# Cardinal problems



## xriddler (Feb 16, 2012)

Hey guys,

I ran into a little bit of a problem. Okay I went to Dragon king to grab the 20 for 20 cardinal tetra deal. I am pretty sure i counted 20 when i got home and got a single lampeye tetra in the mix. But counting them today i only have 18 cardinals left. They are about 1/2 to 1inch big in a 48 gallon long running an eheim 2217. I can't find the other two. Checked the floors to see if they jumped out, not floating dead or even dead on the gravel. I don't know if they miscounted or it got sucked up? Should i check my filter? I'm scared that its in my filter decomposing. I checked my water its only at .25 ppm ammo 0 nitrite and 0 nitrate. What should i do? All help/opinions is appreciated


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## cliff (Aug 30, 2010)

Do you have many hiding spots in the tank? (plants/wood/ornaments?)

I find especially in my large 90g planted tank it can be hard to get an accurate count sometimes as one or two might be hiding pretty good. Or they may have passed away - it happens sometimes, but I'm not all that worried about it due to the volume of the tank, and that I have some assasin snail, they do quick work scavenging the remains.


I'd check the filter just in case - I've found little guys in there before.


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## xriddler (Feb 16, 2012)

where do you think they would be? at the bottom of the canister?


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## cliff (Aug 30, 2010)

yes, there's normally a little space down there before the media.


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## malajulinka (Mar 29, 2008)

Cardinal and neon tetras are basically aliens, and when they die they are immediately transported back to the home planet.

That might just be a rumour, but it's true that they turn totally transparent when they die, and then float into crevices where you will never find them. Ever. I've lost a few over the years, and have found maybe 1 carcass.

Check the filter just to be safe.


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## xriddler (Feb 16, 2012)

sigh so i managed to found them in there, double sighhhh the worse part was when i shone my light i saw a shrimp in there too. but i managed to kill it too with my bio media falling on it at the bottom. it was a run away shrimp from coldmantis i think ='( i fail so much.


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## Bantario (Apr 10, 2011)

Wrap the intake with a filter bag or a sponge, problem solved!


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## Exquizique (Nov 19, 2012)

Glad you found them!! Were they ok?? I got some cardinals recently too and have discovered that a couple of them really like squeezing themselves into the middle of some of the dense moss patches i have in my tank. I always count them when i check in on them and these days when i find one or two missing i usually go shine a light at the moss first, and they're usually there ...


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## xriddler (Feb 16, 2012)

no they went to fishy heaven already. both of them were on the side of my biological filtration in my canister. when i got to them it was too late. I found some fabric net looking material. I will probably wrap my intake up with it after some soaking in aquarium water. What should i use to wrap it up with? can i rubberband it? or should i use string?


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

xriddler said:


> I checked my water its only at .25 ppm ammo 0 nitrite and 0 nitrate. What should i do? All help/opinions is appreciated


Your tank is not even cycled, you should not be putting any fish in there, especially not sensitive fish like cardinals!


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## xriddler (Feb 16, 2012)

Yea its not fully cycled. But in my defense its a dirt tank. So I basically dirted capped filled and planted the same week. And following other dirt guides people put fish in the same week or sometime same day too. *Shrugs* I thought I'd just follow the readings I did.


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

xriddler said:


> Yea its not fully cycled. But in my defense its a dirt tank. So I basically dirted capped filled and planted the same week. And following other dirt guides people put fish in the same week or sometime same day too. *Shrugs* I thought I'd just follow the readings I did.


Dirt or no dirt makes no difference.

It sounds like you're trying to do a silent cycle. However, since you're registering ammonia, your plants are obviously not enough for biofiltration.

Good luck with your cardinals, I sincerely hope they can survive!


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## xriddler (Feb 16, 2012)

I'm not sure, I'm just a copycat  I really hope it works out too. I'm going to go search what a silent cycle is.


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## GAT (Oct 8, 2011)

The dirt tank concept only work if your plants have the right bacteria. For instance, if you buy some plants from another hobbyist (or from your own tank) and plant them in your tank the same day then you will be fine. Assuming you just add few fish not bus load. If you put the plants in tab water you will kill all the bacteria and you have to start from scratch. 

also any amount ammonia is bad too. most dirt tank guides assumes that you will have ton of plants in the tank and you can at least change water once a week (10% or more). The guides don't really mention this but lot of them are assuming that you will get plants with healthy bacteria in them. 

Don't forget, your soil will leach some ammonia for few days if not few weeks so you definitely need some bacteria. If you have the ability to read ammonia level, i suggest you do this every day and make 25-50% water change.


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

GAT said:


> The dirt tank concept only work if your plants have the right bacteria. For instance, if you buy some plants from another hobbyist (or from your own tank) and plant them in your tank the same day then you will be fine. Assuming you just add few fish not bus load. If you put the plants in tab water you will kill all the bacteria and you have to start from scratch.


Just wanted to share my experience here.

When I set up my new tank, also with dirt, I transplanted about 20 vals from my old tank which had been setup for over a year. I also planted lots of dwarf sags and crypts. Furthermore, I ran the sponge filter from the old tank directly in the new tank.

The new tank still registered ammonia and went through a cycle that took about 2 weeks to complete. The only thing I can't be sure is whether I used dechlor on the water.


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## GAT (Oct 8, 2011)

I recently did a dirted tank but used an already cycled filter. It's been two weeks and so far no death in the tank. I see more active fish so i think they are happy.


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## xriddler (Feb 16, 2012)

one thing for sure now though, i think i'm screwed


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## GAT (Oct 8, 2011)

if you are that worried, keep doing water changes every day and check for ammonia. If you just have cardinals then water changes every day can carry you till the cycle kicks in. In the mean time get some floating plants.


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

You should have posted your plans here before execution and we all could have helped out.


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