# Plumbing help



## fury165

Ok guys, I'm just working through the last of my check list for my custom ~75gal build and the one part I"m stuck on is the plumbing for the overflow and plumbing for the sump. 

The tank has two overflow holes (1 1/2" main & 1" emergency) and one return (3/4") drilled on the bottom for a Herbie style overflow. I really want a super clean layout so I want to use PVC pipes with minimal spa flex tubing. 

I'm having trouble figuring out what to buy and where.. I can't seem to find certain pieces I see you guys using like sched 40 or sched 80 PVC, gate valves, locline pieces etc. So I'm hoping you guys can help a brother out  by not just pointing me to so and so who has this stuff, but give me some good pointers how to figure out and execute my plumbing system.

TIA

Roger


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## shiver905

First Id sit down and think about if you really WANT to minimize Spa/Tiger flex use.

I understand If you Hard pipe and do a decent job the pumbing just looks more professional and cleaner.

IMO its the only benefit.

Plumbing is going to be hidden most likey anyways.


I also noticed many people go a very complex route for theere plumbing.
IMO it just takes up alot of space and the costs go threw the roof with all those 1.5"-2" unions.

Not to mention every time you use a Elbow, Tee, 45..ect.. You loose flow.
--

Im going to do some plumbing for my tank soon. 
Im trying to not use anything besides tigerflex unions and ball valves.




Keep us posted, If like to see what you do.




If it were up to me id so some simple Straight down I Spa/Tiger flex drain to your sump. Add a few Ts in the end so In the future if you need something directly fed its there and a few ball valves.

A return with with spa/tiger flex with a union and some soft tubing connected to your pump.



BTW I say this because I have broken a tank Bumbing into a drain pipe.


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## sig

shiver905 said:


> First Id sit down and think about if you really WANT to minimize Spa/Tiger flex use.
> 
> Not to mention every time you use a Elbow, Tee, 45..ect.. You loose flow.
> --
> QUOTE]
> 
> I need help also for this one. I should run lines to the bacement for the sump and will need to use at least 4 90 elbows for the drain. the drain is 1.5" and the line from the pump is 3/4. Is there any possibility that I will loose flow in the drain amd as result pump will overflow the tank with the sump water?
> 
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## shiver905

sig said:


> shiver905 said:
> 
> 
> 
> First Id sit down and think about if you really WANT to minimize Spa/Tiger flex use.
> 
> Not to mention every time you use a Elbow, Tee, 45..ect.. You loose flow.
> --
> QUOTE]
> 
> I need help also for this one. I should run lines to the bacement for the sump and will need to use at least 4 90 elbows for the drain. the drain is 1.5" and the line from the pump is 3/4. Is there any possibility that I will loose flow in the drain amd as result pump will overflow the tank with the sump water?
> 
> 
> 
> Yes there is that risk, But im shure it wont be a problem because your going to look into it now
> 
> It depends on What your pump is and how far down the sump is.
> 
> Yes the 90s will restrict flow. Try to mimimize them.
> With some research you can rougly estimate how much return GPH you need.
Click to expand...


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## ameekplec.

I spent a good amount of time figuring this all out myself. The first two things to determineare where your lines come in/out from your display tank, and where they need to end up in the sump. That will determine if you can have any vertical drops (preferred for herbie style overflows).

For my setup, I placed my drains directly over my sump so they fall right in so there's minimal resistance and chances for a clog to occur.

As for the return line, I wouldn't suggest a manifold for a herbie system. Your drain is pretty well precisely tuned to your return volume. Small things can change the return volume of your pump if it's on a manifold - for example, I need to periodically adjust the drain/return ratio because my media reactors clump/compact and change the flow through the reactor, therefore affecting the flow upstream of the manifold and changing the return rate to the tank, which in turn necessitates an adjustment of the drain line. Pain in the arse. Next time I'll just run a dedicated smaller pump for the media reactors - something I may end up doing sooner than later.

The return line will be easy to plumb in - just get a pump rated higher than what you need so it can overcome all the turns and dial it back if need be.

As for where to get stuff, I ordered almost all of my plumbing from JL and from MOPS.ca - the latter has a much larger selection. I ordered a few schedule 40 grey plumbing parts (for those parts visible outside the stand) from JJ Downs in Etobicoke, and one from BRS just because I was doing an order from there.


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## Chris S

Most of your common sch.40 plumbing parts (pipe, unions, ball valves, etc.) you can get at Lowes. Depot and Rona have them too, but their selection is sketchy.

For anything else, check the suppliers ameekplec mentions.


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## talon

I used a flex pipe from overflow directly to sump, a black color pipe on the ceiling.It doesn't any flow issue. That one is more cheaper than spa pipe.
Rigid plumbing parts is really expensive, the return parts cost me over $200 already, and drain parts $20 for 30'


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## sig

Thanks guys. I am a plumber and would not have a problem with the stuff. I can run lines vertically, but in this case the sump will be in the cold room.

Talon,

I see you have valve on the line from the pump. How pump reacting when you restrict flow?
Thanks

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## gucci17

Ooooh fun stuff! 

Don't go overly complicated on your plumbing. Using 45 degree elbows will help with flow loss. 

Spa flex can be usefull though too. I would not discount the use of it. Just make sure you use the proper cement for it. Many reports of reefers having problems with the joints failing with spa flex. I think Christy's red hot works. People have even been able to pull joints apart by hand after glueing with other types of pvc cement.

If you prefer grey pvc over white, go with GREY sch40. Unless you have plenty of disposible income, go wtih all sch80 fittings and pipe  !! 

Gate valves tend to cost alot as well so if you can, limit it to just your main drain. I would go with ball valves for the rest of the plumbing.

Try to use flexible tubing from your pump to help dampen the vibrations before connecting it to the rest of you hard plumbing.

As for where to buy stuff. You can buy from mops.ca, jlaquatics or bulk reef supply for online vendors. I find that lowes, rona and home depot have a very limited supply of pvc fittings. Definitely check out lowes first if you do go that route. 

I hear good things about JJ Downs in etobicoke although I've never been there myself personally. They should be your one stop shop for pvc fittings.

I honestly think with your size tank, you will be fine by using your 1" hole as the main drain instead. You have to remember it is a full syphon drain if you are incorporating the 'herbie' method. I suspect with an 1-1/2" drain you will have to toggle it back quite a bit or your 3/4" return will have trouble keeping up.

Just my 2cents


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## sig

do you guys have any experience with salt building inside the flex piping? How I can find out that black flex used by "talon" is safe for the fishes? Any idea to use Pool supply stores for the tubing?

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## gucci17

sig said:


> do you guys have any experience with salt building inside the flex piping? How I can find out that black flex used by talon is safe for the fishes?


That black flex pipe is used in pond applications all the time so I am confident it is fish safe.

As for salt building up inside your flex piping, I can't answer that as I don't have experience with ti.


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## ameekplec.

If you're doing a herbie, I might recommend you use a gate valve on both your return and drain - it just makes it that much easier to dial in bang on. In retrospect, it would have been an extra $20 that could save me a bunch of time now and then.

I have a bit of spaflx on my return plumbing - like gucci said, I have it between the pump and the hard plumbing to minimize any vibration.

As for ssalt building on the inside of the plumbing, I doubt it, but you will get a healthy amount of crud building up over time. I cleaned out my return line on my nano once (for the first time in 2 years or something) and it was absolutely full of nasty brown crap - so it never hurts to clean your plumbing here and there if you can


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## sig

tried to read about meaning of the "herbie" with no big success. probably, I am wrong but I should have two holes drilled in the tank and two lines will be used as a drain.

http://www.3reef.com/forums/i-made/m...are-60239.html

gate valves are always better and specially on the lines with pressure, since ball valves are designed to work in full open/close status. Otherwise the ball will be destroyed.

"I have a bit of spaflx on my return plumbing - like gucci said, I have it between the pump and the hard plumbing to minimize any vibration." I agree 100% and thanks for advice

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## fury165

thanks for the response guys, all great info that has given me food for thought.



ameekplec. said:


> The first two things to determineare where your lines come in/out from your display tank, and where they need to end up in the sump.
> 
> For my setup, I placed my drains directly over my sump so they fall right in so there's minimal resistance and chances for a clog to occur.
> .


The lines will enter and exit from the back center of the tank. the overflow box is bigger than I like (~ 16 * 5)but I didn't want an external overflow either. I could place it right under the bulkheads but I suspect it will interfere with the placement of the electrical items under the sump.



gucci17 said:


> Ooooh fun stuff!
> 
> Don't go overly complicated on your plumbing. Using 45 degree elbows will help with flow loss.
> 
> Spa flex can be usefull though too. I would not discount the use of it.
> 
> Gate valves tend to cost alot as well so if you can, limit it to just your main drain. I would go with ball valves for the rest of the plumbing.
> 
> Try to use flexible tubing from your pump to help dampen the vibrations before connecting it to the rest of you hard plumbing.
> 
> I honestly think with your size tank, you will be fine by using your 1" hole as the main drain instead. You have to remember it is a full syphon drain if you are incorporating the 'herbie' method. I suspect with an 1-1/2" drain you will have to toggle it back quite a bit or your 3/4" return will have trouble keeping up.


LOL nothing crazy planned, just super clean as I can get it. I do plan on using spa flex where i need to make connections to the pump as you suggested as well as the parts of the overflow that need to go into the overflow section of the sump.

As for the size of the drains, John from NAFB suggested and built the tank with those size holes. I do realize I'm going to have to adjust the drain a bit but that is par for the course with herbies if I understand them correctly.



ameekplec. said:


> If you're doing a herbie, I might recommend you use a gate valve on both your return and drain - it just makes it that much easier to dial in bang on.


Planned on using it on the drain, but duly noted for the return.

How did you figure out the optimal height of the pipes in the overflow Eric? I understand the main needs to be fully submerged but how far down from the bottom of the overflow teeth? Also how did you cut it after it was already in place and the tank full of water?


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## talon

*Valve on line from pump*

Due I knew my pump is too powerful to my main tank just one 1.5" drain,
I bypass the flow to feed my ATS, Fuge, Carbon reactor and 2 more spare outtake. So it won't any bad react to the pump when I restrict flow. Actullay, I'm going to drill one more hole for drain. so I can fully open the valve to get higher turnover rate.


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## ameekplec.

fury165 said:


> How did you figure out the optimal height of the pipes in the overflow Eric? I understand the main needs to be fully submerged but how far down from the bottom of the overflow teeth? Also how did you cut it after it was already in place and the tank full of water?


I wazs wondering that too when I was planning, and it came down to flow rate, and how much your overflow will drain when the flow is off. I didn't want too much water to end up back into the sump after a power failure, so I left the drains pretty high. The main drain is about 4" below the bottom of the overflow teeth, and the emergency/secondary drain is about 1/2" below.

The main drain is low enough that it doesn't suck air all the time, but high enough that it only drains ~2 gallons to the sump when the return pump is off. Also, I can set the flow so that the overflow is full enough that the water that comes through the teeth only falls ~1/2" so it dosn't make any noise.

The emergency drain is just a tad lower than the teeth as I didn't want the overflow to not surface skim if the main drain wasn't working at 100%. But it's about 3 - 4" higher than the main drain.

I precut the pipes before it was full, and it worked out well based on my above assumptions, and required just a bit of tweaking to get the flow right so water coming over the overflow wasn't falling 4", and thatI was actually draining at the same rate as the return was filling the tank.


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## fury165

ameekplec. said:


> I wazs wondering that too when I was planning, and it came down to flow rate, and how much your overflow will drain when the flow is off. I didn't want too much water to end up back into the sump after a power failure, so I left the drains pretty high. The main drain is about 4" below the bottom of the overflow teeth, and the emergency/secondary drain is about 1/2" below.
> 
> The main drain is low enough that it doesn't suck air all the time, but high enough that it only drains ~2 gallons to the sump when the return pump is off. Also, I can set the flow so that the overflow is full enough that the water that comes through the teeth only falls ~1/2" so it dosn't make any noise.
> 
> The emergency drain is just a tad lower than the teeth as I didn't want the overflow to not surface skim if the main drain wasn't working at 100%. But it's about 3 - 4" higher than the main drain.
> 
> I precut the pipes before it was full, and it worked out well based on my above assumptions, and required just a bit of tweaking to get the flow right so water coming over the overflow wasn't falling 4", and thatI was actually draining at the same rate as the return was filling the tank.


Excellent thanks for the info.

Now, what about the fittings - Slip or threaded? Do I need to purchase unions and elbows bigger than my pipe size (I assume I want to keep the pipes the same size as the bulkhead?), or how do they fit together?


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## ameekplec.

Depends on the fitting, but I'd recommend slip for most everything. The only thing I didn't get slip was the gate valve, as I wanted to be able to remove it for cleaning at a later date.

The bulkheads I got weren't slip on both sides, but that's just because they were ones I had laying about.

as for the size of everything, the sizing refers to the internal diameter of the pipe, so all fittings of one size fit each other. In a slip fitting or pipe, the inner diameter will be (for example) 1", and the outer diameter will be 1.5". The fitting they slip into (a socket) will be a 1" fitting, but the diameter of the socket is made to accomodate the whole width of the 1" pipe (so it's a bit larger than 1.5").

I don't think that's explained well, but in anycase, the only time you really need to change the size is when you have changes in flow rates or the feed/supply lines are a different size or capacity. It's pretty safe to assume that in a standard system, if your return is 3/4", then everything connected to it will be "3/4" " plumbing.


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## sig

talon said:


> Due I knew my pump is too powerful to my main tank just one 1.5" drain,
> I bypass the flow to feed my ATS, Fuge, Carbon reactor and 2 more spare outtake. So it won't any bad react to the pump when I restrict flow. Actullay, I'm going to drill one more hole for drain. so I can fully open the valve to get higher turnover rate.


Looks like I will have the same set up like you. What pump are you using. I was thinking about 
Blueline HD 40 External Pump
[BL-PU-40HD]

https://www.seaumarineonline.com/pr...d=487&osCsid=e31fc747933422c0f0cbf6aa50212e8e

Thanks

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## talon

*Pump*

Mine is Reeflo Barracuda 4300gph, brand as same as SUM's used for their system in store. But his model is Hammerhead 5400gph. HD40 790gph might not enough for basement pump in my experience. I used MagDrive 18(1800gph) before it still not good enough.
External pump 85-100% reach factory specification, internal pump drop a lot of factory specification. For example, my Magdive 18 said 10'-850gph, in my system straight 10'-250gph. It'll too low turnover for my system. You need calculate total length for pump to tank, then find a pump meet your requirement.


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## sig

Thank you Talon for the advice. It will really help

$400 +tax

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## sig

I found the diagrams how the GPH fails based on the elevation, but is there any rule how many GPS I need for the normal circulation between tank and sump?

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## Chris S

fury165 said:


> Excellent thanks for the info.
> 
> Now, what about the fittings - Slip or threaded? Do I need to purchase unions and elbows bigger than my pipe size (I assume I want to keep the pipes the same size as the bulkhead?), or how do they fit together?


Slip for everything that isn't submerged, but I use threaded for stuff that is normally submerged. For example, the union right after the return pump is threaded because I didn't have to glue it - who cares if there is a teeny tiny leak if it is below water anyway =D

Makes it possible to remove if I ever need to reuse the union or take apart areas of the hard plumbing.


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## shiver905

sig said:


> I found the diagrams how the GPH fails based on the elevation, but is there any rule how many GPS I need for the normal circulation between tank and sump?


Id say 500gph to 900gph is a nice spot to be.

Its a debatable topic 
Some say Blast the sump with water some say minimize flow threw it.

I run 1200gph
So I like to blast it.

Id go out to the place your buying all the plumbing and lay it all down in the store.
Youll drive yourself nuts if you keep thinking about this Beacuse your going to notice plumbing does not go to plan.
--

I see you have found the calculations. Now Find out the distance from the sump to the tank. Do the Calculation and youll have a rough number to look for in a pump.

It will get pricey if your going really high. But its normally a one time purchace so dont skimp on it.


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## talon

*Normal circulation*

I'd say 6-10 times your total volume of tank+sump.


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## ameekplec.

Match it to the intake of the skimmer - no reason to flow more through the sump than can be effiiciently filtered. Remember to take head loss into account.

Also, the return shouldn't be part of your main in-tank flow. If anything you might use it to create a bit of turbulence, but you should think of t entirely as a means of cycling water from tank to sump and back again.


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## sig

I think when buying pump with the outlet greater than 3/4 and then decrising size of the line to 3/4, we increase the pressure in the line. (Just my opinion)

Thank you all. It was very helpfull and I am ready now to design

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## gucci17

I agree with Eric. I would aim for what your skimmer is rated for and go from there. That is typically what most reefers have based their flow from. 

Intank flow is a different story...depends on what's living in there.

Don't forget that some pumps require you to upsize the fittings/pipe size ie. mag pumps. Keep that in mind as well.

Slip or threaded fittings were discussed. The way I did my plumbing in the past was picturing what if I need to take it all apart to sell or move. If you are confident in your threading (use better teflon tape like the pink type not the cheap white stuff) I would put a threaded valve after the drain bulkhead(s). Then I would continue on with slip fittings. Makes it easier to just shutoff the drain with the valve and you can cut the rest of the pipe to remove it from the system. You can always put a union in there if you want as well just like it was mentioned for the return pump.

You can make plumbing as simple or as complicated as you want!


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## sig

I will use 3/4 PEX piping for the return line, since I am using them for my plumbing jobs.
In case you or somebody will need it let me know.
http://www.pexinfo.com/

I was thinking about using the BlueLine HD pump. I am looking the flow chart and can not understand it. The chart shows in GPM and by transferring it to GPH (x60) I am getting more GPH than in the pump spec. 
http://www.bluelineaquatics.com/products/water_pump/hd_chart.html

Please have a look on this link. Probably you will suggest the pump
I have high approximately 16' including 4' on horizontal and was thinking about 40HD with 790 GPS. Reef Octopus Extreme 8200 Gallon) In Sump Protein Skimmer has a pump with 750 gph

http://www.bluelineaquatics.com/products/water_pump/hd.html

Thanks,

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## gucci17

I don't believe PEX is IPS like sch40 fittings. From what I remember, PEX pipe has a smaller ID. Anyways, go with more standard tubing or sch40 pvc pipe.

Looking at the charts...

The HD55 will give you appox. 700GPH @ 16ft head.

Does that fit your requirements? Sorry, I haven't checked to see what your setup is.

*edit* actually it's a little less than 700gph, more like 660gph.

You don't really need to calculate the horizontal line when calculating head pressure. Also, I don't believe the HD40 will work for you @ 16ft of head.


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## sig

Sorry, what is the IPS?

I should run now. will check later. Thank you all for support

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## fury165

ameekplec. said:


> Depends on the fitting, but I'd recommend slip for most everything. The only thing I didn't get slip was the gate valve, as I wanted to be able to remove it for cleaning at a later date.
> 
> The bulkheads I got weren't slip on both sides, but that's just because they were ones I had laying about.
> 
> as for the size of everything, the sizing refers to the internal diameter of the pipe, so all fittings of one size fit each other. In a slip fitting or pipe, the inner diameter will be (for example) 1", and the outer diameter will be 1.5". The fitting they slip into (a socket) will be a 1" fitting, but the diameter of the socket is made to accomodate the whole width of the 1" pipe (so it's a bit larger than 1.5").
> 
> I don't think that's explained well, but in anycase, the only time you really need to change the size is when you have changes in flow rates or the feed/supply lines are a different size or capacity. It's pretty safe to assume that in a standard system, if your return is 3/4", then everything connected to it will be "3/4" " plumbing.


Think I got it thanks.


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## fury165

gucci17 said:


> Slip or threaded fittings were discussed. The way I did my plumbing in the past was picturing what if I need to take it all apart to sell or move. If you are confident in your threading (use better teflon tape like the pink type not the cheap white stuff) I would put a threaded valve after the drain bulkhead(s). Then I would continue on with slip fittings. Makes it easier to just shutoff the drain with the valve and you can cut the rest of the pipe to remove it from the system. You can always put a union in there if you want as well just like it was mentioned for the return pump.
> 
> You can make plumbing as simple or as complicated as you want!


Thanks Gucci, btw what do you guys use to cut the pipes, a hacksaw or a pipe cutter fo the cleanest cuts?


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## ameekplec.

I used a hacksaw because I didn't have a pipe cutter on hand - just file them down to get rid of the burs.


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## gucci17

sig said:


> Sorry, what is the IPS?
> 
> I should run now. will check later. Thank you all for support


IPS stands for Iron Pipe Size

Pretty much a standard for the pipe and fittings we use in for plumbing in this hobby.



fury165 said:


> Thanks Gucci, btw what do you guys use to cut the pipes, a hacksaw or a pipe cutter fo the cleanest cuts?


Hacksaw with a mitre block helps keep cuts straight. Then sandpaper to remove burrs.

Ratchet pipe cutter works as well.

What I like using the most is a chop saw. Gives a nice clean cut. A proper blade for plastic would be safer though.


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## sig

gucci17 said:


> IPS stands for Iron Pipe Size
> 
> Pretty much a standard for the pipe and fittings we use in for plumbing in this hobby.
> .


I did not learn it when I got my licence, but I assume internal diameter always the same and it does not matter what type of pipe you are using

"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_pipe_size

_Iron Pipe Size (IPS) refers to an old pipe sizing system still in use by some industries, including major PVC pipe manufacturers, as well as some legacy drawings and equipment.

The iron pipe size standard came into being early in the 19th century and remained in effect until after World War II. The IPS system was primarily used in the US and the United Kingdom. In the 1920s, the Copper Tube Size (CTS) standard was combined with the IPS standard.

During the IPS period, pipes were cast in halves and welded together, and pipes' dimensions were sized by reference to the outside diameters ("ODs") of the pipes [1] . The ODs under IPS were roughly as we know them today under the Ductile Iron Pipe Standard (DIPS) and Nominal Pipe Size (NPS) Standards, and some of the wall thicknesses were also retained with a different designator. In 1948, the DIPS came into effect, when greater control of a pipe's wall thickness was possible.

CTS diameter always specifies the OD of a tube, where pipe diameter specifications only approximate the pipe ID for sizes of 12 inch or less, and STD wall thickness. The IPS number (reference to an OD) is the same as the NPS number, but the schedules were limited to Standard Wall (STD), Extra Strong, (XS) and Double Extra Strong (XXS). STD is identical to SCH 40 for NPS 1/8 to NPS 10, inclusive, and indicates .375" wall thickness for NPS 12 and larger. XS is identical to SCH 80 for NPS 1/8 to NPS 8, inclusive, and indicates .500" wall thickness for NPS 8 and larger. Different definitions exist for XXS, but it is generally thicker than schedule 160.[2]_

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## fury165

I want to incorporate a way to allow me to do a water change by opening a valve and feeding a length of spaflex into a bucket. Where would be the best place, from the overflow chamber (possible issues with the water depth and the skimmer?) or from the return chamber (issue with my ato system?)?

By the way is jj downs open on saturdays?


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## ameekplec.

You could incorporate something by having a tee off below your gate valve on the drain.

The only problem with that is that you probably won't get enough overflow volume from your tank once a return pump is turned off for your water change. 

If you could isolate one section of the sump (like my setup), or have a separate tank plumbed into your system that can be isolated and exchanged 100%, then reconnected, that would be ideal. If I can move my ATO reservoir somewhere else outside of the stand, I may go this route - plumb in my 10g tall, and then when I need to do a WC, just isolate the 10g (close the supply and drain lines), empty, fill, and reconnect to the system. It'll have two advantages - 1, ease of water change and 2, extra volume.


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## fury165

Actually, I can use one of the hose with the ball valve that feeds the phosban reactors with the maxi jet pump. Just need to remember to cut a longer length so i can pull it out side of the stand.

Picked up some unions, ball valves and tiger flex tubing from BWI plumbing today. Bought wayyyy more tubing that i really need, but cheap insurance against screw ups . Now to source the gate valves and sched 40 pvc pipes and adhesives. If I recall, I can only buy the pipe in 8-10 ft lenghts right? What a waste as I only need perhaps 4 ft of each lol.


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## sig

found few images

http://www.melevsreef.com/280g/280g_sump.html

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## sig

Just found that Pool supply on Dufferin /Finch has Tiger Flex and Spa flex tubing. go to check it tomorrow

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## bioload

fury165 said:


> I'm having trouble figuring out what to buy and where.. I can't seem to find certain pieces I see you guys using like sched 40 or sched 80 PVC, gate valves, locline pieces etc.


http://ontarioplastics.ca/customerSupport/contact.php.......will have everything you need 40 & 80 in grey or white pvc 3/4" up to 4" usually stocked.


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## sig

bioload said:


> http://ontarioplastics.ca/customerSupport/contact.php.......will have everything you need 40 & 80 in grey or white pvc 3/4" up to 4" usually stocked.


Thank you. Good one

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## fury165

bioload said:


> http://ontarioplastics.ca/customerSupport/contact.php.......will have everything you need 40 & 80 in grey or white pvc 3/4" up to 4" usually stocked.


thanks Bio


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## fury165

bioload said:


> http://ontarioplastics.ca/customerSupport/contact.php.......will have everything you need 40 & 80 in grey or white pvc 3/4" up to 4" usually stocked.


Bio had a quick look at the site and didn't see any mention of a storefront... did you go there in person? will try to call later once I get out of meetings.


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## bioload

I go in person (Midland)....don't think they have an online storefront. Guys there will help put together the fittings you need


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## sig

I called them today and they have a store at midland.

I was now in the Discount Pool supply and got Tiger flex 1.5" for $2.70 plus tax. They also have plenty of unions and fittings. Also 2' tiger is available.

What PVC glue should I use? Is it regular black PVC glue or it is someting else? I seen in this store PVC shc. 40. Is it didfferent color or safe for ...?

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## fury165

sig said:


> I called them today and they have a store at midland.
> 
> I was now in the Discount Pool supply and got Tiger flex 1.5" for $2.70 plus tax. They also have plenty of unions and fittings. Also 2' tiger is available.
> 
> What PVC glue should I use? Is it regular black PVC glue or it is someting else? I seen in this store PVC shc. 40. Is it didfferent color or safe for ...?


Bwi plumbing sells their 11/2" Tigerflex for 1.97/ft.


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## sig

fury165 said:


> Bwi plumbing sells their 11/2" Tigerflex for 1.97/ft.


Agree, but for me gas to Whitby will be much more and I am not talking about waiting for reply to my phone message and email to make appointment from Monday morning

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## talon

Is tigerflex as same as spa flex? OMG I bought from Lowes $4 feet.


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## sig

talon said:


> Is tigerflex as same as spa flex? OMG I bought from Lowes $4 feet.


No it is not. I don't remember what i seen in Lowes on Monday and it was ~$6 p/f. I think it was spaflex

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## talon

Is tigerflex can glue with pvc fitting?


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## fury165

talon said:


> Is tigerflex can glue with pvc fitting?


Yes it can


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## talon

The tigerflex is not a flat surface, how can I glue it secruity and no leak.


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## sig

Theoretically it could be done, but I will never do it. Use metal clams

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## fury165

talon said:


> The tigerflex is not a flat surface, how can I glue it secruity and no leak.


a look around RC forums and even in ameekplec's build thread and you will see examples of spaflex / tigerflex being cemented into regular pvc fittings.



sig said:


> Theoretically it could be done, but I will never do it. Use metal clams


To each his own, but i had asked Tyler from BWI when i went to see him and he recommended regular pvc cement and primer. I just see the metal clamps rusting in no time in my stand.


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## shiver905

I payed 4$ for the 1.5"

I dont get how ORG is selling it for that much.
But a buddy was in the area so I didnt even have to step out.


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## sig

fury165 said:


> . I just see the metal clamps rusting in no time in my stand.


That is also true

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## sig

Look on these. Looks like I am going to use them. I tried them with the brided tubes and it holds perfect. You can even use them for rigid PVC

http://www.homedepot.ca/webapp/wcs/...&N=51+4294954472&catalogId=10051&Nty=1&s=true

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## gucci17

Please make sure you are using the correct pvc cement when glue spaflex/tigerflex. You need Christies Red Hot as some standard cements can pull apart (google it, trust me). Also don't use purple primer on spaflex.

And yes, even those gear clamps that are supposidly stainless steel will eventually corrode when exposed to a humid and salty environment.


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## gucci17

sig said:


> Look on these. Looks like I am going to use them. I tried them with the brided tubes and it holds perfect. You can even use them for rigid PVC
> 
> http://www.homedepot.ca/webapp/wcs/...&N=51+4294954472&catalogId=10051&Nty=1&s=true


They are very cheaply made Sig and I can gauranty they will eventually fail. Use standard pvc INSERT fittings if you plan on using braided vinyl pipe and clamps.


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## fury165

gucci17 said:


> Please make sure you are using the correct pvc cement when glue spaflex/tigerflex. You need Christies Red Hot as some standard cements can pull apart (google it, trust me). Also don't use purple primer on spaflex.
> 
> And yes, even those gear clamps that are supposidly stainless steel will eventually corrode when exposed to a humid and salty environment.


Good to know Gucci.. where can you get this locally?


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## sig

gucci17 said:


> Please make sure you are using the correct pvc cement when glue spaflex/tigerflex. You need Christies Red Hot as some standard cements can pull apart (google it, trust me). Also don't use purple primer on spaflex.
> 
> And yes, even those gear clamps that are supposedly stainless steel will eventually corrode when exposed to a humid and salty environment.


Do you know if I can use regular Black PVC cement for the 40shc? I seen yesterday PVC 40shc. cement in the Pool supply store.

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## gucci17

fury165 said:


> Good to know Gucci.. where can you get this locally?


A company I used to work for in Mississauga used to carry it. I'm not sure anymore. It's an irrigation supplier. Contact me for details if you are still interested.



sig said:


> Do you know if I can use regular Black PVC cement for the 40shc? I seen yesterday PVC 40shc. cement in the Pool supply store.


I know thsoe push/compression fittings may seem like good quality Sig but being in the irrigation industry, I can tell you right now that it is not what it seems. I am by no means a professional with plumbing parts but I can tell you this, as a purchaser for a supplier, I would never bring those fittings in for my customers. IF you are using it for a low pressure application, then I would think it may be ok. But, if you are talking about using it inline with your return pump, I would be hesitant. If those fittings worked as well as they claim, there would no doubt in my mind a demand for it from my contractors as these guys work with pipe/fittings on a daily basis. When there are ways to make life easier for them, I will hear about it  lol.

When you say black pvc cement, are you talking about cement for ABS pipe? From what I know, all cement contain the same type of bonding chemical or whatever it is. It's just different concentrations for different applications which is why there are so many types of cement you can purchase.

As usual, it's just my opinion right. In the end, it's your call! I don't mean to sound like a nag!


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## sig

gucci17 said:


> But, if you are talking about using it inline with your return pump, I would be hesitant.  lol.
> *I do not speak English properly, but I am not crazy. I was talking about using these on the drain line*
> When you say black pvc cement, are you talking about cement for ABS pipe? !


When I say black pvc cement, I mean color of the glue itself. for ABS there is a yellow one.

Your opinion is always greatly appreciated and almost always followed. Please keep it in mind

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## gucci17

Another thing, there are specific cements for flex pvc. One of my suppliers OATEY carries a type of flexible pvc cement.










I have access to Oatey products but unfortunately, I can't justify bringing in a box/carton quantity as that is the minimum order per cement/primer type.


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## gucci17

sig said:


> When I say black pvc cement, I mean color of the glue itself. for ABS there is a yellow one.
> 
> Your opinion is always greatly appreciated and almost always followed. Please keep it in mind


Ah ok, sorry lol. Those compression fittings may be ok with the drain lines. I'd just be concern that it may eventually leak or the body crack over time.

I'm not familiar with black cement and cannot comment on it. Yes, you're right. ABS cement is generally the yellow glue.


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## sig

http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=68147

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## gucci17

sig said:


> http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=68147


lol...they mention the company I work for in that thread.

I'll be honest, I've used purple primer and regular cement with flex pipe on a friend's drain before because they didn't care. It's still up and running right now. So it's not impossible but just saying, if I have to use flex pipe, I would use the specified glue for it just to be safe.

Forgot to mention to check out pool/spa supply stores as well.


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## gucci17

sig said:


> do you guys have any experience with salt building inside the flex piping? How I can find out that black flex used by "talon" is safe for the fishes? Any idea to use Pool supply stores for the tubing?


Just thought I would post this installation guide by IPEX as it may be helpful to others - http://www.ipexinc.com/Content/Training/Flash/cement_course/en/cement-guide.pdf

I think someone asked about the salt buildup in another thread Sig. I think I would be more concerned about 'gunk' buildup as opposed to salt.

The black flex pipe sounds like the type of pipe used for ponds which are made to be safe.

Not too sure about the pool supply stores.


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## sig

Thanks gucci,

What interesting that I never used primer for all my PVC jobs underground and in commercial. Can't say for sure about underground jobs, but never got complains for leaks in the buildings (8 years).

I found this one in HD and I think it can be used as return line and it safe for fishes. 
http://www.homedepot.ca/webapp/wcs/...artial&Ntx=mode+matchall&N=0&Ntk=P_PartNumber

They also have braided PVC and I think these are good also for return

http://www.homedepot.ca/webapp/wcs/...artial&Ntx=mode+matchall&N=0&Ntk=P_PartNumber

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## fury165

had a quick look at the pdf Gucci, and it is great for a PVC/Plumbing noob like me


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## gucci17

sig said:


> Thanks gucci,
> 
> What interesting that I never used primer for all my PVC jobs underground and in commercial. Can't say for sure about underground jobs, but never got complains for leaks in the buildings (8 years).
> 
> I found this one in HD and I think it can be used as return line and it safe for fishes.
> http://www.homedepot.ca/webapp/wcs/...artial&Ntx=mode+matchall&N=0&Ntk=P_PartNumber
> 
> They also have braided PVC and I think these are good also for return
> 
> http://www.homedepot.ca/webapp/wcs/...artial&Ntx=mode+matchall&N=0&Ntk=P_PartNumber


There are types of cement that don't need primer like Oatey's rain 'N shine cement. I am not shocked at all that you haven't used primer. There are many many people that don't and have no problems either.

Some people just use sand paper to rough up the surface of the bonding joints instead of primer.

That tubing can be quite expensive at HD. I've seen some of it at a pond supplier up by Brittania Rd and Trafalgar Rd. in Mississauga. Somewhere around there...I think it was called Sid's Ponds.



fury165 said:


> had a quick look at the pdf Gucci, and it is great for a PVC/Plumbing noob like me


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## fury165

So after being quoted ~ $70.00 for a 1 1/2" gate valve from JJ Downs i decided to go to Ontario plastics... Didnt have them in stock but can be ordered... Mine for the low price of 383.00  Bluk reef supply here i come!


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## sig

IMO, but you can perfectly survive with the ball valve for $7 in Lowes. We are not dealing with high pressures.

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## sig

One more think. I was today in the Irving Plumbing Supply ( you can get all fittings and rigid piping) and they strongly recomend to use PVC 40 cement for 40 sch PVC. As per them it is more suitable

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## fury165

sig said:


> IMO, but you can perfectly survive with the ball valve for $7 in Lowes. We are not dealing with high pressures.


You need gate valves for proper tuning of Herbie systems, ball cables won't cut it. I have a number of those Lowes ball valves you mentioned, schedule 80 ball valves and they are very stiff. I won't even bother using them for my emergency shutoffs and will be replacing them with better quality true union ball valves.


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## ameekplec.

fury165 said:


> So after being quoted ~ $70.00 for a 1 1/2" gate valve from JJ Downs i decided to go to Ontario plastics... Didnt have them in stock but can be ordered... Mine for the low price of 383.00  Bluk reef supply here i come!


Ordered mine from JL for that reason. Hmm, JL's price isn barely better - $65+ shipping.

http://www.jlaquatics.com/product/pl-gv125/Spears+1-1+2"+Heavy+Duty+Gate+Vale.html


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## fury165

ameekplec. said:


> Ordered mine from JL for that reason. Hmm, JL's price isn barely better - $65+ shipping.
> 
> http://www.jlaquatics.com/product/pl-gv125/Spears+1-1+2"+Heavy+Duty+Gate+Vale.html


Yeah I noticed they carried it at JL's but didn't buy on my last order since I thought it could be sourced locally.. I want to get some other stuff from BRS but the shipping is obscene!


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## fury165

Hey Eric where did you pick up your grey pvc pipe you have in your overflow?


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## ameekplec.

Off cuts at JJ downs. Depending on the height an diameter you need, I may have enough left for your project. PM me.


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