# Question about Ich



## xriddler (Feb 16, 2012)

If all fishes die in the aquarium where Ich was once present and no fish was introduced to the aquarium it was stated that after 3 days of no potential host the ich parasites die off is that true? Or was that statement made under false pretenses.


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

not sure, but, if there are no fish in the tank, the BB would be dieing off fast and after 3 days I don't think there is much left at all.

So, might be best to drain it and start from scratch to help make sure the ick is ok and you have to recycle anyways.

I have heard that ick is present in basically every tank, its just when there is something else off that it is able to become a problem and take over.


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## colio (Dec 8, 2012)

Three days is not enough time, even with a higher temperature. I'd give it at least a week. Maybe 5 days or so if you keep the temp above 86. Better to wait a few extra days thank to get ich again.


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## xriddler (Feb 16, 2012)

that is good to know if ever i get ich. so theres no reason to tare a whole tank down to the bone if i am getting this correctly. even though the BB will be dead but recycling is not something hard and if you have cycled media thats even better, correct?


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## TorontoBoy (Mar 14, 2013)

Here is the best article I found on ich.

I am a newby but successfully treated my goldfish of ich. I use heat and salt. I'll never dump BA water into my tank again.

Raise the temperature of your tank to 85F (80F for goldfish) for a more than a couple of days. You need to catch the organism when it is in its free swimming stage, when it is vulnerable and looking for a host.



> The tomites'/theronts' (cilia active swimmers) metabolism is also temperature-dependent, but they must find a host within a very few days or perish: at 68°F none survived after 55 hours, according to the pioneer expert in fish diseases Wilhelm Schaperclaus.


To keep your cycle you can add some ammonia or throw in a dead shrimp.


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

you can cycle fast with used media.

I would drain all the water, you don't have to totally tear it down.


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## Mr. Scruples (Apr 20, 2012)

I've had great success treating Ich with temperature alone (I didn't want to risk salt killing my Corys).

I simply raised the temperature to 80F and left it there. Everyone in my tank (Cardinals, Espeis, Corys, Lampeyes) seemed to be perfectly fine with that temperature, and I've never had another outbreak, so I've never turned it back down.


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/ich.php

The above is a link to a truly excellent article on treatment of Ich, which provides a wealth of background information on the parasite, treatment and newer findings on the subject. I'm delighted Mr. Scruples cured the Ick and that those fish are well, but I am a bit concerned that maintaining the tank at the higher temperature all the time now the Ick is gone is not necessary, & really not good for the fish.

The only species you have that really prefers a bit warmer water is the Cardinal, and it is said to have a range from 73 to 82. I believe that high end of the range applies mainly for breeding purposes.

Of the other species, the Espeis are the next warmest, but they max out around 76, and the last two prefer it even cooler, 73 or a bit less. My cories are much more active at cooler temperatures than they are at higher ones, for sure.

Though it does depend on which article or authority you consult and any given temperature could be argued for any given fish, I think if you could hit a happy medium around 74 or 75, you'd have healthier, happier fish, that may well be more active and feed better once they have cooler water.

You'll reduce the heat stress on your fish, maybe even reduce your hydro bill a bit if you are using heaters to keep the water warm.

Excess heat and other environmental stresses do shorten the life spans of fish, and cories and cardinals can both live up to five years if conditions are very good.

And that temperature setting certainly won't keep Ich away. Once Ich is gone, it's gone. It can't come back unless you add a new infected fish or water containing the parasitic organism. It does not 'hide' in the water, it must have a host to survive, so once all the organisms are gone, it's a done deal unless you have the misfortune to add a new fish who is infected. They can carry them in the gills where the parasite cannot be seen, so QT tanks are very helpful for this reason alone. 3 weeks in QT, and no sign of Ick, they're good to go in the main tank. And if that was not enough, there is now a seriously nasty strain of Ich out there that's been observed swimming, alive and well, in water temperatures up to 92F. Very difficult to treat, as it is very resistant strain. So all the more reason to maintain fish in the best possible health. Strong healthy fish have a much better shot at surviving an attack of anything that might come their way.

Even if your fish appear to be happy, I would give serious thought to lowering their tank temperature at least five degrees, over a period of hours. I think the fish will thank you for it.


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## Mr. Scruples (Apr 20, 2012)

Fishfur said:


> *well-reasoned smart things*


Well, you've convinced me it would be a good idea to drop the temperature since I'm not planning to add any new fish to the tank for a while anyway.

But I'm curious about something -- aqadvisor.com recommends a range of 77F - 78.8F for the species in my tank, which is a fair bit warmer than your suggestion (and also why I wasn't terribly worried about being *only* 1.2 degrees above their recommended upper limit). Any thoughts on this? [sorry for dragging the thread off-topic here]


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

The parameters you see recommended can vary, depending on which articles you read or whose authority you choose to rely on. There can be a fair bit of variation between one and another. When a new fish is first discovered, hopefully the people involved take readings of the water where they were caught. Whatever those parameters are , they become, at least initially, the 'recommended' parameters for that fish, from temperature to pH and all in between.

But readings taken where a fish was caught don't always turn out to be the best ones for keeping them in a tank, if only because they represent only a tiny 'snapshot' of the environment the fish came from. It can't take into account things like seasonal changes or even changes through the course of a day, be it a nice day or a bad day for the area. Bettas spend part of their native life in tiny mud puddles, but that's not how we keep them in tanks. Nor is it how they are raised commercially, but it is part of their life cycle in habitat during the dry season. 

Sometimes the initial recommendations will be modified once some experience has been accumulated with keeping a fish for awhile. But when I read, say, a dozen articles over a span of time, it seems to me that there are always variations on what is considered ideal for a given species. Sometimes only small variations, but sometimes they can differ quite a bit. And typically it's a range of temperatures, rather than one specific temperature, or pH value, etc. Fish are pretty adaptable, in general.. though of course there are exceptions, some species being very finicky and hard to keep, simply because they don't adapt well to variation. 

Personally, I've had a lot more trouble with fish becoming ill when the water was at the high end of their temperature range than I ever had when the temp's were at the low end of their range, so that's what I've become most comfortable with. I don't keep any species that need very warm temperatures, and I try to keep the tanks on the low side of the range for the species that I have.

I've read some research that concluded that keeping most fish species on the cooler side of the ranges they are supposed to prefer can extend their lifespans in aquariums, and if I can find that article again, I'll post a link. I can't recall just now where or when I read it. But I take into consideration that in nature, fish can move around if the local conditions become uncomfortable for them but in a tank they are stuck with whatever we provide.. so I try not to cause any more stress than is necessary for keeping the water clean. This is not to say I always succeed at it.. but I try.


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## BillD (Jun 5, 2006)

Fishfur said:


> Personally, I've had a lot more trouble with fish becoming ill when the water was at the high end of their temperature range than I ever had when the temp's were at the low end of their range, so that's what I've become most comfortable with. I don't keep any species that need very warm temperatures, and I try to keep the tanks on the low side of the range for the species that I have.
> /QUOTE]
> 
> I would concur with this completely. It has been my experience to be absolutely true. in the wild, species can live at widely different temperatures depending on location.As well, once ich is gone, it is gone for good, unless you reinroduce it. It has been more than 20 years since i last saw ich in any of my tanks.


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## twestacott (Mar 9, 2012)

BillD said:


> Fishfur said:
> 
> 
> > Personally, I've had a lot more trouble with fish becoming ill when the water was at the high end of their temperature range than I ever had when the temp's were at the low end of their range, so that's what I've become most comfortable with. I don't keep any species that need very warm temperatures, and I try to keep the tanks on the low side of the range for the species that I have.
> ...


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