# DIY CO2 - Russian Roulette?



## ka NUK (Dec 19, 2008)

Came to work this morning and noticed all my Odessa Barbs and Black Neons were hanging out at the surface  Even the Otos were darting to the surface once in a while.

Strangely the Ph was not as low as I'd expect from that display by the fish. (only 6.8). Definitely time to get a drop checker...

Lights are on from 9:00 to 7:00 and I have two bottles of grape-jelly / wine yeast going at the moment. I get about 4 weeks out of a bottle (or more) if I occasionally top up with a bit of sugar. Bubble rate is about 10 bpm.

If I remember, and last night I didn't, I will agitate the surface more before I leave the office. I just point the outlet from the Rena a bit higher. Diffusion happens via the outlet venturi that comes with the Rena filter.

I'm trying hard to not spend the bucks on a pressurized system, even though this is obviously the answer.

Anyone have any good ideas about how to prevent fish suffocation with DIY CO2?

Cheers
ka NUK


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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

What is the size of your tank? And how much plants do you have in the tank.
At 10 bpm is that 10 bubbles per miniutes? That's like nothing. Do you mean 10 bubbles per second? (which doesn't make all that much sense either as DIY can't reach that kind of pressure unless you have 4 or 5 bottles running.)
You might want to check to see if some of the surgar water got sucked into the tank. If that's the case, you might want to do some major water change.
To control the release of the CO2, you can get control valve and adjust the rate of bubbles going into your tank. The draw back is that you to check every now and them to make sure the back pressure didn't blow the air line from it's attachement.
See:
http://www.petsandponds.com/en/aquarium-supplies/c5943/c6759/p16758721.html

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## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

Shameless plug, but you can easily make your own DIY drop checker (I've made a few for users on these forums too!) from a few materials you might have lying around the house. I did a write up a while back (maybe sometime last year), so you might want to dig through the forums 

I agree with Zebrapl3co; if there is a chance some of the DIY mix got sucked into the tank water, it would definitely cause problems as you have described.


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## pat3612 (Jan 29, 2008)

Darkblade48 said:


> Shameless plug, but you can easily make your own DIY drop checker (I've made a few for users on these forums too!) from a few materials you might have lying around the house. I did a write up a while back (maybe sometime last year), so you might want to dig through the forums
> 
> I agree with Zebrapl3co; if there is a chance some of the DIY mix got sucked into the tank water, it would definitely cause problems as you have described.


Maybe Ciddian can move that thread into the DIY section.


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## ka NUK (Dec 19, 2008)

Yes, I saw those DIY drop checkers (and a few others on the web).

The tank is 20 gal with a pretty good plant load: A val "forest", two large amazons, some micro sword (with bba), moss, and cabomba which is being eaten by the barbs faster than it can grow. I also have some water hyacinth from my pond overwintering in there.

Presently I have 2 4L bottles running at about one bubble every 5 seconds. The bubbles measure at least 6 mm in diameter. The diffusion method doesn't waste much CO2. I can hear the gas churning around in the venturi, and it comes out as an almost invisible mist. After changing out a bottle (I wait for a day after starting new mixture) the bubble count goes up to a bubble very second or two.

Putting a shut-off valve on my large bottles of mixture scares me. Asking for a big explosion / mess IMO.

And no, the yeast mixture didn't end up in the tank. I use a good sized separator bottle to prevent this from happening. In any case, the water in the tank is crystal clear.

Also dosing Flourish regularly, with 50% weekly changes. May try Excel to get rid of bba ...as long as my vals won't melt from it?

Cheers
ka NUK

Here is a shot of the tank about two months ago. Plants have filled in a LOT since then. Time for another picture I think.


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## ka NUK (Dec 19, 2008)

Well, the Amazons are definitely bigger. The micro sword got trimmed to get rid of some bba (didn't work). The cobomba is (mostly) removed as the barbs shredded it and made a mess of the tank.










ka NUK


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## dekstr (Oct 23, 2007)

The easiest way to prevent co2 suffocation is to increase water surface movement. It keeps the co2 levels from building up.

You do sacrifice some co2 in the water but it's worth the advantages of better air-water exchange and prevention of suffocating your fish.

You can set an airstone to turn on a little bit the when lights turn off (thus plants are not utilizing co2). Similar to how blowing bubbles throw a straw into a carbonated drink will 'fizz' out the bubbles. This basically agitates the water surface.

Go pressurized! You won't regret it.


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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

Wow, that is one nice background.
Going back on topic. I can't seem to see why there would be a CO2 problem. Even at 1 bubble second, for a 20G it's still good.
I would've point a finger at the vals, as they do reverse absorb alot of O2 at night. But those few strands won't do much. It's when there is a forest of them and I do mean a forest as in the back and side is all covered with val, then you have an issues.
The next thing I would suspect is the water quality. As amonia and nitrite poisoning would cause the fish to try to breath air. That's because their gills got fried. But if your tank is going through a cycle, you would expect to see cloudy water not crystal clear water. So ... I would test the water just to make sure it's not the water.
Your DIY system seems fine. You even have a separator bottle set up, I rarely see people do this. So you would know if any of the sugar water got into the tank as there will be liquid in the separator bottle.
So I am stump too, and that means you have to look back at everything you did in the past 10 days.
Did you measure the temp? Espcially at night. Does your tank heater work?
Did you have a cover over the top of the tank. Maybe you should leave a 1 or 2 inch crack to let some new air in during the night.
Was this on the sixth day of your weekly water change? It may be fert overdosing.
Also, even some scented air freshener can be an issue. Things like a new paint job on the walls will be a problem too.
Hope these things helps.

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## ka NUK (Dec 19, 2008)

Thanks for your detailed input!



Zebrapl3co said:


> Wow, that is one nice background.


Thanks! 



Zebrapl3co said:


> I would've point a finger at the vals, as they do reverse absorb alot of O2 at night. But those few strands won't do much. It's when there is a forest of them and I do mean a forest as in the back and side is all covered with val, then you have an issues.


There were about twice as many vals in the tank. I have just thinned them out dramatically ...so that may have contributed.



Zebrapl3co said:


> The next thing I would suspect is the water quality.


A solid "negative" on that one, lol. The tank has been running for most of a year and has no ammonia or nitrites present. Nitrates are low (2.0 ppm or less). I test weekly even without any visible issues.

About your other points: I don't have a cover on the tank, and this occurred just after a water change. One thing that may have contributed is chemical contamination from the custodians closet/sink. I don't have another option for getting my water ...and unfortunately the room is used to store cleaning chemicals as well. I'm sure the sink is not not "chemical free" either. I try my best to rinse everything well before I start and use plenty of Prime.

I did start using charcoal in my canister filter again to alleviate any contamination issues.

At the moment fish are happy and plants are pearling. Life is good 

ka NUK


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