# Stocking a community tank, sizes, etc



## Aquamom (Mar 11, 2013)

I would like to buy a fish tank to set up a community tank. I would love to have a pair of angels. Would a 38 gallon be big enough for this? I saw minimum tank size for an angel is 30 gallons, does this mean 30 gallons per angel? With nothing else? Does anyone have some good stocking ideas for me? I'd like a variety of sizes and behaviours, and would love lots of live plants. If anyone has aquarium recommendations too I'd love to hear about them, I will likely be purchasing from Big Al's as it is the closest fish store to me. Thanks!


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## xriddler (Feb 16, 2012)

i would recommend not buying the aquarium sets from big als since theres a lot of junk that comes with it you dont need. you can always get just the tanks from them too. 

eheim canister filters work great but if you dont have the space then i'd go with HOB filters like Fluval c series or aquaclear. 

for aquarium sizes try to get the deeper tanks and not extra tall ones. taller tanks means less light penetration depending on the fixture you get.


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

+1, avoid tall tanks for plants, I also recommend a deeper tank, I like 18 inch tanks. you can get a nice 50 gallon that has a 36 x 18 footprint. The advantage of a deeper tank is you get the illusion of higher density of viewable fish. 

There is an optical illusion with tanks that make them look less deep than they are, a 12 inch deep tank looks like about 8 inches, and an 18 inch tank looks like about 12 inches.

A canister filter is best but if you want to go with a HOB, I recommend aquaclear as you can pick and choose what media and you can make it last forever if you just use the sponge and bio media parts.

I recommend two bulbs in a light fixture if you want to do high light plants, probably best to buy t5ho.

It is best to figure out what fish you would like to have before deciding on a tank size. If you can give us a list of what you would like, we can then advise the right tank size and let you know of any compatibility issues with the fish


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## SmokeSR (Jan 28, 2009)

xriddler said:


> for aquarium sizes try to get the deeper tanks and not extra tall ones. taller tanks means less light penetration depending on the fixture you get.


Angels prefer tall tanks. Less light penetration is only a factor if you plan to have live (non-floating) plants. Most people do prefer regular or long tanks, opposed to tall tanks, but if you're set on angels, I'd recommend a tall tank.

The minimum tank size depends on how much swimming room they have vs how heavily decorated the tank is. If you're okay with a larger tank, the general rule is larger is better (more stable water, more future growth potential, etc).

Edit: noticed the part about wanting lots of live plants. In that case, a tall tank is going to be hard to light, even for low light plants.


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

I agree with xriddler, don't go with the kits, they're junk.

If you're considering a 38-gallon, which should be 36" long, why not consider a 40-gallon breeder?

http://alysta.com/books/fishtank.htm

The 40-breeder has a wider depth than the 38-gallon, which is invaluable if you want a planted tank. The price should not be much different from the 38-gallon either.

For the filter, a simple HOB filter would be enough. I personally like the Aqueon filters: cheap, effective and quiet.

Since you want a planted tank, light is the most important equipment. This light is probably the most cost-effective light I've found:
http://www.aquainspiration.com/nproductdetail.asp?PIN=LS&PNAME=OD&PSIZE=36TWO&PTYPE=Lights

For substrate, the easiest option is Fluorite. However, I've always preferred sand as a substrate. It's a bit more work, but IMO more rewarding.

Finally, for plants, I think the ideal plant for the tank you envision is vallisneria. These tall plants will quickly multiply and fill up your aquarium, turning it into a lush green jungle with practically no work on your part.


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## colio (Dec 8, 2012)

While I don't have any personal experience with angels, I have read that they generally need 16 to 18 inches of vertical swimming space for health. Given you'll have a couple inches of substrate, and probably won't have your tank filled to the rim, I would think it would be advisable to have a tank of at least 20 inches in depth. The angels might appreciate a couple extra inches of depth if you can manage. 

If you make a planted tank, depth will reduce light. but how much of an issue this is depends on your plants. If you get decent lighting (2 watts per gallon, or 3), but avoid high light demanding plants (there are lots of great low light plants out there), you should be fine. hygrophilia is good, anubia, java fern, many mosses, etc. 

Making a new tank is the funnest part of the hobby! Good luck!


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## Aquamom (Mar 11, 2013)

Wow, I came to the right place, thanks for all the excellent tips! I would not have even thought about depth of tank and how it may effect light conditions. I have a lot to learn. I am not set on angels, I just think they are pretty, I like the way they move, and they are readily available to me. If anyone can suggest another "centrepiece" fish I am all ears. I think gouramis are nice too, but read they can be aggressive?

As far as substrate goes, I didn't really know there was anything beyond "aquarium gravel". Is the gravel the same thing as fluorite? Where do you get sand? Why is sand more work? I have a toddler and am not looking for too much added work... 

I will be purchasing a stand for the aquarium, so have some extra room below for the canister filter. What are the benefits though? I'd like something quiet. and as low-maintenance as possible (and don't want to spend loads of extra cash).

Would buying a kit not be cheaper than all the parts separately? 

I attached a pic to the tank I am considering, as well as a pic of the tank that made me want a heavily planted tank (love the jungle look and the angel!)


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## xriddler (Feb 16, 2012)

Kits you buy all come with HOB filters and if you go with canister filters they are quieter and they do have more room for filtration imho. Canister filters need to be cleaned less too as i find HOB clogs up quite fast unless you run the aquaclear HOB growing plants out of it then i dont think you ever need to clean that. 

There are many types of substrates depending on what you are going to have. we have pool filter sand, actual gravel, painted gravel, flourite, eco complete, ada soil, netlea soil and MIRACLE GRO ORGANIC POTTING SOIL 

In that kit the lights are no go for plants, for heater i would still go with aqueon pro or jager if you like no heater look hydor inline smexy heater. you should call big als and find out how much for the tank only is before making your decision


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

You need to decide what type of fish you want such as

community, fish like small tetras, platy, molly, swordtails, guppy, small danios

semi aggressive, fish like gourami, some sharks, the odd tetras and danios, different barbs. Also there are lots of peaceful fish that can be with semi aggressive fish because they have some type of defense, such as raphael catfish, pictus catfish because they have spines

Cichlids, south american or african, south american are typically larger fish and the african are more colourful. Plants don't go well with either of these usually.

Goldfish, the basic comets, or fancy ones like a black moor

Shrimps, many people enjoy shrimp keeping

Also you need to be sure that the size range isn't too much, even the most peaceful fish will eat other fish if they fit in their mouth. Many fish when bought are very small and grow to be very large. For example, an oscar in the store is about 2 inches long, but they can grow to be up to 18 inches.

I recommend visiting a store or two and making a list of the fish you like and we could help you organize them into what works with what.

How much time, work and money do you plan to put into it? Canister filters cost more to start out but they are cheaper and less often need maintenance. How often would you be up to doing water changes? African cichlids usually require more frequent and larger water changes.

How much space do you have available? Bigger is better usually, if you think you want a 3 foot tank but you have plenty of room for a 4 foot tank, I recommend you go bigger most of the time. Sometimes a larger tank just might not look right, imagine a 180 gallon which is 74 x 24 x 24 with just small community fish, this would be ok if you were willing to buy large schools but the cost would be quite high, imagine buying 5 dozen neon tetras for starters.

Basically the more info you can give us, the more we can help.


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## Aquamom (Mar 11, 2013)

pyrrolin said:


> I recommend visiting a store or two and making a list of the fish you like and we could help you organize them into what works with what.


Well this I have done! I have "narrowed it down" (hah) to the following list:

Boesmani rainbow
Angels
Dwarf gourami
Bettas
Guppies
Neon tetras
Paradis fish
Clown loach (too big?)
White skirt tetra
Dwarf yellow puffer
Balloon flowerhorns
Electric blue jack dempsey
Sunset platys
Black skirt tetras
Glowlight green spotted tetras
Rope fish
Cobalt blue pearlscale angel
Neon orange crayfish
Black zebra angels
Shrimp
Sunshine peacock
Electric blue hap. Ahli

Now there were other fish that looked like fun to me but I kept to the green tagged ones mostly, since I thought aggressive fish had to be kept separate? Or can you have an "aggressive community"

The only definite's I have so far are that I want live plants, and I don't want too much maintenance. I'm happy spending $500 on the setup (not including all the fish, I figured I would add those slowly to absorb the cost). My space is 48" wide but I think a 36" tank would be big enough for me.

I had no idea you could use dirt as substrate. I would have thought it would make the water, well, dirty?

Oh, the other thing is that I go away for two weeks at a time, so would need fish that could survive this long without me (with a travel feeder etc).

Thanks again!


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

Well, substrate choices are huge. Right now in my main tank I have some potting soil on the very bottom, then I have some sand that is actually sand blasting sand. Most of my other tanks are play sand.

by your list, I think you will want a 48 inch tank.

The rainbows will like a 48 inch im sure, same with clown loach.

The only betta you can safely put with other fish is females, they aren't as nice looking as the males.

If the electric blue jack dempsey is similar to normal jack dempsey, you won't want it in the tank with these other fish as it will end up eating them.

Not sure about the puffer, all the ones I have seen have been cute little things that look so peaceful but they are actually some of the meanest fish you can get.

Ropefish get quite long and I'd say min 36 inch tank but probably 48.

the sunshine peacock is a south american cichlid right? If so, probably not good with most on the list.

Fish like neon tetras may not be safe with some of the larger fish.

Overall, from the list I'd say you are best off with a community peaceful tank,

the tetras, platy, guppy, female betta, rainbows dwarf gourami, shrimp are community peaceful fish for the most part. There are a few fish on the list that I don't really know.

Dwarf gourami look nice, good size for community tanks but they tend to die all the time. I have given up on them myself.

Angels might be a bit of a problem with the smaller fish, maybe someone else with more experience with them can confirm.

I recently priced a 90 gallon at big al's and it was $190

rena xp3 canister filter is $149 at mail order pet supplies, I use and like this filter.

I think you can find a dual t5ho light system for $150 to 200

A good 300 watt heater is about $40 or so

Substrates range in price from about $15 for a 90 up to 100's if you wanted something like black flourite sand or something like that.

you could go not quite as high and get a 75, or you can go deeper and get a 125.

My dream tank is a 180 gallon but those are about $500 and up just for the tank


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## colio (Dec 8, 2012)

I would really recommend checking kijiji, and much more so the marketplace (hardware and dry good) here, and consider a used setup. You can get great deals. I got a 35 gallon with an aquaclear 70 filer and a stand, and rocks, for $70. new, that would have cost me probably $400. 

For substrate, flourite is a type of gravel that has nutrients, and is good for plants which needs to feed off the gravel. Regular gravel is gravel, jsut be sure to get a small size. Sand is cheaper, and comes in a variety of options (filter sand is supposed to be best, playsand is cheapest).

I used sand, with some natural gravel on top to give my tank a naturalistic look. I think it is very nice, and my plants do well. The reason sand is more work is because you need to rinse it really really well. You want to remove the smaller sand particles from your sand, and this requires a lot of rinsing to do right. But after that, it is no more work than anything else. 

If you use sand of regular gravel, I also recommend getting some first layer laterite, which is a clay product which has iron. You mix some into the bottom of your substrate, and it provides iron (and maybe some other nutrients) for your root plants. 

Personally I would avoid the kit setups. the filter they have is always under powered, and you'll end up wanting to replace it. And the lights they have are for display only, and won't be good at all for a planted tank. Buy a simple aquarium, and get a glass lid (which can be very cheap, depending), and a good light. If you are able to get a 48 inch tank, there are very often 40 inch high output lighting setups for sale here for very good prices. 

Lastly, for fish... well, everyone has their favorites! I have some bosemani rainbows, and I quite like them. I also have a (female) opaline gourami (a color variant of the blue), and she never causes problems with my other fishies. As suggested above, go to some LFS and check what they have, and see what appeals to you. Remember, they will grow, and well kept fish can last for years, so get something you're gonna like for a long time. 

Along those notes, the biggest piece of advice I can offer is RESEARCH RESEARCH RESEARCH your fish. Some will eat plants, some have vastly different environmental requirements (though I think the Ph and hardness requirements of fish are over exaggerated, as long as you keep the tank stable and healthy), and some grow very large. 

I found setting up my first bigger planted tank to be incredible fun. I hope you enjoy it to! 

Once you're tank it set up, if you are passing through TO send me a PM, and maybe I'll have some plant clippings I can spare : )


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## xriddler (Feb 16, 2012)

This is just my two cents. I feel that you should go with community fish and nothing aggressive with your schedule. You do not want to come back to dead fish after two weeks away and have it foul your water and killing more fish. 

Second you said you want plants so scratch out the african cichlids as they do not hang out with plants that well and will dig and redecorate to their liking. though bettas have been okay in community tanks in some situations but most of the time it just doesnt work out and having a tank with just one betta is sorta boring.


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

And I bet you thought you just buy a tank and toss in some fish!

And once you have all the equipment, then you have to decide how you want to cycle your tank.

There are a few options.

Best option is to get some used media from someone. This can cycle your tank in a matter of days and allow a bit of stock very soon. How fast you cycle depends greatly on how much used media you get.

Second best option is a fishless cycle. This means buying ammonia, I believe you can get it at home hardware. You just have to figure out how much you need to add each day, I think there is a guide here somewhere on that. This method takes a while but it is totally safe because there are no fish to hurt while you cycle.

Another option which has two ways to go and can be considered cruel by some is the fish cycle. Either putting in some junk fish like feeder goldfish or guppies and having them be the source of ammonia or starting out with the toughest fish you are wanting and using them as the ammonia source while you build up the cycle. This method has the risk of hurting or even killing some fish.

I recommend a combination of the first two methods. Getting some used media and doing fishless cycle. This would cycle the tank fast and be safe as there are no fish.

One more thing you need to buy right away is a master test kit so you can monitor the progress of your cycling.

You also need to figure out your method for doing water changes. This can be as basic as buckets or as advanced as setting up plumbing to constantly drip water into the tank with an overflow, but this can only be done if you are not on city water. Your method depends on how large the tank is, how much and how often you have to do water changes and how much work you want to do.

The majority of my tanks are in my basement and I use a garden hose for filling up and another long hose for draining. I do plan to invest in a new higher quality kinkless hose soon. I also need to get a longer drain hose as right now I drain into a 20 gallon bucket and then drag it across the floor to then drain that into my drain hole. I also plan to buy a Y splitter and shut off valve for the end of my hose. This means at my basement sink I can have the water running right into the sink while I get the right temp, then I can close off that half of the Y and open up the other half that will go to my hose. I can then take my hose to my tanks and turn another valve and allow water out of the end of the hose and turn it off from the end of the hose also. Another think I plan to get is a pump that I can use to speed up the draining as it can be quite slow with a long hose.

My new method for draining and filling up my 5.5 gallon betta tank is by using airline tubing to drain and to refill. I just set my bucket up high and siphon down into the tank to fill it up.

Some of us have multiple and large tanks and need to find the most effecient method to do water changes.

This hobby can be alot of work but most of the work is fun, just stuff like water changes is a pain in the butt. Over time you will find the methods that work best for you.

There are also many tricks people have to save money. Some example are using dollar store plastic pot scrubbers for bio media or buying a $18 shoplight as a light fixture.

Just a note about lighting. There are many different types of bulbs available, some say colour enhancing or better for plants and so on. Basically for me, I just make sure the bulbs are 6500 or 6700 k which is basically true daylight look. It really sucks when your brown sand looks pink or green or something.

Research is key like the last poster said.


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## Aquamom (Mar 11, 2013)

Ok so I have scratched cichlids, rope fish, jack dempsey off my list.

I've been looking on kijiji and have made a few inquiries. Some of them for 75 gallon tanks which is twice my original size  This project keeps getting bigger and bigger!

I also found a fish breeder nearby who has boesmani rainbows amongst other species, so maybe that will decide what I get.

I have my cycle test kit already, going to use material from another tank to start it.

That is some really great info on substrates. I guess you get pool filter sand from a pool supplies store? I would love the look of a sandy bottom. I don't mind a bit of extra initial work, as long as it isn't extra maintenance work!

I'm considering placing my tank closer to a window, so I can just empty it outdoors, then run the garden hose through the window lol. I was originally going to just do the bucket to sink thing but the tank keeps getting bigger and bigger! How long do water changes usually take? You have to do them bi-weekly right? 

About the plants, obviously they will grown but do they seed themselves or shoot up more plants? Just wondering how many plants I should be getting initially. I've read a little about CO2 too, is this necessary in a planted tank?


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## Aquamom (Mar 11, 2013)

Does this seem like a good deal?

http://barrie.kijiji.ca/c-pets-accessories-65-Gal-Fish-Tank-Stand-Filter-W0QQAdIdZ461604298


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## Aquamom (Mar 11, 2013)

Sorry, one more question. The angels I was considering where labelled as "cobalt blue pearl scale angels" but I can't find info on them online. Does anyone know what an alternate name would be for these little guys?


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

Aquamom said:


> Does this seem like a good deal?
> 
> http://barrie.kijiji.ca/c-pets-accessories-65-Gal-Fish-Tank-Stand-Filter-W0QQAdIdZ461604298


Way too expensive for a second-hand setup.

However, I was going to suggest a 65-gallon to you. It's also 36" long, so almost the same footprint as a 38-gallon. The difference is the wider depths and the height. They say angels would appreciate the extra height, and if you get a 2-bulb T5HO light, you should be able to grow most plants.

Here's a preliminary budget:

1- 65-gallon + stand from BA: 200$
2- 36" 2x39W T5HO from Aquainspiration: 110$
3- Aqueon 55/75 power filter from Petsmart: 60$
4- 200W heater: 30$

Total hardware cost: ~400$ + tax brand new.

For substrate, you can go with 2-3 bags of fluorite, which is about 70$-90$.


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## xriddler (Feb 16, 2012)

solarz is right. 

in terms of the co2 it all really depends on the plants you want. there are co2 crazy plants and there are plants that do well with just no co2 low lights and some excel now and then. 

FYI sand is more maintenance work since fish poop or things dont seep into the substrate like gravel you probably would want to clean it more often too. stuff just sits on top of sand unless you have things that eat them. ALSO because you go away for long periods of time i say start with undemanding plants and dirt substrate capped with gravel. the dirt in itself produce co2 for the plants and nutrients. You said less work/maintenance well this is a very good lazy setup. 

My tank is dirt, i change 25-50% water every two weeks and add 1ml of excel a day because i have medium light plants and not to hurt my nana vals. i do not gravel clean at all i have snails and cherry shrimp to munch on uneaten food at the bottom and feed 1/4 piece algae wafers in two locations for the night every two days. Yes my water is yellowish and my driftwood still leeches tannins too so its extra yellow sometimes but nothing a good 50% water change wont solve. because everything grows slow in my tank i have basically no trimming to do and i do not add co2 at all as the dirt breaks down uneaten food or poop it creates enough co2 for my plants. Read up on Diana waldstad method its a great beginer way to start a planted tank.


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

If you are doing a small water change adding just cold should be ok. But on larger water changes you really should try to match the temp.

Water changes depend on a few factors, your fish load, how much you feed and plants.

The general rule is 10 percent a week but this can be reduced with plants as they can lower nitrates, it can also be increased if you over feed or over stock your tank.

The thing to do is keep an eye on nitrates and use those readings for figuring out how much and often to do water changes.

I have had times where I just couldnt get nitrates to go up at all because of all the plants. In cases like that, just make sure the fish have some fresh water at times and make sure phosphates don't go up. I need to get a phosphate test kit myself. Some people just top up weekly for evaporation and do a water change every month or so. Others have to do two water changes a week.


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

pyrrolin said:


> If you are doing a small water change adding just cold should be ok. But on larger water changes you really should try to match the temp.
> 
> Water changes depend on a few factors, your fish load, how much you feed and plants.
> 
> The general rule is 10 percent a week but this can be reduced with plants as they can lower nitrates, it can also be increased if you over feed or over stock your tank.


IMO fishes are a lot tougher than that. I used to do 30% water changes straight from the tap, no temp match, no dechlor, on a 20-gallon tank with 30 cardinal tetras. The temperature would go from 75F to 68F.

Note that it depends on the fishes as well. My cardinal tetras were pretty tough, but I did experience some loss on juvie harlequin rasboras when I forgot to add dechlor to a 40% water change.

Recently, I did a big water change without noticing that my heater had broke. The water temperature was around 65F for 2 hours before I came back with a new heater. I was a bit worried, but none of the fishes seemed to have suffered any ill effect. This included otos, white clouds and albino cories.


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

As for the cobalt blue pearl scale Angel fish.. Angel fish come in a variety of colours and types nowadays. They've been selectively bred for recessive colours and patterns, as have many other fish too.

As with most animals, if it is a newer variant, the supply will be small and the cost will be higher than for the commonly available colours. Good quality specimens will cost a lot more than ordinary angels do. But care and behaviour is the same.

Pearl scales, I have to say, are a very beautiful variant. Their scales seem to shimmer, very like the inside of a shell, which is what pearls are made of, hence the name. I have not seen the blue ones, but the silver ones are stunning.

There are a number of colour variants with Angels now. The standard Angel they all come from is silver with vertical black stripes. Then you have black ones, marbles, Koi [ they have orange on the heads ], among many others, including the Pearl scales.

If you especially like the look of one particular type, best thing is keep an eye out and hope to find young ones for a decent price and raise them yourself. You might get lucky and find older ones if someone is getting out of fish keeping, which happens more often than you might think. Keep an eye on the buy/sell ads and Kijiji, but make sure you don't get rooked on Kijiji, prices there can often be outrageously high.

If you are fortunate, you may end up with a breeding pair and have a shot at raising fry later on, if you wish to try that. If you have not succumbed to Multiple Tank Syndrome before that, a desire to try fry raising can be the start of the ailment . It's hard to stick to just one tank.. at least, for a lot of us, it's hard, so MTS is very common among aquarists.


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## Aquamom (Mar 11, 2013)

MTS, I like that! Lol. Thanks again for all the tips. I've decided to stick with a used 28 gallon bowfront for now, and see how I like fish keeping before I possibly get a bigger tank. I want to make sure I am up for the maintenance. I've had aquariums before but only 10-15 gallons, and several years ago. I vaguely remember just using straight tap water and matching the temp with my hand before adding it and it worked well. Mind you I always kept hardy guppies and whatnot.
Thanks again for the tips, what a wonderfully useful site, and somewhat local to boot!


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

Yep, I did much the same back in high school. None of this cycling or water conditioner stuff. But municipal tap water is not what it used to be, and even some well water is not always safe, though it depends where it's coming from. But cycling has huge benefits, so it's well worth figuring out.

If I might suggest, unless you like lugging buckets, they have nifty gadgets now for doing water changes without a bucket. Try to find one on sale, they can be pricey, but well worth it. I got mine used and then got extra hose for it at Home Depot for a quarter what the LFS store wanted for an extension.

Python is one brand, Aqueon makes one as well, and both incorporate a gravel vacuum with the hose, which attaches to the tap and both suck water out and put water back in.

Only real drawback to them is that you will waste some water getting the siphon started and equalizing temperature at the tap so you don't add water that's too cold or too hot. You add the water conditioner to the tank with the water, and so far, this does not seem to bother the fish, even with quite large water changes. Sure saves the back with water changes, and helps cut down on spills too. The gadgets have shut off valves that control water output. I even use mine to water some of my larger plants !

Aqueon, if you are willing to buy the spare hose kit, has an extra piece on its tap fitting that will allow adding a second hose at the bottom, so you can run some or all of the waste water into a bucket instead of down the drain.. Python does not allow this alteration.

I've got a snap on fitting for the tap,what you would use for a portable dish washer, [ I have one of those, so it's handy ], and when I need to hook up the water changer, I have another adapter that is always attached to it that snaps onto the dishwasher fitting. So no screwing on and off with the water changer.


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## Aquamom (Mar 11, 2013)

Fishfur;315619
If I might suggest said:


> , and when I need to hook up the water changer, I have another adapter that is always attached to it that snaps onto the dishwasher fitting. So no screwing on and off with the water changer.


That is an awesome suggestion, thanks, I will definitely be looking into this! Does it matter how close the tank is to the sink? It is currently 10ft or so away.


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

Standard kits have, I believe, a choice in hose lengths, up to fifty feet, maybe ? Not sure, I have not really checked, as I've had no need for anything bigger than what I have. 

And you can add to the length if you need to. Ten feet is no problem, my sink is a bit farther away than that and I use just the basic Aqueon kit, in the smallest length it comes in. I think it's either 20 or 25 feet long. Doesn't look that long all rolled up though.


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

Most that I have seen are standard 25 feet and you can get them 50 feet also, so 10 feet is not a problem at all


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## Aquamom (Mar 11, 2013)

I just watched the aqueon product guide for those on YouTube and it say the sink needs to be level with or lower than then tank. 




Too bad as I have a sunken living room that would look pretty cool with a 75 gallon tank!

At the end of the video it recommends only doing a 25% water change every month though. Which would only be 4-5 buckets a month, is that true? I had it in my head it was more every week or at the very least biweekly? How often do people on here do water changes?

Also, does this sound like it would be way overstocked:

28 gallon tank (18" tall)

Angel pair
3 panda Cory's
3 guppies
3 sunset wag platys.
Snail

Keeping in mind that if the angels outgrow the tank I would either move them into the bigger tank or find them a new home elsewhere? The lady at the fish store told me they only grow as big as their tank allows but I'm not sure how true that is...


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## xriddler (Feb 16, 2012)

if you are attaching the hose to the sink faucet i believe you do not need the sink to be lower than the tank as it uses the water pumping out of the faucet to pull water from your tank. But i think you just have to turn the tap flow a bit faster. When you want to let gravity do the work for you then the sink is required to be lower than the tank. 

WC is just a guideline. you dont HAVE to do it weekly or biweekly but it also depends on your water parameters. I like to do mine biweekly 50% just to clear up my tannins in my tank but i do notice it does stress the fish a little so i might cut back to 25% weekly.


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## NuclearTech (Mar 23, 2008)

Aquamom said:


> Keeping in mind that if the angels outgrow the tank I would either move them into the bigger tank or find them a new home elsewhere? The lady at the fish store told me they only grow as big as their tank allows but I'm not sure how true that is...


Hi Aquamom,

My opinion is that the lady at the store is correct in saying that the Angel's will only grow as big as their tank allows. Another way to think of this statement follows: if you locked a golden retriever puppy in a tiny cage meant for a toy dog, he wouldn't grow beyond that cage not because he wasn't genetically designed to, but because he physically couldn't. No respectable dog owner would do that. Sounds different when you think of it that way, no?

Eventually, I think you will _want_ to get a larger tank for the Angels. They are so beautiful when allowed to reach their potential. I bet you'll want to see that.


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

Aquamom said:


> Keeping in mind that if the angels outgrow the tank I would either move them into the bigger tank or find them a new home elsewhere? The lady at the fish store told me they only grow as big as their tank allows but I'm not sure how true that is...


Moving a tank is far more work than starting with a large tank to begin with. Remember that you need to cycle a tank before it can be ready for fish, and that process takes at least a few days even with a mature filter. This means that you would need to keep both tanks running at the same time. This also means that you cannot just "replace" a tank. You need to start a new tank, wait for it to cycle, move the fish over, and then take down the old tank.

It's a lot of work that can be spared by just going with a large tank in the first place.

If you go with a planted tank, you practically never need to worry about water changes, especially on a large, under-stocked tank. I haven't done any water changes in my 79-gallon tank for months now.

On the other hand, if you keep a high stocking level in a small tank, then you *DO* need to do regular, possibly weekly, water changes.


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## Aquamom (Mar 11, 2013)

NuclearTech said:


> Hi Aquamom,
> 
> My opinion is that the lady at the store is correct in saying that the Angel's will only grow as big as their tank allows. Another way to think of this statement follows: if you locked a golden retriever puppy in a tiny cage meant for a toy dog, he wouldn't grow beyond that cage not because he wasn't genetically designed to, but because he physically couldn't. No respectable dog owner would do that. Sounds different when you think of it that way, no?
> 
> Eventually, I think you will _want_ to get a larger tank for the Angels. They are so beautiful when allowed to reach their potential. I bet you'll want to see that.


True, ya I guess it does seem a bit mean! I'm still learning about all this so thanks for putting up with my ignorance and helping me out. I saw some diamond tetras I may put in the 28g instead. They are quite pretty and don't get too big.

Solaris that's very good to know about water changes not being needed as frequently on large planted tanks! I'd love to have an ecosystem that needs as little interference from me as possible. I was looking at a 65g today and considering... I wouldn't be replacing tanks necessarily, just adding a new one, then would move certain fish over once cycled. But that's still in the future, gonna work with the 28g for now.

How would this sound for the 28g:

6 diamond tetras
6 guppies
6 sunset platys or danios or neons
3 panda Cory's
Snail
Lots of plants!

Is that overstocked or ok? The only thing is before I was counting on the angels keeping the guppy population down, I guess I could get all boys though.


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

that sounds pretty good, might even have a tiny bit of room left over. Watch out for guppies breeding though or your tank can be over stocked fast


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## Jackson (Jan 30, 2009)

Min 6+ corys is how you should keep them


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## xriddler (Feb 16, 2012)

pyrrolin said:


> that sounds pretty good, might even have a tiny bit of room left over. Watch out for guppies breeding though or your tank can be over stocked fast


cant she just get all male guppies ? im not a fan of live bearers so i would go with neons since they look spectacular when they school and you can get more than 6 since they are smaller and they do much better with larger numbers. i would go with 10+ neons, 8 diamond tetras and 6 corys and if you have alot of plant cover some cherry shrimps. Of course you will lose some shrimplets but if you have alot of cover the chances of survival is higher.

Also for snails i would not buy any snails on initial setup especially if you are buying plants from other members and not a LFS. I would wait a month after you fully plant your tank to see if you acquired any run away snails. Too bad you are so far away i could infect you with red ramhorns no problem 

some plants i would recommend is Amazon frogbits as they provide some cover over your ecosystem, i would not go with duckweed because they are messy and it was all over my tank. the long roots of frogbits are quite beautiful and mesmerizing. stem plants really help, consuming ammonia, nitrite and nitrate more efficiently IMHO. Easiest stem plant for me was hygrophila polysperma and its variations.


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## Aquamom (Mar 11, 2013)

I read that bettas will eat the fry too. I have a male betta who would appreciate the live food (he is kept alone). I know it seems mean feeding him the babies, but the shrimp and worms etc that I feed him were all alive once too, such is the circle of life! He'd probably thrive on fresh organic meat  Maybe I could add a female betta to my community tank too. I also read diamond tetras eat the occasional fry. 

If I chose not to go with guppies, can someone else recommend a colourful fish that would go in my tank? I like neons but they aren't my favourite. Something with red or orange would really pop in a planted tank. Any ideas?

Also just reading about oto cats. What are people's opinions of otos vs Cory's?


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## bob123 (Dec 31, 2009)

Hello; I'm a little late posting but I keep many Angels and all are in tall tanks 20 to 24 inches and have no problem with growing low light plants with a standard flouescent tube light. A 30-35 gallon tank is okay if you just want to have two Angels in it with a couple of other fish and maybe a bottom feeder. I would suggest a 65 gallon tall and you would have room for 2- pairs of Angels and some dither fish, Cherry barbs, Danios or maybe Rasboras. Remember what every you decide they are your choice, good luck.


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## NuclearTech (Mar 23, 2008)

Aquamom said:


> How would this sound for the 28g:
> 
> 6 diamond tetras
> 6 guppies
> ...


Sounds very colourful  +1 to bob123. Whatever you decide...


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