# I need some help with the Tank



## box1992 (May 17, 2013)

Hi guys, I have a 29 gallon tank, the starter kit ones. I have had it for 4-5 years I would say. I have been on and off with it. Still do the water changes weekly, but when it comes to adding more stock or plants, I haven't been very consistent with it. I really want to get some more fish in there, and get more plants. I currently have regular gravel.

The plants are:
- 1 Amazon sword
- dwarf hairgrass that is slowly making a carpet, started getting runners after - adding some liquid.
And I forgot the last plant name that is in there. 
As well as a really small java fern.

The fish:
7 harlequin rasboras
1 black skirt tetra (been there for over 5 years, got it from my uncle from his tank when he moved)
1 black neon tetra (same thing as above)
1 female dwarf gourami
2 cardinal tetras
1 green neon tetra
1 bloodfin tetra
2 guppies.

I am looking to make a planted aquarium, with schools of fish and a couple bigger fish as the center piece. I really want either a GBR or a boesemani rainbow (I heard that might not be possible)

Any suggestions would really help

Thanks!


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

I would say the tank is too small for rainbows, I believe they are active fish that would do best in a 48 inch long tank. Not sure what a GBR is.

The main problem I see is you have just 1 or 2 each of different schooling fish. Bare minimum for schooling fish is 3 of the same type.

Because you have a large amount of types of fish, you might be best off trying to trade some and concentrating on just 1 to 3 types of schooling fish, pick your favorites and have minimum 3 of each, better to go with 5 or more though.

If you want to have a serious planted tank, you need a good substrate. There are lots of options, such as substrates that are designed for plants, or doing what I do, potting soil on the bottom covered with some gravel.


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## box1992 (May 17, 2013)

Thanks, Ye I figured the rainbows would not work, was just hoping. And german blue ram is the other fish. I want to focus on harlequin rasboras for sure, maybe the cardinal tetras because they look so good. Unfortunately, completely changing the substrate from gravel to soil or sand won't be possible. Because it will be too expensive, and my parents won't be pleased. Is there a way to take out some gravel at a time and add soil/sand? or does it have to be done all at once?


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## darkangel66n (May 15, 2013)

Dwarf neon blue rainbows would work but as someone has said you have to many 1 and 2 ofs. I would recomend just adding more of some of the ones you have and watch them shine like you never thought possible. At least 6 for each group would be my goal.


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## box1992 (May 17, 2013)

would I not be over stocking though? 

7 rasbora
6 cardinal
6 bloodfin
6 black skirt
1 dwarf gourami


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

Try looking at this site, it is pretty helpful for determining how many of what type of fish you might keep in a given size tank. Though it tends to underestimate on shrimp.. shrimp don't add as much bioload as fish do.

http://www.aqadvisor.com/

I think what others were trying to suggest is that instead of having only one or two of many species, pick one or two species you like best and have at least 3 to 5 of those species.

Schooling fish are happiest with at least a few others of their own species to swim with. Though they might swim along with species than their own, they are not 'with' the other species. Sort of like the cliques in school. The jocks hang with the jocks, the pretty people with the pretty people, and so on. While they might all walk to school on the same path, they are not 'together', or supportive of the other groups. If that makes sense ?

If you really want greater numbers of fish, you'd need to stick to very small fish species.. they call them nano fish now. With some of these, you can have more individual fish, but it would mean selling or trading off the fish you have now to make space for them.

Celestial Pearl Danios are one, Chili rasboras are another, both quite small. Chilis are very colourful, red, very pretty in a planted tank. Glowlight Danios are also small and bright against plants.

You don't necessarily have to change the substrate. It's true gravel is not the best for plants, but if you add enough fertilizers,[ don't overdose ! ] maybe some Excel, if you don't want to go with C02 of any kind, and use some fert tabs for plants like swords, you should be able to grow many plants well enough even in plain gravel. The main thing is to provide enough light and food to support the plants you choose. Research the species so you will know which ones can tolerate what you have to offer them. Many grow reasonably well in low light, so you don't HAVE to upgrade lighting to grow plants. Just don't expect high light plants to thrive if you can't offer high light.

You can also have a few bottom swimming fish along with those that occupy the middle and top of the tank. Corydoras or kuhli loaches, for example. As with many fish, they both like their own company. Don't get big Cory species, and get a minimum of 3 of one species, 6 is better, but 3 is ok. Or you might consider getting a few Ghost or Amano shrimp instead of bottom swimmers. Both these shrimp are nearly see through, having little body colour, but there are also many dwarf shrimp species that do have colours. Cherry shrimp or one of their many colour variants can be lovely additions to a planted tank. Don't mix colours or you will end up with invisible brown shrimp like the original wild species.

Shrimp make great clean up crew and they don't add nearly as much bioload as fish do. Cherry shrimp, even though some of the babies will be eaten by fish, if you start with a decent number of them, you should have some babies survive to grow up. As with all Neocaridina shrimp, they have babies that look exactly like the adults, only very tiny.

Ghost shrimp are also able to reproduce in a FW tank, but usually not in any numbers. Their eggs become larvae first and both will be eaten by fish, so not many make it to a size that will grow to adulthood. But some may survive. I've had Ghosts reproduce in small numbers in a couple of tanks. Amano shrimp are nice too, but will not reproduce in FW, they need brackish water to grow their larvae. All do well in conditioned tap water.

Snails also make good clean up crew. Nerites do not reproduce in FW, and never eat plants, so they're nice to have. Big Als has some on sale 'til the 27th, 4 for $5.. an amazing deal for any kind of nerite. They will keep glass, leaves, rocks, everything, clean of most kinds of algae. You can have 2 or 3 and not worry about the load they add.


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## box1992 (May 17, 2013)

Ah alright, ye that makes sense. So far I am thinking of

10 harlequin rasboras
6 cardinals
8 rummy nose
2 dwarf gourami, a male to keep the female one I have company
and 1 blue ram

That however took it to 102%

Will adding an extra filter allow me to have those, as well as add some bottom dwellers? or will I have to take some of those out?

Also, will any of those fish eat cherry shrimp? 

Thanks for all your help so far


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

None of them are big enough to eat adult shrimp, but most if not all of them, will eat baby shrimp if they catch one. Shrimp have instincts to hide, especially when young, so it helps a lot to provide as many hiding spots as possible near the tank bottom, where the little shrimp live. Rocks, wood, heavy plantings, plenty of mosses and such for baby shrimp to hide in. 

You might want to think twice about getting another dwarf gourami.. they do not have a great reputation for surviving any great length of time. They are lovely, and personally I find them very attractive, but when I tried keeping them for awhile, so many of them died within a month or two, I gave up on them. They prefer a tank that's quite dark, very quiet, no fast swimming neighbours, no current to speak of, lots of plants. The tetras and rasboras are all more lively types that like it a bit brighter.

It's up to you of course.. but for some reason, a great many dwarf gouramis do not do well in the longer term. Your current specimen may be an exception to the usual, and of course some of them do fine, but given the other fish you like, the gourami is not the best choice of tankmate.

You can overstock if you are willing to do more maintenance. That means cleaning filters more often, partial WCs more often.. and adding another filter will help some as well. But it can backfire on you, simply because with a higher load, if, say, a filter breaks down, toxic levels of nitrates are reached much sooner.. or if something dies and is not consumed quickly, an ammonia or nitrite spike is more likely with heavy stocking. Just something to be aware of. In any case, don't add all that stock at one time, your filter needs time to grow more bacteria to handle the extra load, and it takes a bit of time for them to grow. Give it a couple of weeks between additions, say if you add six fish today, wait two weeks before you add more.

Also consider starting a quarantine tank. Most times you get away with putting fish in your tank and all is well, but there is always some risk of something like Ick, or some other disease or parasite, from a fish store. If so, putting new fish in a QT for 3 weeks is a virtual guarantee you won't have Ick or other problems in the main tank. And it's always easier to treat a small tank than a big one. It need not be more than 5 G.. but it's very useful. If a fish becomes ill, you can use it for a hospital tank also.


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

yup, dwarf gourami have a huge problem with staying alive, I gave up on them.

what is your filter? and what is your lighting?

If the filter is a canister filter or aquaclear filter you can push things a bit more. One problem with over stocking is nitrates go up faster which means more water changes like Fishfur said. Plants can help a lot with lowering nitrates though.

Changing to a dirt and gravel substrate can be cheap. The recommended is miracle gro organic potting soil, which is about $10 for a bag which would be more than enough for your tank. If you like your current gravel, then its very cheap, but will take some work.

Here is how I would change substrate to minimize impact:

remove the gravel while it is full of water and fish. You can pick up a little dustpan and broom at a dollar store to make it easier. Be sure you have some of the tank water in the container with the gravel so help reserve the bacteria a little.

Next is the hard part, you need to move the remaining water and fish to another container or containers, remember to turn off the filter and heater when doing this.

Now that the tank is empty, put in an inch or so of the miracle grow organic potting soil and then put the gravel on top of it.

Slowly put the water and fish back in, be sure to be careful not to stir things up with the water going back in.

All of this process is time sensitive, you want to have everything ready to go, the longer you take, the more good bacteria you will lose. Biggest problem I think would be finding containers to hold all the water and fish.

Also, wait about 30 min after refilling before turning the filter on, give the soil that is floating around time to settle, might be under 30 min, could be longer. You don't want to over work your filter and possibly damage it with all the junk floating around.

One more tip, don't do this right after a normal water change or filter maintenance. Make sure you wait a few days after last maintenance before changing the substrate to make sure you are at max good bacteria when starting.

When done, you should probably add some bacteria booster like stress zyme, or I think the seachem version is called stability? This will help your cycle bounce back faster.

I have moved the full contents of tanks up to 90 gallons to other tanks before and it isn't fun, but it isn't too bad either if you plan accordingly.

Hope this helps


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## default (May 28, 2011)

I use to keep bosemani rainbows in a 53gallon, but I've been holding a few in a 30gallon and they do pretty good, roughly 3.5" each. Just add current and they always tend to swim in it like a infinite pool. Also lots of plants help with the aggression of chasing each other.


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## box1992 (May 17, 2013)

I bought my two gouramis a year ago, the male died around 6 months ago, but the female is still alive. I bought the 29 gallon starter kit from big als a few years ago. So i believe it is the aqueon 20 that came with it. I am looking to add a second filter though. I upgraded the light mount to another one because the old one fused, but the light is nothing great. Going to go this week to try to get a glass top so I can put in a stronger light. The current top is plastic so I heard it could melt. 

I simply do not have the buckets to take out all the water and and put it back in. Is it possible to put in the soil/sand a bit at a time while taking out gravel while still leaving the fish in the tank? or would that be harmful to the fish?

So right now my tank has
7 harlequin rasboras
2 cardinals
1 black skirt
2 guppies
1 black neon
1 female dwarf gourami
1 green neon tetra
1 bloodfin tetra

If I were to choose some of those to make into schools it would be:
10 harlequin rasboras
6 cardinals
thinking of getting 8 rummy nose tetras

That would get the total up to 24.

Those would be my three schools.
The other fish I can slowly move into another tank while I slowly create these schools.

I need some bottom fish/ algae eaters:
I would really like to get red cherry shrimp, but I keep reading that they will be eaten, even the adult sized ones. So maybe I should add more plants first, so I know there is enough cover for them.

another option that was said was the big snails, but I am not really sure about them

The last could be ottos those small ones.

Which would be best?

I also want a fish to be the center piece of the tank, hence the suggestion of a blue ram? or anything big enough that could stand out, but not kill the other fish. Any suggestions?


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## catfishgurl (Aug 5, 2012)

*filter upgrade*

Box, I must say, great advice you have been given. You can learn from others mistakes and experience. Don't worry though, you'll make a few of your own, I know I have. 
What about upgrading the filter, rather than adding another? The reason I say this is I don't think a 29 gallon needs 2 filters. My first tank was a 28 gallon kit. The biowheel 150 that came with it is now on my 10 gallon quarantine. I replaced it with the 200 version. 
The filters that with kits are often just big enough. There is a saying, you can never have too much filtration. You can however have too much current, so that is something to be aware of.
You can wait for a sale at one of the big box pet/fish stores or look online. The GTA marketplace is really great too. It is also an opportunity to meet and see other members tanks and often as not you'll go home with an extra plant or light (it happened!) 
Welcome to the forum!
catfishgurl


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## box1992 (May 17, 2013)

Thanks catfishgurl. And yes, I am very thankful for all the help this forum has already given me. I already met someone on this forum to buy a plant today. My filter produces very little current, it is barely noticed. What are a couple good filter brands I should look out for? and should I get something that is lets say meant for a 50 gallon tank?


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

no way to safely put soil in the bottom and cap it with gravel with water in the tank. the soil would just cloud up the whole tank and take hours/days to settle, and as soon as the water moves slightly, it will be all over the place again, it has to be covered with gravel before water is in the tank.

An unused Rubbermaid bin would be perfect to hold water in, think outside the box. You don't have to put it all in one container, you can use 10 containers if you want. Can use anything that is clean and holds water. I wouldn't recommend using 100 drinking glasses though


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## catfishgurl (Aug 5, 2012)

*Filters*

I have penguin bio wheel filters, I like the ease of use, easy to lift up the top and see what is going on. I don't like having to buy the ready made ($$$) filter cartridges for them. I usually end up cutting them open and shaking out the charcoal. I stockpiled them on sale so I'll stick with them for now. Another member on this site referred to the razor blade model - you buy the cheap handle then are obligated to buying those expensive blade refills.
The next filter I buy will be an Aquaclear. Its more money up front, but the media in the filter lasts almost forever and can be customized. Also they have a flow contol so your fishies won't think they are in a washing machine. If you search aquaclear on this forum you will find much more info. And yes, going "up a size" is a good idea. Mom said I'd grow into it and She was right!
If you want to pm me I can give you a couple of online suppliers names.
catfishgurl


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## xriddler (Feb 16, 2012)

If money is not an issue i would go with a canister, eheim classic is my recommendation. If money is an issue than the aquaclear is a safe bet. drop in a sponge and biomedia + an extra bag of biomedia and it last pretty much for the lifetime of your tank. when companies tell you to change out your bio media its more telling us to give them free money. I dont think i ever plan on changing my media in my eheim except the white filter floss. Even the blue filter floss in my eheim will last quite sometime all i do is rinse it with tank water and stuff it back in.

As for center piece fish have you considered a Bolivian Ram? there are some other dwarf cichlids that i think would work too.


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## darkangel66n (May 15, 2013)

If you want to add soil for your plants without taking out the water there is a very easy way to do it, and the best way of growing plants as far as I am concerned. Find a shallow plastic container of some type that is about as high as your gravel is deep. Fill it 3/4 full of unfertilized potting soil. Put your plants roots into the soil and fill the rest of the way up with gravel from your tank. Bury the whole thing in your gravel and you are done. When putting it into the tank lower it slowly so as not to make a mess. This works really well for a couple of reasons in my opinion. First of all you limit where the plants grow as only a few will spread outside of the pot. Second you can move them from tank to tank or different places in the tank and not disturb the roots. Lastly you can now spot fertilize and not just do it all over the tank.


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

Interesting idea


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## box1992 (May 17, 2013)

Thanks a lot guys and girls, for all the help you gave me  I am going to wait to get the aqua clear 70 for the tank, going to look for a good deal and pick it up, as well as get a glass top. Going to add some more plants as well, and since it is wednesday. Going to get a few more fish for the schools I want to make. Maybe get the 4 cardinals and the snails today, or the harlequin rasboras and snails today. Any suggestions? And money would be a bit of an issue, so I can't get the canister  If i can find a nice deal on a bigger tank, I might do that eventually. 

That soil Idea was great as well, but I am also looking to make my substrate look nicer, so I guess a full change will need to occur. Will I lose all my plants if I do that? like my dwarf hair grass?


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## xriddler (Feb 16, 2012)

Since you already have 7 rasboras i would grab more cardianls first. They are shoaling fish and do much better in groups of 10+. will you be selling off your single fishes? because you might be adding quite bit of fish you might exceed your bioload limit and besides crowded tanks never look right


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## box1992 (May 17, 2013)

ah alright, and I will either put some in another tank or just give them away for free. Any plant suggestions?


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

your plants will be fine. the odd little stem might get too damaged when you remove them, just take your time and take the plants out bit by bit. Many of us often totally rearrange our plants and don't have any problems, they recover in a few days.


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## box1992 (May 17, 2013)

Oh alright. I'm going to big als today, any plant reccomendations? To help provide more cover for potential shrimps later on


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## box1992 (May 17, 2013)

So I went to big als today and got 4 nerite snails, 3 cardinal tetras bringing the total to 5, and a bacopa australis


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## TorontoBoy (Mar 14, 2013)

box1992 said:


> So I went to big als today and got 4 nerite snails, 3 cardinal tetras bringing the total to 5, and a bacopa australis


You might consider quarantining these fish. If they have any diseases (ich, fin rot) they might decimate your tank.

BTW, BA has a Weekend Tent sale starting tomorrow (Friday May 24 2013), 25% off all livestock, including plants.


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## box1992 (May 17, 2013)

unfortunately I do not have another tank. I have one that is cracked, so I am trying to fix it. That sale is already going on


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

All you need is a 10 gallon which you can sometimes get free on kijiji or at least dirt cheap, a heater and a sponge filter which you can make yourself easily, and air pump for the filter.


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## box1992 (May 17, 2013)

Ye I am actually looking into it, and been on the buy and sell thread looking for something small and cheap in mississauga. Big als has a 10 gallon for 12.99 I believe. Just the tank


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## Ischemia (Dec 19, 2012)

box1992 said:


> Thanks, Ye I figured the rainbows would not work, was just hoping. And german blue ram is the other fish. I want to focus on harlequin rasboras for sure, maybe the cardinal tetras because they look so good. Unfortunately, completely changing the substrate from gravel to soil or sand won't be possible. Because it will be too expensive, and my parents won't be pleased. Is there a way to take out some gravel at a time and add soil/sand? or does it have to be done all at once?


For $18 @ home depot you can get a large bag of miracle gro organic potting soil and a 20 kg bag of olay sand. Thats enough soil/sand for a 55g tank. Super cheap!


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## Ischemia (Dec 19, 2012)

box1992 said:


> Thanks, Ye I figured the rainbows would not work, was just hoping. And german blue ram is the other fish. I want to focus on harlequin rasboras for sure, maybe the cardinal tetras because they look so good. Unfortunately, completely changing the substrate from gravel to soil or sand won't be possible. Because it will be too expensive, and my parents won't be pleased. Is there a way to take out some gravel at a time and add soil/sand? or does it have to be done all at once?


For $18 @ home depot you can get a large bag of miracle gro organic potting soil and a 20 kg bag of play sand. Thats enough soil/sand for a 55g tank. Super cheap!


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## box1992 (May 17, 2013)

OH, I can put that in the aquarium and it is safe? oh I should look into that then. I got 15 pounds of flourite from the tent sale at big als this weekend for 5 bucks


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## Ischemia (Dec 19, 2012)

I have used this in all 3 of my planted tanks. You just have to sift out all the wood bits first. capped it with a bit of play sand but small gravel works as well. http://www.homedepot.ca/product/miracle-gro-organic-choice-potting-mix-283l/969906


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