# Enough is enough!!



## daking

OK! I am going to see if I can "guilt" the wife in to picking up a filter for my aquarium. Right now I have the Ehiem 2213 on a 55 gallon (I think). I do realize its pushing it so I got an aqua clear 50 powerhead withte filter bottom to assist. Things seem to be working BUT I know it can be better. I need opinions on what size to get. Do I stick with Ehiem and go to the pro line? do I just get a bigger classic size ( I noticed the 2213 and 2215 have the same hose diameter.. i think). Or do I shy away from Ehiem and go to marineland (or marine___) or the other canister filters and what size/ model. I am going to be basing the purchase on your well known experiences and knowledge. The information gained so far on this site has been prooven time and time again (especially when I ignore it, and realize I am dumb and should have paid attention).

I am going to save the 2213 for the aquarium I am setting up in my baby's room, so I can whine to the wife about getting one now while they are on sale (PJ's yorkdale)

HELP PLEASE!


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## ameekplec.

For your 55g, go with the 2217. Don't even bother with the Marineland crap. Eheim all the way.

IMO, don't bother with the Pro line. You're better off with the classics. I've had both, and all I use now are the classics.


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## Jackson

Rena's are awesome filters they do a way better job than any ehiem. Ehiem is just a name and it is advertised very well. Plus any store you go into will tell you take the ehiem because you will be spending a lot more money and that is all they care about. I swear by the renas they are great. Hardly any bypass and they are sludge extractors. If money is no prob go and pick up the biggest canister you can find. You can never over filter a tank but you can have too much flow. That is easy to fix. 

I love the XP4's they are big and the price is very fair. One of them on the 55(?) would do one awesome job.

EDIT- stay away from fluvals they are not worth a dime.


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## daking

RENA! that was the name! I keep looking at the 405... then they have this huuuge contraption that looks like a 5 gallon bucket with a lid with screw on clasps to hold it on... I think its a little over-kill and a little over budget... kind of looks intimdating that if I dont do something I will blow up the apartment


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## Jackson

daking said:


> RENA! that was the name! I keep looking at the 405... then they have this huuuge contraption that looks like a 5 gallon bucket with a lid with screw on clasps to hold it on... I think its a little over-kill and a little over budget... kind of looks intimdating that if I dont do something I will blow up the apartment


The ones you metion are all Fluvals. They are crap. I have an FX5 the big bucket thing and it is the worst filter I have ever bought. Once the clips are on your tank they are stuck there. You risk cracking the tank if you try to take them off depedning on how thick the glass is. Mine is very thick so the clips are stuck 

Here is a link to the filters I mentioned >>> http://www.planetrena.com/Rena-XP-Filstar-Filters.html

Oh and you are right with the FX5 if you dont let the pressure out water will shoot out like a firehose LOL I know it has happend to me


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## daking

sorry I saw soo many, so many designs, soo many numbers, Thanks for clarification.. it was actually the xp3... the bigger square one I was sticking to... I do like Ehiem, but have to agree that its a name you pay for. Also it seems easier for me to change stuff when its all in one.. but I am sure if I get a different one that I will like it more


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## Cory_Dad

Jackson said:


> Rena's are awesome filters they do a way better job than any ehiem. Ehiem is just a name and it is advertised very well. Plus any store you go into will tell you take the ehiem because you will be spending a lot more money and that is all they care about. I swear by the renas they are great. Hardly any bypass and they are sludge extractors. If money is no prob go and pick up the biggest canister you can find. You can never over filter a tank but you can have too much flow. That is easy to fix.
> 
> I love the XP4's they are big and the price is very fair. One of them on the 55(?) would do one awesome job.
> 
> EDIT- stay away from fluvals they are not worth a dime.


I think you're being a bit harsh on the Eheims. I too have an XP4 and Eheim 2213 and 2215. Although the XP4 is easier to clean and change media, it's noisier than the Eheims. The hoses on the XP4 are more flexible than on the Eheims but I've somehow picked up an air leak from the last time I clean the XP4 and I'll be darned if I can find it. I also think that due to the design of easy clean with the XP4 I think that the filter media is more likely to be bypassed than with the Eheim.

As for longevity, well, I haven't lost either ones yet but from reading a lot of other posts I'm of the 'opinion' that the Eheims last longer.

Would I buy another XP4? If the price was right but if I do buy another cannister, it will probably be an Eheim.

My $.02


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## ameekplec.

Jackson said:


> Rena's are awesome filters they do a way better job than any ehiem. Ehiem is just a name and it is advertised very well. Plus any store you go into will tell you take the ehiem because you will be spending a lot more money and that is all they care about. I swear by the renas they are great. Hardly any bypass and they are sludge extractors.


Renas are more expensive, and are rated for less volume than Eheims of the same price range:
http://www.petsandponds.com/en/aquarium-supplies/c5809/c7359/index.html

Also, Eheims are dependable as hell, and replacement parts are readily available.


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## CICHthis

If I had to choose between the two, definitely go EHEIM. Soooo quiet. Why don't you build a sump/ wet-dry, if you have a spare tank lying around and over filter that 55. Thats if you have the space under or beside the tank.

That's my 0.04 cents.


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## cablemike

Pickering flea market, see the fish dude.. get a jebo for like 60.00 and it works better then the ehiem as i have both and i see the difference.. This is what runs my 55 gallon reef for over a year now without a problem..


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## daking

Jebo eh? hmm I may check that out!


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## ameekplec.

Jebo, Mingjiang, etc etc all Chinese crap. It's cheap for a reason. Stick with Eheim and don't be wavered by the cheap price tag. You'll thank yourself in 10 years when the Eheim is still running quietly.


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## Jackson

ameekplec. said:


> Renas are more expensive, and are rated for less volume than Eheims of the same price range:
> http://www.petsandponds.com/en/aquarium-supplies/c5809/c7359/index.html
> 
> Also, Eheims are dependable as hell, and replacement parts are readily available.


Renas cost less push more water and have a larger volume.

For the price of a large ehiem pro you can buy 2 renas of any size.

As for noise never heard my rena once.

I will stick with the renas. You cant change my mind I have both and I know the rena is a better filter. When it comes to mechanical filtration renas are on another level then ehiems. I can see the difference.

I will also stick to what I said. Ehiem is just a name that is pushed ont hobbiest. It is burned into our minds that they are better. I used to think this way as well until I gave the rena's a shot and now I know there is a filter out there that is just as good or better then the ehiems and they wont cost me an arm and a leg.

Just because an ehiem lasts 10 years does no tmean it is running like brand new. They do lose power over time just like a car.

Oh and becasue the ehiems cost more that means they are better?

Hey just my $.02


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## daking

i wish they were like cars. take em for a test drive and see how they work


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## Jackson

daking said:


> i wish they were like cars. take em for a test drive and see how they work


You know I read a review last year from a university in the states. They simply said eheims are the cadilac of canisters. that is why you pay so much because of the name. They both perform almost the same each doing better in other areas.

People say eheims last 10 years. Renas have not been around as long as them so the storries have not started. also people like to talk who knows if they are telling a fib. I dont


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## CICHthis

cablemike said:


> Pickering flea market, see the fish dude.. get a jebo for like 60.00 and it works better then the ehiem as i have both and i see the difference.. This is what runs my 55 gallon reef for over a year now without a problem..


What else does the fish dude at the flea market have for sale....


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## _Green_

I have an eheim 2215 on a 55gallon tank, it's less than a year old and so far I've had to replace one of the quick connects (probably my fault) and just today the impeller shaft and bushings. 

It does seem to work pretty well, but I won't be buying another one unless I find a good deal on it. The media is pricey (if you go with the eheim brand) the filter pads also seem rather pricey to me. That said this is the first canister filter I've ever owned.

I am planning to eventually add a second canister and I think I'll try a rena.

that's my $.02

I don't like that there is no media basket in the filter, that makes changing media a pain in the neck.

the filter is quiet, real quiet. I can't say if it's quieter than the rena's or any other brand though


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## daking

yea I think I am going to go with rena as well. After looking at prices and what the filters can apparently handle, the bang for your buck is with rena. I am still being tempted with the 2217 though. Really either or... see what deals I can find


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## aeri

EHEIM!

there's a fish store in that flea market???
o god i worked right across the street for 2 years and never even checked


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## daking

well I did pick up the Rena XP3. Its quiet as i have an enclosed cabnet. The flow is amazing and I love how its easily adjusted. I like the one piece shut off. Its already working to the point that I can notice a difference of it clearing my cloudy water!!! now Im just needing a few things for my co2 and I will be off to the races


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## CICHthis

I don't know if you have bought stuff from John, he's the guy fromt Price Network that travels to Kennedy Commons and he sells everything fairly cheap, tax in. He sells everything from food to equipment. Send him an email and I'm sure he will stear you in the right direction. I don't know if you know the site but here it is:

http://www.pricenetwork.ca/deal/sug...onto_on_saturday_the_7th_february-218399.html

Real good guy to deal with.


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## characinfan

*Filter media on the cheap*

Hey, I like this thread on the merits of different canister filters.

Do you guys have any tips on ways to save money with filter media? Should we start another thread on it?

I have a Fluval 104. It's the 3rd one in 10 years. (At one point, my mom, when I was out of the country, replaced a broken impeller shaft on a discontinued model with a toothpick, and it worked passably until I came back to Canada and bought a new unit!) I know with my filter, I can buy carbon in bulk and make cheap carbon bags for the filter using nylon stockings. One LFS also let me trade snails for filter fibre. Any other tips?

Characinfan


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## daking

i say seperate thread on media filter stuff.


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## Mr Fishies

Woooha! A filter war...we must have too much free time. 



Jackson said:


> Renas cost less push more water and have a larger volume.
> 
> For the price of a large ehiem pro you can buy 2 renas of any size.


More water flow does not necessarily mean more filtration - if more water is bypassing media. Speaking of media, I think a considerable portion of the cost of an Eheim is the bio-media which performs much better than the ceramic rings that Renas use.

I didn't see anyone recommend an Ehiem Pro here. So 2 Rena for 1 Eheim? Really, where? Was some store having a buy a filter get a filter for $10? I see a 2217 costing about $10 more than an XP3.



Jackson said:


> Oh and becasue the ehiems cost more that means they are better?


The rather simple and obvious counter to that argument, which I have proven to myself many time over the years with many things other than aquarium gear is that, _sometimes things *cost *less because they are *worth* less.
_


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## daking

from what I can see on the Rena I just got yesterday and even in just 1 day I have seen a cleaner tank, no particles floating around. The water goes in the top and down the sides then back up through the centre and thus through all the media. The eheim I had went in at the bottom and up to the top and out. I could see more bypass in my eheim than the rena I have now. I still would buy an Eheim if I had the chance, but the deal I got on teh Rena was something I could not really let pass. I still need to get the custom media (custom only because I pick it out from the store). I am going to probably be using the eheim media (biobals and tubes) in conjunction with the sponges of various degrees along with some carbon and filter floss as a polisher. there is going to be a new thread about what goes in it, so I can create the best filtration with what I have.


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## Zebrapl3co

I own it all. From Eclipes canopy to DIY sump to a comercial sump to an ehiem to a Rena to a HOB filter.
My favourite seems to be the eclipes canopy. Adds O2 to the tank and that keeps your fish lively and healthy.
The problem with all canister filter is that they don't add O2 into the tank. I don't like that and I don't like splashing the surface water too. Makes a mess on the glass cover and lights. That's the number 1 draw back I find with the canister filters. Clean filter water but also dead water (lack of o2) in my opinion. As a result, I have to add an air stone in every tank that runs with a canister.
Splashing, I can only get away with the wet/dry sump. They also do a better job than the canister. Adds O2 back into the water and let the fish breath easier.
All of the filteration system failed at one point or another. 3 strikes (as in they failed to restart after a power failiure) for the ehiem and 4 strikes for the rena. 1 strike for the commercial sump and like 10+ strikes for the DIY sump (actually it was the sucky hydro pump that was the problem).
7 strikes for the eclipes and 20+ strikes for the HOB.
In my opinon, there is still lots of room for improvements to our filtration system.

*Never pay again for live sex! | Hot girls doing naughty stuff for free! | Chat for free!*


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## wtac

Of all the canister filters, the best bang for the $$$ is the Rena XP line. Next is the Eheim Classic line. I have an 2011 that's alt least 20years old and still works like a champ.

Of the two, I much prefer the Rena from a servicing aspect as it is very easy and fast to clean. Eheims take a bit more time due to that they do not have compartments for the different media. With the Rena, you can use a cleaned tray for the next tray of media to clean.

Ehiem Pro series I would avoid. The issues that I have encountered are mainly due to the connection of the hose assembly to the motorhead. The hoses MUST be supported so that the sagging does not put any stress at the connection point. Overtime, it will stretch the seating/fitting at the motorhead and you will end up with a small leak. The time to get the new motor seating assembly takes a month or two...at least. For those that have this line of canister filters, make sure that the hoses are supported to help avoid this situation.

The Eheim Classic line is rated for planted systems with a low-mid bioload and regular weekly water changes. We here in NA, *generally speaking*, tend to have a higher bioload and fewer water changes so the Eheim rated numbers can be misleading. IMHO, we should follow a 6-10x turnover rate vs the European/German 3-4x turnover rate, if a canister filter is the sole source of filtration/water movement, otherwise supplement water movement w/a powerhead.

JME/2C


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## daking

wtac said:


> Of all the canister filters, the best bang for the $$$ is the Rena XP line. Next is the Eheim Classic line. I have an 2011 that's alt least 20years old and still works like a champ.
> 
> Of the two, I much prefer the Rena from a servicing aspect as it is very easy and fast to clean. Eheims take a bit more time due to that they do not have compartments for the different media. With the Rena, you can use a cleaned tray for the next tray of media to clean.
> 
> Ehiem Pro series I would avoid. The issues that I have encountered are mainly due to the connection of the hose assembly to the motorhead. The hoses MUST be supported so that the sagging does not put any stress at the connection point. Overtime, it will stretch the seating/fitting at the motorhead and you will end up with a small leak. The time to get the new motor seating assembly takes a month or two...at least. For those that have this line of canister filters, make sure that the hoses are supported to help avoid this situation.
> 
> The Eheim Classic line is rated for planted systems with a low-mid bioload and regular weekly water changes. We here in NA, *generally speaking*, tend to have a higher bioload and fewer water changes so the Eheim rated numbers can be misleading. IMHO, we should follow a 6-10x turnover rate vs the European/German 3-4x turnover rate, if a canister filter is the sole source of filtration/water movement, otherwise supplement water movement w/a powerhead.
> 
> JME/2C


wow! i have both now, and I do agree, even through 3 days of ownership of the rena, I had thought about the eheim being under powered for my tank (tank too big for filter) and after changing to the rena, the water instantly cleared, the fish are more lively and the plants are opening their leaves more. I tried to explain that the eheim wasnt filtering properly (was filtering but the size wasnt keeping up with the needed bio filtering), after her reading this, it has now re-enforced what I was trying to explain to her! Thanks!!


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## Jackson

Mr Fishies;48042]Woooha! A filter war...we must have too much free time. 

More water flow does not necessarily mean more filtration - if more water is bypassing media. Speaking of media, I think a considerable portion of the cost of an Eheim is the bio-media which performs much better than the ceramic rings that Renas use.

--Renas have little bypass read and you will see.

--So who says you cant put the ehiem media in a rena? This can be done it is not against the rules LOL

I didn't see anyone recommend an Ehiem Pro here. So 2 Rena for 1 Eheim? Really, where? Was some store having a buy a filter get a filter for $10? I see a 2217 costing about $10 more than an XP3.

--Ehiems pro's are crap classics are much better. I did mention them as I own a few.

--I also stated a large ehiem pro will cost the same as 2 of most renas.

The rather simple and obvious counter to that argument, which I have proven to myself many time over the years with many things other than aquarium gear is that, _sometimes things *cost *less because they are *worth* less.
[/I

--This is not true sometimes things cost less because they dont carry a big name with them. There are many things out there that cost less than others and do a just the same or better._


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## Mr Fishies

Jackson said:


> --Renas have little bypass read and you will see.
> 
> --So who says you cant put the ehiem media in a rena? This can be done it is not against the rules LOL


I guess "bypass" was the wrong word. What I meant was that the lower flow rate of an Ehiem allows more contact time with the media. When the bio media is in an Ehiem it makes a pretty solid block for water to pass through and around. Water flows through Rena & Fluval ceramic rings much faster.

LOL? It's not a joke and I never said you couldn't use Ehiem media but if you spend a bunch of money on better media after the fact the filter is no longer as affordable. It's basic addition - LOL.



Jackson said:


> Mr Fishies said:
> 
> 
> 
> The rather simple and obvious counter to that argument, which I have proven to myself many time over the years with many things other than aquarium gear is that, _sometimes things *cost *less because they are *worth*_ less.
> 
> 
> 
> --This is not true sometimes things cost less because they dont carry a big name with them. There are many things out there that cost less than others and do a just the same or better.
Click to expand...

I never said things _*always *_cost more because they are better, I said *sometimes*. So are you sure you want to simply state "This is not true..."? That's a rather broad and tough to support stance. That flimsy reasoning could be used to argue that a Chevy Cobalt is the same quality as a Mercedes C Class. They both have 4 wheels, both carry 5 passengers, both even have names starting with "C", geez, they're the same thing. I think we all know that's not the case.

I struggle with the statement "They do lose power over time just like a car". The only moving parts are the impeller and shaft. If kept clean, there is no reason any power would be lost - save wear and tear - which is fixed by replacing the ceramic shaft in an Ehiem (which wears slower than the steel ones found in most filters, including Rena). If you can provide some sort of proof - as to why Ehiems loose power over time and what Rena has done to prevent the same thing from happening with their filters it's a moot point.

You also kept saying that Eheims cost and arm and a leg compared to Rena but the price difference is about $10. He asked about the classic line and you're comparing cost between Ehiem pro and Rena XP.

When someone asks advice, comparing dissimilar products to support your case and making statements that sound as if you have measurements or have performed testing to draw your conclusions is a disservice to the person looking for help.

---

My answer to answer daking's original question:

I won't make any wild claims that I can see, smell or taste the difference in clean water between the filters I have owned, because I have no proof to support it. Most of what can be offered in terms of advice is qualitative (touch, feel, ease of use, reliability etc) and having used (in alphabetical order) Ehiem, Fluval, Marineland, Rena, IMO:

Ehiem classic (2213, 2217) has proven most durable and problem free, but they are a very basic and simple design with no frills to go wrong. Quiet motor, easy to start, good hoses and connectors have never leaked. Filter maintenance is a bit more work, but it doesn't need to be done as often so that balances out the no media basket argument somewhat. This is just personal opinion, but I have to say I think the Eheim green output attachments look nicest in the tank. I sold a 2217 in a moment of weakness, currently still using only the 2213 but I wish I had my 2217 back I need a filter for my 75G.

The Fluvals old and new - are not as easy to start, the old hoses were too soft and twisted and kinked easily. One even burnt out after about 1 year - melted and deformed the motor case! The new ones come with this horrid (IMO) plastic, ridge filled, corrugated hose like vacuum cleaner hose that doesn't kink as bad but is prone to leaking and just asking for crud to build up and get caught in the hose. The new one I gave away to a friends kid (with warnings about what to watch for).

The Marineland (Magnum, not C) is the nosiest and probably the least efficient - needs to be cleaned often and is a PITA to clean and start, hard to get all the air out, didn't come with quick disconnects, but the damn thing won't die. I couldn't sell it so I still have it as a backup filter and since the XP3 expired, it's back in service. Marineland *hose *on the other hand rocks, it will never kink, has really thick walls and is my favorite by far. Some people think it's too stiff, but I guess I always keep filter runs as short and straight as possible so it's never been problem.

The Rena XP3 was a close second to Ehiem, very quiet too, but the plastic of the filter body felt flimsier and the hoses too. Easy to start, the media baskets were nice but it needed to be cleaned more often than the Eheim. A few times, I had problems seating the quick connect properly and had some minor leaks, but in the end it stopped working after about 2-1/2 years - after a power outage, the motor died and it would have cost about 1/2 the price of a new filter to replace it. To be fair, I think that expense would be the case for most filters. I liked it up until that day, so that is really my only beef with Rena. I have to point out though, that the Rena was the only appliance in the house that died after the power outage - including 3 other filters that were on the same circuit, 1 even on the same power bar.

Let's face it, after many years on the market an XP3 and 2217 are almost the same price, rated to filter about the same size tanks, if they were drastically different in terms of quality, one would have raised or dropped in price compared to the other. People have this argument all over the web over and over again with no clear winner because they are both good filters.

I personally don't want a filter with so much flow I have to restrict it because I am still paying for the electricity to run it. Although you can't over filter you can have too much flow, so buy the biggest filter you can afford that is not too big for your tank.

I'd still vote Ehiem as it is the only one that has never given me any problems, but Rena is, as I said a close second.

Go to the LFS and ask to see a demo model or one from a box and try the filter you intend to buy, feel the hose connections, canister clamps, disconnect fittings...play with it before you decide. Ask about replacement parts, impellers, shafts etc make sure you can easily get parts for your filter.


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## daking

and to support the last, i did infact get the rena weith media and brand new ehiem (green) hoses for 80 bucks. I just need to find some bio filter agent as it came with just sponges, lots of em. i put in filter floss and carbon and ammonia remover from fluval.. so reallly its got all 3 makes involved! hehe


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## Cory_Dad

daking said:


> and to support the last, i did infact get the rena weith media and brand new ehiem (green) hoses for 80 bucks. I just need to find some bio filter agent as it came with just sponges, lots of em. i put in filter floss and carbon and ammonia remover from fluval.. so reallly its got all 3 makes involved! hehe


Daking.

Question: Why are you putting carbon and ammonia remover into the cannister? Do you have a specific problem with your water that you need to use them?

If not, them leave them out.


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## daking

just to start things off as it was underpowered withthe smaller filter. Once its used up I am taking it out


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## Cory_Dad

daking said:


> just to start things off as it was underpowered withthe smaller filter. Once its used up I am taking it out


Well, you realize that with the ammo pack in you will be starving the bacteria of ammonia. As for the charcoal, your' just wasting it for nothing. I'd save it for when you really need it like when you need to remove meds after a treatment.

But hey, it's your tank.


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## daking

lol well that too! I had been using melafix, and water change after water change I (quoting a song) cant get the stink out, its been hangin' round for days!"


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## Cory_Dad

daking said:


> lol well that too! I had been using melafix, and water change after water change I (quoting a song) cant get the stink out, its been hangin' round for days!"


Fair enough. I wasn't ragging on you, I was just trying to save you money.

But do leave the ammo pack out; you're just hurting your bacteria. Ammo packs should only be used in emergencies such as a massive ammonia spike where you can't do a massive water change to lower it. I've also used ammo packs during an emergency med treatment in a small over populated quarantine tank that wasn't cycled.

Know your tools and use them wisely.

Cheers.


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## BillD

One point has caught my attention through this discussion, and that is that the claim that Eheims don't need to be cleaned as often. Fact of the matter is that filters need to be cleaned at an interval that has nothing to do with brand. So, if the statement is true, than Eheims are clearly less efficient, other wise they would need to be cleaned as often as other brands if they were doing the same job. Leaving solid material in a filter is equivalent to leaving it in the tank, so long intervals between services is counter productive, to the purpose of filtering which is to keep the water clean, and low in toxic contaminants.


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## _Green_

BillD said:


> One point has caught my attention through this discussion, and that is that the claim that Eheims don't need to be cleaned as often. Fact of the matter is that filters need to be cleaned at an interval that has nothing to do with brand. So, if the statement is true, than Eheims are clearly less efficient, other wise they would need to be cleaned as often as other brands if they were doing the same job. Leaving solid material in a filter is equivalent to leaving it in the tank, so long intervals between services is counter productive, to the purpose of filtering which is to keep the water clean, and low in toxic contaminants.


That's a good point.....this has turned into yet another thread where some are stead fast in thier believes that one is for superior to the rest. I own an eheim and touch wood have had success with the fish in that tank, in that they do seem to be healthy and loses are very low. That said there is a lot more particulate debris in the water than I would like. When I test the water the ammonia, nitrate and nitrites are almost none existent which is great, I just wish it would filter out more of the debris. My tank is fairly well planted for I can't vacuum the majority of the substrate. lately I've started running an hob at night to try and get more of the debris out of the water column and am seriously considering adding a second canister(brand yet to be determined) for no other reason than to clean up the debris and polish the water.

In my opinion the 2215 on a 55gallon tank does a good if not great job of removing toxins from the water, however when it come to mechanical filtering it does not get the job done.

another .02 worth


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## CICHthis

For the 55 G, use a AC 110 for water polishing. It does mine wonders, keeps any particulate from free floating.

.04 cents.


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## thepack

Right now I am using a Filstar xP4 AND an Aquaclear 70 on my tank. The intake strainers are 1 ft apart. I have , on numerous occasions watched particles of flake food drift past the xP4 intake strainer,within a cm. and drift over toward the AC. strainer with the appearance that it would bypass it at about the same distance, but as it got close,it speeded up and was sucked into the Aquaclear.
In the xP4 I only have the media which came with the purchase, and in the AC. I have 3 of the sponge inserts. I have the 3 because I intend to use 2 of them to help seed a new tank.
The point that I am trying to make is that since the AC. has a more powerful water flow, why spend all that money on a canister filter when you could use several aquaclears or some other HOB filters ?
Soon I will be setting up a 220 gal. tank and instead of using the xP4 and an Aquaclear 110, I'm thinking of putting 3 AC 110's on the 220 and leaving the xP4 with the AC 70 on my 60 gal.
What are your thoughts on all this ?


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## characinfan

Never had a tank bigger than 25g, but for two smaller tanks I've used Aquaclears in the past, and I dislike them. Their motors are noisy. In a 1-bdrm apt, it makes a big difference to quality of life. The only noise I hear from the Fluval 104 in my tank is the sound of water babbling like a creek. It's probably good for the feng shui in here. 

PS -- As for cleaning the Fluval's admittedly ridiculous corregated tubing, at least the mounting is easy to disassemble and has never leaked. A "snake" (long bendy metal rod with a brush on the end) plus warm water (in the bathtub) work wonders for removing built-up gunk. I have to clean the tubes only about 2 times a year.


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## Chris S

Well...my opinion?

There is no better filter it terms of quality and efficiency than the Eheim classic line.

I've used a RENA once, and had nothing but problems with it. I have a friend who uses a RENA too, and has some of the same problems I had with it (a lot of air leaking into the system, water leaking out due to crappy O-rings at the connections for example).



> One point has caught my attention through this discussion, and that is that the claim that Eheims don't need to be cleaned as often. Fact of the matter is that filters need to be cleaned at an interval that has nothing to do with brand. So, if the statement is true, than Eheims are clearly less efficient, other wise they would need to be cleaned as often as other brands if they were doing the same job. Leaving solid material in a filter is equivalent to leaving it in the tank, so long intervals between services is counter productive, to the purpose of filtering which is to keep the water clean, and low in toxic contaminants.


This is absolutely not true, regarding any canister filters. While canister filters do provide a degree of mechanical filtration (solid material removal), the main purpose is to provide biological filtration. In fact I would go so far as to say that solid material IN your canister filter would be providing nothing but benefit, by producing food for the bacteria colonies within the canister - essentially keeping your colonies healthy and working. If the bacteria is working, your filter is working.

To be honest, I clean out my eheims more out of curiousity than of necessity. You should see some of the neat things that start living in there =)


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## conix67

Chris S said:


> Well...my opinion?
> 
> There is no better filter it terms of quality and efficiency than the Eheim classic line.
> 
> I've used a RENA once, and had nothing but problems with it. I have a friend who uses a RENA too, and has some of the same problems I had with it (a lot of air leaking into the system, water leaking out due to crappy O-rings at the connections for example).
> 
> This is absolutely not true, regarding any canister filters. While canister filters do provide a degree of mechanical filtration (solid material removal), the main purpose is to provide biological filtration. In fact I would go so far as to say that solid material IN your canister filter would be providing nothing but benefit, by producing food for the bacteria colonies within the canister - essentially keeping your colonies healthy and working. If the bacteria is working, your filter is working.
> 
> To be honest, I clean out my eheims more out of curiousity than of necessity. You should see some of the neat things that start living in there =)


I must agree with this. Eheims don't require frequent cleaning. As a matter of fact, if it doesn't get clogged up to the point it affects water flow, it doesn't need to be cleaned.

Mechanical filteration capability is still excellent.

The only reason I still use AquaClear filters is that maintenance is easy. I could stuff it up with filter floss for water polishing (mechanical filteration), which will require relatively freqent replacement.


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## Cory_Dad

This is probably a dead thread but what the hey...

I did the 3rd ever cleaning of my < 1 year old Eheim 2213 on Sunday and when I screwed the 'quick connects' together and turned the power back on; I had a leak. <grumble> I disconnected it (after turning off the power), clean it really well, aligned it properly, screwed it together, turned on the power; the leak was worse. <more than a grumble> Dismantle, check o-ring, see it's not truly round, rotated it to get the round part facing out, plug and pray; still leaking. < $%^&*(%^&> Dismantle, glob of vasaline, plug and pray;.....verrryyy slow leak.

Ok. The point of my post. The cannister is less than a year old and it looks like the o-ring has failed. That should not happen. This sort of thing makes me question the Eheim product line.

Now, try finding a listing anywhere for the failed o-ring. I'm sure I can find a replacement at an auto parts store but that means shutting the filter off, and taking the o-ring with me to get a perfect match.

I am not a happy camper...


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## Darkblade48

I doubt the O-ring would fail after less than 1 year of service. If anything, I'd suspect that the O-ring was improperly seated after you cleaned your filter. The fact that the "big" leak was fixed after you changed the O-ring seating probably indicates that this is the case.

I would try looking at the O-ring again and try reseating it again, with vaseline/silicone lubricant.


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## Chris S

You can order the correct parts right from eheim by the way.

http://www.eheimparts.com/


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## conix67

O-rings don't wear out. I'd examine both sides very carefully, it could be that a tiny particle or something similar is sitting on one side causing the leak. Try cleaning them both in clean water. 

I have three 2213s and never had this leak problem.


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## Cory_Dad

Darkblade48 said:


> I doubt the O-ring would fail after less than 1 year of service. If anything, I'd suspect that the O-ring was improperly seated after you cleaned your filter. The fact that the "big" leak was fixed after you changed the O-ring seating probably indicates that this is the case.
> 
> I would try looking at the O-ring again and try reseating it again, with vaseline/silicone lubricant.


Hmm. I thought I did that the 2nd and 3rd times but I'll try again. I had completely wiped the area clean with a towel and then with a Q-tip.

As previously posted I had noticed that the o-ring wasn't perfectly round (in cross section); it was flattened on the outside. Not just in one area but ALL around the outside. That would indicate to me that the o-ring is not decompressing anymore. I'd expect that from a 7 year old o-ring where the rubber has lost it's elasticity.

When you say 'silicone' do you mean the Eheim silicone? That stuff is more expensive than gold.

I'll try again tonight and hope it doesn't make it worse. This morning there was just a little bit of water in the cup I placed under the leak so it seems to me sealing itself. In fact, if it's not dripping tonight I think I'll just leave it alone.

Thanks for the reply.

Cheers.


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## Cory_Dad

Chris S said:


> You can order the correct parts right from eheim by the way.
> 
> http://www.eheimparts.com/


Ya, I found that site last night but they're probably running IIS6 and with some wacco scripting or flash that my Linux Firefox 2.0.0.20 ignores so I can't navigate the site by clicking on the pictures. When the hell (sorry) will people learn to follow International standards?! And that from a company that's located in Germany, the home of SUSE.

I'll give it a try on another machine that's running FF 3.

Thanks.


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## Cory_Dad

conix67 said:


> O-rings don't wear out. I'd examine both sides very carefully, it could be that a tiny particle or something similar is sitting on one side causing the leak. Try cleaning them both in clean water.
> 
> I have three 2213s and never had this leak problem.


Thanks Conix.

If the leak hasn't stopped by tonight I'll try it again.

I will point out though (after having calmed down) I had a problem the the seals on my Rena XP4 where it was sucking air. The noise drove me nuts. After numerous attempts I finally stripped the whole thing down, brushed all seals with a tooth brush, whetted the seals and reassembled. Air leak gone. So this seal problem is present in everything.

The point of my post was to complain about a relatively new o-ring that appeared to have lost it's elasticity.

Sorry if I've turned this into a drama.

Thanks all for the advice.


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## Darkblade48

Cory_Dad said:


> When you say 'silicone' do you mean the Eheim silicone? That stuff is more expensive than gold.


I've only used the Eheim silicone, but I think any other brand would work. A little bit goes a long way, since you don't need a lot of it.


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## Cory_Dad

Chris S said:


> You can order the correct parts right from eheim by the way.
> 
> http://www.eheimparts.com/


Um, no you can't.

1) I can't browse the site at least I tried to using Firefox.

2) They ONLY service the continental U.S.


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## Chris S

Cory_Dad said:


> Ya, I found that site last night but they're probably running IIS6 and with some wacco scripting or flash that my Linux Firefox 2.0.0.20 ignores so I can't navigate the site by clicking on the pictures. When the hell (sorry) will people learn to follow International standards?! And that from a company that's located in Germany, the home of SUSE.
> 
> I'll give it a try on another machine that's running FF 3.
> 
> Thanks.


Just use IE and it works fine. I use firefox too, so it is a pain, but it still works.


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## Cory_Dad

Ok, I finally got to www.eheimparts.com after updating the flash player on the IE I have running under Linux. Are these people on drugs? They must be. Just look at the prices.

I found 2 other sites that sell Eheim parts:

http://www.aquariumguys.com/eheimparts.html

http://www.shop.trilbytropicals.com/category.sc?categoryId=12

It's not clear to me if any one of them sells the o-rings I'm looking for.

Anyway, the leak has stopped so I won't worry about it till next time. While doing my searching I came across quite a few people who have the same problem as myself.

Thanks everyone for your feedback and advice.

Cheers.


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## ameekplec.

Cory-dad, you can also order them from Petsandponds.com - you just have to drop them an email to find the part, as they don't list them on the site. Although if you don't buy more than $50 in parts, you're dinged $15 for handling.


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## Cory_Dad

ameekplec. said:


> Cory-dad, you can also order them from Petsandponds.com - you just have to drop them an email to find the part, as they don't list them on the site. Although if you don't buy more than $50 in parts, you're dinged $15 for handling.


Which ticks me off because just last Friday I received an order from them with over $250 worth of product.

Thanks ameekplec for the post. The dripping has stopped so for now I'm going to ignore it. But before the next cleaning I'm going to get the specs for that o-ring and see if any of the auto parts dealers can match it. The prices I've seen for these things on-line (assuming I was looking at the correct part) of $5 and up plus shipping for a stupid little o-ring is outrageous.


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