# GH SWING! 4-13 over the weekend! help?!



## BettaBeats (Jan 14, 2010)

I just tested my water since before the weekend.. everything is normal except my GH is 13?!

It was stable at 4 since the tank started..

I tested it twice to be sure.
*What could have happened?*

Params:

pH 7.4
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 5
KH 7
GH 13

The only thing done differently is that I've started dosing Seachem Flourish.


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## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

what test kit are you using?

What was your kH before? has the pH gone up?

What's your gravel? What kind of rocks are in there? Did you use a weekend fish feeder?


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## BettaBeats (Jan 14, 2010)

I am using API test kits,

pH has gone up, but 7.2-7.4 

it was 6.4 when I had a crazy DIY CO2 system going. but that was weeks ago.


I am using black sand. not even sure if it is tahitian moon sand. lots of iron content ie; i can no longer use my mag-glass cleaner due to the particles it picked up. 

I took out the e tenellus before the weekend.

no weekend fish feeder.


KH has stayed the same @ 7 since the beginning.
Like I said, I've only started dosing.. I just dosed less than an hour before testing w/ Flourish (micro nutrients)


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## BettaBeats (Jan 14, 2010)

My guess is that the Flourish has added the minerals into my water...

I'm going to increase my buffer capacity by adding baking soda.


This tank is just... a spazz.


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## BettaBeats (Jan 14, 2010)

edit* grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

BettaBeats said:


> My guess is that the Flourish has added the minerals into my water...
> 
> I'm going to increase my buffer capacity by adding baking soda.
> 
> This tank is just... a spazz.


It is doubtful that Flourish was able to raise your gH by 9 points.

Why are you adding baking soda to increase your buffering capacity? A kH of 4 is fine. Adding more chemicals to the water now is just asking for more trouble, as you will be messing with the water chemistry even more, stressing out your fish.

It is quite normal for Toronto water to be this hard, however.


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

There is nothing wrong with a kH of 7. Don't worry. If it climbs to 12, then start poking around for a culprit.

A kH of 4 coming out of Toronto taps is odd...very low. I'd say 7 is more in the ballpark of Toronto water.


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## BettaBeats (Jan 14, 2010)

I thought a KH of 7 and GH of 4 was SOFT water. at least the charts I read...


And why am I adding baking soda? because 7.8 was my original tap water reading. It goes to 6.4 with a fresh CO2 bottle, and 7.2 after 2 weeks.

Aka, a HUGE swing. I want to increase the buffering capacity to lessen pH swings.



I want a stable aquarium, where my plants can get the CO2 they need, without ridiculous swings in pH and GH. and where my fish who have traveled across half the planet WONT die.


$50 in fauna.....

GONE.


my fish aren't from Toronto... they don't need Toronto's water..


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## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

BettaBeats said:


> I thought a KH of 7 and GH of 4 was SOFT water. at least the charts I read...
> 
> And why am I adding baking soda? because 7.8 was my original tap water reading. It goes to 6.4 with a fresh CO2 bottle, and 7.2 after 2 weeks.
> 
> ...


No offense, but you're adding baking soda cuzz you don't know what you're doing. And I mean that very nicely. Honestly though. 7 is a high kH. There's almost no situation in the world that requires a higher carbonate hardness than that.

Why are you even messing with a co2 system at this point?

It's not as complicated as some people make it. Buy gravel, buy some rocks, get a plant, get a few fish, make sure the tank is cycled. Once a week change like 25% of the water, use water conditioner and replace with the same temp water from your tap. Feed your fish but dont overfeed. That's really it for 75% of the freshwater fish out there.

Stop screwing around. a kH of 7 is MORE than sufficient to hold a pH steady. Once it gets down to about 3 or 4 you can worry a little bit. Even then a water change will fix the situation.

K I S S until you're really comfortable.


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

Let's address each point separately.



BettaBeats said:


> And why am I adding baking soda? because 7.8 was my original tap water reading. It goes to 6.4 with a fresh CO2 bottle, and 7.2 after 2 weeks.
> 
> Aka, a HUGE swing.


This is not that big of a pH swing. pH swings that are associated with CO2 are safe for fish. It is when you start playing with the pH by adding solutes to the water (thereby changing your TDS) that the pH shifts become dangerous for fish. Going from 7.2 to 6.4 is not that big of a pH swing.



BettaBeats said:


> I want to increase the buffering capacity to lessen pH swings.


As mentioned, a kH of 7 is more than enough for buffering capacity.



BettaBeats said:


> I want a stable aquarium, where my plants can get the CO2 they need, without ridiculous swings in pH and GH.


As mentioned, injecting CO2 will naturally cause the pH to drop.



BettaBeats said:


> and where my fish who have traveled across half the planet WONT die...my fish aren't from Toronto... they don't need Toronto's water..


No offense here, but unless your fish are extremely rare, wild caught specimens, chances are they were tank raised and are more tolerant to "tap water" conditions.


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

BettaBeats said:


> my fish aren't from Toronto... they don't need Toronto's water..


Toronto's water is fine for 99.9% of fish


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## BettaBeats (Jan 14, 2010)

well, 99% of mine didn't like it.

My pH is rarely stable, unless these are all flukes I don't know what is going on.

I had a plan for this tank from the beginning and when I couldn't find the product I wanted I got something else. The sand/laterite should have been Flourite. But I was impatient. Even then, 

the fact that my plants are PALE and my fish are dying, my pH and GH are swinging, I am extremely frustrated.



Like I said, this is the first tank I've owned that has acted up like this.
I have blue pearl shrimp coming this week and it seems like I might just be throwing $30 down the drain once again.


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

It is unfortunate to hear about your frustrating experience.

It seems as there is/are some factor(s) that are influencing your water chemistry. Toronto water is fine 99% of the time for 99% of the fish, so as I mentioned, unless you have wild caught fish, you should not be having the troubles that you are.

Plants being pale should not have much to do with water chemistry. Most plants can grow in a variety of pH, and gH and kH does not matter much to plants. They are more sensitive to nutrients level, light levels and CO2.

Again, as I mentioned, pH swings are normal, but trying to adjust the pH with chemicals is more stressful for fish. If you are trying to change the pH and/or gH with chemicals, then this should be stopped immediately.

Finally, if you knew you were having such troubles with your aquarium, why did you decide to spend the money and purchase new shrimp (more importantly, shrimp require stable water conditions)?


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## bae (May 11, 2007)

Stop adding CO2. Stop adding fertilizers, baking soda, anything else to your tank. Your fish are dying because too much is changing too fast for them to adapt. Most fish can do well in conditions that are much different from their native waters, as long as pH, hardness and TDS don't keep whipsawing back forth at short intervals. Stability is what's important.

High tech tanks are complicated, and it takes real expertise to manage a small one. IIRC, yours is a 10 gallon. Light is what drives plant growth. Without intense light, you don't need fertilizers or CO2. If they aren't taken up right away by hungry plants, fertilizers are pollutants and encourage algae. I'd guess that your trace mix has calcium and magnesium, which are important minor nutrients for plants, and if the plants aren't taking them up, they could be what is increasing your hardness.

You can have a beautiful, stable, well-planted tank without all this. Look in the planted tank photos section. Ksimdjembe has small planted tanks that look very good. Other people do too. A low tech planted tank is much easier to keep healthy than an unplanted tank, looks better, and is actually less work.

If this is your first planted tank, I recommend you start out low tech, and don't worry about details too much. Plants can take substantial time to show the effects of any changes, and they don't adapt to rapid changes well either. Select easy to grow plants suitable for your lighting conditions and gain experience. Then if you still want to go high tech, you've got a better basis for it.

I hope this helps.


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## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

BettaBeats said:


> well, 99% of mine didn't like it.


Listen.

Please.

You don't know what you're talking about. We've been doing this for a long time. The people who've chimed in here on your thread have about 80 years of combined fish keeping experience. You don't know what your fish like. You haven't had fish long enough to tell a happy fish from a sad one.

I've raised angels in straight tap water, I've also raised them in pH 6.8 gH 2 kH 2

In both cases, they were fine.

Stop trying to be Jacques Cousteau. This is absolutely ridiculous. You have no idea what you're doing. Listen to people. It's really not complicated.

You're looking for problems.

DO NOT use co2 DO NOT dose plants.

Water. Water conditioner. That's it. Once you can keep things alive and happy worry about other stuff.

If I went from a nothing to a reef tank I'd expect it to explode too.

*
Like I said, this is the first tank I've owned that has acted up like this.
I have blue pearl shrimp coming this week and it seems like I might just be throwing $30 down the drain once again.
*

No offense, but let's be honest here, blue pearl shrimp may not be for you until you work this out.

What 99% of your fish aren't liking isn't tap water, it's instability. DIY co2 is inherently unstable and will cause fluctuations. It is not for the uninitiated. I helped someone set a tank up once and within a month he was on pressurized co2 with the nicest planted tank I'd seen in years-- he was also a nuclear technician, had a masters in chemistry, and was many times smarter than I am. He was lucky enough to have an intrinsic understanding of water chemistry coming into it and that's 80% of fish keeping right there. Most of us are not so lucky.

After nearly ten years, I have yet to use co2.

I keep 90% of fish in straight tap water. I _do_ use Seachem's Malawi/Victoria buffer to make pH 8 kH 10 to keep malawi and tanganyikan cichlids because they do prefer it somewhat. They absolutely do not need it though. I've also used remineralized R/O to breed Angels. Did they need it? No. Did they breed more often because of it? I think so. The point is though in both situations it's unnecessary, and I do it more for the inflation of my own ego and mild comfort improvements for the fish. It's not a life or death situation.

Imi, from Pricenetwork, who has some of the absolute nicest tangs I've ever seen, and breeds Furcifers and Sandsifters, which are very fragile, uses straight tap water. If that doesn't say it all I don't know what does .

I know when you're new you see all these fish profiles that say pH 4 pH 6 pH 9. Yes. In the wild. Odds are you got a tank bred specimen that was bred in 7 or 7.5 though.

The only fish we get regularly in Toronto that need special consideration are Discus. We don't get good long-term tank bred discus here. In the US they have very well acclimated discus that have been in 7> for a long time. It's all about where the fish comes from.


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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

I have doubts about this %99 remark. It just depends on what kind fish you have or would like to own. There are numerous time that I wanted some fish that are either 6 pH or 8 pH dependent. But unfortunately, I can't establish those kind of parameters. So I have to give up on owning those kinds of fish.

I think I read some where that you are using DIY CO2? That's the price you have to pay. The problem with DIY is that you can't really control the out put of the CO2. It increases in the day time due to the heat and goes down during the night. Also, do you have a check valve in the CO2. The reason I said this is because the heat and cold can cause your CO2 bottle to pull tank water into the CO2 bottle and flush it back into your tank during the day.
The way a DIY CO2 works is that it starts with a bit of CO2 and build up to a 1, 2 or even 3 bubbles and then it dies down again as it expires. This ofcourse will create a swings in your tanks pH and gH.
You will need hardy fish to go along with these kind of setup. Sensitive fish will only died.
There is some thing that you can do in the mean time to stablize the tank. Make a %10 water change every day. This will help buffer those high peaks and slowly stablize your tank.

*Never pay again for live sex! | Hot girls doing naughty stuff for free! | Chat for free!*


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## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

Zebrapl3co said:


> I have doubts about this %99 remark. It just depends on what kind fish you have or would like to own. There are numerous time that I wanted some fish that are either 6 pH or 8 pH dependent. But unfortunately, I can't establish those kind of parameters. So I have to give up on owning those kinds of fish.
> 
> I think I read some where that you are using DIY CO2? That's the price you have to pay. The problem with DIY is that you can't really control the out put of the CO2. It increases in the day time due to the heat and goes down during the night. Also, do you have a check valve in the CO2. The reason I said this is because the heat and cold can cause your CO2 bottle to pull tank water into the CO2 bottle and flush it back into your tank during the day.
> The way a DIY CO2 works is that it starts with a bit of CO2 and build up to a 1, 2 or even 3 bubbles and then it dies down again as it expires. This ofcourse will create a swings in your tanks pH and gH.
> ...


No it's 99%.

Only ridiculously sensitive things like discus need extra care- and it's because we don't get super long term tank bred strains here. Tanganyikans and malawis ALL exist fine in Toronto tap. Do they do better in 8ish? Slightly, but enough people breed sandsifters in Toronto tap to say it's fine.

Things like checkerboards benefit from a lower pH but a dilligent fishkeeper can keep them and most apistos in Toronto tap too.


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## BettaBeats (Jan 14, 2010)

The varieties of fauna I have tried are Tiger Shrimp (caridina sp) and bridgette's rasboras aka mosquito's. I am suspecting they are semi-intolerant to rapid swings in water chemistry.

Either that or stupid flukes.
I am hoping the blue pearls (neocaridina) will be heartier and actually LIVE in this tank. 

The reason I was upset/frustrated/freaking out is that I had a plan to do this tank proper, but along the way I've made some changes due to what was avail at LFS. That and its a pretty penny that was 'wasted.'


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## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

So.. you're just going to proceed as planned and that's that then...


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

BettaBeats said:


> The varieties of fauna I have tried are Tiger Shrimp (caridina sp) and bridgette's rasboras aka mosquito's. I am suspecting they are semi-intolerant to rapid swings in water chemistry.
> 
> Either that or stupid flukes.
> I am hoping the blue pearls (neocaridina) will be heartier and actually LIVE in this tank.


Most fish/invertebrates require stable water conditions. Given your current circumstances, it is unlikely that the Blue Pearls will do very well, as they are more sensitive (than say your normal "Cherry" strain of Neocaridina).


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## BettaBeats (Jan 14, 2010)

AquariAM said:


> So.. you're just going to proceed as planned and that's that then...


No, I thought things were stable as all my parameter checks read stable.. It wasn't until after the weekend, after I put my payment for the BP's down, that I noticed the big fluctuation.

Why would I purchase stock if things werent stable? Why would I keep a ledger of my param checks for the past two months? To make sure the environment was stable so I could give the shrimp and fish a decent home.

I don't get what you mean by 'proceed as planned and that's that then.'

I asked what would cause a GH swing. I haven't read one response that is helpful towards understanding why such a change would happen. It seems every time I mention something it gets shot down but no one is able to give good reasoning or direct me to information that would help me to a: understand why the swing happened, and b: help stabilize my water.

I'm going to proceed with caution. Keep checking params, do my weekly water changes, and keep steady on my dosing regime.


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## BettaBeats (Jan 14, 2010)

Darkblade48 said:


> Most fish/invertebrates require stable water conditions. Given your current circumstances, it is unlikely that the Blue Pearls will do very well, as they are more sensitive (than say your normal "Cherry" strain of Neocaridina).


Can you see why I am frustrated now? Bringing stock that is already paid for into my tank that just went through a big param change is a bit of a 'woah, shit' situation.

I used the original post of this thread to ask people why the GH would shoot up? I said I had only started dosing Flourish. Someone said it couldn't be that.

I have stock coming into what my log of parameters said was a stable tank up until this past weekend. That's why I was asking for help. Because I'm concerned.

there are not enough emoticons on this board to express my emotion in a way that people might 'get' it.
so i'll just give up.


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## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

You do understand you are and will continue to kill things due to an unstable setup that is unsustainable right?

You have to get your conditions stable- ie go pressurized co2 or don't do it at all at this point, or things will keep dying.

Either that or do a zebra danio tank.


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

BettaBeats said:


> I asked what would cause a GH swing. I haven't read one response that is helpful towards understanding why such a change would happen. It seems every time I mention something it gets shot down but no one is able to give good reasoning or direct me to information that would help me to a: understand why the swing happened, and b: help stabilize my water.


There might be a number of reasons that caused your gH to shoot up. More likely than starting to dose, it may simply be the changes in tap water. Perhaps the water treatment plants are doing something a little different, etc.

I would test the tap water, and then just start doing small, regular water changes (say 10-20% per day) to "reset" everything to tap water. Stop the dosing, and stop the DIY CO2 for the time being, at least until water parameters are back under control.



BettaBeats said:


> I used the original post of this thread to ask people why the GH would shoot up? I said I had only started dosing Flourish. Someone said it couldn't be that.


That would have been me. It is unlikely that dosing Flourish will cause a large jump in gH as you have observed. This is because the amount of nutrients that is in Flourish amounts to nearly nothing. Consider the small amount of minerals that are present in Flourish, and then consider how much of it you are actually dosing into your tank.

Some people have said that the Flourish line of fertilizers essentially amounts to water mixed with a dash of fertilizers.


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## BettaBeats (Jan 14, 2010)

AquariAM said:


> You do understand you are and will continue to kill things due to an unstable setup that is unsustainable right?
> 
> You have to get your conditions stable- ie go pressurized co2 or don't do it at all at this point, or things will keep dying.
> 
> Either that or do a zebra danio tank.


it's a 10 gal tank. And I was asking why my GH swung. I understand why the pH swung.

march 22 I added a new bottle of CO2 at the end of the cycle. The next 4 days had a pH of 6.4. When that bottle ended (it fizzed heavily for a few days then just died) the pH went to 7.2.

My new CO2 is working well and the pH has been stable for the past two weeks @ 7.4. Then this past weekend the GH shot up to 13 AFTER I DOSED FLOURISH.

I think I actually understand whats going on. I'm not going to reply to any more responses. People don't seem to be reading properly.


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

BettaBeats said:


> Then this past weekend the GH shot up to 13 AFTER I DOSED FLOURISH.
> 
> I think I actually understand whats going on. I'm not going to reply to any more responses. People don't seem to be reading properly.


Let's take a look at this logically.

Here is the guaranteed analysis of Seachem Flourish, according to the manufacturer website.

Total Nitrogen 
0.07%
Available Phosphate ( P2O5) 
0.01%
Soluble Potash 
0.37%
Calcium (Ca) 
0.14%
Magnesium (Mg) 
0.11%
Sulfur (S) 
0.2773%
Boron (B) 
0.009%
Chlorine (Cl) 
1.15%
Cobalt (Co) 
0.0004%
Copper (Cu) 
0.0001%
Iron (Fe) 
0.32%
Manganese (Mn) 
0.0118%
Molybdenum (Mo) 
0.0009%
Sodium (Na) 
0.13%
Zinc (Zn) 
0.0007%

The two things that would raise gH would be calcium and magnesium (0.14% and 0.11%, respectively).

We can also convert the percentages here to ppm for convenience sake.

0.14% = 1400 ppm
0.11% = 1100 ppm

Now according to the manufacturer, the dosing is as follows:
Use 1 capful (5 mL) for each 250 L (60 gallons*) once or twice a week.

You have a 10 gallon tank, so at most, you are using 0.83 mL twice a week.

Now, figure that you are also diluting this into 37.8L (10 gallons) of water...

Logically, it is impossible for the amount of Flourish you dosed to increase your gH by 9 degrees (160.74 ppm!).

But, of course, if we want to be thorough, we can figure out exactly how much you raised your hardness by...

For calcium:
We use the convenient formula:
M1V1 = M2V2

Whereby M1 = concentration of ~ (i.e. calcium in this case)
V1 = volume being added
M2 = final concentration (what we want to solve for)
V2 = volume of aquarium

(1400 ppm)(0.83 mL) = (M2)(37854.1178 mL) (we must keep the units the same)

Solving for M2, we get: 0.0307 ppm (I rounded)

Similar calculations can be done for magnesium, and we get 0.0241 ppm.

So at most, by dosing Flourish, you have increased your gH by 0.0307 + 0.0241 = 0.0548 ppm.

We can even go so far as to assume many things. Let's say your "actual" water volume is not really 10 gallons, but 5 gallons (perhaps you have a lot of substrate, hardscape, etc). Then you would have increased your gH by (0.0548*2) = 0.1096 ppm...

*Conclusion:* Your gH did not increase by 9 degrees (160.74 ppm) by dosing 0.83 mL of Flourish.

Of course, the above calculations were done for once per week dosing. Maybe you dosed more times? Then just multiply the numbers...but you can clearly see that *it is not possible to raise your gH by 160.74 ppm with Flourish.*

I hope this proves my point.


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

I must admit, my earlier post was based on me misreading your post. I thought your kH had swung up to 7 =D

Now, before you jump to conclusions about the lack of information here for you I think you should re-read some of the posts because together they hold a lot of information for you.

First off, I'm not sure you fully understand how pH, kH and gH work in an aquarium. In fact, very few people do. If you understand some basic principles you can get a better understanding of the water chemistry in your tank though.

pH - (Potentiometric hydrogen ion concentration) - this measures the acidity or basicity of your tank (acid, neutral, basic).

kH - Alkalinity - essentially the buffering (against pH swings) capacity of your water. It measures mostly carbonates and bicarbonates.

gH - The Hardness/Softness of your water - this measures primarily things like calcium and magnesium ions

So, looking at the information given here, here is what I think (after properly reading this time!):

Your pH: You are seeing perfectly natural swings in pH based on injecting cO2. There is nothing to be concerned with here. Both ranges are safe. If you want to eliminate pH swings like this, you will have to cut out the use of co2, because this is what it does. With a pressurized co2 system, you can control the pH easier by using a pH probe and a solenoid to shut off the pH if it gets too low. This isn't really a viable option for you with a 10g tank.

Your kH: 7 is fine, no problems there (and no problems mentioned by you either!)

Your gH: Your swing in gH isn't easily explainable with the information you have provided. Suffice to say though, that a reading of 13 is not off the charts, but more appropriate to say, african cichlids.

Now what, based on your information, could be altering your gH?

I would say nothing. I would ask, are you using a substrate of crushed coral or something similar? Do you have ornaments or rocks in your tank that could be leeching into the water?

Toronto tap waters comes out at about 120 ppm (like...7 or 8), so water changes should help to reset your gH. As for flourish - it does dose trace amounts of calcium and magnesium, so in essence it can flucuate your gH, but unless you are using way over the recommended dosage, I highly doubt you would see a huge change in your readings (nor have I ever heard of similar problems).

With all that said, remember your tank is quite small (10g), so it is harder to keep stable water chemistry. The larger volume, the easier. The more stuff you add, the more you play with the chemistry. The more you have to play with it, the harder it is to keep stable.

I can understand the need and want to give the perfect conditions for your shrimp, but most of the information regarding keeping soft water shrimp is based on breeding them. This is, I think, secondary to keeping them alive!

To be honest, I've had no problem breeding bumble-bees and cherries (well, who hasn't?) in straight Toronto tap water. If your goal is to breed them, I would try it first without altering any parameters and see if they are successful. From there, you can work towards changing the parameters.

Lastly, there is nothing wrong with Toronto tap water for keeping/breeding Blue Pearls. Here is a quick copy/paste from planet inverts (I have bolded the most important part!):

_Water Parameters

The Blue Pearl Shrimp prefers slightly alkaline to medium-hard water *but are like other Neocaridina species in that they are easily adaptable to various conditions.* Temperature can range from 68F-86F. Make sure that there is enough dissolved oxygen in the water if the water is warm._

If I were you, I would re-read bae's post and take that advice to heart.

Hope this helps!


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

Darkblade48 said:


> *Conclusion:* Your gH did not increase by 9 degrees (160.74 ppm) by dosing 0.83 mL of Flourish.
> 
> Of course, the above calculations were done for once per week dosing. Maybe you dosed more times? Then just multiply the numbers...but you can clearly see that *it is not possible to raise your gH by 160.74 ppm with Flourish.*
> 
> I hope this proves my point.


Math wins every time!


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

Chris S said:


> With a pressurized co2 system, you can control the pH easier by using a pH probe and a solenoid to shut off the pH if it gets too low. This isn't really a viable option for you with a 10g tank.


I'm using a pressurized CO2 system for a 2.5 gallon nano 



Chris S said:


> I would say nothing. I would ask, are you using a substrate of crushed coral or something similar? Do you have ornaments or rocks in your tank that could be leeching into the water?


+1. This is a likely culprit.



Chris S said:


> As for flourish - it does dose trace amounts of calcium and magnesium, so in essence it can flucuate your gH, but unless you are using way over the recommended dosage, I highly doubt you would see a huge change in your readings (nor have I ever heard of similar problems).


You posted shortly after I posted my lengthy calculation. See above. 

Edit:


Chris S said:


> Math wins every time!


 Almost ninja'ed there!


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## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

Darkblade48 said:


> Let's take a look at this logically.
> 
> Here is the guaranteed analysis of Seachem Flourish, according to the manufacturer website.
> 
> ...


_Exactly, and given that, and that we still don't know why your gH is swinging, don't add those shrimp yet. _

I bow down to your superior math DB


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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

Save your breath and time. He's just posting for the sakes of posting. He barely read any reply at all.

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## BettaBeats (Jan 14, 2010)

Darkblade48 said:


> I'm using a pressurized CO2 system for a 2.5 gallon nano
> 
> +1. This is a likely culprit.
> 
> ...


Nothing like rocks or crushed coral to change my GH. I knew enough to not do that.

I think the culprit was that instead of doing a water change on the Friday I just topped up, and I just topped up on the Tuesday. I did a ~15% WC today and GH is now 12.


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## BettaBeats (Jan 14, 2010)

Zebrapl3co said:


> Save your breath and time. He's just posting for the sakes of posting. He barely read any reply at all.


I read the replies. 
This type of cynicism is probably the reason Canada's largest city has one of the slowest forums.


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## BettaBeats (Jan 14, 2010)

bae said:


> Stop adding CO2. Stop adding fertilizers, baking soda, anything else to your tank. Your fish are dying because too much is changing too fast for them to adapt. Most fish can do well in conditions that are much different from their native waters, as long as pH, hardness and TDS don't keep whipsawing back forth at short intervals. Stability is what's important.
> 
> High tech tanks are complicated, and it takes real expertise to manage a small one. IIRC, yours is a 10 gallon. Light is what drives plant growth. Without intense light, you don't need fertilizers or CO2. If they aren't taken up right away by hungry plants, fertilizers are pollutants and encourage algae. I'd guess that your trace mix has calcium and magnesium, which are important minor nutrients for plants, and if the plants aren't taking them up, they could be what is increasing your hardness.
> 
> ...


Not my first planted tank. I've had good success in the past and that is why I figured - now that I had all the equipment, maybe taking things up a level in terms of plants. So I picked out some high light plants. I fell into trouble now because since I don't have a bioload from fish, my plants are needing nutrients. I posted about this about my pogostemon's new leaves being pale. This is why I picked up flourish, and am in the process of trying to order the macros in 500ml bottles and not the larger sizes avail at my LFS. It's a 10 gal remember.

*Now to everyone else that has kindly posted some good information:*

My equipment is fine. I have an aquaclear 30, coralife t5 24" dualstrip, and my DIY does have a stable bubble count NOW.

*On the CO2 swing:*
By raising my KH I was hoping that any of the fluctuations associated with the DIY CO2 - which I was aware of before, would be minimized. My goal is to narrow the parameters that the pH will swing throughout the day, and to also avoid what happened with the - as I mentioned - faulty CO2 bottle I made at the start (the one that bubbled for 3 days then just stopped, that made my pH swing from 7.8 to 6.4, then up to 7.2).

I think people combined the CO2 swing that happened 4 weeks ago with the GH swing that happened this past weekend. 


For the past, now 3 weeks, pH has remained stable. I got rid of the bubble curtain diffuser feeding into the whisper 10, and upgraded to the AQ30 w/ the CO2 tube feeding into the uptake spout.

*I also did something bad by mixing my GH and KH up in the original post. It was originally 8, not 4. It then went to 13, and after a partial water change today is now @ 11. *

I am, with everyone's expertise, inclined to think that by topping off my water in a hurry before the weekend, without doing a water change that week, and then topping it off again after the weekend, could have raised it by a few points. And flourish might have raised it a little as well, but as you've mentioned the amount would be minimal.

I will keep doing small WCs until the new GH balance is reached.

And yes, I have learned some valuable information in regards to instability in new tanks.


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## BettaBeats (Jan 14, 2010)

Darkblade48 said:


> Let's take a look at this logically.
> 
> Here is the guaranteed analysis of Seachem Flourish, according to the manufacturer website.
> 
> ...


My bottle says "divide the number of gallons to treat by 40" which means I should only be dosing .25 mL of flourish. 
My bottle also says 
Calcium -0.18%
Magnesium- 0.11%
Sulfur- 0.23%
Chlorine- 1.23%
Cobalt- 0.00004%
Copper- 0.000125%

and to be honest, I don't really want to keep typing these out. But the majority of the _Guaranteed Analysis _ numbers on my bottle are higher than on your bottle.


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## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

BettaBeats said:


> My bottle says "divide the number of gallons to treat by 40" which means I should only be dosing .25 mL of flourish.
> My bottle also says
> Calcium -0.18%
> Magnesium- 0.11%
> ...


It doesn't matter dude.

Your fluorish DID NOT raise your gH that many points, nor did just topping up your tank. Something is screwing with your hardness. Drywall dust maybe-- maybe you have a really alkaline sedimentary rock and don't know it.. I don't know. Something is doing it and it's not the fluorish. You'd need like 3/4 of a bottle to achieve that. 0.18% calcium. As Calcium chloride probably. Enough calcium chloride to produce that much hardness would likely seriously screw up your plants and fish with all the chloride. I just can't see it honestly.


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

I can't see topping off the tank as being reason for that large of a swing in hardness. There has to be another reason.

Maybe your test kit is kapoot?


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## gucci17 (Oct 11, 2007)

WOW lol...sorry had to say that.

This thread is entertaining...


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## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

BettaBeats-- would you consider a pressurized co2 system? Or maybe just no co2 and no ferts for a while. Sure your plants will crapp out and some might die but at least until you can get stability in there? Or just grow a few anubias plants. If I can keep them alive and grow them for a year or two anybody can. 
Just a though.


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

BettaBeats said:


> My bottle says "divide the number of gallons to treat by 40" which means I should only be dosing .25 mL of flourish.
> My bottle also says
> Calcium -0.18%
> Magnesium- 0.11%
> ...


The result is still the same. While the calcium in your particular bottle is higher, the dosage is much smaller (less than 1/3 of the 0.83 mL I quoted), and the end result remains the same: *your dosing of Flourish will not have increased your hardness by 160.74 ppm*



Chris S said:


> Maybe your test kit is kapoot?


This is possible!


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