# External pumps - I could use some feedback/personal experience.



## wildexpressions (May 3, 2010)

If you can relate any first hand experience's would be great. 

I need to replace a external pump in a dry installation on a reef tank and among my suppliers there seems to be a pretty limited selection. 

The filtration is under the tank in a classic config (so self priming is not required) with 7 ft of head. There are dining room tables next to it although the ambient noise level in the room is fairly high.

It had a 1300gph Little Giant on it ( almost completely silent) and I've temporarily installed one of the shops backup pumps, a 750 gph BlueLine. The Blueline seems to be doing the job just fine but in this install it is louder than the Little Giant was for some reason. I expected it to be silent. 

I mostly have access to to Life Guard stuff and their conventional external pump are all way to big and too expensive. They are basically re-purposed pool pumps.

So that leaves me to choose from ... 

Quiet One 6000
Spec wise it looks good 
1653 gph 
max head is 11.5 ft and I saw no numbers but I'd guess less than 1100gph at 7 ft. They say it is 45 db but I'm guessing that is with no head and large dia. pipe.
Anyone have first hand experience with it? 

Pondmaster HY-Drive 4850 Pond & Waterfall Pump
decent price and it handles 20ft head. Does not give noise level but it is a pond pump. At 7 ft of head though it shouldn't be straining. 

I have a Mag 2400 sitting here but I have never used one in an external install and I expect it is noisy ... anyone? They also produce pretty good heat and that always concerned me when thinking of external/dry applications.

I've used Mag's in house almost exclusively for years and love the 1800's/2400's (and my 3600's until they died).


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

I am using Panworld 150 with 1.5 drain on the ~ 15" high with 3" horizontal and it is OK to keep constant level of the water in 80G tank, and as you can see it with maximum head of 28"

with 11" maximum you will gets almost noting at 7". It is much better to have more powerful pump and bypass excessive flow back to the sump

They are very good, but these pumps are noisy and you can not have them in the living room

http://www.marinedepot.com/pumps_pan_world_magnetic_px_ps-ap.html

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## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

The QO and MagDrive pumps will have a bit of a hum as will BlueLine/Panworld pressure rated pumps. If you go with the flow biased pumps, they will be significantly quieter.

There aren't many aquarium related distributors that carry Little Giant (LG) pump. If you are in the GTA, Fountain Pump Services is the only place that I know of that has the full line of LG pumps.


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## wildexpressions (May 3, 2010)

wtac said:


> The QO and MagDrive pumps will have a bit of a hum as will BlueLine/Panworld pressure rated pumps. If you go with the flow biased pumps, they will be significantly quieter.
> 
> There aren't many aquarium related distributors that carry Little Giant (LG) pump. If you are in the GTA, Fountain Pump Services is the only place that I know of that has the full line of LG pumps.


thanks for the lead on the local source of little giants. Maybe they can sell me a replacement motor.

The Blueline/Panworld pumps are the same pump, or at least appear to be. Do you know why it is sold under two brands?


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## wildexpressions (May 3, 2010)

sig said:


> with 11" maximum you will gets almost noting at 7". It is much better to have more powerful pump and bypass excessive flow back to the sump


I'd expect it to do about half of its rated output at 7 foot. A little over half rated output is what I normally see from the Danner Mag pumps at 7 foot. I may just toss the Mag 2400 on there or the Danner Pondmaster.

This is a large commercial install in the lobby of the building next to the restaurant and it is not really practical to replumb the system for a bypass. If I had to replumb than I think I'd switch it over to a submersed pump in which case it will get a Mag 2400.


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## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

wildexpressions said:


> thanks for the lead on the local source of little giants. Maybe they can sell me a replacement motor.


No problem.



wildexpressions said:


> The Blueline/Panworld pumps are the same pump, or at least appear to be. Do you know why it is sold under two brands?


PanWorld is the mfg and the company BlueLine approached them to "rebrand/label" the PanWorld pump with the agreement to buy "X" many pumps/year. No different than if I went to, let's say Tunze, to rebrand a WTAC Stream Powerhead .

Look at DC pumps coming out to market. WaveLine, SpeedWave and Diablo...the main mfg for these pumps is Honcar.


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## advanced reef aquatics (Apr 20, 2009)

Blueline is rebrand for Champion lighting, still the best external pump on the market, i have some of these running 10 plus years, they are not silent, but no good quality, shaft driven pump will be.
you will not get the life or quality from one of the D.C. pumps compared to a Panworld, or any other quality external. nor will you get any decent pressure. at this time non of the D.C. pumps are pressurized, also external install on lower quality pumps is not recommended due to thin housing materials and orings that dont seat properly. A properly installed Panworld should have no more than a slight hum to them, I do know there is a pressurized D.C. with controller and super high P.S.I. of that will be hitting market in the fall, and priced under $500.
German made, Current D.C. pumps being made are by Jebao, which is actually a decent supplier of pumps in China.
I would not use a powerhead type pump such as Mag for your application. plus they tend to be noisy as well.
Good luck


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## wildexpressions (May 3, 2010)

advanced reef aquatics said:


> Blueline is rebrand for Champion lighting, still the best external pump on the market, i have some of these running 10 plus years, they are not silent, but no good quality, shaft driven pump will be.
> you will not get the life or quality from one of the D.C. pumps compared to a Panworld, or any other quality external. nor will you get any decent pressure. at this time non of the D.C. pumps are pressurized, also external install on lower quality pumps is not recommended due to thin housing materials and orings that dont seat properly. A properly installed Panworld should have no more than a slight hum to them, I do know there is a pressurized D.C. with controller and super high P.S.I. of that will be hitting market in the fall, and priced under $500.
> German made, Current D.C. pumps being made are by Jebao, which is actually a decent supplier of pumps in China.
> I would not use a powerhead type pump such as Mag for your application. plus they tend to be noisy as well.
> Good luck


lol, you certainly like your Bluelines 
I don't think anyone mentioned using D.C.. Magnetic drive pumps are available in A.C. and D.C. but the vast majority are A.C.

I am concerned about noise and heat for the Danner Mag 2400 but I certainly am not concerned about its ability to do the job. The Mag's work just fine under high pressure loads. I know this from first hand experience. I've installed and run them in a low volume/high pressure commercial system. It had to deal with 7 ft head but in addition all of the return lines were highly pressurized. We ran small submerged spray nozzles on the end of each of the dozens of return lines to create very strong currents in the bare bottom tanks.

At one time most every wholesale/breeder and many retail shops you walked into had Danner Mag Supremes running at least part of their shop. Many used them exclusively. I have numerous Mags kicking around that are well over 10 years of age and the modern parts are all 100% interchangeable. They are serious work horses. Their 3600 was discontinued which is a shame because 3600gph in a package that small was amazing. Issue was that the ~$100 impeller magnet was so strong that it was difficult to install it with out it being ripped out of your hands invariably chipping the ceramic shaft on impact resulting in lots of pi$$ed people.... myself included. I had two of them and I miss them. They were beasts.

I have never used one dry mounted though. It is not an uncommon configuration and there are plenty of pix/posts online showing just that but I've never stood next to a system doing it so I was wondering if anyone had.

I may just leave the Blueline in there. I'm not sure I agree it is the "best" but obviously I like them enough that I own and use them.

It is a quality pump and it is already installed and working. It is smaller than the Little Giant but filtration flow rate is only a tiny part of the filtration equation and I can easily mod the system to accommodate it properly.


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## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

That's it Flav...been awhile since I've had to deal with Champion as BL are quite a robust pump. Quite awhile ago, the only mod that I've seen to quiet the noise from the rear cooling fan of the motor casing was to completely remove the fan and mount a heat sink and low speed cooling fan in it's place.


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## advanced reef aquatics (Apr 20, 2009)

Never seen that mod Wilson. , ive never had a big issue with heat or noise as most are in dedicated sump rooms, but good to know. nowdays the only time i use panworlds are for basement to main floor setup. for under tank there are too many good pumps on the market.


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## 50seven (Feb 14, 2010)

I'm using a Poseidon PS3. It's the only external pump I've ever used, but I love it. It's whisper quiet and has lots of power to pump from my basement-plumbed sump. I'd recommend it to anybody.

Only drawbacks are that is adds 1-2 degrees temperature to the system (not a problem for me with the sump in the cool basement) , and that they have been discontinued since the company got sold or something like that. Not sure what the product name that replaced it is called.


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## badmedicine (Oct 27, 2012)

CORAL LIFE Turbo sea Pump (Big AL's) worked well while it lasted. The impeller went (normal wear and tear). Now I can't find a replacement impeller for it. The company's suggestion was to buy a new one !!! 
I liked it for the 4-5 years it worked- now another expensive door stop. With this mentality, do you thnk I want to buy any other hard goods from Big Al's ??? (That would be NO! )


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## advanced reef aquatics (Apr 20, 2009)

The red colour Turbo from coralife is a rebranded Panworld/Blueline, 
Just match up the pump and you will have no issue with impeller.


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## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

+1

Here's the mod...had to dig awhile in the comp to find it...LOL


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## advanced reef aquatics (Apr 20, 2009)

Thats awesome Wilson, is it one of yours?


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## wildexpressions (May 3, 2010)

I ended up removing the Blueline and installing a Little Giant. The Blueline is a grreat pump or I wouldn't have one as a spare shop pump but this particular model is not up to the job. The Little Giant 4-MDQX-SC handles the load pretty effortlessly based on the flow and noise level. It is a very impressive little pump.


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## wildexpressions (May 3, 2010)

badmedicine said:


> CORAL LIFE Turbo sea Pump (Big AL's) worked well while it lasted. The impeller went (normal wear and tear). Now I can't find a replacement impeller for it. The company's suggestion was to buy a new one !!!
> I liked it for the 4-5 years it worked- now another expensive door stop. With this mentality, do you thnk I want to buy any other hard goods from Big Al's ??? (That would be NO! )


That is one of the nice things about companies like Little Giant or Danner. I replaced a 7 year old Little Giant pump with an identical new one. Danner hasn't changed the Mag series in many years either. The good stuff doesn't need to be changed so parts are avail for many years.


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