# Adventures with angelfish fry



## df001

So, I figured since a few people have asked me to keep track of my experiences with this batch of angel fry I'd create a separate thread so as not to clutter my tank-journal.

I acquired the breeding pair of Koi Angels at the PRAC auction, 
In quarantine, they started breeding after a week, and basically have laid eggs every two weeks since.

the last batch in the 65g community made it to wigglers before becoming food, so when I came home and saw an amazon sword leaf covered in eggs, (about 180 or so), with a empty 10 gallon, with cycled filters, I figured why not give it a try, the worst that happens is I fail.

So timeline to date:

Discovered eggs Sunday December 9th and placed them in the 10g running a sponge filter, heated to 82f, and methylene blue.

Eggs hatched some time monday - noticed wrigglers when I came home.
tuesday - acquired live cultures from Scotmando - thanks again - eggsacs are greatly reduced, wigglers are incredibly active. wont be long before I need to feed them!

Caveat - I've only raised corydoras before, so this is a new adventure - constructive criticism is gladly welcome, I'm sure I'll make (more?)mistakes along the way, so if you see me about to screw-up big-time please let me know.

With any luck I'll be able to raise em successfully. Thanks in advance for any pointers.


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## BillD

When they start to free swim you start to feed them. this usually occurs around 7 days from hatch, if I remember correctly (it has been a while). At this point i will have reduced the amount of of Methylene Blue to almost none, with 80% daily water changes, although I use a smaller tank. From there it is several daily feedings of BBS (preferred) or microworms and daily water changes, keeping the tank as clean as possible. The fry grow very quickly, if well fed, and as they grow the amount of water changed needs to be increased. I generally don't introduce flake until about 4 or 5 weeks. You will have to gauge when the fish need to be moved to a bigger tank but it will probably be by the 3 to 5 week mark. Good luck with them.


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## Zidartha

Sounds like a fabulous experience. Would love to see some pics if you can!


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## df001

So a huge developmental step, we can clearly see the eyes today, looks like a few are free swimming with not much of their eggsac left. 
Interestingly it looks like many of the wrigglers are attached to eachother? I'm assuming this is the egg skein remanents from when they were laid, and as they develop strength to swim, they'll tear away? There are groups as small as 3 and as large as 10.

I'm slowly swapping out the methylene blue water with 50% waterchanges using airtube from the display tank

I added a few clumps of java moss, i know the meth blue will do a number on it, but i'm hoping it will make the fry happier having the cover.

I'll try to take a photo tomorrow, and possibly with the dslr over the weekend.


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## DaFishMan

Congrats on the fry !


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## df001

*Houston, we have lift-off*

And today we've got free-swimmers!
Was having a hard time taking good pictures so I made a short video showing the fry while I blather away. 2 min 8 seconds of your life you'll never get back:


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## Zidartha

Great video! Keep 'em coming please. Would love to see the development.


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## DaFishMan

Nice nursury setup. You're on the track to success by the look of it 
One suggestion to use a charcoal pack to remove the meth blue.


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## bob123

From past experience you need to feed baby brine shrimp first as banana worms are to large for angel fry to eat, you could also feed micro worms as this is small enough for them. Good luck and enjoy the experience.


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## df001

bob123 said:


> From past experience you need to feed baby brine shrimp first as banana worms are to large for angel fry to eat, you could also feed micro worms as this is small enough for them. Good luck and enjoy the experience.


Are you sure you have that right? every source i've seen and personal observation side by side is that microworms are way bigger than banana worms - from smallest to largest banana -> walter -> microworms.

thanks, so far so good its been fun, cant wait to compare in a few days/weeks.


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## df001

*oops*

So the fry are taking the worms with relish, which is good. What's a total pain in the butt, is I didnt even think about the holidays... Its become a tradition to spend new years eve at the cottage.

if I fed them just before leaving on the 30th (mid-day) had someone stop in in the evening on the 30th, once on the 31, and once on the 1st (we'd be back evening on the first) they should be okay? its not like they'd be missing regular meals for too long.


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## nightowl1350

Congrats on the spawn. After a day or two of microworms you will need fresh hatched bbs or even decaps, but they would prefer live food. As mentioned above many w/c are in your future. I did a w/c after every feeding when I had the time, but daily min will work.
Keeping the lights on 24/7 will keep the fry off the tank bottom so they don't sit on the bottom and destroy their tiny fragile fins when they first pop out. It will be great fun watching them change from guppy like fry to tiny angles in about 2-3 weeks. Enjoy!


It may be better to skip the extra meals (only feed once a day) while you are gone unless they are willing to do a w/c as well. BillD????? would this be better


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## df001

Why switch to bbs? arent the micro-worms nutritious enough? iirc bbs lose huge amounts of nutrient value in a very short amount of time, decaps would be better from that standpoint if they'll take them

true to form, the parents have spawned again, spawn looks to be about the same size as the last one, we'll leave it alone as I REALLY don't need more fry... (read not enough space)

I've been doing a pwc about 20 min after each feeding, siphoning any waste off the tank bottom.


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## nightowl1350

After a few days they will be large enough for the BBS and I think they are more nutritious. I've never heard of anyone on the angel forums I'm on using microworms for more than a few days. 

When I was raising angels a few years back I only used bbs right from the first day. I'm sure someone else will chime in their ideas on the matter. I have used microworms for rams and they are much easier than making up bbs.


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## df001

*a few more minutes you'll never get back.*

took another video, two parts: 
First shows the parents engaging in wriggler care in the display tank, I guess they were pissed off I took their eggs, so they laid more, they hatched today during the day.

Second shows the fry-tank and more of me blahblathering along.






Thanks for watching!


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## Zidartha

*Link*

Another wow!

Great parenting shot! And the fry! I want one! Every day is Fry-Day!

I don't know how I'm going to get my fix when on vaycay!

k.


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## Zidartha

So how much have they grown?


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## df001

havnt abandoned the thread, just have no time atm due to the other crap going on. will update properly eventially i promise.

Short version - had a hard time getting the fry to feed, ended up losing most of them despite best efforts, have a few left, of which i'm sure most of them will be cosmetic 'culls'


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## bettaforu

I used a breeder box attached to the main tank first to hatch the eggs in with meth blue/airstone. Once the fry were free swimming, I fed them bbs (not worms of any kind) right from the start. They need a lot of protein to grow.

Once they were feeding good, I would syphon out the dead uneaten food off the bottom and added a snail for cleanup too. I transferred them all into a 2.5 gallon tank and added some moss too. It is funny how as they grow they get used to you cleaning their home...I would put the turkey baster in one end and they would all swim to the other end, so I could clean up that side and then swish them to the clean end so I could get the dirty end done.

I successfully raised 3 spawns of Pinoy Paraiba's. I was also extremely lucky to have found a pair of Pinoy Ghosts that were the MOST amazing parents...they not only raised their own to 1 quarter size babies, but another Angel's fry at the same time as theirs. They didn't know the difference. What a cool set of parents they were  hard to find this type of Angel as most will eat their eggs and fry.

I heard if you add some salt to the tank it will stop them from laying eggs.


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## nightowl1350

Once you have a pair nothing will stop them from spawning. Keeping the fry with the pair will lengthen the time between spawns, but not stop it. Adding salt will do nothing.


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## aniroc

My pair of koi angels successfully raised one spawn in a 38G planted tank. That was 7 months ago, and it was their fifth attempt. I fed them BBS starting 24 hours after free swimming (twice a day, sometimes three times). After 5 weeks I had to move them to a larger tank because juvies (124 all healthy) were eating the slime coat off parents fins and that made the daddy almost losing his anal fin.
Weird tho, they don't seem to do it again, the most the fry last is 10 days into free swimming before they are eaten by parents (daddy, I suspect).
I have a spare 10g and a cycled sponge filter or methylene blue (not both!), just not ready to do multiple water changes, syphon the bottom and all that. Hatching BS eggs is enough headache.


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## Zidartha

aniroc said:


> After 5 weeks I had to move them to a larger tank because juvies (124 all healthy) were eating the slime coat off parents fins and that made the daddy almost losing his anal fin.


How many of the 124 survived?


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## aniroc

ALL! I did not see a dead fish...Maybe they died when they were fry and they were eaten by the parents. I did not know how many I had untill recently (could not count..). I still have 38 of them left in a 75g tank. 7 months old. And free swimmers as of yesterday in the 38g...


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## nightowl1350

If you want to raise more angles remove the fry after the first week. Put them in the 10g with a seeded sponge filter. If you don't want the whole spawn only take 100 or so and put them in the 10g. They won't last the more than a month or so in a 10g. Even 100 angels will soon need more grow out space than your 10g.

Dad may remember what a PITA the fry were, eating their slime coat and won't let them get that big.


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