# Plant Sterilization



## theeyrietrainer (Dec 9, 2010)

I've been propagating some plants now for a friend's dart frog terrarium/vivarium. Nothing fancy, mostly just java moss and a couple of assorted plants that would do well in a humid environment but my main worry now is not knowing whether or not chytrid zoospores could be in my tanks. After looking around online, I've found three possible ways to kill any potential chytrid zoospores:

Raising the temperature to 32 C for at least 4 days
Use a bleach solution bath
Use a potassium permanganate bath

Not all of my plants would survive such high temperatures for so long, so unless anybody could tell me that they could then I would go ahead with this (in a fishless tank, of course).

I've heard that soft leaved plants like java moss are sensitive to even the slightest bleach solution and will die from the bath so I don't think I'd go through with this method, unless somebody can prove me otherwise?

So far from what I've read, people say dipping the plants in potassium permanganate seemed to do the trick without killing the plant at all. Does anybody have any experience with this compound? Where would I be able to purchase some of this?


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

So you are propagating plants for your friend and want to make sure that they don't have any fungus before the plants are introduced into the terrarium/vivarium?

As far as I know, the fungus is a parasite and requires its host (namely frogs) to grow, correct? If you do not have any amphibians in your aquarium, then naturally, there should not be any fungus on your plants and they should be safe to give to your friend.

You are correct in assuming that your plants will not tolerate 4 days at 32 C. However, you may be able to keep them at slightly lower temperatures (say 29-30 C) for the same duration of time.

Finally, for potassium permanganate, it is quite difficult to get, but I know some users (including myself) that have some. It works quite well, but it is difficult to work with (as it is a powerful oxidizer and should really only be used by someone with experience; in addition, it stains everything purple).


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## Anoobias (Feb 16, 2012)

+1 on KMnO4 being a bit dangerous. It WILL cause fires if not handled properly, don't believe me? Mix some with glycerine and get the fire extinguisher. It can be obtained as pellets for drinking water treatment at an outdoors store like LeBaron or Sail, or in giant crazy you don't need this much quantities from Canadian Colors (local chemical supply). 

I would expect that a glutaraldehyde bath should be effective as well, but have no experience with chytrid.


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## theeyrietrainer (Dec 9, 2010)

Darkblade48 said:


> As far as I know, the fungus is a parasite and requires its host (namely frogs) to grow, correct? If you do not have any amphibians in your aquarium, then naturally, there should not be any fungus on your plants and they should be safe to give to your friend.


Yes, but the zoospores can live for long extended periods of time on plants and potentially fish, waiting. It mostly occurred to me when I was moving places two weeks ago; I typically drained half the tank and put seran wrap on the top before transport. In the few hours between draining and getting to the new place and setting up everything, I noticed that a white, fuzzy fungus was growing on the humid, exposed parts of the tank (like an exposed airtube). To be safe, I don't want to take any chances.



Darkblade48 said:


> Finally, for potassium permanganate, it is quite difficult to get, but I know some users (including myself) that have some. It works quite well, but it is difficult to work with (as it is a powerful oxidizer and should really only be used by someone with experience; in addition, it stains everything purple).





Anoobias said:


> +1 on KMnO4 being a bit dangerous. It WILL cause fires if not handled properly, don't believe me? Mix some with glycerine and get the fire extinguisher.


Haha, yes, I'm familiar with the difficulty in acquiring KMnO4 and it's dangers - especially to gummy bears.  I've only briefly dealt with KMnO4 in the lab, since there is never a need to work with it.



Anoobias said:


> It can be obtained as pellets for drinking water treatment at an outdoors store like LeBaron or Sail, or in giant crazy you don't need this much quantities from Canadian Colors (local chemical supply).
> 
> I would expect that a glutaraldehyde bath should be effective as well, but have no experience with chytrid.


Hmm, I didn't know that. I know a lot of water treatment tablets/pellets don't only contain oxidizing agents such as KMnO4 though, so would they still work in the same way and also not harm my plants?

Isn't a glutaraldehyde bath basically excel or is it something else? Would you mind telling me more about it, please?

Thanks for your help, guys!


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## Anoobias (Feb 16, 2012)

Well A glutaraldehyde dip is simply that, dip the plants for 10 seconds or so in a solution of glutaraldehyde (same as treatment for algae that some people do). A bit of googling and I did find that a 2 % solution is sufficient to kill all pathogens, see page 49 and also section 7.7 of the paper in the link below. Keep in mind the context of the article however (Emergency decon of aquaculture facilities) as its methods use a BIG hammer to beat back pathogens. Glutaraldehyde is a disinfectant , but of course in our circles it's Flourish Excel. If you haven't used I suggest a bit of googling, it can cause some plants species to melt (Vals, blyxa) Hope this helps.

http://www.daff.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0008/617183/decontamination-manual.pdf

Oh, and the pellets, well that's a case of buyer beware I guess. If it has ingredients that aren't on the label not really any way to know. However unless they are proprietary then they must be listed on the MSDS for that product and that can be found on the net usually.


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

There's a chemical company in Mississauga that will sell you Potassium Permanganate. You must first sign a form stating you will not sell or distribute it after you buy it, and the smallest amount they'll sell is far more than you'd need, but if you want to be sure it's pure and has no other chemicals in it, they do sell it. I was going to get some, as I'm finding all sorts of things come in with plants, like Hydra, among other things. Even if I rinse them really well or soak them in a salt bath for awhile, I still find hitchhikers. I'd wear gloves and old clothes and be very, very careful with it, but will kill off most organisms that hitchhike on plants.


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## theeyrietrainer (Dec 9, 2010)

Fishfur said:


> There's a chemical company in Mississauga that will sell you Potassium Permanganate. You must first sign a form stating you will not sell or distribute it after you buy it, and the smallest amount they'll sell is far more than you'd need, but if you want to be sure it's pure and has no other chemicals in it, they do sell it. I was going to get some, as I'm finding all sorts of things come in with plants, like Hydra, among other things. Even if I rinse them really well or soak them in a salt bath for awhile, I still find hitchhikers. I'd wear gloves and old clothes and be very, very careful with it, but will kill off most organisms that hitchhike on plants.


Perhaps we can split some since I'm sure the smallest amount will be more than enough to suffice the both of us. Or even get a small group of people to split it? Haha, my labcoat has had worse stuff splashed on it.


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## Anoobias (Feb 16, 2012)

I am going to be in my office tomorrow, I will see if we have any PP. we get it by the drum for treatment of contaminated groundwater. If we do I will grab a bit. It will either be KMnO4 or NaMnO4 (which is liquid). I am pretty sure we will have a bit somewhere. Will post here if I scrounge a bit.


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

That would be cool. I'd hate to sign a form swearing I won't redistribute the stuff and then turn around and do just that ! I gather it's been used for some less than legal purposes, which is why it's become harder to find and there are more rules about acquiring it. I even get asked questions now when I go to buy a gallon of isopropyl alcohol, which I use as a pesticide for some of my terrestrial plants that can't take treatment with horticultural oil. Nothing's simple any more !


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## Bwhiskered (Oct 2, 2008)

I have used the bleach dip for plants which is a 5% solution made by putting 50mm of bleach in a litre of water. For delicate plants like mosses dip for 5 to 10 seconds and then rinse in cool fresh water. For tough plants like anubias up to 30 seconds. Java Fern does terrific in terrariums and so do many crypts.


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## characinfan (Dec 24, 2008)

I bought some KMNO4 at an Eastern European pharmacy on Pape a while back. It used to be used for treating infections, especially STDS (confirmed by my retired MD relative) and, believe me, I got weird looks when I looked so excited to find it.

Regarding chytrids, some species have spores that survive quite well when not on the hosts.


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## Anoobias (Feb 16, 2012)

characinfan said:


> I bought some KMNO4 at an Eastern European pharmacy on Pape a while back. It used to be used for treating infections, especially STDS (confirmed by my retired MD relative) and, believe me, I got weird looks when I looked so excited to find it.
> 
> Regarding chytrids, some species have spores that survive quite well when not on the hosts.


LMAO! Turn the red bumps brown and your frown upside down.


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

Anoobias said:


> LMAO! Turn the red bumps brown and your frown upside down.


Nearly spit out my food while reading this...


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## chinamon (Jun 16, 2012)

im picking up some new moss tomorrow and would love to make a potassium permanganate solution/dip for the moss but i dont know how much to mix with water. my dad (being a pharmacist) has a jar of this stuff that i can use.

is this solution better than using a bleach solution?


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

Here are a couple of sites with information on using PP as a plant dip. It used to be used for various fish problems as a medicine too, but not so much these days. 

Under no circumstances should it ever be used to dip any Valisnerias, it will melt them beyond saving. PP is a strong oxidizer, as is bleach. Improperly used it can do a lot of damage, but then again, so can bleach. We are just more used to bleach. 

If the dip solution is made too strong, with either bleach or with PP, it will likely kill the plants, so be careful. For PP, 1/8 tsp in a bucket is plenty, you don't want the solution to turn blue. It should be no darker than medium pink in colour. Don't wear anything you value, it stains badly. Don't breathe the dust ! BUT, it does kill snails and snail eggs and many other unwanted parasites and hitchhikers as well as some types of algae. So far as I know, most mosses can tolerate it.

Just out of curiosity, any chance you'd be willing to sell a bit of that PP ? I've been looking for some, to use a plant dip myself and it's hard to find these days.. A small amount lasts a really, really long time in the dry form, though once mixed with water it is sensitive to light and air and won't keep beyond a few months. If you keep it mixed up, should be in a dark bottle kept cool and in dark cupboard.


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## chinamon (Jun 16, 2012)

Fishfur said:


> Here are a couple of sites with information on using PP as a plant dip. It used to be used for various fish problems as a medicine too, but not so much these days.
> 
> Under no circumstances should it ever be used to dip any Valisnerias, it will melt them beyond saving. PP is a strong oxidizer, as is bleach. Improperly used it can do a lot of damage, but then again, so can bleach. We are just more used to bleach.
> 
> ...


hmm i think i will just avoid dipping my moss in it then since the moss will be purchased from frank so it is a little more pricey than the typical java moss. i sent you a PM.


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## characinfan (Dec 24, 2008)

Fishfur said:


> For PP, 1/8 tsp in a bucket is plenty, you don't want the solution to turn blue. It should be no darker than medium pink in colour. Don't wear anything you value, it stains badly. Don't breathe the dust ! BUT, it does kill snails and snail eggs and many other unwanted parasites and hitchhikers as well as some types of algae. So far as I know, most mosses can tolerate it.
> ....
> A small amount lasts a really, really long time in the dry form, though once mixed with water it is sensitive to light and air and won't keep beyond a few months. If you keep it mixed up, should be in a dark bottle kept cool and in dark cupboard.


All true.



> Just out of curiosity, any chance you'd be willing to sell a bit of that PP ? I've been looking for some, to use a plant dip myself and it's hard to find these days..


Sure. PM me if interested.


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## RevoBuda (Sep 3, 2011)

I've had success using a chlorine solution.

I fill the bucket with 2 litres of water and drop 10% worth of chlorine in the bucket. I leave the plant submerged for 15 minutes in this solution. After 15 minutes, I rinse the plants, clean the bucket and fill the bucket with clean water. I leave the plant in the bucket with the fresh water for 24 hrs and then I rinse again before putting it back into the tank. 

I doubt the mosses would do well with this though... 

I have had great success with this with all other plants, sometimes a part of the plant may melt, but it grows back perfectly afterward.


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