# Need help sourcing/pricing co2 setup



## DaFishMan

Hey 

Need your collective expertise. I'm probably getting co2 soon. If I could get some advice on what I need and if good prices/sites out there to piece it together, it would be very appreciated.

I think this is what I need, anything I don't or forget anything ?

Tank: $86. for a 10pnd at Norwood, filled, certified.
Ph regulator: Is this part really necessary ?
Needle Valve
Bubble Counter
Tubing 
Check Valve ?
Diffuser: (I may make a powerhead one or other diy, but would like to see what's out there)

Do regulators cost around $150. if so would buying Troung's 5pnd setup be a good idea at least to save on the regulator ? That 5pnd tank may be useful in the future, if it can be certified.

What about the drop checker fluid Darkblade sells ?

I don't really need to control the ph at a certain level.

Thanks in advance for any help. I've only done small diy co2.


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## Darkblade48

Pressurized CO2 is a great investment  Glad that you are getting into it! You definitely will not look back once you start using it, and will wonder how you ever managed to live without it.



DaFishMan said:


> I think this is what I need, anything I don't or forget anything ?
> 
> Tank: $86. for a 10pnd at Norwood, filled, certified.


You sure it wasn't $85? I got it for that price 



DaFishMan said:


> Ph regulator: Is this part really necessary ?


No, an electronic pH controller is not necessary. But if you have the money to spend, then feel free to buy this luxury item.



DaFishMan said:


> Needle Valve


Look to spend anywhere from $20-30 on this. Don't get the Clippard. Try to get at least a Fabco NV55 needle valve. This one has to be run in line. If you can get Swagelok metering valves and/or the Ideal, those are even better.



DaFishMan said:


> Bubble Counter


You can DIY one yourself on the cheap or buy the JBJ bubble counter that everyone seems to have.



DaFishMan said:


> Tubing


No special tubing is required. I use either the clear vinyl (though this gets hard with time), or silicone tubing. Some people will claim that silicone tubing is more permeable to CO2 (which is true), but at the low pressures and short distances we are using it at, gas loss is negligible. CO2 proof tubing is nice, but not required.



DaFishMan said:


> Check Valve ?


You definitely need one of these. You don't want water to back siphon and destroy your regulator. Using the plastic ones is OK, but as mentioned, CO2 will harden plastics with time, so a brass one is recommended.



DaFishMan said:


> Diffuser: (I may make a powerhead one or other diy, but would like to see what's out there)


It depends on your setup. Some people like to use a glass diffuser with ceramic disc, while people with larger tanks will likely need more efficient methods of diffusion (i.e. inline reactor).



DaFishMan said:


> Do regulators cost around $150. if so would buying Troung's 5pnd setup be a good idea at least to save on the regulator ? That 5pnd tank may be useful in the future, if it can be certified.


It depends on the type of regulator. Single stage regulators can be had for as little as 40 USD. Dual stage regulators (brand new) can be upwards of 300 USD.

Note that dual *stage *and dual *gauge *are different terms.

You should take a look at the various types of regulators out there. Personally, I would not recommend Milwuakee, Azoo and the Aquamedic regulator setups, as some of their parts are deficient. There are excellent deals on eBay for dual stage regulators for as little as 30 USD (these are rare though). I usually see dual stage regulators go in the price range of 50-80 USD. You can get a regulator that was originally intended for CO2 usage, or (as is the case, usually), you can buy a regulator that was originally meant for inert gasses (usually with a CGA580 fitting). You need to swap out the CGA580 fitting for a CO2 fitting (CGA320), and you will be set.

Ideally, the high pressure gauge should not be a problem (as long as it reads > 1000 PSI; most read ~3000-4000 PSI as a maximum). The low pressure gauge should be able to read from 0-50 PSI (ideally), so that you can fine tune your CO2 delivery pressure. However, this isn't completely necessary, as my low pressure gauge reads from 0 - 200 PSI, and I still have no problem dialing my delivery pressure down to 5 or 10 PSI (and with a dual stage regulator, it holds the pressure there; with a single stage regulator, you may have trouble keeping a delivery pressure that low without a fluctuating bubble rate.)



DaFishMan said:


> What about the drop checker fluid Darkblade sells ?


A drop checker is a good (cheap) piece of equipment to monitor your CO2 levels. You will need a 4 dkH reference fluid as well as bromothymol blue in order to use a drop checker properly.

Drop checkers can be either DIY'ed on the cheap, bought on eBay, or bought from me 

One last item that you forgot is a solenoid. This is an optional part, but will allow you to put your CO2 onto a timer so that you can have your CO2 turn on/off automatically. This is about 17.50 USD shipped.


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## Mr Fishies

I think most of your questions are covered...but everyone has an opinion...I'm no different, so I'll add my 2 cents. 

The little JBJ bubble counters will make it difficult to count bubbles for a tank as big as a 75. You may have better luck with a bigger vessel and DIY something. Counting 3-4 bubbles per second in a 2 inch space is difficult.

You can DIY a reactor from PVC, not hard not too expensive, but long term I recommend a separate pump to run it with. If you inline it with your filter, as your filter clogs up, flow will decrease so CO2 will not dissolve as well. If you want to shut the pump off at night when your CO2 goes off you can save a bit of electricity that way too. I've seen a few people on forums that just bubble the CO2 into a small internal filter or needle wheel pump so CO2 is a mist of bubbles floating about the tank dissolving that way. It's suggested this is a good thing because CO2 can actually come into direct contact with leaves bypassing the boundary layer.

I'd skip the PH controller and use a timer. It's much simpler, doesn't need calibration and cheaper. Run your CO2 when your lights are on, shut it off when they do, use the solenoid for this. (Maybe a 2nd timer to turn the gas on 20-30 mins before your lights, but that's getting pretty finicky IMO). I have my solenoid, light and pump running on the same powerbar plugged into a timer.

Swagelok and Ideal are the Merc and Caddy of needle valves without a doubt, this is supported by the price.  Unless you find a deal as suggested. I have a Fabco NV55 and solenoid, both work well and are not too pricey. If you go this route, send me a PM, the NV55 comes with empty threaded ports and I have a few of the correct barbs for our use - had to buy a bag of 10.


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## Darkblade48

Mr Fishies said:


> Swagelok and Ideal are the Merc and Caddy of needle valves without a doubt, this is supported by the price.  Unless you find a deal as suggested.


If you need help with this, I do have a few sources


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## DaFishMan

Thanks for the detailed helpful info. I'm sure others here will get helped by this when they want to go pressurized as well 

K I've pm'd Mr Fishies re the Fabco solenoid and needle valve to get an idea on price. Darkblade, if you have sources for the ones you suggested that would be great. Everything helps at this point. I will pm you on the 4 dkH reference fluid & bromothymol blue as well.

My tools etc are limited, would anyone be able to make me a DIY bubble counter better suited then the JBJ ? I'd be happy to cover materials and time. 

Definately would use a timer, I have a small extension coming from my light timer so more things can be added.

Once i have all the components decided, sourced and priced I will finalize my decision and figure out when I can begin to buy them. I will get the stuff from you guys first.

For my record.

Tank: $85. at Norwood (not 86 lol)
Solenoid: to be sourced
Needle Valve: to be sourced
Drop checker stuff: 4 dkH reference fluid & bromothymol blue. (Darkblade).
Dual Stage Regulator: $50-$80. USD approx - to be sourced. 
(avoid Milwuakee, Azoo, Aquamedic) 
Brass Check Valve: to be sourced
Bubble Counter: to be sourced 
Tubing: silicone, check lfs.


Questions: brass check valve and tubing, is this for regular size airhose ?

"You definitely will not look back once you start using it, and will wonder how you ever managed to live without it."
Will that be due to lack of algae or overall improvement in plant health ?

I remember using a hagen co2 setup in a 29g for the first time, it was even low light (1wpg which pple said co2 would have no effect). The difference and results in plant health and growth blew me away and at the time it also helped me keep plants that should not have been successful in my tank. That was my first jungle


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## Darkblade48

DaFishMan said:


> K I've pm'd Mr Fishies re the Fabco solenoid and needle valve to get an idea on price.


Fabco doesn't make a solenoid, as far as I know. You may want to take a look at this solenoid on eBay (Parker):

http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Parker-120V...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item439ca56a21

It does not come with a power cord, but this can be easily acquired from an old piece of equipment. The best way I have found to connect the power cord to the solenoid is with spade connectors.

The Fabco NV55 needle valve is approximately 22 USD (at the cheapest that I have found).



DaFishMan said:


> Darkblade, if you have sources for the ones you suggested that would be great. Everything helps at this point. I will pm you on the 4 dkH reference fluid & bromothymol blue as well.


Regarding Swagelok, Parker and/or Ideal metering valves. I don't usually see Ideal valves for the cheap, so you may be better off looking for Swagelok and/or Parker metering valves.

Any of the low flow metering valves that Swagelok makes will be fine for our purposes; some of the medium flow metering valves will also work. I did not seem to find any good deals on eBay after a quick search, but I am sure they will pop up sooner or later.



DaFishMan said:


> My tools etc are limited, would anyone be able to make me a DIY bubble counter better suited then the JBJ ? I'd be happy to cover materials and time.


For a DIY bubble counter, all you really need is an airtight jar, and the ability to drill a few holes (a power drill helps, but a nail and a hammer will do in a pinch). For example, if you take a 500 mL water bottle, you can punch two holes in the cap, and pull some airline tubing through the holes. One tube will go towards the tank/diffuser, and the other will be connected to the CO2 source.

For the tube that is connected to the CO2 source, it goes to the bottom of the bottle, and after it is filled with water (or glycerin, or mineral oil, etc), it will serve as a longer column so that you can count your bubbles more easily.



DaFishMan said:


> Questions: brass check valve and tubing, is this for regular size airhose ?


Yes, this is normal sized airline tubing and check valves (at least all the ones I have seen)



DaFishMan said:


> "You definitely will not look back once you start using it, and will wonder how you ever managed to live without it."
> Will that be due to lack of algae or overall improvement in plant health ?


If you have been using DIY CO2 for awhile, you will realize how much of a hassle it is to continuously monitor the production rate, etc. Changing the mixtures on a weekly/biweekly basis is also a hassle; with pressurized CO2, you will not need to ever do this.

In addition, with a solid regulator and a solid needle/metering valve, you can set the bubble rate, and it will take care of the rest (so called 'set it and forget it')


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## DaFishMan

Thanks 

Fabco was the needle valve Mr Fishies has. I assumed that was the solenoid make too but as you called it, I'm incorrect lol. Will await to see what he says & hopefully it has a power cord. If not I've done the basic 'strip, twist, tape, add connector' type of wiring & will persue the e-bay one you linked.

I can borrow a drill for the bubble counter but will still check to see what's out there.

The brass check valve can get any fishstore inexpensively (if that quality will do ?). I have regular airline already but thinking the co2 type airline won't cost alot & if that line doesn't go brittle may as well go that route.

True - diy can be a hassle, not much for small tanks (I just refreshed every 3-4 weeks not worrying about max production, just to give the plants a boost & the results were good enough) but def for larger tanks. (I may do a temp diy for the 40g until things are set for the 75g, with a couple 2L bottles) Also going to get the hagen unit going in the 25g.


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## DaFishMan

I definately am coming to appreciate 'set and forget'. Reducing regular tasks is always good if possible. Loving the recently bought auto-feeder. Timers are great for unplanted tanks even, so fish can get a regular day/night cycle. 

I may want to do an auto-top off in the future. Even a barrel with a water pump I can switch would be helpful


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## Darkblade48

DaFishMan said:


> Fabco was the needle valve Mr Fishies has. I assumed that was the solenoid make too but as you called it, I'm incorrect lol. Will await to see what he says & hopefully it has a power cord. If not I've done the basic 'strip, twist, tape, add connector' type of wiring & will persue the e-bay one you linked.


As far as I know, most people will use solenoids made by Clippard, Burkert or Parker. The Clippard seems to run a little hot (sometimes hot enough that you cannot place your hand on it for more than a few seconds), but it does have the advantage of having an LED to indicate when the plunger is open (and letting gas through).

The Burkert and Parker seem to run cooler, but do not have the same LED functionality.



DaFishMan said:


> The brass check valve can get any fishstore inexpensively (if that quality will do ?).


You may or may not be able to get brass check valves at the LFS. They are pricier than your standard plastic check valve, but they will last a lifetime.



DaFishMan said:


> I have regular airline already but thinking the co2 type airline won't cost alot & if that line doesn't go brittle may as well go that route.


Only the clear, vinyl airline tubing will go brittle. The silicone tubing does not seem to go brittle, so you can use that instead of the (much more expensive) CO2 airline.


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## KhuliLoachFan

I've read that the trouble with the automatic solenoids to turn off CO2 at night is that when CO2 levels drop, the pH shifts wildly, stressing or killing fish.

What do people think?

W


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## Darkblade48

Fish are hardier than most people think.

The pH swing that is a result of injecting CO2 is quite slow, but can be quite dramatic (sometimes varying to a full point (10 times)). 

However, fish and invertebrates can tolerate this change, as long as it is slow and gradual.


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## Mr Fishies

@DFM: PM replied.

@DB48: Yes, Fabco do make Solenoids too. I've got both a Solenoid and needle valve from them since I was able to source locally for about $25 each.

@KLF: In terms of PH swings affecting the fish...after months of this, I've had no issues doing it this way. Lots of people are using this method, I've read the posts on other forums...it wasn't my idea. 

Based on my limited chemistry "knowledge" and Wikipedia, I *think* that the PH swings are regulated somewhat by 1) the fact that the plants have stopped consuming CO2 and 2) the dissolved CO2, as carbonic acid, that lowers the PH in the first place is left in the water. In that state, it takes a long time to dissipate, like the CO2 in a glass of pop in the fridge does. (I could be wrong so don't cite me!) Or as DB48 suggested, the fish are just a lot more robust than we give them credit for.


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## Darkblade48

Mr Fishies said:


> @DB48: Yes, Fabco do make Solenoids too. I've got both a Solenoid and needle valve from them since I was able to source locally for about $25 each.


Hm, what do you know; learn something new everyday 

Can you make any comparisons between the Fabco and other solenoid brands?


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## Mr Fishies

Darkblade48 said:


> Can you make any comparisons between the Fabco and other solenoid brands?


Not really. I only have the one CO2 rig at home, but my retired father's old workplace used Fabco stuff, solenoids etc (not needle valves though) for the pneumatics in machines they manufactured and shipped all over, so they felt the brand reliability was there.

It get's pretty hot from the current when it's on (I guess they all do to an extent) but I can hold onto it while it's running. For me, it turns off and on every day for several months so far...no complaints.

Since the NV-55 is well documented on various forums and websites as far as I can tell as the "best cheap needle valve" so they were a natural fit.


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## DaFishMan

Learning lots myself, thanks 

What about this brand ?
http://cgi.ebay.ca/FISHERBRAND-10-5...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item518fd1c0f0

My search yesterday sucked, today I just searched on 'regulator' then clicked 'Healthcare, Lab'
Lots there, mostly intended for oxygen gas, but hey if it works. Also thinking if designed for medical purpose
it's reliable. Still looking.


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## Darkblade48

Fisher is a scientific company, so they probably took some other company's regulator and just rebranded it.

It looks like the regulator was originally intended for nitrogen, but it can be adapted for our use. You will need to take off the CGA580 stem (the rightmost stem) and replace it with a CGA320 stem (~$10).

You will need to take off the valve at the bottom (6 o'clock position) and replace with the necessary parts to connect to a solenoid/needle valve.

Finally, the delivery pressure may be a bit hard to dial (the lowest delivery pressure seems to be ~20 PSI, you may have trouble dialing it below this pressure). With a dual stage regulator, dialing it down to 5 PSI and keeping it there is not a problem (as my Victor does this just fine). However, I am not sure whether this Fisher regulator is dual stage or not (it is hard to tell without additional pictures). If it is a single stage regulator, I would not try to dial it down to less than 15 PSI (meaning you won't be able to get an extremely low bubble rate).

For reference, I have a 10 lb tank with a Victor dual stage regulator set at a delivery pressure of 5 PSI, and a Swagelok low flow metering valve so that I can achieve a 1 bubble per 2 seconds (which keeps the drop checker green in my 2.5g nano). However, I know it can go lower than this


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## DaFishMan

How can you tell visually between the cga320 and 580 stems ? 

I'm looking at a very used Victor reg (but supposedly good operating condition) approx $40. shipped.


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## Darkblade48

DaFishMan said:


> How can you tell visually between the cga320 and 580 stems ?


http://www.techniweld.com/Catalogue/Gentec Check Valves.pdf
That should help.

The CGA320 and CGA580 stems look very different from one another, so they can be quickly differentiated.



DaFishMan said:


> I'm looking at a very used Victor reg (but supposedly good operating condition) approx $40. shipped.


Is this Victor single or dual stage? If it is a dual stage, it may be worth it; but if it is single stage it is probably better off passing on it (depending on how much "very used" really is).


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## DaFishMan

I think it's a dual if dual means 2 guages on it ?. There's a bit of oxidization but appears solid. You will know best. I've sent you a link for inspect if that's ok. Will check back shortly !


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## Mr Fishies

DaFishMan said:


> I think it's a dual if dual means 2 guages on it ?. There's a bit of oxidization but appears solid. You will know best. I've sent you a link for inspect if that's ok. Will check back shortly !


There are Dual gauges...two dials to look at.

Dual stages...two diaphragms in the regulator. Makes for a much bigger, heavier regulator body.

http://www.mathesontrigas.com/pdfs/products/Regulators-Product-Line-Overview.pdf

See the section "The advantage of a dual stage regulator is its ability to deliver a constant pressure..."

If you can get your hands on one for a good price, it's the best way to go since you don't have to worry about gassing your fish when the CO2 in your tank runs out, the pressure fluctuates and you can get End Of Tank Dump. You could run a dual stage connected tank "dry" without worry.

That said, if you make checking your gauges every day a part of your routine, it takes a day or two (+? depending on your bubble rate) when liquid CO2 is gone to drop from normal pressure into a problem zone so EOTD has a visual margin of safety. Basically, never wait until it hits the "Buy more gas" zone with a single stage.


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## DaFishMan

Definately I'd like a dual stage regulator, and the extra control for 'dialing down' the bubbles per second. Will the fabco valve allow for that or do I definately need a metering valve ? I'd be aiming for approx 15-20ppm co2.

I sent you the link as well Mr Fishies.

Hoping I can get the reg and needle valve for under $90. Spent an insane amount on the tank so far. My downoi better EXPLODE


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## Darkblade48

DaFishMan said:


> I think it's a dual if dual means 2 guages on it ?.


As mentioned, dual gauge and dual stage are two different concepts. Having two gauges (two meters) just means you can look at the pressure remaining in the CO2 tank, and the delivery pressure.

Having two stages means there are two levels of CO2 pressure control; as a result, you can run your tank completely to emptiness and not have to worry about "end of tank dump", where the pressure can change, and cause variations in your bubble rate.



DaFishMan said:


> There's a bit of oxidization but appears solid. You will know best. I've sent you a link for inspect if that's ok. Will check back shortly !


I took a look, it is an oxygen regulator. Most people (over on PlantedTank) do not recommend an oxygen regulator, as they are built differently from a CO2 and/or an inert gas regulator (apparently).

I would pass on this regulator (also, it looks a little crusty in my opinion, and it is hard to tell whether it will affect performance (it should not, but you never know...)).



DaFishMan said:


> Definately I'd like a dual stage regulator, and the extra control for 'dialing down' the bubbles per second. Will the fabco valve allow for that or do I definately need a metering valve ? I'd be aiming for approx 15-20ppm co2.


The Fabco should allow bubbles per second. With metering valves, it just means you can go down even lower. For example, with a solid dual stage regulator and an excellent low flow metering valve (i.e. high number of turns vs. how far the orifice opens), you could likely get down to the point where you are counting bubbles *per minute*.

I think the Fabco NV55 will be fine for most purposes. I managed to pick up a Swagelok for less than the price of a Fabco, so that's why I went with it.


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## DaFishMan

I will hold out to try and get a deal on good quality parts. If you by chance happen to see anything worth a look pls lemme know. Thanks guys you're such a great help, didn't expect such depth of knowledge about the various pieces of equip that form the co2 setup. I'll try and keep up if I can lol.


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## Darkblade48

There are some excellent information over at the Barr Report.

See in particular, this thread:

http://www.barrreport.com/showthread.php/6470-Dual-Stage-Regulators

Cecil (Left C) and I have been posting quite a bit in that thread lately.

Here is a sample of some of the dual stage regulators that I have seen lately on eBay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/2-stage-Linde-R...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item5634b566ae

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330395459048&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT

All of these are suitable for our use. Not only that, they already have the CGA320 stem that is required for CO2 use.

The regulators that I have linked to are rebranded Victor regulators.


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## DaFishMan

Just won the auction for AGA Regulator 

Awaiting shipping quote and confirmation that shipping here won't be a problem. Crossing my fingers.

Tap....Tap.....Tap.....


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## Darkblade48

DaFishMan said:


> Just won the auction for AGA Regulator
> 
> Awaiting shipping quote and confirmation that shipping here won't be a problem. Crossing my fingers.
> 
> Tap....Tap.....Tap.....


How did the seller ship?


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## DaFishMan

Purch price 39.99
Shipping 25.37 UPS Standard

With conversion to CDN it's $69.55 total.
Does that seem reasonable to you ?

Here's the pic for those that don't like clicking links.


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## Darkblade48

DaFishMan said:


> Purch price 39.99
> Shipping 25.37 UPS Standard
> 
> With conversion to CDN it's $69.55 total.
> Does that seem reasonable to you ?


For a Victor dual stage, it is a good deal. Consider that you would be paying ~50 USD for a brand new single stage regulator anyway.

However, what worries me is this:


> Shipping 25.37 *UPS *Standard


If the seller shipped via UPS, won't there be a UPS customs fee when it crosses the border? And we all know how much UPS charges


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## DaFishMan

I figured was a good deal as you did say around the $40. mark so didn't hesitate just snagged quickly as possible. Both the units you linked looked solid. The 'AGA' reminded me of 'Aquatic Gardeners Association', ROFL.

"won't there be a UPS customs fee when it crosses the border"
No idea I hope not. I've ordered stuff from the US before from private sellers and commercial outlets, never been dinged by customs. (knock on wood)

Well, that's one item off the list ! The solenoid and needle valve (or metering valve) are next to get I guess


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## Darkblade48

DaFishMan said:


> I figured was a good deal as you did say around the $40. mark so didn't hesitate just snagged quickly as possible. Both the units you linked looked solid. The 'AGA' reminded me of 'Aquatic Gardeners Association', ROFL.


$40 would have been for a single stage regulator 

Dual stage regulators usually run about that much (~70 CAD total).

Do note that Victor dual stage regulators normally run in the hundreds of USD, so this is still an excellent deal.



DaFishMan said:


> "won't there be a UPS customs fee when it crosses the border"
> No idea I hope not. I've ordered stuff from the US before from private sellers and commercial outlets, never been dinged by customs. (knock on wood)


I suppose you'll just have to wait and see. If there is a customs fee, it'll hurt 



DaFishMan said:


> Well, that's one item off the list ! The solenoid and needle valve (or metering valve) are next to get I guess


I would recommend the Parker solenoid from eBay. All you really have to do is get a power cord (from anything) and wire it up to the solenoid yourself (is not really that hard).

The needle/metering valve will be the hardest part. If you just want one immediately, you could look for a local supplier of the Fabco NV55.


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## Mr Fishies

Darkblade48 said:


> I suppose you'll just have to wait and see. If there is a customs fee, it'll hurt


The key word there is "fee". The last time I had stuff shipped though them, the customs was $2-3, and something stupid like $23 for brokerage and processing fee. I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.


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## DaFishMan

Thanks to you guys pointing me to quality products and price values I'm feeling positive about the purchase/cost, and not stressing at all.
I'll find a way to say thanks in the future, even if it means bumping up growth of my 'secret' moss samples 

I've searched the solenoid & swagelok in ebay. There are diff shapes and thread sizes for both. Which do I need ? Sorry for the brain drain. This is alien territory to me. I have a source for needle valve but curious on the swage. Haven't decided which yet. 

Usually I get time to check in from work, but it's been excruciatingly busy this week. It's almost Friday..... 

If I wanted to add a couple more outputs in the future, what would I need to do up a splitter ?


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## Darkblade48

DaFishMan said:


> I've searched the solenoid & swagelok in ebay. There are diff shapes and thread sizes for both. Which do I need ? Sorry for the brain drain. This is alien territory to me. I have a source for needle valve but curious on the swage. Haven't decided which yet.


For the solenoid, most people use a normally closed (i.e. only open when there is electricity), 1/8" solenoid.

Here is the one that I use.

http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Parker-120V...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item45f09e49a4

Note that it does not come with a cord, so you will have to attach it yourself.

As for the Swagelok, you want to use a low or medium flow metering valve. There are many out there, so it is hard to say what is "best". Ideally, you want one that is in the same diameter as your solenoid; that way you can avoid having to use multiple adapters.

However, sometimes, the Swagelok valves come with a proprietary Swagelok tube fitting, which will require their adapters (a couple dollars, usually). As is the case, it is thus obviously easier to just get a valve that does not require multiple adapters.



DaFishMan said:


> If I wanted to add a couple more outputs in the future, what would I need to do up a splitter ?


You would need a manifold of some kind, and a needle valve on each output.


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## DaFishMan

"For the solenoid, most people use a normally closed (i.e. only open when there is electricity), 1/8" solenoid. Here is the one that I use."

It looks like the one I just bought !  

Back to sleep I go


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## Darkblade48

DaFishMan said:


> Back to sleep I go


You woke up just to comment on that?


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## DaFishMan

Nope 

I woke up, went outside for a smoke, came inside, sniped the solenoid on ebay, then of course had to tell yas lol.


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## DaFishMan

Sorry for late update been pretty busy of late, fixing computers again part-time to generate extra cash towards this stuff.

Yes, that means co2 and light coming soon 

I received the regulator last week, got nailed with a $36. duty fee.
After what DB advise on price, brand and such, I won't cry about it, and bite the bullet, had no other choice if I wanted a regulator lol.

The solenoid received today, that and the regulator look absolutely MINT condition so I can be grateful for that. Next item to shop is the needle valve, prob not till next week.


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## Darkblade48

DaFishMan said:


> I received the regulator last week, got nailed with a $36. duty fee.
> After what DB advise on price, brand and such, I won't cry about it, and bite the bullet, had no other choice if I wanted a regulator lol.


Ouch  That's a hefty fee. Still, I suppose it's not too bad, given that new dual stage regulators go for a couple hundred at the very least.



DaFishMan said:


> The solenoid received today, that and the regulator look absolutely MINT condition so I can be grateful for that. Next item to shop is the needle valve, prob not till next week.


Yeah, those Parker solenoids are nice  Hope you can wire it up safely, don't make it an electrocution hazard 

Also, didn't know you were still looking for needle valves, but there was a user over on PlantedTank that was selling some nice Swageloks recently, though I'm not sure if he still has any left.


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## PPulcher

DaFishMan said:


> I received the regulator last week, got nailed with a $36. duty fee.
> After what DB advise on price, brand and such, I won't cry about it, and bite the bullet, had no other choice if I wanted a regulator lol.


Bummer. If you can manage it for future south of the border orders, insist in USPS shipping and not UPS or FedEx etc.

Brokerage charges are usually much less with the postal system. IIRC it was a $5 assessment fee plus taxes the last time I got something from the US.


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## DaFishMan

"Yeah, those Parker solenoids are nice Hope you can wire it up safely, don't make it an electrocution hazard"

So true, don't need any shocking experiences  

"Also, didn't know you were still looking for needle valves, but there was a user over on PlantedTank that was selling some nice Swageloks recently, though I'm not sure if he still has any left." 

Thx I will see if any left. I have a source for the Fabco needle valve as well.
I will see what I can look up this week. 

If I was going to do up a splitter, (JimmyJam's was spoken for unfortunately) each line split would need it's own valve ?


"If you can manage it for future south of the border orders, insist in USPS shipping and not UPS or FedEx etc. Brokerage charges are usually much less with the postal system."

Excellent tip ! I hate fees and that duty charge being as much as the item definately wasn't fair. Still quite happy with the equip located so far, solid


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## DaFishMan

DB, is this the one I need ?

http://www.swagelok.com/search/product_detail.aspx?part=SS-4MG

He didn't say they were sold out in the thread so may be hope. $30. US shipped within US, a bit more for if sending here probably, and USPS.


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## Darkblade48

DaFishMan said:


> If I was going to do up a splitter, (JimmyJam's was spoken for unfortunately) each line split would need it's own valve ?


Yes, if you want to split your CO2, you will need to have a needle valve on each split.



DaFishMan said:


> DB, is this the one I need ?
> 
> http://www.swagelok.com/search/product_detail.aspx?part=SS-4MG
> 
> He didn't say they were sold out in the thread so may be hope. $30. US shipped within US, a bit more for if sending here probably, and USPS.


I think that one should work; I'm at work so I don't really have time to check out the technical specifications yet, but I can take another look later.

However, do note that this particular metering valve does not have NPT fittings and has Swagelok's proprietary Swagelok tube fittings. This means you will need to find a source for the fittings (may be a pain).

There is a Swagelok dealer near Scarborough Town Centre, however. Their prices are a bit high, but that is only place I have been able to find them (unless this particular user also has the necessary fittings).


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## DaFishMan

For my own reference or those who may be assisting with advise.

Update - couple co2 components obtained since last posts.

Swagelok metering Valve from Darkblade48










GE dual-outlet grounded digital timer from Greg_o










Now need tank from norwood or camcarb, brass air valve, hose, and power cord for the solenoid (with a pilot light). Maybe barb adapters.


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## Darkblade48

DaFishMan said:


> Now need tank from norwood or camcarb, brass air valve, hose, and power cord for the solenoid (with a pilot light). Maybe barb adapters.


Get your CO2 cylinder from Norwood, it is cheaper.

If you are looking for a brass air valve, online is probably your best bet. If you are going to be ordering a few, let me know, as I need some as well, and want to save on shipping 

For the hose, regular silicone airline tubing works well.

Finally, for the solenoid (I assume the one with the pilot light is likely a Clippard), you can use any old electrical cord (I used one from an old computer).

For barb adapters, there are some that go from 1/8" female NPT to the correct sized barb for airline tubing at Home Depot (it is what I used before I got my bubble counter). This is why I sell my metering valves with a male 1/8" NPT end (it can go to the female NPT to hose barb adapter or a female JBJ bubble counter )


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## NaturalCommunity88

DaFishMan said:


> Hey
> 
> Need your collective expertise. I'm probably getting co2 soon. If I could get some advice on what I need and if good prices/sites out there to piece it together, it would be very appreciated.
> 
> I think this is what I need, anything I don't or forget anything ?
> 
> Tank: $86. for a 10pnd at Norwood, filled, certified.
> Ph regulator: Is this part really necessary ?
> Needle Valve
> Bubble Counter
> Tubing
> Check Valve ?
> Diffuser: (I may make a powerhead one or other diy, but would like to see what's out there)
> 
> Do regulators cost around $150. if so would buying Troung's 5pnd setup be a good idea at least to save on the regulator ? That 5pnd tank may be useful in the future, if it can be certified.
> 
> What about the drop checker fluid Darkblade sells ?
> 
> I don't really need to control the ph at a certain level.
> 
> Thanks in advance for any help. I've only done small diy co2.


I'd recommend getting a complete set from co2art.us 
their regulator has all other parts incorporated so it makes it much less complicated to know what you need and to know how to set it up.


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