# Are these Dwarf Sag or something else?



## zfarsh (Apr 7, 2011)

Hi there,

I went to buy some dwarf sags from a fellow member in the forum, but the dwarf sags are much much biger than what i have at home. Mine are less than 2", whilst his were 4" - 6", similar to Valisnarias. As i never had CO2 or good lighting in any of my tank, i donot know their effect and maybe they really make them much bigger, so wanted to check it with fellow members here. I have included 2 pictures, the first being my small ones in my tank (yes they have alga and dont look clean), and the other one the new ones i bought in a bucket.

So, if these are really the same plants, ie dwarf sags, and i trim the new ones to the right size, will they stay small (no CO2 or good lighting) and give me a grass like effect such as my others???

In any case, the new plants i bought look so much healtier than mine, but i just want to be able to have the grass type effect with these low maintenance low tech plants.


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

The second picture is vals, no doubt about it. You can see the difference in the texture of the leaves. I have both in my tank, so I can spot the difference right away.


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## zfarsh (Apr 7, 2011)

that's what i was afraid of.... it was sold as dwarf sags .... 
I dont think it is possible to use this as foreground!!! 

They look nice, but i have no where to place them right now, and not what i was look for at the moment anyways (specially with my bad experience of my gold fish eating them in the past, but wont touch the dwarf sags).


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## zfarsh (Apr 7, 2011)

thanks for the reply by the way.

If a second member can confirm this as well.


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## BillD (Jun 5, 2006)

The second plants may not be Vals, but rather dwarf chain swords, which can grow to a maximum of about 6", especially when crowded. I grew several thousand of them over the last few years, and distributed many through DRAS auctions.. They grow like wild fire (in plain gravel) and will completely cover the bottom. I believe they are Echinodorus augustafolia.


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

BillD said:


> The second plants may not be Vals, but rather dwarf chain swords, which can grow to a maximum of about 6", especially when crowded. I grew several thousand of them over the last few years, and distributed many through DRAS auctions.. They grow like wild fire (in plain gravel) and will completely cover the bottom. I believe they are Echinodorus augustafolia.


Are you referring to this?
http://www.shrimptank.ca/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Pygmy-Chain-Sword-1.jpg

I don't have dwarf chain swords, but the OP's plants look exactly like the vals that I have in my tank.

One way to find out is to plant them, and see if they grow over 12" tall.


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## zfarsh (Apr 7, 2011)

I believe pic 1 (my current plants in my tank) is the real dwarf sag, but with all the different info on the web, i cant tell.

Do you guys think that it be either val or dwarf chain sword, that i could keep trimming them to keep them at 2" and the plants will be ok, so i could keep them in the forground? Maybe i woudl then put them on the other side of my tank not to mix the two for the moment. The only thing i dont know is the effect of triming on the val or dwarf chain sword to make them look like pic 1 which i think was really dwarf sags.


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

Your first pic is dwarf sag. I have the same plant in my tank. Your second pic looks exactly like juvie vallisneria. I haven't tried trimming dwarf sag, but trimming vals won't work. The whole leaf will die.


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## BillD (Jun 5, 2006)

solarz said:


> Are you referring to this?
> http://www.shrimptank.ca/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Pygmy-Chain-Sword-1.jpg
> 
> I don't have dwarf chain swords, but the OP's plants look exactly like the vals that I have in my tank.
> ...


Not referring to those. Similar growth habit but different plant. The dwarf chain swords look just like little vals. When i bought the originals at Menagerie, they had spade at the top. In the 3 years i have had them, they have never shown the spade at the top, so I assume they were propagated emmersed before I got them.







is a photo of the plants in question. When they get this crowded, they grow taller than when they have more room.


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