# Which Fish is Destroying my Plants?



## jdeath (Aug 14, 2010)

Hi All,

Hope someone can help me solve a mystery... I have a 20G planted tank stocked with Kuhli Loaches, Clown Loaches, 2 Mollys, 2 Otto Cats and a bristle nosed albino pleco.

I initially had a Java fern, Amazon sword, cryptocoryne and H. difformis for plants. I use Ecocomplete as my substrate...

I began to notice that my swords were yellowing and the leaves were developing holes in them, this was noted on the crypto as well. The hygro began to have blackened dead patches of leaves as well.

I removed the swords and hygro as they were going south fast and I couldn't seem to recover them.

I have replaced the swords with both Dwarf and Giant hair grass along with a Rosaefolia plant (smallish flat leaves).

I suspect that the Otto cats are to blame for this situation as the Rosaefolia and hairgrass are now starting to have the same symptoms as the Amazon Swords did...

I have added more substrate to allow for deeper root development and began dosing weekly with Flourish. I am still regularly trimming dead, lacerated leaves from my plants!!

I was hoping that the hair grass would be spared but I have noted it too is browning out and breaking off...

Could this be a water problem? Or is it more likely stock related...?

Any help would be appreciated as I'm tearing my hair out in frustration over this! I would also appreciate any suggestions for hardy plants... So far the Java fer is the only plant that doesn't appear to be affected by this...

Thanks,

Joel


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## penpal (Feb 20, 2009)

It could be the clown loaches but i doubt it, I've kept the others and haven't see them destroying plants. But from reading your post, it could be that you don't have enough light or not dosing enough nutrients. Your description of the way your plants are being torn up just leads me to believe their dying on their own and not being destroyed by the fishes.


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## characinfan (Dec 24, 2008)

I second PenPal's remarks. If the fish were destroying the plants, you'd see them physically ripped out of the substrate, and/or with bite marks, and/or the leaves would be gone (eaten). Your description sounds more like sad plants without enough light.


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## qwerty (Dec 15, 2009)

Sounds more like nutrience deficiencies.

The pinholes are especially a good indication of potassium deficiency. The chlorosis and dying of the leaves could be a lot of different things, but is most likely a combination of deficiencies.

Sword plants are heavy root feeders remember.

Your java fern is probably unaffected because those plants are tough as nails and pretty hard to kill.

More info on your setup (lighting, etc) will likely get you some better advice.


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## igor.kanshyn (Jan 14, 2010)

What light is there? Do you use fertilization?

It might be not a fish-related problem.


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## jdeath (Aug 14, 2010)

Hello All,

Thank you for the replies, I'm glad the consensus seems to be that the fish aren't the problem... I rather like them and would like to keep them all.

I am currently dosing the tank approximately once a week with Flourish, usually after a 20-25% water change.

I have a coralife ballast with a T5-BP colormax fluorescent bulb and a T5-MP white fluorescent bulb. I believe that the output is ~20-25 watts total...

Thanks,

Joel


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## igor.kanshyn (Jan 14, 2010)

Try to calculate how many "watts per gallon" you have.
You can have low/medium/high light.

All plants have mentions about light they need in their descriptions on web-sites.


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

igor.kanshyn said:


> Try to calculate how many "watts per gallon" you have.
> You can have low/medium/high light.
> 
> All plants have mentions about light they need in their descriptions on web-sites.


Unfortunately, with the advent of T5NO and T5HO bulbs (and even T8 bulbs), the WPG guideline is not appropriate anymore for determining whether your aquarium is low, medium or high light.


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## igor.kanshyn (Jan 14, 2010)

Darkblade48 said:


> Unfortunately, with the advent of T5NO and T5HO bulbs (and even T8 bulbs), the WPG guideline is not appropriate anymore for determining whether your aquarium is low, medium or high light.


It's better than nothing.
And there are some charts that recalculate T8, T5 and T5 HO into T12 efficiency


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## BettaBeats (Jan 14, 2010)

nutrient deficiency. Especially with the brown leaves. I too am getting that myself,
although, it is happening on anubias leaves that my ottos love to graze on. 
But I'm nearly positive its nutrient deficiency.

google a deficiency list. the one i used is inactive.


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## qwerty (Dec 15, 2009)

In my personal opinion, if this was my tank I would probably double the current lighting.

You say you're dosing "flourish". I'm not entirely sure if you're referring to "flourish excel" or the "flourish" comprehensive fertilizer.

If you're using just the excel, then that's probably your problem, since excel is really only a carbon source.

However if you're using the other comprehensive fertilizer then I would look at your substrate, and possible consider using root tabs, although personally I don't think your plants should be dying like this just cause they need better substrate and root tabs. After all, people have no problem with plants in gravel and play sand.

I mean your plants aren't exactly fussy plants, and it doesn't take a whole ton of ferts to get entry-level plants to survive and grow in low lit tanks.

Your lighting does sound too low to me though, and nutrients are useless to plants without enough light.


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## jdeath (Aug 14, 2010)

qwerty said:


> In my personal opinion, if this was my tank I would probably double the current lighting.
> 
> You say you're dosing "flourish". I'm not entirely sure if you're referring to "flourish excel" or the "flourish" comprehensive fertilizer.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the insight, I am using the Flourish comprehensive fertilizer with no real change in the plants condition.

It is becoming clearer that the problem is the lack of light... Which leads me to ask what the best solution is to addmore light.

Do I add another light set the same as what I have now, or is there a higher wattage set that I could consider?

At the moment I am limited to solutions with fluorescent bulbs as I don't have the space to accomodate a full incandescent style system.

Thanks,

Joel


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## penpal (Feb 20, 2009)

Most light fixtures are fluorescent anyways, incandescent bulbs are not used for planted aquariums. Coralife T5HO fixtures are a cheap solution to your light problems, for what you want to grow it might be enough.

Here is a little guide on Lighting
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/lighting/105774-par-vs-distance-t5-t12-pc.html


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## BettaBeats (Jan 14, 2010)

T5HO is the way to go, affordable and lamps(tubes) are easy to get. Is it a 20tall or a 20long tank? If it's tall you need to consider that you will want a bit more wattage. Although, 2x24w lamps will give you OK lighting. 

T5HO means that the bulb has twice as much wattage and a T5NO. so 24w instead of 12w. 

48W combined on a 20Long would be a medium-high light and it would be medium-low for a 20tall. But you should be able to grow stem plants and low-level plants effectively. 

Remember that new light fixtures take a few weeks to 'warm up' the tubes and break them into their prime spectrums.


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## jdeath (Aug 14, 2010)

BettaBeats said:


> T5HO is the way to go, affordable and lamps(tubes) are easy to get. Is it a 20tall or a 20long tank? If it's tall you need to consider that you will want a bit more wattage. Although, 2x24w lamps will give you OK lighting.
> 
> T5HO means that the bulb has twice as much wattage and a T5NO. so 24w instead of 12w.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the reply BettaBeats, my tank is a 20G tall variety so I should look for a 2-4 bulb ballast to get acceptable lighting for my current plants? Would that configuration support a heavier planting in the future?

Are these bulbs spread spectrum? Do they need to be...?

Sorry for all the questions, but I do appreciate the answers!

Joel


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## jdeath (Aug 14, 2010)

jdeath said:


> Thanks for the reply BettaBeats, my tank is a 20G tall variety so I should look for a 2-4 bulb ballast to get acceptable lighting for my current plants? Would that configuration support a heavier planting in the future?
> 
> Are these bulbs spread spectrum? Do they need to be...?
> 
> ...


A quick update... I have purchased an Aquatic Life 24" T5HO ballast and bulbs for my tank. Set it up today with a couple of new plants in with the old ones as a control group... Hopefully I will start to see some rehabilitation of the old and a flourishing of the new!

Thanks for everyone's help and suggestions!


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