# Cleaning and noob questions



## ScarletFire (Nov 4, 2012)

I have some very noob questions, but important because I don't want to ruin any more equipment.

1. Can the black part of the AC filter get wet? I was cleaning some used filters, and I put the whole thing into water having this belief that everything made for aquariums are waterproof, then had an afterthought of huh, but the HOB filter never enters the water anyway. Did I just ruin a filter?

2. Would bleach used to clean HOBs be okay, or would vinegar be good enough? 

3. Is it okay to clean a powerhead with a vinegar solution? Or just use water? 

4. To clean a tank, does vinegar and water suffice, or is bleach better?


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

The motor should not be in water as far as I know, I have taken off the motors to be able to clean inside where the impeller goes and have run water in it and some would have gotten over it. Just don't submerge it, getting splashed a bit is fine. It might be ok to submerge it but I don't think so.

bleach on HOB's, if this is a new to you used filter, then yes, it should be ok to use bleach,m I have done it myself. If it is a filter you have been using yourself for a while, do not clean it with bleach as it will kill all of your good bacteria. Bleach is only for sterilizing a used HOB to be safe.

vinegar should be just fine for a powerhead, just rinse well. A small amount of vinegar in your tank is safe. I use a solution of distilled water and vinegar to clean the outside of my tanks, if a tiny bit gets in the tanks, its ok.

cleaning a tank, bleach is good to use to sterilize a new to you used tank. Vinegar is very good for helping remove hard water stains.

NOTE, if you use bleach to clean a tank or anything else, make sure you rinse the hell out of it and then fill the aquarium and use twice the normal declorinator to make sure all the bleach is gone. your normal declorinator, the stuff you use to make tap water safe removes bleach, just remember to use twice the normal amount. If you clean a HOB with bleach, submerge it in a container of twice normal declorinator and also run the filter in double declorinator to make sure you get it all.

Hope this helps


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## ppaskova (Apr 27, 2010)

pyrrolin said:


> NOTE, if you use bleach to clean a tank or anything else, make sure you rinse the hell out of it and then fill the aquarium and use twice the normal declorinator to make sure all the bleach is gone. your normal declorinator, the stuff you use to make tap water safe removes bleach, just remember to use twice the normal amount. If you clean a HOB with bleach, submerge it in a container of twice normal declorinator and also run the filter in double declorinator to make sure you get it all.


I also use baking soda to kill bleach. After bleaching my tanks / filters I put them (filters) in the container with baking soda and water or put water and baking soda in my tank after bleaching it.


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## BillD (Jun 5, 2006)

Dechlor will neutralize the bleach almost instantly. Vinegar will also neutralize bleach, since it is an acid and bleach is a base. 1:10 should be good and is better for cleaning a tank than vinegar. Vinegar is good for removing mineral deposits, which bleach won't.


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

BillD said:


> Dechlor will neutralize the bleach almost instantly. *Vinegar will also neutralize bleach, since it is an acid and bleach is a base.* 1:10 should be good and is better for cleaning a tank than vinegar. Vinegar is good for removing mineral deposits, which bleach won't.


*DO NOT* attempt the above.

Chlorine gas will be released.


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

so it will neutralize the bleach and any people nearby?


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## nightowl1350 (Mar 19, 2006)

You don't say the size of the tank, but if you can take it to a sink or your tub and rinse it well, start at the top of one side and run a small stream of water, dump, turn to another side and keep repeating till there is no chlorine smell.

If you need to put the fish back in then use a bit of extra dechlorinator, if not and you set the tank up let it run for 3 or 4 days before you introduce any fish to it and the chlorine should be gone so long as you have rinsed well.

Don't think it is wise to get the motor of you hob wet, but if you did let it dry out and plug it back in.


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

+1 for not mixing bleach and acids.. I have experienced this, up close and personally. It is nasty, nasty gas. I was very, very lucky. If you are unfortunate, it can be fatal, or do serious, permananent damage to the lungs. 

A ten percent bleach solution is a good all purpose disinfectant and cleaner, and thorough rinsing removes it pretty well. If you allow the item to air dry afterward, any remaining chlorine likely will gas off. 

Chlorine is very volatile, which is why we used to be able to leave our water out for a couple of days to get rid of it instead of using dechlorinator products. But now tap water has a lot more in it than just chlorine. So using one of products that dechlorinates will ensure that any that might be left will be neutralized.

If you submerged your AC filter motor for any great length of time, you may have ruined it. But I'd allow it to dry out for a few days, and then try plugging it in. I'd suggest using a GFI receptacle for this, if you have access to one, just in case, it will save blowing a fuse or tripping a breaker. If it works, great. If not, replacements are available for Aqua Clears and don't cost an arm and a leg. They all use the same motor, just different impellers for each model. You might well be able to find a used one to replace it with.


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

pyrrolin said:


> so it will neutralize the bleach and any people nearby?


Yes.

In all seriousness though, don't mix bleach and acids together. Don't mix bleach and ammonia together either.


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## BillD (Jun 5, 2006)

Darkblade48 said:


> Don't mix bleach and ammonia together either.


This one I am curious about. We see this warning often. Both are bases, and the water plant does exactly that to get chloramine.
I should have been a little clearer, as I wasn't advocate the mixing of bleach and vinegar. I do use water with vinegar to neutralize the bleach on decapsulated brine shrimp cysts.


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

BillD said:


> This one I am curious about. We see this warning often. Both are bases, and the water plant does exactly that to get chloramine.
> I should have been a little clearer, as I wasn't advocate the mixing of bleach and vinegar. I do use water with vinegar to neutralize the bleach on decapsulated brine shrimp cysts.


Mixing ammonia into a solution containing hypochlorite (which bleach essentially is) will result in nucleophilic attack of the OCl anion by ammonia, resulting in chloramine formation. It is a colourless gas, which is toxic.

You might also get some hydrazine formation if the two are mixed, which again, is toxic.

Finally, for neutralization of bleach on decapsulated brine shrimp, I would not recommend you neutralize with vinegar, as it can generate small amounts of chlorine gas.

Instead, just use dechlorinator.


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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

Exellent info guys. I picked up a few tips too.
I usually microwave my media for 10-15 sec too. Just make sure there is no metal in it. Also, the smell is really nasty, so make sure your wife is not around when you do it.

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## ppaskova (Apr 27, 2010)

After bleaching my tanks and or filters / hitters I always put them in the water with baking soda for 24hrs. I never had issues with fish or shrimps in those tanks with those components.


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

Zebrapl3co said:


> Exellent info guys. I picked up a few tips too.
> I usually microwave my media for 10-15 sec too. Just make sure there is no metal in it. Also, the smell is really nasty, so make sure your wife is not around when you do it.


How does this work?

I could microwave a solution of copper sulfate and I bet you nothing would happen.



ppaskova said:


> After bleaching my tanks and or filters / hitters I always put them in the water with baking soda for 24hrs. I never had issues with fish or shrimps in those tanks with those components.


This is likely the residual chlorine from the bleach evaporating with time. The baking soda doesn't really do anything.

Though if you mix bleach with baking soda, it does become a slightly better whitener. A good tip the next time you need to get a stain out of your whites


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## Symplicity (Oct 14, 2011)

Prime should neutralize if you use bleach. I would stay away from bleach. No matter how many times you rinse, you must use other chemicals to off-set the bleach.


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

Symplicity said:


> Prime should neutralize if you use bleach. I would stay away from bleach. No matter how many times you rinse, you must use other chemicals to off-set the bleach.


If you rinse a bleached aquarium well, and then let it air off (for a few days to a week), there will be no more residual bleach.

Hypochlorite is unstable by nature, and readily releases chlorine, so it will eventually off gas.

The residual that is left behind is just salt (sodium chloride).


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

Darkblade48 said:


> If you rinse a bleached aquarium well, and then let it air off (for a few days to a week), there will be no more residual bleach.
> 
> Hypochlorite is unstable by nature, and readily releases chlorine, so it will eventually off gas.
> 
> The residual that is left behind is just salt (sodium chloride).


Which is exactly what my Dad always said when I was a teenager and worried about using bleach to clean my tanks. Chemical engineer vs. smart ass kid, but he was right. I lost him when I was 16, but some of that stuff he taught me will stay with me all my days.


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

Fishfur said:


> Which is exactly what my Dad always said when I was a teenager and worried about using bleach to clean my tanks. Chemical engineer vs. smart ass kid, but he was right. I lost him when I was 16, but some of that stuff he taught me will stay with me all my days.


It is strange how my minor in chemistry gets more of a workout in this hobby than my specialization in microbiology 

Maybe I picked the wrong field to go into


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

that is odd, in theory it should be the other way around.


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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

Darkblade48 said:


> How does this work?
> 
> I could microwave a solution of copper sulfate and I bet you nothing would happen.


Copper sulfate solution? probably not, but I've micro wave a metal can before. Nothing big happened, just lots of sparks and a few burst of fire. Can't use the micro wave afterward though. It has this tingy metal smell and burn marks afterward. But suposedly, it's a fire hazard if you try to microwave something with metal in it.
Anyway, back to why I do that to the media. It's to kill off anykind of bacteria and virus in the media. Any kind of disease bacteria cysts will be zapped. 
I also zap my dish cloth sometimes. It will kill off any kind of bacteria and virus in it.

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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

This is sort of OT, but I zap dishcloths too. Works well. 
My latest nuker is a dual microwave/convection oven. It has metal racks that can be left inside while the microwave function is used, with all stainless steel interior. I once put some butter in to soften, but didn't think to remove the foil wrapper. Saw a tiny spark or two, nothing happened to the machine and the butter stayed cold.

Another time I put a glass tea pot in there to heat water, not thinking about the handle. Plastic handle fastened to a SS band around the pot body with a metal screw. Very shortly there was a strong stench of burning plastic ! It melted and bubbled where the screw attached the band to the handle. I didn't see sparks, though there probably were some. Ruined the plastic handle but the glass didn't crack.

But dishes that have gold or silver leaf decorations are not good. Saw some fancy sparking when I accidentally used a silver rimmed plate one day ! No damage done, but a bit nerve wracking to see.

I've seen some demos where a ball of steel wool is placed inside a microwave. With that you get very fancy fireworks and loads of sparking, but the metal does not go up in flames as such, it just burns. Ruins the microwave for future use because it damages the part that generates the microwaves. Forget what they call that thing.


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

Zebrapl3co said:


> Copper sulfate solution? probably not, but I've micro wave a metal can before. Nothing big happened, just lots of sparks and a few burst of fire. Can't use the micro wave afterward though. It has this tingy metal smell and burn marks afterward. But suposedly, it's a fire hazard if you try to microwave something with metal in it.
> Anyway, back to why I do that to the media. It's to kill off anykind of bacteria and virus in the media. Any kind of disease bacteria cysts will be zapped.
> I also zap my dish cloth sometimes. It will kill off any kind of bacteria and virus in it.


Ahaaaaa, I just re-read your post. I thought it said "Just to make sure there is no metal in it" and I was wondering how a microwave could eliminate metal ions!  Now it all makes sense.

Off topic, but sometimes metal is placed into the microwave on purpose to help heat food. Think about some microwave dinners, popcorn, etc. that have a thin metal film to help disperse the heat evenly.

And microwaving media to kill off bacteria/viruses is a an interesting idea, but wouldn't you be killing off beneficial bacteria at the same time?



Fishfur said:


> Ruins the microwave for future use because it damages the part that generates the microwaves. Forget what they call that thing.


A magnetron


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

Thanks Anthony.. I thought maybe that was it but was not sure enough to write it down.


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

A magnetron [/QUOTE]

Thanks Anthony.. I thought maybe that was it but was not sure enough to write it down.

And I'd never use those metallized films used by frozen packagers. They're meant to give 'crispy' results to nuked frozen foods, but there's a ton of plastic involved and too much of the plastic transfers into the food. I can taste it.. so I avoid those like the plague.

Bad enough we've become so used to plastic, but it's not the best invention we ever came up with, even if it does make some things more convenient than they used to be, I think we're paying a much heavier price for the convenience than we know.


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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

Darkblade48 said:


> Ahaaaaa, I just re-read your post. I thought it said "Just to make sure there is no metal in it" and I was wondering how a microwave could eliminate metal ions!  Now it all makes sense.
> ...


Heh, ops, my fault, I never read what I type.

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## Playing God (Dec 13, 2012)

Darkblade48 said:


> *DO NOT* attempt the above.
> 
> Chlorine gas will be released.


(referring to mixing vinegar and bleach)

I'm not one to downplay truly dangerous situations, but for what it's worth, we were exposed to chlorine gas as part of our training in the military (multiple times) and while it stings, it's a bit dramatic to suggest permanent damage or death as the result of exposure. 
You're not going to be pumping this stuff into your house or manufacturing it in any great quantity to hurt yourself (unless you have a previous condition like asthma that may intensify things).

Obviously, there are probably better ways to get the job done anyway, I just don't want people overly fearful of a reaction that's not likely to do anything other make you sneeze or cough unless you're making so much Cl gas that the air is foggy (or you stick your head in the bucket).


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

You might not say that if you'd been there the day I used bleach to clean up where my cat peed on the floor. She was, if you will forgive the pun, really pissed at me and this was her way of letting me know. I used regular laundry bleach, full strength, poured some on the urine puddle. Mom used to use bleach when she washed diapers, which is why I tried it, never thinking about the acid/bleach thing. 
The instant the bleach hit the puddle, it bubbled up and the next breath I took made me feel as though my throat was closing up. Burned the inside of my nostrils, yes, but what was frightening was that it also made it very hard to breathe. My throat became very irritated for a few days and I had some minor trouble breathing for a couple of days afterward as well. And I don't have asthma.. if I did, it could have been worse.
Cat urine is very acidic and quite concentrated, which is the reason the reaction was so strong. But you can get a less dramatic version of the same reaction if you mix dish washing liquid and bleach too, and that one is from personal experience as well. Who knew dishwashing liquid was acidic ? I certainly didn't, not until I smelled that gas again.

I had to pour quite a bit of water on the pee/bleach puddle to stop the bubbling and gas generation. I agree, people should not panic over this, but imho, it is far better to be safe than sorry, and I for one would never risk mixing any acid with bleach nor ammonia either.


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## Playing God (Dec 13, 2012)

Your reaction pretty much matches mine to the stuff. The biggest difference (aside from concentration possibly) was that i was EXPECTING a reaction every time, whereas you were not--and it's definitely not a pleasant surprise!



Fishfur said:


> You might not say that if you'd been there the day I used bleach to clean up where my cat peed on the floor. She was, if you will forgive the pun, really pissed at me and this was her way of letting me know. I used regular laundry bleach, full strength, poured some on the urine puddle. Mom used to use bleach when she washed diapers, which is why I tried it, never thinking about the acid/bleach thing.
> The instant the bleach hit the puddle, it bubbled up and the next breath I took made me feel as though my throat was closing up. Burned the inside of my nostrils, yes, but what was frightening was that it also made it very hard to breathe. My throat became very irritated for a few days and I had some minor trouble breathing for a couple of days afterward as well. And I don't have asthma.. if I did, it could have been worse.
> Cat urine is very acidic and quite concentrated, which is the reason the reaction was so strong. But you can get a less dramatic version of the same reaction if you mix dish washing liquid and bleach too, and that one is from personal experience as well. Who knew dishwashing liquid was acidic ? I certainly didn't, not until I smelled that gas again.
> 
> I had to pour quite a bit of water on the pee/bleach puddle to stop the bubbling and gas generation. I agree, people should not panic over this, but imho, it is far better to be safe than sorry, and I for one would never risk mixing any acid with bleach nor ammonia either.


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

That's for sure.. not pleasant at all. I'd worry for anyone who did have compromised lung function though, asthma or COPD, anything of that sort.


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