# Three tanks, three substrate



## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

Some observation from my recent experience, hope this helps for people planning to set up new shrimp tanks and don't have experience with these substrates like me.

I just set up 3 x 20G Long, 1 with eco-complete, 1 with Akadama, and 1 with Netlea. My intention is to set all three up for different type of shrimps, and here is what happens, I'll let you be the judge, nothing is better or worse, it depends on what you're looking for.

- All tanks with powerhead powered UGF.
- All tanks with tap water directly since no fish or shrimp in there yet
- My tap, PH 7.8, TDS 165, GH 8, KH5


Akadama tank (10 days into cycling)
- About 2/3 of a 14L bag, cost about $35.
- PH 6.5-6.7
- GH 5, KH 1-2 (guessing from my other Akadama tank, shouldn't be far off)
- TDS 125
Pros:
- I like it, easy to work with and lower cost.
Cons: 
- colour too light to show shrimps, but I actually like it.
- hard to increase the GH, you add some and it removes some. 

Eco-complete (10 days into cycling)
- 2 bags of eco-complete, cost about $70
- PH 7.7 - 8.0 
- TDS 180
Pros:
- Supposedly good for plants.
- darker colour, shows shrimps better
Cons:
- easily out-costs the other two

Netlea (4 days into cycling)
- 1 bag, $40
- PH !!! 5.3 !!!
- TDS 135
Pros:
- darker colour, not as dark as eco-complete or FSS though
- lowers PH like there's no tomorrow
Cons:
- lowers PH like there's no tomorrow

Other thoughts,
- I set the eco-complete tank up hoping to get that tank to around PH 7.0 - 7.2 with some effort, since I read in so many places that it's supposed to be GH/KH inert, but I am not sure why for me it's almost impossible to get the GH and PH down without drastic measures. I probably should've just used Akadama since it's way cheaper and easier to work with, I didn't mainly due to Akadams's super power in striping minerals (as I want the GH to be higher, in the 5 - 8 range)

- I'd love to set one up with Fluval Shrimp Stratum.... but I think it will be even more expensive than eco-complete. Although, I wish I had used it instead of eco-complete. The other reason I chose ech-complete was that I planned to have more plants in this tank and it will host mostly Neo's and maybe tigers.

- Did I mentioned Netlea got my tap water to PH 5.3 !!! I'll try some 50% WC in a few days to see if I can get the PH to around 6.0.


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## bigfishy (Jun 19, 2009)

You can set up a Fluval plant stratum tank, Lucky's Aq sell 9L bag @ $35


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

bigfishy said:


> You can set up a Fluval plant stratum tank, Lucky's Aq sell 9L bag @ $35


Yes, I might set one up later. I already have 1 small tank with FSS and another with partial FSS. I didn't use it in the 20G Long because I know what to expect and wanted to try different things to find the properties.


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## andy335touring (Mar 14, 2012)

Thanks for sharing your test with us, it's helped point me towards my next tanks substrate


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

andy335touring said:


> Thanks for sharing your test with us, it's helped point me towards my next tanks substrate


Hi Andy, you are from UK and hang out in GTA forum? Are you from Toronto? Anyways, I'm glad my post helps.


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## YourNoob (Dec 4, 2010)

Thanks for this experiment as I am considering akadama for a future project.


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

I did something to these three tanks this evening, the result further explains what "buffer" means. These substrates don't just lower or increase certain parameters, they adjust them to certain properties.

I drained 95+% water from the eco-complete tank (PH 7.8), transferred same amount from the akadama tank (PH 6.7) to the eco-complete tank, then transferred water from Netlea tank (PH5.3) to the akadama tank, then fill the Netlea with tap (PH7.8). I did this for some reason but that's a long story and has nothing to do with this experiment so I won't mention it here.

4 hours later, here is the result

Netlea : PH 6.0 (from PH7.8 tap, this is really strong stuff)
Akadama : PH 6.5 (from PH5.3 Netlea) <-- I have to admit this is a surprise to me, thought it would stay < 6.0)
Eco-complete : PH 7.2 (from PH6.7 Akadama)

So, if someone tells me again that Eco-complete is inert to water parameters (PH, GH, KH), I have something better to go with. Mind you that the bag does say that initially it will increase the GH (don't think it mentions PH), so I'm hoping over time this PH buffering capability will diminish. 

Maybe I forgot to mention, all these substrates were fresh from new bags, not re-used stuff.


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## andy335touring (Mar 14, 2012)

randy said:


> Hi Andy, you are from UK and hang out in GTA forum? Are you from Toronto? Anyways, I'm glad my post helps.


Hi, i live in and i'm from the UK.

Some one on another forum mentioned the shrimp 101 thread and after a quick google here i am on a nice forum so i thought i'd join up.


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## Scotmando (Jul 10, 2011)

randy said:


> I did something to these three tanks this evening, the result further explains what "buffer" means. These substrates don't just lower or increase certain parameters, they adjust them to certain properties.
> 
> I drained 95+% water from the eco-complete tank (PH 7.8), transferred same amount from the akadama tank (PH 6.7) to the eco-complete tank, then transferred water from Netlea tank (PH5.3) to the akadama tank, then fill the Netlea with tap (PH7.8). I did this for some reason but that's a long story and has nothing to do with this experiment so I won't mention it here.
> 
> ...


This is great information. Thank you for your efforts!

Regards, Scott


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

Yet another update: I was really concerned about the Netlea tank (ph5.3), so I asked AI where I bought that from. Sam there was very helpful as usual and told me there are two types of Netlea CRS substrate. The ones AI has is the hard water version, as water here in the GTA isn't very soft. The PH lowering ability is stronger in this version. The soft water version isn't as powerful but may not be suitable for our water here. 

However, there's light on the other end of tunnel as he mentioned that after proper cycling and some water change, when the tank is ready, the PH should be around 6.0 and that's my original target for this tank. 

If you are wondering why there's a soft water version, for your reference, where I'm originally from (Taiwan), tap water is PH 6.5, and TDS around 20 - 30, GH is very low and KH near 0. That's perfect parameter right out of the tap. No surprise though, CRS originated in water in that part of the world.


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## enzof9 (May 29, 2012)

Hey randy, I know it's a long time coming, but which of the Netlea soils was this test conducted with? 

Thanks


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

enzof9 said:


> Hey randy, I know it's a long time coming, but which of the Netlea soils was this test conducted with?
> 
> Thanks


The CRS version, and I'm getting to love this substrate more and more.


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## Symplicity (Oct 14, 2011)

Would you say its better than ADA Africana?


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

Symplicity said:


> Would you say its better than ADA Africana?


I can't because I haven't used ADA. I'd love to set up my next tank with ADA though. ADA has been used by a few of members in this forum and I've heard a lot of good things. There are various choices from ADA, some are more prone to powderizing, I find netlea hold pretty well so far for me after 7 months.

A few things to note,
1. Netlea does release NO3 for a long time.
2. Netlea lowers PH crazy, expect ~5.2-5.3 for the first couple of months. In one of my tank, I use less than desired amount and the PH is at 5.8 after 7 months. GeToChKn on this board has a tank with 18months old Netlea and the PH lowering is still strong.


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## getochkn (Jul 10, 2011)

randy said:


> I can't because I haven't used ADA. I'd love to set up my next tank with ADA though. ADA has been used by a few of members in this forum and I've heard a lot of good things. There are various choices from ADA, some are more prone to powderizing, I find netlea hold pretty well so far for me after 7 months.
> 
> A few things to note,
> 1. Netlea does release NO3 for a long time.
> 2. Netlea lowers PH crazy, expect ~5.2-5.3 for the first couple of months. In one of my tank, I use less than desired amount and the PH is at 5.8 after 7 months. GeToChKn on this board has a tank with 18months old Netlea and the PH lowering is still strong.


That's the plus about it, it doesn't wear out that fast so less changing out the substrate.

Plus, CRS don't mind the low pH, just ask these guys. lol.


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## Symplicity (Oct 14, 2011)

Sooo many babies!

I am definately doing a minimal plant setup on my next DEDICATED shrimp tank!

Frogbit and some moss! Thats it.

I love seeing pics like yours with sooo many babies walking around.


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## camboy012406 (Jun 11, 2010)

getochkn said:


> That's the plus about it, it doesn't wear out that fast so less changing out the substrate.
> 
> Plus, CRS don't mind the low pH, just ask these guys. lol.


what are your water parameters?


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## getochkn (Jul 10, 2011)

camboy012406 said:


> what are your water parameters?


~5.5pH. 5-6gH, ~200-230TDS.


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## camboy012406 (Jun 11, 2010)

getochkn said:


> ~5.5pH. 5-6gH, ~200-230TDS.


thanks. are you saying your tank is 18mnths old still on ph 5.5? what do you use for water change?


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## chinamon (Jun 16, 2012)

i just started cycling a 10gal tank with akadama which i plan to keep BKK in. i spoke with frank and he said his BKK are kept in 5.0-5.5pH so it looks like im going to have to switch that tank to netlea. luckily i still have some left from my 30gal.

i really like the netlea but i just dont like how i am unable to put neo's in the tank with my CRS because the ph is just too low.


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## Egonsgirl (Feb 28, 2012)

Chinamon, I have my CRS (lower grade) in with my cherries, and tigers (wild -I was told), bare bottom tank with driftwood and several plants. Just a few small glass pots with a bit of eco-complete for some of my plants. I have babies running around from each of them.


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## chinamon (Jun 16, 2012)

Egonsgirl said:


> Chinamon, I have my CRS (lower grade) in with my cherries, and tigers (wild -I was told), bare bottom tank with driftwood and several plants. Just a few small glass pots with a bit of eco-complete for some of my plants. I have babies running around from each of them.


i used to have my CBS in the same tank as my cherries until i moved the CBS in to their own tank. i now have golden bees in with my cherries but the substrate is fluval shrimp stratum and my ph is around 6.8. i didnt think neocaridinas coule survive in a ph as low as 5.3 but maybe im wrong. whats your ph in that tank?


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

My CRS A/S grade breed quite well in my akadama tank. After a few failed batches the babies are surviving well. But higher grades don't do as well in akadama tanks from my experience (eg, not trying to start a debate CRS don't do well with certain substrate).

However, the do quite well in my netlea tanks. Finally I get to see nearly 100% survival rate from my SSS CBS. 3 weeks later with no visible decrease in number. I know I'll regret posting this because *&%*(@#*( always happens after I post it lol


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## camboy012406 (Jun 11, 2010)

randy said:


> My CRS A/S grade breed quite well in my akadama tank. After a few failed batches the babies are surviving well. But higher grades don't do as well in akadama tanks from my experience (eg, not trying to start a debate CRS don't do well with certain substrate).
> 
> However, the do quite well in my netlea tanks. Finally I get to see nearly 100% survival rate from my SSS CBS. 3 weeks later with no visible decrease in number. I know I'll regret posting this because *&%*(@#*( always happens after I post it lol


can u post a pic


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

camboy012406 said:


> can u post a pic


You really want to push my luck, eh? One of these days I will, but I normally get home from work after 1am (starting 9:30am) so really don't have the energy. But I will try.


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## getochkn (Jul 10, 2011)

I've had a few neos live in the Netlea soil tanks but they were newborn babies that got put in there on moss, so they may have adjusted. When I tried my snowballs in there, they all died off one by one in the tank.

The tank that photo was from I tore down and redid and used the substrate in a planted tank instead just with tap water, so the pH is higher than the ~5pH it was at, but it's still buffering and that is well over 18 months old. My new CRS tanks use a UGF with netlea and are around 5.2pH and CRS are getting breeding again in there after the tanks have stabilized and they are settled in. Redid my PFR tank with just inert gravel and a UGF and they are breeding like nuts. I like the UGF's with them, seems to really help. I had some old UGF plates from a 55gal, so I used 1 plate for a 20gal, so half the tank is UGF.


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## camboy012406 (Jun 11, 2010)

randy said:


> My CRS A/S grade breed quite well in my akadama tank. After a few failed batches the babies are surviving well. But higher grades don't do as well in akadama tanks from my experience (eg, not trying to start a debate CRS don't do well with certain substrate).
> 
> However, the do quite well in my netlea tanks. Finally I get to see nearly 100% survival rate from my SSS CBS. 3 weeks later with no visible decrease in number. I know I'll regret posting this because *&%*(@#*( always happens after I post it lol


your trying to say akadama is not good enough for higher grade crs? #%[email protected]!!! dammn I just bought 5 bags of akadama and they are now on my tanks still cycling


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## hockiumguru (Sep 16, 2012)

I have a tank set up with the Netlea Lambo soil, very similar to the Netlea CRS soil, the tank is intended for OEBT's once its cycled. Will the parameters created by the netlea soil be a problem for the OEBT's? Does anyone else keep OEBT's in the netlea soil?


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

camboy012406 said:


> your trying to say akadama is not good enough for higher grade crs? #%[email protected]!!! dammn I just bought 5 bags of akadama and they are now on my tanks still cycling


That's exactly what I didn't say ;-) High end CRS only don't do well in MY akadama tanks, well I didn't really try very hard. The SSS/SS CBS I put in there did get berried and had babies. I just find lower PH easier to deal with for bee shrimps.



hockiumguru said:


> I have a tank set up with the Netlea Lambo soil, very similar to the Netlea CRS soil, the tank is intended for OEBT's once its cycled. Will the parameters created by the netlea soil be a problem for the OEBT's? Does anyone else keep OEBT's in the netlea soil?


That's a very good substrate too from my experience, but I wouldn't use it for OEBTs. OEBT like higher PH. My OEBTs in akadama tanks just can't stop getting berried. The baby survival rate is far from my liking but I haven't had time for them.


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## hockiumguru (Sep 16, 2012)

randy said:


> That's a very good substrate too from my experience, but I wouldn't use it for OEBTs. OEBT like higher PH. My OEBTs in akadama tanks just can't stop getting berried. The baby survival rate is far from my liking but I haven't had time for them.


Will the OEBTs not survive the conditions the lambo creates?


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## camboy012406 (Jun 11, 2010)

hockiumguru said:


> Will the OEBTs not survive the conditions the lambo creates?


Just try some luck. coz I have heard they like 7-7.5 ph of water


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## hockiumguru (Sep 16, 2012)

camboy012406 said:


> Just try some luck. coz I have heard they like 7-7.5 ph of water


Haha, Id rather know before hand that they can survive in 6.0ph, 90tps. $250 is too much to chance to luck, for me.


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