# Please help, java fern dieing from decease!



## ppaskova (Apr 27, 2010)

Hello

Please help, java fern dieing from decease! I've got some very strange problem. I have 10Gl planted tank where I have 3 bushes of java fern, 2 bushes of windowlov (variation of java fern), 3 bushes of amazon sword and 6 bushes of thai hygrophilia and a lot of java moss. My java fern and windowlow was in my tank since I started it 8 months ago and they wore growing like crazy since then and propagating very well as well. And now all of it and specially two oldest and biggest bushes got some kind of light brown spotting (not the small dark brown propagating one). that killing it rapidly (see attached pictures) and specially windowlow on the left of the tank. I took those pictures couple of days ago and now windowlov is almost all dead and java fern is 3 times worse than shown on the pictures. i can't figure out what killing those plants as all my other plants are not affected and doing well for now. java fern should be the hardiest plant of all, but not in my case. I usually don't use any fertilizer but I use flourish tablets for amazon sword and thai hygrophilia. I was thinking to add Flourish excel but I don't think that it will help and don't think java fern needs it. My light is 1.8 watt per gallon my photo period is 6hrs and my watter parameters are:
GH - 180
KH - 40
PH - 7
NO2 - 0
NO3 - 30
Ammonia - 0
I have driftwood in the tank that I installed 3 weeks ago and my AC20 filter has carbon insert that I changed over the month ago. 
Any help in figuring out what killing my plants and how to save them is appreciated. Thanks


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

1.8 WPG of what kind of lighting? I am assuming CFL bulbs, as you have a 10 gallon aquarium.

It is strange to see that kind of die off in your ferns. Are the rhizomes getting sufficient light? I would try to prune back the dead/dying leaves, and see if the plant improves.


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## ppaskova (Apr 27, 2010)

Darkblade48 said:


> 1.8 WPG of what kind of lighting? I am assuming CFL bulbs, as you have a 10 gallon aquarium.
> 
> It is strange to see that kind of die off in your ferns. Are the rhizomes getting sufficient light? I would try to prune back the dead/dying leaves, and see if the plant improves.


Yes CFL - 2 Phillips, 9 watt each. I just trimmed windowlow on the left. It 4 times smaller than on the picture now. And waiting for results on windowlow on the left side of the tank and on separate pictures. But java fern on right side is much worse now. I removed affected leafs but it's not helping much as new ones getting affected on daily bases. Just yesterday I planted a small bush of java fern from one of top leafs and today two of the four leafs of fresh newly planted small bush already affected !!!


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## Will (Jul 24, 2008)

Could this be a chemical attack from another plant in your aquarium? I forget what this rare phenomenon is called.


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## waj8 (Jun 30, 2010)

I don't know what is going on. Take a careful look at the roots of the plants. Maybe there is a fungus or other growth on the roots of the ferns. If it's going to spread like that I would toss everything that looks affected. You might want to consider tossing the Carbon. I don't know of any purpose to it. Although I think this die off is not a nutrient deficiency your plants could be under the weather and more susceptible to disease due to a lack of some nutrient. Your plants do look rather pale but maybe it's the lighting. It's certainly not a Nitrate deficiency. A tiny bit of micronutrient fertilizer might make the plants more robust and more disease resistant. 

I don't really think this is the problem but your light level is also rather low, even for Java fern. The watts per gallon rule with that type of lighting is pretty meaningless. Could the lamps be quite old? With all the shading going on and older lamps maybe there is just not as much light as there used to be which will also weaken the plants. CFLs do not maintain light output nearly as well some of the other fluorescent lamps.


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## ppaskova (Apr 27, 2010)

Well the only two other plants that I still have in my tank are amazon sword that i have there for 6 months and only a month ago it Finlay started to grow and hygrophilia that I introduced 3 months ago and it was growing nicely since then. Could they be sucking nutregents from ferns ? Also My light bulbs around 4 months old. When I had stronger light like 3 watt per gallon it introduced so much algae in 1 month that I had to reduce the light and introduce algae fighting crue !!! Even today with my light if I increase the photo period by 1 hr I'll get triple the algae in 2 days !!!!
The only other solution I could think of is to remove affected lifts (which is at the moment more than 50% of my plants) and introduce little on Flourish Excel (2ml) next watter change and use excel every watter change (which is weekly) for a while. Any other suggestions ?


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## waj8 (Jun 30, 2010)

Most plants grow much better with a carbon source like Excel. I think your lighting is fine. I just thought it might be really old lamps. I am pretty sure a small amount of micronutrients would not hurt either. You don't mention adding those. If there aren't any, in the water column then the plants could probably use a little bit.

Whatever is wrong with your plants does not look like a deficiency but adding Excel and micronutrients could help to strengthen your plants to fight off disease.


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## ppaskova (Apr 27, 2010)

waj8 said:


> Whatever is wrong with your plants does not look like a deficiency but adding Excel and micronutrients could help to strengthen your plants to fight off disease.


What is micronutrients (never saw them) and where to purchase them and how they look like (website will be helpful) ?


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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

How's your water change?
Also do you dose any ferts at all?

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## waj8 (Jun 30, 2010)

The cheapest source is the hydroponics store. You can mix a couple tsp. of dry micronutrients in 500 ml. of water and put maybe a 1/4 of a cap full twice a week. You need so little though, you could buy some premixed brand name stuff. Learn about it at http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/allinone.htm On the other hand if you do buy a tub of micronutrient you will have a life time supply.

Remember that your tank is not like that guys tank or my tank. You have much less light so be careful with your fertilizer. I am just suggesting maybe a 1/4 the dosage per gallon of a high light tank. Excel will help with algae problems as well.

I do wonder why your Nitrates are so high. How many root tabs are you putting in your tank? With your water change schedule, I would expect them to be lower.


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## ppaskova (Apr 27, 2010)

Zebrapl3co said:


> How's your water change?
> Also do you dose any ferts at all?


Watter change 25%-30% once a week.
Yes I had 2 tablets of Flourish under gravel, now I put one more under the one with problem on the picture


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## ppaskova (Apr 27, 2010)

waj8 said:


> I do wonder why your Nitrates are so high. How many root tabs are you putting in your tank? With your water change schedule, I would expect them to be lower.


I had 2 root tabs of Flourish before the problem started (one in the front middle, under java Moss and one on the right near amazon sword) and when problem started I put one more on the left near the affected plant. My watter changes are once a week 25%-30%. I think my nitrates are hight because I feed my fish twice a day, when I use to feed it once a day they wore = 0 but my fish went after my RCS. Now i have bigger load of fish and they don't bother my shrimps.


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## ppaskova (Apr 27, 2010)

Will Hayward said:


> Could this be a chemical attack from another plant in your aquarium? I forget what this rare phenomenon is called.


Possible from Hygrophilia as it is around all affected plants ?


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## ppaskova (Apr 27, 2010)

It looks like that in 1 week I'll not have any plants in my fish tank. I trimmed half of my plants today as they were affected. Now my amazon sword plant affected as well.


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## qwerty (Dec 15, 2009)

I believe what Will is referring to is allelopathy, if you want to look into that as a possibility.

But I'm pretty sure plant species produce specific allelochemicals to target other specific plant species. That is, a plant wont randomly decide it doesn't like another plant, and then formulate chemicals to kill a plant it's usually perfectly fine with.

Since these are such common plants, and if I'm correct, then I think you'd hear a lot more complaints about hygrophilia and java ferns being unable to share the same aquarium. So I don't think this is the cause, personally.

I'm not sure what the cause may be though. Sorry I can't be of more help.


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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

Can you take another picture. I am thinking that the plants was just shocked because of the newly introduced ferts. Usually, new leaves regrow. As long as you do water change, that should help avoid buildup of any chemicals.
So is it still spreading?
How about CO2? have you recently introduce that?

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## ppaskova (Apr 27, 2010)

Zebrapl3co said:


> Can you take another picture. I am thinking that the plants was just shocked because of the newly introduced ferts. Usually, new leaves regrow. As long as you do water change, that should help avoid buildup of any chemicals.
> So is it still spreading?
> How about CO2? have you recently introduce that?


Yes it still spreading but at much slower paste. I put 2Ml of Flourish Excel 2 weeks ago and planning to put 1Ml more today. Ferts ware introduces after the outbreak is happen to slow it down. I'm attaching new pictures as well (You still can see some lite brown spots on some leafs, specially on java fern on the left side or second picture).


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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

Maybe you should slow down a bit on the fert. It might be a case of over fertilized that is causing the brown. Java fern have a tendency to turn brown and regrow new leaves when the water chemistry changed. Keep looking for new grow from the roots or the end of the leaves. When that happens, pluck that out and cut off the old leaves and replant the smaller new growth.
All of your other plants seems to be doing fine though.

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## ppaskova (Apr 27, 2010)

Zebrapl3co said:


> Maybe you should slow down a bit on the fert. It might be a case of over fertilized that is causing the brown. Java fern have a tendency to turn brown and regrow new leaves when the water chemistry changed. Keep looking for new grow from the roots or the end of the leaves. When that happens, pluck that out and cut off the old leaves and replant the smaller new growth.
> All of your other plants seems to be doing fine though.


No this is not a propagating brown, this is light brown of the decease. And it will not grow new leafs it will die eventually. Minute i replant new smaller leafs they getting infected immediately (next day)


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## EDGE (May 20, 2006)

I have had this happen before. Usually from a sudden change in pH and or sudden change in electrical conductivity of the water. The melting brown is not from nutrient deficiency but an excess of. like fertilizer burn (spike in electrical conductivity). There is something in that particular corner that caused the problem. The regular java fern looks fine on the other side.

most of the older section would probably melt off. Just give the plant some tender love and care and let the plant recover on its own. Don't add too much fertilizer to the tank.

Do a large water change to reset the water parameter.


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