# 24 to 55g upgrade



## kolbaso (Mar 24, 2010)

I am upgrading from my 24g nanocube to an established 55g tank I am adopting. The tank has been up and running for over 2 years and has good growth but very little rock (about as much as I have in my 24g). Current livestock include 2 brittle stars, 2 tangs, 2 clowns, a royal dottyback and some leathers with a healthy cleanup crew. The new system will have 260W of PC lighting (12k and 50/50), and comes with an Emperor 400, Magnum HOT, and AquaC Remora skimmer. 
I am looking for advice on:
1 The move. Any precautions I should take? I am trying to take as much water as I can and keep everything separate and protected. When I moved my 24 it went perfectly and I had very little cycling after but this is larger.
2 Addition of more live rock. I am hoping to get some this week from an established tank and then add it to the new tank once it arrives. If I can’t find any this week can I add dry rock to the tank and let it grow? Will it cycle if it was never live rock just dry base rock, or just slowly grow life and not affect my water parameters?
3 The transfer of my coral and some livestock from my current tank before I sell it. I will wait until the new tank finishes a cycle if that happens after the move. I will also try and get the parameters as close as possible before I transfer my coral. 
4 Sump addition. This will come once everything is setup and my old tank is gone. I am hoping that I can use the protein skimmer and maybe the Magnum in a basic sump with a chamber for the skimmer then some live rock and a return pump. What size pump to match a 1” overflow, standard tank stand height for head?
I will add pictures once I figure it out to show progress.


----------



## kolbaso (Mar 24, 2010)

orry i didn’t want to get too deep into explanation in my initial post. 
The growth i am referring to is of the coralline algae, it covers everything, sides, back, filters, all exposed rock. As well the Anthelia and zoas he has cover most of the rock and even that has started up the back of the tank. The parameters are all steady now the mechanical filtration and livestock but i want more rock for natural filtration.
Little rock is probably around 30lbs, and i will add some of the rock from my existing tank but id like to sell most of it with the tank so the new owner has a stable setup to start with. I may move some over to help it cycle faster then move it back.
I only plan on soft corals for now so the lighting should be ok. the coral i have now is thriving with my 76w stock lighting in my nanocube. 
Why do you recommend a new sand bed? Will it die off too quickly during the move?
Can the cycling of the new sand bed be done with the existing livestock in the tank? I don’t think there is enough room in my 24g for 5 more fish. 
If i get cured rock then make sure its cycled in a bucket before i add it to the big tank would that work better?
I will have to look into putting in the sump before i set the tank in that is a good point
Thank you for the input and i encourage as much help as i can get.


----------



## kolbaso (Mar 24, 2010)

The seller has said that he will vacuum the sand bed all week then remove and rinse it very thoroughly before I pick up the tank Saturday. I will still put it into my 20g makup tank (soon to be sump) and check for nitrate levels after the move. I will start with a thin DSB then add the cycled old sand or new sand later. 
I have a picture of the new setup and will post once I figure out how to upload to the photo gallery properly.


----------



## kolbaso (Mar 24, 2010)

I agree with what you are saying and i think you are right. The only reason i am considering using some old sand is because the current owner thinks i can and wants to clean it. I will use new sand and probably pitch most of the old sand. 
Thank you for your help and i will keep you updated.


----------



## kolbaso (Mar 24, 2010)

I have successfully completed the move and had no problems or loss of life. I ended up using some of the old sand and about 20 lbs of new sand along with about 30lbs more rock. the previous owner made a few water changes before pickup and I added 10% new upon arrivals my water parameters were perfect within a day of setup. I have moved my old coral over and everything is doing great. i consider this very successful considering the tank was 4 hours away and it took all day to move. Here are some pictures of the tank before the move and my old 24g tank. New pics to come. Also my adopted tang is sick, looks like he is all scraped up. ill post pics, maybe somebody knows whats wrong with him.


----------



## kolbaso (Mar 24, 2010)

Big Ray said:


> I would get rid of the algae before it gets out of hand.


I will move the grape algae to my sump once its ready. For now its sitting in the big tank, the tangs are enjoying it. Ill give them a piece once a week or so. If your referring to the algae growth all over the sides and back of the 55g i have scraped as much as i can off for now and will work at it to get the glass pristine again.


----------



## conix67 (Jul 27, 2008)

No. Don't move them to sump. Get rid of it. I've done so.

"<excerpted from a recent reply, "The short story is that there are far more disadvantages than advantages. Yes it grows fast and yes it is a large nutrient exporter for it. However, for those same reasons is a very strong competitor with corals for the same nutrients. Furthermore, they exude noxious compounds that slow the potential growth of many corals (read: slows, not stops). They are tedious to maintain without breaching critical mass for fear of a vegetative event which is inevitable and potentially catastrophic in many systems. The list goes on. There are much better macros out there. Caulerpa is popular because it was commercially marketed, not because it is the best choice. See how many corals you can find in Caulerpa zones on wild shores (zero or nearly so... there must be a reason, In small quantities Caulerpa causes little harm... but doesn't help much either.">"


----------



## Kovac (May 3, 2010)

Big Ray said:


> +1 on this
> 
> so many times I looked at little algae and said I let it grow a bit then move it and before you know it, its all over the tank lol
> 
> DICTYOTA being the latest one


+1 as well. Once Caulerpa goes into heat (once a month i think) it sends it's spores down stream. It also clings to rocks and sneaks in all the small pours and is virtually impossible to get ride of completely.


----------



## kolbaso (Mar 24, 2010)

Kovac said:


> +1 as well. Once Caulerpa goes into heat (once a month i think) it sends it's spores down stream. It also clings to rocks and sneaks in all the small pours and is virtually impossible to get ride of completely.


Ok i will get rid of it. Where can i get good algae for my sump/refuge? Also is miracle mud available in the GTA?


----------



## Kovac (May 3, 2010)

kolbaso said:


> Ok i will get rid of it. Where can i get good algae for my sump/refuge? Also is miracle mud available in the GTA?


I picked up my chaetomorph from Reef Aquatica in Scarborough. Good guy. If you wait couple weeks i can get you some Red Gracilaria. I just trimmed it so i dont have enough to go around. Mind you, I like to keep the Gracilaria in my display tank cause its puurdy.

I think indoor jungle had some miracle mud but who knows if they are still open. Call around. Try Sea U Marine in Markham.


----------



## kolbaso (Mar 24, 2010)

Kovac said:


> I picked up my chaetomorph from Reef Aquatica in Scarborough. Good guy. If you wait couple weeks i can get you some Red Gracilaria. I just trimmed it so i dont have enough to go around. Mind you, I like to keep the Gracilaria in my display tank cause its puurdy.
> 
> i would love some actually, and i can wait because im just getting supplies right now for my sump/fuge. I could put a little in my display and a bunch in the sump.
> 
> Now my next problem. My adopted blue tang has some serious HLLE. Has anybody found a good cure?


----------



## Kovac (May 3, 2010)

kolbaso said:


> Kovac said:
> 
> 
> > I picked up my chaetomorph from Reef Aquatica in Scarborough. Good guy. If you wait couple weeks i can get you some Red Gracilaria. I just trimmed it so i dont have enough to go around. Mind you, I like to keep the Gracilaria in my display tank cause its puurdy.
> ...


----------



## Abner (Apr 7, 2009)

Big Ray said:


> ahh sorry to hear about the Blue tang.
> 
> are you keeping the blue tang and the yellow tang in a 24 G ?
> 
> ...


Just wanted to say that is excellent advice. i second that no medication motion. Ray buddy i have to commend you on the excellent job you are doing in the forum giving advice to people who need it. Keep up the good job.


----------



## Kovac (May 3, 2010)

Abner said:


> Just wanted to say that is excellent advice. i second that no medication motion. Ray buddy i have to commend you on the excellent job you are doing in the forum giving advice to people who need it. Keep up the good job.


+1

Big Ray seems to know what hes talking about.

Best of luck with the HLLE


----------



## kolbaso (Mar 24, 2010)

Big Ray said:


> ahh sorry to hear about the Blue tang.
> 
> are you keeping the blue tang and the yellow tang in a 24 G ?
> 
> ...


Thank you for such a detailed reply but i think we have some more work to do. Everything is over to the new 55g now as and the blue tang came with the tank. My yellow tang is showing minor fin rot and no body erosion so far. 
I already have a large selection of both flaked and pellet food. I have garlic multi flakes and plain multi flakes, green and red algae flakes, seaweed, garlic supplements, and vegetarian and mutli pellet food as well. This all came with the new tank and fish and are all high quality. 
The nitrates were at zero but I have been feeding 2-3 times a day so they are now up to about 5-10ppm and I have been doing weekly 5g water changes for the past 3 weeks. My clowns and royal dotty back are loving the extra food and getting a bit plump. 
The tangs don't seem to be getting any worse but I cant see any major improvements yet.
They have had a ground probe from the beginning as well. 
I don't want to try medication either but im running out of options. He seems healthy and happy and eats anything I put in the tank. Now im down to trying removing the carbon from my filters, maybe a nutrient rich sand bed in my sump. Im really not sure. 
My water has always been almost perfect, and it was before I adopted the tank as well. I bought more test kits and supplements and im going to try and get my phosphate, magnesium, calcium, iodine ect all perfect. I think they should be close though from the frequent water changes and testing. 
I am also considering changing the salt mix. The tank has been on instant ocean for about 3 years. I am thinking ill try a different salt mix as well.


----------



## kolbaso (Mar 24, 2010)

Big Ray said:


> *Now im down to trying removing the carbon from my filters, maybe a nutrient rich sand bed in my sump. Im really not sure.
> *
> 
> why do you want to remove the carbon ? carbon is removing organics and heavy metals from your tank, its a good thing, better than most ppl think. Important part of filteration.
> ...


I read someplace that carbon filters could cause hlle, and by nutrient rich sand i meant miracle mud not so much nutrients but minerals. I didn't think carbon was the issue.
I am going back to normal feedings twice a day and try not to over do it to control my nitrates. I have been skimming and running a canister filter off my sump to control it. I actually do have selcon and I soak a tablespoon of flakes with a few drops each day then dump it in. I will try soaking in tank water.
I was thinking of maybe getting a cleaner shrimp, maybe it could be a parasite?
The previous owner tried most things and said the fish has been sick for the last year or so.
On an unrelated note I have a chocolate chip starfish who hasn't eaten any of my leather corals or zoas yet but i was told that he may try or even eat a snail. I am thinking of getting a clam and supposedly they are fare game as well. Should I get rid of him or should I try it out and see? Any other inverts I should watch out for with a clam? I have 3 serpent stars, misc snails, a red legged and a few blue legged hermit crabs.


----------



## cablemike (Jan 7, 2009)

dont the scars of hlle stay forever anyways? from my understanding you can cure the fish but the scars will stay.. are you sure the fish is even sick? did it already have the scars when you got it or did this develop since you recieved the fish?


----------



## kolbaso (Mar 24, 2010)

cablemike said:


> dont the scars of hlle stay forever anyways? from my understanding you can cure the fish but the scars will stay.. are you sure the fish is even sick? did it already have the scars when you got it or did this develop since you recieved the fish?


He was already sick when i got him and he doesnt look like hes gotten any worse. I understand the scars will stay but will his fins/tail grow back or stay ragged forever. He seems happy and isnt getting worse so maybe he will just look rough forever.


----------



## cablemike (Jan 7, 2009)

its possible he will always look like a ex fighter.. are you sure the other fish isnt nipping his fins?


----------



## kolbaso (Mar 24, 2010)

His other tank mates are a yellow tang and a pair of clowns. They all seem to play nicely together. I dont think anybody nips at him. 

I am thinking of adding another fish or two. Does anybody have any suggestions? I would trade my chocolate chip starfish for a fish if anybody is interested. I'd like to get a clam in the future and i heard that the star could damage one.


----------



## teemee (Aug 29, 2009)

*tang*

You could try melafix...
My tang was a little worse for wear when I got it, and my tank off someone else...
I'm pretty sure he got nailed by the piece of live rock that was in the bucket with him... slow going but his wounds have started to heal up.
good luck!


----------



## kolbaso (Mar 24, 2010)

teemee said:


> You could try melafix...
> My tang was a little worse for wear when I got it, and my tank off someone else...
> I'm pretty sure he got nailed by the piece of live rock that was in the bucket with him... slow going but his wounds have started to heal up.
> good luck!


I will look into that. He is healing slowly and spending a lot f time with my coral banded shrimp so maybe hes getting better.

Here are some pics of the tank. You can see my new tang that is now gone. It did great for about a week then got a massive case of what i thought was ich. Covered in small white spots like grains of salt. I gave it a quick freshwater dip with correct pH and temp and it seemed to be doing ok. Then it died the next day.

Also in the pics you can see a snail i got from a friend with a pair of clowns. I think it may be a cone snail. They are supposed ot be dangerous if they sting you. I havent noticed it bothering any tank mates yet, and it seems to do a good job cleaning my sand bed. It anybody has any suggestions or warnings i woudl like to hear them.


----------

