# Need help! High Nitrates!



## jamie1985 (Oct 11, 2012)

Hi everyone,

I have a 29gal biocube that has been running for over a year now and things have been great. I have lots of corals and a few fish and just recently I have noticed increased algae (on the glass and rocks) and just recently my finger leather coral wont open up (polyps wont come out) 
My params yesterday were:
Sal: 1.023
Ph: 8.1
Amm: 0
Nitrites: 0
Nitrates: 160!!!
Lastnight I did a 50% water change, replaced filters and cleaned everything up.

Todays params are:
Sal: 1.0215
Ph: 8.1
Amm: 0
Nitrites: 0
Nitrates: 80+!!! 

I just have bioballs as filtration with no skimmer or reactor although I will be getting a reactor and will be running gfo and carbon mixed in it which should help no? Anyways im kind of stuck as to what to do...keep doing water changes? What else?

Any advice would be helpful!
Thanks!


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## ReefABCs (Nov 10, 2012)

Bio-balls will produce high nitrate after they convert ammonia>Nitrite> Nitrate, I would take them out.

Increase water changes, and your live rock should help keep Nitates down. Make sure you are not over feeding, (nothing falls to the bottom as waist) , Rinse any frozen food before hand.

Are you using R/O water to mix salt?

Just to add I would get a small skimmer if you have space before the reactor for GFO.


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## CanadaCorals.com (May 12, 2013)

Easiest way to reduce nitrates would be carbon dosing with vodka, sugar, vinegar or all 3 (VSV). 

Red Sea makes a fantastic cocktail for carbon dosing called NO3O4-X (nopox) that includes methanol and it works amazing!


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## jamie1985 (Oct 11, 2012)

Thanks for the advice! I will maybe take the bioballs out and rinse them but a large portion of my filtration bacteria will be in there wont it? What else should I do there if I take it out? I have cut down on the amount I am feeding them and yes, I am using RO water for changes. Will a skimmer help? Doesnt it just take proteins out? The gfo reactor will help with nitrates wont it?

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## jamie1985 (Oct 11, 2012)

Thanks CanadaCorals...how do you do that? Plus shouldnt I figure out the source of the nitrates and fix the problem with more filtration etc so they dont return after the dosing wears off?

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## CanadaCorals.com (May 12, 2013)

jamie1985 said:


> Thanks CanadaCorals...how do you do that? Plus shouldnt I figure out the source of the nitrates and fix the problem with more filtration etc so they dont return after the dosing wears off?
> 
> Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk


Bioballs are really not required for a saltwater system if you have the appropriate amount go liverock.

If you don't have enough rock, I would get more (make sure its cured before adding it to your system) and remove your bioballs.


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## cica (Feb 10, 2013)

Just a question,
Don't you need a skimmer if you are carbon dosing?


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## CanadaCorals.com (May 12, 2013)

cica said:


> Just a question,
> Don't you need a skimmer if you are carbon dosing?


That is a very good point!

I make the mistake of automatically assuming everyone has a skimmer.


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## jamie1985 (Oct 11, 2012)

Oh so if I am going to set up a reactor wolith gfo and carbon mixed I need to have a skimmer? What will happen if I dont get one?

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## CanadaCorals.com (May 12, 2013)

jamie1985 said:


> Oh so if I am going to set up a reactor wolith gfo and carbon mixed I need to have a skimmer? What will happen if I dont get one?
> 
> Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk


Skimmer is needed to remove fish waste. This is what is causing your nitrate/phosphate issue.

I would highly recommend getting a skimmer.

You can also use GFO in a reactor to help your skimmer lower phosphates even more.


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## badmedicine (Oct 27, 2012)

I use the NOX-POX (from red sea) and can say that it will reduce your nitrates really well. That said, you have to have a protein skimmer that can handle the increase in stuff produced.
You don't need a lot (gotta follow the instructions closely) and dose changes as the nitrates go down.


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## Flameangel (Sep 25, 2013)

I've always use a Monaco System to handle my Nitrate issue (Plenum Type by Jean Jaubert) in my sump.100 percent guaranteed 0% Nitrate.


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## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

I won't get into a debate of BioBalls being "nitrate factories" but w/o a skimmer and relying on just water changes for nutrient export, one is *generally *going to have NO3 and PO4 accumulation issues.

Carbon (C) dosing, ie. vodka, sugar, vinegar, bio-pellets, etc., works best if there is a skimmer employed in the system. The increase of "bacterial growth" from the "added" C source will have a greater demand for N and P fixation, it will increase skimmate collection rate thus removing N and P bound in the microbial body mass. Without a skimmer, it's just not as effective in N and P reduction, but is a food source for the coral .

Personally and professionally, I'm not a fan of doing more than 33% water change initially but I have done them in the past but you must keep an eye on the inverts for any adverse reactions for such a drastic N and P drop. After a few 33% water changes, you can jump up to 50% and can do this daily, as long as:

1) NSW matches temp and salinity
2) *WELL aerated prior to use*
3) Maintain, if not increase as well as vary invert feeding regimen as you are removing an "uncontrolled nutrient source" to a create a "controlled nutrient source" during this manner of N and P reduction.

One will observe N and P rebound as N and P leach from the LR and substrate. After many water changes, there will be a decrease of N and P leaching. This is where testing and tracking these changes will help you determine when to start to shift to a maintenance regemin/spread out the water change frequency. IME, once NO3 is ~10mg/L and/or PO4 ~0.1 mg/L, you have to keep an even closer eye on corals as going lower can have problems if you are not supplementing the corals w/a food source.

GFO with address PO4, carbon with dissolved organics, not the excess microbial growth from C dosing.

HTH and best of luck.


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## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

Flameangel said:


> I've always use a Monaco System to handle my Nitrate issue (Plenum Type by Jean Jaubert) in my sump.100 percent guaranteed 0% Nitrate.


I prefer the Monaco/Jeaubert method myself for NNR.


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## ReefABCs (Nov 10, 2012)

Flameangel said:


> I've always use a Monaco System to handle my Nitrate issue (Plenum Type by Jean Jaubert) in my sump.100 percent guaranteed 0% Nitrate.


Question for you, 
How large is the area in your sump running this (sq inch and sand depth etc?) vs how large is the display tank?

I was planning on setting up a RDSB ( no Plenum and no fauna) but this method might be worth a test with the plemum and fauna in the sand bed.

thx
Dave


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## jamie1985 (Oct 11, 2012)

Thanks everyone!! I think what I will do since I already have a gfo reactor coming is take out the bio balls and rinse them all and put them back in as well as get a skimmer...I posted in the marketplace as well but if anyone here knows anyone who is selling a skimmer please let me know!!!

I will post the progress!!


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## Flameangel (Sep 25, 2013)

ReefABCs said:


> Question for you,
> How large is the area in your sump running this (sq inch and sand depth etc?) vs how large is the display tank?
> 
> I was planning on setting up a RDSB ( no Plenum and no fauna) but this method might be worth a test with the plemum and fauna in the sand bed.
> ...


Although I know that you don't mean to hijack the post but I'll answer your question anyway.My tank is 90 gallon glass and underneath is a 37x16x20 inch sump.I have a 1 inch devoid space between the 1st layer of sand (1" thick Oyster shell) and another inch of Caribsea Aragonite sand on top.I have an Eggcrate suspended by a 3/4" PVC tubing underneath where the Oystershell is nestled then a storm door screen on top of it where the 1" Aragonite sand sits.You can omit the screen if you wish but I just kind of make everything neat if in case of a tear down for moving purposes.It can however,be put in the display tank if you wish and then a refugium underneath your tank.Nothing to it really.Btw,you can buy the 50 lb. Oyster Shell at any farm supply store for $10-15.


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## Steel_Wind (Oct 26, 2013)

jamie1985 said:


> Thanks everyone!! I think what I will do since I already have a gfo reactor coming is take out the bio balls and rinse them all and put them back in as well as get a skimmer...I posted in the marketplace as well but if anyone here knows anyone who is selling a skimmer please let me know!!!
> 
> I will post the progress!!
> 
> Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk


The skimmer will help a little, but really, Bioballs are too efficient at creating nitrates. That's the problem with them and it always has been. It's why almost nobody uses them anymore. It's what bioballs do. It will happen again and again and it will keep happening. At the very least, after you wash and dry them thoroughly, leave half of them out.


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## Flameangel (Sep 25, 2013)

Steel_Wind said:


> The skimmer will help a little, but really, Bioballs are too efficient at creating nitrates. That's the problem with them and it always has been. It's why almost nobody uses them anymore. It's what bioballs do. It will happen again and again and it will keep happening. At the very least, after you wash and dry them thoroughly, leave half of them out.


In my opinion,bioballs is a thing of the past,lol.


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## jamie1985 (Oct 11, 2012)

So what should I put in that center compartment instead? Will my tank go through a cycle when I remove them?
Thanks!

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## Steel_Wind (Oct 26, 2013)

jamie1985 said:


> So what should I put in that center compartment instead? Will my tank go through a cycle when I remove them?
> Thanks!
> 
> Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk


The suggestion was to add more live rock to the DT to give you more biological filtration. This was suggested so you could hopefully avoid any disruption/cycling problems. You could pull half of them out and put the live rock in, and then wean the tank off the remaining biolballs later.

As for the compartment, you could a skimmer in it. I suppose you could go with refugium mud and chaetomorpha, too, if there is someplace else for a skimmer. Some people swear by it; others swear at it. It's not without its own battles and controversy.


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## jamie1985 (Oct 11, 2012)

Oh ok so take half of the balls out and add some more rock, then how long should I wait before I remove the rest of the balls and add more rock?

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## Steel_Wind (Oct 26, 2013)

jamie1985 said:


> Oh ok so take half of the balls out and add some more rock, then how long should I wait before I remove the rest of the balls and add more rock?
> 
> Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk


Uhm. How much rock do you have in your tank now? And what kind of rock? If you are using a very porous rock like Pukani or some of the better Fiji rock, a strict pound per gallon ratio is not going to be all that helpful. It's ... _more of a guideline really_ (say that with a piratey accent, it's more fun that way!).

Do you have a picture of your current DT?


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## jamie1985 (Oct 11, 2012)

Theres a pic and I currently have about 30 lbs of fiji live rock...

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