# Looking for HEET or denatured alchohal



## AquaNeko (Jul 26, 2009)

Anyone know or have seen the product HEET in stores? I'm looking for the YELLOW bottle (not the red one at Can.T) or denatured alchohal. I'll go with grain alchohal as well but my preferance is with HEET first.

Also to any alcohhalic drinkers out there how much is EVERCLEAR or anything higher then 190% proof?


Thanks.


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## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

Not knowing the intended use, you might find denatured alcohol in the paint/stain section of HD/RONA/LOWES...but it's been _quite _a few years that I used it back when I was tinkering w/the idea of going into wood furniture refinishing field. I've redone a whole bedroom and dining set...French polishing...fun stuff it was .

HTH


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

I am confused with what you intend to do with this.

Denatured alcohol is just ethanol with various additives in it that make it unpalatable/undrinkable.

Grain alcohol is still ethanol.

Which do you want?

As for Everclear alcohol, I believe you can only get that in the US, and not in Canada.

Finally, perhaps you should cut back on the alcohol, or use spell check


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## AquaNeko (Jul 26, 2009)

Well I'm using it as a burning fuel. I don't drink. I was going to get a tianga (total sp I think) pocket stove for some light hiking trips but decided to try making my own.

I made two stoves so far and am working on refining the design and function. I ran out of rossengal (sp?) zippo lighter fuel and 70% isopropanol (sp?) while priming and testing the stoves. 

First design leaked so the jets worked but lost about 50% fuel burning out the side. Used like 6 holes in the 1st one. Second stove had a tighter fit to give some pressure for the jets to give off more heat but I went with more holes so the heat burned out fast. Used like 10-12 holes in the 2nd one.

I've read that HEET (yellow bottle) is the best to use as it's methenol (sp) and burns well in all the designs I've seen. I'm about to start the 3rd model but ran out of fuel thus asking here where to find those items. I'm going to JB weld the stove tight to allow for nice low pressure build up and work on the jet hole positioning for better heat to fuel ratio. 

I did call the LCBO and seems like they only sell some Rum in I think 92% alcohol (Thanks Dark  on the spelling ). I can't find the yellow HEET on Can.T's website or S-L-X at Home Depot. I'll try the other suggestions here when I have some time.

I'm contemplating trying my hand at brewing my own beer or wine something then removing the alcohol. If I go the wine route would the non-alcohol wine be like grape juice? As I always say 'I don't smoke, drink, do drugs, or gamble (ok, probably $5 once in a blue moon).' I don't drink alcohol so it's not something I know much on and the only time I use consumable alcohol is only when I cook because I don't like the taste of wine/beer uncooked and honestly get dizzy quick with a little alcohol.


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## AquaNeko (Jul 26, 2009)

Darkblade48 said:


> I am confused with what you intend to do with this.
> 
> Denatured alcohol is just ethanol with various additives in it that make it unpalatable/undrinkable.
> 
> ...


Yah apparently no LCBO has Everclear or suprisingly has heard of it (out of the 6 places I've called). They did mention something about a higher proof but it would be in the medical grade and you need a prescription to buy it. Screw that. That Rum J&B I think was the name was something like $20 for less them a 1L for ~92% alcohol. 500mL of the right stuff should last you a long time pending hwat you're cooking along the trail. The reason for the higher proof is because IIRC from my web reading it burns hotter and flashes faster which is good as alcohol stoves need to be heat primed to vaporize the fuel inside so they can jet out the holes. Also because the higher the proof hopefully I can carry a little less or split the fuel into two containers so if one leaks I'm not at a loss of of all the fuel gone and also I was thinking of either attaching a small tiny bottle to the gun stock or drilling the gun stock to tuck a little in there along with some small survival kit as well.


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## bae (May 11, 2007)

You can buy methyl alcohol at building supply stores or hardware stores. It's also called methanol or wood alcohol. It's used, among other things, for stripping shellac. IIRC, it's also in windshield washer antifreeze and lock de-icer. This is the stuff that causes permanent blindness in people who are confused or foolish enough to drink it. Sterno fuel is methanol. I don't remember what they use to make it solid.

You can buy 70% and 90% (maybe 99%) isopropanol (isopropyl alcohol) as rubbing alcohol wherever drugstore type stuff is sold, including supermarkets. At one time you could get rubbing alcohol which was denatured ethanol, but I haven't seen it lately. It has pyridine in it to make it taste foul even to the most desperate alcoholic.

The name slips my mind, but that hand sanitizer gel you see in dispensers nowadays is ethanol (ethyl alcohol) with a gelling agent added.

Any kind of non-drinkable alcohol is going to be lots less expensive than anything from the LCBO, since the price there include substantial taxes.


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## AquaNeko (Jul 26, 2009)

Bae,

http://zenstoves.net/Stoves.htm

Yah I've read about the bad stuff if you ingest that. Sterno is gelled methenol. Has some advantages but last time I tested it, it took about 12-14min to boil 2 cups of water in a stainless steel whistle kettle and that was with the Colemen folding emergency/backpacker stove thing as a windshield.

IIRC from all I've read and seen it takes about 3 soda bottle capfuls to boil 1 pint of water including priming IIRC. Not bad I think.

The lighter fluid and 70% isoproponal (sp) I used (tested under range hood on max and window open ) really did soot up the test pot. Was thinking of trying99% isoproponal (sp?) that Shoppers Drugmart said they had but IIRC on that site somewhere it said that it will soot it up more. My understanding is HEET burns clean. I've heard of people using petrol in these but I don't. It's a safety issue there. The alcohol stove design I'm using uses vapourization and very low pressure. I've read about petrol blowing up but yet have heard anything about the alcohol ones blowing up. I do know you'll lose about 50% effeciency if you have a leak as I've experienced with my first prototype.


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

If I were you, I would just buy a nice working stove that won't be a fire hazard


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## PhonicsBus (Feb 7, 2010)

In Canada, Everclear is sold in the province of Alberta, but not in Manitoba, Saskatchewan, and most other provinces. In British Columbia, one can purchase it with a permit for medical, research or industrial use only.


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## AquaNeko (Jul 26, 2009)

PhonicsBus said:


> In Canada, Everclear is sold in the province of Alberta, but not in Manitoba, Saskatchewan, and most other provinces. In British Columbia, one can purchase it with a permit for medical, research or industrial use only.


Thanks mate. How much are they roughly and what sizes do they offer? I like the idea of Everclear as it is dual purpose. You can consume it if needed or use as fuel.



> Chris S If I were you, I would just buy a nice working stove that won't be a fire hazard


Tightly sealed small can stoves are safe to use. JB Weld IIRC is fire rated as with some silicones have a high heat rating on them. The Tigaia something stove there at MEC is like two pop can bottoms cut out (albiet double thickness to my knowledge), halves sealed (solder or some paste/adhesive like JB Weld), then sanded down smooth, and IIRC from what I've read some light heat treated coating over it to make it look like one solid unit.

I've got JB Weld here. These little stoves are not big and hold a lot of fuel. Most of the time you're using a 1-2 table spoons for quick heat ups.


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

In the long run, it is much cheaper to use methanol rather than ethanol and/or isopropanol (the most expensive of the three).

You can get 99% isopropanol, you just need to ask the pharmacist for it, and they may ask you what is for.

Technical grade methanol can be purchased at the hardware store, as already has been mentioned.


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## AquaNeko (Jul 26, 2009)

bae said:


> The name slips my mind, but that hand sanitizer gel you see in dispensers nowadays is ethanol (ethyl alcohol) with a gelling agent added.
> 
> Any kind of non-drinkable alcohol is going to be lots less expensive than anything from the LCBO, since the price there include substantial taxes.


Hell no am I using hand sanitizer gel again. On the hands it's ok. I always carry one on me. I tried the hand sanitizer and while it's good as a primer ON THE OUTSIDE don't use it inside the stove. It'll just gel up inside. I fixed my second prototype and now it's not leaking fuel onthe side. While it did fire the hand gel the rest inside gummed up bad inside the stove. Good thing trimmed and modified my unit so now it has a nice tight compression fit and I can see all the jets fire out but I'm definately going liquid fire if I'm getting fuel. Hand gel is good in a pinch outside the stove as a primer to vapourize the liquid inside but not inside. I'm contemplating using the cotton balls inside again to to hold the lquid. It worked with and without the cotton inside. Only advantage to having it inside is if to somehoe drop the stove while it's running then the liquid can't or less of it will come out.

Dark,

I tried 70% already. It sooted up the test pan. I'm sure 99% will soot but I need some ayways and Shoppers has it on sal ethis week so grab some for those that need it.


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

AquaNeko said:


> I tried 70% already. It sooted up the test pan. I'm sure 99% will soot but I need some ayways and Shoppers has it on sal ethis week so grab some for those that need it.


Why are you sure that the 99% will soot up as well? The soot from the 70% is likely due to impurities that could not be burned.


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## AquaNeko (Jul 26, 2009)

Darkblade48 said:


> Why are you sure that the 99% will soot up as well? The soot from the 70% is likely due to impurities that could not be burned.


From http://zenstoves.net/Stoves.htm



> Isopropyl Alcohol (Isopropanol, 2-Propanol, rubbing alcohol) Not recommended -
> 
> Iso-HEET Isopropyl Alcohol
> 
> Found in drug, food and general stores (HEET in red container). Rubbing alcohol is generally only 70% alcohol and won't work in many stoves. Alcohol with 91% or greater alcohol content will work, but will leave a sooty residue on your pot and brown water in your stove.


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

Another issue is the use of "rubbing alcohol". Does this refer to isopropanol or ethanol? Both can be called rubbing alcohol.

If you are worried about the soot, why not just buy the 99% and then dilute down to whatever percentage you require? It is cheaper than buying (say) the 90% from the store.


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Tried any of the scientific supply houses? BioShop Canada is dirt cheap - 4L of reagent grade (99.9%) Methanol is $30.


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## AquaNeko (Jul 26, 2009)

BTW anyone know the shelf life of methanol? How long is it stable for before it breaks down?

Ameek,

Nope but will be looking into it now. Was hoping for local main stores to have the stuff I needed then going to a specialty shop. Do they sell it in smaller sizes? 4L may last me a whole year when I only need like 500-1000mL. I'm also curious about the effects of methanol on silicone & rubber along with the extended storage as I'm thinking of putting a small backup amount inside the gun stock with my small survival kit for long term storage likely unless I swap out the liquid on rotation but it's just there for backup. Thinking of using those small flower tube container things. I think it's glass? Or plastic. 


Well found out that Can.T sells the yellow bottle HEET so for those looking for it you've got a local source. Something like $8ish for a 4 pack IIRC on that price that the CSR said.


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

AquaNeko said:


> BTW anyone know the shelf life of methanol? How long is it stable for before it breaks down?


It will essentially last forever, if stored properly.



AquaNeko said:


> Ameek,
> 
> Nope but will be looking into it now. Was hoping for local main stores to have the stuff I needed then going to a specialty shop. Do they sell it in smaller sizes? 4L may last me a whole year when I only need like 500-1000mL.


They sell them by the litre at hardware stores.
You may want to check, but most scientific stores will not sell to individuals.



AquaNeko said:


> I'm also curious about the effects of methanol on silicone & rubber along with the extended storage as I'm thinking of putting a small backup amount inside the gun stock with my small survival kit for long term storage likely unless I swap out the liquid on rotation but it's just there for backup. Thinking of using those small flower tube container things. I think it's glass? Or plastic.


Methanol will be fine in HDPE plastic. I believe that is what they are sold in when bought from the hardware store. Methanol will cause silicone and rubber to either melt and/or harden with time.


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## AquaNeko (Jul 26, 2009)

Woot got me a 4 pack of HEET. $8.97 for 4 or $3.29/ea at Can.T.

Stuff works great. Does not soot up pots as well. My data I've collected is:

Using a stainless steel with copper base pot with lid filled with 2 cups/500mL tap water.
5min - warm/hot
10min - starting to have small bubbles
11m36s - rolling boil

Did not measure fuel consumption there. On one enduro test run it was about 17mins continous burn time with no flare ups. On the time I tested it with the 2 cups of water I filled the stove up, primed it, and estimate approx. 20mins burn time total as I stopped the watch at rolling boil. The stove has 18 jets on it not including center hole. Not bad at all. Kept the rolling boil on till the jets ran out of fuel.

Oh yes, this model has no anti-slosh material in it. The other prototype has cotton balls in it ad gives a little 'poof poof' near the end. Works well on the non JB Weld sealed unit only using compression fit so for any camper/hikers out there it's worth trying it out.

The HEET bottle howeer is a PITA. It says to 'pry open' on the lid as it's fricking hard on. Had to multitool the top off. Dark is right it's in the HDPE container. Better to find a small liquid container.


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## AquaNeko (Jul 26, 2009)

Darkblade48 said:


> It will essentially last forever, if stored properly.
> 
> They sell them by the litre at hardware stores.
> You may want to check, but most scientific stores will not sell to individuals.
> ...


Ok, been a while since I've been messing with alchohal stoves again. It's frigging -22C outside right now and my understanding is canister isobutane stoves (Got a Brunton Talon) will need to be pre-warmed/warm to work and also won't work well or long in such cold temps. I have read that alchohal stoves work well in such cold temps as with the other multi-fuel gucci priced stoves at MEC.

What I want to know is can anyone here acquire the scientific grade locally? How much is it by the litre? If you have some and don't mind selling in smaller quantities I'd like to try out 250mL/1cup to test the burn time in my stove.

Thanks in advance.


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## AquaNeko (Jul 26, 2009)

Darkblade48 said:


> It will essentially last forever, if stored properly.
> 
> They sell them by the litre at hardware stores.
> You may want to check, but most scientific stores will not sell to individuals.
> ...


Ok, been a while since I've been messing with alcohol stoves again. It's frigging -22C outside right now and my understanding is canister isobutane stoves (Got a Brunton Talon) will need to be pre-warmed/warm to work and also won't work well or long in such cold temps. I have read that alchohal stoves work well in such cold temps as with the other multi-fuel Gucci priced stoves at MEC.

What I want to know is can anyone here acquire the scientific grade locally? How much is it by the liter? If you have some and don't mind selling in smaller quantities I'd like to try out 250mL/1cup to test the burn time in my stove.

Thanks in advance.


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