# help or opinions with plumbing



## tom g (Jul 8, 2009)

Hi there gang working on some plumbing and wouldnt
Mind some opinions or advice to help me out
Look forward to some advice so I can move on.


Also looking for a return pump for a 58 gal tank and 30 gal


a few more questions .....................

ok so when i finally get it all plumbed ,do i have to glue everything togeather to do a wet test relizing that if i glue the pipes i wont be able to reuse them ,this will not be the final resting place of the tank it will be upstairs so i need to make sure i have no problems before i move thank upstairs .... how do u guys test without ruining pvc fittings .

next question is for the sump ........
it will be skimmer>>>>>>>>>>refuge area >>>>>>then three slats for the sump i have read that they should be 1 in apart any preferance for an optimum performance i was planning on having sponge in between each slot but looks like the ones i have are too thick .what sponges do u guys use and how far are your slots for the sump....>>>>>> then of course the pump .


Sump
Thanks again
Tom


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## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

Been trying working on a reply but I get pulled away from the comp.

Unions at the bottom of the bulkheads will help in removing and reusing pipe layout. 

IMHO, you are going to have to redo the sump as the baffles are too high as they are. Going from left to right, unless you have the height clearance in the cabinet, you are going be raising the skimmer with a DIY skimmer stand of 1/2 to 2/3 the height of that baffle. If you are just using the baffles for compartmentalization and not bubble trapping, I would use a baffle height 1" taller than the recommended skimmer water depth. Easier to raise the skimmer if too deep than not deep enough.

For the last baffle, you can either have the same height or as low as 4". To keep the macroalgae from going into the pump en-masse, use egg-crate to make that separation.

HTH


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## tom g (Jul 8, 2009)

*plumbing*

hey there thanks for the reply .i do have the height under the stand would /should i take down the first trap and lower it

the sump is 18 in high>>>>>>>> the first trap is 14 in
second trap is 10 in>>>>>>
then raised 1 in off the bottom >>>>>
third trap is 10 in 
the skimmer i have is a vertex 100

thank u have been waiting paitently for some critiqueing here 
thanks again 
tom


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## tom g (Jul 8, 2009)

*advice*

hey there hope everyone is having a great weekend 
working on my tank this weekend and just curious i want to chk out my tank and see how things works with it with water in tank and sump .
my question is since the tank is in the basement and not in its actual spot.
what will be the difference if i plumb it with hose rather then do the pvc plumbing and waste fittings as i willl have to dissassemble the plumbing work to move upstairs any ideas would be appreciated 
cheers 
tom


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## tom g (Jul 8, 2009)

*adjustment*

hey there ... so anyways i have it plumbed with hose for now till i move it upstairs .
but as i fill the tank and have it running my far chamber with the return pump is runnning dry , then does not have enough water to push thru the tank ,is it cause my pump is not the right rated pump for this set up .any ideas 
cheers 
tom


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## tom g (Jul 8, 2009)

*advice*

anyone ............could my first chamber be too high...


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## 50seven (Feb 14, 2010)

tom g said:


> hey there ... so anyways i have it plumbed with hose for now till i move it upstairs .
> but as i fill the tank and have it running my far chamber with the return pump is runnning dry , then does not have enough water to push thru the tank ,is it cause my pump is not the right rated pump for this set up .any ideas
> cheers
> tom


If the pump is underpowered, it should just make your circulation go slowly. If it's running dry, is it maybe because there's not enough water in the system???



tom g said:


> anyone ............could my first chamber be too high...


IMHO I see no issues with your sump, as long as there's enough space in there to hold any water from the upper tank if there's a power failure.


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## tom g (Jul 8, 2009)

*sump*

i dont get it kevin , top tank is full and sump is like six inches from top when pump unplugged .it seems to run good till the corner overflow fills up then it slowly drains all the water from the last compartment with the return pump , then the return pump stops pumping cause its dry....


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## fesso clown (Nov 15, 2011)

To Me it looks like you have the skimmer in the wrong chamber. The way that sump is set up (same as mine) the return pump should be in the middle section, the skimmer in the right hand section and the fuge on the left. You would need to run a T with a valve off your return line to get water into the fuge.
Also YOur bubble trap is doing nothing right now...


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## altcharacter (Jan 10, 2011)

If you have filter floss in the baffle (which I think you do) take it out, this would be causing low flow and could constrict the flow into the last baffle.

I can come take a look at it tomorrow night if you're up for it.

Jeff, the setup is right as far as I can tell and the bubble trap will work when the pump is on.


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## fesso clown (Nov 15, 2011)

I am looking at the water level, it's way over the middle baffle of the bubble trap. The water level should be just over the first and third baffles but not over the middle. I swear it's backwards and the skimmer is in the fuge right now. The baffle on the side where the skimmer is now is so high that you need that gigantic stand to get the water level right for the skimmer, move it to the other side and it's probably perfect.

It looks like this design to me:


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## altcharacter (Jan 10, 2011)

It's over the middle baffle due to the pump not being on and the water from the DT filling it up. The way the sump is setup is exactly how mine was setup and this use to happen to me when my pump was off


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## tom g (Jul 8, 2009)

*advice*

Will remove filter floss tonite...........filter floss removed no diff.

i removed the filter floss and its the exact same thing, could my durso pipe be too high poss not letting the water flow to the sump ...
thanks again for all the help 
cheers


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## 50seven (Feb 14, 2010)

tom g said:


> i dont get it kevin , top tank is full and sump is like six inches from top when pump unplugged .it seems to run good till the corner overflow fills up then it slowly drains all the water from the last compartment with the return pump , then the return pump stops pumping cause its dry....


Then there's not enough water in the sump or there is a restriction in the flow somewhere, possibly the overflow standpipe or something. Try it with a bit more water and see what happens???

IMHO there's nothing really wrong with having the skimmer in the same compartment as the intake from the DT, it's going to be all bubbles galore in that compartment anyways.

If you're going to put a refugium in there, you can do the layout that Jeff/Fesso suggested, or put it in the middle section, either or. I've seen both done with good results either way.


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## tom g (Jul 8, 2009)

*sump*

could the durso pipe be too high , seems there is very little flowing into the sump ,i cant see any restrictions as its just the durso piping thru bulkhead then a nipple and to a hose straight into the sump , unless the 1 in is too small .?????


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## fesso clown (Nov 15, 2011)

I would suggest flipping it right around, the DT water should drain into the skimmer section (where the return pump is now), then go through the bubble trap to the middle section where you should put the return pump. The fuge on the far end will then have the high baffle. That baffle you have now for the skimmer section is way too high.

Water gets to the fuge by running a T off the return line with a valve.

This suggestion is all contingent on your skimmer being able to fit into the section that the return pump is in now.


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## tom g (Jul 8, 2009)

*sump*

hmmmmmmmmmmmm.... doing this would require me to take apart sump and re work .


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## fesso clown (Nov 15, 2011)

I suspect that the baffle for your skimmer section is part of the problem being so tall. Also from what I understand the bubble trap should be right after the drain/skimmer section because that's where all the bubbles are formed.


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## tom g (Jul 8, 2009)

*sump*

how do i figure out what the correct size of the wall should be i copied this from melvs reef site , his rec was skimmer>>>>>>fuge>>>>>pump ,it said it was was one of the more popular ones .


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## fesso clown (Nov 15, 2011)

I also used that site to design my fuge. I just chose a different design. Model F I think? I'd have to check that....

I think your first baffle is too tall and the bubble trap should go next to the skimmer section. Are you sure you got it the right way around?


How tall is the first baffel of your bubble trap? That's where the water level of your sump should be and if that is deep enough for your skimmer and your skimmer will fit in the (now) return section the easist thing to do would be flip the sump around and see if it works. You can leave the fuge (tall baffle section) dry for now all you really need is the skimmer>bubble trap>middle(return) sections. 
Then if that works, add a T to your return line to feed water to the fuge.


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## fesso clown (Nov 15, 2011)

Which model letter from Melv's reef did you build there?


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## tom g (Jul 8, 2009)

*sump*

didnt build from his model numbers ,but in write up he said popular and best 
was to go skimmer to the refuge to the return .....
and plus i have seen many members with this set up as well so i kept it simple ...


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## fesso clown (Nov 15, 2011)

Nothing wrong with skimmer>fuge>return but I still think your bubble trap is on the wrong side and your skimmer baffle is too tall. The skimmer baffle should be set to the hight of your skimmer's recommended water depth. I can tell it's way too high because you have a huge stand under the skimmer. I don't know if this is causing your flow problems but I suspect it is...


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## tom g (Jul 8, 2009)

*sump*

i dont understand what u mean by my bubble trap in the wrong place ...is it not suppose to trap bubbles before it goes into the return pump.....
yes i agree with my first compartment is too tall i took a general measurment of sumps from my readings .my vertex skimmer says it runs best with it 6 to 8 in off the bottom thats why i built that stand for it .or is the skimmer suppose to be on the bottom of the tank ... totally confused here .


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## tom g (Jul 8, 2009)

*sump*

this weeked i will take sump apart and start from scratch i will still do skimmer >>>>bubble trap >>>>refugium >>>return .....
how how should my first skimmer compartment since vertex recs that the skimmer performs best in 6- 8 in of water ....
if anyone could comment on this would be great would like to get this working this weekend ....
let me know 
thanks 
tom


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## tom g (Jul 8, 2009)

*sump*

hey there ok i have had a few offers for some help , just have not had a lot a time to make some calls i deff will take u up on your offers .came home from work today and mucked around a bit with the tank ,between some house chores , removed durso pipe and chopped approx 1/2 in off and reinstalled filled tank .seems to be running ok return pump holding water and not going dry.its a little low would personally like it a little higher but gonna try to tweak the first half with the skimmer . since i cut the durso pipe the water is steadily draining into first skimmer compartment and keeping water at a steady .

still would like ideas on reworking sump ....lowering first compartment and poss moving bubble trap to first compartment .
just an update 
cheers and thanks 
tom


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