# Goldfish and koi at Evergreen Brick Works: invasive species and cruel behaiviour



## characinfan

I volunteer at the Evergreen Brick Works. The old brick works and quarry are in the process of being transformed into a naturalized area. Several ponds are home to native fish (pumpkinseed sunfish) and turtles (snapping turtles), but also to invasive species, mostly goldfish and koi and red-eared sliders. There are signs by the ponds warning the public not to release unwanted pets there because these introduced species outcompete the native species and damage the environment.

The goldfish are doing well, growing fat and reproducing. They already outnumber the pumpkinseeds by a large margin. Aside from the fact that they are invasive, they're very nice fish.

So this really made me angry: some time late last week, someone caught a large goldfish (about a foot long) and tethered it to a bullrush using a shoelace strung through its mouth and gill. The fish was having trouble breathing, and was probably in pain. (There are also herons, night herons, egrets and raccoons around, making this fish into potential prey). I untied it.

WTF? If you want to keep a fish for yourself, bring a bucket!

I am going to check if there is a policy about catching goldfish at the Brick Works. Probably it would be discouraged, because people might see it as an invitation to take the sunfish as well, which would be illegal. On the other hand, if someone were to take goldfish home as pets, it would be far better than this kind of cruel behaviour.


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## solarz

I am amazed at this guy's ingenuity!

As for cruelty, how is this crueler than putting the fish in a bucket and causing it to die slowly of asphyxiation, overheating, or ammonia poisoning? You're comparing being hung up by your wrists to being put into a gas chamber.


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## characinfan

Uh. . . you take the bucket with the fish in it home, and put the fish in your tank?


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## bigfishy

how about catching turtle?

I know BW has an albino RES somewhere!


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## solarz

characinfan said:


> Uh. . . you take the bucket with the fish in it home, and put the fish in your tank?


Obviously, whoever caught this fish couldn't take it home right away. So leaving it in a bucket on a hot summer day would have been way worse than this.


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## characinfan

For the record, I'm not advocating keeping fish in a bucket indefinitely! Tying this fish up was cruel and left it exposed to predators. Whoever wanted it should have either come prepared to take it away or left it alone until he/she was prepared to take it away.


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## flagtail

So what's the consensus of fishing at the BW?

I need some goldfish for the pond!


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## Darkside

From an environmental standpoint the fish should probably just be destroyed the same as any other invasive species caught in Ontario.


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## trailblazer295

flagtail said:


> So what's the consensus of fishing at the BW?
> 
> I need some goldfish for the pond!


My thoughts exactly actually. I have a plenty of space and have been looking for more fish for the summer.


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## Sameer

Wont the koi and gold be dead during winter? Form the looks of it, those ponds arent very deep.


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## trailblazer295

3-4 feet deep and enough water movement to keep an open place for gas exchange and they will be fine. They 'hibernate' during the winter, go into almost catatonic state. When the temperature drops below 15C their metabolisms start to slow down.


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## iBetta

yep, what trailblazers says it's correct. most ppl say it should be 6 feet deep to be on the safe side, but mine is 4 feet deep and all my fish have successfully overwintered .


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## AquaNekoMobile

solarz said:


> Obviously, whoever caught this fish couldn't take it home right away. So leaving it in a bucket on a hot summer day would have been way worse than this.


Stuff happens. Perhaps the person that caught the goldie had a bucket but someone nicked it from them. When I first read the post before logging in I was wondering what a bullrush was. I kept thinking the goldie was hanging on a string out of the water on some branch (one foot goldie is heavy) like some sprung hanging traps I've seen in survival books.

Did a quick google to see what a bullrush is and the photo looks like a cattail. Nice technique on keeping the fish alive. Have to remember that one for the survival skills.


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## trailblazer295

iBetta said:


> yep, what trailblazers says it's correct. most ppl say it should be 6 feet deep to be on the safe side, but mine is 4 feet deep and all my fish have successfully overwintered .


I've never read 6 feet before but it also has a lot to do with where you live. More about being well below the frost line so it doesn't freeze solid.


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## Ciddian

I wanted to do a survey at the brickworks to look into what numbers of what lived there. I noticed maybe last year the goldfish seemed to be in a lower number but I haven't been by this year.

I love that place.. I used to play in the back when it was just a large empty pit riddled with bricks... I used to always wonder what sat rusting away in that factory. I was sooo pleased to see them keep some of the old machinery..

but.. back on point. You guys need to be a bit more understanding, who knows if that person would be back for that goldie. I would totally be worried for that fish because there are lots of fish birds and the sort.. ehh.. would make me feel bad.

I have seen people fish there, I would love to do a cray net but I am unsure of the rules. I chatted with a security guy there before and he mentioned that you could fish, but you couldnt remove animals from the ponds.

Not sure if things have changed? Sure are a hell of a lot of RES there.


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## trailblazer295

To bad we can't catch the goldies. They weren't supposed to be released but when they are then they can't be legally caught and placed in a private pond.


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## Zebrapl3co

Too many possibilities. Maybe some dumb ass thinks that's how you leash a fish and wants it as a pet. It's a good thing you came along.  Don't fret over it too much. We live is a cruel world. Just be glad that you were there and you made a difference.
As for the 4ft, 6ft thing. It should be 6 ft. It's mostly 6ft for the rest of Canada. But in GTA we can get away with 4 ft most of the time. Remember that snow storm we had almost a decade ago? Almost all the koi keepers with 4 ft pond had %90 death rate. Defroster ring don't work very well under -40C, not to mention the power outage. And you won't know if they survive or not until the pond melts close to spring.

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