# used flourite?



## mamadoo (Aug 27, 2008)

Is it just as good, or should I spend the $$ and buy new?


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Depends on how old and how much growth came out. Some people replace it every year. Others, never. I am part of the latter camp. But if you had aggressive growth (High tech set up), then it would probably be worth checking out.


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## mamadoo (Aug 27, 2008)

It's going to be a low tech tank (mine), but I just found some on Craigslist and it's under 1/2 the cost of new. Just not sure if there's something in the flourite that depletes? Or should I go eco-complete? All these choices!!
Sorry!


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

IMO eco complete looks better. I have both in my tanks, and I like the eco-complete tanks look more. up to you though. I find ecocomplete is much more round, where as flourite tends to look more like gravel.


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## mamadoo (Aug 27, 2008)

Does it make a difference for growth? Or just looks? I read somewhere that the eco comes with good bacteria whereas the flourite is just plain?
I really want to do this right the first time, as I don't want to tear it apart and do again, don't have the $$ for that!
(And, this is my tester. If I absolutely love it, this time next year it will be a bigger more high tech setup, so the better this turns out, the more likely I will keep going)


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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

Old flourite on a new tank doesn't give you much. The reason why some people's tank with flourite keep going is because it's an establish tank with a balance fish fertilizers decaying within the flourite.
This is kind of hard to explain as many people will get away with second hand flourite. This is because flourite itself still have a very good 'caption? ' ratio (can't seem remember how that should be spelled). So it will take 1 or 2 months for 2nd hand flourite to get extablished (or cycled). This just means your plants will be slow in establishting a good and healthy root system, because it takes a while for the decaying cycle to kick in to provide nutrients. Then there's the algae you may need to deal with. Old gravel will get you into algae issues withing weeks of planting your plants. (If you are going with a high end setup)

Brand new flourite/eco-complete and many other aquatic soil comes will ferts within the soil. So a newly planted plant will grow much quickly and develope a healthier root system. This will help the plant fight off any algae problem what will eventually sets in as with most new planted tanks. 
I can't explain this, but 3 or 6 months after you start a planted tank. Algae just jumps in from no where and you find your self struggling with algae problems. This is what turned most people away from the planted tank hobby. There are very few people who gets away with it. Or should I say very few tanks that gets away with it.

Rooted carpet plant benefit the most from new gravel/soil. Ricca are not affected regardless if it's new or old.

Ofcourse all these doesn't means much if you are planting mostly stem plant as most people pull out the roots and cut the top to replant them every couple of months anyway.

If you have a chance, look into the ADA products, they are far more advance and sofisticated than we are. There are some powder fert you add to a new tank that helps develope the roots system. The gravel itself is man made and have 2 or three different layers. They are not harvest from some field like eco-complete or flourite. They also have several kind of fert that you dose in stages. You use different fert at the 3rd month, 6th month and 12th+ month. All with different amounts of nutrients to help your plant propertly grow within different stages as your tank develope. This is because your plant requirements changes as it grows and you have to keep up with the changes. Otherwise, you get into algae issue.
Anyway, long post I'll stop here....

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## mamadoo (Aug 27, 2008)

Ok, so what I got from your post is that I'm further ahead to get new. I will take that advice.
What are ADA products? I googled it and came up blank.
When the algae sets in, is that a good time to add a few shrimp? Or is it a different kind of algae?
Thank you, and I like long posts, the more info that I can get before I get setup the better (hence all the questions that probably make peoples eyes roll).


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## hojimoe (Mar 7, 2008)

in my opinion I don't think it matters, used/new whatever

I have eco and flourite mixed into my main tank and I like it

I'm pretty sure flourite doesn't loose it's nutrition- according to the bag

I noticed a HUGE jump in growth after about 2 weeks


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## js97 (Jun 11, 2008)

Flourite is a rock that contains iron that doesn't leach into the water system. It's only extracted by roots. FLourite doesn't really come with any sort of 'fertilizers' etc. I'm not sure about eco complete, as it may come with fertilizers etc. 

used flourite would be as fine as new. Think of it as limestone. It will continue to leach nutrients until the stone erodes complete.


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

js97 said:


> Flourite is a rock that contains iron that doesn't leach into the water system. It's only extracted by roots. FLourite doesn't really come with any sort of 'fertilizers' etc. I'm not sure about eco complete, as it may come with fertilizers etc.
> 
> used flourite would be as fine as new. Think of it as limestone. It will continue to leach nutrients until the stone erodes complete.


This is mostly correct. Flourite is essentially small pieces of clay which contain tons of nutrients, like iron, potassium, magnesium and aluminum. Due to the nature of it, it will provide nutrients for a looong time (I'd take a guess and say likely 6-10 years), but not (as stated) until it erodes. The main helpful ingredient is ferric iron, which the plant roots will extract slowly, along with many of the other micronutrients.

Much like every other naturally occurring substance (flourite is mined), it will eventually lose its nutrients - but only to use via plant roots (and similar processes), as it does not leach these nutrients into the water column.

All in all, unless that flourite is like 8 years old, I'm sure it is just as good as buying a brand new bag of it.


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

mamadoo said:


> What are ADA products? I googled it and came up blank.


Just for the sake of being through, ADA products, or Aqua Design Amano, are products from the ADA company, originally founded by Takashi Amano, a Japanese aquarist.

From what I've heard, their products are quite good, but expensive, especially if you live in North America. I'm actually living in Japan right now, about 2 hours away from Niigata, where the ADA headquarters actually is; I'm still not sure if I should start up a nano tank while I'm here


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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

Since you're new to this. New flourite is better than old. Unless you are up for a challenge. Think of aquatic soil just like a battery. They are best when first used. As time goes by, you lose that peek performance. I don't know when it looses it properties, but people with a high tech setup and those who compete in the AGA contest changes their soil every year as ameekplec said. 
Personally, I will likely use mine forever, as I know that the food and poop from the fish will offer enough decay to keep an establish tank going. But I am sure you won't get that first use peek with old soil though.

As for the ADA stuff:
Soil
Fertilizers

Unless I have too much money and no where to spend. The soil is out of my budget. But the fert are still within my very high end range of things. One day I hope to order some of the stuff. But right now, I am on PMDD.

I forgot to answer another one of your question. Eco-complete is slightly better than flourite. You don't need to rinse it that much and <delete>it lowers your pH to around 6.5 - 7 </delete>. Which is an ideal pH range for most underwater plants. Flourite does not alter you pH. So it's good for fish that lives at a higher pH. This ofcourse is base on the fact that you aren't going CO2 yet. When you go CO2, your water's pH will be lower regardless if it's Flourite or Eco-complete.

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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

I'm not sure where you are basing the idea that eco-complete lowers your pH level (I've never heard anyone say that before). 

In my experience it does absolutely nothing to alter your pH (and the product is designed to NOT effect your pH at all), however there were some reports of older eco-complete having some serious Phosphate problems, which Caribsea has remedied to my knowledge. This had the effect of raising the pH though, not lowering it.


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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

Hmm, in that case, then I better take that back. I did a search on the internet and but can't seem to find any references which is really weird. 
However, I didn't have lots of discussion with other people who grows shirmps who vouch for eco-complete as better choice of susbstrate as it lowers the pH to the around 6.5 - 7, which is perfect for the crystal shrimps.
Hmm, I'll keep looking, maybe I might be able to find some of those links.

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## mamadoo (Aug 27, 2008)

Think I'm going to go with new eco complete. Mainly because I'm new, and it is a 20lb bag which should be enough to do my tank with one bag. The flourite is only a 15lb bag.
I would love any advice on the best ways to do things, doesn't have to be from an article or anything, experience is great! 
When can I add shrimp and fish? (Will have tank full of cycled water/used media on the weekend, plants in early next week)


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

mamadoo said:


> Think I'm going to go with new eco complete. Mainly because I'm new, and it is a 20lb bag which should be enough to do my tank with one bag. The flourite is only a 15lb bag.


Keep in mind that the weight of the Eco-Complete bag includes water, as some water is also packaged into the Eco-Complete bags.


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