# Oscar eating like a champ... Jack Dempsey not so much...



## andygace

So we bought a Jack Dempsey and a Oscar at Big Al's on friday night. The Jack is about 3 1/4 inches long and the oscar is about 3.

The oscar is eating everything I give him, which includes so far 2 small rosie reds and some cichlid flakes. We just started feeding saturday night.

The Jack dempsey seems to try and get the food down but then just spits it back up? He looks really good, but just doesn't want to eat much for his size... water parims are perfect!


----------



## MacFish

Hmm, never seen that in regular JD's but it is a very common problem in the Electric Blue Morph. Usually it's the first sign of internal parasites. With the Blue's you don't have time to waste as it will kill the fish very quickly.

Was the tank cycled when you added them? Is the Oscar pestering the Jack at all?

For internal parasites, I like to soak blood worms in Metronidazole and Garlic Guard and then feed them. Hopefully the JD will keep them down.

I usually do 1 tablet of this for 2 cubes of frozen blood worms...










Mix it all up and add a little of this...










If it is too late the JD won't keep these down, you can treat the whole tank with HEX-OUT. Just read the instructions.


----------



## andygace

The tank is pretty much fully cycled I guess you could say? It was fully cycled but we changed all of the substrate before adding the fish and 100% water change... filter wan't touched though.

And all the oscar does to the jack is tries to go in his territory.. the jack hangs out in the bottom left corner and the oscar will sometimes intrude but the jack will bite at him and scare him off


----------



## duffgrot

Did you find out what the store was feeding him before you left? Sometimes if a fish gets used to eating a particular food it will not identify what you are supplying as food. Cichlid's in my experience generally aren't very picky eaters, but you might want to mix it up a bit. I usually find pellets work better for my oscar and jack, as well as a full assortment of frozen foods. My other cichlids actual eat what filters out of my oscar's mouth as he is a very messy eater. A very symbiotic relationship.


----------



## pat3612

Thats true they might not like the flakes you could try some blood worms just to see if he will eat. But I think macfish is right. After my Oscar that I got there got Popeye id treat them just to be on the safe side. When I got my EBJDs I treated them right away On macfish advice and they are thriving.


----------



## Riceburner

I mix things up just for variety. They eat whatever goes in the tank...including my fingers if I'm not fast enough.


----------



## Jackson

Most of the time (90%) if a fish is spitting out foods and it is because of sickness it will be a problem with the gills. This will make the fish weak and vulnerable to parasites. They are all conected.

It could also be the fish does not like the foods you are giving it. Try some krill or prawns they are very smelly and fish love that.

As for soaking with garlic save your money use real garlic. Cut it up into small chunks, but make sure they are not too small you will need to remove them before you feed your fish. You can even soak the foods with it over night in the fridge. It is way better than that store bought stuff.

Are you keeping these minnows you are feeding in a QT before you feed them to your fish? If not you should do so. Those feeders from LFS can and will be infested with parasites and diseased.

It could also be thet the tank is too small of 2 fish of such aggressive and territorial nature. The JD could just be streesed out because of the O.


----------



## andygace

I am going to do a water change tonight see if that makes them happier. Also the rosie reds we have had for about 3 months now in the goldfish tank... slowly discarding the annoying buggers 1 by 1! lol


----------



## andygace

Just thawed some frozen blood worms in a cup with their tank water and he loved them and ate quite a few


----------



## andygace

The oscar was looking a tiny bit pale yesturday but I did a 25% water change and he looks better today. The oscar swims around the tank looking very content where as the jack looks like he wants out. But the Jack's colors are flourishing. He is 10X more vibrant than when we got him so is that a good sign? Or can he still be sick?


----------



## MacFish

Sounds like a good sign to me. Keep an eye one things. If he is being fussy and only eating Blood worms, you can try soaking some pellets in garlic. Or, toss some pellets in wit the blood worms as they are thawing out. Make the pellets taste like blood worms and maybe he will be more inclined to start eating them.


----------



## andygace

The pelets we have are floaters and they always stay at the bottom and dont even notice them


----------



## pat3612

My 2 I brought home yesterday were the same try to leave them be for awhile and let them settle in . Once they start to color up thats a good sign.


----------



## MacFish

andygace said:


> The pelets we have are floaters and they always stay at the bottom and dont even notice them


Soak them in tank water to get them nice and soggy. Before you dump them i the tank, kinda squish them against the side. They should sink. typically soak them in a cup and squish a bunch of them so that when I dump them into the tank, there are a lot that sink at once so the shy fish has a chance to get some before the aggressive eater steals them all.


----------



## andygace

Never thought of that, will try next feeding time.

I just thawed out 1 frozen blood worm cube in tank water and dropped it in. The Jack Dempsy was going crazy for them, and when the oscar came along to try and eat the JD would start biting at him and fighting him! This was about an hour ago now and the Jack is spitting up all the rocks where the worms landed trying to find more and everytime the oscar comes close he still freaks on him. I dont know why the oscar isn't fighting back, maybe hes sick now? I think the oscar has grown about a 1/4 inch since we got him a week ago too, he looks bigger


----------



## andygace

If I put a 2 inch pleco in this tank will he be eaten?


----------



## pat3612

I wouldnt put thats me if it gets eaten the barbs will get caught in fishes mouth. You might get away with a big one that the fish cant eat but then again they might hassle it .


----------



## andygace

They had some nice 10 inch ones at Big Al's.....


Damn I need a BIG TANK!


----------



## pat3612

andygace said:


> They had some nice 10 inch ones at Big Al's.....
> 
> Damn I need a BIG TANK!


lol I think Iam going to need a 6 ft tank.  Cant seem to keep away from those JDs I was in Big Als today and some guy ordered a 265 gal and it was in. I think I might have drooled on it.


----------



## andygace

When I was at the one in Barrie Last friday there was a 265G sitting in the tank room

wonder how a 4 or so inch pleco would do in the 30GAL with the JD and oscar.... I would think the general rules dont apply (1 inch per gal) because they are always stuck to the side anyways?


----------



## andygace

Well Oscar and Jack are definatly doing alot better now.

Oscar just decided to eat a tank mate (small rosie red) and he looks very very pleased now... and the Jack is pretty hungry eating quite a bit and his colors are getting great


----------



## andygace

Do they oscars ever eat anything bigger than their mouths? I has already eaten all of the feeder rosie reds that Ihave had for about 3 months now but they will only about an inch long some 1.5. I plopped a goldfish on last night that is significantly bigger about half his size to see what happens and he is not trying to eat it... is he too big? I dont want to buy more of those ugly rosie reds lol


----------



## pat3612

Sometimes they just leave them alone for awhile so I have been told. Alot of Oscar people I talk to dont feed goldfish or minnows as they can carry bacteria to your fish . I now only feed mine pellets. shrimp. bloodworms. I have two convicts Iam breeding so Ill have live food if I need it but you really dont need to feed live food.


----------



## Jackson

pat3612 said:


> Sometimes they just leave them alone for awhile so I have been told. Alot of Oscar people I talk to dont feed goldfish or minnows as they can carry bacteria to your fish . I now only feed mine pellets. shrimp. bloodworms. I have two convicts Iam breeding so Ill have live food if I need it but you really dont need to feed live food.


I agree

Live foods are not the best way to go. If the fish take dry/frozen foods then you are all good and dont need the live foods. Live foods should only be given to fish that are known to only eat live foods like a south american leaf fish.

Not my words but the guy knows what he is talking about and this is great info~

"I refrain from using goldfish feeders. But, it's not due to their promoting a B1 deficiency. That can be worked around by proper gut-loading of the feeder goldfish before feeding them out. The problem I have stems from the water chemistry they're raised in. 
A great majority of feeder farms maintain feeder rearing ponds at very high copper levels (predominantly, chelated copper. But, some also use CuSO4). These compounds are used to stem diseases associated in overcrowded rearing ponds. These copper levels stay in the feeder's internal organs long after they leave the farm. And, in most lfs, feeders are binned with all, or most, of their shipping water which also is heavy in copper.
Moderate to high copper levels have been proven to cause liver dysfunction to liver failure in herps (reptiles/amphibs). Copper also is hazardous to most inverts. With all the tanks I run, I don't want to be in a situation where I'm moving fish/FRTs around to different tanks wondering if there's enough copper to kill the fish or turtle. Plus, with a few hundred thousand crayfish running around the hatchery, I don't even let pennies into the building. There's my 2 cents for you to ponder."


----------



## pat3612

Jackson said:


> I agree
> 
> Live foods are not the best way to go. If the fish take dry/frozen foods then you are all good and dont need the live foods. Live foods should only be given to fish that are known to only eat live foods like a south american leaf fish.
> 
> Not my words but the guy knows what he is talking about and this is great info~
> 
> "I refrain from using goldfish feeders. But, it's not due to their promoting a B1 deficiency. That can be worked around by proper gut-loading of the feeder goldfish before feeding them out. The problem I have stems from the water chemistry they're raised in.
> A great majority of feeder farms maintain feeder rearing ponds at very high copper levels (predominantly, chelated copper. But, some also use CuSO4). These compounds are used to stem diseases associated in overcrowded rearing ponds. These copper levels stay in the feeder's internal organs long after they leave the farm. And, in most lfs, feeders are binned with all, or most, of their shipping water which also is heavy in copper.
> Moderate to high copper levels have been proven to cause liver dysfunction to liver failure in herps (reptiles/amphibs). Copper also is hazardous to most inverts. With all the tanks I run, I don't want to be in a situation where I'm moving fish/FRTs around to different tanks wondering if there's enough copper to kill the fish or turtle. Plus, with a few hundred thousand crayfish running around the hatchery, I don't even let pennies into the building. There's my 2 cents for you to ponder."


Good point Jackson I didnt know that learn something new everyday Thanks.


----------



## andygace

Actually the reason I am giving live food is because we bought the rosie reds and goldfish like 4 mon ths ago to add some filler to our 20gal tank... but now we dont want em' in there any more because we want better looking fish so I figure we can off them one by one to the oscar. I give them 1 fish every 2 days and on the off days I feed bloodworms, flakes, or pellets. I also feed the Jack bloods, flakes or pellets everyday so when the oscar is hungry still he will eat those aside fom the fish. We only have like 2 feeder fish left anyways, so after this we will probably give him some just like once a month or something.

Another thing is we have had them for so long about half of them already died off with disease... so just the healthy-ish ones remain.


----------



## andygace

Ummm, I am getting a little scared that at feeding time the Jack is going to kill the oscar! I might take a video but everytime I feed them bloodworms the jack goes for them and as soon as the oscar gets close the jacks starts trying to bite his face VERY aggresivly... is this normal behaviour? The oscar just minds his own business too.


----------



## MacFish

They don't call them Jack Dempsey's for nothing 

I would try to spread the food out making it harder for the JD to "claim" all the food. Put some on one side and some on the other. He can't be in both places at the same time.


----------



## andygace

Bought some feeder ghost shrimp today and they ate about 8 of the little guys. They really love them.


----------



## Riceburner

hmmm...my little convicts hold their own against the JDs for food.


----------



## pat3612

Convicts are mean mine have some fry again tried to get a plant out of there today forget it . I dont know if they hurt when they bite. I had to do a water change too and they kept attacking the hose.


----------



## andygace

Well my oscar really likes me now after today... everytime I open thw canopy he goes crazy... if I dip the tip of my finger in the water he tries his best to attack me. My girlfriend put her face don by the water and we thought he was going to jump out of the water at her

Just fed again and the jack seems to have to be wherever the oscar is at feeding time. I put food on both sides and the jack just followed the oscar attacking him


----------



## andygace

I cannot beleive how much this oscar eats. Hes is probably about 4 inches now and last night in about 2 hours he ate 5 1 inch rosie reds. and he was still begging for more. If I hold them up to the side of the tank i can hear him tapping the glass he is so excited and he ate one right out of my fingers about 1 inch from the top of the water


----------



## Riceburner

healthy fish will keep eating as long as you keep feeding


----------



## andygace

Haha I know... I have been trying to not feed him only live fish so he eats blood worms too, but god damn he loves those rosy reds.

Is it even possible to over feed an oscar?


----------



## andygace

I swear he has grown about an inch since we took him home 15 days ago.


----------

