# Help with maintaining red plants & pearling



## mojo911 (Jan 25, 2010)

Hey GTAA, any ideas on how to maintain the beautiful red colours of store bought plants? I've had some success with Sunset Hygros and L.repens only when the leaves reach to the top and get blasted by 4WPG T5HO lights. As some of you know thats just the cheating method.. the plant colour ideally should be uniform throughout the stem. I've tried insane amounts of iron dosing and it doesn't work.

My second question is about pearling.. I know its not something I should be aiming for but I just want to know at least once that my plants are thriving and I can achieve it. I see millions of posts of people getting pearling like its the simplest feat and it makes me feel like I've done everything wrong.

My planted tank is a 40 gallon breeder.. in the beginning I had:
-2x39w T5HO
-9 to 10 hour photoperiod on timer
-Pool filter sand substrate
-2 bottles of DIY CO2 running through elite mini filter diffuser
-Dosing daily with 4ml pps-pro and 1 capful of Seachem Flourish and Iron
No results except I was starting to get a minor case of what I thought was BBA... very thin strands though, looked nothing like the big tuffs of black hair I see on pictures online. This tank was maintained like this for about 6 months.

Since then I've upgraded to:
-4x39w T5HO
-8 Hour photoperiod on timer (adjusted so my plant's leaves start curling up before lights out)
-Flourite substrate
-Pressurized CO2 through cannister intake (1hr before lights on/off)
-Drop checker green throughout the day (this is about 3-4bps.. any higher and a few my sensitive fish start to gasp)
-EI Dosing NPK/Trace as per guideline and still supplement with Flourish Iron

In both tanks my growth was good but not what I would call lush and thick. Even my Riccia AKA *crystalwort* quadrupled in size but not pearling. Surprisingly my tanks have always been algae free even with 4x39 T5HO... only get a bit of green spot algae built up on the glass every 30ish days. I miss a maximum of 1 or 2 days of dosing every month due to busy schedule.

Any thoughts on whats going on?


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## waj8 (Jun 30, 2010)

I cannot see a single thing you are doing wrong. Sometimes it just takes time for things to get going. It appears the surface of your water has bubbles in it. I get that from oxygen bubbles streaming to the surface. I would not complain about your results much, looks good to me. Luwidgia Repens should be very red under your light levels. It's a mystery to me too. EI should cover all your nutrient needs. CO2 is good. Substrate is great. Dunno. What lamps are you using and do they have parabolic reflectors?


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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

The bubble thing ... did you measure your CO2 ppm? If anything, at the very least, your ricca should have bubbled.
People also get their tank to bubble by doing a water change, not the real deal but it works.
As for the redness, that depends on your HO light. You need a different spectrum to make it more red. ... let me see if I can find it ...

Edit:
Wow, kind of hard to find for some reason. But one example is the Coralife brand, ColorMax full-spectrum. Just replace one or two of your bulb with this kind of light and it should promote the redness.

An impressive hard scape by the way. You just need to play around with plants to make it picture perfect.

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## Greg_o (Mar 4, 2010)

Some good points made so far.

Curious if there are any users of PPS Pro that could comment? I have been using this method for a few months and have very little pearling. Growth seems fast but just feels like something is lacking. Starting to think this fertalizing regime may be the weakest link.


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## mojo911 (Jan 25, 2010)

Thanks for the reply everyone. This hobby requires so much patience but I've had each tank setup run somewhere around 6-8 months each. That should be enough time for results I believe?

I've bought some beautiful red/pink Rotalas and L.Aromatica from Jimmyjam (local source) and R.Indica from Menagerie (plant farms) that both turn green about 1-2 weeks after being in the tank and it just puzzles me. The plants you see in the middle/back are suppose to be R.Indicas and Rotala Rotundifolias...

The bubbles on my surface was when I had too much co2 built up in my rena xp2 and it burps it out as a mist. My 4x39w T5HO lights i'm using are AquaticLife brand which looks like it has good reflectors. 2 bulbs are stock bulbs.. which I believe are 6700k/roseate combo. Then I replaced the other 2 with the bulbs you mentioned Zebrapl3co... one Coralife 10k bulb and one colourmax plant growth bulb. This was about 5 months ago... the bulbs seem to have dimmed significantly since. 

I made my own 4DKH solution using a professional grade scale (I work in a pharmacy).. thats what I use to reference my co2.. also by observing my fish gasping.. I've tuned it down to the sweet point where they do not gasp and I still get a green drop checker.

My experience with pps-pro Greg_O is that my plant's growth was like wildfire.. I had to trim in less than a week.. except it was very vertical growth.. the stems dont thicken up as much as they did when I switched to EI.


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## Tark77 (Sep 6, 2010)

Something I noticed was the amount of surface agitation you may have, combined with the CO2 beind diffused through the canister. I see a spray bar to the left and second power head to the right. If you are moving too much water at the surface, the CO2 may be geting released from the tank.

What direction are you pointing your spray bar?


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## Tark77 (Sep 6, 2010)

I also question the need to be at 3-4 bps with pressurized CO2. It seems a little high. Are you diffusing your CO2 or putting it directly into the filter intake?


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## waj8 (Jun 30, 2010)

After pondering a bit more I have a couple of questions. What sort of reflectors are in your light fixture and how much water movement is in the tank? Poor reflectors can mean the bottom of the tank is not nearly as well lit as the top of the tank. Poor water circulation can starve plants of CO2 when they use up the CO2 right next to the leaves. 

I am really not sure if lamp spectrum makes that much of a difference. Light intensity obviously does though. The red color of many plants is a defense against intense lighting. 

Another thing to consider is the design of your light fixture. Some fixtures run the lamps at too high a temperature. This reduces light output and shortens lamp life. If there is no ventilation in your fixture this could also be a problem. Maybe your light is not as high as one would think given the number of watts of T5 lighting.


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

Here are some things you can experiment with to bring out some of your reds. Some work for some plants, others for others. Bringing out brilliant reds is often a case of trial and error. So here are some things I have had success with and that you can experiment with:

1) Increase your lighting - try another 2x 39w T5HO fixture - even if you just run one of the fixtures for 2-4 hours mid-day.

2) Decrease your co2 for a couple of weeks (try this after doing a trim, so new leaves/stems can be easier to judge)

3) Not sure if you have been measuring your nitrates (probably not since you are dosing EI), but you may have some luck in bringing out some reds by lowering your nitrates (or nitrogen source, whatever it may be). Try to bring it down to a measurable level of around 5ppm or so. Specifically, I've had luck with Limnophilia aromatica here.

4) Try a different micro source, I've heard time and time again that not all micro's are created equal!

5) Try any of these in combination!

Good luck, hope that helps some.


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## mojo911 (Jan 25, 2010)

Tark77/waj8: The powerhead you see on the right is a Koralia 2... I've recently added that because I've read on some plant forums about the importance of having good water circulation. I've always found rena xp2 to have very low output (at least looks like it to me).. so I've switched the spraybar from the back to the left side - spraying horizonal right and aimed a bit down towards the direct center of the tank. The koralia is aimed towards the center as well and has been added about 4 months ago. I try not to brake the surface of the water with any of my water movement. I have the CO2 tube cappd with an airstone which is all placed inside the cannister intake. Again I look at my fish as indication of CO2 levels more than I trust my drop checker... 3-4 bps seems to do it which I thought was excessive as well. Very interesting point though, let me know what you think about that. Everything about my tank seems irregular no?? LOL

I've tried to do some research about AquaticLife reflectors but there really isn't much info out there.. I don't know much about reflectors so I can't answer by just looking at them. Can anyone else comment about that brand? One thing I always found suspicious was how quickly new bulbs seem to dim. Also more importantly why I've never had any serious algae outbreaks when playing with so much light. I was under the impression I was suppose to be walking on a tightrope?

Chris_S: If going by just WPG, 4x39w T5HO is giving me 3.9wpg of HO lighting... I've read somewhere that plants can't use much past 4wpg?? I don't think I should be going 6x39w when others are achieving what I cannot with much much lower lighting etc. 

I haven't been testing nitrates but I've tried cutting back half dosage of NO3 and increasing PO4 to do the red plants trick. Nothing happened. I remember at some point later I tried increasing all my dosing by 1/2 for pearling incase I was bottoming out. Nothing. I think I'm gonna stop doing the estimative part and just go with test kits to see whats going on in there. Good news is I just ran out of Seachem Flourish and I'm starting this week with a new bottle of trace made from hydroponics trace elements. I will try your suggestions and wish for the best :]


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## waj8 (Jun 30, 2010)

Good reflectors are at least 3" wide and are individual for each lamp. They have a mirror like finish and the lamp is very close to the reflector. Check and make sure they are clean. If the fixture is mounted too high above the tank you will also lose a lot of light. I like my fixture within a few inches of the water. I use cheap commercial 865 phosphor lamps and the red plants are quite red. All lamps are very bright at first during the initial burn in period. After a couple of weeks they settle down to their rated output. After that they lose output very gradually over the life of the lamp unless the lamp or fixture is very poorly designed. You are positive your lamps are 39 watt and your fixture is designed for them correct? You might want to check the ballast wattage to be sure. A two lamp ballast should be rated at about 86 watts and draw about .73 amps. A 4 lamp ballast should be about twice that. I am really grasping at straws here as I doubt that's your problem but it really seems like you do not have a whole lot of light. Your plants should be red under that light level.


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

mojo911 said:


> I've tried to do some research about AquaticLife reflectors but there really isn't much info out there.. I don't know much about reflectors so I can't answer by just looking at them. Can anyone else comment about that brand? One thing I always found suspicious was how quickly new bulbs seem to dim. Also more importantly why I've never had any serious algae outbreaks when playing with so much light. I was under the impression I was suppose to be walking on a tightrope?
> 
> Chris_S: If going by just WPG, 4x39w T5HO is giving me 3.9wpg of HO lighting... I've read somewhere that plants can't use much past 4wpg?? I don't think I should be going 6x39w when others are achieving what I cannot with much much lower lighting etc.


In relation to other T5HO systems on the market, the aquatic life is somewhat on the low-end - compared to stuff like the ATI systems, your reflectors etc. just aren't as good. That doesn't mean the units won't work - Off the top of my head, I'd say your lighting is good.

As for increasing the lighting - the WPG rule is really useless for determining your light. Another reason for trying more light is that I have often read that many plants only bring out their true "red" as a defense mechanism to intense lighting. It is just an option to try, albeit maybe a more expensive one.



mojo911 said:


> I haven't been testing nitrates but I've tried cutting back half dosage of NO3 and increasing PO4 to do the red plants trick. Nothing happened. I remember at some point later I tried increasing all my dosing by 1/2 for pearling incase I was bottoming out. Nothing. I think I'm gonna stop doing the estimative part and just go with test kits to see whats going on in there. Good news is I just ran out of Seachem Flourish and I'm starting this week with a new bottle of trace made from hydroponics trace elements. I will try your suggestions and wish for the best :]


Good luck!


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## BillD (Jun 5, 2006)

How old are the tubes? There is a significant drop off and colour shift after about 6 months. Whether this has anything to do with the problem, would be purely speculation. It would seem you should have enough light. It seems to me, that pearling depends on the plants themselves, as some seem to pearl more obviously than others. As an example, my E. latifolius pearls like crazy, and it is growing under two (older than 1year) 32W 5000K T8s, in plain gravel. The plants have multiplied from around a dozen to over 500 in 5 months. Sometimes, you just need to find the right plants for your particular setup. I realize it isn't much help. Over the years I have propagated a lot of species of plant, and it is hit and miss with many of them. These E. latifolius grow like nothing I have ever seen.


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## waj8 (Jun 30, 2010)

One other thing, I wonder what type of ballast is in your fixture. Is it programmed start or instant start? Instant start ballasts are not too good for that type of lamp and could conceivably damage the lamps. Again, kind of grasping at straws but you never know. Seems like something is messed up.


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## BettaBeats (Jan 14, 2010)

I think the pearling only happens when the water is really oxygenated, and its the excess gas being let from the plants? it doesnt absorb into the surrounding water and creates 'pearling'. Also, stopping splashing of water from the powerheads and filter might work to slow down gas exchange. 

Another would be that the oxygen is storing at the roots of the plants and larger, less frequent bubbles happen (I saw this in my 10 after i had not saw pearls in a long time).

For the red plants, all the leaves need to be splashed with the amount of light that you see in the tops of your plants. It's like any stem plant that might get too bunched up - leaves get shaded from the full 4wpg, or the leaves melt away. 
Maybe it's the way the light is being cast from the lamps.


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## mojo911 (Jan 25, 2010)

Update guys!
As I mentioned before I finally ran out of my Seachem Flourish and recently been adding 1/16 tsp of dry CSM+B traces alternating days. Chris_S you were right, the changes were dramatic! I've finally seen pearling for the first time since setting up over a year ago!! My only explanation is that seachem's diluted trace mix was bottoming out very quickly due to very high lights, even when I was doubling the recommended dosage. The pearling started last night and again this morning 1 hour after lights on. 

I hope this helps anyone else out there trying to find answers as I've never found anything online that showed instant results from switching traces. I hope things don't change until I can verify my results over the next few days.

As for my red plants, I'm experimenting now with cutting back my NO3 dosing by 1/2 and will wait to see if there are any changes in a few weeks.

Thank you all for your input!


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

Good to hear!


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## BettaBeats (Jan 14, 2010)

wait, what did you use?

your liquid ferts were too weak? 


hrm.... let me know what you changed to (no abbreviations I seem to have a hard time understanding them) because I use seachem too. MY 10 is pearling like crazy today (for not pearling for a long time) but my 15 doesnt do anything


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## mojo911 (Jan 25, 2010)

I switched my micronutrients to dry trace powder instead of using liquid Seachem Flourish.

To be exact, I started using this: http://www.hydroponics.ca/dnf_sixpack.html
Pack#6 would be the trace mixture


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