# Dirtied tank creating bubbles - how long?



## Exile90 (Aug 28, 2011)

Background:
10G with 1" of Miracle Gro Organic topped with 1" of Eco-Complete under 24W T5HO.
Plants include 2 types of Crypts, Dwarf Sag, Ludwigia Repens and lonely Amazon Sword. Crypts spread like weeds in about a week after planting and Dwarf Sag just started to spread recently. 

How long should a dirtied tank create bubbles from the soil? I've set mine up back in November and it's still creating bubbles from under the gravel. I have MTS to get some movement in the gravel. Every week I poke or press the the gravel to release the bubbles but there is still a lot of build up, especially under the Crypts.


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

Sounds like you are doing everything right, I am curious of what could be happening. Are you sure its from the substrate and not just the plants pearling?


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## TorontoPlantMan (Aug 16, 2013)

Exile90 said:


> Background:
> 10G with 1" of Miracle Gro Organic topped with 1" of Eco-Complete under 24W T5HO.
> Plants include 2 types of Crypts, Dwarf Sag, Ludwigia Repens and lonely Amazon Sword. Crypts spread like weeds in about a week after planting and Dwarf Sag just started to spread recently.
> 
> How long should a dirtied tank create bubbles from the soil? I've set mine up back in November and it's still creating bubbles from under the gravel. I have MTS to get some movement in the gravel. Every week I poke or press the the gravel to release the bubbles but there is still a lot of build up, especially under the Crypts.


MGOPS has far too much wood chips and other useless stuff which can create anaerobic conditions under the substrate. All my tanks are dirted but with mineralized top soil and not MGOPS as I had to learn the hard way with burnt roots and rhizomes. The bubbles will never stop, also do you notice that the bubbles smell like rotten eggs? next time you see a bubble come up put your face over it once it hits the surface and you'll see what I mean, if thats the case then it's already turning anaerobic and I'd suggest tearing it down to save yourself from future problems.


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## laurahmm (Apr 1, 2010)

I would verify that they are anaerobic first prior to doing anything so drastic. I set up a new tank and I had trapped air bubbles underneath my gravel for some time. However, they werent anaerobic, just trapped air bubbles. My other tank which was developing anaerobic bubbles, all I did was add mts snails and I also stirred up the gravel to get the trapped bubbles out. I was worried they would be toxic to my fish but my fish were still fine after I stirred out the bubbles. I"m not saying yours will be if they are indeed anaerobic bubbles, but it seems like your bubbles could just be caught air bubbles from a new tank setup. 

Laura


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

when I have to remove a large number of plants from my main tank, I get lots of gas bubbles coming up and I do a 50 percent wc right away, in the past I didn't do a wc and lost a few fish each time.


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## Exile90 (Aug 28, 2011)

TorontoPlantMan said:


> MGOPS has far too much wood chips and other useless stuff which can create anaerobic conditions under the substrate. All my tanks are dirted but with mineralized top soil and not MGOPS as I had to learn the hard way with burnt roots and rhizomes. The bubbles will never stop, also do you notice that the bubbles smell like rotten eggs? next time you see a bubble come up put your face over it once it hits the surface and you'll see what I mean, if thats the case then it's already turning anaerobic and I'd suggest tearing it down to save yourself from future problems.


Unfortunately the bubbles do smell like rotten eggs.  
The fish seems fine but I did notice few dead RCS over the last few months.

Living in a condo I'm not really able to mineralize the soil for the tank.  Soo.. I guess I'm screwed


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

Exile90 said:


> Unfortunately the bubbles do smell like rotten eggs.
> The fish seems fine but I did notice few dead RCS over the last few months.
> 
> Living in a condo I'm not really able to mineralize the soil for the tank.  Soo.. I guess I'm screwed


Not necessarily.

You have trumpet snails to aerate the substrate, which is already a plus. The more rooted plants you have, the less anaerobic your substrate will be. Crypts are not fast growers, but the amazon sword is a heavy root feeder. You can also add some vallisneria, those grow extremely quickly and have huge root systems.


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## Exile90 (Aug 28, 2011)

Thanks everyone for response. I guess I'll keep poking the gravel and get more plants.


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## TorontoPlantMan (Aug 16, 2013)

Exile90 said:


> Thanks everyone for response. I guess I'll keep poking the gravel and get more plants.


Be careful when poking that you don't bring up too much excess organic matter in the process. I didn't find poking to be all that useful in my opinion and I found something that works a bit better.

I'd suggest emptying the tank a bit so you're left with roughly 70% water, then take your hand and slowly begin to press down on the substrate, it'll release the gas at a much faster rate the poking and you won't get dirt/organic matter coming up. Its a bit harder to flatten the substrate with a lot of plants but try your best, in areas you cannot get then just poke.

I also realize that others are saying that you'll be okay but again from my experience using MGOPS when it wasn't mineralized and strained to remove the wood whips is if you have the rotten egg smell then you have a problem and need to take care of it now as opposed to later. In my situation I remember one sunday afternoon I just emptied the tank, kept 15 gallons of the tank water and then removed the entire substrate and started fresh. about 3-4 hours later I was done, fish were back in and everything was fine, no deaths or anything.

Mineralizing soil is very possible in a condo as I lived downtown in a small condo and did it just fine. Also try posting a thread on the forum seeing if anyone happens to have any mineralized soil, I know I myself keep mineralized soil on hand all the time in the event I feel like setting up a new tank.

Lastly, if you do decide to re-do your tank in the future, attached are some pictures of what I would recommend doing. I couldn't find the rest of the pictures but you basically fill in the middle with the mineralized soil and then cap it with the black sand or substrate of your choice. Here is a list of the materials I used

- Fluorite Black Sand
- Fluorite Red
- Fluorite Dark
- Natural chunks of red clay from the badlands
- Aragonite sand 
- Mineralized MGOPS with added chunks of clay, and fluorite red.

The outer wall is fluorite dark, the bottom is clay dust, aragonite and then a layer of the fluorite red was added, then the soil mixture, then all capped with fluorite black sand. My reasoning behind choosing the substrates was based upon the needs of specific Cryptocoryne's that I have in my tank. The fluorite red is super high in iron, black sand super high in calcium, and the other additives are self explanatory.

Goodluck with your tank and keep us posted.


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## Kimchi24 (Mar 22, 2013)

TorontoPlantMan said:


> Be careful when poking that you don't bring up too much excess organic matter in the process. I didn't find poking to be all that useful in my opinion and I found something that works a bit better.
> 
> I'd suggest emptying the tank a bit so you're left with roughly 70% water, then take your hand and slowly begin to press down on the substrate, it'll release the gas at a much faster rate the poking and you won't get dirt/organic matter coming up. Its a bit harder to flatten the substrate with a lot of plants but try your best, in areas you cannot get then just poke.
> 
> ...


I feel like that is too much. And as a guy who moves his plants around all the time, layered substrates became the bane of my existence. so, now I do only fluorite black sand. Its easy to plant with, looks good, and has (from what im told) clay to provide iron anywho. In my opinion, one substrate and dosing works fine.


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## TorontoPlantMan (Aug 16, 2013)

Kimchi24 said:


> I feel like that is too much. And as a guy who moves his plants around all the time, layered substrates became the bane of my existence. so, now I do only fluorite black sand. Its easy to plant with, looks good, and has (from what im told) clay to provide iron anywho. In my opinion, one substrate and dosing works fine.


To each his own but with my method all you need to dose is potassium occasionally as needed. With a large enough layer of sand there is no disturbance of the other layers.


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

Kimchi24 said:


> I feel like that is too much. And as a guy who moves his plants around all the time, layered substrates became the bane of my existence. so, now I do only fluorite black sand. Its easy to plant with, looks good, and has (from what im told) clay to provide iron anywho. In my opinion, one substrate and dosing works fine.


Yup, layered substrate can be a real pain for those of us who like to move plants around. However, some of us don't like dosing either. Personally, I don't like the idea of spending money on fertilizers, or putting them into my tank for that matter, and I don't like doing lots of water changes so EI is out.

It's all give-and-take. There are a lot of options in this hobby, and each have their own pros and cons. That's the fun part though, experimenting and coming up with your own unique way of doing things.


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