# List pick it apart



## pat3612

Heres my list will this work do you think
2 Koi Angelfish
bronze corys
2 Bolivian Rams 
Harlequin Rasboras 
Blue crayfish
2 pearl Gouramis


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## Pablo

2 Koi Angelfish <<Yep
2 Red Dwarf Gouramis << See footnotes
Cordoras panda << See footnotes
2 Bolivian Rams << Yep
Harlequin Rasboras <<Yep

RE: Red dwarf gouramis there are two species which one you talkin bout

http://www.otsuka-nettaigyo.com/img/RedHoneyGourami.jpg
Red Honey
http://www.aquaticreefsystems.com/forum/images/flameG.gif
Red Dwarf

The female of #1 will have more rounded dorsal fin while the males will be pointed. The female will have a rounded lobe ad the end of the anal fin

#2 females are typically grey in color though some colored females have recently been bred. Same characteristics apply.

A warning regarding Colisa sp, they are notorious for harboring internal parasites when obtained from fish stores. I've never had one, and I think I've had like 14, that didn't have some sort of internal parasite which I needed to treat for. This is true to a lesser extent of macropodus sp.

I suggest switching to a trichogaster species, either trichopterus or leeri, either of which will be fine, same sexing characteristics apply.

http://animal-world.com/encyclo/fresh/anabantoids/images/Blue(ThreeSpot)GouramiWFA_C2265.jpg
(gold/blue/silver, same species~ Do not confuse with moonlight or snakeskin)
"3 spot gourami" trichogaster trichopterus

http://www.fishlore.com/Pictures/Profiles/pearlgourami-lg.jpg
"Pearl Gourami" trichogaster leeri

Corydoras Panda have been overly inbred in recent years and the result is one of the weakest and least energetic or entertaining corydoras in the hobby. You will be much happier with the more genetically and physically robust corydoras aeneus which is available in a bronze and albino form.

Otherwise you're good to go.

As per bolivian Rams sexing them at the store is near impossible. Buy four, once you get a pair, remove the spares.

Sexing angelfish is easy if you get adults and bring someone who knows their stuff. If you get juvies, do the same as with the rams.

THE BEST Koi angelfish in Ontario are from Barb @ canadadiscus.com buy them anywhere else and you're getting inferior fish.

I suggest adding also atleast 12 amano shrimp one ancistrus sp. pleco of your choice and a couple of neritina natalensis (Zebra nerite) or neritina sp red nerite with black spots to keep it tidy.









www.canadadiscus.com

also if you insist on keeping Colisa gouramis, get those first, do a run of Levamisole followed by a run of Metronidazole, then stock.


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## Pablo

what is your aquascape plan/budget btw?

And what tank size / filtration / heating exactly u got?


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## Brian

Pablo, I'm not sure if Barb's family deals with fish anymore because she has passed away if you didn't know.

I've seen some really nice koi's at Dragon Aquarium yesterday though but I am sure there are a few other people around that have some nice angels for sale. Try to get 2 females so that you won't have to make space for a pair when they begin to spawn and chase all the other fish away.


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## Pablo

Brian said:


> Pablo, I'm not sure if Barb's family deals with fish anymore because she has passed away if you didn't know.
> 
> .


Oh my... That's terrible no I didn't know. I'm shocked to hear that. I'm sorry. 
What happened? She was posting fish for sale not even three months ago.

Wow I just don't know what to say... Poor Barb. I feel bad for her family and friends.


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## Pablo

Brian said:


> I've seen some really nice koi's at Dragon Aquarium yesterday though but I am sure there are a few other people around that have some nice angels for sale. Try to get 2 females so that you won't have to make space for a pair when they begin to spawn and chase all the other fish away.


I disagree with this although its an option and it will work fine.

I think the paired angelfish are very enjoyable. I have had many pairs and kept them successfully in the right hand 1/4 of the tank. Just put some kind of large broadleaved plant on one side, some floating plants and very slow current on the other, and the gouramis and angels will pretty well ignore eachother.

The dwarf cichlids on the bottom wont bother anybody even if they spawn... its pretty much the most inoffensive species there is (Bolivian Ram).

Regardless, even your initial list is fiesable, but I think you'd be best off to trim and adjust it like I mentioned to reduce headaches and increase enjoyment know what I mean?


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## Brian

You're probably right.

Its just my experience that when I have pairs of angels in a tank they would always chase fish away and it didn't look peaceful to me. I've never tried it with the mix he is proposing so it would probably work out.

I can't remember exactly when the Barb thing happend, it was before the New Year's if I remember correctly. We had it posted up in the Announcement and Sponsor section, you might be able to find it.


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## pat3612

*plants*

These are my plants I dont want co2 and all that stuff I going the simple approach though who knows in the future I might .Just remember Iam only a newbie and I dont want to get overwelmed.

Tiger lotus Red
Contortion Vals
Java Ferns 
Java moss for my wood which will be oak
Wendii red
Nana
Amazon swords.
The filter is Eheim 50 to 90 gallons. Dont know what heater is forgot to look when I was at the guys house the tank and stand are, 2 years old. All together with the tank and stand I have about 1000 to spend the tankand stand filter heater and lights decorations is 250 so I have 750 left.Plants will probably be 100 to 200 .


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## Brian

I think you can get those plants for less than 50$ - try PMing jrs.

What exactly is the guy giving you for 250$? As in tank size, etc.


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## pat3612

Brian said:


> I think you can get those plants for less than 50$ - try PMing jrs.
> 
> What exactly is the guy giving you for 250$? As in tank size, etc.


50 gal tank stand lights filter heater gravel if I want it decorations which I can resell there these roman things lol the stand is really nice oak. Does he ship because I cant get to Toronto my hubby hates it there and hes not a fish person.


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## Brian

Where abouts do you live?

I think jrs is in Burlington or St. Caths... something out there, lol.


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## Pablo

So hey did you go buy that list of fish or start buying it? Whats going on?


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## pat3612

Pablo said:


> So hey did you go buy that list of fish or start buying it? Whats going on?


No not yet I have to pick the tank on Sun. then I have to set it up and plant it and all that. I probably wont get the fish for a couple of weeks to a month I would like to see if I can find a pair of angels that are already paired if I can. Also Iam still reading up on the fish you suggested. I have a question though to you think I could put glass fish in instead of the rasboras. Also I have cherry shrimp from Kate arriving so I had to get a 10 gal going. Pat


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## Pablo

pat3612 said:


> No not yet I have to pick the tank on Sun. then I have to set it up and plant it and all that. I probably wont get the fish for a couple of weeks to a month I would like to see if I can find a pair of angels that are already paired if I can. Also Iam still reading up on the fish you suggested. I have a question though to you think I could put glass fish in instead of the rasboras. Also I have cherry shrimp from Kate arriving so I had to get a 10 gal going. Pat


Dont buy pre paired angels get a group and allow them to pair up

'glass fish' are one of two species, one is a tetra, the other is a catfish. Either one theoretically would be ok but both are very sensitive both to aggression and water quality and as a beginner I would say stay away for now

if you don't like the Rasboras there are about 150 species of small Tetra, Barb, and Characin you can substitute which will be hardier and will better round out the group in terms of their behaviour


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## Brian

The rams, angels and other fish will more likely than not kill your cherries.

Amanos are bigger so you might have better or worst luck with those.


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## pat3612

Brian said:


> Where abouts do you live?
> 
> I think jrs is in Burlington or St. Caths... something out there, lol.


I live near Barrie.


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## Pablo

Then why do you have the stuff you have? You have very hard water. You'd be much better off with africans or central american stuff


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## Brian

Ah, if you can't make the trip I know jrs ships but not until after March. Give him a PM and work something out with him, very knowledgable and has a wide variety of plants.


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## pat3612

Brian said:


> The rams, angels and other fish will more likely than not kill your cherries.
> 
> Amanos are bigger so you might have better or worst luck with those.


Sorry you misunderstood I just picked up a 10 gal today for the cherry shrimp.Its just going to be just for the shrimp. I think Iam going to bring a few small crayfish back from the cottage in spirng they should take care of the crap.Pat


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## pat3612

Pablo said:


> Then why do you have the stuff you have? You have very hard water. You'd be much better off with africans or central american stuff


Iam not sure what your talking about are you talking about the fish I already have.


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## pat3612

Brian said:


> Ah, if you can't make the trip I know jrs ships but not until after March. Give him a PM and work something out with him, very knowledgable and has a wide variety of plants.


Ok will do thanks for the info.


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## Pablo

pat3612 said:


> Iam not sure what your talking about are you talking about the fish I already have.


No I'm just saying that most people in your neck of the woods keep african cichlids because the hard water is better suited to them so you'll never have as happy SA stuff up there as you would CA/african stuff


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## pat3612

Pablo said:


> No I'm just saying that most people in your neck of the woods keep african cichlids because the hard water is better suited to them so you'll never have as happy SA stuff up there as you would CA/african stuff


Oh sorry I quess I should have mentioned that but being new I forgot all about it do I have to change the whole list or just the cichlids. Pat


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## Chris S

pat3612 said:


> Sorry you misunderstood I just picked up a 10 gal today for the cherry shrimp.Its just going to be just for the shrimp. I think Iam going to bring a few small crayfish back from the cottage in spirng they should take care of the crap.Pat


Crayfish will eat your fish, shrimp, snails and even some plants, given the chance. Small crayfish turn into big crayfish...at least I haven't noticed a small strand of crayfish in Ontario. Most get to about 6-8 cm, minimum and I see many probably around 12-14 cm.

I'd be careful!


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## Pablo

pat3612 said:


> Oh sorry I quess I should have mentioned that but being new I forgot all about it do I have to change the whole list or just the cichlids. Pat


Im not saying you have to change anything I'm saying that the water you have is better suited to fish that come from that kind of water


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## pat3612

Pablo said:


> Im not saying you have to change anything I'm saying that the water you have is better suited to fish that come from that kind of water


 Oh ok I suppose I can mix my water to make it softer there is an artisian well down the street everybody bottles the water down there Iam going to go get some and test it maybe its softer if so I can add it to my water till I get the right combination. After that I can just fill up some empty water bottles I have here. Pat


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## Pablo

pat3612 said:


> Oh ok I suppose I can mix my water to make it softer there is an artisian well down the street everybody bottles the water down there Iam going to go get some and test it maybe its softer if so I can add it to my water till I get the right combination. After that I can just fill up some empty water bottles I have here. Pat


Dont screw with your water. You're taking what I said too literally


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## Chris S

Pat, 

What he is saying is that you should try to keep species that thrive in your type of water, not that you should change your water to suite certain species.

Trust me, trying to change your water to suite your fish is MUUUUUCHHHH harder than just getting some fish that enjoy what water you already have readily available.


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## Pablo

Chris Stewart said:


> Pat,
> 
> What he is saying is that you should try to keep species that thrive in your type of water, not that you should change your water to suite certain species.
> 
> Trust me, trying to change your water to suite your fish is MUUUUUCHHHH harder than just getting some fish that enjoy what water you already have readily available.


not to mention if you mix waters with two seperate pH's and kH's you may end up without enough kH to support the eventual PH which would cause a pH bounce- or if one of the waters had a prevalent acid in it you'd get consumption of calcium and magnesium over time which would cause a pH drop as well. There are 1000 reasons not to mix two waters unless one of them is pure water such as distilled or reverse osmosis water.

If you really wanted to soften water all you'd need to do is buy Seachem Discus Buffer and follow the instructions. It eats the calcium and magnesium out of your water dropping the hardness and it ionizes hydrogen directly to bring down your pH and is hella-stable.

Speaking of which I'd like to take a minute to mention that not enough people use the Seachem Buffers, which are a godscend, and you make your lives so much more difficult than they need to be. Its cheap, its wicked, and it makes it a lot easier to keep and breed fish that need specific water- for cheap- from tap.


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## pat3612

Ok so if I buy the buffer I can stay with my list and everything will be ok . I dont really mind buying stuff though Iam going to need a dresser just for my fish stuff today I went out and bought medicines just in case any of my fish do get sick. I really think I have mommy syndrome since my kids are all gone now. lol


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## Pablo

pat3612 said:


> Ok so if I buy the buffer I can stay with my list and everything will be ok . I dont really mind buying stuff though Iam going to need a dresser just for my fish stuff today I went out and bought medicines just in case any of my fish do get sick. I really think I have mommy syndrome since my kids are all gone now. lol


 You shouldn't buy medication because the best medication when something pops up will be the one you don't have. Murphy's law.

I'm not saying you need to do anything. Leave your water alone. I was talking hypothetically.
If you wanted to you could use the stuff and gradually reduce your pH and hardness but you really don't need to.


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## pat3612

Pablo said:


> You shouldn't buy medication because the best medication when something pops up will be the one you don't have. Murphy's law.
> 
> I'm not saying you need to do anything. Leave your water alone. I was talking hypothetically.
> If you wanted to you could use the stuff and gradually reduce your pH and hardness but you really don't need to.


Ok thanks like I said I think I have mommy syndrome lol ok Iam not buying anything else . I do like to shop though lol.


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