# rams have pock marks



## tom g (Jul 8, 2009)

hey there guys can anyone help me with what is wrong with my bolivian rams , it seams they have some sort of indentation or pock marks on the face not sure if this is normal , i dont think so 
i am gonna try to post a pic of him 
thanks 
tom
cant seem to get the pic shrunk down enough to post 
hope someone can help 
thanks again 
tom


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## Hitch (Apr 26, 2009)

you mean like holes? aside from the nostrils right?

pic would def be needed....upload the pics on photobucket.com and then just post the link here...


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## Mr Fishies (Sep 21, 2007)

In addition to the pics (which you can attach to a reply, no need to post them elsewhere), some background would help.

- New fish (these or others)?
- Water change schedule/%
- Filtration?
- Feeding regimen?

If it's something like Hole in the Head, it can sometimes be traced to diet and/or water quality or acclimation.

In the short term, until you have a good direction to go, a 20-25% water change is a good place to start along with a filter cleaning if it's been a while. Regardless of the medication you choose, if any, it's a good plant to start treatment with top notch water quality before dosing something and not changing water for a few days.


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## tom g (Jul 8, 2009)

*pock marks*

well i change water weekly , fed twice a day , had them for over 6 months 
tstd water today 
amonia 0-.25
nitate 0 ppm
p.h. 7.0
nitrite 0 ppm

http://s969.photobucket.com/albums


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## Mr Fishies (Sep 21, 2007)

Use attachments or check your link...


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## tom g (Jul 8, 2009)

*pock marks*

sorry guys trying to make it work http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae178/10tom10/zitram2.jpg

http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae178/10tom10/zitram.jpg


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## aaronc (Jul 24, 2008)

looks to me like hole in the head. try feeding a varied diet, and cut some frozen protein foods. to cure it try some metrodiazol. presoak it with the food prior to feeding its more effective.


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## tom g (Jul 8, 2009)

*pock marks*

never heard of those medicines before , where do i get them , and should i quarantine


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## Hitch (Apr 26, 2009)

If the fish didnt recently get into an accident...like jump out of the tank and landed on like forks or something..lol. I would second that it looks like hole in the head disease. 

I am not too sure about curing this disease. So others would be able to better help.


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## Mr Fishies (Sep 21, 2007)

tom g said:


> never heard of those medicines before , where do i get them , and should i quarantine


Looks like Hole in the head to me too.

Metronidazole is a pretty standard med, available at LFS and most big chains.

Quarantine is a decision you need to make, if you have a smallish tank you might consider treating the whole tank, but some meds will wipe out plants and/or kill off bio filters etc. I've seen it before, but not dealt with this one personally, so I can't help much other than refer you to searches and links on the web. That said there looks to be a lot of info on treating it. From QT and meds, to raising temps and treating with aquarium salt...I can't really recommend one over another. You can start with water changes, removing carbon, raising temps right away and look for a med or other treatment tomorrow, speedy response is key.


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## Cory (May 2, 2008)

HITH disease is one of the less well understood aquarium diseases but recent advances in knowledge about the disease have been made which make it possible to treat effectively. Firstly, it is quite rare to see HITH on such a small cichlid. The disease usually occurs in larger fish who are more likely to be mineral deficient than small fish which replenish their intestines more regularly. 
I've heard people say it only occurs in soft water, but I've seen otherwise so I don't believe that's true. 

In most cases the best way to treat HITH is through a combination of remedies which together will cure the various causes associated with the symptoms of HITH. HITH is primarily a mineral deficiency which occurs in your fish as a result of a massive increase in the number of flagelites living in your fish's gut. The parasites take up minerals the fish would normally utilize and so the fish begins to deplete its bone structure in search of minerals. As the fish depletes more of its bone mass holes begin to develop in the skeleton which show as lesions on the skin where the area has become sunken in. Fish are most bony in their cranial region and so the holes are most prominent there. As the condition progresses more secondary infections can occur and the situation begins to deteriorate more and more rapidly. 

Curing HITH requires immediate action otherwise the cosmetic damage done to the fish may be irreparable. Firstly, make the water nice and clean. A 50% water change is good, 35% at minimum. Buy a nutrient supplement rich in minerals like one of the kent supplements for fw and add it to the tank. Do NOT overdose on this stuff though or it will be far worse than the disease trust me. Small amounts are more than ample for your purposes. Add a little bit of aquarium salt to the tank. In your case, less than I'd normally recommend both because of the plants and the soft water fish you're keeping. Both of these things will allow for rapid absorption of minerals through the skin and gills which will give the fish a quick boost and a better ability to fight off the parasites. 

Now it's time to look at what you're feeding the fish. My guess is that it is not New Life Spectrum? If not, remedy the situation quickly. A quick scan of the primary ingredients on all of the fish foods at the lfs will quickly show you why this food should be your staple. Once HITH has set in though NLS alone may not be enough so supplement it with finely chopped krill, blanched spinach and zucchini prepared with garlic. The garlic will both help get the fish to eat the veggies and will also aid in repelling the parasitic infestation. 

You have now reached the finish line. You've remedied the underlying causes of the disease, now it's time to wipe out the parasites. Metro is usually the recommended poison for getting rid of the little buggers aggravating your fish and while I cannot speak personally to its effectiveness in that regard, others say it works. 

Hope this helps and best of luck!


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## DaFishMan (Dec 19, 2006)

Yup, hexamita is a pain. I never heard of for dwarf cichlids either, I usually see in oscars. To sum up, improve water quality and diet (usually more veggie matter needs to be added). Liquid vitamin can also be added to food same as metronidazole. Hope your rams get well soon


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## tom g (Jul 8, 2009)

*rams*

what is metro where do i get it , is metaflex or pimaflex goood to use or no 
just did a 35-40 water change , will do another one in a few days , i dont think my water was teh issue i do weekly water changes and a good cleaning 
well i will try what u guys rec as u guys are always right 
thanks guys , should i quarantine the rams or not


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## Tropicana (Feb 15, 2009)

You Should not need to Quarantine the fish its more or less a deficiency in the food and/or water quality. Water quality seems good from your maintenance schedule.


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## Cory (May 2, 2008)

tom g said:


> what is metro where do i get it , is metaflex or pimaflex goood to use or no
> just did a 35-40 water change , will do another one in a few days , i dont think my water was teh issue i do weekly water changes and a good cleaning
> well i will try what u guys rec as u guys are always right
> thanks guys , should i quarantine the rams or not


Water quality was not the cause of the problem, you are correct. It is never the cause of any problem specifically. It is always an aggravating factor though when there is something else in play. The only reason that I suggested you do a large water change in this case, since it does seem that your water quality was bad was to give your fish even BETTER water quality and thus promote a stronger immune response and just make the fish more robust in general thus giving their bodies the ability to naturally fight off the parasites better.


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## DaFishMan (Dec 19, 2006)

Metronidazole should nail the symptom. Varied diet and vitamins should nail the source. I think mops.ca has metro.

Water quality depends on stocking levels, amount you feed and frequency, size of tank, quality of filtration, and amount of water changed weekly. There's no set amount (for example 50% weekly is much debatable depending on stock levels) those factors can vary much from tank to tank. Rams are known to be sensitive to nitrates though.


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## tom g (Jul 8, 2009)

*hole in head*

hi guys thanks for all the help . i went ot the lfs , i got teh metro and i also got something called hex out . now just not sure which to treat with . anyone have any luk with either of these 
thanks 
tom


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## DaFishMan (Dec 19, 2006)

The metro is it the powder or a liquid form ? From what I understand it's best if the fish takes it in with food. Someone here should be able to give you specifics. 

With the hex med, follow the instructions it came with


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## tom g (Jul 8, 2009)

*pock marks*

hey there gang i have been treatin gmy ram for the hole in head diesese i have been treating him for 3 or 4 days now , he seems to have gotten worse then when we started , the pock parks have gone to sort of pimples and even slight bloody , stuck on what to doo , should i continue with the treatment or stop 
thanks 
tom


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## tom g (Jul 8, 2009)

*hoile in head diesese*

i have one bolivian ram with pockmarks on the face i am assuming that it is hole in head diesese.
35 g tank 
78 deg cel
plants /drftwood/gravel
about 3 weeks we have noticed that he had pock parks ( hole in head diesese)
tanks been u p and running for about 6 months 
water changes weekly
amonia 0/ nitate 0 /p.h 7.0/nitrite 0
2 angels /2 plecos /2 frogs/5 rosy barbs/4 danios /1 pea puffer /2 rams 
have been treating with melofix /pimofix 
since lst week switched to hex out , in quartantine tank
his face has gotten somewhat worse ,kinda of protruding white spots and a little bit of blood .
will try to get a photo and post it 
thanks 
tom


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