# I'm bored



## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

Since I'm waiting for my code to be built at 11:30pm on a holiday in the office, I'll try to post some random pictures I took recently. These are from my iphone so quality isn't that good, I have some from my DSLR but I seriously need a macro lens to do them justice.

Anyway, bear with me ;-)

One of the CRS I got from novice. He sold them dirt cheap and you can definitely find some nice specimen. This one may qualify as an S+ tiger tooth, but what I like about it is the good colouration. The most important part I look at CRS is the legs, this one has some red on the legs so I might keep it for breeding and see what happens. (ignore the blue, it's from an iPhone, remember)









I got three orange neos (2 female + 1 male) from Frank's about a month ago, both females have released the babies (I have about 30 or more orange shrimplets now), and both female are berried again. I think these shrimps aren't that old and will grow a bit bigger.









The guy who is responsible for the two berried orange.









A shot of their babies having dinner.









One of the PFRs I got from Frank at the same time. I got 10 female and 1 male. At least 4 have released babies and at least half of the females are berried at any given time. This picture doesn't do them justice. You have to see them in person (or when I upload the pics from a real camera) to appreciate their colour. I can count over 50 babies without turning my head at any angle, I have no idea how many babies are in that 6.5G, and at least 1 female releases babies every week. I did find something that works better at breeding them, the water condition in the tank can be better, but I have a 20G almost ready to relocate them.









In my Fluval Spec, there is a serious problem... I didn't treat them because no shrimp/fish are in that tank, just some moss. They look cool  when they kill no shrimp babies. But their days are numbered, I just got paracur for them.









Here are my son's new snails I just got from a nice gentleman on this forum. They will eventually go to my shrimp tanks but for now, they stay with the hydras ;-)









The one that likes to look at the minor.









Thanks for looking at my pics. My build is still going so it looks like gonna be a long night.


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## matti2uude (Jan 10, 2009)

Do you mind telling me where you got the paracur from?


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

matti2uude said:


> Do you mind telling me where you got the paracur from?


It can't be bought over the counter in Canada. You can ask your friends with dogs, they may have some, it's the common dog dewormer. Or if you know some vet, you're lucky.


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## razoredge (Dec 31, 2011)

That's great! You got berried shrimps everywhere! Let me know if your selling any.


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

razoredge said:


> That's great! You got berried shrimps everywhere! Let me know if your selling any.


Hi razoredge, I will wait until they are bigger, but oranges are my wife's pick and she doesn't sell anything she considers hers ;-)


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## brianc (Mar 19, 2007)

I also picked up a few shrimp from novice. A few of them were SS and higher.

Here is a baby.










For the past 3 days I've been having 1-2 shrimp die a day. No idea whats going on  I've been waiting for my test kit to arrive in the mail for some time now. I've been using RO water for changes. Substrate is netlea. Temp is 24c. Any idea what could be happening? They go from swimming normally to falling over and twitching. Some of them come back to life and some of them die. It's aggravating watching it happen.


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## bigfishy (Jun 19, 2009)

brianc said:


> I also picked up a few shrimp from novice. A few of them were SS and higher.
> 
> For the past 3 days I've been having 1-2 shrimp die a day. No idea whats going on  I've been waiting for my test kit to arrive in the mail for some time now. I've been using RO water for changes. Substrate is netlea. Temp is 24c. Any idea what could be happening? They go from swimming normally to falling over and twitching. Some of them come back to life and some of them die. It's aggravating watching it happen.


How did you acclimate your shrimps?


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

brianc, how long has the Netlea been in your tank? How long did you cycle the tank with Netlea? 

Also, I don't think 24 degree for new shrimps is a good idea. (I don't have a heater in my CRS tank) I find that you're much better off to keep new shrimps in lower temperature. They're under stress, minor NH3 poisoned (if long time in transit), no need to bump up their metabolism at the same time to complicate things, just my opinion.


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## razoredge (Dec 31, 2011)

brianc said:


> I also picked up a few shrimp from novice. A few of them were SS and higher.
> 
> For the past 3 days I've been having 1-2 shrimp die a day. No idea whats going on  I've been waiting for my test kit to arrive in the mail for some time now. I've been using RO water for changes. Substrate is netlea. Temp is 24c. Any idea what could be happening? They go from swimming normally to falling over and twitching. Some of them come back to life and some of them die. It's aggravating watching it happen.


I've basically have the same thing happening to me as well. I've been losing 1 shrimp each day. At first it was my red rili and I thought maybe they didn't get along with my CRS/CBS as they were always being pushed off the food which may have caused unneeded stress. Then I started to see my CBS and CRS suddenly die the last couple of days. I did approx a 40% water change this evening (using RO with a slow drip) and started the process of elimination. I removed plants and Mineral ball (that I picked up at AI). I"m thinking that the maybe my Assassin Snail (picking them off one at a time?? Just kidding) was the last thing I introduced to the tank before I found a dead shrimp. I see lots of molting especially after doing a 10% water change each week. Unfortunately, I have no other tank to put in the berried red rilli shrimp as they can't go into my cherry tank.


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## brianc (Mar 19, 2007)

I dripped for 3-4 hours when I first got them.

The tank has been cycling for 3 weeks. So has the netlea. 

I am going to lower the temp a bit. 

What does it mean when they freeze? It's like they are having a seizure and cramp at the same time. It looks quite painful.


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## razoredge (Dec 31, 2011)

brianc said:


> I also picked up a few shrimp from novice. A few of them were SS and higher.
> 
> For the past 3 days I've been having 1-2 shrimp die a day. No idea whats going on  I've been waiting for my test kit to arrive in the mail for some time now. I've been using RO water for changes. Substrate is netlea. Temp is 24c. Any idea what could be happening? They go from swimming normally to falling over and twitching. Some of them come back to life and some of them die. It's aggravating watching it happen.


I've basically have the same thing happening to me as well. I've been losing 1 shrimp each day. At first it was my red rili and I thought maybe they didn't get along with my CRS/CBS as they were always being pushed off the food which may have caused unneeded stress. Then I started to see my CBS and CRS suddenly die the last couple of days. I did approx a 40% water change this evening (using RO with a slow drip) and started the process of elimination. I removed plants and Mineral ball (that I picked up at AI). I"m thinking that the maybe my Assassin Snail (picking them off one at a time?? Just kidding) was the last thing I introduced to the tank before I found a dead shrimp. I see lots of molting especially after doing a 10% water change each week. Unfortunately, I have no other tank to put in the berried red rilli shrimp as they can't go into my cherry tank.


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

I haven't lost any shrimp from Ricky. I got them the day he made the for sale post. If you want to get people's opinion you need to give a bit more info. How big is your tank, how old? Planted? Co2? Any other shrimp/fish in the tank? 

I almost feel guilty these days asking people's ph/gh/kh/tds and if these parameters have been stable in the tank? why? There are always people keeping CRS in tap water and breed like crazy, just like there are people smoking 2 packs a day and enjoy a long happy life. Good water management provides you better success reproducibility, but nothing guarantees you anything.


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## brianc (Mar 19, 2007)

I don't think the CRS deaths have anything to do with novices shrimp, there is likely something wrong with my water. I don't have a test kit yet (still in mail..) so I can't tell for sure. 

It's been cycling for 3 weeks on the netlea with aged aquarium water and a already colonized filter. 

Temp is between 23-24 constantly. No fish. Just the CRS. Didn't do any water changes until the deaths started. Did a big 30% water change and things seem to have gotten better then just started getting worse again. At this point I have given up.  just going to let the tank play itself out. Nothing I can do anymore.

edit: oh btw its pretty much 90% RO water.


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## razoredge (Dec 31, 2011)

brianc said:


> I don't think the CRS deaths have anything to do with novices shrimp, there is likely something wrong with my water. I don't have a test kit yet (still in mail..) so I can't tell for sure.
> 
> It's been cycling for 3 weeks on the netlea with aged aquarium water and a already colonized filter.
> 
> ...


Just to clarify that I did not buy my shrimp from Novice. I picked them up from Franks a couple of weeks ago and everything seemed stable until last week. In no means that I am blaming anyone as the quality of the shrimp are excellent quality. My temp is 21 and I have no fishes and like BrianC I'm at a loss as to why I'm losing one shrimp at a time. Sorry, I also didn't mean to hijack this thread. I already have this posted under my own topic.
http://www.gtaaquaria.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32857&page=3 
I feed the shrimps every second day alternating with a Hikairi Algae Wafers and a half pellet of Borneo Wild Shrimp Barley. Any food residue that is left over after an hour I pull it the remainder out of the tank. I did see a couple of small flat worms in the subtrate.


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

Sorry if I sounded a bit harsh, I feel bad when I hear people having trouble with their shrimp/fish and I can't help. I'm not very experienced with shrimp but I have some technical background to help with water management and aquaculture in general.

All shrimps in my pics were from Frank's except the CRS from Ricky. So far, I haven't seen any dead shrimps. I don't think I'm doing anything better but we can try to find out why your shrimps are dying, and hopefully we (or anyone who read this) can benefit from the findings.

@Brianc: I set up a 20G Long with Netlea on March 11 (see this post for your reference) And I can tell you it's still no where near ready. I have a Marineland 400 power head powering the UGF plus a HOC (hang over back canister filter) running with tons of aeration and bacteria supplement. For the 4 weeks +, I only observe NO2 once. I test the water at least 2 to 3 times a week. The problem with it is that my PH in that tank was 5.3 the first week (now it's toward 5.7), at that PH, there's almost no ammonia in the water (almost all ammonia (NH3) turn into ammoniun (NH4), and AOB (Ammonia Oxidation Bacteria) is very inefficient in using NH4 so there will be little to no NO2, and if there's no NO2 then the other type of bacteria that convert NO2 to NO3 won't grow. So after a month, my Netlea tank is still far from cycled.

Also, I'm pretty sure if you use 90% RO water in Netlea, your initial PH FOR SURE is under PH 5.0 and if you didn't add any mineral in there I doubt any shrimp can survive for long (no calcium, no happy shrimp molting). My guess is that your tank isn't ready yet.

@Razoredge: no worry about hijacking my posts, this is an open forum, everything is everyone's. I'm not sure but have you tested for Nitrate? It can be a problem for tanks after a few weeks if you don't have a lot of moss/floating plants. Although low concentration of nitrate is generally okay, but shrimps definitely don't like them and long term in high concentration will kill them. I suggest you to test NH3/NO2/NO3 and see if there's any clue.

My first impression about Ricky's tanks was -- have I finally seen someone who breeds CRS in tap water and never do WCs? He doesn't use high tech (i.e. expensive) filter/lighting ... etc, and you may find his tanks all over-crowded, he doesn't do WC either (yes, not at all). But make no mistake, I tested his water and they are all perfect parameters -- although they may not look so perfect like what you see at AI (sorry, Ricky ;-).

Happy shrimping, even I hate myself when making long posts.


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## razoredge (Dec 31, 2011)

randy said:


> I'm not sure but have you tested for Nitrate? It can be a problem for tanks after a few weeks if you don't have a lot of moss/floating plants. Although low concentration of nitrate is generally okay, but shrimps definitely don't like them and long term in high concentration will kill them. I suggest you to test NH3/NO2/NO3 and see if there's any clue.


Thanks for the suggestion Randy. Looks like I'll need to pick up another test kit for Nitrates. I've already got Ammonia (Nh3/NH4), GH & KH, PH Test kit and a TDS meter. How many more kits do I need LOL. After the waterchange last night, so far so good.


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## novice (Mar 14, 2006)

Randy LOL - no offense taken - and the moss mess in the tank is maybe the reason the chemistry is good. - would love to have tank set ups like AI - they are a joy to watch and a target to achieve - maybe when i have room to set up decent stands in my Apt.


Brianc - the only reason i can think of is probably the tank wasnt cycled enough - and not really sure how long does netlea takes to settle - not sure if you did tell me if you used a old filter from an established tank ? when breaking in the new tank set up.

Also - I am sure a lot of us have lost shrimps in the begining trying out different stuff - i do understand it is quite an investment initially - but once you know what is working for you and stick to that - things will be fine. 

I am not into chemistry & technicalities - i try and do whats easy and understandable and Ok for my wallet.

there are some great articles in the sticky post on shrimps care and parameters by crystalmeth - and Randy can also chip in with his knowledge -above all patience is the KEY.

I am sure some my methods will be a no no in most shrimp breeders books - but since it works for me i aint changing nothing in any of my tanks.


Randy had a good suggestion where we should set up a shrimp meet - just for exchanging ideas and what works what doesnt and help others set up their tanks/breeding.


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## brianc (Mar 19, 2007)

I'm also guessing that the tank isn't fully cycled yet. Nothing I can do about it now.

What can I do to increase the minerals to help with molting?


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## novice (Mar 14, 2006)

Brian, think frank sells the mineral supplements - not sure if he still has them, and check with frank, he would be good person to take advice from.


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## brianc (Mar 19, 2007)

Will do


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

brianc said:


> Will do


Before you can get the commercial GH supplement, use like 25% to 50% of tap water (aged for at least 3 days to be safe) with RO water. That way, you will get some GH in the water. Pure RO has nothing in it, and Netlea is known to strip minerals from water, so your TDS is likely dangerously low for CRS. Go to Home Depot get a TDS meter, there's another thread talking about the one you can get for like $16. When adjusting your TDS, do it gradually and try to increase it to 150.

As for cycling, there's not much you can do now. With low PH, you don't need to worry about ammonia too much, but the system is not mature and weird things can happen (dying shrimp, low survival rate for babies etc). But I'm sure before long you'll come up with your own system and your shrimps will start to multiply. Good luck.


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## Boogerboy (Sep 23, 2008)

randy said:


> As for cycling, there's not much you can do now. With low PH, you don't need to worry about ammonia too much, but the system is not mature and weird things can happen (dying shrimp, low survival rate for babies etc). But I'm sure before long you'll come up with your own system and your shrimps will start to multiply. Good luck.


I wanna jump in here because I'm in a similar situation. No shrimp (well, 1 shrimp, hitched onto a plant) but I'm also on the 3rd week of Netlea in a brand new tank (so no old water or BB-ready filter). Readings have been 0,0,10 since the only livestock in there really are snails (and the one shrimp). I get the impression that it'd be safe to gradually add more inhabitants, since the tank is fairly heavily planted and I could probably get away with a 'silent cycle'. Do you agree? Otherwise I'm not sure what to do to cycle this tank.

I have liquid ammonia but I only used it once then stopped since I heard Netlea leeches ammonia/ammonium for the first few weeks anyway. I also heard that it won't do an awful lot to stimulate the cycling of a heavily planted tank as the plants tend to get to it before the filter does. But I dont want my water params. to be unpredictable and fluctuate-y. Have you ever tried leaving the NH3 work up to the plants rather than the filter?

The shrimp is an RCS juvie im amazed that he's been doing fine so far, the tank is at 25, uncycled, co2 at near 40ppm.

Sidenotes: I used a free bottle of BA's Bio support I got, later read that these nitrifying bacteria cultures are 99% snake oil, but I went through the bottle anyway. I thought it was worth bringing up on the off chance that the tank magically cycled.

Also (mostly geared towards the other poster's problem) isn't keeping shrimp in low pH in itself a reason for shrimp death? I am furthest as can be from a shrimp expert but I feel like no amount of calcium can counter the weakening of the shell in acidic water.


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

Hi Boogerboy, this is also my first tank with Netlea, I have no idea what's going to happen if you introduce shrimps in it before NH3 is gone. My take is, if I don't add shrimps in it, no shrimp will die in it ;-)

- I did a few things for this tank and nothing worked: use BA bio support (or whatever it's called, I bought a big container of it), use old filter, add a piece of raw shrimp meat to boost NH3. It's more than a month now and I only ever tested NO2 once, and I do the test probably 3 times a week.

- I'm not sure why, even with that raw shrimp meat in the tank, I can't get NH3 over 1ppm. Without the raw shrimp meat, it's around 0.5ppm. In my akadama tank, with raw shrimp meat I got NH3 up to like 2ppm. You don't want it too much such as over 4 or 5ppm because that actually kills the nitrifying bacteria. 

- I'm tempted to add some low grade CRS in the tank and see what happens. But since what I want to keep in this tank aren't ready yet, I have the time to be patient. I still have a new bag of Netlea and I'm debating if I should use it in the new tanks I'm setting up (yes, three more tanks of 85+ gallons of water.)

- Keeping shrimp in acidic water does have the problem of calcium loss (calcium "melts" in low PH, put a sea shell in vinegar and you'll see what I mean). But I believe most people keep bee shrimps (CRS, CBS, Taiwan Bees) in acidic water and the more fragile ones the lower PH, why? Because they live better. The real reason? My take is that due to repeatedly interbreed, these shrimps are lack/short of some kind of enzyme, to compensate that, lower PH either make that enzyme more active, or make shrimps survive without. So it's a trade off. Since most people get better result this way, I follow it. Mind you though, in Europe bee shrimps are kept in high GH and PH and they breed just fine, it's not without a long long long acclimating process though.

- My suggestion to you -- be patient if you can. It's the hardest thing in shrimping. I have heard people who introduce shrimp too early before system cycled/stablized end up having either dying shrimps or growing/breeding issues. Of course, it also depends on the type of shrimp and your luck. In the PFR tank of mine, I introduced 1 male + 10 female PFR 2 days after the tank was filled (with an established HOB filter), and about a month after, I have probably 50 baby shrimps in this 6.5G tank, no adult death, and at least half of the females are berried on any given day.


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## Boogerboy (Sep 23, 2008)

randy said:


> Hi Boogerboy, this is also my first tank with Netlea, I have no idea what's going to happen if you introduce shrimps in it before NH3 is gone. My take is, if I don't add shrimps in it, no shrimp will die in it ;-)


NH3 is gone, It only once spiked to 2ppm when i dosed some. Otherwise hasn't gone over 0.25ppm.



randy said:


> - I did a few things for this tank and nothing worked: use BA bio support (or whatever it's called, I bought a big container of it), use old filter, add a piece of raw shrimp meat to boost NH3. It's more than a month now and I only ever tested NO2 once, and I do the test probably 3 times a week.


Never got a reading for NO2-, I test twice a week. Likely that the tank won't cycle at all with the plant load it's got. It also has no bioload now but I'm looking at no more than 25 tiny fish in a 50 gal, I think the plants will snort up any NH3 before it gets to the filter in the required amounts.



randy said:


> - I'm not sure why, even with that raw shrimp meat in the tank, I can't get NH3 over 1ppm. Without the raw shrimp meat, it's around 0.5ppm. In my akadama tank, with raw shrimp meat I got NH3 up to like 2ppm. You don't want it too much such as over 4 or 5ppm because that actually kills the nitrifying bacteria.


You can have some of my ammonia if you like. It's 4% and it's pure (no other additives) so you can find the exact amounts for your tank using a calculator. I have 900ml and i extrapolated it takes less than 30ml to get the whole 50 gallons at 5ppm. I was planning on using it as a cleaner anyhow 



randy said:


> - I'm tempted to add some low grade CRS in the tank and see what happens. But since what I want to keep in this tank aren't ready yet, I have the time to be patient. I still have a new bag of Netlea and I'm debating if I should use it in the new tanks I'm setting up (yes, three more tanks of 85+ gallons of water.)


Wow that sounds like an ordeal. This is my first tank with aqua soil. Usually I just used some peat moss covered in inert gravel. The plants are loving it  I hear it helps cycle tanks too by leaching ammonia, though i've never personally observed this.



randy said:


> - Keeping shrimp in acidic water does have the problem of calcium loss (calcium "melts" in low PH, put a sea shell in vinegar and you'll see what I mean). But I believe most people keep bee shrimps (CRS, CBS, Taiwan Bees) in acidic water and the more fragile ones the lower PH, why? Because they live better. The real reason? My take is that due to repeatedly interbreed, these shrimps are lack/short of some kind of enzyme, to compensate that, lower PH either make that enzyme more active, or make shrimps survive without. So it's a trade off. Since most people get better result this way, I follow it. Mind you though, in Europe bee shrimps are kept in high GH and PH and they breed just fine, it's not without a long long long acclimating process though.


Makes sense, I only just found out two days ago how these species are sensitive because of inbreeding not because they're naturally delicate or anything. Sort of takes them down a peg in my eyes. Although as majestic looking as an SS CRS is I guess I don't really mind if he's retarded.



randy said:


> - My suggestion to you -- be patient if you can. It's the hardest thing in shrimping. I have heard people who introduce shrimp too early before system cycled/stablized end up having either dying shrimps or growing/breeding issues. Of course, it also depends on the type of shrimp and your luck. In the PFR tank of mine, I introduced 1 male + 10 female PFR 2 days after the tank was filled (with an established HOB filter), and about a month after, I have probably 50 baby shrimps in this 6.5G tank, no adult death, and at least half of the females are berried on any given day.


Definitely with you on the patient thing, this is not a hobby for impatience. I'd rather let the plants fill in first. The 1 RCS I have in there actually came latched on to a plant, and I didn't notice until a few days ago. How he survived this whole ordeal I'll never know, but it's a testament to how clean the plants are keeping! I've never had (or even had an interest in) shrimp before. Definitely looking into it now though


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## getochkn (Jul 10, 2011)

My Netlea (planted version) took about 1.5-2 months to stop leeching ammonia and another few months before any breeding went on with the crystals I put in. Now that it's 8 months old, it's rocking though. pH is about 5.8 and just sold off 100+ babies/juvi's from the tank. At a low pH, it does take a while for the filter to establish as bacteria doesn't like a low pH. Being patient is hard in this hobby, I just setup a tank to move my golden/snow whites over to last night with some ADA soil and I know that's going to take a while to be ready and it's already killing me. lol.


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## Boogerboy (Sep 23, 2008)

getochkn said:


> My Netlea (planted version) took about 1.5-2 months to stop leeching ammonia and another few months before any breeding went on with the crystals I put in. Now that it's 8 months old, it's rocking though. pH is about 5.8 and just sold off 100+ babies/juvi's from the tank. At a low pH, it does take a while for the filter to establish as bacteria doesn't like a low pH. Being patient is hard in this hobby, I just setup a tank to move my golden/snow whites over to last night with some ADA soil and I know that's going to take a while to be ready and it's already killing me. lol.


Will the tank cycle at all though? I have heard before that planted tanks have considerably smaller BB cultures because the bacteria doesn't get as much sustenance competing with plants. If the ammonia level never goes up then I'll never see any NO2- and it'll probably stay like that. I do get nitrates, but i'm assuming this isnt a tell-tale sign of a cycle going on. I'm assuming the 10ppm since the tank has been set up has more to do with decaying plant matter and snail poop.

Also, like you said pH is a factor. Mine is a little over 6 while Nitrobacter's optimum range is over 7.3. So slow growth due to no sustenance will be further impeded by acidity. I am patient but I'm not waiting for months and months to stock the tank, so provided the levels stay at nil for a fortnight more, I'll gradually start stocking


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## getochkn (Jul 10, 2011)

Boogerboy said:


> Will the tank cycle at all though? I have heard before that planted tanks have considerably smaller BB cultures because the bacteria doesn't get as much sustenance competing with plants. If the ammonia level never goes up then I'll never see any NO2- and it'll probably stay like that. I do get nitrates, but i'm assuming this isnt a tell-tale sign of a cycle going on. I'm assuming the 10ppm since the tank has been set up has more to do with decaying plant matter and snail poop.
> 
> Also, like you said pH is a factor. Mine is a little over 6 while Nitrobacter's optimum range is over 7.3. So slow growth due to no sustenance will be further impeded by acidity. I am patient but I'm not waiting for months and months to stock the tank, so provided the levels stay at nil for a fortnight more, I'll gradually start stocking


Snail poop and decaying plants don't go into straight nitrate though. If there is nitrate, it has to go through the cycle from ammonia->nitrite->nitrate. They can live in a lower pH water, just not as effective. I have a 20gal tank with a Eheim Pro 2 2026 filter on it, so waaaay overkill which allows some bacteria to grow and live whether it wants to or not. lol.


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

Hi Boogerboy, if your netlea isn't leaching NH3 anymore, have you tried introducing some in (since you have the liquid version) and see if you get NO2 reading after 12/24 hours? I'm really curious how this substrate is supposed to work.

I set this one up for Taiwan Bees so I just need to wait a bit before I get some, but in fact, due to some possible error, I might have one in my other tank already.


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## Boogerboy (Sep 23, 2008)

getochkn said:


> Snail poop and decaying plants don't go into straight nitrate though. If there is nitrate, it has to go through the cycle from ammonia->nitrite->nitrate. They can live in a lower pH water, just not as effective. I have a 20gal tank with a Eheim Pro 2 2026 filter on it, so waaaay overkill which allows some bacteria to grow and live whether it wants to or not. lol.


So you're saying the presence of nitrates in the aquarium is an indicator of the nitrogen cycle in effect? Goes to say, then, that if my NH3, NO2- are at 0 and NO3- is at 10 that the tank is cycled?? But it's only been 3 weeks 

The BA Bio-Support product did tout a 3-week plan for new tanks though, maybe by some inexplicable surprise it actually works.



randy said:


> Hi Boogerboy, if your netlea isn't leaching NH3 anymore, have you tried introducing some in (since you have the liquid version) and see if you get NO2 reading after 12/24 hours? I'm really curious how this substrate is supposed to work.
> 
> I set this one up for Taiwan Bees so I just need to wait a bit before I get some, but in fact, due to some possible error, I might have one in my other tank already.


I was under the impression that one needs sustained dosing of NH3 for several days to get an NO2- reading.

As I mentioned I have dosed NH3 once, gotten to 2ppm and then left it. I didn't add any more, as I didn't know how well nitrate spikes might do a newly established high tech tank (helloooo algae farm). I know this can be counterbalanced with frequent water changes, but I didn't want to interfere with the EI schedule, and besides the tank could use some time for the plants to fill in before I got fish. So I stopped. The level dropped back to 0.25 in 24 hours and NO2- was still at 0.

Now that I have the an RCS in there I'm definitely not gonna drown the poor fella in NH3 and expose him to NO2-. I'll just be keeping an eye on parameters and continuing my regime.

Just saying that in my experience, either the Netlea has not leached any substantial amount of ammonia (23L of the stuff in my 50 gal giving a 0.25 reading is negligible). Perhaps it's just the plants eating it up. Perhaps it's actually NH4 and my test kit doesn't read that. I don't know.


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## getochkn (Jul 10, 2011)

What netlea did you get? My planted netlea version leached like a solid 4ppm for 6 weeks. lol. I did get the seachem total/free ammonia kit, and found that it was actually 4ppm ammonium, either converted by the low pH, converted the purigen or because the soil actual hold ammonium instead of ammonia. My holding tank had crashed hard, so I took a chance and moved my shrimp into it with it at 4ppm of of ammonium and everyone made it but I don't recommend it. If it was a pH issue, as soon as you do a big WC and the pH spikes up, the ammonium would go back to ammonia and become toxic. It was either risk it with the tank though or keep them in the holding tank with 2 deaths a day and no sign of why. Lost some nice crystals so I risked it but I don't advocate people do it, just was my case and I might have gotten lucky.


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## Boogerboy (Sep 23, 2008)

getochkn said:


> What netlea did you get? My planted netlea version leached like a solid 4ppm for 6 weeks. lol. I did get the seachem total/free ammonia kit, and found that it was actually 4ppm ammonium, either converted by the low pH, converted the purigen or because the soil actual hold ammonium instead of ammonia. My holding tank had crashed hard, so I took a chance and moved my shrimp into it with it at 4ppm of of ammonium and everyone made it but I don't recommend it. If it was a pH issue, as soon as you do a big WC and the pH spikes up, the ammonium would go back to ammonia and become toxic. It was either risk it with the tank though or keep them in the holding tank with 2 deaths a day and no sign of why. Lost some nice crystals so I risked it but I don't advocate people do it, just was my case and I might have gotten lucky.


Ordinary Netlea? I don't know haha. I put a thin layer of powder soil from AI on the foreground for my HC. It wasn't Netlea but the rest was. The ratio is pretty much 20:3 Netlea:MysteryProduct though so if it were leaching ammonia I'd still see it.

Also, I'm pretty sure NH4 would still register as NH3 on my test kit, so I'd still get a positive reading if my low pH was converting it to NH4.

I don't plan on putting in any fauna for a little longer though as I'm still planting and adjusting things. Honestly my only guess is that the plants have taken it upon themselves. They're growing at an explosive rate, I'm already trimming every few days. All in all 25 plant pots all containing bacteria from a long established tank. If it snuck a shrimp on there, there's a possibility I guess that it carried enough bacteria to take care of the traces of Ammonia not gobbled up by the plants?

Whatever it is I'm not planning on adding any critters immediately; just hoping that if an explanation is to present itself, that it does so within the next 2 weeks!


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