# Pregnant Pearl Gouramis!



## Mataca (Dec 2, 2013)

Hey everyone! I'm new to the forum so to give a little background, I've recently come into the hobby after my dad has built and owned a large pond in every home we've moved to so i decided to start up a 55 gallon freshwater planted community aquarium. I've had it for a bit over 3 weeks now and so far so good. In the tank I have 3 clown loaches, 1 black ghost knife, 1 Khuli loach, 3 zebra danios, 1 pair of german blue rams, 1 pair of pearl gouramis and lastly 1 male neon dwarf gourami(his female counterpart was purchased with little to no colour so i decided to keep her instead of returning her to Big Al's Mississauga in attempts to possibly help her out but unfortunately she died just after 5 days from purchase). All of these fish are juvenile except for the pearl gouramis which were a "medium pair" when i bought them.

*Question:* Over the last couple of days I've noticed that my female pearl gourami has gotten very fat. When i woke up this morning i noticed that a bubble nest had been made in the corner of the tank. I decided to move both the male and female pair into my 10 gallon tank to reduce any possible stress that they might have from the other fish being around as well as give them a little more privacy. I placed the ring from the top of a styrofoam cup in the corner of the new tank as well as moved as much of the bubble nest from the 55 gallon as i possibly could into the cup ring. Have i done everything right so far? Should i have just left them and the nest in the 55 gallon?

Lastly, I've read that i should completely turn off the filter in the 10 gallon while they are breeding. Currently the filter is running. Should I leave it on or turn it off. Thanks in advance. Let me know if there is any information needed that I have left out.

GH-180
KH-180
PH-7
Nitrite-0
Nitrate-0
Ammonia-0


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

I don't know the methods exactly for gourami breeding but most of it sounds good.

In regards to the filter, the best filter to use in a breeding tank is a sponge filter. I assume you have a hob on the 10 gallon right now. I would keep it on and get a sponge prefilter which is your best and safest short term option.

2 adult gourami would quickly make ammonia spike in a 10 gallon without a filter.

If you plan to breed them in the future, get a sponge filter and you can just keep it in a stocked tank until you need it so it is already seeded and ready to go any time


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## Mataca (Dec 2, 2013)

Yea currently i have a hub on the 10 gallon and i bought 6 sponges from the dollar store but im kind of hesitant to do a "DIY" prefilter with a sponge as it doesn't say on the packaging safe for aquarium, or actually any text on the packaging at all except "Super Absorbent". I guess ill pick up a Fluval pre filter sponge from pet smart tomorrow instead of risking anything. Thanks again for the quick response and if anyone else has any tips or criticisms please feel free to add them!


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## mistersprinkles (Nov 4, 2013)

Put the fish back in the 55 gallon. They will gladly spawn in a community tank. You can carefully remove the fry and bubble nest with a tupperware container after they hatch and raise them in the 10 gallon.

Make sure you bring established filter media over to the 10 gallon or the fry will die of ammonia poisoning.

BTW you say you've only been running for 3 weeks and yet you are fully stocked. Did you remember to respect the nitrogen cycle before adding fish?


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## Mataca (Dec 2, 2013)

Yup i respected the nitrogen cycle. When i first purchased the tank i put in the quick start bacteria and ran it for a little over a week testing the waters every 2 days before i began to add plants and fish. I added about 2 fish ever 3 days after that until my last purchase 2 days ago which was the 3 juvenile clown loaches, khuli loach, black ghost knife, and 1 pair of german blue rams. All of my fish are maybe an inch in length if that expect for my pair of pearl gourami's which are both about 3 inchs in length and my black ghost knife which is maybe 3.5 inches. Everyone is getting along great in the 55 gallon. No bullying or fin nipping is going on either.

In regards to the 10 gallon, it has been running for 1 week with water and media from the 55 gallon. I was using it as a sick tank for the essentially dead female neon dwarf gourami that i purchased as a pair. Instead of returning her i figured i would try and keep her and her mate separate from the rest of the fish to reduce stress(which i assumed why she was so white when i bought her) to try and get her healthy. She only lived 5 days and died the night the warranty ended (go figure) so i moved the male back to the 55 gallon and moved the breeding pair of pearl gouramis to the 10 gallon. I'll have to go tomorrow to buy him a new mate.

I think I am just going to leave them in the 10 gallon for now instead of constantly moving them. Hopefully spawning is successful. If not, next time they begin to spawn ill just leave them in the 55 as suggested and carefully transfer the fry and bubble nest.


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## BillD (Jun 5, 2006)

Typically with Gouramis, you want a tank with still water, and some vegetation. usually you have to remove the female after spawning or risk having the male kill her. He will look after the eggs and fry. The water level is usually dropped to around 6", to make care of the eggs and fry easier. When the fry hatch they are extremely small and when the yolk sack is gone they require extremely small food to start.


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## mistersprinkles (Nov 4, 2013)

Mataca said:


> Yup i respected the nitrogen cycle. When i first purchased the tank i put in the quick start bacteria and ran it for a little over a week testing the waters every 2 days before i began to add plants and fish.


So you added quick start bacteria and no ammonia source, waited a while then added fish. You did _not_ respect the nitrogen cycle and did not cycle your tank prior to adding fish.


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## Mataca (Dec 2, 2013)

Sorry let me rephrase what I said I misspoke a bit. 2 days after adding started bacteria I added some zebra danio's. 5 days later i began to add in plants and slowly more fish(about 2 at a time until a couple days ago where i added 6). I've been testing my water parameters every 2 days. Here are my readings from the 4th-present as I didn't buy a testing kit for the first couple of days prior. I have yet to have any ammonia spikes as well, doing 10-25% water changes every 3 days or so.

Date-------GH----KH----PH---Nitrite---Nitrate
12/4/13----180---120----7.5---0-------0
12/6/13----120---120----7.5---20------0
12/8/13----180---180----7.5---0-------20
12/10/13---180---180----7-----0-------0
12/12/13---120---120----7-----0-------0
12/14/13---180---180----7-----0-------0
12/16/13---180---180----7-----0-------0
12/18/13---180---180----7-----0-------0


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## mistersprinkles (Nov 4, 2013)

Mataca said:


> Sorry let me rephrase what I said I misspoke a bit. 2 days after adding started bacteria I added some zebra danio's. 5 days later i began to add in plants and slowly more fish(about 2 at a time until a couple days ago where i added 6). I've been testing my water parameters every 2 days. Here are my readings from the 4th-present as I didn't buy a testing kit for the first couple of days prior. I have yet to have any ammonia spikes as well, doing 10-25% water changes every 3 days or so.
> 
> Date-------GH----KH----PH---Nitrite---Nitrate
> 12/4/13----180---120---7.5---0-------0
> ...


How old is your test kit? Are you shaking the bottles before adding the test solution to the test tubes? You aren't using strips are you?

Also, your wild pH swings seriously concern me. Going from 7.5 to 7.4 is ok. But 7.5 to 6.5 to 7? What the hell is going on? I'm very concerned by these readings. Can you describe in detail absolutely everything thats in your tank, what water source you use, what you treat the water with, etc? Also pics would be helpful.


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## Mataca (Dec 2, 2013)

*Update* My gouramis have made a new nest in the 10 gallon shortly after i put the in. They have been spawning since 1am until now. The female is considerably thinner, but still has a slight bulge to her but she looks like she's beginning to get rather tired as she is just swimming stationary, waiting for the male to court her over to the nest. He is also being a little more aggressive with her after the embrace. How much thinner does her stomach have to get before i can add her back to the 55 gallon. I don't want the male to stress her out so much that he kills her. Thanks in advance!

Also here is a picture of him embracing her under the nest taken around 4:30 am if anyone is interested!


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## Mataca (Dec 2, 2013)

mistersprinkles said:


> How old is your test kit? Are you shaking the bottles before adding the test solution to the test tubes? You aren't using strips are you?
> 
> Also, your wild pH swings seriously concern me. Going from 7.5 to 7.4 is ok. But 7.5 to 6.5 to 7? What the hell is going on? I'm very concerned by these readings. Can you describe in detail absolutely everything thats in your tank, what water source you use, what you treat the water with, etc? Also pics would be helpful.


Haha, woops i must have fat fingured a "6" instead of "7" when i was rearranging the chart on here(when i made the chart it didn't read the spaces properly so i had to go back and add hyphens everywhere to get numbers in the proper columns. Ill just added that for you. In regards to the test kit, yes im using the API STRIP master test kit( i know i should but the liquid test kit, ill purchase that tonight when i go to buy my prefilter sponge. In regards to pictures I'm slightly pressed for time to take new ones at the moment but when I get home I can take some new ones. Here are a couple taken from a bit over a week ago for now.


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

I don't see any record of ammonia tests and the ph changes are pretty extreme

a liquid test kit is best, strips are not reliable. With my test kit, it takes up to 5 min to see results to read it properly. I use the API liquid test kits. A good test kit costs a little bit but once you have it, it will last a long time. Also once you are more experienced and they tanks are aged, you don't have to test as often.

Sounds like they might be done spawning and the they should be removed, at least the female removed if the male is being aggressive.


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## mistersprinkles (Nov 4, 2013)

You still haven't told us if you moved a bunch of used filter media over from the big tank to the small tank to support the gouramis. If there is an ammonia spike it will injure them.


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## Mataca (Dec 2, 2013)

mistersprinkles said:


> You still haven't told us if you moved a bunch of used filter media over from the big tank to the small tank to support the gouramis. If there is an ammonia spike it will injure them.





Mataca said:


> In regards to the 10 gallon, it has been running for 1 week with water and media from the 55 gallon.


I spoke about the 10 gallon a little earlier in the thread. It was started with water from the 55, as well as media from the filter. I also brought plants over from the 55 when i started the 10 gallon and just yesterday put in a couple more plants from the 55 to give the female a little bit of cover from the male.

*Update:*I have removed the female from the 10 gallon and placed her back in the 55 gallon as she has become a lot thinner than she was and the male is being pretty aggressive towards her.

*Question:*Would I be able to turn off the filter in the 10 gallon with the male still in it and hopefully eggs in the nest. I've read that I should do this(to prevent any eggs or fry from being sucked up if they happen to become free swimming when im still asleep) as well as remove the male in a day or so when the fry are free swimming.


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## mistersprinkles (Nov 4, 2013)

Mataca said:


> I spoke about the 10 gallon a little earlier in the thread. It was started with water from the 55, as well as media from the filter. I also brought plants over from the 55 when i started the 10 gallon and just yesterday put in a couple more plants from the 55 to give the female a little bit of cover from the male.
> 
> *Update:*I have removed the female from the 10 gallon and placed her back in the 55 gallon as she has become a lot thinner than she was and the male is being pretty aggressive towards her.
> 
> *Question:*Would I be able to turn off the filter in the 10 gallon with the male still in it and hopefully eggs in the nest. I've read that I should do this(to prevent any eggs or fry from being sucked up if they happen to become free swimming when im still asleep) as well as remove the male in a day or so when the fry are free swimming.


No filter= no fish.

You can't turn the filter off. Put a dense sponge over the filter's intake. Use something like a hydrosponge. It'll reduce your flow tremendously but no fry are getting sucked through it. You can use aquaclear foam if you want but the gaps in it might be wide enough to suck fry into the filter.


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

you have to have a filter running or the male will create too much ammonia and kill everything. Just get a sponge over the intake


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## BillD (Jun 5, 2006)

In the far east, gouramis are bred in pails with no filtration. They place a water lettuce or hyacinth in the pail and that is the extent of filtration. I would never put a power filter on a gourami breeding tank, because even with a foam over the filter there is too much flow. As well the newly hatched gouramis are so small that they are likely to be sucked into the foam.


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

Do they do water changes in those buckets ? I wonder how big the buckets are too ? 

Seems some fish will reproduce when they feel like it even when conditions are not ideal, but if you don't have the right foods to feed those fry when they use up the yolk sacs, they'll die.

You need live food for most kinds of small fry to do their best, newly hatched brine shrimp are the old basic standard if the fry are big enough to eat them.. I'm not sure, the smallest fry I've had to deal with so far are Endler fry, which are a lot larger than what you have. You can use hard cooked egg yolk mashed into paste and fed in tiny amounts as well for first foods. Take care not to overfeed it, as it can really foul the water. Most fry need to be fed several times a day. 

Once the fry are large enough, microworms are good food. Easy to culture and because they live for several days in water, you can get away with fewer feedings, assuming the fry will pick the worms off the bottom. This is how I've fed my Endler fry in a breeder box. The bare bottom allows them easy access to worms once they sink to the bottom of the box.


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