# Crash.



## Windowlicka (Mar 5, 2008)

Well, our 50G breeder tank was going fantastic - lots of SPS growth and stunning colour, LPS were looking awesome, fish/inverts were all healthy and co-habiting peacefully, copepods were breeding like crazy in the sump. Parameters were holding beautifully, no parasites/nasties (well, aside from one zoa-eating nudi we found, but we transferred him to the sump - shame really - he was VERY pretty to look at!) - things were going great.

Until this weekend.

We went camping on Friday night, returning home yesterday evening. When we came home, we immediately noticed that the hardwood flooring in the lounge was damp (not a lot of water, but then it really doesn't take much for damage to start).

Then we looked at the tank... through the motionless, cloudy water, we noticed that EVERYTHING was dead. Everything.

It appears we had a double-whammy catastrophe - firstly (and I think the primary reason) was that the MaxiJet 400 powerhead feeding the Phosban reactor was grinding like crazy - I went to unplug it immediately and got a heck of a 'wallop' from electricity leaking from the plug (my hands were dry at this point). 

I'm no electrical engineer, but (and despite having a titanium grounding probe in the sump) I'm guessing that the pump failure somehow created a short-circuit resulting in power-leakage to the water killing everything, and it also (somehow?) affected several other electric devices in the tank - the return pump from the sump and the powerheads (in the DT) were all stopped (hence the motionless water), but all devices restarted 'as usual' as soon as I unplugged the Maxi-Jet (I didn't have to touch the breakers on the panel in our basement - they didn't 'trip' at all, and the 2 power bars both have built in trip-switches - but both were still functioning normally)

The heater and the Protein skimmer were the only devices that were operational - and the protein skimmer was in 'overdrive' (not the motor/pump, but from the rise in the water level in the sump) the collection cup was filled to the brim and the water on the floor came from it splashing out of the top of the cup and down the back of the tank cabinet.

It was completely soul-destroying to be pulling dead fish/inverts/corals from the tank last night, and frankly we've had enough. Once we've completely cleaned the tank/sump/equipment I'll be posting an ad for less than 6 month-old equipment (the smell that emanates from a 1 or 2 day dead saltwater tank is really not something I care to experience ever again),


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## Fishlover_680 (May 5, 2009)

I am really sorry to hear about that. Hope the damage to your house is not too bad. That is what I worry about going on vacation too.


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## Ciddian (Mar 15, 2006)

oh my god.. I know that feeling too well but I didn't have such a large tank. I was away trying to sort out my new apt and they had removed the air conditioner from our old place in the middle of a heat wave. 100 degrees in the apt. 

I came home to the same sight.. I haven't started a new tank since.

I am so so sorry..


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## PACMAN (Mar 4, 2010)

Damnit, sorry to hear


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## conix67 (Jul 27, 2008)

I'm sorry to hear about this!! Definitely a soul destroying experience.. 

It appears the maxjet was leaking current. Note that current leaking will not trip circuit breakers, as it is NOT a short. This is why people strongly recommend GFCI for outlets used for aquarium equipment. That is also the reasons most bath rooms or kitchen counter outlets are equipped with GFCI (by law) but most others in the house are not.

Yes, the leaked current will kill many living creatures in the tank.

However, what caused the water on your floor?


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## Windowlicka (Mar 5, 2008)

Thanks all for your words/thoughts.

Conix - the water on the floor (maybe a total of around 2-3 gallons?) came from the overflowing collection cup to the skimmer. The increased water volume in the sump caused the adjustment on the skimmer to be 'off' - instead of skimming foam it was filling with water. The collection cup was full and overflowing - the floating lid at the top was splashing droplets of water out over the sides of the (20G long) sump, down through the cabinet and onto the floor. 

Like I said - it wasn't ~a lot~ of water, but over the duration of up to 3 days, it was enough to cause a shallow pool of saltwater that radiated maybe 8ft from the tank, penetrating through the seams on the hardwood, drenching a rug, and possibly even soaking into the wooden legs on our dining table/chairs and couch - I didn't really have time to take stock of that last night - our priority was to safely empty the tank/sump.


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## conix67 (Jul 27, 2008)

Yeah, I know what you're talking about. My new skimmer is also very sensitive to water level, and water level rise in sump will surely cause it to overflow as well, and the water drops will splash around the sump, and over 3 days it will collect enough to create a puddle. Not a good thing to happen regardless...

So the water level in your sump will rise when your main pump stops. I have the same issue, I gotta fix that.. at least the skimmer section should not rise..

Anyway, if you're willing to start your tank again.. I'll be willing to help you out on some frags.. hurts to see a reefer give up like that..


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## teemee (Aug 29, 2009)

Windowlicka, having just experienced a not as dire as your situation, which was heart wrenching to say the least, I totally feel for you. It really in truly sucks. 
If you change your mind, I don't have too much, but can give you frags of what I have...

Yuri, what is this GFCI thing you're talking about?
I have two two week plus trips coming up. Though someone will always be at home, other than feeding and emptying skimmate, there won't be anything they can do...


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## conix67 (Jul 27, 2008)

GFCI - Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter. The outlets equipped with GCFI usually have two small buttons in the middle - RESET and TEST.

Ground fault is different from short circuit. Short circuit is formed when you short power source to return (+ and - in battery). This will allow as much current to flow through shorted circuit as the power source is capable of. The circuit breaker or fuse will detect this overcurrent situation and trip the breaker/fuse.

The ground fault situation is not detected by circuit breaker or fuse, as there's no unusual amount of current will flow back to return *while* the current is leaking through some object to ground. When this *object* happens to be a human being or animal, the object will be electrocuted. Because of this, places where water is frequently used are equipped with GFCI outlets (bathrooms).

What many hobbies ignore, or not aware of, is that aquariums are common place this ground fault can be experienced, as did windowlicka unfortunately.

That being said, I still don't have GFCI for my tank, and this is asking for trouble. I'm going to find GFCI equipped power bar, as I cannot change the outlet (behind my tank), and put all equipment to it.


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## teemee (Aug 29, 2009)

conix67 said:


> GFCI - Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter. The outlets equipped with GCFI usually have two small buttons in the middle - RESET and TEST.
> 
> Ground fault is different from short circuit. Short circuit is formed when you short power source to return (+ and - in battery). This will allow as much current to flow through shorted circuit as the power source is capable of. The circuit breaker or fuse will detect this overcurrent situation and trip the breaker/fuse.
> 
> ...


I have that on my blowdryer.... If you find out where to get these powerbars, can you let me know? I don't remember seeing them anywhere.
I currently have about 16 things plugged in for my tank, and Windowlickas experience terrifies me for each and every one of them. Clearly the tank grounders didn't work, and the thought of electrocution isn't very pleasant either...


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## Windowlicka (Mar 5, 2008)

Thanks for the offers, guys - but with respect, my/our dabble with saltwater is well and truly over.

The tank is now all but bare - the "live" rock is now sat drying in styrofoam boxes in my garage, the sand is in a 5G bucket.

I threw the bad powerhead in the trash immediately. All other equipment has been rinsed (I have a 50G RO/DI reservoir in the basement with a float switch ATO - the water it contains has been put to good use over the last 24 hours!), but we'll soak everything in vinegar to help sell it on.

In almost 20 years of fishkeeping I've never experienced a loss like this - the failure of a sub-$20 powerhead completely wiped-out almost $2K in livestock, and caused another $4-6K (a conservative 'guesstimate') in damage to furnishings, let alone the considerable $$'s invested in the tank HW/equipment/Accessories/test kits/foods/etc that now lie dormant. We'll be looking at our home insurance coverage to see whether they might be able to help us recover from some of the damage caused (I hope so - as things begin to slowly dry, the damage is already very apparent)

Thanks again guys, I really appreciate the kind offers, but our brief introduction to reefkeeping has most definitely come to a very abrupt (and final) end.


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## carmenh (Dec 20, 2009)

That's every sw hobbyist's worst nightmare :-( Sorry it happened to you :-(


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## conix67 (Jul 27, 2008)

teemee said:


> I have that on my blowdryer.... If you find out where to get these powerbars, can you let me know? I don't remember seeing them anywhere.
> I currently have about 16 things plugged in for my tank, and Windowlickas experience terrifies me for each and every one of them. Clearly the tank grounders didn't work, and the thought of electrocution isn't very pleasant either...


Sorry about hijacking this thread.

I got this one from Lowes just now..



















It's not too expensive, $24...


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## 50seven (Feb 14, 2010)

Sorry to hear of your loss. That totally sucks huge. I know it would turn me off.



conix67 said:


> GFCI - Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter. The outlets equipped with GCFI usually have two small buttons in the middle - RESET and TEST.
> 
> The ground fault situation is not detected by circuit breaker or fuse, as there's no unusual amount of current will flow back to return *while* the current is leaking through some object to ground. When this *object* happens to be a human being or animal, the object will be electrocuted. Because of this, places where water is frequently used are equipped with GFCI outlets (bathrooms).
> 
> ...


A GFCI also will trip the circuit if there is any contact between neutral and ground. You cannot get a shock from this, as there is actually no current flowing between them, but it indicates the presence of excessive moisture or dirt that could cause further electric shock or electrocution problems. Most GFCI's also function as a circuit breaker (for actual shorts)

As I am currently setting up my own system (This weekend I finally finished painting my custom stand) I plan on wiring multiple GFCI outlets into the inside of the cabinet, so that if one outlet trips, there is still a working outlet. This way I will put one of my pumps and one of my heaters on each of the circuits, etc. So if a short or a ground fault causes one outlet to go out, I still have the rest of the system running on the remaining outlet(s).

Don't put all your eggs in one basket.


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## conix67 (Jul 27, 2008)

Windowlicka said:


> Thanks for the offers, guys - but with respect, my/our dabble with saltwater is well and truly over.
> 
> The tank is now all but bare - the "live" rock is now sat drying in styrofoam boxes in my garage, the sand is in a 5G bucket.
> 
> ...


Well, beside the potential loss of livestock, the potential for water damage to your house is always there. When I get somewhat ignorant to some signs of equipment failing, it would eventually fail and usually find out about it too late.

If you want home insurance to cover damages, do make sure to read fine prints and the claim is worthwhile. I've heard stories that many companies raise your insurance premium after a claim..

Anyway, sad to see you go, and hope to see you back maybe years from now then.


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## conix67 (Jul 27, 2008)

50seven said:


> Sorry to hear of your loss. That totally sucks huge. I know it would turn me off.
> 
> A GFCI also will trip the circuit if there is any contact between neutral and ground. You cannot get a shock from this, as there is actually no current flowing between them, but it indicates the presence of excessive moisture or dirt that could cause further electric shock or electrocution problems. Most GFCI's also function as a circuit breaker (for actual shorts)
> 
> ...


Good point about not putting all your eggs in one basket. Single GFCI is good only if you're present in the house to take care of the issue. It's definitely a good idea to put power heads on separate GFCI outlets.

The GFCI and protection against electrocution (GFCI in homes are mainly for this), yes you get the shock in the situation where GFCI would trip. Your body normally acts as ground, especially standing on wet surface, and touching anything that is leaking current (but not actually letting current flow yet) will give you the shock.


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## 50seven (Feb 14, 2010)

conix67 said:


> The GFCI and protection against electrocution (GFCI in homes are mainly for this), yes you get the shock in the situation where GFCI would trip. Your body normally acts as ground, especially standing on wet surface, and touching anything that is leaking current (but not actually letting current flow yet) will give you the shock.


Which is why it is important to have your aquarium protected. Even if there is not enough current to electrocute the fish, the electrostatic charge can cause some metals (copper, aluminum, silver, etc.) to be suspended in the water, and if I'm not mistaken, even can alter the pH.


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## Byronicle (Apr 18, 2009)

im going to the states for 2 weeks, i have no timers or anything automatic so i am pretty scared about what is going to happen, trying to bribe a family member with a key to the house and access to hosting parties in exchange for fishy services.

but yea its ridiculous how a little crash goes a long way, made me stop fishing for 7 years


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## explor3r (Mar 14, 2010)

Im very sorry to hear that, for sure it would be my worst nightmare.
Dont give up u can do it again!!!!!!!!!!!!1


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