# help setting up my first marine tank



## monk21 (Dec 5, 2012)

So, it seems I am infected and I want at last to own my first saltwater tank. I am quite knowledgeable when it comes to freshwater but I have no experience about saltwater. I only "know" what I read online. That is why I need your help.

I read here and there thousands of different opinions. From "of course you need a skimmer" to "skimmer, filters, this and that Is all paranoia". Different things to consider, different strong opinions online and someone new like me gets confused.

So...
1) do I necessarily need a skimmer?
2) aragonite or live sand?
3) do I need a filter? If yes what type? If yes with what inside?
4) do I need a sump?

Please pay attention to the word "need". If something is nice to gave but not a necessity please elaborate so I know what I really need and why.

What I want to have is some easy and not very expensive fish and other creatures like starfish, shrimps etc etc. Some coral and anemones if possible. All that in a 20g


----------



## thmh (Mar 17, 2011)

All the stuff you listed is not needed but it will make your life a lot easier in return makes your hobby a lot more enjoyable.

iam lazy so this is how i think

skimmer = prolong my water change 
sump = gives me more body of water = prolong my water change plus i can hide all my equipment which i use to prolong my waterchange 
filter = aint no body got time to clean that.....!!

p.s iam lazy and i want to make my hobby very low maintenance so i can enjoy it more.


----------



## monk21 (Dec 5, 2012)

thmh said:


> All the stuff you listed is not needed but it will make your life a lot easier in return makes your hobby a lot more enjoyable.
> 
> iam lazy so this is how i think
> 
> ...


Interesting approach and I will have to agree that ii cannot be on top of it 24/7. I already have 4 tanks and not much time!

So u think I can have a saltwater tank with only live rock maintaining it?


----------



## monk21 (Dec 5, 2012)

Another question I have is about reverse osmosis. Is it needed?


----------



## Torx (Jun 16, 2013)

If you are going fowlr, you do not need any of that. Grab up a good cuc and no need for mechanical filters...you may need chemicals to control algea when it becomes an issue though...and it will become an issue. The second you want to add corals, that world will change and you need all the above. 

As for ro vs ro/di...again...for fowlr, not needed, but highly recommended. You could getvaway with conditioned tap water for just a fowlr. For corals...I would never again not use ro/di water. 

U do highly suggest good test kits such as redsea or hanna. they are pricey but worth every penny

Sent from my SGH-T989D using Tapatalk 2


----------



## monk21 (Dec 5, 2012)

Torx said:


> If you are going fowlr, you do not need any of that. Grab up a good cuc and no need for mechanical filters...you may need chemicals to cobtrol algea if it becones an issue though. The second you want to add corals, that world will change and you need all the above.
> 
> As for ro vs ro/di...again...for fowlr, not needed, but highly recommended. You could getvaway with conditioned tap water for just a fowlr. For corals...I would never again not use ro/di water.
> 
> Sent from my SGH-T989D using Tapatalk 2


hm... ok, what is fowlr and what is cuc?

Does all that apply to any coral? Are coral the only demanding thing in a tank or I will have other restrictions as well? Are they so sensitive that they need all that?

So your opinion is, I can go buy a tank, sand (live or aragonite?), live rock and 2 ocellaris i want and set it up. LATER when I want to add something, I can always add equipment to my tank. correct?


----------



## Torx (Jun 16, 2013)

fowlr - fish only with live rock
cuc - clean up crew

Yes, corals are that sensitive.

My opinion is that you are crazy to not use RO/DI, a sump, and a skimmer even on a FOWLR. But your original post stated quite clearly the focus on the word *'NEED'*. You do not NEED any of it, but it will be a constant struggle and maintenance (much like thmh suggested).

Salt water tanks are NOTHING like fresh water tanks. Especially once you add coral.

As an example, the typical API test kits that you pick up from a LFS for nitrate (NO3) in ranges of 5ppm. 0-5-10-15-20 etc. Therefor if it is reading "0ppm", it could actually be as high as 4ppm possibly depending on how accurate it is. I test my nitrates below 1.00, typically they are at 0.00 to 0.25. So a color scale of 0-5 is not accurate. Also my phosphates (PO4) are running around 0.08, well below what any API test kit can provide.


----------



## fesso clown (Nov 15, 2011)

Here, I will direct you to the "old faithful" thread to answer your questions:
http://gtaaquaria.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7482

FOLR= Fish only with live rock (no coral)
CUC= Clean up crew ( snails ect...)

IMO (In my opinion) if you want to have a successful and less stressful first run at a reef tank:
Skimmer - yes 
Sump - yes
RODI unit - YES
Filter- NO 
Aragonite becomes your "live sand" once the tank is established. Better to buy new or well cleaned used (not live anymore) substrate.


----------



## Torx (Jun 16, 2013)

I got so caught up in the NEED statement that I missed the "All that in a 20g". Yes, follows nano standards. But a lot of maintenance. Great link that you provided Fesso. I love my 3 gallon nano reef tank. Daily 1 cup water changes and weekly 3 cup water changes. When I had my 20gallon, I did at least biweekly water changes, if not more.


----------



## monk21 (Dec 5, 2012)

Torx said:


> I got so caught up in the NEED statement that I missed the "All that in a 20g". Yes, follows nano standards. But a lot of maintenance. Great link that you provided Fesso. I love my 3 gallon nano reef tank. Daily 1 cup water changes and weekly 3 cup water changes. When I had my 20gallon, I did at least biweekly water changes, if not more.


by biweekly you mean twice a week or once every two weeks? and is that will all that equipment above or not?


----------



## Torx (Jun 16, 2013)

Twice a week, at least 5 gallons each change on my 20 gallon. And I still had huge hair algae issues using RO. Then I switched to RO/DI and within a few weeks, my algae issues were gone. 

Skimmer - yes (get a HOB skimmer such as Reefoctopus. They are well worth the money. Could even place your heater in the skimmer chambers to keep a cleaner look in your tank.)
Sump - no (preferred but not needed so long as you keep to a nano style tank/maintenance)
RODI unit - YES
Filter- NO


----------



## monk21 (Dec 5, 2012)

Wow 10gallons a week changes is too expensive salt-wise. I read that people change like 20% every 2 weeks which would mean 8 gallons a month. It is not valid? I overobsessed with everything when I first started but now I need the simplest solutions


----------



## Torx (Jun 16, 2013)

monk21 said:


> Wow 10gallons a week changes is too expensive salt-wise. I read that people change like 20% every 2 weeks which would mean 8 gallons a month. It is not valid? I overobsessed with everything when I first started but now I need the simplest solutions


Again, falling back to your NEED statement. You do not NEED these things, but if you want a simple maintenance tank with only a 5 gallon a week or two water change, then you NEED a GREAT skimmer and NEED RO/DI as a starter. You also NEED good test kits such as Redsea or Hanna. You also NEED a refractormeter, not just a hydrometer. When doing such a small tank, a hydrometer is not accurate enough. A large change in salinity can kill a fish right quick. You also need to heat and have circulation in your water change bucket to avoid pouring cold unmixed salt into a tank during a change.


----------



## monk21 (Dec 5, 2012)

Ok guys I will do a bit of research and come back to you for more discussion later. Thanks for the advice


----------



## thmh (Mar 17, 2011)

monk21 said:


> Ok guys I will do a bit of research and come back to you for more discussion later. Thanks for the advice


Don't run! Did we came on to hard!...... Damn mark! Lol jokes a side salt water is easy once you get the feel for it and you then make your own style of reefing.

~Tony


----------



## Torx (Jun 16, 2013)

monk21 said:


> Ok guys I will do a bit of research and come back to you for more discussion later. Thanks for the advice


Ya, do not run 

It is a great and simple hobby. But the 'need' statement does not mix with 'low maintenance' statements. I have had several reef tanks over the last 3 years. I started with a 20 gallon, no sump, HOB prism delux skimmer. I then had a 30 gallon in bar tank with a reefoctopus hob skimmer and sump in the closet, then a 29 gallon biocube with no skimmer. Now I have a 120gallon with 30 gallon sump and daughter has a 3gallon nano.

My suggestion is the same as you will read everywhere. Do it right and slow the first time. Get a great skimmer and ro/di unit. It will save you headaches and stress and money in the future.


----------



## Bayinaung (Feb 24, 2012)

Hey monk, I'm like you, got into salt water just this year after many years in fresh. the easiest way into salt water is probably what I did - buy a MATURE nano system from someone that has sufficient live rock with coraline algae well covered (indication of age of rock and maturity of tank). 

I picked up a 10G nano with a big HOB filter, nothing else. I use RODI water and I'm changing it once a month only (no SPS all softies except hitchhiker sps). I use good salt (coral pro) and not dosing nor feeding corals. they are doing fine. It is a fairly low maintenance system. 

I'd let the system get stable and mature before adding fish. Once you get fish you need to get rid of a lot of waste chemical from the bioload and it's probably best you get a skimmer. But, you can get away without a skimmer by changing your carbon and phosban in your filter more frequently. 

Light - if you don't want corals (yet), then high quality light isn't necessary. but good light is necessary once you want any kind of coral.

for your 20G 10% water change once a week should be ok (RODI water), and regular evap top offs of course.

To sum it up, for 20 gallon: 20-30lbs of live rock, sand, RODI water, big HOB or canister filter with carbon and phosban should do for 2-4 fish bioload with once a week water changes. 

Now that's not too different from your regular fresh water tank. I think as long as bioload is low, and live rocks are high, you can get away with less equipment. once bioload gets up there, you will need more equipment, more work.


----------



## monk21 (Dec 5, 2012)

Well it is very different from what I knew with freshwater. Anyway, pieces are coming together one by one.

1) I found live rock. 25 pounds I will get. Hopefully is good because I don't know how to recognise good from bad, dead from live etc

2) lights I already have the ones I use in my planted tank. Coralife t5 high output with a 10000k and an actinic bulb


----------



## Bayinaung (Feb 24, 2012)

monk21 said:


> Well it is very different from what I knew with freshwater. Anyway, pieces are coming together one by one.
> 
> 1) I found live rock. 25 pounds I will get. Hopefully is good because I don't know how to recognise good from bad, dead from live etc
> 
> 2) lights I already have the ones I use in my planted tank. Coralife t5 high output with a 10000k and an actinic bulb


Great. you can use one of your HOB filters or canister filter for your 20G. I'd get live sand and you're good to go I think. fill it up and let it cycle for a few weeks before adding fish.

I meant the work load and equipment for this low-maintenance setup is pretty equal to fresh water. (btw I don't do NOTHING to my fresh water tank except top it off with tap water. lots of plants and it's taking care of all the nitrates).

GL!


----------



## monk21 (Dec 5, 2012)

The habits of cycling a freshwater tank do not apply to saltwater? Meaning that can't I cycle by seeding my tank from an established tank or can't I use commercial bacteria and have it cycled in a week?


Also, should I get live sand (I don't understand why it is called live) or aragonite?


----------



## Bayinaung (Feb 24, 2012)

the live rock and live sand will have bacteria. salt water cycling is wayyyyyyyyy longer than fresh water. you can check countless threads in reefcentral etc where guys set up bare tanks with dry rock and seed it with some live rock and not put anything in including corals for months.

the reasons I can think are -live rock 1) has organisms/organics that may suddenly thrive/die during the cycling time in the tank (change always triggers it) and 2) rocks always have somethings it will leech into the water like nitrates and phosphates after being moved around and you don't want that happening with fish in there. let the water get stable and balanced before any fish or coral and you're going to have much better success first time, instead of lurching from one crisis to the next. And crises in salt water are much more expensive than in fresh water LOL. 

Two good accessories to have at the start: a reef test kit, & a hydrometer to test salinity of your tank water.


----------



## monk21 (Dec 5, 2012)

Is a refrektometer better than a hydrometer? Bwcause the second one is much cheaper.


----------



## george (Apr 11, 2009)

Refractometer? Yes, it is better than a hydrometer. Gives you a more accurate reading.


----------



## monk21 (Dec 5, 2012)

george said:


> Refractometer? Yes, it is better than a hydrometer. Gives you a more accurate reading.


Is it the same story as a digital and conventional thermometer? More accurate readings but without much important difference or is it something so serious that I shouldn't even consider a hydrometer?


----------



## rburns24 (Jan 31, 2011)

You shouldn't even consider a hydrometer. They have been known to be notoriously inaccurate.


----------



## monk21 (Dec 5, 2012)

What causes salinity go up and down? How important of am aspect is and how easy to change?


----------



## fesso clown (Nov 15, 2011)

Evaporation is what causes the salinity to swing, that and relying on a hydrometer. 
On a 20 Gallon tank you can expect about a quarter gallon of water to evaporate per day. As the water evaporates it leaves the salt behind causing the salinity to rise. You will need to top up the tank every day with FRESH RODI water to keep the salinity constant. This sounds like a PITA but it's not too bad. However, most of us salties use an auto top off (ATO) system that tops up the tank for us several times a day. You should consider adding that to your Need list. Stable salinity is seriously needed and the ATO ensures it.


----------



## Torx (Jun 16, 2013)

As water evaporates, it leaves the salt behind raising salt levels. top up your tank with fresh ro/di daily and before a water change or purchase an ato unit (Ato - auto top off) to keep your salinity stable. A sudden spike in salinity is dangerous to fish and may shock them. It is typically detrimental to coral if there is a sudden salinity change. 

Sent from my SGH-T989D using Tapatalk 2


----------



## monk21 (Dec 5, 2012)

Thanks for the info. What is the cost of this ato thingy? Will this mean that I dont have to do water changes?


----------



## Torx (Jun 16, 2013)

ATO's vary in price but are difficult to find one that will work on a sumpless system. Theyvalsovall have their advantages and disadvantages. I personally just use a gravity fed top off with a float valve. Total cost was around $5.

You still need to do water changes, for the same reasons you do a water change a fresh tank. The nasties do not evaporate and have to be removed somehow.

Sent from my SGH-T989D using Tapatalk 2


----------



## monk21 (Dec 5, 2012)

Torx said:


> ATO's vary in price but are difficult to find one that will work on a sumpless system. Theyvalsovall have their advantages and disadvantages. I personally just use a gravity fed top off with a float valve. Total cost was around $5.
> 
> You still need to do water changes, for the same reasons you do a water change a fresh tank. The nasties do not evaporate and have to be removed somehow.
> 
> Sent from my SGH-T989D using Tapatalk 2


$5? what is this one? I will not have a sump


----------



## Torx (Jun 16, 2013)

A lot of people buy their auto top offs from autotopoff.com and there are a ton of DIY's out there. here is a link to in tank ato units http://autotopoff.com/products/DT1/

I personally just have a float valve that I got off ebay in my sump hooked up to 5 gallon bucket of water that is gravity fed from my fish room. I go through about 2 gallons a day of top up water in my 120gallon tank.


----------



## monk21 (Dec 5, 2012)

So I was just informed that for a 20g fish only with live rock of course I need

Filter with carbon, sponge and biological media
Tests for ph, nitrites, nitrates and ammonia
Some lights and not necessarily something good
Hydrometer 
Sand live or not
Thats it.

He has his like that. Any suggestions, questions etc? 


Of course later if I add corals I will buy more equipment


----------



## Torx (Jun 16, 2013)

That would do for a FOWLR as you asked "Please pay attention to the word "need"". That is all you need. Well, may want to get some salt and food n such too. 

I would get a good phosphate tester though, it will help with possible algae issues.

Personally, I would nix the filter completely. Just get a good hob skimmer. 

Corals is where you need all the fun toys.


----------



## monk21 (Dec 5, 2012)

Torx said:


> That would do for a FOWLR as you asked "Please pay attention to the word "need"". That is all you need. Well, may want to get some salt and food n such too.
> 
> I would get a good phosphate tester though, it will help with possible algae issues.
> 
> ...


Ok great. I have a hob filter I am not using so I guess it would hurt to use it right? Filters work like they do on freshwater huh?


----------



## Torx (Jun 16, 2013)

Nix the hob filter... meaning do not use one.get a hob skimmer.

Sent from my SGH-T989D using Tapatalk 2


----------



## monk21 (Dec 5, 2012)

Can u elaborate on that?


----------



## fesso clown (Nov 15, 2011)

Some people use a HOB filter but with NO media. Google "AC 110 fuge mod." Sponge and bio media will become nitrate factories. Your live rock is the only biological filter you'll need. If you use a HOB just fill it with live rock and some cheato maybe a mangrove or 2 .


----------



## monk21 (Dec 5, 2012)

fesso clown said:


> Some people use a HOB filter but with NO media. Google "AC 110 fuge mod." Sponge and bio media will become nitrate factories. Your live rock is the only biological filter you'll need. If you use a HOB just fill it with live rock and some cheato maybe a mangrove or 2 .


thanks for the reply. I need some more help though!

1) why will it become a nitrate factory? In freshwater it actually helps eliminating them and everything bad. where lies the difference?

2) since it is just a 20g, could i use the hob filter empty to act as a powerhead? Or it will be really week and i will NEED a powerhead?


----------



## Torx (Jun 16, 2013)

Elaborate on the difference between a HOB skimmer and HOB filter? First, fresh water tanks and salt water tanks are not the same thing...do not compare them. 

Secondly...no filter system is going to do what a skimmer will for you. And don't pinch pennies when you are getting your skimmer, you will only spend more in the long run if you get a cheap one. In Salt water a filter is really unnecessary. I will assume you have Live rock in the tank. That is your filter.

I think most would agree that just about any marine tank would benefit from a well-designed skimmer, because they are actually the only "filter" commonly sold that truly exports or removes nutrients as opposed to other so-called "filters" which only serve to trap and convert nutrients into nitrates. Skimmers do this by using a nifty molecular trick called foam fractionation. Some hobbyists prefer to use only a skimmer and live rock in their systems, but keep in mind there are some skimmers on the market that are worthless junk so choose wisely. 

Note: the above is not all my wording, clipped from other sites, but best explained.


----------



## fesso clown (Nov 15, 2011)

The short answer is that undissolved organics (uneaten food and fish/snail shit) gets trapped in the media and rots, this creates nitrates. 
I did the AC 110 fuge mod (Google it) and it worked OK. It did create flow in the tank but I still needed a power head.


----------



## monk21 (Dec 5, 2012)

Can I use "stability" to establish the tank? That is what I use for my freshwater and it works. On the bottle it says that it is for saltwater too.

Also the live rock I am using was until today in a sump. Does it affect it somehow? Positively or negatively


----------



## fesso clown (Nov 15, 2011)

Personally I would stray avay from products like that. I am not familiar with it, you certainly don't need it. Live rock from someone's sump is just fine so long as their system is healthy and its been down there for at least a month.


----------



## monk21 (Dec 5, 2012)

fesso clown said:


> Personally I would stray avay from products like that. I am not familiar with it, you certainly don't need it. Live rock from someone's sump is just fine so long as their system is healthy and its been down there for at least a month.


What if they took their system apart and the rock stayed in the sump with an airpump?

Btw products like that work wonders but I only know about freshwater. So how do I know that it is established? 0 ammonia and nitrites? And then? What about nitrates?


----------



## monk21 (Dec 5, 2012)

Updates

I have the tank ready but empty waiting. I have 40lb (totally wet and includes the weight of the bucket) live rock with an air pump and saltwater in a bucket.

Tomorrow I will buy sand (probably non live aragonite unless you really suggest live sand). I will also buy salt. 

Walk me through this guys!


----------



## Bayinaung (Feb 24, 2012)

monk21 said:


> What if they took their system apart and the rock stayed in the sump with an airpump?
> 
> Btw products like that work wonders but I only know about freshwater. So how do I know that it is established? 0 ammonia and nitrites? And then? What about nitrates?


If the rocks were in salt water with airpump that should be fine. You know it's a live rock if it came from a system you saw running and you can trust the seller. even in worst case scenario livesand will seed the live rock.

btw monk, I cycle my freshwater tanks about a month or two before adding fish (except a cycling fish). so you should do the same with salt water tank after getting live rock and live sand.

in a nano without a skimmer you're probably looking at 5-10 nitrates w/c is what I have. soft corals thrive on that. shouldn't have much ammonia. established for me means it's just a stable/balanced system where the live rock and equipment are managing the bioload and water parameters are not bouncing up and down and the tank can cope with small increases in bioload from occasional over-feeding etc without causing live-stock losses.

I see you're looking for someone else's setup, but those come once in a blue moon in a nano. If you're in a hurry just use the stuff you already have, get live sand and put the live rocks in the tank, make sure you have a powerhead or run the large HOB filter and let that tank cycle and start monitoring the water once every few days. That's it bud, keep looking for stuff, maybe a good HOB skimmer (SWC, bakpac, reef octopus seems like the best ones for the money out there) keep reading others' experiences online and before you know it, it's a month and your tank may have cycled. you got most stuff already. just get it cycled.

once you get started, you just learn more stuff from doing it. That's the fun part.


----------



## Bayinaung (Feb 24, 2012)

monk21 said:


> Updates
> 
> Tomorrow I will buy sand (probably non live aragonite unless you really suggest live sand). I will also buy salt.
> 
> Walk me through this guys!


Highly recommend LIVE sand (in bags) as insurance on your live rock, and to get things up and running faster. and for salt - get reef crystals or better not instant ocean.

GL.


----------



## monk21 (Dec 5, 2012)

Bayinaung said:


> If the rocks were in salt water with airpump that should be fine. You know it's a live rock if it came from a system you saw running and you can trust the seller. even in worst case scenario livesand will seed the live rock.
> 
> btw monk, I cycle my freshwater tanks about a month or two before adding fish (except a cycling fish). so you should do the same with salt water tank after getting live rock and live sand.
> 
> ...


thanks for the info. btw I have set up 8 freshwater tanks in my life and for NONE of them i waited for it to cycle. I always used used media to seed or ready bacteria (like seachem's stability and nutrafin's cycle). Always had success. That is what I wish I could do here and I will probably try it along with a couple of damsels although i am usually against that.

Anyway, yes i was looking for a ready set up but since i already found the tank and rock, that might not be necessary. I am waiting for advice on my next steps!


----------



## monk21 (Dec 5, 2012)

Bayinaung said:


> Highly recommend LIVE sand (in bags) as insurance on your live rock, and to get things up and running faster. and for salt - get reef crystals or better not instant ocean.
> 
> GL.


thanks. I found a 20pounder bag of live sand with $30. I hope it is ok. btw why not instant ocean?


----------



## monk21 (Dec 5, 2012)

Do I have to cure the live rock I got or I can just put it in the tank with sand and saltwater?


----------



## Torx (Jun 16, 2013)

IO is fine for a fowlr tank. I have ised it for years in my reef tank with no issues and great growth. I recently chabged to reef crystals, but that is only because the is all I can get locally.

Sent from my SGH-T989D using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Bayinaung (Feb 24, 2012)

monk21 said:


> Do I have to cure the live rock I got or I can just put it in the tank with sand and saltwater?


hey dude, the absolute safest way to do is to cure the live rock. BUT that defeats the purpose of what you're doing right now. It's a nano, this is your learning tank, so don't cure it. curing then reseeding the rocks takes wayyyy longer. just ask the seller if he had any pest issues in his tank. (was he on this forum?)

Salt and fish food are going to be your biggest consumables. I concur with Torx, instant ocean is fine, until you want corals or inverts (which you soon will coz... you'll want anemones for ur nemos; & corals rock way more than fish in SW!) and you can get around it by dosing but that just makes things more expensive than just buying reef crystals, and the big bucket of IO becomes more expensive. suggestion: buy a small bag of IO to start your tank, and order better salts from Dr. Fosters. shipping fee's small, no duties aside from regular HT. I'm about to order and you can go in with me if you want.


----------



## monk21 (Dec 5, 2012)

Bayinaung said:


> hey dude, the absolute safest way to do is to cure the live rock. BUT that defeats the purpose of what you're doing right now. It's a nano, this is your learning tank, so don't cure it. curing then reseeding the rocks takes wayyyy longer. just ask the seller if he had any pest issues in his tank. (was he on this forum?)
> 
> Salt and fish food are going to be your biggest consumables. I concur with Torx, instant ocean is fine, until you want corals or inverts (which you soon will coz... you'll want anemones for ur nemos; & corals rock way more than fish in SW!) and you can get around it by dosing but that just makes things more expensive than just buying reef crystals, and the big bucket of IO becomes more expensive. suggestion: buy a small bag of IO to start your tank, and order better salts from Dr. Fosters. shipping fee's small, no duties aside from regular HT. I'm about to order and you can go in with me if you want.


Send me more info with a message. Thx


----------



## Bayinaung (Feb 24, 2012)

on the salt or Dr fosters? go to their website and look it up dude.


----------



## monk21 (Dec 5, 2012)

Do I use a powerhead or in such a small tank a filter will provide enough circulation?

I was told this morning that the filter should have sponge, carbon and maybe even biomedia. Where is the truth?

Btw I am using new live sand


----------



## Toofem (Jan 20, 2013)

+1

one problem after another... just go read through my thread 55 gal noob tank... Which is actually a 46 gal noob tank  I've learned a $hit ton since I joined this site!!!

Good luck with the tank!!



Bayinaung said:


> the live rock and live sand will have bacteria. salt water cycling is wayyyyyyyyy longer than fresh water. you can check countless threads in reefcentral etc where guys set up bare tanks with dry rock and seed it with some live rock and not put anything in including corals for months.
> 
> the reasons I can think are -live rock 1) has organisms/organics that may suddenly thrive/die during the cycling time in the tank (change always triggers it) and 2) rocks always have somethings it will leech into the water like nitrates and phosphates after being moved around and you don't want that happening with fish in there. let the water get stable and balanced before any fish or coral and you're going to have much better success first time, instead of lurching from one crisis to the next. And crises in salt water are much more expensive than in fresh water LOL.
> 
> Two good accessories to have at the start: a reef test kit, & a hydrometer to test salinity of your tank water.


----------



## Bayinaung (Feb 24, 2012)

the filter media is up to you - nobody's wrong here. you got a lot of good info to get a start. 

meantime, research up on what type of fish and anemones you'd want. the fun is just starting.


----------



## monk21 (Dec 5, 2012)

thanks for all the info.

I just started.

I have

- the 20g tank set up with the live rock and live sand in there already. The live sand is 20lb which creates a 1-2" bed. The live rock is at around 25-30 pounds i would say as I left out some dead corals (i don't know how are they called) that i had.

- I filled the tank with salt water ( i REALLY need an easy way to calculate how much salt i need to be using, I can't be playing with cups and wrong quantities. i DIDN'T let the salt in the bucket overnight to dissolve for 3 reasons. 1) it dissolved real quick (in minutes) in a bucket while i was stirring it 2) I have no fish in the tank 3) I have no big bucket for the whole 20g.

- There is an air pump running in the tank now (just until tomorrow to surely dissolve any salt and an aquaclear 50 Hob running with carbon.

- full hood with open lid for better aeration (the glass lid I have was 1/10 of an inch short 

- 20" T5 high output aquaticlife 2-bulb lights (bulbs are 18"). One 10000k bulb and one actinic.

That is all for now, should I measure salinity tonight and fix it or tomorrow is ok too?


----------



## Torx (Jun 16, 2013)

2 1/2 cups per 5 gallons, pretty sure it says that on the salt directions. 

Sent from my SGH-T989D using Tapatalk 2


----------



## monk21 (Dec 5, 2012)

Torx said:


> 2 1/2 cups per 5 gallons, pretty sure it says that on the salt directions.
> 
> Sent from my SGH-T989D using Tapatalk 2


Yeah it says half a cup for a gallon but what is a cup? Can we be so vague when it comes to salt? I thought it should be a lot more specific


----------



## fesso clown (Nov 15, 2011)

Guess your not a cook eh? Gonna NEED one of these:


----------



## Bayinaung (Feb 24, 2012)

fesso clown said:


> Guess your not a cook eh? Gonna NEED one of these:


yup. that's it. . Hook up your HOB filter already - vigorous water flow is important.

throw a pinch of fish flakes in there to get the cycling process going. Measure water parameters and salinity now and in 3-4 days and post them here. don't put any carbon in yet. let stuff happen for a bit. you should see ammonia start to spike.


----------



## monk21 (Dec 5, 2012)

How many gph should a powerhead have in my tank? Where should it be mounted and what type of powerhead should I get?

Also, I have this glass lid I want to use but it is half an inch short and it can't fit in length. Any idea on what I could do to make it fit?

Updates

1) this came with the sand. what is it?


2) 
Ammonia: 0,50 - 1,00
Nitrates: 5 - 10 
Nitrites: 0
Salinity/gravity: 30 / 1.023

what do you think?


----------



## george (Apr 11, 2009)

Not sure why you are stating that IO is not good. Based on polls on RC most people use IO. Reef Crystals is used when you have a lot of corals. In the end it is up to you. Try and see which one you like more.


----------



## monk21 (Dec 5, 2012)

george said:


> Not sure why you are stating that IO is not good. Based on polls on RC most people use IO. Reef Crystals is used when you have a lot of corals. In the end it is up to you. Try and see which one you like more.


Are you asking me? sorry but I got confused as I don't think i ever said that!

Ammonia: 0,25 - 0,50 (dropped)
Nitrates: 10 - 20 (rose) 
Nitrites: 0 (steady at 0)
Gravity: 1.024 (rose)


----------



## george (Apr 11, 2009)

Sorry misread the post.


----------



## monk21 (Dec 5, 2012)

george said:


> Sorry misread the post.


no worries. any thoughts on my latest tests and picture?


----------



## monk21 (Dec 5, 2012)

proud addition to my setup, the Internal Mini Skimmer 115


----------



## monk21 (Dec 5, 2012)

Anyone around?


----------



## Bayinaung (Feb 24, 2012)

Yo, your parameters look pretty good. I guess your tank is already cycling pretty good. Ammonia is very low. did you add any fish food flakes? Dump some more in there today - a pinch that is. 

As for the thing in the pic, I can't tell what it is. It probably came from the live rocks and not from sand.

I think any low-level powerhead will do for a nano of your size. just look on vendor websites and you will get an idea of the range of GPH they move.


----------



## Bayinaung (Feb 24, 2012)

also, are you getting any skimmate on your skimmer? post a picture of the skimmer here.


----------



## monk21 (Dec 5, 2012)

Bayinaung said:


> Yo, your parameters look pretty good. I guess your tank is already cycling pretty good. Ammonia is very low. did you add any fish food flakes? Dump some more in there today - a pinch that is.
> 
> As for the thing in the pic, I can't tell what it is. It probably came from the live rocks and not from sand.
> 
> I think any low-level powerhead will do for a nano of your size. just look on vendor websites and you will get an idea of the range of GPH they move.


I am not cycling by raising ammonia by flakes etc. I know I know No one agrees with me in here but we all have our ways. I hope I do not ruin anything!

I got a 1250gph powerhead but I think it is too strong. It came with some other things so I can exchange it.

The hairy thing came with the sand for sure


----------



## Bayinaung (Feb 24, 2012)

well, I think that's fine too. remember bacteria needs food too - something to break down on. If it doesn't get it, some of them will die, and others will feed on their death.

The hairy thing looks like some sort of dead roots or chaeto algae. I'd just dump it. wouldn't worry about it. I hope you are getting good skimmate on your skimmer.


----------



## monk21 (Dec 5, 2012)

Bayinaung said:


> well, I think that's fine too. remember bacteria needs food too - something to break down on. If it doesn't get it, some of them will die, and others will feed on their death.
> 
> The hairy thing looks like some sort of dead roots or chaeto algae. I'd just dump it. wouldn't worry about it. I hope you are getting good skimmate on your skimmer.


I will post a pic of my skimmer ina bit. well yeah of course I am planning to add some kind of food pretty soon.


----------



## monk21 (Dec 5, 2012)

my filter with carbon










skimmer's collection










my heater/thermometer showing 81oF










situation under my rocks










my live rock










my powerhead which 99% is being replaced by a smaller one










the whole thing


----------



## Bayinaung (Feb 24, 2012)

cool. looks good. I'm not surprised you don't have a lot of skimmate yet. check your water parameters in 3 days and see if it's moved.


----------

