# Plant Issues



## brapbrapboom (Sep 2, 2009)

i think that my plants are not liking the amount they are getting, i have tual t5HO on my 20g on my tank, theyre leaves are becoming yellow and some are actually detaching themselves, also small holes on theyre leaves... I am currently not dosing any co2, and i am doubting the nutrients as well... 

So heres the question, how long should I turn on my lights? Is co2 really necessary or I could just stick with Flourish excel? Or do I have to dose it with DIY co2 and flourish excel?

P.S.

Im planning to get one flourish excel later so if there are any other good brands please do let me know asap. Thanks guys!


----------



## Harry Muscle (Mar 21, 2007)

brapbrapboom said:


> i think that my plants are not liking the amount they are getting, i have tual t5HO on my 20g on my tank, theyre leaves are becoming yellow and some are actually detaching themselves, also small holes on theyre leaves... I am currently not dosing any co2, and i am doubting the nutrients as well...
> 
> So heres the question, how long should I turn on my lights? Is co2 really necessary or I could just stick with Flourish excel? Or do I have to dose it with DIY co2 and flourish excel?
> 
> ...


I'm guessing those are 24W T5HO bulbs in that fixture, which means you have way way way too much light for this tank if you don't intend to use CO2. I don't even think Excel would be enough carbon to support that much light. You also need to be dosing micro and macro nutrients with this amount of light. If you'd rather not do all that, see if you can remove one of the bulbs and still have the fixture working. If you can, you'll have a nice amount of light to work with where CO2 isn't required, but Excel will work nicely. You might not even need Excel with just one bulb.

Harry


----------



## brapbrapboom (Sep 2, 2009)

Harry Muscle said:


> I'm guessing those are 24W T5HO bulbs in that fixture, which means you have way way way too much light for this tank if you don't intend to use CO2. I don't even think Excel would be enough carbon to support that much light. You also need to be dosing micro and macro nutrients with this amount of light. If you'd rather not do all that, see if you can remove one of the bulbs and still have the fixture working. If you can, you'll have a nice amount of light to work with where CO2 isn't required, but Excel will work nicely. You might not even need Excel with just one bulb.
> 
> Harry


Yes it is 24"T5HO, i will replace it again with the regular light and canopy that the tank came with, just going to replace the bulbs.. I might still want to dose some flourish excel, does this condition the substrate as well? or just the plant itself? how will i add some nutrients on the substrate for healthy rootings?


----------



## BettaBeats (Jan 14, 2010)

plant tabs around the base of plants are small tabs of nutrients that the plants can use to grow healthy.

It seems that with 48W of light over your tank that the plants were using a lot of nutrients during photosynthesis, which is probably why you have yellow leaves with holes. It's not that you are (maybe you werent even) dosing, its just that the amount of light requires lots of nutrients and CO2.


Do you have a 20 Long or a 20 High tank? I have 48W of light on my 15 tall aquarium, which is 20"x10"x18" and I don't seem to have the problems you are. I dose pretty heavily though


----------



## brapbrapboom (Sep 2, 2009)

I do have a 20g tall without co2 or dosings, what do you dose anyway? Do you also have co2?


----------



## waj8 (Jun 30, 2010)

Your tank is carbon limited so dosing fertilizer is kind of moot. Only very small amounts of fertilizer would be required. You only have to support an hour or so of plant growth per day before the plants use up all the CO2 and can't grow any more. Sounds like a potential algae farm.


----------



## brapbrapboom (Sep 2, 2009)

waj8 said:


> Your tank is carbon limited so dosing fertilizer is kind of moot. Only very small amounts of fertilizer would be required. You only have to support an hour or so of plant growth per day before the plants use up all the CO2 and can't grow any more. Sounds like a potential algae farm.


So what would you reccomend? Dont use co2? Just fertilizers?


----------



## deuces (Oct 11, 2010)

brapbrapboom said:


> So what would you reccomend? Dont use co2? Just fertilizers?


Actually I think he meant the opposite. You need to provide more co2 as its limiting


----------



## souldct (Nov 26, 2009)

It sounds more like nutrient deficiency to me. Small holes might indicate potassium, or possibly magnesium.


----------



## waj8 (Jun 30, 2010)

I mean with that light level the CO2 is going to be used up within maybe an hour. I would be very careful of adding fertilizer before fixing the CO2 or reducing the lighting. Of course, if you reduce the lighting too much the plants will die from lack of light. Whenever plants don't get what they need they cut their losses and reallocate resources. Some leaves get abandoned. The rotting leaves contribute to algae growth. There could be nutrient deficiencies but it's hard to say. Looks like you should go with a Diana Walstad type tank and reduce lighting or go with at least DIY CO2.


----------



## ShrimpieLove (Apr 26, 2010)

Hey there! 
I have that same light aquatic life dual t5ho 24"
Someone here on the forum suggested taking a look at the PAR data chart : http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/lighting/97622-par-data-selecting-t5ho-light.html
Its a long thread but if you read thru it kind of helps you figure out how high up to put your light, i did notice less algae and less melting/holes in leaves etc when I moved my light off the tank and put it on two wall brackets above the tank, almost a foot above... 
I also dose with aqueon liquid micro/macro fert twice a week/ no co2


----------



## BillD (Jun 5, 2006)

waj8 said:


> I mean with that light level the CO2 is going to be used up within maybe an hour.


I'm very curious about this statement. As long as there is gas exchange at the surface you will never have zero CO2. The level of CO2 will remain in equilibrium with the atmosphere. This might be a case where increased agitation would increase available CO2 rather than deplete it. CO2 dissolves in water more readily than oxygen, so if the fish aren't providing CO2, than the atmosphere will. The equilibrium will be maintained. The question is whether the plants can use up the CO2 faster than it can be replaced. I don't know if this has been studied, but it is reasonable to assume that increased agitation would help a tank with lot's of plants and no CO2 supplementation.


----------



## waj8 (Jun 30, 2010)

You are right that the CO2 will never drop to zero but it sure disappears fast under high light. You can measure the pH difference when the lights come on. If you are not going to add CO2 then the next best thing is to have lots of surface agitation. However, I have never been able to control algae without CO2 and with high light levels. Plant growth is just not good enough. Not sure why algae has such an advantage in this situation. You would think that both algae and plants would be at an equal disadvantage. I think inconsistent CO2 levels is very hard on plants. Poor growth leads to rotting leaves and algae just takes advantage. I think aquatic plants are always somewhat CO2 limited. Once they use up the CO2 at the leaf surface they are screwed they basically have to wait for some new CO2 to float by. Whatever the reason though, there is an amazing increase in growth in a CO2 injected tank.


----------

