# why



## Big Ray (Dec 8, 2009)

do ppl get so pissed when they learn something new ? 



how come ppl in university lectures dont fight with the prof who tries to teach them science or whatever ? lol

makes no sense ....

its my understanding that if you ask a question online, u want the answer for it ! then why do ppl loose their ..... when the correct answer is not what they thought !!


I know its a hobby, but those who dont want to learn it or understand it, wont be asking questions online right ?


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## PACMAN (Mar 4, 2010)

Big Ray said:


> do ppl get so pissed when they learn something new ?
> 
> *how come ppl in university lectures dont fight with the prof who tries to teach them science or whatever ? lol*
> 
> makes no sense ....


they pay them to teach!


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## Kweli (Jun 2, 2010)

Well, sometimes people NEED a certain answer to feel like what they did (or are about to do) is correct. If you dont give that answer, they get a second opinion

I learned pretty early that this hobby has alot of opinions based on personal experiences. What works for one guy might be the downfall of another.

Wait.... your not talking about me right?


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## 50seven (Feb 14, 2010)

Because people are arrogant SOB's who don't like to be told that they are wrong or shouldn't do what they want. Ultimately we are all responsible for our choices, but we all like to be able to blame someone else, so we tend to look for biased data to corroborate our opinions.

Also it makes us feel inferior if someone else is smarter than us, or if, God forbid, we may think they have an "attitude."

Don't tell me I am wrong, because ignorance is bliss, LOL!

Sent from my HTC Magic using Tapatalk


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## Big Ray (Dec 8, 2009)

no no not talking about anyone in particular  

I agree about opinions, and different opinions are indeed needed to make this hobby better. 

but not on scientific FACTS  lol haha there cant be different opinions on Gravity


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## TBemba (Jan 11, 2010)

Big Ray said:


> how come ppl in university lectures dont fight with the prof who tries to teach them science or whatever ? lol
> 
> makes no sense ....


Well you see, first off the Professor in the university has a degree and credentials that make his statements facts (or should) But... when someone with little or no credentials gives their opinion then it is often questioned.

I am a person that will often question the prof and get into a debate (no fighting)
as to whether the prof is giving an opinion or facts and how the prof came to that conclusion. (back up your statement)

Just because you have an education does not mean you are smarter than someone that does not have an education. It does mean that you have more educated than the other person. You however may never be smarter than them.


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## Kweli (Jun 2, 2010)

Some people dont have the ability (me included) to read a scientific document and understand how to implement that into a hobby.. Sometimes i can read one and not even understand what the conclusion was


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## Big Ray (Dec 8, 2009)

TBemba said:


> Well you see, first off the Professor in the university has a degree and credentials that make his statements facts (or should) But... when someone with little or no credentials gives their opinion then it is often questioned.
> 
> I am a person that will often question the prof and get into a debate (no fighting)
> as to whether the prof is giving an opinion or facts and how the prof came to that conclusion. (back up your statement)
> ...


ohh I completely agree ! and that is where the problem comes from I think ... ppl feeling like some one is trying to LOOK smarter or ... :S which makes no sense ...

if I invented gravity, and told others, then yes, I could say I was smarter  Newton was smarter than me.

but if I LEARNED about gravity, and shared it with others and sourced Newtons work, then its the other persons insecurity thinking they are being put down ! or "FEEL" inferior lol

and Im talking about proven scientific facts here alone, like PH, gravity, and stuff like that, opinions are opinions and every one is entitled to their own, and no opinion is wrong.


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## Ciddian (Mar 15, 2006)

Tut tut... Be nice everyone.  Don't get all upset over a forum thread.


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## Big Ray (Dec 8, 2009)

you see this alot in this hobby though and its amazingly funny ! even look at RC, Dr. Randy Holmes Farley is one of the most knowledgable ppl in this hobby and he has a PhD in chemistry .... all his works are backed up by science .... 

yet you see ppl daily ARGUING with the science lol 

reminds me of an Einsteins quote :

"It is the theory that decides what can be observed.
- Albert Einstein"

so if your observations dont match the theory or the science, recheck your observations


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## Ciddian (Mar 15, 2006)

Kweli said:


> Some people dont have the ability (me included) to read a scientific document and understand how to implement that into a hobby.. Sometimes i can read one and not even understand what the conclusion was


same  ...it drives me insane.


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## Big Ray (Dec 8, 2009)

Ciddian said:


> Tut tut... Be nice everyone.  Don't get all upset over a forum thread.


oh Im not upset  it just amazes me 

but if you feel like this should be closed/moved go ahead


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## Ciddian (Mar 15, 2006)

Oohh nono.. Debate away  As long as noone is name calling or leaving upset then I am fine


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## Big Ray (Dec 8, 2009)

Kweli said:


> Some people dont have the ability (me included) to read a scientific document and understand how to implement that into a hobby.. Sometimes i can read one and not even understand what the conclusion was


that's the case with almost everyone man 

it takes me at least 3 times of reading an article or a scientific paper to just get what they are talking about  and 99.99999% of times I cant draw any conclusions before asking chemists and biologists question  but if the scientific paper goes against my observation, I double check my work before saying the science is wrong


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## 50seven (Feb 14, 2010)

If something we have observed does not seem to agree with proven science, then its time to find out why. There are so many variables in observation which can skew the facts. Physics and chemistry always behave the same because they are constant unchanging laws. If it doesn't seem to fit, dig a little deeper and there will be a logical reason why.

Hell sure am glad that gravity is not accurate 99.9& of the time, LOL!

In the information age, with so much "data" available at our fingertips, people need to take a step back and realize that there ARE absolutes. Because in the last few decades, most people believe that there are no moral/religious absolute truths, some think they can translate that into the field of science, which is stupid.

Sent from my HTC Magic using Tapatalk


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## TBemba (Jan 11, 2010)

Big Ray said:


> reminds me of an Einsteins quote :
> 
> "It is the theory that decides what can be observed.
> - Albert Einstein"
> ...


Can I use that quote? I love it 

See I read the Einstein quote totally opposite to you  recheck the Science

Benjamin Franklin, "Believe none of what you hear and half of what you see. 

I have not seen anything get nasty?


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## gucci17 (Oct 11, 2007)

lol this is funny, I just had this conversation with my old man recently. It makes me laugh...I really have to agree that sometimes people just ask questions to back up what they intend on doing. Just a way of justifying their actions. 

I can tell you that I am very open minded and have no problem admitting when I am wrong. It's just that some people feel overly egotistical when they are behind a keyboard. 

Way too many users with a PhD in fish keeping.


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## Big Ray (Dec 8, 2009)

TBemba said:


> Can I use that quote? I love it
> 
> See I read the Einstein quote totally opposite to you  recheck the Science
> 
> ...


more attention is payed to that qoute now a days, since Einstein never had the ability to test most of theories, and YEARS after he died, recently, we werre able to prove most of his theory ... at his time, observations were different lol

but he was something special


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Well, a lot of people ask questions to justify what they're doing, and don't like to hear contrary to what they wanted to do. Also, many people are pretty darn set on what they believe, and can't change in any situation.

Unfortunately for "proving things" with "science", research is often only true in a small number of very highly controlled, specific circumstances. Outside of that, it's anyone's guess 

As for rechecking your results or rechecking the science? Do both


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## Big Ray (Dec 8, 2009)

gucci17 said:


> lol this is funny, I just had this conversation with my old man recently. It makes me laugh...I really have to agree that sometimes people just ask questions to back up what they intend on doing. Just a way of justifying their actions.
> 
> I can tell you that I am very open minded and have no problem admitting when I am wrong. It's just that some people feel overly egotistical when they are behind a keyboard.
> 
> Way too many users with a PhD in fish keeping.


I do not have a PhD .... nor do I understand who you are talking about.

imagine if I posted saying Earths Gravity pulls objects towards earth.

and some next person replies saying "Nope, I jumped up the other day and I Still havent came down.... "
then most probably there is a chair or something under his feet and he has not realized it yet ! that does not make GRAVITY wrong, nor can anyone argue about gravity and how it works.

now if I answer the guy saying No, you most probablt landed on something else and he argues with me ... then thats just S....


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Funny thing about gravity is is that we know it works, but nobody knows how.


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## Big Ray (Dec 8, 2009)

ameekplec. said:


> Well, a lot of people ask questions to justify what they're doing, and don't like to hear contrary to what they wanted to do. Also, many people are pretty darn set on what they believe, and can't change in any situation.
> 
> Unfortunately for "proving things" with "science", research is often only true in a small number of very highly controlled, specific circumstances. Outside of that, it's anyone's guess
> 
> As for rechecking your results or rechecking the science? Do both


well said.

and Im mostly talking about things like PH of water ! there is a set formula on it, lol science explains it fully 

but I agree, in other cases it is not the same thing, just cause an article sais corals use amino acids, it doesn't mean we should all start dosing Amino acids (although we should  haha jks) each tank is different and there are millions and millions of variables and each tank has a different amount of amino acids in it. ...


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## TBemba (Jan 11, 2010)

ameekplec. said:


> Funny thing about gravity is is that we know it works, but nobody knows how.


Maybe its broke, we just don't know it


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## Sunstar (Jul 29, 2008)

I've come into the hobby and right now, I am determined to learn more. I will admit, I have an absolute strong dislike for numbers so if things get too numeric I'll attempt to evade. Not that I can't do numbers, I'm good with math when I want to be. I simply HATE them. 

Where things are with salt water, I am embarassed to say I barely know a lick of it what most of you know. I've been using Nano reef Parts a and b and looking at other products leave me with a WTF? Researching on the net has been utterly mind boggling. I am often getting a where do I start feeling when trying to find about a topic and Oh god, what the hell do I call it to search for it. 

So for me. Tell me what I am doing wrong, be kind about it. Forgive me for my errors. Show or tell me, the right way. I'll explain a bit about what's gone on with things last several months in my 10 gallon thread that has set me back.

As for this topic. and my observations on humans in general. 

People get mad because People strongly dislike getting caught in the wrong. I've seen it Dozens of time. You correct someone and they act like cornered animals. It's embarassment and possibly shame. There are a sort of person out there who can't stand being told they are wrong. Some people are of the mind set that they are always right.

I am not sure where they get this sort of omnipotent concept that they are, unless it creeps in from childhood where they are told and treated as if they could do no wrong. Possible. Or that some people are just wired that way. Other people are just very very smart and they might accidently learn the wrong way from the wrong source and find themselves in a situation that is highly embarassing. 

People in school are likely learning the stuff new. Professors who teach SHOULD know what they are talking about and have learned the subject in every way possible. Arguments in Lectures could be of the debate sort which is usually quite an interesting form of argument. People who insist their way is the right way, who argue with People who insist their way is the right way will end up in heated arguments in which one of the side should simply say, we need to agree to disagree. Then get on with life-or the subject.

Prove it? Only if you can Prove that it can't. 

Scientific studies does not equal absolute proof. Such as getting cancer from eating french fries. What it doesn't say is you need to eat a crap-tonne of French fries every day to get cancer and then that is going to be the absolute least of your health concerns. 

that's my 34 cents.


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## Big Ray (Dec 8, 2009)

those are some good points, and worth well more than 34 cents  

I personally enjoy it if someone sais Im wrong about something and provides reasoning and scientific papers regarding it. cause I will learn that way  often in university I would ask something I knwo is wrong so they can explain to be the correct way or definition  you have to be wrong once to learn 

I know what you mean about scientific papers and I cant agree more (Im a smoker so u know why  ) but I mean more about the scientific facts, like gravity, like PH, and alot more ... we base everything else on these facts and them being right


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## marblerye (Jul 25, 2010)

Big Ray said:


> do ppl get so pissed when they learn something new ?
> 
> its my understanding that if you ask a question online, u want the answer for it ! then why do ppl loose their ..... when the correct answer is not what they thought !!
> 
> I know its a hobby, but those who dont want to learn it or understand it, wont be asking questions online right ?


i used to get pissed off when i read the condescending answers people gave on AP or when i asked something on AP and got an obnoxious answer from ajx... *THIS QUESTION HAS ALREADY BEEN ASKED THEREFORE I WON'T WASTE MY TIME ANSWERING IT. BE A GOOD BOY AND USE THE SEARCH FUNCTION BECAUSE IT SHOULD BE YOUR BEST FRIEND!*

looking back he was right about using the search, but his approach to reprimanding me wasn't very nice. it was my first and last post on AP; now i don't bother joining in on any of the conversations even if i know i can contribute because of this one incident. but it was a LONG time ago and i was new to the hobby; what right does he have to make me feel bad for being new...

i see it all the time here and i'm sure almost everyone has been in that same situation; when you're new to the hobby, you're excited you are on the right track but you don't know what to do first, you just want to share your story with other people in order to not only point you in the right direction but encourage you as well. you feel like you can take on the world, but you also want to be careful not to make a mistake either so you post a question. these people are kind enough to include everyone on their own journey to the progression of their tank so people who tag along and offer harsh criticism aren't being too kind. this forum, i must applaud for being a heck of a lot more user-friendly than other forums . within the last couple months on gtaa i've noticed so many people start up new tanks, and they've been asking questions galore which is perfectly fine but when someone who either had answered that question many times or just wants to sound like a know-it-all starts to sound like a jack*** for no apparent reason it's kind of a buzz kill. they seek knowledge rather than being put down or told they are completely wrong. not only can people be intimidating towards new members, but sometimes i read people say something constructive but their approach is terrible like;

*Q; i'm new here and this is my first post. i'm having a GHA and cyano problem. i'm using dechlorinated tap water to mix my salt. i've read that people use ro/di water and it helps solve this problem; should i do this too?*

_A; you will ALWAYS have GHA and cyano issues if you use tap water. get an ro/di unit._

it's hard to see it to some but this answer is kinda rude.. and there is virtually NO science to back up the person's answer because i've read that MANY people still use tap water and haven't ever had any GHA or cyano problems which you can probably conclude it is some other underlying factor causing the GHA/cyano problem. meanwhile i switched over to ro/di water and it didn't seem to help at all in the beginning. the answer to use ro/di water isn't definitive so using words like ALWAYS shouldn't be used. sure ro/di water may HELP, but it may or may not SOLVE the problem. besides, what the person is probably asking is - _i've got these problems and i'm looking to solve it and i've done some research so i'm not a total goof, but i want some clarification on whether or not an ro/di unit is *absolutely neccessary* before i go out and fork out a few hundred bucks_. what i'm getting at is answering the question while being politically correct is ideal on forums but doing so in a rude manner is where i see people getting mad.

not only that but forums are free for people to use. sometimes people chime in with their OPINIONS on an issue based on their own experience and it often takes a few people to reach a conclusion which is exactly how forums should be used. sometimes opinions conflict, which is okay too but all the better because there may be more than one answer depending on the situation. sometimes we missed something and are corrected by others which would only serve to benefit everyone reading the thread but when someone jumps in to correct someone else, do so nicely rather than being a jack*** about it. afterall, no one person can know absolutely EVERYTHING there is to know about this hobby because even the most experienced hobbyist gets bubble algae right? no one or their tank is perfect.

this is my own opinion on the matter and i fully understand that people may or may not agree with me which is fine; i can accept that. i just wanted to chime in and say the approach to answering the question can surely lighten the tension if there is any at all.. afterall there are two ways to telling your bestfriend they have a BO problem and they would probably appreciate the nicer way.


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## Big Ray (Dec 8, 2009)

haha please read the PH thread on the begginers circle on freshwater forums here  LOL 

I was rude, but I had enough of little stupid kids running their mouth about stuff they have NO IDEA !!


one guy got dizy reading the equation !!! LOL haha makes you think if he should be allowed to log in to the world wide web ..


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## Big Ray (Dec 8, 2009)

marblerye said:


> i used to get pissed off when i read the condescending answers people gave on AP or when i asked something on AP and got an obnoxious answer from ajx... *THIS QUESTION HAS ALREADY BEEN ASKED THEREFORE I WON'T WASTE MY TIME ANSWERING IT. BE A GOOD BOY AND USE THE SEARCH FUNCTION BECAUSE IT SHOULD BE YOUR BEST FRIEND!*
> 
> looking back he was right about using the search, but his approach to reprimanding me wasn't very nice. it was my first and last post on AP; now i don't bother joining in on any of the conversations even if i know i can contribute because of this one incident. but it was a LONG time ago and i was new to the hobby; what right does he have to make me feel bad for being new...
> 
> ...


way too long man ! lol

but reading the first couple lines, Im not talking about opinion and using or not using RO/DI Water IS indeed opinion. ...
but AP .... I agree lol they are just "funny" sometimes lol even funnier how some users there use Zeovit, and believe Zeovit doesnt work lol makes u wonder why they are using it.

I am talking about science.

fro example, TDS zero means H20, and nothing else, so if one decides to argue with that fact, then that person is indeed stupid.


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## Big Ray (Dec 8, 2009)

what it comes down to is that everyone is good at something .

I am not an artist, so I Will NOT and can not comment on a painting if I find it ugly or not artistic, I need to not talk, cause I Am not an artist ! and if I do comment, I am indeed stupid and an idiot.

those Idiots on freshwater forum just amaze me ! he literally said he does not get the formula, so why not keep that mouth closed and try to learn it ? LOL why do others blame me for their stupidity LOL I didnt make science hard ... maybe they smoked too much ....


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## Ciddian (Mar 15, 2006)

No name calling. You can disagree with someone without insulting them. lol

Heeyy wtf. I got all lost with your formula too big ray. Don't be so mean D:


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## Big Ray (Dec 8, 2009)

Ciddian said:


> No name calling. You can disagree with someone without insulting them. lol
> 
> Heeyy wtf. I got all lost with your formula too big ray. Don't be so mean D:


apologies, but you didnt say its wrong 

there are alot I dont understand neither, but I dont say its wrong  many million dollar paintings look lame to me, but I blame myself for not seeing the art in it cause I am not an artist 

and it is not my formula, I posted the link on the PH thread


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## ajdelosr (Jul 11, 2010)

I think everything should be taken with a grain of salt... hehe... get it? grain of salt?

But seriously, I think every opinion has merit it's an opinion. But the problem lies in that our scientific "facts" are not necessarily presented properly eg all the millions of stimuli that could affect the results, even though a marine aquarium is in a 'controlled' environment the items being brought into that environment are from different sources. It all comes down to not taking everything personal and discrediting someone.

I find this with text messages and emails as well that people complain about the "tone" in which people reply to them. It's written word that you read with no emotional implications so it's how you read it.


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## Big Ray (Dec 8, 2009)

ajdelosr said:


> I think everything should be taken with a grain of salt... hehe... get it? grain of salt?
> 
> But seriously, I think every opinion has merit it's an opinion. But the problem lies in that our scientific "facts" are not necessarily presented properly eg all the millions of stimuli that could affect the results, even though a marine aquarium is in a 'controlled' environment the items being brought into that environment are from different sources. It all comes down to not taking everything personal and discrediting someone.
> 
> I find this with text messages and emails as well that people complain about the "tone" in which people reply to them. It's written word that you read with no emotional implications so it's how you read it.


hahah yap ...

what got me worked up was a formula which I posted, for measuring the equilibrium PH ! and everyone commenting saying that is wrong, cause they dont understand it ! LOL there is just no opinions involved in Equilibrium PH  the phrase "PH" is defined by that formula haha


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## gucci17 (Oct 11, 2007)

I just went back to that thread...looks like I missed out on a lot of action lol.

j/k

Way I see things is, I soak it all in and sort out all the BS afterwords.


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## aquanutt (Aug 27, 2010)

Sounds very stupid,
why would someone get pissed when they are getting help to do something right way...

anywayz, I love all the answers and all the help I get from you guys!
Thanks to all of you, my tank is looking better and better very day...

cheers


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## gucci17 (Oct 11, 2007)

aquanutt said:


> Sounds very stupid,
> why would someone get pissed when they are getting help to do something right way...
> 
> anywayz, I love all the answers and all the help I get from you guys!
> ...


I don't understand either...to me, it's free schooling.


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## Dax (Sep 29, 2010)

Just read the whole thread. I see everyone got in on the action so I just feel compelled to throw something in.

BigRay, you are one of the more knowledgeable people i have communicated with and honestly appreciate the fact that you can back up every one of your answers with a decent explanation or proof. People that express their opinions without knowledge are usually the ones that don't appreciate being corrected and feel compelled to argue. Now you can change your approach, but that is really going to happen is it? Continue doing what you do and try not to get into an uninformed banter with anyone. I've read a lot of your posts and see a bit of that. Just a waste of your time.

Next time lets just take it into the parking lot. lol 
End of discussion!!


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## Kweli (Jun 2, 2010)

What really boggles my mind is....

When you spin a glass in your hand (filled with liquid and ice) the ice doesnt rotate with it....


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## Big Ray (Dec 8, 2009)

Hahahah lol 

Dax, thank you and you have a good point ... I post my info and .. who cares if they wanna read it or not or to disagree with it or not .. lol


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## gucci17 (Oct 11, 2007)

Dax said:


> Just read the whole thread. I see everyone got in on the action so I just feel compelled to throw something in.
> 
> BigRay, you are one of the more knowledgeable people i have communicated with and honestly appreciate the fact that you can back up every one of your answers with a decent explanation or proof. People that express their opinions without knowledge are usually the ones that don't appreciate being corrected and feel compelled to argue. Now you can change your approach, but that is really going to happen is it? Continue doing what you do and try not to get into an uninformed banter with anyone. I've read a lot of your posts and see a bit of that. Just a waste of your time.
> 
> ...


I also appreciate all that BR has contributed to this forum. Not to mention, all the information I take from him .

I agree, don't waste your time and walk away. I had to do the same to another forum after I realized it's just not worth my time. What's worse was the 'core' group of members all back each other up so anyone with an opinion gets ganged up on because that's just not how they roll.


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## ChefMark (Oct 23, 2010)

ajdelosr said:


> I think everything should be taken with a grain of salt... hehe... get it? grain of salt?
> 
> But seriously, I think every opinion has merit it's an opinion. But the problem lies in that our scientific "facts" are not necessarily presented properly eg all the millions of stimuli that could affect the results, even though a marine aquarium is in a 'controlled' environment the items being brought into that environment are from different sources. It all comes down to not taking everything personal and discrediting someone.
> 
> I find this with text messages and emails as well that people complain about the "tone" in which people reply to them. It's written word that you read with no emotional implications so it's how you read it.


Thats how I go . I find alot of Scientific so called facts are some what diff from what article you read. I also Try to take everything and sort through it myself. Every system is diff so I have herd so I try to find what works for me best. This might not always work for some one else.


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## Dax (Sep 29, 2010)

If anyone hassles you, next time try one of these: 

I see you’ve set aside this special time to humiliate yourself in public. 
I’ll try being nicer if you’ll try being smarter. 
I like you. You remind me of when I was young and stupid. 
Thank you. We’re all refreshed and challenged by your unique point of view. 
Any connection between your reality and mine is purely coincidental. 
If I throw a stick, will you leave ? 
Imagine this ; I will win and you will lose. Do we need to go on ?
I don’t know what your problem is, but I’ll bet it’s hard to pronounce. 
I can see your point, but I still think you’re full of sh*t. 
I’m really easy to get along with once you people learn to see it my way.


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## KevD (Mar 2, 2008)

Shouldn't it be pH instead of PH? 

Best to keep an open mind as some science is flawed since it's old, written by graduate students and/or people attempting to justify their own theories


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## Big Ray (Dec 8, 2009)

I assume you double check gravity daily right ? In case newton just wanted to explain why he ate the apple that "dropped" on his head ? LOL
I swear the apple came to me !!!! Haha


Anyways do a search on ph ... It's a man made term measuring acidity of water and there is a formula which defines it. If you feel like it's wrong please challenge it, you define ph  but don't say it's wrong cause I don't get it ! They asked for ph formula and I shared LOL same formula that all ph calculators use, and the formula that defines ph ...


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## Big Ray (Dec 8, 2009)

ChefMark said:


> Thats how I go . I find alot of Scientific so called facts are some what diff from what article you read. I also Try to take everything and sort through it myself. Every system is diff so I have herd so I try to find what works for me best. This might not always work for some one else.


You are mistaking a scientific facts with ones opinion on fish keeping !!

Meaning of ph is always the same and a fact. Articles are written based on this facts. They do not go against it . Although they may recommend different ph values, they are all pointing to the same ph scale.


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

Ray,

Sometimes it isn't what you say, but how you say it that gets people all bent out of shape.


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## waj8 (Jun 30, 2010)

The problem here is that Big Ray is making incorrect statements and is using jargon in order to appear to have a good understanding of chemistry. This is in a beginners thread on pH. Then on top of that, he is very patronizing and is in fact still calling people stupid for disagreeing with him. It's just confusing things with pointless detail for no reason. Meanwhile, the original question remains unanswered.


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## marblerye (Jul 25, 2010)

waj8 said:


> The problem here is that Big Ray is making incorrect statements and is using jargon in order to appear to have a good understanding of chemistry. This is in a beginners thread on pH. Then on top of that, he is very patronizing and is in fact still calling people stupid for disagreeing with him. It's just confusing things with pointless detail for no reason. Meanwhile, the original question remains unanswered.


+1,000,000
LOL i like the way you think! we should hang out; we'd be bestfriends for sure.. lol


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## ChefMark (Oct 23, 2010)

Big Ray said:


> You are mistaking a scientific facts with ones opinion on fish keeping !!
> 
> Meaning of ph is always the same and a fact. Articles are written based on this facts. They do not go against it . Although they may recommend different ph values, they are all pointing to the same ph scale.


Big Ray I dont see anywhere in my post talking about ph. In fact I was not talking about ph at all. May I ask why you felt to just call me out ?
I have noticed you go around this forum and seem to back talk alot of people for no reason. 
If you think that all facts out there about keeping a saltwater tank are then same then please show me because this is not the case. Also lets not forget that things in this hobby are every changing as we understand more about the ocean. We know very little about it. 
You seem like you like to bully those that are new and this is not cool.


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## marblerye (Jul 25, 2010)

ChefMark said:


> Big Ray I dont see anywhere in my post talking about ph. In fact I was not talking about ph at all. May I ask why you felt to just call me out ?
> I have noticed you go around this forum and seem to back talk alot of people for no reason.
> If you think that all facts out there about keeping a saltwater tank are then same then please show me because this is not the case. Also lets not forget that things in this hobby are every changing as we understand more about the ocean. We know very little about it.
> You seem like you like to bully those that are new and this is not cool.


+1
THANK YOU! 
Now that it is clear as night and day, let us PLEASE draw this thread to a conclusion as there will only be blood after this..


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## KeMo (Sep 3, 2010)

I am glad others feel the way I do too. 
My good buddy bigR


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## Ciddian (Mar 15, 2006)

Yes everyone had their say? Awesome. No more Bs, petty crap on Gta from now on 

Best not to flash your big pretty ego's. Its really a turn off. IMHO. Of course my comment doesn't apply to everyone.

On Gtaa, your number one goal is to be helpful and friendly while doing it. If the OP or other posters don't exactly agree, *well that is fine*. Wash your hands and go have a coffee. Be the bigger man.

Having a friendly chat about PH is also fine but this doesn't seem to be it? Why on earth do I have to even write this out?

Big Ray.. I would take a step back and look at your posts, the tone of it. Hell you even pissed me off without me even posting in the darn thread. Noone is better than anyone else here. *Period.*

If anyone here wants a snob fish forum, then please go find one. I am sure there are a few out there. But if you want to be a part of the Gtaa you need to remember we are not here to figure out who is the king of the castle for heavens sakes.


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## Big Ray (Dec 8, 2009)

*Clarification *

Please close this thread to avoid further .... lol

for those who can understand, please read :

once again, you can disagree with my OPINIONs, and that is fine, it could be wrong and I agree 100% 

once again for ppl like chefmark ... . PH scale is a FACT and I used that as an EXAMPLE. you sure did not ask about it, but I used an example to illustrate my point  PH scale is a FACT, the PH value that ppl ADVICE YOU are OPINIONS and can be wrong 

there are no straight forward way of keeping saltwater tank, its all opinions, but what KH REPRESENTS is a fact,(I AM USING KH AS AN EXAMPLE HERE) the value of it and what it should be kept at is OPINION.

I really hope you guys can now tell apart OPINION from FACTS.

my opinions are mine and could be wrong, and PLEASE do call me on those. ppls opinions differ, and that is the beauty of this hobby, but ACIDITY of water (USING EXAMPLES !) (PH) is not my opinion  PH scale is a scientific fact 

also, I have to agree that it is often hard to tell apart FACTS from OPINIONS.

chefmark has a GREAT point : 
"If you think that all facts out there about keeping a saltwater tank are then same then please show me because this is not the case. Also lets not forget that things in this hobby are every changing as we understand more about the ocean. We know very little about it. "
and I agree 100%, hence why I made this thread to clarify it, so I will use another example. 
TEMP. in Celsius is an international standard, it is a fact, we all use the same scale. TEMP required or the best TEMP to keep a reef tank at is OPINION  and to add to his point we know of 10% of world oceans only lol so yes, you are correct. and I am not saying I know how Oceans work, I said I know the temp scale, the PH scale  
ahahh

Waj8:
"The problem here is that Big Ray is making incorrect statements and is using jargon in order to appear to have a good understanding of chemistry. "
can you PLEASE point out how the Equation I got from one of the top chemists on PH is wrong ? and how am I trying to show off by sharing info ? if I was showing off, I would have said hey ppl, I made this equation  haha
incorrect statement ? call me on it, PLEASE post an example.

chris S, you are right and perhaps it is my English or online tone or what ever ... lol I would LOVE it if ppl could point out the wrong info I have posted.

anyways, at the end, I TRY to back up every single one of my posts with a paper, or a scientific formula or ... so situations like THIS wont happen, but I guess I failed  haha too many ppl's Ego was broken I guess hence the need to bash me lol and its funny how kids like KEMO, advice ppl on what lighting to get while he has a thread asking about lighting LOL

sorry for all the trouble , it was quite funny to me and apologies if I pissed anyone off or pissed on any-ones Ego who saw the need to say Big ray doesnt know what he is talking about  hahaa

isnt it funny though ? I remember chris last month fighting with me saying there is no po4 buffering, I said there is and then he asked MR. Wilson and found out it is, but still went ahead and called me names ? lol seems like the less ppl know, the more they like to bash me or call me wrong ?

lol

anyways ....  thanks for those who have helped me out. and sorry to those who I TRIED to help out (supposedly with wrong info lol )


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## KeMo (Sep 3, 2010)

Kids Like KeMo. Hmm I am a 30 Year old member of the Canadian Forces.
Dont Go there Ray. Really . You Dont Know What The F I have been through.


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## Ciddian (Mar 15, 2006)

Hi Big Ray,

Please do not create multiple accounts on a topic I already closed. It isnt very respectful IMHO.

I am going to merge this with your other closed topic.

Btw why would you say things like


> call me on it, PLEASE post an example.


 but ask me right at the top there to close this thread? 

Take this to PM from now on. If not, I'll hand out a week suspension. I have no patience for bs threads like this.


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