# Markham Shrimp Talk, Date and Place and Format.



## randy

(See reply #8 for more details)

So we had some interest. I'm thinking to do this on Thursday (May 3rd), tentatively, 7:30pm to whatever time people want to stay. 

Time: May 3rd, 7:30pm

Place: McDonalds in the plaza at the north/east corner of Warden/HW 7, near the future shop.

Format: Since this is the first time we do this, people will just introduce themselves and what they have and what they're up to. 

Let me know 

1. if you can attend at this time and place (or propose new date/time)
2. if this venue is okay with you (or propose new venue)
3. do you want to have a topic or just an introduction.


If time/place is no good then we can always change. I think I'll give it a go if we get more than 5 people showing.

Bring whatever device you have that can access internet to show off your collections, there's free wifi in McDonolds.


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## Fishfur

Dang it. I could come the following Thursday but not this one coming. Anyone else for a one week postponement ?


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## randy

Fishfur said:


> Dang it. I could come the following Thursday but not this one coming. Anyone else for a one week postponement ?


Since you're the first to respond and you live out of town, I've changed the date. I'm sure more will come, this also gives it more time for people to plan ahead.


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## Fishfur

That's great. I really do want to come to this talk, I have so much to learn, being a newbie at shrimp keeping. I've read a lot, but reading is not the same as doing. I already lost most of the first dwarf shrimp I got. They were snowballs, 3 half grown, about a dozen a few days old. Have them in a netted breeder box, as I figured the whisker and ghost shrimp I have in the same tank would eat the babies.. but the net box is not entirely covered on top. Some of the whiskers and ghost shrimp got into it almost the moment I finished setting it up. While I now have a lid that works, I think all the babies were probably eaten by the bigger guys who got inside early on. Only took me one day to get a full cover on it.. but that was more than enough time for the little ones to be preyed upon. Live and learn I guess.


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## splur

Blarg, too bad you guys are so far north! Next talk should be downtown...


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## matti2uude

Unfortunately I work afternoons so I can't come on a week night.


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## AquaticPulse

would this be only to those already into shrimp or considering going into it?


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## randy

Okay, I'll make your time/drive even more worthwhile.

Although we haven't had our first meeting yet, I'll give you the heads-up on the second meeting and you'll know why.

For the second meeting:
Date: First week in June.
Place: Aqua Inspiration (http://www.aquainspiration.com/)
Activity: There will be some shrimp-related demo, and there will be beers and maybe even BBQ.

Background:
I just talked to my friend Sam at AI, he is excited about our meetings and he wants to invite our small shrimp talk group to his store for our meetings. Since he is going back to Asia next week for a month so he invited us to his place for our second meetings. (He will move that island and arrange chairs for us). He is even suggesting for us to come up with some shrimp-keeping related experiments and we can use the stuff in his store. And it gets even better, he will give a very decent discount for our group, and it is not just some 20% to 30%, you'll get near wholesale cost for anything shrimpy, including of course, shrimps (I'll work out the details with him). And if that's not good enough, he will invite speakers like Frank Jiang from BC, and someone from Benibachi Singapore to do some shrimp seminars. Guess who will get priority seating in these seminars? 

I'm not kidding around, if you pass by AI and see Sam in the store, you can confirm with him about what he has discussed with Randy. But like I said, he is going back to Asia for more shrimp goodies next Tuesday for about a month (he will visit Taiwan, Japan, and Singapore), so you'll probably only find him in the store for the next few days before his trip.

Also, AI is getting a new shipment of shrimp the week after next, including OEBTs, Aura Blues, some neos, and CRS of different grades. Trust me, you won't need to make orders from the states for the price you'll get via this group in the future.

Okay, there are more, but who else is coming to the first meeting? Whoever comes for the first meeting of course will have the priority to the subsequent meetings (if we get limited seating at AI), and we'll even think about form a club. And I'll guarantee you that -- as long as things go the way I have planned, the membership will always be free.


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## randy

thinkshane said:


> would this be only to those already into shrimp or considering going into it?


This is for everyone who is interested in shrimp keeping, even if he/she doesn't have any shrimps yet. The main goals are to spread this hobby and exchange of experience. If I'm not being clear, what I'm trying to say is -- you should come ;-)


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## splur

I'd definitely make the trek to the second meeting! Great work randy, maybe we can all make this hobby have more of a community feel to it.


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## randy

splur said:


> I'd definitely make the trek to the second meeting! Great work randy, maybe we can all make this hobby have more of a community feel to it.


Still can't convince you to come to the first, eh?  That's okay, I understand you live in a "remote area" shrimp-wise


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## bigfishy

Can you do it at 8 in the first meeting?


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## razoredge

randy said:


> This is for everyone who is interested in shrimp keeping, even if he/she doesn't have any shrimps yet. The main goals are to spread this hobby and exchange of experience. If I'm not being clear, what I'm trying to say is -- you should come ;-)


Well done Randy. Thanks for taking the initiative in setting this up. I'm looking forward to both meetings and sharing my (somewhat limited) experiences.

Tony


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## getochkn

Will try to make the first, second should be in a better position to make it. Might have some A/S juvi's to sell if I come to the first one, will help pay for gas if someone wants to buy some. lol.


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## randy

Bringing anything to sell or trade is good, making it more interesting. You might want to list what you'll bring in this thread so people know what will be available. 

GeToChKn, if you have any CRS with red and white legs I'm interested ;-) 

Big fishy, I'm sure we'll stay beyond 8pm, you can come when you can.


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## getochkn

randy said:


> Bringing anything to sell or trade is good, making it more interesting. You might want to list what you'll bring in this thread so people know what will be available.
> 
> GeToChKn, if you have any CRS with red and white legs I'm interested ;-)
> 
> Big fishy, I'm sure we'll stay beyond 8pm, you can come when you can.


Hoping next round Randy with the female you saw and any SS/SSS from her that look good, I'll give you dibs on. Also have to wait till what I have grows up a bit. I'm not sure if leg color is something you see right away in less than a month old babies or it comes and darkens up a bit later.

If I have some to sell, I will post it on here. Might just be a few 10packs of A/S grades with nice whites/red for a decent price, cover my gas up there. It's not cheap nowadays. lol.


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## default

This sounds like fun. If I'm not working I would definitely drop by for both. Personally tangoed with too many shrimps before - salties, freshies, feeders, and deep fried =) keke.


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## joe

Id be willing to come to!!

we just need a solid date and time!!


OUT OF MY OWN CURIOSITY.....

would anyone else (other than me lol) be willing to bring plants and trimmings mosses etc to bring and trade? while we talk tanks we can improve eachothers!!

what do you think?


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## laurahmm

Hi Randy, 

Still wanted to confirm that it's still May 3 at 7:30 at McDonalds? I'm going to bring a small amount of mosses if anyone wants them. Bringing items to trade sounds like a nice idea. I'll see exactly what mosses I have. Thanks for setting everything up Randy and making it Thursdays. 


Laura


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## randy

Just to avoid confusion. The first meeting is on May 3rd, 7:30pm at mcdonalds(hw 7 and warden). The second one is first week in June but exact date can't be decided until Sam is back. Updates will be made using this site and/or group email list. 

Bring stuff to the meeting for show/sale/trade is welcomed, it helps if you first post what you'll bring so people get an idea what will be available. Any sale/trade though is at your own discretion and risk, I assume no liability (standard disclaimer)


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## razoredge

joe said:


> would anyone else (other than me lol) be willing to bring plants and trimmings mosses etc to bring and trade? while we talk tanks we can improve eachothers!!
> 
> what do you think?


I would like to see how everyone landscapes their tanks. It would be great if everyone can take a picture of each of their tanks. Wish I thought about bringing plants earlier, I threw out a lot of guppy grass that took over my 10G. I'll bring some straight vals and corkscrew vals for trades. Anyone interested in MTS?


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## randy

People can post their shrimp tank pictures on this site and we can then use the pictures as references in our meetings. If you have any "smart devices" you can bring to the meetings so we can access the site, I'll bring my ipad2.


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## Zebrapl3co

I can bring a couple of shrimp nets I picked up on my Asia trip for the second meeting for you guys to try out. I know most people would wonder why, but certain shrimp nets are much much beter than others. But someone will need to provide a tank. I can bring my cherry shrimps too.

*Never pay again for live sex! | Hot girls doing naughty stuff for free! | Chat for free!*


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## getochkn

Zebrapl3co said:


> I can bring a couple of shrimp nets I picked up on my Asia trip for the second meeting for you guys to try out. I know most people would wonder why, but certain shrimp nets are much much beter than others. But someone will need to provide a tank. I can bring my cherry shrimps too.


I would love a shrimp net. I suck at netting as it is using a normal net, so anything to up my odd's and reduce the hours I spend chasing one around the tank would help. lol.


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## joe

Zebrapl3co said:


> I can bring a couple of shrimp nets I picked up on my Asia trip for the second meeting for you guys to try out. I know most people would wonder why, but certain shrimp nets are much much beter than others. But someone will need to provide a tank. I can bring my cherry shrimps too.


i would also love a shrimp net i want to cull cherries and with my current 4 inch by 6 inch net doesnt help lol!


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## Murad

I Would certainly be there... Anyone bringing shrimps to sell? What kind and how much?


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## default

Anyone interested in mosses? Or plants? Lol
Have to say, bringing stuff to McDonald's might seem odd, I wonder how the other patrons will react.


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## getochkn

default said:


> Anyone interested in mosses? Or plants? Lol
> Have to say, bringing stuff to McDonald's might seem odd, I wonder how the other patrons will react.


Plastic bag of shrimp inside a plastic shopping bag or something, nothing weird.


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## randy

getochkn said:


> Plastic bag of shrimp inside a plastic shopping bag or something, nothing weird.


We will just have to try, I mean, being weird is one thing, but whole bunch of grownups smiling at bags of water is just too weird, I don't want us to be kicked out of there and have the meet in the parking lot ;-)

One thing though, if you're bring a fish tank for sale/trade, don't take it into the store 

If there's anything you're looking for, you can just say it here in this thread, someone might just have some extra. I'll have some PFRs, Orange, and CRS ready in the June meeting but selling/trading them at AI seems even worse.


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## splur

+1 to staring and smiling at plastic bags filled with water at starbucks, I think you'd get a better reception from other customers there.


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## razoredge

randy said:


> We will just have to try, I mean, being weird is one thing, but whole bunch of grownups smiling at bags of water is just too weird, I don't want us to be kicked out of there and have the meet in the parking lot ;-)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Would you like to supre size that? sorry, couldn't resist.
Click to expand...


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## default

oh man lol, this just might get weird  but nevertheless still sounds quite fun.


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## coldmantis

Was just at Ai earlier with GaryC, I asked Freeman about this so called meet up and he has no idea what I was talking about, he said it's not true and I should talk to the person who started this rumour?


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## randy

coldmantis said:


> Was just at Ai earlier with GaryC, I asked Freeman about this so called meet up and he has no idea what I was talking about, he said it's not true and I should talk to the person who started this rumour?


I made it very clear I talked to Sam (read my post) and that you can confirm with him, and then you have to talk to someone else and then calling this a rumor.

I think my post was very clear that I talked to Sam on Sunday and I also said he was leaving on Tuesday for Asia so if you want to confirm you should do it before then, it's possible he didn't tell the other guys in the store yet because it was so close to his trip.

What is there for me to gain if you come to the first meeting and find out I am lying about the second? It's not like I am charging people with attending these meetings.

Also, I would also appreciate a lot if matters like this can be communicated with PM first instead of in the open forum and causing confusion to others.

I'm a bit upset, so I will shut up now.


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## coldmantis

randy said:


> I made it very clear I talked to Sam (read my post) and that you can confirm with him, and then you have to talk to someone else and then calling this a rumor.
> 
> I think my post was very clear that I talked to Sam on Sunday and I also said he was leaving on Tuesday for Asia so if you want to confirm you should do it before then, it's possible he didn't tell the other guys in the store yet because it was so close to his trip.
> 
> What is there for me to gain if you come to the first meeting and find out I am lying about the second? It's not like I am charging people with attending these meetings.
> 
> Also, I would also appreciate a lot if matters like this can be communicated with PM first instead of in the open forum and causing confusion to others.
> 
> I'm a bit upset, so I will shut up now.


don't be upset, your taking this as an attack on you. That is not my intentions. I only stated what Freeman said to me nothing more nothing less, I only assumed Freeman knew because I been going to ai since they first opened in Esna Park before they moved to Kennedy, I know both Sam and Freeman. I thought the store is both theirs (co-owners), I didn't mean to confuse anyone, I think what your trying to do is a great idea. I didn't go there to confirm anything I went there to buy stuff and support their store, I only brought it up because Freeman looked bored so I chatted him up. I only posted to this OPEN FORUM as your stated because it's an open forum, this get together affects not only you but any participants that wants to come, that's why I chose not to PM. But since you explained yourself the issue is resolved.


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## randy

Sorry I got upset, it's hard not to when what I'm working on is called a rumor. I'm glad I tried to control myself not to say too much when I was upset. Now I feel better.

Please understand my intention is to promote this hobby and there is no personal gain in these meetings for me. Myself is also very new to shrimp keeping and I know what would've helped me at the beginning.

I don't want this shrimp talk to smell fishy so *I'll cancel the first meeting* or at least not to talk about it in the open forum before it becomes a reality, anyone is welcome to take over and organize this because there are a lot of interest (date and place are even decided for you). I'll even show up if I'm allowed ;-)

This cancellation is not because of coldmantis' comment, but after the recent event of the mysterious shrimps that never show up and some other shrimp related thread that got a bit heated. I don't want this thing to start off the wrong foot.

*If anyone is still interested in such meetings, PM me your email address* and I'll provide you with the meeting information. Although I know enough shrimp hobbyists to start a small group, that beats the purpose. Everyone is welcomed, and I mean everyone. I'll call it a night and spend more time with my shrimps now, I think another female CRS is about to get berried and it's so much fun watching those males trying to get close to her


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## bigfishy

Don't cancel it!

Just go with the original plan! 

It will still take place @ McDonald @ Warden / Hwy 7 @ 7:30pm (I will be there at 8pm) 


For second meeting, if AI doesn't work out, I think I can let you into my office @ night! xD


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## Fishfur

I would be most interested in having a good shrimp net.. it is tough catching my whisker shrimp, they're quick, even though larger than than cherries and such. Even my 4x4 brine shrimp net does not work that well, never mind ripping up the plants and rearranging the wood elements.


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## splur

Yeah, you should still do the first meeting randy, even though I can't make it lol. This hobby is turning sour quick in the GTA from recent events and we need a sense of community that you are doing great initiating. If we need to convince you more ambitious entrepreneurs, a sense of community in a hobby also means selling more, animosity just scares away new hobbyists.

People should watch how they word their posts to be more sensitive to others, anytime, anywhere, because it really did sound like you were calling randy a liar if you want to read your post again coldmantis. I'm not that I'm saying you made it a point to, it's just hard not getting that from your post.


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## randy

splur said:


> Yeah, you should still do the first meeting randy, even though I can't make it lol. This hobby is turning sour quick in the GTA from recent events and we need a sense of community that you are doing great initiating. If we need to convince you more ambitious entrepreneurs, a sense of community in a hobby also means selling more, animosity just scares away new hobbyists.
> 
> People should watch how they word their posts to be more sensitive to others, anytime, anywhere, because it really did sound like you were calling randy a liar if you want to read your post again coldmantis. I'm not that I'm saying you made it a point to, it's just hard not getting that from your post.


Thanks for the support, I thought it more and think coldmantis was doing the right thing, I mean, he did talk to someone in AI and got different answer, so warning the others is the right thing to do. I don't blame him for this, although I would appreciate if he used different wording.

Since bigfishy responded first saying he'd still go to the first meeting, I'll be there too. This is to promote the hobby so don't come just because there's a potential discount in the future. Let's try to be a happy bunch enjoy this great hobby, that's what it is all about.

BTW, just picked up a 2 tier stand and more tanks on the way... woohoo..


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## splur

randy said:


> Thanks for the support, I thought it more and think coldmantis was doing the right thing, I mean, he did talk to someone in AI and got different answer, so warning the others is the right thing to do. I don't blame him for this, although I would appreciate if he used different wording.
> 
> Since bigfishy responded first saying he'd still go to the first meeting, I'll be there too. This is to promote the hobby so don't come just because there's a potential discount in the future. Let's try to be a happy bunch enjoy this great hobby, that's what it is all about.
> 
> BTW, just picked up a 2 tier stand and more tanks on the way... woohoo..


For your basement or 3rd story of your house? lol...


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## Fishfur

Well, I for one am looking forward to this meeting, regardless of potential discounts on anything, I just want to learn more about shrimp keeping.. if it goes well and we go on to becoming a group, that's great for all concerned.


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## coldmantis

splur said:


> Yeah, you should still do the first meeting randy, even though I can't make it lol. This hobby is turning sour quick in the GTA from recent events and we need a sense of community that you are doing great initiating. If we need to convince you more ambitious entrepreneurs, a sense of community in a hobby also means selling more, animosity just scares away new hobbyists.
> 
> People should watch how they word their posts to be more sensitive to others, anytime, anywhere, because it really did sound like you were calling randy a liar if you want to read your post again coldmantis. I'm not that I'm saying you made it a point to, it's just hard not getting that from your post.


I don't want to add oil to the flame, but I don't like what you said. your telling me to reread my own comment. And I read it. not sure how I can reword it, it's plain and simple.

"Was just at Ai earlier with GaryC," - I'm telling everyone I went there and didn't call or email 
"I asked Freeman about this so called meet up" - Freeman is his name and I'm pretty sure he's the co-owner of Ai, the so called meet up is the subject of our conversation 
"and he has no idea what I was talking about, *he said it's not true and I should talk to the person who started this rumour*?" - Please note the bold, red and underline statement I said *he said.* I didn't say those things he did

ask anyone in my feedback page about their experience from buying plants from me, I do this as a hobby to help out other people not as a business, I already have a career I'm happy with. You won't believe how many times someone has come to buy plants I would give them advice for like an hour+ even though they buy like almost nothing. You also wouldn't believe how many times I told poeple not to buy this or that plant from me because you won't able to grow it properly most people who sell wouldn't tell you that trust me on this, you won't believe how many people who came over and complained about some other sellers on this forum! on how bad their experience was, lack of knowlege about the plants they sell, expensive, low quantity and low quality and how they just want your money.


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## splur

@coldmantis
I don't doubt your reputation, I've seen your ads and your plants look beautiful. I'm really sorry if I insulted you, again, the tone of a post means everything and like yours, mine came off the wrong way.



> Was just at Ai earlier with GaryC, I asked Freeman about this *so called meet up* and he has no idea what I was talking about, he said it's not true and I should talk to the person who started this rumour?


vs.



> Was just at Ai earlier with GaryC, I asked Freeman about the meet up and he had no idea what I was talking about, he said, "it's not true and you should talk to the person who started this rumour"?


I know, it's a very small difference, barely noticeable, but if you posted the 2nd one it would've cast a lot less doubt on randy's credibility and would've been more asking if the meeting was actually happening. The way you put it, this "so called meeting" already set the tone that made randy look like he was lying and that Freeman called him on it. I'm not the only one who saw it that way, randy obviously saw it too otherwise he would've laughed right? If someone asked me about my "*so called* shrimps" or your "*so called* plant quality", I think both of us would take just as much offense to it just as randy did. Key word, "so called" calls on someone's credibility which you probably just did accidentally.

I'd trust either of you with setting up such a hobby meeting, above me anyways as you two seem to have more pull in this hobby, and to be honest I'm quite excited meeting everyone who have shrimp around here. I've only met two others!


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## coldmantis

@ Splur

Yes I was offended a little, but you know what? after your reply I completely understand why Randy would think I was calling him a Liar. When I stated "this so called meeting", the only reason I said that was because I didn't know what to call it, shrimp meeting, Markham Shrimp club, Shrimp keeping Q&A, that's the honest truth. I had no intentions of it coming out any other way. For that I will apologize to Randy. I still hope this meeting happens because I see potential for it to possibly become bigger. Let's get back on track on what this Thread is about and that is getting together and sharing experiences on keeping and breeding fancy shrimp. Lets put this behind us.


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## default

coldmantis said:


> @ Splur
> 
> Yes I was offended a little, but you know what? after your reply I completely understand why Randy would think I was calling him a Liar. When I stated "this so called meeting", the only reason I said that was because I didn't know what to call it, shrimp meeting, Markham Shrimp club, Shrimp keeping Q&A, that's the honest truth. I had no intentions of it coming out any other way. For that I will apologize to Randy. I still hope this meeting happens because I see potential for it to possibly become bigger. Let's get back on track on what this Thread is about and that is getting together and sharing experiences on keeping and breeding fancy shrimp. Lets put this behind us.


+1 good man, now let's forget that ever happened.
Who wants some plants?? 

P.s still looking forward to a happy bunch!


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## randy

Yes, let's just get back to the main purpose of these "events" and forget about the bumps we hit on the way. They only mean we're all serious about this hobby and nothing more. I hope no hard feelings and I see we all deal with this maturely (I'm the worse lol).

I got a few PMs from people who are interested and would like to see this going and I do plan to go to the first meeting next week that was set up. 

Let's get back to the topic and happily discuss what we want to see happen , everything else is left behind.

So, let's talk about
- any particular topic you want people to think about first and discuss in the first or subsequent events.
- Anything you would take to any event for sale/trade (again, these are at the buyers' and sellers' own risk)
- post your shrimp palace to show off in these events.


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## joe

whats the date were planning on doing this?

whoever plans on bringing shrimp nets better bring alot lol


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## randy

Seems to me people are still interested in the first meeting. See date/place below. 

Time: May 3rd, 7:30pm

Place: McDonalds in the plaza at the north/east corner of Warden/HW 7, near the future shop.

I don't mind an extra shrimp net but I already have one so others can get them first.


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## razoredge

randy said:


> randy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seems to me people are still interested in the first meeting. See date/place below.
> 
> Time: May 3rd, 7:30pm
> 
> Place: McDonalds in the plaza at the north/east corner of Warden/HW 7, near the future shop.
> 
> I don't mind an extra shrimp net but I already have one so others can get them first.
> 
> 
> 
> Next to impossible in catching shrimp without distrurbing your plants and decor. After grumbling at the price of one, I picked one up from BA and the net came off after a couple of weeks. I jury-rigged it so the net still works but am looking for another one to replace it.
> 
> Anyone interested in trading some moss for 8" long straight Val or shorter corkscrew vals for this Shrimp meeting.
Click to expand...


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## Symplicity

I am willing to trade some ludwiga, rotala, and other plant cuttings for afew CBS/CRS.  Let me know and ill bring some


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## default

anyone interested in the following?
-Ludwigia palastrus
-Hygro kompact
-Ludwigia Repen. red


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## mr_bako

*meeting*

Count on me to be there. 

Lets grow this group and spread this hobby!


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## Zebrapl3co

joe said:


> whats the date were planning on doing this?
> 
> whoever plans on bringing shrimp nets better bring alot lol


What!? woah, I wasn't planning to be there on the first one, I can't make it on May 3rd. Child commitment, sorry. As for the net, I wasn't planning on selling either. Sorry if I mislead you guys. I was just going to bring a bunch of shrimps nets that I collected over the years and let you guys try it out, so you'll know the good ones from the shitty ones.

*Never pay again for live sex! | Hot girls doing naughty stuff for free! | Chat for free!*


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## randy

Let's do a recount, who will be there for the May 3rd meeting?

I know mr_bako will be there since I'll give him a ride.

I think Laura will be there too.

And I'll be there.

So that's three. Who else? It's not a commitment but just so we know how many may show up.


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## manmadecorals

Count me in for the second meeting at AI if and when it happens. Unfortunately Thursdays, I teach Kung-Fu, so I can't make it


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## razoredge

randy said:


> Let's do a recount, who will be there for the May 3rd meeting?
> 
> I know mr_bako will be there since I'll give him a ride.
> 
> I think Laura will be there too.
> 
> And I'll be there.
> 
> So that's three. Who else? It's not a commitment but just so we know how many may show up.


I'll be there. If anyone is located near the promenade mall (bathurst/centre) I can give them a ride. I'll most likely head down bathurst to hi#7 .


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## laurahmm

I'll be there


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## default

Day off on Thursday  see you guys there.
P.s if my gf dosent find out I'm going and tries to stop me.


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## bigfishy

randy said:


> Let's do a recount, who will be there for the May 3rd meeting?
> 
> I know mr_bako will be there since I'll give him a ride.
> 
> I think Laura will be there too.
> 
> And I'll be there.
> 
> So that's three. Who else? It's not a commitment but just so we know how many may show up.


I will be there @ 8pm  (Don't end so early! )


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## laurahmm

Does anyone want any small samples of the following: It's coming from my 6 gallon fluval so I dont have large quantities. Please note they are infected with hydra so you will have to treat the plants first before you put them in your tanks: If you want please let me know so I can bring it:

willow moss
phoenix moss
mini christmas moss
anubia medium size
christmas moss
guppy grass


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## razoredge

laurahmm said:


> Does anyone want any small samples of the following: It's coming from my 6 gallon fluval so I dont have large quantities. Please note they are infected with hydra so you will have to treat the plants first before you put them in your tanks: If you want please let me know so I can bring it:
> 
> willow moss
> phoenix moss
> mini christmas moss
> anubia medium size
> christmas moss
> guppy grass


I'm interested in the Anubia and phoenix moss. Are you interested in trading for some medium / large corkscrew vals or some taiwan moss?


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## laurahmm

Sure I can bring those. Any plants that you can spare for trade would be great. Thanks! If you cant spare any, dont worry about it. I will still bring them.

Laura


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## randy

For all those will show up : See you tonight.


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## getochkn

I won't be able too, vehicle issues. Next time for sure though.


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## Murad

Count me in.


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## matti2uude

I'll be working.


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## Egonsgirl

I really wanted to...... tried catching a ride from the west end, but didn't work out.


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## Fishfur

Yeah, sorry about the ride thing, Egonsgirl - but boy am I tired.. long day hanging out in Markham ! But totally worth it, great meeting ! At least next time I'll know the faces to look for.. I struck out twice before I found the right group ! Just sorry I had to leave a bit early, I thoroughly enjoyed meeting everyone and it was a good discussion.
And I came home to find my brood tank full of BABY SHRIMP ! I am stunned.. and tired.. so wish me luck that at least some of them survive. I posted a few details on my larval shrimp thread, but now I have got to hit the hay.


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## Murad

Congrats Fishfur! I had fun tonight. I enjoyed every bit of it. Worth every liter of gas.  Can't wait for the next meeting. @ Laurahmm find that passport! : ) I want to thank everyone that was there tonight. Learned a lot.


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## default

Damn, didn't end up making it.. Got tickets to the avengers and everything became very rushed. Hopefully I will see you guys next time.


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## randy

I really had a great time meeting everyone. In total 9 showed up and as far as I can tell -- everyone had a great time.


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## Fishfur

Sure looked that way to me.. it was great hearing everyone's experiences and everyone seems to have interests in common but also different ideas of what they want to accomplish with shrimp now and in the future. Still can't believe Novice never changes the water ! 

Btw, I thought someone said something about trying to select for shrimp not only on the basis of colour characteristics,but also on the basis of being generally successful, particularly as breeders, in our local water conditions. I thought it was Novice who suggested the basic idea, but it kind of got lost in the general discussion going on. 

I think it could be a great idea. I realize it won't work for all shrimp, of course, but for those species and/or colour types that are able to adapt to our tap water, suitably treated for choramines etc., to me it makes sense to select for the strongest offspring so as to end up with a sub group of shrimp who thrive in our water, rather than constantly trying to amend the water to suit instead. If you didn't say something like that Novice, sorry to put words in your mouth, but I still think it's an idea worth exploring. Can't wait for the next meeting !


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## randy

Yeah, that was Novice's idea.


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## novice

Fishfur said:


> Sure looked that way to me.. it was great hearing everyone's experiences and everyone seems to have interests in common but also different ideas of what they want to accomplish with shrimp now and in the future. Still can't believe Novice never changes the water !
> 
> Btw, I thought someone said something about trying to select for shrimp not only on the basis of colour characteristics,but also on the basis of being generally successful, particularly as breeders, in our local water conditions. I thought it was Novice who suggested the basic idea, but it kind of got lost in the general discussion going on.
> 
> I think it could be a great idea. I realize it won't work for all shrimp, of course, but for those species and/or colour types that are able to adapt to our tap water, suitably treated for choramines etc., to me it makes sense to select for the strongest offspring so as to end up with a sub group of shrimp who thrive in our water, rather than constantly trying to amend the water to suit instead. If you didn't say something like that Novice, sorry to put words in your mouth, but I still think it's an idea worth exploring. Can't wait for the next meeting !


Fishfur - nope you quoted me correctly - one of the things i do want to try out is breed the crystals in normal tap water - and i know of folks out here in TO who have successfully been breeding the crystals in 7.2 (now not sure if it was straight out of the tap or treated)

all in all was great 1st meeting and sharing experiences - hopefully we should have an agenda in the next meeting.

And Yes : i still top off - no water changes  but i guess it will soon be time to do a substrate change.


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## getochkn

Some people even on here like Bwhiskered just use tap water I believe and have them breeding, he's always selling them at the auctions and stuff.

I think having a well established tank, keeping params stable whatever they are, it will work. It may take some time as natural selection will do its work. F1 gen, maybe only 3 babies survive the tap water conditions. Next few batches from say a single M/F pair, you get 3-4 babies as well. Those babies as they start to breed are adapted to the water and their offspring will have better % rates and so on. I could see in a year or two having a good stock of tap water breeding crystals. I know they will live in tap water fine. I got my first ones from Big Al's and had them in my community tank, they lived. Didn't try for breeding or know anything about shrimp then but they lived. Some of my badly colored crystal culls that have no white, bad patterns, etc, I have put in my community tank and they are living fine with oto's, platys, loaches. I see them out everyday all over the tank. No females in there, just culled males but they can live in the water fine, so it becomes a matter of getting them to breed and getting even a few babies to make it to breed. In Hamilton, our tap water has went up in pH to 8-8.2 range lately, and they are still living fine in there.


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## getochkn

I've also spoken with some European breeders who have a hard time getting a low pH, RO is expensive where they live, etc, so they start off with low pH water adjusted to whatever water the shrimp they bought came from, and over 6 months slowly increase the pH/gH/etc with their source tap water bit by bit to slowly adjust them. Some of them are keeping Taiwan Bee's, SSS's, in 7.8-8.0 pH tap waters. One of them told me first few broads are low babies but they adjust if you do it slowly and match their initial water to what they came in and take your time to adjust. Might be another way to do it. Start off with RO/peat lowered pH water, etc and then just do small top off's with a 70-30 mix, 60-40, 50-50, 40-60, etc until you are using pure tap water with them and see how that goes. I may give an experiment as well. I have lower grades and I'm in the process of setting up 4x10g's for some more tanks to play with.


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## razoredge

randy said:


> I really had a great time meeting everyone. In total 9 showed up and as far as I can tell -- everyone had a great time.


I also had a great time and I was suprised how fast the time flew by. It's great to be able to put a face on each member and I look forward to many more shrimp meetings.


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## Fishfur

That makes good sense, getochkn. When you think about it, in the wild, conditions must, at some times of the year at least,[ and lately, every year weather variations seem to become more extreme ], vary. At times I am sure they might vary by quite wide margins. Heavy rains would alter water parameters very quickly, as could an extended dry season or any other weather extreme. Some creatures are going to die as a result, sometimes most of a population might die, but the ones who survive to reproduce are going to produce young that are more adaptable. Natural selection is always operating. No reason we can't try to imitate this, but since we do have to pay for our creatures, doing it slowly so as to minimize losses only makes sense. Plus I just hate having animals die before their time or from bad husbandry, if it can be avoided. Doesn't really matter to me whether it's a shrimp, a fish, a mammal or reptile, it is alive and it has a right to live its life. I think we have some obligation to try and provide living conditions that will allow them to live a decent life. Reality will always have it's way, so there are always going to be losses too.


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## getochkn

Yes Fishfur, I imagine in nature water params change. Rain water is like pure RO water so ph/gh/tds, etc would change after a week rain storm. Loosing 6" of water in a stream or lake from a drought is going to raise all those values as evap happens, so they go through lots of changes all the time. Extreme's in either end like a 5 month drought or 3 month rain storm will force natural selection to happen.

I agree, I don't want to kill them either but making a strain that works well in tap water would benefit everyone. I am going to try what my European friend told me, to do it slowly over time. Take a few females and a few males, put them in a tank with water of the same param's I have now. Then slowly increase things over a 6 month period and see how they do until it's just pure aged tap water in the tank and see how they do. I'm setting up some tanks this weekend so I'll try one with inert substrate and a low ph water and build it up from there. I'll start with some babies to give them a better shot. As I said, they can live in tap water, I have culls living fine. It's the breeding part that will be the test.


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## Egonsgirl

Now I'm really sad I didn't make it. Not your fault Fishfur, don't feel bad. Hopefully I can make the next one. Glad you all had a great time. Thank you randy for getting it together for everyone, great idea.


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## arc

For those interested, someone in Toronto already has developed a strain that can breed well in Toronto water. Jamesren 

The survival rate for the babies wasn't too bad either as I got about 30% rate from them. There should be a few people around with the original line as well so with his two years already(He started in 07) there should be a line bred for 4-5 years in Toronto water.

Not sure he's still selling though. I mixed his CRS a while back with some asian ones to get better colours and it seem to help alot in terms of making a easier shrimp to keep.


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## randy

@Egonsgirl, too bad you couldn't make it, hope to see you next time.

@arc, 10 CRS for $25 in 2009, that's a great deal no matter it's GTA water trained or not.

@Novice, another idea is to import some of those already adapted to hard water in Germany, it will cost some money but it will save you at least a year or more. I don't mind taking part in this so let me know if you want more people to get involved. I'll start to move some of the culls to the Neo tank and see what happens. Although I have my reservation on low ph / soft water orientated nature is the reason for relatively lower / slow growing popularity of shrimp keeping in GTA, but getting them to survive and breed in GTA water definitely will help.


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## Fishfur

I will be very interested to see how it turns out, especially as I now have what I think are ghost shrimp babies, just morphed from the free swimming stage.. hoping for Whisker shrimp to do the same, but not positive they can in FW.. wait 'n see is all I can do at this point. They are obviously not as sensitive to the hard water here, but also, they arrived pregnant. I don't know if there will be future pregnancies, again, all I can do is wait and see. But I want to get into the other dwarf shrimps and it would be a godsend to be able to get them already acclimated to our water and able to reproduce in it. I am simply not able to provide RO water.. I do have a distiller, but it makes only one gallon per day. Even in a small tank that goes fast and I have other needs for it as well. So patience is key, but given that most animals have the ability to adapt to change, doing it slowly makes the most sense. I wish you success !


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## bettaforu

I also do not change my water or use RO and have success in breeding many types of shrimps over the last 2 years. I only top up when my water level goes down and add Amquel+ or Nova Aqua.

I have also brought in tigers from Germany over a year ago and will be doing so again in July, so let me know what you are looking for and I can see what is available.

German shrimps are pretty hardy, however my black tigers never bred even when I put them into my regular tiger tank (I wanted to know if they were in fact sterile) Nothing ever came of it and eventually they died off.

German Red Tigers I got also at the same time, I ended up selling to Igor and then bought a few back to try, but again although the female got berried she never produced any young, and in the same tank were CRS having babies so don't know what happened there. Igor I believe had the same time of experience they just didn't do well here....could be our tap water, could be anything who knows 

I did try an experiment recently with some bare bottom tanks and only tap water with some lower grade CRS in there, I got a few females berried, but after discussions on other forums, decided to put the berried females in one of my planted tanks, now I have 3 more females berried in there.

I think its not so much the PH but whether there is enough food for the babies to eat and grow, so algae on glass would be a good thing, as well as on stones etc. When I raised the 300+ OEBTs I did it in regular PH 7.6 tap water, but I did have lots of driftwood, stones and lots of algae growing on the tank walls which I would often see babies crawling all over, so I do believe myself that that is the key to keeping the babies alive....food for them!


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## Fishfur

Fwiw, I see the ghost shrimp, Whisker shrimp and the few Snowballs I have constantly going up and down the tank glass, and they appear to be grazing on it. I have a few snails now and they have done perhaps too good a job of eating the algae on the glass, so now I wonder if I should let more of it grow, at least on the back wall and sides. But algae tablets I put in for feeding are always the last thing eaten. They like the crab/lobster bits a lot more, and argue over them. The snails seem to be the ones cleaning up the algae tabs.. and now I have some Ottos in there too. Maybe I should let the nitrate levels rise a bit to encourage a bit more algae ? I also have dried seaweed sheets meant for algae eating fish.. Could start putting some of that in too.


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## Ciddian

Oooo I just caught on to this meeting on the third :/ Sorry I missed it. 

I'll try to make the second!


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## Fishfur

Be nice to have a few more ladies attend !


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## Ebi-Ken

Question to Randy, how many people are in this meet?


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## randy

@Ebi-Ken: A few guys couldn't make it due to reasons such as transportation or working schedule. We had 9 showed up in the first meeting.


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## Ebi-Ken

How many do you think there will be in the next meet and where is it being hosted may I ask?


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## getochkn

Ebi-Ken said:


> How many do you think there will be in the next meet and where is it being hosted may I ask?


I'm going to try and make the next one and Randy was working on getting it at AI and was in talks with Sam before went away for the month.


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## Ebi-Ken

getochkn said:


> I'm going to try and make the next one and Randy was working on getting it at AI and was in talks with Sam before went away for the month.


I see, Sam hasn't spoken to me about it and I communicate with him through whatsapp and msn. Currently I speak to Ames and Freeman while Sam is away. But yes still interested to know how many people are in the next meet.


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## randy

Ebi-Ken said:


> I see, Sam hasn't spoken to me about it and I communicate with him through whatsapp and msn. Currently I speak to Ames and Freeman while Sam is away. But yes still interested to know how many people are in the next meet.


Hi Frank, I sent you a PM with more info. I want to confirm all the details before making the information available in the forum to avoid confusion.


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## Ebi-Ken

randy said:


> Hi Frank, I sent you a PM with more info. I want to confirm all the details before making the information available in the forum to avoid confusion.


kk, I still haven't received..... you can e-mail me at ebikenwholesaling @ gmail [dot] com as well.


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## Egonsgirl

So,,, does anyone have an idea of what date the next meeting might be? Hopefully it will be in the first week of June.. I'll be able to make it then


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## randy

Egonsgirl said:


> So,,, does anyone have an idea of what date the next meeting might be? Hopefully it will be in the first week of June.. I'll be able to make it then


It will likely be first Thursday in June, please send me a PM with your email address.

We might need to limit the number of attendees due to capacity of the meeting venue, those who attended the first one get priority and others are on a first PM first serve basis. Once the meetings are running smoothly we may open it up again for everyone.


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## Egonsgirl

hey randy, anymore news on the meeting for june???


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## randy

Egonsgirl said:


> hey randy, anymore news on the meeting for june???


All who have sent me their email address will be notified. I'm still waiting for Sam to come back before we can get all details confirmed.


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## randy

randy said:


> All who have sent me their email address will be notified. I'm still waiting for Sam to come back before we can get all details confirmed.


I have just sent out the notification for June's meeting. If you're interested and you have previously sent me your email address, it should be in your inbox. If not, please PM me with your email address again. We might have one or two spots left so you can PM me your email address.


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## Fishfur

If anyone coming to the meeting wants some nice frogbits, let me know, I have a lot that I don't have room for and it's really nice. Most are fairly large, many with babies attached, and roots over 7 inches long. Fifty cents each. I also have baby watersprite, if anyone is interested I can bring some of those as well.


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