# What's going on here? Anyone know what this is?



## sooley19 (Jan 7, 2009)

Does anyone know what this is and what would cause this?
It's the red stuff on the gravel


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## Car2n (Jun 7, 2011)

Cyano bacteria


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## TorontoPlantMan (Aug 16, 2013)

Could be due to improper lighting or nutrients, definitely cyanobacteria though.


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## sooley19 (Jan 7, 2009)

How do I get rid of it and how does it even start to show up in a tank? Like what causes it?


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## fesso clown (Nov 15, 2011)

Looks like cyano. Excess nutrients can cause it. Are you carbon dosing? Vodka? Bio-Pellets? Sometime those can cause it too. 
You can simply vacuum it out. Nothing to worry about too much... It is slimy right? I see a lot of coralline in that picture too....


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## sooley19 (Jan 7, 2009)

Yeah I have a ton of coraline in my tank.. I get more and more as each day goes by.. I'm using bio pellets.. The cyano is just an eye sore and I don't like the looks of it at all.. I just want to get rid of it as soon as I can.. I'm getting it on the spout of my HOB refugium as well.. It seems to be even worse there than on the bed of my tank


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

fesso clown said:


> Nothing to worry about too much... .




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## notclear (Nov 5, 2011)

If you don't mind to put chemicals in the tank, for longer term use try the combination of Zeovit Coral Snow and Zeobak. By the way JLAquatics has 25% off on Zeovit products right now! For quick fix, try the red slime remover.

For a permanent fix, keep your water parameters in check.


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## WiseGuyPhil (Jun 15, 2011)

I think what Jeff means is... Cyano has a cycle. If you leave it for a bit the access will be consumed and eventually it will go away.



sig said:


>


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## sooley19 (Jan 7, 2009)

I have some red slime remover already so maybe I will have to do that.. Is it easier to remove it or just to leave it and let it go away on its own? I know with the red slime remover you are supposed to do a pretty big water change after the 24 hour period correct?


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## immafool (Oct 7, 2011)

OP.

try upping the amount of flow in your tank... i've found in the past that i get unsightly red algae growing in "dead" spots in my tank.

HTH


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## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

Definitely cyanobacteria (cyano) and usually rears it's ugly head when there is an excess (imbalance) of nutrient and/or lighting; spectral shift from aging bulbs/increase intensity from new bulbs, assuming flow is not a factor.

IMHO/E, Red Slime Remover (RSR) does work very well but poses another aspect in "aftercare". Reducing photoperiod from 25-50% of original and slowly increase over a period of 1-2weeks. Water changes are imperative afterwards but so is adequate aeration. RSL will cause the skimmer to overskim and increase biological and chemical oxygen demand (BOD/COD) Using carbon will help in removing residual RSR and "cyano die-off".

My personal and "professional" approach is to first reduce the photo period. After turning off the pumps, physically remove patches of cyano in a slow manner as to minimize little bits flying off somewhere to "recolonize". You can either siphon it out with an appropriate sized tubing so that it doesn't clog or submerge a container and carefully move the larger substrate pieces/LR rubble into it for easy removal. Wash in hot water and replace.

From both methods, then it's just ramping up the photo period to original and monitoring cyano growth. Remove cyano and go back to previous photoperiod before the increase.

IME on client systems, the latter method takes a bit longer to "eliminate" but if everything has been consistent (no major changes) it rarely comes back as "bad". RSR I have to redose every 2-6 months and it does come back with a vengance.

Either way, there is work and monitoring involved .


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## Kooka (Feb 8, 2011)

immafool said:


> OP.
> 
> try upping the amount of flow in your tank... i've found in the past that i get unsightly red algae growing in "dead" spots in my tank.
> 
> HTH


+1, not enough flow.


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## wildexpressions (May 3, 2010)

wtac said:


> Definitely cyanobacteria (cyano) and usually rears it's ugly head when there is an excess (imbalance) of nutrient and/or lighting; spectral shift from aging bulbs/increase intensity from new bulbs, assuming flow is not a factor.
> 
> IMHO/E, Red Slime Remover (RSR) does work very well but poses another aspect in "aftercare". Reducing photoperiod from 25-50% of original and slowly increase over a period of 1-2weeks. Water changes are imperative afterwards but so is adequate aeration. RSL will cause the skimmer to overskim and increase biological and chemical oxygen demand (BOD/COD) Using carbon will help in removing residual RSR and "cyano die-off".
> 
> ...


spot on IME


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## sooley19 (Jan 7, 2009)

well i just did a water change and i siphoned all the areas that were noticable.. i do have alot of coraline algae in my tank and i was starting to think thats what it was but its not.. i do not want to dose my tank with anything.. im gonna try turning the photo period back a bit and keep my eye on the situation.. is there a specific amount of time the lights should be on for? im running a 6 bulb fixture with 3 actinics, 2 daytimes which i believe are 10k and one pink.. i got the fixture new about 4 months ago.. maybe the bulbs aren't good i have been looking into getting the ATI Plus and exchanging all the bulbs in it now.. i seen at SUM they have some other brand of bulbs that are the same as the ATI ones.. anyone ever use them before? what would be a good mixture of bulbs and any specific order i should put them in? i have the 3 actinics on one timer and the other 3 on a different timer.. they all come on and go off at the same time.. any help would be awesome.. and you guys are great at the feedback for questions

Cheers
Jeff


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## fesso clown (Nov 15, 2011)

The bulbs at SUM are Giesemann. They are on Par if not better then ATI. Depends who you ask... When I had T5HO I used Giessmann. 
If you are using the bulbs that came with your fixture it is a good idea to change them out. The spectrum can shift in a shorter period of time (4 months) and that could be a strong contributing factor to your cyano. 
Directing flow the the area where it is growing is also a great idea. 
Watch your nutrients too.


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## sooley19 (Jan 7, 2009)

what do you mean by watch my nutrients.. i have seen people say it in other posts but i don't understand what you guys mean by it.. Those are the brands i was talking about.. i haven't seen them anywhere else and i couldn't remember the name of it.. i think you are right i should change the bulbs out to better ones.. is there a specific order i should put them to like should i stagger the different bulbs at all to help out? and what is the lighting schedule it should be at for time on and off? right now they come on a 10AM and turn off at 9PM than the blue leds go on from 9 till 7 in the morning


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## fesso clown (Nov 15, 2011)

Here's the RC maga thread on T5HO lighting recommendations. If you are a member there, post your tank specs and "The Grim Reefer" will help you out. 
Or just skim until you find something close to what you are looking for. 
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2096816&page=66


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## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

Nitrate (NO3) and phosphate (PO4) are pretty much a baseline that one can easily test/monitor that translates to a general notion of a nutrient load "leftover". 

Think of an aquarium in this manner...it's a toilet that partially flushes on a weekly/bi-weekly/monthly basis. Food introduced for fish and coral I would label as a complex nutrient. Nothing useful for unsightly/problematic organism, ie. cyano, hair algae, etc...yet.

What the fish, coral, etc, poop out, makes it into a more "simple" nutrient form that we all call waste. This simple nutrient is easier for bacteria and such to use a food source, than let's say a flake/pellet of food . Remember all the nitty gritty bits of the nitrogen cycle? It's part of this process and the main reason why the fish and coral are alive .

What's left over is this soup of "free" NO3 ions, "free" PO4 ions and molecular forms of N and P (proteins, lipids, carbohydrates, etc) that can be further degraded to "free" NO3 and PO4 ions.

The manner in how we deal with the "leftover nutrient" before they become a problem varies but the basic principal of "how it got there" is the exact same. Controlling issues as they arise is knowing/understanding what you are dealing with, what would cause their presence, the system parameters, equipment, etc, etc, etc. 

I hope I explained it clearly 

Ken @SUM sells both Geissmann and KZ (Korallen Zucht).

11hrs of light can be a problem if you have elevated NO3 and PO4. Knocking down to 6hrs shouldn't pose a problem. New bulbs can pose a problem simply because of higher light intensity vs aged bulbs.

Another thing that holds true, there are TWO things that these problematic growths require, that's light AND a food source. Limit one or the other, better yet both, and your back in charge .


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## wildexpressions (May 3, 2010)

I used Giessmann Pure Actinics and Aquablue+ and like them very much. My preference is 3 Actinics to 1 Aquablue+ or 2 Actinics, 1 Aquablue+ and 1 red bulb (~620nm). It all depends of your goals and what corals you grow.

Any way the point of this post is to say that if the existing bulbs are contributing significantly to the problem then you need to approach changing them with some care. Popping a full set of new bulbs in there set for the same photo period will almost certainly result in a sudden growth spurt of various nuisance growths due to the sudden increase in available light. I knoew other said it but I just wanted to reiterate it. 

This confuses people all of the time because they have been told it is the bulbs so they change them and the problem immediately gets worse. The advice can be correct but if the fix is not implemented correctly it can make the problem worse.

As wtac explained it is generally an issue that is created by the coming together of excess nutrients and light. Increase either of them and the problem generally gets worse. 

So all I am suggesting is the same thing others have suggested which is change the bulbs and back off the photoperiod at the same time. 

Even on systems with low waste/nutrients I will generally see a small flush of color from diatom/cyno/algae if i change all of the bulbs and leave the photo periods the same. In my case that is exactly what I do because I am confident my systems are very low nutrient systems and the flush will only last a few days. If there was existing cyno though I'd back off the photo period.

Hard to cover all of the bases in print


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## duckhams (Oct 13, 2009)

I apologize if this has already been mentioned, but I used to get cyano if I didnt change my halides regularly. Change your bulbs and add some MicroBacter7 and you'll be good to go. The presence of cyano is not something to freak out over, its part of the system. The fact that it's now visible means something needs changing. (i.e. light bulbs in mu case).


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