# Eco-complete vs potting soil



## AquaticPulse (Jun 19, 2011)

I'm thinking of converting the 60 gallon tank into a planted tank right now. I don't think i'm going to be using ADA soil (just because it's so damn expensive lol) like i did for my nano tanks, so i'm curious on the other options. I've read to use either eco-complete or potting soil, though i still can't decide on which is better. I'm also opened to other options if you have any recommendations.

All i know right now is the following
- Eco complete doesn't need to be capped with gravel as it's inert. It doesn't give off nitrate as there's no organic matter. Its high in iron and other trace elements for nutrients
- Potting soil needs to be capped with gravel, it decomposes over time and results in higher nitrate concentrations. Loss of nutrients over time as it's absorbed by plants, etc. Need to add iron supplements into the soil. 

Any additional information is appreciated. and I would love to hear your opinion on which you recommend.


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## Will (Jul 24, 2008)

I've use EcoComplete (or Eco + Fluorite black sand) in all my recent setups and it's working great! I like how I get to control how mucn nutrients I am releasing into the tank, where you are at the mercy of dirt and how well the gravel cap restricts the nutrients from coming into the water column.

It's clear that natural planted tanks with dirt can be very successful even longterm, but i like the freedom of being able to rescape or change plants without huge algae blooms or durt settling ontop of the gravel cap.


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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

I think Will says it all. For me, that's not even a close comparison.

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## AquaticPulse (Jun 19, 2011)

i'm sorry if this is a noob or stupid question, why the fluorite black sand mix with eco?


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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

You don't have to, it's a matter of preference. But I know that you can't grow much with flourite black sand. It's the eco-complete that you'd want to use.

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## charlie1 (Dec 1, 2011)

Zebrapl3co said:


> You don't have to, it's a matter of preference. But I know that you can't grow much with flourite black sand. It's the eco-complete that you'd want to use.


 Interesting opinion, can you explain what seperates the 2 & what you can`t grow in the Flourite sand & why.?
Thanks


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## qwerty (Dec 15, 2009)

Not sure whether you're intending to add CO2 or not, but my opinions/experience...

I was able to grow plenty with just fluorite black sand alone with occasional root tabs. It was low lighting with undemanding plants. Nothing too spectacular, but it was my first tank.

When I used higher lighting with CO2 and EI dosing I grew even more in fluorite black sand, but part of EI dosing is that the substrate is pretty well cut out of the equation.

I have never used Eco-Complete.

Using potting soil, I have never found nitrates to be an issue. The low-tech tanks with soil substrates were some of the cleanest and lowest maintenance tanks I've run. Soil does have organic matter in it, but so will any substrate after a reasonable amount of time. It has never presented an issue for me.

I have seen people who have successfully adapted soil to CO2 injected tanks, but have not seen an agreed upon method for this, and some fertilization was still implemented.

The soil will lose its nutrients over time, but so will any substrate you use. Substrates can replenish their nutrient content though, So eventually a substrate's cation/anion exchange capacity becomes an important part of maintaining the substrate's quality over the long-run.

The cation/anion binding capacity of a substrate prevents nutrients from entering the water column. The gravel cap is mostly necessary to stop the soil from getting disturbed and making a mess of the tank.

If you're confident and willing to devote some time to learning more, it might be a good experience to try experimenting with something less conventional for a change. Otherwise if easy success is crucial, you might feel better sticking to what you know best. 'least that's my opinion.


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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

charlie1 said:


> Interesting opinion, can you explain what seperates the 2 & what you can`t grow in the Flourite sand & why.?
> Thanks


Simply look at what's grown on the desert or a sandy beach. Plants grown in these places only survive, they don't thrive and bloom. 
But ultimately, with enough experiments yourself, you'd discover that using sand and plastic/rock barriers is the best way to stop plants from growing out of their boundry. If I wanted a desolation look in my tank, sand would be the perfect medium.

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## charlie1 (Dec 1, 2011)

Zebrapl3co said:


> Simply look at what's grown on the desert or a sandy beach. Plants grown in these places only survive, they don't thrive and bloom.
> But ultimately, with enough experiments yourself, you'd discover that using sand and plastic/rock barriers is the best way to stop plants from growing out of their boundry. If I wanted a desolation look in my tank, sand would be the perfect medium.


 Thanks for the lesson, but unless i missed something or don`t know something you know Flourite Balck sand is clay based &named as such for the grainular texture & have no properites of sand.


> *Flourite Black Sand™ is a specially fracted, stable porous clay gravel *for the natural planted aquarium. Its appearance is best suited to planted aquaria, but may be used in any aquarium environment. Flourite Black Sand™ is most effective when used alone as an integral substrate bed, but it may be mixed with other gravels. Gravel modifiers such as laterite are not necessary. Flourite Black Sand™ is not chemically coated or treated and will not alter the pH of the water.


Regards


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## charlie1 (Dec 1, 2011)

Zebrapl3co said:


> Simply look at what's grown on the desert or a sandy beach. Plants grown in these places only survive, they don't thrive and bloom.
> But ultimately, with enough experiments yourself, you'd discover that using sand and plastic/rock barriers is the best way to stop plants from growing out of their boundry. If I wanted a desolation look in my tank, sand would be the perfect medium.


Still curious what can`t be grown in fluorite black sand.
Regards


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## Newobsession (Nov 17, 2010)

I've never had issues growing anything inthe fluorite sand. Granted, I only have/had one tank with it as I use the standard fluorite in the other planted tanks I've done. To be honest, the only issue I had withthe snad I had was that it actually was more of a grey than black so I didn't end up with the look I wanted (maybe I just had an odd batch)

As for the OP original question, regarding Eco vs potting soil (funny enough I had this exact conversation this morning with a fish friend at work), aside from the nutrient point of view, it would also depend on how much you like to tinker with your tank. While I've never done the potting soil route, it is my understanding that it can be a royal pain if you are the type who likes to plant and replant and move etc as whenever you disturb the gravel cap and end up exposing the soil you get bits of debris floating around the tank. If you are the type of person (like I am) that is constantly replanting and moving things, I would say Eco (or Fluorite, I have both and other than the shape I find them to be the same) is the way to go. IF you want a long term slow and steady "natural" tank, then take a shot at the potting soil, if nothing else to try something new as earlier mentioned.


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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

"You don't have to, *it's a matter of preference*. But I know that you *can't grow much *with flourite black sand. It's the eco-complete that you'd want to use.

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## charlie1 (Dec 1, 2011)

Zebrapl3co said:


> "[/B]. But I know that you *can't grow much *with flourite black sand. .


 I would dearly like to learn what you can`t grow with Flourite black sand.
don`t want to waste time trying , can you tell me.
Thanks


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## charlie1 (Dec 1, 2011)

OP my apologies for the mild threadjack, but since the flourite sand was brought up , i`m sure we can all learn what can`t be grown with it from others who have tried it & failed.
Regards


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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

charlie1 said:


> OP my apologies for the mild threadjack, but since the flourite sand was brought up , i`m sure we can all learn what can`t be grown with it from others who have tried it & failed.
> Regards


From my experience. My biggest grieve is with the plants inability to take up a good rooting system into the sand. This makes them frail and very easy to lift off against currents during water changes or even from the filters current. Taking out the plant and looking at the developement of roots compare to the ones that grow in a substrate. I found the roots from the black sand are extremely wiggly and short. It looks as if it's having problem pushing its roots properly. This I suspect leads to the frailness I've seem from the plant itself. I comparing this to the much longer and some what straighter root developement from the same type of plant grown in a subtrate. (And this is from comparing Flourite black sand against Flourite black gravel. They are supposed to have very similar properties)
Plants grown in the black sand are all drawfs compare to the ones grown in a substrate. Not only that but they grow about 1/4 slower if not more. Also, the ability to propogate in the black sand subtrate can take an enternity. The rate of propogation is about 1 vs 10.
So when you say that you can grow just about anything with flourite black sand. I don't dispute that because I know they can, I've done it myself. But are they thriving and blooming like a forest? That would be No. The plant is only surviving, but are far from thriving and blooming. And that's why I said they can't grow much.
And another thing, depending on how you replant your stem plants. If you are the type who cut and replant the top part of the plant, you will quickly have an empty black sanded tank. If you're the type who cuts the top part and leave the roots to re-grow a new stem. You'll stand a better chance.

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## charlie1 (Dec 1, 2011)

Zebrapl3co said:


> From my experience. My biggest grieve is with the plants inability to take up a good rooting system into the sand. This makes them frail and very easy to lift off against currents during water changes or even from the filters current. Taking out the plant and looking at the developement of roots compare to the ones that grow in a substrate. I found the roots from the black sand are extremely wiggly and short. It looks as if it's having problem pushing its roots properly. This I suspect leads to the frailness I've seem from the plant itself. I comparing this to the much longer and some what straighter root developement from the same type of plant grown in a subtrate. (And this is from comparing Flourite black sand against Flourite black gravel. They are supposed to have very similar properties)
> Plants grown in the black sand are all drawfs compare to the ones grown in a substrate. Not only that but they grow about 1/4 slower if not more. Also, the ability to propogate in the black sand subtrate can take an enternity. The rate of propogation is about 1 vs 10.
> *So when you say that you can grow just about anything with flourite black sand.* I don't dispute that because I know they can, I've done it myself. But are they thriving and blooming like a forest? That would be No. The plant is only surviving, but are far from thriving and blooming. And that's why I said they can't grow much.
> And another thing, depending on how you replant your stem plants. If you are the type who cut and replant the top part of the plant, you will quickly have an empty black sanded tank. If you're the type who cuts the top part and leave the roots to re-grow a new stem. You'll stand a better chance.


 Thanks for your explanation it not only helps me understand your statement but i`m sure others as well, for clarification i don`t recall saying i can grow anything with it, since i have never used it but have used Flourite red & eco complete, that said one of my buddies did use it extensively & grew almost all of the plants that is listed in my 2 builds here, i can tell you what i have seen in his tanks did not just grow they thrived so i can`t agree to your claim that the answer to if they will thrive & bloom like a forest is no, i can respect that it is your personal experience though.
To OP, i did use Eco in 2 tanks in one tank it was fine & the other it had some issues with leaching carbonates- raising the hardness over a short period, on researching this i learnt that Eco complete is reported to have had some trouble @ one point with consistency, this is also the case with other substrates @ times even the much touted ADA soil, this is not to say any of them are bad, they all have their pros & cons, it`s all about what you want/expect.
Regards
Regards


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## FlyingHellFish (Mar 7, 2011)

Do you guys with Flourite Black or Black Sand, find any weird pieces of coloured rocks? Mine seem to be mix with small red pieces and grey rock. The red pieces look like clay and the grey rocks are quite large. 

Anyways, is it true that Eco complete will compact over time? How does it compare to potting soil for different level slops?


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