# dead clown with pics...what went wrong?



## hondanation (Aug 13, 2012)

New tank and parameters always perfect (am 0, nitrites 0, nitrates 0, ph 8, salinity .23-.25, temp 79-80) it is a bio cube hqi 29 with koralia 420 and mp-10, 20-25 lbs lr and a little macro rock. In tank media basket with filter floss pyrogens and chemo pure elite, lr rubble in refugium. Mj1200 pump upgrade with bio cube skimmer. Used stability with lr to get tank going and parameters always perfect...I test every 2nd day. Put in a peppermint shrimp and clown (big Al's ) on 5th day and it was shy at first then doing awesome. Ate from day 1..everything. 14 days after put in another smaller clown from reputable online dealer. Fish was very shy and did not eat for 7-10 days...at least from what I could see. Original clown took to it right away swimming beside always. About 5 days ago original clown suddenly stopped eating while smaller clown began eating. 2 days ago 1 white sand like spot on original clown and swollen lips and mouth remained open. Today...dead. Clown continued swimming normally right till end. No scraping on anything or swimming weird. Other clown and shrimp eating and seem normal. Parameters still same. Everything drip acclimated for 2 hour. Any ideas from experts around here? I attached pics.


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

you do not need to be expert. Each fish must be quarantined for at least two weeks.

If it is ich you should wait now at least 10 weeks before putting any fish inside the tank

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## hondanation (Aug 13, 2012)

i realize everyone should have quarantine and put new fish in there. I did not...my question is based on pics and what i have stated can anyone pinpoint what happened here?

thanks.


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## Tim (Dec 11, 2011)

hard to tell from pics but 1 white sand like spot sounds like ich. If it had whitish hairs coming from it brooklynella

Did you give it a fw dip before adding it to your tank?

and as per sig:



> If it is ich you should wait now at least 10 weeks before putting any fish inside the tank


yeppers, because you now have other stages of ich floating around in your tank and you have to deny then a host so they die off.


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## Flazky (Jan 9, 2010)

How long has your tank been up? Sounds to me like you did not finish cycling it yet!


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

hondanation said:


> i realize everyone should have quarantine and put new fish in there. I did not...
> thanks.


do not worry, you are not alone here (me also sometimes)

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## Tim (Dec 11, 2011)

Flazky said:


> How long has your tank been up? Sounds to me like you did not finish cycling it yet!


Thinking it was an ammonia burn?


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## hondanation (Aug 13, 2012)

Wow ammonia burn? Readings never been above 0....I very good live rock from established aquarium store from Indonesia. This stuff was awesome! That along with using seachems stability I believe led to quick cycle. Would ammonia burn take a month? What about peppermint shrimp in there for same period...he is fine. This went from perfect swimming and eating clown for 3 weeks, to not eating, 1 white dot swollen lips then death. No rubbing observed. Oh we'll I will keep an eye on other clown and shrimp who appear fine and work on that quarantine tank


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## hondanation (Aug 13, 2012)

Tim said:


> hard to tell from pics but 1 white sand like spot sounds like ich. If it had whitish hairs coming from it brooklynella
> 
> Did you give it a fw dip before adding it to your tank?
> 
> ...


How long should dip be in future?


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## Tim (Dec 11, 2011)

http://www.reefland.com/forum/marin...tment/18887-freshwater-dip-marine-fishes.html


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## jkoot (Apr 17, 2012)

Could it be two juv clowns fighting for dominance and the one clown didn't make it through the beatings?

>jason


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## mrobson (Mar 5, 2011)

how old is the tank set up? were did the fish come from? Is the other fish showing signs of infection?


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## nso_168 (Sep 22, 2011)

Questions:

* Did he scratch a lot
* Was the breathing very fast

These are typical symptoms for ich. If so, there will be another proof coming soon. Your other clown will likely to go through a similar path. If all these are negative, then it is something else.

I may be on the extreme side, but I believe most fish, including clowns, are very tolerant in terms of water parameters, e.g. Nitrite and Nitrate, and may be even ammonia. They may not be happy, but will eat and survive. 0ppm - nice, but is not the break between dead and alive for most fish (invert is different though). What will kill them are the diseases and parasites we all aware and to be avoided. Why bother spending money on test kits and time doing the testing every n days, and do not quarantine? This is like creating a good environment for the fish to die, sorry.


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## pat3612 (Jan 29, 2008)

Not only ick but looks like it has a case of velvet too. I too picked both these up from BAls One of my clowns I lost the second I saved with fresh water dips. I had to leave the tank for 6 weeks. Now nothing goes into my tank till it qt for 4 weeks at least. Sorry for your loss it sucks


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## hondanation (Aug 13, 2012)

Appreciate everyone's responses. The other clown began swimming, exploring and eating everything I threw at him. He was very active, looked great, was growing, no signs of any problems. Then 1 day I feed him, went out, came back 3 hours later and he was GONE! No trace since...I check tank that night, looked inside rocks as much as I could and have done do a couple times since. Parameters perfect...I have checked every day thinking that if it died ammonia would spike...nothing. All that is in there is 1 peppermint shrimp and random snail hit hitchhikers. 

I checked everywhere possible....floor, back chambers etc...this fish has been vaporized!


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## Tim (Dec 11, 2011)

hondanation said:


> Appreciate everyone's responses. The other clown began swimming, exploring and eating everything I threw at him. He was very active, looked great, was growing, no signs of any problems. Then 1 day I feed him, went out, came back 3 hours later and he was GONE! No trace since...I check tank that night, looked inside rocks as much as I could and have done do a couple times since. Parameters perfect...I have checked every day thinking that if it died ammonia would spike...nothing. All that is in there is 1 peppermint shrimp and random snail hit hitchhikers.
> 
> I checked everywhere possible....floor, back chambers etc...this fish has been vaporized!


That happened to me recently. One of my Chromis just disappeared. It didn't jump out. I assume it just died and my CuC did it's job. My peppermint shrimp is always on the money. It can sense when something is dying and attacks it.


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## hondanation (Aug 13, 2012)

Tim said:


> That happened to me recently. One of my Chromis just disappeared. It didn't jump out. I assume it just died and my CuC did it's job. My peppermint shrimp is always on the money. It can sense when something is dying and attacks it.


More and more I am thinking it was peppermint...but clownfish did not look sick at all...this one was eating better and better, swimming more and exploring more of the tank each day. It would come right up to the front of the tank every time it saw me. Unless there is something else hiding in the rocks (ie hitchhiker) that I dont know about I guess I'll chalk it up to the peppermint.

Either way I'll wait another 6 weeks before I add another fish.


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## Tim (Dec 11, 2011)

I don't think a pepermint can consume a clown that fast. Do yo have nassarius snails as well? If not it could be somewhere you haven't looked yet.


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## hondanation (Aug 13, 2012)

Not sure which snails I have they came with rocks but I have literally looked everywhere. I have laminate around tank so I would have seen water marks if it had jumped out...I have glass top but had it slightly opened exposing maybe third of tank for escape but no trace anywhere...checked every chamber of bio cube...removed everything...no trace. My LR is from Indonesia and very dense with lots of holes, crevices, tunnels. Maybe fish got dragged in and eaten over the last week. Absolutely bizarre...I mean its there then gone hours later.


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