# considering an upgrade in size.



## df001 (Nov 13, 2007)

So I'm thinking about a new tank, currently I have a 65g 36x18x24. I'm considering the idea of getting a starfire(front and sides)~90g 48x24x18.

Currently, the tank lives in a corner with a cabinet beside it that sticks out 24" off the wall, so going wider isn't going to affect the room as much.

the extra width would allow me to scape the tank with more change in levels and bigger more interesting wood.

the 24" height on the 65g has always been a challenge to get good light penetration to the bottom (finnex LED ftw), a shorter tank would help for the really high light plants.

I already have more than ample filtration (2x 2217 running sponges/floss)
More room for livestock?

the best part - I have the pre-approval of domestic-niner.

The Cons that I see are i'd need to tear down this set-up and sell it (tank stand and lights) to make room.

I'd have to build a new stand (oh noes not fun cabinetry!! shouldnt this be on the pro side?)

I'd have to buy new lights. (current usa LED?)

let me know what you think?
df


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## tom g (Jul 8, 2009)

*tank....*

upgrades are always exciting ,, expecially when its not my own cash...lol
I think its a great move ....the bigger footprint will deff give u awesome chioices in wood and such .as for lighting chk out the hydroponics store on Kingston road if u are going t5s I think the pricing was not bad ...but it is a plain white fixture ..
cant wait to see what u come up with good luck


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

maybe consider a 75 gallon, same footprint as a 90 but not as high so better light penetration


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## df001 (Nov 13, 2007)

I should have been clearer in my op. 48" (long)x 24" *(wide)* x 18" *(tall)* hence custom for a nonstandard size.


pyrrolin said:


> maybe consider a 75 gallon, same footprint as a 90 but not as high so better light penetration


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## tom g (Jul 8, 2009)

*glass*

hey man the only thing I heard about the starfire is that it scratches easier then a reg glass tank , maybe some who have can comment with experience with this glass...


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

That sounds like a very nice tank. Consider making it maybe 20 high for a little extra room



df001 said:


> I should have been clearer in my op. 48" (long)x 24" *(wide)* x 18" *(tall)* hence custom for a nonstandard size.


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## BillD (Jun 5, 2006)

One of our members had a few tanks of that size. Nice tank. Not sure where he had them made, and they weren't Starfire.


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## df001 (Nov 13, 2007)

I've spoken with miracles and they offer a really competitive price for an awesome custom project. I'm looking into either going rimless or eurobraced.


BillD said:


> One of our members had a few tanks of that size. Nice tank. Not sure where he had them made, and they weren't Starfire.


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## aniroc (Aug 23, 2012)

My 180g is made by Miracles and is eurobraced. 5/8 glass, 4'' brace.
Pros for eurobrace: added structure, open top (no metal brace in the middle), less evaporation (lots of condensation under the brace)
Cons: must be drilled (2'' holes) to access filters, heaters, powerheads, etc. You decide the number and position of the holes and leaves you no option if you want to change.


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## df001 (Nov 13, 2007)

Thanks for the info I appreciate it.


aniroc said:


> Pros for eurobrace: added structure, open top (no metal brace in the middle), less evaporation (lots of condensation under the brace)


 would it still make sense to put some sort of lid to limit jumpers? How would that work? Just lay a sheet of glass ontop the euro brace? After the loss of my male angelfish to jumping im pretty concerned about it.


> Cons: must be drilled (2'' holes) to access filters, heaters, powerheads, etc. You decide the number and position of the holes and leaves you no option if you want to change.


Considering currently I only run the intake and outflow pipes, everything else is inline underneath in the cabinet I dont see a huge issue with getting the holes needed drilled. The other thing ive been considering is use of a sump and have the tank drilled for overflows and return lines so that the inside look of the tank is even cleaner. Not sure how well that would work with co2 injection though.


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## aniroc (Aug 23, 2012)

Miracles will make you a glass top, shouldered to fit the edge of the brace. If you ask me, I don't think I got my money's worth for the glass top (more on that if you ask..)
As for jumpers. I don't know. Somebody told me that fish jump when they are dis-oriented. Like, in total darkness when they don't see the surface. That's what moon lights are for (or floating plants). Don't take my word for it. Just found it interesting.


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## tom g (Jul 8, 2009)

*tank*

If u drilled the tank and did a sump for it that size tank woukd 
prob be a great size if u were at some point in time decided to go 
saltwater....i know we talked about the poss before...


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## zfarsh (Apr 7, 2011)

Wow, sounds like an excellent plant, the footprint is excellent, I'd love it even more than my existing normal 75 gallons. I say do it, and man, that sounds really exciting to make such a switch. I'd personaly go with FW, as I don't know what is good for saltwater. Where are you getting this, and how much can one get this for?

1st, a normal 90 g has 24" height, and a 75g has 21" height, so at 18", it will be nice, although the 75g is good too, but more water, more stable conditions!!! And yea, you can maybe even ask them to make it a little higher at 20" if you want, but 18" seems nice for maintenance.

For the lights, it depends what plants you put. If you have low light plants, they might be ok with shop floor lights you get from Home Depot, but if you want med to high light plants, then you need to spend on proper lighting. I have a 6" riser on my shop floor lamp I am using on my 75g tank with 21" height. It works for plants like Java Fern, Moss, Bacopa, and other low light plants that don't require much, but wouldn't work for med / high light plants.

For the base, sounds exciting to make a custom one for it, or have it made. I cheaped out on my base, and got the fake wood ones, and later re-enforced it myself.

Anyways, good luck, sounds very exciting to me


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## df001 (Nov 13, 2007)

You sound hesitant to elaborate publicly on the forum, perhaps it would be best if you send me a PM?



aniroc said:


> Miracles will make you a glass top, shouldered to fit the edge of the brace. If you ask me, I don't think I got my money's worth for the glass top (more on that if you ask..)


assuming i stick with the canister filters, i'd want the top drilled 2x either side for intake and return. additionally if they do a center brace i'd get it drilled in the middle for making a convenient spot to put the auto-feeder. not sure about how the lid would work with a euro-braced tank but the plan would be for the top to only have the lights to be as cleans as possible.



zfarsh said:


> 1st, a normal 90 g has 24" height, and a 75g has 21" height, so at 18", it will be nice, although the 75g is good too, but more water, more stable conditions!!! And yea, you can maybe even ask them to make it a little higher at 20" if you want, but 18" seems nice for maintenance.


the lower height is less for maintenance, more for increasing the ability to light the bottom of the tank (higher par) with my 65g (24 tall)i've found that even with tons of light on the top of the tank, all that happens is the plants reach for the top, and then get scorched.



> For the lights, it depends what plants you put. If you have low light plants, they might be ok with shop floor lights you get from Home Depot,


hahaha yeah no more t5ho's for me. I'll be using LED fixtures most likely, i'm currently thinking about the current USA satelite LED, 6400k white and full spectrum RGB chips. I'll pick it up when im in the states some time soon.



> For the base, sounds exciting to make a custom one for it, or have it made. I cheaped out on my base, and got the fake wood ones, and later re-enforced it myself.
> Anyways, good luck, sounds very exciting to me


thanks, making a base is no big deal when you have the tools, the space etc, probably the hardest decision is deciding on the style of cabinetry and the finish. I'm thinking I'll make the stand in oak, and use the iron-tannic acid reaction to ebonize it. I'll probably do a similar style as the current stand, (see my tank thread)


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## aniroc (Aug 23, 2012)

I have no problem expressing my own opinion on a product I purchased, if I am asked.
Having both custom made glass top by Miracles and glass canopy manufactured by Marineland Perfecto (on my 75g) I can tell the difference between them: 
Miracles glass top: thicker, heavier and poorly polished edges. It looks clearer than Marineland's and possibly with better light transmission so I will give the material itself a pass.
The glass strip that it added to the main piece (in such a way that it gives a lip that sits on the brace) is randomly siliconed together, esthetically unpleasant.
Here comes my main point. The middle piece (did I mentioned that there are three?) is hinged. It also has the plastic flap at the back. The hinge itself is way wider than Marineland's. However little, that hinge restricts light and this is the very reason I avoid center brace. The middle piece also has an oversized metal clamp for easy lifting. Marineland has a smaller, transparent knob glued on the glass.
Let's just say I am picky. But I couldn't find a flaw on the construction of the tank itself.


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## df001 (Nov 13, 2007)

Thanks for the response Aniroc could you snap a photo of the miracles lid so i can see what your talking about? 

Given your lid description I may just be better talking with miracles and having them build the bracing/lid to my spec. I would rather a small hole drilled for lifting with a finger tip than a knob or handle like many comercial lids have.


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## aniroc (Aug 23, 2012)

http://rs1342.pbsrc.com/albums/o774/aniroc2/IMG_0752_zps26dbf98f.jpg~c200?t=1400532772

Left side without the lid


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## aniroc (Aug 23, 2012)

http://rs1342.pbsrc.com/albums/o774/aniroc2/IMG_0759_zpsc0dde20f.jpg~c200?t=1400534313

Rough edges and unsighty silicone


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## aniroc (Aug 23, 2012)

http://rs1342.pbsrc.com/albums/o774/aniroc2/IMG_0762_zps481b963a.jpg~c100

Right side sitting on eurobrace


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## df001 (Nov 13, 2007)

yikes, thats not acceptable at all. I'll have to specify that the lid edges need to be polished...


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## aniroc (Aug 23, 2012)

Sorry about the triple posting. Now I realize that each link is a slideshow and you can view all the pictures taken and added to the photobucket, including the Ozelot flower (not intended).
Posting pictures is definitely not my strength.


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