# Did Anyone Experienced this.



## loonie (Mar 29, 2008)

My 100gal tank with fish and some mushrooms has been running for more then 5years. Somehow the fish got ich, cloudy eyes and I lost about 1K worth of fish. I could not catch the fish due to live rocks etc but tried treating with Melafix but did not work. There are a few fish left. What is the opinion of you guys, can it be due to live rock been there for so long and cal. build up
and water quality drop. I only test the water for Ph and salinity since it more a all fish tank. I do auto top up and change RO water, do have a skimmer in sump.


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## Faizan (Mar 17, 2013)

Check out a disease called marine velvet. It might be what you have. Usually with this disease, when symptoms are visible, its already too late.

When was the last time you introduced livestock in your tank?


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## loonie (Mar 29, 2008)

I did not add any livestock for more then a year since the tank is full capacity.


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Anything other than fish? Coral? Rock? Inverts?


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## loonie (Mar 29, 2008)

No its only fish and some hairy mushrooms since some fish will eat the corals and of course live rock.
Five years, no problem till now, its a big disappointment for me. Some of the fish has grown big and you will never find them in LFS, its sad.


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## J_T (Mar 25, 2011)

Wonder if the fish started stressing each other. As they were growing, their needs were changing. All it would take is one fish to succumb to it, and it would pass easily. While you never saw the ich, it doesn't mean it wasn't there. Just that the fish were healthy enough to not be affected by it. 

Sorry for your loses.

Sent from my {HTC X8} using Board Express


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## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

Sorry for your loss.

Unfortunately, it is a misnomer that in FOWLR systems that you only need to test for salinity and pH. It is true for the most part as you don't need to monitor/maintain Ca and Mg levels but NO3 and PO4 if left unchecked will be a problem if they get exceedingly high, >20mg/L and >0.5-1.0mg/L respectively. Long term exposure will eventually take its toll on the fish. I'm curious to know those parameters.

Again, sorry for your loss.


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

J_T said:


> Wonder if the fish started stressing each other. As they were growing, their needs were changing. All it would take is one fish to succumb to it, and it would pass easily. While you never saw the ich, it doesn't mean it wasn't there. Just that the fish were healthy enough to not be affected by it.
> 
> Sorry for your loses.
> 
> Sent from my {HTC X8} using Board Express


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## Faizan (Mar 17, 2013)

If it has been more than a year since you last introduced anything then marine velvet becomes less likely. Although what JT said is true as well. A fish can be a carrier of the disease and as soon as stress levels get high, the immune system of many fish become compromised thus succumbing to the disease. I do not think this is ich.

Test all your params tonight.


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## loonie (Mar 29, 2008)

Thanks everyone, anyway there are few fish left, they seem to be doing fine. I will do some cleaning up and let the system run for two or three months and see how it goes. Hate to start all over again, adding new fish to the system but have no choice and have to do it slowly.


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## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

I'm still curious of NO3 and PO4 levels. Chronic stress from these environmental factors where all it takes is one fish to succumb to an opportunistic pathogen...then it's a domino effect.

From a human perspective, my health. I've been running ragged for the past few years before my son came along...and still running ragged . When we started sending him off to a parenting centre last Sept, I'm fighting something every other week and been bed ridden three times. I'd rather he bring home spiders, doggie poop bags and road kill vs the cold/flu bugs...LMFAO!!!


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## loonie (Mar 29, 2008)

WTAC....sorry I do no have the test kids. Also I did change water, so the readings will not be correct since it is not taken when it happen. I know that some hobbist do send their water to a lab for test but I have not done that.


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## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

One can always estimate by factoring in the approximate volume that you've changed. If you have ~0.5-1lb/gal of liverock and 0.5-1" of substrate, NO3 and PO4 will bounce back near to original value within 24hrs after a 25% water change; NO3 and PO4 will leach/diffuse out from the LR and substrate. This is assuming that protein skimming, water changes and carbon use are the only manner of nutrient export.

A full/formal lab chemical analysis is a waste of $$$ unless you are testing for parameters that the are not available from better test kits. You can still take a water sample to a LFS that offers water testing. Better that you know what's going on with your system and adjust the maintenance regimen so that you don't have to go through this heartache again.

HTH


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## loonie (Mar 29, 2008)

Thanks WTAC.......probably I will ask Ryan R20 to check for me.


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## loonie (Mar 29, 2008)

I was thinking about what happen. Do any of you here feed the SW fish with Romain Lettuce since this is the only item I introduce to the tank once a week. Could there be something in the leaves that cause the problem.I do rinse the leaves before feeding.


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## J_T (Mar 25, 2011)

loonie said:


> I was thinking about what happen. Do any of you here feed the SW fish with Romain Lettuce since this is the only item I introduce to the tank once a week. Could there be something in the leaves that cause the problem.I do rinse the leaves before feeding.


You would be better off feeding Nori. More natural, and more nutrients.

The lettuce goes straight through them. They don't digest much from it. Nori is atleast something they would eat on the reef.

If you didn't wash it, it is possible that there were pesticides still on it.


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## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

One of my clients ties a head of Romaine to a string and tosses it in his 500gal reef...it's a feeding frenzy of tangs and it's gone in 10-15mins. They've been doing this for 10years.

Not to be a bug in your ear...did you get your water tested? LOL!


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## loonie (Mar 29, 2008)

Will do it this week since Ryan was not around last Fri.


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## loonie (Mar 29, 2008)

Hi WTAC......I have done the water test.....its due to high nitrate level. I have to do alot of water change and a good clean up since the tank has been running for almost six years. Thanks for your advice.


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## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

Hey Loonie, at least we have somewhere to start .

Water changes will marginally help depending on how much LR and substrate you have, it's just going to bounce back for awhile as it NO3 will leach out.

I call it "the tea bag effect"; like a cup of tea with bag in, drink some and top up with water. It will take quite a few refills before the tea bag stops leaching the tannins.

I would suggest using NitraGuard in a fluidized reactor and let that deal with the NO3. Believe you me, doing water changes more than twice a week gets tedious fast and becomes frustrating when the NO3 isn't dropping as quickly as you would like.

The cost in time, salt and potential frustration...cheaper and easier to use NitraGuard . Keep with the gravel vac/water change regimen.

An ATS will work phenomenally BUT you have to clean the drip grating of the algal mass when it gets to a certain point. Sure, the algae binds NO3 and PO4 from the water column it but it's still IN the system BOUND in the algal mass. Neglecting the cleaning, the mass will fall off, the algae will die and release what it bound back into the water column.

There are sulphur reactors and denitrator coils.

Some options but it all depends on what method you are comfortable in using.

Fr m here, things can only get better


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## loonie (Mar 29, 2008)

Thanks alot WTAC, we are always learning in this hobby, let it be FW or SW.
I will take sometime to ensure all is fine before I add any fish. Anyway, I will not add anything till end Jul, since I will be away from end April till June, so it will let the system run and will check all is fine. It is an expensive experience but we learn something. Thanks again


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