# Cycling Questions



## Shoryureppa (Jul 1, 2011)

I am setting up a new tank next week and was wondering if I can get some suggestions about cycling.

The tank will have a deep sand bed. Do I still do a water change after the nitrates begin to show?

I will be putting in dead rock that I dried under the sun. I will be seeding it with 50lbs of live rock. How long should I wait to add fish after the cycle?

Should I keep all the live rock in the display while cycling to colonize the dead rock?

How long should I wait for the rock to be completely colonized?

I'm looking forward to hearing your suggestions! Thanks for all the input


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## J_T (Mar 25, 2011)

IMO;

Set it all up. Rock, sand, salt water, skimmer etc, etc, etc. 

Some say run the skimmer, some say don't. For me, I run it! I don't want that "crud" lying around in the tank.

Wait till you see no nitrates. That is the indicator that the bacteria is now able to maintain the bio levels with just rock in the tank. That is the important part. It can handle just the rock!!!! Everything you add now, will trigger a mini cycle. So, don't drop 6 fish in and wonder why you have a tank full of algae!!!

The rock will take a very long time to completely colonize. More so, it needs to mature. Longer that has to take place, the more stable the tank later! So, how long can you wait?

Tempting to add a "durable fish" at this point. However, most of these fish are territorial, and better added later.

This is a subject that will get you all kinds of "opinions" But it has worked for me on many tanks that I have setup. Both mine, and other peoples.


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## cablemike (Jan 7, 2009)

Shoryureppa said:


> I am setting up a new tank next week and was wondering if I can get some suggestions about cycling.
> 
> The tank will have a deep sand bed. Do I still do a water change after the nitrates begin to show?
> 
> ...


Well i wouldn't do a water change until the cycle is complete because all your gonna do is stall the cycle from completing. And I would let it cycle completely before adding fish, keep testing daily and watch to see the ammonia,
nitrate, and nitrite peak and drop to zero. And after adding fish it may have another mini cycle but it will usually happen fast and won't stress the fish too much. The dead rock will take months to become live rock so just throw it all in together to get the process started. If you buy good quality cured live rock it could be cycled in a few days. If you use uncured live rock it may take as long as a month or more to complete the cycle. Just be patient . I would actually add a cleaning crew before the fish because your gonna have a diatom bloom after the cycle and possibly hair algae. After the cycle completes I would do a 25% water change, leave it for a few days. Test water again, if all is good add some snails and hermits, wait a week or so then begin to slowly add fish. No more then two a week.


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## 50seven (Feb 14, 2010)

Wait 2 weeks of zero ammonia and nitrites, before you add fish and you will be fine to add any fish you like, not just the "hardy" types. 

Also water changes are not needed at this point yet, especially anything as aggressive as a 25%. First water change can wait until a month after the cycle finishes. After that, every other week is good. Also anything more than 10% is really unnecessary. 

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## cablemike (Jan 7, 2009)

50seven said:


> Wait 2 weeks of zero ammonia and nitrites, before you add fish and you will be fine to add any fish you like, not just the "hardy" types.
> 
> Also water changes are not needed at this point yet, especially anything as aggressive as a 25%. First water change can wait until a month after the cycle finishes. After that, every other week is good. Also anything more than 10% is really unnecessary.
> 
> Sent from my HTC Magic using Tapatalk


25% is not aggressive btw, its the norm. I have a stack of books here to back me up. Its to replenish the water. During the cycle the water goes through hell and the purpose to to get everything back in check. I'm not a noob eh, I've been at this for 10 years and had several tanks with great success. You could have said it as "in my opinion" not with the attitude of don't listen to this guy, he doesn't know what he's talking about.


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## 50seven (Feb 14, 2010)

cablemike said:


> 25% is not aggressive btw, its the norm. I have a stack of books here to back me up. Its to replenish the water. During the cycle the water goes through hell and the purpose to to get everything back in check. I'm not a noob eh, I've been at this for 10 years and had several tanks with great success. You could have said it as "in my opinion" not with the attitude of don't listen to this guy, he doesn't know what he's talking about.


Didn't mean it that way... I could have worded it differently 

It is my personal opinion, which I have practiced for over 2 years, is that water changes are often overrated in a SW tank, especially with noobs just coming in from the freshwater end of things, who nuke their tanks by doing huge WC's that they are used to. Yes it can be beneficial if done properly, but I have never had success with it, rather the opposite. I found that I got more growth and health after cutting back on my wc's after the idea was suggested by someone else with many years of commercial experience.

Yes it's just my own 2 cents...  glad you have good experience the other way.

It's the massive 40-50% WC mentality that the freshwater people have, that's what I was trying to make a strike against. Not the practice of an experienced reefer. 

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## cablemike (Jan 7, 2009)

50seven said:


> Didn't mean it that way... I could have worded it differently
> 
> It is my personal opinion, which I have practiced for over 2 years, is that water changes are often overrated in a SW tank, especially with noobs just coming in from the freshwater end of things, who nuke their tanks by doing huge WC's that they are used to. Yes it can be beneficial if done properly, but I have never had success with it, rather the opposite. I found that I got more growth and health after cutting back on my wc's after the idea was suggested by someone else with many years of commercial experience.
> 
> ...


Yeah I'm just one of those over cautious people that follows my books to a t. But it has worked thus far so I figure the authors must have known what they were talking about.
The only time I've had issues when when I start to slack on my weekly 10% water changes. In my last large tank I got lazy because I had a ton or algae growing in my sump and figured it would keep it clean ( old freshwater thinking) but I forgot about the elements getting depreciated. Well my tank started to crash as all the sps and Lps were 
Consuming the talk and calcium at such a high rate and I wasn't replenishing it by doing water changes. Yeah I was dosing but I think dosing is meant as a supplement and the salt mix balance things out much better plus salt mix appears to have better buffers.
After I started doing water changes weekly my system came back on track.


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## J_T (Mar 25, 2011)

J_T said:


> This is a subject that will get you all kinds of "opinions"


Just thought this needed to be said again.

I wish everyone on this site would stop reading everything as an attack on them. Not just this thread, but others too!

Yes, we can put IMO in front of everything, but hell, if I am typing it, then it is MY thoughts, comments, advice, or whatever!

Community, lets help each other to live up to the word!


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## Shoryureppa (Jul 1, 2011)

Well said JT, also thanks for the tip on where to buy sugar sized sand!

Lastly, should I follow a lighting schedule or just leave the lights off until the cycle is finished?


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## bioload (Oct 20, 2009)

Shoryureppa said:


> should I follow a lighting schedule or just leave the lights off until the cycle is finished?


I've never bothered too much with lighting until I've started adding livestock. However, I do turn them on now and again when I'm around for asthetics.

What type of tank are you starting?


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## altcharacter (Jan 10, 2011)

I would just like to say every one of you offend me!!!! =P


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## Shoryureppa (Jul 1, 2011)

bioload said:


> I've never bothered too much with lighting until I've started adding livestock. However, I do turn them on now and again when I'm around for asthetics.
> 
> What type of tank are you starting?


I'm starting a reef tank, well I already have a 30 gal set up so I will be upgrading.

The reason I asked about the lights was because since there will be a sput growth of green hair algae, wouldn't it need the light tu further grow and consume the nitrates until it is depleted?


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## cablemike (Jan 7, 2009)

The advantage of having light is that your coraline algae will start growing sooner, but with all the nutrients in the water so will hair algae. I personally like using lights as I believe all that hair algae will consume the nutrients and help it cycle sooner. It will die off after all the nutrients are gone anyways, and if it doesn't that where a clean up crew comes into play. Either way your still gonna end up with cured rock in the end.


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## bioload (Oct 20, 2009)

Shoryureppa said:


> I'm starting a reef tank, well I already have a 30 gal set up so I will be upgrading.
> 
> The reason I asked about the lights was because since there will be a sput growth of green hair algae, wouldn't it need the light tu further grow and consume the nitrates until it is depleted?


Congrats on starting a new tank.....most exciting time for me.

I wouldn't worry about keeping the lights off.....or on IMO 

The "cycle" really never ends from my understanding, and nitrates will always be produced from nutrients being added to the tank. It's all about balancing what you put into the tank and what you take out. Nutrients can fuel nuisance algae in an established tank just as easily as a new tank.

I've normally waited until Ammonia and Nitrite are gone then add fish and CUC. Once your able to get your nitrates and phosphates under control (the stage I'm at right now) I'd start adding corals.

But then again I might be completely off base


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## Shoryureppa (Jul 1, 2011)

bioload said:


> Congrats on starting a new tank.....most exciting time for me.
> 
> I wouldn't worry about keeping the lights off.....or on IMO
> 
> ...


Thanks! , I'm crazy excited to get this tank going!

I agree with bioload about having the lights on and let algae consume the nutrients and just have them die off.


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

Shoryureppa said:


> Thanks! , I'm crazy excited to get this tank going!
> 
> I agree with bioload about having the lights on and let algae consume the nutrients and just have them die off.


Algae dying off would simply release the nutrients into the water once more. Now if you're talking about letting a trochus snail eat the algae, that's another matter.


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## Shoryureppa (Jul 1, 2011)

Ok so let me get this straight, 

cycle with live rock and dead rock.

Keep lighting schedule as normal.

Measure ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, phosphates.

when nitrates begin to rise, perform water change.

add trochus snails when nitrates are receding to consume the hair algae intead of algae dying off and releasing nutrients into the water.

Did I get that right?


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## 50seven (Feb 14, 2010)

Yeah, pretty much. You're not going to kill anything by following that plan for sure 

But a lot of it is just trial and error, and finding the middle road to a lot of advice you read.


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