# gourami



## tom g (Jul 8, 2009)

why is my gourami acting weird he/she is lying on the bottom of the tank kind of lethargic justwhen i think hes dead hes swimming around like a champ eating with the rest of them , im not sure if i should take him our evrytime i think it he starts swimming any ideas 
let me know 
thanks 
tom


----------



## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

tom g said:


> why is my gourami acting weird he/she is lying on the bottom of the tank kind of lethargic justwhen i think hes dead hes swimming around like a champ eating with the rest of them , im not sure if i should take him our evrytime i think it he starts swimming any ideas
> let me know
> thanks
> tom


What kind of gourami, is it male or female, does it have any signs of damage, any previous symptoms, lying on side or stomach or what? Breathing normally? Bloated? Poo looks ok? How long? Filtration? Temp? pH? Cleaning sched? Tank mates? How old?


----------



## ksimdjembe (Nov 11, 2006)

isnt this the tank with the (originally) two male honey gouramis. is this the tank you are refering to?
sometimes fish just need more of their own kind.


----------



## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

ksimdjembe said:


> sometimes fish just need more of their own kind.


Colisa do not like to live in groups. They like to have their own territory and associate with other Colisa only when necessary, like for mating. If you put a male and female together, or two females, or four, you will find that they do not particularly enjoy each other's company. They merely tolerate eachother. When it comes down to specific plants they want to claim as their territory, males and females alike will chase and bite eachother. Only a pair that is in the process of mating or courting will be happy together for any length of time. As soon as they're done they will hate each other for a while again.
You do not know the issue, don't understand the species, and have no base of information to offer any kind of assistance. Nobody does. The OP didn't give enough info. Fish do not exhibit this behavior due to loneliness.


----------



## tom g (Jul 8, 2009)

sorry i have not been online that often to get back to u guys who have responded to me thanks .
it is a honey gourami i think its a dwarf gourami its tiny about 1.5 in the tank mates it has are are three swordtails , amano shrimps and a few crystel shrims , some mts snails , i clean the tank once a week i willl get the water conditions tonite and post . the mate to the gourami passed away a few weeks ago . i do not see it bloated has been eating ,i put some aquarium salt in the water as per a prev post due to bloating hoping that , would of cured ,i will post water qualities tonite 
thanks for help 
tom


----------



## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

Ygpm . . . . . . . . .


----------



## ksimdjembe (Nov 11, 2006)

again, AquariAM, your rudeness knows no bounds. Though, really, I've given up caring what you write. 
I was pretty sure that you would jump on what I wrote. I did not mean 
they prefer their own kind = they like to be in tanks in shoals. 

As in the original post, I'd simply offered up some experience. I have seen in the past, fish that were in a pair situation, or those that have associated with each other, possibly forming a pair bond, will experience a withdrawn (trying to not anthropomorphizing too much here) or low activity level and can be less interested in eating, swimming, etc. 

Though from the more recent post it sounds like the little fish could have died of almost anything - poor genetics, bacteria infection, slight water quality issue, or the idea I proposed. 

Just my $0.02. take it or leave it, but (coughAquariAMcough) try to be more constructive, instead of just assuming many other member ideas are arbitrarily incorrect.


----------



## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

* again, AquariAM, your rudeness knows no bounds.*

I'm trying to help the guys fish. If someone offers erroneous information, I need to make note of that. 
Was it rude? Ya. A bit. It's quite frustrating when nobody else is asking the right questions. 
You can't make a diagnosis without at least 90% of the picture. If you have 10, like in this thread, you're shooting in the dark.
Might make things worse. Might do nothing. Might kill the fish. Might fix it. Who knows?

* Though, really, I've given up caring what you write. *

Clearly not. You wrote this huge response.

*I was pretty sure that you would jump on what I wrote. I did not mean 
they prefer their own kind = they like to be in tanks in shoals. *

I didn't jump on you.

As in the original post, I'd simply offered up some experience. I have seen in the past, fish that were in a pair situation, or those that have associated with each other, possibly forming a pair bond, will experience a withdrawn (trying to not anthropomorphizing too much here) or low activity level and can be less interested in eating, swimming, etc.

Fish will not sit on the bottom, bloat, and flop on their side due to depression. They will exhibit reduced appetite, mobility, color, agression. They may position themselves vertically in a corner. They may sit on the bottom. But they will not exhibit the symptoms proposed by the OP. Colisa particularly care very little whether they are alone or not. I say this from four years of very heavy gourami keeping experience.

*
Though from the more recent post it sounds like the little fish could have died of almost anything - poor genetics, bacteria infection, slight water quality issue, or the idea I proposed. *

Only due to lack of info by the OP. Making any diagnosis with the skeletal information provided is pointless.

*Just my $0.02. take it or leave it, but (coughAquariAMcough) try to be more constructive, instead of just assuming many other member ideas are arbitrarily incorrect. 
*

Arbitrarily, eh? Listen. If I were on a board for cats, and somebody said "My cat can't walk. It's really bloated. It's laying on its side and it's all screwed up"
I wouldn't say some moron comment like "Some cats need more cats around to feel better". What's the point? Do you think you have the experience to actually SOLVE this problem for Tom G if you have all the pieces? If so, get the pieces. Don't just say things like that and waste time. Depression causes behavioural changes. Not bloating. That's like first six months of fish keeping knowledge.
When I know something's incorrect, I say it. When I don't know, I say I don't know. When I need more info, I say I need more info.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________

What's really screwed up here is that it's been 72 hours. We have a fish suffering, bloated, laying on the bottom. To make it worse, it's a fish that breathes oxygen from the atmosphere, so it has to force itself up.

Nobody's tried to make it a comfortable place to rest near the surface. We still don't have pictures, water parameters, anything.

I have to ask, how much do some people care if their fish are sick? I saw what looked like a tiny subcutaneous cyst on a Paracyprichromis a week ago. I spent five hours going through libraries of photos, diagnosis, people's stories, trying to figure out what it was. Finally it turned out to have been a very unusual injury due to being pecked by another fish. Since the fish are translucent, the damage, though slight, was visible in an unusual way, so I figured out what it was.

Don't care enough to sacrifice a night? Cool. Most don't. But get it fixed the next day. Don't have a camera? Buy one used for 20 bucks. Borrow one. Whatever. Don't buy a test kit if you don't want to. Take your water to a responsible LFS.

None of this takes 72 hours.

Does it make me an a##hole to be a responsible fishkeeper? I'm not the first person to get angry at other people's apparent apathy for the suffering of tropical animals that can not defend themselves. Cichlidgrrl flipped out a couple of months ago and left over similar circumstances.

_ All of you, before you pass judgement:_
_
If someone posted that their dog or cat was suffering in this manner and had done little or nothing 72 hours to remedy it, would you lose it? Would you scream at them? I guarantee that person would have received some incredibly vicious comments. Especially if that person had three other cats. 
Give me a logical reason why this is different. Because the gourami is five dollars? Because there are no laws around the treatment of fish? They don't usually live 15+ years like many cats? What? Do you just not care?_

What kind of *board* do you want guys? Do we all want to walk around being really sensitive to what other people say and getting our feelings hurt and make this some kind of coddling circle? Do we want to just go "Aww that's too bad". "Maybe if you paint the back blue it'll be happy".

Or do you want this to be a place where people force eachother to strive for greatness in their fish's health, nutrition, water quality, and well being? That's what a fish board is. If I'm the only one who aims to make GTAA into such a place, tell me, and I'll disappear faster than a rich woman's pool boy when her husband gets home from work early.


----------



## BillD (Jun 5, 2006)

Quote by AquariAM: When I know something's incorrect, I say it. When I don't know, I say I don't know. When I need more info, I say I need more info.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________

This is too funny. Also untrue. You have often expressed an opinion as fact, and dispensed bad advice.


----------



## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

BillD said:


> Quote by AquariAM: When I know something's incorrect, I say it. When I don't know, I say I don't know. When I need more info, I say I need more info.
> 
> _______________________________________________________________________________________________________
> 
> This is too funny. Also untrue. You have often expressed an opinion as fact, and dispensed bad advice.


If that's the case I appologize but I don't recall anything like that in the last two years, at least.


----------



## BillD (Jun 5, 2006)

You forget the bad advice with regard to heaters a few weeks ago?


----------



## TBemba (Jan 11, 2010)

What about


AquariAM said:


> If you put a pleco or any kind of snail with 99% of rift lake cichlids you'll end up with a shreded pleco and shreded snails. It is not ethical.


bad advice

" Thread here ?


----------



## ksimdjembe (Nov 11, 2006)

AquariAM - You keep cats in fish tanks?! What are you talking about?


----------



## Joeee (Apr 3, 2010)

Such a bother, all of you. If you have issues with how one communicates then please do notify them through the use of the private messaging on these forums. The reason I am not sending individual messages is because there are simply too many people on this one thread to message and I am much too lazy. It is so troublesome for me to try and learn about gouramis while noticing most of this thread is an argument.


----------



## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

TBemba said:


> What about
> 
> bad advice
> 
> " Thread here ?


That was excellent advice. It's better to be safe than sorry. There is POTENTIAL for issues putting a pleco in ANY rift lake tank with very few exceptions. Is it better to say "Speed limit 100" or "Speed limit 100 except when it's really dry and there's no traffic and you're on a straight away. Then you can do 140". It's much easier to follow a few rules that are right 90% of the time. I even said in my post that it was only true 90% of the time and gave examples of situations where it was not true that you should not add a pleco to a rift lake tank.



BillD said:


> You forget the bad advice with regard to heaters a few weeks ago?


What, to use a single unit instead of two? I stand by it.


----------



## BillD (Jun 5, 2006)

AquariAM said:


> What, to use a single unit instead of two? I stand by it.


It was to use a single oversized unit instead of two. Bad advice.


----------



## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

BillD said:


> It was to use a single oversized unit instead of two. Bad advice.


The unit wasn't over sized but I did suggest a single unit. There are arguments on both sides of 1 vs 2 heaters.


----------



## BillD (Jun 5, 2006)

AquariAM said:


> The unit wasn't over sized but I did suggest a single unit. There are arguments on both sides of 1 vs 2 heaters.


According to Jager it is over sized by 50%. There may be argument, or differences of opinion, but I have yet to see someone post that their 2 undersized heaters failed and cooked their fish. I have seen a scary number of posts where one heater, including Jager has cooked fish. It appears that modern heaters fail in the on position with far too much frequency.


----------



## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

BillD said:


> According to Jager it is over sized by 50%. There may be argument, or differences of opinion, but I have yet to see someone post that their 2 undersized heaters failed and cooked their fish. I have seen a scary number of posts where one heater, including Jager has cooked fish. It appears that modern heaters fail in the on position with far too much frequency.


Ok, so change your heater once a year and you reduce the risk of failure. I'm pretty sure absolute negligence is not the same thing as making a hardware recommendation which, honestly, is on one side of what is still an unsettled argument. The 1 vs 2 heater thing is far from settled. I've never had a heater stick, I've never cooked fish. I've had about 25 heaters, usually oversize slightly. I change every heater 1x a year and sell the used ones super cheap.


----------



## BillD (Jun 5, 2006)

So if you had a heater fail in 6 months would you then replace your heaters every 5 months? You must have a lot more money then me. I have a couple of heaters I use that are 40 years old. Regardless, just because you haven't cooked any fish, is no reason to advise someone to buy a heater 50% larger than necessary.
As far as the 1 or 2 heater argument, a combination of two heaters that are individually sufficient to heat a tank will not cook the fish unless both fail, while one heater that is 50% larger than necessary, as per your recommendation, might if it were to fail in the on position.
There is a guy on Tropical Fish Centre forum who might take comfort in your advice about heaters. He lost over $500 of corys to a new Jager that failed. Eheim did replace the heater, and threw in a cannister but that still didn't cover the loss of his fish.
One last thing; why would you recommend a heater brand you felt compelled to replace on an annual basis?


----------



## Ciddian (Mar 15, 2006)

Do you guys wanna start a new thread on this heater issue? FYI Aquariam has a suspension.


----------



## Darkside (Sep 14, 2009)

TBemba said:


> What about
> 
> bad advice
> 
> " Thread here ?


I stand by my rift lake/pleco stance.


----------



## Sagittarius-Aquarius (Oct 30, 2009)

I didn't get my 2 cents in!
This is a retort to whoever said fish don't like being in pairs. I once saw a male and female betta live together. The two didn't fight or fin nip or spawn, they just swam together. Neither of them had unexplained wounds at any point in time. One day, the male died of disease, and the female didn't. She just swam around, and eventually became lethargic at times. She didn't succumb to illness, she just laid there. 

Bettas are aggressive. The male should've pummeled the female, or tried to spawn with her. Yet they lived in harmony for a long time. Just goes to show you that every aquarist offers advice based on experience. Not everything occurs by the books.

That's all.


----------



## Ciddian (Mar 15, 2006)

I think its more of the reason if...

I just saw your post about male and female bettas living together... So I go out and buy a 'girlfriend' for my male betta and she ends up shredding his fins, or he slaughters her.. etc etc..

My I hurt fish from someones 1 fluke instance. Just because you might have had one very calm male and one calm female doesn't mean that will always work out.

In the long term, you want to give advice that is well proven and helpful to anyone who might read it. 

In the end its just a forum were anyone can advise you to do anything.. Its up to the reader to research as much as possible and they pick what they feel is best.


----------



## TBemba (Jan 11, 2010)

Ciddian;118985 FYI Aquariam has a suspension.[/QUOTE said:


> It has been pretty nice around here lately


----------



## Sagittarius-Aquarius (Oct 30, 2009)

I would agree with the comment you've made, Ciddian. I'm not advising anyone try that, ever! I'm just mentioning some fish break the species profile; don't go on advice as if it is 100% fact, and don't ridicule someone for not agreeing. It's a little light reading for our suspended member, I guess.


----------



## Ciddian (Mar 15, 2006)

yup I agree.. I find, the hardest thing for people online is to just accept that everyone will not do things exactly the same as you. You just need to walk away.. Internet fights are just retarded, debate is good an excepted but just arguing the same stuff back and forth is a waste of time.

Sorry for the derail there OP.


----------

