# killifish



## igor.kanshyn

Hi,

Does anyone keep killifishes here?

























Look at this, it's beautiful.


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## AquariAM

Frank breeds them in his basement. call him at his store (franks aquarium)
those first two are always available in the trade. Frank usually has the second one (lyretail) at the store. Easy to care for. Ballsy like a cichlid, tiny like a rasbora. 
One of the few small fish I like.


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## igor.kanshyn

Thanks, AquariAM
I'm not ready to buy them, but I will be pleased to look at them 

I read they needed quite low pH. It should be about 6.5
Maybe not all of them.


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## AquariAM

Nope. Not those. This interesting Character Richard Sexton I used to know bred them for years. He kept eggs in the freezer and just brought them 'out of carbonite' or cryogenic stasis or something funny he said when he wanted killis. Alkaline pH for most species.

They need nothing. No heater, relatively small tank, basic filtration. Just make sure the room is a stable temperature. Bout 72ish I think he said was ideal. I haven't spoken to him for six years, which is sad because he was a great person.

5.5Gal tank (even 3.5 if thats all you have), spongefilter, airpump. Done.

Also keep in mind they only live like a year or so, so you'll want to learn about the mop method and have a seperate tank to grow out the youngins. It's weird and interesting.

Just remember they hate water current.


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## dl88dl

igor.kanshyn said:


> Thanks, AquariAM
> I'm not ready to buy them, but I will be pleased to look at them
> 
> I read they needed quite low pH. It should be about 6.5
> Maybe not all of them.


When you get a chance go visit Frank and you can ask him anything on Killifish. His been keeping these fishy for 35 to 40 years and has many tricks on Killifish.


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## igor.kanshyn

Thank you guys!

I'm fascinated. I read about Frank and his love to these fishes.
His store is on the other side of Toronto, but I will try find a reason to visit that area.

Do you keep killifishes now?


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## AquariAM

If you need a reason to visit Markham, it's home to various scenic Tim Hortons with great views. Enjoy a fake hot chocolate with fake whipped cream overlooking beautiful Markam. Or go to Frank's. Or both. or go to Franks with a coffee. Now that's multitasking.

If nothing else killifish are funny. They always make you laugh. Whether it's eating a pellet bigger than their head, or attacking your arm and trying to kill you when they are only 1".


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## bae

Unfortunately, most of the "advice" AquariAM gave you is misleading or wrong.

Killies are widely distributed over the temperate and tropical regions of both hemispheres. There are even a few species in Canada. They are found in very soft acid waters of tropical rainforests and in brackish water and in temporary pools and ditches and in desert springs with water several times saltier than sea water. They range in adult size from two to twenty cm.

The first picture is a male Nothobranchius. There are dozens of species of this east African genus and most are spectacularly colored. These are annual fish that live in pools that only contain water in the rainy season. The adults lay eggs in the mud and die when the pools dry up. The eggs hatch the next rainy season, and the fish mature in a matter of weeks. In captivity these fish can survive as long as 18 months or two years. You can buy eggs by mail and hatch them after their dormant period is up. They do fine in Toronto water and most people add a little salt to prevent velvet disease (Oodinum) to which they are extremely susceptible.

I've got 4 pairs of Notho. foerschi which I hatched from eggs around New Years. I've kept them cool and they have been laying for about 4-6 weeks. This is a small notho. If all goes well I should have young fish to sell in late summer, or I may sell my breeders once I'm sure I have plenty of good eggs.

The second picture is Aphyosemion australe, a west African species that lives in permanent waters and can live as long as most small aquarium fish. It's been bred in captivity for many generations and is very adaptable to water conditions. It should do fine in Toronto tap water. It's relatively small and peaceful. The third photo is another Aphyosemion of the Chromaphyosemion group. These guys are also fairly small, and many but not all are easy to breed and care for.

There are hundreds of species in the Aphyosemion/Fundulopanchax species group. They are all brightly colored. Fundulopanchax spp tend to be larger and rowdier and some are annual or semi-annual. All these fish have amazingly large mouths and can eat things almost as big as their heads. Some spawn on the bottom, some spawn near the surface, and some will do both or either.

While most killies will live longer at cooler temps, only ones from high altitudes in west Africa really require cool temperatures. No, you can't freeze the eggs, but some of the annuals do require a resting period before they'll hatch. Room temperature is fine -- chilling will kill the eggs.

While aggression and cannibalism (of eggs, fry and smaller siblings) can be a problem. species vary. Some of the non-annuals can be kept in permanent colonies where enough of the eggs and fry will survive to keep things going, and you can thin out the surplus now and then. Heavy planting, especially of fine-leaved plants, helps.

While many species will eat dry food, some require live or at least frozen food. Some of the fish in the Cyprinodon, Fundulus and Aphanius groups are algae eaters, but these are less commonly kept.

There are a lot of sources of information on the web, far more than in print. One place to start is the American Killifish Association (http://www.aka.org) which has a free beginner's manual that you can download. There are several very good websites on Nothobranchius. There's a wonderful website on west African killies, which is unfortunately down right now due to computer problems. (http://www.killifish.f9.co.uk).

People can get obsessed with killies and fill their basements with dozens or even hundreds of small tanks, so have fun but be careful they don't take over your life!


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## AquaNeko

How much do killies go for on avg? Say ball park basic to fancies? I assume the OP's pic are fancies.


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## AquariAM

bae said:


> Unfortunately, most of the "advice" AquariAM gave you is misleading or wrong.
> 
> Killies are widely distributed over the temperate and tropical regions of both hemispheres. There are even a few species in Canada. They are found in very soft acid waters of tropical rainforests and in brackish water and in temporary pools and ditches and in desert springs with water several times saltier than sea water. They range in adult size from two to twenty cm.
> 
> The first picture is a male Nothobranchius. There are dozens of species of this east African genus and most are spectacularly colored. These are annual fish that live in pools that only contain water in the rainy season. The adults lay eggs in the mud and die when the pools dry up. The eggs hatch the next rainy season, and the fish mature in a matter of weeks. In captivity these fish can survive as long as 18 months or two years. You can buy eggs by mail and hatch them after their dormant period is up. They do fine in Toronto water and most people add a little salt to prevent velvet disease (Oodinum) to which they are extremely susceptible.
> 
> I've got 4 pairs of Notho. foerschi which I hatched from eggs around New Years. I've kept them cool and they have been laying for about 4-6 weeks. This is a small notho. If all goes well I should have young fish to sell in late summer, or I may sell my breeders once I'm sure I have plenty of good eggs.
> 
> The second picture is Aphyosemion australe, a west African species that lives in permanent waters and can live as long as most small aquarium fish. It's been bred in captivity for many generations and is very adaptable to water conditions. It should do fine in Toronto tap water. It's relatively small and peaceful. The third photo is another Aphyosemion of the Chromaphyosemion group. These guys are also fairly small, and many but not all are easy to breed and care for.
> 
> There are hundreds of species in the Aphyosemion/Fundulopanchax species group. They are all brightly colored. Fundulopanchax spp tend to be larger and rowdier and some are annual or semi-annual. All these fish have amazingly large mouths and can eat things almost as big as their heads. Some spawn on the bottom, some spawn near the surface, and some will do both or either.
> 
> While most killies will live longer at cooler temps, only ones from high altitudes in west Africa really require cool temperatures. No, you can't freeze the eggs, but some of the annuals do require a resting period before they'll hatch. Room temperature is fine -- chilling will kill the eggs.
> 
> While aggression and cannibalism (of eggs, fry and smaller siblings) can be a problem. species vary. Some of the non-annuals can be kept in permanent colonies where enough of the eggs and fry will survive to keep things going, and you can thin out the surplus now and then. Heavy planting, especially of fine-leaved plants, helps.
> 
> While many species will eat dry food, some require live or at least frozen food. Some of the fish in the Cyprinodon, Fundulus and Aphanius groups are algae eaters, but these are less commonly kept.
> 
> There are a lot of sources of information on the web, far more than in print. One place to start is the American Killifish Association (http://www.aka.org) which has a free beginner's manual that you can download. There are several very good websites on Nothobranchius. There's a wonderful website on west African killies, which is unfortunately down right now due to computer problems. (http://www.killifish.f9.co.uk).
> 
> People can get obsessed with killies and fill their basements with dozens or even hundreds of small tanks, so have fun but be careful they don't take over your life!


 AFAIK the 20cm species are not true killies? I may be wrong? (ie golden wonder killi), and Richard Sexton must and the Delta Guppies guy who's name I forget must have lied to me about freezing eggs of amphyosemion australe.


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## bae

AquariAM said:


> AFAIK the 20cm species are not true killies? I may be wrong? (ie golden wonder killi), and Richard Sexton must and the Delta Guppies guy who's name I forget must have lied to me about freezing eggs of amphyosemion australe.


Fundulus catenus, from the southern US, gets to 20cm. There are also some huge and very strange killies at high elevations in the Andes, notably Lake Titicaca and environs, but you're never going to run into them. I can't remember the genus name, but they are related to Cynolebias et al. "Golden wonder" killies are Aplocheilus lineatus, and they can get to 10cm. They belong to the small group native to India and SE Asia. There are some common Fundulopanchax spp, e.g. blue gularis, that get to 12cm+.

Richard Sexton is very good at pulling legs. A.australe is a non-annual and the eggs don't have a resting stage. They hatch in 10-14 days depending on water temperature. I expect an hour in the fridge might kill the eggs.

Try not to post information that's exclusively from hearsay, unless nobody else has anything to contribute after a few days.


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## AquariAM

bae said:


> Fundulus catenus, from the southern US, gets to 20cm. There are also some huge and very strange killies at high elevations in the Andes, notably Lake Titicaca and environs, but you're never going to run into them. I can't remember the genus name, but they are related to Cynolebias et al. "Golden wonder" killies are Aplocheilus lineatus, and they can get to 10cm. They belong to the small group native to India and SE Asia. There are some common Fundulopanchax spp, e.g. blue gularis, that get to 12cm+.
> 
> Richard Sexton is very good at pulling legs. A.australe is a non-annual and the eggs don't have a resting stage. They hatch in 10-14 days depending on water temperature. I expect an hour in the fridge might kill the eggs.
> 
> Try not to post information that's exclusively from hearsay, unless nobody else has anything to contribute after a few days.


That's bizarre.. I've heard two people who breed killis say they freeze and store eggs... They don't know eachother... I believe you that it may be untrue I just think it's odd they'd both say it is all. Dough White that's the other guy. And yes Richard Sexton, if you've ever met him, is extremely good at pulling legs and a very hilarious person.


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## cichlidsam

> That's bizarre.. I've heard two people who breed killis say they freeze and store eggs... They don't know eachother... I believe you that it may be untrue I just think it's odd they'd both say it is all. Dough White that's the other guy. And yes Richard Sexton, if you've ever met him, is extremely good at pulling legs and a very hilarious person.


I've never heard of freezing per se, but I do know some breeders store their eggs on the basement floor to keep them cool and slow down development significantly. This seems a more likely scenario than putting them in the freezer. Killie eggs don't usually survive winter shipping, so there's definitely a lower temp limit to their viability. By the way, the opposite is true as well: some breeders put their eggs in heated incubators to speed up egg development.

FYI, Frank has A. australe red/orange (2nd pic) in his store the last time I checked (last week). They're beautiful and easy to keep, though breeding them can sometimes be hit and miss, despite their reputation as good beginners' fish. Frank'll give you lots of great advice. He's got some other great smaller fish, too...like various Czech Apistos.

I have about 15 species/locations of killies but most are in "egg storage" stage or just hanging around in my tanks...haven't had much time to raise fry recently. However, I may be hatching out some more Nothobranchius rachovii (1st pic) soon. Various pics on my site: http://cichlidsam.com (still work in progress).


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## Darkside

I have a pair of Fundulus diaphanus and I think they get to at least 10 cm. I also have some of the non-annual lampeye killifish, I'd like to get some more of them too if Harold doesn't sell them all before I can get there!


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## Suen

franks aquarium

http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q&sour...ear=8380+Kennedy+Rd,+Markham,+ON&z=16&iwloc=A

definitely the killi master

lots of fish places up in markham, just do a search in google maps. there's at least four good ones around steeles/kennedy area


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## Suen

i love my lyretails; i have a male and two females from Frank. they eat frozen bloodworms and crushed Hikari carnivorous sticks. only had them for about two weeks, in a tank with a 5 guppies...i hope their eggs won't get eaten...probably will though


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## Suen

fascinating; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devil's_Hole_pupfish


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## rs79

If I said you can freeze killi eggs I was either kiddig or misunderstood, but killies are amazingly cold tolerant. Some, in fact do not do well above 65F - and these are from equitorial Africa and are found in the forest basement. bochleri/herzogi and the diapteron group are good examples of this.

In South America Cynolebias adloffi (or whatever the hell Costa is calling it this week) is so cold tolerant it can be found under ice covered ponds.

Brian Watters once sent me a dozen species of extremely rare Notho eggs for distribution into Canada and I left them outside in my porch and there was a frost that night yet all the eggs were fine, perhaps that is the source of confusion.

Temperature IS important with killies, while none I know of actually require a heated tank the eggs, due to the environment they're from can get quite warm. Not so much the plant spawning species but more the annual species that live in ephemeral pools that dry up. In equatorial climes, dark barely moist mud gets quote warm and one of the things we've learned recently is the long term storage of eggs may not be what we think.

For example the 9 month incubation of Pt. zonatus can be reduced by 2/3 or more by keeping the eggs at 85F and people that know about this now measure incubation times in weeks not months.

Of course this affects only the species that lay eggs in the substrate then die when the pool dries up - the true annual species, most Killies are "plant spawners" live in small creeks -the dutch name for which is "kill" and there are places in New York such as "Fishkill" which means "the small creek with fish in it" and the origin of the term killifish comes from something like this.

Currently the greatest expert on killifish is Dr. Lynn Parenti at the Smithsonian and this excerpt from one of her biographies makes it more plain:

"Lynne was born on August 6, 1954, in New York Hospital, Manhattan, New York. When Lynne was two years old, she and her family moved to Staten Island, the rural borough of New York City. They lived on Arthur Kill Road, which ran down the southwestern coast of the island along the Arthur Kill, the waterway separating Staten Island from New Jersey. It was while exploring the salt marshes and decaying docks along that river that Lynne encountered her first killifishes, later to become the subject of her PhD dissertation."

This would be "Arthur Creek" if people from England had named if but Manhattan was colonized by the Dutch so the name of that body of water is half English and half Dutch.

Richard Sexton
http://images.killi.net

P.S. I can't tell who you folks are from the screen names but can make a guess. James and Bev?

P.P.S. I only found this by accident doing some research so may not be here often ut can be found on Facebook for no good reason. I'm not hard to find and all my old email addresses still work.


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## bluegularis

*Hi Richard*

Please note Richard that you are replying to a post that is more than 4 years old.

Hopefully these people are still into killies.


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## rs79

Haha, yes, I can read dates ;-)

People are actually now more into them than at any time in history because of the advances in social media and the number of known populations of SJO has doubled in recent history.

For example, here's one that was collected last year in Cameroon:

http://images.killi.net/s/SJO/Funge/ADK_10-32/00-0-Copr_2013-Sebastien_Thibeaud.jpg

It corresponds to the "Funge" and "Loe" forms and is unlike the Blue Gularis known in the literature which is from Nigeria.

Curiously the type-specimen SJO is based on is from Cameroon and not Nigeria.

http://images.killi.net/s/SJO/Niger_delta/01-0-sjo.jpg

From Eschemeyer's Catalog of fishes:

sjostedti, Fundulus Lönnberg [E.] 1895:191 [Öfversigt af Kongl. Veterskaps-akadeiens forhandlinger v. 52 (no. 3); ref. 14584] Waterfall of the Ndian River (4°57'N, 8°53'E) and Bonge, western Cameroon. Syntypes: ZMUU 272 (2). Type catalog: Wallin 1996:61 [ref. 32133]. Originally as sjöstedti; since name is not of German origin, the species should be sjostedti and not sjoestedti. •Valid as Aphyosemion sjoestedti [sic] (Lönnberg 1895) -- (Wildekamp et al. 1986:236 [ref. 6198] with a holotype [no holotype was established originally], Seegers 1988:49 [ref. 19980], Romand in Lévêque et al. 1992:601 [ref. 21590]). •Valid as Fundulopanchax sjostedti (Lönnberg 1895) -- (Wildekamp 1996:207 [ref. 23649], Murphy & Collier 1997:797 [ref. 25585], Lazara 2001:135 [ref. 25711], van der Zee et al. 2007:109 [ref. 30034] as sjoestedti). Current status: Valid as Fundulopanchax sjostedti (Lönnberg 1895). Nothobranchiidae. Distribution: West-central Africa. Habitat: freshwater.


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## bluegularis

rs79 said:


> Haha, yes, I can read dates ;-)
> 
> For example, here's one that was collected last year in Cameroon:
> 
> http://images.killi.net/s/SJO/Funge/ADK_10-32/00-0-Copr_2013-Sebastien_Thibeaud.jpg
> 
> It corresponds to the "Funge" and "Loe" forms and is unlike the Blue Gularis known in the literature which is from Nigeria.
> 
> Curiously the type-specimen SJO is based on is from Cameroon and not Nigeria.
> 
> http://images.killi.net/s/SJO/Niger_delta/01-0-sjo.jpg
> 
> From Eschemeyer's Catalog of fishes:
> 
> sjostedti, Fundulus Lönnberg [E.] 1895:191 [Öfversigt af Kongl. Veterskaps-akadeiens forhandlinger v. 52 (no. 3); ref. 14584] Waterfall of the Ndian River (4°57'N, 8°53'E) and Bonge, western Cameroon. Syntypes: ZMUU 272 (2). Type catalog: Wallin 1996:61 [ref. 32133]. Originally as sjöstedti; since name is not of German origin, the species should be sjostedti and not sjoestedti. •Valid as Aphyosemion sjoestedti [sic] (Lönnberg 1895) -- (Wildekamp et al. 1986:236 [ref. 6198] with a holotype [no holotype was established originally], Seegers 1988:49 [ref. 19980], Romand in Lévêque et al. 1992:601 [ref. 21590]). •Valid as Fundulopanchax sjostedti (Lönnberg 1895) -- (Wildekamp 1996:207 [ref. 23649], Murphy & Collier 1997:797 [ref. 25585], Lazara 2001:135 [ref. 25711], van der Zee et al. 2007:109 [ref. 30034] as sjoestedti). Current status: Valid as Fundulopanchax sjostedti (Lönnberg 1895). Nothobranchiidae. Distribution: West-central Africa. Habitat: freshwater.


There is currently allot of disagreement on Funge & Loe, some argue it is one and the same fish just found several KM's apart, it definitely does not look like the niger delta sjo. There is a study group in the AKA which is looking into some aspects of this. It would be nice if Glen Collier could do some DNA studies on these and find out what their relationship is. I am no expert and I will leave it to them to disagree and come up with their conclusions or not.


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## rs79

Pfft.

The types are from Cameroon; making the case for Nigerian forms being assigned to another species is without merit modulo some compelling reason I'm not aware of and I do follow this stuff and have or a long time.

Van der Zee and Sonnenberg are currently sequencing BAT/SPL/KUZ; I'll drop them a line to see if they can use these as outliers, that should provide some answers.

Is Glenn C. still active in the lab? He published his masterpiece in '89 and had worked on it or 20 years afaik.


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## jimmyjam

Hey igor, I hope this sparks something in you to make a killifish hotel like how you did with the shrimps =P Ill buy !


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## rs79

*SJO Fnuge wins at AKA convention*

That's a first, the first time a Cameroon from of SJO has won the gularis class at the AKA national convention before. The fish was bred by Jeff Wasly from WAKO the Wisconsin AKA chapter.

http://img.killie.fish/s/SJO/Winners/2015/00-0-Copr_2015-AKA-Firsts.jpg

THIS:
http://img.killie.fish/s/SJO/Loe/01-0-Copr_2014-WAKOs.jpg

(Note also I moved the site from killi.net to killie.fish a change that took 15 years; all old urls will work if you change "killi.net" to killie.fish". Note as well kil.fish works too as does img.kil.fish which I made to keep names short, ie img.ki.,fish/s/SJO is stil where photos of gularis live and img.kil.fish/a/AUS is where photos of lyetials live and so on.)

Ciou


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## skylane

Thank you for that great read!!!

I'm very interested in these fish , I had a killifish , but it jumped to its death, and now I know why, jumpers! It was a golden wonder killifish, but now you guys really inspired me more.

Clem.


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