# Will I be Overstocked?? Dwarf Puffers, Bumblebee Gobies, Shrimp, ADF



## MrTOTW (May 28, 2011)

Hey Guys,

I was wondering whether you think I can have these inhabitants in this tank:

10 Gallons 20 x 10 x 12

Fresh Water

Lighting: 

2 11W Flourescent 2700 Kelvin Bulbs

Filter: 

Tetra Whisper PF10 

Substrate: 

Fine Gravel

Plants:

3 Cabomba Bunches

Dwarf Hair Grass 

2 Amazon Plants

1 Anubias Plant

1 Moss Ball

Current Inhabitants:

2 Male Dwarf Puffers 

4 Ghost Shrimp

2 African Dwarf Frogs

Desired Addition to tank:

2 Bumblebee Gobies (brachygobius xanthozona)

2 Red Claw Shrimp (Macro Shrimp) 

1 Amazon Sword Plant

What do you guys think? 

I am wondering if my filter can handle the bioload.

Also, I am considering supplementing the plants with Flourish and Flourish Excel considering I have Ikea Flourescent Bulbs  and Regular Substrate

1 Puffer only eats pond snails which I breed specifically for him and the other eats almost exclusively Frozen Bloodworms

Everything else in the tank is fed BW's. Ghost shrimp were added to see how they fare with the DP's, they don't seem to be interested in them at all.


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## Hitch (Apr 26, 2009)

with the two puffers in the tank. Those ghost shrimps will not last long, as I use to feed my dwarfs with ghosts once in a while. Those shrimps will be constantly hunted until eventually eaten.

I feel the same might happen when you add the macro shrimps, as I have seen dwarfs taken down full grown red claw crabs.

with that said, I would worry about the frogs in there also...dwarfs are not as aggressive/nippy as other puffers, but I feel like they will still pester these slow moving frogs.


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## MrTOTW (May 28, 2011)

I was very skeptical of DP's and GS being able to coincide in the same tank, specifically after reading about several cases (including yours) where they are not compatible and also after my old DP that I don't have anymore nipped the antennae off my GS, however, It has been 2 weeks, probably not the longest I could wait before making anything near an educated assumption, and these new DP's haven't paid the slightest attention to the GS- even less to the ADF, In one instance an ADF, having poor eye sight, lunged at one of my DP's thinking he was food and practically made him fly across the tank , that's the closest I've had to an altercation. Do you think even after a substantial time there is a likelihood of there being any problems? I would have no problem separating them though. 

Those macro shrimp get up to 3 inches and with those claws, I'd be worried about the puffers!


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## default (May 28, 2011)

hey, i would personally get a larger filter it would make things easier in the future too  but your live stock seems fairly reasonable, just considering what your puffers eat the waste must be higher than usual. only things are you have plants that would sometimes lose their leaves, wilt or rot away. you just need to keep an eye and remove pieces of loose leaves before they rot. also with these livestocks your ghost shrimps might be in the trouble.
-good luck


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## Hitch (Apr 26, 2009)

I dont know how aggressive macro shrimps are, but like I said, I had red clawed crabs in the same tank as my 2 dwarf puffers and they made a dinner out of the crabs.

As for the ghost, these puffers dont get to the point where they learn to tolerate the shrimps as anything other than food. So if they catch them, they will eat them. Of course giving the shrimps enough hiding spots will help.

And like default said, more filtration cant help. I was never a fan of the tetra filters, and I imagine its rated for 10 gal? I would personally get enough filtration for a 20 gal at least. (personally all of my tanks have filters rated for 2-4x the actual tank volume)


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## MrTOTW (May 28, 2011)

Yes, I was afraid of my filter not being powerful enough, as I received my filter in a 10 gallon starter kit probably not designed for puffers and according to AqAdvisor.com, my tetra filter isn't powerful enough for the bio load, however I have a friend who has a brand new (up to) 10 gallon filter that he never got around to using that he's kind enough to give me and although these sites probably aren't 100% accurate, AqAdvisor.com gave it at least double the filtration capacity. The filter is: Aqueon Quiet Flow 10 Power Filter. I was thinking of either replacing the tetra filter with this new one, or cutting a hole in my 10 gallon tank's cover and lamp holder so that I can fit both filters. I was afraid if I buy a 20 gallon filter that I would be blowing my fish around in the powerful water currents. Already the puffers sort of look like fish you'd see in a marine tank with a wave maker in the same sense that they are constantly pushed away from the current at some parts of the tank. What would you guys recommend?


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## MrTOTW (May 28, 2011)

Well, Hitch, looks like I have some pretty push over puffers.  haha Seeing that they haven't exhibited much of their darker side. jkz lmao 
But I will keep an eye on the ghost shrimp, if I do see any aggression I will be sure to separate them, that goes for the macro shrimp as well if I do end up getting them. The Macro shrimp (Red Claw Shrimp) are relatively, and I do stress the word relatively, peaceful compared to other Macro shrimp, or so I've read on different web profiles for the shrimp, however they are still known to be aggressive enough where no more than 2 specimens can reside in a 10g tank, so almost the same stocking you would usually hear someone say about DP's (2-3 for 10 gallon). At Big Al's, they have the Red Claw Shrimp classified under yellow, for "community fish with other fast swimmers", but again, the pea puffers there were classified as green for community fish if I'm not mistaken. So, I don't know how accurate that is either. 

All in all, I'm considering stocking the tank with a couple more plants, just to give everybody enough hiding spots, I already have 8-9 plants if you were to count the moss ball. I don't know if that's enough. But if I should get more plants, which ones would anyone recommend for the current lighting fixture I have, I am worried 2700 Kelvin won't be sufficient as I believe the sun is around 6000 (?) and also what, if any, supplementation would anyone recommend for the plants considering I have only regular fine gravel in my tank. 

Thanks.


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## default (May 28, 2011)

oh those red claw shrimps can get quite mean. of course depends on the individual shrimp but they can become quite aggressive and towards creatures that would be near the bottom. proceed with caution.
and two filters would be more effective then one lol. ust remember those "up to gallons" on the filters are way too inflated. for example i have a 45 gal, with up to 160 gals of filtration.


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## MrTOTW (May 28, 2011)

They're having a $ 3.99 special for Red Claw Shrimp at the North York Big Al's location, before that, I never heard of Red Claw Shrimp, but it's been a few days since they brought them in, (Saturday, I think) I'm hoping they haven't run out or anything. Any good fish stores around or close to Richmond Hill? The Petsmarts near my location just don't seem to be on par with Big Al's..


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## default (May 28, 2011)

best pet store in my opinion that is close to you is the big als in scarborough. been to north york and scarborough the most and personal experience, the service and quality of the fish room and workers are way better at the scarborough location. great people, and awesome quality livestock. they have tons of plants aswell and super clean. also they sell those shrimps you were talking about. they have big ones that were carrying eggs. -btw those shrimps breed quite easily, and often fight for food, quite interesting species of shrimps to look at, so be prepared for shrimplings, my buddy has them breeding in his tank.


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## MrTOTW (May 28, 2011)

That would be awesome if they have those shrimp at the Scarborough location, I will call tomorrow to make sure but if that is the case it saves me a trip because then I could pick up the BB gobies and the shrimp from the Scarborough location (they don't sell BB gobies at Big Al's in North York). I sure hope they breed but considering I have 10 gallons of tank space, I don't think I could fit more than 2 of those shrimp. I don't even think the additional bio load would be the issue, I think they would be a little too aggressive with anything more than 2 in the tank, no?


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## default (May 28, 2011)

i believe they do, or perhaps i may have been mislead by the "whisker shrimp" that looks very similar. maybe different name but similar species? also they have the bb goby - awesome fish, likes salt though. but back to the breeding, if they breed that would be good, good sign they would be healthy, also would be free protein/nutrition for the other habitants(if you look at it like that lol). but forsure call big als and ask before missioning there for no reason =P


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## MrTOTW (May 28, 2011)

I picked up 2 Red Claw Shrimp and one of them died for no apparent reason a couple of hours after I introduced it to my tank which is weird because ammonia, nitrate, nitrite, ph were all tested and were okay.  However the other seems to be doing okay, I'm going to have to go back to Big Al's and pick up a buddy for him.  Hopefully they will breed.


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## default (May 28, 2011)

sometimes things just happen i guess. sad for the lost, but good luck on the others!


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## MrTOTW (May 28, 2011)

Ok Guys, so my tank is at full stocking ( I believe )

10 Gallons

3 BB Gobies
2 Red Claw Shrimp
1 Ghost Shrimp
3 Crystal Red Shrimp (Couldn't resist getting them) 
2 Dwarf Puffers
2 African Dwarf Frogs

1 Moss Ball
1 Java Fern
2 Amazon Swords
3 Bunches of Cabomba
Dwarf Hair Grass
and a s***load of algae


I would like to gradually add some more RCS, however in 10 Gallons, better to be safe than sorry. I don't know how much bioload a couple RCS would add, I know they tend to be sensitive to ammonia though. 

I am so confused, I've always been told the DP's would act overwhelmingly aggressive towards other fish and should be housed species only.. etc etc
My Puffers are peaceful yet far from timid, always coming to the front of the tank when I'm around begging for food, in fact at BA, they have them labelled as green for community fish and they reside with shrimp and fish in one tank as well, the 2 Red Claw Shrimp dominate the tank and only occasionally nip curious fish whenever they come around to see what the shrimp is eating. No one picks on my ADF, everyone says they're slow moving etc etc, my RCS do not turn into food, not even noticed and my gobies don't act territorial to the extent of aggression even though 10 Gallons is (presumably) enough for them to each establish territory, they sometimes stick together as well. 

So what's going on? I made sure to carefully monitor my fish, adding species in intervals of 1-2 weeks making sure no one would turn into food or be bothered and so far so good. 

I'm extremely confused because I have a feeling most people would swear my tank would turn into a battlefield.


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## MrTOTW (May 28, 2011)

I forgot, and 1 Anubias plant


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## default (May 28, 2011)

hey sounds good everything is cooperating! lol but yet seems like you're complaining. creatures never have one personality, so some say a creature is aggressive but some end up being docile and non aggressive. just only with time is when you will see if everything grows together or the whole balance collapses... just hope that everything is fine together  also it helps if you have hiding spaces and seperated territories so they wont fight for a certain space.
-good luck!


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## default (May 28, 2011)

perhaps you should update us with a picture! see the whole setup.


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