# Crud on zoa colony in quarantine



## Bayinaung

So I got this zoa colony last week. It smelled bad. putrid. isolated it in its own QT. I posted it on RC:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=22463612#post22463612

didn't really get a satisfactory answer. then a few days ago this colony got CRUD on the polyps and milky stuff in the nano tank. it doesn't smell anymore (after carbon) but that crud still remains on polyps after using a toothbrush to gently brush it off polyps. has anyone seen anything like it?


----------



## fury165

Looks like Zoapox to me. Get yourself some Furan 2 and try this treatment http://www.zoaid.com/articles004.php


----------



## Bayinaung

yeah it looks a lot like zoa pox. especially the pic of the vietnamese guy with the initial stages of zoa pox. my colony went from completely healthy to covered in this stuff in 8 hours. I'm serious.


----------



## Bayinaung

rummaged through my aquarium storage box and YESSSSSSSSSSS I have furan-2! not expires till 2016. Man it's a good thing I'm a bit of a hoarder when it comes to aquarium equipment and medications. I got a whole bunch of aquaclear filters and I'm using them for all the corals in quarantine. I knew they'd be useful sometime. this is working out for me.


----------



## damsel_den

Bayinaung said:


> rummaged through my aquarium storage box and YESSSSSSSSSSS I have furan-2! not expires till 2016. Man it's a good thing I'm a bit of a hoarder when it comes to aquarium equipment and medications. I got a whole bunch of aquaclear filters and I'm using them for all the corals in quarantine. I knew they'd be useful sometime. this is working out for me.


I'm an aquarium equipment hoarder too lol


----------



## Bayinaung

man you can't have enough spare powerheads pumps heaters filters.


----------



## damsel_den

For once I agree with you Bayinaung lmao


----------



## fury165

Bayinaung said:


> rummaged through my aquarium storage box and YESSSSSSSSSSS I have furan-2! not expires till 2016. Man it's a good thing I'm a bit of a hoarder when it comes to aquarium equipment and medications. I got a whole bunch of aquaclear filters and I'm using them for all the corals in quarantine. I knew they'd be useful sometime. this is working out for me.


Don't know how big the colony is but make sure you have enough.. 1 packet per cup of water and a minimum of 3 treatments. Put it in the smallest vessel you can submerge the colony in to reduce the number of packets you have to use.


----------



## Patwa

its most definitely is not zoa pox.

however, it is a very damaging ailment and can kill zoas in hours or days. it is a bacterial/fungal infection.

Did you get this from Big Al's? those fools got in a massive shipment of vietnamese zoa colonies and put them ALL into the same tank with no flow or even any dips. I could see issues like this starting up. i always wonder why they continue to sell coral when they have no idea how to prep them

your mistake was to brush the colony (or otherwise be aggressive) as you only injured or further damaged the tissue, further helping the bacteria to colonize

when i used to collect zoas i used to dip my zoas into a mixture of hydrogen peroxide and tank water....i forgot the ratio but i think it was like 10:1 (water/peroxide)...i woudl do this every few hours. you can increase the ratio (no harm will come to a closed zoa polyp, so dont be afraid to crank up the ratio)

i did lose zoas everytime, but I was able to save some. otherwise, left untreated, your whole colony will perish


----------



## sig

I had one time almost identical "look" on the zoas colony. At the same time the knowledgeable guy visited me to buy something and told me that this is bacterial stuff.

I used Coral Revive and Coral RX, but nothing helped.

*100% free webcam site! | Awesome chicks and it is absolutely free! | Watch free live sex cam - easy as 1-2-3*


----------



## explor3r

I dont know if sounds silly but thats why I like to smell the coral before I take it home, if something smells out of the normal I will doubt to take it, at the end is just a hassle.
It is good to inspect properly your corals as much as you can obviously most store wont let you put your hands in the water to take it out and smell but you can ask for that before they bag it.
It is good that when u get home take your time and inspect for pest with magnifying glass if possible we all know this guys are small and hard to see with the naked eye.
Dip all your corals with no exception and while u do that shake it inside the water Im sure you will see all kind of things falling off your corals specially zoas and palys....
Hope that helps


----------



## sig

explor3r said:


> I dont know if sounds silly but thats why I like to smell the coral before I take it home, if something smells out of the normal I will doubt to take it, at the end is just a hassle.
> It is good to inspect properly your corals as much as you can obviously most store wont let you put your hands in the water to take it out and smell but you can ask for that before they bag it.
> It is good that when u get home take your time and inspect for pest with magnifying glass if possible we all know this guys are small and hard to see with the naked eye.
> Dip all your corals with no exception and while u do that shake it inside the water Im sure you will see all kind of things falling off your corals specially zoas and palys....
> Hope that helps


do you spray all your frags whit perfume. They always smell good 

*100% free webcam site! | Awesome chicks and it is absolutely free! | Watch free live sex cam - easy as 1-2-3*


----------



## Patwa

just to drive the message home: if you have an infection as bayinaung has, dip it with peroxide/water, or whatever product you can find and dip them often! an infection as bad as the OP's will take lots and lots of time to stabilize and recover, but you will lose polyps in the process, guaranteed

re: the peroxide method

I would dip maybe 2 or 3 times that day and repeat for the next 3 or 4 days. I would leave the zoa colony in the peroxide solution for at least 10 mins or less (if the peroxide ratio is stronger)

z


----------



## fury165

Patwa said:


> its most definitely is not zoa pox.
> 
> however, it is a very damaging ailment and can kill zoas in hours or days. it is a bacterial/fungal infection.


That is exactly what zoa pox is...a bacterial infection. The photo quality is not very good, however on a number of polyps there are white dots. I have had a few mini colonies develop exactly the same crusty covering, which of course cannot just be scrubbed off. Using Furan 2 I have been able to save a good portion of the colony/frag. Brandon from Zoanthids.com and I have discussed Furan 2 and they even recommend it for sensitive zoas that are closed and not looking so good, even though they do not have zoa pox.

I have experimented with peroxide but it does not work for zoa pox - but does a great job of killing Algae on frag plugs et al. The only treatment I have tried that works is Furan 2...works for a lot of people on RC as well.


----------



## fury165

sig said:


> do you spray all your frags whit perfume. They always smell good


Coco butter


----------



## Bayinaung

woa yeah it's nasty definitely. the whole colony stank very strongly. I guess that should've been my indication of an infection. Hydrogen peroxide eh? time to visit the drugstore then. coz the antibacterial stuff isn't helping. but this might be too late for hydrogen peroxide? I'll let it sit in QT and see how it goes. whatever survives is a plus.


----------



## fury165

So how much of the procedure did you follow? Did you do the three dips and allow them to rest for 4-7 days? It may require additional treatments based on your pic - but your call if you want to jump to the next possible solution. Good luck


----------



## Bayinaung

I did three dips. the odor isn't bad anymore but crud is still there. so I might use peroxide to burn off the crud or wash it off then do the dips again.


----------



## Patwa

fury165 said:


> That is exactly what zoa pox is...a bacterial infection. The photo quality is not very good, however on a number of polyps there are white dots. I have had a few mini colonies develop exactly the same crusty covering, which of course cannot just be scrubbed off. Using Furan 2 I have been able to save a good portion of the colony/frag. Brandon from Zoanthids.com and I have discussed Furan 2 and they even recommend it for sensitive zoas that are closed and not looking so good, even though they do not have zoa pox.
> 
> I have experimented with peroxide but it does not work for zoa pox - but does a great job of killing Algae on frag plugs et al. The only treatment I have tried that works is Furan 2...works for a lot of people on RC as well.


Im not debating what zoa pox is and what it is not. What I am doing is stating that what the OP posted is not zoa pox. it is an infection caused by the accumulation of detritus coupled with the stress of being ripped out the ocean, packaged and shipped, without any proper care given to acclimation, that ultimately weakens the animal so that it cannot protect or fight off the disease to the point of necrosis and further festering of the tissue

anyhoo...peroxide works primarily as a preventative measure (i use it on all zoa colonies and frags wrt to my display tank). But its usefulness, when used on a colony so badly affected like what the OP has, is limited. It does work for zoas though. It does the same thing it does for humans as it does for the zoas: disinfect (ie. with repetitive use)

Furan2 works for a wide variety of things....this and that...no complaint there

Using peroxide to treat algae...sure....it's documented, more power to you.

i was thinking this brandon from zoanthids.com was some researcher and expert in zoanthid biology and pathoogy....lol he's just a zoa fanatic selling zoas, so he becomes a defacto zoa expert...ok

this site is what i used years ago for proper help and advice on zoas...not sure how active it is these days though, it's been like 6 years since i was on it

http://zoaid.com/index.php?module=Gallery2&g2_itemId=384

z


----------



## fury165

Patwa said:


> Im not debating what zoa pox is and what it is not. What I am doing is stating that what the OP posted is not zoa pox. it is an infection caused by the accumulation of detritus coupled with the stress of being ripped out the ocean, packaged and shipped, without any proper care given to acclimation, that ultimately weakens the animal so that it cannot protect or fight off the disease to the point of necrosis and further festering of the tissue
> 
> anyhoo...peroxide works primarily as a preventative measure (i use it on all zoa colonies and frags wrt to my display tank). But its usefulness, when used on a colony so badly affected like what the OP has, is limited. It does work for zoas though. It does the same thing it does for humans as it does for the zoas: disinfect (ie. with repetitive use)
> 
> Furan2 works for a wide variety of things....this and that...no complaint there
> 
> Using peroxide to treat algae...sure....it's documented, more power to you.
> 
> i was thinking this brandon from zoanthids.com was some researcher and expert in zoanthid biology and pathoogy....lol he's just a zoa fanatic selling zoas, so he becomes a defacto zoa expert...ok
> 
> this site is what i used years ago for proper help and advice on zoas...not sure how active it is these days though, it's been like 6 years since i was on it
> 
> http://zoaid.com/index.php?module=Gallery2&g2_itemId=384
> 
> z


So if you bothered to read my first post you would see i linked to the Furan article on zoaid.com - so it is "documented" in your own words. 
As for Brandon, lets see.. he runs a very lucrative business cultivating and selling high end zoas and palys. So yes I think his experience and advice has high merit compared to say you or I.

Forgive me, you have just joined the forum and I am not familiar with you - Perhaps you can share some of your background and what qualifies you as a defacto zoa expert?


----------



## aquatic_expressions

I'm no expert but I agrees that is not ZOa Pox. I believe Patwa with the nail in the head. 

I would suggest increasing the flow or using a turkey baster to propel water through the piece. I think a melafix marine dip/bath would work well but after the dip you want to dip in a fresh clean source of aquarium water and then place it back in QT or aquarium.

Hope this helps...

I tend to only do peroxide dips for nuisance algae.

Just my 2 cents


----------



## Patwa

fury165 said:


> So if you bothered to read my first post you would see i linked to the Furan article on zoaid.com - so it is "documented" in your own words.
> As for Brandon, lets see.. he runs a very lucrative business cultivating and selling high end zoas and palys. So yes I think his experience and advice has high merit compared to say you or I.
> 
> Forgive me, you have just joined the forum and I am not familiar with you - Perhaps you can share some of your background and what qualifies you as a defacto zoa expert?


lol ...am I knocking Furan in any way *AT ALL*? no...read again, Fury...if it works, great....but so does peroxide. Your "experiment" with peroxide might have failed, but it succeeded for many, many other reefers out there over many years, including me. i'm encouraging the OP to use it, as his zoa colony is in majorly bad shape.

I'm no zoa expert, but i've been around a very long time, and during that time i've focused my interest on zoas and palys (hell i've even named a few on Zoaid that people STILL use to this day). So while i'm humble enough to not consider myself a zoa "expert", others have (much to my chagrin, mind you).

Google my name and the word 'reef' and see....hell if you care, go onto ReefCentral or AP and find me....lot of posts and threads authored by me over the past 10 years to choose from LOL.

My first reef was in 2002, my new reef (80gal cube) was custom built by me, by hand, even the tank and stand itself

i also like long walks on the beach....golden sunsets, fuzzy cats and rum 'n cokes


----------



## aquatic_expressions

Patwa! I missed you brother... I highly doubt you remember me but I purchased your indo teal donut a looooooong time ago and you gave me some free xenia from the cube in the solarium!

I will vouch as I'm sure many can vouch for him also. Very knowledgeable and an asset to our community and hobby!


----------



## fury165

Patwa said:


> lol ...am I knocking Furan in any way *AT ALL*? no...read again, Fury...if it works, great....but so does peroxide. Your "experiment" with peroxide might have failed, but it succeeded for many, many other reefers out there over many years, including me. i'm encouraging the OP to use it, as his zoa colony is in majorly bad shape.
> 
> I'm no zoa expert, but i've been around a very long time, and during that time i've focused my interest on zoas and palys (hell i've even named a few on Zoaid that people STILL use to this day). So while i'm humble enough to not consider myself a zoa "expert", others have (much to my chagrin, mind you).
> 
> Google my name and the word 'reef' and see....hell if you care, go onto ReefCentral or AP and find me....lot of posts and threads authored by me over the past 10 years to choose from LOL.
> 
> My first reef was in 2002, my new reef (80gal cube) was custom built by me, by hand, even the tank and stand itself
> 
> i also like long walks on the beach....golden sunsets, fuzzy cats and rum 'n cokes


Fair enough, glad to have a celebrity amongst us and i look forward to reading your threads over on RC. Hopefully something good on propagation methods.

Hope we didn't derail the thread but some more food for thought for the OP.


----------



## Patwa

aquatic_expressions said:


> Patwa! I missed you brother... I highly doubt you remember me but I purchased your indo teal donut a looooooong time ago and you gave me some free xenia from the cube in the solarium!
> 
> I will vouch as I'm sure many can vouch for him also. Very knowledgeable and an asset to our community and hobby!


aww man, yeah i don't recall you by name or the coral i sold you, actually, but I bet I would recognize you if I saw you in person. 

believe it or not I got out of the reef hobby for about 5 years and got serious into bonsai, all the while that frag tank you saw in my solarium was going (barely) 

wait 'til you see what I do with the new 80gal - it's currently on week #1 of its 8-10 week cycling process lol....the anticipation is killing me, hence why i spend my time grinding gears on the forums lol

EDIT: wait, I do recall a teal scoly! ....a scolymia vitiensis, yeah? a sorta flat scoly..teal/bluish? ...i think it was from a Tonga shipment from WTR if I recall correctly....do you still have it???



fury165 said:


> Fair enough, glad to have a celebrity amongst us and i look forward to reading your threads over on RC. Hopefully something good on propagation methods.
> 
> Hope we didn't derail the thread but some more food for thought for the OP.


no probs.....i do come across harsh or as a know-it-all sometimes, so apologies if that is how you read me 

i do have some tried and true methods for propagating zoas, lps and softies, but from what i read these days, a lot of people are managing just fine on their own 

anyhow, I hope Bayinaung can save that zoa colony though....keep us posted, buddy!

z


----------



## Bayinaung

awesome! we get to know more things through discussion eh? now I know I can use peroxide for algae removal too. I'll pick up peroxide tomorrow and hope it burns off the crud. I tried the turkey baster. the crud doesn't come off it. it's like a milky thick film that's rather thick and clingy. that's why I tried to use a toothbrush the first time. yes zoas are much weakened at this time and will likely break up if I did anything remotely like the toothbrush (I was very gentle tho, not like brushing my teeth.. more like stroking the surface gently).

which zoas got ur name on them patwa? it sounds like you may have been more than a hobbyist. were you ever in the business?


----------



## sig

Patwa said:


> Google my name and the word 'reef' and see....hell if you care, go onto ReefCentral or AP and find me....lot of posts and threads authored by me over the past 10 years to choose from LOL.
> My first reef was in 2002, my new reef (80gal cube) was custom built by me, by hand, even the tank and stand itself


just talking . look at my signature and show us something 

*100% free webcam site! | Awesome chicks and it is absolutely free! | Watch free live sex cam - easy as 1-2-3*


----------



## Ben J

I agree with what Patwa is saying on here and what A. Grandis is saying on R.C. Definitely does not look like zoa pox. Zoa pox looks like legitimate spots or pimples on the stock of the zoanthid. That looks more like a film, and some of the zoas towards the film look more like they are withering away..


----------



## Patwa

Bayinaung said:


> which zoas got ur name on them patwa? it sounds like you may have been more than a hobbyist. were you ever in the business?


Hey....never really been in the business full-out, but i did sell frags nationwide for a short while. I shipped to the reefers out east and west often, but only for a summer or so.

I did/do have many reefer friends, some of which owned or managed stores....my closest were Daniel at AK ....and Ryan at AK/WTR (now R2O) - not friends with him anymore, actually...(long story, but if you're up for some kicks, ask him about it and you can prolly see his face turn red and an evil grin appear in less than 2 seconds)

the zoas I named

http://zoaid.com/index.php?module=Gallery2&g2_itemId=1158
http://zoaid.com/index.php?module=Gallery2&g2_itemId=3461
http://zoaid.com/index.php?module=Gallery2&g2_itemId=4587
http://zoaid.com/index.php?module=Gallery2&g2_itemId=3469
http://zoaid.com/index.php?module=Gallery2&g2_itemId=4701
http://zoaid.com/index.php?module=Gallery2&g2_itemId=1912

and i wish i named this one first lol
http://zoaid.com/index.php?module=Gallery2&g2_itemId=3965

z


----------



## explor3r

Patwa said:


> Hey....never really been in the business full-out, but i did sell frags nationwide for a short while. I shipped to the reefers out east and west often, but only for a summer or so.
> 
> I did/do have many reefer friends, some of which owned or managed stores....my closest were Daniel at AK ....and Ryan at AK/WTR (now R2O) - not friends with him anymore, actually...(long story, but if you're up for some kicks, ask him about it and you can prolly see his face turn red and an evil grin appear in less than 2 seconds)
> 
> the zoas I named
> 
> http://zoaid.com/index.php?module=Gallery2&g2_itemId=1158
> http://zoaid.com/index.php?module=Gallery2&g2_itemId=3461
> http://zoaid.com/index.php?module=Gallery2&g2_itemId=4587
> http://zoaid.com/index.php?module=Gallery2&g2_itemId=3469
> http://zoaid.com/index.php?module=Gallery2&g2_itemId=4701
> http://zoaid.com/index.php?module=Gallery2&g2_itemId=1912
> 
> and i wish i named this one first lol
> http://zoaid.com/index.php?module=Gallery2&g2_itemId=3965
> 
> z


That is great!!!! I would feel really good knowing I named some zoas officially.


----------



## Bayinaung

Patwa said:


> .and Ryan at AK/WTR (now R2O) - not friends with him anymore, actually...(long story, but if you're up for some kicks, ask him about it and you can prolly see his face turn red and an evil grin appear in less than 2 seconds)


LOL yeah I will! Ilove inside stuff


----------



## Bayinaung

Patwa said:


> the zoas I named
> 
> http://zoaid.com/index.php?module=Gallery2&g2_itemId=1158
> http://zoaid.com/index.php?module=Gallery2&g2_itemId=3461
> http://zoaid.com/index.php?module=Gallery2&g2_itemId=4587
> http://zoaid.com/index.php?module=Gallery2&g2_itemId=3469
> http://zoaid.com/index.php?module=Gallery2&g2_itemId=4701
> http://zoaid.com/index.php?module=Gallery2&g2_itemId=1912
> 
> and i wish i named this one first lol
> http://zoaid.com/index.php?module=Gallery2&g2_itemId=3965
> 
> z


nice stuff patwa. I think I've seen northern lights and oxides around.. aren't they calling it orange bambam? both look orange to me but there's a slight diff.

what are you collecting these days?


----------



## aquatic_expressions

Oxides and BamBams are different...

Bam bams are solid orange where oxides look like they have a ring.


----------



## Bayinaung

I was going to wash the rock with hydrogen peroxide. I pulled the rock up and everything including the crud fell off in flakes. not a single polyp left. that infection was bad. My nose is now part of my buying instruments! lol.


----------



## Patwa

Bayinaung said:


> I was going to wash the rock with hydrogen peroxide. I pulled the rock up and everything including the crud fell off in flakes. not a single polyp left. that infection was bad. My nose is now part of my buying instruments! lol.


sorry to hear!  that infection is bad news......100% of the time you're going to lose polyps. I may have been able to save a colony here or there when it was that bad, as yours was, but that essentially meant i had a handful of polyps left out of a hundred or so. rare case.

the nose knows! 



Bayinaung said:


> what are you collecting these days?


well, when i got out the hobby I had a pile of zoas and palys, so im trying my best to get them back again. PPEs, Purple Deaths, Nukes were at the top of my list (and were VERY expensive to acquire at the time). I remember pulling a mission to Virginia (US) to get those three....when I came back I posted them to my friends and they were sooo jealous coz you could not find them anywhere in the GTA lol! ...now, they're everywhere! and much more reasonably priced.

..but from reading the forums, i see lots of new morphs and have been collecting those too - like Captain Americas and Utter Chaos

BUT! my #1 fav zoa or paly is _by far_, palythoa grandis..... i currently have 6 different morphs, 5 of which survived from my old reefer days  I got a new one recently from reef wholesale via Carl's Aquarium. I'm always on the look out for more.

I do have one paly that i still don't see anywhere out there, even after all these years  I got it as a hitchhiker on an Aussie Acan from Reef Raft - deep purple centres, with a lime-green outer ring. These one are hardy as ever... I thought they all died so I tossed the rock in my sump. It was there for over a year and a half! ...until i noticed one was alive, so I brought it back into the DT and now I have two 



aquatic_expressions said:


> Oxides and BamBams are different...
> 
> Bam bams are solid orange where oxides look like they have a ring.


You got it! Oxides were from Dayne, another old skool reefer (he's one of the dudes I look up to). He also had the Mantis morph I named.


----------

