# Plumbing for my 100 gallon (review and advise)



## aquaticlog (Mar 24, 2012)

My 100 gallon tank should be arriving next week - 48'' x 24'' x 20''.

I'm new to reef tank plumbing and have put together the following diagrams and item list. Would really appreciate if anyone can provide some advice.

I plan to use Schedule 40 PVC. Top will be rigid, bottom will start off rigid and then will turn flexible after the true union valve.

I already have the bulkheads.

Top view of the tank









Side view









Inside the cabinet









The parts I've bought so far









Sump









The parts that I don't have are marked in red on the diagram.

For flexible hoses I will be using Spa Flex, which I've found, but how do I connect this to the rigid pipe?

I could not figure out a way to reduce from 1.5'' to 3/4'' - this is for the Herbie overflow - the 3/4'' would be going straight into refugium.

I could not find an end cup for 1.5'' durso backup pipe.

I was told at Lowe's that I should be using an All Purpose Cement. Is that correct? I seem to recall that this might not work.


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

you miss many parts

you have reducer in the second row from the top. Greys in your picture you can use to connect flex to the rigid.
Where are you in toronto? I am steeles and bathuirst

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## aquaticlog (Mar 24, 2012)

sig said:


> you miss many parts
> 
> you have reducer in the second row from the top. Greys in your picture you can use to connect flex to the rigid.
> Where are you in toronto? I am steeles and bathuirst
> ...


I'm in Richmond Hill. Yonge/MajorMac

I have not yet figured out a good way to connect flexible (Spa Flex) to rigid.


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## talon (May 7, 2009)

I'd say keep 1.5" or 1" for herbie and backup. Use gate valve instead ball valve.
Locate a valve end of the pipe, otherwise it will splash water into the sump and produce micro bubble back to DT. It's my 0.02. you look like bought a wrong glue. Also you don't need durso backup, just a regular backup pipe. (no T, no cap) When a water line cover backup totally, a siphon will happen.


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## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

Looks like you went to Lowes . I agree with talon, you have the wrong glue. The Oatey All Purpose Cement is more of a glue than a bonding cement. PVC cement integrates itself with the two PVC surfaces to be joined. 

Think of it this way, glue is like silicone in between the glass seams there is a transition between the two surfaces to be joined, PVC cement is much like acrylic seams, the joined material "becomes one", much like an acrylic seam.

It's just an example, let's not get into tensile/shear strength, gap transition, polymer alignment/linkages, etc...that's another topic of discussion...LOL!

Forgot to mention, I suggest you get the primer to clean the residual glue off the two PVC pieces before join them. They do have a clear primer @Lowes in the same section if you don't want to see purple streaks where you've cleaned.


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## aquaticlog (Mar 24, 2012)

Ok, thank you everyone for your help. I've learned a lot and here is the revised plumbing picture. It certainly does look more complete.










The only parts I am missing now are the 3/4'' spa flex and more importantly a 1.5'' gate valve. They did not have either at Lowe's.

Does the new plumbing work? Am I missing any pieces?

A few more questions. I got the following cement and clearing solution. Should I be using PVC or CPVC cement? What about connecting spa-flex to PVC? Is clear primer as good as the purple stuff? There's also Weld-On cement, is it that much better (I'd get it but don't want to drive too far).










And finally, here are the three tapes I got for screwing the pipes. Which one out of these three should I be using? One coating or more?


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## aquaticlog (Mar 24, 2012)

talon said:


> I'd say keep 1.5" or 1" for herbie and backup. Use gate valve instead ball valve.
> Locate a valve end of the pipe, otherwise it will splash water into the sump and produce micro bubble back to DT. It's my 0.02. you look like bought a wrong glue. Also you don't need durso backup, just a regular backup pipe. (no T, no cap) When a water line cover backup totally, a siphon will happen.


Would having a ball-valve (see my revised plumbing) not work reducing the splashing? Especially if I will have a gate valve.

I have enough space for Durso there, so my thinking was to use it to minimize any sound even for backup.

Does either point make sense?


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## aquaticlog (Mar 24, 2012)

wtac said:


> Looks like you went to Lowes . I agree with talon, you have the wrong glue. The Oatey All Purpose Cement is more of a glue than a bonding cement. PVC cement integrates itself with the two PVC surfaces to be joined.
> 
> Think of it this way, glue is like silicone in between the glass seams there is a transition between the two surfaces to be joined, PVC cement is much like acrylic seams, the joined material "becomes one", much like an acrylic seam.
> 
> ...


I got the primer you've recommended. Is this the one? It says "Clear Cleaner" on it, but does not say "Primer"


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## aquaticlog (Mar 24, 2012)

Here's the revised diagram:


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## talon (May 7, 2009)

Use pvc cement (gray color).
Are you going to running herbie and durso pipe same time for drain?
In fact, all water should go down herbie, durso is emergency backup only.
There is minor volume water go down in normal. You don't need any valve for durso. Gate valve is more detail than ball valve to adjust water level in overflow box. Splash water is another topic. You can image the pipe before valve is fully siphon(no air), but the part after valve will splash with air.


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## aquaticlog (Mar 24, 2012)

talon said:


> Use pvc cement (gray color).
> Are you going to running herbie and durso pipe same time for drain?
> In fact, all water should go down herbie, durso is emergency backup only.
> There is minor volume water go down in normal. You don't need any valve for durso. Gate valve is more detail than ball valve to adjust water level in overflow box. Splash water is another topic. You can image the pipe before valve is fully siphon(no air), but the part after valve will splash with air.


My understanding was that even with Herbie some (very little) water may still be drained from the backup drain. Hence was my thinking of putting the Durso in.

The valve for Durso was just a precaution, you are right it is mostly overkill, I could simply get by with a union.


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## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

The cleaner is fine. It's not as strong as primer but for this application, it is fine to get residual crud off...just take a tad bit more effort . The purple primer has a dye so that plumbing inspectors know that the material has been primed before cementing. I use the clear primer most of the time but for systems with closed loop systems, I use the purple primer to make sure that I didn't miss anything and that the surfaces are super clean for a good bond...not a place you want leaks nor a weak bond .

Generally, I use the clear PVC cement on white piping for a cleaner look as you want the cement will ooze out a bit when you cement the fittings together. Wear gloves and use your index finger to give a "pressing wipe" of the oozed cement into the pipe and fitting edge...like finishing the silicone seam on the inside corner if you can visualize what I'm trying to describe. It can be found in the electrical conduit section. Make sure that you get the the one with a light orange(?) label and not the light green. The light green is a fast set and you have no margin for error in fitting alignment. At least with the standard cement, you have ~2-3 secs to manipulate or pull apart.

Of the teflon tapes, I use either the pink or orange. They are thicker than the standard white and easier to peel off the roll and stretch tightly around the threads without breaking as well as fewer turns to get the desired tape wrap thickness. If memory serves me right, about 4-5 or 5-6 turns does the trick. The yellow is fine (for gas fittings) but worth the added cost...IIRC, $2-3 more/roll.

HTH


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## aquaticlog (Mar 24, 2012)

Thanks! I am now trying to fit the male adapter into the threaded bulkhead, it only goes in for maybe half an inch.. is this normal or is it supposed to go all the way? This is 1.5'' bulkhead.
1'' goes in much smoother.


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## aquaticlog (Mar 24, 2012)

Slowly but surely I'm putting things together. I can't believe how painful this is - had to make 3 trips to Lowe's over the weekend and still don't have all the parts. I guess I will have to now go to a specialized store.

All pieces have come together, more or less.









Lots of parts left.









Overflow's bulkhead and lockline









Overflow - putting the return line in is going to be a challenge. I will need 3/4'' spa-flex. Tried this with rigid piping and it is simply tough









Under the cabinet

















Another piece is missing - I can't seem to connect the pump to PVC. It requires 1.25'' threading.









Also need to buy the 1.5'' gate valve.


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## talon (May 7, 2009)

I'd say you did wrong way on return line. You don't need bulkhead on overflow wall. Just rigid pipe > 90 elbow > female thread adapter > lockline. It's no hurt water go through from tank to overflow box.
I order my 2x1.5 gate valve from BRS.


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

I'd run your set up alittle differently if you can still redo a few things.

1st, I'd run the drain on the very left (the straight drop) as your main drain line. Change the ball to a gate valve, and get rid of the durso on top. This way the water has as minimal resistance to get to the sump.

Second, for the backup drain line, I would set it up as open at the top - you don't want it to be too quiet - you actually want to hear it if it's handling a lot of flow because that means your main drain is clogged. Also, with the small amount of water that might normally run down it, it won't make any noise as the gurgling, etc that people get with open drains which is usually from handling too much flow.

I would also incorporate a ball valve just after the pump on the return line, before the tee to the refugium. This way you can have a lot more control over the flow rate which will really help in dialing in your herbie.

Here's the plumbing plan for my 100g display tank:


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## aquaticlog (Mar 24, 2012)

Ta-da! The plumbing is fully done. Now that was a bit painful. Worst part was the threading on the DC-5000 pump, the 1.25'' thread female adapter is only half-way screwed on it. Another adapter was completely ruined.

Next step is to do a water test and to try and adjust the overflow.














































Thanks, everyone!


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Looks good! Did you drill siphon break holes in the return plumbing near the top of the return plumbing? If not, when the power fails or the pump craps out for whatever reason, the return line will siphon a lot of water out of the display, which your sump might not be able to handle.


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## aquaticlog (Mar 24, 2012)

ameekplec. said:


> Looks good! Did you drill siphon break holes in the return plumbing near the top of the return plumbing? If not, when the power fails or the pump craps out for whatever reason, the return line will siphon a lot of water out of the display, which your sump might not be able to handle.


That's a great point. I was thinking of doing this, but could not figure out a perfect spot for this. Would appreciate an advice.


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

I hate spa flex


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## aquaticlog (Mar 24, 2012)

Chris S said:


> I hate spa flex


Because...?


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

aquaticlog said:


> Because...?


Well, for one, I don't think it looks quite a slick as when everything is plumbed with rigid pvc.

Second, is that I don't believe the bond between rigid pvc and flex pvc is anywhere near as strong. Flex, due to it curving by nature of design, will never be a perfect fit into rigid fittings and because of the difference in chemical composition of the two, the bond is not as strong.

On top of this, I think there is an increased risk of actually damaging the bond where they connect by bumping, moving or otherwise putting pressure on the flex pvc.

I'm not sure I could pinpoint a case where a proper rigid connection failed, but I have seen rigid to flex connections begin leaking after some time.

That said, there are many situations where it really is invaluable. Nor would I say that it is common to leak by any means - I just don't like having that situation in the back of my head.

One area I do like using spaflex or vinyl tubing is close to the return pump, because it helps kill vibration.

Some other things: On your return line, I would have tried to use 4x 45 degree fittings instead of 2x 90. Helps to avoid some loss of pressure.

Second is that I would have put a ball valve above the "T" in the return, you will find it easier to control the flow up and through the "T".

Last thing I would mention, that was mentioned before, is that you may have trouble running a proper herbie without a gate valve. On tanks with a higher head height, a ball valve will work ok (8-10'), but I think you will find it finicky at the height you have it.

Looks good though, especially if this is your first time doing it. It can seem daunting, but is much easier than it may seem from the outset!


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Drill on the sides of the Tee just before the bulkhead on your overflow. You should try to have it so that the holes are JUST below the water line when the overflow is running, that way there's no splash. 

Test it a few times. Let the return pump run as it normally would, and then cut the power. Check that the holes are sufficiently large (drill at least 2) that it will kill the siphon when the return pump turns off.


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