# What would you do?



## ksimdjembe (Nov 11, 2006)

I have recently relocated and then moved some fish out of a planted tank (lots of low cryptocrynes, some larger rear balansae crypts, a little elodea, some phillipine java fern on a driftwood, and some floating frogbit, and I noticed that I have quite a sizeable growth of black beard algae/black brush algae BBA, which seems to grow mostly in/on top of the black eco-complete and the driftwood. 

I have been doing my research of late, to figure out how to get ahead of it, and have come across various suggestions. I figured I would share:
1 - Invest in some SAE (siamese algae eaters, maybe 2) - really the only fish that 'alledgedly' will voraciously consume the BBA. these fish are lovely, and are generally gentle with other fish, but they get large - often 7 inches!
2 - Get some nerite snails to fight the other algaes - not known as eaters of BBA, they are decorative, but are known to lay hard to remove unsightly eggs in the tank. doesn't really help me with BBA.
3 - Dose Excel - possibly as much as 2x or 3x the recommended dose. again 'alledgedly' does not harm fish, shrimp or snails. might remove BBA, but might also trigger crypt-melt/leaf dieoff.
4 - Alternately here instead of Excel, I could also figure out the use of hydrogen peroxide - though, I am not that keen.
5 - Increase the length of time the timer has the lights on... however add a 'siesta' of four hours in the middle of the day - a la diana walstad's idea. apparently works for her, so says her book.
6 - Increase water changes, hope for the best, deal with it.

The tank is 20 gallons, houses limia nigrofasciata, some ottos and some amano shrimp, and a few assasin snails. The water is pretty neutral (occasionally dipping close to pH of 6.8, the water is relatively hard - typical GTA water). I often add some aquarium salt when I do water changes.

What would you do about the BBA?


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

First thing you need to tell us is how long the tank has been set up. A ph of 6.5 with GTA water and eco-complete as substrate is not normal. You may have lots of phosphates in the water, or the tank may still be cycling.



ksimdjembe said:


> 1 - Invest in some SAE (siamese algae eaters, maybe 2) - really the only fish that 'alledgedly' will voraciously consume the BBA. these fish are lovely, and are generally gentle with other fish, but they get large - often 7 inches!


I currently have an SAE in my 20 gallon, and while it might measure 3 inches from head to tail, he seems no bigger than a guppy. You have to keep in mind that SAE are very slender fish. Even the largest SAE I've ever seen would fit easily in a 20 gallon tank.

They also grow slowly. I've had mine for over a year, and it's grown maybe one inch, if that.

I think you only need one.


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## ksimdjembe (Nov 11, 2006)

Tank has been set up for a few years. With Eco-complete, would you expect it to have a lower pH? I think I have higher phosphates; the tank is old.


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

ksimdjembe said:


> Tank has been set up for a few years. With Eco-complete, would you expect it to have a lower pH? I think I have higher phosphates; the tank is old.


Nah, I would expect it to have pH 8. As far as I know, eco complete doesn't lower pH. I think it's likely phosphates then, as phosphate buffers water to a lower pH.

Anyway, I was just concerned that if the tank was new, then you shouldn't get an SAE. I've never had BBA, so I don't know how well an SAE eats that, but you don't have to be concerned about size. Just get a small one.


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## Will (Jul 24, 2008)

Point form yay!
-My SAE have never eaten BBA effectively. Can become aggressive if they are biggest fish intank. Mine grow from 1"-4" in 5ish months.
-Zebra Nerite Snails do eat BBA- though at a to-be-expected "snail's pace"... also prefer Diatoms and Green Spot algae.
-Excel does kill it, especially when your spray the excel directly on it. Don't go overboard on dosing.
-Excel does melt aged crypt leaves. Valisneria is also affected. Rumours say it affects shrimp reproduction, but not adults.
-If you are willing to use Excel but not H2O2 that's a bit silly. You know the chemical in Excel is the same as antifreese?
-Are you injecting CO2? If YES-need to maintain it at a constant level, without fluctuations. If NOT, consider CO2 injection.
-Why do you add aquarium salt? Plants detest it.


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## zfarsh (Apr 7, 2011)

From other members on these boards and meeting them, i have found that the general trend (not all cases), is that a "real" SAE may help when it is young, but normally becomes lazy as they grow up and want your commercial food instead . Also, they can grow to 6 - 7" length. Some say you need a few for them to be happy (unlike the BN Pleco, where one is ok). Now, you need to read compability with other fish /snails for this, as mentioned, may become aggresive (i believe it i read can become aggressive towards its own sub-species). Another common thing is, is that you should not get the SAE or Snails ONLY for the algua problem, as it might not cure it, and then, you are stuck with the fish or have to rehome them (bad for the fish/snails), but you have mentinoed you like it. If you do get it, make sure it is a REAL sae, and not the chineese one which some petshops wrongly label. Google the differences, so you know visually, and maybe get it from Menagerie. The common thing the expert say is to look at the root of the problem and solve it there, ie if too much light or whatever the case. 

Personnaly, i love the look of the SAE and would get it if i had the bioload capacity, but i dont... I have 2 nerite snails, and i love them, but they do make eggs sometimes.

It seems if you can remove the plants / driftwood to treat them in a bucket or something, with excel or hydrogen peroxide (i have used this safely in a tank with goldfish / guppies / plants for netralizing Potassium Permanganate with no adverse effect to the fish, though used very little quantity), then this could be great. Hoping an expert on plants comes and answers this one actually, but my feeling is this will be the top choice. Of course, this is the most time consuming one too....


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## ksimdjembe (Nov 11, 2006)

Thanks for the replies, some interesting and logical reasonings.
The salt is for the limias, which do better with the addition of a little with each water change.


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## ksimdjembe (Nov 11, 2006)

I ended up adding a 'siesta' in the lighting schedule, and reduced feedings for the limias in the 20 gal that was getting the BBA. It seems to have reduced the BBA, though it has been rather slow.... months... 
and, the limias have helped with the control. they snack on it. marginally.


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

Don't know of anything that eats Black Brush, but my nerites eat any brown algae they find with relish. One uplift tube was pretty much full of the stuff and I was going to take it out and clean it, but a nerite got into it when the evaporation got ahead of me and cleaned the whole tube out in just a few days. I don't mind the eggs they lay, I find with a bit of time they pretty much disappear anyway, and only show up on the driftwood when they're new. They don't bother me.. if I get a brackish tank set up I'll try to hatch some, just to see if I can. 

If you can get it, Potassium Permanganate kills many algaes, but you don't treat the tank.. you dip the affected items into a solution in a bucket or such.. don't make it too strong, just pink, not purple. Don't treat any Vals with PP, it will melt them for sure. Not so easy to get, but it is very powerful oxidizer. Then again, so is bleach and Hydrogen peroxide. You could try a bleach dip.. I am unsure of the exact strength to use.. but it's online, I've seen it. Mosses may fade if dipped too long but can also recover once washed off. In any case if you use any of these make sure to rinse and rinse again, so you don't put any of it back in the tank. If you use bleach, rinse it well in water dosed with extra Prime or other dechlorinator and make sure the rinse water tests free of chlorine before returning dipped items to the tank.


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

I recommend excel, ive used it in the past and it worked great. I didnt keep it up enough in all my tanks and some algea has come back and need to buy another bottle to get it under control again.


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