# dead RCS :(



## chinamon (Jun 16, 2012)

i woke up this morning around 6am and saw one dead RCS in my tank. when i got home from work i saw another dead one. it is a sad day.

i just finished testing the water and these are the results:
pH 6.6
ammonia 0ppm
nitrite 0ppm
nitrate 0ppm
gh 4
kh 2
temperature 75.4F

any ideas?


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## Symplicity (Oct 14, 2011)

Hmm Tds? Any chance it was a bad molt? Age??


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## chinamon (Jun 16, 2012)

Symplicity said:


> Hmm Tds? Any chance it was a bad molt? Age??


i dont have a tds meter yet. it is in the mail (along with a pH meter).

i dont know how old they are because i just bought them a few days ago. i bought two separate batches of RCS. the first batch was purchased last saturday from Kim's Nature. the second batch was purchased on tuesday from Big Als (ew, i know).

can they die from molting?


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

chinamon said:


> can they die from molting?


Yes, especially if calcium is low. However, given that Toronto water is quite hard, I doubt this was the case.


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

Are you keeping Cherry shrimps, or Crystal shrimps?


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## chinamon (Jun 16, 2012)

solarz said:


> Are you keeping Cherry shrimps, or Crystal shrimps?


red cherry shrimp


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## Symplicity (Oct 14, 2011)

So you said the magic word  Just got them 2 days ago !

Did you drip acclimate them over 3+hrs? They obv died cuz of stress if you only had them 2 days! If they were full sized adults then this could very well be the reason.

Ive killed RCS from big als by not properly acclimatizing .... believe it or not! RCS are hardy but can die if age and stress get high.

Your parameters are great, I would for sure add a Mineral Rock (montmerillite?) or 2 .... or 3... pack of 3 is $8 shipped from ebay! Throw them all in the tank.

If your last weeks batch are still alive then you might have stressed the new batch too much.


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

chinamon said:


> red cherry shrimp


How long has your tank been set up?


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## chinamon (Jun 16, 2012)

Symplicity said:


> So you said the magic word  Just got them 2 days ago !
> 
> Did you drip acclimate them over 3+hrs? They obv died cuz of stress if you only had them 2 days! If they were full sized adults then this could very well be the reason.
> 
> ...


i opened the bag and clipped it to the top of the tank with the bag submerged in the tank then i added 50-100mL of tank water to the bag ever 5-10 minutes for a period of an hour.

i just ordered a set of shirakura mineral rock. should i put all three in my 10gal or just use one at a time?



solarz said:


> How long has your tank been set up?


about three weeks. it was two weeks of cycling with added Bio Support from big als. i added the shrimp when i saw bio film.


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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

3 weeks and you are getting 0/0/0 on amonia/nitrite/nitrate?
I am not even sure your tank even started cycling yet ...
You did the acclimatization correctly for RCS. There are still many other possibilities. Maybe it was too hot in the bag, that might have set things off already. So by the time it settled in your tank. It's already done it's damage and the shrimp is too stress to survive the molting process. All shrimp molt when they go from one tank to another tank with different water parameters. Even if you drip aclimatize them.
It just helps them adjust to the new water environment.
Drop one mineral rock into your tank. You don't need that many. Expect a few more to die within the next two weeks. After that, you should be good ... err... provided that your tank is already cycled.

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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

I strongly suspect that your tank is not cycled. What exactly did you do to "cycle" your tank?

A pH of 6.6 tells me that either you're using a shrimp substrate, or you have too much phosphates. Either way, it's highly doubtful that you'd get 0 nitrates. I suspect that you are not testing correctly either.


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

Cause of death of newly acquired shrimps is hard, especially for new tanks. I don't think 2 weeks is enough to cycle a new tank with new substrate unless you use matured filters with added ammonia. 

You made the most common mistake most of us did in the beginning of this hobby, I'll let you guess what it is so you'll remember. Hint: the hardest thing in this hobby.


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## zfarsh (Apr 7, 2011)

but his results are 0 on all accounts, so shouldnt it be something other than cycling in this case?


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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

You can add water to a tank and have it running for weeks or even months and you'll get 0/0/0 reading. But that's far from saying it's cycled becaue in never even begun in the first place.
Besides, we're all speculating because we don't know if s/he is a pro or a beginner. You can get 0/0/5-10 if you know what you're doing. Usually we see some minor traces of nitrate. You never go through 1 big cycle and that's it. You usually go through 1 big cycle follow by multiple mini cycles before your tank finally stablize to balance your live stocks' output. There are also many other chemicals and bacterial and fungi that we don't care or test for. That's why there is such a thing as new tank syndrone. Some times an excess of something can tip your tank into another big cycle down the road. This can happen 3 - 6 months after you set up your tank and think it's running perfect. Eg., algae bloom and bacteria bloom.

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## Symplicity (Oct 14, 2011)

So true.
I had to wait close to 4 months for my tank to stabilize properly.


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## zfarsh (Apr 7, 2011)

Zebra, i agree with you that we dont know if the tank is cycled or not, but... his readings are showing 0. If his tests are wrong, than the answer is there. However, if the tests are correct, then wouldnt this indicate the cause of death is soemthing else (I agree this does not say if the tank is cycled or not, only testing daily will). 

For example. Say i take a 5g tank, and i leave it on for 3 weeks with sand substrate and maybe some plants. Then i add alot of shrimps (more than the none-cyled tank can take). I WILL get a reading in the amonia or nitrite if i am testing everyday, and it should appear by the 2 nd or 3 rd day, if not sooner. Now say i change water a bit, add ALOT of plants, like amazon frogbits, and maybe lower the amount of shrimps by relocating to another tank. Then by checking every day, twice if necessary, i will know what is going on in terms of Amonia / Nitrite, which would be the first signs of trouble. Daily test will give at least some control and indications.

Though this does not take into account other things that could kill the shrimp, i at least know that it is not the potential non-cycled tank that is harming the shrimps, but something else.

Am I wrong here??? If so, pls explain what am i missing for suspecting the potential non-cycling to Not be the cause of death.


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## getochkn (Jul 10, 2011)

+1 Zebrapl3co. I try and give a tank 3-4 months setup before I add most shrimp. The substrate needs time to build up, bacteria balances, all kinds of things need to happen for it to finally balance and be stable. I still get a bacteria bloom now and again months after. Those I let ride out, but can still happen months and months later.


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## Symplicity (Oct 14, 2011)

So true.
I had to wait close to 4 months for my tank to stabilize properly.


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## chinamon (Jun 16, 2012)

when i first got my tank filled it with tap water (using fluval stratum as substrate). i added big als water conditioner and big als bio support. i put in all my plants (three java fern, two taiwan moss and two moss balls) and a piece of drift wood. then i tested the water and it was pH 6.8, ammonia 0ppm, nitrite 0ppm and nitrate 20ppm. after one week i saw a layer of biofilm floating on top of the water. i added shrimp one week after that.

if my tank was not cycled at that time, it should be getting pretty close to cycled by now i assume?

i think i should start buying my 40gal tank and equipment so i can set it up and let it cycle for at least a couple months if i want to add CRS


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## chinamon (Jun 16, 2012)

solarz said:


> A pH of 6.6 tells me that either you're using a shrimp substrate, or you have too much phosphates. Either way, it's highly doubtful that you'd get 0 nitrates. I suspect that you are not testing correctly either.


i followed the instructions to the T. its not exactly rocket science. some stuff i do at work is a lot harder than testing water. lol


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

chinamon said:


> when i first got my tank filled it with tap water (using fluval stratum as substrate). i added big als water conditioner and big als bio support. i put in all my plants (three java fern, two taiwan moss and two moss balls) and a piece of drift wood. then i tested the water and it was pH 6.8, ammonia 0ppm, nitrite 0ppm and nitrate 20ppm. after one week i saw a layer of biofilm floating on top of the water. i added shrimp one week after that.
> 
> if my tank was not cycled at that time, it should be getting pretty close to cycled by now i assume?
> 
> i think i should start buying my 40gal tank and equipment so i can set it up and let it cycle for at least a couple months if i want to add CRS


Wait, you set up your tank and found 20ppm nitrates right away?

How big is your tank currently? Did you put in any used media into the tank for cycling, or did you only use the water conditioner and "bio support"?


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

First of all, I don't think the tank is cycled, although it might be if all the readings are correct. But think about it, a cycled tank doesn't equal to a ready tank. For a tank being cycled, it only means the bacteria supporting the cycle of NH3->NO2->NO3 is roughly ready, but there are tons of other things in the tank that are not ready (balanced). Adding shrimps in just make the matter more complicated. So don't be surprised to see death in a new tank, even a newly cycled one.

We only talk about PH/GH/KH/TDS/NH3/NO2/NO3 and call that water parameters, there are a thousand other things that are just critical to the well being of the inhabitants. For example, dissolved oxygen (who has tested this?), heavy metal, bad bacteria, osmotic pressure, micro organism constitution, trace elements, .....

Patience is the key. We all make mistakes and learn, and will never learn enough to stop making mistakes, only making less.


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## chinamon (Jun 16, 2012)

so i guess my impatience is what killed my shrimp. i guess i will just have to wait a little longer for my tank to stabilize (and death to stop) before i purchase more RCS.

anyway, how is the shrimp farm as a retailer/breeder? anyone bought from them before?


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## getochkn (Jul 10, 2011)

chinamon said:


> so i guess my impatience is what killed my shrimp. i guess i will just have to wait a little longer for my tank to stabilize (and death to stop) before i purchase more RCS.
> 
> anyway, how is the shrimp farm as a retailer/breeder? anyone bought from them before?


When you're looking, post on here. There is lots of us that have good shrimp that we can sell at good prices.


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## Symplicity (Oct 14, 2011)

lololol speak of the devil. 

I found one adult RCS in my tank.

water temp is 72.8 
0/0/20
180tds
2kh 5gh

wierd! no dead CRS though! must have died from intestinal or bacterial death. I do have IAL............ there are always mystery deaths.


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## chinamon (Jun 16, 2012)

Symplicity said:


> lololol speak of the devil.
> 
> I found one adult RCS in my tank.
> 
> ...


my condolences.
please let us know about the funeral arrangements.


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## coldmantis (Apr 5, 2010)

don't feel too bad, last week I had 1 crs, yellow, and fire red die all in different tanks, luckily no red rili since I don't have many and the only thing I did different this time is I feed them fluval shrimp food only once and they died around 3-4 days later. I usually just feed veggie pellets with calcium. I used to feed them once a day 7 different foods per week. either the food of the amount of feeding killed them. since I started once a week I never had a death cycled tank or not no death.


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