# What to replace bioballs with??



## jamie1985 (Oct 11, 2012)

Hey everyone! I have a 29gal biocube and i am going to remove the bioballs as I think they are the problem behind my nitrates...what should I put in that center compartment instead? I have heard live rock rubble and chaeto but I dot really want to get into having another light back there for the chaeto to grow...any suggestions???

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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

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## jamie1985 (Oct 11, 2012)

Thanks Sig I know I posted that a little while ago but I was hoping to get more info on what would be best back there? I am currently running a gfo reactor with 50/50 gfo and carbon and I also have a skimmer coming this week. So would I get any additional benefits from chaeto? Or should I just stick with LR?

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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

Nobody can get benefits from very small amount of chaeto. 
GFO and Skimmer is your choice. I never used chaeto and never had problems. IMO

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## jamie1985 (Oct 11, 2012)

Ok great! Good to know...sounds like it will be more hassle than its worth...I will just replace the bioballs with LR...should I take half of the balls out and replace with LR then wait a week or two and do the rest? I dont want to shock the system...

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## Kweli (Jun 2, 2010)

I have a solana, similar to biocube (all-in-one)

I didn't go with the cheato either due to size restrictions.

In my 2nd chamber I just have a bunch of live rock and chemi-pure elite.

Live rock (even without light) will have beneficial bacteria that will help breakdown. Theres also different bacteria that will grow in non-lit areas... as all areas of the ocean have life


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

jamie1985 said:


> .I will just replace the bioballs with LR...should I take half of the balls out and replace with LR then wait a week or two and do the rest? I dont want to shock the system...
> 
> Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk


how many times you can ask the same question and expected different answers. do you really believe people has nothing to do? 

It was my last attempt to help you, because looks like others are fed with you long time ago

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## jamie1985 (Oct 11, 2012)

Noone has actually given me a straight answer as to the proper way to remove the bioballs...this must not be the case for you but I dont have a pile of money sitting around to spend on the tank if something happens and I shock the system and everything dies so I was merely wanting assurance that I am about to do the right thing. I appreciate your help but you should have more patience for others, not everyone knows everything like you do.

Thanks for the info Kweli! Did you just put the chemipure media bag loose in the chamber? Do you have a skimmer or any other water purifying filters as well?

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## Kweli (Jun 2, 2010)

Well, depending on the size of your bioball collection you have two options...

-If you feel you have a significant amount of bioballs (bacteria) then you should do a quarter every 4-5 days and see how the system reacts. Any sign of trouble means you can stop for a week
-If you dont have many bioballs you can take it out in two different batches.. Give a week between.

The media bag is just loose in the chamber, but it is laying in a way that forces water to pass through it (basically blocking the whole passage)
I also have purigen in there (new addition)

I have a stock solana skimmer which does 'light' skimming compared to most quality skimmers. On a scale from 1 to 10 in skimmer awesomeness, mine would be around a 2-4


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## jamie1985 (Oct 11, 2012)

Thanks so much for the helpfull information. The chamber is only about half full of bioballs so I can probably do the half and half method and I guess if I replace them immediately with LR it will help lessen the blow as well...I am running 50/50 gfo and carbon in a reactor and will be getting a half decent skimmer...is there such thing as having too much filtering? 

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## Kweli (Jun 2, 2010)

Ideally with a small tank you want to balance swings as much as possible. So keep the clean water going... just remember to keep your cleaning "machine's" clean.

If you replace them with LIVE rock then it should balance nicely... otherwise dead rock won't start working for a while


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## Steel_Wind (Oct 26, 2013)

His main DT has a fair bit of LR in it already. He should not need more.


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## jamie1985 (Oct 11, 2012)

I have about 30lbs of LR in the DT already but since my system is used to having the bioballs in there I should still probably take some precaution....I dont want to risk anything. ..Kweli where I was going with the too much filtering comment is would it be too much to have a skimmer, gfo reactor, and media bags in the back compartment with the LR? Would it ever start taking good nutrients out of the water that the corals need to grow properly?

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## altcharacter (Jan 10, 2011)

All tanks need different levels of nutrients depending on what you have. This is why a dominant tank usually does better than a mixed reef tank. In a mixed reef tank some corals won't like the levels that another might like.

It all depends on what you have in your tank


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## jamie1985 (Oct 11, 2012)

I have a black and white clown and an albino tangerine clown (who are paired) and a true perc clown. I also have a sixline wrasse and CUC. As for corals I have two finger leathers, candy cane, hammer, pearl bubble and sun coral...

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## badmedicine (Oct 27, 2012)

One thing to remember about putting objects in your sump is that it will develop crud on the bottom and need to be cleaned from time to time. Gt bigger pieces of rock if you can.


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## jamie1985 (Oct 11, 2012)

Good to know! I will get larger chunks rather than rubble

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## andy (Jun 26, 2012)

You better take the bio balls out slowly step by step when u do your water change. I have 29 bc before but then I changed to a new tank and removed all the bio balls in one time. A week later all my corals are not doing very well but all the fish are ok. Now is been about two weeks and my corals start to getting better. The only coral I lost is a acro colony. I replaced the bio balls with a medium size hang on fuge with cheato and small piece of live rock. I do dosing red sea NO3 PO4 reducer. My bc 29 been running for one and 7 months and also I have 29lbs in the display tank and about 3 lbs small piece of live rock in my hang on fuge.


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## jamie1985 (Oct 11, 2012)

Thanks for the advice andy I took half of the balls out a few days ago and I will take the rest out later this week...so far so good...my finger leathers actually opened up today which was nice to see! Gfo must be working already!

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## PACMAN (Mar 4, 2010)

if i may ask, what makes live rock rubble better than bioballs in that chamber? won't the bacteria grow on the balls as well?

I havea 29G biocube and i removed the bioballs from the get go and had chaeto. but i found it was too hard to grow in there, so I now just have chemipure in there and filterfloss elevated to act as a filter before water fallsdown into middle chamber. perhaps i should add live rock back there, but I am unclear as to why rubble would be any different from the bio balls


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## Steel_Wind (Oct 26, 2013)

PACMAN said:


> if i may ask, what makes live rock rubble better than bioballs in that chamber? won't the bacteria grow on the balls as well?
> 
> I havea 29G biocube and i removed the bioballs from the get go and had chaeto. but i found it was too hard to grow in there, so I now just have chemipure in there and filterfloss elevated to act as a filter before water fallsdown into middle chamber. perhaps i should add live rock back there, but I am unclear as to why rubble would be any different from the bio balls


The problem is that the Bio Balls are TOO GOOD at what they do and they provide too large a surface area for the bacteria to reside. The nature of the surface area they provide is also different and this has potentially a significant effect on longterm biological filter management. For a variety of reasons which remain hotly debated (though not, _importantly_, the RESULT which is beyond contestation), Bio Balls are so effective at converting ammonia to nitrites >> thence to nitrates that they make the longterm management of a tank very problematic. They are simply too good at what they do -- and that's why they are bad in the longterm.

There is also a debate as to whether the anoxic bacteria which can convert some nitrates to nitrogen gas cannot exist within a Bio Ball (they are generally not porous) and so they can create more nitrate than a live rock will (there is real debate over this issue and it's not as cut and dried as some might prefer). Essentially, this amounts to "what is _on them_ is the same -- but not what is _within them_" so that the finished product of the nitrogen cycle produced by LR vs Bio Balls is different. The whys of all this are the source of much disagreement, but the enhanced performance for better chemical balance achieved through use of Live Rock is not in debate.

So yes, the same bacteria will grow on live rock, though it will not colonize as effectively, reproduce at the same rate, die off at the same rate, and will not consume and convert ammonia to nitrite >> ultimately yielding nitrates at the same rate. In the end, the LR as opposed to Bio Balls will make the overall tank easier to manage in the longterm without the algae and other problems which go along with Bio Balls and higher nitrates. The LR is as good as it needs to be so that the chemical harmony is in better balance for a longer period, while the Bio Balls are TOO GOOD, and that causes problems.

_Question_: Can a biological filter be too good? 
_Answer_: YES.


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## PACMAN (Mar 4, 2010)

Steel_Wind said:


> The problem is that the Bio Balls are TOO GOOD at what they do and they provide too large a surface area for the bacteria to reside. The nature of the surface area they provide is also different and this has potentially a significant effect on longterm biological filter management. For a variety of reasons which remain hotly debated (though not, _importantly_, the RESULT which is beyond contestation), Bio Balls are so effective at converting ammonia to nitrites >> thence to nitrates that they make the longterm management of a tank very problematic. They are simply too good at what they do -- and that's why they are bad in the longterm.
> 
> There is also a debate as to whether the anoxic bacteria which can convert some nitrates to nitrogen gas cannot exist within a Bio Ball (they are generally not porous) and so they can create more nitrate than a live rock will (there is real debate over this issue and it's not as cut and dried as some might prefer). Essentially, this amounts to "what is _on them_ is the same -- but not what is _within them_" so that the finished product of the nitrogen cycle produced by LR vs Bio Balls is different. The whys of all this are the source of much disagreement, but the enhanced performance for better chemical balance achieved through use of Live Rock is not in debate.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the quick and thorough response!


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## jamie1985 (Oct 11, 2012)

Excellent info. Very clear!

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