# Opening a new aquarium store please help



## FJoftheH

hey guys im planning to open a new aquarium store in the gta and i want to get some information from you guys. What type of filtration system do u think i should use? Also do any of you know any reliable livestock importers? or maybe if you own or used to own a pet store can you give me some advise?


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## badmedicine

A new store in the GTA ?? FANTASTIC!! Where are you thinking of opening? What type of livestock will you keep, Salt or fresh or both?

Let us know when the Grand Opening is so we can attend.


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## Fishfur

Might as well open it in Mississauga.. we're getting to be fish central around here. 4 very good stores on Dundas within blocks, 2 of them superstores, and Finnatics is number 5, only 10 minutes north on Dixie, if the traffic and light's are on your side . If you're going to one, you're going to all of them.. why not add another ?

I'm only half kidding, those stores are all within minutes of me, my good fortune. But welcome and good luck. Retail is so competitive these days.


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## Kimchi24

honestly, filter it with sponge filters so that you dont have to worry about sick fish water getting into all of your tanks. This way people can be reassured for best stock.


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## solarz

Fishfur said:


> Might as well open it in Mississauga.. we're getting to be fish central around here. 4 very good stores on Dundas within blocks, 2 of them superstores, and Finnatics is number 5, only 10 minutes north on Dixie, if the traffic and light's are on your side . If you're going to one, you're going to all of them.. why not add another ?
> 
> I'm only half kidding, those stores are all within minutes of me, my good fortune. But welcome and good luck. Retail is so competitive these days.


We need more stores in North York! The only one we have right now is BA.



Kimchi24 said:


> honestly, filter it with sponge filters so that you dont have to worry about sick fish water getting into all of your tanks. This way people can be reassured for best stock.


Agreed. Menagerie does this very well.


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## altcharacter

I'm pretty sure you need to open a store in the beaches or just north of there.

I'm also hoping it's a reef shop but looks to be freshwater


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## tom g

*new store*

agree with dave ...east end towards beaches area ...
just make sure u have a great customer service for your patrons , treat them well and keep prices within market specs . and u will get repeat service .
my favorite store for me is advanced reef aquatica ,been there only a few times ,met flavio and he recognized me and remembered my name and was very helpful with some questions i had , hands down out of my way but deff worth the drive to milton to deal with him rather then be pushed aside and ignored 
cheers and good luck with store build .
tom


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## Bwhiskered

The best setup is a system where fresh tap water drips in and old water drips out and down the drain. They are getting a slow change all the time and no nitrate spikes. I have 8 30 gallon tanks set up this way and have the least trouble with them.


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## fishead

Contact me via PM and I can talk to you about suppliers. It will all depend on what type of set up you are doing. I have imported myself in the past and still talk to numerous exporters that I dealt with. 
As for set up and filtration keep it as simple as possible. No central systems. Great for breeding in a control closed environment horrible for importing fish.


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## characinfan

Agree with the east end, south of Finch (preferably south of Bloor!) Nothing in this area at all!

Oh yeah, there are lots of store fronts for rent along the Danforth, especially east of Donlands.

Easy subway access would mean lots of customers, even from farther away -- lots of people don't have cars.


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## CRJ

your best bet is call the local guys and talk to them. call chawn at the coral reef shop, and stace at aquariums by design. these two are probably the top contenders for A+ stores with fantastic inventory/fish. 

they will point you in the direction of suppliers and give you a est on cost. im sure they could help you out.


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## fishead

Finatics is an A+ store as well. Also Menagerie should be on that list as well.


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## John_C

*OH nice!!!*

Sponge filters, and lots of hornwort, and other fast growing plants to soak up the nitrate and ammonia... It's worked for my fishroom for yrs...

And Open it near Vaughan! Markham and Sauga gets all the good stores! Vaughan definitely needs a good aquarium store, housing more than just platies, and farmbred cichlids!


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## FJoftheH

lol forgot about this post.... lol didnt had enough money but still plan to open one in future. maybe in a few years.


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## kyle

Agree with Bwhisker for the drip system on freshwater set up cant speak for salt water.

If you want to go a little further add the sponge filters. You wont have to worry about power outtages with the drip system but maybe cut-off of water supply but you will have the sponge filters as back up.


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## UsAndThem

I Think there is more than enough space for another LFS beside Rivers 2 Oceans,Aquatic Kingdom , Dragon aquarium, Big Als and Mississauga aquarium  Cram em all into that little Plaza


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## Bwhiskered

In many ways it may be a good idea. A person can then visit a good number of stores in one location instead of having them spread all ove the GTA.There are many places where all the car dealers are all beside one another and it works for them.


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## TBemba

Look for a location with lots of parking. I can name several store that have less than 6 spots. Crowded plazas no where to park.

Keep it CLEAN, paint the concrete floors if you have them or wash the floors if you don't. Have less products on the floors. Try doing all the major maintenance before you open or after you close.(ie water changes) no one needs to hop over hoses. It's a liability nightmare.

Check all tanks before open for dead or dying fish. Get rid of them asap.

I know it smells but try to get something to get rid of that stench.

Air conditioning maybe? Something to make it so I'm not melting two seconds after I walk into the store. Maybe a dehumidifier would help?

Say hi and smile when I enter the store. Ask me if there is anything you can help me with.

If you have buddy/regular customers great but if I'm new just acknowledge that you see me and that I can ask you a question and am not bothering your conversation.

Have prices marked on your tanks! Ever other business does this, come on. Put the dam price list on the wall if you have to.

Website please have one but only if you are willing to update it.

Front page have location, hours, email always .

************ Most important **********************

This is a pet peeve

Get excel the software program, it's easy to use I'll teach you.

When new fish come in put it in excel like name of fish/product, price, quantity.

Link it in your front page in big bold image or text link.

If you want to but it on forums like this one please just put the link.

You can make the list a PDFs, meaning an image that can't be altered.

Great example is spencer jack. Here is the link http://cichlaholic.com/pdf/MARCH 2.pdf

This will cut down on people calling to find out what you have, so you are not interrupted while taking to customers at your store. You can update it and change it in minutes. You can cut and paste from other documents into excel.

The list that you cut and paste into your threads can also be done as easy into excel.

This is also a great way to keep track of what you have and what you have sold.

Get tanks in stock sell them almost at cost or at a loss. Why? Because once you have sold them a tank you have them buying stock and other equipment where you more than make up your money.

I might open a store and give away tanks for free and then give a 10% discount to people with my tanks.

The object is to get the customer, Them keep the customer.

Finally join the local aquarium society and donate stuff to them for their actions. Your target market.

If there is no aquarium society then create one. This gets all the fish heads in one spot and then by putting your name out to them at almost every meeting they will deal with you. Donations will tell them you're a good guy.

Free stuff or discounts for them being a member even better.


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## UsAndThem

TBemba said:


> Look for a location with lots of parking. I can name several store that have less than 6 spots. Crowded plazas no where to park.
> 
> Keep it CLEAN, paint the concrete floors if you have them or wash the floors if you don't. Have less products on the floors. Try doing all the major maintenance before you open or after you close.(ie water changes) no one needs to hop over hoses. It's a liability nightmare.
> 
> Check all tanks before open for dead or dying fish. Get rid of them asap.
> 
> I know it smells but try to get something to get rid of that stench.
> 
> Air conditioning maybe? Something to make it so I'm not melting two seconds after I walk into the store. Maybe a dehumidifier would help?
> 
> Say hi and smile when I enter the store. Ask me if there is anything you can help me with.
> 
> If you have buddy/regular customers great but if I'm new just acknowledge that you see me and that I can ask you a question and am not bothering your conversation.
> 
> Have prices marked on your tanks! Ever other business does this, come on. Put the dam price list on the wall if you have to.
> 
> Website please have one but only if you are willing to update it.
> 
> Front page have location, hours, email always .
> 
> ************ Most important **********************
> 
> This is a pet peeve
> 
> Get excel the software program, it's easy to use I'll teach you.
> 
> When new fish come in put it in excel like name of fish/product, price, quantity.
> 
> Link it in your front page in big bold image or text link.
> 
> If you want to but it on forums like this one please just put the link.
> 
> You can make the list a PDFs, meaning an image that can't be altered.
> 
> Great example is spencer jack. Here is the link http://cichlaholic.com/pdf/MARCH 2.pdf
> 
> This will cut down on people calling to find out what you have, so you are not interrupted while taking to customers at your store. You can update it and change it in minutes. You can cut and paste from other documents into excel.
> 
> The list that you cut and paste into your threads can also be done as easy into excel.
> 
> This is also a great way to keep track of what you have and what you have sold.
> 
> Get tanks in stock sell them almost at cost or at a loss. Why? Because once you have sold them a tank you have them buying stock and other equipment where you more than make up your money.
> 
> I might open a store and give away tanks for free and then give a 10% discount to people with my tanks.
> 
> The object is to get the customer, Them keep the customer.
> 
> Finally join the local aquarium society and donate stuff to them for their actions. Your target market.
> 
> If there is no aquarium society then create one. This gets all the fish heads in one spot and then by putting your name out to them at almost every meeting they will deal with you. Donations will tell them you're a good guy.
> 
> Free stuff or discounts for them being a member even better.


I Really like the cut of your Jib. Why don't you open a store ? sounds like you have it all figured out


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## TBemba

UsAndThem said:


> I Really like the cut of your Jib. Why don't you open a store ? sounds like you have it all figured out


Problem is I have known too many store owners and they all turn out surly After a few years.

I'm already more than half way there.

I also know too many hobbyists and how they think and act and that's what makes store owners surly.


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## Pruss

TBemba said:


> Problem is I have known too many store owners and they all turn out surly After a few years.
> 
> I'm already more than half way there.
> 
> I also know too many hobbyists and how they think and act and that's what makes store owners surly.


I've only ever been a hobbyist, never an LFS owner, manager or employee. But I've spent half my life in retail, and don't get the surliness of LFS operators.

The number one rule in retail is that the customer is king. How does this get warped, missed or manipulated in fish stores? I can count on less than one hand the stores in the GTA where I feel like I'm not a burden to staff, ownership or management. Would it really kill the business to build basic customer service training and standards into LFS operations?

It appears, to me, like at least part of the issue is chronic understaffing resulting in staff seeing customers as a burden, challenge or pain point. I wonder if another competing factor is the disparity in knowledge among the customer base... It must be challenging to have to switch gears from dealing with a hobbyist who has broad skills and knowledge to then pick up and deal with a customer who has never kept fish.

$0.05 in the bucket.

-- Pat


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## deepblue3

TBemba said:


> ************ Most important **********************
> 
> This is a pet peeve
> 
> Get excel the software program, it's easy to use I'll teach you.
> 
> When new fish come in put it in excel like name of fish/product, price, quantity.
> 
> Link it in your front page in big bold image or text link.
> 
> If you want to but it on forums like this one please just put the link.
> 
> You can make the list a PDFs, meaning an image that can't be altered.
> 
> Great example is spencer jack. Here is the link http://cichlaholic.com/pdf/MARCH 2.pdf
> 
> This will cut down on people calling to find out what you have, so you are not interrupted while taking to customers at your store. You can update it and change it in minutes. You can cut and paste from other documents into excel.
> 
> The list that you cut and paste into your threads can also be done as easy into excel.
> 
> This is also a great way to keep track of what you have and what you have sold.


This is a GREAT suggestion! I hope all the stores have read your post. Its spot on!


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## BillD

An LFS will always be a risky business, as it is driven by discretionary spending. When the economy slows or the dollar drops, like right now, people spend their money on necessities first.the best customer service won't help if people don't have the money to spend. Retail is the ultimate parasite. It adds nothing to the product but inflates it's cost. When you open a new store, it needs to take money away from existing stores to survive. The slice of the pie doesn't get bigger with a new store. As well, the growth of on line retailing which requires very little in terms of overhead compared to a brick and mortar store, needs to be overcome to survive. The on line stores carry only the light weight stuff that is easily moved. They don't handle the big and heavy like aquariums and, the difficult to ship, livestock. So, this trend to buying on line to save a few bucks, (and we all love to save money) is helping to close LFS around the country. When they are gone, where will you get your fish and tanks? When the largest retailer of tropical fish in NA (Walmart) gets out of it because it isn't worth it, you have to wonder about the future of the hobby. Dry goods, take up less space, require no maintaineance, and is where the money is.


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## TBemba

I believe the brick and mortar stores are going the way of the dinosaurs.

Soon everything will be online like reef supplies or mops. There are several stores on the forum that are doing the online buying and shipping.

With more people getting comfortable using online stores and the price savings because they do not need a store front and staff.

You see the product in stock you see a real photo of the item and you place order and within days it's at your house. An example is Canada Corals. They have products shown and the "PRICE" 

They also can have customers walk into the physical store as well.

I think there will be more hobbyists like now that sell online from home and basement and then bigger places that sell online. Kijiji has really opened up the personal market. I heard somewhere they help sell millions of dollars worth a product a year.

People will get used to not actually having to see the livestock in person.


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## Pruss

TBemba said:


> I believe the brick and mortar stores are going the way of the dinosaurs.
> 
> Soon everything will be online like reef supplies or mops. There are several stores on the forum that are doing the online buying and shipping.
> 
> With more people getting comfortable using online stores and the price savings because they do not need a store front and staff.
> 
> You see the product in stock you see a real photo of the item and you place order and within days it's at your house. An example is Canada Corals. They have products shown and the "PRICE"
> 
> They also can have customers walk into the physical store as well.
> 
> I think there will be more hobbyists like now that sell online from home and basement and then bigger places that sell online. Kijiji has really opened up the personal market. I heard somewhere they help sell millions of dollars worth a product a year.
> 
> People will get used to not actually having to see the livestock in person.


This is an interesting consideration... I hope that your prediction doesn't come true, as I think that reality would strangle the in-flux of young/new fish keeping hobbyists.

Every time a company like Wal Mart pulls out of the fish business, our hobby shrinks. Think about how many kids are introduced to aquarium keeping and fish husbandry because of a sale at Wal Mart or PetSmart or some other mega-store. Heck, we can even put Big Al's in here.

While hobbyists like us (those who are interested and engaged enough to participate in online forums) might readily purchase stock, equipment and accessories online, from Kijiji, or personally from other hobbyists, I have to think that these outlets are less available to new folks entering the hobby.

New fish keepers don't know what they don't know, and need help answering questions. Fish stores and pet departments serve this need in a way which is more accessible to those few folks looking to start in the hobby.

Even specialty stores are less accessible to new fish keepers than fish departments in big-box stores are...

The death of the fish department, or big-box pet store, or fish mega store will mean the fading of our hobby as we just won't have the sheer numbers of newbies taking up aquaria.

-- Pat


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## TBemba

Today's kids do everything online or via electronics. Like it or not, I have witnessed teen girls texting each other in class while sitting next to each other.

Kids have friends online and talk to them that way. Like most of us we have built some sort of relationship with people we have never meet or may never meet. 

I can and get a lot of my fish information online. Forum, websites and YouTube videos.

Like it or not the world is getting smaller because of the Internet. Like minded people can meet and have discussions like this one. They can live next door or in a different country.

I can get fish from the usa , Germany, Japan or even BC.

I have access to information on more types of fish and products that a hundred stores could ever provide.

Our wants are many and today I see a picture of something I have never even imagined and I can then post a thread asking for information or someone to find it for me.

Ten years ago, I had only the limited ability to ask the LFS and it was the owners whim if they brought that product in.

Many expensive fish are too much of a risk example Discus. You can't find what you want. But online you can and did get into contact with a breeder.

Most people get into fish keeping from family or friends. The local clubs are drying up. You don't see young people at them. If there are young people it's a hobbyists kid.

Also many don't find this hobby until an adult.

I know I was in my twenties when I purchased my first tank. If my much older sister didn't have a tank when I was a kid it may never have crossed my mind.

I see many more young people at reptile expos. They even can charge a absurd amount for admission $10 per person.

I was at the Hamilton show and the hobby is very strong. Looking at the turn out. But 90% of the people were over 20 and of those people 80 percent over 40
So lots of old people.


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## Pruss

TBemba said:


> Today's kids do everything online or via electronics. Like it or not, I have witnessed teen girls texting each other in class while sitting next to each other.
> 
> Kids have friends online and talk to them that way. Like most of us we have built some sort of relationship with people we have never meet or may never meet.
> 
> I can and get a lot of my fish information online. Forum, websites and YouTube videos.
> 
> Like it or not the world is getting smaller because of the Internet. Like minded people can meet and have discussions like this one. They can live next door or in a different country.
> 
> I can get fish from the usa , Germany, Japan or even BC.
> 
> I have access to information on more types of fish and products that a hundred stores could ever provide.
> 
> Our wants are many and today I see a picture of something I have never even imagined and I can then post a thread asking for information or someone to find it for me.
> 
> Ten years ago, I had only the limited ability to ask the LFS and it was the owners whim if they brought that product in.
> 
> Many expensive fish are too much of a risk example Discus. You can't find what you want. But online you can and did get into contact with a breeder.
> 
> Most people get into fish keeping from family or friends. The local clubs are drying up. You don't see young people at them. If there are young people it's a hobbyists kid.
> 
> Also many don't find this hobby until an adult.
> 
> I know I was in my twenties when I purchased my first tank. If my much older sister didn't have a tank when I was a kid it may never have crossed my mind.
> 
> I see many more young people at reptile expos. They even can charge a absurd amount for admission $10 per person.
> 
> I was at the Hamilton show and the hobby is very strong. Looking at the turn out. But 90% of the people were over 20 and of those people 80 percent over 40
> So lots of old people.


I agree with you on almost all counts, TBemba.

The only place where my opinion differs is the importance of pet generalist and fish specific brick and mortar stores to the influx of new fish-keepers.

I'm glad to hear that the Hamilton show was well attended. But let's be honest here. Folks that attend auctions, join aquarium societies, surf the web for fish facts and information, and join aquarium keeping online forums are the exception and not the rule ... To put it another way, we're the AV Club, not the average VCR owner.

Anything that shuts the door on folks being able to buy a 35g setup for a couple hundred dollars limits the growth of future fish hobbyists.

I guess we'll have to wait and see.

-- Pat


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