# To mechanical filter or not to mechanical filter



## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

I found this opinion. Any thought on it?

"You don't have to run a mechanical filter, such as a power filter or canister filter, on your reef tank. We only run a mechanical filter, in this case a hang on power filter, when we want to run activated carbon in between water changes or if we need to use phosphate removing pads when we start noticing any sort of algae buildup anywhere in the tank.

The main idea here is that the protein skimmer will remove most of the organics once they start breaking down so you really don't need to run a canister filter or power filter. In fact, these very filters could or might contribute to nitrate problems if the filter media is not cleaned and/or replaced on a regular basis, like every two days or more frequently. "

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## conix67 (Jul 27, 2008)

It's true conventional mechanical filter becomes nitrate factory in reef tank you don't want. I believe this is already covered in nano guide on this forum and many other places.

On the other hand, protein skimmer's effectiveness is also limited.


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

conix67 said:


> It's true conventional mechanical filter becomes nitrate factory in reef tank you don't want. I believe this is already covered in nano guide on this forum and many other places.
> 
> On the other hand, protein skimmer's effectiveness is also limited.


Here is no clear information on this topic anywhere. I am reading different sources second week and can not get it. Everybody says it is good to have, but &#8230;.

When you run a sump - were is the mechanical filter (sponge) located?
In my case I am setting up 80G and have HOB refusium and HOB skimmer.
In the beginning wanted to run AC as mechanical, but it makes air bubbles and it blows on the light 
I was thinking about HOB reactor, but it is very inconvenient to clean the sponge there
Two days ago I got Eheim 2215, but now I found that I do not really need it and should clean it almost daily.
I am going crazy with this stuff.

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## conix67 (Jul 27, 2008)

sig said:


> Here is no clear information on this topic anywhere. I am reading different sources second week and can not get it. Everybody says it is good to have, but &#8230;.
> 
> When you run a sump - were is the mechanical filter (sponge) located?
> In my case I am setting up 80G and have HOB refusium and HOB skimmer.
> ...


Tell me what you want to filter out mechanically.


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## conix67 (Jul 27, 2008)

By the way, I do not have a sponge in my sump. Most people I know do not use a sponge in a sump. 

I do, however, use filter sock these days. I plan to remove it though.

In a sump, you can trap a lot of stuff in the sections divided with baffles. I siphon them out during water changes.

Going HOB will be limited in options. I suggest running filter floss only when needed. 

The micro bubbles HOB filters may generate will cause salt to accumulate in unwanted area, so watch out for those as well. 

If you're setting up 80G tank, it's probably better to have the full sump configuration under it.


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## Fish_Man (Apr 9, 2010)

I'm new to the salt world but from what I've read and my understanding of canister filters for salt tanks is just for filter floss and carbon use. Also the output of the canister to create flow in the tank?


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

conix67 said:


> Tell me what you want to filter out mechanically.


Thank you for this question. looks like this is a answer for me, that we do not really need it.

... but in my nano cube, which has some kind of refusium/tank there is sponge located next to the intake pump and this sponge always dirty 
Thanks for reply

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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

Fish_Man said:


> I'm new to the salt world but from what I've read and my understanding of canister filters for salt tanks is just for filter floss and carbon use. Also the output of the canister to create flow in the tank?


You should know that carbon produces ammonia

why you are asking about filters. I your cube you should have place for the filter floss or sponge

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## Fish_Man (Apr 9, 2010)

sig said:


> You should know that carbon produces ammonia
> 
> why you are asking about filters. I your cube you should have place for the filter floss or sponge


Had to buy some stuff to mod the cube in the back to put filter floss and purigen and chemi pure.

I still like to read about saltwater equipment and functions to better understand how the whole system works and eventually I'll change one of my other tanks to salt anyways. 

Never heard carbon produces ammonia.... 
Only thing I read about carbon is that some minerals like calcium and iodine can be absorbed which can be essential in a reef tank and some brands of carbon may leach phosphates into your tank


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## conix67 (Jul 27, 2008)

sig said:


> Thank you for this question. looks like this is a answer for me, that we do not really need it.
> 
> ... but in my nano cube, which has some kind of refusium/tank there is sponge located next to the intake pump and this sponge always dirty
> Thanks for reply


It could be trapping something, or something could be growing on it.

In my experience, a lot of things I find in filter sock are some sort of algae growing on it.

Since the mechanical filter media can get very maintenance heavy, you might want to skip it altogether. Use it only when you happened to have things you'd like to filter out, and take it out shortly after.

When I was running my nano, I had HOB running with filter floss. I did change it every 3-4 days, but it got dirty quickly. Come to think of it, I think it was actually having negative effect in my tank..


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

Thank you for good advice. Finally I am going to sleep good today

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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

Fish_Man said:


> Had to buy some stuff to mod the cube in the back to put filter floss and purigen and chemi pure.
> 
> I still like to read about saltwater equipment and functions to better understand how the whole system works and eventually I'll change one of my other tanks to salt anyways.
> 
> ...


I seen it in several places"

"In fact, these very filters could or might contribute to nitrate problems if the filter media is not cleaned and/or replaced on a regular basis, like every two days or more frequently. "

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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

While I don't disagree with any of the posts here, I do disagree with mechanical filtration, or "old school" filtration, like bio balls, being nitrate factories.

Maybe I am missing something, but if nitrate is being produced there, does that not mean that there was ammonia and nitrite for it be produced in the first place?

If you removed it, would the source of the nitrate be removed? No - so the tank is still producing the same amount of ammonia/nitrite and therefore, nitrate. Does the nitrate produced still not flow throughout the tank to be removed anyway?

I still don't understand the logic here.

I wouldn't say it is needed, but at the worst I think it is redundant.

I've also never heard of carbon producing ammonia.


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

Chris S said:


> While I don't disagree with any of the posts here, I do disagree with mechanical filtration, or "old school" filtration, like bio balls, being nitrate factories.
> 
> Maybe I am missing something, but if nitrate is being produced there, does that not mean that there was ammonia and nitrite for it be produced in the first place?
> 
> ...


Yeah, that's what I didn't get either. Either you have a mechanical filter and your crap is producing nitrate because it's stuck on the filter floss, or you don't have a mechanical filter, and your crap is still producing nitrate while floating around in your tank or sump.


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## conix67 (Jul 27, 2008)

Chris S said:


> While I don't disagree with any of the posts here, I do disagree with mechanical filtration, or "old school" filtration, like bio balls, being nitrate factories.
> 
> Maybe I am missing something, but if nitrate is being produced there, does that not mean that there was ammonia and nitrite for it be produced in the first place?
> 
> ...


While I have not had this issue with mechanical filtration (especially bio balls) generating nitrates myself, those who have I believe were monitoring these water parameters. So, after removing bioballs, nitrate is down and there's no rise in ammonia/nitrite. This could mean that mechanical filter media is source of all 3 - ie. it traps stuff/detrius that can enter nitrogen cycle, which could be consumed by clean up crews or other living organisms without the mechanical filter, causing excess nitrates in the end.


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

Chris S said:


> I've also never heard of carbon producing ammonia.


sorry for BS. i did not get proper understanding what I was reading

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## shrtmann (Feb 15, 2009)

hmm this is quite the interesting conversation. I run an AC on both my tanks w/ filter floss and carbon. I have quite the algae problem on my smaller tank but i dont have a protein skimmer on it so that could be also a contributing factor. I only clean them about oncve a week or 2. But the algae is not completely taking over its just there.
I also use them for increased water flow


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## conix67 (Jul 27, 2008)

I would recommend use of mechanical filter (filter floss, filter sock) only when there's a specific need for it, and media should be replaced/cleaned often.

Sponge or Bio Balls can turn into biological filter that could produce excessive nitrates (based on information I have gathered so far) so care should be taken if these are used.

Another reason to avoid mechanical filter is to avoid capturing/killing living organisms. Whenever I clean my filter sock, I end up killing tens of bristle stars and pods that have gathered around detrius trapped in the filter sock.


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

I found solution.

I will use a Marineland H.O.T. Magnum Filters. It is easy to maintain and I can put just Carbon or Chemi Pure, when I do not need mechanical filtration. At the same time, it will work as powerhead

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