# Proper filter media advice needed



## monk21 (Dec 5, 2012)

Hello guys

I would like to ask anyone that knows. Can we substitute the company cartridges of the small filters with media like biomax, siporax, substrate and in general something else we buy in bulk instead of using their cartridges?

Especially if someone knows for marina and topfin brands.

Thanks


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

as long as the water doesn't end up bypassing it, yes you can use anything


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## monk21 (Dec 5, 2012)

pyrrolin said:


> as long as the water doesn't end up bypassing it, yes you can use anything


that's a response I understand and I agree. NOW, I had some people tell me that they cannot make it work and actually the water comes back dirtier than before (I don't understand how this is possible, probably they didn't even wash the media first). Any ideas? I mean, if you fill the filter with media, how can the water bypass it?


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

Sometimes it depends on the shape of the filter or its cartridge that are you are trying to fill with another media type, in terms of what will work best. Also depends on how well maintained the filter is. If it's filled with fine media, it's going to clog up faster and if there is any clear space for water to run through it will skip the clogged media and run out looking much as it went in. 

It can also depend on the shape or size of the media itself. Some shapes might not 'fill' a given space as well as some other shape would. Big round ceramic bio media, or big bio balls, are going to both use a LOT of space, and leave a lot of space, being designed to be used in larger volumes in larger containers. So don't use anything too large for the item you want to put substitute materials in. 

An example might be.. I took apart a tiny inside filter that was intended NEVER to be refilled. It was meant to be tossed out entirely. I sliced off the top of the plastic case and saved it. I pulled out everything inside. Bottom had a super fine sponge insert that would clog really fast, middle had extruded carbon and extruded biomedia that reduced ammonia.. some type of resin. Didn't want any of those in this little filter, so I tossed most of it. Kept the carbon just in case I might need it one day.

Cut a coarser piece of sponge, longer than original to take up the carbon space, filled the rest with floss. All I could rinse out easily. Used some fish line to resecure the top piece to prevent floss escaping. Works great, and no more tossing it away when it's clogged. 

Without seeing the filter you want to sub products in, all I can say is that most of the premade inserts I've seen for most HOB type filters or even internal filters, can be taken apart, some entirely, some partially. Some are glued together, so you might have to cut through the glue or maybe even the cover fabric itself to remove it. It may be a bonded floss cover, if it's still in good shape, use it again, but tied on with fishline or such like. 

Once the cover is off, remove everything inside, see it any of it is useful, note sizes and shapes and where they were. If anything is useful, certainly keep it, but replace what you don't like with something similar in size and general shape, so it fits the space reasonably well. Fishline and some netting tied around will help keep it in place. Might even make a simple net bag for biomedea to keep it in one place. Medium to semi coarse netting works, if the original cover failed to survive its removal. If you use something like nylon stocking, it's going to clog very fast too, so be aware. Up to a point, coarser is better, as it won't clog so much. 

If you use a very finely textured sponge for any filter portion, you'll find it clogs very fast and will need frequent squeezing out. Same may apply to floss, especially in small amounts, but so long as most of the gunk will rinse out, keep reusing it. 

But if your clean water output is in fact sending out unfiltered water, then it's bypassing the media for some reason. My best guesses would be, not enough replacement material, leaving unfilled voids; wrong kind or size of bio media, also leaving too many voids water can bypass through. That little filter I mentioned, no room in that for even one big plastic bio ball. But finely broken lava rock in a net bag would fit fine if you wanted to do that. Or some other ceramic media type, perhaps broken down into sizes that will better fill smaller spaces.

Chopped up scrubbies have been mentioned often as being useful for bio media and lending themselves well to being cut or shaped to fit with ease. They last well too.


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## monk21 (Dec 5, 2012)

thanks for the reply. what i don't understand is how can the water bypass the media. I mean, even if there is a mm space between media in there, at some point the water would hit something. Especially since the original cartridges only take 50% of the space of the filter and with media you are covering almost 100%.

http://www.petsmart.com/product/ind..._source=RatingsAndReviews&utm_content=Default

http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3943444&lmdn=Fish&f=PAD/psNotAvailInCA/No

these two above are the ones that mainly people had concerns about. I find it hard to believe that they couldn't make it work with other media, especially since they said that "water comes out dirtier than before". How is that possible unless you 1) haven't washed the media before you put them in 2) shake the filter everyday just for fun?


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

water takes the path of least resistance, there there is a 2 mm gap, it will go that way.


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## monk21 (Dec 5, 2012)

pyrrolin said:


> water takes the path of least resistance, there there is a 2 mm gap, it will go that way.


well ok, then why doesn't this happen with the canister filters?


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## BillD (Jun 5, 2006)

monk21 said:


> well ok, then why doesn't this happen with the canister filters?


It does. Water may have to pass through several times before the filter will handle all the nitrification. If you look at a Diatom filter, which traps virtually everything that goes into it, it still will take a while for it to remove all the particles. Granted this is different than a bio filter, but you have two things happening with a bio filter, in that not all the water passes through at once and not all the nitrification happens in one pass. The relatively high flow rate makes up for the bypass.
I picked up a couple of older Whisper filters a few years ago. There isn't much to recommend them, or the slide in cartridges they use. I placed two scrubbies in them, which didn't fit all that well, and used them like that. They worked fine.As well, I had a 15 I raised 3 Pseudotropheus flavus to adulthood, which was filtered by a Fluval internal filter, which contained 1 unrolled scrubbie draped along the intake tube within the filter, as the only media. This tank did contain a lot of rock, which probably became a big part of available bio media.


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## monk21 (Dec 5, 2012)

no, you didn't get what I meant. In a canister filter you put any type of media you want and it works. The water doesn't come out dirtier than it got there AND the filter itself is working.

Now, the question is why would these two (topfin and marina) stop working properly when you substitute the cartridges with media. Anyway, I smell many mistakes were made by those that tried to set them up actually


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

water can't come out more dirty than it went in unless there is extra dirt in the filter when it is put in.

Filtration has 3 parts

Mechanical, this is just a floss or sponge, something that picks up particles from the water.

Biological, this is an area that houses the bacteria that eats all the crap removing ammonia and nitrites.

Chemical, this is usually carbon that absorbs impurities in the water.

Some filters like most HOB filters combine the mechanical and biologic and chemical in one filter insert, the pouch of floss which is the mechanical and the floss does hold some bacteria which is the biological and usually the pouch contains carbon, the chemical filter.

These filter inserts do not hold bacteria well and much is lost on each media change. The majority of the bacteria is on all the surfaces in the filter box itself. Aqueon filters have extra parts, the blue pastic parts that help hold bacteria.

I like aquaclear filters because they have a dedicated biological filter media that lasts a long time, but you can toss in the stones into almost any HOB for a similar effect but not as convenient.

Many people do not bother with chemical filtration like carbon. I personally just use a sponge for mechanical and bio stones for biological in my HOB filters and only use carbon is there is a specific need at the time.


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## BillD (Jun 5, 2006)

It is important to note, that sponge inserts are not only mechanical media but also bio media. Prior to the renaming and the addition of ceramic rings, the sponge insert was the only bio media in AquaClear filters.


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