# German Blue Rams not getting along



## destructo (Aug 12, 2009)

I recently got 2 german blue rams from Menagerie, the female first and then the male a week later. I have noticed that the male is now chasing the female around non-stop, 
Her colors are not fading which I though would happen with stress, so is it breeding behavior or just fighting. Any ideas?


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

In general, breeding behaviour. I would only worry if she is constantly cowering in at the top of the waterline near the corner of the tank and not reacting to food.

It is important to block line of site in the tank to stem aggression too. Rams, for the most part, won't hound each other to death however.


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## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

Throw two almond leaves in there. It'll mellow the chasing behaviour. A lot of chasing in cichlids gouramis and barbs can be mitigated by keeping the fish properly vitaminized and in high physical form, keeping ultra clean water and, in fish that come from softer water, almond leaves help. It has a mild relaxant effect.


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## destructo (Aug 12, 2009)

Chris S said:


> In general, breeding behaviour. I would only worry if she is constantly cowering in at the top of the waterline near the corner of the tank and not reacting to food.
> 
> It is important to block line of site in the tank to stem aggression too. Rams, for the most part, won't hound each other to death however.


I have noticed that she has some ripped fins now, I think I may have to get rid of the male or try the almond leaves, but he is constantly chasing her and nipping at her.


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## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

welcome to cichlids. Get a divider. Get some almond leaves.


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## destructo (Aug 12, 2009)

AquariAM said:


> welcome to cichlids. Get a divider. Get some almond leaves.


I got some almond leaves today, and I have her in a breeder tank for the time being. Although I may transfer the male to my girlfriend's tank, just worried that he will be aggressive towards her gold rams


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

It is just normal behaviour, I don't think it is necessary to seperate them. Let them figure things out.


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## destructo (Aug 12, 2009)

Chris S said:


> It is just normal behaviour, I don't think it is necessary to seperate them. Let them figure things out.


Ya but with ripped fins? If they were both chasing each other then I wouldn't mind , but its the male that's harassing her. I have since put the female into my girlfriend's tank so she can heal up before I place her back into my tank.


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## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

destructo said:


> Ya but with ripped fins? If they were both chasing each other then I wouldn't mind , but its the male that's harassing her. I have since put the female into my girlfriend's tank so she can heal up before I place her back into my tank.


Get a divider. If the male is significantly larger make a little hole that only the female can fit through. They fight sometimes. Ripped fins happen. High quality food and clean water will let ripped fins heal in a day or so.



destructo said:


> I got some almond leaves today, and I have her in a breeder tank for the time being. Although I may transfer the male to my girlfriend's tank, just worried that he will be aggressive towards her gold rams


It's the same species, so that's a bad idea.


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## destructo (Aug 12, 2009)

*Get a divider. If the male is significantly larger make a little hole that only the female can fit through. They fight sometimes. Ripped fins happen. High quality food and clean water will let ripped fins heal in a day or so. 
*
Would constant chasing around the tank be a good thing though? At first they were fine with each other and now anytime the male sees the female, he darts at her and won't stop until she gives him the slip.


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## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

destructo said:


> *Get a divider. If the male is significantly larger make a little hole that only the female can fit through. They fight sometimes. Ripped fins happen. High quality food and clean water will let ripped fins heal in a day or so.
> *
> Would constant chasing around the tank be a good thing though? At first they were fine with each other and now anytime the male sees the female, he darts at her and won't stop until she gives him the slip.


She wouldn't put out. It happens.


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## BettaBeats (Jan 14, 2010)

cold blooded!


 lol


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## Holidays (Apr 18, 2010)

get 1 more female or 1 more male and 3 more females (if your tank has more space and let some of them bond a pair). its a normal behaviour even my discus does that, I wanted to trade one of them because it keeps chasing the small one, and yes the victim's fin was torned, but the chasing was gone after 1 week and the fin is healed now. I have 5 discus in an 80 gal, they all get along now, occasionally one "bluff chase" the other ones for swimming too close.


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## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

You might want to find out if he has this pair in a 10 gallon.  More fish might not be the solution. Even a cave where only the female can fit, if it's big, would work


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## BettaBeats (Jan 14, 2010)

29 gal if i remember correctly?


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## destructo (Aug 12, 2009)

BettaBeats said:


> 29 gal if i remember correctly?


Close its 35 gal, and wouldn't ya know it, my girlfriend's golden rams just spawned today so I had to remove the GBR and place her back into my tank. I am not sure where to get a divider for the tank. The female is bigger then the male and there is a cave in the driftwood that she could hide into but she does not go in it. Should I place her into my guppy breeder device to protect her or just leave it as is?


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## destructo (Aug 12, 2009)

I tried another female in the tank and sure enough the male started to pick on her, so I removed the male and placed him into my 3 gal QT tank for the time being. Hopefully the females get along, I may try another male after returning the current one, but not too sure yet.


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## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

destructo said:


> I tried another female in the tank and sure enough the male started to pick on her, so I removed the male and placed him into my 3 gal QT tank for the time being. Hopefully the females get along, I may try another male after returning the current one, but not too sure yet.


All this moving and screwing around is unwise. Gold rams ARE blue rams. One male one female, maybe two. Change your setup around. It WILL work.


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## destructo (Aug 12, 2009)

AquariAM said:


> All this moving and screwing around is unwise. Gold rams ARE blue rams. One male one female, maybe two. Change your setup around. It WILL work.


So I should leave my male in the tank, but change the set up and it will work?
I was thinking of getting a flower pot to create a "cave" so that the females have somewhere to hide.


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## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

destructo said:


> So I should leave my male in the tank, but change the set up and it will work?
> I was thinking of getting a flower pot to create a "cave" so that the females have somewhere to hide.


Replicate their natural environment dude. Look it up and do it.


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## destructo (Aug 12, 2009)

AquariAM said:


> Replicate their natural environment dude. Look it up and do it.


I am trying dude, I have added almond leaves to lower the PH, the tank is pretty well planted with diftwood to provide hiding spots and I added another female to split up the attention of the male. All of this has not stopped him from chasing and nipping at the females. I have tried looking up solutions to this and nearly all the answers are to separate them, and I thought that the male being the aggressive one would be the best to remove.


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## Holidays (Apr 18, 2010)

I know its hard to see your female being chased and battered, but that's the behaviour of most cichlids. If you're lucky one male and one female will pair up but very unlikely, I found my pair of tropheus duboisi from keeping a group of 10, two paired, the rest I sold back. Even if you put lots of rock, the male still will swim all over the tank to chase her especially during feeding time, she will have to come out and he will chase her, so ocassionally she will come out to seek for foods. One male two females are okay, leave them be for 2 weeks, they'll be okay. They are cichlids, you gotta have strong stomach, they'll chase each other around


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## destructo (Aug 12, 2009)

Holidays said:


> I know its hard to see your female being chased and battered, but that's the behaviour of most cichlids. If you're lucky one male and one female will pair up but very unlikely, I found my pair of tropheus duboisi from keeping a group of 10, two paired, the rest I sold back. Even if you put lots of rock, the male still will swim all over the tank to chase her especially during feeding time, she will have to come out and he will chase her, so ocassionally she will come out to seek for foods. One male two females are okay, leave them be for 2 weeks, they'll be okay. They are cichlids, you gotta have strong stomach, they'll chase each other around


Well I just concerned with the ripped fins and the dark color that the one female has taken on, since the male has been added. The other female has broken his time up between the two of them, but when I saw the male now nipping at the new female, I just said "thats it, your outta here" and moved the male. I guess I could try moving things around a bit and get a flower pot or two. But I don't want start and play musical aquariums with the fish


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## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

destructo said:


> Well I just concerned with the ripped fins and the dark color that the one female has taken on, since the male has been added. The other female has broken his time up between the two of them, but when I saw the male now nipping at the new female, I just said "thats it, your outta here" and moved the male. I guess I could try moving things around a bit and get a flower pot or two. But I don't want start and play musical aquariums with the fish


Females don't get quite as big as males. Make some caves only the females can fit in. Caves everywhere. Rockwork not just pots. Be creative. Make several islands with sandstone/slate cavework and logs over top. Create a serpentine pattern so there are no direct sight lines in the tank. Create a few open areas that can only be accessed by travel either through the upper water column or very tight easily guarded spaces. Create several small tanks within a tank.

http://www.patrickbosley.com/gallery/DSCF0601.JPG

This person has created an enclosed territory on the left side of the tank. Do this about four times, in microcosm, with much smaller spaces to fit through and no direct sight lines. Try to avoid 'no man's land' in your setup. Make several small territories.


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## KhuliLoachFan (Mar 8, 2008)

The divider thing really works. I use egg-crate for species that are too large to swim through egg-crate. I think egg-crate plus craft-mesh would be good for smaller species.

W


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## TBemba (Jan 11, 2010)

great ideas

I would also recommend changing up the tank and putting the females in for a day or two after they feel at home in the aquarium move him back in. 

But yes this fighting or chasing is what cichlids are all about. Unless one is cowering at the top of the tank. A lot of the time I can usually see a pair formed in the LFS tank or better find a person that breeds them and get a bonded pair. 

I am surprised that the person that sold you the fish wouldn't have pointed a pair out to you. unless they were really young.


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## Holidays (Apr 18, 2010)

destructo said:


> Well I just concerned with the ripped fins and the dark color that the one female has taken on, since the male has been added. The other female has broken his time up between the two of them, but when I saw the male now nipping at the new female, I just said "thats it, your outta here" and moved the male. I guess I could try moving things around a bit and get a flower pot or two. But I don't want start and play musical aquariums with the fish


How are they doing now? the real issue is he is an alpha male, he wants all the space and all the foods, natural behaviour to survive. She will have dark and dull color because she doesn't want to challenge or fight him. If he doesn't chase the female during feeding time, consider yourself very lucky. Also, in reality, we have 40 gal, 3 feet long (or less) and he will swim across. You can put rocks, but she will still have to come out for food, and that will bug him, it's just instinct. She'll grow, you'll change the rocks formation, the size of holes or caves, you're going to stress the fish and possible yourself. Sure rocks would help to create some "safe house" or territories, but in time, he will learn that there is no food until you come around in the morning and feed them (feed them only once a day) and there is no point of chasing her anymore. The new female? he sees her as competition for food, "he don't like it", just give em time.


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## Holidays (Apr 18, 2010)

When I first started, I had 30 gallons, 2 tropheus duboisi, 1 yellow lab and 1 demasoni. Everytime I looked, 1 of the duboisi is chasing the other one non stop, they keep hitting the rocks, filter, heater and everything else in the tank, I want to pull my hair. Anyway I got a 55 gal, 8 more duboisi and 2 of them started to pair up (after a year) and defend their "spot" together. So hopefully you know what to do.


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## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

Holidays said:


> When I first started, I had 30 gallons, 2 tropheus duboisi, 1 yellow lab and 1 demasoni. Everytime I looked, 1 of the duboisi is chasing the other one non stop, they keep hitting the rocks, filter, heater and everything else in the tank, I want to pull my hair. Anyway I got a 55 gal, 8 more duboisi and 2 of them started to pair up (after a year) and defend their "spot" together. So hopefully you know what to do.


Tropheus are supposed to be kept in a species tank in much larger numbers than that. usually at least 20 is preferred and a larger tank than 55 gallons. Tropheus are Tanganyikan and should not be mixed with malawi cichlids. Certainly not demasoni. Not a good setup. Also- Tropheus are strictly herbivorous, and your other fish are not.


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## Holidays (Apr 18, 2010)

AquariAM said:


> Tropheus are supposed to be kept in a species tank in much larger numbers than that. usually at least 20 is preferred and a larger tank than 55 gallons. Tropheus are Tanganyikan and should not be mixed with malawi cichlids. Certainly not demasoni. Not a good setup. Also- Tropheus are strictly herbivorous, and your other fish are not.


bloating right right, ideally we all should have 100 gal + tanks and keeps 20 + species. In the wild, I am sure if they see shrimp or worms, they'll eat it. Look at NLS chiclids formula (pics of thropeus) main ingredient is krills, herring. syno cats can be kept with tropheus...I guess they're strictly herbivorous too?


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## Holidays (Apr 18, 2010)

Alot of cichlids show tanks, price possession of other GTAA members here that I've seen  , have tropheus, yellow lab and stunning hap ahli, they do just fine on NLS cichlids formula pellets.

http://www.oddballonline.com/nlsfoods/nlscichlid5lbs.html

Look at the cichild show tank in big als oakville.

You clearly search the internet up and down and post it here, but I don't think you've actually kept them together.


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## aln (Jan 26, 2010)

yah dont worri about it my pair always does that


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## Ciddian (Mar 15, 2006)

Wow.. Too early for me for this stuff. LOL Deleted the ego/fish food rant thing that just went on. Sorry OP. 

Get this train back on track.


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## KhuliLoachFan (Mar 8, 2008)

Hehe. Good that we have moderators around here, because otherwise I'd have to stop reading all the pompous lectures. 

If you keep a herbivore, give it some herb.  My fave is the HBH veggie flake.

W


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## destructo (Aug 12, 2009)

Thanks for all the advice, I have all 3 in my main tank, the original female is dull at times when the male chases her (not as often as before). 

The new female and the male get along now, no chasing or hiding, and both colors are bright and look great. They also seem to be around each other more often.

I would like to move to the original female to a tank where she is less stressed, but I only have a 3gal QT spare at the moment.


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