# Nannostomus beckfordi aggression



## SirAldousSnow (Jul 26, 2012)

Hey people,

I'm newish to the site and also to pencilfish. I was wondering if anyone else has observed aggression in Beckford's pencilfish males? I've had a dozen of them in a heavily planted 30g for about a month now with a pair of Apistogramma Agassizii and 6 Emerald Eyespot Rasboras (Brevibora dorsiocellata). At first they were all pretty pale until they settled in at which point I found out I have two males and 10 females (10 have rounded pelvic and dorsal fins and are more pale) and 2 males (2 are a touch bigger, have pointier pelvic and dorsal fins and are darker with a lot more red on 'em). 

My issue right now is that the two males have been really aggressive. They spar with one another every now then, but they also spend pretty much their entire day chasing not only the females but also the apistos (even the male, who's way bigger) and the rasboras. At first I thought maybe one was just a jerk but then the other male started to behave the exact same way. I'm wondering if anyone else has seen this in N. beckfordi. I thought maybe they were being territorial due to the tank parameters mimicking spawning conditions. The parameters are as follows in this heavily planted 30g:

pH 6.4
ammonia between 0.25 and 0.5 ppm
nitrite 0 ppm
nitrate 0 ppm
DKH - 2
DGH - 110
Temperature 24C

As you can see I've been trying to get the water soft and acidic as I've read that's what the Apistogramma like. I've also attached a photo of the tank. Any advice from anyone?


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

I have these guys too. When I first got them, the pair of males did their dominance dance, which was quite interesting, for at least ten minutes without a break. But they never damaged one another, never actually touched one another, for that matter. They just glowed very brightly and wiggled beside each other, sort of darting moves. Typically they are not aggressive, I've sure not seen it in mine.

If you don't have a ton of plants, get more. Breaking up sight lines will reduce their ability to see one another, which reduces the dominance issues and chasing as well. From your pic, it looks like you have a lot of plants at low/mid level, but not much of anything tall. You need some tall growers to break up sight lines right to the top. Roots on the floaters are not enough to do the trick. Chunks of wood also help with sight line breakup.

I keep them in regular Mississauga tap water too.. they seem quite content in it.


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## SirAldousSnow (Jul 26, 2012)

I actually just added in a number of the plants you see with just that in mind. You can see the Nesaea is not quite maxed out, nor is the Hygrophila or the Bacopa. In fact I hadn't meant for the frogbit to grow it's roots so long, but apparently my tank is a touch nutrient deficient. Time to be a little more strict with my Flourish regimen... Do you know of any other tall growers I might try out? 

Can't keep much in Guelph tap - it's crazy hard (I hit 35 drops of API GH drops before quitting).


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

sorry, somehow I posted twice.. so I deleted the text on this one.


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

Ouch. That is hard water for sure. If possible, you might want to try cutting it with RO water, to reduce the hardness to more manageable levels.

I think you'd be ok with such things as Hornwort, which is a surface/subsurface floater that's quite heavy and fills vacant column with growth. Perhaps some of the thicker swords,they're pretty tough and grow tall quickly enough. Vals maybe ? Elodea should work well, it's very vigorous.

Indian Water Fern.. aka Ceratopteris thalictroides, is another floater that might be useful. Once it gets larger, it will grow quite a dense raft of roots, which break up sight lines nicely. If you find it growing in a pot or bunch, just let new leaves float and they will change into the floating form, which is nothing like the submersed form. Wide, slightly ruffled leaves, from a central crown, grow babies in most of the notches and margins, so you get a steady supply of young ones to grow on. They can become very, very large over time. I had one that covered the entire surface of my 30G, roots down eight inches, with 3 crowns. Sold that one. Now all I have are tiny babies but they'll eventually grow.

You can also grow it planted, in which case the leaves are very finely divided, very ferny looking and it can grow tall. Often you lose the older growth and have to replant the new leaves to keep it going. I have better luck with it as a floater. Another one that's great for fry, shrimp and small fish that are shy and like to hide. So far as I know, pretty adaptable to most water.

Guppy grass [ Naja guadalupensis ] is also very useful, though I don't know how it does in such hard water. Does fine in mine. A very pretty subsurface floater, it will root into anything, but does not make a root mass. Just one or two long slender filaments. Will root into sponge, substrate, rock or wood, but is very easy to pull out. Can fill the entire volume of a tank if allowed to grow unchecked long enough. It's really excellent for a fry tank, provides good cover and interferes with larger fish's freedom to move as they try to swim through it, so it reduces parental predation by quite a bit. It's very rare to see it in stores, as it is very hard for commercial growers to ship it and have it arrive in saleable condition. But it's very versatile, as you can plant the stem horizontally and let it grow branches upward, like something with a rhizome, or plant single stems, or plant it in bunches, or float it. If you let it grow on the bottom you can trim it often to make it a sort of shrubby looking thing. Few plants are as versatile as this one, which make it one of my faves.

If you want some, I could sell you some, I'd ship if you like. Not so hard to ship a portion, but sadly not cheap to ship. But at least this time of year no need for major insulation and such.

I doubt the root growth on the frogbit is due to nutrient problems. They'll grow roots over a foot in length - they get their carbon from air, as do most floaters, so if other plants are growing ok, frogbit will be ok too, assuming sufficient light. If you don't want roots that long, break off the longest ones. It does no harm.

Duckweed, on the other hand, does grow much longer roots if it is starved for nutrients. Long rooted duckweed is a sure clue to lack of nitrate and other nutrients in water. Well fed duckweed will have quite short roots, usually around a half or 3/4 inch. Roots more than an inch long are a sign of starvation at some point in the plant's life. I've seen them two inches long in a few tubs here and there.

Depending how serious you think the sparring issue is, you might also try some long thin pieces of wood, or twigs, as temporary sight line breaks. If you can find some that are well seasoned, soak or boil if you don't want them to leach much colour. You don't have to leave them in once the plant's get some height.

You could even use pieces of plastic pipe or even plastic plants for a time. Perhaps not pretty, but they'd work. I have the same issue with other fish too, such as Celestial Pearl Danios. The males will spar a lot more if they're always seeing each other.


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## SirAldousSnow (Jul 26, 2012)

My duckweed roots are about an inch long and after testing my water the nitrates and nitrites are both extremely low - just above 0ppm. I was thinking about leaving my catappa leaves for longer than my usual 2 week period in the hopes of their breakdown providing more nitrates. I use flourish excel daily and flourish comprehensive plant supplement on a bi-weekly basis but am thinking my tank is still slightly nutrient deficient.

I love the look of the Naja, is 11 dgh/2kh really that hard? I use RO water for changes and the catappa leaves to soften and increase acidity (i think they do that). Stupid question - is there such thing as having too many plants?


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

Nitrites should be ZERO, always. 

Nitrates on the other hand, can vary, and so long as they stay below 50 ppm, most fish are ok. I try to keep it no higher than 20, some aim to keep it below 10. Near zero is not so common to hear, but it's not bad. Either you have a light livestock load, so not a lot of nitrate is produced, or else your plants are using up most of it. How many fish do you have ? 

Letting leaves decay will add a bit to nitrates, but the major source is fish waste, or waste from other living things. Snails are a great addition if you don't have any. Nerites don't reproduce in fresh water, so they're a good one if you don't care for numbers of snails, and they keep leaves and glass spotlessly clean. 

Mystery snails are larger, lay eggs above water, so it's easy to control their numbers as well. They come in some pretty colours, such as purple, blue, ivory, gold, etc. I quite like them and they are fairly messy in terms of waste, so they contribute to nitrate levels more than smaller snails do. They need both sexes to reproduce, so if you only get one, you probably wouldn't get eggs. But even if you did, they're easily removed once laid. Neither Nerite nor Mystery snails will bother live plants. They will eat dead leaves, but not living ones. If you see them on leaves, they are eating bio film or algae from them, not eating the leaves.

There isn't really any such a thing as too many plants, unless the tank is so choked with them that fish can't find swimming room . Then you've got too many.. but otherwise, it's more a matter of personal preference and what kind of look you prefer. I rather like the jungly, overplanted look myself.

My comment on the water hardness was based on the number of drops you said you used on the test. It's been some time since I did a hardness test but I know I didn't use anywhere near that many drops, so to me that sounded like very, very hard water. What's the source for the water ? if it's Lake Ontario, likely it's not much different than water here. If it's well water, could be much harder. A lot of well water is really high in iron too, which can cause issues for plumbing and laundry, but is a bonus for many plants that have higher iron needs. As I recall, my water scored pretty high on the hardness scale, but I'd have to check it again, it's been awhile since I did the test and I don't recall the result precisely.

The Naja does very well in my tap water though. I don't use anything to soften or acidify my water, other than whatever effect the pieces of driftwood have on the water. All my tanks have wood, most have multiple pieces. 

I have noticed the pH has come down from what it was when the tank was new. Started out over 7.5, now it's much closer to 7. Again, not a test I've done recently, though I probably should check again, because it can change over time in an established tank. 

If you're using RO for WCs, you're cutting the hardness considerably simply by doing that. The catappa leaves have very little, if any, effect on acidity.. unless you use a ton of them and cover the bottom in a thick layer of leaf litter. They do add some humic acids, tannins and such and have antibiotic properties too, but only in a very small volume of water would you really notice a difference you could measure. Peat in the filter would have more of an effect, but it will tint the water dark, like wood will. "black water" effect, basically. 

I prefer not to alter the water's natural characteristics much. I don't have RO, and can't install it in my apartment even if I wanted to, so I don't keep fish that need soft or acidic water, nor plants that need those conditions. 

Though I may try keeping an acidic/soft 5G tank in future, so I can try growing some of the more demanding plants that must have those conditions. I'd probably use distilled to cut the tap water, as I have a small distiller I can use for that. But it's not practical for any tank larger than a 5G.

If you'd like some Naja, let me know, I can find out what it would cost to ship to you.


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