# couple questions about aquarium lighting



## Patrick K (Sep 10, 2013)

Hi guys! im new to the hobby and recently purchased a beginners tank (30 gal) with lights included. they are led lights. i am now planting live plants in the tank but im worried about the lighting! it doesn't seem to be strong enough for the plants. to the left of my tank i planted najas grass today and the others im not sure of the name but i am noticing they are turning brown in the middle but growing from the ends (posted pics below).

i did some research and im think of purchasing a T5 HO fixture. but not sure yet. When shopping for light what am i supposed to look for? i want to know how much light i need to grow plants that need medium to high lighting. this is a 30 gal and i did hear of the method W per G but i heard its not the best way to go about it! let me know what you guys think.thanks!


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## Norman (Feb 13, 2011)

If its the Marineland tank with the single bright LED's then you'll need new lights for sure. I find that light is barely good enough for low light plants... A T5 HO fixture is the way to go... Personally I love the Aquatic Life fixtures. Keep in mind that you will probably need to dose Excel or set yourself up with CO2. I run my 75G tank on two T5HO bulbs using Excel. I have low to medium plants only though...


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## Patrick K (Sep 10, 2013)

Norman said:


> If its the Marineland tank with the single bright LED's then you'll need new lights for sure. I find that light is barely good enough for low light plants... A T5 HO fixture is the way to go... Personally I love the Aquatic Life fixtures. Keep in mind that you will probably need to dose Excel or set yourself up with CO2. I run my 75G tank on two T5HO bulbs using Excel. I have low to medium plants only though...


okay thanks a lot! but how about the bulbs? wat kind of bulbs and how many? how strong and what k value? also about the CO2 did u buy a system or did u make it yourself?


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

Best is aquarium bulbs, Most of us use 6500 k as it is the truest colour. I have been using the zoo med brand lately myself. 

Some people buy standard 6500 k bulbs from the hardware store. I have one light using standard bulbs and they don't seem to be quite as good, Phillips I believe. There might be some brands of standard bulbs that are good but its hit and miss it seems.

A double t5ho should be perfect for a 30 gallon

Not sure how long your tank is, I'm guessing 30 inches. If so, you will probably not find a 30 inch light, but you can use a 24 inch light just fine on a 30 inch tank.


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## Reckon (Mar 6, 2013)

pyrrolin said:


> A double t5ho should be perfect for a 30 gallon.


+1 
Any double bulb fixture the length of your tank regardless of brand should work.


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

many 24 inch fixtures have arms that go out to use on a 30 inch tank. Mine does.


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## Patrick K (Sep 10, 2013)

okay thanks a lot that clears up a lot! is there a certain amount of watts i should have when running the 6700k? or is it all the same


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## Reckon (Mar 6, 2013)

Nope. 2 T5HO bulbs at 6700K should be enough to even grow high light plants using CO2. That being said though avoid the cheap knock off fixtures with crap reflectors. Yet, even if you get those you should be able to grow plants, though you probably be running a greater risk of a short and a fire.

I have a 30gal that is 36x12x18 running 2 T5HO on a Tek fixture and I'm doing quite well with plants (you can have a look at my journal in the planted tank photos section). I just borrowed a par meter and when I have time tomorrow I'll measure how much par is at the substrate level using this fixture.


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

6500 k or 6700 k, depends on manufacturer, same thing basically

all t5ho of the same size are the same watts. 48 inch t5ho are 54 watts for example


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## TorontoPlantMan (Aug 16, 2013)

If you can...I'd try to find a T5HO fixture that is a TRUE 30". Meaning stay away from the aquatic life fixtures as they label their 30" fixtures as being 30" but it takes a 24" bulb which leaves the sides of your tank harder to grow plants. I have a Coralife fixture and it's a true 30" fixture with the bulbs going all the way to the end.


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## Patrick K (Sep 10, 2013)

what do you guys think about this setup? 




i would run 3 15w 6700k bulbs.. would this be enough to get a "high" amount of light to get plants that need "high" amounts of light? l


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## Reckon (Mar 6, 2013)

So I checked the PAR of two bulbs on a tek T5HO fixture in a 18 deep 30gal tank. It's about 60PAR. That is enough for carpet plants. I'm thinking that almost any 2 bulb fixture should give you what you need to grow to your heart's content.


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

Here is the bulb I use in my 24 inch t5ho fixture over 24 or 30 inch tanks. I think the 15 watt you were looking at was t5no or maybe t8

http://www.aquariumsupplies.ca/ultra-24watt-p-5925.html


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## Mykuhl (Apr 8, 2013)

TorontoPlantMan said:


> If you can...I'd try to find a T5HO fixture that is a TRUE 30". Meaning stay away from the aquatic life fixtures as they label their 30" fixtures as being 30" but it takes a 24" bulb which leaves the sides of your tank harder to grow plants. I have a Coralife fixture and it's a true 30" fixture with the bulbs going all the way to the end.


I dunno, I have a 2 bulb 30" T5HO Aquaticlife fixture that has the 24" bulbs over my 20 gallon long and I don't find that it's any darker on the ends of the tank. I think because it sits a few inches above the tank with the legs, that it creates enough of a spread to get even light. Also, the advantge of getting a fixture that uses 24" bulbs as opposed to 30" bulbs is that you have a much large selection of bulbs to choose from. There are very fe choices for 30" T5s out there, and not all bulbs are created equal.


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

MOPS doesn't even have 30 inch bulbs, just bulbs for 24 36, nothing in the middle.

Best to go with a 24 inch fixture that has extenders to be able to buy bulbs. 3 inches on each side is fine. It's not like you try to cover the width of the tank to, the tanks I have that are 12 deep, the light only covers about 4 inches, so the front and back 4 inches by some peoples view, wouldn't be able to grow plants, but the light spreads out that way, it will spread out lengthwise to.

I see an advantage of a light that isn't quite as long as the tank, when the bulbs are right to the sides, right at the top of the glass on the sides, you have light extremely close to the glass for algae to grow extra well.


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## Patrick K (Sep 10, 2013)

i was looking at getting three clip on lamps and putting 15w 6700k compact florescent in them to light my 30 gal up.. just like in this video 



 what do you guys think?


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

Patrick K said:


> i was looking at getting three clip on lamps and putting 15w 6700k compact florescent in them to light my 30 gal up.. just like in this video
> 
> 
> 
> what do you guys think?


Trust me, it's more trouble than they're worth. Compact fluorescents are simply not nearly as efficient as T5HO bulbs. These clip-ons also have a huge foot print, making any maintenance of the tank a pain in the ass.

Most importantly, how much do you figure you'd be spending for 3 clip-on lights? I don't know, but I do know that you can get this light for 80$, bulbs included, and never worry about not having enough light again.


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## Patrick K (Sep 10, 2013)

solarz said:


> Trust me, it's more trouble than they're worth. Compact fluorescents are simply not nearly as efficient as T5HO bulbs. These clip-ons also have a huge foot print, making any maintenance of the tank a pain in the ass.
> 
> Most importantly, how much do you figure you'd be spending for 3 clip-on lights? I don't know, but I do know that you can get this light for 80$, bulbs included, and never worry about not having enough light again.


wow thanks a lot! that truly is a good deal and that's what i am going to go with! but what the difference between the fixture you linked me to and lets say aquatic life fixture http://www.bigalspets.ca/t5-ho-freshwater-linkable-light-fixture-2-x-24-w-30.html ?


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

Patrick K said:


> wow thanks a lot! that truly is a good deal and that's what i am going to go with! but what the difference between the fixture you linked me to and lets say aquatic life fixture http://www.bigalspets.ca/t5-ho-freshwater-linkable-light-fixture-2-x-24-w-30.html ?


The brand is cheaper. Odyssea is probably the cheapest T5HO fixture. Some people say its reflectors aren't as good, or build quality is "poor", but I've been using their 2x18W T5HO fixture on my 20 gallon for over a year now with no problem.

I also have a 4x54W Odyssea fixture. I bought it second-hand, so no idea how old it really is. One ballast crapped out a few weeks after I bought it, but the other one has been chugging along for over a year now.


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## Patrick K (Sep 10, 2013)

solarz said:


> The brand is cheaper. Odyssea is probably the cheapest T5HO fixture. Some people say its reflectors aren't as good, or build quality is "poor", but I've been using their 2x18W T5HO fixture on my 20 gallon for over a year now with no problem.
> 
> I also have a 4x54W Odyssea fixture. I bought it second-hand, so no idea how old it really is. One ballast crapped out a few weeks after I bought it, but the other one has been chugging along for over a year now.


okay i think i will go with the odyssea fixture anyways. if i buy the 24" odyssea T5 HO fixture would i be able to find bulbs at my local fish store to replace after awhile or are they custom?


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## Reckon (Mar 6, 2013)

T5HO bulbs should all be the same. I haven't seen a fixture using incompatible ones yet.


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## Reckon (Mar 6, 2013)

Patrick K said:


> to the left of my tank i planted najas grass today and the others im not sure of the name but i am noticing they are turning brown in the middle but growing from the ends


Just want to chime in that when you see new growth that's a good sign. Often plants need to acclimatize to a new tank's parameters and as such old growth dies off a bit. I notice that there is new naja grass growth at the substrate level so this is probably the case rather than an issue of too little lighting. That being said a bit more light isn't a bad thing, though I too agree with one of the previous comments that unless you don't intend to keep plants along the far corners of the tank (a scape where everthing is in the middle, looks great with a few bits of wood and a big thin leaf java fern) it's probably better going with a 30" bulb for a 30" tank.


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

Reckon said:


> Just want to chime in that when you see new growth that's a good sign. Often plants need to acclimatize to a new tank's parameters and as such old growth dies off a bit. I notice that there is new naja grass growth at the substrate level so this is probably the case rather than an issue of too little lighting. That being said a bit more light isn't a bad thing, though I too agree with one of the previous comments that unless you don't intend to keep plants along the far corners of the tank (a scape where everthing is in the middle, looks great with a few bits of wood and a big thin leaf java fern) it's probably better going with a 30" bulb for a 30" tank.


I would disagree. With enough light, it doesn't have to be 30" long. I use two 18" bulbs on my 20-gallon (24" wide), and it's plenty of light.

Also, just because a plant has new growth doesn't mean there's sufficient light. One of the characteristics of poor light is constant new growth and shedding of old leaves. I've kept a planted tank with one T8 bulb for over a year, so I've seen this happen many times.

To the OP: how tall is your tank?


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## Reckon (Mar 6, 2013)

solarz said:


> I would disagree. With enough light, it doesn't have to be 30" long. I use two 18" bulbs on my 20-gallon (24" wide), and it's plenty of light.
> 
> Also, just because a plant has new growth doesn't mean there's sufficient light. One of the characteristics of poor light is constant new growth and shedding of old leaves. I've kept a planted tank with one T8 bulb for over a year, so I've seen this happen many times.
> 
> To the OP: how tall is your tank?


Fair enough, both of these points can be true. To the first, using a PAR meter I've just found that in the corners there's a significant drop in brightness. This is of course made worse with a shorter bulb. So I avoid putting plants that require high light in those areas since they tend to do poorly. That being said those are for plants that require high light and co2 conditions. If the OP intends to just use low light plants then the issue may be moot.
To the second, a melting of old growth can be an issue of poor lighting but perhaps it's possible he just needs to remove the old growth, replant, and see if it just acclimatizes to the new tank. This is naja grass afterall. But a little extra light can't hurt.


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

Reckon said:


> Fair enough, both of these points can be true. To the first, using a PAR meter I've just found that in the corners there's a significant drop in brightness. This is of course made worse with a shorter bulb. So I avoid putting plants that require high light in those areas since they tend to do poorly. That being said those are for plants that require high light and co2 conditions. If the OP intends to just use low light plants then the issue may be moot.
> To the second, a melting of old growth can be an issue of poor lighting but perhaps it's possible he just needs to remove the old growth, replant, and see if it just acclimatizes to the new tank. This is naja grass afterall. But a little extra light can't hurt.


Agreed, it all depends on the kind of tank desired. The guys at Aquainspiration run 6 bulbs for their tanks, and claim 2 bulbs is not enough light.


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

Just for the sake of info, I use clamp lamps on my 29G tanks at the moment. They weren't too horribly costly, or at least I didn't think they were when I got them. I didn't get them all at once, started with a couple and then got more. If I'd thought about it more at the time I doubt I'd have gone this route. When I did, I could get 8 inch aluminum ones at HD, for 15 bucks, not incl. tax. Bulbs I buy in boxes of four, much cheaper that way. 23 W spiral 6500 K daylight spirals, I think a box was around ten bucks or so, IIRC. Been awhile since I had to buy any.

Three hang over each tank. They will grow many things, but not carpet plants. I also got some that were painted, same size, black with white interiors, 11 bucks each, plus tax. They work as well as the others. All of them have tended to get very loose after awhile, with the reflectors refusing to stay fastened in place. They can't fall off because the bulb prevents it, but it's annoying.

The price of these fixtures has risen substantially in the past few months. HD now charges about 20 bucks for their aluminum ones, Cantire charges over 25, but theirs is in a box and has an extra four feet of cord length. The black ones are now close to 30 bucks, but that's with a heat resistant socket. I can't find any more like the ones I got at all now.

If I were to do it again, I wouldn't go this route, but they have served well and have grown most things I wanted to grow. In shallower tanks they grow anything. My frog tank has one over it, it provides heat and light, grows everything too well. Only about ten or eleven inches deep, this tank has water lettuce flowering, blyxa flourishing, as is glosso on the substrate and many stem plants that are pickier than most regularly grow to the glass lid and have to be cut back. If not for the floating plant cover the frogs need, this tank would be solid plant from top to bottom. 

So the spiral bulbs can be very, very good, in the right situation. But over a larger tank, I think you'd need at least six of the 23W ones to have a chance to grow carpeting plants. I've thought about building a fixture with six of these.. just haven't built it, and now I'm adding aquaponic troughs over the tanks, there won't be room for the fixture I had in mind. I'll have to come up with something else.

But that gives you some idea of what they can do and what they cost. I use two 11 W bulbs like these over a 5G, which grows anything I put in it, and I had one 11 W over a small round tank of 2G, and it grew stuff like nothing I've seen. So they do have their uses. If I had plants that needed some supplemental light, I'd use one of these aimed from the outside lower down the tank wall, and I think it would work great. Might not look great, but I'm quite sure it would work to light the lower levels for more demanding plants if what you have on top is not quite enough.


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## Patrick K (Sep 10, 2013)

im going to go with the ODYSSEA 24IN T5HO 2X24W and hope for the best for my 30 gal! hopefully will be able to grow some carpet as well with this fixture!


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## Kurare (Oct 8, 2010)

Welcome to the hobby! While everyone here has given you "I did this and it worked", or something of the rather. Because you're new, there's a lot of researching to do. I will be writing about a page... bare with me.

First off, you have to understand what light IS, how it's produced in lamps/bulbs and the interactions with plants. When you understand this, you'll understand WHAT you're buying and how cost effective things are. I'll make this as brief as possible. Light is a spectrum of waves, visible light has various colours you want. Here is a picture to show you what I'm talking about.










Next you need to know PLANTS! 








http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081118165319AA7ayS7

So now you know about what light is, and the spectrum of light plants use to soak up for it's health. Why is this important? Cheap lighting solutions!
With this knowledge you can search out the peak ranges of spectrum needed for plant health, while getting some "brightly lit" aquarium. While t5h0 used to be the "go to" and has been a mainstay for the hobby; technology now gives us options! CFL and LEDs!! Cheap to buy, cheap to make, cheap on your wallet. Same wattage if not less, for more lumens (I'll get to that later). Back to types of lighting:

Here is a link, look through them:
http://www.popularmechanics.com/tec...scent-vs-led-ultimate-light-bulb-test#slide-1
--Hit view larger on specific bulbs/led to see spectrum

Lastly, the important piece about "wattage". It used to be that wattage directly correlates to "brightness". More wattage, more lumens produced. New tech = less wattage, but same about of brightness. And they last longer, well on paper its suppose to; and they're stupid cheap to replace (CFL/LED). So what's important here? The tank depth. Here's a picture...










As a rule of thumb, people say 2watts/gal. But... I really don't like that rule due to tank shapes/sizes. IE: same gallon tank, but different depths. If anything, it should be lumens/depth x sq area. LOL... (I made that up... but it seems more correct in my head). Blinding the fish isn't cool either, gotta let them swim around and stuff ya know? =)

Now you have to consider this + water. The diffusal (sp?) of light in water... I couldn't find anything about this with a quick search, but yeah I'm sure you get the idea.
The key thing I'm trying to show you in this post is that, light and plants is a science pretty worked out. Give them what they need and they will grow. 
How can YOU Patrick K, save money and even exploring other options is the goal of this post. If you decide to run t5h0's that's perfectly fine too as I mentioned earlier; it is a mainstream method of lighting after all.

PS: Sand sucks for rooted plants.... special measures are needed.

Hope this helps other newcomers as well! If this post gets buried, just PM me and I'd be glad to give an answer if I know it.


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

I think you might have been looking for the word diffract.. light diffracts passing through water. I have pics of 'rainbows' on the floor from the low angle winter sun shining through the water in my tanks onto the floor. Kind 'o cool, only happens at certain times of day in winter, if it's sunny.

Or maybe diffusion.. water can diffuse light too. Great post btw.


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## Patrick K (Sep 10, 2013)

thanks a lot this really helped and now i know what i need!


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## Patrick K (Sep 10, 2013)

i have one more question
how long should i run my lights a day? i bought a 2x24 w t5ho aquaticlife fixture and im running co2 in the tank? how long should my lights be on for?


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## Kurare (Oct 8, 2010)

Plants do not require sleep, they their job in life is, absorb light, use energy to convert CO2 to O2, and grow. Thus, 24/7 is fine. If you have any nocturnal fish, this can be a concern. Most fish sleep via suspended animation anyways. Just depends on how long you want your bulb to last. LOL


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

usually around 8 to 10 hours. Too long and you will get too much algae. Plants do need rest. Find what works best for you. I turn mine on late in the afternoon and turn them off late at night. This is the time frame that I would see them or be working on them.

Some flowers close up at night and open again in the morning.

in nature, there is a cycle of day and night. Both plants and fish need this cycle.


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## Kurare (Oct 8, 2010)

Frankly, it depends on the plant... terrestrial mostly, but aquatic plants don't really need rest imo. People often have the idea that terrestrial is the same as aquatic... 
The KEY thing to bare in mine mostly is the "light intensity", 1 hour of some CRAZY intense light can kill a plant just as well as 24hrs of low intensity. Know what your plants need.
I mean honestly, look at algae, it's pretty much a plant organism, has chlorophyll needs light (intense), and if ran 24hrs a day it will GROW LIKE MAD (given proper conditions). Look up "algae scrubbers".

Q: CAN PLANTS GET TOO MUCH LIGHT?
A: Plants cannot get too much light, but they can get too much of the heat energy that comes with the light. ETC ETC ETC (http://www.cropking.com/articlelghe)

-----------------
When Plants Get Too Much Sun 
Plants rely on a carotenoid to protect themselves from overexposure to light.

Plants protect themselves from excess light, which can lead to oxidative damage to chlorophyll and other key photosynthetic pigments

Zeaxanthin, a carotenoid known to be produced by plants in response to bright sunlight, is responsible for the protective effect.

Exposing spinach leaves to intense light triggers the formation of zeaxanthin cation radicals. These cation radicals form when zeaxanthin binds to potentially dangerous photoexcited chlorophyll molecules. The zeaxanthin gives up an electron to the excited chlorophyll, yielding a chlorophyll anion radical and a zeaxanthin cation radical. These products subsequently undergo charge recombination, allowing the excited-state energy of chlorophyll to be safely dissipated as heat.

This process is known as de-excitation.
Source:
January 24, 2005 
Chemist Graham R. Fleming, plant biologist Krishna K. Niyogi, and coworkers at Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory and the University of California, Berkeley.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070515025941AAVUUTj
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http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/plants/Hudson_Lighting.html (kinda dry read)


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