# Question about Blue-green Algae and musings



## Sunstar (Jul 29, 2008)

I've been reading up on it all night, I have several ideas of what is causing it. It's strictly associated with my sand and I took a tube from an old gravel vac to suck it up. I can replace the sand as well as poke around wiht it, aim the water current from the powerhead down. So it blows over it. 

Here is my Question though, and i am unable to find the answers I am looking for. 

Aside of the possibility of shrimp eating it, I would like a confirmed YAY or NAY on that. But would the addition of tannins from driftwood aid in the reduction of the BGA? As it seems Tannins have a somewhat anti-bacterial nature and that is what BGA is. 

I do intend to collect some oak leaves come this autumn to add as a "litter" I do find it attractive and only want a few bits in, not a whole lot. I realise it adjusts the PH. 

So my understandings of BGA is thus.

4 day blackout might help, but I don't think it is feaseable, not in my tank. We are not talking a major heavy outbreak YET and I am taking pains to remove it and experement with teh bits I remove to see what might help. I got all sorts of cups on my book shelf with BGA and peroxide...I need to get a better Microscope, I find this extremely facinating.....and BGA with salt... It smells like beetroots at the moment. Not fishy. WHo knows it might be algae, but it seems to fit the description of BGA.

Antibiotics are out, although I was curious about the use of Polysporin eyedrops but it appears I got rid of that after my last pink-eye outbreak....that was horrible. I digress.

they say reduce feeding for fish, but what I feed my hord is gone within 25 seconds. So I give them a couple pinches one at a time until gone. The lot I have clear it up, so extremely little gets to the ground. Then they look at me for more and I tell them, nibble at the plants. And they do a damned good job of that tooo... again, I digress.

My co2 is starting to run down again, I actually change the reactor weekly to keep a reasonably steady flow. Plant grow is inproving, although my glosso is a bit frustrated with me as I sucked up several plants while doing a small sand vac with a hose this evening. I'll replant that in the morning when I have light. 

SO will adding some tannin help kill that bacteria or will he be onnery? Will shrimps eat it. Will I go insane? Actually I am on that last note. 

I realise it is a tough nut to cure, but I am thinking I can work at this. 

It smells like beetroot not fish. 

I also learned you can use it to naturally dye silk. I might try that sometime.


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

If it is BGA, shrimp will not touch it.

Adding tannins to the water will likely have no effect either, however I have never tried this.

BGA isn't a typical bacteria really - it is a single-celled organism capable of carrying out photosynthesis right in the cytoplast of the cell (different from plants, for example, which use chloroplasts).

The problems I have encountered with BGA in the past were solved by increase the flow rate in the tank - either repositioning the output or upgrading filters.

Other reasons for it are, as you mentioned, excess organic nutrients in the water column (overfeeding, for example), but I have also been able to link its appearence to two things.

The first is dead, damaged and decaying plants which are not pruned properly will leak organic nutrients which can trigger BGA (and others, like BBA) to grow directly from your plants.

This doesn't seem to be your problem. 

The other thing I have noticed is low nitrate levels - this could be very applicable to you, since I'm not sure if you are dosing any nitrogen for your plants (while still adding co2). While your plants must rely on some form of NH3, NO2 or NO3, cyanobacteria is able to use nitrogen gas and convert it into these - from there, it can use your co2 and other nutrients, whereas the plants may not because of a lack of a nitrogen source.

Adding co2 to help your plants grow without adding the other essentials (nitrogen, potassium, phosphorus and micro nutrients) will cause countless types of algae, or in this case cyanobacteria, to form and flourish.

Hope this helps a bit.


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

As Chris said, increase flow, maybe start with some ferts.


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## Sunstar (Jul 29, 2008)

I will increase the flow. I ran out of ferts. The last one I had actually contained copper, so I may need to find an alternative source... MInd you, with that said, I was dousing with that fert while I had claude in the tank and she never had an issue.

Okay: So how does adding nutrients slow the formation of cyanobateria and other algae? Aside of the fact, which I did read, they can take arial nitrogen and earth atomsphere has something like 78% nitrogen or some percentage like that.

SO if it is BBA and the shrimp don't eat it. the shrimp, bottom feeders, eat what is triggering it. So it goes and that's what makes it appear that they do eat it. That makes sense to me. I understand that many things won't eat it because it probably tastes bad and is toxic. 

I would say that, again, in that area, aneoobic activity is highly possible. When I planted the glosso, I didn't do it very nicely. I have since learned how to do it properly. So there is a fair amount of decaying plant material under the sand. SO, I suspect locating/removing that would assist in solving the issue. 

While I do that, I continue to experement with our pile of slime. I will see how a blackout does control it, although, as I said, it's not really an option in my tank. 
I did try to increase the flow rate to that area. I am considering adding the air intake hose to the powerhead to give the tank bubbles. However this will mess up my CO2 addition. But I can pause the CO2 for a little. 

As for fertilizer. Until the fert tab explosion, and I ran out, I was using Plant Gro "Iron enriched" 0.15-0-0 fertiliser. I have been using very very tiny fragments of plant stake under my "Prize" plants. My lotus is that. Not even half a stake... hell not even quarter more like a 10th or less. So I am adding some ferts under the gravel now, after the "explosion", I got a bit scared off the root tabs. So I am using some sticks under the gravel, and small amounts or should it be in the water collumn?

So in summery: Adding some ferts, I will assume root method, adusting the flow, a good gravel vac/and or shrimp to remove decaying slag and possibly giving the sand a poke every now and again, should reduce the issue.


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## Gargoyle (Aug 21, 2008)

I've had this problem, off and on in different tanks, for years. Tannins will not help you (the Cyanobacter do fine with them). Even adjusting flow doesn't always help. I have only ever beaten it (in several different tanks) with 5 to 7 days of total darkness. I know, not an option. Here, it has been the only option that has succeeded.

I once bought gravel that looked great, but for some reason constantly blossomed even after blackouts. I removed it from one 15 gallon. The other with the same gravel flared up, and I tried adding an equal amount of well-rinsed playground sand to it, and mixing the two. That worked. However, in another tank, I had to remove the playground sand to beat it...

I've never smelled 'fishy' cyanobacter. It has its own distinct smell.

And oh yes, if you oak leaves to a cyanobacter afflicted tank, get ready for a blue-green slime show! I love dried autumn leaves in rainforest tanks, but if there's a hint of cb in the tank, I don't do it. I learned that the hard way.


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## Sunstar (Jul 29, 2008)

Thank you. 

I will continue to combat it AND save some leaves for me. I will probably freeze them until I can use them. 

The smell is like boiled beetroots. It took me a while to associate the scent as it was very familiar. But not fishy. Want fishy... just go to the harbour... that's fishy.. UGH!

EDIT:

I am gonna de-slime by sucking it up and whatnot, try to get most of my sand up  I will replant my glosso later, once I've given it a weak bleach bath. I am a bit miffed, but Oh well, such is life.


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

> I will increase the flow. I ran out of ferts. The last one I had actually contained copper, so I may need to find an alternative source... MInd you, with that said, I was dousing with that fert while I had claude in the tank and she never had an issue.


Trace elements of copper are one of the micronutrients that plants need - so most mico-fertilizers will contain a small amount (Seachem Flourish has .0001%, for example).



> Okay: So how does adding nutrients slow the formation of cyanobateria and other algae? Aside of the fact, which I did read, they can take arial nitrogen and earth atomsphere has something like 78% nitrogen or some percentage like that.


Adding the appropriate type/levels of nutrients will slow the formation of algae. Scientifically, I'm not entirely sure how this works (but it does) - and I'm sure very few are. The idea though, is that plants will outcompete algae. Right now, your BGA, being a much less complex lifeform, is likely benefitting from many of the nutrients in your system while not being restricted by a lack of nitrates, like your plants are. This allows the BGA to flourish off excess nutrients in your water column (or your sand).



> SO if it is BBA and the shrimp don't eat it. the shrimp, bottom feeders, eat what is triggering it. So it goes and that's what makes it appear that they do eat it. That makes sense to me. I understand that many things won't eat it because it probably tastes bad and is toxic.


Shrimp and bottom feeders do not eat nitrogen.



> So in summery: Adding some ferts, I will assume root method, adusting the flow, a good gravel vac/and or shrimp to remove decaying slag and possibly giving the sand a poke every now and again, should reduce the issue.


Yes - this sounds like a good start. A blackout will often rid you of the BGA, but without finding the imbalance, it will likely be back in no time.


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## Sunstar (Jul 29, 2008)

Chris S said:


> Shrimp and bottom feeders do not eat nitrogen.


but they will eat the materials that end up producing it.


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

No...

What I am saying is that there is likely a lack of nitrate in the aquarium. Plants need forms of inorganic nitrogen (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate) to flourish.

Organic nitrogen makes up like, 70% of our air and this nitrogen can, and does, dissolve in water. Plants can't use this form of nitrogen, but cyanobacteria can.

Fish poop, fish food, decaying leaves - these all end up producing inorganic nitrogen because the beneficial bacteria break it down into usable forms of nitrogen (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate) that plants can use.

What I am saying is that there is a lack of this inorganic nitrogen for your plants to use, so the cyanobacteria is using organic nitrogen that your plants can't touch. By making up for a lack of this nutrient, it can now use the other nutrients in the water column (like co2), whereas your plants cannot.

Like I said, shrimp and bottom feeders don't eat organic nitrogen


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## Gargoyle (Aug 21, 2008)

Excellent info Chris. Thanks. It may not have been my original question, but I appreciate the info.
I'm going to come out of left field with an observation that has been mildly puzzling to me. I feel there is a connection, at least in my conditions, between growing Hygrophilia difformis, and Cyanobacter blooms. I've several times had blue green slime vanish from afflicted tanks after removing all the difformis I had growing. H difformis thrives in many of my tanks, and it's a great, easy to grow plant for me. I have two tanks that, I guess because of water imbalance, tend to cyanobacter in spite of low fish loads, good clean filters and religious water changing. I can take H difformis from a healthy tank with no visible cb and add it to those tanks, and within a week, I have cb on the gravel a foot away from the hygro. 

Don't worry, I don't regularly add Hygro to these tanks so I can be busy


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## Sunstar (Jul 29, 2008)

So... add some fertilisers....what a cycle.... 

I sucked up a lot of the blue green and uprooted ALL of my glosso. I am in the process of replanting those. I trimmed them into plantlets.

The cyano seems to be only on the sand area. I got this horrible feeling I may have a tear down at somepoint... I am not liking that really. 

UGH Planting glosso is so tedious....


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## Sunstar (Jul 29, 2008)

Just to say, I planted as much glosso as I could without uprooting it all again... and I am doing some heavy arration and whatnot. I do hope the water flow is good for the time being. I will lower the airation later.


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## Sunstar (Jul 29, 2008)

Okay, here we go...
Anyway, I did a quick 30 second video of the algae under my ancient microscope. It appears to be moving and growing!



Is that blue-green or just algae?




Look at the speedly little growth in the bottom left hand corner.

And no, I am not putting music to my videos.... it happens to be playing.


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## Calmer (Mar 9, 2008)

The way your BGA is growing it will be arriving in Pickering in about 3 days 
Did the hydrogen peroxide have any effect on the BGA?
I wonder if Excel would kill BGA as the glutaraldehyde is used to sterilize medical and dental equipment. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glutaraldehyde


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## Sunstar (Jul 29, 2008)

I think it might have, but I am going to check my pots of tests in 24 hours.


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

Post a picture of it without the microscope and I'll be able to tell you


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

yes, what you have in your dish appears to be cyanobacteria. I'd imagine spot treatments with excel would work.

Also, you mentioned that it only grows where there is sand. I know you just uprooted and planted that glosso again, but have you tried to just cover the area that is sand and give it a few days to exterminate the cyanobacteria?


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## Sunstar (Jul 29, 2008)

How do you mean cover it? I'll uproot the poor glosso and put it on the window for the time being.


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## Sunstar (Jul 29, 2008)

Since the issue is in my small tank as well, I took the 4 remaining fry out and I am dousing the tank with Maracyn-TC. I do think it's working. I will treat that tank before taking it down to redo.

How I have done this is taken the package of M-TC and blended it into 20CC of filtered water. Shook it up well. Then I put 10CC of the blend into the 5 Gallon Aquarium. 

I figured out that it's just under 1CC per 2L of water. Since it says one pouch per 10G of water, which is something like 37 L of water. The malasian trumpet snails seem okay. Not sure how shrimp would take to M-TC or just the M (erethromycine) 

My tank IS sick and if this helps and doesn't harm shrimp, I may go through with it.


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## Sunstar (Jul 29, 2008)

Peroxide seems to have killed it in the sample cup. I think spot treatment might be possible there. 

Currently I remove any spots I find, hopefully I can keep up with it.


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

In my opinion you are treating the symptoms, not the root cause.

The only thing I have ever used to eliminate types of algae (and never BGA) is Seachem Excel. Adding all this stuff to your water will likely cause more problems in the long run.


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## Sunstar (Jul 29, 2008)

I am trying to locate the cause, and eliminate the growth. Not sure what it is though... driving me a little mad.


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## Cory_Dad (Apr 18, 2008)

I've been fighting black hair algae in two of my tanks as well (and red hair algae in one tanks for just a few days). Excel does 'control' it but it won't eradicate it. Every couple of months I take out the plants and dip the leaves into a 1:30 bleach and water mixture for a couple of minutes. That does kill it. But eventually it comes back.

Do I over feed? I don''t think so. In the 20 gal tank I have 11 C. napoensis and in the 25 gal I have 8 C. astropersonatus. I feed 1 tablet in each tank in the morning then again in the evening. I vary the type of tablet with 1 of 3 types. Twice a week I replace 1 of the feedings with either frozen brine shrimp or frozen blood worm. Each of the C. tanks get about 15% of the frozen cube with the rest going into my 60 gal.

I also do weekly vacuums and water changes. Still I get it in the smaller tanks. It''s maddening.


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## Sunstar (Jul 29, 2008)

the only thing I can think as the problem has been the sand.


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## Cory_Dad (Apr 18, 2008)

My one tank has pea sized gravel and the other silica sand. Nothing in common there.


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## Calmer (Mar 9, 2008)

Cory_Dad said:


> I've been fighting black hair algae in two of my tanks as well (and red hair algae in one tanks for just a few days). Excel does 'control' it but it won't eradicate it. Every couple of months I take out the plants and dip the leaves into a 1:30 bleach and water mixture for a couple of minutes. That does kill it. But eventually it comes back.


I take it that you are not overdosing with excel? Daily recommended treatments will keep Black Beard/Brush Algae in control. All you need to do is overdose with the fish and other types of animal life moved to another tank for about 3 days to be sure. Normal dosing of Excel lasts about a day in the tank. The whole tank must be done and it is a pain. Supposedly BBA has to be introduced into the tank by outside sources or so I have read. I have eradicated BBA out of my 90gal. finally and hopefully it won't be coming back anytime soon.



> Do I over feed? I don''t think so. In the 20 gal tank I have 11 C. napoensis and in the 25 gal I have 8 C. astropersonatus. I feed 1 tablet in each tank in the morning then again in the evening. I vary the type of tablet with 1 of 3 types. Twice a week I replace 1 of the feedings with either frozen brine shrimp or frozen blood worm. Each of the C. tanks get about 15% of the frozen cube with the rest going into my 60 gal.


Damn they eat better than my kids .



> I also do weekly vacuums and water changes. Still I get it in the smaller tanks. It''s maddening.


Yeah it is lol


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## Cory_Dad (Apr 18, 2008)

_I take it that you are not overdosing with excel?_

No, I only use the recommended dosage.

I was on vacation for 2 weeks so now I have a major breakout of it again. I am truly tempted to strip down both tanks, clean with chlorine and start all over; but I know I won't. What would I have to gripe about then?

_Damn they eat better than my kids_

Ya, since all my kids have moved out, I have extra money for fish food. 

_I have eradicated BBA out of my 90gal._

Did you eradicate it just by double dosing for 3 days? That might just be worth it. Except my Cories are a bitch to net and I really don't want to stress them right now. I have 3 female C. napoensis that look like they are about to burst.

Thanks for that bit of info Calmer.

Cheers.


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## Sunstar (Jul 29, 2008)

Excell does have repercussions on certian plants though? Such as val? Am I correct?


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## Calmer (Mar 9, 2008)

Your welcome Cory_Dad 

I did the dosage 3 times the suggested rate. First, take all the fish/shrimp/wanted snails... out to another seasoned tank. Tore the BBA infected leaves off the Excel sensitive Vals and then chlorine treated the Vals at 1 part chlorine to 20 parts water for 1 minute; then rinsed vals in clean tap water; then put in seasoned tank with fish. 
Unplugged heater and filter. Keep lights and timer running. I lowered the water level (50%) so that I would use less Excel with the 90gal.
Used a sprayer to spray Excel on the glass and everything above 50% waterline. Wait about a day and then refill the tank to the top. Plug heater and filter back in. Let it stand 1 or 2 days. Check the that the temperature is back up to normal for fish. Add a few fish to test and if everything is good after 2-3 hours then add more. 
Please let me know if something is missing or odd about the above method.

There is also the hydrogen peroxide BBA treatment that I have never used before: http://www.gpodio.com/h2o2.asp


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## Cory_Dad (Apr 18, 2008)

Oh, so you remove the fish as well. I was hoping that would not be necessary.

In fact, if I need to remove the fish then I might as well tear down the tank, chlorinate it and the plants (I use 1:30) then set up again. It's less time and cheaper with the same result.

I investigated the H2O2 method and I've read of mixed results. I'm sure as heck not going to do it with my Cories in the tank so I'm back to the tear down method.

I've also read about people using EM to kill the bacteria.

I wonder if doing daily 50% water changes and keeping a squeaky clean tank will do it. Remember my mentioning that in my fishless fry tank there was red hair algae and then it disappeared? Well it disappeared after I scrubbed the sides and bottom (it has no substrate) and did a 50% water change. I really think that's the key here; remove all the nutrients from the water then no more algae.


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Actually, to rid of BBA, you may want to consider just dosing excel and try to maintain a CO2 concentration greater than 15ppm, as I have read that that can be used to keep it at bay.


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## Cory_Dad (Apr 18, 2008)

Only problem with that is I don't use CO2.


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

excel can do the job


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## Cory_Dad (Apr 18, 2008)

Do you think that we've hi-jacked the thread?


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## Sunstar (Jul 29, 2008)

Not at all. 

I am thinking this is most informative, so I don't mind in the least.

I am thinking I am going to set up my breeder tank and prepair to do a tear down of my current setup. I will speculate the root of my problem lies in the undergravel filter and sand. I hate to admit htat as i have used the UGF for years... but I am growing annoyed with being unable to locate the sorce. 

it'll prolly mean my shrimp will have to remain in the breeder until such time as my main tank is recycled as I will have to do a thorough bleaching and peroxide the woods. 

Most miffed.


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## Calmer (Mar 9, 2008)

Cory_Dad said:


> Do you think that we've hi-jacked the thread?


Hi-jacked? Geeez we landed in Cuba 3 days ago. 
It's unfortunate but sometimes it is just best to bite the bullet and devote time to an aquarium tear down. On a positive note tear downs can be times when you can explore new ideas for a new look for a tank. Especially planted tanks.


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## Sunstar (Jul 29, 2008)

I like how I look right now, so I might maintain that...

But I have shrimp in my tank, no youngsters.... what should I do for htem to protect them from ammonia spikes, and also how can I reintroduce the fish/shrimp without reintroducing cyanobacteria?

I just dread replanting all that fragging glosso again.....

what is the best method of doing a tear down / recycling?


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## Cory_Dad (Apr 18, 2008)

Well. if can keep your filter going in another tank then it's really a no brainer.

Move the filter, move the fish, eradicate the algae on the plants with a chlorine dip then rinse the plants in water treated with dechlor.

Drain the main tanks and wash thoroughly using a mild chlorine bleach to disinfect (if I'm not fighting anything I use acetic acid instead). Rinse well. After the chlorine wash I either drain the tank and let dry for several days or if I'm in a hurry I drain and add tap water then double dose with dechlor, let sit for 15 - 20 minutes then drain and fill with treated water. I then add back the disinfected substrate and plants. This I let sit for a day to 'normalize' before adding the fish and putting back the already cycled filter. Not sure if this is the recommended procedure but it's worked for me.

Something just twigged when thinking about my problem with black hair algae. I cycled my 20 gal long using ammonia to give the good bacteria something to feed on. It took a long time to cycle anyway (4 weeks) so I bet the ammonia was a catalyst for the BHA because if I remember correctly it showed up around the time I introduced my fish into the tank. Hmm, I think there is definitely a link there.

Anyway, I hope info in the former paragraph helps.

Cheers.


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## Calmer (Mar 9, 2008)

Follow what Cory_Dad says as it looks like a really good method.
Sunstar, did you get any positive results using Maracyn-TC in the tank that you mentioned earlier? 
Replanting the glosso another time will be a PITA. Do you use tweezers to plant them?


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## Sunstar (Jul 29, 2008)

I did seem to get positive results in the tank with the Maracyn-tc. I will be doing the same in that tank, but I wanted to try to kill it on the plants with the tc.

As for the glosso, yeah. I use tweesers. they're bent tipped needle nose. I use them for my warhammer, which is probably where I get the patience to plant and replant....I can happily dedicate my time to pure tedium for some reason.

I've been spot treating the main tank with small doses of peroxide.... not quite sure how that is going, but seems to help a little.


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## Calmer (Mar 9, 2008)

I was wondering this myself as Erythromycin is the only antibiotic that I heard of that worked. I am not sure of the others.
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/algae/54390-blue-green-algae-vs-maracyn-tc.html


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## Sunstar (Jul 29, 2008)

the question I have is does the anti-biotic hurt inverts like shrimp? Snails, other than my nerite, I couldn't give a flying frag about. with the Maracyn-TC the trumpets are surviving. But for now, it appears the BGA with the Maracyn-TC seems to be suffering. I can have more info shortly. But I read that link before on my search for answers. 

That is why I am testing it on an unoccupied tank... I may experement further.


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

Sunstar said:


> but I am growing annoyed with being unable to locate the sorce.


To be honest, I'm not sure you have really been looking for the source of the problem at all.

There has been quite a few suggestions, but you seem more content to dump chemicals into your tank.

I'll tell you one thing, and that is that no amount or type of algae makes it necessary to tear down and bleach a tank (especially not BGA). 90% of the time it is caused by an imbalance in your water chemistry and is something you can modify and change. That is where the source of the problem lies.

You can destroy it with chemicals and worry about reintroducing it, but I guarantee it will come back unless you play with finding the source. Cyanobacteria is 2 billion odd years old and still around, it will find a way


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## Cory_Dad (Apr 18, 2008)

You're absolutely right about that, but that's the trick, isn't it? At least with tearing down the tank you get everything spotless and unless your tap water has lots of nutrients in it already, there should be slim pickings for the algae.



Chris S said:


> Cyanobacteria is 2 billion odd years old and still around, it will find a way


Chris, I've told you a trillion times, don't exaggerate  But you're right about that too. If the conditions become right again, it'll be back.

Cheers.


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

A planted tank shouldn't be nutrient free though, it should have some sort of balance. In fact, having NO algae in a planted tank is near impossible, but you can limit it by controlling the nutrients in the water column and substrate.

Once you do that, excess algae can be dealt with through things like a good cleanup crew and water changes.

If I was to pick one reason as to why BGA is in her tank, I would say the problem lies with the addition of co2 without the addition of other nutrients (sometimes as simple as just using a good planted substrate, like eco-complete or flourite).

Before I even dealt with that issue though, I would simply move around my filter output and see the effect that has. 

1. Manually remove BGA
2. Reposition output
3. Watch for results


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Actually, Chris is spot on. The tear down, IMO, will do nothing for you, except delay the inevitable return of the algae.

I would try finding out the parameters that have caused algal growth to be stimulated, and rectifying those problems, as opposed to treating them and not really solving the problems. And like Chris said, they found a way in once, they're going to get in there again.

Since this is a relatively new tank (or the problem is), I think you should give it a few more weeks (systems take weeks to reach equillibrium points, so a few days is really nothing, you need to wait long term as this is a long term fix) to try things out like dosing fertilizers and excel (to bring CO2 up, which is a common problem; BBA is promoted by low CO2) to promote favorable conditions for plant growth and discourage the growth of nuiscance algae before going for a drastic (and IMO, ineffective) method of "treating" the algae problem.


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## Sunstar (Jul 29, 2008)

I am thinking this: Which is part of the reason for my thought to tear down the tank.

Nutrient imbalance: 

I've used UGF for a long time, but never with plants, never had anything more htan the brown algae and it was fairly well contained. 

I would rather avoid the use of chemicals. 

But I am thinking I added fertiliser tabs to the tank, which fell through into the area below the UGF. As I use a powerhead on that, it sucks up everything and shunts it into the water collum. 

Again, the sand seems to be the favoured area for the growth, and the rest of the tank appears fine. Hardly any algae at all, brown or otherwise.

I want to point the powerhead more downward, but the glosso is pain enough to keep planted. I have to replant half of it again today... I am slowly going mental.... 

So I am saying, I do have a nutirent imbalance....I think it may have something to do with the UGF. 

Chris, do you think that is a possibility as I cannot manually clean the crud from the UGF. I do water changes and gravel sucks each week, sometimes twice a week, depending.

My cleanup crew include: 

Platy, which love eating leaves that are starting to die and algeae
shrimp, that pick pick pick pick pick pick pick at whatever
Ms. Nerite, who has been absolutely fantastic. she won me over when it comes to snails.
Tsunami, the Thai flying fox... great little guy. 
Molly who seem to pick pick pick too at hairy stuff.

The only fish in my tank not cleanup crew are danio, and i think they just eat their babies anyway.


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

UGFs leave a lot of stuff under them, and is very difficult to clean out. I'd recommend taking the whole UGF out, especially since you have a planted tank, and the roots from the plants will grow into the filter and interfere with function anyways.


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

Well, filtration here might be partially to blame.

You can remove the UGF without having to sterilize your whole tank.

I've done whole tank PLANT tear downs before - actually quite often. If you think that is to blame, remove it. UGF's are useless in my opinion anyway.

I'd say get a nice eheim 2213 or something 

Good luck though - I'm off for the weekend!

Chris


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## Sunstar (Jul 29, 2008)

I was thinking for the most part, the tank's good, I am just... feeling oddly uncomfortable with the UGF. I am using it in tandom with a hang on back. 

I was considering making something to mantain the current, like the Amazon water current setup... they use PVC pipes attached to a filter sponge at one end and it flows the water from one end ot the other. I'd really like to do that. 

It would drive me mental having to wait for it all go get happy again and aggravation everytime a shrimp decides to pull up a plant and reoganise.

What is an eheim? 

Rightnow my aquarium wishlisti s pretty long. Including a master test kit, co2 system and a canister of some sort. 

I tore down the 5 gallon fry tank anyway. I was planning on it so I can get it looking better. I was hoping I could put my shrimp in there when they've berried so I can get a population up before i let them to do their thing in the main tank. As I said, my danio seem to be my clean up crew on bite sized animals.


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Eheim canister filters:
http://www.eheim.com/base/eheim/inhalte/indexb2ad.html?key=9er_24958_ehen

They make a wide range of what are regarded as the best canister filters.

Definite workhorses, and are known to last a long long long time. I am a definite fan of them (20g- 2215, 15g - 2215, 75g - 2x 2217, and a spare 2213). Definitely the canister filter you will want to get on your wish list.


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## Sunstar (Jul 29, 2008)

I will definately consider them if you folk think they are worth it. added to my wish list.


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

This one's on mine:

http://www.petsandponds.com/securestore/c7359p17033898.2.html


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## Sunstar (Jul 29, 2008)

WOW! those aren't cheap.....

been pruning some not so pretty bits off my plants. I am gonna wash my buckets out with peroxide in the morning and do the water change then. I replanted a whack of glosso everyone insists on uprooting.


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## Sunstar (Jul 29, 2008)

Good news thus far, BGA has been controlled. Whatever it is I did, I did it right....knock on wood.


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## Calmer (Mar 9, 2008)

Hopefully


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## Sunstar (Jul 29, 2008)

my only major issue now is the Hydra and Planaria. WHen I get that remedied, I wonder what the heck will be next... shall we put bets on?


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## Cory_Dad (Apr 18, 2008)

I always thought danios make short work of hydra. Am I mistaken?


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## Sunstar (Jul 29, 2008)

I am not sure what they do. I know that I have them in two of the three tanks. One tank is still in nuked status. They came in on my water lettuce I think. Which, shame on me, I didn't treat prior to dropping into my tanks. 

I've taken a couple out ot keep and study out of interest.


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## Cory_Dad (Apr 18, 2008)

Ok, your reply made me do some research on hydra. Boy, was I ever out to lunch.

It seems one of the best ways to eradicate them is with Flubendazole but I'm still looking where to purchase it. Flubendazole is the chemical, not an end product.

Learn something new every day...

Found this link: http://www.absolute-koi.com/article11.html

Seems Fluke-M from Kusuri is Flubendazole based but I've yet to find a Canadian retailer, just in the UK

http://www.kusuri.co.uk/shopping.php?class_id=56


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## Gargoyle (Aug 21, 2008)

I have a forty long that has had consistent cyanobacter outbreaks. I have gotten it well under control, and am now having other algae outbreaks in it. I've decided this weekend's project is the removal of all the gravel. That's the only thing in there I haven't changed. I'm willing to bet I will have a nice, scenic tank within a week or two.

Eventually, you find the source and it goes away.


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## Sunstar (Jul 29, 2008)

they say Fenbendazole is just as good. Works in a tank that contains shrimp too. The portions was something like 0.1 gram per 10 gallon of water generally done twice. That's a 10th of a packet. The second dosing is done somehting like 48 hours later. Also known as Panacur or safeguard. I will be trying to locate some today. Fenbendazole works for planaria too. it doesn't disolve

I've been reading about hydra for a few days. they are very interesting. Kinda freaky.


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