# A Lesson Learned



## RevoBuda (Sep 3, 2011)

So, I like to think that I'm pretty good at taking care of my tanks. Since putting up my tanks again since last August I have only had one major heatlh issue with my fish in my primary 150 gallon community tank. That one issue I had was the dreaded Callamanus Worm, which pretty much wiped out my entire tank. Fortunately I learnt a lesson from then on to always quarantine new live stock for a minimum of 3 weeks. Ever since I engaged in this practice, I have not had any issues. Not to mention, I would also be very cautious about things such as nets not being used across tanks to avoid cross contamination.

After this most recent auction in Hamilton, I have learned a major lesson. Unfortunately, some of the fish that I purchased were infected with what I am now almost certain to be Culumnaris; since bringing them home they have all parished. Unfortunately, I did not follow my quarantine practice with all the fish purchased (only some) and I have paid dearly for my mistake and sudden mental lapse of logic. 

I have now lost several fish across both my show tanks, at least 10, and have been going crazy trying to curb and salvage my tanks and precious livestock. I am writing this because I recognize this not be one of my proudest moments, and I would like others to learn from my mishap. I'm not quite sure why I did not follow my normal routine and made such a big mental mistake. I am now paying for it; and so are my poor fish which I do hold dear.

So hopefully when all this is over, I will not have to restart again. I have been doing this since I was kid and for some reason I made such a mental blunder that I can't believe my stupidity. 

Anyway, I hope this helps someone out there!


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## Dman (May 1, 2012)

Mannn that sucks sooo much, are your discus still ok? Or is everything whipped out


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## Dman (May 1, 2012)

Lol your prob not the only one who's cought something in the hammer Bahaha


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## RevoBuda (Sep 3, 2011)

lol! Andrew! It's true, the hammer, I'm sure has many infectious diseases! 

3 discus down... hoping no more, seen some improvements over last couple days... hoping no more casualties.


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## RCode (Dec 12, 2010)

Hey buddy sorry about that...!

I have some Seachem Para Guard and 4 packs of Furan 2 you can try.

Look into the para guard it's kept some of my fish and shrimp nice and healthy


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## RevoBuda (Sep 3, 2011)

Sweet! I'll let you know if I need to go that route. Do you guys still have any Xmas moss? My buddy is looking for some.


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## Ciddian (Mar 15, 2006)

omg I am so sorry! I went through the worm issue myself after getting some fish off a friend. You don't really think to worry about that kind of stuff out of respect in a way.. but really friends, local auctions or not I really should QT myself.

I don't get new fish right now into my main tank because I know there is a problem with it still. Not worms.. my goodness, but still the odd issue.

I was treating one of my discus I had gotten from another buddy and the biggest one dropped, the sick one bounced back. I was so depressed... Discus are just so special..

I hope everything clears up for you soon :3


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## bettaforu (Sep 6, 2009)

I learned that lesson the hard way too! I had a gorgeous pair of Phillipine Blue Paraibas, young pair had just spawned for me and I was hatching some of the eggs.  I was going to show them at Octoberfish, as this pair was SPECTACULAR in appearance and finnage.

I was in Big Als in Oakville and happened to see some Electric Blue Rams...I thought they were gorgeous and being a fan of all Blue fish/invertebrates etc...I bought them.

In my excitement to get the 6 of them, I had a momentary lapse of brain power and floated them in the Angel tank...then later dumped them in there.

Next day I noticed a problem, but it still didn't register what the problem was..I noticed only 3 of the Rams were swimming around?  Where was the others, I figured they must be hiding in the driftwood as I saw them around there last night...maybe the Angels were harassing them~ next day another 1 was missing, but I couldn't see any bodies in the tank, so again didn't do a more thorough search.  Next day my 2 fancy black spotted Plecos were both dead 

That should have set off warning bells, but it didn't, so when I found the last one alone I took it out and it too died within the next few hours....THEN the last straw....came in the am and my two Angels were dead, both of them 

I was furious....I just LOST it...I KNEW I shouldn't have put those fish in that show tank, yet I went ahead and did it anyway, and Paid dearly for it!

I know where your at right now, and hopefully you can save some of your fish, maybe some of the meds people are offering to help stave off the nasties that have invaded your tanks. Will keep our fingers crossed you can save your fish. Good luck, keep us posted.


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## RevoBuda (Sep 3, 2011)

Thanks for all the replies guys... I am at a very fragile point right now. I will definitely keep you guys posted. I have been trying my best not to completely lose my sh!t here. 

Thanks for all the well wishes as well. Fingers crossed here.


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## splur (May 11, 2011)

What kind of fish do you have? I've never had experience with culumnaris, but I definitely don't want to start.


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## dragon1974 (Aug 27, 2012)

Sorry man, don't know what else to say......Dealing with a similar situation and know it is hard to flush them down the toilet...had 10 discus and lost 8 due to human error and something running a muck in my tank. Anyway things look to be a bit stable for the time. Good luck bossman I'll keep in touch


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## RevoBuda (Sep 3, 2011)

splur said:


> What kind of fish do you have? I've never had experience with culumnaris, but I definitely don't want to start.


Splur, I have Tetras, Corys, Rasboras, Danios and small rainbows in my 150 g.

UPDATE
So after keeping an eye on the tank, I have determined that culumnaris is probably a secondary infection. I have narrowed it down to either a parasitic infection or internal bacterial infection. I was able to determine this by analyzing the carcasses after cleaning them out of the tank.

Death count as of last night was 33 fish across all 4 tanks that I have (Including my 2 QTs).

My plan of attack is 2 fold, general cure dosing the tank and soaking metronidazole with their food to attack anything internal. Timeline is going to look like this: Wednesday night, 2nd dose of General Cure, Friday Night 25% Water Change. If tank is still in bad state by Thanksgiving I'm going to tear it apart and start fresh. I definitely don`t want to do this! But, by that point it will have been over 2 weeks of battling.

I have spent $150 on meds to this point... I do need to give a shout out to one of the managers over at BA`s North York, talked to him about my current situation and he gave me a few tabs of metronidazole from the back room and some excellent advice. I always appreciate when someone goes out of their way for me like that.

I recently watched the film The Grey and every time I walk down into my fish room I think about the poem Liam Neeson resights..."Once again into the fray / Into the last good fight I'll ever know/ Live and die on this day / Live and die on this day. "

I'm a sap like that anyway- I love my poetry and I found that small poem very impactful.

I'll keep you all posted, and thanks again for everyone being part of my support network out there on this challenge. I wouldn't trade in this hobby for anything! But times like this can be tough, that's for sure.


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## zfarsh (Apr 7, 2011)

Thank you for sharing your story and the nice reminder RevoBuda, and my condolenses for the losses, I cant believe how quickly the disease spread. I do have Formaldehyde and Potassium Permanganate if you need the big guns. I am in Oakville, but might come to Toronto on saturday.

While we are on the subject, how do you guys quarantine anyways? I just wanna hear the differenty ways people in this forum use.

I myself have a 10 gallon tank as hospital, and as one of my large fish is sick, i have been unable to buy new large fish for 2 months now. If this gets resolved, my qurantine tank will be availble.

In my 10 gallon tank, usually about the only med i use is Praziquantal, though i am considering .1 % salt, but not sure if it is good enough. If i dont see any physical signs on large (3 - 5") fish for 3 - 4 weeks, i then put them in my main tank. What about you guys, do you just watch and see, or do you indiscriminately use meds, and which ones, and is it bath, or in the tank. Would like to hear the experiences from long time fish keepers.

Another thing I do, is I dip plants in Potassium Permanganate for a while, if i know there was a sick fish in the tank, i have to leave overnight, and pray it is enough, as I have done recently. Some plants go brown / die though... I Dip Rocks in it too.

I also have a shrimp tank, which is also used partially as a quarantine for small fish, or at least i started doing it the past few weeks for a baby SAE and a few otos, as diseases would most likely not spread shrimps anyways. The problem is, some of my otos died, so i will have to keep the baby SAE with new incoming Otos (and other small fishes) for a long time untill no new fish is introduced before being able to transfer the SAE into my main tank, and not sure if i should requarantine it alone in the hospital tank with Prazy for a week before introducing to my main tank.

A few things i do, is that i do share the nets between tanks... so that has to stop.


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## Lee_D (Jun 11, 2010)

What fish did you buy at the auction? Of the list of fish in your tank I think the only one i saw at the auction was the small rainbows. I bought two bags of the rainbows and of the nine fish I only lost two. Not bad I figure for spending a day in a bag.

I don't normally use a quarantine tank because once I set them up they always end up with fish in them. This time they ended up in a tank with just a Garra so it is essentially a quarantine tank. I am at this point, rather concerned about moving them however.

Lee


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## RevoBuda (Sep 3, 2011)

zfarsh said:


> I do have Formaldehyde and Potassium Permanganate if you need the big guns. I am in Oakville, but might come to Toronto on saturday.


Thank you very much! I will keep it in mind, as of right now tank hasn't had any more losses.



zfarsh said:


> While we are on the subject, how do you guys quarantine anyways? I just wanna hear the differenty ways people in this forum use.
> 
> A few things i do, is that i do share the nets between tanks... so that has to stop.


Normally I keep fish in a 10 Gallon or 5 gallon (depending on size of fish or number of fish) monitor them over the course of 3 weeks, if all is clear, and they eat well, show no signs of issues, I release them into general population. If during those three weeks something springs up, I treat it accordingly. Once that clears, the process starts again, 3 weeks clean before adding to general pop.

I try not to go straight to medication because from my readings, I understand fish can have immunity to meds if over prescribed. I don't want them to have less affect if I need to resort to them later. Also, depending on the fish (ie Discus) you don't want to stress them either.



Lee_D said:


> What fish did you buy at the auction? Of the list of fish in your tank I think the only one i saw at the auction was the small rainbows. I bought two bags of the rainbows and of the nine fish I only lost two. Not bad I figure for spending a day in a bag.
> 
> I don't normally use a quarantine tank because once I set them up they always end up with fish in them. This time they ended up in a tank with just a Garra so it is essentially a quarantine tank. I am at this point, rather concerned about moving them however.
> 
> Lee


At this auction, I bought several cories, whip tail cats, (all healthy from Charlie's [Bwhiskered] Stock, always healthy! Never had an issue with his stuff)

But I also got 3 Blue Rams, and 2 Blue Gularis Killis and man... do I wish I was smart enough to keep them QT'd first.

I would strongly recommend quaratining. I made it a ritual especially due to the size of my tanks. Considering with my 2 show tanks and 2 qt's I have roughly 300 Gallons of water to treat when this kind of thing occurs. By the way, if the fish are truly healthy, you shouldn't lose 1, being in a bag all day doesn't gaurantee losing fish. If the fish are healthy and bagged properly, once you get home and properly acclimate them you shouldn't lose any.


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

Fwiw, Otos can be very fragile, though if they'd come from a stable tank where they'd lived several months, they shouldn't be any more fragile than most other fish. It's the ones just shipped after being caught and held that tend to die quickly, usually from starvation.
I am another one who did not always keep a QT.. and while my lesson was perhaps not so devastating as yours, Revo, it still hurt to find a batch of new fish all dead within days for no obvious reason, and a couple of the ones that I'd had for awhile along with them. 

It can be difficult to keep a QT just for the purpose. There's such a temptation to put fish in them ! But we should try to resist, and keep one strictly QT.. just in case. Better to lose just the new fish, and not all the other fish too. 
Keeping my fingers crossed all goes well.. good of you to post this..I think many of us are not as careful as we should be when we get new fishes, or even new plants for that matter.


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## Amazongypsy (Oct 21, 2010)

zfarsh said:


> While we are on the subject, how do you guys quarantine anyways? I just wanna hear the differenty ways people in this forum use.


Quarantine time is relative to type/condition of fish and which tank/tankmates it will be added to. 
Plants and fish get a HP bath immediately when coming out of bag.
May be a little overkill but I have kept new incoming discus/angels in quarantine for 3months while they are debugged for worms, hex and parasites with Angelsplus medicated flake foods. Then I used a pilot fish in the quarantine tank just to be sure.Only then can they enter the fishroom!! Luckily I do not bring fish in often anymore.
Auction fish purchased(typically bottomfeeders)are also debugged but only quarantined for 6 weeks if all is well. I have had problems with cories.
Fish I bring to sell at auction are debugged prior, my due diligence
I have also learned the hard way, several times, and understand the need to get new fish into our showtanks for our pleasure

OP, have you tried HP baths for affected fish? You are welcomed to anything I have that you think might help. I am not in GTA but I could send. Don't be too hard on yourself,we've all done it...several times.


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## zfarsh (Apr 7, 2011)

What's an HP bath?


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## Tino (Sep 10, 2012)

Hydrogen Peroxide (3%), typically 2oz for every 10 gallons
But HP is an invertebrate killer so use only on fish


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## Amazongypsy (Oct 21, 2010)

HP is Hydrogen Peroxide(H2O2). Great for external parasites and bacteria.
As a bath I use 2ml per gallon for4hours with airline, no filter.


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## Amazongypsy (Oct 21, 2010)

Tino said:


> Hydrogen Peroxide (3%), typically 2oz for every 10 gallons
> But HP is an invertebrate killer so use only on fish


Looks like we were posting at same time
Another caution..it will kill your bio filter so use quarantine tank/bucket


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## zfarsh (Apr 7, 2011)

Hey, wow, i never hurd of that, for meds anyways on fish for quarantine...

I have a sick goldfish in hospital tank, maybe i should try this before using the very heavy guns on it...

Do you use food grade perox, or just standard. I do have 35% food grade, which i guess i will convert some to 3%, but just curious what you guys were using. Wow, this should be really easy for me, for all new incoming fish, thanks so much, i never thoughts about this. I could also give them Prazy in the hospital tank as a bonus as its harmless, and .1% salt maybe (not sure abotu the salt yet, what do you think?)

So put the fish in a 5 gallon bucket with 2 gallon water, and 4ml Hydrogen Perox 3%, with an airline, for about 4 hours. If the fish is very sick, ie bottom sitting for 2 months, would you use a higher dosage? Also, do you repeat the treatment every day or other day (same question, but for new fish, how often would you do this if the fish looks fine)?


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## zfarsh (Apr 7, 2011)

While we are on the subject, what do you use on new plants and how long? I am using Potassium Perox.


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## Amazongypsy (Oct 21, 2010)

zfarsh said:


> Hey, wow, i never hurd of that, for meds anyways on fish for quarantine...
> 
> I have a sick goldfish in hospital tank, maybe i should try this before using the very heavy guns on it...
> 
> ...


I have used 3% peroxide and salt in a bath concurrently for colmunaris with good results(once daily).Dips can be done with higher concentrations. 
New incoming fish/plants get one bath/dip only if all looks well.
I would not mix prazi with peroxide.
I have no experience with goldfish however I would think if bottom sitting for 2 months probably an internal problem.
Potassium permagrante as a dip for plants is great...keep the water pink and don't use prime as it will neutralize PP.

OP, how are things today? It is so upsetting when a tank is off and we feel helpless for our fish. This illness will pass and you will have gained more knowledge and experience. Keep your chin up!


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## RevoBuda (Sep 3, 2011)

*UPDATE*

Death count is at 37 (3 more dead last night) and 3 fish now sitting in a seperate quaratine as they are showing raised scales and body sores. I dosed my 2nd Round of general cure last night.

It seems the battle will still be up hill. Friday night I will be doing a water change and that will be the end of this treatment term. I will keep you all posted.

Once again, thank you for all the offers of help and the support! I will definitely take you up on your offers if it comes down to nuking the tank with other meds.

Also, a shout out to my Newmarket BA's- incredible support from the fish room manager and staff. I appreciate everyone's help!


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## KhuliLoachFan (Mar 8, 2008)

A dedicated cycled quarantine tank adds more to my enjoyment and ability to relax and just experience the hobby than any other practice, second only to regular water changes. Yeah, I've been lazy too, and when I was, I got schooled. :-(

Sorry for your losses!

W


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## RevoBuda (Sep 3, 2011)

*UPDATE*

Did a massive water change today, no deaths for another full day. I am still feeding with Metro soaked foods. I will continue this process until Sunday. Hopefully it's over. The 3 in quarantine are looking better and eating. Hopefully I can put this behind me.


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## RevoBuda (Sep 3, 2011)

*UPDATE*

So far we're doing great. No fish lost in 3 days! I will continue feeding with metro until Tuesday / Wednesday. I am absolutely thrilled! Hopefully we're out of the woods now!

I appreciate all your input and if the shit hits the fan again, I will definitely call upon your offers. I appreciate everyone's support.

Cheers to all you great guys out there who helped out! The BA's managers at North York and Newmarket! My boy JediWiggles who kept me sane during our bbm chats over my stresses. I will never, ever, not QT again. I have 5 new nets on order and I will be getting seperate containers for them so that I may keep them seperate for each tank. I will also label them accordingly.

Happy Thanksgiving Everyone!


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## Jackson (Jan 30, 2009)

Holly crap! so sorry to see this has happened 

I hope the rest do well. 

Happy thanksgiving


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## mousey (Mar 28, 2011)

Hey Revo, Sorry to hear about this. This was what happened to me a couple of years ago. Multi problems after fish from B.A's.
Sometimes though q's don't always work. Have q'd fish before only to have the new ones die in my tank so what ever was indiginous to my tank was too much for the new fish. Still i agree that q'ing is a good idea.
( But I didn't Q yours!!)


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## zfarsh (Apr 7, 2011)

Hey Mousy, was it just the new fish that died, or your whole collection of fish that you had already? The point of QT is more to save the existing fish than the new one, which could also die from low-aclimatization or stress, in which case it wont take all the other fish with it. Also, how long did you QT for, cause 3 - 4 weeks is the recommended minumum, and i agree with it when its bought from large petstores such as big al.


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## mousey (Mar 28, 2011)

New fish and old. Actually 1 of the new fish made it as well as my old (6 years)pleco.
Within 24 hours the bettas were covered in a white slime that took off their skin and finnage. The old cories hemmorhaged out, the new fish just died usually with no marks on them. The pleco had ulcers all over his body.
I got him out real quick and gave him tetracycline and 100% water change every day until he had no damage on him. I kept the last little fish and rehomed it and the tank it was in.
This was 2 years ago and I haven't bought anything from B A's since other than food.


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## zfarsh (Apr 7, 2011)

Hi Mousey,

thanks for sharing. How long did you quarantine the fish for? Btw, i have decided recently to only buy fish from Menagerie, Aqua Inspiration, or Fish Raisers or fellow GTA Members / small shops that are reputable. That wont apply to shrimps / snails / products though, as they cant really transfer their stuff to the fish.


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## mousey (Mar 28, 2011)

In this case I did not q them at all- unfortunately. They all seemed very energetic and healthy!.

I have had mixed results with quaranteening before. It does not always work even after a month.


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