# constant high nitrates



## coldmantis (Apr 5, 2010)

here's the background of the tank it's 20g long, has been running for almost a year if not more then a year, water is perfect. Previously was using schultz aquasoil. I decided to change to fluval shrimp stranum about 3 months ago. The tank is divided into 4 parts each compartment has a power filter with a sponge prefilter. All 3 filters except for 1 are mature 1 year+. 80% of old perfect water was used. bottom is covered with java fern and java/taiwan moss, small pieces of cholo wood, some biorings, some terracotta pots, the surface is 50-60% covered with water lettuce, duckweed and unknown floating plant. water is around 70% R/O+30% tap. I would guess less than 100 shrimp in total for the entire tank, I feed very little every other day. I been get a constant 40-60ppm nitrates since I change the substrate to fluval, I been doing 2-3x 10% WC every week, filters were cleaned. nothing is wrong with my nitrate test kit, I have confirm that with other tanks. no co2 no fertz low light setup. only thing that helps is if I put a bag the size of a fist worth of barley pellets to suck up the nitrates but I don't like doing that since some weird white slimy translucent film grows on the bag after like 2-3 days. some shrimp has died but haven't had a death in a while and I did my best to find all the dead shrimp and throw them in the puffer tank. any ideas? because I'm stumped.


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## coldmantis (Apr 5, 2010)

is everyone as stumped as I am about this issue, I put the barley pellet bag back and nitrates are around 5-10ppm but I hate that thing smells like shit.


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## tijuanatoad (May 17, 2010)

Try to rule-out some variables ie. take out some fluval substrate and place it into a cup with new water and test daily to see if your getting ammonia or nitrates.


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## arktixan (Mar 30, 2010)

If your still having issues... Try using the Nutrafin Cycle.. 
The bottle says too, it helps promote growth of beneficial bacteria... 

It's a biological aquarium supplement.
that helps remove ammonia and nitrate.

Your call in the end I suppose .
I know I've been using it, I have not had a shrimp death in well over a month using the dosage recommended.


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## coldmantis (Apr 5, 2010)

tijuanatoad said:


> Try to rule-out some variables ie. take out some fluval substrate and place it into a cup with new water and test daily to see if your getting ammonia or nitrates.


I have the fluval in other tanks they are fine, remember the tank is 1 year + old with 4 filters 3 of them are 1 year+ old cycled, substrate has been there for like 4 months


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## coldmantis (Apr 5, 2010)

arktixan said:


> If your still having issues... Try using the Nutrafin Cycle..
> The bottle says too, it helps promote growth of beneficial bacteria...
> 
> It's a biological aquarium supplement.
> ...


I don't use commercial cycle products I always cycle a tank with either fish or straight ammonia, tank is 1 year+ substrate is almost 4 months+ 4 filters, only shrimp that seem to be dying is my crystal reds, my cherries, yellow, red rili and crystal blacks seems to be fine.


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

Check if any of your power filters have a lot of gunk hidden in some nook or cranny. I recently moved some filters around and discovered a huge pile of gunk in one of my filters.


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## coldmantis (Apr 5, 2010)

solarz said:


> Check if any of your power filters have a lot of gunk hidden in some nook or cranny. I recently moved some filters around and discovered a huge pile of gunk in one of my filters.


that's one of the very first things I did which was to check and clean the filters in dirty tank water.


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## vrb th hrb (Feb 20, 2010)

it seems like the issue is either in your substrate or in your water. eliminate the variables one by one and test them accordingly. I had an issue once with my tap water testing at 5-10ppm nitrates. or if your filters are old on the r/o unit......


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## coldmantis (Apr 5, 2010)

vrb th hrb said:


> it seems like the issue is either in your substrate or in your water. eliminate the variables one by one and test them accordingly. I had an issue once with my tap water testing at 5-10ppm nitrates. or if your filters are old on the r/o unit......


I refill the r/o at canadian tire, and always test it after I buy it, it's not the water. like I said I tried everything I can think of.


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## BillD (Jun 5, 2006)

10% water changes will do next to nothing to reduce high nitrates. You would be far better doing one 30% than 3 x 10%. Regardless if you have high nitrates you are not changing enough water. In addition you may need to clean your filters more often or more thoroughly in order to remove solid material before it can be broken down.


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## Norman (Feb 13, 2011)

I'm actually have the same problem and so watching this thread with interest... I do a 40% weekly water change with gravel vac on my 75G and rinse one of the filters in the bucket with tank water. Two days later my NA will be about 80 I do have a hard time telling which shade of red the API test is displaying... Could it be the Flourish I add for the plants that cause the spikes?


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## coldmantis (Apr 5, 2010)

BillD said:


> 10% water changes will do next to nothing to reduce high nitrates. You would be far better doing one 30% than 3 x 10%. Regardless if you have high nitrates you are not changing enough water. In addition you may need to clean your filters more often or more thoroughly in order to remove solid material before it can be broken down.


I started keeping crystal reds about 2 years ago, from my 2 years experience doing huge water changes like 30% gives you death, it's when I stopped changing my water for a few months that I had successful baby survival, but of course this issue is not about baby survival this is about high nitrates. I'm pretty sure it's under 10ppm now or less but like I said before I can only achieve that with barley straw pellets in the tank. I'm going to take it out again and do a bigger water change. I will see if the nitrates creep up again.


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## vrb th hrb (Feb 20, 2010)

leftover food? how often are you vaccuming the gravel? sorry, just trying to think about what it might be


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## coldmantis (Apr 5, 2010)

feed once every other day and they eat it all I don't feed much. fluval is too hard to gravel vac but it's clean.


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## coldmantis (Apr 5, 2010)

just got a tds pen and checked my tds it's 100ppm


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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

I think removing things one by one is a good idea. Try to take a picture of your tank. I kind of got lost in the descriptions.
I would start with removing most of the water lectuse. Make sure you have a mimimun of 75% of the survface exposed to the light. Why? I don't know, but have been down this path before. Could be a possible o2 competition issue.
2nd, pick up your wood and smell it. If it stinks, it's decomposing, that maybe the cause.

Hope to see a picture of your tank, there maybe something that just right infront but not seeing it.

Oh, good call on the cycle product. Stay away from that stuff.

Good luck,

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## coldmantis (Apr 5, 2010)

did a big water change last night maybe 40%, removed the barley pellets and tested this afternoon nitrates is <5ppm, found 1 preggy cbs and 1 dead crs...
first is full shoot of tank
second is what every compartment contains, 1 taiwan pad, 3 pots, 1 bioring, 1 cholo wood, 6 java fern on rock, 1 marimo moss ball
last is surface of tank


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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

Woah, I have to admit, nice setup. Sorry, I can't even find any flaw to your system even when I am out looking for it.
I think what you want to watch out for is make sure you clean the sponge every week. Those sponge tends to clog easily in a planted tank and as a result render your filter unless.
How's the air circulation? Leave a bit room for air exchange.
Gravel ... is it ADA? I heard rumours that ADA gravel are high on nitrate.

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## coldmantis (Apr 5, 2010)

Zebrapl3co said:


> Woah, I have to admit, nice setup. Sorry, I can't even find any flaw to your system even when I am out looking for it.
> I think what you want to watch out for is make sure you clean the sponge every week. Those sponge tends to clog easily in a planted tank and as a result render your filter unless.
> How's the air circulation? Leave a bit room for air exchange.
> Gravel ... is it ADA? I heard rumours that ADA gravel are high on nitrate.


sponge is cleaned when I water change, but it doesn't clog much since it is a shrimp tank and I don't feed much, circulation is good the substrate sometimes moves from the waterfalls, and it's fluval stranum. every shrimp in that tank is berried. rcs berried and babies, red rili berried and no babies, yellow berried and babies, cbs berried and no babies, crs not berried and dying...


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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

Hmm ... this is so weird, you seem to be doing every thing right and yet, the reading can't be wrong if you tested it on another tank.
The next thing I would go after would have been the bio-rings. Have you heard about the debate of bio-rings in salt water setup?
It was very popular for a while and then every saltie avoid them like a plague because they are consider a nitrate factory? This is because they are very good at trapping decay stuff. If it's not clean property and regularly, the stuff decomposes and 6 months down the road, your filter basically turns into a nitrate factory and no amount of water changes seems to fix the problem. This sounds a bit like your case.
How brave/desperate are you? If you are up to it, I would recommend that you disconnect all your filter and replace it with an air pump. Just leave the sponge filter in the tank, which was designed to be used with an air pump anyway. I believe those filter are rated to be sufficient for each compartment.
But .... this being your tank and not mine ... you might want to give it some heavy consideration.

Oh, on another though, have you tested your tap water? I know of cases where, if there was a leak in the goverment pipe, ground water would leech into the tap water system and end up coming out of your tap. Usually, in these kind of scenario, the water is usually high in nitrate.

Another theory is that you have very high chloramine solution in your tap water. Even if you lock it with dechlor, it's still a locked form of ammonia what will eventually be consume by the bacteria. Which again, will very quickly end with high nitrate as the final product.

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## coldmantis (Apr 5, 2010)

Zebrapl3co said:


> Hmm ... this is so weird, you seem to be doing every thing right and yet, the reading can't be wrong if you tested it on another tank.
> The next thing I would go after would have been the bio-rings. Have you heard about the debate of bio-rings in salt water setup?
> It was very popular for a while and then every saltie avoid them like a plague because they are consider a nitrate factory? This is because they are very good at trapping decay stuff. If it's not clean property and regularly, the stuff decomposes and 6 months down the road, your filter basically turns into a nitrate factory and no amount of water changes seems to fix the problem. This sounds a bit like your case.
> How brave/desperate are you? If you are up to it, I would recommend that you disconnect all your filter and replace it with an air pump. Just leave the sponge filter in the tank, which was designed to be used with an air pump anyway. I believe those filter are rated to be sufficient for each compartment.
> ...


Tap water was tested, a while ago when I first had this problem and tap has no nirates, as for bio rings, its only in 1 ac20 and I made small caves that I silicone together 4 of them in total, I tested last night and the nitrates creeped up from 0 a day ago to 10ppm last night.


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

Could it simply be that you have a large bioload? How many shrimps are you keeping in there?


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## coldmantis (Apr 5, 2010)

solarz said:


> Could it simply be that you have a large bioload? How many shrimps are you keeping in there?


nah I would say around 100 shrimp in total maybe a little less in a 20 gallon long is having a betta in a 10 gallon by himself.


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## CrystalMethShrimp (Apr 27, 2010)

Hey man, 

the only obvious causes of nitrates would be

A) bio load
b) lack of beneficial bacteria ( 3 aged sponge filters isn't enough, especially with a new 3 month old substrate and no extra bio media)
C) lack of nitrate absorbing plants

since your tap and r/o read no no3. 

a) I don't think u have a large bio load as I keep around 60 crs in a 12 gal
with a nitrate close to 0 ppm.

b) this can be solved by using one of those ADA bactor balls. If your using only sponge filter I would recommand getting a canister filter or hob filter with some good media. Good bio media goes a long way and it's the key to avoiding water changes. 

C) duck weed, duck weed!! my surface area is over 80% covered in duckweed which is what i acredit my low low nitrates to. GL.


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## coldmantis (Apr 5, 2010)

A) bio load

yes I don't think there is a lot of bio load

b) lack of beneficial bacteria ( 3 aged sponge filters isn't enough, especially with 
a new 3 month old substrate and no extra bio media)

all sponge filters are fairly new and are connect to hob filters which has been in use for 1 year+

C) lack of nitrate absorbing plants

check on the last pic it doesn't look like it but there is at least 40 plants of water lettuce and enough duckweed to cover 60% of a 20 gallon long 30"x12".


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## CrystalMethShrimp (Apr 27, 2010)

coldmantis said:


> A) bio load
> 
> yes I don't think there is a lot of bio load
> 
> ...


add some mosura bt-9 or ada bactor ball to give a boost in benefical bacteria.

your 2 steps are to offset the no3 with plants/bacteria and to find source of the no3. maybe the fluval sub?

you could also be feeding too much. Show us a photo of a how much you feed each section and of what.

btw where are you getting your barley straw from? they are very good for promoting gram positive bacteria.


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## Norman (Feb 13, 2011)

What is mosur-bt-9 or bacter ball? I'm seeing the same high nitrates in a planted tank with a light bio load and wondering what to do...


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## coldmantis (Apr 5, 2010)

I do have to add that I never had this problem before, it started a couple of months ago when I stupidly bought the eros spray that's when they started to drop. I believe I used it twice in 1 month and then stopped but the shrimp hasn't stop dying since. Also when I sprayed it, it was in another tank not this one that I'm having problems with.


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