# Crisis averted, but I still feel awful!



## Veesmart (Nov 3, 2012)

So after my Betta (of many years) passed away, I cleaned her tank and set off to find a new one to take her place.

I went to a fish/aquarium store that I had never been to before but it was close to home and recommended by a coworker. As I was looking at their limited selection I asked the (very) young sales guy if it was possible for anything else to live in my 3 gallon, filtered, unheated aquarium. He enthusiastically told me that several different fish could live happily in my tank and showed me over half their selection of livestock as possibilities.

I asked about whether there were any species that couldn't/shouldn't live together and he told me that all of their livestock could live together in one tank. I have to admit that I was skeptical because this contradicted what I had heard previously, but I WANTED to believe him so I did.....mistake number one.

I chose two very small goldfish and a very small turtle. Thinking I was being rather conservative.....mistake number two.

Fast forward a couple days later and the water in the tank is almost so cloudy you can't see through it. I realize at this point that these creatures probably need a larger tank. So my fiance and I head off to another aquarium store to research a bigger setup for these three creatures. We talked to several different staff members there and were told unanimously that:

the turtle will get A LOT bigger and should be living in at least a 40 gallon tank
The turtle will most likely eat the goldfish
The goldfish also need a WAY bigger tank than a 3 gallon
The water is most likely cloudy because the goldfish create more waste than most fish, which is why they need a better filter and bigger tank

I felt awful. We are not prepared to invest in and maintain a large tank and I had made that clear to the sales guy from the beginning. He never even batted an eye when selling me all three, knowing that he was basically signing their death certificate.

We came home and packed all three up in a fish bag (acquired from the second store) and marched right back to the store where I bought them. I was prepared to eat the money I paid for them but I refused to be one of those fish/reptile owners that knowingly neglects the needs of the creatures.

At first they didn't want to take them back but after some well articulated arguing from my fiance they did take them back and even gave us a full refund. However, they continued to maintain that they could live happily together in a 5 gallon tank (which they claim I told them I had). This floored me because, regardless of what they heard me say (5 or 3), NEITHER would be large enough.

I feel better that the situation is rectified, but I'm still super annoyed that they could knowingly make a sale like this and not care at all about the well being of the livestock, I realize they are "just fish" to some, but this is still unethical and irresponsible!!!!!

So, now I am on the hunt for a new Betta to live happily ever after in the tank and that is all.

P.S. Here's a Pic of the turtle. I loved him. He was adorable, but clearly not the pet for me. Anyone know what breed he is though?


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## Ciddian (Mar 15, 2006)

Oh my goodness......

I want to go to whatever that store is and give them a piece of my mind!

I could be wrong, but that turtle looks like a chinese soft shell to me. However I am not 100%. They can get very large... Turtles are so demanding, but wonderful pets.

I thought for sure someone had sold you a red ear slider or something. lol That's the usual turtle people are duped into buying. 

I am extremely happy you returned the animals. I would appreciate if you send me the name of the store in PM so I can avoid these people.


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## Veesmart (Nov 3, 2012)

OK Newbie question....how to PM?


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## Ciddian (Mar 15, 2006)

Np! lol

click on my name over there <= Ciddian and you should see a drop down option to PM me. Private Message


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## bigfishy (Jun 19, 2009)

Ciddian said:


> Oh my goodness......
> 
> I want to go to whatever that store is and give them a piece of my mind!
> 
> ...


It is a Chinese softshell turtle, Pelodiscus sinensis

When they are big, they bite fingers too  and will eat any fish in the tank!


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## bigfishy (Jun 19, 2009)

If your bored of betta, you can do killifish


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## Veesmart (Nov 3, 2012)

Well I think I will stick with the Betta. I actually love Bettas, they are so pretty and relatively simple to care for. 

My fiance and I are considering a bigger tank to accommodate a small community of something...to satisfy that side of the hobby.


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## Mlevi (Jan 28, 2012)

I would love to know the name of this store too, so I can avoid it. Maybe I'm way out o' line, but I think the name should be shared with all members. Besides, this is not a case of someone slamming a LFS, but rather, a member sharing their experience, with the community.


Al.


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

LOL, that turtle is a common delicacy in China. If it gets too big, you can always make soup with it. Very nutritious! 

Oh and I doubt those turtles and fishes would live more happily in that fish store.


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## Newobsession (Nov 17, 2010)

When I first got into fishkeeping a few years ago I had bought my son a 1 gallon hex tank and went into a popular fish store to ask about stocking as I knew nothing at the time. I said I thought angels were cool and my son liked the neons (tetras). The (also very) young kid that helped me told me there would be no problem with half a dozen of the tetras and a couple of angels in it, just wait a week after the neons before I put in the angels. Thankfully I didn't follow his advice and thank god for "Aquariums for Dummies". 

 However, that was a case of 1 inexperienced staff member as the rest of the staff there that I have gotten to know over the years are pretty knowlegable (and even the kid that originally helped me got much better as he expanded his knowledge base)

In your case though it sounds like it wasn't just the one staff member, unless you dealt with the same kid for the return as well. Frankly I don't know which is scarier, the thought of them selling you the livestock knowing full well that it was inappropriate, or the thought that they don't actually know better and truly believe the livestock and tank were compatible. Both very chilling thoughts.

Glad to hear you did the right thing. We need more like you in the hobby.


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

Good for you standing up for the livestock !! I too would like to know what store could be so irresponsible, so as to avoid it. Whether it's just one employee's ignorance or a store wide lack of caring about what happens to the pets they sell, it's disturbing. But I suspect it happens more often than we like to think.

I kept turtles for years, from before I hit high school until I graduated from college. When I first started keeping them I really had no clue how to care for them. Certainly no idea how large they'd get nor what size tank they would eventually require.

But I learned all I could, did research in the library, and was able to improve on their diet and get them a proper light to bask under. I even took in one RES that had a bad shell deformity, from bad feeding and lack of opportunity to bask. I managed to get him sorted out, though his shell would never look quite right, he was able to get around and feed normally.

But mine were all very small when I got them, one still had it's egg tooth, it was so young. So for the years that I had them, space was not an issue. I actually used to let them go swimming in my community fish tank while I cleaned the turtle tanks, as they would devour the snails that were always breeding in the fish tanks and keep them under control. At the time I didn't know they'd have liked to eat my fish as well as the snails, but since they were neither fast nor agile enough at that age to catch any fish, it was never an issue .

But once I graduated from college and started working, I found I simply did not have the time to care for them any longer, and I had more than one. I think this happens quite often, too, when you suddenly don't have the option of leaving your pet for someone at home to care for. I had a Painted, four RES [ red ear sliders] and two river turtles, but not soft shells like the one you were sold.

The river turtles were Yellow Spotted Amazon Side necks, a very attractive species, which is now endangered thanks to the pet trade and no longer legal to sell. They were quite cool, though. Totally aquatic, they don't need to bask and they can't pull their heads in, rather, they bend their neck to one side and hide their heads under a slight extension of the front edge of their shells. The most primitive type of turtle still existing.

I was lucky and managed to find them all a great home. Turned out a cousin of mine, who knew I fed my turtles the snails in my fish tanks, met an architect who had a big snail problem, in the custom built office pond he had. He'd put in a very large, very beautiful indoor/outdoor pond and garden, which included a huge glass divider he could slide down to completely close off the outside pond area in winter. Very fancy digs, and today, when I look back, I realize how fabulously fortunate I was to find them all such an amazing home.

I would not now consider keeping a turtle, unless I could afford one of the few species that matures at under six inches. But they are expensive ! And I don't think anyone who has not done their own research can really imagine just how large that cute little baby turtle can become, especially the females. They are such appealing little guys when you see them in stores. Not to mention having to be careful about sanitation with reptiles, which can be tough with kids who like to handle them and then may not wash their hands right away.

But it's just plain criminal to sell them to someone without warning them what they are getting into. Reminds me of those wretched 'turtle bowl with palm tree' kits they used to sell when I was a kid. Bowls were about a foot across, with a moat around the outer edge and a raised centre for a basking site, complete with tacky plastic palm tree. The moat was for water and might have held a litre or so. I believe literally millions of baby turtles were sold with those bowls, and virtually all of them died.

I've even seen baby turtles offered on Kajiji, at least once they were Chinese soft shells, being sold by someone who did not even know what species they were. And I see large ones, usually RESs, being offered because someone's found out they don't have the space or time for them. Trying to find anyone who is willing to take on an adult or semi adult RES or any other species is very difficult. Though I've noticed that most Sheridan nurseries in the GTA have turtle sanctuaries in their indoor greenhouse ponds, and every turtle in those ponds is a former pet. Even the Big Al's in Scarborough has quite a horde of big RES's in their fish room, which I'd bet used to be pets.

So congrats on doing the right thing and standing up for the animals ! Enjoy the Betta and if you decide you want a bit more later on, there's loads of folks here who will be happy to offer good advice on what you can get that will suit the space you have.


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## Mlevi (Jan 28, 2012)

LFS staff 'on the job training' is a scary prospect....but i guess it happens all the time. 

Golden rule: Never take an 'expert's' advice when they stand to make some COIN off you...be it an LFS or a hardware store. lol


Al


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## Jackson (Jan 30, 2009)

You avoided losing one or a few fingers. These turtles are freaken mean even when their young.

<edited out>
Remember these are not CB no matter what garbage story they tell you. 
Here's the laws
http://www.inspection.gc.ca/animals...-and-reptiles/eng/1326658752555/1326658911065

I'd rather pay more to a store who actually follows the laws and don't abuse these animals.


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## KhuliLoachFan (Mar 8, 2008)

I really wonder why people go with such small tanks. This hobby is no fun with anything smaller than a 10 gallon tank. 

People put bettas in bowls and they just look so sad and pathetic. Anything in a 1 gallon tank can hardly be healthy. How do you even heat 1 gallon of water and keep the temperature stable? Do you change the water EVERY DAY? Yes I know bettas can live in a puddle or a teacup, but is the hobby any fun any more when you reduce it to a betta bowl or a 1 gallon hex plastic thingy? I don't think so.

10 gallon tank and light sets go on sale for $20-$30. Is that really too much of an investment for some people? 

W


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