# New Tank and Green Algae



## Sagittarius-Aquarius (Oct 30, 2009)

I'll start with the easier question: what's a low-budget no-fish way to eliminate green algae? Is it harmful to my fish? This is a very elementary question, I even feel stupid for asking.

Number 2, neon tetras or guppies? I'd like to set up a 5 gallon tank for Christmas for my sister. Since I am budget, this is about the best I can do. I have a tank set up, I need to get a filter, heater, hood, and light. I need suggestions here, keep in mind I am not well off, money-wise. What kind of conditions should I strive for, what are good tank mates for each, does anyone have better suggestions? Which fish are easier to keep alive? She is NEW to the highest degree. She has never kept fish on her own accord, and don't worry - NO GOLDFISH!


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## Merman (Nov 23, 2009)

Hello Sagit/Aqua,

Algae is not necessarily a bad thing for your fish, some fish eat it and it's good for them, the green algae anyways and I'm assuming that's what you've got. Green algae in and of itself is not 'dangerous', most people just find it unsightly - you want to 'see' your fish, right? Algae results from too much light, so firstly I would recommend decreasing the amount of light your tank is getting (I can only assume it's with your betta's). Putting a tank/bowl in a sunny window or other spot which receives lots of natural sunlight will definitely cause a lot of algae - not recommended. In time you may find that you will get persistent algae that grows in every little crevice (on plants - real or plastic, on ornaments, etc.) and in my experience one of the best things to get is an oto catfish, they are 'true' algae eaters unlike a lot of fish sold in the trade that, even though referred to as 'algae eaters', may only nibble a bit as an adolescent and then just grow into a drab/uncolorful fish that doesn't eat algae at all, hangs around your tank and just harrases other fish. Plants also use up light the algae would otherwise use and may help with the cycling of the tank (hopefully covered in a 'good' bacteria you will need - but then that's another story - don't want to overload on you about this here).

If your sister is new to the hobby I would recommend guppy's over neon tetras; guppies are usually more resilient when it comes to 'iffy' water conditions - and just starting out/cycling you will be having 'iffy' water conditions.

Word of warning - and not to be cynical, but: the people you go to for advice in aquarium/pet shops are not always the most informed/interested individuals - you're more likely to get good advice/disease free fish from older looking/mom 'n pop type shops as opposed to the big warehouse type stores - though the latter CAN be best for better prices on equipment (they buy in larger quantities so....).

A lot of people beginning in the hobby get really turned off and frustrated when they do everything as instructed only to find their fish have some communicable disease - you don't need the frustrations. Check the sites buy/sell/trade sections for guppies/plants and I'm sure someone will be able to hook you up with some very healthy and cheaper specimens.

Remember - there are no stupid questions....been on this site for a very short time and from what I can tell everyone is friendly and helpful - we've all been there. You'll get better advice here than in most shops.

I know a lot is being thrown at you but it's one of the simplest and rewarding hobbies going...I'm not sure about the sizes/models for equipment for smaller tanks so maybe somebody else will cover that for you - Good Luck.


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## Sagittarius-Aquarius (Oct 30, 2009)

Thank you very much for your help Merman!

I don't think much more action is needed than to move his tank. I put him in a shady place, but there's a chance it gets sunlight at some point during the day. As long as it isn't harmful, I'm not too worried.

As for first fish, I'm leaning towards guppies. They're very pretty to kids I'm sure (don't worry, she's not young enough to be irresponsible with them). Danios might even be a more viable option, I already have a happy leopard Danio (living in a community tank) who I'm sure would love company.


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## AquaNeko (Jul 26, 2009)

Sagittarius-Aquarius said:


> I'll start with the easier question: what's a low-budget no-fish way to eliminate green algae? Is it harmful to my fish? This is a very elementary question, I even feel stupid for asking.
> 
> Number 2, neon tetras or guppies? I'd like to set up a 5 gallon tank for Christmas for my sister. Since I am budget, this is about the best I can do. I have a tank set up, I need to get a filter, heater, hood, and light. I need suggestions here, keep in mind I am not well off, money-wise. What kind of conditions should I strive for, what are good tank mates for each, does anyone have better suggestions? Which fish are easier to keep alive? She is NEW to the highest degree. She has never kept fish on her own accord, and don't worry - NO GOLDFISH!


NO stupid questions at all. Better to ask then learn the hard way which many of us have been down one time or the other.

Something to think about as well with your tank setup. Here is a site with good stocking options for 5 gal tanks. 5-29gal stocking.

If you already have an established fish tank then you may want to cut off part of your filter pad and give it to your sisters filter so that it can cycle faster in the tank. Also consider getting a few shrimp in the tank. Makes for a up/down viewing pleasure with fish on top and the shrimp running around on the bottom feeding.

I'll throw in a few fish options as well.

White Cloud Minnows (WCM) are also a fish to consider. They are HARDY and tolorate a wide temp and pH range. They are also omnivories which I've noticed mine picking on tiny bits of algae for extra food.

Rosy Red Minnows are like the WCM's in range/temp and hardy. Also cheap to boot. Often sold as feeders for $0.17 at Petsmart. They come in orange-red and silver. The silver is the Flathead Minnow IIRC. They will follow your finger around thinking of food I've noticed.

How old is your sister anyways? Both fish mentioned are very low maintanence (sp?) and low polluters in my experience. So if she's really young it won't be much of a chore to maintain them.

As for the algae you may want to look into getting 1-2 snails in there. Avoid ram snails and pond snails. Most pet shops have snails for sale. Just make sure the snail type is NOT hermerpradite (sp), meaning dual-sexed and can self reproduce. Then snails will be a nice clean up crew.

Then again if you want a fish with some funny/cute and personality try a dwarf puffer and you don't have to worry about a snail problem as they'll hunt them down.  Downside is those fish have very few compatible tank mates and limited to shrimp and the loveable otocat.

Check out the dwarf gourami. Nice colors!


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## Sagittarius-Aquarius (Oct 30, 2009)

AquaNeko said:


> NO stupid questions at all. Better to ask then learn the hard way which many of us have been down one time or the other.
> 
> Something to think about as well with your tank setup. Here is a site with good stocking options for 5 gal tanks. 5-29gal stocking.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the input, the site was very useful. I like the idea of several ghost shrimp (though I wonder if they'll get picked on or eaten?) scuttling along the substrate. I was thinking of giving her a golden mystery snail, as they cannot reproduce sexually. I'm giving her some filter junk to cycle things faster, for sure. She's going to be one happy little child.


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## AquaNeko (Jul 26, 2009)

Sagittarius-Aquarius said:


> Thanks for the input, the site was very useful. I like the idea of several ghost shrimp (though I wonder if they'll get picked on or eaten?) scuttling along the substrate. I was thinking of giving her a golden mystery snail, as they cannot reproduce sexually. I'm giving her some filter junk to cycle things faster, for sure. She's going to be one happy little child.


You might want to keep that snail in quarntine unless you know it's gender. If it's male then no problems. If it's female better to isolate and wait a while just to make sure she's not pregnant and laying eggs around. Not familiar with snail you mentioned and I'm not sure if some snails can delay birth (I remember reading something on that before online.... I think it was on snails..but I could be wrong) tho if you have baby snails they'll work safer on the clean up till you can visibly see them then pluck them out or give them away.

http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/inv/ghostshrimp.php

~1in max size tho the ones I've seen in the store (BigAl's NY @ .43cents/ea) are ~1/2" for sale. Most stores I've seen their shrimp are about 1/2" when at sale. Having looked at the neon tetras and guppies before I highly doubt they can eat them whole at all. They may peak at them is what I'm thinking. I've never owned guppies, neon tetras, or shrimp before but having seen the animals in person I'd be willing to bet on the shrimp not being eaten.


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## Sagittarius-Aquarius (Oct 30, 2009)

AquaNeko said:


> You might want to keep that snail in quarntine unless you know it's gender. If it's male then no problems. If it's female better to isolate and wait a while just to make sure she's not pregnant and laying eggs around. Not familiar with snail you mentioned and I'm not sure if some snails can delay birth (I remember reading something on that before online.... I think it was on snails..but I could be wrong) tho if you have baby snails they'll work safer on the clean up till you can visibly see them then pluck them out or give them away.
> 
> http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/inv/ghostshrimp.php
> 
> ~1in max size tho the ones I've seen in the store (BigAl's NY @ .43cents/ea) are ~1/2" for sale. Most stores I've seen their shrimp are about 1/2" when at sale. Having looked at the neon tetras and guppies before I highly doubt they can eat them whole at all. They may peak at them is what I'm thinking. I've never owned guppies, neon tetras, or shrimp before but having seen the animals in person I'd be willing to bet on the shrimp not being eaten.


I think I'll get neon tetras for her, or perhaps minnows. The smaller, the better. Just to keep the shrimp safe (though hiding places are also in order for sure).

As for the snail, I think it's male. It's been with us for a month or so now, and no snail babies in sight. Of course, if they can delay birth, I'd better be prepared to give a few away.


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## Byronicle (Apr 18, 2009)

if you are worried about the safety of your shrimp you can still buy guppies, i keep guppies in my shrimp tank and they are more scared of the shrimp, its funny seeing little shrimplets swim towards them and they would back off


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## mointhehouse128 (Feb 7, 2009)

That's weird Byronicle...my guppies chase my shrimp around, but they don't eat them.

I'm just wondering...I had my Anubias plant grow some algae in spots that were dark green, I think they are called gravel algae or diatoms? What algae-eating shrimp would eat this algae...and fast?


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## bae (May 11, 2007)

Do you live in the same house as your sister? Just how enthusiastic is she about having a fish tank? If you live with her, you can take over if she loses enthusiasm or runs into problems. You haven't said how old she is, but the responsibility for all the details of keeping the fish healthy may be too much for her, unless she's really keen on it. A bad experience could put her off for a long time. You want this tank to be a pleasure, not a burden, or worse, a source of guilt and feelings of failure.

I'd recommend a 10 gallon tank, if possible. It's much easier to keep conditions stable. You can often find deals on used equipment. Try pnaquaria.ca -- it's another BBS with more buy and sell ads than this one, but not much activity in other forums. If her house is kept at least 72F (22C), you don't really need a heater for guppies. I think guppies might be the most interesting for her -- it's very exciting to have them produce babies, the individual fish can be identified and they have more interesting behaviour than neons or danios. Danios are very active fish that will do better in a good sized group in a longer tank, anyway. Start with a pair or trio, so there will be capacity for the juveniles. Let her pick them out, if possible. I also recommend getting the fish from someobdy on this BBS, since there seems to be an epidemic of camallanus worms, an insidious parasite, in many of the shops these days. The less highly-bred guppies tend to be tougher and easier to care for than the show quality ones, but quite varied in color and form and very interesting to see how the babies turn out. It used to be possible to recommend feeder guppies, which are closer to the wild ones in form, and very tough, but with all the disease going around, you'd be taking a chance.

Mystery snails lay large blobs of eggs above the water line and it takes some effort to hatch them successfully, so don't worry about a population explosion. They do get a bit large and represent a significant bioload, so don't forget to take that into account when deciding how many fish will be okay.

I think you'll have to teach her a number of things that you take for granted. It's really easy for a child to catastrophically overfeed. Suggest to her that the fishes' eyes are about the size of their stomachs, when estimating how much food to give them. Show her how much, and to check if there's leftover food after five minutes, and if so, feed less next time.

Get her a gravel siphon and a couple of those bright-colored 1-2gallon paint buckets for waste water. Show her how to use these -- they should be light weight enough for her to carry to the toilet. Or you can get free food-safe larger plastic buckets from bakeries and donut shops -- frostings and fillings are shipped in them. She shouldn't fill them fuller than she can carry, and they will be less likely to slop over. Spread newspapers or a towel on the floor to soak up spills. I've got a bunch of 2-liter plastic soy milk jugs that can be used for the fresh water that you can have if you don't drink things out of similar sized jugs. She should be able to lift these and hold them to slowly pour fresh water into the tank. I suppose pop bottles would work about as well. Show her how to match temperatures and add dechlorinator. Emphasize that nothing should be cleaned with soap or detergent, since traces can kill fish.

If you have plants and don't overstock or overfeed and do regular partial water changes a filter isn't really necessary either. I can give you some naias and moss, which don't need a lot of light and will provide cover for the baby guppies. You can get a glass cover for the tank cut for you for a few bucks at a glass shops, but ask first how much it will cost! Measure very carefully or take the tank with you, and ask them to cut the glass from their scrap pile and to smooth the edges. You want the pieces to rest on the ledge of the plastic molding, but not fit too tightly, and to have a small gap between them to make them easier to lift. Glue or tape something to one piece so you can lift it, or have the two pieces overlap.

You can rig a lamp from an old clamp lamp or desk lamp with a CFL bulb if you don't want to make or buy an aquarium light. Now that there are CFLs, it's easy to make a reasonable aquarium light inexpensively if you are handy. You can use a scrap of metal eavestrough and two endcaps, or for a very small tank, a metal loaf pan. You can get a loaf pan a lot cheaper at a charity store like Goodwill than buying a new one.

Another approach you might take would be to buy her a book about aquaria for Christmas, with a promise to help her get started if she wants to take on the work and responsibility after reading the book. Again, I don't know how old she is. One book I recommend to adults is The New Aquarium Handbook by Ines Scheurmann, published by Barrons. I don't know if it's still in print. Look around for books you think might suit her reading level. You can view a lot of them in the big box pet stores, but you may be able to buy them substantially more cheaply on line.

I think the more involved she is in the project of acquiring the parts and setting up the tank the more it will maintain her interest than just having the complete setup appear on Christmas morning. She'll have more of a feeling that it's hers if she gets to make some of the decisions.


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## Byronicle (Apr 18, 2009)

mointhehouse128 said:


> That's weird Byronicle...my guppies chase my shrimp around, but they don't eat them.


lol well guppies are actually brave when they have numbers, at UofT they do studies to see how "brave" guppies are, where guppies would approach things in groups to see whether they are predators or not. My guppies are just not brave i guess


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