# chlorine of chloramine in scarborough tap water?



## duckyser

anyone know?


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## Zebrapl3co

Always assume it's chloramine. Even if you detect chlorine only, you don't know when they will flush the pipe with chloramine to clear up the pipes.

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## ohmyfish

Either way, it tastes fine to me!


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## acropora1981

Most of Southern Ontario is now Chloramine.

I use AquaFX Chloramine Blaster for my water. Its a carbon prefilter.


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## Merman

I think our water is really good - I don't think there's too much of either in our water. I do water changes (25-40%) with tepid tap water, have for years and never have a problem.


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## gucci17

I would still treat your water with some form of dechlorinator. It doesn't even cost much when you work it out. Why risk it?


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## duckyser

I do, its just that in the past i have been dosing only for chlorine then i read somewhere toronto uses chloramine. I felt terrible (might have been torturing my fish) and so i posted here to find out. Ever since i read about it i have been dosing for chloramine just to be safe.


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## Sagittarius-Aquarius

Even if you can't detect it, always dose the greater dose of water conditioner. I think it's the amount to eliminate chloramine. You wouldn't necessarily know if chlorine was harming your fish, because it's not present in large enough doses to make them die instantly. Someone I knew last year just dumped pitchers of cold tap water in for water changes... she had so much black algae and recycling, but she didn't know anything about tanks and wouldn't hear it from me. My understanding is that it harms the fish internally and shortens their life span, that it can damage their respiratory systems. So always condition, even if it seems okay without conditioner. For the record, none of her fish reached their full life span. They didn't live more than half a year at most.


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## duckyser

i usually put the water in a large plastic container with conditioner and then put an internal filter inside letting it run for 30 minutes, before pumping it into my tanks. This is long enough to neutralize anything dangerous in the water?


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## Darkblade48

duckyser said:


> i usually put the water in a large plastic container with conditioner and then put an internal filter inside letting it run for 30 minutes, before pumping it into my tanks. This is long enough to neutralize anything dangerous in the water?


I don't even bother with putting the water into a plastic container with an internal filter.

However, what you are doing isn't wrong


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## BillD

I age my water for 20 feet; the length of the hose.


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## gucci17

I age my water in a 50 gallon barrel and treat it with Prime.


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## Sagittarius-Aquarius

I'd say you're taking a reasonable precaution. If you'd like to be extra sure, wait a day. However, keep in mind tap water has chemicals in it to keep the chlorine from evaporating so you'll still need to condition it.


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## Zebrapl3co

Merman said:


> I think our water is really good - I don't think there's too much of either in our water. I do water changes (25-40%) with tepid tap water, have for years and never have a problem.


Have you even bother to test your water?
It's really concerning. Either you're drinking Walkerton water every day or you've been touturing your fish all these times.



duckyser said:


> i usually put the water in a large plastic container with conditioner and then put an internal filter inside letting it run for 30 minutes, before pumping it into my tanks. This is long enough to neutralize anything dangerous in the water?


I would recommend that you skip the internal filter. That logic was used back in the days when there is only chlorine in the water. What the internal filter would do is speed up the aeration and therefor allow the chlorine to dissipate faster. Another more popular and cheaper method would have been an air stone.
But since you already conditioned the water. The internal filter won't be necessary.

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## duckyser

i'm just using the filter to mix the water and conditioner thoroughly


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## carmenh

I just wrote the Halton water folks today to see if this is the case in Burlington. I'm using RO, not RO/DI, and if it has chloramines I'm gonna have to start using conditioner again :-( 
A couple of years ago when I checked, I go an emphatic no to the chloramine question...



acropora1981 said:


> Most of Southern Ontario is now Chloramine.
> 
> I use AquaFX Chloramine Blaster for my water. Its a carbon prefilter.


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## qwerty

On the plus side it's darn near impossible to overdose on water conditioners, and they seem to be rather fast-acting


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## carmenh

I got my answer back. Burlington does NOT use chloramines, either in regular processing or for flushing, and has no plans to change at this this point...
Yay!



carmenh said:


> I just wrote the Halton water folks today to see if this is the case in Burlington. I'm using RO, not RO/DI, and if it has chloramines I'm gonna have to start using conditioner again :-(
> A couple of years ago when I checked, I go an emphatic no to the chloramine question...


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## acropora1981

Circulating for a half our is not really nessesary or helpful. The dechlorination reaction is instantaneous. It is complete within a fraction of a second. Simply stirring with your hand for a few seconds is completely adequate.


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## duckyser

wow i didn't realize it worked immediately. Now i can get rid of my 50g tank i use to condition my water.


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## acropora1981

duckyser said:


> wow i didn't realize it worked immediately. Now i can get rid of my 50g tank i use to condition my water.


It is a good idea to let it sit and agitate it for a few minutes for another reason; pressurized gases. You know the bubbles you sometimes get on the sides of an aquarium? That is gas coming out of solution. If it happens inside a fish, it can cause a gas embolism. Its good to at least let the water sit in a bucket for a few minutes, it doesnt take long. Agitating it while its in the bucket will also help.


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## duckyser

in the past i let my water sit in my 50 and then pumped it into my main tank, but bubbles always form on the side of the main tank after filling it. the water had been sitting in the fifty for half an hour with a filter so why am i still getting bubbles?


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## acropora1981

duckyser said:


> in the past i let my water sit in my 50 and then pumped it into my main tank, but bubbles always form on the side of the main tank after filling it. the water had been sitting in the fifty for half an hour with a filter so why am i still getting bubbles?


Good question. Could be that your tank is warmer than the water you are putting in, making oxygen less soluable when the new water hits the warmer aquarium water, it comes out of solution.

I've never actually SEEN any problems (18 yrs in hobby) from this, but I have read in books that it can cause serious injury to fish. Its similar to the 'bends' that divers get if they surface too quickly.


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## duckyser

i guess i will have to be more careful about matching the temperature differences between my change water and tank water. Hopefully that is the cause of the bubbles.


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## Lee_D

What you are discussing is "Dissolved" gases, not pressurized gases. It is normal, and comes from normal aeration of the water. It is essentially what the fish breath, so it will not harm them in any way.

Bubbles on the side of the container can be produced by two effects. When the water comes out of the tap, it becomes saturated with air. As the water re-equilibrates in the container, the air slowly disolves out producing the bubbles. The other effect is temperature dependant. Gas is less soluble as the temperature rises, so as the water warms up, the disolved gases come out of solution.

For air bubbles to form inside the fish (the bends) the pressure change would have to be quite significant. Not the range you would find in the average aquarium.

Lee


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## acropora1981

Lee_D said:


> What you are discussing is "Dissolved" gases, not pressurized gases. It is normal, and comes from normal aeration of the water. It is essentially what the fish breath, so it will not harm them in any way.
> 
> Bubbles on the side of the container can be produced by two effects. When the water comes out of the tap, it becomes saturated with air. As the water re-equilibrates in the container, the air slowly disolves out producing the bubbles. The other effect is temperature dependant. Gas is less soluble as the temperature rises, so as the water warms up, the disolved gases come out of solution.
> 
> For air bubbles to form inside the fish (the bends) the pressure change would have to be quite significant. Not the range you would find in the average aquarium.
> 
> Lee


I've seen reference to this effect in several aquarium and aquaculture books and there are warnings that it can cause injury. So it must be significant enough to have happened at some point. Again, never seen any issue from it personally, but that doesn't mean it can't or doesn't or hasn't happened. To be safe, I always agitate my water as I put it in. I never put my python hose under the water when I fill, I spray it in, vigorously agitating it to get the gases out.

And what I meant when I said pressurized gases is that the water system is under pressure, leading to higher concentration of dissolved gases.

I would argue that the water coming from the tap has a higher concentration than what the fish are used too; because fish are used to gases being pressurized below what is in our tap (80ish PSI). Surface of earth is around 101 kpa, and 80 psi is about 550 kpa...thats a big difference. A real big one.


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## Lee_D

Ok, good point, I hadn't thought far enough. The pressure of the water in the main line is about 110 psi and is regulated down to about 80 psi for your house. Also, this time of year it is between 5 to 10 degrees. If that water is in contact with air, the air will dissolve into the water and super saturate it. When it comes out of the tap, the water equilibrates with room temp and pressure and produces the bubbles on the walls of your container.

Is this toxic to fish? Any significant change in water quality is likely not good for fish. Some fish may prefer highly oxygenated water, others may not. To many variables for a knowledgable opinion on my part. I think I'll stick with doing water changes the way I always have, let the water sit overnight to off gas chlorine and equilibrate temp, then keep the change to 10-20%.

Lee


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