# Anyone using the black sand from menageries in a shrimp tank?



## jon021 (May 19, 2009)

I've been experiencing some issues with my almost 2 month old shrimp tank. I started losing shrimp daily, I initially thought it was my flourish excel killing them - which still may have been a factor, but i've stopped dosing any ferts for the past 3 weeks. I 've already removed anything that could have attributed to the deaths - driftwood, and rocks (granite) but it doesn't seem to be helping. The only thing left in the tank is the sand that i picked up from menageries. My otos don't seem to be having any issues, but my shrimp are dying off really quickly. To date, i've lost 6 yellow shrimp, 2 amanos, 8 bumblebee shrimp, and 6 crystal red shrimp. 

I'm hoping someone else here has used the black sand in their shrimp tanks without any problems, therefore eliminating it as one of the possible factors of the shrimp deaths. If no one has, i'll have no choice but to tear the tank down and start it fresh with some eco-complete or another substrate. The black sand which i'm referring to is the one that is being sold in the barrels for $1 a pound i believe. 

Thanks for your help.


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## Philip.Chan.92 (Apr 25, 2010)

Test your water, what are the levels of ammonia etc? Shrimps are extremely sensitive to nitrates and ammonia and are equally sensitive to change in water conditions.


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## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

It's not the sand. I'd blame ferts way before I blamed sand. I wouldn't use ferts and especially not excel with shrimp. I've seen it kill them. IMO they've been damaged and you're still getting deaths from the pre-existing damage. Probably excel. I've seen first hand what excel does to amano shrimp and it isn't pretty. Even at a half dose it makes them noticeably unwell.


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## qualityshrimpz (Dec 15, 2009)

I agree, the flourish probably left a residual in the tank that your shrimp are susceptable to when molting


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## dl88dl (Mar 8, 2010)

I have been using the the black moon sand for over a year without any issues in my shrimp tank but never use any flourish excel or any ferts.


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## jon021 (May 19, 2009)

hey thanks for the help, i guess i'll still tear down the tank but reuse the sand and safe myself some cash. The weird thing is that i added 5 crystal reds after i stopped the dosing and i lost those guys as well, i changed about 90% of the water (over an interval of several days) before i put them in. 

How would you guys suggest i go about redoing the tank? Should i rinse the sand before i set it back up again?


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## jon021 (May 19, 2009)

I'm not sure whether the sand from menageries is really moon sand, or something that they call "black beauty" which is a powdered iron slag. Can anyone confirm which type of sand it is please?


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## jon021 (May 19, 2009)

this is some info i found online: 

"Black beauty sand is also used by the sand-blasting industry and can be purchased in home supply stores. It is not naturally occurring sand; it is powdered iron slag. The iron will affect the chemistry of your aquarium and this must of course be taken into consideration. Powdered iron slag can have pretty sharp edges and is therefore not the best choice for species continuously sift sand. 

Another example of comparatively expensive sand is the beautiful, but costly, black Tahitian moon sand. Black Tahitian moon sand is commonly used to make colourful fish look even more flamboyant in aquariums, since their flashy colouration will contrast sharply against the black sand. Unlike black beauty, back Tahitian moon sand is not made from iron slag."


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## jon021 (May 19, 2009)

sorry about the multiple posts, but i'm starting to think that the sand is not moon sand but iron slag, i found an old thread where harold mentioned it as being slag - http://www.gtaaquaria.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9961&page=3. I'm concerned that even trace amounts of metals in the slag are dangerous for my shrimp.

I honestly would prefer not to spend any money on replacing the substrate, but i've already lost $80 worth of shrimp. Right now, I'm leaning towards replacing the substrate since i can't 100% rule out the substrate at this moment. I don't want to reuse the sand and then have the same issues again. I'm aware that it could easily be the residual chemicals from the ferts as some of you guys mentioned, but after contacting Seachem and explaining my situation, they told me that the excel only stays in the water for 24 hours, while the flourish would have been almost fully removed after the multiple water changes i did. And i've used flourish and flourish excel regularly in my other crs tank without any deaths, but i only dose weekly after water changes.

I really appreciate everyone's help on this issue.


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## BillD (Jun 5, 2006)

When I went to the actual Black Beauty website, they claimed it was coal slag and ideal for aquariums. The black blasting sand I have is nickel slag, and so far no issues.


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## jon021 (May 19, 2009)

BillD said:


> When I went to the actual Black Beauty website, they claimed it was coal slag and ideal for aquariums. The black blasting sand I have is nickel slag, and so far no issues.


Do you get a brown coloured buildup on the surface of your sand? I don't know if thats waste, brown algae or rust. From what it sounds like in the old thread that i posted, it seems that this sand i have is copper slag - but copper would have more immediate effects on the shrimp - no?


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## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

Menagerie keeps amano shrimp in tanks that have this sand. They don't die. Your pipes are copper. I'd worry more about that (not actually worry but I'm putting it in perspective) over apparently inert slag.


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## jon021 (May 19, 2009)

AquariAM said:


> Menagerie keeps amano shrimp in tanks that have this sand. They don't die. Your pipes are copper. I'd worry more about that (not actually worry but I'm putting it in perspective) over apparently inert slag.


You made a great point AquariAM, i'm gonna give this sand another try and see how it goes. I'll tear the tank down, and rinse everything out and put it back together again. Do you think its necessary to bleach everything or is a good rinsing enough?


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## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

jon021 said:


> You made a great point AquariAM, i'm gonna give this sand another try and see how it goes. I'll tear the tank down, and rinse everything out and put it back together again. Do you think its necessary to bleach everything or is a good rinsing enough?


What?

Why would you tear the tank down? Just stop dosing ferts


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## jon021 (May 19, 2009)

AquariAM said:


> What?
> 
> Why would you tear the tank down? Just stop dosing ferts


I haven't been dosing ferts in over 3 weeks now, and i'm still experiencing deaths with shrimp that have just recently been added.


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

I use the black sand from Menagerie in a shrimp tank (I breed cherries to use as live food) and have experienced no problems with it.

The sand is actually the same sand Menagerie is using in all their tanks as well.

The sand is called "Black Shot #20", manufactered by Bell & Mackenzie and is inert. I believe it is lead slag (something like .11%). Great stuff =D


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## jon021 (May 19, 2009)

Chris S said:


> I use the black sand from Menagerie in a shrimp tank (I breed cherries to use as live food) and have experienced no problems with it.
> 
> The sand is actually the same sand Menagerie is using in all their tanks as well.
> 
> The sand is called "Black Shot #20", manufactered by Bell & Mackenzie and is inert. I believe it is lead slag (something like .11%). Great stuff =D


The sand is definitely staying then - thanks for saving me some cash  I had several berried female shrimp in this tank before, but they always ended up dropping their eggs. Hopefully after i get things stabilized i'll be successful this time around.


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

How big is the tank?


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## jon021 (May 19, 2009)

Chris S said:


> How big is the tank?


It's a 10 gallon tank


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

I might suggest trying to keep only one species of shrimp in a 10g tank.

Have you tested your water for ammonia/nitrite, and what sort of filtration do you use?


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## jon021 (May 19, 2009)

Chris S said:


> I might suggest trying to keep only one species of shrimp in a 10g tank.
> 
> Have you tested your water for ammonia/nitrite, and what sort of filtration do you use?


I'm probably going to just keep some of my crystal reds in that tank, i've been testing my water over the past few weeks and ammonia is 0, Nitrites are 0, same with nitrates. I run an Aquaclear20 on my tank with a sponge prefilter. Temp is kept at 77F, lighting is a 28 watt fixture on for 9 hours a day, and only chemical i use on the tank now is seachem prime during water changes.


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

Sort of unrelated, but I've had more success breeding cherries using a sponge filter. Less little guys riding the impeller =D

Edit: Sorry, didn't read properly that you are using a prefilter =D


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## jon021 (May 19, 2009)

Chris S said:


> Sort of unrelated, but I've had more success breeding cherries using a sponge filter. Less little guys riding the impeller =D
> 
> Edit: Sorry, didn't read properly that you are using a prefilter =D


No worries, i chose the hob over a sponge filter cuz i'm setting it up as an iwagummi style tank - or atleast trying to. The sponge filter would be too difficult to hide.


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