# Questions aplenty - part 1



## Exothermic (Jan 21, 2008)

Hi everyone,

I have been trying to read a lot of the older postings so that I don't end up asking something that has already been dealt with before and I came across something that Zebrapl3co mentioned.



Zebrapl3co said:


> ... As for fertilizers, start with Seachem Flourish Excel. Just becareful as this doesn't go well with shrimps.


My question, for Zebrapl3co, or anyone else that might know, is what is the problem with using Flourish Excel with shrimps? I currently have a bunch of (albeit inexpensive) ghost shrimp in my 15g tank that I ultimately want to plant heavily. I would still like to be able to keep shrimp in this tank (more exotic ones too) once I have established it as a planted tank & it is running smoothly (do things really ever do that for long:confused : ). Is this likely to be a problem? If so, what can I do to allow my shrimp to co-exist with my dream of a lush planted tank?

Thanks in advance for any help you can provide!

Rob


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## Brian (Mar 14, 2006)

Its probably because it contains copper which kills shrimp when you dose repeatedly and the concentration of it gets higher.

Not a planted tank guy but that's just my guess. 

Actually... at the time of this post I was looking at a few planted tanks and am debating to turn a 35 gal into a planted tank after I sell off a couple pairs of discus.


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## Michael6 (Jan 19, 2008)

I've never used this product and I don't exactly know the reason behind this.
Here's some reviews that I found regarding this product: http://www.cichlid-forum.com/reviews/view_product_review.php?id=216
It is my understanding that the main purpose of this product is to give you easy accessible organic carbon without the expense for CO2 injection. 
Just a couple of points to consider as whether you need CO2 supplementation:
1. how's your water aeration? minimal aeration during day time doesn't need
2. how much light are you using (Watts/G)? less than 2W/G doesn't need


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## KnaveTO (May 13, 2007)

Flourish Excel doesn't contain any copper whatsoever. Excel is a carbon substitute that is used to replace CO2 in a tank. Flourish and Flourish Micro contain copper. However the quantity of copper that is in those products are miniscule and shouldn't harm shrimp. Furthermor plants require small amounts of copper and a lot of planted tank guru's (Takashi Amano for one) keep shrimp in a planted tank that is dosed with micro ferts on a regular basis.


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## Pablo (Mar 27, 2006)

Fluorish excel DOES damage invertebrates. I know this for a fact. No offense to those who disagree.

It is an algaecide, and therefore it does some sort of damage we know for sure. I have had perfect beautiful amano shrimp, used a reasonably healthy dose of excel a few times, and the shrimp are sluggish and cant even hold themselves up out of the water.


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## Exothermic (Jan 21, 2008)

Thanks to all those who took the time to respond for all your insights. I have e-mailed Seachem to see what they have to say & when (if?) I hear anything back from them I will pass it along.

Cheers!
Rob


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## Veryfishy (Jan 28, 2008)

I have had different experiences than Pablo. I use Flourish excel from time-to-time in my planted tank to get rid of hair and thread algae. To do this I double the dosage over a 2-3 day period. Never a shrimp death (cherries, ghost, algae-eating shrimps - no amanos, maybe they react differently?) or a harmed fish. 

VERY effective on the hair algae by the way.


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## Ciddian (Mar 15, 2006)

Sorry to slightly curb this question... Does it harm java moss or mosses in general?

I dosed my moss one day to try to get rid of some hair algae and the java blanched on me.. But slowly came back.

I had some small shrimps with excel before and they had been okay. I couldnt recall for you how much i was dosing though  No losses.


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## Veryfishy (Jan 28, 2008)

I haven't had any experience with Flourish Exel and mosses, but given their similarity to algae it makes sense that it might affect them too. When I do my double-dose (which I only do rarely, by the way), I do notice all my plants' growth slows for a week or so and the water lettuce suffers a bit (younger plantlets go yellow... usually bounce back ok). It's powerful stuff, no doubt about it, which is why I only do it if the hair algae is getting too out of control.


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

1) I have never had any problem with Flourish Excel and shrimp (Cherries, Ghost, Amano) - even double dosing I have never noticed any affect on them.

I have heard that Seachem Flourish has caused harm to shrimps though (due to the copper content).

2) I haven't had any trouble with mosses either, having used excel with Christmas and Java mosses (sometimes spot treating them for hair algae by removing them from the tank and placing them in highly-concentrated Excel).

I haven't had any hair algae problems since introducing my pressurized cO2 system however!


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## Brian (Mar 14, 2006)

copper sulfate is an algicide and is harmful to invertebrates also. But also when you're doing water changes, the copper in the hot water pipe or the piping can run into your tank water if you don't let the water run for a few seconds into the sink first.


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## KnaveTO (May 13, 2007)

I always let my water run for a few minutes before using it as I frequently see red tinted water in my bath when I first turn on the water


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