# Noob needs a mentor (dead shrimp, murderous snail)



## Salee (Oct 2, 2014)

Hi all, I just can't seem to get it right. My current issue is that 3 tiny cherry shrimp died in their first night. Advice appreciated.

I have a 10 gallon tank which I started over 2 months ago with new everything (gravel, plants, probiotic water drops, whisper filter for 10-20g, no heater as it goes from 75-82 on it's own). I plan to upgrade to a 20 long by Feb. I do 10% water changes 1-2/wk with filtered tap water and a few bacteria drops.

10 days in I got just one snail, a golden mystery snail from petsmart. It seemed happy. So I let my son persuade me to get another, bigger and black.

After another week the parameters were looking decent IMO (nitrate 0-20, nitrite 0-0.5, ph 6.0-6.5, ammonia 0.5) so I brought home 3 cardinal tetras. 2 looked a little pale, 1 bright, adventurous and sprightly. I put the bag in with the edges turned down for a couple of hours, slowly trickled tank water into the bag, then let them swim out.

While the bag was in, the snails started to go nuts, climbing up the side and dropping down over and over, and always right next to the bag.

By morning the 2 pale cardinals were floundering and died as I watched. I had to fish them out very fast because the snails were racing in.

Cardinal 3 was still bright and sprightly, and my husband was home that day so he kept an eye on things. I called him to pick me up from the pet store where I had just bought 3 healthy looking zebra danios to soften the blow when I told my son. Hubby checked and Cardinal 3 was still bright and chipper and swimming around just fine. When we walked in 15 minutes later, cardinal 3 was in a corner next to the filter, under the golden snail, cleanly severed in half and the rest was gone, eaten. I'm 100% sure it was alive when the snail dropped down on it. 

I then looked up apple snails, and the shell angle told me this one was a Cana, which can be carnivorous in their first 6 months?! Snails were banished to the old betta tank with new, well-rinsed rainbow substrate but all the water, decoration and 1 plant were from the almost-cycled tank. I fed them algae pellets and those things can eat. After a month they both suddenly died one day. I suspect the rainbow substrate is utter crap, it smells like chemicals and it wouldn't surprise me if there was copper in the red. I was regretful but not sad, I'm no longer a snail fan. Still, I certainly didn't want to kill them.

The Danios have been chipper and healthy for 6 weeks now and the water parameters are down to nothing, so I went to big Al's and got 3 tiny cherry shrimp. I don't want to crowd the tank but would like a bit more interest... Long story short, they ran out of the bag easily, didn't move very fast once they hit the gravel, danios didn't even notice them, but this morning the shrimp are dead. Well one is, 2 I can't find but they're tiny and the same colour as the stones! There's still no evidence of the danios having noticed them.

What have I done wrong for those shrimp to not survive? I think I need a mentor before I decide to add anything!


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## Kimchi24 (Mar 22, 2013)

Salee said:


> Hi all, I just can't seem to get it right. My current issue is that 3 tiny cherry shrimp died in their first night. Advice appreciated.
> 
> I have a 10 gallon tank which I started over 2 months ago with new everything (gravel, plants, probiotic water drops, whisper filter for 10-20g, no heater as it goes from 75-82 on it's own). I plan to upgrade to a 20 long by Feb. I do 10% water changes 1-2/wk with filtered tap water and a few bacteria drops.
> 
> ...


Ok, so starting from the beginning, you are far more informed than any newbie in the hobby because you actually know about the cycle. Next is that your issues all have possible reasons. In terms of your cardinals, I have had them before and they are pretty sensitive. They die off very easily and even with a little trace of nitrate and nitrite, they can die. Also they are schooling fish and will feel stressed if they are not in a group of 6. That being said... by how you explained it, it seemed as if you poured the mix of your water and the store water. NEVER DO THIS. I know you want to let them swim in to ease stress but it is safer in the long run to net them out and place them into your tank rather than have possibly diseased water enter your tank. Also (and i know this is not possible for everyone) but quarantining is your best friend. Especially if you have an established tank.

For your shrimp, it could be that they were attacked by your danios. Any fish with the exception of ottos (generally) will attack and try to eat the yummy cherry shrimps. It is just how it is.

hope this helps!


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## Salee (Oct 2, 2014)

Thanks for your response. Perhaps I'm not cursed- I do wish new additions would be more predictable though. It definitely takes a lot of thought and research to run a tank.

It seems so easy to buy sickly fish. That's why I ended up with the danios, I had already seen them in the store a week earlier and they were still looking very healthy. I ended up going back for the remaining 2 so I now have 5 and they look good.

The poor cardinals were doomed from the start, except the last one which was very unlucky. I didn't actually pour the bag water in, I let them swim out of a corner and then removed the full bag. I'll net any future additions though, thank you for clearing that up.

I did however accidentally pour in all the water from the shrimp bag :/ 

In better news, there's one bright looking shrimp in the tank today, out of 3. I lost the dead one (left it in, now it's gone) and the third is MIA, but this alive one looks bigger and brighter that I remembered. Maybe because it was standing on the dark wood. 

I plan to just keep up the small water changes and keep my fingers crossed that I haven't done too much damage this weekend.


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## Salee (Oct 2, 2014)

One more q- I have a 2.5gal tank, is that too small for quarantine? And how long do you quarantine for? Thanks!


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

It depends what fish you need to QT. One or two small fish would be ok in a 2.5 for a month or so.. you should give it a month to be sure they don't have Ich or something else. If you buy several fish, it's not big enough. A 5G would do better.

Shrimp don't really need QT, as they almost never carry disease or parasites. I've seen a few shrimp infected with horsehair worms, which are nasty things, but if they have that, you'd see it in the store tank, very likely. And it's not at all common. In fact, I have never seen it here or heard of it here, only in the US.

Generally, cherry shrimp are pretty hardy, but sometimes you will lose one. They certainly eat anything dead they find, they are, like snails, scavengers.

Sorry to hear about the snail and the fish issue. It is a shame it's not a Mystery snail or one of the Nerites. They are not dangerous in any way, come in some lovely colours and have some interesting behaviours. Mystery snails don't lay eggs under water.. they lay above water, so you need not have baby snails if you don't want them. Fascinating for youngsters to see though.

Nerites lay underwater, but the eggs need marine conditions to hatch, so they just slowly melt away in a fresh water tank. But they may lay on any surface. You can scrape them off glass if they happen to lay some there. They have some lovely shell patterns, like Zebras, Tire Track and Thorny [ or Horned]. The last one is very small, really cute.

They all do a nice job of cleaning up any algae, left over fish food, etc. Clean up crew.. and as with shrimp, if they find something dead, they will eat it. But they are not predatory at all, so fish are not in any danger from any of these.


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## Salee (Oct 2, 2014)

Thanks Fishfur!

I think I might have lost that last shrimp, not seen for 4+ days. If it's the Danios they're so casual about it!

Is there somewhere I can get some more mature cherry shrimp? They were all tiny at BA, and I haven't seen them anywhere else. Or is there another kind of bottom feeder other than snail that would be ok in 10 gal? I just can't stomach a snail yet.


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

Usually small shrimp survive shipping better, so usually they are small in the stores. But not always. Might try Shrimpfever or Shrimpwiki though. Als often has cherries in, at least the one close to me, on Dundas St. in Mississauga.

There are a few bottom feeders, but few small enough for a 10G. Pygmy cories would work though, you could have six or so, they need their own kind to be content. Very cute and don't spend all their time on the bottom either.


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## Aqualegal (Oct 19, 2014)

I have only seen my shrimp at night. From what I know, or thought (correct me if I'm wrong) shrimp are sensitive to the light. 
If I want to do a head count I do a small feeding, turn the lights out and return 10 min later. Give that a try before being discouraged.


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## Atom (Sep 17, 2014)

I'm sure different danios may behave differently, but I don't think I've seen any danios with a cherry shrimp in its mouth in my tank. Sometimes they'll peck or chase them while the shrimp are moving around the tank, but the shrimp are quick to hide in thick moss and the chase is quickly over after that.

Maybe get a clump of java moss as a refuge for the shrimp if you don't already have some. I have two small pieces of moss on mesh too, but those aren't thick enough to hide any shrimp and, as a result, the shrimp prefer to hang out in the clumpy/uncarpeted moss.

Good luck with your shrimp!  If you manage to find anywhere else to find shrimp let me know. I tried Big Al's Vaughan because they had them on sale, but they were sold out way too quick.


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

Well,all I can say to that is, I see my shrimp all day long, every day, every species, with the exception of the Vampires who are a bit shy. But even they are visible 90% of the time, they'd just not sitting out in plain sight all day long.

They do react to light, everything in the tank jumps when the lights go on each morning. I have the lights set to turn on well past dawn though, to try to make having the lights come on a bit less sudden. But they don't all run and hide.. there's just a sudden, short swirl of activity.


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## Salee (Oct 2, 2014)

Thanks everyone! Well there must have been some survivors because I got home from vacation and 2 tiny shrimp babies were in my filter (along with a bunch of baby snails :/) I took that as a good sign and added 6 more cherry shrimp last week (big Al's Kennedy on sale). They immediately disappeared except 2 very bold ones that swim around like fish. I still have no idea where they all hide.

My Danios are getting a bit nippy though, all of a sudden, so I'm hoping to get the 20G Long soon. I assume I'll find those shrimpies when I do the transfer!

Is there a cheap lid solution until I can afford a nice LED lid?


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