# Planted tank, how to correct stall?



## tous (Jun 22, 2017)

I've had a planted tank for a bit now, this started really simple (still is really) with a basic 90 gal tank with a few petsmart plants and random assortment of fish.

This is my tank today. Runs an FX5 with ceramic media in two trays, and floss/filter in another. Fluval fluorite and one of the dirt pellet types (like ADA amazonian, but I cant recall which) in 4/5ths ratio.










For 6-8 months my growth was insane. I ran one 48 inch aqausun zoomed LED (Not planted modules), I dosed very paradoxically with Flourish trace and flourish excel, (normal doses, but about 1/5th the frequency), and the occasional commercial root tab under my two giant amazon swords. My Amazon swords were having 5+ inch children all the time. My stocking was way way through the roof on fauna. I had what you would consider a normal maxed stocking level for a 90Gal, before the guppies, but then I had a huge school of guppies breeding in there too with nothing predating on them enough to slow them down. Guppy deaths were fairly common, often getting mostly consumed before I got to them. This was alot of fish, so this tank got fed ALOT.

My ludwiga there to the right and my waterlettuce had to get culled daily, 5-6inches of growth every few days, and buckets of water lettuce. People said I was way over stocked (I never had any symptoms that I saw, other then a bit of BBA growing on certain plants) so eventually I ditched the guppies and some odds and ends. I topped off using tap water, and did monthly water changes (with tap water).

This is the stocking now. Still fairly heavy id say, but not nearly as bad as what was there + 40~ guppies + dozens of fry (but alot of the current residents were about 1/2 their current size.
6 congos 2inch
3 rainbows 2.5inch~
2 Simese 2.5inch~
2 plecos (BN and clown)
3 dojo loach 3 inch
1 elephant nose 3 inch
some ottos (8~?) and a few gobbies, algae eaters, cant recall exact type (3~)
Few nerites, MTS, two assisins trying there best to wipe out the MTS.

In an effort to reign in the BBA, and knowing most the fish I had would get bigger, I lowered my stocking. I added a 2nd aqausun light thinking, hey more light is better, and removed my water lettuce. When I added the light I also raised the light ~ 3 inches, and lowered the photo period from ~ 10, to two 4 hour periods with a 3 hour break in the middle. I also put down the feeding to reasonable levels.

My nitrates I found became alot less manageable, getting really high very quickly (120ppm+) and I have to do ALOT of water changes to keep it down. the other affect was plant growth slowed to a halt. I stopped dosing the excel because I found a few plants were responding very negatively to it(I believe because I suck at regular dosing, and as such was shocking them every time I got around to it.) All algae growth stopped, other then very slow on the glass and on the leafs of my anubais. Those Amazons that were throwing off babies left and right havn't since.

My first try at correcting this was homemade root tabs, gel tabs full of a pellet brand, this helped my rooted plants a bit, but not the nonrooted. About this time I switched to RODI water. Very little affect after a month overall. I took everything out of the tank and massively rinsed the gravel, assuming the problem lied there. But saw no improvement.

Thinking it must be a macro missing from the water column then I tried picking up the aquavitro line (potassium, nitrogen, envy, and the fourth one escaping me at the moment) and dosing these to regime.

These didn't seem to have any real affect.

So in an effort to combat the nitrates/thinking maybe it was an excess of something, tried to readd the water lettuce, figured if I could get this stuff growing in a weed like fashion again it would combat. It seemed to burn, assuming the second light was too much, so I tried frogbit thinking it was a little more durable. It spread across the top of my tank at a decent pace, I added a circulating pump to increase flow (and make the frogbit "circle") and upped my water change cycle (this helped, stuffs growing, but not great). when I'm doing my water changes now im getting up to about 70 between changes. I tried DIY c02 a few times throughout, but never saw any real improvement.

I have an API test kit, mostly just check nitrates, but occasionally did nitrites and ammonia, never finding anything noteworthy at any point.

To give an idea of the plant volume;
2 amazon sword ~ 8 inch
Luwiga red ~4 feet of stem
Stauogene rapens (patchy patch~ 10 inch by 10 inch)
clovers (one pot)
3 Anubais 5-6 leaf
1 massive anubais nana (75 + leafs)
8-9 12 inch linderia
3-4 nice sized java fern

I would call it "medium" planted, I still see alot of gravel.

So, where did I go wrong? Alot of places I'm sure. Was there something in my new substrates that is just spent? Is it my atrocious tank maintenance? Is it cause my PH is to low?

What should I test? I've tried alot of throwing stuff at the wall, I really wanna confirm something rather then just "try" solutions.


----------



## slipfinger (May 11, 2016)

Are you able to resize your photo? The photo is so large it is outside the boundaries and I am unable to read some of your text.

I want to be able to read everything you have posted so I can give you a better answer.


----------



## tous (Jun 22, 2017)

slipfinger said:


> Are you able to resize your photo? The photo is so large it is outside the boundaries and I am unable to read some of your text.
> 
> I want to be able to read everything you have posted so I can give you a better answer.


Sorry bout that, trimmed it down a bit. Thanks.


----------



## slipfinger (May 11, 2016)

Lots of info and many changes......

Before I give a detailed answer can you provide me with;

Your current nutrient routine. What, when and how much.
Your current lighting situation and photo period.

I will say from the picture that tank looks to be healthy and doing ok.


----------



## tous (Jun 22, 2017)

The think is, it's looked like that... for like 6 months. Nothing has grown except that ludwiga and the frogbit.

I'm still on the split 4 on 3 off 4 on lighting with those two aquasuns.

I stopped dosing entirely for about a month or so now trying to "reset" so I can make changes.

i have bottles off all that aquavitro I mentioned; http://www.aquavitro.com/products/plant.html

I have envy, sythesys, carbonate and activate and I still have about a 1/2 gal of excel.

As well as a bottle of defaults "Nutrition". 
http://gtaaquaria.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1389786


----------



## default (May 28, 2011)

This is a pretty loaded thread, with lots of problems I've seen with some other members who have done co2less tanks.

My personal opinions:

- a Siesta is claimed by some people to work well, I really haven't seen it to be a game changer or effective at keeping algae at bay. It works well for certain setups and can be utilized to an advantage, but not for the purpose of controlling algae I find. I also feel 3 hours Siesta is a little long, perhaps try 1.5-2hrs instead if you'd prefer to keep the Siesta.

- reseting a tank by not dosing anything can really negatively impact the growth and condition. Remember, your fauna is supplying N and P, and with the use of RO/DI, you're basically depleted regarding K, Mg, trace, etc. A "detox" or reset period is great for high tech tanks or heavily planted tanks where fauna levels are lower - this allows for an effective utilization of all variables until near depletion.
So with a lower tech tank with decent levels of light, high organic waste producing 120ppm of N and likely high amounts of P, with minimal amounts of other nutrients = a lot of algae growth with minimal flora growth.
You should continue to dose K, Mg, and trace - plus any co2 you can, this may not be a 100% fix, but it'll give your plants a fighting chance. Remember, plants only grow as quickly as the lowest variable. I would follow the dosing for the Nutrition bottle and possibly supplement it further with some additional K.

- ultimately, I feel if there was a steady injection of co2, the tank would be much more stable and easier to maintain. Pressurized systems would really minimize some headaches.

- also, I've found that using Salvinia Minima in a nitrogen rich tank has been better than other floaters.


----------



## slipfinger (May 11, 2016)

To add further to what default has already mentioned.

You said, you added something similar to ADA Aquasoil. If it is the same make up as AS then that alone could have supplied a surge of nutrients to the tank. Over time the nutrients get depleted and the honeymoon comes to an end, meaning you have to start dosing to maintain the same growth.

I am quoting the following from a very experienced and amazing plant grower on another forum.



> If your plants are not growing properly, then you have to methodically go down the check list.
> 
> - Am I providing X, Y, Z? Light, CO2, N, P, K, Ca, Mg, Fe, other traces.
> 
> ...


I learned above the hard way and struggled for so long, but once I heeded the the above advise the hobby completely changed for me.

If you focus on the maintenance and husbandry section in bold, this alone will reduce most tank issues by 2/3rds. So many people focus on the algae. The secret is, focus on growing your plants and providing everything they need to thrive and the algae will take care of itself 95% of the time.

I agree with default 100% regarding Co2. Co2 systems are not just for tanks that run redlined all the time, meaning high levels of everything. 
You would see a big difference in the over all health of the tank by adding Co2.

Finally, use defaults fertilizer mix if you already have it. He knows a thing or two, he has some pretty sweet tanks and can grow some pretty sweet plants.


----------



## tous (Jun 22, 2017)

default said:


> So with a lower tech tank with decent levels of light, high organic waste producing 120ppm of N and likely high amounts of P, with minimal amounts of other nutrients = a lot of algae growth with minimal flora growth.


See; this is part of what bothers me about this tank currently. From everything I've ever known, my tank should be an an algae NIGHTMARE right now. Like you said, my N and P are probably through the roof, and despite the light siesta, the tank is also has a fair bit of sunlight pouring in from patio door the whole time the sun is up (not direct direct light, but still a fair bit) but I get none.

Perhaps my algae cleanup crew is doing such a good job I don't notice? 2 Pleco + 2 Siemse + 5-6 Nerites + bamboo shrimp and 1-2 amanos?

I have found a local supplier of Metricide 14 though - I was thinking about setting up a drip system for stability if I can get something slow enough to work. My plants that took exception to this have all long since been removed.

I agree about the salvina; I'm slowing porting it over from my small shrimp tank (Thats where the glosso + RRF you told me went are doing great) and phasing out the frogbit. Because of the high circulation in the tank I find the frogbit gets a little beat up looking (and blocks alot of light) anyways.

So takeaways; Try C02 again(excel for now, pressurized maybe in the future), dose with Nutrient for now; adding K (this I have in the form of carbonate from aquavitro), Remove/lower Siesta. Drop the frogbit.


----------

