# Tired of fighting Chronic Ich



## davec (Jan 19, 2010)

26 gallon tank
16 cardinals
6 rummy nose
3 cories
1 pleco
planted tank

I've been battling ich since early March. I think the Rummies brought them into the tank. I have lost no fish except my one otocat (and it didn't have Ich).

I've use Copper Sulfate (Aquarisol) which did nothing but perhaps keep it at bay. I've use 3 bottles of Ich Guard II which helps temporarily but as soon as I stop using it the Ich comes back. The Rummies I think have gotten over it but the Cardinals get more of the spots after I stop using the Ich Guard II. I treated the tank as per instructions and each bottle lasts for about 4 days. I treated for 4 days and then there was a week break since I didn't have time to get back to the LFS before I could get 2 more bottles and I treated for 8 days straight with temp at 84 F. I asked one of the more knowledgeable guys at big als and he told me that if the ich hasn't cleared up with 3 bottles of Ich Guard II and the fish are still alive and eating then don't bother treating and the fish will get better on their own. So I've stopped treating for about a week now did a 40% water change 5 days ago but the ick is coming back again (mind you I forgot to plug in the heater after the water change so the temp did drop down to 76 F).

I'm tempted to try a laissez faire approach and see if they will survive on their own.

Any other suggestions?

How badly will the other Ich treatments stain my silicone and my transparent plastic intake pipe? (ie will the more potent treatments like malachite green definitely cause staining or may cause staining?) Perhaps I should buy some more Aquari sol to help control the Ich and hope the fish's immunity will eventually overcome the Ich?


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## trailblazer295 (Mar 7, 2010)

You may need to turn the heat up a bit more but someone more experienced will chime in.


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## BillD (Jun 5, 2006)

If I remember correctly, the magic number is 86F for 2 weeks.


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## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

Its 84 and its about 3 or 4 days. If you keep getting ich you're reintroducing it and causing it with something you're doing.

It probably isn't ich. There's a white cyst thing thats a bit bigger and sparse and it happens due to excess organics. It also is sensitive to copper and will disappear or reduce in the presence of copper. The solution to it is extremely clean water. 

I seriously doubt that any strain of ich you're going to encounter in Toronto can tolerate 84 for 8 days. 

Ich is a very very wussy parasite. It isn't tolerant enough to take all the crapp you've thrown at it.


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

I'm inclined to agree with AquariAM here. What sort of filtration are you using?

What is your water change regime? Have you been testing for ammonia/nitrites/nitrates?


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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

Well, I am not surprise if it's ick. The way you treat it is all wrong.
You are supposed to treat it until there is no more spots on all the fish and then treat it for another 7 days before you stop.
There is only one stage in an ick life cycle that you can kill them. That is the free swimming stage (if I remember correctly). They are perfectly safe from the treatment in their other stage.
So what happened is that you just managed to kill some of them and then stop the treatment, which allow the ick to come back in full force. Then you treat it again, but still not long enough.
Some form of icks have a slower cycle and can last up to 8 - 10 days (I call them the supper ick). That means you have to treat them for at least 20 days.
This is especially true when you are using the mild form of medication.
You might want to consider using Quick Cure. It's much more lethal and carcinogenic and will definately turn your tank silicon blue.
All these are still base on the assumption that you jack up your temperature to speed up the Ick's life cycle. If you have it at a cooler temperature, it may even take longer.
Also, adding 1 tblspoon of salt (epson salt or sea salt) for every 10 gallons of water and jacking up the temperature is another natural remedy that is widely used. But this method some times end up killing off some of the weaker fish. This is because they have to weather thru the outbreak before everything gets better.

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## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

can you post a picture of an infected fish please


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## bae (May 11, 2007)

Zebrapl3co is right. You can only kill ich at one stage of the life cycle. The parasite drops off the fish, settles to the bottom, divides into thousands of infective forms, which then swim around until they find a fish. Only the infective form is susceptible to drugs. So you have to keep on treating after all the spots are off the fish, until all the infective stage have been released and killed.

The best treatment for ich is malachite green and formalin. It won't stain your silicone like methylene blue will. Read the label to make sure that's what you're getting, and follow the instructions.


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## TBemba (Jan 11, 2010)

Zebrapl3co said:


> Well, I am not surprise if it's ick. The way you treat it is all wrong.
> All these are still base on the assumption that you jack up your temperature to speed up the Ick's life cycle.
> Also, adding 1 tblspoon of salt for every 10 gallons of water and jacking up the temperature is another natural remedy that is widely used. But this method some times end up killing off some of the weaker fish. This is because they have to weather thru the outbreak before everything gets better.


I like this method best Use Epsom salt (cheap at your local drug store)
Leave the lights off feed them every 2nd day but *very *light. Temp 86. Do a large water change before medicating and try matching the temp of the tank and add prime to water.

Make sure you do not have Carbon in your filter.

After 2 weeks and there is no signs of ick do a major water change 50% lightly clean your filter slowly over the next week drop your temp to 82 - 84

Why are you turning off your heater to do a water change? If submersible have it low enough that it ever touches air. If not then lower it by hand while lowing the water. If a hang on jobby change 10 - 20% a week replace when getting lower.

I recommend beginners to the hobby change no more than 20% of the tank water every week. Also when changing your water you can siphon a bucket and then replace a bucket straight from the tap with Water conditioner added of course (make sure the water is close to the same temp (not doing this kills fish) the signs are fish doing the *swirl of death* any time up to the next day. If your fish dies within the next day of a water change then you did something wrong.

Sorry for my rant 

After the last water change and your fish are looking good start feeding every other day. I really don't thing adult fish need to be feed every day. I also think most people over feed fish then have ever under feed unless you are not interested in the hobby.

Everything should be good and the hobby will start being enjoyable. Problem is then you start thinking about more tanks because you start to acquire fish then replace fish


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## Philip.Chan.92 (Apr 25, 2010)

Quarantine w/e is left then soak all your old tank stuff, nets and anything that comes in contact with the tank water in a warm mild bleach solution (soak for a few hours) and rinse it extremely well. Then let everything dry COMPLETELY, the bleach would have killed all biological organisms in the tank and drying it out would kill ICH and most other water-borne parasites and diseases. After this, recycle your tank and when the water is ready, reintroduce your water. This should be used as a last resort but this situation does seem to be driving you up a wall.


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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

TBemba said:


> I like this method best Use Epsom salt (cheap at your local drug store) ...


Opss, thanks for clearifying that. Never use table salt, use Epsom salt or sea salt that doesn't have any clog free agent in it.

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## mojo911 (Jan 25, 2010)

I was also battling ich for about a month w/o any results. Stupid parasites kept reappearing causing me a lot of grief. I first started with the heat and salt method for about 2-3 weeks then switched to using API ich medication as directed... again no results. I lost 10 cardinal tetras, 1 rasbora, 2 rams and maybe more during this time. What puzzled me was that all sources stated that ich isn't suppose to be able to survive temperatures above 86 but here it was, alive and well for a little over a month. 

What finally worked for me was to drain my tank and leave as little water as I can comfortably fit my fish in. This was about 8-10 inches of water in a 20 gal. Small filter, airstone, and heater @ 86 and quickly got good results. I never saw re-occuring ich again. I think the secret was that the smaller area gave me really consistant temperatures and no chance for the parasites to survive in cooler parts of the water. All my problems solved w/o salt or meds, just heat alone. I hope this helps you out.


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## Steeners (Mar 28, 2010)

My tetras started to get spots once I added some corys and plecos to my tank without quarantining (big mistake, but I learned) I would have to agree with the heating method, leaving the tank at 86. I had left mine for about a week but they still had spots. They were sparse and a little larger (probably not ich). I kept the water very clean for 3 days straight by doing daily water changes and that seemed to solve the problem. You may not have ich but a picture should help.
It's been about two to three weeks since then and I have not seen any spots on the fish. 
I hope this helps.


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## Holidays (Apr 18, 2010)

don't unplug the heater, even if the weather is hot. set the temp at 85, cardinals like warm water anyway. these fish are tank bred they don't really have high tolerance to temp change. water change should help, I wouldn't put anymore medicine. let them be for about 2-3 weeks.


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## wonivek (May 19, 2010)

If you treat with Malachite Green or some other kind of similar product it's important to avoid light (even indirect sunlight) as it is a catalsyt for the breakdown of the product (as soon as a couple hours).

Someone with more experience feel free to chime in.


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## KhuliLoachFan (Mar 8, 2008)

Methylene blue (a classic in the hobby) is also no longer sold in stores, and might not be legal to sell in Ontario at pet stores anymore. 

W


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## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

Its not ich. Once again. Velvet or bacterial cysts perhaps.


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## davec (Jan 19, 2010)

Thanks for the input guys. I've had the heater cranked to max. It only hit 86F but with the recent warmer weather and subsequently the house being warmer the temp has now hit 88F and all the fish are still alive and accounted for .The ich seems to have cleared or at the very least it has improved. I did not add anymore chemicals since I haven't had the chance to get out to the LFS. I don't have any doubt that it was/is Ich however, common things being common.


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## Philip.Chan.92 (Apr 25, 2010)

ICH hits all fish owners at some point or another, it's like chicken pox lol. It's a good learning experience and teaches everyone to have medicines on hand as well as teaching us to keep a close eye on the conditions of our fish to ensure health. You'll pull out of this, perseverance is the key


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## davec (Jan 19, 2010)

*Fyi*

Ich has not come back. Heat did the trick. The Cardinals Rummies Cories and plecos are doing well. Just added some gold rams from Frank's they're gorgeous. Makes me want to buy a bigger tank. Looking at some tanks from aqua inspirations


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