# Water water water, why your shrimps die!



## CrystalMethShrimp (Apr 27, 2010)

I've had alot of experience with what NOT to do with keeping shrimps and for the first 2/3 period of having them I've lost over 40 (no kidding) 40! crs.

That being said, for the past 4 months I've not had a single death and at this moment I have 4-5 berried females out of 30 high grade shrimp I brought in from Japan.

*These I find are essential to keeping them alive:*
1)Stable water
2)Stable water
3)Stable water!! What I mean by this is to pay attention to your water changes. In the past I would take out 50% water and dumped in 50%. A Huge NO NO I've learned the hard way 
The GH and Kh and Ph all change suddenly on a weekly basis and it harms their health.

*For water changes heres what I do exactly. (6 gallon/26 Liter tank)*

1)Do a GH and PH test to tank (Gh should be 4-6 and KH 1-2 and ph 6.4-6.8) 
2)Take out 50% of water. 
3)In a bucket I add R/O water with a gh of 2-3 and ph 6-6.4 (I avoid tap now) then add liquid mineral. 
4)Use "drip method" over the course of 5-8 hours and refill the tank (the filter is off the entire time). Your want the shrimps to adjust slowly to the new water and make them feel comfortable. It's like decompressing when you go deep sea diving.
5) Once filled up perform another water test to ensure your around the same water parameter as before your water change. Then turn filter back on.

If you have a nano tank like me it's easy to buy a 18.9L water jug and fill it at your local super markets which only charge $2.99 for R/O water, these machiens are self oeprated. But be sure to bring your ph tester as some never change their filters and R/O water should have a ph of 6.0-6.4 no higher.

I honestly believe this is a HUMUNGUS factor is keeping them alive and letting them breed.

*
Other factors that play a large role:*

1) Reduce feeding to every other day and in small amount. 
2) ADA substrate/Fluval Substrate.
3) Co2 lowers the ph an addtional 0.4ph for me and help plants grow to remove more no3.
4) Leave the water alone as much as you can.
5) Lots of plants for 2 crucial purpose 1)They clean the water and remove NO3
2)Hiding places help them breed and molt without stress

There are more factors to take into considerations but these are the mains one to FOCUS and pay attention to, especially and I cannot stress enough to beginners, water stability!!


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

Why do you do 50% water changes? Why not go with smaller water changes? How often do you do your water changes?


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## Beijing08 (Jul 19, 2010)

*good point, but a little unrealistic for some people*

Important point you've raised. but you only have 1 tank. 
stability is achieved by breeders (with hundreds of tanks) by increasing the volume of water.
also, by high grades, how high do u mean? I'm keeping mosuras hearts and crowns with normal water changing regimes...and pure tap water.
I do believe choii317 does the same with flowerheads. Maybe it's something else on top of the water changes that kills shrimp


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## ShrimpieLove (Apr 26, 2010)

CrystalMethShrimp said:


> I've had alot of experience with what NOT to do with keeping shrimps and for the first 2/3 period of having them I've lost over 40 (no kidding) 40! crs.
> 
> That being said, for the past 4 months I've not had a single death and at this moment I have 4-5 berried females out of 30 high grade shrimp I brought in from Japan.
> 
> ...


Great info! Im getting some crs and my tank is 5 gallons so this helps alot! 
Yes id like to know how often ur doing water changes too...


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## jimmyjam (Nov 6, 2007)

I also find if I have dead shrimps they are due to water changed.. thats why I started a thread on how people perform their water changes. I find Small and frequent changed dripped in is the best method. I also find if I have locally bred shrimp, the ph is not a huge factor, and more so the stability is the issue. I do find that the ADA soil has given me better outcome with baby shrimps, but my ph is still hovering around 7.1.


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## Beijing08 (Jul 19, 2010)

jimmyjam said:


> I also find if I have dead shrimps they are due to water changed.. thats why I started a thread on how people perform their water changes. I find Small and frequent changed dripped in is the best method. I also find if I have locally bred shrimp, the ph is not a huge factor, and more so the stability is the issue. I do find that the ADA soil has given me better outcome with baby shrimps, but my ph is still hovering around 7.1.


ya need a thicker layer Jimmy =]
for crystals Japanese ppl use over 3" minimum.


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## dp12345 (Sep 12, 2010)

hi crystalmethshrimps:

What is the brand name of the r/o you buy from the supermarket.
Is nimbus water r/o water.
What are the other commercial brand names of water you recommend that is good for crs.
thanks
dp


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## jimmyjam (Nov 6, 2007)

Beijing08 said:


> ya need a thicker layer Jimmy =]
> for crystals Japanese ppl use over 3" minimum.


its thick enough.. trust me. The water looks like if its filled with tanins, but no big ph drop. Im pretty sure I got one of the bad batches of ADA1 that have been circulating. Im sure a bunch of us have recently.. I think CAmboy being one of them. In regards to shrimp health, I find no difference between this batch of ADA 1 and my previous one that have been lowering my ph to about 6.4. My black hinos. no entries, tiger tooths have no problems, I just have a occational death of really big low grades.. odd.. perhaps their old (have had some for 1.5 yrs).

I have also got a bad batch of ada2, I have at least 5 inches at the back of the scape, and 2 -3 in front, with no drop in ph after a week. Its 6.6 ish now only bc my co2 is set at 30+ppm.

Bei, whats your ph at minus co2 in your mosura tank with what it looks like a a inch of ada ?


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

In any system stability is key.

What you're saying with the water changes inherently doesn't make any sense. If your WC water matches your tank parameters close enough except for the excess nutrients (NO3 and PO4), you should be able to just dump it in. People with big systems have no time to drip 50 gallons back into their systems, and have ALL their equipment off while it happens. Heck, I don't drip a 5g tank - it's a waste of my time. I just would do more frequent WCs so that the change isn't huge WC to WC and so it's far less stressful to anything living in there. 

If anything you should pin down why your KH/GH/pH swings so much week to week and attempt to rectify that within the tank. Ideally, all you're doing with your WCs is getting nutrients/waste out of the system. Interventions between WC (be it manual dosing or some other media to raise parameters) would be the way to gain long term stability.


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## CrystalMethShrimp (Apr 27, 2010)

Beijing08 said:


> Important point you've raised. but you only have 1 tank.
> stability is achieved by breeders (with hundreds of tanks) by increasing the volume of water.
> also, by high grades, how high do u mean? I'm keeping mosuras hearts and crowns with normal water changing regimes...and pure tap water.
> I do believe choii317 does the same with flowerheads. Maybe it's something else on top of the water changes that kills shrimp


My tips are meant for most beginners not professional breeders and also those with smaller tank aroung 15gal. I do find it interesting you use pure tap instead of r/o. Do you find it difficult to lower ph.?? I think the main reason for their deaths is the fast water change as oppose to the drip method which allows the shrimps time to adjust. Do you just use tap out of the pipes?


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## CrystalMethShrimp (Apr 27, 2010)

I perform a wc every 2 weeks but because I feed very little my no3 is still under 5 ppm when I do. As for the brand of ro water any is fine as long as you see on the machine there is a osmosis stage labelled in the filtering cycle.

Amekplec I cant dump my water in because the ro water has 6.0ph and my tank is 6.4ph I think that's why my crs kept dying before seeing as how it's the only routine I've changed in the last 3 months and havent had any deaths since. I'm sure however this is impractical for larger tanks and I'm glad you gave advice on that matter. 

As for the Ada I also got a bad batch and even with ro water it goes up to 6.8ph By using co2 at 40 bpm can I then bring it back down to 6.4ph. Btw Jimmy saw your beautiful tank, btw did you order those rocks off the Ada web site.?


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## Beijing08 (Jul 19, 2010)

CrystalMethShrimp said:


> I think the main reason for their deaths is the fast water change as oppose to the drip method which allows the shrimps time to adjust. Do you just use tap out of the pipes?


yea, I just use straight out of the tap. check out my tank thread for berried pictures. I may be switching to RO soon though...I've had this tank for 4 months with pure tap water.



jimmyjam said:


> Bei, whats your ph at minus co2 in your mosura tank with what it looks like a a inch of ada ?


glad I got the proper ADA I (from James)
1" it's around 6.8. My OEBT tank (which I have now torn down, gave the tigers to my roommate) i have 2" and it's down to 6.4. No CO2 of course.


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## CrystalMethShrimp (Apr 27, 2010)

yeah I bought a bag last month from aquainspiration still unopened. I hope it's not a bad batch. Maybe they'll let return it and I can trade it for the fluval ebi sub. Hopefully not though as the smaller grains will make it harder to plant anything.

Yeah switching to R/O may be better as there are alot of stuff in tap water that may cause harm in the long run. I heard alot of perscription drugs from people's urine are going into your drinking system. I'm curious as to how the water treatment plants are dealing with this and wether or not an R/O unit will make any difference as it is on the molecular level.


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## igor.kanshyn (Jan 14, 2010)

*You do very big water changes*

Why do you perform so big water changes?

I can see only one reason to do this. It's if you are fertilizing according to EI (estimated Index) method. But in this case you had to do this weekly.


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## CrystalMethShrimp (Apr 27, 2010)

igor.kanshyn said:


> Why do you perform so big water changes?
> 
> I can see only one reason to do this. It's if you are fertilizing according to EI (estimated Index) method. But in this case you had to do this weekly.


I'm doing 50% on a 6gal every other week.
I'm worried that 30% may not be enough?

btw igor is it safe to use seachem excel or flourite ( dunno which is better) on a crs S-SS grade with 1/2 dosage? the time is low-med denisty planted.


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## CrystalMethShrimp (Apr 27, 2010)

Another issue I've always wondered about is if you need to preform a W/C if the no3 is still 0ppm. Are there any other substances I need to remove from the tank?


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Do it every week. And then you won't have to go through all the dripping and filter-turn-offing business.


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## Beijing08 (Jul 19, 2010)

if your nitrate is low, that means your plants are doing their job. I'd say just top off.


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## bettaforu (Sep 6, 2009)

I only do a 20% water change if I notice a higher ammonia level. All of my tanks show 0 ammonia and 0 nitrate/nitrite. I don't do any water changes to tanks unless there is a change in the above! I top up water when it goes down due to heat in the room, other than that I leave everything alone.

I have many berried shrimps including CRS and no deaths!
I don't use RO water, just straight out of the tap and Amquel+ conditioner added to it. Some times I add mineral clay or liquid calcium, but thats all I do.
It works for me!


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

A higher ammonia level? You mean, you can detect ammonia in your tank? =D


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## dp12345 (Sep 12, 2010)

hi: crystalmethshrimp:

What liquid mineral do you add to your r/o water and what is the volume/gal of r/o water.

thanks
dp


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## bettaforu (Sep 6, 2009)

I test for ammonia levels in my tanks all the time. I have a master test kit which allows me to test for lots of things  when you have as many tanks as I do you need to be on top of any problems before you end up with dead shrimps


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## Kweli (Jun 2, 2010)

Smaller water changes more often = more stability then 50% water changes less often


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## CrystalMethShrimp (Apr 27, 2010)

I'm going to try that.

15% change every week.
Turns out crs prefer mineral rich water for breeding and plants love aged water for growth.


For Mineral I use Mosura Mineral Plus but it's not a very good brand in my oppinion so I just bought a bottle of Shirakura Liquid mineral off ebay.

What do you mean by volume of R/O? the jug is 18.9 Liters and my tank is 26 liters. For the mineral the dosage is 1ml for every 5 liters.


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## Greg_o (Mar 4, 2010)

Why is it important to turn off the filter during the drip process? I would have assumed it would be better to leave it running to help mix in the new water.


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## Kweli (Jun 2, 2010)

In some tanks when you remove water the pump is exposed to air... 

In my SW setup i have to turn-off the return pumps during water changes or else it will run dry and flood my tank with air bubbles


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## dp12345 (Sep 12, 2010)

what should be the temp of the tank?
How do you control it?
dp


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## Kweli (Jun 2, 2010)

Im a saltwater guy..

But for me I have a heater for my waterchange bucket and make sure the temp is the same before doing the change


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## CrystalMethShrimp (Apr 27, 2010)

I think most people are comfortably living in 21-24 degree house condition which is what you tank should be around.


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## igor.kanshyn (Jan 14, 2010)

CrystalMethShrimp said:


> I'm doing 50% on a 6gal every other week.
> I'm worried that 30% may not be enough?
> 
> btw igor is it safe to use seachem excel or flourite ( dunno which is better) on a crs S-SS grade with 1/2 dosage? the time is low-med denisty planted.


As other people suggest, smaller water changes will be better.

5ppm nitrates is almost nothing. I use fertilization that contains nitrates in one of my tank with shrimps. My nitrates are 40-80ppm there, shrimps alive. They are not breeding but getting berried regularly.

If your filter working fine, it should take care about ammonia and nitrites. Nitrates will be used by plants.

I see that you use CO2 injection. It can be not really useful without fertilization. And one of the major fertilization component is Nitrates


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## igor.kanshyn (Jan 14, 2010)

dp12345 said:


> what should be the temp of the tank?
> How do you control it?
> dp


It depends on shrimps. CRS and tigers need room temperate (21-25C) to live and breed well.
Neocaridina (yellow, snowball, blue pearl and cherry) shrimps don't mind different temperature. But they will breed faster in higher temperature.

Now I use heater in sulawesi shrimps aquarium only


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## igor.kanshyn (Jan 14, 2010)

CrystalMethShrimp said:


> For Mineral I use Mosura Mineral Plus but it's not a very good brand in my oppinion so I just bought a bottle of Shirakura Liquid mineral off ebay.
> 
> What do you mean by volume of R/O? the jug is 18.9 Liters and my tank is 26 liters. For the mineral the dosage is 1ml for every 5 liters.


Have you tried to measure GH and KH before and after adding that minerals?


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## CrystalMethShrimp (Apr 27, 2010)

With recommanded dosage the mosura min plus brings ro water from 2gh to 5gh and ph stays about the same. I didn't notice any change to the kh either. I prefer not to use mosura anymore, I've heard bad things about it and I decide to switch to a more reputable brand like shikikua which has been around for 10 years.


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## redclove (Feb 26, 2008)

smaller water changes work for me..


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## KhuliLoachFan (Mar 8, 2008)

bettaforu: Ameekplec I think was saying that you should not even be able to detect your ammonia levels in a cycled, stable tank. If you test regularly for ammonia and you SEE SOME, you have a bigger problem than water changes.

A stable mature, properly filtered tank with good water flow should not have a detectable level of ammonia. (It would read zero on your colorimetric test kit, and be in effect, below the scale of your test, such as in the 0.1 ppm scale or lower).

As for water changes; Anything less frequent than a weekly water change spells trouble for shrimp in smaller tanks, no matter how little you feed them. At my house, in the winter, for example, even weekly water loss due to evaporation would be cause for concern. Rather than top up the tank between water changes, just change the water more often, and reduce it from 50% to 25%, if you like, and do it twice a week.

W


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

KhuliLoachFan said:


> bettaforu: Ameekplec I think was saying that you should not even be able to detect your ammonia levels in a cycled, stable tank. If you test regularly for ammonia and you SEE SOME, you have a bigger problem than water changes.
> 
> A stable mature, properly filtered tank with good water flow should not have a detectable level of ammonia. (It would read zero on your colorimetric test kit, and be in effect, below the scale of your test, such as in the 0.1 ppm scale or lower).


That is what I was implying, yes


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