# To Feed or Not To Feed? ...and why?



## LTPGuy (Aug 8, 2012)

Please help me understand.

Everywhere I read, everyone speak that you only feed your shrimps for 1-2 hours, and then only for 2-3 days a week.

I need to know why?

Does overfeeding kill the shrimps? If so, why?

Does food spoilage kill the shrimps? If so, is it the ammonia? The nitrate? The bacteria?

My setup is medium to heavily planted, with hard and alkaline water. pH is higher than 8.

Thanks very much in advance.


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## randy (Jan 29, 2012)

I think bacteria is the main concern in overfeeding, since they are invisible, very hard to deal with, and you don't know you have this until you see dead shrimps.

The more you feed your shrimps the faster they will grow and breed, but if the water quality is compromised then they will die. It's a trade off. No one can really tell you the best amount.

Other things caused by overfeeding,
- Nitrate. (even ammonia/nitrite if filtration isn't enough)
- Unwanted critters (nematodes, hydras, snails, planaria, scud), these will com out of nowhere when you over feed.


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## LTPGuy (Aug 8, 2012)

randy said:


> I think bacteria is the main concern in overfeeding, since they are invisible, very hard to deal with, and you don't know you have this until you see dead shrimps.
> 
> The more you feed your shrimps the faster they will grow and breed, but if the water quality is compromised then they will die. It's a trade off. No one can really tell you the best amount.
> 
> ...


Ok, so it is not over eating that kills the shrimps. So does 2-3 hours of feed is magic duration determined from experience as compromise between growth and longevity?

Does any of the unwanted critters mentioned harms the shrimps. I've read that hydras may attack babies, but the other critters?

BTW, I love your blog Randy.


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## xriddler (Feb 16, 2012)

i have read that planaria does attack shrimp. People usually mix up planaria and detritus worms. Worms are harmless just an eyesore but planaria are known killers of shrimp of course it is if they catch the shrimp. hydras yes and this is one thing that has me worried atm. scuds have been known to kills shrimp too they latch on and byebye shrimp  as for snails i have not read any that have killed shrimp yet but others have seen them devour some that may have already been dead.


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## lovevc (Nov 24, 2010)

didnt know nematodes, hydras, snails, planaria, scud will com out of nowhere when you over feed


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

I'd disagree with that, lovevc. They don't come from 'nowhere'. They come with plants, for the most part, but often as eggs, which we don't see until enough have hatched and grown up big enough to be seen. Some of these species eggs or egg cases can lie dormant for very long periods of time, just waiting for the right conditions to hatch. Sand or soil is a source of many organisms, and so can some substrates be.

If you rigorously clean new plants, and keep them quaratined for awhile before adding them to a tank, you can vastly reduce the number and type of critter that might show up. But most of us don't do that. We should, but we don't. Did you read the post from bettaforu, where she lost a tank of expensive shrimp overnight, to possible pesticide residues on newly purchased plants ? Another good reason to QT plants for a few days at least, in a bucket, with light and an air stone running to prevent stagnation.

Even bacteria don't just 'appear', though back before Pasteur and other early pioneers, that's what was believed. But we learned they are just everywhere, on everything.The food we feed has bacteria on it. WE are covered in the things ! Surfaces of all kinds have bacteria. One of the dirtiest places in most homes is the kitchen sink.. not the toilet. Air can move some bacteria around from place to place, but air, of itself, does not support bacterial colonies. But it can blow them around where they might find a hew home.

Fungal spores and algae are everywhere in air too. Once they get wet, they can reproduce, very, very quickly. So leftover foods, especially meaty foods, can produce vast numbers of some bacteria in surprisingly short spaces of time. Ever do a test in school where you scraped under your nails and put the result on a petri dish of agar agar ? It's disturbing, not only what grows, but how FAST it grows ! 

Leave a few bits of leaf or plant in a container of clean water and ignore it for a few days. Then sniff.. ugh.. swamp water - just gross. Because the bacteria on the plants reproduced, and the plants begin to decay, providing food for them and homes for fungal spores that are everywhere. 

Thus the various 'rules' about how long to leave food available, which are estimates bases on varied experiences, for the most part. So long as you don't have a lot of excess food lying around overnight or for days, you likely won't have a problem, but if you constantly overfeed, bacterial bloom is a possible result. Snails are useful for cleaning up bits of leftovers and I can't imagine a tank without at least one or two snails for this reason. Most do not touch shrimps. I have planaria in one tank, which has a lot of scuds in it as well, and Amano shrimp, for the moment. No problems, because no baby shrimp, but the planaria I've seen so far are not big enough even to get at the scuds, which would be much more likely prey items.

Also bear in mind that shrimp are scavengers who can survive for a long time with NO feeding at all. They eat biofilm, which is made of up bacteria, micro algaes & infusoria. It lives in the tank on every surface, including plants, rocks and glass. This is why it is a bad idea to keep shrimp, and many fish too, in a newly set up tank, because there has not been time for a nice buildup of biofilm or infusoria which they need. I would not be surprised if it was because there is some sort of symbiotic relationship between some of our wet pets and the bio film in the tanks, albeit, one we don't yet understand or know about.

But all those critters that may show up, don't simply appear. They are added, unintentially as a rule, by us, every time we put something into the water.


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## LTPGuy (Aug 8, 2012)

Thanks Fishfur for the well elucidated insight!

In general, how long can I NOT feed my shrimps; assuming that they will graze on the plentiful algae and biofilm already in the tank. 

Furthermore, if there are algae and bio-film aplenty, do I need to feed my shrimps?

I'll do some more reading on the scud, planaria, etc... 

But if I stop adding food to the tank, and shrimps are surviving from algae and bio-film, will these other bugs disappear, or have the population drastically reduced?


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## lovevc (Nov 24, 2010)

i have 22 adult crs with couple babies in my 10g, i feed them once a week with mosura crs specialty.. they dont go crazy about it, and most of them just keep eating my driftwood i suppose they have enough biofilm and oganisms to eat


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

From what I have read, if you stop feeding for long enough, the population of such things as planaria is supposed to be very much reduced. If you put in a planaria trap, you can get rid of quite a few over a short time. There's lots of info on simple traps if you ask mr google.

But if you want healthy, breeding shrimp, it would likely be prudent to take advantage of what has been learned and feed them some of the foods known to promote good health and colour. Biofilm is not going to enhance colour, unless there is lot of algae available to graze on. Some algaes have a lot of the substances that help enhance colouration.

Truth be told, I am not at all sure how long shrimp can survive without being given any extra food in a tank of any given size. No two tanks are the same, for one thing. Even if they are the same basic volume, what's in them won't be the same. That alone would cause a lot of variation. 

But even fish can go for at least one week without food. If we have enough water, humans can live for many weeks without any food at all. We would not want to, but we CAN, if we must. I've seen several comments that people have gone on two week vacations and not fed their fish for that whole time, without any dire results. And shrimp can last quite a bit longer than fish can.

It would also depend on stocking levels of course, but I'd feel quite safe not feeding for two weeks, and quite possibly for a month. Might be much longer if the stock level was low and the tank had LOTS of hardscape to grow biofilm, a sponge filter and plenty of plants, especially mosses. Mosses have an enormous surface area to provide biofilm, compared to a more usual leafy plant, so there is going to be a lot of good stuff to eat on moss. And like a grass pasture, biofilm is always growing. Even if they eat it all in one spot, they'll move to another, and while they're away, the bare spot will fill in again.
If stocks were light, and all other parameters were maintained at reasonably optimal levels, shrimp might go a few months, possibly, just on what they can scrounge. It might reduce breeding, might even stop breeding, but chances are most of the shrimp would survive. 

However, I have to qualify all this, because it's mostly speculation on my part. There are so many variables, it's not really possible to say how long a given tank of shrimp would survive without any supplemental feeding.

I've been watching the scud tank, and the numbers of planaria in it appear to be slowly increasing, even though I only feed a couple of times a week, and not much when I do feed. Tank has a lot of java moss in it, and I don't want the scuds to eat the moss, which they will if they are starving, so I was feeding them once a week, with a really tiny piece of an algae tab. 

Now that it has the Amano shrimp in there too, I feed this tank twice a week, about the same amount, but twice rather than once. It appears to be enough to keep the planaria going, though they actually seem to spend a lot of their time on the moss too, gliding along the moss branches. It seems they are eating biofilm too.


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## bettaforu (Sep 6, 2009)

Ive left mine for a week even Taiwans! I only feed every other day and vary the food I feed. 

If you are needing to go away and are worried they might starve, just pop a couple or more of barley straw pellets in the tank and what doesn't get eaten over time with help clean the water. 

Its one of the only foods that shrimps love and pick over periodically that can be left in a tank and not cleaned up with NO problems.

As was stated above, overfeeding each day will bring out planaria, worms of all sorts, hydra (very bad for shrimps) and scuds grow fast on left over foods.


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## LTPGuy (Aug 8, 2012)

*Losing battle?*

The way I see it, it's a losing battle unless a strong maintenance regime is enforced - namely vacuuming.

Even with minimal feed, shrimp will eat algae & biofilm and produces waste which promote more algae, biofilm, microbes. Nematode and planaria will feed on these and the microbe. I don't have enough experience in shrimp only setup to know better.

I wonder in my case it was my missing female that died hidden and hence was a source of food for the planaria.


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## coldmantis (Apr 5, 2010)

I did an experiment long ago with an unfiltered 5.5 gallon left in the backyard. This was done in the summer time so the water was very hot probably 90f+ I kept some cherry shrimps there for about 4 months and I think in the 4 months time I feed them like twice. They breed in the tank. Low survival rate though since it was 90f+.


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