# Warning About Tap Water!



## Katalyst (Jul 29, 2007)

I was changing one of my tanks a few days ago that has been up and running with a stable cycle for several years now. Almost the entire tank died within minutes of the new water being added. I thought *I* did something wrong temperature wise etc. Well today after loosing half of another tank I decided to test my tap water. 2.00ppm! I tested this water 4 different times with 2 different test kits because I couldn't believe it. Never have I ever had ammonia in my tap water. 

At this point I'm still in panic mode. I even tested my aged water which I let sit over over several days for my bettas, large amounts of ammonia as well. 

I am in North York so I figured I'd warn you guys before you end up like me.  

TEST YOUR WATER!


----------



## Sunstar (Jul 29, 2008)

I'd be calling the city. thanks for the heads up!


----------



## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

wow Kate, thanks for the heads up. Good thing I was lazy and didn't get to my WCs today. I will be sure to test my water and let you know.


----------



## Canadiancray (Apr 27, 2006)

Tis that time of year when you want to limit your water changes. The city is dumping all sorts of chemicals into the water this time of year do to the thermal switchover in the lake. All sorts of crap gets stirred up. You ammonia most likely came from Chloramine.


----------



## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Just tested my water (Scarborough - Brimley/Ellesmere):

Straight out of tap: 0.50 ppm
Filtered (on tap brita): 0.25 ppm

I've never had ammonia out the tap before. Thanks for the heads up. Will definitely be dusting off that bottle of prime tomorrow.


----------



## Calmer (Mar 9, 2008)

Canadiancray said:


> You ammonia most likely came from Chloramine.


Exactly what I was thinking, Chloramine.
If so, then it is really sad that the water chemistry can be changed on us without any kind of a warning. So far no troubles out my way.


----------



## Katalyst (Jul 29, 2007)

Calmer said:


> Exactly what I was thinking, Chloramine.
> If so, then it is really sad that the water chemistry can be changed on us without any kind of a warning. So far no troubles out my way.


Yep I figured as much but having a filter on my water and never having any ammonia readings in the past gave me a false sense of security I guess. I guess I will be switching everyone over to r/o for a few weeks since I am leaving for Florida soon and need to get some large changes done.

Thanks Craig for the info, I assume this happens every year? Ugh? Any idea how long to expect scary readings for? 

I'm sick over this the fish were actually twisting in agony immediately and I was only able to save a few. Lost all of my royals. , calico shortfins and albino's and a ton of rare cory's.


----------



## Canadiancray (Apr 27, 2006)

Yeah it happens every year during the changover from fall - winter & from Spring - Summer.

As far as notifiying the public. Why should they? There is no risk to humans. Its just one of those things you learn about about many years of keeping fish. During these times of year limit your water changes.


----------



## Sunstar (Jul 29, 2008)

not exactly sure, but I think it might be in burlington water.


----------



## Canadiancray (Apr 27, 2006)

It happens in all water treatment systems that take their water out of the lake. Fortunatly for people in Burlington ours is not nearly as bad as others because Burlington switched to an OZONE treatment system a few years back which dramatically cuts down in the use of chemicals.


----------



## Sunstar (Jul 29, 2008)

good to know. tanks!


----------



## PPulcher (Nov 17, 2006)

Gah, I just set up my water for changing this afternoon! I treated with Prime, at the normal rate which is supposed to look after 0.8 ppm of ammonia. Looks like I'll add enough for a triple dose.

Sorry to hear about your troubles, but thanks for passing on the info.


----------



## BWI (Nov 13, 2008)

We are about to announce our new RO unit that is focused on freshwater aquarium needs, because all our units now are marine focused.

might be worth checking out a ro unit to help with your water needs!


----------



## Katalyst (Jul 29, 2007)

BWI said:


> We are about to announce our new RO unit that is focused on freshwater aquarium needs, because all our units now are marine focused.
> 
> might be worth checking out a ro unit to help with your water needs!


Already have one, thanks.  I also have a filter on my regular tap which I usually only use the sediment removal cartridges for since I've never had an ammonia reading before. I just picked up a different type that also removes chloramines, metals etc. so hopefully that'll do the trick.


----------



## Canadiancray (Apr 27, 2006)

What could possibly be the difference???



BWI said:


> We are about to announce our new RO unit that is focused on freshwater aquarium needs, because all our units now are marine focused.
> 
> might be worth checking out a ro unit to help with your water needs!


----------



## BWI (Nov 13, 2008)

Canadiancray said:


> What could possibly be the difference???


Well first off there wouldn't be a DI filter, we would have 1micron Prefilter, .05Micron Carbon (specialty carbon), again .05 Carbon (specialty carbon) then membrane for roughly $150


----------



## PPulcher (Nov 17, 2006)

It's the carbon that removes the chloramine rather than the RO membrane, correct?


----------



## PPulcher (Nov 17, 2006)

I live a little north of Kat, and this is what I got:

Water treated with 3x dose prime
Initial reading: not detected
After 5 min: 0.5 ppm

Raw tapwater
After 5 min: 0.5 ppm

Seachem says to read Salicylate based kits like the one I used right away. I'm assuming after 5 min. the kit is reading total, not free ammonia in the treated water. Either way, it looks like the spike hasn't reached this way yet.


----------



## Canadiancray (Apr 27, 2006)

Ahh I see its the other filters. I thought the RO membrane was different.



BWI said:


> Well first off there wouldn't be a DI filter, we would have 1micron Prefilter, .05Micron Carbon (specialty carbon), again .05 Carbon (specialty carbon) then membrane for roughly $150


----------



## BWI (Nov 13, 2008)

PPulcher said:


> It's the carbon that removes the chloramine rather than the RO membrane, correct?


yea one would be that kind of filter!


----------



## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

Sorry to hear about your loses Kate .

Actually, the city pretty much use what ever it takes to get the water clean. They swap from Chlorine to Chloramies back and forth from time to time. So a lot of people get caught off guard when they just aerate their water or let it sit for a while, thinking that it's just chlorine water.
But Canadiancray is right, fall-winter and spring-summer is when they like to overdose the tap with higher concenration because of the high bacteria run off from the lake and rivers. In fact, every time you notice that our beach is close due to high bacteria, there is a high chance that your tap are OD.
Alot of places are doing this because they don't want to end up with another Walkerton fiasco.

*Never pay again for live sex! | Hot girls doing naughty stuff for free! | Chat for free!*


----------



## Canadiancray (Apr 27, 2006)

The further you are away from the main water treatment plant the more likely you will find Chloramine in your tapwater as it lasts longer in the transport pipes vs. Chlorine.

This time of year PRIME is your best friend.


----------



## Riceburner (Mar 14, 2008)

Anyone know what they are doing in Richmond Hill?


----------



## PPulcher (Nov 17, 2006)

Riceburner said:


> Anyone know what they are doing in Richmond Hill?


AFAIK, south of the the Morraine, our water in RH comes from the City of Toronto treatment plants. I measured the ammonia of the raw tapwater Saturday and 0.5 ppm. I measured again on Sunday before changing water and got the same.


----------



## dr_sudz (Sep 12, 2007)

Time to buy a big ol' bottle of prime!


----------



## Katalyst (Jul 29, 2007)

Thank god for the 4 gallons in my basement! I'm adding water to my holding tanks dosing to the high heavens with prime mixing with a power head for 20 minutes and so far I did two tanks without problem. Kinda seems like defeating the purpose of a water change though lol. 

How much fun its going to be to do this for my 150's and 90 & 60gallons.


----------



## JamesG (Feb 27, 2007)

Im sorry to hear about all of your losses Kate  That really sucks. I have to say thank you for informing the rest of us and starting this discussion. I have always wondered what Toronto uses and how they deal with seasonal bacteria fluctuations in our water supply. I think this may push me to get an RO unit. 

Best of luck and check your Inbox for a PM from me.


----------



## Bwhiskered (Oct 2, 2008)

Everyone has problems when the lake turns over. Ammonia is added to keep up the Chlorine level up making Chloramine. Sometimes the treatment plants automatic dispensing units screw up and over dose. Burlington's treatment is mainly ozone but at times like this some chlorine is added. Especially when the effluent flow from Hamilton Bay flows accross our intake pipes. Now thats recycling. Yuk.


----------



## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Thanks again for the heads up Kate. Got around to changing water last night, treated every bucket with 2x the normal dosage of prime, and everyone is ok this morning.


----------



## Prodicus (Nov 3, 2008)

The last few days I've been testing my 15 g twice a day because the ammonia won't go away even with 80% daily water change (with regular Prime dosage). I couldn't understand how a few small fish could be producing so much waste. In fact, this morning I gave up and moved them to my 46 g. Now I will be testing my tap water to see if that was the problem...Wow.


----------



## Sunstar (Jul 29, 2008)

was it the tap water?


----------



## Prodicus (Nov 3, 2008)

Yes - Tap water conditioned with Prime. I test 8 hours later and I'm finding low levels of ammonia. Now I'm thinking the ammonia isn't getting removed from the start.



Sunstar said:


> was it the tap water?


----------



## PPulcher (Nov 17, 2006)

This is a toughie. Seachem in their Prime FAQ says you are likely to get false-positive tests unless you use their test kit. Your test kit could be measuring total ammonia (inc. the stuff bound by Prime), and not free ammonia (the stuff that hurts fish). How were your fish acting?

This is what they say:

_Q:I tested my tap water after using Prime and came up with an ammonia reading. Is this because of chloramine? Could you explain how this works in removing chloramine?

A: Prime works by removing chlorine from the water and then binds with ammonia until it can be consumed by your biological filtration (chloramine minus chlorine = ammonia). The bond is not reversible and ammonia is still available for your bacteria to consume. Prime will not halt your cycling process.
I am going to assume that you were using a liquid based reagent test kit (Nessler based, silica). Any type of reducing agent or ammonia binder (dechlorinators, etc) will give you a false positive. You can avoid this by using our Multitest Ammonia kit (not affected by reducing agents) or you can wait to test, Prime dissipates from your system within 24 hours._
See the stuff on Prime and ammonia/chloramines here:

http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/Prime.html


----------



## Prodicus (Nov 3, 2008)

Many thanks for the info! 

To be honest, I'm not sure that my problem isn't due to poor management on my part. I tested the (conditioned) tap water and it looks ok. Out of curiousity, I will test the same bucket in a few hours to see if ammonia has been freed up (or is yielding positive, in any case). In the mean time, the fish are in the other tank.

The fish were'nt looking stressed except for the one time I forget to turn the heater on and the temp dropped to 66 c. :-(


----------



## Cory (May 2, 2008)

Hmm this could explain why some of my tanks have been getting a bit cloudy shortly after water changes. Fortunately I run pretty high filtration on most tanks and the bacterial blooms have only been lasting a few hours. No fish have died on me though.


----------



## twoheadedfish (May 10, 2008)

man i'm glad i read this thread....i'll test downtown water tomorrow and post.


----------



## PPulcher (Nov 17, 2006)

Did my water changes yesterday. Richmond Hill tapwater tested the same 0.5 ppm of ammonia as it did last week.


----------



## Riceburner (Mar 14, 2008)

Thanks PPulcher, good to know.


----------



## Calmer (Mar 9, 2008)

How many of you have had problems right away or have seen high ammonia levels in non-planted tanks a day later after water changes? Ammonia should not last long in planted tanks. This is just a theory I am going on at the moment. The plant buffer theory. 

"Chloramine in tap water gives a greenish cast to the water in bulk, versus the normally bluish cast to pure water or water containing only free chlorine disinfectant. This greenish color may be observed by filling a white polyethylene bucket with chloraminated tap water and comparing it to chloramine-free water such as distilled water or a sample from a swimming pool."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chloramine
Mine is a very faint light blue colour.


----------



## lili (Dec 15, 2007)

I've said it a long time ago: water in downtown building has a lot of amonia. That's why I use PRIME.


----------



## PPulcher (Nov 17, 2006)

Calmer said:


> How many of you have had problems right away or have seen high ammonia levels in non-planted tanks a day later after water changes? Ammonia should not last long in planted tanks. This is just a theory I am going on at the moment. The plant buffer theory.


Truthfully, I don't normally bother with ammonia testing unless the fish are in distress. I use Prime as many others do, and I know that I'll get false-positive test readings anyway. I use plants extensively as a buffer too. It seems to work okay.

I was more concerned with a huge spike in chloramine that Kat reported so I could adjust the amount of Prime I was adding to my make-up water.

lili, I'm curious if you have tested the tapwater before adding Prime? How much is 'a lot?'


----------



## Fishyfishyfishy (Mar 3, 2008)

Serious stuff ... I am not a fan of using test kits .... So I normally just pour in tap water ... I have a 90g and I change about 20 - 25% water ....

Nothing happened to me so far =)

*I live in North York (Yonge/Finch)


----------



## Fishyfishyfishy (Mar 3, 2008)

Calmer said:


> Exactly what I was thinking, Chloramine.
> If so, then it is really sad that the water chemistry can be changed on us without any kind of a warning. So far no troubles out my way.


Well it is still safe for humans to drink ... that is all the city cares about ...


----------



## characinfan (Dec 24, 2008)

Just wondering, do you guys let your water sit before adding it to your tanks? I always let mine sit for at least a day (to reach room temperature and to help the chlorine dissipate) *and* condition it before adding it to my tank. Never had a problem.


----------



## PPulcher (Nov 17, 2006)

characinfan said:


> Just wondering, do you guys let your water sit before adding it to your tanks? I always let mine sit for at least a day (to reach room temperature and to help the chlorine dissipate) *and* condition it before adding it to my tank. Never had a problem.


I like to age the water for a day before I do changes - not for chlorine (more on that in a bit) but because there are lots of dissolved gases in the water, particularly in the winter. I do large water changes (50-75%) so I don't want these gases causing embolisms in my fish.

I assume my water has chloramines, and these won't dissipate with time like chlorine, so aging doesn't really help in this regard.


----------



## Bwhiskered (Oct 2, 2008)

*Bad Water*

Letting water sit does not let the chlorine disipate. They now use Chloramine which is ammonia added to chlorine so it won't break down quickly. Chlorine used to leave sitting water in 24 hours or less But it would now take a week or more. I use a barrel to age water in. I have it filtering though activated carbon in a Magnum 350 Canister filter. This works well for me. Burlington uses Ozone purification but still adds some chlorine at times. I find the water is the worst between Christmas and New Years when the main crew is home and the water is not checked the same.


----------



## Sunstar (Jul 29, 2008)

I don't have room for a barrel of water... I been using recuycled apple cider jungs (1 gallon) to pre-treat/condtions and add whatever I need in it prior to use so its on hand. That works best for my little tanks or the betta homes.


----------



## Sunstar (Jul 29, 2008)

Heads up for burlington. 

My husband was complaining about the smell of chlorine in his coffee last night, so I did a ammonia test this morning and came up positive. It is very low level, which I consider tollerable, but heads up anyway. I am assuming chloramine.

around 0.6


----------

