# Can you recommend a freshwater (cold) livebearer?



## YMS_1975 (Jan 6, 2013)

I'm looking for a freshwater fish that's : 

- A livebearer
- can survive in cold water (no heater required)


I want to use it as a feeder fish, so hopefully it's one that will reproduce fairly quickly. The only fish I came across was the "mosquito fish". Not sure if Big Al's would carry something like that (they're closed today due to Good Friday).

Anyways, asides from the mosquito fish, is there any other freshwater fish, that's a livebearer, that can survive without an aquarium heater???


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## Erratic-Fish-Finatic (Apr 23, 2012)

YMS_1975 said:


> I'm looking for a freshwater fish that's :
> 
> - A livebearer
> - can survive in cold water (no heater required)
> ...


Really depends on your room temperature, if it's 25 or up you should be alright. Swordtails and mollies are pretty good live bearing feeders.


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

guppies can do ok in colder water and breed like crazy. But you will want plants for the fry to hide in so they survive and you have to make sure the plants can be in colder water to.


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

Too bad you want livebearers. 

Rosy minnows would be perfect if you didn't mind egg layers. Rather attractive too, with the rosy colour variant. The wild colour is a greyish shade, but the rosy colour will breed true so long as no wild minnows are present. They're a schooling fish and actually look rather nice swimming around in their schools. 

Nice thing about them is that they are not egg scatterers. The males care for their eggs quite well and will chase the females away while they're caring for them. They don't eat their fry unless the adults are very, very hungry, and that's easily prevented. They spawn every couple of weeks, so they can provide a steady source of live food. The males actually secrete a fungus inhibitor in the tissue on their heads which they rub on the eggs to prevent them being ruined by fungal infections, which is pretty neat when you think about it. 

Very cheap to buy, though often not very healthy, since they are sold as feeders and thus, not cared for greatly. Can take temperatures down to 55 F. so no heating needed.


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## YMS_1975 (Jan 6, 2013)

*Here's the thing....*

I don't want to purchase yet another aquarium heater. My hobby has gotten a bit out of control. LOL.

I've got 4 aquarium heaters now, and all are being put to good use. That's why I want a freshwater fish that can survive in cold temps. I will have to record the temperature to give you an accurate idea of just how cold it is. But I will do that and post the results here so that maybe you guys can give me a good recommendation. 

As for the livebearer thing; I just want to put the fish in my 75 gallon tank and not have to worry about a separate fry tank/container. I'm returning to the fishkeeping hobby after many years, so maybe I'm not looking at this in the right light.

I just figured that with livebearers, when they drop their fry I wouldn't have to do much work (just leave them in the tank with the others). This 75 gallon tank is merely to raise food for my snapping turtle. That's why I'm looking for a fish that will reproduce quickly and doesn't need a heater.


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## MDR (Feb 20, 2012)

Depends how cold your house gets. I had a pair of convict way back in 65-70 degree water, although that is the lower end of tolerable temperatures. Not livebearers but they lay a bunch and care for them well. Babies grow quickly.


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

Well, based on what I know about the rosy minnows, you would not have to do anything much beyond make sure they are fed. They pretty much take care of themselves.

Unlike all the livebearers I know of, minnows don't eat their fry unless starving. So feed them and you're likely to get decent reproduction. You would likely have to buy a fair number of minnows, because of the way they are handled, you might lose a few until they get some condition from good feeding, but once you're past that, you should be golden.

Livebearing fish, like guppies, swords, etc, generally tend to eat most of their fry. So you would probably not get enough reproduction to feed the turtle from a lot of them. Minnows are a nice size for this purpose, being larger than guppies. Livebearer start up stock would cost more too, livebearers cost a lot more than minnows.

Minnows are very cheap compared to anything, other than, perhaps, small size feeder goldfish. Another name for the rosy minnow is fathead minnow. When in breeding condition the males grow a 'fat head' of specialized tissue, thus, good nutrition for the turtle too. 

If your place is below 55 F, yikes ! That is COLD for a house. If above 55, you should be good to go, and at very little expense.


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## YMS_1975 (Jan 6, 2013)

*Well....*

I recorded the temperature, and the tank is 12 degrees celcius. Keep in mind, this tank is in my basement (which is why it's that cold).

I would have loved to have kept goldfish as I have one and he/she is doing just fine in the basement (with no heater), only I was warned that they have mercury in them (Google it if you don't believe me) and if used as feeder fish, they can kill the pet you're feeding. As a matter of fact, I saw a YouTube video where a guy was feeding his alligator snapping turtle some feeder goldfish, and he reported that the turtle died as a result, so....I'm steering clear of that land mine.

Anyways.....so....with a 12 degree celcius temperature, what do you think? If an aquarium heater is absolutely necessary, then discussion closed; I'll get one. But I'm hoping I can stick with freshwater fish that thrive in colder waters (and are live bearers).


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

12 sounds too cold for much of anything besides native species especially for breeding.

Sounds like you need a heater. I needed a few heaters recently for breeding tanks and such and bought some off ebay for about $8 each, the quality is low, the cords are extremely short but they work and are affordable.


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## YMS_1975 (Jan 6, 2013)

*Well....*

....that seals it. An aquarium heater I shall get. This makes #5. I appreciate the feedback guys.


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## YMS_1975 (Jan 6, 2013)

*Follow up question!!!!*

Heh....so I bought my 5th aquarium heater, but I thought of yet another question.

Thanks to the feedback I received from you guys, I've decided on going with Platties.

Question is....how many should I get to start a colony?


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## Ryan.Wilton (Dec 12, 2012)

Well. How big is the tank?

I've read regarding livebearers that 16 is a good starter colony to prevent inbreeding. But you're using them for strictly feeders? Maybe 12 would be fine.


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## YMS_1975 (Jan 6, 2013)

*My tank.*

I'm going to be housing them in a 75 gallon tank. And yes, they are strictly feeders so I'm not too concerned about over-crowding them as their stay is temporary. 

I just bought pea-gravel so I have yet to introduce that to the tank. My tank is a work in progress but it's coming along.


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

with platies like most live bearers, you should have 3 females per 1 male as the males drive the women nuts just like humans


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## BillD (Jun 5, 2006)

If you are planning to grow feeders, consider a bare bottomed tank. Much easier to keep clean. Actually, if it's feeders you want you will get more with less effort and quicker with a pair of convicts.


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## YMS_1975 (Jan 6, 2013)

*Hmmmm*



BillD said:


> If you are planning to grow feeders, consider a bare bottomed tank. Much easier to keep clean. Actually, if it's feeders you want you will get more with less effort and quicker with a pair of convicts.


I Googled "convicts" + fish, but I don't think I got the correct results (they look too big).

Can you provide me with a link? I'd like to learn more.


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## george (Apr 11, 2009)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convict_cichlid

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/a_nigrofasciatus.php


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

Only problem with convicts is that they are not livebearers. Left to grow to adult size, they can get to about four inches or so, I think, but I'm not sure how old they have to be to begin reproducing.


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## macKRAZY (Feb 15, 2012)

i have a 70 gallon tank with potted plants and no substrate(easy to clean and nice to look at with plants/hiding places).. i have no heater/filter and it houses platies and guppies used for feeders... i do a 25% WC once a week.
my cichlids eat them with no problems... they breed like crazy and i have had no sick/dead fish from feeding or lack of filter/heater 

you will be fine with no heater!


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## macKRAZY (Feb 15, 2012)

macKRAZY said:


> i have a 70 gallon tank with potted plants and no substrate(easy to clean and nice to look at with plants/hiding places).. i have no heater/filter and it houses platies and guppies used for feeders... i do a 25% WC once a week.
> my cichlids eat them with no problems... they breed like crazy and i have had no sick/dead fish from feeding or lack of filter/heater
> 
> you will be fine with no heater!


scratch that... i just read page 1 and saw your temp is at 12.... LOL

what are u feeding if i may ask? i love carnis


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## YMS_1975 (Jan 6, 2013)

*You missed an important post....*



macKRAZY said:


> scratch that... i just read page 1 and saw your temp is at 12.... LOL
> 
> what are u feeding if i may ask? i love carnis


It seems you missed one of my posts in this thread.  Actually I ended up buying yet another aquarium heater so the temperature thing is no longer an issue.

I ended up buying Yellow Comet Platies. They're quite beautiful to look at, which is probably not the best idea (since I plan on using them as feeders for my AST). I shouldn't get too attached to them, eh? 

I ended up buying 15 of them and they are now in day 2 of adapting to their new home. So far so good (no deaths from new tank syndrome). My questions now are :

1) How long does it take for these guys to get jiggy and start multiplying? 
2) Am I ok feeding them Omega One Freshwater Flakes? I'm hoping this is suitable as I have a big container of it (5.3 oz / 148 g) and I want to utilize it. Heheh.
3) I took an old empty plastic container (which once held a protein powder mix), washed it thoroughly with traditional liquid dishwashing detergent, and put it in the tank (once it dried off). My two main concerns were that the liquid dishwashing detergent would leave some traces behind (even after a thorough washing) and would contaminate their water and/or that the plastic could potentially leach toxins into their tank. As I said above, so far they seem to be doing ok, but if you guys think my concerns are valid then I'll take the plastic container out immediately. If you're wondering _why_ I put it in their tank to begin with, I put it in there as a (big) cave-like structure (which is being held down with some pea gravel) for my 2 bushy nose plecos as they love these types of homes.


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

Once they are old enough to do the happy dance, they're usually pretty prolific.. not knowing how old yours are, hard to say when they'll start, but it will take awhile before you have a sustainable population you can harvest regularly.

If it were me, I wouldn't use the plastic container for a cave. There is a potential for leaching of things such as phthalates or BPA from many plastics. The detergent should not be a big problem provided it was rinsed and rinsed and rinsed again !

The food should be fine, but if you are going to use them as feeders, you might want to consider the following. One, you can enhance their food value by adding some variety to their diets, particularly live foods, such as worms, daphnia or fruit flies. 

Two, live foods are a big help with conditioning fish so they will come into breeding condition sooner. You don't have to feed such things all the time, once or twice a week is plenty for this kind of supplementation.


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