# Continued from Sponsors - The Menagerie



## MT-ED (Apr 4, 2006)

EDIT: This kind of cross-references with: http://gtaaquaria.com/forum/showthread.php?t=240 Re: The Discus competition.

Intro: Back in the Menagerie thread I posted pictures of my _Sewellia lineolata_ that I purchased from Harold.

Based on Ciddian and nightowl1350's comments and Q's I thought it more appropriate to continue the thread here in Cyprinids.

The first time that I successfully bred a species of Hillstream Loach was in 2001. I had kept several species in England in a community tank specially set up as what is now known generically as a River-Tank. During a day of inspiration, I thought up the idea of my River-Tank manifold:









This is something easily constructed in most countries and here a trip to Home Despot will get you the necessary PVC pipe and adhesive. The sponges I have used in the past were intake prefilters for pond pumps, around 4" high and 4" dia. Other people have adapted various sponges depending on what is available locally. The sponge acts as a great mechanical and biological filter.

Using this in a 50 gallon tank powered by two Aquaclear 802 powerheads provided a great home for the fish in my first of these setups.
I think that it's possible that my _Pseudogastromyzon cheni_ bred, but the mixture of fish including _Schistura _species probably means eggs or fry got eaten.

I moved some of my fish here in April 2001 when I came over to get married. When I returned for good in September 2001, I carried my hillstreams in my carry-on luggage. They lived in a small holding tank for a while until we did some tank re-arranging and that opened up a 65 for them. Even carried over a River-Tank manifold broken down in my suitcase for the purpose 

We did a trip up to Lake Superior and collected some rocks and driftwood. I set up the tank when we returned. Once established, it looked like this:










Almost exactly two weeks later, I found baby _cheni_ in the tank:










The male digs a pit in the gravel using his tail. They slide backwards off of a rock:










After the male and female take turns in the pit, it is covered over. The eggs and babies stay hidden for around two weeks, then 4mm long babies appear:










Now obviously, the first time this happened the change to a new tank obviously triggered the spawning. Subsequently though, no special changes were made and I've had multiple spawns. Having now spent a lot of time with these fish I've noted that to an extent there breeding is seasonal and not necessarily brought about by anything in particular. Right now mine are going through the motions, my friend's fish in Indiana are spawning and someone else in England reported there's are also. 'Tis the time. Spring is in the air 

I've also bed _Liniparhomaloptera disparis_ and co-wrote an article on that in the November and December 2002 editions of FAMA. Note the baby at right, half way up the picture, in front of pebble:










They have a different cryptic pattern compared to baby _cheni_ the same size.
Great thing with both these species is they do not predate on their eggs or fry, so babies can be raised in the same tank. This is important because they graze on the biofilm present in the established aquaria.

My Sewellia setup is a 30 Breeder alongside a 10 gallon regular tank. They are linked by a Big Als sourced 1" diameter J-tube syphon as a return and a small mini-powerhead moves water to the 10 gallon, so effectively the tank holds around 40 gallons. I can do water-changes without going into the fish holding tank and disturbing them.








Lots of lighting for algae growth, and a bunch of HOBs hanging on the back. Actually added another just because I had it laying around.









The 10 has no decor, just a sponge for some more biohome and a filter bag full of Almond leaves.









The main tank has a single sponge intake R/T manifold powered by one Aquaclear 802 powerhead. There's a 4" Rena ceramic airstone providing bubbles, plus a direct air feed to the powerhead venturi system. No shortage of oxygen here!










I'm now farming algae for these guys on my balcony:









Do they need algae? Watch this:



























That's 5 fish and a 1.5 hour duration on the 3 pics  It's around 42 sq/ins of algae! Yes they need and certainly like algae. I'm figuring that it may be essential to providing them with a stimulating enough diet to stimulate breeding. I also feed Omega One Shrimp pellets, HBH Veggie Wafers, thawed frozen _Mysis_ shrimp and Bloodworm. Plus I have my own recipe of frozen home-made food containg white fish, shrimp and other stuff which they get a little of occasionally.

So now it's fingers crossed time.

Martin.


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## Brian (Mar 14, 2006)

That rivertank setup and the powerhead with pvc thing is genious!

I am going to start farming algae like you soon just cause you inspired me to get my... BN's to spawn 

What is that grey loopy thing on the algae farm for? And also, you keep the tank out in the winter also?? Any problems with mosquito larvae? I know I wouldn't have any problems with the larvae itself but I don't like mosquitos...


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## MT-ED (Apr 4, 2006)

Thank you....I have these odd periods of lucidness 

You might find that something as simple as throwing in a powerhead would stimulate them. I'm of the opinion that many Loricarids would be happier with more current in their tanks. You have only to look at them to work out that their shape, big pectorals and sucker mouths are just a different way of dealing with strong current than the physical developments seen in Hillstream Loaches. I seem to recall that current has at least been found useful in breeding Zebra plecs, but I bet it would work with others too. Someone bred _Farlowella_ in a setup based on my design. It's illogical to keep any fish in an environment totally unlike it's native waters.

That grey thing over the algae-farm tank? That's a Random Flux Magnetic Force Field Inducing Coil.
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.
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No....actually it's a device that a previous owner of the cube tank made up (I believe) to provide a place to clamp a lamp on. The shape of the tank doesn't lend itself to available light units designed for aquaria. I just left it clipped onto the tank to confuse people 

I only set the tank up a few weeks ago, but we were still experiencing sub-zero night temps, so there's actually two heaters in there.

Mozzys like stagnant water, so this is aerated. Someone else who's tried this found it increased algal growth quite markedly. I set up the tank using aged tank water drawn off during a water change marathon (5 tanks). I seeded it with algae cleaned off of other tanks glass and fertilized the water. Another thing with the mosquitos is I'm on top of a tower block, so I'm not even sure if they can fly this high? Anyhow, should I get any, I'll just feed the larvae to the fish. Good live food source. Yeah, I don't want West Nile virus either.

I used a hydroponics liquid fertilizer my wife has used for years in planted tanks and.............I peed in the tank  Don't laugh, this works. I did an experiment years ago in a no fish, planted tank and got great results with plant growth. So far it's working with algae and no, the water actually smells quite sweet  I'm sure the aeration helps there.

As you can see, I believe in thinking outside the (glass) box.

Martin.


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## Brian (Mar 14, 2006)

I'm not too comfortable with touching my own piss... , even though I do it by accident occasionally anyways (at night, lol).

The thing is I don't have a "starter" source for algae so I would just have to work with a bare 5gal or a bucket of water on the balcony and good ol' sunlight... 

I don't get direct sunlight much though as I am underneath another balcony and it usually gives some shade unless it is at certain times of the day that the sun is shining onto my balcony.

I just threw 2 males and a female BN into my 10gal betta fry tank with a PVC pipe, we'll see how it goes :S

So yea, I think I'm just going to put a bucket of water onto my balcony, and some rocks or soemthing for the algae to grow on... don't have plant ferts. even though I have a lot of amazon swords, lol and maybe I will take a leak into the bucket...

Did you let yourself go into the bucket or only some?


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## MT-ED (Apr 4, 2006)

Hehe! My "dosage" was about half a coffee mug full into the 10 gallon (ish) tank.
I'm experimenting, so didn't want to overdo it. That was a couple of weeks ago. I'm just thinking it might need a "top up".

Note to yourself: Never, ever accept coffee or tea if you're round my apartment  

Martin.


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## Brian (Mar 14, 2006)

Lol, don't you ever cringe at the thought that you are touching your urine and your fish are feeding off of it?

I know it is one of the cleanest fluids around but you can't help the fact that there is uric acid in there that in my opinion, smells foul.


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## MT-ED (Apr 4, 2006)

Ever eat organic vegetables? What do you think they grow up on?  

Blech! What goes around, comes around  

Martin.


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## Ciddian (Mar 15, 2006)

Oohh god, hearing about the "other" uses for wizz just kills me. ^^

Thank you for covering our questions thou martin!  You are so awesome


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## holocron (Mar 12, 2006)

this thread has earned you an extra ballot... well done! 

Do those algae eating loaches eat plants? or are they community safe? If so I'd love to get one.


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## MT-ED (Apr 4, 2006)

ooh extra ballot...cool!

Yes, they are absolutely community safe and don't eat plants.

BUT!!!!!.....you must, must, must provide excellent aeration and masses of current, so your community needs to be composed of current-loving fish.

My 65 has mixed species of _Gastromyzon_ (often called "Borneo Suckers"), _Beaufortia_ (most commonly seen as "Chinese Butterfly Loaches" or something similar), _Aborichthys elongatus_,_ Schistura_, _Sinobotia pulchra_, _Danio roseus_ and _Danio choprai_.
Zebra Danios, Pearl Danios, or Whiteclouds make nice cheap and easily obtainable alternatives as dither-fish.

Basically, don't put these fish into a "regular" community tank and either expect them to survive or to prosper. They require specialized aquaria because they've developed over millions of years to a specialized environment.

Martin.


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## Brian (Mar 14, 2006)

Matt, I doubt you would be able to keep them in your community as you have discus in there and they don't like current at all


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## MT-ED (Apr 4, 2006)

Brian said:


> Matt, I doubt you would be able to keep them in your community as you have discus in there and they don't like current at all


Errrrr...yeah Matt, if you have conditions suitable for Discus that's about as far from right for these guys as you can get. No bout adoubt it.

Mutually incompatible.

http://www.filelodge.com/files/room17/433639/HILLFL.PDF A flyer for education of the masses.

Martin.


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## Brian (Mar 14, 2006)

MT-ED said:


> Errrrr...yeah Matt, if you have conditions suitable for Discus that's about as far from right for these guys as you can get. No bout adoubt it.
> 
> Mutually incompatible.
> 
> Martin.


Lmao, I like you


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## holocron (Mar 12, 2006)

well looks like i am SOL doesn't it. 

oh well, thanks for letting me know!



MT-ED said:


> Errrrr...yeah Matt, if you have conditions suitable for Discus that's about as far from right for these guys as you can get. No bout adoubt it.
> 
> Mutually incompatible.
> 
> ...


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## Pablo (Mar 27, 2006)

nice job. ive never seen baby hillstreams. This setup (unidirectional) is also great for most plecos. Especially to get them in the mood.


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