# Re doing my tank..would love some input!



## Jiinx (Apr 5, 2012)

Hi all!!
I love my tank - I've battled through the nitrate cycle and then green algae, green sludge, gross green cloudy water...needless to say, I was ready to give up at one point so this tank means a lot to me now! Since battling through all this, my tank is stable And doing well!

I have a 55 G Marineland bowfront which I want to trade in for a ~ 60 G starfire!! 

I want to do it "right"..meaning, I would love some input on substrate, lighting..

I love having a low tech planted tank, so I want to keep that the same. However, I used white sand blasted gravel with root tablets but after reading fishyfishyfishy's thread on his tank I want to perhaps use soil/substrate.

1) Should I use soil? Or substrate such as fluval stratum? What's the difference? What's less "messier"? Mind you, I've used gravel with root tabs and I've gotten great growth and response so I figure anything "more' in terms of soil would be a bonus! (Am I wrong to think this?)

2) If I use soil/stratum - should I cap with gravel? What's the pros and cons of using gravel on top? It looks pretty good...

3) What type of lights do you use for a rimless/lidless tank? I have a power glo and, I have to say, I'm really happy with it! I've gotten great growth and colour!! It's so cool but when the plants grow towards the top, the top leaves turn red! 

4) Should I mix shrimps and fishes together? I have a pretty boring tank, fish wise - platies, mollies, guppies, galaxy rasboras, cardinal tetras, and two cat fishes..
I currently have a 20 G tank that I transferred my shrimps too that I also set up as a breeding tank for my rasboras soon. 

5) How do I vacuum or clean my tank once i get going with the new tank? I noticed my tank water has turned a bit yellowy ..wanted to vacuum the gravel and siphon the water out.

6) In a low tech planted tank - do I need to change filter mediums often? i.e. carbon..sponge..etc? I have an Eheim 2215.

Have you made it this far? lol..thanks for looking and taking the time to respond. ANY advice is so appreciated.


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## whytebred (May 10, 2012)

I have a 65 gallon tank that USED to be home to my platy/gourami/danio mixed community.. i had the same battle with the nitrate cycle, however it started out with much worse sludge and eventually turned into a tiny layer of green algae. I didn't have a lid either, and I just bought a clip-on light fixture. if your rim of your tank is metal (which it rarely is so im confused as to why these things still exist lol) theres magnetic lights, but it sounds like you have it figured out since your plants are growing towards the light and not striving for nutrients.

the only thing i can say about the red is no matter what kind of plant you own, aquatic or terrestrial, colour changes happen from too much or too little light. if its just on the top i wouldnt worry about it, they sound like they've grown healthily and properly. again, there may be some other reason so anyone jump in and correct me if i'm wrong, but it sounds like it's the lighting.

I've only used the fluval stratum for about a year, it CAN get cloudy very easily so definitely a negative. My ammonia levels didn't spike after the first use though, and stayed at a healthy level after cycles/changes, and the PH was lowered while using it. It's very expensive though. I'd rather use an ADA soil just from experience, my fish bred like crazy, and my plants actually started noticibly potent in colour and the little sludge that was left was gone within the first cycle. I did three months capped and three uncapped with the stratum by the way, and neither worked for me personally, could be my own error.

Ghost shrimp and guppies will both tend to eat the first fry they see, but they will be fine together. the grown ones don't attack eachother, and since you already have fully grown fish in your tank, i'd suggest either buying close to fully grown shrimp, or put them in a QT before introducing them. When i was letting them sit freshly bought from the store in the bag floating in the tank, my fish looked scared lol. As long as theyre big enough NOT to fit in their mouths, they'll be fine. JUST MAKE SURE YOUR WATER CONDITION IS PERFECT, THESE SHRIMP ARE VERY DELICATE. 

As for the vacuum part, you'll have to leave that to someone else. My tank always turned out perfect in the end conditionwise, but i'm a slob.. so i'm not in the right position to give you that advice -_- 

hope the rest can be confirmed, because i tried everything to keep my tank healthy and had the same issues in the beginning, i hope it all works out


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## whytebred (May 10, 2012)

i think i left out the part that said i added ghost shrimp to the community--that would make a lot more sense ahah


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

Every new tank needs to go through growing pains.

When I started my 79-gallon starfire planted, I had everything planned out to a T, but I still went through weeks of cloudy water, followed by weeks of green water.

So what I'm trying to say is, don't expect that by starting over, you will not go through the same battles. The good news is, you'll be more experienced this time around.

Here are my answers to your questions:

1) If you have more time than money, go with *mineralized top soil* (google it). If you have more money than time, go to AI and buy their Netlea planted soil. Cheaper than ADA but works just as well, judging from the appearance of their tanks.

2) If you use MTS, you need a sand or gravel cap or else your tank will turn into mud. I prefer tahitian moon sand because cherry shrimps show their best colors on a black substrate.

3) I consider my tank low tech, and am currently using a 130W power compact over my 79-gallon. You can buy a power compact 2nd hand here for cheap, but the bulbs cost more (though you don't need to change them as often as "they" say). You can also go with T5HO or LED.

4) Are you looking to change your stocking? Platies and mollies can grow pretty big and could threaten adult shrimps: I wouldn't keep them with cherry shrimps. Even guppies are iffy, I've seen guppies eat adult cherries. If you want to have larger fish, consider Amano and Flower shrimps.

5) Not sure what you are referring to here. Did you already set up your 60G starfire?

6) I'm using an Eheim 2213. I don't use carbon, but I do need to change/wash my filter floss regularly, or the water will become cloudy.


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## Jiinx (Apr 5, 2012)

thanks whytebred and solarz!

Still a newbie and can't post quotes...

But yes, I've realized shrimps are delicate. They have been able to stay with my fishes, but they're sooo much happier in their own tank. In the fish tank, I never see them - they're always hiding.

Solarz ..thank you for your advice. I do realize that every tank has growing pains. The headaches and time/money/bad advice I got with my first tank - I'm hoping I can do better with the start of another tank. 

No, I don't have the new tank set up yet. but, when I do - do you need to vacuum the gravel? or just do water changes without vacuuming? If I do vacuum, I'd imagine I'd have to be very careful or else I'd vacuum up soil. 

But you're saying Netlea is a good option. Would I need to put gravel on top or is that a personal choice?

what's a power compact? 

No, not changing my current stockings. Wouldn't know what to do with all my fishes plus I've gotten attached to them. I may, however, introduce a fish that can control the fry population, which is getting ridiculous. 

Why don't you use carbon? I've heard that around here...I've got two carbons in my Eheim!! Am I missing something here...


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

Jiinx said:


> No, I don't have the new tank set up yet. but, when I do - do you need to vacuum the gravel? or just do water changes without vacuuming? If I do vacuum, I'd imagine I'd have to be very careful or else I'd vacuum up soil.
> 
> But you're saying Netlea is a good option. Would I need to put gravel on top or is that a personal choice?


If you're setting up a planted tank, then you *NEVER* need to vacuum your gravel. The idea is that in a planted tank, fish poop serves as fertilizer for the plants. You certainly wouldn't want to disturb the substrate and uproot all your plants!

If you go with Netlea, you can use it as a substrate on its own. No need to cap it with anything.



> what's a power compact?


It's a type of fluorescent lighting. If you don't know what it is, just go with T5HO. 



> No, not changing my current stockings. Wouldn't know what to do with all my fishes plus I've gotten attached to them. I may, however, introduce a fish that can control the fry population, which is getting ridiculous.
> 
> Why don't you use carbon? I've heard that around here...I've got two carbons in my Eheim!! Am I missing something here...


Some people say that carbon adsorbs minerals that plants need. Mostly, I feel that carbon is simply unnecessary. Any waste that fishes produce will be used by plants for their own growth. That's the circle of life. 

Since you are not looking to change your stocking, I would not recommend keeping cherry shrimp except as a source of expensive live food.  Check out amano shrimps instead.


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## Jiinx (Apr 5, 2012)

solarz said:


> If you're setting up a planted tank, then you *NEVER* need to vacuum your gravel. The idea is that in a planted tank, fish poop serves as fertilizer for the plants. You certainly wouldn't want to disturb the substrate and uproot all your plants!


Makes sense. So I have gravel and water that is turning yellow. I'm due for a water change - my current tank is 55g and low tech planted. If I'm not vacuuming the gravel, how would I remove the sludge?

Could I stick with a hagen light? Or would ai recommend a better lighting source?


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## Fishyfishyfishy (Mar 3, 2008)

I recommend real SOIL. It is cheap and I got more satisfying results with my 55g soil tank (less work, slower growth, no CO2, less expensive). I tore down my high tech tank because it's just too troublesome (that is why I am selling you my plants!)

I use a hagen sinlge T5 48" light. Never remove the sludge, it's the fertilizer for your plants. Just do water change, don't touch the bottom.


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

Jiinx said:


> Makes sense. So I have gravel and water that is turning yellow. I'm due for a water change - my current tank is 55g and low tech planted. If I'm not vacuuming the gravel, how would I remove the sludge?
> 
> Could I stick with a hagen light? Or would ai recommend a better lighting source?


Don't remove the sludge, it's completely unnecessary in a well planted tank.

Check out this chart:
http://www.petsandponds.com/en/aquarium-supplies/c5813/index.html

This seems to indicate that Hagen is much more effective than other lights, but I can't tell you from experience as I've never used it.


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## whytebred (May 10, 2012)

solarz said:


> Don't remove the sludge, it's completely unnecessary in a well planted tank.
> 
> Check out this chart:
> http://www.petsandponds.com/en/aquarium-supplies/c5813/index.html
> ...


I have a hagen light for my turtles and my gouramis. My turtles had a little sludge problem for a bit, but the light ended up killing most of the bacteria (or so it appeared) after two days of regular 12hr on/12hr off cycles (Hagen Exo Terra RetiGlow 10.0 UVB). They have UV sterilizer/clarifiers for amphibians and ponds, which work excellent, but any for of UV light with less than a 14 watt output should be good for you. I used an 8 watt UV Sterilizer for my gouramis (with and without a filter/air pump set up), and it works great without a filter or pump system.

**I'm not telling you to use it without a filter--I'm breeding my gouramis so I don't want the bubble nests to get destroyed.


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## whytebred (May 10, 2012)

**when I used it with the filter and pump, it took me less than a day to notice clear water with no sludge.


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## Jiinx (Apr 5, 2012)

really? How interesting!! I wonder if I should get something more than Power Glo. I sort of bought just whatever the guy at Big Als (grr) suggested to me. Starting out in this hobby is VERY overwhelming. Thanks, I'll look into the lights..

solarz..I noticed another thread discussing Netlea. I'm concerned IF I do go with Netlea, would cycling my new tank be a concern if the pH is so low?


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## GAT (Oct 8, 2011)

You can buy a cheap T5 light fixture at aquatraders. They odyssea light fixture has mixed review though.


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