# For a good Starter?



## gofigure (May 16, 2011)

My daughter love her new pets but still I felt I need to redo my layout..

Here's my 2 month old setup.

33 gallon
goldfish, pleco, zebra danio
plastic plants, anubias, java fern, wisteria (with a DIY cO2)









_planning to remove the gold fishes(poop machine)._









_plastic plant convering my HOB intake (would really like to replace it with a real one)_









_regular black gravel_


















_replanted the wisteria_

*For a good starter...I need your expert advice/suggestion on:*


What additional plant should I put on my tank with a regular bulb light (stock hagen bulb included when I purchased the canopy)

I would like to have a community (planted) tank, small bright fish that will contrast my black background

Really new to this hobby, I've read a lot of good suggestion from other topics but I really don't know where to start since they have different preferences.

if you have extra fish/plants that you want to get rid off - my tank has a lot of space..=)

Thank you in advance.
Jeff


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## ubr0ke (Jul 12, 2011)

goldfish are pond fish so im glad your getting rid of them..The pleco will outgrow the tank as well...they get huge...the danios is fine...ill suggest a school of rasbora's...

The diy co2 is a good idea in low light tank since it allows for more options with plant types..a low light tank is about the only time ill suggest diy co2..way to unstable for more light..


you have quite a few plant options...if you wanted a carpet plant...use crypt parva, dwarf sag, or chain sword..
for midground plants..anubias, crypts..
and for backgrounds...most stem plants will work...

Overfeed your fish and only do water changes monthly..The plants will use the fish waste and extra fish food for nutrients..buy a bottle of seachem flourish comp...dose that once a week as directed on bottle..

The plants will grow just very slowly...


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## Zortch (Nov 3, 2010)

I can't agree with overfeeding your fish along with monthly water changes - sounds like a good way to grow algae. With slow growing low light plants the algae will likely move in and use the nutrients before your plants can even with DIY co2. Also, extra fish food will lead to ammonia, which is dangerous/deadly to your fish unless you have huge bacterial filtration.


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## ubr0ke (Jul 12, 2011)

plants and algae do not compete for nutrients..they compete for light...
overfeading your fish adds nutrients like nitrates and phosphates for the plants..Your biological media in your filter will convert nh4 to no3.also your substrate will also convert nh4 to no3..the plants will use both nh4 and no3...so no it will not cause algae...
Ill also suggest monthly water changes for a reason...In a low light tank...water changes cause spikes in co2...instable co2 will cause algae..


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## Zortch (Nov 3, 2010)

Where are you getting your information? Plants and algae are definetly in competition for nutrients. You can check out this page if you like:
http://www.liveaquaria.com/general/general.cfm?general_pagesid=65
And I'm sure many many more will say the same or similar.
So yes overfeeding will add nutrients for plants but also for algae, which absorbs nutrients much faster than the plants generally. CO2 is added to allow the plants to use up more of the nutrients faster, however I doubt that the levels achieved from most DIY setups will be sufficient to ward off algae if you are overfeeding as suggested (depends on the system of course). 
Now while it is true that the bacteria in your substrate and filter (after cycled) will convert ammonia into nitrites and then nitrates this is not an instant process. So while the excess ammonia is present from your overfeeding it will be poisoning your fish and if it gets out of hand can lead to death.
Monthly water changes can work in some tanks, but if you are overfeeding leading to higher ammonia and then nitrites and nitrates you will need more frequent water changes (smaller and more often if you like in order to counteract fluctuating CO2 levels) in order to keep the levels of these compounds in check. Notably nitrate which is not removed by your bacterial colonies and can be toxic to fish if left unchecked.
There is some truth in what you are saying and perhaps if carefully calculated a tank could be run in the method you suggest, however it seems to me to be far from an ideal strategy for the fish/plants involved.


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## ubr0ke (Jul 12, 2011)

haha...you have been mislead...that myth has been proven wrong over and over..

I add 20ppm of nitrates, 20ppm potassium and 5ppm of phosphates every second day...And i over feed my fish...I do not have algae...I have low light..

algae's lifecycle starts for different reasons but too much nutrients is not one of them..Low oxygen levels, low nitrates, low phosphates, low or unstable co2, too much light...those are triggers for algae...

you will never control algae by limiting nutrients..its impossible..
you control algae by providing the plants with non limiting nutrients and stable co2...


visit plantedtank.net or barrreport.com...thats where the truth lies...


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## ubr0ke (Jul 12, 2011)

http://fins.actwin.com/aquatic-plants/month.200107/msg00080.htmlread this...it explains how plants and algae do not compete for nutrients..

and thats old...algae competes for light with plants..algae needs energy...it moves around...light is energy...algae needs very little nutrients to survive..plants stunt then die with little nutrients..

plants are superior species..but they need higher nutrients to compete for light or its just wasted energy that goes to algae


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## Zortch (Nov 3, 2010)

Interesting, I stand corrected.
Could you describe your setup? What plants and such? This is an eye opener


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

overfeeding + one PWC a month sounds like a recipe for sky rocketing nitrates.

Of course, the definition of "overfeeding" varies from person to person and depends on the bioload.

Personally, I don't see the need to tell someone to expressly overfeed. If your nitrates are consistently low, then you should get more fish. Who doesn't like more fish?


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## ubr0ke (Jul 12, 2011)

over feeding or more fish...same ish.. the results are the same.
if plant uptake was zero...yes ur nitrates would climb but thats not the case..toxic nitrate levels are anywhere from 300 to 800 ppm for warm water fish species...In a month with no uptake you still wouldnt reach anywhere close.

20 high...1x24watt t5ho..pressurized co2..eheim 2215..ei dosed..plus xtra iron and magnesium.

















The downoi on the right had to be trimmed to fill out the left so just waiting for it grow back..








grown back


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## ppaskova (Apr 27, 2010)

OK. Simple answer to your question, dispate the discussion that is going on.
1. Plants. The easy to grow plants without CO2 and min light (6-8hrs a day are)
a. Slow growing but strong - Criptocorn and Java fern.
b. Fast growing - Hygrophilia polinezia and hygrophilia deformia
Anubis usually attracts algae as it slow growing low sitting plant.
2. Fish. Defiantly remove gold fish as it does not go together with tropical community fish as dinos. Also most plecos intend to grow big unless you have bushy nose one which will grow around 4". With your dinos you need to add fast moving community fish like rummy nose tetras on any other fast tetras. Also you can add cherry or / and yellow barbs which will enlighten your dark fish tank. Or you can add some light colored patties. I personalty prefer guppies but I'm not sure they will be happy with dinos as dinos may nip on their tails.


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## gofigure (May 16, 2011)

wow, i'm learning!, @ll, thank you for your inputs!


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## gofigure (May 16, 2011)

start looking for foreground low light plants..

and eyeing for rasbora's and tetras..


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## Will (Jul 24, 2008)

Well I'd just fill the sides and forground with various Cryptocorynes (greens, browns and reds). They look very nice, are hardier than anything, and will tolerate the goldfish. 

Hardy tetras will need to be chosen to compete with the godlfish and the gluttonous danios.


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## gofigure (May 16, 2011)

Will Hayward said:


> Well I'd just fill the sides and forground with various Cryptocorynes (greens, browns and reds). They look very nice, are hardier than anything, and will tolerate the goldfish.
> 
> Hardy tetras will need to be chosen to compete with the godlfish and the gluttonous danios.


Thanks Will, will it hold on gravel? I just have those regular black ones.

and all GF will definitely move to another tank..


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## Will (Jul 24, 2008)

Crypts will do fine in gravel yes. They wont spread as fast as in sand, so you'd be best to divide clumps into individual sprouts and spread them out.


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## gofigure (May 16, 2011)

just a quick question, I had this hagen canopy with a regular incandescent bulb,










is there any way that I can upgrade it to fluorescent bulb? the bulb casing on the canopy is detachable though. Decent enough to light up the side corners of my tank or the whole the itself- which my current light illuminates only on the center.


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## Will (Jul 24, 2008)

Either replace the whole canopy/light all together with a new one of any brand with fluorescent fixture. (compatible size pending)

Or find a Hagen fluorescent fixture of the same size as your incandescent one. Need to go to a Hagen retailer.

At the lery least it would be better to try some screw-in coil compact fluorescents that are plant spectrum. Depending on the bulb/fixture, they may not fit.


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## gofigure (May 16, 2011)

i got this on the web...at BA's










thanks again!....


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## ubr0ke (Jul 12, 2011)

just switch the bulbs that came with the incandescent...replace with 6500k spiral found at any store...on the socket where you plug the bulbs in...in small print should say the maximum wattage allowed...it should be 20 watt i believe...

the flourencent fixture you showed would also work but no need to buy anything if you havent already..

as for crypts...they are root feeders...most aquatic plants are not and will take nutrients from the water collumn..crypts like a rich substrate...pick up some root tabs...place them around the crypts...If you can find osmocote plus at a hardware store then use that instead of root tabs...its a much cheaper option with the better results...but it can be hard to find in Canada...


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## gofigure (May 16, 2011)

ubr0ke said:


> just switch the bulbs that came with the incandescent...replace with 6500k spiral found at any store...on the socket where you plug the bulbs in...in small print should say the maximum wattage allowed...it should be 20 watt i believe...


Thanks, how do I know the "k" kelvin?, I have some in my house but the box says lumens, daylight and watts only

grab this on the net..

1500 K Candlelight
2680 K 40 W incandescent lamp
3000 K 200 W incandescent lamp
3200 K Sunrise/sunset
3400 K Tungsten lamp
3400 K 1 hour from dusk/dawn
5000-4500 K	Xenon lamp/light arc
5500 K Sunny daylight around noon
5500-5600 K	Electronic photo flash
6500-7500 K	Overcast sky
9000-12000 K	Blue sky


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## Zortch (Nov 3, 2010)

Look for a "daylight" bulb. They are generally 6400k.


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## gofigure (May 16, 2011)

Zortch said:


> Look for a "daylight" bulb. They are generally 6400k.


thanks, tested a spiral bulb 9 watts cool light and it dramatically changed the lighting, might drop by at canadian tire to get the daylight bulb.


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## ppaskova (Apr 27, 2010)

gofigure said:


> thanks, tested a spiral bulb 9 watts cool light and it dramatically changed the lighting, might drop by at canadian tire to get the daylight bulb.


OK. Here is simple and cheap solution that I have been using for a year and all my plants grow like crazy with this light And I have Java fern, Amazon Sword, Winowlow, Cript, Anubis, Hygrophilia deformia, Thai hygrophilia.
Go to Home Depot and buy Philips daylight screw-in coil compact fluorescents they are 9W and 6500K. And keep your lights on from 6-8hrs a day (no more to avoid algae, no less for plants to grow). How many your canopy can fit in ? You need for low light plants at list 1W per gallon. So in total you will need 33W of daylight light at minimum. If your tank can fit only two of them, go to BA and buy 2 Hagen daylight ones that are 15W each.


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## gofigure (May 16, 2011)

@ppaskova - Thanks, I can fit two and I assumed 25 watts each? or does it mean in total?, hopefully I can find a higher 15w daylight bulb at least to get the 33W.


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## ppaskova (Apr 27, 2010)

gofigure said:


> @ppaskova - Thanks, I can fit two and I assumed 25 watts each? or does it mean in total?, hopefully I can find a higher 15w daylight bulb at least to get the 33W.


The highest daylight screw-in I have ever seen is a Hagen 15W each in BAs. Check if Pet Smart or local BAs if they have higher ones or buy those in BA and you may be OK


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## george (Apr 11, 2009)

Check how many watts your fixture supports. Mine looks exactly like that and supports 2x15W so I put 2x 13W daylight bulbs from Philips. Too bright I think.


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## adrenaline (Jan 17, 2011)

Might i suggest the Coralife actinic/daylight 50/50 bulbs? they are standard screw in compact flourescent bulbs. My girlfriend uses them in her 10 gallon. she replaced the stock incandescent bulbs with them, and MASSIVE difference. plants thrive with them. I have daylight/actinic bulbs in all my tanks and they look spectacular. 

If you used a daylight with full spectrum (white and pink) you see more earth tones. My personal preference is the daylight and actinic (white and blue)

you may want to check out your local big als store and take a look at some of the lighting they have on display to get an idea of what you like.


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## gofigure (May 16, 2011)

adrenaline said:


> Might i suggest the Coralife actinic/daylight 50/50 bulbs? they are standard screw in compact flourescent bulbs. My girlfriend uses them in her 10 gallon. she replaced the stock incandescent bulbs with them, and MASSIVE difference. plants thrive with them. I have daylight/actinic bulbs in all my tanks and they look spectacular.
> 
> If you used a daylight with full spectrum (white and pink) you see more earth tones. My personal preference is the daylight and actinic (white and blue)
> 
> you may want to check out your local big als store and take a look at some of the lighting they have on display to get an idea of what you like.


BAs is too far from where I live, will look at PJ's if they have this...thanks


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## gofigure (May 16, 2011)

went to canadian tire and found this, will this work? I think it's $7.99 or less


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## ubr0ke (Jul 12, 2011)

yea thats perfect..


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