# Tank Crash - Learning Opportunity



## Cyberlord (Jul 12, 2016)

Hi Everyone,

I need to learn from my recent crash, so I am asking for constructive insight.

The beginning:

After a year of running my biggest tank (135Gallon - 72x18x24) in its current configuration it started to crash and I was losing my fish about 1 fish died every 4 days. The fish I had were pseudotropheus elongatus and three t-bar cichlids. I had 15 of different ages/sizes (2" to 4"). Plus one Syndontis catfish (5") Lots of rockery and about 3/4inches of standard aquarium gravel. Plastic plants, three filters, two heaters, seasoned mopani driftwood chunk. Temp at 25C. Everyone was happy and social activity looked balanced with no-one getting beat up etc.

In the months preceding the crash, all the fish were very active and not afraid when I came around and swarmed enthusiastically during feeding time.

Change in behaviour of my fish and deaths seemed to start after my last gravel vacuuming. After the last vacuuming their behaviour totally changed and they were always hiding and then the deaths started to occur.

The fish did not have any superficial symptoms of a disease. Finnage of the fish were not shredding or anything like that either. 

My reaction:
I maintain my tanks with weekly water changes (25%) and a more thorough gravel vacuuming once a month. The tank started crashing with a fish dying every few days after last month's thorough vacuuming. 

I tried to recover with filter cleaning in a rotation with 4-5 days in between before I cleaned the next one and increasing to twice a week water changes, but it didn't seem to help. I also started my UV sterilizer after the first death. 

After three weeks of attention without any improvement in fish behaviour I have now resorted to dismantling the whole tank, moving the remaining surviors to another established tank and will be restarting this tank over from scratch.

Additional details of how I do things:

I always used treated water to refill.
I do my best to match water temp and if I am off temp, I try to miss a little warmer rather than colder.
I tested the water and it never indicated any high ammonia, nitrates etc
The water looks super clear with no algae problem 
The filters had their sponges cleaned and floss replaced. I rinsed bio media in fish tank water. I only did one filter cleaning at a time with a four to five day gap in between.
Filters cleaned about every three months in rotation. 

The equipment:

Two Eheim 2217
One Fluval U4
Two air bubbler bars
Two 300W heaters

mopani is seasoned to the point it where it barely tints the water and is not visible unless you put the water into a stark white bucket

My own conclusion:

Stirring up the gravel this last time around must have released something toxic into the water. I have to vacuum more often to avoid having toxicity build up in the gravel.
I may want to clean my filters more often too(???)

I'm doing things pretty standard, so I don't know what I am missing. 

======================

If I left out any details that would help your analysis, let me know.
I will see if I have any tank pictures handy and will update the post with them.

I am running 5 other tanks and so far they seem perfectly fine but I don't want them to go through the same thing if I can help it.

Please share your experience and thoughts. Thanks in advance.


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

When you say "3/4inches of standard aquarium gravel", do you mean 3-4 inches or 3 quarters of an inch?

If it's the latter, there's no way that's enough of a substrate to hold anything toxic.

If it's the former, then it's pretty deep and could very well have developed sulfuric gases. I would suggest in the future to go no deeper than 2 inches if you don't keep live plants.

Also, did you try putting in some carbon?


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## Cyberlord (Jul 12, 2016)

solarz said:


> When you say "3/4inches of standard aquarium gravel", do you mean 3-4 inches or 3 quarters of an inch?
> 
> If it's the latter, there's no way that's enough of a substrate to hold anything toxic.
> 
> ...


3quarters of an inch of gravel. Yeah I keep the gravel to a minimum to try and avoid a lot of gunk build up. I have been trying bare bottom in a couple of tanks to see how they do. So far they have been stable and a bit easier to maintain too. Just no plants in them 

I did not try adding carbon.

My filters are setup with sponges, eheim mech and bio media. I only think of carbon when the water smells, but the smell was not particularly strong or distinctive in this case. I could have gone nose blind to it but I am sure my wife would have mentioned if she noticed something out of the ordinary. I will definitely try adding carbon in the future if I suspect things are deteriorating. Thanks for that tip.


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## tom g (Jul 8, 2009)

*fish deaths*

your pretty bang on your details of your fish tank , sounds like u are a good fish keeper . 
have u added any fish in this time that u describe ....
when u say u gravel vacuumed did u stir it all up . if u did I suspect u are correct , I did that once and it was pretty much the last time I gravel vac so aggressively basically what I would do is quarter the tank ..and each water change just stick the phython in and just do a section per water change ,no stiring just stick in the tube and let the stuff go up.
sucks but fish on , sounds like u have things figured out 
cheers 
tom


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## Cyberlord (Jul 12, 2016)

tom g said:


> your pretty bang on your details of your fish tank , sounds like u are a good fish keeper .
> have u added any fish in this time that u describe ....
> when u say u gravel vacuumed did u stir it all up . if u did I suspect u are correct , I did that once and it was pretty much the last time I gravel vac so aggressively basically what I would do is quarter the tank ..and each water change just stick the phython in and just do a section per water change ,no stiring just stick in the tube and let the stuff go up.
> sucks but fish on , sounds like u have things figured out
> ...


Thanks for commenting.

I did not add any fish during this period.

I was not purposely stirring things up, but I was doing more of a gravel cleaning than usual because I had time and I thought I would be more thorough this time around. Unfortunately it may have been the cause.

I do try to use well established methods in maintaining fish and aquariums, but these "mysterious" and sudden crashes are frustrating. Mainly I feel for the fish as they are not having fun anymore. 

At first I thought the fish were just overly freaked out or that my water was off, but after several weeks and no improvement, I decided to go drastic and pull the remaining fish out before I lost them all. Hopefully they will be stable in the other tank as I restart the big one.

Live and learn I suppose. And try try again


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

Cyberlord said:


> 3quarters of an inch of gravel. Yeah I keep the gravel to a minimum to try and avoid a lot of gunk build up. I have been trying bare bottom in a couple of tanks to see how they do. So far they have been stable and a bit easier to maintain too. Just no plants in them
> 
> I did not try adding carbon.
> 
> My filters are setup with sponges, eheim mech and bio media. I only think of carbon when the water smells, but the smell was not particularly strong or distinctive in this case. I could have gone nose blind to it but I am sure my wife would have mentioned if she noticed something out of the ordinary. I will definitely try adding carbon in the future if I suspect things are deteriorating. Thanks for that tip.


In that case, I really doubt it was a toxic build up in the substrate.

It could be due to some details that you overlooked, and it could be some seemingly harmless little thing that you didn't even think of, or maybe even something happened that you weren't aware of.

For example, I once read about someone saying his tank crashed after a water change. Turned out his mom was helping him and she had just used lotion on her hands.


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## tom g (Jul 8, 2009)

*Tank crash*

As u say live and learn...don't beat yourself up..we have all had ups and downs ...
I once rushed a water change on my first saltwater tank
Before I was going away for the weekend .
Fig I wound do a water change .
Well I came home to house stinking of death
I lost everything...fish corals ...I must admit 
I couldn't tell you what the fault was at that time I blamed myself for the fault I didn't have the details of what could of went wrong ... 
Don't rush anything ... if u have to rush it don't do it .. 
Cheers 
Tom


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## TBemba (Jan 11, 2010)

Here is my thoughts, you changed too much water and disturbed the gravel causing ditrius into the water column. But the issue was maybe the water. 
How do you do your water changes?
Has the water been sitting out for a few days? 
Did you treated the water with prime?
Was the temp of the water the same?

Even the most seasoned hobbyist has this happen from time to time and I have sat through a lecturer of the municipal water system in the city. When ever there's a large storm or after the winter with all the run off going into the wastewater system they often will shock the system to kill the influx of nasties when these events occur.

If you happen to be unlucky and do a large water change without treating the water you have this all your fish dying.

Many hobbyists then take extra precautions and get water containers and add the water a week before the water change and with some prime to prevent chloromines in the water. Then some go a step further and put a heater and or a power head in the storage.

I used to change 25% a week straight from the tap with a python hose I would run the water to mix the temp and then squirt in a bit of prime and filler up. Not recommended by most.

Golden rule really with this hobby is everything you do do it consistently. If you change water once a week or month just don't change it up.
With more than one filter you alternate between cleanings one at one water change then the other the following water change. This makes sure you have bacteria in the system all the time. Als you have extra bacteria to help someone out to start a new tank.

I used to be able to set up a new tank of equal size in a day and add the fish the next day and have no losses.

Any way don't let it get you down, also if you don't go to aquarium auctions put on then you are missing out.


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## Cyberlord (Jul 12, 2016)

TBemba said:


> Here is my thoughts, you changed too much water and disturbed the gravel causing ditrius into the water column. But the issue was maybe the water.
> How do you do your water changes?
> Has the water been sitting out for a few days?
> Did you treated the water with prime?
> ...


Yes I agree, the consistent routine is definitely a safer way to maintain things. I vacuum with a python and refill with buckets pouring water back in after treating. I treat my water with the conditioner from Big Als in 5 gal buckets.

I may try prepping the water in a large 20gal bucket to let the conditioning have time to mix and settle the water chemistry.

For the temp check, I leave a thermometer in the refill bucket. I usually get it within 3 degrees C.

Dirt kicking up is my suspicion too. This last time I definitely did a bit more vacuuming than normal and moved the plastic plants a bit when vacuuming around their bases. I didn't lift them out but did shove them over.

I am definitely going to the DRAS auction next week 

Thanks for the insight and comments


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## Cyberlord (Jul 12, 2016)

*Update on evacuated fish*

Fish that were evacuated have been doing well in their vacation home. It appears a couple of the t-bars have paired up too 

The big tank is still under renovation. I took the opportunity to refurbish the silicone seal on one end of the tank as it was looking weathered.

Will post the fresh new setup when it is done.


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## TBemba (Jan 11, 2010)

Cyberlord said:


> Fish that were evacuated have been doing well in their vacation home. It appears a couple of the t-bars have paired up too
> 
> The big tank is still under renovation. I took the opportunity to refurbish the silicone seal on one end of the tank as it was looking weathered.
> 
> Will post the fresh new setup when it is done.


Sounds great!


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## Cyberlord (Jul 12, 2016)

*Going bare!*

Emptied, cleaned, resealed.
Refilled, filtering and rocks in place...

Now just exercising willpower to wait a bit more before moving my frontosas


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## boyohboy (Mar 21, 2017)

Where exact did the crash/death happen? Perhaps just one of those bad water episode due to spring weather change.


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## Cyberlord (Jul 12, 2016)

boyohboy said:


> Where exact did the crash/death happen? Perhaps just one of those bad water episode due to spring weather change.


The crash happened after a thorough gravel vacuuming and water change. The cleaning was a bit more than my usual and suspect that I stirred things up to much. But is all good. The survivors are still in their second home and seem to be quite happy and going about their business. Nicely active and eating heartily. 

I actually moved my frontosa colony to the big tank now so they can grow out fully. They are happy too 
They hide with the lights on, so I will have to post a picture later when they get used to it and are less camera shy.


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## bruce845 (Mar 9, 2015)

I had a friends tank that crashed, he investigated everything thoroughly on his side......turns out it was his sister spraying the room with air freshener.


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## Cyberlord (Jul 12, 2016)

bruce845 said:


> I had a friends tank that crashed, he investigated everything thoroughly on his side......turns out it was his sister spraying the room with air freshener.


Yeah I heard stories like that too. In my case, my tanks are isolated in the basement and no one was doing anything like that. Wife won't go down there now without me around cuz it is full of my things


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