# Fish Fighters



## Joeee (Apr 3, 2010)

How do you guys view fish fighting and those who condone fish fighting? Under the Criminal Code of Canada it is not a criminal offence as a fish is not defined as an animal or small mammal such as a hamster or mouse. However, for any responsible fishkeeper it does feel like there is moral implication to it. Are there any groups in Canada or the GTA even that are pushing for the criminalization of fish fighting, or the unnecessary suffering of fish for the purposes of pleasure, sport, or leisure?


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## Ciddian (Mar 15, 2006)

On Ultimatebettas any posting of betta fighting is not allowed. I don't look on it as a good thing. However, you can talk about the breeds and breeding of the five star plakat and stuff like that.

I do think the plakat in general is a beautiful fish, its like bulldogs, bred to hunt bears and and fight but the animal is mistreated and misused so much because it has become a culture in a way.

Its the same with the fish, people have grown up and its a part of a culture. Doesn't make it okay IMHO but it also is difficult to explain why it might be looked on as bad here. Sometimes you can try to explain forever that it is wrong but people do not have respect for the animal.

They fight in the wild is not a good enough excuse, there is a difference between being pitted in a cup vs. random encounters out in the wild with lots of space to retreat to if needed.

Some would argue that some fight the traditional or correct way. Some fighting clubs only let a few bites land before separating the fish so no hard really comes to them, but in most cases and if you do a search on you tube its just a collection 'thugs' looking for another way to come of as 'cool' or whatever crap.

That one post that came up was closed as soon as it was flagged. I am unsure of how the other mods stand but I personally do not really accept it.


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## Holidays (Apr 18, 2010)

now what dyall think about UFC coming to Toronto 

mammal vs mammal


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

The only animal fighting I condone is cricket fighting.


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## 50seven (Feb 14, 2010)

Totally different from animal fighting. Animals fight with a killer instinct. UFC and crap like that is all choreographed and all for a spectacular and real-looking experience for the viewer. Like paintball or airsoft, where the objective is to shoot and "kill" your opponent, but nobody physically gets hurt.

Intentionally bringing pain or physical harm to any creature of any size is morally wrong, IMO. If you get enjoyment from watching another creature suffer in pain, you need like serious professional help.

Thanks to the mods for shutting down any questionable threads and stuff!

Sent from my HTC Magic using Tapatalk


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## bigfishy (Jun 19, 2009)

50seven said:


> Totally different from animal fighting. Animals fight with a killer instinct. UFC and crap like that is all choreographed and all for a spectacular and real-looking experience for the viewer. Like paintball or airsoft, where the objective is to shoot and "kill" your opponent, but nobody physically gets hurt.


I agree, that's what games are for! Time to shoot some COPS in Grand Thief Auto Liberty City


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## bae (May 11, 2007)

I agree very much with Ciddian's post.

On the other hand, while we have humane slaughter rules for mammals and birds, even if they aren't carefully observed, and rules for farming animals and birds, even though in many cases these food animals live under pretty depressing conditions, horrible ones if you have respect for the animal as a natural creature with instincts and the ability to feel comfortable or stressed, there are no rules for fish. If there were, the fishing industry would be destroyed -- think about how tons of fish are bashed around in nets for hours and dumped into the holds to die slowly. Even sport fishing isn't very humane from the fish's point of view -- snagged in the mouth or throat, 'played' to exhaustion, then pulled out to flop around or strung through the gills and dragged behind the boat. If people treated mammals or birds that way we'd think of them as monsters.

That said, I eat meat and poultry and fish, and like most people try not to think about how the food got to the supermarket. I've raised poultry, killed and eaten it -- at one time I believed that that was the only honest way of eating meat. But I got over it.


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## Holidays (Apr 18, 2010)

And we don't need PETA telling us fishkeepers that transporting fish across the world is to torture and kill alot of them.


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## Will (Jul 24, 2008)

50seven said:


> Totally different from animal fighting. Animals fight with a killer instinct. UFC and crap like that is all choreographed and all for a spectacular and real-looking experience for the viewer.


You're mestaken, UFC isn't choreographed.


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## Holidays (Apr 18, 2010)

Will Hayward said:


> You're mestaken, UFC isn't choreographed.


the "fighter insulting one another" part most of it is choreographed to hypen the fight


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## Will (Jul 24, 2008)

Holidays said:


> the "fighter insulting one another" part most of it is choreographed to hypen the fight


Thats just all crafty editing of the interviews they do in the weeks proceeding the fight. There are plenty of top ranked fighters who never speak a negative word of their opponents, even after building years of competitive rivalry. They do the same thing in most competitive sports.

Thought, I'm sure bettas would badmouth each other before a fight.


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## Holidays (Apr 18, 2010)

Will Hayward said:


> Thats just all crafty editing of the interviews they do in the weeks proceeding the fight. There are plenty of top ranked fighters who never speak a negative word of their opponents, even after building years of competitive rivalry. They do the same thing in most competitive sports.
> 
> Thought, I'm sure bettas would badmouth each other before a fight.


eh? who doesn't like hype?


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## bae (May 11, 2007)

Holidays said:


> And we don't need PETA telling us fishkeepers that transporting fish across the world is to torture and kill alot of them.


While the people on this board are generally interested in providing the best care for their fish, just go into a big box store sometime and look around. What fraction of the fish you see will still be alive and healthy in six months or a year? A lot of people buy fish like cut flowers and assume its normal for them to die within a few weeks or months. Ignorance results in a slow tortured death for most aquarium fish. Unfortunately it's mostly willful ignorance -- a vast amount of info in books and on the web is readily available for anyone who wants it.


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## Joeee (Apr 3, 2010)

bae said:


> While the people on this board are generally interested in providing the best care for their fish, just go into a big box store sometime and look around. What fraction of the fish you see will still be alive and healthy in six months or a year? A lot of people buy fish like cut flowers and assume its normal for them to die within a few weeks or months. Ignorance results in a slow tortured death for most aquarium fish. Unfortunately it's mostly willful ignorance -- a vast amount of info in books and on the web is readily available for anyone who wants it.


I agree with you with the exception of one thing in the first sentence. I would like to change it to "While most people on this board..." instead of "While the people on this board...".

I do agree with everything else though, I was wondering if sales representatives at stores such as Big Al's really need to do some suggestive selling if they know what they are talking about. When you factor in mind the costs of all the requirements to keep a fish happy (for the most part) and healthy, giving responsible information seems amount to higher sales rather than trying to sell products whicmount of money you would make h a customer does not need.

I have an example about a recent visit to Big Al's;
I visited a BA's and a sales representative gave bad advice, a father bought a 1G starter kit from Wal-Mart for his daughter for $20. The sales representative tells the father to buy three guppies for the 1G (he chose 2 males and 1 female). I spoke to the father about proper care, what he would need to begin an aquarium and why putting 2 males and a single female guppy inside a 1G aquarium will not work. I also happened to mention about the 10G starter kit which was one sale at the time (for $35) and he decided to buy the 10G kit and on my advice and he decided, on his own accord, to purchase a small book about starting an aquarium. He did not leave with any fish and was considering a fishless cycle, although he did note that his daughter would become impatient and would want to put fish in as soon as she could.


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## Holidays (Apr 18, 2010)

I think we have a pretty good system here regarding acquiring pet fish for relatively cheap and readily available. Imagine if we bash each other and our voices are heard and interpreted in a worse way, PETA get their ways and there is a new regulation where fish must be treated better. They must be transported in a special plane with tanks where proper heater and aeration required preventing deaths and tortures. Not just plastic bags and heat packs, which does not give adequate space and regulate heat properly. Think about the cost of transporting that? buying a discus for $800. Or worse PETA get their way and we can’t keep fish in an aquarium. So fishkeepers do not need bash each other instead stick together. I saw so many animal fighting in indonesia, I hate it but I am still a fishkeeper and I know my cause.


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## Holidays (Apr 18, 2010)

Even if we turn blind eye to the fish transportation part, and we expect LFS to invest more money into better care of the fish, like staff training, more staff employment, bigger tanks and etc....all of those cost will be passed back to consumers. The ludicrous price on kijiji won't be so ludicrous anymore...hehe.


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

Holidays said:


> Even if we turn blind eye to the fish transportation part, and we expect LFS to invest more money into better care of the fish, like staff training, more staff employment, bigger tanks and etc....all of those cost will be passed back to consumers. The ludicrous price on kijiji won't be so ludicrous anymore...hehe.


Not necessarily. I'm sure with some study and experimentation, it is possible to design ornamental fish transports that are far more hospitable to the fish without incurring major additional costs. Further, the resultant drop in fish mortality will reduce the individual cost of the fish.


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## Holidays (Apr 18, 2010)

solarz said:


> Not necessarily. I'm sure with some study and experimentation, it is possible to design ornamental fish transports that are far more hospitable to the fish without incurring major additional costs. Further, the resultant drop in fish mortality will reduce the individual cost of the fish.


yeh...it's easier to dream though and blame others.


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