# dwarf frogs banned from Markham



## bluberrymuffin (May 7, 2011)

http://www.yorkregion.com/news/article/1383350--salmonella-risk-leads-markham-to-ban-pet-frogs

...mixed feelings


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## RevoBuda (Sep 3, 2011)

I think the first f'ing problem is that they are selling live animals billed as toys. This is another example of legislating stupid. Instead of allowing the world to eliminate people through social darwanism, we get stuck with them because we bubble wrap them and their idiot children. So sad.


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## Ciddian (Mar 15, 2006)

it seems like the issue was with the product? The kids had been getting sick by touching the water. Probably foul water which isnt changed and is in perfect reach for a child. If they banned the product instead of the frog...

Frankly all reptiles will be banned because of this bylaw. Some good points to that, but still sucks all around for a responsible pet owner.


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## trailblazer295 (Mar 7, 2010)

Imagine that conversation one day "What are you in for?" "I had a dwarf frog."

You can't fix stupid, we just try and protect them from themselves. Does nobody wash their hands after feeding fish, cleaning their aquarium or what about petting a fuzzy animal?


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## Sunstar (Jul 29, 2008)

get salmonella from ill prepared/cleaned chicken or cutting surfaces. ban KFC and chicken in supermarkets.

maybe even eggs. I got violently ill from that as a kid.


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## trailblazer295 (Mar 7, 2010)

Sunstar said:


> get salmonella from ill prepared/cleaned chicken or cutting surfaces. ban KFC and chicken in supermarkets.
> 
> maybe even eggs. I got violently ill from that as a kid.


What am I supposed to eat for dinner? I'll fight the power.

It is stupid that because some parents aren't smart enough to make sure kids wash their hands after that everyone else suffers.

Their are so many things that can make you sick if you don't wash it off your skin, I ate eggs for breakfast and chicken for dinner. I may not be here tomorrow.


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## Bantario (Apr 10, 2011)

This province leads the way in BULLSHIT bans
BAN this and BAN that, so it makes a useless politician look like they have actually acomplished something...

Its where I got my BANtario name from!!!


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## Sunstar (Jul 29, 2008)

trailblazer295 said:


> What am I supposed to eat for dinner? I'll fight the power.
> 
> It is stupid that because some parents aren't smart enough to make sure kids wash their hands after that everyone else suffers.
> 
> Their are so many things that can make you sick if you don't wash it off your skin, I ate eggs for breakfast and chicken for dinner. I may not be here tomorrow.


Yep, I ewas telling my husband. If I handle my frog, I wash my hands. I handlechicken, I can't wash my hands and equipment enough. I use the loo, I scrub the hell out of my hands.


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## characinfan (Dec 24, 2008)

trailblazer295 said:


> What am I supposed to eat for dinner?


The frog.

(Kidding)


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## trailblazer295 (Mar 7, 2010)

Well I lived on the edge and had chicken for dinner and even after preparing it. I managed to beat the odds and survive and not go to the hospital. I should sell my tactics, I'd be rich.


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## WiyRay (Jan 11, 2009)

I licked the ground and got sick... I demand that all ground be immediately removed and banned.


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## pat3612 (Jan 29, 2008)

There is the answer there kids are protected too much , go to the beach wash your hands play in the dirt wash your hands do anything wash your hands. Yea after handling animals you should wash your hands but there is no immune system anymore build into kids . When I was a kid we play with frogs, put worms on our hooks picked up snakes and snail whatever and never got sick. I still put my hands in the tank pat my dogs pick snails with my grandchildren, even pick up the odd snake. I dont run to wash my hands but thats just my opinion.


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## Ryan.Wilton (Dec 12, 2012)

Sucks to be you Government. I'll buy them in Richmond Hill


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## irminia (Dec 10, 2011)

I've never been a fan of keeping these frogs myself, but all it takes is the ignorance and irresponsibility of a few owners to ruin it for everybody. I'd completely understand banning the sale of those "kits" marketed as kids' toys in toyshops, but to ban the keeping of the frog outright is ridiculous. I worked at an aquarium livestock wholesaler where I've handled hundreds of these frogs everyday and not once did I get sick.



bluberrymuffin said:


> http://www.yorkregion.com/news/article/1383350--salmonella-risk-leads-markham-to-ban-pet-frogs
> 
> ...mixed feelings


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## Ryan.Wilton (Dec 12, 2012)

Well it's the same idealism that surrounds baby turtles. If the creature was kept in poor conditions then yes, it would obviously be a greater risk of developing some sort of disease. My turtles haven't made me sick yet and I've had them for about 3 years now.


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## Ryan.Wilton (Dec 12, 2012)

These were on special at BA's north york this weekend lol


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## MDR (Feb 20, 2012)

I was doing a little write up for my adv. nutrition course a few months ago that can relate to this. In a nutshell various studies link a lack of early childhood exposure to environmental stimuli (i.e. allergy inducing substances/bacteria) to more severe allergic reactions later in life.

When you bubble wrap the world and not allow your child to lick a frog or two, you put them at risk 

An article summarizing the research findings without making your mind explode: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/09/070905174501.htm


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## Ryan.Wilton (Dec 12, 2012)

lol. Sounds more like Behavioural Health Sciences to me... Same thing my fiance's in lol


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## MDR (Feb 20, 2012)

Ryan.Wilton said:


> lol. Sounds more like Behavioural Health Sciences to me... Same thing my fiance's in lol


I assure you it was nutrition, I was looking at the relationship between early childhood exposure to allergy inducing foods and the Hygiene Hypothesis was an explanation I reported on.

The Hygiene Hypothesis does fit in with other health related fields.


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

Try looking up the 'dirt vaccine'. I am not kidding.. look it up. Theory is asthma rates are so high because our immune systems were meant to develop in a symbiotic way with organisms in soil. Native soil.. not the stuff you buy in bags. Without exposure to the organisms from infancy the immune system does not develop to it's full potential.

+1 for letting kids get dirty ! Total hygiene is not necessarily the way to health. But I have also had salmonella, and I was desperately sick for a week. I would take sensible precautions with anything known to carry the bug. 

I make my own cat's food from raw meat and feed it raw. Vet told me we'd all get salmonella and not to do it. But one of my girls was always throwing up any canned or dry food, so I had to try something more in keeping with their nature as obligate carnivores. 

Neither I nor the cats have suffered salmonella and the cat who threw up is thriving, along with her litter sister. My vet had to admit after the last checkup, that my two cats are about the healthiest senior felines she has ever seen, with perfect blood work values, so whatever I'm feeding them must be good. Can't imagine what it cost her to tell me that.. nice to hear though.

Pretty soon they'll ban breathing because the air is so polluted and IT is making us sick. That will be that, we'll all be gone.


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## MDR (Feb 20, 2012)

Fishfur said:


> Try looking up the 'dirt vaccine'. I am not kidding.. look it up. Theory is asthma rates are so high because our immune systems were meant to develop in a symbiotic way with organisms in soil. Native soil.. not the stuff you buy in bags. Without exposure to the organisms from infancy the immune system does not develop to it's full potential.


I took a peek at that, watched the video about it as well. I entirely agree.


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## SwimmyD (Feb 9, 2013)

*Bacteria and allergies!*

This thread has taken a fun turn! I love talking about germs!

Immunity is a complex thing, and we have two sides of the same coin here. One relates to our immunity to bacteria as a way of fighting infection, and the other is the immune system attacking things that it shouldn't (allergies, asthma). Both have drastically changed in humans over the last 150 years, because of the way we have progressed in society. Before advancements in hygiene (think sewage systems), medical care, and vaccines, people regularly died from infections and infectious diseases - especially in densely populated areas. If you cut yourself and got tetanus (a bacteria that lives in dirt) well then it was all over for you. And if you had bad asthma, well you just died young. A kind of natural selection against allergic diseases, and a survival of the fittest against the bacteria surrounding us and infecting us. It certainly wasn't rosy. Humans had much shorter life expectancies.

Fast forward a hundred years and we try to keep ultra clean environments with antibacterial soap and do our best to keep outside elements from coming "inside" ie dirt, germs, and farm animals (lol) - at least in the "developed western world". Fortunately we invented soap and sanitation systems, and our mortality rates plummeted. But we are no longer mingling with the good and bad bacteria that evolved alongside us in our huts. In fact, our advanced medical care and overuse of antibiotics have led to a host of "super bacteria" that cannot be killed by antibiotics that used to work on them. Even simple ear infections can't be treated with antibiotics that were used only 20 years ago. And then our bodies end up weirdly defending themselves using our immune system against non-lethal particles (like pollen and dust and cat dander), which is the basis of allergies.

To top it all off, we create pollution and smog with automobiles and factories, we use spray chemicals for everything around the house, and have chemicals like fire retardants leaching from our upholstery, carpets etc. Then we go even further and add chemicals to our food so that it can have an indefinite shelf life. And we develop new sensitivities to them. All we have done in the last 150 years is replace old problems with new problems, and sadly there is no easy or quick fix! The developing world has less allergies and asthma, but higher mortality rates from infections and infectious disease!

Oh ya, and banning pet frogs is not the answer. All responsible pet owners know the answer to that one. Always keep froggy in clean water and wash your hands after you handle him! And don't make him live in a 5 inch cube! I see these cubes in the local toy store all the time. Poor frogs!


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## Ryan.Wilton (Dec 12, 2012)

The same principle applies to Behavioural health science, a child whos isolated will not develop at the same rate as others. Immune diseases are part of this, hell when I was a kid I'd eat candy off the floor at Hockey Arenas, I'd eat dirt, i ate bugs, grass, leaves and more. If I could put it in my mouth, I probably tried it back then. As a result I have a pretty good immune system, but your food intake also has a stance here.

The main point is that parents shouldn't be letting their kids eat raw frog legs


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## boxboy (Jun 11, 2012)

+1 for letting kids get dirty ! Total hygiene is not necessarily the way to health. But I have also had salmonella, and I was desperately sick for a week. I would take sensible precautions with anything known to carry the bug.

I make my own cat's food from raw meat and feed it raw. Vet told me we'd all get salmonella and not to do it. But one of my girls was always throwing up any canned or dry food, so I had to try something more in keeping with their nature as obligate carnivores.

Neither I nor the cats have suffered salmonella and the cat who threw up is thriving, along with her litter sister. My vet had to admit after the last checkup, that my two cats are about the healthiest senior felines she has ever seen, with perfect blood work values, so whatever I'm feeding them must be good. Can't imagine what it cost her to tell me that.. nice to hear though.

Pretty soon they'll ban breathing because the air is so polluted and IT is making us sick. That will be that, we'll all be gone.[/QUOTE]

+100% Your Awsome! We must protect the stupid people from themselfs! Kids get dirty yup, but lets be reasonable and washing your hands will help in most cases of having anything harmful on you. But for the love of life, Dont be licken your hands after you have played with your repitles, aquariums, dog poop ect. It really seems that common sence is no longer common!


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## SwimmyD (Feb 9, 2013)

*Homage to the banned Dwarf African Frog*

Was at the lfs yesterday and saw this. Made me laugh as I watched him enjoy his lunch.


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## MDR (Feb 20, 2012)

boxboy said:


> It really seems that common sense is no longer common!


My solution to this problem.... 

http://weknowmemes.com/2012/05/im-not-saying-lets-go-kill-all-the-stupid-people/


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## Ryan.Wilton (Dec 12, 2012)

SwimmyD said:


> Was at the lfs yesterday and saw this. Made me laugh as I watched him enjoy his lunch.


Swimmy, those are clawed frogs so you know


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## Bwhiskered (Oct 2, 2008)

There is as much salmonella in some peoples fish tanks. Next they will want to ban fish. How can they enforce it? It's not like some thing that is out in the open to see like a pit bull.


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## Ryan.Wilton (Dec 12, 2012)

I would highly doubt you have salmonella in your fish tank, otherwise more than half of the hobbyists would be sick due to a mouth full of fish water.

It's a stupid law, put in place because of peoples stupidity. Basically the government is trying to protect families against themselves.

I still say travel 10 minutes away to Richmond Hill or North York and get your dwarf frogs.


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