# queston about ethics



## altcharacter (Jan 10, 2011)

So I learned today from four different people that there is a person selling frags as "designer" frags and not caring about it.

We won't get into who it is because I reall don't care and that isn't the subject here.

The subject is:
Would you still buy a frag if it wasn't from the source?
Would you feel ripped off if you bought it and it wasn't the same piece?
Once you found out it wasn't from the source, would you re-sell it as the designer piece or would you fess up and just sell it as an off brand?


Interested to know peoples thoughts on the subject.

P.S. Buyer beware. Know your dealer


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## kwsjimmy (Jan 5, 2015)

*humm*

Depends what the term "designer" is .. If he is selling something as not what it really is.. No bueno.


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## Bullet (Apr 19, 2014)

Great posting and I have thought about this a lot 
Thanks for taking the initiative to bring this topic to light 
I've been concerned about the source of some corals and while I am very motivated to buy from forum members what is "advertised" and what it actually turns out to be can be quite different - which is sad
Best that we can do is post honestly - which is always what you do ! Thanks for setting the benchmark to which all should live by !


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## Marz (Mar 1, 2014)

I have thought quite a bit about this since it was posted. I don't usually give my opinion as I enjoy all about this site and the people that are helpful and share their experiences. 
Personally, I am not concerned about lineage, I am more concerned about coral that I find beauty in. I want to have a nice, healthy tank as it displays my care and commitment. That said, when someone states lineage or utilizes lineage (I know nothing about this stuff as I mentioned), I assume that it is an affront to the original line and consequently leads me to believe that either intentional or unintentional "naming" needs to be called out or corrected - idealistic maybe.

If it wasn't for this site and its members, I would know no better, be less advised and educated. So for those that point out misrepresentations, misbehavior or even alternative methods of husbandry, thanks  I do care about how I spend my money.


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## guelphjay (Mar 10, 2014)

For someone like me, I buy what I think looks nice and will fit in the vision I have for my tank. I'm really not that knowledgeable (but learning). 

If there is a reasonable expectation that the seller should know better but an error has been made, then I think people will cut some slack. But if they are deliberately misleading or continuously saying I didn't know it was xxx when it was actually yyy that's pretty damaging to their reputation. 

In terms of the seller, I think they are running a huge risk because more informed members will catch on. When word gets out (which it always does) who's going to buy from that source? There are quite a few high quality LFS and other members, why would you go back. I had a really crappy experience at a LFS who shall remain nameless when I first stated 2 years ago. I've never been back.


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## Midland (Jan 26, 2015)

If the person selling the corals is claiming a lineage that he knows to be false in order to increase his profits than he should be called out for it. However, before the person accusing them of this makes any public accusations, ethically they need to have proof that the seller was deliberately falsifying their records and information. In other words, the ethical responsibility is not only on the person selling the coral, but also on the person claiming that dishonest business practices are occurring. This might be a persons lively hood we are speaking of and I would hate to see false accusations do unwarranted damage.


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## Marz (Mar 1, 2014)

Midland said:


> If the person selling the corals is claiming a lineage that he knows to be false in order to increase his profits than he should be called out for it. However, before the person accusing them of this makes any public accusations, ethically they need to have proof that the seller was deliberately falsifying their records and information. In other words, the ethical responsibility is not only on the person selling the coral, but also on the person claiming that dishonest business practices are occurring. This might be a persons lively hood we are speaking of and I would hate to see false accusations do unwarranted damage.


Well said.


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

Midland said:


> If the person selling the corals is claiming a lineage that he knows to be false in order to increase his profits than he should be called out for it. However, before the person accusing them of this makes any public accusations, ethically they need to have proof that the seller was deliberately falsifying their records and information. In other words, the ethical responsibility is not only on the person selling the coral, but also on the person claiming that dishonest business practices are occurring. This might be a persons lively hood we are speaking of and I would hate to see false accusations do unwarranted damage.


now you got enemies 

are you the lawyer ?

the original question was wrong from the beginning. There are no ethics when sale occurs. Seller always wants to get more and byer wants to pay less. There is another question how this "screwing" is covered - nicely or not

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## fury165 (Aug 21, 2010)

sig said:


> now you got enemies
> 
> are you the lawyer ?


Might I suggest one?


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## joel.c (Sep 11, 2012)

Would you still buy a frag if it wasn't from the source?
-Most likely not unless they had a ton of positive feedback and I read a bunch of their posts to allow me to have comfort with the seller's experience.

Would you feel ripped off if you bought it and it wasn't the same piece?
-Yes, but I would make sure I inspected closely and did my best to ensure its what I thought I was buying.

Once you found out it wasn't from the source, would you re-sell it as the designer piece or would you fess up and just sell it as an off brand?
-I would sell it at best offer and fess up. It may still be an awesome piece though and its worth as much as the market is willing to pay.


My thoughts;

At the end of the day there is a mutual responsibility of both the buyer and the seller to know what they are doing. There is such a thing as a honest mistake and this is a hobby in which we are trading living organisms. Unless we are marine biologists we are only making educated guesses based on either our experience or the internet.

As for someone trying to sell something that they know is fake and charging a premium price, this is both morally and legally wrong. I feel that since its clearly not worth the hassle of going to small claims court, etc. We should protect each other by exposing this person so that others are not caught with this issue. 

There is nothing wrong with buying a fake designer watch as long as you know its a fake designer watch and you didn't pay a designer price in deception.

-Joel


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## tom g (Jul 8, 2009)

*morals*

I think we need to start giving

CERTIFICATES OF AUTHENTICY ....

then prob would be solved ...
as above know your source and stick to who u trust .anybody out there whos spending large cash on stuff should do the work to verify there purchase

anyways just my opinion


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## silent1mezzo (Jun 24, 2014)

tom g said:


> I think we need to start giving
> 
> CERTIFICATES OF AUTHENTICY ....
> 
> ...


My forging skills are finally coming back  It's not a bad idea, but can be gamed easily.


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## TBemba (Jan 11, 2010)

Reminds me of the wild caught cichlids


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

silent1mezzo said:


> My forging skills are finally coming back  It's not a bad idea, but can be gamed easily.


LOL, I always thought there was something off with the whole "certificate" business. If a person is going to sell fake stuff, how difficult would it be to forge a piece of paper?


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## tom g (Jul 8, 2009)

*point*

That was my point... never meant it to be thought of comes 
back to my reply know your source and if u hand over 900
Bucks to some one u better k I ow your stuff and know what u are 
getting...again if u like it and want it pay for it...not my cup of tea

If some one is being shady then word of mouth will get to him or her..gta is 
pretty tight forum ...

Anyways im out cheers and have a great weekend


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## silent1mezzo (Jun 24, 2014)

Can we not just let this be? I'm tired of the topic in the Marketplace and I don't want to see it here.


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## fury165 (Aug 21, 2010)

silent1mezzo said:


> Can we not just let this be? I'm tired of the topic in the Marketplace and I don't want to see it here.


Actually this is the right place to have a discussion like this, not in the seller's FS thread. We always have the option of not reading the thread if you disagree or tired of the topic.

I think DNA profiling will be the next step - of course this, like blue flashlights will drive up the price


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