# Apisto breeding tank



## KhuliLoachFan

Can anyone offer me suggestions for decor, arrangement, substrate, etc, for an Apistogramma Cacatuoides breeding tank?

I'm thinking sand, some rocks, plastic plants. The usual cichlid thing.

W


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## AquariAM

They will appreciate live plants. I'd go with something like fine sand, preferably black, some wood, and java fern or something else that can get high coverage without much light or co2


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## KhuliLoachFan

Awesome. I just gotta get some black sand if I can. I just LOVE the look of it.

I've heard that the tahitian moon sand has problems with it though. What do you think of it?

W


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## AquariAM

KhuliLoachFan said:


> Awesome. I just gotta get some black sand if I can. I just LOVE the look of it.
> 
> I've heard that the tahitian moon sand has problems with it though. What do you think of it?
> 
> W


I wouldn't buy it. It's abrasive.
You don't NEED sand. If you were going to do sand in a planted tank though I'd just get fluorish black sand. Kill two birds with one stone.


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## KhuliLoachFan

Fluorish? You mean Flourite® or OnyxSand (black)? (Fracted clay). Good thinking.

W


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## Chris S

Do you want to do a biotope, or just something nice looking?


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## ksimdjembe

these would be the direction I would go.

http://showcase.aquatic-gardeners.org/Img2009/600/576.jpg

http://www.simulationeight.net/fish2010/march13tanks/huallagafull.jpg

http://www.simulationeight.net/fish2010/feb2baenschi/fullfront.jpg


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## Chris S

All good looking, and biotopeish! =D

Not usually lots of live plants in real apisto environments. Leaf litter, sand, spawning caves. Leaves can be used for spawning too


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## KhuliLoachFan

Where can I get the right kind of leaves for an amazonian biotope?

W


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## Chris S

It will be very hard to acquire them. I'd suggest using oak leaves as a substitute.


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## bluegularis

- in the wild these fish live with tree trunks in mostly brown to black water- relatively shallow 10-12 inches.

Each male fish will need about 20 gallons as its territory and the females 10 gallons each. Once the eggs are laid the females become the agressive ones needing about 20 gallons , the best size tank for a pair or trio would be 20 - 30 gallons with lots of hiding spots, inverted coconut shells add a natural look and touch. When you see one fish guarding a shelter and the other fish cowering in the top corners of the tank remove the ones in the top corners or the female guarding young or eggs will kill them.

Hope this helps a little.

Thanks

John


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## AquariAM

If you want to crank out soft water stuff like it's going out of style you should check out an R/O system. When I had an angel pair in re-mineralized water (Kent R/O Right and Kent Discus Trace) I literally got spawns every five days without fail. Some times six. This went on like clockwork for a year that I had them. Given the environment that they come from, Apistos also tend to respond to the strategic addition of cool, softer-than-tank water to simulate rain. This must, of course, be done carefully.


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## KhuliLoachFan

How about peat-in-the-filter, or peat-on-bottom-of-tank? Do? Don't do?

RO is possible for me due to work having an RO unit. 

I shall commence lugging.


W


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## AquariAM

KhuliLoachFan said:


> How about peat-in-the-filter, or peat-on-bottom-of-tank? Do? Don't do?
> 
> RO is possible for me due to work having an RO unit.
> 
> I shall commence lugging.
> 
> W


It'd be easier to just do it at home unless you're only dealing with a single <20G tank. You can get a decent R/O unit for pretty cheap. You'll need the R/O right powder and trace elements anyways.


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## Tropicana

Just a question dont apistos form pairs and Co-op the fry?.


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## Chris S

Some form pairs, some form harems.

Some that are supposed to form harems, form pairs. Some that are supposed to form pairs, form harems. Some just won't pair up with anything!

Crazy little buggers.


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## Hack02

I've had success with Apistos in both tanks with eco-complete and tanks with silica sand. Regardless of the substrate I find that driftwood, live plants and Indian Almond leaves or oak leaves are helpful(this should lower the PH a little without using RO water).

I'm trying peat in a tank right now to see how it works out. 

Generally I just take the leaves, plants, wood in 50/50 comibination of tap (7.2) and ro (6.5,) and find I end up at 6.8 to start and it will drift down to 6.5 over time, which works for most of the Apistos we find around here.

If I want to lower the PH I change the ratio of RO to tap during my water changes, or when setting up a new tank.


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## Chris S

Curious, where did you source the almond leaves?


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## Hack02

Chris S said:


> Curious, where did you source the almond leaves?


Ordered them off of Aqaubid. Took a couple of weeks to get here, but much cheaper than buying them locally.


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## SparrowHawk

KhuliLoachFan said:


> Can anyone offer me suggestions for decor, arrangement, substrate, etc, for an Apistogramma Cacatuoides breeding tank?
> 
> I'm thinking sand, some rocks, plastic plants. The usual cichlid thing.
> 
> W


We used to breed them in bare bottom tanks, with pvc pipes and plastic plants. They were kept in RO water and fed a variety of frozen foods and daphnia. They bred pretty regularly for us.


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## Chris S

Hack02 said:


> Ordered them off of Aqaubid. Took a couple of weeks to get here, but much cheaper than buying them locally.


I have no idea where to get them locally either, do you know of anywhere?


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## igor.kanshyn

Chris S said:


> I have no idea where to get them locally either, do you know of anywhere?


eBay can be a good source of this leaves.

BTW, people who breed shrimps wrote that dry local oak and maple leaves worked similar as almond leaves.


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## Chris S

Oak works, but not quite as well in my experience


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## Hack02

SparrowHawk said:


> We used to breed them in bare bottom tanks, with pvc pipes and plastic plants. They were kept in RO water and fed a variety of frozen foods and daphnia. They bred pretty regularly for us.


For breeding purposes I have no doubt that this set-up would work real well, but as my wife want things to look nice I use the sand/driftwood/plant/leaves set-up.


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## Hack02

Chris S said:


> I have no idea where to get them locally either, do you know of anywhere?


Below water has them (Oliver in Montreal) and

http://www.bettabreederscanada.com/betta-supplies.

I used this guy from aqua bid http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?disp&viewseller&Bettawan

Let me know if your interested as I have to order some soon (I'm down to 10) so I would have no plbms placing an order for us via Aquabid.


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## Chris S

How many do you usually order at a time?


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## TBemba

Hack02 said:


> Below water has them (Oliver in Montreal) and
> 
> http://www.bettabreederscanada.com/betta-supplies.
> 
> I used this guy from aqua bid http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?disp&viewseller&Bettawan
> 
> Let me know if your interested as I have to order some soon (I'm down to 10) so I would have no plbms placing an order for us via Aquabid.


Curious what is the difference between Grade A and Grade C?


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## matti2uude

I've been feeding mine live blackworms and they've been spawning for me.


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## Hack02

I ordered 50 last time, just store them in a ziplock bag and they smell like the day they arrived

Grade A are usually whole larges sized leafs, Grade c would be smaller leafs and/or large leaves with rips/holes. 

I can do a buy for multiple folks if interested..


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## TBemba

Hack02 said:


> I ordered 50 last time, just store them in a ziplock bag and they smell like the day they arrived
> 
> Grade A are usually whole larges sized leafs, Grade c would be smaller leafs and/or large leaves with rips/holes.
> 
> I can do a buy for multiple folks if interested..


I would be interested in some. 
I figure grade C would work as good as grade A

Maybe a new thread needs to be started?


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## KhuliLoachFan

I would split an order. $35 on aquabid gets enough to split at least two ways. 

W


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## matti2uude

I need to get more almond leaves too if you want to put an order together.


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## Hack02

Ok, I can set this up. the guy I order from has lots of 200/400/500/1000. I think there' myself, Matti2uude, Khuli, Chris S, Tbemba. If we each took 100, that's 500 total, works out to be 16 cents a leaf (grade a). Not sure how many everyone wants, so let me know. 

I'm in Burlington but have no pblms meeting around the airport or maybe even further, like Franks.

I'll take up to 100


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## matti2uude

I'll take 100 if it's only $16.00.


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## TBemba

matti2uude said:


> I'll take 100 if it's only $16.00.


I'll take 100 also if it's only $16.00. For me it would be best to meet you in Burlington I am closer to Hamilton.


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## KhuliLoachFan

Sounds good to me! Whatever everybody else goes for, put me in for one at that price too!
Franks aquarium is a good meetup spot,. but I also periodically drive through to London so I could meet at 401 @ something.

W


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## Hack02

I'm just waiting to hear from Chris S.


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## matti2uude

Sorry for hijacking the thread here but I figured you guys would be the most interested group. I have some A. Hongsloi formII fry if anyone is interested in them.


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## TBemba

matti2uude said:


> Sorry for hijacking the thread here but I figured you guys would be the most interested group. I have some A. Hongsloi formII fry if anyone is interested in them.


How much and you have pics? you going to the Convention Auction?


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## matti2uude

TBemba said:


> How much and you have pics? you going to the Convention Auction?


Sorry I don't have any pics of them now. I can google and show you a similar one. Yes I'm going to the auction and I'll be bring one pair. Pm me with an offer if you want.


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## Hack02

matti2uude said:


> Sorry I don't have any pics of them now. I can google and show you a similar one. Yes I'm going to the auction and I'll be bring one pair. Pm me with an offer if you want.


I'll be at the auction as well, but don't think I have the tank space, I just picked up 6 A. Purple (sp) and 8 Pelvicachromis taeniatus Moliwe, from Oliver L on Friday. Keep me in mind for the future.


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## matti2uude

I have 2 more batches of smaller ones I'll be selling when they're sexable.


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## Hack02

I assume those were your two pairs that just sold at the auction, nice prices for them, congrats.


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## matti2uude

I took 1 pair to the auction and someone else had a couple pairs there too.


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## TBemba

matti2uude said:


> I took 1 pair to the auction and someone else had a couple pairs there too.


Matt,

you have great looking fish.

I seen them in person at the auction.

Tim


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## matti2uude

TBemba said:


> Matt,
> 
> you have great looking fish.
> 
> I seen them in person at the auction.
> 
> Tim


Thank you very much!


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## AquariAM

Warren have you seen the Apisto hongsloi @ Menagerie? They're the best ones I've seen in 10 years. You should check them out they're total show quality IMO.


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## Hack02

I saw George at the auction as well. Didn't think this was the greatest auction for fish, but was really good for dry stuff (filters/food/chemicals) and plants.

some purchases:
3 L071 pleoc's for $16
5 assassin snails for $6
all kinds of plants from 1$ to $6
2 boxes of the plant ferts for $6


The bidding on the Apistos was fierce as was bidding for paired longfin albino BN's. I think a couple of these went for over $50.

Very happy with my day's work.

What did you guys think of the auction.

(yes hijacked the thread again)


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## Chris S

Sorry, was away for the long weekend.

Depending on the price and where I would have to travel to get them, I may be interested =D 

I still have a garbage bag of oak leaves I am working on


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## Hack02

Guys just wanted to confirm who in for the IALs before I order them. I'm in Burlington so pick-up can be almost anytime at my place. I work by the airport and can meet around there most business days as well.

I don't head out east to often, so can't promise when I'd be out your way I may head out to Franks to check it out but not sure when that would be). 

I have no pblms giving it to one of you if the 3 of you can make arrangements beyond that. 

Let me know,

Tony


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## matti2uude

I am in for sure. I can meet you by the airport.


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## KhuliLoachFan

I'm in. I'll grab mine from someone who is closer to Scarboro, if possible. Matt, ok?

Warren


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## matti2uude

KhuliLoachFan said:


> I'm in. I'll grab mine from someone who is closer to Scarboro, if possible. Matt, ok?
> 
> Warren


Yea no problem.


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## cichlidsam

Since this has become something like a general Apisto-thread...I don't feel so bad in asking something that is at least tangentially related to the OP...Where does everyone get their coconut shells from?


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## TBemba

I'm still in PM sent


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## Chris S

I'm going to have to opt out for now and order some sometime in the future.


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## Hack02

Ok, I ordered 400 leaves @ 65 total, so 16.25 each for 100.


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## Hack02

Update guys, the leaves shipped on Tuesday, I'll let you know when I get them


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## KhuliLoachFan

Excellent.  Thanks for the update.

W


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## Hack02

Hey Guys the leaves are here and are nicely package in 4 groups, by the seller. Beautiful whole leaves not pieces and not leaves with holes in them.

Tim I know your close so just send a PM and come on by.

Matt/Warren, Matt I believe you're the pick-up guy for both. I'll be up by the airport tomorrow and Thursday this week. Next week is up in the air because of the G20. Let me know how you want to work it.

May 28, 2010 DS PAYPAL MSP/DIV $70.51 

This was the cost in CAD, so that's $17.62 cad each.


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## matti2uude

That's great! I am available tomorrow and Thursday. I can pick up for Warren too. Pm me and let me know when and where is good for you. 
Thanks Matt


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## KhuliLoachFan

Yay! I'm so ready for these!

W


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## Hack02

Tbemba's already come and got his, nice guy.


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## TBemba

Hack02 said:


> Tbemba's already come and got his, nice guy.


Thanks Hack02, I would say the same about you. You also have some pretty nice tanks and fish. The leaves are A1, Glad I got in on this deal.

Thanks again!


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## bae

cichlidsam said:


> Since this has become something like a general Apisto-thread...I don't feel so bad in asking something that is at least tangentially related to the OP...Where does everyone get their coconut shells from?


Supermarket. Greengrocer...

Punch in two of the three dark spots on the end with a hammer and nail, drain the liquid and drink it. Cut in half with a hacksaw. Pry out and eat the meat. Cut or chip out entrance holes as desired. Voila. Two caves per coconut.

Warning: coconut meat is very high in saturated fat, so foist some on your friends or family. ;-)


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## KhuliLoachFan

My wife made a coconut pie with the shredded coconut. For $2, I got coconut shells for my apisto tank, and PIE. 

Life is good.

W


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## carbonlist

DOUBLE WIN for 2$.


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## TBemba

KhuliLoachFan said:


> My wife made a coconut pie with the shredded coconut. For $2, I got coconut shells for my apisto tank, and PIE.
> 
> Life is good.
> 
> W


I'm not sure the pie would be that healthy for your apistos 

What type of apistos are you keeping?


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## KhuliLoachFan

Apistogramma Cacatuoides. Or they were, until they died on me. Sigh. 

W


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## PACMAN

KhuliLoachFan said:


> Apistogramma Cacatuoides. Or they were, until they died on me. Sigh.
> 
> W


Must have been a Heart Attack from the pie!


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## KhuliLoachFan

Next time I won't give it a second slice of coconut cream pie, even though it asks me very sweetly.

W


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## TBemba

I picked up a pair of Apistogramma borellii male looks a lot like this fellow









I will have to see how it goes I think it maybe a while before they breed but I hope that I can keep them healthy. The female is tiny and currently the male has no interest in her.


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## cichlidsam

Hi all, thanks for the suggestion about the coconuts...Looking forward to some coconut drinks!

Also, I'm excited to report that my A. viejita II pair has just had their first batch of fry! I'm really impressed with this pair as they got it right on their first spawn. This strain also has a ton of red. Will try to post some pics soon.


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## AquariAM

cichlidsam said:


> Hi all, thanks for the suggestion about the coconuts...Looking forward to some coconut drinks!
> 
> Also, I'm excited to report that my A. viejita II pair has just had their first batch of fry! I'm really impressed with this pair as they got it right on their first spawn. This strain also has a ton of red. Will try to post some pics soon.


Best of luck with the spawn. That is one of the most beautiful of all dwarf cichlids.


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