# double red apistos vs bolivian rams



## dspin02 (Oct 6, 2010)

I want to get a trio, 1 male 2 feamle, of either doulbe red apistos or bolivian rams. I currently have zebra danios, harlequin rasboaras, and otos. I also plan on getting some yellow shrimp. just curious if anyone has a preference between the two, or if one would be better suited to the fish I already have. and if one species is better with shrimp than the other. also the tank is moderately/heavily planted, with more plants on the way potentially.

thanks.


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## dspin02 (Oct 6, 2010)

tested my water tonight, ph just below 8, 5 dkh, 10 dgh. im going to be adding pressurized co2 this weekend or next week, depending on when all the parts arrive, which should lower the ph a bit. are these parameters suitable for dwarf cichlids? i know their not ideal, but can they adjust? id really love to have a trio of double red apistos or rams. 

any thoughts on this and the previous post are welcomed, i need advice.

-Thanks.

Edit: could a moderator please move this to the cichlid forum, i wasnt really thinking when i started this thread, thanks.


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## bae (May 11, 2007)

Most apistos are harem breeders, so a trio will work, but rams are pair bonders, so a pair is better than a trio.

Bolivian rams are quite hardy fish, and will live and breed happily in Toronto tap water. Apistogramma cacatuoides and A. borelli are two apistos that also do well in Toronto tap water, which is similar to their native habitat.

It's almost impossible to keep small shrimp with fish, except possibly with otocinclus. The fish will eat the shrimplets, and may well kill the adults when they are molting and unprotected.


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## dspin02 (Oct 6, 2010)

cool, thanks for the all the info.


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## whenfishfly? (Feb 13, 2009)

As far as keeping shrimp with fish, outside otos, it is possible. I keep a couple apistos (agassizii), a bunch of tetras and danios with shrimp. Since your tank is planted, there should be plenty of places for adults to hide while moulting, many shrimplets will get eaten (I've seen it many times) but enough survive..

Now, all that aside. My experience may be worth nothing to you, your apistos or rams will be different and may hunt the shrimp, so just be careful.. Thats my 1 cent..


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## coldmantis (Apr 5, 2010)

I keep cherries with a guppy only tank, goldfish only tank, and swordtail only tank. all shrimp are uneaten except for the swordtail tank...


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

I've never been able to keep a harem of double red's (assuming you are talking about cacatuoides). Even in tanks with double the footprint of your own, once a male and female paired off, the other female would be bullied to death, unless I was able to pull her out.

I would suggest a pair of a.caca's would be more suitable for your tank. 

Bolivian rams, however, are quite passive. While they won't live in a true "harem", 3 will coexist. I would suggest, however, that for your size tank you will be safer, again, to only stock a pair of any dwarf cichlid. Even some of your true harem apistos, like agassizi, will be difficult to keep in a 33g.


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

whenfishfly? said:


> As far as keeping shrimp with fish, outside otos, it is possible. I keep a couple apistos (agassizii), a bunch of tetras and danios with shrimp. Since your tank is planted, there should be plenty of places for adults to hide while moulting, many shrimplets will get eaten (I've seen it many times) but enough survive..
> 
> Now, all that aside. My experience may be worth nothing to you, your apistos or rams will be different and may hunt the shrimp, so just be careful.. Thats my 1 cent..


It may have something to do with what exists already in a tank.

For example, I have kept a pair of a.panduro in a 20g with cherry shrimp with no problem. They shrimp were there first and continue to multiply.

On the other hand, I bred cherry shrimp as live food for my other apistos, who would waste no time hunting them down.

You take the chance!


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## dspin02 (Oct 6, 2010)

thanks for the advice on the dwarf cichlids, i think im leaning towards a pair of double reds (yes cacatuoides). and the shrimp will be going in this weekend so maybe the cichlids will leave them alone as they will be going in later.


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

If you want to add a shrimp that I have never had any problems with in conjunction with dwarf cichlids, try amano shrimp. I still have some in my 65g I got like 5 years ago that have been housed with blue rams, various types of apistos, discus, angels etc. etc.


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## Greg_o (Mar 4, 2010)

I've had an interesting experience lately.

Had cherry shrimp and angels together - no problems.

Added two pairs of appistos to the mix - no problems.

Added two pairs of CPO's and instantly the angels and appistos started going after the CPOs and cherrys. Had to move the cherrys and CPOs out for their sake.

I thought it was odd that after adding the CPOs the angels went after not only the CPOs, but the cherrys who they hadn't seem to notice earlier.


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