# My try at ADA tank.



## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

OK, here we go. Sorry about the mess earlier. But I've had limited time to do my upload. This is going to be a pretty long post and work today at the office was hectic.

Anyway, I've bought a piece of equipement here a piece there over the pass 3 years now. But never did had the chance to put everything together. So now I finally decide to give it a try. With out wasting more time, I go throught what I recently did.









Here is the start of everything. Empty tank, 15G, seamless top and curved front. I think these are the typical early generation of ADA tank look-a-like. Not the real deal though. They have yet to be available here. (That is, until yesterday. See link: click here!)









I am using Seachem flourite black for this tank. I drop 2 bags in there.









Take your pick. Steal your kid's play sand shovel or use the expensive planter's kit to even and speard your gravels around. Honest to god, the play sand shovel was better.









Huh? How did I end up with 3 inches of expensive dirt!









Check the bag. Oh yeah, this Flourite here have more dirt than Eco-complete. Which was originally my choice of gravels.









After taking out 1/2 a bag. I get 2". OK, that's better.









All evenly spread out.









Let's add water. Oh, I didn't rinse the media when I dump everything in earlier.









Let's add the light ... uhm. That's not really what I have in mind. But these light's I bought for $7.99 at Canadian tires a while back. And have been wondering if they will work. I think they will, so I might as well try it out. From the mail order, I got a nice set of PC light with moon lighting on the way. That was last week. Then they screw me over by telling me that they have no stock after I got half of the order in. I am still pissoff by that, but they send me another set of T5 light due to arrive today. But in the mean time, I get to experiment, and I can say it works.









Bulbs on, 2 dollarama $1 light and one $3 philips. All 6500K or something like that.









Put the lights down.

... will continue tomorrow. Boss asking me why I am still at work after hours ....

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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

Continue ...









Let there be light ... hmm ... doesn't look pretty with the flash from the camera.









There, a bit better.









Move the light around and drop in a sponge filter to suck up all that dirt.









The original box ...









Now for the purdy stuff. I stole this second hand ADA lily pipes deal at half price from some one who was leaving the hobby. This was imported from HK I believe. He also had an ADA pincette and sissor set that he want to sell too. But it took every penny from me just to buy the ADA pipes. It was at 1/2 price too. I really wish I had the money because I would've taken that set too .... even though I already had another planter's set.









Here's what it looks like with it installed.









Close up of the outflow.









Close up of the inflow.









Two days later. Wow, that sponge really sucks (in a good way).

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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

2 weeks later ... yea, I know, really sloooow. 
- I added a heater, and bought some leopard frog pleco but no where to put them. That seems to be one of my greater flaw. I can't seem to leave an empty tank alone for more that 1 week.
- Also added some grade A CRS, but 2 died on me already. I don't think the tank was really all that cycled yet. Another thing, the Flourite black turns out to be ph neutral after all. So this is not a good CRS breeding tank.
- I still haven't work up a layout yet. Can't decide what to do. But I did bought some cuba to try it out on the lights. It didn't work too well because there was no CO2.
- So I dump a ladder diffuser in there and go DIY CO2, while I shop around for a CO2 injection kit.
- The DIY was screwed up. It didn't start to gas out until the 3rd day. Meanwhile, I dump an extra 1/2 tsp of yeast on the 2nd day. By the time the 9th day turns around, it fizzled and stop gassing. Man, I must have been really out of practice with DIY. All the while, the cuba have been wilting.
- 4th week since setup: Finally gotten a second batch of DIY CO2 working. This time I use dechlorinated water instead of straight from the tab. It started gassing in 6 hours. Now I am really back in business. But I lost 1/2 of the cuba already.









Close up of one of the grade A CRS. As you can see from the leaves of the nana petite, algae has started to grow. This is because I was dosing with all in one PPMD. Which was a mistake as it's no where close to tailored for this tank. (I've just read some of my old ADA articles I've collected over the years. Apparently, newly start up tanks doesn't need much of any nitrate, phosphate and irons. That's just great ... I've been dosing my tank like it was a well established tank. Which explains why algae was growing faster than normal here. Usually, algae sets in on the second month.)









Lastly, this is what I have up next as soon as I get my CO2 injection kit setup. An atomizer diffuser is a bit better than the ladder diffuser. One reason being that it's a bit more efficient at diffusing CO2. Second reason is that it's much small, takes up less space and not too visible.

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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

$$$!

Looks awesome though.


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## Fishfinder (Feb 17, 2008)

Looking better once ur soup subsided  
And what are those lily pipes? CO2 diffuser?


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

Fishfinder said:


> Looking better once ur soup subsided
> And what are those lily pipes? CO2 diffuser?


I think the lily pipes are just glass intake/output tubes for the canister filter. It's supposed to be more invisible than the typical green Eheim in/output (or in this case, the filter appears to be a Rena Filstar? I actually haven't seen one in real life before ) The CO2 diffuser is the glass thing in the last picture with the ceramic disk.

What size tank is it? I also like the idea of clip on lights! Very ingenious lighting scheme. Also, where did you get the ADA stuff? Lastly, for your CO2 diffuser, I have a similar one, but smaller (suitable for a nano). I was just wondering if you were planning to use pressurized CO2, or DIY CO2? I was going to try using it with DIY CO2 (though it might not generate enough pressure...) but I haven't even figured out how to get a suction cup around the thing (there isn't a knob, like some of the Rhinox diffusers!)


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## Tabatha (Dec 29, 2007)

*Drools* I'm so excited for you! I can't wait to see how this progresses!


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## holocron (Mar 12, 2006)

nice! excited to see how it goes. Also interested to see what method of co2 you're going to use.

I never had luck getting DIY co2 to work with those glass diffusers, not enough pressure.

keep us posted!


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## Tabatha (Dec 29, 2007)

holocron said:


> I never had luck getting DIY co2 to work with those glass diffusers, not enough pressure. keep us posted!


Really? We just started ours 2 weeks ago and it's going like gangbusters! You need to try different recipes to find out what works best for you. Last batch I used consisted of 1 & 1/2L warm water, 2 cups sugar & 1 tbsp yeast dissolved in warm water.


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## clock906 (Nov 22, 2007)

Really looking forward to see how it turns out...the clip on light looks very nice

You have any hard scape (rock/driftwood) planned out yet? I saw a small wood piece in the last 2 pic...are you going to add more?

holocron: I am using the glass pollen diffuser with DIY co2 too, and it works perfectly well, but mine takes close to 10 hrs to charge up enough pressure.


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

Tabatha said:


> Last batch I used consisted of 1 & 1/2L warm water, 2 cups sugar & 1 tbsp yeast dissolved in warm water.


Did you really mean 1 tablespoon of yeast? That seems like a lot to me (I usually put in 1/2 a teaspoon).



clock906 said:


> holocron: I am using the glass pollen diffuser with DIY co2 too, and it works perfectly well, but mine takes close to 10 hrs to charge up enough pressure.


Are you using the same glass pollen diffuser as Zebrapl3co? I'm curious how you attach it to the side of the tank when there's seemingly no where to attach a suction cup to


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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

Chris Stewart said:


> $$$!
> 
> Looks awesome though.


Not as expensive as it seems. Then most expensive stuff was second hand.



Darkblade48 said:


> ...or in this case, the filter appears to be a Rena Filstar? ....
> 
> What size tank is it? I also like the idea of clip on lights! Very ingenious lighting scheme. Also, where did you get the ADA stuff? Lastly, for your CO2 diffuser, I have a similar one, but smaller (suitable for a nano). ...


Darkblade48, I added my comments to the pictures. Hope I answered all your questions. Also, the Rena filter was actually running another tank sitting above this one. I am ussing an Ehiem 2215 for this tank.



Darkblade48 said:


> ...Are you using the same glass pollen diffuser as Zebrapl3co? I'm curious how you attach it to the side of the tank when there's seemingly no where to attach a suction cup to


You can buy the suction cups from the dollar store. I think the dollar store is called A-buck-of-two. But there are other suction cups for sale at the fish stores to hang on to the silicon tube under the water. I think those would work too. One problem with the dollar store ones is that you don't know if it'll leech chemicals into your tank.

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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

Keep us updated!


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## holocron (Mar 12, 2006)

hey Zeb,

you mentioned you got your lily pipes used... was that guy here in the GTA? I am looking at getting some ADA glassware and am trying to find a vendor.


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## gucci17 (Oct 11, 2007)

ohhh nice! It's looking good. I love ADA style tanks. Keep us posted!


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## Tabatha (Dec 29, 2007)

More pictures!!! Updates!


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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

holocron said:


> hey Zeb,
> 
> you mentioned you got your lily pipes used... was that guy here in the GTA? I am looking at getting some ADA glassware and am trying to find a vendor.


The person I got the used lily pipes from, I think it was at PN. Sorry, my brain is a bit fuzzy, it's been almost a year ago.

But the new ADA stuff, it's from a group order from chinaboy1021 at: here

I don't believe we have any ADA vendor on the east of Canada. But there is 1 Canadian ADA vendor over at Vancouver. I can't seem to remember where or who, but I do remember that it was pretty pointless to order through him/her because it will cost just about the same coming for the states.



Tabatha said:


> More pictures!!! Updates!


I am sorry to keep you hanging like this, it's spring time, and there is a ton of yardwork/out door cleaning for me to do. But I'll try to get some picts but nothing much was added though. But definately a bit of stuff for me to write up. There won't be much pictures but definately some stuff to write up ...
Then there's the fact that I saw this perfect deal for a 4' tank and I spent $400 on the tank, light and stuff. Now I am completely drained of money. So now I am in another money saving period again to save up enough money to buy a CO2 tank ... anyway, I see if I can post some thing up tomorrow.

On another related topic. Does any one have tips on how to hide a 4 feet CO2 tank from your wife/kids?

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## Grey Legion (Mar 20, 2006)

Ok here is my super silly question for the day: What does ADA mean ?


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## holocron (Mar 12, 2006)

ADA = aquarium design amano

http://www.adana.co.jp/index_e.php

Amano is pretty much at the top of the totem when it comes to planted tanks.


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## Grey Legion (Mar 20, 2006)

Ah, makes perfect sense now.

Thanks for clearing that up for me..


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## Tabatha (Dec 29, 2007)

Darkblade48 said:


> Did you really mean 1 tablespoon of yeast? That seems like a lot to me (I usually put in 1/2 a teaspoon).
> 
> Are you using the same glass pollen diffuser as Zebrapl3co? I'm curious how you attach it to the side of the tank when there's seemingly no where to attach a suction cup to


Yup, you may be right there, 1 tsp, not tbsp! However, it started reacting within an hour and is still going over a week later. Changing bottles really isn't a big deal either, I thought it would be nastier but it kinda smelled a little like beer, not as bad as they say.


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## mr.sandman (Mar 22, 2007)

Where did you get the CRS? Did they breed yet?


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## Brian (Mar 14, 2006)

There is a fellow who posted on PN that someone at [email protected] sells ADA products in Canada.


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

Brian said:


> There is a fellow who posted on PN that someone at [email protected] sells ADA products in Canada.


Chances are, that's the guy out in B.C.


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## mr.sandman (Mar 22, 2007)

The guy posted a few things before at bcaquaria.com.


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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

mr.sandman said:


> Where did you get the CRS? Did they breed yet?


I got the CRS from Lucky Aquarium. It's at Market village (Kennedy & Steels). There are a couple of Chinese malls there. So make sure you know which one it is.

They are grade A. Not easy to find. One of the grade A upgraded it self to A+, but still not good enough to be an S.

And, no they didn't breed. When I bought them, one of the female was holding too. But unfortunately, none survived.

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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

mr.sandman said:


> Where did you get the CRS? Did they breed yet?





Darkblade48 said:


> Chances are, that's the guy out in B.C.


Yes he is. There's only one in Canada. Here's more info: The place is called Golden Top Enterprise:
Mappy

Holocron, I take back what I said about it being the same price as shipping from the States. Another forum member kindly PM me and told me that his experience is that it's cheaper than shipping from the states. So you might want to try that out.

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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

OK more updates ...









Here's where we left off. The clip on lights works fine. It's proven that it works and can grow plants. However, I need to point out some obvious things here.
1) It's a spiral or straight PC bulb and it's pointed downward. This makes it depend heavily on rebounce/deflection to direct light into the tank. This makes it inefficient because you know that some light was lost due to deflection.
2) The reflector consist of a punny white paint. This does a horrible job of bouncing the light into the tank and much of the light intensity is lost. It's better than nothing, but still it's not efficient usage.
3) It's spot specific. I can see future use of targeting a specific spot to help promote growth in that target area. However, it fails spread the light evenly across the tank.

These three factors makes is hard to work with and knowing that I lost some of the wattage due to poor deflection is a constant nagging point for me.

So without any more rambling. My Corallife T5 lights finally arrived. It was supposed to be 65Watt compact light wih blue moon light. But I kind of got screwed because they told me that there's no stock until April. Still kind of pissed. But they did make it up by sending me 2 Corallife T5. So even though I didn't have any moon light and I paid a bit more for the corallife. I think T5 is much better than PC. 








As you can see and compare. The 10,000K + 6500K lighting makes a dramatic difference in colour and intensity. The camera doesn't take it in that well. But to the naked eye, it's the difference of dirty yellow to crystal clear water. I just solve another piece of Amano's puzzle. It seems that he uses specialty lighting to bring out that extra crystal clarity out of his tanks.









The gravel looks like it was shrinking. So I took another measurement. Looks like it did. Starting with 2" of gravel, it eventally settle down to a compacted 1.5". I guess I should've stay with 3" in the first place. Now I am going to have to some how add more in ...









Something of to make a note of. Plastic gloves and CO2 water don't mix. This was a pair of glove of the same colour. But after only using one glove for an hour of planting session. That glove changed colour and look like it's been used for 1 year. Kind of scarry. Hope it doesn't do that to the CRS's shells.









Another thing to note. Surprise surprise, I just lost all that transparency to dirty algae build up from the glass lilly pipe. This was just around 4 weeks after I put the glass lily in. Looks like I will have to religiously clean the glass lily every month as well. Now that kind of sucks.

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## gunnerx (Mar 20, 2008)

Seems to be a common issue with Lily pipes. I've read a lot of people on APC buying 2 sets so they can have a clean one in there all the time. The other problem with always having to clean the lily pipes is the increase of the chances of them breaking! Quite a bit of cash to crumble in your hands. 

However, I quite enjoy going through the posts at APC and drooling at all the amazing ADA tanks. I'll be keeping an eye on your progress.


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## mr.sandman (Mar 22, 2007)

I went to lucky aquarium last time and they were $15 each and I was like woah. Did you get a deal? 
To answer you lighting puzzle. My friend have a few ADA books and it shows that Amano would set up the tanks in a room with a large white background on the floor and the back. So it is like a large piece of white paper. Then he would have other lights that would point towards the backround. This is what makes the tank look brighter and clearer.


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## BlueEL (Feb 11, 2007)

Hey Zebrapl3co,

Wow it's a very nice setup. I am happy to see you finally got some higher grade CRS. Please save me some CRS babies for me. 

BTW, what is PH for that tank?


Zebrapl3co said:


> OK more updates ...


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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

Hi guys. I've finally gotten over my foul mood. So I'll do some more updates. Where was I ... oh yes ... the miserable part ...
My CO2 kit finally arrived, I went into debt to borrow money to buy my CO2 tank.
So here goes:








Transparent CO2 tube all the way from Malaysia.









Milwakee regulator, I wish I had order something better. There where problems getting it to run smoothly. It was very difficult to setup a constant pressure. Having spend 2 days seeing it go from 2 bubble per sec to 1 bubble per 10 seconds. I decide to increase it to 3 bubbles per sec. Sure enough it looks like it's finally running smothly.









Add a second set of T5 lights. That brings the tank to 56 watts on a 15G. I was really cranking things up. I double my ferts as well.









Here it is. Pretty bright, actually, it's really bright. Just like noon. But running at 10 hours a day.









The next day, I came back from work to see this. It was a disaster, it killed 4 of my leopard frog plecos and all of my grade A CRS. The pressure some how changed over night. It was pumping ~15 bubbles per second. All the inhabintants died of CO2 poisoning. To add insults on top of that, my plants weren't even pearling. Which would indicate that my ferts are no where close to being balanced.
So I learned a very big and expensive lesson. Never never add your fish until your planted tank is established and all the equipments are running smoothly. I did a ~%50 water change. Did I cry? Ofcourse not, real man don't cry. I do feel like putting my hands around my own neck and squeze really hard though.









Here is a second hand CO2 checker from dupla. I install it. Stick it to the tank and the next day, the suction cup came loose and the contents of the CO2 chemicals was all over the tank. Again, had my fish survived the CO2 poisoning. They would've drop dead from the chemicals from this mishap. This thing was a nice idea. But unfortunately, it has an unforgivable flaw, it can kill every fish in the tank. What a waste of my money. I did another ~%80 water change again.









On the third day since I added pressurized CO2. I have to remove the extra T5 lights. I think it was too much light. Algae was growing completely out of control. The dead pleco and CRS leaves an oily film on top of the tank. Add to that are some unknown chemicals from the CO2 checker. What a mess. I think it'll be weeks before I can add another living thing into this tank. And all the while, algae was grow out of control. I tried to remove them by hand, but I really need my little shrimps to do the fine removals. This is turning out to be a disaster. So now, algae has a free rein in my tank. On top of that, I also find a couple of MTS crawling around. It must have some how passed along from the clean up equipment or the net. It's going to be very very difficult to grow a carpet with MTS around. *sign* I may have to nuke this tank and start over again.









On a better note. I have notice that there was a slight improvement from the old Hagen ladder and the new one. The new one have a little tab for you to pull the suction cup loose. And the price is still the same. Way to go Hagen, keep your improvements coming.

That's all for now. I won't be posting for a while.

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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

mr.sandman said:


> I went to lucky aquarium last time and they were $15 each and I was like woah. Did you get a deal?
> To answer you lighting puzzle. My friend have a few ADA books and it shows that Amano would set up the tanks in a room with a large white background on the floor and the back. So it is like a large piece of white paper. Then he would have other lights that would point towards the backround. This is what makes the tank look brighter and clearer.


No, but I am sure if I stay to bargain for 15 mins or so, I would've end up with something. But I was in a hurry that day (actually, I have to go back to work).
And yes, I know a bit about doing a proper photo session. The clip-on light will be very hand when the time comes to do a proffesional photo shoot.



BlueEL said:


> Hey Zebrapl3co,
> 
> Wow it's a very nice setup. I am happy to see you finally got some higher grade CRS. Please save me some CRS babies for me.
> 
> BTW, what is PH for that tank?


Thanks, but they all died from the CO2 accident/(my stupidity)

As for the pH, it's some where on "too much". The dupla CO2 indicator kind of suck in a way that it only have 3 colour code. Too much, medium and too little CO2.

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## XbrandonX (Nov 22, 2007)

I'm really sorry that this happened to you and your little friends.  

I've been following this thread with great interest. 

I'm sure that the tank will be incredible and you'll look back on this tragedy as a valuable learning hurdle.

Keep up the great work!


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

Sorry to hear about your losses, I've heard good and bad things about the Milwaukee MA957 regulator...I guess yours is one of the bad 

Regarding:


Zebrapl3co said:


> Here is a second hand CO2 checker from dupla. I install it. Stick it to the tank and the next day, the suction cup came loose and the contents of the CO2 chemicals was all over the tank. Again, had my fish survived the CO2 poisoning. They would've drop dead from the chemicals from this mishap. This thing was a nice idea. But unfortunately, it has an unforgivable flaw, it can kill every fish in the tank. What a waste of my money. I did another ~%80 water change again.


There shouldn't be any "chemicals" in the CO2 drop checker other than a 4 dkH reference solution and also a few drops of bromothymol blue; this would be relatively harmless (compared to a CO2 overdose). In addition, drop checkers, in general, will only indicate the approximate level of CO2 in your tank (with a 4 dkH solution, yellow means > 30 ppm, green =~ 30 ppm, blue means < 30 ppm). They also take some time to catch up to the CO2 levels (about 2 - 4 hours, depending on the surface area exposed). However, their price definitely beats that of a CO2 monitor...

As for the suction cup problem, you can see what I did with my DIY drop checker in this post here (shameless plug):

http://gtaaquaria.com/forum/showpost.php?p=16736&postcount=4


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## gucci17 (Oct 11, 2007)

WOAH....I haven't checked this thread in about a week or so. All this has happened since? I'm really sorry for your losses. If it's still possible, could you return the milwakee regulator to the supplier? I would inform them of your losses and see if they will exchange or refund your regulator. One thing that might help your algae issue would be running your lights for 8hrs instead of 10hrs. Give it a try to see if it will atleast slow down the algae growth. I find that with even with my lights on for 7hrs/day the plants are growing too quickly for me already. Instead of starting over, why not nuke it with hydrogen peroxide? Since you are not planning on putting in any livestock at the moment.


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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

Heh, you guys are great. Thanks for the encouragement.

Since then, I'll started dosing Excel and spot treated certain places with hydrogen peroxide. Yes, after looking at the empty tank for a few days. I realize that I can get away by cheating with hydrogen peroxide. But I keep it to the very minimum though. I still plan to put shrimps in this tank. So I don't want any lingering chemicals to create a death tank.
I think taking a way one of the T5 strip light really helps. I've been running only 1 strip of T5 lights and the cuba and every is growing very well.
This is the first time I've play around with T5 lighting and I have to admit, these little light are very efficient in terms of light and energy efficiency.

What I did since then. I blew a sigh of relieve after reading Darkblade48's post that the CO2 chemicals aren't poisonous. So I stop adding hydrogen peroxide and added a few cherry shrimps. We'll see how that goes. The algae was keep in check so far from using only Excel as a fert. However, I plan to start dosing with PPMD again soon. But I have a funny feeling that once I start doing that, algae will break lose again. I think there is something really wrong with the PPMD method though. We'll see ...
Thanks for reading and sharing your comments, guys.

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## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

Zebrapl3co said:


> Yes, after looking at the empty tank for a few days. I realize that I can get away by cheating with hydrogen peroxide. But I keep it to the very minimum though.


Just to let you know, hydrogen peroxide does decompose with time, especially with all the organics that it can oxidize inside a biological environment. It is unlikely it will stay around for a long time creating a "death trap" 



Zebrapl3co said:


> However, I plan to start dosing with PPMD again soon. But I have a funny feeling that once I start doing that, algae will break lose again. I think there is something really wrong with the PPMD method though. We'll see ...
> Thanks for reading and sharing your comments, guys.


I'm not sure what you mean by PPMD? There is no such fertilizing regime, as far as I know; unless you are referring to PMDD (poor man's dupla/dosing drops)? If so, it's a pretty outdated method that relies on the misconception that low phosphate levels will prevent algae (*not* true!).


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## mr.sandman (Mar 22, 2007)

Any updates?


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## Ciddian (Mar 15, 2006)

zebra, i am so sorry i missed your update! I am extreamly sorry about your loss... **hugs**


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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

Thanks Cid, even though I got over it. That still makes me feel better.
Sorry, guys, it's was spring and I am force to do gardenning every weekend. So I"ve haven't had time to play around with the tank. I've gotten an excellent plan package from JRS. There was a lot more plants than I anticipated so I stuff them all in this tank for now. Let me take a photo of this ....(picks up a camera and run down to the basement) .... 








there.
It'll be temporary out of service for now, while I get my 75 G setup, and buy a Manifold to share the CO2. Then I can transfer these plants out and move this tank as well because I have to start planning to build a fish room. Above all this, I need to look for some nice rocks to hardscape this tank. I still haven't figure out the design, but what I really want is a simple rolling plain of cuba carpet with some rocks on a hill. Seems simple enough as a start.
Then I might find use for the fissidens on a driftwood. I also discouver that I can't do mini bushes with the cuba as well, so maybe I"ll experiement with that.
Anyway, that's all for now. Thank you for reading this thread.

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