# What filter can I get to make the water clearer?



## Letigrama (Jul 6, 2008)

Hello all,

I am bit lost as my 2 year old tank never got the pristine water conditions I used to have with my former tank.

Here the specs.


125 g long tank
9 Adult discus, some plecos, clown loaches and some small tetras.
PH 7.6
temp 86F
WC 75% once a week
filter: Eheim 2217 
3 heaters...
Heavy Planted tank
1 air pump for extra aeration.

Here's the issue. I do WC and water is crystal clear, but after that, the water is always with many particles in flowing and is just not clear at all.
The fish eat 4 times a day and everyday they eat beefheart, which is messy.

I had another JEbo 828 running along with the Eheim for months, and that did not make a difference. Water was still not clear.

I will like to know if I can get something like a skimmer? but I know that Protein skimmers are for freshwater, so I am lost...

Thanks!


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

The classic eheims aren't terribly good for mechanical filtration - they're great for biological filtration. 

You could use a large HOB filter stuffed with filter floss - that should take care of most floating particulates. Also, I'd be inclined to add another 2217.


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## bob123 (Dec 31, 2009)

*What filter*

Hi; From what you have posted I would say your tank is over stocked, water changes for discus should maybe done twice a week at 50% each time, also feeding should be cut to three times a day and not beefheart at each meal discus like variety in thier diet. You may try a HOB filter with just polyester batting and a sponge just to polish the water. This is just my opinion.

Good luck.


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## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

bob123 said:


> Hi; From what you have posted I would say your tank is over stocked, water changes for discus should maybe done twice a week at 50% each time, also feeding should be cut to three times a day and not beefheart at each meal discus like variety in thier diet. You may try a HOB filter with just polyester batting and a sponge just to polish the water. This is just my opinion.
> 
> Good luck.


I'd go even further and say 1/3 3x weekly. My suspicion is that the huge water changes are having a negative effect on water quality.


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## Letigrama (Jul 6, 2008)

mmmm,
ok, I am not going to get into the WC because I understand, however I am not new to Discus, if I wouldnt have Discus, how you explain all particles in the water?
I am not talking about WC which I have no issues with, I am talking about particles in the water.
I cant use an HBO due to my Canopy, and in the back I have not enough space to fit my aquaclear. ( I already thought about this).
Adding another Canister wont have any other effects. I had a JEBO 828 along with the Eheim until now and the results were the same.

The water gets cloudy already the 2nd day after i do the WC. YOu know like cloudy water when you cycle a tank for the first time. I think a skimmer of some kind is what I need....
Thanks for the inputs, but looking for more answers?

Perhaps when I get rid this week of a 7 inch pleco that is pooing all the time, it will improve!


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## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

Letigrama said:


> mmmm,
> ok, I am not going to get into the WC because I understand, however I am not new to Discus, if I wouldnt have Discus, how you explain all particles in the water?
> I am not talking about WC which I have no issues with, I am talking about particles in the water.
> I cant use an HBO due to my Canopy, and in the back I have not enough space to fit my aquaclear. ( I already thought about this).
> ...


IME you get a lot of particulate if you overfeed or when you frequently do very large water changes. Maybe it causes a bit of bacteria die off but this is what I find causes it.


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## TBemba (Jan 11, 2010)

What media are you using in your filter?
I would use sponges and filter floss and add some carbon it will clear up the water. You should be cleaning the filter every two weeks 3/4 new media and 
1/4 old.

Are you feeding Frozen Brine shrimp?

I would get a couple of Huge sponge filters put on in each back corner.
it will help keep healthy bacteria and clean them alternately

What do you have for substrate?

How are you adding the water? aged or straight from the tap?


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Letigrama said:


> mmmm,
> ok, I am not going to get into the WC because I understand, however I am not new to Discus, if I wouldnt have Discus, how you explain all particles in the water?
> I am not talking about WC which I have no issues with, I am talking about particles in the water.
> I cant use an HBO due to my Canopy, and in the back I have not enough space to fit my aquaclear. ( I already thought about this).
> ...


That sounds like you're getting a bacterial bloom after every water change - what are your parameters?


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## gucci17 (Oct 11, 2007)

IMO you're overstocked with inadequate filtration both biological and mechanical. It also does sound like a bacterial bloom after your large WC. It's like catch up for your bacteria everytime you do a WC. 

Don't waste money on a skimmer. Put that money into a another quality filter, something along the lines of your existing 2217. Have you tried to fill your Jebo up with nothing buy filter floss? 

What type of media are you using in your filters?

Can you borrow a diatom filter from someone?

Why not try smaller water changes several times a week?

These guys are trying to offer you suggestions but you seem to be biased to your own opinions.


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## xbacala (Jan 9, 2009)

go for Eheim classic.


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## Letigrama (Jul 6, 2008)

Hello all,

I think I got a couple of good hints now.

1.I realized, The eheim is having only nylon thick floss, but not the spongy floss, and ceramic rings. So I think I might be missing the small particle filtration.

2. I will be adding some sponge filters on the side/

3. I realized I never had carbon in my filters since I moved to be big tank...do you think I should?

4. I wanted to mention that along with the particles, part of the cloudiness are small air bubbles. you know, like O2 tiny particles? 

5, I am working on fixing up the Jebo again and add it, I will try then to add more floss in it.

6. RELUCTANTLY~~~ I will attempt to add an extra water change mid week and then i'll 50% every time. 

WDTY of this plan???


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## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

Letigrama said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I think I got a couple of good hints now.
> 
> ...


You're doing weekly water changes on discus?

Discus = every three days if you're abusing them
every two if you're being a good fish keeper
every day if you want perfect discus.

Your issue is not a lack of filtration, your issue is an unbalanced tank.

Simple wide-pore sponge is enough for any tank. It may not have the bio-density of ehfisubstrat, but in terms of keeping water 'clear' that is not a function of fine filtration. Water polishing media is a myth in my opinion. There should be nothing to polish. A healthy tank should be completely clear, even if it's eight feet wide, you should be able to look through the eight feet of water and see out the other side as clearly as if there were no water there.

The following may seem offensive, but it needs to be said-- if you don't understand the purpose of carbon, and you are wondering if it'd help here, you aren't ready for discus. If you are reluctant to add a second weekly water change, let alone every 2 days, you are not ready for discus. If you don't understand why your water isn't clear, you aren't ready for discus.

I say this for your discus, not to insult you.


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## KhuliLoachFan (Mar 8, 2008)

On my african tank which had a lot of particulate, I went from one cannister (EHEIM 2217) to adding also a Fluval 304, and an Aqueon HOB stuffed with floss. It's great to have a small HOB on the back with easily changed out floss. Whenever I see particulate, I change the HOB floss. That leaves two big cannisters doing the biological (and some mech) filtration.

If it ever got out of control or dirty, like the other guys said, it could be bacterial bloom. It could also be the effect of mixing the toronto tap water which is chock-full of hardness, into your discus tank, which hopefully you are maintaining at a pH suitable for that species? What a shock 50% at once would be.

W


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## Letigrama (Jul 6, 2008)

Hello all,

Thank you for the kind replies.

I thought I will update you and tell you what worked after so much debate.


I added Carbon to the Eheim (which I've never done before). I changed 50% instead 75% and I added a sponge filter. I also move the input outlet of the filter towards the middle section of the tank instead on the one side.

All this worked perfectly. I have a much clearer water. The only thing do I do kind of have still is tiny tiny little oxygen bubbles dissolved in the water coming out of the filter. Is it almost not visible, however is the only thing between me and crystal clear water.....

Take care!


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## dl88dl (Mar 8, 2010)

Letigrama said:


> Hello all,
> 
> Thank you for the kind replies.
> 
> ...


Looks like you are doing a great job and I don't think you are over stocked. Since they are adult Discus I would cut back to 2 feeding a day and only feed beefheart 2 or 3 times a week instead of everyday and include blood worms and TetraColor and any food that your Discus will eat and hopefully you will get that crystal clear water. BTW, once the system is setup and a weekly maintenance schedule...Discus IMO are easy fish to keep.


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## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

If you are looking to use carbon long term, check out Seachem Matrix carbon. It performs I think at least double as well as the Marineland stuff and it doesn't cost a lot more. I'd put it in a HOB filter though. Less hassle to change. I put mine in a Tetra 'big n fluffy' or whatever its called now media bag in my aquaclear. It lets water through evenly and slowly, and polishes the water in addition to holding the carbon.


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## KhuliLoachFan (Mar 8, 2008)

It is possible that you didn't need to add carbon to increase clarity of water. It is possible that the cloudiness was merely an algae bloom or a mini-cycle and the clearup was biological in nature, not due to the addition of carbon, which will absorb lots of things from the water, and possibly speed your cycle up, or slow it down, it's hard to say. As others have said, I find carbon and canisters inconvenient to change. I use a small HOB filter for my carbon, as it's easily accessible. Carbon doesn't last long in a big tank, and turns into a relatively inert biomedia host within days on some tanks, and within two weeks on most tanks. You can measure this by watching your nitrates. If they stay at zero for two weeks and then start to climb up, you can be that the carbon is pooped out. If the nitrates climb daily after two days, it's probable that your carbon lasted you a whole two days. I think that like most things, the carbon goes from 90% effective to 30% effective rather rapidly, and from there, down to 0% at a slower rate. A logarithmic drop-off. 

The small bubbles are common for me in canister filters before I service them, and if I did a good job servicing one, I usually see them go away. However, on one tank, the spray bar is attached to the tank brace (cross-bar) and is pointing straight down into the tank, and spraying with great velocity. This creates a venturi-effect for me which creates a lot of small oxygen bubbles. I think if I got rid of the spray bar and just had some other way of diffusing the return flow all my micro-bubbles would be gone. (Hey I should test my hypothesis.)


W


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