# Do you think there is a good chance of bringing kids into this hobby?



## Ciddian (Mar 15, 2006)

I see a lot of teens and stuff getting interested in keeping aquariums but I asked a couple of people a while ago if they think there is enough youth interest in keeping fish and the like. The general thinking was it was an adult dominated hobby.

What do you guys think? 

What have you experienced from your point of view?

Do you think some of the changes in keeping fish has made things harder for people to try out then it used to be?

I hope myself that my kiddo is interested in keeping fish. I've tried with my sister and my brother. It didn't last long but I think it had a lot to do with being a busy person at that age. Eg. school, friends, etc etc.

I myself didn't get interested in fish until I was in my teens. 

What age did you really come to appreciate the hobby?


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## AquaNeko (Jul 26, 2009)

What do you guys think? 

I've gotten a mix of adult dominated views and also people who have lots lots of fish without reading up lots of info on how to keep them so they lost interest after many fish have died. I find the teens who can't have furry pets appreciate the fish tanks as it's hypoallogenic (sp).

What have you experienced from your point of view?

I've had friends with fish tanks in their dorm rooms while in post secondary schooling. Mainly because it was the only thing they could think of and allowed in the dorms. Some fell in love with it later while some did not. I find from ym expeirence those that stopped fish keeping or turned away is because they did not have a resource like GTAA or asked an experienced friend how to set it up and have lot a lot of fish/money and just did not like the way they had their items sold to them from many shops thinking everything would work out right away later finding out the items they got arn't that great.

Do you think some of the changes in keeping fish has made things harder for people to try out then it used to be?

What do you mean by the 'changes'?



Ciddian said:


> I see a lot of teens and stuff getting interested in keeping aquariums but I asked a couple of people a while ago if they think there is enough youth interest in keeping fish and the like. The general thinking was it was an adult dominated hobby.
> 
> What do you guys think?
> 
> ...


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## dl88dl (Mar 8, 2010)

At 9 years old when my father setup a 10gal tank and that was when I was interested in the fihsy but back than there were much less distractions and now a days most young teens spend all their time on the laptop surfing the web on anything but GTAA LOL


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## Ciddian (Mar 15, 2006)

Heh thats true dave.. lol

By changes I just mean some people find the ways of keeping fish has gotten much more complex and too challenging, when I don't really think it has. 

More gear out there, filters, lights.. it can seem overwhelming to come I guess.


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## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

I don't think fish are very interesting to kids. Something like a crab, on the other hand, seems universally interesting to boys and girls.
Get a giant macrobracchium . It'll last until your kid's at least 10 .


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## dl88dl (Mar 8, 2010)

Ciddian said:


> Heh thats true dave.. lol
> 
> By changes I just mean some people find the ways of keeping fish has gotten much more complex and too challenging, when I don't really think it has.
> 
> More gear out there, filters, lights.. it can seem overwhelming to come I guess.


I agree it has become lot easier now then back in the old days Take for example when we keep SW fishy it was hard to keep them alive since there were no talks on using LR and the way they collect the SW fishy were to use chemical to put them to sleep so makes it easy to collect...depends were it was collected some don't use chemical and those were the ones that last much longer. I have heard that these chemicals they use stays in the fish like poison so fishy can only last about 6 months tops. Now we have much better equipments for sure


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## Darkside (Sep 14, 2009)

I started in to this hobby when I was 9 years old as well. My poor parents having to deal with my eventual 10 aquariums.


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## BillD (Jun 5, 2006)

In some ways, it is easier than ever, primarily because of more available information. Yes, it can be complicated, but, filtration can be as simple as an air pump and sponge filter. There are all sorts of inexpensive lighting options, that allow for plant growth. This can be an expensive hobby, but it doesn't need to be. So, while the hobby may be adult dominated, there is an influx of younger people, although it is incumbent on us elders to encourage participation by kids and teens. Aquarium clubs and CAOAC are active in promoting the hobby to youngsters, and encouraging their participation.


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## Cory (May 2, 2008)

First off, great topic cid! 

Personally, I started out when I was 9 yrs old with a 20 gal in my bedroom that my parents got me as a starter pet. My sister also got a 20 gal in her room. Within a few months both tanks were in my room and I was breeding guppies  I remember that by the time we moved houses I had the two 20s a 35 a 10 a 5 and a 2.5. I still have all of those tanks today . I may not have been the typical kid but I think the hobby would still interest the kids. 

IMO parents these days are much more likely to just give their kids some hand held console and let them plug away mindlessly than actually engage them and take them places for enrichment. I see it all the time now, parents just seem irresponsible, letting their kids run amok. Before this looks like a rant about parents, the point is that I got into fish because my parents got me into it. They got me the tank and took me to the fish store even before I had fish every sunday when we would go for lunch because the store was close by to the lunch place we went to. 

I suspect that if you immerse your daughter in a fishy world early on Cid, she will be far more likely to take it up as a hobby later and frankly, with all the other hobbies kids can take up these days, you're probably ahead of the game if you get her into something safe and educational like fish now . I hope to do a youth program at a few schools next year to try and bring more kids into the hobby while also teaching them a little elementary biology. The reality is though, that if kids aren't exposed to it, they aren't going to want it.


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## dl88dl (Mar 8, 2010)

So far looks like the age of 9 is a good age to start in this hobby. I also forgot to mention why it is easier today to keep fishy is because we have GTAA


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

The hobby is dominated by mainly adults, but I bet almost 90% picked up an old hobby introduced to them when they were children.

I think the hobby will stay strong, but always with the adult crowd - at least in regards to serious hobbyists. Never fear, kids will always have a natural love and curiousity for animals. Remember going to the pet shop when you were a kid? Or the zoo, or farm?

That isn't to say everyone eventually returns to the hobby as an adult. If that were true, we would have 2.5 millions users here


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## UnderTheSea (Jun 2, 2008)

I remember my family getting our first aquarium (~20g) when I was starting school. Being a severe asthmatic the fuzzy animals were out due to allergic reactions. We did the guppy and zebra thing and it wasn't until I was about 12 I got my own aquarium setup (~33g) in my bedroom with an interest in sharks. 

With our first child on the way 6+ years ago I made a decision (well the wife helped) to sell my motorcycle and get into something the family would like. Along came the first SW setup. It has always amazed my daughter and even our 3 month old is simply fascinated by the tank (more the colours at this point as there is no appreciation for the livestock). Our 5 year old loves to help out when possible and most nights prefers to read something by Calfo, Fenner, Michael etc. She loves to go through the books and find out what fish are compatible with her ideal system. She really wants her own 12g nano in her room. She actually assisted me today with a small install of a 12G Nano Viper setup (of course it was approved by the client that she may be present) and no she didn't make any commission  .

My plan is to sponsor a few tanks in schools in the Whitby area next year. Our daughters class has hermit crabs this year. I think I nice 28g Nano in the schools library would be a great start to educate today's children. I remember we had a hamster in I think grade 3 but my understanding is that they are no longer allowed due to allergies.


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## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

UnderTheSea said:


> I remember my family getting our first aquarium (~20g) when I was starting school. Being a severe asthmatic the fuzzy animals were out due to allergic reactions. We did the guppy and zebra thing and it wasn't until I was about 12 I got my own aquarium setup (~33g) in my bedroom with an interest in sharks.
> 
> With our first child on the way 6+ years ago I made a decision (well the wife helped) to sell my motorcycle and get into something the family would like. Along came the first SW setup. It has always amazed my daughter and even our 3 month old is simply fascinated by the tank (more the colours at this point as there is no appreciation for the livestock). Our 5 year old loves to help out when possible and most nights prefers to read something by Calfo, Fenner, Michael etc. She loves to go through the books and find out what fish are compatible with her ideal system. She really wants her own 12g nano in her room. She actually assisted me today with a small install of a 12G Nano Viper setup (of course it was approved by the client that she may be present) and no she didn't make any commission  .
> 
> My plan is to sponsor a few tanks in schools in the Whitby area next year. Our daughters class has hermit crabs this year. I think I nice 28g Nano in the schools library would be a great start to educate today's children. I remember we had a hamster in I think grade 3 but my understanding is that they are no longer allowed due to allergies.




Let's wrap the kids in bubble wrap. What haven't they banned? Sand in playgrounds is bad, it has germs. Metal bars in playgrounds are dangerous. Wear a helmet. Don't have a rabbit or a hamster, there are allergic kids, don't bring peanut butter, there are allergic kids.

Maybe your kid isn't supposed to make it... I mean, come on.. I'm being a little tongue and cheek here but come on... If your kid can't deal with hamsters and peanut butter wrap them in some bubble wrap, disinfect them, and home school them. In a hazmat suit.


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## InSpirit (Mar 14, 2009)

I think the old guys in the hobby will have had 'the experience' that young kids today never will. We experienced the hobby as the hobby matured and the industry evolved. If your first tank was steel framed... you know what I mean. There was no internet so you had to go to your local store and buy the latest copy of TFH or FAMA and talk to the store keeper to learn the hobby. Look at the SW trade. In the beginning it was fish only aquariums. Then some guy in Germany invented the 'mini reef' trickle and we all ran to Aquarium Toronto to see it in action. And as the hobby evolved the manufacturers made a killing developing new products to sell to us. And now it's all out there. Equipment is plug and play. But what is lacking is 'the experience' the older generation had growing with the hobby. The younger generation are too busy texting one another, listening to their ipod, playing a video game or surfing the web. I only had a 'pong' game growing up so it was easy to become bored and go mess around with my aquariums.


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## UnderTheSea (Jun 2, 2008)

AquariAM, I know there are some kids that are very prone to getting sick (my daughter included, who has gone through 10+ heart surgeries / procedures). I don't believe that you should bubble your child. My daughter was house bound her first 3 years of her live due to surgeries and couldn't be sick heading in to them. We still did take her out to the Toronto Zoo and other places where there wasn't a lot of people to people contact.

As for pets go, I'm totally about introducing them to her and letting her make the decision. Heck my lil' sis (well she's 22) has a pet goat, chickens/hens and 4 dogs. The goat thinks he is a dog.  

I don't think the age of majority will ever swing that more youths are in this hobby due to the money factor and lack off wanting to learn (laziness).


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## dl88dl (Mar 8, 2010)

UnderTheSea said:


> I
> My plan is to sponsor a few tanks in schools in the Whitby area next year. Our daughters class has hermit crabs this year. I think I nice 28g Nano in the schools library would be a great start to educate today's children. I remember we had a hamster in I think grade 3 but my understanding is that they are no longer allowed due to allergies.


That is a great idea to get kids interested. When my son was in grade 6 I sponsor a 35gal with all equipment but the teacher wants to get their own fishy and the whole class when to BA and pick their own fishy. I would imagine that some of these kids might start their own tanks at home after seeing it in their classroom.


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## Abner (Apr 7, 2009)

I got two girls and they absolutely love the aquariums..the youngest will sit for at least 15 minutes( which is a long time to sit still for her) and the older one loves finding things in the SW tank. They can point out which fish daddy got for them and want to feed them and help with water changes. i try to keep them involved because i remember our first tank(more like a glass box with water and sand with an airstone) in St.lucia, my brother wanted saltwater so we caught a small grouper( very very hard) and we collected seawater twice a day lol. I think that if the hobby was a little more affordable more kids would go in on their own, i just don't see many kids spending all their allowance or part time job money on having an aquarium but as we grow older our way of thinking changes and so will what we spend money on..i know this hobby will never die out and if you keep your kids involved at an early age you will be surprised at the information they retain.


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## GuppiesAndBetta (Jul 27, 2009)

Ciddian said:


> I see a lot of teens and stuff getting interested in keeping aquariums but I asked a couple of people a while ago if they think there is enough youth interest in keeping fish and the like. The general thinking was it was an adult dominated hobby.
> 
> What do you guys think?
> This hobby is pretty expensive and it gets intense  because we (as a human population) just want "better, newer, and more", especially for teenagers and youths.
> ...


Answers above


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## Ciddian (Mar 15, 2006)

Wow guys I love hearing your feedback. Its really awesome to hear how much some of you are into working with your kiddos or school to get them interested.

UTS's kiddo and mine are around the same age and she's really getting into tracking the fish, esp the really shiny ones like the oddessa and the LF rosy I still have.

I am friends with a school teacher in the school I used to go to, I should really see if she wants me to set up a tank for her.


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

InSpirit said:


> But what is lacking is 'the experience' the older generation had growing with the hobby. The younger generation are too busy texting one another, listening to their ipod, playing a video game or surfing the web.


I do all these things too...


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## freddymp (Jan 15, 2010)

Ciddian said:


> I see a lot of teens and stuff getting interested in keeping aquariums but I asked a couple of people a while ago if they think there is enough youth interest in keeping fish and the like. The general thinking was it was an adult dominated hobby.
> 
> What do you guys think?
> 
> ...


I started when I was 6 or 7 years.

Back in the days in my old country (Indonesia) we used to have a few of street vendors on bicycles or cart selling fish on small glass jars. We would see them at our local market or sometimes at our elementary school. Many of those vendors still remember me 20 years later when I come to visit .

Both our kids (10 and 5) are quite interested in our tanks (a planted pot, planted FW, and pico SW). I tried to use these tanks to show that the balance in nature is extremely delicate. When we go to the lake or sea, I would show them the fish, clams, crayfish, snails, crabs, sea urchin, corals, etc., in their natural habitat. Also took them to scuba diving, swimming along large tangs and they love it (there was a barracuda 30 m away...)

Here (in North America) the hobby seems to be dominated by adults probably because of the cost of equipment and fish. But as some said, low tech setup works, can be very beautiful, and educational too.

One thing that I miss in Toronto is the absence of good public aquarium. There are many really beautiful ones in the U.S. (Chicago`s Lincoln Park Zoo, Milwaukee`s Discovery World, Cleveland Zoo, Boston Aquarium, Monterey Bay Aquarium, and others). Some of these are free if you have membership in other science centers such as ON Science Centre.

Freddy


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## dl88dl (Mar 8, 2010)

freddymp said:


> I started when I was 6 or 7 years.
> 
> Back in the days in my old country (Indonesia) we used to have a few of street vendors on bicycles or cart selling fish on small glass jars. We would see them at our local market or sometimes at our elementary school. Many of those vendors still remember me 20 years later when I come to visit .
> 
> ...


Hi Freddy, have you been to the Toronto zoo they have some aquarium on display. After I read about those street vendors...I just remembered that when I was 6yrs or 7yrs there were also vendors in the street in Hong Kong and they put 6 to 12 guppies in small bags and only cost 10 cents each bag. But the guppy is the only fish I remember at that time and when they come by I always look at them and follow them around but my family don't have a fish tank until we came over to Toronto where my father started a 10gal with the metal trims and metal canopy with couple pair of guppies and in no time there were so many.


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## freddymp (Jan 15, 2010)

dl88dl said:


> Hi Freddy, have you been to the Toronto zoo they have some aquarium on display. After I read about those street vendors...I just remembered that when I was 6yrs or 7yrs there were also vendors in the street in Hong Kong and they put 6 to 12 guppies in small bags and only cost 10 cents each bag. But the guppy is the only fish I remember at that time and when they come by I always look at them and follow them around but my family don't have a fish tank until we came over to Toronto where my father started a 10gal with the metal trims and metal canopy with couple pair of guppies and in no time there were so many.


Hi Dave, we have not been to the Toronto zoo yet unfortunately. Yes the baby critters always intrigue the kids. We just had a baby clam that appears out of nowhere in our planted FW and now it is 1 cm across.

I remember seeing an alternating FW current with neon tetras in Boston AQ in 1993: you press a button the tetras heads one way and the plants sway the other way; you press the other button, they all reverses


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## dl88dl (Mar 8, 2010)

freddymp said:


> Hi Dave, we have not been to the Toronto zoo yet unfortunately. Yes the baby critters always intrigue the kids. We just had a baby clam that appears out of nowhere in our planted FW and now it is 1 cm across.
> 
> I remember seeing an alternating FW current with neon tetras in Boston AQ in 1993: you press a button the tetras heads one way and the plants sway the other way; you press the other button, they all reverses


Sounds cool...when you get a chance head over to the Toronto zoo...I think you and your family will enjoy it.


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## Cory (May 2, 2008)

Ripleys is supposed to be building a large public aquarium at the base of the CN tower sometime soon. I believe it just needs final approval. I hope it happens!


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## freddymp (Jan 15, 2010)

Cory said:


> Ripleys is supposed to be building a large public aquarium at the base of the CN tower sometime soon. I believe it just needs final approval. I hope it happens!


I hope so too. We need something like the Allan Gardens Conservatory, but full of fishies (and plants and corals) from all over the world! That I think will excite kids and adults alike


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## dl88dl (Mar 8, 2010)

freddymp said:


> I hope so too. We need something like the Allan Gardens Conservatory, but full of fishies (and plants and corals) from all over the world! That I think will excite kids and adults alike


It would definitely excite me too and will be good for the fishy hobby.


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## Violie (Feb 27, 2010)

I think the big thing about keeping fish is the price. You have to pay for the tank, the heater, the filter, the filter media, the water conditionar, substrate, decorations, lighting, test kits and so on and so on.

It probably plays a big factor for teens being interested. I recently became interested in fishkeeping, and I know I couldn't do ANYTHING with my fascination if it weren't for my part-time job.

My dad thought of getting a tank and then thought of all the work I've put into my little tank and backed off. I told him that there are no easy pets... though there is one exception. Cats. Only easy pet. Litter box + food + water. That's all they need really. (I have 3 cats )


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## Oldman (Mar 26, 2010)

At my age I find that many of the people interested in the hobby are only children. I worked a club rush-like event with my club last weekend. The people where we had the most success recruiting new members were only about 40 years old by my estimates. We had ourselves invited by a privately operated LFS and set up in the entry area to their shop to try to have people take our brochures and other literature so that we could do some recruiting of membership. It turned out that we were met with quite a good deal of success in finding people genuinely interested in our club. The club has a benefit, among the many benefits, of getting a 15% discount at that very fish shop. Anyone who was a regular customer there was very interested in joining for that reason alone. If they attend a few meetings, we expect to bring them into our club and rejuvenate it with younger people. I am about in the middle of our present club membership at 62 years old and a younger, 40 something, crowd gives us some hope for having our club continue into the future. 
A second thing that I see is that my grandchildren are fascinated by the tiny living creatures in my tanks. That means that the 7 year old has talked mom into setting up a 20 gallon that she had packed away and the two that are a bit older but still sub-teens are each glad to get a few free fish for their tanks from grandpa. They find the fish relaxing when they are working on their school homework. The oldest of my grandchildren is too much into boys to really be interested in fish, but she has the learnings as a youngster to come back to them as she moves forward into adulthood. Her younger brother of only 14 years has his own tank in his bedroom and still is not that far gone into girls to forget that there are other things that are fun. 
I hold lots of hope that the growing people behind my own generation are going to continue the hobby, although many of them will do as I myself did and forgo the joys of fish keeping while they are young and their attention is on kids and family issues. In the end, yo0u come to realize that a living being, the fish, is far more satisfying than the short term minor pleasures of games and similar distractions. Who needs a distraction when you can interact with a living thing like a fish?


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## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

I've had reptiles and fish my whole life-- since I was so young that I 'walked' my goldfish (I was four). They didn't last long. Eventually I figured things out though. I say I've been keeping fish for ten years because that's how long I've done it properly. I brutally murdered many a goldfish via neglect growing up.

When I was younger I was most interested in snails, snakes, lizards, crabs, crawfish, stuff like that. That's why I think something like that is the best choice. I was a weird kid though..


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## blackninja (Dec 3, 2009)

Have to commend a lot of you guys for starting out that young in the hobby. Considering the short attention span youngsters have and fish swimming in aquariums are less interactive than say a puppy demonstrates patience and a willingness to sacrifice or substitute excitement for the mundane. There is so much more to life and recreation than watching a trapped fish swim aimless in a confined tank....and to subject a young child to this drudgery instead of developing their creative potentials is an excuse for parenting to rationalize.
This is why so many fish die in the hobby because of neglect, inexperience, boredom and an immature attitude towards the keeping and caring of fish.
Having said that....I not only discourage children from wasting time in this hobby but also many adults who should be setting better examples to their children.
Several studies have been done with the infirm, the young, the incarcerated and it has been observed their conditions improve when they are interacting with pets, stroking, cuddling walking them etc and very little benefit when they are staring at a wall , painting or an aquarium. 
But that does not conclude the hobby has no place in our lives. But when it is trivialized so too becomes of the time we waste on it.


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## Fish_Man (Apr 9, 2010)

blackninja said:


> Have to commend a lot of you guys for starting out that young in the hobby. Considering the short attention span youngsters have and fish swimming in aquariums are less interactive than say a puppy demonstrates patience and a willingness to sacrifice or substitute excitement for the mundane. There is so much more to life and recreation than watching a trapped fish swim aimless in a confined tank....and to subject a young child to this drudgery instead of developing their creative potentials is an excuse for parenting to rationalize.
> This is why so many fish die in the hobby because of neglect, inexperience, boredom and an immature attitude towards the keeping and caring of fish.
> Having said that....I not only discourage children from wasting time in this hobby but also many adults who should be setting better examples to their children.
> Several studies have been done with the infirm, the young, the incarcerated and it has been observed their conditions improve when they are interacting with pets, stroking, cuddling walking them etc and very little benefit when they are staring at a wall , painting or an aquarium.
> But that does not conclude the hobby has no place in our lives. But when it is trivialized so too becomes of the time we waste on it.


That is true, but it is relaxing going home to the aquarium , it gives me a way to relax after a long day.


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## BettaBeats (Jan 14, 2010)

I was always interested in my dad's aquariums. My comment would be to watch over how many of the duties you are giving to the child. Over feeding could occur, etc. But I think if you teach a child the basics they will learn to love to hobby. I would have a teachers' approach to the task, so if they get bored the fish aren't dying.


I am nearly 50% positive you can teach a child not to over feed.
lol,


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## freddymp (Jan 15, 2010)

It is relaxing and it is more interactive, than say, watching SpongeBob and Patrick.  

One thing that aquaria teach is the delicate balance of chemical:
- Seeing algae bloom because over feeding -- teaches pollution
- Seeing a yellowish water (SW) turns clear overnight -- teaches the overall balance, effectiveness of different filtration techniques
- Showing that a DIY skimmer works in extracting the gunk -- teaches improvisation and creativity, and some fluid dynamics (bubble sizes, contact time, surface tension) to boot!
- Showing dedication -- teaches responsibility, reward (and penalty)

Some of above are something that are perhaps less apparent in other pets.

Adults certainly will have to help and guide. This is in addition to the other regular children activities and parenting responsibilities.


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## blackninja (Dec 3, 2009)

I guess the same arguments were used to keep killer whales in captivity so children could learn about killer whales. But the whales had to do fancy tricks to amuse the spectators which then ceased to be educational and more like commercial exploitation. Keeping aquatic/marine animals in unnatural pools and tanks does create problems and we try to work around those problems with filtration, chemical balance, treatment etc. so we are better equipped to keep these creatures alive in captivity. Is there a higher purpose in this activity?


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## Cory (May 2, 2008)

The point of a "hobby" is to be fun. It doesn't have to have any intrinsic value to be worthwhile. Given that most kids are out there seeking fun and not getting jobs or doing anything else mildly productive I don't think that parents who get their children fish tanks should be faulted. It's a lot better than a lot of other things they could be doing for fun, like drugs, joining gangs, vandalizing public property etc. but it's even superior as a hobby to video games and Harry Potter books because at least the kids are learning something valuable (hopefully) or at the very least they are developing an appreciation for nature which is essential if our planet is going to survive another 100 years. 

On that note, given the way we treat our water systems, many of the species we keep in our aquariums may soon be extinct in the wild and all of a sudden this becomes a conservation project. I don't think well taken care of fish are upset about their conditions.. They fare better than their cousins in the wild no doubt and I'm pretty sure a fish doesn't get bored of the decorations so I don't see how keeping them in a glass box is cruel. Not to mention that if they are merely swimming around aimlessly in the tanks that's probably what they do in the wild too. Not that my fish usually appear to be aimless in their endeavors but that's besides the point. 

I think this is an amazing, very old, very educational hobby and one that a lot of people would be wise to get their kids into. I've seen the kids people are churning out these days and most of them are mindless video game machines that watch reality tv and make movies of themselves being really moronic on youtube. I'd definitely prefer a bunch of kids working on their aquariums. I have a cousin with kids and they love the fish tanks whenever they come over.... the wonder in their eyes at all of the colours and behaviors. I don't think a debate over whether or not bringing kids into the hobby is a good thing has any merit, only the original question of whether or not we can bring kids back from the brink of electronic oblivion is relevant in my mind.


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## BettaBeats (Jan 14, 2010)

blackninja said:


> I guess the same arguments were used to keep killer whales in captivity so children could learn about killer whales. But the whales had to do fancy tricks to amuse the spectators which then ceased to be educational and more like commercial exploitation. Keeping aquatic/marine animals in unnatural pools and tanks does create problems and we try to work around those problems with filtration, chemical balance, treatment etc. so we are better equipped to keep these creatures alive in captivity. Is there a higher purpose in this activity?


there is a difference between a whale in a tank 3 times its size as opposed to several fish with a tank 1000 times their size.

i would not compare a giant sea MAMMAL to a small freshwater fish.


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## blackninja (Dec 3, 2009)

Cory said:


> The point of a "hobby" is to be fun. It doesn't have to have any intrinsic value to be worthwhile. Given that most kids are out there seeking fun and not getting jobs or doing anything else mildly productive I don't think that parents who get their children fish tanks should be faulted. It's a lot better than a lot of other things they could be doing for fun, like drugs, joining gangs, vandalizing public property etc. but it's even superior as a hobby to video games and Harry Potter books because at least the kids are learning something valuable (hopefully) or at the very least they are developing an appreciation for nature which is essential if our planet is going to survive another 100 years.
> 
> On that note, given the way we treat our water systems, many of the species we keep in our aquariums may soon be extinct in the wild and all of a sudden this becomes a conservation project. I don't think well taken care of fish are upset about their conditions.. They fare better than their cousins in the wild no doubt and I'm pretty sure a fish doesn't get bored of the decorations so I don't see how keeping them in a glass box is cruel. Not to mention that if they are merely swimming around aimlessly in the tanks that's probably what they do in the wild too. Not that my fish usually appear to be aimless in their endeavors but that's besides the point.
> 
> I think this is an amazing, very old, very educational hobby and one that a lot of people would be wise to get their kids into. I've seen the kids people are churning out these days and most of them are mindless video game machines that watch reality tv and make movies of themselves being really moronic on youtube. I'd definitely prefer a bunch of kids working on their aquariums. I have a cousin with kids and they love the fish tanks whenever they come over.... the wonder in their eyes at all of the colours and behaviors. I don't think a debate over whether or not bringing kids into the hobby is a good thing has any merit, only the original question of whether or not we can bring kids back from the brink of electronic oblivion is relevant in my mind.


I can agree with you replacing one form of child neglect with another does not make it necessarily worse. But it is a big stretch to say it is a very educational hobby. You must have witnessed debates on fish where people claiming to have 40 years of experience could not even identify hybrids in african cichlids, so many different suggestions to treating a sick fish by very experienced fish keepers and mostly wrong or doing 50% water change daily to control the dirtiness in the aquarium...and the list goes on. If people actually read the stuff on forums they can only agree this hobby stunts development. Not that it has to always be that way. Maybe we need more participation from dedicated people like you.


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## Fish_Man (Apr 9, 2010)

One thing people don't realize (people that don't have aquarium) is taking care of fish is probably harder than taking care of a dog or cat.

1)If not cycled the tank - fish can die or shorter lifespan
2)There is less noticeable signs when they are sick
3)Their conditions of living is a lot different than us so we can't understand them as much as understanding a dog or a cat that can live in the environment we live in (unless you're a slob  )


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## blackninja (Dec 3, 2009)

Fish_Man said:


> One thing people don't realize (people that don't have aquarium) is taking care of fish is probably harder than taking care of a dog or cat.
> 
> 1)If not cycled the tank - fish can die or shorter lifespan
> 2)There is less noticeable signs when they are sick
> 3)Their conditions of living is a lot different than us so we can't understand them as much as understanding a dog or a cat that can live in the environment we live in (unless you're a slob  )


Are you suggesting we have qualifiers before people can enter the hobby. I know in UK when you adopt a pet they actually check to see if you have suitable living conditions for the pet and you can be rejected if you fail the requirements. There is a move to ban keeping goldfish in bowls and a ban on small tanks. You could get arrested for mistreating a guppy. Times are a changing.


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## Fish_Man (Apr 9, 2010)

blackninja said:


> Are you suggesting we have qualifiers before people can enter the hobby. I know in UK when you adopt a pet they actually check to see if you have suitable living conditions for the pet and you can be rejected if you fail the requirements. There is a move to ban keeping goldfish in bowls and a ban on small tanks. You could get arrested for mistreating a guppy. Times are a changing.


That is amazing that the UK does that. So is it not possible to buy small tanks at all then?

My point is: sometimes its frustrating when people come over and think fish are so easy to take care of compare to a house cat. People sometimes just don't understand the work that we all put into it.

I think its great to bring kids into this hobby, I think you learn a lot.


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## blackninja (Dec 3, 2009)

Fish_Man said:


> That is amazing that the UK does that. So is it not possible to buy small tanks at all then?
> 
> My point is: sometimes its frustrating when people come over and think fish are so easy to take care of compare to a house cat. People sometimes just don't understand the work that we all put into it.
> 
> I think its great to bring kids into this hobby, I think you learn a lot.


I am sure there might be areas where we agree. But I entered this hobby as an adult and take an adult approach when it comes to dealing with the issues related to the hobby and that includes staying informed and avoiding some of the pitfalls like staying stuck on stupid for extended periods.


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## shadow_cruiser (Jan 26, 2010)

From my past getting into this hobby when I was a early teen, I don't think they have the understanding caring for an aquarium or the effort for that matter. Maybe things have changed now because their was no internet back then, so information is available everywhere.

When I went to university, there was no way I could take care of an aquarium. It's a Saturday and your friends are asking you to go out "Uhhh, actually, I can't go guys, I gotta do a water change, trim my plants and clean my filtration".


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## blackninja (Dec 3, 2009)

shadow_cruiser said:


> From my past getting into this hobby when I was a early teen, I don't think they have the understanding caring for an aquarium or the effort for that matter. Maybe things have changed now because their was no internet back then, so information is available everywhere.
> 
> When I went to university, there was no way I could take care of an aquarium. It's a Saturday and your friends are asking you to go out "Uhhh, actually, I can't go guys, I gotta do a water change, trim my plants and clean my filtration".


That is about right. I have 2 boys one graduating and the other in his 2nd year UoT. They also work, drive fancy cars and party the good life. The closest they have come to fish is in some Sushi bar. I often wonder if I should have got them a goldfish each when they were young so they would see life through a fish bowl.


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## trailblazer295 (Mar 7, 2010)

AquariAM said:


> Let's wrap the kids in bubble wrap. What haven't they banned? Sand in playgrounds is bad, it has germs. Metal bars in playgrounds are dangerous. Wear a helmet. Don't have a rabbit or a hamster, there are allergic kids, don't bring peanut butter, there are allergic kids.
> 
> Maybe your kid isn't supposed to make it... I mean, come on.. I'm being a little tongue and cheek here but come on... If your kid can't deal with hamsters and peanut butter wrap them in some bubble wrap, disinfect them, and home school them. In a hazmat suit.


I always wondered when the peanut became the deadliest thing on earth.


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## blackninja (Dec 3, 2009)

trailblazer295 said:


> I always wondered when the peanut became the deadliest thing on earth.


They have traced the source of the problem to genetically modified peanuts. This problem does not exist in other major peanut producing/consuming countries.


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## KhuliLoachFan (Mar 8, 2008)

My twelve year old son has suffered the effects of having a multi-tank-syndrome father. I must confess I took the water change and feeding of his goldfish into my own hands after he bailed on the responsibility.

He's very interested in learning more, but I just haven't take the time to show him the ropes. His tank is on the bottom of a pair of 10gs on a metal stand. I think if I had his tank on its own stand, and let him completely do it up as he liked it, he might take pride in it. He does love his goldfish, and comes down to give it duckweed (skimmed from other tanks) when the duckweed level in the goldfish tank gets too low. But he doesn't feed it or do water changes.

My bad.

:-(

W


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## Forgotmynamesorry (Apr 11, 2009)

As a teenager, I have had a facination with fish for a while. Not until recently, though, have I started a tank on my own.


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## Darkside (Sep 14, 2009)

Fish_Man said:


> One thing people don't realize (people that don't have aquarium) is taking care of fish is probably harder than taking care of a dog or cat.
> 
> 1)If not cycled the tank - fish can die or shorter lifespan
> 2)There is less noticeable signs when they are sick
> 3)Their conditions of living is a lot different than us so we can't understand them as much as understanding a dog or a cat that can live in the environment we live in (unless you're a slob  )


Taking care of fish is NOT more difficult or time consuming than taking care of a dog. Dogs are a lot of work, but well worth the effort put into caring for them.


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## Riceburner (Mar 14, 2008)

my oldest likes touching the fish....


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## WiyRay (Jan 11, 2009)

Darkside said:


> Taking care of fish is NOT more difficult or time consuming than taking care of a dog. Dogs are a lot of work, but well worth the effort put into caring for them.


Thank goodness you don't have to give fish baths like you do with dogs and cats...


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## jen_jen_ng (Apr 20, 2010)

*Good chance bringing kids into this hobby... (maybe~ ?)*

I didn't notice this thread until today. And I just _have_ to add to this thread =P

Fish weren't on the top of my list as pets that I would like to have (until now). Frankly, they were my alternatives to having a puppy and hamsters (Although I am very likely to sneak another hamster in my room in a couple of months^^ regardless how annoyed my family members are of their smell and midnight noises. No luck with puppies though... yet... lol.).

It is to my surprise that fish keeping can come with so much fun and enjoyment (as well as responsibilities!). It didn't take long for me to realize this and get hooked onto this hobby... a week? (started a month ago at 21yrs) 

I think if I was given the chance to explore or know someone that has fish pets to show+tell me about his/her experience, I would like and appreciate fish more and sooner. So, I think it's the same goes for children.

Here's an approach to get children to explore and have interest in fish keeping (*not my pic) -->










This is how one of the classroom in a school looks like. That's very impressive! *My future classroom will look somewhat like this! (hopefully) >=)*

This definitely can be a long term project. From cycling to arranging decors/plants, to learning about mating and breeding, to observing life and death, to responsibilities and ownership, etc, etc, etc....... and *to continuing their own hobby at home^^*

No hamster allergies, peanut allergies, _hopefully no fish allergies!_ 

~ Jennifer ~


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## TBemba (Jan 11, 2010)

Take them to a Fish auction there are 2 this weekend. Not always but some times they have shows and the fish always impress.


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## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

Fish_Man said:


> That is amazing that the UK does that. So is it not possible to buy small tanks at all then?
> 
> My point is: sometimes its frustrating when people come over and think fish are so easy to take care of compare to a house cat. People sometimes just don't understand the work that we all put into it.
> 
> I think its great to bring kids into this hobby, I think you learn a lot.


Really its amazing that you can get arrested for mistreating a guppy? Arresting people for mistreating animals is insane. That's bullshit. You shouldn't be able to arrest someone for any crime against an animal, only a crime against a person.

If some kids mutilate a cat, that's screwed up, and they should get mandatory counselling as well as several years of probation and a gigantic fine. However, to physically deprive someone of the freedom to walk around in the world is something I only believe is justified for Rape, murder, conspiracy to commit murder, severe assaults causing severe bodily harm, and exorbitant- the kind that would cripple the other person/party. In other words- if the act won't physically impact the other _person_ in a catastrophic way, you shouldn't be going to jail for it.

How can you eat a chicken or a cow, then turn around and say it's ok that you ate the chicken- but it's not ok to eat a parrot. It's ok to eat a cow, but not a dog.

It's sort of screwy that we attatch this massive negative moral stigma to say, killing a dog, which I agree is horrible-- but why do I think that? Because I was born and raised in Canada. If you kill a cow in India it's off to jail with you. If you kill a dog in China to eat it nothing will happen. If you kill a cow in Canada to eat it nothing will happen-- but if you kill a dog in Canada then you can go to jail.

Something's very screwed up there. If it's wrong to kill, it's wrong period. We trivialize ourselves and our humanity by saying X is ok in Y situation. It is or it isn't. There is no 'sometimes'. That's a screwed up psychological trick we play on ourselves.


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## Sagittarius-Aquarius (Oct 30, 2009)

I would say the youngest people I know who've been interested in fishkeeping as a hobby are 17. As young children, most are interested in fluffy pets that are cute and run around. I think a rare case may exist where a child may be interested in fishkeeping, but as an actual hobby, I'd say adults are the only demographic interested in doing all of the research and spending the money required in keeping an intricate and well-kept tank.

Also, water changes are a pain in larger tanks! 

Oh, I didn't finish my train of thought.

I think it would be pretty easy to bring kids into the hobby. A big part of why kids don't enjoy fish keeping as a hobby is because it's "boring". If kids were able to watch a large community tank, or the breeding and rearing of fry, or even just started off raising a very unique fish with their parents (pirahna, betta, shark, lion fish) they would probably stay interested. Just make sure their first fish are interactive or you're willing to breed and adequately care for the fish to the rest of your abilities, and I think kids will respond.


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