# Ghost and cherry shrimp???



## Exquizique (Nov 19, 2012)

Hoping someone can provide some advice/insight ...

I'm a newbie with a first 10g tank. Orginally I added 6 ghost shrimp into the tank, one didn't survive the "move" (somehow it leapt out of the bag when transferring into the tank and had to "chase" it quite a distance on the hard floor to retrieve it and put it safely into the tank again ... it died about a day and a half later, I think the stress killed it ), but the remaining 5 appear to be active and thriving (to my untrained eye) for the last 2-3 weeks. They eat like pigs, one has molted, and a few of them seemed to have increased in size. 

Anyways, 3 days ago i added 4 cherry shrimp to the tank. Was a little concerned that they would get picked on because the ghost shrimp are much larger than them, but the last 3 days or so the little cherries seem fine - swimming around, pretty active, checking out everything in the tank and eating - and the ghost shrimp don't appear to be picking on them, at least not when i'm looking and observing then. 

Then, this morning I woke up to find a ghost shrimp munching away at a cherry shrimp carcass! The head and tail were already gone. I was so upset (my husband was sympathetic but teased me for "humanizing shrimp"). I checked on all of them the night before and they all seemed fine, active and eating well. 

So now i'm wondering if the unfortunate cherry just died of natural causes for whatever reason, and the ghost shrimp is just scavenging the body. Or, if the ghost shrimp somehow ganged up on it and killed it. I've read different things online, some say never mix ghost and cherries and some say they've always mixed them and they get along just fine. I'm worried about the cherries now, and wondering if i should remove them ...

Anyone here with experience or first hand knowledge?? It's just a 10g moderately planted tank, lots of nooks and crannies to hide in my opinion. I'm still upset and just so shocked because last night everyone seemed to be happy and healthy and getting along just fine ...


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## ppaskova (Apr 27, 2010)

Well ghost shrimp has been known to be aggressive to other fish and shrimps. I would not keep (and I actually don't) with other small fish or other shrimps like cherries. Also where did you get your cherries from ? I had bad and good experiences with cherries. Usually they hardy but it took me a while and few cherry shrimps providers until I started my colony. And even today in my 10GL Shrimp only tank where I have only RCS CRS and amano shrimp I do find dead shrimps here and there sometimes.


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## Exquizique (Nov 19, 2012)

ppaskova said:


> Well ghost shrimp has been known to be aggressive to other fish and shrimps.


Oh no  Guess i'm learning the hard way ...



ppaskova said:


> I would not keep (and I actually don't) with other small fish or other shrimps like cherries.


How big does a fish have to be to be safe with ghost shrimp? Can you provide some names as examples?



ppaskova said:


> Also where did you get your cherries from ? I had bad and good experiences with cherries. Usually they hardy but it took me a while and few cherry shrimps providers until I started my colony. And even today in my 10GL Shrimp only tank where I have only RCS CRS and amano shrimp I do find dead shrimps here and there sometimes.


I got the cherries at the Whitby BA. The ghosts i got from Petsmart. Are you able to recommend some good shrimp providers? i'm not after anything too fancy at this point in time, just good, healthy stock.


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## ppaskova (Apr 27, 2010)

The fish does not need to be big but aggressive or fast enough to handle the ghost shrimp. For example Barbs, razboras, some tetras, betas.
As per cherry shrimp I never had success buying them from BA vs. buying fish from BA. I'll recommend to go to this forum's Buy & Sell -> Fresh water life stock section as check some adds there. Some people always sell RCS there


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

The problem with ghost shrimps is that they're bred and sold as feeders, so they will likely not survive long in any case. Unlike cherry shrimps, ghost shrimps cannot breed in freshwater.

It is quite possible that your cherry shrimp died on its own and the ghost shrimp was scavenging it.

The key to successful cherry shrimp keeping is to start with a lot of them. If you start with 20-30 of them, you don't need to worry if the odd one dies.

Of course, this all assumes that your tank is fully cycled.


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## Exquizique (Nov 19, 2012)

Thanks ppaskova, guess these fish will be high on my list in deciding stocking options!

Thanks Solarz, I wasn't intending to breed shrimp, just simply wanted some bottom feeders for the tank in addition to fish. Don't think a 10g would be enough space for 20-30 shrimp PLUS fish ...


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

Exquizique said:


> Thanks ppaskova, guess these fish will be high on my list in deciding stocking options!
> 
> Thanks Solarz, I wasn't intending to breed shrimp, just simply wanted some bottom feeders for the tank in addition to fish. Don't think a 10g would be enough space for 20-30 shrimp PLUS fish ...


A 10g will support 50+ cherry shrimps plus 5-6 fishes no problem. Cherry shrimps have negligeable bioload.

The more important question here is, is your tank cycled?


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## Exquizique (Nov 19, 2012)

50+???? Oh wow ... doh, i'm such a noob! Perhaps more cherry shrimp is in my future 

Tank's cycled ... took a few weeks and it was so hard to wait lol ...


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## camboy012406 (Jun 11, 2010)

ghost shrimps are dangerous better to seperate them


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## ppaskova (Apr 27, 2010)

Agree with Solarz. I had easily in my 10GL tank 10+ fish and over 60 Cherries and 20 crystals and 3 amano shrimps with no problems for a yea. But when my cherries reached over 100 I converted it to shrimp only tank. But my tank is havely planted with good light.
Unfortunately this tank leaked after I moved and after replacing the tank I lost half of them. Now trying to rebuild the colony.


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## chinamon (Jun 16, 2012)

i have over 110 shrimp in my 10gal consisting of RCS, golden bee and amano.

that number was what i last counted over a month ago when i counted them one at a time as i removed them from the tank to re-scape it and get rid of the pond snail infestation. now there are some baby RCS and baby golden bees in there so its more than 110.


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## Exquizique (Nov 19, 2012)

Well i got home tonight and looked forthe cherries. I've only managed to count/see 2 ... hopefully the 3rd one is simply hiding away somewhere .... starting to get really worried about the little guys, i'm having a hard time vacillating between decisions but the gost may have to go if i can't trust them to leave everything else alone  Question is, if i remiove them, where do they go??? I onkly have the one tank right now and can't see myself getting another tank just for ghost shrimp ... i get too attached to these little critters ... sigh ...


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## ppaskova (Apr 27, 2010)

Exquizique said:


> Well i got home tonight and looked forthe cherries. I've only managed to count/see 2 ... hopefully the 3rd one is simply hiding away somewhere .... starting to get really worried about the little guys, i'm having a hard time vacillating between decisions but the gost may have to go if i can't trust them to leave everything else alone  Question is, if i remiove them, where do they go??? I onkly have the one tank right now and can't see myself getting another tank just for ghost shrimp ... i get too attached to these little critters ... sigh ...


Return them to Pet Smart. They have 14 days return policy for fishes. And get yourself more cherries


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## Exquizique (Nov 19, 2012)

ppaskova said:


> Return them to Pet Smart. They have 14 days return policy for fishes. And get yourself more cherries


The ghosties are already past the 14 days ... anyone want some ghost shrimp? Ok, just half-joking ... seriously, I get so attached to each and everyone one of them (they are all named ), I'm really upset about the whole ghosts not getting along with the cherries thing ... I'm sort of comtemplating getting a little 5g or something and move the ghost shrimp in there with a betta or something ... do they get along with Bettas??

Can't get more cherry shrimp until I figure this out, and have to find out where to get more cherry shrimp that won't cost me an arm and a leg too 

Edited to add: Counted all three cherries today so am glad that there were no more casualties! Fingers crossed that they are safe until I settle on a solution ...


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

Exquizique said:


> The ghosties are already past the 14 days ... anyone want some ghost shrimp? Ok, just half-joking ... seriously, I get so attached to each and everyone one of them (they are all named ), I'm really upset about the whole ghosts not getting along with the cherries thing ... I'm sort of comtemplating getting a little 5g or something and move the ghost shrimp in there with a betta or something ... do they get along with Bettas??
> 
> Can't get more cherry shrimp until I figure this out, and have to find out where to get more cherry shrimp that won't cost me an arm and a leg too
> 
> Edited to add: Counted all three cherries today so am glad that there were no more casualties! Fingers crossed that they are safe until I settle on a solution ...


First rule of this hobby: have patience.

Second rule of this hobby: don't worry so much!

Did you get those cherry shrimps from pet smart as well? You can get them for much cheaper from private sellers. I myself sell them here:

http://gtaaquaria.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35824

You're worried right now about your cherries because you only have 3 of them. Once you get 20-30 of them, they become a self-sustaining population that you never have to worry about.

You can always put up an ad here and see if anyone will take your ghost shrimps.


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## Exquizique (Nov 19, 2012)

solarz said:


> First rule of this hobby: have patience.
> 
> Second rule of this hobby: don't worry so much!
> 
> ...


Thanks solarz ... all good rules, but hard to follow  And my husband agrees with you on the second rule - "Stop worrying about them so much, they're shrimp!" lol ...

I got the cherries from BA. They looked lively and healthy when I picked them up, but I guess you can never tell. They still appear to be doing well though, always eager for food when I'm feeding, just worried whether they are being picked off by the ghost shrimp (no match for 5 other ghost shrimp double their size!) ...

I like your prices for cherries!!! You're quite a drive from me though ... i'm in bowmanville  But I would like more cherries ... will probably take your advice and post an ad.


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

I doubt your Ghost killed your cherry. The cherry probably died and then the Ghosts had a nice meal. All shrimp, pretty much, are scavengers, and will eat anything dead or so near dead it isn't moving. But they are not, in my experience, aggressive toward anything else, except each other over food. Even then, it's only sparring over who gets to run away with the prize.
I've bred Ghosts, and Snowballs, which are just a white Cherry shrimp, in the same tank. 30G, plenty of cover plants and wood, rocks, etc. Both types survived in noticeable numbers, considering the tank was not set up for shrimp breeding. No sponge filter, no covers over the HOB intakes.. still, baby shrimp survived in there with all the fish and other things.

To be fair, Ghosts will eat newborn Cherry or Snowballs, but only if they find one and catch it. Baby shrimp are instinctually great at hiding,so long as you provide good hiding places, many will survive. I had some in a breeder net once. One Whisker, one Danio and one Ghost all found their way into the net and ate more than half the newborn shrimp in it. But I still had enough survive that I have a breeding colony of Snowballs today.

Ghosts aren't a death squad seeking out the Cherries, unless perhaps they are starving, which should not be the case if you are feeding them.

But if you would rather rehome the Ghosts, I would take them, if we can figure a way to get them here. 

I've kept several species of Danio, including Celestial Pearls, who are very small, as well as very young Orange Hatchet Danios, also quite tiny when I got them, in the Ghost tank. I also had Blue Claw Whisker shrimp, Ghosts, Snowballs, Fan shrimp and loaches all in a 30 G tank together. The FISH are a greater danger to young shrimp than other shrimp are. Despite the larger Danios, Ghosts and Whisker shrimps all living in that tank I had a surprising number of baby Snowball and baby Ghosts survive to adulthood in there, with no special effort on my part at the time. I doubt that would have happened if the Ghosts were ganging up on the Snowballs. I've seen them all feed at the same area and get along quite nicely.

Let me know if you decide you'd rather rehome them though, send a PM. They'd have a nice life in my breeding tank.

I've never seen a Ghost go after any fish, any snail, or any shrimp, aside from the arguments over food. My Whiskers do that too, and they are twice the size, but also pretty peaceful critters. Food fights seem to be a primary form of entertainment for them.


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## Exquizique (Nov 19, 2012)

Fishfur, thank you so much for the detailed post! Who would have thought that I'd be learning so much about shrimp when I decided i was going to start a "fish tank" for the first time lol ... funny how things turn out! 

Thank you so much for your kind offer - I rehomed the four largest ghost shrimps yesterday (they've gotten huge since i got them!), so that I could stop stressing about it and the husband can stop rolling his eyes lol. But I do really appreciate your offer and had I not had a taker I would probably have taken you up on your offer  I am very impressed by how helpful people are on this forum! 

I think you are right though, that that unlucky cherry just died for whatever reason and it wasn't killed by the ghost shrimp. I haven't noticed any casualties since and every one of them are all lively (they have lots of character, these little guys!) and swimming around, still eating like pigs lol.

Say, you wouldn't happen to have a stash or know someone who has a stash of Java Moss to sell do you?


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

Sorry, not at the moment. Java moss is often available at the LFSs, but the portions are not very big. Typically, you'll get a better deal buying privately. Java is always in demand, for sure. Though if you are not in a hurry, I might have some in the New Year. I've got two big chunks in the Betta tanks, and they will grow, but slowly. Eventually I will have enough for a portion to sell. Hopefully someone else already does. 

I'm too tired to do it myself just now, as I don't usually stay up this late, but you can certainly check the Buy/Sell Marketplace on this forum, under Plants. If someone has it but does not want to ship it, I can help with that if you wish.

How big did your Ghosts get ? The largest ones I've seen so far haven't been all that big. Certainly smaller than an adult Amano. But also about twice the size of a cherry shrimp. You should see my Bamboo, or Fan shrimp. The big boy is almost four inches long, has big thick front walking legs and quite a stout body. Makes a Ghost look tiny !

Ghosts are funny little guys though, aren't they ? They remind me of a cartoon I saw as a kid, of a short, chubby business man type, holding tightly to a briefcase with one hand, while the other hand is struggling to keep his hat from flying away in a strong wind, while his legs are scurrying so fast under him you can barely see them. 

I'm sure that's probably weird, but that's what come to mind whenever I watch them zipping around the tank, especially if they have just grabbed or stolen a morsel of food. I think it's the kink in their backs that does it.. just makes them look harried .


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## Exquizique (Nov 19, 2012)

Fishfur said:


> Sorry, not at the moment. Java moss is often available at the LFSs, but the portions are not very big. Typically, you'll get a better deal buying privately. Java is always in demand, for sure. Though if you are not in a hurry, I might have some in the New Year. I've got two big chunks in the Betta tanks, and they will grow, but slowly. Eventually I will have enough for a portion to sell. Hopefully someone else already does.
> 
> I'm too tired to do it myself just now, as I don't usually stay up this late, but you can certainly check the Buy/Sell Marketplace on this forum, under Plants. If someone has it but does not want to ship it, I can help with that if you wish.


Thanks Fishfur! I've been asking around, and have been following up on a couple of leads. One local one looks promising and I'm waiting to hear back ... fingers crossed!!



Fishfur said:


> How big did your Ghosts get ? The largest ones I've seen so far haven't been all that big. Certainly smaller than an adult Amano. But also about twice the size of a cherry shrimp. You should see my Bamboo, or Fan shrimp. The big boy is almost four inches long, has big thick front walking legs and quite a stout body. Makes a Ghost look tiny !
> 
> Ghosts are funny little guys though, aren't they ? They remind me of a cartoon I saw as a kid, of a short, chubby business man type, holding tightly to a briefcase with one hand, while the other hand is struggling to keep his hat from flying away in a strong wind, while his legs are scurrying so fast under him you can barely see them.
> 
> I'm sure that's probably weird, but that's what come to mind whenever I watch them zipping around the tank, especially if they have just grabbed or stolen a morsel of food. I think it's the kink in their backs that does it.. just makes them look harried .


The largest one was almost 2.5 times the size of the largest female cherry in my tank (which was the same size as the other ghosts) ... I have no idea how he got that large! The rest were roughly around double the size of the cherries.

Ive seen some larger shrimp while browsing around the LFS too ... they look scary being that size lol 

Yeah they are neat little characters  They do remind me of something from a cartoon too lol. I find it especially interesting to watch them stuff themselves with some stray fish flake, and then get distracted and scurry off to munch on some veggie piece they spotted - because they are pretty much transparent I can see the different coloured foods they are eating layer upon each other in their tummy as they chow down lol!


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

I like watching them hasten away while clutching a pellet that will be too hard for them to eat until it softens. They remind me of a toddler hanging onto a toy he'd rather not share. 

Some will hang onto the pellet for dear life and spar with other shrimp to keep the prize, some abandon them when they find it's not yet edible. Cool little dudes to watch.


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