# Plant questions for grass effect and other questions.



## zfarsh (Apr 7, 2011)

Hi,

I was wandering what were my options for plants i can experiment for low / medium light only, low tech (no co2 and dont add plant supplements, though i have them at home in case i need it) in a 75 gallon tank with play sand, as well as for a 10 gallon shrimp tank with those special black substrate that have nutrients in them for plants (I forgot the name).

Also, pls mention the advantage and inconveniences if at all possible. Can they be planted directly into the substrate, or do i need to put them on nets? I have herd of pellia, but have no idea how they work, advantages and what. Also the HC Cuba, how do i plant them, what is the difference between pelia, and advantages.

I had Sagittaria Sabulata in my 75 gallon play sand tank, about a year ago, but it kept getting algua and strugling. I put it in my shrimp tank, and it propagated alot. It is not bad, but i want to see my other options too, as well as trying to see i can reput in the 75 gallon tank and see if i get better resulsts with my added experience. 

I also used to have hair grass, but i cant seem to propagate it, maybe i just dont know how to use it, and it doesnt seem automatic like the sagittaria sabulata is. I have very poor experience with this one.

Also, I have looked at some of Amano's work, but was wandering if someone could help me. He uses Anubias Barteri (petite) alot, as well as a plant that looks like java fern, and he looks like he is putting it on the substrate, but maybe not plant it on it. Would this be ok, and how does he do it, it seems to give a nice effect. Also, if putting the Anubias petite on driftwood, how do you attach them on it, and do you use them exclusively (along with some moss) to give leaf like effect.

The current plants i have a alot of Java Fern, Anubias Barteri (mostly normal size), hygrophilia, bacota, which are all doing well.

Thanks in advance.


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

zfarsh said:


> Hi,
> 
> I was wandering what were my options for plants i can experiment for low / medium light only, low tech (no co2 and dont add plant supplements, though i have them at home in case i need it) in a 75 gallon tank with play sand, as well as for a 10 gallon shrimp tank with those special black substrate that have nutrients in them for plants (I forgot the name).


Low tech will limit your choice of plants, but that doesn't mean you can't achieve the effect you are looking for. Let's take a look...

Also, the black substrate that you have is either Eco Complete, Flourite or ADA Aquasoil...I'm not sure which one you have.



zfarsh said:


> Also, pls mention the advantage and inconveniences if at all possible. Can they be planted directly into the substrate, or do i need to put them on nets? I have herd of pellia, but have no idea how they work, advantages and what. Also the HC Cuba, how do i plant them, what is the difference between pelia, and advantages.


HC Cuba can be planted directly into the substrate, but will not do well in an aquarium without CO2.



zfarsh said:


> Also, I have looked at some of Amano's work, but was wandering if someone could help me. He uses Anubias Barteri (petite) alot, as well as a plant that looks like java fern, and he looks like he is putting it on the substrate, but maybe not plant it on it. Would this be ok, and how does he do it, it seems to give a nice effect.


As long as the rhizome is not buried under the substrate, _Anubias spp._ can be planted into the substrate. The same goes for Java Fern.



zfarsh said:


> Also, if putting the Anubias petite on driftwood, how do you attach them on it, and do you use them exclusively (along with some moss) to give leaf like effect.


You can attach them to driftwood using black cotton thread or fishing line. The advantage of using black cotton thread is that it eventually rots with time.

Hope this helps.


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

There are a number of mosses, and pellia is a type of moss, but where most moss is soft and supple, pellia is a bit brittle and tends to break easily. So it is easier to grow nicely if you contain it with some kind of mesh or netting, plastic or nylon.. I've used some mesh from a bag that came with some kind of fruit in it. This can be done with any kind of moss though. The net or mesh keeps most of the small pieces contained until they grow larger. Also keeps it where you want it. Place some moss on a rock, say, wrap the net or mesh around and tie it underneath with something. It will grow through the net and hide it in time. 

Moss is often grown on metal or sometimes plastic mesh patches. Stainless steel is good, I've even seen aluminum used. A small mesh patch with moss woven into the mesh can be moulded over pieces of driftwood or rocks and it will keep the moss in place until it grows over and takes hold, if it is a type that is able to take hold on its own. Or you can lay the patches on the substrate and grow moss like a sort of lawn. If the moss is a type that does not take hold of surfaces on it's own, then netting or mesh is about the only way to keep it in place. It will get a bit tangled in the netting with growth, which will keep it where you want it. Riccia is sort of like moss, but it tends to float, does not root, and if you don't want it flying around in little pieces, it needs to be contained in some kind of net until it grows enough that it becomes a tangled mat that wiil hang together on it's own. If you don't want it floating, you have to net it onto a rock or something to keep it down and then trim it like a lawn as it grows upward.

You can also use cotton thread or monofilament line to tie moss onto rocks or wood, by wrapping the thread around and around, then knotting it underneath. The moss will grow over the thread eventually and hide it, in the case of monofilament, or if it's cotton, it will rot off at some point, leaving the moss attached to what you tied it to.. wood, or coarse rocks. Anything very smooth won't give the moss rhizoids any texture to hold onto.

The same can be done with java ferns and anubias.. wrapping thread around the rhizome and roots and whatever you are tying it to. Eventually java fern will grow it's roots into wood or coarse rocks, like lava rock, for example. It'll stay attached on its own once this happens. Anubias will grow a lot of roots into the substrate but some will become attached to the wood or rock and keep it in place, but it takes some time for this to happen, as these are slow growing plants.

Plastic mesh is easy to get.. it's called Plastic Canvas and comes in several sizes of mesh, you can get it at Michaels, it's cheap. But it's light, so it won't sink, and it won't stay bent onto a form like wood. So you need to weight it with something, such as a small piece of slate, or tie it to what you want it on. Fabric stores have netting.. craft net is a good choice, it's polyester or nylon and about the right size, cheap and comes in colours too. Or salvage something from a fruit bag like I did.

Stainless mesh is harder to find, but 03 Pilot, a member here, had some a while back.. might still have some. Ebay is a possible source for non rusting metal mesh too.

Bear in mind that those pictures of Amano's tanks, while they are very lovely, are the result of a great deal of time spent carefully 'scaping, trimming and a long time growing the plants. Moss, ferns and anubias are all very slow growing plants, especially in low tech situations, and compared to most stem plants, for example.


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

I keep hoping someone replies with an option for a grass effect as I am interested in that myself


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## zfarsh (Apr 7, 2011)

thank you for the very detailed replies, i really appreciate it.


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

I've seen riccia grown in a way that kind of resembles an actual lawn. While you don't see 'blades', if you anchor it well to a big pebble or metal mesh, let it grow over the anchoring material and then use scissors to trim it horizontally periodically, what you end up with is a dense patch that looks something like a patch of lawn. It is a bit bright, for a truly grassy effect, but it is much more like lawn than moss is.

You might also try one of the Lilaeopsis.. not sure I spelled that properly, but there are two types, both appear to be fairly low growing, though I have to say, I have not had them long, so it may be they'll get taller. Both a nice rich green, and individual stems are quite narrow and will grow pretty densely. Having had them only for a short while, I'm afraid I do not know if they need C02.. nor do I know if they can be trimmed for height. Both, right now, are between 2 - 3 inches tall, give or take. If you separate the individual plantlets, then set them fairly close together, it has a grassy look to it. I am also not sure how much light they truly need.. I am not sure they are low light candidates.

Possibly you might use Pygmy chain sword, which will eventually spread into a thick, but taller grasslike carpet. More like a meadow than a lawn, being taller, about five or six inches. It has wider leaves, so it's a bit coarser looking. Spreads via rhizomes, so it will cover thickly with time. Igor Kanshyn has it so thick in one of his tanks that I saw, you couldn't see the substrate at all. Quite lush looking, but quite deep, covers at least a quarter of the height of the glass. Not a high light plant, but again, don't know how low light it can take and still look good. When I first tried it, I had it in a 30G with only one tube over the tank, 6500 K, but it only lit the back of the tank. The swords did not last long with that situtation, but in a 5 G with one 23W spiral daylight bulb, also 6500 K, it flourished. Shorter tank, so more light to the lowest level.


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## lgkhan (Oct 16, 2012)

*Java Fern has black spot*

Hi, 
Can anyone tell me why my java fern has black spots? I bought two bunches last week and few of the leaf start growing black spots on.

Please let me know if there is any cure/treatment required.

Much appreciated.
lgkhan


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## zfarsh (Apr 7, 2011)

can you show some pix?


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

lgkhan said:


> Hi,
> Can anyone tell me why my java fern has black spots? I bought two bunches last week and few of the leaf start growing black spots on.
> 
> Please let me know if there is any cure/treatment required.
> ...


Pictures would be helpful, but it may be just that the leaves are forming spores, which is perfectly normal.


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## lgkhan (Oct 16, 2012)

Thanks for your reply, when i will be at home i will post pictures.

Thanks again.


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

My dwarf sag stayed low with a 130W Power Compact over a 50cm tall tank. That's about 1.6 WPG. I've since switched to T5HO, but haven't noticed any change yet.


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