# Altum Angelfish - $28



## Holidays (Apr 18, 2010)

Saw a bunch at Dragon aquarium, twonie + size...might be of someone's interest. They look quite stunning, nice shine, dark strip, reddish fins absolutely gorgeous, they're wild caught though.


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## Lee_D (Jun 11, 2010)

They must have gone fast. I was there this morning and didn't see any. Did I miss them?

Lee


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## dl88dl (Mar 8, 2010)

Or they must all gone to fishy heaven


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## Holidays (Apr 18, 2010)

Lee_D said:


> They must have gone fast. I was there this morning and didn't see any. Did I miss them?
> 
> Lee


they're in the tanks where most of the salt water tanks are stacked (opposite side from freshwater)...did you ask?



dl88dl said:


> Or they must all gone to fishy heaven


they can be reincarnated


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## Lee_D (Jun 11, 2010)

Ok, I found them. There were three left this morning. They didn't look in good enough shape to survive the trip home though.

Lee


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## kev416 (Aug 22, 2010)

300 altums came into Toronto last week almost all of them died. Sad to say. Perhaps we should rethink whether we keep them or not. It seems like a slaughter of wild caughts.


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## Holidays (Apr 18, 2010)

kev416 said:


> 300 altums came into Toronto last week almost all of them died. Sad to say. Perhaps we should rethink whether we keep them or not. It seems like a slaughter of wild caughts.


they're all wild caught...some do survived and acclimated to Toronto water, but they fetch a high price.


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## Bwhiskered (Oct 2, 2008)

The resaon most altums die is that they are not properly aclimatized to our water. They need to be put in soft acid water when they first arrive. Lots of mopano wood that leaches lots of tannin. They are then slowly switched to tap water over a period of several weeks. A friend of mine had some that were properly aclimatized and he had them for several years before he tired of them and sold them. They grew to 10" high with tap water changes twice a week. If you want healthy properly aclimatized altum contact Spencer Jack in Winipeg. He got in a box a couple of weeks ago and they all sold. http://cichlaholic.com/ The local fish stores know nothing about fish and the wholesalers dump them fast before they all die because most won't take the time or have the knowledge.


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## Altumnut (May 12, 2010)

I have to totally agree with Bwhiskered. I know who he is talking about and I still have my original ones which are 7 yrs old. 
I also have a group from last year which I got at dime size which are now 3"-4" body only.
I prepared my tank ahead of time...ph 4.5 to 5 and 40ppm hardness and temp at 90F.
Did not lose one.

...Ralph


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## Lee_D (Jun 11, 2010)

The ones at Dragons are in a brown water tank so it looks like they tried to drop the pH. No idea if they were successfull or not. Mostly they had broken / missing fins and clamped tails. An indication of chemical as well as physical trauma.

Lee


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## Lee_D (Jun 11, 2010)

Hey Altumnut,

How did you manage to get the pH down that low? I've been adding Muriatic Acid for over a week now and everytime I get it below 7 it pops back up again the next day! I'm beginning to think my gravel is made of Calcium Carbonate. Next experiment is to add some acid directly to some gravel and see if it dissolves.

Lee


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## Altumnut (May 12, 2010)

Hey Lee,

Yes i did use Muriatic Acid. In addition I brewed up a batch of aged water/RO that contained filtered peat, almond leaves, and alder cones. At one point, I had ph down to 4.1 
High temp and lots of O2. Not to big of a tank...max 25g and had two #5 sponge filters with lift tubes and cranked the air. Did not use any meds to treat them. 50% w/c every day for two weeks.
The first mistake often made is they open up fish bags and wait. That will basically fry your fish with Ammonia.

...Ralph


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

Lee_D said:


> Hey Altumnut,
> 
> How did you manage to get the pH down that low? I've been adding Muriatic Acid for over a week now and everytime I get it below 7 it pops back up again the next day! I'm beginning to think my gravel is made of Calcium Carbonate. Next experiment is to add some acid directly to some gravel and see if it dissolves.
> 
> Lee


It likely means your kH is pretty high, so it is resisting pH swings. Try using RO water.


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## Lee_D (Jun 11, 2010)

I think I'm being to gentle with it. I put 1.5 ml of Muriatic acid in a 10 gallon container and mixed it with 7.5 gallons R.O., the rest tap. The pH dropped below 6.0 and stayed there.

I mixed 5ml of acid in a 2L juice container and slowly added it to a 125 gallon tank. pH didn't budge. Tried it again a couple of days later. pH dropped to 7.4 then bounced up again. I'll try it again this weekend.

First, I was surprised at how much only 1.5 ml of acid moved the 10 gallons. Now I'm surprised how little it moved the 125 G. Guess I just need to be patient.

The fish don't seem to mind. The only visible difference I have noticed is that the tails of my Pristella Tetra's have turned a really cute red colour.

Lee


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

It really just depends on what your kH is. If it is high in your 125g tank, then it will resist any pH swings. It is easier to lower your carbonate hardness, and then use smaller amounts of acid to change your pH. I'd never try to change the tank water itself, but do as you suggest: modify the pH in water that you intend to do water changes with. This way you will slowly change the pH.

I mean, you could always just keep dumping muriatic acid into your tank until the pH moves, but you might have to dump quite a bit in.

Easier to do some large water changes and use pure RO to lower your hardness. Obviously, the amount will depend on your current kH and your desired level.

Your method (in regards to your measurements) might seem to make sense, but what was the kH the 10 gallons of water you tested with? What is the kH of your tank? Because of these unknowns, your measurements don't really show you anything. I doubt (although possible!) that your tank water is 75% RO (ie. 75% has a hardness of 0dkH - not that you could ever measure it like that!).

Does this make sense? I can elaborate more if you want.

Cheers.


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