# Water Chemistry and RO



## Rigio (Jul 23, 2013)

I'm curious to know if the people on the forum that keep German blue rams use tap water or a mixture of RO/Tap water. I've been looking up information about this subject and haven't been fully convinced to make my new 50 gallon tank RO/tap. 

my tap water comes out at

ph 7.5
gh 180
kh 40

not sure about TDS, don't have a way of testing for it.

the tank will be heavily planted with the addition of co2
will i be over doing it if i added co2, peat and RO/Tap water?


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## Rigio (Jul 23, 2013)

Anyone that doesn't keep rams can chime in too , all advice is appreciated


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

You can get TDS meters, Home Depot used to have them for under $20., though I am not sure they still carry them. All they tell you is the total dissolved solids in your water. Not what is dissolved, just how much of it is solid. That includes minerals, chemicals, etc.

I've no experience with Rams, though they are very attractive fish. But if the majority of sites that discuss them recommend water that's a lot softer and lower in pH than your tap water, then RO is going to give you that result with a lot less hassle that if you attempt to modify the tap water. It's almost impossible to reliably alter the pH and hardness of the water in the GTA to be constantly and reliably softer and more acidic, because it is has a lot of calcium in it, which gives it a lot of buffering capacity. 

It's much easier to remineralize RO water to what you need it to be. Peat will acidify slightly, but if you need it more than a few points lower, it won't do the trick on its own. It will also colour the water like strong tea. You'd have to use carbon to remove the colour if it bothered you, as you would have to keep renewing the peat to maintain the effect.

Mixing tap and RO of course lowers both TDS, alkalinity and hardness, and if that is what the fish need, then that's the best way to achieve the results you require. Forget the peat. 

Remember that the difference between each point on the pH scale is much larger than it might look. Each point on the scale is 10 times higher or lower than the one above or below it. So pH 8.5 is 100 times more alkaline than 7.5, and 5.5 is 100 times more acidic than 6.5. and so on. A change of 1/10th, 8.5 to 8.4, is 10 times the difference. So peat moss can't make huge changes in pH by itself. 

But mixing RO and tap in whatever proportions you need, will give you whatever pH is needed every time. But it will also alter the hardness, which is usually measured by the KH, carbonate hardness, and GH, general hardness, tests. KH measures calcium content only, GH the total hardness of the water. If fish need much softer water, keeping them in much harder water can make it difficult for them to maintain their osmoregulation, which is the concetration of mineral salts in their bodies. That's how marine fish survive in salt water, btw, they are able to regulate how much salt they take in from it. If water has too little mineral content, you can end up with big pH swings, which are often very hard on the fish. Low or no KH can make it very hard to maintain a steady pH, so remineralizing RO water is done to avoid that. It is an added expense if it has to be done.

Do lots of research on the fish. The site 'Seriously Fish' usually has really excellent information on the original habitats and requirements of most fish, which is a good place to start, even if the fish are farmed or captive bred.

But also bear in mind that most, not all, but most, fish are fairly adaptable, and it can be much easier to use tap water and let the fish adapt, than deal with RO, particularly if you have to buy it in bottles and maybe lug it up and down stairs. 

You can install an RO filter in your home, perhaps. It at least saves lugging big bottles of water and may save some money on the cost eventually. But RO filters do waste a certain percentage of every gallon they filter, down the drain and it can't be recovered, so it will up your water usage, and the water bill, if you install one, especially if all your house water is being filtered. Or you can install the filter on only one tap, so that only that water is filtered, which would reduce the waste from the filtration process. So a bit of comparison shopping will tell you if it's cheaper than buying it bottled. Depends on how much you use of course.


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## Rigio (Jul 23, 2013)

To remineralize the RO water in theory you could use 2/3 ro water and 1/3 tap water? If I was to use peat moss I would probably skip the carbon, I don't mind the darker water caused by tannins. 

Adding a combination of RO and tap water would lower the Gh, Kh and PH correct? Would the PH swing too Much?


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

I don't use RO, for a number of reasons, and thus I cannot really advise you what to expect using it except in general terms.
I would ask a more specific question in a new post, give the parameters you want to achieve and ask how to do that using this combination of R0,tap and peat. Should get at least one or two useful answers.

But I do know that if your mix is too low in KH or GH, it can lead to pH swings from a lack of buffering capacity. Not my area of expertise again, I deal mainly with hard alkaline water so I've learned more about how it behaves. Water chemistry is complex at best and I'm still struggling to understand it all myself. Chemistry did not interest me when I was younger, now that it does, I wish I'd paid more attention in chem class.

Might ask Darkblade48, he's knows a fair bit about water chemistry. Or ask in the General Freshwater forum rather than Beginner forum. You can tell them you're new to this but you may get better answers there to your specific question. Sorry I can't tell you just what you want to know. I'm getting there on the general principles but have a way to go on some of the details.


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## Rigio (Jul 23, 2013)

Fishfur said:


> I don't use RO, for a number of reasons, and thus I cannot really advise you what to expect using it except in general terms.
> I would ask a more specific question in a new post, give the parameters you want to achieve and ask how to do that using this combination of R0,tap and peat. Should get at least one or two useful answers.
> 
> But I do know that if your mix is too low in KH or GH, it can lead to pH swings from a lack of buffering capacity. Not my area of expertise again, I deal mainly with hard alkaline water so I've learned more about how it behaves. Water chemistry is complex at best and I'm still struggling to understand it all myself. Chemistry did not interest me when I was younger, now that it does, I wish I'd paid more attention in chem class.
> ...


Thanks for your help Fishfur, I appreciate any help I can get. I'll try creating a new thread with appropriate parameters. I understand the basics of water chemistry and how each component interacts, however I've never attempted changing my water parameters to better suit my fishes needs. I just need some guidance as I feel out-of my element, and don't like to gamble when fish lives are the stakes.


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

That is always the way to go and good to hear you care enough to do the research first. Good luck.


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