# Anyone have recent success with Neon Tetras?



## sunjwd (May 31, 2007)

Hello,

I have a 4 month cycled 10 gallon.
It has had 2 albino corys since February.
Nitrates are stable at 20ppm.
No nitrites nor ammonia.

I want to get Neon Tetras and am concerned that the forums are
full of warnings about Neon hardiness.

Has anyone in GTA had success buying Neon's? Where did you
get them, and what was your 30 day survival rate?

Aside: Big Al's occasionally has a tank of "wild caught" Neons, but
normally has tank bred Neons.


----------



## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

Yeah, the local breed neons are some how seriously wrong. I've never been able to keep them for more than 3 months.
I got my cardinals and tetras from:
Wongs Aquarium Phone: (416)461-5362
590 Gerrard Street East,_Toronto,_ON_M4M_1Y3
They do a very good job of acclimating their fish and I have a %90 survival rate for the first 3 months. A few will drop off due to this and that. But that is the only place where I buy my tetras that can live for more than a year in my tank.

*Never pay again for live sex! | Hot girls doing naughty stuff for free! | Chat for free!*


----------



## Ciddian (Mar 15, 2006)

i've also had bad luck with neons.. I went with cardinals myself and had excellent long term luck. 

a touch more money for them but really worth it


----------



## Tigercga (Mar 26, 2006)

Which store sells good quality of cardinal? Does Wongs carry good quality of cardinal? How much are they?


----------



## CRXSR (Mar 7, 2007)

sunjwd said:


> Aside: Big Al's occasionally has a tank of "wild caught" Neons, but
> normally has tank bred Neons.


Have you ever noticed that their "wild caught" neons, don't really look like neon tetras, but rather the green neon tetra (aka false neon tetra)??










instead of


----------



## sunjwd (May 31, 2007)

The one time I saw them (sold out pretty fast), they looked like Neons to me. I'm no expert. However, they seemed to look a bit more beat up than the tank raised Neons. Beat up as in some actually had scars.
They sold out within 2 weeks while I was waiting to cycle my tank and I haven't seen them since - visiting every week.


----------



## Ciddian (Mar 15, 2006)

I think PJ's at pickering still has some for pretty cheap.. i'll have to check when i go into work tommorow


----------



## KnaveTO (May 13, 2007)

If you are still looking for Neons there is a LFS near my work on Spadina that seemed to have some very nice neons just come in today. Downtown Pet Center at 280 Spadina, Toronto.


----------



## Pablo (Mar 27, 2006)

IMO the false neon tetra is actually a prettier fish, also hardier as it has not yet been inbred to the extent of innesi... I've never been able to keep store bought innesi alive for very long either- but had great results with false neons.


----------



## sunjwd (May 31, 2007)

Hi, where in GTA do you buy the false Neons? (aka Green Neon Tetra).
I live in Vaughan so ....
Anyhow, based on all the comments I'm thinking forget the Neons.
Anyone had success with White Cloud Mountain Minnows in GTA?
Please share where you got them.


----------



## MT-ED (Apr 4, 2006)

Whiteclouds do great in GTA water, but you have to rember that they're temperature preferances are lower than some other 'tropical' fish. Keeping them in elevated temperatures tends to speed up their metabolism and lead to premature death. A lot of the new Cyprinid species being imported now also do better in cooler tanks. Many of the newer Danionin species fit into this category.
I once kept wild-caught Cardinals for as much as 6 years while living in England in a place with very similar water parameters to the GTA. They are far more hardy than Neons IMO......and more beautiful.

Martin


----------



## sunjwd (May 31, 2007)

From what I have been reading, the upper range of WCMM preference overlaps with the lower range of Neon Tetra preference. (But well under Cardinal preference.)


----------



## sunjwd (May 31, 2007)

My 10G has been cycled since February. Amm=0, 'trites=0, 'trates=~10.
Temp is 74-76 F. The 2 albino corys have been there since Feb.
I saw a decent looking batch of neons at the Scaboro Town PJ's so I got
10. They are about 3/4" in length, if that.
If they all survive I'll give some away before they grow big.


----------



## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

Neons don't work in the 1 inch per gallon rules. So you don't need to give it away. All of them will do fine in your tank.

*Never pay again for live sex! | Hot girls doing naughty stuff for free! | Chat for free!*


----------



## sunjwd (May 31, 2007)

It has been just over 3 days since I brought the neons home.
All 10 are still alive. I fed them for the first time on day 2
and they were in a feeding frenzy for the Nutrifin Max flakes.
The eating and that they still have their colour are good signs to me.
They even grab the sinking pellets meant for my corys. They can
swim around with the pellets but not able to eat them due to the 
size. It looks pretty hilarious.

This 3 day mark is significant only in that PJ's fish warrantee 
is complete within 3 days.

Knock wood, so far so good.


----------



## Pablo (Mar 27, 2006)

Also Im sure you know this but for those who don't-

There are two species of fish sold as neons. One has whitish colored irises (the non black part of the eye) and the other has neon blue. The neon blue eyed ones are 'false neon tetra'. They are identical except that they are slightly hardier in most peoples experience and they also do not quite grow as large. 'true' neon tetra grow larger fatter and taller and generally do so faster than the false neons. You never see them marked one way or the other as theyre so small nobody bothers to look.


----------



## sunjwd (May 31, 2007)

Good reminder.

I did know about the false neon tetra, but never thought about it 
on this purchase. They are supposed to be rare but that's
a qualitative term. Thanks for the head's up.

I did a bit of google on this.

Neon Tetra: Paracheirodon innesi
To me these are distinct in their split blue and red lines.

False Neon Tetra: Paracheirodon simulans
(aka Green Neon Tetra)
On all the pictures I can find, these look like a cross between Cardinals and Neons.
It seems to have more blue and a lot less red in the body.

Unfortunately I can't find any reference about the eye whites.
All the pictures on the web show bluish eye whites on both
Neons and False Neons.

The ones I have look just like every Neon Tetra picture. The red part and the blue parts are about equal in size.
However, there is some doubt: some of them look a little green from certain angles, and green is one characteristic of False Neons.

Big picture, I don't really care as long as they live a long life.
(Originally I opted for the Neons over the Cardinals because Cardinals 
have very short 2 year life spans. Plus I wanted to keep the tank temperature lower.)


----------



## Pablo (Mar 27, 2006)

sunjwd said:


> Good reminder.
> 
> I did know about the false neon tetra, but never thought about it
> on this purchase. They are supposed to be rare but that's
> ...


Ummmmm I hate to break this to you but unless they revised it in the last two years Neons live about 500-700 days- or about two years.


----------



## sunjwd (May 31, 2007)

The problem with Internet info is that it is often not dated.
And they copy from each other.

However here are a couple of links:
10 years: http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/tetrafish/neontetra.php
5-10 years: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neon_tetra

Oh plus my cousin in law here in Toronto has a couple of Neon's that are 
over 4 years from the pet store.

I'm just going to have to see!


----------



## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

It's actually quite easy to tell the difference between a true neon and a false neon.
Just look at the tail. A true neon only have red touching the tail.
A false neon have blue and red touching the tail.

*Never pay again for live sex! | Hot girls doing naughty stuff for free! | Chat for free!*


----------



## sunjwd (May 31, 2007)

Good call on that hint. I checked mine and they all only have the red at the tail.
(They also look like every picture I can find on the web.)
I declare them to be neons.


----------



## Pablo (Mar 27, 2006)

Ten years??

A friend of mine had a neon in his school live for 2 years that was already a year old when he got it and we thought that was extreme. But five? Ten? Ten I absolutely refuse to believe no offense to that author- its just too small a fish its illogical to me it'd live that long. I can maybe believe five... but I have a hard time.


----------



## sunjwd (May 31, 2007)

Well it has just passed the 7 day mark and all 10 are still alive.
The colours are good and they eat aggressively.
The 7 day milestone marks the end of PJ's warranty.

Measured my water today. Amm=0, 'trites=0, 'trates=10-20
before the weekly 20% partial water change and gravel vaccuum.


----------



## sunjwd (May 31, 2007)

*The return of the curse?*

Today is day 10 post PJ's.
One of the 10 Neons had a white blotch (discoloration) on one side.
Even though the fish was eating and swimming normally, I saw from readings
on various forums that this is a symptom of Neon-type sickness. I culled
the fish.

A second fish seems to not be eating as well as the rest. For example, after a 2 min feeding, all the fish have comically big bellies, but this one does not. I'll keep a close eye. I was thinking of culling this one, but couldn't catch him. If he/she is this spunky, he deserves a chance.

One of the classic disease symptoms to look for in Neons is loss of colour so that aught to be easy.


----------



## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

8 out of 10 is still not bad. Thanks for keep up with the post. It interesting to see.

*Never pay again for live sex! | Hot girls doing naughty stuff for free! | Chat for free!*


----------



## sunjwd (May 31, 2007)

*3 weeks in*

Well today marks 3 weeks since I got the 10 neons from PJ's Scarboro Town.
I culled the one with a white splotch. There was one I wanted to cull cause it wasn't eating but I couldn't catch it. Well now it is eating well and I can no longer tell which one it was.

This means that I still have 9 neons. Feeling pretty good. They still have good colour. They eat like pigs and have huge bloated stomachs after a 2 min feed. Bloated to the extent some of them can't swim right for a few hours.

Attached are a few pictures.

Today I added a piece of lava rock (Big Al's Scarboro) with Java Moss tied to it.


----------



## Ciddian (Mar 15, 2006)

Thats wonderful to hear that they are doing well.. Sorry you did loose that one...

They look lovely


----------



## sunjwd (May 31, 2007)

*Quarantine period completed*

Well it is now 4 entire weeks since I brought the neons home and
the 9 are still with me. They eat with enthusiasm, the colours are
good, and I think that they have grown some.

I had been adding some aquarium salt (1/3 teaspoon per gallon) as part
of the quarantine and will probably either ease off or cut it out altogether.

The tank parameters are: amm 0, nitrites 0, nitrates 20ppm, 75 Celsius.
1 week ago I added a piece of lava with Java moss tied to it. I'm hoping that
in about 3 months when the moss starts to take it will make the nitrates lower.

I had a Big Al's 50 watt heater (it was cheap) and found that the 
temperature fluctuates 2-3 degrees. Plus the setting had to be adjusted
every week - for some reason it seems to creep up. 
Got a Visi-therm Stealth 50W this week to replace it. So far it seems to keep the temperature +- 1 degree. That's not bad for a 10 gallon.

Based on this experience I conclude that PJ's Scarborough Town Center 
is a decent local source for neon tetras.


----------



## sunjwd (May 31, 2007)

*Lost one*

One neon developed fin rot: the tail was partially gone. 
What's weird is that the fish still showed excellent colours.
I always had the impression neons would experience colour degradation when sick
Still swimming and eating but I culled it to be safe.

Fin rot is typically a side effect of unclean conditions.
We had a baby last month so I had neglected tank maintenance
for 4 weeks. My bad - hopefully this is the extent of the losses.

Now: 8 neon tetras from the 10 fish purchase months ago.


----------



## dekstr (Oct 23, 2007)

Hmm never knew neons were that hard to keep. It's surprising how stores sell them usually as beginner fish for such a low price, even though they are quite hard to keep. Definitely not a beginner fish. Maybe since they sell it at such low prices, they call it a beginner fish, so that when it dies within days/weeks/months, customers will have to return to the store to get more fish. And thus an endless cycle. 

Nice to hear most of your neons are doing fine though!


----------



## BillD (Jun 5, 2006)

Neons kept in a tank in living quarters, at regular room temps do not need a heater in the tank. They will probably do better without it. Advantages of cooler water include, higher oxygen content, less bacteria, and longer lifespan of the fish.


----------



## sunjwd (May 31, 2007)

I keep my tank at 74 F.
This is just higher than the room temperature in that room so I do have a heater.


----------



## sunjwd (May 31, 2007)

*Almost 1 year*

It is almost 1 year since I brought those 10 neons home from PJ's Scarborough Town Center. Here is an update.

I had to cull 2 this weekend. One of them was dropsy-ish and was swimming all puffer-like. Been like that for 2 months. The other has had what I call a mouth tumour. (I thought it was cauliflower mouth disease which doesn't spread much and heals itself. But it has been 3 months and it is growing so I am thinking tumour. Attached is a picture.)

I am down to 6 neons from the original 10. They are different sizes from "normal" to one chubby one, but all are almost exactly the same 1.25" including tail, 1" not including tail.

Of the 10 neons I got from PJ's, none have died in my tank, I've culled all 4 that are gone.

I have been feeding them Hikari micro pellet.


----------



## Katalyst (Jul 29, 2007)

I know someone who is breeding long fin neon's with success. They are stunning fish!


----------



## Katalyst (Jul 29, 2007)

sunjwd said:


> Anyone had success with White Cloud Mountain Minnows in GTA?
> Please share where you got them.


I'm chiming in again as I missed this, I have been pretty successful breeding my long finned white clouds, mine origionally came from Vancouver. Charlie Drew breeds white clouds as well as golds and is located in Burlington. I believe he was the first person in Canada to breed the gold version. I've seen them and they are lovely fish.


----------



## Tabatha (Dec 29, 2007)

Menagerie had locally bred Cardinal tetra not too long ago, I purchased 5 and they're all doing well.

I also have white clouds, I expected them to be very hardy but out of 8, I only have 3 left!


----------



## pat3612 (Jan 29, 2008)

I bought mine at walmart when I was a noob its been almost a year and I havent lost any even Pablo said they were very nice lol Pat


----------



## kweenshaker (Mar 11, 2006)

sunjwd said:


> Of the 10 neons I got from PJ's, none have died in my tank, I've culled all 4 that are gone.


Why don't you get a 5 or 10 gallon QT and try to help out any little guys that are potentially sick. I know some diseases can't be cured, but if you're not totally sure what it is, might as well give the little guys a fighting chance.


----------



## sunjwd (May 31, 2007)

I'm too much amateur to mess with medication that is not salt.

For these 2, I've let them be for a few months and they were getting worse.
I didn't see any value in letting them continue to suffer.
The one was having a hard time swimming upright - and this is a tetra. It sure wasn't eating.
The second (with the mouth tumour) was really skinny compared to the others, and the tumour was growing and large enough to include the eyes.

Oh, and really no additional time and space to buy/setup/maintain another tank.


----------



## sunjwd (May 31, 2007)

Quick report and recap:

Bought 10 neons from PJś Scarboro Town back in July, 2007.
Culled 4 thinking they were sick with NTD or some such -> in hindsight probably too
aggressive on that. People tell me NTD is really not that common.
1 fish did die in my tank. It had a kind of fin rot on the tail and just died one day.
I still have 5, now fully grown. 

I just got 9 wild caught Cardinals from a group buy (thanks Desjardo). They look really small compared to the full grown Neons. I am going to be much less aggressive about culling. It has been 7 days and I have all 9 still. Coloration is good.


----------



## sunjwd (May 31, 2007)

*Last update*

Since my last update, my 5 neons have all died one by one, at different times. 2 more grew mouth tumours over a couple of months that interfered with their eating. 1 had a growth on the side over a couple of months and die one day. 2 others just up and died one day, the last one in September.
Since there weren´t any symptoms of disease per se, I will chalk it up generally to age.

So all in all my neons lived just over 2 years in my tank.
A respected member from another forum asserted that in the past he has seen neons live 12 years. 
It might be stock and it might be my conditions were not ideal. In any case, it was a good experiment.


----------

