# Any precautions about purchasing used tanks from LFS's?



## AquaNeko

Just curious on this as they are used I think more most hobbyists and housing many fish.


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## AquariAM

AquaNeko said:


> Just curious on this as they are used I think more most hobbyists and housing many fish.


make sure the silicone isn't stained blue. Make sure to bleach the tanks you get used.


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## dl88dl

AquaNeko said:


> Just curious on this as they are used I think more most hobbyists and housing many fish.


I purchased 3 75gal from Scarborough BA before they moved to the current location and I use those 3 tanks without any issues and they are still in use.
All I did was clean it with water.


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## AquariAM

dl88dl said:


> I purchased 3 75gal from Scarborough BA before they moved to the current location and I use those 3 tanks without any issues and they are still in use.
> All I did was clean it with water.


Should always bleach IMO. Too many parasites can persist in a dry form. Bleach is easily removed without a trace with dechlorinator.


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## ameekplec.

Just curious AquariAM, but really how many parasites can you specifically name that can survive complete dessication that might be common to the hobby?

That, and cleaning everything with warm/hot water should be sufficient to remove anything that remains. You could use bleach or vinegar as a precaution (I use the latter to remove stains and deposits), but it's usually largely unnecessary.


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## AquariAM

ameekplec. said:


> Just curious AquariAM, but really how many parasites can you specifically name that can survive complete dessication that might be common to the hobby?


Zero for sure. Ich for probably.


I stand by my paranoia and the practices that result from it, though.


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## dl88dl

AquariAM said:


> Should always bleach IMO. Too many parasites can persist in a dry form. Bleach is easily removed without a trace with dechlorinator.


In my 41 years in this hobby I have not use bleach to clean my 30 tanks but I have use vinegar to clean. I use bleach to treat fin rot and save tons of money so far.


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## Aquatic Designs

You put bleach in your tanks to treat fin rot? How? please elaborate. I


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## dl88dl

Aquatic Designs said:


> You put bleach in your tanks to treat fin rot? How? please elaborate. I


Maybe I should have elaborated more...anyway, you use 1 drop per 10 gallon of water and do not over dose and take into consideration of any rocks, driftwood etc. but the use of a hospital tank is recommended. This treatment is very effective against fin rot that was caused by fungus and not by bacteria.


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## Aquatic Designs

Your also using chlorine bleach. Correct? And what would be an overdose? Why does it not work on bacterial fin rot? Gram +?


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## dl88dl

Aquatic Designs said:


> Your also using chlorine bleach. Correct? And what would be an overdose? Why does it not work on bacterial fin rot? Gram +?


Yes, good old chlorine bleach. I use a 10 gal hospital tank and filled to the top with the water from the old tank and add just one drop. This chemical is not strong enough to kill the gram + bacteria strain. If you need a second dose then wait 48 hours and add one more drop. Makesure your water quality is good and ammonia reading is at 0. If there are ammonia in the water and adding bleach you will get chloramine. Anyway, if it is a ture fungus infection it will go away in 2 to 3 days.


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## Aquatic Designs

What would be an over dose of bleach to a 10 gallon tank? Say it was bare. Just a sick guppy in it.


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## dl88dl

Aquatic Designs said:


> What would be an over dose of bleach to a 10 gallon tank? Say it was bare. Just a sick guppy in it.


Anything more then 1 drop...but remember this is not for beginners to try out but since you Jason been in this fishy business for awhile you should try it out.


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## Aquatic Designs

I rarely get fish with fin rot to try it. My fish suffer from bloat if anything. Got any homemade ideas for that?


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## dl88dl

Aquatic Designs said:


> I rarely get fish with fin rot to try it. My fish suffer from bloat if anything. Got any homemade ideas for that?


I wish I have a remedy for bloat. I quess you import mostly African cichlids and what is the % of them getting bloat?


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## AquariAM

dl88dl said:


> I wish I have a remedy for bloat. I quess you import mostly African cichlids and what is the % of them getting bloat?


Usually happens when they're improperly fed. It's not really an infection of anything AFAIK.. J?


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## AquaNeko

DL88,

Can you explain more in detail how the reaction or chemical change process is from ammonia & bleach and how it converts to chlormine?

Also when you say 'drop' of bleach what are you using for the dropper so we know the sizing? Are we talking like that tiny small Prime bottle that gives that amount of drop each time you treat the water?

Thanks in advance.


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## dl88dl

AquariAM said:


> Usually happens when they're improperly fed. It's not really an infection of anything AFAIK.. J?


Bloat is generally believed to be caused by a protozoal parasite complicated by bacterial infection. The most common cause of this disease is stress and the first sign of illness is not eating. Stress can be caused by such things as transport, netting, poor water quality, insufficient diet, over feeding, a lack of hiding places, an improper diet and adding too much salt to the water. Once a fish becomes afflicted with bloat it is often fatal but if it is treated right away then it is possible to cure a fish with bloat.


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## dl88dl

AquaNeko said:


> DL88,
> 
> Can you explain more in detail how the reaction or chemical change process is from ammonia & bleach and how it converts to chlormine?
> 
> Also when you say 'drop' of bleach what are you using for the dropper so we know the sizing? Are we talking like that tiny small Prime bottle that gives that amount of drop each time you treat the water?
> 
> Thanks in advance.


Hi AquaNeko, I am not a chemist but I did find this - Ammonia reacts rapidly and quantitatively with the hypochlorite ion, OCl−, to produce chloramine, NH2Cl. Hypochlorite compound is chlorine in oxidation state. Hypochlorites are the salts of hypochlorous acid. Common examples include sodium hypochlorite (chlorine bleach or bleaching agent). 
The drop from the Prime bottle will do but remember that the bleach in the water will dissipate in about 24 to 36 hours so the second dose should be 48 hours just to be on the safe side. The fungus fin rot should be gone in 3 days after the second treatment but if not then you have a bacterial infection and need to be treated with antibiotic.


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## Aquatic Designs

Ya! What he said. LOL

Yes my troph's get bloat. I have only had maybe 3 or 4 times that i have had a bad case of it a few times only a fish or 2. Most times in my cases it's been thinking it would not happen to me and being ignorant. And being a little too overly cautious. Water quality has got to be the number one trigger IME. I think when it's been only a fish or 2 it's been stress. Maybe not as many hiding places or dominate fish is a prick. 

I think if you keep the water quality good you should have very little trouble with any fish.

Oh ya. If you went by the every day recomendation of feeding tropheus. I improperly feed them every day. But they get weekly 50% water changes. Sometimes 2 if i have the time.


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## dl88dl

Aquatic Designs said:


> Ya! What he said. LOL
> 
> Yes my troph's get bloat. I have only had maybe 3 or 4 times that i have had a bad case of it a few times only a fish or 2. Most times in my cases it's been thinking it would not happen to me and being ignorant. And being a little too overly cautious. Water quality has got to be the number one trigger IME. I think when it's been only a fish or 2 it's been stress. Maybe not as many hiding places or dominate fish is a prick.
> 
> I think if you keep the water quality good you should have very little trouble with any fish.
> 
> Oh ya. If you went by the every day recomendation of feeding tropheus. I improperly feed them every day. But they get weekly 50% water changes. Sometimes 2 if i have the time.


That is not bad since the amount of fish you import. You see when you have been in this hobby for a long time then you realized that you are not really taken care of those fishy but you are a master in taken care of the water quality since the water will take care the fishy for you...LOL
BTW, I have kept many many different fishy before and I still think the fancy goldfish is one of the hardest fish to keep...I meant those very high quality huge Ranchu, Loinhead and Oranda.


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## Aquatic Designs

I would agree that fancy goldfish are hard. In fact most goldfish except single tailed. If it's not one thing it's another with goldfish. Out of all the fish I keep my daughters goldfish tank takes the most work to maintain and I have had to treat it maybe 3 times with different meds. While my whole fish room may have had been medicated twice. 

You take care of the water the fish will be healthy. 

And BTW, I haven't been importing in 2 years. I don't run a LFS anymore either. I'm just a hobbyist.


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## dl88dl

Aquatic Designs said:


> I would agree that fancy goldfish are hard. In fact most goldfish except single tailed. If it's not one thing it's another with goldfish. Out of all the fish I keep my daughters goldfish tank takes the most work to maintain and I have had to treat it maybe 3 times with different meds. While my whole fish room may have had been medicated twice.
> 
> You take care of the water the fish will be healthy.
> 
> And BTW, I haven't been importing in 2 years. I don't run a LFS anymore either. I'm just a hobbyist.


You are the first to agree with me on the goldfish...most people just laugh at me when they ask me which fish is the hardest to keep.

So you are one of us now...a hobbyist.


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## Aquatic Designs

Buddy.....anyone who laughs and says that fancy goldfish are easy has no clue. When i was at Superpet. The goldfish section took as much or more work then the rest of the fishroom. And still had the highest loses. Took the most meds and are the only fish that can one day need one med the next day another. And those 2 meds counteract the other. So you have to carbon the crap out of the tank before you treat. And then both those meds have just about killed the fish. And it now needs 4-6 weeks to recover fully. And that is if it does. Half the time you end up destroying the swim bladder to treat the illness to save the fish. And now you have a fish that swims upside down most the time. If it's an oranda you probably burnt the fatty head and it will need a year to grow back. 

Goldfish are not easy......except. Once you have them in good condition. All you need to do is feed them well and keep the water clean. 

And don't mix single tail and fancy. IME bad bad bad thing to do. The fancy fish starve. The single tails eat the fatty heads of the orandas and pop the bubbles of bubble eyes.


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## AquaNeko

dl88dl said:


> Hi AquaNeko, I am not a chemist but I did find this - Ammonia reacts rapidly and quantitatively with the hypochlorite ion, OCl−, to produce chloramine, NH2Cl. Hypochlorite compound is chlorine in oxidation state. Hypochlorites are the salts of hypochlorous acid. Common examples include sodium hypochlorite (chlorine bleach or bleaching agent).
> The drop from the Prime bottle will do but remember that the bleach in the water will dissipate in about 24 to 36 hours so the second dose should be 48 hours just to be on the safe side. The fungus fin rot should be gone in 3 days after the second treatment but if not then you have a bacterial infection and need to be treated with antibiotic.


24-36hrs if you use air stones in combination with the filter or just the filter running alone? Should water level be lower then the filter so some light bubbles are forced into the tank or can you fill the water up so you have less noise fromt he falling water?


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## AquaNeko

Aquatic Designs said:


> And don't mix single tail and fancy. IME bad bad bad thing to do. The fancy fish starve. The single tails eat the fatty heads of the orandas and pop the bubbles of bubble eyes.


 ;; I take it single tails are the feeders and comets right?


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## Aquatic Designs

Shubunkins, comets, feeders, sarasa, pond fish(garden centers) they are sold by many names. I am referring to the long body form. There are still single tail of the fancy type. My bad. They are referred to both ways. Depending on the fish.

But yes in short.

And especially Koi.Never never never keep fancy (short body, double tail) goldfish with Koi. or your just throwing your money away.


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## dl88dl

AquaNeko said:


> 24-36hrs if you use air stones in combination with the filter or just the filter running alone? Should water level be lower then the filter so some light bubbles are forced into the tank or can you fill the water up so you have less noise fromt he falling water?


I normally use a hospital tank and use a mature sponge filter. Remember the 1 drop of bleach will kill some of the nitrifying bacteria but it should be ok. Using a air stone and a HOB will be ok too. You should have at least 1" below the glass lids. I always keep bunch of hyro and AC500 sponges in my sump just in case I need to start a new tank.


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## dl88dl

Aquatic Designs said:


> Shubunkins, comets, feeders, sarasa, pond fish(garden centers) they are sold by many names. I am referring to the long body form. There are still single tail of the fancy type. My bad. They are referred to both ways. Depending on the fish.
> 
> But yes in short.
> 
> And especially Koi.Never never never keep fancy (short body, double tail) goldfish with Koi. or your just throwing your money away.


I totally agree with you on all your comments on goldfish. I finally found someone who knows goldfish...it took me a long time to learn and it was 41 years ago that I start keeping goldfish and today I still love my goldfish but the high quality ones are very expensive and those are the only ones like


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## Aquatic Designs

My friend was just in China. He sent me pictures of goldfish the size of footballs. I wanted some. The prices were $50-100 CND. But the fish were half way across the world. You get maybe 2 or 3 per box at 200USD to ship. plus broker, duty, taxes, this guy, that guy, turns into 200-300 each fish. But WOW impressive. The Chinese and Japanese can really make a nice looking fish. What we have in stores today is so drab and ugly.


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## dl88dl

I was in Hong Kong, China and Japan back in Oct 2009 for 5 weeks but did not get a chance to see any goldfish farms but we will be going back in the end of April of this year and hopefully we have some time and visit a farm or 2. I have seen some very large and high quality ones in HK but the shipping will cost more then the fish.
BTW, I saw your post on PN but the wife will kill me if I order some.


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## KevD

All good reasons to spend the extra cash on a new aquarium


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## dl88dl

KevD said:


> All good reasons to spend the extra cash on a new aquarium


New tank is not a problem...just cut back from 30 tanks to 23 tanks and I got about 25 tanks sitting in my garage. I am actually over stock with fishy right now


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## dl88dl

Aquatic Designs said:


> My friend was just in China. He sent me pictures of goldfish the size of footballs. I wanted some. The prices were $50-100 CND. But the fish were half way across the world. You get maybe 2 or 3 per box at 200USD to ship. plus broker, duty, taxes, this guy, that guy, turns into 200-300 each fish. But WOW impressive. The Chinese and Japanese can really make a nice looking fish. What we have in stores today is so drab and ugly.


You know $200 to $300 is cheap compare to about 20 years ago when these fishy would sell for $500 to $600CDN and some as high as $1500 to $3000CDN.
I have noticed that the price of all fancy goldfish has gone down alot.
But 26 years ago I got a 3" Zebra pleco L-46 for $29.99 at Scarborough BA


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## Aquatic Designs

dl88dl said:


> But 26 years ago I got a 3" Zebra pleco L-46 for $29.99 at Scarborough BA


You over paid.


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## dl88dl

Aquatic Designs said:


> You over paid.


It's a rookie mistake LOL...the reason I spent that much was because they were around $800+ around 36 years ago when they were first introdruce into the fishy hobby.


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## Aquatic Designs

I bought my first red oscars back in the early 80's. Saved my allowance for months. Paid like $30 per around an inch or so. Which was a good price back then. It's funny how times change.


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## dl88dl

Aquatic Designs said:


> I bought my first red oscars back in the early 80's. Saved my allowance for months. Paid like $30 per around an inch or so. Which was a good price back then. It's funny how times change.


My very first lfs was Wong's Aquarium back around 38 years ago and they were the only one that carry half decent fancy goldfish in GTA. For example a 7" to 8" Oranda including the tail goes for $200 to $300 and now you can pickup one around $50 and the quality of goldfish has also improve so much now. Did you know that Wong's Aquarium was first operated in a house by two brothers name Sam and Tony at the same location today. This house was getting old and falling apart So they knock it down and build this new place where they rent the first floor out and they occupied the basement and now Tony's wife runs the store during the day time.


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## Aquatic Designs

You find the quality of goldfish better now then 15 years or so ago?

I find that we don't get the really nice stuff anymore.


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## dl88dl

Aquatic Designs said:


> You find the quality of goldfish better now then 15 years or so ago?
> 
> I find that we don't get the really nice stuff anymore.


Definitely...15 years ago they were bring in longer and thinner body shape and the hood is so so and now the breeder from oversea are making them with deeper and thicker body types and some of the hood are huge and the price is much lower too.


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## AquaNeko

AquariAM said:


> make sure the silicone isn't stained blue. Make sure to bleach the tanks you get used.


Been a while since I checked this thread out. Can someone explain why not to get one if the silicone is stained blue? What causes the silicone to go blue?


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## BillD

If the silicone is stained blue, it means the tank has been treated with methylene blue or malachite green. Regardless, it is not a reason not to buy the tank. Bleach will remove the staining. You have to also assume that any used tank from an LFS has had treatment of some sort at some time. Again, a good bleaching takes care of a myriad of problems.


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