# Recommendations for an external pump



## fury165 (Aug 21, 2010)

I'm thinking of redoing my salt water mixing setup to a proper water change station and looking for suggestions for an external pump to power the system. Currently my setup consists of a ~15 gallon container that I have a Hydor wave maker to take care of the mixing duties. What I want to do is put two 20 gallon containers one for RODI and the other for salt water with an external pump for mixing and distribution.. Like this



The pump will only see light duty running 12 hours to mix new salt water and 40 minutes a day to keep salt water stirred up. It would also be used to pump out RODI water to a bucket if needed.

Now the most important thing is noise - the pump has to be very quiet. I currently have Tunze silence pumps as my return pumps and they are my first choice but I am interested in using an external pump. So what options do I have for quiet reliable pumps that would fit the bill here? I'd like to keep it ~$200.00 give or take.


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## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

A panworld 40PX (480gph) or 50PX (590gph) will fit the bill. They aren't dead silent as there will be a slight whir from the cooling fans in the back of the motor and a little in vibrational sound contribution. GoReef has them for $140/180 respectively. Workhorses and will most likely outlast many other external pumps out there. I like them for the magnetic coupling to drive the impeller vs direct drive as you don't have to keep extra seals on hand. The trade off is the sound/GPH

HTH


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## fury165 (Aug 21, 2010)

Thanks WTAC for the recommendations, they look like they fit the bill. The vibration noise can be controlled by a thick pump dampening pad like what BRS sells? Also do you see any issues with the pump sitting inactive for long periods of time?


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## Taipan (Feb 12, 2012)

Inactivity for long period of times shouldn't be a problem. They really are workhorses. Dampeners will help....but not necessarily for the fan noise. From recollection; the fan noise isn't extreme.


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## fury165 (Aug 21, 2010)

Taipan said:


> Inactivity for long period of times shouldn't be a problem. They really are workhorses. Dampeners will help....but not necessarily for the fan noise. From recollection; the fan noise isn't extreme.


Thnks for the feedback Red


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## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

+1 to Red

I can't quite say if the noise is nil to some from a 40PX that's on a CaRx that sits on a concrete slab at a client's place. With the slight back ground noise in the house mechanical room, I had to put my hand on it/blast a bit of CO2 to make sure it was working. Depends on how one is sensitive to sound.

To help dampen the vibration, you can use 1"ID hose to couple 3/4" PVC pipe as well as a pad.


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## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

For fan noise:



Not my creation but I think from RC. I had it in my comp photo library frm quite a few years ago. I haven't tried it myself but in theory it's brilliant!


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

Not sure about model 40, but I had 3 different models (100 PS - 250PS) and never used another external pumps. 
When people say these are quiet, I start to wonder what is the noisy means.
they are very noisy (and I am not sensitive), but you will never have problem with these pumps

Panworld pumps are build to push water up. probably you can use type of the pump which people use for the closed circle. probably they less noisy

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## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

Yeah...once you get into the +1000gph range the noise level goes up.


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## fury165 (Aug 21, 2010)

Hm... Good to know Sig and good point about the closed loop pumps. The pump would only have to pump water from the RODI container to the salt water one and then only mix the salt water in what would essentially be a closed loop. Delivery of the water to the display tank would be handled by the Litermeter III system i have doing continuous water changes. 
What about something like Waveline DC 6000 gen 2 pumps? Looks interesting but I recall some folks posting about issues on the Gen 1 pumps.


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

fury165 said:


> Hm... Good to know Sig and good point about the closed loop pumps. The pump would only have to pump water from the RODI container to the salt water one and then only mix the salt water in what would essentially be a closed loop. Delivery of the water to the display tank would be handled by the Litermeter III system i have doing continuous water changes.
> What about something like Waveline DC 6000 gen 2 pumps? Looks interesting but I recall some folks posting about issues on the Gen 1 pumps.


I have no clue about these, probably try to think if you can user internal pump with different lines with valves - in case you need really quiet pump

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## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

For that intended purpose and duty cycle, the PanWorld is best suited for the job in that price point.

Only the Abyzz and BK RD Speedy DC pumps are properly UL/CE rated for aquarium/wet conditions ATM. It's an "assembly/parts original intended use" loophole that is slowly being closed. ReefOctopus new Diablo DC pumps soon will be available and again, properly rated for our intended use.


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

wtac said:


> For that intended purpose and duty cycle, the PanWorld is best suited for the job in that price point.
> 
> Only the Abyzz and BK RD Speedy DC pumps are properly UL/CE rated for aquarium/wet conditions ATM. It's an "assembly/parts original intended use" loophole that is slowly being closed. ReefOctopus new Diablo DC pumps soon will be available and again, properly rated for our intended use.


I will never argue with Wilson. he was may teacher who took me trough the first setup. His knowledge is huge and I suggest follow his advices.

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## fury165 (Aug 21, 2010)

sig said:


> I will never argue with Wilson. he was may teacher who took me trough the first setup. His knowledge is huge and I suggest follow his advices.


No arguments from me


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## fury165 (Aug 21, 2010)

BTW have you seen this beast from Vertex? http://www.advancedreefaquatics.ca/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=658


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## fury165 (Aug 21, 2010)

Ended up getting a used blue line 30hd which is the panworld 50x. Thanks guys for your inputs. I will throw up some pics once I've completed it.


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## WiseGuyPhil (Jun 15, 2011)

Love the project!! Tagging a long. As I am building a new fish wall I would like to see how you make out and I will probably do the same.


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## fury165 (Aug 21, 2010)

Sure thing Phil...


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## fury165 (Aug 21, 2010)

Mini update: my containers are in and just a matter of picking them up. Space is very tight so I built a stand to elevate the containers and put the pump under them. I did the work myself and very pleased since this is outside of my comfort zone.










Next step: plumbing


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## fury165 (Aug 21, 2010)

The water mixing station is wet and in the process of leak testing. Wilson was spot on with the pump recommendation  - it is audible but not bad at all, sort of like dishwasher level. I'll let it run for a day or so then clean it all out and 
Put it into the final spot. My wife is happy so far with the out come and will be happy to get the other containers out of the place.


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## Taipan (Feb 12, 2012)

That is.....so cool. Awesome.


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## fury165 (Aug 21, 2010)

Taipan said:


> That is.....so cool. Awesome.


Thanks Red


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## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

Nice work


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

I like it, despite I have no clue how it works. can we get explanations please?

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## fury165 (Aug 21, 2010)

wtac said:


> Nice work


Thanks Wilson 



sig said:


> I like it, despite I have no clue how it works. can we get explanations please?


Lol, I'll do my best... Basically the system consists of two containers hold RODI and ASW, and a pump to

Pump RODI water into the salt water mixing container
Mix the salt water
Pump out fresh salt or RODI water via the hose if I need bucket of water.

RODI is made and held in the right container and a float valve shuts off the RO unit when it reaches 19 gallons. When I am ready to make fresh batch of salt water, I close the feed saltwater feed valve, open the RODI feed valve (bottom ball valves with red handles) and turn on the pump. Once the left tank is full, I close off the RODI feed valve and open the ASW valve so that the water is now flowing in a closed loop in the SW container. I add salt to the water and allow it to mix for approx. 4 hours or until clear.

The pump is controlled by a dedicated ReefKeeper Lite and turned on for 10 minutes twice a day just to keep the salt from localizing (if any). 
Daily Automatic water changes of 2 gallons are done by my Litermeter III pumps through 1/4" RODI tubing running to the sump.

I am also in the process of redoing the ATO being handled by a Osmolator in a in sump container to being done by the Litermeter from the new RODI container. This will allow me to reclaim the space under the sump and have more ATO water on demand.

Lastly the hose allows me to do manual water changes until I automate water changes in the frag tank down the road.

Hope that makes sense


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

WOW. I am going to think about it now. basically, you do 2G water daily and no big changes weekly?
thanks for taking time to explain

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## fury165 (Aug 21, 2010)

Yep no big weekly water changes. The two gallons is exchanged in very small changes (160-170 times day). This way the parameters are stable and no big swings or shock to the system.


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

I seen somewhere on RC that one guy (I think it was Randy Holmes-Farley ) changes water 24/7 using dripping method

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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

fury165 said:


> Yep no big weekly water changes. The two gallons is exchanged in very small changes (160-170 times day). This way the parameters are stable and no big swings or shock to the system.


and here is the question. How you take evaporation in consideration during WC

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## fury165 (Aug 21, 2010)

Evaporation is still handled by the ATO, the automatic water changes are really small so the ATO sensors should not register the fluctuations caused by the AWC. Mine adds the water first then minutes later removes the same amount. The pumps in the Litermeter are calibrated (by the user) to ensure accuracy. 

If you plan on going a different way, you'd most likely need a controller to automate the WC and could turn off the ATO during the WC cycles(s).


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## fury165 (Aug 21, 2010)

sig said:


> I seen somewhere on RC that one guy (I think it was Randy Holmes-Farley ) changes water 24/7 using dripping method


I remember something about Randy doing continuous AWC using some other pumps. d2mini was the person who's setup gave me the idea to do Continuous AWC with the Litermeter. Look up the thread for his old tank.. He is using GHL now since he wanted to do everything from one system.

Here is a fantastic writeup on using the Litermeter for CAWC http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2113252

Only thing that sucks is that the system is expensive and nobody carries them locally anymore - seems Spectrapure wanted to retail them directly.


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