# Alder cones don't lower pH for me.



## igor.kanshyn

After reading about people who use alder cones to lower their pH I decided to check how that work.
So, I've got an alder cone, placed into a plastic container with tap water. Then I waited for a week and test pH in there.

Ph is 7.6, this is what I usually have from a tap.



*The question is what I did wrong*? Should I wait more, or boil them before.
Is it important what time of year I collect them?


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## Chris S

You are using tap water, what do you expect?


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## Beijing08

Chris S said:


> You are using tap water, what do you expect?


lol, an almond leaf would lower the pH of tap water. So would soil in tap water.
I don't think that was a mistake of his...


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## Chris S

I've tried almond and oak leaves in tap water, it takes about a week (for me anyway) to see any change in pH.


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## imke

Hi Igor,

two things might give you another result:

1. Rinse the alder cones with boiling water - it will give you kind of extract and water will get brownish.

2. Use higher quantity of alder cones.

Besides, as this is a natural product, you may have quality differences.

- Imke


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## bettaforu

Igor, most people use Alder cones for medicimal purposes, as they help stave off some bacterial problems. I use them for this purpose, but not to lower the PH. I also use IAL or Blackwater extract for the same purpose, but these do lower PH over a period of time, but not an immediate thing. 

I am now using the Netlea and ADA soil with my tap water and PH seems to be staying below the 7 mark which makes me happy, and my shrimps are getting berried (CRS/CBS/SSSS) so obviously its a better soil for us with high PH in tap water.


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## cb1021

Doesn't all wood matter lower ph??

Is peat moss still in?


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## BillD

Tap water has a lot of buffering capacity so it will resist a change in pH. It is important to understand the buffering if you want to play water chemist. If you take a sample of alkaline water and add acid slowly, you will have no change of pH until the buffer is consumed. At that point a very small amount of acid will have a significant affect on pH.


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## CrystalMethShrimp

bettaforu said:


> Igor, most people use Alder cones for medicimal purposes, as they help stave off some bacterial problems.


Can Alder cones be replaced by almond leaves or do they have additional benefits?


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## Bwhiskered

It could be as to when the alder cones were collected and how. Were they picked in late October or November just after they had been touched by frost and had dried and opened to release the seeds? If they were picked up off the ground or picked this spring then they were all leached out. One alder cone should drop the ph in a litre of water to about 6 over night even in tap water and turn it a dark amber. Yes the ph will not stay down in tap water as it contains a buffer.


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## igor.kanshyn

Chris S said:


> You are using tap water, what do you expect?


Honestly, I expected to have lower pH 
Like here: http://www.aldercones.com/ for instance


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## igor.kanshyn

Chris S said:


> I've tried almond and oak leaves in tap water, it takes about a week (for me anyway) to see any change in pH.


I tried almond leaves with tap water, I had a yellow water in a tank. Ph was the same of might has been changed unnoticeable.


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## igor.kanshyn

imke said:


> Hi Igor,
> 
> two things might give you another result:
> 
> 1. Rinse the alder cones with boiling water - it will give you kind of extract and water will get brownish.
> 
> 2. Use higher quantity of alder cones.
> 
> Besides, as this is a natural product, you may have quality differences.
> 
> - Imke


Thank you, that looks logical.

I'm worrying about cones as well.
I've collected them in Spring. So, they spent a whole winter under snow on a ground.
That might sucked everything from them.


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## Chris S

BillD said:


> Tap water has a lot of buffering capacity so it will resist a change in pH. It is important to understand the buffering if you want to play water chemist. If you take a sample of alkaline water and add acid slowly, you will have no change of pH until the buffer is consumed. At that point a very small amount of acid will have a significant affect on pH.


This is the most important aspect of what I was trying to say. Toronto water has a high KH, so can resist changes in pH. Over the course of time, things like oak leaves, almond leaves and alder cones will lower the pH - assuming large water changes aren't made with tap water (ie. adding more carbonates and bicarbonates).

If you want to see if they really work, you would have to perform your test using RO water, and even then it may take some time.


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## imke

igor.kanshyn said:


> Thank you, that looks logical.
> 
> I'm worrying about cones as well.
> I've collected them in Spring. So, they spent a whole winter under snow on a ground. That might sucked everything from them.


Agree, most people collect them in autumn when they are ready to drop drown or still hanging on the trees.

The link you posted shows that adler cones for sure influence pH in long terms.


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## Zebrapl3co

Bwhiskered said:


> It could be as to when the alder cones were collected and how. Were they picked in late October or November just after they had been touched by frost and had dried and opened to release the seeds? If they were picked up off the ground or picked this spring then they were all leached out. One alder cone should drop the ph in a litre of water to about 6 over night even in tap water and turn it a dark amber. Yes the ph will not stay down in tap water as it contains a buffer.


Thanks for clarifying that Charlie. I guess I might as well throw away the 2 bottles of alder cones I collected this spring.

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## solarz

Sorry for reviving an old thread, but where do you guys collect your alder cones?


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## matti2uude

solarz said:


> Sorry for reviving an old thread, but where do you guys collect your alder cones?


+1 I'd like to know as well.


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## pyro

I live in Kitchener... I need an Alder tree to dip in my tanks to get my pH below 8


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## Bwhiskered

No use collecting the cones until late October after they have been touched with frost and have turned brown and open to drop their seeds. Even the dry leaves are acidic and may be used. Many creeks and wet areas have them on their banks. I visited Rattray Park in Mississauga a few weeks ago and found them on the waterfront trail at the Turtle Creek Bridge.


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## bettaforu

I usually pick them off the trail on the lakeshore road marina. You need to make sure they are open and very dried out and again leave them outside for a while and constantly shake them out....mine had hundreds of spiders living in them 

I usually grab a bag at some of the auctions as those are more likely to have sat for a long period so nothing in them.


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## Bwhiskered

bettaforu said:


> I usually pick them off the trail on the lakeshore road marina. You need to make sure they are open and very dried out and again leave them outside for a while and constantly shake them out....mine had hundreds of spiders living in them
> 
> I usually grab a bag at some of the auctions as those are more likely to have sat for a long period so nothing in them.


You won't likely find spiders if you pick them after a hard frost.


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