# Different ways to cycle?



## Atom (Sep 17, 2014)

Hi everyone,

I just recently got a tank from someone on this forum (thanks!) and I've been reading up on how to get started by cycling a tank. The issue is that there's so much info out there I'm not sure where to begin  It seems like there're a few different ways to cycle a tank and I'm not sure which would work best for my situation.

Currently, some supplies I have are:
-heater
-filter
-air stone + tubing
-Nutrafin cycle (is this any good or should I return it?)
-access to nearby ponds with plants (duckweed etc.) and algae
-access to used aquarium bacteria material

I may be forgetting something in there, but the one thing I don't have is ammonia. Would it be easier to cycle using pond material/plants (silent cycle), using fish flakes as a form of ammonia, using the Nutrafin cycle, or does anyone have another suggestion? 

I'm just a bit confused when it comes to cycling without bottled ammonia. Thanks if anyone can shed any light on this!


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## Kimchi24 (Mar 22, 2013)

Atom said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I just recently got a tank from someone on this forum (thanks!) and I've been reading up on how to get started by cycling a tank. The issue is that there's so much info out there I'm not sure where to begin  It seems like there're a few different ways to cycle a tank and I'm not sure which would work best for my situation.
> 
> ...


OK, finished my cycle a couple weeks ago and let me tell you, dont use fish food. It is messy and makes the whole room smell bad. Plus it is hard to maintain proper ammonia levels. My ammonia NEVER went down, even if i had a TONNE of nitrates. I removed the food and let the remaining ammonia be cycled. That's how I knew it was ready. If not for that, I would have let it go for another month. I highly regret using fish food cause it left me more confused than when i started. I got strange readings and it was never stable. At one point i had levels of ammonia, nitrate and nitrite all at the same time.

That being said, I have tried nutrafin cycle before and it was useless. Never worked. I have also tried Tetra safestart. This was back when i first started and had no idea about testing water. BUT, it did seem to work. The thing is I lost several fish from it. Therefore i dont trust it. Recently, I have tried Stability by seachem. It is bacteria you have to constantly put in. It says it works in a week but ive tried it on two tanks. both of which showed nitrite after 2 weeks. It took about 2 months to cycle with stability. And reading on no bacteria based cycling, a normal cycle should be 2-3 months. So really, this stuff was useless to me too. I highly suggest doing everything I didnt do. Buy a test kit. Buy ammonia. Do it the old fashioned way.

Also, If you are going to put plants, dont put too many. Since you are doing a fishless cycle, plants arent needed anywho. Besides, they compete for some ammonia. If anything, add some floaters and thats about it. The main reason I say this is because the beneficial bacteria HATES bright light. They strive in the dark. Keep you tank lights off, raise the heat to 80-84F and let the bubbler go nuts. Check the water parameters twice daily, I did mine at the morning and before bed, 12 hours apart so you can see changes in ammonia levels and such.

You do have some access to BB from another tank but i suggest staying away from it. Unless it is your tank, just do your cycle by itself. you dont want to introduce anything bad. Even in my 46 gallon, i cycled it and added some fish. I'm not going to be seeding my 135 gallon because i dont want to possibly contract anything from my 46 gallon. Why am i so paranoid? Two words: Camallanus Worms. Had this pest kill off a LOT of my stock and i never want to experience that again. It is worth doing the cycle on your own.

If you have any questions about my setup and how you should avoid everything I did, juts PM me haha


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## Atom (Sep 17, 2014)

Whoa thanks for the detailed reply! It's nice to hear from someone who's already been there before and knows the outcome lol.

I guess I'll have to find ammonia then  I'll have a look around at the hardware stores nearby, but if I can't find it what alternative options to starting a tank do I have? Does it have to be a fish in cycle at that point?


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## Kimchi24 (Mar 22, 2013)

Atom said:


> Whoa thanks for the detailed reply! It's nice to hear from someone who's already been there before and knows the outcome lol.
> 
> I guess I'll have to find ammonia then  I'll have a look around at the hardware stores nearby, but if I can't find it what alternative options to starting a tank do I have? Does it have to be a fish in cycle at that point?


From what I am told, Goldex from Walmart is safe to use. I wouldn't use fish in because you add in 2 new factors. water changes and inconsistency. In order to keep the fish alive, constant water changes are needed and that creates a lot of inconsistent level of ammonia which can hinder the cycle. Go for ammonia or go for the food. The food has a lot of cons but far less than fish in. Plus, it doesn't seem too ethical for fish in.


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## Atom (Sep 17, 2014)

Yeah I wanted to avoid keeping fish in while cycling because I've heard that it can be stressful for them.

I'll keep an eye out for that brand of ammonia then thanks for the tip! Might be able to update it here as the process goes on


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## deepblue3 (Jan 11, 2014)

*Filter Media*

If you have access to established filter media, I personally use this method all the time. It works for me.


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## Atom (Sep 17, 2014)

Would the filter media act as the bacteria (nitrate AND nitrite converting varieties) source? Would the bacteria be alive on dried equipment or does it have to be wet and fresh out of a tank? And I've heard that bacteria requires ammonia to "feed" it is this true? 

Sorry for the continuous questions D: it's my first time attempting this and I don't want to mess up if I can help it!


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## Kimchi24 (Mar 22, 2013)

Atom said:


> Would the filter media act as the bacteria (nitrate AND nitrite converting varieties) source? Would the bacteria be alive on dried equipment or does it have to be wet and fresh out of a tank? And I've heard that bacteria requires ammonia to "feed" it is this true?
> 
> Sorry for the continuous questions D: it's my first time attempting this and I don't want to mess up if I can help it!


You would have to get filter media submerged in water. they die if they are exposed to plain air. The filter media would act as a starter colony to build into a fully cycled tank. They do the nitrate and nitrite conversion. This usually end ups in a instacycle depending on how much media and your stock. But yes, they do require food (ammonia). if you go this route, get some ammonia or stock your tank right away. Just make sure of the origin of your BB


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## Atom (Sep 17, 2014)

Thanks so much for all the answers  I think I'm getting a better understanding, but we won't know for sure until I get started lol I'll keep you guys updated when I get things set up


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## woopderson (Feb 12, 2014)

Hey Atom,

I had the same issue as you finding pure ammonia. I ended up finding a brand called Golds at a Walmart Super Centre. That worked out pretty well! Get yourself some sort of dropper as well so you can accurately measure your dosing.


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## Atom (Sep 17, 2014)

Cool  that's the 2nd person to recommend that brand (I think?) so I'll take a look around for it.

If it's not too much trouble, do you remember what kind of dosing parameters you used (i.e., ml/gallon)? 

Thanks again to all who continue to contribute to this thread


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## woopderson (Feb 12, 2014)

The amount you dose can be calculated based on the capacity of your aquarium. This site has a handy calculator for ammonia. You enter your tank volume, desired PPM of ammonia, and % solution of ammonia (golds is 5% i think) and it tells you how many ML you need.

http://www.fishforums.net/aquarium-calculator.htm


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## Atom (Sep 17, 2014)

Ahh I probably should've googled  that's useful thank you!


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## woopderson (Feb 12, 2014)

No worries!


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

I have read planting the hell out of a tank to help the cycle.

Best thing is used media and ammonia to build it up more


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## Atom (Sep 17, 2014)

Really? I may get some plants along with used filter material then unless those two conflict with each other somehow. Thanks for the info


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## colio (Dec 8, 2012)

Atom said:


> Really? I may get some plants along with used filter material then unless those two conflict with each other somehow. Thanks for the info


If you want to swing by I can give you some filter mulm or maybe even media to seed your tank and some ammonia. You could be cycled in only a few days this way.

I live in postal code m6n 3a4

PM me if you want to come b. With the wife and kids away I will probably be home all weekend.


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## Atom (Sep 17, 2014)

That's a really generous offer! I really appreciate it, but I just got some stuff from a local aquarium today so for now I think I'm set. If I do need more material or if I mess up in the near future (hopefully I won't but who knows  ), I'll be sure to drop you a PM.

Thanks again for the offer!



colio said:


> If you want to swing by I can give you some filter mulm or maybe even media to seed your tank and some ammonia. You could be cycled in only a few days this way.
> 
> I live in postal code m6n 3a4
> 
> PM me if you want to come b. With the wife and kids away I will probably be home all weekend.


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## mr.wilson (Dec 29, 2012)

Shake the bottle of ammonia. If it bubbles/foams, it contains detergent. Some brands contain detergents even though they do not appear on the label.


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## Atom (Sep 17, 2014)

Yeah hard to find the ones that don't foam and I've heard that the ones with "surfactant" aren't good either :\



mr.wilson said:


> Shake the bottle of ammonia. If it bubbles/foams, it contains detergent. Some brands contain detergents even though they do not appear on the label.


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## mr.wilson (Dec 29, 2012)

If it was just a mild soap, I wouldn't be concerned, but even a small qty of strong chemicals can wreak havoc on delicate bacteria.


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## CanadaCorals.com (May 12, 2013)

Atom said:


> Yeah hard to find the ones that don't foam and I've heard that the ones with "surfactant" aren't good either :\


Old Country from Home Hardware (not Home Depot) is what we use to cycle a new system.

It is exactly 4% pure ammonia with nothing else added.

This is the calculation I used to get 5ppm of ammonia in our 1200g system.

1200G x 3.78L works out to be 4,536 Liters.

4,536L X 5mg/L (5 ppm) = 22,680 mg total.
4% ammonia solution works out to be 40 mg/L (40 ppm)
22,680L / 40 mg/L works out to be 567ml of a 4% solution to get 5 ppm of ammonia in our 1200g system.

We simply added 567ml of the Old Country ammonia and it worked perfectly!


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## Atom (Sep 17, 2014)

Super helpful especially with the calculations and pic  thanks for that!


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

with enough used media and plants, you can cycle in a single day. But it takes lots and usually only possible if you have your own fishroom to take bacteria from many source.


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## Atom (Sep 17, 2014)

The plants are for taking up nitrates right? I'm getting a fairly high ammonia reading still. Would plants lessen this or is it solely the bacteria's job to kick in and lower the ammonia?


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## Mykuhl (Apr 8, 2013)

Plants use nitrate and ammonia for their nitrogen needs. The faster they grow the more they use up. If your plants are not actively growing, you only have a few plants or you only have slow growers you will not have an effective silent cycle.


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## Atom (Sep 17, 2014)

Ahh ok got it thanks! So slower growers take up less ammonia/nitrates and the opposite goes for the faster growers. Bah I was hoping some duckweed and mosses would suffice D:


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

You've got it. Plants can use almost any form of ammonia, including nitrite, as well as nitrate. I've been experimenting with some Betta tanks, no filtration at all, no articial circulation at all, just one fish, one 2.5G tank and a fair plant load. So far no ammonia readings at all, and only low nitrates. Betta tanks were never cycled, and the results have been a bit surprising to me so far. About two weeks into the experiment at this point, and time will tell how far I can go before I do a water change. Before starting this, I did WCs 2x weekly, but none since I began. Only topups.

Actually, duckweed is probably THE top notch nitrate sucker. In fact, if it is growing in water with less than necessary levels of nitrate, the roots will extend, sometimes dramatically, trying to find more. In nitrate poor conditions, you can end up with duckweed having such long roots it looks rather different from normal duckweed. Lemna minor is the tiny leaf form, L. major is the large, aka Giant duckweed. So far as I can tell, they're similar at nitrate sucking but L minor certainly grows the fastest of the two, so in a larger tank it would probably do a better job. Sadly, it's also much harder to get rid of later on if it becomes annoying. It sticks to everything it touches. So does L. major, but it's quite a bit larger compared to L. minor and is slightly easier to remove when you get tired of it, if only because its new daughter plants are not quite as tiny & hard to see as L. minor's are. All duckweeds like to stick under rim edges, you'll think you got them all and the next time you refill to the very top, they're back. Persistence is necessary if you find you are tired of duckweed.

Most floating plants are quite good nitrate users. Frogbit is quite good and quite attractive as well. Its dense but super fine roots can grow a foot long, and it reproduces via runners with baby plants at the ends. It does need enough light to grow decently. If it's showing dark streaky marks, it's VERY happy with the light; Azolla carolineana, [ a very pretty mini fern that can turn bright red with good light, though it's relatively hard to find. It's nearly as annoying as duckweed to get rid of, if you want to]; Floating water sprite, [ same plant as the rooted type, but when grown floating, it develops wide, flat, wavy edged leaves and a heavy, dense root mass ]. One plant can cover a 29G tank in just a a couple of months from a decent size starter. It reproduces via runners and via new baby plants that emerge from almost every leaf notch.

Roots of both frogbit and water sprite are great for fry and shy fish and shrimps. You can also get mini water lettuce. It's pretty, but if it's happy enough, may begin to grow normally and soon outgrow your space. When it's small it's great. Nobody seems to know why in some cases it stays small and in others small plants suddenly begin to grow large. Light levels might have something to do with it. I had some that stayed small more than a year but suddenly began to grow large after I replaced the lighting over them.

Mosses are generally slow growers, as are most ferns and anubias. But some fast growing stem plants, given a reasonable amount of light, will take a lot of nutrients out. Hygro difformis is just one that can grow very fast & quite tall as well, given enough food and light. Swords are also heavy feeders, so heavy that most of them need feeding via the substrate to really thrive and look their best.

Edit. note.. frogbit and water sprite roots can be trimmed back or thinned out, if they grow too long or thick. Won't hurt the plants.


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## Atom (Sep 17, 2014)

Thanks for all that information and suggestions for plants  I was actually looking for a replacement for the duckweed because it's starting to accumulate on my filter intake so I really appreciate those suggestions along with the background info.

I'll see if I can get any of those as a replacement soon. Thanks again!


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

I've got small frogbits if you need some. And I should have water sprite in a month or two, small ones, they're just sproutlets at this point though. I have a tiny bit of Azolla too, but there won't be enough to share or sell 'til next spring, I expect.


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## Atom (Sep 17, 2014)

Great, I'll shoot you a PM soon


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## Mykuhl (Apr 8, 2013)

The only problem with floating plants is that is can take over the whole surface of the water. You will likely have to give away or throw away a bunch every week or two. I used to have mini water lettuce and it grew so fast that I ended up throwing out a bunch every week or so. It got tiresome after a while so I got rid of it.


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## Atom (Sep 17, 2014)

Yeah I've started to notice it with the duckweed so I got rid of most of it early on....or so I thought  I still see a couple of pieces floating around on occasion and they seem alive and well. I guess I'll just leave them in to eventually soak up nitrates.

I've been looking into frogbit as an alternative though and I'm hoping that's not as messy.


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

No question, floaters can take over. I'm forever reducing the numbers in my frog tank, it's surprising how fast they grow given good light and food. And it's annoying at times. But they work so well at what they do, some of them are attractive in their own right, so I keep them. 

Though given any choice, I'd prefer not to have duckweed. It simply is too good at reproduction and is sneaky about sticking anywhere it touches, so that when you think you just tossed the last leaf, more appear as if from nowhere. Usually one or two get stuck under the filter weir, or under the rim or in corners. Some even get caught on plants lower down and eventually get loose and come up again. 

It's always a balancing act I think, between having plants do what we want them to, without having them take over and make more work.


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