# Replacing Sump - doesn't fit through doors



## jkoot (Apr 17, 2012)

Need some advise.

I am looking to replace my current sump which is a marineland model 2. It has served it's purpose but I want to move towards a more traditional three chamber sump so I can have a higher water level, less micro bubbles and a refugium.

The problem is the centre brace won't allow the current sump to come out (I don't mind it coming out in pieces however won't solve the problem that the bigger sump I am looking at getting wont go thought the doors. (Hindsight is always 20/20).

The stand is a "standard pine stand"

Current idea is:
Can I drain the sump....detach and remove everything. Then drain the tank leaving sand rock and corals. Slide the tank onto some sawhorses with plywood on top (level to my current stand) but not all the way off. Grab the old sump and take it out, drop in the new one and slide the tank back. And refill immediately. With everything ready I am thinking total time empty less than 15min. 

Can the tank handle the pressure? I've read that people have done this. I also heard that it may not be the best idea.

I have also been told to knock out the center brace with the tank full and complete the swap and than reinstall. This scares me more. Or do I need to completely empty the tank of water rock and sand and start from scratch and pretty much start over


Really open to ideas, suggestions and even some help.

Thanks,

Jason


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## Y2KGT (Jul 20, 2009)

I would not remove the centre brace which could compromise the structural strength of the stand. I would however drain all the water in the tank but leave all the sand and rock assuming its not going to topple over when you move the tank onto the saw horses. 

That's the problem with the Pine Stand. They're really designed for canister filters and not a sump. The other problem you might run into is the inside height of the stand to accommodate some of the taller skimmers on the market. 

Good luck with your upgrade. 
--
Paul


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## Car2n (Jun 7, 2011)

Thinking out load here,,,
How about draining the tank leaving the sand/rock which would relieve most of the weight and then remove the centre brace?


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## jkoot (Apr 17, 2012)

I'll grab some photos of the brace.

I'm very nervous about messing around with the structural integrity of the stand. 

Also nervous about blowing out the bottom if I move it.

Rock is ceramic and light and most structure are epoxied to ceramic back walls that are silicones to the back glass. There is less than two bags of aragonite in the bottom

Tank is 90g, 48x18 footprint.


My current marineland 300 skimmer (which I will finally be able to replace if I get a new sump and the marineland sump only allows marineland skimmers.....*newbie mistake years ago listening to advice from BA's).....fits in my stand and it's pretty tall. But I am able to make it work.

jason


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## jkoot (Apr 17, 2012)

Here are some quick shots of the tanks and stand as it is now. (most recent pictures of tank, stand pictures I just took.....sorry its dirty on the inside....)

I really hope I don't have to do a complete tear down....removing rock, corals and sand as well to replace the sump.

Currently approx 100lb (dry weight) ceramic rock. Less than two bags aragonite.

Another thing is that all of my corals are attached to the rock work or epoxied.

I had an issue with my aquascape and when I redid it last year I epoxied most rocks together, and than epoxied most structures to the back rock wall (only two structures are not but have larger bases buried in the sand bed that I am hoping not to disturb to much).....the rock wall is siliconed to the back glass of the tank....it all equals to a major PITA if it all has to come out.


>jason


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## Car2n (Jun 7, 2011)

Here's another idea,
How about adding another "temporary" brace just like the one you have now to the side of the centre brace that would allow you to remove the centre brace. It looks like you just need to gain a few inches.
You need to temporarily pick up the weight, remove and replace the centre brace.


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## jkoot (Apr 17, 2012)

A fellow reefer PM'd me this link.

http://www.melevsreef.com/55g/55sump.html

However the center brace is different in this tank compared to mine.

Maybe I should try to reinforce the stand? Run some additional cross bracing and 2x4 or 3x3 (what I can fit in the corners) to help strengthen?


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## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

I bloody hate those stands and those ML filters just as much!

IIRC, the W/D section is removable. Call on J_T to build you a smaller profile section of the W/D and use it as a bubble trap box. That will give you a larger middle section. When that is built and ready to install, hacksaw the old section into removable pieces.

Just another perspective other wise I suggest a teardown to remove it safely as that centre brace is a PITA to replace if you don't have the tools to make a nice lap joint. IIRC, they use glue and brad nails so taking the brace out cleanly w/o damage to the top and bottom beams will be another challenge.


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## jkoot (Apr 17, 2012)

WTAC, Your correct that the bubble trap and skimmer sections are removable however there are no baffles, just channels and you need a really low operating water level.....horrible sump design; I don't think there is any fixing it.

I would much rather get a different sump.

This is probably the only sump design that would work for me without taking apart the tank or center brace.

Do you think this design is functional?

http://www.melevsreef.com/acrylics/sumps/side/sump_model_i.html

>jason


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## altcharacter (Jan 10, 2011)

My two cents:

Get a new tank/stand/sump and sell the one you have. This will save you a ton of stress and you won't be spending much more than you already have.

When I noticed a few things wrong with my 20g I just took note and said "ok, on the next tank I won't do this"

We learn from our mistakes and hopefully achieve what we want. There will always be something you want to modify or better about your tank but it's just a matter of doing it on the current tank or the next tank.

As for guys like Sig...well...


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## jkoot (Apr 17, 2012)

To be honest I go finally got the tank where I wanted it to be.....I'd hate to start over. 

I will get a new tank when I move in a few years. But I'm finally getting great growth and the system is healthy, it's just that the sump is a huge headache with my RO/DI system (at least that's what we suspect) and I cannot get a different skimmer as the current one only allows for marineland skimmers.


And the wife will not let me buy a new setup. The next tank will be different; but can't afford the huge swap now.

>jason


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## rickcasa (Dec 7, 2011)

Car2n said:


> Thinking out load here,,,
> How about draining the tank leaving the sand/rock which would relieve most of the weight and then remove the centre brace?


+1
I'd even consider leaving off the centre brace conpletely and just double up the front from behind it. You can add load bearing supports on both ends for peace of mind.


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## jkoot (Apr 17, 2012)

So your saying to add additional support and remove the centre completely and permanently?


>jason


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## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

+1 (Car2n and rickcasa) Glue (PL Premium) and screw...my back is just aching just thinking of the bodily contortion doing it without taking the DT off the stand.

Re: the link, it's very functional...with the space that you have in the cabinet, it's going to be a PITA to thin out the macroalgae.

IMHO, the centre brace is the main obstacle moving forward. Yeah, it's a royal PITA to remove and reinforce to carry the load but it will open up more options for you long term and it will be an easier system to access and maintain. IME, an easy system to maintain is a system that WILL get maintained on a regular basis and not feel like a dreadful chore. 

Time to rip that super sticky Band-Aid off that hairy leg...LOL!


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## jkoot (Apr 17, 2012)

wilson,  (or anyone else)

Where would you recommend adding additional braces? How can I support the front from the back?

I am trying to avoid looking at screws so I am going to do it from the inside......god this is gonna hurt......  lol.


>jason


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## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

I think the top beam is 4". You can get 1"x4" wood boards @HD, RONA and Lowes and laminate it using PL adhesive (glue) and screws. Spend the extra $ for hardwood like oak as it won't bend as much as soft wood. You can use pine 2x4's but it will be unweildly maneuvering it in the tight confines of the interior cabinet. 

Do you have any contacts that are into woodworking/carpentry? Vises, clamps that can be switched to "spreaders" will make this project go easier with the right tools.

A second pair of eyes and hands will be useful and the laughs will make it bearable .

Yeah...it's going to hurt...get some Robaxocet Platinum...I pop those things like candy on system revamp projects...LMFAO!!!


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## tom g (Jul 8, 2009)

*hey*

have u considered taking out the side carefully and sliding the tank out and in and then replacing the side so it looks as if u didn't touch anything ....
when I made my stand I made a side access ..
just a thought since moving is gonna be such a issue ,there is no support beams in the center of the sides


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## WiseGuyPhil (Jun 15, 2011)

My suggestion is much easier...

Your marineland should have a top insert that is removable (used for trickle/bioball setup). Can you confirm?

If so then use two small tanks. 20 Gal Tall with a 10 gal tall refugium. I can draw you a design one you confirm if your sump has the removable top. I would not remove the center brace.


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## fesso clown (Nov 15, 2011)

Great idea Phil. +1 on two tanks, one for the skimmer and return one for the fuge. It's also nice to be able to completely shut off the fuge for maintnance. No stand surgery that way either. I just did stand surgery with a full tank on top and it was nerve racking to say the least...


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## WiseGuyPhil (Jun 15, 2011)

Thanks Jeff. I have used this method to fix nagging issues on friends tanks. No headaches this way.



fesso clown said:


> Great idea Phil. +1 on two tanks, one for the skimmer and return one for the fuge. It's also nice to be able to completely shut off the fuge for maintnance. No stand surgery that way either. I just did stand surgery with a full tank on top and it was nerve racking to say the least...


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