# I think one of my CPDs might be sick. :(



## bumbleboo (Jun 6, 2010)

Soo... when I woke up this morning I noticed one of my paler CPDs (she's always been kind of pale since I got her...) was not being as active/easily spooked as my other CPDs. She's just kind of drifting out in the open, near the bottom. She doesn't swim around too much, and is just kind of resting near the bottom. She also isn't hanging out with the other CPDs. It's really sad to see...

I checked my water parameters and they are all fine. It's a 10G tank with a Tetra PF10, and in the tank I have:

6 Celestial Pearl Danios
2 Ember Tetras (I'm going to get them some buddies when I have the 25G ready)
1 Zebra Nerite Snail
3 Juvenile Otto cats (I'm going to get them some buddies too when I move them to the 25G)
10-12 Cherry Shrimp from gucci17 (Thanks again!) I just got them tonight

As far as food they are eating the following:

Hikari Frozen Brine Shrimp
Freeze-dried bloodworms (I want to get them some frozen ones when I can afford it)
Peas
Tetra tropical crisps
Hikari Algae wafers

When I feed them they get one of the above for breakfast (excluding the brine shimp) and they have the brine shrimp for dinner every night.

I realize this tank is a little overstocked! But it's just temporary until my 25G is ready. As far as AqAdvisor says, it should be okay for now (though my filtration efficiency is only 92%), I am going to do 2 water changes per week instead of one.

I hope this is enough information. She is still eating but she is definitely very lethargic.  Any help is greatly appreciated, I don't really want to separate her from the others as I think that might make things worse stress-wise?

Not sure if it helps but here are some pictures:


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## bumbleboo (Jun 6, 2010)

Hmm... now I realize her belly is quite sunken compared to the other CPDs...


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## AquaNeko (Jul 26, 2009)

Does she still eat? I think it is a good idea to put her in a QT tank for now. I'm no expert on diagnosing fish but I did see before a sunken belly pic of a fish with mention of fish teberculocius (total sp).  

Can.T has cheap KIS brand clear storage bins if you can't afford an aquarium QT tank or just want something cheap and simple to use. Best of luck on finding out what the issue is.


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## bumbleboo (Jun 6, 2010)

AquaNeko said:


> Does she still eat? I think it is a good idea to put her in a QT tank for now. I'm no expert on diagnosing fish but I did see before a sunken belly pic of a fish with mention of fish teberculocius (total sp).
> 
> Can.T has cheap KIS brand clear storage bins if you can't afford an aquarium QT tank or just want something cheap and simple to use. Best of luck on finding out what the issue is.


Okay, thank you.  She is eating, and I've seen her pooping a few times.. but sometimes she sort of falls to her side (not completely but still)... it's so sad. I hope she gets better... I feel awful.  She's always been pale though, I'm wondering if she's the weak one or something...

Also, I hope it's not tuberculosis because I just realized I have a cut on my hand and I put my hand in the water.


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## Joeee (Apr 3, 2010)

I doubt it's TB;

Extreme case:
http://www.fishpondinfo.com/photos/fish/danios/tbdanio3.jpg

Milder case:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/CypriniiformPIX/Danios/glo fish bent.JPG

Mild case:
http://208.112.95.51/CypriniiformPIX/Danios/superbaby_022[1].JPG

I had a guppy with a similar condition, it didn't want to do anything but just stay in one place and it didn't want to eat. But one day it just started eating again. You should remove this fish for the time being, what are you feeding it?


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## bumbleboo (Jun 6, 2010)

Joeee said:


> I doubt it's TB;
> 
> Extreme case:
> http://www.fishpondinfo.com/photos/fish/danios/tbdanio3.jpg
> ...


I certainly hope it's not TB!

Okay, did you remove the guppy and it was fine? I do want to remove her, but on one hand, I'm afraid the stress of moving her might kill her.  I'm feeding her what they regularly eat, I listed them above. She is eating, but little.

I went to BA's today to get some frozen bloodworms (all I have is freeze dried, I bought them for my plants originally). I heard danios go crazy for frozen bloodworms, but they are all out... So I'm going to go back tomorrow. So for now I put some stress coat in the water (she's bumping on the ground a lot, maybe it's removing some of her slime coating?), I'm not really sure what else to do. 

I'm sort of at a loss, and I don't want her to die.  Do you think I should remove her though?


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## AquaNeko (Jul 26, 2009)

bumbleboo said:


> I certainly hope it's not TB!
> 
> Okay, did you remove the guppy and it was fine? I do want to remove her, but on one hand, I'm afraid the stress of moving her might kill her.  I'm feeding her what they regularly eat, I listed them above. She is eating, but little.
> 
> ...


Just an idea here. Modifiy as you see needed. Perhaps stage out the movei n parts to lessen the stress on the fish. A breeder container could be used with a fish net to get the fish to swim into the breeder container and let the fish stay in the breeder container for a day or so to relax then use say a tofu container or some larger bucket that can fit into the fish tank so when you remove the breeder container you put the bucket under the breeder container and move both items out with the fish still in the breeder container inside the bucket. Now transfer to your QT tank with a bunch of old tank water from that fishes tank and a mature filter and monitor from there or treat as needed.


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## AquaNeko (Jul 26, 2009)

bumbleboo said:


> Also, I hope it's not tuberculosis because I just realized I have a cut on my hand and I put my hand in the water.


http://www.fishlore.com/Articles/DiseasesTransmittedToHumans.htm

http://www.fishlore.com/fishforum/f...ycobacterium-marinum-fish-tank-granuloma.html

http://www.petbrags.com/profiles/blogs/fish-tuberculosis-if-you-keep

Now I'm starting ot wonder about the free tanks being given away if fish had TB outbreak before. ;;


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## Joeee (Apr 3, 2010)

I think I heard something about how glass can't hold viruses or bacteria when someone was talking about buying Indoor Jungle's aquariums. I don't remember if this was either on the forums or in a random dream.



bumbleboo said:


> Okay, did you remove the guppy and it was fine? I do want to remove her, but on one hand, I'm afraid the stress of moving her might kill her.  I'm feeding her what they regularly eat, I listed them above. She is eating, but little.
> 
> I went to BA's today to get some frozen bloodworms (all I have is freeze dried, I bought them for my plants originally). I heard danios go crazy for frozen bloodworms, but they are all out... So I'm going to go back tomorrow. So for now I put some stress coat in the water (she's bumping on the ground a lot, maybe it's removing some of her slime coating?), I'm not really sure what else to do.
> 
> I'm sort of at a loss, and I don't want her to die.  Do you think I should remove her though?


I sort of removed her, I removed a guppy that looked exactly like her but not her. My guppy sort of recovered on its own, the perfectly healthy one that looked just like her died though. I would separate her now until someone can properly diagnose the fish, there no point in risking the safety of the rest of the fish. The rubbing effect caused by stresscoat is normal from what I've heard.


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## bumbleboo (Jun 6, 2010)

Okay, thanks guys. I will slowly move her out of the tank. 

And Joeee, what do you mean by rubbing effect? :O


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## bumbleboo (Jun 6, 2010)

Oh yeah! But another problem is that I do not have a mature filter other than the ones that are on my tanks, and I don't have a quarantine tank so I'll have to use a bucket, but, do you think I could substitute daily water changes for having a filter?


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## bumbleboo (Jun 6, 2010)

I have her in a breeding box in tank now. I saw some of the other CPDs picking on her. 

When she swims, she flicks her tail like normal but her chin is always resting on the ground. Does this just mean she doesn't have the energy to bring her whole body up?

Anyone have any input on this?


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## Joeee (Apr 3, 2010)

Your observations make me less and less sure of what your fish may have.

As for the Q.T, you don't need an established filter. You can squeeze your filter sponge into a bucket that is:
1: filled with conditioned water,
2: has a sponge in it
3: has an air pump running on it

Do the feces of your fish look normal?


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## bumbleboo (Jun 6, 2010)

Joeee said:


> Your observations make me less and less sure of what your fish may have.
> 
> As for the Q.T, you don't need an established filter. You can squeeze your filter sponge into a bucket that is:
> 1: filled with conditioned water,
> ...


 That's not good.

Okay, I don't have a sponge, it's just a Tetra PF10, but can I squeeze the water from the packet thing into her bucket once she's moved? She's still just in a breeding box for now.

Okay, I can add the air pump. Is it just for surface agitation? What does it do exactly? (Just so know for the future!)

Her feces look normal, but it almost seems like she's always pooping a bit now. Maybe she's constipated and there's some stuck or something? I'm not sure... But I never actually have seen the CPDs poop, cause they move so quickly, so I'm not sure how frequently they go. As far as colour goes, it's normal though.

Thanks so much for your help by the way. 

P.S. Should I add a sponge to my filter, and if so, where should I add it?


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## Joeee (Apr 3, 2010)

Forgot to add, this may be important:

Fish have a slower metabolism at lower temperatures. I've heard of guppies living 3-5 years at lower temperatures. I have also heard that the metabolism of reptiles speeds up at higher temperatures and when they get certain types of viruses it is recommended that the temperature of the water be increased so their metabolish speeds up and their immune system is more affective. You could try to do the same thing, I don't see much in if say the temperature of your water is 22C and you increase it 3 degrees gradually.

According to:
http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/barbs/celestialpearldanio.php

It says the maximum recommended temperature for them is 25C.

and according to:
http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_Hyphessobrycon_amandae.php

The maximum recommended temperature for Ember Tetras is 26C. I've kept ottos, red cherries, and nerites at 28C, so both should be fine at 25C. Btw, try to find a nice horned nerite snail when you upgrade to the 25G. You can get some that look REALLY nice;
http://www.planetinverts.com/hornednerite.jpg

and other times you'll just get ugly ones, but keep an eye out for them.


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## bumbleboo (Jun 6, 2010)

Joeee said:


> Forgot to add, this may be important:
> 
> Fish have a slower metabolism at lower temperatures. I've heard of guppies living 3-5 years at lower temperatures. I have also heard that the metabolism of reptiles speeds up at higher temperatures and when they get certain types of viruses it is recommended that the temperature of the water be increased so their metabolish speeds up and their immune system is more affective. You could try to do the same thing, I don't see much in if say the temperature of your water is 22C and you increase it 3 degrees gradually.
> 
> ...


I actually don't have their heater on right now cause it's 26-27 C without the heater! I'll probably need it in the winter, though. That's good information to know though, thanks!

That is a sweet snail, I've never seen one in person, but hopefully I can find one.  Have you ever seen them at any of the LFS?


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## Joeee (Apr 3, 2010)

bumbleboo said:


> That's not good.
> 
> Okay, I don't have a sponge, it's just a Tetra PF10, but can I squeeze the water from the packet thing into her bucket once she's moved? She's still just in a breeding box for now.
> 
> ...


Be gentle when you squeeze it, I have a tendency to be destructive when doing such delicate procedures.
The surface agitation helps oxygenate the water and because when you seed the tank with the other filter's squeezings the ammonia from your fish's waste will just stay in one place if there is no water movement.

To the P.S:
I thought you didn't have a sponge O_O
I don't know how your filter works, so it's better asking someone who has the same filter or one of a similar design. For now, I'd just throw a sponge into the bucket.


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## bumbleboo (Jun 6, 2010)

Joeee said:


> Be gentle when you squeeze it, I have a tendency to be destructive when doing such delicate procedures.
> The surface agitation helps oxygenate the water and because when you seed the tank with the other filter's squeezings the ammonia from your fish's waste will just stay in one place if there is no water movement.
> 
> To the P.S:
> ...


Okay! Good to know, thanks!

Oooh, I don't have a sponge! I just meant, would it be good for me to get one and do so? Also, what type of sponge should I use? So I'm putting a sponge (When I get one) in the bucket so that the bacteria can colonize it, right?


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## Joeee (Apr 3, 2010)

bumbleboo said:


> I actually don't have their heater on right now cause it's 26-27 C without the heater! I'll probably need it in the winter, though. That's good information to know though, thanks!
> 
> That is a sweet snail, I've never seen one in person, but hopefully I can find one.  Have you ever seen them at any of the LFS?


Menagerie had the snails for some time for like $2.50 each.


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## bumbleboo (Jun 6, 2010)

Joeee said:


> Menagerie had the snails for some time for like $2.50 each.


OH MENAGERIE, why are you so beautiful and yet so far away?


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## Joeee (Apr 3, 2010)

bumbleboo said:


> Okay! Good to know, thanks!
> 
> Oooh, I don't have a sponge! I just meant, would it be good for me to get one and do so? Also, what type of sponge should I use? So I'm putting a sponge (When I get one) in the bucket so that the bacteria can colonize it, right?


Yeah, and it was silly of me to forget that the bacteria also colonizes on gravel, so a handful of that should help considerably.


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## bumbleboo (Jun 6, 2010)

Joeee said:


> Yeah, and it was silly of me to forget that the bacteria also colonizes on gravel, so a handful of that should help considerably.


Great! Thank you so much. You have been incredibly helpful! I tried to give you a point but it says I can't until I spread more points around... but... thanks so much!

Do you think it might be too drastic a change for her if I were to move her into a bucket tomorrow?


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## Joeee (Apr 3, 2010)

bumbleboo said:


> Great! Thank you so much. You have been incredibly helpful! I tried to give you a point but it says I can't until I spread more points around... but... thanks so much!
> 
> Do you think it might be too drastic a change for her if I were to move her into a bucket tomorrow?


I don't know if the change would be too much for her, but moving her is to prevent the spread of this illness, so the main reason is to protect the other fish. But if you left her in there for a few days now, this illness probably would have spread by now unless it isn't contagious.

The main causes of illnesses that I can think of which would be contagious would have to be bacterial, fungal, parasitic, and viral. I don't know enough about fish disease to diagnose this fish, so it could probably even just be a vitamin deficiency. So far if there is no sign of any of these then it could be caused by vitamin deficiency or more commonly (which I always seem to forget) bad water quality. I forgot the most important part of diagnosing a fish's illness, what are your water parameters? When was the last time you did a water change?


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## bumbleboo (Jun 6, 2010)

Joeee said:


> I don't know if the change would be too much for her, but moving her is to prevent the spread of this illness, so the main reason is to protect the other fish. But if you left her in there for a few days now, this illness probably would have spread by now unless it isn't contagious.
> 
> The main causes of illnesses that I can think of which would be contagious would have to be bacterial, fungal, parasitic, and viral. I don't know enough about fish disease to diagnose this fish, so it could probably even just be a vitamin deficiency. So far if there is no sign of any of these then it could be caused by vitamin deficiency or more commonly (which I always seem to forget) bad water quality. I forgot the most important part of diagnosing a fish's illness, what are your water parameters? When was the last time you did a water change?


My water parameters haven't changed. Ammonia's 0, Nitrate and Nitrite are at 0 too. My GH is 120, and KH is 80, pH is 6.5, so nothing has changed there. The last time I did a water change was Friday, the 6th, I'm doing it twice weekly because for my stocking level right now my filter is only 92% efficient (for adult sizes, my ottos are adults yet though), so I'm assuming it's fine, but to be on the safe side, I'm doing twice weekly. (My filter efficiency only changed when I added the Cherry shrimp on Friday? I think it was).

I always check my water parameters the night of a water change (to give it a few hours for the water to mix) but maybe there was a nitrite (is that the one?) spike that I didn't notice, and that, because she was already weak, she was affected by it?


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## Joeee (Apr 3, 2010)

bumbleboo said:


> My water parameters haven't changed. Ammonia's 0, Nitrate and Nitrite are at 0 too. My GH is 120, and KH is 80, pH is 6.5, so nothing has changed there. The last time I did a water change was Friday, the 6th, I'm doing it twice weekly because for my stocking level right now my filter is only 92% efficient (for adult sizes, my ottos are adults yet though), so I'm assuming it's fine, but to be on the safe side, I'm doing twice weekly. (My filter efficiency only changed when I added the Cherry shrimp on Friday? I think it was).
> 
> I always check my water parameters the night of a water change (to give it a few hours for the water to mix) but maybe there was a nitrite (is that the one?) spike that I didn't notice, and that, because she was already weak, she was affected by it?


I guess that's possible, I'm not sure what I would do if I was in your situation though. I guess I'd be to lazy to move the fish. Hopefully someone else can shed some light on this.

The problem with AqAdvisor and the filter information it contains, is that it assumes the filter is running at a certain % of efficiency and that you're using the same type of media that was given in the box. Let's say the assumed efficiency of the filter the have is 90% and yours is 85%, the equation wouldn't be quite right (it's always good to over filter, xD). I have sponges in all my TopFin filters and I know that would change the equation AqAdvisor uses but I don't know if there's a way to put that in. The amount of filtration you need is also dependent on the size of fish you have, the amount of filtration needed for 100 tetra fry is different from that of what you need of 100 tetra adults.


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## bumbleboo (Jun 6, 2010)

Joeee said:


> I guess that's possible, I'm not sure what I would do if I was in your situation though. I guess I'd be to lazy to move the fish. Hopefully someone else can shed some light on this.
> 
> The problem with AqAdvisor and the filter information it contains, is that it assumes the filter is running at a certain % of efficiency and that you're using the same type of media that was given in the box. Let's say the assumed efficiency of the filter the have is 90% and yours is 85%, the equation wouldn't be quite right (it's always good to over filter, xD). I have sponges in all my TopFin filters and I know that would change the equation AqAdvisor uses but I don't know if there's a way to put that in. The amount of filtration you need is also dependent on the size of fish you have, the amount of filtration needed for 100 tetra fry is different from that of what you need of 100 tetra adults.


I'm not too lazy to move her, I'm just not sure if what she has is contagious (nobody else looks sick, so far), and I just don't want her to die of stress. 

That's very true! Well, hopefully I'll be moving everybody pretty soon. I am in the process of moving rooms so I don't want to set up the 25 gallon and then have to move it all (cause I already have two others). I'm trying to find a stand for it too, I need another dresser for all my stuff anyway (I'm talking about things that don't matter) BUT... man I look like a crappy fish owner.  I feel horrible about all this. But so far, the water hasn't gotten out of the control, so that's good at least!


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## Joeee (Apr 3, 2010)

bumbleboo said:


> I'm not too lazy to move her, I'm just not sure if what she has is contagious (nobody else looks sick, so far), and I just don't want her to die of stress.
> 
> That's very true! Well, hopefully I'll be moving everybody pretty soon. I am in the process of moving rooms so I don't want to set up the 25 gallon and then have to move it all (cause I already have two others). I'm trying to find a stand for it too, I need another dresser for all my stuff anyway (I'm talking about things that don't matter) BUT... man I look like a crappy fish owner.  I feel horrible about all this. But so far, the water hasn't gotten out of the control, so that's good at least!


If the water hasn't gotten out of control then how are you a crappy fish owner? Everyone gets sick fish every now and then, it's nothing to feel bad about.

If you have the filter for the 25G, then you can set it up on the tank you have currently.


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## bumbleboo (Jun 6, 2010)

Joeee said:


> If the water hasn't gotten out of control then how are you a crappy fish owner? Everyone gets sick fish every now and then, it's nothing to feel bad about.
> 
> If you have the filter for the 25G, then you can set it up on the tank you have currently.


That's true...

Okay, I do have a filter but I don't have any media for it so I'll have to look up what to use. The problem is I don't have much money. 

Update on the fish: She is incredibly pale since I moved her... do you think it's just from the stress? She's almost white now, I will get some pictures.


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## AquaNekoMobile (Feb 26, 2010)

bumbleboo said:


> That's true...
> 
> Okay, I do have a filter but I don't have any media for it so I'll have to look up what to use. The problem is I don't have much money.
> 
> Update on the fish: She is incredibly pale since I moved her... do you think it's just from the stress? She's almost white now, I will get some pictures.


DIY it girl. Here is my page. I did a simple DIY and it works for my 1gal 'sweetie' tank.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/?saved=1 check it.

You can use a PVC tube if you don't want to buy the clear stuff. Look around the place.

I recommend pebbles with my method as from trial and error the pebbles let more bubbles up easier thus better airflow but hey if you don't have any then use the gravel. As they say 'push with the c**k you got'.


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## bumbleboo (Jun 6, 2010)

AquaNekoMobile said:


> DIY it girl. Here is my page. I did a simple DIY and it works for my 1gal 'sweetie' tank.
> 
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/?saved=1 check it.
> 
> ...


Okay, I'll try it.


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## AquaNekoMobile (Feb 26, 2010)

bumbleboo said:


> Okay, I'll try it.


Not sure what main filter you have on your other tanks or what filters you have on the other tanks. If you have filter floss running in any of the tanks I would recommend you take that out and either use it like I did or if it's too large cut it in half and then use it in that DIY setup while returning the other half into your original filter.

1/2" PVC is sold at Can.T and other places ~$2.xx range per 10ft. Still cheaper think then the clear stuff I got. I think I paid like $5-6 for that at Petsmart. I'm more function over form with the fish stuff and as long as the water conditions are in check that's my main concern as another GTAA member once said after many years of thier fish keeping they learned that if you keep the water in check most other things seem to work out ok. It may look fugly but hey, it works.

If you have a large bucket say a 5gal then you could use something like a thin flat tub (check the dairy isle) or some coleslaw square container from Loblaws. punch a bunch of holes along the 1" perimeter of the top of the container then take the lid off the tub, turn it upside down, poke a hole at the bottom for the air tube, then poke a bunch of holes on the top of the bottom of the tub.

Now in the 5gal bucket you turn the little filter box you made and stick an air tube and stone into that area you made. First layer = last layer as you turn this upside down the first layer will be on top. You add your gravel/pebbles first to weigh the filter down. Next you add your filter sponge/filter floss. Now put the lid on the filter. Put the filter on the bottom of the 5gal bucket bury or part bury it with gravel/pebbles. Turn air on and you got a semi undergravel/sponge filter.

Cheap and uses what you have at home. Carry a multitool with you in the purse and when you're out and about you may see some lucky finds for salvage like if someone throws a fridge out take out the tube line inside which is used for ice/water making. It's like the air tube but just stiffer and translucent. Sturdy scissors can cut it off as well.


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## bumbleboo (Jun 6, 2010)

AquaNekoMobile said:


> Not sure what main filter you have on your other tanks or what filters you have on the other tanks. If you have filter floss running in any of the tanks I would recommend you take that out and either use it like I did or if it's too large cut it in half and then use it in that DIY setup while returning the other half into your original filter.
> 
> 1/2" PVC is sold at Can.T and other places ~$2.xx range per 10ft. Still cheaper think then the clear stuff I got. I think I paid like $5-6 for that at Petsmart. I'm more function over form with the fish stuff and as long as the water conditions are in check that's my main concern as another GTAA member once said after many years of thier fish keeping they learned that if you keep the water in check most other things seem to work out ok. It may look fugly but hey, it works.
> 
> ...


I do have filter floss from my Eheim, so maybe I can use that. I'll try to scrounge up these other things too!


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## AquaNekoMobile (Feb 26, 2010)

bumbleboo said:


> I do have filter floss from my Eheim, so maybe I can use that. I'll try to scrounge up these other things too!


If you're really really pinched (hey who isn't in this ecomony right?) check out plumbing supply stores around your area or check Home Depot and ask if they have any 1/2" or 1" PVC cut offs or 1" PVC tubing tube off. You can still make a filter with a PVC tubing but you'd want a larger diameter unlike the PVC conduit I mentioned before which is ridgid. If you're around the P.Mall around I can help you out as I've some parts around and a pvc tube (flexiable that is) cutter and some spare hosing around.

Edit: Let me check..I think I have some 3/4" PVC around. Yup ok, found some 3/4" potable water PVC piping.

Also just remembered. Got any seniors around your area? I'm sure they're throwing out pill bottles or check the pharmacy. Ask around as you can make mini filters out of those and not to mention they make excellent plug starters.


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## bumbleboo (Jun 6, 2010)

AquaNekoMobile said:


> If you're really really pinched (hey who isn't in this ecomony right?) check out plumbing supply stores around your area or check Home Depot and ask if they have any 1/2" or 1" PVC cut offs or 1" PVC tubing tube off. You can still make a filter with a PVC tubing but you'd want a larger diameter unlike the PVC conduit I mentioned before which is ridgid. If you're around the P.Mall around I can help you out as I've some parts around and a pvc tube (flexiable that is) cutter and some spare hosing around.


Okay, I'll try my best.  Unfortunately Pacific Mall is pretty far for me!

Update on the fishy, she now has white stuff around her mouth... which I think is a fungal infection maybe? So I'm dosing Melafix. I'll continue to dose her as well as the 10 gallon after she moves.


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## bumbleboo (Jun 6, 2010)

Here are some pictures of her... not looking good.  her one gill is pretty red too...




























Notice how much paler she is.


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## bumbleboo (Jun 6, 2010)

I just did a water check again today. Everything is normal, except.. KH which is normally 80, is now 0. Ammonia was 0 on Friday and now is 0.25. 

10% daily water changes? What should I do about the KH?

Edit: I read you can increase KH with baking soda. Is this advisable? How much should I add at a time for a 10 gallon tank?


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## Joeee (Apr 3, 2010)

Not sure about KH, but i know baking soda also increase pH.

But now is definitely the time to move it if you haven't already, fungus is contagious. 

As for treatment, I heard you can actually try to rub it off with a cue tip. Don't try it unless another member of the forum comments on this method, I've never tried it myself and I don't know if it does more harm than good.


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## bumbleboo (Jun 6, 2010)

Joeee said:


> Not sure about KH, but i know baking soda also increase pH.
> 
> But now is definitely the time to move it if you haven't already, fungus is contagious.
> 
> As for treatment, I heard you can actually try to rub it off with a cue tip. Don't try it unless another member of the forum comments on this method, I've never tried it myself and I don't know if it does more harm than good.


Okay! I'm going to keep dosing the 10 gallon with Melafix as well as her bucket.

Yeah, I think I might just do the melafix thing, it's never let me down before and she's already stressed beyond belief.  She's almost white... it's so sad!

I think I might do this, please anyone let me know if they think it's wrong:

Buy a filter cartridge for the Aqua-Tech that I have, or borrow money from my roommate (gahh) to buy an Aquaclear50. Set up the 25 gallon, put all danios but the sick one in there. Normally I do fishless cycle but right now I am desperate I don't want the ammonia to get out of hand.

Move the sick one to a bucket, make a DIY filter (hopefully I can do it without screwing up).

Leave the shrimp, ottos, and 2 tetras in the 10 gallon. Keep checking the water and do daily water changes until the ammonia goes down. It's not too bad now, but I don't want it to get any worse.

Does this sound like a bad idea?


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## Joeee (Apr 3, 2010)

bumbleboo said:


> Okay! I'm going to keep dosing the 10 gallon with Melafix as well as her bucket.
> 
> Yeah, I think I might just do the melafix thing, it's never let me down before and she's already stressed beyond belief.  She's almost white... it's so sad!
> 
> ...


Getting some of the filter squeezings into the other tank will help with the cycle. I don't think you'll actually need filter media to cycle a tank, if you have gravel or some form of substrate then it should be enough for now.

What I would do is move all the substrate from the 10G to the 25G, move the tetras and snail. Leave it alone for a few days with the filter running of course (no media should be fine as the bacteria is able to colonize on the gravel). When you get a nitrite spike, do a 30-40% water change and move everything from the 10G to the 25G (including the filter you have on the 10G).


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## bumbleboo (Jun 6, 2010)

Joeee said:


> Getting some of the filter squeezings into the other tank will help with the cycle. I don't think you'll actually need filter media to cycle a tank, if you have gravel or some form of substrate then it should be enough for now.
> 
> What I would do is move all the substrate from the 10G to the 25G, move the tetras and snail. Leave it alone for a few days with the filter running of course (no media should be fine as the bacteria is able to colonize on the gravel). When you get a nitrite spike, do a 30-40% water change and move everything from the 10G to the 25G (including the filter you have on the 10G).


Sounds good.  I guess I should buy some gravel, and I was thinking of taking some of the plants from the cycled tanks into it as well. I'll put a bit of gravel from my goldfish's cycled tank in there maybe.

Hmm, I actually don't wanna take everything from the 10G cause it's going to be a shrimp tank.  And I think danios might be a better choice if they have to cycle it a little bit? Aren't tetras pretty sensitive to water conditions?


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