# LTP Sulawesi Setup



## LTPGuy

To begin with, I woulld like to thank BigDaddyO for inspiring me with his setup, and answering my questions on his own Sulawesi thread.

A picture is worth a 10,000 words so here is the home I am preparing for the coveted Cardinal Shrimps...




























After reading the details on the Sulawesi Expedition from Planet-I, various internet postings, and taken many suggestions to heart, I have decided on the following setup which incorporate a lot of BigDaddyO ideas. I welcome any and all comments.

SETUP:
Tank: 11"x11"x11" (homemade from old window glass)

Filter: Hamburg-Matten using scrubpad as media with total volume = 8"x6"x1/4"

Water: Distilled + SaltyShrimp Sulawesi Mineral 8.5 mixed.

Temperature: 27 C

pH: 8.5

KH: 6 dKH

GH: 8 dGH

TDS: TBD (need to buy meter)

Substrate: Fine white sands

Aquascape: Rock mound, Vallisnera, a single Luwigia Repen*, some mini water lettuces and large duckweeds.

MAINTENANCE:

WC: 10% every two months

Top-Off: Auto top off with RO.

Vacumm: Weekly flushing out the rock scape + filter.

Feeding: Alternate between frozen organic spinach, Hikari Algae Wafer, Crushed Snails every 3 days.

CONSIDERATIONS:
Crush Coral - I have decided against crush coral as a substrate base on comments that it's a nitrate trap. However, I am looking for coral skeleton. I'll discuss the matter of crush coral and buffering in the another post below.

Luwidgia Repen - I love this plant, and the colour suits the white substrate and the grey rock wall. I have a feeling that it won't last in this tank but let's see.

I will update this post as changes are made so that the setup reflects my current configuration.


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## Bigdaddyo

I only see one picture, the top one. The other three are red X's.


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## xriddler

same i dont see any pictures


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## Bigdaddyo

Your post is in bold my comments are in dark red


LTPGuy;314802
After reading the details on the Sulawesi Expedition from Planet-I said:


> *Temperature: Room (24-25 C)
> 
> pH: 6.2 (because of the co2..I hope. It's suppose to be 8.5)*[/B]
> I have read numberous posts and threads from other hobbiest regarding their setups and water parameters. A couple of things that are fairly consistant are, temperature and Ph. The consences is above 80F and Ph above 8. I did read one keeper journal were he believed that the water needed to be alkaline and that it wasn't important that it was 8 or 8.5 and he had his is 7.6 Ph. Your Ph needs to be addressed. I don't know how much more Co2 will help the minerals to disolve, I found the salts mixed easily.
> *KH: 6 dKH
> 
> GH: 8 dGH*
> These two measurements vary from keeper to keeper and doesn't seem to be a deal breaker on the survival rate of Cardinal shrimp
> 
> TDS: TBD (need to buy meter)
> 
> Substrate: Fine white sands
> 
> *Aquascape: Rock wall, Flame moss wall, Vallisnera, a single Luwigia Repen*, some mini water lettuces and large duckweeds.*
> 
> I have a moss ball and peacock moss in my set up and the shrimp really don't bother with vegetation. I rarely see them on either. They are rock dwellers is the wild, they forage algae from the rocks and used cracks, crevices, holes, etc for hiding. Your plants will likely be an aeshetics things rather than functional for the shrimp.
> 
> MAINTENANCE:
> 
> *WC: continuous drips of premix at 10% per week.
> 
> Top-Off: I need to determine the average evaporation rate and adjust the premix accordingly. Technically, this is not needed as the continuous drip will keep the tank topped up, but will need to monitor the GH/KH.*
> 
> The continuous drip has me worried. I think if you are dripping to replace evaporated water with a drip of premixed solution you will be continuously adding more minerals and salts to your column. It is my belief that consistancy in water parameters is very important for these shrimp. I could striaght R/O working better. Just my train of thought.
> 
> *Vacumm: Daily if possible, and weekly flushing out the rock scape + filter.*
> You mentioned that you are looking for 2-4 shrimp. the bio load from the shrimp won't justify that much maintenance at the beginning. I have somewhere around 100 in a 10 gallon and my bio load won't keep 12 pieces of Silvina alive.
> 
> *Feeding: Frozen organic spinach twice a week, zuchinni, xx shrimp food. Please suggest xx for Sulawesi shrimps.*
> 
> I feed spinach twice a week about a finger nail size. I have a lot of algae that they constantly pick at. Over feeding is a killer. Don't over feed. I will put 2 rice grain sized pieces of Hikari algae wafer in place of spinach from time to time.
> 
> CONSIDERATIONS:
> Crush Coral - I have decided against crush coral as a substrate base on comments that it's a nitrate trap. However, I am looking for coral skeleton. If pH is a problem, I'll revisit the idea of crush coral.
> 
> Luwidgia Repen - I love this plant, and the colour suits the white substrate and the grey rock wall. I have a feeling that it won't last in this tank but let's see.
> 
> Will update when I get more info. BTW, the CO2 diffuser is there temporarily to help dissolve the mineral mix as the water has a slight whitest cast.


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## LTPGuy

Thanks very much for your guide and comments BigD. To answer your concerns, the salt mix was supposed to produce the proper pH/KH/GH.

When the water came out as a white mirky solution, I decided to add CO2 according to the instruction to help the salt dissolved. I am using Salty Sulawesi 8.5. It is clearing up now. Not sure if it because the salt has settle or it actually dissolved.

Now I'll have to wait for the CO2 to liberate before measuring the pH which I expect to be close to 8.5.

The water change implementation is a design I have used a long time ago, and it is nothing new or novel as other have done it prior and still now.

My tank will have an overflow so that as water is dripped into the tank, an equal amount will exit the overflow less any evaporation. This way, the water is continuously changed a little bit at a time instead of the large chunk of 10% weekly. Also, the water is always topped up so no need to top up.

The drip rate will be adjusted so that by the end of a week, the total amount of water would have been 10% or water the rate is adjusted to.

Evaporation might be an issue, but the tank is 95% covered, and I will monitor the water parameter and make adjustment accordingly. Because the WC is continuously dripped, any changes will be so minor that there won't be any shock to the shrimps.

As for the photo, I don't why the other photo don't show up. I have no problem seeing them. Anyone else see or don't see the photo?


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## greg

I'm looking to get some Sulawesi myself, so will be following this thread with interest. Good luck!

Greg


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## LTPGuy

greg said:


> I'm looking to get some Sulawesi myself, so will be following this thread with interest. Good luck!
> 
> Greg


Check out BigDaddyO thread here. He has something up and working!

BTW, do you see all of the photo?


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## greg

LTPGuy said:


> BTW, do you see all of the photo?


No, just see question marks in place of images in body of post. Attached images at bottom of post work.

Greg


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## LTPGuy

Thanks very much for your thoughts and comments Bettaforu. Please find my answer in green below..



bettaforu said:


> what's your PH reading right now?
> 
> The setup looks good, except that you have left virtually no room for you to see the shrimps. Like I mentioned these shrimps hide a lot, so once they are in the nooks and crannies of that rock wall you won't see them.
> 
> This is a very good point. My purpose right now is to keep the future resident as happy and comfortable as they can be until a decent population size is achieved. Lots of hiding places means a lot less stress. This hopefully will encourage them to be prolific!
> 
> Im not sure that sand will keep your PH where it needs to be for these. Im not one to add any kind of mix to keep PH up, so not sure what this mineral mix does, but personally I would go with the crushed coral substrate to keep my PH stable rather than have to keep adding something to the water changes.
> 
> The sand is just nice to look at instead of the tank bottom. It's not meant to do anything to the pH. It's fine enough that the shrimp pool can be seen easily and hence vac up easily.
> 
> The mineral mix I got from AngelFins is Salty Sulawesi 8.5. Mix according to direction will result in "almost exact copy of the water of Lake Towuti and a correspondingly high pH of 8.5". Again, I am shadowing BigDad approach with the salt. I know he uses Salty 7.0 with success. I used 8.5 because I've read everywhere, and without deviation, it is suggested that a pH of around 8.0.
> 
> On the matter of keeping the pH stable, I'll start a new post below.
> 
> PS what are you using to filter the water?
> I though of setting up a MHF, but the thought of air pump and bubbling noise (in my bed room) will drive me crazy. So I elected to use a small pump from Hagen Stingray filter encase in scrubpad along with the rock wall. The sand bed will help a little also. As shrimps has low bioload, I hope this is enough. I will have to monitor everything closely, and slowly make adjustment if necessary.


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## Bigdaddyo

LTPGuy said:


> Thanks very much for your thoughts and comments Bettaforu. Please find my answer in green below..


You mention that you didn't want the bubbling from an air driven filter. With temps near 85 (or even 80) and a ph over 8 the water column will become oxygen depleated. You will need an air stone. I had to add an airstone on top of my air driven lift tube for my HMF.


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## bettaforu

Get yourself some earplugs LOL. No seriously I don't know if this will work without some sort of intank filtration, and/or airstone. 

As for the rock wall...I understand your intent is to increase the population while trying to decrease stress on these fragile shrimps....however, if you can't see them, how are you ever going to know if any of them die or give birth?? 

Even when I had mine setup, it was very hard to keep track of what shrimps I was actually seeing, as some would come out and some wouldn't, so I might have been seeing the same shrimp popping up over the edge of a rock at different spots, no way to tell. 

They never all appeared together, and even when I first saw babies, I didn't know how many I actually had as they were never all in the one spot.


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## LTPGuy

*Thank you*

Please keeps the comments coming as I take all of them constructively.

I was staring at the tank yesterday and going over my notes and noted two flaws in my current setup. BigD hit one on the mark. I have no air in the tank, and the temperature is too low.

As all of my prior setup were heavily planted, I did would never ever considered bubbling air in them. Since this is a shrimp only, and barely planted if any, it looks like I will have to get air in the tank some how.

So it looks like the filter will have to be air driven as it is the simplest and most cost effective. Thanks for the reminder BigD.

I'll will have to add a heater also to get the temperature up.


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## bettaforu

As BigD stated Cardinal shrimps only eat biofilm from rocks/filters etc (yes they do eat off the sponge filters as I have seen them do it) so having plants in this tank is for you only...not the good of the shrimps.

You also might want to look into getting a yellow footed sulawesi snail or Rabbit snail as its called...couple would be sufficient as they will eventually breed. 

It seems that there is a symbiotic relationship between these snails and the shrimp (seems the shrimp actually eat the snail poop) I kept a couple in my tank for cleanup purposes and the shrimps really seemed to come out more once the snails were introduced.

Yes a heater is a must as you have to keep that temp up over the 84F mark...I kept mine at 86F. They are extremely sensitive as I mentioned before to temp fluctuations, so having the heater already set and operational before you introduce the shrimps will add to their comfort and health.

Lava rock is also a good candidate for adding biofilm quickly to a tank, as this type of rock seems to collect the bacteria in the holes very quickly.

Keep in mind not ALL rocks are suitable for these shrimps. Some rocks will never grow algae on no matter what (ive had a problem with this before) so picking the right type of rock is also a good idea. Check out the type of rocks these shrimps graze upon in the wild and try to duplicate them.


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## LTPGuy

Bigdaddyo said:


> You mention that you didn't want the bubbling from an air driven filter. With temps near 85 (or even 80) and a ph over 8 the water column will become oxygen depleated. You will need an air stone. I had to add an airstone on top of my air driven lift tube for my HMF.


What happened that made you added the airstone in addition to the one in the lift tube? How did you determine how much was enough air agitation?

Thanks.


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## Bigdaddyo

LTPGuy said:


> What happened that made you added the airstone in addition to the one in the lift tube? How did you determine how much was enough air agitation?
> 
> Thanks.


For the first couple of weeks I noticed that they weren't very active. They weren't picking at rock rocks or moving around much. So the idea came to me. I remembered that when treating fish for ick, you raise the temp as high as fish will handle it (usually 82ish) but to always add a stone to increase oxygen levels. As soon as the oxygen levels came up they were very active and have been non stop foraging all over the tank.


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## LTPGuy

*Update change to setup*

Thanks to everyone's comments, I have made changes to my setup and updated my initial post to reflect the changes.

I removed the Stingray pump and replaced it with a HMF using scrubpad and cpvc tube. I can see that there is good water circulation. I barely notice the noise from the filter so I am happy with that.

Some might wonder if the scrubpad is enough media for filtering? I am confident that it does serves it's purpose as I understand shrimps has low bioload.

Furthermore, I have been running a test setup for over a month now using a 3L jar, housing 5 juvies endlers, and 4 neos. I feed the endlers bits if flakes daily. The filter is made of a piece of scrubpad (4x6" from $store) wrap around 1/2" tube. Water tested today showed undetectable amount of NO2 and NO3 with a pH of 8.5.

Tap water in Mis'ga near Creditview and Britannia has the following parameters:
NO3: not detectable
NO2: not detectable
GH: ~200ppm
KH: ~180ppm
pH: 8.5

This leads me to believe that I don't really need the Sulawesi mineral mix as the tap water is very close to that of the mineral mix.

Having seen BigD water parameters, it looks like the high GH is a non-issues for him as he reported 19dGH which is 339ppm!

I still want to discuss pH, buffer, and crush coral. Hopefully tomorrow.


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## LTPGuy

*Setup go live!*

My impulsive-compulsive nature took over and I got myself 6 Caridina Wotereckae. I should have waited as these were freshly arrive from Lake Towuti.

The drip acclimatization container sat floating in the tank, with tank water dripping so slow that only 20% of the water had dripped into the container over 2 hours period.

One did not make it in the drip acclimatization container.

All of the live shrimps changed their colour from red and red-brown to brown. I was p..ing in my pants. After six hours, I netted the shrimp into the main tank.

Another two did not make it overnight. I more than p..ing in my pants now.

Today, three are still kicking, but they are extremely shy. They are eating from the rock wall.

Also, water evaporate was insane with 90% surface cover; 1L overnight. The tank is 99% convered now, and so far, close to 0% water lost.

Shrimps colours are returning.


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## matti2uude

Where were you able to find the shrimp?


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## bettaforu

second that question? Harlequin shrimp are not usually available here...would love to see the pics of the ones you did get. Good luck with these, as mentioned before in previous posts these are even harder than
the cardinals!


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## randy

Loss on the wild caught is normal, that's why some people prefer aquarium bred, but they're not readily available. Show us those pretty shrimps.


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## LTPGuy

*Photo*

Here is the best photo that I can take. I'll try some other setting unless someone can teach me how to take decent photo on my wife's D90.

No macro lense. I am seriously thinking about an extension tube. Currently have Nikor 18-200mm 3.5-5.6.










Thanks to BigDaddy for pointing out the shrimps. They are available at Big Al's Kitchener.


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## WiyRay

I'm so very jealous! I might have to contemplate a journey out to Kitchener myself... 

Care to share how many did they have and how much they were going for? 

Did you use a thermos, cooler with heat packs, or anything like that during the transit home?


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## Bigdaddyo

I got 23 on Friday and the last 2 died today. I honestly wouldn't waste the gas. They had about a 30 percent DOA. I was really looking forward to adding these to my collection..


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## LTPGuy

Bigdaddyo said:


> I got 23 on Friday and the last 2 died today. I honestly wouldn't waste the gas. They had about a 30 percent DOA. I was really looking forward to adding these to my collection..


I really feel your pain.

Can you give me an idea of their behavior leading up to their demise? I remain hopeful, and trying my hardest to not mess around with the setup. I understand the milestones are 1 week, 1 month, and 3 months. Cross my fingers.

What was the parameter on your tank? Did you do any feeding and what?

These shrimps are incredibly shy, and don't come across as very active. They spend most of their time hanging on to the rock, sometime grazing. They can see you miles away unlike the neos I have.

Lights just went off, and my digital thermometer just dropped 1 full degree. F$#$##$. I am going to test how well it flies tomorrow follows by a hammer test.

Here's another photo taken with my Lumix DMC-FH20. Notice how my wife gets the D90, and I get the Lumix!










BTW ..Ray, if you're still interested, I am guessing that there were at least 50-75 last Friday. Don't know for sure as there were driftwoods and plants and other fishes - in the same tank. You had better called to verify price and quantity.

In term of transport, I was too compulsive-impulsive to even thought about what to hold the shrimps in. So they came home to with me in big als plastic bag. I did however crank up the heater in my car to 28 degree there and back. Should have brought my hawaiin shirt!


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## bettaforu

So sorry you are losing these unique shrimps...from what you've mentioned about them being in the same tank as other fishes, they could have picked up bacterial infections from the fish. 

It doesn't take long for these shrimps to get sick, at least when Brent brought the Sulawesi shrimps in at PJs he had the knowledge to keep them separate so as to give them a chance at acclimation to our water/soil/food parameters. He had the temps set right too, and Im sure BAs didn't do much about the PH or temp as they wouldn't really know that these shrimps need particular parameters. 

Depending on the price of these (and I can imagine they would be upwards up $10 each) that is a huge loss with NO return.


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## Bigdaddyo

LTPGuy said:


> I really feel your pain.
> 
> Can you give me an idea of their behavior leading up to their demise? I remain hopeful, and trying my hardest to not mess around with the setup. I understand the milestones are 1 week, 1 month, and 3 months. Cross my fingers.
> 
> What was the parameter on your tank? Did you do any feeding and what?
> 
> These shrimps are incredibly shy, and don't come across as very active. They spend most of their time hanging on to the rock, sometime grazing. They can see you miles away unlike the neos I have.


They were very inactive mostly just staying stationary in one spot. They should be constantly grazing and moving. My water parameters were the least of my worries as to their survival. They are very delicate and they either acclimate or they die. They had some seaweed in the bag when I bought them.

I took a nice aglae covered rock from my Cardinal tank and put it in the tank for them to pick at when they were up to it. A baby Cardinal made the trip too and it is fine, I saw it this morning when I checked in on the tank. I put 4 more Cardinals in the tank last night so if they survive they I'll know for sure it wasn't the tank.

My water was
81.5 F
KH 6
GH 9
Never tested No2, No3. The tank has been up and running for quite some time with healthy live stock before I changed the set up for sulawesi shrimp.


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## WiyRay

LTPGuy said:


> BTW ..Ray, if you're still interested, I am guessing that there were at least 50-75 last Friday. Don't know for sure as there were driftwoods and plants and other fishes - in the same tank. You had better called to verify price and quantity.
> 
> In term of transport, I was too compulsive-impulsive to even thought about what to hold the shrimps in. So they came home to with me in big als plastic bag. I did however crank up the heater in my car to 28 degree there and back. Should have brought my hawaiin shirt!





bettaforu said:


> Im sure BAs didn't do much about the PH or temp as they wouldn't really know that these shrimps need particular parameters.


I'm pretty sure as well that BA wouldn't set the required parameters, so there's a good chance that the longer they're in there, the weaker they'll be.
I would be a little surprised if there were any left by the end of this week.

I think I would have a better chance at survival rates if I practically get them into my tank as soon as they arrive before the lfs even has a chance at putting them into their own tanks. But that's my own personal reasoning and not based on facts of any sort.

And 28 degrees would be too hot for me in a car. I'd be pulled over for driving around naked. (I really don't like the heat )


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## LTPGuy

*More photo and sited a baby*

It has been 5 days, but it seems like forever. The two males are actively grazing on an algae infested rock.

The female has been MIA, and I don't see evident to indicate her demise. She was berried on arrival and I was hopeful. Moments ago, I caught site of 1 baby grazing upside down on the underside of a rock!

Here are two more photo of the male with a close-up lens. Still not Macro calibre.


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## randy

Congratulations on the new born baby !!



LTPGuy said:


> It has been 5 days, but it seems like forever. The two males are actively grazing on an algae infested rock.
> 
> The female has been MIA, and I don't see evident to indicate her demise. She was berried on arrival and I was hopeful. Moments ago, I caught site of 1 baby grazing upside down on the underside of a rock!
> 
> Here are two more photo of the male with a close-up lens. Still not Macro calibre.


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## bettaforu

Keeping fingers crossed for you!


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## LTPGuy

*Car pool anyone?*

I am keeping everything crossed right now! I am a little down as I can't find the mother. There were no bodies so there can't be any crime...right?

The two males are actively grazing on the rocks, but are incredibly shy.

The one baby (sihouette of one) looks almost identical to its parent, and it's always hiding, but appears to be grazing on the rock surface.

The rock wall is really doing its job. Food and shelter!

I am likely to make another trip to KW if there are still stock.

Anyone interested in car pooling? Considering how fragile the goods are, I am not going to offer pick up services.


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## bettaforu

When I lost mine there were never any bodies, they just dissappeared...I believe the others eat them, and the snails eat any leftovers.


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## WiyRay

I'm a little curious. Are you sure they're caridina woltereck and not caridina spongicola? 

After quite a bit of reading, the spongicola seem to be the most popular/discussed yet also "impossible" to keep due to the proposed symbiotic nature with the sponges from that region. The two are more or less the same pattern-wise with woltereck said to be more solid in colouration. 

If they really are woltereck and not spongicola, I think I might start to consider going again


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## LTPGuy

*Spongicola vs Woltereckae*



WiyRay said:


> I'm a little curious. Are you sure they're caridina woltereck and not caridina spongicola?
> 
> After quite a bit of reading, the spongicola seem to be the most popular/discussed yet also "impossible" to keep due to the proposed symbiotic nature with the sponges from that region. The two are more or less the same pattern-wise with woltereck said to be more solid in colouration.
> 
> If they really are woltereck and not spongicola, I think I might start to consider going again


You raised an interesting point and got me doing some research.

Here is a good link describing the differences.

Compare the photo from the link to my own, it appears that I have Woltereckae. I will have to double check rostrum relative to the scaphocerite tomorrow when the light is up.

Also, BA manager told me that it was Woltereckae. He appears to be a knowledgeable hobbist and a member of KWAS.

Here is an interesting link about Sulawesi shrimps, their lakes and their associated water parameters.

An excerpt:



> Lake Towuti
> - C. woltereckae
> - C. spinata
> - C. spongicola
> - C. masapi
> - C. lanceolata
> - C loehae
> - C. lingkonae
> - C. striata
> - C glaubrechti
> - C. holthuisi
> - C. "Red Orchid"
> 
> Temperature 29.2
> PH 8.4
> GH 6
> KH 4
> Conductivity 146 micro Siemens
> Oxygen 7.15 mg / l
> 
> Now why are the Towuti shrimp so Difficult to keepalive? The other lakes have a larger human population settled around Them. There is a growing overpriced Nikel industry there. Although Those lakes are still very clean Compared to other Lakes, Their shrimp have come into contact with a lot more dirt and bacteria than the Towutiräkor.
> 
> The Towuti overpriced has a different composition of minerals in its waters than the other lakes. It is very clean and very low in bacteria. The Towutiräkor USUALLY Die Because The water parameters are wrong for Them. What works for the Posos and the Matanos does not work for the Towutis. Also people make the mistake of feeding Them too much, the bacteria level in the aquarium then Rises And they can not handle that. To keep alive Towutis you need the right sort of Mineral Salt, you need to check the Conductivity, KH and GH every couple of days and you need to make frequent water changes and not use tap water but Osmoswater. You also need to keep the aquarium as clean as Possible. Then you'll have a chance. If you do not do this, it is a waste of time and money since They will most surely die.


Looks like it will be spring cleaning in the tank tomorrow.

As a side note, I caught site of another baby in the crack on the rock wall! I am assuming now that the mother has expired as there are no signs of her.

Wife and I have a day off tomorrow so we'll likely be heading to KW if BA still has stocks.


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## LTPGuy

*Week2 water test*

NO3: 0ppm
NO2: 0ppm
GH: 300ppm
KH: 100ppm
pH: 8.2


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## LTPGuy

*Week 3 water test & photo*

NO3: 0 ppm
NO2: 0 ppm
GH: 150 ppm
KH: 140 ppm
pH: 8.1

No water change, with minimal top up.

Red duckweed and mini water lettuce, courtesy of Egongirl & ScottMando respectively, are doing well and multiplying! The vals are growing buds also.

The two remaining males are more adventuress and still grazing on the rocks, eating some spinach today.

Caught site of both babies which appears to have doubled in size but still extremely small.

On the matter of whether these are C. Woltereckae or Spongicola, here is another close-up. The rostum appears to be as long or longer than the scaphocerite making it C. Woltereckae.


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## matti2uude

Very nice! I picked up some Red Orchids today with one of them being berried.


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## LTPGuy

matti2uude said:


> Very nice! I picked up some Red Orchids today with one of them being berried.


Where did you get them from? Other there other Sulawesi? I am looking for more Woltereckae as I only have male, and Dennerli.

What's your setup like? If I can learn more the better it will be for the two and babies I have.


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## matti2uude

I got them at Aquariums by Design in Waterloo. They only had the one kind but it looks like I got a different one in mine.


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## matti2uude

My set up is a 20 gallon with ehfilav for substrate, 2x t5ho, hamburg matten filter, sponge filter, 2x 50 watt heaters. I have a piece of wood, red and black lava rocks, 2x almond leaves and an alder cone. I used RO/DI mixed with Salty Shrimp 7.5 to get Gh6. My Ph is 8, Tds 250 and I haven't tested anything else. I'll post a tank shot when I get it off the floor.


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## matti2uude

Looks like I only got one red orchid and the rest are red line bees. I found one dead this morning.


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## Bigdaddyo

I just got back from Aquariums by Design and I got the last 2 Red Orchids. Hopefully a male and a female. The other shrimps are C. Striata. I picked up a bunch of those too, 3-4 were berried. Fingers crossed. They still had about 15 C.Striata left.
Sorry LTP if this is off track. Just thought I'd share.


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## LTPGuy

Good luck with all of your shrimps. I don't mind any kind of post as long as it's about Sulawesi. We're all here to learn from each other, and that includes where to get the goodies, etc!


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## LTPGuy

*Cross Breeding of Sulawesi (Caridina) shrimps*

I was looking at a compatibility chart I found from here. Apparently, Caridina and Sulawesi Caridina are different, and apparently the Sulawesi Caridina don't interbreed.

Can someone comment on this? If this is true, it will be very exciting as one can house a Sulawesi community tank. Just imagine the freedom!!


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## matti2uude

Apparently some of the Sulawesi will interbreed. I can't remember which ones but I'll try to find it. 
I have 3 white orchids left in the new tank and one is berried already.


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## matti2uude

Here's a link about cross breeding. 
http://www.houstonfishbox.com/vforums/showthread.php?42765-sulawesi-crossbreed


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## bettaforu

I just read on the web somewhere, that its best to keep Harlequins separate in a tank by themselves. Seems they don't do well with the other types, and Wild caught are the hardest to keep alive. 

If you can find someone who has bred them and has a few offspring those will adapt quicker to our water/food parameters. 

Also read that feeding powdered spirulina is a good food for them....try to sprinkle it over the rocks where they stay. 

Another theory is they are territorial and stay on whatever area/sponge/rock they pick out and defend it against others. Maybe that's why they have been so hard to breed if they are in a community tank with other Sulawesi's. Just a thought!


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## LTPGuy

*Planaria Bloom*

 There were 3 or 4 two days ago, and last night with the light off, they were everywhere! On the glass wall, on the substrate, in the water column.

I barely fed the shrimps. Three days ago, I dropped in a piece of spinach the size of a rice grain. The shrimp ate it, and I didn't see any left over. Maybe it got lodge in rock cracks, but I didn't see it.

Yesterday, I dropped a rice grain size of Hikari Algae wafer.

There is a lot of hearsay about Planaria attack babie shrimps. I've yet to read a first-hand comment regarding planaria eating live shrimps.

I stuck a HOB in and filter a lot of them. There are less, but still plenty today. I am putting in a planaria trap to do what I can.

Please comment on treating with *fenbendazol*. This link is a testament of positive results in a shrimp setup.

Anyone else have this issue?

I have stop feeding.

Thanks.


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## eatmysox

It was nice to meet you today. For anyone interestes there are still six striata shrimp left at ABD in waterloo 

Sent by little green men....


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## Bigdaddyo

eatmysox said:


> It was nice to meet you today. For anyone interestes there are still six striata shrimp left at ABD in waterloo
> 
> Sent by little green men....


Shameless plug..............
Rumour has it there is one Red Orchid hiding there..........?


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## eatmysox

funny rumor, didn't see any in there or you would of had another one


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## LTPGuy

eatmysox said:


> It was nice to meet you today. For anyone interestes there are still six striata shrimp left at ABD in waterloo
> 
> Sent by little green men....


The pleasure was mine. Makes the trip all the more worthwhile with knowledgeable and friendly service.

It was nice to see clean tanks, and hopping healthy shrimps. I feel a lot more confident with survival rate.


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## LTPGuy

*CTRL-ALT-DEL.. I did it the hard way so you don't have to.*

I didn't get Fendmendazole in time to attempt to clear the tank of Planaria, and I'd already committed to additional stocks.

Caught between a rock and a hard place, I decided to completely sterilize the setup.

The rocks were scrubbed in hot water followed by 5 minutes in the microwave. The sand and filter media was dumped. The tank was scrubbed down with hot water. Plants were removed and replaced. This is as virgin as I can get it aside from bleach and treat. A super thin layer of sand was added so that I don't have to see the glass bottom.

I also did something which I was on the fence about initially. I filled the tank with filtered (ceramic+carbon) TAP water. The water has the following parameter at 25°C:


NO3: 0 ppm
NO2: 0 ppm
GH: 150 ppm
KH: 180 ppm
pH: 7.8
I am doing it so that you don't have to or try!

I debated about dripping water from the filter in my main tank into the media but was concern about adding critters that I didn't wanted. So I went with virgin media. I did add duckweed and mini water lettuce that sat in unfilter tap water, follow by double rinsing and close visual inspection plus sampling under the microscope.

I rearrange the rock "garden/cave" into three main groups. The structures were arranged in manner that I have visual siting of about 80% of the area from different angles.

The water was heated to 28°C and shrimps climatized to the same temperature of the tank.

It has been 24 hours and shrimps appears to be actively grazing mostly under the rocks, but some on the filter media and on the rock surface out in the light.

The two Woltereckae are doing well. One baby Woltereckae was MIA during the purge process. It's possible that it may have perish prior, or clung to a rock as I remove them. The Striatas appears to be active and wasn't shy.

There are plenty of shrimp droppings on the rock surface. How often should I vacuum them?

Here are photo of the setup from two angles.


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## LTPGuy

*Day 20*

Day 20 for the Striata and Dennerli. Day 42 for the Woltereckae.

Water parameter is relative stable at:
9 dG
6 dK
8.5 pH
28 °C
0 NO3

Mortality:
Woltereckae - 0
Dennerli - 0
Striata - 3

Current Population:
Woltereckae: 2 adults + 1 toddler!
Dennerli: 4 Juveniles
Striata: 5 adults (1 berried)
Pond Snails: 5 + 1 batch of eggs

Planaria: Yep, they are back. Not yet an eyesore.
Copepod: Them too.

I did something that was a bit on the daring side after the planaria outbreak. I populated an uncycled sulawesi shrimp tank.

The motivation was the unsitely planaria outbreak and the fear of using chemical (fendbendazole).

The justification was the low bioloads from the shrimps, and the addition of floating plants under high light.

The results were 1st Striata mortality after a day of acclimation. 2nd Striata the following day. 3rd Striata on the 11th day. The 3rd might have died shortly after a molting as there was an empty shell nearby.

The baby Woltereckae has grown up to to be about 5mm.

The current population appears to be happy and not as shy. All are daring the open to graze on the rock surface, and filter pad.

Whole bit of spinach leaf and algae wafer are mostly ignored by the population. Puree spinach leaf appears to be affective, but these shrimps are messy eater and so some if not most are scattered as they eat from the feeding fish.

There are a lot of droppings in the sand, and even more with the addition of the snails. I added the snails base of comments by other Sulawesi keepers that the shrimps might be feeding on the microbes/algae from the droppings.

Plants does nothing for the shrimps as they ignored them. It however keep the water clean as there is no nitrate in the water, and the plants appears to be thriving meaning that nutrients are being up taken.

There are next to no visible algae on the rock surfaces, but the shrimps are happily grazing on them. I may have to add some nutrients to encourage some algae growth.

I am happy to see that I have at least one female Striata and that she's berried. Cross my finger that the eggs do not drop, and I may be some babies in a month time.

I am itching to add an UGF to the setup, but will wait to see how well the berried female does. I believe a UGF is more beneficial to the Sulawesi shrimps for the following reasons:

1. Shrimps appears to graze only on the rock surface and substrate, with 1 or two on the filter pad.

2. UGF provides both filtration and food source for the shrimps in area that they are most confortable with.

3. The removal of the filter pad makes for a "cleaner" looking tank.

4. UGF also provide greater surface area than my current scrub pad media.

I am contemplating of the used of automotive tints (reflective one) on the aquarium glass so the shy and paranoid shrimps will stay less jumpy and hence less stressed.

One last comment is that the Dennerli by far are the most beautiful and graceful out of the three species I have. Thanks BigD for sparing some!


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## Fishfur

Just a question on the planaria you had. How large were they ? I ask because there's another thread where this was discussed.. there are Asian species that come as hitchhikers sometimes, and they are HUGE ! Over an inch long, more than a quarter inch wide, very distinct triangular head and the two eye spots are easy to see on the top of the head. These are pretty massive creatures, and I have no problem with the idea they'd eat a baby shrimp. 

But they don't have a mouth or teeth to bite with. They have an opening on the underside and secrete digestive juices on prey they have climbed upon. Then they suck up the digested prey item once it's become a sort of smoothie. Anything large enough to shove one of these animals away would escape, but a baby shrimp wouldn't be able to shift one of these monsters.

However, I think the planaria many of us see in our tanks are native North American species. My personal suspicion is that they come with plants, possibly from the southern USA. But no matter where they come from, they are really tiny by comparison with the Asian imports. I've had them for awhile now. Particularly in one small tank along with with scuds I'm trying to culture and Amano shrimp. The largest I've seen, after months of being there, so I am sure it's full grown, is less than a half inch long. They are less than 1/16th inch wide, and while they have the same head shape, it's quite hard to see it without a magnifying glass. The eye spots are barely visible. They would also have a correspondingly tiny digestive opening, and would most likely prey on very small things. I would think almost any shrimp, even a baby, could escape from one of these before they had time to turn them into shrimp smoothies. If anyone has ever seen one of these small species actually eat a baby shrimp, I'd sure like to know about it.

So if you had the big ones.. you did the right thing to get rid of them. But if you had the small ones, maybe it was not necessary to sterilize the tank. Though if you had a lot of them, or if the sight of them just grosses you out, well, I guess getting rid of them was worth it then. 

But I am really beginning to wonder if all the hype about planaria, in general, being dangerous to baby shrimp is deserved. I've never seen any post that complains about them mention the size of the planaria they are talking about, and the only place that I, personally, have ever seen the enormous Asian species was in a shrimp tank at a store one day. There were dozens of them all it, but the shrimp appeared to be fine. Maybe they only eat shrimp if they are very fortunate and happen to crawl over one at an opportune time ? Mostly they seem to glide on the glass or other surfaces. My small ones spend much of their time on the java moss, and I suspect they mostly eat biofilm, or infusoria, not shrimp, not even newborn ones.

Our native North American species are, I think, largely harmless to most creatures and in habitat they are fish food more often than not.


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## LTPGuy

Fishfur said:


> But I am really beginning to wonder if all the hype about planaria, in general, being dangerous to baby shrimp is deserved.


When I had my outbreak, it was like a cloud of planaria. The density would be about 1 for every 2" cube. They come out at night, and they not only crawl on the glass but float in the water column also.

The largest size would be about 3mm long, <1mm wide. For the most part, they are unsightly overall, and to me disgusting looking.

I am also tend to agree with your feeling about hypes with regards to planaria and shrimps. Most of the video and testimony appears to show shrimps that are already dead, or sickly. If anyone have references to first hand account of predation, I would be very interested to read up on them.

As someone already mentioned, large number of planaria is a good indication of overfeeding, and poor water quality so it's a good indicator to strengthening your maintenance routine.


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## Fishfur

Fortunately I've never had them in numbers like that. They do glide on the glass and moss, but I am very sparing with feeding, and skip feeding some days, so the numbers are not out of hand. I really only see them in the small scud tank, mainly because it's at eye level and easy to observe. No fish in this tank, where most of the others have fish, and I think the fish keep them in check.

When I first saw them I had no idea what they were.. eventually I was able to make out the triangle head shape, and figured out they had to be planaria. I find it interesting that I've yet to see one of them even eat a scud, and they are very tiny when newborn. Fast, yes, faster than planaria by far, but they also sit still for periods of time, much like little shrimp do. Yet I've never seen one preyed on, which is one reason I wonder about them preying on baby shrimp.

I have to grant you, it's not like I can watch them 24/7 either.. so anything could be happening, but it does not appear as though they prey on anything in that tank that is big enough to be seen with the naked eye.


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## LTPGuy

*Potential Solution to Planaria and Copedpod*

First the update.
NO2 - 0
NO3 - 0
GH - 9dG
KH - 5dK
pH - 8.2

Mortality since last update...
Striata - 1
Dennerli - 0
Woltereckae - 0? Haven't seen baby woltereckae in a while

It's a little stupid, but I am super depressed about the Striata and baby Woltereckae.

Added 2 drops of EI fert to encourage algal growth for the shrimps to feed on. Barely a green spot on the rock surface. I feed less than 0.5mL of puree spinach every two, maybe three days.

Added pond snails seems to improve shrimp activities, and appeared to temporary cause unwanted critters population to decline.

Perhaps I added a little too much spinach as the critter population started to come back, but not as bad as the outbreak prior to CTRL-ALT-DEL.

One berried Striata is still berried.

Here is an interesting development.

I added 2 Boraras Brigittae (BB) to the tank. Technically speaking, they are soft water fish. There was very little sign of stress as they were netted into the tank.

Within the hour, they were nipping at copepods and planaria on the glass wall. They seems to spit out the larger (2-3mm) planaria. I don't know if the planaria were still alive as some floated lifeless with the water flow, and some dropped to the substrate.

One day after, +90% of the critters are gone from the aquarium wall. Without a doubt, these fishes eat copepods and small planaria. Today, I saw with my own two eyes, a BB zero in on a large (~3mm) planaria.

When close enough, slurp, into its jaw the planaria went. A few chews and no spit out.

Here is the solution to planaria and copepods in shrimps tanks. These BB do not bother the Sulawesi residence!

Let's see if they will do well long term in 28°C at 8.2pH.

Will update in a week or so on this development.


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