# Black discus



## Ciddian (Mar 15, 2006)

Ookkay...

So at work there is this pitch black discus shoved up in the corner of the tank.. I would honestly take him home if i had the room...

What the hell can i do to help him? He has a pea sized hole starting in his head atm as well.. There was a pair, but i honestly dunno what happened to the other one. (Only there one day a week)

I dont know a terrible amount about discus atm.. so nill on trying to make them better...

Any help you can give i would appreciated it!

He's in a 50 gallon around, fully planted.. not 100% on the temp, but i can definatly find out for you. The fish room is gunna get colder for sure thou with the winter comming...

Thanks!


----------



## dr_sudz (Sep 12, 2007)

which store do you work in? They really should think about keeping the live stock at a good temprature!


----------



## Ciddian (Mar 15, 2006)

its the Pj's in pickering... Its not too bad but the problem is that out outter wall which has the line of tanks on gets so cold in the winter. So they have to be pretty careful about where fish go...

The place is pretty beaten up, really needs a rehawl.. I just hope it gets done soon.  

The discus in question is in his own tank away from the wall, but i dont remeber it being too warm..


----------



## dr_sudz (Sep 12, 2007)

if he is getting HITH then you need to up water changes, start by doing 15% a week and work your way upto 25 then slowly up to 75% of the water.
The thing with HITH is that it is all due to water conditions. Add salts to the water and check out the temp to make sure the tank is plenty warm for him. Should bring him around.


----------



## dr_sudz (Sep 12, 2007)

You really want to get on this fast thats for sure. IF you have just the beginings of HITH you may be able to catch the problem in time.


----------



## Ciddian (Mar 15, 2006)

i'll try my best for sure.. there is only so much i can do since its at work.. I dont know if i can add the salt, its a planted tank and no room for a hospital tank..

We do have one lone tank in the back.. I just dunno if he will be remebered.. 

But i will do what you said on the fridays, i'll keep you updated!


----------



## Pablo (Mar 27, 2006)

Dr Suds... ... .. no offense man but... salt and discus??
This is very bad for them. You should never do that.


Jess,

first things first, make sure the temp is 84 or 85 ferenheit.

As far as water is concerned that should be a fairly soft water tank if it is heavily planted with co2 (is it?). If not, check hardness kH pH see where they're all at. Ideally get the water to a very low hardness below 100ppm and a kH of maybe 3 or 4 with a pH of about 6.5-7 and nitrates near nil. 

If thats too much of a PITA try just mixing R/O with tap water and make sure the kH is high enough to hold the pH.

As per the hole the fish is probably stressed to hell, very lonely, thus more stressed, emaciated, and heavily lacking fatty acids. I dont know what the odds are of one baby discus that size surviving even in excellent conditions given their need to be in a group at that stage but I dont know.

To fix the hole you'll want absolutely pristine clear water, and fatty acids. Soak his food in SELCON or Kent ZoeCon. That will fix it quick. If you can't get your hands on those feed something extremely rich in unsaturated fatty acids. mysis shrimp and crushed krill for example but honestly your best bet is the sel/zoecon

and if you have any sort of pull as to what decisions are made at your PJs PLEASE make them stop carrying fragile fish. Few if any pet shops are worthy or capable of carrying discus that I have ever come across and the rest are just not able to keep it up and be fair to the fish. Discus belong in the basements of very enthusiastic hobbyists who sell them to other enthusiastic hobbyists and everyone keeps them in water so clean you could build microchips in it.


----------



## Ciddian (Mar 15, 2006)

its pj's...i work four hours on my off time... I dont think i have much pull LOL

There has been a big staff roll over, so some new faces are in the store. New fish manager... I'll see how it goes. Sadly not many of the discus do well  Hopefully they will stop carring them. 

I've honestly never sold one, they havent been in a sellable state..


----------



## dr_sudz (Sep 12, 2007)

Hey Pablo sorry that i was not aware the the discus couldn't handle the salts.. but I do know they need clean waters to live in.. More water changes the better in this situation. The problem with a place like PJ's is that they are not focused enough to provide the right care for every aspect of pet. Fish always get the brunt of bad care.


----------



## Brian (Mar 14, 2006)

The salt suggestion is fine as long as it doesn't get brackish.


----------



## Pablo (Mar 27, 2006)

Not really man.

Try using salt to treat something like that in an angel let alone discus and the condition will deteriorate rapidly. There are south american cichlids that tolerate near brackish conditions swimmingly. discus are not one of them. They have virtually nil tolerance for salts


----------



## moon (Mar 11, 2006)

Discus can handle salt for short periods. My first line of defence for sick discus is salt at 1tblesp per 10g. This treatment for a week. 
Discus also do not require soft water for growing out. All my discus are growing out in hard well water. Soft water is required for breeding.
This is my experience and some of the breeders that I know.
Ciddian
The discus should be isolated, temp increased to 90 and treated with Metro if the diagnosis HITH.


----------



## BillD (Jun 5, 2006)

Have to agree with moon on this one. I did see a treatment using potassium permanganate for black discus, in an old FAMA, that was supposed to be very effective.


----------



## moon (Mar 11, 2006)

I use PP for external parasites like gill flukes but Metro for intestinal stuff.


----------



## Ciddian (Mar 15, 2006)

just an update... his colour is comming back. He was up in the front of the tank today so that was nice to see. The hole in his face has not grown at all...

I am really pushing for some change in the dept since we still dont have a manager. POs. is avail for anyone insane enought to try LOL  

I turned up the temps before i left last week. Not sure what my buddy has been doing either but its helping... I also talked to my new store manager about the discus and the state they had been in...or turn into..

That fish was amazing when it came in...


----------



## Pablo (Mar 27, 2006)

If I can be a complete Nazi about everything Im in charge of I'll take it.


----------



## Ciddian (Mar 15, 2006)

LOL give her a try!


----------



## april (Dec 28, 2007)

not true they cant handle salt. first line of defence for skin infections. but its not going to help hith. you need high heat at in 90 f and clean clean water bare bottom tank..and metronidazole. 400 to 500 mg per 10 gallons daily. 50 percent wc daily and re-add the meds. as you said..not likely its going to happen at the lfs. im afraid he may not make it. id say hes not eating..hence the metro and high heat. flagellates. 
but as to the salt..if they get a bacterial infection..a famous top breeder in michigan uses up to one tablespoon per gallon . and ive used it also for disease. but it sounds more like flagellates etc to me. unless he was added to existing stock..then he could also have disease which the others could be carriers of..and he didnt have immunities. 
salt is also used to help with ammonia or nitrites problem . when we import discus we always add salt one tablespoon per 10 gallons to the tank. then let it run out once they acclimatize with wcs.
hi moon. moon gave you guys great advice. pp is good for bacterial problems and tanks with high bioload. discus need steady parameters. no ups and downs in ph etc. i know someone who has phof 10 he raises in these parameters. but of course ro for breeding. more minerals..better growth. us here in vancouver..discus grow slower . 0 hardness . too much rain..


----------



## Ciddian (Mar 15, 2006)

I am sorry for the late update. I recently found out that the discus died. A huge shame.. 

The store has someone who hasnt worked as a supervisor before from what i know but i know he is trying. I hope things turn up. They did hire a guy who is supposed to keep on top of cleaning and special needs of the fish. I have a good feeling about the guy.


----------



## moon (Mar 11, 2006)

april said:


> not true they cant handle salt. first line of defence for skin infections. but its not going to help hith. you need high heat at in 90 f and clean clean water bare bottom tank..and metronidazole. 400 to 500 mg per 10 gallons daily. 50 percent wc daily and re-add the meds. as you said..not likely its going to happen at the lfs. im afraid he may not make it. id say hes not eating..hence the metro and high heat. flagellates.
> but as to the salt..if they get a bacterial infection..a famous top breeder in michigan uses up to one tablespoon per gallon . and ive used it also for disease. but it sounds more like flagellates etc to me. unless he was added to existing stock..then he could also have disease which the others could be carriers of..and he didnt have immunities.
> salt is also used to help with ammonia or nitrites problem . when we import discus we always add salt one tablespoon per 10 gallons to the tank. then let it run out once they acclimatize with wcs.
> hi moon. moon gave you guys great advice. pp is good for bacterial problems and tanks with high bioload. discus need steady parameters. no ups and downs in ph etc. i know someone who has phof 10 he raises in these parameters. but of course ro for breeding. more minerals..better growth. us here in vancouver..discus grow slower . 0 hardness . too much rain..


HI april
It's good to see you here. Welcome to the forum.
Joe


----------

