# problem with the snails?



## monk21 (Dec 5, 2012)

Lately I have noticed that a couple of my snails (out of a hundred I have) have some issues with their shells. Is it a known issue?


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## mistersprinkles (Nov 4, 2013)

There used to be a food called Tetramin Bottomin which was fantastic for feeding to snails. They all loved it. It was skim milk powder based so tonnes of calcium. They don't make it any more. I've read a lot about people using TUMS tablets for their snails. The fruit flavoured variety. Apparently the snails will eat them and can get their calcium that way. 

It's always better for snails to eat their calcium source than to pull calcium from the water. Some people will tell you to add things like Kalkwasser to the water but in my experience it is much better for the snails to eat their calcium source.


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## monk21 (Dec 5, 2012)

mistersprinkles said:


> There used to be a food called Tetramin Bottomin which was fantastic for feeding to snails. They all loved it. It was skim milk powder based so tonnes of calcium. They don't make it any more. I've read a lot about people using TUMS tablets for their snails. The fruit flavoured variety. Apparently the snails will eat them and can get their calcium that way.
> 
> It's always better for snails to eat their calcium source than to pull calcium from the water. Some people will tell you to add things like Kalkwasser to the water but (sorry to toot my own horn) my snails always looked better than theirs did, and my snails ate their calcium.


hm, that's interesting. Any specific aquarium products for that purpose?


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## mistersprinkles (Nov 4, 2013)

Tetramin Bottomin. But they don't make it any more .
I honestly don't know what to recommend for you. You could try the TUMS. It'll increase your hardness because it's calcium carbonate. 

When I had snails they still made Bottomin and that was my solution. No idea if there's any skim milk powder based foods out there other than that.


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## monk21 (Dec 5, 2012)

after a very quick browsing I found two important things about TUMS

1) they will cloud the water
2) they must be used daily

so, that means I will have cloudy water every day for several hours. not the best idea if that's the case.

Someone suggested cuttlebones. anyone tried any of these?


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## bob123 (Dec 31, 2009)

Go to a pet store and pick up what is called a cuddle bone which will be around the bird food section they are calcium snails love them and will not cloud the water, calcium is what they need for their shells. They are white about 4" long kind of oval in shape.


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## Hitch (Apr 26, 2009)

not really an issue at all unless you want to preserve perfect shells on your snails. Happens pretty often due to insufficient calcium, wont really harm them anyways (as I have never seen holes in the shells).

Do what Bob said about the cuttlebone, or get some crushed coral (substrate section), sprinkle some into the tank, or put them into a filter bag and put it into the filter.


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## monk21 (Dec 5, 2012)

I read that about cuttlebones somewhere else too, so I will be doing that. What do you suggest people? 1) dropping one in there for them to eat and retrieve after some minutes/hours? 2) dropping and leaving in there until eaten? 3) placing it somewhere so it dissolves in water? And how often do I do this?


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## mistersprinkles (Nov 4, 2013)

Adding calcium to the water will be fruitless. Don't put crushed coral in your filter or cuttlebone. Feed it to the snails. 

You can make your own food with say, tilapia, gelatin, skim milk powder, and feed that to the snails too.


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## Jackson (Jan 30, 2009)

Dap plaster of Paris or human grade calcium pills from shoppers drug mart with no vitamin D is what I use. 
Cuttle bone takes for ever to sink and the results aren't as good as he two mentioned above. 
You can also use a bag of crushed coral to increase the hardness that helps along with the calcium tabs and plaster of Paris. 
Gypsum powder from the asian market is also one that works from what I've been told but I like the plaster of Paris . 
Just add a bit of food in the middle and it gets them chewing through to get to it. Before you out it in the tank let it cure for 24 hrs. I use silicone ice trays to make the cubes if plaster of Paris. I've used it in tanks with fish and it doesn't harm them. Some of my plecos actually ate them as well. It's essentially like a weekend feeder block. 
The calcium pills I put in a little dish they love that stuff. Just keep it away from heavy flow or it will cloud the water. The coating on them is harmless so don't worry about it being green or purple. 
I also use some kent liquid calcium it does a good job too when combined with the other things I use.

Eventually the snail will die if the shell gets really bad.

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## monk21 (Dec 5, 2012)

you mean this? http://www.homedepot.ca/product/plaster-of-paris-2-kg/983384
how do i feed this exactly?


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## Jackson (Jan 30, 2009)

Yup that's it

Mix it like it says in the box, add some food to the middle of it, let cure for 24 hrs and then drop it in. Use a little dish it's easier to clean after it's been eaten. 
I use silicone ice trays as mentioned above to make the plaster cubes, it's easier to get them out and easy to clean.

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## Zidartha (Nov 16, 2012)

Jackson said:


> It's essentially like a weekend feeder block.
> Tapatalk


Why not just use a weekend feeder block? They are primarily Calcium anyway. I have used them successfully with snails.


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## Jackson (Jan 30, 2009)

Zidartha said:


> Why not just use a weekend feeder block? They are primarily Calcium anyway. I have used them successfully with snails.


For $5-$6 you can makes tons of them and you can control how big or small they are. You can also add what you'd like to them for the snails to eat.

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## monk21 (Dec 5, 2012)

by "let it cure" you mean just let it sit somewhere?


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## Jackson (Jan 30, 2009)

monk21 said:


> by "let it cure" you mean just let it sit somewhere?


Yes for at least 24 hrs
If not it will break apart

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## monk21 (Dec 5, 2012)

Jackson said:


> Yes for at least 24 hrs
> If not it will break apart
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


ok great, i may pay home depot a visit tomorrow. A very cheap solution indeed.


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

I've found the vacation feeder blocks they make with spirulina added to them seem to be very attractive to my snails. But as Jackson says, it's way cheaper to make them out of plaster. I plan to try making some, but I will add some spirulina powder to them. It turns them a pale blueish green shade, but spirulina is very nutritious, so they get a lot from it while they're munching the block.

I also find I really like the nano size feeder blocks, again, very expensive to buy, but the snails seemed to really enjoy them and they soon vanished. You could likely get some of those inexpensive ornamental ice trays, that make smaller shapes like stars or balls. Most are a good bit smaller than a standard ice cube. You can add any fish food to the middle of the plaster that you want, or even small pellets could be mixed into the plaster throughout, so some would be on the outside to really attract the snails.

I've never ever had any issues with water using the commercial blocks.. I've even used a turtle calcium block successfully, but those are pretty big. The snails make pretty short work of them, but the smaller size nano blocks are not as obvious as larger sizes are so I find I prefer the smaller size ones just for their appearance as much as anything else.

I tried cuttle bone too, and while it really didn't take that long to sink, they don't seem to munch on very much. It was more like it very slowly broke into smaller and smaller pieces, much like fish will flake into pieces after cooking, and the pieces would just get buried in the substrate. I find them when I stir it up a bit, slowly getting smaller but I've yet to see any signs of them being eaten. I don't think they're nearly as good as the plaster blocks are.


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## monk21 (Dec 5, 2012)

Good info. As soon as I am done with my filter issues (damn how noisy quietflow is), I am planning on ourchasing this plaster thing, mixing it with some green veggie flakes I have and using the ice tray trick. Then I will report what happened!

By the way and I cannot stress it enough, I need to get rid of my dozen baby snails. If anyone wants any for free, let me know


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

Are they mystery snails ? If so, I can give them a home. Pm your location, I may be DT on Friday.


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## monk21 (Dec 5, 2012)

Can i ask something? will the block of plaster ever be as hard as the vacation feeders at the store? It has been 20+ hours and it is breaking down in my hand.


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

It should be rock hard within 24 hours. It's the same thing they use to make plaster casts for broken bones. How runny did you mix it ? I wonder if too much water would affect the way it sets ?


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## monk21 (Dec 5, 2012)

Fishfur said:


> It should be rock hard within 24 hours. It's the same thing they use to make plaster casts for broken bones. How runny did you mix it ? I wonder if too much water would affect the way it sets ?


Ok so here is the exact procedure.

I took a plastic ice tray and since I had no silicone one and I didn't want to ruin it, I covered it with a plastic bag. That made the removing of the blocks verrryyyyy easy and clean.

I mixed food with the solution and set it aside. After an hour or so water had gathered at the top of the cubes which I took out. 20 hours later I threw two of them in the tank. They are still just fine. Snails eating


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## monk21 (Dec 5, 2012)

update

more than 40 hours have passed and the blocks are still not hard as rock. I can still very easily cut them with my nail. I guess next time I will add a lot less water and see how it goes. Two cubes (size of a regular big ice cube) have almost been eaten in less than a day in my tank by the way!


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## Kimchi24 (Mar 22, 2013)

I have the same issue but I've been feeding zucchini and cuttlebone. Mainly because it is exam season and I can't go out to Home Depot lol. Monk, what do you add in other than the plaster?


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## monk21 (Dec 5, 2012)

Kimchi24 said:


> I have the same issue but I've been feeding zucchini and cuttlebone. Mainly because it is exam season and I can't go out to Home Depot lol. Monk, what do you add in other than the plaster?


fish food. I just mixed some flakes, algae rounds etc in there


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## Jackson (Jan 30, 2009)

Are you curing them in the mold? If you are take them out once they are set and cure on a piece of paper.

Another thing is don't mix it with the food. Dump in the plaster until half the mold is full then place the food in the middle and cover the other half with plaster. Mixing it in will also cause it to be soft.

I use cold water when I make them you'll have to work fast though when using cold water it sets much faster than with warm water.

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## monk21 (Dec 5, 2012)

Jackson said:


> Are you curing them in the mold? If you are take them out once they are set and cure on a piece of paper.
> 
> Another thing is don't mix it with the food. Dump in the plaster until half the mold is full then place the food in the middle and cover the other half with plaster. Mixing it in will also cause it to be soft.
> 
> ...


yes I let them cure in the ice trays. So, I just put the fish food in the trays, mixed water and plaster in a glass of water and poured it in there. that's it. no more mixing


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## Jackson (Jan 30, 2009)

Cure them in the open air

In the tray they are not curing

Do it how I said I do. Fill up half with plaster place the food in the middle then cover the rest with plaster.

Another reason for placing it in the middle is to have the snails eat through the plaster to get to the food.

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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

That makes sense.. a plaster cast cures hard quite fast but that's because it's in open air. 

Now Jackson makes the point, clearly, leaving the plaster to sit in the molds would greatly slow down the evaporation rate, as water would have to make it's way through the thickness to exit at the surface only, vastly slowing the curing process.

I take mine out of the moulds as soon as they set and they harden fine. So I hadn't ever thought about what would happen if I left them in the moulds.. so it didn't occur to me it would cause a problem until it was pointed out.


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## monk21 (Dec 5, 2012)

No worries. That is how we learn right? So should I have one in there at all times?


By the way I was thinking about what was said about food being in the middle so they have to eat their way to it, ut wouldn't it be even better if it was either at the bottom (so they eat all of it to get to it) or even mixed with the plaster ao every bite has both calcium and food?


Lastly, would these diy blocks be as bad for the water as the normal vacation feeders?


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## Jackson (Jan 30, 2009)

I just find it makes them work harder when it's in the middle and they eat more of the plaster that way.

You could try the other ways as long as it holds up in the water.

Snails have a good sense of smell so if it is at the bottom they'll only eat from the bottom.

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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

I haven't ever had a water quality problem with the vacation blocks I gave the snails. I only recently started making my own version of the things. 

I used to get the ones with spirulina mixed into them, they're sort of pale blue green, and I mix some powdered spirulina into the ones I make now. The purchased ones would be eaten long before they could dissolve into the water. I also used to buy the 'nano' sized ones.. Maybe a cubic inch, give or take.. they would be eaten more quickly, so had even less chance to dissolve. The ones I make are not very big either.

One thing, if you have water that's even a bit acidic they will dissolve much faster than they do in alkaline water.


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## monk21 (Dec 5, 2012)

Wouldn't most people that have snails have plants and therefore acidic water?


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

Depends what plants.. only a relatively small percentage of the plants we grow need soft or acidic water. They tend to be among the more difficult plants to grow well. 

But of these, many will still grow in harder, more alkaline water than is ideal, just as many fish will do ok in water that's not the same as their native waters. The plants may not grow or flourish quite as well, but a lot of them will still grow. So it really depends what plants you are growing, whether the parameters have to be soft/acid instead of neutral or alkaline and harder.

A great many of the snails we like to keep don't do so well in acidic water either, though there are exceptions. Some of the snails from Sulawesi come from mildly acidic waters, and if their diet has enough calcium, their shells are ok. But a lot of snails will end up with acid erosion of the shells if the water is acidic, and mystery snails are one of the ones that really do need alkaline, hard water.


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## Ciddian (Mar 15, 2006)

When I was dealing with some really ill mystery snails I had good luck with the plaster and the calcium pills. I also added calcium to the water simply because I had it at the time.

The new shell growth was good, but the damaged areas never really filled in as nice has I would have hoped but it saved the snails. They had been hit with copper treatments or ick.. and somehow made it. But their shells had just fallen apart.

the plaster of paris is nice to work with, just takes some to get used too. Took me a few times as well. lol.


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## monk21 (Dec 5, 2012)

update on DIY calcium blocks

Second time the mixture was a lot thicker. First time it was like water and second time like dough. Funny fact is that the first one dried a lot faster. The second one has been there for already 35+ hours and it is still not dry. I just took it out of the ice trays, not possible to be done earlier.

The only difference is that this time I mixed the plaster with a lot of fish food


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## monk21 (Dec 5, 2012)

Guys it has been almost 3 days and the blocks that are mixed with crushed flakes will keep dissolving in water. Maybe the mixing cannot happen? Maybe the flow in the water is too strong?

If I leave it dissolve in there, will it create any problems or the nutrients will still go to the fish and snails?


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## bob123 (Dec 31, 2009)

For a couple of bucks you can get cuddle bones at the pet store and put them in the tank and they don't dissolve very quickly.


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## monk21 (Dec 5, 2012)

bob123 said:


> For a couple of bucks you can get cuddle bones at the pet store and put them in the tank and they don't dissolve very quickly.


Yeah I researched into that and I dont find cuttlebones worthy. Mostly floating, no food inside, dont always attract snails, too expensive


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

If you wait awhile, cuttle bone will sink. Just takes time. But I found my snails only nibbled on it now and then, mostly it just slowly dissolved in the water. I agree it's expensive.

I'm mystified as to the problems you are having. Plaster of Paris should end up rock hard if mixed with water as instructed on the box and left to cure in the air once set. And while it will dissolve once it gets wet again, it should not happen too fast. The small vacation blocks I've used in the past lasted at least a couple of weeks.

I would make sure they are not sitting right in the path of the strongest water flow in the tank though.

I wonder if perhaps too much fish flake might have interfered with them setting properly ? 

Maybe try mixing up a very small batch without anything else added to it and see if that batch sets harder and lasts longer in the tank. If it does, then maybe it's too much food, make another batch with less food added. You only need enough to entice the snails to munch on it. 

If it keeps dissolving very quickly, I'd take the package of plaster back and ask for an exchange. It might be that something is wrong with this package. Not sure what might be wrong, but this is the same stuff used in the commercial blocks, so it should not be falling apart this fast.

I don't think it will do any harm to the tanks if it does dissolve fast. Extra calcium in the water would harden it a bit more, but not a huge amount. The food would mostly end up on the bottom, where it would be eaten eventually or you can siphon it out if you want to.


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## monk21 (Dec 5, 2012)

Thanks for the advice. The problematic butch was my swcond one. The first that was slightly smaller cubes with just a bit of food in it NOT mixed did a lot better


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## mistersprinkles (Nov 4, 2013)

Salvation!!

http://www.tetra-fish.com/Products/...ramin-tropical-sinking-fish-food-tablets.aspx

Tetra still makes Bottomin!!!

You just have to order it directly from them.

If I had snails I'd be all over this like a snail on Bottomin.


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