# soft water



## sicnarf (Jan 28, 2009)

can someone tell me how to keep my water soft, I know I could but some water softners from the pet stores, but is there any other better way of doing this.


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

Why do you need to make your water softer? Most fish nowadays are bred captively anyway, and will adapt to a wide variety of water conditions.


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## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

the easiest way to do it is to use a powdered buffer. It's also the most expensive in the long run.

Depending on what you want, something like Seachem Acid buffer will work for you.

Other methods include mixing 50/50 with R/O water, or just using R/O remineralized to the desired hardness, or doing the above with distilled water.

You can prefilter the water through peat in a seperate container. 

You can order in soft water from a verified source, ie, bottled water in 5 gal jugs that you've confirmed has the desired properties (all water delivery companies, ie, culligan, will give you a detailed pH/TDS/fluoride/salt/etc readout upon request.


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## bae (May 11, 2007)

AquariAM said:


> the easiest way to do it is to use a powdered buffer. It's also the most expensive in the long run.
> 
> Depending on what you want, something like Seachem Acid buffer will work for you.


Buffers do not soften water. They only modify pH. While hard water is often alkaline, the two properties are orthogonal -- it's entirely possible to have soft alkaline water or hard acid water. Such combinations are found in nature.


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## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

(buzzer sound)

acid buffer, as an example, literally precipitates calcium out of water, making the water softer.

It reduces hardness and pH and then buffers with a phosphate. It makes your water acid and soft, then buffers to lock it in.

Seachem makes some freakin amazing stuff. . It should be called water modifier rather than buffer but whatever..

_I know you can have hard acid and soft alkaline in nature. _


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## bae (May 11, 2007)

Well, they claim it softens water, but they don't tell you how much starting from what level of hardness. Phosphates will cause precipitation of calcium phosphate, but just how significant is it with water that is already relatively soft, like Toronto tap water (Lake Ontario)?

Often it isn't hardness (Ca/Mg level) that's a problem, but conductivity, i.e. amount of dissolved ionic materials. Buffers will increase conductivity, so may not be the answer when 'soft' water is wanted.

Have you used this product? How much does it reduce hardness for our water? Is the residual phosphate a problem? Phosphate can really promote algae.

Btw, I agree with Darkblade. It's very seldom necessary to soften our water even for breeding softwater species, and that only for the time from the eggs are laid until they hatch, if at all.


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## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

Have you used this product?

Nope. I've used the tang and malawi buffers though and they pin the pH and kH exactly where they say they will with Toronto water so I assume the acid would work similarly.

How much does it reduce hardness for our water? 

No date  

Is the residual phosphate a problem? 

Probably

Phosphate can really promote algae. 

this is my thought. The products I have used in the seachem line are carbonate buffer only, however, for obvious reasons you can't use that in this kind of product.


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## bae (May 11, 2007)

I certainly don't doubt that Seachem can make and sell buffers to peg pH. I'm just doubtful that their phosphate buffer could have a significant effect in lowering hardness in Toronto tap water which isn't very hard to begin with. In much harder water, it might be effective, but the web page has no data. 

Btw, there's nothing to making a carbonate buffer. Baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) alone will peg pH at 8.3. If you want it higher, you have to use some sodium carbonate, which you can get as a pH raising additive for swimming pools. IIRC, the limit for this is 11 or so.
I have no idea whether the swimming pool stuff won't poison your fish due to additives. I use it for dyeing fabric with fiber-reactive dyes, and I breed and raise my Lake Tanganyika and Lake Malawi cichlids in plain Toronto tap water, just like my South American and SE Asian fish.

N.B. You can soften water by boiling it, because calcium carbonate is less soluble in hot water. But again, this isn't terribly useful unless you've got really hard water.


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## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

bae said:


> I certainly don't doubt that Seachem can make and sell buffers to peg pH. I'm just doubtful that their phosphate buffer could have a significant effect in lowering hardness in Toronto tap water which isn't very hard to begin with. In much harder water, it might be effective, but the web page has no data.
> 
> Btw, there's nothing to making a carbonate buffer. Baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) alone will peg pH at 8.3. If you want it higher, you have to use some sodium carbonate, which you can get as a pH raising additive for swimming pools. IIRC, the limit for this is 11 or so.
> I have no idea whether the swimming pool stuff won't poison your fish due to additives. I use it for dyeing fabric with fiber-reactive dyes, and I breed and raise my Lake Tanganyika and Lake Malawi cichlids in plain Toronto tap water, just like my South American and SE Asian fish.
> ...


Once you coagulate the calcium carbonate in boiling water how do you then seperate that water?

How would you go about boiling 15 gallons of water once a week?


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## bae (May 11, 2007)

AquariAM said:


> Once you coagulate the calcium carbonate in boiling water how do you then seperate that water?
> 
> How would you go about boiling 15 gallons of water once a week?


The calcium usually precipitates onto surfaces as 'scale'.

I didn't say this was practical in this context, y'know, but at one time, in the Age of Steam, water for boilers in hard water areas was pre-boiled and cooled so the scale would precipitate in a more accessible location.


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## Darkside (Sep 14, 2009)

An RO/DI unit is probably the easiest way to procure a constant supply of soft water.


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