# Food for thought! Pretty sad stuff.



## 12273 (Nov 3, 2012)

I was curious as to how the impact of our hobby has on the worlds oceans.

We humans seem to love raping nature and I'm rethinking what I put in my tank and from where.

Support our wildlife and buy fish and coral from other hobbyist first . And if it's tank raised even better.

Here's a couple links 

http://www.wildlifeextra.com/go/news/aquarium-fish-death.html#cr

http://www.scientificamerican.com/a...saltwater-fish-tank-may-be-killing-the-ocean/

There's a lot more info on google should someone choose to read up on the subject

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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

“In the end we will conserve only what we love; we will love only what we understand; and we will understand only what we have been taught.”

― Baba Dioum

While it would be ideal for humans to live in complete harmony with nature, that is simply not a realistic aspect of human nature. Ultimately, the most effective way to get everyone (not just some people) to care about nature is to get them to love nature in the first place.


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## darkangel66n (May 15, 2013)

While I may believe that we play a small roll in this, I do not believe it is as bad as those articles make it out to be. Having said that though I do believe that when a fish is able to be produced in captivity the wild import of said fish should become highly regulated with very limited numbers of them being allowed in and only to diversify the genetic pool of captive bred specimens. Perfect examples are mandarin's and sea horses. ORA for example has given up on mandarins from what I understand because wild caught are so much cheaper. We need to change that. No wild fish when captive bred are available.


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

From the first article:



> LWWF-Philippines now works on practical solutions for a sustainable marine aquarium trade. Its initial recommendations are the following:
> 
> 1.	Avoid hard-to-keep fish, especially cleaner wrasses, mandarin dragonets, Moorish idols and all types of seahorses. Mortality rates for these fish are estimated at 99% so it is best to ban them entirely.
> 2.	Promote hardy fish. Many of the world's most successful aquaria feature hardy but still colourful clownfish, damsels, gobies, wrasses and surgeonfish. Survival rates are far better and hobbyists end up spending much less for upkeep and stock replacement.
> ...


It doesn't sound like the people who issued those recommendations are very knowledgeable about the hobby themselves.


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

darkangel66n said:


> While I may believe that we play a small roll in this, I do not believe it is as bad as those articles make it out to be. Having said that though I do believe that when a fish is able to be produced in captivity the wild import of said fish should become highly regulated with very limited numbers of them being allowed in and only to diversify the genetic pool of captive bred specimens. Perfect examples are mandarin's and sea horses. ORA for example has given up on mandarins from what I understand because wild caught are so much cheaper. We need to change that. No wild fish when captive bred are available.


Actually, if managed sustainably, selling wild-caught fish can be more beneficial for the environment than breeding them in captivity.

http://www.boston.com/yourtown/news/allston_brighton/2011/03/from_tank_or_wild_small_fish_s.html

Granted, the cardinal tetra is helped by its abundance and natural life cycle, but if 80% of the fish die before they are sold, then that tells me we can make a lot of difference by improving in the way those fish are captured (cyanide, ugh!) and transported.


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## 12273 (Nov 3, 2012)

Good stuff folks! I don't wanna start WWIII here so let's keep things on the professional, courteous and respectful side of things. I know this causes quite some debate and please let's keep this clean, helpful and to promote some knowledge . 

It is sad when I wander into a store and see that the tanks are filled with dead, dying and diseased fish. And at the end of the day I realistically don't see those fish lasting long. Between collection, transport being housed in filth and crammed in tanks. Bought by hobbyists. It's amazing that any of these little guys make it safe and sound. Only to die because of a ice storm  or whatever the case may be. 

Why is it that only humans can't co exist with ANYTHING. If you could pretend that the earth was a fish tank WE would be the ultimate pest and nobody would want us in the tank. We would be like a super ich mixed with some sort of toxin LOL. We pollute this earth to no end and destroy life, earth and environment in almost every thing we do on a daily basis. 

Don't get me wrong here. In guilty just as most of us are. Gas guzzling SUV, wasteful and create my foot print for sure! I'm just really starting to take the blinders off and it's interesting to learn about every aspect of a hobby or passion 


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

aquaman1 said:


> Good stuff folks! I don't wanna start WWIII here so let's keep things on the professional, courteous and respectful side of things. I know this causes quite some debate and please let's keep this clean, helpful and to promote some knowledge .
> 
> It is sad when I wander into a store and see that the tanks are filled with dead, dying and diseased fish. And at the end of the day I realistically don't see those fish lasting long. Between collection, transport being housed in filth and crammed in tanks. Bought by hobbyists. It's amazing that any of these little guys make it safe and sound. Only to die because of a ice storm  or whatever the case may be.
> 
> ...


I don't believe humans are any different from other animals when it comes to our role in the ecosystem. It's a myth that other animals somehow instinctively know to live in harmony with their ecosystem.

In reality, a complex dynamic of feast or famine, predation, and disease keeps animal populations in check. Any species that becomes too successful would also cause the collapse of their ecosystem. The more successful the species, the more catastrophic the eventual collapse. If we are unique in anything, it is that we are at least somewhat aware of the consequences of our actions on the environment and seek to redress that imbalance. We haven't quite achieved a balance yet, but we've managed to stem off the collapse so far.

Back to our hobby, I would support a legislation that limits the number of ornamental fish that can be harvested each year. I believe Hawaii has something like that. Unfortunately, as that first article says, most of the exports come from third-world countries where a host of factors would render such legislation extremely unlikely.

Meanwhile, I believe the best thing we can do on our end is to educate newcomers to the hobby so that we can minimize fish casualties.


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## Flameangel (Sep 25, 2013)

The Filipino who wrote this recommendations had to first stop those Filipino fishermen from using dynamites to catch fish coz those people are destroying the corals from underneath the ocean not to mention other sessile forms of life.
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/blog/dynamite-fishing-in-asia-video


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## TankCla (Dec 31, 2010)

Flameangel said:


> The Filipino who wrote this recommendations had to first stop those Filipino fishermen from using dynamites to catch fish coz those people are destroying the corals from underneath the ocean not to mention other sessile forms of life.


+1:


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## Bayinaung (Feb 24, 2012)

Flameangel said:


> The Filipino who wrote this recommendations had to first stop those Filipino fishermen from using dynamites to catch fish coz those people are destroying the corals from underneath the ocean not to mention other sessile forms of life.


yeah just stop importing fish from there until they change their methods. Or buy from collectors who use the most humane methods, although that will be hard - I think exporters are not collectors but wholesalers who are buying the fish from fishermen or from aquarium trade markets so there's no way of knowing what methods were used to catch them.


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## 50seven (Feb 14, 2010)

If the Canadian customs will require all overseas marine fish imports to be MAC certified, it would be a start. As a libertarian I cringe in saying this, but as a moral being I understand the need for guidelines and principles.

Change happens slowly in these things, but hopefully not too slowly...

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## Flameangel (Sep 25, 2013)

50seven said:


> If the Canadian customs will require all overseas marine fish imports to be MAC certified, it would be a start. As a libertarian I cringe in saying this, but as a moral being I understand the need for guidelines and principles.
> 
> Change happens slowly in these things, but hopefully not too slowly...
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


The question is who and when will it start solidly until perhaps the damage is irrepairable?


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