# looking for information needed to finance an Ontario based coral farm



## wildexpressions (May 3, 2010)

As the title says we are looking for information on the topic of the marine aquarium industry.

We are in the later planning stages of a commercial coral aquaculture facility located in Ontario. We are looking to gather info to put together the needed business plans and reports to acquire financial partners. 

If any of you know of any resources that give numbers on things like the annual size of the domestic market, size of the US market, market trends ,etc it would be much appreciated if you could share the links or pointers. 

Our goal is to serve the domestic wholesale market as well as export product into the states.


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## 50seven (Feb 14, 2010)

Good luck on this endeavour. However it's usually not WHAT you know but WHO you know  ...maybe marry a banker?!? LOL With a good business plan, if there's money to be made, somebody will be willing to invest or give a loan. People currently in the LFS business or who import product to sell would know more what kind of market there is. 

My market strategy has been this: You could start a small-scale operation and test the waters so to speak. If you are able to introduce a demand for your product and show that you have buyers lining up if you can produce the volume necessary, a bank or investor will gladly loan the money to expand.

Best of luck!


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## wildexpressions (May 3, 2010)

Being in the industry myself I know lots of people in the industry. None of them have much in the way of the type of info I'm looking for.

I'm looking for hard documented data from reliable sources that give a picture of the industry/hobby at large for Canada specifically but also the states.

I'd also be interested in global exportation numbers, countries that no longer allow collection, etc. 

Basically anything that can help me draw a picture of the current industry as well as trends.

I do not need funding for this project, I want funding for this project. Funding will only affect the scale of the operation we start with and the speed that it initially grows at.


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## Ciddian (Mar 15, 2006)

I wish I could be of help but I am not really


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## Shoryureppa (Jul 1, 2011)

Are you looking to do it ORA style? Would you also do a diver's den type thing. That would be so awesome. I'm always willIng to pay premium for quality fish. Maybe you can test it on google adwords. All my ideas are tested on Adwords to see demand on things.


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## Mlevi (Jan 28, 2012)

I don't think you'll get concrete numbers compiled anywhere At best, it would all be anecdotal. You'd have to take the numbers from sites like 'canada.frags.org' and extrapolate (if I understand correctly the type of numbers info you are looking for). 

The only other source I can think of, is from studies done for research purposes. Look up 'cites' or 'Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora'. Might have to dig deep, but there could be some numbers data that could be useful.


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## Shoryureppa (Jul 1, 2011)

This May help...

http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0035808


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## wildexpressions (May 3, 2010)

Shoryureppa said:


> This May help...
> 
> http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0035808


nice. I already have two tabs open on www.plosone.org/ but I hadn't found that one yet. Definitely on target.

thanks


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## wildexpressions (May 3, 2010)

Mlevi said:


> I don't think you'll get concrete numbers compiled anywhere At best, it would all be anecdotal. You'd have to take the numbers from sites like 'canada.frags.org' and extrapolate (if I understand correctly the type of numbers info you are looking for).
> 
> The only other source I can think of, is from studies done for research purposes. Look up 'cites' or 'Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora'. Might have to dig deep, but there could be some numbers data that could be useful.


yeah I agree but I'd like to have good sources I can point to back my extrapolated data 

I've owned a variety of differing businesses but I have 0 experience with going after grants, loans, etc and it is all a little mystifying. I'm trying to avoid hiring a consultant but it may come to that.

CITES website has lots of info but I'm looking for consolidated numbers which I'm sure they have but I have yet to stumble across them. I'll definitely be looker deeper at them. Actually I think I'll send them an email tomorrow.


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## wildexpressions (May 3, 2010)

Shoryureppa said:


> Are you looking to do it ORA style? Would you also do a diver's den type thing. That would be so awesome. I'm always willIng to pay premium for quality fish. Maybe you can test it on google adwords. All my ideas are tested on Adwords to see demand on things.


We are already a pretty environmentally correct shop (at least as close as we can be an still make money) and we would like to essentially build something 1/2 way between GARF and ORA. There are a couple of coral farms stateside that pretty much match that description already.

Interesting you mention Google as most salt water search terms have been in decline for quite a few years now. Most people think it is because it peaked so high with the fish cartoon movies and rather then decline it is just correcting itself. Tell ya what, at least half my customers still identify fish as Nemo's Dora's etc so it quite possible lol

I used to own a web design and hosting company some years ago. I'm not to worried about google results although I do plan on using the web extensively to promote the business.


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## wildexpressions (May 3, 2010)

Mlevi said:


> The only other source I can think of, is from studies done for research purposes. Look up 'cites' or 'Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora'. Might have to dig deep, but there could be some numbers data that could be useful.


I had CITES open in a tab so I just went and had a 2nd look. They definitely have some of the data I was after. It is interesting. Shows a decline in coral trade for Canada.


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## caker_chris (Apr 22, 2010)

I know REEF RAFT does alot of exporting to the states, maybe you should talk to him.


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## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

Not many LFS will divulge numbers to you in an accurate manner. Your best bet is to contact Canada customs for figures relating to importation under a specific category which I forget the number that you have to plug in when importing corals at the self serve customs computer.

Definitely contact CITES as every LFS/importer/transhipper that legally imports coral requires CITES permits and will be noted in their manifest.

Good luck!


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## wildexpressions (May 3, 2010)

I'd suggest that not many LFS have any idea of the numbers. Even those that export do not in my experience have any significant statistics at hand and nor do they care. Every LFS that does any level exporting simply evolved into it rather than entered into as part of a detail business plan. 

There are no significant coral farms or saltwater breeding operations in Canada to my knowledge. I don't believe there has ever even been an attempt made. Does any one know of one?


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## neebs (Dec 2, 2011)

Neat. Are you preparing a road show presentation?


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## vaporize (Apr 10, 2006)

why don't you work out a draft business plan and see how long you can break even on your initial investment. Then multiple the time you estimated by double (or triple).

The last marine fish breeding operation didn't even break even. 

good luck


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## wildexpressions (May 3, 2010)

vaporize said:


> why don't you work out a draft business plan and see how long you can break even on your initial investment. Then multiple the time you estimated by double (or triple).
> 
> The last marine fish breeding operation didn't even break even.
> 
> good luck


I'm way past the draft business plan/evaluation period. I don't have much intention on breeding fish except as an added value once the coral farm is operating. There are fish that can be bred at a decent profit but as a foundation business it pretty much a waste at this time. It is simply to cheap to import wild caught fish. That will likely change over the next 5 years 
but I'm not counting on it lol


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## wildexpressions (May 3, 2010)

neebs said:


> Neat. Are you preparing a road show presentation?


no but I know GARF does that. Is that why you ask? My understanding is the road show is mostly Sally Joe's deal. I don't think Leroy has to much to do with it. They are a pretty inspirational couple. Sally Joe has some amazing aquariums and it is absolutely remarkable the amount of frags she harvests from 5 x 50 gallon aquariums.

I really have no interest in replicating their setup. I like the simplicity of it but it has kind of a hippy low tech feel to it. I'm targeting some where between ORA and GARF.


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## J_T (Mar 25, 2011)

To make money farming, low tech is the way to go. Email calfo, or talbot. T5HO, and water changes is what they will recommend. Eventually, water changes become topping up. As you bag to distribute, you give away the dirty water, and top up with fresh.

Warehouse, pond tubs, light fixtures, powerheads, and good to go!

Posted with my Xperia, using Tapatalk 2


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## vaporize (Apr 10, 2006)

so ... how's your plan going along?


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## badmedicine (Oct 27, 2012)

I applaud your efforts. A Canadian coral farm sounds incredible. It speaks to the ethical and ecological efforts being made by most coral hobbyist= only on a bigger scale. 
I am surprised that you chose Ontario as a location... either coast has salt water in abundance.


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