# RO Water Questions, Need Help



## Kweli

Im deciding a few of my options...

Make my own Saltwater
1) Buy a RO/DI machine to install in my house & purchase a bucket of salt
2) Buy RO Water at a dispenser for 70c a gallon and purchase a bucket of salt

OR
3) Buy pre-made saltwater at Big-Als for .99c a gallon. Buckets of salt are normally 50dollars for 160G... which ends up being very close to the same price difference between buying RO wate (.70C and buying premade salt at .99C)

Ideas? Suggestions?
Or is buying premade at big als a big no-no

I have a 34G solana, so I will be needing about 4G a week for WC and 1-2G of FW for topoff (I estimate)


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## tsam

1) is the best option. who wants to lug around containers of water when you can make it at home.


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## Kweli

tsam said:


> 1) is the best option. who wants to lug around containers of water when you can make it at home.


True.... Doing the research for a 'cost effective' RO and figuring out how to install it seems like a headache.... I can already picture myself flooding my first floor

Any tips on buying a RO/DI unit for less then 150 dollars (that is actually good?)


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## wtac

Just to open up more options for you 

If you are a coffee/tea aficionado, using RO/DI water will make unbelievable tasting coffee/tea. Being one myself, I can attest to the taste difference b/w tap waster and RO/DI-distilled water.

Get a RO/DI kit that includes a 1-2gal storage tank and a counter dispenser. If you have an ice making feature in your freezer, you can T off the unit as well.

For even more environment friendly option, get the "Zero Waste" where the brine/rejected water is pumped into the hot water line(?).

$150 will be hard to find on a new unit, most likely 2nd hand from the classified of that's your budget. Most likely you will have to purchase a piercing saddle valve ($15-25) and other fittings ($3-12ea) and most likely hose for it. 

A new system with the storage/dispensing kit and zero waste will run you in the $350-500 range.

JM2C/E


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## Kweli

That sounds pretty good (the coffee and the zero waste idea)

That price is not wife friendly though.....


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## arc

169+25+20(ship to Canada) + currency conversion

http://www.melevsreef.com/ro_di.html

Been meaning to get this for a while but since my tanks are FW so I couldn't justify the cost. There maybe duties on this so check with him if you decide to buy it.


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## ajdelosr

Personally I don't use RO/DI water, I just use Seachem Prime and let it sit in the water I'm about to use for a couple of days. I haven't experienced much algae bloom, my fish are doing great, and even my corals are growing (Xenia, Torch, Mushroom, GSP, and some random polyp)


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## Salty1

*Blakes Living Reef*

50 GPD 4-Stage Barracuda RO/DI System

Description :

The Barracuda offers the following features: High efficiency 1-micron sediment pre-filter 2-micron chlorine guzzler carbon block pre-filter, High flow/high rejection TFC membrane High-efficiency color-changing DI cartridge 160 PSI pressure gauge marked with operating and unsafe ranges In-Line TDS meter Solid Aluminum "no-rust" metal mounting bracket Clear 10" filter cartridge housings.

$264.88 + taxes & shipping

www.blakeslivingreef.ca


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## Ciddian

I love the zero waste option wtac mentioned. I bought an RO/DI for my saltwater set up and it was an okay set up. I would have gone with that if they had them at the time. (or I knew of them.. lol)

I just didn't have room to store the extra waste water so it used to bug me in that sense. I bought my RO from DWI. Very easy to use unit once I understood the basics of ro filters lol

For smaller tanks in the future say 20 gallons and under I might just purchase my water.


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## Cypher

wtac said:


> Just to open up more options for you
> 
> For even more environment friendly option, get the "Zero Waste" where the brine/rejected water is pumped into the hot water line(?).
> 
> JM2C/E


Sorry to run abit off topic, but what exactly is in the 'waste water'/ 'brine' from an RO unit? Could I use it to water plants in the garden?

Thanks.


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## Salty1

Waste water is all the stuff that you do not want in your reef tank. You can use it to water your plants ect. Your reef tank requires very clean water otherwise you will have lots of issues down the road.


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## marblerye

I used to buy water until i bought my RO/DI unit from a water supply store called maxwatersupply. I use it for home drinking water too so it was a decent unit but after I changed their cheap filters with ones from BRS it worked a hell of a lot better. They also only offer inline DI resin canisters which typically don't last too long so I grabbed a full sized upgrade DI canister to work as a stage 2 from BWI. 

My unit ran me 199+tax and i picked it up so no shipping. What I learned is all RO/DI units are pretty much the same; plastic canisters all screwed into a metal bracket with a few fittings and tubes plus an auto-shut off and a flush valve. The fittings and filters used are where they differ greatly; push connect fittings or the cheaper screwed in fitting, and cheap filters vs high quality filters from respectable companies that are leaders in the water industry (I sound like BRS  ). With mine I opted for the water tank which stores RO drinking water only, and a neat little faucet I installed into my kitchen counter for clean drinking water. Overall i think it's most cost effective to make your own water especially after finding out how Big Al's makes their water they fill into those jugs..........

although to be honest, my tank has been up for a little over a year and everything has stabilized that I rarely do any water changes. I know it's recommended to do water changes often but I think my last water change was 2 months ago? Not really sure.. I only top-off with RO/DI water and would do water changes only to restore trace elements/calcium in my tank. My tank don't seem to mind the lack of water changes either because it stresses the fish out when I do and no, I don't have hair algae/cynobacteria (although RO/DI helped me kill it off for good) either and coralline algae is shooting through the roof. I see no difference before or after a water change though.


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## n21981606

i would not use the waste water from an ro to water plants. it is the reject side of the membrane and it has salt calcium and copper/iron from the pipes. over time if you only used reject water on the plants you would kill them from all the salt. 

water purification is my career and i have done every thing from bottled water plants to hospital dialysis clinics. you never want to resuse waste/reject water as it is pure garbage and usually has bactiera in it.


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## conix67

n21981606 said:


> i would not use the waste water from an ro to water plants. it is the reject side of the membrane and it has salt calcium and copper/iron from the pipes. over time if you only used reject water on the plants you would kill them from all the salt.
> 
> water purification is my career and i have done every thing from bottled water plants to hospital dialysis clinics. you never want to resuse waste/reject water as it is pure garbage and usually has bactiera in it.


I'm not convinced the waste water is that bad. Typical RO systems generate waste water vs RO water in 5+ to 1 ratio. This means concentration of all trace elements are slightly higher in the waste water, but not high enough to consider it "garbage".

Also, the waste water from RO systems already have been filtered through pre-filter, and many systems do use carbon in the pre-filter as well. This means typically even the waste water from RO system has less of undesirable elements than tap water.


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## goffebeans

I never quite understood the zero waste units.

How does the waste water actually get pumped to the hot water line??
Does this require that the R/O unit be placed within proximity of the hot tank?

Also if you use higher GPD units such as 150-200 GPD, is there anything different you would need vs say a 75GPD? i.e. booster pump



wtac said:


> Just to open up more options for you
> 
> If you are a coffee/tea aficionado, using RO/DI water will make unbelievable tasting coffee/tea. Being one myself, I can attest to the taste difference b/w tap waster and RO/DI-distilled water.
> 
> Get a RO/DI kit that includes a 1-2gal storage tank and a counter dispenser. If you have an ice making feature in your freezer, you can T off the unit as well.
> 
> For even more environment friendly option, get the "Zero Waste" where the brine/rejected water is pumped into the hot water line(?).
> 
> $150 will be hard to find on a new unit, most likely 2nd hand from the classified of that's your budget. Most likely you will have to purchase a piercing saddle valve ($15-25) and other fittings ($3-12ea) and most likely hose for it.
> 
> A new system with the storage/dispensing kit and zero waste will run you in the $350-500 range.
> 
> JM2C/E


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## Kweli

So the waste water actually picks up negative attributes from the RO unit?

I always thought that it couldnt be worse then the source (which is the tap water i feed the plants anyway)


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## conix67

Kweli said:


> So the waste water actually picks up negative attributes from the RO unit?
> 
> I always thought that it couldnt be worse then the source (which is the tap water i feed the plants anyway)


You don't pick up negative attributes from RO unit. Those elements that are not filtered by pre-filter will have higher concentration. I just can't think of anything that will have significantly higher concentration. If anything, it couldn't be anywhere from 20% or less than the source.


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## wtac

Goffee: The "Zero Waste" pumps the brine/waste water of the RO/DI unit into the hotwater line with a booster/permeate pump. Proximity should be close, would be a bad day if that line breaks :O.

Kweli: the waste water is just a portion of the water that goes unprocessed as pressure is required to push the water molecules through the membrane. Not a highly efficient means of getting "pure" water; generally a 4:1 (bad: good) so we're looking at 25% efficiency, but for the $$$, longterm upkeep costs (filter cartridges and membrane), spatial requirements and pretty much on demand and no worries of cleaning a reservoir, water feed, etc, as in distillaton units, it's the easiest and simplest for the demand of this niche of water purity.


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## n21981606

conix67 said:


> I'm not convinced the waste water is that bad. Typical RO systems generate waste water vs RO water in 5+ to 1 ratio. This means concentration of all trace elements are slightly higher in the waste water, but not high enough to consider it "garbage".
> 
> Also, the waste water from RO systems already have been filtered through pre-filter, and many systems do use carbon in the pre-filter as well. This means typically even the waste water from RO system has less of undesirable elements than tap water.


you are not 100% correct. yes your pre filter has carbon in it. over time the carbon breaks down and will enter the ro. the ro membrane will reject the carbon fines as it will not fit through the pores of the membrane. the waste water is concentrated with everything that is in the tap water. it is not the water that the ro makes is the same that comes in but you end up with 2 types of water. the clean product water and the dirty reject water. if you mixed the 2 together you would have the same water as the tap but with out chlorine.

the reject water will not have anything good in it. it is all the crap that doesn't fit through the membrane. if you wish to use it use it. but if you took 1 cup of waste water and one cup of tap water the waste will have a much higher microsiemen measurement (the unit of measurement of conductivity of electricity of water .uS) then the tap. Toronto water is usually 300-400uS feed water. a new membrane should be able to get the product down to under 15 uS. the conductivity of the reject is 1000+uS.

for thouse of you used to mesuring TDS the conversion is

1 ppm TDS= 1.56 microS/cm.

bottom line is the waste water is the bad stuff in your tap water and heavily full of what ever contaminates are in it like iron, calcium, magnesium, and if you have a water softener then its also full of salt.


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## conix67

n21981606 said:


> you are not 100% correct. yes your pre filter has carbon in it. over time the carbon breaks down and will enter the ro. the ro membrane will reject the carbon fines as it will not fit through the pores of the membrane. the waste water is concentrated with everything that is in the tap water. it is not the water that the ro makes is the same that comes in but you end up with 2 types of water. the clean product water and the dirty reject water. if you mixed the 2 together you would have the same water as the tap but with out chlorine.
> 
> the reject water will not have anything good in it. it is all the crap that doesn't fit through the membrane. if you wish to use it use it. but if you took 1 cup of waste water and one cup of tap water the waste will have a much higher microsiemen measurement (the unit of measurement of conductivity of electricity of water .uS) then the tap. Toronto water is usually 300-400uS feed water. a new membrane should be able to get the product down to under 15 uS. the conductivity of the reject is 1000+uS.
> 
> for thouse of you used to mesuring TDS the conversion is
> 
> 1 ppm TDS= 1.56 microS/cm.
> 
> bottom line is the waste water is the bad stuff in your tap water and heavily full of what ever contaminates are in it like iron, calcium, magnesium, and if you have a water softener then its also full of salt.


My TDS meter tells me that reject water is at around 220ppm, while tap water is around 150ppm. While the TDS rate in reject is higher than I thought, it's still in line with my expectation - a little higher than tap water.

When you think about it, this does make sense. 1000ml of tap water goes through RO/DI system, and in my case it's about 200ml in filtered water vs 800ml in reject. Based on TDS measurement ratio, my prefilters are adding something to the reject water.

Does TDS of 220ppm makes it garbage water? I don't know. Yes, it's slightly worse than tap water, but it might still be better than rain water these days, and will have lots of uses for it besides drinking.


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## Kweli

Out of curiosity, what are you guys measuring Toronto water on the TDS readings?


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## conix67

Kweli said:


> Out of curiosity, what are you guys measuring Toronto water on the TDS readings?


I live in Vaughan (Thornhill), not sure how different it is here compared to downtown Toronto, but my reading is 150ppm.


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## n21981606

conix67 said:


> My TDS meter tells me that reject water is at around 220ppm, while tap water is around 150ppm. While the TDS rate in reject is higher than I thought, it's still in line with my expectation - a little higher than tap water.
> 
> When you think about it, this does make sense. 1000ml of tap water goes through RO/DI system, and in my case it's about 200ml in filtered water vs 800ml in reject. Based on TDS measurement ratio, my prefilters are adding something to the reject water.
> 
> Does TDS of 220ppm makes it garbage water? I don't know. Yes, it's slightly worse than tap water, but it might still be better than rain water these days, and will have lots of uses for it besides drinking.


you must not have a softener then correct? thats why your tds is 220ppm. when i say garbage water i was refering to the comment about plumbing it in to the hot water line on a so called zero waste unit.

i personally wouldn't use the water for anything but that's just my professional opinion.


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## vaporize

Scarborough here

- tap = 140, waste = 180

Waste water is typically not that bad for non-food applications. like taking a shower and such. Remember the days that you guys use Brita water filter? That thing is only a dinky carbon block and people drink it. going through 2-3 prefilter is already better than that thing


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## conix67

replaced sediment, carbon cartridges and refilled DI all from bulk reef supply.

Currently both tap water and waste water reads 150ppm.. what a difference

Also, my drinking water system has been replaced yesterday, with the system from Costco (WATTS brand). Very good price for 4 stage system (no DI, but special VOC filter?).

I had GE "easy" system before, but filter replacement for all 3 costs me $180 plus taxes, and it's slower (15GPD vs 25GPD). This new system costs me $225 plus taxes, but comes with one year worth of extra filter cartridges (2xsediment, 2xcarbon, 1xVOC) - essentially cheaper than buying filters for my existing GE system!

As a bonus, it comes with a nicer faucet as well. Those who are considering RO system for drinking water, check out costo.ca.


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## BWI

if your still looking for a RO or RO/DI unit let us know!!! i will look after you!


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## bioload

Aquasafe hase two Aquarium systems:

http://www.aquasafecanada.com/aquarium.html

Aquarium II System $149.99
Aquarium II System Combo $271.99

I've been using for 4+ years.....no problems 0 TDS


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## Dax

Just added an RO system and the 4 gal tank puts out maybe 1.5 gal when full. Do you guys have the same problem?


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## Kweli

I cant speak for your system, but most storage tanks have pressurized air inside to ensure a stream.... It would be weird that 70% of your tank is air though?


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