# If I switch to RO, will that rid me of Cyano?



## ajdelosr (Jul 11, 2010)

Did a water test, everything is good which it always is except when cyano first started to develop, I believe I used to overfeed my fish which caused more nitrates and ammonia. So i started feeding less and siphoning out the cyano as much as I could every now and then. I use tap water purified with seachem prime. Now the cyano isn't as bad as it once was but it still comes back the next day but just not as fast. I played around with moving the powerhead and it only seemed to move where the cyano is the thickest. I do 5-10% water changes twice a week, sometimes more. My coraline algae is spreading fine, my corals are doing awesome...
So if I start using RO water (not RO/DI, I don't have money for that, the RO one from bulkreefsupply is 75 and then cheapest RO/DI unit is 140 I believe), will that slow down and eventually make the cyano disappear? Do I even have to siphon it out at that point?


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

I had a lot of problems with cyano initially too, and one experienced reefer recommended I do two things - skim wetter and reduce photoperiod.


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## ozi (Aug 23, 2007)

I've been using tap water + Prime for well over a year and never had any cyano, nor hair-algae at all. Actually my nitrates are pretty high (30 ppm), but that's due to a high bioload in a nano tank. Surprisingly the fish and corals are thriving 
I know someone who got rid of his cyano using erythromycin...but I don't know the dosage. I'm sure its very small, or else you could crash your tank. He said he also stopped the skimmer for a day or two during the treatment.


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## loonie (Mar 29, 2008)

I had this problem before and recently in my 30gal tank. First clean up all the red algae with a toothbrush on the rocks, use a nylon net to clear of all the floating algae and on the sand. Turn off lights for about three days. You could try chemi clean, sometimes it does not work depending. You could also use chemi pure after doing all the clean up. For me chemi clean did work before but my recent experience it did not work, so I did a proper clean up and use chemi pure, It seem to be working so far. Also, check your flow sometimes its due to slower flow.


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

How long has your tank been setup? A lot of new tanks will go through a cyano stage and it is just something you have to get through =D


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## loonie (Mar 29, 2008)

My 30gal tank has been running for more then a year. Yes alot of people will say you need RO unit etc. I only age the tap water for a few days and refill everytime I use.


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## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

Using RO/DI is just part of "controlling" what's going into your system. I have a many clients in the GTA that are using tap water and no cyano, once matured of course . Water flow and watching "nutrient import" are also important.

AMP hit it right on the head, once you notice cyano or any nuscience algae growth and it seems to get "worse", first thing to do is cut back the photoperiod and physically remove as much of the cyano/algae as you can. I prefer chopping it back to 4hr/day for the first week and increase by 1hr/wk until you find that "sweetspot" of minimal algae growth between cleanings.

HTH


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## Big Ray (Dec 8, 2009)

I gotta say, cyano is a bacteria, which forms a mulm, which has incredible ability to remove n and p. I personally do not find turning lights off a solution, but more of a looking away from the problem, skim really wet, to get the bacteria out, siphon out the cyano patches, and recheck your feeding, I have always fed my fish frozen and started using pellets 2 weeks ago, and I already see a difference, they were right, frozen is really messy, just what worked for me in tha pst.


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

cyano, while being a bacteria, is photosynthetic, so limiting the lighting period will help limit its growth while you get things under control.


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## ajdelosr (Jul 11, 2010)

funny thing is, the cyano started a couple days after I made the comment on these very forums stating "I use tap water and nothing's happened to me so far..."

I think netting all the cyano out will have to be my best bet.

P.S. my tank has been set up since the end of May and fully operational and cycled since July.


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## Big Ray (Dec 8, 2009)

Chris S said:


> cyano, while being a bacteria, is photosynthetic, so limiting the lighting period will help limit its growth while you get things under control.


never said its not 

but light + cyano = nutritions lowered

light + no nutrition = cyano stops growing lol

its simple logic lol

you can also turn lights off and cover the tank with dark screens for 7 days and all types of algea will die off, but you did not solve your algea problems, u just stopped looking at the tank.

Edit : I'm sure Even Eric didnt mind my comment, as I was not saying anyone else is wrong ! facts are facts. I just shared some other points, which worked well for me to make cyano stop growing and die off.


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## ajdelosr (Jul 11, 2010)

BTW, I notice that first thing in the morning, it's not there as if it loses its colour and then after a couple hours the redness is back.


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## Big Ray (Dec 8, 2009)

ajdelosr said:


> BTW, I notice that first thing in the morning, it's not there as if it loses its colour and then after a couple hours the redness is back.


and by the end of day there are oxygen bubbles in it ...

photosynthesis ....


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## ajdelosr (Jul 11, 2010)

Most of it seems to be growing on my substrate, so my question is if I scoop out the substrate can I wash out the substrate I've taken out or is it just no good anymore, like say I rinse it through tap water thoroughly?


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Big Ray said:


> never said its not
> 
> but light + cyano = nutritions lowered
> 
> ...


Actually, apparently it's not so simple as that - a recent article (I think in CORAL magazine) went over how cyano algaes can actaully adapt to lowered nutrient conditions and continue to thrive, while drawing on different sources of nutrition to grow. Because of that, you have to do a variety of things - change flow, lighting and nutrient availability.


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## Big Ray (Dec 8, 2009)

ameekplec. said:


> Actually, apparently it's not so simple as that - a recent article (I think in CORAL magazine) went over how cyano algaes can actaully adapt to lowered nutrient conditions and continue to thrive, while drawing on different sources of nutrition to grow. Because of that, you have to do a variety of things - change flow, lighting and nutrient availability.


flow and nutritions, I Agree, lighting, not hours of photo, but flux and par and temp of the lighting, but I know what article you are talking about, let me find it and post it here along with more info on what cyano actually is. (its a GOOD bactria mulm, gone bad, so all we need to do is shift its properties to more basic (opposite of acidic cyano))

(actually noone reads the scientific papers I post here, so lets say u are right ... ) lol


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

ameekplec. said:


> Actually, apparently it's not so simple as that - a recent article (I think in CORAL magazine) went over how cyano algaes can actaully adapt to lowered nutrient conditions and continue to thrive, while drawing on different sources of nutrition to grow. Because of that, you have to do a variety of things - change flow, lighting and nutrient availability.


Important to note that cyanobacteria is able to use inert forms of "nutrition", such as nitrogen and turn them into organic, or usable, nitrogen - interestingly enough it is thought that chloroplasts of plants are just evolved from cyanobacterium becoming incorporated into the structure of the plant. Other instances are things like lichen and some other types of fungi (and even some legumes) that have symbiotic relationships with cyanobacteria. It is always nice to have a friend that can create something out of nothing, no? 

It has also been thought that actually increasing nutrient levels can help rid a tank of cyano - mind you I believe most of the examples have been from the addition of increased levels of co2 and nitrate and in freshwater tanks. I'm not sure I necessarily would advocate this method.

I've had much success, as Eric mentions, with increasing flow rates - and increasing dissolved oxygen levels in the water in conjuction with what wtac mentions, ie. lowering your photoperiod. Just make sure you are always removing the stuff - as when it dies, it can create havoc in your tank.


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## Big Ray (Dec 8, 2009)

Chris S said:


> Important to note that cyanobacteria is able to use inert forms of "nutrition", such as nitrogen and turn them into organic, or usable, nitrogen - interestingly enough it is thought that chloroplasts of plants are just evolved from cyanobacterium becoming incorporated into the structure of the plant. Other instances are things like lichen and some other types of fungi (and even some legumes) that have symbiotic relationships with cyanobacteria. It is always nice to have a friend that can create something out of nothing, no?
> 
> It has also been thought that actually increasing nutrient levels can help rid a tank of cyano - mind you I believe most of the examples have been from the addition of increased levels of co2 and nitrate and in freshwater tanks. I'm not sure I necessarily would advocate this method.
> 
> I've had much success, as Eric mentions, with increasing flow rates - and increasing dissolved oxygen levels in the water in conjuction with what wtac mentions, ie. lowering your photoperiod. Just make sure you are always removing the stuff - as when it dies, it can create havoc in your tank.


Source ? or have you done the study ?


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## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

Atlas, R. M., Bartha, R., 1997, Microbial Ecology - Fundamentals and Applications, 4th ed, Benjamin/Cummings Science Publishing, pg 420

Lenhinger, et al, Principles of Biochemistry, 2nd Ed, 1997, Worth Publishers, pg 360, 588.

Prescot et al, Microbiology, 3rd ed, 1996, Wm. C. Brown Publishers, pg 199

Starr, C. and Taggart, R., 1997, Biology - The Unity and Diversity of Life, 17th ed, Wadsworth Publishing Company, pg 351-353, 847, 858, 880-881


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

I think wtac did some work with cyanobacteria in relation to waste water management.


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## Big Ray (Dec 8, 2009)

well that's better than posting stuff from internet and saying its your own , 


but I do like to understand what you guys are talking about  if anyone is interested in explaining it to me.

algea, and cyanobactria are photo synthesis. we get that. so light, + nutrition and they grow.

you guys are saying, take the light out of equation and it will die off. that is true as well. photosynthesis algea with no light will die. 

but that does not mean you solved the algea Issues, nor does it mean you exported nutritions (as cyano who ate the no3 is now dead and no3 back in tank?, nor does it mean nutritions are now low (same environment) and algea wont come back ! 

so in case of cyano, turning lights off for 4 days will kill it all, and once you turn the lights on again, it will grow back. unless you increase flow (which means increase gas exchange and increased o2) and lower nutrition.

if Im missing something, Please let me know


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## 50seven (Feb 14, 2010)

ajdelosr said:


> Most of it seems to be growing on my substrate, so my question is if I scoop out the substrate can I wash out the substrate I've taken out or is it just no good anymore, like say I rinse it through tap water thoroughly?


+1 on this question. I'd like to know also, to help me manage the algae blooms in my new 1 mo. old tank.

Thanks!


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## Salty1 (Aug 1, 2009)

I have had cyno outbreaks in the past and have found removing your liverock and "cooking it" which means placing it in a dark covered container of water for a few months time, is the only fix for large issues.

Steps:

Clean off all liverock with a toothbrush
Place all rock in a covered container that has a heater & circulation pump
Each week re-clean the rock and re-stack the layers, replace water
Keep this up until all signs of issue passes

The reason cyno can all of a sudden pop-up is that your substrate & liverock will absorb phosphate until it reaches a stauration point then releases back into the water. This is why many people report excellent water perametres but still have an on-going break-out.

Hope this helps


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## Big Ray (Dec 8, 2009)

sorry, just to add, po4 can bond with many stuff and precipitate on sand or live rock, algea is actually can release an enzyme which can break the bond in po4 percipitate and consume its po4 !


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## Big Ray (Dec 8, 2009)

Big Ray said:


> well that's better than posting stuff from internet and saying its your own ,
> 
> but I do like to understand what you guys are talking about  if anyone is interested in explaining it to me.
> 
> ...


sorry all, I gotta correct myself here, after speaking to some very experienced reefers, and also dealing with some Dino algae in my seahorse tank just recently, it seems that lowering or cutting the light out, would give other bacteria (good ones) a chance to consume the nutrition before cyano or dino or any other (bad) bacteria gets a hand. I reduced lighting, and dosed bacteria, and now dino is gone, hoping it wont come back,

sorry and thanks  I learned something new.


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## BWI (Nov 13, 2008)

if your after a inexpensive RO unit let us know! i will put together a unit for you!


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## ajdelosr (Jul 11, 2010)

The cyano has slowly been disappearing, so I think it'll be gone in the next few weeks. I've been too lazy to net all of it out but it seems to be disappearing on its own. Some things I did were reduce feedings as well as the amount of food being fed, reduced lighting down to like 7-8 hours a day, and more frequent water changes. They didnt' have an immediate impact, but it did reduce the "comeback" of the cyano.


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