# Please don't taser my tetras! - Stunned Cardinals



## davec (Jan 19, 2010)

Bought some cardinals at PJ's sherway 5/$10. I Bought 10. As soon as they were in the bag 3 of them looked dead or dying. Sales guy says they were stunned. When I did not appear impressed with his explanation. He offered to throw in a couple more for free. Sure enough 2 out of 3 he caught to give me for free are also floating sideways. Of the initial batch 2/3 seem to be have perked up and the last seems to be improving. He says this is common with tetras. Any corroborating experiences.

Thx

Ps In case you wish to buy at PJ's the cardinals on special - a lot have visible ich. The other tank have cardianls not on special but seem to have no visible sign of ich. I let the sales guy know and he gave me fish from the healthier looking tank for the same price.

Pps FYI Nice Vicenza 46 gallon Fluval kit on display on sale for $200 off.


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## aln (Jan 26, 2010)

lol, i love it when people at LPS or LFS try to explain something they dont know and try to convince you at the same time. Once i was at petsmarts and there was a dead betta in one of their tanks at the bottom..so i told a sales person and they're like.."o its just sleeping, betta are slow moving fish that loves to sleeep on the bottom of the tank" 
and i was like..."nope...i think its dead.." and the betta slightly started flowing away


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## TBemba (Jan 11, 2010)

You bought the fish? dead or dying fish are not a deal at any price.

I would have walked away. People need to start demanding more from these chain pet stores. LFS you may pay more but it shows in quality.


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## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

For the time being just make sure the tank they're in is really well cycled and that nothing's going to bother them and cross your fingers (not assuming you don't know this stuff-- dont know your skill level Likely you do as you can spot ich).

Cardinals can handle temps up to 85 with no problems so if you do see ich rapidly jack the temp up (as fast as the heater will do it) from about 80-81 where you have them now up to 85. Again, you probably know that.

I have seen a lot of tetras. Bought many. Sold many. Never had a tetra really do that before. Cardinals are one of the more delicate tetras, but still, that just seems odd.

You did get a good price but no this is definitely not an experience I think anyone can corroborate as being normal I think the guy was just being a bit of a jerk saying the fish was stunned. I would have walked away. Have many times.


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## davec (Jan 19, 2010)

*2 cardinals RIP*

The funny thing is I ordered 10 I got 10 except 2-3 didn't look well. He then caught 3 more in case the 3 didn't make it. Wrt the next 3 he caught, 1 looked ok the other 2 looked stunned. The tank from where they came looked good. Well planted, and the cardinals appeared healthy (I've also seen cardinals at other LFS with what appeared to be a bunch of new arrivals with dead and dying cardinals and this did not look like that. It was well planted so I can't see him trying to purposely trying to catch me 3 sick replacements with a large net without disturbing everything. Mind you I wasn't looking over his shoulder every second either.

Anyways the 10 original are still alive the really stunned one looks better though he still swims a bit funny. Only one of the 3 replacements made it so I got 11/13 still alive and swimming. They are rather small barely over a cm. I reckon being a fragile fish and small to boot probably doesn't help either.


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## qwerty (Dec 15, 2009)

They're not stunned, they're sick/dying. If you think about it, it really doesn't make sense... What is the evolutionary purpose of a schooling fish that gets stunned? A predator charges the school and they all spontaniously roll onto their backs? Schooling fish survive by moving around together... Not by getting stunned...

I've seen employees at Big Al's in MIssisauga use this excuse. "It's not dead, it's feigning death because it's scared, the species does that sometimes".

The people working at these stores don't care about fish, let alone your fish. This is a job for them, and nothing more than a job. Selling dead fish to you is just one way they make the job interesting for themselves because to these highschool kids, it's funny.

I wouldn't be surprised if you lost a lot more of them in the next few days. Happened to me when I first started keeping fish... Lesson learned... Don't buy discount pets...

The upside though is that if any of the fish survive for you, they'll be tough as nails to have survived that and you should have some pretty hardy fish once they recover and get a proper diet.


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## Calmer (Mar 9, 2008)

It's a Norwegian Blue pining for the fiords.


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## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

I once heard a kid working @ BA's scaroro downstairs tell someone they could put angels, oscars, red devils, convict, and a flowerhorn in a 55 gallon and nothing would bother anything else because 'you can put anything south american with anything else south american'.

I stepped in to that conversation, though it was a rude thing to do, because otherwise this person would have probably taken the advice to heart and bad things would have happened for them.


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## davec (Jan 19, 2010)

*down to 7 cardinals now*

losing 1-2 /day. I guess they were just sick to begin with. Nitrites 0. Nitrates <20. They seem to eat well. Are cardinals generally in poor shape in most/many LFS? I see a lot of threads on the internet in general where people buy a bunch and then lose them almost daily so I guess I'm not the only one. Better success rate with larger cardinals? Seems to make sense a bigger fish would have more resilience in general?

Lastly any LFS you guys recommend in Mississauga. Tried BA and dragon aquarium with mixed results. Alternative aquarium was better but on the far side.

Thx


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## NuclearTech (Mar 23, 2008)

Hi Davec,

2 years ago I purchased about 15 cardinals from Alternative Aquariums. I never lost one. I believe I also bought 3 Bolivian rams and 2 ottos at that time. Never a sick fish, never a problem. I can't say anything about recent livestock as it's been awhile. However, IMO, it was worth the drive (and I'm coming from downtown Toronto).


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## davec (Jan 19, 2010)

are they (mostly) still alive?


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## NuclearTech (Mar 23, 2008)

I don't have them anymore. They were very happy and healthy in my old tank for 6 months before I had a leak and downsized. I couldn't keep them in my (then obviously overcrowded) 20 gallon so they were given to a new home. I'm out of touch with that person, so I can't give a further update. My opinion though, is that if they were healthy for that long in my tank, then their source was great. The fact that you are losing them so quickly after acquiring them means one of two things: a problem with your tank (hopefully unlikely) or a problem with their source (LFS or the LFS's source). 

Just a thought: How long did your LFS have the cardinal's before putting them up for sale? With some fish, the trip to your LFS leads to many many casualties as the fish have to acclimate to their new environment. It's difficult, but if you can purchase either locally bred fish (so you know they like our water params) or purchase fish that have been at the LFS for a couple of weeks, IMO you may have better luck.


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## NuclearTech (Mar 23, 2008)

davec said:


> are they (mostly) still alive?


OH, but I still have my Bolivians. One guy is the BOSS of the tank. No messing with him!


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## davec (Jan 19, 2010)

Bought 8 more cardinals from big al's miss. These weren't stunned at all and seem to adapt better to my tank. The fact that they are bigger probably doesn't hurt.


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## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

I'm glad these are not pining for the norwegian fjord


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## qwerty (Dec 15, 2009)

davec said:


> Bought 8 more cardinals from big al's miss. These weren't stunned at all and seem to adapt better to my tank. The fact that they are bigger probably doesn't hurt.


Again, fish don't get stunned like that. Anyone who tells you they're stunned is trying to play you for an ignorant sucker, selling you fish that are near dead. I've been given that same "They're stunned" excuse from employees at the big al's you went to.

I happen to know a teacher who's seen many of their students wind up working at that Big Al's who assured me that some of the ones they've seen working there are a testament to the low standards that store must be setting for its employees. Expect the same dirty tricks from that store as well.

Just an example of the sort of thing you can expect... Say you buy some fish there... Within 3 hours of getting them home they're all dead. You go back to the store with the receipt and a sample of your water to complain. They take your sample of water and disappear into the supply room. A few minutes later they come back out and tell you your water is testing high for ammonia, when you know for a fact that your tank is cycled. You tell them you tested it, and know that there's no ammonia in it and ask to see the test. They tell you that they cleaned the tube already and suggest that your test kit is expired and try to sell you a new one. They also try to sell you a product to reduce ammonia toxicity while your tank cycles.

You get home with the new test kit only to confirm that no, there is no ammonia in your water.


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