# mandarin goby is being a challenge



## Letigrama

hi all,

I got a mandarin goby about 10 days ago, a little one, I put him in my frag tank. I knew for a fact there was pods in it as I seen a few. From the moment I put him in there, he picks at the rocks, like if he's eating, is he eating? I dont know, I dont think he's skinnier than when I got him, but he's not much fatter.

Plan #2; i went to my overflow box that has some algae and pods love it. Got a bout 15 pods in my little net and transfer them to the frag tank. Did I see the mandarin eating any? no, but may be he found them later.
Question about this one, the pods were pretty big, could some be too big for my mandarin?

Plan #3- I hatched baby brine shrimp. FAIL!! my mandarin completely ignored them while my blue chromis went crazy for them.

WHAT TO DO!!!

I see him picking at stuff all the time. he also picks a bit of sand and spits sand after, like other gobys do. I dont mind getting a lot of pods if I need to, but I dont know if he's even eating them!

I researched on the internet but other than PODS and baby brine shrimp... I guess my next one is try mysis frozen. Oh BTW, totally ignoring frozen brine shrimp too.


----------



## TankCla

I have my mandarin since Oct last year. I don't feed her. She is picking the rock and I saw her only a few times taking frozen food. 
She is not fat nor skinny. I wouldn't be too worried about the dragonet in a mature reef tank.

And yes, she is a female.


----------



## deeznutz

It's important to have plenty of live rock and a tank that's matured enough with mature live rock. The pods that they are eating are very small. They can be seen, but are very very small. Like a grain of sugar. As long as he's picking, odds are he's eating. But they can deplete the pod population quite fast.

The mature live rock is important because this is where the pods will live and reproduce. It's also a place for refuge. MOst frag tanks I've seen do not house enough love rock to sustain a mandarin.

It's not uncommon for mandarins to stave in captivity due to lack of a food source. I hope you can offer enough pods to keep this guy going. I've never fed a mandarin before and the ones I have kept would either parish in a few weeks or be around for years.

HTH

-dan


----------



## 50seven

If he's picking at the rocks in a deliberate manner, he's most likely eating. He may not necessarily be visibly corpulent, but he can still be very healthy. 

The copepods that he eats are very tiny, about a millimeter long and hard to see. Probably not the ones that you found and tried to feed to him.

I think your tank is mature enough, and big enough too. Just don't get a wrasse as it will out compete the mandarin for food. 

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Tropicana

Letigrama said:


> hi all,
> 
> I got a mandarin goby about 10 days ago, a little one, I put him in my frag tank. I knew for a fact there was pods in it as I seen a few. From the moment I put him in there, he picks at the rocks, like if he's eating, is he eating? I dont know, I dont think he's skinnier than when I got him, but he's not much fatter.
> 
> Plan #2; i went to my overflow box that has some algae and pods love it. Got a bout 15 pods in my little net and transfer them to the frag tank. Did I see the mandarin eating any? no, but may be he found them later.
> Question about this one, the pods were pretty big, could some be too big for my mandarin?
> 
> Plan #3- I hatched baby brine shrimp. FAIL!! my mandarin completely ignored them while my blue chromis went crazy for them.
> 
> WHAT TO DO!!!
> 
> I see him picking at stuff all the time. he also picks a bit of sand and spits sand after, like other gobys do. I dont mind getting a lot of pods if I need to, but I dont know if he's even eating them!
> 
> I researched on the internet but other than PODS and baby brine shrimp... I guess my next one is try mysis frozen. Oh BTW, totally ignoring frozen brine shrimp too.


Hey there, whenever I buy a mandarin I always have luck with frozen brineshrimp to start getting them on frozen mysis. I have been successful 3 times just squirting some frozen brineshrimp near my mandarins and they take it readily. None of them were tank raised. Just turn the pumps off and give it a go. (just saw that you tried already)

Brineshrimp isnt the best long run, but once you see the belly start to fatten up its reassuring that he is not going to die any time soon. Then you can try small frozen mysis shrimp.

Although in the summer you can grown brineshimp in a large bucket outside. Juts put your dirty WC water in it and keep it in the sun. place BS eggs and bam huge colony in a month.


----------



## fury165

i'd suggest you are better off concentrating on culturing copepods in standalone containers. Here is something I posted in a discussion about Ruby Red Dragonets.



> It is not that difficult to culture your own copepods in standalone containers. I culture Tigriopus californicus "Tiggerpods" from a starter culture I bought from ReefAquatica - I also noticed Canada Corals is carrying them as well.
> I put them in three shallow plastic containers and feed them PhytoFeast http://reef nutrition.com/phyto_feast.php. They really can't eat regular green Nannochloropsis Phytoplankton and do best with brown Isochrysis phytoplankton. Phytofeast has a mixture of planktons and is super concentrated so only a few drops are needed to feed the cultures every day (just enough to make the water cloudy)
> 
> There are quite a few guides out there but this is the one I've had the most success with. http://www.ultimatereef.net/forums/showthread.php?p=2526269


Canada Corals got a new shipment of Tiggerpods and Phytofeast last weekend. Done right and you will have an "endless" supply from one purchase of Tiggerpods.


----------



## Dax

As long as the mandarin is continually picking at rocks it is a good sign. The only problem is if the pods run out which you will be able to tell just by watching the feeding behavior. The mandarin will slow down and rest often before hunting. This will last for weeks to months so I'd say just wait and see. Assuming there is no competition for pods, you should be ok.


----------



## Letigrama

hi all,

Thank you for the feedback.

baby bs doesnt work

I will try raising copepods as i have Phytofeast in the freezer 

The mandarin was tried in the DT, and was taken out the same afternoon. My six line wrasse almost ate him alive. Hence he went to the frag tank. Frag tank is not a mature tank at all, but I put rubble from the DT with my nems constantly, and yes, he loves when i put new rocks and he looks for food. He is constantly picking.... I can definetely rotate rocks from my sump pump to my frag tank as they will be full of pods and other things and this will be giving him new sources of food. At this point I want to do whatever to make sure he doesnt starve until i get the right culture going on. Tigerpods it is.


----------



## noy

Letigrama said:


> hi all,
> Tigerpods it is.


Actually my recommendation is not to get the trigger pods. They are a tide pool copepod and will not thrive except if they are raised in separate grow tank (no easy task). They will make a very good meal for your fish however and that's about it.

I've bought them before 2x and found they just get chomped fairly quickly. I don't think they live within the rockwork and don't seem to thrive in the refugium. Waste of money imo.

You should try to target feed your mandarin with the baby brine - get a squirter (like a Julian's thing). You might want to give the live brine a try too. Best bet is to keep training him to eat brine/Mysis and then eventually pellets.


----------



## notclear

If all failed, try to get those ROE for making sushi from Asian supermarket. Before you feed the eggs to the Mandarin, rinse them thorough as they are seasoned.

The use of ROE for feeding Mandarin successfully in a nano tank was documented in an article on a magazine that I can't remember which one, either Coral Magazine or Tropical Fish Hobbyist, a few years back. I followed and now I have 3 fat Mandarins.


----------



## videosilva

I got my Mandarin at about the same time as yours. I like you was worried about eating. I actually removed it one night from one tank to another as it looked REALLY pale as if it was dying.

Well it turns out that it is NORMAL for them to loose color at night and seem as if they are dying. 

I also read that if they are picking at the rocks and you see their mouths sucking ( trying not to be perverted but it is difficult ) they are most likely eating.


----------



## 50seven

videosilva said:


> I got my Mandarin at about the same time as yours. I like you was worried about eating. I actually removed it one night from one tank to another as it looked REALLY pale as if it was dying.
> 
> Well it turns out that it is NORMAL for them to loose color at night and seem as if they are dying.
> 
> I also read that if they are picking at the rocks and you see their mouths sucking ( trying not to be perverted but it is difficult ) they are most likely eating.


+1 this freaked me out at the beginning too!  but soon enough I figured out what was going on.

If you have a mature tank and a thriving refugium, you should have a good enough continuous food supply for your little guy.


----------



## Patwa

videosilva said:


> Well it turns out that it is NORMAL for them to loose color at night and seem as if they are dying.


they are sleeping.

it's what happens when certain fish sleep or are stressed, they lose colour



videosilva said:


> I also read that if they are picking at the rocks and you see their mouths sucking ( trying not to be perverted but it is difficult ) they are most likely eating.


they are eating...there's no grey area here. they eat pods that are so small you cannot actually see them easily with the naked eye

mandarins eat virtually non-stop, they eat during the daylight hours and sleep at night.


----------



## marblerye

+1 for tiggerpods NOT being the solution for seeding a tank. They aren't benthic type pods as they thrive in the water column where they can get picked off easily. Great for a one time meal but if you're buying them to seed a tank it's a waste of money. Culturing them in a separate tank takes time so you'll have to culture multiple batches and feed them often which will be a lot of work.

I've had success raising dragonets for years; it's tedious and requires a lot of work but training them to eat pellets is your best bet. Mind you, after achieving this your job isn't over. Maintaining a steady supply of copepods is a must as they feed all day during lights on and when you decide to feed them pellets they'll take that too and then continue to feed on pods. They don't ever stop eating unless they're sleeping so you can easily get the idea that one mandarin dragonet can easily wipe an entire tank clean of pods unless it's being fed a steady supply via a refugium or separate culture tank. Lots of porous live rock and a large mature tank can easily house a mandarin dragonet but keep in mind if you have other fish competing for its food you hit a dead end. Six line wrasse is a fish that eats pods continuously therefore it's not the best fish to house in the same tank. They also eat bristle worms as well.

You mentioned pulling pods from your overflow and feeding the mandarin those, sounds like those are amphipods. My dragonets didn't eat amphipods often unless they were tiny enough to fit in their mouth. Plus the fact that amphipods are fast swimmers meant they'd only eat them upon surprise discovery, not like a predator chasing prey type scenario.

Just keep an eye on their belly to see how it's doing. A totally sucked in stomach means it's starving and over time its body will tighten up and its spine(?) along its sides will show which will be an obvious sign it's really not going go make it.


Best of luck!


----------



## fury165

marblerye said:


> +1 for tiggerpods NOT being the solution for seeding a tank. They aren't benthic type pods as they thrive in the water column where they can get picked off easily. Great for a one time meal but if you're buying them to seed a tank it's a waste of money. Culturing them in a separate tank takes time so you'll have to culture multiple batches and feed them often which will be a lot of work.


Since I posted about *standalone culturing* the Tiggerpods, I'm going to weigh back in here...
Tigriopus californicus and Tisbe are Harpacticoid copepods. Harpacticoids are *benthic* which means that they are found in the water column, but near the bottom, often resting on glass, micro algae and detritus at the bottom of the tank.

Have you or Noy actually cultured them? I have been culturing the same two batch of Tigriopus californicus for almost a year and satisfied with the ROI. I only bought the second because I thought my cultures had crashed but gladly they did not.

I suggested Tigriopus californicus since they are easy to start with. After setting up the vessels, I feed them a few drops of phyto a day.

Maintenance consists of fresh water top ups as required and water change monthly. I harvest weekly from one culture, but expect to be able to do it daily soon. Certainly easier than the other live foods i culture - live black worms and baby brine shrimp.

Feeding: I had JT make me a feeder that only the dragonets can get into. It rests in the sand and I use a feeder tube to fill the diner. The Mandarin has learned to visit for food. I also made another diner that. I'm testing out - so far so good.

The cultured pods are a great way to supplement and add variety to their diet. I'm going to branch out to culturing Tisbes again and Nitokra lacustris.

I think it is great if they take to prepared foods but that is IMHO a long shot and the Mandarin will most like likely die before that happens. mine hunts all day in the rocks, but will eat frozen brine if offered, no flakes pellets or Mysis (too big).


----------



## mauricion69

Hey Fury, any idea as to where I can find the tisbe pods locally?.. Ive been looking for a while.


----------



## Tropicana

I would like to mention one thing, if you leave moon lights on(fairly bright ones) your mandarin may not go to sleep right away, and will continue to swim active looking for food. It can tire them out since they are not resting. I noticed this with my mandarin as i left the moon lights on at night for a few weeks until i realized he never slept. But, my tank was open concept and no caves for him to swim into and sleep. 

Just a heads up! .


----------



## fury165

mauricion69 said:


> Hey Fury, any idea as to where I can find the tisbe pods locally?.. Ive been looking for a while.


Reefaquatica sells them but you usually need to preorder, check with Hubert.


----------

