# My phosphate reading is zero but....



## goldfish (Nov 22, 2011)

hi Forum.

My 90G tank (with 100lbs live rock) have been running for about 8 months now and I'm still getting some green algae, brown algae on the rocks and some bubble algae. I decided to recently test for phosphate level and it read zero (Nitrate is also zero).

I have chaeto in my refugium and I'm also running a GFO - what does it all mean? 

How come I still have algae?

Is the algae consuming the nitrate/phosphate or the cheato and GFO? The chaeto is growing okay but not at an alarming rate.

Is it my lighting duration too much? I'm running T5 (4 bulbs - 2 white/2 blue) lights (starting with blue around 4:30pm, then white comes on around 7:00pm). Both lights come off at 11:00pm and my acitinic light comes on and turns off around 11:45pm.

Thanks.


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## advanced reef aquatics (Apr 20, 2009)

Are you sure your test kits are correct. good quality? D.I on your R.O.?
Live rock was clean when you bought it?


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## JulieFish (Apr 8, 2011)

I'm going to start by saying that I'm not a reef algae expert or anything. I am a biologist though 

I still had lots of nuisance algae at 8 months. I was frustrated but kept picking at it intermittently. I still have small, isolated clumps of green hair algae and everyone's tank that I've seen grows some brown algae on the glass, which means that it's growing on the rocks too. Don't forget: *nature abhors a vacuum*. That is, if you have an empty spot in your tank, something will grow there, especially if it is lit. slow them down considerably using snails (how's your clean up crew?) and try to encourage other, more desirable things to grow instead - corals, coralline algae, other sessile inverts. Now I'm more like 18 months running and I get MUCH less nuisance algae than I got at 8 months... but still a bit. I also have much more coralline than I had before, and I think that makes quite a difference, because it outcompetes the nuisance types. I think finding that balance is part of the beast.

Also make sure you're not overfeeding, of course. In my tank, there was no silver bullet for algae... but it has mostly gone away slowly (remember nothing good happens fast!) oh also remember that once it has grown, it will remain unless you or a helpful critter removes it. So is it just still there or is it still growing? That is, if you pick some out, does it come back? If so how quickly?


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

JulieFish said:


> I'm going to start by saying that I'm not a reef algae expert or anything. I am a biologist though
> 
> I still had lots of nuisance algae at 8 months. I was frustrated but kept picking at it intermittently. I still have small, isolated clumps of green hair algae and everyone's tank that I've seen grows some brown algae on the glass, which means that it's growing on the rocks too. Don't forget: *nature abhors a vacuum*. That is, if you have an empty spot in your tank, something will grow there, especially if it is lit. slow them down considerably using snails (how's your clean up crew?) and try to encourage other, more desirable things to grow instead - corals, coralline algae, other sessile inverts. Now I'm more like 18 months running and I get MUCH less nuisance algae than I got at 8 months... but still a bit. I also have much more coralline than I had before, and I think that makes quite a difference, because it outcompetes the nuisance types. I think finding that balance is part of the beast.
> 
> Also make sure you're not overfeeding, of course. In my tank, there was no silver bullet for algae... but it has mostly gone away slowly (remember nothing good happens fast!) oh also remember that once it has grown, it will remain unless you or a helpful critter removes it. So is it just still there or is it still growing? That is, if you pick some out, does it come back? If so how quickly?


Not really true. If you have algae there is something wrong with the chemical balance.

I never had it in any of my tanks. probably because, I am always running phosbans reactors with phosphate removal and carbon from BRS.

I am not knowledgeable to discuss chemical processes, but I just state the fact and my water always clear. Ask the people who seen my tanks and believe I have very heavy bio load

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## goldfish (Nov 22, 2011)

I used the ati test kit for nitrate and salifert for phosphate

I don't have a lot of green algae but some

It doesn't come back too fast once I clean it up but still there

Could over feeding be the issue? I only feed 1 per day using flakes, pellets and frozen food. Most of it is gone within a few minutes.

When I started my tank, I used tap water and I had an issue with green hair algae - after 1 month, I quickly switched to RO/DI unit.

I'm pretty good at doing 20% water change on a weekly basis
Thanks


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

probably your user name does not fit SW tank 

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## goldfish (Nov 22, 2011)

sig said:


> probably your user name does not fit SW tank


Sorry Sig - "Dogface puffer" name was already taken.


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## JulieFish (Apr 8, 2011)

do you have some snails? clean up crew?


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## goldfish (Nov 22, 2011)

Yes i got cerith snails and trochus snails (they multiply like crazy) but they don't do a good job cleaning the algae up.


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## smcx (Mar 31, 2012)

Might your lighting be an issue? Too full spectrum (yellow/red) and or too long a photo period?


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## goldfish (Nov 22, 2011)

smcx said:


> Might your lighting be an issue? Too full spectrum (yellow/red) and or too long a photo period?


I'm running T5 (4 bulbs - 2 white/2 blue) lights (starting with blue around 4:30pm, then white comes on around 7:00pm). Both lights come off at 11:00pm and my acitinic light comes on and turns off around 11:45pm.

I don't think that's too long of a photo period, do you?


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Skimmer?

Also, you might be feeding a lot. Seems like a pretty intense feeding, especially if your skimmer is underpowered.
Is there a lot of crud collecting everywhere? In the chaeto? Under the chaeto?

If you're getting a lot of detrius collecting, your flow probably isn't sufficient/optimal, and the export (filter socks, skimmer, etc) isn't sufficient. This crap can break down and greatly aid unwanted algae growth.

Also, besides the algae, what have you got in the tank?


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## WiseGuyPhil (Jun 15, 2011)

Underpowered skimmer is what I was thinking as well but something else caught my attention.

If your running GFO, where do you have the return line from the reactor? The reason I ask is you should always have it return back into the skimmer chamber. Like any phosphate absorbing material, it will break down and put organic componds back into the tank. This is typically why people run GFO and Carbon because the Carbon helps remove some of those compounds. Putting the return line back into the skimmer chamber will help remove a lot of waste produced from GFO. This should be done for any type of phosphate reducer including biopellets.



ameekplec. said:


> Skimmer?
> 
> Also, you might be feeding a lot. Seems like a pretty intense feeding, especially if your skimmer is underpowered.
> Is there a lot of crud collecting everywhere? In the chaeto? Under the chaeto? ...


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## goldfish (Nov 22, 2011)

ameekplec. said:


> Skimmer?
> 
> Also, you might be feeding a lot. Seems like a pretty intense feeding, especially if your skimmer is underpowered.
> Is there a lot of crud collecting everywhere? In the chaeto? Under the chaeto?
> ...


I only feed once a day - I don't think it's intense feeding.

My tank has only been running for 8 months and I don't have that much crud anywhere. My skimmer collects (I think normal amount of liquid waste) and I empty it every 3 days.

Could it be where the algae is growing are dead spots? I have 2 powerheads + main return in my DT - only thing is that the powerhead is not pointing downwards - could that be the issue?

I only have 8 fish in there, plus some zoas, GSP and some mushrooms.


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## smcx (Mar 31, 2012)

hmm... I'm a noob so I'm just throwing things out there. How long do you have light on your cheato? Give it lots of light and it should out-compete the other algae?


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## goldfish (Nov 22, 2011)

wiseguyphil said:


> Underpowered skimmer is what I was thinking as well but something else caught my attention.
> 
> If your running GFO, where do you have the return line from the reactor? The reason I ask is you should always have it return back into the skimmer chamber. Like any phosphate absorbing material, it will break down and put organic componds back into the tank. This is typically why people run GFO and Carbon because the Carbon helps remove some of those compounds. Putting the return line back into the skimmer chamber will help remove a lot of waste produced from GFO. This should be done for any type of phosphate reducer including biopellets.


I have the intake (powerhead) of the GFO sitting in the sump right before the skimmer and the return line is back into the filter sock.

I put a live rock in the sump and initially it had algae on it but now there's no more (so I think the GFO is working).


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## goldfish (Nov 22, 2011)

smcx said:


> hmm... I'm a noob so I'm just throwing things out there. How long do you have light on your cheato? Give it lots of light and it should out-compete the other algae?


24x7 - it's growing well in the refugium.


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## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

For the bubble algae control, it's hit or miss with emerald crabs and rabbit fish.


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

goldfish said:


> 24x7 - it's growing well in the refugium.


you should have lights on when lights in DT is off. It will help to maintain constant PH level.

Chaeto will not grow if you do not have nitrates in the tank, even if you put MH as the light

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## goldfish (Nov 22, 2011)

sig said:


> you should have lights on when lights in DT is off. It will help to maintain constant PH level.
> 
> Chaeto will not grow if you do not have nitrates in the tank, even if you put MH as the light


That's what I had originally but the chaeto wasn't growing very much and actually dying. Someone on the forum suggested running lights 24x7 and it's been growing ever since.

How does the PH level relate to the algae growth?


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## TypeZERO (Jul 20, 2007)

Having your refuge lights opposite to your display Helps maintain a stable ph for your tank water. Daytime your display has light so photosynthesis happens in your display using up the co2 at a somewhat constant rate. At night the refuge does the photosynthesis and uses the co2 at a somewhat constant rate. So if it's opposite youll maintain an overall constant level of co2 in your tank. Co2 concentration effects ph.


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

goldfish said:


> That's what I had originally but the chaeto wasn't growing very much and actually dying. Someone on the forum suggested running lights 24x7 and it's been growing ever since.
> 
> How does the PH level relate to the algae growth?


thats how it works on this forum.  One with 2 weeks experience advices another with 1 week experience. 

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## goldfish (Nov 22, 2011)

sig said:


> thats how it works on this forum.  One with 2 weeks experience advices another with 1 week experience.


So Sig - Are you the one with 1 week or 2 week experience?


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

goldfish said:


> So Sig - Are you the one with 1 week or 2 week experience?


I have no experience at all. I do know my tank, but each tank is different depending on hundreds factors and what works for me probably won't work for you.

Until you guys will join the Reef central and start reading sticky threads there your tanks will always suffer.
It is less costly to learn on mistakes of others.

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## WiseGuyPhil (Jun 15, 2011)

goldfish said:


> That's what I had originally but the chaeto wasn't growing very much and actually dying. Someone on the forum suggested running lights 24x7 and it's been growing ever since.
> 
> How does the PH level relate to the algae growth?


PH levels rise and fall with the amount of algae/light in the tank which does impact algae growth rates.

There could be many reasons why your cheato is dying but 4/5 times its because of your light. Adding a brighter light to your refugium can help with growth issues and might be the reason as to why your cheato is dying. Generally why people run their lights 24x7 on a cheato fuge is because their light is not bright enough or they are not running the right type of kelvin bulb to promote grow. I have seen people use 3000K CFL bulbs on there fuge and get a third of the growth that I do. 6500K CFL bulbs work best and you can get 23W CFL (equivalent to 100W CL) at Rona that works like a dream.


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## WiseGuyPhil (Jun 15, 2011)

+1 to that.

Research helps a lot with these types of issues and RC is a great resource for that. However if you really want to get issues resolve, pay the money and get someone experienced in aquarium maintenance who will have the proper tools/knowledge to come and take a look at your tank.



sig said:


> I have no experience at all. I do know my tank, but each tank is different depending on hundreds factors and what works for me probably won't work for you.
> 
> Until you guys will join the Reef central and start reading sticky threads there your tanks will always suffer.
> It is less costly to learn on mistakes of others.


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

wiseguyphil said:


> PH levels rise and fall with the amount of algae/light in the tank which does impact algae growth rates.
> 
> There could be many reasons why your cheato is dying but 4/5 times its because of your light. Adding a brighter light to your refugium can help with growth issues and might be the reason as to why your cheato is dying. Generally why people run their lights 24x7 on a cheato fuge is because their light is not bright enough or they are not running the right type of kelvin bulb to promote grow. I have seen people use 3000K CFL bulbs on there fuge and get a third of the growth that I do. 6500K CFL bulbs work best and you can get 23W CFL (equivalent to 100W CL) at Rona that works like a dream.


would disagree on this one. With No3 and Pho4 at 0, I think chaeto is starving.. It's needs food!!!!
I was in this story when chaeto was not growing and dying and I tried the best lights without success.
I think if there not enough nitrates for chaeto to consume, the lights does not matter (on my system)

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## goldfish (Nov 22, 2011)

wiseguyphil said:


> PH levels rise and fall with the amount of algae/light in the tank which does impact algae growth rates.
> 
> There could be many reasons why your cheato is dying but 4/5 times its because of your light. Adding a brighter light to your refugium can help with growth issues and might be the reason as to why your cheato is dying. Generally why people run their lights 24x7 on a cheato fuge is because their light is not bright enough or they are not running the right type of kelvin bulb to promote grow. I have seen people use 3000K CFL bulbs on there fuge and get a third of the growth that I do. 6500K CFL bulbs work best and you can get 23W CFL (equivalent to 100W CL) at Rona that works like a dream.


Okay thanks guys for your input - last night, I switched the timer for the light refugium to turn on when the DT lights are off and vice versa. Let see if that will make a difference.

The light I'm using is a 24inch fluorescent bulb - can I get those at Rona too with the 6500k rating?


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## goldfish (Nov 22, 2011)

*see attached pictures*

Hi All.

I managed to take some pictures last night of the brown algae.

My snails and kole tang are picking at it but still there.

Can anyone identify what type of algae it is and how to get rid of it? it's only on certain parts in the tank and on live rocks only. Could it be because of dead spots?

Its just a very ugly brown color. 

Thanks


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## JulieFish (Apr 8, 2011)

hmmm... I haven't seen that one before. looks like maybe lobophora?

Sorry I couldn't be more help, good luck.


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## Tim (Dec 11, 2011)

Does it have little air bubbles in it?


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## goldfish (Nov 22, 2011)

No it doesn't.


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