# My favorite colour is baby blue :)



## MacFish (Jun 15, 2006)

Happy to report I have finally spawned some Electric Blue Jack Dempsey's!

It's been a long road and I still have a lot to learn about raising them but it is so nice to clear the first big hurdle. As far as I know, I'm only the second person in Canada to do it. A guy in BC is about a month ahead of me. There may be more people but I'm not sure. Every store I talk to still say they import theirs from the US or Asia.

Here are my first babies 



















These are 12 days free swimming today. I just went through and removed the regular JD and the Blue Gene JD's. It was a very small spawn from very young parents but out of 57 fry, I got 16 Blues. Not a bad ratio and pretty much bang on the 25% I was expecting. I am very surprised because I had a lot die off in the first few days and I expected them to be the blues.

This is a sibling pair which is really not ideal for breeding EBJD's since they are already very inbred. I am raising this spawn mainly for practice since it is quite a challenge raising and separating the Blues from the regulars. So far I'm doing pretty good but that could change any day 

I am trying to pair one of my best Blue Gene JD's (BGJD's) up to my large male EBJD and if I can do that, I will be able to produce some very good quality EBJD's. I also have a second line of BGJD's that I will attempt to pair to my BGJD's once they grow a bit more. They are much younger than mine so that may not happen until the summer.

All I need is bigger house and 20 or 30 more tanks and I'll be good to go!


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## Ciddian (Mar 15, 2006)

Fantastic!!!! I know you've been working at this for so long and its paid off! How wonderful! :3


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Congrats on hatching out the spawn, and good luck raising them!!


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## Calmer (Mar 9, 2008)

Incredible feat MacFish, congratulations.  Like most people on the forum here I have been silently following your posts on this for some time now. Just excellent!


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## Cory (May 2, 2008)

Congrats man! Hard to believe those guys will turn into such beauties. They look like my baby zebra obliquidens now with the stripes lol. Big accomplishment ! Way to go!


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## Riceburner (Mar 14, 2008)

And a big CONGRATS!!!

Well done. Looking forward to pics of them progressing.


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## pat3612 (Jan 29, 2008)

Congrats Mac you lucky duck If your parting with any in the future please please let me know . I finally got a few pics of mine sideways I will post them up tonight can you have a look and let me know what you think. Again congrats I know you have been working hard on your breeding program Ill say a little fish prayer for them


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## MacFish (Jun 15, 2006)

Thanks everyone. I'm not counting my ducks just yet. Not sure if I will sell these or not. Since they are offspring of siblings, they are not breeding material for sure. If I can grow them out a bit, I'll decide if they are good enough to go out as "pets". I was in Big Als (Miss) last night and they have some horrible EBJD's in there. If mine look like them, they will be culled.


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## pat3612 (Jan 29, 2008)

MacFish said:


> Thanks everyone. I'm not counting my ducks just yet. Not sure if I will sell these or not. Since they are offspring of siblings, they are not breeding material for sure. If I can grow them out a bit, I'll decide if they are good enough to go out as "pets". I was in Big Als (Miss) last night and they have some horrible EBJD's in there. If mine look like them, they will be culled.


Well if mine are that bad i will just keep them as pets. lol.


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## MacFish (Jun 15, 2006)

judging by the pics you already posted, yours do not look like these ones. Their colour was not good and the head shape on most was some of the worst I've seen. They had at least 6 that looked like they were going to die.


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## FishyCracker (Feb 5, 2009)

That is amazing! I am so excited for you.. Congratulations!


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## MacFish (Jun 15, 2006)

It seems they are multiplying  I counted and recounted like crazy and kept coming up with 16. The last couple days I keep checking and every time I check, I find one more. I'm up to 19 as of this morning 

They are doing pretty well so far. I'll see if I can snap some more pics this weekend.


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## MacFish (Jun 15, 2006)

Got a few shots. They are still pretty skittish from when I chased them around separating the Regular looking fry form the Blues. They tend to swim and hide when they see me coming.

17 Days free swimming now.


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## pat3612 (Jan 29, 2008)

Iam so happy for you what have you been feeding them. Wow 19 cool.


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## MacFish (Jun 15, 2006)

So far pretty much only Baby Brine Shrimp. I have tried a little Hikari first bites as well but they generally spit it out. Picky little things.


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

Nice fat bellies on them too!

Try some daphnia (I use the frozen hikari with my baby apistos, along with hatched bbs and crushed flake). My little ones love it, and it is always good to mix it up a bit once they are eating.

If you can raise them, I wouldn't cull them. I'm sure there are many who would still buy them off you (have you seen some of the ones at LFS's???? yours can't be THAT bad!), or take them for free as an alternative.

How could you cull your first successful spawn anyway! That is just asking for trouble in the future


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

Sorry, thought I would add another post too.

Don't answer if you don't want to publically!

At what point did you seperate the fry/parents?

Have you done much research on what effects the sex ratio at all?

Also, I've been able to raise the survival rate of my spawns by almost 50% by providing TONS of moss to the tanks (I mean like, I can barely see anything but moss in the tank!) I remove my fry into. Keeps those that are a bit weaker and unable to feed properly alive by allowing them to fatten up a bit on microorganism's instead of having to directly compete for added food sources. I see you have a sponge filter too, which helps immensely. I've been thinking about adding another to my fry tank too, more as a source of early food than anything else.

Anyway, I feel like I am preaching to the choir here - you bred them, not me!


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## MacFish (Jun 15, 2006)

We'll see how it goes. I kinda feel the same way with regards to LFS fish. All I have seen lately are really bad quality. 

I pulled half the fry as soon as they hatched. The pair spawned in a tank with about 25 other dempsey's so I thought I had to act quick. I pulled the remaining fry after a couple days. Just before they went free swimming. I had a major die off in the first few days. The pair was small and so was the spawn but I lost at least half of the fry. I'm really surprised there was this many EB's left. I thought for sure they would be the ones that died since they are weaker.

Sex ratio is unknown. Everyone used to think that there were many more males than females but that has changed. Partly because they are next to impossible to sex. Now that more people are breeding them, we can see that there are a lot of females that end up pair up. 

Thanks for the tips on food and moss. I used to have a planted tank and the fry loved it. I had to take it down but do plan on adding some plants in the future.


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

Doesn't have to be a "planted" tank really, just a handful of moss. You have light? You have water? Well, you have moss!

I'm also not sure about how well your guys are at parenting, but I've been able to keep higher numbers of fry by allowing them to spend the first few freeswimming days with the female. Keep in mind though, female apistos are great moms!


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## MacFish (Jun 15, 2006)

JD's are too normally. This tank was way too packed though. They wouldn't have been able to protect them once they went free swimming. 

The other thing that makes breeding EB's challenging is the fact that as soon as the parents can distinguish EB fry, they will kill them. It was day 10 I think before I could tell the difference so I think if the pair was in a less crowded tank, they would be okay for a week or so.


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## pat3612 (Jan 29, 2008)

Hey Mac how are the little guys doing.


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## MacFish (Jun 15, 2006)

Very good. They got spoiled this weekend with 4 - 5 feedings a day and have grown a fair bit. I was quite ill yesterday so they missed their water change. I owe them a big one tonight. I'll see if I can get some more pics.


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## pat3612 (Jan 29, 2008)

MacFish said:


> Very good. They got spoiled this weekend with 4 - 5 feedings a day and have grown a fair bit. I was quite ill yesterday so they missed their water change. I owe them a big one tonight. I'll see if I can get some more pics.


Sorry you were sick you ok now Ive had a headache since sunday driving me nuts. glad the little guys are doing good.


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## MacFish (Jun 15, 2006)

Better but not 100% yet. I had a migraine from when I woke up Saturday morning till I went to bed Monday night. No fun. Also had a cold all weekend that intensified Sunday night. Monday morning my chest was so tight I thought I had pneumonia or something. Took the day off and slept all day and when I woke up, I felt a lot better. 

Still have a cold but I can function today


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## pat3612 (Jan 29, 2008)

MacFish said:


> Better but not 100% yet. I had a migraine from when I woke up Saturday morning till I went to bed Monday night. No fun. Also had a cold all weekend that intensified Sunday night. Monday morning my chest was so tight I thought I had pneumonia or something. Took the day off and slept all day and when I woke up, I felt a lot better.
> 
> Still have a cold but I can function today


Wow thats weird Ive had mine since Sunday and still have it today though its not as bad. Wonder if its weather related. Glad your feeling better.I have CRS comming in from Colorado my cory tanks not finished though Iam not hurring it and my oscars need another water change have to change them twice a week. I better pop another tylenol and get cracking.


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## pat3612 (Jan 29, 2008)

Hey just wondering how the little ones are doing


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## MacFish (Jun 15, 2006)

They are doing pretty well. I haven't lost any yet. The biggest ones are getting close to 3/4" and showing some very nice colour. Unfortunately, as I expected, their shape is not good. Most of them are already showing what I am pretty sure will develop into the fugly beak nose the crappy quality EB's get. I'm still growing them out to see but I'm not holding my breath. 

I am hoping that this is due to the sibling pair. I have my 4 best females in with my large EB male and hope I get a pair out of them. I had another sibling pair form in that tank the EB male jumped into the mix and was fertilizing the eggs as well. I saved that spawn and they are about a week free swimming now. We'll see if these turn out any better. 

I saw some EB's this week at Big Als Mississauga and at Aquatic Kingdom. If mine look like them, I will be starting from scratch again and scrapping what I've accomplished so far. 

This project has been long and trouble filled but I am committed to doing it right even if I end up being committed myself


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## Tropicana (Feb 15, 2009)

Good to hear that their doing well. I know what ur sayin by The shape of fish. Ive been searching high and low for good quality GBR's but honestly every one u look at has some small imperfection by imbreeding. lol its a bummer. At BA's Barrie they have "Large GBR's" and the colours arent bad. but u can see their tails are slightly curved and their Fins are much to seperated and it just looks wrong. lol i think im getting locked into trying to get good GBR's like you are EBJD's haha. GL hope u find some good fish to pair with diff genes.


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## pat3612 (Jan 29, 2008)

MacFish said:


> They are doing pretty well. I haven't lost any yet. The biggest ones are getting close to 3/4" and showing some very nice colour. Unfortunately, as I expected, their shape is not good. Most of them are already showing what I am pretty sure will develop into the fugly beak nose the crappy quality EB's get. I'm still growing them out to see but I'm not holding my breath.
> 
> I am hoping that this is due to the sibling pair. I have my 4 best females in with my large EB male and hope I get a pair out of them. I had another sibling pair form in that tank the EB male jumped into the mix and was fertilizing the eggs as well. I saved that spawn and they are about a week free swimming now. We'll see if these turn out any better.
> 
> ...


 lol Thats cool they are doing good. Mine are turning out not to bad they are looking better now they are getting a little bigger . My Jds are growing fast in the 90 Iam hoping to get some half decent BGJDs once I breed them which I quess Iam looking at a few years lol. One Day maybe Ill get a good blue. Of course it would be easier if you get some good ones first and I could talk you into parting with one lol: 
Ps when do they mature my Jds are about 4 ins now and more black then blue.


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## pat3612 (Jan 29, 2008)

Tropicana said:


> Good to hear that their doing well. I know what ur sayin by The shape of fish. Ive been searching high and low for good quality GBR's but honestly every one u look at has some small imperfection by imbreeding. lol its a bummer. At BA's Barrie they have "Large GBR's" and the colours arent bad. but u can see their tails are slightly curved and their Fins are much to seperated and it just looks wrong. lol i think im getting locked into trying to get good GBR's like you are EBJD's haha. GL hope u find some good fish to pair with diff genes.


Sorry whats a GBR lol


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## JamesG (Feb 27, 2007)

pat3612 said:


> Sorry whats a GBR lol


German Blue Ram. I didn't read the post but that is the only relevant acronym I can think of.


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## pat3612 (Jan 29, 2008)

JamesG said:


> German Blue Ram. I didn't read the post but that is the only relevant acronym I can think of.


Thanks should have known that ahh getting old the brain just does not retain everything anymore lol


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## MacFish (Jun 15, 2006)

> Ps when do they mature my Jds are about 4 ins now and more black then blue.


Most JD's reach sexual maturity at between 3" - 4". I've had a few females spawn at 2" though. They do tend to darken up during courting/spawning and females will go almost completely black when protecting fry/eggs.


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## pat3612 (Jan 29, 2008)

MacFish said:


> Most JD's reach sexual maturity at between 3" - 4". I've had a few females spawn at 2" though. They do tend to darken up during courting/spawning and females will go almost completely black when protecting fry/eggs.


Thanks Mac Ill see if I can get some pics up tonight.


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## Riceburner (Mar 14, 2008)

Mac, sorry to hear you were under the weather. Good to hear the EBs are going well.

..maybe the beak nose won't be as bad as they mature?


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## pat3612 (Jan 29, 2008)

I thought my 2 had beak nose but my one is getting a nice face as he or she matures. Iam switching them over to the 30 gal now that they are 3ins.


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## MacFish (Jun 15, 2006)

It's been a while so I thought I'd post up an update. Happy to report I haven't lost any yet. They are coming along nicely. They were 6 weeks free swimming on Wednesday and range in size from 1/2" - 3/4".

Some are looking quite nice. Unfortunately, the ones with the best color show the worst shape. The ones with the best shape look a little drab compared to the others. Oh well. I have decided to grow them out as large as I can to see what I am dealing with. I have a few people that want these guys. If they turn out better than what we can find locally, I will pass them on to them. I want to see what I am working with first though. The last thing I want to do is put more crap into local tanks. Since they came from sibling parents, they definitely should not be used to start a breeding project.

Anyway, my good camera has been confiscated by my wife for the weekend so I'm back to my old point and shoot. Here's the best I could do....


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## pat3612 (Jan 29, 2008)

Hey Mac from the pics they dont look to bad did you take it with flash. One thing I noticed with mine since they were about an inch and a half when I got them , their faces seem to be shortning up,they dont look beak face at all now. Id say they are just over the 3 in. mark. I think that one in the clear shot is looking good . I think you did a great job keeping them all alive.


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## MacFish (Jun 15, 2006)

I never use flash in my pics. It's been a while since I've used this camera so I forget the tricks 

They are coming along. I'm in the middle of some major maintenance and moving a lot of fish around. I should have done this a few weeks ago but these guys will be going into my 20 Gal today. They have been growing pretty well so far. Hopefully the bigger tank helps them grow even faster.


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## planter (Jun 9, 2008)

Wow very nice. 

I'm currently looking for some BGJD is you have some for sale let me know.


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## MacFish (Jun 15, 2006)

I don't normally sell my BG's. I will trade with you if you can create a line with different genetics than mine. Or, I will also trade for good quality EBJD's if that interests you.


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## planter (Jun 9, 2008)

PM sent.


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## MacFish (Jun 15, 2006)

Update time. These guys are just shy of 8 Weeks free swimming. The biggest ones are approaching 1". Smallest are still a little over 1/2".

They are coming along nicely. I see a few that will need to be culled but not as many as I first thought.


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## pat3612 (Jan 29, 2008)

Hey Mac they look great , good job raising them . If you are going to part with a few let me know please. Iam going to keep one of mine maybe to breed see how it turns out. The other one I will probably cull. I dont like his face to much. Nice to see the update.


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## Riceburner (Mar 14, 2008)

Congrats on the brood so far. It's too bad any have to be culled. Would be great if there was an easy way to prevent them breeding and having em as pets only.


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## MacFish (Jun 15, 2006)

We'll see. I really don't want to put out any more crappy quality EB's. Even if they are for "pets".

I am still planning on raising these guys as much as I can before selling any. I really want to evaluate the line before letting them go. You're on my list Pat


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## pat3612 (Jan 29, 2008)

MacFish said:


> We'll see. I really don't want to put out any more crappy quality EB's. Even if they are for "pets".
> 
> I am still planning on raising these guys as much as I can before selling any. I really want to evaluate the line before letting them go. You're on my list Pat


Thanks Mac


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