


I ended up losing most my electric blue ram and my german blue ram to disease (posted on another thread) the EB got pop eye and the other died to hole in the head disease. I just never had luck with these fish long term. I've had them spawn one month then belly up the next month. I'm considering on pulling out the females and just focus on the discus for now. 

The discus also ignore the cherry shrimp where the rams do not. I'm also considering on getting some amano shrimp to help with clean up and algse control but the wife is scared of them. They remind her of her mortal enemy the common centipede lol.

Plants

The HC is taking a beating from the discus they have all got into a habit of picking and pulling it up. It's an uphill battle and I'm losing. It's too bad cause it's really looking green and if they would leave alone would be doing really well by now. I may just use the bacopia to carpet the right side. I'd really like to build another slope on the right side but I'm going to wait on that for now.

Other stuff

My new glass lilly pipe set came in earlier last week the last set were broken while doing maintenance on the filter. I really like the look but like anything else the prettiest things are other the things that are a PITA to deal with. I've installed them on the filter and I'm happy with them for the money I spent.

I removed the driftwood. I was getting tired of using carbon and purgien for the tannins. The wood wasn't leaching much but i am super picky about those types of things and it was another thing to worry about. 3-5 waterchanges and trimmings a week is enough work. So with the driftwood gone a added another large rock in its place.

I was also toying with the idea with converting the filtration to a sump. Just to give the discus more water volume. I'm just concerned about how to handle the co2 end of it. I would also have to build a new stand and possibly drill the tank. (More research is required). I figure if I can use a 40 breeder as a sump that should be enough water volume to keep the discus happy long term in this tank but again so will a larger tank. I may move next summer to a bigger place so everything is up in the air right now.


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## planter

I lost the new discus yesterday. I can't explain why it suddenly died. It was fine one day then I noticed it started getting darker also had a thick slime coat. It also started laying on its side. I did a 70 percent WC and it was dead by the morning. A real let down


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## infolific

Sorry to hear about the discus. I've had angels go downhill quickly.

I hope you can convince your wife about getting amanos. They might hide during the day so maybe sightings will be rare.

How was the auction? Would you say it was a place to get good deals on fish you could get elsewhere or more of an opportunity to see fish not often seen in stores?


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## Dis

Sounds like you need a quarantine tank. It will help you monitor the fish before putting any others at risk. Goodluck with future purchases, never nice to lose fish


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## cb1021

I found discus to be emotional. They get stressed easily. Having some hiding places helps. They can get stressed in open water with bright light. 

Also watch for co2 levels and ammonia spikes


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## planter

infolific said:


> Sorry to hear about the discus. I've had angels go downhill quickly.
> 
> I hope you can convince your wife about getting amanos. They might hide during the day so maybe sightings will be rare.
> 
> How was the auction? Would you say it was a place to get good deals on fish you could get elsewhere or more of an opportunity to see fish not often seen in stores?


Yeah about the amanos I'll probably end up.getting them anyway God help me if one decides to jump and is found dead by her lol.

The auction was good I went to a peel auction several years back and compared to this one it was much smaller. There was a lot of people there. Seems like there are a lot of people into live bearers in this area. Tons of fancy guppies and nezzie swords. Also lots of BN plecos. Some stuff like plants were sold a little high IMO. But some stuff went really cheap. I think someone scored a 30 gallon with a stand for $14 or something like that. It really depends who's looking for what that day I suppose.

I did find a supplier that had dead bonsai trees. I've wanted to get my hands on one for some time. I wasn't crazy about the ones he had left there but he said he had more. I may pay him a visit one of these days.



Dis said:


> Sounds like you need a quarantine tank. It will help you monitor the fish before putting any others at risk. Goodluck with future purchases, never nice to lose fish


I have one he was in there for a couple of days but I felt my QT tank was too small for him so I decided to risk it and added him to my display tank. I don't think QT methods played a detrimental role here. But if I had a larger QT tank it may have helped who knows.



cb1021 said:


> I found discus to be emotional. They get stressed easily. Having some hiding places helps. They can get stressed in open water with bright light.
> 
> Also watch for co2 levels and ammonia spikes


I know that's what most people say or experience with their discus but I don't see signs of stress in the group. Maybe even I'll add some floating plants and see if their behavior changes.

I've been changing the water like crazy but I feel something is going on losing 2 rams and a discus to illnesses so quickly has me concerned. I've been doing 70 percent water changes every day since I lost the discus.


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## planter

Updated pictures taken today


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## philipraposo1982

So much equipment, I feel it's takes away from the beautiful scape and fish.

The tank is very nice though

Sent from my SM-N900W8 using Tapatalk


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## Wiccandove

Beautiful tank and nice discus!


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## planter

philipraposo1982 said:


> So much equipment, I feel it's takes away from the beautiful scape and fish.
> 
> The tank is very nice though
> 
> Sent from my SM-N900W8 using Tapatalk


I know I'm going to be setting up another canister filter with glass lilly pipes. Then I'll remove the powerheads. The heater cable at the back will eventually disappear once the plants on the top right fill in. The skimmer for now is staying. I've always had a problem with surface scum in my high tech tanks.


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## bigfishy

What kind of water do you use? tap?


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## planter

Yep straight tap water


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## bigfishy

planter said:


> Yep straight tap water


Use RO water, if you don't have RO water, then use rainwater. If you can't find rainwater, use distilled water from the supermarket. Don't change the whole tank right now or it will kill everything. Use it in small amount of water changes to dilute the water or as an auto top off.

It control the algae growth and it is better for the discus / ram's growth and coloration in the long run.


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## planter

bigfishy said:


> Use RO water, if you don't have RO water, then use rainwater. If you can't find rainwater, use distilled water from the supermarket. Don't change the whole tank right now or it will kill everything. Use it in small amount of water changes to dilute the water or as an auto top off.
> 
> It control the algae growth and it is better for the discus / ram's growth and coloration in the long run.


I don't think this is a good method for me. Rainwater is no an option as I live in a condo and I would have a very difficult time collecting it.

I'm not going to buy that much water. I'm changing at least 50% of the water every other day sometimes more. I'm not going to buy that much water in the long run. I've grown out discus in much harder water (kitchener) using tap water without any issues.

If I have to go this route I'll be honest I'd rather sell the fish and restock the tank as I know that I would not be able to mange this.


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## planter

Just a quick update. I've now completed the right side of the tank I had to add another 5l of soil and I used up all of my rocks plus I had to buy a few more. I also I'm going to give ludwigia arcuata another go. So I picked some up and planted on the far right. I basically split all of the other plants from the left and added them to the right. I'm not able to take a photo showing depth but the tank looks deeper in person then the picture shows. I know that for now the rock on the top right looks funny but it's hiding the surface skimmer. I also.intend on picking up at least one or two more species of plants for the right side. Depending on what I buy or decide on I may adjust that rock or add a couple more the balance it out.

I'm toying with the idea of adding some type of val species to the two back corners and let them cover a large portion on the surface. Just to suck up extra nutrient and provide some shade for the discus.

Here is an updated picture.



As always critiques are always welcome.

.


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## cb1021

Looks amazing


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## planter

Thanks cb1021


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## default

Looks great!

Some personal opinions on some plant placements and species recommendation:

- The right side is interesting (looking straight on), but it's a little bare, with the equipment in that corner already, if you're able to provide more foliage, it could help with the overall layout. You don't necessarily need to hide equipment, but just have some "distraction" behind so it's not sticking out at the viewer. The large vertical stone is ballsy, but it draws your attention towards the top and at your Koralia, and kinda out of the tank.
I would recommend trying some larger taller species that would provide some colour and bulk, (e.g. Hygropila Pinnatifida, Limnophila Sessiliflora, Floscopa Scandens, Cryptocoryne Balansae (or other tall species), and even Jungle Vallisneria).

- The Lobelia sp. in the rocks may not be the best species to use for that purpose, Lobelia tends to stay 'intact' and is very beautiful in large groupings, but some Staurogynes Repens or Hydrocotyle sp. would be better at breaking up stones. Or perhaps use the Bacopa sp. Japan there?

- Following the last point, perhaps a smaller leafed foreground could make your scape feel 'larger', grassy would be great, or if you don't mind trimming; Glossostigma would be guaranteed to work.

- I'd recommend adding some green to the stones, Dragon stone works great with Mini Pellia or Weeping Moss. The light addition of green to the stones would look even more natural.


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## planter

Hey Default yeah I was thinking of adding taller stems or vals to the right side. I just need time to get back at it and start looking for some. I like your plant suggestions. Yeah I like glosso but man it can really take over a tank quick. Plus I had the discus pulling at the HC which drove me crazy. I don't want the same thing to happen to the glosso. I might try it anyway and see what happens. I really like the Cardinal plants but I'm not sure where else to put them. They aren't doing as well as the other plants but in the last two days they seem to be bouncing back. I'm hoping to give some decent coverage around the tall stone so that it's not so obvious. As far as moss goes I think it's too late for that if I move the rocks the slope will collapse. 

I'm still having trouble envisioning what the final plan is for the tank. I'm going to keep the scape the same way but over the next couple of weeks I intend on moving some stuff around. I'm definitely going to add vals or something like that and let them cover the waters surface.


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## default

The glossostigma would be a much better choice for tanks with fish that like to redecorate, just plant longer nodes and trim then down once rooted. They a root fairly quickly so there should be no issues initially, trimming long term is both fun and tedious..

Look into Mini Pellia, you won't need to remove stones for planting, just squeeze into a ball, insert, and it'll expand and fill the holes in the stone. Or create 'plugs' similar to coral plugs, but with small stones and moss.


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## Darkside

Wow the mini Pellia is a beautiful plant!


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## Fisheye

Beautiful tank and fish! My only critique is that it's at your house and not mine...


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## planter

Well just a quick update. 

A few days of neglect and the tank now is an algae farm. 

I think that the best thing to do right now is to tear the tank down and set it up to raise the discus properly meaning substrate and plants out.

It's been very difficult to manage this tank. There simply isn't enough water volume to keep everything in check.

I may be moving to a bigger place this year so I'm not in position to buy a large tank until I know where I'm moving. 

I'll be setting up another smaller tank or 2 that will be planted in the upcoming weeks.


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## default

What sort of algae are you dealing with?

It's too bad, the tank was looking pretty sweet, but discus and plants can be a difficult mix sometimes.


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## planter

No idea some kind of black sludge.


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## default

That doesn't look too friendly, looks like GSA mixed with Staghorn.
Is your temperature above 30C?


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## cb1021

W-O-W 




10char


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## planter

No the water is sitting at 27


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## planter

Well it's done.

The 50 gallon is stripped. Just the discus and 2 blue rams in a bare bottom tank with potted vals. I've cranked the heat to 29 and I'm attempting to feed 3-4 times a day. 

Once they are grown out I'll have a better plan for them. 

The freakin tank looks like the lobster tank at loblaws what wadda ya gonna do

Some side notes I've setup a small 7 gallon tank for my shrimp. I'm not sure what happened but my shrimp population was decimated. I had 100s of cherry shrimp at some point last year in this tank. I was able to find 12. The 7 gallon tank is for them and some amanos I've recently purchased. I'm hoping to rebuild my colony in this tank. I'll post pictures in another thread. 

I'm also in the process of setting up a 13 gallon in hopes keeping a Dutch style / grow out tank.


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## planter

Here is what the tank looks like today.

I must say the discus seem much happier. I'm currently feeding 3x a day and doing a daily 50 - 70 percent water change. I swear they've grown in the last 2 weeks.


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## Fisheye

Your discus are so gorgeous!


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## planter

Fisheye said:


> Your discus are so gorgeous!


Thanks

Some more close up shots







I may have stunted these fish during the 2 month period I kept them in a planted tank. The eye to body ratio seems a little off but then again that's what I thought when I grew out my first batch of Discus years back and with the exception one one all grew over the 6" mark. Time will tell.

Any discus pros please chime in do they look stunted? I know the little red turk is for sure but how do the others look?

Not having a dark substrate really makes a difference. the colours pop much more in a bare bottom tank. I'm going for a low tech planted tank with a thin layer of white sand once these guys grow a bit more.


----------

