# Sea U Marine Worst place ever!!!



## Swizz

Hi guys didn't want to bash this place and i know many of us on this forum probably purchase fish from their and they have large variety of fish and at a reasonable price and i have been their customer for a long time spend not alot of money but a decent amount. BUT SEA U MARINE is the worst place ever i will never recommend anybody to go there ever again. The reason why that im saying such a thing is because recently i have purchase a Singapore Angel and two Maroon clown they were on sale. So when i got home i realize that the two maroon clown was very identical in size so i knew they won't get along but i gave it a try and it didnt work out so i put one of them in the sump and hopefully to swap for a smaller size one at SUM cause it sad to see a beautiful fish in a sump instead of the displace tank. So i packed the fish up when back to SUM and try to swap for small size maroon clown. And here is where the situation when off. so i when in the store ask to swap for a smaller maroon clown sale rep told me to talk to the asian guy forgot his name but doesnt matter anyways i was asking politely to swap for a small size maroon clown and his answer at first was no we dont have any and here i am looking straight at one about 1.5 inch i was like there one right there may i trade for that. Then he goes we dont do swap or trade ones the fish is out of the store we dont take it back and beside your fish is only 10 buck when you bought. so at this point i was very angry with his attitude already and he continue to try and explain why he wont take it back and pretty much looking down on me buying a 10 dollar fish which he think its a joke. At this point i couldnt help myself but teach him a little lesson of marketing and be polite to your customer. i was like first of all the value of the fish is not the problem you should not judge the fish by its value but by its beauty second i see plenty of fish die in their tanks if the value of this fish is so little to him there shouldnt be a reason why he wouldnt take it back not like i just bought a black tang or some of the more expensive fishes and want to return it and also im not even returning the fish im simply swapping for a smaller one it should be his gain and my lost. Third as an expert in this hobby and owner of a fish store shouldnt you warn your customer when they are purchasing your products, shouldnt him give me a heads up that the two fish are similar in size?? and it wont work out? clearly he didnt say anything at all which cause me to try sabotage his reputation. Forth seriously man 10 dollar fish and you wouldnt swap it to rise losing a customer that been there for year come on thats not how you do business sacrificing 10 for thousand of dollar that you potentially be able to make from me that JUST STUPID pure STUPID. But Anyway my friendly fellow forum member if you been a customer from them for years i wont ask you to stop going because i have a bad experience with them but bottom line is for the beginner in this hobby specially if you don't anything in this hobby try not to go there your just gonna disappoint yourself when you find yourself in my situation i had enough of them and thats the end of my bashing WORST FISH STORE EVER. 

IF YOU DONT KNOW THE LOCATION HERE IT IS 10 Apple Creek Boulevard Markham, ON AND if you have any bad experience with this place please feel free to drop your comment so we can share the pain together


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## sig

"...Third as an expert in this hobby and owner of a fish store shouldnt you warn your customer when they are purchasing your products, shouldnt him give me a heads up that the two fish are similar in size??"

you should know what are you buying and see what you are getting. They do not give you fish in the black box

This store is not perfect, but what you wrote in total is the biggest BS, that I ever seen on this forum

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## WiseGuyPhil

I am sorry to hear about your experience and I understand that this could be frustrating. You buy something and expect everything to work out but it doesn't in this hobby (Get use to this). I don’t want to comment on what the staff said as I was not there and I would agree with you that in any situation, there is always a better way to convey a message to customer. Instead, I want to provide you with some key things to know prior to buying fish/corals from any shops to avoid this situation in the future.

1. This to me is the biggest point... Do your own research before purchasing fish from any retailer. SUM is not a Pets Mart... They are a quick in and out shop for their fish. They let their fish acclimate 1 day if that and provide it to their customer at huge discounts. All sales are final and for good reason. If I were a retailer in this industry and had you put one of my fish in your tank, I would not take the risk of putting it back into mine and risk contamination. Those retailers who purchase fish from customers even if just recently sold will generally have a quarantine tank that is not attached to their system.

2. Do your research on the fish well before the purchase. It’s always nice to get fish on sale but to me, this situation shows a lack of knowledge of the fish purchased. Additionally, prior to having the staff close the bag I always examine the fish and corals and re-select fish or corals when required. Don't expect to staff to have all the answers.

3. Your view on value is completely incorrect. The value of a fish is determined by its rarity or its population in the wild. For example, Platinum Arowanas to me are a very plain fish yet to some people think they look beautiful. There are extremely rare and cost $80,000 because they are not ready available for aquarium use.

I hope this help as a little research does go a long way and I hope you do not have another experience like this again.


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## Jackson

Ever heard of using spaces and separating you paragraphs?

I can't bother reading past the first line


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## Tim

Sorry to hear you had a negative experience but I will echo the other sentiments here.

I can't believe that you let them choose the fish for you.  Any fish that goes into my tanks get watched and I tell the guys there (actually anywhere) which ones I want. I look for agression, size, wounds, visible parasites etc and all the other stuff. If they say they can't then I say I don't want them then.

It is understandable that you made a mistake buying one of them but if I was the store I wouldn't have touched them either. Can't take the chance on disease from your tank wiping out the store's stock. I would have bought a 3rd one that you had chosen and then offered the other on sale here or on AP. For only $10.00 people would have been tempted for sure. It had already been in your sump so it could have gone back there.

Wait what you didn't quarantine? You are playing Russian Roulette with your tank!


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## J_T

Sorry you had a bad experience. However, you are likely not going to get much support on your arguement here.

You knew that sizes would be an issue, but didn't check until it was in your tank?

Also, this may help you feel better. I shop SUM frequently (discounts without asking etc) and he wouldn't take my fish on a trade in. Offered to put a picture up, and send potential buyers my way. All because he was leary of my water. Can't blame him. I don't trust his, or anyone elses water either!

Posted with my Xperia, using Tapatalk 2


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## smcx

Wow. 

I totally agree with the OP, and not with the "screw you if you don't know better" attitude.

It's $10. Just make the customer happy and you have someone doing free advertising for you.


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## Tim

smcx said:


> Wow.
> 
> I totally agree with the OP, and not with the "screw you if you don't know better" attitude.
> 
> It's $10. Just make the customer happy and you have someone doing free advertising for you.


It isn't a screw you if you didn't know better attitude, at least not from me. He would be bringing back a fish that has been in his tank water and possibly infecting all the stores fish, and possibly screwing every person who buys a fish from the store after his return. I appreciate SUM for refusing his return.

If he didn't quarantine the fish before introducing it into his system, chances are he didn't do it to previous ones either. I wouldn't touch anything in his tank without an 8 week quarantine.

Now if he stepped out of the store turned around and said wait, are the fish the same size because I don't want a war on my hands, can you check for me, I would expect the store employee to be open to the exchange. Anything more than that no.

I wonder what great advertising SUM would get if he brought back ick, brook or marine velvet and then infected the fish YOU bought after he returned the fish?  All for the sake of $10.00?


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## smcx

They could take it back and put it in a quarantine tank. Or throw it in the garbage. It's called customer relations. Repeat business is the best way to make money, not one-time customers for $10.


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## J_T

smcx said:


> They could take it back and put it in a quarantine tank. Or throw it in the garbage. It's called customer relations. Repeat business is the best way to make money, not one-time customers for $10.


Your right, customer relations. I shop there knowing that I am not buying someone elses sicknesses. The community of customers is more valuable than the one person.

Posted with my Xperia, using Tapatalk 2


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## sig

smcx said:


> They could take it back and put it in a quarantine tank. Or throw it in the garbage. It's called customer relations. Repeat business is the best way to make money, not one-time customers for $10.


they will go out of business, because many beginners think as you and make these mistakes by buying wrong stuff without research. I am doing it even today 

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## Tim

smcx said:


> They could take it back and put it in a quarantine tank. Or throw it in the garbage. It's called customer relations. Repeat business is the best way to make money, not one-time customers for $10.


What so SUM has to quarantine the fish for 6-8 weeks because the buyer made lots of mistakes? As I said earlier, he could have just held onto it and put it up for sale here. Easy to do.

I am picking up a clownfish for the exact same reason from here. A guy had an ocellaris, he bought some maroons, the maroons beat him up, so he put an ad on here and in less than a day it was spoken for. Trading a couple of mushroom corals for it. (value $5.00 each). Easy.

Throw the fish in the garbage? Are you for real? This is a life we are talking about here. Disgusting.


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## WiseGuyPhil

Not sure a garbage is a great place for a fish that is alive and to be honest that comment was not necessary. The owner (as he is the own who accepts all responsibility after purchase) should have looked at other avenues such as posting on here. You don't buy a dog and throw it out because it barks....



smcx said:


> They could take it back and put it in a quarantine tank. Or throw it in the garbage. It's called customer relations. Repeat business is the best way to make money, not one-time customers for $10.


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## smcx

Oh jeez. There are plenty of ways to deal with the situation. I'm certainly not advocating throwing living creatures out, I was just making a point. If you can't see past that, there's no point in discussing it.


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## Jackson

wiseguyphil said:


> Not sure a garbage is a great place for a fish that is alive and to be honest that comment was not necessary. The owner (as he is the own who accepts all responsibility after purchase) should have looked at other avenues such as posting on here. You don't buy a dog and throw it out because it barks....


I agree

OP it's your fault get over it. I can't tell you how many times I've bought a fish back in the day put it in my tank only to see it get swallowed 2 minutes later. 
I didn't go back to he store or hobbyist I bought it from and blame them. It's my skill of estimating size that sucks like a Hoover so in turn it's my fault/mistake.

So it's your mistake you didn't estimate size well. 
It's your mistake to assume they'll swap your fish. You should of called first.

Stop being a saboteur over your own mistake. 
You say clearly he should of said something that why I try to sabotage his rep. Thats F'ing insane!

I think you're degrading yourself more than you're sabotaging his rep.


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## smcx

I bought a frag from the menagerie. it was covered in bryopsis and bubble algae. Pretty much everything in their tanks was covered in it. I developed a bryopsis problem.

I should have known better right? 

The point is to post things like this to make the new people aware so they don't make as many costly mistakes. I did craploads of reading before purchasing the bryopsis. There is very little good material out there to learn from.


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## J_T

smcx said:


> I bought a frag from the menagerie. it was covered in bryopsis and bubble algae. Pretty much everything in their tanks was covered in it. I developed a bryopsis problem.
> 
> I should have known better right?
> 
> The point is to post things like this to make the new people aware so they don't make as many costly mistakes. I did craploads of reading before purchasing the bryopsis. There is very little good material out there to learn from.


Lots of good info out there. You are posting on a very active forum. And a quick internet search will point you to many more. Info is there if you look for it.

This is a $10 lesson to be learned. I wish some of my life lessons on cost me that much!

Post the fish for sale on the forum, move on. I think this topic has about run its course.

Posted with my Xperia, using Tapatalk 2


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## Jackson

smcx said:


> I bought a frag from the menagerie. it was covered in bryopsis and bubble algae. Pretty much everything in their tanks was covered in it. I developed a bryopsis problem.
> 
> I should have known better right?
> 
> The point is to post things like this to make the new people aware so they don't make as many costly mistakes.  I did craploads of reading before purchasing the bryopsis. There is very little good material out there to learn from.


It's not about what you bought this is about some guy going off over a healthy oversized fish. In what world is a healthy over sized fish an issue? Oh yah when the buyer doesn't have room or a place to accommodate their new responsibility/fish/pet/whatever

You are missing the point of the OP's post.

It's not to educate others on don't be careless and buy fish without asking questions or knowing what you're buying.

Their mission is to bitch and complain about their mistake and SABOTAGE the rep of a store who probably has no clue this is going on. It's a childish mentality.


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## bigfishy

I am not too sure about the no trade in, because Ken has offered me a buy back, if my bumble bee grouper out grow my tank


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## damsel_den

OP take this as a lesson.

Research before you buy, and if you don't then make sure you have the room to keep it until you can find other arrangements because there's always a chance its not going to work out. 
. 
Choose your own fish (or atleast look at them before you leave the store).
Ok like if I want say 2 chromis out of a huge tank with say 50 chromis in it, I'm not going to pick out the exact 2 I want. But I will look them over before I leave the store. 

Understand why they won't take them back, if you were to spend money on a black tang or something worth some $$ .. would you want it to come with a disease because they took in some persons fish? 
Eventually when you pick up a fish one day and infect your tank and loose your favourite fish or all of your fish or introduce somthing that takes out all your coral you will wish that store didn't accept trade ins.


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## RevoBuda

No Offense guys... but bottom line, we're all enabling a culture of entitlement here. If you make a mistake, own up to it.

Whatever happened to people realizing they F'ed up? Or will that hurt your feelings? Companies have policies, and sometimes we may not agree with it and choose not to work with that company again. This doesn't mean the company sucks or that they are 'unfair'; it's their business and if they weren't good at it, they wouldn't be successful.

So to the *OP*- sh!t happens. Deal with it, don't whine. Try to sell it here on GTA and don't ever shop at SUM again.

I'm not a Salty, so I couldn't care less. I just hate it when I hear people bitch and complain and everyone wants to give them their 'participant badges' to make them feel all warm and fuzzy.

Let me ask you, if the power goes out and your tank goes to crap, will you call the Hydro company and demand they pay you for your losses? Or is that your fault for not running it on a back up system?

I am sick and tired of hearing people whine, at what age do people begin realizing their are no gaurantees in life and we have to accept things as being what they are?

We've all screwed up. Learn from it, it will make you a better keeper of these precious creatures.

Just my two cents - sorry if any body disagrees with me. I just needed to air this out.


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## iGeeve

I have to agree with the OP in the sense that if you go to your LFS, yes, you should know what you're buying; but at the same time, the "expert" should also be there to catch your mistakes and advise accordingly. If I walked in to Big Al's and purchased a bag of salt, a 10g nano, and a Hippo Tang, I would expect the "expert" to say, "Hey, do you plan on putting that fish in that tank AND right now?"


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## smcx

igeeve said:


> i have to agree with the op in the sense that if you go to your lfs, yes, you should know what you're buying; but at the same time, the "expert" should also be there to catch your mistakes and advise accordingly. If i walked in to big al's and purchased a bag of salt, a 10g nano, and a hippo tang, i would expect the "expert" to say, "hey, do you plan on putting that fish in that tank and right now?"


exactly!!!


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## solarz

iGeeve said:


> I have to agree with the OP in the sense that if you go to your LFS, yes, you should know what you're buying; but at the same time, the "expert" should also be there to catch your mistakes and advise accordingly. If I walked in to Big Al's and purchased a bag of salt, a 10g nano, and a Hippo Tang, I would expect the "expert" to say, "Hey, do you plan on putting that fish in that tank AND right now?"


Ha, that's a good one. I can't count the number of times I've browsed BA or Pet Smart, and overheard people purchasing a tank and fish at the same time. Not *once* has any salesperson asked that question.

Remember that these are salespeople first, fish keepers second (if that).


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## Kooka

Swizz, everyone on this forum has been a beginner in the hobby at one point. I still am a saltwater noob that is constantly learning new things. I've been to SUM several times and I think that the owner runs a very responsible operation there. Instead of whining and complaining about a store that wouldn't take back a fish you bought there, you should instead try selling or donating it to a fellow hobbyist and in the process perhaps learning from your mistake and properly researching next time you plan on adding anything to your tank.

And I don't think anyone is trying to sound mean when they say that you should try to add a little proper grammar next time you post. It would be much easier for the rest of us to follow along and understand what you're saying.


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## solarz

Kooka said:


> Instead of whining and complaining about a store that wouldn't take back a fish you bought there, you should instead try selling or donating it to a fellow hobbyist and in the process perhaps learning from your mistake and properly researching next time you plan on adding anything to your tank.


In fact, I don't trust stores that have a livestock return policy *cough*petsmart*cough*.

It tells me that they're more interested in catering to "revolving door" beginners than serious aquarists.

Frankly, I'd much rather shop at a place where I might lose a 10-20$ purchase, than a place where my 5$ purchase might wipe out my entire tank.


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## sig

I do not go to John anymore and not because he screwed me twice, but because he's lady called me cheap person 

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## iGeeve

solarz said:


> Ha, that's a good one. I can't count the number of times I've browsed BA or Pet Smart, and overheard people purchasing a tank and fish at the same time. Not *once* has any salesperson asked that question.
> 
> Remember that these are salespeople first, fish keepers second (if that).


Agreed, and I think that applies largely to chains such as BA or PetSmart. They are mostly staffed by teens and part-time students. My assumption is that when one decides to choose a smaller LFS, that they go for the professional opinion and personal touch you would expect from someone who is legitimately in the hobby.

Side note, I've never been to SUM, so I can't comment directly on them.


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## sig

Let's boycott all LFS and run them out of business. these bastards........ 

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## Jackson

sig said:


> Let's boycott all LFS and run them out of business. these bastards........


Should we start with SUM? Lolol


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## solarz

iGeeve said:


> Agreed, and I think that applies largely to chains such as BA or PetSmart. They are mostly staffed by teens and part-time students. My assumption is that when one decides to choose a smaller LFS, that they go for the professional opinion and personal touch you would expect from someone who is legitimately in the hobby.
> 
> Side note, I've never been to SUM, so I can't comment directly on them.


SUM is not too bad, although I only buy their specials.

I actually prefer another store located nearby in First Markham Place. I forget the name, but it has two of the most awesome display tanks. Sad to say I've only bought 2 ocellaris clowns from there, but those were my first saltwater fish.


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## sig

Finally mods took action 

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## zk4444

Kooka said:


> Swizz, everyone on this forum has been a beginner in the hobby at one point. I still am a saltwater noob that is constantly learning new things. I've been to SUM several times and I think that the owner runs a very responsible operation there. Instead of whining and complaining about a store that wouldn't take back a fish you bought there, you should instead try selling or donating it to a fellow hobbyist and in the process perhaps learning from your mistake and properly researching next time you plan on adding anything to your tank.
> 
> And I don't think anyone is trying to sound mean when they say that you should try to add a little proper grammar next time you post. It would be much easier for the rest of us to follow along and understand what you're saying.


Well said. Bottom line is sh*t happens to us all.

If OP hadn't taken home the wrong fish, the whole incident/confrontation wouldn't have occurred in the first place --cut your losses and move on bud.


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## 50seven

Thanks to sig for putting some much needed humour into this thread. 

I've always tried to avoid being a part of a flame war, but dude this is stupid. 

I just went to the bank and they told me their withdrawal policy from the teller, as its not my home branch. To make a long story short, it made some trouble for me, but it was their policy...

..so I jumped up on the counter and stomped and screamed and posted a bash thread on all my favourite forums and told what an awful branch it is and I'm never going back!!!!! 

Good grief, get over it dude. The store has its own policies, whatever the reason. It's their prerogative. That's what stores do. 

I can understand that you were bummed about it, I would too and I've been there... but enough to write up a whole rant thread? For crying out loud, you might have some entitlement issues. You're free to bring your business elsewhere, but don't be surprised if more and more you find stores that you won't patronize that attitude. I once dealt with a dude who complained to me all the wrongs of another tradesman and was all impressed with mine; but when I did my work for him, the story changed and he wouldn't pay the full bill. It's no wonder with an attitude like that, his only friend is a Franciscan monk. 

I'm glad that he refused your return, as I don't want the fish I buy to be contaminated with your attitude. I'll go give Ken some extra business this weekend. 

And yes, we shamelessly defend Ken and SUM because they are awesome. 

/end rant 

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


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## KG20

"displace tank"


hahahahahaahahahah


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## rburns24

Whether you are buying a fish or a car, buyer beware "always" applies.


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## tom g

*sum*

i saw this post first thing this morning and thought to myself wow this is gonna be a doooosey.lol and it sure is .

i think and again its me thinking here that communication was the fault of both parties .yes the original purchaser should of chked the fish first before leaving store .that would of made sense and solved this right off the bat.
second i was not there so cant comment on what ken said or how he said it to cust . if ken per say would of explained why he would not take back the fish ie: diesese or not knowing the custs water quality i can totally understand that , but on both parties this could of been solved with out this extreme of a name calling or bashing .
lots of scenerios here , but again if u are pissed off with him dont go back .
the solution most prob would of been to take the loss , and offer it up on this site it would of been snagged up no problem .
IMHO cust service goes along way but we also have to respect business to have a set or rules that are not wishy washy .


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## talon

What's OP stand for?


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## tom g

*sum*

i believe it stands for "original poster " correct me if i am wrong .


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## zk4444

talon said:


> What's OP stand for?


OP = *O*riginal *P*oster, i.e. thread starter.


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## WiseGuyPhil

More stuff for me.... Thanks 



Jackson said:


> Should we start with SUM? Lolol


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## Rappyfly

Ken at SUM is a business man, not a hobbyist. He runs his store like a poppy mills, just want money to flow in, fast in and out. I won't buy live stock from SUM, because they don't seem to care their animals when they have them. I am a hobbyist: I want and love to see live stock in healthy and stable condition before purchase. It was like extreme marine: too many live stock, limited tank space. One store actually show me his mark up practice: at least 3 time the landed cost. Break even is to lose at least 67% of the whole shipment.


Ken at Reefaquarium is a hobbyist and a business. He cares his live stocks and dont over stocked his tanks. 

Reef tank was a way more expensive hobby in the 90's. Keeping a frogspawn coral was challenge, not to mention a brown acro.

Don't under estimate some Big Al's employees, I know few has very good experience in saltwater stuff, with great service. Trade in shall be more problem when a good relation is established and he know your tank condition.


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## fury165

wow quite the thread...

I've made lots of purchasing mistakes that cost lots more than 10.00, at the end of the day it was no one else's fault but mine for not paying attention, impulse buys or not doing my research first. (really?...I shouldn't have put that cool Lionfish in with my prized $300.00 a pair designer clownfish????? WTF, why didn't you tell me!)

Ken is a good guy, but he is a business man period and while I seek his advice, I balance it with what I've learned through research and experience. 

Chalk it up to experience and take your business elsewhere.


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## Jackson

I've never been to the store and don't know Ken.

I do know when someone is wrong though.


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## solarz

Rappyfly said:


> One store actually show me his mark up practice: at least 3 time the landed cost. Break even is to lose at least 67% of the whole shipment.


I'd just like to point that you're only factoring in the livestock cost, and not the costs of the entire operation.


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## KG20




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## bigfishy

omg, you guys still arguing over this??? let it slide already!


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## Rappyfly

solarz said:


> I'd just like to point that you're only factoring in the livestock cost, and not the costs of the entire operation.


It was how he priced the fishes and corals as I pointed out the cost on the invoice. He even told me the ratio on fresh water stuff even higher, which keep the store going.

To me, if am a dog lover, I probably won't recommand buying dogs from pj's. I hate fishes floating in the water like they were on drugged and coral melting away polluting the water.


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## rickcasa

bigfishy said:


> I am not too sure about the no trade in, because Ken has offered me a buy back, if my bumble bee grouper out grow my tank


I think Ken has a right to choose who's fish he can trust to take back. Just like in other businesses you have to build a relationship to get the perks. I wouldn't take back a stranger's fish either if only for the reason that I don't know what it's been exposed to.

Having said this, I too have had many issues with his fish/product which, for the most part, Ken has resolved to my benefit... because I've earned it. Likewise, he's earned my business.

An example. I came home with a fish belly up. i didn't have time to go back right away. In fact I didn't return to the store for 3 weeks but when I brought up the dead fish issue, I got an instant discount.

This hobby will test your patience in every way imaginable so keep your emotions in check.

Btw, another belly up leopard wrasse in the bag...wtf..I feel a rant coming!!


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## rickcasa

sig said:


> I do not go to John anymore and not because he screwed me twice, but because he's lady called me cheap person


Lol. . Sig's trying to hijack this rant. Start your own rant thread Sig!! 
Btw, I agree with you. She sold me an anthias twice it's cost and when I told John about it on my next visit he compensated. 
Bide your time.


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## ameekplec.

Not to beat a dead horse, but do your research, live up to your f*ups, and move on. 

As far as I've come to know it, that's everything in life. 

Now let this thread go to sleep.


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## Zebrapl3co

Here, let me lock it. Sorry it took me so long to get around to this thread. I was going to delete it as spam before the first reply was posted. But seeing how it might go into another round of "Free speech" bitching. I was kind of hopping no one notice and this thread will die a quick death.
Good thing you guys are mostly friendly, so no harm done. But it highlights why we mods some time delete complain threads from users with low post counts. They would create an account, make their complaint and then took off and never come back. But all the while, the thread itself took on a life of it's own and we'll have frequent posters going at each others' throat. So these kinds of thread rarely do the forum any good. Anyway, enough ranting ...

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