# Stocking Questions?



## bumbleboo (Jun 6, 2010)

Haven't been around for a while... but I've been thinking!

I have 6 Celestial Pearl Danios and 1 Zebra Nerite Snail in a 10 gallon, but I'm thinking of upgrading it to a 20 gallon. If I chose the following fish, would it be overstocking?

x6 Celestial Pearl Danio
x6 Rummynose Tetra
x5 Pygmy Cory
x1 Zebra Nerite Snail
(and lots of plants of course)

If you have any suggestions on how to change this, I'd love to hear them. 

As for a filter I was thinking the Marineland Penguin 150B. But I don't know too much about which filters are good/bad, so if you have some suggestions I'd love to hear them. 

Thank you!


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## Joeee (Apr 3, 2010)

Go with an AquaClear 30-50, not many people will argue that the aquaclear is not sufficient.

x6 Celestial Pearl Danio -> Maximum of 6 inches of fish
x6 Rummynose Tetra -> Maximum of 12 inches of fish
x5 Pygmy Cory -> Maximum of 3.75 inches of fish
x1 Zebra Nerite Snail -> ?


It'd be 21.75 inches of fish and a snail. If you follow the 1 inch a fish rule, then it's slightly overstocking but it doesn't look like it'll be much of a problem. If you decide to get a 20G, you might want to get a 20G long as fish like more horizontal swimming space than vertical. You could also buy the Hagen 21G Euro which was discontinued, but you can still easily find these if you call around. I think the whole kit (which comes with a 30G Aquaclear) is $90 at PetSmart.

EDIT:

As long as you add these fish gradually, I think it should be fine.


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## bumbleboo (Jun 6, 2010)

Joeee said:


> Go with an AquaClear 30-50, not many people will argue that the aquaclear is not sufficient.
> 
> x6 Celestial Pearl Danio -> Maximum of 6 inches of fish
> x6 Rummynose Tetra -> Maximum of 12 inches of fish
> ...


Okay, thanks.  Yeah, I'd prefer to get a longer type of tank but I'm wondering if it's harder to find light fixtures for those?

Do you know if the one you mentioned has a light fixture that comes with it? I can't find much information on it.


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## Joeee (Apr 3, 2010)

bumbleboo said:


> Okay, thanks.  Yeah, I'd prefer to get a longer type of tank but I'm wondering if it's harder to find light fixtures for those?
> 
> Do you know if the one you mentioned has a light fixture that comes with it? I can't find much information on it.


Yes, it does, it's regular fluorescent fixture and a heater, It's also a rimless tank.

http://www.hagen.com/canada/english/aquatic/product.cfm?CAT=1&SUBCAT=111&PROD_ID=01132450011001

Call in to local PetSmarts to see if they have it.

EDIT: 
For the light fixtures, I think you just buy one rated for a bigger tank.


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## bumbleboo (Jun 6, 2010)

Joeee said:


> Yes, it does, it's regular fluorescent fixture and a heater, It's also a rimless tank.
> 
> http://www.hagen.com/canada/english/aquatic/product.cfm?CAT=1&SUBCAT=111&PROD_ID=01132450011001
> 
> ...


Awesome, thanks! I hope I can find it.


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## Sagittarius-Aquarius (Oct 30, 2009)

I'd recommend not going with the "inch of fish per gallon" rule, it seems a bit basic. That is similar to saying a royal python produces the same amount of waste as a 5' tall man, obviously a little more accurate though. If you wanted to check stocking and filtration, I'd go with aqadvisor: www.aqadvisor.com.

Just enter your tank size and filter, and then enter the fish you'd like to add. Obviously there's a bit of wiggle room if you have a planted tank, but I find this calculator very useful.

From what you've said, your stocking level is just around 60% so you aren't overstocked at all. The filter you selected initially, if it works well and is fully operational, is more than adequate.


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## bumbleboo (Jun 6, 2010)

Sagittarius-Aquarius said:


> I'd recommend not going with the "inch of fish per gallon" rule, it seems a bit basic. That is similar to saying a royal python produces the same amount of waste as a 5' tall man, obviously a little more accurate though. If you wanted to check stocking and filtration, I'd go with aqadvisor: www.aqadvisor.com.
> 
> Just enter your tank size and filter, and then enter the fish you'd like to add. Obviously there's a bit of wiggle room if you have a planted tank, but I find this calculator very useful.
> 
> From what you've said, your stocking level is just around 60% so you aren't overstocked at all. The filter you selected initially, if it works well and is fully operational, is more than adequate.


Okay, sure! I actually have a 25 gallon long, instead of a 20 gallon. So maybe I can find something that works! I am going to use that calculator when I get home from work today, thanks!


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## Sagittarius-Aquarius (Oct 30, 2009)

Wow, looking back on my response, it can be taken as being condescending. I'm sorry, Joe. That wasn't meant to insult your advice, it's just that usually with that rule, I find I'm far understocked and can buy more fish, and who doesn't want a bustling community tank?

Also, you're welcome Bumbleboo.


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## bae (May 11, 2007)

Sounds good to me, especially since CPDs and pygmy corys are very small fish, so they're on the good side of the inch-per-gallon rule. That rule is pretty crude, but works for fish < 2". Bioload is more proportional to volume than to length, and doubling the length of a fish increases its volume eight-fold. Nobody sane is going to believe that e.g. an 8" jack dempsey is the same bioload as 8 neon tetras!

You might consider something smaller than rummynoses which may seem a little out of proportion to the CPDs, but your selection will work fine, especially in a planted tank. You may be able to add some more small fish, if the plants are doing well and you keep up the water changes. If you're a beginner, keeping your stocking level low will save you a lot of trouble while you gain experience.

One thing to bear in mind when buying lighting is that tubes of sizes other than 48" or 24" are far more expensive. I'd recommend either buying a 24" 2-tube fixture at Rona or wherever and making you own hood, or getting a hood designed for two incandescent bulbs and putting two 23watt CFLs in it.


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## Joeee (Apr 3, 2010)

Sagittarius-Aquarius said:


> Wow, looking back on my response, it can be taken as being condescending. I'm sorry, Joe. That wasn't meant to insult your advice, it's just that usually with that rule, I find I'm far understocked and can buy more fish, and who doesn't want a bustling community tank?
> 
> Also, you're welcome Bumbleboo.


No need to apologize, I'm not offended at all actually, if you didn't point out that she was only 60% stocked then I'd feel pretty bad when I found out that she wasn't using the remaining 40% because of me.
If anything, feeling insulted for someone bringing better advice and therefore allowing me to further my knowledge of fish and aquaria-related stuff in general is pretty petty of me.


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## bumbleboo (Jun 6, 2010)

bae said:


> Sounds good to me, especially since CPDs and pygmy corys are very small fish, so they're on the good side of the inch-per-gallon rule. That rule is pretty crude, but works for fish < 2". Bioload is more proportional to volume than to length, and doubling the length of a fish increases its volume eight-fold. Nobody sane is going to believe that e.g. an 8" jack dempsey is the same bioload as 8 neon tetras!
> 
> You might consider something smaller than rummynoses which may seem a little out of proportion to the CPDs, but your selection will work fine, especially in a planted tank. You may be able to add some more small fish, if the plants are doing well and you keep up the water changes. If you're a beginner, keeping your stocking level low will save you a lot of trouble while you gain experience.
> 
> One thing to bear in mind when buying lighting is that tubes of sizes other than 48" or 24" are far more expensive. I'd recommend either buying a 24" 2-tube fixture at Rona or wherever and making you own hood, or getting a hood designed for two incandescent bulbs and putting two 23watt CFLs in it.


Good points for sure! Yeah, I tend not to use the 1" per gallon rule as it changes with the girth of the fish.

Oh! You don't think they'll terrorize them, will they? I've read their quite peaceful, but maybe even being a larger fish, it will intimidate the CPDs into hiding? They are quite shy, even with me still... I had my heart quite set on the rummynose, but if it's going to make the CPDs possibly unhappy, maybe they will have to wait for future tank setups. Do you have any other suggestions for tankmates?

Yeah, I think what I'd like to do is keep it a little low, until I've gained more experience (I just started fishkeeping in January this year). I'd rather have an understocked tank than a tank full of unhappy/unhealthy/dead fish! I do keep up with water changes (since I actually love doing it), so that at least, shouldn't be a problem! 

Thanks for the tips with the lighting! The tank I got from Philip.Chan.92 has two fixtures for incandescents, so I can use the CFLs in it. 

Thanks for your reply!!


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## bumbleboo (Jun 6, 2010)

Hmm... so the AqAdvisor site says my filtration capacity would be at 221% and my stocking level at 63% if I had the following:

x6 CPDs (I'm considering maybe just getting a couple more... but it might be neat if they bred!)
x10 Pygmy Cories (I decided to go with a few more, cause i think they're ADORABLE).
x5 Rummynose Tetra

I think I am going to upgrade my filter to an Aquaclear 50, right now its an Aquatech 10-20, but I think I'll buy the Aquaclear before I set the tank up... seems it might have better filtration. 

But if I can't have the Rummynose Tetras, I wonder what fish would be good in their place? I really like them but I don't want them to stress out the smaller guys. Would harlequin rasboras work? Basically any fish that is under 2"? Anyone have any ideas or suggestions? I'd love to hear them!

Also, I've never seen Pygmy Cories at my Big Al's, anyone know where to find them?

Thanks!


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## Joeee (Apr 3, 2010)

I've always LOVED neon tetras because of their three colours. Cardinals are a bit more dull, but funner to breed.


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## BillD (Jun 5, 2006)

A 20 long is a nice tank, but if you are going for that, I think it is easier to find a 25, which is about the same footprint, with a little more depth. 25s are easier to find, and a 30 is the same footprint also. I have a 25 going right now with 2 13 watt 5000K CFs and there is lots of light. You can inexpensively make a light with a 2 tube flourescent fixture and a length of white vinyl eavestrough. The fixture can be placed inside and with end caps looks like a finished product. The outside can be painted black to match the tank frame. 
I like the 20 I have (Miracles brand, picked up for $2 with glass lids) but the shallownes makes it difficult to run ATI Hydrosponges


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## bumbleboo (Jun 6, 2010)

Joeee said:


> I've always LOVED neon tetras because of their three colours. Cardinals are a bit more dull, but funner to breed.


They are nice! I am considering getting them in place of the rummynose, but I feel like they might not go with the "colour scheme". Hah! I'm so weird...



BillD said:


> A 20 long is a nice tank, but if you are going for that, I think it is easier to find a 25, which is about the same footprint, with a little more depth. 25s are easier to find, and a 30 is the same footprint also. I have a 25 going right now with 2 13 watt 5000K CFs and there is lots of light. You can inexpensively make a light with a 2 tube flourescent fixture and a length of white vinyl eavestrough. The fixture can be placed inside and with end caps looks like a finished product. The outside can be painted black to match the tank frame.
> I like the 20 I have (Miracles brand, picked up for $2 with glass lids) but the shallownes makes it difficult to run ATI Hydrosponges


Oh yes! I actually got a 25 gallon long, thanks for all the info too!


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## Joeee (Apr 3, 2010)

Rummynose seem to be anywhere though, I don't think you'll have a problem finding them.


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## bumbleboo (Jun 6, 2010)

Joeee said:


> Rummynose seem to be anywhere though, I don't think you'll have a problem finding them.


Oh yeah, they are everywhere!  bae just mentioned that they might not be a good tankmate for the smaller fishies. Being a newbie, I'm not 100% sure why, but maybe he'll reply again and let me know!


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## Sagittarius-Aquarius (Oct 30, 2009)

I think he just said that because they grow to be a good deal bigger than neons and CPDs, and this may cause some unrest. In my experience, they're pretty peaceful though.


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## bumbleboo (Jun 6, 2010)

Sagittarius-Aquarius said:


> I think he just said that because they grow to be a good deal bigger than neons and CPDs, and this may cause some unrest. In my experience, they're pretty peaceful though.


That makes sense.  Well, I wonder if there are any other species people have had good experiences with? I'm thinking of maybe bumping the CPD numbers up to 12 or something, then having 10 cories... According to the AqAdvisor with the 5 rummynose, that's still only stocked at 69% (I'll consider more in the high 70 to low 80s percentage wise, just in case...).

I wonder if the smaller fish would feel more secure in larger numbers compared to the 2" rummynoses.

I'm starting to consider neons as well, but I just have such a soft spot for those rummynose drunkards.


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## bumbleboo (Jun 6, 2010)

In a 25 gallon long, with an Aquaclear 50, AqAdvisor says filtration is at 183% with stocking level at 71% with the following:

x12 Celestial Pearl Danio
x7 Pygmy Cory
x10 Neon tetra
x1 Zebra Nerite Snail

I think this combination might be cool! 

I should rule out the rummynose and get them for future tanks I suppose, how do you guys think this combination would work? I just want to make sure I get this right... is there anything I should change?

Thank you!


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## Sagittarius-Aquarius (Oct 30, 2009)

I think the combination is good. They are all fairly peaceful community species, and they're pretty to look at too.

I can see why you decided against rummynose, but it must've been a tough decision. I love those little buggers.


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## bumbleboo (Jun 6, 2010)

Sagittarius-Aquarius said:


> I think the combination is good. They are all fairly peaceful community species, and they're pretty to look at too.
> 
> I can see why you decided against rummynose, but it must've been a tough decision. I love those little buggers.


I'm thinking of switching out the neons and going with the rummynose... I hope I won't be making a mistake!

Let me know if you think I should do otherwise.


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## Joeee (Apr 3, 2010)

bumbleboo said:


> I'm thinking of switching out the neons and going with the rummynose... I hope I won't be making a mistake!
> 
> Let me know if you think I should do otherwise.


You know you could just go with a bigger tank and get both.


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## bumbleboo (Jun 6, 2010)

Joeee said:


> You know you could just go with a bigger tank and get both.


That's true! But I just bought a 25 gallon for this purpose, and I can't afford to get another right now. Plus, I promised my roommate this was the last. And I'm broke at the moment ahahaha.


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## AquaNekoMobile (Feb 26, 2010)

bumbleboo said:


> That's true! But I just bought a 25 gallon for this purpose, and I can't afford to get another right now. Plus, I promised my roommate this was the last. And I'm broke at the moment ahahaha.


Go vertical! 2-tier stands all around  Hehe.. space saving. Or find some 3-4 tier stands  Nyhahaha!!

BTW have you considered shrimp like easy to keep Red Cherry Shrimp for the ground cover and/or a couple amano shrimp in there? Helps with the algae as well.


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## AquaNekoMobile (Feb 26, 2010)

If you're crafty here is a step by step DIY here you can do yourself and save a lot and also have the flexiblity of more or less light if you want.






 Widen the spread of light by reducing the curve of the reflector or get another two reflectors and crew them together on the edges of the first one. It'll be a taller light but more reflective area.


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## bumbleboo (Jun 6, 2010)

AquaNekoMobile said:


> Go vertical! 2-tier stands all around  Hehe.. space saving. Or find some 3-4 tier stands  Nyhahaha!!
> 
> BTW have you considered shrimp like easy to keep Red Cherry Shrimp for the ground cover and/or a couple amano shrimp in there? Helps with the algae as well.


Haha! Well, being a college student I think even having 4 tanks is going to push my budget a little bit, cause I have other pets too.

I would however, like to get some cherry shrimp, though they're very expensive at BA's (3.99 a piece!) so I'm going to have to shop around a bit.



AquaNekoMobile said:


> If you're crafty here is a step by step DIY here you can do yourself and save a lot and also have the flexiblity of more or less light if you want.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That looks really cool! Thanks for the link.


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## AquaNekoMobile (Feb 26, 2010)

bumbleboo said:


> Haha! Well, being a college student I think even having 4 tanks is going to push my budget a little bit, cause I have other pets too.
> 
> I would however, like to get some cherry shrimp, though they're very expensive at BA's (3.99 a piece!) so I'm going to have to shop around a bit.
> 
> That looks really cool! Thanks for the link.


Well I'm trying to breed a bit of shrimpage myself then share the love back to the community here as I've gotten some stuff for free before and just giving some stuff free back so others can learn as well and keep costs down.

If I breed up a bit I'm more then happy to give you some. I have a little j.moss here if you'd like but it's small bits which with patience can grow large.

You should look into acquiring the tanks for free then dropping the coinage on the tanks. Well one huge up side of buying new or good used tanks is they often don't need much clean up and are not really scratched but I've found free tanks to be pretty good as some of them are hardly scratched.

Gah at $4/piece for RCS you may as well get Crystal Red Shrimp (CRS) but they are more sensitive pending the grade you get. For that price you can get A or S grade CRS from a local hobbyist or free/cheap for RCS.


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## bumbleboo (Jun 6, 2010)

AquaNekoMobile said:


> Well I'm trying to breed a bit of shrimpage myself then share the love back to the community here as I've gotten some stuff for free before and just giving some stuff free back so others can learn as well and keep costs down.
> 
> If I breed up a bit I'm more then happy to give you some. I have a little j.moss here if you'd like but it's small bits which with patience can grow large.
> 
> ...


Hey thanks! That'd be cool. I have some plants if you'd want to do a trade, just let me know I guess! I don't know if I really have anything you'd want but maybe!

I actually have a lot of Java Moss already, but thanks! 

Yes, this is true. I think I'm okay with just 4 tanks for now though. 

Yeah... definitely! Are RCS good algae cleaners though?


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## AquaNekoMobile (Feb 26, 2010)

bumbleboo said:


> Hey thanks! That'd be cool. I have some plants if you'd want to do a trade, just let me know I guess! I don't know if I really have anything you'd want but maybe!
> 
> I actually have a lot of Java Moss already, but thanks!
> 
> ...


I only had mine for a short time till one night when I checked my tank at an odd hour when the ligths are off and found my zebra danios picking them apart. >__<; No wonder I could not find any bodies when I thoguht they're hiding cause the zebras got all nom nom on them.

Well RCS do thier part in algae cleaning and are very very low bioload. IIRC amano shrimp do a better job but RCS have the red color for visual appeal. Each lgae eater does their part but I don't think there is one single algae eater out there that can do it all perfectly. Amanos from ym research also attack black bread algae which very few aquapets touch.

I did a check on the Aqadvisor on a 10gal w/Aquaclear20 with 6 x CPD, 6 x pygmy cory, 10 RCS, 2 amano shrimp, and 2 zebra nerite snails and it came to something like 83% stocking and 23% water change a week with full compatiblity on that listing.


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## bumbleboo (Jun 6, 2010)

AquaNekoMobile said:


> I only had mine for a short time till one night when I checked my tank at an odd hour when the ligths are off and found my zebra danios picking them apart. >__<; No wonder I could not find any bodies when I thoguht they're hiding cause the zebras got all nom nom on them.
> 
> Well RCS do thier part in algae cleaning and are very very low bioload. IIRC amano shrimp do a better job but RCS have the red color for visual appeal. Each lgae eater does their part but I don't think there is one single algae eater out there that can do it all perfectly. Amanos from ym research also attack black bread algae which very few aquapets touch.
> 
> I did a check on the Aqadvisor on a 10gal w/Aquaclear20 with 6 x CPD, 6 x pygmy cory, 10 RCS, 2 amano shrimp, and 2 zebra nerite snails and it came to something like 83% stocking and 23% water change a week with full compatiblity on that listing.


Aww, I'm sorry to hear that. 

Yeah, I heard Amanos are pretty good! I was considering getting some but they are also expensive at 2.99 a piece.

Very nice! I think that I am going to take all the fish currently in my 10 gal and move them to the 25, and then I might dedicate the 10 gallon to a plant propagation and shrimp tank... but I wonder if it'd be better to have a few fish in there to fertilize the plants?


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## AquaNeko (Jul 26, 2009)

bumbleboo said:


> Aww, I'm sorry to hear that.
> 
> Yeah, I heard Amanos are pretty good! I was considering getting some but they are also expensive at 2.99 a piece.
> 
> Very nice! I think that I am going to take all the fish currently in my 10 gal and move them to the 25, and then I might dedicate the 10 gallon to a plant propagation and shrimp tank... but I wonder if it'd be better to have a few fish in there to fertilize the plants?


According to here ( http://www.theaquariumwiki.com/Amano_shrimp ) to breed them saltwater for the fry are needed and gradually shift the water to freshwater. A bit of work needed there. May be worth $2.99 or wait for a sale and get a few and combine with other cleanup crews. RCS will breed easy so if you spot and RCS with an egg sack get a few of those and you should have new stock in about 1-2 months time.


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## bumbleboo (Jun 6, 2010)

AquaNeko said:


> According to here ( http://www.theaquariumwiki.com/Amano_shrimp ) to breed them saltwater for the fry are needed and gradually shift the water to freshwater. A bit of work needed there. May be worth $2.99 or wait for a sale and get a few and combine with other cleanup crews. RCS will breed easy so if you spot and RCS with an egg sack get a few of those and you should have new stock in about 1-2 months time.


Yeah, I read about breeding amanos and they do seem a bit harder, but I think I might try to find some cherry shrimp instead!


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## AquaNeko (Jul 26, 2009)

bumbleboo said:


> Yeah, I read about breeding amanos and they do seem a bit harder, but I think I might try to find some cherry shrimp instead!


If you plan on breeding RCS you might want to get a small say 5.5gal tank and tuck it in the corner or under the desk or something somewhere and put some shrimp in there for them to do thier thing over time and extract the larger adults to put in your main tank. If you keep the RCS and plan to breed them in the main tank you run a good risk of losing a lot of them as the other fish will have nom noms on them.


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## bumbleboo (Jun 6, 2010)

AquaNeko said:


> If you plan on breeding RCS you might want to get a small say 5.5gal tank and tuck it in the corner or under the desk or something somewhere and put some shrimp in there for them to do thier thing over time and extract the larger adults to put in your main tank. If you keep the RCS and plan to breed them in the main tank you run a good risk of losing a lot of them as the other fish will have nom noms on them.


Okay, thanks! I'll consider it.


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