# Changing Substrate & Cycle question



## flanneryc (Jul 25, 2009)

Hi All,

I have a 6GA fluval edge at work that is fully cycled and the home to some nice shrimp and various low tech plants. I use regular de-chlorinated tap water for my WC's and top ups. PH is about 7.6.

I'm thinking about changing the substrate in my tank from a basic gravel and black finer gravel to ADA or Netlea so that I can give an even better home to the specific shrimp in this thank. 

I believe that I should remove the shrimp, water and plants before removing the basic gravel (might leave the finer black gravel in there) so that I can re-acclimate the shrimp to any chemical changes the water will go through with the new substrate. However, I'm wondering if changing all or some of the substrate will require me to do another cycle? Does anyone know? Any input would be appreciated.

Also, is it beneficial to switch to R/O water if I really want to make the best environment for my work shrimp, or does it make that much of a difference?

Thanks,
Chris


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

changing substrate can make a huge difference in cycle if it is one that leaches ammonia which I believe netlea does.

If there is no ammonia leaching, you can change substrate fairly painlessly. Some bacteria will be lost with the old substrate but the tank should bounce back very fast, day or so at most. Just keep an eye on levels and be ready to do a water change if needed.

if the new substrate does leach ammonia, you will need to be careful as ammonia and nitrites can easily spike. The stock might not be safe but being an established filter, it should bounce back fairly fast, maybe a week. Probably best to rehome the current stock for a while until the filter catches up with the new substrate


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## woopderson (Feb 12, 2014)

Proceed with caution on the Amazonia as well. It leaches ammonia by design.


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## flanneryc (Jul 25, 2009)

Thanks all.. 

Does anyone know of a good shrimp substrate, that helps keep the PH lower and stable, that doesn't leach ammonia? 

If not, I may have to re-house the shrimp in the tank until I can get a new substrate cycled and then move them back. Lot's of extra stress, but worth it if the new substrate will leak ammonia and put them at risk of death.

OR I can leave it the way it is and manage the PH with another product.

Thanks for your input!


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## woopderson (Feb 12, 2014)

Fluval shrimp stratum might be your best bet. It suits Neos well, apparently cycles relatively quick, and from a quick read doesn't leach.


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## Mykuhl (Apr 8, 2013)

I have read that the fluval shrimp stratum does not leach ammonia and it does lower ph but that it does not keep it lowered for long. Apparently ADA and Netlea keeps the ph lowered for a year or more, but they do leech ammonia for a while.

What type of shrimp are you keeping right now that you want to move? If they are currently healthy and breeding in the set up they are in now, no need to move them into another environment where you will have to constantly manage ph. A stable ph is much better than a ph that is constantly changing due to you altering it to get it to the ideal.


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## aniroc (Aug 23, 2012)

ADA is for plants, not for shrimps. It does leach ammonia but it lowers the pH as well, making ammonia non toxic. A large water change however, could raise pH above 7, ammonia becomes toxic at least until pH drops again. 
ADA will give you a free cycle (free ammonia) and if you want to wait a month, it will reward you with a good substrate for plants.
I believe not all ADA soil do that. The type I am talking about is "New Amazonia"


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## creature55 (Apr 3, 2014)

I use ADA aquasoil amazonia for my crystal and taiwan bee tank and they are truly thriving. The pH is a constant 6.4 which is perfect for them. I hear Netlea is very similar, but haven't tried it. It has the added bonus of being great for plants. If you choose not to go with an active soil (that lowers pH), your adults should be okay, but the babies might not survive (this I've heard from someone else's experience).

I would recommend (if you aren't in a rush) to get ADA or Netlea and to cycle it in a big bucket or something for 3 weeks to a month...changing the water several times in the first week and then once a week or so after that. Keep testing for ammonia. It would be a TERRIBLE idea to throw it into an established tank without cycling. 

If you use RO water instead of tap, the buffering ability of this soil will last much longer than a year. Using tap will reduce the effectiveness much more quickly. This goes for all active soils. Oh and one of the main benefits of using RO water is to keep your TDS down...have you tested it? My tap water comes out at close to 200, which is at the "recommended" upper limit for shrimp (though I know of people who keep Neos at much higher TDS).


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## aniroc (Aug 23, 2012)

How is ADA Amazonia buffering the water when it is lowering the KH?
Is it about phosphates buffer?


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## creature55 (Apr 3, 2014)

aniroc said:


> How is ADA Amazonia buffering the water when it is lowering the KH?
> Is it about phosphates buffer?


It took my KH from around 5 from to 0-1. Not sure what you are asking about phosphates.


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## aniroc (Aug 23, 2012)

It did the same with my water. Since KH is your buffering, lowering it lead to less buffered water. Thus, Amazonia has a negative impact on how stable a pH is in the water.
Please educate me. You are not the only one saying that Amazonia is losing buffering capacity (unless you use RO to preserve it), making me think that I misunderstood something....


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## creature55 (Apr 3, 2014)

Sorry for the confusion! Probably just semantics. What I am trying to say is that ADA lowers the pH of the water. At the same time though, it does lower the KH...which means the pH is more prone to swings. Crystal/taiwan bee tanks should have a low pH and KH ideally....which is why it's not very advisable to inject CO2 in shrimp tanks because there is often not enough KH to keep the pH stable. If you aren't injecting CO2 though, the pH (in my experience) tends to be very stable even with a low KH. Hope that helps.


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## aniroc (Aug 23, 2012)

It does. Thank you...
I was going crazy trying to understand. Xridder has a similar question on the Planted tank section, asking about preserving the buffering capacity..
It is actually the opposite: Amazonia is not buffering, its reducing the buffering of the water. 
Yes, it has "cation exchange capacity" and I asked about it. It binds cations like Ca++ in exchange for 2H+, thus acidify the water while softening it. Here, RODI will help preserve. Since RODI has no Ca, CEC is preserved.
Since I have your attention: what is your opinion about granular shape turning into mush? 
Hint: Amazonia comes in powder as well.

Thanks again


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## creature55 (Apr 3, 2014)

I think the problem is that a lot of people sort of misuse the term "buffering" to say that it lowers pH. They don't necessarily mean "regulating fluctuations" in the standard sense of the word. It's just terminology. 

RO water will maintain both the cation exchange capabality as well as the pH lowering effects since they go hand in hand, I believe.

I've never had Amazonia long enough to see it turn to mud. I only have the regular type (not powder type) and it's going strong so far!


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