# New setup. Need advice.



## EquiReef (Mar 12, 2014)

So we set up our first reef tank in December. One is no longer enough. We just purchased a 35gal, a 75gal and a 135 gallon as well as a 35 gallon sump/fuge. Go big or go home right? 



I want the 135gal to be a frag/coral tank only. Possibly with a section divided off for anemones. The other tanks can be used for sumps/fuges etc. 



What size sump and what set up am I best to go with? The 135 is not drilled but is VERY thick and I believe tempered, will this be an issue to drill and is there a way to do it without drilling. My husband is a tool and die maker so I wouldn't be going at this endeavour on my own and he is pretty handy. 



Best bet for lights?( don't want MH)



Skimmer?(do I need one?how big)



Powerheads? Or some other form of water movement? 



Sandbed or no sandbed? 



Basically just looking for any and all advice that can be offered. 



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## noy (Nov 19, 2012)

Can you tell us a bit about your plans? What type of corals do you see yourself keeping?

You may find keeping just a couple of fish will enhance your coral growth (fish poo is great coral food.)

Is this is long 135 (72" length) or a cube?

For a system that size I think drilling is the way to go. You can check whether your glass is tempered using a laptop and a polarizing filter. Essentially, untempered glass lets light pass thorough a polarizing filter the same as if you didn't have the glass there (i.e. will block the light when the polarizing filter is turned to full).






If you can't drill or don't want to drill you can get an overflow system. 
https://www.goreef.com/CPR-CS150-Overflow-Box-Flow-rate-1600GPH.html
Do your research - I would try to get one that has the best restart capability (i.e. will restart after you turn off your return pump).

I would strongly recommend a skimmer even though its coral only and get the biggest one you want to afford. The recommended tanks sizes are often over-inflated and I would get one that is rated for 2x your tank size.

As for sump size - 35 gallon should be good enough as long as it will fit your skimmer/return pump.

Sandbed / No sandbed. I think this is really a question of aesthetics as you really don't need an active sandbed for bio-filtering these days. No sandbed is easier to clean and you don't have to vacuum your sandbed. There is a line of thinking (especially if you keep NPS corals) that the bacteria grown in the sandbed is the best coral nutrition out there and that you should disturb your sand bed occasionally for that purpose.

Powerheads - again this will depend on the corals you keep. I have to say I am very partial to the Jebao WP series. I just picked up the twin controller and its pretty effective wavemaking.

Lighting. If you keep SPS - you will require strong lighting. Everyone seems to their opinion as to whether T5 / LED's are best. I actually use T5s with LED (Kessil A360WE) supplementation. You can design your tank around the lighting for example - I've seem tanks on RC that have SPS on one side and then no SPS on the other end. My tank is SPS on top and LPS/NPS on the bottom (roughly) so I have my LED supplementation all aimed at the SPS.

Hope that helps and tell us more about what you intend to keep and we can provide more detailed advice.


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## EquiReef (Mar 12, 2014)

So the tanks available for this endeavour are the following sizes:

38gal sump 12.5x19x36

73gal 19x18x48

18gal (box that fits on the top of the sump I assume for bio balls?) 16x17x15.5

129gal 24x72x18

32gal 29x14x18

As for what kind of corals I would like to start off with corals that are easily propagated. Leathers, acro, monti, Xenia, sun corals, favia, ricordia, acan, blasto etc. 

I think we will probably run a skimmer it's just a matter of what brand to go with. Big ALS took us for a ride the first time around with our initial set up and I'm not going down that road again. 


Is it possible to drill tempered glass? The main tank is a miracles tank and is extremely thick glass with no bracing. 


I want to have an anemone tank, am I best to run a separate tank off the same sump for this or put a divider in for them in the main tank?



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## noy (Nov 19, 2012)

You can't drill tempered glass. Talk to John at NAFB - if you can take your tank there he may be able drill and put in an overflow for you.

If you have acro's and anemones you will have to invest in a good lighting system. 

Don't see any issues with dividing your tank for the anemones except it may look kind of crummy. You can probably get someone to build something out of acrylic for that.

Your sump sounds like a wet/dry setup. Bio balls are not generally used for reef setups - they don't promote anaerobic bacteria to break down nitrates.


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## EquiReef (Mar 12, 2014)

So here is my idea for a sump/fuge. I want to run the 135gal and the 75 gal off the same sump This setup is going in an unfinished basement and the sump will be either beside the tanks or between them.

The sump will be 38 gallons with the fuge being 35 gallons. This drawing is horrible but you get the idea.

I want to run a phosban reactor and maybe a calcium reactor if needed but I dont know where I should run them from in the sump.


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## EquiReef (Mar 12, 2014)

noy said:


> You can't drill tempered glass. Talk to John at NAFB - if you can take your tank there he may be able drill and put in an overflow for you.
> 
> If you have acro's and anemones you will have to invest in a good lighting system.
> 
> ...


Taking my tank there is not an option. Had to hire movers to get it into the basement as it is. The glass is around half an inch thick and has no bracing so I assume it is tempered. I will do the test on it this weekend and see if that answers my question, but I will just assume for now that I need a HOB overflow(or two?).


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## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

If you have 3D glasses and a laptop (cellphone might work), here's the "trick".

Polarized lenses (glasses or camera filter) looking at the pane at an angle to a sunlit reflection you can see the "rainbowish" stress marks in the image like topographic maps.

Typically in aquariums larger than 55gal, only the bottom pane is tempered to save on shipping weight.

In regards to the "centralized" filtration of your system, you won't need the bioballs if there is at ~1lb/gal of LR in every aquarium plumbed to it.

I think you'll just be getting by the "skin of your teeth" with that sump size to hold the water from all the aquariums should the main pump fail/power off for servicing.

Doing the math, just the aquariums alone, w/1" of water (from bottom of teeth to running level) wil have a volume of 10-11gallons not accounting for water drainage from the pipes...so conservatively guessing another 2-5gallons without accounting for volume drain until complete siphon break and pipe diameter as well as lengths used.

If you must use that sized sump, you will have to omit the bioballs and LR to have a lower baffle height to accommodate the water.

HTH/JM2C


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## deeznutz (Aug 21, 2013)

EquiReef.

You come off as someone very new in the hobby. That's great, cause I can remember the first time I got into salt. Very exciting.

There's been some great advice so far.

My advice is to do a lot of reading and understand what to do and why you are doing it. 

Go read peoples build threads and see what people are doing. A lot of info can be gathered from a well documented build thread. Especially ones with lots of pics.

There are some many different ways to run a reef tank. Most employ sumps with skimmers, while others do not. I difference can be due to the experience level and understanding of how things works. Or just the type of tank they are running

For eg

Someone that is running a 40 frag tank with no fish will have good results with no skimmer and very little water changes. While the same tank, filled with fish and over feeding can have problems galore.

I run a 75g mostly SPS frag tank
T5 lighting, over stocked, strong skimming, 20g water change every 
2 week-ish.

From my under standing, Miracles do not temper their glass unless it is drilled or notched. So if it's just 5 piece of glass with no holes or notching. Odd are they are not tempered. But, check to be sure.

Good luck with your build. Why not start a build thread?

-deez


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## EquiReef (Mar 12, 2014)

Thanks for the help guys. I have read a lot of build threads and "how to" threads (I work in an office so am on the computer all day) but I find a lot of conflicting info and have had a hard time finding info on large frag tanks. 

As I said I have only had saltwater tanks since December, always fresh before that. One tank is no longer enough and the only way my husband is entertaining this hobby and it's expansion is because I've told him we can sell some frags down the road or trade for other frags. I'm completely obsessed with every aspect of this adventure. 

I am in no hurry to get this build underway and want to ensure we take all the correct steps before proceeding. I have regrets with my main tank after taking advice from staff at Big Als and don't want that happening again. 

Am I best to run both tanks off of their own sump or can I run them off one large one? How many gallons of sump should I be running? 

I don't think I am brave enough to go without a skimmer and we are going to go with one rated for much more than we will have running off of it. 

Can I get away with that size sump if I have another hole drilled at the very top of the sump with a hose going to a drain should the sump water ever reach that level? Does that make sense? 


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## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

EquiReef said:


> Can I get away with that size sump if I have another hole drilled at the very top of the sump with a hose going to a drain should the sump water ever reach that level? Does that make sense?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The problem with doing that is if the power cuts out, water drains and the power comes back on, the pump will run dry and burn out. If you have an ATO, it'll add FW and drop the salinity.

Centralized and independently filtered systems have their pros and cons.

Centralized has fewer components to monitor but one of the branched system is affected by the other, whether it be nutrient or elemental demands, nutrient and pest/disease control, etc. I can be quite the balancing act of monitoring and tinkering.

Independent systems are easier to monitor and control but you are having to purchase and monitor more equipment,

The space you have allocated, as well as amenities and access for such a project will help in determining a plan and layout which would be best suited for your needs on a long term basis.

JM2C/E/HTH


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## noy (Nov 19, 2012)

The hole in the sump idea is a disaster waiting to happen. 

Your dual tank sump design just seems unduly complex - it workable but I'm not sure I would recommend it. Best bet is to run pump to feed the refugium with an overflow feeding back into the sump. This means the refugium tank will have to be elevated a bit.

You should have enough live rock in your 135g system for breaking down NH3. You just need some nitrate export in your sump and you can run your refugium right in the one sump. You may want to run reactors too (biopellets or PO4).

I am a huge fan of a central sump with a centralized filtration/nitrate/PO4 export. Less maintenance. 

I would urge you to set up just the 135g and get that going and viable. You will get some experience in running a reef. If you intention is to become a frag vendor (seems like everybody and their brother is selling frags) - you still would want to have established colonies in your main display from which you will frag. You can run a frag setup off the same sump later on. 

I don't know if 12.5 inches is the height of your sump. Just keep in mind every tank you run off the same sump will require a bit of clearance in terms of water level in the sump (after you turn off the return - the water level will rise due to backflow from the overflow/drain). Most larger skimmers require 7-8+ inches of water to run effectively - so you have to plan out to make sure your sump works with all the tanks you are feeding in terms of water level.


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

deeznutz said:


> EquiReef.
> 
> From my under standing, Miracles do not temper their glass unless it is drilled or notched. So if it's just 5 piece of glass with no holes or notching. Odd are they are not tempered. But, check to be sure.
> 
> -deez


Absolutely correct. They drill holes and after that send this piece for tempering if required for the custom tank

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## EquiReef (Mar 12, 2014)

I dont plan on having any liverock in my 135 gallon, just frag racks. We have a reef tank upstairs which is our display tank and we aren't making any changes to that system.

We don't plan on selling frags as a way to make an income, my husband and I both have full time careers and this is merely a hobby. I agree that west of us "everyone and their brother" sells frags, however we are minimum of an hours drive in good traffic away from any decent coral or reef stores. The closest place to us is a Big Als which offers poor choices in corals which more often than not have started to decline by the time it reaches their store tanks. 

If I were to run only the 135gal off of one sump/fuge combo, can I run it off of a 35gal sump with the fuge built into it? Or would I still need a larger sump?


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## EquiReef (Mar 12, 2014)

sig said:


> Absolutely correct. They drill holes and after that send this piece for tempering if required for the custom tank


If the glass is not tempered, can it be easily drilled? Diamond tip hole saw? What are the advantages to drilling over the HOB overflow?


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## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

HOB overflows have an inherent flaw that air can accumulate in the the siphon tubes/channel. Over time and eventually losing the siphon from the interior well to the exterior and the aquarium will overflow.

Drilling for a proper overflow system will eliminate this problem. It takes about 10-15mins to drill out a hole for a 1.5" bulkhead through 1/2" glass. IIRC, 1.75" diamond hole saw is required.

Limiting to what you have/want to use, it would be easier to keep the systems separate. The 38gal sump will be fine w/an attached refugium underneath the 135gal.


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## noy (Nov 19, 2012)

wtac said:


> Drilling for a proper overflow system will eliminate this problem. It takes about 10-15mins to drill out a hole for a 1.5" bulkhead through 1/2" glass. IIRC, 1.75" diamond hole saw is required.


1.75 inch hole fits a bulkhead with 1" piping - which is a good size.

If you don't care how it looks - you can run the return over the top. Otherwise you may want to drill a hole for the return. Just keep in mind if you want to use the loc-line attachments they fit onto 3/4" (or 1/2") piping.

If you are not keeping fish the HOB overflow should work (much lower bioload - less requirement for nitrate/PO4 export) - might even be more flexible - you may want to use that 135g as a display in the future (and get a more professional overflow setup done.) Can't say I'm an expert in HOB overflows - every tank I have is drilled.


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

noy said:


> 1Can't say I'm an expert in HOB overflows - every tank I have is drilled.


 why you advice this guy to have HOB . and what type of overflow has to do with bio load?

EquiReef,

you can not just trow questions around an expect reasonable answers. Start to checks thread how people build and decide what you want to have.

register for reefcentral.com and check builds there. SW set ups much more complicated than FW and to make changes later will be costly.
Until you will decide which tanks/ overflows/sumps you have, I do not recommend you to get equipment

check this one. many details

http://gtaaquaria.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14907

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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

check this also. It has dual sump design

http://gtaaquaria.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35358

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## noy (Nov 19, 2012)

sig said:


> why you advice this guy to have HOB . and what type of overflow has to do with bio load?
> 
> http://gtaaquaria.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14907


One of the problems with HOB overflows is that they are prone to stopping and many do not self prime. If you have a low bioload - it won't be an issue if you don't have any nitrate/PO4 export while your overflow is down. You won't have a problem with nitrate/po4 build up.

My suggestion with going with an HOB overflow is that EquiReef may find that running a 135g frag tank to be a bit much in maintenance for what they get out of it and they may just want to reconfigure everything in the future. That way they will not end up with a tank that they drilled a hole in just to get by.


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## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

noy said:


> 1.75 inch hole fits a bulkhead with 1" piping - which is a good size.


You are correct: 1" bulkhead needs a 1.75" hole. A 2.25" hole for a 1.5" bulkhead. For a drain for that aquarium size, I prefer to use a 1.5" drain line.



noy said:


> If you don't care how it looks - you can run the return over the top. Otherwise you may want to drill a hole for the return. Just keep in mind if you want to use the loc-line attachments they fit onto 3/4" (or 1/2") piping.


One can also drill for a return in the overflow box and plumb it up, out and over to keep a cleaner look. I prefer to use at least 1" for the return line and then reduce it to 3/4" or 1/2" for Loc-Line. The larger pipe diameter for the return will reduce internal frictional flow and the elbow you use will not add as much to the "head height" pressure calculations resulting with a higher GPH @X' if you were to use narrower pipe diameter.



noy said:


> If you are not keeping fish the HOB overflow should work (much lower bioload - less requirement for nitrate/PO4 export) - might even be more flexible - you may want to use that 135g as a display in the future (and get a more professional overflow setup done.) Can't say I'm an expert in HOB overflows - every tank I have is drilled.


Slower GPH through a HOB overflow is worse as the velocity of water going through the siphon tube/channel may not be enough to push bubbles through and allows for a greater potential of bubble accumulation to stop the siphon.

CPR uses a channel type siphon and has a "bleed" nipple you can attach either a Tom's AquaLifter or a venturi to a powerhead to help suck out any accumulated air in the channel. If they fail, you have a problem. Drilling for an overflow box is the only way to avoid this inherent issue.

JM2C/HTH


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## EquiReef (Mar 12, 2014)

sig said:


> EquiReef,
> 
> you can not just trow questions around an expect reasonable answers. Start to checks thread how people build and decide what you want to have.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry, I will read the forum rules again as I thought we were allowed to post our questions and ask for advice here. I am new to the hobby and have stated such many times. I am looking for experienced reefers experience and opinion because I dont want to just go at it based on a few build threads (with very different opinions which dont directly relate to what I am building)and regret my decisions later on. I also did not think any of my questions were unreasonable and have found everyones input very helpful and reasonable. Thank you for the links, I will read them as well.



noy said:


> One of the problems with HOB overflows is that they are prone to stopping and many do not self prime. If you have a low bioload - it won't be an issue if you don't have any nitrate/PO4 export while your overflow is down. You won't have a problem with nitrate/po4 build up.
> 
> My suggestion with going with an HOB overflow is that EquiReef may find that running a 135g frag tank to be a bit much in maintenance for what they get out of it and they may just want to reconfigure everything in the future. That way they will not end up with a tank that they drilled a hole in just to get by.


All I am hoping to get out of this is more tank space to grow corals. Some people have gardens in their back yard, some people have 135gallon tanks in their basement. If we can drill the tank we will go that route as that seems to be the one thing all reefers can agree on.

Would adding a backup battery to the system solve the sump issues?


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## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

Having a central filtration system with one aquarium on the second floor, your proposed sump will not be big enough to handle the backflow of water as to goes into a static state.

A battery back-up will cost you over $1k for a true sine wave to drive a 300w load for 3 hours. 

Cheaper to just buy a larger aquarium for a sump.


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## EquiReef (Mar 12, 2014)

I am not running my main floor tank off of the sump. That system is going to be completely separate from the tanks in the basement. But at any rate, I think I need either a second sump or a larger one by the sounds of it for the basement. 


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## Letigrama (Jul 6, 2008)

Hey Sig, did you offend someone else again, 

Equireef.... your adventure, is just too adventurous. I would like to ask perhaps a few questions nobody asked because they all get into the equipment frenzy, which, you should pay attention to their advice, most of them know what they are talking about.

I would like to ask you how big is your DT right now? and how much time do you have for your tanks, are you planning on quitting your career?  I also only started my tank last june, so almost a year ago, I also have a full time career and I know I dedicate at least one hour a day to my 110g. and that is everyday of the year. mantaining a large tank could be very time consuming.

To me, the plan seems to be a big backwards. We get big tanks as our displays, and when our corals grow to big, we frag them into plugs and we put them ins smaller shallow tanks. Your frag tank not only will be gigantic, but i think is way too deep for being a frag tank, ideally you want something shallow for better light penetration and easy handling. 

In regards to the drilled/not drilled/ what do you have right now? Cuz I have an HOB system and I regret it everyday. The only one thing that i didnt want was an HOB and I got it because it came with the package. The HOB needs to be checked on everyday for levels, doesnt self prime ( they are selling now some with air valves to release the trapped air) and the box and the pipes get algae all the time. I cannot go on vacations without someone coming every week to check the pipes are not about to loose siphon. For that size of the tank, I couldnt think of having an HOB system..... to me, is starting already with the wrong foot, just like I did.

You are going to keep on getting bombarded with negative comments here because your idea is a bit crazy and overboard, having all those tanks you will think that is setting up a store and also that you have tons of money to pay for the hydro, salt, time, chemicals, livestock, etc. however, is your life and your money, may be you have it  but dont expect sympathy here, they have seen too many people with big ideas going down the drain in a few months because they got overwhelmed. is a big commitment, but if you want to dream big, who are we to stop you, dream on!


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## EquiReef (Mar 12, 2014)

I appreciate all of the advice everyone has given and I am asking this all ahead of time to ensure I don't make any mistakes with any of the recently acquired tanks. As I said, Big Als was my source for the original tank and I have a great deal of regrets with that build. It's a 55gal with an eheim pro 3 canister and a hang on saline skimmer. They told us it was the way to go and that if we went with a sump we would regret it. So helpful, thanks a lot. They also instructed us to leave the skimmer turned up to high which flooded our kitchen and basement but that's a whole other story. 

I currently spend at least an hour a day with my tank. I have an emerald crab who has a few missing legs so he gets hand fed twice a day, a sun coral with about ten heads that I feed daily with tweezers and a mandarin that I bred pods for initially to ensure I had enough in the tank and am now over run by them. I spend 3-4 hours on the weekend doing a water change, cleaning my skimmer, lights etc as I can't stand things being dirty and am a bit OCD. I expect to spend the same or more time on the additional tanks. My husband has cars and a garden, I have tanks and horses. 

As for vacation, that's unrealistic as I show horses on the national circuit which means going away is out of the question as I would have no one to keep them in work and looked after. I am no stranger to dedication and hard work and am not blind to the requirements of one tank let alone several. 

As for the costs, we spent a fortune under the guidelines of big als to set up the first tank and after talking to many reefers afterwards we were told we were ripped off. We aren't really concerned about the dollar value of the project, just don't want to spend money on the wrong things or do it in the wrong way. We spent over $1000 in marineland LED reef lights because we were told it was the best idea, only to find out we got ripped off. 

After reading the comments and build threads I am realizing that running the 135gal as a frag tank is not worth it. I have also decided that if it can be drilled, that's what I will do. 

I posted this expecting to get bombarded with negative comments and have very thick skin. But I posted this to ensure I took the proper steps in this build so that I don't end up with regrets and wasted money. My husband doesn't care if I spend money on the hobby but does not like to find out I've spent it poorly. 



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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

EquiReef said:


> I'm sorry, I will read the forum rules again as I thought we were allowed to post our questions and ask for advice here.


I am not sure if you are sarcastic or what 

for sure you can and need to post questions. Please read my post again.

That is what I asked you to do in my post and now we can answer your questions, since you made your mind:

"....After reading the comments and build threads I am realizing that running the 135gal as a frag tank is not worth it. I have also decided that if it can be drilled, that's what I will do. "

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## EquiReef (Mar 12, 2014)

sig said:


> I am not sure if you are sarcastic or what
> 
> for sure you can and need to post question. Please read my post again


Ok, I obviously misunderstood your comment in which you stated "you can not just trow questions around an expect reasonable answers. ". I did not think any of my questions were unreasonable nor did I think any of the responses I got were unreasonable? Also did not feel I was "throwing questions around".


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

EquiReef said:


> Ok, I obviously misunderstood your comment in which you stated "you can not just trow questions around an expect reasonable answers. ". I did not think any of my questions were unreasonable nor did I think any of the responses I got were unreasonable? Also did not feel I was "throwing questions around".


good luck with the build

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## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

If you are thinking of frag tanks, you won't need it any higher than 12" and no wider than arms reach. 

Thinking many step ahead, if the frag bug has bitten you, centralizing the frag systems will make maintenance it easier and instead of the expense of acrylic/glass sumps, poly stock tanks you see in farm/agricultural supply stores work just as well and at a significantly cheaper price and ALOT tougher.

HTH


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## EquiReef (Mar 12, 2014)

I attempted to do the test to see if the tank is tempered. I put a laptop with a blue screen behind the glass and looked at it with polarized sunglasses, the laptop didn't look any different with the glass in front of it than it did without the glass. So I thought great! That means its not tempered, right? So I wanted to double check my findings as I had read that ALL side windows on vehicles are tempered. Well the side windows on the car AND the windshield all looked the same as the fish tank. So now I am confused. I am going to try and get a hold of Miracles today and see if they have any idea.

We have decided to get the big tank set up and set up the 75 gallon at a later date. Once we have both of these tanks set up, we will order a frag tank from NAFB or Miracles. The 135gal will be set up as a display tank in the basement and we are scrapping the original idea all together. I think I may put some sort of acrylic frag rack along the top back wall of the tank however, just so I have somewhere to put plugs, out of the way. 

We have decided to go with a Vertex skimmer, has anyone found anywhere that has super awesome prices on it? Or would give me a deal if I ordered LED lights, skimmer, pump etc from them?

Still debating if we will run the sump with a filter sock or sponge, but I have decided to run the 135gal with the 38gal tank as the sump.


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## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

Hmmm...if you know anyone in the glass/window industry, there is a device like a stud finder *(for structure...pervs)* and you lay it on the glass and it will indicate if the glass is tempered or not.

Generally, as others have posted, Miracles doesn't temper the side panes of glass but it's always good to get an answer from them just to be sure.

I don't run sponges nor filter sock in the systems I design but I do have places for them should the need arise. It's all about thinking many steps ahead . A 38gal sump will do fine even w/a refugium attached as per your attached drawing. I would build a stand for the refugium so that it's at least the same height as the sump.

As for the Vertex skimmer, the Omega 150 will be fine for low-medium bioload but IME the Alpha 170 is better suited when it gets packed w/coral growth.

The LFS that I would recommend that you visit to chat with is Advanced Reef Aquariums and ask for Flavio. Milton will be a bit of a drive but a few hours for great advice, checking out hands on the equipment on the display aquarium, etc, is well worth it to research and consult face to face in designing a system for your needs.

When it comes to LED lights, I have my preferences but the recommendations are based on client needs of system (home networking, smart phone control/access, etc), ability (some computer/smart phone and networking to control/access) and computer/smart phone OS preferences. Compared to just using a 6lamp T5HO system, there's a bit of adjusting/tinkering in the channels (different LED colors) to get the "look to your eye" and the needs of the corals.

It doesn't have to get that complicated and BuildMyLed is one that I have been using for a few clients (FW planted and reef) and does the job very well. Getting the dimmer control box helps in adjusting intensity in the beginning and when problematic growth arises.

Lots to factor into a build as well as product ranges. It can make your head spin.

Overall, it seems that you've got a basic plan and vision in mind. From there, it's all about what kind of access/control you need/want from the various components not only for the system but future "add-ons", ie controller, to monitor/access the system if you wish to go down that path at a later time.

Best of luck and enjoy the process


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## noy (Nov 19, 2012)

EquiReef said:


> I attempted to do the test to see if the tank is tempered. I put a laptop with a blue screen behind the glass and looked at it with polarized sunglasses, the laptop didn't look any different with the glass in front of it than it did without the glass. So I thought great! That means its not tempered, right? So I wanted to double check my findings as I had read that ALL side windows on vehicles are tempered. Well the side windows on the car AND the windshield all looked the same as the fish tank. So now I am confused. I am going to try and get a hold of Miracles today and see if they have any idea.


If you are using sunglasses (vs. a polarizing filter) - you have to tilt the glasses - untempered glass should show the screen as being dark - tempered glass should show stress lines.

Try this link http://www.salt-city.org/showthread.php?9542-How-to-tell-if-glass-is-tempered

Not too sure what you mean by sponge - generally the drain pipe will return into a filter sock - typically 200 microns. The idea is that this will catch the larger particles so that you can remove them when you change filter socks. Its a mechanical filtering mechanism. They are great as long as you change the socks regularly.

A sponge typically is a bio-filter where bacteria breaks down ammonia/nitrite into nitrates. They are different things altogether.

I do admire your immersing yourself in the saltwater experience so fully.

My suggestion is to go to forums like RC and take a look at some of the tanks - not for the build aspect of it but more for the aesthetics and design. It might give you some direction as to what you want to do with these tanks (your current display and your 135). RC has a thread with best tanks in the world- it really is very inspiring. There are also some phenomenal photos in the "photography" section. Having a bit of a vision for your tank might assist you in terms of the equipment you need and what type of system you need. There is also an on-line publication called Reef Hobbyist - the tanks they feature are really spectacular and often have a very focused theme.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1747132
http://www.reefhobbyistmagazine.com/


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## EquiReef (Mar 12, 2014)

Thanks so much guys.

Should I go with a sponge and a filter sock? At the end of the day I want this to be the best it possibly can be and I want to keep the tank as clean as it can be. 

I am absolutely obsessed with the hobby now, looking into getting my PADI cert. because seeing these things in tanks isn't enough anymore and I would love to participate in the coral preservation projects, first I must learn how to swim lol. We dont have kids, nor will we ever have kids so we wont have to worry about kids getting in the way of our extracurricular activities. 

The more tanks and build threads I read, the more tanks I want. And the more ideas I have and the harder it is for me to make a decision. So many gorgeous tanks and so many great ideas.

I got a response from Miracles with regards to if they thought my tank was tempered and now I am terrified to drill the tank:

"Typically not unless we drill holes in panels for the project at the beginning. Drilling an aquarium does weaken the structural integrity and depending on where you located the hole, the glass may break which is why we temper the panels that are drilled"

Yes, I know I am probably over reacting because 90% of saltwater tanks are drilled but I am a little freaked out now. When I tried with polarized sunglasses, I tilted my head and the laptop screen in a bunch of different directions, does it only work if you actually tilt the sunglasses on their own? I have watched a few videos on how to do this but still cant seem to figure it out. 

As we did with out first tank, we would rather buy equipment that is built to handle a much larger tank than we intend to run. We are looking at buying a skimmer/pump etc. capable of running a 200gallon tank. I have read a bunch of reviews on different skimmers and so far the Vertex seems to be the most constant.


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## EquiReef (Mar 12, 2014)

noy said:


> http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1747132
> http://www.reefhobbyistmagazine.com/


That first link has some incredible tanks. Makes me start to feel like 135gal isnt enough! I found a 180 for sale the other day and have been itching to get it, but have told myself I dont need it... yet. My mind is running wild with ideas.


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## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

We're all here to help .

The impression that I get from you is that you dedicated and passionate in all your interests and like noy, I tip my hat to you in the immersion in this hobby.

There are so many aspects and techniques in creating a "successful" system and no two are alike nor their path from start to "finish". All you can take away from it is a general idea of what obstacles that you may encounter and plan/anticipate as well as be inspired.

IME, the other aquariums you have purchased to expand into the hobby, should be repurposed for other functions in the grand scheme of your salty dreams and get a properly built aquarium for your needs to ease your worries. Consider it another "payment of dues" as we've all experienced .

If you *really* want to use the 135gal, do call around a few glass companies w/a mobile unit that has one of those devices that can determine if the glass is tempered. Considering the time you have already spent investigating and tinkering vs the cost of calling one of these guys out...just adding another perspective but I wholeheartedly understand it's the journey of the process as I'm just as guilty when I get into something new .

Before you buy any equipment, narrow down a plan of what you want of the system*(s)* and go from there.

JME/2C/HTH


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## EquiReef (Mar 12, 2014)

Has anyone had any experience with these lights? http://www.oceanrevivellc.com/

I just came across this site: http://www.oregonreef.com and I am totally inspired. My husband is very accommodating with my adventures and rarely says no but I don't think he will allow me to take over the garage lol. But the general idea of this set up sounds to be along the lines of what I would like, on a smaller scale. So will just have to shrink it down.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

Mr Weast's build is truly inspirational but unfortunately, it is no more. Something along the line of his skimmer over skimmed and dumped out most of the water when he went out for the day...it was devastating hearing about it.

I've never used those lights before but I can tell you that it's a "rebranded"/private labled LED where the company is base in China. Not to say they are all bad but this is one of a few items of SW equipment where it can be an expensive purchase. Just from the specs, they wouldn't be suitable for a system that is deeper than 18".

JM2C


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## EquiReef (Mar 12, 2014)

Ya I knew the tank was no longer but didn't know the reasoning. That's absolutely tragic. Our skimmer drained half our tank into our kitchen, down the vents and into the basement. Thankfully we had no deaths.

I don't know anything about the correct light spectrum but figured these lights were to good to be true. Although I have seen some people saying they use them on their mixed reefs and love them. Maybe they are shallow tanks? Would they be fine for something less than 18"?

Amanda
Www.keystonefarms.co.nr


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## noy (Nov 19, 2012)

I would not recommend a sponge - use live rock in your sump for bio-filtration; the advantage being that live rock will encourage anaerobic bacteria which will break down nitrates. Sponges tend to trap junk in them.

As for the coldwater tank "Shoreliner" has a thread on RC in the non-photosynthetic corals section. He and the supplier he deals with are very helpful guys. I actually didn't know Weast's setup crashed - that's too bad.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2309921

There is another guy who runs a coldwater tank and keeps mostly anemones in them on RC.

These are very challenging setups and will require a large chiller to keep the water temperature in the right range. Most of the corals are NPS corals. Also you will probably have to arrange with suppliers to get livestock imported and will likely have to arrange for permits (or convince them to do it). I would urge you to run a NPS (non-photosynthetic coral) setup first to get some experience in that area before diving into coldwater. NPS setups have different maintenance challenges and are not very compatible with your typical reef setup. To be honest you may just want to hold off and get some experience and really have a handle of reef setups before diving in - especially in using a controller.

I have a recent 60 gallon NPS set up that I plan on keeping at 70F. Even for that I think I will likely have to run a chiller in the summer (we will see).

Sign up for Reef Hobbyist Magazine (free)- there is a article on NPS corals in the 2013-Q4 issue (full disclosure - I wrote that article).


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## EquiReef (Mar 12, 2014)

Are both of his setups cold water? I thought only the two smaller tanks were and the large one that is no longer operational was a warm water reef tank? I'm not interested in getting into a cold water tank, couldn't be bothered with the hassles that it sounds like it comes with

Amanda
Www.keystonefarms.co.nr


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## EquiReef (Mar 12, 2014)

noy said:


> Sign up for Reef Hobbyist Magazine (free)- there is a article on NPS corals in the 2013-Q4 issue (full disclosure - I wrote that article).


Off topic but I just read your post on Sun Corals/dendro, very helpful. I bought a sun coral (at least I think thats what it is?) off someone on Kijiji who wasnt feeding it. It looked awful but has come around and I feed it daily, its amazing how much it will eat. The heads come out as soon as it senses any food or if I turn off the powerheads and will remain out all night. It has so many new polyps coming out, I am very happy with it. I pick it up and move it to the top of the rocks to feed it every night and then put it back down, doesnt pull its polyps back in at all.


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## noy (Nov 19, 2012)

EquiReef said:


> Off topic but I just read your post on Sun Corals/dendro, very helpful. I bought a sun coral (at least I think thats what it is?) off someone on Kijiji who wasnt feeding it. It looked awful but has come around and I feed it daily, its amazing how much it will eat. The heads come out as soon as it senses any food or if I turn off the powerheads and will remain out all night. It has so many new polyps coming out, I am very happy with it. I pick it up and move it to the top of the rocks to feed it every night and then put it back down, doesnt pull its polyps back in at all.


nice, looks like a very healthy colony! There is something called "Julian's Thing" that you can use to squirt food at them without moving them. They are really indispensable for target feeding in general.

https://www.goreef.com/Two-Little-Fishies-Julian-s-Thing-Coral-Feeding-Tool.html


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## EquiReef (Mar 12, 2014)

Thanks will have to look for one.

So I came home and my husband had decided to completely de-rim my 135gal. I had told him that I had wished it was a rimless tank and he took matters into his own hands. I don't know what to do now. It never had a centre brace and each corner of the black plastic rim was not attached to the next piece, so each side of the tank had an independent piece of plastic. Am I in for trouble now?

Amanda
Www.keystonefarms.co.nr


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## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

Generally speaking, you will be fine as that type of trim does not offer any structural support. If it was a single piece w/a centre brace, I would put it back on.

Rimless systems look great but a bit of a PITA when cleaning @the waterline as you will get spill over. Best way to minimize this is to make the overflow teeth ~2.5-3" deep so when it's running, the water line will be 1.75-2" below the top. Also, try to avoid fish that are jumpers...kinda ruins the look if you have to put on a mesh top.


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## noy (Nov 19, 2012)

I am forever haunted by the picture posted in this RC thread.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2114065


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## EquiReef (Mar 12, 2014)

Our other tank is rimless and I love it. Yes the water splashes like crazy whenever I do anything but it's worth it for look. I'm a mess working with the tank regardless, my freshwater tank has a rim and I still make a mess lol.

He didn't touch the rim around the bottom of the tank, I wouldn't even think of trying to fill it if he had done that. We are resealing the whole tank before filling and he said he would make me a stainless steel centre brace if I was worried about bowing.

The only thing comforting me in all of this is that the plastic was four pieces and not connected at all in the corners.

Amanda
Www.keystonefarms.co.nr


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