# Fish for a responsible beginner.



## Justin (Jul 26, 2009)

Hi everyone! My name is Justin and I am starting a tank. It is roughly 10g (40L) and I will be getting fish soon. I have an air pump, filter, and tank. I am wondering what cheap fish I should start out with? (Notice the key word CHEAP ) My parents are really picky about fish that last and are realatively cheap. If someone could please suggest some cheap fish and a good place to get them around the GTA, it would be greatly apprieciated . Thanks everyone. Justin . P.S. Ive gotten bettas before, and I HATE them!


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## KnaveTO (May 13, 2007)

Well first off NO GOLDFISH!!! sorry couldn't help myself there. There are a number of small species that you could host in a small tank like that. Betta's are nice, so are a few guppies. Just be careful about them breeding  there are some small cold water fish you can keep in there but I am not too knowledgeable about them. If you want tropical you will need a heater for that tank as well.

Welcome to GTAA


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## Hitch (Apr 26, 2009)

Hey Justin,

Welcome to the forum and more importantly, welcome to the hobby.

How long have you set up your tank? before you start adding some fish, you will need to cycle the tank, which is slowly establishing nitrogenous bacteria in the filter, gravel etc that will break down the ammonia, nitrite in the water to less harmful forms. If you haven't cycled your tank yet, go to here, its a relatively quick and simple way of cycling: http://gtaaquaria.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8458

AS for fish, most fish are quite cheap (anywhere from $1-$10 a fish). You can think about things like, guppies, platies, neon tetras and cory catfish. They are all hardy fish and stay small, so you can have a group of them in your 10 gallon.

Just one more thing, get a heater for your tank, most fish would need warmer waters to live in.


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## Justin (Jul 26, 2009)

*Thanks!*

Hey Thanks Hitch! Yeah, I've been at the pet store a few times this week and I was looking at the neon tetras, there amazing little creatures. I think thats what i'll get. I have another question though, the pet store gave me a bag a these little snail things, I put them in. Some of em are floating now. Are they dead? And what cheap fish should I not get because of the snails. And what goes best with the snails?

Thanks again Justin


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## Hitch (Apr 26, 2009)

If they are floating, try moving them a bit, sometimes air bubbles get trapped in their shells. But if they are still motionless, than yes they are dead, so remove them asap.

as for fish that goes well with snails, almost everything. Things to stay away from (if you wish to continue to have snails) are loaches and puffers. But what you can do also is the next time you visit your local fish store (LFS), write a list of your liked fish, then go home and do some research on them. Almost all fish profiles will tell you the basic care and needs of the fish.


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## AquaNeko (Jul 26, 2009)

Justin,

For a 10 gal tank you have a bit more options being a slightly larger tank. As mentioned before the Betta but you've mentioned not liking them (check out any of the guys? They flare up  ) so I'm not sure if you saw a batch of females. Then again I'm not knowledgeable in the Betta dept. so I'm not sure if the females flare as well.

Betta flaring and nice song too!

I have owned wild minnows before when I was younger and a crayfish. Both are cold water as they are local wild caught then. Being in a 10 gal and I don't think you mentioned a heater I would say look into cold water fish as they can seem to take the seasonal household temp swings (if you've got central air that is) of ~16C-22C (my temps are based on a home with central air with air conditioning with my tank located in the basement which seems to hold a stable temp).

Now I think in un-heated/cooled house your temps may rise/lower by ~3-5C but I'm not really sure of that as my AC's working and I can't remember my temps during the great blackout of 2003 (I think it was 2003) during the heat for ~4 days.

You mentioned the cost being cheap. Well I would take that as a $3 or less requirement then so your losses are low if you lose any fish. So what fish to get? I've done a little online research from various sites and also in the same boat with you. Here are some of my findings. Look up :

[White Cloud Minnows]

One of my reference sites. Robyn's White Cloud Minnow page

-Silver body with red tailfins
-~1-1.5" adult size
-$2.99 PetsMart or ~$1 less then Petsmart at Local Fish Store (LFS)) 
-Wide temp range 5C - 25C (some people even over wintered in a outdoor pond with water temps ~3C)

[Rosy Red Minnows]

One of my reference sites. Robyn's Rosy Red Minnow page

-Orange-yellow/white body that looks like a small goldfish
-Silver body ones are mixed in there as well but the silvers are 'Fathead' minnows.
-~2-3" adult size
-$0.17 Petsmart with a pick of red or silver. I'd imagine $2/20 at a LFS but just going with Petsmart.
-WIDE temp range
-Considered as 'tough as nails'

I found the Rosy Red Minnows fun to keep. They seemed very active and seemed to swim all around the tank on all levels. Also they are CHEAP as per your requirements. I screwed up while relearning the aquarium thing (getting back into the hobby) and lost my Rosy Red Minnows in a rapid pH drop when I was trying to change the pH  but when I had them they're a nice fish to have. Seemed to all follow my finger when I moved it around so that was cute. I've no experience with White Cloud Minnows yet.

You may want to start with one Rosy Red Minnow given your larger tank and add another one in each week to slowly build up the tank system and biosystem.

What filter do you have? 
What tank size is it rated for? 
Do you have a water test kit? (If yes then do the next question) 
Have you gotten your water tested FROM THE TAP? (pH)
Have you gotten your water tested FROM THE FISHTANK? (after a few days that is)

If you ask VERY kindly at your LFS they may give you 1-2 pH test strips. I know for a fact that Petsmart gives free water testings. I would totally suggest you make use of this service whenever possible. Bring two clean containers/bags of water (I used zip bags) and LABEL them 'FROM TAP' and 'FROM FISHTANK' and have the CSR at the store test the water for you. Sometimes they'll just give you a 'it's ok you're good' basic answer but I would press for specific numerical values of what was tested and write those down for your reference. Ask them before they do the test so they can write it down fresh in memory then after the test.

I'm kinda pro-Petsmart just for the store feel inside and thier bright tank setups.

Disclaimer: No affliation to the Petsmart company, getting kickbacks for name dropping, etc. Just had a VERY good no pressure to buy, met some knowledgeable staff, not being watched & hovered around like a hawk, and experience there that is all.

Hope that helps.

AquaNeko

Edit: If for some reason you decide to go with a crayfish make sure your cover is on good with all gaps covered. They seem to like to escape the tanks and go for the fridge magnets (if anyone got that reference. LOL. If not I'll see about providing that link(work safe). ).


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## Justin (Jul 26, 2009)

*Wow Thanks!*



AquaNeko said:


> Justin,
> 
> For a 10 gal tank you have a bit more options being a slightly larger tank. As mentioned before the Betta but you've mentioned not liking them (check out any of the guys? They flare up  ) so I'm not sure if you saw a batch of females. Then again I'm not knowledgeable in the Betta dept. so I'm not sure if the females flare as well.
> 
> ...


WOW THANKS ALOT!

That was great! I've also had crayfish before, they are great! Me and my friends go fishing alot and when ever we go, we bring back some crayfish. Minnows look great, because if they die, nothing really lost... Big Al's sells them, but they sell bulk. How many minnows is too many minnows for a 10G? Thanks for all the help,

Justin


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## AquaNeko (Jul 26, 2009)

Justin,

Well I've read a lot of comments on other forums/web about the 1in of fish per 1 gallon rule. There are some expections to the rule (ie. goldfish) as always. 

While some people argue the 1in of fish per gallon rule I've seen many a tanks with what appears to be clear and happy fish in there using that rule. My understanding and seems to be a general concenous on this (from having read a lot the last month on this) is that the 1" per gallon rule applies to fish with a max growth of less then 2". 

So you could stock 10 fish in there if you wanted by that above comment. I've also heard of if the fish is a very low polluter you can add 1-2 extra fish (same species) in there if you have a good filter to keep things clean. 

Any of the two listed fish should last you a long time and from all I've read they do fine at in home setting without a heater. Which is why I like them because I've heard a lot of 'cooked' fish stories which kinda made me not want a heater. Also less cost/maintance and worry on that heater. 

If you've got some handy skills or a friend/family member that does you may also want to look into 'aquaponics' and save some cost on your filters and grow some cooking herbs or produce at the same time. Your folks may appreciate the cost savings and freshness and convience of having the herbs so close.  Basically you can make a small rack over the top of your fish tank, get a cheap 65-85gph water pump for like $9 bucks, some herb seeds, and a cheap light timer ~$3-5 I think at Can.Tire.

Basically the top part of the tank has a soilless growing medium in there (pea gravel/aquarium gravel (from my research same thing tho aquairum gravel has more color choice then the natural color that pea gravel has) or hydroton small ph neutal clay pellets. The water pump pumps water up to the growbed and the water drains back into the tank filtered and clean. Plants -LOVE- nitrates and suck up as much as they can. The growing medium does the same thing as gravel in your tank and builds up beneficial cultures to convert ammonia to nitrites then nitrates which the plants absorb it all up then return it clean to the tank. Add water for loss of evaporation and plant absorption (sp?) 

Just set your timer to go off about every 1-3 hours for that water pump. It's all happy happy then. Saving on the filter costs while having a larger biofilter on the top and the folks being happy to get something edible out of it. Of course you're going ot have to locate the growbed by a light source like a window or add your own lights on top. I've read a lot about white-cold (6500k temp) lights being able to grow a lot of stuff well. 


AquaNeko


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## Justin (Jul 26, 2009)

*Thanks again...*



AquaNeko said:


> Justin,
> 
> Well I've read a lot of comments on other forums/web about the 1in of fish per 1 gallon rule. There are some expections to the rule (ie. goldfish) as always.
> 
> ...


Hey thanks again Neko!

My 10G broke and we had to resort to a 5G, so would 6/7 be too many? or should I stick with 5. I think mine is a 10 G, IDK , I had to measure it myself. It is 24cmX40cmX21cm. What other fishes should I put, or should I just stick with the minnows? (I want them to have fry so...) and which minnows are easy to breed and take care of. Thanks again, Justin!


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## AquaNeko (Jul 26, 2009)

Justin said:


> Hey thanks again Neko!
> 
> My 10G broke and we had to resort to a 5G, so would 6/7 be too many? or should I stick with 5. I think mine is a 10 G, IDK , I had to measure it myself. It is 24cmX40cmX21cm. What other fishes should I put, or should I just stick with the minnows? (I want them to have fry so...) and which minnows are easy to breed and take care of. Thanks again, Justin!


I would say probably 3-5 pending how much space is in there. Remember once you start adding decorations and plants it will displace the water volume so you're not really getting a 'raw' rating amount of water in there. What I mean is a 5.5gal with a lot of decoration hardware and gravel can probably displace I think 2-4L of water.

Now I've never raised fry before. I have done a tadpole before but totally different here. Your options get very limited with a small standard size tank like that and smaller tanks. What I've read in some posts here some poster had white cloud minnows in there office with some (red?) cherry shrimp in there. That way you have a clean up crew while still having some fish to watch. My understanding is that the shrimp clean up the scapes at the bottom of the tank and also graze on the algae.

I have heard that you can have 2 shrimp per gallon of water because those cherry shrimps can be ~1" in size and non-agressive. I've no experience with fish breeding. I've heard White Clouds breed easy as well and will eat thier own fry.

Probably max at 3-4 White Cloud Minnows and 2 cherry shrimp ( Shrimp 18C - 30C) for that tank. In the basement the temps are stable and cool in the summer time. Ground floor would probably be plus 1-2 degrees and a second floor plus 1-2 degree from the ground.

My laser-IR thermometer (+/- 1-2 degree accurary IIRC the packaging) registers a 21C basement, 24-25C ground floor, and I'll have to check second floor later.

I have no idea on the cost of the cherry shrimp. If you do let me know. You probably can get away with 2 White Cloud Minnows (male and female pair) and a divider or breeder box. It'll work for a little while then the bioload from all the fry would start to work for filter from the overpopulation. Define 'broke' on your 10g tank? Like 'opps dropped on concreate' and shattered or just a leak from the sides? If it's a leak you could get some aquarium sealant and reseal it.


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## Justin (Jul 26, 2009)

AquaNeko said:


> I would say probably 3-5 pending how much space is in there. Remember once you start adding decorations and plants it will displace the water volume so you're not really getting a 'raw' rating amount of water in there. What I mean is a 5.5gal with a lot of decoration hardware and gravel can probably displace I think 2-4L of water.
> 
> Now I've never raised fry before. I have done a tadpole before but totally different here. Your options get very limited with a small standard size tank like that and smaller tanks. What I've read in some posts here some poster had white cloud minnows in there office with some (red?) cherry shrimp in there. That way you have a clean up crew while still having some fish to watch. My understanding is that the shrimp clean up the scapes at the bottom of the tank and also graze on the algae.
> 
> ...


Break as in: ppl came over, little girl knocked it over, glass everywhere and half of my snails are dead! Would ghost shrimp be the same ratio as re cherry?


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## AquaNeko (Jul 26, 2009)

Justin said:


> Break as in: ppl came over, little girl knocked it over, glass everywhere and half of my snails are dead! Would ghost shrimp be the same ratio as re cherry?


I'm not sure on ghost shrimp. I have been thinking of getting Amano Shrimp which I've read are good at eating algae but whiel on the subject of Ghost Shrimp thier price is $0.99 @ Petsmart.

I don't think so. http://http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/inv/ghostshrimp.php That site says 1 shrimp every 1 gal and that they are agressive to other of thier own kind. You can try and find out by getting two males per 1 gal and see how it is as it's $1/ea and they're 1" max.


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## KhuliLoachFan (Mar 8, 2008)

*my first 10g had three platies. And then babies.*

I started a 10g with Platies right when first starting in this hobby, and it's still going with descendants of those first platies. I just love livebearers. Platies were much hardier than Mollies, in our toronto hard water, it seems. And babies. Babies are SO fun!

Shrimps are also lots of fun. And shrimpy babies, if you can see them, are lots of fun. Snails. And I just love Microgalaxy Raspboras. Whatever you will LOVE and CARE FOR, and can house responsibly, is the right fish for you!

W


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## bluekrissyspikes (Apr 16, 2009)

omg...someone's kid smashed your tank? why aren't you sending them off to get a new one. if it were me i would have made them go to the closest pet store for a replacement


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## MichaelAngelo (Jul 6, 2009)

hey dude, I'm at your level, just looking for cheap, hardy, and different/unique critters to keep. Many inverts fit that bill.

Ghost shrimp are really cheap at Lucky Aquarium in Market Village (next to Pacific mall, upstairs), $5 for 25. Unbeatable in the GTA I think.

Cherry shrimp, _don't buy in pet stores because they're really really overpriced_. Go on kijiji.ca for Toronto and search for cherry shrimp. You'll find some breeders selling them for really cheap. *I'd only recommend cherries if you have a dark substrate, or else they turn clear! Important for show!*

Crayfish = awesome and cheap. 3 bucks at Big Al's for feeder crays (just as good, just don't mix the water from their bag with yours... or $15 for electric blue mmmmm.


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