# Tonina Fluviatilis



## Plant Crazy (Mar 24, 2006)

Holocron: your avatar shows a pic of a Tonina species I believe? Have you ever gotten it to grow in your tank? I've tried several times, but have found that it always 'melts away' after a few weeks. I heard that it likes soft water, and an acidic substrate; neither of which I have, unfortunately. Many of the ADA substrates are acidic, and apparently good for growing Tonina.


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## holocron (Mar 12, 2006)

yeah thats Tonina fluviatilis. It's the only tonina I was able to grow OK in my tank. I tried tonina sp. belem and it tried to grow, but essentially did nothing.

You need a acidic substrate you are right. What you can do is when you put your substrate together put a thin layer of peat on the bottom with a small small amount of carbon and then layer your normal gravel/flourite on top of it. This will keep the PH of your gravel down. A nutrient rich substrate is key, so flourite, ADA, onyx sand, eco complete, something along those lines.

I was thinking of injecting some ferts right into the substrate under certain plants, but I haven't done it yet. who knows, might work.

I put peat in my cannister filter to lower my KH to 3, which apparently tonina prefers (3 and under). Above that and it will just melt.

couple picts. You can actually see the tonina sp. belem behind the fluviatilis... green but did nothing.


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## Plant Crazy (Mar 24, 2006)

Wow!! Those are some darn impressive pics of Tonina fluvitalis. I've purchased it several times from Menagerie, however it has always melted away. I have been told that you practically need to make a species tank in order to grow it well.

But, based on your pics of Tonina fluvitalis, you seem to have mastered it! Are you only using peat in your filter, or have you also layered peat and carbon in your substrate? How well do other plant species favour in that tank? Are you also using CO2 injection?


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## holocron (Mar 12, 2006)

I am using DIY co2, so its shakey at best. PH readings go up and down.

I don't know about a species tank, but you definitely need a lot of factors to be in line. Tonina fluvitalis is probably the easiest tonina to grow (at least in my exp). I just used peat in my filter no under substrate peat. To get the sp. belem to grow you would need something like the ADA substrate along with extremely soft water (kh 1-3).

The tonina F. that I had grew, but never branched, so I had to cut the tops and replant. It got fairly annoying so I gave up on it.


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## ranmasatome (Mar 14, 2006)

since we have access to all, if not most, of the available species of toninas and Eriocaulon in the market now.. people here have species tank for these as their requirements are quite similar...most success comes from folks using ADA laced with their powersand special. With that system.. its like a small kid trying to grow hygrophilia. It still works though with other alternative systems..
Get your ph down low.. that is essential.. with the low ph in the water already here..ADA gets our ph down to as low as 4 or 5 on a big tank and about 6 on a small tank. check the ph of your local water system. it should be able to bring your ph down about 2-3 max.
i've also grown these on plain inert lapis sand... but it takes more effort.


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## chompy (Mar 24, 2006)

Plant Crazy, next time you buy one and it melts away leave it in the tank for a little bit longer. Often plants get shocked and melt away, but they grow back unharmed. Maybe your taking it out to soon. Just a thaught though, don't know if that is the case with this species.


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## ranmasatome (Mar 14, 2006)

the plant literally melts to bits.. there is nothing left to leave in the tank. It isnt like cryptocoryne either.. where it has root storage to recover form the melt.


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## Plant Crazy (Mar 24, 2006)

It seems that either an acidic substrate (ADA substrate + ADA powersand), or an acidic water (via peat in the filter) will promote the growth of tonina. I'm sure that using both would help even better. The acidic substrate is not an option for me, since I've already invested lots of $$$ for a 100% flourite substrate, and I'm beyond the point of being able to put peat into the substrate. However, peat in the filter sounds easy to do, and I may give it a try.


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## ranmasatome (Mar 14, 2006)

There are these gel sacs that you can get over here that are directly shipped from japan.. apparently they lower the ph even more but not thru the convntional means... lots of the crystal red shrimp breeders here use it.. i dont know what for.


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## holocron (Mar 12, 2006)

it'll bring the PH down to 2-3??? plants can actually grow in acid?



ranmasatome said:


> Get your ph down low.. that is essential.. with the low ph in the water already here..ADA gets our ph down to as low as 4 or 5 on a big tank and about 6 on a small tank. check the ph of your local water system. it should be able to bring your ph down about 2-3 max.
> i've also grown these on plain inert lapis sand... but it takes more effort.


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## ranmasatome (Mar 14, 2006)

no... it should bring your ph down by 2-3 max.. so if you have ph of 11 it'll bring it down to about 8-9.


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## Plant Crazy (Mar 24, 2006)

Ranmasatome, we're very jealous that you have easy access to ADA stuff!
I'm amazed the the ADA substrate with powersand can drop your tank's pH so much! pH 4 to 5 sounds really low... almost too low for fish, or plants for that matter.


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## ranmasatome (Mar 14, 2006)

Nope. not if you're a small tetra collector like me..
i just sent a bunch out so their mug shots can be taken.. will post soon.

Err.. dont feel jelous.. i'll see what i can do to help to get you guys some...if you want them..
but there are other gravels that work fine too.. so there no real need.. its not like magic sand you know..


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## EDGE (May 20, 2006)

Acidic substrate is not the important factor with tonina and eriocaulon sp. My water was at pH 5.8 with plain gravel and they did not grow well at all. Tonina and eriocaulon sp need a very rich porous substrate or high nutrients in the water column with low K. Funny enough, I had them growing really well in flourite onyx mixed. The water was at gH 5 and kH 5. I switched to plain gravel because I was sick of all the water change to keep the buffering low. Tonina started dying after switching to plain gravel. a matured (aged) flourite substrate will grow tonina sp really well.


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