# algea problem



## stack (Dec 10, 2008)

hiya guys!

So i have had this algea for a few months now i thought i had it under control but it seems to be spreading up on plants and allover the substrate
i have 2.2wpg and 2,2L diy C02 and i excel once every 2ish days,Flourish once a week. light are on 30min off 15min,8hours a day

i have cut out the plants that were hit and some of the substrate but there to much to do that....what should i do ?

i have mollys,shrimp,golden algea eaters in there but there lazy, ive slowed down feeding them also.

here are the best pics i could get of it.


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## Calmer (Mar 9, 2008)

You could shut the filter off and use the excel as a spot treatment and then turn the filter back on in at least 15 minutes or so later. Use a oral medicine syringe to deliver the excel. Maybe split up the Flourish to twice a week and see how that works. What do you mean by " light are on 30min off 15min "?


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## stack (Dec 10, 2008)

So i would spot treat each peice of gravel affected?

i have the light on a timer to be ON 30mins the OFF 15min over and over so not to give the algea a chance to photosynthesize.


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## characinfan (Dec 24, 2008)

*algae problem*

Snails work well. If your tank then becomes infested with snails, see if you can borrow a _Carinotetraodon_ puffer. They eat snails like candy and they won't bother other fish so long as there are snails to destroy.


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## Calmer (Mar 9, 2008)

stack said:


> So i would spot treat each peice of gravel affected?


You just have to closely spray a jet of the excel across the area where the algae is. Use the amount you would use that day then see if anything happens. It does take a few days for the algae to show signs of dying off.



stack said:


> i have the light on a timer to be ON 30mins the OFF 15min over and over so not to give the algea a chance to photosynthesize.


Do you see any improvement with that? I have never heard of that before.


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## Mr Fishies (Sep 21, 2007)

stack said:


> i have the light on a timer to be ON 30mins the OFF 15min over and over so not to give the algea a chance to photosynthesize.


I'd be surprised if the on/off trick would help in the long run. Algae can survive on a lot less light than plants - you may be doing more to affect your plants than the algae. Plants need more light for a longer period of time in order for the photosynthetic process to get going. I know when my driftwood had bad algae on it, the algae was pearling a lot earlier than the plants.

You don't mention what you are doing for fertilization. I think BBA will get a good hold and thrive off PO4 if your tank is depleted of NO3. When there is no (or low) NO3 the plants slow/stop their uptake PO4 but the algae doesn't. Do you have a test kit to check these? With 2+ WPG, your plants can use up nutrients in a hurry.

We're trying to grow plants, not fight or prevent algae. Many things we might do to fight algae will affect plants in a negative way too. If conditions that are good for plants can be maintained, the algae will usually stop being a nuisance.

There's a pretty decent bit on this (nutrient levels and beard algae) here: http://www.aquahobby.com/articles/e_freshwater_algae.php


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## stack (Dec 10, 2008)

well now that i have a spare few mins boy end of december is allways buzy
i was not ferting at all...bad me, read lots about dry ones but am confuzed
if there a all in one dry concoction?
iam now using Big Al's Multi-Purpose Plant Food,and also picked up a real nice glass co2 diffuser,wow that thing works great

so iam ferting twice a week now after the lights go out(first week)so i have not seen any changes yet.


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

stack said:


> i was not ferting at all...bad me, read lots about dry ones but am confuzed
> if there a all in one dry concoction?


There is no "all in one" dry concoction. Unfortunately, you will have to mix your macronutrients and micronutrients up yourself. It's really not that hard, and I'm sure we can help if you have questions, just ask them 



stack said:


> iam now using Big Al's Multi-Purpose Plant Food
> 
> so iam ferting twice a week now after the lights go out(first week)so i have not seen any changes yet.


I believe their multi-purpose plant food is just a micronutrient supplement. I do not recall seeing it supplying any macronutrients, but I could be wrong.


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## stack (Dec 10, 2008)

Darkblade48 said:


> There is no "all in one" dry concoction. Unfortunately, you will have to mix your macronutrients and micronutrients up yourself. It's really not that hard, and I'm sure we can help if you have questions, just ask them
> 
> I believe their multi-purpose plant food is just a micronutrient supplement. I do not recall seeing it supplying any macronutrients, but I could be wrong.


cool thanks!
so whats the difference betwine micronutrient & macronutrients?
i've seen a few places online that sell the dry ferts, whats your guys opinion on where to get them and perhaps a list of which ones to get,also i guess i need a scale will one of thos Digital Scales be ok?, I want to measure in grams?
Whats the reason of not haveing a all in one? Do different setups call for different ferts?


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## desjardo (Aug 30, 2008)

Hmm. What about this solution?
http://www.dras.ca/articles/articlegoingplanted.html
It seems simple and has worked so far for me.


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

stack said:


> so whats the difference betwine micronutrient & macronutrients?]


Plants require two types of nutrients: micronutrients and macronutrients. The former includes various elements that are needed in smaller quantities, such as copper, zinc, molybdenum, manganese, boron, and so forth.

Macronutrients are elements that plants require in larger amounts, such as nitrogen, phosphorus and potassium (NPK).



stack said:


> i've seen a few places online that sell the dry ferts, whats your guys opinion on where to get them and perhaps a list of which ones to get


Hydrotech Hydroponics is the store I use (you can Google them); they have a location in Markham and another on Kingston Road in Scarborough.

You will need to get potassium nitrate, potassium sulfate, magnesium sulfate (you can get this from Shopper's Drug Mart/ Wal Mart for a better price), potassium monohydrogen phosphate and also the micronutrient mix.



stack said:


> also i guess i need a scale will one of thos Digital Scales be ok?, I want to measure in grams?


Yes, a digital scale will be fine. You want to be able to measure in grams, but there are also less accurate forms of preparing fertilizer mixes (i.e. with teaspoons and tablespoons) for those that have gram-weight aversion.



stack said:


> Whats the reason of not haveing a all in one? Do different setups call for different ferts?


With an all in one, you would not be able to tailor it to each tank's individual needs. Do note that you can do two forms of dosing: either dry dosing, or preparing a liquid solution that you can dose in a liquid form on a regular basis (I prefer the latter, but to each his/her own). In this way, for example, in a 10g tank, I might be adding 5 mL of a macro/micronutrient solution. If I were to use the same solution on a 90g tank, I would have to add 9 times as much, or, with separate dry fertilizers, I could just easily make up a batch that is 9 times as concentrated.

In short, not having an all in one fertilizer allows for more customization and flexibility. In addition, adding potassium monohydrogen phosphate with the iron may cause iron phosphate to form, which is a precipitate, and cannot be used by plants in this form.



desjardo said:


> Hmm. What about this solution?
> http://www.dras.ca/articles/articlegoingplanted.html
> It seems simple and has worked so far for me.


I briefly looked over the dosing regime mentioned on this site, and it seems as if it's a variation of PMDD (Poor Man's Dupla/Dosing Drops) from a Sears and Collins' article from many years back. There are newer fertilization regimes available (i.e. PPS-Pro as well as EI dosing), that I have found to be much more effective than PMDD. Also, do note that PMDD does not add phosphates to the water column (this was back when it was believed that adding phosphates would increase algae. This is a common misconception; it is more accurate to say that an excess of phosphates with an absence of other nutrients will lead to algae), showing how out-dated the PMDD regime is.


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## desjardo (Aug 30, 2008)

Is there a recipe anywhere for the method you are using that doesnt require a scale? My fiancee made me get rid of mine years ago. Thus I still have a fiancee! (Joke)


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## stack (Dec 10, 2008)

wow thank you very much darkblade you have made my life that much easier,ive been reading everywhere trying to come up with a stright answer.


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## Mr Fishies (Sep 21, 2007)

stack said:


> i was not ferting at all...bad me, read lots about dry ones but am confuzed


At least you've found the likely source of your problem! Algae will grow in a cup of water with light, plants need a bit more support to survive.

You may still have some reading and calculating to do but Darkblade offered a lot of good info. Whatever you do, don't get too hung up on matching what works for someone else on some site...they have a different tank, different plants, different water, more fish (source of N&P) , less fish...you get the idea. You won't see overnight changes since plants take time to adapt to their environment. You need to find a conservative routine and stick with it, keep conditions stable for a few weeks in order to truly see if it's working.

If you don't want to go the full route and collect all the dry items above, you might find you can get good results with 4 items: KNO3, KH2PO4, Seachem Equilibrium and Seachem Flourish Trace (not Iron). I've sort of been following the EI light routine and while I am shooting for the low end of the suggested levels and trying to work with gradually longer periods between water changes things have been progressing nicely.



desjardo said:


> Is there a recipe anywhere for the method you are using that doesnt require a scale? My fiancee made me get rid of mine years ago. Thus I still have a fiancee! (Joke)


Over on APC, there is a Flash app called the Fertilator to calculate dosing regimes, it also has a conversion table to convert various dry ferts to/from tsp/tbsp/gram etc.

A decent .1 gram scale can be found for <$30, there's one for ~$19 at Lee Valley, but I'm guilty of just using dry volume measures so far.


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

The fertilator is a good resource for those that have gram aversion, and will provide volume measurements. Do remember that these kind of measurements are only so accurate.


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## blossom112 (Mar 19, 2008)

I have that hydroponic stuff your talking about darkblade ....
now i should get "potassium nitrate, potassium sulfate, magnesium sulfate "

Do i ask my pharmasist for this ? they have it in powder form ....... then oh boy how much ..

so when i make my waterbottle of the hydroponic stuff i put in that also ??
(i got it from jim) he explained it but i can never remember lol
Thanks Doreen.

I do have flourish comprehensive plant supplement ... i can finish that bottle or is the hydroponic better .


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## PPulcher (Nov 17, 2006)

Magnesium sulfate is epsom salts, and you can get this at the pharmacy. I don't think they'll have the other stuff.


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

blossom112 said:


> I have that hydroponic stuff your talking about darkblade ....
> now i should get "potassium nitrate, potassium sulfate, magnesium sulfate "


You should get all of these. Don't forget that you need the potassium dihydrogen phosphate as well.



blossom112 said:


> Do i ask my pharmasist for this ? they have it in powder form ....... then oh boy how much ..


The only thing you will be able to obtain at the pharmacy is the magnesium sulfate (Epsom salts). Price-wise, it's about $6.00 - $8.00 for a tub of 800 grams, depending on what you're buying.



blossom112 said:


> so when i make my waterbottle of the hydroponic stuff i put in that also ??


Put what in?



blossom112 said:


> I do have flourish comprehensive plant supplement ... i can finish that bottle or is the hydroponic better .


For trace elements, you can use the Flourish first, and then you can switch to the hydroponic trace elements, if you wish (it's cheaper in the long run, compared to using commercial products).


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## blossom112 (Mar 19, 2008)

Thanks !!!


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## stack (Dec 10, 2008)

is there a mirco trace mix that does not have any copper (for shrimp) or is the little bit in it ok?

hydrotechhydroponics there is Copper 0.1% 
rexrigg's it is Plantex CSM+B 0.10% Copper .

what you think?


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

stack said:


> is there a mirco trace mix that does not have any copper (for shrimp) or is the little bit in it ok?
> 
> hydrotechhydroponics there is Copper 0.1%
> rexrigg's it is Plantex CSM+B 0.10% Copper .
> ...


There was a discussion about this awhile back, actually. I made the comment back then (and still am not) sure whether the amount of copper in the Hydrotech Hydroponics Trace mix (nor Plantex CSM + boron, for that matter) is at a high enough concentration to harm shrimp.

Ideally, you'd have to figure out at what levels copper becomes toxic to shrimp. From there, you could probably calculate how much actual copper you are adding to the water column. I have a feeling though, it wouldn't be high enough to harm shrimp. Consider that you're not adding that much trace mix in the first place, and that copper is only 0.1% of the total weight. Next, the copper would be diluted in a much larger water volume (your aquarium). Finally, I believe the Hydrotech Hydroponics trace mix has chelated copper (I'm not sure with the CSM), which should theoretically make it less toxic.


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## zenkeri (Jan 17, 2009)

Hi Stack new to the gtaa. From the photos it looks like you have black hair algae, very hard to remove physically, I had it all over all the rocks and plants, makes a nice black carpet. Try getting some siamese algae eaters, Crossocheilus siamensis. Don't get them mixed up w/ flying foxes, sometimes they sell them under the same name and look very similar the difference is the black strip on the siamese runs right through the tail fins. They work great on the black hair algae and they don't bother any other fish. wait a few weeks and it should be all manageable, you will see only light traces of the algae left. I've six in my 115g planted.The golden algae eaters they get aggressive when older and also stop eating algae. Hope this helps.


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