# Cleaning Canister Filters



## Steeners (Mar 28, 2010)

I know this is a newbie question and that is why I am posting here.

I have a Rena XP3 Canister on my 55g. I did maintenance on it about a month ago, cleaned the filter floss and coarse/fine pads in a bucket of good old fish water! I replaced one of the floss pads and put it all back together doing my best to keep it in the water. I emptied the water that was in the canister and filled it up with tank water and then did a 30% water change on the tank itself. Everything is good, water is clean, water parameters are good etc etc.

How often should I be doing this? and what should I be replacing if anything?

The canister is setup with filter floss at the top, middle container has ceramic rings/black bio rings, and bottom has coarse and fine filter pads.

One more thing, the intake and outake tubes are getting really dirty (black spots), should I be doing anything with that too or just leave it? I'm assuming that is all the good bacteria? I also added a sponge filter to the tank because I want to be able to setup another tank quickly for my rainbows when I but them. Not a related question but would they be okay in a 10g temporarily? I really don't want to disease my 55g tank just in case they are sick. How long do I quarantine them for? I heard 3 weeks?

Thank you!


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## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

Why would you put a fine filter pad at the bottom? Makes more sense to have it at the top IMO.

Personally, I don't believe in 'fine' filter materials. There's nothing wrong with having a little bit of particulate in your tank. If the water is totally clear across say four or five feet (looking from one side to the other) then that's fantastic. I do not use or suggest the use of 'super fine' filtration like floss or fine pads because it isn't necessary. In a well established tank you don't need anything finer than standard pore size reticulated foam (ie, aquaclear sponge or foam pad for XP). That puts any free floating particle within a small enough fraction of a mm of thousands of surfaces coated with bacteria in your filter. If it can be processed by the filter, it will be. Anything else, like little tiny worms or copepods will be returned to the aquarium. Fine filter pads and floss also force you to do more frequent aquarium maintenance, as they clog quickly due to the extremely fine spaces they allow water to flow through- in other words- they work as advertised and get dirty fast.

In a canister filter set up for biological filtration as yours is, I would personally not use any fine filtration, and have some sort of mechanical filter, ie foam, then your biomedia, then another piece of foam. That's all you need. Clean out both the pieces of foam (in tank water in a bucket) every time you service the filter and rinse (in a bucket of tank water not tap water) 1/3 of the biological media. Depending on your setup and load etc etc you MAY have to do this every 3 or 4 months but that's highly unlikely. In most situations if you set it up properly and you have some kind of supplemental filtration like a hang on back filter 6 months is more than adequate.


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## BillD (Jun 5, 2006)

Keep in mind that anything in the filter is still in your tank. I can't imagine leaving a filter for 6 months (yes I know many do it). When I used a cannister, I cleaned it monthly or even more often. Never did I open it to find it didn't need cleaning. The tubing gets mucked up, and that I clean with a bamboo garden stake used as a ramrod to push a piece of J-Cloth through the tube. So, essentially, you will gauge by use how often your particular filter needs maintenance, in your application. To arbitrarily say a filter can go x months without cleaning is bad advice; every tank setup is unique.


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## TBemba (Jan 11, 2010)

Steeners said:


> I know this is a newbie question and that is why I am posting here.
> 
> I have a Rena XP3 Canister on my 55g. I did maintenance on it about a month ago, cleaned the filter floss and coarse/fine pads in a bucket of good old fish water! I replaced one of the floss pads and put it all back together doing my best to keep it in the water. I emptied the water that was in the canister and filled it up with tank water and then did a 30% water change on the tank itself. Everything is good, water is clean, water parameters are good etc etc.
> 
> ...


I like to clean canister filters every month maybe 2 months.
sounds like you are cleaning it properly and the only thing that needs to be replaced is the filter floss. Only Media that you have to worry about changing is stuff like Carbon. Sponges and rings only need a good rinse.
You can clean the filter intake and outtake by getting a test tube cleaner or just running hot water through it to get some of the gunk out when your cleaning the canister. Don't worry too much about the hoses they are almost impossible to keep clean.
I like the idea of running a sponge filter in your tank at all times it is perfect for what you are planing to do (add a second tank). Not a lot of people quarantine fish but it is a great idea. I would think 3 weeks is plenty of time to see if they have any issues but few people can or will wait that long. I would say if you buy new fish and they are eating well and healthy looking a week should be ok.

Good luck with your new hobby,


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## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

TBemba said:


> I like to clean canister filters every month maybe 2 months.


This is counter productive.


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## BillD (Jun 5, 2006)

AquariAM said:


> This is counter productive.


How is this counter productive?


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## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

Big volume. There's little need to clean most canisters every 3 months let alone every 1 if you set them up properly. You want bacteria in there. Why kill some of them monthly? You clean it when it gets significantly reduced flow, which should be more than three months. If you're doing it more than once every three you're doing something wrong or unnecessary.. like using a lot of fine filter material or carbon in there. Canisters are hard to open and service vs HOBS. They should be set up in a way that you only have to do it about every 3 months and if you use, for instance, eheims suggested layout for a 22XX minus the fine pad and carbon you can go four months+ on 99% of setups between cleanings.


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

AquariAM said:


> Big volume. There's little need to clean most canisters every 3 months let alone every 1 if you set them up properly. You want bacteria in there. Why kill some of them monthly? You clean it when it gets significantly reduced flow, which should be more than three months. If you're doing it more than once every three you're doing something wrong or unnecessary.. like using a lot of fine filter material or carbon in there. Canisters are hard to open and service vs HOBS. They should be set up in a way that you only have to do it about every 3 months and if you use, for instance, eheims suggested layout for a 22XX minus the fine pad and carbon you can go four months+ on 99% of setups between cleanings.


People often underestimate bacteria. A small colony of 1000 bacteria can grow out to many millions overnight given favorable conditions. By cleaning the filter, yes you remove bacteria, but you also remove the source of rotting organics, which the bacteria process into nitrates eventually. So remove the problem and you don't need the solution. Also, a little bacterial die off is no biggie. They'll be back.

Also, no matter how well set up they are, sometimes they just need to be cleaned. My folks have a 75g with two 2217s - I clean one every month or more, and it needs it.

And fine filter material? I use it in all my canisters. Given that the order the OP has it in makes no sense (bottom up, I'd do coarse sponge, biomedia, fine sponge, filter floss). I have it in there as it does a great job catching all those teeny tiny particles that float around irritating me (not the fish).

And canisters, while no cakewalk to clean, aren't that hard either. Takes me about 5 minutes on any Eheim classic.


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

I agree that a filter used for biological filtration only "needs" to be cleaned when you notice a reduction in flow.

However, getting into the habit of cleaning your canister filter monthly is a great idea, as long as you do it properly. I want to stress properly (and it sounds like you do so already!). Just ensure anything in the filter is cleaned with aquarium water, not tap water.

Any loss of beneficial bacteria due to that is quite minimal and is easily replenished.

As Bill mentioned, some canister filters can go a long time without being cleaned. I had an eheim 2217 I let go for close to 8 months before cleaning it. I swear though, I could clean the thing out and open it up the next day and it looks almost as dirty!

To conclude, I guess the best thing to do would be to get into the habit of cleaning it bi-monthly or somewhere around there. Just do it properly!


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## BillD (Jun 5, 2006)

Cleaning the filter with tank water will not kill the bacteria or remove them from the media, even if done vigorously. It will remove solids the nitrifying bacteria do not consume. A clean filter works more efficiently (biologically) than a dirty one. Nitrifying bacteria are aerobic so allowing the filter media to plug up possibly creating anaerobic areas is hardly conducive to maintaining bacteria. In addition lots of solids mean the nitrifying bacteria has to compete for oxygen with the bacteria that do consume the solids and which are also aerobic. Regardless, leaving solids to build up in your tank for three or more months is not good practice.


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

BillD said:


> Regardless, leaving solids to build up in your tank for three or more months is not good practice.


But I do it anyways...


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## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

BillD said:


> Cleaning the filter with tank water will not kill the bacteria or remove them from the media, even if done vigorously. It will remove solids the nitrifying bacteria do not consume. A clean filter works more efficiently (biologically) than a dirty one. Nitrifying bacteria are aerobic so allowing the filter media to plug up possibly creating anaerobic areas is hardly conducive to maintaining bacteria. In addition lots of solids mean the nitrifying bacteria has to compete for oxygen with the bacteria that do consume the solids and which are also aerobic. Regardless, leaving solids to build up in your tank for three or more months is not good practice.


The bacteria are on those solids. Rinsing the media in tank water will remove a significant amount of bacteria. Nitrifying bacteria are most prevelant on the top layer of whatever material they live on.


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

But without the excess organics to break down, which require nitrifying bacteria, you don't need all the bacteria.

That, and bacteria grow fast. Especially if they have abundant food. You could probably get away with cleaning a canister filter everyday without adverse effects, so long as you clean it properly.


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

ameekplec. said:


> But without the excess organics to break down, which require nitrifying bacteria, you don't need all the bacteria.
> 
> That, and bacteria grow fast. Especially if they have abundant food. You could probably get away with cleaning a canister filter everyday without adverse effects, so long as you clean it properly.


Agreed. I'm lazy though, so that isn't going to happen.


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## BillD (Jun 5, 2006)

AquariAM said:


> The bacteria are on those solids. Rinsing the media in tank water will remove a significant amount of bacteria. Nitrifying bacteria are most prevelant on the top layer of whatever material they live on.


The bacteria are not on those solids. They are on the media, firmly attached. A good example is a wet/dry filter. The bio balls are always clean as the solids are removed by the prefilter.


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

BillD said:


> The bacteria are not on those solids. They are on the media, firmly attached. A good example is a wet/dry filter. The bio balls are always clean as the solids are removed by the prefilter.


Actually, bacteria would probably be found on those solids as well, albeit most likely in lower numbers compared to say a highly porous ceramic biomedia.


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## BillD (Jun 5, 2006)

Since the bacteria basically glue themselves to the surface, it stands to reason that fish feces are not an ideal substrate. This adhesion is what allows you to vigorously wash bio media, without removing the bacteria. It manages to stand up to the water flow through the filter, so squishing the foam or swishing ceramic noodles in water is not likely to remove them.


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

The soft detrius is probably a fairly ideal substrate for bacterial colonization. I would be willing to bet my LB broth that bacteria are coming off any media when it's being washed - but they're also very easily and quickly replaced.


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## Steeners (Mar 28, 2010)

Thank you all for your responses, you are all great! It's a lot to absorb. So basically I put the canister together the way it came in:
Bottom basket : fine filter - coarse filter (now I am confused as to why that is at the bottom) - I guess for when the water comes up and out?
Middle basket: ceramic rings - bio balls
Top basket: Two pieces of filter floss (excessive?)

I have not put any carbon in my filter. I am worried that if I start removing things that I will be killing off the good bacteria and pushing the tank into a mini cycle. Then again, my load is not that heavy with 15 tetras, 2 plecos and 4 corys (for now).

If I go with foam, rings/balls, foam again - how many pieces of foam are we talking about? - seems like you can put a lot in those canisters!

I don't mind cleaning the filter monthly. I have been doing water changes weekly so it's been added to my routine on the 4th week. I use the dirty fishy water for my garden


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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

Hmm, I am kind of sitting in both camps.
Just a note about the bio balls though, don't leave it dry for more than 2 hours. The bacteria will die and that will send you tank into a cycle. Learned it the hard way. That's the one thing I don't like about the plastic bio balls or plastic scrubbers for that matter. 
As for the canister filter, every tank is different and it just depends on the kinds of fish you have. You need to pay more attention and clean more often with meat eaters. Plecos and gold fish is another poop machine that needs a more frequent cleaning.
You can tell if there is bacteria or not on the plastic media or on the detrius. On the plastic, it will feel very smooth and slippery. That's bacteria. On the detrius, the light will reflect making it look like it is very glossy.
Also, another thing to keep in mind. Biomedia have been know to be a nitrate machine. That's why many salties are walking away from these kinds of setup. Where do these nitrate come from? The detrius. If you don't own a planted tank. You will need to clean your canister filter more frequently. You'll know when this happens because your nitrate build up will happen very quickly after a water change.

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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

Steeners said:


> ...Bottom basket : fine filter - coarse filter (now I am confused as to why that is at the bottom) - I guess for when the water comes up and out?
> Middle basket: ceramic rings - bio balls
> Top basket: Two pieces of filter floss (excessive?)
> 
> ...


I would pass on the floss too. Especially if I am on the 3 months filter cleaning schedule. But on a monthly basis, it's not a problem. Plus you will enjoy speckle free water  .
I would probably fill up every slot possible in the filter with either biomedia or sponge. It's never too little and if offers room for mistakes and power outages and other "acts of god" situation.

Carbon won't kill anything, and it's good to keep one around as it will be very useful in emergencies or after you medicated your tank. The only time you shouldn't be using it is when you are cycling the tank as it will absorb the ammonia/nitrite/nitrate and therefore impede the development of the bacteria colony. Once your tank is stable and healthy, there won't be any danger of that. It can only be a good thing. But expensive as you have to toss it out every month.

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## Steeners (Mar 28, 2010)

It is a planted tank, not heavily yet. I check my water params every week before doing a water change and I have never seen it go past 5.0ppm
I read from other forums that carbon is not that great for a planted tank?

I also heard its better to use the power jet nozzle for the out take instead of the spray bar - better circulation. I am using the spray bar and thinking of switching it out. 

And yes, plecos are big poopers


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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

Steeners said:


> It is a planted tank, not heavily yet. I check my water params every week before doing a water change and I have never seen it go past 5.0ppm
> I read from other forums that carbon is not that great for a planted tank?
> 
> I also heard its better to use the power jet nozzle for the out take instead of the spray bar - better circulation. I am using the spray bar and thinking of switching it out.
> ...


Yes you are correct, having a carbon in a planted tank will filter out some of the chemicals require for photosynthesis. So that makes is a favourable environment for algae to grow.
I haven't heard of the jet nozzle being better than the spray bar. Did they say why it's better?
Personally speaking though, I preffer the jet nozzle too.

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## BillD (Jun 5, 2006)

AquariAM said:


> The bacteria are on those solids. Rinsing the media in tank water will remove a significant amount of bacteria. Nitrifying bacteria are most prevelant on the top layer of whatever material they live on.


You are right that bacteria are on the solid crud, but it isn't nitrifying bacteria. It is the bacteria that consumes the solids creating food for the nitrifying bacteria. The solid materials while under flow from the filter will attempt to dissolve and get back into the water stream. It will appear that the filter is doing great, but some of the material is getting back into the tank. 
The reason for using a fine filter pad is to keep solids out of the bio material. Putting a fine at the end of the process does not prevent clogging of the bio media.


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## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

BillD said:


> You are right that bacteria are on the solid crud, but it isn't nitrifying bacteria. It is the bacteria that consumes the solids creating food for the nitrifying bacteria. The solid materials while under flow from the filter will attempt to dissolve and get back into the water stream. It will appear that the filter is doing great, but some of the material is getting back into the tank.
> The reason for using a fine filter pad is to keep solids out of the bio material. Putting a fine at the end of the process does not prevent clogging of the bio media.


I may be a bit out of it but I didn't follow you..


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## KhuliLoachFan (Mar 8, 2008)

Lots of people do it differently, and I hope they each find something that works for them.

The problem with fine filter media (floss) inside cannisters, is that it forces you to do your cannister tear-down more often. If you plan to do a monthly floss change, and a bit of a rinse on your cannisters, then by all means include the floss.

However, if you plan to leave it for two or three months, then the floss will be the first thing to plug up. 

Floss usage is a classic in the hobby, and like active carbon, the use of it is something that half the people you talk to will swear by, and half will swear at.
 Each has its usefulness, and its limitations.

Original Poster seems to be doing well on his own. Since I can't resist adding my advice: run two cannisters on your tank, not one. You'll thank me later.

W


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## BillD (Jun 5, 2006)

AquariAM said:


> [/COLOR][/COLOR]
> 
> I may be a bit out of it but I didn't follow you..


Which part the bacteria or the fine pad?


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## KhuliLoachFan (Mar 8, 2008)

I didn't understand BillD either. 

W


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## BillD (Jun 5, 2006)

I will try again. The solid materials, dead plant matter and fecal material are not consumed by the nitrifying bacteria. The bacteria that does consume it converts it to nitrogenous waste, which can be converted by nitrifying bacteria. So, the bacteria that is on this crud is not the nitrifying types. It does compete for oxygen with the nitrifying bacteria. If you have a lot of solid material in the filter, it needs to reduced to nitrogenous waste by the bacteria, before the nitrifying bacteria can deal with it. When the solids build up in the filter, water flow is reduced and oxygen levels are reduced. A badly clogged filter can actually have anaerobic areas. In addition, the pressure caused by the water flow can cause the solids to dissolve or break down into less visible but still present material. Regardless, the material is still in the tank. If the solid material was lying on the bottom (visible) would you leave it lying there for 3 months? Probably not, yet, if it is hidden inside the filter it is okay?
As far as using fine pads, the idea is obviously to polish the water, but also to keep the solid material from building up on the final bio media. You want it to remain clear of any build up of solids to aid in it's efficiency.
I hope that is a little clearer.


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## Ciddian (Mar 15, 2006)

KhuliLoachFan said:


> Lots of people do it differently, and I hope they each find something that works for them.
> 
> The problem with fine filter media (floss) inside cannisters, is that it forces you to do your cannister tear-down more often. If you plan to do a monthly floss change, and a bit of a rinse on your cannisters, then by all means include the floss.
> 
> ...


LOL I LOVE FF!!!! :3


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## KhuliLoachFan (Mar 8, 2008)

Yes. Now it makes sense. That's why on their manuals Eheim wants a "mechanical stage" before the primary biological stage. Their coarse mechanical media is the little ceramic tube things. My guess is they mostly don't want total blockage to happen. 

Thus I would not put the fine filter on the side closest to the inlet. If I follow the Eheim layout suggestion, it's mechanical coarse media (little tubes) first, then a coarse sponge, then a first layer of biomedia, then a fine filter pad, then a second layer of biomedia. 

So it's not all or nothing. It's a series of solids-reduction steps, and two or more areas where the nitrifying bacteria live. You don't want to leave all the solids in the water column, nor have them all on your sintered glass stage2 biomedia.

But in reality, there is nitrifying bacteria EVERYWHERE in the tank, and no amount of crud, or other bacteria that is eating the wastes, is ever the "only" thing happening. If you put a bunch of sponges in a filter (AquaClears especially), the whole process works fine. You don't actually need all these different kinds of media. Sure it's nice. Maybe it works better.

But the bacteria don't care whether you have floss or not. They live everywhere, and they don't care if you polish or not, or even what order you put any of it in. 
Everybody's welcome to follow whatever order they want. I have experimented and found NO difference whether I include the coarse media or not, in total flow through my filter over time. Odd, that. I can even leave it out. Or mix the coarse stuff with the stage 2 biomedia. It works equally great (for me). 


W


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