# Let's try this again: ADA 60P Journal



## vraev

Hey guys,

I made a planted tank nearly 6y ago and had to tear it down immediately (a couple of months) due to family issues. I still love planted tanks and watch too many planted tank videos and always resisted re-starting one up. Last year, I bought a tank and light here from Ryan and it has been used for growing some carnivorous plants, until finally, this week, I decided to re-try a high tech planted tank. I am planning on doing a dry start with Montecarlo and elocharis hair grass mini. This is one bag of aqua soil (9L) and I am contemplating whether I should open up the second bag, or use some colorado sand. I want to make a strong hardscape that I will enjoy for a while to come. I couldn't justify spending a lot for stones and ended up buying "landscape" stones from Big Als. Looks pretty good if I may say so. What do you think?

My goal is a Lush green HC or Monte Carlo carpet with grass in between giving the sense of scale. I want a bright red focal plant at the back/center in between the rocks (should I get bigger rocks?) The livestock I want to have is again very specific : oto cats, siamese algae eaters, Amano shrimp, celestial pearl danios, chili rasbora and at least a couple of Dario Dario.

Which of these ideas do you guys like best? Any other suggestions on rearrangement?

Thanks

V


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## iamaloner

Imo

Soil level looks good
Bigger rocks if you want hardscape focus other red focal plant will eat up the space
I like the 2nd layout the best but the 1st one is also very good 

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## vraev

Thanks for the comments. I agree... I like the second one the best so far. I am also on the lookout for more stone to raise the focal strength on the top left corner. Need a bigger stone.


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## coldmantis

Are you planning on adding co2? if you already have a setup, Monte Carlo is a pretty easy plant to grow and doesn't really need DSM. You might even loose more MC from transition from emerse to submerse then just planting and flooding.


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## vraev

Ah..good to know. Yea.. I want to do MC, hairgrass mini, a red alternatha reneckii .. maybe hydrophila pinnatafida. Can you even do a dry start with stem plants?


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## coldmantis

vraev said:


> Ah..good to know. Yea.. I want to do MC, hairgrass mini, a red alternatha reneckii .. maybe hydrophila pinnatafida. Can you even do a dry start with stem plants?


pinnatafida yes not sure about ar though probably?


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## Ryan s

Nice too see this tank, and light still being used by you. Second scape looks good, I'd take away the flat rocks on the left. Looking forward to up dates.



vraev said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I made a planted tank nearly 6y ago and had to tear it down immediately (a couple of months) due to family issues. I still love planted tanks and watch too many planted tank videos and always resisted re-starting one up. Last year, I bought a tank and light here from Ryan and it has been used for growing some carnivorous plants, until finally, this week, I decided to re-try a high tech planted tank. I am planning on doing a dry start with Montecarlo and elocharis hair grass mini. This is one bag of aqua soil (9L) and I am contemplating whether I should open up the second bag, or use some colorado sand. I want to make a strong hardscape that I will enjoy for a while to come. I couldn't justify spending a lot for stones and ended up buying "landscape" stones from Big Als. Looks pretty good if I may say so. What do you think?
> 
> My goal is a Lush green HC or Monte Carlo carpet with grass in between giving the sense of scale. I want a bright red focal plant at the back/center in between the rocks (should I get bigger rocks?) The livestock I want to have is again very specific : oto cats, siamese algae eaters, Amano shrimp, celestial pearl danios, chili rasbora and at least a couple of Dario Dario.
> 
> Which of these ideas do you guys like best? Any other suggestions on rearrangement?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> V


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## vraev

Thanks @coldmantis. Will try it out. I might do what you are suggesting and just flood it early too.

Nice to hear from you Ryan. I wish I had followed through and got your Twinstar S. That would have been perfect for those high light plants. But looking forward to seeing this tank shine.

I just got some new rock from Jesse here on the forum.. will be trying some new designs tonight.


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## vraev

Hey guys,

Got some new stones, made a new layout. There is a subtle difference in between the two options. I really like the main stone's flow and I think it will fit very well with a swept layout. The first is me just laying them on the substrate, while the second required some mighty balancing to get it stable. Hopefully it doesn't fall and crack the glass.



















other views of the 2nd..



















What do you guys think?


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## kevinay007

I like the last one!

Fyi, mini landscaping stones are seiryu stones


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## vraev

Thanks guys. Here is an update. I planted it two days ago and already did my first water change. I still don't have a filter for the tank.


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## coldmantis

Looks very good man, When I see your tank I have fear in my eyes. When that Hair Grass grows into the Monte Carlo man oh man it will be very high maintenance to trim/pull.


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## vraev

Lol..I’ll be happy if it survives the next two weeks until I get my filter (waiting for Boxing Day: is it worth it?? Do you think the Eheim 2215 will be much cheaper than the current 189 price tag at Big als?). Lol


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## iamaloner

You can always buy a used on also

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## vraev

It's ok. I found one for a great deal ($40 less than anywhere else = $149) on Reefsupplies.  I don't think BigAl's boxing week sale will even beat that. Hopefully it will arrive this week.


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## Ryan s

I'm glad you found a filter, tank looks great. Keep us updated.


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## vraev

Thanks Ryan. Here is the fully planted aquascape. Now to wait. I am seeing quite a bit of Monte Carlo melt though.

I need a CO2 setup. Anyone knows where I can get a 5lb or a 2lb CO2 cylinder and an appropriate CO2 regulator with a needle valve? In the past I used a Milwakee dual stage regulator. But I got the tank at aquainspiration (whom you guys know is out of business).

Definitely need to get new clear tubing for the filter (Eheim 2215). I also had to cut the outflow tube to fit in this tank. Overall the Eheim 2215 was worth going for the increased flow. I like the swaying action of the plants now..and that is pretty much on full. I also need glass lily pipes. Why is everything so expensive now? even on eBay? I used to get a beetle counter and lily pipes each under 15-20$ for cal aqua pieces. Does anyone have any suggestions for decent quality glassware? Is the Jardli lily pipes good quality and good countours for sending flow around the tank?


































Just checked my NH3 levels yesterday. Seems like I have a week or more to wait before I can start dropping in some Amano Shrimp.


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## coldmantis

My fingers are crossed for you that your rotala wallichii won't melt away and turn black. That's one plant I never grew successfully long term but I always seem to buy my wallichii at big als.


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## vraev

Thanks. I got mine at BigAls too. Fingers crossed. 

With regards to CO2, I was looking into a UNS mini CO2 regulator and a 24oz paintball tank. How long do you think that tank would last for this tank?


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## coldmantis

vraev said:


> Thanks. I got mine at BigAls too. Fingers crossed.
> 
> With regards to CO2, I was looking into a UNS mini CO2 regulator and a 24oz paintball tank. How long do you think that tank would last for this tank?


Hmm I did a write up I think on GTAA in regards to paintball tanks many many years ago. Too lazy to look for it but if I recall when I used paintball tanks 24oz running at 1bps would last around 4-6 months if running at 2bps maybe 3 months. I was running it around 3 bps on my 40g breeder and I think it lasted around a month to 1.5 months. Here is a tip for you most paintball places don't fill the tank properly if they do not weight it before and after I would run away (or bring your own digital scale lol). I can't tell you how many times I have refilled a paintball tank only for it to die a few days later since it wasn't filled properly.


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## iamaloner

Are you planning on eventually getting lily pipes?

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## vraev

Thanks for the insight man. That sounds alright. I will try to take a scale with me. lol

I don't have much space so I'd rather choose a small cylinder for this tank. Not to mention, this is the only tank I have, so I think a 5 or 10lbs cylinder will be overkill and too cluttered. I am trying to do a minimal ADA setup as much as possible. I'm planning on ordering the regulator from here: https://www.natureaquascapes.com/products/uns-mini-co2-regulator-single-gauge

this would be the tank : https://www.amazon.ca/Empire-Paintb...A22T8NYKY89&psc=1&refRID=R6GJZBP8CA22T8NYKY89

I am also going to try and find a UNS paintball adapter for the regulator.


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## vraev

iamaloner said:


> Are you planning on eventually getting lily pipes?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955W using Tapatalk


Definitely. I am trying to find a set somewhere. I cannot find any that isn't ridiculously priced. Furthermore, I can only find Jardli ones on amazon...and the set price is crazy compared to individual lily pipes. I found a decent price on amazon.com, so I might go for that.

I mean ADA ones are quality and demand their price...but it is so expensive. It is also hard to ID which third party lily pipes are decent quality. Not to mention, I am torn between which shape I need to get.. I don't want the regular pipe to wash the soil away from the opposite corner of the tank, especially since things are stacked up on the right side. I need to ensure the arrangement can move the water around without any dead spots.


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## squadz

Where did you get the aqua soil from? Was it ADA normal or powder?


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## vraev

I used 1.5 x 9L bags of normal type Amazonia with a little bit of powder on top. Got the soil from Angelfins.

I was away for the last few days and came back to a pleasant sight of progress in the tank. I also bought a couple of nice upgrades for the tank (DOOA lily outflow) .. (still need a good inflow)...and the glass cover.





































The Vietnam H'ra is growing. I also started dosing with iron/flourish excel/tropica advanced nutrition.

Excitingly, the wallichi is also growing.


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## vraev

Here is an update on the tank. Coming along pretty well if I may say so.


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## Jeepcarpenter

Absolutely gorgeous build and stunning footage, certainly inspirational. 


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## hendy8888

Looks really great! I want to try R. Wallichii one day, just havn't gotten around to it. I know it's too late but have you thought about stainless steel inflow/outflow with a built in surface skimmer? That way you wont have to worry about cleaning the lily pipes as much and can remove that unsightly skimmer. 

Keep the updates coming, its nice to see another journal on here.


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## vraev

Thank you very much guys. 

lol... 4 days after that video, the R. Wallichi is all covered with green algae.. The CO2 tank had a leak,...completely emptied in 3 days and the tank was full of algae. I think my bioload is pretty high and my feeding/lighting/other parameters are not in balance yet. 

Yes! I am now more than ever considering the stainless steel lily pipes. My only concern is the flow level. Already flow seems pretty high in my tank with the 2215... I don’t know if the outflow for the steel pipes will make it too much for my fish?


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## hendy8888

vraev said:


> The CO2 tank had a leak,...completely emptied in 3 days and the tank was full of algae.


I bet you will only do that once...I did it twice in a row when I started out with co2. Now I make sure to use soapy water to check for leaks around the fittings every time.


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## vraev

lol...yea. I need to follow my hunch and perhaps use the white plumber's tape to make sure the fittings are all sealed.


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## hendy8888

vraev said:


> lol...yea. I need to follow my hunch and perhaps use the white plumber's tape to make sure the fittings are all sealed.


Every metal threaded connection needs a sealant (teflon tape will do) or it will leak. The connection from the reg to the co2 tank needs a fiber or nylon washer that you can ask for when you get your tank filled.


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## vraev

I just got yellow tape from Home Depot that they recommend for high pressure fittings. Fingers crossed. Can't believe how expensive CO2 is...especially if the tank leaks...lol


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## vraev

Here is an update of the tank


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## jessesparks

Tank looking clean, plants looking great. Where did you get your small SAE?


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## vraev

jessesparks said:


> Tank looking clean, plants looking great. Where did you get your small SAE?


Thanks man. I got them a few months ago (december) from Finatics aquarium. I got 6...but one jumped and found it dead. Then a second jumped while I was in the room and heard it crash on the top glass..so since then.. I have been covering the tank more.comprehensively.


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## vraev

Update: Replaced the brownish stone with a similar colored stone I got from Arturo. Added another stone. Added some fissidens and Christmas moss to the stones.


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## jessesparks

Tank looking clean and stems looking lush. Man I love that ADA skimmer.. How much was that beauty?


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## vraev

Thank you man. Honestly...don’t bother with it. It was waaaay too expensive. Totally not worth it in my opinion. I have the Eheim one at $50 that i bought on Boxing Day sale. This thing is 6 x that cost. Don’t get me started why I even bothered. The biggest waste of money ever. It is not worth sending back after the customs duty that I paid either...so just a bad expense. The Eheim one is much more effective and robust. This thing looks awesome but gets choked easily and makes a clicking sound due to the float switch in it. Also the skimmer motor is very weak. Don’t get me wrong, it works...but just not as good as the Eheim. I haven’t decided...but I am flip-flopping on maybe selling it here on GTA aquaria just to recover at least part of the cost.


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## jessesparks

vraev said:


> Thank you man. Honestly...don't bother with it. It was waaaay too expensive. Totally not worth it in my opinion. I have the Eheim one at $50 that i bought on Boxing Day sale. This thing is 6 x that cost. Don't get me started why I even bothered. The biggest waste of money ever. It is not worth sending back after the customs duty that I paid either...so just a bad expense. The Eheim one is much more effective and robust. This thing looks awesome but gets choked easily and makes a clicking sound due to the float switch in it. Also the skimmer motor is very weak. Don't get me wrong, it works...but just not as good as the Eheim. I haven't decided...but I am flip-flopping on maybe selling it here on GTA aquaria just to recover at least part of the cost.


Thats pretty crazy.. Looks like i'm sticking with my Eheim ha!


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## vraev

Honestly.. that's a great call. I wish I didn't waste that money on this. But now I know.. this is the weakest motor ever. It hardly even sucks up any surface scum if the opening is even slightly blocked


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## vraev




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## vraev

A lot of changes have happened in the last few months:

1) Hendy was generous enough to share some of his incredible plants and I love the P. eructus plant. It adds a nice vibrancy to the tank.


























2) After a bit, I finally caved to the huge bio load causing issues and gave away all my 22 x cardinals , 5 x SAE to Big Als. The byproduct of that was the cherry shrimp came out to play. LOL. They loved it. The tank belonged to them


















3) Bought new livestock : 2 X reticulated SAE at BigAls in hamilton (in a oddball/returns tank), bunch of chili Rasboras , 6 x CPDs, 5 x nerite snails


















































Refreshing the plants. Over time, I noticed the buffering capacity of the ADA soil has gone down. the R. wallichi suffered and the R. macranda wasn't doing too well either. I was also interested in trying out some Myrophyllium sp. and ended up picking a couple of bunches of red and green varieties from Big Als.










Re-model time



















Overall, I think the plants should definitely liven up and freshen up the tank for me. I am interested to see how they make it in the tank now. Hopefully with the lower bio load, the red species of myriophyllium will keep its color?

Observations: SAE are among my fav fish. I have been searching high and low for the true SAE... sub sp. langei with a particularly broad lateral line that is also thick along the tail. However, I have been unable to track any down. When I found the reticulated SAE, I jumped on it. The Big Als storekeeper was against me purchasing these as algae eaters, but I knew right away that these are C. reticulatus and according to some, better than SAE.

As time passed, the fish put on some size. I lost a couple of my Otos as they actually jumped out the tank through the gaps in the lid. My nephew ran around the living room near the tank after the lights go off and I find these fish to be especially skittish. Unfortunately they paid for it with their lives.

the chili Rasboras were exceptional and very friendly. they were bold fish and did really well in this tank for me. However, after nearly 2 months since I had them and them putting on a bit of size, I lost 6/11 fish all at once due to being stuck in the skimmer. I positioned the skimmer on the opposite side of the tank after a re-model and the fish got sucked in and died  . I also lost 2 CPD as they jumped out of the tank at night. 

As of now, I am left with 3 x Otos, 4 x CPDs, 5 X chilis, 2 x SAE, 8 x Scarlet Badis, 20-30 x cherry shrimp, 10 x Amano , 5 x nerite snails

The bio load is good. I don't need to worry about fish gasping for air overnight. There is sufficient O2 to sustain them until the CO2 and lights come on in the morning + the ADA lily pipes create sufficient surface agitation to help with oxygenation in the tank. I want to re-stock with a couple more Otos, a few more (5) CPDs and some chilis.. but I ran into a fin rot issue with one Scarlet Badis which died in the quarantine tank under medications. As a result, I am extremely wary of attempting to add new livestock without quarantine. So that means, I am trying to set up an auxiliary setup for new livestock to ensure that the new fish are healthy. The goal is to breed my Badis and only time will tell if I can achieve that.

Any tips/comments about the idea to add more livestock..about the current setup is appreciated.  thanks for reading.


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## UsAndThem

Very nice !

What type of rocks did you use and where did you buy them ?


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## planter

That is a seriously nice looking tank


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## hendy8888

I agree! I think an update is in order with some pics.


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## vraev

hendy8888 said:


> I agree! I think an update is in order with some pics.





planter said:


> That is a seriously nice looking tank





UsAndThem said:


> Very nice !
> 
> What type of rocks did you use and where did you buy them ?


Sorry I missed this post guys. Thank you for your nice comments.

The rocks are mini-landscape rock from BigAls in Mississauga.

I have had some ups and downs in the past few months. I changed the livestock a couple times.

I got rid of the CPDs as they were too small of a group and wanted something a bit more flashy. The myriophillium wasn't working as well as I wanted (algae on all leaves underneath the crown) and had to whack it back down.










I also finally returned all the Amanos (2 hid in the rocks and escaped my hunt) and ended up getting 3 more to have a base algae crew.

I also got a new crew of red rainbow fish (P. luminatus) and some clown killis. I lost 6/8 of the killis due to them jumping out. Things were looking good, until I had screwed up with the terrible finicky needle valve on the UNS mini regulator that I am using. I ended up gassing my tank. For 3h the CO2 was going at a speed akin to an airstone. Lost a few shrimp and pretty much the entire algae crew (3 x silver flying foxes, 4 x Otos, 2 x Scarlet Badis, 2 x Rasbora). But surprisingly, the others made it back from the brink of death.










































For now, the tank is back to it's original vision. I am definitely over the layout at this point and want to do a remodel. I am getting some new equipment (new filter, new GLA CO2 regulator, twinstar sterilizer) and definitely want to remodel it with some perspective. In the meanwhile, I do not have any luck with the new batch of Otos and keep loosing them. Unlike the very first batch all of which survived nearly a year until the CO2 gassing.

































VID_20191214_114815 by Varun Anipindi, on Flickr

It is just a lot of work to deal with the livestock transfer and attempt to do a clean reboot. I am also facing a big issue with scuds which probably entered the tank through some plants from the LFS.


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## vraev

Tank was looking pretty good today. Although there is some green dust algae on the glass and it is time for the weekly water change.


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## UsAndThem

vraev said:


> Tank was looking pretty good today. Although there is some green dust algae on the glass and it is time for the weekly water change.


What Camera do you use for your photography ?


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## vraev

For these pics I used my DSLR: Nikon D750 with a macro lens.


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## Digitalfiend

Looking great! Really love that scape. That's disappointing to hear about the Vuppa II as I was really looking into getting one for my 90P. It's $$$ but clean and sexy looking...well, as sexy as a rectangular piece of metal gets.


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## vraev

Digitalfiend said:


> Looking great! Really love that scape. That's disappointing to hear about the Vuppa II as I was really looking into getting one for my 90P. It's $$$ but clean and sexy looking...well, as sexy as a rectangular piece of metal gets.


Thanks. &#128513; Yea.. it's ok... You can live with it and it does do the job. However, powerwise it doesn't really even compare with the eheim. I think the vuppa is good if you always have a clean scape and diligently get rid of any plant matter that might float up. Once that it is done, it will do a decent job at skimming the surface. The eheim is just sheer power and will work through anything. Keep in mind that this may be a good/bad thing: sometimes livestock goes in the skimmer as well and with eheim it is almost impossible for them to keep up to that power.


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## jessesparks

vraev said:


>


Some beautiful shots here man! Fish look incredible as do the plants, i'm jealous.


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## vraev

jessesparks said:


> Some beautiful shots here man! Fish look incredible as do the plants, i'm jealous.


Haha! Thanks man.


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## vraev

Here is an update


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## vraev

I know this is an old thread but I finally ended up taking the tank apart and started a new setup so figured I close this chapter for now.

I lost a lot of the fish slowly either due to disease or them jumping out the tank (Although I feel the dwarf rainbow live only a couple years?)










Once the tank was down to one single lampeye killifish and 2 green tetras, I figured I should finally take it down. Basically as of October 31, 2021, this tank was setup and lasted for nearly 3 years. For the most part, I was pretty satisfied with it, but definitely started getting bored with the layout.

However, I figured I use this tank as a holding tank until I either sell the inhabitants or figure out a plan for my new tank.

One thing led to another and this has now become a bare bottom tank with more fish in it. In fact, these fish are my new favourites. Unfortunately, after having them for nearly 2 months, one of them is showing signs of a parasitic infection. Tried my best to nuke the tank with general cure and supratect.


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## NotYourAvgJoe

Hey mate, what’s the latest 


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## vraev

Hey,

Thanks for your interest. The tank has been taken down. I have moved the fish into an ADA 60F, but it isn't as balanced as I would like it to be. Suffering from lots of stag horn algae, BBA and dying fish. I think it has to do with multiple factors including smaller volume and change in water parameters due to new substrate/hardscape etc. As a temporary scape, I used fluorite black and sand + lava rock. 

I am trying to see if I can salvage it in some way. Unfortunately all the fish didn't survive this move/transition well. 

V


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