# Stocking Joeee's 32G



## Joeee (Apr 3, 2010)

I've been trying to decide on something to stock my 32G with since Feburary, I think I need help deciding. It currently has 2 ottos in it (I've been looking to get 3 more), some pond snails, a colony of red cherries, and a few CRS with 1 pregger. This is a planted tank with 1 hygrophilia, scarlet temple, some unidentified leafy plant, and some Java moss. I'll be making a tree out of the Java moss once it grows a bit more.

A few pests I have in there (just in case) - Copepods, seed shrimp, and planaria

I want something more difficult than guppies or cardinal tetras but not difficult to the point where it's like a saltwater fish. This fish should breed occasionally and not be too difficult to sell to other people or LFS. I don't mind if they eat their own children.

I was thinking killifish, but I saw some "dry season" breeding with peat moss that looked like a bother. 

What else can I stock the tank with? What cichlids could I put in? I don't want anything insultingly easy like convicts.

Filtration - AquaClear 50 and a sponge filter


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## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

How about a colony of Neolamprologus brichardi?







?









Or a colony of Demasoni









Saulosi colony?









Sajica pair?

All of them will eat your shrimp, beat your ottos and screw with your aquascape (ie, rehome, rescape needed) but they're great fish.


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## Joeee (Apr 3, 2010)

I wanted to use the red cherries as feeders and move my crystal reds to a 10G in my room.

The Neolamprologus brichardi are pretty. How many could I fit into the tank?


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## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

Joeee said:


> I wanted to use the red cherries as feeders and move my crystal reds to a 10G in my room.
> 
> The Neolamprologus brichardi are pretty. How many could I fit into the tank?


You could start with a male and a few females, maybe 1m 3f. It's a really nice fish. They're a little bit wacky. If they're spawning, about to spawn, or feel you're threatening their young, they'll bite you. Repeatedly. More so than most cichlids and surprisingly hard for their size. You have to keep an eye on the group because sometimes you'll end up with too many males or a delta female and one fish gets isolated and beaten up and if you don't remove that fish it will eventually be killed. They're a popular fish and easy to trade away to stores.

The fish will rear several generations of young. The 'teenage' fish will assist in taking care of their younger brothers and sisters. If you keep the numbers reasonable by selling some off now and then you can keep a colony of them going happily.

They don't need a whole lot. A sand substrate would be ideal, because of the way that they spawn, but it isn't necessary. They like intricate rockwork and a series of caves.






Here's a nice setup.

Unfortunately in a 30ish gallon tank, though you could have other fish, you would have aggression issues you probably don't want to deal with so if you like Brichardi it's a good species only tank IMO.

You could also go with Neolamprologus pulcher (Daffodil Cichlid) and keep them in the same way.

If you go with anything from lake Tanganyika (which you would be), I'd suggest keeping your pH at 8 or above. You can do this many ways. The easiest one is to use an alkaline substrate, like an aragonite sand or crushed coral sand for example. Another way is to use a product like Seachem's "Malawi" and "Tanganyika buffer". I've found the Tanganyika buffer reacts a bit strangely with Toronto tap water and sends the pH up to about 9.5 even at a tiny dose and the kH it adds at that dose isn't enough to sustain itself to it makes a bit mess. I use the Malawi buffer with my tangs right now, which gives me pH 8 kH 10 @ 1 tsp per 5 gallons. It's not really necessary to adjust your water chemistry and the fish will live and breed fine without it. I've found it produces nicer fish to get closer to their natural environment but other people have produced incredibly gorgeous fish without doing this.


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## Joeee (Apr 3, 2010)

AquariAM said:


> You could start with a male and a few females, maybe 1m 3f. It's a really nice fish. They're a little bit wacky. If they're spawning, about to spawn, or feel you're threatening their young, they'll bite you. Repeatedly. More so than most cichlids and surprisingly hard for their size. You have to keep an eye on the group because sometimes you'll end up with too many males or a delta female and one fish gets isolated and beaten up and if you don't remove that fish it will eventually be killed. They're a popular fish and easy to trade away to stores.
> 
> The fish will rear several generations of young. The 'teenage' fish will assist in taking care of their younger brothers and sisters. If you keep the numbers reasonable by selling some off now and then you can keep a colony of them going happily.
> 
> ...


 the tank looks like a bother. I'd have to completely remove all my substrate and plants and then throw in some crushed coral for pH and add a few rocks in. How much do these fish generally sell for?


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## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

Joeee said:


> the tank looks like a bother. I'd have to completely remove all my substrate and plants and then throw in some crushed coral for pH and add a few rocks in. How much do these fish generally sell for?


You don't have to pull out your substrate or plants. You just probably won't have long term plant success with a bunch of brichardi.

You can probably get a bunch of young ones from somebody for $3 each or so if you go on PN and ask


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## Joeee (Apr 3, 2010)

AquariAM said:


> You don't have to pull out your substrate or plants. You just probably won't have long term plant success with a bunch of brichardi.
> 
> You can probably get a bunch of young ones from somebody for $3 each or so if you go on PN and ask


I just saw Philip.Chan's saulosi post. XD

I don't know which one I want. A mouthbrooder or one that takes care of their fry. If I make it a species only tank, how many brichardi or Saulosis can I fit into it?

I'll call in to Finatics tomorrow or the day after to find out if they have any of them in stocks.


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## Joeee (Apr 3, 2010)

I just found pictures of:

Lamprologus multifasciatus

Does anyone have any experience with these?


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## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

It's a shell dweller. They're very small, and require soft sandy substrate and shells. They're interesting if that's your thing.
If you definitely want to do an african cichlid tank go on www.cichlid-forum.com they can help you find the ideal fish.


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## Philip.Chan.92 (Apr 25, 2010)

Joeee said:


> I just saw Philip.Chan's saulosi post. XD
> 
> I don't know which one I want. A mouthbrooder or one that takes care of their fry. If I make it a species only tank, how many brichardi or Saulosis can I fit into it?
> 
> I'll call in to Finatics tomorrow or the day after to find out if they have any of them in stocks.


I am stocking 1m8f so you can most likely have a few more females, no more males though or they need around 50 gallon. The guy is selling 8 for $40 and free male or female so 9 for $40


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## Joeee (Apr 3, 2010)

Philip.Chan.92 said:


> I am stocking 1m8f so you can most likely have a few more females, no more males though or they need around 50 gallon. The guy is selling 8 for $40 and free male or female so 9 for $40


Can you tell me a bit about these? I unfortunately can't do too much research until tomorrow when my exams are over. ;[


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## TBemba (Jan 11, 2010)

I recommend shellies, too bad you are not closer to me I could sell you some Neolamprologus multifasciatus

I have had a colony in a 20 gallon tank for over 3 years and they continually breed and multiple generations can me kept in the same tank.

You could also get some Neolamprologus leleupi,(Lemon Cichlid)

Julidochromis ornatus are cool as well or Julidochromis transcriptus


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## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

Yup. Tonnes of stuff. Those Tanganyikans would all be awesome. IMO Brichardi are much hardier than leleupi and julidochromis in that order but not a whole lot. Anybody with a bit of experience can handle any of the fish suggested no problem IMO.

How big is this tank? Is it 3x1 foot? How tall? You might be able to manage a 2 species tanganyikan tank. Maybe even 3...

Going in with Phil on Saulosi would be great too. 

I think most fish are pretty great and have some kind of merit so I can't really suggest one over the other. They all have + and -, some are hardier, some more aggressive, some more specialized feeders, some have more interesting mating behaviour, etc.


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## Darkside (Sep 14, 2009)

I've had julies breed in a bucket on the deck. Can't go wrong with them!


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## bae (May 11, 2007)

Many mbuna are serious herbivores and will regard your tank as a salad bar. I don't know how herbivorous saulosi are, but check into it if you want to keep your plants.

Leleupi aren't colonial like brichardi and julies, so it's hard to keep more than a pair in a tank the size of yours. 

I'd go with a pair of kribs (Pelvicachromis pulcher). They are easy to breed and it's not hard to get stores to take fry. You can keep some surface oriented fish like gouramis with them, as well as some midwater fish like tetras. All these fish like planted tanks. Kribs have elaborate courtship and parental care behaviour which is very interesting to watch. Julies and brichardis mostly guard their caves and let the fry look after themselves.


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## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

bae said:


> Many mbuna are serious herbivores and will regard your tank as a salad bar. I don't know how herbivorous saulosi are, but check into it if you want to keep your plants.
> 
> Leleupi aren't colonial like brichardi and julies, so it's hard to keep more than a pair in a tank the size of yours.
> 
> I'd go with a pair of kribs (Pelvicachromis pulcher). They are easy to breed and it's not hard to get stores to take fry. You can keep some surface oriented fish like gouramis with them, as well as some midwater fish like tetras. All these fish like planted tanks. Kribs have elaborate courtship and parental care behaviour which is very interesting to watch. Julies and brichardis mostly guard their caves and let the fry look after themselves.


They aren't worth anything.

You can get $8/fish from BA's off Leleupi @ 1.5"
Brichardi are similar.

Kribs you'll get maybe a dollar.


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## Joeee (Apr 3, 2010)

Question - How do I pronounce saulosi?

Like Saw-low-see?

I'm also planning on getting rid of those plants.


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## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

Joeee said:


> Question - How do I pronounce saulosi?
> 
> Like Saw-low-see?
> 
> I'm also planning on getting rid of those plants.


Sa-oo-low-s-eye


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## bae (May 11, 2007)

AquariAM said:


> They aren't worth anything.
> 
> You can get $8/fish from BA's off Leleupi @ 1.5"
> Brichardi are similar.
> ...


Kribs are more prolific and grow much faster. But the point is that they are an easy to breed fish that is very interesting to watch, which was teh OP's objective.


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## bae (May 11, 2007)

Joeee said:


> Question - How do I pronounce saulosi?
> 
> Like Saw-low-see?
> 
> I'm also planning on getting rid of those plants.


The fish was named after one of Stuart Grant's employees, whose first name was Saulos, the Malawian form of the biblical name Saul. So your pronunciation is good.

Even herbivorous mbuna will generally not eat java fern or java moss, and hornwort, if they eat it at all, not as fast as it grows. I strongly recommend floating hornwort for a mbuna tank since it does so much for water quality.


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## Joeee (Apr 3, 2010)

Because of space restraints, my tank has to be infront of a window and therefore direct sunlight. What type of algae eater would do well in a tank with a high pH? Like 7.5-8.2ish pH. I was thinknig about a pleco but they all seem to grow too big.


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## TBemba (Jan 11, 2010)

Netrite snails


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## bae (May 11, 2007)

Apple snails. Most snails prefer hard water -- otherwise their shells deteriorate.


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## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

Joeee said:


> Because of space restraints, my tank has to be infront of a window and therefore direct sunlight. What type of algae eater would do well in a tank with a high pH? Like 7.5-8.2ish pH. I was thinknig about a pleco but they all seem to grow too big.


If you put a pleco or any kind of snail with 99% of rift lake cichlids you'll end up with a shreded pleco and shreded snails. It is not ethical.

You may be stuck with 'spongus spongus' or 'creditcardus scrapus' as an algae eater.


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## TBemba (Jan 11, 2010)

you can have issues with plecos and snails with some rift lake cichlids but alot of people have had success with both plecos and snails. I had a Giant apple snail in with 5 inch clowns and tropheus and BN plecos for over 3 years no issues. I also have the same clown loaches eating ramshorn snails. I have over 6 Nerite snails in with them and they don`t seem to bother them. 

I have a colony of Multis the smallest cichlid in the world and they will kill any pleco that entered their tank and move ramshorn snails around by picking them up.

So depending on many variables some times it will work and other times no.


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## PACMAN (Mar 4, 2010)

AquariAM said:


> You may be stuck with 'spongus spongus' or 'creditcardus scrapus' as an algae eater.


haha i never heard of a creditcardus scrapus before. I think im going to have to find and use one of those!


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## Darkside (Sep 14, 2009)

AquariAM said:


> If you put a pleco or any kind of snail with 99% of rift lake cichlids you'll end up with a shreded pleco and shreded snails. It is not ethical.
> 
> You may be stuck with 'spongus spongus' or 'creditcardus scrapus' as an algae eater.


This is a gross over-generalization. I keep BN plecos with 100% of my Tanganyikan cichlids and they have always done very well. They breed continually and have intact fins and good colour. Plecos don't do as well with fish from Malawi but my Vics have always left my plecos alone. Some fish do better with plecos than others, fish that are extremely aggressive substrate spawners will give a pleco more issues (but this is expected because they will do this with all other fish). Aside from my Telmatochromis temporalis and my old Lepidiolamprologus boulengeri most of my fish ignore snails completely. I will have a L. similis take out a snail on occaision and I've seen julies pick at them, but snails are usually pretty safe in African tanks.


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## bae (May 11, 2007)

I agree with Darkside. I've had MTS and nerites in with Lab. caeruleus and Cynotilapia with no problems. Ramshorns do okay, but don't multiply -- the fish eat the tiny ones. Ditto for assassin snails. I've got a couple of happy bushynose plecos in there too. Granted, these are two of the least aggressive mbuna spp, but labs are micropredators that eat a lot of snails in nature. They ignore any snails they can't conveniently make one small bite of. 

I've got ramshorns and apple snails in with (Neo)lamp. ornatipinnis and they are flourishing. The fish don't eat the ramshorns unless I crush them for them. They ignore all those long thrashing antennae and juicy snorkels on the apple snails.

I've got ramshorns and MTS in with julies, and they seem to have reached some kind of equilibrium -- the snail numbers stay about the same over the years.


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## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

Darkside said:


> *This is a gross over-generalization*. I keep BN plecos with 100% of my Tanganyikan cichlids and they have always done very well. They breed continually and have intact fins and good colour. Plecos don't do as well with fish from Malawi but my Vics have always left my plecos alone. Some fish do better with plecos than others, fish that are extremely aggressive substrate spawners will give a pleco more issues (but this is expected because they will do this with all other fish). Aside from my Telmatochromis temporalis and my old Lepidiolamprologus boulengeri most of my fish ignore snails completely. I will have a L. similis take out a snail on occaision and I've seen julies pick at them, but snails are usually pretty safe in African tanks.


That's the idea.

Gross overgeneralization. It's much smarter to say 'don't do X' than take an hour to list all the situations where there is an exception. There are tonnes of things that can be kept with BN plecos. Cyprichromis, Paracyprichromis, lots of kinds of Tropheus, etc etc. But what if the guy with a cyprichromis tank decides he wants to add a brichardi colony?

What if the guy with five peaceful female yellow labs and a BN pleco in a nice mellow tank adds a demasoni colony and forgets to mention that he has a BN pleco. It's putting an achilles heal on the tank IMO.


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## Darkside (Sep 14, 2009)

AquariAM said:


> That's the idea.
> 
> Gross overgeneralization. It's much smarter to say 'don't do X' than take an hour to list all the situations where there is an exception. There are tonnes of things that can be kept with BN plecos. Cyprichromis, Paracyprichromis, lots of kinds of Tropheus, etc etc. But what if the guy with a cyprichromis tank decides he wants to add a brichardi colony?
> 
> What if the guy with five peaceful female yellow labs and a BN pleco in a nice mellow tank adds a demasoni colony and forgets to mention that he has a BN pleco. It's putting an achilles heal on the tank IMO.


Its incorrect information and I feel that its a waste of time.


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## TBemba (Jan 11, 2010)

AquariAM said:


> That's the idea.
> 
> Gross overgeneralization. It's much smarter to say 'don't do X' than take an hour to list all the situations where there is an exception. There are tonnes of things that can be kept with BN plecos. Cyprichromis, Paracyprichromis, lots of kinds of Tropheus, etc etc. But what if the guy with a cyprichromis tank decides he wants to add a brichardi colony?
> 
> What if the guy with five peaceful female yellow labs and a BN pleco in a nice mellow tank adds a demasoni colony and forgets to mention that he has a BN pleco. It's putting an achilles heal on the tank IMO.


+1

I agree with everything you said. But ....
Every situation is different. If you have the pleco established and enough hiding places then most plecos will be fine.

If you have the same established tank with African`s and then add a pleco you may have an issue.

Most plecos are nocturnal this allows them to survive an aggressive tank. Feeding also has something to do with it as well. Remember you have to feed the tank after lights out with plecos and even a good idea for snails. This will help the survival as the pleco will learn not to come out during lights on.

Other thing is size of fish or pleco. Fish large pleco small (could be dangerous)
Large pleco small fish (should be ok )

Sometimes even a fish that will attack a pleco like a Oscar or a Jaguar will leave a pleco alone if they grew up with one. Sometimes when a fish reaches maturity they will all of a sudden a get super aggressive and kill a pleco or snails.

But I agree soo many variables but I would say 50- 50 that adding a pleco could be trouble and you usually find out quickly if the pleco will not work.

Watch your fish and their behaviour, have fish requirements met, remove fish if there is too much aggression. Best to add fish with lights out and leave like that for a day. Sometimes best to rearrange tank decor before add cichlids. Changes up territory all fish feel like they are new to the tank and have to re establish territory less aggression.

Just my experience


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## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

* Remember you have to feed the tank after lights out with plecos and even a good idea for snails. This will help the survival as the pleco will learn not to come out during lights on.
*

+1

Humorously though, I have a 3" BN female that will bodycheck a group of similar sized sajica out of the way during the day for food and has no fear of anything and never hides. She runs the tank.


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