# Help : Guppy with a droppy tail :(



## HOWsMom (Jan 3, 2012)

Heather (9 yrs old) called me in to her room this morning.
Poor "Spot" doesn't look good.
His hind end and tail are droopy, almost like his spine bent down overnight.

He looked fine yesterday though.

Tank parameters :

Ammonia : 0
Nitrite : 0
Nitrate : 10
Temp : 80

We did about a 25% water change anyhow.

She is running an airstone in the tank.

The only fish are the 2 guppies (we got from NAFB on March 27), but we did change the tank itself on Monday.

Two photos attached - one today, the other is the same fish a few days ago.


----------



## HOWsMom (Jan 3, 2012)

If it matters, she's been feeding the guppies "Omega One Color Micro Pellets"

- small amount every other day.

http://www.omegasea.net/products/nutrition/color-mini-pellets


----------



## HOWsMom (Jan 3, 2012)

She just said he's sitting on the sand now 

This is NOT looking good for Spot


----------



## Y2KGT (Jul 20, 2009)

What do you mean "but we did change the tank itself on Monday"?
--
Paul


----------



## HOWsMom (Jan 3, 2012)

Y2KGT said:


> What do you mean "but we did change the tank itself on Monday"?
> --
> Paul


She had a 10g that was cycled, with the 2 guppies in it.

We acquired a 20g-long from @darkangel66n, brought it home, cleaned it up, rinsed it out about 10 times, then rinsed it more 

Set that up with sand instead of gravel, moved the decorations from the 10g into the 20g, moved the water over, moved the filter over, etc. Everything except the gravel itself was put into the 20g.


----------



## Y2KGT (Jul 20, 2009)

I know your levels don't show it but I suspect you went through a mini cycle. A new tank, new substrate and 50% new water is a lot of change all at the same time. And is the filter sized large enough for a 20 gallon tank?

Do you have any plants in this tank? When I transferred all fish and plants (and filters) from my 46 gallon to a new 120 gallon tank everything was good for the first days and then all of a sudden I woke up to find all my fish either gasping at the surface or already dead.
--
Paul


----------



## HOWsMom (Jan 3, 2012)

Y2KGT said:


> I know your levels don't show it but I suspect you went through a mini cycle. A new tank, new substrate and 50% new water is a lot of change all at the same time. And is the filter sized large enough for a 20 gallon tank?
> 
> Do you have any plants in this tank? When I transferred all fish and plants (and filters) from my 46 gallon to a new 120 gallon tank everything was good for the first days and then all of a sudden I woke up to find all my fish either gasping at the surface or already dead.
> --
> Paul


She has a bit of baby tears in the tank, no other plants.

The filter is rated for up to 20g (AquaClear 20).

I'd like to upgrade the filter if I can find one super cheap for her - but I'd like to stay with the AquaClear brand.


----------



## HOWsMom (Jan 3, 2012)

Is there anything we can do to help him ?


----------



## Y2KGT (Jul 20, 2009)

HOWsMom said:


> Is there anything we can do to help him ?


Probably not. If it was an ammonia spike the damage is done.

You've already done a 25% water change which is what I would have done as well. Make sure the filter is at full output to maximize the surface agitation.

Keep in mind that guppies are already a delicate fish under ideal conditions.
--
Paul


----------



## HOWsMom (Jan 3, 2012)

Y2KGT said:


> Probably not. If it was an ammonia spike the damage is done.
> 
> You've already done a 25% water change which is what I would have done as well. Make sure the filter is at full output to maximize the surface agitation.
> 
> ...


Water change was the only thing I could think of this morning 

he's looking worse each time I peek in.

This is NOT going to be a good night here, I'm afraid. Poor girl is so sad about her little fishy friend


----------



## HOWsMom (Jan 3, 2012)

And within an hour of posting, Spot went to the rainbow bridge, and George's fins went down and droopy just like Spot's were this morning, so we opted to let him travel to fishie heaven with his friend


----------



## Y2KGT (Jul 20, 2009)

What does that mean?


----------



## HOWsMom (Jan 3, 2012)

*Rainbow Bridge* 

Just this side of heaven is a place called Rainbow Bridge.

When an animal dies that has been especially close to someone here, that pet goes to Rainbow Bridge. 
There are meadows and hills for all of our special friends so they can run and play together. 
There is plenty of food, water and sunshine, and our friends are warm and comfortable.

All the animals who had been ill and old are restored to health and vigor; 
those who were hurt or maimed are made whole and strong again, 
just as we remember them in our dreams of days and times gone by. 
The animals are happy and content, except for one small thing; 
they each miss someone very special to them, 
who had to be left behind.

They all run and play together, but the day comes when one suddenly stops and looks into the distance. 
His bright eyes are intent; His eager body quivers. 
Suddenly he begins to run from the group, flying over the green grass, 
his legs carrying him faster and faster.

You have been spotted, and when you and your special friend finally meet,
you cling together in joyous reunion, never to be parted again. 
The happy kisses rain upon your face; your hands again caress the beloved head, 
and you look once more into the trusting eyes of your pet, 
so long gone from your life but never absent from your heart.

Then you cross Rainbow Bridge together....

Author unknown...


----------



## Y2KGT (Jul 20, 2009)

Yeah my question is more along the lines of how you terminated the second guppy? 

"so we opted to let him travel to fishie heaven with his friend"


----------



## HOWsMom (Jan 3, 2012)

Y2KGT said:


> Yeah my question is more along the lines of how you terminated the second guppy?
> 
> "so we opted to let him travel to fishie heaven with his friend"


Oh sorry - I thought you were asking what I meant by the Rainbow Bridge.

George was euthanized with a quick blow 

And no, my daughter was NOT witness to that procedure, though she knows that both guppies are now dead.


----------



## aniroc (Aug 23, 2012)

What sand did you use?
How did you clean the new tank?
Describe the water change process.
I don't think its ammonia....Two guppies in 20 gallons will not produce enough ammonia especially since you moved some cycled filter and decorations.
I suspect is something toxic other than ammonia.


Funny how my post ended to a wrong thread....I was talking about clamped fins guppy


----------



## HOWsMom (Jan 3, 2012)

It's pool filter sand. Rinsed about a dozen times before being put in the tank.

Cleaned the 20 g tank with hot water and bleach, then rinsed and rinsed and used plenty of Prime to De - activate the residual bleach. The tank had previously been a reptile or turtle tank.

Water change is done using a gravel vacuum type hose into a bucket. Fresh water from the bath tub is run into the bucket - with Prime added there before being added to the tank.



Sent from my SGH-I317M using Tapatalk


----------



## aniroc (Aug 23, 2012)

Everything looks fine so far...(I assume that you did not put water first in the tub and from there in the bucket, right?)
Was the sand brand new? How about the bucket?
Any chance that some traces of soap/detergent got in your tank? How about hand lotion? Recent nail polish? Any chemicals that you can think of?

I'm sorry about your fish. This is not a nice welcome to fishkeeping. I know you tried hard to fishless cycle (something that I never found the patience to do...). Lets try to get to the bottom of this so you can learn something.


----------



## HOWsMom (Jan 3, 2012)

No - I don't fill the tub first. I put the bucket in the tub and full it with the faucet.

Both the sand and bucket were new. Bucket has never been used except for aquarium water changes.

I have 3 kids - I will never rule out a trace of something that shouldn't be in the tank being in there ! I don't THINK anything untoward was in, but anything is possible with kids that are only 7, 9, and 11 !

Sent from my SGH-I317M using Tapatalk


----------



## aniroc (Aug 23, 2012)

I know....I killed lots of fish when I was a child. Just couldn't understand why a fish that has water and food is doing that to me.
Just because something is not toxic to me doesn't mean it is safe for fish.
A co-worker's daughter made something "special" for her goldfish at school. She painted it and glued it together and put it in the tank for the fish to enjoy.
A friend of mine decided to re-arrange some decorations in the tank after she had a cigarette. It was enough nicotine left on her fingers to kill all her fish.
Don't blame your kids now. It is probably a good time to review some rules with them. Until then, unless you find out what happened, more fish will became floaters.
I will do a 100% water change and start new.


----------



## HOWsMom (Jan 3, 2012)

I don't blame the kids, it's all part of the learning experience.

I don't know what happened. I probably never will.



Sent from my SGH-I317M using Tapatalk


----------



## darkangel66n (May 15, 2013)

I know she likes guppies and I know they are touted as a beginner fish, but I do not really think they are. The more fancy the guppy is the harder they seem to be to keep. 40 years of this and I can still not believe what IFGA breeders do to keep their guppies. They may as well be doing discus. Try and get her to like something else, not mollies or swords either. For some reason I find a lot of the domestic coloured livebearers a little touchy. I can give her some wild types but I doubt she would like them as they are less colourful. Danios are a great starter fish, as well as cories.


----------



## JNSN (Nov 4, 2013)

Go with some hardier fishes for now.. Surely something to cheer the little one back up


----------



## HOWsMom (Jan 3, 2012)

We have khuli loaches for her - will look at other fish with her before too long I'm sure.

For now though, she is sad. Not devastated but SAD. 

Sent from my SGH-I317M using Tapatalk


----------



## BillD (Jun 5, 2006)

You did a lot more cleaning and rinsing of the 20 than I would have done, and I bleach everything. Even if there was no filtration, the guppies wouldn't have been affected that quickly. My guess is that they already had something. Many of today's guppies are not very hardy, compared to the bullet proof fish I kept as a child.


----------



## HOWsMom (Jan 3, 2012)

BillD said:


> You did a lot more cleaning and rinsing of the 20 than I would have done, and I bleach everything. Even if there was no filtration, the guppies wouldn't have been affected that quickly. My guess is that they already had something. Many of today's guppies are not very hardy, compared to the bullet proof fish I kept as a child.


We were SO hoping to keep these particular guppies alive. 
I've never seen colouration / pattern like this before - they were gorgeous.

It's just scary weird how fast whatever happened, happened


----------



## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

Sometimes the little bit of stress of being moved even if done properly is just too much for them and they get sick and die.

From what I read, you did everything right. Seems the fish just wasn't healthy enough to handle that stress


----------



## HOWsMom (Jan 3, 2012)

And the loaches are all dead too.

Taking the tank down completely now, re-bleaching EVERYTHING and rinsing and rinsing.

I think that whoever suggested soap or something having gotten into it are likely correct.

Starting the cycle all over again for this poor girl


----------



## streeker02 (Apr 11, 2014)

After all this, you just went ahead and threw more fish in there?


----------



## HOWsMom (Jan 3, 2012)

The tank got torn down, completely rinsed, bleached, rinsed, rinsed, etc, and then well dechlorinated.

Filter got upgraded to an AC30, and filled up with some filter media from my 75g tank in the hopes that it will cycle a little faster that way.

We think we might have found our culprit though - there was a decoration that the kids put in the tank that had been sitting on the bathroom counter, right by LYSOL SOAP dispenser !

It got rinsed, but probably not well enough.

So, hoping for the best this time, and some smarter decisions.


----------



## aniroc (Aug 23, 2012)

What was the re-bleach for?


----------



## HOWsMom (Jan 3, 2012)

aniroc said:


> What was the re-bleach for?


Because we don't actually know what caused the demise of the fish in the tank, so felt it was best to be on the safe side and kill off anything bad.

Now we restart and hope for the best.

Poor kid is SO disappointed and sad.


----------



## darkangel66n (May 15, 2013)

There is no way anything bad could have survived in that tank fish related after the length of time it sat in the yard, was empty, froze, baked and then cleaned by you. I will firmly say it was the guppies themselves. Now having said that there is nothing wrong with cleaning it again other then extra work. Is she ready for her shrimp? I will bring some to the meeting on Tuesday if she is.


----------



## HOWsMom (Jan 3, 2012)

darkangel66n said:


> There is no way anything bad could have survived in that tank fish related after the length of time it sat in the yard, was empty, froze, baked and then cleaned by you. I will firmly say it was the guppies themselves. Now having said that there is nothing wrong with cleaning it again other then extra work. Is she ready for her shrimp? I will bring some to the meeting on Tuesday if she is.


I actually think it was likely soap or some other cleaner on the one fake plant, more than anything else. Just dumb deadly luck for us.

It got put in about a day before the guppies died.

My thought was that it was just the guppies, so yes, we put the loaches in and ended up losing them too. So likely SOMETHING was in the tank - and my mama gut says it was from that decoration.

Now everything is cleaned and restarted.

The shrimp can go into the quarantine tank if hers isn't ready.

Thanks again


----------



## aniroc (Aug 23, 2012)

Darkangel: How can you FIRMLY say it was the guppies themselves when loaches died as well? Am I missing something there?
Yes, it was me saying something toxic other than ammonia got into the tank. A lot of people think that soap kills fish by killing the biofilter. And that is not right! You need a lot of soap, even if its antibacterial, to kill the bacteria and fish will not drop dead in a day if that's the case. OP's fish were at the surface (see pictures), gasping for air. There were suffocating. Soap and any other detergents kills fish by interfering with fish's gills ability to pull oxygen out of the water. Its the way soap work as a cleaner...something to do with "surfactants". I can explain if it matters.


----------



## HOWsMom (Jan 3, 2012)

aniroc said:


> Darkangel: How can you FIRMLY say it was the guppies themselves when loaches died as well? Am I missing something there?
> Yes, it was me saying something toxic other than ammonia got into the tank. A lot of people think that soap kills fish by killing the biofilter. And that is not right! You need a lot of soap, even if its antibacterial, to kill the bacteria and fish will not drop dead in a day if that's the case. OP's fish were at the surface (see pictures), gasping for air. There were suffocating. Soap and any other detergents kills fish by interfering with fish's gills ability to pull oxygen out of the water. Its the way soap work as a cleaner...something to do with "surfactants". I can explain if it matters.


Let's not start picking it apart. There is no way now to know without doubt WHAT caused the deaths of the guppies and loaches.

As I said, I truly think that whatever it was came on the fake plant decoration - be it soap, or some other cleaner from the bathroom.

Heather and I had bleached and scrubbed the tank when we received it from darkangel and his family. Is it POSSIBLE that something lived through that - sure. Is it LIKELY - no. And *IF* it did, it would have been due entirely to our not cleaning it well enough.

No matter, the tank is re-cleaned and re-started now, and we will be being VERY watchful of anything going into it.


----------



## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

when bleaching, rinse as much as you can, dry completely if possible and add extra dechlorinator when adding water. I didn't do the last part on a tank recently and lost the breeding pair I put in the tank. I added dechlorinator and a tester feeder guppy and once I saw things were ok I put another breeding pair in without problems.


----------



## HOWsMom (Jan 3, 2012)

I always rinse like crazy and add extra decal or in at or where bleach is concerned !

Sent from my SGH-I317M using Tapatalk


----------



## darkangel66n (May 15, 2013)

Because what I said though I may not have said it right, was whatever the problem was, it came with the guppies. There was no way for it to have been bacteria left over from the old tank. Since I supplied the tank I was making that point.


----------



## HOWsMom (Jan 3, 2012)

darkangel66n said:


> Because what I said though I may not have said it right, was whatever the problem was, it came with the guppies. There was no way for it to have been bacteria left over from the old tank. Since I supplied the tank I was making that point.


I still think it came from that fake plant myself, not the tank and unlikely (though possibly) the guppies.

Sent from my SGH-I317M using Tapatalk


----------



## malajulinka (Mar 29, 2008)

I once lost a tank due to bucket contamination. It was my crazy ex boyfriend's fault, and while I don't *think* he did it on purpose, there's always been a little niggle in the back of my mind.

That sucks, but it's part of learning!


----------

