# Not Happy With New Custom Tank



## islanddave

Hello,

I will not mention names here because my intention is not to bash someone's company. I am merely looking for advise based upon others input and experience.

I had gone through 4 marineland tanks that were damaged in one way or another. The LFS was very good on each and ultimately the last one that I got a full refund on.

Due to these experiences I decided to have one built. Nothing fancy a 120 short that was drilled on the end for a ghost overflow.

Problems that I see. The trim on the tank is really crappy. It has machine marks all over it, and has deep scratches in some of the trim. The overflow holes are chipped on the inside. Not visible when the box is installed but could potentially cause a trouble some leak. And then there is the scratch on the inside of the front pane about 6 inches from the top. It is very minor but there nonetheless. It might diminish with water in the tank i don't know.

I paid double the price of the Marineland's and I guess I expected a perfect tank or at least one that was 2x as good as a factory Marineland tank.

FYI I did give the tank a one over before the delivery guy left, but it took much glass cleaning and some time to find all of this.

Am I being too picky or critical? I would like to hear what others have to say.

Thanks


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## cb1021

NOpe you're not being too picky or critical. Ask for rebuild, show detailed photos. If manufacturer refuses, ask for full refund. Unacceptable imo. 

Hopefully manufacturer handles this well. Quality is key.


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## Bassick

No would you keep damaged furniture or electronics? Doesn't matter if it's custom or not. Also you should let people know which company, so they can decide if they want to use that company themselves. Just my two cents


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## Rookie2013

You are not being critical at all and should ask for a rebuild. It holds water and it should not give you any reason to be worried about while it sits in your house. Good luck.


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## islanddave

I guess that's the way I'm feeling too. Just completely disheartened at the fact that I can't seem to get a properly made tank anywhere at all. Could the chipped glass at the holes cause leaks?


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## planter

Yeah if your paying for a custom tank it should not have that many or any deficiencies for that matter. I would bring it up to the manufacturer and see what they do about it.

What's the point in paying a premium if you not getting what you want.


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## Harry Muscle

islanddave said:


> I guess that's the way I'm feeling too. Just completely disheartened at the fact that I can't seem to get a properly made tank anywhere at all. Could the chipped glass at the holes cause leaks?


Could the chips cause leaks, yes, but whether they will depends on a lot of things like their size, location, glass thickness, etc. I went through something very similar when I got my tank custom made ... I wonder if we both used the same company ... located close to Newmarket?

Thanks,
Harry


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## islanddave

Harry Muscle said:


> islanddave said:
> 
> 
> 
> I guess that's the way I'm feeling too. Just completely disheartened at the fact that I can't seem to get a properly made tank anywhere at all. Could the chipped glass at the holes cause leaks?
> 
> 
> 
> Could the chips cause leaks, yes, but whether they will depends on a lot of things like their size, location, glass thickness, etc. I went through something very similar when I got my tank custom made ... I wonder if we both used the same company ... located close to Newmarket?
> 
> Thanks,
> Harry
Click to expand...

How did u end up polishing your trim Harry?


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## wtac

Little chips at knockouts are inevitable but usually are ground or polished smooth. Wide "scalloped" chips...just crappy work.

Trim marred with tool marks means they just don't give a shit. Plain and simple. How difficult is it to properly store trim? Really, think about it.

Scratch on a pane, have to question QC/QA through out the build process. Glass panes are generally cleaned prior to assembly. The builder should have seen it prior and failing that, shouldn't have left the shop. If they have any business ethic, they should take the aquarium back ad either refund you or a complete rebuild...do not settle for pane replacement.

JM2C


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## islanddave

Just some pics to show you what I am talking about. 
The first 5 pictures detail the scalloped chips on the inside of the bulkhead holes. I have concerns about the gaskets sealing properly against these. The 6th picture details the machine marks on the trim. 
The 7th picture shows how little silicone was used on the inside fillets on the bottom of the tank. I do realize that these are are secondary seal and serve primarily to protect the main join between the panes. I would think that they should be bigger/more substantial on the bottom due to granules of sand coming into contact with them. 

Last picture is of the scratch. On the inside and about 2" long. Almost dead center and about 6" from the top. I have underlined and circled the scratch with a dry erase marker. Small but it does just barely catch your finger nail so it will attract algae. 

Also this thing does NOT have a center brace. Its made from 1/2" glass and is 24" high is this pushing limits, as the trim is definitely not structural?

Now that you have seen these pictures......does the consensus remain the same?

Thanks


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## Dis

Those holes look super sloppy. For me, the trim wouldn't be a deal breaker but none the less all of that put together looks pretty bad. Sorry your new tank isn't what you were expecting. Goodluck


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## Rookie2013

Ask for a rebuild those chips looks scary sorry just being honest 


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## WiredWeasel

I would ask for a rebuild or a refund


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## Dis

It's disappointing that they know the work is bad and still send it out to the costumer. Such a time waster


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## Mikeylikes

Cant believe they would actually sell that to you in good conscience. Get a refund or a total rebuild.


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## wtac

Those knockout chips show that they rushed the drilling at the end. This where you ease up on the pressure alot or at least have a backing like neoprene and a block of wood clamped to the drilled area.

The trim is a product mfg issue and nothing against the aquarium builder.

The scratch on the glass is the bad one and shouldn't have left the site.


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## tom g

*tank*

tell me u have contacted the store , and expressed your dissatisfaction on the tank .... u have been very good about not mentioning store , I would see what there response is and then move forward from there ....


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## Dis

In my opinion educate the customers to be aware of what might happen with a new tank. Why hide the name? Basically we all know who it is anyway but I'm just saying


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## kookie_guy

I wouldn't ask for a rebuild. I'd ask for a refund. What are the odds they'll do it right the second time?

I'm curious who the company is. I don't know the industry like some seem to, lol.


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## planter

It's good of you not to mention the name before they have had a chance to correct the problem. If they fail to do so... then we'll it's on them. Give them a chance first. S*** happens.


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## tom g

*tank*

thats where i was kinda going with this deal with the company before ..
I would first see what they say like previous your call on a redo or a full refund


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## zairefronts

*wow*

I was thinking of having a custom built tank but now I'm afraid of doing so given that I don't know who I can trust. I have seen amateurs drill better holes than that. I hope all goes well for you buddy and I would really like to know who is responsible for this type of shitsmanship.


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## islanddave

Yes, i am giving them the benefit of the doubt first. I am not certain if the owner was aware of this workmanship or not. Mistakes do happen to most people. exceptional people own up to them. we shall see. 

This just makes 5 tanks in a row. The first 4 were factory Marineland tanks, (from a LFS)one of which was a deep dimension, that was deemed defective by the factory. It has really been disappointing. Seems asthough the quality of factory tanks has really gone downhill in the last couple of years. I had hoped that a custom tank would avoid all of this. I am still hoping.

thanks


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## nc208082

Custom tank builders in Ontario your pretty much looking at NAFB or miracles. That does not look like Miracles quality to me.

I'm voicing my opinion Cuz I had my tank built by NAFB and it was a pain to get it redone.

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## TEEJAY

That is just god awful craftsmanship...

Can't say I've ordered custom through NAFB so no idea what their work looks like, but that doesn't strike me as a Miracles build.

Keep us posted on what comes of this situation.


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## islanddave

Cut and paste from what they sent me via email.

Good morning David

Sorry for the delay, I was working in the US and on the road yesterday

Sorry for this trouble. What you are referring to scratches I believe are rub marks, do you have any single edge razor blades? Possibly rubbing alcohol? As for the break through it is difficult not to get when drilling by hand, I can send you another set of gaskets so you could have rubber on both sides. Had we knew about the holes before, we would have drilled on our press. Take some 0000 steel wool with a little alcohol and rub gently in circles over the mark, I think you will find the will come off.

Do you have any silicone? If so, a little bead of silicone before pressing the bulkhead into place will ensure there are no leaks

Any questions don't hesitate to call

Have a great day

*My response*:

Hello,

Well it is infact not a rub mark. It is a scratch. The black mark u see is a dry erase marker underlining the scratch. It catches your fingernail. It is on the inside so it will hold algae.
As far as the bulkhead holes go from what i have seen yes drilling on a press creates a better hole however, these holes seem pretty bad compared to what I have seen others do free hand. It seems like they were rushed towards the end or not much care was put into making them.

David Stein


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## TEEJAY

islanddave said:


> Cut and paste from what they sent me via email.
> 
> Good morning David
> 
> Sorry for the delay, I was working in the US and on the road yesterday
> 
> Sorry for this trouble. What you are referring to scratches I believe are rub marks, do you have any single edge razor blades? Possibly rubbing alcohol? As for the break through it is difficult not to get when drilling by hand, I can send you another set of gaskets so you could have rubber on both sides. Had we knew about the holes before, we would have drilled on our press. Take some 0000 steel wool with a little alcohol and rub gently in circles over the mark, I think you will find the will come off.
> 
> Do you have any silicone? If so, a little bead of silicone before pressing the bulkhead into place will ensure there are no leaks
> 
> Any questions don't hesitate to call
> 
> Have a great day


Those aren't things and end-user who paid through the nose for a custom build should have to do to their brand new aquarium...


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## Dis

Ya that's just pour costumer service. Trying to take the easy way out


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## islanddave

I'm blown away right now.


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## islanddave

TEEJAY said:


> Those aren't things and end-user who paid through the nose for a custom build should have to do to their brand new aquarium...


Lets be clear here. Custom yes, due to the fact that they often don't have tanks ready to go out the door. They had to build this one.

This tank cost about just under 1K with taxes, delivery and hole drilling .

Now certainly not high end, and not one of their $3000 rimless custom jobs, but still I cant help but feel like I have gotten ripped off here. And the customer service seems less than responsible.

Thank God I didn't invest more money with these people than I did.

Wow.


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## tom g

*Tank*

Rent a truck .. drive to shop and don't leave till u get money back .....


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## TEEJAY

islanddave said:


> Lets be clear here. Custom yes, due to the fact that they often don't have tanks ready to go out the door. They had to build this one.
> 
> This tank cost about just under 1K with taxes, delivery and hole drilling .
> 
> Now certainly not high end, and not one of their $3000 rimless custom jobs, but still I cant help but feel like I have gotten ripped off here. And the customer service seems less than responsible.
> 
> Thank God I didn't invest more money with these people than I did.
> 
> Wow.


I hear you, and for sure you can spend a lot more, but at the end of the day you paid for a new product, custom size, in new condition, constructed with quality craftsmanship, and that is not what you received.


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## Dis

Maybe pick up is the way to go? What's the down payment, half?


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## majaxx

im looking to get a tank built myself. sorry i wouldnt accept that as custom.

My profession is dealing with custom work all day. I wont let it out the door unless its 100% perfect. That should be the difference between custom and cookie cutter. you pay for extra quality.


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## islanddave

Dis said:


> Maybe pick up is the way to go? What's the down payment, half?


Yup 50% down. Yeah Pick up might be the way to go. Of course 50% down could be their cost, so U you dont like it and dont want it, then they have paid for the tank and could resell again?

This really sucks


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## altcharacter

On a side note, if anyone is looking for a nice tank to be built try going to see Macko at Kraken. He orders in tanks from China that are pretty dam nice and you can get whatever you want built. Downside is you wait a month or so for it to be shipped. Upside is the quality is far superior to anything we see and he backs the build.

Pretty sure some of you saw this ad for one of the tanks for sale

http://gtaaquaria.com/forum/showthread.php?t=263634


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## kookie_guy

That's one of the shittiest replies I've ever seen. No offer to try to remedy at all. At this point, I would demand a full refund.


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## Mikeylikes

I'd ask for a full refund. That is NOT a customer oriented reply from a business that values long term customer satisfaction/business.

If they are not willing to provide a refund or make it right....I think you should call them out. If not PM me as I'm curious to know so I don't waste my time with these people in future.

Good luck!


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## supadean

Likewise. Would like to avoid this tank manufacturer.


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## wtac

Hopefully you paid by CC, file a dispute.


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## wtac

The sticky point:

"Had we knew about the holes before, we would have drilled on our press."

This where things get a bit grey TBH. Not at all to take away from a poor product you received as there are methods to hand drilling to minimize chipping on the knockout.


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## Rookie2013

OP you are being really nice not to disclose the name of the manufacturer on this forum after receiving that response. I think after all this you should so others can be aware of and avoid dealing with such companies. Yes $500 maybe their cost so for but you still pay that out of your pocket my friend.


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## Rappyfly

Rookie2013 said:


> OP you are being really nice not to disclose the name of the manufacturer on this forum after receiving that response. I think after all this you should so others can be aware of and avoid dealing with such companies. Yes $500 maybe their cost so for but you still pay that out of your pocket my friend.


He already did imply the company, who has the scale deal with US customers and use drill press for glass from tank builder in Toronto.


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## element291

Miracles isnt too far from you. They built me two tanks both prestine condition and quality work. No chips and scuffs like what I seen you had to experience here.


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## islanddave

Let's not turn this into a guessing game or a wich hunt please. This was.never my intention. I was merely looking for some more informed and experienced opinions on the matter. You guys did confirm what my gut was telling me. For that I thank the collective lot of you.

The company has decided to replace the tank after all. If it was due to these posts here I do not know nor do I care. I never set out to strong arm anyone I just wanted to know if I was justified feeling the way that I did.

Once I receive the new tank I will update here. Based upon my experiences I will provide some general guidelines in terms of getting a custom made tank.

Thanks


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## nc208082

Jm2c. These are honest reviews that people need to post. It helps future buyers make better informed desicions and see their options of how to get it fixed if it does not meet their expectations.

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## Dis

You just have to be so careful on that first inspection when you accept the package. There are so many threads were people missed something and the owner is SOL because they didn't see it first.

Anyway, very happy that they are replacing this for you. Goodluck with the next one. Looking forward to some pics


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## wtac

Good to hear that they are rebuilding they aquarium for you. It could be a headache at first but in the end if they want repeat business from a such a niche market. We all have particularities and word spreads fast.


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## Lilphil26

I'm glad that you got the tank re-done. And like someone said about a niche market, it is certainly in the builders best interest to keep a good reputation because it wouldn't take long and word would get around quick enough to put them right out of business. Hopefully the new tank is more up to par.


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## islanddave

Well after a long wait I got my replacement tank
I feel like all things being equal I liked the first one better
This one has obvious silicone issues


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## nc208082

Yes I agree it looks a little sloppy. But how did the other things come out. How were the holes drilled this time? No scratches? And trim looks good?

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## islanddave

nc208082 said:


> Yes I agree it looks a little sloppy. But how did the other things come out. How were the holes drilled this time? No scratches? And trim looks good?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk


I don't see.any scratches but haven't had the time yet to closely examine. Just really bummed. The trim is so so.....the top trim is uneven on one top edge. I really getting the feeling that there is absolutely no second checks done at this company unless your spending 5.grand on a tank.
I am not an expert here but do these voids seem like potential leaks at some point? The one void in the silicone is almost the same thickness as the panel. 1/2"

I have yet to hear back from them regarding my concerns.


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## kookie_guy

Time for a refund, and to move on to another builder.


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## nc208082

The void is a little big looking. I would fill the tank with water and watch it for a few days. Once filled with water it may get bigger.

This happened to me with my tank from NAFB, I had them remake it but it still was a little sloppy. I ended up adding some extra bracing myself and that secured it.

Who did you get to build it?

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## islanddave

nc208082 said:


> The void is a little big looking. I would fill the tank with water and watch it for a few days. Once filled with water it may get bigger.
> 
> This happened to me with my tank from NAFB, I had them remake it but it still was a little sloppy. I ended up adding some extra bracing myself and that secured it.
> 
> Who did you get to build it?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk


I'd rather not say at this point in time. But is it really that difficult to build a tank with out obvious defects?


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## Rookie2013

Definetly the workmanship is not upto the par. To top it up they made errors on a second build. Fill it up and do a test if you think its holding on than i would say move on and if you feel its not safe get a refund and look for another builder.


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## islanddave

Rookie2013 said:


> Definetly the workmanship is not upto the par. To top it up they made errors on a second build. Fill it up and do a test if you think its holding on than i would say move on and if you feel its not safe get a refund and look for another builder.


I have thought the same thing too. Although the problem would be how long would it hold water for?

Still no response from them.

David


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## Rookie2013

islanddave said:


> I have thought the same thing too. Although the problem would be how long would it hold water for?
> 
> Still no response from them.
> 
> David


There is never a guarantee on a tank's water holding capability. It's a hit and miss to be honest but I get it you hired someone to build yours and u would expect them to fulfill your requirements.

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## kamal

Dont settle! We all work very hard for our money and you should get what you paid for not something that loosk rushed or far from perfect.


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## planter

Get your money back and run....


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## kookie_guy

Considering this was already a rebuild from several issues with the original tank, they should have put an extra person on this one to make sure it came out perfect. There's just no excuse the second time around.


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## Harry Muscle

planter said:


> Get your money back and run....


And tell us who the builder is so we can avoid them in the future.

Thanks,
Harry


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## nanoreefwanabe

Has this been resolved? The first little bubble I would not be overly worried about but that second pic looks a touch scary...I personality don't think I would be happy about it...are the holes better? I have drilled 25 tanks and never had chip out like that...even free hand they should have had a guide on the front side and solid wood backing...no need for rubber or any thing else just clamp the wood to the glass...I would have to say get your money back...it would certainly appear there is no quality control, while building and after the build...it almost looks like there is something in the seam giving it that white reflection...just plain terrible


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## supadean

Not sharing who the builder is seems quite odd to me. Is there something I'm missing


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## Dis

Agreed. They haven't done you any favors. Sorry that the second tank isn't working out


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## tom g

*pics*

the pics to me are not really clear , but what I am curious about is did u accept tank, when they re did tank for u did u not pay attention to these details , if u have accepted just curious as to why .. 
I understand why u don't want to reveal the name that's your business 
but if they are screwing u and not helping u , then whats the big deal .if u accepted tank my guess is they wont take it back this time unless u dump it at there front door ....
just my 2 cents


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## islanddave

supadean said:


> Not sharing who the builder is seems quite odd to me. Is there something I'm missing


Well if I share it to everyone where is the leverage to be gained in getting the tank I want and deserve. I don't know maybe there is no point to this at all. They returned my email and said that the voids are a normal part of the curing process and do not effect the structural integrity of the tank at all.

David


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## altcharacter

I'm so done with this thread.

You complain about not getting the tank that you want, yet, you are ok with hiding the identity of the company that messed it up multiple times.

At this point you get what you paid for if you don't come out with the name.

Unsubbed!!!


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## islanddave

tom g said:


> the pics to me are not really clear , but what I am curious about is did u accept tank, when they re did tank for u did u not pay attention to these details , if u have accepted just curious as to why ..
> I understand why u don't want to reveal the name that's your business
> but if they are screwing u and not helping u , then whats the big deal .if u accepted tank my guess is they wont take it back this time unless u dump it at there front door ....
> just my 2 cents


I know it may seem to be ridiculous but unless you have been there yourself it's hard to understand. Yes I looked the tank over well both times .....perfectly well obviously not. It does take time and some decerning sruitniy to inspect a tank. So much conspires against this though. Weather conditions getting tank from delivery truck to house.deleivery trucks are almost always packed full and do not lend thieves well to inspecting tanks from all angles. Busy delivery drivers.....my own work schedule....coupled with waiting for the driver to show up. Then drying off the wet tank from rain or snow gotten from the outside to inside move. Then sitting in the basement with a rain or snow streaked tank that is staring to fog up from the different ambient temperatures
Eventually the final condition of the tank is determined but unfortunately after the fact. It would be different if I were inspecting a tank that was purchased off the floor from a retail shop because we'll there it is in the store for perusal. 
Hope some of this makes sense. I have tried my best.


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## tom g

*tank*

understood , very frustrating in the most part , deff continue your displeasure with the manufacturer .I guess after they screwed tank up the first time I prob would of traveled to where tank was .. we all have busy lives and schedules and yes like u said unless u been there its difficult to understand .
I hope u get some results 
cheers 
tom


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## nc208082

Funny that's the exact same response NAFB gave me when I complained about my tank seal.

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## kookie_guy

I hope you get your money back. That's about the only reason I wouldn't name the company, like you said, leverage. Refund money, all this goes away, and the people speculating the shop that did it can continue to speculate. If they give you the ol' middle finger, name them, and let things sort themselves out. As mentioned with the first tank screw up, this is a tight knit community, and bad publicity can wreak havoc on their bottom line. Just ask Ramez, lol. Didn't take much for him to get chewed up and hacked up like a loogie. Gross when people hack up loogies.


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## islanddave

kookie_guy said:


> I hope you get your money back. That's about the only reason I wouldn't name the company, like you said, leverage. Refund money, all this goes away, and the people speculating the shop that did it can continue to speculate. If they give you the ol' middle finger, name them, and let things sort themselves out. As mentioned with the first tank screw up, this is a tight knit community, and bad publicity can wreak havoc on their bottom line. Just ask Ramez, lol. Didn't take much for him to get chewed up and hacked up like a loogie. Gross when people hack up loogies.


I believe that I will send the company a link to this thread. Thanks for your support and guidance.

David


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## carl

Did the tank leak when you filled it?


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## islanddave

Have not had a chance to fill it yet Carl.


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## supadean

This is nothing about leverage. It's about customer service and quality of work. Period. Nothing "goes away" by stating the manufacturer. If anything it hopefully will motivate the manufacturer to improve and makes the community aware. Thinking that a refund will not be forthcoming otherwise is ridiculous.


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## planter

I think at this point the OP is more concerned about getting his cash back and moving on.


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## carl

K, let me know


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## islanddave

Further issues...hole for external overflow box while drilled without chips are not straight. Yes there is some leway in terms of the holes.being slightly oversized so yes the box can be wiggled......higher or lower however do to the geometry of the the distance between holes and their relative size the box cannot be made level. I know its had to see in the picture, but trust me I have spent much time trying to get the box levelled. the previous tank ironically did not have this issue at all. Also the trim is not really up to snuff.

If I had the choice of the two tanks I would say the first one flaws, chips, and scratch and all was the better of the two. Wow...

Yes I have made up my mind. I am demanding a full refund, and will be submitting a link to this thread. 


Thanks David


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## carl

Question, are you concerned that the tank may leak, or are you concerned that the esthetics of the tank are not completely perfect?


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## planter

I think he's expressed why he's not happy. The workmanship is sloppy in this opinion and after seeing the pictures he posted I tend to agree. He paid for a custom tank I would imagine that goops of chaulking and uneven trim would piss anyone off especially considering that this is a tank that replaced a tank that was filled with flaws.


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## carl

I am still curious as to his answer, but in response to your comment my question would be, did he ask how much for a perfect tank, or did he ask for a custom tank for the lowest price? The replacement tank was delivered, he inspected it and signed for it, so as far as I am concerned he got what he paid for. The first tank had the chips and it was rightly replaced, and if he's not happy with the esthetics of this tank don't buy any more from this company but imho they fulfilled their end of the deal.


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## Greg_o

islanddave said:


> Yes I have made up my mind. I am demanding a full refund, and will be submitting a link to this thread.
> 
> Thanks David


Good luck. Also, point out that at last count this thread has well over 3100 views, with many members actively asking who this manufacturer is..


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## islanddave

carl said:


> Question, are you concerned that the tank may leak, or are you concerned that the esthetics of the tank are not completely perfect?


My concerns are two fold.

One the lack of silicone in two places on the front and side panels diminishes it's structural integrity which could lead to a leak. It is also an eye sore.

Two the holes for.the overflow box are crooked and so is the trim.

I expected a tank that was at least as.good or better than an off the shelf tank. I think that is reasonable. This is "custom" in so far as they had to build it as they don't have 30 in stock. They also drilled holes in it at my specification as based upon a template that came with said box.
I have never.equated the concept of.a.custom tank with poor sloppy workmanship. And I don't think that this is unreasonable.

David


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## TBemba

carl said:


> I am still curious as to his answer, but in response to your comment my question would be, did he ask how much for a perfect tank, or did he ask for a custom tank for the lowest price? The replacement tank was delivered, he inspected it and signed for it, so as far as I am concerned he got what he paid for. The first tank had the chips and it was rightly replaced, and if he's not happy with the esthetics of this tank don't buy any more from this company but imho they fulfilled their end of the deal.


I personally think that if you are purchasing a custom tank or any other product you should be able to expect a certain amount of quality. I would think above that of standard tanks sold in stores. I also would assume the tank was wrapped and it was pretty hard to access the condition of the tank while it was on the truck or being moved into the house.

I also think that after a week if the customer calls and does not like the condition of the tank then either discount the tank or refund the money and take the tank back.

Unless they have a written clause to state otherwise.

The fact that this is the second tank, any reasonable person would expect more than standard care would be taken on the second tank.

I would think if the builder had any credibility they would have either asked the buyer to come to the shop and look the tank over before delivery or once the tank was delivered have the buyer take a look at the tank and go over every aspect that could be cause for concern and then sign off on delivery.

But hey what do I know


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## carl

Which is precisely my point, as his first post says that he went through four Marineland tanks that all had problems and then the problem with the first custom tank, therefore before signing for the tank, he should have carefully inspected it before it was even unloaded, but hey, as you say, what do I know


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## islanddave

carl said:


> Which is precisely my point, as his first post says that he went through four Marineland tanks that all had problems and then the problem with the first custom tank, therefore before signing for the tank, he should have carefully inspected it before it was even unloaded, but hey, as you say, what do I know


I inspected as carefully as I felt I needed to or could both times. If you want to read back a few posts when I detailed my answer to this same question and concern. I'm not going to rehash and attempt to explain myself to your satisfaction...probably will never happen. I felt that I did the best I could but the onis of responsibility for a well built tank does not lie on my shoulders. Whether I found the defects in the driveway right away or later in my basement. The end result is the same. A poorly made tank at any price point. Period.


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## solarz

Check out Aqua Inspiration. They have some amazing tanks. They also sell reef ready setups now.


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## planter

Yeah +1 on AI.

Although their stands are not very good. Or at least the one I bought there isn't. I'm considering on replacing mine only after a year.

I won't buy a tank anywhere else unless i need a size they dont carry. I've heard good things about miracles aquariums.


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## carl

Lmao, you see a horribly flawed tank and I see a reasonable job for which I assume you paid a reasonable price, when I want perfection I ask for it and indicate my willingness to pay for it, I don't expect a Lamborghini for the price of a Chevy cavalier


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## tom g

*Tank*

Guys .... he's pissed as much as we are he's looking for some guidance and has asked if we think he's right or wrong ..who cares who built the tank .. like carl says if u want a perfect tank u ask for what u want ...if they screwed up once and take it back and give u another shit tank .. like you say we weren't there to accept it and during the crappy weather .. but my first call would be back to them saying wtf.... call email and tell them to come pick it up and get your money back ...go from there if they are not helpful to that go to next step .. that you have been trying to stay neutral at the end of the day it's your money and your tank that they screwed u on ..
If they won't give back money or big enough discount to be able to live with ... then you know what next step is ...
Jm2c
Tom


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## kookie_guy

carl said:


> Lmao, you see a horribly flawed tank and I see a reasonable job for which I assume you paid a reasonable price, when I want perfection I ask for it and indicate my willingness to pay for it, I don't expect a Lamborghini for the price of a Chevy cavalier


Custom tank, should be flawless. That tank is NOT flawless. Perhaps you can buy it off David for the money he paid for it?


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## carl

Why should a custom tank be flawless unless he paid for flawless? If he paid for reasonable I would say he got reasonable. He hasn't indicated that he paid a premium price. I looked at the tanks I cleaned today and every one of them had a flaw of one kind or another and when I showed people the pictures of his tank none of them saw a problem


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## tom g

*flawless*

of course he payed for flawless... come on guys in no way does anyone say build me a tank like whatever ...if I bought a tank I would expect near to perfect ,sure they may be a few little things but jeez if I pay for a custom tank I know I am not paying for half assed ...this may be acceptable to some who payed for a discount tank cause someones returned it or has not picked it up .
I am sure the OP has not ordered half assed or expected what he gone not once but twice .
well this is up to the OP to move it along good luck 
tom


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## planter

tom g said:


> of course he payed for flawless... come on guys in no way does anyone say build me a tank like whatever ...if I bought a tank I would expect near to perfect ,sure they may be a few little things but jeez if I pay for a custom tank I know I am not paying for half assed ...this may be acceptable to some who payed for a discount tank cause someones returned it or has not picked it up .
> I am sure the OP has not ordered half assed or expected what he gone not once but twice .
> well this is up to the OP to move it along good luck
> tom


Exactly there is a difference between budget items vs damaged items. Who would expect to order a tank and have it arrive in that condition.

BTW what are the tank dimensions?


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## carl

I have looked at the pictures and they look reasonable and not half assed to me. And if he ever reveals who made the tank I would have no problem ordering from them. When I want perfection, I tell them I want perfection and pay accordingly


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## islanddave

carl said:


> I have looked at the pictures and they look reasonable and not half assed to me. And if he ever reveals who made the tank I would have no problem ordering from them. When I want perfection, I tell them I want perfection and pay accordingly


OK Carl fair enough....I defer to your business experience. 
What do you figure a 120 gallon short with 1/2" glass with this quality of.silicone work, the current unlevelled top trim and crooked overflow holes is worth?

What would you sell such a tank for?

Secondly what do you feel a tank without such obvious defects would be worth?

What would account for the additional cost?

Thanks David


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## TBemba

carl said:


> Why should a custom tank be flawless unless he paid for flawless? If he paid for reasonable I would say he got reasonable. He hasn't indicated that he paid a premium price. I looked at the tanks I cleaned today and every one of them had a flaw of one kind or another and when I showed people the pictures of his tank none of them saw a problem


Sorry but this is some bullshit right here. When did not having pride of craftsmanship and doing the job properly?

Why do you think anyone has to pay thru the nose for a job done correctly?

I now know I would never buy anything from you with your attitude of well you owe me money for doing a half ass job. If you expect me to do the job properly well pay me double!

Carl thanks for telling you who you are and how you think. I for one am listening


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## advanced reef aquatics

That's obviously a miracles tank. They are also the only ones with a press to double drill the hole, regardless, the chips around the holes are pretty well unavoidable when drilling by hand and through one side, scalloping is normal and in no way affects structure. If you opted to have holes after the tank was built, this is what your going to get.
The tank is not perfect, but your also not paying for an Elos, where perfection is pretty much guaranteed,
The scratch is a deal breaker, and I'm sure any manufacturer will remedy it.
Your not looking at other major points, such as 1/8" even gap for silicone, 
Aside from the scratch, the rest is standard.
When I use to build tanks we would definitely pay more attention to the finish, but then again we built one at a time.


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## advanced reef aquatics

Carl's right, aside from Elos, I can pick at least 5 things wrong with any tank.


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## nanoreefwanabe

carl said:


> Lmao, you see a horribly flawed tank and I see a reasonable job for which I assume you paid a reasonable price, when I want perfection I ask for it and indicate my willingness to pay for it, I don't expect a Lamborghini for the price of a Chevy cavalier


I would love to know what a reasonable price for customised 120 is? Off the shelf a Marineland 120 is what? 400$? I would consider these reasonably built throw a couple holes in it and you have this tank...if David spent 400$ On this tank plus the cost of drilling I myself would not be happy...the chips in the first tank were well past scalloped they had cracks, unacceptable...tank rebuilt and now there are fairly large silicone voids...yeah these may hold water...but what about a year or so down the road..I have seen void like this stretch open...the trim I would overlook...the marks on the first..well those are machining marks...who cares you will never see them any way...the second trim...well the uneven corners with an open top tank could light up and look like pooh...I would not be happy with that..it is easy enough for them to repair or replace the trim....but unlevel holes...well how the heck is he supposed to use that? They were supposed to be drilled to accommodate a overflow box...they certainly don't...I am sure he payed considerably more then 400$ for this tank...personally I would expect better. Good luck driving the cavalier with all four wheels pointing in different directions


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## Flexin5

carl said:


> Lmao, you see a horribly flawed tank and I see a reasonable job for which I assume you paid a reasonable price, when I want perfection I ask for it and indicate my willingness to pay for it, I don't expect a Lamborghini for the price of a Chevy cavalier


why not have both?










lol jk


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## islanddave

nanoreefwanabe said:


> I would love to know what a reasonable price for customised 120 is? Off the shelf a Marineland 120 is what? 400$? I would consider these reasonably built throw a couple holes in it and you have this tank...if David spent 400$ On this tank plus the cost of drilling I myself would not be happy...the chips in the first tank were well past scalloped they had cracks, unacceptable...tank rebuilt and now there are fairly large silicone voids...yeah these may hold water...but what about a year or so down the road..I have seen void like this stretch open...the trim I would overlook...the marks on the first..well those are machining marks...who cares you will never see them any way...the second trim...well the uneven corners with an open top tank could light up and look like pooh...I would not be happy with that..it is easy enough for them to repair or replace the trim....but unlevel holes...well how the heck is he supposed to use that? They were supposed to be drilled to accommodate a overflow box...they certainly don't...I am sure he payed considerably more then 400$ for this tank...personally I would expect better. Good luck driving the cavalier with all four wheels pointing in different directions


Rough calculation is $800 for tank....plus $300 for overflow box (not supplied by them) plus delivery so grand total about $1200.


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## Greg_o

Yea that math though..


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## carl

I will check with my supplier and if the other guy is right it will be the same price and the same quality, and if its from them I will fix it for free if it ever leaks, as long as you set it on white styrofoam.


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## carl

To Tbemba, I see that the tank is of reasonable quality and he must have thought the price was reasonable or he would not have ordered it. If the company that I get my tanks from made it I will also fix it for him free if it ever leaks. As for me not selling quality, I sell saltwater fish quarantined three weeks for ich, who else does that?


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## islanddave

carl said:


> To Tbemba, I see that the tank is of reasonable quality and he must have thought the price was reasonable or he would not have ordered it. If the company that I get my tanks from made it I will also fix it for him free if it ever leaks. As for me not selling quality, I sell saltwater fish quarantined three weeks for ich, who else does that?


Carl I thought that the price of the tank would ensure my chances of getting something that was better than what I was seeing from Marineland etc. I have many older Marineland tanks that in my eyes are"perfect" meaning they came with no scratches or silicone voids.Recently though in the last 5 years I have seen the quality of Commercial tanks take a dive. Hence why I bit the bullet and ordered.from a custom manufacturer. I am not a wealthy man and but try to spend as much as I can for something to ensure the best quality that I can afford.
This tank has not proven that in my eyes.

As far as possibly needing your help is concerned.

No thank you.


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## carl

You asked for advice and opinion, I gave you both, if you don't like my advice and opinion don't take it, no need to get mad at me.


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## islanddave

carl said:


> You asked for advice and opinion, I gave you both, if you don't like my advice and opinion don't take it, no need to get mad at me.


Carl I think there might be some perceptual issues here. I simply responded to your comment, and then declined your offer of future help. Nothing more, and nothing less.


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## carl

Thank you for editing your response, the first message you sent was pretty harsh and made me feel bad for offering an opinion you asked for but didn't agree with


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## islanddave

Edit. 

Carl you have some perception problems.....good.lord stop with the guilt and shaming already. Did you notice that your opinion is in the vast minority here. You are acting like a spoiled child.


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## carl

I thanked you for editing your comment to make it less harsh, how is that using shame or guilt?


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## islanddave

Carl please leave.


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## carl

Lol, watch my videos, you will see I never go away


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## kookie_guy

carl said:


> Lol, watch my videos, you will see I never go away


How come I don't see you on the site sponsor list? Yet you advertise your business services on here. I thought a business making a profit was required to be a site sponsor? Or did that only apply to that poor idiot Ramez?


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## carl

I was invited to join the site, I am not sure what the rules are.


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## Dis

I don't think carl has been in the wrong. He voiced an opinion and he didn't attack the op


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## carl

Thank you for your kind words, to the op I will make an offer, get some white styrofoam, I use one inch Durofoam from Home Depot and set up the tank, if it leaks, I will fix it for free, or buy it for what I would pay for it wholesale, and then we would auction it off on this site with all proceeds going to pijac, impartial party would arrange the thread, maybe one of the mods.


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## aks72ca

You tell 'em Carl!


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## carl

I want happiness for all.


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## clubsoda

How much would you pay for it wholesale?


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## islanddave

Thank you for your kind words, to the op I will make an offer, get some white styrofoam, I use one inch Durofoam from Home Depot and set up the tank, if it leaks, I will fix it for free, or buy it for what I would pay for it wholesale, and then we would auction it off on this site with all proceeds going to pijac, impartial party would arrange the thread, maybe one of the mods.[/QUOTE]

Thank you for reiterating your offer Carl.

What pray tell is your solution for the crooked overflow holes that have been drilled? And about the uneven trim on the tank?
nk


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## carl

I will let you know Monday


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## carl

K, so apparently it's not a concern about a leaking tank, but it's the overflow box being level, did you buy it from the tank manufacturer? If so Yay auction


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## carl

My question is, how have you been able to go this long without setting it up? I couldn't.


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## clubsoda

Good do that Monday



carl said:


> I will let you know Monday


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## islanddave

carl said:


> K, so apparently it's not a concern about a leaking tank, but it's the overflow box being level, did you buy it from the tank manufacturer? If so Yay auction


Carl.

My dissatisfaction regarding this second tank can be seen in three aspects.

First issue has to due with the silicone job.
It has two large voids in the silicone on the front panel. One near the top on one side and one near the bottom on the other side. The one at the bottom almost spans the entire width of the thickness of the glass. The void is open to the outside, but is not on the inside due to the fillet. This one concerns me most due to the fact that there is more outwards pressure on the glass at this depth. Both are eye sores as well as being potential leak spots.

Second issue would be the overflow holes drilled in the tank. 
Yes these holes are clean (no scalloping beyond the gasket surfaces like the first tank) And yes these hole were presumably drilled with a press. However they are not level. This makes installing and using the third party overflow box problematic. The external overflow box came with complete instructions and a template. For both tanks I provided them the box, template and instructions for both installations. Interestingly the first time they drilled holes they were level and the box fit really nicely. Not so with this tank.From what I can tell they did not measure properly, and or the template moved. Either way an error on their part.

Thirdly the trim looks like crap.
My original complaint with the trim was that it was of poor quality. Typical Maineland tank trims look like finely engineered space age carbon fibre materials compared to this stuff. Aside from that, this trim has been improperly siliconed so that it is uneven in two corners, with no way to remedy without removal, which would more than likely destroy the trim and could further damage the tank.

Carl, if your desire is to truely be helpful at this point, I think that adding any further discussions of white styrofoam, auctions, and the the like, needs to stop.

Thanks David


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## carl

A, you bought a tank for an agreed on price, the first tank had flaws, it was replaced and you inspected the replacement tank and signed for the replacement tank, therefore the manufacturer fulfilled their contract. I offer to fix your tank for free or to even buy it from you if it leaks, and you get mad at me, how does that help anybody. The tank is yours, you have no case against the builder, so move on and decide your next step, I am always helpful. Just out of curiosity, did you really want advice or where you just wanting opinions that agreed with you?


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## islanddave

carl said:


> A, you bought a tank for an agreed on price, the first tank had flaws, it was replaced and you inspected the replacement tank and signed for the replacement tank, therefore the manufacturer fulfilled their contract. I offer to fix your tank for free or to even buy it from you if it leaks, and you get mad at me, how does that help anybody. The tank is yours, you have no case against the builder, so move on and decide your next step, I am always helpful. Just out of curiosity, did you really want advice or where you just wanting opinions that agreed with you?


Carl. If you read through the thread, you will see that if 100 people have made comments 99 agree with the sentiment that both tanks are sub standard. Guess who the 1 out of 100 is?

And Carl notice how every position you take here attempts to swing the responsibility for the tank my way. It took me atleast an hour in a hospitable environment (indoors) to assess the tanks condition. I also had to clean both tanks before inspection as they were both filthy from finger prints and dust from sitting in the shop while the silicone cured. Tell me how does one check a tank covered in dust and finger prints, outside in the snow, rain, and cold? And how would the manufacturer do their second check with the tank in this condition? Good question!

Carl put some white styrofoam under yourself. You are springing a leak.

David


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## carl

I read through the comments regarding the second tank and as far as I count there were 5 or six people who agreed with you, and one guy who said there are at least five things wrong with every tank except Elon tanks. However that's all moot, because you inspected the tank and signed for it, so it's yours. The horse is dead, stop beating it. Put the tank on styrofoam, cover the seams so you don't see the voids and put some thing over the trim and enjoy your fish tank, and remember qt your fish and dip your corals.


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## carl

You say I seem to be putting the responsibility on you, to be perfectly clear, as soon as you signed for it, you accepted the responsibility, I have inspected hundreds of tanks under all conditions, I never found it difficult. I am still curious, did you want advice or just opinions that agreed with yours.


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## tom g

*Seriously*

Are u guys serious here or what...
Put them away and move on ..

OP...HAVE U CONTACTED MANUFACTURER...
what was his response...
At this point it's been over a week have u had any contact with him ...

This has gone off the rails ....


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## islanddave

tom g said:


> Are u guys serious here or what...
> Put them away and move on ..
> 
> OP...HAVE U CONTACTED MANUFACTURER...
> what was his response...
> At this point it's been over a week have u had any contact with him ...
> 
> This has gone off the rails ....


I have contacted the manufacturer several times. They are not the best with communicating. Most recently today with a link to this thread.
Am I serious............absolutely. If Carl did not keep commenting I would have nothing new to share in the thread.

Thanks David


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## kookie_guy

Just ignore him. Your issue is with the manufacturer, not Carl. He is trolling and you are doing exactly what a troll wants, a response. Easier to just ignore.


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## TBemba

kookie_guy said:


> Just ignore him. Your issue is with the manufacturer, not Carl. He is trolling and you are doing exactly what a troll wants, a response. Easier to just ignore.


Exactly, I don't understand how this thread has been not locked by an admin yet? Also a month ban might help curb trolls


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## nc208082

I do find it interesting that some who have good knowledge of the industry have said you need to specify in order to get a flawless tank and pay extra to have this done.

This is surprising to me because if it's custom I expect it to be showroom quality regardless of whether I say so or not. 

I don't expect it be be elos or red sea quality, but the holes should be drilled straight, minimal chipping, trim untouched with no markings or scrapes and no scratches on the tank.

As long as those three points are there then they have fulfilled their part IMO.

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk


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## advanced reef aquatics

Either way that sucks for the buyer. Everyone has different thresholds of what's acceptable. Myself, being in the industry my view will be a lot different than others.
There does seem to be quite a bit wrong with this tank who ever built it.
Good luck and hope you get resolve.
Having multiple people argue goes nowhere fast.


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## islanddave

(Cut and paste from email below.....manufacturer response)

Good morning David

What you refer to as voids, I have explained to you previously is trapped gas as vulcanization takes place. As for the holes being crooked, there may be +- 1/8” but there is ample clearance as the thread diameter is 3/16” smaller than the hole, your overflow box will be able to sit level. You purchased a production tank which is mass produced at a cost indicative of mass produced aquariums. Have the aquarium sent back and we will happily refund your money.

As indicated by others in the "know" I guess that this is the prevailing attitude and philosophy of this company and apparently a few others.
I wonder how much more money I needed to spend to get a product without scratches, trapped gas in the silicone, crooked overflow holes, and crooked trim? Also the overflow cannot be made level....but what do I know........?



David


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## kookie_guy

You were offered a refund, take it and run. Problem solved, move on.


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## planter

Yeah chalk this up to a learning experience, get your refund and move on.


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## TBemba

islanddave said:


> (Cut and paste from email below.....manufacturer response)
> 
> Good morning David
> 
> What you refer to as voids, I have explained to you previously is trapped gas as vulcanization takes place. As for the holes being crooked, there may be +- 1/8" but there is ample clearance as the thread diameter is 3/16" smaller than the hole, your overflow box will be able to sit level. *You purchased a production tank which is mass produced at a cost indicative of mass produced aquariums.* Have the aquarium sent back and we will happily refund your money.
> 
> As indicated by others in the "know" I guess that this is the prevailing attitude and philosophy of this company and apparently a few others.
> I wonder how much more money I needed to spend to get a product without scratches, trapped gas in the silicone, crooked overflow holes, and crooked trim? Also the overflow cannot be made level....but what do I know........?
> 
> David


Sorry I thought you said that this was a custom made aquarium? But in the cut and paste it clearly states it was a mass produced?


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## carl

He was being a bit disingenuous, he was offered a true custom tank but he didn't want to pay the price quoted. When he said "custom" tank, he meant custom made as in the holes were drilled in a panel and then the run of tanks was made and then he got the one with the holes. And some people thought I was a troll and should be banned, lol


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## kookie_guy

carl said:


> He was being a bit disingenuous, he was offered a true custom tank but he didn't want to pay the price quoted. When he said "custom" tank, he meant custom made as in the holes were drilled in a panel and then the run of tanks was made and then he got the one with the holes. And some people thought I was a troll and should be banned, lol


This is settled and he was offered a refund. Why are you still trolling? Let it go dude. And please pay your fees to advertise your for profit business like all the other site sponsors.


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## carl

He was trying to hurt my friend's business and I don't make a profit selling my quarantined fish, I don't even break even.


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## Dis

Omg what business. Haha thought for sure it was miracles but don't think so anymore. Can't believe I'm still reading this thread


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## tom g

*tank discussion*

take your money as offered.. move on ... u now have been educated on what to look for ..nothing but perfection for a perfect display tank . you know what u like ...and a perfection needs to be voiced to company ..if its a production tank like others had said there will be flaws .if it is a custom tank there is a expectation of a tank being flawless .you get what u pay for ,not saying what u paid for the tank was not hard earned money .

this thread needs to be closed , nothing constructive going on in here ...


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## carl

My friend made two long trips to his house and very clearly explained the difference in price and quality between custom tanks and production line tanks. He does his best for every customer and I think that should be supported.


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## islanddave

carl said:


> He was being a bit disingenuous, he was offered a true custom tank but he didn't want to pay the price quoted. When he said "custom" tank, he meant custom made as in the holes were drilled in a panel and then the run of tanks was made and then he got the one with the holes. And some people thought I was a troll and should be banned, lol


Carl you are now lying, are very misinformed......or mentally ill.......take your pick. "he was offered a true custom but didn't want to pay the price quoted." I do not know where that statement comes from. Not me and i hope not the owner because that did not ever ever happen.

The whole "production tank" vs 'custom tank" maybe im not up to the industry's nomenclature.....but I have used the phrase"custom tank" to refer to a tank that they had to make for me. The only customization of it was to drill the holes for me to my specification.That is all. Now if custom means $4500....then I gues it's not custom. I just wanted a tank that was pleasing to look at.

Cut and paste from manufacturer.
What you refer to as voids, I have explained to you previously is trapped gas as vulcanization takes place. As for the holes being crooked, there may be +- 1/8" but there is ample clearance as the thread diameter is 3/16" smaller than the hole, your overflow box will be able to sit level. You purchased a production tank which is mass produced at a cost indicative of mass produced aquariums. Have the aquarium sent back and we will happily refund your money.

And...
A custom tank in that size would typically have an increased glass thickness, eurobracing, imperfections for the most part would be replaced, panels with an excessive amount of trapped gas would be reworked, (FYI, the aquarium you have does not have an excessive amount according to our supplier)
glass manufacturers have an accepted number of flaws per square meter at a 2 meter distance, for our custom projects there is extra scrutiny. This is a fact of life. Having something close to flawless certainly increases the cost, I apologize if you felt that you were mislead, it was never our intention.

I guess I simply didnt pay enough money to have the tank that I hoped to have.Lesson learned moving on.

David


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## carl

I wrote that by custom tank you meant a tank with holes drilled in it for you, then you said some bad things about me, even though I am always polite, and then you said that by custom tank you meant a tank that had holes drilled in it for you which is the same as I wrote, I wish you the very best always.


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## islanddave

carl said:


> I wrote that by custom tank you meant a tank with holes drilled in it for you, then you said some bad things about me, even though I am always polite, and then you said that by custom tank you meant a tank that had holes drilled in it for you which is the same as I wrote, I wish you the very best always.


He was being a bit disingenuous, he was offered a true custom tank but he didn't want to pay the price quoted.

And this statement Carl? Where does this statement come from?

David


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## carl

Copy and paste from the manufacturers email that you posted, You purchased a production tank which is mass produced at a cost indicative of mass produced aquariums.


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## islanddave

carl said:


> Copy and paste from the manufacturers email that you posted, You purchased a production tank which is mass produced at a cost indicative of mass produced aquariums.


No it didnt Carl.


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## clubsoda

Yup, I didn't read this either from the manufacturer response: "*he was offered a true custom tank but he didn't want to pay the price quoted*"

But the always very best very polite carl says you're disingenuous which means: insincere, dishonest, untruthful, false, deceitful, duplicitous, lying, mendacious, hypocritical. Yah ok very best very polite carl



carl said:


> Copy and paste from the manufacturers email that you posted, You purchased a production tank which is mass produced at a cost indicative of mass produced aquariums.





islanddave said:


> No it didnt Carl.


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## clubsoda

I read all your posts Dave, obviously you're not in the wrong here that's why the manufacturer offer you a refund and an apology. imo they should also offer to pickup the tank.


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## Y2KGT

Time to close this thread before it gets even more personal than it already has. Next time you guys want to weigh in on a thread please be respectful and don't let yourselves get dragged into personal attacks. Its just a hobby!
--
Thanks...Paul
The Mod Team


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