# Using Flourish with Flourish Excel.



## destructo

As I am coming down to the last bit of my Kent's Plant Pro bottle I was looking at getting more fertilizer for my plants. 

I am happy with Kents, but I am wondering if using Flourish would be better as its from the same company as Flourish Excel. 

Any thoughts?


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## Darkblade48

Are you looking for a trace mix only? If so, Flourish is a reasonable trace mix. 

However, I am a big proponent of dry fertilizers, as they are much more economical and last much longer.


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## destructo

Darkblade48 said:


> Are you looking for a trace mix only? If so, Flourish is a reasonable trace mix.
> 
> However, I am a big proponent of dry fertilizers, as they are much more economical and last much longer.


Just looking for a good overall fert, Kents is good and can't say I have any problems but because Seachem makes both Flourish and Flourish Excel, figured it would be a good idea to stick to the same brand.


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## Mr Fishies

Darkblade48 said:


> I am a big proponent of dry fertilizers, as _*they are much more economical and last much longer.*_


+1. ie: $6 of dry (traces) will run a 75G tank, dosed 3x a week well over a year...I'll let you know when I run out.

In terms of brands...it's kind if like milk...not really any significant difference between brands.


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## george

Darkblade, can you name a specific product?


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## Plaid

What Darkblade's getting at is that you don't need a brand in a bottle, you should buy a trace elements mix, usually from a hydroponics store. I use the trace mix from "Hydrotech Hydroponics", which has a store in Scarborough. I have no complaints regarding it's quality.
Depending on your tank size, you want to add a small amount of powder on a regular basis. I'm sure someone here can help you calculate the amount you need for your tank size, I just use the EI method of dosing.
The trace mix will be a brown-orange powder, a lot like the stuff people put on New York Fries.

Good luck,
Wes


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## Darkblade48

Plaid said:


> What Darkblade's getting at is that you don't need a brand in a bottle, you should buy a trace elements mix, usually from a hydroponics store. I use the trace mix from "Hydrotech Hydroponics", which has a store in Scarborough. I have no complaints regarding it's quality.


+1.



Plaid said:


> Depending on your tank size, you want to add a small amount of powder on a regular basis. I'm sure someone here can help you calculate the amount you need for your tank size, I just use the EI method of dosing.


Again, +1.



Plaid said:


> The trace mix will be a brown-orange powder, a lot like the stuff people put on New York Fries.


I've never eaten New York Fries before, but now I don't want to...


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## arc

> What Darkblade's getting at is that you don't need a brand in a bottle, you should buy a trace elements mix, usually from a hydroponics store. I use the trace mix from "Hydrotech Hydroponics", which has a store in Scarborough. I have no complaints regarding it's quality.
> Depending on your tank size, you want to add a small amount of powder on a regular basis. I'm sure someone here can help you calculate the amount you need for your tank size, I just use the EI method of dosing.


Hey Wes, do you have shrimp in your tank? I looked up the trace mix from that store and it has * Copper 0.1% Thinking of getting this but not sure about the copper

Thanks


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## Darkblade48

arc said:


> Hey Wes, do you have shrimp in your tank? I looked up the trace mix from that store and it has * Copper 0.1% Thinking of getting this but not sure about the copper


I have shrimp in my tank and dose the trace mix with no adverse effects.

You have to remember that both plants and invertebrates require copper, but only in trace amounts. It is the dose that makes the poison.


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## arc

> I have shrimp in my tank and dose the trace mix with no adverse effects.


Thats good to hear. Just wondering what other dry fertilizers is everyone using? I'm tempted to get the complete six pack set and split it with a friend as its way too much for me. Its only 7 dollars more than seachem Flourish and it'll last a hell of a long time.

http://www.hydrotechhydroponics.com...zers/Six-Pack-Complete-Small/flypage.tpl.html

Has anyone made a mixture of dry Frets and put it in water to dose with? I can see a lot of problems with getting the right formula but would be convenient


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## Mr Fishies

arc said:


> Has anyone made a mixture of dry Frets and put it in water to dose with? I can see a lot of problems with getting the right formula but would be convenient


Depending on the fertilization "regime" you choose, you don't need all 6 for dosing your tank. You need as few as 2, probably 3: KNO3, KH2PO4 and Trace (CSM+B).

If you have a tank under 75G, a container of each is a year+ supply...you'll run out of Trace and KNO3 first - but 1 container of KH2PO4 may be a 5-6 year or more supply (not kidding).

You can pre mix these in distilled water with no problems - I do every few months. I add 10ml of Excel to keep things from growing in the solutions. You cannot mix all 3 together though - they will explode.  Kidding! The iron in the trace mix reacts and precipitates if mixed with KH2PO4 and it's no good to your plants.

You can use the Fertilator on APC to help with calculations or if you're stumped open a thread with your tank specs and goals...someone will help.


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## Darkblade48

For fertilization regimes, I would recommend you take a look at EI dosing, as Tom Barr has already figured out the correct dosing rates for various tank sizes.

Finally, check out the Planted Tank sticky that is part of these forums for more information on fertilization, and links to more information on the EI regimen and PPS-Pro regimen.


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## arc

Wow, amazing information. Thanks everyone.

destructo, I think I hijacked your thread but heres the info/analysis I've done so far.

1 bottle of seachem flourish is $13 
-500ml
-5ml doses 60gal (from website) http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Flourish.html
The links shows whats in it.

I've got 29+20+10 gal, twice a week. This will last me (10mlX52weeks=520ml) just under one year.

With the dry trace fertilizers I get 100grams for $6
(using the fertilator from aquaticplantcentral and the recommended ppm from it) see pic. Making a 500ml bottle mixture by adding 25 grams into 500 ml of distilled water.

So I need about 6 ml of this mixture per week for all my tanks which will last years with the amount bought.

I need KNO3 as well since my nitrates are always 0 (Needed the iron because the new leaves are coming out yellow).
So for the cost of one bottle of Flourish I will get years of supply 

But it really isn't about the money as its only an extra $40 over 2-3 years. With the dry fertilizers I can control the dose levels. I don't have CO2 in some tanks so I'll be under dosing and see what happens.

Anyone want to double check my math here? I'm hoping there aren't too many mistakes

Cheers


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## Jsu

Plaid said:


> The trace mix will be a brown-orange powder, a lot like the stuff people put on New York Fries.
> Wes


So i just brought a tub of trace mix at a aquaponic store. How do i incorporate the trace mix into my 10 gal aquarium? Do i mix it with water then pour it in or just sprinkle it on top. also what is the amount need to add.


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## Russgro

There are a couple formulas PPS Pro & Classic, EI by Tom Barr, also dry dosing. Just check around for dosing regimes and do what suites you best. This was also pointed out above by darkblade I didn't realize

http://sites.google.com/site/aquaticplantfertilizer/


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## arc

> I add 10ml of Excel to keep things from growing in the solutions


Mr Fishies, can you tell me how this works?


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## Mr Fishies

arc said:


> Mr Fishies, can you tell me how this works?


I assume you are asking how it keeps things from growing and not how to measure 10ml? 

Excel is very closely related or based on (according to what I've read on other forums and Wikipedia) to Glutaraldehyde, which is used in labs and medical facilities as a preservative and disinfectant. It's "designed" to kill stuff - people use this trait when they spot treat algae or overdose their tanks.

To be honest, I read it on Tom Barr's website. I seem to recall the recommendation was about 20ml Excel/1000ml or so. I add 10ml to ~400ml. Some people use HCl in their mixes which I don't really want to go buying and keeping around the house just for DIY fertilizers. Excel is a bit safer and more readily available and has a use beyond adding a few drops to fertilizer a few times a year.


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## arc

Makes sense.

I was afraid it would grow things as its a substitute for co2, so fertilizers+co2+ a bit of light and you would get algae in the bottle.

Thanks for the correcting my fears though, I'll be adding excel to help with it when I make the mixture


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