# HELP! I'm Buying a Used-InUse tank+fish(tang/clown)



## ScoobyDoo (Feb 26, 2010)

Here is a picture of the setup I was sent from the seller.

Setup is 6 weeks old.

55g tank
crushed coral bedding
2 Hippo Tangs
2 Clown fish

My question is, as a first time buyer, what should I be on the watch for when I go to see them. Also from the pictures, is the tank setup properly (excluding the addition of better plants etc). Specifically I am referring to the heaters, filter, and what looks like an air bubble creator on the left. 

Let me know your thoughts please, always appreciate friendly advice 

(I am not a total noob, I have done my research and maintained plenty of fresh water tanks before, looking to move to salt) 

Thanks a bunch !

Scooby!


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

If you're paying any more than $100 for all that, then keep looking. It's a woefully inadequate SW Setup.


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## ScoobyDoo (Feb 26, 2010)

That's just not accuracte.
Well I visited bigals today. The tank alone is 239.99. Each clown is 20.00 each tang is 119.99 add in the water treatments and filters and its easily worth more then 100.


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## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

ScoobyDoo said:


> That's just not accuracte.
> Well I visited bigals today. The tank alone is 239.99. Each clown is 20.00 each tang is 119.99 add in the water treatments and filters and its easily worth more then 100.


It's not what it's worth in money, it's that it's wrong. Everything about it is wrong. The setup is wrong. Where's the live rock? Where's the biodiversity?

It's a woefully inadequate SW setup. If you're buying it used, $100. Max.

When you buy a used full setup it's not how much it would be worth new, it's how good of a setup it is.

We aquarium folk are weird.

Honestly if you want to move to salt, buying a setup from someone with a pre-bagged bottom and no live rock and a little castle thing... no.

Buy a 20g with proper live rock lots of inverts some feather dusters maybe pulsing xenia from someone who knows what they're doing.

This guy is filtering with a canister filter.

It's not that it doesn't work it's just wrong wrong wrong.

Don't buy this. If I may put it another way, you would have to pay me about $400 to take that setup.


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## gucci17 (Oct 11, 2007)

I know everyone sounds harsh but they are truely trying to save you from throwing your money away. If you think that is a proper SW setup, perhaps a little more reading into SW setups will help you understand why we are all against it.


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## ScoobyDoo (Feb 26, 2010)

I understand that I would need to add live rock and get a protein skimmer.

This is just the starting point.

Example: To buy the tank, fish, crushed coral, etc would cost me well over the 100 mark.

So the way I look at it, is I am getting stuff I need (tank, water treatments, salt etc) at a low price, then if I buy it brand new.

Also I will be taking the water from his tank (transported in buckets) and putting the same water back in the tank when it arrives here. I was informed by numerous experts that , that is fine.

The person selling the fish tank/fish said he doesn't have the time to upkeep it. To me he sounds like he doesn't care, and I don't want to see the fish die.

This is the Skimmer I was looking at getting just to start, to give them a safe home for a few months until I can setup a full/proper tank.


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

This whole way of starting up will probably just result in you having to dump more money into the tank to bring it up to "marginally acceptable".

If you want to do a 4 foot tank, go with a 75g (48 x 18 x 21). Also, a 55g is one of the less desireable shapes ofa tank that you can buy for a marine reef - the 12" front to back is really limiting, especially on a 4 foot tank, especially with the height of the tank.

As for the equipment you're getting, it's hardly worth buying used - the only thing useful you're buying is a heater. The tank isn't worth didly squat in comparison to the work that you're going to have to put into it. The filter is good for FW applications, and the lighting is garbage unless you're only ever going to keep fish.

There's hardly enough rock for any appreciable biological filtration nor cover or grazing area for 3 tangs (2 regals and 1 convict). The crushed coral is a bad choice for a tank with poor circulation (I can't remember if I saw more than 1 powerhead) as it traps detrius and is probably a wonderful nutrient sink right now.

Additionally, starting a tank, having life in it and then gathering all the stuff you need is ass-backwards way of setting up a tank. Like having a baby then over the next few weeks getting clothes and a crib for it. 

Odyssea is just about the crappiest crap you can buy. Look at another thread of people buying amazingly cheap Chinese T5HO units - those people are having to put out more money now to replace the crap parts that burned out - why? Because the units are garbage, and down the road, that $75 bucks that you "saved" turns into another $250 you have to spend because 1, the skimmer you bought sucks and you need to upgrade, and 2, the skimmer you bought sucks and everybody else who knows anhything knows that and won't buy the used crap skimmer from you.

Sorry if I sound like a dink, but if you think we're wrong, then go ahead and make the purchase. Like Big Ray said, we've all been there - PC lights, crappy skimmers - we're just trying to keep you from making the same mistakes we've made.

I'd also suggest sitting tight for a bit longer and picking up a quality used set up. Definitely at that size of tank, go with a system that has a sump - it'll make for much easier equipment choices as well as cleaning up the display clutter. 

Trying to save the fish is great, but you're certainly not doing yourself any favor. If anything, suggest to this guy to return the fish to a LFS.


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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

I also notice that the tank is sitting on top of a stand that is smaller than the tank. This means that there are downward pressure from both ends bending the bottom glass. I would walk away from a tank like that even if it's free. Can't take the risk of the tank breaking with expensive fish in it. What kind of filter is it? If it's an Eheim, maybe it's still worth the $100. But you will need to do one hell of a cleaning to get all the salt out and switch to a fresh water filter.

*Never pay again for live sex! | Hot girls doing naughty stuff for free! | Chat for free!*


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## gucci17 (Oct 11, 2007)

I don't think the OP has even confirmed the asking price of the setup.


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## mr_brixs (Jun 18, 2009)

where is this tank located ima smack the owner in the head...

DO NOT BUY THAT TANK.... its not worth it... i feel sorry for the fish... yo can you ask the seller if he will sell the fish separately i would happily buy it it from him... to save them...

but yah listen to them this set up is wrong..


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## ScoobyDoo (Feb 26, 2010)

thanks guys


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## ScoobyDoo (Feb 26, 2010)

ameekplec. said:


> This whole way of starting up will probably just result in you having to dump more money into the tank to bring it up to "marginally acceptable".
> 
> If you want to do a 4 foot tank, go with a 75g (48 x 18 x 21). Also, a 55g is one of the less desireable shapes ofa tank that you can buy for a marine reef - the 12" front to back is really limiting, especially on a 4 foot tank, especially with the height of the tank.
> 
> ...


I appreciate the brutal honesty, I'm taking everything into consideration. 
Some people have suggested smaller setups etc. But I don't want to get a 20 gallon, then upgrade to a 55 gallon as that will be more money. My close friend works at an aquarium/marine store.

Can you guys direct me towards a setup/place to buy these fish (hippo/reagal tangs, clown fish) , live rock, the tank, sump, protein skimmer.

As well, if I am going to do this properly, I will need to buy one or two items at a time. Example Tank, wait a few weeks, rock+treatments etc, wait a few eeks, sump/skimmer.

Any help is appreciated  You guys are the experts so mold me into the PERFECT salt water tank keeper .

ScoooooooobyScoooobyDoooooooooooo!


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## Brian (Mar 14, 2006)

I'm glad you're open to the suggestions because halfway through reading your initial posts, I was going to smack you instead of the seller.


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

ScoobyDoo said:


> I appreciate the brutal honesty, I'm taking everything into consideration.
> Some people have suggested smaller setups etc. But I don't want to get a 20 gallon, then upgrade to a 55 gallon as that will be more money. My close friend works at an aquarium/marine store.
> 
> Can you guys direct me towards a setup/place to buy these fish (hippo/reagal tangs, clown fish) , live rock, the tank, sump, protein skimmer.


Eh, it's easier than being nice 

If you can do a bigger set up, somewhere between 30 - 100 gallons (in retrospect...I started at 10g) would be a nice starting point if you have the space and resources.

I would go to Sea U Marine (Hwy 7 and Woodbine). Ken is a great guy and will help you out with what you need - and he won't have you going home with expensive crap you don't need, or bad advice you shoudln't follow.

His shop isn't huge but you'll be able to get most of the parts you need from him. He stocks all decent to high end brands of lights, skimmers, pumps, etc. It's not like Big Als as a one-stop-shop, but it's pretty good for almost everything you need.


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## ScoobyDoo (Feb 26, 2010)

How much should I be looking at spending. I am talking absolute necessities.

without fish. 

I read its generally its 20-25$ /gallon for non reef, and up to 35$+/gallon for coral tanks
and .50-1$/gallon for monthly maintenance for non reef.

But from your guys buying experience whats the best prices I can get on stuff for example live rock @8$/lbs sounds so high. I am sure someone here knows where to get it cheap. OR for example the Hippo Tang being 120 at big als, but someone said its 30. All those savings add up for me. I am a student so I in the earn/spend era of my life, not the earn , save, and spend  

I will eventually want
2 hippos
2 clowns
and 2 of the yellow (tangs?)


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## ScoobyDoo (Feb 26, 2010)

I watched this, very good, clear information for starters. 
http://www.monkeysee.com/play/10711-how-to-set-up-a-saltwater-aquarium


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

You have lots more reading to do  Read up first before making any moves on anything, equipment, livestock and otherwise.

You can usually find live rock for as low as $3/lb from other hobbysists getting out of the hobby or selling off their extra rock.

As for the livestock choices, 1 tang in a 75g is pushing it for long term survival, 4 will be a problem for sure.


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## hojimoe (Mar 7, 2008)

ScoobyDoo said:


> How much should I be looking at spending. I am talking absolute necessities.
> 
> without fish.
> 
> ...


price per gallon is never accurate, because the price could be for a bare setup without having long term supplies, water filters and a good lighting system (which is needed for corals somewhat)

putting those 4 tangs in a 75 gallon is a HUGE no no.....for those 4 tangs look for something like a 5-6 foot tank, 120+ gallons MINIMUM

livestock (fish) you can buy from Sea-U-Marine in Markham at much better prices than big als which is really a HUGE rip off for rock/fish/corals

like ameekplec said from other hobbyests selling off their stock/extra for anywhere from $3-6/pound

Agains sea u marine sells liverock, can't remember his price, but he also can order in 25lb boxes of uncured rock for a more reduced cost. Though you may have to wait a couple weeks for him to need to order larger quantities to save on shipping charges


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

lol..price per gallon "rule".

By that logic, my 20 gallon display should cost a sum total of $700. I've probably put in many (many?) times that.

But you can also do an inexpensive set up too which would be just as satisfying.


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## conix67 (Jul 27, 2008)

ScoobyDoo said:


> That's just not accuracte.
> Well I visited bigals today. The tank alone is 239.99. Each clown is 20.00 each tang is 119.99 add in the water treatments and filters and its easily worth more then 100.


Big als sells 75G tanks for $99 when they are on sale. 55G tank should not cost $239, that's a major rip off.

Large blue hippo tangs cost a little more but those look pretty small. You can buy medium size blue tangs for $30 at reputable stores.

The setup is not worth a lot of money. You can use them as is, but not worth over $100 unless you're desperate.


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## ScoobyDoo (Feb 26, 2010)

conix67 said:


> Big als sells 75G tanks for $99 when they are on sale. 55G tank should not cost $239, that's a major rip off.
> 
> Large blue hippo tangs cost a little more but those look pretty small. You can buy medium size blue tangs for $30 at reputable stores.
> 
> The setup is not worth a lot of money. You can use them as is, but not worth over $100 unless you're desperate.


HEY! I AM NOT DESPERATE! lol  I was at Big Al's myself and saw the 55g tank (like the one he is selling) for 239.99 not two days ago. So... ya lol

Thanks for all the input guys. I have deiced the following. 
At the end of March I want to have the tank(55g+)+filters+powerheads (im going to buy a 10-20g hospital tank as well)
At the middle of April I will put the live rock and accessories in+buy the skimmer
And at the end of May, I will get the fishies. (2 clowns-2hippo tangs)

That way I give my tank ample time to cycle. and more importantly I give myself ample time to educate myself further. I know everyone says SW tank is so hard etc etc, but I am definitely a smart person and very responsible, and also have alot of free time on my hands. I won't let you guys down ! !

I do have one question though. I have an African Gray parrot, named Cosmo lol. Will Cosmo and the fishes get along? or should I put them in different rooms (I have read mixed reports on this so I am asking my new fav group of people "Da Experets les Aquarium" haha (thats you guys btw))


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Great that you're taking the advice to slow down and read, so hopefully in the months ahead you'll realize why you can't keep two Regal tangs in a 55g (Hint: They can easily reach 9+ inches, and are territorial towards members of their own species/genus).


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## ScoobyDoo (Feb 26, 2010)

ameekplec. said:


> Great that you're taking the advice to slow down and read, so hopefully in the months ahead you'll realize why you can't keep two Regal tangs in a 55g (Hint: They can easily reach 9+ inches, and are territorial towards members of their own species/genus).


by the time they are that big I will have a tank double the size probably.


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## hojimoe (Mar 7, 2008)

ScoobyDoo said:


> HEY! I AM NOT DESPERATE! lol  I was at Big Al's myself and saw the 55g tank (like the one he is selling) for 239.99 not two days ago. So... ya lol
> 
> Thanks for all the input guys. I have deiced the following.
> At the end of March I want to have the tank(55g+)+filters+powerheads (im going to buy a 10-20g hospital tank as well)
> ...


the price of 239.99 maybe was a kit? the manager would be fired if a 55g tank alone was 239.99..

6 weeks between adding rock, and adding fish is a huge no no, I'd wait 2 months (8 weeks MINIMUM)..... then add a clean up crew first, and then slowly add fish, never add more than 2 fish at a time IMO and wait a few weeks between adding more


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## ScoobyDoo (Feb 26, 2010)

hojimoe said:


> the price of 239.99 maybe was a kit? the manager would be fired if a 55g tank alone was 239.99..
> 
> 6 weeks between adding rock, and adding fish is a huge no no, I'd wait 2 months (8 weeks MINIMUM)..... then add a clean up crew first, and then slowly add fish, never add more than 2 fish at a time IMO and wait a few weeks between adding more


Easy enough, I will just shorten the time from when I get the tank-->add rock, thus lengthening the time between rock->fish addition (its more a financial decision then anything and a rough one at that).


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## derekc85 (Oct 23, 2008)

avoid it at all costs

1, no filtration, skimmer, sump
2, fish selection, tank is too small for the hippo tang
3, tank is too big for stand
4, where is the live rock?
the list just goes on and on...


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## ScoobyDoo (Feb 26, 2010)

derekc85 said:


> avoid it at all costs
> 
> 1, no filtration, skimmer, sump
> 2, fish selection, tank is too small for the hippo tang
> ...


you're a bit late to the party ! but welcome none the less


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## Cypher (Apr 15, 2006)

Salt water is _not_cheap_. Do the research before you jump in. At the same time, you learn far more by jumping in and making mistakes. Boy have I made mistakes... HUGE mistakes... still learning though - all very interesting. Oh yeah, and get yourself a refractometer. It'll save you a bit of grief wondering about salinity accuracy.


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## ScoobyDoo (Feb 26, 2010)

OK SOOOOOOOOOO I have been convinced. 

Scratch the 55g

Going for 100g


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## conix67 (Jul 27, 2008)

This hobby is difficult to hit the right target at the first time. What I mean by this is that you think such and such is what you're looking for. What you end up doing is that even before the project is done, you begin to think of the next upgrade.

It is useful to get your feet wet with something you can experiment with, and my choice was a nano tank. The advices that come from very patient and experienced reefers in this forum and others are very valuable, and quite true.

So, you'll enjoy a good success with 100G tank, but if you can afford it, go with a larger  

Also, get a deep tank (not height), shallow ones are easier to work with, since you'll need to get your hands down to the substrate quite often.


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## ScoobyDoo (Feb 26, 2010)

I just want my tangs to be able to have alot of space and grow into the tank and not have to have their home changed after years of being used to it.


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## carmenh (Dec 20, 2009)

+1 on the refractometer. I have been using hydrometers and thought I had a good idea what the salinity in my tanks was. But I just got a refractometer this week (from the great guys at mops.ca) and boy was I wrong. There's $55 I wish I'd spent a loooong time ago... Lucky I don't have anything sensitive...


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## Cypher (Apr 15, 2006)

Yep, I agree with Conix, get a wider tank, with all the live rock and what not that you'll be adding, a standard dimensioned tank will look too confined - and not leave much swimming space for any future fish or coral colonies to grow.



conix67 said:


> Also, get a deep tank (not height), shallow ones are easier to work with, since you'll need to get your hands down to the substrate quite often.


Yeah, Carmenh - that was my big mistake #4 - killed some of my fish and corals - hydrometer was reading normal, corals kept going down hill, I did all sorts of checks then finally went out and bought a refractometer - and found my salinity was the equivalent of the deadsea! Well, not quite but close. Yeah one thing that came from that mistake was discovering how durable damsels are. Gotta respect them for that.



carmenh said:


> +1 on the refractometer. I have been using hydrometers and thought I had a good idea what the salinity in my tanks was. But I just got a refractometer this week (from the great guys at mops.ca) and boy was I wrong. There's $55 I wish I'd spent a loooong time ago... Lucky I don't have anything sensitive...


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## ScoobyDoo (Feb 26, 2010)

Cypher said:


> Yep, I agree with Conix, get a wider tank, with all the live rock and what not that you'll be adding, a standard dimensioned tank will look too confined - and not leave much swimming space for any future fish or coral colonies to grow.
> 
> Yeah, Carmenh - that was my big mistake #4 - killed some of my fish and corals - hydrometer was reading normal, corals kept going down hill, I did all sorts of checks then finally went out and bought a refractometer - and found my salinity was the equivalent of the deadsea! Well, not quite but close. Yeah one thing that came from that mistake was discovering how durable damsels are. Gotta respect them for that.


okokokokokok i got it guys, refractometer! check !


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## ScoobyDoo (Feb 26, 2010)

should I buy this?
http://www.gtaaquaria.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12716

I just want the tank+stand, and maybe the powerheads


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## conix67 (Jul 27, 2008)

ScoobyDoo said:


> okokokokokok i got it guys, refractometer! check !


Make sure you get a "calibration solution" with your refractometer, unless it has been confirmed calibrated already.

I have both hydrometer and refractometer. I've never had problems with my hydrometer, although sometimes I need to make the needle thing loose completely before I can take reliable reading.


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## ScoobyDoo (Feb 26, 2010)

conix67 said:


> Make sure you get a "calibration solution" with your refractometer, unless it has been confirmed calibrated already.
> 
> I have both hydrometer and refractometer. I've never had problems with my hydrometer, although sometimes I need to make the needle thing loose completely before I can take reliable reading.


first i need the tank


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## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

ScoobyDoo said:


> HEY! I AM NOT DESPERATE! lol  I was at Big Al's myself and saw the 55g tank (like the one he is selling) for 239.99 not two days ago. So... ya lol


That's the 55, a bottom end canopy with single bulb, emperor or penguin filter, heater, etc


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## ScoobyDoo (Feb 26, 2010)

AquariAM said:


> That's the 55, a bottom end canopy with single bulb, emperor or penguin filter, heater, etc


coolllllllllllllllllllllll (sry i couldn't type just "cool" the site says UNACCEPTABLE)


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

If you're thinking of a bow tank, I'd suggest seeing one yourself in that size if you can. Bow tanks aren't for everyone - I certainly aren't a huge fan of them because of the optical distortion, but that's me.


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## Cypher (Apr 15, 2006)

^ +1 Yeah I don't like the distortion either. Check it out though.


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## ScoobyDoo (Feb 26, 2010)

seen both, both are ok with me.


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## ScoobyDoo (Feb 26, 2010)

I actually prefer the BOWs.

I want something like this, very very close to what I am looking for. Maybe minus the corals, until I have a better understanding of them.






also anyone know if the Longhorn-Cowfish every becomes available around here? I would really like one, after I am setup.


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## conix67 (Jul 27, 2008)

Besides the optical distortion, they are pain to clean, as curved glass makes it difficult to make full contact in many angles with cleaning blades.

The box fishes are considered not reef safe (I guess it's one of those things that varies from a fish to fish), so I assume you're planning on FOWLR or something close?

I've seen the cow fishes at Sea-u-marine frequently, although it's hard to say if they were exactly the same kind.


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## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

IMHO/E, it depends on where it's situated and "frequently viewed angles". Of course looking straight on and off ~45* looks fine 

The next PITA is the shape of the base area as it doesn't allow an optimal use of the space for a larger sump compared to a traditional rectangular base...if that makes any sense.


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## ScoobyDoo (Feb 26, 2010)

Big Ray said:


> the cowfish are really attractive, although belonging to family of box fish, when stressed they could release this chemical that will wipe out everything around it. read that on the net, so my friend decided to get one, and just add a skimmer. they eat corals, he got a really small one, and in less than 12 hours, it ate almost all his LPS corals ! removed it, and the LPS started growing again.
> 
> honestly, if you are not sure yet, keep reading, there is alot to learn and discover. see what fish you want, see if you even like corals, .... .


The toxic release is extremely rare. I know a few people who have one back in Florida, and they have been through some pretty rough situations where he goes all black almost (lol) and doesn't release it. I think there is confession on whether or not the toxin release is a defense mechanism or a stress release (IMO). As far as them eating other corals, I wont have any. As far as them eating other fish, from what I have read about them, it seems to be a problem when the Cowfish was the first fish and the dominant one of the tank, new comers will be fought off with vengeance !  hah

Im no expert, just some conclusions I've drawn from research/reading.


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