# Complete rip off for Axolotls



## JoshOohAh

After endless searching I have found 1 store that happens to have them. I was so excited but that smile turned into a frown when I saw the price. Brace yourself...$400 (each) !!!!!!! Now this is insane since I would like to buy atleast 4. On American dealer sites they have ranged from 30-70$ for a full grown but these are juves. I understand they are extremely rare in the GTA and are endangered but that's almost 10x the price (avg price). So my best bet is to negotiate but I wouldn't have the slightest clue on how to prove my point to these people. It's not a very prestigious store but I assume their not idiots. 


What I'm really asking is some advice to explain to these people there prices are outrageous and to get some sort of deal since I'm buying 4. 

I was thinking 100$ would be preferred but 150$ at the most because then so would just feel completely ripped off.


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## bigfishy

JoshOohAh said:


> After endless searching I have found 1 store that happens to have them. I was so excited but that smile turned into a frown when I saw the price. Brace yourself...$400 (each) !!!!!!! Now this is insane since I would like to buy atleast 4. On American dealer sites they have ranged from 30-70$ for a full grown but these are juves. I understand they are extremely rare in the GTA and are endangered but that's almost 10x the price (avg price). So my best bet is to negotiate but I wouldn't have the slightest clue on how to prove my point to these people. It's not a very prestigious store but I assume their not idiots.
> 
> What I'm really asking is some advice to explain to these people there prices are outrageous and to get some sort of deal since I'm buying 4.
> 
> I was thinking 100$ would be preferred but 150$ at the most because then so would just feel completely ripped off.


Kijiji... GTA...

sell them for $150 each 

http://toronto.kijiji.ca/c-pets-oth...olotl-Ambystoma-Andersonii-W0QQAdIdZ212996435


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## JoshOohAh

bigfishy said:


> Kijiji... GTA...
> 
> sell them for $150 each
> 
> http://toronto.kijiji.ca/c-pets-oth...olotl-Ambystoma-Andersonii-W0QQAdIdZ212996435


THANK YOU SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO MUCH!!!! I msged him I just hope he didn't sell them yet.


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## sugarglidder

the fish place in new york state sells them the last time I was there for $30. they are not rare, just some companies will not touch them as they are not that nice to look at. I was thinking of breeding them myself. pete mang can get anything!! lol


good luck

thanks

john


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## JoshOohAh

sugarglidder said:


> the fish place in new york state sells them the last time I was there for $30. they are not rare, just some companies will not touch them as they are not that nice to look at. I was thinking of breeding them myself. pete mang can get anything!! lol
> 
> good luck
> 
> thanks
> 
> john


Pete Mang? Could you provide me with a link where I can contact this guy


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## sugarglidder

here is his aquabid name!! and link!! I see him at the shows in the states all the time. he is a great guy.

http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?disp&viewseller&Lotsoffish

thanks

john


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## JoshOohAh

sugarglidder said:


> here is his aquabid name!! and link
> 
> http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?disp&viewseller&Lotsoffish
> 
> thanks
> 
> john


Appreciate it.


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## Guest

sugarglidder said:


> here is his aquabid name!! and link!! I see him at the shows in the states all the time. he is a great guy.
> 
> http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?disp&viewseller&Lotsoffish
> 
> thanks
> 
> john


he's in the US... Axolotl's are CITES...bringing into Canada without permits is smuggling and will result in a fine and in some cases jail time. I doubt this guy will acquire CITES permits for a couple Axolotl's for someone in Canada.

CITES permits are about $85 US which can take up to six weeks for him to get. He also must get the USFWS export papers which cost about $100 US.


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## bigfishy

h_s said:


> he's in the US... Axolotl's are CITES...bringing into Canada without permits is smuggling and will result in a fine and in some cases jail time. I doubt this guy will acquire CITES permits for a couple Axolotl's for someone in Canada.
> 
> CITES permits are about $85 US which can take up to six weeks for him to get. He also must get the USFWS export papers which cost about $100 US.


$85 for permit + $100 exporting papers + $30 Axolotls + tax + importing papers + 50% to 100% mark up for the store = $300 - $400

That $400 Axolotls you have seen in your lfs isn't so crazy in price afterall.


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## sugarglidder

you can bring in the albino ones. they are not CITIES!!! as they are captive bred only.

thanks

john



h_s said:


> he's in the US... Axolotl's are CITES...bringing into Canada without permits is smuggling and will result in a fine and in some cases jail time. I doubt this guy will acquire CITES permits for a couple Axolotl's for someone in Canada.
> 
> CITES permits are about $85 US which can take up to six weeks for him to get. He also must get the USFWS export papers which cost about $100 US.


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## Guest

bigfishy said:


> $85 for permit + $100 exporting papers + $30 Axolotls + tax + importing papers + 50% to 100% mark up for the store = $300 - $400
> 
> That $400 Axolotls you have seen in your lfs isn't so crazy in price afterall.


.... but if the store imports from Europe, pays 12 Euros for permits plus all the other costs (shipping, box charge, airport charge, vet check) AND imports enough of them then they sell for about $45 each (about a year ago)...

I guess I should be marking them up a lot more than I have been.

If you are that desperate for Axolotl's than you deserve to pay $150 a piece for them.. but if you wait till mid September then you will pay a lot less.


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## Guest

sugarglidder said:


> you can bring in the albino ones. they are not CITIES!!! as they are captive bred only.
> 
> thanks
> 
> john


that's not true... maybe you should call CWS for clarification because I have spoken to them about an upcoming shipment from Germany and they told me there are no exemptions for colour morphs. All Ambystoma mexicanum no matter what the source are CITES and require permits doesn't matter on the colour.

Being captive bred doesn't exempt them from permits.

True Axolotls are Ambystoma mexicanum. They are Appendix II no matter if they are captive bred. All Axolotl's available are captive bred. Wild Axolotls haven't been exported from Mexico in well over twenty years.

The last import I had for Axolotl's was a little over 14 months ago from Germany and Canada Border Services and CWS were very strict with counting how many were actual in the shipping containers

http://www.ec.gc.ca/cites/default.asp?lang=En&n=7E56589B-1

http://cites.org/eng/app/appendices.shtml


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## vaporize

Harold is right, if a species is on CITES, it does not matter whether it is captive bred or wild caught. Seahorses and certain arrowana are great examples of that. Coloration, shape, look & feel doesn't matter as long as the species name is listed on CITES.

That is the reason why we cannot get alot of the captive bred seahorses from US (without CITES permit); in fact for certain things, you might not even able to get an original CITES appendix II export permit easily (speaking for captive bred stuff) especially the species not naturally occurring in that country. Same speaks for leafy sea dragons LOL ... but those are only legally available c.b. with CITES.


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## sugarglidder

then thats good I didnt bring them in with me last trip!! lol as I dont need that can of worms over my head

thanks for the info

john


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## vaporize

OMG these things are really UGLYYYYYYY (I have no idea what Axolotls is ... )


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## sugarglidder

LOL I bred them for a while. just something else to add to my already bred list!! lol



thanks

john


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## JoshOohAh

bigfishy said:


> $85 for permit + $100 exporting papers + $30 Axolotls + tax + importing papers + 50% to 100% mark up for the store = $300 - $400
> 
> That $400 Axolotls you have seen in your lfs isn't so crazy in price afterall.


Yea but it you put it into perspective you don't need to get all the permits for each Axolotl once you have it you don't need to pay again. So I shouldn't be the one who suffers


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## JoshOohAh

h_s said:


> If you are that desperate for Axolotl's than you deserve to pay $150 a piece for them.. but if you wait till mid September then you will pay a lot less.


Why mid September?


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## Guest

JoshOohAh said:


> Why mid September?


A shipment should be arriving at the Menagerie sometime in mid-September. We usually get 15 - 20 but will probably be getting upwards to 50 this time.


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## JoshOohAh

h_s said:


> A shipment should be arriving at the Menagerie sometime in mid-September. We usually get 15 - 20 but will probably be getting upwards to 50 this time.


OH really? Because I called on Thursday and the person I spoke to said he wasn't sure if they were ever going to get them.

Any idea the price?


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## Guest

JoshOohAh said:


> Yea but it you put it into perspective you don't need to get all the permits for each Axolotl once you have it you don't need to pay again. So I shouldn't be the one who suffers


The importer be it a store or otherwise must pay for permits/documents etc for each shipment they receive of animals that are CITES. The store/importer is not going to absorb these costs. They will pass them on in the price.

A store can sell things for what ever they want. If they have customers willing to pay that much for an axolotl then why shouldn't they charge that much. It's supply and demand and whatever the market will bear.


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## Guest

JoshOohAh said:


> OH really? Because I called on Thursday and the person I spoke to said he wasn't sure if they were ever going to get them.
> 
> Any idea the price?


Sorry, they misinformed you. We did have an issue with one exporter not being able to supply permits but this has been rectified.

$45-$50


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## JoshOohAh

h_s said:


> Sorry, they misinformed you. We did have an issue with one exporter not being able to supply permits but this has been rectified.
> 
> $45-$50


Beatiful!! On that note I will defiantly wait.

Also could you provide me with the store number so I can save it to my phone contacts.


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## Guest

JoshOohAh said:


> Beatiful!! On that note I will defiantly wait.
> 
> Also could you provide me with the store number so I can save it to my phone contacts.


http://www.menageriepetshop.com/contact-us.html


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## JoshOohAh

h_s said:


> http://www.menageriepetshop.com/contact-us.html


You wouldn't happen to know if their all Albino at the moment?

Edit: Thanks for link as well. I bookmarked on browser and saved number to my phone


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## Guest

JoshOohAh said:


> You wouldn't happen to know if their all Albino at the moment?
> 
> Edit: Thanks for link as well. I bookmarked on browser and saved number to my phone


There should be at least three morphs. Normal, Albino and Marbled (blotched). There is a interesting newer morph called Copper that have been showing up on German exporter lists but not sure if we can get that one. I haven't seen a picture of that one yet.


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## JoshOohAh

h_s said:


> There should be at least three morphs. Normal, Albino and Marbled (blotched). There is a interesting newer morph called Copper that have been showing up on German exporter lists but not sure if we can get that one. I haven't seen a picture of that one yet.


WOW this is more than worth the wait guess it gives me time to make sure my tank is PERFECT.

In the meantime *twirls thumbs waiting *


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## wtac

I agree w/h_s as well.

Back in 1997, I was in HK for a month prior to the handover back to China and rescued a bunch of tortoises from a food market. My great aunt and aunt, whom are both vegetarians are caring for them while I have been away. Since then, they have laid eggs and hatched and it's pretty much impossible for me to bring them over to Canada.



h_s said:


> that's not true... maybe you should call CWS for clarification because I have spoken to them about an upcoming shipment from Germany and they told me there are no exemptions for colour morphs. All Ambystoma mexicanum no matter what the source are CITES and require permits doesn't matter on the colour.
> 
> Being captive bred doesn't exempt them from permits.
> 
> True Axolotls are Ambystoma mexicanum. They are Appendix II no matter if they are captive bred. All Axolotl's available are captive bred. Wild Axolotls haven't been exported from Mexico in well over twenty years.
> 
> The last import I had for Axolotl's was a little over 14 months ago from Germany and Canada Border Services and CWS were very strict with counting how many were actual in the shipping containers
> 
> http://www.ec.gc.ca/cites/default.asp?lang=En&n=7E56589B-1
> 
> http://cites.org/eng/app/appendices.shtml


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## bigfishy

Just to let you know

Big Als Scarborough bought them in @ $29.99 each

They have normal, white and golden coloration!

Good Luck!


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## JoshOohAh

bigfishy said:


> Just to let you know
> 
> Big Als Scarborough bought them in @ $29.99 each
> 
> They have normal, white and golden coloration!
> 
> Good Luck!


Thanks for the update and revival of the thread! The gold are beautiful but I gave them a call today and they didn't have the them. Either way the other two are still awesome!


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## characinfan

I know this is totally off topic, but I always thought that "Albino Axolotl" would be a great name for a band.


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## Chris S

Good name for a spelling B contest too...


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## killieman

There are several colour morphs:
Wild type
leucistic-white with black eyes
albino-pink eyes
gold albino
piebald-this maybe known as marbled also
harliquin-orange and black patches on a white body

Theres also another one, goes by 3 letters but I cant remember what it is off hand, looks like a wild type with neon green eyes and highlights. I've been told that if you hold a blacklight over it it glows. I have a pic, hopefully i can send it.

I had a pair of wild type 3 years ago that I bought in an auction that came from the Niagara falls aquarium. They bred on numerous occasions and i raised wild type and gold albinos from this pair.

Last time I was at The Fish Place about a year ago they had 4-5 inchers for about $12.99. Wish I had them again!

Gary


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## killieman

GFP means "Green Flourescent Protein".
Gary


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## ChuckRum

joshoohah said:


> after endless searching i have found 1 store that happens to have them. I was so excited but that smile turned into a frown when i saw the price. Brace yourself...$400 (each) !!!!!!! Now this is insane since i would like to buy atleast 4. On american dealer sites they have ranged from 30-70$ for a full grown but these are juves. I understand they are extremely rare in the gta and are endangered but that's almost 10x the price (avg price). So my best bet is to negotiate but i wouldn't have the slightest clue on how to prove my point to these people. It's not a very prestigious store but i assume their not idiots.
> 
> What i'm really asking is some advice to explain to these people there prices are outrageous and to get some sort of deal since i'm buying 4.
> 
> I was thinking 100$ would be preferred but 150$ at the most because then so would just feel completely ripped off.


pete manng!


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## BettaBeats

menagerie has some in, very cute little guys! $45 for a pair
if you don't get them then I will look forward to seeing them next time I'm in the store. neat little creatures.


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## ChuckRum

BettaBeats said:


> menagerie has some in, very cute little guys! $45 for a pair
> if you don't get them then I will look forward to seeing them next time I'm in the store. neat little creatures.


sickk!!.. im looking for 2 more actually.. do you know what colour they are?..anddo you think theyll still be there this weekend?


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## BettaBeats

check back on one of these pages, harold from menagerie (his gta name is h_s) posted the contact for the store. ask them,! they are super friendly


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## Guest

ChuckRum said:


> sickk!!.. im looking for 2 more actually.. do you know what colour they are?..anddo you think theyll still be there this weekend?


Just normal morphs (natural colour) . There should be enough for the weekend.


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## bcarlos

This is an ancient post, but thought I'd chime in on the CITES status of the Axolotl. This is a CITES class II listed species, which means a CITES import permit is not required. An export permit is required-- but this responsibility is entirely on the exporter and not necessary for you as the importer/buyer. It should add very little to the final cost of this species.


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## 3020

Just gonna add that big al's Vaughan is selling some albino and brown axolotls for $24 each if I remember correctly.


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## ChuckRum

3020 said:


> Just gonna add that big al's Vaughan is selling some albino and brown axolotls for $24 each if I remember correctly.


was there yesterday.. didnt see any


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## Joeee

Did anyone find any axolotls that look like mudkips? My friend wants one...

http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2009/10/10/128996625166513151.jpg

(It's sad that I'm being completely serious, he's prepared his tank since Feb. and added liquid ammonia ever since but has never actually looked for one)


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## 3020

ChuckRum said:


> was there yesterday.. didnt see any


I was there 5 hours ago so maybe check again (It's in the back in front of the feeder minnows and gold fish). they also seemed to have finally restocked their plants.


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## 3020

Joeee said:


> Did anyone find any axolotls that look like mudkips? My friend wants one...
> 
> http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2009/10/10/128996625166513151.jpg
> 
> (It's sad that I'm being completely serious, he's prepared his tank since Feb. and added liquid ammonia ever since but has never actually looked for one)


I'm no expert but I's gonna say its shopped since thats the only image I have ever seen of a blue axolotl.


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## Joeee

3020 said:


> I'm no expert but I's gonna say its shopped since thats the only image I have ever seen of a blue axolotl.


I figured so as well, as I just found the original image...
http://www.shamoussa.net/files/images/axolotl.jpg

If he uses blue substrate with it, will the reflection off the blue substrate make it appear as a blue axolotl? Maybe even add a blue background?


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## Hunglikeafruitbat

I just got my first two Axolotls recently from Menagerie and would avoid them at this point or just wait for the next shipment to come in.

They are not being cared for properly and will die on you likely.

My first issue is how they were shipped from Europe, they came in together instead of in their own containers. Second they were housed together, despite the fact that they are cannibals at that size/age. This lead to very ugly and scared little axies with virtually no gills and missing limbs. These parts will grow back but it still not good for them, especially at their size/age.

Third, they are being kept on stones, STONES ARE A NO NO with Axolotls. If it is smaller than their head, they can swallow it and they will. This will cause an impaction many times or can cause (as silly as it sounds) anorexia that leads to death. BOTH of my axies came with very large pieces of that tan coloured stone they are on at the store and I had to help one regurg the stone by going in with a sewing needle through the gills at the back of the head to help force it out the mouth.

Fourth, they are being kept with fish, who nibble at their gills, and are being kept in too high of a temperature. Safe temps for these guys are between 16 and 24 c , failure to provide proper water conditions can cause axies to morph and become land borne, this is very stressful and bad for them.

My concerns about the care of them was brought to the attention of Micheal (owner) and Harold (fish manager) and nothing has been done to rectify it. The ones left in the tank that have now been reduced to $45 a pair, are dangerously skinny and beyond saving in my opinion.

Not only have I voiced my concerns and provided solid advice, but they are presently selling a copy of Reptiles magazine that includes a care guide written by the leading U.S. authority on Axolotls and the founder of caudata.org axolotl.org among other things.

Axolotls are CITES appendix II and you are NEVER going to get away with $85 in fees like stated before. I will purchasing from an order coming in from the U.S. and I know for a fact that the CITES and other fees amounted to over $600. This is not due to the size of the order, it would be roughly the same regardless of how many you are getting. The only thing that effects is the shipping fees, due the the increased weight and boxes.

For those interested in healthy, breeder quality animals I will post here on how my orders are going and put people in touch with sellers.

Some food for though, A. Andersoni have no CITES classification and so have much cheaper importing fees and are much easier to get in small numbers as a result. They look almost identical to a Wild Type Axolotl, but with more striking and contrasting markings and fuller gills. Micheal Shrom in U.S. would be my first choice, however there are some available in B.C. from a private breeder for $70 each.

This is a pic of one of M. Shromm's breeder Andersoni. His animals are top shelf.










Mat.


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## Joeee

Hunglikeafruitbat said:


> I just got my first two Axolotls recently from Menagerie and would avoid them at this point or just wait for the next shipment to come in.
> 
> They are not being cared for properly and will die on you likely.
> 
> My first issue is how they were shipped from Europe, they came in together instead of in their own containers. Second they were housed together, despite the fact that they are cannibals at that size/age. This lead to very ugly and scared little axies with virtually no gills and missing limbs. These parts will grow back but it still not good for them, especially at their size/age.
> 
> Third, they are being kept on stones, STONES ARE A NO NO with Axolotls. If it is smaller than their head, they can swallow it and they will. This will cause an impaction many times or can cause (as silly as it sounds) anorexia that leads to death. BOTH of my axies came with very large pieces of that tan coloured stone they are on at the store and I had to help one regurg the stone by going in with a sewing needle through the gills at the back of the head to help force it out the mouth.
> 
> Fourth, they are being kept with fish, who nibble at their gills, and are being kept in too high of a temperature. Safe temps for these guys are between 16 and 24 c , failure to provide proper water conditions can cause axies to morph and become land borne, this is very stressful and bad for them.
> 
> My concerns about the care of them was brought to the attention of Micheal (owner) and Harold (fish manager) and nothing has been done to rectify it. The ones left in the tank that have now been reduced to $45 a pair, are dangerously skinny and beyond saving in my opinion.
> 
> Not only have I voiced my concerns and provided solid advice, but they are presently selling a copy of Reptiles magazine that includes a care guide written by the leading U.S. authority on Axolotls and the founder of caudata.org axolotl.org among other things.
> 
> Axolotls are CITES appendix II and you are NEVER going to get away with $85 in fees like stated before. I will purchasing from an order coming in from the U.S. and I know for a fact that the CITES and other fees amounted to over $600. This is not due to the size of the order, it would be roughly the same regardless of how many you are getting. The only thing that effects is the shipping fees, due the the increased weight and boxes.
> 
> For those interested in healthy, breeder quality animals I will post here on how my orders are going and put people in touch with sellers.
> 
> Some food for though, A. Andersoni have no CITES classification and so have much cheaper importing fees and are much easier to get in small numbers as a result. They look almost identical to a Wild Type Axolotl, but with more striking and contrasting markings and fuller gills. Micheal Shrom in U.S. would be my first choice, however there are some available in B.C. from a private breeder for $70 each.
> 
> Mat.


When I was there about five and a half hours ago, they looked healthy. I have very limited knowledge in axolotls and reptiles in general. However, there was this one which seemed to be stuck in the filter (the back of it's head, opposite side of the head from the chin, seemed to be stuck). I thought nothing of it as it may just have been trying to find food and I looked at it for only a moment.

However, as of 6:00PM today, at closing, I was not aware of any axoltol pairs for $45. There were only the ones which were $24.99 each.I also do not recall seeing any fish in there (maybe axolotls ate them?).

Could you provide a list of breeders? My friend is still looking for an axolotl.
It's also horrible that you had to do such a thing to your axolotl, hopefully no one else needs to do the same.


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## Hunglikeafruitbat

Joeee said:


> When I was there about five and a half hours ago, they looked healthy. I have very limited knowledge in axolotls and reptiles in general. However, there was this one which seemed to be stuck in the filter (the back of it's head, opposite side of the head from the chin, seemed to be stuck). I thought nothing of it as it may just have been trying to find food and I looked at it for only a moment.
> 
> However, as of 6:00PM today, at closing, I was not aware of any axoltol pairs for $45. There were only the ones which were $24.99 each.I also do not recall seeing any fish in there (maybe axolotls ate them?).
> 
> Could you provide a list of breeders? My friend is still looking for an axolotl.
> It's also horrible that you had to do such a thing to your axolotl, hopefully no one else needs to do the same.


Well you can compare these recent shots with the ones you saw today. I think you'll notice how much fuller the gills and bellies are. These are still not as full as they should be and will still need another week or so to fully regenerate. I forgot to also mention that I'm dealing with fungus in one of them, which you can see in the overhead pic.

I cannot provide a list of breeders as I only have contact info for one Canadian breeder right now and he won't ship out of New Brunswick. I am ordering a few from a person in B.C. (I'll ask him to stop by and join the discussion or give permission for me to give his info out) when they are old enough and like I mentioned before there is an order of around 300 coming in from the U.S. soon. That order will be received by J&J reptiles http://www.jjreptiles.ca/ but there really is no reason to contact them yet. They will simply tell you they are waiting on the exporter to make final conformation on whats in the order before they start talking availability and price with customers. I'm in contact with both parties and will post here when I have more info.

Menagerie will be getting another order in about a month and a half that should have some colour variety this time, but I would really recommend getting them on day one and choosing the biggest and healthiest looking. Menageries order is almost certainly coming from the same European supplier as Big Als (although they won't confirm this to me) so they should probably have some more at that time as well, but don't quote me.

There is one other private collector who has recently or is about to receive an order of 60 or so but I am still waiting to hear back from them. I'll post something here or ask them to stop by when the time comes.

This shot shows the gill growth since I got them...when I brought them home they had one third of what you see here at best.










This is how fat they should be, as fat in the belly as they are wide in the head. I picked two of the biggest at the time and when going back even two days later the size difference was drastic. This also shows the fungus I've been dealing with, partially due to the water being too warm (theirs not mine). That depression it's left side where the fungus is, is the result of a massive bite injury that has been regenerating slowly. This happened because they were not shipped in individual containers.










And just because it's a cute shot....










Mat.


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## acropora1981

http://toronto.kijiji.ca/c-pets-other-pets-for-sale-axolotls-for-sale-W0QQAdIdZ245078098


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## Hunglikeafruitbat

acropora1981 said:


> http://toronto.kijiji.ca/c-pets-other-pets-for-sale-axolotls-for-sale-W0QQAdIdZ245078098


Sounds like someone stocked up from Big Als and is now trying to make a profit on $50 Axies. If I'm wrong and someone has taken the time to breed some of their own, congrats and I apologize for the speculation but...$200 for a Leucistic? Insanity, they will be available for no more than $80 soon. I would consider paying $300 or so for a Harlequin but that is only because it is the rarest color morph in the breed and almost unheard of in Canada..... Leucistics may as well be called The New Wild Type....everyone has 'em.

I personally wouldn't bother with this and just wait, but it is an option I guess for folks who don't mind paying 250% over retail.

Mat.


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## acropora1981

lol sorry, 'not my ad' ...just thought I'd throw that in there hehe...just saw it and figured i'd throw it in the pile.


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## ChuckRum

bigfishy said:


> $85 for permit + $100 exporting papers + $30 Axolotls + tax + importing papers + 50% to 100% mark up for the store = $300 - $400
> 
> That $400 Axolotls you have seen in your lfs isn't so crazy in price afterall.


lol actually the only 400$ axols i have ever seen where the ones at that big dumpy aquarium place across from pacific mall (not luckys), forgot the name but im sure you know what im talkin about ..

any ways they were neon like green highliter green with pink highliter coloured gills, genetically modified from a lab in russia he told me.(axols are used for experimentation in labs very often)

if they were mature enough to sex them i would have bought them to breed and make some hardcore cash expecially since they produce hundreds of offspring


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## nixx

Hunglikeafruitbat said:


> Sounds like someone stocked up from Big Als and is now trying to make a profit on $50 Axies. If I'm wrong and someone has taken the time to breed some of their own, congrats and I apologize for the speculation but...$200 for a Leucistic? Insanity, they will be available for no more than $80 soon. I would consider paying $300 or so for a Harlequin but that is only because it is the rarest color morph in the breed and almost unheard of in Canada..... Leucistics may as well be called The New Wild Type....everyone has 'em.
> 
> I personally wouldn't bother with this and just wait, but it is an option I guess for folks who don't mind paying 250% over retail.
> 
> Mat.


I emailed him asking about his high price. Turns out it's GFP-leucistic, if anyone interested


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## Hunglikeafruitbat

nixx said:


> I emailed him asking about his high price. Turns out it's GFP-leucistic, if anyone interested


GFP is a Genetically Modified Organism and therefore someones private property. This means you can be sued for huge sums if you get caught breeding them. They were never intended to get out of the lab and now that they have, the patent owners have been filling suits against people.

GMO's are also unapproved by the CFIA so they are for all intensive purposes illegal in Canada. Although there has been no specific legislation regarding GFP axies, there is a legal precedent set with the glofish laws so you could be in trouble if caught breeding them and like I said, the patent owners could sue and send you in to bankruptcy. I plan on getting some myself....but I wouldn't risk losing everything to breed any.

Mat.


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## PACMAN

well sir, Big Als Mississauga has Axolotls, 25 for the regular, and 30 for albinos. It looks like they just came in.


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## bigfishy

It is hard to prove if your breeding them or not. For example, if I bought two and they start reproducing, is it my fault that they bred?



shady leeway


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## Hunglikeafruitbat

bigfishy said:


> It is hard to prove if your breeding them or not. For example, if I bought two and they start reproducing, is it my fault that they bred?
> 
> 
> 
> shady leeway


Yes it is your fault.

Simple possession is illegal, breeding, whether intended or not, is patent theft. Every day someone gets sued for reproducing GMO's they don't own. Just google for lawsuits associated with Glofish and you'll find several examples. Since all GMO's are unapproved in Canada we don't see or hear about as many of these cases as they do in the states, but it still happens.

In the states where GMO's have been approved for agriculture, many farmers have lost everything they own in lawsuits brought on by commercial, corporate farms. The pollen from patented, corporate owned corn (Starlight for example) travels to a small farm and pollinates the small farmers crops. This produces a hybrid that contains DNA from the GMO corn, making it the sole property of the patent holder. The patent holder can then sue and they do it every day there. In fact because corn is so promiscuous many commercial operations hire people to go out and collect samples regularly to check for new land they can appropriate. The small farmer, working with heirloom crops handed down for generations, didn't ask for GMO corn DNA to be in his crops, he didn't go out and buy any and he didn't cause the two strains to cross, intentionally or otherwise.... but legal precedent states that he is in the wrong and must make restitution.

So your argument holds no legal water at all.

I plan on getting some myself and possibly breeding as well, but not for sale and certainly not in public.

Mat.


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## killieman

Yeah Hamilton and Kitch. got them in but there is a reason for the low price, they are all missing their legs or have stumps for legs.

Gary


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