# Toronto's Water hardness



## XbrandonX (Nov 22, 2007)

Hey just out of curiosity, and generally speaking, hows Toronto's water hardness? Is our water more on the soft side, hard side, middle??

I'm in etobicoke, not sure if that impacts anything. 

I've never paid any attention to my water hardness and don't have any tests for that.


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## Katalyst (Jul 29, 2007)

I'm in North York and my water is liquid rock. Meaning its very hard.


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

I have to drill my water out some times


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## XbrandonX (Nov 22, 2007)

So do you guys soften it in any way?

and newby question: How?


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

RO water is the most effective long term solution. Some also use alder pine cones to soften your water. Probably cheaper if you're dealing with smaller volumes.


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

Yep. Toronto water is liquid rock.

My parents installed a sodium cation exchange water softener, but since it adds sodium cations to the water, I have to bypass it everytime I change the water. I always hound them to get potassium chloride salt, but it's more expensive, and so, they never do.


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## Katalyst (Jul 29, 2007)

ameekplec. said:


> RO water is the most effective long term solution. Some also use alder pine cones to soften your water. Probably cheaper if you're dealing with smaller volumes.


R/O & Alder cones. Just like the Chief said.

(I've upgraded you from the curer of callamanus to Chief lol.)


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## Katalyst (Jul 29, 2007)

Darkblade48 said:


> Yep. Toronto water is liquid rock.
> 
> My parents installed a sodium cation exchange water softener, but since it adds sodium cations to the water, I have to bypass it everytime I change the water. I always hound them to get potassium chloride salt, but it's more expensive, and so, they never do.


My parents when they visit, find it amusing the fish have better water quality in the basement; then my own drinking water upstairs.


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Haha, yeah, my fish get RO/DI treated water - $200 for the RO/DI unit.

We drink water from a Brita filter - $20.

Ha! Chief. I'm being mastered by my thesis now


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## Katalyst (Jul 29, 2007)

ameekplec. said:


> Haha, yeah, my fish get RO/DI treated water - $200 for the RO/DI unit.
> 
> We drink water from a Brita filter - $20.
> 
> Ha! Chief. I'm being mastered by my thesis now


I'm not looking forward to that, but I'll be doing the very same thing soon if this visa doesn't go through sooner then later. I'm bored out of my skull!


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## XbrandonX (Nov 22, 2007)

hmm.. So for my 180G with my Geos in it, I could put Alder Cones in the sump until I decide to get an RO?

(The Geos are the reason I'm wondering about water softness.. In the interest of them thriving in their habitat)


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## Cory (May 2, 2008)

Water in the Vaughan area is also very.. very hard. I moved back here and for the first time had to use my "high PH, PH test" bottle. There are a variety of ways to lower your PH, the above mentioned ways are good. You can also use peat in the filter (or as part of your substrate if you want to go the planted route) and driftwood will have a PH lowering effect as well. Of course, you can also buy water softener pillows or one of the products that claims to neutralize ph no matter what your PH is (though I cannot speak to the efficacy of those treatments having never used them). 

At any rate, most fish in the hobby are tolerant of a wide range of PHs and you don't need to worry much about it unless you're aiming to breed the fish.


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## Hitch (Apr 26, 2009)

But the hardness is still an issue for some fish (and for breeding purposes). So how do you use/where do you get alder cones?


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## Cory (May 2, 2008)

Not sure on the cones, but peat moss is available at any nursery or hardware store usually and works just as well.


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## Hitch (Apr 26, 2009)

I know peat decreases pH, but doesnt have much affect on hardness does it?


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## Cory (May 2, 2008)

Yes, Peat moss lowers GH as well as PH. I couldn't explain the chemistry but I know it works that way. From what I understand also, most things that affect ph affect gh as well in some way. It is also very difficult to have soft water with a high ph or vice versa, again Im not a chemist so I couldn't explain I just know that's how it goes .

In reality though, it is more important to a fish's health to maintain a STABLE ph and GH than it is to have the specific conditions of the water they came from. Unless you are having troubles I never recommend anyone mess around with either PH or GH . I kept Zebra plecos just fine in Toronto's hard high PH water and did very little except put two small pieces of driftwood in the tank.


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## Hitch (Apr 26, 2009)

Makes sense.


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## BillD (Jun 5, 2006)

I'm curious as to why Toronto's Lake Ontario water would be very hard, when mine would be only medium hard, in Whitby. The pH out of the tap is around 7.4 which usually means water that isn't terribly hard. As well, I know lots of people who have bred many varieties of fish from all sorts of varied biotopes in this tap water.


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Don't use water softening pillows - most commercial products just replace the Ca with Na, which can be very hard on the fish.


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## Tropicana (Feb 15, 2009)

The water here in Barrie is pretty hard sits around 8.0-8.2. I used my low and high ph test and both were at the 8.0 area. I tried to lower the ph but with no luck and still i am doing fine breeding my German Blue Rams. Of course my D.Compressiceps love it lol.


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## Cory_Dad (Apr 18, 2008)

If you want a guaranteed method of reducing pH then use an RO filter. Trouble is once you start messing with the pH you're pretty much stuck with the time and effort of doing it. That's why I stopped.

Cheers.


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