# Red Cherry shrimp die off



## Akinari (Mar 20, 2018)

So I been trying to keep RCS ( red rilis ) for a few months, but they keep dying after 2 ~3 weeks... 

Tank is Fluval Spec V, ( 5.6 gallons, I know people suggest at least 10 gallon but due to space constraint I can't upgrade atm )
I have some plants in there ( anubia petite, flame moss, some buce )
Cholla wood
Lace rock ( TDS didn't shoot up and didn't' react with vinegar ) 
substrate is Tahitian Moon Sand

TDS is @ 200
ph is probably 7.5 ? ( API master kit, PH Low reads max, PH high reads Min.. )
gh is around 7.84	
kh is aroound 3.9193729
No heater, cycled for 2 months+ now

Current tank mates: 
1 nerite snail ~ 1cm 
1 hedgehog nerite snail ~ 2cm
2 amano shrimp ( 1 small 1 big ) 
4 rabbit snail ( ~ 2 cm ) 
6 red rilis left

Feed regiment is a rotation of :
Hikari Tropical Srimp Cuisine
Hikari Tropical CRAB CUISINE
Hikari Tropical ALGAE WAFERS
Bacter AE 
Barley Pellets 

Uneaten food is always removed after a few hours to prevent fouling the water.

I used to dose ferts / excel but stopped, but they're still dying after 2 ~ 3 weeks. 

Only the red rilis are dying, I don't think they're dying due to failed moults since I don't see any weird lines behind the head. They always seem to lose colour then become lethargic over a few days, and finally kicking the bucket a few more days after that. ( they sometimes are found dead still standing up right ... ) 

Could this be a bacterial infection? 
Any suggestions would be great thanks !


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## LaceyRen (Mar 22, 2018)

Your water pipes, are they copper? I've heard that's a silent killer in shrimp keeping. 

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## Akinari (Mar 20, 2018)

I do have copper pipes, but havn't tested for copper.
I usually only use cold water + prime...

Side note, wouldn't the amano / snails also die off due to copper?
How fast ... do shrimps die if they're copper poisoned ?


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## LaceyRen (Mar 22, 2018)

Maybe over time, amano are also bigger. It really depends. But if you got copper pipes, your water will definitely carry traces of copper unfortunately. 

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## LaceyRen (Mar 22, 2018)

But I also heard most people have their water come into contact with copper pipes. I heard running your water for while and also using only cold water helps. 

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## Akinari (Mar 20, 2018)

welp, 

tested for copper today, came up clear. 
back to square one.. *Sigh*


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## LaceyRen (Mar 22, 2018)

Maybe you've hydra growing in your shrimp tank? Or planaria? 

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## tous (Jun 22, 2017)

It's been my experience that Cherry shrimp will survive anywhere/anything so long as it is stable.

Ive had them sitting in 3 inchs of 60PPM nitrate water breeding and having a joly old time. Then I top off the tank I get a die off.

Like if you've buffered your substrate so it sits significantly different from your tap, then do a large water change, the PH swing will cause some deaths.

Also; thats alot of bigger snails/ammano for a small space, I would say just make sure you see them eating, cause they might be getting out competed for food. I put one big mama ammano in my little 5gal RCS colony and I had to target feed her otherwise she'd bully the RCS outa food. Especially if your removing it, as I find my RCS really only get going once pellets/food starts to turn into mushy stuff.

Ive watched cherry shrimp feast on many a bacteria downed corpses and never saw any related deaths, I tend to think their relatively resistant.

Id say in order of likeliness Parameters swinging > PH/Molting issues > Pests like hydra/plenaria > food competition > bacteria > metals

Failed molt lines arn't so much behind the head, as mid body like this picture. If its a new setup and some die to failed molts they were probally raised in different water parameters and your just going to lose some. Maybe even all of your original ones in a few months, but the babies raised in your water will thrive and do well.

http://www.shrimpnow.com/mygallery/files/7/1/9/7/img_8718_resize.jpg


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## Akinari (Mar 20, 2018)

I have not spotted any hydra / planaria during my observation.



tous said:


> It's been my experience that Cherry shrimp will survive anywhere/anything so long as it is stable.
> 
> Ive had them sitting in 3 inchs of 60PPM nitrate water breeding and having a joly old time. Then I top off the tank I get a die off.
> 
> ...


I do try to target feed the amano first so they run off somewhere else and leave my cherries alone... I guess I will leave the food in a bit longer and see if my cherries gets anything to eat.

Definitely don't see any failed moult lines on the dead shrimps, they always lose colour before dying.


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## LaceyRen (Mar 22, 2018)

You can see if your cherries are eating by looking at their bodies for that dark line indicating a loaded stomach. 

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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

You said there's no heater in the tank.

What's the temperature? Is it too cold? Too hot? Experiencing big swings?


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## Akinari (Mar 20, 2018)

hovers around 23~24 degrees Celsius usually ( they were dying in this temp ), but with this weather I saw it went up to 26 ~ 27 last night..

Pretty sure they're eating... since I can see their lines.
















I'll see if I can get a few shots of the ones that's lost their colour tonight...
















Added pics of "faded" colour shrimps, they all used to be really vibrant red.


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

Akinari said:


> hovers around 23~24 degrees Celsius usually ( they were dying in this temp ), but with this weather I saw it went up to 26 ~ 27 last night..


Are there large temp swings day and night?

What are your ammonia/nitrite/nitrate levels?

Excel is known for killing shrimps. Its possible that you're witnessing a prolonged die-off.


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## Akinari (Mar 20, 2018)

Shouldn't have large swings maybe 2 ~ 3 degrees on a normal day.

0 ammonia
0 nitrite
0 nitrate 

I've stopped excel for this current batch of shrimp and did a large WC before adding them in, but they're still dying.


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## Rain (Feb 21, 2016)

Are you buying adult shrimp or juvenile shrimp? As strange as it sounds, juveniles are actually hardier. I've pretty much had every single adult I've bought die off within a week but the juveniles have started colonies.


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## Akinari (Mar 20, 2018)

I've actually tried both, to no success. 

ugh, I went and dug around the basement, turns out there's a water softener that's no longer being used .... but water is still passing thru it.. ( I did a quick TDS test between the water before softener and after softener and they're about +- 3~ 4 TDs diff. )

I'm moving within the month so I'll do a few water changes and try adding shrimps again after that. Hopefully it was the water ..


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