# Lightz!? What stinkin lightz!?



## Oliver (Apr 2, 2011)

Ladies and Gentz,
My eye's are popping out of their sockets and I have a bald spot where my finger was sratching trying to make sense of all these lighting questions and answere's. Holy Moly. Mother nature does all this without consulting anyone.
Does anyone have her number ? ? ? 
I'm the guy with the FRANKENFREAKENAQUASTEINTANQ...kinda scratched up.
Apparently it is a 90 gallon and I believe I would like to grow plants and have Angels in it. So I went to Home Depot and bought an energy efficiant flourescent, fully assembeled low profile reflector 48" LITHONIA worklite. You just plug it in and presto . . . 35 bucks! the next step is the doozie. Which T8 48" light bulbs? I was thinking PHILIPS = Natural Sunshine (2950 Lumens/Light Output / 32 Watts / 86 Colour Rendering / 5000K) with PHILIPS = Cool White (2850 Lumens / 32 Watts / 78 Colour Rendering / 4100K). Is this adequate enough or am I spittin in tha wind?


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## Antoine Doinel (Dec 20, 2010)

Nope. You'd be lucky to keep anything alive with that amount of light. 

For a tank that size, you're going to need a lot more light, even for the basic plants.


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## Oliver (Apr 2, 2011)

HHHMMMM . . . Thank you Antoine.
Alot more lighting huh...so 2 flourescent light bulbs @ 10000K?
This is not too much brightness in there?
Maybe 2 x 5000K natural sunlight?
I have read enough about lighting for plant growth and colour enhancing bulbs but I thought I had a better understanding of the amount of lighting required. Back to the drawing board. It just gets so complicated in my opinion and this is just the lighting section. Then again it is a crucial section though.


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## Antoine Doinel (Dec 20, 2010)

Kelvin (ie 5000k vs. 10000k) is simply the colour temperature of the bulb. While different temperatures are better than others, what you're looking to do is increase is the wattage.

Right now you only have 64 watts for your 90 gallon, which is practically nothing. You could probably get by with twice that amount if you only want to keep low-light plants, but for anything else, you'll want more light.


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

I would say kelvin is a better indicator than wattage. Ideally we can use PAR ratings 

I would aim for 6700k bulbs, but if you want to grow a large variety of plants I would suggest you invest in a T5 High Output fixture instead of using T8.


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## tranceaddict (Apr 3, 2011)

Just get a few aquaGlo bulbs from your local fish store.


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## chriscro (Dec 3, 2010)

for example i have a 90 gal and grow 10 diff types of plants some low light some high light.

i have 218 W total of t5 HO. and i can grow anything ive put in there like a weed.

you need ideally 4 bulbs and id suggest 6700k - 10000k 
i mix mine up on diff timers to give a variety of light to the plants.

again alot is personal preference but return that fixture and go on ebay.
you can find odyssea fixtures for like $75-100 with bulbs.


one more thing, be careful for workshop fixtures usually the balast is inside the fixture which could be a hazard with moisture.
all aquarium fixtures have the balast outside the fixture to eliminate that hazard


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## qwerty (Dec 15, 2009)

Lighting is complicated and I think it's best if you read the discussions and articles around the internet to really decide which would be best for you.

You could probably light your tank well enough for plants using 3 T8 bulbs bare minimum. You would be paying to run 120W for about 10-12 hours a day, and might need to get higher quality fixtures with better reflectors than the one you have.

As the bulbs age you will need to replace all 3 of them regularly (I think T8's are good for 6 months? Or was it 12?)

In the strictest sense of lighting power. You could use a single T5HO bulb to grow the same bare minimum lighting plants in your tank. You would be paying to run 54W for about 10-12 hours a day, and would need to replace a single bulb every 12 or 24 months (I can't remember how long T5HO's last, either).

However this now presents the problem of lighting the ENTIRE tank. Since you only have a single skinny bulb, and your tank is 18 inches wide, you're going to have dark spots.

You could add a second T5HO fixture and space them apart from eachother, perhaps even suspend them? Or perhaps one of the wider 2-bulb fixtures suspended would work. It's hard to say offhand. The higher you suspend the lighting, the wider the area of distribution, but the weaker the light your plants will receive. You're also now paying to run 2 bulbs because a lot of your light output is being wasted by suspending the fixture.

Of course 3 T8 bulbs would distribute the light over the entire width of the tank easier.

With multiple T5HO bulbs suspended, all you would need to do to increase your lighting is lower the fixtures closer to the tank. So there's definitely more flexbility for upgrading, etc with that option.

So I don't think you can really get a straight-forward answer... Personally I would say go with the T5HO just cause it'll probably save you money in the long run, it gives you a lot of flexibility to upgrade in the future, and it would be a lot easier to sell T5HO lighting than T8 lighting if you ever get rid of the tank for some reason. If you get one of those 4-6 bulb fixtures you don't need to use all the bulbs in it and that way you could even upgrade the tank to grow reef in the future if you're really that into the hobby.

Do you think you'll be running pressurized CO2 now or in the future? DIY CO2? What sort of plants were you hoping to grow? Are you willing to provide the fertilization for a CO2 injected tank?

Read into it until you're certain for yourself. Providing purely enough light is the easy part IMO. Finding the option that suits you best now, and for the years to come is where it gets confusing.

The key to remember though is that watts are irrelevant. The only thing they correlate to is the length of the bulb, not the amount of light that bulb outputs. PAR is a better measurement for determining lighting.


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## Oliver (Apr 2, 2011)

Thank you all for your replies.
If I learned anything at all here, it's that there are no shortcuts to lighting and planted aquarium. Thank you for the reference to the Odyssea Fixtures on e-bay. 
The AquaGlo bulbs sound like an interm remedy but the fix is just a tiny little itty bitty more complicated ;]

I have looked into the lighting articles and it seem's like there are discusion's within discusion's stemming from one question. I wonder if there are basic set-up's to follow that are proven. You know . . . I think I will make a list of the plants that I picked up at that auction in Ajax for starters. Most are types of Anubia's. I think they may be low light. 
I have them at my sisterz place. She has a 20 gallon that wasn't planted. I pretty much took up all the space. she has those t5's you guys are talking about. So I better get my act in gear before the plants start to get nutrient deprived.


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## qwerty (Dec 15, 2009)

Like I said, providing enough light is the easy part... Figuring out the best way to provide it is where you have to start considering your different options. 

What's best for one person might not be best for you.

All lighting will work, provided there's enough of it.

The actual bulbs themselves don't make a huge difference except to how the tank looks to your eye. I personally like 6500K.


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## BillD (Jun 5, 2006)

I think you will find that your double T8 will grow anubias just fine. I have seen them flourish with less light. With Anubias it is hard to tell since they grow slowly. It is not true that aquatic fixtures have ballasts away from the fixture. Some have remote ballasts. Most have them inside the fixture. Regardless, many of us have used shoplights for years without issues.You could adda second fixture if you wanted too, as they are cheap enough, sometimes going on sale for $10. As far as longevity, all florescents lose intensity over time and may have some colour shift as well, but will stay lit for a long time after that. I had some Philips Ultravision tubes in T8 given to me after they had been in use for 6 months. These are work place lights that are 5000K. They have been running 10 hours a day for the last 2 years and plants are still growing like crazy. They are lighting a 48"by 12" area. Another tank of the same size has been growing plants for several years with only one tube over it. The plants in it are Vals, Sag, L. sessiflora, Java fern, and Anubias. The first tank had only chain swords.
So, while K rating isn't the be all, my experience is that tubes in the 5000K to 6500K grow plants better than other colours, especially if they are high intensity. In addition, You don't necessarily need as much light as some people think to grow a wide variety of plants. Right now, the sweet spot in lighting, price wise is the T8. Tubes are half the price of T5s, at around $4, or less, and far more readily available in good K ratings with high CRI numbers. The T8 fixtures are also very cheap. Another consideration is that generally, HO and VHO tubes last about half as long as Normal Output tubes, and they cost more and are harder to find. A lot of people have grown a lot of plants with only T12s, so, while T5s may be great, they aren't necessary, and I wouldn't pay the price to buy what is available at this time.


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## Oliver (Apr 2, 2011)

THANK YOU SIR . . . your opinion and experience is invaluable!
I thought in order to grow those Wickedly planted tanks with rich dark green colours I would have to spend over 6 bills just to get adequately set up not including Co2 injector.
I have spoken to a few people and they have told me to go to Home Depot so I did. To be honest with you your article to someone about going to Home Depot was confusing me. I can't recall who you were giving this advice to but I followed as closely what you mentioned and then I posted "Lightz!? What stinkin Lightz!" So you see that post took a life of it's own. I will give the setup I got for a while and see how it goes. You will be the first to receive pics and growth rates if interested. Thank you once again. By the way who were you @ the auction. I went and partook in the auction. Were you the guy who was buying up all the Angel's? I chose not to be a runner because you had plenty of help there.


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## bluegularis (May 12, 2010)

*Factors that will help*

I am supplying some old standard rules,

the std for a planted tank = 3-5 watts of light per gallon of water so a 90 gallon should have 270-450 watts of light supplied. The type of lights really do not make a ton of difference I have talked to people that use cool whites to plant bulbs etc and all have success.

Another factor is the amount of time that the light is provided, most aquatic plants live in the tropics where they are getting 12 hours of light per day minimum. So this should also be taken into consideration.

Another factor is the distance the plants are from the light every inch of water reduces or filters the amount of light that reaches the plant - you can get formulas regarding the amountof light lost on the internet. So plants in a 12 inch deep tank will get more light than plants in a 24 inch tank.

To grow plants with any degree of sucess all these factors must be considered for the lights. Other such things as fertilizer, CO2 and water changes etc will aslo affect how plants grow.

Thanks


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## bae (May 11, 2007)

BillD knows what he is talking about. Take his advice! 

Although the watts per gallon rules are only rough approximations, I and many others have grown tanks full of attractive plants on less than 2 watts per gallon. One thing to think about is that it's really the light intensity (wattage) that drives the whole system. With intense light, your plants will need CO2 supplementation, fertilizer, constant thinning and pruning, and you may also have a lot of trouble with algae until you get all these things balanced. With low to moderate light, you don't need any of these -- the plants will grow reasonably well without the CO2, get fertilized by the fish, and require very little intervention. Note that you can keep the lights on longer to compensate to some extent for lower wattage. 

For a good readable science-based view of what goes on in a planted tank, and how to have a nice one without a lot of trouble or expense, get Diana Walstad's book, Ecology of the Planted Aquarium. You don't have to follow her system, but there's a lot of info in there that you won't find elsewhere, and it's based on the scientific literature and her experimentation -- she's a biologist.

Deep tanks can be a problem because the bottom of the tank is so far from the lights. So you'll have better results with tall-growing plants than with short ones. Also, anubias is usually grown attached to wood, so this will get the plants up closer to the light. If you buy another T8 fixture next time they come on sale, you'll have 128 watts over your tank and you'll be able to grow a wider range of plants.

T12 tubes are alleged to start losing intensity after 6 months, but I use mine for a year or more, only replacing them when they start to get a dark ring at the end. T8s are alleged to maintain the original intensity for several years, but I don't have enough experience with them to know if this is valid. At any rate, they maintain intensity substantially longer than T12s.


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

To add in, I've been running a 20 gallon tank with crypts and anubias for over 3 months now with a 9 watt clip on light =D My T5 strip burnt out and I was too lazy to get new bulbs, so slapped this on. Haven't seen any change in growth or anything =)


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## Oliver (Apr 2, 2011)

This is very good advice.
The amount of time lights are left on and the distance from the plant to the light is a common sense approach that could very easily be overlooked. I personally was considering 12 to 14 hours of light exposure to make up for the lack of wattage. We'll see how this goes. The hight of the lights I did not take into account. I will try an experiment. I will set the lights of the 75 gallon say 4 to 6 inches from the top of the tank. I will set up the other tank right on the top. 
Thank you for taking the time to read and to post...it is much appreciated.


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## Oliver (Apr 2, 2011)

NICE!
Good to know these little quick tips for emergency sake.
I bought a T8 for a 10 gallon because that light was just old and the new light didn't seem to have made much of a difference. Oh well . . . life goes on.


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