# Twobytwo's 120g build



## twobytwo (Oct 25, 2014)

Hi... so instead of creating multiple threads for everything I'm doing, all the questions I have and the suggestions I request - I would keep it all here. It all started with a craigslist purchase a few months ago, sat in my parents garage while I got married and moved into a condo... and now I'm ready to get going. SW is new to me and I'd like to set things up right the first time. I'm reading lots of articles and getting a handle on things, but even slight variations from one article to another are causing me some confusion and hesitation on making a decision and moving forward. I'm the kind of guy that learns better by asking questions specific to my situation that just general articles.

So I basically have a blank canvas to work with...
I'm starting with a 120HX (60x18x26). Since it's used (sticker says build date is Dec 2008), for extra security and piece of mind, I'll be resealing it.

At this point, my concern is regarding plumbing. I believe the tank is from Marineland which uses tempered glass for the bottom pane only - so, holes will be drilled in the back instead.

Assuming I use the Herbie method... where *exactly* would you have the holes drilled? What size would you drill the holes?

For the sump, I'm trying to aim around 30g. I'm considering to build a basic one myself from an existing 30g long (36x12x16) tank by adding baffles for skimmer, refugium and return sections. Will this (in addition to live rock) allow me to go without any "mechanical" filter? Understanding that the skimmer section only needs to be as big as the skimmer... do you have any recommendations for a specific skimmer suitable for the water volume, and what the footprint/size requirements are? If I don't intend to use the refugium for critters (fish, fry, snails, etc...) _immediately_, what specifically goes in it...? just live sand, rocks and...? Does the refugium _have _to be illuminated?

If you have any input on additional measures to make things extra leak proof (aside from Bean method), I'd love to hear them! Unrelated - I may consider ATO in case I'm away from the tank... I may ask for advice on this in the near future.

Thanks in advance - I'll probably have follow up questions for setting up the main and emergency drains, return, etc. In the near future I'll need help with lighting, schedules, etc... I'm kind of funny in that I'll spend money on something I don't want to deal with (eg buying a new stand rather than building) and some things I'll do the simplest or most cost effective way. That's why I'm open to all help and appreciate everything the members can share... I hope to have a pretty impressive tank soon and be able to invite you all over to share.


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Congrats on taking the plunge! I'm sure you'll find lots of good info from the members here 



twobytwo said:


> Assuming I use the Herbie method... where *exactly* would you have the holes drilled? What size would you drill the holes?


Depends on where you want the overflow to go which will depend somewhat on your sump layout. As for the size, it will depend on the return pump and flow rate you're using, but more likely than not 1 or 1.5" plumbing for the drains and 3/4" - 1" for the returns (the corresponding holes are bigger, obviously). if you're nervous about drilling, some stores will drill for you - you just have to bring the tank; alternatively members here may be able to help you out if you're nearby 9and friendly!).



twobytwo said:


> For the sump, I'm trying to aim around 30g. I'm considering to build a basic one myself from an existing 30g long (36x12x16) tank by adding baffles for skimmer, refugium and return sections. Will this (in addition to live rock) allow me to go without any "mechanical" filter?


I would use a mechanical filter like a series of filter socks. On my 100g tank, it's one of my few regrets/oversights I made when designing the system. Whatever my skimmer doesn't catch stays in the system unless I can vacuum it out, so my sandbed is pretty dirty as a result.



twobytwo said:


> Understanding that the skimmer section only needs to be as big as the skimmer... do you have any recommendations for a specific skimmer suitable for the water volume, and what the footprint/size requirements are?


There are plenty of options for skimmers - my recommendation would be to check the for sale ads for a good skimmer. At your size system, there are a ton of options available and will probably come down to how much $ you have to spend on everything.



twobytwo said:


> If I don't intend to use the refugium for critters (fish, fry, snails, etc...) _immediately_, what specifically goes in it...? just live sand, rocks and...? Does the refugium _have _to be illuminated?


Nope - if there's nothing photosynthetic, no light needed. Keep it dark and let the critters be 



twobytwo said:


> If you have any input on additional measures to make things extra leak proof (aside from Bean method), I'd love to hear them! Unrelated - I may consider ATO in case I'm away from the tank... I may ask for advice on this in the near future.


Get an ATO - I think even people who don't like to automate too many tasks get an ATO - for a large system like that you're topping off anywhere from a few litres to a few gallons a day (especially in the dry winters!). Grab yourself an ATO to start so you can focus on the more important things - like just enjoying the tank.



twobytwo said:


> Thanks in advance - I'll probably have follow up questions for setting up the main and emergency drains, return, etc. In the near future I'll need help with lighting, schedules, etc... I'm kind of funny in that I'll spend money on something I don't want to deal with (eg buying a new stand rather than building) and some things I'll do the simplest or most cost effective way. That's why I'm open to all help and appreciate everything the members can share... I hope to have a pretty impressive tank soon and be able to invite you all over to share.


A good way to save money in the hobby is to pick up used items - there's always someone moving up a size bigger than you and having equipment for sale, or someone who's getting out or someone who has way too much stuff and nowhere to use it. Also, it's a great way to meet people here in person and get to know them, and if you're lucky, they'll show you their stuff...... Aquarium stuff.....yeah.

Anyhow, looks like you're off to a decent start and hopefully you get the tank wet sooner than later!


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## Crayon (Apr 13, 2014)

Ameek covered all of your basic questions. From here forward, if you want to ask specific questions, or a question at a time, you might get some alternate views on how to do things. There are so many ways to build a system. So many options.
Not sure how much of your sump will be available for a fuge, so in terms of priorities for the sump it requires:
Skimmer area
Socks (mechanical gunk removal) and I agree these are important
Flow pump area with some type of baffle to prevent air bubbles from being pumped back into the tank
Possibly room for a reactor, or nitra cubes, or GFO.
Room for a heater, or two, or three 
Float for an Ato.

And most importantly, get the other half of the relationship involved. Somehow. This hobby eats up time and money, so it's a wonderful adventure to share if you're both into some aspect of the tank.
In our house, I do "sociology and architecture" meaning inhabitants and placement in the tank. The other half does "engineering and chemistry" meaning all the water parameters, testing, equipment and programming. We share water change duty, cause it just eats up so much time if one person has to do it.
Have fun with your build! Looking forward to the pics.


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## twobytwo (Oct 25, 2014)

Thanks so far!

ameekplec.- I'm definitely friendly and always have beer in the fridge if you know anyone who can help drill. I don't mind paying either, and frankly I'd rather pay a friendly forum member than drag the tank down from my condo to the parking garage, into the car, to the shop, back to my building and up again. *Beer and money for anyone who can drill 3 holes in my tank!!!*

For the filter socks, does the drain from the display tank have to be shut down when cleaning them?

Ok - for the refugium... My understanding is that it's essentially a safe place for growing things (algae, snails, fry, etc...) - is there a benefit to the display (promotes beneficial bacteria, additional filtration, etc)? I would rather use limited space for better 'filtration' and positive biological-ness than to grow things. With that being said, Crayon - you mention Nitra Cubes and GFO. If I have a section in the sump, after the skimmer and before return, do I just dump Nitra Cubes/Gfo/sand/rocks and whatever else in there or is there a bit of architecting in how the materials are placed in that section? If you were building this setup, what specific products should I be shopping for based on my wants, to put in middle of my sump?

Crayon - trying to get the wife involved.... right now she's more interested in selecting livestock than the actual engineering and chemistry of the tank... but I'm sure I can get her into it if I give her important tasks.

Oh and I installed an RO system under my sink - TDS went from 144 to 7ppm, so that feels pretty good 

I'll try to post some pics of what I've got so far, soon.


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## twobytwo (Oct 25, 2014)

Oh - and I'll just indicate my lighting which came with the setup when I bought it... I have two of Odyssea MH ADVP-30; each of the two units has 250W MH @15,000k, 4 x T5HO 24w (in each, so 8 bulbs total), and Blue LED's. Long-term, is this the best choice for me right now (considering I have the fixtures already) considering going forward I'll only spend $ on Hydro and bulbs... or would I be better off (in money spent or effectiveness for my tank) switching to an only LED or only T5HO fixture?

I want to replace 1 ballast as it looks gross/rusty from PO and I heard the Odyssea ones weren't so good to begin with - does anyone have a good link to an external 250w MH Ballast locally? I already replaced one, shipped to an amerifriend to bring one back which I ordered on ebay for around $70 shipped.


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## Crayon (Apr 13, 2014)

twobytwo said:


> For the filter socks, does the drain from the display tank have to be shut down when cleaning them?


Nope! We have 10 socks on our sump (yeah, don't ask) and every week or so, I pull them, throw them in the washing machine, half an hour later tuck them back into the sump. I don't use soap or spin them in the washer, it's just a half hour cold wash, which is less time in the washing machine than doing them by hand.



twobytwo said:


> Ok - for the refugium... My understanding is that it's essentially a safe place for growing things (algae, snails, fry, etc...) - is there a benefit to the display (promotes beneficial bacteria, additional filtration, etc)? I would rather use limited space for better 'filtration' and positive biological-ness than to grow things.


There is a couple reasons for a fuge, and the most common is to grow small bugs that the picky fish, like mandarins eat. Some people use them for a time out for sick fish, but you can also use them for good water chemistry. I am not the chem nerd on our house, but what I understand is that when you have good algae in your fuge, like chaeto, and have your fuge light on reverse from the tank, then the algae is taking CO2 out of the water and making oxygen. So it helps the chemistry. It depends what you want to use the refugium for.



twobytwo said:


> With that being said, Crayon - you mention Nitra Cubes and GFO. If I have a section in the sump, after the skimmer and before return, do I just dump Nitra Cubes/Gfo/sand/rocks and whatever else in there or is there a bit of architecting in how the materials are placed in that section? .


Nitraguard wants water to pass over it, and it needs air bubbles. We tried putting it into one of the filter socks (thought that was a brilliant idea) but it actually ended up being too much flow for the beneficial bacteria. So our nitra cubes sat in a bag with an air stone in the middle of the sump, after the skimmer. Having said this....ask 10 people and you will get 10 answers. The GFO can also go in a bag where there is good water flow, and this is fine to start with, as long as it gets water passing through it. We used to put it on top of a filter pad that acts as a de bubbler. This worked really well, because all the water had to pass through it. However we moved it to a reactor and this worked better. It gave us more GFO for the volume of our tank.



twobytwo said:


> If you were building this setup, what specific products should I be shopping for based on my wants, to put in middle of my sump?


Baby steps. Read lots, ask lots, find out what the costs are, figure out what you are comfortable doing. If there was one way to do this, we would all be doing it that way........

Shall I say here, now, that we dumped our nitraguard last week to try a new product? Don't hold your breath. It will be a few months before we know if it will work or not. Other people do vodka dosing, and others will say that if you don't over feed, have the right balance of fish to poop to corals, that you don't need to do anything, and others will say it is more important to get your calcium, alkalinity and magnesium set up properly first.
All of which is true.



twobytwo said:


> Crayon - trying to get the wife involved.... right now she's more interested in selecting livestock than the actual engineering and chemistry of the tank... but I'm sure I can get her into it if I give her important tasks


That is an important task........fish management is really important and making sure you don't add something that you will never get out is REALLY IMPORTANT! or how to add a fish, and which fish goes in first, or last, and how many fish, so you don't add too many, and what if you want shrimp, then what fish can't I have. Or how big will it grow. Or will it hide in the rocks all day and never see it. Or how much it will cost.

I think you might just have to give up that job and leave it with her. Sounds like you are chemistry and engineering! Which is ok. cause all the cool toys are in chemistry and engineering. They don't invent new fish, but they sure do come out with some cool new toys every year........


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## twobytwo (Oct 25, 2014)

ameekplec. said:


> Depends on where you want the overflow to go which will depend somewhat on your sump layout. As for the size, it will depend on the return pump and flow rate you're using, but more likely than not 1 or 1.5" plumbing for the drains and 3/4" - 1" for the returns (the corresponding holes are bigger, obviously).


Ok, in regards to drain lines... does the intake to the sump have to be exactly the same? If I drill 1.5" bulkheads into the tank, do I need to find a sump for 1.5" intakes? I'm considering eshopps R300 which has 1" bulkheads for the intake - does the drain bulkheads have to match?

Am I going to run into problems if I drill 1.5" for possible future expansion but for now only use a sump with 1" in?


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## fesso clown (Nov 15, 2011)

There is no need to have bulkheads on the sump, making your own sump is very easy and will save you money to put towards a proper skimmer. 
here is the sump design I went with, made from a 40 breeder, very simple design and cost less that $100: It has a filter sock trey for easy removal of the socks or I can choose to not use them at all.


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## twobytwo (Oct 25, 2014)

Hey Fesso - I'm probably going the DIY route for my sump. Did you use glass or acrylic for the Baffles? Where did you get it cut, and did they make the part for the filter socks (making the holes and attaching the 3 pieces together)? Are you using a bean animal setup (3 filter socks...?).

Also a general update. I got rid of my old MDF stand - I think it's a stingray one so hopefully you understand how it wasn't appropriate for a sump.

I will be taking my tank (120xh) to Reefquarium in the next week or so for drilling. I'm going with 3 "drain" holes on the back at one end for a Bean animal setup with one drilled hole on the other end of the back for return.
-Will I be ok with 1" holes or am I better with 1.5" for a tank this size?
-Can someone simply confirm the holes can all be the same height on the tank. I understand I can play around a bit with PVC fittings at different heights, but would there be any reason to make one hole 1/2" or more lower (or higher) than the other holes? Would my return be at the same height (all 4 holes equal)?

After drilling, I will be resealing the silicon on the interior. Tank holds water fine but the black silicone looks a little chewed up at some parts and I'd rather use a clear silicon anyway.

I am also working on stand ideas. I'll probably end up DIYing it but because I'm in limited in construction ability by being in a condo, I'm just exploring if anyone has something already or wants to help build it with me. I'll try posting the design I'm thinking about later tonight.

Next steps will be planning out the sump I intend to DIY. Anyone have recommendations for size? I was aiming for something like a 30long but have been suggested a 40 breeder or even a 50/55 tank.


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## twobytwo (Oct 25, 2014)

Tank is drilled for Bean Animal. Thanks Ken from Reefquarium - I thought the pricing was reasonable (including bulkheads) and he took a chance on a tank of unknown origin. By the time I bought all the supplies needed to drill, I would have spent the same amount anyway.

Holes in order (in the pic) from left... 1" Emergency, 1.5" Siphon, 1.5" Open Channel and 3/4" return.










Next steps include re-sealing the interior. Tank holds water but the existing black silicon looks a bit chewed up and I'd rather go to a clear silicon.

Also - Getting the stand figured out (purchase, DIY, get someone to build...), plumbing supplies and Planning (at the moment) to DIY a sump. Hoping in the next few days to get a list of things I need so I can try to take advantage of Boxing Day sales.


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## J_T (Mar 25, 2011)

His baffles are glass, and I made the holder for the filter sock. It is just a flat piece that is sitting on a couple supports in the tank. You can see the support just under the sock plate in his picture


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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