# Substrate for planted tank?



## bluberrymuffin (May 7, 2011)

I have a 10 gallon tank with gravel as substrate and recently upgraded lighting to 36W compact fluorescent to grow some plants...my substrate is only ~1" at the moment, so I'd like to add a bit more for planting.

I want to add some substrate, thinking between sand or aqua soil. I had a bad experience with netlea clouding up all my water really badly after a few months (maybe the hard water in Guelph?) so I wondering if something like the attached pic is possible by mixing in sand. I really like the look, but will it stay that way? I thought all the sand would just sink to the bottom and make 2 separate layers...how would one go about cleaning/gravel vacc'ing?

Anybody have any advice?  I don't mind adding root tabs if I add sand.


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

often with planted tanks we don't vacuum the gravel, at most just hover over the top a little as all the junk in it is great for the plants.

If budget isn't a problem, there are lots of good plant substrates.

if budget is an issue, what I do is put some potting soil in the bottom and cap it off with gravel.


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## LTPGuy (Aug 8, 2012)

I have had sand and gravel mixed, not on purpose of course, and they will eventually separate when you vaccum or stir the substrate.

On that note, I rarely vaccum my planted setup. I have read that the mulm are actually good for your plants. It's like a nutrient rich substrate/buffer.

I am testing out Safe-T-Sorb, a clay, which is suppose to be similar if not identical to Aquasoil, and Turface. So far, the root growth on clay are phenomenal. I am talking long, white, thick and hairy roots on Pogostemon Stellata, Ludwigia Repen. I also have CO2, and 2 T8 over my 10gallons.

Check out this link where there were discussion about the clays, and cloudiness.

http://gtaaquaria.com/forum/showthread.php?t=44066&highlight=turface

Also, if you find a source for aquasoil, please let me know where. I am curios the see how they compare to what I am using.

Good luck.


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## bluberrymuffin (May 7, 2011)

I believe you can get aquasoil at Aqua Inspiration in Markham. They are out at the moment though, according to their site.

LTPGuy, when you say the gravel and sand will "mix", do you mean like in the picture, or the sand will pretty much all sink to the bottom?

Budget isn't really a huge issue, but I don't really want to have to remove my substrate and use it as a cap, so I was thinking of just mixing. I really like the look of the mixed substrate in that picture, and I'm seen it in some planted tanks so I was just wondering if it looked feasible


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

Find a dedicated plant substrate if budget isn't a problem, might be the best option.

Some pros use layers of different things, red clay, laterite and more.

I guess one of the main things to decide is the looks you are wanting to see, as in the top layer. Darker colour substrates bring out the colour of fish more than lighter colour substrates. 

A few months ago I changed from play sand in my 90 to a sandblasting sand that is a darker grey and I find everything stands out much more.

I would love to use fluorite sand but it is quite expensive when doing a larger tank.


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## balutpenoy2oy (Feb 17, 2011)

*sand blasting sand*

Hi Pyrrolin, where did you got it ?. I used in my 75g tank a bag of red flourite and sneak  Ontario Lake sand mixed with some peat moss (from orchid pots ) underneath them. That was how much I budget. They are about 2 1/2" thick. Downside of moss is every time I full out plant, my tank got dirty and cloudy. @ bluberrymuffin, look at my planted tank and you will see what I mean of mixed..


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## bluberrymuffin (May 7, 2011)

I only see gravel...so I'm assuming that's how it ended up mixing lol. Also, saw all sorts of aqua soil at Lucky's Aquarium today from $40-$70 a bag.


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## LTPGuy (Aug 8, 2012)

bluberrymuffin said:


> I believe you can get aquasoil at Aqua Inspiration in Markham. They are out at the moment though, according to their site.
> 
> LTPGuy, when you say the gravel and sand will "mix", do you mean like in the picture, or the sand will pretty much all sink to the bottom?
> 
> Budget isn't really a huge issue, but I don't really want to have to remove my substrate and use it as a cap, so I was thinking of just mixing. I really like the look of the mixed substrate in that picture, and I'm seen it in some planted tanks so I was just wondering if it looked feasible


Yes, the sand and gravel will mix like the photo you posted. They will stay mix and it's not hard to just stir it up when you replant. If you vaccuum deep into the substrate, the material will separate, but you can just stir it up again.

I am 100% with Pyro about using a proper substrate for plants if you're really interested in growing plants. I have grown plants in gravel for a long time and most plants do well. Not all.

If you want great plants growth, tried some of the plants substrate. I will eventually move toward black latterite. Never tried it, but want to. It's also expensive.

You have a very unique taste btw. I would personally recommend against using sand. It's inert, it's too fine, and it may compact your roots in the long term. Can also cause anaerobic region in the substrate resulting in sufate gase which is not good for your fauna.

Wort come to worst, why don't you just add more gravel. 2-3mm are ideal size. What I like best about gravel is you can stir the substrate until the cows come home and it's never messy!

Thanks for pointing out the aquasoil. The Aquasoil I was looking for is Schultz' which cost $5-$7 a bag, not $20+!


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

There is a good thread on the sandblasting sand I am now using. But note, it wouldn't be a good choice for smaller bottom fish as it is a little bit sharp. Not sure where the thread is, maybe someone who is good at searching the forums can link it.

With plants, generally the more you spend on stuff the better they do, things such as lighting, co2, substrate, ferts. My budget has always been limited so I do what I can, dollar store potting soil for example.


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## bluberrymuffin (May 7, 2011)

Haha "unique taste" that's a nice way of putting it. My sister said it was downright ugly. I think it looks nice and natural 

I guess other factors into consideration for me in terms of the substrate other than aesthetics is that I'm not really looking for a high tech tank. I know I have a lot of light, but I would rather my plants grow nice and slow, as I don't have alot of time to maintain them. I definitely don' t have the resources (time or money) to do ferts and/or CO2....AT MOST I'm willing to toss in some root tabs and Excel when I remember  This in mind, I'm obviously not going for HC carpets and fancy finicky plants.

One day I will have the time to take care of a large, lush, planted tank, but for now I have to make do with what I have.

At the moment trying to decide between some free Caribsea moonlight sand (I heard its too fine and clogs up impellers) or just using cheap pool filter/silica sand (but I have bottom feeders...ADFs)...

Or...best of both worlds...fluorite black sand...just didn't want black


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## xriddler (Feb 16, 2012)

check out natural planted tanks with soil as substrate. there are many methods of soil substrate planting and its low maintenance, no ferts are needed or co2. Low lights and low light plants thrive very well in this setting and trimming is maybe once every month only.


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## LTPGuy (Aug 8, 2012)

pyrrolin said:


> There is a good thread on the sandblasting sand I am now using. But note, it wouldn't be a good choice for smaller bottom fish as it is a little bit sharp.


What brand of sand? I've got Bell&MacKenzie. It's a blend of nickel and coal slag. It is suppose to be inert and insoluable according the MSDS. Mine have sharp edges as you have described.

Initial test showed no changes to water parameters, and Neo shrimps showed no fatalities after a week or two.

There was a grease film when initially rinsed.



xriddler said:


> check out natural planted tanks with soil as substrate. there are many methods of soil substrate planting and its low maintenance, no ferts are needed or co2. Low lights and low light plants thrive very well in this setting and trimming is maybe once every month only.


I think X is talking about Dianne Walstad approach. This link will give you some insight. The big issue I have with this setup is when it is time to pull out overgrown plants, especially those with huge roots. Most plants will have large healthy root system in this setup.



bluberrymuffin said:


> but I would rather my plants grow nice and slow, as I don't have alot of time to maintain them. I definitely don' t have the resources (time or money) to do ferts and/or CO2....AT MOST I'm willing to toss in some root tabs and Excel when I remember  This in mind, I'm obviously not going for HC carpets and fancy finicky plants.


Walstad might be the way. Just be warn when it's time to rescape or trim!



bluberrymuffin said:


> At the moment trying to decide between some free Caribsea moonlight sand (I heard its too fine and clogs up impellers) or just using cheap pool filter/silica sand (but I have bottom feeders...ADFs)...
> 
> Or...best of both worlds...fluorite black sand...just didn't want black


I am so jealous. You've got black Caribsea Moonlight Sand, and you're electing to use cheap pool filter sand?!

There are lighter fluorite substrate in case you're wondering. Black was mentioned I think because most people like black.

Base on your needs and wants, X might be right about Walstad approach for you. An inert substrate might not be the best approach.

Good luck with your setup.


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

I believe it was K & M, available at tsc stores


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## xriddler (Feb 16, 2012)

i am using the tahitian moon sand for my shrimp only tank and it is a beauty. i run a ac30 with a metal grill covering the intake.


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

I've got Moonsand too. If you are careless when you remove the filter to clean it, say, rinsing it in a bucket that also contains some sucked out water that has the moonsand in it, well, it's true the grains are small enough to get caught between the impeller and the impeller well wall. But all you have to do is remove the impeller and rinse well, wipe off the magnet and all is well. The one thing it does that annoys me a bit is it's very easy to suck up with a siphon.. more so than larger stuff. But ALL the substrates I have get sucked up with the siphon, so that problem is not unique to moonsand.

But I've never had any real problems with it, of all the substrates I have just now it grows the nicest plants.. that same type of Echino you got from me has grown a huge mass of roots in it in quite a short time, better than the other substrates. 

The other two substrates are, first, a plain gravel with pretty small grains, which I later dumped the remaining Moonsand into. Wish I had not done that now, the moonsand quickly settled to the bottom, leaving the larger grain gravel on top. I did it hoping the black sand would remain on top because the gravel was more grey than black, and I wanted it darker. So much for that idea . The second is Eco complete, about a year old, which has also separated into two layers, but then, they say it's supposed to do that right on the bag. The bottom layer is not as fine as Moonsand though. It grows good plants and they are making a new version of it that's much finer grained.. which, if I can afford it, will be my next choice to try out.

I also have Shultz's Pond soil in a small tank. I really like it.. not black, sadly, but a nice colour. Easy to clean, haven't had it in long enough to say about plant growth.

Sand will most certainly settle to the bottom if you layer it on top of anything with a larger grain size.. and once your plants are rooted, you won't be able to mix it up much, if at all. You'll see the two layers as well through the glass, but seeing your pebble effect, maybe that's ok. I kinda like the pebble look.. it's sure different. Nice.


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