# Kordon Ich Attack. Anybody use it ?



## Dax

Just bought a bottle but the reviews are all over the place. I don't mind trying it but if does more harm than good, I don't want to waste my time.

Plan to use it tonight so any advice/experience will be good.


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## sig

it is not mine

http://www.novalek.com/kordon/ich_attack/index.htm

COMPATIBILITIES AND TOXICITY
Kordon Ich-Attack as an organic herbal treatment is focused in its effectiveness in treating protozoan, fungal, and dinoflagellate infections. It may be an inhibitor, but is not an eliminator of infectious viruses, bacteria and multi-celled organisms. Ich-Attack is compatible with the other Kordon organic herbal products, namely Rid-Fungus® and Ich-Attack®. Ich-Attack can be used with all Kordon Water Conditioners such as the NovAquas, the AmQuels and Fish Protector™, all Kordon Water Clarifiers (Trans-Clear® and Sea-Clear®), and all AquaTru® Water Quality Test Kits.

Regarding the toxicity of Kordon Ich-Attack to fishes and aquatic invertebrates -- it is not toxic to them. It may be that fishes and aquatic invertebrates die during treatment but numerous repeated experiments at more than ten times dosages of Ich-Attack have shown that the causes of their deaths are not the Ich-Attack treatment, nor does it contribute to the causes of deaths. What has caused the deaths besides the infecting diseases, that are too far advanced to be cured by treatment, needs to be determined by the keeper.

Ich-Attack is safe for use in all kinds of aquariums and ornamental ponds, as well as on scaleless fishes (such as loaches, elephant noses, electric eels, knife fishes and catfishes), coral reef fishes, young fish and fry, reef aquariums, aquatic plants, aquatic invertebrates (such as snails, crustaceans, corals and sea anemones), amphibians and aquatic reptiles.

However, the success of this treatment (as with all effective treatments) is dependent upon starting treatment as soon as infections are anticipated or noted. It often can be late in the extent of infection when it is noted in fishes, which may be too late to save them. As an example, for some species of white spot disease (Ich), the infection usually starts unnoticed in the mouth, gills, and nostrils of the fish, only later appearing on the outside surface of the fish when it may be too late to save their lives by treatment.

Ich-Attack will not stain sealants, ornaments, plastic or living plants, and will not unduly affect the pH or permanently discolor the water. Ich-Attack does not affect beneficial nitrifying bacteria.

Regarding Marine Tangs (surgeon fishes, acanthurids): They are prone to have extensive infections that they bring in from the wild, and for which there is no known successful treatment when the infections are too far advanced. Always quarantine tangs before putting them with other fishes

Regarding Coral Reef Animals: Freshwater snails and shrimp, and the coral reef animals (shrimp, crabs, coral, anemones, etc.) are compatible with Kordon Ich-Attack. It can be that in setting up a new aquarium with fishes and coral and/or anemones, that with the fishes being infected and being treated, the coral and anemones will shrivel up, sometimes dying. The organic herbal treatment may cause an initial retraction of the coral and/or anemones, but will not be the cause of their dying. Deaths are going to be due to adverse aquarium conditions, and not due to the organic herbal treatment being used for the fishes.

For example, corals and anemones may be adversely affected by the intensity of the aquarium lighting, including in new aquariums. One of the key factors in coral bleaching on natural coral reefs is in excessive light, as well as in excessive water temperature, and other natural factors. If excessive lighting is used in marine aquariums, this can adversely affect corals. This may be immediately, or it may be over time.

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## Dax

*To put into DT or not, that is the question.*

The way I read it, "It should work, but things may still die and if they do it is not because of this product .. must have been something else." Doesn't provide a lot of confidence does it?

Everthing in the tank looks great except for one fish. If I put this stuff in and the inverts die, I will be really upset. If I do nothing and the fish doesn't make it, this will upset me too; this is my first fish. There really is only one way to find out so I'm going to use it. At least I can say I tried.

I'll let you know how it goes.


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## Tim

It *may* be an inhibitor, but* is not* an eliminator

erm that sounds pretty hokey to me. Let us know if it works.


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## Dax

Day 1 Added 50ml. Turned off skimmer and not running carbon.

So far, don't notice any change at all. The stuff is pretty dark green. Wonder how the water will look after an entire bottle


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## Dax

End of Day 1 Added another 30ml to get the 1.5x dosage effect.
Anemome is at half size but could be normal behaviour. Polyps look bigger than ever. No change in livestock.

Day 2 Added another 50 ml
Fish look marginally better. Anemone is at half size . All livestock acting normal. Feeding garlic soaked frozen shrimp.


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## Dax

Day 3 Another 50ml goes in. Water is much darker. No other noticeable effect. Can't say things are better or worse. I guess another day with no casualities is progress


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## Dax

*Confused and upset*

Day 4 Another dose. Tank water looks green. A lot more diatoms on the sand bed. Anemone is significantly smaller. Clowns that hosted with anemone for over a year are moving to rocks. The other fish are showing signs of Ich. The original fish that had the worst of it looks better though. WTH?

I wanted to go at least a week, but now I wonder if it's doing more harm than good.


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## sig

oh man.... . just do not give p on the tank. I personally will stop dosing and see what will happens. In case all fishes are gone, wait 3-4 months and you can put fishes again.
In this way, you will save corals at least

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## Dax

Me give up, never!!!
If the fish don't make it then the plan is exactly what you said. Problem is I don't know if the fish will die so I have to keep trying to save them. My only decision right now is the whether to stop dosing or not. Damn it! At least one fish looks better and nothing died, so maybe I'll go one more day.

BTW, I just added 9 more snails to the tank; couldn't resist the sale at SUM. I read up on it and snails are not affected by what is going on in the tank. If not for this problem there would have been 20 more snails.


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## Dax

*Day 5*

Looks like more spots on some of the fish. The original guy is going strong. Water is much darker. Maybe I'll dose a little higher and finish the bottle. Should be another 4 or 5 days. So far I'd say not to bother using this stuff. Might be good for freshwater but not much for saltwater. Hopefully I'm wrong.


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## Tim

how are you supposed to get rid of the green water?


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## Dax

Apparently it's supposed to fade after you stop dosing, but I think that just means it goes away with water changes.
If I know how things will end up I can be really patient, but waiting for an outcome that can go in either direction just kills me. Well a few more days and no more dosing. Back to skimming and a lot of water changes.


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## Dax

*Day 6 I'm done.*

Well I gave on the stuff. The fish don't look like there is any improvement and the tank looks crappy. Good news is that nothing died. I will probably wait till the weekend and then try to catch my fish. Yippe! 

My opinions on Kordon Ich Attack:
- Waste of time in Saltwater. May work on FW
- Makes the water dark, but goes away quickly once you turn on the skimmer
- Was "Reef Safe" but what's the point if it doesn't work

Conclusion:

If you have Marine Ich in a FOWLR or Reef, the ONLY way to get rid of it is to remove ALL fish and treat in QT for approx 6-8 weeks. Two proven options are using hyposalinity or a copper based treatment. If you leave even one fish in the tank, then you will always have the threat of an outbreak when fish are stressed or you add another one. NOW THAT SUCKS !!! 
Note: It is possible for fish to live with Ich, but think of it like living with a bomb; it may never go off, but do you really want to take that chance?


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## Tim

how long are you going to let your tank fallow?


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## Dax

8 weeks minimum. I believe the hyposalinity method takes 4 weeks, then another 4 to bring it back. Even with mediciation, to do things safely would take about the same time.
This will give me a good chance to get the water quality in the main tank in check and then add 1 fish at a time to figure out where my nitrate problems are coming from. Also, at the end, I will have a functioning QT ready to go and then I can buy more fish that can sit in there for a couple of months.

Lot of advantages to making the tank fallow but I still have to catch the fish. Not looking forward to it and hopefully I don't change my mind.


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