# Please help me with my fish cycle



## d_lit_e (Sep 27, 2011)

I bought a 29gallon on October 1st and added 3 feeder goldfish to start its cycle, I currently have 2 filters running (TopFin 30 & Penguin 200) and also the water temperature is maintained to 80F. Today I found one dead and another has white spots with a damaged tail. I immediately did a 30% water change and made sure I used enough water dechlorinator. I need help on what steps I should take on insuring that the tank gets cycled.


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## Pamelajo (Aug 9, 2009)

Hi sorry you lost one of your goldfish. Feeder fish are not always the healthiest so it may have been out of your control. The one thing I notice is the temperature, goldfish are cold water fish and do not require any heat. They can survive outdoors in ponds in winter months.
I am not sure if there is a sticky here about cycling but there is one here:

http://www.canadianaquariumconnection.com/forum/showthread.php?t=497
Hope this helps.


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## Will (Jul 24, 2008)

Agreed, optimum temperature for gold fish is said to be between 68° F and 72° F. Don't know who's decided this, but it seems pretty consitent among many info sources. And as Pam said, they survive well below those temperatures in the right conditions even.

Please elaborate on these white spots. Clear pics would be ideal even.


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## J-P (Feb 27, 2011)

when fish are introduced to a new tank there will be stress. When they are introduced to an uncycled tank there will also be stress. Given that you have both of these elements and a greater temp, what little immune system they left have is compromised.
You can cycle a tank with a live fish;
You can cycle a tank with a dead fish;
You can also cycle a tank without any fish.

Do you have any test kits for the readings? What is the ammonia level?


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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

This is why it's always better to cycle a tank without a fish.
Please see link:
http://gtaaquaria.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8458
Right now, it sounds like you have Ick. Please look it up over the internet. If it is, you will either need to treat it naturally or through the use of medication.
For the natural method, you will need to keep the temperature at 80f. Then add 1 tablespoon of salt per 5 gallon of water. Don't use table salt, use Kosher salt, epson salt or sea salt. The way I heard is that table salt have an anti-cuagulant agent that is bad for the fish's gills.
Do a water change every 3 days. Replace the amount of salt as needed. Ie., if you take out 5 gallons of water, then add 1 tablespoon of salt after you added 5 gallons of new water back in.
Keep doing the above until you stop seeing spots on your fish. Then leave it like that for 7 more days. At the end of that 7 days, you can stop adding salt after your make your water changes.

Also, as J-P said, you will need to buy a water test kit to test for the following 3: ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. Without the tests, there is no way anyone can tell you if your cycle completed or not. Every thing is a blind guess at this point.

Don't leave a dead fish in the tank. Using death and decay to start a tank is the worst possible way to start a fish hoby. There are much better options to cycle a tank. The easiest would have been to ask some one to trade you a used sponge media.

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## Bwhiskered (Oct 2, 2008)

I have never cycled a tank in the whole 60 years that I've been in the hobby. I use tap water that has been filtered with carbon. I add up to 25% water from a healthy tank and put in the fish and never have a problem.

Nobody even heard of the nitrate cycle years ago as it had not been discovered yet. Chlorine disipated in 24 hours then and other chemicals were not added. The more you mess and fuss with the water the more trouble you will have. Up until a year ago all I ever had or used was a PH test kit and used a soap hardness test kit until I bought a TDS meter when I got my first RO unit 20 years ago. I have the other test kits and have only used them once to try them out.

Store feeder fish are either sick or carry disease.


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## BillD (Jun 5, 2006)

My experience pretty much mirrors Charlie's except for the RO and TDS part, and only slightly less time, although I don't have near the experience or wealth of knowledge Charlie does. As to when the nitrate cycle was first known I can't say. However, I have a book before me entitled Aquarium Hygiene, written by Hellmuth Wachtel, published in 1963 by Aquarium Paperbacks, that describes the nitrogen cycle and methods of filtration, including wet/dry.


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## d_lit_e (Sep 27, 2011)

Day 6: The fish with the white spots has passed on, as of right now the lone feeder fish looks active and healthy.I will be investing in an accurate drip test kit sometime this week so I have no test results to report.

I wanted to ask, should I wait for the cycle to finish before I change the filter media of the TopFin 30 with biomedia ceramic rings, would it disrupt the cycle too soon?
If the last feeder fish were to perish before the cycle completes, should I slowly start adding fish I plan to stock the tank with(tropical community fish) or buy a replacement feeder fish OR finish the cycle fish-less(pure ammonia)?
Thanks for the vast amount of responses, I will keep all the tips in mind.


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## splur (May 11, 2011)

Speeding up cycling a tank only gets you into trouble later on when you add fish. Especially because now it seems you have an ick infected tank. 

Honestly, get some used filter media from someone near you. It'll save you the trouble of all of this happening.


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## d_lit_e (Sep 27, 2011)

I don't know anyone that keeps an aquarium currently. How do I know if I have ick in the tank if this fish doesn't show signs of it?


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## splur (May 11, 2011)

You won't know until the fish gets it lol. Technically they have to find a host within 2-3 days though, after which they die. So if it's been more than that and your fish shows no signs of it then you're probably okay.

Post up something in the hardware section in the marketplace forum. I'm sure there will be someone who wouldn't mind giving you used media in your area.


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## d_lit_e (Sep 27, 2011)

Day 7: 
I bought a box of Fluval biomedia ceramic rings and they are now in my TopFin 30, I also bought an API Freshwater Master Test Kit, so here are the results I got from the tests.

Ammonia: its either 0 ppm or 0.25 ppm, in between maybe?

Nirite: 0 ppm

Nirate: 0ppm

I am very disappointed at the results but I am glad I picked up 6 large feeder fish at PetSmart. I guess ammount of fish I had did not create enough ammonia for the tank to cycle.
Back to day 1..


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

d_lit_e said:


> Day 7:
> I bought a box of Fluval biomedia ceramic rings and they are now in my TopFin 30, I also bought an API Freshwater Master Test Kit, so here are the results I got from the tests.
> 
> Ammonia: its either 0 ppm or 0.25 ppm, in between maybe?
> ...


You could have just put some fish food in there...


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## d_lit_e (Sep 27, 2011)

I read that cycling the tank with fish food is really bad, the phosphate levels can really harm fish.


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

d_lit_e said:


> I read that cycling the tank with fish food is really bad, the phosphate levels can really harm fish.


Where did you read that? Phosphates are pretty much harmless. You'd have to have a whole lot of it for it to become toxic. Further, fish themselves produce phosphate as well. If cycling with fish food was bad, then you'd never be able to feed your fish in the first place!

As it is, you're setting up your tank to be a cauldron of diseases.


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## splur (May 11, 2011)

I dunno why you're buying feeder goldfish... I've only ever cycled tanks with used filter media and never had a problem. Feeder goldfish carry disease and die easily... seems like a waste.


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## Amazongypsy (Oct 21, 2010)

d_lit_e said:


> Day 7:
> I bought a box of Fluval biomedia ceramic rings and they are now in my TopFin 30, I also bought an API Freshwater Master Test Kit, so here are the results I got from the tests.
> 
> Ammonia: its either 0 ppm or 0.25 ppm, in between maybe?
> ...


Why don't you go back to that Petsmart that sold you the feeders,rings and test kits and ask them for a handful of gravel and/or a dirty filter pad from a cycled tank. 6 feeders and no bio filter in that tank.....oh man, that's gonna be a rough cycle if the feeders live long enough. 
I would give you both but I am too far away. Good luck


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## d_lit_e (Sep 27, 2011)

This is why I am cycling with feeder fish.. I was recommended by the worker at PetSmart to set-up my fish tank running for 5 days and then return to him with a water sample. He wanted me to set-up the tank with water and leave it there without touching it, I felt something was wrong so I asked, "where does my fish tank get the ammonia it requires to begin a cycle" etc. etc. He ends up asking a co-worker and I was told to cycle with feeder fish and then return in 5 days and start stocking with the fish I want. I had no qualms about buying the feeder fish to take home because the feeder fish looked way more active and healthy compared to their tropical tanks that had dead fish floating around. Even yesterday, I asked him what water test kit to get, he ended to comparing some no name brand of test strips($45) with API Freshwater Master Test Kit($30), he ended up trying to convince me to get the test strips and made some reference about how he used to maintain his swimming pool.. and using the API FW Kit would require the brains of a chemist *sigh*

Sorry for the huge block of words, I'm still going to be very patient and make sure I test the tank every other day until its cycled before I stock with the tropical fish I ultimately want.


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## J-P (Feb 27, 2011)

Test strips are almost useless go with the liquid test kit.

The information given to you by your LFS is kind of poor. If you cycle with fish you'll have to have a bottle of "prime" or other water conditioner on hand to tackle the ammonia until you get it settled. 

When I did a fishless cycle, it took about 4~6 weeks to complete from scratch.

Finding used filter media is the quickest way to do it, as long as it hasn't been washed under tap water containing chlorine.


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## SourGummy (Apr 29, 2011)

if you happens to be around scarborough town centre let me know and i'll give you one of the pads in my HOB filter


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## GAT (Oct 8, 2011)

From what i read around, it is so much easier to just do the fishless cycling.

read this if you want more information http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/113861-fishless-cycling/


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## d_lit_e (Sep 27, 2011)

The tank has been cycled, the goldfish have been re-homed and now the 29g tank is home to 1 male blue, black & dark red veil tailed betta along with 18 neon tetras (9 smalls & 8 mediums)

Thanks for the replys everybody


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## rkay (May 8, 2011)

Are you sure its completely cycled? What kind of test kit are you using?

15 days seems extremely quick, mine took like 45.


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## splur (May 11, 2011)

rkay said:


> Are you sure its completely cycled? What kind of test kit are you using?
> 
> 15 days seems extremely quick, mine took like 45.


Haha, yeah also I hope his plan isn't to add a bunch of fish at once now that it may be cycled.


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