# A Classic Problem: Cloudy Water



## Sagittarius-Aquarius (Oct 30, 2009)

Hello everyone.

I'm having an issue with my 5.5 gallon tank, again. It used to house a different betta. This one started off very well. The tank used to get a lot of sunlight during the day, buy I have since blocked off direct sunlight. Lesson learned. 

The first time I had a betta in this tank, he was rather old. On top of this, the water went very cloudy within a month of putting him in. Assuming it was a bacterial bloom, I continued with my water changes, doing 30% 2-3 times a week (since his tank is unfiltered). For anyone wondering, yes I stirred up the substrated and used a siphon to vaccuum the water and filth from gravel level. 

Despite my efforts, the cloudiness worsened and eventually I couldn't see the betta. Still believe it was a bacterial bloom, I continued with water changes, but lessened the frequency. I changed 30% of the water twice a week now, every other week doing 3 changes.

Despite this, the old betta succumbed and died. I'm not sure if it's related to the bloom or not, he just stopped swimming one day, laying in the substrate.

I moved my new fish into the 5.5 gallon after some very thorough soapless cleaning, along with disposing of the old bettas effects and even going as far as using a different heater for a while. No dice, it's been 4 weeks and the water is becoming cloudy again. What could be the issue here?

PS- I feel like I should tell everyone that this betta is very stressed out by having the water disturbed. I tried a sponge filter, but he just sank to the bottom and stayed there. I tried a weak little under gravel filter, or even just some aeration with a tiny air stone, but he still stressed and sank to the bottom. His bubble nest used to be about an inch high and have a 2 inch diameter, but now there are just a few scattered bubbles here and there. I want my little guy to be happy again. He's still active, but no nest. 

So overall, I have a few questions. 

1) What is making the water cloudy? Parameters are not bad at all. No spike in ammonia or anything like it.

2) Is there any form of filtration that will not disturb the water very much? I'm thinking more along the lines of biological filtration.

If a need arises, I can provide a picture of the tank.


Thanks!


----------



## Fish_Man (Apr 9, 2010)

that seems interested, I would like to know what it could be if not a bacterial bloom.

sponge filter or UGF would be best with little water current IMO.

I have a HOB for my betta and he doesn't mind it at all but I have him in a 10 gallon so there might be areas with less current


----------



## Sagittarius-Aquarius (Oct 30, 2009)

I may just try the smallest sponge filter I can find. I figured they would be best for current. He may just have to, well, get used to it. 

I'm also wondering about the amount of water changes. Too many, too few?


----------



## BillD (Jun 5, 2006)

I change the water on my bettas, every other day, 80%.


----------



## Sagittarius-Aquarius (Oct 30, 2009)

I think that would cause a bit too much temperature and parameter fluctuation in my tank. I'll change more water though, hopefully that will make it go away.


----------



## bae (May 11, 2007)

If it's a bacterial bloom, the bacteria have to be eating something. Are you sure you aren't overfeeding? A single adult male betta doesn't need much food. Uneaten food will rot and cause bacteria to flourish. Try feeding no more than he can eat in 3-5 minutes once a day, or put the food in one flake or pellet at a time and stop when he doesn't immediately eat it.


----------



## Sagittarius-Aquarius (Oct 30, 2009)

I used to overfeed with my old fish, but with this guy I hand feed him individual pellets, flakes, and bloodworms with tweezers. He tends to spit things up, so I wait a while and scoop anything up with the net.


----------



## BettaBeats (Jan 14, 2010)

fish poop breaking down and not having a filter or good bacteria to break it down, plus excess nitrates resulting in algae bloom? was it white or green cloud? 

Although it matters if you overfeed, if you're not filtering the water or changing the water then wastes build up. Think of you taking a constant bath in your own filth, with the same water that just went down the drain.

People think betta's are hearty and keep them in bowls. But a betta in a 10 gal shows amazing fin displays and personality and is quite curious. Filter the water. Give him more than a gallon. 

If not, bigger water changes.. ?


----------



## BettaBeats (Jan 14, 2010)

here's an added thought:

Add a plant to help filter the water. The plant will eat the excess (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate) and give the fish some fun to swim around.

a crypt or anubias might to well.


----------



## Sagittarius-Aquarius (Oct 30, 2009)

@ BettaBeats: He has 5.5 gallons, not 1 gallon. I change his water every other day, and make sure I pick up all debris that is visible. I stir up the gravel, I'm not a negligent owner. The reason he doesn't have a filter is because he stresses out. Imagine living in silence, then having a loud piece of machinery dropped into your home, that creates huge current. I tried one for a couple of days, and he dropped into the corner of his tank and became listless the entire time. He perked up immediately when it was removed. (I tried a sponge filter suitable for 10 gallons and even just an undergravel filter, both made him display "hibernating" behaviour.)

I was thinking about the plant, but I'm lacking a hood or a steady light source. I'm on the market for a hood, but for now I'm using a lamp. I'd really like a plant, but I tried duck weed, just for cover and such, and it just ended up dying and adding to the waste.


Also, for anyone wondering, I have no space for a 10 gallon right now. Upgrading isn't really an option, besides, I think he's good where he is. He has tons of room to swim, and aqadvisor puts stocking at 80%.


----------



## Sagittarius-Aquarius (Oct 30, 2009)

I'd like to let anyone here that gave me advice know that I'm pretty sure it was just a bloom, as the water is now much clearer. I removed the light for a couple of days and did one 80% change, followed by 25% every other day. I can now see my little fish. Still no nest, but I think that'll happen once he sees the light of day again!

Thanks for your help, if it gets worse, I'll post again.

The issue with the filter still remains though!


----------



## thename123 (Dec 13, 2009)

Sagittarius-Aquarius said:


> I'd like to let anyone here that gave me advice know that I'm pretty sure it was just a bloom, as the water is now much clearer. I removed the light for a couple of days and did one 80% change, followed by 25% every other day. I can now see my little fish. Still no nest, but I think that'll happen once he sees the light of day again!
> 
> Thanks for your help, if it gets worse, I'll post again.
> 
> The issue with the filter still remains though!


Thats good  If it was a bacteria bloom, wht do you suppose was the excess nutrient?


----------



## bae (May 11, 2007)

I don't think you need a filter for a single betta in a 5 gallon tank. Bettas don't like current, and long finned ones can have quite a struggle in turbulent water. Some plants would be helpful for water quality, however, even a wad of java moss.

If you don't have rooted plants, you don't need much substrate -- just enough to cover the bottom, really. For light, you could use a desk lamp or reading lamp or similar with a 13 watt CFL. You should be able to grow most low to middle light plants this way.

Do you have a heater in the tank? Bettas prefer fairly high temperatures and get sluggish if they are cool.


----------



## Sagittarius-Aquarius (Oct 30, 2009)

I do indeed have a heater. I've owned enough bettas to learn that a heater is, basically, mandatory. I've had it with the little guys getting stressed out and sluggish.

As for the excess nutrient, his tank has a mesh top. I'm trying to find a hood. I think that dust was in the water, and that is how the bacteria were feeding. I've covered the mesh lid with a dish towel, and the water clarity has improved significantly.

As for plants, I like the idea of java moss. I'm worried about another algal bloom, as I've had problems with those in the past. I'll do some reading. Thanks everyone.


----------



## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

thename123 said:


> Thats good  If it was a bacteria bloom, wht do you suppose was the excess nutrient?


That isn't what causes bacterial blooms. You can have all the nutrients you want. A bacterial bloom is caused by really uneven bioload input to the biofilter, or by adding a huge bioload at once. You can get an algae bloom in some conditions with excess nutrients.


----------



## bae (May 11, 2007)

Sagittarius-Aquarius said:


> I do indeed have a heater. I've owned enough bettas to learn that a heater is, basically, mandatory. I've had it with the little guys getting stressed out and sluggish.


Good. It's hard to tell how knowledgable a person is from a few posts and you didn't mention a heater. Please don't be offended!



> As for the excess nutrient, his tank has a mesh top. I'm trying to find a hood. I think that dust was in the water, and that is how the bacteria were feeding. I've covered the mesh lid with a dish towel, and the water clarity has improved significantly.
> 
> As for plants, I like the idea of java moss. I'm worried about another algal bloom, as I've had problems with those in the past. I'll do some reading. Thanks everyone.


There are three common causes for cloudy water: One is a bacterial bloom caused by something rotting; a dead fish, uneaten food, etc. Another is fine sediment, like clay particles from substrate. The third is the earlier stages of green water, that may not look green yet to the eye.

Bacteria will die off when they have no more food, sediment will eventually settle or be caught in the filter, especially as microorganisms produce materials that help coagulate them, and green water will clear when the algae run out of nutrients (e.g. by competition with plants) or light.

If your cloudiness resolved when you cut back on light, it may have been an algae bloom -- green water that didn't look very green yet. The best way to control algae is to out-compete it with plants. I can give you some java moss and some floating plants. PM me if you're interested.

Btw, if you don't want to buy a 'real' hood, just get a piece of glass of suitable size, and put your light on that. Make it bigger than the top, to make it easier to lift. Be sure to smoothe the edges -- black wet/dry sandpaper is good, or if you buy the glass, the people at the store can smoothe it for you. Among other things, it will keep the air above the water warm and humid, which is especially good in winter when house air is very dry.


----------



## Philip.Chan.92 (Apr 25, 2010)

My tank has been cloudy because of my driftwood, atleast I hope that's why. It makes the tank look a lot more natural. Pictures will be posted soon of my new setup.


----------



## Sagittarius-Aquarius (Oct 30, 2009)

I had a problem with green water before, but I don't know. There wasn't a certain "green" stage this time, though it did persist for a while. I'll try for the glass piece although I may have troubles finding it. 

Also, don't worry, I wasn't offended. I have just taken a lot of my time learning the mistakes betta owners make, as in those uneducated on the natural conditions of the fish. 

Depending on location and price, I'd be interested in some plants.  Thanks.


----------



## BettaBeats (Jan 14, 2010)

Sagittarius-Aquarius said:


> I had a problem with green water before, but I don't know. There wasn't a certain "green" stage this time, though it did persist for a while. I'll try for the glass piece although I may have troubles finding it.
> 
> Also, don't worry, I wasn't offended. I have just taken a lot of my time learning the mistakes betta owners make, as in those uneducated on the natural conditions of the fish.
> 
> Depending on location and price, I'd be interested in some plants.  Thanks.


low light plants would suit a betta very well, it would also purify the water from his waste, etc.

I recently had a green algae bloom in the water, for week! turns out my hygrophilia rose was dropping leaves that were breaking down, plus i wasn't vacuuming the sand as well as I had thought.


----------

