# Making a sump, help!!



## BKTruong (Jun 29, 2009)

I want to make a sump and drill my own holes and make straight line solid piping other than the flexible hoses. I have only a 20 long tank and a 10 gallon sump. Question is, what size should I make the holes for my sump? I heard 1.5" is the average hole size but shouldn't I go smaller as my tank is small to decrease water noises? I was thinking maybe 30 millimeters and secondly I've read somewhere that the color of the piping matters for some reason? Is this true because generally every sump I see people are using white piping with the red knobs. Finally does anyone know where's a good place to get those white piping with red knobs? 


Thanks everyone!


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

The size of the hole depends on the amount of water passing from your tank to sump - but generally, 1.5" piping is good - any smaller and you risk an eventual clog. On my 20g I have a 1.5" drain and it's dead silent.

You can get the plumbing at most plumbing shops (yellow pages helps) - where in Toronto are you? JJ downs in Etobicoke has everything yo'll need, but there are a lot of smaller places around town that should suffice. 

Use white or grey PVC piping - don't use ABS (Black) and make sure you're getting PVC not cPVC, which is treated to resist high temperatures.


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## BKTruong (Jun 29, 2009)

Hey Ameekplec thanks for the quick response and now that I know your 20 gallon set up is silent with 1.5" piping I'll be more confident in drilling my tank and sump now. Just wondering what's wrong with black tubing, does it build up more bacteria? I live in Thornhill btw but if I can't find any good plumbing stores around here then its nice to know there's a place in Etobicoke I can confidently resort to. Thanks!


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## BKTruong (Jun 29, 2009)

Oh yeah and I was going to order the glass drilling tool bit online to drill my tanks but is there any stores in Toronto that would carry it so I wouldn't have to wait for shipping?


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Try and call any of these places once you have an idea of what you need:
http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&ei...&sa=X&oi=local_group&ct=more-results&resnum=1

I'm sure one or two of them will have everything you need.

I have no idea where to get diamond hole saws, but I'd have to imagine that you could get one at a glass cutting shop, or a tool store. Or UTC has some I know also. Or you can order them online.


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## BKTruong (Jun 29, 2009)

Thanks Ameekpleco although I too know how to use google lol but just wondering if anyone knew any places that's good personally. As for the drill bit I'll just order it online as originally planned, thanks a lot Ameekpleco!


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

You might want to check out glass-holes.com, their overflow kits are pretty cheap and popular, and from what I've heard, work very well.

http://www.glass-holes.com/category.sc?categoryId=3


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## conix67 (Jul 27, 2008)

You can also try lowes for plumbing part. There's one at Steeles and Markham and MajorMackenzie and Dufferin. They are both almost equally far away from your place.


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## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

There's one in Caledonia/South of Lawrence as well.

HTH


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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

I don't know why you are trying to drill holds on a 20G. It's just not worth the cost put into it. Wouldn't you be better of going to a custom made shop like North America Fish breeder and just order a pre-drilled 20G tank? Or better, putting all the money into a 20G, I'd think it's much worth while if you start with a 55G or something.

Anyway, just my rant. I don't get it. But if you must go ahead with it. Depending on the size of the hole, Canadia tire does have glass drills. Cost around $50 I think, can't remember. I think they only go up to 1" though. You have to check.

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## Doctor T (Apr 23, 2009)

I ordered a glass hole drill bit from ebay. Hong Kong I believe. ~$12.50 CAD shipped.



ameekplec. said:


> You might want to check out glass-holes.com, their overflow kits are pretty cheap and popular, and from what I've heard, work very well.
> 
> http://www.glass-holes.com/category.sc?categoryId=3


I was looking at those overflows a few weeks ago. I like the small footprint of the overflow boxes, but I dismissed them because I wasn't sure about the modified durso design w/ the elbow and air hole. Anybody local have any experience with them? Are they as quiet as the more convention durso, w/ the durnturned elbow in the box and the external standpipe?


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Doctor_T, I've been thinking about this design for a while now - their internal baffle system I think is basically instead of having the downturned elbow, you make a cover for the bulkhead about 2" x 1" x 3" - so the opening is ~2 square inches in cross sectional area, which is greater than the area of the opening of 1.5" ID PVC (~1.76 sqin). So if with that cover instead of the downturned PVC, you can make the overflow box a lot narrower.

I intend to work this into my next set up - I don't mind if the box is 12" long (well, 10 x 2 is sufficient for about 750gph), as long as it's super low profile to avoid the box jutting out into the tank.

As for the external air inlet of the durso, I'd just keep that - if you're going out the back, you're going to need 4 - 5" (I budgeted for 6, only used 4") of space back there anyways, so the durso standpipe doesn't add any extra space requirement.

where did you get your drill bit? I thought I had a linky to a cheap HK place, but apparently I deleted it.


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## KnaveTO (May 13, 2007)

You can also have NAFB drill your tank for you. Just need to get the tank out there and back.


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## Doctor T (Apr 23, 2009)

ameekplec. said:


> Doctor_T, I've been thinking about this design for a while now - their internal baffle system I think is basically instead of having the downturned elbow, you make a cover for the bulkhead about 2" x 1" x 3" - so the opening is ~2 square inches in cross sectional area, which is greater than the area of the opening of 1.5" ID PVC (~1.76 sqin). So if with that cover instead of the downturned PVC, you can make the overflow box a lot narrower.
> 
> I intend to work this into my next set up - I don't mind if the box is 12" long (well, 10 x 2 is sufficient for about 750gph), as long as it's super low profile to avoid the box jutting out into the tank.
> 
> ...


Hmm, I don't see any bulkhead cover in their kits, or in the how-to video (which is great btw). The design seems so simple, and optimizes the space exactly where I want it. Almost seems too good to be true - I just wonder if there are any issues w/ this design.
Here's the assembly pic:
http://reefercentral.com/images/assembly2.jpg

I got my drillbit (65mm) from ebay seller lau*** (THK Diamond tools). I just ordered it on Thursday. Hope to get it this week.

Interesting to note: they say use a cordless drill to avoid electrocution!??? I know there's water, but didn't know that corded drills would be a hazard that way.


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## BKTruong (Jun 29, 2009)

Hey everyone thanks for the replies and sorry for my late response as I've been busy... It turns out I found some of my old equipment from my other older fish tanks in the basement that I bought and never used and I'm gonna use it for the new little set up... Thanks anyways Ameekplec and as for Conix I went to Lowes and like you said it had everything i needed, thanks alot!! again Lol Btw I took a look at your 75g set up and damn... *jealous* I had the same expression on my face as what seems to be your nephew? Lol

And as for Zebrap13co, I like being able to build things on my own. Drilling glass holes on my own would be something fun (if successful) and beneficial for any other time in the future and the more one learns on his own the more creative he/she can be with their other upcoming designs. You may "front" about bigger set ups and blah blah but bottom line is I want to do a little fun project set up for now and want to make holes and be creative and whatnot as I have all the free time in the world right now as school doesn't start again until September. Secondly, I already have 2 120 gallon tanks and 1 other 40 gallon tank so if I really cared to set up a bigger salt water project then I would have instead. 

Attached are pictures of my fish tanks and my 20 gallon salt water as of now that is barely completed and still needs lots of work of which I'm working on. Like I said I found old equipment that I never end up using in my 120 gallon tanks downstairs and so I used them instead so I don't need to drill holes anymore although I already ordered the drill bit for $20 only. Keep in mind that I will be replacing the light and cruddy (so I've heard and read) Sea Clone 150 skimmer sometime in future. I will be setting up that 120 gallon tank in future but for now I just want to set this little thing up for my room. Finally, sorry for the bad quality pics as its from my cheap BlackBerry Pearl that's only 1.3mp, makes everything look more doll and dirtier lol.

Cheers!


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Use a corded drill - if the drill slows down unexpectedly or stops, there's a chance you can shatter the glass.

Ah yes THK tools. They're the guys in HK.

Here's my idea for the overflow. Makes it ultra low profile (2.5" off of glass).

Dimensions are 8" x 2" x 6" - made to handle ~600 gph. The hood over the bulkhead acts as the downturned elbow, saving about 2.5" inside the box. So you just have to increase the box length to account for the lack of depth. You could make it skinnier, but I also want to run my return (split locline) through it.


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## Doctor T (Apr 23, 2009)

Looks good Ameekplec. You're right, glass-holes uses some kind of baffle. What did you use to draft that?

I'm now seriously considering the glass-holes kit. I wrote it off too soon I suppose.


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## conix67 (Jul 27, 2008)

Doctor T said:


> Looks good Ameekplec. You're right, glass-holes uses some kind of baffle. What did you use to draft that?
> 
> I'm now seriously considering the glass-holes kit. I wrote it off too soon I suppose.


Probably the google sketch ?? I should try that!


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

yeah it's sketch-up. Took me a few hours to learn a few tricks, but I'm ok at it now. I did a sketch-up of the 120 I want to do too 

Yeah, that pic that you linked to on RC didn't have that baffle/hood there, but that's essentially what keeps their box so low profile.


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## Doctor T (Apr 23, 2009)

BKTruong said:


> Hey everyone thanks for the replies and sorry for my late response as I've been busy... It turns out I found some of my old equipment from my other older fish tanks in the basement that I bought and never used and I'm gonna use it for the new little set up... Thanks anyways Ameekplec and as for Conix I went to Lowes and like you said it had everything i needed, thanks alot!! again Lol Btw I took a look at your 75g set up and damn... *jealous* I had the same expression on my face as what seems to be your nephew? Lol
> 
> And as for Zebrap13co, I like being able to build things on my own. Drilling glass holes on my own would be something fun (if successful) and beneficial for any other time in the future and the more one learns on his own the more creative he/she can be with their other upcoming designs. You may "front" about bigger set ups and blah blah but bottom line is I want to do a little fun project set up for now and want to make holes and be creative and whatnot as I have all the free time in the world right now as school doesn't start again until September. Secondly, I already have 2 120 gallon tanks and 1 other 40 gallon tank so if I really cared to set up a bigger salt water project then I would have instead.
> 
> ...


The DIY aspect appeals to me too - even though I'm not handy at all, I look forward to learning. Hope to see your build thread! 



ameekplec. said:


> yeah it's sketch-up. Took me a few hours to learn a few tricks, but I'm ok at it now. I did a sketch-up of the 120 I want to do too
> 
> Yeah, that pic that you linked to on RC didn't have that baffle/hood there, but that's essentially what keeps their box so low profile.


Cool, I'm gonna have to try it so you guys can critique/laugh at my sump design.


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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

BKTruong said:


> And as for Zebrap13co, I like being able to build things on my own. Drilling glass holes on my own would be something fun (if successful) and beneficial for any other time in the future and the more one learns on his own the more creative he/she can be with their other upcoming designs. You may "front" about bigger set ups and blah blah but bottom line is I want to do a little fun project set up for now and want to make holes and be creative and whatnot as I have all the free time in the world right now as school doesn't start again until September. Secondly, I already have 2 120 gallon tanks and 1 other 40 gallon tank so if I really cared to set up a bigger salt water project then I would have instead.


OK, now I get it. Just didn't seem very ecomomical at the begining. Nice sump, how much did you get that for?

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## BKTruong (Jun 29, 2009)

Yeah I know what you mean so much work for a 20 gallon isn't necessary but its just a fun little project or stepping stone before I hit up the big tanks downstairs. I don't quite remember how much the sump was but I think they're usually about $100 or something... sorry lol

Anyway here's the latest on the small "unnecessary" project lol


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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

Out of curiosity, how would you deal with power outage? Doesn't the "outflow" dump 1/5 of the top tank back into the bottom.

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## BKTruong (Jun 29, 2009)

What are you talking about? There's no ratio to how much you need from the top to bottom of your tank its just how the overflow is designed and the extents of the piping. If you can manage to hold that then it should be fine. If there is a ratio then its just generic I guess... I'm just starting out I really don't know what I'm talking about Lol, maybe you could show me how your sump is designed?


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Zebrapl3co said:


> Out of curiosity, how would you deal with power outage? Doesn't the "outflow" dump 1/5 of the top tank back into the bottom.


It would totally depend on where the bottom of the teeth on the overflow box is - the lower they are, the more water from the DT can flow down to the sump. Typically water levels are .5 - 1" above the teeth when the returns are on, so you're really looking at less then 5% of total volume. But it also depends on how you've designed your system. If you're good you've made it so that not only can your sump handle the water after the return pump is turned on, but you've also made it so that it still has reserve capacity if more water were to somehow find it's way back into the sump.


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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

BKTruong said:


> What are you talking about? There's no ratio to how much you need from the top to bottom of your tank its just how the overflow is designed and the extents of the piping. If you can manage to hold that then it should be fine. If there is a ratio then its just generic I guess... I'm just starting out I really don't know what I'm talking about Lol, maybe you could show me how your sump is designed?


OK, look at the last picture you post. On the left side of the photo, you have a pipe going from pump in the sump to upper tank. This works fine when the power is going. When it goes out, the "outflow" will reverse flow and start sucking water from the top to the bottom just like a gravel vac. It won't stop until it suck air in to stop the syphom. Judging by the how low the "outflow" nozzle is. It's about 1/5 of the tank from the top... I think that's how much will be going to the bottom tank in a power outage.

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## conix67 (Jul 27, 2008)

Zebrapl3co said:


> OK, look at the last picture you post. On the left side of the photo, you have a pipe going from pump in the sump to upper tank. This works fine when the power is going. When it goes out, the "outflow" will reverse flow and start sucking water from the top to the bottom just like a gravel vac. It won't stop until it suck air in to stop the syphom. Judging by the how low the "outflow" nozzle is. It's about 1/5 of the tank from the top... I think that's how much will be going to the bottom tank in a power outage.


You drill a anti-siphon hole, that's all you need to avoid this back-siphon on power outage. There's a very little back flow, as the only water back flows is what's in the pipe leading up to the location of anti-siphon hole.


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## UnderTheSea (Jun 2, 2008)

conix67 said:


> You drill a anti-siphon hole, that's all you need to avoid this back-siphon on power outage. There's a very little back flow, as the only water back flows is what's in the pipe leading up to the location of anti-siphon hole.


I agree, it really depends on what your water line is above your overflow box or pipe while the system is running. When setting up to drill and put an over flow in one of the first questions I'm asked is how much flow can this pipe handle. Usually they pipe they have chosen is more than enough but I remind them to consider the overflow box as a gate as well. Most of the commercially purchased boxes will do, but if you are DIY take this into consideration. I got a call one night about a flood from a guy first setting up. He made a DIY overflow box an had the teeth spaced 1" appart and the box went to the top of the tank, sure enough when he turned on the pumps the water went right over the top. All the water must go somewhere right.


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## KnaveTO (May 13, 2007)

UnderTheSea said:


> I agree, it really depends on what your water line is above your overflow box or pipe while the system is running. When setting up to drill and put an over flow in one of the first questions I'm asked is how much flow can this pipe handle. Usually they pipe they have chosen is more than enough but I remind them to consider the overflow box as a gate as well. Most of the commercially purchased boxes will do, but if you are DIY take this into consideration. I got a call one night about a flood from a guy first setting up. He made a DIY overflow box an had the teeth spaced 1" appart and the box went to the top of the tank, sure enough when he turned on the pumps the water went right over the top. All the water must go somewhere right.


That is why DIY scares me...


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## conix67 (Jul 27, 2008)

KnaveTO said:


> That is why DIY scares me...


That is why DIY saves you money, if done right.

As for plumping, you do want to run the system with freshwater in it to verify everything, even if it's NOT DIY, to ensure everything is running as expected. If any spills occur, you'll just have to clean it up and the clean water spill isn't that big a deal compared to salt water spills.


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