# Importing 'the package' from TBS



## Wiser (Jun 8, 2017)

so with the dollar hovering around 80 cents, I took the plunge and ordered 'the package' from TBS. Pickup is Thursday in Buffalo. 

I'm a bit nervous of crossing the boarder, but I've read a couple other threads that it wasn't a big deal, so fingers crossed. 

I'll report back after the first pickup for anyone else that is interested.


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## nc208082 (Jun 27, 2013)

Isn't bringing live rock across the boarder illegal? I've thought that was why we can't bring frags attached to rock across. Or has this changed?

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## slipfinger (May 11, 2016)

Wiser said:


> I'm a bit nervous of crossing the boarder, but I've read a couple other threads that it wasn't a big deal, so fingers crossed.


I'm just guessing, but maybe that is why he made this comment.


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## corpusse (Jan 3, 2011)

It's legal if you have a cites permit.


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## nc208082 (Jun 27, 2013)

corpusse said:


> It's legal if you have a cites permit.


Does cites permit cost money or do you just have to apply for one?

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## carl (Feb 11, 2010)

Cites permits cost money and take some time to get


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## nc208082 (Jun 27, 2013)

Thank you Carl

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## Wiser (Jun 8, 2017)

Hey guys. It's not illegal. You can import live rock without a CITIES permit. 

You can't import live rock with Coral on it. They inspect it and only send pieces without Coral. 

I can't find the original link, but I grabbed this from a Reef Central thread by Jinx (who was/is a member here)... it does say in Paragraph 3 that aquacultured LR is exempt from CITES, ie. you can import it to Canada.

The TBS guys send the aquaculture certificate you show at the border. More nervous about the PIA border guard who might not know what to do. 


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## Wiser (Jun 8, 2017)

There is also different processes for driving it across vs flying it in. But I'm not going to pretend to know the ins and outs of the whole thing. 


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## nc208082 (Jun 27, 2013)

ok I am now confused, I looked up what the package was, and the live rock they use is covered with life. But you have asked them to send you pieces with absolutely nothing on it?


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## Crayon (Apr 13, 2014)

Having brought fish and corals across the border many times, but never live rock, here is my advice and what I know.
Yes, Jinx did bring rock across and she had no trouble. She also brought an octopus up. 
I cross at the Rainbow bridge, make sure I have all my paperwork and receipts and pay all my taxes.
It's important to tell customs this is for personal use and that I am not a store or selling to anyone else.
If I am bringing fish across, I have a sheet with the Latin name and Red List status (endangered, least concern, not evaluated etc etc). That helps a lot.
If I am bringing corals, do the same thing, but remember that some corals are not allowed to be imported without permits, and it's important to know which ones.
Octo corals, leathers, mushrooms, zoas, sponges are not a concern. It also seems to help to make the same list with Latin names, red list status for corals, too.
Justice Canada website is where I found the information.
In all the trips I have made, I have never been turned back or had anything taken away. Maybe I'm lucky. I have had my car searched, and in one case waited almost 45 minutes while the agent looked up every single coral.
Yes, it can be intimidating.
The border agents sometimes don't know what to do, but they know to ask a supervisor. The supervisors know what to do.
Good luck with your endeavour.


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## guelphjay (Mar 10, 2014)

nc208082 said:


> ok I am now confused, I looked up what the package was, and the live rock they use is covered with life. But you have asked them to send you pieces with absolutely nothing on it?


No no no. The key is no Coral on the rock. You're paying for all the extra life.

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## guelphjay (Mar 10, 2014)

Crayon said:


> Good luck with your endeavour.


Thanks. Great advice.

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## Wiser (Jun 8, 2017)

Update. Crossing the boarder was a breeze. Zero issues. Gave the guy the bill and the certificate. Paid some duty. I was probably 10-15 minutes total between the first boarder guard, verifying it all with a 2nd guard and paying the duty. 


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## nc208082 (Jun 27, 2013)

Awesome. Definitely show some pics when it's in your tank 

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## advanced reef aquatics (Apr 20, 2009)

Live rock requires cities. Always has.
If you want to take your chances, go ahead.
I've imported enough to know. 
Cities also can not be done at land crossing.
Lastly, you can declare your rock as " aquarium decoration "
Better than arguing with border about what you read on the internet.


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## Wiser (Jun 8, 2017)

Hi Guys, 

Last time I'm going to address this before moving on. There are a whole bunch of threads arguing this on other sites. I spoke to the guys at TBS specifically about this before ordering. 

My understanding is that flying in live rock requires CITES. Driving it across does NOT, but there can't be any coral on the rock. This might possibly be different for personal use vs commercial sale, but I don't know and it's not relevant for this thread. 

Here is my experience and further the guys at TBS said they do this pretty frequently and have not had any issues. I haven't heard or seen any direct or secondary stories of anyone being stopped for CITES driving live rock across the border in my research. Please cite the case and I will be happy to learn. Otherwise, as far as I'm concerned this is dis-information. 

I've made two trips. Part 1 - 11 boxes which included all the live sand and most of the live rock. The aquaculture certificate and receipt are attached to one of the boxes. At the crossing I gave the boarder guy the aquaculture certificate and receipt for the boxes as well as a short description which he asked for. I was completely truthful that it was limestone rock that had been sitting off the coast of Tampa in an aquaculture facility (which the certificate also stated). 

He sent me into the boarder building. I spoke to another boarder guard who asked a few more questions, paid the duty and was on my way. It was really painless. 

Part 2 - 5 boxes has more live rock, all the CUC (hermits, snails, stars, cucumbers etc) and they threw in a couple bags of sponges etc because they were short a few cucumbers. Hat tip to Cheryl, I had all the names etc of the livestock in the boxes ready. At the boarder again had the receipt and certificate. The guy seemed happy that I had all this information ready. He asked a couple questions didn't ask to see the other info (which was in my hand) and waved us through. Zero issues, didn't even have to go into the building.


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## Wiser (Jun 8, 2017)

Here's some pictures of Part 1.

The tank is a standard 180. 6x2x2.

Full tank shot. This was only _half of the rock_ in the order. Uh-oh needed to make an amendment to the order. I want some swimming space so need to reduce the amount of rock for Part 2. I received quite a few large rocks as well as flat ones, but I also got a ton of small/medium sized that were harder to aquascape with. If you think the left side looks like a pile, while it pretty much is, of the smaller rocks.



There is tons of life on the rocks, which is a bit hard to seen. There are tons of sponges, feather dusters and other stuff. I was pretty impressed. I did have some unwanted hitchhikers. In part 1 I had a handful of gorilla crabs, whelks and a Mantis. Also had quite a few hermits, snails, two baby star fish and about 5 porcelain crabs that I saw. Side note there were probably 5+ porcelain crabs that didn't survive the trip for some reason.

The biggest surprise was ... I was pulling stuff out of the bags ...oh that's an awesome conch. I don't really want to throw it in as decoration and my son (2 year old) would think its cool. Pick it up and a hermit the size of my fist comes firing out. It scared the poop out of me. He's in the sump for right now. I'm thinking about tossing him in the display because he reminds me of the crab in Moana and a conversation piece plus I don't think he'll be that hard to catch if he is hell in a shell.


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## advanced reef aquatics (Apr 20, 2009)

Whether your driving or flying rock has no bearing if you require cities or not. scleritinia as it's referred to under cities appendix, does require proper cities due to bacteria on rock. At land crossings you can not provide cities docs as I've learned.
I'm sure you can talk to 10 border guards an get 6 different answers.
The above info was obtained by my lawyer at the time I was importing.
Good that you got across, at a land crossing they are not as well versed. Had this come through Pearson it might have been different.
Either way, enjoy the rock and tank.


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