# Controlling nitrates in reef tank



## TankCla (Dec 31, 2010)

For some time I battle my high nitrates in my tank. I am dosing vodka and I can see them dropping.

Just curios what are you using to control them. 

I know, wc and less food keeps the NO3 low. But it is hard to do that when you have a mix reef with fish.
I try to keep my corals happy by feeding phyto and oyster eggs, and with fish food (plankton, krill, mysis, bloodworms) NO3 and PO3 goes up.

For PO3, usually you will run phosphate removal media. 

What are you running for NO3?


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## fesso clown (Nov 15, 2011)

Apart from feeding carefully and water changes I think it comes down to a good skimmer and CUC. 
My strategy for not worrying about nitrates is not to test for them.... hehehe.


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## Bayinaung (Feb 24, 2012)

chaeto.... mangroves, macroalgae. you need enough of the plant matter that will absorb nitrates. when I had my whole wack of chaeto going, my nitrates were 0. then two weeks ago they suddenly died en mass leaving me with a quarter of the bunch, and now my nitrates are high.


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## Flameangel (Sep 25, 2013)

For those of you who maybe having problems with NO3 and would like to try something OLD but works like a charm and plus less work,here is an excellent article:

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2002/9/aafeature

....and btw I'm using this system in my sump and my NO3 is non-existent.

Ed


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## Bayinaung (Feb 24, 2012)

Flameangel said:


> For those of you who maybe having problems with NO3 and would like to try something OLD but works like a charm and plus less work,here is an excellent article:
> 
> http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2002/9/aafeature
> 
> ...


hey great article. I had never seen this! gonna look at setting up something similar in my bottom tank. This would be great for a frag tank!


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## Bayinaung (Feb 24, 2012)

TankCla said:


> For some time I battle my high nitrates in my tank. I am dosing vodka and I can see them dropping.


You can also use sugar instead of vodka. It's much cheaper  long term, I think flame's method is probably best. chaeto dies


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## Flameangel (Sep 25, 2013)

Bayinaung said:


> hey great article. I had never seen this! gonna look at setting up something similar in my bottom tank. This would be great for a frag tank!


I have been using this method since 1994.


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## TankCla (Dec 31, 2010)

Flameangel said:


> I have been using this method since 1994.


And you don't have any weird smells around the sump?

I am more concerned about the areas with zero O2, the black sand.


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## cica (Feb 10, 2013)

I had a nitrate spike last August to 60+ ppm. Tried the vodka for 2 month but it barely did anything. End of September I bought nitragard. This product is amazing. In 3 weeks pulled down the nitrates to less than 2 ppm. For my 125g tank +30g sump I used 1l nitraguard with the bomb metode. My skimer was working like crazy.


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## CanadaCorals.com (May 12, 2013)

Nitrates are easy to deal with now that we have so many "carbon" options to feed the bacteria on our live rock.


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## Bayinaung (Feb 24, 2012)

well I was reading up... turns out bacteria does need a little bit of phosphates to denitrify. and with my phosphates being 0... this explains why my nitrates jumped with over feeding. still shouldn't macroalgae take up the nitrates?

ok time to sleep


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## UrbnRzqr (May 31, 2013)

cica said:


> I had a nitrate spike last August to 60+ ppm. Tried the vodka for 2 month but it barely did anything. End of September I bought nitragard. This product is amazing. In 3 weeks pulled down the nitrates to less than 2 ppm. For my 125g tank +30g sump I used 1l nitraguard with the bomb metode. My skimer was working like crazy.


Heard a lot of folks have great results with nitraguard. I haven't yet got near my max bio load so not from experience.


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## MPreston (Nov 11, 2013)

*Redsea NO3 PO4 X*

Mind if I tag along? 
I too have an issue with high nitrates but very lower phosphates. 
On the weekend a wise man suggested trying the Red Sea NO3 PO4 X, even sent me in my way with a sample. 
Simple instructions- dose _ amount if your nitrates are above _ for X amount of weeks. Simple enough. I cant comment on the progress be it i am 3 days in but from what was explained, red sea takes all of the home remedies (vinager, sugar etc) engineers it, puts it is a bottle with simple instructions for the average Joe like me. 
No amount of water changes, limited feeding and skimming brought my nitrates below 20, fingers crossed that the red sea helps.


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## notclear (Nov 5, 2011)

I am also using the nitra-guard bio cubes, just place the bag near the outlet of the skimmer and nitrate is close to 0.


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## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

CanadaCorals.com said:


> Nitrates are easy to deal with now that we have so many "carbon" options to feed the bacteria on our live rock.


+1. Solid and liquid forms of carbon supplementation has their +/-'s as well initial set-up and longterm costs. IMHO, it comes down to how the method "fits" and incorporated into the hobbiests system and maintenance routine. I've used BP, Nitra-Guard and VSV dosing with equal results on client systems.

IMHO/E, a properly sized macroalgae refugium w/a Jeaubert method sandbed is my preference.

JM2C


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## TankCla (Dec 31, 2010)

I learned so many useful things in just a few replies. 
Thank you guys!



cica said:


> End of September I bought nitragard. This product is amazing. In 3 weeks pulled down the nitrates to less than 2 ppm. For my 125g tank +30g sump I used 1l nitraguard with the bomb metode.


New products for me: Red Sea NO3 PO3 and Nitra Guard. 
Red Sea, I understand. Easy dosing. 
What is bomb method?

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## notclear (Nov 5, 2011)

Bomb method is in a bag of nitra-guard cubes, place an air stone in the middle of the cubes and fire up the air pump. The idea is to give air for the bacteria to grow. For me, I just place the entire bag close to the outlet of the skimmer which has plenty of air bubbles.


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## cica (Feb 10, 2013)

notclear said:


> Bomb method is in a bag of nitra-guard cubes, place an air stone in the middle of the cubes and fire up the air pump. The idea is to give air for the bacteria to grow. For me, I just place the entire bag close to the outlet of the skimmer which has plenty of air bubbles.


I stand corrected, I used it the same way. But it is very similar to the bomb method, except you don't need air pump. The oxygenated water is supplied by the skimmer.



Bayinaung said:


> well I was reading up... turns out bacteria does need a little bit of phosphates to denitrify. and with my phosphates being 0... this explains why my nitrates jumped with over feeding. still shouldn't macroalgae take up the nitrates?


The nitra-guard titanium works well with 0 phosphates. Macro algae also need some phosphates. If you overfeed, you do input phosphates too but it might be consumed by some micro algae, that's why your reading is 0.


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## loonie (Mar 29, 2008)

After trying different product, now I use the bio cubes, same method as what notclear said and it works fine for me.


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## des (Jul 30, 2011)

loonie said:


> After trying different product, now I use the bio cubes, same method as what notclear said and it works fine for me.


I'm also using the biocubes but have them in my canister filter.


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## TankCla (Dec 31, 2010)

des said:


> I'm also using the biocubes but have them in my canister filter.


You brought up another question: how safe are canister filters in saltwater aquariums?


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## TankCla (Dec 31, 2010)

notclear said:


> Bomb method is in a bag of nitra-guard cubes, place an air stone in the middle of the cubes and fire up the air pump. The idea is to give air for the bacteria to grow. For me, I just place the entire bag close to the outlet of the skimmer which has plenty of air bubbles.


Using this method, eliminates the need of VSV dosing?


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## TankCla (Dec 31, 2010)

> BIO-Cubes are made from 100% biologically degradable polymers that effectively remove both nitrates and phosphates from both marine and freshwater systems


How good is this media in removing PO3?


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## MPreston (Nov 11, 2013)

If I can ask a question. 
I don't have a sump, how could I use nitraguard?
Reactor?


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## liz (Jan 16, 2008)

loonie said:


> After trying different product, now I use the bio cubes, same method as what notclear said and it works fine for me.


Same here. I have been using them since they hit the stores and they seem to be doing their job with no ill effects whatsoever.


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## TankCla (Dec 31, 2010)

MPreston said:


> If I can ask a question.
> I don't have a sump, how could I use nitraguard?
> Reactor?


A reactor is recommended.


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## MPreston (Nov 11, 2013)

TankCla said:


> A reactor is recommended.


With air stone?


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## TankCla (Dec 31, 2010)

MPreston said:


> With air stone?


Youtube


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## MPreston (Nov 11, 2013)

TankCla said:


> Youtube


Oh OK, gotcha. 
Would a phosbane 150 work?


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## Flameangel (Sep 25, 2013)

wtac said:


> +1 IMHO/E, a properly sized macroalgae refugium w/a Jeaubert method sandbed is my preference.
> 
> JM2C


I have employed this system with d.s.b. on d.t. and an overly sized external protein skimmer (KLAES 8" diameter X 66" tall) on my 90 gallon tank with a 49 gallon sump.No need to change anything every 2-4 months except water every month perhaps whenever I feel like it.


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## Bayinaung (Feb 24, 2012)

Flameangel said:


> I have employed this system with d.s.b. on d.t. and an overly sized external protein skimmer (KLAES 8" diameter X 66" tall) on my 90 gallon tank with a 49 gallon sump.No need to change anything every 2-4 months except water every month perhaps whenever I feel like it.


WOW 66" tall skimmer?? what's DSB flame.


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## Flameangel (Sep 25, 2013)

Bayinaung said:


> WOW 66" tall skimmer?? what's DSB flame.


Deep Sand Bed at 4 inches.The skimmer came from my old 300 gallon tank back in 1994 before we moved in Brampton.


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## Bayinaung (Feb 24, 2012)

Do you use any other filtration, like biocubes, and phosban reactors? I'm wondering if I should get something for phosphates at least.


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## Flameangel (Sep 25, 2013)

Bayinaung said:


> Do you use any other filtration, like biocubes, and phosban reactors? I'm wondering if I should get something for phosphates at least.


I use Phosban Reactor w/ Rowaphos currently and I have only use bioballs for almost a couple of months but then throw it all to my friends garage for it is nothing but NITRATE FACTORY.That time was when I'm being introduced to reef keeping when all corals were colonies and no frags....frags only within the MAST (Marine Aquarium Society Of Toronto) members.


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## Bayinaung (Feb 24, 2012)

well I will get a reactor in that case. I'm going to do the DSB too following the flaubert method you linked to. I like biological filtration and keeping things as simple as possible.


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## Flameangel (Sep 25, 2013)

Bayinaung said:


> well I will get a reactor in that case. I'm going to do the DSB too following the flaubert method you linked to. I like biological filtration and keeping things as simple as possible.


Try to include a Refugium if it's possible so you won't need a Reactor and Rowaphos....it's more economical IMHO.I have no refugium on my sump just plain 1" Oyster shell and 1" Aragonite sand completely Natural Nitrate Reduction hence,NNR,Monaco System or Jean Jaubert Method w/c ever you prefer.Btw,you can purchase the Oyster Shell at any farm feed supply just make sure you wash it thoroughly with RO/DI water.


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## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

Flameangel said:


> I have employed this system with d.s.b. on d.t. and an overly sized external protein skimmer (KLAES 8" diameter X 66" tall) on my 90 gallon tank with a 49 gallon sump.No need to change anything every 2-4 months except water every month perhaps whenever I feel like it.


I have a 3' and 5' Klaes skimmer in storage. A company way ahead of it's time back in the day. I had the pleasure of playing with them when I worked at Aquarium Toronto along w/Dupla in the 90's. Udo was quite a character to work under, to put it mildly and kindly.

I remember coral shipments in the 90's where there were 3 football sized pieces/box and sold retail for $150-200ea.

Sorry to thread-jack but feeling a bit nostalgic...no thanks to Flameangel...LOL!

Back on topic...

IME/HO, w/carbon dosing controls has a greater affect on dropping N than P but you will need some P present for N fixation/uptake into the bacterial biomass. If your phosphate is less than 0.1mg/L, I wouldn't worry too much about it. Above that I would employ a P removing system but not be overly aggressive in it's use as to affect N fixation/uptake...it's a bit of a balancing act.

JM2C

To add...got into a conversation while posting...LOL!

IMHO/E, there is "something" that a macroalgae refugium gives to the system, be it a holistic, ecological, etc approach. It's another piece of the "natural puzzle" that we all are trying to recreate. Absolutely, as Flameangel mentioned, longterm they are easier and cheaper to run, as long as it's properly sized for your system.


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## Flameangel (Sep 25, 2013)

Once A Reefer,Always A Reefer,lol.


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## Bayinaung (Feb 24, 2012)

yeah I'm trying to do that in a 30G tank - mangroves, macroalgae and chaeto. both chaeto and macroalgae are not taking to the refugium tank even though I'm giving them 4 T5s 12 hours a day. I had a huge growth of chaeto and then suddenly they died 2 weeks ago leaving me less than a quarter of the peak mass. macroalgae is also melting away. my nano which has no protein skimmer, has macroalgae thriving there. everything there is 0.


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## badmedicine (Oct 27, 2012)

I like using the Red Sea Nox Pox method, along with a refugium of chaeto. I used to use the Deep sand bed/Jaubert method but found that when I would vacuum, it destroyed the process and I would get spikes in chemistry. 

Nox Pox is pretty simple to use- small doses regularly (I dose 5ml every other day for my 180gallon.) Once the Nitrates and phosphates are in control you cut back even more. 

No biopellet reactors to monitor or set up.


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## Bayinaung (Feb 24, 2012)

I understand that you can do deep sand in a container within a tank/HOB refugium/etc. I am thinking of putting down a container of deep sand in my refugium tank and plant mangroves in there. maybe add mineral mud. would that help? 

By the way, one guy's huge 320G tank crashed because of a LACK of nutrients. water can be too clean.


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## TankCla (Dec 31, 2010)

I was reading too about usage of bomb method with nitra-guard. Apparently water is not enough. There has to be very oxygenated water, and you can't have that in your canister. 


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## Flameangel (Sep 25, 2013)

Bayinaung said:


> I understand that you can do deep sand in a container within a tank/HOB refugium/etc. I am thinking of putting down a container of deep sand in my refugium tank and plant mangroves in there. maybe add mineral mud. would that help?
> 
> By the way, one guy's huge 320G tank crashed because of a LACK of nutrients. water can be too clean.


Just like wtac said it's a balancing act....nutrients that is.


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## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

Bayinaung said:


> By the way, one guy's huge 320G tank crashed because of a LACK of nutrients. water can be too clean.


IMHO/E, the implementation of various N and P controlling methods is to keep these parameters _*manageable*_. More often than not, when they get out of hand causing issues, the first thing one does is to cut back on feeding and supplementation as well as get "overly aggressive" in attaining control and keeping it in "control". These changes must be done gradually to allow the animals to adapt and adjust for environemtal/biological/chemical equilibrium.

The "fear" sets in where feeding and supplementation are not slowly reverted back to it's original state leading to malnourishment for the coral and it's just a matter of time before it goes downhill.

I can tell you first hand from friends, friends friend(s) and relatives similar experience of crashed reef systems, it's the same theme when talking to them.

JME/2C


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## TankCla (Dec 31, 2010)

I just started with NitraGuard. I got it yesterday from Dan (CanadaCorals) and now I installed it. 
I think I have enough water flow and oxigen. 








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