# beef with the Big Al.



## sawman88 (Sep 29, 2008)

so i went to the London Big Al's aquarium services today and i got a lil frustrated. i asked if they stocked under gravel filters... and she looked at me like i was from the stone age.. like wtf would you want an under gravel filter for anyway? and ive had some talk with some other fish people before.. about the dissapearance of the under gravel filter. and we came up with a few reaons.
1. initial cost is very low.
2. upkeep cost is allmost nonexistant 

so of course instead of selling me a $30 filter there are only like $80 filters that do the same thing but less efficiantly..... if they did not stock undergravel filters... fine but what REALLY yanks my chain is EVERY FW tank in the store is run by an undergravel filter......... i do know of a few places to get them and they are super cheep. and i think i saw some a pets mart for 10x the price of what they should be... but thats just me.


----------



## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

every store I've been to has UGFs in a dusty corner of the store (WHERE THEY BELONG!!! lol). Usually pretty cheap too.


----------



## sawman88 (Sep 29, 2008)

lol do you hate UGF's too? lol


----------



## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

UGFs are the worst. Worse than a single person in a gas guzzling SUV idling across 3 wheel chair spots on their way into the convenience store to buy smokes for underage kids. 

Yes, they're that bad.


----------



## sawman88 (Sep 29, 2008)

how can they possibly be bad? they do pretty much the same thing as a canister filter,, pass water though media. the lifter tubes are easy to conceil and it uses hardly any hyrdo. BAM!


----------



## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Has crap beneath the UGF itself, and you can't have plants with the UGF cause they make an already ineffective system even worse. Also, you get very uneven water movement through an UGF so that the effective filtration part is only the area close to the riser tube. 

UGF = UGH


----------



## Canadiancray (Apr 27, 2006)

Only thing the undergravel filter is good for is creating bubbles. On second thought its not very good at that either. I would take sponge filter over that any day.


----------



## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

I second that.


----------



## Sunstar (Jul 29, 2008)

ameekplec. said:


> Has crap beneath the UGF itself, and you can't have plants with the UGF cause they make an already ineffective system even worse. Also, you get very uneven water movement through an UGF so that the effective filtration part is only the area close to the riser tube.
> 
> UGF = UGH


Ameekplec, I hate to break it to you, but my UGF is not doing so badly now the system stabalised. MIND you I do have about 3 inches of substrait on it. but the area under it seems pretty clear. (I am thinking of not resetting the system in the early year)

However; I will admit I use a HOB as well as the UGF. The two systems working together work well. For me. My plant growth has been good, my algae growth has been good.

MY UGF uses a powerhead.

I say they work if you use a Powerhead and piggy back with a filter. one sucks the crud down where the roots can use it. And the other sucks the floating crud out.


----------



## Canadiancray (Apr 27, 2006)

Sunstar said:


> Ameekplec, I hate to break it to you, but my UGF is not doing so badly now the system stabalised. MIND you I do have about 3 inches of substrait on it. but the area under it seems pretty clear. (I am thinking of not resetting the system in the early year)
> 
> However; I will admit I use a HOB as well as the UGF. The two systems working together work well. For me. My plant growth has been good, my algae growth has been good.
> 
> ...


Stabilized LOL.... Doesn't sound very old. Its just a matter of time before the thing becomes big gooey nitrate factory


----------



## Mr Fishies (Sep 21, 2007)

Other than UGF, AFAIK there are no other filters that require a tank tear-down to truly and fully clean.

If someone tried to sell me a HOB or canister for a real good price and then told me in order to clean it out I'd need to tear the tank down I'd look for another filter.


----------



## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

In answer to your question sawman88, it's not because of profits. It's because of next to 0 demand for UG filters. But you are right in your thinking though. UGF is kind of backward.
The problem with UGF is that you need experience to handle it well and a good eye to catch it when something goes wrong. I find from my experience that it works well if you are under stock in fish. You have lush plants to help absort the excess neutrients and you gravel vac religiously on time. And hence here lies the problem, if you don't do it right. They can build up to a very bad state without you know it. Then it hits you like a train, wham and the fishs in your tank goes in that dying spin and no amount of water change or gravel vac will fix the issue. The problem is that it's been building up to a death tank without you know it because it's hidden under that UGF.
And as MR. Fishies point out, you need to tear the tank down to fix the issue.
That's why so many people op for the canister or hang-ons as it's the only thing you need to clean.

*Never pay again for live sex! | Hot girls doing naughty stuff for free! | Chat for free!*


----------



## Sunstar (Jul 29, 2008)

Canadiancray said:


> Stabilized LOL.... Doesn't sound very old. Its just a matter of time before the thing becomes big gooey nitrate factory


I've used it for about 10 years. I'll watch it for now, but perhaps I can prove the general concensus wrong..


----------



## Windowlicka (Mar 5, 2008)

To truly sit on the fence here(!), I believe Eheim might even still make a reverse-flow UG filter system that worked ~in conjunction~ with (at the time) their 221x canister filters...

it was kinda like an early version of a UGJ system - only the return line from the canister fed into a UG downtube, pushing filtered water down and through UG plates, then returning it to the column up and through the substrate...

Yup - Just found the reference on their parts site: 2 options - one for 'reverse flow' UGF (#3540) & one 'regular' UGF with a canister (#3541), pulling water through the substrate & out to the canister, then returning via spray bar:

Select equipment & accessories on the left side of the below page, then scroll-down

http://www.eheimparts.com/client/homepage.aspx


----------



## planter (Jun 9, 2008)

I've never used one but why would you want a filter you can't easily access if you need to? 

How do you clean it?


----------



## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

UGF's has/had their place in this hobby prior to the introduction and at a point where the cost of HOB and canister filters became affordable.

As others have pointed out, the drawback is due to the accumulation of "crap" underneath the plates that can block the flow of water from the substrate particles above it. The only way to address this issue is to tear down the system to clear the junk collected underneath.

The reverse flow method does work better but the reverse flow PH's weren't that effective. Using the return of a canister filter works as well but if the filter media capacity was adequate to handle the bioload, then it just makes the UGF a redundant component to the whole system. Not using a UGF in this method just simplifies things.

Not to say by any means that one cannot have a successful using an UGF system, it's just simpler nowadays with better filtration systems based on the same principles.

JM2C


----------



## Sunstar (Jul 29, 2008)

Interestingly, after having one in a tank for three years, the amount of crud under the filter was very low. Also, the smell of the water was fine. It never had that UGGH smell that I remembered from my childhood tanks. 

admittedly the only problem with mine right now, is there is a fair amount of sand in an area where I forgot to put a larger grain substrait down over the gravel before uisng the sand. Other than that, it's pretty clean under there. 

I am sure when it comes to taking the tank to reset it, if I decide to do that, it'll be entertaining to get the plants out. However iwth that said, it has given me places to tie drifwood down.

I am sure much of the issue surrounding UGF is the fact people think that it's leave it there and forget about it. it, like anything else, needs to be maintained. I do not feel it needs to be removed to clean it. Actually getting the gravel vac into a spot to suck it out works well enough for me. 

I think it also depends on the method of getting this thing to filter. Using a airstone does not work. I have tried it and my success was pretty poor. that was on my 5 gallon tank. ALso finding filter heads for the UGF is difficult. I removed that one out the 5 gallon tank because I did desire to try it without. 

I think running a UGF is best with a power head. I do enjoy the current it creates and so do my fish, whcih spend time swimming into it.

basically, it is much to do with how one utilises the system. A good canister could easily be messed up by one who does not know how to use it. 

All in all, I will eventually remove it, but for now, things are doing okay, so I don't want to tamper with something which works.


----------



## ksimdjembe (Nov 11, 2006)

I agree with most on this. 
I originally spent a bit on a new set of AquaClears and be happy being able to take out the sponge to rinse it in tankwater... how more simple can that get.? that, or a sponge filter.
as long as the tanks are not overstocked and it does what you need, what more would you want. 
ultimately though, it is totally up to what you are looking for.


----------



## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

Sometimes giving a series of sturdy taps and wiggles on the UGF plate when gravel vacuuming can dislodge the crud underneath and get some/most of it out.

It seems to me that you have an excellent maintenance regimin...as you mentionend, it's when it's not done enough that issues arise...that goes for anything, not just the UGF system . 

JM2C/HTH


----------



## Sunstar (Jul 29, 2008)

This tank has the UGF: This pic will be going into my log thing shortly. I need to remove some plants as they are growing TOO big. (apon)


----------



## Cory_Dad (Apr 18, 2008)

Good luck getting some of the big plants out; their roots are probably so intertwined in the UGF you'll need to use a knife.


----------



## Sunstar (Jul 29, 2008)

I haven't had much trouble, and I will be taking some out shortly.


----------



## moon (Mar 11, 2006)

Most of you guys won't know this but 25 to 30 years ago u/g filters were the standard filtration method for most of us keeping fish on a budget. As Wilson mentioned canisters and HOB's were too expensive. Now with the advent of sponge filters and relatively cheap power filters, u/g filters are obsolete. They do require more maintenence the other mothods of filtration. I still have some plates and lift tubes in my fish room that may have antique value someday.


----------



## KevD (Mar 2, 2008)

If anyone wants some of those Eheim UGF filters mentioned in a previous post by Windowlicka, let me know. I've got a few of them taking up space in my basement. Keep in mind, you do need a canister filter to run them.

Sunstar,

Tank looks great!


----------

