# Total Shrimp newbie needs help...



## ruggles531 (Sep 3, 2010)

Hi guys, hoping you can assist me here.

I have a couple of tanks with various African cichlids which I have been enjoying for the past couple of years. I have an old 20 gallon tank I was looking to do something different with and thought I would try shrimp. After some online reading I decided that Red Cherry Shrimp would be the easiest to start with.

I set up my tank with "Black Shot" sand blasting sand. I had seen posts elsewhere that others have successfully used it with shrimp. I put in an old sponge filter I had used before and a heater, heating it to 26 degrees. 

I took some water out of my cichlid tank and began cycling the new tank with a mix of new water. I cycled the tank for approximately two weeks and added some plants that I purchased off a seller here. I then purchased 25 cherry shrimp from a seller here and put them in my tank. I slowly transferred a small cup of water from the tank into the shrimp bag over the course of a couple of hours. I then dumped the shrimp into the tank. Over the course of the next few days the shrimp all started to die. I completed a couple of water changes over the course of a week, but at this point, a few weeks later they are all dead.

I had been running pH tests before I put any shrimp in and the water tested at 7.5....those were the only tests I ran. Tonight I purchased some additional test kits and discovered the following. The pH is now closer to 8.0, the kh is 72ppm, NO3 is 5ppm and the GH is very high! The reason I say the GH is very high is the test I used maxes out at adding 12 drops to the test tube and the water hadn't changed colour even after all that. I then ran a test on the tap water I have been using. I live in Oshawa and run my water through a Rainfresh Chloromine filter, and add Prime water conditioner. When I tested the water coming out of the filter (no Prime) I still show 8.0 pH, but the GH drops to 8. 

I assume that the pH is too high for these guys and the GH as well. I know the CRS how to guide mentions using reverse osmosis water from the grocery store. If I use that water will it solve my problems? Should I be adding something else to my tank to change the levels?

Your assistance would be appreciated. I really find these guys interesting to watch and would love to be able to take part in this part of the hobby.

Thanks!


----------



## parrot5 (Jan 6, 2007)

My RCS seems to do better (read: stops disappearing) in hard water. My house has soft water, and before I used Cuttle bone to increase the hardness, they weren't doing so well. What you read in raising CRS could be different.

pH is about 7 btw.

I find RCS pretty easy to acclimate. I usually only wait 15 minutes to let the temperature equalize, then starts pouring in tank water, and after another 15 or so I'll dump them all in the tank.


----------



## splur (May 11, 2011)

26? I don't think you even need a heater for RCS.


----------



## ruggles531 (Sep 3, 2010)

splur said:


> 26? I don't think you even need a heater for RCS.


The guy I bought the shrimp from said he kept them at that temperature, so I was trying to keep things similar to him...

What's the recommended temperature?


----------



## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

Let's get something clear first: are you keeping Cherry shrimps (RCS) or Crystal shrimps (CRS)?

If you are keeping cherries and they're dying, then something is wrong with your tank as RCS are very hardy. 

1- Have you fully cycled your tank? (ammonia and nitrites should both be 0)

2- Have you ever put any kind of copper based medication into this tank? Shrimps are very sensitive to copper.


----------



## laurahmm (Apr 1, 2010)

Have you treated your cichlid tank in the past and not put in new carbon to remove the meds? Some meds can kill shrimp. I wouldnt use a heater at all. Cherry shrimp are pretty forgiving about ph, gh etc in my experience. Maybe the tank wasnt fully cycled when you first put them in. Or maybe you didnt acclimitize them slowly enough. I use the drip method. Could be any of those reasons. Goodluck


----------



## Symplicity (Oct 14, 2011)

I'm on my phone but a quick google search on RCS parameters will tell you everything.

1. Drip acclimate, the way you mention is fairly useless

2. Once parameters match, you need to deal with stress from predators.

I think it's just your parameters lol


----------



## splur (May 11, 2011)

Symplicity said:


> I'm on my phone but a quick google search on RCS parameters will tell you everything.
> 
> 1. Drip acclimate, the way you mention is fairly useless
> 
> ...


You wouldn't need to drip acclimatize RCS, they're super hardy. Something is seriously wrong with the tank if they all die.


----------



## RONY11 (Jan 6, 2011)

I keep Rilis now but in the past bred red cherry shrimps in tap water of Tel Aviv. 
TDS above 800 PPM PH 8.2-8.4 GH 18-20 KH 12-14 
So your water parameters should not kill your shrimps

Like others before me I think may be the problem medications may have entered your shrimps tanks from the water transffered from another tank. Copper is a culprit in causing shrimp deaths, many disease medicines for fish contain copper, even fertilizers have a certain percentage of copper there whenever hobbyists use to fertilizer their tanks they use half the dosage coz shrimps are sensitive.

Your Nitrite and Ammonia have to be 0 before adding shrimps, Red cherries are quite hardy so I dont think your accimilation had to be the reason for their deaths. Heater doesn;'t seem to be the problem 26 degrees is good for Cherries. In your place I would not add any shrimps now just continue cycling for 2 weeks add activated carbon in your filter and keep changing water. Before bringing in new shrimps test the water for Ammonia and Nitrite

Another tip try to avoid putting hands in your tanks coz even after washing hands coz soap residue may remain on our hands, this will destroy your tank.

I bought a telescopic net which can be extended so I get very deep into my tank without putting my hands inside. My tank is 45 cms in height.


----------



## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

1) Any ph over 8 is not a good thing. Even though RCS is very misgiving, but I'd say fill 1/2 the tank with RO water. That way, you can rule out ph being the issue.

2) Med as mention by various members, can be the issue. Especially copper based algae killing or Ick meds. You really have to bleach the entire tank and use new media. The substrate are pretty much toasted as well.

3) When changing water, run your tap for 1 minutes before using the water. This is just in case your copper pipe is the issue. But if you use RO, that won't be an issue.

4) Sand is not a good medium for shrimp. Even if some manage to survive. Shrimp likes rocky substrate that can grow algae or bacteria slim.

5) Does your tank have a strong current? That's another bad thing.

6) Do you fertilize your tank? That is an issue as well.

In most cases, drip aclimatization isn't necessary for RCS. But in your case; where the water environment is so different, drip acclimatization would have been the right thing to do.

*Never pay again for live sex! | Hot girls doing naughty stuff for free! | Chat for free!*


----------



## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

Zebrapl3co said:


> 4) Sand is not a good medium for shrimp. Even if some manage to survive. Shrimp likes rocky substrate that can grow algae or bacteria slim.


Hmmm... I've always thought that sand would be a better substrate for shrimp. I've kept RCS in colored gravel, fluorite black, and tahitian moon sand. I haven't seen any difference in health for the shrimps. However, the shrimps do seem to have an easier time picking food and moving around on a sand substrate.


----------



## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

If 25 cherries died in a few days in the tank, I don't believe it's the PH/GH/KH/TDS. 

I can think of three things,

1. If any med containing high concentration of copper was used in that tank, it could mean months before the tank can be used for shrimp. That could be the reason. Only way to find out is to get a copper test kit to be sure. If you have owned the tanks since new or for a few years than think back what you have used and check what's in it.

2. Another possibility is nitrite. Nitrite is much more toxic than ammonia and nitrate for shrimp, even in low concentration. If any bad parameter can kill cherries that fast I would think it's nitrite. In my experience, nitrite spike in cycling process normally happens in about 2 weeks into cycling, and that's about the time you introduce the shrimps the the tank. 

3. Very likely but a possibility, the shrimps were not healthy to start with and came with disease or bacteria infection. Since you picked them up from a local hobbyist I don't think this is the cause.


----------



## splur (May 11, 2011)

Could the blasting sand contain some metals? coldmantis posted in another thread how his black blasting sand was actually copper slags lol.


----------



## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

On the topic of the substrate though, I think RCS are very hardy to take any parameter, but I'd still try to find something that's at least inert in terms of PH/GH/KH. 

PH of 8 is fine with RCS but it would be easier to breed them with a bit lower like 7.6 to 7.8, but 8 isn't too bad.

GH of 12+ is a concern, I think 12 is okay but about the limit. They won't die in a few days in super high GH, they will likely die in a few molt because high GH makes their shell too hard to break out and they'll die half way molting. If you don't see shrimps dying with "open chest", it is okay.

I would definitely take two large cups or containers about 1L, both filled with your aged tap water, and fill 1/3 of the sand you use in your shrimp tank in one of the cup. After a day, test the PH/GH/KH in both containers to see if the sand you use increase the parameters. A little is fine, too much you'll have problems. How much is safe? No one can tell you that, that's why it's better to get something close to the suggested parameters to be safe.


----------



## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

splur said:


> Could the blasting sand contain some metals? coldmantis posted in another thread how his black blasting sand was actually copper slags lol.


that would explain everything and would've saved my typing


----------



## ruggles531 (Sep 3, 2010)

Thanks for all of the suggestions guys...lots of information there.

I haven't put any medication into the water. I used it for a few months a year ago as a grow out tank for my cichlids, but never used any chemicals other than Prime in it. It's been sitting on a shelf since then and I rinsed it with tap water before using it for the shrimp.

The breeder of the shrimp seems like a good guy, I can't imagine there was a problem with the stock.

I will take Randy's suggestion and try to fill two containers with water, using sand with one. Maybe it is the sand that's causing my problems. I'll test this out and report back my findings.

In terms of the filter, I'm just using a sponge filter with air stone inside. Would I be better off using a HOB filter with some carbon to clean the water?


----------



## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

solarz said:


> Hmmm... I've always thought that sand would be a better substrate for shrimp. I've kept RCS in colored gravel, fluorite black, and tahitian moon sand. I haven't seen any difference in health for the shrimps. However, the shrimps do seem to have an easier time picking food and moving around on a sand substrate.


I am not sure of the science behind it. But all my tanks with sand whether black or white, have a depopulating shrimp evironment. I have had over the years around 9 tanks with sand bottom. I can start with 10 or 15 shrimps and they'll breed. In 1/2 a year, it would look like the tank will bloom and take off. But that never happens, it'll just fizzle and slowly depopulate until there is a only a few straddlers. I have a much better success with a barebottom, but it's a bit on the high maintenance side. So you have to watch what you're doing all the time. You can't just leave them and think everything is going to be OK. As for gravels, these I like because I can just add the shrimp in, and don't have to care for a few months and they grow on their own. But obviously, being lower maintenace, they are much slower in population growth.

*Never pay again for live sex! | Hot girls doing naughty stuff for free! | Chat for free!*


----------



## ruggles531 (Sep 3, 2010)

Hmmm...just found this on a web site referring to the sand I used:

_"The Black Shot #20 is a non silica blend of water quenched coal and copper slag which makes for an excellent sandblast abrasive with superior cleaning capabilities."_

I'm sure I read on one of the aquarium sites that someone had successfully used it in a shrimp tank.

I assume this sand is my problem then?


----------



## ruggles531 (Sep 3, 2010)

I believe this was the posting I originally saw and decided to save some money and use the black shot:

http://www.gtaaquaria.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14730&highlight="black+shot"&page=3


----------



## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

Unless you get a copper testing kit, there's no way to know if your substrate is really leeching copper.


----------



## ruggles531 (Sep 3, 2010)

Thought I would post an update on this.

I put some of my tap water (run through Rainfresh chloromine filter) into a bucket last night (let's call it Bucket1). At the same time I scooped some of the Black Shot sand I have in my shrimp tank in another bucket (Bucket2) and added a similar amount of water (also through the Rainfresh filter).

I did some testing tonight and found the following:

Bucket1 - ph=8, GH=9, kh=35ppm, N03=0

Bucket2 - ph=8, GH=9, kh=89ppm, N03=2.5

From this test it appears the sand isn't having much of an effect on things, other than kh and N03 going up.

I took a closer look at the bag of sand I purchased and it's actually labelled "Black Shot II" and states on the bag it is made of nickel slag. There is no mention of copper slag. I am wondering if the original Black Shot was made with copper slag and version 2 is made of nickel.

As a note, when I went to scoop some sand from the tank last night I found two shrimps are still alive and were hiding behind the filter.

Should I buy a copper test to see if the sand is in fact adding copper to the parameters? Is it my source water that's causing the problem?


----------



## coldmantis (Apr 5, 2010)

ruggles531 said:


> Thought I would post an update on this.
> 
> I put some of my tap water (run through Rainfresh chloromine filter) into a bucket last night (let's call it Bucket1). At the same time I scooped some of the Black Shot sand I have in my shrimp tank in another bucket (Bucket2) and added a similar amount of water (also through the Rainfresh filter).
> 
> ...


there is an easier way to determine if it's copper slag or not, get some snails lots of them dump them in your tank. if they start dying one by one it's copper slag. Snails are hard to kill period unless you have black blasting sand made with copper slag......


----------



## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

Nickel isn't good for shrimp either.


----------



## getochkn (Jul 10, 2011)

Get a seachem copper test kit and test for copper, easier way to know if it's a copper issue. $20 at big al's, very accurate.


----------



## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

If that's the case, then switch out the sand substrate. It's not a good medium anyway.

On a side note, damn, I have about 3 bags of black sand I'd want to use on my pleco tanks. This is really crappy. Copper or nickle for that matter is bad for baby plecos.

*Never pay again for live sex! | Hot girls doing naughty stuff for free! | Chat for free!*


----------



## ruggles531 (Sep 3, 2010)

Looks like a trip to Big Al's is in my future...

I will pick up a copper test, as I just need to know at this point. Does BA carry any shrimp friendly substrate? I looked on their online store but don't see ADA or Netlea. What would people recommend?

Thanks...


----------



## getochkn (Jul 10, 2011)

ruggles531 said:


> Looks like a trip to Big Al's is in my future...
> 
> I will pick up a copper test, as I just need to know at this point. Does BA carry any shrimp friendly substrate? I looked on their online store but don't see ADA or Netlea. What would people recommend?
> 
> Thanks...


AI is about the only place to get ADA or Netlea. BA's only has Fluval sometimes, which is meh, it lost it's buffering way too soon for me. For cherries though, you don't need any fancy substrate, plain black inert gravel will work. That all I used for my PFR tank


----------



## splur (May 11, 2011)

If you're thinking of sticking with RCS and not getting into any fancier shrimps, then anything that has smaller granules, like fluorite is fine. The black will make their colours come out more.

If you're considering fancier shrimp, I suggest ADA although I've heard great things about netlea.


----------



## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

Funny thing about you mentioning Netlea. I was complaining that it reduced my PH from tap 7.8 to 5.3-5.7. I used a bag in a 20G Long cycling for 2 months, never got PH over 5.8.

Then, on Monday, I moved the Netlea tank to my basement. So in the process I moved the netlea from the 20G to 2 x 16G (the two 16G combined have about the same floor space as one 20G). Refilled with tap, and after two days, when I checked last night, the PH was 6.7 in one tank and 7.1 in the other. And the same tap water was used to fill that original 20G in the basement tested of PH8.2. Then I told myself it hasn't been a very good day for shrimping and decided to leave it. I don't think Netlea lost its buffering in 2 months with less than 100G processed, the temperature in those 2x 16G tanks had been 10 - 15 C for that 2 days, so maybe that's why, I'll re-test today to see if PH gets down further. Maybe it just takes longer in low temperature.


----------



## ruggles531 (Sep 3, 2010)

OK guys...finally got to BA's yesterday and purchased a copper test kit. I just tested my shrimp take water now and it is showing copper levels at......0 ppm!

So.......not sure what to do now. The ph is still hovering around 8.0 but I believe the other levels seem OK.

Someone mentioned the ammonia levels spike around 2 weeks after setting up a tank. That was right around the time I added the shrimp to the tank. Is that possibly the issue I ran into?

I'm noticing now the plants I added around the same time frame are starting to die off. Once of the guys at BA's said I shouldn't put plants in sand as it chokes them off. He recommended I use gravel or Fluval substrate.

So, should I just get rid of the sand, even though it doesn't seem to be adding copper to the tank?


----------



## Symplicity (Oct 14, 2011)

Remove your carbon filter media! Use netlea or ada to buffer ph for cryatals.


----------



## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

As splur said, if you're keeping cherries and other Neos then PH 8.0 is okay. MY PFR tank has PH 7.8+ and they do just fine. 

I was the one made the comment about 2 weeks NO2 spike. The 40G breeder tank I set up beginning of the month is just starting to have the NO2 spike, the proves my theory again. That's also the theory of kids keeping goldfish in uncycled tank would see goldfish die after a week or two, and not right away. 

If you don't have NH3 and NO2 issue anymore I believe you tank is cycled and should be safe now. I'd still be concerned if heavy metal is present in the tank but changing substrate now pretty much means another cycling process is required. It's a tough choice to make.

What plants did you put in there? I suggest any type of moss, floaters, or rootless plants like hornwort that grows fast (good NO3 absorber).


----------



## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

ruggles531 said:


> OK guys...finally got to BA's yesterday and purchased a copper test kit. I just tested my shrimp take water now and it is showing copper levels at......0 ppm!
> 
> So.......not sure what to do now. The ph is still hovering around 8.0 but I believe the other levels seem OK.
> 
> ...


As a general rule, the staff at BA don't know what they're talking about. Plants will grow just fine in sand, better even than plain gravel. If you want to know more about growing plants, that's a huge topic in its own.

Since you have no copper leeching into the water, your substrate should be fine for use. Most likely your problem was that you tank was uncycled. You might also have more surviving shrimps than you thought, as they like to hide.


----------



## ruggles531 (Sep 3, 2010)

I bought the following plants from a seller on this site:


Rotala Rotundifolia
Rotala Nanjenshan
Sunset Hygrophila
Dwarf hair grass

I was trying to get some moss but he was all out when I went.

As long as people think the sand is OK for plants I may just leave it in there. The filter I have in place is a simple sponge filter with air pump. There is currently no carbon in the tank.


----------



## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

I know nothing about plants. Most people don't put demanding plants (not sure if what you got are in this category) in shrimp tanks because they don't want to have to do something just for the plants to thrive but has (potentially or arguably) bad effects on shrimps such as ferts and CO2 or even super high light. That's why moss is the popular choice -- relatively low maintenance, not very demanding in ferts and light, and good NO3 absorber.


----------



## splur (May 11, 2011)

Considering on paper, there is nothing wrong with your tank, can you take a picture of your whole set-up and post it? Sometimes it helps diagnose your problems.


----------



## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

ruggles531 said:


> I bought the following plants from a seller on this site:
> 
> 
> Rotala Rotundifolia
> ...


Start a new thread if you want help with plants. You will need to provide information on your lighting, what problems you are experiencing specifically, and whether you use any fertilizers.

Right now, it sounds to me that you don't have any problem. Your shrimps died off because your tank hadn't finished cycling. (BTW, it's useless to use "old water" to cycle a tank: the water column contains little to no nitrifying bacteria.) The survivors should be doing fine right now. If you continue to experience die offs, then there would be a problem.


----------



## bettaforu (Sep 6, 2009)

ive had cherry shrimps live inside a dirty filter, in a bucket of dirty water taken from a tank I was emptying and missed a few shrimpies stuck in some plant moss (escapees are the worst)  and inside a piece of driftwood sitting in a small amount of water to keep it waterlogged for easy use in a new tank setup for over a month! 

These shrimps can basically live almost anywhere, with only a few inchs of water, clean or otherwise.....if you are having them die off you have something very wrong in your tank!


----------



## ruggles531 (Sep 3, 2010)

OK...managed to pick up an ammonia kit just to be extra sure. Tested ammonia levels and it is showing 0ppm. At this point I guess the tank is OK and I must have had an initial spike right when I introduced the cherrys.

I assume this explains the problems with the plants as they were introduced around the same time. The plants I purchased were recommended to be rather hardy and handle low light, etc.

Here is a pic of the tank currently. I know it looks like crap right now...









The Sunset Hygrophila seems to be the only plant surviving at this point. I guess I will plan to do another water change, introduce some more plants, give them a few weeks to establish themselves and then add some more cherries.

Does this sound like a good course of action?

Also, in terms of the sponge filter. I have it connected to a Rena Air 200 pump. I assume that should be enough for this tank (20 gallon)? When I was at BA's on the weekend I noticed their sponge filters had massive amounts of bubbles coming out of them. Just wondered whether the one I have is enough.


----------



## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

A picture is worth a thousand words... finally get to see your tank ;-)

I'm cheap on power consumption but one air pump driven sponge filter seems underpowered for a 20G if you intent to get any number of shrimps. Is it not possible to add a HOB at least?


----------



## getochkn (Jul 10, 2011)

Your pump should be having a stream of bubbles pouring out of it and I don't see that in the pic. The 200 should be enough for 1 sponge filter, something doesn't seem right on it. Are you using a check valve, is it hooked up correct? Do you have an air adjuster?


----------



## splur (May 11, 2011)

Er, yeah I hope it's because you turned down the air pump to take the picture.... otherwise that might be your problem.


----------



## Symplicity (Oct 14, 2011)

I recommend you add a canister filter filled with 90% biomedia and wait afew months for bacteria to build. 

I cant imagine CRS living in such biofiltration.


----------



## ruggles531 (Sep 3, 2010)

I did have a check valve installed (the correct way) but noticed it does seem to impede the air flow quite a bit. Removed it but didn't notice a huge difference in flow. Had an old AquaClear HOB filter so I installed it and have it running now. Only reason I hadn't used it previously was the tank is in my office and I wanted to try to keep it quiet. Oh well, a functional tank is more important.

I'll leave the new filter running for a few days and test the parameters again and see how she looks...


----------



## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

ruggles531 said:


> I did have a check valve installed (the correct way) but noticed it does seem to impede the air flow quite a bit. Removed it but didn't notice a huge difference in flow. Had an old AquaClear HOB filter so I installed it and have it running now. Only reason I hadn't used it previously was the tank is in my office and I wanted to try to keep it quiet. Oh well, a functional tank is more important.
> 
> I'll leave the new filter running for a few days and test the parameters again and see how she looks...


If your air pump was more quiet than an HOB, then it definitely wasn't working right, lol.


----------



## splur (May 11, 2011)

solarz said:


> If your air pump was more quiet than an HOB, then it definitely wasn't working right, lol.


LOL! New definition of under-filtering.


----------



## ruggles531 (Sep 3, 2010)

OK...so I'm back again and in need of more advice.

After my last post back in May I purchased some more plants for the tank (Java Fern, Windelov, Cabomba and Java Moss). I got the plants settled in the tank and left things alone for a couple of more weeks.

I did a couple of water changes and the last one I made was 75% filtered tap water and 25% RO water from Wal-Mart. I tested the water parameters and had the following (ph=7.5, NO3=5, NH3=0, KH=3, GH=12, CU=0).

I figured all was good with my levels and purchase 20 more Red Cherries from a seller online. I used the drip method to acclimitize them to the water over a 3 hour time period. I then scooped them out and put them in the tank. They seemed pretty lively the first day. Second day a bit less...third day less still, and a few dead ones. After roughly 8 days they were ALL dead...again!!

I wasn't sure what caused this to happen again...everything looked good to me for RCS...the ph was a bit high and GH, but I thought they would work for this type of shrimp as they are hardier than some other shrimp.

I also have a couple of fish tanks. Around this time a seller on GTAA was trying to get rid of some cichlid fry and I figured that I couldn't seem to keep shrimp alive, but I know how to keep fish alive. I did a 25% water change in the tank, adding a mix of filtered tap and RO water. I checked the levels again and they were pretty much the same as before. I tested my two other fish tanks as a comparison and they have higher ph and NH3 levels, but everything else was similar. I purchased 4 fry from the seller and introduced them to the 20 gallon "death" tank 

What would you know, right around day 7 I came home to find three of the fry dead. I quickly scooped the lone survivor out and put him in my main 135 gallon tank. He seems to be doing OK in that tank, roughly 1.5 weeks later.

Over this entire time period some of the plants have died off as well. The plants which are left are starting to get black leaves on them.

So, what is wrong with my small tank? All I can think of doing is draining it and starting all over again. At the same time, without really knowing what is causing my problems I'm unsure what to change when I do start over. As mentioned before, I am new to planted tanks and shrimp. The 20 gallon I have currently has two of the CFL 13 watt bulbs installed. The lights are on from 4PM - 11PM every day. Is that too much light for this tank? The tank is physically located in my basement so heat hasn't really been an issue so far this summer.

Anyways, I'm sure some of you guys can point me in the right direction. Your guidance would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

I would hate to read all 5 pages again, what is the substrate you use? Is this an used tank from someone (doubtful history of dosing) ? I would tear it down, bleach it, wash it, "prime" it, leave it dry for a week, say a good prayer and start again. If cichlids can't survive, you have little chance for any shrimps.

Parameter look fine, but I can't understand why your GH is 12 when you already mix RO in tap. GTA water should have GH around 8. But even then, that shouldn't kill fish, shrimp, and plants.

I mean, even if I shut off the filter in my fire red tank, I am sure they won't die in a few days. I mean, some shrimps are kept in a small bag in transport for 5 days and they can survive.


----------



## Symplicity (Oct 14, 2011)

traces of copper maybe?


----------



## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

Wow, that's tough man. I think there must be some kind of contaminant either in the substrate or on the tank glass itself. Copper should not affect fish.


----------



## matti2uude (Jan 10, 2009)

You say you use filtered tap water. What are you using to filter it?


----------



## ruggles531 (Sep 3, 2010)

The substrate I started with is called Black Shot II and is black sandblasting sand. I checked the packaging but it doesn't mention it contains copper. To be sure I purchased a copper test kit, but it still comes back showing zero.

For my fish tanks I have been using tap water filtered through a Rainfresh chloromine filter. That is the same water I started using for the shrimp tank, and recently started adding in a small mix of RO water.

So is the general consensus to scrap and start all over again (after thoroughly cleaning the tank)?

If so, I'm thinking the Black Shot needs to go. I know this is a YMMV type question, but what substrate is currently recommended (keeping in mind I seem to have a fairly high ph)?

Thanks for the in put guys.


----------



## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

If you're keeping cherry shrimps then substrate doesn't really matter. I keep my PFRs (higher grade of cherry) in tap water parameters and they are just fine.

If you want to get into bee shrimps like CRS, then you definitely want to invest in substrate. Netlea/Lambo from AI is good in lowering PH (it lowers my GTA tap from 7.8 to 5.3 initially). Or if you can find ADA then that's also a very good choice.

If I'm to guess, I say your problem is due to the sand you're using. Get rid of it. If you are in Markham, I have some blue stones you can have for free. It should do for a 10G or less. I used it for my PFRs and they bred quite well in there. I've moved them out so I don't need these blue stones anymore. I got them for free from Frank (@Kim's) when he was closing his store. You can see it in the background of this pic,


----------



## matti2uude (Jan 10, 2009)

I agree most likely the problem is the black shot.


----------

