# Your Dream Aquarium Store?



## Ciddian (Mar 15, 2006)

So.... Everyone always says what they don't like about a LFS

If you had the cash to run one what would you do? Where would you put it???

Friendly discussion only please. Meanie-face posts will be deleted.


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## trailblazer295 (Mar 7, 2010)

Free fish if you drive from the boonies lol


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## mandarin (Apr 8, 2010)

Maybe something a little like THIS 

THIS is nice as well, very professional looking.


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## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

Maidenhead Aquatics in the UK has it figure *out*

All their fish look as good as if not better than if they'd been in a hobbyists tank for five or six months. If it isn't perfect, they won't sell it. If you can't prove you know what you're doing, they won't sell it. If you don't have a six foot high current very warm tank for clown loaches, you can't buy them.

Everything is sectioned (plecos, loaches, gouramis).


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## Fish_Man (Apr 9, 2010)

mandarin said:


> Maybe something a little like THIS
> 
> THIS is nice as well, very professional looking.


I like the first one!!


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## Windowlicka (Mar 5, 2008)

AquariAM said:


> Maidenhead Aquatics in the UK has it figure *out*


Lol! This place used to be one of our regular haunts back home! (They were only in Maidenhead then though, and certainly didn't have "100 stores")


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## CanadaPleco (Sep 7, 2009)

trailblazer295 said:


> Free fish if you drive from the boonies lol


Whooo that means free fish for me.....

Trailblazer I would hardly consider Markham the boonies 

http://www.greenwichaquaria.com/store.html -> this is unbelievable! simply stunning! I want my fishroom to look like this


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## trailblazer295 (Mar 7, 2010)

LOL true but that's what most people from Toronto call it, at least the ones I know. Though Haliburton is a lot smaller, I didn't even know you guys had a fish store.


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

http://www.b-boxaquarium.com/

They have some preeeeety fishies.


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## TBemba (Jan 11, 2010)

Sunrise Tropical

Place in California, I would like to visit one day 

I take that back I would like to work at this one Coral Fish Hawaii

It's in freakin Hawaii


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## trailblazer295 (Mar 7, 2010)

Anyone ever go to a fish store like that?


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## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

trailblazer295 said:


> Anyone ever go to a fish store like that?


In Hawaii? No. But I've been to Hawaii. Twice. And you really really don't want to leave. It's pretty ridiculous. I think they have more random lizards running around on the sidewalk than we have pigeons.


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## Mr Fishies (Sep 21, 2007)

CanadaPleco said:


> http://www.greenwichaquaria.com/store.html -> this is unbelievable! simply stunning! I want my fishroom to look like this


It is a sight to behold, but can you imagine the cost of doing that place up like that - and maintaining it? Even feeder fish must cost $5 a piece there to cover the overhead!


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## trailblazer295 (Mar 7, 2010)

AquariAM said:


> In Hawaii? No. But I've been to Hawaii. Twice. And you really really don't want to leave. It's pretty ridiculous. I think they have more random lizards running around on the sidewalk than we have pigeons.


I meant more so any of the links posted so far. They are all very nice set ups.


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## bigfishy (Jun 19, 2009)

Across Scarborough Big Als and JDM style store with clean water, healthy fish, and dirt cheap price. I am sure it will knock down Big Als in no time

 

As for the supplier, I will be supporting myself thru my fish farm in China and Hong Kong ^^

Instead of a hot dog stand, I will have a fish store stand! Cheap in rent! profitable business! 

JDM = Japanese Domestic Market

JDM style = a lot of fish pack into a small tank and they are healthy with clean water


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## Fish_Man (Apr 9, 2010)

bigfishy said:


> Across Scarborough Big Als and JDM style store with clean water, healthy fish, and dirt cheap price. I am sure it will knock down Big Als in no time
> 
> 
> 
> ...


ooo I must go visit this JDM, where is the exact location?


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## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

Fish_Man said:


> ooo I must go visit this JDM, where is the exact location?


Really dude? 
This entire thread is hypothetical.


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## Fish_Man (Apr 9, 2010)

AquariAM said:


> Really dude?
> This entire thread is hypothetical.


ya really I plan on going today.. lol

make it where Canada computers is and I'll drop by


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## TBemba (Jan 11, 2010)

I think this post was to be more along the lines of how you would set up a store. kind of fish you would have in it. type of system for tanks, type of equipment sold. etc...

I on the other hand would like to set up a club.

Rules of Fish Club

1. We have a pretty big warehouse
2. We have wall to wall tanks
3. we have in all the rare and desirable fish in the world 
4. we have a small staff running the store
5. we buy food/fish/equipment in bulk
6. we have yearly membership fees (pays of all the fish stuff)

How it works
1. Not open to public members only
2. run by board of governors elected
3. runs like a fish store / rent a movie store
4. member pays 100% setup fee for first tank Membership cost
5. you can return the fish you have and get new ones
6. This could be both SW and FW

Scenario: I walk in get 90 gallon tank all the trimming to set up the tank and the fish I want ( must prove you can keep fish ) 

Next month I don't want the fish I have so I go and trade them in on some fish I do want. (free or small exchange rate)

Next year I decide I want a 150 gallon tank I get a service (membership has moving van for delivery and pickups) I exchange the 90 for the 150 (I pay a small fee for exchange)

I could say in 6 months I want to go smaller like 20 gallon so I switch it up again. This time I want it to be sw.

Membership would be some what expensive a monthly fee (like rogers cable)

One step further deluxe package is someone comes to your house once a week and services your tank checks up on fish or does the complete tank change you request.

You could have like a geek squad that you call that can trouble shoot your tank. Kinda over the top but maybe a web cam on your tank so some support could be done remote. (computer store concept)

Like dog walker could have tank keeper. you go away for weeks on business. Member comes over looks after your tank. members could even trouble shoot each others issues. 

You do work for the club it will reflect on you membership (reduced if you do tech support) ( reduced if you work at the warehouse) ( reduced if you do tank sitting) Some members would not want to do any work but would pay via membership more.

As tanks and equipment get older it can be sold to members or public to liquidate assets and buy new assets (club) would always be up to date on new products and equipment. club could conduct surveys for Producers (Fluval) for free or greatly reduced product Price) Club would write reviews.


This is just an idea (investors may Pm me )


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## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

TBemba said:


> I think this post was to be more along the lines of how you would set up a store. kind of fish you would have in it. type of system for tanks, type of equipment sold. etc...
> 
> I on the other hand would like to set up a club.
> 
> ...


 It's a grotesque over complication of acquiring fish and supplies in my opinion.
You'd never have enough volume of 'members' to support the rent for the place. 
People already have this figured out IMO. Darius brings in nice malawi and tang stuff in northwest TO. That Bradley guy (used to) have one of the best cichlid stores in Ontario in his basement. There's a guy in Northern Ontario who sells A grade tanganyikans at insanely low prices and comes to Toronto once a month or so. People meet him in a parking lot on Kennedy.


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## TBemba (Jan 11, 2010)

AquariAM said:


> It's a grotesque over complication of acquiring fish and supplies in my opinion.
> You'd never have enough volume of 'members' to support the rent for the place.
> People already have this figured out IMO. Darius brings in nice malawi and tang stuff in northwest TO. That Bradley guy (used to) have one of the best cichlid stores in Ontario in his basement. There's a guy in Northern Ontario who sells A grade tanganyikans at insanely low prices and comes to Toronto once a month or so. People meet him in a parking lot on Kennedy.


I sometimes wonder if what the internet with for "sale sites" and independent fish brokers and fish food/equipment sellers do to the LFS ? Will all the overhead places like BA's has I am surprised they can stay in business. 10 times worse for small independent stores like (Frank's) an example.


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2010)

TBemba said:


> I think this post was to be more along the lines of how you would set up a store. kind of fish you would have in it. type of system for tanks, type of equipment sold. etc...
> 
> I on the other hand would like to set up a club.
> 
> ...


I can see why this is in the jokes n' funny links.

Investors... more like money launderers

to get a big fish store running, stocked, and have enough to keep it stocked is more than a few million shamoleys

southern ontario is littered with the carcasses of failed attempts.


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## Darkside (Sep 14, 2009)

My dream aquarium store would stock all the fish I wanted and sell them to me at a good price. They would also hold all the fish I wanted specifically for me. Most importantly, they'd convince the wife to let me have more fish tanks.


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## trailblazer295 (Mar 7, 2010)

I think the last part is beyond the control of any fish store. I think you want genie or something instead.


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## Abner (Apr 7, 2009)

*I should comment too*

I thought long and hard about this but still couldn't come up with a plan to open and maintain a fish store lol...but hypothetically i think the best way is to use all of you guys to help with setting up tanks and plumbing lol i'm sure almost everyone on here would love to jump into a big project like that. Wouldn't go with a too large fish room something along the lines of big als scarborough without the maze feeling so my customers are always in sight just in case they need help. I don't think i would want all the tanks on the same system don't want one sick fish to contaminate a whole section although could solve that with a system for quarantine which opens up a whole new can of worms. i think the most fun part of my make believe store is that i get to open a store in st.lucia so i can get a permit to harvest livestock down there..get to go and stay home for a couple months to "work" scuba diving in my native waters lol...ok who wants in!!


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## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

IMO, the most reasonable way to do this is to start up in your basement. Breed something that breeds easily and has a high small size resale value, like leleupi. Breed batches of 50, then when you can afford 2 tanks breed batches of 100, then 200, 400, etc. Once you have enough guaranteed customers and are bringing in $1000 every couple of months, add another species, and so forth. Eventually you have a business-sized venture going with less overhead. If you feel so inclined you can go commercial with it, while still supplying 50%+ of your stock from your basement, again reducing costs. If your commercial venture fails, you can still fall back on the basement venture and sell directly out of it again.. with some significant debts to pay off. 
I know of several people who have gone this route. I think the most reasonable thing to do is to stay at the well developed basement stage, and if you want to work at a fish store, try to get a job at one and work your way up to manager or something. 

I honestly think that with Big Al's in the picture, it is not possible to run a profitable LFS privately in Toronto unless one of the ones running right now were to retire (ie, NAFB/Aqua Tropics). The market's just really saturated. I think you'd have to do something like Menagerie, and sell a bit of everything, to maintain profitability. In Markham, Mississauga, Thornhill, stuff like that, I think there's still enough sparcity of private LFS to fit more. The concentration of Big Als and PJ's and Petsmarts and private general and LFS stores in Toronto is pretty much full right now I think.


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## bigfishy (Jun 19, 2009)

AquariAM said:


> I honestly think that with Big Al's in the picture, it is not possible to run a profitable LFS privately in Toronto unless one of the ones running right now were to retire (ie, NAFB/Aqua Tropics). The market's just really saturated. I think you'd have to do something like Menagerie, and sell a bit of everything, to maintain profitability. In Markham, Mississauga, Thornhill, stuff like that, I think there's still enough sparcity of private LFS to fit more. The concentration of Big Als and PJ's and Petsmarts and private general and LFS stores in Toronto is pretty much full right now I think.


If you can sell the products in wholesale price, it will definitly steal customers away from Big Als and crush many local business...

Eg. A can of Tetra colorbits, if you get them in the States as wholesaler price, it will only cost $5 per can. Big Als sell each can at $19.99, and if you price it at $9.99, this will steal Big Als customer and as well as lucky's aquarium, which they sell it for $14.99 each.


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## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

bigfishy said:


> If you can sell the products in wholesale price, it will definitly steal customers away from Big Als and crush many local business...
> 
> Eg. A can of Tetra colorbits, if you get them in the States as wholesaler price, it will only cost $5 per can. Big Als sell each can at $19.99, and if you price it at $9.99, this will steal Big Als customer and as well as lucky's aquarium, which they sell it for $14.99 each.


You can't get product X in country Y because you're smarter than everyone else. There are tariffs to prevent this stuff.

Sure, you can sell it at cost, but then Big Als will notice, sell it at a LOSS, along with 10 other things, because they are a multi million dollar conglomerate and can crush anyone out they want. They will bring in better livestock and dry goods and destroy you with lower prices and better selection, then when your store's corpse is rotting in the summer sun they jack their prices back up and stop carrying interesting fish at a low price.


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## TBemba (Jan 11, 2010)

Kinda getting off topic 

What I like is a Clean store

One that does not smell

Bright store, I hate the way some stores have darkened fish rooms.

No more than 3 different types of fish in any one tank I would prefer 1 type per tank but I can understand space issues.

Label the tank with name of fish and price (marker on glass) take off old labels

Mop up the dam water (do water changes first thing in the morning or last thing at night)

check for dead or dying fish (first thing in the morning and last thing at night at least)

Pick a colour of gravel and stick with it makes everything look uniform and cleaner.

Acknowledge me when I walk in say hi if. I want something I can and will ask.

Have unusual stock and have a web site that tells me what you have like Big Al's weekly flyer specials. You don't even need a web site you can list your products on forums like this one.

Heck you could even get people to join a mailing list and every week or month send out a e-mail of what you have in stock.

Just some ideas

One more Idea train your staff or have some freaking Computers like the library and let someone look fish up it is the 21 century no?

two more: Have some hot young women working there maybe dressed in Hooter type uniforms


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## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

Kinda getting off topic 

What I like is a Clean store

*
Don't care. Have nice fish. Grow all the algae and have as many roaches and mice as you want.*

One that does not smell

*Kind of hard to avoid the whole 'earthy/beachy' smell with all that nitrification*

Bright store, I hate the way some stores have darkened fish rooms.

*Agreed*

No more than 3 different types of fish in any one tank I would prefer 1 type per tank but I can understand space issues.
*
I'd prefer a single species as well*

Label the tank with name of fish and price (marker on glass) take off old labels

*Agree. So annoying when not clearly labeled*

Mop up the dam water (do water changes first thing in the morning or last thing at night)

*Agree*

check for dead or dying fish (first thing in the morning and last thing at night at least)

*They do. But there's still dead fish. That many fish die. *

Pick a colour of gravel and stick with it makes everything look uniform and cleaner.

*Agree*

Acknowledge me when I walk in say hi if. I want something I can and will ask.

*Agree
*
Have unusual stock and have a web site that tells me what you have like Big Al's weekly flyer specials. You don't even need a web site you can list your products on forums like this one.

*Mike at Finatics usually does this on Pricenetwork.*

Heck you could even get people to join a mailing list and every week or month send out a e-mail of what you have in stock.

Just some ideas

One more Idea train your staff or have some freaking Computers like the library and let someone look fish up it is the 21 century no?
*
Agreed
*
two more: Have some hot young women working there maybe dressed in Hooter type uniforms 

*I want a 68 year old guy in a button down shirt with a bow-tie and a heavy european accent with glasses that really knows his stuff. I don't mix fish and attractive women. Two totally different parts of the brain. I'd actually feel less comfortable cherrypicking fish with 'hot young women' 
*


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## Windowlicka (Mar 5, 2008)

AquariAM said:


> I honestly think that with Big Al's in the picture, it is not possible to run a profitable LFS privately in Toronto unless one of the ones running right now were to retire


I disagree here.

There are plenty of VERY respectable independent LFS that continue to do well for themselves because they continue to follow a simple, basic business formula:

1) Be in business to make a fair degree of profit over the long-term
2) Be in business because you have a genuine personal interest in the livestock/products/services you propose to offer
3) Know your target market, how to reach them, how to attract them, and how ultimately to get their money out of your wallets!
4) Know your enemy, Keep them closer than you do your friends, and respect their achievements.

Finatics, Menagerie, NAFB, SUM, MOPS, etc are all living testament to this.

I believe that the Toronto/GTA/Ontario market can and will continue to sustain a wide range of independent LFS (and here's the kicker!) AS LONG AS Big Al's continues to do what they do so well..!

In order to sustain a local market, there has to be a way to attract new hobbyists into the market. Big Al's has that part of the market 100% sussed. They're geniuses at it. Do they do it well? Who cares! That's another topic; but Damn! They DO do it. Walk 'round any one of their stores on any given weekend and just watch the number of Mermaid/Buzz Lightyear-garbed tanks being ushered to the payment counter...

Their target audience is the beginner fishkeeper/impulse shopper. The "this place looks cool, let's take the kids in... damn - where'd that 5G tank with puke-green gravel come from" crew. Any educated buyer (and I classify members on this and other forums in this category - people who appreciate the hobby enough to conduct further research & education) are wise enough to realise that BA's is often expensive, their selection is pretty much 'cookie-cutter' and actually not often that great and that few of their staff know sh!t from shinola (there are some VERY knowledgeable exceptions - I apologise for the gross generalisation). This is where the 2nd tier independents do so well... they DO have the experience, specialisation and 'personal touch' to be able to cater to the experienced hobbyist. They actually _enhance_ what BA's does, and together they actually help to evolve the industry further. Indeed, the smarter LFS owner would no doubt recognise that they don't _actually _compete with BA's, rather _complement _them (every one of us 'educated buyers' still needs somewhere to buy that air-pump, powerhead or heater in an emergency - and where do we invariably turn?!?)

Are there room for more LFS? I certainly think so. I certainly HOPE so. Ontario is a ridiculously vast Province, and I believe the market (certainly within the GTA/Golden Horseshoe) is populous enough to sustain a broad spectrum of specialised and knowledgeable independent stores - It'd be for the betterment of the entire industry as a whole.


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## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

That was excellent and you've convinced me of your argument that BA's is the 'gateway drug' of aquarium keeping. I never looked at it that way.


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

Excellent post Windowlicka, I couldn't have said it better myself.


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## fish_luva (Nov 24, 2009)

Windowlicka, I totally agree with you. Well written and expressed very professionally. Awesome way of thinking about it, especially when i was not really thinking that way myself,,,, keep up the good work BA's and bring on newbies...


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## Fish_Man (Apr 9, 2010)

I agree and can't believe I was one of those people too. I have to say.. most of my stuff were bought from Big Al's and a good amount of $$ was spent on them. But after joining this forum and looking to kijiji and stuff. I've realize I can support other people or smaller LFS with their business.

Wish I knew this a bit earlier tho.. 

So my learning curve is like this:

Petsmart -> PJ's Pet -> Big Al's -> LFS -> Kijiji & Craiglist


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