# twobytwo's 120g short build



## twobytwo

Hi, Lets call this 120 v2.0. I was ready to set up my previous tank - a 120xh, but I didn't like how the 60' fit into the space I had for the tank... and wanted more depth... So I ordered a 120 short (48x24x24) reef ready tank.

Just waiting for the tank, stand and sump but picked up some goodies ahead of time.

80lbs of Aragonite, Pail of Reef Crystals and about 2/3 pail of Tropic Marine. 3 tubs with about 80-100 lbs of dead rock which I'll add some live rock to. Skimmer is CADlights TIA-1220 from Flavio at Advanced Reef Aquatics. He also set me up with my super sexy light, the Maxspect Razor R420r. I'm really excited for this version which is 320w at 15000k.

Really looking forward to having everything in the next weeks and getting the cycle going soon. It's great to read everyone else's threads to get some ideas for stocking!


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## Jiinx

how exciting! I'm doing a 120 build as well and have been slowly collecting stuff too! 

I'm looking forward to seeing your tank progression 

sarah


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## twobytwo

Finally got the rest of my stuff to setup. Now all thats remaining is to pickup the plumbing I need.

120g short RR tank









Stand and sump (36x16x16). 









Return Pump - Waveline DC4000









Refractometer I got from Amazon


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## explor3r

Congrats!!!!! looking forward to see the progress


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## sig

will you be able to remove skimmer cap in this so low stand?

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## twobytwo

Hey Sig, As soon as I saw your post this morning I walked over and checked. We're all good - this skimmer cap only needs about 1" to be removed and I'll have about 6.

For the return pump... am I supposed to cement the pvc plumbing to the barbed pump outlet fitting? Or just push the pvc on good/tight?

PS - was visiting my parents' house which is near BA North York (Thornhill). Fish room employee Rob was super nice and chatted with me for a bit. If you're in the area, he's a nice guy to talk to.


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## sig

twobytwo said:


> Hey Sig, As soon as I saw your post this morning I walked over and checked. We're all good - this skimmer cap only needs about 1" to be removed and I'll have about 6.
> 
> For the return pump... am I supposed to cement the pvc plumbing to the barbed pump outlet fitting? Or just push the pvc on good/tight?


no. try to run small piece of flex hose in attempt to reduce reduction and do not forget to install union in order to take out valve for cleaning. You can get also union valve (valve link is just for example)

http://www.lowes.ca/valves/american-valve-p240s-pvc-sch-40-socket-union_g1191911.html?ProductSlot=2

http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=24863&catid=853

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## twobytwo

Not a huge update... Put some foam pad in the stand under the sump (had to cut it). Found a pretty good bin at Cdn Tire that would make a good ATO reservoir and fit under my stand - I think it holds approx 7 gallons:
http://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/h...offs-large-1428076p.1428076.html#.VN_m60Ik9SU



















Also quick thanks to Mikeylikes for some plumbing fittings.


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## sig

how tick is foam pad. IMO - is too much if it more than inch

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## twobytwo

No worries, Sig... Just a little over 1cm:









And, the Eagle has landed. Thanks Tom for helping me get the beast onto the stand. (sorry for blurriness - I took the picture with a potato)









Now just a trip to Lowes and the tank'll be wet this week! I haven't 'rinsed' anything yet. Is it advised that I fill with tap water and then empty, to get dust and crap that is in the tank out? Or should I not worry and just fill it with my salt water and start cycling? Also looking for opinions on washing/rinsing my dead rock and brand new aragonite - especially if I should even bother (will most of the crap come out during the cycling phase and be collected in my skimmer/sump? ... _How necessary is it to clean substrate/dead rock over just putting it straight into the tank and starting the cycle?_


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## sig

are you saying there is 1" under sump in the first picture 

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## twobytwo

Sorry for any confusion. The first picture is just me measuring the thickness of the pad (I have some extra). The pad is just over 1cm thick...

I read *1"* as 1 inch, which this is not that thick.

I used the pad just in case any vibration from the skimmer and return pump, and also some protection if water spills out of the sump.

The stand is sitting on a layer of the same pad as well.

Tonight I have to poke in one or two shims under the stand. Tank Level is very close but not exact perfect yet.


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## twobytwo

Cue Rocky music...










Wife came with me to Lowe's to get plumbing stuff... and saw a water alarm. So, now I have one.


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## sig

you almost there. Do not glue top part of the drain, before it will work quiet. 
Is the gate valve from Loves also?

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## twobytwo

Gate valve, 2 unions and 4x45degree elbows are from Mikeylikes.
I had to buy a few additional things like the spaflex, 10' piece of PVC, clamps, cement, etc.

This is my dry fit mock-up:








The pillow was just in case anything fell out while I was checking it.

Now, I have never plumbed before... so it came out pretty messy - be nice to me, I was learning as I went  








My sloppy primer/cement work.
But holds pretty good, going to water test it tonight. And I have 2 plastic hangers, they just haven't been installed. I may add an extension to the end of the drain to lower where the water enters the sump


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## Mikeylikes

Dude...do you have room to take out skimmer for cleaning? Couldn't tell by pic if you have enough room.

I'm talking about the whole unit..


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## Mikeylikes

Looking good and coming along nicely btw


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## Letigrama

very nice! cant wait to see it alive!


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## twobytwo

Mikeylikes said:


> Dude...do you have room to take out skimmer for cleaning? Couldn't tell by pic if you have enough room.
> 
> I'm talking about the whole unit..


Yep, the top cup only needs a cm or so to come off, then the rest of the unit easily tips over rim of the sump and out the front opening.


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## sig

twobytwo said:


> Yep, the top cup only needs a cm or so to come off, then the rest of the unit easily tips over rim of the sump and out the front opening.


check how deep the skimmer should sit in the water. I do not know measurements of the baffles, but you can finish with the water level very low, because probably there is no space to have skimmer sitting on some kind of ramp to meet "deep" requirements

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## twobytwo

sig said:


> check how deep the skimmer should sit in the water. I do not know measurements of the baffles, but you can finish with the water level very low, because probably there is no space to have skimmer sitting on some kind of ramp to meet "deep" requirements


Online for this skimmer it says "Optimum Water level 7"-10""
First baffle is 7" - I should be ok?


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## sig

Sorry, I have no answer for type of skimmer you have. for my skimmer it says 9 -10,5, but it works better at 8" and difficult to adjust at 9

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## CamH

Looking great! I'm not starting my 90G till April as I'm building a new stand but it's great to see someone else go through the setup process! You posted that you were using 80lbs of argonite. Is that going to be enough?


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## twobytwo

I guess it depends how deep you want it to be. I'll put rocks down before the sand so that'll take up some space to raise the sand bed. I also just googled a sand bed calculator and 80lbs should be good for about 1.7" and thats without the rock taking up some of that.

Speaking of rock, I've placed most of my dead rock in a rubbermaid and filled simply with tap water. I'll fill a bucket with rodi water and will rinse each piece before it goes in the tank.


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## CamH

Rocks look great! I wanted a 2" sand bed and used an online calculator and needed 90lbs. 40lb bags were on sale on boxing day so I bought 120lbs so there was some for the refuge. Might have bought a bit too much.


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## Addicted

twobytwo said:


> I guess it depends how deep you want it to be. I'll put rocks down before the sand so that'll take up some space to raise the sand bed. I also just googled a sand bed calculator and 80lbs should be good for about 1.7" and thats without the rock taking up some of that.
> 
> Speaking of rock, I've placed most of my dead rock in a rubbermaid and filled simply with tap water. I'll fill a bucket with rodi water and will rinse each piece before it goes in the tank.


You might not want the rock sitting in tap water too long. The last thing you need is for it to absorb phosphate and other things from the tap water, and then have them released into your DT at some point down the road.


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## twobytwo

Good Point! The rock is out of the tub already. I'll be rinsing each piece in a bucket of Rodi water later today then placing in my tank


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## twobytwo

Well, moving along...

Rocks have been rinsed in RODI water and placed in my tank. There were a couple pieces I did not want to use; 2/3 of the bins of rock I had were completely dry, but one bin had about 2" in water inside. I am most amazed because the bins came into my possession in early summer, which means this water must have been in there for 8 months, maybe more since I don't know how long it sat until I got it. Anyway, most of the pieces from the "wet" bin looked pretty gross with what looked like mold - so I've set it aside for now. As a result, I have about 2/3 of the rock I planned to have. I may buy 1 big piece of Marco Rock and one piece of live rock to help seed the rest.

Aragonite/sand has been rinsed. I filled about 5lbs in a bucket and stirred it with RODI water 3 times. All 80lbs are in the tank now.

I'll try to post pics tonight when I'm home. I'll probably add RODI water to the tank and add salt rather than pre-mixing it (after the tank is cycled, I'll pre-mix any new saltwater).


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## twobytwo

Comments please! I like the idea of a small "island" to one side.

The height of the rocks on the right side will be about 9" from the water level. Should I add more rock to raise it?


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## altcharacter

I would suggest adding more rock to put corals on!!!
You're going to run out of room really fast with the rockwork you have but it's really choice though.

If you can try to make either a bridge from one island to the other or possibly some sort of cave area to put some shrooms and other sensitive corals. The caves will also give your fish somewhere to hide if they need to.

Looking good so far!


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## sig

move rocks from the right glass. Leave at least 3-5" for cleaning, etc

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## Crayon

Oh yeah, do the bridge! It will be awesome!


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## twobytwo

Slow and steady...

Sig - Moved rocks that were close to the glass, lots of room for cleaning now!
Altcharacter - I went to SUM and got 2 Marco Rocks to help raise the formation and bridge it all.
Crayon - see above

About half the tank full... getting there...


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## paulie

Looking good!!!


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## Crayon

Your big rock on the left bridge looks really flat and solid. Think about where you are going to add corals and what kind of corals. Is there a way to glue a coral to the big flat face? Right now, before all the water is in, you might want to drill some holes for frag plugs, or consider making the flat rock more horizontal, like a table top?
Not sure I'm seeing it properly so maybe you've thought this through. This is a frame work, so imagine it covered in cool big corals. In about a year.


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## twobytwo

time for an update....

At the last minute, I decided I wanted to make a change to the plumbing setup. I liked seeing Tee-ing off the return to the third chamber (I have it set up: Drain -> Return -> X (whatever I decide in the future).
Hangers are not attached yet:








Yes, Yes... lots of valves. Each one is a union valve to make disassembly, cleaning, etc easier.

Also finished filling the DT today with saltwater. I have to give the inside of the tank a good wipe as there are rings from the water sitting between making buckets of saltwater.









Heres the tank close up...

From the right side. You can see a curved flat piece at the top right









Here it the front, right side. You can see the same curved flat piece at top right. There is another flat piece around the bottom right, and another on the left side near the top. A few different levels, and spread out, for corals. You can also see nooks and crannies for lots of hiding places.









Front, left side - again you can see hiding places and that mid-level flat piece. You can also see the Marco rock making a nice bridge/arch.









Left side









So, just about 2 of the chambers in the sump left to fill with water. Almost there! Cycle starts tomorrow.


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## Sunstar

Gorgeous rock placement. fish are gonna love it!


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## Crayon

Now I'm digging the rock work!


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## Mikeylikes

Looking good and coming along there bud!


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## sig

very nice rock work, did you attach pieces somehow?

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## paulie

Looking very good! 

Like the rock work.


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## twobytwo

sig said:


> very nice rock work, did you attach pieces somehow?


Kind of... I didn't use a glue or cement, but a few globs of GE Silicone 1 (Aquarium safe) on some rocks to help as footings for stacking rocks on top. The silicone did act as an adhesive on some parts though. All in all, It's a bit more secure than not using anything and the Silicone peels off relatively well in case I need to move things around or reuse the rocks in the future.


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## twobytwo

Thanks to alt character for a bit of live rock and some snails, also to Tomg for a bit of sand.

I think I got the return/drain fine tuning down. Let the cycle begin!


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## altcharacter

Was fun chatting in the dark


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## twobytwo

Dave it was soooooo romantic! Those snails are pigs, went right for the shrimp as soon as I threw them all in.

Also - I think I need a bigger return pump. The DC4000 is at 80% and I needed to close the drain valve to about 60% open to balance it out. I'm still tuning but I don't think I'll be able to have my drain fully open with this pump. DC6000 might be the right one.


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## fesso clown

Your hard work and careful plannibg looks to be payibg off. Your set up is looking really good.

It is OK to have your drain line closed that much. Mine is at least 50% closed. I prefer to have a slower turnover in my sump. 

On to the next fun part eh?


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## twobytwo

Thanks FessoClown and others - it really means a lot to hear guys who are more knowledgeable than myself think what I've done looks good.

Fesso - It doesn't bug me much just yet to have a slower turnover. I was just surprised that the pump is rated for Max flow at about 1050GPH vs the drain which Marineland says is 700-750. At 70 or 80% on the pump, I figured I'd be able to have the drain close to full open. The difference is larger than I anticipated. Is there a way to calculate what the actual flow rate is right now?

Will the slower turnover impact my bio-load (less going through the sump and skimmer) in the long run? 

If I tweek both and open the drain a bit to allow the pump at 100%... is there any long term reliability issues with running a pump at 100% continuously? 

The reason I mentioned a bigger pump was in case I need more turnover in 6-8 months... with more livestock. Any guidance is appreciated. Thanks


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## fesso clown

Ooops. For some reason I thought you were running a bean animal or herbie but I guess you're not. I am not sure how running a valved drain works with a durso or whatever you're running there. Mine is a syphon. 
I shoot for about 5 x my volume through my sump. That is on the "slow" side. But it is about how fast my skimmer can process. Most people shoot for between 5-10x total volume. The theory if making the sump turn-over roughly what the skimmer can skim makes sense to me and that's why u chose to do that, although there are good arguements that it doesn't matter.


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## twobytwo

Yeah, that's how I was going to do my previous tank which I'd be drilling; Herbie or Bean Animal... but I decided I'd much rather go reef-ready than stress about getting a used tank drilled. Just for simplicity, I'm using the Durso setup that came with the tank.

I guess in the future I can always use the 2 bottom tank holes for a Herbie and run the return over the rim. Pretty sure that's how Sig has it setup when he showed me his tank.

But for right now, I'm using the Durso. I didn't really understand the concept at first and got a lot of bubbling and gurgling from both the top of the drain and where it empties into the sump. If pump and drain are both full open, the level in the overflow box goes down and the system starts taking in lots of air, making it into the sump. I drilled two holes in the pvc drain pipe above the opening at the bottom to help relieve backpressure as suggested in a comment in another thread by wtac. Once I closed the drain a bit after that, everything went quiet.

Drain goes straight down and ends with a 45 elbow to sump (no pipe right on the end, just the elbow with holes just above it, between the end of the drain pipe and the water level in the sump a few inches up). Should I add a bend/slope?

This really isn't the best hobby for someone with OCD


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## altcharacter

This is the ONLY hobby for OCD people 

Just ask Roger


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## fury165

altcharacter said:


> This is the ONLY hobby for OCD people
> 
> Just ask Roger


Wha? How did I get into this conversation? .


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## twobytwo

Arrived in the mail today:


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## zk4444

twobytwo said:


> Arrived in the mail today:


I just finished watching the YT video on this ATO system and looks like a pretty reliable system!

BTW, nice build so far.


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## twobytwo

Thanks! I found the ato from amazon:
http://www.amazon.ca/Hydor-Auto-Top...UTF8&qid=1426132830&sr=8-1&keywords=hydor+ato


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## zk4444

Awesome. I'll see if my old DIY ATO and pump still works, if not maybe I'll upgrade to this!


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## twobytwo

Thanks Dave for my first frag!


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## altcharacter

And the addiction begins


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## Crayon

twobytwo said:


> Thanks Dave for my first frag!


OMG, you have so much space for more corals! If you ever get up to the Barrie area, I have some frags for you, too! I hit 2 of the birds nest yesterday and created frags, plus a few other things which I just don't have room for.


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## Bullet

twobytwo said:


> Thanks Dave for my first frag!


Very generous Dave !


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## twobytwo

Some Newbies courtesy of Cheryl, who's dog Axel is my new best friend!










































Also... maybe I'm premature but it seems my cycle is finishing maybe? Ammonia and Nitrite look close to 0, Nitrate is around 20-25. Phosphates 0, Calcium and Alkalinity look good. For just over 2 weeks, I've had about 5 or 6 Nessarius snails eating some food pellets and 3 tiny frozen shrimp that have been in there. Could a fast cycle be due to running a skimmer through the cycle? (not that I'm complaining). I don't have a pH probe, but API pH test looks like its around 7.8/7.9ish (which could make sense as there really isn't much living in the tank until just now).


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## altcharacter

Tanks cycle at different rates depending on the situation


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## twobytwo

First fish, starting slowly with 3 Chromis:


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## Addicted

Congrats! You must be very excited.


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## twobytwo

Boom Goes the dynamite:










Also, *I'm having trouble with my skimmer* and would appreciate some input. I don't know if it's still breaking in or what - but I keep waking up to an overflowing cup. When I get home from work, everything seems fine. As per the manual for the CADLights TIA 1220, I'm trying to keep the water/foam level just below half of the inside tube in the cup. It will look good and after a couple hours, a good thick foam is building in the cup. Even later at night... still looks good, maybe the water level is creeping up a hair, so Ill dial the skimmer back a hair. All looks good an hour or two later before I go to bed. There will literally be no more than 0.5cm in the cup.

My wife wakes up way before me, about 4-5 hours after I go to bed. Many times, she has gotten up for work and had to turn off the skimmer for me because it was overflowing. This morning she didn't because she said there was only a small amount of water in the cup. I get up 2.5 hours later and the cup is FULL. What the heck is going on in the few hours between her leaving and me getting up - after the skimmer had been running for several hours already? There's no obstructions for the skimmer. The only reasonable thing I can think of it my ATO might be doing something. Could even a change of 1cm in the sump mess up the skimmer? When I do a feeding and turn off the pumps (and extra DT water empties into the tank) the skimmer begins to overflow - which is why I think they're related, but I may be completely off.

Does anyone have any ideas? Tanks been running for about 3-4 weeks so I don't think the skimmer is still breaking in.


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## fesso clown

Looking good. Sorry no help here for your skimmer woes, I am unfamiliar with that model and I use a recirculating skimmer. 

Nice choice with the Apex. I switched to Apex about 6 months ago and absolutely love it. Being able to have full control over my phone was easy to set up and has actually saved me a few times.


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## sig

twobytwo said:


> Boom Goes the dynamite:
> 
> Could even a change of 1cm in the sump mess up the skimmer? When I do a feeding and turn off the pumps (and extra DT water empties into the tank) the skimmer begins to overflow - which is why I think they're related, but I may be completely off.
> 
> Does anyone have any ideas? Tanks been running for about 3-4 weeks so I don't think the skimmer is still breaking in.


1) skimmer will overflow when water level is up. some of them very secretive to it and others are not so
2) do not know about your in particular, but some skimmers are very sensitive to the water chemistry changes (putty added, glue and probably something else)
3) why you stop main pump for feeding?

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## twobytwo

Fesso - Thanks for the comments about the Apex. I felt a little guilty spending the money but I guess if a controller was going to be in the future, better get it now and start using it. Do you use yours wirelessly, and if so, how are you connecting it? I'm looking for a wireless adapter but many seem to be $60+ - do you (or anyone) have a recommendation for an adapter?

Sig - 
1&2 - I think that's it. Maybe I need to force the ato to engage while I'm watching to verify if that's what is causing the skimmer cup to fill. But - if that is the problem, I'll have to set the skimmer when the sump water level is low, and then see if the cup fills when the ato finishes. I can also play with lowering the water level in the sump in general, I probably have it a bit higher than needed, but I did it as the skimmer was running more quietly and still within the recommended water depth for the skimmer. I guess in the big picture, properly running equipment trumps quiet non-working equipment.
3 - Uhhh, I don't know - I read that somewhere? I turn off both the gyre and return pump. I guess by forcing the water above the overflow holes to drain - I don't worry about wasting food down the drain. I thought this was normal, especially for feeding zoo/phytoplankton to the corals. I would have assumed that since the pump has a "feed" button, it's not that uncommon to press it when feeding?


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## Mikeylikes

if your ATO is dumping water into the skimmer section it will definitely affect skimmer performance. 

water chemistry impacts fractionation of foam produced as well. As Sig noted putty or any other additives to take may cause it to go crazy.

Not familiar with your skimmer model but does it require a certain water level to operate optimally ? if it does and water level fluctuates you will have difficulty keeping the skimmer operating at optimal efficiency.


M


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## fesso clown

I absolutely use my Apex wirelessly, it's the coolest thing about it. I never touch the display unit, programming and monitoring with my laptop and phone with the web based application "Fusion" is what makes the Apex worth every penny. I use a Net Gear gaming adapter to wirelessly connect the Apex to my network but you could get a long ethernet cable and hardwire it to your modem. Here's the link:
http://www.netgear.com/home/products/connected-entertainment/gaming-home-theater/WNCE2001.aspx
Being able to turn on and off outlets from Vancouver saved me a flood once.

I turn off my return pump when feeding (with my phone) al the time. Why let food get past the overflow and hope and prey it gets skimmed out? I thought most people do that most of the time...


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## twobytwo

Mikeylikes said:


> if your ATO is dumping water into the skimmer section it will definitely affect skimmer performance.
> 
> water chemistry impacts fractionation of foam produced as well. As Sig noted putty or any other additives to take may cause it to go crazy.
> 
> Not familiar with your skimmer model but does it require a certain water level to operate optimally ? if it does and water level fluctuates you will have difficulty keeping the skimmer operating at optimal efficiency.
> 
> M


Optimum water depth for my skimmer is 7"-10". I'm just at work so I can't measure exactly, but I'd guess the low level for the sump is about just under 8" - so after ATO it can't really be much more than 8.5".

The only water chemistry changes is probably a bit of salinity as I've dumped a few cups from the skimmer in the last week. I haven't added anything yet - chems/additives; I'm prepping for my first WC later tonight or tomorrow. What kind of putty do you mean?


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## sig

fesso clown;960122
I turn off my return pump when feeding (with my phone al the time.e...[/QUOTE said:


> reach people has own rules  and we are slaves of our tanks do it manually
> 
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## sig

twobytwo said:


> Optimum water depth for my skimmer is 7"-10". I'm just at work so I can't measure exactly, but I'd guess the low level for the sump is about just under 8" - so after ATO it can't really be much more than 8.5".


the water high requirements do not apply in this case, until they are in limits
you set your skimmer to the particular level and when high is changed, the skimmer will overflow or going down if your water level in the tank goes down

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## twobytwo

Went to the Big Als Midnight Sale and got a bunch of stuff:

2x Ocellaris clowns
3 more green chromis
3x Black and gold damsels
Tiger Queen Anthia
Foxface Rabbitfish
Wheeler Watchman Goby
Yellow Watchman Goby
Tiger Pistol Shrimp
4 Astrea Snails
A Ricordea frag - if nyone has advice on care and placement, I'd appreciate it.

The Wheeler watchman has found a spot on the back of my rocks so I haven't been able to catch a picture yet, and the Pistol shrimp is hiding in the sand somewhere, but starting to get along with the yellow watchman goby. The clowns have been hanging out together as well, though they're attracted to the overflow box and spend a lot of time swimming up along it.

Ok, so now for the phone pictures:


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## twobytwo

i also got the skimmer figured out... just let the ato fill the sump to the high point and set the skimmer there. it'll dip a little with the evaporation but shouldn't overflow again when the sump tops off.


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## twobytwo

Wheeler's Watchman Goby


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## Marz

Very nice!
Apex was the best purchase for me. Pricey, but worth it. 
In terms of the Ricordea, I am new to SW, but I have mine on the substrate, not in direct flow. Has grown a lot. I also feed my tank Reef Frenzy, and the ricordea enjoys it very much.


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## Crayon

Your tiger anthias is going to need some special care. In all likelihood it probably won't eat flakes or pellets. Make sure you have some spirulina brine shrimp or Larrys Reef Frenzy, or something smaller. Even try the ROE from Reef Nutrition. Or cyclops cubes.
These are finicky eaters, and the food has to be the right size. If you can get it to eat, that's half the battle. Once you know what it wants to eat, you should be fine.
I would also suggest feeding 3 or 4 times a day until it's eating well. Once you've got it eating, then you can dial it back to twice a day.
These fish don't get very big, so they need more care to keep.


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## twobytwo

Marz said:


> Very nice!
> Apex was the best purchase for me. Pricey, but worth it.
> In terms of the Ricordea, I am new to SW, but I have mine on the substrate, not in direct flow. Has grown a lot. I also feed my tank Reef Frenzy, and the ricordea enjoys it very much.


Thanks Marz, He was on a rock pretty low but I relocated him right onto the substrate between rocks to block most of the water flow but in the light (not shaded). Where do you get your reef frenzy? Does the Ricordea get target fed or just pull nutrients that are circulating in the water?



Crayon said:


> Your tiger anthias is going to need some special care. In all likelihood it probably won't eat flakes or pellets. Make sure you have some spirulina brine shrimp or Larrys Reef Frenzy, or something smaller. Even try the ROE from Reef Nutrition. Or cyclops cubes.
> These are finicky eaters, and the food has to be the right size. If you can get it to eat, that's half the battle. Once you know what it wants to eat, you should be fine.
> I would also suggest feeding 3 or 4 times a day until it's eating well. Once you've got it eating, then you can dial it back to twice a day.
> These fish don't get very big, so they need more care to keep.


Thanks Cheryl - how do I feed it? I got frozen Mysis shrimp cubes... is one whole cube too much at once? Dave suggested rinsing/melting the cube with water to remove phosphates... do I just dump the shrimp in the tank? Try to get them near the Anthias? Does it prefer the food moving from the gyre, or should I shut down the gyre so the food settles? What else can I give it; copopods? If so, where do I get copopods?


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## twobytwo

Well it's been about 3.5 months since my last update. Most fish are still with me, one or two not... and one completely disappeared (Queen Tiger Anthias). I added a Yellow and a Regal tang. Then it looked like something was going through the tank. Not sure if is/was ick, but fish were getting spots, so I sprang into action. Caught the fish and they're in a 40g QT/Hospital right now. In the DT I added a few corals and some shrimp (currently 1x Tiger Pistol Shrimp, 3 Peppermint shrimps, 2 skunk cleaner shrimps and 2 Blood shrimps.) Without fish in the tank, the amphipod population exploded, the shrimp seem to keep everything in control but the pods were starting to bother some of my corals.

QT plan: Paraguard, wait a few days... WC then Paraguard again. A week later, administer Prazipro and let it work for a week. Cupramine for 4 weeks and then observe the tank for 4 weeks.

And just to keep some photos going in the thread, here's my 2 new mandarins!


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## silent1mezzo

The colour on the second mandarin is insane!


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## Mikeylikes

love the second Mandarin !! Where did you get that from ?


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## twobytwo

Mikeylikes said:


> love the second Mandarin !! Where did you get that from ?


Yes, from day 1 I knew I'd want a mandarin. Got them at SUM! Picked them up on Sunday at their Anniversary sale, so it was affordable to get 2. I have to admit, when I first started visiting them as I got into the hobby I was overwhelmed; but I enjoy going in now and feel comfortable asking about things.

They're in a 5.5g QT with pods I bought from Goobafish.

The colour of the one is indeed interesting. I knew they had the spotted one in stock but wasn't sure about the other. I went in expecting a more Blue/Green mandarin but the orange is pretty cool!

It looks like the orange one has a higher dorsal fin which I believe may indicate it as male. Would two different kinds of mandarin (i.e. the spotted one) breed?


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## Crayon

Omg, your mandarins are sooo cool! And good on you for qt and cleaning the ich out of the big tank.
The big advantage of qt that we forget about is that it's a place for fish to de stress, acclimate, get strong, healthy, before they are dumped into "the yard" with all the other inmates, with the hierarchy and territories established.
Hope everything makes it through, Noel.


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## wchen9

twobytwo said:


> Yes, from day 1 I knew I'd want a mandarin. Got them at SUM! Picked them up on Sunday at their Anniversary sale, so it was affordable to get 2. I have to admit, when I first started visiting them as I got into the hobby I was overwhelmed; but I enjoy going in now and feel comfortable asking about things.
> 
> They're in a 5.5g QT with pods I bought from Goobafish.
> 
> The colour of the one is indeed interesting. I knew they had the spotted one in stock but wasn't sure about the other. I went in expecting a more Blue/Green mandarin but the orange is pretty cool!
> 
> It looks like the orange one has a higher dorsal fin which I believe may indicate it as male. Would two different kinds of mandarin (i.e. the spotted one) breed?


From what I have read they are different species so they would not breed.

I am looking into culturing pods myself now and hope to find a mandarin similar to your orange one in the not so distant future!


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## twobytwo

in the QT... Best Friends For Life!










just thought it was cute. thats all!


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## twobytwo

Ok, update time.










I am one week away from 73 days fallow in my DT and I'm VERY anxious to get everyone in. Almost everyone survived, the only casualties were at the very beginning while I was still catching fish... through Cupramine/Prazipro/Paraguard... everyone kept eating; In fact, they eat anything I throw in the tank. Seaweed, Brine, Mysis, Cyclops, Daphna, Blood Worms, Dry pellets, Reef Frenzy... its harder for me to find things they DONT eat.

The spotted mandarin didn't make it, but the striped one did and is eating frozen foods.

On the DT, I added a Coralife TurboTwist 6x which runs for about 8 hours overnight. Nitrates were getting higher than Id like so I've lined the bottom of my sump with Filter Floss (which I can change out cheaply) as I don't run socks, to catch detritus. I've also added a reactor with GFO.

I had a bit of a rock work malfunction when trying to move a frag. Of course it was at around 11:45pm when it happened! So my rocks are slightly different now. I think I may still need to add one or two big pieces.










I'm wondering if it would be good to do a freshwater dip before placing my fish back in the DT?

I've added a few corals; GSP, Candy Cane and a few others. I got 2 long spined Urchins. I'll have more pictures when all the fish go back into the DT. Looking forward to the Brantford Coral Show to get some new things to add to the tank.

Special thanks to tomg who looked after my tanks while I was on vacation for a week.


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## sig

QT should not have any sponge filters ...

Looking on the picture everything looks nice, but be careful with many tanks or wife will send you to separate bedroom

*100% free webcam site! | Awesome chicks and it is absolutely free! | Watch free live sex cam - easy as 1-2-3*


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## twobytwo

QT is done! All fish are back in the main tank.

Everyone is doing fine, eating, etc.

So, current tank inhabitants:
Foxface Rabbitfish, 5x Blue Chromis, 2x Ocellaris Clownfish, Black/Gold Damsel, Regal Tang, Yellow Tang & 2x Psychedelic Mandarins. The mandarins haven't seemed too interested in fighting with each other, so that's been good.

For inverts I have 2 longspine urchins, 2 peppermint shrimp, 2 Blood Red Shrimps, 2 Cleaner skunk shrimps, Tiger Pistol Shrimp, Astrea/Turbo/Nessarius snails, 2 Tiger Nessarius snails.










Never mind the brown substrate, it's been cleaned up since I took the photos:


































































Oh and I just thought this was cool... my 3-in-1... looks like some clove polyps and a birdnest are growing out of this candy cane:









Working on a list of things to get at the Brantford Coral Show

Next fish... looking for a wrasse, maybe a bristle tooth tang and a few others


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## twobytwo

Bit of an update time...
Got some things In Brantford at the coral show. 
Took a 2 minute cell phone video of my tank:




I had just fed the tank so there is a lot of debris floating around.

Ordered a few things recently, including mesh to make a lid for my tank. Starting to plan out my next fish and some may jump (thanks crayon for help). On my list is:

-Tomini Tang (or Kole, or Chevron, Twospot or Orangestripe Bristletooth, Maybe a Lavender)
-Fairy Wrasse (perhaps Blue-Head or Lubbocks or RubyHead or Red Head Solon) & Mystery Wrasse
-Niger Trigger
-Pearly Jawfish
-Long Nose Hawkfish
-Pygmy Filefish (whitespotted?)
-Court Jester Goby
-Firefish (would love Helfrichi or Exquisite but It may just be Red/Purple. a Zebra or Scissortail Dartfish could be cool)

And a few others that I'm keeping my eyes open for... Dottybacks (royal Gramma), engineer goby, other dartfish, lyretail anthias, Butterflyfish (not sure which one), Anthia (not sure which one). And would like to find a Strawberry Conch and maybe a Clam


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## tom g

*tank*

Tank is looking great.... amazing what fish do to the tank.
like the gsp growing up the overflow... ... love the footprint of the 
tank and all the room u have frt and back deff got me thinking 
......
great job


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## twobytwo

Thanks Tom! Most of my success has been from bugging you and a few other members for the last year... so thank you to EVERYONE! I think I doubled or tripled the number of friends I have through this hobby.

I bought the GSP on a rock months ago and placed it centrally on my rockwork, but now it's growing over the rock it came on. I just wanted to find a place that could be easier to manage if it got out of control. I _thought_ I saw someone with a "wall" of GSP and thought it looked neat.

I've got some Branch rock that has been in my sump for 1-2 months, I think I may add it to the middle of the rockwork to raise the flat pieces up a bit.


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## tom g

*gsp*

well I love the look of a gsp wall still trying here for one ...
I still remember the day I sent u to flavios and u called me and told me u bought a tank and stand .lol
we all have made some pretty damn good friends on the forum..


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## twobytwo

Just a quick update:

Some new fish:

Yellow Head Sleeper Gobies:









Red Fairy Anthias:









Twin Spot Hog Fish:









Long Nosed Hawkfish and Royal Gramma:









Goldrim Tang and Coral Beauty Angel:


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## fesso clown

Nice scores! i like those Gobies!


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## twobytwo

fesso clown said:


> Nice scores! i like those Gobies!


How about these? Got them yesterday...










Royal Gramma didn't make it in the QT


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## fesso clown

Very nice. I also have a purple fire fish and I love it. I call it "Twitch" I am sure you've seen why. I also love that he looks terribly grumpy like a sad clown. 
Nice score! 
What's the other one?


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## noy

The other one is a rainford goby (Koumansetta rainfordi).


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## notclear

Where did you get the rainford?


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## noy

SUM has them every so often. I find they are not easy to keep - very timid fish and easily intimidated by others (into not coming out to eat).


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## notclear

I had bought two from SUM few months age and they died within days!


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## twobytwo

I cleaned the glass so I figured I'd take a video:






Got a few neat things recently including a Crocea Clam, Red Sponge and a walking dendro

Here are a couple pics I've taken:


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## twobytwo

13.5 months in:

new:









and now:


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## altcharacter

Very Impressive Noah!! Looks awesome!


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## twobytwo

Thanks Dave! A lot of what's contributed to the success in this hobby is people like you and others who have given advice (and frags). I've found myself paying it forward with helping others with new tanks or recovering from a crash. I really can't wait till the BBQ.

Well, since I'm sharing photos, Here's my other setup at the moment... QT on the Bottom, 20 Long for frags on top:


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## twobytwo

What's the cheapest SW fish?










Mollies! Currently being dripped very slowly... 3 days in and they're at 1.010. Im going to use them for algae in my frag tank (there's 3)


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