# CRS or CBS?



## manmadecorals (Jan 17, 2012)

Just wanted to know which one is more popular out there between Crystal Black Shrimps and Crystal Red Shrimps as well as which grade you like better for that Shrimp. To make things even harder...you may only chose...ONE!

Aesthetically for me it's a close tie between CRS and CBS S+ Grade but since i may only chose one, i'm going to have to go with...CRS

So let the CBS and CRS battle begin!


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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

That chart is old though. And there's more than just CBS or CRS. There's crystal wine red shrimp, Black King Kong and the blue one, I forgot the name. Then there are the Pure red lines.

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## manmadecorals (Jan 17, 2012)

yea but i only have 10 spots to fill to make this poll and these grades are more available to us then any of the other ones you mentioned as well as $$$$ :S


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## FlyingHellFish (Mar 7, 2011)

They should have a chart for designs, I seen those CBS with two white dots on their head and a few other interesting traits.

I think anything SS is good, the higher up variants are way too expensive for my taste.


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## manmadecorals (Jan 17, 2012)

expensive and not as aesthetically pleasing IMO


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## getochkn (Jul 10, 2011)

I like CRS SS the best I think. I like the little pattern of red on the back to break up the white. It's all choice, some people like lower grades and love the candy cane stripe pattern. Some like SSS+ and all white with just a bit of red in patterns.


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## manmadecorals (Jan 17, 2012)

I know everyone has different taste lol. I'm trying to find out which one is more popular...that's the goal of my poll


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## Symplicity (Oct 14, 2011)

CRS SSS are my fav ... too bad I cant vote for it ...

Biased against CRS i see eh?


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## manmadecorals (Jan 17, 2012)

LOL!!! OOPS!! Damn copy paste...


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

Pattern-wise I like CRS SS, colour-wise (a different grading) I like the highest they get but can't afford them ;-)

Also, my ideal shrimp atm is CRS SS with full red/white legs, that's one of my mid-term goals.


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## getochkn (Jul 10, 2011)

Depends what grading system you go by as well.

This one http://www.crustahunter.com/de/node/944 which is german scale with their K# grading shows an SS Hino as a S grade because of the band around the tail where a SS to them has a second dot and no band.

Then you get into the pureline grading and its based now all on color, whiteness, legs. A grade to them is most solid white, somewhat colored legs and a SSS is solid whites, solid color, solid legs but might only have a Tiger Tooth pattern or 1 Hino dot. They gave up on the pattern grading and use it now for legs/body color, patterns are secondary now.

And what about goldens and snow whites??

This is one of mine, are they not pretty enough for your poll? lol.


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## getochkn (Jul 10, 2011)

randy said:


> Pattern-wise I like CRS SS, colour-wise (a different grading) I like the highest they get but can't afford them ;-)
> 
> Also, my ideal shrimp atm is CRS SS with full red/white legs, that's one of my mid-term goals.


+1. Me too. That's what I'm going to be culling and working my higher grade tank for, as you saw a few of the ones I have as my start towards it.


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

You got a head start, but I'm right behind you for now ;-)

Interested in a trade between your red/white leg CRS with some mischling or OEBT in a few months?



getochkn said:


> +1. Me too. That's what I'm going to be culling and working my higher grade tank for, as you saw a few of the ones I have as my start towards it.


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## getochkn (Jul 10, 2011)

randy said:


> You got a head start, but I'm right behind you for now ;-)
> 
> Interested in a trade between your red/white leg CRS with some mischling or OEBT in a few months?


Sure we could work out something. I think I'm going to sell all my A/S grades, I have another 90 babies around in a month or so and use that money to get SS CBS and setup a tank for them as I only have a few nice ones now and cut down on some of my neo's as well. Need to rethink and replan my space.


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## FlyingHellFish (Mar 7, 2011)

That is a beautiful shrimp geto, do you sell CBS by any chance? 


Out of curiosity, does the rating have points for the intensity of white? I would rather get a S with a sold bright white than SSS with a dirty white.


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## getochkn (Jul 10, 2011)

FlyingHellFish said:


> That is a beautiful shrimp geto, do you sell CBS by any chance?
> 
> Out of curiosity, does the rating have points for the intensity of white? I would rather get a S with a sold bright white than SSS with a dirty white.


The old grading system doesn't, the new grading system used in Japan does. I agree, I like a better looking lower grade than a blotchy SSS with half it's white missing.

I should have my SS> CBS tank up soon but right now I only have a small population and need to import some more and let them get going for a while so not for a while but I plan on having nice quality SS> CRS, CBS, Golden/snow whites and eventually TB's in the next 6 months going full strength. I may keep a tank or two for my PFR's but that's about it.


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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

manhtu said:


> expensive and not as aesthetically pleasing IMO


I don't know about that. A majority of the CRS and in some cases, the CBS are poluted in my opinion with the golden genes. Some of the Win red and BKK are more pure. But their offsprings are inconsistent though. But still, of the ones that make it, their white is exceptionally thick and bright.



Symplicity said:


> CRS SSS are my fav ... too bad I cant vote for it ...
> 
> Biased against CRS i see eh?


What bias? heh.

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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

BKKs and WRs are not just different grades of CRS/CBS, and they breed true (BKKs x BKKs = 100% BKKs).

CBS has grading too, search for black impact CBS and you'll see the nice black on them. But even black impact CBS's black isn't the same as the colour on BKKs.

This is one of the reason I don't like Taiwan bees (BKK, WR, ... etc). They keep changing and the expensive ones are not because of their beauty, but because their rarity and because they're new.

CRS/CBS though, are like Koi. A good one is always highly valued (not just $$), it was 5 years ago, it will be 5 years later. Sky is the limit for the price, again, just like Koi. And the pattern focused grading system is so 5 years ago in Asia, you talk about it and people know you're new ;-)

The trend is Asia is to value the shrimp in 1. Blood line (some shrimps come with a certificate from the breeders, ex: HKT, NSK, MFF (see this link in my blog for links), 2. Colour intensity including legs. 3. Pattern (mostly in the head and legs).

Anyway, we should have the shrimp talk soon ;-)

PS: Thanks for point it out, I have corrected the link.


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## getochkn (Jul 10, 2011)

You posted a local link Randy. This is what you meant to post?

http://ebilei.blogspot.ca/2012/04/ebileis-shrimp-dictionary.html

Take a look here if you want to see EXPENSIVE crystals. Notice the grading letter refers to color, not pattern. Pattern is mentioned in the name as secondary.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/benibachi-usa/169306-benibachi-shrimp.html


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## manmadecorals (Jan 17, 2012)

LOL...omg what have I started? All i wanted to know if which one finds the most aesthetically pleasing. 

I admit that the intensity of the color is a huge thing so let's assume that ALL of the grades have absolutely no transparency...all solid colors. Which one would you prefer?

Also i can't seem to correct my mistake on the poll...sorry guys


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## manmadecorals (Jan 17, 2012)

getochkn said:


> You posted a local link Randy. This is what you meant to post?
> 
> http://ebilei.blogspot.ca/2012/04/ebileis-shrimp-dictionary.html
> 
> ...


WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW!!!!!!

Mind blown!

Seeing those makes me want to start my tank from scratch again...


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## getochkn (Jul 10, 2011)

manhtu said:


> LOL...omg what have I started? All i wanted to know if which one finds the most aesthetically pleasing.
> 
> I admit that the intensity of the color is a huge thing so let's assume that ALL of the grades have absolutely no transparency...all solid colors. Which one would you prefer?
> 
> Also i can't seem to correct my mistake on the poll...sorry guys


For crystals, I do like the SS Hinos, double hinos, little lips.


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

Fun of shrimp keeping... but we all do one step at a time, but don't let GeToChKn get too far ahead ;-)



manhtu said:


> WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW!!!!!!
> 
> Mind blown!
> 
> Seeing those makes me want to start my tank from scratch again...


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## manmadecorals (Jan 17, 2012)

I really wish he didn't show me those shrimps...now i'm going to go home and hate on my shrimps


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## getochkn (Jul 10, 2011)

randy said:


> Fun of shrimp keeping... but we all do one step at a time, but don't let GeToChKn get too far ahead ;-)


lol. I enjoy keeping them, they are neat to sit there and watch for hours and hopefully it will pay off that I can offer decent prices good quality shrimp to people in the area and let it pay for itself. I don't plan on having 50tanks in my basement going or starting a store, and I really want to focus on quality over quantity now. My first 9 months in the hobby though resulted in a total of maybe 40-50 babies that lived. lol. The past few have given me 4 times that. lol.


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## getochkn (Jul 10, 2011)

manhtu said:


> I really wish he didn't show me those shrimps...now i'm going to go home and hate on my shrimps


Ya but yours don't cost the price of a mortgage payment either. lol. $950 for a shrimp, I'd be hard pressed to want to pay that and I better get a M/F pair for my $1900. lol.


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## manmadecorals (Jan 17, 2012)

... 
... ... Ok what you just said just made me feel ridiculously good LOL.

But damn though...Benibachi has been selectively breeding their shrimps since 2003! I've been going about this hobby all wrong! mixing my grades, genes, and the CBS and CRS together...who knows what i'll get in 9 years?!?


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

manhtu said:


> I really wish he didn't show me those shrimps...now i'm going to go home and hate on my shrimps


Currently I have 2 empty tanks ready for shrimps, for the occupied tanks I only have lower grade stuff and some mischling which may or may not produce. But I can still sit in front of the tanks and watch them for hours (yes) and not getting tired. They are just so much fun to watch.

Those thousand dollars shrimps (IIRC, the highest big in the red and white festival in Japan last year was just around $4000 for a single shrimp ;-) don't produce all offsprings just like the parents. Thanks God they don't, it makes the hobby more fun.


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

manhtu said:


> ...
> ... ... Ok what you just said just made me feel ridiculously good LOL.
> 
> But damn though...Benibachi has been selectively breeding their shrimps since 2003! I've been going about this hobby all wrong! mixing my grades, genes, and the CBS and CRS together...who knows what i'll get in 9 years?!?


I'm about to make your day even better. Hybrid does have its place, take a look at this link... and see his shrimps -- the kinds you can't find anywhere else and he is not selling either.


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## bigfishy (Jun 19, 2009)

manhtu said:


> I really wish he didn't show me those shrimps...now i'm going to go home and hate on my shrimps


time to order online!

line of credit + credit cards ftw! 

I like crystals to have full body of white color and a little dip of redness or blackness


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## manmadecorals (Jan 17, 2012)

no time wasted...reading now!


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## bigfishy (Jun 19, 2009)

randy said:


> I'm about to make your day even better. Hybrid does have its place, take a look at this link... and see his shrimps -- the kinds you can't find anywhere else and he is not selling either.


just like flowerhorn cichlids but in smaller scale! ^^


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## splur (May 11, 2011)

Of the choices, CRS S+ grade is my favorite. I mean the SS are fancy, but I like the three full stripes and the whites that come with a S+.


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## matti2uude (Jan 10, 2009)

I like CBS SS the best.


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## getochkn (Jul 10, 2011)

manhtu said:


> ...
> ... ... Ok what you just said just made me feel ridiculously good LOL.
> 
> But damn though...Benibachi has been selectively breeding their shrimps since 2003! I've been going about this hobby all wrong! mixing my grades, genes, and the CBS and CRS together...who knows what i'll get in 9 years?!?


Reds, blacks, snows, goldens in various grades in 1 tank is what lead to Taiwan Bee's. Red's and black together can produce the odd tri-color crystals, black head, red tails, as well as crystal browns.

Guess it depends on what your goal is. Really, I wouldn't try and bother going after my own pure line with random shrimp, I would buy some and start from there. There is a guy on shrimpnow who has some nice shrimp that he got by mixing 5 or 6 different pure lines over the years, so you get a good range of genetics without any black/golden genes in the mix.


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## manmadecorals (Jan 17, 2012)

so for the shrimps that are more transparent...would the color enhancing food really work?


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## manmadecorals (Jan 17, 2012)

randy said:


> I'm about to make your day even better. Hybrid does have its place, take a look at this link... and see his shrimps -- the kinds you can't find anywhere else and he is not selling either.


mine will become crystal poo shrimps according to the variation of shrimps i have


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## bigfishy (Jun 19, 2009)

*Shrimp Salad Mix*



getochkn said:


> Reds, blacks, snows, goldens in various grades in 1 tank is what lead to Taiwan Bee's. Red's and black together can produce the odd tri-color crystals, black head, red tails, as well as crystal browns.
> 
> Guess it depends on what your goal is. Really, I wouldn't try and bother going after my own pure line with random shrimp, I would buy some and start from there. There is a guy on shrimpnow who has some nice shrimp that he got by mixing 5 or 6 different pure lines over the years, so you get a good range of genetics without any black/golden genes in the mix.


Just like my shrimp salad mix 

CRS, orange, yellow, snow white, tigers and ninja


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## getochkn (Jul 10, 2011)

manhtu said:


> so for the shrimps that are more transparent...would the color enhancing food really work?


Maybe temp but not full time. A poor colored shrimp is just that, and should be culled out. I try and stay away from all the additive stuff and stick with keep it simple. Borneo wild has their spinach product or their barely product. Meh, a $3 bag of frozen spinach will last years. $8 bag of pond barely pellets will last me 10 years of shrimp keeping. I feed like 1/4 of a pellet for 50-100 shrimp. I don't know if some $25 bottle of 50g of barely is that much better 4kg for $8. I do use RO water and remineralize it and feed a baby food in tanks full of babies but other than that, not much added. I start off a tank with a good dose of old sea mud powder and then a small dose every few months just to get some good trace minerals in. They can be good products if you know how to use them and what they do and what they contain, but for the most part just dosing white enhancer, red enhancer, this tonic, this mineral stone, this mineral water, this mineral powder, etc does more problems that good. The thing is most people buy the whole line and dose them all the time without realizing adding mineral powder, mineral stone and mineral liquid all do the same thing and now you've overdosed your tank on trace minerals.

I rather spend $200 on shrimp than $200 on additives. lol.


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

manhtu said:


> so for the shrimps that are more transparent...would the color enhancing food really work?


There's only so much can be done by adjusting food, light, water parameters, ... etc. In Taiwan, when buying CRS from the breeders, some breeders offer to turn off the light (stage 1), then turn on the light (stage 2). Any colour loss at stage 1 will be cheapest, any colour loss at only stage 2 commands a higher price, and no colour loss after stage 1 & 2 have sky high prices. Now, think about what we do here ;-)

ATM, all my shrimp will fail that test before stage 1.


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## bigfishy (Jun 19, 2009)

getochkn said:


> I rather spend $200 on shrimp than $200 on additives. lol.


They are like women going into shopping mall and buy makeups 

Now is the men going into shops and buy additives for shrimps 



randy said:


> There's only so much can be done by adjusting food, light, water parameters, ... etc. In Taiwan, when buying CRS from the breeders, some breeders offer to turn off the light (stage 1), then turn on the light (stage 2). Any colour loss at stage 1 will be cheapest, any colour loss at only stage 2 commands a higher price, and no colour loss after stage 1 & 2 have sky high prices. Now, think about what we do here ;-)
> 
> ATM, all my shrimp will fail that test before stage 1.


If we do it like this, I am going to be RICH!


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## manmadecorals (Jan 17, 2012)

getochkn said:


> Maybe temp but not full time. A poor colored shrimp is just that, and should be culled out. I try and stay away from all the additive stuff and stick with keep it simple. Borneo wild has their spinach product or their barely product. Meh, a $3 bag of frozen spinach will last years. $8 bag of pond barely pellets will last me 10 years of shrimp keeping. I feed like 1/4 of a pellet for 50-100 shrimp. I don't know if some $25 bottle of 50g of barely is that much better 4kg for $8. I do use RO water and remineralize it and feed a baby food in tanks full of babies but other than that, not much added. I start off a tank with a good dose of old sea mud powder and then a small dose every few months just to get some good trace minerals in. They can be good products if you know how to use them and what they do and what they contain, but for the most part just dosing white enhancer, red enhancer, this tonic, this mineral stone, this mineral water, this mineral powder, etc does more problems that good. The thing is most people buy the whole line and dose them all the time without realizing adding mineral powder, mineral stone and mineral liquid all do the same thing and now you've overdosed your tank on trace minerals.
> 
> I rather spend $200 on shrimp than $200 on additives. lol.


very interesting indeed...that being said does the variety of food given to shrimps really make any difference? 
whether its spinach or barley (although i do notice my shrimps devour the barley a lot faster and quicker then any other food I've given them.) isn't it all the same as long as they don't die of hunger?
and where can i get a 4kg bag of barley for $8? Is that the same compressed pellets as the ones from Borneo Wild?


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## manmadecorals (Jan 17, 2012)

randy said:


> There's only so much can be done by adjusting food, light, water parameters, ... etc. In Taiwan, when buying CRS from the breeders, some breeders offer to turn off the light (stage 1), then turn on the light (stage 2). Any colour loss at stage 1 will be cheapest, any colour loss at only stage 2 commands a higher price, and no colour loss after stage 1 & 2 have sky high prices. Now, think about what we do here ;-)
> 
> ATM, all my shrimp will fail that test before stage 1.


i'm never home to see how they look after the lights turn off and on but i'll definitely give it a try when i get home tonight.


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## getochkn (Jul 10, 2011)

manhtu said:


> very interesting indeed...that being said does the variety of food given to shrimps really make any difference?
> whether its spinach or barley (although i do notice my shrimps devour the barley a lot faster and quicker then any other food I've given them.) isn't it all the same as long as they don't die of hunger?
> and where can i get a 4kg bag of barley for $8? Is that the same compressed pellets as the ones from Borneo Wild?


Laguna Barley and Straw pellets from BA's. Sorry, they are $17. Thought I paid less than that, but then maybe that's just what I tell myself when I goto BA's so I don't feel so bad about going there.

http://www.bigalsonline.ca/pond/natural-barley-straw-pellets-2-5-lb.html

Never seen the BW ones but these are pellets, I cut them up into smaller pieces and feed and my shrimp go nuts coming from all corners of the tank when I feed these.


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## manmadecorals (Jan 17, 2012)

Gonna have get me some of that! 

That definitely beats the 40g container of Borneo Wild Barley shrimp pellets at $10!


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## getochkn (Jul 10, 2011)

manhtu said:


> Gonna have get me some of that!
> 
> That definitely beats the 40g container of Borneo Wild Barley shrimp pellets at $10!


I'm sure the BW might have something else in it to help the shrimp or fortified or something but a 1/4 pellet of these, no deaths and shrimp go nuts, so it works.


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## arinsi (Mar 14, 2010)

s grade crs for me


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

getochkn said:


> I'm sure the BW might have something else in it to help the shrimp or fortified or something but a 1/4 pellet of these, no deaths and shrimp go nuts, so it works.


It definitely works. It's hot in Asia too, they advertise it as "barley pellet imported from USA" and completely ignore what they are made for.


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## manmadecorals (Jan 17, 2012)

getochkn said:


> Laguna Barley and Straw pellets from BA's. Sorry, they are $17. Thought I paid less than that, but then maybe that's just what I tell myself when I goto BA's so I don't feel so bad about going there.
> 
> http://www.bigalsonline.ca/pond/natural-barley-straw-pellets-2-5-lb.html
> 
> Never seen the BW ones but these are pellets, I cut them up into smaller pieces and feed and my shrimp go nuts coming from all corners of the tank when I feed these.


I went to look for some today at Big Al's in mississauga and they had no idea wth I was looking for...after a few minutes of looking on my own I just gave up. Decided to check PJ's at the Bramelea City Centre and to my surprise!


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## getochkn (Jul 10, 2011)

manhtu said:


> I went to look for some today at Big Al's in mississauga and they had no idea wth I was looking for...after a few minutes of looking on my own I just gave up. Decided to check PJ's at the Bramelea City Centre and to my surprise!


Good stuff. Only feed a small portion of a pellet. 1 to 1.5 pellets I use for feeding 5 tanks. They expand in the water. I also recommend using a feeding dish to keep the remains of any shrimp food in 1 spot for the shrimp to eventually eat or snails and not to fall into the substrate. Decaying food in the substrate will reduce water quality, create ammonia spikes, encourage planaria, hydra, bacteria infections, etc. I use glass astrays from the dollar story. You can push it into the substrate a bit so the shrimp can get to it easily, clean out uneaten food with a turkey baster, and it won't allow food to get into the substrate where it can't be removed.


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

getochkn said:


> Good stuff. Only feed a small portion of a pellet. 1 to 1.5 pellets I use for feeding 5 tanks. They expand in the water. I also recommend using a feeding dish to keep the remains of any shrimp food in 1 spot for the shrimp to eventually eat or snails and not to fall into the substrate. Decaying food in the substrate will reduce water quality, create ammonia spikes, encourage planaria, hydra, bacteria infections, etc. I use glass astrays from the dollar story. You can push it into the substrate a bit so the shrimp can get to it easily, clean out uneaten food with a turkey baster, and it won't allow food to get into the substrate where it can't be removed.


For barley straw pellets, some people just leave them in the substrate as the straw remainder is said to promote beneficial bacteria to grow. Myself do the same as getochkn, I use small trays so I can clean up once in a while. For any other food though, I make sure I remove the uneaten portion after 2 to 3 hours.


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## manmadecorals (Jan 17, 2012)

According to the Borneo Wild Website. Their barley food for shrimps also contains peat and humic acid other then the obvious natural barley straw. I'm going to have to wait until i go home tonight and see if Laguna Barley contains other ingredients as well.


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## getochkn (Jul 10, 2011)

manhtu said:


> According to the Borneo Wild Website. Their barley food for shrimps also contains peat and humic acid other then the obvious natural barley straw. I'm going to have to wait until i go home tonight and see if Laguna Barley contains other ingredients as well.


I'm sure the BW wild ones contain a few more things but $17 for 5 pounds or $20 for a small container, I can do without the extra's. lol.


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## splur (May 11, 2011)

manhtu said:


> I went to look for some today at Big Al's in mississauga and they had no idea wth I was looking for...after a few minutes of looking on my own I just gave up. Decided to check PJ's at the Bramelea City Centre and to my surprise!


I've been looking for those for ages...


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## matti2uude (Jan 10, 2009)

They go on sale in the fall for 50% off. They were sold out last fall when I went to get some. They should be restocking them now.


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## manmadecorals (Jan 17, 2012)

I was lucky and got the last bag on sale for $6 regular price was $20 at PJ's. I also just came back from Petsmart in Heartland during my lunch and found 3 bags of the 2.5lbs Laguna Barley Straw pellets at $15 i believe...i can't remember.


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## manmadecorals (Jan 17, 2012)

getochkn said:


> I'm sure the BW wild ones contain a few more things but $17 for 5 pounds or $20 for a small container, I can do without the extra's. lol.


very true and agreed.


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## arktixan (Mar 30, 2010)

Im a sucker for the CRS S-S+ borderline SS.


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## Scotmando (Jul 10, 2011)

manhtu said:


> I was lucky and got the last bag on sale for $6 regular price was $20 at PJ's. I also just came back from Petsmart in Heartland during my lunch and found 3 bags of the 2.5lbs Laguna Barley Straw pellets at $15 i believe...i can't remember.


Like to share? I'd gladly trade or purchase some Barley Straw pellets from you as it may take years to empty the bag you just purchased.

I have 'flightless' fruit flies (my bettas love 'em), white, micro & walter worms.

Let me know if your interested. My CRS, CBS & cherry shrimp will love you!

Cheers, Scott


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## manmadecorals (Jan 17, 2012)

Scotmando said:


> Like to share? I'd gladly trade or purchase some Barley Straw pellets from you as it may take years to empty the bag you just purchased.
> 
> I have 'flightless' fruit flies (my bettas love 'em), white, micro & walter worms.
> 
> ...


yea i don't mind a little trade  Where in Mississauga are you located? send me a PM!


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