# UVB Rays bothering goldfish?



## M.l.lloyd (Jun 28, 2010)

Hello. i have a 30 gal tank

it is occupied by my RES turtle and 8 goldfish

i took them from my sister when she no longer wanted them anymore..they just look like typical goldfish to me

they are about 2-3 inches

Anyway.i havea basking area made out of corkbark for my turtle to bask on and ever since i got the fish into my tank they have been hidding underneath the corkbark at ALL times..only coming out to eat

and they seem to be sluggish..they are just sitting there and floating looking laazy..

is it possible the uvb rays are bothering them?


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## Joeee (Apr 3, 2010)

M.l.lloyd said:


> Hello. i have a 30 gal tank
> 
> it is occupied by my RES turtle and 8 goldfish
> 
> ...


Turtle is going to eat the goldfish.

No, it isn't possible, or at least be very improbable. In nature, both RES and fish are exposed to UVA and UVB. There are two things that are most probable: 1. You put all the fish in at the same time, the bacteria in your filter is adjusting. Eight 2-3 inch goldfish should have quite a bit of influence on your biological filtration, in addition to the RES. How big is the RES? 2. The fish are afraid of the turtle (more likely it's fear of the turtle).


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## M.l.lloyd (Jun 28, 2010)

Joeee said:


> Turtle is going to eat the goldfish.
> 
> No, it isn't possible, or at least be very improbable. In nature, both RES and fish are exposed to UVA and UVB. There are two things that are most probable: 1. You put all the fish in at the same time, the bacteria in your filter is adjusting. Eight 2-3 inch goldfish should have quite a bit of influence on your biological filtration, in addition to the RES. How big is the RES? 2. The fish are afraid of the turtle (more likely it's fear of the turtle).


My res is only 3inches he hasnt even ate his first minnow yet...but i guess its possible

i have had them for nearly a week

and i have 2 aqua clear power filters.

Mini/20 Filter: for 5-20 gallon tanks 
Maximum Output: 378 L/hr (100 U.S. Gal./hr) 
Full Flow Control: 124 L/hr (33 U.S. Gal./hr) 
Power Consumption: 6 W 
Maximum Aquarium Capacity: 75 L (20 U.S. gal.)


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## Ciddian (Mar 15, 2006)

8 new goldies in a 30 gallon even with the filters, you might be experiencing a spike somewhere in ammonia or something for sure.

I agree 100% with Joeee, if you have a water test kit take a few tests and see what the parameters are. The fish probably also feel more secure under the cork bark for sure.


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## M.l.lloyd (Jun 28, 2010)

Unfortunatly 2 passed away today..

im going to switch them to my spare 10gal just untill i can figure whats going on or who knows it may become their permanent home..


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## Ciddian (Mar 15, 2006)

that would be even worse,.... i would go to wal mart or somewhere and pick up a big bin... get a good filter on there too.

as far as typical, what do you mean? fancy or feeder type? long or ball shaped? 

if they are long any koi like, they really should go into a pond somewhere. If they are fancys you dont really wanna have one in less than 20 gallons IMO. 

if you can't get them the space I would bring them to a LFS or give/sell them in the classifieds

I have two turtles myself. Both male and more than 5 inches long.. I don't feed or keep any fish in with them

HTH


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## Joeee (Apr 3, 2010)

Ciddian said:


> that would be even worse,.... i would go to wal mart or somewhere and pick up a big bin... get a good filter on there too.
> 
> as far as typical, what do you mean? fancy or feeder type? long or ball shaped?
> 
> ...


I didn't know you have turtles, what kind are they? If they're in the same tank, do you see any aggression between them?


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## Ciddian (Mar 15, 2006)

I have a RES and a Yellow cooter (I think). 

Yes, the RES tries to attack and mate with the Yellow and its not very nice. lol So they both have their own bins ATM. I am currently trying to convince my husband that I need to upgrade badly D:


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## Joeee (Apr 3, 2010)

Ciddian said:


> I have a RES and a Yellow cooter (I think).
> 
> Yes, the RES tries to attack and mate with the Yellow and its not very nice. lol So they both have their own bins ATM. I am currently trying to convince my husband that I need to upgrade badly D:


Again, just threaten to not sleep with him, I'm sure it'll work wonders.


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## M.l.lloyd (Jun 28, 2010)

I put them all in my 10gal overnight with a heater and a filter going and i woke up and they ALL DIED.

they looked like they had red blotchy spots on them..maybe a parasite?


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## Ciddian (Mar 15, 2006)

Looked something like this? Sadly is usually the sole result of too many fish in a way too small tank. Not really sure how else to express this to you.









http://www.missreeftank.net/images/disease/septicemia.jpg


> *Hemorrhagic septicemia
> *
> 
> *Caused by:* various bacteria such as Aeromonas, Pseudomonas, or Streptococcus.
> ...


If they were 'feeder' goldies they do not start their lives off fairly, Usually come in garbage bags with 500 fish or so. They stay in such cramped conditions and they are usually carriers of parasites. They don't fair too well most of the time unless they get proper care in time such as living in a nice pond or really large tank.

If your home got too warm they could have also suffered, they do not too do well when the water gets too warm, warm water tends to hold less O2


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## M.l.lloyd (Jun 28, 2010)

My sister had them in a 20gal with a 7 inch res..now that was overcrowded..and she had them for months..and no problems

as soon as i got them it went down hill..

they were not feeders im sure of it..

and no it didnt look much like that..

a few of them did seem to appear to have a parasite..it looked like little grains of salt


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## Ciddian (Mar 15, 2006)

Did they look like holes or large red bumps? Stress could have triggered an underlying issue.

Little grains of salt could have been the start of Ick.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ichthyophthirius_multifiliis

Typical behaviours of clinically infected fish include:

Anorexia (loss of appetite, refusing all food, with consequential wasting)
Rapid breathing
Hiding abnormally/ not schooling
Resting on the bottom
Flashing
Rubbing and scratching against objects


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## AquaNekoMobile (Feb 26, 2010)

M.l.lloyd said:


> My sister had them in a 20gal with a 7 inch res..now that was overcrowded..and she had them for months..and no problems
> 
> as soon as i got them it went down hill..
> 
> ...


20 gal standard or 20gal long tank? Std is 24" wide. Long is 30" wide.


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## Joeee (Apr 3, 2010)

M.l.lloyd said:


> My sister had them in a 20gal with a 7 inch res..now that was overcrowded..and she had them for months..and no problems
> 
> as soon as i got them it went down hill..
> 
> ...


That sounds extremely improbable to me, the general rule for turtles is for every 1 inch turtle, you need 10G of water. RES also have a tendency to eat almost anything they can, the only thing that I can imagine living with a turtle in such small quarters are zebra danios, common goldfish cannot swim fast enough to hinder the appetites of turtles.

Did the fish look like:
http://www.getahugetank.com/images/cometgoldfish.JPG

or 
http://www.fishpondinfo.com/rosyred1.jpg

or
http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/Portals/9/Images/fishing/fish/Fathead minnow by BZ.JPG


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## M.l.lloyd (Jun 28, 2010)

He never touched one of the fishs..my sister doesnt take proper care of her res she feeds him cat food and doesnt have a basking spot..

so dont be so sure its not possible to have him in a 20 gal ok


EDIT: first link looks like them spot on.

20 gal standard and ick sounds right =(


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## Ciddian (Mar 15, 2006)

M.l.lloyd said:


> He never touched one of the fishs..my sister doesnt take proper care of her res she feeds him cat food and doesnt have a basking spot..
> 
> so dont be so sure its not possible to have him in a 20 gal ok
> 
> ...


Yikes thats so sad... I wonder if her turtle is just too sick or its just to crammed to catch the fish. Healthy turtles would be all over fish in the tank.. Mine used to spend hours chasing them.


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## Joeee (Apr 3, 2010)

Ciddian said:


> Yikes thats so sad... I wonder if her turtle is just too sick or its just to crammed to catch the fish. Healthy turtles would be all over fish in the tank.. Mine used to spend hours chasing them.


My friend whose gradually improving the care of her turtle put in some zebra danios I gave her. She put them in a few weeks ago, like the first week of June and she doesn't feed the fish, the two turtles she put in still haven't caught it yet.


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## AquaNeko (Jul 26, 2009)

I believe I used to have a RES asI did have a turtle when I was younger. I remember it being slightly smaller then the size of the thumb. Anyways, just a flashback there as I did not really know what happened to that turtle.

Curious with the zebra danios in the tank are they there for extra visual entertainment for you or do they serve another purpose such as something the turtles can chase after for exercise?


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## Joeee (Apr 3, 2010)

AquaNeko said:


> I believe I used to have a RES asI did have a turtle when I was younger. I remember it being slightly smaller then the size of the thumb. Anyways, just a flashback there as I did not really know what happened to that turtle.
> 
> Curious with the zebra danios in the tank are they there for extra visual entertainment for you or do they serve another purpose such as something the turtles can chase after for exercise?


I gave her the danios because I didn't need them anymore. We wanted to feed them to her turtles but they don't seem to be interested in them enough.

I just thought of why the RES did not touch the goldfish:

No basking light, the only available basking lights that raise temperature (for a basking spot) are the UVA ones. UVA brings out natural behaviour in turtles, UVB is for vitamin D3. The turtles did not have the UVA to have the natural instinct to eat the goldfish.


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## M.l.lloyd (Jun 28, 2010)

I have been trying to rehome my sisters res for a while actually..she doesnt want him anymore "he messes up the tank" everytime it looks pretty etc.

my sister thinks hes ugly now as an "adult" he was cute as a baby of course..i gave him a basking dock a while back i had a spare and he can barely fit on it it sinks but its better then nothing..


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## Joeee (Apr 3, 2010)

M.l.lloyd said:


> I have been trying to rehome my sisters res for a while actually..she doesnt want him anymore "he messes up the tank" everytime it looks pretty etc.
> 
> my sister thinks hes ugly now as an "adult" he was cute as a baby of course..i gave him a basking dock a while back i had a spare and he can barely fit on it it sinks but its better then nothing..


At least he can get sort of dry. I'm not sure if we have turtle rehabbers in the GTA but what you could do is take it and try to get a LFS to take it. Right now as I'm typing this, I'm trying to get my friend to let me try and rehome her 6 inch yellow belly cooter.


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## Ciddian (Mar 15, 2006)

Ugh... I totally wish I could take in turtles for people but I just don't have the space. Always wanted to if I had a house. Bob wouldnt complain if I had them safe and out of sight in the basement. LOL

lloyd, i've used a 1 gallon on its side to keep my basking dock from sinking. If you ever need one I got one for ya!  That way the turtle can get all the way out to dry properly.. 

I really wish the shops would be more truthful when selling the turtles or don't sell them at all. I never sold one turtle in all the years of working at the LFS. I always told people just how big they get and it kills the sale everytime. lol


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## M.l.lloyd (Jun 28, 2010)

Im a member of www.redearslider.com its based on owners of RES..of all experiance and age..its great info and i might of found someone to take him but lives in mississauga..and i cant drive unfortunatly and my mother doesnt think its a good idea to drive just to give someone a turtle..

so hopefully they can come pick him up!

and thanks ciddian on your offer thats really nice of you! il keep it in mind definatly

and i agree..i have seen way too many horrible setups on youtube and craigslist..oh well..all i can do is take good care of my res


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## Joeee (Apr 3, 2010)

M.l.lloyd said:


> Im a member of www.redearslider.com its based on owners of RES..of all experiance and age..its great info and i might of found someone to take him but lives in mississauga..and i cant drive unfortunatly and my mother doesnt think its a good idea to drive just to give someone a turtle..
> 
> so hopefully they can come pick him up!
> 
> ...


Are you serious about the rehomer in Mississauga?! My friend lives in Mississauga, could you provide a link to the forum thread or his username on that?

Btw, you should try and just drop it off at a Big Al's, call in first of course to see if they'll take it.

There seriously should be some exam that people need to write before they buy a turtle, I've see so many serious cases of baditats that turtles are forced to live in. Or at least LFS to stop selling so many RES and more native species so it wouldn't be illegal for people to release them.


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## M.l.lloyd (Jun 28, 2010)

The user "Turtle_Man_Marc"

on www.redearslider.com says he is the GTA based turtle rescuer..maybe you could give him a PM

also the user "worldpeace" says he knows a few turtle rescues in his area..mississauga


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