# Green Water



## NuclearTech

So I've had my 33gallon tank set up for a couple of months now and I'm noticing that on more days than not, it is afflicted with the green water curse. I first began seeing it shortly after I upgraded my lights, and it would come and go every few days. At first, I could get rid of it by just doing a water change, but now even that won't help. 

Parameters:
AC70 - soon to be upgraded to canister
no CO2, but dose with Excel daily
T5's - Hagen Glo's - one is 39W 6700K and the other is 39W 18 000K (blueish) for 12 hrs/day
ammonia = 0
nitrite = 0
nitrate = 5 mg/l
pH: 7.6
gH: been awhile since I tested it, but it's downtown TO water

Fish include 11 cardinals, 2 bolivians, 2 oto's and 4 danios (which are still in there only because I CAN'T catch them  )

Tank is I'd say about 50 - 60% planted. Plants seem fine. Lots of hygo, wisteria, java moss, some vals, rotala, cabomba...

I don't dose with any ferts right now since the tank is new and besides, when I tried to add some Kent pro plant, I got the green water BADDDDD!

Here's my first thought: It could be the blueish light that I've got in there. Is it likely that my problem will be solved by just removing that one and adding another 6700k? Do I need to add CO2 to match my current lighting? Some combo of changing lighting and adding CO2? 

Thoughts appreciated and constructive criticism happily accepted.


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## Chris S

Green water is often caused by stirring up the substrate when planting or pruning in conjuction with too much light. New aquariums often get it too, for the same reasons.

Do some searching in this exact forum and you will find some good solutions for getting rid of green water.


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## NuclearTech

Thanks for your reply Chris


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## Chris S

Check out this thread:

http://gtaaquaria.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3496


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## NuclearTech

Awesome, Thanks.

I had actually gone through it before I posted, but I guess I went through too quickly.

I got stuck on the whole ammonia spike, which I don't seem to have, so I figured it couldn't be the cause. Now, stirring up the substrate...that's another ball game. Could definitely be a contributing factor, and one that I am guilty of.

I think I will wait and see if the tank takes care of itself in the next week or so while I leave the gravel alone. If not, I'll invest in a UV sterilizer. I'm upgrading the filter anyways, so what the heck . 

Thanks so much for your help. Most appreciated!


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## Darkblade48

You don't necessarily need to be able to measure ammonia in order to have GW. The thread that Chris linked you to (heh, mine), showed a pea soup tank that consistently measured 0 ppm ammonia with the API test kit. This doesn't mean that there wasn't some trace ammonia source that started the GW in the first place.

I think my GW problems started when I stirred up the substrate too 

Anyways, I've tried sitting it out, etc, but in the end, I just did a 3 day blackout, and everything is fine now.


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## NuclearTech

3 days eh?

And you've had no probs since? That's encouraging. I've committed myself to not stir up the substrate too much. Maybe I will try a 3 day black out though.

I'm also researching using either a UV sterilizer or a diatom filter. They are both about the same price it seems.

Any thoughts on the efficacy/efficiency of either of those? I suppose the most prudent thing to do is to try the black out first. 

Thanks for the encouraging words!


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## Chris S

UV will work fine, no need for a diatom.

As for ammonia not being the cause, I can almost guarantee you that it is.

An ammonia spike won't be measurable later on, as the GW now exists. What the GW is did is use up all that extra ammonia very quickly, now all you have to do is just starve it to death.

Good luck.


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## Darkblade48

UV will work fine, as Chris mentioned. The only reason I opted not to buy one was because it was in my 2.5g nano 

In my case, after a 3 day blackout, I started aggressively injecting CO2 and dosing EI, and it's been fine (except for a bit of green spot algae from time to time, but that's better than pea soup)


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## NuclearTech

Okay then...

garbage bags, here I come!  

I'll let you guys know on Thurs how it went. Thanks!


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## Darkblade48

Prior to your blackout, do as large a water change that is feasible (i.e. I have a plant only 2.5g nano, so I did nearly 100% water change). Then do your 3-4 day blackout (I kept the CO2 going during this time, but did not add any ferts).

After your blackout period, do another large water change, and then start dosing your ferts. After the blackout period, any GW that is left will be hanging on for dear life, so you can be guaranteed that it *will* want to survive; by removing it, it'll get rid of most of the GW.

Let us know how it goes.


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## Chris S

I would def. turn off any co2.


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## NuclearTech

No CO2 running. So no prob there. 

It is day 2 of blackout. Kind of weird to wake up and see the tank wrapped up like a present. It'll be like Christmas when I get to open it tomorrow night! Here's hoping I like what I get...


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## XbrandonX

My water turned green the day you posted this thread and I'm watching to see how it goes.. You just taped black garbage bags all over it? Could I just throw a blanket over it? 

Keep us posted, thanks.


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## Darkblade48

XbrandonX said:


> My water turned green the day you posted this thread and I'm watching to see how it goes.. You just taped black garbage bags all over it? Could I just throw a blanket over it?
> 
> Keep us posted, thanks.


Yes, you can do that as well, as long as no light gets into the tank.


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## NuclearTech

actually, my garbage bags are green, but yah I just taped them over the tank.
I made sure that I did it in such a way so that I could still use them again when I'm done. My tank is open topped and my light fixture sits about 6 inches above it, so I made sort of like a dome over the lights to allow for some gas diffusion.

Are you going to try and do the same?


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## XbrandonX

i have some thick old wool hudson bay blankets so I think Ill just drape one over the tank lengthways and leave it there... maybe turn the heater down a couple degrees just incase...

im procrastinating doing it.. I don't know why, lol


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## Darkblade48

XbrandonX said:


> i have some thick old wool hudson bay blankets so I think Ill just drape one over the tank lengthways and leave it there... maybe turn the heater down a couple degrees just incase...
> 
> im procrastinating doing it.. I don't know why, lol


That will work fine. If you have fish, I would feed them heavily a couple days prior to the blackout. During the 3 day blackout period, you shouldn't feed your fish (this might be hard, despite how easy it sounds!). You really don't want *any* light getting into the tank during the blackout period.


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## XbrandonX

right on, I was just going to ask about feeding the tank...


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## NuclearTech

Well, Christmas has come and gone. I unwrapped my tank this evening. Did a good solid big water change and took a quick peek with the light on. It seems to have been very effective. The green water I took out of the tank was about 90% less green than it was just 3 days ago. Of course, the next few days will help determine if I've solved the issue, but thanks to everyone who has helped me out! Most appreciated


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## XbrandonX

ya it wurked for me as well. Day two after blackout no GW  

Thanks for posting this thread.


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## NuclearTech

Glad it was successful for you too!

Unfortunately, the green water is back.  I have decided to tear down the tank this weekend, change a few things around (change my substrate, maybe add CO2, a sterilizer, better filter etc) and start again. I have to fix whatever the issue is that's causing the green water (probably just too much light combined with my bioload and the need for better filtration) so that I get to the root cause. It's a lot of work, but it's gotta get done!  

Hopefully you're having better luck!


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## Chris S

test for ammonia too, while you are at it.


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## NuclearTech

Yep Yep. I have been testing regularly. It's always zero, regardless of whether there is green water or not. Which of course would make you think that maybe there is something wrong with the test kit right?! But alas,  the test kit works as it has successfully been through the cycling process of 2 tanks. 

It's okay though. I have a plan. Not gonna give up here.  Maybe I will journal it this time as well!


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## XbrandonX

My GW is creeping back too.. I'd give it three more days till potential pea soup.

I read somewhere that waiting may help.. lets see how true that is ; )


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## NuclearTech

I bought a UV sterilizer last night and installed it. Let's see if this works. 

I agree with the whole waiting thing up to a certain point. Usually things figure themselves out - however, I've been struggling with the green water for quite some time now and I realize that for 'me', I've just got a parameter off all the time and I have to try and fix that. None of my other tanks are going through this right now, so that helps me out a lot!


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## XbrandonX

Ya, my other tanks fine too.. I noticed my tank was ok till I dosed with the flourish comprehensive mix and then bam GW creeping in... maybe I'll only dose a half the amount next time and see if it helps.

So which sterilizer did you get and was it expensive? 

Let me know how it works if you can.


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## Chris S

A UV sterilizer should work very well, just make sure you do water changes shortly after to remove the dead algae.


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## Tabatha

Wouldn't shortening the light cycle help a lot? Twelve hours is a LONG time for the lights to be on full blast!


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## Chris S

Tabatha said:


> Twelve hours is a LONG time for the lights to be on full blast!


Agreed - I would keep it down to 8 at least until your green water problem is rectified.


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## Tabatha

Actually, we only leave the lights on for 8 hours, period. Since we're not home during the day, it doesn't really matter when they come on so we've set the timer to come on at 2:00 p.m. and off at 10:00 p.m. so we can enjoy the tanks while we're home.


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## Darkblade48

I agree with Tabatha and Chris; the first thing I (tried) was to cut my lighting down from 10 hours to 8 hours to fight off GW. It didn't work, so I did end up doing a blackout, but afterwards, I've kept the lighting duration at 8 hours, and I haven't gotten pea soup again....yet (knock on wood).


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## KnaveTO

When it comes to planted tanks, most of what I have read has stated that 10-12 hours is the duration you should have your lights on for (Tom Barr and Rex Grigg). If the GW is returning after a 72 hour blackout then you should probably look at how much you are fertilizing your tanks, how much you are feeding the fish and your water change routine. Any one of these can cause a recurrance of GW shortly after you have completed a blackout. As for starving your fish, I travel frequently and my fish do not get fed while I am on these trips. Although anything longer than 5days and I have someone come in and feed on alternating days.


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## NuclearTech

Ok, so it sounds like I'm on the right track.

Today is tear down day. I will be re-arranging all my plants, removing the ones that aren't doing so well, pruning the ones that are doing too well...

I'm also adding fluorite and taking out all of my other gravel so basically the tank will get emptied...

I got my UV sterilizer from Menagerie. It's called the 'Green Killing Marchine' and no that's not a type-O. It's made in P.R.C. and Harold told me it would work fine. It's just a 9 W submersible made by a company called AA aquariums. $60.
It's been up and running since Thurs night. I still have a lot of green water, however I have a funny feeling that it's gonna take this tear down to start over before the sterilizer can keep up.

Lights are now set to 8 hours and I agree with you guys - I will be feeding my fishes every other day (damn it, just like my dad told me too  ). Wish me luck today, this is a daunting task...


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## Darkblade48

Just to let you know, UV usually takes 2-3 days or more to clear out all the green water. Also, be sure to keep up with your water changes during this time as well; the UV kills the algal spores, but doesn't remove them from the water, so the could pollute your water if not promptly removed.


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## NuclearTech

*No more Green Water*

Okay, I did it.

I took out everything...and I mean everything this morning. I've added my new gravel, cleaned out the tank, re-planted in the foggy haze and voila!

Along with the other recommended changes I hope to have banished the green nasties forever! Well, other than what I'd want to grow for my otos. Just so you know, one of my otos looks morbidly obese. I'll post a pic when the haze clears completely, but he/she looks HUGE. The other one just looks well fed and plump. They look to be different types of otos: the huge one is more golden while the slimmer one is grey. The gold one is also a whole lot bossier and is sort of the king/queen of the tank.

Thanks to all who have posted their suggestions. More thoughts welcome. I'll get a pic of the clear tank up soon I hope. The green one was just too embarrassing to post.


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## XbrandonX

I'm under full blackout again... 24 hrs in.

This time I blacked out my rena input/output hoses and my rena canister too... I think that's where i messed up last time.

I'm doing the garbage bags instead of the blanket this time too..

I'll keep you posted.


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## NuclearTech

I definitely feel your frustration. For me, I noticed that if I put any type of fert in the tank, the next day I would get a full blown case of gw. I don't use co2 (other than what diffuses at the surface of the tank haha  ) but I was dosing with excel so I really believe I had some serious unbalances. Really, the algae was just a natural part of the ecosystem I was creating for my tank, so I had to re-think a bit of chemistry and my system.

This time around: still no CO2, fluorite on the bottom, lights only on for 8 hours/day, no ferts/no excel, fish fed every other day, water changes of 30% once a week. Oh, and the sterilizer should help. Hopefully this will work long-term.

Let's hear how it goes for you, keep me posted.


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## Calmer

http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/algae.htm

Check out the Green Water area:

"A new method is to use freshly cut 1-2 year old willow branches about 0.5-1cm in width. Place these in your tank vertically so they go from the substrate to a few centimetres above the water's surface. After a few days they will start to grow roots and the green water should start to clear. When cleared remove the branches from the water."

I hope it helps.


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## XbrandonX

Calmer said:


> http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/algae.htm
> 
> Check out the Green Water area:
> 
> "A new method is to use freshly cut 1-2 year old willow branches about 0.5-1cm in width. Place these in your tank vertically so they go from the substrate to a few centimetres above the water's surface. After a few days they will start to grow roots and the green water should start to clear. When cleared remove the branches from the water."
> 
> I hope it helps.


If the GW returns I'm definitely down with trying this method...

If I can find some willow trees somewhere.


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## NuclearTech

I remember reading about willow branches. Anyone know why that works? Is it just because willows are relatively fast growing and water-loving so that they suck up excess nutrients? If so, would another similar-type plant work just as well? Just curious.


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## Chris S

Same thing would work by adding like, water lettuce or duckweed - just harder to actually remove the plant when you don't need it anymore.


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## KnaveTO

There are willows all over the GTA. You may want to also look into florists as they use them in arrangements.


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## Calmer

Maybe even those "Lucky Bamboos" seen in almost every store. As long as some of the twig is in the air, out of the water. In deep tanks you can tie it so part of the twig is above water. I have not yet used this method so this is all on assumption


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## Ciddian

> Same thing would work by adding like, water lettuce or duckweed - just harder to actually remove the plant when you don't need it anymore.


LOL arrg so true!!!


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## kweenshaker

NuclearTech said:


> I remember reading about willow branches. Anyone know why that works? Is it just because willows are relatively fast growing and water-loving so that they suck up excess nutrients? If so, would another similar-type plant work just as well? Just curious.


what kind of willows? Or any Salix species? Maybe it works because they can be live rooted. (Meaning you can cut a twig off a tree and stick it in the ground and it will root)..


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## Tabatha

What about a diatom filter? I know they're not cheap but neither is a UV filter.

Has anyone used one? Should I start another thread?


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## NuclearTech

Tabatha said:


> What about a diatom filter? I know they're not cheap but neither is a UV filter.
> 
> Has anyone used one? Should I start another thread?


I asked this in another thread (in Equipment I think). Dekstr was kind enough to post a good article.

http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/...omfilters.html

It will teach you the longest word in the English language though...I'm warning you!


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## Tabatha

Link didn't work.


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## Katalyst

http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/management/Lawler_Diatomfilters.html


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## NuclearTech

Thanks Kat.


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