# Sticky  Pressurized CO2: How to Guide



## Darkblade48

So, there have been a lot of threads (it seems) lately regarding pressurized CO2. Hopefully, this primer will help alleviate any fears that people have when starting to delve into CO2 as it can be quite intimidating at first. In addition, hopefully this primer will answer some of the most commonly asked questions regarding pressurized CO2.

As this thread will be discussing how to set up a pressurized CO2 system, advantages/disadvantages of using a pressurized setup versus a DIY (yeast) CO2 system will not be discussed in this primer. For more information, please take a look here:

https://gtaaquaria.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11247#4

On to pressurized CO2!

First, when people refer to pressurized CO2, we often read that we will need a "regulator" or a "regulator build." What does this mean exactly? This term is thrown around quite loosely in the aquarium hobby, but a pressurized CO2 system consists of more than just a regulator.

Here are the essential pieces of equipment you will need:

*1) A CO2 cylinder*
CO2 cylinders come in various sizes. They are often used in paintball guns (usually sold as 20 oz cans). They also come in 2.5, 5, 10 and 20 lb sizes (larger sizes such as 50 lb tanks do exist, but they are quite large and bulky, and are not commonly sold outside of specialty applications).

CO2 tanks come with a fitting known as a CGA320 fitting, which is standard in North America. Europe and Asia use different industrial standards. Paintball tanks, however, do not come with this fitting, and come with a pin depression type valve. More on this will follow below.

Many people believe that getting a small, paintball CO2 tank is "cheaper", however, this is not usually the case. Regulators (see below) often come with CGA320 fittings (or can be adapted to such). However, as paintball tanks do not contain this CGA320 fitting, normal regulators cannot be used, and you must purchase either a special regulator with the required fitting, or look around for a paintball tank to CGA320 adapter (often, quite difficult to find). In addition, refill costs for CO2 tanks are generally not much different. The refill cost for (say) a 5 lb tank and 10 lb tank may only be a few dollars different. For example, I can get my 10 lb tank refilled for $17.50, while a 20 oz paintball tank may cost $5 to refill. In addition, the larger the CO2 tank, the longer you can go without refilling the tank, etc. It can be quite a hassle to drive out and refill the tank, depending on where you live. The general piece of advice is to *get the largest tank that you can afford and/or is feasible for the space that you have.*

Here are some popular CO2 tank sources, as well as their contact information:

*Camcarb*
155 Signet Drive
North York, Ontario
M9L 1W9 
Tel: (416) 745-1304
http://www.camcarb.com/Home.html

*Norwood Fire Extinguisher Co*
62 Advance Rd
Etobicoke ON, M8Z 2T7
Phone #: 416-239-7357
Fax: (416) 745-6844

*Hydrotech Hydroponics (2 locations)*
Scarborough Location
2434 Kingston Road
Toronto, Ontario
416.267.GROW

Markham Location
66 Bullock Drive, Unit 1
Markham, Ontario
905.201.9939

http://www.hydrotechhydroponics.com/

*Herbert Williams*
70 Ironside Crescent, Unit 1, 2 & 3
Scarborough, Ontario 
M1X 1G4
416-292-8630

*Dry Ice & Gases*
50 Titan Rd,
Etobicoke, Ontario
M8Z 2J8
(416) 252-7137

*Premium Fire Protection*
717 Wilson Rd S #6,
Oshawa, ON 
L1H 6E9
905-436-3473

Regarding the pricing, I have found that Norwood has the cheapest pricing on CO2 tanks.

*Updated:* A 10 lb at Norwood is $85 (out of date price), and $185 (up to date as of July 2020) at Camcarb. Hydrotech Hydroponics only sells 20 lb tanks, but they can order different sized tanks for you (upon request). However, be aware that they simply call up Camcarb and ask them to deliver the tanks to them, and they will charge you extra on top of Camcarb's CO2 tank pricing.

*Regarding refills*: Only Dry Ice & Gases are open on Saturday, all the other stores listed above are only open Monday - Friday. 
For a 10 pound cylinder, the refill costs are as follows (as of October 23 2012):
Camcarb $30.45 + tax (updated July 2020)
Norwood $20 + tax (out of date)
Herbert Williams: $36.33 + tax (out of date)
Dry Ice & Gases: $25.80 + tax (out of date)


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## Darkblade48

*2) Regulator*

The next piece of essential equipment we will require for a pressurized CO2 setup is the *regulator.*

A regulator takes the tank pressure of the CO2 tank (normally at ~850 PSI or more, depending on the ambient temperature) and reduces it to a lower pressure.

We normally look for a regulator with *two gauges.* This means there are two pressure dials. The first pressure dial (high pressure dial) will indicate the pressure in the CO2 tank (i.e. the amount of CO2 that is remaining in the tank). The second pressure dial (low pressure dial, also known as the delivery pressure), will be the pressure that the regulator is bringing the CO2 down to. This is usually set anywhere from 5-20 PSI, depending on the size of your tank, and the desired bubble rate.

Sometimes, we also here the term *dual stage* used. Note that *dual stage* and *dual gauge* are *not* the same. These terms are sometimes used interchangeably, but this is *incorrect.* Dual stage refers to an additional body within the regulator that allows the pressure to be dropped in two stages, hence the name. Here are two figures that show the differences between the two:

Single stage regulator:









Dual stage regulator:









As the finer details are beyond the scope of this primer, more information regarding the differences can be found over at the Barr Report, where Left C and I are quite active as well.

http://www.barrreport.com/showthread.php/6470-Dual-Stage-Regulators

There has been a lot of debate over whether a single stage regulator or a dual stage regulator is best. There are often stories about people encountering "end of tank dump" (when the CO2 tank pressure begins to drop, there is sometimes a phenomenon in which all the CO2 will suddenly rush out of the tank, ending up in your aquarium and subsequently gassing all your fish to death) when using a single stage regulator. Some people will blame this on the regulator, while others will point out that it was a combination of a single stage regulator and a poor needle valve. Yet others will point out that despite having a single stage regulator and a sub-standard needle valve, they have yet to encounter "end of tank dump".

In the end, whether you purchase a single or dual stage regulator is up to you; dual stage regulators are the "premium" regulators, and will work reliably for our purposes. Single stage regulators will also work well for our purposes, and are often cheaper than dual stage regulators (more on this later).

Some good brands that I recommend:

Single stage regulators:
Cornelius
Micromatic
Victor

Dual stage regulators:
Concoa
Matheson
Victor

Finally, when purchasing your CO2 regulator, regardless whether it is a single or a dual stage regulator, be sure that you have the correct fitting (CGA320), or else it will not fit the CO2 tank. Sometimes, you may be able to find cheap regulators on eBay (more on this below) that do not have the correct fitting (most commonly found are those with a CGA580 fitting, used for nitrogen ). If this is the case, you can take off the fitting and replace with the appropriate CGA320 fitting.


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## Darkblade48

*3) Needle/Metering Valve*

The next piece of equipment that is essential is the *needle/metering valve.*

A needle valve is a piece of equipment that takes the delivery pressure of the regulator and further drops the pressure down to the very fine flow rate that we require for aquarium purposes (i.e. we often refer to our flow rates as "bubbles per second"). A metering valve is the "high end" needle valve.

Needle valves work by restricting the flow of gas via a small needle (hence the name) that can be opened/closed via a screw/caliper handle. In general, higher quality needle valves/metering valves will have allow finer control by having more threads. This means that it takes more turns of the handle to change the flow of CO2, meaning you get finer resolution (i.e. if you turn a needle valve 1 turn and get an increase from 1 bubble per second to 10 bubbles per second, you would have a hard time adjusting your flow. However, if you turn another needle valve 1 turn and only get an increase from 1 bubble to 2 bubbles per second, you can achieve much finer control).

A good quality needle/metering valve is essential. This is definitely one piece of equipment you do not want to be stingy on.

Here are some brands that I recommend:
Fabco (particularly the NV55)*
Ideal (particularly the 52-1-11)**
Swagelok (many various models available)
Parker (also many various models available)

For those that are more technically inclined, have a look at the thread over at the Barr Report (linked above), as it discusses the finer points of a quality needle/metering valve (i.e. best Cv to look for, etc)

One brand of needle valve that I would *strongly advise against* is the Clippard needle valve (Part #: MNV-4K2) . While it is quite cheap (perhaps $18, if ordered online), many users have lamented that the quality of this particular needle valve leaves much to be desired. A common problem with this needle valve is that it "floats." This means that while you set the CO2 flow rate to a particular setting one day, the next day (or perhaps within a few hours!), the CO2 flow rate will change noticeably, requiring more fiddling on your part. This means that while you set your CO2 to an "optimal" flow rate one day, the flow might stop the next day, or it might be so high that it will gas all your fish to death. Definitely, this is something you want to avoid, so do not be stingy on a quality needle valve.

Here is a source (Thanks Mr. Fishies) for a some dealers in Mississauga:

*Clippard Dealer*
Wainbee Limited
5789 Coopers Avenue
Mississauga, ON L4Z 4S6
(905) 568-1700

*Fabco Dealer*
Sempress Canada Ltd
3580A Wolfedale Road
Mississauga, Ontario
(905) 949-2324

Effective November 23, 2012

9-3250 Ridgeway Drive
Mississauga, Ontario
L5L 5Y6

Phone: 905.606.2324
Fax: 905.606.2544

Air & Hydraulic Supplies
2200 Markham Road
Toronto, ON 
M1B 2W4 
(416) 321-8884 ‎

Here is a pricing for the NV55 needle valve (as of 2009)

Fabco Needle Valve
P/N: NV-55
$39.99 (Sempress)

$30.00 + tax (Air & Hydraulic)

*Note 1: The Fabco NV55 contains #10/32 fittings. These are not your standard fittings and adapters cannot be purchased at the hardware store. The setup I would recommend is to have #10/32 to hose barb fittings *and not* trying to find #10/32 to (say) 1/8" NPT adapters. This is because attempting to attach the Fabco NV55 to the regulator is not a good idea. The Fabco NV55 is quite a heavy needle valve, and the #10/32 fittings are quite small and fragile, so a slight bump may cause the fitting to break. With the hose barb adapters, you can run this needle valve in-line.

**Note 2: This particular Ideal metering valve has 1/8" female NPT ports on both ends. Other models exist, and I can also forward you the PDF/website with the particular details if you require/PM me.


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## svtcanuk

Phenomenal write-up, I know many people will get good use out of this. Can anyone say sticky! Again great job.


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## Darkblade48

*Optional (?) Parts*

Here now, are the optional parts of a pressurized CO2 setup. While the aforementioned CO2 tank, regulator and needle valve are absolutely essential, the following pieces of equipment, while totally optional, are *highly recommended.*

These are:

4) Solenoid
5) Bubble Counter
6) Diffuser
7) Drop Checker
8) Miscellaneous equipment (check valve, airline tubing)
9) "Luxury" items (pH controller)

Let us begin with *4) Solenoid*

A solenoid is an electronically controlled valve that opens/closes depending on whether electricity is flowing through it or not. For pressurized CO2 purposes, we normally use a "normally closed" solenoid. This means that when there is no electricity, the solenoid is closed, and no CO2 flows. When there is electricity, the solenoid is open, and CO2 flows.

A solenoid provides the option of putting your CO2 onto a timer and/or a pH controller, so that your CO2 will turn on/off automatically. This is beneficial, as it can prolong the amount of time your CO2 will last (i.e. rather than having it on for 24 hours, you can turn it off at night, when plants are no longer photosynthesizing).

Here are some good solenoid brands that I can recommend (in no particular order):
Burkert (Model #: 6011, 6011A or 2822)*
Clippard (Model #: MME-2PDS-D110)*
Fabco (Model #: 3853-04-A287)*
Parker

Of these 3, the Clippard is the only one (as far as I know) that has the handy feature of having a red LED that indicates when the solenoid is open, and CO2 is flowing. However, many users have reported that the solenoid does get quite warm (sometimes to the point where you cannot leave your hand on it comfortably). The other three brands do not seem to have this overheating issue, but also do not possess the same LED.

Most solenoids run ~$30

Here is some more information (Thanks Mr. Fishies):

From Sempress Canada (Fabco Dealer):

Fabco Directional Control Valve
P/N: 3853-O4-A287
$26.85

Prices as of 2012.

*Note: These model numbers are for solenoids with a 1/8" female NPT ports on either side. If you wish to have different port sizes, I can forward you the PDF with the appropriate information.

*Note 2: Here is a data sheet for the Fabco solenoid for those that are interested

http://www.fabco-air.com/pdf/bulletin_14CAN_web.pdf


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## Darkblade48

*5) Bubble Counter*

The next piece of equipment we will discuss is the *Bubble Counter.*

A bubble counter allows us to easily determine the flow rate of the CO2 that is going into the aquarium. We often refer to the flow rate as "bubbles per second." The bubble counter is filled with fluid (it can be water, glycerin, or even mineral oil. The latter two are sometimes preferred because bubbles flow through the liquid slower, making it easier to count. In addition, they do not evaporate like water does), and as gas flows through, bubbles are generated so that you can count your bubble rate.

Many different types of bubble counters exist, from in-line ones, to DIY ones, to commercially bought bubble counters. They all perform the same function, at different costs. Some people prefer one over the other due to aesthetics, size constraints, etc., but in the end, they perform the same function.

Not much else to say on this piece of equipment


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## Byronicle

great advice

i hope this is stickied


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## Darkblade48

*6) Diffuser*

An effective method of introducing CO2 into your tank is also required. If CO2 bubbles are reaching the surface of the water in your aquarium, then much of it is being lost and you are not getting CO2 dissolved into your water column. As such, an effective method of getting CO2 to dissolve is required.

From my previous article, I will just copy/paste the various methods of getting CO2 into your water:

1) Bell Diffuser: A passive method of CO2 diffusion, this relies on the assumption that CO2 will dissolve into the water column faster than the CO2 is produced (not likely). Not an effective method of introducing CO2 into the aquarium.
2) Feeding the CO2 tube into a filter intake: Slightly more efficient, this method allows the CO2 bubbles to be fed into the intake of a filter, allowing the bubbles to be chopped up by the filter impeller. Be warned that this method is said to shorten the lifespan of the filter impeller.
3) Commercially available "bubble ladders": Hagen makes a product that is known as "bubble ladder". This product allows CO2 bubbles to travel a long a track, allowing the CO2 more time to dissolve into the water column. The ladder is quite large and bulky (in my opinion), and some people may find it aesthetically unpleasing.
4) Ceramic disc diffuser: Typically a glass diffuser that contains a ceramic disc with miniature pores. These diffusers were first made by ADA (Aqua Design Amano). Such diffusers rely on the small pores on the ceramic disc to adequately create mini-CO2 bubbles, vastly increasing the rate of CO2 dissolution in water.
5) Inline CO2 reactor: Most arguably the best method of CO2 dissolution, the inline CO2 reactor is inline with a (canister) filter output. Using this method, the CO2 is very effectively dissolved.


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## Darkblade48

*7) Drop Checker*

Most likely the newest addition to measuring CO2 levels, a drop checker consists of an airspace between the liquid inside the drop checker and the water in the aquarium. Carbon dioxide readily diffuses outwards from water into the air; as such, the carbon dioxide in the aquarium will readily diffuse into the airspace in the drop checker. The liquid inside the drop checker contains a solution of known kH (i.e. 4 or 5 dkH) with an indicator (bromothymol blue (BTB)) which serves as a good indicator of CO2 dissolution. The CO2 that is in the airspace of the drop checker will readily diffuse into the drop checker solution, changing the colour of the BTB indicator.

Different drop checkers exist today. Red Sea makes one, ADA makes one, Cal Aqua makes several, some can be found on eBay etc. Of course, you can also DIY one yourself. They all work essentially the same, and perform the same function. Some people prefer one brand over the other due to aesthetics and/or ease of comparing the colours.

Here are some instructions for making your own DIY drop checker.

http://gtaaquaria.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11247#5

In addition to a drop checker, a reference solution is required when using a drop checker. This is usually a 4 dkH reference solution, but it can also be a 3 or a 5 dkH reference solution. The different dkH reference solutions will turn green (in the presence of BTB) at different CO2 levels (for example, the 4 dkH reference solution turns green at 30 ppm of CO2).

Sometimes, you may find instructions that come with purchased drop checkers to use aquarium water, distilled water, or even tap water. These instructions are *incorrect and should be ignored.* If you do not use a reference solution, you will get incorrect results when using a drop checker.

Many people (mistakenly) believe that the pH/kH/CO2 relationship is the end-all for measuring CO2 levels. They believe that by measuring the pH and kH of the aquarium water, they will know their CO2 levels. However, *this is not the case.*

The pH/kH/CO2 relationship can *only* be used if carbonates are the only buffers in the water. However, in the aquarium, there are other factors that will affect this kH reading (such as phosphate buffers). As a result, the pH/kH/CO2 relationship *cannot be used with tank water, tap water, or distilled water.*

When making a dkH reference solution, we are only adding carbonates to the water, so only here can we make valid conclusions using the pH/kH/CO2 relationship.

Instructions for making your own 4 dkH reference solution are also in the link above


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## Darkblade48

*8) Miscellaneous Equipment (Check valve, airline tubing)*

Here, we will cover miscellaneous equipment (this maybe considered essential!)

*a) Check valve*
Placing a check valve is important to prevent a back siphon from occurring. If water were to back siphon, it could go back through the needle valve, destroying your regulator diaphragm. To protect your investment, a check valve provides good protection for a few dollars.

Plastic check valves work fine, but will harden with time (the CO2 makes the plastic brittle), rendering the check valve useless. It is worthwhile to invest a bit more in a brass check valve, as these will not become brittle like their plastic counterparts.

*b) Airline tubing*
Of course, without airline tubing, you would not be able to get the CO2 from your CO2 tank into your aquarium, so it goes without saying that you will require airline tubing.

The type of tubing does not really matter. I have used your standard vinyl airline tubing as well as your standard silicone airline tubing. Both work fine for our purposes. Some people will point out that silicone tubing is thousands of times more permeable to CO2 than other types of material (there is a website out there with a table showing permeabilization of the various materials). However, given the low pressures at which we work, and the relatively short distances of tubing (say 10-20 feet, at most), the amount of CO2 gas that is loss through silicone tubing is negligible.

While you can purchase CO2 resistant tubing, I find this to be an unnecessary expense.


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## Darkblade48

*9) Luxury Items*

The last part covers what I consider to be "luxury" items, or completely optional parts (unlike the above).

*pH controller*
A pH controller (such as those made by Milwaukee) will allow you to determine the pH of your aquarium water on a continual basis. By hooking up the pH controller to a solenoid (which is part of your CO2 system), you can have your pH controller inject CO2 when your pH goes above a certain set point, and have it stop injecting CO2 when your pH drops below a certain set point.

In my opinion, this is completely unnecessary. I believe too much emphasis on aquarium fish requiring the "perfect pH" has been placed in our hobby, leading beginners to believe that certain fish can only be kept at a pH of 6.4, or 7.0, etc.

Perhaps if you are keeping extremely sensitive fish, with very exacting water parameters required, would I see a need for a pH controller. The cost of the controller, probe and the calibration solutions are also quite expensive, but if cost is not an issue for you, then this may be a piece of equipment you would want to consider.


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## Darkblade48

*Pre-built setups versus building your own*

Here, we will discuss pre-built regulators versus putting your own pressurized CO2 system together.

Various pre-built regulators exist on the market today. Most commonly seen are the Milwaukee, Azoo, and JBJ pre-builds. These often come with the regulator, solenoid, needle valve, and perhaps a bubble counter, and are often quite cheap.

However, the one complaint that many users have with these pre-built pressurized CO2 setups is that the stock needle valve "floats." As mentioned before (see the section on needle valves), floating occurs when you set a particular flow rate, but it changes due to the poor construction of the needle valve.

Quality pre-built pressurized CO2 setups do exist, however. Rex Grigg, Orlando (who runs Green Leaf Aquariums) and Mike/Sergio (who run SuMo) all have excellent pre-built pressurized CO2 setups. Here are their respective websites:

http://www.bestaquariumregulator.com/index.htm
http://www.greenleafaquariums.com/
http://sumoregulator.com/

Another way to obtain a pressurized CO2 setup is to build your own setup from parts that you buy separately and piece together yourself. While this method may seem more laborious, requiring you to buy the parts individually, do research, etc., it may save you money in the long run. This is especially true if you wait for the best deals that pop up on eBay and/or Swap and Shop forums. At the very least, you may be able to get "better" parts for the same price as one of the pre-built pressurized CO2 systems.


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## Darkblade48

*Putting it all together*

Here, I will discuss how to put everything together. Hopefully, I will have some instructive images as well.

The setup I will be describing is as below:










The general design is as follows:
CO2 tank -> CO2 Regulator -> Solenoid -> Needle valve -> Bubble Counter -> Diffuser

Some points to watch out for:

Between the CO2 tank and the CO2 regulator, you will require a washer to prevent leaks. This can be a disposable (one time use) nylon washer, or a perma-seal. Sometimes, you can get a nylon washer for free when you get your CO2 tank refilled (just ask!)

Between the regulator and the solenoid: Ensure that the fittings match (i.e. 1/8" to 1/8", or get the necessary adapters. Adapters can be bought for a few dollars at Home Depot and/or Rona.

Between the solenoid and the needle valve: Again, ensure that the fitting sizes match. If they don't, you can buy the necessary adapters at the hardware store.

Between the needle valve and the bubble counter: Again, the same rule as above applies.

Finally, for all connections: You will require either teflon tape or pipe compound (sometimes called pipe dope) to ensure that all the connections are well sealed. I do not recommend teflon tape before the solenoid as there have been reports of people getting small bits of teflon tape lodged within their solenoid, preventing it from closing all the way (this means CO2 will still flow!). As such, I recommend pipe compound instead (this can be bought from the hardware store for a few dollars as well). Use it sparingly, and don't use it excessively.

After putting the entire setup together, be sure to check all the connections for leaks using soapy water. By brushing/spraying the soapy water onto the connections, you will be able to detect any leaks due to the formation of tiny bubbles.


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## Darkblade48

*Some Final Basics Instructions*

Finally, some basic instructions on how to use your pressurized CO2 system now that you have everything hooked up.










1) Ensure that a nylon washer is between the CGA320 nipple and nut (A).

2) Screw the nut (A) onto the CO2 cylinder. Tighten with an appropriate sized wrench.

3) Unscrewing the bubble counter nut (I), thread the rubber O-ring through airline tubing, and then attach the tubing to the barb. Take this opportunity to fill the bubble counter with water (other options include mineral oil or glycerin; the choice is yours). Screw the bubble counter nut back into place.

4) Ensure that the regulator pressure adjustment knob (B) is turned *counter clockwise* until there is no resistance. This ensures that the low pressure gauge (E) is not destroyed when the CO2 cylinder is first opened.

5) Open the CO2 cylinder valve (C).

6) The high pressure gauge (D) should read ~800 - 1000 PSI, depending on the level the CO2 cylinder is filled, ambient temperature, etc.

7) Turn the metering valve adjustment knob (G) *clockwise *until you feel resistance (this will close the metering valve to restrict gas flow). Do not overturn, as we will now reopen the valve (*counter clockwise*) to allow gas to flow.

8) Plug in your solenoid (F).

9) *Slowly *turn the pressure adjustment knob (B) *clockwise*, until the desired working pressure is reached. In this image, the working pressure is set to ~5 PSI. Gas should begin to flow and you should see bubbles in the bubble counter (H).

10) Adjust your needle valve (G) so that the desired flow rate is achieved in your bubble counter.


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## Darkblade48

*Useful Glossary of Terms*

If you can think of any more, let me know!
*
Bubble Counter:* A piece of equipment that allows you to determine the flow rate of your CO2 in "bubbles per second". Optional. Can be made DIY or bought commercially.

*CO2:* Carbon dioxide. Plants require carbon in order to grow, and carbon dioxide is provided as a carbon source.
*
Delivery Pressure:* Also known as the *working pressure*. This is the pressure that is indicated by the low pressure gauge. Standard delivery pressures vary from 5 - 20 PSI.

*Drop checker: *A piece of equipment that will help determine whether optimal levels of CO2 are being reached. Optional. Can be made DIY or bought commercially.

*Dual gauge:* A regulator that has two pressure gauges (two manometers). One pressure gauge will indicate the pressure in the CO2 tank, while the other gauge will indicate the *delivery pressure.*

*Dual stage:* A regulator that has two stages of pressure regulation. c.f. *single gauge* and *single stage.*

*End of tank dump:* A phenomenon whereby the remainder of a nearly empty CO2 tank will empty its contents into the aquarium.

*Metering valve:* See *needle valve.*

*Needle valve:* A piece of equipment that further drops the *delivery pressure* so that even finer control of CO2 flow can be achieved.

*pH controller:* A piece of equipment that will measure your aquarium water pH and inject/stop injecting CO2 as the pH rises above a set point/drops below a set point, respectively. Optional. Requires a solenoid.

*Regulator:* A piece of equipment that drops the CO2 tank pressure to a much lower *delivery pressure.*

*Single gauge:* Refers to a regulator with only one pressure gauge (manometer). Will indicate the *delivery pressure*.

*Single stage:* A regulator that only contains one stage of pressure control. c.f. *single gauge* and *dual stage*.

*Solenoid:* An electronic switch that will open/close depending on whether electricity is flowing or not. Will allow you to put your CO2 onto a timer, so that you can turn it on/off automatically. Is required when using a *pH controller.*

*Working Pressure:* See *Delivery Pressure*


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## noved

I have to say thanks for this. I just recently set up a pressurized setup and this guide would have been a huge help and time saver as well. However I am still in the learning stages and still increasing my bubbles per second in my attempt to achieve perfection so I did find some useful information.

One question though. The tighter I connect my regulator to the cylinder, the harder it is to turn the cylinder valve. So much so that I need to use a monkey wrench and I am scared that I am going to break the dam thing. I haven't been able to find an explanation for this as of yet.

Finally, in my mind, this guide is a must sticky.


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## Darkblade48

noved said:


> One question though. The tighter I connect my regulator to the cylinder, the harder it is to turn the cylinder valve. So much so that I need to use a monkey wrench and I am scared that I am going to break the dam thing. I haven't been able to find an explanation for this as of yet.


Are you saying that the main cylinder valve (i.e. the valve on top of the CO2 tank) becomes so hard to turn that you need a wrench to turn it? This definitely is not right.

Tightening a regulator to the CO2 tank should not make the tank valve itself any harder to open...


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## gucci17

excellent write up.

Can I recommend to mods to perhaps sticky all the relevant posts? Perhaps if Anth can repost when complete on another thread?


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## Rmwbrown

After looking at Rex Griggs' page and given the detail Anthony has put into this write-up i'm starting to think the most cost efficient means of getting a high quality Co2 system together is to put it together yourself. I was wondering, however, where one might source the hardware. Princess Auto or something similar or perhaps a u-brew?
.


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## Darkblade48

gucci17 said:


> excellent write up.
> 
> Can I recommend to mods to perhaps sticky all the relevant posts? Perhaps if Anth can repost when complete on another thread?


I am pretty much complete; unless anyone has any extra stuff they want to see in particular?



Rmwbrown said:


> After looking at Rex Griggs' page and given the detail Anthony has put into this write-up i'm starting to think the most cost efficient means of getting a high quality Co2 system together is to put it together yourself. I was wondering, however, where one might source the hardware. Princess Auto or something similar or perhaps a u-brew?
> .


Indeed, while buying a pre-built pressurized CO2 setup may be easy, it usually is quite expensive. There are cheap pre-builds out there, but as I mentioned, they are usually hit or miss. For some people they work, but for others, things go terribly wrong, etc.

I'd rather not hedge my bets when dealing with CO2. I don't want to come home to find a tank of dead fish/shrimp.

As for the hardware, what are you looking for in particular? I have listed the best places locally to get CO2 tanks. For solenoids, there is a particular eBay store that I like, and the user sells excellent Parker solenoids for a good price (less than 20 CAD shipped).

The longest time you will spend will be looking for a regulator and a needle valve. There are often good deals on eBay, but you have to have a general feel for what you are looking for. I have seen Parker metering valves with nice vernier caliper handles go for 9.99 USD. There were also some nice Swagelok metering valves awhile back for 8 USD. In terms of regulators, I have seen a few dual stage Victors go for ~30-40 USD.

I don't think Princess Auto has the parts required, and a home brewing store may only have (expensive) regulators.

I know there is a Clippard wholesaler in Mississauga, but their prices were quite high (I have price quotes from them for various parts). The same goes for the Fabco parts, unfortunately.


----------



## noved

Darkblade48 said:


> Are you saying that the main cylinder valve (i.e. the valve on top of the CO2 tank) becomes so hard to turn that you need a wrench to turn it? This definitely is not right.
> 
> Tightening a regulator to the CO2 tank should not make the tank valve itself any harder to open...


I kinda knew that something was wrong, but I wasn't positive since it is my first setup. Fortunately I was able to exchange the tank for a new one free of charge. The new one works fine now. On the bright side I got one free months worth of CO2.


----------



## Darkblade48

Great that you got it fixed


----------



## Darkblade48

Added some new information regarding a Clippard and a Fabco retailer that are located in Mississauga. Thanks Mr. Fishies!


----------



## shrtmann

So just curious DB48, what happens when u blow your regulator upon first setup...i was following the instructions sent with my regulator i bought and it didnt mention anything about turning the low pressure knob before opening the tank valve...and when i did i heard a quick pop...everyhing is workinmhg fine but i cant seem to really change my low presure flow valve to 5-20 psi. I basically stays at around 30 and can get it up to around 40 but cant get it down...
Is it possible that i blew it? 
Other than that i got it hooked up and working, i think..Need to get a bubble counter and a drop checker still to actually moniter it but....


----------



## Darkblade48

A lot of regulators don't mention that handy piece of advice, as if you blow up the low pressure gauge, you might need to replace it, i.e. more money for the manufacturer.

If you forget to turn the regulator knob CCW until it is very loose (i.e. the regulator is backed off all the way), when you open the CO2 tank, the gas will cause the low pressure needle to go all the way around, possibly bending the needle, etc.

In this case, the regulator itself is still usable, but the low pressure gauge is not. This means you will not be able to know what your actual delivery pressure is, and you will have to rely on a drop checker/bubble counter/your fish/plants instead. 

From what you described, it sounds like you blew your low pressure gauge. It is probably now stuck permanently at 30 PSI (when it is 0, in fact), and when the needle indicates 40 or 50 PSI, it is the equivalent of 10 or 20 PSI. Check to see if this is true; turn off your CO2 gas tank, and let all the CO2 escape (i.e. plug in your solenoid, open your needle valve all the way; all the remaining CO2 should quickly escape. Obviously, don't do this with the diffuser in the aquarium).

If the needle on the delivery pressure gauge remains at 30 PSI, it means it is likely broken.

Hope this helps,


----------



## Mr Fishies

Darkblade48 said:


> A lot of regulators don't mention that handy piece of advice, as if you blow up the low pressure gauge, you might need to replace it, i.e. more money for the manufacturer.


Is it only the LP gauge that takes a beating when you pressurize an open reg? I was under the impression (not sure from reading what where) that it could damage the diaphragm/valve seat as well.


----------



## Darkblade48

Mr Fishies said:


> Is it only the LP gauge that takes a beating when you pressurize an open reg? I was under the impression (not sure from reading what where) that it could damage the diaphragm/valve seat as well.


I am unaware if there is any damage to the regulator diaphragm or the valve seat. If there is any, it would likely be minimal compared to the possible other damage that could occur.


----------



## zgall1

This is a fantastic post. Thanks for this.


----------



## Chris S

Can we sticky this pweeze?


----------



## Darkblade48

Thanks for digging this back up, I almost forgot about it 

I don't mind if it's stickied moderators


----------



## Russgro

just put my system together, this article was a very good tool.


----------



## Darkblade48

Looks great! Is that a Parker metering valve I see?


----------



## Russgro

I'm not sure, I have a Parker solenoid, I got the needle valve from JL aquatics. I think I'm gonna remove the solenoid and just run constant 20PPM.


----------



## Darkblade48

I am not familiar with that type of needle valve, so I cannot comment on it.

However, I would just leave the Parker solenoid in place, as it is already there. In addition, it will help save (a little) CO2. There really is no need to inject CO2 at night.


----------



## Russgro

Darkblade48 said:


> However, I would just leave the Parker solenoid in place, as it is already there. In addition, it will help save (a little) CO2. There really is no need to inject CO2 at night.


"Do I need to shut off my CO2 at night?
No. CO2 is available in the water full-time in nature, no reason to change that here. Since we are dosing at a lower level (20 ppm) we have plenty of safety margin. And stable pH and CO2 levels help plants and fish, making it harder on algae." 
http://sites.google.com/site/aquaticplantfertilizer/home/co2-injection

I have been using PPS-Pro in my 10G, and would like to continue. I would just leave the solenoid there but since it is "NC" it would not be ideal for it to be on all the time.


----------



## Darkblade48

Many people have had successful tanks even with CO2 shutting off at night, and the subsequent CO2 and pH fluctuations that are associated with shutting CO2 off at night. Many people (including myself) keep tanks algae free, even without the injection of CO2 at night.

Tom Barr often advocates the use of a solenoid, but if you choose not to use one, then it is fine too. 

As I mention in my article, a solenoid is optional, as there really is no need for CO2 at night (the plants will not use it anyway).


----------



## Russgro

I understand it is optional, I respect what Tom Barr says too, his EI system is a variation of PPS, you can never learn enough about what other people do. What range do you keep your co2 at? Does you Co2 shut off with your lights? 
Thanks


----------



## Darkblade48

Both PPS-Pro and EI are probably based off on the older PMDD note that Sears and Collins published many years ago. Though they had some basic, fundamental mistakes, it has become the basis for the dosing regimens we have today.

I keep my CO2 at ~30 ppm (probably a bit more), as my drop checker with a 4 dkH reference solution is yellow a few hours before my lights turn off.

I stagger the on/off cycle of my CO2, such that it comes on an hour before the lights do, and turn off one hour before the lights turn off.


----------



## Russgro

Yeh, Sorry I guess I didn't write that out clearly. They both come from PMDD. Thanks again,.


----------



## Dis

Dark, Im about to set up my pressurized system and I was wondering where is the best place to put my spiral diffuser? Is it best to put at the front/back or near an input or output from my xp3? I've got a 75 g tank

Thanks for the help


----------



## Darkblade48

It is best to put the diffuser as low as possible in the tank. It is even better if you have a powerhead or filter to blow around/suck up the bubbles so that even more CO2 dissolution is achieved.

However, with a 75g tank, I would be worried about even spread of the CO2 throughout the tank. You may find that you have areas within the tank that have higher CO2 concentrations than other parts of the tank. As such, it would be best to place a drop checker as far away as possible from the CO2 source to see whether you are achieving optimal CO2 levels throughout the tank.


----------



## Dis

ok perfect. I'll find a good spot for it. Maybe I'll place it underneath the filter output so the bubbles can be dispersed throughout the aquarium.

Thanks for the help!


----------



## Acrylic

Excellent article. For the life of me, I couldn't remember where Norwood was.


----------



## planter

Hey DB thanks for the posting this.

I've been using co2 for about 2 years now but I'm scared to death of removing the regulator from the tank. I always have the guys where I fill the tanks do it for me. I have about 1/2 a tank of co2 right now and I want to remove the regulator from the tank. Could you please explain the best way to remove the regulator from a tank that still has Co2 in it ? 

Is there any chance that the dam thing will fly off?


----------



## Darkblade48

planter said:


> Hey DB thanks for the posting this.
> 
> I've been using co2 for about 2 years now but I'm scared to death of removing the regulator from the tank. I always have the guys where I fill the tanks do it for me. I have about 1/2 a tank of co2 right now and I want to remove the regulator from the tank. Could you please explain the best way to remove the regulator from a tank that still has Co2 in it ?
> 
> Is there any chance that the dam thing will fly off?


Following the proper procedures will ensure that you will be able to remove the regulator safely.

First, unplug the solenoid if you have one.

Next, close the main CO2 cylinder valve. Ensure that it is closed.

Third, take your regulator, and turn the delivery pressure adjustment knob (on the front) counter clockwise, until it is loose. This ensures that any gas that remains in the regulator is also let out.

You can then take off the regulator safely with the appropriately sized crescent wrench.


----------



## planter

Thank you Darkblade


----------



## coldmantis

would this and a co2 tank all I need to get it started. is there anything else I need to buy not including the air tubing, timer and diffuser.
co2 regulator


----------



## Darkblade48

That is an expensive price for the MA957.

In addition, there are various opinions regarding that particular brand of regulators; more often than not, however, it causes more trouble than it is worth...


----------



## Dis

I got mine from jl aquatics in vancouver. Seemed to be the best price that I could find from a reliable dealer. It was delivered promptly and they sent me a tracking number.

http://www.jlaquatics.com/product/c...2+Regulator+with+Needle+Valve+&+Solenoid.html


----------



## Darkblade48

For that price, you can easily get a better regulator setup for a little more.


----------



## coldmantis

can you? because I want something in a package, regulator, solenoid , needle valve, guages, bubble counter. I was just at bigal's scarb they said they will price match jbl they also sell the tanks omg it was 189 for 5lb crazy...


----------



## Darkblade48

If you want a package deal, and do not want to assemble it from parts yourself, then you are severely limiting your choices.

However, if you insist on a package deal, I would go with a more solidly built system, and not one that may cause problems for you in the future. You do not want to find out that your pressurized CO2 system does not perform up to your expectations, and then find out that you need to spend an addition $100 afterwards to upgrade parts, etc.

Also, a 5 pound CO2 cylinder is $75 at Norwood, while a 10 lb cylinder is $85.


----------



## Dis

hey DB,

Im having some problems finding a leak in my system, I have a pre assembled milwaukee regulator, solenoid, and bubble counter. I've used pipe compound to try and seal all the connections but still seem to have some loss of gas. Ive found it very hard to see any bubbles in a soap/water mixture.

Too add to the problem I have over used the compound and clogged my air tubing. Does your air tubing ever become hard or stiff?

Now Im planning on re connecting the airtubing from my bubble counter to my check valve then to my glass diffuser. Where should I place the check valve closer to the bubble counter or closer to the diffuser?

Your help is much appreciated!


----------



## Darkblade48

Dis said:


> Too add to the problem I have over used the compound and clogged my air tubing. Does your air tubing ever become hard or stiff?


If you are using enough pipe dope that your air tubing is clogged, then you are using too much. A little bit goes a long way.

Airline tubing tends to get stiff with time. This is especially true of the PVC ones that are normally sold. Silicone resists this, but will still get stiff with time.



Dis said:


> Now Im planning on re connecting the airtubing from my bubble counter to my check valve then to my glass diffuser. Where should I place the check valve closer to the bubble counter or closer to the diffuser?


Closer to the diffuser.

Finally, for checking leaks, there are products out there that are similar to soapy water, but will cost you a pretty penny


----------



## Dis

Ill try and clear out the system and use less compound. Thanks for the help, much appreciated!


----------



## spicspan

thats great .. thanks for the info guys


----------



## stim

*regulators*

Any thoughts on the regulators offered at Aqua Inspiration: http://www.aquainspiration.com/productlist.asp?PNAME=CO

I don't recognize the names.


----------



## Darkblade48

The Up regulator looks very similar to the MA957; I would personally not recommend it, but if you decide to purchase it, I would strongly advise that you replace the needle valve, at the very least.


----------



## manmadecorals

Has this been stickied yet? I'm currently in the process of setting up my own C02 Setup and this thread has been tremendously helpful


----------



## FlyingHellFish

Darkblade48 said:


> The Up regulator looks very similar to the MA957; I would personally not recommend it, but if you decide to purchase it, I would strongly advise that you replace the needle valve, at the very least.


I agreed.

Hey DarkBlade, what is your opinion on expensive needle valve compare to common ones?

Even with a needle valve rated for a high PSI, it does not prevent End of Tank dump. There is also the fact that once the settings are made, even common inexpensive needle valves will hold true.

I also think this is already a stickie, but if not, it should be.


----------



## Darkblade48

manhtu said:


> Has this been stickied yet? I'm currently in the process of setting up my own C02 Setup and this thread has been tremendously helpful


As far as I know, it has not been stickied. Feel free to contact a moderator on my behalf 



FlyingHellFish said:


> I agreed.
> 
> Hey DarkBlade, what is your opinion on expensive needle valve compare to common ones?
> 
> Even with a needle valve rated for a high PSI, it does not prevent End of Tank dump. There is also the fact that once the settings are made, even common inexpensive needle valves will hold true.
> 
> I also think this is already a stickie, but if not, it should be.


I don't buy expensive metering valves when they are normally priced, I only buy them when they are on sale 

When you are looking at a needle/metering valve, the PSI does not matter so much so as the Cv. As long as the valve can operate within the normal range of delivery pressures that we use (20-30 PSI), then the valve will be fine.

The Cv value of the valve will determine how fine your adjustments can be. More expensive metering valves will have finer control. Finer control means that you can get much lower bubble rates, which may be desirable for small aquariums.

So, it depends on your use. For most people, the Fabco NV55 that I recommend will work fine, even with small aquariums. More expensive metering valves can allow very low rates (i.e. 1 bubble every 10 seconds, etc).


----------



## manmadecorals

*Help with my setup please!*

Hey Guys,

I got this from a good friend of mine where he custom built his regulator. He has never finished setting it up and gave it to me, i'm wondering if it's missing anything. He told me there is already a needle valve but i can't seem to figure out where i would connect the airline. I also want to attach a bubble counter but i wouldn't know where to attach it. Can anyone help?

Here is a picture of what he made. Any help would be appreciated and a big thank to Le for giving this to me.


----------



## Darkblade48

Looks like a decent regulator to me.

You will need to attach a power cord to the solenoid. If you not know what you are doing, I suggest getting someone that does (or to get an electrician). 

From your pictures, I believe the valve with the blue part is the needle valve (the blue part appears to be the output). The black knob is likely the adjustment knob.

I am not sure of the make of the needle valve (if it is even one); however, you can easily unscrew it from the solenoid and replace with another one.

For this particular needle valve (?), you will only be able to use an inline bubble counter.


----------



## FlyingHellFish

manhtu said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> I got this from a good friend of mine where he custom built his regulator. He has never finished setting it up and gave it to me, i'm wondering if it's missing anything. He told me there is already a needle valve but i can't seem to figure out where i would connect the airline. I also want to attach a bubble counter but i wouldn't know where to attach it. Can anyone help?
> 
> Here is a picture of what he made. Any help would be appreciated and a big thank to Le for giving this to me.


Hey, can you ask Le what connection nipple that is? Is it a CGA320? Does it have a rubber o-ring (gasket)? the black part kind of looks like it.


----------



## FlyingHellFish

manhtu said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> I got this from a good friend of mine where he custom built his regulator. He has never finished setting it up and gave it to me, i'm wondering if it's missing anything. He told me there is already a needle valve but i can't seem to figure out where i would connect the airline. I also want to attach a bubble counter but i wouldn't know where to attach it. Can anyone help?
> 
> Here is a picture of what he made. Any help would be appreciated and a big thank to Le for giving this to me.


I think that might be the British standard Male Nipple, it will fit into a NPT female but it will likely leak.

Here is a chart.

Pipe Size Pipe OD	Threads Per Inch (Pitch) Some BSPP Male thread into Female NPT ;
However, they Leak and are Not Recommended
NPT BSPP/BSPT
1/8"

0.405"	27	28	Male BSPP "G" screws into Female NPT but leaks
1/4"

0.540"	18	19 Does not screw in at all
3/8"

0.675"	18	19 Does not screw in at all
1/2"

0.840"	14	14	Male BSPP "G" screws into Female NPT but leaks
3/4"

1.050"	14	14	Male BSPP "G" screws into Female NPT but leaks
1 "

1.315"	11 1/2	11 Does not screw in at all

I had the same problem with the DICI regulator, you can always remove the B threaded one and add a CGA320.


----------



## manmadecorals

Thanks guys for the help!

Flyinghellfish- Sorry i'm not quite sure what you are referring to... Can you just circle the part you wish for me to ask Le on one of my pictures?


----------



## FlyingHellFish

Picture 3 of 4, the black rubber O-ring or gasket. Usually this is found in the British European style. Just ask him what kind of connection it is. 

My point is about the connection to a Co2 tank. It will screw in nice and tight but don't let that fool you in thinking it's secure. 

Some people risk it, other don't but if you ask around it's not 100% secured. That is, if you have the B style of connection. It might just be a CGA-320 (what we use) and you will be fine.

The different in the connection is in mm so it does somewhat fit. You can always buy a CGA 320 nut and nipple and replace the British connection. I think it's like 10 bucks.

The list I copy and paste states the size and if the connection will fit into our standard NPT. I know it a bit confusing as I couldn't copy the table correctly.


----------



## manmadecorals

does it matter which way i screw on my solenoid valve to the regulator? one side has an "A" engraved on it and the other has a"P"...


----------



## Darkblade48

manhtu said:


> does it matter which way i screw on my solenoid valve to the regulator? one side has an "A" engraved on it and the other has a"P"...


Yes, the direction that a solenoid is mounted is important, as it is directional.

I am not sure what particular brand/model solenoid you have, so you will want to check with the appropriate source (i.e. a manual) for confirmation.

However, if it is anything like the Burkert 6011 solenoids, the side with P is the inlet and the side with A is the outlet.


----------



## manmadecorals

Here is a close up picture of the label on the solenoid valve. Le told me he had purchased a solenoid valve originally manufactured for cars.


----------



## Darkblade48

manhtu said:


> Here is a close up picture of the label on the solenoid valve. Le told me he had purchased a solenoid valve originally manufactured for cars.


As I said, you are best looking up the solenoid manufacturer's specification sheet for certain confirmation.


----------



## manmadecorals

Thanks Darkblade! I did some research and found what out what i needed. 

Another thing, i noticed a lot of regulators with a knob of some sort in front of the gauges, i don't have one on mine...is that something i should be concerned about?


----------



## Darkblade48

manhtu said:


> Thanks Darkblade! I did some research and found what out what i needed.
> 
> Another thing, i noticed a lot of regulators with a knob of some sort in front of the gauges, i don't have one on mine...is that something i should be concerned about?


Most regulators will have an adjustment knob for the delivery pressure. Some regulators will have an easy adjustment knob that you can see on the front of the regulator (for example, my Victor HPT272 has such a knob; you can find pictures of my setup in my pressurized CO2 guide).

Regulators with adjustable delivery pressures will either have a knob, or perhaps a hex nut that can be adjusted with an appropriate sized wrench.

As always, try to set your delivery pressure to 30 PSI.


----------



## manmadecorals

Just wanted to send you guys an update. I was able to find all the adapter and fittings here locally in mississauga for the regulator to the fabco needle valve to the bubble counter. Here is the info on where i got it

Rubberline - 905-812-8400


----------



## manmadecorals

Holy Crap...i didn't realize how difficult it would be for me to find a fitting from my solenoid valve to my needle valve...So far i've been to Sempress, Humphrey, Rubberline, and my next stop is Adaptall. Hopefully they will be able to help me out.


----------



## Darkblade48

manhtu said:


> Holy Crap...i didn't realize how difficult it would be for me to find a fitting from my solenoid valve to my needle valve...So far i've been to Sempress, Humphrey, Rubberline, and my next stop is Adaptall. Hopefully they will be able to help me out.


I am not sure what kind of solenoid you have, but if you found the fitting for the needle valve (Fabco NV55) to the bubble counter (which I assume to be 1/8" FNPT), then you should have no problem with the solenoid (as most have standard NPT fittings as well).


----------



## manmadecorals

I might be mistaken but i heard Jaime from Rubberline speaking with Chris from Adaptall saying that it's the threading that is difficult to match because my Solenoid valve is Japanese and uses metric threading to my needle valve which is NPT. I also believe that the problem is finding an adapter from 1/4" male to a 10/32 male.


----------



## manmadecorals

i was told it would require several pieces to make it fit...but even still it wouldn't be purchased from 1 location


----------



## manmadecorals

although i did find this adapter online

http://www.bimba.com/en/Products-and-Cad/Hydraulic-Actuators/Inch/Accessories/FittingsPort-AdaptorsPins/Adaptors/Adaptor/


----------



## Darkblade48

manhtu said:


> I might be mistaken but i heard Jaime from Rubberline speaking with Chris from Adaptall saying that it's the threading that is difficult to match because my Solenoid valve is Japanese and uses metric threading to my needle valve which is NPT. I also believe that the problem is finding an adapter from 1/4" male to a 10/32 male.


If your solenoid is metric, then it may be easier to just buy a new solenoid (that has the North American "standard"; i.e. Imperial). It would likely be less hassle.



manhtu said:


> i was told it would require several pieces to make it fit...but even still it wouldn't be purchased from 1 location


That is correct; you would need a Metric to Imperial converter, then the 1/8" to #10/32 converter. Most likely, you would need two separate sources.

Keep in mind that the more pieces that you have in your pressurized setup, the more chances for a leak, since there are more junctions. Try to minimize the number of pieces/connections you need to make.



manhtu said:


> although i did find this adapter online
> 
> http://www.bimba.com/en/Products-and-Cad/Hydraulic-Actuators/Inch/Accessories/FittingsPort-AdaptorsPins/Adaptors/Adaptor/


I only took a cursory look at the piece, but it appears to work.


----------



## manmadecorals

Thank you for all of your help throughout this ordeal Darkblade. You've helped me tremendously.

Here is a picture of my finished project...all that is left to do is plug and play.


----------



## manmadecorals

I forgot to add that I still need to add sealant or Teflon tape and tighten everything up.


----------



## Darkblade48

manhtu said:


> I forgot to add that I still need to add sealant or Teflon tape and tighten everything up.


A nice setup. Check everything for leaks with soapy water.

Finally, I would recommend the use of sealant rather than teflon tape. If a little piece of tape gets loose and gets stuck within the solenoid, it could prevent the plunger from closing completely, allowing the flow of CO2 to continue.


----------



## FlyingHellFish

Nice looking set up, did you happen to find the 10-32 to 1/8 locally?


----------



## manmadecorals

i did although it was two pieces not like the one from the website. I tested everything yesterday and it works perfectly...Although the solenoid valve due to being a car part, it gets extremely hot and noisy. So i'll have to find another solenoid to replace this one...any recommendations?


----------



## Darkblade48

There are many available solenoids that may work.

I personally like the Burkert 6011 because it stays cool. It is a bit expensive though.


----------



## manmadecorals

Darkblade48 said:


> A nice setup. Check everything for leaks with soapy water.
> 
> Finally, I would recommend the use of sealant rather than teflon tape. If a little piece of tape gets loose and gets stuck within the solenoid, it could prevent the plunger from closing completely, allowing the flow of CO2 to continue.


I did end up going with the sealant as it said on the tube "Seals and lubricate" and the teflon tape wouldn't lubricate. It's a better deal to go with the sealant and i'm a sucker for good deals


----------



## manmadecorals

Darkblade48 said:


> There are many available solenoids that may work.
> 
> I personally like the Burkert 6011 because it stays cool. It is a bit expensive though.


can this be purchased locally or online only?


----------



## Darkblade48

manhtu said:


> can this be purchased locally or online only?


There may be local sources, but you may have more luck online.

For local sources, you may want to consider Clippard. Fabco may also sell solenoids (but I have not used them before).


----------



## manmadecorals

ouch...i just went to look it up and it's almost $100 assembled... :S


----------



## manmadecorals

Here is a price update for anyone interested

Wainbee Ltd.
Clippard (Model #: MME-2PDS-D110) - $34.51

Sempress Pneumatic:
Fabco (Model #: 3853-04-A287) - $36.85

Freshwater.com
Burke (Model#: 6011 Brass) - $45.40 USD 
Burke (Model#: 6011 Steel) - $81.50 USD 
Burkert 008409 Plug Connection With LED NO Varistor - $9.99 USD
Burkert 008409 Plug Connection With LED and Varistor - $11.99 USD

...ouch


----------



## Darkblade48

manhtu said:


> ouch...i just went to look it up and it's almost $100 assembled... :S


What costs $100 to assemble?



manhtu said:


> Here is a price update for anyone interested
> 
> Wainbee Ltd.
> Clippard (Model #: MME-2PDS-D110) - $34.51
> 
> Sempress Pneumatic:
> Fabco (Model #: 3853-04-A287) - $36.85
> 
> Freshwater.com
> Burke (Model#: 6011 Brass) - $45.40 USD
> Burke (Model#: 6011 Steel) - $81.50 USD
> Burkert 008409 Plug Connection With LED NO Varistor - $9.99 USD
> Burkert 008409 Plug Connection With LED and Varistor - $11.99 USD
> 
> ...ouch


You can easily use the brass Burkert to save on costs.

As for the plug connection, you can save money by doing it yourself.

The Clippard runs quite warm, but come with an LED (if it is the same model that I am thinking of). The Burkert does not come with an LED but runs cooler.


----------



## vraev

A question regarding setup of the C02 system.

Unfortunately I guess I saw that the DICI AI CO2 systems aren't that great. Freeman at AI insists that they should be fine. So I am thinking its only fair to first give it a shot.

So the DICI is a single stage regulator...so I guess I am first opening the needle valve till its loose and no resistance. Then, I am screwing the regulator and its white nylon washer on the inside onto the C02 cylinder.

this is the regulator I got... http://www.cndcgs.net/en/chanpin2.asp?f_id=848

Kinda stupid...but where is the regulator's opening valve so that I can prevent damaging the low pressure gauge?

This is where I am unsure..... the instructions are kinda unclear. open the main tank valve? Then close the needle valve and fill the drop checker with backflow valve with water and then attach that to the regulator and then the tubing...tubing into tank and diffuser and then finally open the needle valve slowly as necessary.

Does that sound about right?

thnx

V


----------



## FlyingHellFish

Not sure if you read my thread about them, I had nothing but problems. The main problem was the working pressure never was stable. Went from 40 to 60 ish and kept climbing, obviously when when the solenoid turned on it would go back down.

I never wanted to find out what would happen if I had it on for more than a few days. Another person on a different forum had the same issue, he had the smaller one and it jump from 30 to 100 psi. 

CGA-320 connection use a washer , it came with UK style O-rings. The instructions are a bit unclear, it's basically the same as any regulator, read the first few pages on this thread. 

Another fix would be adding a CGA-320 nipple and nut but I rather not fiddy around with the system, lesson learned. 

Hope you get a refund, I never did.


----------



## vraev

Yup! I did read your thread.... I was hoping I would give this a shot first. But maybe as u said..perhaps I should try returning it, getting a store credit and maybe getting a safer regulator kit. What did u end up getting?

I tried calling AI. They seem to be closed. So basically the filter I got is noisy, the regulator may not be the best. lol...looks like Coldmantis was right....their equipment isn't the greatest. I hope I can get atleast the credit for the regulator and I guess I should start looking for a good one.


----------



## smithron

VRAEV

I bought the same DICI regulator from AI this week despite the bad press. In the short run it was just simpler than trying to find the right new or used high end unit - I'm starting a new planted tank and wanted to get started. 

The only initial question I have is the number of bubbles in the attached counter are many times more than those in a separate unit I have attached to the side of my tank - probably 5 or more to one. Makes me wonder about the accuracy of counting bubbles.

So far the unit seems just fine but I will keep looking for that perfect used Victor 500.


----------



## FlyingHellFish

Maybe I was the first to ask for a refund, they were pretty against a cash refund or a store credit. Such is life in Russia...ahem...Toronto. 

I'll save you time googling, just go with a Aquatek (From California) ask them nicely to ship USPS to avoid customs. 

I got the Aquatic Life compact regulator, sexiest regulator retail regulator I ever seen. It's 149.99 online, again ask for USPS shipping as you might avoid customs and duty. UPS tends to lay more charges, I think BIG AL might have them if you want it locally. 

But, ask for a credit first because you never know. They might give it to you, talk to Alex as he was the most reasonable.

Good luck!


----------



## FlyingHellFish

smithron said:


> VRAEV
> 
> I bought the same DICI regulator from AI this week despite the bad press. In the short run it was just simpler than trying to find the right new or used high end unit - I'm starting a new planted tank and wanted to get started.
> 
> The only initial question I have is the number of bubbles in the attached counter are many times more than those in a separate unit I have attached to the side of my tank - probably 5 or more to one. Makes me wonder about the accuracy of counting bubbles.
> 
> So far the unit seems just fine but I will keep looking for that perfect used Victor 500.


Hey, now that you mention it, that happen to me too. Check your working pressure, does it raises when the unit is off?


----------



## vraev

But someone else here: http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/equipment/154171-co2-regulator-opinions-dici-machinery.html

exv152 is using the AI regulators safely. I guess there aren't much details, but FHF did u follow up with him regarding the regulator?

Its truly a pain going down to AI for me..its nearly a 2h drive and 20$ of gas to and fro. A total waste of money. Thats why I am trying to see if I can make this work. I mean I don't mind if I have to manually turn off the regulator/cylinder at night.


----------



## FlyingHellFish

Uhm, that the same guy that had the same problem as me. His working pressure went from 30 to 100. 

Keep googling, you will find that thread. Hint: Same forum 
Read his thread and read mine. Same forum. 

Basically, I asked a Q about working pressure, he looks at his working pressure, same problem as me. 

Annnnd..... here we are. 

I just brought a new rig and am sourcing parts for a DIY 212 Series, never looked back. 

I'm sure one day someone will find a fix, but I really don't want to risk it.


----------



## vraev

Hmm.... yes! I found his thread. I really don't want to risk it. An apartment.... I am not at all concerned about fish.. I guess a little...but my main concern is safety that the cylinder shouldn't blow i.e., failure of regulator. The pressure inside a 10lb cylinder would be massive enough to propel it through the walls. Don't even want to risk it. I would rather write off the 100$ inspite of being a poor university student. lol!

What did they say when u tried to return it? Did they give u a credit? I didn't even hook up the regulator. I just have it in the box as is. Wil they accept it if I say I got a better regulator and just want a store credit to buy other things? I know they don't do refunds.


----------



## FlyingHellFish

Only 1 way to find out, ask them.

They told me it was fine, I told them working pressure is not suppose to do that. Again, don't worry, it's fine. I ask them about the rubber O-ring, naw don't worry about that, it's fine.

They said they were going to call me back to let me know, never got a call. Anyways, I went back to grab a drop checker and see what up, long story short....

Basically, since it working and it hasn't exploded in my face, they can't give me a refund or a store credit. 

One of the reasons I brought the regulator was because I got out of a traffic ticket that day, figure I was might as well go buy something for 100.

Funny how the Universe balances itself out.


----------



## vraev

Yup! Will go tomorrow and hoefully it should go all smooth. *Sigh*...now the process begins to get a new regulator. More extra money from the wallet. but well...maybe I can use the credit to get my livestock, food and nets once the tank is ready.


----------



## Darkblade48

smithron said:


> The only initial question I have is the number of bubbles in the attached counter are many times more than those in a separate unit I have attached to the side of my tank - probably 5 or more to one. Makes me wonder about the accuracy of counting bubbles.


Counting bubbles is never accurate; it just provides an easy to observe phenomenon to determine the approximate amount of CO2 flowing into your aquarium.



vraev said:


> Hmm.... yes! I found his thread. I really don't want to risk it. An apartment.... I am not at all concerned about fish.. I guess a little...but my main concern is safety that the cylinder shouldn't blow i.e., failure of regulator. The pressure inside a 10lb cylinder would be massive enough to propel it through the walls. Don't even want to risk it.


Even if the regulator fails, the CO2 cylinder will not rocket off. You will hear a loud hissing noise as the CO2 escapes from the main tank valve, but that is it.

Of course, as long as you do not take a hammer and nail and/or a wrench to the CO2 cylinder, you will be fine.


----------



## vraev

Ah! GOod to know. thanks! I guess I am just a bit wary about it because none of my previous hobbies had anything like this...with the potential..to do damage. I can't wait to get my new regulator and get this show going.


----------



## smithron

vraev

The reply to your earlier question concerning the working pressure is that after being turned off all night - it remains the same at 35 PSI. I'll just keep my fingers crossed and avoid screwing around with the thing until I find a higher end replacement.


----------



## iam.mike

smithron said:


> vraev
> 
> The reply to your earlier question concerning the working pressure is that after being turned off all night - it remains the same at 35 PSI. I'll just keep my fingers crossed and avoid screwing around with the thing until I find a higher end replacement.


Mine has been rock solid just above 30 psi when it is turned off. For a inexpensive regulator it does the job for me. I'm not experiencing the same issues has the other members on the forum. It does have the correct threads (CGA 320 and includes a nylon washer). It goes on smoothly, did not over tighten and did the soap test and no leaks. I use glycerin in the bubble counter and I get consistent and accurate bubble counts. The solenoid has a slight hum but not hot to the touch.


----------



## vraev

Thats good to know Mike. Well... I already ordered my aquatek regulator. So I will still try to return the Dici regulator. I think at this moment I am just seeing too many negative reviews of this product, but not many positive reviews.


----------



## FlyingHellFish

Hey Mike, if you increase the bubble count does the working pressure raise or drop? 

That a nice set up, I wanted the silver but all they had was red.


----------



## tom g

*fabco valve*

ok where the hell did u find the 10/32 to 1/8 adaptor for your set up tell me u have a few extra , i gave up on mine 
thanks 
tom


----------



## iam.mike

FlyingHellFish said:


> Hey Mike, if you increase the bubble count does the working pressure raise or drop?
> 
> That a nice set up, I wanted the silver but all they had was red.


If you raise the bubble count significantly the pressure drops by 1 or 2 psi.


----------



## tom g

*reg*

vrev.....i have had a reg fail on a milwakee, a bottle is made so it wont automatically launch in your appt,the only way a bottle will do anything violent like that is if u take a hammer and knock off the valve, when my regulator went it blew off ,the c02 escaped thru the rregulator ,thats it .my regulator is shot but the bottle didnt take off like a rocket. 
cheers
tom


----------



## vraev

hmm...thts good to know. I don't think CO2 escaping into my apt wil be an issue due to the ventilation I have, plus my apt is full of plants, perhaps my CPs will actually get a growth spurt. lol


----------



## Darkblade48

vraev said:


> hmm...thts good to know. I don't think CO2 escaping into my apt wil be an issue due to the ventilation I have, plus my apt is full of plants, perhaps my CPs will actually get a growth spurt. lol


Don't worry too much; even if your CO2 cylinder were to completely vent, unless you were living in an air tight apartment, you will be fine.

You may get scared though, since the sound of CO2 rushing out is quite loud


----------



## tom g

*tank*

OMG yes it will scare the living crap out of u ,it did me and i am use to loud noises as i work in a garage .even worse scared the crap out of wife and she didnt know i had a c02 tank ........ busted 
im not sure if its standard with all the c02 tank users but some how the tanks should be strapped so they dont tip over and cause problems , a bungee cord will work mint or a few tie straps ,cyl should always be strapped to a solid surface .
cheers 
tom


----------



## Darkblade48

Technically speaking, yes, Ontario workplace health and safety laws require that pressurized gas cylinders be strapped to a fixed, wall mounted bracket when in operation.

Ideally, this would also be true in the home, but... 

As long as you are careful not to knock the cylinder over, you should be fine.

If you have a small (say) 5 pound cylinder, and a large/heavy regulator, then you may want to strap the cylinder to something to prevent it from tipping over due to the weight of the regulator when the cylinder empties.


----------



## vraev

Is it normal for the tank pressure to drop during operation and then bump back up once the solenoid goes off?

I was cleaning the tank today after getting sick of the algae and did a water change...was experimenting by moving the diffuser out of the tank during operation and moved it to the other side near the filter inlet. Then moved it back....after cleaning..I looked at the tank before pulling the plug and the tank pressure was close to 500. I turned it off...and now its almost back to 1000psi. It came at 1000psi. Forgot taking a picture then. Will monitor it at the end of the day tomorrow and see if it drops so much again. Had this running for only 3 days now. First two days was normal...no drop at all. I am hoping that somehow removing the diffuser from the tank during operation somehow did this...but logic suggests it shouldn't happen...the needle valve is the one controlling the output. I am running it at 3bps.


----------



## Darkblade48

When the solenoid plunger opens, you may see a slight drop, but it should not be a 500 PSI drop.

Keep monitoring the CO2. On another note; your cylinder pressure is only 900 PSI or so, not 1000 PSI. If you are sure you received it at 1000 PSI, and it has only been 3 days and it is already at 900 PSI, then you probably have a leak. Is the CO2 cylinder lighter than when you purchased it?

Also, your delivery pressure seems a bit high (almost 50 PSI). There really is no need to have it this high, and could potentially damage the needle valve.


----------



## vraev

Excuse the parallax error....couldn't take shot head on at night with my iphone....flash is un-controllable...completely unreadable with flash head on. Its 1000psi and yes...I know it was 1000psi ON THE BAR. perfect! I can't tell whether its lighter..well...atleast not crazy light. Its a 10lb cylinder..so total around 25lbs...can't tell diff between 20 vs 25. lol... 
Regarding delivery pressure....its always constant at 30psi regularly. I don't know if I can change it...there is no manual. lol. I guess the nut with aquatek logo can be rotated with a wrench? When the solenoid is closed like the pic above...it goes to 40. I'll keep a close watch tomorrow and keep u posted. 

thanks


----------



## Darkblade48

Use a scale to measure the weight of the cylinder.

For the delivery pressure, I cannot be sure without taking a look at the regulator myself, but the delivery pressure should be adjustable (either with a wrench or an Allen key). The adjustment knob might even be under the Aquatek logo/sticker.


----------



## FlyingHellFish

The older models yes, but even so, they are against that and it voids your warranty. You shouldn't have to fiddle around with a pre-set regulator, try contacting Aquatek and explain the drop. It could be a leak if it's 1000 to 900, also notice that room temperature plays a role.

I heard the newer Aquatek are not adjustable, or should not be adjusted. If you do manage to twist the cap, you will find that it's just a spring and some other junk. I don't think you should open Pandora's box, try every other options before fiddling with a brand new rig. I hate the way they changed the gauges to a black plastic, is it a rubbery cheap plastic? The really older ones came with a green with chrome colour gauge. 

This type of regulator is very common, the Aquatek, Aquatic Life, DICI etc etc have all the similar design. For the Aquatic Life (Normal size, not the compact), someone on theplantedtank open up the cap and it was just the internal workings. No allen key etc, the DICI I got came with an allen key for the stem / nipple which is sort of pointless since it comes pre-connected. I'm guessing it's optional if you wanted to change to a BSP European connection. The threading is 22mm compared to our 21mm. 

Anyways, monitor it for a while, don't open that cap, contact Aquatek and remember to test for leaks with soapy water.

There, I hope you saved you time researching. 
===================================


Yo Dark, do you have any knowledge on different stem/nipple for Co2? Word on the street says that you can change the Nut and keep the stem/nipple and it will seal fine. Example - BSP Nut changed to a CGA 320 Nut while keeping the nipple. I have notice there are a few different style stem/nipple, some with filter and an "inlet gasket" with a rubber O-ring. The European style seem to have this "inlet gasket" while we just use nylon washers.
Did you add a filter on your stem? Some regulators have it, some don't, not sure if it's really that important.


----------



## Darkblade48

FlyingHellFish said:


> Yo Dark, do you have any knowledge on different stem/nipple for Co2? Word on the street says that you can change the Nut and keep the stem/nipple and it will seal fine. Example - BSP Nut changed to a CGA 320 Nut while keeping the nipple. I have notice there are a few different style stem/nipple, some with filter and an "inlet gasket" with a rubber O-ring. The European style seem to have this "inlet gasket" while we just use nylon washers.
> Did you add a filter on your stem? Some regulators have it, some don't, not sure if it's really that important.


I have not mixed nipple/nut connections. I suppose it could work, but I have never needed to do such a thing. I assume you are asking because you have a (say) Asian regulator and wish to adapt it to the North American standard. It may be more trouble than it is worth.

I do not use a filter on my stem.


----------



## FlyingHellFish

^ well, as long as the stem is the correct fitting NPT 1/4 for example, I been told you can just replace the NUT leading to the cylinder.

I was asking more so on the type of stem/nipple that are out there. While most of them are the flat kind with a nylon washer placed on top, there is a few that have "inlet gasket" and filters and various other things like O-ring.

Maybe I should give MircoMatic a call, I remember seeing them sell a CGA 320 set up that had a filter and all the works. I'm not just sure it's worth the extra cash because I can just get a chrome one instead of the dull colour brass.

Q' - Have you ever seen those stem with a space for a "inlet gasket"? It's like an oversized washer that is placed on top of the stem. I'm confused about what to add next, do I just add another washer or a rubber o-ring?

Do American standard even use rubber o-ring?

This is what I'm talking about.....


----------



## Darkblade48

FlyingHellFish said:


> Maybe I should give MircoMatic a call, I remember seeing them sell a CGA 320 set up that had a filter and all the works. I'm not just sure it's worth the extra cash because I can just get a chrome one instead of the dull colour brass.


There really is no need to have a filter, unless you want to spend the extra money. The filter is probably there for beer setups; you wouldn't want little bits of garbage getting into your beer.

Of course, if you wanted peace of mind, you could purchase it.



FlyingHellFish said:


> Q' - Have you ever seen those stem with a space for a "inlet gasket"? It's like an oversized washer that is placed on top of the stem. I'm confused about what to add next, do I just add another washer or a rubber o-ring?
> 
> Do American standard even use rubber o-ring?
> 
> This is what I'm talking about.....


American standard usually will have a nylon washer or a permaseal between the nut/stem and the CO2 cylinder.


----------



## FlyingHellFish

Yeah, that is where I'm confused. We commonly use a washer, yet iam.mike is using the rubber o-ring in his DICI connection. Surprisingly his working pressure is constant without any problems.

I did both the route with rubber O-ring and without, both gave me inconsistent pressure. Another user got the compact version that came without the rubber O-ring, he too had a huge spike. AI guys told me I didn't need the O-ring but couldn't answer me why it was included. 

What I'm getting at is, maybe if I can replace the stem and nut the unit will work? The problem is, I'm not sure the connection is NPT 1/4 for the stem to the regulator. There is also the issue of "Snap on" washer or "inlet gasket", supposedly some of the M series had this. 

By the way, that picture came from the MicroMatic site for a replacement part 320 connection. 

Most places will not comment on a product that isn't their, which is understandable, so I'm kind of stuck asking questions here.


----------



## Darkblade48

Well, I have not had any experience working with non-North American setups, precisely for this reason; it is too confusing and not worth the risk of mismatched parts, leaks, inconsistent pressure leading to livestock death, etc.

You can easily measure the regulator input port. Try replacing the stem and nut with a standard CGA320 stem/nut. If they do not fit, then you are only out $10-15. 

Too bad I'm not local, I think I have a spare CGA320 nipple/stem.


----------



## vraev

okay! Here is what happened since 9AM when I turned this thing on today:

before turning on:









after turning on:









couple of min or so:









In an half an hour or so









Just came back from school... 4:30 PM









was shocked...tried opening the main valve on cylinder a bit more...









So question...lol...do u have to open the cylinder all the way? I guess it makes sense...as gas escapes..internal pressure isn't the same anymore.

@FHF...the regulator actually feels better than the DICI. A lot more solid. The solenoid is as quoted...cool to touch. It feels like a nice product. The gauges do have a plastic back to them...but doesn't feel rubbery...more like solid plastic. I like the needle valve being brass and overall regulator has a nice weight to it.Comes with 2 washers.


----------



## Darkblade48

vraev said:


> okay! Here is what happened since 9AM when I turned this thing on today:
> 
> before turning on:
> 
> after turning on:
> 
> couple of min or so:
> 
> In an half an hour or so


Up to this point is fine.



vraev said:


> Just came back from school... 4:30 PM
> 
> was shocked...tried opening the main valve on cylinder a bit more...


How far did you have the CO2 cylinder valve open before? Giving it 1.5 - 2 counterclockwise turns to fully open the cylinder should be enough. There should be no difference between this and opening it "all the way".

Though, with such a drastic pressure drop, either you only had the CO2 cylinder open a fraction or you have a leak.



vraev said:


> So question...lol...do u have to open the cylinder all the way? I guess it makes sense...*as gas escapes..internal pressure isn't the same anymore*.


No, the internal pressure will remain the same due to the equilibrium between liquid <-> gaseous CO2. The internal pressure will only decrease if there is no more liquid CO2 remaining.


----------



## vraev

When I initially opened it...even now...I haven't turned a full turn... I just cranked it open a bit so that I could get a reading at 1000psi. Didn't open it fully at all. So yeah...this would now be like a quarter turn open or so.


----------



## Darkblade48

vraev said:


> When I initially opened it...even now...I haven't turned a full turn... I just cranked it open a bit so that I could get a reading at 1000psi. Didn't open it fully at all.


Give it 1.5 turns, leave it there, and monitor again.


----------



## vraev

k. will monitor again. thanks


----------



## FlyingHellFish

I wish I went with that, the cool to touch solenoid is a nice feature as the DICI's gets really hot. Did you buy it from amazon? It won't let me ship to Toronto for some reason.

For operating the set up, you're suppose to open the knob fully. Pretty much, after connecting the regulator, you open the needle valve slightly (so you won't damage your needle valve or lower gauge), plug in the solenoid and open the knob slightly to get 1000 psi reading.

Then operating the whole rig, you open the knob fully on the Co2 regulator.

There also some things you can do to test, like getting the desire reading and bubble count and closing the Co2 cylinder and reading the numbers in the morning. I had a bunch of private message on another forum from various power sellers, I just end up getting a Aquatic Life and avoiding the headaches.

Here is Step 2 of Rexgrigg instruction:



> See that big knob on the top of the cylinder? That's the cylinder knob. And once you have the regulator attached (Stop right now. Get your wrench and give that regulator nut another good turn) you need to fully open this knob. If you hear noise then go back to the previous step. Some cheap regulators have very precise directions on how to open up the cylinder knob. It's about a 10 step process to avoid damaging the regulator. When I gave a copy of those directions to the shop where I buy my regulators it took them 30 minutes to quit laughing.


----------



## vraev

yup! Got it from amazon becos its USPS shipping. Expensive but no surprises like f***ing UPS.

Looks stable so far today.









Need to get a brass check valve. The cheap drop checker w check valve from Aquatek is exactly as it sounds..cheap. I do have a second check valve...but thats plastic too.










Btw...I don't know if I am doing anything wrong with this drop checker. No change in color at all....no matter how much I open the needle valve. I guess the CO2 isn't dissolving into the water as much.


----------



## Darkblade48

vraev said:


> Need to get a brass check valve. The cheap drop checker w check valve from Aquatek is exactly as it sounds..cheap. I do have a second check valve...but thats plastic too.


I've tried several brass ones (some from eBay, some from HK, etc). For whatever reason, they eventually allow water back through the tubing (!!!) effectively endangering the regulator.

I've just been using a plastic one, and replacing it every year or so. For a few bucks, I could care less.



vraev said:


> Btw...I don't know if I am doing anything wrong with this drop checker. No change in color at all....no matter how much I open the needle valve. I guess the CO2 isn't dissolving into the water as much.


To me, it seems to be a little green. Still quite blue though. The excessive bromothymol blue that has been added makes differentiating the colours a bit hard, though.


----------



## vraev

Hmm...good to know...I guess I'll just keep it in mind to replace the tubing/valve after an year.

YEah...I have been following the instructions on the dropchecker...but I agree...its too much indicator. I put 5 drops. The checker is actually green-dark green...but not blue. It was bluish dark green before I started CO2 injection though...


----------



## Darkblade48

vraev said:


> Hmm...good to know...I guess I'll just keep it in mind to replace the tubing/valve after an year.
> 
> YEah...I have been following the instructions on the dropchecker...but I agree...its too much indicator. I put 5 drops. The checker is actually green-dark green...but not blue. It was bluish dark green before I started CO2 injection though...


You don't really need to change the tubing, just the check valve.

As for the drop checker, you can use less drops; use enough so that you can see a colour change, but not so much that it's hard to discern the differences.

The drop checker should be completely blue immediately upon adding the bromothymol blue to the 4 dkH reference solution. I assume you are using a 4 dkH reference solution? If not, your drop checker will not work properly...


----------



## vraev

hmm...IIRC....it was actually dark green...same color when I added it. But I'll remake it later today and check. I am using the AI drop checker with indicator and the CALaqua reference solution. It didnt say that it was 4dkH...but I assumed it was.


----------



## default

vraev said:


> Is it normal for the tank pressure to drop during operation and then bump back up once the solenoid goes off?
> 
> I was cleaning the tank today after getting sick of the algae and did a water change...was experimenting by moving the diffuser out of the tank during operation and moved it to the other side near the filter inlet. Then moved it back....after cleaning..I looked at the tank before pulling the plug and the tank pressure was close to 500. I turned it off...and now its almost back to 1000psi. It came at 1000psi. Forgot taking a picture then. Will monitor it at the end of the day tomorrow and see if it drops so much again. Had this running for only 3 days now. First two days was normal...no drop at all. I am hoping that somehow removing the diffuser from the tank during operation somehow did this...but logic suggests it shouldn't happen...the needle valve is the one controlling the output. I am running it at 3bps.


how is the regulator? i was planning on ordering a aquatek.


----------



## Darkblade48

vraev said:


> hmm...IIRC....it was actually dark green...same color when I added it. But I'll remake it later today and check. I am using the AI drop checker with indicator and the CALaqua reference solution. It didnt say that it was 4dkH...but I assumed it was.


Well, it may be the reference solution or it may be the bromothymol blue. When you add the bromothymol blue to the 4 dkH reference solution, it should be undoubtedly blue.



As you can see, undoubtedly blue.


----------



## vraev

default said:


> how is the regulator? i was planning on ordering a aquatek.


so far no complaints. I like it. I know I did not personally use the DICI regulator. But, the aquatek one seems better built. The solenoid...the full brass construction just feels more reliable. Only time will tell if it indeed is...and I have no doubts that it will be. I have only read positive feedback about this regulator unlike the DICI ones. Shipping is expensive though...forewarned. a little over half the cost of the regulator.

@DB... hmm....I am sure it was green. I'll try it again and see what happens. Thanks!


----------



## default

vraev said:


> so far no complaints. I like it. I know I did not personally use the DICI regulator. But, the aquatek one seems better built. The solenoid...the full brass construction just feels more reliable. Only time will tell if it indeed is...and I have no doubts that it will be. I have only read positive feedback about this regulator unlike the DICI ones. Shipping is expensive though...forewarned. a little over half the cost of the regulator.
> 
> @DB... hmm....I am sure it was green. I'll try it again and see what happens. Thanks!


We should of group ordered and slit shipping 
but i heard its preset to 30 psi?.. are you able to open the cylinder completely without any issues? i know that milwaukee asks you to open it completely but not sure of the other makes.
also, for darkblade, im just curious, am i able to briefly open a co2 cylinder without the regulator on, or would it go rocketeering on me?


----------



## vraev

I guess...but its still not too feasible...considering the driving distance...one of us would still be spending 20$ on gas to pick up the regulator...rendering the 20$ save moot. Either way...I was looking around for regulators once i decided I was going to return the DICI...and FHF suggested either aquatek or aquatic life....I googled a bit and found no complaints on the aquatek and went with it.

I was definitely a bit scared about breaking my delivery pressure gauge...if thats what u are referring to. There is actually a video on the aquatek website on the installation instructions. I just followed it. Yeah...the pressure just shot to 30psi and stayed there. Even now when its open like 1 and a half turns... delivery pressure is constant.


----------



## Darkblade48

default said:


> also, for darkblade, im just curious, am i able to briefly open a co2 cylinder without the regulator on, or would it go rocketeering on me?


It would make a loud hissing noise, that would likely scare you, causing you to knock the CO2 cylinder over. 

Other than that, it would not go rocketing away. Just hold it down. I've opened up 50 pound CO2 cylinders before...


----------



## default

Darkblade48 said:


> It would make a loud hissing noise, that would likely scare you, causing you to knock the CO2 cylinder over.
> 
> Other than that, it would not go rocketing away. Just hold it down. I've opened up 50 pound CO2 cylinders before...


lol sounds like a possiblitly. i had the check valve "pop" and i thought i destroyed everything.. i want to try it but had a bad feeling that i was gonna gonna get launched with it.
will try it next time.
and most likely gonna get the aquatek!


----------



## FlyingHellFish

vraev said:


> There is actually a video on the aquatek website on the installation instructions. I just followed it. Yeah...the pressure just shot to 30psi and stayed there. Even now when its open like 1 and a half turns... delivery pressure is constant.


Yes! Glad I could helped, makes it kind of worth wild. I hear their customer service is nothing short but amazing.

I'm still trying to source parts for a DIY and to be honest, it's not really worth it. I like the idea of having a 1 year warranty (Aquatic Life is based in Cali) so you only dish out shipping.

@default - A lot of people turn the knob on really fast to blast any dust or debris out of their cylinder.


----------



## Darkblade48

FlyingHellFish said:


> I'm still trying to source parts for a DIY and to be honest, it's not really worth it. I like the idea of having a 1 year warranty (Aquatic Life is based in Cali) so you only dish out shipping.


Well, this is up to you; each method has its own advantages and disadvantages, the ultimately, the decision is yours to make.


----------



## vraev

@FHF, Yeah dude! Its totally worth going with the big name brands for technologies that we will be using for a while...the filter, regulator, "an approved" cylinder, etc. I guess lights would fall in there as well...but sometimes its worth the risk checking out cheaper options. Personally no regrets with this packaged regulator. I would had liked it if there was a second needle valve to fine tune the bubble count. I mean its really really sensitive....a 1/16 of a turn is enough to change bubble rate from 2-6 or so. But it is nice and responsive and u can find the sweetspot.

Now here is a question guys..... I was looking at amano's book and his tanks get like 8h CO2 and then 14h of aeration. Has anyone ever used a T junction, added a second check valve and directed flow from a air pump into the tank through the same diffuser? That way both can be independently controlled by timers.... check valve on the airpump side prevents CO2 from being wasted...and vice versa.


----------



## Darkblade48

vraev said:


> I mean its really really sensitive....a 1/16 of a turn is enough to change bubble rate from 2-6 or so. But it is nice and responsive and u can find the sweetspot.


With more expensive needle/metering valves, you can get much finer control. This means it would take more turns to get a change in bubble rate. This has the added advantage that a slight bump of the needle valve will not change the flow rate drastically, either gassing your livestock to death or starving your plants of CO2.



vraev said:


> Now here is a question guys..... I was looking at amano's book and his tanks get like 8h CO2 and then 14h of aeration. Has anyone ever used a T junction, added a second check valve and directed flow from a air pump into the tank through the same diffuser? That way both can be independently controlled by timers.... check valve on the airpump side prevents CO2 from being wasted...and vice versa.


What happened to the other 2 hours? 

I have never done this, but it could work, provided that your air pump can push enough air (i.e. create enough pressure) through the diffuser.


----------



## default

vraev said:


> @FHF, Yeah dude! Its totally worth going with the big name brands for technologies that we will be using for a while...the filter, regulator, "an approved" cylinder, etc. I guess lights would fall in there as well...but sometimes its worth the risk checking out cheaper options. Personally no regrets with this packaged regulator. I would had liked it if there was a second needle valve to fine tune the bubble count. I mean its really really sensitive....a 1/16 of a turn is enough to change bubble rate from 2-6 or so. But it is nice and responsive and u can find the sweetspot.
> 
> Now here is a question guys..... I was looking at amano's book and his tanks get like 8h CO2 and then 14h of aeration. Has anyone ever used a T junction, added a second check valve and directed flow from a air pump into the tank through the same diffuser? That way both can be independently controlled by timers.... check valve on the airpump side prevents CO2 from being wasted...and vice versa.


i am going to try that when i get the regulator in, but the only problem is with most diffusers the pressure needed is too high and may actually damage your air pump. if its a cheapo air pump, you could try, but i only heard negative effects.
i was actaully thinking about setting one of my koralias to do a wave like function at night to air it out, but that might be more dangerous for everything else lol.


----------



## vraev

Darkblade48 said:


> What happened to the other 2 hours?


Everyday earth "hours"?  lol! Considering the amount of power they require to run their gallery...2h is huge savings on the power bill.



default said:


> i am going to try that when i get the regulator in, but the only problem is with most diffusers the pressure needed is too high and may actually damage your air pump. if its a cheapo air pump, you could try, but i only heard negative effects.
> i was actaully thinking about setting one of my koralias to do a wave like function at night to air it out, but that might be more dangerous for everything else lol.


Well..if u look at the diffuser now...the cylinder pushes air out at 30-40psi...the bubbles of CO2 collect in the diffuser slowly...once the pressure builds inside the diffuser..then the microbubbles come out into the tank. As long as there is enough pressure for the air to stay in the diffuser without being forced back into the tubing..it should be fine. Personally I haven't used an airpump for aquaria in like 12 years now....and not even in canada..lol..so I personally don't know at which pressure it pushes air out.

Haha!! Be careful with the wave. Considering that the water in a nature aquarium is really close to teh top of the tank...its definitely not too safe. lol.


----------



## default

vraev said:


> Everyday earth "hours"?  lol! Considering the amount of power they require to run their gallery...2h is huge savings on the power bill.
> 
> Well..if u look at the diffuser now...the cylinder pushes air out at 30-40psi...the bubbles of CO2 collect in the diffuser slowly...once the pressure builds inside the diffuser..then the microbubbles come out into the tank. As long as there is enough pressure for the air to stay in the diffuser without being forced back into the tubing..it should be fine. Personally I haven't used an airpump for aquaria in like 12 years now....and not even in canada..lol..so I personally don't know at which pressure it pushes air out.
> 
> Haha!! Be careful with the wave. Considering that the water in a nature aquarium is really close to teh top of the tank...its definitely not too safe. lol.


lol i just tired the wave and it seems pretty cool, scares the crap out of my fish, but looks nice.
but when i meant its bad for the pump, is that the pressure required would damage the internal parts of the pump, i know and seen it work, it looks cool, but i've heard it will increase the noise and affect performance of the pump in the long run.


----------



## default

Alright, so my aquatek arrived... Question is, I turned the cylinder knob maybe 1.5-2 times around, but even when I close it the pressure would still be 800psi is that normal?


----------



## vraev

When you have it open, on my 10lb cylinder, it constantly stays at 1000psi. When you close it, I would imagine it does indeed drop slowly as the CO2 within the lines is cleared. And yes....even on mine, when I close it...it still stays at 1000psi- ish. 

If you want to check whether it is working properly, do what i did by being too cautious...close the main valve all the way, then just tweak it open a hair...very little. Then run the cylinder...as I showed in the pics here, the pressure should drop.


----------



## default

vraev said:


> When you have it open, on my 10lb cylinder, it constantly stays at 1000psi. When you close it, I would imagine it does indeed drop slowly as the CO2 within the lines is cleared. And yes....even on mine, when I close it...it still stays at 1000psi- ish.
> 
> If you want to check whether it is working properly, do what i did by being too cautious...close the main valve all the way, then just tweak it open a hair...very little. Then run the cylinder...as I showed in the pics here, the pressure should drop.


Thanks! I will try it when I need to then. The unit looks fine, the bubble counter basically slows down and then 'stops' at around 5-10 minutes. I only turned the cylinder knob 1-2 complete circles. Sounds normal?
Cheers


----------



## vraev

yup! it sounds normal. There is that delay in the bubble counter stabilization. BTW...I would recommend a check valve. I got a good quality plastic check valve that I am using. The aquatek bubble counter check valve failed in two days and I could see water moving past the bubble counter. 

Also...do u have to keep filling water in your bubble counter? In mine, the CO2 forces up water slowly up the tube into the tank leaving the bubble counter almost empty. it has seemingly now stabilized at 1/4th the volume of the bubble counter.


----------



## default

vraev said:


> yup! it sounds normal. There is that delay in the bubble counter stabilization. BTW...I would recommend a check valve. I got a good quality plastic check valve that I am using. The aquatek bubble counter check valve failed in two days and I could see water moving past the bubble counter.
> 
> Also...do u have to keep filling water in your bubble counter? In mine, the CO2 forces up water slowly up the tube into the tank leaving the bubble counter almost empty. it has seemingly now stabilized at 1/4th the volume of the bubble counter.


Yea their check valve really sucks. I use it with another check valve closer to the regulator. Also the water does drain and gets pushed up as well... Mines at half from the original 3/4. Hopefully it's stable


----------



## Darkblade48

Brass check valves (if you can find quality made ones) are much better than plastic valves as they will not harden with time.

However, I have not found reliable brass check valves (that are not too expensive), so I just use cheap plastic check valves and replace them on a yearly basis. They are fairly cheap, so I do not mind.

As for the bubble counter fluid, you can try heavier liquids such as glycerin or mineral oil (try not to get any into your aquarium). They also have the advantage of not evaporating.


----------



## vraev

Yeah! I am really concerned about the oil getting into the tank...thats why I rather prefer using water...especially considering how crappy the bubble counter is...I have no faith in it. lol! 

And yes....I guess I will just replace check valves as well. The plastic ones are easier and cheaper.


----------



## manmadecorals

So i just got the fabco solenoid valve i ordered 3 weeks ago but it didn't come with an electrical outlet. Can anyone tell me how to wire the adapter? Here's a pic of it.

Thanks!


----------



## Darkblade48

You need an electrical cord, some spade connectors, tube shrink wrap and electrical tape (to make the final appearance look neat...and safe).

If you feel uncomfortable doing it yourself, perhaps find someone that is more adept at working with this kind of thig?


----------



## manmadecorals

I've done it before on my other solenoid valve but this one has three prongs...how do i know which one to connect to? An electrical cord on has two wires...positive and negative...what am i supposed to connect the third one to?


----------



## iam.mike

The third prong is for ground. I've recently wired one similar to that one. I'll see if I can post some pics when I'm home tonight.


----------



## manmadecorals

iam.mike said:


> The third prong is for ground. I've recently wired one similar to that one. I'll see if I can post some pics when I'm home tonight.


So the other two is for positive?

Thanks! That would be awesome!


----------



## iam.mike

manhtu said:


> So the other two is for positive?
> 
> Thanks! That would be awesome!


For 120 volt wall outlet you have three prongs. The middle is ground, the two outside is either "Hot, +ve" narrow slot or "Neutral, -ve" wide slot. Black wire is "Hot" and white wire is "Neutral.

For the solenoid you'll require a three prong plug. Below is an example taken from fabco master catalog, you need to confirm your solenoid type for proper wiring.

I hope this helps.

http://img.directindustry.com/pdf/repository_di/11741/master-catalog-148472_197b.jpg

Here is their entire master catalog http://pdf.directindustry.com/pdf/incat/solenoid-valve-11741-148472-_197.html


----------



## manmadecorals

That's what i have...i have the three prongs plug as per the imagine...all i need is to wire that plug to an electrical plug. I was thinking of just stripping an extension cord and connect it to the three prongs plug. My problem is that an extention cord only has - and +. What do I do with the Ground? Or do i need to buy a different type of electrical cord?


----------



## Jaysan

Probably need one that has a 3 prong outlet.
The one you have probably has 2


----------



## iam.mike

Your extension chord needs to have three prongs and three wires, one for ground.


----------



## Jaysan

Will probably drop by dollar store today and pick up an extension cord with 3 prong to set mine up,


----------



## iam.mike

You don't need a heavy duty gauge. 18 gauge will suffice. If the wires are too thick you won't be able to stuff the wires in there. Higher the number (gauge) thinner it is, but you don't want to go less than the recommended.


----------



## manmadecorals

Jaysan said:


> Will probably drop by dollar store today and pick up an extension cord with 3 prong to set mine up,


if you're going to pick one up today grab me one too loser!


----------



## manmadecorals

manhtu said:


> if you're going to pick one up today grab me one too loser!


Although i doubt the dollar store will have one...i'd say walmart is best bet...actually i'll be at SQ1 one today anyways. I'll just pick one up while i'm there and do it up tonight as well


----------



## destructo

Has anyone had their tank filled at Dry Ice & Gases?


----------



## manmadecorals

and finally the finished product


----------



## Darkblade48

Looks good, but you may have to rotate some of the parts so that the bubble counter is in the correct direction when the entire setup is attached to the CO2 cylinder.


----------



## Jaysan

Hoping to have my setup done by this week.

I'm still debating on setting it up for a Paintball setup or a 5-10lb tank =(


----------



## Darkblade48

Jaysan said:


> Hoping to have my setup done by this week.
> 
> I'm still debating on setting it up for a Paintball setup or a 5-10lb tank =(


If you have the space, go for the largest cylinder. Less refills is a definite plus, and CO2 is a little cheaper per pound as well.


----------



## Jaysan

Darkblade48 said:


> If you have the space, go for the largest cylinder. Less refills is a definite plus, and CO2 is a little cheaper per pound as well.


Yeah, I was thinking that as well.

I think a 5lb filled tank is about $70 or $75 and a 10lb is either $80 or $85.
A paintball tank, 20oz. is about 30 and refill is about $6.

Gotta see how much space I have under my tank once I put the filter cannister in there. Should have enough space.

My eheim filter is still outside the cabinet as I have not drilled holes for the tubes to come out from the back, haha


----------



## Darkblade48

Jaysan said:


> Yeah, I was thinking that as well.
> 
> I think a 5lb filled tank is about $70 or $75 and a 10lb is either $80 or $85.
> A paintball tank, 20oz. is about 30 and refill is about $6.
> 
> Gotta see how much space I have under my tank once I put the filter cannister in there. Should have enough space.
> 
> My eheim filter is still outside the cabinet as I have not drilled holes for the tubes to come out from the back, haha


I could have sworn the prices for CO2 were a little cheaper than that, but perhaps they have gone up.

Consider the following:

20 oz = 1.25 pounds of CO2 (paintball cylinder)
This is 1/8 the weight of a 10 pound CO2 cylinder.

You would have to refill the paintball cylinder 7 times (assuming it comes filled) to have the same amount of CO2. 7 * $6 per refill = $42. Cost of the paintball cylinder is $30, so total is $72.

Cost of a 10 pound CO2 cylinder is (say) $85.

Difference is $13. Is your time and money that you spend on 7 trips worth the $13 difference? 

By the way, applying the same logic to the 5 pound cylinder may make it seem better than the 10 pound cylinder, but once you remember that it is only half the amount of CO2 as the 10 pound cylinder (and the fact that a refill is around $20), you will see that the 10 pound cylinder is the clear choice.


----------



## Jaysan

Darkblade48 said:


> I could have sworn the prices for CO2 were a little cheaper than that, but perhaps they have gone up.
> 
> Consider the following:
> 
> 20 oz = 1.25 pounds of CO2 (paintball cylinder)
> This is 1/8 the weight of a 10 pound CO2 cylinder.
> 
> You would have to refill the paintball cylinder 7 times (assuming it comes filled) to have the same amount of CO2. 7 * $6 per refill = $42. Cost of the paintball cylinder is $30, so total is $72.
> 
> Cost of a 10 pound CO2 cylinder is (say) $85.
> 
> Difference is $13. Is your time and money that you spend on 7 trips worth the $13 difference?
> 
> By the way, applying the same logic to the 5 pound cylinder may make it seem better than the 10 pound cylinder, but once you remember that it is only half the amount of CO2 as the 10 pound cylinder (and the fact that a refill is around $20), you will see that the 10 pound cylinder is the clear choice.


haha, 
You made my decision that much easier 

Now I have to change my plan.
I was originally going to go co2 paintball setup, but I guess the better solution in the long run would be to pickup a 10lb tank filled for about $80. Less trips to get it filled = more time for other things.

Thinking about it, I think the regulator I have fits a paintball setup only. It has the pin valve. 
Will have to look at picking up another regulator or use one from a setup I have in the mean time.


----------



## Darkblade48

Jaysan said:


> haha,
> You made my decision that much easier
> 
> Now I have to change my plan.
> I was originally going to go co2 paintball setup, but I guess the better solution in the long run would be to pickup a 10lb tank filled for about $80. Less trips to get it filled = more time for other things.


I forgot to mention the price of gas in my previous post as well 



Jaysan said:


> Thinking about it, I think the regulator I have fits a paintball setup only. It has the pin valve.
> Will have to look at picking up another regulator or use one from a setup I have in the mean time.


If your regulator only has a pin valve, it will not work with 5 and 10 pound CO2 cylinders (which use a CGA320 connection). You may be able to adapt the regulator for normal CO2 cylinders, but I have never seen anyone go from paintball cylinder regulator to normal CO2 cylinders.

As for CO2 regulators, new (single stage) regulators can often be bought online for reasonable prices. The deals are the dual stage regulators that can sometimes be found for the same price (as the single stage regulators) on eBay


----------



## manmadecorals

just wanted to confirm...on the Solenoid Valve... 1 is in and 2 is out right?


----------



## Darkblade48

manhtu said:


> just wanted to confirm...on the Solenoid Valve... 1 is in and 2 is out right?


If this is the Fabco solenoid, then yes.


----------



## manmadecorals

Darkblade48 said:


> If this is the Fabco solenoid, then yes.


Thanks! I've tested it out yesterday and everything seems to work perfectly. Although the low pressure PSI seems to stick at around 30 regardless of how much i turn the knob. It goes up just a bit above 30 when i fully turn close the knob though. It goes back down to 0 when i turn off the C02 though, is that normal or did i break the gauge?


----------



## Darkblade48

manhtu said:


> Thanks! I've tested it out yesterday and everything seems to work perfectly. Although the low pressure PSI seems to stick at around 30 regardless of how much i turn the knob. It goes up just a bit above 30 when i fully turn close the knob though. It goes back down to 0 when i turn off the C02 though, is that normal or did i break the gauge?


Which knob are you turning?

What regulator are you using? It may just have a pre-set delivery pressure.


----------



## manmadecorals

the knob right next to the low pressure gauge on the picture


----------



## Darkblade48

manhtu said:


> the knob right next to the low pressure gauge on the picture


The brand of regulator that you are using may help, but from the picture, the described knob does not appear to adjust the delivery pressure.


----------



## manmadecorals

unfortunately there is no name on the regulator or model number... I was given this regulator as a gift.


----------



## manmadecorals

Now that i think about it...i think i may have broken the low pressure gauge...do you know where i can buy a new one?


----------



## Darkblade48

manhtu said:


> Now that i think about it...i think i may have broken the low pressure gauge...do you know where i can buy a new one?


eBay will probably be the cheapest place to look. Other places include your typical CO2 suppliers (Camcarb, Praxair, etc), though they will likely be more expensive.


----------



## manmadecorals

I FOUND THE MAKE AND MODEL OF REGULATOR!!!

http://www.aqua-medic.com/product/co2-regulator/

http://angelfins.ca/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=28217&products_id=388


----------



## Darkblade48

As your linked site mentions, the Aqua Medic regulators have a fixed working pressure of approximately 1.5 bar (22 PSI).

I am not sure which knob you are turning (are you turning the main CO2 cylinder valve?), but I do not see any knobs that can be turned on the regulator body itself.


----------



## manmadecorals

According to the manual the "knob" that I'm turning is the needle valve that is integrated into the regulator itself. I guess i didn't require that Fabco needle valve after all...


----------



## Darkblade48

An additional needle valve can never hurt.

Rather than looking for #10/32 to 1/8" fittings, you can use barb fittings instead and run the needle valve inline.

This way, you can achieve better control with the Fabco valve rather than the built in Aqua Medic valve.

If you decide to do this, be sure to open your Aqua Medic needle valve all the way, and let the Fabco needle valve do the controlling.


----------



## manmadecorals

Awesome, i'll make the necessary changes when i return home later tonight, Thanks Darkblade!


----------



## Darkblade48

Updated the first post with some information regarding CO2 refill pricing.


----------



## Darkblade48

Updated the first post with some pricing on CO2 cylinders. A 10 pound cylinder from Norwood is still $85, while a 10 pound cylinder from Camcarb is $130. 

Thanks goes to GaryC for the updated information.


----------



## Darkblade48

Updated some pricing information in the solenoid section.


----------



## Darkblade48

Updated the solenoid section.


----------



## FlyingHellFish

^ Good stuff! 

Your guide is pretty popular online, I seen it on various forums. Kudos for helping the newbies out and bringing more people into Co2. 

I'm about due for a tank refill, was thinking of switching to an aluminium tank for the look and the weight. Steel painted red is not really nice to look at. What you think? Worth the extra cost or should I just do the exchange?


----------



## Darkblade48

FlyingHellFish said:


> ^ Good stuff!
> 
> Your guide is pretty popular online, I seen it on various forums. Kudos for helping the newbies out and bringing more people into Co2.
> 
> I'm about due for a tank refill, was thinking of switching to an aluminium tank for the look and the weight. Steel painted red is not really nice to look at. What you think? Worth the extra cost or should I just do the exchange?


I've cross posted it on various forums  I'm glad that my guide can help newbies get into CO2 but at the same time, it can even help people that are experienced (it is a database of information for part numbers, etc!)

As for the tank refill, aesthetics is one issue, and then weight can be another (a 20 pound cylinder holding CO2 is heavy!). If you don't like the red colour, you can always knit a CO2 cylinder snuggy (people even try to sell these!).

If not, you can pay the extra for the aluminum cylinder. I would like to know where you are trading though, because Norwood and Camcarb usually just do a on the spot refill and don't do exchanges (at least not to my knowledge).

Last time I checked, Norwood didn't have any aluminum cylinders either.


----------



## FlyingHellFish

I was under the impression that I could pay extra for a new tank, cost of refill plus whatever aluminum cylinder they had. I have a 5 lbs that is nearly a year old, I would like to get it refill before winter comes along. Was hoping to grab one with a vampire collar.

When they do refill the tank, how long does it usually take? I guess I'm just stuck with this Steel Red missile.


----------



## Darkblade48

FlyingHellFish said:


> I was under the impression that I could pay extra for a new tank, cost of refill plus whatever aluminum cylinder they had. I have a 5 lbs that is nearly a year old, I would like to get it refill before winter comes along. Was hoping to grab one with a vampire collar.
> 
> When they do refill the tank, how long does it usually take? I guess I'm just stuck with this Steel Red missile.


If they have an aluminum tank, then I would assume you would pay for the difference (between it and steel) in addition to the refill cost.

I am not sure what the difference in cost is. In addition, if you want one with a collar, it may cost more (because the entire stem has to be removed to put on the collar).

Of course, if you wanted to, you could fit a collar onto your steel cylinder anytime (you just have to pay for it).

As for the refill, it takes 3 minutes or so. They do it while you wait, and it doesn't take long at all.


----------



## FlyingHellFish

Hey, just wanted to let you guys know about the pricing of a refilled tank.


Just got my 5 lb refilled at Herbert Williams, they usually either exchange it or make you wait a few days for the refill. Lucky since they were not busy, the guy agreed and started up their huge tank in the back, we're talking about the size of a boiler.


It was 21 dollar and less than 10 minutes. They do not carter to the DIY hobbyist for regulators so I didn't get any fittings I wanted. 


Also, I found out the early Azoo made for asian markets came with metric to standard adapters. There is also a type of CGA 320 nipple that is called a Quad Ring Seal, these have built in washers that sit on a top of the nipple. MicroMatic have these type. 

Standard CGA 320 have flat heads which a normal nylon washer would work.


----------



## FlyingHellFish

Oh and I forgot to add, if you look at your Gauges before connecting it, take note of where the resting needle sits. On the smaller gauges, some of them sit just a bit above the zero mark. 

I was a bit freaked out when my regulator's working pressure was 20 psi when it was suppose to be 25 - 30 psi nonadjustable. Sure enough, I find out that it sits just a bit higher than zero. 


Got my regulator reconnected and everything reads the same as before. I let the tank cool down a few hours so it wasn't super cold.


----------



## Darkblade48

Updated the following post with setup instructions as well as an image for reference.

http://gtaaquaria.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12271&page=2#14


----------



## AlexisF1

Is it Camcarb CO2 Ltd, 155 Signet Dr, North York, ON location?


----------



## Darkblade48

AlexisF1 said:


> Is it Camcarb CO2 Ltd, 155 Signet Dr, North York, ON location?


Thanks for letting me know of the update! I forgot that they moved earlier this year.


----------



## jtcanuck

*Pricing Update - Camcarb 10 lb tank*

I called today and was quoted $145 filled + tax for a 10lb tank.


----------



## Darkblade48

jtcanuck said:


> I called today and was quoted $145 filled + tax for a 10lb tank.


Camcarb wants $145 + tax for a filled 10 pounder? That seems excessively expensive...


----------



## aniroc

Last August I took my brand new 10 lb canister to Norwood Fire Extinguisher (62 Advance Rd). I was quoted $75 and told to come back next day. Following day, canister still empty, I drove two minutes further to Dry Ice & Gases (26 Dorchester Ave) where I paid $30 and have it filled on the spot.
The guy also carried my full cylinder to my car and showed me how to securely fasten it by holding it tight between front and back seat.


----------



## Darkblade48

aniroc said:


> Last August I took my brand new 10 lb canister to Norwood Fire Extinguisher (62 Advance Rd). I was quoted $75 and told to come back next day. Following day, canister still empty, I drove two minutes further to Dry Ice & Gases (26 Dorchester Ave) where I paid $30 and have it filled on the spot.
> The guy also carried my full cylinder to my car and showed me how to securely fasten it by holding it tight between front and back seat.


I'm confused. Unless prices have gone up drastically in the last few years, a refill at Norwood should only be $20 at most.

Camcarb also only charges $20...

The $75 quote was likely for a new cylinder, not a refill.


----------



## jtcanuck

*Does Dry Ice and Gasses sell Tanks?*

I've been trying to buy a Co2 tank from Norwood for a couple weeks. They keep saying that they did not put the tank together and call back in a couple days. I'd buy elsewhere if someone has similar prices. Camcarb was a lot more expensive.


----------



## Darkblade48

jtcanuck said:


> I've been trying to buy a Co2 tank from Norwood for a couple weeks. They keep saying that they did not put the tank together and call back in a couple days. I'd buy elsewhere if someone has similar prices. Camcarb was a lot more expensive.


I'd call back and check with Norwood; they will eventually get a CO2 cylinder in if you keep inquiring.

Camcarb is definitely more expensive (though they are about on par with Norwood for refills).


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## tom g

*norwood refill.....*

hey there just had a adventure getting my tank filled ,my tank has been in need of a fill for a few months just didn't have the time to get out to norwood to get it filled .finally made it out there last week dropped tank off was told it should be ready for tomorrow ,called Friday and it was not filled , so I went out that way today Monday called he didn't have it filled .
I have had great service before with no issues and deff affordable .but this fill was not my preferred service ,my advice if u are using norwood is to please call and verify he has c02 and can fill when u need it .
I did go down the street to dry ice on the Queensway , filled with no probs and for u no car guys place is open on sats till noon and will fill. very close to queunsway and walking distance .they are sticklers about the tank certification so if your tank is expired or close to it they will not fill .


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## Darkblade48

Sorry to hear about your experience with Norwood; perhaps it is time to start looking for new places.

In my (past) experience, Norwood would just fill up on the spot, provided they had the CO2.

Camcarb (which is nearby) does on the spot refills too.


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## tom g

*fill*

I've had no p robs for the last time..just seemed really evasive about 
when he could fill the other place charged 9 dollars more for a 10
Tank and they are open till noon on Saturday.
just got a real unprofessional vibe...


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## Darkblade48

Hm. Well, at least you got your cylinder filled in the end.


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## paddington

Thanks to this thread, I've decided to go the CO2 route. I have everything I need now except for a way to get the CO2 into the tank. I have a 112G tank filtered by an Eheim 2262. I've read that going the needlewheel route may be a good option for a tank as big as mine. I've searched the net and so far have not been able to find any detailed instructions on how to set this up.

Can you offer any guidance?

Thanks.


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## Darkblade48

paddington said:


> Thanks to this thread, I've decided to go the CO2 route. I have everything I need now except for a way to get the CO2 into the tank. I have a 112G tank filtered by an Eheim 2262. I've read that going the needlewheel route may be a good option for a tank as big as mine. I've searched the net and so far have not been able to find any detailed instructions on how to set this up.
> 
> Can you offer any guidance?
> 
> Thanks.


A needlewheel is a good option, but you will get a lot of bubbles throughout your aquarium (it will look like a bottle of soda).

I personally would go with an inline CO2 reactor (since you already have a canister filter).

A needlewheel pump is very similar to a regular water pump, with the exception that the impeller is broken up so that there are many "vanes." These serve to break up the incoming stream of CO2 into smaller bubbles.


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## paddington

Darkblade48 said:


> A needlewheel is a good option, but you will get a lot of bubbles throughout your aquarium (it will look like a bottle of soda).
> 
> I personally would go with an inline CO2 reactor (since you already have a canister filter).


Thanks for your quick response. The AquaMedic 1000 reactor is the only one I've seen but it seems to have some performance issues. Is that my best bet?


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## Darkblade48

paddington said:


> Thanks for your quick response. The AquaMedic 1000 reactor is the only one I've seen but it seems to have some performance issues. Is that my best bet?


I would try DIYing one myself first before looking to commercial solutions.

That being said, I do not have experience with commercial reactors.


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## Donutz

Found a place in the east for you east Scarborough / Durham folks. I haven't had a chance to visit them so this is just an FYI post. They refill CO2 cylinders for $2 per pound. They also perform hydrostatic testing but I didn't ask for pricing for this service. Typical of many places they have M-F hours; I was advised to call in advance to see if the guy is filling tanks on the day I want to go in. They will fill on the spot 'if' the guy is available. Here are the details:

http://www.premiumfireprotection.ca/en/

From the website:

1773 Bayly Street
Unit #10
Pickering, ON
L1W 2Y7
905-239-2721

Store Hours
Monday - Thursday: 7:30AM - 5:00PM
Friday: 7:30AM - 1:00PM


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## Darkblade48

Thanks for the info. The first post has been updated.


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## baishui

Darkblade48 said:


> Quality pre-built pressurized CO2 setups do exist, however. Rex Grigg, Orlando (who runs Green Leaf Aquariums) and Mike/Sergio (who run SuMo) all have excellent pre-built pressurized CO2 setups. Here are their respective websites:
> 
> http://www.bestaquariumregulator.com/index.htm
> http://www.greenleafaquariums.com/
> http://sumoregulator.com/


Looks like only the 2nd website is running right now. Their paintball regulator looks pretty, and price is pretty, too ($150). I might just get this one. Keep reading ....


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## Darkblade48

baishui said:


> Looks like only the 2nd website is running right now. Their paintball regulator looks pretty, and price is pretty, too ($150). I might just get this one. Keep reading ....


Yes, it looks like Rex Grigg has retired due to some health problems he has been having.

I am not sure what happened with Mike and Sergio...

Orlando is still doing well though


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## paddington

Anthony,

When connecting the CO2 hose to the barb on the regulator or an external reactor do you normally use a clamp to secure it? It seems to have an OD of 1/4". It doesn't seem easy to find a clamp that size.

Thanks.


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## Darkblade48

paddington said:


> Anthony,
> 
> When connecting the CO2 hose to the barb on the regulator or an external reactor do you normally use a clamp to secure it? It seems to have an OD of 1/4". It doesn't seem easy to find a clamp that size.
> 
> Thanks.


Hose clamps work fine. Zip ties will do in a pinch.


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## xriddler

Hey darkblade just wanted to help some others out if they are looking for new solenoids.

I have enquired a place near York Uni called TRC and they sell the SMC solenoid valve for $40.30+tax. Pretty reasonable price. It was recommended on a build forum here is the link of the valve people could use:

http://www.smcpneumatics.com/VDW21-6F-1-01N.html

The picture is a 3way but the valve is only 2way. you can also change the type you want just look at the pdf guide to decipher what it means and if you want to change anything like the voltage or coil style of it.


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## opticode

thanks xriddler, I also want to contribute something

I found a CO2 Cylinder seller not on your list that was able to beat any prices I could find for 2.5lbs and 5lbs cylinders.

Certified Cylinder Service Inc.
www.certifiedcylinder.ca


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## Darkblade48

xriddler said:


> Hey darkblade just wanted to help some others out if they are looking for new solenoids.
> 
> I have enquired a place near York Uni called TRC and they sell the SMC solenoid valve for $40.30+tax. Pretty reasonable price. It was recommended on a build forum here is the link of the valve people could use:
> 
> http://www.smcpneumatics.com/VDW21-6F-1-01N.html
> 
> The picture is a 3way but the valve is only 2way. you can also change the type you want just look at the pdf guide to decipher what it means and if you want to change anything like the voltage or coil style of it.


Great information!



opticode said:


> thanks xriddler, I also want to contribute something
> 
> I found a CO2 Cylinder seller not on your list that was able to beat any prices I could find for 2.5lbs and 5lbs cylinders.
> 
> Certified Cylinder Service Inc.
> www.certifiedcylinder.ca


Do you have a price for the cylinders? I did not seem to find it on their webpage.


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## opticode

Darkblade48 said:


> Great information!
> 
> Do you have a price for the cylinders? I did not seem to find it on their webpage.


I was quoted:
2.5lbs for $70 and 5lbs for $85 but they did knock a few bucks off when I showed them one of their old Kijiji ads which listed slightly lower prices so there may be some flexibility.
Cylinders were brand new and empty.


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## Darkblade48

opticode said:


> I was quoted:
> 2.5lbs for $70 and 5lbs for $85 but they did knock a few bucks off when I showed them one of their old Kijiji ads which listed slightly lower prices so there may be some flexibility.
> Cylinders were brand new and empty.


Interesting; I purchased a 10 pound cylinder from Norwood for $75.

Perhaps there is less demand for 2.5 and 5 pound cylinders, explaining the higher price.


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## opticode

Darkblade48 said:


> Interesting; I purchased a 10 pound cylinder from Norwood for $75.
> 
> Perhaps there is less demand for 2.5 and 5 pound cylinders, explaining the higher price.


Norwood quoted me around ~$85 for 5 pound, and they don't carry 2.5 pound. The reason I kept looking was that they were out of stock and because I was really interesting in 2.5 which I could not find anywhere.


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## ame

Valuable info.

Just curious ...has anyone compared the cost/quality of buying individual units and setting up a CO2 system to buying "CO2 kits" sold by stores.

Thanks

ame


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## xriddler

Depends how impatient one gets as there are many deals on ebay just have to look really hard. Here is a basic guideline i followed. 

A used dual stage regulator should be about $100-125 (shipping included) I wouldnt go any higher for this unless the reg is brand spanking new
Metering valves $50-75 with shipping included (depends if you can find a good deal)
Solenoids $50-100 (depends if used of new)
Pipe fittings is $30-$50 (depends brass or stainless steel)
CGA-320 is $15 for brass and $30+ for Stainless or chrome plated. 
DC Adapter for the solenoid i have to check but from what i heard think it its about $20
Bubble counter is $15-20 
Co2 resistance tubing is about $3-5

When you buy a unit those are usually single stage regulators which dont prevent end of stage dump.


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## FlyingHellFish

^ Whoa, dude, you're making huge progress here.  I like that you're giving support, hahah you kept your word! Good stuff man!


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## Darkblade48

As xriddler mentioned, prices of CO2 builds can vary greatly, depending on how patient you are waiting for good deals to come along.

For comparison, I was fairly patient, and started pressurized CO2 well before it was as popular as it is today, and managed to build my entire setup, including a 10 pound CO2 cylinder, for less than $200.


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## ame

Thanks Gents
In your original post Anthony you provided details of dealers. 
Are those still current.
Thanks
ame


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## Darkblade48

ame said:


> Thanks Gents
> In your original post Anthony you provided details of dealers.
> Are those still current.
> Thanks
> ame


Yes, the contact information for those companies should be all up to date.


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## ame

Thanks everyone


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## ame

A store is quoting 250$ for a 10 lb filled cylinder and they also refill and exchange their cylinders for 50$. So I assume the cylinder is not new but part of their "pool".
The good thing I can see is they are located in Mississauga.

Does anyone know of better options.

Thanks

ame


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## Darkblade48

ame said:


> A store is quoting 250$ for a 10 lb filled cylinder and they also refill and exchange their cylinders for 50$. So I assume the cylinder is not new but part of their "pool".
> The good thing I can see is they are located in Mississauga.
> 
> Does anyone know of better options.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> ame


This is extremely expensive for a 10 pound cylinder. Have you tried contacting the stores that I listed in the first post?


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## ame

I did.

Norwood doesnt have stock of 10lb now.

But I guess I will wait.


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## opticode

ame said:


> I did.
> 
> Norwood doesnt have stock of 10lb now.
> 
> But I guess I will wait.


Try http://www.certifiedcylinder.ca they should have it in stock at a reasonable price.


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## Darkblade48

ame said:


> I did.
> 
> Norwood doesnt have stock of 10lb now.
> 
> But I guess I will wait.


Have you checked Camcarb? They are also located in Mississauga.


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## shrimpbreedershrimpeater

I just contacted Herbert Williams over in Scarborough, they sell reconditioned tanks for a reduced price. Tanks usually need to get re-checked and certified every 5 years, so their reconditioned 10lbs tank is only $75 - refill is $45. 5 lbs tank costs $50 - refill is $27.


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## Darkblade48

shrimpbreedershrimpeater said:


> I just contacted Herbert Williams over in Scarborough, they sell reconditioned tanks for a reduced price. Tanks usually need to get re-checked and certified every 5 years, so their reconditioned 10lbs tank is only $75 - refill is $45. 5 lbs tank costs $50 - refill is $27.


That's not that bad, actually.


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## shrimpbreedershrimpeater

Nope, not at all. And you get a nice big shiny red tank like this









Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


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## infolific

shrimpbreedershrimpeater said:


> 10lbs tank is only $75 - refill is $45.


Camcarb's refills cost half that amount.


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## shrimpbreedershrimpeater

Camcarbs is a bit out of my way, but good to know, thanks!

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


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## df001

Went to Sempress today, Trevor there was really helpful, with his assistance we we sorted out my regulator and fittings to get rid of the crappy clippard valve and swap to a fabco nv55-18.

Apparently fabco no longer makes the 10/32 version of the valve? or atleast its not available in canada? either way the nv55-18 is 1/8 npt. cost me about 40$

Side note -they are not equiped for cash/debit sales, so if you decide to purchase from them please bring your credit card.


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## Mikeylikes

Can carb is great for refills!

20 lb tank ... $24 bucks cash I believe I paid.


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## Darkblade48

Mikeylikes said:


> Can carb is great for refills!
> 
> 20 lb tank ... $24 bucks cash I believe I paid.


Is it that expensive now?! I could have sworn I paid less than $20 before!


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## tom g

*Holly crap*

Ure still here wow.... I have not seen u in years


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## Darkblade48

tom g said:


> Ure still here wow.... I have not seen u in years


I've been lurking, mostly 

I'm much more active over at another planted forum


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## w4x

Some updated quotes for co2 refills as of July 31, 2018. All for 10lbs tank refill.

Camcarb - $21+HST (North York)
Premium Fire Protect - $25+HST (Oshawa)
Herbert William - $45+HST (Scarborough)


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## JohnyBGood

Does anyone shoot CO2 into plastic bottles, as shown in this video?


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## Donutz

Yes. Not me, but someone I know on the forum. He says it works quite well. I'd bet you could make a fairly nice looking piece of equipment for that purpose.


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## coldmantis

That friend would be me. I have used passive co2 diffusers when I first got into co2 injection many years ago, it was the Fluval 20g kit. It came with a bell diffuser, the kit sucked so much I returned it to PJ pets the next day. I watched that video on the day it was published July 12 and I thought it was very practical for plant holding tanks and shrimp tanks, I never thought about injecting co2 "a la cart" as in not leaving a co2 tube in there and just sticking a ridgid bent acrylic tube to gas the bottle. I made a diy bottle holder and bent some acrylic tubing I had lying around on the same day I saw the video.

Here is my take on it:

Test tanks 1

20g long with a 29" nicrew led
This is a holding tank for plants, the plants varies from low light to medium light plants
Starbucks Frappuccino Glass bottle 281ml

Test tank 2

14.5g Japanese curve with a 19" nicrew led
This is a Blue Dream breeding tank, it has only low light plants.
Apple Juice 300ml plastic bottle

Both tanks has a PH of 7.6 and I can bring it down to around 7PH with the passive co2 diffuser which roughly gives me 15ppm-20ppm co2 saturation. I been experimenting with this method for almost 3 weeks now. I find for the first few days to a week all the co2 will be absord in the water column in under 24hours. After a week the bottles will last about 1.5-2 days before more co2 needs to be injected. Plant growth wise I see a increase in speed not a huge growth (1-2" per day depending on plant like my display tank) but it's growing faster then before compared to only excel dosing.

I'm happy with the results, it's easy to diy, takes about 30 seconds to fill two bottles. I tried using a 1 Liter pitcher and that was a mistake it holds too much co2 and just floats or tilts, I cannot hold it down properly. I think max bottle size will probably be around 500ml maybe a little bigger.

By no means is this method better then glass diffusers, in tank atomizers, inline atomizers, co2 reactors but it's way better then excel and of course better then not supplementing co2 at all.

This is a day one pic, I switched the bottle the next day to a Starbucks Frappuccino Glass bottle 281ml.


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