# SHIPPING FROM USA - Has anyone did this ???



## Tdeon (Mar 4, 2013)

looking for someone to ship over sting rays anyone have License to do this ??? Or have information on how and what experience they had in shipping over to Ontario. How do i get a License ??


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## Ryan.Wilton (Dec 12, 2012)

Most places from the US will NOT ship to Canada unless you are a registered retail store and will be ordering from their company on occasions.


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## greg (Apr 29, 2012)

Are you sure you need a license to bring stingrays into Canada?

I've ordered tropical fish from U.S. and had them shipped overnight to Lewiston N.Y., where I pick them up and bring them home to my tank. Less than 24 hours from Florida breeder to my tank. No license required. No issues going through customs.


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## bob123 (Dec 31, 2009)

Check with Spencer Jack he is in Winnipeg and has fish that he ships all across Canada, airport to airport. Good luck.


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## loonie (Mar 29, 2008)

Greg..........are you sure today you will not have problems at the border since there are new rules in place in Jan., I think, as to import of fish into Canada.
Many common fish you need permit, health papers etc...


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## greg (Apr 29, 2012)

loonie said:


> Greg..........are you sure today you will not have problems at the border since there are new rules in place in Jan., I think, as to import of fish into Canada.
> Many common fish you need permit, health papers etc...


I saw someone make a comment similar to yours a few weeks ago and so I did a bit of research and this is a 2013 government notice I found. There does not appear to be any change for ornamental fish. If you have some information that contradicts this I would be very interested in looking at it. Thanks.

http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/science/enviro/aah-saa/ornamental-aquarium-eng.htm


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## Ryan.Wilton (Dec 12, 2012)

Yes, but Ornamental fish covers a wide range. Think about snake heads, they're Ornamental and banned.


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## greg (Apr 29, 2012)

Ryan.Wilton said:


> Yes, but Ornamental fish covers a wide range. Think about snake heads, they're Ornamental and banned.


I was responding to a question about changes made in 2013 and as far as I know there are no additional restrictions in 2013.

The list of restricted (edit) species comes from Ontario Regulation 664/98 Section 32.2 subsection (1)

The following fish that do not exist in Ontario waters are prescribed, for the purpose of subsection 51 (1) of the Act, as fish that can be bought or sold only under the authority of a licence:
1.Grass carp Ctenopharyngodon idella
2.Bighead carp Hypophthalmichthys nobilis
3.Silver carp Hypophthalmichthys molitrix
4.Black carp Mylopharyngodon piceus
5.Snakehead Family Channidae
6.Round goby Neogobius melanostomus
7.Tubenose goby Preterorhinus marmoratus

I am not aware of any additional restrictions on ornamental fish imported for personal use.

Greg


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## BillD (Jun 5, 2006)

There are more restrictions, as of February. The body responsible for this is the Canada Food Inspection Agency. So, this is federal, not just provincial.There are a number of commonly kept tropical species on the list of fish that restricted or governed by certain rules. Guppies are on the list, as are some Gouramis. http://www.inspection.gc.ca/animals...s/pet-imports/eng/1326600389775/1326600500578, links to the area of the site that covers this.


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## greg (Apr 29, 2012)

BillD - Those regulations appear to apply only to the susceptible species list, which as you indicated include guppies and a few types of gourami. My interpretation of the regulation is that those ornamental fish on the list are still allowed to be brought into the country by the hobbyist for personal use. An 'Importers Declaration of Ownership for Pet Aquatic Animals Form' must be completed at point of entry - ie. the border. 

Does this match your interpretation of the wording?

I cannot open the form on my mac or iPhone, despite having the newest version of Adobe Reader, so I'm not sure how onerous the form is to fill out.

Greg

Edit: Managed to open form - looks straight forward. Have to declare the fish has not been in a show, will be kept in your household for at least one year, will not import any more fish on the list for 90 days and will keep a record of the importation and proof of ownership.

Fish on the list on this form are; silver barb, goldfish, dwarf gourami, zebra danio, tank goby, giant gourami, marble goby, guppy, pool barb, red discus, spotted archerfish, snakeskin gourami and three spot gourami.


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

Greg,when you said prescribed, I do believe you meant 'p-r-o-scribed', as in prohibited, didn't you ?

I think if you are determined to get stingrays, your best bet is to find out the correct species name and contact Border services to find out precisely what is required of you, before you order or go to pick them up. You run a risk of having them seized or being made to leave them behind if you don't have whatever paperwork is required, and properly filled out. 

If it happens that there is any question that some sort of veterinary inspection might be required, be sure to cross the border during a time when a vet is going to be available. They are not there 24/7 and if one can't be found, you'll have to wait or perhaps pay huge fees to get one, and you'll be charged overtime hourly rates for it. 

I know people who have run into problems like this importing such things as plants, horses, dogs and cats. Fish I have never tried to import, so I don't know first hand, but I do know the Border people have no sense of humour and where one agent may be helpful, another may be having a bad day and decide to make your life hell as a result. It happens more often than I'd like to think.

So find out exactly what you need and make sure you get it all correct.


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## greg (Apr 29, 2012)

Fishfur said:


> Greg,when you said prescribed, I do believe you meant 'p-r-o-scribed', as in prohibited, .
> 
> 
> > It was copy and pasted from govt site. Pretty sure it's prescribed because they are not prohibited.


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## Jackson (Jan 30, 2009)

If you want stingrays join Arowanacanada and buy from one of the breeders or importers there.


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## matti2uude (Jan 10, 2009)

What kind of ray are you trying to get?


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## menagerie (Mar 18, 2006)

greg said:


> BillD - Those regulations appear to apply only to the susceptible species list, which as you indicated include guppies and a few types of gourami. My interpretation of the regulation is that those ornamental fish on the list are still allowed to be brought into the country by the hobbyist for personal use. An 'Importers Declaration of Ownership for Pet Aquatic Animals Form' must be completed at point of entry - ie. the border.
> 
> Does this match your interpretation of the wording?
> 
> ...


There have been a number of refusals at the border for hobbyists with fish from the list of susceptible species since February 4th (implementation of the new regs). The CBSA refused entry of the fish because the quantities imported were obviously not for their personal aquarium. Take note for those private individuals importing to resell that there has been an internal memorandum to the CBSA officers to question quantities over 6 specimens for fish and crustaceans and to deem the importation as commercial which will require an importer's number. They are also asking for complete addresses, phone numbers and names of the person, organization or business where the fish, crustacean has been purchased or traded and for the complete scientific name. The list of species is not complete but they do have 2300 on it and if the species doesn't match one on the list you will be delayed. Implementation is not consistent across the country and seems to be based on the diligence of the CBSA officer. For just 3 or 4 fish they are waving many through. The main thing is not to lie because if you get caught you will be scrutinized in the future even if you are just crossing the border to sight see and aren't even shopping for fish


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

Sorry, Greg. I didn't know you had copied/pasted the info. Obviously it's not you I should question about the meaning. Have you got the link to the page you copied it from ? I'd like to read the whole thing for myself.


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## rickcasa (Dec 7, 2011)

Which parcel receiving company do you recommend? I'm heading to Florida in May and while I'm there want to hand pick some corals from http://www.worldwidecorals.com/ and have them ship it. We're departing from Buffalo, so somewhere close to there is best.
Their website says I will need to sign for the package. How do these receiving companies work around that?

thx



greg said:


> Are you sure you need a license to bring stingrays into Canada?
> 
> I've ordered tropical fish from U.S. and had them shipped overnight to Lewiston N.Y., where I pick them up and bring them home to my tank. Less than 24 hours from Florida breeder to my tank. No license required. No issues going through customs.


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## greg (Apr 29, 2012)

rickcasa said:


> Which parcel receiving company do you recommend? I'm heading to Florida in May and while I'm there want to hand pick some corals from http://www.worldwidecorals.com/ and have them ship it. We're departing from Buffalo, so somewhere close to there is best.
> Their website says I will need to sign for the package. How do these receiving companies work around that?
> 
> thx


The company receiving the goods on your behalf signs for it. There are many such services along the Niagara border. I use the UPS Store in Lewiston. They sign for it and have an automated system that emails me immediately telling me the parcel has arrived. They charge $5 for a small parcel and $10 for large for the service. They hold it for 7 days for free and then charge $1 a day after that.

Just google "US shipping address Buffalo" or "ship to border Buffalo" and you will get hits for similar services in Buffalo.

Greg


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## Ryan.Wilton (Dec 12, 2012)

greg... While I agree with your points. The fact is we're talking about having a company import them, not crossing the boarder and picking them up. As far as I know there are no law against that.

But every company that I have contacted in regards to livestock shipping across the boarder have told me no due to, too many regulations and laws, beyond which most companies need to pay extra for the services as well they will not guarantee any live shipments, and most good companies wish this to be an ability, as dead fish orders look bad on a company.


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## greg (Apr 29, 2012)

Ryan.Wilton said:


> greg... While I agree with your points. The fact is we're talking about having a company import them, not crossing the boarder and picking them up. As far as I know there are no law against that.
> 
> But every company that I have contacted in regards to livestock shipping across the boarder have told me no due to, too many regulations and laws, beyond which most companies need to pay extra for the services as well they will not guarantee any live shipments, and most good companies wish this to be an ability, as dead fish orders look bad on a company.


Agreed the OP's initial question is about finding an agent to import on their behalf. This seems unrealistic as you have pointed out. Why would a LFS such as Big Al's for instance, import on someone's behalf when importing and selling retail is their business? And regular importers as you point out are not going to touch livestock shipping. That's why I suggested the alternative of shipping to the border, then bringing it across yourself. If you have access to a car, its pretty easy.

Alternatively, there are a number of threads on GTA Aquaria that import various items and resell to other members, sort of on an agent basis. Haven't seen any of them offering stingrays however.


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## greg (Apr 29, 2012)

The OP was also talking about getting a license. So it wasn't clear whether they are planning to go into the business of importing and selling stingrays...We didn't really have a lot of details to work with and they haven't come back to the thread. The thread then took on a life of its own since its an interesting and relevant topic for many of us.


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## Ryan.Wilton (Dec 12, 2012)

Again though greg, your idea depends entirely upon the quantity.

If we analyze the situation, then the (possibly 6-8hours) travel time, plus gas consumption, plus cost of the actual product may not be worth while in the end. I mean I certainly wouldn't spend 8hours and probably $100 on gas plus w/e the fish cost was for like 10 fish in a bag...


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## greg (Apr 29, 2012)

I've done this trip 11 times in the past year for aquarium supplies as well as electronics etc. My average return trip from Mississauga is under 3 hours. Distance <200km, gas about $25. Typically on purchases of less than $150 they don't even charge the HST when you cross, which covers most of my gas.

Agreed its not worthwhile for many items the LFS carries. I like buying from Angelfins and Menagerie and source stuff from them whenever possible. Angelfins in particular has very reasonable markups on the items they carry and will even special order other items for customers. Nevertheless, its a great option for items not available here or some expensive items which have grossly inflated prices in Canada.

I personally discovered this process when I needed a sheet of corian for a reno. It was discontinued and only available from a W. Virginia warehouse. Shipping for the $200 sheet to my home was going to cost $800 which I couldn't justify. I did some research and discovered this process already used by so many Canadians, and had it shipped to Lewiston for $80 by UPS.


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## bob123 (Dec 31, 2009)

I have tried to bring fish across the border and was stopped and was told only 4 fish of the same spiecies was permitted. I had six Angels and I was let go after they checked out the person I bought them from. This was at the beginning of March 2013 so if you don't have the proper paperwork you must forfiet the fish or face a fine if you fail to claim. For me it's not worth the hassle as there are breeders in Canada that can supply what you need.


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## Tdeon (Mar 4, 2013)

*Sorry*

Sorry everyone I didn't get emails saying people replied. But Thanks for your help and information what I want is Leopiodi Sting Rays male and Female and want to ship them or get them brought up. But was wondering can I pick up and bring back over the boarder ... Or will they seize them


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