# Has anyone raised larval shrimp ?



## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

I am wondering how to raise fresh water shrimp that have a larval stage before they take on an adult form. I have ghosts and some Indian Whiskers, which, if I have them ID'd correctly are both Machrobiums and will have larval babies, but won't need brackish water for the free swimming stages. 

I am considering getting an algae culture to grow, and have brine shrimp handy to hatch out, but a bit of research has indicated they will need something even smaller for the first stage or two of life. Rotifers might do.. not sure I want to try culturing rotifers, but I might have to.. right now, I have at least eight shrimp carrying eggs, some have dropped down to the point I can see them below the body and fluttering around as the mama moves her swimmerettes.. btw, is that spelled correctly ? Spell check thinks all versions of the word are misspelled .

Anybody have a rotifer culture I could start with or know where to get one inexpensively ?


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

I'm sure if you google you'll get instructions on raising green water, it is not hard, a spare tank, a air stone with strong air pump, 24hr light or direct sun light. I haven't done it for a long time but that's how I did it before. It does take time so you probably want to start asap.


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## arc (Mar 11, 2010)

I raised some ghost shrimps a couple of years ago and all you need is the green water. It's sunny enough now that if you use a few plastic or glass containers(use a starter culture or some old leaves) and a sunny window you can get some fast. I won't use rotifers as they need salt I think? I'm not sure about Indian Whiskers but the ghost larval and the young babies were never big enough to eat bbs.

The biggest thing next to food is temperature for me. I found that even a few degrees swing would kill them all. I used a heater set it at 24 and didn't use a strong light for this reason. Not sure if isolating the larvae in their own tank stop the parents from eating them but I didn't want to take the chance.

Good luck with them, always fun to breeding something challenging.


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

Thanks ! Happens I ordered some algae culture from ReefCrew, and a nicer, more helpful company you could not hope to find. They're sending me the algae disc, fertilizer for it, rotifers and enough mature culture to keep them going until mine is ready, plus some brown algae they don't normally sell, but they use it in their lab all the time. No charge for the brown stuff, or shipping, because I told them I needed it yesterday ! Never imagined they'd react as they did, but it sure was nice of them. I will happily get more from them in future.

You are right the rotifers are salt water, but since they are going to be used as food, just like BBS, I don't think it will matter too much. I hope not, because the only other thing that might work would be a basic infusoria culture, and you really never know what you get in those.. even if you start with your own tank water, there's all kinds of things that can get in from the environment we don't even know are there.

I know I can do green water the way you said, but because I am more or less guessing on what the whisker shrimp need, I decided to go with the info that's out there for shrimp farming. One thing they said was vital to larval survival, at least for the tiger shrimp they often raise, was decent levels of the same EFAs, [essential fatty acids], that humans require. Green algaes have some, but the brown has more, so ReefCrew said they'd send some of that too.

So it will be an experiment, the stuff's supposed to be here by noon tomorrow, and I'll get it started asap... and I'm getting a small tank, so I'll hope to cycle it fast with filter squeezings.

I bet the one shrimp with the eggs hanging under her down low is going to burst before I'm ready, but the others are not as far along, so I should be ok for them. I hope. It IS a challenge, but I like this sort of thing, and it would be fun if I got it right, I'd be able to breed more Indian shrimps.. won't pay me much but it would be FUN! Work too, but fun work, not boring work.


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

It does sounds challenging and fun. Keep us posted and post pictures... Good luck.


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

Well, I'm on my way. Got the order from Reefcrew early this morning and they've included some ready to go algae for the rotifers, in case my algae isn't ready in time, I'll have rotifers to feed. Hope they like them.. and I got the small tank from Julie and another is coming from Dave on Saturday, so I'll get one filled and squeeze out the filters, hopefully there will be enough goodies to cycle the tank fast. Then I hope I'll still have egg laden female to put in the tank and hope ! The female whisker shrimp who had dropped her eggs down low hasn't any eggs now, so at least I know that when they drop down that low, hatching is going to be within a few days at most.. I only got these shrimp on Sunday, and she was already fanning those eggs then, I could see them getting lower and lower every day. Yesterday evening I noticed she no longer had eggs, so now I have one clue to hatching time. It's a start. I'll keep you posted how I get on.. if I end up with any live baby shrimp at the end of this I will be thrilled!


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

Fishfur said:


> Well, I'm on my way. Got the order from Reefcrew early this morning and they've included some ready to go algae for the rotifers, in case my algae isn't ready in time, I'll have rotifers to feed. Hope they like them.. and I got the small tank from Julie and another is coming from Dave on Saturday, so I'll get one filled and squeeze out the filters, hopefully there will be enough goodies to cycle the tank fast. Then I hope I'll still have egg laden female to put in the tank and hope ! The female whisker shrimp who had dropped her eggs down low hasn't any eggs now, so at least I know that when they drop down that low, hatching is going to be within a few days at most.. I only got these shrimp on Sunday, and she was already fanning those eggs then, I could see them getting lower and lower every day. Yesterday evening I noticed she no longer had eggs, so now I have one clue to hatching time. It's a start. I'll keep you posted how I get on.. if I end up with any live baby shrimp at the end of this I will be thrilled!


I'm excited just reading your post.... picture, please


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

At the rate Tiger Direct is going, I'll have grown up shrimp before my new camera shows up. Every other thing I've ordered from them has shown up well before the estimated delivery date, but the camera is long overdue.. I must call them and find out what the heck is going on. I'm already a bit ticked I never got pics of the very pregnant shrimp who has now hatched her eggs. Worse comes to worse, maybe they'll let me go pick it up at the store. Hope so. Meantime, just hoping I have a tank ready in time for the next lady who drops her eggs down.


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

Which new camera are you getting?


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

It's a small Canon, I forget the model number at the moment. 12 mp, and a fair capacity for macro, though not like I'd get with DSLR, which I wish desperately I could afford. Though I could always dig my old SLR out of storage and stick it on a tripod.. it has a half decent macro lens, and is partially automated.. not enough to do great fast sport shooting, but hopefully enough to get clear pics of shrimp. Boring, plus cost, to get film developed of course. Tiger Direct lost my first order completely, had no record of it so I missed a sale price.. now they seem to have lost this order too. Arrrggghhh !


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

Well, I've got the little hex tank running, but I have to go get some ammonia to test if it's cycled. But if it has, it's ready to go, and there's another female Whisker whose eggs have started dropping down. However, the algae culture I've got started won't be ready in time for her, I'm afraid, unless I go buy some more freshly made up. Might have to do that.. don't want to waste any learning opportunities ! 

I also need to find a small round shrimp net. Anybody know where I can get one of those?

My other two small tanks both need repairs, which I must see to double quick. The smaller of them needs a new pane of glass, while the 5G simply needs resealing. It has a small but steady leak from at least one corner. Guess I'll have to get a good razor scraper, to remove the old silicone properly, to allow for a proper reseal job.

sigh.. as Gilda Radnor so rightly said, It's always Something !


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

Well, my little shrimp raising venture is off to a start at last. Scotmando kindly donated some primo filter crap to get the tank cycled, overnight, more or less. What DO you feed those fish, man ? 

I got one of the two small glass tanks resealed, so with the acrylic hex tank, that's two small tanks fairly heavily planted, with wood and rocks, etc. Sponge filter in the brood tank, and I turned off the corner canister filter, as I didn't think getting sucked into that would help larval survival. 

And I finally managed to catch 3 female Blue Claw Whisker shrimp who are 'in egg' and transfer them into the brood tank today. They are slick little devils, I've been trying to catch them for days now. Brood tank is also loaded with mosses, some of which has a fair bit of algae in it. The ladies appear to like it, I saw two of them arguing over a shred of moss covered in algae ! You know, I swear those shrimp watch me.. if one is facing the front of the tank and I am looking at her, if I move my head to one side or another to try and see the status of her eggs, she moves the same way, keeping those beady eyes pointed right at me.. it's kind of creepy. Also makes it hard to tell how the eggs are doing.. cause they keep facing right at me, rather than letting me see them in profile. 

My algae culture is cookin' and all I need now is to order a rotifer sieve, as it turns out the solution they come in is loaded with not only salt, but also nitrates and other things I would not want in a little 5 G tank.

Temps are equal, param's are as equal as I can manage according to the water tests. I did forget to get a TDS meter, but I will get that this week, as I think it probably matters to the shrimp if not most water dwellers that the TDS be reasonably equal when you change their living quarters from one place to another.

So now I just have to wait and see what happens when the eggs vanish from under the ladies bellies. None of them are hanging down the legs yet, so who knows how long it will be until they hatch, but I will try and keep track of the timing. There is at least one ghost shrimp still in my 30 G also carrying eggs, but she is even wilier and quicker than her larger sisters and has evaded all attempts to transfer her to the brood tank. She's not far along, so hopefully I'll catch her before she pops. So wish me luck and I'll keep you posted how it goes.

Update to this starter info: Caught one more Whisker shrimp, and the elusive Ghost shrimp as well. Feeding time brings them out into view ! Both now in the brood tank. I get such a kick out of watching the greedy things grab a whole crab bite the moment it sinks, then later they drop them when they find they are too hard yet to eat. But they go back quickly enough to check them out again. They appear to prefer them to algae tablets. I've also noticed that many of the Whisker shrimp seem to be taking on some some colour, mainly along their backs. Sort of a orangey 'cooked lobster' shade, though they are still quite transparent, the colour is attractive. Don't see even a hint of blue in the claws or anywhere else. Don't know if it's diet, maturity or the fact the water has a lot of wood leachate in it, but it's interesting to see them colour up.

I think that might be all the pregnant ladies I have on hand. Only problem is I've planted the brood tank so thickly I cannot see the blighted beasts to assess the progress of their eggs. Dangit !.. and my modem is dying, so I have to go exchange it tomorrow for one that isn't about nine years old.


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

Very nice progress, I hope you take lots of pictures in all stages and post a sticky. This will be very helpful for people wanting to try the same thing.


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

Guys, when I got home tonight, about ten minutes ago, btw, guess what I found in my brood tank ? BABY SHRIMP !!!!!!! A whole bunch of them, nowhere near even 1/8 inch long ,all hanging head down in the water column, but all morphed into tiny adult form.. that's not even two days! Please let some live !!!! I so tired, but I had to post this.. and great meeting.. sorry I had to leave early. Looking forward to next time !


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

Btw, don't know if these are baby ghost or baby whiskers.. won't know until they grow a lot more, but still. BABY SHRIMPS !!! I guess they liked that brown algae crap I fed them. YAHOO !


Btw, size wise, they actually are just about 1/8 inch long, but barely 1/32 of an inch deep through the upper body and maybe 1/16 of an inch between the eyes.. which are so tiny I can just make them out, minute dark specks on the sides of the heads. Many are swimming around, many still hanging head down.. snow white in colour, at this point in time. One of the mama shrimp who dropped her eggs a couple days ago has moulted in that tank too.. I caught the ghost and one whisker that had let go their eggs and transferred them back into the big tank. The moulted one must be hiding, I can't find her, and the last whisker shrimp is still carrying eggs.. so I'll have to wait and see about her. The ghost shrimp was the first one to drop her eggs, but I just can't tell what these are.. they have a very distinct sharp bend in the back.. but so do the whiskers. I really do have to get to bed, but honestly, I am so excited to see these little guys ! I just hope some of them live.. I was going to start hatching BBS tomorrow, thinking I must have at least another couple of days to wait for anything to show up.. so now I'll have to go get some more green algae and get moving on the BBS, so the little guys won't starve. Wow, I really didn't expect to see results so fast. Guess I must have done something right .


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

Congratulations... big progress and great success.


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

One day later, to the best of my ability to count, there are around two dozen shrimplets in the tank. It is hard, in fact, it's impossible to tell if there are any new ones since the first lot showed up. If I had not been so tired, I'd have removed the first batch to a grow out tank and then I'd have been able to tell if I got new ones showing up. Oh well, never mind. I got some Walter worms from Scotmando, he very kindly donated a small culture, when I delivered his Trident fern.. so maybe the babies will be able to eat those after awhile. Right now, they are so tiny, I think algae is the only way to go.. so I am glad Brian at Reef Crew so kindly gave me a couple little bottles of brown algae, cause that is what I've been feeding them so far. I dilute a few drops in a cup of tank water and then slowly pour it in, and then I check the parameters because every time I add algae, the nitrites rise. So I stick an airtube in the sponge filter uplift tube and remove about a quarter of the water and replace it with fresh. 

That gets the nitrites down to a safer level but I haven't been able to get it down to zero since I started feeding the brown algae. I am afraid to do a huge water change now I have the tiny little guys in there. 

I think I probably would do better with at least a ten G.. be easier to manage params in larger volumes of water, but once I am fairly sure I've got all the hatchlings I'm going to get, I will move them to a grow out tank.. or I will try to anyway. They are so tiny it will be hard to find them, though so far, they seem to prefer hanging in the water column to anything else. Hopefully once they are large enough to eat something other than liquid algae, catching them will be possible. Right now, I don't think even the brine shrimp net would hold them.
Interestingly, to me at least, is that I find one of my horned nerites sitting on the tank rim when the nitrites rise. It's got a shell deformity, so it's easy to see it's the same one every time. Doesn't seem to bother the snail, and it goes back in the water after the change.
Thus, so far, so good, but I've got a LONG way to go ! And Tiger Direct finally gave me my money back for the camera they didn't ship and have promised to try and expedite a new one, so hopefully I'll be able to post some pics soon. I wish I had some of the little guys now.. they're so darn cute.


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## jesse (Aug 11, 2011)

babies babies babies


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## laurahmm (Apr 1, 2010)

That's fantastic....congratulations on the amazing news!


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

Thanks.. I am kind of pumped about it. I just hope now I can feed them well enough that they live and grow. Got some Walter worms, now I find out Banana worms are half the size, so I want to try them too.. both kinds are smaller than BBS, and I WISH my darn camera would arrive, I'd get pics, they are so CUTE ! Very hard to see, though the brood tank is heavily planted and they do show up against the green.. just hanging, heads down, most of them relatively near the surface. Still feeding the brown algae, it's all I have for them right now. Just have to hope and wait, see if I get more of them in the next few days. I sure hope so.


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

Well, so far, things are looking sort of dim.. there are far fewer shrimplets now than I started with, though that was not unexpected, it is depressing. However the ones that are left have visibly grown and I can see their tiny legs now. Still spending most of their time hanging near the surface while the lights are on.. and I think they sink to the bottom when it's dark. I can see them rise, almost as though they are on elevators.. when I turn on the light in the morning. Kind of cool to watch. Maybe about 8 left, might be one or two more hiding behind plants. Waiting game now to see if any make it to a decent size. Hopefully more of the ghosts will get berried again. I think these must be ghosts. I read up on amano shrimp raising. Their larval stage lasts much longer, nearly a month, so it might be the Whiskers are still going to morph, just not soon, or it might be they do need brackish water. I don't know if I'm up for trying that next time or not, assuming I get more berried Whiskers as well. Have to wait 'n see, but I will try feeding them banana worms as soon as I pick them up.. see if they can take those. I think they must need some live foods by now. Keep you posted.


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

Hang in there, you have done better than most, if not all of us.


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

Well, I may not have so many shrimplets as I started with, but the ones I have are most surely growing steadily. I can see eyes, most distinctly and the long front leg is clear, though not the claw on it, and the body is now clearly discernible, tail, thorax, the sharp back bend and I can see them flexing the body to swim. Larger in size for sure. And I did some more research on food.. though I found the info on a site about FW clams. I think I may well be able to feed them the phytoplankton that is sold for marine inverts. It's the right size, and so long as it has no nitrates or other undesirable elements, it should feed the shrimp, and it should also feed my fan shrimp and definitely the clams.. seems clams do not feed on finely ground flakes as the LFS claimed they could, though they do feed on free floating algae. However, it seems they need a very high concentration of it, basically too green to see through, to get enough nutrients. So they need phytoplankton to survive. So I'll get some of that and see how it goes. If it works, I may have a better shot at the next load of eggs, assuming I get any.. and if it can feed corals, I'll bet it can feed larval shrimps too. And if I end up trying a brackish set up for the next round of Whisker shrimp eggs, it will work for that too.. might have better luck if it turns out the whisker larvae simply have a longer larval life than ghosts do.


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## arktixan (Mar 30, 2010)

Pictures darn it!
Pictures!!!

Camera better arrive soon!


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

Yeah, I know. I am so frustrated with the service I've NOT gotten from Tiger Direct I will never deal with them again ! 

Down to only 2 or 3 shrimplets, sigh. Had to do a modest water change last night as nitrites were, again, too high, and they do not seem to care for water changes, even though I do my best to match the new water to the old, and suck it out slowly with an air hose inserted into the uplift tube from the sponge filter. Clearly, this sort of enterprise requires a tank larger than 5G, so the params' stay more stable. One more lesson learned. Since I did not really expect to get any shrimplets in the first place, and it WAS very much an experiment, I suppose I ought not to complain.. but it's depressing seeing fewer and fewer little guys as time goes on. However, I have learned a great deal in a very short time, and who knows, these last few might make it yet. The INSTANT that camera shows up I will take pics, if there is anything left to take pics of.


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

A wee bit of cheerier news. There are more than 3 shrimplets left. I guess they're just easier to see after dark under the lamplight. Looks like six or seven, and I fed them some banana worms tonight and at least one shrimplet snagged a worm ! Super fast reaction from the shrimplet, no time to see if the others got worms or not. And I got some phytoplankton from BA's, so that should be good food for any larvae that may still be in the brood tank, and also make my clams happy. I also have more berried ghost shrimp, so with any luck at all, by the time they are ready to drop their eggs, I will have another algae culture ready to to for them as well as the phyto food. I may yet manage to raise a crop of ghosts, though whether there are any Whisker larvae remains to be seen. So that was a nice end to the day !


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

Sadly, I cannot find any shrimplets today.. but I since I also put more berried ghost females in the tank, I am wondering now if they might have eaten their kids ? For shame if they did. And there were two female Whiskers in there that I finally managed to catch tonight and put back in the main tank who may also have been snacking, they dropped their eggs some time ago now.

On another unrelated note, something I noticed recently on some of the ghost shrimp. All are female, but some have a very bright orange, don't know what you'd call it, a collar maybe ?, at the joint of the long front legs just above the pincer claws. Not all of them have this orange band, but many of them do. First time I've noticed it. Wonder why they don't all have it ? It kind of looks like they are wearing sweat bands !

But back to the original programme.. with luck there will be more shrimplets as the berried ladies drop their eggs. Another odd thing.. tonight while I was searching the water column for any sign of shrimplets, I noticed that the water seems to have a lot of tiny white particles in it. It is crystal clear, these particles seem suspended, and some appear to be moving slightly, not with the slight current. I have never seen anything quite like it before.. and they were not there yesterday. 

I have seen a few of what I think are nematodes, but these are not nematodes, and also some truly minute white specks on the glass that hop around like fleas.. another tiny water creature of some kind, but I'd need a microscope to get a real look at them. But again, they are not the specks I'm talking about.

Do banana worms live in the water column if they are not eaten ? They are the only thing I've added to the tank other than shrimp that were alive.

At first I thought these things were just debris, but there's too much of it and the filter sponge has not been disturbed. I am wondering if these white specks might, just possibly, be the first sign of Whisker shrimp babies ? No way to tell but to observe. 

I am sad the last of the first hatch have vanished but then, it was always an experiment and I learned a great deal in a very short time. Hopefully I will have better success with subsequent hatches.. I find I really am hoping the odd little specks turn out to be baby shrimps... I will keep you posted if anything comes of it.


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

Copepod or seed shrimp? See this link (http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/shrimp-other-invertebrates/40061-whats-bug-how-recognize-them.html).

Hope your baby shrimps are just hiding, I have no idea if ghost shrimps will eat their youngs since I have no experience with them, a lesson learned?


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

Boy do I hope the the shrimplets are just hiding.. they were 3 times the size of the day they first appeared but that is not saying much, sadly. I don't know for sure if the new pregnant ladies ate them or not, but there were six or seven on Wednesday night before I went to bed.. and then none this morning. Usually they pop up from the bottom as soon the light goes on and they float just below the surface most of the time. And for some reason they prefer a section of the tank that is more toward the filter end than the other.. all of them hung out within a few inches of the same spot every day I saw them. But maybe I'll get lucky and find a few are still in there.. if not, I should have some more when the girls drop their eggs. At least one looks to be very close to doing so.

And thanks for the link.. but except for the nematodes, that I am fairly sure of, the little jumping things I'm seeing are not listed, nor anything that resembles the specks I'm seeing. But I read a while ago that banana worms can live as long as a day in the water and microworms up to a week, maybe more. So I may be seeing left over banana worms.. though so far as I know they don't really swim, they sink. Some don't like them for fry food for this reason. they don't wiggle and attract the fry to their location. They just sink fast.. which is what they did when I put them in. And I didn't put many in either.. as few as I could manage. They're so small, it is impossible to just grab a couple of them.
Back to waiting to see what comes next I guess. I ought to be getting good at that by now don't you think ?


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

Well, at least ONE shrimplet is still hanging in. Just caught sight of him. Apparently, they are past the stage where they 'hang' at the surface, because he was near the bottom of the tank this time. So I hope he's got pals I just haven't found yet. If they are like this one, they are now actively hunting for food and swimming all over the tank. 

When I saw this guy just now, I dropped in a few banana worms, to see if he would find them. He was near bottom and heading lower when I dropped the first few at the surface. At first, nothing happened. I dropped in a few more, and then quite smoothly and quickly he moved up the column, then turned when he was close to the worm cluster. I actually saw him reach out and snag a worm ! He clutched it to his chest and it looked like he was eating it. He is now nearly a quarter inch long, tail and all, more than double the length of when I first saw them, but so slender it is quite hard to see one unless in a clear water patch, where the plants tend to show him up. 

Mature ghost shrimp appear to be ignoring him, so maybe his pals are still in there. I can just see the barest hint of the super hair fine legs he is using to grab food items, in the exact way adults do. I hope there are at least a few others now hunting. 

It was absolutely riveting to watch him rise to the top almost as if he was being pulled on a string, and then seek out and grab a worm in less than a heartbeat. My current thinking is that a number of the early losses may well have been food related. Maybe just not enough of it in the right place at time they are not strong enough to actively hunt. 

Now at least I know not to expect to see them where I've got used to seeing them. I am also wondering about moulting. Obviously they've been moulting, it is the only way they can grow once they have a shell, could it be that moulting takes a heavy toll when they are so very, very tiny ? 

Today's survivor has obviously grown, in length & depth. The tiniest structures, like the legs, are barely visible but indistinct. The only appendage I've been able to see up 'til now has been a curved one that to me resembles a coat hook. Does not seem to move much, but without a 'scope or very strong magnifying glass, I can't make out what it truly is. I'd assumed the longest front leg, but since it rarely seems to move, maybe not. 

Ive decided to call the orange bands I'm seeing on some of the adult female ghosts, 'wrist bands' for now. Don't know why I didn't notice them before but I guess I was too focused on the eggs and babies. Can't tell how many have it, but once they start dropping eggs and I remove them to the big tank, I'll try to keep track of whether it's one only or more than that. A small detail, and yet, an interesting one. Maybe I'll need a new short form.. OWBGS.. orange wrist band ghost shrimp . Another thing I notice about them is that they have pale eyes, compared to the Whiskers. Whiskers have beady black eyes, and Ghost eyes are also very dark, but seem to have a white ring around them that makes them appear paler overall. Makes it easy to distinguish a Ghost from a Whisker if the Ghost is larger than usual or the Whisker is smaller.

Whatever those specks were I saw yesterday seem to be gone now.. so I am thinking they might have been banana worms that were not eaten and lived a few days.


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

Turns out there is still one Whisker shrimp in the brood tank. maybe the one that moulted, I guess I counted wrong. Maybe she is why most of the remaining shrimplets appear to be missing.. if they are not simply hiding. Hope some of the berried females drop their eggs soon, I really want another crack at this.


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

Well, I have just seen a new shrimp in my 30 G tank that I am certain is a juvenile Ghost shrimp. So it must have come from one of the berried females who dropped eggs in there before I set up the brood tank. Only saw one, but it's about a half inch long.. and obviously managed to survive on what was available to it. I have to wonder whether most of the larva that hatched in there ended up as clam food or maybe fan shrimp food ? But it's very encouraging to know they are able to live long enough to get to a decent size.. gives me hope for the eggs now waiting to drop in the brood tank, and now I not only have better food for them, the tank is also becoming well populated with a variety of tiny critters that new morphed shrimp could likely eat, like tiny nematodes and one or two other things of that size. All so small I'd need a microscope to ID them properly.

Also have another Whisker shrimp in the 30 G that is heavily berried, so clearly, shrimp are successfully breeding in that tank. And I know quite a few have moulted successfully. I've seen the shed shells and seen shrimp carrying around pieces of shed shells, and eating them. 

Even my mystery snails are starting to reproduce, so I hope that means I'm doing at least some things right. Now I have to decide if I want to try setting up a brackish tank to see if the Whisker shrimp will hatch under brackish conditions, as so far I have seen no signs of larvae from them in the brood tank. At least four Whiskers dropped eggs in there, and while I have not given up on them yet, not knowing how long they may remain larval, I am wondering if they do indeed need brackish water, like Amano shrimp do. I guess the only way to find out is to try, but where in heck am I going to put another tank ????


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

I have more shrimplets ! A bunch more, but I fed them worms as soon as I saw them and they all sank down into the lower part of the tank where I can't see them. The remaining pregnant females went nuts for the worms.. grabbing them as fast as they could as they sank.. so I hope the shrimplets were equally pleased with the offering. Hope I have better luck raising this lot - at least I have live food I know they can eat now.

There are even more shrimplets and so far as I can tell only one pregnant female left in the tank, but she's not ready to drop yet. I am doing one thing differently this time. I got some 100 micron filter fabric and stitched a cover onto the canister filter that I didn't have running the last time. It is running, but quite slowly, so not very much current from it. Main current is still from the sponge filter. I was having a lot of trouble keeping nitrites down without the canister filter running. 

With this very fine cover preventing anything from being sucked in, it appears that so far, so good, but the latest water test shows that having the canister going appears to have changed the params. Ph is down, hardness is down too. I do use distilled water to top up with, but that shouldn't cause the water to become softer, should it ?

It does have wood in it but it doesn't even leach colour any more. Before, with only the sponge filter, the tank water stayed pretty much the same as my 30G, but nitrites kept rising, so I had to do more WC. Why would a simple canister filter cause these changes, or do you think it is the wood ? Loads of plants also, the frogbit, water sprite and giant duckweed are all growing, well, like weeds. So is everything else that's planted in this tank. Hard to see the shrimplets now with all the hanging roots but they're there and occupying many more levels of the tank than the first lot did, so I think the floating plants are good for them, letting them use more of the tank and feel safe.


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

I must have missed at least one shrimplet from the first batch.. I just saw one swimming quite strongly across the width of the tank, about six inches down from the surface. He's at least a quarter inch long, with distinctly visible legs, which can't be seen without magnification on the newly morphed ones. So he must have been hiding.. though honestly, something that small doesn't have to try too hard, even in a 5 g tank. So it's nice to know at least one survived and it gives me real hope for at least some of this next lot that just morphed.


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

I rearranged my 30 G tank today. In the process I discovered at least a half dozen juvie Ghost shrimp. I think I had been mistaking them for Snowballs, they are about that size now, but Snowballs don't have that sharp back bend. Clearly, they were able to survive in the 30 G tank, though the number of juvies is still quite small compared to the number of eggs that must have been released. 

While I was watching them, I noticed that they all appear to have a pair of dark orange spots on their tails. One on each side, easy to see since at this stage the tails are as clear as glass. At least some of them also appear to have that dark orange wrist band on the joint above the claws on the long front legs, which I've seen on a very few adult Ghost females. I have never observed the tail dots before and wonder if they are a feature of juvies only, that will vanish as they age. 

The shrimplets seem to be doing quite well, though I have no real idea of their numbers. They are swimming and feeding just like the adults, I've seen them walking on a plant leaf, picking at it. Saw another picking at root hairs on a frogbit, and one appeared to be picking at the biofilm on the glass. 

I have started a small used Fluval power filter in this tank, mainly for the micro crabs,because they come from a river environment and I thought they might like it, but the shrimplets seem to enjoy the stronger current as well. They swim into it and then let themselves be carried along for a bit, then swim into it again. I stitched a 100 micron cover over the intake grates on the filter to prevent anything from being sucked into it. Though since I have found so many more survivors in the main tank, clearly at least some of them managed to avoid being sucked into the filter or else they were able to get out again. I will continue to observe and see if the colour features remain into adulthood or not. They move their legs so fast while swimming it is hard to see if they all have the orange wrist bands or not, but they all seem to have the orange tail spots. I do wonder if this colour feature indicates, perhaps, a subspecies of Ghost shrimp ? If I can, I intend to select for it with future broods, though it will take some doing as at this point, I still can't tell a male Ghost from a female Ghost unless the female is berried. Next round I think I'll keep the females separate after they drop their eggs, if only to try and find an way to differentiate males from females without the obvious egg clue.

Tiger Direct tells me my camera is backordered, AGAIN ! I swear I will never, ever buy anything else from these people, once this transaction is finally over. It's been nearly two months, and this is the second time they've backordered after assuring me they had stock.


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

Hi Fishfur, so if I'm not mistaken, you didn't do anything special in the 30G and you got survivors?

For the camera, why don't you just cancel the transaction and pick one up from a store? If you wait patiently Future shop or Best Buy have sales once in a while that are pretty decent.


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

Great minds think alike.. I am going to cancel if it is still on backorder today.. and get it from Canon.. I have missed so many pic opportunities, it is making me CRAZY !

And yes ! I absolutely have a handful of survivors in the 30 G tank ! Knew I had one, but I was surprised to find he had pals. No special measures, no special food, filter running all the time and the water pump too. Despite all that, and the presence of a few dozen adult shrimp, two danios and some loaches, they managed to hide successfully and find enough to eat and they grew. As near as I can count there are at least six of these in the 30 G, just about the size of a male Snowball at this time. They all seem to have those cool orange dots on their tails. 

I also have quite a few shrimplets in the brood tank that appear to be doing well. They are now much larger than the first batch managed to grow, and I think that has to be in part because I removed the females as soon as I could. There is one Whisker female in there I haven't been able to catch, but I guess she can't catch all the shrimplets.

Today I saw one dead shrimplet, floating toward a filter, but the rest are growing visibly and behaving much like their parents. Amusing to watch, very FAST, jumping about like fleas, faster than the eye can follow. 

Water tests show the brood tank's water has become much softer, with Ph having dropped as well. I find this puzzling, but the water's like crystal & shrimplets seem to like it. 

The little Fluval filter provides a much stronger current. Shrimplets seem to enjoy it as much as their parents do. At first it was very noisy and splashed badly, so I wedged two short pieces of air tubing into the output opening. Now very quiet, no splashing, and a much softer landing of the water stream. Just lucky the tubing fit into the hole and stay there without having to be fastened in any way.


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

My camera just arrived !!! YAY>>> going to try for shrimplet pics. They are all over the tank now, about a quarter inch long, most of them, and obviously feeding just like the adults do, off the glass, plants and substrate everywhere. I saw one grab a banana worm last night and he didn't let go, so I have to assume he ate it. I think I might get up to dozen or more from this batch. Pics will be forthcoming.


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## razoredge (Dec 31, 2011)

Fishfur said:


> My camera just arrived !!! YAY>>> going to try for shrimplet pics. They are all over the tank now, about a quarter inch long, most of them, and obviously feeding just like the adults do, off the glass, plants and substrate everywhere. I saw one grab a banana worm last night and he didn't let go, so I have to assume he ate it. I think I might get up to dozen or more from this batch. Pics will be forthcoming.


Looking forward to seeing it.


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

Just to wind up this thread, I appear to have at least a couple of dozen, possibly quite a few more than that, juvie Ghost shrimp, that have now grown to to between an inch to a half inch in size. They eat whatever they can get their claws on and generally appear to be thriving. I've moved about a dozen into another small tank, and will move them all, as I can catch the little suckers. They are quick ! I have 3 more berried females in an external breeder box, one about to let her eggs go. I've noticed they turn a noticeable shade of green when they are near hatching. There was a fourth one, but she let hers go, apparently, while I was doing a WC, so who knows how many of her eggs will hatch ? But the brood tank, even at just 5 G, has remained remarkable stable with the addition of the small fluval filter, and it looks as though I will have possibly another couple dozen or more baby Ghosts in the next week or two. I thought I saw one tiny new morph today, maybe from that female who let go during the WC.. have to see if he has any pals. Going on size comparisons, I have at least 3 different hatchings growing up, so many of the first morphs I thought were lost must have survived, but I just could not see them. So it's been a fairly successful experiment. It has had it's ups and downs, but overall, for someone who never knew hobby shrimp of any kind even existed six months ago, I can't complain. Hoping to try a brackish tank one of these days to see if I have any similar luck raising Whisker babies.. if I do, might try Amanos. But it's clearly not that difficult to raise Ghost shrimp. They hardly need feeding once they morph, while they are larval I fed green water and phyto plankton for marine inverts, and that seems to have been successful. Then again the ones who survived in my main tank got no special feeding at all and still managed to grow up, those are now nearly adults. When they are newly morphed, they eat biofilm, as near as I can see, until they're getting to about a 1/4 inch long. By then they're hunting all over and picking at everything, just like the scavengers they are. I find it interesting that about half of them seem to have the orange markings, on the wrist over the front claws and one on each outer tail segment, while half appear to have no colour other than the blackish/brownish stripes and dots they get on their bodies as they mature. Most of my adults have taken on an orangish shade to their shells, either with maturity or maybe it's just what I feed the tank ? Mostly sinking pellets for crustaceans and sinking algae pellets, but I've seen them eat micro worms too. 

I will soon have Ghost shrimp for sale, since I won't be able to keep them all if they continue to breed like this. It's been a real learning experience and mostly quite a lot of fun. They may not be as pretty as the many brightly coloured dwarf shrimps are, but they have a lot of interesting behaviours and swim constantly, which makes them fun to watch. Even in the lot I am growing out now, there are a number of variations in body colours, though very slight. Some near snow white, some yellowish, some a bit orangish, some greyish. The oldest are starting to show some slight body markings too.

I'd still like to get some cherries, but I'll keep the Ghosts too. They have been quite rewarding and I think they deserve better treatment than they typically get. I know most of them end up as food, which is kind of a shame, because they can be quite entertaining and they are a very good cleanup crew to have in a tank.


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

Happy ending that doesn't really end? Good stuff.

I'm not sure why your water becomes softer, what's in the canister? Are you doing more or less WCs? Could be your tap has changed parameters? Who knows... maybe your shrimps/plants are growing so well they suck up so much minerals.


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

The wonders of chemistry in action, I guess. I do have a lot of wood in the tank, but I didn't think it could have that much of an effect on the Ph. Such rocks as I have in there should not have an any effect, but if they did, I'd expect it to raise Ph, not lower it. I should test the tap water, just to see what it's basic parameters are now. But I am doing larger WC now, and a bit more frequently, partly because of the heat and also because the tank is essentially overstocked just now. With the 3 filters running, so far, no problems but I am going to have to either sell some of the Whisker shrimp or give them their own tank, which I don't quite have room for just now. Nobody seems to be able to say what their mature size should be. While they are moulting less often now, which leads me to think they may be more or less adult size, and if so, they're not enormous, but they are a bit pushy, mostly with each other over food. They haven't damaged anything other than the newborn Snowballs when I first got them and a Whisker got into the breeder net, but if it turned out they grow another inch or so, then I think they'd be a risk for the young Ghosts and the Snowballs both. They ignore the fish, near as I can see, unless the fish has died, in which case they eat it with relish. But meantime, the Ghost experiment did have a happy ending and as you say, an ongoing one, which is really nice for me.


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