# A newbie seeks help for a temporary tank



## rfmcdpei (Jan 26, 2008)

Last Sunday, I bought two goldfish from a stall in the Pickering Flea Market as part of a kit include a one-gallon tank, some gravel and a plastic palm tree. That night I learned that goldfish require much more, and since then I've been actively doing my best to keep them alive.

I'll be buying them a larger tank towards the middle of the month of February when I have the money. For the time being, my energies have concentrated on keeping Bert and Ernie alive. I bought a filter Tuesday and have kept it running since then, I have a siphon for water changes, I have dechlorinator (Aqua Plus) and the Cycle nitrifying bacteria package, and I have the chemical test kits. My nitrites seem to be at a low level, but both ammonia and pH levels were high. I've added a double dose of Cycle to the tank, and will be doing testing and a partial water change tomorrow morning.

What else should I be doing? Would adding plants be a good idea in light of their ability to recycle wastes and produce oxygen?


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

Plants can't hurt, but I'm not sure what sort of plants you could grow in there...

You could grab some stem plants, like any sort of hygro, and they might help a bit...or duckweed if you can find some.

A 10g tank is pretty cheap too, might as well just save your $$ and get a tank/filter and tada!

Most goldfish are pretty hardy though, so don't worry too too much! I have about 4 goldfish outside in the pond that recently (when the filter broke down) totally froze, and when the ice thawed, 2 of them are still fine. Amazed me anyway...


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

Oh...and I should mention that adding a buttload of chemicals etc. will probably do more harm than good.

Water changes (and make sure you dechlorinate it) should suffice, I'd just be careful to try and match the temperatures.

Don't worry about adding anymore of that bacteria crap (I personally think the stuff is a waste of money). Once the bacteria establishes itself in the filter, it should help bring down your nitrites, nitrates and ammonia levels.

As for your pH, anything between 6-8 should be fine for your fishies. The only thing to look out for is if your pH is swinging, like going from 6-7 or 7-8 in a day. That is what will kill them.


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## Katalyst (Jul 29, 2007)

What you need to do is get some established media or a seeded filter sponge from someone who has an established tank. I keep and breed goldfish and can help you out with some cyled media to help jump start your cycle. Without this they are going to end up with high nitrites, nitrates and ammonia spikes which is extremely damaging to their gills/swim bladder if not lethal.

What kind of goldfish do you have?

What type of filter did you get?

If you have 2 goldies don't waste your money on a ten gallon the need more room then that. Get yourself a rubbermaid for the time being, they work great in a pinch. Goldfish such as comets, commons, wakins, shubunkins need 20 gallons per fish. Fancy goldfish such as orandas, ranchu, lionheads, pearlscales etc. need 15+. Your best bet is to get a rubbermaid (30 gallon or higher) and save up for a 30 gallon.

Don't waste your money on that cycle stuff. What I would reccomend you spending your money on is this:

Prime water dechlorinator
Air pump

You are welcome to come by my house and get some media to put in your filter. Just bring a bucket. Someone did the same thing for me when I was in your shoes so I'd be happy to repay the favor and help save your little guys.  Just shoot me a pm.

This is a great goldfish site/forum.

http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/forum/index.php?act=idx


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## rfmcdpei (Jan 26, 2008)

Katalyst said:


> What you need to do is get some established media or a seeded filter sponge from someone who has an established tank. I keep and breed goldfish and can help you out with some cyled media to help jump start your cycle. Without this they are going to end up with high nitrites, nitrates and ammonia spikes which is extremely damaging to their gills/swim bladder if not lethal.


That's definitely a concern for me right now. I've exchanged some of the water and put in some cycle, but apart from that my only thought is of adding some plant--duckweed has been recommended--to help with the processing of Bert and Ernie's byproducts.



> What kind of goldfish do you have?


Both are commons.



> What type of filter did you get?


I bought an Elite Mini for the one-gallon tank.



> If you have 2 goldies don't waste your money on a ten gallon the need more room then that. Get yourself a rubbermaid for the time being, they work great in a pinch.


Something like this?

http://www.canadiantire.ca/browse/p...4443294260&assortment=primary&fromSearch=true



> Prime water dechlorinator
> Air pump


I have the dechlorinator, I don't have the air pump.


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## Brian (Mar 14, 2006)

go to www.pricenetwork.ca and go to the classifieds.

you'll find cheap tanks and filters there... usually 1$ a gallon.


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## Katalyst (Jul 29, 2007)

For commons you need 20 gallons each unfortunately. Commons are the athletes of the goldfish world. I'd get the rubbermaid and a filter that turns over 400 gallons per hour. An airpump is really required. Start checking out price network aquaria for tanks and airpumps, there's always a deal to be had.


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

rfmcdpei said:


> but apart from that my only thought is of adding some plant--duckweed has been recommended--to help with the processing of Bert and Ernie's byproducts.


Sorry, I really didn't intend for you to assume adding duckweed, or any plants for that matter, are going to save the day. I think in this case, the help it will really do is negligible, especially in comparison to the suggestions others have given (water changes, larger tank, etc.)


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## Katalyst (Jul 29, 2007)

Honestly your best bet is to bring them to a pet store until you have the set up those type of fish need, otherwise they are going to suffer and end up stunted. Its upsetting I know, I had to do the same thing when my mother in law dumped 15 commons on me without warning and I didn't have the room to care for them. I brought them to a pond store and they were happily accepted.


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## Waninoko (Jan 13, 2008)

rfmcdpei, are you from PEI?


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## Brian (Mar 14, 2006)

Waninoko said:


> rfmcdpei, are you from PEI?


This isn't a necessary post and is considered spam... if you want to ask him something unrelated to the topic than PM him. Thanks.

On a side note, I suggest you either get a bigger tank ASAP or do as Kat suggested.


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## Veryfishy (Jan 28, 2008)

In addition to the other suggestions given, the first thing you should do is stop feeding them. Your fish don't need to eat everyday anyways, and until your tank is cycled (that is, the filter is mature), feeding them causes all sorts of problems, as it leads to high ammonia levels.

When you want to feed them, do a big (80%) water change about 10 minutes after, and again later that day.

In general do water changes daily while your filter picks up steam (grows ammonia-eating bacteria).

Goldfish are tough as nails... yours will be fine! Good luck! If your room is warm, they probably won't even need a heater.

(and the other poster is right, buy a cheap 5 or 10 gallon tank, and your guys will be happy. 1 gallon is much too small).


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## Katalyst (Jul 29, 2007)

Veryfishy said:


> In addition to the other suggestions given, the first thing you should do is stop feeding them. Your fish don't need to eat everyday anyways, and until your tank is cycled (that is, the filter is mature), feeding them causes all sorts of problems, as it leads to high ammonia levels.
> 
> When you want to feed them, do a big (80%) water change about 10 minutes after, and again later that day.
> 
> ...


Actually a 10 gallon is WAYYY to small for these guys. They need 20 gallons each. Goldfish are tough but they will have perm gill and swim bladder damage from the cycle will suffer and end up stunted in a 10 gallon.


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## Veryfishy (Jan 28, 2008)

Fair enough - bigger is always better! But don't delay in getting something bigger than your 1gallon in the meantime... it will be hard to keep them healthy for any length of time in a 1g.


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

Katalyst said:


> Actually a 10 gallon is WAYYY to small for these guys. They need 20 gallons each. Goldfish are tough but they will have perm gill and swim bladder damage from the cycle will suffer and end up stunted in a 10 gallon.


I always thought that goldfish were somewhat like turtles in that they will grow based on how much room they have. I know there are ideal situations for every fish, but if a fish is stunted, is it unhealthy or just smaller?

The only experience I have is in our 40g pond outside, which houses around 8 or so goldfish (they were feeder goldfish). They have been there for about 4-5 years (until the pond froze completely this year, killing half ) and grew quickly in the first couple of years, then just stayed about the same size (7-9 inches).


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## Katalyst (Jul 29, 2007)

Chris Stewart said:


> I always thought that goldfish were somewhat like turtles in that they will grow based on how much room they have. I know there are ideal situations for every fish, but if a fish is stunted, is it unhealthy or just smaller?
> 
> The only experience I have is in our 40g pond outside, which houses around 8 or so goldfish (they were feeder goldfish). They have been there for about 4-5 years (until the pond froze completely this year, killing half ) and grew quickly in the first couple of years, then just stayed about the same size (7-9 inches).


Unfortunately the idea that goldfish will only grow to its surroundings is a myth. Goldfish produce more waste then most fish, so that is part of the problem of putting a goldfish in a 10 gallon tank and expecting it not to grow. My mother law is a repeat offender of this and often dumps her fish off on me when they have gotten to big or so sick from being in that tank that she decides I can then take care of them. So pardon my bitterness in this post, I've seen more goldfish neglected and mistreated then I care to. The only reason I take them is because I feel so bad for them.

You have to also take into account genetics etc. She and I bought sibling fish from a breeder, she stuck hers in a (2 of them) in a 10 gallon with a crappy filter. I stuck mine in a 40 gallon with a filter that turned over 400 gallons per hour. Her's have grown to the point where they cannot turn around in the tank, mine have grown so much they are now in a 150 gallon tank and in the upwards of 8 inches. I have several fish that are over 10 inches long, to the point where the 150 gallon will be too small for them. I have a 600 gallon in the works that they will soon call home come the summer.

In small tanks goldfish have to contend with poor water quality, ammonia/nitrate spikes. Which leads to ammonia burn, parasites, bacterial infections, gill damage and usually split torn or missing fins.

If you go to a pet store and look at the teeny tiny oranda's with large eyes and fully grown wens they are all stunted. I could go on and on about how goldfish. I don't mean to sound nasty but goldfish are often so mistreated that it frustrates me.

Not feeding a fish because you can't give it the proper conditions is wrong imo. If someone said the same thing about a dog people would be going nuts the humane society would be called and the dog would be taken away.

The best thing to do if you find you have a pet, any pet that you cannot care for is to give it to a petstore or someone who can care for it and give it a good home.


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## Tabatha (Dec 29, 2007)

A 400 gallon tank!? Photos woman, I want photos!


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## Brian (Mar 14, 2006)

No, she says her filter turns over 400 gallons an hour and she is preparing a 600gallon tank in the summer


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## Tabatha (Dec 29, 2007)

Even better, I want to see this tank!!!

*Katalyst:* Where are you going to put it? Are you building it yourself or is someone making it for you? Details!


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## Katalyst (Jul 29, 2007)

Tabatha said:


> Even better, I want to see this tank!!!
> 
> *Katalyst:* Where are you going to put it? Are you building it yourself or is someone making it for you? Details!


Right now its just a 584 gallon plywood monster. Ciddian has seen it. I origionally planned to line it with pond liner but instead I'm going to paint/seal it with pond armour. Its in my basement, it was supposed to be 2 seperate 300 gallon tanks and then I went to visit my parents in NY. When I came back it has morphed into tank zilla....We're still tinkering with it, I'd like him to cut it down and elongate it so I won't need hip waders to get in and clean the thing lol.

On the filtration front, Because goldies are so messy its reccomended that they have 10 times the filtration of the tank, meaning a 40 gallon tank would require a filter that runs 400 gallons per hour.

I'm sorry if I sound like the goldfish nazi. But well if the shoe fits, buy it!


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

Katalyst said:


> I'm sorry if I sound like the goldfish nazi.


Not at all! I, as I said, don't have much experience with goldfish, so it is nice to hear a bit about them from someone who knows a bit more.


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