# Unsure How to Raise PH.



## Dienah (Jul 2, 2010)

So I'm a little new when it comes to PH, or KH (if that's even what it's called), and so on and so forth. I honestly didn't know it really mattered in a tank.

But just had my PH checked in my tank and it's incredibly low!! A flat. 6.0, heck, it might be even lower than that if it's possible lmao.

I got a tank full of goldfish, and been doing some research that goldfish shouldn't be in such low PH as it will cause death (which hasn't occured ...) So wanted to ask if anyone had tips on how to increase your PH? The bf says it's my bogwood (sp?) that's lowered my PH, I also got two pieces of driftwood and do water changes every Wednesday (40% -50%. my goldfish have a considerable amount of waste).

Any help would be great!! And if my research is even correct about goldfish not doing so great in low PH.


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## waj8 (Jun 30, 2010)

Is your tap water such a low pH? How are you testing the pH? What is the KH of your tap water? Are you adding anything else besides water to your tank. Are you using rainwater or RO water?


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## gucci17 (Oct 11, 2007)

What test kit are you using? I doubt it's accurate. That's really low.
Driftwood can drop the ph a little but to bring it down to below 6 is too much. I'd say it's not just goldfish who wouldn't do well in ph6 or less, most fish in general.

There's ways to buffer your water with aragonite, crushed coral or limestone. It may help raise the ph.


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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

Almost the entire GTA uses water drawn from Lake Ontario. They all should be around 7.4 - 7.8 pH range. (If your local water guy is doing his job right). Some location may vary (broken pipes and such), but it should always in that range. If you are using well water, then it would be 7.8 - 8.2 pH. So I don't think it's the tap water unless you hit a dead end.
From what you describe, it's most likely the bog wood that have been lowering your pH. Good set up though, most people wish they have your kind of pH water. But you are right, gold fish will do better at 7.2 pH.

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## BillD (Jun 5, 2006)

I would have to agree that if you are using Lake Ontario tap water, your pH test must be off. It comes out of the tap at around 7.6 and has a medium hardness. With your weekly water change regimen, I can't see how it would get so low, even with wood in the tank. Quite frankly, I wouldn't be concerned, and just keep doing what you are doing.


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## arc (Mar 11, 2010)

Will have to agree with everyone here, your test kit must be wrong. You will have to get another test kit or have the LFS test it for you. Your boyfriend should have a test kit as well.

You should test your tap water as well to confirm. The only way you could have a ph that low is if you have a water filter(RODI?)/softer built in to you house and even then I don't think it can go that low.

Let us know what you figure out as a lot of shrimp keepers would want that kind of water.


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## coldmantis (Apr 5, 2010)

I have done the test for her many times >10 it's always dead on 6.0, the only thing I can think of is that I asked my dad to bring home some big flat river stones but instead he brings home some big round boulders... I tossed it in her tank, she recently around less then a month ago bought some driftwood that don't look like the normal drift wood from big al's, it's kind of more light brown then the normal ones I seen, and that's it. I have both ADA Amazonia I and II and I can't even get close to that kind of ph for my CRS so I'm jeaulous too. This is an old house so it's copper plumping and no R/O. I'm tempted to take her water and dump it into my tank lol


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## Greg_o (Mar 4, 2010)

Have you tested the water straight from the tap?


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## Dienah (Jul 2, 2010)

Yes, we have. The PH always comes out at 7.6 lol.


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## arc (Mar 11, 2010)

I still believe it's something with the test kit but if you have confirmed the readings and the tap water reading is what it should be then wow, that's an amazing drop in ph.

If you have a GH/KH test kit, testing the water from the tap and tank water will give an idea of whats happening. Some kind of acid should be eating through the GH/KH.

You can test the items you mentioned by putting some of the rocks and wood into separate containers with tap water and testing in 12/24 intervals. Set up a third container with just tap water as the control group. It doesn't have to be much, a few liters each will do fine. 

I've heard that rotting driftwood can drop PH a lot but never seen it. I imagine the ammonia and nitrite spike from the rot would be more of an issue. You can test for those if you haven't already. If it does turn out to be the driftwood, you can use it to age water for shrimp tanks.


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## ppaskova (Apr 27, 2010)

Simple answer to your question is to add very little baking soda to race PH in your tank. I've done it with my 1Gl tank where PH was 5.5 for some reason. Also good idea to check your filter as dirty filter can lower your PH as well.


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## Dienah (Jul 2, 2010)

arc said:


> I still believe it's something with the test kit but if you have confirmed the readings and the tap water reading is what it should be then wow, that's an amazing drop in ph.
> 
> If you have a GH/KH test kit, testing the water from the tap and tank water will give an idea of whats happening. Some kind of acid should be eating through the GH/KH.
> 
> ...


Yeah I was kinda thinking of doing the same, the whole bucket and seperate testing stuff.

Personally, the testing could be inaccurate, but I doubt it on a small level haha. The bf always uses it and our tanks are always completely different when it comes to PH, KH, etc etc. But then again, I'm new to this stuff ... what do I know?? rotfl



ppaskova said:


> Simple answer to your question is to add very little baking soda to race PH in your tank. I've done it with my 1Gl tank where PH was 5.5 for some reason. Also good idea to check your filter as dirty filter can lower your PH as well.


Would baking soda be safe in a tank?? Never actually heard of that method before.

And oh yeah, my filter, I clean out thoroughly since a lot of waste always gets sucked up. When I mean clean out thoroughly, it's exactly what you think. Taking it apart one by one haha.


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## ppaskova (Apr 27, 2010)

Dienah said:


> Would baking soda be safe in a tank?? Never actually heard of that method before.
> 
> And oh yeah, my filter, I clean out thoroughly since a lot of waste always gets sucked up. When I mean clean out thoroughly, it's exactly what you think. Taking it apart one by one haha.


Yes it safe for your tank (just a little, not the whole box ;-))
What filter do you have ? Some parts of some filters like Aqua Clear is not recommended to clean under tab watter but to use aquarium watter (the one usually just changed) to clean. In this case you don't kill bacteria that your filter is collected.


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## Lee_D (Jun 11, 2010)

How old is the wood? It takes ALOT of acid to drop lake ontario water to pH 6. If it was coming from the wood over the course of a week my guess is the water would be pretty badly discoloured. Is it clear or brown?

What fish food are you using? Any chance that is acidic?

Lee


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## Dienah (Jul 2, 2010)

ppaskova said:


> Yes it safe for your tank (just a little, not the whole box ;-))
> What filter do you have ? Some parts of some filters like Aqua Clear is not recommended to clean under tab watter but to use aquarium watter (the one usually just changed) to clean. In this case you don't kill bacteria that your filter is collected.


LOLLL little as in like ... a tsp??

The filters I have is a AC 500 and a 70. When I clean it, I never ever use tap water, always the tank water.



Lee_D said:


> How old is the wood? It takes ALOT of acid to drop lake ontario water to pH 6. If it was coming from the wood over the course of a week my guess is the water would be pretty badly discoloured. Is it clear or brown?
> 
> What fish food are you using? Any chance that is acidic?
> 
> Lee


Well I have 2 pieces of driftwood, and this other thing ... Bogwood I think? lmao. All three are not any more than a year, less than 6 months.

And noppers, my tank is always crystal clear, never brown. I always soak my wood for a good day with a few drops of Prime before putting it in my tank.

Here's a pic of the food I use, though not sure if it's 'Acidic' how would you even know if it is?? lol:


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## Angelic (Sep 13, 2010)

I`m really shocked that your water dropped so dramatically =o How long ago did you add the driftwood? I know it cant be the tap water since gta tap water is usually are 7.4 or so


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## Dienah (Jul 2, 2010)

LOL yeah, a lot of people seem to be showing their shared amount of shock on this thread about my water.

But just like I said, all my wood in my tank has been there for under 6 months. Just bought all of them recently from Big Al's.


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## ppaskova (Apr 27, 2010)

How big is your fish tank (according to your filters 45-75Gl)? Also how big is a drift wood in your tank ? I have drift wood in my tank (two small peaces) which I put first in 45GL tank with two AC50 filters for a week and after it stop coloring the watter I put it my 10Gl tank, which is there right now for 3 weeks and it did not alter my PH. It's still 7. The only downside I had, I lost 3 RCS almost right away after I installed drift wood. So I don't think Driftwood will alter your PH. What watter conditioner (if any) do you use when you change the watter ? I use Prime and I know it adjusts PH to 7. I also seen other watter conditioners that adjust PH as well.


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## Dienah (Jul 2, 2010)

ppaskova said:


> How big is your fish tank (according to your filters 45-75Gl)? Also how big is a drift wood in your tank ? I have drift wood in my tank (two small peaces) which I put first in 45GL tank with two AC50 filters for a week and after it stop coloring the watter I put it my 10Gl tank, which is there right now for 3 weeks and it did not alter my PH. It's still 7. The only downside I had, I lost 3 RCS almost right away after I installed drift wood. So I don't think Driftwood will alter your PH. What watter conditioner (if any) do you use when you change the watter ? I use Prime and I know it adjusts PH to 7. I also seen other watter conditioners that adjust PH as well.


My fish tank is only a 29g, with quite a few large goldfish ... unless overstocking causes low PH lmao but that just wouldn't make sense.

I got one driftwood that's only like 10 inches or so, and a more larger one that's roughly half a meter (50 cm).

And you lost shrimp after the driftwood?? Did you soak it?? I usually soak my wood, after I sand it down (which is needed because i have many visually impaired fish), throw it in a bucket with a couple drops of Prime and leave it overnight.

My water conditioner is Prime lmao.


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## ppaskova (Apr 27, 2010)

Dienah said:


> My fish tank is only a 29g, with quite a few large goldfish ... unless overstocking causes low PH lmao but that just wouldn't make sense.
> 
> I got one driftwood that's only like 10 inches or so, and a more larger one that's roughly half a meter (50 cm).
> 
> ...


No it should not. My 10 gl is way overstocked according to this forum. But if you have good filtration, it should not matter. I socked my driftwood for a week in backed with the tab watter with 24hrs watter changes, after put into my friends 45Gl for a week and after sock it again for a week in the backed with 24hrs watter changes and after put in my 10Gl. It 2 small peaces there one 2x2 and one 3x3. I was loosing RCS and CRS before but after installing driftwood I lost a few at the short time. May be it was not due to driftwood but something else. So far it stable and did not loose any.


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## bae (May 11, 2007)

Dienah said:


> My fish tank is only a 29g, with quite a few large goldfish ... unless overstocking causes low PH lmao but that just wouldn't make sense.


Bingo. That's a huge bioload. And yes, overstocking does cause pH drops.

Have you tested your nitrates? My guess is that this is sky-high, which would explain the low pH. Goldfish can survive higher nitrates than most fish, but it still isn't good for them.

IIRC, the recommended stocking level for medium size goldfish is ten gallons per fish. 30 gallons each wouldn't be excessive for large adult goldfish.

You can step up your water changes, but even a continuous flow-through system might not be enough. Some crushed limestone or other limey material with a lot of surface area may help with the pH swings but it's the nitrates and other poluutants that are the real problem here.

Let us know what your nitrate level is before and after a water change. Ideally, nitrates shouldn't rise above 20ppm, and 10ppm is better. I wouldn't be surprised if your nitrates are several hundred ppm. Since the kit only goes up to 80ppm or so, if you want the numbers for a higher level, you can dilute a sample by a measured amount, retest, and multiply.


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

Dienah said:


> My fish tank is only a 29g, with quite a few large goldfish ... unless overstocking causes low PH lmao but that just wouldn't make sense.


Overstocking definitely would cause low pH. Biological wastes are acidic and having too much biological waste being produced from overstocking could cause a pH crash.

I've had a pH crash happen to me when my tank was still cycling. It stabilized after a few days, but my tank wasn't overstocked. Is your tank planted? Having lots of plants would help process the wastes.


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## Dienah (Jul 2, 2010)

Okay actually, I think I got everything solved. I did seperate buckets of my wood and rocks that's in my tank, tested them for a couple of hours and I believe that's what's raising my PH. 

Because I did a quick water change without the wood and rocks and my PH seems to be back to normal.

As far as it goes for the overstocking, I've never had a problem with my tank and my goldfish as I think my weekly 50% water changes tend to be enough. I never had a PH, Nitrate etc problem with my tank. 

But thanks everyone!! =D


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## arc (Mar 11, 2010)

> Okay actually, I think I got everything solved. I did seperate buckets of my wood and rocks that's in my tank, tested them for a couple of hours and I believe that's what's raising my PH.


raising or lowering?

what was the results of the bucket ph's?


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## coldmantis (Apr 5, 2010)

Oh crap lowering lmao sorry haha xD

For the bucket tests, the wood was just regular PH - 7.8ish ...
Rocks were a 6.

I should've just done the simple bucket tests before posting this thread rotfl xD


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## coldmantis (Apr 5, 2010)

Aw crap, sorry. Just realized I posted on my bf's account haha. Another mess up .... I'm just a bucket of fail today.


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## waj8 (Jun 30, 2010)

Those are really odd rocks. They are chemically active and probably contain something such as Sulfur or Phosphate. Things that can form acid and destroy carbonate. Where did they come from? I don't think you ever said what the KH was. I wonder if there is any carbonate left in your tank at all.


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## Dienah (Jul 2, 2010)

Not sure where they came from ... my bf's dad just came home with them for decorations for our tanks. I took em all and used it for my tank, and after that my PH dropped haha 

And ... I don't even know if I have a KH tester, I'll check in with that later rotfl xD


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## AquaNekoMobile (Feb 26, 2010)

I dabble in aquaponics and in mini/small aquaponic setups goldfish are normally used because we want as much bioload as possible and goldies are known for that. 

In my research on aquaponics and also for DIY natural home solutions I've found that the following can pH up or pH down a system. 

Vinegar = pH down
Baking Soda = pH up

Originally I was habing high pH last year so I used the 1tsp vinegar a day to bring down the pH before I learned of driftwood and it acting as a slight pH down buffer. Others have used a bit of baking soda to raise thier pH. What they did was test thier tap water from the tap to know what the pH was then test thier tank pH. They then mixed baking soda into thier water change water to the pH they wanted then water change 10% every other day to slowly change the pH. I would avoid rapid pH up or pH down when changing the pH of your tank.

BTW how many goldies do you have in that 29gal?


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## bettaforu (Sep 6, 2009)

If you want to up your PH just put Lava rocks in the tank. Those are those red pitted ones that you find at Big Als...they raise PH. I keep them in my Sulawesi tanks because of that.

Can't put them anywhere near the crystal tank or the PH goes off the scale!


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## Dienah (Jul 2, 2010)

AquaNekoMobile said:


> I dabble in aquaponics and in mini/small aquaponic setups goldfish are normally used because we want as much bioload as possible and goldies are known for that.
> 
> In my research on aquaponics and also for DIY natural home solutions I've found that the following can pH up or pH down a system.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I'm a little iffy about rapid PH raise. I know this is a n00bish question ... but would it harm the fish if the PH raised up too fast??

And I have about umm ... lemme count, 9 fish in my 29 haha. But I'm actually going to be buying a new tank at the Big Al's Midnight Madness



bettaforu said:


> If you want to up your PH just put Lava rocks in the tank. Those are those red pitted ones that you find at Big Als...they raise PH. I keep them in my Sulawesi tanks because of that.
> 
> Can't put them anywhere near the crystal tank or the PH goes off the scale!


I don't believe I've ever seen the Lava Rocks (maybe i have i just can't recall) Just incase, do they happen to have any sharp edges?? Or are they smooth?? Just gotta take precautions for my fish rotfl.



Fear Holmes said:


> Use java.lang.Math.pow(double num, double exponent).


Wow, that just confused the heck outta me!!


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## AquaNekoMobile (Feb 26, 2010)

Dienah said:


> Yeah, I'm a little iffy about rapid PH raise. I know this is a n00bish question ... but would it harm the fish if the PH raised up too fast??
> 
> And I have about umm ... lemme count, 9 fish in my 29 haha. But I'm actually going to be buying a new tank at the Big Al's Midnight Madness
> 
> ...


It would stress the fish out and possibly shock it from a rapid pH up/down. The stress AFAIK can cause the fish to IIRC be more susceptable to diesase. If you really want to play it safe and slow then use 1/2 teaspoon baking soda mixed in some declorinated water and pour it into the tank. Such a small amount will mix up with the filters water circulation. Very other day just add it again. You've got 29gals and that's a large buffer of water and that is a small amount of pH up change that fish can slowly adjust to. Probably take you 1-2 weeks to slowly get the pH you want that way and the goldies will have ample time to adjust. That's just from my experience.


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## BettaBeats (Jan 14, 2010)

rapid pH shifts can wipe out stock. I've had it happen but I'm a micro-fish kind of guy. So the changes in 10 gal of water happen faster than in a larger volume of water.
But if you think about it, acclimating fish takes 20min-1 hour, and that could be considered fairly rapid pH change, but its about doing it properly and controlled. When you set up your new tank and it is cycled, just acclimate the fish.

Just find a way to get your parameters in balance and try to maintain them. This will make your fish happy. A little maintenance and upkeep can go a long way.
Baking soda can be dilluted with water changes. Something like crushed coral in a nylon sac would work. it will gradually wear down.

I think if you remove the rocks that were testing at 6.0 you should be fine. I have the opposite problem. I have african cichlid gravel (by accident) in my 10 gal that keeps the water at 8.0pH. It doesn't ever shift. So maybe the same thing can happen with rocks lowering the pH.


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## Dienah (Jul 2, 2010)

Cool! Thanks guys for your input!!

I may just dry the whole baking soda method! I'll post further more if anything goes wrong!!


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## BettaBeats (Jan 14, 2010)

Dienah said:


> Cool! Thanks guys for your input!!
> 
> I may just dry the whole baking soda method! I'll post further more if anything goes wrong!!


google around, because there are measurements out there that will tell you how much your pH will raise depending on how much baking soda you put in. It's simple, but it will help you judge how to go about this method.


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## AquaNekoMobile (Feb 26, 2010)

BettaBeats said:


> google around, because there are measurements out there that will tell you how much your pH will raise depending on how much baking soda you put in. It's simple, but it will help you judge how to go about this method.


Dienah,

http://www.dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/calKH.asp

Not sure where you are in the city as you did not post your area but I have 1gal jugs here (a few and always getting more) that I use for holding my Prime'ed declorinated tap water. Being 1gal makes math easy when you've got a 10gal tank.  2 jugs = 20% WC. I could give you some 1gal jugs to help you with the baking soda mixing if you want. I have new jugs and aged (ones I've been using for WC for a year) if you want. The origin of the jugs is that they used to house soy drink in food grade plastic. Anything food grade that is safe for humans is pretty much safe for fish. If you want it PM me and your preference of aged or new. The new ones need to be rinsed and washed then sterlized with bleach tho. That is what I did with my aged ones then dosed it with 4x Prime after I cleaned it with 1:20 bleach ratio.

BTW that bubble eye goldie. Is that photoshopped or is that the actual fish?  Looks like the fish is spotting macro lenses.


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## Dienah (Jul 2, 2010)

AquaNekoMobile said:


> Dienah,
> 
> http://www.dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/calKH.asp
> 
> ...


Thanks for the link!

And wow!! That's a lot of info to take in!! haha I was just gonna do a simple sprinkle of the baking soda for now, and see how that turns out. If it does it's job (as nothing seems to be), I might get all hardcore ... jugs and all  I'll be sure to PM you if I need it!!!!

LMAO, Bubble Eye?? I think you mean ... the Celestial eye?? I could be wrong, the one on the farthest right?? That's actually my own Celestial eye, a picture I actually submitted into the Big Al's photo contest, but didn't win


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## coldmantis (Apr 5, 2010)

New Tank new substrate new filter, start over and ph will be fix, I'll watch you as you set it up , also sig test


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

I wouldn't discount bae's suggestion either. I'm in agreement regarding your tank being very overstocked. Goldfish are messy and need more volume and filtration.


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