# OK now, what did I do wrong?



## 50seven

Thought we'd get back into the aquarium scene by giving my son a mini aquarium for his birthday. Filled it up yesterday; bought fish today, and now they're all dead. Here's the specs:

-Tank is approx 1 Gal. (I know it's small, but we had to start somewhere. No water filter, just a grate under the substrate with an air/bubble stone coming up a tube.

-Filled yesterday with tap water (we are on a well, with an iron remover and a water softener installed in our home.)

-Put about 2 drops of Nutrafin Waste Control solution in the water.

-Air pump has been running since it was filled.

-Bought 3 Gold Neon Tetras from Big Al's and put them in the tank this afternoon. They seemed to enjoy their new home and swam around quite energetically, but paid no attention to the food we dropped in about 1/2 hour later.

-Seemed to be fine for about 3 hours, when suddenly they became quite sluggish and died a few minutes later.

What did I do wrong?

When I was a kid, we had a 30 Gal aquarium; my Dad kept real good care of it and i assume he knew what all to do with it because we had tons of healthy fish for years. I guess I didn't pick up as much as I should have, because after some reading here, I've never heard of cycling or nitrogen in the water- all we ever did was just maintain pH, clean the tank, and keep the big fish from eating the babies.

Now I feel like a complete failure.


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## AquariAM

-Tank is approx 1 Gal. (I know it's small, but we had to start somewhere. No water filter, just a grate under the substrate with an air/bubble stone coming up a tube.
*
this is an undergravel filter. i suggest a small box corner filter instead. works with your airpump. $5
*
-Filled yesterday with tap water (we are on a well, with an iron remover and a water softener installed in our home.)

*Iron remover/water softner= dead fish. You must use straight well water/tap water*

-Put about 2 drops of Nutrafin Waste Control solution in the water.

*Don't use that stuff it's pointless and causes ammonia spikes*

-Air pump has been running since it was filled.

-Bought 3 Gold Neon Tetras from Big Al's and put them in the tank this afternoon. They seemed to enjoy their new home and swam around quite energetically, but paid no attention to the food we dropped in about 1/2 hour later.
*
Essentially, you did not cycle the tank and killed the fish with ammonia, exaserbated by the waste remover, and also killed them with the softening salts and iron remover resin. The iron really isn't going to hurt your fish unless it's obscenely high levels. *

You must read about proper filtration, water changes, heat, and proper fish ( you can not keep those fish in a 1gal. a 1 gal is like a bunch of shrimp and maybe a pair of killifish).

And most importantly, the nitrogen cycle.

Go to someone from the forum, get a used filter sponge from them, put it in a corner filter, hook it up. Now go get yourself something easy to take care of for awhile to make sure you won't kill it, like a paradise fish (macropodus opercularis, google it).

Every 3 days (7 if you wish) take out about 1/3 of the water and replace with new water of the same temperature straight from the well. That's it. 
Ideally, use a small gravel vaccuum aka syphon to clean the gravel and make taking water out easier. That's all there is to proper maintenance.

So to answer your original question- absolutely everything- but don't be discouraged! We will get you on the right track!









Buy this. easier to maintain than an undergravel. Five bux.

Get used filter media from someone. You can have some of mine. Put it in the filter. Run it for a few hours. 
This is an easy way to avoid cycling your tank, which is a PITA.

You should also buy a very small heater








unless you have an extremely stable temperature in the room otherwise the tank will swing around too much temp wise.

Start with ONE of these








they're only about five dollars.

that will be your whole tank. If you can take care of a paradise gourami and have it grow and be happy, you are a successful fish keeper. This is the largest, most colorful, interesting fish you can keep in this size tank. Keep it at about 75F.

I suggest this food








NLS freshwater flake. It is a good flake. Flake is better than pellets because it is easier to feed when you're new.
Don't feed it much. it is a cool water fish. You should never see a bulge in its stomach.

Once you're cool with that you can trade the paradise away and move on to a pair of amphyosemion australe (lyretail killis) and a few shrimp.

Again, 1Gal is nothing. You need at least 10 to do anything substantial.

PS I suggest the filter because UGF as you have will clog. reliable filtration is *critical.* or absolute failure of your aquarium is inevitable.

PLEASE don't feel bad. We all killed something when we started. 

Happy valentines day.

Reference>>




PARADISE FISH





WATER CHANGES 
(find out if your well used chlorine/amine. If so, use prime. You only need ONE drop for your tank so it will last you forever. It doeses one drop/gallon, approximately)


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## 50seven

Thanks. I was afraid of that. Will do some more reading, etc.


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## AquariAM

50seven said:


> Thanks. I was afraid of that. Will do some more reading, etc.


 If you want to get in quickly and safely though, find someone on here to give you their used media. Buy the corner filter, hook your airpump to it and add the media, get a heater and thermometer, and later that day grab a paradise fish and put it in there.

Also remember when you add a fish, float it for a while to even the temp from bag to tank, t hen open the bag and add a bit of tank water to it, without letting the fish out. then every few minutes add a bit more tank water until you're at like 80% tank water to the original water, then pour most of the water out into a bucket (you never want to pour petshop water into your tank) and then gently release the fish.

You might also want to consider a plant. It's very easy to grow a lot of plants. I've grown anacharis and hornwort, both of which are great choices which you could likely receive for free from the person who gives you the media, in a 1 gal with a desk lamp. All you need is a compact fluorescent bulb (the twisty looking ones that fit into a normal light socket) on a cheap lamp. Put the lamp over the tank leave it on 10ish hours a day and your plant will grow. This will clean a bit of nitrogen out of the water, some iron, and also make your fish comfortable and give him a place to blow his bubble nest. I really suggest paradise fish as your first fish. It is hardy, intersting, interactive, and very beautiful. With your $15 investment in your paradise fish, hornwort, and a corner filter, I think you will find you have a very beautiful little aquarium. A cover is advisable- a piece of thin glass cut to size for example- since 1 gallon is not much water and it is much easier to have a fish jump from a smaller tank. Reverse drowning is a sad way to go.


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## ksimdjembe

Assuming you go with a paradise fish, (though, please don't - 1 gal is too small to do it right, 5 gal min) don't get a heater. These fish are cooler water (not cold water) fish. They can tolerate cooler temperatures close to room temp. in a 1 gal tank, you will likely stew your new friend. A better fish would be a Betta fish.


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## AquariAM

ksimdjembe said:


> Assuming you go with a paradise fish, (though, please don't - 1 gal is too small to do it right, 5 gal min) don't get a heater. These fish are cooler water (not cold water) fish. They can tolerate cooler temperatures close to room temp. in a 1 gal tank, you will likely stew your new friend. A better fish would be a Betta fish.


There are micro heaters made for 1-5G tanks now. A 1G is certainly not ideal, but it is a readily available fish and it won't suffer for living a few months in a 1G. everyone gets MTS and upgrades to a 10G after 3 months  . Though you're right- something like a female betta, assuming you can find a nice one, would be a better choice. Just keep in mind that most bettas are shipped in little 100ml bags with a solution that keeps them in a state of hibernation and kept in those bags for weeks.

The reason I suggested a heater at 75 is most homes are about 72 so this would create a more even temperature as homes tend to swing around in temp (opening windows, doors, having lots of electronics on or off, cooking, etc).

It's true that a more ideal setup would involve some cherry shrimps, a ball of moss, some hornwort and some small killis or something but both are slightly more difficult to care for, considerably more expensive, etc.


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## ksimdjembe

@ AquariAM
Some things I think we are going to have to disagree on.

@ 50seven
the air driven filter AquariAM suggests is a good idea (and a good idea to get the filter juice from someone to help start the cycling process). 
Where are you located? if you post it, perhaps someone can offer something up... I would assume that if you took care of the tank, a pair or two of endlers might work, though I still suggest the male OR female Betta. But that's just me. good luck.


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## 50seven

Thanks again, guys.

Yes, I'm going to get the corner filter; if someone here would be willing to give me some used filter media, I live near Stouffville, and work all over the East end and York region. Please let me know who's in the area and willing to give some. Send me a PM and I'll give you my cell #.

For the micro heater; where would I find one?

And I would LOVE to upgrade to a bigger tank (any size, 100 Gal. would be nice, lol) but right now my Valentine says no way  so we'll see how it goes. 

Thanks again, guys! I don't feel so hopeless anymore. Now for telling my son in the morning how Dad screwed up his fishies....

Sorry, ksim, I just can't stand Bettas. Everytime I see them anywhere, they just sit there like bumps on a log, lol. Beautiful fish, I admit, but completely useless IMO.


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## AquariAM

50seven said:


> Thanks again, guys.
> 
> Yes, I'm going to get the corner filter; if someone here would be willing to give me some used filter media, I live near Stouffville, and work all over the East end and York region. Please let me know who's in the area and willing to give some. Send me a PM and I'll give you my cell #.
> 
> For the micro heater; where would I find one?
> 
> And I would LOVE to upgrade to a bigger tank (any size, 100 Gal. would be nice, lol) but right now my Valentine says no way  so we'll see how it goes.
> 
> Thanks again, guys! I don't feel so hopeless anymore. Now for telling my son in the morning how Dad screwed up his fishies....
> 
> Sorry, ksim, I just can't stand Bettas. Everytime I see them anywhere, they just sit there like bumps on a log, lol. Beautiful fish, I admit, but completely useless IMO.


Drugged, shipped badly, dying in their own waste bettas yes. Private bred quality plakatts, etc, no. Very interactive, always doing something.


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## ksimdjembe

you could very likely get a small 5 or ten gal set with filter hood/light heater and a bunch of other stuff for around 30 or 40 dollars quite often in the classifieds section on many a forum like this. just a suggestion. that way you'd open up more possibility for fish choice which are colourful for your son. 
there are many good choices for active beginner fish. good luck!


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## 50seven

Anybody in the East end or in Markham that can give some filter media? Can't find any offers on the classifieds...

Thanks!


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## AquaNeko

AquariAM said:


> -
> 
> [/B]
> -Filled yesterday with tap water (we are on a well, with an iron remover and a water softener installed in our home.)
> 
> *Iron remover/water softner= dead fish. You must use straight well water/tap water*


Just curious but rain water ok as well? I mean off a tarp or buckets outside or roof? I'm sure off the roof is ok as well as you'll have small trace elements but the water conditioner I think would remove those chemicals. Well water IIRC is just water that has passed through the earth naturally and seeped into a well. I could be wrong as I've never had well water or owned a well before.


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## AquaNeko

50seven said:


> Thanks again, guys.
> 
> Yes, I'm going to get the corner filter; if someone here would be willing to give me some used filter media, I live near Stouffville, and work all over the East end and York region. Please let me know who's in the area and willing to give some. Send me a PM and I'll give you my cell #.
> 
> For the micro heater; where would I find one?
> 
> And I would LOVE to upgrade to a bigger tank (any size, 100 Gal. would be nice, lol) but right now my Valentine says no way  so we'll see how it goes.
> 
> Thanks again, guys! I don't feel so hopeless anymore. Now for telling my son in the morning how Dad screwed up his fishies....
> 
> Sorry, ksim, I just can't stand Bettas. Everytime I see them anywhere, they just sit there like bumps on a log, lol. Beautiful fish, I admit, but completely useless IMO.


50,

You're up in in the stovepipe? I'm not too far from you (I think 6 exits off the 404?) and sometimes go to the Wallys (Wal-Mart) at MajorMac & Bayview. I've had a DIY sponge filter run since ~Aug/09 and a small in tank power filter I use on my 5gal running dual filtration with a under gravel filter as well. I can remove a piece of the middle filter and you can use that while I replace the middle one with a new one to keep my spinner from clogging. It's well cycled since last year ~Oct/09 when I got the new filter pads when I could not find anything to fit my old power filter.

I have amassed a small collection of 1gal jugs (food grade, originally held soy drink then bleached clean, soaked to dissipate bleach out, filled with 4x declorinator (I use Prime considered the best) the first time refill then used it as normal in my tanks) which I can give you a few to make it easy for your keeping the water for your tank. My tap water pH is ~7.4-7.5. Each of my 1gal jugs has been throught 10 water change cycles and my fish have no effect (I own White Cloud Minnows, Zebra Danios, Otocinclus (dwarf catfish), and ramhorn snails)

For those mini heaters you can find them at PetsMart (probably Hwy 7 & Bayview is your closest but could be wrong) but not sure of their price. www.petsmart.com (prices in USD so divide ~1.05 for that rough 95cent exchange rate. So ie. $5 USD / 1.05 = $4.76 CDN roughly.

If you are patient and check the buy and sell section here often you will find people selling 5.5gal (standard size) tanks as they are upgrading to larger tanks. Normally used tanks go for ~$1/gal-1.50gal and if the tank is in good shape but needs a LOT of cleaning and the seller does not want to do the cleaning and you're willing to do the extra work for the saving (think of it like painting the house over hiring  ) you may see it at ~$0.50/gal tho the avg is $1/gal.

Given this is the first tank I suggest you go with a cold water setup. Even with heaters and the smallest heaters 1gal is a small amount of water and the temp shifts can swing a bit due to the small volume of water. Think of it like a er....might not be the best analogy but I thinky ou'll get what I'm saying here. Think like a mini bar fridge vs a full size standard fridge. After you've run them for say 48hrs to peak their temps inside shove a thermometer in both of them then cut the power. Obviously the small one will be effected faster over the large one. Same thing with water. More things can go wrong if the heater malfunctions in a small tank.

I recommend a White Cloud Minnows. They are active, small, can take a wide temp range +3C - +25C, cold water, EASY TO TAKE CARE, also very very low polluting fish. From what I've heard they breed easy in a backyard pond if you've got 5 or more. In that 1 gal you can pack 1-2 max in there. Or throw one in and get a snail to clean up the uneaten food/algae.

Here is a list for fish stocking according tank size. There are a lot of combos which you can work with here but IIRC 5gal is the smallest size.

5-29gal stocking ideas
3-25gal stocking ideas

I have some ramhorn snails here. They are infamous for breeding like rabbits but in a small tank it's easy to pluck out the eggs and throw them out or let them hatch and pluck the small snails out to control them. I can give you a few smaller ones. At max growth the ramhorn is 2cm.


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## 50seven

I have a creek running through my backyard. Is this a better source of water than my untreated well water?


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## bae

There's no way that anyone can tell you if your creek water is any better than your treated well water. The creek could contain pesticide and fertilizer runoff from your neighbours' gardens or farms, or fish diseases or parasites. The runoff will vary seasonally and with each rainfall.

Did you get an analysis of your water before the softener and iron remover were installed? It's possible that untreated well water would work, but there's no telling unless you have an analysis. Hard water is usually less of a problem than softened water, which is high in sodium. Whether the iron is at a level toxic to fish is something we don't know.


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## 50seven

True about the runoff, etc. -never thought of that... also seeing as there's lots of farming going on in our area. I think I'll stick with the untreated well water and get a test kit for it.


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## AquaNeko

50,

Something of a natural approach here came to mind that if you have a little space to tinker about would work well. I googled for plants that love iron and found out that pansies love iron.

I have a thread going about Aquaponics. You may want to check it out. http://gtaaquaria.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9293&highlight=aquaponics

The above water plants could filter out not only the iron but the nitrates as well to kepe the water clean. Aquarium plants do the nitrates and small bits of iron as with other trace elements.

http://gardeningandhorticulture.blogspot.com/

Unless you konw what's along that stream in your backyard that water is questionable. Well unless you're at the source of the stream then you know the conditions. Pending the current in the stream you could mess around and build a small water turbine.  I don't think the valentine would disagree with some free generated power for the fish tank.


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## AquariAM

If you know you have really hard water why not just get yourself some nice africans. Something easy like some zebras (metriaclima estherae in a 35 gallon tank or even a 20 long. They'll like your hard water. Won't mind the iron. Sure it's not ideal but it's really not a big deal for hard water fish IMO. I don't really think you'll see any significant issues. 

Depending on the level of commitment to upkeep and such and decoration and cost you're willing to go into you could have fun in a 10 gallon with lake tanganyika shell dwellers... none of this is ideal beginner stuff though. Something like a single convict cichlid in a 15 long or 20 gallon standard would work great and be a lot of fun.


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## AquaNeko

Ok this is just a NB for me as I don't normally login to GTAA when I'm in the field unless I'm on a secure connection.

Stuff for 57

-3 x 1gal jugs of Prime treated water (7.4pH) -Done
-fish food - Done
-used filter media -done
-small ramhorn snails -done
-floating plants -done

-delivered already.


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## AquaNeko

57,

http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Prime.html

More on the Prime info. I figured I'd message here then overflow the PM's.

Let us all know how the stuff worked out and how the tanks coming along. We love progress stories.


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## qwerty

Go to Walmart and buy some bottled spring water... Just use that...

It'll cost you maybe $0.20 or less every time you do a 20% water change, which isn't an awful lot, and it's probably the absolute best water you'll ever find without purchasing an RO/DI unit...

Your tank's only 1gal, so it would be pretty affordable and your fish would be thankful for it...


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## 50seven

Thanks for all the help!

I've got the new tank set up with fresh water and filter- I'll let it cycle for a week or two and post my progress with some pics.

Any recommendations on a good, yet economical water test kit? I'd like to be able to test for ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, and pH.


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## AquaNeko

API Freshwater 5 in 1 test strips. ~$15 @ Petsmart. You'll probably end up using the first 5-7 for initial testing and gaining a feel for your tank. It will last you about 6months with occasional water testing after the first few weeks and your initial testings. After you get a feel for the tank and get into the regular water change routine once a week you'll likely only use the test kit if you feel something is funny with the tank.

I recently got a API freshwater Master Kit and still have some of the test strips. I may sell the remaining strips or keep them as I'm undecided right now. The ease of the strips can't be beat to have a one eye sees all status but man do they cost a bit. A freshwater master kit is ~$34 (probably cheaper with price matching) so if you end up buying two 5in1 test strips in less then 6 months time you're better off with a master kit as you have ~800 tests via the liquid drop test tube system. Bang for money is there tho a little more involved in the mixing of the solutions then a simple dip of the 5in1.

I'd take advantage of the free service from Petsmart for water testing but don't do what some guy I know did by going in every other day asking for a test. LOL. you may as well buy a test kit then and not annoy the heck out of the staff then. Once a week is fair I think if you eventually buy an item off the store or 2 times a week later when you think the tank is nearing the end of it's cycle.


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## qwerty

Test strips are pointless... You really need the test solution, which is actually more economical over the long run anyways...

The accuracy of the strips varies too much to trust them as anything more than a true/false reading. They have something like 4ppm or higher window of error which makes them pretty useless...


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## 50seven

OK, tank has been cycling for about a week now...time to get that test kit and verify the water quality.

Temp holding at about 75 degrees F

Here's a pic...









...and someone should talk to the mods about adding an automatic picture resize option.


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## AquaNeko

Nah we love full pics.  

BTW not to get too off topic but what phone did you have when we met up? I'm thinking of upgrading my phone and yours seemed snappy on the web. What courier are you with as well? Trying to find a phone to replace my Sanyo 4920 which is a good 'candy bar' phone and the size is good. Need something to replace it but I don't think the iPhone would fit my mag pouch as the iTouch I have I don't think fits in there. Anything .45cal length works for that spacing as I can only extend the height of the bag and not the width. 

Anyways, back on topic I'm curious what other color selections did FD have when you bought your tank? I'm going to see if I can swing by and get me a 1gal tank.


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## 50seven

Phone is the HTC Magic, yes it is very snappy on the 3G network. I'm with Robbers, oops I mean Rogers. I stay with them because I have an EXCELLENT plan that works perfect for me and my business, but might not be the greatest for everyone. I get unlimited incoming !nd Rogers network calling- All my family, friends, employees and major subcontractors are with Rogers, and my customers can talk all they want... so I get 1000's of minutes free every month. 

My HTC Magic (also called the Sapphire in some countries) is 'rooted' so I could make mods to the OS, etc. which is real cool, but only recommend for techies such as yourself.

Will it fit in a mag pouch? Probably. It's smaller than the iPhone, and a bit wider than a 1911 mag. But just as thick. I use a stretchy neoprene case that it fits pretty good in, but that also can comfortably hold a mag or stretch to fit a 40mm nade.

I think that FD only has the one colour that I know of. Just heading into Petsmart now to get a test kit...


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## AquariAM

50seven said:


> OK, tank has been cycling for about a week now...time to get that test kit and verify the water quality.
> 
> Temp holding at about 75 degrees F
> 
> Here's a pic, please excuse the quality of my phone camera.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...and someone should talk to the mods about adding an automatic picture resize option.


So what are you cycling that with, a betta? Cuzz I can't see anything in there.

You realize all the shells and (is that coral substrate)? will add hardness and increase your pH right?

Was it just a high iron level that you had?
In my opinion, your well water is fine for fish. If it's potable, it should be alright. I wouldn't keep apistos or anything but there's no reason you can't keep simple things.

I'd have a really large amount of anacharis and hornwort in all your tanks to try to suck up some iron though. Carbon will remove a wee bit.


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## 50seven

I have some snails, duckweed and some used filter media, just haven't added any fish yet because I have no way of testing it. (I just picked up a test kit today)

Substrate is white gravel

I checked the untreated well water, and the iron taste is pretty much unnoticeable. Not really concerned about that anymore.

...now I just need to find a shop that sells your lovely paradise gourami


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## AquaNeko

AquariAM said:


> So what are you cycling that with, a betta? Cuzz I can't see anything in there.
> 
> You realize all the shells and (is that coral substrate)? will add hardness and increase your pH right?
> 
> Was it just a high iron level that you had?
> In my opinion, your well water is fine for fish. If it's potable, it should be alright. I wouldn't keep apistos or anything but there's no reason you can't keep simple things.
> 
> I'd have a really large amount of anacharis and hornwort in all your tanks to try to suck up some iron though. Carbon will remove a wee bit.


Cycling with this.

BTW 57, don't bother with the Petsmart or BigAl's sales pitch to buy that bio-cycle stuff. IMHO it's a rip off. BioSpira on the other hand is good from all I've heard but only if you live in the town and close to the company that makes it to see if you can aquire one off the factory line. The reasoning is that you have no idea how the storage is on those things outside of factory perimeters which can cause most of the beneficial cultures to die off due to incorrect storage and/or coupled with past due dates on the shelf.


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## AquariAM

AquaNeko said:


> Cycling with this.
> 
> BTW 57, don't bother with the Petsmart or BigAl's sales pitch to buy that bio-cycle stuff. IMHO it's a rip off. BioSpira on the other hand is good from all I've heard but only if you live in the town and close to the company that makes it to see if you can aquire one off the factory line. The reasoning is that you have no idea how the storage is on those things outside of factory perimeters which can cause most of the beneficial cultures to die off due to incorrect storage and/or coupled with past due dates on the shelf.


Is it a lot of ramshorn snails?


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## AquaNeko

AquariAM said:


> Is it a lot of ramshorn snails?


No. I gave him the smaller ones then the adults because I didn't want them breeding like rabbits for him. Given enough food and time sure the smaller ramhorns will grow a bit faster and produce more waste and likely breed a little tho the smaller ramhorns in my experience only squirt out like 2-4 eggs not like the adults which I see like 10ish eggs per clutch.

That's his main ammonia source source right now.


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## AquaNeko

57,

Any updates on the tank? Almost a month now. Hoping things went well.


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## dl88dl

50seven said:


> I have some snails, duckweed and some used filter media, just haven't added any fish yet because I have no way of testing it. (I just picked up a test kit today)
> 
> Substrate is white gravel
> 
> I checked the untreated well water, and the iron taste is pretty much unnoticeable. Not really concerned about that anymore.
> 
> ...now I just need to find a shop that sells your lovely paradise gourami


Hello 57, I do not recommend Paradise Gourami in a 1 gallon tank. This fish has the potential to grow to 4" in the right condition and environment and in that 1 gal tank it will survive with lots of maintenance but it still will never be happy. We all try and make our fishy friends happy...lol I know this is a easy fish to keep but you have to look for fish that are small...one come to mind is a Zebra Danio maybe even 2 of them. They are very easy to keep and very active. BTW, I think most well water are very hard and high in PH.


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## ksimdjembe

did you mention earlier that you figured the iron taste was not as strong? does this mean that you tasted the tank water?


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## AquariAM

dl88dl said:


> Hello 57, I do not recommend Paradise Gourami in a 1 gallon tank. This fish has the potential to grow to 4" in the right condition and environment and in that 1 gal tank it will survive with lots of maintenance but it still will never be happy. We all try and make our fishy friends happy...lol I know this is a easy fish to keep but you have to look for fish that are small...one come to mind is a Zebra Danio maybe even 2 of them. They are very easy to keep and very active. BTW, I think most well water are very hard and high in PH.


You're recommending a fish that grows to 3" and swims at about 10Km/h all the time over a fish that grows to 4" and barely moves? 
The paradise fish in the hobby today come from wild caught, pond raised, and yes, jar raised stock. People have been propogating paradise fish in a glass jar since the 1800's.

It's not ideal to keep them in a 1gal, but if you keep one in even a 120G tank you will find that after a couple of weeks it will pick the best thickest planted corner, make a bubblenest, and live in about 10 gallons of total space forever- even if given more.


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## AquaNeko

50seven ented up getting 2 neon tetras for the tank. Spoke with him today. Apparently he's still reading trace ammonia. 

I'll let him fill in the extra details as it's his tank and that's just what he told me and what I know.


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## 50seven

Yeah, I so badly wanted to get the paradise fish, but I was paranoid that I would kill it, so I picked up 2 loonie neons.

Took them home and they all lost their colour and floated sideways in the bag the whole way home, I could only imagine having to flush them down the toilet when I got home, poor things. Here I'm thinking I'm a complete aqua-loser.

Fortunately once I got them home and acclimatized to the tank, they got their colour back, but one just stayed quietly on the bottom and didn't swim or eat, so I wrote him off too. after a couple days, though they are both eating and darting around the tank, apparently healthy and bright, pigging out on fish flakes.

Yeah, I'm still getting trace amounts of ammonia, even with frequent water changes. The snails had babies already, so maybe I need to cull the bigger ones? I'm getting water straight from the well, and adding a few drops of Prime, and storing it in 4L jugs until I need it.

When to Sea U Marine today and talked to the owner there and saw all his unique fish and inverts. Wow, I am like lusting after a real reef tank now. Hopefully in about a year I'll be in a position to begin that, in the meantime I'll stick to getting a handle on the water quality if my micro 1 Gal. Thanks for the ongoing help and support, guys.


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## AquariAM

50seven said:


> Yeah, I so badly wanted to get the paradise fish, but I was paranoid that I would kill it, so I picked up 2 loonie neons.
> 
> Took them home and they all lost their colour and floated sideways in the bag the whole way home, I could only imagine having to flush them down the toilet when I got home, poor things. Here I'm thinking I'm a complete aqua-loser.
> 
> Fortunately once I got them home and acclimatized to the tank, they got their colour back, but one just stayed quietly on the bottom and didn't swim or eat, so I wrote him off too. after a couple days, though they are both eating and darting around the tank, apparently healthy and bright, pigging out on fish flakes.
> 
> Yeah, I'm still getting trace amounts of ammonia, even with frequent water changes. The snails had babies already, so maybe I need to cull the bigger ones? I'm getting water straight from the well, and adding a few drops of Prime, and storing it in 4L jugs until I need it.
> 
> When to Sea U Marine today and talked to the owner there and saw all his unique fish and inverts. Wow, I am like lusting after a real reef tank now. Hopefully in about a year I'll be in a position to begin that, in the meantime I'll stick to getting a handle on the water quality if my micro 1 Gal. Thanks for the ongoing help and support, guys.


Neons can't live in 1 gal. 
Guaranteed loss there. Why don't you get a female betta and start there?


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## AquaNeko

AquariAM said:


> Neons can't live in 1 gal.
> Guaranteed loss there. Why don't you get a female betta and start there?


OP didn't want a betta for some past experience with them IIRC. Not sure why he got the neons but I have read before some people managed to keep 1-2 neons in a 1gal tank for a year or so with no issues just more water changing IIRC what I've read in some forums. Seems a little small but everyone learns some how.

Forgot to mention 57 had the Tetra's for a week and they colored back up so not sure if it was a week today or when. Could be more then a week now. It seems from what I've read on different forums, here, and jsut in my experience if the fish is going to pass it would have done so before the end of the week. Tho I don't think I've heard anything about the tank going cloudy recently which may signal a incomplete cycled tank.


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## AquaNeko

57,

If you check this thread on the way to the meet up today I'll be extracting my filter floss for you. I take it some how your tank has not fully cycled up even with the small piece of filter sponge I gave you. I'm not rinsing this filter floss this time so it'll be packed full of goodness and about 2-3 more uses after you rinse it out and reuse it before the shape really breaks up on you.

Got you j.moss as well. You said hot chocolate right?


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## 50seven

I got home today expecting to do a much-needed water change, seeing as I had ammonia still showing up a few days ago and hadn't had time to change any more water. I was actually ready to cringe at the ammonia & nitrite levels. Poor fish.

But it cycled! Ammonia and nitrites are both a perfect zero! YAY!


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## 50seven

OK, Been a while since I've updated. I'll have to wait later for pics as I have no good camera for close-ups right now, but our two swimmies are doing very well and seem to enjoy their mundane existence. They're not afraid of me cleaning the tank anymore; and they now come to eat the instant that the food is placed in the top of the tank. (They eat like pigs- I have to seriously ration their food- only a couple tiny flakes each or else they get tummy aches and swim around like I do after gorging myself at the Chinese all-you-can-eat buffet, LOL)

Getting a bit of brown algae problems; I have to clean the tank it seems like every week to keep it looking nice and clear and clean. Maybe it's just me, but it seems like the algae is growing a bit fast. Anything I can do?


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## KhuliLoachFan

I have one of those mini-bow tanks too. 1 gal or so. I have some very happy guppy fry in there. I take them out when they get big enough that this little tank would hurt them. 

I modified a small heater and drilled holes in the lid of the mini-bow so it now has an integral heater. 

It's at my office.

I really really don't think anything under 10gal is going to give your pet a long life, though.


W


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## 50seven

Anybody have any ideas/help with the yucky brown algae???


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## AquaNeko

50seven said:


> Anybody have any ideas/help with the yucky brown algae???


What happened tot he ramhorns I gave you? They will chompsky on them IIRC. I think some small red cherry shrimp will nom nom on them with little bioload.


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## makindue

Hi ksimdjembe. Can you give me kinds of fish that is the best?


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## KhuliLoachFan

makindue, why don't you start a new thread and talk about what you want to do and people will chime in.

W


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## 50seven

AquaNeko said:


> What happened tot he ramhorns I gave you? They will chompsky on them IIRC. I think some small red cherry shrimp will nom nom on them with little bioload.


Unfortunately they all died suddenly a couple of weeks after the tank first cycled properly. They had eggs and everything was going so well, and then suddenly they died for no apparent reason.


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## AquaNeko

50seven said:


> Unfortunately they all died suddenly a couple of weeks after the tank first cycled properly. They had eggs and everything was going so well, and then suddenly they died for no apparent reason.


Probably ammonia/nitrite poisoning or starved. I've got some ramhorns here still if you're passing by the area. I fin that by interbreeding them I'm getting some random line stripe dot pattern on some of them.

Anyways you still using that 1gal? Qiaable and Jamesren have red cherry shrimp in the area. Qiaable has adult's at 50cents each and I've seen a couple that are pregnant.  I honestly don't kno about the brown algae. A photo would help others help you out there.

BTW ghetto macro on the fly IIRC is get a magnifying lense and hold it infront of the camera then take the photo. If you shoot guns then you know of the breath holding for no more then 5 secs forthe shot. I've not tried that before but it is somethign that has been mentioned from some other camera poeple I've worked with before when they were in a pinch. Obviously if you tape the lens it'll work better. Hold magnifying glass, get camera ready, get in a rock steady position or bench rested, deep breath and take a few shots and pick the shot that works.

I think one way is using DIY co2 (2L bottle, air line tube, 1 air stone, one air line regulator thing (cheap), yeast, sugar, baking soda) but it'll effec tthe ph in the tank thou. I dose with Seachem Excel myself. Can be found at almost any LFS.Print out from www.mops.com in the plant care area and price match at BigAl's. 500mL is what I have andI got it for ~$11ish with price matching. I think it ws $4 savings. I dose 5mL in a 10gal tank. For your 1gal a 250mL bottle should last you a while. Syringes are ~50cents to ~$1.00 at Shoppers and you ask at the pharmacy. BE prepared for a WTFH!? look when you mention you want it for aquarium chemical dosing use as they ask what you'll be using it for hen consider selling it to you or not.


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## 50seven

I'm currently assembling a 35 G with 25 G sump for a marine setup. I'm taking my time, though...

In the meantime I do want to keep the 2 tetras happy and clean. I'll PM you when I'm in the area next and maybe I can snitch off a couple snails, thanks for the offer.

nice idea for the macro lens, I'll have to try that one out!

No worries, I have a farm supply store down the street from me and I get syringes there all the time for my printer refill ink. They don't give any trouble 'cuz they know me (I used to work there, LOL).


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