# What is the best bio filter media in your opinion.



## Hitch (Apr 26, 2009)

Hey

So I am reading into the bio filtration more these days.....was reading about rabies, then read about viruses, which led me to bacteria, led me to nitrobacters, led me to aquarium nitrogen, led me to bio media. (I love how everything comes back to this hobby when Im bored...lol)

and I was just wondering what kind of bio filtration media you use/have had good experiences using?

Main reason I am asking is because I was just wondering if there I should stick with the Eheim substrate or the other commercial media (bioballs etc)

Thanks for the input.


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## knight of ni (Oct 8, 2006)

probably best to forget what you read about nitrobacter.
it was all hogwash.
nitrobacter is a nitrifier, is found in sludge tanks...and is easy to grow in a lab...but is not found present in mature freshwater aquaria to any degree.

When they tried to culture sludge organisms, nitrobacter popped up well in the lab conditions...so it was assumed that it was the responsible agent for producing nitrate in aquaria...not so.
Now it's very well accepted myth.


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

sorry, but you're completely wrong. Nitrifying bacteria are present in all tanks - how do you think proteins eventually break down to becomes nitrates? MAGIC!!!!

Or it's nitrifying bacteria. A cursory search on pubmed alone brings up 2200+ Peer-reviewed articles on the nitrification process. If it's hogwash, please refute the current understanding of the nitrogen cycle and enlighten us.

Baseless comments like that really get me going. Sorry.

On topic, as for biomedia I've been using either efisubstrat pro or just regular efisubstrat, since all I use is eheims. But if I'm setting up a qt or hospital, then a sponge or even filter floss is perfectly acceptable substitute for biomedia, as long as it's seeded. The only requisite feature of biomedia is that it have a large surface for sufficient bacterial colonization. Or to hide the magic inside. You choose.


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## knight of ni (Oct 8, 2006)

ameekplec. said:


> sorry, but you're completely wrong. Nitrifying bacteria are present in all tanks - how do you think proteins eventually break down to becomes nitrates? MAGIC!!!!
> 
> Or it's nitrifying bacteria. A cursory search on pubmed alone brings up 2200+ Peer-reviewed articles on the nitrification process. If it's hogwash, please refute the current understanding of the nitrogen cycle and enlighten us.
> 
> Baseless comments like that really get me going. Sorry.


It's Ok, don't be sorry about comments, we can look into this a bit deeper if you like.

I don't think you could actually call what I claimed "baseless", as I named the basis for how the confusion arose over which organisms are responsible in freshwater aquaria.
Perhaps you meant "without supporting evidence provided" ?

I'll provide more than you. How's that ?  Meanwhile, I challenge you to show even ONE DNA study confirming it's nitrobacter in freshwater tanks which does the job. Fair enough ?

Next post will give a few study abstracts.

Dave

here's Dr. Hovanec's finding for the quick answer...while he first expected to find nitrobacter, he could not find it...over and over...not found..though it appears that nitrosomonas-like organisms may be involved in the transformation of ammonia to nitrite.



> Oxidation of nitrite to nitrate in aquaria is typically attributed to bacteria belonging to the genus Nitrobacter which are members of the alpha subdivision of the class Proteobacteria. In order to identify bacteria responsible for nitrite oxidation in aquaria, clone libraries of rRNA genes were developed from biofilms of several freshwater aquaria. Analysis of the rDNA libraries, along with results from denaturing gradient gel electrophoresis (DGGE) on frequently sampled biofilms, indicated the presence of putative nitrite-oxidizing bacteria closely related to other members of the genus Nitrospira. Nucleic acid hybridization experiments with rRNA from biofilms of freshwater aquaria demonstrated that Nitrospira-like rRNA comprised nearly 5% of the rRNA extracted from the biofilms during the establishment of nitrification. Nitrite-oxidizing bacteria belonging to the alpha subdivision of the class Proteobacteria (e.g., Nitrobacter spp.) were not detected in these samples. Aquaria which received a commercial preparation containing Nitrobacter species did not show evidence of Nitrobacter growth and development but did develop substantial populations of Nitrospira-like species. Time series analysis of rDNA phylotypes on aquaria biofilms by DGGE, combined with nitrite and nitrate analysis, showed a correspondence between the appearance of Nitrospira-like bacterial ribosomal DNA and the initiation of nitrite oxidation. In total, the data suggest that Nitrobacter winogradskyi and close relatives were not the dominant nitrite-oxidizing bacteria in freshwater aquaria. Instead, nitrite oxidation in freshwater aquaria appeared to be mediated by bacteria closely related to Nitrospira moscoviensis and Nitrospira marina.


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Thanks for a great answer! I was thinking you meant generally (and therefore incorrectly) referring to all nitrogenous waste oxidizing bacteria as Nitrobacter. BTW, do you have a citation for that paper I can look up?

But I'm up for the challenge. I'll see what I can find 

edi - I found the paper.


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## knight of ni (Oct 8, 2006)

you're welcome. here's an article describing some of the changes in organisms populations as bacteria develop in a tank. How the different bac populations develop and where they grow, is seemingly related strongly to tank conditions...ammonia reading, nitrite reading, pH, and so on. You know, it's almost as how a field would grow plants after being burned down to the ground. First might be one kind predominating, then a different kind, then taller ones shade new ones from growing, and so on till you have trees. the differing conditions over time bring on a range of players. and nitrobacter is not one of the trees 

It's a Lupin 

http://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...serid=10&md5=48b354cab723991145f58ed82e4e18ee


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## Hitch (Apr 26, 2009)

Like Ameek. I was using the term nitrobacter as a general term for nitrogen fixing bacteria. Though being in mircro...I should have used the right term...lol, but in my defense pathogenic bacteria is more up my ally.

The reason why I was asking was...I was reading about their ehfisubstrat pro being washable....and trying to find info on how they are different from the regular ehfisubstrat, and a little skeptical about their washable claim....lol


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

After reading the paper, while it does find that there is a lack of Nitrobacter species development in their test aquaria, I hardly believe their study as generalizibility to real aquaria. Problems with generalizability are:

1. Sterile conditions - there were no opportunity for introduced bacteria from other sources besides culture bred danio rerio (fairly pathogen free to begin with).
2. Where bacterial cultures were used/introduced, they use cycle (by Hagen) - a product we all know to be garbage.
3. They evaluated bacterial content on biofilms of aquarium gravel in undergravel systems.

I don't think the conditions presented in the study give an opportunity for the development of other cultures of nitrifying bacteria, specially when the sole source for nitrigen species oxidizers is Cycle. In a real home aquarium, I'm certain that you'd find similar conditions in either a filter or in the gravel of sludge or riverbottom systems where nitrobacter are known to occur in the wild. While this particular study did find that nitrobacter species do not seem to be the predominant species, there are many many other studies out characterizing the presence of Nitrobacter sp. in waste water of FW systems.

Linky: http://aem.asm.org/cgi/reprint/64/1/258


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## knight of ni (Oct 8, 2006)

It's a Lupin, dammit.


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

lol. classic.

I still disagree. In sludge systems of waste water treatments, if it's present there, it will be present to some degree in quaria.

While I agree with the aformentioned studies stating that Notrospira et al are the primary nitrifiers in aquaria, I'm more than happy to also accept that there are probably to some degree nitrobacter in aquaria, especially where deeper undisturbed sand beds or anoxic zones are used.

edit: Thanks a lot. Now I don't feel like reading papers today anymore.


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## Hitch (Apr 26, 2009)

I cant believe you actually read that paper.


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

I have to. I pretty much read papers everyday - and the nerd in me needs to read that paper. 

But I must say, limnology is boring. Even when I took that mini-course at Queen's it was boring, and it still is.

Growing blood vessels though, is fun.


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## Hitch (Apr 26, 2009)

lol fair enough....

and yes I totally agree with Limnology, actually I jst consider ecology and anything that go to do with it boring...I prefer looking at tiny dots and lines on a gel.


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## ksimdjembe (Nov 11, 2006)

Be fair, gentlemen.  
As a Biology undergrad with a focus in Ecology, Entomology, Limnology myself a few years ago, I loved the ecological and evolutionary material.


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## Hitch (Apr 26, 2009)

ksimdjembe said:


> Be fair, gentlemen.
> As a Biology undergrad with a focus in Ecology, Entomology, Limnology myself a few years ago, I loved the ecological and evolutionary material.


lol...XD, sry

but im sorry....never been able to stay awake in ecology....Im sure others feel the same with microbiology.....its like oh look...its another polymerase.


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## knight of ni (Oct 8, 2006)

ameekplec. said:


> lol. classic.
> 
> I still disagree. In sludge systems of waste water treatments, if it's present there, it will be present to some degree in aquaria.


Not in my tanks. I keep low pH  and nitrobacter doesn't do anything at low pH


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

o, don't get me wrong, ecology is interesting. But limnology in particular just is not that interesting to me personally, but I'd rather be staring down a microscope watching capillaries grow in a gel matrix.

Since this thread turned into a nerding it up, I want to show you guys my latest discovery:
http://www.jnrbm.com/
Journal of Negative Results in Biomedicine - awesomeness, well, we thought it was going to be, but it turned up being nothing. lol.

Anyways, back on thread. what biomedia do you use?


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## knight of ni (Oct 8, 2006)

regarding substrate, there are competing points of view on overall surface area vs. usable spots to cling on to vs, covering over of those spots vs water flow...

personally, I think that cheapest is best, low tech is better, and smaller is better.

For biggest claim on surface area, see Tri-Based Carbon from Hyatt and denitrators in Right Now ! bacteria product

http://www.hdltd.com/products/p_tribase.html


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## Hitch (Apr 26, 2009)

ameekplec. said:


> Anyways, back on thread. what biomedia do you use?


Ehfisubstrat



knight of ni said:


> For biggest claim on surface area, see Tri-Based Carbon from Hyatt and denitrators in Right Now ! bacteria product
> 
> http://www.hdltd.com/products/p_tribase.html


I never use activate carbon in any filter..


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## knight of ni (Oct 8, 2006)

ameekplec. said:


> lol. classic.
> 
> I still disagree. In sludge systems of waste water treatments, if it's present there, it will be present to some degree in quaria.
> 
> ...


You're welcome.
I agree that it's best to go with figgerins and just so.


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

knight of ni said:


> regarding substrate, there are competing points of view on overall surface area vs. usable spots to cling on to vs, covering over of those spots vs water flow...
> 
> personally, I think that cheapest is best, low tech is better, and smaller is better.
> 
> ...


The activated carbon is an interesting substrate, as it's porosity would give a lot of surface area for bacteria, and have the added initial benefit of water polishing.

As for substrate depths, I think trying to develop a deeper, undisturbed anoxic zone also helps culture other types of bacteria - in SW systems, running a really deep sand bed (5 - 8") is known to reduce nitrates, as the anoxic ones within the substrate culture bacteria that consume nitrates.

I usually shoot for 3"+ of a fine substrate for my tanks, for aesthetics, for the plants and for a diversified biological filter.


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## knight of ni (Oct 8, 2006)

my best biofilms developed inside tubes and spraybars


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## Hitch (Apr 26, 2009)

ameekplec. said:


> The activated carbon is an interesting substrate, as it's porosity would give a lot of surface area for bacteria, and have the added initial benefit of water polishing.
> 
> As for substrate depths, I think trying to develop a deeper, undisturbed anoxic zone also helps culture other types of bacteria - in SW systems, running a really deep sand bed (5 - 8") is known to reduce nitrates, as the anoxic ones within the substrate culture bacteria that consume nitrates.
> 
> I usually shoot for 3"+ of a fine substrate for my tanks, for aesthetics, for the plants and for a diversified biological filter.


yes I have read about that for salt water. But just trying to work out the logistics for freshwater...ie, how to clean without disturbing the anoxic zones, and what about these gas pockets....

though I think increased water changes would just be better.


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## knight of ni (Oct 8, 2006)

the tri based carbon article explains it for freshwater

as to filter media; since i see the best growth inside tubes and spraybar, here's my today's invention:

you know the corrugated plastic that is used for lawn signs and such ?

Make a block it of it and run the water through the block of tubes. Comes with a long brush, to clean out each tubule every week.


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## KnaveTO (May 13, 2007)

You guys are really loosing me...


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Don't vacuum 

Perhaps the tubes and spraybars are anoxic? I know my return pipes are a lot cleaner than my outlet pipes/spray bar - perhaps going through all the aerobic bacteria in the filter makes the water anoxic, so that the return areas develop more of a bacterial colony? 

For controlling nutrients (NO3, PO4, etc), I use plants - fast growing liverworts, and mosses as a biological filter - it helps remove nitrates and keep the water highly oxygenated. I don't do a terrible many water changes, but my parameters are spot on - I do them about every two weeks ~ once a month.


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## gucci17 (Oct 11, 2007)

Hey let me ask you guys. Does boiling your media really help _refresh_ it? What would you guys recommend as a method of cleaning bio media throroughly? How about bleach?


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## Hitch (Apr 26, 2009)

KnaveTO said:


> You guys are really loosing me...


lol....read the paper...



ameekplec. said:


> Don't vacuum


Now thats just crazy talk!!

and I doubt the tubes are anoxic at all, afterall, oxygenated water is pumped through them every second. Definitely not the anoxic environment for nitrate fixers to thrive.

As for the plastic cube idea, its the same as the bio balls and bio cubes out there. But I feel like the eheim stuff or lava rock would provide a much higher surface area to volume ratio.


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## Mr Fishies (Sep 21, 2007)

knight of ni said:


> <SNIP>
> you know the corrugated plastic that is used for lawn signs and such ?
> 
> Make a block it of it and run the water through the block of tubes. Comes with a long brush, to clean out each tubule every week.


I had a heat recovery ventilator in my old house that used a big cube of directionally alternating layers of something very much like corrugated plastic. Cleaning the thing was a *huge PITA* and I didn't have to use a brush inside the hundreds (maybe thousands) of individual tubes...the idea of doing that on a regular basis would drive me around the bend.

You must be a masochist!


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Hitch said:


> and I doubt the tubes are anoxic at all, afterall, oxygenated water is pumped through them every second. Definitely not the anoxic environment for nitrate fixers to thrive.


I don't know about that. If there's enough reaction time with media and enough aerobic bacteria of any kind (not just the nitrogen fixers), the effluent from a canister has the potential to be anoxic. 
If you look at coil denitrators, they essentially are really long tubes that de-oxygenate the water allowing for nitrogen reduction - and they do work.

Although the possibility exists also that the bacteria in the canisters is reducing NH3 and NO2- to NO3, and the bacteria in the effluent tubing an spraybar grow extremely well because of the increased nitrates.


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## knight of ni (Oct 8, 2006)

> I had a heat recovery ventilator in my old house that used a big cube of directionally alternating layers of something very much like corrugated plastic. Cleaning the thing was a huge PITA and I didn't have to use a brush inside the hundreds (maybe thousands) of individual tubes...the idea of doing that on a regular basis would drive me around the bend.
> 
> You must be a masochist!


no, more into S than M. this invention is an offering for others. If the customer is very very nice, I will then sell the cube-shaped brush with long bristles.


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## Hitch (Apr 26, 2009)

gucci17 said:


> Hey let me ask you guys. Does boiling your media really help _refresh_ it? What would you guys recommend as a method of cleaning bio media throroughly? How about bleach?


what do you mean by thoroughly? you mean the cleaning during maintenance of media? or like you want to stripe all of the bacteria off there?

I have never boiled the bio media, but I would imagine the heat would kill off most of the bacteria. But you would need to worry about the type of media, its a rock based like the Eheim or lava rock, then boiling woulndt pose any problem. But if you use the sponge or plastic, the heat and time of boiling would deform and melt the plastic.

I have use the bleach thing to do a hardcore cleaning on a filter that just sad there for like a year. What I did was to fill a tank (I used a dirty 10gal...which I also wanted to clean) with a 2 to 1 solution of bleach (wear gloves..lol). stick the filter in (or in my case, set up the canister) and let it run over night. After that, I dumped all of the water out, including the ones in the cannister and refilled with tap water and ran it over night again. Repeated the process for like 2 days to ensure all traces of bleach are gone.



ameekplec. said:


> I don't know about that. If there's enough reaction time with media and enough aerobic bacteria of any kind (not just the nitrogen fixers), the effluent from a canister has the potential to be anoxic.
> If you look at coil denitrators, they essentially are really long tubes that de-oxygenate the water allowing for nitrogen reduction - and they do work.
> 
> Although the possibility exists also that the bacteria in the canisters is reducing NH3 and NO2- to NO3, and the bacteria in the effluent tubing an spraybar grow extremely well because of the increased nitrates.


maybe thats the case for large canisters or very long tubing, but I doubt the cultures would be sufficient in a normal canister.


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

knight of ni said:


> no, more into S than M. this invention is an offering for others.


lol

@Gucci, the only thing you want to do by washing them is to remove all the dedbris - nothing a good washing a several times in tank water can't do. Eheim recommends you replace the media every year (yeah right), but you can do that too, replacing 430 - 50% of the media whenever you feel necessary.

@Hitch - the fact that biofilms re really prevalent in return tubing in any system suggests that something is clearly different in there as opposed to in the intke side. I see the same thing in my reef tank too - the intake has no buildup, yet has the same flow rates as the returns - so something inside the canister is changing the water chemistry make favorable conditions for bacterial proliferation on the tube surface. Now what those conditions are, I'm not sure, but I'd be guessing it's either the anoxia or increased nutrients.


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## Hitch (Apr 26, 2009)

interesting. If it is the case that a normal canister is sufficient enough to deplete the water of oxygen, then we could actually attach another canister with bio media to culture the nitrate fixers. Ie, put the output tube of one into the intake of the second, so that all of the deoxygenated water would pass through the second filter creating an anoxic environment.


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## knight of ni (Oct 8, 2006)

NASA technology brings the Corrugated BioSprayBar for sale..attach to regular spraybar supply for thousands of micro-activated, aerating streams.


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## gucci17 (Oct 11, 2007)

What I mean is, I received some media that came along with a second-hand eheim and I have never used it. It looked really dark brown and dirty, it was the rock based eheim stuff. I tried washing it a few times but I think it is permanently stained. I just dug it up recently and wanted to see if I could bleach it back to a colour closer to white. lol...and also unclog the pores and what not from built up debris/grime that may lower the efficiency of the media.


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## Hitch (Apr 26, 2009)

Just chuck them and get new media. If they are that dirty, they prob needed to be replaced anyways.

plus, I never trust media from a second hand filter.


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## gucci17 (Oct 11, 2007)

Hitch said:


> Just chuck them and get new media. If they are that dirty, they prob needed to be replaced anyways.
> 
> plus, I never trust media from a second hand filter.


Ya I figured it's probably junk. Which is why it's been sitting in a bucket for over a year. I guess there's no real way to unclog all those pores. 

I don't actually need new media atm, just giving the fish room a thorough cleaning and found the old bucket of media.

Thanks Hitch


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## InSpirit (Mar 14, 2009)

Hitch said:


> interesting. If it is the case that a normal canister is sufficient enough to deplete the water of oxygen, then we could actually attach another canister with bio media to culture the nitrate fixers. Ie, put the output tube of one into the intake of the second, so that all of the deoxygenated water would pass through the second filter creating an anoxic environment.


Why not just design in a plenum? I always use an old Perfecto U.G. beneath any gravel system (without any lift tubes.) HMF has a built in plenum and look how long you can run those... BTW I also graduated with a microbio degree... Lots of science geeks in the hobby. As for biomedia I always use the small palring cylinder from Koch. I think volume for volume they work better than bioballs.


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## Hitch (Apr 26, 2009)

I never thought of that before. Nice idea.


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## dl88dl (Mar 8, 2010)

I use Kaldnes K1 media made by Evolution Aqua for my pond in my fluidized filter and I had some left over so I use it in all my canister filter. I like this media since it is very light and have a total surface area of 800M2. They seem to work good for me.


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## fish_luva (Nov 24, 2009)

Where can you buy this filter media by chance and would it work in eheim filters do you think? I'm looking for a cheaper source of media because i have 3 other filters that i need media for. You can email me directly if you know.
tks


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## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

I like Ehfisubstrat.. mainly because you can make about ten liters of it for seven dollars if you buy sandstone from Betz and bust it into little 1/2" cubes


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## dl88dl (Mar 8, 2010)

fish_luva said:


> Where can you buy this filter media by chance and would it work in eheim filters do you think? I'm looking for a cheaper source of media because i have 3 other filters that i need media for. You can email me directly if you know.
> tks


The K1 media is very expensive and they come in 50litres bag for around $120 tax incl. The company is in the UK but there are authorized dealers in Canada...I got it from this place which owned by Terri and Ian:

http://www.canadiankoiandpond.ca/index.html


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