# Pull over | Recording the police audio/video??



## AquaNekoMobile (Feb 26, 2010)

Ok some of you are S.O's and some have LEO's are friends/training partners (Byroncile?). I have aquestion about recording the police.

I was not involved here. My dad just called me on the phone when he was pulled over by the police. I recently got him a GPS with bluetooth about a month ago so he has handsfree for the phone use. I'm not sure if he was holding the cellphone or not.

I would like to know is it legal or illegal to record audio, video, or audio + video of police?

I overheard the conversation with the police so I know my dad was not yelling and asking why he was being pulled over by the police. I don't know if my dad was on bluetooth speakerphone or cellphone or if the GPS allows both bluetooth speakerphone and cellphone mic/earpiece to work at the same time if the GPS speaker is fuzzy.

Bottom line is I did not record anything but just overheard the whole cop conversation with my dad. My understanding of recording of cops mainly comes from the USA where pending states video is ok but audio is not.

I did a google check but could not find anything relating to toronto other then the whole G8/20 thing. I found this.

http://www.torontopolice.on.ca/incarcamera/
http://news.nationalpost.com/2010/05/11/toronto-police-recording-encounters-with-public/

My questions are:

So I'm wondering can you ask the cop if pulled over to show you video if they say you did an infraction if they're behind you?

Can you record audio, video, or audio+video of the Toronto Police?

Thanks in advance.


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## 50seven (Feb 14, 2010)

I don't think they can keep you from making recordings, audio or video. Your car is your personal property and the roads are public property, and the police officer is there as a public official. It's not like China here, at least not yet. Personally I would not hesitate to record video and audio if I felt the proceedings were in any way questionable. 

Whether or not the recordings could be used as evidence in court, that I have no idea. 

Sent from my HTC Magic using Tapatalk


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## ynot (Jan 30, 2010)

It is my understanding you can record audio as long as one person in the audio recording knows they are being recorded. ie. I can record any conversation I have with anyone because I know I am recording myself in conversation. I can use said audio records to "refresh my memory of the conversation" which took place. This recording may or may not be admissible in civil court or criminal court. It is definitely unlawful to record audio of third party conversations without you being in the same room where the recording is taking place. ie. I can not leave an audio recorder in a room and leave that room; because it would be like an audio "bug". Police may do so with a court order.

You can also record video without audio within certain right to privacy guidelines. ie. no CCTV Surveillance in bathroom stalls.

You cannot legally record video and audio simultaneously without the person being aware it is taking place without a court order for Police.

Overhearing a conversation via bluetooth is okay; your overhearing the conversation and taking written notes may be submitted as evidence as the bluetooth device/cell phone left on is "an extension of the human ear". (ie. 911 operator hearing an assault taking place over an open landline and sending emergency vehicles). However, as mentioned earlier it cannot be legally recorded.
Hope that helps.


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## AquaNekoMobile (Feb 26, 2010)

What about the requesting to see the video as my unterstanding is all cop cars have cameras on them if you're pulled over?


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## ynot (Jan 30, 2010)

I don't think all Toronto Police cruisers have cameras. I think it is only the traffic units have cameras.
You can ask for the video from the police cruiser but I don't think you will succeed. I get the impression the only time those videos are reviewed are for investigations such as those conducted from the SIU. I'd imagine it would be similar to asking to read notes directly from a police officer's notebook.

Sounds to me you have something serious in mind. May I suggest you seek legal advice - first 30 minutes should be free.


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## Ciddian (Mar 15, 2006)

I don't think you can ask for a review of the video right then and there. He of course can fight the ticket in court. I am currently fighting a ticket myself. 

I am not sure if you can access the video for court purposes. You can and should request the cop to be there. Your father should also check ahead before any agreements to make sure the cop in question is there.

I would head down to your local police station and ask just to be sure.


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## AquaNekoMobile (Feb 26, 2010)

Well I wasn't in the car so I'm going with what my dad says. 

He has 2 tickets.

1. Red Light : Fail to Stop $325.00/3pts

2. Fail to ... (can't make out writing '...') on right for emergency vehicle $110.00/??pts


The #1 I'm not sure was and or is on camera if that patrol car was equipped. 

The reasoning for seeing the video is to my dad's knowledge he did not run a red light am to him it was the cop who said he did but the cop car was not to my understanding of the explanation positioned to have that on camera. 

Curious but IIRC the proceedure from my understanding (I likely know of this via the police traffic stop segments on CH24 and with Cam Wooley talking before) is that the cops have to 1. Turn thier flashing lights on to signal they are in emergency mode then 2. use thier siren to alert drivers so they can reference sound and visual cues to make out the direction of the emergency vehicle that is in emergency mode.

My understanding is that my dad did not hear the siren or see the flashing lights at the time till the cop pulled him over. I am normally quite attentive to emergency vehicle sounds so I know if I hear it I take to the right side of the road and slow down or stop pending how traffic in the area peels open a path for the emergency vehicle.

Argh... the cop said my dad stopped near the middle of the road. Argh... my slowed down for the cop but not sure why he did that. I've always pulled to the right but then again I've never been pulled over by a cop.

Anyone know how many points the 'emergency' vehicle charge is? If I was in the car with him I would be harping him on speed and commenting to motion to the sided and such as I've always had a 'who knows, that fire/ambulance/police could one day be for me and every second counts for them' so I always make to the side so they can can safely make it to thier destination. 

He is thinking of asking his insurance broker on advice to the charges. I asked him why to ask the insurance guys and he said htey're a broker and not the insurance company which I'm not sure about that so I'm asking here if they are the same. He's been with the company a long time and they treated him well 'like a son' as he said. My understanding is if you talk with the insurance company it'll only get worst.

Argh.... bugs me he got the tickets but the pull over fo rthe 'emergency vehicle' has me wondering what happened as he did not pull over as per the Drivers Handbook and AFAIK he is aware when driving if lights are flashing and sirens are wailing. I'm just not sure if the cop flashed the lights last min after tailing for the first charge or what.


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## AquaNekoMobile (Feb 26, 2010)

Dad's asking about Ex-Copper. Anyone with hired experience with them? My only experience with them is only over the phone once when I had an expired drivers licence in the wallet but DID have the renewed on at home mailed to me (forgot to put into wallet a few days after recieving it). Thankfully the Ex-Copper person gave me a free tip over the phone which made a significant reduction to the charge when I provided proof I had my new licence.


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## segrig (May 10, 2011)

I have some experience, but I'm far from being an expert.
I hired x-copper once for a speeding ticket I got on the 401. I was speeding (so was everyone else), they stopped me, I got a ticket. 

Generally if you fight a ticket or plead guilty with a reasonable explanation a judge or justice of the peace will reduce or excuse a ticket for you. Often times they will reduce the fine or demerit points or both. Also, if you take a ticket to court and the cop doesn't show up the charge is dropped. 

What a company like X-copper generally does is assess your situation and give you their opinion on whether they can help. They show up to court with you or on your behalf to fight the ticket. First they generally hope the cop doesn't show up. Then they use their experience as "ex cops" to do whatever they can to get your ticket reduced or excused. (which I suspect in some cases may just end at showing up and asking the judge to reduce the fine)

My experience was good for a couple reasons. I know I was guilty but my fine was reduced and i didn't get an demerit points. I didn't have to do anything other than pay them, they did all the work which was especially nice since I got the ticket close to Ottawa and didn't want to drive out there just to go to court. They also probably know the things *not* to say which is probably more important than knowing what to say.

You have to remember that these people are not lawyers and provide a fraction of "services" and "knowledge" a lawyer can provide... Albeit at a fraction of the price.

In summation, they aren't the best option for every situation but they are a useful company and it can't hurt to call them and find out if they think they can help.
\end rant.

Also, it's 4am and I'm on my iPhone...so if I just ranted my way off topic and didn't answer your question....oh well.

Segrig


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

Ex-Coppers usually try to reduce points, but $$$ fine you will pay

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## hojimoe (Mar 7, 2008)

I believe the second ticket is "failing to yield on right of way" which is another 3 points.


IMHO these two charges are not going to be cheap, or easy to fight off. 

The patrol car does not need a camera to "prove" your dad ran a red, or failed to pull over. Word of mouth is enough, just the same with watching you go straight or turn when you're not supposed to.

It sucks, yes, but your dad should probably just be very careful for the next 7 years.


Also, an insurance Broker is not the insurance company. They sell policies on behalf of several companies they deal with. They generally find the best price from a group of companies for the same quote details. 

I call my broker all the time with questions, I called him instead of calling my insurance company when my girlfriends neighbour backed into the front corner of my PARKED car last year....they prep it up and fax to the insurance company, and that ensures all the details are CORRECT, insurance companies are notorious for entering details wrong


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