# Sticky  Crystal Red Shrimp 201



## CrystalMethShrimp

*Introduction* (skip to chapter 1)

Wednesday morning and I'm still sick. This is what happens when you focus on the forcast highs and ignore the lows. So after a long weekend of parties and bbqs in nothing but a T and shorts, I'm wishing I was in bed rather then at work. Oh well, might as well make the best of it. I'm comfortable right now, sitting at my desk with a cup of hot korean grapefruit tea typing this long overdue tutorial. A mellow, drowsy, numbing kinda comfort.

I've been contemplating how to approach this tutorial and what I can share with everyone. I've come to a simple fact. My primary goal is to just keep everything transparently simple and comprehensible. The more information there is out there the more complex something simple can become. I will try my best to inform you what method I use for a specific purpose and explain to you the reasoning and basic grade 5 science behind it. That is all. Simple enough I hope. Keep in mind from time to time I might not be perfectly accurate, as this is also a learning experience for me. That is why I hope the senior hobbyists on this forum will contribute and help create a welcoming learning environment for all members. If you guys have any topics you'd like me to cover just PM me.

The first few chapters will focus on water. It regulates many of the crs behavior such as molting, metabolism, breeding, ect. This is the most crucial element in keeping crs so topics such as water parameters, temp/O2, bacteria, filtration, and maintenance will all be covered. 
Let's begin.

*Chapter 1*
The Silent "KH"iller
My only tank currently is a 30 gal long crs tank. 
Breeding rate is high and the shrimps are always grazing and swimming about. ALWAYS. That was until last week. I noticed that about 50% of my crs were still, and partially grazing. Then in the corner of the tank one of my teenage crs had died. Something was wrong. I started the usual process of elimination. This way you can narrow down what problem your tank is having. It usually starts with a recollection of what I fed them during the past few days. I've learned from many breeders that feeding too much meat products leads to molting problems (Mosura excel, shirakiku food/special, blood worms, hnb crab bites, are all meaty foods with high amount of proteins, which can trigger early molts) I've cut down to feeding meat based food twice per week and spinach the rest of the time (If you are having random crs die offs and your water params are perfect I highly suggest you try this) I recalled that I had not fed much meat during the past few days nor had I introduced any new foods. Check. Nothing new had been added to the tank. Check.

- Temp 23C. 
- Ammonia 0ppm. 
- No2/3 0ppm. 
- PH 6.6. 
- TDS 144ppm 
- gH 5
- kH 0

kh was 0 (it should have been around 2). Which means you can't get an accurate ph reading and it can swing freely. (Kh is a buffer which keeps the ph steady) thinking back I recall that I set the tank up with R/O water which is also what I top it up with. It was something I had always assumed would be there. The one param I never bothered testing but it was such an important one.

So with everything checked and narrowed down the possible problems were:

a)0 kh which can causes ph swings
b)bacteria problem

I remember reading a thread on mosura old sea mud and how it increases kH so I tried it, but 150% over the recommended dosage. (Never dose a param changing product directly into tank as shrimps can get a shock and die, always dilute it in a cup of tank water first then add slowly/evenly over the entire tank) It didn't work, the Kh was still reading 0. I wanted immediate results without killing my crs with the sea mud. The next step which I wanted to avoid (for those of you whose read 101 will know I avoid tap water at all costs) was to use tap water. I primed a 9 liter bucket and dripped it into my tank. With'in half a day the crs went back to normal and I haven't had a death since. The ph is stable at 6.6 and the kh is up to 2 now with a combination of aged tap water and old sea mud. I also threw in an ada bactor ball just in case it was the bacteria issue. Regardless of the cause of death I didn't feel comfortable having a tank with 0kh. It's been more then 10 days now and my tank is flourishing. I see new babies everywhere ranging from new borns (1mm-2mm) to juvies (1/2") which is usually the size where it's safe to assume they will survive and not "disappear")

If you are having random deaths use the process of elimination to determine the exact problems. It sounds like common sense but we usually skip steps and make assumptions resulting in unnecessary water changes or wrong additives. Throughout the past 2 years of keeping and breeding I've personally discovered a few key elements which I will only bullet point and discuss further int eh near future.

*Water Stability is crucial. I cannot repeat this one enough, yet it seems to always fall on some deaf ears.
*Mild over feeding can kill more crs then not feeding at all
*It's exponentially easier to keep/breed crs in larger tanks then smaller ones(stability issue) If you were my best friend in the entire world and had the space I would not suggest anything under 25gal. If you lived in a tiny bachelor 480 sqft condo, I would say "keep them at the very least in a 20gal, any smaller then your just keeping them as decorations and there's no point" But that's only if your were my BFF  and had the benefits of my personal experience. If your a random person, new to this hobby asking me, I'd probably say something along the lines of "yeah, I guess your 10 gal is fine for now" 
*Filtration. Ideally you want a canister filter that can hold as much medium as possible so you can grow as much beneficial bacteria as possible. 
*In my opinion I would say 90% of keeping/breeding a successful CRS tank is water related. Atleast for a new-moderate level hobbyist.

This is video was taken roughly 5 hours after I discovered the problem and as you can see the crs are much more active.





*Chaper 2*
"To buy or not to Buy"

Shrimp keeping can be both very inexpensive and pricey depending, in proportion to how much success and fun you have with this hobby. Make no mistake, keeping/breeding crs can become very addictive as with any interest you invest both time and energy into. It's easy to get caerried away with all the latest crs products and buy things you don't need or know how to use. Knowing what to buy and when all comes down to how much experience you have with the hobby. Different skill levels require different products to be a successful crs keeper/ breeder. For example a seasoned CRS hobbyist would not use a non crs specific aquasoil, just as a brand new CRS hobbist wouldn't use a TDS meter or canister filter. This is why I've put together a list of the appropriate products required at each specific skill level of the hobbyist. The financial aspect is marginally incrimental, meaning you can start with very little and upgrade slowly over time depending on; how comfortable you are with this hobby, how successful you are(an indication of when to advance to the next level), what specific challenge you want to overcome (eg. Upgrading Larger tank =better water stability)

Beginner Level

- >5 gallon tank 
-small pack of fluval EBI substrate (red package)
-mini aqua slim filter
-sponge intake cover
-Mini light
-thermometer strip
-organic baby spinach
-R/O water
-Java Moss/duckweed
-Ammonia/no2/no3/ph test kit

Conversion Level (for those with exsisting fish/shrimp tanks)
-Small pack fluval EBI substrate / 9L ADA aquasoil (5-10gal / 10-20gal)
-javamoss/duckweed
-Organic baby spinach
-R/O water
-Replace filter media with 1/3 sponge 2/3 bio media
-Sponge intake cover

Intermediate Level (keeping crs >6months)
- >20gal
- CRS baby food
- Liquid mineral (raise tds and gh)
- good lighting (plants health is related to crs food supply)
- Gh/kh test kit
-Single meat based food (Mosura Excel, Shirakiku)
-double sponge intake filter
-Indian Almond leafs

Advanced Level
-TDS tester pen
-ADA aquasoil / Netlea
-Javamoss, Duckweed
-Canister filter with 100% bio media (eheim subtrate pro)
-Mineral rock
-Partitioned tanks for selective breeding

Professional Level
-UGF. Setup
-UGF dense shrimp soil (eg. Benibachi,Gex)
-Nursery
-Home made CRS food
-Mutilple canister filers
-Personal secrets and techniques(unknown)


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## splur

Funny enough about kH, when I first contacted you about my CRS dying, my kH was at zero. It was understandably at zero because I was using remineralized RO/DI water.

The last water change I made like a month ago I did what everyone suggested not to do... I added baking soda to 8 L of water (literally the smallest sprinkle ever, the first time I tried the water tested at a kH of like 8, so way too high) and did a WC with that, including remineralization. I haven't had a death since.

I can't be sure whether that helped or not though, as I added floating plants and the tank had a bit more time to establish itself, but whatever it is I'm glad to have no deaths since. *crosses fingers*


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## Zebrapl3co

I find that a bigger tank is really hard and chaotic to work with if you are selectively refining your shrimps. Perhapes making it a partitioned 20 or 30G would have been a better advice. It will allow you to grade your shrimps and not have to worry about water shock.

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## CrystalMethShrimp

Zebrapl3co said:


> I find that a bigger tank is really hard and chaotic to work with if you are selectively refining your shrimps. Perhapes making it a partitioned 20 or 30G would have been a better advice. It will allow you to grade your shrimps and not have to worry about water shock.


It's funny you mentioned that cause I'm in the process of documenting a 30 gal crs set up that partitioned into 3 x 10 gal. Photos and all. But your getting ahead of me 3-4 chapters.


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## getochkn

The problem I had with partitions is water flow and having the filter intake in 1 section and not pulling in debris from the rest. The other problem was, no matter how tight the partitions seemed, babies would get through. I had yellow/cherry/snowball and would find different colors babies all over the place. The only way I would do it again would be to take a new tank, and silicone in plexi to make 3 truly separate tanks and then have 3 filters running.

My neo's are breeding and producing babies like crazy. My problem is getting Crystal babies to survive. I have seen 15 babies at once and a week later, none. I have had several berried moms release, see babies and have never had 1 grow up or last. I don't want to clutter your thread here Crystal, but would mind if I pm'd you with some param's and what I'm doing and see if maybe you can help?


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## CrystalMethShrimp

Keeping babies alive is a bit tricky especially if you have higher grade crs and lack the key products. As a matter of fact I was in your position and I can tell you that I've lost atleast 70-100 babies before I corrected my technique. I can point out most of your nmistakes b/c I've made many of them as well.

Let's try this. Post the full details of your tank, params, temp, size, age, feeding schedule, products you use, filter, and a photo. From there I can guide you and we'll fix your tank together. This way other members can follow along and we can point out common problems most members run into.



Btw what filter did you run when you partitioned your tank?


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## getochkn

Ok, the current tank they are in is a 7.5 gallon, sponge filter + Rena XP1 (replaced by an aquaclear 30). Netlea soil, first with tap water, then tried RO water with Fluval Mineral suppliment, and RO/Tap mix. pH sits around 6.4, ammonia 0, nitrtite 0, nitrates are low as I have lots of frogbit floating around. Try not to do too many WC's and mostly just top off. Temp is around 72-74c, cooled with a fan on top. I have crystals from Anna, Ricky and my LFS, so a mix of different grades and breeders. Dose Mosuara bioplus every few days. Tank has some driftwood with moss, moss tied to a rock and some moss balls for fauna. The most babies I saw at once was about 15 when I was using just aged tap water with the Netlea soil. I started the RO playing around after that and barely saw any babies since. I did have a Hydra outbreak, that I'm told could have decimated the baby population, and have since treated for that.

Feeding is every couple days and its either a bit of Fluval Shrimp food, Hikari sinking wafer, piece of Zuchini once a week. I don't get many adult deaths other than odd original adult that are 10months since I had them and were adults when I got them from the LFS. 

Currently, I have a 20gal I got from the auction, that I dumped about 3/4 of a bag of Netlea soil in, and has been cycling and is about done. pH is about 6.2 in that tank, temp 72c, the Rena XP1 is on that tank now and a jumbo sponge filter and some wood with moss and some moss balls. I added some low grade males to it and they have all survived as well as some snowballs as the two will share the tank and everyone is alive so far. I did use tap water to start it off during the cycling for the sake of easy of use of doing small water changes to lower the ammonia leeching during cycling. gh is around 5 and kh is 0, or 1, never sure if it changes on the first drop, does that mean 0? I am in Hamilton, not Toronto, so not sure on how our tap water compares, but the netlea has no problem seeming to create the ideal conditions.

I have a few berried moms still in the 7.5gal tank that about to pop as eggs have changed from brown to clear, so I guess I can see if it was the hydra or not, or the messing with different kinds of water and I don't want to move them so close to hatching time. I have went back to treated, aged water for that tank as well. I don't have a TDS meter yet, one is on the way from overseas, so who knows when. lol.

Snowballs, yellows, cherries are breeding fine and babies are fine in tap water, and fluval shrimp/eco complete mix substrate in their tanks. I also have some wild tigers in another tank with the same substrate and tap water that I have 3-4 berried moms that should pop anytime but have had no problems with them. Bought 12 and have all 12 around still and they were berried within a week of buying them from Franks about a month ago. Its the crystals that seem to be the problem.

I know Anna uses the netlea soil and tap water, others seem to have no problem with tap water and activated soil, with or without RO water top offs, so I would say possibly the hydra or me messing with the water. Other than that, I'm not sure really what else to try or what I'm doing wrong. All the params seem fine and in the proper range, temp is fine, adults are living fine so its not bacteria/parasites or anything. I'm at a loss and have some nice SS and SSS males from Anna and Ricky that I would to be able to pass on their genes providing the babies can last. lol.


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## getochkn

CrystalMethShrimp said:


> Btw what filter did you run when you partitioned your tank?


Each section had a large Hydro sponge filter and I had the Rena XP1 on the tank as a whole. After I got the vortecilo (sp) outbreak with the cherries, I took out the XP1 and added 3 aquaclears, 1 for each section. Eventually though, I just started moving shrimp around and got another tank, so the 20long will be cherries, 5.5gal will be for the wild tigers for the time being, 7.5 will be for the yellows and the new 20gal will be for crystals and snowballs.


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## solarz

CrystalMethShrimp said:


> I primed a 9 liter bucket and dripped it into my tank. With'in half a day the crs went back to normal and I haven't had a death since. The ph is stable at 6.6 and the kh is up to 2 now with a combination of aged tap water and old sea mud.


How long did you drip it for? I just did the same thing, and although my kH is now at 2, my pH is now 7.6+. I hope my shrimps survive this...


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## CrystalMethShrimp

solarz said:


> How long did you drip it for? I just did the same thing, and although my kH is now at 2, my pH is now 7.6+. I hope my shrimps survive this...


from 6.8ph to 7.6? your gonna kill all your crs


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## Greg_o

I think with the kh so low isn't pH somewhat relative? (this is certainly an aspect of water chemistry I need to learn more about)


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## solarz

The pH has dropped back down to 7.2. I had lost 2 shrimps from before the water change, when KH was zero, and the remaining shrimps seem to be doing fine so far. Here's to hoping it continues.

I had been doing small water changes with only RO water, which probably caused the KH to fall.


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## CrystalMethShrimp

solarz said:


> The pH has dropped back down to 7.2. I had lost 2 shrimps from before the water change, when KH was zero, and the remaining shrimps seem to be doing fine so far. Here's to hoping it continues.
> 
> I had been doing small water changes with only RO water, which probably caused the KH to fall.


Solarz, be very careful about changing your water param around. It's not good for your crs or bacteria.

If you want to raise kh, do it very slowly so that you push the ph up in incriments of only 0.5 per day. And keep the overall ph below 7. If your ph is high right now, you can do 1 of two things. Either throw in 3-5 handfuls of shrimp soil or reach your hand into the tank (washed ofcourse) and crumble handfuls to release some acids. This should bring your ph back down to 6.6.

Btw Chatper 2 is up right below chpater 1.


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## getochkn

CrystalMethShrimp said:


> Solarz, be very careful about changing your water param around. It's not good for your crs or bacteria.
> 
> If you want to raise kh, do it very slowly so that you push the ph up in incriments of only 0.5 per day. And keep the overall ph below 7. If your ph is high right now, you can do 1 of two things. Either throw in 3-5 handfuls of shrimp soil or reach your hand into the tank (washed ofcourse) and crumble handfuls to release some acids. This should bring your ph back down to 6.6.
> 
> Btw Chatper 2 is up right below chpater 1.


Make sure its not new netlea soil as that stuff leechs ammonia forever. lol. 2+" though has buffered my tap water i filled it with from 7.6 down to 6 though and staying there with small waterchanges throughout the cycling. I can also say the low pH does seem to kill the ammonia as I have a few low grades that snuck in on some frogbit that I put in the tank and they are doing fine even with ammonia at 4ppm.


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## splur

So I noticed my CRS colors fading lately and tested the water. Everything seemed normal except for the most important one, ammonia was at 0-0.25 ppm and I had no idea why as there hasn't been ammonia in the tank for a long time. Nothing obvious dying in the tank and there wasn't any left over food.

Then it clicked, I recently switched from 100% RO/DI water to a 70-80% RO/DI water and 20-30% tap water mixture with mosura mineral plus. I tested the tap water and found the culprit; it tested for 0.5 ppm! It might be because I spoiled my CRS with RO/DI water for so long they can't even handle a bit of ammonia.


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## solarz

Well, it's been two days and the remaining CRS seem to be doing fine so far. They seem more active than before the water change, so I guess KH really is quite important!


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## splur

Shrimp babies!!!! My CRS is slowly releasing one at a time, I've been adding bacteria for them to eat. My water tested for a bit of ammonia last week, somewhere between 0-0.25 ppm but I think it was from the tap water I added days before. Since then I've done another water change so it shouldn't be as high (pre-shrimplets). Dosed a bit of kH too during the WC. Everything else is good.

Now, to keep them alive. Does topping of endanger them? The last WC didn't end up getting the tank full, it's missing maybe 2-3% lol. Any other tips?


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## matti2uude

What do you use to dose Kh?


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## splur

baking soda hahahaha!!


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## matti2uude

I used a little crushed coral in my filter to raise my Kh before. 


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## splur

The babies are on stuff, but not moving at all. That normal?

edit - nevermind they're moving... just extremely slowly.


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## splur

How long should I be waiting before doing a water change when baby shrimps come out? They've been out for a week, but new ones keep coming.

I want to add an eheim filter to the tank, so it's more like a water addition.


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## manmadecorals

is there a chapter somewhere about feeding your shrimps?


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## Zebrapl3co

manhtu said:


> is there a chapter somewhere about feeding your shrimps?


That's already covered under the 101 post. See #6. There's not much to talk about.

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## iBetta

hey guys, 

i was wondering, how often do you feed your shrimps? everyday? every other day?


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## Jaysan

iBetta said:


> hey guys,
> 
> i was wondering, how often do you feed your shrimps? everyday? every other day?


I feed mine every other day and sometimes once every three days.

My tank now has about 15 baby crs, so I feed the microorganism powder a bit about 4 times a week. Sometimes back to back, other times every other day.


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## randy

iBetta said:


> hey guys,
> 
> i was wondering, how often do you feed your shrimps? everyday? every other day?


That's the kind of questions that get us in trouble. 

My take is, I feed the maximum possible that still keep my nitrate in control. And if you're having trouble with ammonia or nitrite, you might as well stop feeding them for a while before your tank gets stable.

That said, I feed my shrimps daily except Monday, and I try to do water change on Monday nights. The one days rest + WC normally gets nitrate down enough. I remove any food after 2 to 3 hours. The tanks that have no nitrate or less than 5ppm get more food, if nitrate is near 20 then they get no food for a while before the floaters and purigen get the nitrate out.

I have tanks with 0 nitrate because I have tons of floaters in the tank (over 50 shrimps in a 7G). My PFR tank (6G with no light , with close to 100 PFRs, and only very little java moss) has nitrate issue at 10 to 15 ppm, but I feed them still because they are so tough, but this tank gets most WCs also because it's right beside my RO system


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## iBetta

thanks for the advice! ya, i always get confused because there doesn't seem to have a pattern in terms of WC and feeding. some people just offs, some just feed once a month. some never feed. i'm just scared that the shrimps will go hungry O: (at least if i never feed or maybe even once a month?)


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## splur

You should also try switching between foods. When I get babies, I feed daily with bioplus, once every 2 weeks with some actual food pellets. I like this because I find the powdered foods get distributed more (each shrimp gets a bit vs some get a lot) and it doesn't affect the water quality much.


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## mr_bako

*feed*



randy said:


> That's the kind of questions that get us in trouble.
> 
> My take is, I feed the maximum possible that still keep my nitrate in control. And if you're having trouble with ammonia or nitrite, you might as well stop feeding them for a while before your tank gets stable.
> 
> That said, I feed my shrimps daily except Monday, and I try to do water change on Monday nights. The one days rest + WC normally gets nitrate down enough. I remove any food after 2 to 3 hours. The tanks that have no nitrate or less than 5ppm get more food, if nitrate is near 20 then they get no food for a while before the floaters and purigen get the nitrate out.
> 
> I have tanks with 0 nitrate because I have tons of floaters in the tank (over 50 shrimps in a 7G). My PFR tank (6G with no light , with close to 100 PFRs, and only very little java moss) has nitrate issue at 10 to 15 ppm, but I feed them still because they are so tough, but this tank gets most WCs also because it's right beside my RO system


I feed my shrimps 6/7 days of the week, i do not have a set schedule. Usually in the mornings and I always always rotate foods and make my own to suit what needs to be fed/done.

But more importantly as randy mentioned, we feed as much as we can handle the water quality. And floaters are amazing help in maintaining low levels of toxins in your tan.

Just always never leave leftovers overnight.


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