# First Planted Tank Journal



## Byronicle

Hey All,

This is my first wack at trying to do a planted aquarium so I am a bit of a rookie and ready to take on some constructive criticism and helpful advice! 

It all started when I stumbled upon a "treescape" which actually re-ignited my love for fish keeping. I am sure many have seen the same layout. Overall it was a very fun experience!

Fish so far...

2 Kribs (male + female) and fry
1 Snowball Pleco
3 Electric Blue Rams
4 Bamboo Shrimp
1 Giant African Filter Shrimp
3 Peacock Gobies
5 Celebes Rainbowfish
1 Gold Dwarf Honey Gouramis
3 Bristlenose Plecos
4 Furcata Rainbows (2 males + 2 females)
1 Black Red tailed Shark
1 Siamese Algae Eater
5 Panda Cories 
2 Blood Male Guppies
20 Cardinal Tetras
6 Gold Mountain Minnows
7 Bumblebee Gobies
2 Ottoclinus

...have some more fish on the wait list  

Plants...
Anubias nana
HC Cuba
Dwarf Hairgrass
Dwarf Sagittaria
Red Ludiwigia
Star Grass
Rotala sp. red + green

...and some others I forgot the names to 

Equipment...

AC110
Eheim 2217
Stealth Heater
4x32 watt T8 Light fixture with 2 white bulbs (6700k) and 2 full spectrum bulbs 
2X54 watt T5 light fixture with 2 white bulbs (6700k)
Ecocomplete Gravel
Slate Rocks
One piece of driftwood I found and just boiled in a witches' cauldron  and the other piece just got as a gift

...currently do not have a CO2 system except a temporarilty DIY with the tube shoved in the Eheim canister intake tube, until I get something good.


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## AnnaZ

Lovely tank and awwwww! I love panda cories!


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## DaFishMan

I really like the look of your tank. You did a great job 

Welcome back to the hobby, it's cool your g/f is now into it too. It's something you will both enjoy together, and help each other out


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## Mr Fishies

Byronicle said:


> Plants...
> Anubias nana
> HC Cuba
> <SNIP>
> 
> ...and some others I forgot the names to


Nice layout and assortment of plants in there. Forgot the names of some huh, that's a symptom you have a mean case of "collectoritis". 

Those killies are really nice looking too.


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## Byronicle

AnnaZ said:


> Lovely tank and awwwww! I love panda cories!


thanks, and the pandas are one of my favourite



DaFishMan said:


> Welcome back to the hobby, it's cool your g/f is now into it too. It's something you will both enjoy together, and help each other out


thanks, well funny thing is my girlfriend would scold me everytime I went online to check my email or researched for fish stuff. Lol I would be on the computer and she would be "what are you doing? MOre?! Fish Things?!" but now she approves



Mr Fishies said:


> Nice layout and assortment of plants in there. Forgot the names of some huh, that's a symptom you have a mean case of "collectoritis".
> 
> Those killies are really nice looking too.


yea the plants, some I just picked them cause they looked nice lol but yea the killies i liked and they have some personality, zipping up and down for food and lazing around during the day


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## Byronicle

Today I saw the Kribs come out with a parade of Babies!!

Will take pics soon. They bigger than newborn guppy fry. Now what to feed them!?


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## bae

Congrats on the baby kribs! Now you know why the male was attacking you!

You can feed them finely powdered dry food. Just crumble it up in your fingers and swish it below the surface to make it sink. The parents will lead the kids around in a loose ball, letting them pick over every part of the tank. They'll defend the area around the fry, but your other fish should be able to stay out of the way. They'll lead the fry back into their cave for the night, so give them some 'twilight' after you turn off the lights by turning on a room light first, and leaving it on for ten minutes or so. They're fun to watch as they make sure the stragglers and more adventurous ones keep with the group. If there's danger, the female will make special motions with her pelvic fins and the group will drop. Now you know why her pelvic fins are intensely colored.

If you want some microworms, I can give you some.

Your tank looks beautiful. I was about to suggest that if you have a cave for them, the kribs will spawn, and then I saw your last post! Btw, the red tail black shark will get aggressive as he gets bigger, but he's fine for now. They are such cool looking fish, but the colors get duller as they mature.


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## Byronicle

bae said:


> Congrats on the baby kribs! Now you know why the male was attacking you!


Lol thanks, I would always stick my hand in there and before he never cared, now I wouldn't dare lol. And I have been seeing the female warn the little guys of danger which is awesome, I had my parents, cousins and friends just now watching the little guys do their parade lol. And I have a lot of caves, just very well hidden and disguised  what I like to do is buy a tube, shove it in the gravel and conceal it with plants and rocks.

What I plan to do is to cut a tube in half, and stick it in the side so that I could actually see what is going on in their homes


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## jimmyjam

hey bud, looking solid man, did the lights come in yet? BAA def has a good suggestion with the caves, and since you like it aquascapes, you can attach some moss to half a coconut shell and maybe top it off with a lil java fern and stick it half in the sand... looks real cool. Anyhoot, hope to see some more pics.


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## BaRoK

Good luck dude!

I noticed lately that my pair of kribs are very agressive to the other fishes when they come near one of the caves. I also noticed that the male and female take turns going in and out the the cave. Perhaps they're are eggs in cave?

Haven't seen any fry yet but I'm tempted to flash my maglight on those caves.

Getting excited.


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## Byronicle

jimmyjam said:


> hey bud, looking solid man, did the lights come in yet? BAA def has a good suggestion with the caves, and since you like it aquascapes, you can attach some moss to half a coconut shell and maybe top it off with a lil java fern and stick it half in the sand... looks real cool. Anyhoot, hope to see some more pics.


thanks jimmy, funny, i was looking at coconuts today actually 



BaRoK said:


> Good luck dude!
> 
> I noticed lately that my pair of kribs are very agressive to the other fishes when they come near one of the caves. I also noticed that the male and female take turns going in and out the the cave. Perhaps they're are eggs in cave?
> 
> Haven't seen any fry yet but I'm tempted to flash my maglight on those caves.
> 
> Getting excited.


yea you must have fry, that is exactly what happened with my kribs, the female likes to stay in more the "house" and the male will guard the territory around the house. Notice this behaviour for maybe 2 weeks before the babies came out


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## Byronicle

*More Pics*

Still got the fry and parents pictures in my camera, haven't had the time to upload yet onto photbucket but planning to later on.

But what I did notice is that I had maybe 80 babies and its down to 30ish!? I guess the stragglers and adventurers didn't make it...natural selection picking only the smart ones i guess


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## jewel-stavroula

What an endearing tank! I especially love the Furcata rainbows!


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## Byronicle

Finally some pics of the Kribs and their fry, along with some pics I like and wanted to share and some new comers


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## Byronicle

jewel-stavroula said:


> What an endearing tank! I especially love the Furcata rainbows!


thanks, they too are one of my fav, i love how they just seem to zip and zoot everywhere


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## DaFishMan

Congrats on the hatch 

Love the fry pics, pretty large for babies wow. Bionic kribs ?


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## Byronicle

DaFishMan said:


> Congrats on the hatch
> 
> Love the fry pics, pretty large for babies wow. Bionic kribs ?


Thanks,

lol well i first noticed the fry wednesday, they must be a week old! and there use to be 100, but now down to 30 so I assume these guys are the strongest. I am also feeding them grounded up boiled mussels, so maybe the protein is giving them a boost because I heard that live foods can speed up growth


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## Byronicle

updated stock list (1st post) and will put up pics soon!

but got some casualties...the fish showed signs of ammonia toxicity but tested the water and it was perfect, bought another kit for a second opinion and its all good...so cause of death is unknown...

List of Casualties 
2 killifish
2 blue rams


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## Darkside

You might want to add a couple more SAEs, they do much better in a group. I love them, they're personal favourites of mine.


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## Byronicle

Darkside said:


> You might want to add a couple more SAEs, they do much better in a group. I love them, they're personal favourites of mine.


I heard they can become quite territorial when they mature, but if they are in a group and by doing better do you mean they are happier or they will actually eat the algae!!


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## Darkside

Byronicle said:


> I heard they can become quite territorial when they mature, but if they are in a group and by doing better do you mean they are happier or they will actually eat the algae!!


Mine ignore everything but the smallest of shellie fry. They're not territorial, they are constantly eating algae and they like to school, I think they're happier in a group. They should never be territorial, if they are, then the chances are high that you have the wrong fish! Pictures?


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## Byronicle

Darkside said:


> Mine ignore everything but the smallest of shellie fry. They're not territorial, they are constantly eating algae and they like to school, I think they're happier in a group. They should never be territorial, if they are, then the chances are high that you have the wrong fish! Pictures?


interesting, i have 2 more which i will add now. however the ones i have are about 2.5-3 inches long, what about yours?

i just googled and they look the same, they are definitely not chinese algae eaters

this is also not my pic but they look identical


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## Darkside

Byronicle said:


> interesting, i have 2 more which i will add now. however the ones i have are about 2.5-3 inches long, what about yours?
> 
> i just googled and they look the same, they are definitely not chinese algae eaters
> 
> this is also not my pic but they look identical


Mine are probably about 5" long, I've had them for about 3 years now. The ones pictured look like true SAEs. The tell tale sign is that the black line extends through the caudal fin.


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## Byronicle

Darkside said:


> Mine are probably about 5" long, I've had them for about 3 years now. The ones pictured look like true SAEs. The tell tale sign is that the black line extends through the caudal fin.


yea they are definitely the same...do you think they eat hair algae?


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## Darkside

Byronicle said:


> yea they are definitely the same...do you think they eat hair algae?


Mine eat hair algae, I don't know why yours wouldn't.


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## Byronicle

Darkside said:


> Mine eat hair algae, I don't know why yours wouldn't.


mine is just a lazy butt. oh well hopefully my other two are hard workers.

but on another note, i had another casualty! my favourite fish, red tail black shark died. How? I found it on the ground stiff and dry, must've jumped out even though there is only a little opening for my filter tubes and my HOB ! oh well


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## Byronicle

Ok so I have been reading that hair algae doesn't like currents very much and right now my hair algae has just grown on my taiwan moss, which everytime I manually remove it, I am pulling a bit of moss as well...

And the hair algae is growing on only one side of the tank! the rest is fine...so what I did was I moved the output flow from my eheim onto the side with the hair algae to create a current, after a few minutes, I found a few dislodge algae without tampering with the moss!

just thought I share


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## DaFishMan

Sorry to learn of your fish loss 

Water current with no dead spots helps prevent algae, helps rid of existing algae, and better moves nutrients to the plants. Many will add a powerhead to do what you just did with your existing filter. Good solution 

Did you just recently add the moss ?

Last weekend I recently swapped my filters to larger ones for more flow. One filter took the place of two smaller ones, and I would have still needed a powerhead. Now can use it for co2 diffuser. 

I've read of sae's decimating moss by eating the fronds. I'm curious as to your or DB's experiences on that. I'd like to add sae's again sometime but probably will have moss in there so a bit nervous.


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## Darkside

DaFishMan said:


> Sorry to learn of your fish loss
> 
> Water current with no dead spots helps prevent algae, helps rid of existing algae, and better moves nutrients to the plants. Many will add a powerhead to do what you just did with your existing filter. Good solution
> 
> Did you just recently add the moss ?
> 
> Last weekend I recently swapped my filters to larger ones for more flow. One filter took the place of two smaller ones, and I would have still needed a powerhead. Now can use it for co2 diffuser.
> 
> I've read of sae's decimating moss by eating the fronds. I'm curious as to your or DB's experiences on that. I'd like to add sae's again sometime but probably will have moss in there so a bit nervous.


I wish they picked on my moss, as it is I've throwing about a pound of it out once per month and this is only in a 35 gallon long aquarium. I'll post a picture of some SAEs I have frolicking in Taiwan moss.


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## Byronicle

Darkside said:


> Mine eat hair algae, I don't know why yours wouldn't.


ok well it seemed maybe SAE are observing feeders, before he schooled with tetras and he would only eat fish food, now with the other 2 SAEs, they are actually eating the algae! 



DaFishMan said:


> Did you just recently add the moss ?
> 
> I've read of sae's decimating moss by eating the fronds. I'm curious as to your or DB's experiences on that. I'd like to add sae's again sometime but probably will have moss in there so a bit nervous.


i had the moss in for awhile, i'll update with pictures, it grew a lot so I assume the SAEs are fine with the moss


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## Darkside

Byronicle said:


> ok well it seemed maybe SAE are observing feeders, before he schooled with tetras and he would only eat fish food, now with the other 2 SAEs, they are actually eating the algae!
> 
> i had the moss in for awhile, i'll update with pictures, it grew a lot so I assume the SAEs are fine with the moss


I think they get spooked without others of their kind. I think they're a really great fish.


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## Mr Fishies

Byronicle said:


> And the hair algae is growing on only one side of the tank! the rest is fine...so what I did was I moved the output flow from my eheim onto the side with the hair algae to create a current, after a few minutes, I found a few dislodge algae without tampering with the moss!


If you want whole tank current, arrange it so the spray bar of your Ehiem is parallel to one of the 18" sides, front to back. The output traveling "sideways" will do a very good job of starting a circular current throughout the whole tank, across the top, down the side and across the bottom back up to the spray bar. I have a 75G, with a 2217 and I have a good current running this way for me at least.

Position your HOB so it returns down the middle of the tank, it looks like you had it this way in your first posts, there shouldn't be any major dead spots with that arrangement.


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## Byronicle

Mr Fishies said:


> If you want whole tank current, arrange it so the spray bar of your Ehiem is parallel to one of the 18" sides, front to back. The output traveling "sideways" will do a very good job of starting a circular current throughout the whole tank, across the top, down the side and across the bottom back up to the spray bar. I have a 75G, with a 2217 and I have a good current running this way for me at least.
> 
> Position your HOB so it returns down the middle of the tank, it looks like you had it this way in your first posts, there shouldn't be any major dead spots with that arrangement.


yea I was thinking of that but then I started thinking it might mess up the current my AC110 is creating, on one side of the 24" i have the eheim and on the other side i got the AC110 on the other 24'' half

but on another note I am wondering why some of my new fish die after being healthy and active for a couple of days, one or two individuals would go to the surface and "gasp" even though ammonia and nitrite are at zero and nitrate is at 5-10 ppm, And I have way too many plants now which rules out the idea that there may be not enough oxygen...why! Oh why do they die just so randomly?!?


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## Darkside

Byronicle said:


> yea I was thinking of that but then I started thinking it might mess up the current my AC110 is creating, on one side of the 24" i have the eheim and on the other side i got the AC110 on the other 24'' half
> 
> but on another note I am wondering why some of my new fish die after being healthy and active for a couple of days, one or two individuals would go to the surface and "gasp" even though ammonia and nitrite are at zero and nitrate is at 5-10 ppm, And I have way too many plants now which rules out the idea that there may be not enough oxygen...why! Oh why do they die just so randomly?!?


Which fish are doing so? What's your temp at?


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## Byronicle

Darkside said:


> Which fish are doing so? What's your temp at?


my electric rams! the temp is 20 degrees right now, i have no idea why it is low though when i have my stealth heater set to 75 and the water feels fine


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## Byronicle

yea I put in another thermometer and it reads 24 degrees Celsius


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## Darkside

Byronicle said:


> my electric rams! the temp is 20 degrees right now, i have no idea why it is low though when i have my stealth heater set to 75 and the water feels fine


Rams are a finicky fish, they prefer temperatures above 80 degrees. The biggest problem with rams is that some of the line bred and mass produced varieties are pretty sickly. If you want rams at a lower temperature you're better off with Bolivian rams.


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## Byronicle

Darkside said:


> Rams are a finicky fish, they prefer temperatures above 80 degrees. The biggest problem with rams is that some of the line bred and mass produced varieties are pretty sickly. If you want rams at a lower temperature you're better off with Bolivian rams.


yea you are absolute right, i remember now reading reasons to now keep Rams!! and to opt for bolivians, damn...well i turned it up and hoping things go good.

thanks, that was really helpful


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## DaFishMan

I had a gb ram hatch in 78F. However, my rams never seemed to last for longer then a year, maybe for the reason DB suggests. My nitrates were also high and they're sensitive to those too.


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## Byronicle

new pics of updated AQUARIUM with an explosion of growth (no CO2 injecting ) plus new residents to the tank 

thinking of adding a powerhead to increase water circulation, I just feel like there isn't enough


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## Byronicle

also some pics of blue shrimp, a bamboo plant in my HOB AC110 filter lol  

and not sure if you guys can see but i have a pretty huge hair thread algae problem on my driftwood which is blocking out my taiwan moss  but I am just going to blackout my tank for 72 hours, only turning it on to feed the fish

*there are pictures in the post prior to this one *


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## bae

Beautiful tank. The plants have grown in really well. Hope you can get the algae under control. One trick to use a wooden stick with a rough surface -- you can catch some filaments on it and roll up the whole mass around the stick, pulling off a fair bit at a time.


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## Byronicle

bae said:


> Beautiful tank. The plants have grown in really well. Hope you can get the algae under control. One trick to use a wooden stick with a rough surface -- you can catch some filaments on it and roll up the whole mass around the stick, pulling off a fair bit at a time.


thanks, I actually tried with a toothbrush with a mix success  but whatever, had a problem like this before in my last tank, just need to be patient lol


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## Darkside

DaFishMan said:


> I had a gb ram hatch in 78F. However, my rams never seemed to last for longer then a year, maybe for the reason DB suggests. My nitrates were also high and they're sensitive to those too.


Who is DB? lol


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## Byronicle

Darkside said:


> Who is DB? lol


i believe its Dark48Blade lol

also 18 hours blackout, 54 more hours to go


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## Darkside

Byronicle said:


> i believe its Dark48Blade lol
> 
> also 18 hours blackout, 54 more hours to go


My 75 Gallon used to have hair algae like yours, but the 4 BN plecos and 4 SAEs wiped it out in a week's time.


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## Byronicle

Darkside said:


> My 75 Gallon used to have hair algae like yours, but the 4 BN plecos and 4 SAEs wiped it out in a week's time.


really? what the hell, i have 3 SAEs, 3 BN plecos, a Snowball pleco, 2 Ottos, 2 Butterfly Loaches/Borneo Suckers...and I still have this problem! which is why I am blacking out my tank


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## Darkside

How large are your plecos? The difference was night and day for me, the hair algae completely disappeared in about 10 days, excluding where the cichlids prevented in algae eaters from going. The SAEs will do their job, you could have tried starving them for a week before doing the blackout. But now that you've blacked the tank out make sure everyone's getting enough oxygen.


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## Byronicle

Darkside said:


> How large are your plecos? The difference was night and day for me, the hair algae completely disappeared in about 10 days, excluding where the cichlids prevented in algae eaters from going. The SAEs will do their job, you could have tried starving them for a week before doing the blackout. But now that you've blacked the tank out make sure everyone's getting enough oxygen.


yea I was afraid of that but I'm afraid I may starve my fish to death like my tetras and rainbows


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## jimmyjam

check your phosphate levels and nitrate levels.. whats ur co2 at ? have u tried doseing some excel.. just dont get it on the taiwan, it will kill it. Get a syringe and pump it directly on the hair alage, and it kill it within a few hours.. it wont harm the rest of the plants..


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## Byronicle

jimmyjam said:


> check your phosphate levels and nitrate levels.. whats ur co2 at ? have u tried doseing some excel.. just dont get it on the taiwan, it will kill it. Get a syringe and pump it directly on the hair alage, and it kill it within a few hours.. it wont harm the rest of the plants..


yea I am thinking maybe it has something to do with Phosphate, I don't have a kit for that yet but what I have stopped was ferts as they contain Iron and Phosphate and I stopped feeding to once a day rather than twice.

I would try excel but the hair algae is on the taiwan only, nothing else 

Another thing was I told my parents and apparently, because I am in school all day, they would feed the fish just for fun totalling to like 4-5 feedings a DAY?! and usually I turn on my tank when I get home from school so it gets 8-10 hours, but they been turning it on because they would think I forgot or something, so it was on for like 16 hours/day!!

Basically what I am going to do is limit the time to just 5-6 hours, manually remove algae, put a stronger current, no ferts with phosphate or iron and feed once a day, as well as lock my room before i go


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## Byronicle

got some wild guppies as well from my work, they kinda look like endlers 

not my picture but some of the males look like that, really nice looking guys. Going to try and breed a bunch


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## Darkside

Byronicle said:


> got some wild guppies as well from my work, they kinda look like endlers
> 
> not my picture but some of the males look like that, really nice looking guys. Going to try and breed a bunch


Are you putting them in the same tank as your endlers? They're notorious for cross breeding.


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## Byronicle

Darkside said:


> Are you putting them in the same tank as your endlers? They're notorious for cross breeding.


well no, i kinda want to keep the strain pure but it be cool to see an endller with nice orange and green colouration mix with a wild guppy that's father is bllue and purple and see what you get.

when i was 13 i use to breed guppies experimentally, always trying to make something unique, so once i get a particular strain i want, i will attempt to cross breed some with endlers to see if i get something awesome.

another thing, these are not your typical feeder guppies, these are the same ones from the pic i posted. I am a UofT student where I work with a professor and take care of these guppies wild caught from trinidad, and they do tons of experiments with genetics and behaviour and what not. I am the only one with actual fish keeping experience so I look overall the maintenance of all the fish tanks (about a 100!) lol its like i have my own fish store except with wild guppies from different rivers.

they also see what particular guppies predators like Killifish particularly favour, i.e. the most colourful ones


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## NuclearTech

Byronicle, that is an awesome gig you've got. I'm jealous.


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## DaFishMan

That's a cool looking guppy, can you post more pics of your stock ?


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## Mr Fishies

Byronicle said:


> Basically what I am going to do is limit the time to just 5-6 hours, manually remove algae, put a stronger current, no ferts with phosphate or iron and feed once a day, as well as lock my room before i go


You can put a glass of water in the window and algae will grow with no food.
Put an aquatic plant in a glass of water in the window and it will starve and die.

If you have a planted tank, you have to feed the plants. No ferts will not fix algae. It will hurt your plants...which then suffer, drop leaves, decay and feed algae. You have a lot of light, 128w of T8 and 108w of T5. With that kind of light, your plants will go pedal to the metal and quickly photosynthesize all available nutrient and CO2 present in a matter of hours leaving the water devoid of enough nutrient to do anything other than grow algae for the rest of the day, like the glass of water in the window.

If I were you, I'd keep feeding your plants, run 2x54w of light, do frequent large water changes (25-50%) when you clean up algae.
Remember, with a planted tank, you are trying to grow plants not fight algae. I bet your plants are starving.


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## Byronicle

NuclearTech said:


> Byronicle, that is an awesome gig you've got. I'm jealous.


thanks lol, it was really simple, just think basic!



DaFishMan said:


> That's a cool looking guppy, can you post more pics of your stock ?


lol sunday for sure 



Mr Fishies said:


> You can put a glass of water in the window and algae will grow with no food.
> Put an aquatic plant in a glass of water in the window and it will starve and die.
> 
> If you have a planted tank, you have to feed the plants. No ferts will not fix algae. It will hurt your plants...which then suffer, drop leaves, decay and feed algae. You have a lot of light, 128w of T8 and 108w of T5. With that kind of light, your plants will go pedal to the metal and quickly photosynthesize all available nutrient and CO2 present in a matter of hours leaving the water devoid of enough nutrient to do anything other than grow algae for the rest of the day, like the glass of water in the window.
> 
> If I were you, I'd keep feeding your plants, run 2x54w of light, do frequent large water changes (25-50%) when you clean up algae.
> Remember, with a planted tank, you are trying to grow plants not fight algae. I bet your plants are starving.


thanks for the advice but the thing is even with the algae, my plants are growing pretty good, i have to clip about 6 cm of each stem every week, which i then replant in my tank, but i was reading up on how starving plants can be overrun by algae.

i actually cut off my CO2, would you suggest to plug it back in? the reason why i did because i was afraid i might suffocate my fish since most of the time the lights are turned off


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## Mr Fishies

Byronicle said:


> i actually cut off my CO2, would you suggest to plug it back in? the reason why i did because i was afraid i might suffocate my fish since most of the time the lights are turned off


With a DIY CO2 setup running in a 75G, I don't think you'd ever create enough to gas your fish. (Unless run a few pounds of sugar and yeast in a big sealed drum!).

CO2 is an essential element/nutrient that is needed by plants, just like NPK and trace elements/metals (ie: Fe, Mg, Cu, etc)- that is not a new idea, I trust you know that so I won't take that further.

Look at nutrients as a whole. IMO (and a lot of other folks') nutrients are _THE_ factor in determining if you can run a high light/low light tank. When you have a lot of light, your plants will quickly use up all available CO2 and nutrients in the water then they're forced to use different mechanisms to obtain carbon and nutrient unless they're kept at a steady, non-limiting level by addition of ferts and CO2.

It's switching back and forth between carbon and nitrogen sources that plants don't do so well, compared to algae. Algae, a more simple organism, on the other hand is able to more quickly adapt to use whatever nutrient is available even in the smallest of concentrations. Plants prefer a stable set of conditions for growing with constantly available CO2, NPK etc, not adding them regularly as they are used up leads to instability.

Plants are like us sort of, you can't eat 14,000 calories on Monday and skip meals until next week, you need nutrition in regular doses too!

Alternately, if you really don't want to add ferts or CO2, you need to consider turning down the light. You're better of with a well (or even underfed) low light tank than an underfed higher light tank.

I predict your algae will keep getting worse over time unless you feed your plants enough. I set up a 75G about 2 years ago, fought with no CO2, low amounts of fertilizer and even with 96W of CF lighting I had better luck with algae than plants after the first month or so. As I've been ranting about in another thread, despite product hype, neither Eco complete (nor any other substrate) is a complete 1 step formula for healthy plants.


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## Byronicle

Mr Fishies said:


> With a DIY CO2 setup running in a 75G, I don't think you'd ever create enough to gas your fish. (Unless run a few pounds of sugar and yeast in a big sealed drum!).
> 
> CO2 is an essential element/nutrient that is needed by plants, just like NPK and trace elements/metals (ie: Fe, Mg, Cu, etc)- that is not a new idea, I trust you know that so I won't take that further.
> 
> Look at nutrients as a whole. IMO (and a lot of other folks') nutrients are _THE_ factor in determining if you can run a high light/low light tank. When you have a lot of light, your plants will quickly use up all available CO2 and nutrients in the water then they're forced to use different mechanisms to obtain carbon and nutrient unless they're kept at a steady, non-limiting level by addition of ferts and CO2.
> 
> It's switching back and forth between carbon and nitrogen sources that plants don't do so well, compared to algae. Algae, a more simple organism, on the other hand is able to more quickly adapt to use whatever nutrient is available even in the smallest of concentrations. Plants prefer a stable set of conditions for growing with constantly available CO2, NPK etc, not adding them regularly as they are used up leads to instability.
> 
> Plants are like us sort of, you can't eat 14,000 calories on Monday and skip meals until next week, you need nutrition in regular doses too!
> 
> Alternately, if you really don't want to add ferts or CO2, you need to consider turning down the light. You're better of with a well (or even underfed) low light tank than an underfed higher light tank.
> 
> I predict your algae will keep getting worse over time unless you feed your plants enough. I set up a 75G about 2 years ago, fought with no CO2, low amounts of fertilizer and even with 96W of CF lighting I had better luck with algae than plants after the first month or so. As I've been ranting about in another thread, despite product hype, neither Eco complete (nor any other substrate) is a complete 1 step formula for healthy plants.


thanks, that totally makes sense. Lol I would tell my friends that I would make up for my lack of sleep by dozing off long time on weekends, which never works lol but yea I'm going to definitely start fertilizing again.

But like I said, the plants seem fine (clipping once a week), its just that there is algae on top of my taiwan moss, and only the moss, and i can't get my "tree" to develop until this algae menace is under control!

I am in the process of getting a pressurized system eventually, but thanks for the advice, this is why I made this thread because I wanted to learn from mistakes through the knowledge and experience of others


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## DaFishMan

Check my c02 thread, Mr Fishies and Darkblade sharing much helpful info.

Yes co2 is important and thru my experience even diy c02, inconsistent as it is, is better then none. It helped boost plant health and growth significantly even in a 1wpg tank I had when people said it would make no diff in low light. The plant growth was enough to outcompete the algae for avail nutrients. I'm getting diy going in the 40g until I get my pressurized for the 75.


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## Byronicle

DaFishMan said:


> Check my c02 thread, Mr Fishies and Darkblade sharing much helpful info.
> 
> Yes co2 is important and thru my experience even diy c02, inconsistent as it is, is better then none. It helped boost plant health and growth significantly even in a 1wpg tank I had when people said it would make no diff in low light. The plant growth was enough to outcompete the algae for avail nutrients. I'm getting diy going in the 40g until I get my pressurized for the 75.


read it, and learned a lot. I just really don't want to commit to anything and dish out the mullah unless my plants are dropping leaves and dying, which it is totally not right now, i understand that CO2 helps, but i mean i am clipping 6cm off each stem once a week which is pretty good, then replanting it so they get all the nutrients and not the algae. i will add ferts because obviously Co2 and nitrates is all they will get from the fish, and that plants also need a varied diet as well, i got 3 different ferts for that  which were all given to be with the purchase of other things 

even though i had 4X32 bulbs, that was for the first week, i actually had 2 fixtures each with 2x32 bulbs and i just removed one of them. also read up on a Practical fishkeeping that a lot of phosphate can be found in dried goods such especially in flakes, and hair algae is a sign of too much phosphate.

on a good note though, the algae is under control, lots of clumps being found, especially in my filter impeller  but at least its starting to die off, perhaps the starving SAE's combined with less waste, less light as well as giving the plants ferts is doing the trick. I am just not really convince with Co2 yet, i have another aquarium which i will post up pics one day, full of lush plants, but no Co2. I am not trying to say Co2 injection is not good or anything bad about it, lol i am a Bio student after all, i just feel like in most setups it is very good, and in mine for some reason it is not necessary, it would make it better but i am pretty happy with the amount of plants i have currently, i don't want too much because then it really doesn't look like the "jungle by the river" theme, i am trying to find a balance between simplicity and making it look nice.

thanks for all the advice though, this is what i love about the forum, i don't have to research things anymore, use to take me hours now just learning off of vets


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## KRS

Your tank is awesome!!!!!

I like your fish selection and your tank layout. no co2 injection wow!!!
Where did you obtain your fish selection Big Al's,PJ's or a breeder ? I am now looking for fish for my tank

Thanks
KRS


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## Byronicle

KRS said:


> Your tank is awesome!!!!!
> 
> I like your fish selection and your tank layout. no co2 injection wow!!!
> Where did you obtain your fish selection Big Al's,PJ's or a breeder ? I am now looking for fish for my tank
> 
> Thanks
> KRS


hey, normally I get my stuff at Lucky's Aquarium on Kennedy and Steeles, Frank's Aquarium on Hwy 7 and Kennedy, and when I am downtown, Menagerie on Parliament. Big Als is pretty pricey, you'll find better quality fish at these pet stores for sure.


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## Byronicle

i am also going to update soon this sunday


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## Byronicle

Update a month after. Need to start clipping the plants very soon lol, a little overrun here. Also added some red plants and pink just for more colour since it is "too green".


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## NuclearTech

So inspiring! The open space in the centre is almost like a focal point of the tank to my eye. It's a great example of how negative space can be so important, IMO. Beautiful.


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## bae

Your tank is really developing beautifully. Even that filamentous algae looks great in its place. I agree about the negative space. It's like a path leading into a tropical forest.

I'm glad you've got enough panda corys to let them show their social behaviour. They're so much more interesting (and probably happier) in groups like that.


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## Byronicle

NuclearTech said:


> So inspiring! The open space in the centre is almost like a focal point of the tank to my eye. It's a great example of how negative space can be so important, IMO. Beautiful.





bae said:


> Your tank is really developing beautifully. Even that filamentous algae looks great in its place. I agree about the negative space. It's like a path leading into a tropical forest.
> 
> I'm glad you've got enough panda corys to let them show their social behaviour. They're so much more interesting (and probably happier) in groups like that.


thanks for the comments 

yea that is the focal point in my opinion. What I like to see is how some fish will hesitate before "crossing" to the other side which is really really neat, and it also provides a no man's land to my territorial apistos lol

and that algae is something i don't mind, however i am going to be injecting CO2 as soon as my stuff gets delivered! so that hopefully my plants will be out competing this algae which is nice looking, I just don't prefer it


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## NuclearTech

Byronicle said:


> and that algae is something i don't mind, however i am going to be injecting CO2 as soon as my stuff gets delivered! so that hopefully my plants will be out competing this algae which is nice looking, I just don't prefer it


Mind if I ask where you ordered your CO2 stuff? I'm still in the research phase.


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## Byronicle

NuclearTech said:


> Mind if I ask where you ordered your CO2 stuff? I'm still in the research phase.


well actually I just kept searching Co2 on kijiji and I found a great deal for a 20 lb tank and Regulator off a guy for $75. Then on EBAY i ordered the solenoid, needle valve and I am making a DIY pvc inline reactor. I am getting a drop checker from DarkBlade sometime in the future and I read DarkBlade48 Thread about PRessurized Co2, he recommends a lot of brands to choose from. I recommend you check out that thread in the Equipment Section.


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## NuclearTech

Yep Yep, I've definitely been through that thread. I just haven't got to the 'buying' part yet.  
Thanks.


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## kaegunim

I like the lush layout! Looks very natural~

I am looking forward to seeing what the tank will look like trimmed


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## Darkblade48

Byronicle said:


> well actually I just kept searching Co2 on kijiji and I found a great deal for a 20 lb tank and Regulator off a guy for $75.


Nice. How much was the 20 lb tank (hopefully it was hydrotested!) Also, what kind of regulator did you get?



Byronicle said:


> I am getting a drop checker from DarkBlade sometime in the future and I read DarkBlade48 Thread about PRessurized Co2, he recommends a lot of brands to choose from. I recommend you check out that thread in the Equipment Section.


I'll let you know when I'm back in Scarborough, and I'll hook you up with the drop checker.



NuclearTech said:


> Yep Yep, I've definitely been through that thread. I just haven't got to the 'buying' part yet.
> Thanks.


Feel free to post away if you have questions


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## Byronicle

bae said:


> I'm glad you've got enough panda corys to let them show their social behaviour. They're so much more interesting (and probably happier) in groups like that.


yea i actually have 7 in there, its really neat watching them school or go on a feeding frenzy for sinking wafers lol, but yea definitely if people plan to get cories, you gotta school them to see their social behaviour



kaegunim said:


> I like the lush layout! Looks very natural~
> 
> I am looking forward to seeing what the tank will look like trimmed


thanks, i am not looking forward to it at all LOL but my house that was in there got swallowed up by the jungle



Darkblade48 said:


> Nice. How much was the 20 lb tank (hopefully it was hydrotested!) Also, what kind of regulator did you get?
> 
> I'll let you know when I'm back in Scarborough, and I'll hook you up with the drop checker.


Hey Anthony, the 20lb tank + a working cornelius regulator was $75 in total which to me was a steal. The tank was last filled at Norwood so I plan to give them a call sometime this week to ask them whether the tank was filled recently and I just emailed the guy and asked him when he filled it up, if it was recently then I assume it was hydrotested *crossing fingers*

But yea thanks for the drop checker though, will be looking forward to using it


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## Darkblade48

Byronicle said:


> Hey Anthony, the 20lb tank + a working cornelius regulator was $75 in total which to me was a steal. The tank was last filled at Norwood so I plan to give them a call sometime this week to ask them whether the tank was filled recently and I just emailed the guy and asked him when he filled it up, if it was recently then I assume it was hydrotested *crossing fingers*
> 
> But yea thanks for the drop checker though, will be looking forward to using it


Great deal!

Usually, they won't fill the tank up if it's close to, or past the hydro test date.


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## davec

*Very Beautiful tank*

Beautiful tank Byronicle!

Was wondering if the Killifish got along with your Rams and Cardinals. Was thinking about buying a pair for my tank but I've heard that they can be aggressive and should be given a tank of their own.

What are your thoughts. My tank is only 26 gallon so not nearly as spacious as yours.


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## Byronicle

davec said:


> Beautiful tank Byronicle!
> 
> Was wondering if the Killifish got along with your Rams and Cardinals. Was thinking about buying a pair for my tank but I've heard that they can be aggressive and should be given a tank of their own.
> 
> What are your thoughts. My tank is only 26 gallon so not nearly as spacious as yours.


hey well, i had to remove the Rams not because they were aggressive or anything, but a killifish can have a maximum temperature of 75 F and a ram wants something in the range of 82 F...but get the aphysemion australe species, they are community friendly . If you live in Markham, check out Frank's aquarium, he specializes in a lot of fish and one being killifish and he can tell you all you need to know about them


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## AnnaZ

Nice algae you got there. Looks contained and controlled, but I think it suits the tank nicely


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## shrtmann

beautiful tank there. Definately looking like quite the jungle...and i must say the open path realy does create a nice scene....

What is the name of that purple plant in the right hand side? love the look of it. My plant are pretty much all just green and im slowly trying to add some colour variety to it.


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## Byronicle

shrtmann said:


> beautiful tank there. Definately looking like quite the jungle...and i must say the open path realy does create a nice scene....
> 
> What is the name of that purple plant in the right hand side? love the look of it. My plant are pretty much all just green and im slowly trying to add some colour variety to it.


its actually pink, the camera makes it look purple, although i do wish it was purple

it is hygrophilia Rosa nervis


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## Byronicle

Tank #1 - ~3months ago
Tank #2 - ~ Present


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## killer007

very beautiful...
jungle hahahaha
nice nice


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## Byronicle

killer007 said:


> very beautiful...
> jungle hahahaha
> nice nice


yea, sometimes I won't see a fish for weeks, and I put ghost shrimp in there and named him Waldo so people can play "Find Waldo"


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## Byronicle

This is a updated pic of my tank. Its a mess I know lol

About a year and a half old


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## tranceaddict

sweet tank, but time for a trim no? hahah


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## archgop

wow the plants are growing like crazy! How do u fertilize your tank?


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## Byronicle

tranceaddict said:


> sweet tank, but time for a trim no? hahah


yes it does, right after exams it is going to get a 70% trim, rescape...the works!



archgop said:


> wow the plants are growing like crazy! How do u fertilize your tank?


yes they do lol. well to be honest i only have an eheim 2217 running for my inline CO2 reactor, so the lack of filtration allows ammonia/nitrates to build up and to be taken in by the plants instead, still do a monthly water change though

i dose with dry fertilizers i get at the local hydroponics store, macros, micros and trace elements. relatively cheap especially whne $40 worth of ferts will last me a year or two.


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## tranceaddict

i would love some trimming/cutting, if yea feeling generous. moss especially


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## Byronicle

tranceaddict said:


> i would love some trimming/cutting, if yea feeling generous. moss especially


The trimmings are actually on hold for someone who offered earlier


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## tranceaddict

fair enough.


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## Canadianbettas

any current updates on this tank? would be interested to see how it looks now


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## iBetta

did you get your ferts from the hydrotech hydroponics perhaps?


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