# Dwarf Puffer in quarantine tank and help questions.



## AquaNekoMobile (Feb 26, 2010)

Ok, I got the DP in a 1gal bow tank after about 4hrs of acclimation earlier today.

The tank setup is:

*Equipment*
-1 Gal Mini Bow
-Hydor 25W adjustable full subersible
-Mercury thermometer
-7W incandesent light
-Eco-complete (used) substrate
-~4-5" Plastic anubius/banana plant from the 5 in 1 package from PetsMart 
-Topfin sunken barrels decoration (mainly for cover for the DP)
-Prime water conditioner
-Seachem Excel
-Zip tied small pieces of broken up driftwood tiny branches and rubberband to a slab of rock (rock+driftwood+j.fern has been in the 1gal 'sweetie' tank for months with CRS and RCS so it seems the rock is stable)
-Rena 50 air pump
-BigAl's check valve (installed per diagram)
-Default blue ~1" cylinder air stone

*Tank setup*
-Gh 120
-Kh 80
-pH 7.5 (North York tap water)
-NO2 0
-NO3 20
-Temp 24C (triple verified identical thermometer, Mastercraft digital laser temp gun, and the expensive Extech IR/laser temp gun)
-Room/Area temp 18-19C (two magnet thermometers at different places in the area)
-Dosed 0.05mL Seachem Excel

-UGF filter w/ strips of mature filter floss from my 10gal AC20 filter snipped, half squeezed t release mum, and stuffed into the air tube.

-Mature 2" x 2" x 0.5" sponge pad squeezed and rinsed in Prime'ed water from AC20 stick behind the heater.

-Squeezed and rinsed mature heavily mum'ed filter floss another AC20 into the tank.

-Light timer is set to IIRC 6-7hrs

*Plant & Livestock*

-1 x DP
-3 x Small Ramhorn snails for food (~1-2mm) or in mean time mum cleaners till the DP is hungry to eat them.
-3 x Small Java fern on driftwood

Now for my questions.

1. How long does it take for the DP to adjust to it's new conditions?

2. The DP does not seem to want to eat the snails. (tho it did peck at ~1-2mm one when I dropped it in during acclimation)

3. The DP seems to stay away from me when I approach the tank and hides in the back of the tank swimming side to side and up and down sometimes coming to the front of the tank where I dropped the snails.

4. The DP's tail was curled all during transport, full acclimation, and still right now.

Thanks in advance for any help.


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## trailblazer295 (Mar 7, 2010)

A 1g tank is to small for a DP, you should have a 5g tank for one instead. Most fish tend to be skittish to movement when they are new to a tank.


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## Ciddian (Mar 15, 2006)

I keep my Dp in a 5 gallon tank. He actually used to belong to Reclove. ^_^ Lil thing is still going strong!

I keep shrimps in with him because he likes to eat the shrimplets. Even after all of this time having the little thing he/she is still very shy.

If you want a fish with a lot more in your face ness you could always try a green spot one day. Their care and tank demands are much more different however.


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## AquaNekoMobile (Feb 26, 2010)

I should clearify the 1gal -IS- the quarantine tank. I plan on a 2-4 week QT as I got them at the LFS.

BTW any places that sell ghost shrimp in singles then as a big group?


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## characinfan (Dec 24, 2008)

Your DP will show its face more once it begins to associate you with FOOD. They're pretty smart. If you feed bloodworms on a toothpick, it will come to the toothpick once it smells the worms. Just stay still because they are very visually oriented and until it's used to you, might get spooked by any sudden movement. Later on, it will understand that anything on the toothpick is food.

As for the snails, it might still be afraid and stressed from the move. I predict the snails won't be alive in a few days. . .

Give the fish at least a week to start resuming completely normal behaviour. So long as there are places to hide (which you have provided) and food (snails) around, it won't starve.


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## AquaNekoMobile (Feb 26, 2010)

characinfan said:


> Your DP will show its face more once it begins to associate you with FOOD. They're pretty smart. If you feed bloodworms on a toothpick, it will come to the toothpick once it smells the worms. Just stay still because they are very visually oriented and until it's used to you, might get spooked by any sudden movement. Later on, it will understand that anything on the toothpick is food.
> 
> As for the snails, it might still be afraid and stressed from the move. I predict the snails won't be alive in a few days. . .
> 
> Give the fish at least a week to start resuming completely normal behaviour. So long as there are places to hide (which you have provided) and food (snails) around, it won't starve.


Well right now it's hiding out in the back and coming up front a little but not staying up front. When I'm away from the room for a while them come back I see it hovering in the front. Right now I'm staying a distance away and it seems like the DP is coming out front but when I get close or up to the tank it falls back.

I guess yah it's the move and being stressed out. I'm hoping DP's are hardy enough and not hyper sensitive from all the migration from bag to drip container to being scooped up in a cup then being put into the new tank. Just wanted to say that incase someone thought I netted the DP. IIRC DP's or puffers in general should not be netted and taken out of the tank in the air as they can puff up.

Should I keep the 1-2mm ramhorns in the tank or should I put some 3-4mm ones? Or a ~1cm ramhorn? I've got that greenish brown mum all over the tank right now and I did stir the gravel a bit with a bamboo skewer hoping to even out the mum out but stopped after a little stirring as was not sure if it'll add more stressing to the DP. My thinking of the large ramhorns is three fold. 1. They can breed and the eggs hatch in the tank and the DP can eat as it pleases. 2. Hoping they will eat more mum then the small snails. 3. Easier to find the larger snail bodies then the small ones given the black substrate.

I'm thinking of attaching a aquaponic setup to the DP tank to keep the water really clean of nitrates by capping the air tube so it lifts the water into a gatorade bottle (or two) then falling back into the tank via the back opening on the tanks hood opening.


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## characinfan (Dec 24, 2008)

AquaNekoMobile said:


> Should I keep the 1-2mm ramhorns in the tank or should I put some 3-4mm ones? Or a ~1cm ramhorn? I've got that greenish brown mum all over the tank right now and I did stir the gravel a bit with a bamboo skewer hoping to even out the mum out but stopped after a little stirring as was not sure if it'll add more stressing to the DP. My thinking of the large ramhorns is three fold. 1. They can breed and the eggs hatch in the tank and the DP can eat as it pleases. 2. Hoping they will eat more mum then the small snails. 3. Easier to find the larger snail bodies then the small ones given the black substrate.


In my experience with DPs, all ramshorns will be killed. It's just a question of when. While your fish is recovering from its move, the snails might look safe, but, seriously, it's just a matter of time. You can breed the snails, all right -- just not in the DP tank!

Smaller snails are better because DPs can suck the entire soft part out of the shell. With larger snails, they'll just bite the heads off, leaving bits of meat at the back of the shell. This meat can rot and lower the water quality.

Good luck. You seem to be doing everything right an in a few days your fish will be less scared of you and more curious about you and you'll get to see its (cold blooded snail killing machine) personality emerge.

Oh yeah, if you are concerned about algae, MTS will help. MTS are harder for puffers to kill (though DPs can kill them on occasion) because

1. they are nocturnal, whereas DPs are daylight hunters
2. they can bury themselves in the substrate to hide
3. (most important for safety from puffers) they have an operculum, or a little shelly "door" that they can close over themselves when they're tucked away inside the shell. Ramshorns don't have an operculum, which makes them much easier to kill for small puffers that don't have a big enough mouth to crunch down on the shells, but which can still suck out the meat through the shell opening.

With MTS you won't have an algae problem, even in a puffer tank.


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## AquaNekoMobile (Feb 26, 2010)

So is my QT setup ok people? Not sure if I should treat for ICH. I checked the DP and pending the lighting the eyes sometimes look a bit cloudly. I don't think I see any white spots on it's body but it is hard to check the DP as often it's one side that shows then it hovers away.

I've got a 48' 2 x 32W 6500k hanging over the 1gal and the 1gals for the 7W incandesent. When the 7W is off the tank does have shade over the tank. I don't have much space so the minibow tank is on my growbed under the growlights on my rack.


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## AquaNekoMobile (Feb 26, 2010)

characinfan said:


> In my experience with DPs, all ramshorns will be killed. It's just a question of when. While your fish is recovering from its move, the snails might look safe, but, seriously, it's just a matter of time. You can breed the snails, all right -- just not in the DP tank!
> 
> Smaller snails are better because DPs can suck the entire soft part out of the shell. With larger snails, they'll just bite the heads off, leaving bits of meat at the back of the shell. This meat can rot and lower the water quality.
> 
> Good luck. You seem to be doing everything right an in a few days your fish will be less scared of you and more curious about you and you'll get to see its (cold blooded snail killing machine) personality emerge.


I heard females are not as agressive as males. Then again being so small and from many sites I've seen that it's pretty impossible to tell if it's fe/male till it's older. Speaking of rotting snails and Boxing Day sales I think BA's has tongs for sale when I was there. I may pick me up some for plucking snail bodies out.

BTW is that 1" sizing the body or overall nose to tail?


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## characinfan (Dec 24, 2008)

Don't treat for ich unless the fish's life is in extreme danger! Without scales, puffers don't do well with anti-ich medicine.

Also, female puffers are less aggressive _with each other_ than males are, but they are equally aggressive with snails! (I'm not sure about other fish because I've had puffers interact with my headstanders only once -- when I had too much of a snail problem in the headstander tank -- and the puffers were initially totally freaked out by the headstanders probably just because of their size. Within hours, though, they realized that the headstanders were harmless, started to ignore them, and went on a snail killing spree).


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## characinfan (Dec 24, 2008)

Your QT setup sounds fine. Relax!!!

Give the fish a few days and let it become accustomed to its new surroundings. A healthy and minimally-stressed fish is the best defense against ich.

(And, yes, your fish is too young to sex. Males will get a dark stripe on the belly, whereas females' bellies remain totally white).


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## AquaNekoMobile (Feb 26, 2010)

characinfan said:


> Your QT setup sounds fine. Relax!!!
> 
> Give the fish a few days and let it become accustomed to its new surroundings. A healthy and minimally-stressed fish is the best defense against ich.
> 
> (And, yes, your fish is too young to sex. Males will get a dark stripe on the belly, whereas females' bellies remain totally white).


Thanks for the help mate. Just a bit antsy over the DP that's all as I held back for a long time and it was more of a spur of the moment buy then when I saw them in the store and another couple looking at them tho I did research on it a while back. Wasn't expecting to buy the DP then but it's so hard to hold back from the cuteness. I'm hoping I can train it to take flakes and freeze dried bloodworms along with the snails.

I do have a snail breeding 5gal bucket.  Had it for a while and kept it in the corner whenever I found a snail and I didn't feel like squishing it and letting it live I'd put it into the snail bucket then with eventual plans for a DP back then and now that I have a DP it'll have a feast.


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## Jackson (Jan 30, 2009)

One reason they die on people is starvation. People feed them only flakes and other store bought foods forgetting they have four teeth that need to be looked after. If you can feed it snails as part of it's regular diet then do so. Snails are very important they help maintain the teeth from overgrowth. 

My puffers only get krill if I don't have snails,worms or crayfish. 
I also own a huge baby Mbu who is scared or goldfish and it's own shadow so feeding is always fun. It's the only time it shows it's true self lol


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## AquaNekoMobile (Feb 26, 2010)

Jackson said:


> One reason they die on people is starvation. People feed them only flakes and other store bought foods forgetting they have four teeth that need to be looked after. If you can feed it snails as part of it's regular diet then do so. Snails are very important they help maintain the teeth from overgrowth.
> 
> My puffers only get krill if I don't have snails,worms or crayfish.
> I also own a huge baby Mbu who is scared or goldfish and it's own shadow so feeding is always fun. It's the only time it shows it's true self lol


According to http://dwarfpuffers.com/ under 'feeding'



> Regular pond snails are best because they have thinner shells and they are easier for the puffs to get to. As far as Dwarf Puffers needing snails in their diet to "wear down" their teeth, it has been agreed upon by most in the forum that they are not necessary for this. Dwarf Puffers seem to have no problems at all with overgrown teeth (unlike almost all other puffer species).


I think why people agree on that is because it's such a small fish even I wonder how they can grow wabbit teef  that need wearing down. Still if I can get my DP on 50/50 live/dry food the dry food would help a lot when I'm on trips or such so I can have an auto feeder feed a small amount of food so puffy can still have food.


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## Jackson (Jan 30, 2009)

Personally speaking that site us the same as tiger craze dot com. Worthless!

Read what you posted. They have agreed upon that info throughout the forum. LOL now that is reassuring.

Stick to this site and ask questions here.
http://www.thepufferforum.com/forum/ug.php/v/PufferPedia/Freshwater/C_Travancoricus/

No speculation there.


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## carmenh (Dec 20, 2009)

+1 The Puffer Forum is awesome. You will always get your questions answered by someone who seriously knows their stuff!
Just be careful, hearing about all the different types can lead to addiction 



Jackson said:


> Personally speaking that site us the same as tiger craze dot com. Worthless!
> 
> Read what you posted. They have agreed upon that info throughout the forum. LOL now that is reassuring.
> 
> ...


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## AquaNekoMobile (Feb 26, 2010)

What should be my Excel dosing for the 1gal tank? Is 0.05mL daily dose ok? I've only done one dose since the tank was setup on Boxing Day.

Also how long can a DP stay in a 1gal tank? How much does a DP grow a month? How long till it reaches max size?


Thanks.


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

I have to ask - but what is in your 5g tank that you can't introduce your puffer? I mean, I'm all for QT and all, but I can't imagine you could keep much more than just the DT in the 5g anyway. So what is the point? The smaller tank is likely just adding stress anyway.

QT works, I'm not debating that. There comes a point, though, where QT just isn't worthwhile. I think most will agree that it isn't this parasite, or that bacteria strain that kill fish - it is stress. Stress hurts their immune system and allows for bacterial infections to wreak havoc. 

If you want my opinion, I'd put him in his home and let him adapt there.

1g is too small for anything in my opinion.


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

Just as a side note, regarding your last post: If the tank is a QT tank, why are you dosing anything at all? I don't think that amount of excel will hurt the little guy, but why are we adding chemicals to a tank that is supposed to be a QT tank?


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## AquaNekoMobile (Feb 26, 2010)

Chris S said:


> Just as a side note, regarding your last post: If the tank is a QT tank, why are you dosing anything at all? I don't think that amount of excel will hurt the little guy, but why are we adding chemicals to a tank that is supposed to be a QT tank?


It's for the live plants I have in the tank at the moment. I also was wondering on the growth as I plan on keep the DP in for a months time for QT while I ready the other tank and find some other supplies I need.


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## carmenh (Dec 20, 2009)

I would agree with Chris, get him in the bigger tank asap. A lot of "pros" feel that puffers stunt and sustain organ damage much more quickly than "regular" fish. Again, they produce a lot of waste for their size and are scaleless and so they are much more affected by the toxins caused by that waste. If water quality is anything but perfect, it's really going to risk his health...and it's damn near impossible to keep perfect water with a puff in 1 g, except by constant huge WC's, which will stress him...


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## AquaNekoMobile (Feb 26, 2010)

I currently have the 1gal tank attached to 1 x 2L external grow bed filter filled with fully cycled hydroton and 2 basil plants that are uptaking nitrates like crazy along with a cloned just rooted basil plant. 

The 1 gal is over filtered at the current moment and since I connected the external growbed and given it a few hours to run I'm testing 0 nitrites and 0 nitrates from 20 nitrates before.

My other tank should be ready by the end of the QT time.


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## AquaNekoMobile (Feb 26, 2010)

Sweet I just saw my first DP snack! It inhaled a small ~2mm thin flat spiral snail completely.  

It seems to be a little more coming out now and less hiding.


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## carmenh (Dec 20, 2009)

Nice  Glad to hear it!


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## AquaNekoMobile (Feb 26, 2010)

Just got back to check up on the DP. Yup... inhaled another snail.   Tho seems to naturally curious about the freeze dried bloodworm that is floating on the top of the tank. Saw a few passes by with what looked like no interest then had that 'about to attack a snail' hover side to side motion while looking at it. Didn't see any nibbles yet.


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