# Fishless Cycling Frustrations



## Violie (Feb 27, 2010)

Here's the facts:
4ppm ammonia (hasn't seemed to fluctuate in the past 48 hours since I added ammonia to tank)
2ppm nitrite (also seems about the same for the past 48 hours)
20-30ppm nitrate (just checked it for the first time since beginning cycling)

I find it a bit difficult to match the colors for my API test kit I own, so I often ask for second opinions. It seems the colors change depending on the light source and what angle you hold the card&test tube at.

Tank specs:
5gal. 9Watt florescent light (11hours on), AquaTech 5-15 filter w/ carbon insert + secondary insert

I have been trying to cycle my tank for 4 weeks now and have only witnessed my ammonia drop when I did a partial change (I thought I had added too much ammonia). I have added filter squeezings from a friend twice (they have a large tank and very few fish so the water was pretty clear). I had also added gravel from another friend's tank. However, neither friend knew anything about cycling, and the media had to stay bottled while I was at school (I opened the bottle throughout the day and swirled the water in an attempt to give the n-bacteria oxygen).

Today I planted a handful of crypt wendtii to the tank, hoping they may help once they recover from the inevitable melt.

What I need to know is: What is the next step? Whether to do a partial change, or to continue to add ammonia or to just wait some more.
And: how is my progress looking?

This is my first tank, so bare with me please 

Oh yes, and this tank is intended for one betta splendens and maybe some ghost shrimp/ADFs once I feel it's established enough.


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## TBemba (Jan 11, 2010)

I would go get the betta and put him in the tank. Betta's are pretty forgiving fish where water conditions are concerned. I have a 5 gallon Bowl and I change about 90% of the water every week add water conditioner to the pail before adding it back in the tank make sure the water is cool and roughly the same as the tanks. I have no heater or filter I feed sparingly 2 or 3 1mm NLS pellets a day. I've had mine like this for over 2 years. I love there personality they seemed to all have different ones. I never test the water


I do find Betta's really don't like tank mates of any kind if they are male. No he will not be lonely or sad he likes to be alone. Flash him with a mirror every now and then to play with him don't tease him and keep him interested. Put in cave or half a flower pot in the tank they like a place to hide and rest if needed. They don't mind plants. If you got females you could keep more than one but I would advise 5 or 6 to spread out the aggression they have a peaking order


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## bae (May 11, 2007)

I'm something of a heretic here -- this isn't the party line in aquarium keeping, although 
I've been keeping and breeding fish on and off for decades.

IMO, your tank doesn't need any more cycling. Do a big water change, let ammonia and nitrite drop to zero, and add your betta. All my tanks have plants, and I've never cycled anything. I use filters mostly to catch debris, I stock relatively lightly and do water changes. One betta in a 5 gallon tank is not much of a load, and bettas live in swampy conditions in nature. You've already got a betta in a 6 quart bowl -- no filter, right? -- and he's okay, isn't he? We've all seen bettas survive in a few ounces of filthy water. Your tank will be a paradise for a betta.

The color cards can be hard to read under artificial light. You'll get the most accurate readings in daylight from a window.

You might want to toss in some easy and/or fast growing plants. Bettas like floating plants like duckweed or frogbit or water sprite to lurk under. Plants not only suck up ammonia, but they provide a lot of surface area for bacteria to colonize, especially fine textured ones like java moss, hornwort, etc.

I'm assuming you're using something to remove chlorine and chloramine from your water. 

Five gallons is pretty small and your filter may be overwhelmed by 4ppm of ammonia. I'm not familiar with that brand, but it may not have enough surface area to support enough bacteria to handle a heavy dose of ammonia like that, while being perfectly adequate for a normal bioload, and certainly a single betta. I run all my small tanks without filters, just using plants and water changes to maintain water quality. If your filter can take a sponge insert, that would be more useful than the carbon.

Where is Clarington? I can probably send you some java moss and Amazon frogbit by mail if the weather stays fairly warm like it's been. PM me.

Oh, one more thought -- are you sure what you're using is a pure ammonia solution? If it has any additives (color, scent, or especially detergents) it may be killing the bacteria instead of feeding them.


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## buffalo (Mar 6, 2010)

So much for speed as the usual time for a cycle without adding ammonia is about 4 weeks. You don't continuously add ammonia . When i start a cycle that way i add it in the beginning and wait for the nitrate to increase and the ammonia to decrease, then wait for the nitrates to decrease.
Don't add anymore ammonia allow the tank to cycle. If you're running a filter you can get some filter floss from an established tank. Allow the bacteria to build on the abundance of ammonia . Test to see when ammonia drop to 0 and nitrate also drops to acceptable range. Then do a partial water change and add some fish.


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## Violie (Feb 27, 2010)

Thanks for the advice and reassurance everyone. I realize betta do well in uncycled tanks and are quite hardy, however, I figure knowing how to properly cycle a tank is a good skill to have


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## buffalo (Mar 6, 2010)

Yes and its just a matter of time before you upgrade to a big aquarium


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## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

I have been in and out of the hobby several times. I have not cycled a tank since 2005. It's pointless.

Just clone. Grab a coffee with someone off the board, invite them over to help you with your setup. Fish people are generous, eccentric folk and we like to blather on about our fish to whoever will listen. 

People are always willing to give you some biomedia if you're willing to pay for a replacement. Ie, here's a new bag of bio rings, here's a bag of seeded biorings, bam tank cycled.

It's just a month of thumb twiddling that can just as easily be avoided.

You need next to nothing for a five gal. I'll give you what you need if you want to come get it. So will 20 other people I'm sure. I'm in scarborough at the southwest end.


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## Violie (Feb 27, 2010)

I wish it were so easy, my location is a little out of the way. I'm on the fringes of the GTA, and I don't have my lisence yet. I would have to navigate through transit. But thanks for the offer anyways


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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

Lol, Violie, your tank looks cycled to me. 
When you see Nitrate that high, then you have reached what you aimed for. The only reason you are getting 20 -30 ppm Nitrate means you have the neccessary bacteria to produce that much. It's cycled. It might not be fully cycled, but yeah it's cycled.
If you've been getting your nitrate that hight, then you tank was probably cycled for a while now.
You just need to make a big water change.
Stop adding ammonia (will poison your fish).
And add fish.

While I agree that a betta can some what weather the ammonia poisoning. It's better not to burn them with it. If you have doubts about how that would feel. Do the eye drop test. Get an eye drop, then skirt them water into your own eye and see how that feels .... after that, you will know how your fish would feel. If you don't have the guts to do that or have doubts about doing it. Then don't do the same to your fish.

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## BettaBeats (Jan 14, 2010)

I usually just add in an algae wafer and let the process do what it needs to do. This is my 3rd tank and the last two were cycled within a week or two. Plants help a lot, but you do need biomedia so things can start breaking down and building up your filter.

I think. I'm kind of a noob.


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## Violie (Feb 27, 2010)

Alright, I get paid tomorrow so I'm picking up a bag of Flourite so I'll do my big change then, I plan to do some scaping while the water is low. I'm sure the crypts would appreciate some decent gravel


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## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

Violie said:


> Alright, I get paid tomorrow so I'm picking up a bag of Flourite so I'll do my big change then, I plan to do some scaping while the water is low. I'm sure the crypts would appreciate some decent gravel


If you already had substrate and you are switching you will cause a small upset in the amount of bacteria when you switch so dont be startled at the ammonia for a day or so and maybe 2 days of nitrite.

Remember, fluorite is dusty. When you pour water in over it, use a bag or plate or something to pour the water over, and run your filters on a bucket or something for a couple of hours so the dust from the fluorite can settle. No use sucking it up and having some of your bacteria choked out by dust.

After a few weeks the fluorite won't dust anymore because the dust will be flocculated by the layer of goop the bacteria live in. Not a scientific explanation but thats what happens.


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## Violie (Feb 27, 2010)

I just plant to add to what gravel I have right now and use the rest of the flourite in the 10gal. Basically, after trying to plant my crypts I realized my gravel bed is a little thin. And I plan to rinse the flourite a lot.

Fret ye not


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## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

Violie said:


> I just plant to add to what gravel I have right now and use the rest of the flourite in the 10gal. Basically, after trying to plant my crypts I realized my gravel bed is a little thin. And I plan to rinse the flourite a lot.
> 
> Fret ye not


You can rinse it until 2011 it'll still dust up your tank. Otherwise it'd be a poor planting medium.


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## Byronicle (Apr 18, 2009)

I had a 25 gallon cycled in 3 days, just by adding a lot of fast growing plants.

its called the silent cycle, and it works really well. After that 3 days, tested the water, everything was fine, and I dropped in 100+ cherry shrimps.


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## Violie (Feb 27, 2010)

Water was still at 4ppm today so I did a 60% water change, have the ammonia down to 1ppm. Didn't bother with nitrites/trates. If the ammonia drops to 0 by the morning I'll feel optimistic.

I was thinking that I may have stalled my cycle with too much ammonia/nitrites so I'm hoping that this will help it get going again =/


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## Byronicle (Apr 18, 2009)

fishless cycle can be tricky so don't get too frustrated, a lot of us get problems too 

but yea bettas are hardy guys, i read how in southeast asia, you'll find these guys in potholes in the road and they will just be there until the next flood comes by


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## Violie (Feb 27, 2010)

My 1ppm of ammonia has not changed in 12+ hours. My nitrites are at 0.25ppm (I didn't check them after water change). I'm thinking I need to take someone's filter floss because this whole process is just starting to get me ticked off. I mean, why the hell do I have nitrates and nitrites if my ammonia isn't dropping!? It makes NO sense. At all. Either my cycle is stalled, or I had a mini cycle somewhere along the way. Last time I asked for filter media in the buy&sell thread, I got one reply and a 'wait it out'. Went to the local pet store and couldn't get filter squeezings 'cause they didn't want to 'infect my tank with something' WELL HOW CAN YOU SELL PLANTS/FISH THEN? Ugh. Just. Bleh. A month. A month and I don't know WHAT is going on. What do I do, wait another month? Everything that my friend's tanks could have helped with, they can't, cause the bloody bacteria dies while I'm attending school. Do I need more filter media? Is my carbon insert killing me? I don't know. *sigh*


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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

Violie said:


> My 1ppm of ammonia has not changed in 12+ hours. My nitrites are at 0.25ppm (I didn't check them after water change). I'm thinking I need to take someone's filter floss because this whole process is just starting to get me ticked off.... *sigh*


That's fine, if your cycle stalled, then just do another %50 water change today. Just a question though, did you dechlorinate your tab water?
Also ... I am wondering what is the pH of you tank. You might as well take out your carbon and trash it. I don't know why it's in there in the first place. It just keep messing around with the chemistry in your tank.
I am just wondering, why do you have a 1ppm ammonia? Not that it's a big deal, if some of the bacteria dies, it will produce ammonia, eventually convert to nitrate.
Nothing is always black and white, you'll need lots of patient for this. And well ... 1 month would have ticked me off too hahaha. It's ok though, you're learning. It takes a bit of a learning curve to ramp up. But after that, you should be good until your fish die or your tank goes on a melt down. Now that is going to hurt there.

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## Violie (Feb 27, 2010)

Thank you for the reassurances. That last post was a bit of an angry rant more than anything. I didn't get enough sleep last night and was quite grumpy. The 1ppm of ammonia is what was left over after my 60% water change from a previous dose.

The carbon insert is in there in the first place because this site is the only one that said to take it out when I'm cycling, and I only got to this site 3 weeks into the cycling process. I thought I'd leave it now since it probably has bacteria on it.

The pH of my tap water & tank is 8 and I do use tetra dechlorinator.

Thanksss soooo much everyone, I feel like a bit of a pest and a n00b, but every bit of advice and encouragement helps


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## BettaBeats (Jan 14, 2010)

I never used carbon. I feel a good, hearty filter, is best. Even a cartridge filter can be used long past it's 'prime' if kept clean with semi-weekly squeezes into removed water.


thing is, I think your entire nutrient balance is off. You're cycling your tank and DOSING? 


I don't think your bacteria have had a chance to become themselves! it seems you're trying to treat them as plants.


A tank with plants, and a nutritious substrate wouldn't need dosing unless it was 3-4 months and attempting to REALLY bring out colour and fame. 


You might be overloading the bacteria and killing them.



I've never heard of someone dosing a cycling tank.

I'm surprised on one has picked up on this.,


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## Violie (Feb 27, 2010)

BettaBeats said:


> I never used carbon. I feel a good, hearty filter, is best. Even a cartridge filter can be used long past it's 'prime' if kept clean with semi-weekly squeezes into removed water.
> 
> thing is, I think your entire nutrient balance is off. You're cycling your tank and DOSING?
> 
> ...


Its a dose of ammonia. To feed the bacteria


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## BettaBeats (Jan 14, 2010)

give them some oxygen. they are aerobic.


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## BettaBeats (Jan 14, 2010)

you might have built up too much ammonia and the cycle could be complete, you just didnt let it finish.


high levels of nitrates without water change or plants = normal , especially dosing that much ammonia..


AKA something (nitrates) were produced at the end of the cycle..



you are ready to go.


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## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

Do you have nitrate? If you have nitrate you're cycled. You may have slightly insufficient colonies of nitrobacter and nitrosimonas... or nitro spira as a certain manufacturer likes to claim without scientific proof  -- but anyways, if you have nitrate, go get fish. Don't feed for two or three days. Obviously, stop adding ammonia, that goes without saying.

What are you going to put in there?










Typically, this is what you're looking at, with a stable tank around day 30


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