# mixing



## camboy012406 (Jun 11, 2010)

what happen if I will mix the bee shrimp and crs shrimp anyone experience? what will the offsfring will look alike?


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## Shrimp_Hunter (Mar 13, 2011)

50/50 some red and white some black and white

edit to add 

I believe it would take 2 generations for the red colourations to be shown

because red is recessive and the black is a dominate gene


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## camboy012406 (Jun 11, 2010)

u mean cbs and crs. but bee shrimp is different


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## Shrimp_Hunter (Mar 13, 2011)

your babys would be F1's with the genetics of both parents CRS's and CBS's

to quote Silane on a different forum

"b be red recessive
B be black dominant (diamond/bee shrimp)

When you cross:

Rxb=Bb+Bb+Bb+Bb -> all are black

Bbxb=bb+Bb -> 50% are black, 50% are red

bxb=bb+bb+bb+bb -> all are red

Bb still appears as black because this individual has only one recessive allel but both recessive allel are necessary to show the red phenotype.

So you question, does crystal red shrimp cross crystal red shrimp will give diamond/bee (black), theoretically, it is not possible. "

the question was for if you mix CRS+CRS would you get a diamond/bee black

but the math part answers your question

here is the thread I gleaned this from
http://www.shrimpnow.com/forums/sho...al-Red-Shrimp-Crystal-Red-Shrimp-CRS-Diamonds


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

I have always found it extremely suspicious that the colouration of shrimp follow simple Mendelian genetics. It can't be that simple


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

where's the white?


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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

I don't have actual experience, but simple science says it would turn brown and become recessive again. There is a chance that few red would pop up. You are basically punching the reset button. Remember how we get red in the first place. It's by crossing 2 reds. Crossing it back with the orginal will only merge it back to it's natural brown colour. In nature, the red would have either be eaten or cross with a brown, hence becoming resessive again.

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## Kerohime (Jan 10, 2011)

I thought CBS and bee shrimp meant the same thing...

http://www.planetinverts.com/Bee Shrimp.html

CRS are a recessive type selectively bred from Bee shrimp right? =o

And I'm trying to make sense of the genetic explanation... if its simple Mendelian genetics, I dont understand how you would get just "b", shouldnt they have two recessive alleles? ie "bb"? If you draw out a punett square you would have Bb x Bb which would give you 25% homozygous dominants "BB" with a black phenotype, 50% heterozygous "Bb" with a black phenotype, and lastly 25% "bb" which would give you a red phenotype. 
Thus that cross would give you 75% black, and 25% red... not 50:50. 
And what is this Rxb thing? I'm assuming its BB x bb to give you 100% heterozygous Bb? O_O

Maybe I'm missing something, or there is codominance resulting in brown colours? but that doesnt seem so. Correct me if I'm wrong, my brain is on too much coffee right now. Because to me that has to be the most confusing explanation...


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## camboy012406 (Jun 11, 2010)

Kerohime said:


> I thought CBS and bee shrimp meant the same thing...
> 
> http://www.planetinverts.com/Bee Shrimp.html
> 
> no not the same thing.


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## camboy012406 (Jun 11, 2010)

I just confirmed in one of silane's thread that cbs and bumble or bee shrimp are not the same and they dont interbreed either.


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## SmokeSR (Jan 28, 2009)

Zebrapl3co said:


> Remember how we get red in the first place. It's by crossing 2 reds.


I don't believe this is true at all. To my knowledge, red actually came from the blacks. When breeding 2 reds together, their offspring will be red as well. But their origin is from the CBS.


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## Kerohime (Jan 10, 2011)

I really do think all this confusion is due to nomenclature.

Bee shrimp and Bumble bee shrimp are different species, this was actually discussed in another thread you started:
http://gtaaquaria.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21429

So please do not confuse *Bee shrimp with Bumble Bee shrimp.
*

When we are talking about BEE shrimp only:

A Japanese breeder bred *Bee shrimp* (not bumble bee shrimp), while breeding thousands of these Bee shrimp, he noticed a mutation in 1/1000 black bee shrimp there was a red one, the red bee shrimp. He just happened to patent the name CRYSTAL RED SHRIMP to that mutation, and I believe Crystal Black Shrimp was a name given to Bee shrimp afterwards.

In terms of the genetics... This is what I would guess:

Wild Type Bee shrimp:








Phenotype: Homozygous Dominant Black Bee
Genotype: BB

Mutant recessive RED bee shrimp mutant:








Phenotype: homozygous Recessive Red Bee
Genotype:bb

So for example, the guy had thousands of BB black bee shrimp, and he had one bb red mutant.

When you cross wild type and mutant (BB x bb) you get:
Phenotype: 100% Black bee shrimp
Genotype: 100% Bb Heterozygous for red

When you take cross Bb x Bb you get:

1. 
Phenotype: 25% Black Bee shrimp
Genotype: BB Homozygous Dominant
2.
Phenotype: 50% black bee shrimp
Genotype: Bb Heterozygous

3.
Phenotype: 25% Red bee shrimp
Genotype: bb Homozygous for recessive

So to answer the question what would happen if you bred a bee shrimp with a CRS, you are basically asking what would happen when you cross bb x BB, or bb xBb. They are supposed to be the *SAME species*, just a different mutation.

In the case of bb x Bb (crossing a heterozygous with a homozygous recessive) you would get:
1.
Phenotype: 50% Black Bees
Genetoype: Bb Heterozygous
2.
Phenotype:50% Red Bees
Genotype: bb Homozygous for recessive

I think this is what Silane was referring to. I dont know what the genotypes are like for Bee shrimp, I assume they are mostly heterozygous? The only way to really tell is to look at the offspring percentages.


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## bae (May 11, 2007)

Darkblade48 said:


> I have always found it extremely suspicious that the colouration of shrimp follow simple Mendelian genetics. It can't be that simple


I wouldn't expect *everything* to be simple Mendelian traits, but red vs black seems likely -- probably a single gene mutation in a gene involved in black pigment production. Pattern, ie. amount of white vs color, arrangement of white and color patches, and intensity of white and color I would expect to involve multiple genes, and be harder to sort out. Indeed, desirable patterns may not really be genetic at all, but rather something in our own evaluation. The classic example is Dalmation dogs -- show breeders try to meet the standard of even, symmetrical arrangement of spots, but this isn't under genetic control, so desirable pattern is just chance and can't be bred for.

Btw, the original wild shrimp are of the CBS type, not brown. I saw a YouTube video of some people catching them in a stream in Vietnam.


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## camboy012406 (Jun 11, 2010)

Kerohime said:


> I really do think all this confusion is due to nomenclature.
> 
> Bee shrimp and Bumble bee shrimp are different species, this was actually discussed in another thread you started:
> http://gtaaquaria.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21429
> ...


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## camboy012406 (Jun 11, 2010)

I mean the bumble and crs would not cross right? coz they are different species.I just want to confirm it.


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## camboy012406 (Jun 11, 2010)

these are the shrimps im talking about. if I mix them do they interbreed with crs/cbs? im still confused coz some says they interbreed and some dont.


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## Kerohime (Jan 10, 2011)

Those have a white nose, so I dont think they are Bumblebee shrimp... I think they are Bee shrimp and will breed with CRS. 

I could be wrong though.


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## camboy012406 (Jun 11, 2010)

these are mine and they have blue under their head. its not cbs/bee though. these one's has pale white


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## camboy012406 (Jun 11, 2010)

here closer pic


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