# ALN's Saltwater Story! 37G



## aln

*FTS ATM *​









well to start off! I'm Allan  could call me al. I've been on the forum for awhile now jumping around posting here and there and doing my research. I'm planning to start my own Saltwater tank (SW) finally got enough money for it  the 37 Gallon is 20x18x24 
I have read through many threads about saltwater on this forum already that pushed me over the edge from fresh to salt . 
This is my plan atm! feel free to comment and give me your experience and expert advice! it'll help me out a lot since I'm still new and is VERYY willing to learn from the people here at GTA Aquaria 

Green =New stuff added
Blue = Have atm 

I still need to check compatibility for these fish but I know there all good for my size tank. and to double check to see if I have the equipment right.

*Equipment: *
-DIY sump about the same size of the tank  I'll have pictures up soon for that need to scan them in. 
- I'm planning on a ATI Sunpower 4x24" 24watt fixture probably with this light combo
2 ATI Blue+
1 ATI Aquablue (special)
1 KZ Fiji Purple
- A Octopus extreme protein skimmer oct-ext-160 to take out the extra and extra clear water 
(also thinking about the coral life super skimmer for up to 125gallons, <-- what do you guys think? if not the I'll stick with the Octo)
- and of course a MP20!  
-For return pump. I went to big Als scar, and they said i should get the 700GPH one. since its around 3' from the sump to the tank.

-For heater, (any experience with the following? and which one would you recommend)
-marineland 150w heater
-hydor theoheater 150w
-fluval e150
-Rena smartheater 150w

-not sure about ATO. maybe JBJ's ATO when I get some money. but probably a DIY one
-RO/DI filter, yah...when I get money =( probably buy Ro water at big als for now)
- Refractometers <-- any recommendations? vertex? jbj?

*CUC: (need a bit of help here)*
-for sure cleaner shrimps  love those little guys
-snails ( not sure what kind..<--this is where i need the help )
-emerald crab 
- hermits (blue band or red)
-pom pom crab! (I know it's not a part of cuc)
-also want some arco crabs! (after seeing the ones ameekplec had)

*Livestock:*
- Blue Neon Goby (maybe)
- Green Banded Goby (gf really wants one)
- False Percula
-sixline Wrasse
-firefish goby (for sure!)
- Yasha Hasha Goby with shrimp combo (or banded goby)
- Pearly (Yellowhead) Jawfish (really want one, soo cool  )
- Bangaii Cardinalfish (maybe)
-royal gramma (gf fish lol)
-yellow clown goby!
*Coral: and for coral!!*
- Branch Arco for sure! and any other kind 
-encrusting sps
-toad stool
-zoanthids
- frogspawn (maybe)
-sun coral
-GSP
-feather dusters <-- I know not a coral 
-Undata <-- MMmm*
-warcoral, superman etcc
-still on the search for more! 
-Monti caps 

picture asap. school is pretty crazy when in its last month


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## ameekplec.

Sounds like a good plan so far 

Stick with the Octo ove the coralife superpooper.

For the return pump, match the flow you'll get out of it to your skimmer pump's draw rate.


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## derekc85

definitely Octopus over coralife. I have a recirculating model and pulls out 1" wet every day. pm me to discuss.

light is great.. good choice =)

ATO, just DIY it, there is a website on the web, make sure you use the design that is fail safe, two float switches with a NC (normally closed) solenoid preferably on a timer. Or if you are lazy you can get one on BRS for $100.

not sure about gobies, but same species tend to fight, especially if you are putting 2 or more. But shirmp gobies are really interesting to watch.

what are you running for flow? a MP10 would be very nice addition.


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## aln

i'm going to be running a MP20. as for the return i'll have to see how much the skimmer puts back out.


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## derekc85

Oh, you are plumbing the overflow into the inlet of the skimmer?

I remember i had to email the guy from china to send me some specs... because i couldnt find any flow rates for my model on their site...


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## Cypher

About your protein skimmer... an over sized skimmer may literally be over kill as I have heard from others that it'll not only take out the bad stuff but may as well take out alot of the additives you put into your tank - there by denying your corals, etc... of much needed nutrients as well.

I'm a noob like yourself so don't take my word on it. It's something I heard from other reefers in passing... check with others with more experience on what they think.


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## aln

Cypher said:


> About your protein skimmer... an over sized skimmer may literally be over kill as I have heard from others that it'll not only take out the bad stuff but may as well take out alot of the additives you put into your tank - there by denying your corals, etc... of much needed nutrients as well.
> 
> I'm a noob like yourself so don't take my word on it. It's something I heard from other reefers in passing... check with others with more experience on what they think.


hmm i read in books about it too but it should be fine i think cause i seen tanks with skimming for up to 100g on nanos.

anyone wanna add to this? since i dont want my tank to go downhills 
i'm planning on a Octopus Extreme 160 Protein Skimmer, like stated above


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## aln

derekc85 said:


> Oh, you are plumbing the overflow into the inlet of the skimmer?
> 
> I remember i had to email the guy from china to send me some specs... because i couldnt find any flow rates for my model on their site...


no i'm putting the skimmer in my sump, do i still need to match the output of the skimmer to my return pump if it is?


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## teemee

*aln's tank*

Hi Alan,
Am excited about your tank - I have a 30" 37 gallon, too, and am just getting started. You're a few steps ahead of me, so look forward to seeing how everything progresses!


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## aln

haha i'm not that far myself just trying to get everything organized so i dont miss anything


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## explor3r

Hi Al i dont know as much as some other members but for what i had experinced in my tank i have a nice crew that keeps my tank clean ...(20long) 6 red legs hermit crabs, 7 turbo snails i belive, 1 cleaner shrimp, 1 blue and pink goby(he is great with a nice personallity, makes a good pair with the shrimp since he allow the him to clean him) and 2 clown fish....
Sometimes what works for u might not work for others...good luck with your tank!!!!


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## wtac

Personally I'd overskim vs underskim as it's easier to "dirty-up" a system than clean it. As you get more experience and see the tell tale signs of various "deficiencies". In a nutshell, it's easier to "add than to subtract".


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## aln

explor3r said:


> Hi Al i dont know as much as some other members but for what i had experinced in my tank i have a nice crew that keeps my tank clean ...(20long) 6 red legs hermit crabs, 7 turbo snails i belive, 1 cleaner shrimp, 1 blue and pink goby(he is great with a nice personallity, makes a good pair with the shrimp since he allow the him to clean him) and 2 clown fish....
> Sometimes what works for u might not work for others...good luck with your tank!!!!


oo thank  i was thinking about turbos and i know they do crazzyyy cleaning  i'll take note of your list


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## aln

anyone know any placing in Toronto that does custom Sumps? (glass or arcylic) i want to compare some price to see if it'll be really that much cheaper to just build my own. cuz a sheet of plexiglass is a good $90 already


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## derekc85

i know lucky at market village does it... Mine was done by dragon king (bill) quality was ok, but expensive =(. if you dont care about dimensions, just get a glass tank and silicon in some baffles.


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## teemee

*sump*

Hi Alan,
Found a pre-fab sump at TB aquatics - was just looking at their other stuff... but don't forget, i know nothing about this stuff!

Eshopps 18x10x16 Reef Sump for up to 75g
Retail Price: $149.95

http://www.tbaquatics.com/shop/eshopps-18x10x16-reef-sump-for-up-to-75g-479.html


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## conix67

I would add a controller/monitor device such as Reef Keeper Lite (yes I'm a big fan of it). It doubles as a very flexible timer for your lights and others, I use the standby feature when feeding the tank (turn off return pump and skimmer), and most importantly - an accurate 2 stage temperature controller.

Also, someone here built a custom sump out of acrylics successfully. If you're confident about DIY, go for it. Just have the acrylic plates cut by professionals with proper tools.


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## aln

cool!  my dad is a carpentor and i been working this that field for awhile now too so i think i can make it but i just need to get it cut, cause i dont wanna use a table saw for it after thinking about it..i would get some pretty rough edges. Anyone know where i can get these cut to dimensions? and also where can i buy a large container of aquarium safe silicon (like the normal tubes) i found some small tubes and i'm sure i wont have enough to make a sump out of it.


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## conix67

aln said:


> cool!  my dad is a carpentor and i been working this that field for awhile now too so i think i can make it but i just need to get it cut, cause i dont wanna use a table saw for it after thinking about it..i would get some pretty rough edges. Anyone know where i can get these cut to dimensions? and also where can i buy a large container of aquarium safe silicon (like the normal tubes) i found some small tubes and i'm sure i wont have enough to make a sump out of it.


You can't use silicone on plexi glass.


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## aln

conix67 said:


> You can't use silicone on plexi glass.


hm...what do i use then thats aquarium safe?


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## aln

Big Ray said:


> Ive seen BA carrying Silicone, I needed small amounts so didnt care for the price really.
> 
> the fairest place for sump Id say golden aquariums in markham. Johny is the owner, he makes alot of sumps and aquariums daily (I work close by so I see him working on it ) if you speak to him, I think he would cut it for you, or even help you put it together  lol


i'll give him a visit


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## ameekplec.

You use a product called Weld-on - it melts the acrylic pieces together.


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## aln

stupid me...i even have some with me from school project
never crossed my mine


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## conix67

you might find this thread helpful. Findingnemo made the sump, and I think he got the plexi glass cut to specification at plasticworld

http://www.gtaaquaria.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4113


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## mr_brixs

conix67 said:


> You can't use silicone on plexi glass.


does this mean i cant use plexi as a divider for my sump that im going to build??


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## aln

no, you could if your using pix on glass.
my sump is pix on pix thats y i need wel-on


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## mr_brixs

*** sigh*** good thing... making my little sump tommorow night...


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## aln

mr_brixs said:


> *** sigh*** good thing... making my little sump tommorow night...


good luck!  i'm also buying my acrylic panels this weekend if i can =(


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## conix67

Yeah, you can use the plexi panel as baffles and so on in a glass tank, that's what I do, and use silicone to secure it (easiest). You just need to use liberal amount as the silicone does not really bond well to the plexi glass panel.

Alan on the other hand is trying to build the sump tank out of all plexi panels, and those must be welded together.


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## aln

yep  thanks for the advice again 
i'll be ordering my ATI sunpower this weekend  4x24" 24watt<-- enough with that combo? for my coral?
anyone know where i can get ATI lights and the Fuji light? (check my colour combo on first page)


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## teemee

*lights*



aln said:


> yep  thanks for the advice again
> i'll be ordering my ATI sunpower this weekend  4x24" 24watt<-- enough with that combo? for my coral?
> anyone know where i can get ATI lights and the Fuji light? (check my colour combo on first page)


Hi Alan,
locally i have no idea, but i am getting a fuji light from reef concept (laval - reefconcept.com)
ciao


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## derekc85

i would ask SUM or ORG, they usually carry high end stuff... if they dont they can get it...

talk to ken, i'm sure he can hook you up =)


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## ameekplec.

aln said:


> yep  thanks for the advice again
> i'll be ordering my ATI sunpower this weekend  4x24" 24watt<-- enough with that combo? for my coral?
> anyone know where i can get ATI lights and the Fuji light? (check my colour combo on first page)


yep, should be enough light for just about anything you want to keep 

I just ordered 15 bulbs from GoReef.com (also in Quebec) earlier in the week - I got them to price match ORG's weekend sales price (they had a 10% off sale on bulbs) - the bonus bing that it's free shipping to my door instead of having to go to Oakville and shop at ORG.


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## hojimoe

aln said:


> yep  thanks for the advice again
> i'll be ordering my ATI sunpower this weekend  4x24" 24watt<-- enough with that combo? for my coral?
> anyone know where i can get ATI lights and the Fuji light? (check my colour combo on first page)


Ken at Sea u marine carries the fiji purple bulbs all the time, in 24/39/54 watts.... same with the ATI bulbs always in stock, rarely out of stock, and about a week to get it when it is out usually. He orders them by the box


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## ameekplec.

I thought Ken didn't have ATIs??


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## aln

SeaUmarines had ATI and fuji really?! i'm gunna pay him a visit right now  5 mins drive away


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## ameekplec.

I know Sea U Marine has the KZ bulbs (including the Fiji Purple) and the Giesemann bulbs, but I thought Ken didn't stock ATI bulbs. Or has that changed?

Mind you, I would have bought all my bulbs at Sea U Marine, but Ken doesn't have the UVL or ATIs which I wanted, and NAFB never got back to me about pricing.


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## aln

just o confirm, SeaUmarine doesnt sell ATI 
wish they did tho

- For sump which would be better glass or acrylic?


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## hojimoe

aln said:


> just o confirm, SeaUmarine doesnt sell ATI
> wish they did tho
> 
> - For sump which would be better glass or acrylic?


weird, last summer I bought a few ati specials/blues from him? huh.... maybe a temp thing when he ordered some for himself


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## Flazky

Well from my experience. Not sure if anyone else had this problem but put corals in before your cleaner shrimp. I have had my cleaner shrimp in my tank from the very beginning and they harass my corals and my bta like MAD. When I feed, and even when I dont feed, they dig into my corals and rape my bta for food (literally prying them open). Its not that im starving them either! I tried spot feeding them mysis shrimp and they still bother my corals! I dunno if anyone else had this problem but BEWARE! IT MIGHT HAPPEN!

Also! if you plan on getting snails and hermit crabs, (I learned the hard way) get some extra shells for the hermits because they *WILL* kill your snails for them shells.
Edit: Also to note, I have 2 cleaner shrimp and a fire shrimp THAT ALSO DOES IT!


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## conix67

It won't really make a difference if you put corals before or after cleaner shrimp. They will go after what they like regardless (food), but mostly end up with cleaning action based on my experience. 

Have you seen them clean your fishes? It looks a lot more intrusive but fishes enjoy it.

Definitely you do need extra shells for hermits. Not sure if hermits actually kill snails, never seen them doing that, but snails frequently die when they fall and can't get back up.


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## aln

after building the tank, i just wanna ask.. if 24 normal for a tank seems a bit high  but that should be good for arco growth right? and Mp-20 should be more then enough flow for this high tank ? will have extra flow with return pump


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## ameekplec.

24" is a bit higher than most tanks, but tall tanks look good 

the MP-20 should be all the flow you need.


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## aln

ameekplec. said:


> 24" is a bit higher than most tanks, but tall tanks look good
> 
> the MP-20 should be all the flow you need.


kk  and the light with that combo should reach the bottom without any problem i'm sure


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## aln

just wanna double check if i'm buying the right thing. 
http://www.aquariumspecialty.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=68_122&products_id=2493

dont wanna order it and it comes with something missing


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## conix67

What's your total cost on MP20? Have you considered places like jlaquatics? All you pay on top of $299 is just GST I believe.


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## aln

isnt that only for mp10 and mp40?
mp40 is out of my budget atm, and since i dont need that kind of power
the link for the mp20 is the right one though right?


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## aln

conix67 said:


> What's your total cost on MP20? Have you considered places like jlaquatics? All you pay on top of $299 is just GST I believe.


the total is 295, with free shipping i believe


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## aln

what do you mean change the flow? 
i dont think you can direct it in different direction but it has alot of different modes i read about that makes up for that.


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## aln

yah...its like 400+ =\ lol
since this is my first sw, the thing i learn here is to start off with the best-ish equipment so if anytime happen and i wanna get out of the hobby, i can still sell my stuff and people would still wanna buy it =P
but i'm pretty sure i'm going to be in this hobby for awhile 
want the best for my coral so yah


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## conix67

When I click on this item i see list of options for shipping, and none of it is free.. on top of that, the courier may charge brokerage fee depending on shipping method, and there would be GST/PST added plus duty

Have you managed to order one and paid just $295?


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## aln

conix67 said:


> When I click on this item i see list of options for shipping, and none of it is free.. on top of that, the courier may charge brokerage fee depending on shipping method, and there would be GST/PST added plus duty
> 
> Have you managed to order one and paid just $295?


theres is a free code for you to enter after you pick the shipment type
its like AS-MP5 or something

total is 300 with coupon discound and ground shipping

Big Ray: i seem some of the crazish wave made by these mps tho  let me see if i can get a picture

http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=228238&st=80 <-- pretty cool i think


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## Flazky

hmm honestly I think you should just try to get a used mp20 if you are really looking for a good deal. If you buy new, get an eco smart. Its just not worthing buying a "new" product that is "old" and paying 300 bucks for.


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## aln

how big is your tank ray?


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## conix67

aln said:


> theres is a free code for you to enter after you pick the shipment type
> its like AS-MP5 or something
> 
> total is 300 with coupon discound and ground shipping
> 
> Big Ray: i seem some of the crazish wave made by these mps tho  let me see if i can get a picture
> 
> http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=228238&st=80 <-- pretty cool i think


I can't get to the page where you can enter the free code. I seriously doubt they offer free shipping to Canada, and anything that are declared at customs will be subject to taxes and duties.

It's be exciting to see a US online store shipping free to Canada... have you actually ordered one yet? let me know once you do, and let us know the final cost.


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## aln

conix67 said:


> I can't get to the page where you can enter the free code. I seriously doubt they offer free shipping to Canada, and anything that are declared at customs will be subject to taxes and duties.
> 
> It's be exciting to see a US online store shipping free to Canada... have you actually ordered one yet? let me know once you do, and let us know the final cost.


yah, i went through all the process and i just needed to press confirm and yah its 300  
ameekplec ordered from this site too, he recommanded it to me  you can ask how much he got it for. it should be around the same. 
i'm also getting my ATi sunpower from them


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## ameekplec.

I don't think you get free shipping from them to Canada - it's only in the CONUS (continental US).


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## aln

how much did you get yours for ameekplec>?


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## aln

well i guess the coupon doesn make it free shipping but my total is still 300$ with ground shipping. well from what i see =\
with jlaquatics its 316


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## ameekplec.

aln said:


> how much did you get yours for ameekplec>?


I didn't get mine from here  I got mine in a GB from a place in Californai a while ago.



aln said:


> well i guess the coupon doesn make it free shipping but my total is still 300$ with ground shipping. well from what i see =\
> with jlaquatics its 316


That's the price if you don't get dinged for duties at the border - then expect to pay taxes and a handling fee, which can make the price higher than that from a Canadian retailer.


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## aln

did you get your ATI on AS then?


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## conix67

I think ameek has sifigoli(?) light from a local source.

By the way, when ordering *anything* from US, make sure you get the total cost up front, before you compare. If anything, buying locally is the best, especially considering services you may require after purchase (warranty, exchange, etc). The second best is using a reputable canadian source to avoid any hassles going across the border.


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## ameekplec.

aln said:


> did you get your ATI on AS then?





conix67 said:


> I think ameek has sifigoli(?) light from a local source.


A friend of mine got the ATI Powermodule from them - shipped DHL express, so he knew exactly what he'd pay in shipping and duties + any brokerage fees.

And right you are Conix, I have a Sfiligoi 8x39w Stealth from the master distributor for North America, who just happens to be in Markham.

And +a million to the local comparison, and local support/service/warranty. Especially for something like a light or an expensive powerhead, I'd like to have the support on hand, instead of having to ship it back and fourth over the border for warranty issues and support.


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## aln

conix67 said:


> I think ameek has sifigoli(?) light from a local source.
> 
> By the way, when ordering *anything* from US, make sure you get the total cost up front, before you compare. If anything, buying locally is the best, especially considering services you may require after purchase (warranty, exchange, etc). The second best is using a reputable canadian source to avoid any hassles going across the border.


thanks yuri  i'll see if i can find any canadian sites that sells ATI fixtures
any sources you'll recommand?


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## conix67

Unfortunately I do not have any information on good Canadian sources for an ATI lighting fixture. All I know is that Tabatha got hers from the retailer in Ottawa (Ottawa Inverts?), and the person there comes to Toronto time to time, so hand delivery is possible, if you are specifically looking for an ATI fixture. 

Maybe you can convince Ken to carry them, but I believe he's carrying that other brand now (sfiligoi).


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## aln

Lol I check o.inverts they don't seem to have them on there site anymore if online Ken would carry ati I would by everything at his store. Maybe I'll just buy it from the states then and pay a bit extra
I'm probably gunna use the place you send me to get my mp20 for 316 since if anything happens I can also ship it back and it'll be quicker or is there any locals that sell mps?


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## conix67

blakeslivingreef also carries ATI light fixtures. Not sure if prices are inline with those in US.

http://www.blakeslivingreef.ca/cart.php?target=category&category_id=277


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## aln

i'm probably going to go with goreef.com as they have the cheapest price in Canada atm. I called ORG and they said 420 which is a bit much for me.

WELLL i got some pictures not much. 
This is where i'm planning to put the tank 
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb244/aL-n/IMG_0388.jpg
just got the tank back to get the rims on the tank for more support
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb244/aL-n/IMG_0389.jpg
as you can see i'm really bad with silicon, so there is a thick layer of that  but its at the bottom so its okay.
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb244/aL-n/IMG_0390.jpg

never really knew how big this tank is until now 
sorry the thread is picture slow  will be fast after school is done.

Current projects right now is Sump and Tank stand!


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## teemee

*your lights*



aln said:


> i'm probably going to go with goreef.com as they have the cheapest price in Canada atm. I called ORG and they said 420 which is a bit much for me.
> 
> WELLL i got some pictures not much.
> This is where i'm planning to put the tank
> http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb244/aL-n/IMG_0388.jpg
> just got the tank back to get the rims on the tank for more support
> http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb244/aL-n/IMG_0389.jpg
> as you can see i'm really bad with silicon, so there is a thick layer of that  but its at the bottom so its okay.
> http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb244/aL-n/IMG_0390.jpg
> 
> never really knew how big this tank is until now
> sorry the thread is picture slow  will be fast after school is done.
> 
> Current projects right now is Sump and Tank stand!


weren't they like 700??
are you going for the 4 bulb?
its definitely sexier the the aquatic life i'm going to get, but really do not want to hang anything from my ceiling, and could never figure out how to make my own feet for it. don't know why they won't just make them... there seems to be a lot of people who would want them!


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## aln

i'm getting the 4x24" ones which is the cheapest one, since i dont have a big tank so its good enough for me 
feet or hanged both work for me  so that does bother me so much either


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## aln

i so want a yellow clown goby!


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## aln

Here is my sump design. i dunno if it'll work but it should =\
18x18x18 sump, using 1/4 arcylic
skimmer footprint = 8x10
used program called : Autodesk Inventor

Plan








3D side View








Top & Left Side(measurements)








Tell me if there is any problem or for better performance issue


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## aln

After getting some tips and hints from other member on other forums i decided to change it to this design

i have 6G of Fuge
and 5G for return (hopefully thats enough of water so my ATO doesnt over run the ATO pump) hope the water will last for about 3-4 days until it needs to be topped off
14" high water

TOP








Details


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## aln

heres my updated sump 








i'll be getting quote for this, wont have time to build during exams


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## derekc85

check your skimmer footprint, my octopus is huge... taking most of the space in my sump... try to include all piping valves etc...


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## aln

the footprint of my oct-160 is 8x10


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## aln

good new everyone!  i just recieved my mp20! i'll be testing it in a day or two  wish me luck!










for goodies on the way!


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## aln

here my next shippment!








mm reflectors 








blue+, KZ fiji purple, blue special, blue+









how do i rescale these images? and skimmer coming !


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## ameekplec.

Who are you having build your sump?


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## aln

ameekplec. said:


> Who are you having build your sump?


i'm getting it build my a guy called johnny. hes doing it in glass for me 
on hwy 7 and leslie, gold Ocean Aquariums
still waiting for a final quote atm


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## aln

yah he is a great guy. just need to get my sump and work the overflow and return and live rock time!


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## aln

just got my skimmer today! i didnt end up in getting the oct 160 extreme 
but i got a 110 octo reef pinwheel skimmer instead 

pics asap


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## simsimma

subscribed to your thread bud!

haha i wanna see the progress then i shall just follow ur footsteps into saltwaters real soon


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