# Fish room wish list, dreaming of an ideal set up.



## Crayon

We are planning a move this coming year, and our new place needs massive renovations, which includes............a fish room!!!!!
This will be a dedicated basement space below the display tanks (yes there will be more than 1 display tank).
I have a pretty good idea of what I want in the fish room, but thought I would put the question out there about what anyone else can suggest, or has seen that is a good idea to possibly include.
To date, here is what I would like to include:
A large sink and floor drain, plus outside wall connections for more drainage.
RO station, including 125 g storage for both salt water and fresh water (each)
3 separate sump systems (1 tropical, 1 temperate and 1 sea horses)
Dehumidifier plumbed in or HRV or both, tbd
Work station, with power above the counter with lots of separate circuits on gfci breakers
A fridge/freezer so I don't store anymore food in our kitchen
3 qt tanks (minimum probably) all with self contained skimming and UV filters cause I will have to be able to have cold water quarantine, as well as coral quarantine or tropical fish quarantine.
A non slip floor of some sort, tbd
Tiled walls? Or some way of not destroying drywall if there is a salt spray
All 3 systems will have constant water changes for sure, cause we do that now and it's awesome.
A dosing system for alk and cal.
A really good medication kit for sick fish stocked up, required contents tbd
Am considering a washing machine for filter socks in the fish room (so I don't use our washer)

Anything missing?
For sure this is my Christmas wish list. Will see how far the budget stretches........


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## wtac

This will be fun!

Filter socks...im not a fan but if you will still be using the RE Dreambox you can do a "pre settling" water section that you can pack one section with filter floss.

You might want to so a spreadsheet of cost comparison of how many 100' roll of floss over time vs a dedicated washing machine.

Tiling is nice but you can get white PVC sheets that you adhere to the drywall...it'll really have that clinical look at a fraction of the cost and installation time . To really hardcore it, use waterproof switches and outlets and you can literally wash down the walls with a soapy mop and hose down.

Yeah...


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## Crayon

wtac said:


> This will be fun!
> 
> Filter socks...im not a fan but if you will still be using the RE Dreambox you can do a "pre settling" water section that you can pack one section with filter floss.
> 
> You might want to so a spreadsheet of cost comparison of how many 100' roll of floss over time vs a dedicated washing machine.
> 
> Tiling is nice but you can get white PVC sheets that you adhere to the drywall...it'll really have that clinical look at a fraction of the cost and installation time . To really hardcore it, use waterproof switches and outlets and you can literally wash down the walls with a soapy mop and hose down.
> 
> Yeah...


I've used the white PVC sheets. They are an option, but not the cleanest look when they have to get sectioned around odd jogs. So yes, the PVC sheets will go on the consideration list.
Like the waterproof switches and outlets. Could even eliminate switches by doing motion/occupancy sensors.
Hmm to the pre settling water section. We will be using the RE dreamboxes for sure (as we own 1 right now). Not sure how a pre settling would connect to the dream box. I like the socks myself, although the 800 micron is too fine and clog too quickly. Definitely don't like the fibre socks, prefer the mesh socks.
The washing machine would also double down as washing for all the fish rags (which seem to multiply on our floor like rabbits). So a cheap top loader from Kijiji doesn't take long to pay off vs filter wool. But then again, there is no harm in considering both.

Algae scrubber? Any other way of using the water from the tank and pulling some of the nutrients out of it before it goes through the skimmer?


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## wtac

I personally like using algae, whether it be ATS, macroalgae raceways, etc. All depends on space, layout, aesthetics, etc, etc.

John has got some seriously nice tools and skill...can easily DIY fluidized filters etc.

To keep it all going in the worst of conditions, natural gas back-up generator


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## Crayon

wtac said:


> I personally like using algae, whether it be ATS, macroalgae raceways, etc. All depends on space, layout, aesthetics, etc, etc.
> 
> John has got some seriously nice tools and skill...can easily DIY fluidized filters etc.
> 
> To keep it all going in the worst of conditions, natural gas back-up generator


More info required on the algae scrubbers! Oh show me, master.

And yes, John has some serious skills which will be put to use.

Generator goes without question. I did forget to put that on the list. Our current place has a 22KVA generator which has saved our systems in the past.


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## tom g

*Seatbelt*

Ok cheryl just sat down .seat belt on .this is got to follow 
The master and the master ... this is gonna be fun
Enjoy the build ideas ...
Look forward to seeing this finalized ...


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## cica

Crayon said:


> More info required on the algae scrubbers! ............


Just in case if you want some reading about algae scrubbers:
http://mullinsfarms.com/misc/algae-turf-scrubbers/

I used this info to build mine too. Do not use the dremmel to cut the slot in the pipe. Use a milling machine and make it nice and even slot. This way you'll have a nice water flow on the canvas.


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## wtac

tom g said:


> Ok cheryl just sat down .seat belt on .this is got to follow
> The master and the master ... this is gonna be fun
> Enjoy the build ideas ...
> Look forward to seeing this finalized ...


Master, no. Enabled and enabling, absolutely 

In the new year I propose everyone should meet over good food and drinks to revel in this great opportunity to share ideas and learn from one another.

No shaving for a week prior as I'll bring some of the other gear


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## tom g

*Hey*

I up for some willie enabling .......

Good food .drinks .. and good laughs as well


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## twobytwo

Crayon said:


> A fridge/freezer so I don't store anymore food in our kitchen


Yeah right... this is for drinks!

Congrats on the new place!


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## Crayon

Master no, just way to enabling on my own..........but love the help everyone!
I'm up for drinks, even if it does involve shaving. Went to Men's Essentials a few weeks back for John's birthday and picked up a few things. Blindly being lead down a rabbit hole by all of you..........
So back on topic here.
We have a crazy year ahead of us. Our new place is in the planning process right now. I have a structural engineer on board to help me with some issues (such as there is no basement currently).
The plan is 4 tanks in total, with the largest being a double sided tank staying under 200 gallons. This is John's tank, for now, not sure if it will have dwarf angels, or tangs, but it will be a reef tank, I think. That may change.
Then my nano tank with nps, the coldwater tank and the sea horse tank.
I think.
In the next few months we will have to decide what to do with our current systems. I really want to keep most everything, but we will not be ready with the new place before we need to move.
Probably.
Way too complicated.
Am going to read about algae scrubbers,
What about a phyto reactor?


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## Taipan

*Subscribed.....*

I'm not missing this thread. Subscribed. I'll lurk in the corner until I find something intelligible to add to this conversation/body of knowledge.


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## wtac

MenEssentials is a dangerous place if ones nose likes everything...ask Roger and Tom 

A constant feed phyto is simple enough. Have a dosing pump feed the Rx NSW through a UVS. Determine how much you want to feed on a daily basis and the Rx can be easily sized.

I have a 100gal poly tank that you can use when the time comes...wife isn't digging looking at it in the yard.


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## Crayon

Ok, need more info on building a phyto reactor. The link for an algae scrubber was excellent. Really simple. Although I don't like the idea of having to clean something every week. Price to pay I guess.
My original plan was bottled phyto in a fridge, with dosing lines to feed to each system. I can also feed Reef Nutrition Oyster Feast or ROE for the nps system. I guess it would be easy enough to feed from a phyto reactor instead.
So if anyone has a link on how to build a phyto reactor, slide it in here now.......


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## cica

Crayon said:


> Ok, need more info on building a phyto reactor........
> So if anyone has a link on how to build a phyto reactor, slide it in here now.......


I got my info how to culture phyto here:
www.melevsreef.com/phytoplankton.html
Hope it helps somewhat.



Crayon said:


> .....The link for an algae scrubber was excellent. Really simple. Although I don't like the idea of having to clean something every week. Price to pay I guess......


Agreed, not the best thing to do every Sunday but it really doesn't take long. Changing 3 buckets of water and cleaning the scrabber is about an hour for me. Less for you since you already set up the auto water change.


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## Crayon

Thanks Cica,
The phyto link will be my Christmas Eve reading.....


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## cica

Crayon said:


> Thanks Cica,
> The phyto link will be my Christmas Eve reading.....


You're always welcome Cheryl.
I just use the miracle grow 5 ml and kent essential elements 1 ml in the 2 liter soda bottle, filed with 25 ppt salt water. I seeded one with "wiseguy`s" phyto a few years ago. The other one with a bottle of store bought (Seachem) one.
I don't auto feed, just feed some every day.


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## altcharacter

I'll tile the fishroom for beer and sausage!!!
Meaning, I'll bring beer and sausage. So basically since you are a vegetarian John and I will eat the sausage and get drunk...Then tile the hell out of the place!!!

Sound good?


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## Crayon

altcharacter said:


> I'll tile the fishroom for beer and sausage!!!
> Meaning, I'll bring beer and sausage. So basically since you are a vegetarian John and I will eat the sausage and get drunk...Then tile the hell out of the place!!!
> 
> Sound good?


And how can I say no? Just as long as tiling gets done, we can supply all the beer!!


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## notclear

Is your new home going to be closer to GTA?


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## altcharacter

I'm 99% sure it's actually going to be further away. 
I think she had said she was going to open Ontario's first male brothel and she is going to be the head lady of the house..

Or something like that.


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## Crayon

altcharacter said:


> I'm 99% sure it's actually going to be further away.
> I think she had said she was going to open Ontario's first male brothel and she is going to be the head lady of the house..
> 
> Or something like that.


You will get me in trouble starting rumours like that!!

Our new place is in Coldwater. About the same distance from the gta as our house in Hawkestone is. It is not currently a house so we have lots of work with zoning, renovations, etc etc to do a conversion. No big deal, just time and planning.

I will still be doing the weekly commute to Toronto for a couple years so I will be around!


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## altcharacter

And fortunately for you, my tank should be ready by spring for "hotel visits!"

I've already thought it out and I'll be putting a 10g in the system as a "holding tank" and it'll have your name on it.


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## deeznutz

A dedicated fish room is by far the best investment in this hobby. Yes a dream but honestly its a necessity. Makes husbandry much easier and keeps the wife happy.

What size of a room are you considering? I think i went 14 x 8. Wider is better. 14 x10 or 14x12 wold have been better. But heck a fish room alone is good enough. No more crawling under the tank for maintenance. No more carrying buckets to the toilet. lol. No more visible mess

I would recommend counter height sinks. Laundry sinks are a tad too low and can hurt your back if you're using them for a bit.

-Dedicated 20amp circuits.
-keep the sump off the ground to keep head pressure down. I raised mine about 24"

I used bathroom drywall and high end paint. 3 years and no problems at all.

I'll add more if I can think of any. But you've covered most of it. I think its the layout thats the most important.


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## Crayon

I think we are planning around a 14 x 14 room, but it depends on a few things structurally. There is currently no basement on the building and we will be digging under in order to add a mechanical room and fish room in the new basment.
We have to confirm what the foundation is first, in order to design the benching and underpinning and so we won't know until February. At that point we will be able to figure out how big a basement we can get and how much it will cost us.
For sure the sink will be counter level. I'm thinking a restaurant stainless steel sink with integrated stainless counters that we can buy second hand, as the spray wand would be handy for cleaning buckets. But we will see what's available.
Good to hear about the drywall. One of my main concerns is how much humility this area will generate and how to deal with it.


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## Dis

How many gallons are you are thinking? 

Bathrooms fans hooked up to a humidity controller could work, or run a dehumidifier.

My next fishroom/house I would love to have a walk out to ground level. Carrying large tanks downstairs is such a pain. Goodluck with your build


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## Crayon

Main tropical system will be a 200 gallon display tank with a secondary 30 gallon display tank and a 100 sump. (All approximately)
Temperate (cold water) tank will be 150 gallons I hope, with a 100 sump because the cold water system is less efficient getting rid of nutrients so I want to keep a larger water volume than just running a small sump.
Sea horse system will be a 30 gallon tank with a secondary display tank plus a 30 gallon sump. We have this sump already.
So I need 2 more sumps and 2 or 3 display tanks, which I'm not going to plan until we've designed the area of the house where the tanks are going.


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## Dis

Sounds really nice, always fun planning more tanks.


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## Crayon

Ok, we had a change of direction and have also started to order some equipment.
The new tropical display is going to settle in somewhere around 350 gallons. We are still hoping to do a drop down tank, but at that size, it's a question of logistics, depth, do we want to build it on site or not??? So not final yet.
Cold water tank is still around 125 gallons or so, pending decisions on height.
Got temporary racking set up in new temporary space, for temporary tanks. (Lots of not permanent moves going on right now)
Have ordered a new 125 litre sump, should be here next week, for holding system, which will become the permanent acclimation system sump.
Set up the amazing 200.00 Costco steel racking for our holding system, and holding tanks will be arriving next week.
Next weekend we start the new build, for the temporary tanks.
The ideal fish room design hasn't changed much. Although we are now planning a heating loop for our fish tanks off the in floor hydronic floor heating system. I have an hydronic engineer helping me design this, as it does involve a titanium heat exchanger, a couple closed loops off the return pumps, and some type of temperature regulation.
The cool part is......no heaters!!!!! If we're really good we might even be able to add a chilling loop for the summer.
Beyond that we are still in drawing stage. The new basement/fish room/mechanical room has been a challenge because of some structural issues, but I think we have it sorted out. Should be getting structural drawings next week, which will allow us to get pricing done.
Hopefully it all works out.
Fingers crossed.


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## Taipan




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## Crayon

*Size matters!!!*

Well, we've started work on the temporary set up which includes some of the permanent equipment for the final ultimate fish room. Unboxed the UV filter.....
It was slightly bigger than I expected, so have to rethink where it's going to go.


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## Crayon

All of this set up is temporary for about the next 6 months. We need to move all livestock and corals between the middle of April and 1st of May, so we are cutting it tight to get this system cycled.
Sold some corals on the weekend.
Best part was......Dale got free gift with purchase!!! The mantis that has been growing in my tank for 4 years, killing all my inverts and perching fish happened to be in the rock we pulled out.
Thankfully, he exited the rock to the bottom of the bucket, so he is now living happily in the sump at Dales place.
I think my tank might be officially mantis free!!!!
Today is plumbing day.
Set up new RO, set up new water storage.
Set up 3 or 4 holding tanks all plumbed to sump.


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## Rookie2013

looking good...good luck...


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## wtac

The madness begins...even though a temporary set-up


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## altcharacter

I like that 50g Drilled tank!!!! I think I've seen it somewhere before 

If you need anything Cheryl just give me a shout.


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## Crayon

altcharacter said:


> I like that 50g Drilled tank!!!! I think I've seen it somewhere before
> 
> If you need anything Cheryl just give me a shout.


Uh, the 50 gallon to which you refer is still sitting in the front entrance needing to be cleaned.
Since we don't have a sink, it has to wait.


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## altcharacter

I totally said "do you want me to clean it!!" 
so.....


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## koopie

*re mantis shrimp*

Does anybody want a free mantis shrimp, and thanks again Cheryl. plus I also will give you a hand if you need any help moving stuff.


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## Crayon

koopie said:


> Does anybody want a free mantis shrimp, and thanks again Cheryl. plus I also will give you a hand if you need any help moving stuff.


Post a thread, Dale about the mantis, cause I remember someone looking for crazy things like that.

Plus, yes, I would love some help. Payment in efflo frags.......as long as I don't kill it in the move.


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## Crayon

Today, we got the 3 temporary tanks in the temporary basement going with water. All plumbing good. No leaks, just some fine tuning, lights, gyres and we're good to go! Decided to hold off in the fancy rock work, cause we don't have enough rock and need to get the cycle started.


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## altcharacter

Cheryl I have around 40 pounds of rock if you want it. And yes I can deliver this week


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## Crayon

We will talk........
No space herpes, right?


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## teemee

wow - i've missed this thread. 
Cheryl, you don't need to build a phytoplankton reactor, you can buy one:
http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/aqua-medic-plankton-reactor.html

In the fish room, also, consider culturing at least rotifers, but you could also do pods - the nps and seahorses would be happy, at least.

can't wait for this - 
I'm so excited... (and I just can't hide it...!)


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## Crayon

*One year later...*

Well, our hope we would be done our renovation by the end of last year didn't really happen. Too many things became road blocks.
No worries. We had a back up plan and although our heating bill for the winter will be nuts, everything is fine.
New plan, get moved in by the end of this year.

Here is our temporary set up, one year later.


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## Crayon

*Update on the fish room design*

Here is the latest plan. The room is 18' long x 11' wide.
The fish tank is a through wall tank on the left by the chairs that swivel. It is 540 gallons. Yes, it has a jog in it. There is a reason. At the narrow end of the tank there is a structural post that can't move. So the tank can only be 24" deep but I figured there was no reason it had to stay 24" deep along the entire 11'-6" length. Is there?

There is a sump partially below the tank, three sets of heavy duty shelves for storage and quarantine and a counter in the middle with a sink. 
Water storage bins on the right.
Lots of wall space for dosers, pumps, transformers, wiring, pipes, blah blah blah blah blah.
The tank will sit on Bosch racking.
It will probably have to be built on site.


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## Crayon

*Proposed new tank design*

Full disclosure: I am an interior designer. Before anyone starts thinking paint colours and pillows, just let me say "don't go there".

The reason I'm adding this information is because the rendering of our planned fish tank is a little different, but I'm confident we can build it. We have the skills.

I hope!

Yeah, I know the fish look like discus with macro algae. Try finding a fish texture to drop into a rendering. Making one takes too many non billable hours. So discus it is for the photo! You know these will be much nicer, more colourful and way more cool to own saltwater fish......&#128033;&#128523;

As mentioned the tank is 11'-6" long and 28" high. It cantilevers out past the wall by 6" ideally but if there is an issue that might get reduced a bit. The tank will be see through, and will have an open corner, too.

The Bosch racking will be concealed in the band under the tank and extend back into the fish room. The white band on top will flip back and have a strip of GHL LED lights mostly blue. Mitras 7 lights on the fish room side.

The big question is flow. I haven't done a tank layout yet for pumps, returns, closed loops, flow pumps, etc etc etc. Given that there is so much open glass, finding places to hide pumps is going to be tricky.

I can bring return and supply lines up on either end of the tank, just need to figure out how to get flow in the middle.
I don't want to use jets at the water line, am thinking closed loop with external pump and maybe conceal them in the back at the bottom?


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## wtac

Closed loop...1.5" feed and 1" return...2 or 3 DC pumps connected to GHL controller to vary the flow rate...that's what I would do.

A 6" cantilever will be fine on a 24" width...just bolt the stand to the floor for peace of mind.


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## Crayon

wtac said:


> Closed loop...1.5" feed and 1" return...2 or 3 DC pumps connected to GHL controller to vary the flow rate...that's what I would do.
> 
> A 6" cantilever will be fine on a 24" width...just bolt the stand to the floor for peace of mind.


The Bosch engineers have said they can assist in designing the structure as well, to ensure we get the right structure for the racking.

I will have a glass company involved who understand aquariums, too. Not sure who yet.

Hey Wilson,
Do you think it's possible to feed the closed loops through the bottom of the tank or would you go from the top.
Obviously valves on everything, but as I would like this to be viewable from both sides, would rather not have pipes coming from above.
I'm going to be working with Ghost overflows discreetly placed (locations tbd)
Probably going to be a Bill Wann sump. That will give us room for lots of pumps.
Heating will be a titanium heat exchanger to our domestic system.
Will require a chiller probably, too.


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## Mikeylikes

Hi Cheryl,

Feed the closed loop from the bottom of the tank up the middle and conceal with rocks. That way you will have flow from middle of tank without any pipes or flow coming from above or sides. I've seen it done and working well. Just needs some planning. 

Only you need to make sure you are okay with that as once its drilled there is no going back.


So jelly of your up coming project girl! Wish I had the room to do something similar.


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## Mikeylikes

ps. I suggest you paint the room aqua blue and have some leopard patterned pillows laying around  ! Sorry I just had to poke at it Cheryl ... LOL


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## wtac

I'll get in touch with you Cheryl during the week...got lots of craziness cooking in the bell tower


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## tom g

*wowser*

this is gonna be epic ... strapping in mr Wilson throwing in a few shots it has to be epic , Cheryl can hold her own in design but I do agree with mikey ... 
I cant wait to see this tank take formation .
I know u have your work cut out for u , but go girl ... and yes john 
u guys will get this going and I can totally see it working 
cant wait to see the next step 
the bosh stand will look amazing and will last a lifetime ..
cheers and I hope u are staying warm tonite


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## Crayon

Mikeylikes said:


> ps. I suggest you paint the room aqua blue and have some leopard patterned pillows laying around  ! Sorry I just had to poke at it Cheryl ... LOL


&#128059;&#128059;&#128059;&#128059;
Just had to poke the bear, didn't you......
I don't mind. Happens a lot.

But I think if I had to pick pillows, they would be blue sequins and the wallpaper would have mermaids........


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## Crayon

wtac said:


> I'll get in touch with you Cheryl during the week...got lots of craziness cooking in the bell tower


Oh, that would be good.
This is the easier of the tanks we are planning. This one is bigger, the other one is more complicated.


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## wtac

tom g said:


> this is gonna be epic ... strapping in mr Wilson


Please don't refer to me as MrWilson


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## tom g

wtac said:


> Please don't refer to me as MrWilson


ok willie....


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## wtac

Better...ROLMFAO


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## Crayon

wtac said:


> Better...ROLMFAO


Rolling on laughing my floor ass off?
Ok Willie.......


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## tom g

*wtac*

wtac to me was always snuffalopogus , as anytime I entered a room he had just left ..at first before we became good friends I fig he never existed 
but he does .. and ps hes the only guy I know who wears shorts in the winter ...

weirdooooooo willie


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## Taipan

tom g said:


> .....p.s. he's the only guy I know who wears shorts in the winter......


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## wtac

Crayon said:


> Rolling on laughing my floor ass off?
> Ok Willie.......


I've been doing a lot of self medicating lately


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