# New to planted



## Rodzilla (Jul 4, 2008)

I have purchased a few plants that seem to be dying off at the point where the stem comes out of the substrate. The plants that survived are potted ones. I tested the same species of plant in a jar with regular gravel in the window and the same thing happened. (I do have a basement apt so natural light might be the issue) I have a freshwater tank with a crushed coral mix. Anyone know what the issue could be?

Thanks


----------



## planter (Jun 9, 2008)

Hi

Please answer the following questions

1 what size is the tank ?

2 what substrate are you using?

3 what plants do you have?

4 what type of lights are you using and how many watts of it are you running.


----------



## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

I'd suspect the first culprit may be not enough light for the species involved. Also, crushed coral is not a good substrate, as it is abrasive and can damage the stems.

But as planter said, we need more information to properly help you


----------



## KnaveTO (May 13, 2007)

In addition to the questions planter has asked I would add the following:

Are you dosing the tank with CO2?
What sort of fertilization regime are you using, if any?


----------



## Rodzilla (Jul 4, 2008)

1 what size is the tank ? 40 Gallon

2 what substrate are you using? Crushed Coral mixture

3 what plants do you have? Embarrasing enough, I am not sure. I know the hornwort (which is doing great). The potted ones (I think one is a sword, not sure of the other one) are doing fine, it is just anything I plant into the substrate dies off in about a week. 

4 what type of lights are you using and how many watts of it are you running.
I am using the hood that came with the aquarium, it was origanally for regular bulbs but I purchased flouresent 10 and 14 watt bulbs from big als, I think they are "coralife".

If it is the substrate, can I add gravel on top as I think removing it would be a huge pain in the ass. I will provide a pic so mabye you can identify the plants.


----------



## Rodzilla (Jul 4, 2008)

I als just bought "plant flourish", the directions are to add a cap weekly. Just added the first cap so cant tell if its working.


----------



## KnaveTO (May 13, 2007)

Okay... first off crushed coral is probably one of the worst substrates for planted tanks. The substrate you currently have is primarily used for Saltwater tanks as well as African Cichlid tanks. I would recomend that you replace that when you are financially able. In the interim adding anymore plants would, in my opinion, be a waste of money as they will not do very well till you replace the substrate.

Planted tanks are probably more expensive than regular fish tanks. Primarily because of the substrate you need to purchase as well as the ongoing need to provide CO2 (and at 40gallons you will need to add it) and fertilizer. Currently you are only providing the micro ferts. There are 3 others that you need to consider adding to your tank for your plants to flourish. That is Nitrogen, Potassium and Phosphorus. You may also have to add Iron should you have any plant that require it, such as any of the red plants or the like.

Lighting is also something that needs to be looked at. For a decent planted tank you will need 2wpgs (lets not get into that argument shall we  ) Which menas that the hood on your tank is porbably not enough. Most aquarium kits are designed for fish only tanks. The lighting systems they come with are far from acceptable for planted tanks. So that I would suggest would be your next purchase after the substrate.


----------



## Rodzilla (Jul 4, 2008)

*Plant Pics*

Here are the pics, the floating ones at the top are the plants that let go at the stem as described.


----------



## Rodzilla (Jul 4, 2008)

What substrate would you reccommend? What would be the minimum lighting wattage?


----------



## Calmer (Mar 9, 2008)

The hood you have can hold more compact fluorescent bulbs by adding more sockets. I got some sockets from Canadian Tire and drilled the ends of the hood light area and installed them. Now I have 4 sockets as shown in the picture. You can buy 23 or 26 watt Daylight compact fluorescent bulbs from Canadian Tire or Home Depot that will work well. So that will give you (2 - 23 w and 2 - 13w)
a total of 72 watts


----------



## Rodzilla (Jul 4, 2008)

Great idea! I will pick some up this weekend.


----------



## KnaveTO (May 13, 2007)

There are a couple of different substrates you can choose from on the market. If you want to go the sand route you can purchase 3M quartz sand (T grade) however you will need to maintain a decent fertilization routine as the substrate isn't exactly designed for planted tanks. 

There are planted tank substrates such as Flourite and Eco-complete. These substrates are more expensive however they are specifically designed for planted tanks and thus will hold nutrients for the plants much better than say a sand like 3M. Flourite comes in Red, Black and Black Sand. If you do go with the planted tank substrates be prepared to pay upwards to $30.00 per bag and for a 40gal tank you will probably need 3 bags minimum.


----------



## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

Agreed, your substrate is probably the worst thing for trying to grow plants in.


----------



## Rodzilla (Jul 4, 2008)

Do you think I can add another substrate on top or do I have to remove the crushed coral.


----------



## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

I would recommend removing it. There is no reason for having it in a freshwater tank, unless you are trying to maintain alkalinity for some reason.


----------



## Rodzilla (Jul 4, 2008)

What would you recommend as the best way of removing it?

I have seen postings talking about removing all the fish and stuff..... My thoughts are just to shovel it out and deal with the stressed fish.


----------



## planter (Jun 9, 2008)

If you are looking for a low light low tech tank. Here is what I would do

Lighting- try one of those DIY hoods that Calmer suggested

For substrate go to Rona a get a bag of Schultz aquarium gravel. They cost about $8 dollars each. One bag will give you about three inch's of gravel in a 15 gallon tank. This gravel is the best choice to low tech low budget tanks.

Plants... Buy from hobbyists and make sure you know what plants they are.

Check here

http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=1&filter_by=2

you may not need to add much ferts if any with most of these plants. the stuff you using now will be fine.

Light is the key you need that get that addressed first.

What is your goal? Do you want an expensive high maintenance tank. Or an easy inexpensive one. Both routes have their benefits and disadvantages. You really have to figure this part out. Let us know what you want out of this tank and we can help you get started.

Oh and have fun. Planted tanks are really a joy to keep once you have everything going right.


----------



## Rodzilla (Jul 4, 2008)

I think for a start the low budget tank is my best bet. Thanks for the advise, I will keep posting my progress. I am going to pick up some gravel at Rona tomorrow and remove the crushed coral.


----------



## redclove (Feb 26, 2008)

Hey Rod, Matt here, the guy who sold you your RCS..

it looks like you might not be vacuuming the gravel enough, I can see some debris in your first image. how are you doing your water changes? If you don't have a siphon I can give you one, I have an extra and you are in my neck of the woods...


----------



## Rodzilla (Jul 4, 2008)

I heard that it helps act a fertilizer. Am I way off? I do vacume but not a great deal. The shrimps are loving the horn wort and are doing great.


----------



## Rodzilla (Jul 4, 2008)

I do water changes 20% every two weeks.


----------



## redclove (Feb 26, 2008)

Rodzilla said:


> I do water changes 20% every two weeks.


consider making it weekly 30%, esp if you want to get it established with plants.

fish poop and leftover food will turn and contaminate the water..


----------



## Rodzilla (Jul 4, 2008)

Thanks for the tip. Will do.


----------



## Cory_Dad (Apr 18, 2008)

planter said:


> For substrate go to Rona a get a bag of Schultz aquarium gravel.


I've never seen this at Rona. What colour is it? Is it sharp or rounded sand?

I'm looking to start a new tank for a new batch of C. atropersonatus but this time using a white/light coloured sand rather than pea gravel.

Any suggestions?

Sorry to hijack the thread (not really).


----------



## XbrandonX (Nov 22, 2007)

Hey Rod, welcome.
You're on the right track and going about it the right way by coming here and doing some research. We're all really lucky to have these forums as a resource. After looking at the plants that you showed in your pics I'm guessing the green one with the thickish leaves is some sort of 'Bacopa' and the two red ones look like some sort of 'ludwigia' but here's a good place to check that out for sure: http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myplants/

I've got a 'lowtech' planted with Anubias and Java Ferns in it and I love it.. simple and beautiful.

You don't have to get all high tech to have a nice planted tank but make sure you have the elements that the specific plants need to thrive in. light/substrate etc.. you can get undemanding plants and run a very low maintenance tank that grows lush (slowly though) without all the high tech gear. Your best bet is to look at other 'journals' and 'threads' and do similar to what they did to achieve your own goal.

Definitely switch up your substrate. I'm using home depot 'Play Sand' ($6 for a huge bag, rinse it well with a paint filter from home depot as well) but because its inert I have to stuff it full of root tabs and therefore its not cheaper in the long run.

You can do the same with pool filter sand from a pool supply shop but apparently its really white and debris (fish poop) really shows up on it. It's also inert and would require root tabs for fertilization.

I'm very new to all of this too but HTH,
Brandon


----------



## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

How goes the tank? Did you get a chance to switch out the substrate?

It looks like you have some lighting issues, as the alternanthea (tall red plant) grows really tall and spindly with low light, but when kicked up in light it grows slowly and the stem between leaves tends to be very short. 

Let us know how it's going!


----------



## planter (Jun 9, 2008)

Cory_Dad said:


> I've never seen this at Rona. What colour is it? Is it sharp or rounded sand?
> 
> I'm looking to start a new tank for a new batch of C. atropersonatus but this time using a white/light coloured sand rather than pea gravel.
> 
> ...


Rounded sand. It's in the garden section @ Rona. Here is what the bag looks like.

http://www.watergardensupply.com/Schultz-Aquatic-Soil-p/1067.htm


----------



## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

Rodzilla said:


> I heard that it helps act a fertilizer. Am I way off? I do vacume but not a great deal.


Not at all, it will certainly help produce some nutrients the plants need to grow. I rarely, if ever, vacuum the gravel in my planted tanks.


----------



## Rodzilla (Jul 4, 2008)

Hey all, 

Thanks for all the advise. I was on vacation last week in Calgary (Stampede is a blast!!)

I am planning on doing it this weekend (my weekend is Sunday/Monday), as soon as I am done I will take some pics and keep the progress updated.


----------



## planter (Jun 9, 2008)

Good luck


----------



## Rodzilla (Jul 4, 2008)

Calmer said:


> The hood you have can hold more compact fluorescent bulbs by adding more sockets. I got some sockets from Canadian Tire and drilled the ends of the hood light area and installed them. Now I have 4 sockets as shown in the picture. You can buy 23 or 26 watt Daylight compact fluorescent bulbs from Canadian Tire or Home Depot that will work well. So that will give you (2 - 23 w and 2 - 13w)
> a total of 72 watts


I just finished doing the light before coming into work. Thanks for the tip, the tank is so bright now! Hopefully I will be changing the substrate this week. It has been hard to find time to work on it with all the demands summer brings!


----------



## Rodzilla (Jul 4, 2008)

ameekplec. said:


> How goes the tank? Did you get a chance to switch out the substrate?
> 
> It looks like you have some lighting issues, as the alternanthea (tall red plant) grows really tall and spindly with low light, but when kicked up in light it grows slowly and the stem between leaves tends to be very short.
> 
> Let us know how it's going!


I hope I am not too late to turn this plant around. I will try and post a pic of what it looks like now. (Pretty hurt.... just leaves on the top) Is there any way of pruning this plant to rejuvenate it?


----------



## Calmer (Mar 9, 2008)

Rodzilla said:


> I just finished doing the light before coming into work. Thanks for the tip, the tank is so bright now! Hopefully I will be changing the substrate this week. It has been hard to find time to work on it with all the demands summer brings!


Your welcome  Glad to help.


----------



## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Don't prune it, just try to give it as much light as possible. Hopefully you'll get some growth out of the nodes along the stem.

Swap that substrate out, do a few big water changes, swap in that new light, and your tank should start to turn around within days.


----------



## Calmer (Mar 9, 2008)

I agree with ameekplec. Your plants will be stressed enough with the replanting into the new substrate. If you prune then there is wasted energy growing new leaves when that energy is needed to acclimatize the plant back to where it was before the replanting. It is tough to replant and not damage a plant that wants to float. The roots especially get damaged. 
Here's what I do as shown in the picture. Glue the stones, wait 3- 5 minutes. Then just open up the gravel, drop the plant/stone arangement in and cover. For single stems use one stone 1cm up the stalk. For a rosette type of plant glue stones on top of the roots 1cm away from the plant. I have had great success with this method and there is no toxicity or strange fish/shrimp die off after.


----------



## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

That's a great idea Calmer! A great way to get those difficult to root plants going. 

Another way (but doesn't work with all stems) is to leave them floating for a week or two, during which time, the higher light will promote more growth, but the fact that they are not rooted into substrate will encourage them to put out roots (again, not all plants do this though), at which time they can be replanted easier as they are developing a root structure that will keep them held in place.


----------



## Rodzilla (Jul 4, 2008)

*Finally!*

OK,

I finally switched the substrate to Geosystem Red Mixed Gravel
found at Petsmart... (All the Rona's I went to didn't have the other stuff). It is the same stuff they use in their planted tanks. I installed the increased lighting and am increasing my water changes to 30% weekly. Hopefully this will do it.

Here are some pics, do you think the red plant will turn around, if yes what kind of timeline are we talking?

Thanks for all the help on this one. I will hopefully post success pics next!


----------



## Calmer (Mar 9, 2008)

Regarding the light. If you are going to use the aluminum foil as a reflector then it is important to make sure it doesn't block the slots at the top that lets the heat out. That is if the fixture is the same as mine is. The heat will probably shorten the bulbs life.


----------

