# Articles on Ich Treatment in Marine tanks



## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

*Very good Articles on Ich Treatment in Marine tanks*

Looks like I got ich and here is the reason why I start reading. *What I found today, that there is no way to threat ich in the main tank without killing livestock*
To say in general, you should dismantle whole tank to get fishes to the empty tank.  (80G + 200Lbs of LR + ~ 30 corals)

these are the best that I found (in my opinion)
*
Marine Ich - Myths and Facts *
http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/fish-diseases-treatments/23132-marine-ich-myths-facts.html

*Copper - Treatment, Use, Problems *

http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums...ents/23130-copper-treatment-use-problems.html

*A Hyposalinity Treatment Process *

http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums...nts/23131-hyposalinity-treatment-process.html

*Curing Fish of Marine Ich*

http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/fish-diseases-treatments/52236-curing-fish-marine-ich.html

*100% free webcam site! | Awesome chicks and it is absolutely free! | Watch free live sex cam - easy as 1-2-3*


----------



## sinner (Sep 25, 2010)

sig said:


> Looks like I got ich and here is the reason why I start reading. *What I found today, that there is no way to threat ich in the main tank without killing livestock*
> To say in general, you should dismantle whole tank to get fishes to the empty tank.  (80G + 200Lbs of LR + ~ 30 corals)
> 
> these are the best that I found (in my opinion)
> ...


LEEBCA - follow this mans articles. i did,
he knows what he's talking about and well respected.

my fish are now (hopefully) cured..

I didnt empty my tank, i set up a small 15 gallon wallmart (35.99) tank as a quarintine tank,

I followed the Hyposalintiy method..

I am currently on the incline on salinity now, last night back up to .020 allmost and .026 will hold there to verifiy there cured then I'll have a nice healthy tank & fish 

it was my fault for not quariniting new fish.. now i have the "QT" tank. it will not happen again.


----------



## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

sinner said:


> LEEBCA - follow this mans articles. i did,
> he knows what he's talking about and well respected.
> I didnt empty my tank, i set up a small 15 gallon wallmart (35.99) tank as a quarintine tank,


I assume you took your fish out for cure, but what will you do with the main tank? As per this guy, you need at least 11 months to run the tank with corals and etc, to get free of ich

*100% free webcam site! | Awesome chicks and it is absolutely free! | Watch free live sex cam - easy as 1-2-3*


----------



## sinner (Sep 25, 2010)

sig said:


> I assume you took your fish out for cure, but what will you do with the main tank? As per this guy, you need at least 11 months to run the tank with corals and etc, to get free of ich


perhaps i read it wrong,

but Ich can _*only*_ live on fish. 
8 weeks in a fishless tank is "ushally" enough for 2 complete ich life cycles. 
and if there is no fish in the tank the cycle cannot complete.

my tank has been fishless for 9 weeks now.
under most circumstances this should be enough


----------



## sinner (Sep 25, 2010)

sinner said:


> perhaps i read it wrong,
> 
> but Ich can _*only*_ live on fish.
> 8 weeks in a fishless tank is "ushally" enough for 2 complete ich life cycles.
> ...


i beleive you are speaking of:

14. INTERESTING FIND: If no new MI is introduce into an infected aquarium, the MI already there continues to cycle through multiple generations until about 10 to 11 months when the MI has 'worn itself out' and becomes less infective. A tank can be free of an MI infestation if it is never exposed to new MI parasites for over 11 months.

i read this as to pertaining if you KEEP the fish in the tank for 11 moths,
that is the ONLY way the ich can complete a life cycle., 
ICH will die without a fish Host.

if you read further down you wil see

10. Let aquarium go fishless (without any foreign saltwater additions (e.g., water from LFS system, water from another tank or system -- use only distilled or RO/DI for evaporation and freshly made, uncontaminated salt water for water changes), without contamination from infected tanks, live rock additions, etc.) for at least 8 weeks and the tank will be free of MI. This 'fallow period' has over a 99.9% chance of success. Keep the aquarium running normally -- lighting on as usual, pumps, filtration, feeding inverts, and maintain normal tropical temperatures (78F is good).


----------



## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

sinner said:


> i beleive you are speaking of:
> 
> 14. INTERESTING FIND: I*f no new MI is introduce into an infected aquarium, the MI already there continues to cycle through multiple generations until about 10 to 11 months when the MI has 'worn itself out' and becomes less infective. A tank can be free of an MI infestation if it is never exposed to new MI parasites for over 11 months.*
> 
> ...


yes. looks like I missed it


*100% free webcam site! | Awesome chicks and it is absolutely free! | Watch free live sex cam - easy as 1-2-3*


----------



## sinner (Sep 25, 2010)

sig said:


> yes. looks like I missed it


no worries 
prolly would have helped if he underlined no _*"NEW"*_ MI 

Leebca really helped me out,, and if you post your questions in the RS forum on fish sicknesses he does try really hard to answer you


----------



## violet (Jun 29, 2006)

How many fish have ich ? I had my blue tang having some ich on him when I first put her/him in display tank, all the other fishes seemed fine. I knew I couldn't get him out. So what I did I would take half of garlic clove (fresh)and squash it and added that to my frozen food, plus I bought 2 cleaners shrimps, after a week of feeding garlic mu blue tang was ok and none of the other fishes got it. You may try that if you don't have an outbreak, it just might work for you as it worked for me.
This is how he/she looks like now


----------



## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

I am even not sure that this is an ich, but started to panic already. I got home raised Mandarin from BA. The guy that works there told me that this is from his tank and perfectly healthy. I know, that he told me the true about tank. The mandarin was in the lowest tank and since after 50 years I continue to believe in people, I did not check it. When I was dipping it at home, my basket is not clear and I did not see it white stuff.
All other fishes are fine. It does not have white dots on the fins, just on the end of the tail.
It even does not look like dots. Will do garlic.
Thanks,
Violet

the tang is a beauty. I hope one day my will reach size like this

*100% free webcam site! | Awesome chicks and it is absolutely free! | Watch free live sex cam - easy as 1-2-3*


----------



## 50seven (Feb 14, 2010)

Mandarin's very rarely get ich. Maybe it is something else? They cover themselves in a mucous layer for protection, and sometimes gets sand or dirt stuck to it. 
I did the garlic thing too -just kept my water conditions at perfect + stable, feed w/ garlic and cleaner shrimp will do the rest. Been ich free for over 2 months now...


----------



## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

50seven said:


> Mandarin's very rarely get ich. Maybe it is something else? They cover themselves in a mucous layer for protection, and sometimes gets sand or dirt stuck to it.
> I did the garlic thing too -just kept my water conditions at perfect + stable, feed w/ garlic and cleaner shrimp will do the rest. Been ich free for over 2 months now...


You made my day. Thanks

*100% free webcam site! | Awesome chicks and it is absolutely free! | Watch free live sex cam - easy as 1-2-3*


----------



## sinner (Sep 25, 2010)

myths,,

False.
_*garlic does not cure M-ICH. 
cleaner shrimp does not cure M-ICH
TEMP does not Cure M-ich *_

Truth
_*you cannot SEE M-ICH-*_

mandarins are less suceptable to out break but can still carry the parasite. 
if that mandarin was in a tank, that was on the same water curcuit as any others, or was shareing a tank with other fish, or a tank that a fish was in in the last 8 weeks you are likely importing ICH into your tank. 
OR 
worse if that mandarin IS healthy and you put him in your tank that you suspect has ICH you are indeed turning him into a carrier.

-generic wagging finger shit below- i can right it because i BEEN there exactly where you are..

when you read up on what ICH does to a fish its actualy pretty horrific. 
and for the sake of a 6-8 week period and a walmart special 40 dollar tank, to insure a healthy long life fish, 
a QT tank is a realive minor expense..

replacing 1 dead fish from BA's (silly prices there) for a easly "CURED" sickness eats up any savings from not buying a QT tank...
and to be honest once you see them gasping for air 100 times a minute, then keel over and die, makes (me anyways) feel pretty bad.. they didnt ask for it.. 

I wont harp on it. 
but by the very fact _*you*_ posted leebca's articles you have done your research, and you KNOW whats myth and fact, the _*right and humane *_thing to do even if you just suspect "ICH" _*you obviously care, or you wouldnt read all that*_

right now your just looking for someone to give you an excuse not to the good and right thing... (the good 'ol hey its gonna be fine, mine where)

I will not be that guy. 
like Russle Peters says "Be a Man!, do the right thing! Be a Man"
 
cheers man,


----------



## 50seven (Feb 14, 2010)

I'm not saying don't deal with the problem. Of course to quarantine is always the best way. Unfortunately it's not always a viable option for some people, especially when it comes to removing EVERYTHING from your tank to take out all your fish. 

It is correct that garlic, cleaner shrimp, and water quality do NOT cure ich. But just like a healthy person with a healthy lifestyle can get over the flu without taking antibiotics, these are what contribute to a healthy environment for our fish, strengthens their immune system, and that is the first line of defense in the tank. 

What I'm saying is that often a mild case in the DT can be cleared up with no medication or quarantine, so don't get all in a panic and tear your tank apart first off when you see ich. In a healthy environment it may not spread but rather die out. 

Maybe it's just my outlook on life... When I get sick with the flu I don't go to the doctor- I go to sleep, eat fruit and take my vitamins. A day or two later I'm back in action and back to work. The doctor would only give me antibiotics that I would have to take for a week, and I would still be bedridden for just as long, plus my immune system would be weakened by the drugs, and I'll take longer to heal up the next time. 

I do agree also that if it does not improve with good healthy conditions, then you would have to move them out to get them healed up properly, to keep the poor creatures from suffering. Hyposalinity is the better option, as drugs and medication will have a weakening effect on the fish.


----------



## sinner (Sep 25, 2010)

50seven said:


> Maybe it's just my outlook on life... When I get sick with the flu I don't go to the doctor- I go to sleep, eat fruit and take my vitamins. A day or two later I'm back in action and back to work. The doctor would only give me antibiotics that I would have to take for a week, and I would still be bedridden for just as long, plus my immune system would be weakened by the drugs, and I'll take longer to heal up the next time.
> 
> I do agree also that if it does not improve with good healthy conditions, then you would have to move them out to get them healed up properly, to keep the poor creatures from suffering. Hyposalinity is the better option, as drugs and medication will have a weakening effect on the fish.


i understand your line of thought . re:flu/cold

however the differnce is 
M-ICH is not viral or baterial,
it is a full on brutal parasite that will not "go away" 
comparing M-ich to the flu 
is like comparing Malaria protozoan parasites to the common cold. you can eat as healthy as you want, its not going away.

and lets be honest, as i mentioned, 40 dollars in cost for a el' cheapo QT tank,in the grand scheme of saltwater keeping is dirt cheap, less than the price of most fish..

losing and replacing one average fish costs more..

Im speaking from the heart because i'm did exactly what this person doing, and a couple fish suffered horribly for it.. i wasnt fair to those fish.

The price of that mandarin he just bought is half the price of a QT tank..

I'm really NOT trying to be "that guy" brow beating jerk, im not.. i swear..

but he asked for advice, he found one of the best sources period for it with lee's articles, yet he's being temped by myth, as was I,

bottom line QT every thing, maybe your DT does have ich after all, 
but there is no way you should add a new "seeemingly" healthy mandarin fish to your DT tank without being in Q.T. (AGAIN lesson learnt first hand, that caused all the above lessons..  )


----------



## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

"and lets be honest, as i mentioned, 40 dollars in cost for a el' cheapo QT tank,in the grand scheme of saltwater keeping is dirt cheap, less than the price of most fish.."

I have 3 tanks and quarantined all fishes, but not this one. What is the point "to throw punches after fight" It is done and now I should deal with the consequences.
I do not have many choices:

Since I do not want to kill all corals, shrimps and live rock. I should dismantle full tank and take fishes out for cure. I have corals there for at least $600 and 200Lbs of LR + 5 shrimps+ several snails.

I will do everything first trying to cure fishes without taking above steps.

And I should add that the money is not the issue - the job is the problem.

*100% free webcam site! | Awesome chicks and it is absolutely free! | Watch free live sex cam - easy as 1-2-3*


----------



## sinner (Sep 25, 2010)

sig said:


> I have 3 tanks and quarantined all fishes, but not this one. What is the point "to throw punches after fight" It is done and now I should deal with the consequences.
> I do not have many choices:.


I was serious , that really don't mean to sound like a jerk merely just having a open conversation, 
if its coming off that way, I'm sincerly sorry. its not intened,

its great to hear you quarantine all new fishes ( I didn't and learnt the hard way  i am not trying to throw punches at all, please don't think i am,)

but your still in the "fight" no body is deathly ill, therefore you do have choices.



sig said:


> Since I do not want to kill all corals, shrimps and live rock. I should dismantle full tank and take fishes out for cure. I have corals there for at least $600 and 200Lbs of LR + 5 shrimps+ several snails.
> I will do everything first trying to cure fishes without taking above steps.
> And I should add that the money is not the issue - the job is the problem.


I have over 600 in coral and inverts as well, I TOTALLY understand your dilemma about "breaking down a tank"
I decided not to think of it as breaking down, merely re-landscaping ..

I drained 50 % the water from the DT into huge rubber made containers, the quickly moved coral and inverts to containers. (just enough for no room to hide for fish)

Caught all the fish moved to QT tank, then placed coral and rockwork back in DT, 
the entire process was about 1.5 hours..

I suffered MINOR coral issues. lost a sun coral(thought 2 but one came back, ,and crushed my trumpet/candy cane coral(rock slide) , however candy cane is coming back nicely..
minor ammonia spike, that I though was much worse than it was.. the QT looks better than it ever did as i used the chance to correct things i didn't like (dead spots and flow) 
It really isn't that bad as it seems,

your coral will not die from being in a temporary container for 1-2 hours.. heck they shipped from the other side of the world 

I not arguing what you should do only you know what you have time & willingness to do, 
nothing I say can force someone hand, (or should for that matter)

all I'm saying is you did your research, 
you already know anecdotal stories about garlic and stuff are not legit.

The reason I did it was merely for my own piece of mind,
that I did my level best to insure I limited the discomfort as much as possible.

like I said I wont harp on and ON and OONNNN about it..

just hoping maybe others reading this wont be taken in by the myths and end up losing there little guys,..


----------



## sinner (Sep 25, 2010)

cool?


----------



## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

cool 

"I drained 50 % the water from the DT into huge rubber made containers, the quickly moved coral and inverts to containers. (just enough for no room to hide for fish)

*Caught all the fish moved to QT tank, *then placed coral and rockwork back in DT,
the entire process was about 1.5 hours"

To do what you explained is not a big deal, but in order to catch the fish, I should take out ALL 200 Lbs of LIVE ROCKS. I was in this story before and do not tell me that this is not necessary.

any way, I do not have yet any symptoms of ich on my fishes and white stuff on mandarin probably not ich also.
Let's wait and see

*100% free webcam site! | Awesome chicks and it is absolutely free! | Watch free live sex cam - easy as 1-2-3*


----------



## goffebeans (Jul 23, 2007)

I always wondered if it's even possible to keep a ich free tank.

Since you cannot see ich, if a fish is healthy is it possible for it to never show symptoms?

Why I ask is because if it doesn't show symptoms, you may unknowingly introduce ich to your tank, when you introduce the fish.

If you do Hypo/Copper, they can have longterm health effects on your fish, plus it's not 100% guaranteed to kill ich, so you still might introduce it to your tank.

"14. INTERESTING FIND: If no new MI is introduce into an infected aquarium, the MI already there continues to cycle through multiple generations until about 10 to 11 months when the MI has ‘worn itself out’ and becomes less infective. A tank can be free of an MI infestation if it is never exposed to new MI parasites for over 11 months."

Hopefully the above is true.


----------



## sinner (Sep 25, 2010)

goffebeans said:


> I always wondered if it's even possible to keep a ich free tank.
> 
> Since you cannot see ich, if a fish is healthy is it possible for it to never show symptoms?
> 
> ...


if you keep a marine tank fish free for 8 weeks there will be no ICH in the tank 99.99 % of the time

if you do a hypo QT of each fish for the same period of 8 weeks, then yes you will have a ICH FREE fully CURED tank.


----------



## goffebeans (Jul 23, 2007)

sinner said:


> if you keep a marine tank fish free for 8 weeks there will be no ICH in the tank 99.99 % of the time
> 
> if you do a hypo QT of each fish for the same period of 8 weeks, then yes you will have a ICH FREE fully CURED tank.


That's the thing, ich free implies 100%. Also curious as to what's the effectiveness rate of Hypo.

In terms of quarantining for the sake of preventing ich, this also implies that all corals, snails, shrimp, inverts, rocks, etc. Be quarantined for a minimum 8 weeks

I've sort of started to stop worrying about it. I do what I can to prevent it, but it's inevitable. Just let things mature and stay healthy and hopefully overtime it works itself out. Sort of like flatworms lol.


----------



## sinner (Sep 25, 2010)

goffebeans said:


> That's the thing, ich free implies 100%. Also curious as to what's the effectiveness rate of Hypo.
> 
> In terms of quarantining for the sake of preventing ich, this also implies that all corals, snails, shrimp, inverts, rocks, etc. Be quarantined for a minimum 8 weeks


i agree, 99.99 is not 100. but likley thats the "disclamer" 

but yes your completely right,
i now have that 10 gallon salty set up, that handles my coral/invert QT.


----------



## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

Not running a QT tank with freshwater fish is ok.

Not running a QT tank for saltwater fish is just stupid.

Just set one up.

One tank. One sponger filter. There we go, QT.

If you don't QT your fish properly, you WILL eventually get nailed by something (likely marine ich!). Assume all fish you purpose, whether from a store or another hobbyist, has ich.

It is a bit of work, I'll admit. But it really seperates the beginner from the conscientious, experienced hobbyist.


----------



## conix67 (Jul 27, 2008)

Agree with Chris_S. Assume all fishes have Ich. There's still a chance to get one without Ich, but the chances are pretty low.

Sinners is giving very informative and valuable info on Ich. For many new reefers, first severe outbreak of Ich can be bad enough to make them leave this hobby, so be prepared.

Sig, you can trap your fish instead of dismantling the tank, although it would take more time. However, if you could dismantle, that's a good option.


----------

