# Filtration vs. stocking levels



## colio (Dec 8, 2012)

Hello Gang, 

I'm setting up a 35 gallon. I think I am overstocking a bit (according Aqadvisor.com, about 120%). But the site lists stocking level, and filtration level. 

Now, assuming the stocking level is not actually resulting in overcrowding in terms of space, how does that relate to filtration? I currently have an AC 300, which is rated to 70 gallons. I am thinking of adding an emperor 400, which is rated to 90 gallons. This is serious over filtering for the tank, which I have heard is always a good thing. 

Now, my understanding of filtration is that it cleans the water. Great, I want nice clean water! But will it also keep nitrates down? Or does not not work that way because the the cycle of ammonia > nitrite > nitrate, which is a set chemical reaction with a set output? 

But... if adding excessive filtration doesn't help prevent nitrate buildup, and reduce my need for water changes... what exactly does it do? Just prevent ammonia spikes (and replace them with less toxic but still potentially dangerous nitrate spikes?)

Commentary on this issue is appreciated, as I need to decide if I really want to spend money on the Emperor 400!


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

First of all the AC70/300 should be plenty of filtration.

Second, more filters do nothing for nitrates

Generally speaking there are two ways to lower nitrates, water changes and plants.

extra filtration does a couple things, gives you more range for bio filter, and also the more you filter, the more you can remove fine particals.

An ac 70 is over filtration for a 35 gallon but its not going overboard, meaning you aren't wasting too much of the capability. Adding another filter would be basically pointless.

I currently have an AC110 on a 35 gallon, will be moving it to a 75 gallon soon and moving an AC70 to the 35. The 110 is too much for the 35, when the water level drops a bit, the flow from the filter moves my sand substrate around.

If you have lots of live plants to go with the AC70/300, you are pretty well set. Just make sure you monitor your nitrates and water changes. If you are ending up having to do excessive water changes to control nitrates, then you are over stocked and need to do something unless you don't mind doing constant water changes.

I once read something about a bacteria that takes about a year or so to build up that helps nitrates, but this would be a long wait if it happened at all.


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## GAT (Oct 8, 2011)

floaters like duckweed and amazon frogbit help to reduce nitrites. I think plants in generals will help with nitrates but fast growing ones suck them out.


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## colio (Dec 8, 2012)

If I let the level drop a bit, even the AC 300 was making a crater in my sand. 

I have a very large number of plants in the tank. In fact I don't thibk I could possibly squeeze in much more, aside from a few low growing ones between the higher plants (like my ozelot sword). 

the main reason I considered extra filtration is that when I use aqadvisor, it suggests I am at my filter capacity (not counting the effects of plants) while only a little past 100% stocking. 

My current stocking plan is 5 boesemani rainbows (3 juviniles in places), an opaline gourami (juvinile bought), 7-8 kuhli loaches, and a school of 10 of something, maybe black phantom or rummy nose tetras. Maybe the extra school is excessive.


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

the filter you have should be enough, especially with being well planted.

how have nitrates been? how long have you had this setup, how much wc and how often?


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

colio said:


> If I let the level drop a bit, even the AC 300 was making a crater in my sand.
> 
> I have a very large number of plants in the tank. In fact I don't thibk I could possibly squeeze in much more, aside from a few low growing ones between the higher plants (like my ozelot sword).
> 
> ...


First, that stocking is not excessive at all. I used to keep 30 cardinal tetras, a dozen guppies, and an SAE in a 20 gallon. With a decent light, my plants kept the nitrate levels at 20ppm.

Second, overfiltering is a waste of electricity. Especially in a planted tank, where plants already do a big part of the biofiltration. The only reason you'd want it is if you wanted more water movement.

What is the dimension of your tank?


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## colio (Dec 8, 2012)

The tank is 36x18x18.5 (LWH). I have only had it up for a few weeks, and only recently added the first fishies. I kick started the cycle with filter media from my smaller tank, and the cycle seems fully completed. I have 0 nitrities, maybe trace ammonia (I wasn't sure if the test tube from was quite fully yellow for 0 ammonia, but if there was any, it was 0.1 ppm or less, I think). Nitrates were a bit high though (around 30-40 ppm, surprising with only a few fish in the tank, and so many plants). I did a 30% water change a few days ago. I'm away from home now, so unfortunately I cannot monitor things as much as I'd like, but it is the first thing I'll check when I get back!! 

I plant to do water changes of ~5 gallon, 2 x per week (I find twice easier, so I can let the water sit in my bucket and reach room temp before adding it to my tank). 

I already have plenty of water movement. So I'll bail on the idea of extra filtration. Thanks for the advice all!  I'll also not be shy about getting that extra school. Now the question is, what? I've been going over lots of ideas for what will fit with my tank and do well in my water, but I think I will ultimately not decide until I'm at the LFS.


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

colio said:


> The tank is 36x18x18.5 (LWH). I have only had it up for a few weeks, and only recently added the first fishies. I kick started the cycle with filter media from my smaller tank, and the cycle seems fully completed. I have 0 nitrities, maybe trace ammonia (I wasn't sure if the test tube from was quite fully yellow for 0 ammonia, but if there was any, it was 0.1 ppm or less, I think). Nitrates were a bit high though (around 30-40 ppm, surprising with only a few fish in the tank, and so many plants). I did a 30% water change a few days ago. I'm away from home now, so unfortunately I cannot monitor things as much as I'd like, but it is the first thing I'll check when I get back!!
> 
> I plant to do water changes of ~5 gallon, 2 x per week (I find twice easier, so I can let the water sit in my bucket and reach room temp before adding it to my tank).
> 
> I already have plenty of water movement. So I'll bail on the idea of extra filtration. Thanks for the advice all!  I'll also not be shy about getting that extra school. Now the question is, what? I've been going over lots of ideas for what will fit with my tank and do well in my water, but I think I will ultimately not decide until I'm at the LFS.


That's a good tank size, but if you already have 30-40ppm nitrates, your plants are probably not growing as well as they should. What light do you have on there?


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

did you seed the tank by squeezing out a sponge? that could explain the higher nitrates also.

But Solarz is probably dead on with lighting

also what plants do you have?

are you doing co2?

maybe take a pic of the tank

I have had tanks stay at 0 nitrates because of all the plants and light and stuff.


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## colio (Dec 8, 2012)

I'd love to post a pic but my daughter broke our camera, and I can't transfer pic from my crappy phone to a PC! 

I do have a serious light shortage. I have a single 36 inch light, which I think has a T8 bulb (which means 30 W, and I am not sure the spectrum but think it is either 6700 or 10000). I got the light second hand. I plant to add a T5 double light to the tank as soon as I can. There is a pile of plants in there. Lots of hygros (polysperma, sunset, bold, pinnatifida, and a bunch of compact), a large ozelot sword and very large anuboas, dwarf sag, a pile of frogbit and a Hygroryza aristata as floaters (contained to the side of the tank with the Anubias), and some others. I recently added bacopa carolina, some crype, about 20 Val Americanis, creeping penywort, a bit of water clower, some java fern (mostly small, one big, both regular and windalov), Lilaeopsis mauritiana (on the shaded side), plus some more. 

I have some DIY CO2, which was going at a good rate, but then the seal broke, and the new brew is a bit slower (less sugar). 

Dispite the low light, I've actually had quite nice growth on some plants. I was away for over a week just after christmas, and some of the hygro grew a good 6 inches. the Anubias sprouted piles of new roots, and maybe started a baby. The newer plants were only there a few days before i left, but seemed to be doing OK. 

For upstarting the cycle, I took the whole media from my small tank (a bio-bag from a tetra whisper 10) and put it in the AC 300, along with the AC300 sponge. And I just left it there for 3 weeks. Since it was fully colonized, I assumed it would simply spread. I added some flake food to grow the bacteria colony. had some level of nitrates in the tank and no nitrites) before I added fish. I think the higher test results may have actually been a nitrate spike from the fish, or something. Or I just did the test wrong!! 

I've been away from home since Saturday last week, and am really anxious to go check my tank (Sunday). I have someone feeding the fishies conservative amounts of food, but I can't get them to check the tank for me (it is a bit much to ask to do a test kit analysis). So I'll see how things stand soon!


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

colio said:


> I'd love to post a pic but my daughter broke our camera, and I can't transfer pic from my crappy phone to a PC!
> 
> I do have a serious light shortage. I have a single 36 inch light, which I think has a T8 bulb (which means 30 W, and I am not sure the spectrum but think it is either 6700 or 10000).


Yup, that explains it. I ran a 15W T8 on my 20-gallon for almost a year, and while my plants grew, I didn't really get any nitrate-reducing effect. When I upgraded my light, the nitrates dropped dramatically.


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

how old is the bulb? bulbs are good for plants for maximum 1 year and that is pushing it.

also do not have the light on 24/7, the plants need rest to, normal is about 10 to 12 hours a day but that is just a general range. Gotta find the balance of enough light for the plants and too much which causes extra algae.


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## colio (Dec 8, 2012)

I don't know how old the bulb is, it came with the light, which was bought from GTA. 

I generally keep the lights on about 12 hours. I have no visible algae in the tank. 

Thanks for the advice. Its funny how this thread started about filters.


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