# My Sulawesi Cardinal Shrimp



## Bigdaddyo

I said I'd start a thread about my Sulawesi Shrimp. Here are some pictures to start.

I find these shrimp to be fairly active. More so than I've read about. Mind you there is no plants to hide in but there are plenty of holes in the rock to hide in. I few are shy and will retreat when I'm close to and observing the tank.
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Cardinal Shrimp.

Orange Delight. The only one I have and I would like to get more.

2 babies. 1 along the caulking on the left and the second to the very right of the picture


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## Egonsgirl

Babies already??? Congrats Daddyo!!! lol I like the set up too. Awesome.


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## Bigdaddyo

Egonsgirl said:


> Babies already??? Congrats Daddyo!!! lol I like the set up too. Awesome.


Yes I counted eight Friday night. I also have at least one more berried female. There could possibly be a second but I'm not 100% sure.


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## Bigdaddyo

I thought I'd share my tank set up and water parameters.
Tank - 10 gallons
Filter - Hamburg Mattenfilter with DIY PVC air driven lift tube
Lights - Phillips CFL's 6500k (home depot)
Substrate - crushed coral
I have some peacock moss in the tank and can't remember the name of the rocks. 
These water parameters are averaged over the last month or so.
Temp - 82 F
Ammonia - I don't measure because I don't have a kit.
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - usually 0 but never more than 5ppm
KH - 8
GH - 19
Ph - 8+ my kit measures in .5 increments
From what I've read from other hobbyists breeding these shrimp, GH and KH should both be around 8. I have a premixed pale of R/O mixed with Saltyshrimp Sulawesi Mineral 7.5 and I ran into issues with my hardness. I changed the filters and all seems good with my hardness from R/O now. So I'm just about out of the premix so when I mix the next pale I expect the GH to come down. On a side note the shrimp are active and breeding in this water so the high GH can't be bad for them.
Another update to share is.....I have counted as many is 15 babies and they are 2 different sizes. Plus I still have a female berried.


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## randy

Nice, we don't see too many Sulawesi posts here. Thanks for sharing.


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## Zebrapl3co

Nice. How often do you have to change water?

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## Bigdaddyo

Randy, I'll be posting regularly

Zebrapl3c0, I change the water when it's needed, not very often. I test twice a week so I change it when neccessary. I use an air line to vacuum twice a week so I replace what ever water I take out. I use a mason jar for water changes and top ups. I'll be posting my water change ritual with pictures.

Just a quick update, I have two berried females at the moment.


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## laurahmm

Congrats! Thats awesome news!


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## Bigdaddyo

So there hasn't been much change since I last posted. I haven't performed any water changes since either. I have just replenished what has evaporated. 
I do have more babies in the tank. I counted 20 last night. I'm sure there are more as the 3 bigger rocks in the tank are very porous and half the babies I count hang out on and in the holes in the rock. Some are shy and when I get close to the tank they will back into a hole. So I'm assuming I have more than 20 it's just very difficult to see all angles of the tank. There are 3 different size babies now and the oldest babies that are 3-4 weeks old are fully coloured.
Feeding - I feed about every 3-4 days with a tiny bit of algae wafer or some spinach. (Thanks to the Crystal shrimp 101 thread). I also crush a snail or 2 for them to scavange in between regular feedings. I'm getting good green algae growth on my rocks that they constantly pick at.


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## Bigdaddyo

It looks like the 4th Female has deliveered her eggs. I now have 4 batches of babies in my tank. The new ones are quite hard to see. I counted 27 babies tonight, my eyes were going squirrely trying to count them. I have an extra 23 long that I'm going to set up for these guys. I now have nearly 50 shrimps in a 10 gal.


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## iBetta

omg awesome! i can't seem to find these guys anywhere in the GTA! you're so lucky!  keep us posted!


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## Bigdaddyo

Here are some current photos.
This is the tank and you can see the green algae is growing nicely on the rocks. If you look on the left side on the tank on the glass you can see an adult and a baby one above the other.








Here is a comparison photo with a smaller adult and some shrimplettes. Sorry for the blurry photo. There is a split in the rock right in the middle of the picture and it just could get it to focus.


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## eatmysox

Congrats on the breeding. You know where to send some little ones

Sent by little green men....


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## Bigdaddyo

eatmysox said:


> Congrats on the breeding. You know where to send some little ones
> 
> Sent by little green men....


Jeff, your on the list right behind Aaronc. 
I have some video too but I don't have anything to compress it with. If I can figure out the technical mumbo jumbo I'll post it.


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## eatmysox

Bigdaddyo said:


> Jeff, your on the list right behind Aaronc.
> I have some video too but I don't have anything to compress it with. If I can figure out the technical mumbo jumbo I'll post it.


Post it to Facebook or to photo bucket and link it should be the easiest

Sent by little green men....


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## Bigdaddyo

So I haven't done anything with my Sulawsei tank since the last entry other that top up evaporated water and feed twice a week. Here are tonights test results
Ph 8.12 and Temp 80.4 (thanks to a digital tester Santa brought me)
No2 - 0ppm
No3 - >5ppm
GH - 20
KH - 8
I am currently in the middle of a 10% water change right now. I'm dripping fresh water back into the tank now.

I have plenty of green algae growth now as well as brown algae on the glass. I currently have 2 berried females and possibly 3, it was hard to tell for sure through the distortion in the glass. I'm going to set up a another tank and try for a second breeding colony. 

On a side note I bought some CRS from Aaronc in November and I have a berried female in that tank now (first one for me). I don't remember doing a water change on that tank since I put them in there. Any way the Barry White albums and red scarf over the lamp are doing the trick.


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## pyrrolin

You could also try to sell some


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## eatmysox

Congrats you are doing something yet. I also don't do water changes on my crystal shrimp. I have well over a hundred and many berried females. All o do is top up with RO and add remineralize from bright well 

Sent by little green men....


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## Fishfur

I don't know if they still have them, but Aquatic Kingdom did have Sulawesi shrimp not too long before Christmas. Very expensive, but gorgeous little guys. Love the pics.. I was drooling over the ones they had at AK but did not have the cash or the setup to keep them properly. But I would love to have them one day, they are truly beautiful little shrimp.


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## camboy012406

I have them before but they are really hard to breed almost impossible. your lucky to bred them dude


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## Bigdaddyo

camboy012406 said:


> I have them before but they are really hard to breed almost impossible. your lucky to bred them dude


I wish I could say I knew exactly what I'm doing but I chalk up my short history of success to dumb luck. There are a lot of hard luck stories on the web and I bought these as a gamble. I consider myself very fortunate.


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## LTPGuy

Bigdaddyo said:


> I thought I'd share my tank set up and water parameters.
> Tank - 10 gallons
> Filter - Hamburg Mattenfilter with DIY PVC air driven lift tube
> Lights - Phillips CFL's 6500k (home depot)
> Substrate - crushed coral
> I have some peacock moss in the tank and can't remember the name of the rocks.
> These water parameters are averaged over the last month or so.
> Temp - 82 F
> Ammonia - I don't measure because I don't have a kit.
> Nitrite - 0
> Nitrate - usually 0 but never more than 5ppm
> KH - 8
> GH - 19
> Ph - 8+ my kit measures in .5 increments
> From what I've read from other hobbyists breeding these shrimp, GH and KH should both be around 8. I have a premixed pale of R/O mixed with Saltyshrimp Sulawesi Mineral 7.5 and I ran into issues with my hardness. I changed the filters and all seems good with my hardness from R/O now. So I'm just about out of the premix so when I mix the next pale I expect the GH to come down. On a side note the shrimp are active and breeding in this water so the high GH can't be bad for them.
> Another update to share is.....I have counted as many is 15 babies and they are 2 different sizes. Plus I still have a female berried.


Thank you for this very inspirational post. You made it sound so effortless!

Is that a typo in your mineral mix? Is it 7.5 or 8.5?

What kind of problem did you faced with the filter and the water hardness?

By changing the filter, do you mean replacing the media, or cleaning it?

Also, if my wife leaves me, I am going to blame you and this post!


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## Bigdaddyo

LTPGuy said:


> Thank you for this very inspirational post. You made it sound so effortless!
> 
> Is that a typo in your mineral mix? Is it 7.5 or 8.5?
> 
> What kind of problem did you faced with the filter and the water hardness?
> 
> By changing the filter, do you mean replacing the media, or cleaning it?
> 
> Also, if my wife leaves me, I am going to blame you and this post!


I use the 7.5 Perhaps my Ph is throwing you off a bit? The number of the mineral salt is the Ph buffer, according to Salty Shrimp description. How every the substrate will buffer the Ph to about 8.2

I changed the filters in my R/O unit (2 carbon and a sediment). I have a HMF on this tank and you don't have to change anything for years.

The wife comment reminds me of a joke and I'll adapted it for us shrimpers.
"The wife told me it was her or the shrimps. I'll miss her."


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## LTPGuy

Bigdaddyo said:


> I use the 7.5 Perhaps my Ph is throwing you off a bit? The number of the mineral salt is the Ph buffer, according to Salty Shrimp description. How every the substrate will buffer the Ph to about 8.2
> 
> I changed the filters in my R/O unit (2 carbon and a sediment). I have a HMF on this tank and you don't have to change anything for years.
> 
> The wife comment reminds me of a joke and I'll adapted it for us shrimpers.
> "The wife told me it was her or the shrimps. I'll miss her."


I hope you don't mind answering some more questions, but you really inspired me, and I am likely to build a tank to try your setup.

You mentioned that your substrate is crush coral, which makes an awesome background for the shrimps, but chemistry wise, would that not have nullify the buffering effect of your mineral mix?

I know it's hard to argue against your success, but I am just trying to understand the setup and the logic of it all.

Would you or someone comment on whether a 3Gal or a 4Gal tank is too small for raising Cardinal Shrimps?

I'll probably start another thread as not to hijack your on starting a cardinal tank.

Thanks again


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## Bigdaddyo

LTPGuy said:


> I hope you don't mind answering some more questions, but you really inspired me, and I am likely to build a tank to try your setup.
> 
> You mentioned that your substrate is crush coral, which makes an awesome background for the shrimps, but chemistry wise, would that not have nullify the buffering effect of your mineral mix?
> 
> I know it's hard to argue against your success, but I am just trying to understand the setup and the logic of it all.
> 
> Would you or someone comment on whether a 3Gal or a 4Gal tank is too small for raising Cardinal Shrimps?
> 
> I'll probably start another thread as not to hijack your on starting a cardinal tank.
> 
> Thanks again


I don't mind any questions at all. I started this journal/thread to share my experience so other people can learn/share their experience.
My initial research from other hobbyists listed water parameter with a Ph of 8-8.5 and anywhere from 5-9 kh/gh. Some swore by their method as the only way to set up a tank. I then read one fellas advise and his rule of thumb alkaline and consistant water. Made sense to me and fit into my theory of tank maintanance.
Crushed coral is the substrate of choice to most hobbyists breeding Cardinal Shrimp. It naturallly buffers to 8.2 Ph, you don't have to tinker with duffer additives. Awesome, that's right up my alley. 
I bought Sulawesi Mineral 7.5 as a suppliment to R/O to control water hardness. I figured if I bought 8.5 I'd be constantly adding R/O or salt trying to buffer the Ph. So I understand your train of thought about nullifying the buffering ability of the mineral salts but I'm relying on the crushed coral to buffer the ph for me.
When I first got the salt I mixed up (according to the direction on the label) 5 gallons ~ measured the Kh and Gh and introduced it the tank. I made a second 5 gallons bucket up and matched the Kh/Gh. I did that to reduce the parameters from swinging any time I did a water change. As we were talking today and from what I've recorded in this thread, I don't do very many water changes. "if it ain't broken, don't fix it". In fact I just mixed up my second "water change" bucket this past week since I started the tank.
I also had a second bucket with an inch and a half of crushed coral and R/O. I used this for topping up evaporated water. No Ph swing.
A couple weeks after I started the tank I was at Charlie Drew's buying some pleco's and got a first hand look at his fish room. I noticed his automatic drip/water change set up. He told me it reduces swings in the toxins in the water and most importantly the Ph doesn't swing either. I don't have a set up to justify an automated water change sytem but it did get my wheels turning. When I replenish water from a water change or evaporation I use a Mason jar and an air line with an inline valve. I drip water into my tank. It takes about 45 minutes to drip 20 ounces of water. I've noticed that temperature doesn't flucuate either.
I hope this sheds some light for you.

As for a tank size, I'd suggest a 10 gallon to start with. The bigger the water column the easier it is to maintain consistency. You can be successful with a smaller tank but you have to be diligent (IMO) with your maintanance. The bigger tank also allows more surface area for good stuff to grow on like algae and bio film. The dimensions also gives you a larger footprint for rocks, another place for the good stuff to grow on. Keep in mind their natural habitat is rocky and low in nutrients, so that means very little to no plants. I have a moss ball and some peacock moss in that tank and they really don't bother with it. New born shrimp pick at it bit but they usually go for the brown algae on the glass.


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## LTPGuy

In that case, I'll ask some more questions, but please stop me if I get out of hand. I am going to try to duplicate your setup. I cleared up one of my tank, but need to build the MHF, and cycle the tank.

I wonder if it possible for you to outline the steps that you used to setup your tank including details of any measurement and proportion made. For example, when you syphon the gravel, how much water were taken out and replaced. 

In the meantime, if you don't mind explaining how you mix your mineral. You said you add the mineral to until you get the specific KH and GH. What were those value?

And sorry to still be hung up with the Salty 7.5, but how I understand buffer is that the solution contain a base and a conjugate acid. There is a limited capacity which the buffer can stabilize the pH.

Base on your pH measurement of ~8.2, which you noted as the buffering point of the crush coral, I would think that the buffer capacity in the Salty 7.5 was totally used up thus in a way defeat the purpose of the buffer capability of the mix.

Given, there are other essential minerals in the mix which are good for the shrimps.

The reason I ask is because I wonder if the crush coral is needed at all, and that Salty 8.5 could be used, and that the buffer in Salty 8.5 would keep the pH of the water from swinging to a point.

If you did not used the mineral mix, perhaps crush coral would be useful.

Thanks again for your thoughts.


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## Bigdaddyo

LTPGuy said:


> .
> 
> (1)I wonder if it possible for you to outline the steps that you used to setup your tank including details of any measurement and proportion made. For example, when you syphon the gravel, how much water were taken out and replaced.
> 
> (2)In the meantime, if you don't mind explaining how you mix your mineral. You said you add the mineral to until you get the specific KH and GH. What were those value?
> 
> And sorry to still be hung up with the Salty 7.5, but how I understand buffer is that the solution contain a base and a conjugate acid. There is a limited capacity which the buffer can stabilize the pH.
> 
> (3)The reason I ask is because I wonder if the crush coral is needed at all, and that Salty 8.5 could be used, and that the buffer in Salty 8.5 would keep the pH of the water from swinging to a point.
> 
> (3)If you did not used the mineral mix, perhaps crush coral would be useful.


(1) I siphon enough to remove the poop. I don't know how much it actually is, I'd guess about 10%. As far as my set up and proportion. I decided on the HMF because from my experience it is very low maintanance and very effective. The air driven lift tube adds O2 and there are no mechanical parts to break or clog up. I went with the crushed coral for the buffering ability for the water. The rocks are porous, lots of nooks and crannies for shrimp to hide.

(2)This is going to be a bit of a mind bender and proof of my dumb luck. On the jar of Sulawesi mineral salt, the directions say to mix the powder into R/O water until you can measure 6 degrees of hardness. I put to much in the mix. Here's the kicker my 8 degrees of KH was still less than the tap water that was in the tank (I am second guessing on whether the mineral salt is necessary at all. However my population isn't big enough to try a tank with out it.) As luck would have it my shrimp survived and eventually started to breed.

(3) Because I kept a 5 gallon bucket of just R/O and crushed coral I wasn't worried about a Ph swing when topping up the tank. I also wasn't or am worried about Ph swings due to the slow drip method I use. So I believe it's possible that you don't need crushed coral and that the mineral salt will do it.

A note on the tank that I have my shrimp in, it has been running for about 1.5 years. I just changed the substrate, added rocks and a HMF. I kept the sponge filter the was in the tank already for about a month to make sure the HMF was seeded. I was a very mature tank. I'd suggest starting a tank with some fish and run it for a few months to establish bio film and good bateria.


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## LTPGuy

Thanks for all of your help.

When the baby are ready and you are willing, I would like to get a low quality pair off you if you are willing to part with two. I know if hard if not impossible to sex them, but I just want a pair to test the setup before committing to more.

Please PM me, or I'll PM you when the babies are ready, and you are willing to give up two.

Thanks again.


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## Bigdaddyo

So I did some testing tonight. Everything is on par.
No3 = 0
No4 = 0
Gh = 8
Kh = 19
Ph = 8.21
Temp = 81.9
TDS = 608 I picked up a new toy this past week end.
No water changes, just a couple top ups.

I spotted my first shrimplet from the second round of berried females. I'm guessing that of the 4 berried females 3 are still berried. It's tough to spot them all at once. It seems that females who are with in a couple weeks seek cover. They all seem to find a spot under a rock somewhere and nearly every time I check on them they are there or very near by. Unfortunately one female has choosen a spot that is very hard to see.

I've also noticed on of my smaller shrimplets (probably from the last of the 4 females to let her eggs go) is a bluish/opague color. It's normal fro the shrimp to look this way when you firtst turn on the lights or if they are stressed. However this little guy shows it all the time and for the past week of so. It is very active just like all the other shrimp. I'll be keeping an eye on it, I have read of a color mutation by the name of white pearl cardinal.


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## getochkn

Good stuff on keeping them. They are going to be one of my next projects to setup a tank for at some point. They can take a bit of param range as well. The key is getting either enough wild caught ones that some breed and your population starts there, or getting some tank raised ones and they are a lot easier. Too many that are imported, are just wild caught and don't do well in the transition to tank water. Brought up in it for a generation or two, and they are a lot easier. That's where I think a lot of the "myth" of how hard they are comes in.

Arrrg, so many tanks I want to setup. lol.


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## LTPGuy

If you have the water parameter for your RO+Crush coral top up bucket, I would appreciate you posting them.

Thanks very much.


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## Bigdaddyo

LTPGuy said:


> If you have the water parameter for your RO+Crush coral top up bucket, I would appreciate you posting them.
> 
> Thanks very much.


I've done away with the R/O crushed coral bucket. I just mixed a bucket of minerals/crushed coral/RO. I figure with the slow drip method that I've been using there should be very little Ph swing when topping up with just R/O.


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## Bigdaddyo

Oh boy have I been slacking. There hasn't been much to report. It's status quo. The last 7 weeks I've been doing water top ups and feeding twice a week, the same routine as always. I did check Nitrates about 3 weeks ago just to see where they tested at, 0ppm then. So I did all the tests today and this is what I my results were.

TDS- 606
Gh 19
Kh 8
No3 0
No 2
Temp 81.2

Pretty much on par with all the other test results I've posted. I have a new round of babies in the tank that look like they are anywhere from 3-6 weeks old. I sat down and watched the tank for a few minutes and there is 1 berried female and possibly a second. It's hard to see the second female as they seem to hide when berried. I counted 4 berried females in January, I'm hoping for a couple more to become mature soon. 
Everything is going well and I would guestimate that the population is about 80 shrimps.


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## igor.kanshyn

Wow, good job!
These shrimps are so beautiful. Try to breed them!


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## lovevc

grats! sulawesi shrimps are beautiful!


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## Bigdaddyo

OK so it's been a while. All is well and the routine has been the same old same old. I sold some shrimp today, so they have been breeding well for me.

Now for the report. Even though I've been successful with these shrimp I got a reminder as to how delicate these guys are. While netting the shrimp I noticed that a few turned blue rather quickly (a sign of stress). I left those shrimp alone and selected other shrimp to pack. I lost 2 shrimp to stress (I guess, no other reason why) while collecting them to bag. Then a third this morning when I went bag 5 more.

So even though they have settled in nicely for me in my aquarium they are still quite fragile.


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## kevinli1021

You got GH ~ 19 BigdaddyO? Mine is about 15 I hope I am able to adapt the cardinals when I get them.


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