# CRS for normal people?



## Playing God (Dec 13, 2012)

Good day,

Shrimp are the bomb! Luv 'em!
BUT...
I'm not interested in breeding a colony or even a baby or two, I just want about 6 or so CRS to hang out on me taiwan moss carpet and pick away at invisible food with their shrimpy little fingers looking like miniature alien invaders.

So, against most popular thought, I'm planning on putting some adult CRS in my planted community tank for the following reasons:

1) There's just no better looking bottom feeder than a grade A CRS (I don't buy into the whole "more white is better," I just love the banding).
2) I want to show off to visitors what the hobby offers so lower grade CRS are a great compromise between incredible beauty and some level of hardiness IMO.
3) I've got lots of hiding places- rock crevices, a moss carpet about 1 square foot so far, etc.
4) I have low expectations. I'm not looking to breed these things just want a few to peek their heads out of the cave at night time.
5) My tank naturally sits at the parameters that work for CRS- room temp. ph-7.4ish, etc. 

The only concern for me is a beautiful dwarf gourami but It's hard for it to swim through the tangle mess of plants in the corner so I'm not too worried about shrimp getting caught...

Also, I have an assassin snail. I've heard rumors, but can't confirm whether mine was eating CRS that was already dead/dying or if he was actually stinging them and proactively hunting!?

What should I know, how should I proceed? I started off with nothing but an Oto cat and some CRS, but due to Hamilton water and my own ignorance, ammonia poisoning got the CRS so I want to make sure parameters are right before chalking up any more negligent homicide on my criminal record.

I'm fully prepared to chuck the assassin snail if I find out he prefers shrimp to my MTS colony...but i figure unlike my previous batch, HEALTHY shrimp will have no trouble staying out of it's way.

Please let me know your thoughts.


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

There's nothing wrong with your plan/intention and you have a pretty good change to keep the adult CRS alive, they might even breed for you but chances for babies to survive in PH7.4 is very low.

Two things I want to point, one is that if you have a 1'x1' carpet it' probably not a nano tank. I think 6 CRS in even a 20G planted tank are pretty much invisible, especially when the presence of fish. The second is, CRS live for 1.5 yrs or so, without breeding, they will be gone very quickly especially if you start with adults.


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## Playing God (Dec 13, 2012)

I have a 30 gal tall. I recognize the shrimp will usually be hidden but the idea that they're in there is fun for me, I heard if they have enough hiding spots they do venture out as well, which would be ideal. I'll probably start with 6 and maybe move up from there. I don't want a heavy bio-load though.. I just can't get over how amazing they'll look against the dark green of the taiwan moss.


I hadn't thought of the lifespan issue though! Thanks. I don't mind shrimp dying from old age so that's a secondary concern for now.


Is there a certain reason babies don't survive in higher pH? I always assumed shrimp, like snails, preferred a more basic pH to help with shell production. Any scientists care to explain how basic water affects babies more than adults?


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## chinamon (Jun 16, 2012)

my CRS tank is a 30gal breeder. it is not heavily planted with only five rocks and some pygmy chain sword and dwarf hairgrass. when i started the tank i purchased 50 CRS. they were juveniles and the tank still looked empty. you might want to get a few more than 6 to have any impact at all.


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

Yeah, my PFR tank is 20GL, with 200+ shrimps in it, it still looks half empty lol Ecept the feeding time. 

As to why CRS don't breed well in basic PH. I believe the original bee shrimps live/breed well in water ~7.0 - 7.2, but since CRS has been so heavily selectively bred from the original wild form, it's too weak to deal with some "unknown" properties in basic water. Most people believe it's because of NH3 (super toxic in basic water), but I tend to think it's lacking of certain enzyme that leads to their inability to thrive in basic water. Otherwise, most crustacean would prefer basic water because acidic water isn't good for their "shell" that consists on mainly calcium (dissolves in acidic water). You can keep young adults or adults in 7.4, they actually look better in basic water as their shell forms better, side effect maybe that they can't molt as easily. (same as in higher GH).

All this said, there are people claiming successful breeding, and in Europe, people use higher GH water to breed CRS because acidic water is hard to come by there (liquid rock from facet). 

A 30G with 6 (or even 30) CRS is fine, and don't feel bad if they don't breed or babies don't survive, a lot of us can't breed them successfully in acidic water either ;-)


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## Egonsgirl (Feb 28, 2012)

I am one of those people who have been breeding low-grade crs in regular tap water. They are in a 10g tank with my cherries. I wouldn't say that I have alot of babies, but I do have a 3rd generation of them already. I do not use RO water or have AI leaves in there. Just plants- floating and in small containers, bare bottom tank, and driftwood. Also in my basement without a heater. I have a few cories in with them.... which could result in fewer baby survivals.??? I don't know how the higher grade crs would be. I will find out shortly, as I am going to add some mosura crs into the equation, that have already been acclimated to tap water. Cross my fingers!


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

Egonsgirl, that's very nice to hear, mind sharing your experience? Should definitely help PG.


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## Playing God (Dec 13, 2012)

You're the type of hobbyist I like to buy from. As someone who's "climatized" himself to some pretty crazy lifestyles over the years I tend to think fish can do the same, and love buying from friends who have success in those areas. 
If I buy CRS that can thrive in tap water, my tank is a day at the Ritz for them! 

By low grade CRS are you referring to B and C or would that include grade A shrimp (just so I know for future discussions...)?


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## Egonsgirl (Feb 28, 2012)

I am not sure how to grade the crs properly. If I had to guess, I would say these crs are A - S grade, some look to have tiger tooth markings. If you check my thread, (Identify this shrimp?) about the cherry with the unusual markings, which Anna believes is a Malayan/Rainbow shrimp, you will see another picture of my 10g tapwater tank with these crs and cherries together (babies, not the best pict. sorry). I will try to post more pictures - having difficulty catching them standing still. I couldn't tell you how I managed to succeed in this manner. I got this tank set up around the time of DRAS auction (Apr.?) I had bought a piece of driftwood with Java moss, and put it in there. Then discovered the hitch-hiker (Malayan shrimp). A bit later I picked up some cherries, and in late may, I picked up the crs that I have. These were already acclimatized to 7.2 ph, so I guess someone else can take the credit for that. I had them in a small container for about a week and slowly added and inch of my water, here and there and then put them in with the cherries. They are in a bare bottom tank with some pots of plants (in eco-complete) lots of duckweed and other plants unplanted - just hanging about. I don't recall ever doing a water change in there, just topping it up when it gets down a couple inches. I guess if I fussed a little more with things in there, I may have more babies growing out, but I have them more for my enjoyment, than to sell them. Sooo, ya, I guess it would be like the Ritz for them. lol


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## bettaforu (Sep 6, 2009)

I raised my high grade SSS+ mosura's in tap water in Burlington...7.6

I know people will argue that it can't be done, but it can, and my theory is that any shrimp born in this PH range 7-7.6 can live/adapt/breed in the same range.

If they like their environment they will breed. My shrimps in this tank are 
3rd generation now and I have new babies, juvies (snow whites) and baby mosura's all living quite happily.

I don't follow the standard thinking of making lots of water changes, adding this and that and overall disturbing the natural balance of a tank, worrying about TDS/PH/GH/KH etc etc. 

If you don't have an ammonia spike and your shrimps are berried and happy and you have enough biofilm for babies to eat (ie algae on glass, rocks, sponge filter etc) then why on earth would you keep wanting to make it better for them/or you by constantly changing out water that's not bad, and fiddling around with things which only stress the shrimps out. 

How would you like someone to come into your bedroom when you're just dropping off to sleep and want to remake the bed? I know that sound stupid but its basically the same thing....leave well enough alone and your shrimps will thank you by making more generations of happy little campers.


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## Egonsgirl (Feb 28, 2012)

I forgot to mention that my 10g CRS/Chery tank is in my basement without a heater - temp about 68-70F. I suppose if it was warmer, I might have more babies, but my females are constantly berried. I just noticed some itsy bitsy's roaming around on my chollo wood. Good thing they don't have cheeks, I would want to pinch them - they are sooo cute. I also noticed a smaller (not quite adult) crs, that looks like a Hinomaru. I have a sponge filter and a small HOB running on it. Now thanks to Anna, This weekend, I added some High classed ladies in the tank too, - Mosura crowns. Whoooo hooo! Thanks Anna


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## Playing God (Dec 13, 2012)

WOW! Before I joined this forum, I only ever read threads by people who moniter PH constantly, only use R/O water, do 50% water changes ever couple days, special gravel, all kinds of additives for their plants, moniter temperature, constantly tweaking everything and I started feeling a little guilty knowing that that's never going to be me. 
Thank goodness I found some successes like you two! My tap water comes out reading 0.5 ppm ammonia, so I'd rather not do any water changes.

I look forward to adding CRS to my beautiful tank!
The only regret I have is that 1/3 of my tank that's not moss is red/white/brown gravel so it's not the best backdrop for CRS, but maybe it will help them feel hidden....


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## bettaforu (Sep 6, 2009)

don't worry about the esthetics of your tank...the shrimps themselves will add the color and beauty to it. Go for it! 

Join the Shrimpaholics club and keep these little endearing creatures, you won't be sorry....(hmmnnn well maybe your pocketbook might )


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## getochkn (Jul 10, 2011)

You do use active soil though don't you Anna like Netlea or ADA in your tanks don't you? If so, you are lowering the pH/gH/kH with the soil, so they're not really in pure tap water.


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## Playing God (Dec 13, 2012)

bettaforu said:


> I raised my high grade SSS+ mosura's in tap water in Burlington...7.6
> 
> I know people will argue that it can't be done, but it can, and my theory is that any shrimp born in this PH range 7-7.6 can live/adapt/breed in the same range.
> 
> ...


Do you ever sell grade A shrimp? If so, let me know. I work out of Burlington and would love to grab some off you! (not a big fan of anything higher or lower than A- I like clear striping). 
You could advertise "extra hardy CRS" haha.


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