# sump mechanical filtration?? floss or not?



## samiam (Jan 27, 2009)

Hi all,

so i'm pretty much setup and good to go with my tank. Now my question is, do i need mechanical filtration in my sump? by that i mean, should i have a spot for filter floss? and the carbon? or should i just throw in bag of carbon and no floss?

ive read a lot of opinions, many say no filtration, only the liverock/cheato/skimmer should do it. whats your opinion on this?

my sump is setup so i have 7" intak/8" return/4" fuge

will this be enough? i've also been told that i can stuff the filter floss in the intake part of the overflow (my tank is not drilled). how about live rock rubble in the sump? i've read that this does the same as having bioballs and becomes a nitrate factory?

any opinions would be appreciated...

thanks!


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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

Are you running a salt water setup or a fresh water?
I can't speak for the salties, because I know zilch about salt water tanks.
But for fresh water tank, it's the best kind of filtration you can have. I've been running a sump for years and still have no clue what people are talking about it being a nitrate factory.

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## blossom112 (Mar 19, 2008)

samiam said:


> Hi all,
> 
> so i'm pretty much setup and good to go with my tank. Now my question is, do i need mechanical filtration in my sump? by that i mean, should i have a spot for filter floss? and the carbon? or should i just throw in bag of carbon and no floss?
> 
> ...


No filterfloss of any kind .... sure you could put carbon .
You have enough with what you have you do not need anything else ans NO BIO-BALLS!!!!!!!!!!.
If you like to have cleaner water and feel you need mechanical then just throw on a HOB (or canister but clean often) , but I would never put any filter floss of any kind in a saltwater sump .

putting filter floss in sump= trouble........thats my opinion


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## blossom112 (Mar 19, 2008)

rubble ,cheeto , they all fine ... with plants tho you will need a light there .


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## UnderTheSea (Jun 2, 2008)

After moving rocks around in my system I will throw some floss in the sump for a 24hr period and remove.

The more natural filtration you have the better (easier to maintain). Ideal sump IMO is:

Deep Sand Bed
Rock (as much as possible)
Macro Algae
Skimmer (depending on your own theory behind skimmers)

As for the carbon, putting carbon in a sock and just letting it sit in your some in which should be slow flow is very ineffective. The water needs to be pushed through the carbon to be effective and this is why my use carbon reactors.


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## Ciddian (Mar 15, 2006)

I do use some floss in my sump to help catch the partical issue I have atm. I change it every day.


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## samiam (Jan 27, 2009)

ok so i got the tank it running last night...couple issues...

i'm getting a lot of bubbles into the sump from the tank and a lot of small particles into the tank (i'm guessing this is what micro bubbles are, but the skimmer is not running)

the other issues, is i have a mag 12 pumping the water back up to the tank...but i cant keep it at full power (i have a gate valve after it)...the overflow is slightly slower than the mag 12 can push up...

for example, i can have the mag 12 running at full throttle for 20 minutes and the sump loses about 3-4inches of water...

as for filtration, i have the bare sump right now...skimmer is off...no cheato or sandbed in the sump. is that good until i cycle the tank? or should i put the cheato in there as soon as possible? also, would a sand bed be required in the refugium?

thanks guys! appreciate the advise!


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## UnderTheSea (Jun 2, 2008)

Sounds like you over flow pipe is on the small size for the return pump. What type of overflow are you running?


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Could also be your overflow - I made the gaps in mine too small so I had to make it bigger to handle the flow.


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## blossom112 (Mar 19, 2008)

I would put sand in the middle compartment of your sump , be sure that the pump is not near the sand lol I did this and it clogged the pump .
I find sand does good and gets live and will aid in filtration , pluse it is easier to collect the scum and python it out when it gets too much!
Trust me you will have soo much scum (brown layer ) caked everywhere .

the bubbles are from water flowing over the pannels in the sump and theres a peice you can put there but the name escapes me ,and driving me nutts I cant remember the name ......oh please someone name it , driving me batty ....all this freshwater Co2 learning my brain is in over load


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## samiam (Jan 27, 2009)

my overflow must be the issue (the overflow is a cpr, and i'm using 1" pvc for plumbing)...but whats wierd is that i had it running perfectly during my freshwater test at full flow....

my original plan for the sump was going to have 3 baffles between the skimmer and the return pump (bubble trap), but my skimmer was actually 1" wider than i thought, so i had to scrap 2 baffles...that may be part of my bubble problem :S

for sand in the refugium, should i just use the same sand i have in the tank? I've heard of magic mud should i use that instead?

thanks


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## blossom112 (Mar 19, 2008)

Thatsd the word!!!!!!!!!!! it has been bugging me for hours .
BAFFLES is the word of the day !!!

what you might want to do to reduce the micro bubbles is , im not sure your skimmer ?
is it the berlin? make the air intake wider , there is an attachment you can put this way the skimmer will work way better and will not get the micro bubbles from the skimmer , then the baffle on the pump overflow should take care the problem .
I didf have the same problem and replaced with wider intake and was fixed , but you will need to test and use a 5gl bucket for the skimmer overflow and watch it for 48 hours then you can tweek it as you like !
I used a mag 9 on my berlin and was SWEET!


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## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

The CPR HOB overflow w/1x1" plumbing to the sump is a bit of a risk using a Mag 12 as it's rated to safely handle a flow of 800gph. The 2x1" CPR can handle a flow of 1400gph.

A drop of 3-4" of water in the sump sounds typical with the return pump gph but really depends on the width of the sump, sorry, I don't know the exact dims of your sump. Depending on the skimmer, the Mag 12 might be too strong and the added flow throught the sump, along w/removed baffles would be adding to the micro bubble issue.

I wouldn't bother w/Miracle Mud, sugar size aragonite works just as well. 

HTH


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## blossom112 (Mar 19, 2008)

\HE is alive!!!!
Nice to see you !!!!!!


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## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

LOL...heya D


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## samiam (Jan 27, 2009)

thanks guys...

so the tank has been running for a few days now...i'm losing an inch or so of water in my return section due to evaporation. it's even otherwise...although my return pump is slightly dialed down to match the flow from the overflow.

i haven;t runt he skimmer yet, nor have i put in the sand bed into the fuge. Should i wait until the tank is cycled to do so? 

I have been testing the water...Ammonia is up (1.2) (i put in 2 raw shrimp on Sat.), Nitrites (1.0) and nitrates (50) are also up...PH is hard to read on my test kit...its between 7.5 and 8...

just need to wait it out...btw, the raw shrimp i put in there happen to get under my liverock...is it ok if i leave it in there? or should i pull it out at some point?


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## blossom112 (Mar 19, 2008)

the sand should have been put in , but dont do it now as you hands will surly get burnt .
Ideally your looking for an ammonia spike way higher then you have ...and looks to me it may not get much higher as you already have nitrites and nitrates and did this sat ...
nitrates are good and the other are way to low for a proper cycle .
I think you may have to help it along with something else !
(ammonia or superbac)
I wouldnt worry about the raw shrimp !
WTG you are on your way!!!


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## samiam (Jan 27, 2009)

really eh? i think maybe all the dead snails are what caused the low ammonia and nitrite readings...so i should help it? hmmm, i'll see if i can get superbak tonite...

I don;t know what you mean by my hands getting burnt?

thanks!!


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