# Help Jen find the perfect pen



## jen_jen_ng (Apr 20, 2010)

Hi everyone,

I am in need of a very fine (small tip) pen. For certain purposes, I would sometimes write quite small. And I don't like writing with pencil. Unfortunately, I haven't found ones that are better than led pencils - they either smudge or the ink doesn't flow really well.

Hope you can help me. If you have a pen to suggest and really want to help me out, please provide as much info as possible to help me to find it (brand/name/type of pen, where to get it, provide an image if possible, etc.)

Thanks a lot, your suggestions are greatly appreciated!
Jennifer 

Below is the same message but in writing just to show you all the size of my writing and give you an idea of how fine the pen has to be. I will probably need to write bigger... My objective is to find a pen that can allow me to write this size - or closest possible~


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## gucci17 (Oct 11, 2007)

I have my glasses on and I still can't read it...lol


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## jen_jen_ng (Apr 20, 2010)

gucci17 said:


> I have my glasses on and I still can't read it...lol


lol, it's just the quality and lighting of my image, it's really not that bad. Excuse my sloppy writing, I wrote this msg really fast.










and I DON'T write that small often. Really. Just sometimes. I often write bigger in capital letters or cursive.

Jennifer


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

I love these pens as they're really fine, and the ink doesn't really smudge or bleed (as it's a ball point, not roller ball):
http://www.pentel.com/catalog_product.php?id=83


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## jen_jen_ng (Apr 20, 2010)

ameekplec. said:


> I love these pens as they're really fine, and the ink doesn't really smudge or bleed (as it's a ball point, not roller ball):
> http://www.pentel.com/catalog_product.php?id=83


Thanks for the fast reply and the added pic, Ameekplec!^^

Looking forward to hear from more ppl~

Jennifer^^


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## Philip.Chan.92 (Apr 25, 2010)

I am the only one out of my friends who write cursive, I used to have this fountain pen and I loved writing with it. It's really good for cursive and makes your writing look like exemplary calligraphy  The cheap ones are a little rougher when you write, you really "feel" the paper if you know what I mean, some people like that feeling, personally I love it, or you can opt to get a more expensive one and they are much smoother. Not too knowledgeable about fountain pens but so maybe someone else can shed some light on brands and such. Kind of hard to write small with it but it's something that everyone who write in cursive should give a shot.


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## jen_jen_ng (Apr 20, 2010)

Philip.Chan.92 said:


> I am the only one out of my friends who write cursive, I used to have this fountain pen and I loved writing with it. It's really good for cursive and makes your writing look like exemplary calligraphy  The cheap ones are a little rougher when you write, you really "feel" the paper if you know what I mean, some people like that feeling, personally I love it, or you can opt to get a more expensive one and they are much smoother. Not too knowledgeable about fountain pens but so maybe someone else can shed some light on brands and such. Kind of hard to write small with it but it's something that everyone who write in cursive should give a shot.


I looove cursive writings. I don't have the best cursive writing. But cursive writing style itself is very nice. And no, I wouldn't suggest any one, especially cursive writers to try writing small. Writing small is very restricted (very opposite from cursive writing - no flow) and is quite time consuming (not for those who are used to writing really fast and still want it to be legible)

Hehe, I know what you by "feel" the paper. For my current purpose though, it doesn't matter. Just as long as I can print small. Price wise, I think there are some cheap/affordable ones that I'm just not aware of. I'm pretty open to different price range - as long as it's not ridiculous, ie. 3-digit price @[email protected] lol

Thought I might as well share my four main styles of writing. I really don't write that small, as you'll see below 









In case you can't read any of my writings =( Here's what I wrote:
1. I write like this when I have to or when there is not enough space
2. I write like this when I use a pen and still want to be neat
3. I write like this when I'm in a rush and sloppy
4. I write like this when I want to fill up space or in a good mood

Jennifer


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## Joeee (Apr 3, 2010)

Your writing is sooo much better than mine. Lol


I thought the title was 'Help Jen find the perfect man'. lmao


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## jen_jen_ng (Apr 20, 2010)

Joeee said:


> Your writing is sooo much better than mine. Lol


Awwws, thank you for your compliments Joeee. I'm sure yours are nice too. My writings often looks like the third sloppy style in the image that I shared above  hehe. I don't write often ever since I bought a small laptop that I can take it any where with me. And I don't write as fast and neat anymore =( It's either one or the other



Joeee said:


> I thought the title was 'Help Jen find the perfect man'. lmao


LOL!!!!!! I wouldn't mind getting some suggestions on that if it could be thaaat easy to 

Jennifer


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## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

For ultrafine, check out some of the drafting pens. There are tips of 0.1mm. The problem w/them on writing paper vs drafting paper is the "bleeding" of what you wrote.

PC92: I'm a huge fountain pen fan and have quite the collection packed away.

Without breaking the bank, a wonderful fountain pen is the Waterman Expert. Last I remember they are ~$100. Nice weight and proportion.

Mont Blanc is, IMHO, the mainstream luxury of fountain pens. As PC92 mentioned, it's a very smooth writing pen. Watermans are pretty smooth...when you get to the 18K/palladium nibs, it's like writing on glass. Then again, the paper is just as imprtant as the pen iteslf.

For the superfine tips, I recommend Namiki-Pilot fountain pens.

Then there are inks...another area of obsession...

Fountain Pen Pron


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## ynot (Jan 30, 2010)

"My writings often looks like the third sloppy style in the image that I shared ... etc."

I find women have better penmanship and yours is definitely not the exception to my observations.


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## jen_jen_ng (Apr 20, 2010)

wtac said:


> For ultrafine, check out some of the drafting pens. There are tips of 0.1mm. [/URL]


Thanks for the info WTAC~
I wasn't thinking about fountain pens when I started this thread, but I guess I can look into it and give it a try.

I did a brief search and I found out there are some pens that are 0.03mm O.O how exciting! lol
I emailed some ppl/companies for more info. So just waiting around for their reply and any other gtaa member's input. Hopefully I'll find the perfect one sometime soon^^



ynot said:


> "My writings often looks like the third sloppy style in the image that I shared ... etc."
> 
> I find women have better penmanship and yours is definitely not the exception to my observations.


oh yeah?









"The moment of truth: sloppy writing contest!"

 jk jk
I guess you're right about most women's handwriting in comparison to men. But it's not quite true for my writings. I would say I am good at faking nice handwritings, lol. You'll never see me write that neatly unless it's under special circumstances, or in some sort of holiday greeting cards  ehehe.

True penmanship, in my opinion, are those that can write really fast AND neat. And I as mentioned above somewhere, I can only do either one but never both at the same time 

Jen


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## AquaNekoMobile (Feb 26, 2010)

OMG I love your writing JenJen. Looks like you can pack 3-4 lines per line. Amazing. Now see if you can write on grains of rice next.


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## jen_jen_ng (Apr 20, 2010)

AquaNekoMobile said:


> OMG I love your writing JenJen. Looks like you can pack 3-4 lines per line. Amazing. Now see if you can write on grains of rice next.


Awwws  you're too sweet^^

And lol, hmm, maybe two lines per line. 
But not sure about writing on grains of rice -- unless you can help me find the perfect fine pen, I think I probably can~ lol.









Left side paper - Typical Hilroy line papers that most of us in T.O. would be familiar with

Right side paper - Typical Vietnamese notebooks. When I was younger, to save money (and well, rather spend money on other yummy foods or fun things) I would fill in the little lines to save space, lol 

And no (in case some of you are wondering), Vietnamese ppl don't write as small as I do. They use up the space like ppl would for Hilroy line spaces. Except, those little lines are to ensure all your letters are the exact same size, particularly with cursive writings.

Jennifer


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## ynot (Jan 30, 2010)

"oh yeah?"

YEAH....your penmanship is still legible...
which may disqualify you from becoming a physician who writes prescriptions...lol


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## gucci17 (Oct 11, 2007)

ouch...your intentional sloppy writing is like my regular writing


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## Windowlicka (Mar 5, 2008)

When I was at school back in the UK we'd use German "Rotring" drafting pens a fair deal - some of their pen tips are crazy fine - would they be any use?

http://www.rotring.com/en/produkte.php

I have no idea where you'd begin to look for them in Canada though - I have a feeling that they're typically only distributed throughout Europe?


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## NVES (Apr 21, 2010)

I too write small, and have not yet found a pen that I like either b/c of bleeding, or smudging. 

The solution I've found is to use mechanical pencils - never bleeds.

Just my two pennies.
Also I agree that writing, or even printing is becoming a dying art.

Take care,
Aaron


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## jen_jen_ng (Apr 20, 2010)

ynot said:


> "oh yeah?"
> 
> YEAH....your penmanship is still legible...
> which may disqualify you from becoming a physician who writes prescriptions...lol


lol!
awww damit! *sniffles*




gucci17 said:


> ouch...your intentional sloppy writing is like my regular writing


Awwws >.< (sorry!)
Well that is pretty much my typical writing 90% of the time. If you pull any of my binders at home and you'll see the notes I take in class. And... that's how my writing looks  ehehe
(And you'll also see a lot of "..." for stuff mentioned that I missed and doodling, lol)

So don't feel too bad. Soon, technology will take over entirely and we'll all have any neat style of writing we want a click away. Programs like Microsoft may even have a font style called Sloppy for those of us who are sick of neat writings (if they didn't thought of something like that already, lol - I didn't check)

Jennifer


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## jen_jen_ng (Apr 20, 2010)

Windowlicka said:


> When I was at school back in the UK we'd use German "Rotring" drafting pens a fair deal - some of their pen tips are crazy fine - would they be any use?
> 
> http://www.rotring.com/en/produkte.php
> 
> I have no idea where you'd begin to look for them in Canada though - I have a feeling that they're typically only distributed throughout Europe?


Hi Windowlicka~
Thanks for the info. I really like the brand.
The website does not include Canada in their store location/shipping.
I think it will be difficult for me to find it around Canada.
One solution I can think of is to buy it from ebay and have it ship over.
However I haven't found one that is fine enough - the finest pen I came across through searching is 0.03mm =D! I'm still waiting for an email reply to make sure that they have it (the store is in Toronto too!).

Still I like the website though. If the 0.03mm is not what expected it to be I might consider Rotring. But first I like to look for pens around GTA first and perhaps get to try them before purchasing~



NVES said:


> I too write small, and have not yet found a pen that I like either b/c of bleeding, or smudging.
> 
> The solution I've found is to use mechanical pencils - never bleeds.


Thanks Aaron~

Yes, after starting this thread, you all gave me a few good pointers and I am now looking into more unique pens (drafting/mechanical/art pens, etc.)

Thanks all,
Jennifer^^


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## gucci17 (Oct 11, 2007)

jen_jen_ng said:


> lol!
> awww damit! *sniffles*
> 
> 
> ...


Now you're just patronizing me.  lol

I bet you can draw straight lines too! This is mine... ~~~~~~~


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## jen_jen_ng (Apr 20, 2010)

gucci17 said:


> Now you're just patronizing me.  lol
> 
> I bet you can draw straight lines too! This is mine... ~~~~~~~


lol! Awwws, gucci17... >.< nOoOoOo~

and no, I can't draw straight lines either. I have to use a ruler.
I really envy those who can write in a straight line on blank sheet of papers O.O
In the image below, you will see my writings are not straight and do not follow the underlines that I drew, lol  - that's because I drew the lines with the ruler afterwards >.< *smacks head*

I decided to post (probably) one last pic of my writing (I carry a camera with me all the time and have a habit of snapping pics of random things and also keep a picture journal - so it's a piece of cake for me to snap a pic of something and post right away)
- Someone actually PMed me and asked when on earth do I have to write so small, ahahaha. So I decided to show an example here, probably there is one other person that must have wondered the same thing. 










That's my uni's agenda. I hate this year's colour theme, bleh. But I use it because it's free . Particularly this year, the monthly view changed. It used to be one month per page but now it's two months per page so now I have to write smaller than usual and my pens can't write that small with clarity. I like monthly view because I get to see other upcoming things all on one page.

Yep~

Jennifer


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## acer (May 18, 2010)

try jetpens.com ... they have a lot of really nice pens... 

and I know what you mean about getting really fine point pens here. I have to order some pens from korea to get 0.25 (sometimes 0.2, the thinnest I think is 0.05 or something crazy) mm point pens, but jetpens has some that are .28 I think, they change their stock a lot to get new stuff... one pencil they have automatic rotation for the the lead so it stays point and doesn't get dull and make huge lines. 

I find that once you go below 0.25 the pens feels scratchy on paper made here, but if you can get paper from Japan or Korea, they have thicker paper that kind of feels like plastic, so it's not that bad.


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## marblerye (Jul 25, 2010)

i've tried many different drafting pens in the past when i played around with making tiny comics for the university paper but sadly didn't ever make the cut.. 

a brand that i particularly liked because of their wide assortment of different fine tips was Sakura (sakuraofamerica . com) and their wonderful collection called the Sakura Pigma Micron ink pens. Their fine tips range from 08 (0.50mm) to a tiny 005 (0.20mm) which is almost too tiny. 

I found that it didn't bleed as long as I used the right type of paper to draw on; art paper tends to take the writing and not absorb it like a sponge to smear the lines, nor keep it suspended and wet for you to smudge it. However specialty pens like this being used to everyday writing or note taking can get costly...

They are available at every Curry's art store, and De Serres art stores as well.


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## marblerye (Jul 25, 2010)

Sidenote- I also write in all caps, but all the time; so much so that I can't stop anymore and it drives my profs CRAZY! lol


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## jen_jen_ng (Apr 20, 2010)

acer said:


> try jetpens.com ... they have a lot of really nice pens...
> 
> and I know what you mean about getting really fine point pens here. I have to order some pens from korea to get 0.25 (sometimes 0.2, the thinnest I think is 0.05 or something crazy) mm point pens, but jetpens has some that are .28 I think, they change their stock a lot to get new stuff...


thank you for your suggestion, Acer^^
yeah, i saw their selections and you're right, they have quite a lot of really nice pens that i would like to try

I'm particularly glad that you also mentioned about the pencil:



acer said:


> one pencil they have automatic rotation for the the lead so it stays point and doesn't get dull and make huge lines.


That's soo neat! Something I really want. Although I don't use pencils often, but that is what I do when I write with led pencils. I had to stopped every few words to rotate the pencil and the size of my writings were not consistent 

So I'll definitely look into it^^

Thanks again, Acer

~ Jennifer


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## jen_jen_ng (Apr 20, 2010)

marblerye said:


> i've tried many different drafting pens in the past when i played around with making tiny comics for the university paper but sadly didn't ever make the cut..


Do you still make tiny comics now? 



marblerye said:


> a brand that i particularly liked because of their wide assortment of different fine tips was Sakura (sakuraofamerica . com) and their wonderful collection called the Sakura Pigma Micron ink pens. Their fine tips range from 08 (0.50mm) to a tiny 005 (0.20mm) which is almost too tiny.
> 
> However specialty pens like this being used to everyday writing or note taking can get costly...
> 
> They are available at every Curry's art store, and De Serres art stores as well.


Glad to hear you like that pen because I had that one in mind too. I did a few researching, and the top two pens that I'm considering are:

*Sakura Pigma Micron Sets*
- they have assorted colours and, if I read it correctly, 0.01mm tip! 

*COPIC Multiliner SP*
- heard it's pretty good - 0.03mm tip!
- i won't use this pen for everyday writing but it's still a plus that the ink is refillable 

*If anyone used any of these pens, please share me your reviews (and help me save money - from buying the wrong ones, lol)*

I plan on checking these pens out this weekend (hopefully).
So excited^^



marblerye said:


> Sidenote- I also write in all caps, but all the time; so much so that I can't stop anymore and it drives my profs CRAZY! lol


LOL! I used to write all-caps to the point that I couldn't stop too. The funny thing in my case was it drove ME crazy. I write slower in caps, so some point in high school I decided to stop writing in caps but every time when I stopped to think about what to write next or got distracted, I would unconciously revert to writing in caps for a really long time before I realize it 

~ Jennifer


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## acer (May 18, 2010)

yeah my friend has those sakura pens, they are ok... but the smaller tips (below 0.20) are really scratchy... you need actual art stock paper for those and even still it is a little scratchy I find. The smallest tip my friend has is I think the .05 and it's like writing on sandpaper, which sucks cause it looks really nice.


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## jen_jen_ng (Apr 20, 2010)

acer said:


> yeah my friend has those sakura pens, they are ok... but the smaller tips (below 0.20) are really scratchy... you need actual art stock paper for those and even still it is a little scratchy I find. The smallest tip my friend has is I think the .05 and it's like writing on sandpaper, which sucks cause it looks really nice.


Oh~ thanks for letting me know, Acer^^ I'll keep that in mind when I look for pens. I hope they leave it out for me to try... lol, I doubt it though.

I'm still really tempted to try 0.03mm  As I small writer, I just feel like I should own one! lol
At the moment I'm more concerned about the fine lines it makes vs. how smooth it writes - so as long it works, I'm happy.
Again, I don't write small often. Each time I do is only about a paragraph long so I think it's ok... We'll see~ (be ready to say "I told you so" lol)

Jennifer


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## Fish_Man (Apr 9, 2010)

jen_jen_ng said:


> Thanks for the info WTAC~
> I wasn't thinking about fountain pens when I started this thread, but I guess I can look into it and give it a try.
> 
> I did a brief search and I found out there are some pens that are 0.03mm O.O how exciting! lol
> ...


That is still pretty neat writing to me. You should see mine 

Anyways, here are my suggestion of pens that I think is amazing.

1) MontBlanc Generation Rollerball Pen
2) Cross Classic Century Pen


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## jen_jen_ng (Apr 20, 2010)

Fish_Man said:


> That is still pretty neat writing to me. You should see mine
> 
> Anyways, here are my suggestion of pens that I think is amazing.
> 
> ...


lol 

 woooow, MontBlanc is so expensive - triple digits!

nothing I write have such a value that'll need such a pen, lol 

mmm... who knows, maybe later  hehe but not now~

But thanks for sharing, Fishman. Haha, if anything, you gave me an idea of what to write down in my list of christmas presents requests  jk

Jen


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## Fish_Man (Apr 9, 2010)

jen_jen_ng said:


> lol
> 
> woooow, MontBlanc is so expensive - triple digits!
> 
> ...


Yes they are expensive so obviously I didn't buy it  Got both as a gift. 
That is not a bad christmas present idea!


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## jen_jen_ng (Apr 20, 2010)

Fish_Man said:


> Yes they are expensive so obviously I didn't buy it  Got both as a gift.
> That is not a bad christmas present idea!


that's pretty sweeeeeeet! lucky youuuuu

 lol, i dun think i know anyone who would give me a christmas present at that price, well... especially not a pen at that price at least >.<

Jennifer


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## Fish_Man (Apr 9, 2010)

jen_jen_ng said:


> that's pretty sweeeeeeet! lucky youuuuu
> 
> lol, i dun think i know anyone who would give me a christmas present at that price, well... especially not a pen at that price at least >.<
> 
> Jennifer


One day. Maybe the parents of a student might?


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## jen_jen_ng (Apr 20, 2010)

Fish_Man said:


> One day. Maybe the parents of a student might?


lol! i don't think so~~


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## Joeee (Apr 3, 2010)

Maybe you should give up and just look for the perfect man. Lol

OMG WHAT IF THE PERFECT MAN BUYS YOU THE PERFECT PEN?


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## jen_jen_ng (Apr 20, 2010)

Joeee said:


> Maybe you should give up and just look for the perfect man. Lol
> 
> OMG WHAT IF THE PERFECT MAN BUYS YOU THE PERFECT PEN?


LOOOOOOOOL, Joeee!

(so much for coming up with a thread title that rhymes >.< baaaaad idea, lol)

hahas, I think that'll be harder to find than a perfect pen
I'll probably have better luck with finding the perfect pen instead~ and sooner, lolz

although your idea would be pretty sweeet! hahas~~

Jennifer


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## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

I'll stick to pens as one doesn't get upset if you chose one or the other nor do they care that you have a myriad to choose from depending on your mood that day/moment.

Thinking back one summer when I bought 3 really nice fountain pens that I couldn't resist, I was back in the dating scene. None worked out but considering the time, $$$ and BS...the 3 pens were a steal .


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## jen_jen_ng (Apr 20, 2010)

wtac said:


> I'll stick to pens as *one doesn't get upset if you chose one or the other nor do they care that you have a myriad to choose from depending on your mood that day/moment.*
> 
> Thinking back one summer when I bought 3 really nice fountain pens that I couldn't resist, I was back in the dating scene. None worked out but considering the time, $$$ and BS...the 3 pens were a steal .


ahahahas 
*nods nods*


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## marblerye (Jul 25, 2010)

jen_jen_ng said:


> Do you still make tiny comics now?


Unfortunately not. I still draw in my sketchbook from time to time; I'd pick out a celebrity or important figure and sketch them in a photorealism style. I used to be really into art (pencil, painting, pencil crayon, drafting) but for some reason sorta stepped away from it all.. which reminds me I should probably start drawing in the sketchbook again..



jen_jen_ng said:


> LOL! I used to write all-caps to the point that I couldn't stop too. The funny thing in my case was it drove ME crazy. I write slower in caps, so some point in high school I decided to stop writing in caps but every time when I stopped to think about what to write next or got distracted, I would unconciously revert to writing in caps for a really long time before I realize it


I started with all caps in high school I've not gone back since. Now, writing in non-caps feels so foreign to me.. and it reminds me that my penmanship is really ugly when I do. Same with cursive as well. Comparable to an elementary student.. 

But nowadays every prof wants things typed so I don't mind typing at all. As a child I learned the proper way to type (with all 10 fingers.. not just 1 or 2) and I can easily manage 100-150 wpm so it almost makes writing obsolete! 

except during exams....


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## jen_jen_ng (Apr 20, 2010)

marblerye said:


> Unfortunately not. I still draw in my sketchbook from time to time; I'd pick out a celebrity or important figure and sketch them in a photorealism style. I used to be really into art (pencil, painting, pencil crayon, drafting) but for some reason sorta stepped away from it all.. which reminds me I should probably start drawing in the sketchbook again..


Yeah, you should definitely keep up with sketching and other art forms~! and perhaps share some of your sketches^^ A while ago, I remember someone started a thread about what else do we do aside from fishkeeping 



marblerye said:


> But nowadays every prof wants things typed so I don't mind typing at all. As a child I learned the proper way to type (with all 10 fingers.. not just 1 or 2) and I can easily manage 100-150 wpm so it almost makes writing obsolete!


Woooooooow. Impressive! I didn't learn how to type properly until about grade 11 



marblerye said:


> except during exams....


Ugh, yeah, I hate it when I have to write short essays for exams. I write sooo slow and my writings are so messy >.<

Jennifer


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