# Alternatives to RO\DI unit?



## little_clown

Just got started on this hobby, planning to move from my small tank to a bigger one.

Question, I'm placing the tank in my bedroom where the washroom is actually 3 rooms away. A RO\DI unit doesn't seem to be possible for me.

If that's the case, what's my other alternatives?


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## 50seven

Not sure what the problem is...

Not sure if you mean you need a bigger unit or you need more pails...

You shouldn't run your RO filter directly into your ATO if that's what you mean.

http://gtaaquaria.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19392


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## little_clown

I don't have any RO\DI unit right now.

I'm just running a very small tank but planning to get a bigger one.

But I don't think I can setup the new tank with Ro\DI unit because my bathroom is 3 rooms away from my bedroom. 

I'm wondering if anyone knows any alternatives to RO\DI unit.


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## carmenh

You can attach the ro/di to the bathroom faucet and fill a bucket in the bathroom, then move the water to your bedroom. Or you can buy the water at a store but that'll mean hauling it from more than 3 rooms away 
The filter isn't plumbed into your tank, it's a completely separate unit...


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## little_clown

This is what make me confused. 

I know it is good to get RO\DI unit for my tank. A lot of people made some constructions so they can have the RO\DI unit connected and mounted in their bathroom and how the water is transferred to the tank is a "?" for me now.


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## carmenh

You don't need to over complicate it right now, save that for later, when you really get into it  
I have a really low tech set up myself. I have the filter plumbed in my kitchen (so we can use it for drinking water as well) and I fill a bucket to move water to my salt water mixing tub (a 20g brute garbage can). If you don't want it permanently plumbed, I believe most units come with fittings that you can simply screw onto your faucet when you need water. Then take it off, put away, and haul your water back to your room...


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## little_clown

I'm thinking to move over to maybe a 20G tank and take as much time as possible to set it up so everything is done right.

I was told that a RO\DI is almost a must for good water for the tank. I totally agree, but I'm a bit confused about the setup of this unit. I was having a false thought that I need this unit connected to the tank. So it's not eh?

So the RO\DI unit is to provide good water for water change only?

Sorry for asking stupid questions


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## carmenh

Doesn't need to be connected to the tank at all, just needs to provide water for changes (salt mix added) and top ups (no salt). As far as getting the water from the tap, through the filter, and into your tank and mixing container, it's all a matter of personal preference and individual set-up...
IMHO yes, using ro/di water will give you a big advantage over using treated tap water...
Your questions are not stupid at all, the subject baffled me, too, when I started looking into it  And I have an oddball set-up now, so I'm still not 100% aware of how other people do it.
Everyone's a beginner at first


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## little_clown

Thanks so much for your great info!! 

Do you know approx. how long it takes to setup a 20G tank?

I don't think I will be getting everything ready until x'mas time because of the research part... 

However I've booked my trip to be away for 3 weeks in Feb, so I can leave the tank cycling itself for that 3 weeks, right?

I can have someone in the house to check on it everyday but I can't rely on them to do anything like water changing or anything complicated though...


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## carmenh

I would do just that. Get your live rock in there with heater and whatever other hardware you plan on using, and let it cycle. No livestock until you return. Get a good test kit so you know what's going on, and when you get back, hopefully you're ready to start stocking...No livestock until then...
Do you know what you want to keep yet?


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## little_clown

Thanks thanks! 

I'm soo happy and can't wait to see it happens!!!

The current tank that I'm having is totally a big mistake. I was too naive to think it is easy to start off with saltwater tank. Visited a couple of LFS and was told a tank as little as 3G is okay so I got a 5G tank with a slim filter and 2 clowns, 2 dead rock (i think they are cycled by now as I see some brownish stuff going on the rock and it keeps changing from time to time) and 1.5 inch of sand bed. 

PH - 8.2-8.4
Amonia - 0 (before and after water change)
Nitrite - 0 (before and after water change)
Nitrate - 15-20 before water change // 5-10 after water change.
Temp - 26 C 

It is such a small tank so I'm doing water change once every 2 days depends on the water condition, but for sure not over 4 days.

I'm not looking for a HUGE tank, because I'm placing it in my bedroom, so a small one between 10g-20g is what I'm aiming for. 
For livestock, I want to keep clowns and a cleaning shrimp if that's possible and some small corals.
Is this size of tank good to keep all these?

Any suggestion in terms of tank selection, filter, skimmer, RO\DI unit..etc?


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## littletnklvr

For 2 clowns,1 shrimp and corals the best tank would be a 20gal long. Some good lights for the coral like T5HO. I don't use a filter or skimmer on my 15gal, just weekly water changes, you really don't need a skimmer on such a small tank and the live rock is the biological filter.


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## shiver905

Research Friend,

It will help out alot,
These questions will all be answered in a few clicks and a few keystrokes.


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## ozi

if all you want if 2 clowns and a cleaner shrimp, plus some easy corals down the road, i think you could forget about the RO/DI unit. they cost around $200 for the smaller versions. and for what you want, you don't need that 99.99% pure water...tap water will be fine enough.


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## shiver905

Dont use tap water,

At the very least use RO water. You can fill them at your local wtaer supply store.


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## rrobbiiee

When I first started I would make my water with a Brita filter! It worked in the beginning but it took forever to make enough water for a 20 litre water change.

Eventually once I realized a lot of my algae issues were due to high levels of phosphate in the water I sprung for an RO/DI. I highly recommend these guys as compared to what you'll find locally their stuff is a steal. I even got a free pressure tank! To give you an idea of price comparisons, their kit is around $240 for a 7-stage 100 gpd system as well as enough replacement filters to last you a few years, the comparable system at the big box LFS is $280 for a 4 stage system with no additional filters.

Here is how I have it setup, you'll notice I didn't have to plumb anything and the whole setup is completely reversible and can be brought offline, which sounds like it might be good for you so you can attach it when you need it:









That is the guts all tucked away underneath the sink, when I picked up the system it also came with a 3 gallon pressurized cylinder which is amazing since that is just a shade less then my bi-weekly water changes so I can fill the bucket up in a few minutes. Don't be fooled by 100 gallons per day, it is still just a trickle .

Here is how it's connected:









You'll see the input attached to the faucet with a screw on adapter so I didn't need to tap the water line, also the permeate output (held by the red clamp on the RHS of the sink) has a ball valve attached to it (not shown) for easy on/off operation. Also if look to the left there is a white water line disappearing underneath a towel, that is the concentrate output which is just shoved down the laundry drain.

I agree with the other replies that you should just get the tank cycled and good to go before really *needing* a system like this, but definitely budget for it in the near future because you will always have an algae problem without one!

Rob


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## little_clown

any ideas where in GTA i can get good RO\DI unit at good price? It is just for handling a 10-20G tank.


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## ozi

I've been using Toronto tap water for making my saltwater and for refills due to evaporation for the past year and a half and look at my 20G nano reef:








Can you say my corals don't look nice enough?!? or the fish are sickly?!? or where is that nasty algae caused by tap water nutrients that everybody keeps talking about?!? well definitely not in my tank.
sure, the corals would definitely look better if i was using RO/DI water, but if everything is fine without, then i'd much rather spend that 200 bucks on something else for now 
if you want something with more demanding SPS corals, like this:








then you NEED to get the RO/DI unit.


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## Kweli

My RO/DI unit attaches to my sink (any sink will do) and i fill 5 gallon buckets with it. 

I then use the buckets for the tank..

You dont need the RO/DI in the same room as the tank as long as you invest in buckets (5 dollars at home hardware, or get the water jugs at big als)


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## Kweli

I purchased mine from bulkreefsupply.com

id just wait for the holiday specials or a group buy


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## ameekplec.

Or a certain special announcement related to a certain nano-tank contest and said contest prize donor (*cough* BWIplumbing.com *cough*) 

For a 20g tank (and perhaps even bigger), it's sufficient to just fill pails in your bath tub (in case you overfill and it overflows - which EVERYONE has done) and then lug it over to your tank to make water for water changes or refill your automatic top-off reservoir. I did this for almost 2 years on my ~30g reef system, and it'll probably be the very un-elegant system I'll have to use in my 120g system since I live in a condo and can't have the RO/DI plumbed in.

I connect mine to the showerhead pipe, and disconnect when I'm not using it and store it away under the sink. I make water once every two or three weeks, and then make up a whole bunch at once.


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## Big Ray

little water aint that bad  

I have mine plumbed under the kitchen sink, T off of the cold water.

I used to have it connected to a 5G bucket, with a float valve and ATO pump inside the bucket. 

worked fine for a while.
but then I decided to take it offline and just fill up the bucket at night ... 

I have also installed a timer on the RO/DI, so everytime I turn it on, it works for half an hour only. and I will have to reset it again after half an hour, so in case I forget, it will only fill up about 70% of the 5G bucket ...

its nice cuase I also have a 50G brute which I use for water changes, place that beside the tank, fill it up and make water, do the water change and put the brute back on the balcony ... lol

not too bad....


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## Kweli

Do you guys store your RO/DI in a airtight container?


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## Big Ray

Kweli said:


> Do you guys store your RO/DI in a airtight container?


doesnt need to be air tight, but its good to have a lid so nothing can spill in there or dirt from air wont get in. ...


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## Kweli

Was always worried about my RO/DI going through evaporation

Last thing i need is a 2nd Auto Top off for my spare RO/DI water


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## Big Ray

Kweli said:


> Was always worried about my RO/DI going through evaporation
> 
> Last thing i need is a 2nd Auto Top off for my spare RO/DI water


hahah lol

I see what you mean now, cant really comment, but it will be at room temp so will have less evaporation.


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## Chris S

ozi said:


> I've been using Toronto tap water for making my saltwater and for refills due to evaporation for the past year and a half and look at my


Agreed, tap water is fine. I would just concentrate on getting your tank setup and just use tap water for mixing your water changes. If/when you decide to try some harder stuff, or a larger tank, then look into an RO unit. It isn't something that is hard to add later.


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## Big Ray

a simple TDS meter would show difference in tap water and RO/DI water ....


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## Kweli

Chris S said:


> Agreed, tap water is fine. I would just concentrate on getting your tank setup and just use tap water for mixing your water changes. If/when you decide to try some harder stuff, or a larger tank, then look into an RO unit. It isn't something that is hard to add later.


Just note... This isnt the typical recommendation from most people. While there are people that havent had issues following your methods, there are others with constant algae issues


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## ozi

Kweli said:


> Just note... This isnt the typical recommendation from most people. While there are people that havent had issues following your methods, there are others with constant algae issues


Hmmmm...doesn't this mean that the correlation between tap water and algae is kinda fuzzy...and the algae are maybe caused by other common fish-keeping mistakes like overfeeding, overstocking, not cleaning filters enough, not enough flow, etc.

PS: don't buy a RO/DI unit, and then have to cheap out your way with the rest of the necessary equipment. you will regret it later.
its better to first get all your required equipment (good light, filtration, skimmer, powerheads) and then if you're still rolling in $$$ grab that RO/DI unit.


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## Chris S

Kweli said:


> Just note... This isnt the typical recommendation from most people. While there are people that havent had issues following your methods, there are others with constant algae issues


I would argue that most people are quick to blame tap water for increased phosphates, algae and other common aquarium problems whereas a lot of these problems are likely due to infrequent water changes or other typical problems.


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## little_clown

Thanks folks!!

Dropped by Big Al's yesterday, saw a 20G tank with starter kit. It comes with Tetra Whisper Ex 20 filter, I'm wondering if this is good enough for setting up my 20G tank, if it is useful for my tank, then i'll go for the starter kit which is $79.99 + tax but if it's not, I'll just get a tank for approx. $30 + tax then all other equipments seperately.

I've asked the store and they said the Tetra Whisper Ex 20 is okay, but everyone say, they are there for business, so..

Any suggestion ?


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## little_clown

I just find out I have a co-worker running a saltwater tank for sometime =)

He told me he has been using tap water from day 1 and have no issue as long as he has the "Prime" to purified the water and leave it on a cheap filter for 3 days prior water change, the water should be good. We've talked about tap water with algae problem but he said he didn't have any problem at all, no outbreak or anything. He advised regular tank cleaning is good enough.

what are all the fellows here think about putting Prime to purified the water and leave it aside for 2-3 days vs getting RO\DI unit?

How much diff between the 2 types of water?


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## ozi

I do pretty much the same thing as your friend.
Add PRIME to tap water, in a 5G bucket. Then put an AquaClear with a bag of carbon on the bucket, to stir and clean the water. After half an hour I add the salt (1/2 cup per gallon) and let it sit like that for at least 24h (sometimes 3-4 days if I'm busy).
I can't tell you the difference between this and using a RO/DI, cause I don't have one  but basically PRIME is probably the best water conditioner ( X5 more concentrated than most brands) and the carbon in the filter will remove metal ions and other "crap" in the tap water, so it's a bit more purified, but definitely not pure like RO/DI water.


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## little_clown

cool~
nice to know.

Well, I know it's not the best water but as long as it does no harm to the livestock, it's okay for now i guess?

i'm not saying I won't invest in a RO\DI unit in the future, most likely I will but as a beginner, I am doing everything bit by bit, step by step. 

This is what I'm planning to do then...

1. Get a 20G tank (just the tank itself)
2. Get some liverocks, haven't decide how many of them I'm getting, but I was told from reading and other fellows that 1lb for 1G? so with 20G, i should get 20lbs liverocks? is that true?
3. Still researching on the filter, but we get a good one to support the tank
4. if it is okay to use tap water to start with, I'll be purifying the tap water using PRIME and water condition to remove chlorine and other bad substances and leave the water aside for 3 days at least before pouring them into the new tank. But if I see any RO\DI unit on sale during x'mas, I will definitely get one .. i know it is essential to have one in long term.
5. Sand -- I saw Petsmart or local petshop (including LFS) selling sand in bag and they said it is live sand. Am I getting those kind of sand? I got mine from LFS, they have a big bucket of sand selling and they said those are good and better than bags of sand selling from local petstore.

The list is not done yet, but this is what i've figured out so far....

I need to ensure I'm on the right track this time before moving forward..


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## Kweli

Since you are buying your own tank I would strongly recommend a 20 "LONG" tank, not just your typical 20 gallon tank.

20G (High) 24" x 12" x 16"
20G (Long) 30" x 12" x 12"

It will give you more room for coral placement and sandbed.

Thats just my advice, as I have a 20x20x20 tank and wish it was a long tank instead.

Live rock needs to be kept "alive" which means kept in heated water that has circulation. So do not buy rock until you are able to provide the above. 

I would stick to aragonite sand no matter what you buy (dead or alive).... I have the 'beach' sand and wish i got something a tiny bit bigger, as it blows around very easily.

These are just my own personal opinions and suggestions


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## carmenh

I agree with going with a longer or wider tank as opposed to higher, but I respectfully disagree with a 30" tank being a good option. The lighting choices in that size are too limited. Should the OP ever decide to get into more demanding corals, having a 24" or 36" tank to light will be much easier 



Kweli said:


> Since you are buying your own tank I would strongly recommend a 20 "LONG" tank, not just your typical 20 gallon tank.
> 
> 20G (High) 24" x 12" x 16"
> 20G (Long) 30" x 12" x 12"
> 
> It will give you more room for coral placement and sandbed.


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## Kweli

Good point...

Guess he has to upgrade to a 40Breeder


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## carmenh

LOL, yea 



Kweli said:


> Good point...
> 
> Guess he has to upgrade to a 40Breeder


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## little_clown

Yes...I see the point of getting a wider tank. It has a nice view and better use of space for corals... 

But one thing i realize from my 2 clowns last night. My small one started to hide himself between the rocks, it's not easy to spot him, but he would keep swimming and moving inside the rock, not completely quiet there but I can tell he's very stressful, his black color at the tail are almost gone... =( so sad and I'm thinking if I should take or seperate the big one.... i fed them this morning and the small still eats, but he would hold back if the big one chasing for food, he will back off a bit and wait until he has a chance, then he came out to eat. 

When the big clown is not attacking the small one, he wuold come out and shake it's body next to the big clown. So cute to see but whenever i see the condition on the small poor clown. I feel bad...is there sth I can do to help? I was told the little one was too stressful...but is this kind of stressful be able to fix by medication? or it is a natural process?


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## Kweli

Typically the big one should stop attacking when the small one submits, which is usually the shaking/vibrating, and sometimes it will go into a C shape.

Its odd that your big one keeps attacking... unless it just doesnt want that clown for a specific reason. Are they the same breed/family of clown? (ie, its not a false perc with a maroon clown?)

I dont think ive ever seen my clowns go NEAR the rock, let alone in the rock


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## carmenh

How long have you had the fish? When I got my clowns, the big one was the evil b**ch from hell to the little one for a couple of months. The anemone was HERS, and if he even looked at it, she'd chase him relentlessly! He'd hide behind a rock when he needed to rest, out of her line-of-sight. On many occasions, I almost took him back because I was afraid she'd hurt him. He did even have a couple of marks on his tail from her. Then gradually, she started letting him closer. Now they are always together in the nem and are even showing breeding behaviors. I'm really glad I kept him.
You may find that with some time, and with the space in their new tank, things will settle down...


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## 50seven

Yeah, I got a pair of Tomatos, and sometimes they do weird stuff together and play tag and stuff, but never anything mean. They were paired when I got them though.


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## shiver905

-
Clowns Shake (seizure) to show dominance to the other clown.
Theres repports of Clowns hosting BARE rocks even heaters. 

As for the color change, This could be a problem. When You first suspect a problem check your water phrams. See if its in check.

----

As for TAP water. I would never recomend this to anybody.
First thing ID buy when getting in this hobby is a RODI unit. I know its a chunk of money but quality water is the very base in running a sucessfull SW tank, IMO.

---
Im shure you could make it work, But hands down, The rodi should be the first peice of equipment you should buy.


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## carmenh

Are you sure this is normally correct? My clown experience was like Kweli's...it was the submissive one who was doing the shaking and curling, not the dominant one...



shiver905 said:


> -
> Clowns Shake (seizure) to show dominance to the other clown.


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## shiver905

Sorry 
If I wasnt clear,

They shake to submit.


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