# Overpriced SPS ....



## Patwa

So I was looking for a pic of the SSC acro online, having just bought a frag from Canada Corals last week. Mind you, i'm no SPS guy, but ive seen enough pics of the SSC to know it's an SPS I wouldn't mind having in my tank one day. I just wish mine wasn't browned out :/

Anyhoo, the images popped up and I happened to notice the famous RR Wolverine SPS as one of the hits. You know, that RR acro that makes all the little SPS nerds here and abroad giggle with glee. This is the one currently going for $350 for a 1" frag. (don't worry, the extra $300 is coz it's encrusted on the plug). Anyhoo... when I clicked the link, I was ported to an old 2013 blog entry of someone purporting to have found a virtual identical SPS for a fraction of the cost.

Maybe this is old news to some, but for those who want to read more:http://spscoral.blogspot.ca/2013/01/my-latest-aquisition.html

RR's Wolverine









RFA's Rambo 









looks pretty identical to me, no? apart from the lighting conditions and obvious use of enhanced colour saturation in the RR pic.

...BUT, even if there was a minute difference or two (and I know some of you hardcore SPS'ers might be quick to point em out), it could be due to a variety of reasons that would in no way preclude the two corals from actually being one and the same. Right?

So why does RR (or any other big name coral shop) think a 1/2" frag of ANYTHING could be worth $500, when in fact, the same damn coral, imported by a small name reef shop, half the world away can sell a 1" frag for less than $20??

I've known RR since virtually the beginning.....they've always had an eye for the rare and unusual stuff. To add to this, they consistently brought them in, shipment after shipment. They proved over and over, year after year that they have the best stuff. It's still true today. God knows how many corals I bought from RR back in the day that i'd say were in a league of their own.

But why on Earth would they think $500 /frag is doable....?

I know, I know....sorta like the old line form that movie "if you build it, they will come": "If you find a nice coral, slap "RR" on it, come up with some cool name, someone will by it *no matter what the cost*. I guess i've sorta answered my own question, so this is essentially just me on my soapbox lol ...it's the age of designer corals.....branding and trademarking and what-not.

man i've missed a lot.

that is all


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## Flameangel

*More Rare*

If and when I visit back home (Far East Asia) I can have a much rarer SPS for a cost of 1 bottle of American whiskey.


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## Tristan

I think the last time RR Wolverine was offered it was by FragBox via RR and it was priced at $150 for a 1" frag. 

I mean your selling a 2" frag of leather for $80  

At one time he was the only one that had the Wolverine Acro, now similar corals are popping up so the price will likely come down. I know using that acro was just an example but to be fair I think that is the only one so far that commands a high price and has an extremely similar cheap alternative. 

I don't know, just my two cents, this coming from a guy who has 10 or 11 RR pieces lol...


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## nc208082

Patwa I couldn't agree more. That being said be thankful your in Canada where most corals still cost a decent price compared to what some of the stuff in the US is selling for.

Like would you pay $2000 for a half inch frag of this?
http://www.reefraftusa.com/product-p/sig02.htm

Or how the Jawdropper Acro from reef raft is going for 1200 a frag in some states.


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## Flexin5

imo just like any hobby, you want the best you have to shell out the coin. 

cars - volk wheels and sticky tires brand new $4000 or $6000 built motor that blows up on the dyno during it's first run. 

photography - L series lenses or the latest body = $thousands

and this hobby is no different. 

gotta pay to play lol


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## marblerye

Take a step back and think about it in terms of everything else in life. We put value to it and by buying into this fake made up value we reinforce the idea that ok it's worth that much. In reality, companies try that approach and if people don't buy into it they slash prices just to move the product or dump it on liquidators and move forward to something new. Repeat cycle.

In terms of this hobby, acro corals with the same shape, makeup and structure with the only differing attribute is its color it puzzles me how people can say for example this green acro is $40 for a colony and this purple acro is $75 for only an inch frag. 

From the very people promoting save the reef and aquaculture this and tank raised that.. Keeping it for hobbyists by hobbyists meanwhile gouge their neighbour for as much as he'd likely spend, knock off a buck or two and make him feel like it was a good deal? This is the hobby and seems money is the true goal not the satisfaction. 

Just my thoughts anyway but what do I know I'm crazy.

FYI.. retail markups and the actual purchase cost would make almost anyone cringe. I believe in having the best things and I'll burn money sure; I'm crazy but I'm not crazy enough to fork money over at full retail and feel satisfied with my purchase. There is ALWAYS alternatives to getting what you want. ALWAYS.


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## Bayinaung

I have seen it in person, and it isn't impressive really. I have seen wolverine cultured colonies pop up in other shops as well. A lot of it is about branding lighting and photography. I think it is the hobbyists who live in far away areas and buys on the internet who pays these prices. It's just another sign of the financial bubble, and the economic structural imbalance we have in Canada and the US.


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## Patwa

Tristan said:


> I think the last time RR Wolverine was offered it was by FragBox via RR and it was priced at $150 for a 1" frag.
> 
> I mean your selling a 2" frag of leather for $80
> 
> At one time he was the only one that had the Wolverine Acro, now similar corals are popping up so the price will likely come down. I know using that acro was just an example but to be fair I think that is the only one so far that commands a high price and has an extremely similar cheap alternative.
> 
> I don't know, just my two cents, this coming from a guy who has 10 or 11 RR pieces lol...


touché, my man....touché! lol

in my defense, large frags of that Jap softie were initially sold for $120...mine is double the size and much cheaper.....and i'll double bag it, too! 

I guess my issue was why was the initial price (before the similar corals started popping up after the fact) so high in the first place? Why is it that RR said to themselves 'wow, this Wolverine acro is totally badass, nobody has this, yay! we must sell it for no less than $500/frag.

The logic escapes me........but yes, they prolly know as well as anyone else that with a 300+ million 'murican populace, there'll be some schmuck who'll happily pay it (and more)

I'm sure their wholesale price had something to do with it (knowing that their suppliers in Indo and Australia have smartened up to the worldwide pricing/demand for designer acros, etc) ....but still, $500/frag?

I would bet their cost price for that Wolverine acro was minimal....but then we get into the area of retail markups and price gouging, as to what *marbleye* mentioned.

lmk when you frag them RR acros hehe 



nc208082 said:


> Patwa I couldn't agree more. That being said be thankful your in Canada where most corals still cost a decent price compared to what some of the stuff in the US is selling for.
> 
> Like would you pay $2000 for a half inch frag of this?
> http://www.reefraftusa.com/product-p/sig02.htm
> 
> Or how the Jawdropper Acro from reef raft is going for 1200 a frag in some states.


I count my blessings everyday, man. Every time I pass by Pearson International Airport, I say a quick prayer and give thanks that we have such a port that allows direct shipments from all over the Indo-Pacific - without such a link SO CLOSE to our market, we'd be paying through the nose like the 'muricans, while at the same time fighting over the scraps like they do.

my jaw just hit the ground on that $2000 stick...wtf!

and $1200 for a frag?

reminds me of $1200 yellow/rainbow aussie acan colony Jay was trying to sell back in the day. i'm sure it never sold to anyone locally......but i bet it ended up in some 'Murican chop-shop.



Flexin5 said:


> imo just like any hobby, you want the best you have to shell out the coin.
> 
> cars - volk wheels and sticky tires brand new $4000 or $6000 built motor that blows up on the dyno during it's first run.
> 
> photography - L series lenses or the latest body = $thousands
> 
> and this hobby is no different.
> 
> gotta pay to play lol


na man.....as much as I hate this term; "back in the day" prices were NEVER this outrageous. I can tell you why: There was little to no US influence in the pricing of our corals and frags.

These days, we're inundated with comparisons of US prices and US this-and-that. That NEVER used to happen. When RR was still operating out of a loft and Jensen was sleeping in a bedroom next to the tanks, prices were reasonable, and were most definitely not steered by what was happening south of the border.

This whole story reminds me of an encounter I had with a once-in-a-while importer of corals last winter. I ran into him during an Aussie shipment at a local reef shop. He goes by the name Darren, maybe 23-25 years old, max. It blew my mind the manner in which this fellow was talking. We opened the boxes...unpacked the Aussie corals....and coral after coral he says...."this one right here is called <insert lame coral name> and it it goes for $400 a frag in the USA" ..."ooh this yellow plate goes for 1200 in the USA"..."In the US...." "This store in the US sells this for..."

Over and over, he was quoting US prices...why did he do this? why was his whole idea of pricing Canadian corals based on the American pricing model? He was importing into the Canadian market, but he mindset was revolving around what the damn Americans were paying? does that make sense?

Why do we Canadian give two sh*ts what Americans are paying? We buy at our rates and we should sell at what we think Canadians want.


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## loonie

I am not going to name the LFS, sometime back, I know of a LFS/A who bought a coral from LFS/B for 60bucks and later LFS/A sold that same coral for 500bucks to a customer. It was only later the customer realized that LFS/B was selling the same coral for 60bucks, its the lighting that made the difference. 

Yes Patwa I understand what you saying, end of the day its we the customers who want to pay that kind of money for stuff you can find somewhere for much cheaper price.


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## Reef Hero

I wish beer prices here were steered by the American market lol....$14.97 for 24 cans at Wally!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Flexin5

Patwa said:


> touché, my man....touché! lol
> 
> in my defense, large frags of that Jap softie were initially sold for $120...mine is double the size and much cheaper.....and i'll double bag it, too!
> 
> I guess my issue was why was the initial price (before the similar corals started popping up after the fact) so high in the first place? Why is it that RR said to themselves 'wow, this Wolverine acro is totally badass, nobody has this, yay! we must sell it for no less than $500/frag.
> 
> The logic escapes me........but yes, they prolly know as well as anyone else that with a 300+ million 'murican populace, there'll be some schmuck who'll happily pay it (and more)
> 
> I'm sure their wholesale price had something to do with it (knowing that their suppliers in Indo and Australia have smartened up to the worldwide pricing/demand for designer acros, etc) ....but still, $500/frag?
> 
> I would bet their cost price for that Wolverine acro was minimal....but then we get into the area of retail markups and price gouging, as to what *marbleye* mentioned.
> 
> lmk when you frag them RR acros hehe
> 
> I count my blessings everyday, man. Every time I pass by Pearson International Airport, I say a quick prayer and give thanks that we have such a port that allows direct shipments from all over the Indo-Pacific - without such a link SO CLOSE to our market, we'd be paying through the nose like the 'muricans, while at the same time fighting over the scraps like they do.
> 
> my jaw just hit the ground on that $2000 stick...wtf!
> 
> and $1200 for a frag?
> 
> reminds me of $1200 yellow/rainbow aussie acan colony Jay was trying to sell back in the day. i'm sure it never sold to anyone locally......but i bet it ended up in some 'Murican chop-shop.
> 
> na man.....as much as I hate this term; "back in the day" prices were NEVER this outrageous. I can tell you why: There was little to no US influence in the pricing of our corals and frags.
> 
> These days, we're inundated with comparisons of US prices and US this-and-that. That NEVER used to happen. When RR was still operating out of a loft and Jensen was sleeping in a bedroom next to the tanks, prices were reasonable, and were most definitely not steered by what was happening south of the border.
> 
> This whole story reminds me of an encounter I had with a once-in-a-while importer of corals last winter. I ran into him during an Aussie shipment at a local reef shop. He goes by the name Darren, maybe 23-25 years old, max. It blew my mind the manner in which this fellow was talking. We opened the boxes...unpacked the Aussie corals....and coral after coral he says...."this one right here is called <insert lame coral name> and it it goes for $400 a frag in the USA" ..."ooh this yellow plate goes for 1200 in the USA"..."In the US...." "This store in the US sells this for..."
> 
> Over and over, he was quoting US prices...why did he do this? why was his whole idea of pricing Canadian corals based on the American pricing model? He was importing into the Canadian market, but he mindset was revolving around what the damn Americans were paying? does that make sense?
> 
> Why do we Canadian give two sh*ts what Americans are paying? We buy at our rates and we should sell at what we think Canadians want.


Because:


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## loonie

Reef Hero said:


> I wish beer prices here were steered by the American market lol....$14.97 for 24 cans at Wally!
> unquote
> 
> You will not believe it, I went to a Pub in Boston, a pint of beer, its only $1. At first we were thinking maybe it was a mistake, we went there a second time, it was the same price. Wish we have this kind of prices in Canada.


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## fesso clown

pure and simple supply and demand + perceived/marketed specialness... 
Aint capitalism GRand?


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## Bayinaung

loonie said:


> Reef Hero said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wish beer prices here were steered by the American market lol....$14.97 for 24 cans at Wally!
> unquote
> 
> You will not believe it, I went to a Pub in Boston, a pint of beer, its only $1. At first we were thinking maybe it was a mistake, we went there a second time, it was the same price. Wish we have this kind of prices in Canada.
> 
> 
> 
> yeah but their beer is PISS WATER. You need a case of theirs to get a buzz. Ours is wayyyyyyyyy better. Budweiser brewed here is NOTHING like bud in the US. i.e. way better. I will say Sam Adams brews are pretty good, up to our standards. Went to college in NY man. they love our brews. In the age of wine, our microbrews are suffering though. not enough left. just the shitty ones with good marketing. like the stuff from toronto.
Click to expand...


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## Reef Hero

loonie said:


> Reef Hero said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wish beer prices here were steered by the American market lol....$14.97 for 24 cans at Wally!
> 
> unquote
> 
> You will not believe it, I went to a Pub in Boston, a pint of beer, its only $1. At first we were thinking maybe it was a mistake, we went there a second time, it was the same price. Wish we have this kind of prices in Canada.
> 
> 
> 
> Is that how you got your username haha
> 
> I was at a bar in Detroit a couple years back and they had a Tuesday special.... 69 cent bottles of domestic! Tastiest beer I've ever had
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...


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## Reef Hero

Bayinaung said:


> loonie said:
> 
> 
> 
> yeah but their beer is PISS WATER. You need a case of theirs to get a buzz. Ours is wayyyyyyyyy better. Budweiser brewed here is NOTHING like bud in the US. i.e. way better. I will say Sam Adams brews are pretty good, up to our standards. Went to college in NY man. they love our brews. In the age of wine, our microbrews are suffering though. not enough left. just the shitty ones with good marketing. like the stuff from toronto.
> 
> 
> 
> I have to disagree with you.... Yes, there is the obvious difference in taste between the same named beers like bud and coors light but that's because they are brewed hundreds of miles apart at very different locations. I drink canadian and it's imported from here into USA and sold for a third of the price lol.... Same goes for anyone who loves Heineken or other imports.... Why buy it here?!? Lol oh and Sam Adams is amazing!!!! It's above our standards IMO and their new summer ale is my new favourite! On draft at the Olive Garden in port huron too....mmmm.... Olive Garden!!!!
> Oh and the micro breweries are no comparison.... I think michigan has us beat by quite a few there too....
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...


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