# Cycle problem



## wiggle (Aug 7, 2009)

Help! I thought I had it all under control but now I'm ashamed to admit that I don't.

I thought I had completed a proper fishless cycle, by adding in ammonia daily until ammonia drops to 0 in a day, and nitrites are 0. This took 3 weeks to happen. Then I was happy and went out and bought some fish (4 black skirt tetras).

It's been about two weeks, and ammonia is always zero, but nitrites are off the scale! (more than 50ppm I think). They are very high and I don't think my fish are too happy.

I patiently did the fishless cycle to avoid such problems, but they happened anyway.

It's a 20G with Aquaclear 30 filter.

What could possibly have gone wrong?


----------



## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

Are you sure you are testing nitrites and not nitrates? 50 ppm of nitrites would be instantly lethal, and I do not know of any nitrite test kit that goes that high...


----------



## KnaveTO (May 13, 2007)

You must be talking nitrates. 50ppm for nitrates requires a water change, but that is about it. Also never be ashamed to admit that you may have an issue. That is what we are here for, to help and mentor.


----------



## wiggle (Aug 7, 2009)

oh, I wish that were true. I'm talking nitrITES.

I'm using the test kit from API: http://aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=77

It's light blue (0 ppm) and turns magenta when there are nitrites.

when the test went off the scale (> 5ppm), I then tested a 10:1 dilution, which still went off the scale, which means > 50ppm.

I feed the 4 black tetras twice a day, about 2-3 flakes per feeding. They eat it up quickly within 2 minutes.

I also have a plant (wisteria) in the tank.


----------



## KnaveTO (May 13, 2007)

That kit goes from a reading of 0 to *5.0*ppm. there is no possible way that you could get a reading of 50ppm. If you had an actual 50ppm in your tank, your fish would be dead. The very fact that you have fish in the tank that are eating and you have mentioned no distress in them tell me that there is something off with your test. How old is your test kit, and what is the expiry date of the kit? What are your ammonia and nitrate readings?


----------



## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

That level of nitrites should be lethal as was said before. How old are your test kits? Are you sure you're following all the instructions properly?


----------



## Jackson (Jan 30, 2009)

API works like this with expiry dates

each reagent bottle has a Lot # printed on the bottle. The last four digits are the month and year of manufacture. Example: Lot # 28A0102. This is a pH reagent manufactured in January of 2002. Pond Care Wide Range pH, Ammonia, High Range pH, Nitrate, Phosphate, Copper, Calcium and GH all last for three years. Nitrite and KH will last for four years. Freshwater pH(low range) and Pond Care Salt Level will last for five years. I would not trust these kits after they have expired.

This should help you.


----------



## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

wiggle said:


> oh, I wish that were true. I'm talking nitrITES.
> 
> It's light blue (0 ppm) and turns magenta when there are nitrites.
> 
> when the test went off the scale (> 5ppm), I then tested a 10:1 dilution, which still went off the scale, which means > 50ppm.


Hmm, the test kit you described is definitely the nitrite test kit and not the nitrate test kit.

As others have mentioned already, the only possible explanation is if your test kit expired. But even then, I have used expired nitrite test kits (and compared them to brand new ones) and gotten the same results. I doubt that unless you were using a nitrite test kit from eons ago, would your results come back this skewed.

The only other thing I can think of would be a) a faulty batch or b) you did not use the test kit properly (i.e. shaking the reagents fully before testing, etc). This is because it would be impossible for aquatic life to survive at 5 ppm of nitrites, nevermind 50 ppm.


----------



## wiggle (Aug 7, 2009)

Lot #26A0209 -- that means Feb 2009.

I just did a complete test and here's what I got:
ammonia - 0
nitrites - 10ppm
nitrates - 0

I tested nitrites twice. Once with a 10:1 dilution, and got 1ppm x 10 = 10ppm. Again with a 20:1 dilution, and got 0.5ppm x 20 = 10ppm. I trust these test results. The 50ppm measurement might not have been very exact, but it was at LEAST 10ppm or more.

The reason for the diluting is I found it hard to tell the difference between the colours for 1ppm,2ppm,5ppm, as well the kit doesn't measure above 5ppm as stated earlier.

I did two 25% water changes in the past 3 days to try to reduce the nitrites.

The black skirt tetras SEEM ok, but since I've never really kept fish before, I don't know what they're supposed to be like. They're feeding fine, but seem more lethargic than when I first got them. (11 days ago).

I am surprised nitrATES are 0. They've always been 0. And yet, in my the original cycling I did see nitrITES drop down to 0 for 2 days.

So it seems like my tank is going through another cycle, with fish in it. My original cycle didn't seem "powerful" enough to handle the fish. But since I followed the fish-less cycling instructions closely, I don't know what went wrong.


----------



## KnaveTO (May 13, 2007)

I notice that you live DT. I would recomend that you take a sample of your water in to Menagerie and have them test is as well and see that happens. Can't hurt to get a second opinion.


----------



## clock906 (Nov 22, 2007)

I had similar experience doing fishless cycle..
I had nitrites reading of over 20-40ppm for many months. (I used the dilution method to get the reading)
I did a few 30/50% water change but the tank just wouldn't finish cycling..so I went and did a 95% water change and the cycle completed in just a few days after that.

I think excessive amount of nitrite will prevent proper nitrfying bacteria from establishing, so I would suggest a HUGE water change to bring your nitrite back to no more than 2-3ppm.

Also your fish wont' last if you have nitrite present in your tank. See if you can put them in another tank until your cycle completes. (maybe an empty tank and just do water change everyday?)


----------



## wiggle (Aug 7, 2009)

I haven't reported back here for a few days since I had nothing significant to report.

But Hallelujah! Over the last 2 days nitrite levels have dropped significantly. Last night was 2.5ppm and this morning was 0.5ppm. So, it looks like -- FINALLY -- the second type of bacteria have begun doing their thing.

The fish seem a bit feistier, which I take to be a good thing.

So, I think the crisis is over.

In retrospect I think where I went wrong with the original fishless cycle was I didn't put in enough ammonia, and so the tank underwent a "mini" cycle. When I introduced the 4 black skirts, the tank underwent a second, bigger cycle, unfortunately with the fish in it.

Good thing tetras are hardy -- they appear to be doing fine.

In my ignorance I may have inadvertently done some "myth-busting":
- you CAN measure 50ppm nitrite with a kit that only goes up to 5ppm
- fish CAN live in 50ppm nitrite (but it's highly not recommended)

Thanks for all the advice! You are a friendly bunch.


----------



## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

Hmm, not sure about fish living in 50 ppm. I've seen fish that died at 10 ppm nitrite.
Also, I am wondering how 4 fish in a 20G can bump nitrite up so high in the first place. Even with a fish cycle, it shouldn't even reach that high.
But anyway, we can only make guesses. The good news is, your tank is OK and that's whats important. Just keep an eye on the water parm for the next few days. A cycle doesn't end abruptly, it will spin off 1 or 2 more mini-cycle before it settles down.
Also, I hope you aren't adding anymore ammonia. (just a precaution.)
As for the fish, you can tell that some thing is wrong when you see your fish flashing. (fish does a quick scratch against object or gravels.) The usualy done eat.
A sign of good healthy fish is when the gleefully run all over your tank.

*Never pay again for live sex! | Hot girls doing naughty stuff for free! | Chat for free!*


----------



## wiggle (Aug 7, 2009)

yeah, I'm not sure if I totally understand what happened in my tank.

maybe it wasn't 50, but at least, it was 10 ppm. the test kit colours are kinda hard to tell apart.

I didn't see any "flashing" behaviour that you described. you mean to type "they usually DON'T eat" right?

thanks for the tips


----------



## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

10 ppm maybe, but no way was it 50ppm or your tetra's would have suffocated.

Don't assume diluting the solution will provide accurate results. 

Interesting that your nitrite levels have dropped, but you still read no nitrate.

For the record, this is why fishless cycles are so sketchy in my opinion. The tank might cycle by adding ammonia etc., but without a steady source of food, the bacteria simply die off hence many people end up having full or "mini" cycles when they add fish in.


----------



## wiggle (Aug 7, 2009)

when I originally did the fishless cyle, nitrITES dropped, but I didn't register any nitrATES -- which supports my theory that I hadn't been adding enough ammonia.

now, nitrATES are on the rise as they should be, and nitrITES measured this morning were at zero. oh happy day!

I must say I am rather disappointed at the results of my fishless cycle. Perhaps the trick is to add ammonia not once, but many times each day?

Anyway, my fishies seem considerably jumpier and happier day by day!


----------

