# DIY Lights



## kiloman (Dec 22, 2009)

OK, So I have Deceided to go for DIY lights for a few Freshwater Planted Tanks that I am starting in the new Year, 46 Gal,25 Gal and 10 Gal

I have a a few question and have done months of research on it and still have not found the right kind of answers, 

Also I have noticed that most of the DIY LED are Saltwater People and not Freshwater, also everyone likes to use CREE LEDs , but my purposeis strictly freshwater ,CREEs are super expensive, and I think the whole idea of DIY is biggest bang for the buck , and ultimately keeping cost of hobbying down lowest.

I Do not believe in Longivity of LEDs, as I am sure 3-5 yrs down the line, the new LEDs will be mind blowing and we have to throw away the $15 CREEs as we are doing incandescent bulbs today

So my project is for next 3 yrs, running 12 hrs/day , so abt 15000 hrs to a max of 20000hrs,

questions 
1. Has any one used Cold cathode lights?? any one faced any problems??


2. Christmas LED lights? they are outdoor, so can withstand a bit of water, why not use in the hood??

Some may be on sale right now christmas being so close.

3.All LEDs or all lights for that matter are not 6500K, can anyone mixed with 10 blues with 10 whites in 4000- 5000K( soft white/warm white) range to make up fo the true 6500K?? coz true 6500K are usually more expensive than 3000-5500K range


4.Whats the main diffrence between, ebay-chinese LEDs and the expensive ones,??

Are they diffrent even if u heat sink them well,- my research tells me that the complaints with the former ones are that they go dim very soon as they are not heat sinked well enough-LEDs are good if the heat disssipation is ok,the physics behind LEDs remain the same, or do diffrent manufacturer use diffrent material for the p-n junction?? and thats what the longivity comes from 


5.Has anyone tried using Red lights for plant growth? the plants need red too,may be 10% red 30% blue and rest in white?? is there a correct combination or trying in dark?

6.Has anyone being successful in growing any flowers in their plants? a living being will reproduce only when its satisfied in most ways, so flower will prove that conditions are optimum-may be a general question but would like to know the lighting done too

7.LEDs will not go by watts/gallon rule, whats high, medium light for LEDs?? what has the LED folks have in their tanks??

8. They Have Rope Lights which are completely water proof, cant we use them to go inside the tank to increase light intensity?PAR values for the high light plants?


Comments / answers and help is appriciated

Thnx for Looking


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## arc (Mar 11, 2010)

http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html

All you need to know about lighting technologies. I can't answer all you questions but some of the LED answers are in the article.

*Note that the reason most people use Cree/expensive LEDs is that they can produce a higher lumens/watt ratio(80 to 100+) and good K values while the low output LED can only get about 20 lumens/watt or less.

Most Christmas lights and retail led lights are great for moonlights but since they are low output LEDs, you're going to have to string A LOT of them together to get any plant growth.


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## gucci17 (Oct 11, 2007)

I'll give this a stab too...I am by no means a lighting expert.

High power LEDs are indeed pricey but not as high as you mentioned. $15 is over exaggerating. Cree XP-G's can be found in the $5 range and even including optics. 

DIY LEDs are infact, a huge saving compared to purchasing a retail LED unit or even T5 and MH fixtures. Yes, the upfront costs are large but you are not seeing it from a reefer's perspective. T5 and MH bulbs need to be replaced typically 6 months to a year. The replacement costs of these bulbs add up very quickly not to mention the amount of electricty T5HO and MH fixtures use. For a planted tank, you are not going to be receiving the same type of money savings if you choose to go the LED route.

Who knows, maybe you're right about it not being around but some people take the risk right? Just like blue ray and hd dvd? It's always going to be this way with technology. Regardless, there are those who claim to have great growth coral/plant wise with high power LEDs in the past few years. 

What is it that made you believe that LEDs are not here to stay? 

I don't know what you are inferring to about mixing different Kelvin rating bulbs or LEDs. What is wrong with buying a 6500K bulb? A few years ago, my old planted tank used 48" T5HO bulbs that I bought from Home Depot and Rona for $4/ea. There were 6500K or 6700K, somewhere around there. That is pretty cheap already no? 

Christmas lights and rope LEDs are low power. They can't be compared to high power LEDs. That's apples to oranges....
I think it's a fire hazard as they are not built to withstand a constant wet and humid environment.

The watts/gallon rule is really outdated and should not even be recognized as a form of measurement on lighting a tank. 

I don't know the difference between ebay-chinese leds or expensive ones. Quality control? I'd like to think also the quality of parts but these days, even name brand companies can have their products manufactured in China. I generally pay for name brand products depending on a variety of things. Track record of the company, end user support, reviews and price.

Are you planning on a hi-tech or low-tech planted tank? DIY is probably best left for a low-tech system. If you're going hi-tech, T5HO has been proven to do well in planted tanks. I've had my plants flower with T5HO, that's with the addition of co2 and ferts though.

GL


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## kiloman (Dec 22, 2009)

I meant -whats High tech and cutting edge today may be forgotton in 6 mnths, dont think I said LEDs are not here to stay,

I meant a few Lights in lets say 4100 K and a few in 10000K range, or lets say mix diffrent K rating bulbs/LEDs, guessing sunlight comes in diffrent spectrum,

Good Point there, but they are meant for outside in the snow??

Again I must say that whats high power cutting edge today will be overrun with higher power LEDs in 6months time, so that way i think i will say that is it worth investingsay $5 on each LED compared to say$2 ??

I dont know yet, i have access to co2 tanks, and dont think fertiliser is a too expensive issue,so depending on light etc i may or may not go high tech, although in the past with a fairly big mixture or yest/sugar i have descent growth of plants too,

GL[/QUOTE]

any hoo thnx for your reply, home to hear some more brain storm


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## arc (Mar 11, 2010)

From my understanding, anything in the 4000-10000k range will provide decent PAR values to grow plants. Red and Blue lights provide almost nothing to plant growths though, reason why Actinic bulbs aren't use in freshwater much.

6500k is a preference as it's a nice clear crisp daylight colour. If you want a bit of yellow or blueish tint than you can mix them. Reefers like the 10K as it makes coral colours pop out more.

5 dollars for a Cree LED XP-G/E is a great price and would be considered the mainstream/value market price. Buy a few of these and see your expenses go up.

It's kinda like buying a computer....6 months from now there will always be something better. You are paying for the ability to use it now, if you can wait then you can save some but lose usage time.


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## rrobbiiee (Dec 4, 2010)

kiloman said:


> ...
> Again I must say that whats high power cutting edge today will be overrun with higher power LEDs in 6months time, so that way i think i will say that is it worth investingsay $5 on each LED compared to say$2 ??
> ....


I used to think this way too about computers, as a result I was using a 486 for almost 10 years as I kept waiting until the price dropped for the Pentium's, but then newer and newer Pentium's kept coming out! In the end I jumped to a Pentium 4, but wow I never played that waiting game again. Now I upgrade every two years 

The way I see it, spend $2 on a LED and it will last you, let's say a year before you realize you need more light. Spend $5 on a LED and, again hypothetically, let's say it lasts you 3 years before the technology has advanced enough that you think it's time to upgrade. Now in the future the $5 LED that you buy now will only cost $2 but then it will be outdated so you'll have to buy the next $5 LED again and then the vicious cycle continues 

^^I hope that isn't too confusing


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## kiloman (Dec 22, 2009)

Thnx for all replies, I think Lighting will settle to a mmore stable rate of progression vs computers/ technology- as technology is a forced upgrading by manufacturers,but lighting are more towards basic needs 

Any way, how about cold cathode tubes? any one tried that around here??

or anyone have 50 X leds as their freshwater lighting?

I am planning to go with about 50 leds accross a 36"X12" area with abt 80-110 lm for each led @6500K range- wondering anyone has any other light colours

they say blue is needed for vegetative growth and red/orange in the flowering stages

BTW gucci -what plants did flower at ur tank? cant seem to find a good flowering underwater plant, also whats ur source for $5 crees

I will probably be the first person to go for freshwater tanks with leds

Cheers all


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## gucci17 (Oct 11, 2007)

Sorry, I'm a little rusty on the plant names lol...it's been awhile.

From what I can remember, one was little whtie flowers that would float on the surface that I have a neat picture of at home. I think it was a dwarf sag. Another one was Pogostamon I believe. They would have these purple stems that came out of the water and flowered. There's one more but I can't remember. It really gives you a sense of accomplishment when your plants actually flower.

Yeah, definitely give it a shot on a planted tank. Check out plantedtank.net for some LED colour ideas. I would imagine it would be a mix of cool whites, neutral whites and possible a few warm whites.

I thought cold cathodes are neon sign lighting? I don't think it would be appropriate for this application.

I participated in a group buy out in BC - http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=70376

There will be another one in January I believe.

If you look at Oupulino's thread, you can get away with 36 LEDs like he has. http://gtaaquaria.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19545


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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

Do a search, there are some really good DIY of LED light posted here.

1) Cold cathode is not bright enough. It's not efficient and any flourescent would have been better. The blue ones, they make nice night light though.

2) These aren't as efficient as the standar LED. One reason being that they have an inverted disperser design, this deflect the light to the side instead of going straight.

3) Most plans make use of the 6500K. The other just isn't as efficient at growing plants.

4) Probably the same, everything seems to be made in China.
Yes, heat dissipation is very important. Over heated LED fade very quickly. LED rarely burnt out like the lightbulb, their brightness fade with time. When I was in EE, I was taught that When it's at 1/2 life or 1/2 it's orginal brightness, it's consider a dead bulb. But the manufactuer will most likely say otherwise. Either way, you are facing a deminishing return with time.

5) Don't know, you will have to find this out yourself. Blue and red did very little unless you have plants that make use of blue and red light spectrum.

6) Flower ... plants aren't even supposed to flower under water. Bees don't swim well.

7) Always get the brightest LED possible. The only exception is the CREE which is a relatively new technology and it's much brighter. I'd use what ever wattage LED commercial company use.

8) I don't think those rope lights are really water proof either. I definately won't put them underwater.

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## kiloman (Dec 22, 2009)

http://cgi.ebay.ca/SMD-50W-White-Hi...870?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c592f9236

This fellow can make MH look good

if this comes under $10 i will use it


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## rrobbiiee (Dec 4, 2010)

Wow that looks intense. I wonder what LED's are being used in that array...


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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

kiloman said:


> http://cgi.ebay.ca/SMD-50W-White-Hi...870?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c592f9236
> 
> This fellow can make MH look good
> 
> if this comes under $10 i will use it


Wow, the spec is impressive, but running on 21 - 24V ... that's kind of heavy. You realize your car in running on a 12 V battery. Hope you realize that you're heading into the industrial concept area here. This is no longer a house hold item ...

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## rrobbiiee (Dec 4, 2010)

The link says it only needs 2.4A, that isn't too bad. Car battery's run usually 600A and beyond, now that would be an intense LED setup!


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## kiloman (Dec 22, 2009)

Thats a youtube link i found think that the 50W led

I will use a 24V step down dc supply as , i have access to those power supplies , but they are in the range of 27V,and the spec said that its 21-24V

also i dont want to misfire a $50 LED,

Any one knows how they wire up christmas led lights?? I need to find a way to use the led on AC line , like using both waves of an AC

They sure dont use transformers, and using resitors is crude as it involves loss of energy, which we are trying to avoid,

any Electrical /electronics guy in here knowing about antiparallel wiring??? directly related to LED lights, its too tidious to go back to books to learn the concept

cheers


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