# How often to feed the fish ?



## ppaskova (Apr 27, 2010)

Hi Guys

I have 10Gl tank with 6 neons, 2.5 guppies (one of them is a 2 moths old baby), 1 swordtail and 5 bottom feeders (2 otts and 3 small curry cats). and 9 amano shrimps. I have this tank for 4-5 months now and it has low light live plants in it (It's planted tank). I use to feed my fish (after first two months) twice a day but had been suggested to feed 1 time a day and don't feed 1 day a week to help me fight algae that I've got on my plants (as part of fighting algae I already decreased my lighting, added more plants, added 9 amano shrimps and 2 otto cats, otherwise it will be less fish in the tank) My algae has decreased (but not gone completely) but now my fish picked up on my Cherry Shrimps (which was living in harmony with them for 3 month). I went out of town last week for 3 days and did not feed my fish and when I came back I noticed no cherry shrimps anymore (and they have enough places to hide in my planted tank). Today I discovered the piece that look like piece of body of Cherry shrimp and when I put it back into my tank, my neons happily eaten it (although it was not small). Here is my question. If I feed my fish more I'll get more algae if I feed my fish less they will pick up on smaller things like shrimps. So what to do to keep a good balance ? 

Thanks


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## bumbleboo (Jun 6, 2010)

Hmm... well, maybe it might be good to get a bigger tank for them. That is pretty overstocked I think...

It's just an "estimate" but here's how your tank adds up, without the corycats (I don't know what type you have). http://www.aqadvisor.com/AqAdvisor....AqSpeciesWindowSize=short&AqSearchMode=simple

I also don't know what type of filter you have, but I would really suggest getting a larger tank for your fishies and keep the feeding to a minimum for now.


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## ppaskova (Apr 27, 2010)

bumbleboo said:


> Hmm... well, maybe it might be good to get a bigger tank for them. That is pretty overstocked I think...
> 
> It's just an "estimate" but here's how your tank adds up, without the corycats (I don't know what type you have). http://www.aqadvisor.com/AqAdvisor....AqSpeciesWindowSize=short&AqSearchMode=simple
> 
> I also don't know what type of filter you have, but I would really suggest getting a larger tank for your fishies and keep the feeding to a minimum for now.


This type of answer I have expected. I'm not going to go to discussion regarding overstocking as You have to find out where it's realy comming from (and you will be surprized. I can tell you from my personal expirience that 20 years ago in my home contry I use to successfuly keep 20 guppies in 5Gl tank for over 3 years with no filter but only airpimp). I have AC20 filter and I have been on that webside and I don't trast it (same reason as above). And 9 amanos and 2 otts is for fighting algae I would not add them if not for algae. Plus the whole reason I have live plants is to have more fish otherwise I put plastic ones.
When you saying feeding to the minimum, can you be more specific and explain why ?????


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## bumbleboo (Jun 6, 2010)

What are your water parameters? Did you actually see your fish picking on the shrimp? Because it seems more likely (to me, at least) that high ammonia/nitrates killed your shrimp and that the fish are eating the remains.


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## ppaskova (Apr 27, 2010)

bumbleboo said:


> What are your water parameters? Did you actually see your fish picking on the shrimp? Because it seems more likely (to me, at least) that high ammonia/nitrates killed your shrimp and that the fish are eating the remains.


I'm going to BAs on Monday to test my watter. I don't have those expencive test kits to test it right away. But I do have Seachem amonia alert http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/AmmoniaAlert.html
And it shows no warnings or so. So I know for sure I don't have amonia. I'm not sure about nitrates but I do change 20% of watter weekly, use prime as conditioner, add Stability bio support and cherry shrimps should me more hardy than the fish. All my fish doing well and looks heathy (including amanos).


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## Joeee (Apr 3, 2010)

ppaskova said:


> This type of answer I have expected. I'm not going to go to discussion regarding overstocking as You have to find out where it's realy comming from (and you will be surprized. I can tell you from my personal expirience that 20 years ago in my home contry I use to successfuly keep 20 guppies in 5Gl tank for over 3 years with no filter but only airpimp).


As the OP does not want to start a discussion concerning what they have in their tank (And whether or not it is overstocked or not), I will try not to start a discussion but to leave a small comment. The only thing I can say about your current 10G is that it's overstocked and about that 5G with 20 guppies in it, it is possible. But improbable if these guppies were not fry. I guess have to be the Doubting Thomas and say that proof by example isn't really proof at all, because something has happened in the past does not mean it inevitably happen in the future and that it can be accepted as a universal law.
Truthbetold, I guess you could say that all 'space requirements' are rough approximations, I don't think fish can really tell the difference between swimming in a half gallon more or less of water in your tank due to the size. But nonetheless, they can tell the difference between an overcrowded tank and an empty one.

Thanks[/QUOTE]



bumbleboo said:


> What are your water parameters? Did you actually see your fish picking on the shrimp? Because it seems more likely (to me, at least) that high ammonia/nitrates killed your shrimp and that the fish are eating the remains.


There's a few possibilities I can think of;
1. Ammonia spike (As you have proposed) caused a few possible sources
2. Shipping stress (if the shrimp were recently introduced)
3. Improper diet (may be missing something)
4. Fish were hungry and ate them (3 Days without feeding the fish will get them hungry)



ppaskova said:


> I'm going to BAs on Monday to test my watter. I don't have those expencive test kits to test it right away. But I do have Seachem amonia alert http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/AmmoniaAlert.html
> And it shows no warnings or so. So I know for sure I don't have amonia. I'm not sure about nitrates but I do change 20% of watter weekly, use prime as conditioner, add Stability bio support and cherry shrimps should me more hardy than the fish. All my fish doing well and looks heathy (including amanos).


I would do a larger water change, I've also heard a few negative things about that particular product. I would just go to a local LFS if I wanted to test my water for a tank without anything that isn't horribly sensitive.


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## Joeee (Apr 3, 2010)

Forgot to add this in the original post:

How long have you had this tank running?
What are you currently feeding them?

Also, if you leave the lights off for one day every week, it helps with the algae but slows down plant growth.

Btw, I decided against trying to answer your question because some of my recent research and concluded a different answer from what I would normally respond. I would normally tell you to feed them twice, once in the morning and once at night. Servings should be the size of their heads.


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## ppaskova (Apr 27, 2010)

Joeee said:


> As the OP does not want to start a discussion concerning what they have in their tank (And whether or not it is overstocked or not), I will try not to start a discussion but to leave a small comment. The only thing I can say about your current 10G is that it's overstocked and about that 5G with 20 guppies in it, it is possible. But improbable if these guppies were not fry. I guess have to be the Doubting Thomas and say that proof by example isn't really proof at all, because something has happened in the past does not mean it inevitably happen in the future and that it can be accepted as a universal law.
> Truthbetold, I guess you could say that all 'space requirements' are rough approximations, I don't think fish can really tell the difference between swimming in a half gallon more or less of water in your tank due to the size. But nonetheless, they can tell the difference between an overcrowded tank and an empty one.
> 
> Again I'm not going to go there as for example I have friend who has been for over 20 years in this business and he has a a 45Gl tank at home (for years with no fish fighting) that has over 50 fish in it with minimum size of the fis 3" and typical one 6".
> ...


There's a few possibilities I can think of;
1. Ammonia spike (As you have proposed) caused a few possible sources
The indicator / alert should show ? Rest of the fishes is fine, watter is cristal clear (althrough I lost 1 otto cat 2 weeks ago as I also had to go out of town for 3 days as I originaly had 3) 
2. Shipping stress (if the shrimp were recently introduced)
They wore there for 3 months
3. Improper diet (may be missing something)
may be but I've been feeding them the same food since the begining
4. Fish were hungry and ate them (3 Days without feeding the fish will get them hungry)
This is what I think is happen

I would do a larger water change, 
How large 30 -50% ?
I've also heard a few negative things about that particular product. 
Amonia alert ? And what bad about it ? I switched to seachem products as I've been told they are the best

I would just go to a local LFS if I wanted to test my water for a tank without anything that isn't horribly sensitive.
Doing it on Monday (my LFS is local BAs)

[/QUOTE]


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## ppaskova (Apr 27, 2010)

Joeee said:


> Forgot to add this in the original post:
> 
> How long have you had this tank running?
> What are you currently feeding them?
> ...


I had this tank for 5 month
I feed my fish wrdley flakes mon-fri, frized blod worms on sat and nothing on Sun

Also, if you leave the lights off for one day every week, it helps with the algae but slows down plant growth.

Thanks for a tip. My plans are groving good and I can afford to keep lights off for 1 day

Btw, I decided against trying to answer your question because some of my recent research and concluded a different answer from what I would normally respond. I would normally tell you to feed them twice, once in the morning and once at night. Servings should be the size of their heads.
Why ? Too much ? I feed them once a day serving is enough for them to eat everything in 1 min (about size of 1 cent coin or less)


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## Joeee (Apr 3, 2010)

ppaskova said:


> I had this tank for 5 month
> I feed my fish wrdley flakes mon-fri, frized blod worms on sat and nothing on Sun
> 
> Also, if you leave the lights off for one day every week, it helps with the algae but slows down plant growth.
> ...


http://www.gtaaquaria.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16676

How big are these fish? A 1-cent coin amount of Wardleys (which I started using again) sounds like too little.


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## ppaskova (Apr 27, 2010)

Joeee said:


> http://www.gtaaquaria.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16676
> 
> How big are these fish? A 1-cent coin amount of Wardleys (which I started using again) sounds like too little.


6 neons -1.5" each or smaller
guppies: mother - 2.5" father - 2" son - 1"
swordtail close to 3"
rest of them are bottom feeders and no more than 2"
So how much, how often (ones or twice a day, every day or so) and how long it should take them to finish it ?


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## qwerty (Dec 15, 2009)

ppaskova said:


> cherry shrimps should me more hardy than the fish.


They aren't. Cherry shrimp are quite sensitive to poor water quality and contaminants. Moreso than fish. But I'm gonna end that thought there and just leave it at that.

For feeding, a lot of people just put a reasonable amount of food in, let the fish eat all they can within a minute, then scoop out whatever's left.

Are you dosing any sort of plant fertilizers? If you are, that would probably have more influence on algae than overfeeding.

Flourish Excel however will help reduce or at least discourage algae growth.


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## pat3612 (Jan 29, 2008)

In my time of keeping fish and shrimp, I have seen mollys swordtails and plecos eat cherry shrimp . They dont always eat them right away but they will nip at them and enough nipping will kill them . I rarely
keep shrimp with fish anymore unless its very small fish like neons or something they stays at the top of the 
water coloum. Shrimp only tank is always your best bet. Just my opinion. I feed my fish every other day and I never feed flake food.


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## ppaskova (Apr 27, 2010)

qwerty said:


> They aren't. Cherry shrimp are quite sensitive to poor water quality and contaminants. Moreso than fish. But I'm gonna end that thought there and just leave it at that.
> 
> For feeding, a lot of people just put a reasonable amount of food in, let the fish eat all they can within a minute, then scoop out whatever's left.
> 
> ...


Yes I use Flourish tablet as I have amzona sword and it needs it. I use to use fFlourish liquid but this is what started the algae in the first place as you mentioned. I'm very afraid to use excel as I red that it may kill fish and specialy shrimps (althrough I don't have any of my cherries anymore).
As per watter quality I'll know for sure on Monday, when I go BA to test it but it looks good and my friend who works for BAs checking it regularely and tells me I don't need to test it as it very good (but I'm still going too)


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## ppaskova (Apr 27, 2010)

pat3612 said:


> In my time of keeping fish and shrimp, I have seen mollys swordtails and plecos eat cherry shrimp . They dont always eat them right away but they will nip at them and enough nipping will kill them . I rarely
> keep shrimp with fish anymore unless its very small fish like neons or something they stays at the top of the
> water coloum. Shrimp only tank is always your best bet. Just my opinion. I feed my fish every other day and I never feed flake food.


What do you feed your fish with ? My fish and cherry shrimps were living in peace for 3 months. I guess after decres feeding on my fish they decided to pickup on my cherries (I'm assuming it's swordtail, I had pleco but I removed them as it was outgrowing my tank. May be I need to remove sword tail as well ?). I still have few amano shrimps in the tank but they big enought to not to be eaten at the moment.
I'm also setting up 1Gl tank to put there new cherries. But I'm not sure how many I can put there and how to keep watter quality good there as it very small tank


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## qwerty (Dec 15, 2009)

Excel wont be a problem, as long as you follow the instructions on the bottle.

A lot of people purposely overdose with Excel because

1) in many cases more WILL give better results
2) it's fairly safe

But of course, if you go purposely putting too much in, then you can't exactly sit back and sensibly say that the stuff is bad for fish and shrimp.

Personally I keep cherry shrimp with my fish, and have been using excel in that tank for a year without any ill effects.

Also something I believe might have contributed to this impression is that a lot of people use the cap to measure out doses. However the cap actually holds a fair bit more liquid than the bottle says it does (really, measure it yourself sometime). So if you're using the cap to measure your doses you're probably overdosing.


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## Holidays (Apr 18, 2010)

I only feed all of my fish once a day, except for frys (under 3 months twice a day). I have owned discus, troph dubs, neon, cardinals, torpedos, tiger barbs, cories, loaches, oscars, cubans, fronts, malawis, tangayinka, gupies, bettas and angels. I feed them in the morning so there is less aggression for the rest of the day when there is no more food and they can keep looking for food for the rest of the day - keep the tank cleaner.


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## Holidays (Apr 18, 2010)

even primarily nocturnal fishes like kuhli, polyps and most catfish, they can be trained to eat in the morning. No one feed them at night in the fish store.


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## camboy012406 (Jun 11, 2010)

qwerty said:


> Excel wont be a problem, as long as you follow the instructions on the bottle.
> 
> A lot of people purposely overdose with Excel because
> 
> ...


im againts on that. i followed all the dosing instructions at the bac,. im not overdosing it either but my shrimps after 3 months all died i think exel is bad for shrimps and fish. btw how many gallons has your tank?


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## camboy012406 (Jun 11, 2010)

mine i feed them after water change and after 3 days. its 
twice a week


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## qwerty (Dec 15, 2009)

camboy012406 said:


> im againts on that. i followed all the dosing instructions at the bac,. im not overdosing it either but my shrimps after 3 months all died i think exel is bad for shrimps and fish. btw how many gallons has your tank?


29gal.

Many people use excel with shrimp and do not have problems. I don't just mean a handful of people either, it's pretty common.

If my shrimp died, excel would probably be around the bottom on the list of things I'd suspect.

This topic's had plenty of discussion on the internet though so rather than hijacking someone else's thread, I'll just link 1 discussion from user experience, and a statement from seachem on their own forums and use the info provided as you will.

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/shrimp-other-invertebrates/62339-flourish-excel-shrimp.html

http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=2732


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## camboy012406 (Jun 11, 2010)

, I'll just link 1 discussion from user experience, and a statement from seachem on their own forums and use the info provided as you will.

http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=2732[/QUOTE]

do you think this guy/people who works from seachem has a petshrimp? and know more about shrimps? man,not all. the company just paying them to sell their products. they dont know nothing about it thats my experience man.


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## pat3612 (Jan 29, 2008)

Ive used excel for well over 2 years in my shrimp tanks never a problem.


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## camboy012406 (Jun 11, 2010)

pat3612 said:


> Ive used excel for well over 2 years in my shrimp tanks never a problem.


with shrimps?


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