# fishless cycle with bacteria?



## ilikefish (Mar 10, 2008)

im using bacteria to cycle my tank. what levels do i watch for?


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## Mlevi (Jan 28, 2012)

Presuming you are adding an ammonia source in the tank as well, you'd watch for ammonia to spike, and ultimately, for nitrates to go up.

Cycling is an art rather than a science...in terms of no two tanks cycle at exactly the same rate. With a little patience (sometimes a lot of frustration), it will work.

Take a look at the first post in the article below:

http://gtaaquaria.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8458

Al.


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## ilikefish (Mar 10, 2008)

so the bacteria doesnt really speed things up


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## Mlevi (Jan 28, 2012)

Adding bacteria speeds up the initial stages of the cycle.

The logic behind fishless cycling is, you are establishing beneficial bacteria in the tank, so that when you add fish, there is already a system in place to convert their waste chemicals readily. As opposed to just adding fish and then waiting for the bacteria to enter the tank and establish itself.

However, if you just add a source of bacteria without ammonia, whether it be a store bought thing or media from someone's tank, it doesn't have anything to "eat" in your tank, and will perish.

What is your source of bacteria that you are adding to your tank?


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## ilikefish (Mar 10, 2008)

topfin bacteria supplement.
i went to the ps they dont trust ammonia and told me to use shrink, the shrimp smells tho. and i feel food will dirty the tank alot??


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## Mlevi (Jan 28, 2012)

I have never tried live food, or fish food for cycling. The problem with both those sources is, you can't keep control over how much ammonia it will produce. Whereas, with pure ammonia liquid, you can calculate how much to add A> the first time, and B> topping up to maintain a constant concentration.

For example, when I did a fish less cycle, I calculated ammonia to be 4ppm initially. When the bacteria kicked in, I wanted to maintain that 4ppm, until it went to 0ppm in 24 hours. In order to maintain that, sometimes I'd have to add enough to form 1ppm extra, sometimes 3ppm extra. There is no way that can be maintained with food or rotting livestock as a source...and yes, if you overdo it, it can mess up the tank.

The store bought 'bacteria in a bottle' is iffy. Some people have great results, some not so great. You're better off just asking here for someone that is within a reasonable distance, if they can give you their used filter media. That's the best source. Might not even have to go thru a cycle if used media is your source (depending on the size of your tank, and the number of fish you intend to introduce).


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

the store bacteria supplement helps. The best way is to get used media from someone.

For myself, because I have multiple tanks that are running, if I want to setup a small tank, I can easily get enough bacteria from other tanks and I can put some fish in right away.

There is a good post about cycling options

old fashioned way is using the store bought bacteria supplement like stress zyme and very very slowly adding fish while the bacteria builds up. This method can hurt fish if you aren't careful. Some people use junk fish like feeder guppies or feeder goldfish. Others believe this to be cruel to the fish.

Fishless cycling requires a source of ammonia, fish food technically works but as said earlier, hard to keep it consistant.

I believe recommendations for ammonia are in the thread for cycling.

In my opinion the best two ways are a good source of used media or going fishless cycle. Used media is the fastest, I have had tanks cycled in 2 days, but that was alot of used media.

whatever method you are going to use, make sure you have a good test kit for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels, liquid tests are the best.


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## Zidartha (Nov 16, 2012)

pyrrolin said:


> Used media is the fastest, I have had tanks cycled in 2 days, but that was alot of used media.


I always rely on used media. But how much used media is enough? I try to run an extra filter on a tank and then move the spare over to the new tank.

Is this over kill? Can I just grab a handful of gravel and be good to go? Anyone have a ratio for used media/tank size?


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

running a new filter on an established tank for at least 2 weeks is a great way to get the bacteria in the filter.

I use mostly aquaclear filters and the part that mostly holds the bacteria is the bag of stones in it. I have an aquaclear 110 and when you buy the stones part it is in two bags. In this situation just move one of the bags to the new filter in the new tank and put a new bag in the old filter. I also have a few aquaclear 50 filters and some of them I have 2 bags of stones in, only need 1, I like to keep extra so if I need to seed a tank I have stuff ready.

I also have some pot scrubbers in my canister filter, I believe I have 6 in there right now, it is no problem for me to move 1 or 2 of them to another filter.

You can always take a container of used gravel and sit it in a new tank in the container under the filter outflow so the water flow hits it, leave it in for at least 2 weeks and it will help. Or if the new tank uses the same gravel as the old tank, just take some out of the old tank and put it in the new tank and some of the new gravel put into the old tank to replenish what you took.

If you have larger tanks and want to seed a small one, you can get a bit of a boost just by taking water from the large to fill the smaller tank. There isnt much bacteria floating around in the water but every bit helps.

Plants usually have lots of bacteria on them also.

If your used filters are the kind that are floss with carbon inside that you just replace every few weeks, take it and swish it around in the new tank, squeeze it a bit, a lot of the junk that comes off is good bacteria, some is just junk, makes the tank cloudy for a few hours but clears up fast.

If you have any filters with a sponge on them, squeeze them out into the new tank, good bacteria there to.

I also have some over fist size chunks of lava rock in some tanks that I can move to a new tank to help seed bacteria.

Basically bacteria live on any surface in the aquarium, filters are designed to have parts with very large surface area.

I recently setup a tank that had potting soil under some gravel and forgot to test if the soil leached ammonia. I did a normal good seeding of bacteria but wasnt enough and I had spikes, so then I really went nuts and seeded it alot, ended up having 3 filters on it and it was finally cycled a day later, what I added so much used media to get things under control fast for the fish I put in the tank.

Another way to get some good bacteria is just clean the gravel of another tank and dump all the junk in the new tank.

The more bacteria you can put in the better and faster it will go.

But if all the bacteria you put in staves, it will die and you will have wasted your time.

If you can seed a new tank well, you can put a couple fish in right away to give food for the bacteria.

Probably the best method is fishless with ammonia, an amount that would be the same as the stock you will be putting into the tank, once cycled, you can put that stock of fish in and not worry too much.

Even with seeding, fishless cycle or whatever you do, you need to monitor levels closely while cycling and after you think it is cycled for a while to be sure.


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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

Using death and decay to cycle a tank is not a good way to start a tank. You'll get your nitrification bacteria, but you'll also be culturing a host of diseased bacterias as well.



Zidartha said:


> ...Is this over kill? Can I just grab a handful of gravel and be good to go? Anyone have a ratio for used media/tank size?


Using a cycled media is the best way to go. Unless that persion is running a UGF (Under Gravel Filter) system, a hand full of gravel only puts you a fews days ahead in your cycle. This is because there are neglegable amount of nitrification bacteria in the gravel.

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