# Added my coral tonight!



## jason1985 (Jul 8, 2009)

Ok so I have about 30 lbs of rock in my tank. 10lbs of Tufa for the bottom and 20lbs of Live Rock. What do you think and what are your suggestions?

I will be adding fish only and slowly move to some soft coral


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Looks like a decent start. But a lot of rock (I'm not one to say what is too much rock...)

Looks like the rock work might be a bit tight there - because you're doing a fish-only for now (and even if you're doing a full reef), you want to keep the inside of the rock work open so fish can swim through and hide in there, but structurally stable enough that fish aren't going to be causing avalanches and squishing themselves, or worse, cracking the glass.

Also you might want to keep the rocks off of the glass, as it makes cleaning the glass there a lot easier.

How big is this tank? You should start a build thread so people can comment there and track your progress!


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## jason1985 (Jul 8, 2009)

The tank is a 25 gallon. I know what you mean about the rocks being congested but this picture doesnt do justice, there are plenty of open spots specially in the middle there is a large open spot that any larger fish could fit through. When I get my camera I will take better pictures. I just took a quick snap with my cell last night.


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## jason1985 (Jul 8, 2009)

I will be going win shrimp. Tonight I think I might pull down off the live rock and re start to make it more open space. It took me close to an hour to make this setup last night ans stable, I thought it was looking nice. I'm really picky and I don't think I want to make it that high. I will remove some of the tuffa rock from the base and lay the live rock on the subsrate. As it lays right now there are open spots all over big enough to fit fish it's just hard to see with this picture. But like I said I am slowly going to work my way up to what I want this tank to be so if tonight I have a few hours on my hands I will pull down the live rock and create a new layout.


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## Sunstar (Jul 29, 2008)

I'd use a couple smaller rocks and put the b ig flat one on the bottom and build a sort of thing on that. But hat's me.


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## jason1985 (Jul 8, 2009)

That's what I plan on doing tonight. I will place the tuffa rocks and probably remove some. Place the flat live rock on the bottom and build up. I plan on starting with a clown and a few inverts


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Good to see you're taking it slow and have a plan.

What other equipment are you running in the tank? Do you mind posting an equipment list?

Also, I don't see a powerhead or any type of supplementary flow in there - if you don't have extra flow, I'd recommend getting a small powerhead or two.


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## jason1985 (Jul 8, 2009)

I have two powerheads just not in the tank yet! They will probably go in tonight. I just need to pick up a power bar and timmer for the lighting. 

25 Gallon
Fluval 405 External Canister Filter 
Marineland Eclipse All in one Hood w/
Coralife T-5 24" double strip 
100watt heater
2x Maxi-Jet 400 
SeaCarib Oolite substrate
10lbs of Tuffa rock
20lbs of Indo premium live rock


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## jason1985 (Jul 8, 2009)

Okay so I went home on my lunch and removed all the rock from my tank, hope to have time to set it back up tonight.


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## KnaveTO (May 13, 2007)

The Coralife powerbarrs are good but pricy. I use the programmable digital ones that are set for automatic on/off functions for all my tanks. These are good if your lighting doesn't have timers build in.


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Where's all the rock? I hope sitting in sw - cause it won't be so live if it's been out for several hours.


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## jason1985 (Jul 8, 2009)

They are sitting in salt water is beer cooler


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## KnaveTO (May 13, 2007)

jason1985 said:


> They are sitting in salt water is beer cooler


NOOOOOOO must be for beer only!!!! 

My salt stuff has a specific pail

Sorry the Northern Canadian in me took over for a second


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## jason1985 (Jul 8, 2009)

Ok so I removed all the Tufa Rock because it was just too damn hard to get my live rock stable. So right now I'm setup with 20lbs of Live Rock and all the rock is stable. The bottom peices are sitting on the glass.

Still a bad picture, but I'll have my digital cam back soon.. Love when people borrow things and forget to give them back.

There are holes all around so the fish can go hide and play.


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## jason1985 (Jul 8, 2009)

Should I buy an anemone and maybe 2 clowns to start?


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## KnaveTO (May 13, 2007)

jason1985 said:


> Should I buy an anemone and maybe 2 clowns to start?


I would stay away from the anemone for now. Contrary to myth clowns don't need them. Let your tank cycle (can take a week or usually more) and then start with some simple cleaners. Let them settle and then think about fish and corals.

I used a live sand from Managerie that is new on the market Natures Ocean and that helped my tank cycle that much faster along with the cured live rock. My tank cycled in a week. However that isn't the norm from what I have been able to tell.


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## Katsafados (Jul 15, 2009)

jason1985 said:


> Should I buy an anemone and maybe 2 clowns to start?


Isnt an anemone pushing it for your tank? I think they need more room specially since you want other corals. Once the anemone gets larger itll kill all your corals.

Plus what do you have for lighting? They usually need higher light.

Start with a CUC, then fish, then coral.


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## Katsafados (Jul 15, 2009)

KnaveTO said:


> I would stay away from the anemone for now. Contrary to myth clowns don't need them. Let your tank cycle (can take a week or usually more) and then start with some simple cleaners. Let them settle and then think about fish and corals.
> 
> I used a live sand from Managerie that is new on the market Natures Ocean and that helped my tank cycle that much faster along with the cured live rock. My tank cycled in a week. However that isn't the norm from what I have been able to tell.


Thats a damn fast cycle. Are you sure it cycled or what you were seeing was the spikes then drops to zero. Usually when tanks cycles ammonia will spike then drop then nitrite spike then zero then nitrate spike then zero(with water changes and maybe some macro algae.). My cycle lasted about a month!


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## KnaveTO (May 13, 2007)

I have had freshwater tanks for over 2 years and before that for about 5years in one of my old residences (90gal). I did about a years worth of research before even dipping my hand into saltwater tanks. I am pretty sure the tank cycled.


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## Katsafados (Jul 15, 2009)

KnaveTO said:


> I have had freshwater tanks for over 2 years and before that for about 5years in one of my old residences (90gal). I did about a years worth of research before even dipping my hand into saltwater tanks. I am pretty sure the tank cycled.


Thats good lol. You have the same hands on experience as me! lmfao. Cichlid tanks! lol Plus I go to school for biochemistry, so it helps out a bit because we touch on marine life and what not.


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## jason1985 (Jul 8, 2009)

When they say the Live Rock is cured. What doe that really mean for when you put the rock into a new tank?


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## KnaveTO (May 13, 2007)

Cured Live Rock has been settled in a container of some sort and allowed to cure for a period of a few weeks. This rock will already have some beneficial bacteria on it from the process. By purchasing cured live rock you are reducing the time needed in cycling a new aquarium as the rock that you are placing in your tank has already gone through the process at the store level. There will be less die off and smaller spikes when setting up your tank. 

Uncured rock will take much longer to cycle your tank and the spikes in ammonia, nitrates and nitrites will be much greater.


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## Katsafados (Jul 15, 2009)

jason1985 said:


> When they say the Live Rock is cured. What doe that really mean for when you put the rock into a new tank?


Cured Lr means that the rock has been conditioned, and has went through a cyclke already. The living organisms that are on the rock have died off, produced an ammonia spike and now are stable. Meaning everything on the rock is acctually alive now and not dieing off.


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## jason1985 (Jul 8, 2009)

The live rock i put in my tank had already been cured for 10 weeks even before it was brought out into the showroom for sale.


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## KnaveTO (May 13, 2007)

Cured LR is always much better to purchase and worth the extra money IMHO


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## Katsafados (Jul 15, 2009)

KnaveTO said:


> Cured LR is always much better to purchase and worth the extra money IMHO


Uncured gives you a better cycle! lol but if you have time to waste.


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## jason1985 (Jul 8, 2009)

KnaveTO said:


> Cured LR is always much better to purchase and worth the extra money IMHO


I paid $5.50 lbs for Indo is that a decent price.. I seen it go for 8 dollars at other places. all depends where you buy and how much you buy but this guy in ottawa is pretty good


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## Katsafados (Jul 15, 2009)

jason1985 said:


> I paid $5.50 lbs for Indo is that a decent price.. I seen it go for 8 dollars at other places. all depends where you buy and how much you buy but this guy in ottawa is pretty good


Paid $7 for figi.


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Cured rock has little or no cycle. Hence cured - it's gone through the process of re-developing the bacterial cultures that are supposed to be established throughout the rock.

$5.50 retail is pretty standard. When I first started I paid $8/lb for mine.


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## jason1985 (Jul 8, 2009)

the Figi was nice but he only had 5/lb of it left. The Marine shops in my area are limited and I don't count Big Als as a Marine shop...


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## KnaveTO (May 13, 2007)

jason1985 said:


> the Figi was nice but he only had 5/lb of it left. The Marine shops in my area are limited and I don't count Big Als as a Marine shop...


I never count BA's as anything but a nuisance... LOL

I have seen much higher prices for LR here in Toronto so you are probably doing good.


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## jason1985 (Jul 8, 2009)

Water Test Results:
Nitrate: 0
Nitrite: 0.25
Amonia: 0
PH: 8.4

My Amonia is not spiking so I will force it by putting in a fresh shrimp from the grocery store.


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

No, you don't need to force the ammonia to spike anymore - you already have nitrites. To get nitrites, you need ammonia to develop first. 

Now just sit back and wait for that nitrite to turn into nitrate. Then you're set!


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## jason1985 (Jul 8, 2009)

Okay so Amonia "kills fish" but that turns into Nitrite, "bad for fish too" Nitrite turns into Nitrate that is okay for fish but will cause algea to grow so I do water changes every few weeks to keep the nitrate numbers low


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## KnaveTO (May 13, 2007)

jason1985 said:


> Okay so Amonia "kills fish" but that turns into Nitrite, "bad for fish too" Nitrite turns into Nitrate that is okay for fish but will cause algea to grow so I do water changes every few weeks to keep the nitrate numbers low


Exactly right. The water cycle is the same for fresh as well as salt water tanks.


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

jason1985 said:


> Okay so Amonia "kills fish" but that turns into Nitrite, "bad for fish too" Nitrite turns into Nitrate that is okay for fish but will cause algea to grow so I do water changes every few weeks to keep the nitrate numbers low


wait on water changes till you get nitrates. Then keep on doing them every week or so. After a week of getting no ammonia or nitrites, you'd be ready to add your first hardy aquarium resident - I would try an easy fish. Most people elect to add in clean up crew (snails, hermits, etc), but right now they probably have nothing to eat in your tank.


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## jason1985 (Jul 8, 2009)

I have An Emerald Crab and 10 Hermits. They seam to be chewing away on the live rocks besides the Emerald Crab he/she is always hidding. This morning I seen a baby Emerlad Crab for the frist time walking around. Wonder where he came from...


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## jason1985 (Jul 8, 2009)

I will put two fish in tonight and see what happens


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## jason1985 (Jul 8, 2009)

Anyway for now i have 
10 snails
15 hermits
1 clown
1 Cardinal


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## jason1985 (Jul 8, 2009)

Here he is


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Don't add anything more! The fact that you have nitrites and no nitrates indicates you have an incomplete cycle going on there. 

Hold off on adding more things lest you add greater strain to the tank and cause deaths.


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## jason1985 (Jul 8, 2009)

Here are my readings as of this morning
Ammonia: 0ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm
Nitrate: 10ppm

Fish are still swimming strong. The Clown is a feisty one!


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## KnaveTO (May 13, 2007)

First as for the baby crab... make sure it is a good crab, becuase it is probably a hitchhiker (comes in on live rock). As for your stock... take it slow. I know as a new reefkeeper there is the urge to always grab one more thing... resitance is not futile but safe


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## jason1985 (Jul 8, 2009)

All 3 crabs have been hitchhikers... 1 large 1 medium and 1 baby. Not too sure how these crabs mate but they were ontop of one another yesterday hanging upside down off a rock


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Can you get a picture of them? Are they hairy? Pointy or spoon shaped claw ends?


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## jason1985 (Jul 8, 2009)

I will try and get a picture of them but it's hard they are never really in the open. Hairy Legs and Spoon shaped claws


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

What colour? black or green?

Green could be an emerald mithrax:








I recently found one tiny one like this as hitch hiker in my frag tank.

I just fished out a big black mithrax from Knave's tank too. Big guy lives in my sump now.

Either way, they shouldn't be too much of a problem - some can, some others aren't, just depends on the crab you got.


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## KnaveTO (May 13, 2007)

ameekplec. said:


> What colour? black or green?
> 
> Green could be an emerald mithrax:
> 
> ...


Yes and I am very appreciative that you saw it ans we were able to get it out of my tank. Hope he is happy in your frag tank.


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Meh, he lives in the ump - I haven't seen him since I put him in, an nothing is missing, so I'm all good.

I'll check in few days when I do a WC to see if he's still alive.


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## jason1985 (Jul 8, 2009)

I seen one of them tonight but couldn;t get a good picture shot. Halfway hidden under a rock.

They are Black


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## jason1985 (Jul 8, 2009)

here we go


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## KnaveTO (May 13, 2007)

Looking good there


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## jason1985 (Jul 8, 2009)

how common is it that hermet crabs eat snails and take over their shells... I have 10 snails now it appears to be down to 8 with 2 hermets walking around with the snail shells...


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## KnaveTO (May 13, 2007)

It can definately happen. It could also be those crabs you have wandering around in your tank


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## jason1985 (Jul 8, 2009)

That's the thing. When I got the hermits I picked up about 10 extra smallers shells... I didn't want them to move into bigger shells so they stay small.

It could be the crabs but I never see them out in the open, unless they come out during the day when I'm not around...


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## blossom112 (Mar 19, 2008)

tank looks great ...
I had to replace snails all the time !
yep I to put extra shells in and for some reason they never touched them .
guess the one that is lived in is always better (and comes with a meal )

I think knave is right and it may be the crabs .
as thats what i found in my tank and removed them and never had to buy another snail!

this site is very good may help you on your way!

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/index.htm


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## jason1985 (Jul 8, 2009)

Well no more snails. the hermits had cleaned them all out.





I watched how they do it. 2 or 3 gang up on the snails, flip them around and just go at them until nothing is left. I have 7 empty shells + the ones I added myself and 2 others snail shells being used by hermits.


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## Ciddian (Mar 15, 2006)

awee sneaky little dudes.. lol


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## blossom112 (Mar 19, 2008)

sry to hear that!!!
bummer ...


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## jason1985 (Jul 8, 2009)

My local shop said my snails probably died and then the hermits make them into a snack..

well I don't think this is true since I seen the snails moving around and then have 2-3 hermits crawl all over them, flip them around and then eat out the shell...

Maybe they were weak I don't know. Could my water quality kill the snails? Everything else has been living just fine and my tests are still good....


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## KnaveTO (May 13, 2007)

Turbo snails are notorious for not being able to handle captivity and dying off. I had 3 types of snails in my tank as well as crabs. The crabs have definately gotten bigger, lost all but 1 of my turbos and all the other snails are still there. So I either have very well behaved crabs... and I doubt that or your crabs will killing off sick snails. BTW what type of crabs do you have in there?


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## jason1985 (Jul 8, 2009)

Hermit Crab Blue Leg


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## jason1985 (Jul 8, 2009)

Ok so We learn new things everyday. I figured my heater would maintaing the tempurate of the water at about 77. The water felt as if it was very very warm so I went and bought a stick on thermometer and there we have it 82 F water temp...

The right temp to keep a reef tank is what 75F? 


I understand that my lighting produces some heat but I didn't think the temp would climb that high... The aquarium is not infront of a window or any other source of heat and my place is rather cool.

Any suggestions?

I'm still with my Clown, Banggai Cardinal and 15 hermits walking around with Snail Shells. 

I feed a cube of mysis shrimp every night


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