# Starting up to breed



## ScarletFire (Nov 4, 2012)

Hi, I'm planning to start breeding plecos. I have a 29 gal tank with it's water parameters currently 1KH, 4GH, 100TDS. It's still cycling, and I have some hardy plants in it to take up the nitrites. After it's done cycling, is it okay to start by breeding longfin BNs? I read that BNs breed like rabbits, but I really like the longfin variation of the BN. Do they breed just as easily?

Does a breeding tank really need to have 20-40% water changes every week? Wouldn't that shock the plecos because of the change?


----------



## Hitch (Apr 26, 2009)

The Longfin ones breed just as easily as the shortfins. and Yes they breed like rabbits. You just need some suitable cave/cave-like locations for them.

As for water changes, as long as the quality of the water is good, the BNs will breed. When I use to have them/breed them, I have never paid too much attention to them and just weekly 20-ish% water changes. I usually make sure the water is a couple of degrees cooler to simulate a rain fall.


----------



## ScarletFire (Nov 4, 2012)

Hitch said:


> The Longfin ones breed just as easily as the shortfins. and Yes they breed like rabbits. You just need some suitable cave/cave-like locations for them.
> 
> As for water changes, as long as the quality of the water is good, the BNs will breed. When I use to have them/breed them, I have never paid too much attention to them and just weekly 20-ish% water changes. I usually make sure the water is a couple of degrees cooler to simulate a rain fall.


For the caves, did you use PVC pipes? If you did, did you need to treat it in something so it doesn't contaminate the water/leak?

If I had a sponge filter, HOB, and eheim, could I get away with 10% water changes?


----------



## Hitch (Apr 26, 2009)

I have never used PVC pipes for caves, but if you get them from the plumbing section, they would be water safe. Just make sure to also get the corresponding cap to close off one of the ends. Some people on here sell caves of the right size from time to time, and I think John (suggarglider) also carries caves.

as for water changes, I was doing the 20% water change while the tank is filtered with 3x the filtration. But since you are working with BNs, I would imagine 10% would be sufficient as they are very hardy. a 20% water change would not be stressful for the fish at all unless you are adding freezing cold water.


----------



## ScarletFire (Nov 4, 2012)

Did you not choose to use PVCs because it doesn't look natural? 

I read somewhere that BNs will eat away at the plants. How heavily planted should the tank be after cycling before putting in livestock? If I just feed algae wafers, is that diet sufficient for breeding, or do I need to have bloodworms?


----------



## Hitch (Apr 26, 2009)

ScarletFire said:


> Did you not choose to use PVCs because it doesn't look natural?


yap



ScarletFire said:


> I read somewhere that BNs will eat away at the plants. How heavily planted should the tank be after cycling before putting in livestock? If I just feed algae wafers, is that diet sufficient for breeding, or do I need to have bloodworms?


I think there is mixed opinion on this. And Im not sure how much of it is due to people thinking herbivores will eat plants. I have never seen the BNs actively eating the plants, small ones will graze on leaves for biofilm and algea etc. As for diet, a mixed diet is good. As long as its mostly veggie based.


----------



## ScarletFire (Nov 4, 2012)

Hitch said:


> yap
> 
> I think there is mixed opinion on this. And Im not sure how much of it is due to people thinking herbivores will eat plants. I have never seen the BNs actively eating the plants, small ones will graze on leaves for biofilm and algea etc. As for diet, a mixed diet is good. As long as its mostly veggie based.


What type of plants did you have in your tank when you bred plecos?


----------



## Hitch (Apr 26, 2009)

Nowadays just anubias and moss. But use to have some swords, crypts, vals and javas.


----------



## ScarletFire (Nov 4, 2012)

What's your opinion of using purigen? Should it be a concern that I could possibly make the water too clean, so that slight changes in water parameters can affect the pleco greatly?


----------



## Bantario (Apr 10, 2011)

My 20g res tank has a pair of LF albino and they breed like rabbits, I will seperate them soon...It was not my intention to breed them in this tank, it just happened 


The water in that tank gets changed completly 5-6 times a week!
The water that goes in is straight from the cold tap and treated with prime,
fresh cucumber or zucchini every day for the fry and the odd algea waffer and I get fry, 75-100 eggs each time and a survival rate would be around 60-70%

You are welcome to have a some fry out of this final batch! 
Pm me!


----------



## Hitch (Apr 26, 2009)

ScarletFire said:


> What's your opinion of using purigen? Should it be a concern that I could possibly make the water too clean, so that slight changes in water parameters can affect the pleco greatly?


dont worry too much about water cleaniness. IMO getting purigen is a waste of money, as it doesnt do anything extra that normal biological filtration and water changes wont do. I think of purigen as a glorified carbon filtration.

The only thing that matters with breeding is a properly cycled tank (ie no ammonia and nitrites, regular water changes will eliminate the nitrates) and stability.


----------



## ScarletFire (Nov 4, 2012)

A person offered me $40 for an eheim 2211, and $35 for AC70. Sites say that the Eheim 2211 filters up to 39gal, and AC70 filters up to 70 gal. He's also offering a new dual sponge filter to attach onto the Eheim intake for $6. Is this a good price? And is it sufficient filtration?


----------



## Hitch (Apr 26, 2009)

ScarletFire said:


> A person offered me $40 for an eheim 2211, and $35 for AC70. Sites say that the Eheim 2211 filters up to 39gal, and AC70 filters up to 70 gal. He's also offering a new dual sponge filter to attach onto the Eheim intake for $6. Is this a good price? And is it sufficient filtration?


Let me start by saying I am biased towards Eheim cannisters as all of my tanks have them. I always loved them for their filtration ability, ease of maintenance and absolute soundless-ness...lol. Which is why I never liked HOB filters and Aquaclears.

I dont have a fishroom, so all of my tanks are either in the living room or in my bedroom. So anything that makes noise is a no no in my books. And I find no matter how silent a AC filter is, its still too loud for me.

I say 40 for a 2211 is a good price, as long as its not like 10 years old with parts missing and broken, or constanly makes a rattle. I think 35 for a AC70 is acceptable, though I remember a while ago BA was having a sale on them for $20 each and it turned out the motor/pump on it was not good. So I would be wary of that. As for the dual sponge filtration, I dont really think you need it, but 6 is a decent price for it as long as it fits (I never tried them.).


----------



## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

Make sure the impeller is good on the AC, they are quite quiet when good, loud as hell when getting worn out. I have one that has deep grooves in the magnet part. $35 isnt a bad price for ac 70, but not a great price either.

For HOB filters I love AC, so cheap for media as it can last a long time if cared for properly. I have every size but the 30 but haven't used my ac70 yet. Key seems to be cleaning the impeller regularly to keep the noise down, and the part it sits in.

but for quiet filters, canisters are great.

and a way to help reduce water changes, plants help keep nitrates down. Lately some of my tanks have been staying at 0 nitrates and its annoying me because I want to have some nitrates for the plants but they keep using it all up. At least I don't have to be on top of water changes all the time now.


----------



## ScarletFire (Nov 4, 2012)

pyrrolin said:


> Make sure the impeller is good on the AC, they are quite quiet when good, loud as hell when getting worn out.


Is it okay to test it if no water is running through it?


----------



## Jackson (Jan 30, 2009)

ScarletFire said:


> Is it okay to test it if no water is running through it?


No that's how they break and become noisy. Test it with water in the filter.


----------



## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

Hitch said:


> Let me start by saying I am biased towards Eheim cannisters as all of my tanks have them. I always loved them for their filtration ability, ease of maintenance and absolute soundless-ness...


Don't qoute me on this. But from my personal experience, I find that you need alot of dissolve oxygen to trigger them to breed. The survival of the fry seems better and they tend to grow faster as well. Just my gut feeling as I am trying to simulate as close to Rio Xingu as possible. 

*Never pay again for live sex! | Hot girls doing naughty stuff for free! | Chat for free!*


----------



## ScarletFire (Nov 4, 2012)

Zebrapl3co said:


> Don't qoute me on this. But from my personal experience, I find that you need alot of dissolve oxygen to trigger them to breed. The survival of the fry seems better and they tend to grow faster as well. Just my gut feeling as I am trying to simulate as close to Rio Xingu as possible.


I have a pretty powerful air pump. Other than a sponge filter, do I need an air stone and a power head?


----------



## Hitch (Apr 26, 2009)

ScarletFire said:


> I have a pretty powerful air pump. Other than a sponge filter, do I need an air stone and a power head?


As long as the water line is above the top of the sponge filter tube, the surface agitation is more than enough to saturate the water with O2. So I doubt you would need more air stones, but it wont hurt to add it. If you have a cycled sponge filter, you dont even need other filtration. A lot of breeders I know just use a sponge filter in their breeding tanks. (although that could also be because its cheaper to run 40 tanks with sponge filter than to have 40 HOB/cannisters.


----------



## ScarletFire (Nov 4, 2012)

What kind of aquatic plants are good for LF BN plecos? I recently got java moss, rotala indica, rotala rotundifolia, sunset hygro. Some myaca is floating at the top as I have yet to plant them.


----------



## Hitch (Apr 26, 2009)

ScarletFire said:


> What kind of aquatic plants are good for LF BN plecos? I recently got java moss, rotala indica, rotala rotundifolia, sunset hygro. Some myaca is floating at the top as I have yet to plant them.


BNs dont really bother with plants. For fry and juvis, they like to graze on the algea of broad leafed plants...adults dont even care about them.

So things like anubias works.


----------



## ScarletFire (Nov 4, 2012)

Is starting with one or two pairs of LF albino plecos recommended?


----------



## Hitch (Apr 26, 2009)

doesnt really matter


----------

