# balloon new guinea red rainbowfish



## Holidays (Apr 18, 2010)

at North york ba, interesting haven't seen this one before

http://www.bigalscanada.com/Stores/Specials/Fish/Fishspecials_NorthYork.html?reloaded=true


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## BillD (Jun 5, 2006)

Another abortion better to have been left alone.


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## Holidays (Apr 18, 2010)

awww come on just because it has birth defect, it shouldn't live in an aquarium and breed? all pet fish should be cared for equally.


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## BillD (Jun 5, 2006)

This is another man made monstrosity that isn't needed. It shouldn't be allowed to breed.


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## Holidays (Apr 18, 2010)

They're just like "height challenged", doesn't mean they shouldn't breed with other "height challenged" fish...so what should happened to these balloon fish


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## Gargoyle (Aug 21, 2008)

Just remember - balloon deformities don't happen randomly in the individual fish sold. It's a birth defect causing intestinal problems that is quite common in fish. To sell them, a breeder must select for this genetic mutation and breed it until it breeds true as a form in quantities large enough to be sold. It is exactly the same process as selectively breeding a fish for a colour or longer fins. The difference is it seems to produce fish with severe digestive difficulties.
This fish is, in effect, 'made' with this at the very least uncomfortable and probably painful deformity. It seems like cruelty to me.
You buy it, you encourage the producers.


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## Holidays (Apr 18, 2010)

there won't gold fish though without balloon selective breeding


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## Gargoyle (Aug 21, 2008)

Balloon deformity goldfish are much shorter lived than real goldfish (which were around for centuries before the balloon deformity was chosen and bred for as a novelty fish). As they digest their food, they tend to be unable to expel any gas. As they bloat, they can completely lose their equilibrium and float out of control, or in awkward positions. I had one donated to the school tank I tend that would get caught on the filter intake of a weak filter after meals. I felt very sorry for the poor thing.
Regular goldfish have dorsal fins, unlike the more expensive and severely handicapped balloon breeds. They are normally streamlined fishes that are gold, although a significant number of the fry will show up brass coloured, closer to the natural form. Commercial farms usually kill those ones as they sell poorly, but when I bred goldfish, the majority were brass. And not one was a balloon.
There are commercial balloon rams, mollies and now rainbows. I've had the deformity show up in my wild-type mollies, in a krib and in a killie once. I let them live their lives out away from breeding groups - short lives, but as normal as they could be. I would never be nasty or greedy enough to line breed that deformity, and if I did, I hope you'd never buy from me! 
It's the only way to stop the intentional production of the poor things. Bad luck is one thing, intentional design is quite another.


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## Holidays (Apr 18, 2010)

you mean real goldfish is the koi looking ones?


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## Gargoyle (Aug 21, 2008)

Sort of. Koi are more 'tube shaped' and bigger. Goldfish are heavier bodied - basically golden carp. They started with the brassy fish, and bred gold mutants to make the modern goldfish. The ones that look like the original version are, I believe, called comets. I'm no expert on goldfish breeds, I confess. 
From the comet/common goldfish types, they bred various colour pattern types, then began to produce long fins. The deformity craze started much later.
I don't like to see it spreading because the fish are messed up, which strikes me as cruel, plus I like my fish to be fish, as it took millions of years for them to evolve to look and behave. Those poor waddling manmade hunchbacked goldfish (I think a different mutation than the balloon, although I have seen straight balloon goldfish like the poor guy donated at our school) just make me sad when I see them. And I know, lots of people love the look.


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## Holidays (Apr 18, 2010)

Gargoyle said:


> Sort of. Koi are more 'tube shaped' and bigger. Goldfish are heavier bodied - basically golden carp. They started with the brassy fish, and bred gold mutants to make the modern goldfish. The ones that look like the original version are, I believe, called comets. I'm no expert on goldfish breeds, I confess.
> From the comet/common goldfish types, they bred various colour pattern types, then began to produce long fins. The deformity craze started much later.
> I don't like to see it spreading because the fish are messed up, which strikes me as cruel, plus I like my fish to be fish, as it took millions of years for them to evolve to look and behave. Those poor waddling manmade hunchbacked goldfish (I think a different mutation than the balloon, although I have seen straight balloon goldfish like the poor guy donated at our school) just make me sad when I see them. And I know, lots of people love the look.


I don't know if I can really condemn it. let's say they were borned and we separated them from the group. Two of them paired up and breed, we prevent them by removing the eggs or maybe the babies won't have that deformity? but we won't know because we probably kill the eggs.

Its like if you were borned with deformity, yes you may or may not be hurting but separating you from society and preventing you from breeding with other who has similar deformity...


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## Holidays (Apr 18, 2010)

...kinda cruel too.


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## Holidays (Apr 18, 2010)

I don't know...selective breeding for color or body shape or other characteristics with unknown consequences sounds less cruel than separating this fish by itself until it dies especially if it is a community fish. or feeding it to other fish? if you have one of course. my take is let it live like the rest.

I am not an expert in fish gene, I admit, does less coloration or albino affect fish like human with less melanin (pigmentation) are prone to skin burning or problem


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## Gargoyle (Aug 21, 2008)

Holiday, I think it goes deeper. Balloon goldfish have serious handicaps. They are not going to successfully breed under normal circumstances. A human has to first find a few mutants from various spawnings, then cross them (possibly artificially). Remember, in goldfish breeding farms, any fish with an undesirable look is killed. 80% of the goldfish I raised from eggs were brass, and would have been killed in a commercial farm.
The balloon parents will produce several thousand fry, if they breed normally. The farm will kill all the babies that do not have the balloon mutation (they carry the commercially valuable gene). They will cross the surviving balloons with their siblings to set the strain. The process will be repeated, over and over again, until the number of handicapped fish produced reaches levels where money can be made from them. That's how selective breeding of deformities works.
It is very different from a single mutation (like I had in my tanks). I was able to put the handicapped fish in with a same sex group of their species, and just never take them out for breeding. I've done the same with albino and colour mutant fish. 
It's an 'industrial' process done for money - not an act of kindness. I'd argue that breeding for deformity is very cruel, and that buying deformed fish when we know the process is cruel. In Germany, selling such "cruelty bred" fish is illegal.
The pet trade can be nasty. I've seen mollies in the States with hearts tattooed in fluorescent dye on their flanks - you could see the scar tissue under the dye. You can also buy fish hypodermically injected with fluorescent dye.
You may feel pity for them, but if you buy them, the people who do these things will profit, and therefore continue.


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## Holidays (Apr 18, 2010)

I've heard worse growing up in indonesia, some betta species are selectively bred for a sole purpose of fighting, which of course money are bet. I was very young and never actually seen the fight but the fish store that I bought fish told me when I asked why there are wrapped jar of betta fishes. The only time that these fishes see the light of day and eat is when they are fighting and eating their opponents if they win otherwise they died.


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