# Netlea Planting Soil



## Beijing08

I want to give everyone who's bought the Netlea a place to discuss their results and afterthoughts of using this soil. Currently, it's scattered everywhere and it makes it hard for people to find real intensified info on this new product. 

The soil is supposedly very good for raising softwater plants that require slightly lower pH and low GH. Hopefully it lives up to its expectations of buffering Toronto's hard water down to a near-optimal level.

I will also be posting periodic updates of this substrate as well as my planted tank's progress through the use of Netlea.


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## CrystalMethShrimp

Leon did you get the shrimp or plant version?

My shrimp ver has been cycling for 4 days with 1 w/c 36 hours ago and the ph is still at 7.0 I didn leave a special sponge in there that absorbs ammonia for me to speed up cycling so that could of had an effect. In any case I've set a small cup (250ml) aside with 1/4 filled with soil. I'm hoping for better results but I'm not holding my breath. Such a pain in the rump to find high quality sub in Toronto. Either their fake, or last only a month, or they cost 300% more because of shipping.  ayi ya.

btw is that your JPRL in your avatar?


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## Beijing08

CrystalMethShrimp said:


> Leon did you get the shrimp or plant version?
> 
> My shrimp ver has been cycling for 4 days with 1 w/c 36 hours ago and the ph is still at 7.0 I didn leave a special sponge in there that absorbs ammonia for me to speed up cycling so that could of had an effect. In any case I've set a small cup (250ml) aside with 1/4 filled with soil. I'm hoping for better results but I'm not holding my breath. Such a pain in the rump to find high quality sub in Toronto. Either their fake, or last only a month, or they cost 300% more because of shipping.  ayi ya.
> 
> btw is that your JPRL in your avatar?


haha, no. That shrimp is worth $2500 USD (bred by Crimson JP); one of their most famous auctions 

well I have both substrates to test out. For this tank I'm using the shrimp substrate.

btw, just tested water for the shrimp soil (1" thickness): pH down to 7.0.
Gonna do a 95% water change tomorrow and see what happens.


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## Beijing08

Just did a 90% water change to get rid of the dust and a trace amount of ammonia. Before water change my pH was 7.1 with less than 1" of substrate. Will update pH tonight and full parameters tomorrow, perhaps when the tank stabilizes a bit.


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## CrystalMethShrimp

my tank is 1 inch front and slopes up to 2 inches in the back inside a 7 gallon.

My ph still reads 7.0


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## camboy012406

My ph still reads 7.0 [/QUOTE)

hahaha. did you ask the AI if it lowers ph in the first place? man, fluval shrimbpsubstrate lower ph after 3 hours using tap. you know what im thinking its fake like before. btw what is your ro water ph?


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## camboy012406

if your ro water reads 7.0 so that soil doesnt buffers the ph.


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## Beijing08

camboy012406 said:


> man, fluval shrimbpsubstrate lower ph after 3 hours using tap. you know what im thinking its fake like before.


I am Chinese, and I know for a fact that people have great success using this product in China (I'm on multiple Chinese forums). It's not all about lowering pH, planting soil has other elements to it that makes it ideal for plants. If you want to state your opinions about things, then so be it, but please provide proof if you were to say something like: "it's fake!!"

FYI the last shipment of ADA came from here: http://www.adana-usa.com/
*You can personally email the owners, George Lo & Steven Lo, about it if you want to confirm the transaction.
*
if you want "authentic" ADA, go order it from them direct.

also FYI AI is the first distributor of this product outside of China, and this time they received 360 bags of it. Next shipment is 9 tons; that is roughly 1000 bags. You do the math. Is it worth it bringing in fake stuff in such quantity?

This is the last time any discussion of the store AI will appear on this thread. *I've started this thread to do a review based a on new product*. Time will tell if it lowers pH or not. You can pm me and I'd be glad to discuss the entire issue. Further badmouthing will be reported.


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## camboy012406

I'm not saying its fake Im just assuming it can be coz it did happen to ada2 before. it doesnt lower ph, clouds water and etc. Many people from this forum had already lost their money and you know that also.


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## Beijing08

camboy012406 said:


> I'm not saying its fake Im just assuming it can be coz it did happen to ada2 before. it doesnt lower ph, clouds water and etc. Many people from this forum had already lost their money and you know that also.


fair enough  I like the wording better this time. I can't deny the fact that the previous shipment of ADA was crap.

Then you can sit tight and wait for my experience on this product.
If it turns out to be good, you should also pick up a few bags. 

on a side note, next ADA shipment arrives in 2 weeks or so. This time the full substrate system is included: tourmaline BC, Penac W, Bacter 100 etc.
and sure enough, more Aquasoil.


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## camboy012406

keep us update everyday then so we'll see if this product really lowers ph. man, its not for my own good but for the good of others specially members on this forum. I don't want them to be upset like what happen to the ada2 before.


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## camboy012406

you should also pick up a few bags. 

after you tested it for a month.


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## Beijing08

camboy012406 said:


> keep us update everyday then so we'll see if this product really lowers ph.


you bet. 

but not EVERY DAY lol. = ="


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## ameekplec.

Folks, let's try not to conjecture too much - unless you have hard fast proof, then it's best not to besmirch a company based on a few observations.

Last warning.

Beijing, does this substrate stay down nicely? I've heard from a few people and an LFS that the Fluval stuff tends to be very light and gets blown around a bit.


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## Beijing08

ameekplec. said:


> Folks, let's try not to conjecture too much - unless you have hard fast proof, then it's best not to besmirch a company based on a few observations.
> 
> Last warning.
> 
> Beijing, does this substrate stay down nicely? I've heard from a few people and an LFS that the Fluval stuff tends to be very light and gets blown around a bit.


That is correct Ameek.
It's even more dense than ADA. I swept it back and forth to test it today after adding water. I could shape it into a tiny mound. It's almost like gravel in a sense that vacuuming won't suck out too much of it if you keep the hose at an angle. The Fluval, on the other hand, is extremely light. I can say this because I've tried it as well.


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## ameekplec.

Might be time for my first trip to AI then


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## arc

The soil seems heavier and harder to break. I can crush the Fluval stuff(both plant and shrimp) between my fingers when it is wet but can't do it to the Netlea stuff without a lot of effort.

Do you guys have gh/kh readings for this? A friend is testing it and would like to know those reading as well.


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## Beijing08

ameekplec. said:


> Might be time for my first trip to AI then





arc said:


> The soil seems heavier and harder to break. I can crush the Fluval stuff(both plant and shrimp) between my fingers when it is wet but can't do it to the Netlea stuff without a lot of effort.
> 
> Do you guys have gh/kh readings for this? A friend is testing it and would like to know those reading as well.


Perfect description. I will have one along with my planted setup. Right now waiting for the CO2 equipment.

The thing with my shrimp soil is...I did a 90% water change last night (that's how I cycle my ADA), so I assume the readings are way off lol. Will keep you posted once the tank's done cycling.


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## Zebrapl3co

ameekplec. said:


> Might be time for my first trip to AI then


Just so you know, they share the store with a tap water filter company. It's hidden in the back of the filter store.

*Never pay again for live sex! | Hot girls doing naughty stuff for free! | Chat for free!*


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## ameekplec.

Good to know!


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## Beijing08

Day 2
I've used pure tap followed by a 90% water change yesterday. Now my pH is at 7.1. Note i only put down less than an inch of substrate in a 15g tank. Good buffering capacity; now It all comes down to its longevity.


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## CrystalMethShrimp

I've just had interesting results from my 250ml cup experiment. It's filled 1/3 with netlea. 

After 48 hours it still read 7.0ph just like my tank. 

However after I stirred the cup which produced cloudy water then let sit for 24 hours it now read 6.0 

Perhapes the fact that the soil is hard means it requires a bit of agitation to release the acid. 

My next step is to stir up the soil in my7gal tank and hope for the same effect. 
To test longevity I've replaced the 6.0 water in my 250ml cup with fresh tap water and have removed some of the used soil so now it's 1/4 full. Stirred again and hopefully it will fall back down to 6.0


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## Beijing08

CrystalMethShrimp said:


> I've just had interesting results from my 250ml cup experiment. It's filled 1/3 with netlea.
> 
> After 48 hours it still read 7.0ph just like my tank.
> 
> However after I stirred the cup which produced cloudy water then let sit for 24 hours it now read 6.0
> 
> Perhapes the fact that the soil is hard means it requires a bit of agitation to release the acid.
> 
> My next step is to stir up the soil in my7gal tank and hope for the same effect.
> To test longevity I've replaced the 6.0 water in my 250ml cup with fresh tap water and have removed some of the used soil so now it's 1/4 full. Stirred again and hopefully it will fall back down to 6.0


Those are odd observations...but nonetheless profound.
Anyhow, Jay, isn't it a little late to start your contest tank?


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## CrystalMethShrimp

I've just had interesting results from my 250ml cup experiment. It's filled 1/3 with netlea. 

After 48 hours it still read 7.0ph just like my tank. 

However after I stirred the cup which produced cloudy water then let sit for 24 hours it now read 6.0 

Perhapes the fact that the soil is hard means it requires a bit of agitation to release the acid. 

My next step is to stir up the soil in my7gal tank and hope for the same effect. 
To test longevity I've replaced the 6.0 water in my 250ml cup with fresh tap water and have removed some of the used soil so now it's 1/4 full. Stirred again and hopefully it will fall back down to 6.0


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## CrystalMethShrimp

Beijing08 said:


> Those are odd observations...but nonetheless profound.
> Anyhow, Jay, isn't it a little late to start your contest tank?


It sure is but that's why I have 2 tanks. In my contest tank going to stick with ada.


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## ameekplec.

Hey Leon, how many bags of this would you need for 1" in a 20 long?


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## Beijing08

ameekplec. said:


> Hey Leon, how many bags of this would you need for 1" in a 20 long?


30x12 ? very nice footprint for shrimp =)
1 bag is enough, Eric.


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## ameekplec.

Really? Nice.

Now just to fine the time to get out there


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## jon021

I just picked up a bag of the netlea soil for shrimps today, i've reset my tank with the help from Leon  so i'll try to post some readings of my params after i quick cycle it. The soil is definitely heavier and more solid than fluval, and its not as messy. I also like the look of it, looks alot more natural, actually reminds m of ecocomplete.


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## igor.kanshyn

Beijing08 said:


> Day 2
> I've used pure tap followed by a 90% water change yesterday. Now my pH is at 7.1. Note i only put down less than an inch of substrate in a 15g tank. Good buffering capacity; now It all comes down to its longevity.


Is it plant or shrimp version?
Do you have filter there? What about your current?

What about ammonia?

I've cleaned a tank to try my bag of Shrimp Netlea, but still was not able to start a tank


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## CrystalMethShrimp

If you recall from my last test I had the cup 1/3 full of soil and it gave me 6.0ph

then i poured some soil out to about 1/4 in the cup and refilled it with fresh tap water. The ph stayed at 7.0 for 2 days which was disappointing results either from the soil itself or maybe we just have very hard water in toronto. 

I then began thinking, how come the soil works initially but after a 90% w/c in my cup it's depleted. Beijing we both have the same results from a w/c but Srolls who didn't change his water is maintaining a wonderful 6.0 is the longevity on this soil this terrible??...or is there something else... ??

I quickly got a fork and began to break apart ( 10-20 granules) some of the soil inside the cup, keeping in mind that many of you have posted how hard and dense this soil was. Perhaps the acidic component was trapped deep in the soil and meant to be released slowly over months. This way the soil will still be active in the long run, as it was intended to.
Low and behold 5 hours later, cause that's how much sleep I get, ph is now down to 6.6! a beautiful pale lime green. 

My next obvious step would be break apart some more soil into dust and just sprinkle it into my 7 gallon and hopefully that will sustain the low ph.


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## CrystalMethShrimp

igor.kanshyn said:


> Is it plant or shrimp version?
> Do you have filter there? What about your current?
> 
> What about ammonia?
> 
> I've cleaned a tank to try my bag of Shrimp Netlea, but still was not able to start a tank


There is a slight ammonia but much less then Ada. My ammonia and no2 are almost gone. IMO I would only add 70% of the soil when cycling because you require the w/c to prevent algae and to speed up cycling. When it's almost complete do a 75% w/c with r/o water and add the rest of the 30% to jump start that low ph.


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## Zebrapl3co

CrystalMethShrimp said:


> If you recall from my last test I had the cup 1/3 full of soil and it gave me 6.0ph...


You might want to try the same trick with your ADA soil.

*Never pay again for live sex! | Hot girls doing naughty stuff for free! | Chat for free!*


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## Beijing08

CrystalMethShrimp said:


> Low and behold 5 hours later, cause that's how much sleep I get, ph is now down to 6.6! a beautiful pale lime green.
> .


Fabulous results Meth. I'm sure it's not supposed to be used like that but hey...we'll do whatever it takes 



jon021 said:


> I just picked up a bag of the netlea soil for shrimps today, i've reset my tank with the help from Leon  so i'll try to post some readings of my params after i quick cycle it. The soil is definitely heavier and more solid than fluval, and its not as messy. I also like the look of it, looks alot more natural, actually reminds m of ecocomplete.


waiting for your results and readings Jon 



igor.kanshyn said:


> Is it plant or shrimp version?
> Do you have filter there? What about your current?
> 
> What about ammonia?
> 
> I've cleaned a tank to try my bag of Shrimp Netlea, but still was not able to start a tank


To answer these questions, Igor:
- Shrimp (I have both plant and shrimp, but my planted tank isn't ready for rescape)
- I did not test ammonia. LOL
- I have a power filter for now...current was quite good. During initial cycling I used two power filters and 1 was stuff with floss to get rid of the dust particles. 
- They have a decent flow.


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## CrystalMethShrimp

Zebrapl3co said:


> You might want to try the same trick with your ADA soil.


Great idea zebra.
I'm actually beginning to think that we have very hard water in toronto.

Most soils seem to do well in places like japan, china, and vancouver. This should be determined when I order a bag of Gex from frank on his next shipment. If the gex has trouble lowering pH then it's our water's problem.


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## camboy012406

, keeping in mind that many of you have posted how hard and dense this soil was. Perhaps the acidic component was trapped deep in the soil and meant to be released slowly over months. This way the soil will still be active in the long run, as it was intended to.
Low and behold 5 hours later, cause that's how much sleep I get, ph is now down to 6.6! a beautiful pale lime green. 


if that case, boil the soil


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## jimmyjam

I have 3 bags of net.. Im going to put 2 in a 28 gallon in a few weeks as soon as my lights come in. I will be testing testing and posting the results online as well.

I am also offering you guys to come on by during that weekend to all put this tank together, perhaps we can do some presentation have some lunch etc. let me know what you think. Leon I know your down. 
Great thread by the way.


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## Jackson

Are you guys not worried that when doing water changes you will cause a huge ph swing? Won't that kill your shrimp?


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## jimmyjam

On the topic of Fluval soil. I have my 15 in that soil but I hate it for how light and big the soil is. It will be hard to work with it in the long run, and it is a hard soil to work with when starting up to keep the larger plants down. For the price, I rather get Nisso, Aquasoil or even eco if im not keeping rare shrimps.


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## Byronicle

Jackson said:


> Are you guys not worried that when doing water changes you will cause a huge ph swing? Won't that kill your shrimp?


yeah I am also curious to know.

also are any of you guys injecting co2 along with the netlea that is giving you the low pH readings?


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## Beijing08

Jackson said:


> Are you guys not worried that when doing water changes you will cause a huge ph swing? Won't that kill your shrimp?


Good question. We never change more than 15% of the water. With the soil's buffering capacity, the minute change in ph wont be harmful. However, given toronto's high kh breeders use ro mix


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## ameekplec.

OT, but what RO/tap mix are you using for WCs with Netlea? Are you using prime/amquel on the tap?


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## Beijing08

ameekplec. said:


> OT, but what RO/tap mix are you using for WCs with Netlea? Are you using prime/amquel on the tap?


I havent really changed water yet lol its only been 4 days. I will have to figure out a schedule. In the mean time, the shrimp seem to enjoy this soil


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## Beijing08

jimmyjam said:


> I am also offering you guys to come on by during that weekend to all put this tank together, perhaps we can do some presentation have some lunch etc. let me know what you think. Leon I know your down.


Yesssiirrrrr I certainly am


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## Kerohime

Beijing08 said:


> Yesssiirrrrr I certainly am


You dorks! lol.

Thanks for teh thread leon, I'll be following it closely. 
I also just set up a shrimp tank with the Netlea shrimp substrate.


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## igor.kanshyn

I've set up my tank with Netlea today. We will see what it's capable for.

I really hope that my number will be better than yours 
If not, I will keep tigers there


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## Beijing08

igor.kanshyn said:


> I've set up my tank with Netlea today. We will see what it's capable for.
> 
> I really hope that my number will be better than yours
> If not, I will keep tigers there


I've only used less than 1" of this substrate. If you throw in 2"+ it should show better results than mine 
Either way, it's good. Tigers require their parameters too


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## CrystalMethShrimp

jimmyjam said:


> I have 3 bags of net.. Im going to put 2 in a 28 gallon in a few weeks as soon as my lights come in. I will be testing testing and posting the results online as well.
> 
> I am also offering you guys to come on by during that weekend to all put this tank together, perhaps we can do some presentation have some lunch etc. let me know what you think. Leon I know your down.
> Great thread by the way.


That's a good idea Jimmy,
We could also make it a photo journal for the forum. Hope we get a aquascape section on here.

Leon I crushed about a handful of soil and tossed it into my 7 gal. Now my ph is down to 6.6 hehe.. 
I think this ph can be maintained with r/o w/c.


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## ThaChingster

How many bags would I need for a 38 gallon?
I want to either use netlea, or dirt + sand


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## jon021

ThaChingster said:


> How many bags would I need for a 38 gallon?
> I want to either use netlea, or dirt + sand


I used half a bag to fill my 8 gal with a bit over 2 inches of the netlea, so it depends on how thick of a layer you want for your tank.


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## Beijing08

ThaChingster said:


> How many bags would I need for a 38 gallon?
> I want to either use netlea, or dirt + sand


If you want a fully planted, two and a half bags seems about right. you'll need a slope in the back for stem plants.


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## Kerohime

There were some air bubbles trapped at the very bottom of the substrate. I think I had over 2 inches of the substrate in some places (I sloped the soil slightly). 

And now theres a weird algae/sulfonated smell coming from my tank... ever since I gave them half a scoop of tonic pro... Which freaks me out alot considering it might be anaerobic production of hydrogen sulfide. Should I stir out the bubbles a bit or will that poison my tank (if its H2S)?
The shrimp are looking very active still and the plants are growing pretty well, water is still crystal clear. =x


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## matti2uude

What Ph is everyone getting using the Netlea?


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## camboy012406

so the soil ph goes lower?


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## jon021

matti2uude said:


> What Ph is everyone getting using the Netlea?


After running my tank for a week, i'm getting a ph reading of 6.0 and i used regular tap water. Leon told me that it should balance out to 6.5-6.8 over time. So far i'm happy with the netlea, looks natural unlike the fluval. It's also alot easier to plant in.


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## Beijing08

My pH is 6.0 as well, with 3/4" and some almond leaves


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## Kerohime

Tested the pH today and it was 6.0, I think I have at least an inch of the substrate, and one almond leaf.


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## camboy012406

nice to hear that guys


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## matti2uude

Thanks for the replies. It seems like it's working good for you.


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## Byronicle

Beijing08 said:


> If you want a fully planted, two and a half bags seems about right. you'll need a slope in the back for stem plants.


hey i am curious to why you need a slope in the back for the stem plants?


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## CrystalMethShrimp

Loving this soil.

mine is 6.7ph right now~!!! and thats with tap water and a 90% w/c.

with R/O it should be much lower.

you slope at rear for perception. The viewer can see the back better and gets an overall view of your scape, however if your going to fill it densely with rooted plants it won't make a difference.


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## Byronicle

CrystalMethShrimp said:


> you slope at rear for perception. The viewer can see the back better and gets an overall view of your scape, however if your going to fill it densely with rooted plants it won't make a difference.


thanks  makes sense to me


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## CrystalMethShrimp

Byronicle said:


> thanks  makes sense to me


 anytime buddy


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## Greg_o

My first thoughts on this is it's a pleasure to scape with. So firm and dense, seems to compact slightly and hold it's shape better than ADA, Flaval, Eco Complete etc.


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## Beijing08

Greg_o said:


> My first thoughts on this is it's a pleasure to scape with. So firm and dense, seems to compact slightly and hold it's shape better than ADA, Flaval, Eco Complete etc.


you spoke my mind, Greg


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## COFFEE PLANS

NETLEA Is a very good soil. But many people do not know，Using this soil, plants will grow very well, and fast-growing。


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## Beijing08

For some awesome growth, check this out: http://www.gtaaquaria.com/forum/showthread.php?p=183224#post183224

pH 6.1 in pure tap water


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## igor.kanshyn

My pH was 6.0 yesterday.
But I did small changes (20% in total for a week) and there still some air between soil granules.


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## Beijing08

Okay folks..with less than 1" of the Shrimp Soil, my pH has leveled and has retained a reading of 6.8. Upon three weeks of testing, this product has definitely been proven successful in buffering Toronto's tap water down to a more "optimal" level. In addition, the TDS of this tank is slightly lower - at 152ppm - than Downtown's tap water (170ppm).

On a side note, I have just started my roommate's Fluval Ebi Tank with the *Planting Soil*. Let's hope the results will be similar, if not better, than my current tank.


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## bettaforu

OK I have a question...I got some of the Netlea soil, have about 1+ inch in my 8 gallon tank. So far (5 days) since it was set up, have sponge filter and inside filter and some plants, driftwood and dragon lace rock.

My PH is 6.2 but I still see trace amount of ammonia showing on the test...0.25. I want to know if this would be a problem if I put in some of my CRS...I put in some cherries to see if they could handle it and they are happy as all heck! Indestructable shrimps LOL.

Should I do a water change....what do you suggest? You guys are all up on the parameters more than I, so figured I ask the experts


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## Greg_o

Leave it and allow the tank to completely cycle. Yes cherrys are hardy, CRS as you know, not so much.


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## CrystalMethShrimp

you can leave it.

f you want to speed things up what I did was multiple water changes which brought my ph up to 7.0 eventually when my cycling was complete. 1.5 weeks.

in order to bring ph back down just reach into the tank and crumble a handful, this stuff is very hard to break apart which is why it lasts so long, but also why it takes a long time to bring the ph from 7 back down to 6.4 without crumbling.


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## Kerohime

The readings on an ammonia test detects NH3 or NH4+. When you are at lower pH there are excess hydrogen ions in the water which form the Ammonium (NH4) which is supposed to be less toxic than NH3. 

A cycled tank will eventually accumulate more aerobic bacteria which will convert the ammonia/ammonium into nitrites and nitrates. Nitrates are removed by plants, water changes, and depending on the filtration system you have by facultative anaerobic bacteria. It might help to add more cycle into the tank to facilitate this process.


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## Greg_o

I would never rely on water changes alone to protect shrimp from the effects of the cycle.


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## igor.kanshyn

*Ammonia*

I haven't checked ammonia in my first tank with Netlea soil. I just waited 2 weeks until it become stable.

With the second tank, I wanted to start using it faster, but it appeared not to be so easy 
Netlea release ammonia in the first day and it's quite concentrated.

Look at the picture: 


Note, that this 4ppm is for a tank with only part of the water added.
Look at the more detailed post about this here: Netlea Shrimp soil produces ammonia at the beginning

Be careful with putting your shrimps into a tank. Wait, change water, test it ...


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## ameekplec.

If you only filled your tank to 25%, then it would reason that really it sits at about 1 ppm with a full tank.

Also, because you're running a 25% full tank, I'd assume you have no filter going - try running the tank full with a filter and see where that takes you for amonia readings.

Forwhatever it's worth, I filled and planted my tank the same day, waited a few days for the filter to stabilize (filter was from a mature tank), then added my JPRL CRS only after I was reasonably sure that it was stable.

I'd guess with almost any planted tank substrate you'll get an ammonia spike at the beginning due to a sharp release of any nutrients within the soils.

I'm very happy with my choice to move to this soil for the current tank. It's a pleasure to plant in and the shrimps love turning it over and picking away at it. Also, my staurogyne has absolutely exploded in this substrate - there's already a few new shoots coming up from each cutting I started with.


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## igor.kanshyn

Right, 25% of water and no filter.
In fact, I just 'wash' a substrate that way. I assume this will speed up starting of a tank and stabilize substrate affect to a water. By making several big water changes I will diminish initial effect of the soil.
I use only one bucket of water to reduce amount of work required there 

Any plants love that soil. This algae tank has been created with


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## solarz

ameekplec. said:


> If you only filled your tank to 25%, then it would reason that really it sits at about 1 ppm with a full tank.


Not necessarily. If the substrate continuously release ammonia, then it will keep releasing ammonia even in a full tank until it reaches an equilibrium concentration.


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## igor.kanshyn

solarz said:


> Not necessarily. If the substrate continuously release ammonia, then it will keep releasing ammonia even in a full tank until it reaches an equilibrium concentration.


That was results for 1 day. Erick's calculations were correct 

But you also right, it can release more ammonia. We will see that today evening.


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## Beijing08

igor.kanshyn said:


> That was results for 1 day. Erick's calculations were correct
> 
> But you also right, it can release more ammonia. We will see that today evening.


Igor did U take down the blue tiger tank already? High efficiency i must say


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## igor.kanshyn

*ammonia, next step*



Beijing08 said:


> Igor did U take down the blue tiger tank already? High efficiency i must say


Yes, it was that one.

So, today it was only 2ppm ammonia for 25% of water.
I've removed that water, filled a tank and hanged on a filter.

I wrote about that ammonia stuff, because some other soils like Fluval Stratum doesn't release any ammonia in the beginning and can be used for putting livestock in the same day after set up. Of course, cycled filter is required


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## COFFEE PLANS

igor.kanshyn said:


> I haven't checked ammonia in my first tank with Netlea soil. I just waited 2 weeks until it become stable.
> 
> With the second tank, I wanted to start using it faster, but it appeared not to be so easy
> Netlea release ammonia in the first day and it's quite concentrated.
> 
> Look at the picture:
> 
> 
> Note, that this 4ppm is for a tank with only part of the water added.
> Look at the more detailed post about this here: Netlea Shrimp soil produces ammonia at the beginning
> 
> Be careful with putting your shrimps into a tank. Wait, change water, test it ...


This concentration is NH3 or NH4 +? If you do not know, NH4+ or NH3, HN4 + toxic for fish, poisonous fish and shrimp, or NH3. PH is and how much? . under ph 7.0 , NH4 + content was also much?


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## Kerohime

COFFEE PLANS said:


> This concentration is NH3 or NH4 +? If you do not know, NH4+ or NH3, HN4 + toxic for fish, poisonous fish and shrimp, or NH3. PH is and how much? . under ph 7.0 , NH4 + content was also much?


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## qwerty

> This concentration is NH3 or NH4 +? If you do not know, NH4+ or NH3, HN4 + toxic for fish, poisonous fish and shrimp, or NH3. PH is and how much? . under ph 7.0 , NH4 + content was also much?


NH4+ is ammonium. NH3 is ammonia. Ammonia (NH3) is toxic, ammonium (NH4+) is not.

When ammonia is mixed with water, some of the ammonia will receive another hydrogen, creating ammonium. Acidic water has more hydrogen available, and therefore more of the ammonia can become ammonium.

Since the two are so closely related and entirely dependent on pH, it's probably more practical to just think of them both as "ammonia" with the mental note that "ammonia" is less toxic at lower pH.


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## igor.kanshyn

qwerty said:


> NH4+ is ammonium. NH3 is ammonia. Ammonia (NH3) is toxic, ammonium (NH4+) is not.
> 
> When ammonia is mixed with water, some of the ammonia will receive another hydrogen, creating ammonium. Acidic water has more hydrogen available, and therefore more of the ammonia can become ammonium.
> 
> Since the two are so closely related and entirely dependent on pH, it's probably more practical to just think of them both as "ammonia" with the mental note that "ammonia" is less toxic at lower pH.


That's a perfect explanation!


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## igor.kanshyn

*It's still 2ppm ammonia in the tank*

So, after changing all water to a fresh one 6 days ago, I currently have 2ppm of ammonia in netlea substrate tank again.

I have a cycled filter working there and two unlucky cherry shrimps.

I've added some plants and will add more, ... waiting for ammonia to go away ...


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## alexxa

i am still suffering from high ammonia level after a month of cycling


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## Greg_o

Patience, the wait is def. worthwhile.


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## getochkn

I posted this on plantedtank but thought it may useful in this thread as well.



So I setup a tank 3+ weeks ago with netlea soil. It has been steady leeching ammonia according to my API test kit at 4ppm for those 3 weeks. Doing a WC only drops it for a moment, then its back up to 4ppm. I moved some plants over a few low grade crystal hitchhiked, so I left them. They did fine. Had to move my snowballs as the tank dividers are crap and they were getting into the cherry side. They did fine, molted, saddled and berried in the tank. Yesterday my current crystal tank crashed and huge bacteria bloom/milk water that you can't see through, 2 dead juvi crystals, so I moved the rest over, probably 35 crystals S/SS/SSS grade, berried moms, the whole lot of them, so several hundred dollars in crystals into a 4ppm ammonia tank. 

After seeing the chart on aquajournal that shows the ADA line leeches NH4+ and not NH3, I was curious as to if its toxic ammonia (NH3) these soils leech, or harmless ammonium (NH4+). Standard test kits can't tell the difference and always measure the total ammonia NH3 & NH4+ in our water. 

In addition, at a low pH (around 6.0 right now from my soil) there is free hydrogen atoms in the water, NH3 is hungry for hydrogen and will bind with it to form NH4+. In a higher than 7 pH, ammonia becomes more toxic, but at a low pH it because neutral.

So to test this I ordered a seachem free/total ammonia test kit and just ran the tests.

0 ppm free ammonia (NH3-toxic)
3-4 ppm total ammonia (NH4+-harmless at low pH)

So either these soils don't leech a harmful type in the first place or the low pH keeps it neutralized but either way, its harmless despite getting a high reading from a basic test kit.

My next test is to take some fresh netlea in a cup with some water, try and use some high pH water so I can test when the pH is around 7 and just under, it which it shouldn't be affected by many free hydrogen atoms and get a reading to see if its leeching NH4+ or if its the pH affecting it. I also run Purigen in the filter which can neutralize ammonia as well, but I'm not sure if it does it in a converting to NH4+ form or otherwise, so I'm hoping my test will eliminate the Purigen and 6.0 pH factors and give a reading if its really harmful ammonia that is leeching from these soils.

On that note, this is my test and my findings for my own personal testing and because I had to move over my crystals last night and not risk anymore deaths. If anyone takes this information and moves a $1000 of shrimp into a 4ppm Amazonia soil tank or something and looses them, I accept no blame. Follow this advice at your risk, but I thought it was interesting since these soils leech for so long and people try massive WC's and hate waiting months for it to finish leeching, that it may help if you are in that situation, a $13 Seachem Free/Total ammonia test kit will show you what kind of ammonia is really in your tank.

I just saw some crystal molts, all the berried moms have their eggs still, everyone seems fine in the tank.

pH 6.0
gH 4-5
kH 0-1
TDS 190
Temp 72F
Nitrite 0ppm
Nitrate 5ppm
Ammonia 4ppm (0ppm is harmful)


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## coldmantis

mine only took around 1-1.5 weeks for the ammonia to go 0, this is with 50% cycled water on a 40g breeder, cycled ehiem 2217 and 70-80% plant converage from day one.


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## Consigliere

Just heard about this product today. I'm looking for substrate for this tank:

http://gtaaquaria.com/forum/showthread.php?p=219185

Where do you buy this Netlea? How much? What are the colour options?


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## df001

Aquatic kingdom in mississauga has it, and i think Aqua inspiration has it as well, idk about price though.


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## getochkn

Consigliere said:


> Just heard about this product today. I'm looking for substrate for this tank:
> 
> http://gtaaquaria.com/forum/showthread.php?p=219185
> 
> Where do you buy this Netlea? How much? What are the colour options?


They have it at Aqua Inspirations. Color is a dark brown.

http://www.aquainspiration.com/productdetail.asp?PIN=SS&PNAME=NTL&PSIZE=NBS9L&PTYPE=Aqua Soil


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## Consigliere

Thanks for the info. Checking on pricing for 12-15 bags.


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## andrewdingemans

Sorry for revival of this thread, but wondering if I can mix this soil with existing substrate just so i don't kill off existing bio and possibly reduce the possibility of nitrites. I have fish already in my tank and don't want any casualties.


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## getochkn

andrewdingemans said:


> Sorry for revival of this thread, but wondering if I can mix this soil with existing substrate just so i don't kill off existing bio and possibly reduce the possibility of nitrites. I have fish already in my tank and don't want any casualties.


The soil is going to leech ammonia for 1-2-3 months, especially the planted stuff, so you don't really want to add it to an existing tank unless you run the soil in another tank for 1-3 months to get all the ammonia out of it.


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## andrewdingemans

getochkn said:


> The soil is going to leech ammonia for 1-2-3 months, especially the planted stuff, so you don't really want to add it to an existing tank unless you run the soil in another tank for 1-3 months to get all the ammonia out of it.


I was afraid of that, I told the guy at AI I was putting it in a fully planted fully stocked existing tank. Are there any good soils I can use that are safe for use with existing tanks?


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## df001

Iirc eco-complete should be fine, rinse well and add it slowly? If you read up on it you'll see it has a high cation exchange capacity. Which iirc means it pulls nutrients out of the water column holding them in a bioavail form for the roots


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## andrewdingemans

I have a bag of that, was planning to use. Do you know if I uses some ammo-chips from API (removes Ammonia) if that will keep the levels low, or should I not try to test my luck with mature plants and fish and run the risk of loosing some/all


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## df001

The issue with the chips is they will only adsorb?absorb so much. And once their capacity is met, your back at square one.


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## andrewdingemans

The api ones say they can be recharged with salt. I am just wondering how much of it I would go through in a few months. I'm not comfortable using it so I'm going to mix the eco-complete with my existing substrate.


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## igor.kanshyn

andrewdingemans said:


> I was afraid of that, I told the guy at AI I was putting it in a fully planted fully stocked existing tank. Are there any good soils I can use that are safe for use with existing tanks?


What is your goal?

If you need a good soil for plants, use Eco-complete or Flourite gravel/sand. They will not release any ammonia.

If you need a good sunstrate for Crystal red of other softwater shrimps, you can use Akadamia or Fluval Stratum (it's not good for a long run, but will help for about 3 month). These substrates are not leaching ammonia as well.

Netlia and ADA will release ammonia after you add them to a tank.


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## qualityshrimpz

i just bought a bag of netlea black/brown soil, going to put it in my tank i am starting right now... any thing i should be looking out for?


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## default

qualityhitz said:


> i just bought a bag of netlea black/brown soil, going to put it in my tank i am starting right now... any thing i should be looking out for?


Nope, I've always had great success with it. However, I've always found it very acidic the first time around - more than ADA, fine for the plants, but kinda harsh for anything not suitable for low ph.
Also, just like ADA, the bag would have debris like string, plastic, or wood/grass - remove these.
Good luck!


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## hendy8888

default said:


> Nope, I've always had great success with it. However, I've always found it very acidic the first time around - more than ADA, fine for the plants, but kinda harsh for anything not suitable for low ph.
> Also, just like ADA, the bag would have debris like string, plastic, or wood/grass - remove these.
> Good luck!


Do you prefer the Netlea Brown or Ada for your planted tanks? I have only used the Netlea and have always wondered if Ada is worth the extra cash.


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## default

hendy8888 said:


> Do you prefer the Netlea Brown or Ada for your planted tanks? I have only used the Netlea and have always wondered if Ada is worth the extra cash.


I find the ADA looks better as it's darker than the netlea. However in terms of growth, not much of a difference, but the ADA does have more variance in size which helps with rooting. I currently use a mixture in my cube and would recommend either one, the netlea is much more budget friendly in larger tanks.


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## jimmyjam

I do find ADA has better growth in the long run ( I have a tank thats 6 years old in my clinic and still doing well) The old netlea had no issues for about 2 years, but 3rd year wasnt as good. Netlea came out with a new formula, Ill let you know how that is once I get mine in my tank this week.


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## hendy8888

What's the new formula called and are you getting it from AI? Please let us know how you like it.


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## arturo

I just grabbed a bag of this stuff for a nano i'm working on. I probably should have got a better look at the bag, but it was the only type AI currently carries and could very well be the new formula.

Could anyone confirm if this stuff leaches ammonia? I was kind of hoping it would so i can start my cycle.


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## cb1021

Yes it does leech ammonia.


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## arturo

cb1021 said:


> Yes it does leech ammonia.


awesome thank you! So basically, just treat it like ADA then?


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## jimmyjam

yup pretty much bud.


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## vincel892

Sorry for reviving old thread, but is it normal for water to have a brown tint with the netlea soil? I do a 50% water change every week and by the end of the week, my water has a brownish tint. not sure if its due to the soil or something else. I;ve been having problems with algae so im not sure if this is causing the brownish tint or the soil.


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## solarz

vincel892 said:


> Sorry for reviving old thread, but is it normal for water to have a brown tint with the netlea soil? I do a 50% water change every week and by the end of the week, my water has a brownish tint. not sure if its due to the soil or something else. I;ve been having problems with algae so im not sure if this is causing the brownish tint or the soil.


Yes it's normal. It will go away on its own after a few weeks.


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## vincel892

solarz said:


> Yes it's normal. It will go away on its own after a few weeks.


Hm okay. Thanks for letting me know


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## default

vincel892 said:


> Sorry for reviving old thread, but is it normal for water to have a brown tint with the netlea soil? I do a 50% water change every week and by the end of the week, my water has a brownish tint. not sure if its due to the soil or something else. I;ve been having problems with algae so im not sure if this is causing the brownish tint or the soil.


How long has the soil been in the tank? Is there wood? Netlea soils have never released any colour in my tanks, I've had around 20 bags of it too.


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## vincel892

default said:


> How long has the soil been in the tank? Is there wood? Netlea soils have never released any colour in my tanks, I've had around 20 bags of it too.


its been in there quite a while. try to start my tank at one point in time, neglected it for at least a year and now starting again. So I think its been in there a while. That is why Im still debating whether its actually the soil. There is no wood in the tank at all.


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## solarz

vincel892 said:


> its been in there quite a while. try to start my tank at one point in time, neglected it for at least a year and now starting again. So I think its been in there a while. That is why Im still debating whether its actually the soil. There is no wood in the tank at all.


I remember reading on the Netlea bag that the soil will tint harder water. If you still have the bag, you can check it.


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## vincel892

solarz said:


> I remember reading on the Netlea bag that the soil will tint harder water. If you still have the bag, you can check it.


I threw out the bags but that is good to know. My kH is ~6 if that is even a measure of water hardness


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## solarz

vincel892 said:


> I threw out the bags but that is good to know. My kH is ~6 if that is even a measure of water hardness


Is that kH 6 out of the tap or in the tank? If in the tank, then your netlea isn't working anymore.


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## vincel892

solarz said:


> Is that kH 6 out of the tap or in the tank? If in the tank, then your netlea isn't working anymore.


It's kH 6 in the tank. What do you mean by not working anymore?


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## solarz

vincel892 said:


> It's kH 6 in the tank. What do you mean by not working anymore?


Sorry, I had shrimp soil in mind when I read the thread, so I was referring to the soil's pH buffering capacity. If you're not keeping caridina then the kH doesn't matter.


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