# To get a feel of demand for F3 altum angels



## montelovers (Mar 26, 2009)

*To get a feel of demand for F3 peruensis altum angel fry (making them F4 angels)*

Hi everyone.
We bought two F3 peruensis angels from Franks early in the spring (a huge debate was started in another post about whether or not these were indeed true altums or not and whether Frank sold them as true altums).
However, we did find a pair and they produced a few good spawns for us making them F4's. These are not the "true" altums (F1). Parents are close to a year old.

We have many fry just short of a loonie in size (from tip to tip of fins) ready to go soon for around $2 each. Just trying to gauge the interest. Could post pics soon if needed of the fry. Thanks for reading.


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## Tark77 (Sep 6, 2010)

Did you come to a conclusion on if they were true altums? How old are the parents, and how big are they. 

I am looking for a few angels myself, but only have a 21" high tank, were true altums shouldn't be housed.


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## gucci17 (Oct 11, 2007)

I thought it was determined that Frank was not selling true altums?


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## kev416 (Aug 22, 2010)

They are decendants from Peruvian Scalares. But they have been crossed to silver. The distinctive body shape of a wild scalare is missing. But what you do have is an exceptional silver angel with dark lines and red eyes. The wild genes are much needed in our inbred spindley angelfishes locally bred.


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## montelovers (Mar 26, 2009)

Sorry. Meant to say in the title that these are fry from F3 peruensis angels (as advertised by Frank back in the spring) meaning these are F4 fry angels. The parents are not the true F1 altums. I hope this helps clarify the post a bit more and I hope they are not being misrepresented.


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## Will (Jul 24, 2008)

These _Pterophyllum scalare "var Peruensis altum"_ will be a very nice compromise to the extremely high priced and very delicate and demanding true Altums, _Pterophyllum altum_. Someone looking for a stunning showpeice fish but not looking to fuss with fragility of Altums will be satisfied. It would be wise to leave the fuss over Altums to those that can provide the specific stable environment and can potentially breed them, because in a couple years when the Altum Craze is in full effect or passed, the captive bred altum lines should be nearly as hardy and acclimated to captive tank life as any Pterophyllum scalare angelfish. Until this day, lets enjoy these similarly patterned angelfish at a price everyone can afford.


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## Lee_D (Jun 11, 2010)

Why don't you take a few to the Auction this weekend? There were a lot of Anglefish at the Waterdown one. I'd put a note on the outside of the bag if they need special water conditions though.

Lee


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## montelovers (Mar 26, 2009)

We're not able to attend the auction this Sunday unfortunately.


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## montelovers (Mar 26, 2009)

Here are some pics of the some of the fry and the parents guarding yet another spawn. The fry make up three different spawns so we have fry of different sizes with the biggest ones available for sale.


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## myraymond (Jul 21, 2008)

*several questions*

1. do you put the parents and the eggs on the same tank after the eggs were laid?
2. what kind of water did you use for the breeding tank? just clean tap water or some RO water?

Thanks.


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## montelovers (Mar 26, 2009)

What you see is how we did it... left the parents to fan the eggs and when they were just starting to free swim, we sucked them out into another 29g tank half way full of RO remineralized to grow them out. This last spawn (not the eggs you see but the one previous), we tried to see how long they would take care of them. The fry lasted a good 2-3 weeks with parents where we felt it was time to get them out. So, they are proving to be great parents. The only way we can get our Waterloo tap water soft enough with low TDS is with RO remineralized just a little bit. Right now, they're running about 1-2 gh and PH around the low 6.


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## myraymond (Jul 21, 2008)

Thanks. one more question. what kind of water did you use in the tank where you put the parents and eggs together? just tap water?


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## montelovers (Mar 26, 2009)

The parents are in remineralized RO water 100% of the time. That's just so their eggs can get fertilized properly. Our tap water is too hard and ph is very high.
Once the eggs have hatched in the parents' tank, the free swimmers are moved to another tank with same water and then slowly converted to our tap water. Parents' water doesn't change at all (well, only during the WC that is.. and that's with more RO/small amt of tap water to remineralize).


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