# How Many is Too Many??



## thea2003 (Mar 21, 2011)

I have never had a planted tank and I am wondering if the amount of fish you are able to keep is affected by how heavily planted the tank is?

My current lan in the making is to have the front half of my tank " carpeted" with a low growing plant- I still haven't decided what but am thinking about blyxa, riccia(sp?), saggitaria, or h.c. cuba( I think that's what its called, I have the names written down). Then for the bac half of the tank I want to do some moss trees and some taller growing plants. 
I currently have a 29G with no plans of upgrading anytime in the future. I don't have any plants in it right now but have eco- complete substrate. My fish consist of 10 guppies, three toonie sized angels, one platy, and 2 plecos. Ideally I would like more guppies and I am just letting nature take its course and may buy 2 or 3 more adults. I would also like to add 2 or 3 more platies, as well, I would like some nice bottom feeders, like 3 .or 4 corydoras and a decent school cardinal tetras- like 6. Would that be WAY too many?
Thanks for your Input.


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## qwerty (Dec 15, 2009)

Characteristics and growth of different fish species is one area I should really take some time to read up on and learn more about. In other words I can't say for sure, but I would imagine your stock should be alright provided the angels and plecos wont grow too big.

I can say that having a lot of fast growing plant mass in the tank will increase stability and will allow you more wiggle room to push the limits of your stocking capacity if you wish to do so. It will also benefit the stability of your tank and ensure higher water quality if you wish to stock more conservatively.

However it's still important to have adequate filtration regardless, of course.


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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

Having plants won't help you push your stock level higher. Having plants keeps your fish happy and healthy. Unless you are an expert in underwater plants and can easily balance your fertilizer and light to the point where they will pearl everyday. It would be a mistake to think that you can overstock because you have plants. In fact, having too much plant will result in your fish competing for oxygen during the night.
I am not sure what kind of filter you have, but I think you should keep things to the 1 inch per gallon rules.
I think you only have the option of either corries or platies. If you manage to keep your fish healthy, they will grow fast. Tetras, count as 1/2 inch even if they are 1" in size.
As for the pleco, what kind of plecos are they? If they are the busynose type, then it's fine. If they are a common pleco or sailfin pleco, then your tank is too small. They are probably good for 6 months in your tank before they need a bigger tank. Otherwise, you will stunt the fish and they will slowly waste away.

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## thea2003 (Mar 21, 2011)

Thanks for the responses and sorry for the typos, I'm on my phone. I was actually expecting that I would have to keep *less* fish because the plants would take up space. Frankly, I don't really care for more platies, but I have one lone female left and.I feel bad for her. I don't need the corys, just thought some bottom dwellers would be nice since guppies seem to hang out at the top. The reason I want the tetras is for colour and they hang out in the middle of the tank. I may get my tank all planted and not want to add anything else. Should I wait until I get some plants before I add more fish? Or is the order insignificant? Also the plecos are a variety thay don't grow huge.


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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

No, you don't need to keep less fish either. Just think of it as another level of hobby you can add to your existing fish tank. Although, you will probably have to have the proper light and having the right gravels (Flourite, eco-complete, Fluval) would be great as well. Just make sure to trim your plants regularly so it won't turn into a jungle and you should do well.
Tetra is a good middle-low fish to add to your tank.
There is no specific order to add to your tank.
Good luck.

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## thea2003 (Mar 21, 2011)

For gravel I have eco-complete substrate, I have to get a new bulb for lighting since this one is a little weak. I am aiming for. 2 watts per gallon. I recently (last month) upgraded to a better filtre and better heater. I am planning on doing a low tech tank, I don't want to have to do the co2 thing, but will dose with excel. It will be a couple of weeks before I get any plants, there is only one fish store in my city and their plant selection sucks. That leaves me with big als which is 45 minutes away or online orders. I think I will start with the foreground and work my way back. I need to finish researching my plant selections and see what will work best for me and my level of expertise.


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## Antoine Doinel (Dec 20, 2010)

Where are you located?

You may want to look into nurseries/garden centers, because a lot of times they have aquatic/pond plants, or species that are sold emersed, but can grow submerged.

Big Al's is a complete ripoff when it comes to plants imo. Depending on where you live, there are far better options.


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## thea2003 (Mar 21, 2011)

I am in Orillia, about 40 minutes from Barrie. I will check out nurseries, they should be open soon. Pj's did have three swords for $5 which seemed like a good deal but I didn't see any to buy so that will have to wait.


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## 5318008 (Dec 11, 2010)

Adding plants will actually increase the biomass and amount of waste in your tank instead of decreasing it. Generally, the higher the lighting, the more co2 injected, and the more nutrients added, the higher the level of the plant's metabolism/growth and the more waste plants produce, (hence the required 50% weekly water changes in EI dosing). 

If you want to increase the number of fishes, the most important thing would be to keep on top of your water changes. Another factor would be how established your tank is. An established bacterial colony would allow them to process greater amounts of ammonia and nitrite.


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## qwerty (Dec 15, 2009)

> Generally, the higher the lighting, the more co2 injected, and the more nutrients added, the higher the level of the plant's metabolism/growth and the more waste plants produce, (hence the required 50% weekly water changes in EI dosing).


The purpose of the 50% weekly water change in EI dosing is to limit the peak potential concentration of the fertilizers you're adding to the system, while allowing you to continue dosing large amounts of fertilizer. 50% water changes weekly means that the concentration of fertilizers will never surpass twice the ppm you dose in a week. It has nothing to do with plant waste removal, and it is only a guideline. In fact the KNO3 used in EI dosing provides nitrates and potassium to the plants. This also adds nitrates to the water, which the plants utilize. As we all know, nitrates are the primary nitrogenous waste compound that we worry about in an established tank.

By contrast, there are other guidelines to maintaining high-tech planted tanks which do not recommend any amount of water changes at all. Yet despite this they still include KNO3 in their dosing guidelines.

Fast growing plants are used for water treatment and ecosystem recovery because of their ability to remove waste compounds and to clean water, and the faster they grow, the more they help clean and maintain water quality.

Such is the case in low-tech setups which follow Diana Walstad's guidelines in which the hobbyists aims to run a tank which maintains itself healthily with a high level of stability with only rare water changes and no conventional filters.

Basically, plants don't pee and poo, and are not fouling your water. Unless they are dying and decomposing.


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## mrobson (Mar 5, 2011)

ill second that i have never heard of plants making water worse unless they are decaying and even then certain types of plant matter decaying in a tank can be beneficial if your going for the "black water" look.


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## pat3612 (Jan 29, 2008)

Let me know when you are coming to Barrie I can give you some vals and some cuttings of low light easy plants also have lots of Java moss Pat


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## thea2003 (Mar 21, 2011)

I generally do approx. 20-30% water changes once weekly. I defintely want to keep the tank low tech also my fixture only has one light so its going to be hard to get lots of light so will have to go with low light plants. I think what I will do is leave my fish the way they are and plant my tank and let the plants establish, then I will add a few more fish and see how it goes. I will stay With one inch per gallon for now and hopefully my guppies with populate my tank.


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## mrobson (Mar 5, 2011)

Once your plants are established if you stick to your water changes and run a larger filter you don't have to follow the 1inch rule, just don't go crazy and maybe think about adding a clean up crew


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## tranceaddict (Apr 3, 2011)

basic rule for me is depending on species, ie tetras need about 1inch per gallon, but live breeders who poop soo much more and larger, need about 2-3inches per gallon. now everything depends on if you have panted tank or not. if not then a bigger filter will help, along with more water changes per week.


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## internalfugue (Apr 5, 2011)

qwerty said:


> Such is the case in low-tech setups which follow Diana Walstad's guidelines in which the hobbyists aims to run a tank which maintains itself healthily with a high level of stability with only rare water changes and no conventional filters.


I am looking at different ways I can start my first tank this summer, and I was wondering if anyone would reccomend the Walstad method for beginners. Also, is there a difference between "silent cycling" and Walstad's NPT?
I appreciate any advice


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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

internalfugue said:


> I am looking at different ways I can start my first tank this summer, and I was wondering if anyone would reccomend the Walstad method for beginners. Also, is there a difference between "silent cycling" and Walstad's NPT?
> I appreciate any advice


I don't think the Walstad model would be something for beginners. They are more advance than most people think. Specifically, at the 3rd months to 6 months time frame, your tank can dump massive amounts to nitrate into your tank as the soil fully decomposes. You have to understand what you are putting in your tank inorder to control the amount of releases.

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## internalfugue (Apr 5, 2011)

Haha ok, that doesn't sound like anything I want to deal with. Are live plants in general difficult? I would rather have real plants if I can handle the extra complications.


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