# PP Treatment Part#1



## Brian (Mar 14, 2006)

If all goes well, I will be dosing with PP every 2 weeks to keep my fish nice and healthy.

I think I underdosed as the colour of the water isn't a medium purple but it is more light. We'll see.

Here are some pics  (I take pics of everything)


































The stock solution is 15g/L as I only got 15grams from my chemistry teacher. The recommended dosage is 2mL for every 1 gallon but I didn't have anything to measure so I just poured it in until I got a medium purple colour. Whenever the colour looks like it is fading to brown, I add a bit more to keep it the same colour.

This is probably the wrong way going about doing it but this is what I've read on Simply and I tried to call Enoch but his cell phone was off 

Hope all goes well... I will be hitting it with some H202 after the colour turns brown, no more adding. I've already added extra 3 times in both tanks.

The fish initially were scared but after a couple minutes, the top tank is acting normal and the bottom tank is doing OK. No signs of stress, the bottom tank is a new tank so they are already kinda shy.


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## holocron (Mar 12, 2006)

just so I am on the right track here... PP is prazi pro?


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## Brian (Mar 14, 2006)

No, Praziquantel doesn't discolour your water like that.

I am referring to PP as in Potassium Permanganate (KMnO4)


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## holocron (Mar 12, 2006)

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh spoken like a true noob (referring to myself).

thanks Brian.

What does PP do to make everyone happy?


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## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

PP is a strong oxidizing agent. In essence it "burns up" (oxidizes) organics, breaking it down to smaller components. It's also a therapeutic agent in controlling simple celled pathogens, ie protozoans and bacteria. It does so indescriminantly and one has to be careful in dosing. Too much can hamper nitrifying bacterial funtion (NH3 and NO2 spikes) and burn gills and slime coat.

The color in Brian's water is the correct amount not to cause problems. If accidentaly dosed too much, add some dechlorinator and do a water change.

Brian: if you want to see something neat, dose the same in a glass of water (or take it from the aquarium), wait for the water to settle and add a drop of dechlor. You can see it turn from purple (MnO4-2) to brown (MnO).


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## Brian (Mar 14, 2006)

I don't use dechlor, I used H2O2 

I take chemistry so I knew that the H2O2 would react with the KMnO4 and neutralize it, plus I also read it on Simply and was told so by Enoch 

I suppose KMnO4 works similar to formaldehyde or formalin, which are essentially the same thing at different concentrations. They burn off the slimecoat of the fish where some of the targeted parasites attach, etc. and hence, the fish are free of them. 

I added salt after to help them get their coat back as I believe salt irritates the fish and it makes them release more slime. At least I think that is what it does.


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## jrs (Mar 18, 2006)

Brian

Next time ask your teacher for one of the plastic pipettes. The small ones are 1 ml. to the beginning of the bulb, the larger ones are 2 ml. to the beginning of the bulb.

KMnO4 can also be used to desnail plants before introducing them to the tank. 

Out of curiosity, why not treat with prima or melafix?

jrs


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## Brian (Mar 14, 2006)

Um... prima or melafix doesn't work on gill flukes 

Plus I was told by a wise discus entrepenneur that dosing every 2 weeks with PP keeps your discus nice and healthy and I believe him 

I was going to ask her but she was in a rush to go somewhere, next time I am just going to take the pipette myself


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## jrs (Mar 18, 2006)

Oh..ok

your thread never said anything about gill flukes 

jrs


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## Brian (Mar 14, 2006)

Oohh... well, it isn't just for flukes but I don't use melafix for anything anyways 

Maybe sometimes when I am trying to heal up my bettas fins after spawning.


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## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

Excellent Brian . I can't tell you how many ppl don't have H2O2 on hand, but they do have dechlor...LOL.


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## Brian (Mar 14, 2006)

The only reason I had H2O2 is because I was using it as an antifungal for my angel spawn that I accidentally fed to my betta fry x.x

I don't use dechlor much, I have the crappy expensive aquaplus crap and I age my water in a big rubbermaid bin now so I don't plan on getting Cloram-X anytime soon either.


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## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

Forgot to ask, HS or univ chem?


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## Brian (Mar 14, 2006)

Lol, HS.

This is my second time around taking it, I wasn't impressed with last year's mark as we were in the same class as the AP Chemistry but my teacher this year is even harder than the one last year.

Learn a lot from both of them though, not that I will remember any of it x.x I'm supposed to be in first year University this year, hopefully to get my bio degree and then onto teacher's college


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## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

You seem to have a good attitude and an excellent goal to reach. I wish I had that as it would have saved me a few years and $$$...LMAO.

All the best to you Brian .


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## Brian (Mar 14, 2006)

Lol, thanks.

If you see me, I don't look like someone who would keep fish or want to become a teacher 

And no, I don't look gothic x.x


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## luvfishies (Mar 13, 2006)

Brian, I thought Toronto was chloramine water? If that's the case, just "aging" it won't make it safe for the fishies.


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## Brian (Mar 14, 2006)

I don't think they put chloramine in the hot water tap?

I usually use the hot water tap and sometimes the cold with hot, and I was also told that the amount of chloramines in the water isn't enough to do anything negative to the fish anyways. I don't know if that is true or not but I havn't had a problem with water changes yet.


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## moon (Mar 11, 2006)

Two things to look out for when using PP. At high ph it can turn toxic. This happened to me and lost two large discus. My well water ph is 8.5 and very hard. The other is caution about mixing PP and Formalin. I've never tried it apparantly the mix can be explosive.
Joe


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## Brian (Mar 14, 2006)

At high pH, it is toxic to a certain degree. If used with caution, it will not do much harm to your fish at all, I know a few people who have used it over pH of 8 with no ill effects.

PP has an explosive effect if mixed with formaldehyde and formalin, as quoted from my chem. teacher.


moon said:


> Two things to look out for when using PP. At high ph it can turn toxic. This happened to me and lost two large discus. My well water ph is 8.5 and very hard. The other is caution about mixing PP and Formalin. I've never tried it apparantly the mix can be explosive.
> Joe


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## Toronto_Discus (Apr 10, 2006)

The beauty of using PP is that when you see something that is not going right such as fish grasping for air or hiding in a corner, you can always dose hydrogen preoxide to eliminate the effects. Make sure to do a large water change after a PP treatment.

Kev


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## Enoch (Mar 13, 2006)

Moon's caution is correct. that's why most pharmacist will not sell PP and formalin together to the same person. This is also many discus experts so proud of their knowledge in other forums in the past and spoke freely about how dangerous these substance are. Ask them how mach PP + formalin needed to make a bomb. Any aquarist for the past 30 years had explosion in their tank? and how many of them die of Cancer?? I will not elaborate how to make a bomb. It's not politically correct. The conentration require is in a pure form with many tens of thousands times the amount we use to make a fire cracker?????and non of the pioneer in discus die of Cancer with fomalin as their primary medication of all their fish. Most die at old age with heart problem that their discus gave them??? Kepping discus can cause heart attack!!!!!!!That may be more truth than causing explosion??
Enoch


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## BillD (Jun 5, 2006)

I'm curious, as to how Hydrogen Peroxide neutralizes PP, when they are both oxidizing agents.


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## Pablo (Mar 27, 2006)

wtac said:


> PP is a strong oxidizing agent. In essence it "burns up" (oxidizes) organics, breaking it down to smaller components. It's also a therapeutic agent in controlling simple celled pathogens, ie protozoans and bacteria. It does so indescriminantly and one has to be careful in dosing. Too much can hamper nitrifying bacterial funtion (NH3 and NO2 spikes) and burn gills and slime coat.
> 
> The color in Brian's water is the correct amount not to cause problems. If accidentaly dosed too much, add some dechlorinator and do a water change.
> 
> Brian: if you want to see something neat, dose the same in a glass of water (or take it from the aquarium), wait for the water to settle and add a drop of dechlor. You can see it turn from purple (MnO4-2) to brown (MnO).


I like tripping people out with an acid pH test kit and putting red vinegar in a glass and turning it bright yellow. I have no idea what the composition of the chemicals involved in the reaction are. But I would Hypothesize the reaction goes something like this:

CO3OL-(Si)HiT


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