# Got the ich



## MPreston (Nov 11, 2013)

Unfortunately as the title reads- I have notice ich in my display.
My Blue Hippo tang has it BAD, I feel bad for her. 
Ich is in the first stage (salt sprinkles)***

I have a few questions (pardon the newb-ness of them) but I would appreciate some help.

In the display currently I have:
Blue Hippo
2 Occ clowns
2 chromis 
1 yellow jawfish
crabs, snails, stars and a crap load of coral (including a tear drop clam)

After work I have plans to:
Get 2 20 gallon tanks from Greg_o
Home depot for a few PVC pieces (shelter)
Big Als for Garlic guard and odds and ends (heater, thermometer, etc)

Ok for the questions.
I will be doing the Hyposalinity method as I feel this is the best for stress.

- Do I need to have 2 20 gallons? My thoughts were, separate the clowns, the jawfish and the chromis while leaving the hippo to herself (only one showing signs of parasite)

- Do the tanks have to cycled for this method or it as simple as mixing up water to the same salinity and temp and start treatment?

- After I catch all of the fish (wish me luck) do I have to separate the live rock, corals and clam for the duration of the treatment (out of display)?

- Is it suggested that I take the opportunity to "clean" the tank. A good sandbed clean- vacuum, stir and sterilize the equipment etc?


If there is anything that I missed or if there is anyone out there that can chime in with tips and suggestions it would be greatly appreciated. 

This is the first time that I have been faced with the issue and I would like to ensure that it is the last. 

Thank you in advance.
Mike


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## corpusse (Jan 3, 2011)

Hypo is probably the most stressful treatment both on your fish and you.

2 Better options are to use both 20 gallon tanks for the tank transfer method. After the tank transfer method you can separate the fish and split them between the 2 20gallon tanks while you wait for your 72 day fishless period to be up. 

Treat them with copper in one or both of the 20 gallon tanks. This will involve a longer treatment of 30 days once you reach full dosage but since you have to keep your fish out for 72 days you have time for this as well. 

You do not need to cycle the tank for either method however if you're going to treat with copper you are going to have to watch your ammonia levels. Get an ammonia alert badge which is easier than constantly testing. If you do tank transfer 3 days isn't really enough time for ammonia to become toxic if you're not dumping food in like crazy given the bioload you describe. If you do copper treatment make sure to test the copper after water changes and carefully add the correct amount. If you do the tank transfer method once it's done you will have to be careful about ammonia and do a lot of water changes.

There is no reason to take everything else out of the tank. The only way to eliminate ich from them is to leave them fishless for 72 days. It may be a good time for you to clean stuff out but that's not going to effect you having ich. An easy option to catch all your fish is to drain the tank since they are all coming out then just put the water back in.


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## Mikeylikes (Nov 22, 2013)

I feel for you Mike. I had it a while back too but only my PBT had it. If they cannot fit in your lone 20 gallon then you may want to separate. But don't be fooled. I'm afraid all of your fish are carriers now and all will have to be removed and quarantined! 

Your main tank will have to be fish free for at least 10-12 weeks to be sure. ICH is a parasite that has a life cycle that needs fish as a host. Your invertebrates are okay. The cycle will need to be disrupted and not have a host to continue breeding. It will be in your sand and live rock so keep them where they are until the quarantine period is over. I'm afraid cleaning vacuuming the sandbed won't do you a lick of good. Patience is your medicine.

I did the hypo as will with cupramine (copper treatment). Unfortunately, my PBT didn't survive the ordeal.

Good luck !


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## fury165 (Aug 21, 2010)

If you search on RC for thread on TTM, you will see some folks using 5 gallon salt buckets for the initial procedures to save on cost and space. You can then use the 20 gallon for QT tanks while you leave your DT fallow. If you do the TTM copper is not required, as it is an alternative to the other two methods (Hypo and Copper). 

Good luck.


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## MPreston (Nov 11, 2013)

*TTM method*

So it looks like the consensuses is the TTM method is by far the best method- stress wise.

When reading up on it- looks like the Jawfish will not do too well with copper treatment and the side affects of chemically treating seem a bit harsh.

Luckily I have a sh** load of buckets and just bought a new bucket of salt.

So to confirm, the TTM method can be done in 5 gallon buckets? But how do a run a hang on the back filter with the side being round? or is it needed?
*** I know a power head is required but does the TTM method not require filter floss and a HOB?

I think what I will do, it the TTM method in the buckets until I feel confident that I can move them to the 20 gallon for the remainder of the "hold and observe". If I find that Margo (Blue hippo) will not fit in the bucket, I will move her to the 20 gallon for her treatment (just to be safe). I really like Margo and I know some will say- Blue hippos are easily available- not this one, she is part of the family and to see her with "fish chicken pocks" breaks my heart.

I hate to use this as a learning experience but at the end of the day, it is what it is- learn, adapt and overcome and not make the mistakes again.

Thanks for the help guys.

If anyone has any other details or suggestion, please feel free to chime in.
I have done my reading (I assure you of that) on Reef tank and Reef Central but sometimes, you have to ask the question your way.

Thanks 
Mike


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## fury165 (Aug 21, 2010)

Mike, from what I've read the HOB and power heads are not required. Besides two buckets/tanks/Rubbermaid containers used for the TTM, all that is required is a heater, an air stone and air pump for each buckets/tanks/Rubbermaid containers. No cycled or floss needed at this phase since phase requires *fresh* salt water. Ammonia shouldn't be a problem (depending on the bio load) within the 72 hour window for each phase... I noted that people do add a bit of prime on day 2 to mitigate any risk. 

HTH


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## fury165 (Aug 21, 2010)

this is the best thread I found on RC for TTM.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1996525

Oh and I forgot to add the usual PVC tees and elbows for hiding.


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## fesso clown (Nov 15, 2011)

Yes, no HOB for TTM. Only airstone and heater and container. You need to have 2 different heaters and airstones. Some people through the airstone tubing away between transfers. All equipement is cleaned and dried between transfers. 
The ICH is in the water. You can't transfer even a drop. 
One other thing I read was to make sure that your new water is mixed for 24 hours and aerated really really well before each transfer. 
Good luck. 
I just lost all my fish from Brook but there was ICH present as well. In a way I am glad I don't have to go through catching and treatment as callouss as that sounds.... 
I am going to use proper and severe QT protocol from now on. Like you said we learn, (usually the hard way) adapt and move on. 
Again, good luck!


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Cool method, totally makes sense. Will have to implement for any new fish in the future for sure.


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## MPreston (Nov 11, 2013)

*to dip or not to dip*

While doing the transfer between buckets, is it a good idea to dip or just transfer?


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## Mikeylikes (Nov 22, 2013)

fesso clown said:


> Yes, no HOB for TTM. Only airstone and heater and container. You need to have 2 different heaters and airstones. Some people through the airstone tubing away between transfers. All equipement is cleaned and dried between transfers.
> *The ICH is in the water. You can't transfer even a drop. *
> One other thing I read was to make sure that your new water is mixed for 24 hours and aerated really really well before each transfer.
> Good luck.
> ...


but you have to transfer the fish over and that will also come with some drops of water here and there ... no ??


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## MPreston (Nov 11, 2013)

*Update*

A few minutes ago I asked my soon to be wife Sheilagh to check on Margo (Hippo).
She sent me this picture.

All the visible trophont is off of here body- and she is eating like a pig and swimming against the current to exercise (like normal)

I know that this is far from over but at least I can take comfort to know that she is healthy enough to fight and isn't in as much pain.


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## Flexin5 (Nov 12, 2011)

i'm going to go against the grain of salt here (see what i did there? ) 

i, and a surprising amount of people who have been in the hobby for a long time who i've talked too have done the same thing; and that's to leave the fish in your DT. 

i had a huge outbreak of ich in my previous tank. my hippo who i've had for ages, going on 3 years now (and believe me i know what you mean about how they become family..weird huh?) got ich when the previous tank was started. and this imo, was a BAD outbreak of ich; hundreds of spots, everywhere, even on her eyeballs. i felt so bad. 

some, myself included, believe that the stress involved from taking an already infected fish, setting up a new QT tank, treatment, and then stress from transferring back into the DT will stress out the fish enough that another outbreak can happen. 

instead, what I did, (and i stress this is only what i did) was i soaked pellets. my formula for it was about two drops of tank water, about 5 drops of vitachem, and 2 drops of garlic xtreme extract. what that did was keep the fish eating...alot. 

shortly after not only my hippo tang (and clowns) get rid of the ich, but i was able to introduce many other, much more sensitive tangs to the tank with 0 signs of ich for over a year. powder blue, sailfin, clown tang, hippo tang and a orange shoulder tang all lived for a year plus without one sign of ich.


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## MPreston (Nov 11, 2013)

*Day one*

Update- Tang is still happy, all visible parasites have fallen off and she is still swimming, eating (like a pig) and "dancing" around with my clowns- looks a lot better and is a lot happier

I picked up some needed medication.
Vita- Chem and Garlic guard; going to start vitamin treatment tonight.

Printed the calendar and a make shift Excel notebook to document progress.

Here goes nothing.

Still have to get the QT cycled***


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## fesso clown (Nov 15, 2011)

Mikeylikes said:


> but you have to transfer the fish over and that will also come with some drops of water here and there ... no ??


The idea is to have "not a drop" it would be difficult to achieve but that's what to shoot for and you can get pretty close. MOst people use a plastic tuppaware strainer, not a net to catch the fish, then drain the water out, wipe it down and drop the fish in the other tank. The ich is in the water at the point of the transfer, not on the fish it's important minimize the chance of transferring ANY water at all.

I have not yet done TTM but I have been reading loads the last month or so. The thing I took away was to keep it simple and don't transfer any water.

When my tank is finished it's fallow period I will be employing TTM on every fish coming into the tank and maybe even a fallow qt tank for a 72 day QT of corals and frags.


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## MPreston (Nov 11, 2013)

Qt tank is all set up, got my water mixing up.
Let get this started.

Equipment:
20 gallon
Aquaclear hob
2 x 240 hydor's
150 w heater
Simple air pump and stone

Frag rack for incoming frags 

Will be picking up shelter- either PVC or something simple

Actions taken:

3 drops of Vita Chem on mixed seaweed, soaked, direct fed fish 

2 drops of Garlic guard on New life spectrum thera + pellets, soaked, direct fed fish.

So far so good


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## MPreston (Nov 11, 2013)

Picture of set up.
*** Very similar to the display- just not as much current ***


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## fury165 (Aug 21, 2010)

Put some egg crate on the top to prevent jumping.


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## MPreston (Nov 11, 2013)

10 4.
Once the tank water and shelter is in there I will look at some egg crate.

Thanks


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