# 25 Gallon Cube SILENT OVERFLOW HELP!



## duckhams (Oct 13, 2009)

Ive decided to start a new build. A rimless 25 gallon cube, custom stand and sump. Ive looked at all kinds of overflows but have no idea which way to go. 
I have a center overflow in the garage from an older tank, but it was really noisy. So what do you guys suggest for a quite (silent would be good) overflow? 

1. I spend the money and get a bean animal overflow added to the tank. 
2. Go with the center overflow I have and try to make it quiet. 
3. Your suggestions please. 

I have a glass hole saw for my hand drill (for 3/4" bulkheads), and im comfortable drilling a few holes myself. 

Im relatively new to the overflow/sump setups, so any advice would be a huge help. Pictures are worth their weight in gold! (im a visual learner). 

Thanks again.


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## fesso clown (Nov 15, 2011)

I am currently trying to make this decision myself. I have been looking at The Bean Animal too, there is also the Herbie method that is similar to the Bean Animal except generally the overflow "box" or weir is not coast to coast like the Bean Animal and is missing the 3rd safety drain.

Check out the "herbie" here, and if you search it there are loads of build threads for it on various other forums.

http://marine-engineers.org/2011/07/05/the-herbie-overflow/

Also check out this one here on GTAA, similar to your size...
http://gtaaquaria.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22381&highlight=drill

Not sure what I am going to do yet, I like the coast to coast weir(i think thats what the box is called) as they provide much better surface skimming but in a small tank they take up a lot of space. If I go with the coast to coast I may drill for the 3rd safety pipe of the Bean Animal, If I go with a smaller middle weir box I may only drill for 2 pipes and do the Herbie method.

Keep this thread going and let us know how you're proceeding... I am following along... good timing on your post for me!


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## duckhams (Oct 13, 2009)

I haven't looked into the Herbie method too deeply, I'll check that out. I think the science behind the Bean Animal overflow is fairly sound (or silent haha). 
I have seen the bean animal method used without going coast to coast. Running the return lines can be tricky with a coast to coast. I think if I went that route, I would shorten it and leave space either end for the return lines.

I will do a little thread on the setup once ive got it all planned out and ready to setup. Thanks for the help and suggestions, keep them coming.


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

I suggest you go to Reefcentral.com and have a look there. there are many threads on this issue from the professional guys

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## duckhams (Oct 13, 2009)

Thats where I found BeanAnimal, and his design. The application is perfect, but implementation and cost are the other 2 factors I have to consider. As its only a 25 gallon cube, im short on space and aesthetics is important. 
Id love to see how others have theirs setup.


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## Windowlicka (Mar 5, 2008)

Go with the beananimal approach. It literally is ~silent~.

I have a completely submerged main drain, and a standpipe on the failover drain. Balancing the rate of flow with ball valves took a little time, but after a little effort, I don't have any gurgle down the drains, nor splashing as water enters the overflow, and it's been "set and forget"

Let me know if you ever happen to be in/around Aurora - I'd be happy to show-off!!


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

I used Herbie on the 3 tanks and when the hole on the top (for air) is the proper size is dead silent and piping will cost nothing. You also survive without overflow box, but will lose on skimming

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## duckhams (Oct 13, 2009)

Thanks for the input Windowlicka! You know im going to ask for a pic! Is your setup in-tank or external? 

Sig, Im still looking at the Herbie, but I dont think its going to be in my list of options. The bean animal seems fail-safe and you know what they say, "silence is golden". =)


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## Windowlicka (Mar 5, 2008)

I'm not sure if there are any pics in my thread ("dang it"), if not, I'll take pics this evening and post them here...

I can't take credit for the design of this tank though - I bought it used, and had no idea about the drains until I plumbed them in.... The roar of silence when the drains were dialled-in was a VERY pleasant & welcome surprise!

Edit: external - via coast-to-coast overflow. (2x 1.5" drains, 1x 1" return that tee's below the tank, and returns back through the overflow and over the back of the tank). Pump is a Tunze 1073.040 (rated for up to 792 gal/hr)


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## fesso clown (Nov 15, 2011)

Windowlicka said:


> Go with the beananimal approach. It literally is ~silent~.
> Balancing the rate of flow with ball valves took a little time, but after a little effort,


From what I have read Lots of people are using a gate valve instead of a ball valve to make the balancing easier... cost a little more though.


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## Windowlicka (Mar 5, 2008)

fesso clown said:


> From what I have read Lots of people are using a gate valve instead of a ball valve to make the balancing easier... cost a little more though.


In hindsight, that would have been a very smart move. Fine tweaking with ball valves is a PITA


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## Y2KGT (Jul 20, 2009)

I posted a similar question on Aquarium Pros last year and the overwhelming response was the Herbie Method was dead silent.

http://www.aquariumpros.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=43773&highlight=
--
Paul


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## duckhams (Oct 13, 2009)

Correct me if im wrong, but doesn't the bean animal method have a better fail safe.


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## Windowlicka (Mar 5, 2008)

duckhams said:


> Correct me if im wrong, but doesn't the bean animal method have a better fail safe.


Honestly? Not sure! *i'm* satisfied with the fail safe capability on my current tank. We had a failure (albeit not drain related) 2 years ago, ending with soaked floors, walls, a $30k insurance claim and a 100% dead tank, which is why we sold off our stuff back then.

This new tank has inspired much more confidence in us. Is one better than the other? No idea, and frankly I'm not in a position to argue - I have no experience with the herbie method.

I can tell you it's silent, and with the second complete set of drains available, then something really catastrophic has to happen before the second drain also fails.


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## Windowlicka (Mar 5, 2008)

Pics of the overflow/drains/sump. 

Sorry - not easy to snap many shots of the drains - walls keep getting in the way.


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

Herbie is fail safe as long as you ensure that your safety overflow can handle the full water volume.

I run a herbie on my tank now and it works great. My backup is a durso which I tested to ensure it can handle the water volume if the herbie clogs 100%. (I don't trust my math...) 

I would suggest using a gate valve if your sump is close to your tank. If there is large head height, you can use a ball valve with no problems. This just makes adjusting easier and is not 100% necessary.

Ensure you put unions around the gate valve, or use a union ball valve so that you can periodically service either or.


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

Windowlicka said:


> In hindsight, that would have been a very smart move. Fine tweaking with ball valves is a PITA


Ball valves are not designed for any tweaking. They should work in full open mode, specially under presser.
You can use them on drain in half closed position, but not good idea on the return line.
I seen ball valve, which has just half ball remains after it was used for 2 years to regulate return

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## duckhams (Oct 13, 2009)

Chris S said:


> Herbie is fail safe as long as you ensure that your safety overflow can handle the full water volume.
> 
> I run a herbie on my tank now and it works great. My backup is a durso which I tested to ensure it can handle the water volume if the herbie clogs 100%. (I don't trust my math...)
> 
> ...


Good advice on the unions. I hadn't thought of that. I will have about 5ft headroom, but either way, a gate valve will make life easier. (that being said, I may just use the ball valves I have already and see how it goes. I'll probably regret it.


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## duckhams (Oct 13, 2009)

sig said:


> Ball valves are not designed for any tweaking. They should work in full open mode, specially under presser.
> You can use them on drain in half closed position, but not good idea on the return line.
> I seen ball valve, which has just half ball remains after it was used for 2 years to regulate return


Good call on the return line gate valve.

Im looking at running an internal/glass over flow box for the bean animal setup running horizontally out the back. I will leave some space either side to run my return lines. 
Im just going to have to calculate the amount of flow on the siphon to the sump, so that I can match the return pump to it. Any suggestions on how to do that accurately with 3/4" ID drain lines.


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## Windowlicka (Mar 5, 2008)

duckhams said:


> Good call on the return line gate valve.
> 
> Im looking at running an internal/glass over flow box for the bean animal setup running horizontally out the back. I will leave some space either side to run my return lines.
> Im just going to have to calculate the amount of flow on the siphon to the sump, so that I can match the return pump to it. Any suggestions on how to do that accurately with 3/4" ID drain lines.


RC has an app for that(!):

http://www.reefcentral.com/index.php/drainoverflow-size-calc


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## duckhams (Oct 13, 2009)

Windowlicka said:


> RC has an app for that(!):
> 
> http://www.reefcentral.com/index.php/drainoverflow-size-calc


On a 25 gallon cube, I dont need a lot of flow through the sump. I could get away with 1/2" ID full siphon drain line with a 3/4" ID fail safe line. That would give me around 650gph on the siphon through the sump! Whoa!

Can I still get a full siphon if I only have a small return pump, or do I need a 650gph return pump for it to work. I dont want to blast the tank. its only 18x18x16.


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## altcharacter (Jan 10, 2011)

sig said:


> Ball valves are not designed for any tweaking. They should work in full open mode, specially under presser.
> You can use them on drain in half closed position, but not good idea on the return line.
> I seen ball valve, which has just half ball remains after it was used for 2 years to regulate return


This happens with marriage also Greg...after two hears I had half a ball left also!!


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## duckhams (Oct 13, 2009)

altcharacter said:


> This happens with marriage also Greg...after two hears I had half a ball left also!!


Having half left, or both in your wife's handbag. I'll take half left please.

Also guys, I found this thread. This is the basic idea of what im going for as to the design of the overflow and returns. Nemosworld did a great job, I might tidy up the plumbing a little (to keep the wife happy, yes mine are both in her handbag) but this is the gist of it.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2025560


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## duckhams (Oct 13, 2009)

This is the general idea. Tell me if you guys see any issues with this so far. (its very very basic). 

Im thinking of using an Eheim 1250 (300gph) as a return pump. Or a RIO 1400 (420gph), because they are so stinking cheap. 

What are your thoughts?


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## altcharacter (Jan 10, 2011)

Looks good! I'm using the Eheim 1250 right now in my 20g setup and love it. The Rio was just too loud for me.


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## duckhams (Oct 13, 2009)

altcharacter said:


> Looks good! I'm using the Eheim 1250 right now in my 20g setup and love it. The Rio was just too loud for me.


Awesome, thanks for the info! Eheim is it!


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## fury165 (Aug 21, 2010)

I use the Herbie method with my overflow and outlet to the sump fully submerged for 100 percent silent overflow. I also use a gate valve on my full siphon ( my return is tuned using the tunze pump's electronically controlled flow). also tested that my sump can handle loss of power and subsequent backflow.


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## duckhams (Oct 13, 2009)

I have a 700 gph (i think, cant be more than that) overflow in my garage from an old tank. If I were to put this on my 25 gallon cube, with a 300-350 gph return pump and slip a 1/2" tube down the drain, would this be near silent? Its an 1 1/4" bulkhead on the back. 

It would be a lot less water flowing down than the drain is meant to handle, which should lessen the overall noise. Its cheap, ive already got it, its simple, its not the beananimal genius, but its an option. 

What do you guys think? Is it going to be a noise machine?


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## duckhams (Oct 13, 2009)

I was going to have a custom tank built by Miracles (thanks to Derek for his help). But the Mr. Aqua 25 gallon seems to be exactly what im looking for. 

Anyone have experience with the Mr. Aqua tanks? are they any good?


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## duckhams (Oct 13, 2009)

Mr Aqua Tanks? anyone? what overflows are your running? Is it quiet?


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