# Beginner Questions



## atvaholic (Oct 27, 2008)

Hi!

I suppose i'm classified as a beginner, I have had fish before with some success. I'm looking at starting again, and will consider myself to have enough information to be dangerous.

This is what I have:
20 Gallon aquarium w/ cover
Filter
Heater

I know thats a small aquarium, but for now, thats all I have and would like to start small. I would like some input on which fish to stock (the aquarium has been setup for days). I understand that I can not add several fish at once. I have kept the following fish before (not at the same time)

Columbian Tetra's (blue/green I think)
Surpae tetra's
Mollies
Platties
Guppys
Tiger Barbs
Zebra Danio's
Some small (electric?)yellow Cichlids (sp?)

Of all those, I liked the Barbs, and the Columbian Tetra's the best. I noticed the barbs were pretty aggressive. Ohh, and I really liked the yellow cicclids too.

Can someone recomend some starter fish? I really liked those ciclids, but don't know if I have enough room. I know with my tank, i'll be limited to about 5 - 6 2 inch fish. Can someone make other suggestions? Again, I am a bigginer but have had some experience.


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## twoheadedfish (May 10, 2008)

I'd stay away from the cichlids in the 20 if you want to keep other fish. i'm sorta guessing here but i think you could only keep a pair or three in a 20, which wouldn't leave room for much else. i might be wrong. Google's a hell of a thing - punch a fish name in there and you'll find tonnes of information. things to note - number of gallons per fish (ie, goldfish require something like 5-7 gallons per fish), pH and water temp preference.

You're right about the barbs. they're nippers. if you're going to keep them, avoid fish with showy or long tails. other barbs and minnows (like rasboras) would probably fair ok.

Most of the other fish on your list are good starter fish. platys and guppies are particularily hardy and often recommended for beginners.

Be sure you've cycled properly (you should see an increase in ammonia, nitrates, then nitrites, then all should drop off the map - that means you're ready to go). also, pick up a water tets kit (preferably liquid reagent over paper test strips) so you can regularily monitor your pH and ammonia levels.

oh, and welcome to the board!


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## atvaholic (Oct 27, 2008)

Thanks for the welcome! 

Yes, I did some googling of the electric yellows. They seem to want a minimum tank size of 25 gallons. Im not sure why...are they a dirty fish? I do have the test kit and added some water from a friends aquarium to help start things off. I do like barbs, but I also read that you should buy a school of six.. would those fit into my 20 Gallon? Oh, and i'm sorry for the questions, but I am also considering some plants.


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## twoheadedfish (May 10, 2008)

Question away. I'm guessin gfor the cichlids it's an issue with feces, the size of the fish itself, and it's temperment. If you've got a betta in a tiny 0.5 gallon bowl, there's a huge difference in it's behaviour and health if you move it to a 5g. it's the same concept with the electric yellows.

good call on getting water from a friend, that'll definitely speed things up. 

you could fit six tiger barbs in your tank. they prefer about 3-4 gallons per fish, more if you've got it. if you have a good filter (that's rated for a larger aquarium, say.) you could over stock a little. i've never kept barbs myself, so i don't know all that much about them, but i do know that with most barbs, minnows, and schoolilng fish, you will want six or more. they really shine in larger groups.

despite it's relative size to other aquariums that board members here keep, 20 gallons is quite a bit of space. just for reference, in my 20 i've got six cardinal tetras, six harlequin rasboras, five swordtails (three of which are immature), a platy, two khuli loaches, and one poor lonely cory . 

plants are a great idea. they make a tank much more natural looking, add to the biotope, help to get rid of ammonia, promote health in fish by easing stress, and are tonnes of fun to keep. if you picked up a "starter kit" tank, it probably came with a light that's around 15 watts (what might be called "low light", 0-2 watts per gallon) . you could easily grow italian val, any variety of crypt or fern, baccoppas, probably hygrophilia polysperma, and a bunch of others. you're pretty set.


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## atvaholic (Oct 27, 2008)

twoheadedfish said:


> Question away. I'm guessin gfor the cichlids it's an issue with feces, the size of the fish itself, and it's temperment. If you've got a betta in a tiny 0.5 gallon bowl, there's a huge difference in it's behaviour and health if you move it to a 5g. it's the same concept with the electric yellows.
> 
> good call on getting water from a friend, that'll definitely speed things up.
> 
> ...


Hmm thanks again. It's too bad. I was looking a few more cichlids, I seem to like them. Are there any I could consider for my tank? Or is the cichlid family just not for a small tank. My filter is rated at 20 - 30 gallons. It moves a fair bit of water around, so I think it is on the "bigger" end.

Hmm, I think i will get a few plants and see what happens. Do I need to leave a light on for them? The tank is near a window, but not in direct light.

TWOHEADED: What kind of a filter do you use to keep all those fish in a 20 Gallon tank?


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## sawman88 (Sep 29, 2008)

a 20G tank is a decent size tank. there are slot fo dwarf chiclds that feel very comfortable in a 20. also some of the smaller plecos a pair would fit nicely in there. the dwarf chiclds are pretty mellow you can keep some dithers in there with them. some rainbows and zebra danios are good for that i think. and depending on the type of plant you want it MIGHT be okay with very low light.. but most plants need alot of light. even low light plants need alot more light then just room light..  gl man


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## atvaholic (Oct 27, 2008)

Thanks Sawman. The tank is in my basement. There are two windows nearby, but the tank does not get direct light. Will a bulb help? Or do they need natural light. Thanks for the tip on the dwarf cichlids. I'm gonna google and see what i can find.


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## sawman88 (Sep 29, 2008)

no no you dont want to go natrual light. that could very easially turn your water super green like a pond. a bulb will help. hopefully its the canopy with the 2' florousant bulb. if it isnt i think those compact flouressant bulbs work well? i have never used one though


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## twoheadedfish (May 10, 2008)

atvaholic, can you post a pic of your set up so far?

i have a fluval 3+ running in my twenty, and it's pretty heavily planted, which helps.


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Welcome to the forum!

Well, first, you've been told about the cichlids. A lot of them can't be kept in small tanks because their eventual size severely limits the numbers you can keep, and they are best kept in harems of 1 or 32 males to several females. You can do fine and keep one or two 4 inch fish in a 20g tank, but you really can't keep 9 or 10 in there.

If you want cichlids, check out shell dwellers. They are small (AFAIK).

And as for the barbs and the colombian tetras, IME, the tetras are fin nippers and will kill many other slower fish. I had a killer colombian tetra that killed all bu t the gouramis and bushynose plecos in the same tank as it.

Also, a filter rated for a 20 -30 g tank is good for a much smaller tank IME. I'm all about over filtering. I'd get a filter rated at the minimum twice the volume of your tank.

If you want a good mix from the species you listed, get 6 zebra danios as they are top swimmers, a few guppies as the are all over, and 5 serpae tetras, as they tend to be less active.

If you're able to, get some plants. Get a flourescent fixture, and but some anubias plants. They're pretty damn hardy and tough to kill, and your fish will love the fact that they have a real plant in the tank.

Welcome back to the hobby too!


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## atvaholic (Oct 27, 2008)

Hello, Trying to upload the images. The first is the tank, and the second is the plant I'm trying not to kill. I hope these photo's are ok.


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## atvaholic (Oct 27, 2008)

Hi, just gt back from the petshop. Spoke with someone there that seemed knowledgable about cichlids. She said a few electric yellows would be OK in a 20 gallon, only to keep in mind they grow to be 3-4 inches and not to overstock. Says that sometimes if you stock only males they are not as aggressive. She also said that they are not as easy to keep as some of the other fish, require clean water. She mentioned something about adding salt for them, but its not needed if using a water conditioner

Is this a hit and miss kind of thing? Am I playing with fire? I really do like the cichlids and would rather get 3-4 smaller ones and leave it at that. suggestions?


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## Dennis (Jul 10, 2008)

atvaholic said:


> Hi, just gt back from the petshop. Spoke with someone there that seemed knowledgable about cichlids. She said a few electric yellows would be OK in a 20 gallon, only to keep in mind they grow to be 3-4 inches and not to overstock. Says that sometimes if you stock only males they are not as aggressive. She also said that they are not as easy to keep as some of the other fish, require clean water. She mentioned something about adding salt for them, but its not needed if using a water conditioner
> 
> Is this a hit and miss kind of thing? Am I playing with fire? I really do like the cichlids and would rather get 3-4 smaller ones and leave it at that. suggestions?


If you like the cichlids and don't mind having only a few of them, I used to keep a pair of Julidochromis ornatus ( http://www.gcca.net/fom/Julidochromis_ornatus.htm ) and a pair of Gold ocellatus ( http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/l_ocellatus ). in a 20 gallon. The tank looked amazing. I used crush coral rock for the substrate and a wall of lava rock. The ocellatus are an example of the shell dwellers someone (Ameekplek I think) mentioned earlier. The julie's can become quite aggressive when breeding. The ones I had where pretty good, but I had a friend with a african cichlid community in a 90 gallon and he had a pair of Julie Regani that got so aggressive when they had a brood that the rest of the community was sequestered to half the tank. It was like there was an imaginary line half way through the tank, and if any other fish crossed it, the male chased them off. It was entertaining to watch, but a little cruel to the other 15-16 fish crammed into half the tank.

However, if you wish to maintain a planted tank. I wouldn't recommend most cichlids. They can be quite hard on plants.

Anyway, welcome aboard!

Dennis


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## sawman88 (Sep 29, 2008)

i think bolovian rams. and alot of the Brichardi fish thrive in planted 20 gallon tanks. they are both very pretty fish


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## Dennis (Jul 10, 2008)

sawman88 said:


> i think bolovian rams. and alot of the Brichardi fish thrive in planted 20 gallon tanks. they are both very pretty fish


I had a trio of Lamp Brichardi in a 20 gallon at one point. Also amazing fish to watch and will spawn quite easily. I can't remember if I ever attempted to plant it or not though. I think by that time I had given up planting my cichlid tanks. As for the bolivians, I've only ever kept african (Tanganikan to be excact) cichlids, so I really wouldn't know.


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