# drinking water from the tap



## taillight (May 19, 2009)

I just tested my drinking water from the tap with my fish test strips. i have no chlorine, PH is 7.4 no nitrates or nitrite, but i have .05 level of amonia. on the test strip this amonia level shows a stressed level to the fish. so everytime i do a water change i'm adding a ton of amonia to my tank? when i add new water do i put a strain on the benificial bacteria to convert this extra amonia to nitrite ? this can't be good, should i be using a filter or bottled water? or at the least ammo loc?
what is the water doing to me ?


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## bae (May 11, 2007)

Don't panic. Tap water in Toronto and most other municipalities is treated with chloramine to disinfect it. Chloramine breaks down into chlorine, which kills bacteria and evaporates, and ammonia. This quantity of ammonia is completely harmless to people. You get more than this in food. Your plants and/or biofilter will rapidly take care of the ammonia, or you can use a water conditioner that will bind with the ammonia if you like.

Try testing the aquarium water before a water change, immediately after, and half an hour after to decide whether you need to do something about the ammonia. You might also test your tap water after it has run for a while, to see if it's just the water that's sitting around in the pipes for hours that shows this ammonia content.

Let us know what you find out.


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

If you don't already, you may want to either filter your water for aquarium use, or use a water treatment (Prime, Amquel, etc.) to dechlorinate/aminate your water prior to adding it to your tank.


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## Shattered (Feb 13, 2008)

bae said:


> Try testing the aquarium water before a water change, immediately after, and half an hour after to decide whether you need to do something about the ammonia. You might also test your tap water after it has run for a while, to see if it's just the water that's sitting around in the pipes for hours that shows this ammonia content.


Those are some good points, I would be interested to see the results of those test.

I second Amec's recommendation; Along with removing Ammonia, most of them will also bind heavy metals and provide other benefits like slime coats (sp?). It's more of an added insurance policy to a water change.


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## characinfan (Dec 24, 2008)

And/or let the water sit for a good while (24 hrs) to gas off before using it -- works best if it's circulating/bubbling during the wait.


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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

Actaully, you need to double check your reading. 0.05 levels of ammonia doesn't sound too bad. Not sure why you said it's at the stressful level.
So it really depends ... and I do hesitate to post the following ...
If it's not at 0.05 and is really at the stressful level, then, you are screwed.
There is only a few reason that could happen with water that comes strait out of tap with that kind of chemistry.
A) well come to Walkerton water, your local water municipality are screwing around and not paying attention to the water they release into the pipe. Have them check your tab water by calling them and tell them that you want them to check your tab water. (it's free)
B) the pipe leading to your house broke and is leaking, tree roots are probably sucking up all the chlorine/chloramine, a bit of run off water from the street is leeching into your drinking pipe.
C) you have super old water pipe and live at the very far end of the pipe where chorine/chloramine never reaches (it's happen before). They can't do much about it because they need add a big sump tank/water tower some where to fix this problem. (This require diggin up the neighborhod that may not have been approved yet or is schedule for repair in 2015 or something) Adding more chorine/chloramine into the pipe is not an option without poision the people who live closer to the top end of the water pipe.

D) (there is always possibility D or even E) - is that water already filtered? Like do you have an filter that filters the entire house? If so, it just needs cleaning. The pipe is probably infested with bacteria. All water filtered equipment needs cleaning every 1/2 or 1 year with a 5% bleach solution. Once done, you need to run it for while to flush all the bleach out. You don't want to drink the stuff.
And E) are you using well water?

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## Byronicle (Apr 18, 2009)

i dechlorinate my water with stuff you an get at a fish store and i never had a problem. I just add the water, than the dechlorinator, all 6 of my tanks are still good. saves time doing the whole bucket thing, leaving it for a few days...


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## mointhehouse128 (Feb 7, 2009)

Byronicle said:


> i dechlorinate my water with stuff you an get at a fish store and i never had a problem. I just add the water, than the dechlorinator, all 6 of my tanks are still good. saves time doing the whole bucket thing, leaving it for a few days...


I do the same  It works fine for me.


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## bae (May 11, 2007)

Better to put the dechlorinator in the tank before you add the new water.


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## j2quinn (Nov 23, 2006)

no one here utilizes RO/DI? in the long run it is much cheaper than purchasing "dechlorinators". I use to work for MOE; chlorination and chloramination are only some of the things you need to worry about in our drinking water. unfortunately, coagulation/floc chemicals are in the water as well as pharmaceuticals/endocrine disruptors. However, to humans most are harmless, but if you keep fish/amphibians it has been proven that these chemicals/macromolecules can have a serious impact.


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## taillight (May 19, 2009)

it is not chlorine in my tap water as it is 0 in my tank and in my tap water. it is the amonia, it is at .05 which on my test strips says "stressed" this comes right from my tap.


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Prime and many other products also neutralize ammonia.


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## KhuliLoachFan (Mar 8, 2008)

How is buying a $200 RO/DI unit and $80 worth of filters every few months cheaper than buying dechlorinator at $29 a gallon, that lasts mosts hobbyists months and months?

W


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## j2quinn (Nov 23, 2006)

Initial cost of $200 or less is correct. however, replacement filters do not cost $80 (shop around. ie canadian tire sells majority of the filters). Furthermore, you do not replace filters every few months. you replace when either exhausted or at an estimated life span which is around 4 to 6 months on a micron filter or GAC. Membranes can last for 1 to 2 years if kept properly. Moreover, you produce quite a lot of water. Water, in theory, containing no contaminants. Long term, you save a lot.


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## KhuliLoachFan (Mar 8, 2008)

Good to know! I didn't know Canadian Tire sold filters for RO/DI units.

What unit do you recommend, and where to get it?

W


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## j2quinn (Nov 23, 2006)

aquafx makes some low cost RO/DIs (google aquafx, jlaquatics sell them i believe). however, you want to buy one that is quite generic so you can replace with most filters. 1 micron filters at canadian tire at $7.99 cheaper as you increase micron size. 1 micron is recommended for all filters. GACS are somewhat expensive but depends on what you are trying to remove. somewhere around 20 to 40 bucks. RO membranes you can get almost anywhere now (THFs) price depends on GPD (gallons per day). DI (deionizing resin) can add up, but shouldn't need to use a lot as the RO is removing most chemicals. in the long run, you have cleaner water and more of it. 

On another note, I would love to know what prime and other products use to remove ammonia/chloramine.


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

PM BWI about RO/DI systems - his units are cheap and work just as well as any else. I"ve been using one for a year for my 28g system, and it works great, and haven't had to replace anything yet


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## KhuliLoachFan (Mar 8, 2008)

As far as I know all commercially available dechlorinators use at least Sodium Thiosulfate, as a major part, and other compounds, as a minor part.

Sodium Thiosulfate will react with all Chlorine, but not Chloramine. However most products these days, do both Chlorine and Chloramine. I am unable to find out what compound is used to break the Chlorine+Ammonia bond, and I would assume a second compound is used to bind the free ammonia created by the Chloramine breakdown, so that would be Sodium Thiosulfate, and two other things.

Most of my dechlorinators include some other general "fish tonic" compounds, to make your fish hopefully happier, including agents to improve the fish's built in ability to regenerate its slime coat.

W


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## KhuliLoachFan (Mar 8, 2008)

Anyone want a lifetime supply of Sodium Thiosulphate (crystal) for $65?

http://www.wchemical.com/SODIUM-THIOSULFATE-P51C13.aspx

W


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## sillygyrl8 (Jul 19, 2009)

I'm in Toronto and what I just do is fill up buckets of water and let it sit for a couple of days before using that water for a water change - no problems in the 2 years.

I bought (and won) API/Wardley/Aquasafe/etc chemicals and i haven't had a need to use that unless I start a new tank.

btw, what's a RO/DI system?


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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

sillygyrl8 said:


> I'm in Toronto and what I just do is fill up buckets of water and let it sit for a couple of days before using that water for a water change - no problems in the 2 years.
> 
> I bought (and won) API/Wardley/Aquasafe/etc chemicals and i haven't had a need to use that unless I start a new tank.
> 
> btw, what's a RO/DI system?


Have you ever tested your water before you do you water change? I live pretty close the treatment plant and I can tell you that after 5 days, I still detect a very small trace of chloramine in the water.

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## PPulcher (Nov 17, 2006)

j2quinn said:


> On another note, I would love to know what prime and other products use to remove ammonia/chloramine.


There is a pretty good list of the common water conditioners here: http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/rev-cond.htm

According to that site, Prime has "complexed hydrosulfite salts" (hence the sulfur smell). Seachem also has a page about the product here and how Prima, and in general dechlorinators work: http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Prime.html

As I understand it, aging your water isn't going to help much with removing chloramine. It's much more stable than chlorine alone.


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## bae (May 11, 2007)

j2quinn said:


> On another note, I would love to know what prime and other products use to remove ammonia/chloramine.


ClorAm-X is HOCH2SO3Na. Here's a page with technical info: http://www.reed-mariculture.com/cloram-x/techdoc.asp. I think whoever typed up the formulas may have made some copying errors, however. Other products may use other compounds.

Btw, some of these de-chloraminators may give false positives for ammonia with some test kits. The ClorAm-X page says it will do so with kits that use the Nessler test.


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## bae (May 11, 2007)

sillygyrl8 said:


> I'm in Toronto and what I just do is fill up buckets of water and let it sit for a couple of days before using that water for a water change - no problems in the 2 years.


You can get away with using water right out of the tap especially for smaller percent water changes in Toronto, which doesn't chloraminate very heavily compared to some municipalities. IIRC, they use 1ppm of chlorine at the intakes to prevent zebra mussels from clogging the pipes, then 1ppm equivalent at the mains to keep the water safe to your tap. Chloramine has the virtue (from a public health standpoint) that it doesn't dissipate rapidly like chlorine does. You may find that the water in your buckets still has most of its chloramine after several days.

Some US municipalities use 4 or 5 times more chloramine than Toronto does.

When you add untreated water to your tank, the chloramine reacts with any organic matter, so if you have a lot of plants, mulm and other stuff in there, that will consume most of it right off. Your fishes' gills and slime coat are also organic matter, and will be attacked by the chloramine. You wouldn't expect to see this sort of damage right off, but it certainly doesn't do the fish any good.

Personally, I have lots of plants (mostly weeds) in all my tanks, so I don't worry about ammonia or biofilters. I use sodium thiosulfate with water changes to neutralize the chlorine released from the chloramine. It may not be strictly necessary the way I keep my tanks, but why add extra stress? Also, the water department may occasionally add higher levels of chloramine if they detect higher levels of organics or bacteria in the intake water, so better safe than sorry.


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## j2quinn (Nov 23, 2006)

KhuliLoachFan said:


> As far as I know all commercially available dechlorinators use at least Sodium Thiosulfate, as a major part, and other compounds, as a minor part.
> 
> Sodium Thiosulfate will react with all Chlorine, but not Chloramine. However most products these days, do both Chlorine and Chloramine. I am unable to find out what compound is used to break the Chlorine+Ammonia bond, and I would assume a second compound is used to bind the free ammonia created by the Chloramine breakdown, so that would be Sodium Thiosulfate, and two other things.
> 
> ...


sodium thiosulfate, sodium hydroxymethanesulphonate, and sodium hydroxymethane sulfinic acid seem to be common dechlorinators.

chlorides are good leaving group. essentially a condensation reaction occurs where the amine (NH2) and the hydroxy (OH) readily react to form a water molecule. similar reaction takes place with amino acids to polymerize into proteins.


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