# My "Planted Tank" *UPDATED*



## Brian (Mar 14, 2006)

Just a few snaps of the early stages of my 35gal tank.

I decided to go bare bottom and just have plants tied down to driftwood. I am planning on doing my entire tank with windelev fern, java fern, riccia, pelia, java moss, and christmas moss tied down to driftwood and maybe some free floating plants.

My plans are to have enough driftwood so that I can make a layered effect but that probably won't end up happening for another couple of weeks. My immediate plans are to fill up the left side of the tank and then start acquiring more pieces so that I can eventually stack them and finish the "layered" thing.

I'll try and take better pictures tomorrow but right now, the big piece on the left is windelev fern, the piece on the far right corner is pelia, the bright green piece is riccia, the piece laying on top of the rock is java fern and the piece across the front side of the tank is just java moss.


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## dekstr (Oct 23, 2007)

Looks good!

Just wondering, what kind of lighting and co2 do you have, what kind of tank are you aiming for? Non-co2, moderate light?

I think it will look better w/ a black background instead of blue.

Interesting to see you are going bare bottom! Not a lot of planted tanks are like that, so you will have to be creative. I can envision a nice tank of ferns, mosses, riccia, etc!


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## Brian (Mar 14, 2006)

Thanks, I don't have any CO2 in the tank and I don't plan on getting any. The light is just a 3 foot fluorescent fixture and the bulb is a repti-sun uv bulb that I had left over from one of my bearded dragon tanks.

No idea how many watts/lumens it is putting out though... any idea how I can find out?


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

Most of those you will be growing will grow well in low-light. Without ferts/co2, too much light will likely hurt their growth and you will have a lot of algae on your hands!

I'd replace the bulb with a plant specific one and keep the watts per gallon low until you decide to add some ferts/co2.

Looks like a pretty neat idea though.

Another suggestion is, to provide some relief from the light, is to have a layer of duckweed on the surface.


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## Brian (Mar 14, 2006)

Do you think that would be too much relief from the light?

If not, I can throw in some watersprite for now as I don't have duckweed on hand... what do you think?


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## dekstr (Oct 23, 2007)

With only 1 tube, I doubt Brian will need relief from light. However, floating plants will avoid algae growth by shading + nutrient uptake.

I guess the important factor here would be photo period length.

We know that growth will be slow because of low light. And non-co2 won't be too big of a problem. In fact, it will be ok w/o co2 since light drive is very low. However, it would be important to do some minimal fertilizer dosing as to avoid any nutrient limitations.

I agree with Chris_Stewart, the reptile bulb probably won't be very effective for plant growth. Try a plant-specific tube or a bulb somewhere between 5000k - 10000k. I know kelvin temperature doesn't mean plant growth, but I find that most planted tanks use that range.. so it must be working. Unfortunately, most bulbs don't list their PAR rating or nanometers exhibited, so kelvin is the only thing we can go by.


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## dekstr (Oct 23, 2007)

Oh yeah, as for floating plants, I think water sprite will be ok.

You just want some stem plants to give the slower growing plants / mosses a headstart by absorbing the nutrients in the water faster than algae can.


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## Brian (Mar 14, 2006)

Can stem plants grow free floating? I am really trying to avoid potting anything as you know I want to go bare bottom 

I have a double 48" strip light with 2 plant specific bulbs on it but its 4' and my tank is only 3' so there is like 1' that hangs off the side and it looks really really bad.

I can't seem to find the plant specific bulbs in the 3' range of fixtures


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

dekstr said:


> With only 1 tube, I doubt Brian will need relief from light. However, floating plants will avoid algae growth by shading + nutrient uptake.


Absolutely, but if adding a more appropriate bulb puts the w/g higher you might run into trouble (I have no idea what wattage the light is now, etc.)

Brian, the bulb you have now will most likely grow algae better than plants, as dekstr suggests look for something in the 5000k-11000k range. Try Menagerie or Big Al's. Menagerie may even let you trade in your current setup for credit towards a more fitting and appropriate fixture. I would talk to Harold when you get a chance (he is on vacation right now though).

I'm also like, 100% sure you can get free duckweed there if you ask 

As for stem plants, water sprite will grow fine free floating.

I really like your idea - hopefully you can post some more pictures later on so we can see how it is going. It would also be a great hiding spot for many a pleco


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## Brian (Mar 14, 2006)

Trust me, I had to tear everything a part to try and catch 5 leopard frog plecos for zebrapl3co.

As for the fixture, I doubt they'll trade me anything, its just a shop light fixture 

I have no idea what wattage it is either... I guess I'll head to home depot today and grab a bulb


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## Brian (Mar 14, 2006)

Ah, I just checked the bulb... its a 30 watt bulb which means that is less than 1 watt per gallon

I remember reading somewhere that I am supposed to have 2 wpg? I also picked up 2 foot long pieces of driftwood with some windelev and java fern attached for 10$

Also, anyone want to recommend some dither fish? So far I only came up with cardinals, neons or CPD.


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## dekstr (Oct 23, 2007)

Brian said:


> Ah, I just checked the bulb... its a 30 watt bulb which means that is less than 1 watt per gallon
> 
> I remember reading somewhere that I am supposed to have 2 wpg? I also picked up 2 foot long pieces of driftwood with some windelev and java fern attached for 10$
> 
> Also, anyone want to recommend some dither fish? So far I only came up with cardinals, neons or CPD.


The wpg is just a rule of thumb. There is no ideal "wpg", it depends on your goals. At 2 wpg, that would be moderate lighting. It would grow most plants at a steady rate. CO2 supplementation would help greatly.

Nice stuff on the purchase of plants + driftwood!

I never really understood what "dither" fish meant. Like something attractive that takes your attention?

Cardinals, you'll need softer water that's slightly acidic. However, they might be able to acclimate to harder water.

Dwarf gouramies would be good, or some threadfin rainbows, rummynose tetras. CPD would look awesome too. So many choices, just basically any colourful peaceful smaller fish.


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## Brian (Mar 14, 2006)

I was never a fan of any gouramies for some reason  I don't know what the deal is... actually, now that I think about it, I'm not a big fan of any cichlids at all besides discus, angels or the dwarfs like gbr's. Are gouramies cichlids or labyrinth fish? lol.

Anyways, snipes just got in ta shipment of CPD and he is selling them for around 5$ a pop... too much for me right now as I would probably need at least 10 of them.

PJ's has large neons for 10 for 10$ and I also seen some harlequin rasboras. Rummynoses look pretty cool but they are kind big.

What is the main difference between cardinals and neons? I never really understood... oh yeah, they had black neons too, first time I ever saw those, lol.


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## Brian (Mar 14, 2006)

BTW - should I still throw in some watersprite?


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

Brian,

For the plants you are growing, low light (and with no c02/ferts), I would suggest keeping your wpg at 1.5 or so, 2 and above will lead to trouble.

As for fish, it might be nice to have a school of dwarf neon rainbows. Nice colours etc. and they school quite nicely.

You could also try some anubias in the tank, as they will grow with low light quite well and are very hardy. Can tie these to driftwood as well.

I've never been a big fan of watersprite, so would never recommend it really, but if you think you will be needing a siphon for excess nutrients it will work well.


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## Brian (Mar 14, 2006)

I don't think there will be any excess nutrients... I only have shrimp in there and they create basically 0 bioload.

I've never seen dwarf rainbows, I guess I'll google em 

I've been reading up black neon tetras and everyone says they are very hardy... I might try a small school of these and a smalls chool of maybe the rainbows if I like em


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## Brian (Mar 14, 2006)

I really like anubias but I can't seem to find anyone with them :S

I just googled the rainbows... definately not a fan


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

Two places I have found anubias

1. Menagerie
2. Finatics


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## Brian (Mar 14, 2006)

Thanks Chris.

Have you had any experience with Black Neon Tetras?

Got any recommendations for background plants that don't need to be plotted and are low-light?


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

Never kept Black Neon Tetra's, sorry.

Low light background plants....hmmm....

Hygrophila Polysperma grows well just about everywhere, but I would likely use them for a mid-ground plant.

What you could try is building a moss wall, which might look good considering the rest of the aquarium, I'm just not sure how hard that would be to do considering no co2 or ferts. Well, actually, I think it would be pretty damn hard to do.

To be honest, I can't think of anything that would work really well as a background...I'd suggest just doing what you were going to do, and layer driftwood with java ferns etc. and just make it denser at the back of the tank.


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## Tabatha (Dec 29, 2007)

Have you read Rex Grigg's article on "Minimum Light Threshold"?
http://www.rexgrigg.com/mlt.html

I'm just going through his website with a fine tooth comb now (have perused it before). I'm also revisiting Tom Barr's site but I was really turned off by them pushing their pdf book sales, "Greg Watson's Guide to Dosing Strategies".

Has anyone purchased this?



Brian said:


> Ah, I just checked the bulb... its a 30 watt bulb which means that is less than 1 watt per gallon
> 
> I remember reading somewhere that I am supposed to have 2 wpg? I also picked up 2 foot long pieces of driftwood with some windelev and java fern attached for 10$
> 
> Also, anyone want to recommend some dither fish? So far I only came up with cardinals, neons or CPD.


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## Brian (Mar 14, 2006)

That's true, I guess I can stack driftwood along the back and cover it that way but I just realized that its hard to find pieces of wood around here that can be used in the tank (especially pieces that have already been water logged)



Chris Stewart said:


> Never kept Black Neon Tetra's, sorry.
> 
> Low light background plants....hmmm....
> 
> ...


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## dekstr (Oct 23, 2007)

Wow this thread is going so fast.

Tom Barr and Greg Watson have greatly contributed to the planted tank hobby. I've been to Tom Barr's site and I don't think he pushes Greg Watson book sales. I've only seen the book sale push on Greg Watson's own website. Regardless, even if there are ads for his book, the information found at TB's site is incredible, he and members on the forum do some pretty interesting research on plants and etc that isn't found anywhere else. 

Umm dwarf neon rainbows would be a good choice too! CPD I've seen at Big Al's Scarborough, 3 for $10. Last time I checked was a few days ago and I think they're still there. Call in ahead to make sure I guess.

I can't think of any non-rooting plants that are good for background. Maybe Anubia or Crypt species? Moss wall? I'll keep brainstorming.

Regards,
Dexter


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## Brian (Mar 14, 2006)

Thanks Dexter... I think moss wall is out of the question though. I can't stand the look of the white mesh for a few months while waiting for the moss to grow in 

BTW - thanks for the tip on the CPD's. Has anyone had any experience buying them from BA's? Just wanted to see how hardy they are from them, lol.


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## Tabatha (Dec 29, 2007)

You can also get green mesh at craft stores, I've seen it in dollar stores too.


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## Brian (Mar 14, 2006)

Here are some updated pics of the tank. Don't mind the AC, it is only there temporarily until I fix my eheim 

Since the intial setup, I have added 2 more pieces of wood, 12 RCS (C to low B grade to see if they will survive, 2 berried females), 8 black neon tetras and 5 leopard frog plecos.

I am planning on changing my light fixture, adding some duckweed to subdue some lighting (black neon tetras look awesome in subdued lighting), change my background to black and add some more background cover somehow and maybe some celestial pearl danios.


































Berried female










Some pesky snail eggs


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## Ciddian (Mar 15, 2006)

i love those black neons.. Whats on that back bit in the right back corner?


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## Tabatha (Dec 29, 2007)

Wow, it's really starting to look good! I have to admit I was somewhat dubious when you first started this project but it's really filling in!


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## JamesG (Feb 27, 2007)

Ciddian said:


> i love those black neons.. Whats on that back bit in the right back corner?


That could be Riccia if I am not mistaken.


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## Brian (Mar 14, 2006)

Yeah Jess, James is right  its riccia. I'm not sure how well it is holding up though cause I don't know if its growing or not. I guess I'll see in a couple weeks when it is or isn't dead 

I am hoping to add a few more dither fish, either the CPDs or something else if anyone has any suggestions?

I'm also trying to think of something to add so that any baby shrimp will be able to hide in and get away from the fish as the tank is bare bottom. I suppose they can hide in the existing plants but I guess they would have a better chance if there was also some ground cover of some sort. Any suggestions?


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

Brian, I would really suggest putting a thin layer of sand or other fine material instead of a barebottom.

I just think it might look better, even if it doesn't totally cover the bottom.

Why is it you want a barebottom anyway?

Looks like it is coming along great, it will look pretty cool once you have a layered effect with various driftwood, moss and ferns.


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## Brian (Mar 14, 2006)

I just think that its easier to clean a bare bottom.

I am thinking about actually picking up some black quartz sand or w/e from one of those sand blasting places and maybe cover the bottom of my tank with it but its going to be hard to put it in now that the tank is full :S

I was thinking maybe make a makeshift tube that I can pour the sand through and have it go to the bottom if I decide to add sand.


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

A thin layer of dark sand or something won't be hard to clean...just don't do it =P


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## dekstr (Oct 23, 2007)

Well the mulm (essentially fish poop + plant debris) that builds up in the planted tank is beneficial for the plants. Also contains a lot of the bacteria involved in nitrogen cycle.

However, bare-bottom is much easier to clean--the poop just picks right up with a hose.


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## Brian (Mar 14, 2006)

I find the mulm to be disgusting, everytime I see it I pull out my python (no, not that one) which has been almost everyday now.

I assume the mulm will also build up if I have sand in there? My other problem now is that if I do decide to get the sand, I'm not sure how I will be able to put it into the existing tank.


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## Brian (Mar 14, 2006)

Its been decided and I am going to get some Soilmaster Sand (charcoal colour).

On a side note, I lost 2 of the smaller neons today... I knew they were going to die when I observed them not schooling with the rest of the neons last night.

They only had 8 left in the PJ's tank and it was 4 for 5$ so I had to get all of them even though I knew the 2 wouldn't last :S Ah well.


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## jrs (Mar 18, 2006)

Dekstr is right. Leave the mulm and only remove large pieces of it. After 6-8 months if you want then you can remove it. I dont, but you could if you wanted to.


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## Brian (Mar 14, 2006)

I guess I'll leave it there then. Does it look any less disgusting when there is substrate?


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## Brian (Mar 14, 2006)

So here are some updated shots... I changed the background, took off the AC and added 6 Celestial Pearl Danios. I currently have only 4 neons left as I lost 4 due to quality/health of fish I assume. The remaining 4 look very healthy and robust so I have my fingers crossed.

I also hope the CPDs fair well, they are very cool to watch but you need to do it from a distance as they are very elusive. They school behind all the plants and stuff. I was lucky to get a couple quick snapshots of them 










Does the riccia look like it is dying? I'm not sure because it isn't as green as I remember.


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## Brian (Mar 14, 2006)

They look even more amazing in person, very nice gold shine on them. Thanks again to TurquoiseDragon who was able to pick these guys up for me


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

Brian said:


> They look even more amazing in person, very nice gold shine on them. Thanks again to TurquoiseDragon who was able to pick these guys up for me


Wow, really like those fishies


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## Tabatha (Dec 29, 2007)

Brian, does this mean you want me to cancel your potential order?


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## Brian (Mar 14, 2006)

Oh snap, I forgot about that. Yes please Tabatha.

For anyone who would be looking, BA Scar. has them, 3 for 10$ - I called up the ones at sauga and North York, they have them for 6$ each!

Chris, they'd make a great addition to your tank


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

They would, but my tanks are full right now =(


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