# planning my purchase and looking for your opinions



## chinamon (Jun 16, 2012)

so im planning on my big purchase next saturday to get my 30gal started for CRS. i plan on picking up the following and would really appreciate your opinions and expertise;

30gal tank
glass tank cover
eheim 2213 (filled 1/3 foam and 2/3 eheim substrate pro)
4 x 4kg fluval ebi stratum
thermometer
sponge filter
powerhead
light

now, im torn between two lights. aquatic life t5 high output dual bulb 36" fixture or marineland double bright LED. which would you pick? or is there something else in the same price range?

am i putting the correct stuff in the filter?

do i need to put a sponge filter with powerhead or would the eheim be enough?

i will be using RO water. what do i need to add to the water besides dechlorinator?


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## getochkn (Jul 10, 2011)

chinamon said:


> so im planning on my big purchase next saturday to get my 30gal started for CRS. i plan on picking up the following and would really appreciate your opinions and expertise;
> 
> 30gal tank
> glass tank cover
> ...


I would ditch the fluval soil and go for some either ADA soil or Netlea or something else. The Fluval won't buffer the pH down for CRS and if it doesn't it won't keep it there for long.

What size 30gal are you thinking? I would go for a 30 or 40gal breeder over any tall tank. Shrimp like floor space, so the bigger the length and width, is better over the height. Plus a higher tank like 24 or 30", it's hard to get in there and scoop shrimp out. A wider tank with only 18" height is easier to work in.

I wouldn't go with a top, it will keep heat in and CRS like cooler temps.

You don't need a powerhead really unless you're going to attach it to the sponge filter. If it's just a powerhead in the tank like a Koralina, you just have a fancy shrimp shredder.

I would go with the 2217 for more power for a bigger tank that size. A 2213 is probably good for a 20gal but something bigger, you'd want a bigger filter.

If you're using RO, you don't need a dechlorinator, but you need a remineralizer like Mosura, Fluval, Shikara, Borneo Wild, etc.

The Marineland double brights are ok and would do good for most plants and mosses and stay cool and last a while. Either way with a T5HO or a Double Bright, you may need to rise the lights above the tank, especially if you go with a lower height tank.


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## Symplicity (Oct 14, 2011)

OK if you want a good setup

*-ADA substrate or Netlea soil (if you cant find ADA)*
*-TDS + Thermometer in one for $15! TDS is important! (ebay it)
-Buy a full API Freshwater Master Kit + GH/KH test kit*
*-Mineral Rocks*
-T5H0 is good ..... no other exp with LED.
*-Dual air pump (1 goes to Air Stone, 1 goes to sponge filter, or UGF)
-Sponge filter*
-Mosses and low maintenance plants (beware of anubias)
-Any bio media really works well, i use the bio rings
-since its a 30g a UGF might not be practical.... a sponge filter + canister filter should be good enough...add another sponge over canister intake also!!
-start off with 100% RO water and dose minerals accordingly to reach 1KH 5-6GH and TDS of 130-180

Add shrimp after 2 months to be safe. leave lights on 12hrs a day to build a nice layer of algae on glass. only clean front glass leave side glass to grow algae.

Research Mosura products. Not needed but help alot. Especially establishing good bacterias like Rich Water and BT-9.

p.s shrimp supposedly don't like high currents so no need for a power head.... yet my shrimp love to hang onto waving pieces of moss in the outflow stream lol


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

Is the tank in the living room for show or more like in a fish room setting? Problem with getting a big tank is that you can't get too many unless you have a lot of room and fund. Problem with smaller tank is that you need a light/filtration for each tank and it can be messy. My way is to use a 40G breeder and divide it into 3 sections. So it depends on your goal. If you want to have more species or selective breed, you want more tanks or at least more sections.

I find T5HO too much for shrimp tanks, unless you're doing a planted tanks with shrimps. If the main purpose is shrimp then I say find T5NO. I have a dual T5NO 36" (21wx2) on my 3" 40G breeder and I can't be happier. More than enough for moss and not using a lot of hydro. It uses about half of power comparing to a dual T5HO.

Another suggestion which I did wrong is don't use bigger pieces of DW. If you like DW then find the flat ones. Use two or three instead of a big chunk. Reason is... shrimps tend to hide in the back of big pieces and it's hard to observe. And if shrimps die behind the DW, you may not find it and it may dirty the water (if not eaten fast enough).

Filter-wise, canister is a better choice. If looks isn't an issue, big HOBs are also great. But canisters are said to have better filtration power, look better, and easier to control the flow direction.

For sponge, I think air driven is better unless it's the main bio filter. With air driven sponge, not only you get filtration, you also get more oxygen in water which is VERY IMPORTANT for shrimps.

Here is my suggestion, go to youtube, search for crystal shrimp, and while the videos may be for showing you the shrimps, steal the idea of tank set up from the ones you like, but don't do something too crazy like those 8 cyclinder Japanese canister filters ;-)


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## chinamon (Jun 16, 2012)

i will head to AI tomorrow after work to see what substrate they have.

im picking up a 30gal breeder tank from BA. i believe the dimensions are 36" X 18" X 12". i am keeping the tank in my basement and i left some water sitting overnight there and it was around 68F so im not too concerned about the temperature. i want the glass cover to reduce evaporation which is why im also leaning towards getting the LED light due to its lower heat.

as for the filter, would the 2215 be sufficient? its good for up to 95gal.

which mosura product is used for remineralization? i dont see anything about remineralizing on the canadian website.



getochkn said:


> I would ditch the fluval soil and go for some either ADA soil or Netlea or something else. The Fluval won't buffer the pH down for CRS and if it doesn't it won't keep it there for long.
> 
> What size 30gal are you thinking? I would go for a 30 or 40gal breeder over any tall tank. Shrimp like floor space, so the bigger the length and width, is better over the height. Plus a higher tank like 24 or 30", it's hard to get in there and scoop shrimp out. A wider tank with only 18" height is easier to work in.
> 
> ...


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## chinamon (Jun 16, 2012)

I have a tds meter and ph meter arriving in the mail soon and I already have the API master test kit and gh/kh test kit. Also have some mineral rocks coming in the mail. I will be plantin mostly moss and some java ferns. Already have Mosura rich water but I will grab some bt-9 as well.



Symplicity said:


> OK if you want a good setup
> 
> *-ADA substrate or Netlea soil (if you cant find ADA)*
> *-TDS + Thermometer in one for $15! TDS is important! (ebay it)
> ...


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## chinamon (Jun 16, 2012)

The 30gal will be in my basement since it is a little cooler down there. My current 10gal is in my kitchen and the water is around 77-78F without a heater for my cherry shrimp. I will add a sponge filter with dual air pump (I already have the air pump from before) instead of using a powerhead.



randy said:


> Is the tank in the living room for show or more like in a fish room setting? Problem with getting a big tank is that you can't get too many unless you have a lot of room and fund. Problem with smaller tank is that you need a light/filtration for each tank and it can be messy. My way is to use a 40G breeder and divide it into 3 sections. So it depends on your goal. If you want to have more species or selective breed, you want more tanks or at least more sections.
> 
> I find T5HO too much for shrimp tanks, unless you're doing a planted tanks with shrimps. If the main purpose is shrimp then I say find T5NO. I have a dual T5NO 36" (21wx2) on my 3" 40G breeder and I can't be happier. More than enough for moss and not using a lot of hydro. It uses about half of power comparing to a dual T5HO.
> 
> ...


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## carmenh (Dec 20, 2009)

If you decide to go with the double bright, I have one for sale. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## CrystalMethShrimp (Apr 27, 2010)

Hey,

Your getting some great advice from geto, randy and symplicity. Especially the part about letting your tank waiT for 2 months before adding the shrimps.



The majority of your set up is correct.
I would make the suggesstion of going with a 2213 though b/C you don't want too much water flow and b/c shrimps have a low bio load it's more then enough. Remember that if it's rated for 30gal it's with 10 or so fish. You have shrimps.

Get netlea over AdA. And get a mini pack of small grain size sub to put on a top layer. It produces a much better appearance and it's easier for shrimplets to pick and find foods since they can't lift the larger grains. Remember I want a thick layer that's atleast 2 inchs as this will last 1.5 years of buffering capacity with r/o water. 

Careful with the bt-9. I would suggest you add it in tiny increments AFTER you've added your shrimps to the tank so they slowly become accustomed to this new bacteria. Remember every aquarium has thie own unique bacterial culture and in the end you canr breed shrimps well without first breeding a good bacteria culture. 

Avoid UGF if u can cuz, a 2213 and an air driven double sponge filter (AI) is most effcient for your setup. If you want a good set up just yyoutube (benibachi factory) and just copy their layout. Btw great choice to keep it in the basement as that's where temps are most stready.


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## razoredge (Dec 31, 2011)

Hi Symplicity, 
Could you expand on "(beware of anubias)". I put in a small anubias in my tank recently. Thanks.


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## Symplicity (Oct 14, 2011)

razoredge said:


> Hi Symplicity,
> Could you expand on "(beware of anubias)". I put in a small anubias in my tank recently. Thanks.


Pretty sure if you trim anubias and crypts they release a dangerous nettle or toxin. Dont quote me but safer than sorry for me.


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## getochkn (Jul 10, 2011)

Symplicity said:


> Pretty sure if you trim anubias and crypts they release a dangerous nettle or toxin. Dont quote me but safer than sorry for me.


That's more a myth than anything, like ANY copper can kill shrimp thing. Many people online have anubias in tanks and have no problem with it, trimming and all.


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## razoredge (Dec 31, 2011)

getochkn said:


> That's more a myth than anything, like ANY copper can kill shrimp thing. Many people online have anubias in tanks and have no problem with it, trimming and all.


That's interesting as I had split an anubias about 2 weeks ago and put in my 
8G tank and most of my tigers are now dead. The other pieces of anubias I put were in two tanks I'm cyling. Tigers were doing very well and the parameters were fine until recently. I thought it might be a parasite as I put in 3 orange ramhorn snails and some floating frogbit. hmmm Coincidence?


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

I don't know what to believe at the moment, but I have anubias in all of the new tanks I set up two months ago. Hope I don't find out. 

The post I read on TPT about this was something introducing like 50 aubias in a tank and almost all shrimps died the day after. So I think even if it is true, it takes a lot to kill the shrimps.


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## getochkn (Jul 10, 2011)

randy said:


> I don't know what to believe at the moment, but I have anubias in all of the new tanks I set up two months ago. Hope I don't find out.
> 
> The post I read on TPT about this was something introducing like 50 aubias in a tank and almost all shrimps died the day after. So I think even if it is true, it takes a lot to kill the shrimps.


That post was also them taking the plants ordered and putting them without cleaning or dipping or anything. A lot of aquarium plants are grown emersed and sprayed with pesticides, etc, in big green houses, so buying big bulk plant orders online, there is that possibility that they will contain something.


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

getochkn said:


> That post was also them taking the plants ordered and putting them without cleaning or dipping or anything. A lot of aquarium plants are grown emersed and sprayed with pesticides, etc, in big green houses, so buying big bulk plant orders online, there is that possibility that they will contain something.


Agreed, and put those plants on top of a hood of a Honda Civic isn't cool either  (it's in the post). That's not the only case though, so I guess I should be careful, I believe a lot of people have it in their shrimp tanks with no ill effect so no need to panic if anyone has it.


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## matti2uude (Jan 10, 2009)

I don't use any plants with a rhizome in my shrimp tanks just to be safe.


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## chinamon (Jun 16, 2012)

CrystalMethShrimp said:


> Hey,
> 
> Your getting some great advice from geto, randy and symplicity. Especially the part about letting your tank waiT for 2 months before adding the shrimps.
> 
> ...


i just got back from AI and picked up a few things ($183 later lol).

two bags of netlea crystal shrimp soil, double sponge filter which i will put on the intake of the eheim, regular sponge filter which i will use with an air pump, ebita spinach tab, shirakura shrimp ball food and ten baby rcs for my existing tank.

also just ordered mosura mineral plus, mosura old sea mud powder and mosura specialty crs food.

damn it, im spending waaaaaaay too much money. i just cant stop.
now i know how a crack addict feels.


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

chinamon said:


> i just got back from AI and picked up a few things ($183 later lol).
> 
> two bags of netlea crystal shrimp soil, double sponge filter which i will put on the intake of the eheim, regular sponge filter which i will use with an air pump, ebita spinach tab, shirakura shrimp ball food and ten baby rcs for my existing tank.
> 
> ...


Okay, you're turning into me now ;-)


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## Symplicity (Oct 14, 2011)

LOL this is a safer money pit


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## Egonsgirl (Feb 28, 2012)

Safer, but still very costly and addicting...... BEWARE!!! LOL There are sooooo many new types of shrimp coming into the market... better close your eyes....... you'll want them all soon.


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## chinamon (Jun 16, 2012)

i dunno... crack looks pretty nifty too. lol

im getting very impatient. saturday cannot come fast enough. i just want to buy everything and start setting it up. waiting for 2-3 months for the tank to stabilize is going to suck. should i put a couple guppies in there to assist in the cycling?


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## Symplicity (Oct 14, 2011)

chinamon said:


> i dunno... crack looks pretty nifty too. lol
> 
> im getting very impatient. saturday cannot come fast enough. i just want to buy everything and start setting it up. waiting for 2-3 months for the tank to stabilize is going to suck. should i put a couple guppies in there to assist in the cycling?


Yes. That works.


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

chinamon said:


> i dunno... crack looks pretty nifty too. lol
> 
> im getting very impatient. saturday cannot come fast enough. i just want to buy everything and start setting it up. waiting for 2-3 months for the tank to stabilize is going to suck. should i put a couple guppies in there to assist in the cycling?


The cycling part can be done in 2 to 3 weeks if you can make the water warmer and use things like ammonia to speed up the nitrifying bacteria growth. Using a few guppies work too but will take much longer.

I got a bottle of Old Country ammonia (for cleaning) from home hardware for less than $3, if you need some you can bring a container and I can give you more than enough to cycle a few tanks free of charge.


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## matti2uude (Jan 10, 2009)

Doesn't the Netlea shrimp soil release ammonia on its own like Ada?


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## getochkn (Jul 10, 2011)

matti2uude said:


> Doesn't the Netlea shrimp soil release ammonia on its own like Ada?


Yup. For a while. lol. I got some that I put into panty hoses in an empty tank with lots of plants and a filter just to let it leech. It's been since the last shrimp meet when I bought it and checked last night and at about 2 ppm ammonia still a month later and that's with the think filled with plants eating up most of the ammonia.


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

matti2uude said:


> Doesn't the Netlea shrimp soil release ammonia on its own like Ada?


It does. But 0.5 ppm isn't enough to speed up the process.


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## getochkn (Jul 10, 2011)

randy said:


> It does. But 0.5 ppm isn't enough to speed up the process.


Depends on the soil. Brown Netlea was 4ppm for 3 months. lol. This Lambo I got last month is slowly going down but it's hard to tell if it's that high and the plants are just eating that much instead. The crystal soil has a lot less I think.


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

getochkn said:


> Depends on the soil. Brown Netlea was 4ppm for 3 months. lol. This Lambo I got last month is slowly going down but it's hard to tell if it's that high and the plants are just eating that much instead. The crystal soil has a lot less I think.


Yeah, I was referring to the CRS version of Netlea. Consider us lucky to have easy access to this stuff, AI might be the only store in NA where you can get it.

I set up a tank with this Lambo stuff, I think I learned from the first time trying to cycle this type of substrate. I add the substrate and tap water in a 19G tank, no filtration, just an air stone pumping air and get some circulation, no light, no plant. I cycled the filter for this tank in my garage for 2 to 3 weeks, it was actually ready in 2 weeks but I kept on adding more ammonia to the point this filter can convert 2ml of that old country ammonia (Fishfur said it's 5% ammonia but I think it might be less) to NO3 in 24 hours. I then add the filter in the tank (at that time, there was still over 0.5ppm ammonia reading in tank water), after 12 hours, I can't get any ammonia reading at all. Note this is PH 5.5, I think this is the fastest I can get. (comparing to previous over 2 months still read ammonia)


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

The bottle of Old Country ought to have a percentage on the label somewhere.. my bottle is awol at the moment so I can't check it.. and I don't recall what it was. If I said it was 5%, I'd assume that was what I read on the label.

I am curious about one thing. Does adding filter squeezings from a nicely matured filter help speed up the cycling with the netlea type of substrate. Since I don't have crystals, I have not yet tried this type of substrate. The Ghosts and Whiskers don't care what the substrate is, and the Snowballs don't seem to mind much about it either. But I've had great success starting new tanks using filter rinsings from my filters, and originally from Scotmando's filters, I can't imagine doing it any other way.. even if the substrate keeps leaching ammonia, wouldn't the bacteria convert it at least to nitrates the way they do for the waste products of the shrimp ?


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## getochkn (Jul 10, 2011)

the thing with the active soils is you're not really cycling the soil, there is ammonia trapped in the soil. Using established filters or whatever isn't going to really make it leech any faster out of the soil. You can start with a established filter, no filter, plants, no plants, the soil is going to leech it's ammonia at a fairly consistent rate for the most part and there isn't a big way to get it to leech much faster.


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

I think my point of this thread is missed. A lot of things help in cycling a tank, up the temperature, ph, dissolved oxygen ... Etc, more or less. However, netlea or such substrates buffer ph so low it's virtually impossible to cycle in tank. So I mature the filter somewhere else and when it's ready, adding it to the tank will instantly get your tank "cycled". I'm sure my substrate still release ammonia, but the ammonia gets converted to no2 then no3 so fast, you won't get any reading if you test the water. I'll wait for another week or two before introducing shrimps but that's just me being super careful. And the fact I still can't find any Taiwan bees.


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

I think I get it now. Interesting... I wish I had paid more attention to chemistry when I was still in school. Ironic, since my Dad was a chemical engineeer.


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## getochkn (Jul 10, 2011)

randy said:


> I think my point of this thread is missed. A lot of things help in cycling a tank, up the temperature, ph, dissolved oxygen ... Etc, more or less. However, netlea or such substrates buffer ph so low it's virtually impossible to cycle in tank. So I mature the filter somewhere else and when it's ready, adding it to the tank will instantly get your tank "cycled". I'm sure my substrate still release ammonia, but the ammonia gets converted to no2 then no3 so fast, you won't get any reading if you test the water. I'll wait for another week or two before introducing shrimps but that's just me being super careful. And the fact I still can't find any Taiwan bees.


I agree it's harder to cycle at a lower pH and a higher pH helps, O2 helps, temp helps but it doesn't make the soils leech out their ammonia any faster. I haven't found a way to make that happen yet and when using ADA Amazonia which is the higher ammonia soil they have or Netlea brown soil, or even the Lambo stuff, it's going to take a while for that leeching to happen regardless of the filtration, temp, O2, pH of the water, the ammonia has to leech out of the soil still.


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

getochkn said:


> I agree it's harder to cycle at a lower pH and a higher pH helps, O2 helps, temp helps but it doesn't make the soils leech out their ammonia any faster. I haven't found a way to make that happen yet and when using ADA Amazonia which is the higher ammonia soil they have or Netlea brown soil, or even the Lambo stuff, it's going to take a while for that leeching to happen regardless of the filtration, temp, O2, pH of the water, the ammonia has to leech out of the soil still.


I'm not sure if a matured filter makes substrate leech nh3 faster, in theory it should but I'm not sure by how much. But what I was trying to say was if you filter can eat nh3/no2 faster than they are produced then it's not a big concern. Especially when ph is sub 6.


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## chinamon (Jun 16, 2012)

well, today is the day!

i worked 15 and 16 hour shifts the last couple days and managed to get today off so im off to BA's a day earlier than planned (which works out perfectly for me since i will be super busy tomorrow with preparing for sunday's big bbq and fireworks with the fam. wholesale fireworks ftw).

wish me luck! (and hope i dont spend my life savings and end up living on the street. oh well, at least i still got my shrimp)

edit: would one of those air curtain things be a good idea to have in the tank planting with moss and fern? or should i just run air through my dual sponge filter and thats enough (along with the eheim 2213)?


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

chinamon said:


> well, today is the day!
> 
> i worked 15 and 16 hour shifts the last couple days and managed to get today off so im off to BA's a day earlier than planned (which works out perfectly for me since i will be super busy tomorrow with preparing for sunday's big bbq and fireworks with the fam. wholesale fireworks ftw).
> 
> ...


Good luck. We all make mistakes in the beginning, or maybe not mistakes but as you gain more experience you'll get different ideas and you'll change. So my only advise at this point is start with something that's not too hard to change later. You should be fine with canister and sponge filter, curtain air bubble thingamajig is fine too. Get a bigger air pump if you want to power that thing + your sponge, but the higher output pumps make more noise so it's a trade-off.


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## chinamon (Jun 16, 2012)

randy said:


> Good luck. We all make mistakes in the beginning, or maybe not mistakes but as you gain more experience you'll get different ideas and you'll change. So my only advise at this point is start with something that's not too hard to change later. You should be fine with canister and sponge filter, curtain air bubble thingamajig is fine too. Get a bigger air pump if you want to power that thing + your sponge, but the higher output pumps make more noise so it's a trade-off.


i have a Rena Air 400 that i used to use for my hydroponics system (chile peppers, people. chile peppers! none of that "other stuff") that i took down to accommodate the new tank. i guess i will be growing my peppers outdoor from now on and restricted to the warmer months. it was nice to be able to grow indoor over the winter.


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## Symplicity (Oct 14, 2011)

Must buys at BA include
-Eheim 2213/2215
-Seachem Prime
-Additional Biomedia


Must buys at AI include
ADA Soil/Netlea CRS 
20G Rimless 
Okho stones


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## chinamon (Jun 16, 2012)

Symplicity said:


> Must buys at BA include
> -Eheim 2213/2215
> -Seachem Prime
> -Additional Biomedia
> ...


2213 and extra eheim substrate pro is already on my list. i already have BA's water conditioner but i will pick up a bottle of seachem prime as well.

i already picked up two bags of netlea crs from AI. is there a procedure that i must follow before putting okho stone in to an aquarium?


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## bigfishy (Jun 19, 2009)

ever want to try akadama? they are good substrate too! 

They used these to keep / breed shrimps in Asia


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

Not trying to affect anyone's business, but trying to help the fellow shrimpers.

I got most of my supplies from http://www.petsandponds.com/en/aquarium-supplies/index.html. Their prices are pretty good comparing to most stores. Shipping is free over $200 and I always receive my order within 48 hours (exclude weekend).

AI is irreplaceable though, they carry some products you just can't find anywhere else in the 30-50 hours driving circle ;-)


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## getochkn (Jul 10, 2011)

randy said:


> Not trying to affect anyone's business, but trying to help the fellow shrimpers.
> 
> I got most of my supplies from http://www.petsandponds.com/en/aquarium-supplies/index.html. Their prices are pretty good comparing to most stores. Shipping is free over $200 and I always receive my order within 48 hours (exclude weekend).
> 
> AI is irreplaceable though, they carry some products you just can't find anywhere else in the 30-50 hours driving circle ;-)


Yup, any basic stuff I will get at BA's, online, where ever, but AI has some things that no one else does, thus my many trips to Markham in the past. lol.


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## chinamon (Jun 16, 2012)

i picked up a marineland 30gal breeder tank. the dimensions are 30x18x12. is that the standard size for this tank? i thought it was supposed to be 36x18x12?


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

20x18x12 is 28G and since you probably won't fill it up to the rim it will be probably around 26G of water. I use this site for calculation http://www.fishlore.com/ConversionCalculator.htm


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## chinamon (Jun 16, 2012)

randy said:


> 20x18x12 is 28G and since you probably won't fill it up to the rim it will be probably around 26G of water. I use this site for calculation http://www.fishlore.com/ConversionCalculator.htm


ahh i see.

i just went hunting for RO water at walmart. i need to bring my own container but i dont have anything big enough to fit 18L and i dont want to drive there a million times to fill this tank. is it possible for me to use dechlorinated tap water during the cycle until i can buy myself an RO system from costco?


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## Symplicity (Oct 14, 2011)

Canadian Tires at hwy7 and weston sells RO wAter refills for $2. If u don't have a large jug go buy regular water in a 15L jug and drink/toss it an fill with RO lol $7 and $2 there after first refil...


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## chinamon (Jun 16, 2012)

Symplicity said:


> Canadian Tires at hwy7 and weston sells RO wAter refills for $2. If u don't have a large jug go buy regular water in a 15L jug and drink/toss it an fill with RO lol $7 and $2 there after first refil...


yeah but i will need 108L to fill this tank. so i would end up spending so much money on multiple containers and its not worth it for me to buy just one container and go to Crappy Tire multiple times since i live pretty far from that location (im at 16th and woodbine).

ive decided that i will purchase an AquaSafe Home II reverse osmosis system and install it in my kitchen. that way i have RO water for my aquarium and for consumption. kill two birds with one stone.  ordering the system as i type this, actually.


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

chinamon said:


> yeah but i will need 108L to fill this tank. so i would end up spending so much money on multiple containers and its not worth it for me to buy just one container and go to Crappy Tire multiple times since i live pretty far from that location (im at 16th and woodbine).
> 
> ive decided that i will purchase an AquaSafe Home II reverse osmosis system and install it in my kitchen. that way i have RO water for my aquarium and for consumption. kill two birds with one stone.  ordering the system as i type this, actually.


First of all, you don't need RO when cycling especially for active substrate. Whatever in water will be sucked out anyways.

I have the HOME II, and I love it. One suggestion is to get an extra T and extra on/off switch. Connect the T just before the storage tank then connect the on/off switch. Use this on/off to get the water for your shrimp tank.

This way, you bypass the final stage that adds some carbon back to your water to improve taste (apparently, acidic water doesn't taste as good as basic water, and the carbon is suppose to absorb any bad smell from the tank). The thing with that final stage is that it adds carbon that you don't need for shrimp, and it increases PH. The water from my RO faucet gets an average PH of 6.8 (TDS up to 10), but the water that bypasses the final stage gets PH of 6.5 and lower and TDS 4 or lower.

Too complicated? I can come to your house to do this mod for a very small fee (like 2 CRS) 

PS: if you order the HOME II on ebay, not only it's free shipping, you also get a TDS meter (great for shrimp tanks) and a pressure gauge which comes with a free T connector, so you only need to get an extra on/off for the mod. Believe me, you SHOULD do the mod.


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## chinamon (Jun 16, 2012)

randy said:


> First of all, you don't need RO when cycling especially for active substrate. Whatever in water will be sucked out anyways.
> 
> I have the HOME II, and I love it. One suggestion is to get an extra T and extra on/off switch. Connect the T just before the storage tank then connect the on/off switch. Use this on/off to get the water for your shrimp tank.
> 
> ...


i ordered just the plain unit from ebay for under $150, not the one with the tds meter because i already have one. i will just have to pick up everything from home depot.

so the system basically has three parts, correct? the main part with all the filters, the faucet and the tank. the T-connector would be installed in the line between the main part and the tank and then add a ball valve.

thanks for offering to do the mod but my family is quite handy. we do all our own home repairs (my dad even built our shed on concrete slab with 16" on centre studs with two circuits running underground in pvc conduit when we first moved in to the area in the late 80s) and im in the constuction trade (electrical) so i'd like to think that im quite handy as well. lol

do i need to do weekly water changes when im cycling?


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

chinamon said:


> i ordered just the plain unit from ebay for under $150, not the one with the tds meter because i already have one. i will just have to pick up everything from home depot.
> 
> so the system basically has three parts, correct? the main part with all the filters, the faucet and the tank. the T-connector would be installed in the line between the main part and the tank and then add a ball valve.
> 
> ...


I'm the last person on earth to be called handy so you are in good hands without me  Yeah, it's simple and I think you got the idea. Install the unit exactly as instructed on their instruction page first, when all is working then do the mod. (the mod can be undone in 10 seconds).

I don't do WC when cycling, but everyone does it different. I just don't see a need for WC when cycling. I do a ~100% WC when it's fully cycled to get rid of the nitrate in water (should have a lot), then wait a few more days before introducing shrimps. On the other hand, I normally introduce plants to the tank after a day or two of cycling but a lot of people don't do that because they don't want the plants to suck up ammonia/nitrite/nitrate and affect the cycling, I don't think plants do too much to a/n/n so I just add it soon after starting cycling.


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## chinamon (Jun 16, 2012)

randy said:


> I'm the last person on earth to be called handy so you are in good hands without me  Yeah, it's simple and I think you got the idea. Install the unit exactly as instructed on their instruction page first, when all is working then do the mod. (the mod can be undone in 10 seconds).
> 
> I don't do WC when cycling, but everyone does it different. I just don't see a need for WC when cycling. I do a ~100% WC when it's fully cycled to get rid of the nitrate in water (should have a lot), then wait a few more days before introducing shrimps. On the other hand, I normally introduce plants to the tank after a day or two of cycling but a lot of people don't do that because they don't want the plants to suck up ammonia/nitrite/nitrate and affect the cycling, I don't think plants do too much to a/n/n so I just add it soon after starting cycling.


right now i have two anubias nana and some dwarf hairgrass planted. i just picked up three bundles of echinodorus tenellus which i will be planting this afternoon.

i guess i will leave the tap water in the tank for a couple months and then do a 90-100% water change with RO. sorry for being a copycat.


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## chinamon (Jun 16, 2012)

here it is so far....


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

What kind of stone is that? Some stones will increase GH & TDS but I can't ID them.

Also, get something to cover the intake, your shrimps will appreciate that. There are SS intake that works great and looks great. Get one of those so your shrimplets/shrimps don't get sucked in.

I would get some moss. Are you using marineland double bright LED light? It looks good.


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## chinamon (Jun 16, 2012)

randy said:


> What kind of stone is that? Some stones will increase GH & TDS but I can't ID them.
> 
> Also, get something to cover the intake, your shrimps will appreciate that. There are SS intake that works great and looks great. Get one of those so your shrimplets/shrimps don't get sucked in.
> 
> I would get some moss. Are you using marineland double bright LED light? It looks good.


its dragon stone from BA's.

i have sponge cover that i got from ebay coming in the mail. i will put one on as soon as it arrives.

i thought about moss but it comes on metal sheets so it would look ugly. thats why i didnt get any.

yes, thats the double bright. it does look good but i wish it was twice as bright. lol


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## Fishyfishyfishy (Mar 3, 2008)

chinamon said:


> yeah but i will need 108L to fill this tank. so i would end up spending so much money on multiple containers and its not worth it for me to buy just one container and go to Crappy Tire multiple times since i live pretty far from that location (im at 16th and woodbine).
> 
> ive decided that i will purchase an AquaSafe Home II reverse osmosis system and install it in my kitchen. that way i have RO water for my aquarium and for consumption. kill two birds with one stone.  ordering the system as i type this, actually.


I also got the Combo 3 weeks ago, excellent water. Just a heads up, you should get a T valve and a switch valve with your filter. The reason is you want to access the water from the water tank, not the water that passes through the polishing carbon (for drinking purposes).

*Edit: Also realized someone already said what I said. The Home II system's last step does not raise pH (unless you got the DI resins), but it does add TDS back into the water. In any case, no matter which filter you got, you do need to get these modification parts.


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## chinamon (Jun 16, 2012)

i just finished installing my RO system. doing the tank flush at the moment. ordered the T and valve from aquasafe as well (along with a twin set of filters to keep at home). cant wait to try out the water.


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## Fishyfishyfishy (Mar 3, 2008)

chinamon said:


> i just finished installing my RO system. doing the tank flush at the moment. ordered the T and valve from aquasafe as well (along with a twin set of filters to keep at home). cant wait to try out the water.


In my opinion, the tank flush was a waste of water. When you flush it, save that water for aquarium. I think the flushing was important for our drinking water.


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## chinamon (Jun 16, 2012)

Fishyfishyfishy said:


> In my opinion, the tank flush was a waste of water. When you flush it, save that water for aquarium. I think the flushing was important for our drinking water.


my tank is still cycling so i wont be needing RO for that yet.
i do plan on drinking some water tonight so thats why im doing the tank flush.


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## chinamon (Jun 16, 2012)

i just tested my tap and RO water and i think something is wrong...

RO:
8.3pH (tested with pen)
19ppm
8.0-8.2pH (tested with API master test kit. it turned a blue colour that is not on the chart. it is more blue than 7.8 but less purple than 8.4. i tried both the regular pH test and high pH test and the color is exactly the same)

TAP:
7.8pH (tested with pen)
174ppm
7.6pH (tested with API master test kit)

why is my RO pH so high?


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

chinamon said:


> i just tested my tap and RO water and i think something is wrong...
> 
> RO:
> 8.3pH (tested with pen)
> ...


That's the HOME II? Did you bypass the final stage? Even passing the final stage my PH is like 6.8.

TDS will drop after a while or if you flush a few tanks of water. I think it's still new, give it a few days. There was a step in installation that you're supposed to run water though the filter for 20 minutes (before installing RO membrane), did you do that?


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## chinamon (Jun 16, 2012)

randy said:


> That's the HOME II? Did you bypass the final stage? Even passing the final stage my PH is like 6.8.
> 
> TDS will drop after a while or if you flush a few tanks of water. I think it's still new, give it a few days. There was a step in installation that you're supposed to run water though the filter for 20 minutes (before installing RO membrane), did you do that?


yes, i did do that 20 minute flush (i actually let it run for nearly 30 minutes). i followed every step in the instructions exactly as it was written. maybe i will give it a week or two and test the water again. it might just be due to a new installation.

btw, the tests were done with water that passed all five stages of filtration. i have not done the mod yet as i am waiting for parts from aquasafe.


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

Now I remember, mine was like for a day or two. So you should be good.

I used the water passing all 5 stages for 2 months or so the did the mod. Could be my imagination but I don't like the idea of the final stage for shrimp (filtering out the bad smells from the storage tank and adding carbon in the water).

Like I said, bypassing the final stage I get PH 6.5, I like that.


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## Fishyfishyfishy (Mar 3, 2008)

Very weird. Unless you are using "DI resin" for the last stage, the PH should not be that high (maybe he sent you a DI resin for the HOME II system?).

Or maybe you tested it wrong? 

Just relax and drink some water for now =)


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## chinamon (Jun 16, 2012)

Fishyfishyfishy said:


> Very weird. Unless you are using "DI resin" for the last stage, the PH should not be that high (maybe he sent you a DI resin for the HOME II system?).
> 
> Or maybe you tested it wrong?
> 
> Just relax and drink some water for now =)


its definitely not the DI resin canister with DI resin beads. the thing i installed was blue just like their RO membrane.

i highly doubt that i tested it wrong. i mean, it does not take a rocket scientist to put 5mL of water in to a test tube, add three drops of pH test solution and shake it up then compare it to the chart.

i will just wait a little bit and retest. im definitely enjoying the taste of the water.


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

Chinamon, like I said, I had exactly the same issue for a day or two. PH will drop after a few days.


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## chinamon (Jun 16, 2012)

randy said:


> Chinamon, like I said, I had exactly the same issue for a day or two. PH will drop after a few days.


Thanks. I'm not gonna sweat it. I forgot to reply to you before. Too much stuff on my plate this weekend.


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## chinamon (Jun 16, 2012)

so i just retested my water. i tested my tap water, then RO water before and after the polishing stage and here are the results.

markham tap: 7.6pH / 171ppm
RO after polish: 6.8pH / 20ppm
RO before polish: 6.4pH / 6ppm

my made-in-china cheapo pH meter is showing 8.0pH on my RO post-polish even after i calibrated. lol. maybe i should just buy myself a Hanna meter.... or i could just use the Tri-Meter that i used to use for my hydroponics. hmmmm...


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## splur (May 11, 2011)

TBH, I'm making the slow transition from DI/RO water to tap water... and my shrimp seem to be doing better because of it. It might be a huge mistake down the road to go completely tap water, but I'm experimenting.


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## Boxster123 (Jul 14, 2012)

Hi Chinamon,

I live in NW of Woodbine & 16th, Markham. I use API test kit to test the water. 

My tap water test is as follows:
PH 7.8
Ammonia 0.5
KH 5
GH 7
TDS 157
Temp 64


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## chinamon (Jun 16, 2012)

Boxster123 said:


> Hi Chinamon,
> 
> I live in NW of Woodbine & 16th, Markham. I use API test kit to test the water.
> 
> ...


you're super close to me. im at the SW corner of woodbine & 16th. i can see T&T from my backyard.

you still have some ammonia so i think that means your tank is not cycled yet.


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## Boxster123 (Jul 14, 2012)

chinamon said:


> you're super close to me. im at the SW corner of woodbine & 16th. i can see T&T from my backyard.
> 
> you still have some ammonia so i think that means your tank is not cycled yet.


No, not yet, tank only set up for 2 weeks. It's good red cherry is hardy and I just have to monitor the water parameter and make minor water change and they should be ok.


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## chinamon (Jun 16, 2012)

Boxster123 said:


> No, not yet, tank only set up for 2 weeks. It's good red cherry is hardy and I just have to monitor the water parameter and make minor water change and they should be ok.


you're like me. i put in a bunch of red cherry shrimp in my tank before it was fully cycled and i lost a few of them. hopefully you dont lose any.


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## Boxster123 (Jul 14, 2012)

chinamon said:


> you're like me. i put in a bunch of red cherry shrimp in my tank before it was fully cycled and i lost a few of them. hopefully you dont lose any.


No, you are smarter than me. I bought 2 CRS, 2 CBS, 2 yellow shrimp and 2 fire red shrimp and dump it all into a new fish tank. 7 out of 8 died within a week and now I only have 1 CBS left and I move it to the new shrimp tank.

Lesson learned. Patience is virtue. Although I am tempted daily to add a dozen of CRS + CBS i the tank.


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## chinamon (Jun 16, 2012)

Boxster123 said:


> No, you are smarter than me. I bought 2 CRS, 2 CBS, 2 yellow shrimp and 2 fire red shrimp and dump it all into a new fish tank. 7 out of 8 died within a week and now I only have 1 CBS left and I move it to the new shrimp tank.
> 
> Lesson learned. Patience is virtue. Although I am tempted daily to add a dozen of CRS + CBS i the tank.


im even tempted right now to go to AI and buy more shrimp. lol

i spend waaaaaay too much money.


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