# Shrimps keep dying with flourite black substrate



## alexxa

i have around 30 cherry shrimps at the beginning, and they keep dying 
i have been using flourite black for 4 months and ph gh kh nh4 no3 no2 are fine.
does anyone have the same problem as me?


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## Rmwbrown

There is copper in flourite, however, I'm not sure if it will leach into the tank. Perhaps if you didn't wash it, it was leaching and you had a low plant load?


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## alexxa

Rmwbrown said:


> There is copper in flourite, however, I'm not sure if it will leach into the tank. Perhaps if you didn't wash it, it was leaching and you had a low plant load?


i washed it before using and i hv been using it for 4months
here is my tank


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## solarz

how many of your shrimps are dying? I have experienced unexplained shrimp deaths before, and I could only chalk it up to "natural causes".


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## alexxa

solarz said:


> how many of your shrimps are dying? I have experienced unexplained shrimp deaths before, and I could only chalk it up to "natural causes".


i had 30 and now only 7 left
wt do u mean by natural causes?


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## solarz

alexxa said:


> i had 30 and now only 7 left
> wt do u mean by natural causes?


okay, that is a lot. What I meant was that I had the odd shrimp die once every month or so. I also use flourite black.

Are you overfeeding or underfeeding perhaps? Are the shrimps by themselves or are there fishes in there with them?

Finally, are you *sure* your shrimp are dead? Did you pick out 23 shrimp carcasses, or do you only see 7 shrimps around? Shrimps are very good hiders.


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## arc

Have any of them had eggs?

If not, something is stressing them which could be killing them as well.


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## Darkblade48

I agree that your substrate is not likely the cause of your shrimp deaths. I have used normal Flourite and Flourite Black (sand), and both are fine for shrimp.

Small amounts of copper will not kill shrimp. The dose makes the poison.

I would take a look at other possible suspects (i.e. ammonia, nitrite, nitrate). What are the exact values? "Fine" is very vague.

Also, as mentioned, are there other fish living in the aquarium with the shrimp?


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## dp12345

what is ur temp.
It should be around 23 c.
When did u notice ur shrimps molted.
read this i give these to my cherries every w/c:
http://www.shrimpfanatic.com/2009/05/homemade-calcium-buffer.html

hope for the best.
dp


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## alexxa

arc said:


> Have any of them had eggs?
> 
> If not, something is stressing them which could be killing them as well.


i saw once
but the eggs disappeared


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## alexxa

solarz said:


> okay, that is a lot. What I meant was that I had the odd shrimp die once every month or so. I also use flourite black.
> 
> Are you overfeeding or underfeeding perhaps? Are the shrimps by themselves or are there fishes in there with them?
> 
> Finally, are you *sure* your shrimp are dead? Did you pick out 23 shrimp carcasses, or do you only see 7 shrimps around? Shrimps are very good hiders.


i feed them every few days (2 to 3 pellet each time)
there are only cherry shrimps in the tank

i am sure they are dead because i just took out the remaining 7 shrimps to another tank and there is none left


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## alexxa

Darkblade48 said:


> I agree that your substrate is not likely the cause of your shrimp deaths. I have used normal Flourite and Flourite Black (sand), and both are fine for shrimp.
> 
> Small amounts of copper will not kill shrimp. The dose makes the poison.
> 
> I would take a look at other possible suspects (i.e. ammonia, nitrite, nitrate). What are the exact values? "Fine" is very vague.
> 
> Also, as mentioned, are there other fish living in the aquarium with the shrimp?


i measured them in petsmart
nh4 0
ph 6.8
alcanity 80
nitrate 0
nitrite 0
hardness 75
cl2 0


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## alexxa

dp12345 said:


> what is ur temp.
> It should be around 23 c.
> When did u notice ur shrimps molted.
> read this i give these to my cherries every w/c:
> http://www.shrimpfanatic.com/2009/05/homemade-calcium-buffer.html
> 
> hope for the best.
> dp


its around 20-22C


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## Zebrapl3co

All looks fine with me. Do you dose fertz?

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## solarz

alexxa said:


> i measured them in petsmart
> nh4 0
> ph 6.8
> alcanity 80
> nitrate 0
> nitrite 0
> hardness 75
> cl2 0


You need your own test kit. Petsmart uses strips, and they're not very accurate.

Do you inject CO2? If not, a pH of 6.8 is abnormally low for toronto tap water. You probably have something going on there.

It's also possible that your tank has some kind of shrimp disease or parasite.


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## alexxa

solarz said:


> You need your own test kit. Petsmart uses strips, and they're not very accurate.
> 
> Do you inject CO2? If not, a pH of 6.8 is abnormally low for toronto tap water. You probably have something going on there.
> 
> It's also possible that your tank has some kind of shrimp disease or parasite.


i dun hv co2
i use my own api ph liquid testkit and its around 7.4-7.6


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## alexxa

Zebrapl3co said:


> All looks fine with me. Do you dose fertz?


fertilizer? no


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## solarz

alexxa said:


> i dun hv co2
> i use my own api ph liquid testkit and its around 7.4-7.6


See, that's why you shouldn't trust those petsmart readings. Big difference between a pH of 6.8 and 7.4!

Did you verify your ammonia/nitrite/nitrate readings with your own kit? What were the results?


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## bettaforu

Try doing a 50/50 water change and just put in water conditioner nothing else...also is that a lava rock in there? Lava rocks make PH go up! Your PH may be too high for them. I am not familiar with flourite, but I think it is more for planted tanks than shrimp friendly. Might want to think about changing out the soil to Fluval stratum for shrimps.

Sorry they are dying on you but shrimps do die off if they are too old...no way to tell that either.


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## igor.kanshyn

As Anna wrote, big water changes should help.

Cherry shrimps are relatively undemanding, they can live in any water conditions.
Don't worry about your pH, use a tap water after a water conditioner. It will be fine.

Fluorite substrate is harmless for shrimps. It has a very little amount of cooper, it's not a problem.
I use it for about 9 month in the shrimp cube. Fluorite should not be a problem.

PetSmart water measurements don't look realistic for Toronto water.
GH and PH should be higher. It's almost impossible to get nitrates to zero 

I don't see what's really wrong with your set.
It looks nice, but there is no hiding places for shrimp. It's not a real problem, but get some mosses or other plants. It might help.

They might starving in your tank. How do they eat? Do they go crazy when you feed them?

What filter is there and what size of the tank.
One of the possibilities that it's might not cycled completely. It's hard to keep in order small tanks.

Get your own test kits. They are useful things


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## alexxa

solarz said:


> See, that's why you shouldn't trust those petsmart readings. Big difference between a pH of 6.8 and 7.4!
> 
> Did you verify your ammonia/nitrite/nitrate readings with your own kit? What were the results?


coz i dont hv the other kits so i hv to go petsmart and check


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## alexxa

igor.kanshyn said:


> As Anna wrote, big water changes should help.
> 
> Cherry shrimps are relatively undemanding, they can live in any water conditions.
> Don't worry about your pH, use a tap water after a water conditioner. It will be fine.
> 
> Fluorite substrate is harmless for shrimps. It has a very little amount of cooper, it's not a problem.
> I use it for about 9 month in the shrimp cube. Fluorite should not be a problem.
> 
> PetSmart water measurements don't look realistic for Toronto water.
> GH and PH should be higher. It's almost impossible to get nitrates to zero
> 
> I don't see what's really wrong with your set.
> It looks nice, but there is no hiding places for shrimp. It's not a real problem, but get some mosses or other plants. It might help.
> 
> They might starving in your tank. How do they eat? Do they go crazy when you feed them?
> 
> What filter is there and what size of the tank.
> One of the possibilities that it's might not cycled completely. It's hard to keep in order small tanks.
> 
> Get your own test kits. They are useful things


wt type of water conditioner would u suggest?
i think food isn't a problem because i feed them every few days/ 3-4times per week

i have bio rings and cotton in my filter


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## alexxa

bettaforu said:


> Try doing a 50/50 water change and just put in water conditioner nothing else...also is that a lava rock in there? Lava rocks make PH go up! Your PH may be too high for them. I am not familiar with flourite, but I think it is more for planted tanks than shrimp friendly. Might want to think about changing out the soil to Fluval stratum for shrimps.
> 
> Sorry they are dying on you but shrimps do die off if they are too old...no way to tell that either.


isn't lava rock inert?
i think i will try fluval


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## alexxa

also where is the cheapest place to get nh4 gh and no3 testkit?
and i am using soft water, would that be a problem?


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## arc

> and i am using soft water, would that be a problem?


What do you mean by "using soft water"? Is you house water connected to a water softener or you using a water softener to filter you water before water changes?

Info from website
"Typical home water softeners soften water using a technique known as "ion exchange''. That is, they remove calcium and magnesium ions by replacing them with sodium ions. Although this does technically make water softer, most fish won't notice the difference. That is, fish that prefer soft water don't like sodium either, and for them such water softeners don't help at all. Thus, home water softeners are not an appropriate way to soften water for aquarium use. "

http://fins.actwin.com/mirror/begin-chem.html

Shrimp are more sensitive and will have more issues.


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## alexxa

arc said:


> What do you mean by "using soft water"? Is you house water connected to a water softener or you using a water softener to filter you water before water changes?
> 
> Info from website
> "Typical home water softeners soften water using a technique known as "ion exchange''. That is, they remove calcium and magnesium ions by replacing them with sodium ions. Although this does technically make water softer, most fish won't notice the difference. That is, fish that prefer soft water don't like sodium either, and for them such water softeners don't help at all. Thus, home water softeners are not an appropriate way to soften water for aquarium use. "
> 
> http://fins.actwin.com/mirror/begin-chem.html
> 
> Shrimp are more sensitive and will have more issues.


ya my house water is connect to a water softener
so should i add water conditioner to fix this problem
coz i cant get any "hard water" (water that has ca and mg)


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## igor.kanshyn

alexxa said:


> ya my house water is connect to a water softener
> so should i add water conditioner to fix this problem
> coz i cant get any "hard water" (water that has ca and mg)


Ah, it explains your low GH/KH and PH 

Try to get some 'KIO clay', 'shrimps mineral powder', 'mineral rocks' or some 'turtle calcium'. That stuff should add some calcium and other useful minerals. Shrimps will be able to easily grow their new shells and molt.

Ordinary water conditioner will not modify your water.
The most popular water conditioner here is Prime: http://www.bigalsonline.ca/Fish_Additives_Water-Conditioners_Prime_8059393_102.html?tc=default

However, there are some special water conditioners/addictive that increase hardness of water. Like this one, for instance, http://www.bigalsonline.ca/Fish_Add...ichlid-Mineral-Salts_9778689_102.html?tc=fish


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## arc

Is there anyway source that isn't connected to the water softener? It maybe a lot simpler to use normal tap water then to re-mineralize it. Also you still have the issues of sodium ions floating in there if you use the softener.


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## ShrimpieLove

Fluval Ebi makes mineral supplement/ gh increaser for shrimps


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## alexxa

igor.kanshyn said:


> Ah, it explains your low GH/KH and PH
> 
> Try to get some 'KIO clay', 'shrimps mineral powder', 'mineral rocks' or some 'turtle calcium'. That stuff should add some calcium and other useful minerals. Shrimps will be able to easily grow their new shells and molt.
> 
> Ordinary water conditioner will not modify your water.
> The most popular water conditioner here is Prime: http://www.bigalsonline.ca/Fish_Additives_Water-Conditioners_Prime_8059393_102.html?tc=default
> 
> However, there are some special water conditioners/addictive that increase hardness of water. Like this one, for instance, http://www.bigalsonline.ca/Fish_Add...ichlid-Mineral-Salts_9778689_102.html?tc=fish


so the cichlid mineral salt will help?
http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2753904&keepsr=0&clickid=prod_cs
and do i have to get fluval stratum?


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## alexxa

arc said:


> Is there anyway source that isn't connected to the water softener? It maybe a lot simpler to use normal tap water then to re-mineralize it. Also you still have the issues of sodium ions floating in there if you use the softener.


i dont think so
all the taps are soft water
or i can use purified water and then add minerals in it


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## alexxa

i just found one that is for reverse osmosis
http://www.bigalsonline.ca/Fish_Additives_Freshwater-Additives_Replenish_8179713_102.html?tc=fish
http://www.bigalsonline.ca/Fish_Add...llers_Equilibrium_8058113_102.html?tc=default
should i use the replenish or the equlibrium?


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## alexxa

i just checked the gh and kh
gh is 2dgh but kh is higher than 6(i didn't want to waste any more drops)
i am using api tester
gh is low but kh is high
should i do 50% wc?


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## alexxa

i think i should try to use purified water and add mineral supplement in it
coz i just check its ph is 6.4-6.8


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