# Sticky  What type of co2 is right for you



## Calmer

Here are 6 ways to increase carbon to underwater plants:

Positive attributes (+) Negative attributes (-)

1) Seachem Flourish Excel (Polycycloglutaraldehyde)

+ adds carbon to the aquarium.
+ overdosing kills certain types of algae.
+ surface agitation will not impact the effectiveness.
+ no extra equipment.
+ doesn't affect ph.
+ can be added with other ways of co2 injection
- known to kill Egeria Densa (Anachris) and Vallisneria.
- somewhat costly for larger aquariums.
- daily dosing needed.
- overdosing may kill invertebrates.

http://www.seachem.com/products/product_pages/FlourishExcel.html

2) Yeast Method

+ ingredients are cheap
+ very cheap to make your own.
+ easy to DIY.
- surface agitation will lower the effectiveness.
- goes fast in the first few days and then slows down. 
- needs solution changed once every two weeks or so.
- needs a way to inject co2 into the tank (Reactor).
- a mess due to possibly spilling bottle(s) containing sugar 
yeast water.
- not very efficient for larger aquariums
- FUNKY smell when it gets onto fabrics

http://www.qsl.net/w2wdx/aquaria/diyco2.html

3) Co2 Pressurized Injection

+ lasts a long time between refills.
+ refills are cheap.
+ regulated steady co2 injection.
+ a timer can shut off co2 injection via solenoid.
+ can achieve high levels of co2.
+ most efficient 
+ best solution for larger aquariums
+ can be used on all sizes of aquariums
- surface agitation will lower the effectiveness
- high pressure tank.
- can lower ph.
- expensive.
- needs a way to inject co2 into the tank (Reactor).
- need a vehicle to transport the heavy cylinder; not TTC  
friendly
- pH controller option is another investment
- finding leaks with soap/water or windex method

http://www.aquariaplants.com/pressurizedco2.htm

http://www.bestaquariumregulator.com/CO2.html

4) Carbo Plus CO2 Electrolysis

+ no high pressure tank.
+ surface agitation will not impact the effectiveness.
- removes carbonates (kH) from your tank to make CO2.
- blocks last about 3 months.
- expensive.
- lowers GH
- carbon bar is delicate and "dissolves" unevenly
- compression spring contact corrodes and you have to 
replace the entire electrolyitc assembly.

http://www.bigalsonline.ca/StoreCat...block?&query=+carbo+plus+&queryType=0&offset=

http://gtaaquaria.com/forum/showthread.php?t=428

5) Co2 Fizz Tabs

- considered useless.

http://www.junglelabs.com/pages/details.asp?item=JP800

6) Fish Respiration

- by adding fish as a source of co2 will not be enough to make substantial amounts of co2.


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## pat3612

Great info this should be a sticky. Pat


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## Calmer

Thanks Pat  

If any one has anything good to add on this subject then please let me know and I'll edit it in


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## Chris S

Should mention that Excel has also been known to cause death or discomfort to invertebrates (ie. shrimp).


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## hojimoe

Chris S said:


> Should mention that Excel has also been known to cause death or discomfort to invertebrates (ie. shrimp).


was going to mention that here


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## wtac

To add:

Yeast: 
- FUNKY smell when it gets onto fabrics...yeeesh

Carbo-Plus: I wote a post on this awhile back
- lowers GH
- carbon bar is delicate and "dissolves" unevenly
- compression spring contact corrodes and you have to replace the entire electrolyitc assembly.

CO2 gas:
- locations for refills/exhange generally are not very convenient locations if you rely on transit.
- pH controller option is another investment

Just off the top of my head


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## Chris S

Press. co2:

leaking! My god, I'm having some troubles finding my leak (3 tanks running off a manifold). Very annoying.


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## jrs

FYI

I was using a champaigne yeast/sugar mixture when I was doing it. The end product tastes nothing like champaigne 

SERIOUSLY LOL


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## Calmer

Yes I have heard that but my red cherry shrimp do fine in a planted 38 gal. that I use Flourish Excel in. They reproduce well and are normally active. I have seen no difference between that tank and the other two non excel tanks. I have used the recommended dosage for well over a year.

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/seachem/39679-excel.html
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/...s/31003-does-overdose-excel-kill-inverts.html

It does seem that overdosing may kill invertebrates though


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## Calmer

Good job, thanks  
Everyone has made really good points that I never thought of that I have added above. 
I hope it doesn't confuse people but there are so many variables with co2.


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## gunnerx

I'm using Flourish Excel in my 29 g and the RCS seem to be doing fine. I was going to go press. co2 but I might have to rethink that. Within 2 months the tank has been full of growth. If co2 means twice the amount of growth, that means twice or MORE work from me pruning the plants. I already have more than enough plants in my living room to take care of.


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## Ciddian

stickayed! *joy* thanks guys.. excellent post!


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## Chris S

Calmer said:


> Yes I have heard that but my red cherry shrimp do fine in a planted 38 gal. that I use Flourish Excel in. They reproduce well and are normally active. I have seen no difference between that tank and the other two non excel tanks. I have used the recommended dosage for well over a year.
> 
> http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/seachem/39679-excel.html
> http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/...s/31003-does-overdose-excel-kill-inverts.html
> 
> It does seem that overdosing may kill invertebrates though


I used to use Excel as my source of co2 and I had ghost and amano shrimp. I never say any ill effects either. Those posts are also my source of information regarding ill effects - but again, I've never seen any myself.


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## Calmer

gunnerx, you are exactly right.



> If co2 means twice the amount of growth, that means twice or MORE work from me pruning the plants.


If your tank is performing well then why go with heavy fertilizing and co2 to the max. The simpler methods are slower and if you have a problem like algae for example then you have more time to correct it before it becomes a big problem.


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## twoheadedfish

this is awesome.

i suggest a clean up and a sticky.

then a beer, because that's hard work.


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## bambi

tried a few setup, I think CO2 tank is the best way to go.


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## binhle

*introducing co2 into tank*

There's also a product called CO2 Booster. I saw it at BA, does it effectively add co2 into the water?


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## joe

*Help algae problem*

Hey Ive been into plants for a while, i am burrently growing tiwain ferns and about 10 different types of mosses.
I am trying to figure out the perfect balence for my tank (75gallon)

i have some weird algaes that have just started growing and i dont know why

I have c02 and water softener in the tank i recently took out the water softener to see if it will make a difference.

Some of my mosses are getting covered by like a brownish dirt, it looks like their dying but if i clean them they look fine, my driftwoods is getting greyish stains

i also have one type of moss that is being coverd completly in a dark bluish green moss.

Any help/knowledge on this would be greatly appreciated 
Btw i have shrimp so no heavy metals
Cheers


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## solarz

Regarding DIY Yeast CO2:

It's been my experience that a mixture can easily last a month or two. My last mixture had been in early December 2011, and it's still producing bubbles, albeit the amount produced is relatively small. Still, it keeps my plants growing and my tank free of hair algae. I only need to clean the glass every 2 weeks to remove the accumulated growth of green spot algae, which is easy with a good magnetic scraper. I should mention that I use this with a 20 gallon tank.

The key with DIY CO2 lies in the diffuser. I used a piece of disposable chopstick jammed up the airline tube, and it works wonders. Very little pressure is needed to produce a fine mist of bubbles, much smaller than those ceramic diffusers. Most times, if the mixture stops bubbling, all I need to do is swirl it, and it will start up again, often seemingly stronger than before and lasting a good few weeks. I can usually "reboot" it this way twice before the mixture is completely exhausted.

No need to worry about clogging: the chopstick is full of tiny holes, and it will slowly decompose in the water. A typical piece will easily last 3 or 4 months, and I end up replacing it out of aesthetics (it turns black) rather than because it stopped working.

As for pressurized CO2, I've read that you need to be careful when the bottle is almost out of gas: it can result in the bottle dumping all the CO2 into your tank in a short length of time, possibly resulting in livestock death.

The good thing with Yeast CO2 is that unless you go crazy with it, you'll never run into the danger of overdosing.


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## bob

*CO2 is complicated*

This is a very good posting discussion. Frankly, I have found the whole CO2 thing complicated and expensive...and I have gone the cheap DIY sugar, water and yeast route.
Pressurized CO2 seems too complicated and expensive although I'm sure it is more effective than what i have been doing. I must say, that even the little bit of CO2 I add to my 55 gallon tank makes a difference. Sure, I don't get the "pearling" that you would get in a brightly-lit properly controlled CO2 environment, but then again that perfect environment is almost never found in nature.
My advice is if you can add any CO2 no matter how little it will help.


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## FlyingHellFish

I think in the near future we will see a cheap alternative to Co2. Gone will be the days of the $300 Dual Stage Regulators with $150 needle valves. 

There is a whole industry that rely on cheap Co2 solutions, those who play paintball should know.

Give it a few more years, I'm sure we're see more products like the Fluval Co2 kit but with the ability to use CGA cylinders. 

DIY is the best way to go in terms of skill level and money, but I think having a bottle full of yeast rotting near my tank will take away from the beauty. Who wants an aquarium meth lab near their tank. It's the just the fact that you have to explain to people why there a bottle full of piss colour water with tubes leading to a beautiful fish tank.


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## binhle

*chopsticks?*

can you elaborate on the use of chopsticks? very interesting, I like to try that method. what kind of chopstick? how far up the air line does it need to go?


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## charlie1

binhle said:


> can you elaborate on the use of chopsticks? very interesting, I like to try that method. what kind of chopstick? how far up the air line does it need to go?







An alternative that i once used & think it works a tad better is the wooden air stones from Big AL`s in store, they come 2 in a pack & think it`s either Lees or Tom, all be it a bit more expensive than disposable chop sticks.
Regards


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## solarz

binhle said:


> can you elaborate on the use of chopsticks? very interesting, I like to try that method. what kind of chopstick? how far up the air line does it need to go?


Disposable chopsticks are made of bamboo which is has a very porous fiber structure. That's what allows it to diffuse CO2 so well. Simply jam the chopstick into an airline tube until it's tightly lodged, and then cut the chopstick to the desired length.

As I said, you needn't worry about it clogging up. I've had a piece that lasted for 3 or 4 months without any sign of clogging. I think this is because the outer layer of the chopstick is slowly decomposing and picked off by my shrimps so that any clogging is being continuously "peeled" away.

Note that you should not use disposable chopsticks that have been used (to eat) for too long, as the food particles will clog up the pores and make it ineffective. Disposable chopsticks that have only been eaten with once should be fine.


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## Antoine Doinel

solarz said:


> The key with DIY CO2 lies in the diffuser. I used a piece of disposable chopstick jammed up the airline tube, and it works wonders. Very little pressure is needed to produce a fine mist of bubbles, much smaller than those ceramic diffusers. Most times, if the mixture stops bubbling, all I need to do is swirl it, and it will start up again, often seemingly stronger than before and lasting a good few weeks. I can usually "reboot" it this way twice before the mixture is completely exhausted.
> .


What type of chopstick are you using? The bamboo one I used, which was jammed in so tight I couldn't pull it out again, didn't even come close to my ceramic diffuser.

I prefer ceramic diffuser near the bottom of the tank so the mist rises up slowly to the outflow on my hob filter. I've tried positioning it all over the place (including into the intake), and find that this produces the best results (according to my drop checker).


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## solarz

Antoine Doinel said:


> What type of chopstick are you using? The bamboo one I used, which was jammed in so tight I couldn't pull it out again, didn't even come close to my ceramic diffuser.
> 
> I prefer ceramic diffuser near the bottom of the tank so the mist rises up slowly to the outflow on my hob filter. I've tried positioning it all over the place (including into the intake), and find that this produces the best results (according to my drop checker).


Simply the disposable kind you can get for free at Chinese fast food joints or sushi places.

I haven't used a ceramic diffuser, but I hear that you need to clean it regularly or it gets clogged. Plus, it's way more expensive than disposable chopsticks.


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## Antoine Doinel

solarz said:


> Simply the disposable kind you can get for free at Chinese fast food joints or sushi places.
> 
> I haven't used a ceramic diffuser, but I hear that you need to clean it regularly or it gets clogged. Plus, it's way more expensive than disposable chopsticks.


Hmm, I might try it again. I def was not getting mist though, just a nice steady stream of fine bubbles. My diffuser bubbles are less than half the size.

You can always try one of the cheap ones off ebay for a few bucks shipped. They are known to clog eventually, but cleaning isn't a big deal. I just wipe mine with my finger every water change. The only problem some people have is their DIY doesn't produce enough pressure to make them work.


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## charlie1

Antoine Doinel said:


> Hmm, I might try it again. I def was not getting mist though, just a nice steady stream of fine bubbles. My diffuser bubbles are less than half the size.
> 
> *You can always try one of the cheap ones off ebay for a few bucks shipped*. They are known to clog eventually, but cleaning isn't a big deal. I just wipe mine with my finger every water change. The only problem some people have is their DIY doesn't produce enough pressure to make them work.


 Or you can also try a Fluval Ceramic diffuser - cheap- works pretty good- no severe clogging- replaceable disc. I have used one on tanks up to 40 gallons

http://www.petsandponds.com/en/aquarium-supplies/c163336/p17626214.html


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## Antoine Doinel

charlie1 said:


> Or you can also try a Fluval Ceramic diffuser - cheap- works pretty good- no severe clogging- replaceable disc. I have used one on tanks up to 40 gallons
> 
> http://www.petsandponds.com/en/aquarium-supplies/c163336/p17626214.html


This is also the one I use, so I can also attest to its quality. It's only fifty cents more at Big Al's too, so it's easy to find. For the price, I think it's worth checking out.


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## solarz

Antoine Doinel said:


> Hmm, I might try it again. I def was not getting mist though, just a nice steady stream of fine bubbles. My diffuser bubbles are less than half the size.
> 
> You can always try one of the cheap ones off ebay for a few bucks shipped. They are known to clog eventually, but cleaning isn't a big deal. I just wipe mine with my finger every water change. The only problem some people have is their DIY doesn't produce enough pressure to make them work.


I took some pics of the bubble stream I get from my chopstick diffuser:


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## FlyingHellFish

I get a fine mist from these chop sticks as well.

You can always soak them in water for a bit then use a needle nose plier to camp down on the ends.

Not too much, just a bit to get it going. I find that the longer it stays in, the finer the mist gets.

Your working pressure should be high, like 30 - 40 to get these to work. Not too sure about DIY, they might not make enough pressure.


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## solarz

I use DIY for my chopstick diffusers, and my one bottle usually lasts for over a month. Later on, there are less bubbles, but they become even finer, turning into a small mist.


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## solarz

The previous pics were from a 1 day old bottle of yeast CO2. This is what the bubbles look like after a day:


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## Stephen

In my experience the best way to provide co2 is just going to a paintball supplier and purchasing a 20 dollar tank. They will likely charge you under 5 dollars to fill it.

Purchase thread adapter then make the investment of the regulator that is powered for easy turning off at night. (likely 120$ or so)

The tank will last you (at 1 - 2 bubbles per second) for up to half a year. 
At that point you just take the tank in and spend 5 dollars to refill it at any paintball supply store.


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