# Ideas for a New Reef Tank



## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

The tank would be 65 gallons, dimensions are 36"L x 18"D x 24"H.

Here are my ideas:

- 4" Deep Sand Bed for denitrification. Aragonite sand is expensive, considering using a 2" layer of silica play sand on the bottom. Diatom bloom: myth or reality? Trochus snails and hermit crabs to control diatoms, if necessary?

- Don't have an RO unit, don't plan on getting one. Will have to use tap water. Any issues for SPS?

- Use chaeto and some kind of sea grass for nutrient export. Use AC 110 as chaeto refugium. Sea grass planted directly in display tank. Helps balance DSB? Rate of growth sufficient for nutrient export? Would sea grass roots prevent toxin accumulation in DSB? Any need for additional aeration or even CO2 injection?

- What kind of filter and skimmer? No sump, don't want to deal with pipes. Any all-in-one options?

- Are LED lights viable for an SPS tank? If so, which ones are recommended?


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## macKRAZY (Feb 15, 2012)

i will be following this thread as im cycling my 15 gallon right now... 
i hope no one trashes you and your plans instead of just answering the questions


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

macKRAZY said:


> i will be following this thread as im cycling my 15 gallon right now...
> i hope no one trashes you and your plans instead of just answering the questions


you can not compare 15G and 65G 

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## macKRAZY (Feb 15, 2012)

what does the size of my tank have anything to do with my curiosity in a DSB? tap water obviously will affect both tanks...
LED, filters and skimmers obviously apply to any tank...

i dont understand whats not to compare? i would obviously convert #s so that it can apply to my 15


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

with 15G you will be perfectly survive with the weakly water changes, but 65is more complicated to run as "natural" tank. We have few guys, who tried and it did not work

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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

sig said:


> with 15G you will be perfectly survive with the weakly water changes, but 65is more complicated to run as "natural" tank. We have few guys, who tried and it did not work


Well, that's the fun part, trying and learning, right?


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## macKRAZY (Feb 15, 2012)

thank you solarz and sorry for disrupting you thread.. i come here for info and knowledge


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

macKRAZY said:


> thank you solarz and sorry for disrupting you thread.. i come here for info and knowledge


No worries, I'd love to hear about your setup!


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## andco (Aug 15, 2011)

I am going to have to agree and disagree with your point Greg. 

I agree that they are different in the sense of developing a "natural" tank. However, it all comes down to patience, IMO.

Small marine tanks (I consider small less than 40 gallons) are very easy to maintain, in the sense of water changes ..something goes wrong, you can typically fix it quick with some cycled water.. 

Larger tanks are not so easy to do this with, thus "natural" tanks are always better IMO. However, having enough "natural" life in the tank to handle the bioload is difficult. They key I have found with larger tanks, is to take it slow (similar to 80's style reef keeping). Pods, bristleworms, mysids, all take time to reproduce to an amount that can handle the load. What I have done is added a couple fish and waited a couple weeks or longer. A few days before adding more, I would "overfeed" to see if the life in the tank could handle it all. If water tests came back good after a few days, I stopped feeding for a day, then added the fish. Again water testing is crucial, along with a solid 5% water change. WASH, RINSE, REPEAT until you have the amount of fish desired / able to survive in the size of the tank.

As to your questions you originally asked:

Deep sand beds are good, but I would use aragonite on the whole bottom, not silica.. if your fish do sift the sand and they are sifting silica, they could scratch the inside of their gills and cause infections. Plus for that size of a tank, you would be looking at $50 more ..in the long run, worth every penny.

I never used an RO unit before. Once I started switching over to RO, there was a huge difference in corals and invert health. Especially if you are in the GTA. Our drinking water is brutal, especially during hot spells (increased chlorine doses).

Initially also use cheato in your actual tank ..preferably clipped on the side or in an area easily removed. Then once your refugium is well underway, remove the tanks reminants

No Sump?? I have a 50 gallon with no "sump", but added a 10 gallon above it for additional water. Basically, if you are looking for strictly hang on filters, run a few AC110's and a Seaclone or Prism skimmer. But I will warn you that having only the light in your tank to rear / support small invertebrate life (essentially, the "natural" part of the tank), will be challenging. A sump or additional AC110 with chunks of live rock and a 23 watt compact flourescent on it, will help

LED's? They are the latest craze for sure... I still can't wrap my head around the cost of them though. They seeem to always be getting higher and higher wattages .. I can't justify spending $400 on a LED unit bright enough to grow corals, yet my 250watt MH that cost me $100 will do just fine ..and would take almost 3 years of electricity to make up that extra $300. 

Another interesting thing about LED's... I tried a MarineLand LED strip that apparently was 30watts.. I plugged it into my kilowatt meter and it read 42 was being drawn out constantly. 

Best of Luck... Sounds like you know what you are doing, but I would strongly recomend a sump


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

I am reading and trying to understand in what you disagree with me 
You forgot very important thing, that tanks with all HOB are look ugly.I think everybody here who went from the small tank to the big( despite refusing to have a sump or RODI 9 on the small tank) finally got the sump and RODI.
Any way good luck to our friend Solarz and in few months we will answer his new question how to make a sump 



andco said:


> I am going to have to agree and disagree with your point Greg.
> 
> I agree that they are different in the sense of developing a "natural" tank. However, it all comes down to patience, IMO.
> 
> ...


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

A few things I forgot to mention:

- the tank will be placed beside an East-facing window that gets a lot of direct sunlight in the morning hours. I hope to take advantage of that for the chaeto and any sea grass I can get to grow.

- the lower the initial cost of the setup, the better chance I have of getting approval from the boss (i.e. wife); the really expensive stuff can always come in later... 

LED vs Metal Halide vs T5HO:

- LEDs cost more upfront, but uses less electricity and, theoretically, lasts much longer than either. They're also more focused (i.e. less spillage) and generate less heat. Those are the factors that attracts me to LED, though I'd love to hear about some actual experiences.

Sump:

- I'm lazy. I don't even like assembling the stand, nevermind getting the tank drilled and fitting pipes and a sump! 

- Although now that I think about it some more, the HOB _is_ pretty ugly...


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## andco (Aug 15, 2011)

Greg, sorry I read it wrong clearly lol 

Solarz, Yes the cheato will grow, but so will your algae on the glass ..lots of cleaning lol .. but never the less, the corals I have that get natural sunlight always look better than under any lighting condition .. besides the fake blue's to make their colours pop out


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

on 65G and using tap water. i will recommend to run phosban reactor with phospate removal media. Assuming that you will do it, you will get another ugly piece of ugly equipment on the back of the tank + one output and intake with MaxiJet in the tank.
Using AC110 make this media useless since there is not enough flow. I was using Chemipure in AC110, but it is expensive.

I am not sure about your boss, my my boss was very supportive after having 80G not drilled with ugly HOBs (skimmer, refusiom, Phosban reactor, AC110) and hearing constant noise from all this crap. It lasted just 3 months and she told me go with the sump.
I know you probably will have no choice, but put the tank in the place of the old one, but why you just do not paint a back and all your problems with algae will be gone.

I am very close to you and you can drop to my home any time for the consultation how to make quiet set up, just PM me for the address

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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

ON AP for sale and I also seen one here

65Gal complete with cabinet and sump

Asking Price 
$300.00 Excellent
Description:

Complete system. 65 Gal with cabinet and sump . T5 HO with Guiseman 6month bullbs. Mag 7 return, Skimmer, heater, sand, moonlights, powerbars and 4 timers. Fill, plug in and enjoy.
Your Location (City or area of city) - REQUIRED: Caledon/Brampton/Mississau

-----------------------------------------

65G Reef ready setup

Asking Price 
$350.00 Good
Description: This setup comes with:

Stand, 65g 36x18x24 tank driled @ back with 2 1.5 bulkheads
Full plumbing currently setup for Herbie with return over the back
Baffled Sump
Skimmer
DIY Hood with fans and a Sunlight Supply Teklight 4 bulb, bulbs about 6-8 months

possibly some other things I haven't thought of adding lol

Add your own return pump and livestock and you're good to go.

Used? = Yes, Scratches? = some minor I think, Medicated? = Never... can use some tlc, cleaning etc...

Hamilton

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## fury165 (Aug 21, 2010)

LEDs are worth it IMHO, even with the upfront costs. Consider the cost of replacement bulbs and the fre
quency they need to be changed. What about the fact that they generate none to next to none heat to the tank - no chillers required. 

As for the RODI unit, consider the investment in time, effort and money you will have in your tank (wrt livestock). A couple of hundred dollars is a small price to pay to ensure you are putting the best quality water into your system.... You really want to leave it to chance or he hydro company? 

As for the sump, consider it one of the best things you will do for your system - added water volume, a place to hide all that unsightly equipment as Sig mentioned and the best place for your chaeto and deep sand bed - but that is a another discussion unto itself. 

Take it slow, do lots of research and do it right


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## macKRAZY (Feb 15, 2012)

see sig, im learning lol now i dont have to ask questions later when i get a bigger tank!


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## 50seven (Feb 14, 2010)

solarz said:


> - 4" Deep Sand Bed for denitrification. Aragonite sand is expensive, considering using a 2" layer of silica play sand on the bottom. Diatom bloom: myth or reality? Trochus snails and hermit crabs to control diatoms, if necessary?


Not sure about the silica sand, but I don't think it would stay very white. Search around on RC to see if anybody has successfully use it in a reef. The diatom bloom often happens in new tanks, but dies off when there's nothing left to feed it. The silica sand would just provide an endless supply of food for it. Apparently, but I'm no biologist.

if you want cheap sand, keep an eye out in the classifieds and slowly accumulate it. I know bigfishy was at the saltie BBQ earlier this month selling a 20L pail of sand that I sold him last year...


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

50seven said:


> Not sure about the silica sand, but I don't think it would stay very white. Search around on RC to see if anybody has successfully use it in a reef. The diatom bloom often happens in new tanks, but dies off when there's nothing left to feed it. The silica sand would just provide an endless supply of food for it. Apparently, but I'm no biologist.
> 
> if you want cheap sand, keep an eye out in the classifieds and slowly accumulate it. I know bigfishy was at the saltie BBQ earlier this month selling a 20L pail of sand that I sold him last year...


Ah, but as I understand it, aragonite binds phosphate, so any used sand will be a huge source of phosphate.


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## Shoryureppa (Jul 1, 2011)

Ideally you want sugar sized sand for a DSB. I will be attempting the same thing 4.5 inches on a 4x2x2 tank with a sump running chaeto, skimmer etc. I bought about 270 lbs of caribe sea sugar sized sand. If you want to know where to get it cheap at about 60 cents/lb, pm me. Good luck and I hope it works out well.


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Go with the aragonite - for the cost savings, you're really not saving much when you consider the issues you'll have later on. You'll probably have some amount of mixing as well, so beyond all the other practical issues, it'll probably look bad.

As for the actual issues, the silicates are a pretty significant issue as the additional source constantly coming from within the tank are probably never going to go away. Also, an issue is the packing of the play sand - the particle sizes will probably play a significant role in creating a large difference in the diffusion of substances through the DSB, and if the difference in grain size from the aragonite to play sand is significant, you might encounter issues with boundary zones and transitions between anoxic and normoxic zones not occuring optimally resulting in your DSB not working as well as it could.

Also, go with RO/DI. It'll cost you $200 now, but it'll also save you from having to deal with a lot of other issues down the road.

As for your mixed SPS/planted approach, as much as many tanks look like they're going for that, the truth is that it's a tough system to try to start up. For one, seagrasses usually require quite nutritious sand beds, something you won't have as it's a fresh system. Also, the roots will probably again disturb your DSB, unless it's sufficiently deep.

As for the plumbing aspect, suck it up and get a real system. As Greg said all that crap hanging off the side of the tank is loud and an eyesore. On my 20g tank I had a sump and stand and I crammed all sorts of crap in the stand and sump. And it was all worth it as the space you save up top is more space for you to place coral and have a larger unobstructed space within the tank.

One final note, a 4" DSB in a SPS tank will turn into a 1" sand bed here and there because of currents, etc etc. 6" is really what you need to be going for IMO to account for unevenness in your substrate.

As Greg pointed out, there are lots of 65g systems available. And if there's one place you can usually score a good deal is on the actual tank/stand/plumbing setup from people taking down their tanks. There are good areas to save money and there are areas where you could skimp now, but it'll cost you much more in time and money and frustration later, especially in a high light SPS tank. Might as well do it right the first time and be satisfied, rather than try to cut corners before you're good at cutting corners.


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## devin98 (Jan 29, 2012)

I agree your number one item should be the RO/DI unit, Aquasafe on ebay has them fairly cheap. Without good water quality anything you do will be for not. You will have large Algae outbreaks, keeping SPS will be a challenge if not impossible.

Aquasafe;
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/AQUARIUM-II-...liances_US&hash=item3a743ac1d8#ht_5573wt_1090

For $120 shipped it will be the best investment you make

-Devin


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## JayPetro (Feb 8, 2012)

Don't skimp out, get the sump, get the ro/di unit, led are goodbut expensive up front, the color you'll get from a good led fixture will make you feel you're on another planet or something...just stunning...deep sand bed is good...maybe research the jaubert/morocco system, larger grain size is better to avoid packing but not ideal for seagrass which does not do much in terms of phosphate removal..chaeto is better but in a real sump where it had room to grow, not an ac110, I've used this for a couple months but realize now that it does much better in my new refugium...hob skimmers are also less effective than most in sump skimmers...just research research research. It's not the easiest thing putting a sump into a running system, I've done it and it didn't happen overnight. Good luck to you and make sure you're making the best decision now to avoid problems later.
Also + 1 ameekplec
Have fun with it, there are many approaches, make sense of it all


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

On the subject of silicates and diatoms:

http://www.saltcorner.com/Articles/Showarticle.php?articleID=63

Some good points raised by the article:



> Silicate is used by diatoms in the formation of their frustules (a glass-like "shell" in which the diatom lives), and it is true that in some cases addition of silicate to an aquarium can result in diatoms getting a competitive edge over other algae. That is not the whole story, however. I'm sure that if I asked you what fuels the growth of hair algae or some other "pest" species, you would tell me nitrogen and phosphorous, and that is why reef aquarists strive to keep the concentration of compounds such as ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and phosphate at low levels in their aquaria. Well, the fact is that diatoms are no different from any other species of unsightly and unwelcome algae in an aquarium - they need nitrogen and phosphorous just like hair or slime algae do; they just need silicate in addition to those other compounds. The concentration of silicate by itself has no bearing on whether or not you're likely to have an algal growth problem in an aquarium, it just determines whether or not diatoms are able to be part of the algal community that is using the available nutrients or not.





> Some diatoms (such Chaetoceros or Pseudonitzschia) can have chemical or physical defenses to avoid being eaten as well, but the majority of diatoms are substantially less defended and more commonly consumed by marine animals than are the dinoflagellates.
> 
> Craig Bingman recently reviewed the amount of silica in artificial salt mixes, and wrote an excellent article on silicon and aquarium husbandry that suggests that it is not only good, but ought to be recommended that you maintain enough silicate in a reef system such that diatom growth was high enough to necessitate cleaning the glass every day or two. I'd have to say that I agree that this is a sign of a healthy system, and that diatoms are an important part of marine food chains to maintain in any reef aquarium. Rather than being upset that you need to clean your glass daily, you should be happy that for the effort of regularly scraping your glass, you have a highly nutritious unicellular organism in your tank that not only competes with less desirable species (such as hair and slime algae) for nutrients, but packages those nutrients in ideal little bundles that are an important source of food for a lot of grazing and suspension feeding animals on the reef.


Any thoughts?


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## msobon (Dec 7, 2011)

I'm not sure how long you've been in the SW hobby world but here's some advice I've learned over the years I've been in the hobby.

Never cheap out by forgoing certain equipment, typically what ends up happening you will buy undersized equipment trying to save a buck and you end up paying twice because eventually you end up with the proper equipment.
Also chances are things will go south where you end up loosing your life stock which will cost you to replace.

You want this hobby to be enjoyable, sumps, skimmers, proper sandbed etc are there to help you with the success of your SW tank, they make it easier to keep a healthy reef.

I won't lie that the hobbie isn't a money sink, it truly is... Good news is there's ways to save and not cut corners!!
You can find a lot of the equipment you need second hand on forums such as this one for a fraction of the cost of new, remember you can always bargain. I always prefer getting something of quality that's used over something that's new cost the same as the used item but doesn't quite deliver. Also smething to remember cheap equipment has higher tendencies to fail that will most likekely have negative effects on your system.

Think of the equipment as life support, without it you really can't keep a piece of the ocean in your living room.

Hope it helps, if you have questions I'm more than happy to answer themand even do a full walk through of a live system if you like.



solarz said:


> The tank would be 65 gallons, dimensions are 36"L x 18"D x 24"H.
> 
> Here are my ideas:
> 
> ...


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## Shoryureppa (Jul 1, 2011)

I agree with this. Key to a decent system requires good equipment. Correcting damage done with under powered equipment is very expensive. I bought some Koralias for my 30 gallon and I cannot tell you how many you need to prevent dead spot from collecting crap. It wasn't until I put 2 MP40's in it that it came to life. If you could've seen how cloudy my tank was when those powerheads were installed. That is just one of the many many mistakes I made. Expensive mistakes but you live and you learn.

ALways have fun though and never take it too seriously 



msobon said:


> I'm not sure how long you've been in the SW hobby world but here's some advice I've learned over the years I've been in the hobby.
> 
> Never cheap out by forgoing certain equipment, typically what ends up happening you will buy undersized equipment trying to save a buck and you end up paying twice because eventually you end up with the proper equipment.
> Also chances are things will go south where you end up loosing your life stock which will cost you to replace.
> ...


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

Thanks guys for all the comments! They're certainly giving me more things to think about.

I would like to clarify something, however. I do not believe in cutting corners or in buying cheap but under-performing equipment. I want to create a reef setup as cheaply as possible, but that doesn't mean copying a high tech setup with cheaper equipment.

There are 3 elements to keeping corals happy: good light, good water quality, and good flow. I plan on having as much flow as necessary and as much light as necessary.

So that leaves water quality. Water quality is basically nutrient control, which boils down to Nitrate and Phosphate control. In a high tech setup, protein skimmers are used to export dissolved organics before they can break down, and RO water is used to minimize nutrient input through water changes.

What I am proposing instead is to use a control method based on primary producers and bio-diversity:

1- Macroalgae such as chaeto filters the water column for nitrate and phosphate.

2- A deep sand bed with a rich microfauna for breaking down large organic matter and locking up organic compounds. The biggest limitation of this is that the sand bed will eventually become saturated. To prevent this from happening, we need:

3- True vascular plants such as seagrass whose roots can filter the sand bed and uptake the locked up nutrients, providing a means of actually exporting the nutrients.

I will certainly not be able to keep as many fish and corals in the tank as a high tech setup, but that's perfectly fine by me.

I would love to know if others have tried this approach, and how it turned out. Even if it didn't work out for you in the end, it would give me valuable insight on the kinds of problems that I will run into.


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## fesso clown (Nov 15, 2011)

Check out Cypher's (on this forum) build thread (on another forum) he has a dsb + seagrass and tons of macros. I believe he keeps mostly softies, zoos, mushrooms ect... don't recall any sps in there - Beautiful tank!

http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=245998&st=0

I have a modded ac110 that I will be selling soon as I am going with a sump on my new (bigger) tank. I have to trim my cheato every few weeks, it seems to work pretty good on my 20G.


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## msobon (Dec 7, 2011)

I've got an old needle wheel sedra with Venturi you could have for a DIY skimmer.


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## bioload (Oct 20, 2009)

solarz said:


> I would love to know if others have tried this approach, and how it turned out. Even if it didn't work out for you in the end, it would give me valuable insight on the kinds of problems that I will run into.












My tank lacked nutrient export and it took care of it by itself.....Nitrates and Phosphates read 0ppm. Since then I've removed the sand bed, increased the flow within the tank, and routed 100% of the tanks overflow through an SWC needlewheel driven skimmer, and started dosing carbon (vodka).....no more algae, but every tank is different.

Just what worked for me........got to find what works for you.


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## J_T (Mar 25, 2011)

Hmmm,

Sounds like you want to re-invent the wheel. And I don't know why. 

It took me some time to read all of this, and things you said that stand out are comments about lazy, and wanting cheap setup... This all doesn't lead to a good tank.

The DSB will never clog up, fill up, or blow up, if done right. The whole concept is to process the detrius. Amm -> Nitrite -> Nitrate -> Nitrogen. The nitrogen will escape as a gas.

The tank in front of a sunlit window will grow a ton of algae. No matter how you would like to export nutrients. It will just grow! Its sunlight, its what it does!

I hope that before you start to buy anything, you look at everything that been said here. Perhaps start with someone elses system that is in the classifides.


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

bioload said:


> My tank lacked nutrient export and it took care of it by itself.....Nitrates and Phosphates read 0ppm. Since then I've removed the sand bed, increased the flow within the tank, and routed 100% of the tanks overflow through an SWC needlewheel driven skimmer, and started dosing carbon (vodka).....no more algae, but every tank is different.
> 
> Just what worked for me........got to find what works for you.


That algae actually looks pretty nice, much better than cyano, that's for sure!



J_T said:


> Hmmm,
> 
> Sounds like you want to re-invent the wheel. And I don't know why.
> 
> ...


I don't think I'm reinventing any wheel. Almost everywhere I read about setting up a reef tank, people advocate using technology to solve problems. I can't help but ask myself, is that really the only way?

I've done a lot of reading on DSB, and while I think it's a great idea, I have come across a lot of sources that claim it is a ticking time bomb:

http://www.thereeftank.com/forums/f41/limitations-of-dsbs-16741.html

This is the source of my idea of using sea grass to prevent any accumulation of toxins.

As for sunlight, my current fowlr tank uses natural sunlight. It grows algae, but nothing unmanageable. I like using sunlight because it's a free source of light for growing my chaeto.

http://gtaaquaria.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29887


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## J_T (Mar 25, 2011)

That article is 9 years old! Think about how much has changed in that time!

DSB's are not time bombs. They need proper critters to move the top layer of sand. This lets Nitrogen out, and helps sink other nutrients. So long as you take care of it, and set it up correctly, they work just fine. I have been using one in all my tanks for over 10 years. Never had a problem.


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## cablemike (Jan 7, 2009)

All I can say regarding the high tech solution is, I think its a bunch of BS. I had one of the most healthy and heavily stocked tanks on here and by all of the standards set here I was low tech. I had a 90 gallon with 1.5 inch sandbed, a prizm skimmer, and a canister filter full of carbon and my tank was very healthy. I used tap water with a dechlorinator and had no algae issues after the initial algae bloom after cycle. I kept getting people saying my tank would be even better if I had a sump, added a refugium, a big skimmer, and an ro/di unit. I finally did all that and after a couple months things started going.g down hill. My alk and calcium were dropping too fast. The guys on reef central told me the tap water had been keeping my tank stable and the ro unit was stripping the water now and now I have to start dosing. So the ro unit made more work for me when I never had a problem to begin with. My current tank as I just got back after a break is a 20. It had a dual 65 watt PC unit, a aqua clear 30 for carbon, and a Bio cube internal skimmer and 3 small fountain pumps for flow. It does have a 2.5 inch sandbed. And I'm using tap water and in 6 months people will be shocked at how colourful my corals are and the growth from tap water. Sorry about the rant but tech don't mean squat. Its all about husbandry. Spend the time once a week and do a water change and all will be good. Don't over feed, have a decent clean up crew and you will have success.


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## macKRAZY (Feb 15, 2012)

becareful cable mike.. you might offend the pros lol


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## J_T (Mar 25, 2011)

cablemike said:


> All I can say regarding the high tech solution is, I think its a bunch of BS. I had one of the most healthy and heavily stocked tanks on here and by all of the standards set here I was low tech. I had a 90 gallon with 1.5 inch sandbed, a prizm skimmer, and a canister filter full of carbon and my tank was very healthy. I used tap water with a dechlorinator and had no algae issues after the initial algae bloom after cycle. I kept getting people saying my tank would be even better if I had a sump, added a refugium, a big skimmer, and an ro/di unit. I finally did all that and after a couple months things started going.g down hill. My alk and calcium were dropping too fast. The guys on reef central told me the tap water had been keeping my tank stable and the ro unit was stripping the water now and now I have to start dosing. So the ro unit made more work for me when I never had a problem to begin with. My current tank as I just got back after a break is a 20. It had a dual 65 watt PC unit, a aqua clear 30 for carbon, and a Bio cube internal skimmer and 3 small fountain pumps for flow. It does have a 2.5 inch sandbed. And I'm using tap water and in 6 months people will be shocked at how colourful my corals are and the growth from tap water. Sorry about the rant but tech don't mean squat. Its all about husbandry. Spend the time once a week and do a water change and all will be good. Don't over feed, have a decent clean up crew and you will have success.





> becareful cable mike.. you might offend the pros lol


You had a stable system, and changed too much, too fast. Same problems people run into when adding anything new, or taking away. GFO, GAC, RO, Sump, Skimmer, lights, Dosers, feeders, etc, etc, etc.

First thing we all read when we start looking into things. GO SLOW.

There is nothing wrong with a low tech tank. But it still needs to be setup right, and kept proper. More so, if you plan to run a DSB on this same tank.

I wish I could say this was the first time typing these comments, but its not! Your tank will not be the first I have seen converted back to a freshwater, or sold in the buy/sell forums due to failure.

I wish you well. Not just for your sake, but the LIVING animals that you are about to keep.


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## J_T (Mar 25, 2011)

> 3 small fountain pumps for flow


Careful, they were not designed for the harsh water conditions that our saltwater tanks have. Could cause you a nasty shock.


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

cablemike said:


> All I can say regarding the high tech solution is, I think its a bunch of BS. I had one of the most healthy and heavily stocked tanks on here and by all of the standards set here I was low tech. I had a 90 gallon with 1.5 inch sandbed, a prizm skimmer, and a canister filter full of carbon and my tank was very healthy. I used tap water with a dechlorinator and had no algae issues after the initial algae bloom after cycle. I kept getting people saying my tank would be even better if I had a sump, added a refugium, a big skimmer, and an ro/di unit. I finally did all that and after a couple months things started going.g down hill. My alk and calcium were dropping too fast. The guys on reef central told me the tap water had been keeping my tank stable and the ro unit was stripping the water now and now I have to start dosing. So the ro unit made more work for me when I never had a problem to begin with. My current tank as I just got back after a break is a 20. It had a dual 65 watt PC unit, a aqua clear 30 for carbon, and a Bio cube internal skimmer and 3 small fountain pumps for flow. It does have a 2.5 inch sandbed. And I'm using tap water and in 6 months people will be shocked at how colourful my corals are and the growth from tap water. Sorry about the rant but tech don't mean squat. Its all about husbandry. Spend the time once a week and do a water change and all will be good. Don't over feed, have a decent clean up crew and you will have success.


What kind of corals were you keeping in your old 90, and what kind are you keeping in your new 20?


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## cablemike (Jan 7, 2009)

solarz said:


> What kind of corals were you keeping in your old 90, and what kind are you keeping in your new 20?


Everything. Sps, Lps, leathers. I only do mixed tanks. Check my 20s thread it has pics of my old tanks.
http://gtaaquaria.com/forum/showthread.php?p=256140#post256140


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## cablemike (Jan 7, 2009)

J_T said:


> Careful, they were not designed for the harsh water conditions that our saltwater tanks have. Could cause you a nasty shock.


I'll take my chances, They were free.


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## cablemike (Jan 7, 2009)

J_T said:


> You had a stable system, and changed too much, too fast. Same problems people run into when adding anything new, or taking away. GFO, GAC, RO, Sump, Skimmer, lights, Dosers, feeders, etc, etc, etc.
> 
> First thing we all read when we start looking into things. GO SLOW.
> 
> ...


Go read the thread on my 90, I went slow as hell. You believe more stuff makes it better and I believe less is more. We each have a different attitude towards this but in the end if your tank is thriving then its working. Do things your way and I do them my way. Just don't shoot down my advice because you don't think it right. Be open minded and realize there is different ways of doing things and ending up with the same results. I'm big on proving you can get incredible results on a budget.

My 90s thread.

http://gtaaquaria.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7852


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