# Effects of water changes vs treatment



## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

When I kept fish 40 years ago, I was in school. Never tested water, didn't even know I should have. Just aged the water before I used it. 95% of my fish lived long, most bred or spawned. Livebearers, barbs, angels, tetras, cory's, kuhli loach, aquatic and semi aquatic turtles. My new tank is 30G. I want to grow plants, have a few shrimp. I used that wet packed substrate for planted tanks, eco ?, suppposed to be loaded with good bacteria ? It's black. Added a small bag of fine black gravel, not dyed or coated, and some black sand, by the same maker as the eco stuff, as it seemed a bit coarse for shrimp. I thought the wet packed substrate was supposed to provide more or less instant cycling, but I didn't put anything in the tank aside from a sponge filter and corner filter [inside], and ran them. I waited a couple of weeks and kept testing the water every couple of days. Used Tetra Easy strips. Showed Ph high, close to 8, GH very hard, Kh pretty high, everything else zero. So I put some peat moss in there. Water's a bit yellow,but I can get rid of that with carbon later on. The Ph came down to about 7.3, Kh came down some too. I know, should have written the numbers down. sigh.. live and learn. But nitrite/nitrate/chlorine still all zero. Using Amquel and the same brand Water Conditioner. So a couple days ago, I added 3 bunches of stem plants and a pair of inch long gold danios, because I was not seeing any changes in the test results. This led me to think the tank was not cycling at all. Hadn't read about using pure ammonia to cycle with yet. Oh well. Day after the new additions, nitrite was up to .5. Tank was only 3/4 full, so I topped it off, using the Amquel, which said it removes nitrites. Dosed for the volume of the tank, minus some for the volume of gravel. I also put some ammonia remover filter pad stuff in the corner filter.

Next day nitrite remained at .5. The strips don't test for ammonia per se, so I got an API ammonia kit, and one for Gh/Kh also. Yesterday, the API test for ammonia showed .25. So I changed 1/4 of the water today, used Amquel and WC for new water only and tested again. Ammonia went down but not quite to zero. Easy Strip test showed nitrites up even higher after the water change. I am barely feeding the two little fish, and sieve out any bits I see them leave. So why is the nitrite going up, though the ammonia level seems to be lower, and why doesn't the Amquel remove the nitrite ? Are the Easy strips perhaps just not very accurate ?

I read a lot about the nitrogen cycle before I started this tank and I thought I understood it. But I must be missing something. I know shrimp can't tolerate nitrites, so I must have the tank stable before I dare to get any. Having read the sticky on Peel Region water, I'm now thinking I ought not to have bothered with the peat moss.

Being on disability, I don't have unlimited sums to invest in every test kit, but I really do want to grow nice plants and have some happy shrimp. Maybe one or two more very mellow tempered fish. Temps have been staying around 78 -80, without a heater, cause it's hot in here ! Hood has a 6500 K tube in it, which I plan to replace asap with something much brighter, which I plan to build myself.

Any advice or clarification of what is going on with the water chemistry would be appreciated so very much.


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## Symplicity (Oct 14, 2011)

Im confused ... you used the word "new" tank. 

Did the tank finish cycling? If not, then that explains everything. It can take weeks/months to cycle and stop leeching ammonia.


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

I would guess not.. as I said, the test values never really changed at all, until after I added the plants and fish. I was/am still, confused because I believed the substrate I paid quite a lot of money for, which claimed to be loaded with beneficial bacteria and packed in Amazon Black water, said cycling would not be necessary. I wish I had kept the bag it came in, but it is gone so I cannot check now exactly what it claimed, but that was what I thought it was supposed to do. Perhaps I misunderstood what it said, but, when none of the testing showed any changes I thought the tank was stable and ready to go.


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

Fishfur said:


> I would guess not.. as I said, the test values never really changed at all, until after I added the plants and fish. I was/am still, confused because I believed the substrate I paid quite a lot of money for, which claimed to be loaded with beneficial bacteria and packed in Amazon Black water, said cycling would not be necessary. I wish I had kept the bag it came in, but it is gone so I cannot check now exactly what it claimed, but that was what I thought it was supposed to do. Perhaps I misunderstood what it said, but, when none of the testing showed any changes I thought the tank was stable and ready to go.


I posted about this in another thread. Aquarium "Cycling" involves growing a large enough population of nitrifying bacteria to process fish waste.

Bacteria are living organisms. Hospitals and research centers keep bacteria samples under very specific conditions. Why do you think they would spend all that money on refrigeration if they could just put it in a bag and leave it on a shelf at room temperature for months?


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## Scotmando (Jul 10, 2011)

If you need nitrifying bacteria, I can rinse the filter media in my 55g African tank for you into a pail. I've done this many times before and it really works well for me.

I'm @ WC & Derry

PM or email to address below if interested.


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## splur (May 11, 2011)

Firstly, you still need to cycle eco-complete, the substrate just makes it quicker. Now you used eco-complete and put it in a tank with no ammonia source for a couple weeks. What you did was starve the nitrifying bacteria that was in the substrate, anything with a bioload you put in the tank now is just starting the cycle. I suggest you squeeze old filter gunk into your new tank to introduce bacteria again.

You should also be careful if you add anything with a larger bioload. I wouldn't worry about shrimp, but a large amount of fish or decaying matter can go over what your tank can handle. It's a careful balance between how much ammonia ends up in your tank, and how much the bacteria can convert it into nitrate.


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

I believe I see a light shining in the distance, however faintly . Thank you splur and solarz, and scotmando. So I'll get some nitrifying bacteria and that will help. But I'd still like to know, does using Amquel or like products actually remove nitrites from the water if used as directed ? Does the ammonia removing pad for the filter remove ammonia ? And how long should one expect to wait to see the effect from either type products ? Or is it just better to change the water when the test results indicate ? Oh, the joys of learning new skills.. but thanks much, I genuinely appreciate the help. And it makes perfect sense now I think about it, that the eco complete could have been lying around for who knows how long, which is no way to guarantee the viability of the organisms it contained when packed. Duh ! But I live to learn.


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## splur (May 11, 2011)

I wouldn't use any water treatment products... the way I see it is you're just adding more chemicals into your water. Natural is the way to go.

If your tank finishes its cycle, all you have to worry about is nitrate. Here's the nitrogen cycle in short.

fish waste -> ammonia -> nitrite (bacteria) -> nitrate (bacteria) -> plant consumption or water change

If you are removing ammonia with something, you are simply delaying the cycle. The bacterial colony in your tank responds to how much ammonia you have. If your tank is planted well enough (I fully suggest floating plants like frogbit or water lettuce on top of regular plants), then they will eat up the leftover nitrate which plants need anyways. Not only will your tank look nicer, you don't have to waste money on those chemicals. For now if your tank isn't moderately planted, just do water changes.


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

splur said:


> I wouldn't use any water treatment products... the way I see it is you're just adding more chemicals into your water. Natural is the way to go.
> 
> If your tank finishes its cycle, all you have to worry about is nitrate. Here's the nitrogen cycle in short.
> 
> ...


I have one nice bunch of ludwigia, two other smaller bunches, I don't recall the names offhand. Some floating, some planted, only been in a few days. I have not seen frogbit, know where I can get some ? I've had an offer of cuttings from someone with a planted tank but I don't know which ones yet, have to go see them. My two little danios seem quite content,very active, eating, chasing around the mopani and rocks. I must say, overall, I am not keen on using chemicals myself so I agree with you there, np.

And I think that light may be getting a bit brighter, thx for the simplified explanation of the cycle. So I should take out the ammonia pad, skip the Amquel, do water changes as needed ? I'm taking up the kind offer of a boost of nitrifying bacteria, asap.

Today's water test results. API Ammonia - between .25/.50. 
API Gh/Kh - Gh 196.9 ppm, seems very high to me ? Kh, 4 dKH. 
Ph around 7.2, Nitrite 1.0, Nitrate zero.

Do I need to do another water change today with these numbers,or can I allow nitrites to get higher still ? When I got the danios I knew there was a risk I could lose them. Now I know there was another way, wish I'd left the fish at the lfs. Live and learn, I guess.


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## acropora1981 (Aug 21, 2010)

Fishfur said:


> ! Hood has a 6500 K tube in it, which I plan to replace asap with something much brighter, which I plan to build myself.


This statement worries me. If you are going low-tech, ie, non CO2 injected - then do NOT use a "much brighter" light. You will simply aggravate yourself with dead plants and heaps of algae. You need to go either "low light, low tech" or "high light, high tech", but "high light, low tech" is an exercise in frustration. This is why you often hear people saying that plants were easier to keep when they were younger; we didn't have fancy lights. Everyone basically had a low light, low tech, which is why it worked.

Just want you to avoid that particular pitfall, as it is often quite frankly not emphasized enough, particularly by persons who work in stores with nice expensive fancy bright lighting systems for sale 

Your standard 6500k tube should work out very well for you. Keep it, try it, use it.

Also, you are overthinking the whole thing. Relax, let the cycle finish, stop adding Amquel (it prolongs the cycle). Stop worrying about exactly what the ph and KH are (most captive bred fish can tolerate a wide range of conditions).


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## george (Apr 11, 2009)

I found that Seachem Stability helped with speeding up the cycling of my tanks.


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

Fishfur said:


> Today's water test results. API Ammonia - between .25/.50.
> API Gh/Kh - Gh 196.9 ppm, seems very high to me ? Kh, 4 dKH.
> Ph around 7.2, Nitrite 1.0, Nitrate zero.


Looks like you're at the beginning of a nitrite spike. Unfortunately, there's nothing much to be done for your fish.

Unless you're keeping very sensitive species, you don't usually have to worry about gh/kh.


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

*Live and learn*

Well, if the dani's suffer for my mistakes, I will feel badly, but probably not lose a lot of sleep. I was thinking of going higher tech with plants.. not instantly, but with time. Money is always an issue, of course. I appreciate the warning, and realize there is a lot more to keeping high light plants in water than simply adding more light. It's not as simple as sticking my cactus under my light garden rig.

I am a bit of a gadget freak, so the idea of building a hood appeals to me and the more I read about the CO2 systems, the more fascinated I am with the whole thing. I am interested in growing some of the more demanding plants..again, not right away. There is always a learning curve, and I have lived long enough to know what happens when one tries to ignore the curve.

But I must admit, it WAS easier when I knew none of this, and kept my fish and turtles in high school and college. Though few of the plants lasted very long, as the inhabitants did them in, I never quit trying to grow the darn things. Just switched to the terrestrial sorts later on,..

All the advice is very much appreciated, I'm glad I found this place and joined up.


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## Scotmando (Jul 10, 2011)

I have frogbit if you need.


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