# Help me brainstorm! 15-20 gal setup



## mistersprinkles (Nov 4, 2013)

Hey everybody! I'm brainstorming a 15-20 gal (24" long x 12" wide) setup. Based on past experience, this is my favorite size to work with. First, the environment the tank will be placed in:

-Relatively warm room with computer. 75F in the winter 82F in the summer
-No direct or indirect sunlight

Things I'd really like to have in the tank:

female bushynose pleco (I realize it's a stretch)
amano shrimp (they only like up to 78F. A problem in the summer.)
cherry shrimp

How I'd like to decorate the tank:

I want a big Manzanita branch taking up most of the tank
I plan to attach either java fern or anubias to various points on the wood.
I want a branch like this:









fish I'd really like to have:









Scarlet Badis









Honey Gourami









chili rasbora

fish substitutions and suggestions would be most welcome and very much appreciated. I'm trying to set up as cool of a small tank as I can.


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## SwimmyD (Feb 9, 2013)

I like the idea of manzanita wood similar to that branch. My favourite planted tanks are combinations of wood, rocks, and plants. Various sized little stones and pebbles are really interesting in a tank too. A friend of mine has started using oak leaves and it looks completely amazing with wood, moss and rocks. 

Shrimp do a pretty good job of cleaning. Is the pleco for cleaning or because you like them? Ottos also are great cleaners. Amanos get pretty large by the way. Like a couple inches long! We have some that will steal food from smaller fish!

You've picked all very small fish (except for bn) which will be very nice. I've never kept honey gouramis or scarlet badis. But I've seen badis in action, and they are interesting little preditors. You might not be able to have any shrimplets that will last any length of time. The gouramis might do the same? We recently put some very small killifish in with a tank that (had) cherry shrimp. You would never think they could take on a full sized shrimp as they are small. However..I've even seen tiny endlers co-operate in ripping up shrimps at the LFS! Legs get ripped off first! Unbeleivable! 

We have a school of chilies. They are a pretty fish. They don't do much compared to a badis, they just kind of hover. You'd want to have a large school of those. They like to hide too, so you will want lots if plants to keep them comfortable. Cherry shrimp and shrimplets are perfectly safe with them. 
Have fun!


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## Kimchi24 (Mar 22, 2013)

I've had honey gourami in the past and i wouldn't recommend them. I only say that because all they did was stay near the surface. my water level is generally about a centimeter above the end of the trim so i never really got to see them. Other than that, if they are what you want, go for it


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## mistersprinkles (Nov 4, 2013)

Kimchi24 said:


> I've had honey gourami in the past and i wouldn't recommend them. I only say that because all they did was stay near the surface. my water level is generally about a centimeter above the end of the trim so i never really got to see them. Other than that, if they are what you want, go for it


Of course it stayed near the surface most of the time. It's a gourami . I've had lots of gouramis. I like them a lot.



SwimmyD said:


> I like the idea of manzanita wood similar to that branch. My favourite planted tanks are combinations of wood, rocks, and plants. Various sized little stones and pebbles are really interesting in a tank too. A friend of mine has started using oak leaves and it looks completely amazing with wood, moss and rocks.
> 
> Shrimp do a pretty good job of cleaning. Is the pleco for cleaning or because you like them? Ottos also are great cleaners. Amanos get pretty large by the way. Like a couple inches long! We have some that will steal food from smaller fish!
> 
> ...


How about switching the rasboras for pencilfish?









Beckford's pencils come from an environment not unlike what I want to create.


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## Mykuhl (Apr 8, 2013)

The scarlet badis would be cool to keep. I say go with the badis, a group of purple pencilfish(much nicer than beckfords)some otocats and some painted fire red shrimp(again nicer than cherries). You would have a nice theme of red going in your tank. OR do what I did....get a pair(a trio would be better) of Apisto hongsloi, a group of purple pencilfish and some painted fire red shrimp . Again a nice red theme and the apistos and the PFRs will breed in this set up. The pencilfish act as good dither fish and won't eat the Apisto's eggs or fry, and neither will the shrimp. 

If you do decide to go the apisto route; I can provide you the Apistos, the PFRs and the Java ferns . I don't have extra pencilfish though, in fact I want to get several more.


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## mistersprinkles (Nov 4, 2013)

I'll definitely buy the Java ferns off you when the time comes (not setting this up until around Xmas time. Boxing day deals baby!)
I've never been much into apistos though. Don't know why. They were just never my thing. How do you keep your apistos? Straight tap or do you soften and lower pH?


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

Add some moss to the wood, mayby flame moss or something


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## mistersprinkles (Nov 4, 2013)

pyrrolin said:


> Add some moss to the wood, mayby flame moss or something


I'm not a fan of mosses. Thank you very much for the suggestion though and please keep them coming. I like Anubias and Java fern and that's about it.

About the badis- I watched some you tube videos including some owner experiences. The common thread was that they don't like prepared foods like flake or pellets. They only like frozen or live. That's a considerable pain in the butt. They're also very slow eaters, meaning whatever schooling fish I get will eat all the food before the badis get any. I'm leaning away from badis now. I'm at a loss for a small cutesy fish with personality...


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## Mykuhl (Apr 8, 2013)

I treat my water with Salty Shrimp's Black water powder and use Indian almond leaves. This softens and lowers the PH.

Hmmm...you might still try the badis with the pencilfish. I find that my apistos are slow eaters too(well some of them anyway) and my pencilfish let the apistos eat without rushing in to take all the food. In my experience pencilfish are kinda shy and will give place to more agressive fish in the tank. Frozen food is not really a pain, all you have to do is defrost it and feed it, its the live food that is the pain, but if you feed a variety of good frozen food you won't need live. If you don't get the badis you could go with dwarf rainbows or Laetacaras or Nanaacaras for small cute fish.


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## Rigio (Jul 23, 2013)

mistersprinkles said:


> amano shrimp (they only like up to 78F. A problem in the summer.)


I keep my Amanos in a tank with Germany blue rams, the tank water is 85F. The Amanos are doing great, the female is currently berried


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## mistersprinkles (Nov 4, 2013)

Rigio said:


> I keep my Amanos in a tank with Germany blue rams, the tank water is 85F. The Amanos are doing great, the female is currently berried


I'm surprised Amanos can tolerate such a high temperature! That makes me worry less about keeping them at 82 in the summer.


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## mistersprinkles (Nov 4, 2013)

Nobody else has any fish or invert or decor suggestions?


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## Rigio (Jul 23, 2013)

mistersprinkles said:


> Nobody else has any fish or invert or decor suggestions?


Attach phoenix moss to the branches of your driftwood, it would eventually take over the branches and make a really cool effect.


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## Kimchi24 (Mar 22, 2013)

I think I may be the only one that enjoys the look of algae growing on rocks. I had that on my old shrimp setup and absolutely loved it.


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## Rigio (Jul 23, 2013)

Kimchi24 said:


> I think I may be the only one that enjoys the look of algae growing on rocks. I had that on my old shrimp setup and absolutely loved it.


Shrimp love it....


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## mistersprinkles (Nov 4, 2013)

I plan on having algae growing all over he tank. The only trick will be keeping it off the plants


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## Mykuhl (Apr 8, 2013)

Lol....good luck accomplishing that!


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## SwimmyD (Feb 9, 2013)

If you have a BN on your clean up crew, you won't have algae everywhere, unless it's BBA! Cuz sadly- BN's and shrimp don't touch it! 

I like pencilfish a lot, but there are big differences in the behaviour of beckfords, and other types. My friend has beckfords, and they school nicely and hover like helicopters around the tank. Very peaceful. We have coral reds (which have amazing colour), but are way more aggressive. They don't school so much. 95% of the time they are sparring with each other. Impressive displays- no real damage done. They do not like to share their food AT ALL. We've had issues trying to feed our green laser cories because they eat and eat and eat. They don't stop. We finally found slightly larger pellets that the corals can't fit in their mouths - and we feed the cories while the pencils are busy eating their own pellets. Even if you put wafers or repashy down for the cories- the pencils aggressively chase away the cories. However the colours in this tank are spectacular with a red and green theme. We also have flame tail apistos, who will chase off a pesky greedy coral red - so they can hold their own in the tank. The cories- not so much against the corals. They are a bit afraid of them and hide a lot!


















I've seen purple pencilfish. They are really pretty. They look very much like coral red pencils in body shape and colouring. I'm not sure how they act though- if like beckfords or corals. Finnatics had some a few weeks ago.

Overall I like theme tanks. Whether it's a colour, a particular region or biotope, or species. If you like gouramis- why not a variety of them? I've seen chocolate gouramis rarely, and they are pretty freaking amazing. The honeys are also really pretty, and pygmys are so cute. I have no clue as to their temperaments but can you get a nice variety? Can they coexist?


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## mistersprinkles (Nov 4, 2013)

SwimmyD said:


> If you have a BN on your clean up crew, you won't have algae everywhere, unless it's BBA! Cuz sadly- BN's and shrimp don't touch it!
> 
> I like pencilfish a lot, but there are big differences in the behaviour of beckfords, and other types. My friend has beckfords, and they school nicely and hover like helicopters around the tank. Very peaceful. We have coral reds (which have amazing colour), but are way more aggressive. They don't school so much. 95% of the time they are sparring with each other. Impressive displays- no real damage done. They do not like to share their food AT ALL. We've had issues trying to feed our green laser cories because they eat and eat and eat. They don't stop. We finally found slightly larger pellets that the corals can't fit in their mouths - and we feed the cories while the pencils are busy eating their own pellets. Even if you put wafers or repashy down for the cories- the pencils aggressively chase away the cories. However the colours in this tank are spectacular with a red and green theme. We also have flame tail apistos, who will chase off a pesky greedy coral red - so they can hold their own in the tank. The cories- not so much against the corals. They are a bit afraid of them and hide a lot!
> 
> ...


Where is Finnatics now? I know he's not on Kennedy Rd. any more. Has he split into two locations? That's what I heard. Where are they? Is he stocking more than just Africans now?


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## SwimmyD (Feb 9, 2013)

Whoa! Coral red pencils are just in at R2O! Check his thread out! That's where we got ours! Amazing fish! Wild caught! We got our green lasers from him too. I think he has those in as well with his recent shipment from Peru. He's at Dixie and Dundas. 

Finnatics is on Dixie Rd north of the 401. Lots of different fish- not just cichlids. But if you ever wanted cichlids - it's the place to go!


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## mistersprinkles (Nov 4, 2013)

Thanks but it does me no good for pencils to be in stock now. I'm not setting up until Jan 1st(ish).


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