# Sticky  EI fertilization: Ontario adapted, all in grams



## kaegunim

This is just a "note to self" about the Estimative Index fertilization system http://www.barrreport.com/showthread.php/62-The-Estimative-Index-of-Dosing-or-No-Need-for-Test-Kits adapted slightly for our hard water (that doesn't need gH booster, but still needs sulphates).

The most important part is that it is all adapted to make a liquid fertilizer concentrate (though it remains fairly dilute) with measurements in SI (because all this tsp buisness really bothers me) to allow easy and accurate dosing with a 5mL syringe (or graduated cylinder, or peristaltic pump etc...). Most of this info was taken from Tom Barr's site, this is just to make it easy for me who does not want to use tsp measures!

*Adapting EI for (already) hard water:* How much sulfate to add?

This was not straightforward and easy to find, though the information was available...

I still wanted to add some sulfate, which would otherwise have been added in the GH booster. However, I really felt no need to buy any magnesium sulfate or calcium sulfate, when the water from my tap is already full of them.

Barr GH booster is a 3:3:1 mix w/w of CaSO4, K2SO4 and MgSO4. The recommended dose for a 75L tank would be 1/32 tsp (=_= oh, why tsp measures). I am not bothering to take into account the sulfate contributions of the magnesium sulfate and calcium sulfate, reasoning that there will be some contribution from the tap water, and that this should still be ample sulfate (this is still the ESTIMATIVE Index, I suppose). Given that 3/7 of the Barr GH booster is K2SO4, it is roughly half of 1/32 tsp of K2SO4, or 0.175g. This translates to 3 0.0583g doses.

*EI Dosing:*

The premise is to dose everything in excess and use a weekly 50% water change to keep levels from building up past 2X the desired concentrations. Macronutrients and micronutrients are dosed on alternating days for the first 6 days. Day 7 sees you doing a 50% water change (and add gH booster is you live in an area with soft water - this does not apply to us here in London, or the GTA).

All numbers are for a 75L (20 gallon) tank. Keep the numbers proportional and they will work for any size.

*Macronutrients:*

Salt Daily dose (g) Weekly dose (g) K+ (ppm) Anion (ppm)
KNO3 0.650 0.650 x 3 = 1.95 9.97 15.79
KH2PO4 0.175 0.175 x 3 = 0.525 2.00 4.84
K2SO4 0.0583 0.0583 x 3 = 0.175 0.597 0.736
Total K+ 12.6

*Micronutrients:*

Using CSM+B, whose recomended dose is 1/32tsp 3x per week, this works out to 0.134g per dose (1/32tsp)

With 50% weekly water changes, the concentration range of each compound will range from approximately the weekly dose immediately after the water change to 2x the dose at the end of the week just before changing the water.

*Stock solutions:*

I am using 5mL/dose as a volume that is large enough to be accurately measured, but small enough as not to be too bulky (1L will last for over a year for a 75L tank). These solutions are not very concentrated. If you want to keep using 5mL/dose for a larger tank, just multiply the salt weights appropriately, while keeping the volume the same. At some point the salts will not go into solution. If this happens, just double the volume and dose 10mL.

For a 1L stock of convenient 5mL doses:

Dividing the daily dose (in g) by 5mL will give us the target concentration: Multiplying this concentration by the target volume (in mL) will give us the weight of the salt required for the stock)

Macronutrient mix:

KNO3 0.650g/5mL =	0.130g/mL x 1000mL = 130g
KH2PO4	0.175g/5mL = 0.0350g/mL x 1000mL = 35g
K2SO4 0.0583g/5mL =	0.01166g/mL x 1000mL =11.66g

Dissolve in ~700mL distilled H20 (you might get some precipitation if you use tap water). I would use a 1L beaker and a magnetic stir bar, but a CLEAN CLEAN 2L pop bottle and inversion should work just fine, likewise an ice cream pail and stirring with a spoon should be fine too.

Once everything is dissolved, pour the solution into a graduated cylinder and bring the volume up to 1000mL with more dH2O

Micronutrient mix:

CSM+B 0.134g/5mL = 0.0268g/mL x 1000mL = 26.8g

In this case, acidify your water BEFORE adding the CSM+B trace mix. I followed a suggestion from a forum posting to use 5mL of HCl (12N) per litre to inhibit mould and fungal growth (though I have heard that mouldy micronutrient mix doses just as well~).

The rest is the same as for the macronutrients, just be careful. I doubt that 0.5% HCl will give a contact burn, but it plays to be safe, and I am positive that the iron in the CSM+B WILL stain clothes~

To recap: 
Just make 1L each of the macronutrient mix and the micronutrient mix. Dosing 5ml/ day on alternating days 3 times per week will give you 66 weeks of fertilizer for a 75L tank!


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## Darkblade48

Good work, Patrick. You put everything I told you into print 



kaegunim said:


> In this case, acidify your water BEFORE adding the CSM+B trace mix. I followed a suggestion from a forum posting to use 5mL of HCl *(12N)* per litre to inhibit mould and fungal growth (though I have heard that mouldy micronutrient mix doses just as well~).


I believe I mentioned the standard HCl concentration you can get is 10M, not 12 normal (N).



kaegunim said:


> The rest is the same as for the macronutrients, just be careful. I doubt that 0.5% HCl will give a contact burn, but it plays to be safe, and I am positive that the iron in the CSM+B WILL stain clothes~


Iron stains can be removed through complex formation with citric, ascorbic and/or oxalic salts.


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## kaegunim

If you had made such a nicely laid out recipe (or had provided a link to a precise-enough and non-tsp requiring explanation) this would not have been necessary~

And I would still suggest avoiding getting the trace mix on your clothes

Long live the digital scale! Down with volumetric measurement of solids! ^o^


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## Darkblade48

kaegunim said:


> If you had made such a nicely laid out recipe (or had provided a link to a precise-enough and non-tsp requiring explanation) this would not have been necessary~


Tom Barr has a sticky in his forums that can be found here:

http://www.barrreport.com/showthread.php/3209-Want-more-accuracy-Want-daily-PMDD-style-EI-dosing

He also has several links to other methods of dosing in the way you have described.


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## igor.kanshyn

kaegunim said:


> ........................
> Given that 3/7 of the Barr GH booster is K2SO4, it is roughly half of 1/32 tsp of K2SO4, or 0.1g.
> ........................


It's a very good calculation. Thank you for sharing.

I have a question. How do you recalculate 1/32 tsp into 0.1 gram?
One US tea spoon is 4.9 gr of water. That will give us 0.15 gram of water
At the same time, that dry fertilization powder seems to be heavier than water.

In order to make a mix, it's better to use volume rather that weight, but I'm still interesting in getting correct numbers


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## Darkblade48

igor.kanshyn said:


> I have a question. How do you recalculate 1/32 tsp into 0.1 gram?


You will need to find the density of the potassium dihydrogen phosphate to convert from a volume measurement to a mass measurement.



igor.kanshyn said:


> One US tea spoon is 4.9 gr of water. That will give us 0.15 gram of water
> At the same time, that dry fertilization powder seems to be heavier than water.


I believe the calculation was incorrectly done. I took a quick look at the APC fertilator, and it is reporting that the equivalent in terms of mass is 0.175g and not 0.1 g.



igor.kanshyn said:


> In order to make a mix, it's better to use volume rather that weight, but I'm still interesting in getting correct numbers


Actually, using the mass is always more accurate than measuring the volume. 1 teaspoon of (one kind of) potassium nitrate may be different from 1 teaspoon of (another kind of) potassium nitrate.


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## igor.kanshyn

I've found Dosing Dry Fertilizers in the Planted Tank article.

Based on it 
1 tbs of KN03 is 5.6 grams
1 tbs of KH2PO4 is 4.8 grams
Your right, they have different density.

I said that volume was easier, because original EI operates tbs as unit of measurement, it's volume. After a liquid mix is created, you will add it into a tank by volume, not by weight. Using grams on some stage of mixing just adds more measurement uncertainty.


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## Darkblade48

Tom Barr originally created EI to not need to be mixed with liquid, although there is the possibility of using EI dosing while keeping the PMDD style of dosing.


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## Zebrapl3co

Hmm ... this is good. Not sure how I miss this ... gonna make it a sticky...

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## igor.kanshyn

Darkblade48 said:


> Tom Barr originally created EI to not need to be mixed with liquid, although there is the possibility of using EI dosing while keeping the PMDD style of dosing.


BTW, do this liquid mix have a precipitation (deposit)? If yes, it will be not convenient to add to a tank.


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## Darkblade48

igor.kanshyn said:


> BTW, do this liquid mix have a precipitation (deposit)? If yes, it will be not convenient to add to a tank.


If you keep the phosphates away from the trace mix, there should be no precipitate that forms.

I have found, however, that CSM+B does mould easily when kept in solution, however. A little hydrochloric acid or Flourish Excel will prevent this, however.


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## igor.kanshyn

Darkblade48 said:


> If you keep the phosphates away from the trace mix, there should be no precipitate that forms.
> 
> I have found, however, that CSM+B does mould easily when kept in solution, however. A little hydrochloric acid or Flourish Excel will prevent this, however.


Thank you.


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## shadow_cruiser

Darkblade48 said:


> If you keep the phosphates away from the trace mix, there should be no precipitate that forms.
> 
> I have found, however, that CSM+B does mould easily when kept in solution, however. A little hydrochloric acid or Flourish Excel will prevent this, however.


I've found that it only moulds in a clear container placed near sunlight. I switched to a black container and placed it in a cupboard and it's been fine for about 3 months.

Should this stuff be kept in the fridge?. I read somewhere people do this.


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## Darkblade48

Keeping it in the fridge is another method to slow down the growth of mould.


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## Jsu

I have a 10 gal and i dont have a digital scale. Can someone calculate how many table spoon of each of the macro fert i need to make a 1 L solution for a 10 gal heavily planted tank.

Thank you


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## igor.kanshyn

I can tell you how to recalculate grams in teaspoons for different salts.
You can even do it yourself based on numbers from the page.


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## Darkblade48

There are also various calculators that will do that sort of calculation for you.


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## Jsu

Where can i find this calculator?


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## Darkblade48

Not to sound angry, but have you tried searching? A search for "aquarium fertilizer calculator" yields multiple results.


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## Jsu

Sorry. I thought you might have a legit site on hand.

Heres what i found http://www.bestaquariumregulator.com/dosing.html.


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## igor.kanshyn

Jsu said:


> Sorry. I thought you might have a legit site on hand.
> 
> Heres what i found http://www.bestaquariumregulator.com/dosing.html.


Yes, it's a cool page.

BTW, you can find a link to it several posts above


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## Darkblade48

Rex Grigg's website is not so much a calculator as it is a reference table.

The Fertilator is a good one. Chuck Gadd's calculator is also quite good.


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## kaegunim

Darkblade48 said:


> I believe the calculation was incorrectly done. I took a quick look at the APC fertilator, and it is reporting that the equivalent in terms of mass is 0.175g and not 0.1 g.


I will admit that this is my bad. I am not sure if it is due to where I got the density from, or (more likely) a transcriptional error on my part. You will have to forgive me (and you saw the ratty scrap of paper I worked these out on >_>)

I have now corrected the aberrent density, and made corrections to all of the calculations deriving from this initial error. I should like to defend the original recipe at this time though, by saying that with Ontario water being as hard as it is, there is more than enough sulfate in the water to make dosing sulfate unnecessary! Even with the reduced amount of potassium added as a result of dosing less K2SO4, the potassium levels would still be above the minimum required levels for EI.

It is entirely possible that I took this into account while working out the original numbers, but forgot to include the reasoning. (Aside: DB48 - can you recall if I got into a solubilization issue with the K2SO4 requiring lowering its concentration in the mix???)

I also see that quite a discussion has come up on the issue of making a master mix and dosing by volume! Surprising, since this was originally just a private note to self~

At any rate, I don't mean to discourage those who like to measure out 3 or more dry salts daily and dissolve them before adding, rather than make a single easy and accurate liquid measurement from a pre-solubilized stock... (actually I do mean to discourage it... since it sounds like a lot of unecesary work to me, in an age where you can get a digital scale for 10$ from a certain extreme dealing site....)


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## Darkblade48

Patrick, so you're alive? Some certain people have been trying to contact you for the last few weeks.

I don't think there is any solubility issue with the potassium sulfate...


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## Big Jim

I originally tried pps pro and the first batch I mixed up gave me awesome results. Pearling from every single plant daily for months. I mixed up a second batch and within a few weeks my plants had all kinds of deficiencies.
I decided to try the EI method after reading this thread. The results were better than my second batch of pps pro, but still no pearling.
Since then I've sort of gone the hybrid route and get pearling daily again.
Instead of dosing say 1/8tsp every other day I now dose 1/16 daily. Same with the micros 2.5ml daily instead of 5ml every other day. Do my 50% waterchange and my plants are very happy again.


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## archgop

igor.kanshyn said:


> I've found Dosing Dry Fertilizers in the Planted Tank article.
> 
> Based on it
> 1 tbs of KN03 is 5.6 grams
> 1 tbs of KH2PO4 is 4.8 grams
> Your right, they have different density.
> 
> I said that volume was easier, because original EI operates tbs as unit of measurement, it's volume. After a liquid mix is created, you will add it into a tank by volume, not by weight. Using grams on some stage of mixing just adds more measurement uncertainty.


Are these conversions correct? Thanks


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## Darkblade48

archgop said:


> Are these conversions correct? Thanks


It depends on what form the chemicals are in. Especially for the case of KNO3, it can either come in prill form or powdered form, and each would have a slightly different density.


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## archgop

Darkblade48 said:


> If you keep the phosphates away from the trace mix, there should be no precipitate that forms.
> 
> I have found, however, that CSM+B does mould easily when kept in solution, however. A little hydrochloric acid or Flourish Excel will prevent this, however.


Around how much (ml or tsp) of Excel should be added to the 1L solution of Macronutrient? 
Thanks


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## Jsu

Can i mix excel with Macro or micro nutrient?


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## Xenopus

This is a great topic, but apparently I could have paid better attention to both Math and Chemistry.

I want to make a concentrated macronutrient solution. Using nutrient calculator at http://calc.petalphile.com/en/ (EI, 75G, diy, solution 1000 mL, each dose 50 mL) turned out KNO3 69.437 g, KH2PO4 10.577 g and K2SO4 94.902 g.

Where I get lost is why Kaegunim suggests a solution comprised of 130 g, 35 g, and 11.66 g respectively, and aside from 5 mL/50 mL dosing, why is my ratio so different?

Some oversight from those in the know would be much appreciated.


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## Darkblade48

Xenopus said:


> This is a great topic, but apparently I could have paid better attention to both Math and Chemistry.
> 
> I want to make a concentrated macronutrient solution. Using nutrient calculator at http://calc.petalphile.com/en/ (EI, 75G, diy, solution 1000 mL, each dose 50 mL) turned out KNO3 69.437 g, KH2PO4 10.577 g and K2SO4 94.902 g.
> 
> Where I get lost is why Kaegunim suggests a solution comprised of 130 g, 35 g, and 11.66 g respectively, and aside from 5 mL/50 mL dosing, why is my ratio so different?
> 
> Some oversight from those in the know would be much appreciated.


I doubt Patrick is still active on these forums, but perhaps I can shed some light...

I am not sure how the linked calculator works (i.e. what it is using as reference data), and I am not sure where Patrick got his data from as well.

However, the original EI recipe, according to Tom Barr, appears as follows:



> 60 - 80 Gallon Aquariums
> +/- 3/4 tsp KN03 3x a week
> +/- 3/16 tsp KH2P04 3x a week
> +/- 1 tsp once a week (water change only)
> +/- ¼ tsp (15ml) Trace 3x a week
> 50% weekly water change


If you want to dose liquid, you can figure it out from here.

Density of (pure) KNO3 is 2.109 grams/cubic centimetre.

Thus, we are adding 7.91 grams of KNO3 per dose.

You have 1000 mL/50 mL = 20 doses in your 1 L bottle, thus, you require 158.2 grams of KNO3.

Similar calculations can be made for the other chemicals.


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## Xenopus

Thanks Anthony. I've decided to delay mixing a solution temporarily while I experiment with dry dosages for a few weeks.

Also wanted to express my appreciation for CO2 primer. It was very helpful in getting me to this point!


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## jpessa

Sorry to be a noob, but where do you buy these dry chemicals??? 

I've also read that KNO3 is a banned substance???
Thanks!


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## Darkblade48

jpessa said:


> Sorry to be a noob, but where do you buy these dry chemicals???
> 
> I've also read that KNO3 is a banned substance???
> Thanks!


I sell fertilizers.

http://gtaaquaria.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41075

KNO3 is not banned per se, but above certain amounts, will require that you provide identification that will be kept on record.


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## xriddler

Sorry to be an extra noob but on the original post there are three ferts for the macro. Has K2SO4 been removed and no longer needed?


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## Darkblade48

xriddler said:


> Sorry to be an extra noob but on the original post there are three ferts for the macro. Has K2SO4 been removed and no longer needed?


Strict EI consists of only potassium nitrate and potassium phosphate (for the macronutrients).

Potassium sulfate is part of the GH booster, though Toronto water is hard enough that it does not need to be used.

You can dose potassium sulfate on its own, however, if you feel that your plants are potassium deficient (though this probably won't occur if you are following EI dosing).


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## max88

Paging *Darkblade48*. Do you still have all these for sale?

http://gtaaquaria.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41075



kaegunim said:


> Macronutrient mix:
> 
> KNO3 0.650g/5mL =	0.130g/mL x 1000mL = 130g
> KH2PO4	0.175g/5mL = 0.0350g/mL x 1000mL = 35g
> K2SO4 0.0583g/5mL =	0.01166g/mL x 1000mL =11.66g
> 
> Micronutrient mix:
> 
> CSM+B 0.134g/5mL = 0.0268g/mL x 1000mL = 26.8g


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