# 10, 15, 20 G to start?



## woodenshoes (May 10, 2010)

Hello all,

Looking to start a tank as a project with my young daughter.

We've settled on freshwater, and likely not heated. But whats a good size tank to start with? 10, 15 or even 20 g? Little dazzled with all the options.  

Would like to stock it with something interesting, maybe a schooling fish and something on the bottom. Suggestions?

Would shrimp be a viable option?

Also, plants; are plastic plants a good idea?

Will be looking to the membership here for some suggestions! meantime, reading up on some the wonderful information here.


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## WiyRay (Jan 11, 2009)

Hello, 

First of all, welcome! You'll find endless amounts of info here. 
2nd, as many have said before, we're all enablers here. So I hope you have good self control. We don't. 

Anyways, those tank sizes that you've listed. Are those the only ones you can currently carry? Or have you not discovered larger sizes yet? 
Usual answer, get the largest one you can. It gives you more room for error.

A heater and a good filter should be your primary concern if you haven't already started.

There are all sorts of schooling fish out there. If you don't have any experience with them start off with some hardy and cheap to see where you stand.

Shrimps and live plants pretty much go hand in hand. If you decide to go this route, cherry shrimps and low light plants such as java moss, crypts, java ferns, etc is the way to go. 

BTW, don't get big fish if you go shrimps. You'll know why.


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

woodenshoes said:


> Hello all,
> 
> Looking to start a tank as a project with my young daughter.
> 
> We've settled on freshwater, and likely not heated. But whats a good size tank to start with? 10, 15 or even 20 g? Little dazzled with all the options.


The larger the tank, the easier it will be to keep healthy and the more options you will have for stocking. I think a 20g tank is a perfect sized first tank.



woodenshoes said:


> Would like to stock it with something interesting, maybe a schooling fish and something on the bottom. Suggestions?


Lots of options...but, with an unheated tank you need to take into account what temperature the water will be at. Is it somewhere that it will have a constant temperature? If we sit around 19 degrees celcius, you have lots of options, from white cloud minnows, many types of barbs, certain pleco's and many more. I'm sure some others can chime in with some more specific examples. I've kept platies and swordtails in unheated tanks too, with no problems.



woodenshoes said:


> Would shrimp be a viable option?


Of course. Most shrimp will be perfectly fine in an unheated tank. Just keep in mind that the fish you get should be compatible or you might just be adding a live snack for the fish.



woodenshoes said:


> Also, plants; are plastic plants a good idea?


Plastic plants are plastic plants...Kind of boring if you ask me! I'd suggest you try some low-light REAL plants like anubias for hygrophila, but it is up to you. You will have to provide some degree of lighting for them if you want them to thrive, whereas plastic plants don't really care how much light they get  Real plants also help to keep your water parameters stable and your fish healthy.

25% water change once a week, good filtration and you are off to the races!

Hope this helps some.


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## WiyRay (Jan 11, 2009)

hehe, beat you by a few seconds Chris  
Agree with what you said too.


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## trailblazer295 (Mar 7, 2010)

Agree about the 20g more choices on fish, more room for error, decor.


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

WiyRay said:


> hehe, beat you by a few seconds Chris
> Agree with what you said too.


I'll forgive you....this time!


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## woodenshoes (May 10, 2010)

Thanks everyone! Some great ideas.

I think we're looking at a 20G with live plants to start. 

Can someone enlighten me as to how long it would take to properly settle a new tank with some plants before being able to stock it?

Also, what to look for in buying a tank? Does price equal quality? what is a good place to look for a starter kit? Eyeing Big Al's tent sale for the weekend....


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

If you plant it heavily, you can stock it right away. Heavily means at least 3/4 of the substrate is planted.

If you want to start off on the right track, head down to Menagerie and talk to one of the guys there. They can set you up with everything you need, and won't lead you astray. You might pay a bit more, but what is twenty bucks when you get all that free advice and no headaches.

You can also choose out what sort of fish you want there, and then ask them to recommend a setup based on keeping those types of fish.

Good luck,

Chris


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## ShrimpieLove (Apr 26, 2010)

Make sure to ask or research "cycling" and new tank syndrome too... My first tank wasnt the greatest success since i didnt know enough about that.... After learning more about it all, My new tank now is much better and I use Stability as well as some already cycled media that one of the forum members was nice enough to give me. That has made all the difference in my tank cycling properly and safely . Most good fish stores like Menagerie will help you, and test your tank water for you too so you can see how far along you are in the cycling process. 
Plants like Anubias are really easy to grow, i dont have co2 in my tank and my anubias grows really well  
a heater is a good idea and u can get them for really cheap just to keep your temperature constant for your plants/fish. Shrimp are really fun too!


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## Windowlicka (Mar 5, 2008)

I learned early in this hobby that you're not keeping fish, you're keeping water. If your water parameters are stable, and in line with the conditions that your preferred residents require, then Mother Nature will (for the most part) do her bit to make sure that your inhabitants remain well and healthy (assuming of course that you carefully research your fish' compatibility & select healthy livestock).

With that in mind, a larger body of water will (as others mention) allow a greater margin for error than a smaller one. The larger you can go, then the more stable things will be, and the more you and your daughter will be able to appreciate your investment of time/effort/money.

Also (and again, to reiterate what others have said) be sure to pay very close and careful attention to filtering & the cycling process any new tank _MUST_ and _WILL_ go through as the beneficial bacteria develop - the natural breakdown and removal of decaying 'gunk' (and their subsequent chemical by-products) is critical to the overall health of the system. Regardless of what the box in the store says on the side, it really isn't possible to _over_-filter an aquarium, but it is certainly possible to _under_-filter. Long and short? More filtering is gooderer(!) (in 99 out of every 100 instances)

In addition to stability, the larger the tank, then the wider your choice of potential live-stock. there aren't many schooling fish that you can place in a standard 10G tank - certainly not that you can add in the kind of qty that will allow you to view their natural schooling habits.

Look at the footprint of the tank too - 20G tanks are available in a couple of dimensions - again, depending on the needs of your intended livestock:

24" long x 12.5" wide x 17" tall (20G "Standard")
30" long x 12.5" wide x 13" tall (20G "Long")

Deeper tanks permit defined areas for fish that occupy particular areas of the water column: bottom-, mid- and upper-level.

Longer tanks tend to allow more length-wise swimming space, and for any more 'territorial' occupants to define their own space with less chance of overlapping onto their competitor's space.

Personally, I really like the longer footprint for the kind of fish *I* keep in that size tank (territorial african 'shell-dwelling' cichlids) - I filter this with a HOB filter ("Hang on Back") and also a Rena XP1 external canister filter.

The downside to this hobby? Whatever size tank you decide to buy will very quickly no longer be "big enough" - prepare for the obligatory (and imminent!  ) upgrade. And don't be shy - there are plenty of people here that are more than ready, willing, and able to help you spend your hard-earned funds on that next project! 

You're off to a great start by asking questions - there is a direct correlation in this hobby between research, planning & preparation and long-term health, success and enjoyment - for you, your daughter, and your fish.


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## AquaNekoMobile (Feb 26, 2010)

woodenshoes said:


> Thanks everyone! Some great ideas.
> 
> I think we're looking at a 20G with live plants to start.
> 
> ...


IIRC BA North York has 20gal long (30" wide vs 24" wide standard size) for $1/gal but that is a tank only.

I've owned White Cloud Minnows before. Very hardy and forgiving fish. They have a wiiiide temp range ~3C (no solid freeze over) - ~27C. They seem to inhabit the top and mid area of the tank for me. Remember it is ~8lb per gallon of water only so make sure you put that tank on something solid or can handle the weight. When you factor in gravel with water it is ~10lb/gal.


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## fatkinglet (May 8, 2010)

Question about getting water test in Menagerie, do I just fill the tank water into a bottle and bring along? And they will do it for free even I am not a customer?!


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## BettaBeats (Jan 14, 2010)

Essentially, buy the tank, the filter, the gravel, the driftwood/rocks, and the light.
Rinse the gravel REALLY well. I would suggest an ecocomplete or a flourite gravel so you won't really have to add nutrients down the road.

Set up the tank on a level surface that can support ~200lbs. 
Layer in the gravel to about 2" or more, as planting will be much easier the deeper the gravel is. Put a plate in the bottom of the tank and pour in your water. The plate will disperse the water and not disperse your gravel.

Attach the filter and plug it in. 

If you want a fishless cycle then keep it running for 2 weeks. Or you can add in some fish food and plants to start a bioload. The plants will also suck up the nitrites, ammonia, and nitrates and speed up the cycle. I use fishfood instead of fish for my bioload. it breaks down into ammonia that the filter will use to break down into nitrites and then nitrates (aka the nitrogen cycle)

you can have a tank cycled in 2-4 weeks, depending. I gradually add in plants and once you start adding plants you need to get your light on 8-12 hours a day to have photosynthesis.

then after about 2 weeks get your water tested. I don't think there is much sense in bringing your water to Menagerie every time you want it tested, so just buy a test kit. 

when you have 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, and 0-~5 nitrates you can start adding in fish. Never buy too many at the start, you will overpower the filter and an ammonia and nitrite spike can happen and your fish will likely die. 

You want to gradually increase the bioload - aka the fish so the filter has time to build up the good bacteria that will break down all the bad stuff.

20 gal is a good place to start. 20 gal long would be even better for a planted tank as you would ahve your lights closer the the plants, lots of room to 'scape and lots of length to keep your fish happy.

and best of all, Enjoy the learning process! Lots to read online, Google is your friend, and there are MANY people on here with good opinions (even if you have to put up with some cranky ones from time-to-time)


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