# KH,GH and shrimp



## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

I have always thought most of the common Neos, Cherry, Snowballs, etc., are happier in alkaline water with a reasonably high calcium content. So I've also thought that meant KH at a reasonable level, GH also at reasonable level. I know they can adapt to a fair range, but what would be ideal if you could keep it at ideal parameters ?

I know some of the Bee and Crystals are kept at much lower KH values, lower pH, etc., which is one reason I don't keep them, as for now it is more work than I care to get into, never mind the investment in the shrimp.

Ran across a site that lists parameters for many shrimp. It advises a KH of zero for cherries, among some others. How can you maintain stable pH with KH of zero ? Site is here. http://shrimpkeeping.com/water-params/

One explanation for this, that I read, said that in nature, shrimp breed when the rainy season comes, and the diluting effect of rainwater lowers the KH of their ponds or streams to zero or close to it, for that period of time, which does seem to make sense. Yet I also hear of moulting problems and other issues related to lack of calcium in both diet and the water column in our tanks, which are of course artificial systems, not much like anything shrimp would find in nature, though we try our best to give them what they need.

Can somebody comment on this please, I am becoming confused.


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## Shrimp Daddy (Mar 30, 2013)

KH is very important in shrimp keeping.


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## shrimpzoo (Jan 15, 2012)

Fishfur said:


> I have always thought most of the common Neos, Cherry, Snowballs, etc., are happier in alkaline water with a reasonably high calcium content. So I've also thought that meant KH at a reasonable level, GH also at reasonable level. I know they can adapt to a fair range, but what would be ideal if you could keep it at ideal parameters ?
> 
> I know some of the Bee and Crystals are kept at much lower KH values, lower pH, etc., which is one reason I don't keep them, as for now it is more work than I care to get into, never mind the investment in the shrimp.
> 
> ...


Well first off, on the website it says a range of 0-10 not just 0 for Cherries.

And since kH is a measure of the amount of carbonate (CO3-) and bicarbonate (HCO3-) dissolved in your water... how much kH in your water means its ability to "buffer", which keeps your pH stable.

The way we maintain stable pH for Crystals when kH is 0 is because we have an active substrate that keeps out pH at a certain level.

We want it 0 because when we use RO water that may have a different pH than we desire, the substrate can easily and quickly change the RO water's pH to our desired pH.

Also, molting occurs when shrimp sense a change in parameters. That is why you will have shrimp instantly molt when you buy from someone else and put them into your tank generally or during a water change.

And when molting occurs breeding will usually occur as well. So rainwater dilutes the gH and kH that exists in the lake and bam.


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## bettaforu (Sep 6, 2009)

A trick I learned from a longtime shrimp breeder....when you do a water change, make the temp a few degrees cooler, and pour your water all across the surface of your tank, as if it is raining.

It sometimes tricks the shrimps into thinking its raining, because rain water is usually cooler on the surface and makes splashes, signaling the fish/shrimps to molt/spawn.

I also believe they can sense atmospheric pressure changes too as many will breed after a thunderstorm.


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

So it's a range, not just one ideal number, in terms of KH, for most of the Neos ? 

The main reason I asked was because someone asked a similar question on another forum I'm on. His local water was soft and acidic, and he wanted to know why his cherries weren't doing so well. I suggested raising the KH and GH to help maintain a higher pH, and was told I was wrong to advise raising the KH, that only GH should be raised.

Heaven knows, I'm no expert, but I don't like the idea I might have given someone the wrong information. 

What about GH ? I know that's general hardness, IIRC, it measures both calcium and, magnesium ? I'd always thought both KH and GH were important for Neos, and for snails for that matter, for their shells to grow well.

So I wasn't asking so much for my own shrimp. My Fire Red's appear to be breeding well enough. I have a few other species in with them, so it's sometimes hard to see if anybody is berried, or whether a new brood's arrived, until the babies are larger and easier to see. For now their tank is on a low stand, and viewing it is awkward, but they seem happy enough with the parameters of GTA tap water.

I know about the effect of thunderstorms, many of the tips I see for inducing spawning in fish call for a large WC, quite a bit cooler water, early in the morning on a day a storm is due. If only mama nature would cooperate when you'd like her to in terms of providing weather fronts. 

Interesting tip for faking the effect of rainwater during a WC.. thanks for that Anna.


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

Fishfur said:


> The main reason I asked was because someone asked a similar question on another forum I'm on. His local water was soft and acidic, and he wanted to know why his cherries weren't doing so well. I suggested raising the KH and GH to help maintain a higher pH, and was told I was wrong to advise raising the KH, that only GH should be raised.


Nah, the correct answer is, he should raise crystals instead of cherries.


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

Too true.. but he already had cherries. Research first.. but so many don't.


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## BillD (Jun 5, 2006)

Tommy Lam (from Shrimp Fever) did a nice presentation on keeping shrimp at the DRAS meeting last night. He covered the parameters for both Neocardina and Cardina. The key for me is if you want easy , stick with Neocardina (like Fire Reds) which do fine in tap water, and with an inert substrate (clearly more inexpensive). If you like the idea of playing water chemist, keep Cardina species, like Crystals.


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

And sometimes you run into folks giving advice that just don't want to know about other opinions, and will never change their minds.

I agree, BillD, keeping animals suited to the water you have is much simpler. So I keep Neos and fan shrimp that like the hard water, not Crystals.

I just didn't want to give bad advice.. I try to get it right, and I don't mind learning if I'm wrong.. better to learn and get it right.


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