# Cloudy water even after water change



## Atom (Sep 17, 2014)

Hi everyone,

I've had cloudy water for a while and I'm not sure why. I've kept up with weekly water changes and the tank seems cycled with little-no ammonia and nitrates are present. 

There is some brown-ish spots of algae (diatoms?) on the glass and the tank's been running for almost 2 months now so I've heard that's normal in newly cycled tanks.

I added some rocks that have limestone in them and my water is soft-neutral so I'm wondering if that's the culprit. The cloudiness looks like tiny white particles that move with the water flow. I'm not sure if bacteria looks like that or if mineral particles would show up in the water like that.

Anyone have an idea of what it is and how to improve it? Thanks!


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## Y2KGT (Jul 20, 2009)

Bacterial blooms look milky. 

What type of filter are you using? Perhaps adding some fine filter material such as filter floss can help filter out these fine particles?
--
Paul


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## Atom (Sep 17, 2014)

Using an aquaclear 50 HOB filter with a sponge and nylon scrub in the basket and a sponge on the intake. 

Maybe you're right about needing finer filter material. Is there anything you could recommend? Filter floss you said? Are there alternatives and anything you could buy cheaply or re-purpose household stuff as DIY? I think I've heard of people using pillow stuffing or something similar, but I'm not entirely sure if that's what they used 

Thanks in advance!


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

I think you just need some floss in the filter. If you can see tiny particles, floss should remove them. Called water polishing, and sponge, unless very fine indeed, won't remove the finest particles.
There are products that will clump together small particles to make them easier to filter out. this is called flocculation, and they work, but floss will do it too. I would not repurpose anything that was stuffed in a cushion, because chances are it will have an antibacterial treatment in it that's going to be bad for the BB in the filter.
But you can buy pillow stuffing at Walmart, or thick quilt batting at Fabricland, and just make sure it does not have any treatment to make it 'stay fresh longer' or is antibacterial.


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## Atom (Sep 17, 2014)

Perfect  quilt batting or stuffing it is then! Thanks for the help guys!

I've never had a HOB filter before so I wasn't sure if a sponge on the intake and one in the basket was sufficient, but I guess it's not quite enough mechanical filtration. Is that all it needs then or is there anything else (filtration media, simple changes, etc) that I can do to help with the filtration of my tank?

I'll update down the line when I get some floss into my filter and hopefully the particles clear up. Thank you!


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## Atom (Sep 17, 2014)

Update: I've been filtering with finer media for a few days now with no improvement  

However, it seems like a fish had fry in my tank so I took the opportunity to separate the fry into a smaller tank along with some of the tank water. This tank doesn't have a filter or any moving water at the moment so any movement would be due to the fry (I sadly only managed to catch one) swimming around or by the tank being nudged. 

When I shined a light into the tank, the white specks from the main tank were visible, but it seemed like some were moving on their own. It's VERY hard to see and tell if they're moving but they seem to collect and form a trail along bits of crushed flake food. The movement is minimal, but if I focus hard on single specks I can tell they're moving independently of the other specks. 

They're also relatively evenly spread throughout the water column, whereas dust or sediment would probably settle towards the top or bottom. All of this leads me to believe that I might have an outbreak of infusoria in my main tank. Is this at all possible? Would infusoria look like tiny whiteish specks as I described? Is there anything I can do to remedy this and is it harmful to my tank?

Thanks again everyone 

Edit: They may also be diatoms I'm not sure.


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

I think you may have some copepods or something similar in the tank. If so, they are harmless and fish should eat them.

If the fish do not eat them, stop feeding the fish. They can go some time without being fed, but when they get hungry they should start hunting the critters down.

The only other thing I can think of is that they may, possibly, be vorticella. If they are, fish may not eat them fast enough to keep up with them. I've seen one other post about these, but a digital camera pic showed them pretty clearly, on every leaf in the affected tank. In that case, I think you'd have to remove the fish and use something that kills inverts. But first, see if shorting the fish on food encourages them to eat these things.

Even vorticella are not at all dangerous.. but can become unsightly if their numbers grow too high.

Diatoms are not animals, do not move, and are brown in colour. Normally seen on the glass or decor.


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## Atom (Sep 17, 2014)

Thanks for your insight  you've always got detailed replies.

I've actually seen a cyclops in the tank before so they could be copepods, but I'm not sure what kind they'd be. Super tiny and slow-moving specks . I think I spotted a paramecium today in the fry tank, but the rest are too tiny to identify.

I'll try the fasting method then to see if that helps. I'm sure they'll survive without food for the weekend at least. 

I'm actually curious enough to the point that I'm trying to get my hands on a microscope to see what they are. I don't think they're harming the fish or anything, but I'm too curious to leave it alone now . If I do manage to get a microscope, I'll try to get some pics and update on here again with (hopefully) an answer to what they are.


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

If they turn out to be paramecium or some other small critter that fish eat, I'd sure love to get some of them to try to culture them.

I'd be curious too, I'm always interested in the micro life forms that appear from time to time in tanks.

The fish are quite capable of managing without food for weeks if need be. I've left mine unfed for two weeks while on vacation [ I worry more about tank/filter malfunctions than the fish starving]. I once left them for three weeks, though the 3 weeks was because I had no choice.. it was one of those things where you just hope you come back to live fish.

Nothing died in the 3 weeks, not even my frog, though I'd not care to do it again.

Edit.

I should probably mention, the tanks all had fairly robust populations of scuds. The scud numbers were down to near nothing by the time I got back. So the fish didn't really starve for 3 weeks or even 2 weeks, they hunted down the scuds when they got hungry. It's one reason I like to have them and similar living things in my tanks. Poor Froggie was very hungry when I got back though. No random insects hanging around for her to snack on.


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## Atom (Sep 17, 2014)

There must be millions of these tiny creatures so I don't mind at all parting with a few if they're useful to others. They seem to gather around pieces of flake food  perhaps they're eating them? Perhaps that's how they showed up in my tank in the first place. I found a few pellets trapped under a rock in my tank and since cutting back feeding it seems like the number of specks is declining.

I may get access to a microscope next week so I'll keep you guys posted


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

A bit odd.. so many of the little guys like copepods are filter feeders, but I guess there must be some that aren't. I used to have Ostracods.. seed shrimp. Supposed to be filter feeders but they spent most of their time on the sponge filter or the bottom, rummaging around. Kind of cute, really. Much larger than what you've described, you could clearly see the split shells on the Ostracods I had.

Keep us posted, be very interesting to find out what they are.


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## Atom (Sep 17, 2014)

No luck on getting the microscope today, but will try again this week. 

The reduced feedings definitely have cut down on the number of specks and the main tank is mostly clear now. Of course this happens right when I want to take a closer look at them  . I suspect they appeared after several shrimp pellets got stuck under a rock and I didn't find them for quite a while so it led to a bloom of whatever these specks are or a bacterial bloom, which is what these specks are feeding on. 

The fry in the smaller tank is doing fine despite the specks being in the water and gathering around the flakes in the tank. I don't think the specks are large enough for even the fry to bother with eating though.

Determined to get some magnified pics to show you guys soon


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## Atom (Sep 17, 2014)

Got a microscope! It's only a household one so the quality isn't spectacular, but I was able to see the specks moving at least. I wasn't able to get pictures that were good enough to show, but my dad suspects the specks are cyclops(es?), though I think they're too small.

I've got some videos of the brown stuff stuck to the walls of my aquarium. The shrimp are always on the walls eating so I figured it was just sessile algae, but it seems to be a mix of diatoms and maybe rotifers? I saw several creatures move from the masses of brown/green goo, but I'm not sure what they are. You can view them here http://tinypic.com/player.php?v=ru5x6g>&s=8#.VJTrdF4AAA and http://tinypic.com/player.php?v=10o1qp1>&s=8#.VJTrmV4AAA as a speck that moves around the top of the central mass of green/brown. Click the magnifying glass (bottom right of video) for full screen view and Esc to close full screen afterwards.

I took a sample from my infusoria culture as well because I was curious. I added peas, bok choy, fish food, and tank water with the "specks" to start it off. Ended up with some paramecium, which were obvious to see under the microscope, but harder to see in the videos. You can focus on the top right of the recycle symbol to see them here http://tinypic.com/player.php?v=2s0eibt>&s=8#.VJTuWl4AAA and they're right in the centre of http://tinypic.com/player.php?v=2zyv78o>&s=8#.VJTusV4AAA. Sorry for the movement in the 2nd video I was trying to get better focus.

Hope these play for you guys! Maybe I can get some help with the ID of these things. Actually now that I look at them online, a lot of quality is lost  everything's really hard to see.


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

Sadly, can't see much happening in the vids. But kudos for trying ! Love to have a sample of whatever they all are, especially the parameciums.


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## Kajendra (Dec 12, 2010)

Wow this is pretty cool!

I can see some movement in the places you mentioned, but maybe if you make the files available via Dropbox in your public folder? Most of the quality will be retained 

I'm curious how zoomed in you are, put a dime for scale maybe?


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## Atom (Sep 17, 2014)

I've still got the microscope for a while so maybe I can improve on the videos. Maybe dropbox would preserve the quality  a lot was lost when I transferred it to tinypic so I'll have to try that out.

It's unfortunate that I couldn't get closer. My dad forgot to bring home slides so I was using a bottle cap to hold the specimens. Also, as I mentioned, the number of those white specks are constantly decreasing in my tanks so it's kind of a lucky draw to see if the samples I take even have any in them.

Since Fishfur mentioned that some of these creatures are filter feeders, I was wondering if I could use food colouring in a tiny sample and then dilute the solution afterwards. This way the creatures would uptake the dyed food particles and appear whatever colour the dye is instead of being clear. That was another major problem I noticed; most of these organisms are clear and hard to see.

The magnification is about 50-75x and that's about the maximum that's possible on that microscope :\. I'll be sure to include a comparison picture or two so you guys can get a sense of the scale . I'll try again soon!


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## Atom (Sep 17, 2014)

I couldn't wait  

I think I've got much clearer videos now using a different method. I'll post them soon, but will post the pictures for scale here.

First picture is of an older $20 bill zoomed into the Queen's eye.

Second picture is of a strand of java moss. I figured it'd be something people on here could readily identify with and might be interested in seeing. You can tell the lack of focus the microscope has at depth in this picture. Leaves that are closer/farther away from the lens show up as blurry. I tried to account for this in my newer videos by focusing on the organisms based on where they swam in the "column" of water. The quality of the microscope is partially to blame, but so is the fact that they aren't mounted and flattened on a slide. Also, the camera quality and uploading takes away from what you can actually see in person so I apologize in advanced for some blurriness.

Third picture is a single leaf from the java moss strand.

Videos coming soon! Hopefully I'm not spamming with this thread.


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## Atom (Sep 17, 2014)

Videos are ready! Posted to dropbox as suggested .

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/mg2cq21y529zt4m/AACrMFzteeGSjt0YWue9fyhLa?dl=0 Copying and pasting won't work so be sure to click the link if possible.

First video titled "paramecium closer" shows what I think are paramecium swimming around at a closer view than my previous videos. These were from the infusoria culture I mentioned in a previous post and gathered using a chopstick dipped into the culture and the collected drop of water from that was dabbed onto a piece of clear film.

In the second video titled "paramecium focus", I tried to account for the fact that the paramecium were swimming at different depths in the droplet of water by attempting to focus on them while they swam across. Not the best, but I tried 

The third video titled "what is this" is from my main tank and was collected the same way as the other two samples were. It's blurry until around 13 seconds into the view where something brownish shows at the top right area. I tried to focus on this as it moved as well and it seems like it sticks one end of itself towards the ground and pivots upwards and sticks the free end of itself a bit of a distance away to move. I'm not entirely sure what it is, but it might be an amoeba of some sort based on its movements being similar to a pseudopod's. Anyone got ideas on what this is?

If there's still interest in this, I could take a sample of the paramecium culture and feed them dyed yeast in order to see them better. I've done the same for brine shrimp in school and it's worked before. Also, if anyone wants to see the other videos I posted before on tinypic, but perhaps with better quality, let me know and I'll upload them to dropbox as well.


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

WAY cool. Parameciums for sure, no mistaking that shape. The critter that's moving around at the upper right in the last one, honestly, the way it moves reminds me of the small leeches I get with black worms, which I feed to the Betta fish. Weird little thing but clearly, very tiny.

I would seriously like to get a nice sample of this before they die off. I did have a paramecium culture before, got it at auction. The label said to feed a drop or two of milk, just enough to cloud the water very slightly, and leave it until it cleared before feeding again. I was hoping to feed them to larval fish, but ended up with only one fry, so the culture eventually died off.. I should have split the thing to keep it going.


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## Atom (Sep 17, 2014)

I hope there aren't mini leeches in my tank.

I'd be more than willing to give you some of the culture as I don't really have a use for it. I made it for "fun" to see if it would work out and I guess it did  .

What would be the best way to sustain this culture? Part it into several more containers and let those grow out? Or would it be better to feed the single container of culture and maintain that? How would I know when the culture is about to crash and what can I do to keep it going?

Maybe shoot me a PM sometime and we'll sort out a way to get you some of these paramecia  They came straight from my tank so they shouldn't be dangerous in any way  can they even be dangerous at all?


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## Atom (Sep 17, 2014)

A little update: I found more cyclops looking creatures in the tank. Not too many more, but just 2-3 or so. Does anyone know how these things show up in tanks in the first place and are they of any use in an aquarium?

Also, I think the organism in the video titled "what is this" might be a rotifer in motion. It matches videos I've seen of rotifers elongating to move around in search of food. Unfortunately, I can't see any of the characteristic "wheels" on the specimen so I'm still not 100% sure, but that's a closer guess I suppose


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

Possible, but without greater resolution, difficult to be certain. Cyclops make good fish food too, they're a bit larger than rotifers are.

As for how they show up, they come with fish and plants, in the water or on the plants. If conditions are favourable, they may multiply to the point they become noticeable. They don't just magically appear, though it sure can look like that. There are probably a few in most tanks, just not enough for most of us to notice most of the time, and if you have fish, mostly they get eaten.


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