# my newest moneypit



## fly4awhiteguy (Dec 27, 2011)

I decided a couple weeks ago that I wanted to try my hand at keeping shrimp that were a bit more advanced than the amano, and ghost shrimp I currently have. after reading CRS 101 and 201 I went out and purchased this 8 gal fluval EBI.
















here it is again, washed and substrate added
















and again, filled with water and some scenery- I will be adding more plants very soon









it has been up and running for a day and a half, and I figure while it cycles for the next 2-3 weeks I have a bunch of time to ask a bunch of questions and soak up as much info from everyone as I can.
I filled it with 6 gal of R/O water and topped it off with 2 gal of cycled water from another tank, with intentions of gradually doing very small water changes to phase the tap water out that was added from the other tank.was this a bad idea? should I have uset 100% R/O? I intend on keeping CRS in this tank, and this brings me to my 2nd question... in the tank package, they provided me with this "shrimp safe" stuff...








I have not added any in yet as I have been busy and havent fully read the dosing requirements. would I be better off to go and get some sort of different additives or will this do? I will be going to Aquainspirations to get my shimp, so I have time to create a little shopping list before I go.
For the time being these are the only 2 main questions I can think of, but I am sure plenty more will come as I have plenty more reading/asking to do.
Edit: so ya... I'm not the brightest crayon in the box
it isn't the shrimp safe I needed to ask about.. it was the shrimp mineral supplement used to adjust dh...
Thanks
Scott


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

Welcome. You should find a lot of us in that pit, deep in it ;-)

A 8G tank definitely can work, but if you really want to start with CRS, you may get a bit frustrated in the beginning. Do lots of reading and ask questions, there are a lot of experts in this forum from whom I've learned a lot from.

My two cents,
1. That background looks nice but it gets loose after a while and pop off the glass. Doesn't sound like a big problem but it is, it can knock out your light, your scape, and ... hope you get the idea. A lot of people use extra glue to glue it in place nicely, a lot of others just remove it entirely.

2. If you only use the substrate in the bag that comes with the package, it's not likely enough. With RO, FSS is okay, but it's not known for its PH lowering ability. If you want to start with CRS, I would go buy a small bag of Netlea/Lambo (from AI) and use that instead. It takes longer to cycle but it works better for CRS especially for breeding. BTW, FSS is actually more expensive than the goodies you get from AI.

3. If you don't want to change the substrate, I really recommend starting with Neocaridina (cherry, rili, snow ball, PFR, orange, ... etc). And trust me, you will get a bigger tank for CRS later when you are successful in these shrimp in this tank.

4. For your question about RO, I think it's okay. Start using remineralized RO from now on then your PH may be acceptable for Caridina (but won't be great). 

5. That shrimp safe stuff, although I have never used it, should be something like Seachem Prime, basically remove the harmful stuff from tap water so it's shrimp safe. If you use RO, you don't need it. 

6. Money pit starts here, I recommend you to get the following if you don't already have them,
- TDS pen,
- PH pen,
- Test kit (not test stripes) for
- ammonia
- nitrite
- nitrate
- GH/KH

Are these necessary? In my opinion, they are, for 99% of the newbies and 80% of experienced shrimp keepers.


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## getochkn (Jul 10, 2011)

I have to agree with everything Randy said.

8G is a bit small to start CRS with. An experienced keeper can get them going in a 5.5 or even 2.5g tank but for starting off with shrimp, you may to try some cherries or something else first.

Since it's just setup, and I know this sounds like a PITA, but I would drain the water, remove the substrate and silicone that background on there good. Almost everyone who has one of these tanks has a problem with the background at some point. It will pop off and because its Styrofoam, it will float, possible knocking the light, dumping water everywhere, your plants, etc. You can google it to see. I did find one post where they supposedly fixed it, and you can tell if yours has black silicone holding the background on or clear, black is supposed to be the newer ones that are fixed but I can't find many more posts even about that. Just would be a bummer 6 months down the road to have your tank trashed because this happens. 

I think these tanks are ok for cherries or other easy shrimp but as Randy said, that soil won't buffer the best for crystals and the smaller water volume isn't the best for them either.


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## fly4awhiteguy (Dec 27, 2011)

thanks guys.. I already had an API master kit, so I went today and got the gh/kh testers to go with it, and when I was setting up the tank I did notice the use of black silicone, so I'll hold my breath and hope for the best... I'll check it regularly and if it feels a little loose Ill just yank it and replace with a black background. regarding shrimp.... are OEBT's any easier to care for than CRS?


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

Regarding to the difficulty of OEBT vs CRS. I guess it depends on a lot of factors. Both are easy to keep alive but breeding requires some attention and, believe it or not, luck. 

If these are the two left on your choice, and price isn't an issue, I say go with OEBTs or regular tigers, because I don't have confidence with FSS's PH lowering ability, and OEBTs can do relatively well in higher PH (say, 6.8 or so).


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## fly4awhiteguy (Dec 27, 2011)

actually randy, after seeing the pitures of your OEBT I must admit, that those are what I want the most... do you think they sell these at AI? or may you possibly have some for sale in the future?


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## splur (May 11, 2011)

Build up to the OEBT. Those are not beginner shrimp. Even high grade CRS are not the easiest to keep babies alive. Breeding and keeping adults alive is no problem, almost as easy as cherry shrimp.

One tip that I learned far down the road, get mineral rock. Remineralisation of RO does help, but I find sometimes you still come across molting problems where mineral rock really helps with it. More living babies is a happier owner!


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

fly4awhiteguy said:


> actually randy, after seeing the pitures of your OEBT I must admit, that those are what I want the most... do you think they sell these at AI? or may you possibly have some for sale in the future?


These OEBTs are moody, at least mine are. I have two different lines. Tier one were very blue when I got them, but one would turn blondes sometimes and others turn very dark blue (sometimes entirely BLACK). I'm still gaining experience on this shrimp. They are very sexy looking when they have their best colour showing, I just need to learn how to keep them that way.

I believe AI is doing a new shrimp order soon, they may get some OEBTs again but you'll have to ask the store to be sure. I got my tier one from there and they are very good.

My tier 2 I got from a breeder in the states since they were like 1cm. The breeding seems okay, they start getting berried just when they reached the size, and females are getting berried pretty frequently. I had two drops a week ago and starting to see babies now (the first drop of two females), another female is dropping soon in the next few days, and I just saw another two berried shrimps. However, I heard the babies are very hard to keep alive, so I still don't have any outlook for babies growing to the size I can share with others yet.



splur said:


> Build up to the OEBT. Those are not beginner shrimp. Even high grade CRS are not the easiest to keep babies alive. Breeding and keeping adults alive is no problem, almost as easy as cherry shrimp.
> 
> One tip that I learned far down the road, get mineral rock. Remineralisation of RO does help, but I find sometimes you still come across molting problems where mineral rock really helps with it. More living babies is a happier owner!


I have to agree with this. If price isn't a concern I say start with the one you like (if choices are only these two), otherwise, I personally would start with CRS as the lower grades can be had at very reasonable cost. The CRS babies are the cutest thing in my tanks, even got my wife's approval on that one. These candy canes are so sweet ;-)

Now, to the blunt part (I don't say things like this in open forum often), and it's not easy to accept so be warned. If I were you, I would take that FSS out and get some ADA substrate (not going to cost much for your tank size), and cycle it for at least a month before adding CRS. I don't see that you'll do this, and I wish you good result if you decide not to do this. It's just my opinion and what I would've done. For Tigers FSS might be okay, from my limited experience, I think for the kind of water we get here, substrate is the NUMBER ONE factor for bee shrimp breeding. Take it for what it's worth.


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## Symplicity (Oct 14, 2011)

Plz start with RCS give it a month if ur ready move up to crs


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## matti2uude (Jan 10, 2009)

He could start with yellows or orange too. Incase he doesn't like cherries.


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## bettaforu (Sep 6, 2009)

Im gonna throw in my 2 cents worth here! In regards to the OEBTs (which I have kept for quite a long time now and bred over 300+ of them at one time a few years back) I think you should start with something easier.

If you like the look of the tiger shrimps, then go with regular tigers first. IF you can get them to breed and the babies to stay alive and grow to adulthood, then you can move up to something a bit more challenging, like the OEBTs. 

We here in the GTA community have all had our ups and downs and seen many first time shrimpers get hyped up over the thought of keeping these wonderful shrimp, only to find out down the road that its not as easy as it seems.

Its a learning curve....you start with something that doesn't cost you an arm and a leg, and once you've mastered that, you move up to a higher level of shrimpkeeping.

Shrimps are great fun, they are wonderful to watch, but they need attention, be it keeping the water just right in the case of PH levels for CRS or keeping algae at bay, or just keeping them from dying from a hard time molting....it all happens! You get excited about new babies arriving and get frustrated when you realize they are no longer in your tank and have died somehow.

Be patient...this is the key to good shrimpkeeping! Shrimps will teach you to be patient....I can attest to that, having watched and watched and watched day after day a berried female ready to release her clutch only to have her hold out longer  Then waking up the next day to find her empty and the babies are scattered throughout the tank and I missed the whole darn thing 

I agree about the soil that comes with this tank (having one of them here at home) I opted to use Netlea soil instead (available from Aqua Inspirations)
which tends to buffer PH much better and is just a better quality soil for shrimps in general.

As for OEBTs they are not as readily available right now. I have a few, but mine are not breeding, and trying to find a breeder who will part with them is hard especially here in Canada. Average price on these shrimps is $15+
shipping, so not something you want to make too many mistakes with.

Regular tigers are much cheaper and just as nice to have while you are getting your feet wet in shrimpkeeping.  We are not trying to disuade you from having the shrimps you really like, but we have ALL been there...many of us told the same thing by older experienced shrimpers, and we still went out and did it our way (myself included) and learned the hard way, that you need to walk before you can run!

Lots of people on this forum can give you advice, point you in the right direction, and be of great help. We've all been there, done that, ooops, crikey, OH NO! had that happen, but we never give up...its a great hobby, glad you decided to join us.


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## fly4awhiteguy (Dec 27, 2011)

Thanks for all the advice guys... I have decided first off to go ahead and get the netlea soil, however I may have to wait a week or two until I can drive all the way to markham to get it. That being said.. if I drain the tank and save the water, then change the netlea and add the existing cycled water, will I need to go through another cycle again? I have heard that netlea takes longer to cycle, but have no idea of its effect in alreqdy cycled water. Also, with everybody chiming in telling me to avoid OEBT and CRS at the beginning of this hobby.. I must have been setting up to do something stupid.lol thank you all for stopping me, its not that I dislike cherries, I just for some reason always fit them into the same catagory of shrimp as the amano and ghost shrimp I have kept over the last 6 months. I may be completely wrong in assuming this, if so- I at least know I can get some close to home without a drive to the gta.. also, I have heard of all the regular tigers, blue pearl, yellows, oranges etc... Would some of these be a better place to start? Thanks again. Everyone for all the advice and foresight you have offered me here.


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

If you decided to go with neo's then you can use what you have. Using Netlea or any active substrate actually is a bad idea for them as some will not survive well in sub6 ph.


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## getochkn (Jul 10, 2011)

randy said:


> If you decided to go with neo's then you can use what you have. Using Netlea or any active substrate actually is a bad idea for them as some will not survive well in sub6 ph.


+1

You sort of have to make a choice on the shrimp you want first, then decide the substrate. Netlea buffers my water down to 5.2pH and cherries/snowballs, etc have died in it. Except 1 cherry, was about 2 days old, it got transferred in some moss and has grown up in one of my CRS tanks and is doing fine, but it adapted from birth. I don't even want to take it out since it might die going in my 7.4pH cherry tank, so it'll live out it's life in the low pH tank but usually they don't do well in a Netlea soil tank.


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## fly4awhiteguy (Dec 27, 2011)

from all that I have learned I think I will definately start with neos.... 6 months down the road I can look into CRS etc, when I have a better grasp of all the requirements.


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## splur (May 11, 2011)

fly4awhiteguy said:


> Thanks for all the advice guys... I have decided first off to go ahead and get the netlea soil, however I may have to wait a week or two until I can drive all the way to markham to get it. That being said.. if I drain the tank and save the water, then change the netlea and add the existing cycled water, will I need to go through another cycle again? I have heard that netlea takes longer to cycle, but have no idea of its effect in alreqdy cycled water. Also, with everybody chiming in telling me to avoid OEBT and CRS at the beginning of this hobby.. I must have been setting up to do something stupid.lol thank you all for stopping me, its not that I dislike cherries, I just for some reason always fit them into the same catagory of shrimp as the amano and ghost shrimp I have kept over the last 6 months. I may be completely wrong in assuming this, if so- I at least know I can get some close to home without a drive to the gta.. also, I have heard of all the regular tigers, blue pearl, yellows, oranges etc... Would some of these be a better place to start? Thanks again. Everyone for all the advice and foresight you have offered me here.


There's nothing in the water during a cycle. If you've been cycling, keep the filter going in whatever with water while you add the substrate, then reconnect the filter. It's all in the biomedia of your filter, only a small percentage is on the surfaces in the tank, and insignificant in the water.


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## bettaforu (Sep 6, 2009)

when I shut down a tank for any reason, maybe a crack or just want to change it over for another type of shrimp I always take out my sponge filter and drop it in another tank that is up and running. This keeps the biofilm (microorganisms in the sponge) alive. 

When I have set up my new tank with the soil, plants rocks etc the way I want it to look, I put in the sponge filter from the other tank, and let it run for a few days. 

I have added shrimp to these tanks after only several days running like this and have had NO problems with dead shrimps. I have done this many times over the years and it works for me. 

You can get some very nice looking Neo shrimps which you can use in your current tank setup. Painted Fire Red is very nice, these are the Cherry shrimps that have been specially bred for the dense red coloration...much nicer to look at than regular cherries.

I believe a few GTA members on here might have some for sale, just place a wanted post in the livestock section and see who responds.


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## fly4awhiteguy (Dec 27, 2011)

Update-
I sqeezed a bunch of goo out if one of my canister filters, waited a week and tested the water-everything tested well, so I added some hornwart, ludwiga, and moss balls to the tank, I also added a bunch of ghost shrimp, to help it cycle... 3 days ago I added an oto cat to the tank to try and clean a bit of the algea off the glass and the ludwiga. everything has been doing well in the tank and the water has been testing normal every time I check it (every 2 days), so today I added 6 blue pearl shrimp.
























the original ghosts I had in the tank have been re-homed in the community tank, but I think I will keep the oto in this tank for a bit of algea control.


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## fly4awhiteguy (Dec 27, 2011)

I actually managed to get a descent picture today//


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

Looking good. Looks like you are getting some berried soon. Mind sharing the parameter in that tank? It is FSS, right?


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## fly4awhiteguy (Dec 27, 2011)

GH-6
KH-2
PH-6.8
Nitrite-0
Nitrate-5
Ammonia-0
I have been topping up and wc with 50/50 tap/RO water. I have no idea what the water is like out of the tap, here but at the mention of it I think I will test it tonight, just so I know what I am adding to the tank. I read a really good thread by Bettforu about starting a tank with fss.. I got really excited when I first started to read it.. but 2 months into it the fss stopped working... For now ill just continue to monitor the water... Mabey ill buy a few bags of netlea, and start to cycle my 20 gal with it, that way when it is good to go, I can transfer the shrimp, and then swap out the fss in this tank.


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