# Water Parameter Help



## mattymac (Dec 15, 2012)

Any help would be appreciated.

Converted a freshwater tank about a month and a half ago. Having some issues getting my water parameters in line just wanted to see if anyone had any input. 

Tank specs 
- 120gallon with two rena xp4s and a marineland canister
- About 200 lbs of live rock from running tanks and new crushed coral substrate
- Three powerheads at 1400gph
- two 250w metal halides with two 96w compacts and leds
- Two heaters , keep water temp at 77 degrees

Water Parameters 

- 0 ammonia
- 0 nititrite 
- 5-10 nitrate
- 7.4 pH
(tested with api)

- 16 dkh alkalinity 
- 600 ppm calcium
- 1600 pp magnesium 
(tested with red sea)


All my kits are valid and testing correctly so I have no idea whats up. I use the cheapo salt instant ocean and I am beginning to think that is the problem. I have been doing a 10-15 percent water change every day to try to get it in the zone but it almost seems as if it is going up slightly every time I do it. I have been using a coralife RO unit for the water changes and before it gets mixed it has a dkh of 6.5. 

I have about five corals and some mushrooms and a few smaller fish in there and everyone seems to be doing alright. I am also getting the snowing of the calcium at the top as small grains. I have all the dosing bottles from red sea but have not dosed at all yet (obviously no need).

Can anyone help? LFS says just to leave it be. Thanks.


----------



## altcharacter (Jan 10, 2011)

Your salinity is high


----------



## mattymac (Dec 15, 2012)

Sorry forgot to add that 1.023


----------



## Bullet (Apr 19, 2014)

IMO I would be more concerned about your canister filters over the long term


----------



## mattymac (Dec 15, 2012)

Why? I don't plan on having many fish and I change water three times a week min. Water changes frequently solve anything. Don't want to run a sump on my second floor of house.


----------



## Bullet (Apr 19, 2014)

mattymac said:


> Why? I don't plan on having many fish and I change water three times a week min. Water changes frequently solve anything. Don't want to run a sump on my second floor of house.


Unless canisters are cleaned very regularly, nitrates can build up


----------



## mattymac (Dec 15, 2012)

Thanks. Any idea with the water quality?


----------



## Bullet (Apr 19, 2014)

I agree with your LFS about letting it run its course a little longer 
In saltwater terms, your tank is still quite young 
Every tank is different and stability times can vary


----------



## mattymac (Dec 15, 2012)

Why are the parameters so high tho the salt?


----------



## altcharacter (Jan 10, 2011)

Your numbers are high due to your salinity being off. I'm almost positive that you're water isn't 1.023 and probably much higher.

You can ask most seasoned reefers that it is nearly impossible to get the numbers that you have with the salinity that you are running.

I also agree that you should let your tank run it's course and check it once a week or so.

Recalibrate your refractometer and take a water sample to a LFS to see if it matches to what they are saying.

Lastly, get some salifert test kits


----------



## mattymac (Dec 15, 2012)

I have two refractometers both working fine. It is 1.023 on both.


----------



## zoapaly (Jul 10, 2013)

Api test kits suck , no way your parameters DKH 16 Ca 600 mag 1600 went that high ? 
Bring your water to me i will test for you free , or i can come right to your place


----------



## blunthead (Jan 24, 2011)

how nice is that


----------



## mattymac (Dec 15, 2012)

It's a red sea test kit. I can bring you some, no issues. The parameters are what they are. It a not a question of that, just why they are high. They are so high its creating grains on the surface and snowing.


----------



## zoapaly (Jul 10, 2013)

I'm living close to you so tomorrow i have nothing to do all day , so i can come help you test .Pm me


----------



## mattymac (Dec 15, 2012)

Thanks I'll msg you. Hopefully you know how to fix it too


----------



## Curtis22 (Dec 11, 2014)

Hey man i will help you out.....

First off, everyone is correct in that your biggest mistake ever is using a canister filter and not a sump ! That said you chose not too, you may have not had a choice because your tank is tempered glass. So your solution is.... ditch your canister filter and buy a good hang on the back filter or more powerheads!! Trust me....

Your canister filter is not needed in salt water, its not doing anthing but building up nitrates for you. Think about it, your live rock is your biological filter !! Protein skimmer mechanical.....cleaning and siphoning and blowing out your rocks and sand is up to you! There is no filter in a sump other than a filter sock (in some tanks) changed daily - so you need to actually clean your canister out daily which is annoying and almost impossible....

Secondly, the other most important thing is flow in your tank so detritus makes it to your protein skimmer. Your skimmer cleans your water, again no need for a dam filter ! Increase your live rock and living organisims which help break down the bioload would be better than leaving your canister.

Thirdly, you need to go buy a filter sock, and siphon your water daily into a bucket through this filter sock !! your water will come out clear and you put it back into your tank. Dont throw out water. Try doing 50% water changes without throwing out your water or adding new water! Do this to lower your nitrates. Ditch your canister as it is the source ! Use a hang on back as its easy to clean out daily and change pads, or carbon or even put GFO in a bag is better than nothing but change it often and rinse out your GFO Bag from detritus daily from any HOB. The only way i ever beat super high nitrates in tanks like this are by removing the canister and stepping up the cleaning schedule.

Im sorry but this is the only way you will ultimately lower your nitrates because you chose not to have a sump. I cant tell you how many tanks i try to help fix that have a canister and no sump. Every one of them has a nitrate problem. There's nothing i can do for people like my brother, my cousin, my friends who all dont listen and not setup a sump and buy some fancy canister they end up throwing out and their tank does better without it. But thats ok - you just have to Remove everything from your canister, make sure its clean or dont even use it and step up your cleaning to get your nitrates down.

+1 on get your salinity up to 1.025 and have it checked. 

Calcium ALK and MAG are super easy to overdose and can get to levels that high ! Nothing you can do but stop adding anything and let your corals absorb it, and try to keep it in balance as having one perameter too high will cause you to add more power of another perameter making you waste product and money ! Theres no way all 3 are that high, one has to be low i think.


----------



## Curtis22 (Dec 11, 2014)

I just actually read your post more clearly and you have no skimmer? I was gonna say you need two or a more powerful one so there is less maintenance for you to do.....and you have 3 canister filters?  talk about maintenance ....your making way too much work for yourself.

Water changes may be off setting your balance in your tank, i personally hate water changes and will never do one i get enough evap and top off water and problems getting nitrates to even read, therefore i clean less, change my socks less and feed more. Its all about balance...

Nitrates at 10ppm with 3 canisters is actually not that bad....new tank as well...wait 6 months they could be 50. 

API Test kits - worthless other than ammonia and nitrite which as you see not really needed....

RED SEA Test kits - are all great EXCEPT the phosphate one is crap if you want to measure low phosphates (less than 0.16) there is no way your eye can tell anything at that level. Its basically good to tell you if you have high phosphates, crap to tell you what they actually are. You need a Hanna ultra low phosphate meter.


----------



## paulie (Mar 25, 2013)

Might be a left field question, but do you have any surface agitation? I am assuming you shut off all pumps for the photo, but it is important for gas exchange that you get good surface agitation in reef tanks.

Good luck with the tank, I hope it settles down for you.


----------



## Reef Hero (Mar 2, 2014)

Although low PH is a good indicator that your salinity is higher than normal, it's by no means a clear indicator of this being the issue. But I must ask are you sure you are using the refractometer correctly? You must push down on the lens so that very little water is between the reading glass and the plastic lens on top of it. Many reefers originally think that having more water between there is better but it is not and will give u incorrect salinity readings. 
Also, I would agree to drop the canister filter and buy a skimmer. What did you use for liverock or other substrate in the aquarium? 

Ok I just went back and reread the OP.....
What do u mean by liverock from running tanks? From other reefers saltwater tank? 
And what brand of crushed coral for substrate?? 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Bullet (Apr 19, 2014)

I have 1 Aquaclear 110 HOB filter that I can loan you if you want to remove one of your canisters and switch it out 

It is definitely not big enough to support a 120 ga but I wanted to make the offer 

PM me if you need it


----------



## Dax (Sep 29, 2010)

My 120 runs without a sump or canisters. I do however have a decent HOB skimmer.
My 2 cents-
-ditch the canisters
-get a skimmer
-Point the powerheads towards the surface for better gas exchange
-water change once a week is enough. My feeling is you are messing with the tank too much and it is having a difficult time stabilizing
-if the fish and corals look ok, don't get hung up on the parameters at this point. Your tank needs time.

The most difficult part is PATIENCE.


----------

