# Water Changers



## Bill22 (Jan 21, 2017)

Isn't the expectation of a 25% daily water change a little overboard as general daily aquarium care? I would think this might be necessary if one had a problem in the tank chemistry but as regular maintenance this seems a little overboard. I am about to cycle a 65 tall and was planning on a 5% change every other day once fish are added.


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## planter (Jun 9, 2008)

If you are cycling then it's not unheard of to change that much water per day. Keeping ammonia and nitrite levels safe is what counts. After that it all depends on your tank size and your bio load. More water and less fish means less waterchanges. I've had tanks where I've gone a month without changing the water without any issues while others like my discus tank I change over 50 percent per day as I'm growing them out right now.


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## infolific (Apr 10, 2016)

Bill22 said:


> Isn't the expectation of a 25% daily water change a little overboard as general daily aquarium care?


I haven't read that the expectation is 25% daily. Where did you read that?



Bill22 said:


> I am about to cycle a 65 tall and was planning on a 5% change every other day once fish are added.


Is there a particular reason why you're doing a small amount so frequently? I think this works out to about a single 15% water change once a week.


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## Fisheye (Jan 13, 2015)

Hi Bill22,

Are you cycling a bare tank or do you have anything like plants, substrate and driftwood in there? Are you starting with virgin filter media or have you seeded it somehow?

Unless you are feeding the bacteria in some way then just changing out 5 percent every other day is perhaps a waste of time and water.

Do you have a reliable way to test the water before adding fish? (liquid reagent over strips for example)

My last question is...what fish are you getting???(the best part!)

J


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## Bill22 (Jan 21, 2017)

infolific said:


> I haven't read that the expectation is 25% daily. Where did you read that?
> 
> Is there a particular reason why you're doing a small amount so frequently? I think this works out to about a single 15% water change once a week.


Planter just let us know he was doing 50% changes? Others I read are all over the map.

And the answer to the second question is simply ease and convenience on top of the fact that smaller changes in water on a more frequent basis seems to me to be a better way to stabilize water conditions.

Due to unforeseen circumstances cycling has been delayed so thanks for your responses.

Sand, 
65 gal tall, 
no fish cycle with plants & driftwood 
API test kit. 
Along with the biological filter contents I will be using sphagnum moss to soften the water and make it a tad more acidic.
Plants planned - easy ones like many Anubias, some of the taller Crypts and Java Fern.
Fish planned :- Serpae 12, Dwarf Corys 6, one of Cardinals or Neons ~20


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## Andre7 (Jan 25, 2017)

> I change over 50 percent per day as I'm growing them out right now.


Planter is growing out discus, which need pristine water conditions especially as juveniles to grow them to maximum size. Pristine water conditions allow any fish to grow better and faster, but with a 'high-end' fish like Discus this becomes a priority (in addition to their high sensitivity to poor water conditions).



> smaller changes in water on a more frequent basis seems to me to be a better way to stabilize water conditions.


This may be true, I'm not sure. I would think that as long as there is ammonia available, the bacteria will grow, so as long as you're not doing 50% or more it should be fine. I might even thing that extremely high levels of ammonia might inhibit growth of the beneficial bacteria... I also find it easier to change more water less frequently because I don't have to prepare equipment, fresh water, etc. as often, but this of course depends on your own setup.


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## Bill22 (Jan 21, 2017)

I should have posted this earlier it might have helped your responses. 

Tap water API test:

Ph high 8.2
Ammonia ...best I can tell between 1.0 & 2.0
Nitrite .5
Nitrite 0

As as aside I kept discus 40+ years ago. After re-introducing myself to starting up an aquarium, I read this forum for a couple of months before I joined and made my mind up to do it again after all these years. I wonder how the heck I kept them alive for so long. This cycling, water changes and maintenance has been an eye opener for sure.

I guess I get very confused when I read all for the different % water changes different people comment on from time to time.

I do understand the need to maintain a goodly amount of ammonia in the early cycle until the bacteria changes the tank chemistry. I also like the proper nitrate level controls to control algae growth

This time I thought I'd just stick with a simple tetra tank, easy to maintain. I really don't want to get into steady tank temps of 82-84 for discus. Although I would love to have them.

I guess my biggest problem will be getting a favourable Ph level for the Tetras which prefer slightly acidic water.

Thanks for your help.


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## planter (Jun 9, 2008)

Most tetras you find at the local fish stores will do fine within a ride range of ph so long as it's stable and that they are acclimated properly. You don't need to shoot for a specific number unless you are trying to do something specific like breed them. That being said, it's always good to do some research on the specific fish you want and ask others who keep/kept them their experience keeping them.

Most folk's here try to keep their tank parameters at a safe level once the tank is cycled.

NH4- 0
NO2 - 0
N03 - 30 pmm or less. some prefer lower some are higher 

The amount of water and number of changes per week/month will depend on the type of fish, tank size, amount of feeding's.... etc. There is no golden rule on how often one needs to do water change. 

Hope this helps


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## Fisheye (Jan 13, 2015)

Hi Bill22,

I kind of read your OP wrong...anyway, thank you providing additional information regarding your setup.

Have you checked out aqadvisor.com? That is a really helpful tool to help you flesh out your setup taking tank size, filter capacity and stocking levels into consideration. I don't think that site was up and running when you last kept fish.

As others have said, there are no hard and fast rules as per water changes. Probably the key is to consider what works for your schedule and stick to that to maintain stable parameters. 

Low nitrates aren't then only factor to consider to keep algae at bay. Mine test at 5ppm and I'm currently dealing with some staghorn and green dust. Photoperiod, phosphates in water source, over feeding, over crowing, lack of co2 injection and introducing plants other than tissue cultured are all contributors to algae growth. It's not uncommon to battle that beast in a new setup either.

+1 on keeping PH stable rather than going for a specific number. Whatever moss you use will lose buffering capacity over time and PH swings will not do your fish any favours. Maybe see what others do with combining tap water and RO. But again, your suggested stocking scheme really doesn't warrant monkeying with PH. Save the money and the aggro.

Have fun.

Jackie


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## Bill22 (Jan 21, 2017)

> out aqadvisor.com? . I don't think that site was up and running when you last kept fish.


Ha you're darn right about that.Wish I could come up with a cute comeback.

So according to the site I'm doing okay with 'bioload' (impressed yet?), number of fish and to my surprise a recommended 18% weekly water change which is within my management capabilities and also to be determined if needed.

Point noted regarding Ph Planter and Jackie. Tap water will be well above the Ph range readings for these fish but with your responses I still feel I'd like it below 8 at least. I figure a bunch of it in fine cheesecloth in the filter changed once a week and test what happens while I'm cycling for 3-4+ weeks to see what works.

The plant challenge will be the first one I tackle as they will be in the tank from the start. The additional info on the algae control was good too.

Thanks all.


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

One nice thing about plants is that they can be very helpful with cycling generally. They contribute some bacteria, they consume ammonia and later on, they consume some nitrates too.

How much water to change can often be a personal choice but there certainly are widely varying recommendations for them, all over the place. The average I tend to see is either 25% biweekly for light loads, or weekly for higher bioloads. But I tend to favour doing larger changes in a stocked and fully cycled tank than the average, about 50% weekly. It's worked very well for me.

Fresh clean water is always the best friend a fish will ever have, especially when living in a box. Dilution reduces pollution - that's my basic motto. I rarely lose livestock to anything but age or the odd accident, such as jumping out.

If possible, getting some filter squeezings from a mature healthy filter, to pour into your filter, will jump start the cycle quickly. It will provide large numbers of the desired bacteria directly to your filter media, making for much shorter cycle times. I've cycled a small tank in a day or two this way, for modest bioloads. 

People often worry about getting the right pH, but for many species, simply being somewhere near 7 is fine, provided it remains stable. Stability is far more important than achieving some arbitrary number. There are some species where it is more critical to get it spot on but whatever it is, stability is key. Do not allow changes in pH to happen quickly. A change of more than 1 full point in less than 24 hours is potentially fatal to fish.

pH does affect the speed of cycling because of the effect it has on the efficiency of the filter bacteria. Based on laboratory testing, the filter bacteria we rely on work at their full efficiency at pH 8.3. By the time you get to pH 7, they're at 50% efficiency; by pH 6.5, about 25% and at pH 6, they're pretty much dormant.

Fortunately, ammonia is much less of a problem at pH 6, because in an acid pH ammonia will be mostly in the form of nontoxic NH4, or ammonium. Most test kits do not tell you if it is NH3 or NH4, giving a 'total' reading instead, though Seachem's ammonia test does. But NH4 quickly converts to the highly toxic NH3 form as pH rises over 7. Temperatures affect ammonia levels too, they're higher with warmer water as does the time of day. Ammonia readings are lowest just before dawn, highest at mid-afternoon. 

So the fastest cycling times tend to occur in tanks running with rather high temps of 86F or more), which favours bacterial growth, a pH over 8 and reasonably good lighting during the day. Plants also speed it up some. Overall, those conditions aren't especially favourable for many fish, which is why you so often see advice to do fishless cycling. To speed things up once fish are in the tank, the only good way I know is to add filter squeezings or media from a mature filter.

One other thing to think about. A problem many keepers run into is that of parasitic infestations, like Ich. Ich is very common on fish farms and even the best shops have next to no control over it. The best they can do is treat when they see it and not sell infected fish until they are cleared. Always check for it and do not buy infected fish.

But, my point is that we should always have a QT for new fish. It can save much heartache and loss. If at all possible, every new fish and technically, even new plants, unless they are tissue cultured, should be kept in a quarantine tank for at least a month before going into your main tank. For plants, I think most of us skip QT, but at the least, thoroughy rinse and wash new plants in fairly warm ( 110 - 115 F )tap water before you add them to a tank. You'll help prevent the entry of such things as predatory insect larvae, snails, hydra and planaria, to name but a few. Inspect plants for snail egg clutches, which may look like tiny clear blobs, or yellowish gel patches on leaves or stems, which are simple to rub off if you find any. Also check for algae, which can easily hitch a ride.


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

I don't get why people recommend water changes during cycling.

Sure, if you're cycling with fish, then yeah, you want to do that to keep your fish alive. However, you shouldn't be cycling with fish in the first place.

If you're doing a fishless cycle, then water changes just prolong your cycle. You would actually want a lot of ammonia in your water to promote bacterial growth. Just don't go overboard.

If you're doing a silent cycle, then frequent water changes are unnecessary, provided your plants are doing well. A silent cycle is maintained just like a cycled tank, the only difference being the small bioload.


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## Bill22 (Jan 21, 2017)

I am relieved and thank you for the responses. The broad discussion on % water changes from one person to the next confused me.


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