# Cory Cat Deaths - is this a Substrate/ Water/ Aquarist issue?



## KatG

Hello,

Either my LFS is reprehensible (and i don't think they are), or there's a major tank problem.

...Or a major "me" problem.

I've clearly messed up, made rookie mistakes, possibly relied a little too much on my LFS for advice&#8230; but how can I do right by these last little dudes? Thinking it's time to throw in the towel and give them away.

*Background*
Started with a Hoplo and Bronze Cory Cats (rescues from a public school and extremely bad conditions. No idea how old they were when I got them)
Made numerous rookie mistakes, they have survived for 3+ yrs with me. Think they are/ were extra hearty and gave me a false sense of security in that I was on the right track.
Hoplo died 2 months ago. Cory has been in bad shape for about 1 month. Keep finding him on his side/ upside down. Go to net him out and he'll swim away. He'll seem fine for a few days again, then I'll find him seemingly dead again.
Regardless, the two of them survived about 10 other corys over the last 3+ years.

*Recently*
New group added about 1.5 months ago:
2 (male and female) Kribensis, 1 Dwarf Gourami, 2 hoplos and 4 Corys (to add to 1 Hoplo & 1 Cory)
Assured by store: that this wasn't too much at once and 
​Kribensises & Gourami would be peaceful with the cats (I love catfish and don't care that they're plain/ ugly. I just want them to be happy)

*Problems started (or maybe just continued??)*
Two days later I found one new hoplo dead
Kribensises traumatized the tank - nipped their fins, etc. Took them back to store.

Tried to keep Gourami but he took on the aggressor role esp. during feeding time- wouldn't let anyone eat. Tried feeding rings, upper tank/ lower tank food, night/ day feedings. Nothing worked. Sent him back to store too.

Lost 3 of the new corys over next 2 weeks. I figured they were just too freaked out to eat, or they were already too weak by the time the Gourami left. Or the nipped fins were too much for their little bodies to heal.

Figuring the aggressive fish were the problem, bought 4 new Corys last week (and 4 Nerites) to keep the last two Corys company
All new Corys dead 2 days later

*Possible clues/ errors*
I don't see any evidence of disease BUT notice that the cats don't have barbells. Originally blamed on the aggressive fish, but I believe also could indicate a water quality issue? Thinking back, this seems like it could have been a problem for a while. Most would lose barbells then eventually die (but not ever all at once until recently)

*Acclimatization? *And I JUST (yesterday) found something new that said that corys are actually quite sensitive (as *NOT *indicated by the one I had for 3 years who survived through much) and that I shouldn't be doing the 'floating bag' thing... as recommended by my LFS. So that might account for the most recent deaths?

*pH?* But again the one Cory survived for 4+ years with same (and worse before I got him) water.

*Over-Cleaning?* When I was having the Gourami/ Kribensis issues, there was a lot of leftover food on the bottom of the tank, so I was cleaning it... too much? Have tested for Nitrites and Ammonia a million times and both remain at zero. Used to do about 25% water change 1x a week, but with feeding issues, now do about 10% every 2 days or so&#8230; will take some water out, a day later will put new water in, etc. Seemed it would be easier on fish with slower changes. Big tank for only 3 fish, so a less than full tank doesn't seem like an issue.

*Substrate issue?* The hoplo wedges himself between heater and glass. Assumed he was chilly and/ or hiding from aggressors, but now I wonder if he doesn't want to be on bottom? Someone suggested my black slag could be too sharp. They use it in their tanks at the store. I brought up concerns safety and it leaching and LFS assured me it was safe. Moved a big flat rock from under the water flow to other side of tank. One cory is sitting there now.

*Anaerobic pockets? *Moved some furniture around when cleaning before new comers came both times and now have found out that I should have been sifting the slag around during cleanings - which I wasn't.

My oldest Cory is on his last fins now (I think this time for sure). That will leave me with one unhappy spotted Hoplo and one unhappy green Cory. I can't with good conscience keep sending fish to their doom in my tank. I also can't with good conscience keep community fish nervous and lonely for the rest of their time with me either. I've read and read and read about fishkeeping but every time I turn around, I realize that I've done some new awful thing to these poor creatures. Clearly with so much info available I'm not always pointed in the right direction - until I realize I've made some new grave error. I initially was saving the two fish I got from imminent death. Now my fish need to be saved from me. Unless I can get this figure out, my fishkeeping days are certainly over. It's too cruel for them and too heartbreaking for me. I view my fish as pets not animated furniture, so I actually care.

Obviously it could be a bunch of things - but if anything specifically jumps out at anyone (and in particular how to fix it!), I would be really, really appreciative.

I seriously can't stand that I've done this to them.

Kat

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*My Specs*
Inhabitants: 1 juvenile spotted Hoplo
1 juvenile, 1 adult bronze (green) Cory
4 nerite snails
Aquarium Size: 736.60mm x 304.80mm x 2971.80mm
Temperature: 25.5 to 26
Furniture: 4 plastic plants, a rock 'cave' a piece of driftwood
Substrate: Black Sand aka Black Slag 
1 Tracked Nerite Snail (Neritina natalensis sp. "Tracked"), 
3 Zebra Nerite Snails (Neritina natalensis sp. "Zebra")
Filtration: AquaClear 300 aka: AquaClear 70
Lighting: Incandescent Solar Series 2 x 25 watt bulbs
Heating: Stealth Pro Shatterproof Heater
Current: Air (vertical)

According to http://gtaaquaria.com, the pH, etc. stats in my area are:
```````````````````````units```````max```````min``````average
Alkalinity`````````````mg/L````````87.8``````80.8 `````85.2
Conductivity```````````mhos/cm`````398```````280```````307
Hardness ( as CaCO3 )``mg/L````````125```````116```````122
pH`````````````````````````````````7.9```````7.4```````7.7
Total Solids```````````mg/L````````198```````168```````180
This comes out to a GH of less than 7 and a KH of less than 5.​


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## Jung

what kind of sand? never heard of black slag. Most black sand, such as Tahitian moon, are too sharp and not good for bottom dwellers.


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## BillD

My experience with corys is hit and miss. I once bought a group of 10 schwarzi, and found when I got them home they wouldn't eat. They wouldn't even look at live white worms. One was dead the next day so I gave them a treatment of the fizzy ant-parasitic, as these fish were wild caught. By the next day they were all eating so I finished the rest of the treatment. There was nothing else in the tank, but over the next several months I lost them one at a time, with no obvious symptoms; I would just find one dead in the tank.
Over the years I have had similar experiences with fish that do well, sometimes for several years, perhaps even spawning only to find them dead, again with no visible symptoms. Even after speaking with Ian Fuller, who knows a bit about corys (probably THE coryman on PlanetCatfish), there was nothing concrete he could give me.
Many of the corys (maybe even most) sold are still wild caught and may harbor parasites which may or may not be treated for at the store.


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## Kimchi24

Get a quarantine tank. I have a ten gallon tank that I have set up so I can cure any problems. I put in a multi cure tablet thing inch e water and only have up to three fish depending on the size. This allows for high living rate. I've had 8 cowries in my life and they have all survived. But my lfs has sold me several fish that haven't even made it a day in my tank. The stress of being in their tanks, being moved , and all that could have been a factor.


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## KatG

Jung said:


> what kind of sand? never heard of black slag. Most black sand, such as Tahitian moon, are too sharp and not good for bottom dwellers.


It's a type of blasting sand. It sounded worry some to me but my LFS uses it in all their tanks and said it was totally safe, but maybe they're wrong.


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## pyrrolin

I have always had great luck with cories. I also love these types of fish.

The best substrate for them would be a soft sand like playsand for example, but play sand needs to be mixed up a little every couple weeks so bad air pockets don't build up. what I did when testing out a sandblasting sand for another tank was rub it between my fingers hard to see if it hurt and I came to the determination that this sand would not be good for my little cories, but its great in my other tank with larger fish. A gravel like river rock that is rounded would be good also. Mine are currently with gravel that isn't too sharp but not optimal either.

you said ammonia and nitrites are always 0, but you don't mention nitrates. Because of the amount of water changes, nitrates are probably low, but you also mention feeding issues and having to remove extra food, so that hints that nitrates could be an issue. High nitrates aren't nearly as bad as ammonia and nitrites, but they are still bad for fish and decrease their life.

You also don't mention if the tank is planted or not or if there are lots of hiding spots available. Right now in my tank I can see a few sitting under some driftwood and plants relaxing. Plants also help reduce nitrates.

Also, what food are you feeding them? The main food I put in for my cories is shrimp pellets and the tank also gets veggie rounds and flake food so all the fish have lots of choices and balanced diet.

It seems your main issue in the past was aggressive fish. Often it is fine to mix cories with almost anything but there is always the odd bad ass who ruins the fun for everyone. Also, an aggressive fish would be even worse if there aren't lots of hiding places.

I believe the best way to acclimate them is open the bag up so it floats at the top of the tank and slowly add tank water to the bag.

Also, when adding fish in a new setup, its usually best to add the aggressive fish last after all the peaceful ones.

Hope some of this helps. Most of us learn by making mistakes, I for one have learned a lot this way


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## KatG

BillD said:


> My experience with corys is hit and miss.


Thanks for your reply - It's weird, i *never *would have thought corys to be fragile or 'hit and miss'. The one i rescued and then had for 3+ years survived a LOT of awful circumstances (no regular cleaning, no water conditioner, no heater, improper filtration), and survived many a goldfish and other fish in his old home. When i got him I made many rookie mistakes (over cleaning and I'm sure therefore un-(or under)-cycled tank) that he also survived.


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## KatG

pyrrolin said:


> you don't mention nitrates.
> You also don't mention if the tank is planted or not or if there are lots of hiding spots available.
> Also, what food are you feeding them?
> Most of us learn by making mistakes, I for one have learned a lot this way


Thanks for your suggestions and thoughts, pyrrolin 
Nitrates: I don't know. I didn't buy a testing kit as my LFS said I don't need to worry about them as long as i was doing regular water changes.
Tank isn't planted
Hiding spots/ furniture: Have 4 plastic plants, a piece of driftwood, and a rock 'cave' which is two flat rocks, 1 propped up by other, smaller rocks
Foods: Bloodworm (frozen) occasionally	
Sera San (dry / prepared) or Omega One Tropical Flakes (dry / prepared) previously daily, now once every couple of days since they don't seem to be eating
Hikari Sinking Wafers (dry / prepared) occasionally will switch out above for a half a pellet
RE: mistakes: I have no problem making them, but when it's costing the life of a little creature, I'm not ok with it.


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## KatG

Kimchi24 said:


> Get a quarantine tank. I have a ten gallon tank that I have set up so I can cure any problems. I put in a multi cure tablet thing inch e water and only have up to three fish depending on the size. This allows for high living rate. I've had 8 cowries in my life and they have all survived. But my lfs has sold me several fish that haven't even made it a day in my tank. The stress of being in their tanks, being moved , and all that could have been a factor.


Thanks, Kimchi24. I have thought about a quarantine tank, but a) I don't really have the room/ money. Also, i figured these are for major aquarists with lots of tanks who regularly have fish coming and going. What do people do with the tank when no fish are coming in? Shut it down then spend the time cycling it again? for 4 - 6 fish? I didn't really plan to be buying more fish... Like once every 2 or 3 years (or so I thought) or whatever.


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## Kimchi24

KatG said:


> Thanks, Kimchi24. I have thought about a quarantine tank, but a) I don't really have the room/ money. Also, i figured these are for major aquarists with lots of tanks who regularly have fish coming and going. What do people do with the tank when no fish are coming in? Shut it down then spend the time cycling it again? for 4 - 6 fish? I didn't really plan to be buying more fish... Like once every 2 or 3 years (or so I thought) or whatever.


I have a sponge filter in my axolotl tank that stays there until needed. I put that filter into my quarentine tank when i get new fish. It's just a regular 10 gallon. cost me 10 bucks.


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## Y2KGT

What I would do is remove all the substrate using just the hose part of your gravel vacuum while doing a 5 gallon water change. It's going to take you several days to get it all but I bet you have lots of left over crap in the substrate.

I did this in a couple of my tanks and think it makes it the easiest to keep your tank as clean as possible. As long as you have enough filtration on your take you don't need any sand or gravel. 

Try it. You have nothing else to lose.
--
Paul


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## malajulinka

Kudos to you for trying to do right by these poor leetle feeshies.

The first thing I'd recommend is to buy a test kit. Bare minimum, test for ammonia and nitrites yourself.

I found myself in a similar position setting up my first 10-gallon. I *thought* I understood the nitrogen cycle until one of my mollies got pop-eye, and then I was like, "whoa, lookit that ammonia reading!". LFS was little to no help, except for enthusiastically selling me the $40 test kit. Said molly is long gone since I read about them preferring brackish water, but I now run three wholly beginner tanks, and one has four otocinclus I've managed to keep alive for a month now, so I consider that a success.

Your "recently added" seems like a lot if it was all at the same time. I would test your water and see what the levels are at, then add, like, 1 more cory-friend, test again, and go from there. Can't speak to your substrate issues, but consider going at least a little planted - I have two 10-gallon hoods (that I bought off this forum for like $10 each!) sitting on a 30-gallon tank that keep simple Crypts, frogbit, and vals going just fine. Others have had similar luck with desk lamps. 

Again, kudos to you for trying your best. Somewhere once I read an analogy of pet stores and their relationship to fish in general that read, "If you went into a pet store, and in the kitten enclosure one of the kittens was dead and all the other ones were trying to eat it, how would you feel?" and it really made a mark on me. Good luck. It's a weird world, fishkeeping, but really rewarding once you figure it out.


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## bob123

The sand blasting black sand is very sharp and not good for bottom dwellers. Also are the dimension of the tank correct because you indicated that it is 10 feet long. Cories are one of the most sensitive cats, so when you added those new fish you may have caused a spike in the nitrates which is bad for the fish. Good luck with the rest of the fish.


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## KatG

bob123 said:


> The sand blasting black sand is very sharp and not good for bottom dwellers. Also are the dimension of the tank correct because you indicated that it is 10 feet long. Cories are one of the most sensitive cats, so when you added those new fish you may have caused a spike in the nitrates which is bad for the fish. Good luck with the rest of the fish.


Yes, by all accounts it appears that I was grossly misinformed by my LFS about the black slag.  It's sucks, because I would have paid for anything there - so it wasn't like I was trying to cheap-out. I just want the fish to be happy.

I'm definitely not great with math, and I copied those dimensions from a site that uses the metric system. Sorry for the confusion. I believe I only have a 27 US gallon tank. 29 (w) x 18 (h) x 12 (d) inches. Definitely not 10ft!


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## TorontoBoy

We all make newby mistakes, even after seemingly passing the newby stage. I have learned the drip acclimation method here, and it seems to work for me.

All new fish for me go into a 10G QT tank, along with a used Aquaclear filter and maybe a plastic plant. My QT is not fancy nor expensive, and I can pack it away after use. I've learned to never trust LFS fish, so quarantine them for at least 1 month. New fish can introduce diseases that can decimate your tank. 

You do need to test for nitrates as this will tell you when you need to change your water. Keep nitrates below 40ppm and you should be good.

Keep it up. There are tales of inbreeding that weaken some fish species, specifically neon tetras but might apply to others as well. I wonder if this applies to cories. Inbreeding makes it much easier for fish to die unexpectedly.


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## solarz

KatG said:


> Thanks for your reply - It's weird, i *never *would have thought corys to be fragile or 'hit and miss'. The one i rescued and then had for 3+ years survived a LOT of awful circumstances (no regular cleaning, no water conditioner, no heater, improper filtration), and survived many a goldfish and other fish in his old home. When i got him I made many rookie mistakes (over cleaning and I'm sure therefore un-(or under)-cycled tank) that he also survived.


I've had the same experience as Bill with my albino cories. I got 8 of them, and over a period of 7 months, I lost 5 of them to various causes. That was back in 2012. The remaining 3 cories are still with me after almost 20 months.

Cories love digging through sand, eating it and then spitting it out through their gills. They can only do that with very fine sand. I've kept my cories in both Tahitian Moon Sand (somewhat sharp) and fine silicate sand, and I've noticed definite improvement with the fine sand.

The fact that your cories don't have barbells is proof that black slag is unsuitable. Cories are constantly digging in the substrate, and if the substrate is coarse, like slag sand is, their barbells will wear down. I've read that cories can only find their food with their barbells, so it's quite possible that your cories starved to death without them.

Another thing to watch out for is feeding your cories specifically. I made that mistake at first, neglecting for long periods of time to feed sinking pellets specifically for the cories. I thought that the flakes I fed would wound up in the sand and the cories would feed on that. Unfortunately, I was wrong. I'm pretty sure that the last cory I lost was because of this, as since then, I've been regularly feeding them with sinking pellets or algae tabs, and have had no death in the past year.


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## Jung

yeah I would definitely remove the black blasting sand and do as Y2KGT suggested with siphoning it out.

some ppl use play sand from the hardware store with success. You don't need a deep layer, 5mm is sufficient. Here is a pic showing a cory with full length barbels


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## solarz

The sand that I use comes from a landscaping store across Kennedy from Pacific Mall. They are probably closed by now, but maybe you can find it in another store.

It is labeled as "fine sand", and it is indeed very fine and smooth to the touch. My cories love it, and it's cheap too. Only 6$ for a 50lb bag!


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## Fishfur

Is that the Milliken [ can't remember the rest of their name] place, you got the sand at ? I think they're open all year, but I could be wrong. They've sure been around for a long, long time.


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## KatG

Thanks again, everyone, for your help, suggestions and support... and for being patient and not tearin' me a new one!

I've got the slag out of my tank (though keep finding it  where's it coming from) - did it in 3 stages over the week. i can already see evidence that the barbels on my little guys are growing back!  I recognize that I'm not out of the clear yet though.

I've been looking for play sand. Online I found Cdn Tire: "Premier" play sand but FIRST review reads, "I just wanted to say that this sand is not at all suitable for use in aquariums. The ratio of silica to clay and mud is very low. Look for pool filter sand instead." Ack! Pool filter sand? So is this even better than play sand, then? Just got a little spending $$ so I don't care about the cost - I just want one, really peaceful tank, whose inhabitants are happy little swimmers (or crawers in the case of my nerites). Also, my tank's not that big, so won't be THAT out of pocket either way. Home Depot online has "KING" play sand and Lowes has "Quikrete". Looking online, the reviews for both go from "I'll never use anything BUT that!!" to "I'll never use that EVER again!!". Looking at online purchases at bigalspets.ca, the closest sand I can see is Carib Sea Super Naturals Torpedo Beach or Instant Aquarium Sunset Gold. Online everyone's got an opinion! And they're all different! Any of you fine folks care to weigh in about brands/ where to buy (in Toronto/ Online - I don't have a car and am downtown - south east end)?

I'll also be getting a QT Tank with that little extra $$. And I'm jumping to planted now too. Always wanted to, so feels like now's the time.

Aaaand my AquaClear 70 has started a slow leak, SO I'm on the market for a new filter (and aerator? Don't know how that works). Anyone have any ideas? I've heard a bio-wheel is the best (is it??), and that carbon in filters can cause "Hole in the Head Syndrome"? Anyone care to recommend a brand/ type that my catfish (or all fish) will apprecaite? Again, everyone's got an opinion when I do an online search. You nice people have taken the time to respond to my queries specifically, so figure you're the ones to listen to. I can't say that price is ZERO factor but, say, under $200 to ensure my fish have as much clean water and air they could want in my 27 US gallon tank? Is that a reasonable ball-park?



solarz said:


> ...I've read that cories can only find their food with their barbells, so it's quite possible that your cories starved to death without them.
> 
> ...Another thing to watch out for is feeding your cories specifically. I made that mistake at first, neglecting for long periods of time to feed sinking pellets specifically for the cories.


And thank you, solarz, for the note. I'm happy to say I've always given my cats a variety of foods - and that includes sinking wafers (perhaps the ONLY thing i've done right?!  ). I've noticed that they'll also eat the flakes most of the time though. I've heard the same amout barbels and the ability to eat - I hate to say it, SOME must be able to survie without them as I still have a few still alive - glad they've survived of course, but lament the loss that the slag *definately* caused.

Thanks for all input, and thanks in advance for anyone who can weigh in about specifics in regards to where to buy the best sand for my Corys and Hoplo cat, and also filtration/ aeration brands/ types/ agents.


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## pyrrolin

at home depot they have bags of play sand and they say play sand in big letters, cheap to and I have used it quite a bit, just needs lots of rinsing.

About your ac70 leaking, try to figure out where it is leaking, it could be a simple and cheap fix. If its a crack in the plastic, I would just silicone it. It could also be the rubber gasket between the motor and housing that needs to be replaced. One other possibility is the level is off and the media is too dirty, they tend to overflow over the back if the media is clogged and the level isn't right.

Glad the catfish are already doing better. I also notice that my catfish like to occasionally have hiding spots under driftwood and plants.

It sounds like the tank hasn't been planted in the past and I'd like to tell you some of the benefits of having live plants. Plants use nitrates which can greatly decrease the water changes needed. They also produce oxygen and can be a food source for some fish as well as providing places to hide. Plants can also decrease algae in the tank. If you want to avoid having to do too much work to maintain the plants, go with slower growing plants like java fern, anubias and avoid stem plants. Planted tanks can be very easy to maintain if you choose the right plants.


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## Fishfur

If the filter has a crack in the plastic I'd use crazy glue, then some silicone over the glued area on the inside, if it doesn't interfere with putting the media basket in place. Crazy glue is completely safe once dry.. they use it to glue coral frags to the bases they'll grow on, among other things. Just be sparing with it.. one drop goes a very long way. I would let it cure overnight, like many glues, it takes 24 hours to reach full strength. Any brand will do, some find the gel types easier to apply.

If the leak is from around where the motor attaches underneath, chances are good it just needs a new O ring. They don't cost much at all. I've had motors where part of the section that screws into the filter base isn't even there, and with a new 0 ring, still water tight and run fine.

Also check to be sure the filter is not tilted too far backward on the tank. The little plastic piece that fits into the hole on the front of the box is designed to be adjustable for almost any tank. It's meant to allow you to level the filter, so it's perfectly vertical, or even tilted slightly forward if need be. But if it's become tilted to the rear, you can get some overflow happening, which might well appear to be a leak. Happened to me when I had a used one that came without the leveling piece.. and my jury rig failed to operate as I hoped it would.


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## pyrrolin

Hey fishfur, not sure about normal crazy glue, gel is fine though. I know it is not safe to use normal crazy glue for attaching plants to stuff, can't remember the reason exactly so I recommend only using the gel as it is safe.

O ring, yeah, that is what the gasket is called, couldn't remember the common name used.

You would be surprised how many used ac filters don't have the leveling thingy anymore, maybe half the used ac filters I own have one. I looked for a replacement for my ac110 on ebay and the price was nuts, I just use a block of wood or something.


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## solarz

pyrrolin said:


> Hey fishfur, not sure about normal crazy glue, gel is fine though. I know it is not safe to use normal crazy glue for attaching plants to stuff, can't remember the reason exactly so I recommend only using the gel as it is safe.
> 
> O ring, yeah, that is what the gasket is called, couldn't remember the common name used.
> 
> You would be surprised how many used ac filters don't have the leveling thingy anymore, maybe half the used ac filters I own have one. I looked for a replacement for my ac110 on ebay and the price was nuts, I just use a block of wood or something.


Crazy glue should be fine, reefers use it all the time to glue frags. If it's good enough for corals, I think it's good enough for plants. Make sure that it's just cyanoacrylate, and not some other substance.


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## Fishfur

I've been into AK so many times and watched Daniel gluing coral frags and he's just using crazy glue to do it. And I know people who use it to glue moss to rocks, which I find amazing, since I can't get it to stick when the moss and the wood or rock is damp, so I tie instead. 

So far as I know the only difference between gel crazy glue and ordinary crazy glue is the gelling agent used to make it thicker and less runny. Other than that, most brands are simply cyanoacrylate and once it's dry, it's safe. Cheap or costly, it's all pretty much the same stuff. 

The toughest part of using crazy glue is the fact that is IS runny, and thus it's very easy to use too much. Too much of it weakens the bond. And it does improve the bond quite a bit to leave it to cure for 24 hours or so. This is true of a number of adhesives.


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## Jung

corys without barbels will be fine in an aquarium, but they don't look as cute without them. If the barbels are worn out completely, it will take years for it to grow back. If it's only partial loss, barbels will regrow quickly in the right environment.

If you know you'll be in the aquarium hobby for many years and have $200 to spare, it's a good idea to invest in a quality filter. You can get a nice Eheim canister for under $200.

BTW if you do switch to sand, it's a good idea to attach a sponge prefilter on your filter intake. This prevents sand going into your filter (that's probably why you still find black slag)

You can get them cheap on ebay, and attaching to filter intakes just requires a piece of rubber hose.
example:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Aquarium-Fi...233680196?pt=Fish_Filters&hash=item2a325e7f44

I have these attached to all my filter intakes and during weekly water changes, I squeeze rinse them in siphoned tank water. The sponges become mature, and if you need to set up a quick QT tank, just use one of these mature sponges.

It also reduces your filter maintenance to a bare minamum, I probably clean my filter once a year.

If you need to apply a tiny amount of superglue, apply a dab of glue on a pin head, I use this method for scale modeling.


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## Fishfur

Good idea Jung, pinhead's about right for not using too much glue ! I usually end up using the tip of a toothpick.


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## mistersprinkles

I think it's your substrate. I had slag-type sand in my first tank, and my corys barbells were always worn/burnt off for some reason. They would always end up dying.

I would strongly suggest you stop buying catfish or loaches of any kind for now, change to a natural substrate (corys prefer sand. Nice, smooth, natural sand.) You can use playsand from the hardware store. You have to rinse it religiously, for a very long time, and you can't add it to the tank with the fish/water/filters running. It's quite tricky to get in there and get the tank filled without causing clouding.

A nice dust free midground would be a smooth, natural gravel like the finest grade of estes brand gravel, in a darker color. I had my best experience with corys on this fine natural gravel, and on sand.









Bronze corys are my favorite. They seem the toughest, too.


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## KatG

pyrrolin said:


> About your ac70 leaking, try to figure out where it is leaking... It could also be the rubber gasket between the motor and housing that needs to be replaced.
> 
> ...my catfish like to occasionally have hiding spots under driftwood and plants


Heya pyrrolin,

Thanks for the input. It's leaking right where the motor meets the rest of the housing. There is no rubber gasket. If i silicone seal where it's leaking, it will mean I won't be able to take the motor part off to clean it. Its slow enough that i just have a little run-off cup there and it evaporates fast enough that I've never had to dump it... mostly i was asking b/c a few people have indicated that my filter (with charcoal, so "hole in head syndrome" according to a few??) is no good, so it seems like a good time to change that up.

Definitely my cats like to hide and explore, so i have drift wood, and will be doing a planted tank from here on in.


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## pyrrolin

should be cheap and easy to find a new o ring to seal it properly and be able to remove the motor for cleaning.

You lost me on the charcoal and hole in the head thing


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## KatG

Sorry! thanks to pyrrolin AND Fishfur, solarz, Jung AND mistersprinkles!!

I guess i clicked on an older thread and didn't see the other responses!

pyrrolin - there is no O ring. It's just a thread on the plastic motor part. I even have a bunch, but i don't see how they'd fit.

re: hole in head and charcoal (I should have said carbon) 
On a specifically catfish message board, someone said, " It seems that the jury is out on using carbon in filters so you may want to google "Hole In The Head" and Carbon.... I only use carbon in my filters now when I need to remove meds from the water."

Any thoughts/ experience on that one (particularly since it's carbon not charcoal!!)?

Kat

p.s. fishfur, what's "AK" that you've been into?


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## pyrrolin

I don't use carbon either unless there is a specific need at the time like removing meds, removing tannins or something

AC 20, 30, 50 and 70 all use the same motor, just the impeller is different. So, just to be 100 percent accurate, I took the motor off my ac 70 and here is a pic to show where the O ring goes. I bet they take a little effort to get on. In the pic I put a red line to show where the black o ring is. Because they are rubber, they can dry out and crack over time.


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## KatG

pyrrolin said:


> I took the motor off my ac 70 and here is a pic to show where the O ring goes. I bet they take a little effort to get on. In the pic I put a red line to show where the black o ring is. Because they are rubber, they can dry out and crack over time.


Wow, thanks!

I will take mine apart today. That could very well be the problem, however the filter has cacked out on me several times now and the filter basket is broken (one of the sides is no longer attached). It also really blows stuff around (including the fish!) in my tank, even on the lowest setting. Maybe its supposed to do that, but I think it might be a little too powerful for the tank. Its definitely much bigger than I need (it came with the tank), but I figured you can't have too much filtration. I have my driftwood in the way of the stream to try to break it up a bit, but it's strong enough that the substrate gets moved so that part of the tank is always bare.

Though most importantly: are they supposed to restart automatically if there's a power outage once the power goes back on? I assume so. Mine does not. The motor will start again, but if there's a break in the power, the impeller off-sets itself, so won't sit properly in the motor, so it can't suck the water back up the intake tube, so the motor just runs with no water. I've found it quite hot on more than one occasion. Our families live out of town, so we're often away during holidays, and this has caused problems more than once. We're lucky to have good friends close by! To get mine going again, I have to fill up the casing with water to give it a hand. I suppose it has something to do with the water pressure being the thing that holds the impeller in place.


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## Fishfur

AK is Aquatic Kingdom, the store, which is next to Dragon aquarium, and just down from Big Al's.

And when you read posts about carbon and charcoal in filters, they are usually talking about the same thing. The 'carbon' in filters is truly activated charcoal, which is different from the sort of charcoal you might get for a BBQ, say, or horticultural charcoal. Both of those are simply wood that's been burned long enough to consume all the other organics leaving only carbon behind, which burns hotter and longer. 'Hort' charcoal is used for orchids and often for plants that like marshy conditions to help keep the water smelling nicer.

Activated charcoal, or aquarium charcoal, is processed at extremely high temperatures, which creates countless tiny tubules, which adsorb organics and some chemicals, like chlorine, for one thing. And it's ADsorb, not ABsorb.. 2 different ways of uptake.

Carbon, or activated charcoal, was, certainly when I kept fish in my teens, always used in the filters. It was changed and tossed out along with all the other media regularly, as maintenance. The nitrogen cycle was not understood at the time.

Later, and I'd have to go look myself to find the details, some research found a connection between some fish illnesses and possibly other problems and the constant use of charcoal in the filters. It has been falling out of favour since then, and is used more for the reasons you cited than as a regular additive. But manufacturers of filters have failed to get the message and continue to include carbon/AC in their filter cartridge refills. So many people use it without really being aware that they are doing so.

Suggestion for reducing the power of the outflow on the filter. If it's blowing the fish around, you can reduce that with a home made baffle. Get a plastic water bottle, disposable type. Cut off the bottom as evenly as you can, you want a nice straight line.

Then measure the width of the weir on the filter, the inside width from side to side. The weir is the part the water falls over when it leaves the filter. Then cut off the cap end of the bottle so you end up with a 'tube' the same length as the weir. Now cut the bottle tube in half lengthways.

Fit one long edge underneath the weir, it should just stay there. Tape the other edge to the lid of the filter. Might have to adjust the length a bit for it to stay put but not much. 

This 'baffle' pushes the water flow sideways and more or less divides it in half, one half going left, one half going right, so it's not so powerful a flow, but doesn't reduce the filtration. It just divides the output and sends it sideways instead of out and down.


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## KatG

Fishfur said:


> Suggestion for reducing the power of the outflow on the filter. If it's blowing the fish around, you can reduce that with a home made baffle.


Thanks Fishfur! My home made baffle will go nicely with the rig MacGyvered up to hang my fish feeder on my wall (when out of town). I was finding that when it was hung inside the tank, the humidity was so high that it gummed up the fish flakes so would only work for a few days. Not aesthetically pleasing, but it works!

Kat


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## pyrrolin

Lube the impeller shaft with vasaline, recent tip posted here and it should start up after the power goes out. Adding a sponge prefilter will reduce flow also. And one other thing, keep the tank topped up, lower water level causes the flow to move substrate more. I have the same issue at times and topping up helps


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## bob123

I wouldn't use Vaseline to lubricate the impeller because it is a petroleum product which contains oil and this may cause a film on the water surface. From the sounds of the description given of the filter it might be better to buy another filter that matches the size of the tank. As I have experience some filter brands will restart after a power outage, others will not.


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## TorontoBoy

Fishfur said:


> ...
> Suggestion for reducing the power of the outflow on the filter. If it's blowing the fish around, you can reduce that with a home made baffle. Get a plastic water bottle, disposable type. Cut off the bottom as evenly as you can, you want a nice straight line.
> 
> Then measure the width of the weir on the filter, the inside width from side to side. The weir is the part the water falls over when it leaves the filter. Then cut off the cap end of the bottle so you end up with a 'tube' the same length as the weir. Now cut the bottle tube in half lengthways.
> 
> Fit one long edge underneath the weir, it should just stay there. Tape the other edge to the lid of the filter. Might have to adjust the length a bit for it to stay put but not much.
> 
> This 'baffle' pushes the water flow sideways and more or less divides it in half, one half going left, one half going right, so it's not so powerful a flow, but doesn't reduce the filtration. It just divides the output and sends it sideways instead of out and down.


This is a very interesting output baffle for the ACs. I will try it.

My baffle is much simpler. Get a thick elastic band and put it around the output spout of the AC. Find some tulle material from a fabric store. You can also cut some from an old fancy dress. Tulle is polyester, should be safe for fish and will not degrade in water. Cut the tulle in a rectangle so that when you double over the tulle onto the elastic band it will hang into the water.

The tulle, while flexible will act as a bridge for the water, both reducing the force and noise of the waterfall. Adjust the tulle's distance from the water for more or less waterfall and therefore force.

As already stated, topping up your water level to close to the lip of the AC will really quiet down an AC.


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## pyrrolin

the amount of Vaseline needed for the shaft won't hurt the tank, may people here do this with no problems and great results


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## Fishfur

That's for sure TorontoBoy.. Only time I hear mine is if the water level drops or the impeller is off kilter; which happens just often enough when the power has been off that it makes me just a 'tetch nervous. They restart about half the time, it seems to me.

I can't take credit for the bottle baffle idea, I found it online, on another forum. But it's a neat trick and easy. I think that netting idea is cool too but I'd wonder if the netting would not become fouled with time, with stuff getting caught in it ?

My greatest concern with using something like Vaseline as a lubricant is that because it's petroleum based, it will rot or dissolve anything made of pure rubber. Petroleum based products and rubber should never be allowed to contact with each other for any length of time.

I'll grant you, it's not like Vaseline will dissolve a chunk of rubber overnight, but given a bit of time to work, it will turn rubber into gooey glop. When I was a kid, I took riding lessons, and you had to wear riding boots. Rubber ones were the only affordable sort, so that's what most kids had. They were dull and ugly.

I wanted mine to shine like the leather ones did, so I rubbed them with Vaseline. My Dad observed me at my polishing project and pointed out that I'd end up with holes in the boots if I continued with it. He also told me I'd be buying new boots out of my allowance if I kept it up. A dose of dish liquid soap and a bit of scrubbing, & no harm done.

Now, I don't know for sure what they make AC O rings from, but just in case they are rubber based, I wouldn't allow any Vaseline or mineral oil to contact them.


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## BillD

If an impeller needs vaseline, either the shaft or the interior hole of the impeller is worn. The shaft is supposed to be lubricated by a film of water that is between the shaft and interior of the impeller. A build up of debris in the cavity can sometimes cause the impeller to run off center, causing abnormal wear. Occasionally the interior of the cavity can become scuffed up which can also be a problem. Any or all of these things can prevent start up.


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## Fishfur

That's a great tip BillD.. I didn't know that's how they worked, and it makes perfect sense when you think of it. 

All of my AC's have been purchased used, and there is no knowing how they were treated by previous owners. Some of the motors run really well, some have these niggling issues when the power's gone off, and may not restart. I probably should have just bought new impellers for them, even if the old ones still worked, since the price I paid for most of them was so little, even adding ten bucks for a new impeller wouldn't have mattered so much. Considering a brand new motor is $20.+tax at Als.. a used filter with a working motor is usually a great deal, even if all it is used for is parts.

But now I'll make sure to inspect closely next time I clean, to see if there's any observable damage inside the impeller wells in the motors, as well as checking the impeller shafts and magnets for damage. All I've ever really done with any of them is clean them, and I don't think I've ever looked that closely at these areas beyond ensuring they're clean.


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## perfectgravity

I bought a used AC as my first filter and it had the same issues. Sometimes after a water change it would fail to restart and sometimes it would make grinding noises.

I tried Vaseline and it helped a bit, but it wears off. 

The best thing is to just buy a new AC. I was amazed at how quiet a new one can be.

I use the AC 70 on my 30Gal tank with great results. I don't use carbon so I bought another bag of the ceramic rings to put in there, if you take out your carbon and put nothing back in the flow will be too high.


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## mistersprinkles

perfectgravity said:


> I don't use carbon so I bought another bag of the ceramic rings to put in there, if you take out your carbon and put nothing back in the flow will be too high.


Plus you'll be wasting precious space in your filter. Foam, bio, bio works, or foam, foam, bio. I like Aquaclears. They're very versatile.

They sell parts btw, you don't have to buy a whole new filter if you have a problem with the motor. Most Big Al's sell the parts. Menagerie on Parliament st sells them.


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## Fishfur

I think most places sell parts for ACs. They're so popular, and essentially very reliable too. So far I've only had to buy one new motor, and I did it mainly to make sure I'd have one that worked in case of a failure. BAs sell 'em for 20 dollars. 

Though if you need a lot of parts, buying a filter might be cheaper. It's no different than most things. Parts cost more than buying the whole thing in one go. But if you only need one part, new is usually safer and at least then you know how old it is. I have to admit, with used filters, you are gambling a bit, since you haven't any way to know how old the filter is nor how long it may have been running or sitting in a box for that matter.


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