# No electricity for 5 Hours



## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

My tank survived this 21 century crappy Hydro service  Why in the modern world these clowns driving around with flashlights and looking were cable was broken. This is a joke.

I had AP power supply, but this piece was just enough to run 1 power head for a hour. I almost wanted to rung to canadian tire to get eliminator, but likely my neighbor had one.

With this one I was able to run 4 Power heads and Big fan to cool the tank for 5 hours. (spent ~ $5 for the gas)

MotoMaster Eliminator 300W Inverter
http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/brow...Master+Eliminator+300W+Inverter.jsp?locale=en

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## talon (May 7, 2009)

I did power outage 10 hours before, luckily I've ready 2 DC power air pump and battery backup for MP40W all the time. You should get some portable air pumps (fishing purpose) for power outage in the future. Oxygen is more important than flow to fish and coral. Move a coral to the sump in the basement if temperature is too high.


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## msobon (Dec 7, 2011)

Go with a portable gas generator, you never know when you might need it and it's a very cheap insurance policy if you look at it in the long run.


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

msobon said:


> Go with a portable gas generator, you never know when you might need it and it's a very cheap insurance policy if you look at it in the long run.


It does not make sense to buy generator just for the tank. If you buy already it should be capable to run furnace

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## msobon (Dec 7, 2011)

Indeed!! I've gotten a 2400w honda for $400 off kajiji, was still in the original box never used.

I'm currently trying to find if I can get my hands on one of the Generac Propane/Natural gas with auto transfer switch. That way I will never have to worry about a power outage even when I'm not home.


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

you were lucky. I checked Honda prices yesterday and WOW

http://powerequipment.honda.ca/generators/inverter-series/eu3000ic

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## altcharacter (Jan 10, 2011)

My car came equipped with a 300w converter so i'm good! 

Everything survive Greg?


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

altcharacter said:


> My car came equipped with a 300w converter so i'm good!
> 
> Everything survive Greg?


Everything. I was reading today about all these convertors and it is tricky issue.
As they say, you can attach even 1000W convertor to the lighter plug, but you can not run more than 300W equipment on the lighter. I will blow up (probably BS, since the lighter has a fuse)
I think it is safer to attach convertor to the battery directly. I ordered 800W today from amazon in case for the winter, because I will not be able to run heater with 300W
these are on sale now and have good reviews
http://www.amazon.ca/Cobra-CPI-880-Inverter-output/dp/B001TE0IMG/ref=cm_cr_pr_sims_t

It also better to have True Sine Wave convertor for the powerheads

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## altcharacter (Jan 10, 2011)

my car came equipped with the converter mounted into the dash so i assume it will work perfectly fine. Also for heat you would just need to maintain warmth...not an exact temp. Corals can take a cold swing but they can't take a hot swing so you could use a 100w to keep the water fairly warm


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## CanadaPleco (Sep 7, 2009)

I very regularly have power outages of 6-12+ hours. I have NEVER lost a single fish from any of these. The most recent one was on Thursday, it was out for 7 hrs. I don't even worry about it anymore unless its out for a full day. Then a simple water change when it comes back on it all that is needed... *Everyone freaks out WAY too much over a simple outage.*

How long do you think fish can live in a fish bag? Several days quite easily if packed right. A tank sure beats a fish bag.


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

CanadaPleco said:


> I very regularly have power outages of 6-12+ hours. I have NEVER lost a single fish from any of these. The most recent one was on Thursday, it was out for 7 hrs. I don't even worry about it anymore unless its out for a full day. Then a simple water change when it comes back on it all that is needed... *Everyone freaks out WAY too much over a simple outage.*
> 
> How long do you think fish can live in a fish bag? Several days quite easily if packed right. A tank sure beats a fish bag.


what about corals, anemones?

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## altcharacter (Jan 10, 2011)

Some people don't understand how harsh a reef tank can be until they own one and the power goes out. 

I had some goldfish in a 6 gallon tank in my basement with no water movement, heater, or filter and they did fine.

The power goes out on my reef tank for more than 10 minutes and I start to freak out!!


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## J_T (Mar 25, 2011)

CanadaPleco said:


> I very regularly have power outages of 6-12+ hours. I have NEVER lost a single fish from any of these. The most recent one was on Thursday, it was out for 7 hrs. I don't even worry about it anymore unless its out for a full day. Then a simple water change when it comes back on it all that is needed... *Everyone freaks out WAY too much over a simple outage.*
> 
> How long do you think fish can live in a fish bag? Several days quite easily if packed right. A tank sure beats a fish bag.


Way different requirements!

Our reefs are maintained at 78-82*F That power goes out, and the temp drops, lots of things start happening. Mainly die off at the micro organism level, which has an impact on the macro organism level. Which by now is polluting the tank, which is bugging the fish/corals........ and on and on.

The tanks you have are fairly inactive fish (to the best of my knowledge regarding pleco's) So, their O2 demands would be lower than that of my trigger. Or someone elses tangs.

However, that said. Normally a blanket wrapped around the tank will maintain temp. Some 02 from an air stone will keep the gas exchange at the surface happening. And all will be good!

If I had a house, I would get the natural gas back up that HD sells (or similar) No mater what, the house would have power!


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

J_T said:


> Way different requirements!
> 
> If I had a house, I would get the natural gas back up that HD sells (or similar) No mater what, the house would have power!


are you talking about this one  16K
http://www.homedepot.ca/product/generac-60-kw-natural-gas-liquid-cooled-standby-generator/921052

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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

J_T said:


> Way different requirements!
> 
> Our reefs are maintained at 78-82*F That power goes out, and the temp drops, lots of things start happening. Mainly die off at the micro organism level, which has an impact on the macro organism level. Which by now is polluting the tank, which is bugging the fish/corals........ and on and on.
> 
> ...


I don't keep corals, and I haven't had any long power outages, so I'm not speaking from experience. Just some thoughts.

Seas get storms as well as periods of calm. In a storm, temperature drops rapidly. In calm periods, the sea could be standing still. Those are all natural events that are similar to a power outage.

I agree that the die off would start at the micro-organism level, but remember that corals are micro-organisms too. I've bought live rocks fresh out of someone's tank, put it in a bucket with tank water, and drove it home. The drive was about 40 min in summer. There definitely were some die offs, as I registered nitrates after putting in the rocks, but nothing dramatic (something like 5ppm from 0ppm).

I think one reason reef keepers freak out at power outages is because their tank tends to be over-populated. It seems that they tend to forget that corals are animals, not plants. I think the less bioload a tank has, the more resilient it will be to any mishaps.


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## altcharacter (Jan 10, 2011)

As I had said before, coral can take low temperatures but they can't take high temps. This is one of the reasons we see alot of corals dead at the bottom of the ocean now due to warming temps

As for low oxygen, off the coast of oregon there is the worlds largest "dead zone" where not much oxygen exists in the water and therefore there isn't much alive there.


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## J_T (Mar 25, 2011)

sig said:


> are you talking about this one  16K
> http://www.homedepot.ca/product/generac-60-kw-natural-gas-liquid-cooled-standby-generator/921052


The smaller one, but yes, that brand. Ties into the natural gas line, and done!

But for now, I have no worries about coming up with the $$ as I live in an apartment... But if I had a house... Which comes first? 16K for a back up? Or 16K in tanks.........

I bet on the tanks, and a few $$ spent on battery powered air pumps


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## cablemike (Jan 7, 2009)

On my 90 I had a computer ups connected to two power heads and when the power went out for 8 hours everything survived. The ups lasted the whole time. It was 80.00 at staples. I'm gonna have to get another for my new tank. With all these heat waves its just a matter of time before we have a blackout.


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## CrankbaitJon (Mar 26, 2012)

solarz said:


> I don't keep corals, and I haven't had any long power outages, so I'm not speaking from experience. Just some thoughts.
> 
> Seas get storms as well as periods of calm. In a storm, temperature drops rapidly. In calm periods, the sea could be standing still. Those are all natural events that are similar to a power outage.
> 
> ...


The ocean temperature doesn't drop rapidly in a storm, not on the reefs anyways. If that happens the corals will bleach. Can't really compare the ocean to a tank nor live rock with corals. People with SPS will freak quicker than people with none such as myself lol. With the mistakes I made I'm pretty sure I would have a dozen dead SPS by now if I had SPS.


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## BIGSHOW (Sep 10, 2011)

This is a good discussion. I have been thinking about this issue myself.

For me, my biggest problem(s) would be the heat in the summer or the cold in the winter time. (since I am old school and run oil for heat, the summer is probably more of a concern)

If my AC wasn't working I think all my tanks would overheat in less then a day. I do have some fans, but I don't think they would be able to keep up.

It would be nice to hear what others do in case of a sustained power outage in the dead of summer (preferably from people that have large reef systems +200g).


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

Hydrologist said:


> This is a good discussion. I have been thinking about this issue myself.
> 
> For me, my biggest problem(s) would be the heat in the summer or the cold in the winter time. (since I am old school and run oil for heat, the summer is probably more of a concern)
> 
> ...


during 5 hours power outage one went from CT and 3 power heads running were able to keep temperature in place. I got increase just 1 degree
I have 150G 72x27x19

http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/brow...9P/Likewise+Pedestal+Fan,+16-in.jsp?locale=en

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## BIGSHOW (Sep 10, 2011)

Any idea on what the ambient temperature was in the room with your tank? 

Also, how much did the temperature rise in your house during the 5 hours outage?

I'm just curious, because my house gets the sun all day and I know it would be well over 90 degrees in my house without my AC running.


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

Hydrologist said:


> Any idea on what the ambient temperature was in the room with your tank?
> 
> Also, how much did the temperature rise in your house during the 5 hours outage?
> 
> I'm just curious, because my house gets the sun all day and I know it would be well over 90 degrees in my house without my AC running.


It was around 85-90 with all doors and windows open. I was lucky it was inning- night.
The temperature in the tank grow from 78.5 to 79.7.
I know it exactly because I attached Aquatic temperature control to the power source.

Considering the fan consumes just 60W + 3 power heads ~ 30w all 3, I could attach 3 more fans and do not go over 300W. That is the maximum which you can use one the lighter plug (found on the web)

Currently, the temp in the house is 80, since air conditioner can not cool my old crappy house, but my sump in the basement and there is much cooler, the tank temp is 78.9 and I turned went on now (T5 lights are running in full)

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## BIGSHOW (Sep 10, 2011)

Excellent information. Thank you.

I think I may run a mock scenario and see what happens.

When I do I will let you all know.


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## Flexin5 (Nov 12, 2011)

Fuck me the power just went out in my building at young and finch and im stuck downstairs


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## msobon (Dec 7, 2011)

Flexin5 said:


> Fuck me the power just went out in my building at young and finch and im stuck downstairs


Well it just came back up do you should be fine !


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## Flexin5 (Nov 12, 2011)

lol well..it was out for about 1-1.5ish hrs. had to hike it up 26 floors because i was worried about the tank..lol

i have to admit, man was i unprepared for this. i always thought that my building had a back-up generator but it only runs safety lights for things like the parking garage. keeping a close eye on the temp, the plan was that if it got too hot i was going to float a bag of ice in the water. too cold and i was going to heat up a spoon on the candle and stick it in the HOB filter.

for water movement, i took a big spoon and kinda stirred the tank, judged it by the lps movement. then the power came back on thankfully.

so i thought that i'd take this chance to re-mount a sps frag (one of my favourites) now that the power was on. mix the putty, glue it onto the frag, put some glue on the other side and was just about to put it in the tank when the power went out again. holding a frag with superglue in total darkness! lol! lucky for me it only lasted about 2 mins.

i'm going to go buy some kind of power back up to atleast run a power head during another outage, i'm also going to mix up like 4ltrs of salt water and keep them in jugs so i can do a waterchange as soon as the power comes back on. i also noticed this thing that made me jump 10ft because i've never seen it before...bristle worm? (not actual pic)










looked just like that, a bit more on the hairy side rather than spiney. gross looking thing.


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## altcharacter (Jan 10, 2011)

Jay just get yourself a computer backup like a UPS....they're fairly cheap off CL or Kijiji
Like this one, although you could fine one smaller and cheaper
http://toronto.en.craigslist.ca/tor/sys/3104142091.html

90 minutes of runtime @ 200 watts.
You could run your lights @ 30% (22.5w)
and 2 Koralia 425gph powerheads (3.5w each 7w total)
and your AC110 (14w)

Which means your total usage would be 45 watts (roughly) would give you the maximum run time of approximately 270 minutes or roughly 4.5 hours and you wouldn't have to worry about power consumption unless you needed it to run longer...although I don't know if it would (website says max is 4.5 hours but they could be lying)


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

altcharacter said:


> Jay just get yourself a computer backup like a UPS....they're fairly cheap off CL or Kijiji
> Like this one, although you could fine one smaller and cheaper
> http://toronto.en.craigslist.ca/tor/sys/3104142091.html
> 
> ...


All data advertized by manufacturer is BS. 
I have brand new 200W
http://www.staples.ca/ENG/Catalog/cat_sku.asp?CatIds=&webid=759747&affixedcode=WW.

It was enough to run 1 powerhead Koralia just for 1.5 hour wich is let's say ~10W

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## altcharacter (Jan 10, 2011)

Greg, the one you linked says on their website that full load is 12-24 minutes so if you got 1.5 hours out of it for one powerhead I would say you got a good deal!

The UPS I linked is more of a commercial backup


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

altcharacter said:


> Greg, the one you linked says on their website that full load is 12-24 minutes so if you got 1.5 hours out of it for one powerhead I would say you got a good deal!
> 
> The UPS I linked is more of a commercial backup


it is not correct

estimated backup runtime: 2-24 minutes (*actual time depends on power draw of connected items) 
*

this is 200W device and considering 10W load from powerhead, it should be able to run powerhead for 20 hours

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## fury165 (Aug 21, 2010)

Don't know if you guys saw this and yes it is expensive - but i can see practical applications to having a solar powered generator like this. Yeti solar powered generator kit http://www.goalzero.com/large-extreme.html


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

good one, but to get it just for aquarium ? If I am going to buy one it must be able to run furnace (remember Montreal few years ago)

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## fury165 (Aug 21, 2010)

No you are right, not just for aquarium.Putting my disaster/zombie outbreak tin foil hat on, I can have a replenish able power source that is silent, can be run indoors and can br chared via solar panels or plugged in to the wall We live in a Loft so gas generators are out if the question. So far we have had a couple of 'emergency' power outages this past winter and the place was only slightly cooler... But no experience with anything longer than 8 hrs. 

But this now gives me the ability to provide lighting and keep the fridge running for a bit (or perhaps a smaller cooler). you could also charge radios, phones, laptops, batteries, etc

It is also portable enough that it can be moved around if we had to leave the city for camping or if we had to bug out. 

Looking at it that way, the price tag shock softens.. What do you think?


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## fury165 (Aug 21, 2010)

sig said:


> (remember Montreal few years ago)


I know a bunch of preparers and one thing they hate is that these gas generators are loud. Their thoughts are that as food and resources get scarcer, people are going to be attracted to the noise of the generator as the houses with them are most likely well stocked.

That is exactly what happened to a vendor's mother in the quebec ice storm when some of the local thugs broke in and helped themselves WITH HIS MOTHER AT HOME!


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

I agree what you say, but I am looking on it from the other side after my experience 
Two years ago (I was lucky and I did not have a SW tank) we have almost 15 hours outage in the winter (hydro should replace generator). All fresh water fishes gone and temperature at home was close to 50F.
The fridge and TV was not important and since hydro could not say when the will restore power, I already drained water from whole house.
With 800W convertor from the car, I can run TV. tank heater and power heads, charge batteries - cost $100
By having barbeque outside I can have hot food.
The biggest problem to keep house warm and for this you must have something powerful.
I think if I am going to spend 2K for the solar it is better to add gas or natural gas generators for another 1K

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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

fury165 said:


> I know a bunch of preparers and one thing they hate is that these gas generators are loud. Their thoughts are that as food and resources get scarcer, people are going to be attracted to the noise of the generator as the houses with them are most likely well stocked.
> 
> That is exactly what happened to a vendor's mother in the quebec ice storm when some of the local thugs broke in and helped themselves WITH HIS MOTHER AT HOME!


I do not worry about it. I have Wasp spray at home  and I was born in Russia. It means I was not brainwashed by liberal hug a criminal policy

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## fury165 (Aug 21, 2010)

sig said:


> I do not worry about it. I have Wasp spray at home  and I was born in Russia. It means I was not brainwashed by liberal hug a criminal policy


 lol seems you've got it covered!


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## AquaNekoMobile (Feb 26, 2010)

fury165 said:


> No you are right, not just for aquarium.Putting my disaster/zombie outbreak tin foil hat on, I can have a replenish able power source that is silent, can be run indoors and can br chared via solar panels or plugged in to the wall We live in a Loft so gas generators are out if the question. So far we have had a couple of 'emergency' power outages this past winter and the place was only slightly cooler... But no experience with anything longer than 8 hrs.
> 
> But this now gives me the ability to provide lighting and keep the fridge running for a bit (or perhaps a smaller cooler). you could also charge radios, phones, laptops, batteries, etc
> 
> ...


Why not stock up wood and go with a TEG setup? While this is a small setup for campers one can get a larger unit. A little smoke in the beginning but it will be smokeless in minutes once the gasification is kicked in.

http://biolitestove.com/

Lots of reviews showing up on Youtube right now.

http://smf.rantradio.com/index.php?topic=3905.0

You might also want to look into folding solar panels for better portability/weight then the large panels there. I've heard of that company and seen some stuff online about them. The Goal Zero USB 4xAA battery charger is a nice battery pack however reading more into it IIRC I read something on Amazon that, that AA power pack/charger has no regulation killing a Kindle and I think Ipad while charging it.


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## AquaNekoMobile (Feb 26, 2010)

sig said:


> I agree what you say, but I am looking on it from the other side after my experience
> Two years ago (I was lucky and I did not have a SW tank) we have almost 15 hours outage in the winter (hydro should replace generator). All fresh water fishes gone and temperature at home was close to 50F.
> The fridge and TV was not important and since hydro could not say when the will restore power, I already drained water from whole house.
> With 800W convertor from the car, I can run TV. tank heater and power heads, charge batteries - cost $100
> ...


You might want to look into Mass Rocket Stove heaters. Google and Youtube will have a lot you can see on that. Basically you're building a heatsink and a small enclosed fire will heat the 'mass' up and because everything is so well insulated you don't end up with the problems like typical household fireplaces that get cerosote build up as the fires are IDK something like ~500-600C there without a complete burn. With a mass rocket stove one can reach temps nearing 1000C for night clean burns with pretty much steam (not smoke) coming out the vent pipe to the outside of the house. I've heard of people taking that steam and piping it into a greenhouse to heat it and supply it with co2.

Also saves something around 1/3 of a cord of wood from what I've been reading around the web from traditional fireplaces. One burn in a well insulated house could keep the house warm for ~1-3days before you need to do another burn or you could slowly feed the fire a few times a day.

Combining that with a TEG for generating power and running some pipes you could keep the water hot and not waste and of the heat. People have turned thier mass rocket stoves into benches, a large couch, or I've read before someone made a wall out of one before. From all I've read if you insulate it well you could sit on top of the couch without coushins and it won't even be hot but just warm to the touch.


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## fury165 (Aug 21, 2010)

AquaNekoMobile said:


> Why not stock up wood and go with a TEG setup? While this is a small setup for campers one can get a larger unit. A little smoke in the beginning but it will be smokeless in minutes once the gasification is kicked in.
> 
> http://biolitestove.com/
> 
> ...


That is cool! Really handy for a BOB..


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## AquaNekoMobile (Feb 26, 2010)

fury165 said:


> That is cool! Really handy for a BOB..


Something came to mind. If you can find those cheap slot car kits they sell at the dollar store that take IIRC AA x 2 you could take the motor out and look around for some small lightweight gears and take a piece of heavy duty aluminum foil (like an oven liner or BBQ trays) and shape a long chute out of it leading to the burn chamber of that Biolite mini stove (or larger).

Probably gear it so it turns really slowly and stock up small pieces of wood so as the gears turn it'll drop a small piece of wood in without you having to be around it. For extra security you could put some aluminum sheeting around it as a fire stop or use bricks around it (think like this but the stove inside 



)

Think of the design as an auto feeder. You could also as an idea use a 555 timer and set it say IDK every 5-10mins to drop a small amount of wood in. We live in Canada. Wood is almost anywhere however trees grow slowly so an efficient stove/heater (like the mass rocket stove) helps save fuel.


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## msobon (Dec 7, 2011)

The stove looks like a cool gimmick, yes it works but if we're trying to talk having our aquariums powered during a power outage your bio stove will be useless. The tech specs show only a 2W output, that doesnt give much considering the energy being inputed. 

Your average tank to operate will need atleast on average 150w to operate the pumps that doesn't include lighting and heating which most probably will be more than double of the 150w figure and this is on a relatively small tank unless you have a true nano.


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