# Starting out



## mamadoo (Aug 27, 2008)

I have a 20g tank and want to know a) what are the smallest cichlids, b) I have 1 piece of driftwood and 1 rock with holes p ), what else should I put in? c) should I put any live plants?
Any other advice would be great,
Thanks


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

Do you want to keep SA/CA cichlids or African cichlids?


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## mamadoo (Aug 27, 2008)

*well*

I have no experience with cichlids so am open to suggestion. There are so many types that I think it would be easier to take suggestions from people that know.
Here's what I know I'd like....colour and dwarfs. Any suggestions? And if they will do okay in a semi planted tank?
Thank you


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## Calmer (Mar 9, 2008)

You have 2 posts going and it will become a tad confusing after a while if we don't sort everything logically. So you want either South American (SA) or Central American (CA) dwarf cichlid that will not excessively dig up or eat plants? African cichlids tanks have harder water (~ph8) and few plants can survive happily there. After you decide on the fish you want you can get going on the plants as the plants will help with New Tank Syndrome (NTS). After the tank is setup and the plants are growing in the substrate then it will be time to add the fish. This is the best time line as far as I know. 
I am thinking Microgeophagus
http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=microgeophagus&btnG=Search&meta=
or Apistogramma
http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=Apistogramma&btnG=Google+Search&meta=
With that being said, there are others on here that are more experienced than I that should chime in soon.


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

If you like Dwarfs, to begin I would recommend trying out either Bolivian Rams (Mikrogeophagus altispinosus) or Blue Rams (Mikrogeophagus ramirezi). Both are SA cichlids and will love a planted tank.

Google both of them for some images and information. I find the Blue rams a little more entertaining personally.

I would recommend a maximum of a pair of either type for your 20g tank. You could likely add in a few smaller fish, like tetra's to spice it up.


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

A clarification here would probably be good here too: cichilds also include angels and discus. Are your aims just to keep them or to breed them? 
I would stay away from the discus and apistos for now as they are harder to keep due to demands on water quality. 

That being said, if you're looking to keep africans, then we'll have to wait for others to chime in, but I believe at 20gs, you're probably looking to keep Malawi shelldwellers, as they are small cichilds.


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## mamadoo (Aug 27, 2008)

I will look into those as well, thanks.
Not angels or discus.
And just to keep them, not breeding.
Thanks


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## Windowlicka (Mar 5, 2008)

ameekplec. said:


> A clarification here would probably be good here too: cichilds also include angels and discus. Are your aims just to keep them or to breed them?
> I would stay away from the discus and apistos for now as they are harder to keep due to demands on water quality.
> 
> That being said, if you're looking to keep africans, then we'll have to wait for others to chime in, but I believe at 20gs, you're probably looking to keep Malawi shelldwellers, as they are small cichilds.


Agreed - African shelldwellers (or "shellies") from Lake Tanganyika are a lot of fun, tend to stay smaller, and are very active little fish. I personally have a pair of Neolamprologus Multifasciatus in a 20G Long, along with 4 Xenotilapia & a BN plec (plus a few Cryptocoryne plants too for 'proper, pukka' greenery).

As their nickname implies, Shelldwellers require a good number of shells to thrive/breed, and tend to occupy the lower quadrants of the water column. a pair of the smaller Paracyprochromis (for example) or Xeno's would make great tank-mates, utilising the mid-higher levels of the water column... Use Google to check for images/research info...

Shellies prefer a sand substrate over gravel - they like to <ahem> "re-arrange" their surroundings, frequently & feverishly... the smaller particle size of sand allows them to do so, and it's easy to push back during WC's.

Word of caution - If you go the African Cichlid route, then you would be best advised not to put driftwood into your tank - the tannins released will lower your pH, and wood also has a tendency to soften water - both effects contradict the water requirements for successfully keeping African Cichlids (but ironically are preferred by South American Cichlids). Keep the driftwood for your next(!) SA tank, and put more rocks into your African tank instead...!


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Thanks Windowlicka. Malawi shell dweller....shows you how much I know about african cichlids


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## Windowlicka (Mar 5, 2008)

ameekplec. said:


> Thanks Windowlicka. Malawi shell dweller....shows you how much I know about african cichlids


Hehe! No biggie - you're in the right yard, but wrong puddle!


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## Calmer (Mar 9, 2008)

Another consideration could be a pair of _ Kribensis.
http://aqualandpetsplus.com/Cichlid, Kribensis.htm
http://badmanstropicalfish.com/profiles/profile19.html
_


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Kribs would be good choice, but they will be a bit on the larger side for a 20g. Very nice cichlid, and suitable for a beginner too. And best of all, they're usually fairly cheap from any store.


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## mamadoo (Aug 27, 2008)

I can't wait to get this tank going!! Though it's on hold because...........I might be getting a bigger tank this weekend! woohoo!!
Is it normal to be excited over trying to choose fish?


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## planter (Jun 9, 2008)

LOL yes it's normal. that's why some of us have many tanks running. Sounds like your going to fit right in here.


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## mamadoo (Aug 27, 2008)

I've been driving my husband nuts telling him my plans for this tank (even though I'm not sure what tank it will be!). I keep redesigning it in my head, planning the plants and the fish. I'm getting REALLY impatient. 
Little background....all my fish were killed while treating for camallanus, so I'm starting fresh. It's been 3 days and I already miss having fish.


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## Calmer (Mar 9, 2008)

mamadoo said:


> I can't wait to get this tank going!! Though it's on hold because...........I might be getting a bigger tank this weekend! woohoo!!
> Is it normal to be excited over trying to choose fish?


Lmao  Maybe take a video of your new fish dance and post it. J/k
Even after years of being into aquariums people find it is still as exciting as the first time. Except rather than using the words "getting new fish" you use the words "acquiring new fish". That's all 


> I've been driving my husband nuts telling him my plans for this tank (even though I'm not sure what tank it will be!). I keep redesigning it in my head, planning the plants and the fish. I'm getting REALLY impatient.


Keep it up he will come around eventually 


> Little background....all my fish were killed while treating for camallanus, so I'm starting fresh. It's been 3 days and I already miss having fish.


Sorry to hear about your losses. Did you nuke the tank, equipment, nets ... with chlorine? Nasty stuff.
http://www.petfish.net/kb/entry/154/


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## mamadoo (Aug 27, 2008)

Yep, cleaned everything. Nasty little buggers. I treated with Levamisole HCI. Within 2 hours my neon tetras were acting funny, then they ended up paralyzed. Next day everything else died. Had the tetras for over a year.  
Fingers crossed that I get new tank/filter etc. and will acquire all new fish and plants! (plants/fish new for sure!)


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## Calmer (Mar 9, 2008)

It's too bad about the tetras. I asked about the tank/equipment nuking because I wanted to make sure it wouldn't happen again. It's terrible when the cure takes the patient.


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## mamadoo (Aug 27, 2008)

I was quite disappointed, everything I read said it was safe for fish. I know I didn't OD. But the parasite is gone so I'm happy.


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

I consider anything with a label other than Seachem Prime to be toxic to my tanks.


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

You must have either OD or added something other than pure Levamisole, as I have treated my tanks accidentally with 10 times the recommended dosage and everything was fine, including medication sensitive plecos.


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## mamadoo (Aug 27, 2008)

I don't know, it was from a highly recommended source (several fish sites). My pleco lasted and he was the only one that I really didn't want to die. Maybe it was really concentrated? Who knows, the little buggers (parasites) are dead (there were so many it was gross) and now I get to start again.....as soon as I get a tank


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## Cory (May 2, 2008)

There are quite a few options for cichlids in a 20gal.

I keep Julidochromis Marileri Gombe in a few of my tanks:
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1537

They're a lovely fish that isn't terribly active and so does not require much swimming room. They stay fairly small and don't really get aggressive towards one another unless a pair forms and they start to breed. They pretty much ignore other fish even when they are breeding. I can't say anything about other Julidochromis species as I've never kept them but quite a few remain a similar size and have similar temperments to the best of my knowledge. I just think the M. Gombe are the nicest looking .

Keyhole cichlids would make another good inhabitant, or checkerboard cichlids. They stay small and dont usually bug other species of fish. Nicaraguenesis are another similar fish to consider.

I also have Jellybean parrots which are a convict/parrot hybrid. They stay really small and are a nice pink colour for males with blue in the fins or pink with orange and blue for females. They are a bit more aggressive though so my breeding pair has their 20 gal all to themselves.

Shellies have already been mentioned.

A few calvus would probably be alright, but I wouldn't reccomend them if you're newer to fish keeping. I'd stay away from rams as well if you're new since they're given to bloat and can be finicky eaters.

Redbreast Acara are not a bad option for something with a bit of colour variety that will stay small. Also a fairly undemanding fish.

Callochromis pleurospilus or Red Flame cichlids are a bit bigger but would probably do well also.

There are so many more, but a lot would be pretty difficult to find. Good luck with your search and let us know what you decide.


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