# Need HELP with CRS Parameters!



## Symplicity (Oct 14, 2011)

Hello all I just tested all my parameters and heres what I got

ph 6.4
KH 3 
GH 8
Ammonia = 0
Nitrite = 0 
Nitrate = 0

Going to buy a TDS meter tomorrow. 

My CRS are in a planted tank with CO2 injection @ 2 bps. 

Any advise would be awesome. I just got CRS yesterday.


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## coldmantis (Apr 5, 2010)

do you just want a nice planted tank and the shrimp to complement your plants or do you want to breed them, if you want to breed them I would take out the co2 completely. they won't breed with co2 that high


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## getochkn (Jul 10, 2011)

AT the very least you should kill you CO2 for a few days before adding shrimp, then slowly build it up so they can get used to it. Dropping them in a 2bps tank full of CO2, they may die in a few days. They will seem find at first but eventually the high CO2 can get to them. They may be fine, but if you start getting deaths in a few days, I would say it's the CO2.


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

Another thing beside your parameters is how stable they are? And size of your tank. These are important to keep your shrimp healthy and then breeding.


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## splur (May 11, 2011)

I really hope you didn't have the CO2 on when you introduced the CRS, they'll be dead or lethargic in a week otherwise (if you don't turn it off soon). And as others said, they won't breed.

Your other parameters seem okay. Temperature?

Also what is your water changing and feeding schedule like? Everyone seems to overdo it.


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## Symplicity (Oct 14, 2011)

I will kill my co2 right now.

my temp is 74.

It is a 25g

And I do once a week 10% water change. I will be using a air tube to slowly add the new water.


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## Bwhiskered (Oct 2, 2008)

My wife looks after the CRS tank. It is a 10 gallon planted tank. Once a week she syphons it half down and dumps in 4 litres of RO and then fills it with the garden hose. About once a month I add a new oal leaf. Our CRS mostly S grade or higher are breeding like crazy. We don't raise sissy shrimp.


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

Bwhiskered said:


> My wife looks after the CRS tank. It is a 10 gallon planted tank. Once a week she syphons it half down and dumps in 4 litres of RO and then fills it with the garden hose. About once a month I add a new oal leaf. Our CRS mostly S grade or higher are breeding like crazy. We don't raise sissy shrimp.


Shrimp are not as sensitive as most people think, but the initial period is critical. Once they are used to the environment then it's not so bad. I saw a video clip of an Asian breeder, he did a 95% WC in a big tank like 50G, when the old water is removed you literally see thousands of shrimp jumping/flipping on the substrate without water, then he filled the tank. He did that regularly too. Does that mean all of us can do the same? I wouldn't try.


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## charlie1 (Dec 1, 2011)

randy said:


> Shrimp are not as sensitive as most people think, but the initial period is critical. Once they are used to the environment then it's not so bad. I saw a video clip of an Asian breeder, he did a 95% WC in a big tank like 50G, when the old water is removed you literally see thousands of shrimp jumping/flipping on the substrate without water, then he filled the tank. He did that regularly too. Does that mean all of us can do the same? I wouldn't try.


I second that, they are certainly tougher than it`s made out to be.
I have done several experiments with CRS( not the s grades or higher grades)& is yet to have any casualties as is described here.
Regards


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## Symplicity (Oct 14, 2011)

Thanks everyone I've drastically reduced my co2. No deaths so far in 3 days of buying.

It's strange my ph does not fluctuate between with co2 and co2 off for 14 hrs...... 

I am also glad my params are ok 

Thanks for the comments I'll report back soon


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## CrystalMethShrimp (Apr 27, 2010)

Your parameters look good.

Remember that it's exponentially more important to keep your para stable as oppose to mucking around and bumping numbers +1/-1 here and thEre. This is why when breeders change water more then 50% the parameters are exaclty the same, esp in the the ph,gh,kh department.

If your using co2 in a 25 gal, keep it at 1bps intially to see how it goes. Ikve been hearing a lot of breeders in asia using co2 which helps promote the growth of benefial bacteria. They need the co2. The key point is to use it along side an air pump. I got an airpump hooked to a double sponge filter I grabbed from AI and the addition of 02 assists in keeping infection rates and negative bacteria low. I used to have random deaths every week or so but adding the air pump made a very noticable differnce.

If your grabbing a tds meter don't go to big al's, it's over priced. I got mine at a good deal from AI because I bought both a tds and ph pen. 

If it's new a tank. Leave the lights on 24/7 for 3 days then on a timer for 8 hrs per day. This will grow a nice thick green algae on your glass. I turn my lights on after 7pm which costs 50% less. Hope this helps, pm me if you have any questions.


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## charlie1 (Dec 1, 2011)

Symplicity said:


> Hello all I just tested all my parameters and heres what I got
> 
> ph 6.4
> KH 3
> ...


 Is it just me missing something here, i would think the tank is not cycled as yet so if that is accurate how can we be telling the OP the parameters look good?


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## getochkn (Jul 10, 2011)

charlie1 said:


> Is it just me missing something here, i would think the tank is not cycled as yet so if that is accurate how can we be telling the OP the parameters look good?


If the tank is planted and they are no adding any macro ferts, the plants are probably consuming any nitrates in the water. They also don't mention if there is fish in the tank. If it's just 5 CRS in the tank, the bioload is next to nil, and the plants would consume any nitrates, if any are even made and the plants don't consume the small amount of ammonia the shrimp would even produce.


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## charlie1 (Dec 1, 2011)

getochkn said:


> If the tank is planted and they are no adding any macro ferts, the plants are probably consuming any nitrates in the water. They also don't mention if there is fish in the tank. If it's just 5 CRS in the tank, the bioload is next to nil, and the plants would consume any nitrates, if any are even made and the plants don't consume the small amount of ammonia the shrimp would even produce.


That`s a whole lot of if`s ( Joke)
i think we need to know before we can recommend. - what do you think?
Regards


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## splur (May 11, 2011)

charlie1 said:


> Is it just me missing something here, i would think the tank is not cycled as yet so if that is accurate how can we be telling the OP the parameters look good?


Funny, I was saying something similar on a thread in SN.

How heavily planted is your tank and how old is the tank? Is it established?


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## Symplicity (Oct 14, 2011)

splur said:


> Funny, I was saying something similar on a thread in SN.
> 
> How heavily planted is your tank and how old is the tank? Is it established?


My tank is 6 months old now and fully established. It is 25G with about 10-15 blyxa plants, 20 stem plant, and a palm full of HC.

I measured my ph with CO2 for 4 hrs and without CO2 early in the morning. The pH was the same .... i think my plants use up all the co2!


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## Symplicity (Oct 14, 2011)

My Nitrates shot up to 40!! I think its because I cut my CO2 to almost nothing!

I removed a bucket (approx 5%)? and dripping some fresh (treated tap water) 1 drop a second over night.

I think I will quit feeding for 2 days aswell.... 

It may have also been due to the piece of spinach i left in the tank and could not find the next day :S (small 1 leaf of baby spinach)

thoughts??


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## splur (May 11, 2011)

Your plants wouldn't release nitrate unless your plants were dying and already rotting as a result of you decreasing your CO2. I'd say it's whatever you fed the shrimp and left in there.


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## getochkn (Jul 10, 2011)

Symplicity said:


> My Nitrates shot up to 40!! I think its because I cut my CO2 to almost nothing!
> 
> I removed a bucket (approx 5%)? and dripping some fresh (treated tap water) 1 drop a second over night.
> 
> ...


Your plants were probably eating the nitrates as their need for food was high because the CO2 was high. When the CO2 went down, their demand for food went down, so they stopped eating it. You must have a huge bioload to be producing 40ppm in nitrates in a day or so though.

How many shrimp do you have for 1 leaf of spinach? 10-20 shrimp you only need a piece of spinach the size of a pinky fingernail every 1-2 days.


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## Symplicity (Oct 14, 2011)

So after a 5% water change dripping over night my nitrates went down to 20.

I have increased my CO2 up abit to 2 bps and will re-test tomorrow. 

I have approx 40 shrimp in the tank.


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## Symplicity (Oct 14, 2011)

I am managing to keep my nitrates around 40. My questions are:
1. There is quite abit of dead plant matter when i disturb the substrate, is this bad?
2. I never removed my carbon filter media since purchase of my 2213. Should I replace the carbon with more bio rings??
3. Is an airstone mandatory? How can I give it a clean look in my ADA style tank?


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## splur (May 11, 2011)

Symplicity said:


> I am managing to keep my nitrates around 40. My questions are:
> 1. There is quite abit of dead plant matter when i disturb the substrate, is this bad?
> 2. I never removed my carbon filter media since purchase of my 2213. Should I replace the carbon with more bio rings??
> 3. Is an airstone mandatory? How can I give it a clean look in my ADA style tank?


Disturbing your substrate will create more temporary nitrate spikes. I'd be weary about it.

I don't have any carbon in any of my filters. I'm not sure how old your 2213 is but if it's older than a couple months then your carbon is probably just acting as more surface area for bacteria... but it's not something I'd keep in a filter long term as it can potentially leach back out stuff. Considering your nitrate levels are at 40, your tank is having no trouble converting the ammonia to nitrates.

Something is leaching nitrogen in your tank, I'd put it on the dead stuff and how much you're feeding them. Take out any big dead leaves, feed way less, and add in floating plants like frogbit and water lettuce. I used to have nitrate levels of around 20 ppm and brought it down to 0 after putting in floating plants.

You're probably also overfeeding. I feed my shrimp maybe once every 2 weeks... and do you leave the food in for more than an hour?


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## Jaysan (Dec 19, 2011)

splur said:


> Disturbing your substrate will create more temporary nitrate spikes. I'd be weary about it.
> 
> I don't have any carbon in any of my filters. I'm not sure how old your 2213 is but if it's older than a couple months then your carbon is probably just acting as more surface area for bacteria... but it's not something I'd keep in a filter long term as it can potentially leach back out stuff. Considering your nitrate levels are at 40, your tank is having no trouble converting the ammonia to nitrates.
> 
> ...


woah, you feed your shrimps once every 2 weeks??!?!:O
I feed my Crystal Reds once every other day with a bit of either blanched veggies, algae wafers or 'shrimp food' pellets. 
They seem to devour it up once I put it in the tank, lol

You must have lost of algae for the shrimps to eat if you only feed once every two weeks, lol


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## Symplicity (Oct 14, 2011)

I feed my shrimp daily and they eat like there's no tomorrow. Will cut back to every 2 days to help nitrate levels


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## CrystalMethShrimp (Apr 27, 2010)

They are scavengers/opportunists and will eat whatever you give them, not knowing when the next meal will come. I feed once per week. 

In your case alex, stop feeding for 1 week. They don't even really need food. I've never heard of a crs dying from starvation, but a ton from no3 poisoning.
Yup so
1) Stop feeding all together
2) Do a 30% water change but drip it into your tank slowly
3) Remove any DOM (decomposing organic matter)
4) Get some flooting plants like duck weed or frog bite. (They are amazing at removing no3)

And 5) STOP feeding lol


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## splur (May 11, 2011)

*smacks forehead*

Just because they eat the food doesn't mean they're hungry. You can feed them 5 times a day and they'll still go after the food given that you don't foul the water in the process. Their appetite depends more on water quality and if they're stressed or not. Unless you have like 200+ shrimp in a small tank where all the biofilm is being eating up quickly, you're overfeeding. Now we know where your nitrate levels are coming from, not even surprised anymore at everything that has happened to your shrimps.

Again, my shrimp tank has maybe 70 shrimp of juveniles to adult CRS. I feed them once every 2 weeks... maybe even less than that. Another secret, I haven't even changed the water in like 3 months although I think I'm risking it if I go any longer. I'm sure shrimp hobbyists are freaking out at that one. Still breeding like crazy, no deaths. I had deaths when I fed them every second day and did water changes every week.


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## Symplicity (Oct 14, 2011)

Lol can't wait to get home from work to check on them. Can't wait to also grab some floating plants to keep nitrates low.

Thanks for all the help guys!

Next steps are:
Remove dead plants without disturbing substrate.

Add an air stone to reduce infection.

Feed once per week.

Add duckweed and frogbit to reduce nitrates


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## splur (May 11, 2011)

Supposedly not changing the water is a bad idea.. haha, I guess I'll have to do a water change soon. Sounds like a good plan!


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## getochkn (Jul 10, 2011)

Symplicity said:


> Lol can't wait to get home from work to check on them. Can't wait to also grab some floating plants to keep nitrates low.
> 
> Thanks for all the help guys!
> 
> ...


Frogbit is nice. Duckweed is referred to by many as aquarium herpes, meaning once it's in your tank, its there for life and you can't get rid of it so I would be leary of adding duckweed. I have frogbit for sale cheap but I'm in Hamilton, probably too far for you.


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## Symplicity (Oct 14, 2011)

Add Duckweed or frogbit? Suggestions? I can't decide which or both to add.


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## splur (May 11, 2011)

I prefer frogbit. It's larger and easier to manage, duckweed is well... a weed.


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## Bwhiskered (Oct 2, 2008)

I would suggest Riccia. It grows on the surface in clumps or mats and some shrimp like to hang on it. You will curse the day that you even saw duckweed.


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## charlie1 (Dec 1, 2011)

Symplicity said:


> Hello all I just tested all my parameters and heres what I got
> 
> ph 6.4
> KH 3
> ...


OP i might have missed it along the way, but is this a breeding tank for shrimp or a planted display tank with shrimp ?


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

Frogbit for sure... I learned the hard way. I was given some "frogbit" and I just realized those are not frogbit, but great duckweed (a larger type of duckweed).


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

I don't understand why people have trouble keeping duckweed under control. I myself never had any problems. They're just floating plants, so all you need to do is to net them out.


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

I thought so too that's why I got it. I do like the looks and the fact they are great in removing nitrate and you won't have problem with surface film.

The problem though, is that they get stuck on the heater, canister tubes, and what not, or they stick to the tank above the water line. Then they may die and start to decay. My shrimp would eat some but if there's too much I'm worried about the water quality issue... you can get some ammonia from that.


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