# Help, tank poisoning my fish



## loachman (Jan 21, 2012)

All, tried everything and still tank is killing my fish, any suggestions would be welcome.

55 gallon tank, used set up many months ago.
Filter - established AQ 70 and new Eheim 2213, substrate, filter floss, foam, no carbon
substrate, black sand, lava rock
- planned to house Tropheus.
- let the tank run for several weeks with a few goldfish
- so with established filter AQ70, bought tropheus group and put them in. they did not eat for well over a week, removed them to another tank and they were fine.
- put in group of yellow labs for about 3 weeks, all fine and eating. Thought the tank is now good, water changes weekly.
- put in a different group of tropheus, they seemed ok but slowly started not to eat. dosed with metro, started to eat thought everything is ok, some started to get sick slowly and lost a few.
- thought it might be lava rock, took it all out and boiled it and put it back in. they seemed better but had another die
- removed tropheus to another tank and they are doing fine. 
- tore the tank down and washed and rinsed with baking powder
- reloaded with lava rock, filled and used existing filters, water crystal clear so decided to load a clown loach as had some in there in the past and they died within a day.
- day 1 clown fine, day 2 clown dead? Had a pleco in that tank earlier and it died within a day also.
- water test, 0 nitrate and nitrite and 0 for ammonia. water is from well and fine for all my other tanks, hard water, should be good for cichlids. Many other tanks with clowns and plecos in them and they are doing well
what else can it be as it seems to slowly poison my tropheus, yellow labs ok, kills clown loaches and plecos quickly? Only thing left is the filters??
Help, don't want to put any more fish in there as they will just die. Any suggestions would be appreciated.


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## BillD (Jun 5, 2006)

What are you using for sand? If you suspected a pathogen (possibly from goldfish) a bleach treatment would have been of more use than baking soda.


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## loachman (Jan 21, 2012)

black sand blasting sand. Have it in many of my other tanks and no issues. Was thinking of using bleach but was hesitant and thought the baking soda would have done the job. Do you think that may be it or would it have anything to do with my filter? AQ 70 was already being used on another tank and no issues, 2213 was newly set up. Not sure what else it could be?


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## Ralfie Boy (Apr 18, 2011)

I had a leaching problem from my stained oak stand cover that was bought many years ago from Big Als. Removed it and no more dead plecos or loaches. The other fish seemed to be doing okay. It took me a while to figure out. It sucks when you have a bunch of tanks and one gives you a problem like this. I hope you find the source of the contaminant.


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## Mlevi (Jan 28, 2012)

loachman said:


> black sand blasting sand. Have it in many of my other tanks and no issues....


Just brainstorming...."Sandblasting sand" can sometimes be grit or it can be slag. I had a problem with slag many years ago, yet some people have had success with it. I decided not to use those iron fillings ever again, as it makes sense that they're not inert and can affect the equilibrium of the tank. Did your sand come from the same bag as any of your other tanks? There is no quality control when it comes to the constituents of 'sandblasting sand', and it could be the ratios of the constituents in this specific batch?


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## loachman (Jan 21, 2012)

it is grit sand, 12 grit size. Yes used the same bag in other tanks and no issues. I suppose i could drain and tear it down again and use bleach if the source of the toxic is from the tank, but not sure. Could anything be from my eheim 2213 putting something toxic to some fish? Hate to keep putting my clowns or plecos as guinea pigs to see if the tank is ok or not as I have lost quite a few now. I am going to see if anyone else has any thoughts before i tear down, bleach and change out the sand.

As for leaching don't think anything could be leaching as only have glass tops and then light.

any other thoughts would be welcome.


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## Mlevi (Jan 28, 2012)

Ok, so eliminated Sand (since it is the same as other tanks), Water (as that is the same source as other tanks too), and the AC70 Filter (as that was fine on other tank). That leaves the 2213 or the tank itself carrying something, as the source. 

Guess the quick solution (without more losses) would be to tear down tank totally, as, anything other than that you attempt, could potentially lead to loss of more fish. I'd tear down the tank totally, sterilize / clean everything (as everything in that tank is now a potential source of contamination - if it is a pathogen), and keep my fingers crossed that the issue will not resurface.

I'm just darn curious about what it could be, as I hate unsolved problems


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## loachman (Jan 21, 2012)

yeah was thinking the same thing, but didn't want to do it again since I just did it last week. Guess will have to bleach the tank and boil the rocks all again. As well tear down my 2213 and start with new media. If I do it again I am going to run it just on the AQ70 to see if that works and then maybe intro the 2213 later on. Can't imagine what it could be that would affect loaches and plecos and slowly kill my tropheus but not affect my yellow labs? Strange. Think I might switch out the gravel as well and or boil that also.


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## Lee_D (Jun 11, 2010)

I don't see any mention of temperature. Any chance the tank has a flakey heater? The fish that die might not be able to take elevated temperatures.

Lee


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## loachman (Jan 21, 2012)

heater is consistent around 80 degrees.


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

This might be way off base, but you said you have glass tops ? Any chance at all it could be restricted oxygen exchange ? The fish that died perhaps were more sensitive to lower oxygen levels ? Strictly a stab in the dark.. if I had a problem like this it would be making me absolutely crazy. I had a problem, marginally like this once, and it did drive me crazy.

A thought. Since you've already torn it down once, if it turns out you do have to do it again, rather than boil or bleach your substrate, replace it entirely with something else. Baking soda wouldn't likely kill much of anything dangerous, but even so, on the theory that if it is a pathogen, it might be a sneaky, stubborn one; perhaps it makes spores that can survive most any attempt to sterilize. The price of new substrate could be the least labour intensive way to go ? I might even be tempted to scrape out the silicone and reseal the tank entirely, though that is a labour intensive, pesky task. If there is any decor, like rocks, replace them also. There are some bacteria, I can't recall just at the moment which one it is that I've heard the name of, but there are some that can survive prolonged hard boiling and other typical means of sterilization, like bleaching, even live steam. Some of these types of critters live in our hospitals more or less all the time nowadays.. which is not to say you have some superbug, but maybe one that's difficult to kill and one that some fish are much more susceptible to. So perhaps a new substrate, toss the filter media, thoroughly sterilize the filter and start this tank over again, cycling from scratch using media from one of your other tanks to speed it up. Maybe reseal the tank, again on the theory that spores or something like may be hiding in the least crack or cranny. 

Or maybe just sell this tank and buy another one and start over that way. I'd be tempted to go that route, rather than do all that work. It's a common size to find on offer used.

More than 35 years ago, I got out of fish for two reasons. One, I was going to college and had little time, Mom was not keen on feeding my fish and turtles. Second, a infestation of FW leeches I simply could not beat. I tore down my 30 G tank 3 times.. boiled and bleached every single thing other than livestock, dumped the plants, such as they were and the only pieces of permanent decor were a huge chunk of cullet glass, and two pieces of petrified wood,which I scrubbed,boiled and bleached as well. No driftwood. Each time the leeches returned. They would stand tails down in the gravel and wave in the water, like little brown ribbons, dozens and dozens and dozens of them. Didn't actually harm any fish, just looked hideous and made me want to toss my lunch every time I saw them. No, they weren't planaria. I had them identified by a guy I went to school with who specialized in that kind of thing in his spare time. 

I guess they had eggs able to survive my best efforts at sterilizing. So I rehomed all the fish, tossed the gravel and the Amazon swords. Eventually sold the tank after I got tired of lugging it around every time I moved. I can sympathize with the frustration factor this problem must be causing you.


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## loachman (Jan 21, 2012)

not sure if it would be an oxygen issue as usually fish would go to the top and try to get oxygen that way, didn't see any fish doing that, but may put in airstone. Before I tear down again, I am going to clean out the filters, sterize everything there and start over with them, do a big water change and see if that works. If not will tear down boil and bleach everything and try that again. Already disconnected 2213 and will do the same later with aq 70. Will update that once I reconnect them and test with a few fish. I'll figure it out but suggestions are helpful and that's why I posted it here, thanks for all everyones thoughts and suggestions.


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## Mlevi (Jan 28, 2012)

How did the rebuild turn out? Did u find out what the issue was? This one's perplexing, and I'm anxious to find out how it turned out...


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## fishfanatic (Oct 11, 2009)

Was this tank re sealed? If so who did it and what type of silicone was used? Maybe something leaching from the silicone

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2


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## loachman (Jan 21, 2012)

tore down and cleaned and boiled all media for both filters and reinstalled them. Got busy doing something else so haven't tested with any fish yet. Going to get some small loaches as don't want to put my bigger ones in there. Hopefully there are still some around. did 50% water change also. Did not tear the whole tank down again. If this next test doesn't do it then I may have to. 

Tank looked pretty new condition when I bought it and was from a guy who had fish in it prior. So didn't look like it had been resealed. Hope it is not that as wouldn't want to do a resilicone job on it.

Crossing my fingers that the filter sanitization does the trick. Getting loaches tomorrow.


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## Mlevi (Jan 28, 2012)

loachman said:


> t
> 
> Crossing my fingers that the filter sanitization does the trick. Getting loaches tomorrow.


Best o' luck!
Keep the forum posted, as would love to find the solution to this one...


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## loachman (Jan 21, 2012)

didn't get a chance to get any loaches but decided to put in a small busynose pleco I had grown from eggs and was about 1.5" and doing well in another tank. Sure enough after a day he is dead. No idea what the issue is now that I have tried everything. Must be related to the goldfish in there from the past. Now looks like I will need to tear it down again and use bleach this time. Boil the rocks and filter media and start from scratch. Hopefully that will do it, if not, not sure what to do after that. Very frustrating.


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## J_T (Mar 25, 2011)

Toss the tank. All you are doing now is killing animals. I'd get rid of the substrate too. By now, it has likely sucked up whatever. Clean the equipment, and start over.

Posted with my Xperia, using Tapatalk 2


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## loachman (Jan 21, 2012)

so before I tore the whole tank down, thought I would try a salt bath, which I didn't think of as they are cichlids, but since I am on well water, which is quite hard, PH should still be quite high. So put in alot of aq salt and let it go through the filter system for a good 3-4 days. Then I put one clown loach in. He was fine even after 2 days which in the past they would die after a day. Then added another clown for company. He also is fine. Added 2 plecos, one baby and one full grown adult. They are both fine. So thought I had resolved the issue, so now a week later decided to put my group of tropheus in there as that was the tank I had for them. they were doing very well and growing in much smaller 35 gallon. Put them in and they were all swimming together and following each other. First day they wouldn't eat, but that's not abnormal, 2nd day, one or two ate, some took the flakes in but spit them out. This is the same veggie flake I had been feeding them for months. 3rd day now still no eating, but swimming well. After 2nd day did a water change. clowns and plecos eating well. So hope the trophs start eating, if they don't then will have to remove everything and start again. Boy this is frustrating. Thinking of dosing with metro, but not sure if that would be the solution, any thoughts?


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## xr8dride (Feb 24, 2009)

I've noticed just lookin at the posts that you are only allowing approx two weeks between tear downs and reintroducing fish each time, that's hardly enough to even begin the cycling period. There are many ways to cycle the tank without killing all these fish, you may want to look into it. 
May I also suggest that after washing with the bleach you refill with water a couple times and let sit for a day, dispose of water and refill again, the do it one more time...there could be residues in the tank after cleanings that are knocking off your fish.


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## loachman (Jan 21, 2012)

you're right I did neglect to mention when I cleaned and sterilized everything and started again I used Stability which works quite well and allows you to put fish in without full cycle. Used it many times before as well know others and worked well. In terms of bleach never did use it on the tank, only used baking powder but will use the bleach if they don't start to eat soon. Still perplexing that the clowns and plecos are doing great and eating yet the Tropheus, which looking good and swimming well and chasing each other are not really eating. all my other tanks 10+ are doing well and no issues and have other tropheus groups that are doing very well.


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## loachman (Jan 21, 2012)

update, even though I sterilized the cannister, I still decided to turn it off and will clean it and leave it dormant for awhile to kill whatever might be in there if there is anything. Dosed the tank with some metro and now the trophs are eating! Clowns and plecos still good and eating, so all looks good now, knock on wood. So looks like the salt bath killed whatever was in there and so the clowns and plecos were now ok. Otherwise still unsure as to what was the issue in the first place. Thanks for everyone's input and suggestions.


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## Mlevi (Jan 28, 2012)

Good luck!
Keep us posted. I hate mysteries, but love happy endings 


Al.


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