# Breaking it down!



## meow_mix450 (Mar 22, 2006)

Hey

So what I have decided is to upgrade my 25 gallon to a bigger aquarium. The measurements are 48Lx18Wx20H(In inches). I'm not sure how big that aquarium is. Now the issue is would I need another metal halide on this aquarium? I only have 1 and I'm not so sure it's big enough to cover that size. I'm actually really low on budget and I need to help cut some cost. Here's a list of what I want for sure. 
- Carib Sea Aragamax I would like 3inchs high (Just so it matchs my other sand)
- "Live Rock" not "Base Rock"
So I'm wondering if anyone can help me find the cheapest place to get it. Also how much live rock would you guys think I need. Kase maybe you can help me out with some live rock if you got any left. Jess if I paid for gas would you be willing to drive me there to get it?

Goal
- I would like a lot of pink coraline to grow
- Get some corals going

Meow


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## Kase (Mar 22, 2006)

Hey Meow, thats a 72gal tank... pending on what you want to keep for corals I would suggest more wattage and a second bulb. I don't have any live rock to spare, but I get my LR from Reef Raft at a good price... and good looknig rock.... as for your coraline, I find that PC's produce the best growth... MH are just to intense to grow much coraline.

Cheers,
Roger


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## meow_mix450 (Mar 22, 2006)

Thanks lol I dont know how to convert my measurments to gallons. I was thinking of purchasing http://www.bigalsonline.ca/catalog/product.xml?product_id=30710;category_id=1863;pcid1=1843;pcid2=
What do you think about that? How much per pound for the LR at Reef Raft?

Meow


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## Kase (Mar 22, 2006)

that is a fancy light but not worth the money IMHO.. for that kind of money you and I should get together and hammer out a good DIY and then post pics  as for the rock at the Raft its $7/lbs and its big and light

Cheers,
Kase


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## meow_mix450 (Mar 22, 2006)

lol well i asked cause this guy on a forum site is offering 550.00 is that still not worth it haha

Meow


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## Kase (Mar 22, 2006)

not if you have to replace all the bulbs.. that alone will cost you another $350 +/-


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## chompy (Mar 24, 2006)

48"x18"x20"=121.83cmx45.69cmx50.76cm(.03937" in 1mm)
=282520.2cm cubed
=282520.2ml (1cm cubed=1ml=1g of WATER)
=282.2L
=74.54gal(US) (0.26417gal US in 1L or 0.21997gal IMP in 1L)

I have to do these calculations alot in hydrolics class. I don't think the labeled gal amount is always right on tanks, I would say they are +- 5 gal.


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## Ciddian (Mar 15, 2006)

Yes...replacing the bulbs is a pain in the arse....Mine is still in the closet.. LOL

I can definatly take you Meows, no worries there ^^ Then i can oogal Kases corals..


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## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

Have you thought of using T-5HO lights? Though new in the NA market, they have been using them in Eurpoe for years with great success. One can even keep SPS. For that size, you will need at least a 4 light for softies and most LPS. If wish to keep SPS, a 6 or 8 light fixture will be needed.

If you are a DIY'er, reflector design is very important to take advantage of T-5HO's full potential. Reflector "brands" to look for are IceCap and Tek. Bulbs to look for are URI (soon to be released), ATI (Geissmann) and ARC.

HTH in your decision.


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## meow_mix450 (Mar 22, 2006)

Any examples you can show me. Me and Ciddian looked into T-5's but Im not excatly sure how many I would need for my 72 gallon. I also planned on keeping sponges......So I don't they will be strong enough. How about a metal halide and 2 T-5? or 2 metal halide, lol Im sooooo pushing my budget

Meow


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## Ciddian (Mar 15, 2006)

LoL Oohh Jay, remeber he's saying High Output. So that should make it alright for Sponges?

I know big als sells a HO ballast kit....Dont ask me how to do it though..


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## meow_mix450 (Mar 22, 2006)

lol oo high output then that would be a no cause there only 16Ws a bulb lol 

Meow


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## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

Sponges do not require bright lighting. Sponges from the _Cateriospongia_ family do have a small degree of photosynthetic activity but still do not require high intensity lighting. What's more important is "availablility" of proper food particle size and concentration. Active sand stirrers and good water flow in the aquarium can "kick up" enough "stuff" to feed them but depending on skimming activity and sponge size, generally you have to supplement with phytoplankton (phyto).

HTH


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## meow_mix450 (Mar 22, 2006)

Wow maybe I should wait until Im more experienced with other types of corals. I don't know if I could do another DIY lights, my last experience was pretty interesting lol. Took me a good month before I had it properly working. I think Im just going to go with my one metal halide and purchase a metal halide pendent. 

Meow


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## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

To be totally honest, it's not as hard as one perceives SW to be. It's just that there is so much info, methods, tricks and products to create an awesome looking SW set-up. 

Before you start puchasing anything, what is your vision of the 75gal SW? What would you like to keep...corals...inverts...fish...etc. There is an order of "building" per se where, IMHO, patience and planning is very critical. It's going to be an investment for sure and it would be very disheartening if it "goes to crap".

So...what's your plan ?


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## meow_mix450 (Mar 22, 2006)

lol I have a vision alright haha. No I see myself having lots of corals, some inverts and fish. Theres already a room set for the 72 gallon aquarium. 
Corals
- Wide range of polyps
- Certain Brains 
- Xenia
- Torch 
- Mushrooms
Inverts
- Shrimp
- Hermit Crabs
Fish
- Black Clown Fish
- Yellow Tang
- Few Cardinals 
Live rocks
- 50 pounds
Sand
- 80 - 100 pounds 
Lights 
- 2 Metal Halide

Meow
Meow


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## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

Alright...now we got a plan...LOL. 

Here's the deal Meow, I'll be asking Q's, answering A's and direct you in setting it all up in a stepwise progression so that you aren't slammed with info. Take pics of the "evolution".

What are your thoughts on sumping or are you planning to keep it unsumped?

I probably won't be able to get back to your post until tomorrow. It's an early day and late night for me.


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## meow_mix450 (Mar 22, 2006)

lol heres my answer, yes I totally support sumps but what is stopping me is the knowledge of making a sump and how it works. Another problem that arise is drilling don't have the parts. But I would like to have a sump. 

Meow


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## Ciddian (Mar 15, 2006)

Mhmm.. Jay and i where talking about it too. We wernt sure if he could drill the tank he was getting... Do they need special glass? 
If Meows did go with a sump where or how would be the best way of getting the tank done.... Then there was the question of if he could keep the Skimmer in the sump and what Pump he would need.

These where all questions we had gotten stuck on.


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## Kase (Mar 22, 2006)

Sumps are generally easy.. all i have for a sump under my display tank is a 35gallon tank with 3 holes drilled in the back, 1 for return pump, 1 for skimmer pump, and the other just cuz i felt like drilling holes...lol.. pending how you do your return line you may need to drill a small hole in the line just below the water line... what the hole does is stop the siphon should the power ever go out

Cheers,
Roger


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## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

Hmmm...depending on the manufacturer and when it was "new", the bottom might be tempered (should be a lable stating so) and have to drill the back or use a HOB overflow (OF). Drilling would be the longterm peace of mind as HOB-OFs can lose siphon, flood the floor and burn out the return pump.

When it comes to drilling, one can either use a Dremmel and diamond tips or drill and diamond hole bit.

There are many methods/styles of sumping (in order of cost):
1. Acrylic: premade or custom
2. Glass: standard glass aquarium and silicone in partitions/baffles (Kase's sump).
3. RubberMaid containers

The return pump can be either submersed (internal) in the sump or have a hole drilled in the sump and plumbed to the pump (external). Ideally the return pump flowrate should be ~5-8X the volume of the display aquarium. Additional water movement is done by powerheads.

Don't forget that there is "head loss". Pump flowrate on the package is based on 0' head, meaning that the pump pushes "X"gph at 0' above the water line that the pump is in. Typically, the top of the output INTO the aquarium to the pump is 4'-5'. Depending on the brand of pump you have/going to buy, there is a flow chart. The curved line gives flow rate and head height.

As Kase mentioned, you have to drill a hole at the water return to break the siphon when/if the power goes out.

Unless you already have this link, it'll give you an idea of "sumping".

http://www.melevsreef.com/


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## meow_mix450 (Mar 22, 2006)

That link was actually very helpful. So I saw them using a weir what did you think of that? If I went with a sump I think I would go with Kase's sump but I need to find a cheap aquarium that isnt a bad size. Unless I use the tank that I have for my SW right now.....

Meow


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## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

The weir is another description of a HOB-OF. The drawbacks are potentially losing the siphon in the "U-tube" and using one requires the aquarium to be 4-6" from the wall to accomodate the back half of the OF. If you can get the aquarium drilled for an OF before you start the SW project, you're better off doing it now than later, IMHO.

Using a 35gal as a sump is fine provided that there is enough space to "put stuff in and take stuff out" of the sump. It's going to be a real PITA if space is tight. Ideally 12" from the top of the sump (where one would be "doing stuff") to the bottom of the top rail of the stand would make life much easier.


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## meow_mix450 (Mar 22, 2006)

Heres a little drawing I did on paint, what if I did that kind of overflow? Im not sure what times of over flow there are lol. But would this cause any problems or was this what you were talking about. For a piece like that what would the cost be you think? Another thing Im worried about is drilling, never done it before and I dont think I have the proper tools to do it.

Meow


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## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

You got the idea...I was working on a few diagrams...LOL.

What you have depicted is a 2 sided OF which costs $40-50. On the side of the aquarium, you'll be able to see what's going, but if you want it concealed, you can either paint the area, have that side against/near the wall or use the 3 sided OF ($60-70) and place it either 6-8" from the side pane or have it on centre.

Drilling the aquarium, there are no guarantees if they crack the glass. Even the most experienced will crack a panel every so often. In home drilling is approx $40-50/hole. Is the aquarium is going be new or acquired from another person?


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## meow_mix450 (Mar 22, 2006)

Oooo I think Im gonna go with the 2 sided if I can get someone to drill it for me. This is tank is comming from my dad(second hand). 

Meow


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## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

When the hole is drilled, you'll need a bulkhead and I recommend a Durso stand pipe that fits in the bulkhead. A Durso minimizes the crashing waterfall sound and the slurping sound.

http://www.dursostandpipes.com/


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## meow_mix450 (Mar 22, 2006)

Sorry Im not very good with some terms, what do you mean by bulkhead and with a Durso Stand Pipe does that mean I need another motar? Or is it many holes drilled through the PVC

P.S. lol nevermind I understand how it works now...one of the ways were to drill many holes but thats very time comsuming and a lot of room for error. I just dont see how water gets into the tube like that though. lol 

Meow


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## meow_mix450 (Mar 22, 2006)

Okay so I was going to my buddies pet store and i found a tank!!!! I was like man that would be perfect for my sump! so I went back home and brought my dolly to drag it home. Now that I looked at it, it might be to big lol. The measurements are 30L x 13W x 17H. I think is a 30 gallon. Then i got some base rock from my buddies store 1.25 a pound and he gave me 55 pounds for 40.00. So I just took it. Umm so I'm not to worried about someone drilling in this tank. But I'm just curious to know if that would be to big. 

Meow


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## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

I find 30T a bit too tall making access into the sump a bit too tight for my comfort if you are using a LFS stand. You want at least 12" clearance so that if need to work on "whatever" in the sump, at least it'll be comfortable doing so.

JME


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## vaporize (Apr 10, 2006)

where can I buy diamond hole drill bits in GTA?


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