# Riots In T.O



## TBemba

What is going on in Toronto?

Is everyone that upset about the Leafs not getting Tyler Seguin?


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## AquaNekoMobile

TBemba said:


> What is going on in Toronto?
> 
> Is everyone that upset about the Leafs not getting Tyler Seguin?


Sometimes I really wonder if the cops have extra 'ops' in thier dept. and especially for the G8/20 to justify thier budgets for the security funding by inserting some of thier own into the protesting crowd and torching some of thier cars.

Who knows. I forgot the news a while ago where some of the cops that pulled out some protesters turned out to be thier own they're extracting that looked liek they're pulling out protesters. IIRC it was traced back by pant and boot issue which only came from the enforcing party there. Forgot which event that was. It was in the news that much I remember.

Anyways could have been some violent individuals that joined the protest just to make trouble. I'm all for getting your voice heard by taking to a demonstration/protest to voice your concerns but hurting others or destroying property just makes it look bad on your group tho I have to say many protesters tend to police thier own to keep it peaceful but there are always a few bad apples in every bunch.


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## mauve

the cops seem to be more interested in harassing bystanders than the actual vandals.
It is all a staged and predictable spectacle.


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## Philip.Chan.92

The Black Block people REALLY messed up Toronto's image, I mean this riot is broadcasted internationally and now ppl think that we're like detroit or something with the violence and cop cruisers on fire...I mean they didn't even have a message to send, they just broke stuff >.>


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## mauve

These useless people are the product of the very society that bred them. 
After they are finished "protesting" they will go on buying crap they don't need, thereby supporting the system they are "against".


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## Philip.Chan.92

Those people weren't even protesting...they had no reason to be there except be pardon my language shit disturbers >.< Toronto is a great city, these people are mostly teenagers who have nothing better to do on a saturday...I mean comon, parties? Summer just started and I can barely keep up with the parties and such, no time to break windows and set cars on fire ahaha


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## Darkblade48

Summer is just another season. I'm a slave to the lab 

While the riots were breaking out, I was in the lab. So sad.


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## ameekplec.

Darkblade48 said:


> Summer is just another season. I'm a slave to the lab
> 
> While the riots were breaking out, I was in the lab. So sad.


I like the summer because it's not dark when I get to the lab and dark when I leave.

All I saw were the police that kept coming out from the station on Dundas. Other than that, not much exciting happened around us.


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## bigfishy

Philip.Chan.92 said:


> The Black Block people REALLY messed up Toronto's image, I mean this riot is broadcasted internationally and now ppl think that we're like detroit or something with the violence and cop cruisers on fire...I mean they didn't even have a message to send, they just broke stuff >.>


They did sent a message by having G20 is a bad thing, because it will create chaos. Sometimes a peaceful demonstration, the government will just ignore the fact of people protesting. It needs a riot to grab the government's attention


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## Joeee

bigfishy said:


> They did sent a message by having G20 is a bad thing, because it will create chaos. Sometimes a peaceful demonstration, the government will just ignore the fact of people protesting. It needs a riot to grab the government's attention


Conferences don't create chaos, people do.

Sometimes the attention you want isn't the one you will always get.






Truthbetold, if they fired off a few rounds into the air or shot one of the violent 'protestors', then they would of all just dispersed. If I were in charge and the world wasn't watching, I'd bring in a tank to scare them off.


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## ameekplec.

Ah, if only we were in Russia or something. Although, somehow I don't think North Americans are receptive to tanks rolling through their cities.

I think the police have been doing a pretty effective job keeping the G20 site safe and the rioting to a minimum - this is nothing compared to the shenanigans they get up to in Europe.


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## bigfishy

Joeee said:


> Conferences don't create chaos, people do.
> 
> Sometimes the attention you want isn't the one you will always get.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Truthbetold, if they fired off a few rounds into the air or shot one of the violent 'protestors', then they would of all just dispersed. If I were in charge and the world wasn't watching, I'd bring in a tank to scare them off.


That is sad, that guy got ran over by the tank 

~~~~~~~~


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## mauve

The true reality is that the real THUGS are those who decided to have this "show" in the heart of Toronto, and spending a [email protected]#$ing BILLION dollars on it!

Just think about it, and the idiots smashing windows are going to fade in comparison with real criminals.


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## arktixan

When looking at the pictures, and some video... it looks like the cops purposely put cop cars in random locations for damage to be done... from what I have heard all the "rioting" and damage is no where near where the actual G20 is being held. . its a good 3+ block away... They aren't even at the fences yet or trying to break them down... I say the cops are doing a find job. They also said on the news that Toronto called in Police from Alberta/BC, and I am sure teh other provinces for extra help. 

Part of me wonders how many of these protestors are even Canadian... and the Vandals.


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## Byronicle

I believe one thing that is really wrong is that we spent $1 billion in security for this ~week long event in one of the safest cities in the world.

FIFA world cup spent $100 million in security for their ~month long event in one of the most dangerous places in the world...

One thing these protesters are mediocre, all talk, lighting up some police cars is really going to just get you attention, that is all and that is all they are looking for. You can see it in their eyes, they want to start trouble but too afraid to get in some. Its all gang mentality, no one wants to get hurt, as soon as one goes down, they all run for it.


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## Philip.Chan.92

safety of world leaders > safety of soccer players, also, the world leaders have much more enemies than soccer players lol.


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## trailblazer295

arktixan said:


> When looking at the pictures, and some video... it looks like the cops purposely put cop cars in random locations for damage to be done... from what I have heard all the "rioting" and damage is no where near where the actual G20 is being held. . its a good 3+ block away... They aren't even at the fences yet or trying to break them down... I say the cops are doing a find job. They also said on the news that Toronto called in Police from Alberta/BC, and I am sure teh other provinces for extra help.
> 
> Part of me wonders how many of these protestors are even Canadian... and the Vandals.


I heard the same thing on the news, they placed city buses already with smashed windows around and broke store windows on purpose to make the mob think they did destroy something.


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## AquaNekoMobile

I know there is a shotgun taser out there for the LEO's. Why not flack off some of those smashing windows and such? Or use paintball guns (street rules not tourney rules   dialed up PSI for higher FPS ) with a high cyclic rate so when window smashing protester or guy walking to the window with a brick/bat/object of reasonable mass to smash a window and winding up for the pitch throw you cut loose a 3-4 RPS burst and sack buddy down to the holding pen.

A 5 second burst of .68cal @ 800-1000FPS at the legs and body. Won't kill s/he who's doing the damage but sure as hell either stun them or they'll be very motivated to stop with nice welt marks from the impact of the broken paintballs.


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## trailblazer295

If only, unfortunatly there are always people who itch and whine about the police "over reacting", many thought they shouldn't have had so many as there are now and they haven't fired any rubber bullets. The reason they chose police over military is there objective is slightly different and the army would react a lot differnently to the actions but would be accused of going over board. It's a no win situation for them they are damned if they do and damned if they don't. Despite the trouble makers wanting violence and confruntation if they were to get there ____ kicked they would complain about police brutality.


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## AquariAM

Joee did you seriously just post a video of the Tien An Men incident in jest? That's not funny man. People died there. 

Incredibly insensitive.


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## Joeee

AquariAM said:


> Joee did you seriously just post a video of the Tien An Men incident in jest? That's not funny man. People died there.
> 
> Incredibly insensitive.


Not suppose to be funny actually, just showing that the attention you want isn't the attention you'll always get. The thing about the violent 'protesting' is that I think the Toronto police would actually be able to get away with something as extreme as the Rodney King incident.


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## mauve

Whatever is happening right now at Spadina and Queen is simply outrageous.
I am just speechless. 
An enormous amount of all kinds of police corralled and are arresting a bunch bystanders and peaceful demonstrators, who just want to leave 
When actually there was violence and vandalism they just stood around, clearly indicating that it all was a staged act.
This is pretty messed up, and I hope is going to bring some severe repercussions to the current government, that is, the end of it...


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## Philip.Chan.92

mauve said:


> Whatever is happening right now at Spadina and Queen is simply outrageous.
> I am just speechless.
> An enormous amount of all kinds of police corralled and are arresting a bunch bystanders and peaceful demonstrators, who just want to leave
> When actually there was violence and vandalism they just stood around, clearly indicating that it all was a staged act.
> This is pretty messed up, and I hope is going to bring some severe repercussions to the current government, that is, the end of it...


Lol end of the canadian government? You would be caught in that cross-fire, US's economy would feel it, and then the world will feel it.  And then China will take over ahahaha


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## Cypher

McGuinty?? What about the idiot Harper for bringing this bullsh*t over here? You're fishing small fry when u should be going after the real idiot who brought this down on us. I hope the police chief, the entire fking police force in Ontario, CSIS, and the RCMP get their incompetent asses sued the sh*t outta them and I hope they friggin lose. All their over paid asses should have their wages cut in half for this and tax payers be refunded for all the bullsh*t lack of planning and training we've been witness to in the past 24 hours. Canada no longer stands for human rights if any thing is clear it is that.


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## mauve

The sad thing is: all of those protests, both violent and legitimate were in vain as expected, and even if they were noticed, no one would even listen to them.
Property destruction was inevitable and there are always brain dead douche bags who'd be happy to have a violent outlet for their pant up testosterone.

A few things are clear though:
The summit should have never been hosted in Toronto. 
The real bastards and vandals are those who spent over a billion of OUR dollars (can you imagine ONE BILLION?) on this useless orgy.

A bloated government is a cancer to which its citizens become slaves. 
On this I am 100% with the real anarchists (not the ones media kept talking about)


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## PACMAN

Why host it downtown??? Do it at the Exhibition!


I hate this Black Bloc with a passion. stupid vandals!!! I wish the police used lethal force on them. use the LRAD, use the rubber bullets!!!!!! Now us taxpayers have to front the bill for 2 cop cars as well.


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## mauve

^^^^^
So called Black Bloc is a useful tool 
to manipulate public opinion and distract
attention from real issues. Your comment
is proof that it was effective.
Vandals are like an act of god.
It is the police and their controllers
who let those hooligans do whatever they
came there to do. 
The blame is ultimately on
us for electing this government.


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## mauve

But after thinking a little more I suddenly realized that, really, I don't really understand anything


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## Byronicle

Philip.Chan.92 said:


> safety of world leaders > safety of soccer players, also, the world leaders have much more enemies than soccer players lol.


Toronto protestors (that are majority University students who cannot and will not risk an expulsion if they get a criminal record) + innocent bystanders *<* Drunken soccer hooligans who will riot, shoot flares, trample others to death if their team loses, or worst to a rival where there is history between the teams

World leaders go to the game too, but who would assassinate Harper or Japan's leader? Maybe some Cheyna rebels might want to go after the Russian leader but other than that I can't see anything crazy going on

I've been in England when they lost to Portugal in the last World cup. There were riots, flipped cars, and every Portugal fan was hounded. I look somewhat Portuguese but I am not and for a few minutes, I honestly did feared for my life. If it cost a $100 million to contain hundreds of thousands of fans that could be ticked off at any minute, why would it cost $1 billion to stop some "protesters" from Toronto who I know a few, and they rather do things peacefully, whereas a few individuals went too far.


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## AquaNekoMobile

chip104 said:


> The rioters (not protestors) even smashed up Zanzibar - from that alone one can deduce that these rabble rousers are not from Toronto since no good denizen of this fine city would have brought upon any wrath to that well-known gentleman's club!


Isn't Zanzibar some all ages night club? The name rings a bell.


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## AquaNekoMobile

chip104 said:


> I agree. I was very supportive of the police - even after yesterday's blockading of Queen's Park - until I saw and read what happened today. Whether or not it was in retaliation for yesterday, I was disgusted. Those were legitimate protesters, not rioters. Kettling and bull-rushing them was unnecessary and deplorable.
> 
> I'm pretty sure McGuinty already feels that his days are numbered due to his ever growing laissez faire attitude - e-health, HST, and the more recent OPWPA amendment.


Hmm... that video dot dot dot.... I'm going to have to wait for the explaination on why the cops charged what 'appeared' to be a rather peaceful protest. Whoever was filming that had the best vantage point and close enough to see what was going on.

The protesters did not appear to be armed with another other then signs but still a 2x4 can do some damage if stuck on an unprotected part of the body and all the cops down there are in riot gear with trama plates so that 2x4 in the chest won't really faze them.

I heard something that sounded like a echo clicking in a way. The sound similar to anyone that has fired a low PSI round before out of a tube with that hollow 'pwoof' sound. Does anyone know if the cops were armed with co2 powered guns with rubber rounds or pepper shot rounds? Thinking more on it now could it be that the front line was beating the riot shields with thier batons/asps? The video does not have a close enough look to see if it was the shield beating sound or if the back line was firing some gas powered rounds.

Another reason to buy yourself a gas mask if you're living downtown. The mask itself is very stable and hardly goes bad. It's the canister cartridge that has a shelf life IIRC. Buy Israeli if you can. If anything they know gas attacks in that region. Now where to get active recent or current issue cartridages is another story as you can't pick that up at you local 7-11 but still better then nothing if they decide to fog the downtown and anyone without one becomes a carpet bug while you GTFO from the area. My understanding is therei s a NATO standard now on gas masks so a canister from one part of the world is adaptable in another part of the world.


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## Cypher

Sack that sumbitches mcguire and blair, but only after the crowd gets to tar and feather them!!!!!!!!! Heads must roll!!!!!!!!!! No justice, no freedom! (lol).


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## arktixan

Meh cops did their job, imo. sure a little over paid on the security... but it worked... did the protestors get near the fence? as far I heard no they didn't. Which is what was suppose to happen.... I was listening to the Edge this morning and the people who called in were absolutely priceless I couldnt stop laughing and had no sympathy for them... 

They said... if you are a tourist or want to be a 'spectater' where the protest/riot will happen, stay out, you will risk detainment or that temp prison they had.

As the radio guys said today... If ME a dog owner, tells you, I have a vicious dog do not enter the house.... Will you? if you do and get bit, who's fault is it? 

It was a miseley what 2 days pretty much? 3 at most if you really want to count friday which I really no do not.


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## Cypher

So now, police have the intelligence of k9's? So when did dogs develop the ability to think, judge and learn about civil liberties and LAW? Yeah, well cops are supposed to have been taught about those. Maybe, you're right, and these cops have the intelligence of dogs, in which case, they shouldn't even be in the line of work meant TO PROTECT CIVILIANS AND UPHOLD THE LAW. Cops definitely broke the very law they were supposed to be protecting on sunday. Ask any lawyer.

In fact, if these cops and their 'handlers' do have a dog's intelligence, they should be sent to War. Nothing new, bad match of talent and job - typically government employees.


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## Cypher

That begs to question... when civilians break the law, they go to jail or get fined. So what's supposed to happen when 1 cop breaks the law? How about a group of cops? 

Are law enforcement personnel above the law? How just is our version of the 'justice' system? 

What happened on sunday reverberates deeper than some think IMO. Harper wants Canada and the west to be an example, a beacon of democracy, justice and freedom. 

WHERE THE FCUK IS THE JUSTICE Steven? He wants to lead but all he's doing is making himself and this country look like an a**. Freedom? What the frak happened to free speech?


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## Byronicle

I just read in the newspaper...

1) UofT student union is hosting many out of town protesters
2) Barack Obama approves of Canada's latest police actions...is this the change he has been talking about? Because if anything, Harper is changing into Bush


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## Octavian

I believe the police did not do enough. When people started damaging property and burning cars they should have been sent in asap. Too bad that the message(s) of the legitimate protestors was/were overshadowed by idiots who only wanted to cause damage.



> Cops definitely broke the very law they were supposed to be protecting on sunday. Ask any lawyer.


What law did they break? People were asked to disperse and leave... those that didn't got what was coming to them. Btw, they were granted powers by the provincial government to arrest people who didn't identify themselves or leave if they were near the security zone. I rather they arrest people, clear that mess of human idiots and let the courts deal with it all at a later date then have people running around with the potential of causing damage to property like they did on Saturday.



> In fact, if these cops and their 'handlers' do have a dog's intelligence, they should be sent to War. Nothing new, bad match of talent and job - typically government employees.


Exactly what do you mean by this? Is this your own type of justice? Are you implying that people with the intelligience of a dog should be sent to war to be killed off?? You speak of the injustice by the police yet want people to be sent to war. Your sense of justice seems a little warped.



> Are law enforcement personnel above the law? How just is our version of the 'justice' system?


Actually, the justice system favours the wealthy over the poor most of the time. Its been like this in the past and will be like this in the future. Get used to it. Stay out of trouble and you won't have any issues.



> 2) Barack Obama approves of Canada's latest police actions...is this the change he has been talking about? Because if anything, Harper is changing into Bush


Harper changing into Bush?? Hidden agenda maybe?? Can you cite examples. Broad statements like this are useless and have no meaning unless you can show examples. Sounds like the usual propaganda from the leftist side.

NDP are useless as a party and will never have federal power.

The Liberals have a leader who can't make up his mind about current issues. Also, you have liberal party members calling our troops war criminals for turning over enemy combatants to Afghan authorities.

At least Harper lowered taxes, has restored funding to the military, wants to bring in tougher legislation for criminals and wants to scrap the useless gun registry which was another useless expensive liberal program. All these initiatives are being stonewalled by liberals and the bloc quebecois. Also, forgot to mention the liberals and NDP wanted to form a political alliance with the bloc quebecois (people who want to break up the country) to gain power in the last election.

!! Have a great day !!


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## Cory

My feelings on this summit are a bit mixed. I do see the benefit a summit like this can bring in the larger world sense (a sense which is lost on most of us as it doesn't *appear* to affect our day to day lives) however, I don't know why it had to be held in Toronto of all places. Yes, the infrastructure was already there, but some of the cost likely saved on policing the event, had it been elsewhere, could have been spent improving the state of things elsewhere. I don't see the value in essentially shutting down the country's economic heart and giving vandals more, bigger targets to destroy. 

In this day and age, these types of conferences can easily be done over video phone, and it's not as if world leaders have no other opportunity to meet one another. Whatever benefit is gained by hosting a world spectacle (eg. the shanghai expo this year) aside, the work actually accomplished in this short summit was minimal. Nothing of substance could have come out of a brief meeting and nothing did. Dignitaries and their families and entourages however did enjoy Canada's finest behind a big fence. 

That said, I'm ashamed to see the way people are slamming on the police in this situation. I wish folks had a concept of how hard it is to police these types of events or what sort of circumstances actually existed. There is no way the police could have prevented that many determined hooligans from vandalizing something. Given the havoc that ensued at other summits, which included bombs and deaths I think we came out pretty well here. This was only possible because the police pro-actively arrested people before they could do damage. Sometimes that might mean innocent people get hassled but that is the price we pay for any measure of security. You cannot have 100% security and 100% liberty in any society and anyone who thinks you can is misguided. You have to choose whether you'd rather run the risk of being searched and possibly detained, or run the risk of being blown up by a vandal without a cause. Not much of a choice for me. This of course, is assuming that the innocent people were even that innocent. I doubt the police gave no warning and then just charged. My guess is they ignored warnings and as others said, got what was coming to them. 

I don't see why any of the protests at all were legitimate though. What is special about the g20 summit that makes it a free for all protest bonanza? Sure, 20 of the world's most powerful leaders were in Toronto, but they were too far away to even see the signs or hear the chants and the protesters knew as much so why bother other than to harass the citizens of the city? More than that, if so many of these people are as impoverished as they claim to be, why are they taking air planes to Canada and time off work (assuming any of them have jobs) to shout and scream at people? Useless rhetoric can be hurled aloud at home. 

What gets me even more is the way so many of these anarchist and unionist groups co-opted the lgbt cause as a sort of tack on to try and add legitimacy to their protests in Canada's most gay friendly city. From what I've seen the gay community is up in arms about it, most of them not wanting to be remotely associated with these causes or this type of protest. It is shameful. 

I could go on but it'd be going off topic and probably get too contentious, especially for a fish forum. I will however say that this disruption to our lives didn't need to happen and everything could have been accomplished just as well elsewhere.


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## mauve

That weekend showed that "humanitarian" Canada is not immune from slipping into a police state. 
The scary fact is that, clearly, there were so many brutal human rights violations, and in such a way that if it were in some other country, Canada would probably voice all kinds of "outcries". 
They were arresting just citizens who were NOT DOING ANYTHING ILLEGAL!, hell, most of the arrested "protesters" didn't do anything illegal. 

I am not even talking about the police. 

It is the directive of the true vandals, who vandalized out schools, hospitals and OUR wallets by spending such crazy money on this useless spectacle in Toronto.

All we see on TV is what media wants us to see and make according conclusions, which are, sadly, made by around 77% of Canadians.


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## TBemba

Look at how out of hand it got with looters

story of guy being a vigilante 

was it right what he did?


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