# Refugium question



## rubadub (Sep 12, 2010)

originally i had planned to incorperate a refugium into my sump
however after measuring the opening i dont see a way in getting a 20gal long into my stand si i may have to settle for a 25 gallon which is 6 inches smaller in length

my question is should i just scrap the refuge in the sump and add a HOB refuge??

i know CPR has one that is approx 5 gallons which would bring my total water vol to 102 gallons

or should i still try and fit it int the sump


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

why do you need refusium? Try to find on the web purpose of it and decide if you need.

I have chaeto and two pieces of LR (I do no t need them also there) in my sump. No sand and no creatures

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## rubadub (Sep 12, 2010)

i guess for nitrate and phosphate reduction

i'm still new to this whole sw thing 
havent set anything up just trying to gather up as much info/equipment that i'd need

thus why i posted it on here 
so you guys could toss me some advice (which is greatly needed/appreciated)
i figured i'd do things right over skimping on things then finding out i'd need them down the line


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

JM2C

I do not say that you do not need it, but you already have a sump. Just trow in piece of chaeto and it will work well to reduce nitrate and phosphate.

Let's see reasons for having it. It is not my article.

"Why use Refugiums?

You may be wondering -why not just keep a separate tank? The many compelling reasons why a connected refugium is more beneficial:

With additional lighting, can be used to grow algae to harvest. Growing algae in a sump/refugium also helps absorb waste that would otherwise pollute the main tank.(chaeto will do it and you can add mangroves if you want in your sump)
Protect small organisms so that they can be self-replenishing. This works especially when you want to grow "feeder" organisms to a certain size so that they can reproduce before the entire population is eaten. Popular "feeder" organisms include feeder fish, amphipods, and copepods. For example: in a reef tank, a large enough refugium can provide a safe haven for copepods (where they do not have to worry about being eaten and can breed). When the refugium is "stirred" (i.e., when you trim the macro-algae in the refugium), copepods will enter the water stream and makes their way back into the main tank, providing a regular source of sustenance for the larger organisms. (what you are planning to feed with copepods? probably one Mandarin fish)
When used as a sump pump,(you have it) plays a crucial part of water flow for reef tanks.
Increases overall water volume of aquarium, making it more stable. For example a 60 gallon tank with a 10 gallon refugium is actually a 70 gallon system; the extra volume makes the tank water less susceptible to variances in temperature and other disturbances. (sump already increases you volume)
Separate fish that are delicate or prone to bullying (for example, seahorses) on their own. Some owners even place new fish in a refugium to help them acclimatize in a quieter environment (away from the inhabitants of the main tank). Helps fry develop in a safe habitat as they grow, while keeping them accustomed to the water/conditions of the main tank. ( do you plan to have delicate or prone to bullying fishes in your refusium? (for example, seahorses) I doubt it) "

That is why I say that piece of chaeto in your sump will be enough

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## Holidays (Apr 18, 2010)

the refugium serves as second/additional natural filtration, first being the live rock and nursery for pods. I had a 8 gal fuge (which I sold for more than asking price after splitting them up hehe) for a 15 gal tank and the whole system was exceptionally healthy no skimmer. chaeto also helps reduce algae growth if scrubbing algae is not your favorite thing to do.


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

Holidays said:


> the refugium serves as second/additional natural filtration, first being the live rock and nursery for pods. I had a 8 gal fuge (which I sold for more than asking price after splitting them up hehe) for a 15 gal tank and the whole system was exceptionally healthy no skimmer. chaeto also helps reduce algae growth if scrubbing algae is not your favorite thing to do.


It was healthy because nobody using skimmer on 15G LOL. Just change 1G of water per week and it is healthy.

I always wondering. You guys growing pods, but which fishes are eating them in your tanks 

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## Holidays (Apr 18, 2010)

I went with *Natural* filtration for my saltwater tank: Live rocks, macro algae and pods which works out great. no skimmer or plastici bio balls in sump pump


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## rubadub (Sep 12, 2010)

i would have to add a baffle into my sump to house the cheato wouldn't i??

i guess i could but then either my skimmer section or my return is going to be smaller

granted i only have 24 inches to work with 
i have been looking at the Aqua C Urchins pro tho
those have a tiny footprint and i could have a refuge section to house algae in the sump still


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

I agree, but in reality your refusium was a sump which he already has. Why he need separate refusiom?

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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

have a look on the last image on this page. This is good website for your DIYs
you do not need to work with plastic. these images are just example

http://www.melevsreef.com/acrylics/sumps/a/sump_model_a.html

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## Holidays (Apr 18, 2010)

sig said:


> It was healthy because nobody using skimmer on 15G LOL. Just change 1G of water per week and it is healthy.
> 
> I always wondering. You guys growing pods, but which fishes are eating them in your tanks


there is a skimmer for nano tank if you do some research but of course you know more than the company that create them useless things LOL. bigger tank means nothing if you know what you're doing and how to prepare the water properly - scaling the volume up or down doesn't mean shirt.


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

have a look on this one. It is little underrated for you tank, but they have a small foot print and good reviews. 
Dimensions: 175x110x445mm ( 6.8" x 4.3" x 17.5")

you can go with the bigger model for 135G

http://www.goreef.com/Bubble-Magus-NAC3-5-Cone-Protein-Skimmer.html

http://www.goreef.com/Bubble-Magus-NAC5.5-Cone-SKimmer-135G.html

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## rubadub (Sep 12, 2010)

are there any skimmers that sit outside of the sump??
cause that would work best the more i think of it


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## Holidays (Apr 18, 2010)

rubadub said:


> are there any skimmers that sit outside of the sump??
> cause that would work best the more i think of it


the water level in the lower sump usually stable so thats probaly the best placement but if you have no choice put it in the main tank


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

Holidays said:


> the water level in the lower sump usually stable so thats probaly the best placement but if you have no choice put it in the main tank


HOB skimmers are more expensive (good ones). You will have ugly bump sitting on your tank and there is always chance of the skimmer overflowing. the one point of the sump is hide ugly equipment and make tank look nice.
I suggest you extend opening of the stand. You can also rum HOB skimmer on the sump and there are skimmers that work outside of the sump, but you will need to drill sump.

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## Tim (Dec 11, 2011)

If you just want a fuge to reduce nitrates, you can also look into some other options as in my mind, the CPR HOB fuge is pretty expensive for what you get.

You could go with a 5 gallon bucket DSB.

If you want pods you can create a rubble rock pile in your tank. For this to work though I think you would have to avoid having hermit crabs as they can get into the crevices and prey on the critters.

HOB skimmers are certainly an option. I never hear bad things about the reef octopus skimmers. They can be a pain to find though.


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## rubadub (Sep 12, 2010)

i think i might just settle with that bubble magus that sig recomended and just baffle off a section for cheato

that or i'll buy some acrylic and build my own hob fuge

i mainly listed the cpr hob fuge just because of the dimensions it has
there are many alternatives 

basically i just wanted to know peoples opinions on what i should do and find out if 5 gallons as a fuge is enough for a 72 gallon tank with a 25 gallon sump
which in the end adds an additional 30 gallons to the system


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

any way first read reviews on bubble magus. I never owned one, but based on reviews and small foot print, I was planning to get one for my second system, which is never happened

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