# Relfecting Light Question....



## MrCollings (Aug 13, 2010)

I am making an aquarium rack, and i plan on using something similar to the lighting in this DIY "http://www.aquariumlife.net/projects/diy-lighting/55.asp"

However, in the DIY the person used aluminum foil....
I really Really don't want to use it though, as aside from the fact it is Very easy to create a lot of hot spots and Very easy to start a fire, it only reflects up to 30% of light....

I am looking to possibly use something like mylar or foylon, but have not been able to find any in London (where i reside). Does anyone know of where i could possibly get some, or some alternative to it that would provide a decent amount of reflected light?


Thanks in advance!!


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

You can always use white paint. It is quite reflective.

Another user on another set of forums I visit actually found that aluminum foil was more efficient at reflecting light than Mylar (measured using a PAR meter). I was quite surprised.


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## arc (Mar 11, 2010)

White paint is great way to do it if you have a small fixture already. I painted my 2-10g for 5 dollars with some Lowe's brand spray paint. If have a large fixture or no fixture at all then try this:
http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/diy-aquarium/how-retrofit-your-light-cheap-35186/

A bit more work but if you get it right, it's like a high end reflector.


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## MrCollings (Aug 13, 2010)

Darkblade48 said:


> You can always use white paint. It is quite reflective.
> 
> Another user on another set of forums I visit actually found that aluminum foil was more efficient at reflecting light than Mylar (measured using a PAR meter). I was quite surprised.


I would use white paint, but the rack itself is made out of steel, and i just spent a nice penny on it lol. So, don't really want to paint the bottom of the shelves (where the lights would hang from)... And oh yah?? I don't know if i really trust aluminum foil though, it would be a little too close to the light for comfort....



arc said:


> White paint is great way to do it if you have a small fixture already. I painted my 2-10g for 5 dollars with some Lowe's brand spray paint. If have a large fixture or no fixture at all then try this:
> http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/diy-aquarium/how-retrofit-your-light-cheap-35186/
> 
> A bit more work but if you get it right, it's like a high end reflector.


Like i said above, don't really want to have to paint the shelves on the brand new steel rack  And i have no light fixture, i will be hanging the lights from the bottom of each shelf....

Here is an example of the shelf... And sorry, not exactly an "artist" lol 
The lights would be attach to the bottom of each rack...


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## 50seven (Feb 14, 2010)

Why not take a piece of aluminum or steel heating pipe? Find it at Home Depot in the HVAC section (usually by the plumbing supplies), and cut a section down the middle, giving you two curved reflectors. Just bend them a bit to adjust the curve to direct the light in the right direction. You could fasten it to the bottom of the shelf using small screws or magnets.


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## MrCollings (Aug 13, 2010)

50seven said:


> Why not take a piece of aluminum or steel heating pipe? Find it at Home Depot in the HVAC section (usually by the plumbing supplies), and cut a section down the middle, giving you two curved reflectors. Just bend them a bit to adjust the curve to direct the light in the right direction. You could fasten it to the bottom of the shelf using small screws or magnets.


I will have to go there and check it out (couldn't find on their site), thanks for the response


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## 50seven (Feb 14, 2010)

This is what you're looking for:


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## BillD (Jun 5, 2006)

Won't the lights already have a reflector?


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## coldmantis (Apr 5, 2010)

MrCollings said:


> I am making an aquarium rack, and i plan on using something similar to the lighting in this DIY "http://www.aquariumlife.net/projects/diy-lighting/55.asp"
> 
> However, in the DIY the person used aluminum foil....
> I really Really don't want to use it though, as aside from the fact it is Very easy to created a lot of hot spots and Very easy to start a fire, it only reflects up to 30% of light....
> ...


that aquariumlife site is what inspired me to make this
http://gtaaquaria.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16402&page=2


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## waj8 (Jun 30, 2010)

There are only two basic types of reflectors. Diffuse and specular. A white paint with high reflectivity is supposed to be as good as anything for a diffuse reflector. Paints that contain high levels of titanium dioxide are supposed to be very good. Aluminum foil should be good too when it is shiny and new. A piece of stove pipe is probably a really bad idea. It is not made out of something that is known to be highly reflective. and tarnishes as well. Aluminum and silver are supposed to be the best for reflectivity.

Specular reflectors are better than diffuse reflectors for getting light to the bottom of a tank. The shape of the reflector is very important though. For T5 lamps the minimum width of a specular reflector is about 3". For t12 lamps the minimum width of a specular reflector is about 8". That's why t5s are so much better.


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## gucci17 (Oct 11, 2007)

Mylar can be ordered at any hydroponics store. Give your local hydroponics store a call as it should be a regularly stocked item. 

Unfortunately, I don't think they will have a short length to work with as they will come in a large roll. 100ft is minimum if memory serves me right. A quick google can probably get you your answers.


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## Harry Muscle (Mar 21, 2007)

Try to find a store that deals with radio controlled airplanes. Mylar is sometimes used as a wing covering for these planes. They would also carry smaller amounts, since no one needs hundreds of feet of mylar to cover a 4 foot plane.

Harry


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## waj8 (Jun 30, 2010)

BTW there is something called LRV that is often on a paint can. It stands for light reflectance value. The closer the value is to 100 the more light the paint reflects. Not all white paint is equal.


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## BillD (Jun 5, 2006)

Are you planning on growing plants in all these tanks? If not, shoplights will have more than enough reflective capability. HD has one with a highly polished reflector and good spacing on the T8 tubes, and they are 10 3/4" wide. The fixtures are a little pricey at ~$50.


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## waj8 (Jun 30, 2010)

I used Mylar for a number of years in light fixtures to make specular reflectors. Not that crazy about it. I never used a glass cover and the moisture would completely remove the aluminum from the Mylar. The coating must have been incredibly thin. I would end up with a clear sheet of plastic. I used to get it from the hydroponics store. They sold it by the foot.


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## MrCollings (Aug 13, 2010)

Thanks for the replies Everyone!! I ended up finding Mylar here after all so i think i'm going to test it out before resorting to anything else....but thanks again for all the replies!!



waj8 said:


> I used Mylar for a number of years in light fixtures to make specular reflectors. Not that crazy about it. I never used a glass cover and the moisture would completely remove the aluminum from the Mylar. The coating must have been incredibly thin. I would end up with a clear sheet of plastic. I used to get it from the hydroponics store. They sold it by the foot.


Never knew the moisture could remove the aluminum like that, kinda sucks, but on the other hand i will be using glass to cover the tops, so hopefully that helps a bit..... how long did it take for the aluminum to fully clear?

Also, i got some CFL's from home hardware, but i didn't know which ones would work best, but i had to choose between the following two, and i picked the Green packaged one.... do you think it will work well with plants?

GREEN Package:
http://www.homehardware.ca/Products/index/show/product/I3694010/name/lamps_cf_23w_spiral_mm_827_2pk

RED Package:
http://www.homehardware.ca/Products/index/show/product/I3693843/name/lamp_cf_23w_gu24_827_1pk

and yes, i realize one link only has one bulb, but that's only because i couldn't find their link to the one with two lol....


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

The issue with mylar is exactly that once the aluminum starts to come off, more light will end up going through the mylar rather than get reflected back into the aquarium.

As for the CFL bulbs that you purchased, either looks fine.

If you don't like the warm white look, you can always change them out for "Daylight" type bulbs. These can be purchased at Home Depot.


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## MrCollings (Aug 13, 2010)

Darkblade48 said:


> The issue with mylar is exactly that once the aluminum starts to come off, more light will end up going through the mylar rather than get reflected back into the aquarium.
> 
> As for the CFL bulbs that you purchased, either looks fine.
> 
> If you don't like the warm white look, you can always change them out for "Daylight" type bulbs. These can be purchased at Home Depot.


Hmmm ok well thanks for the heads up! 
I will see at how frustrated i get at it peeling off, than i might switch over to something else lol, but till than 

And awesome, thanks for the advice!! 
I will probably use both than, warm on one shelf, white on the other, going all the way down 

Do you think plants would grow better in one more than the other?


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## BillD (Jun 5, 2006)

MrCollings said:


> Thanks for the replies Everyone!! I ended up finding Mylar here after all so i think i'm going to test it out before resorting to anything else....but thanks again for all the replies!!
> 
> Never knew the moisture could remove the aluminum like that, kinda sucks, but on the other hand i will be using glass to cover the tops, so hopefully that helps a bit..... how long did it take for the aluminum to fully clear?
> 
> ...


Neither of those bulbs will give either a pleasing light or grow plants well. They are way too yellow. You want 5000K (Philips Bright White)or 6500K (Daylight) bulbs. For what you want, having the smallest light in the industry is probably not a good thing.
My preference is for Philips bulbs, available at HD.


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## MrCollings (Aug 13, 2010)

BillD said:


> Neither of those bulbs will give either a pleasing light or grow plants well. They are way too yellow. You want 5000K (Philips Bright White)or 6500K (Daylight) bulbs. For what you want, having the smallest light in the industry is probably not a good thing.
> My preference is for Philips bulbs, available at HD.


Well that sucks.....good thing i haven't used them yet lol, maybe i can return them still and get the higher up ones.... Thanks for letting me know!! 

EDIT: Do you by any chance have a link for them on the HD or HH site? And are they spiral bulbs as well?...


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

Here are the Philips Daylight bulbs on the Home Depot webpage.

http://www.homedepot.ca/webapp/wcs/...artial&Ntx=mode+matchall&N=0&Ntk=P_PartNumber


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## MrCollings (Aug 13, 2010)

Darkblade48 said:


> Here are the Philips Daylight bulbs on the Home Depot webpage.
> 
> http://www.homedepot.ca/webapp/wcs/...artial&Ntx=mode+matchall&N=0&Ntk=P_PartNumber


Thanks!! I stopped by HD right before you posted that lol, but i ended up getting these ones... a little more powerful, but it should work.... right? 

http://www.homedepot.ca/webapp/wcs/...artial&Ntx=mode+matchall&N=0&Ntk=P_PartNumber

Thanks again!!

EDIT:

Here's the comparison chart between the ones you mentioned, and the ones i bought....just incase anybody else wanted an easy view of the differences...

http://www.homedepot.ca/webapp/wcs/...&prod2=914384&prod3=undefined&prod4=undefined


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## MrCollings (Aug 13, 2010)

Hey could anyone tell me if there is anything like this..

http://www.homedepot.ca/webapp/wcs/...artial&Ntx=mode+matchall&N=0&Ntk=P_PartNumber

That would work for tube lights?
(Specs being 32-36 in, 23watts, 6500k, something along those lines...)

would any of these work?.... (sorry, don't really know)

http://www.homedepot.ca/webapp/wcs/...artial&Ntx=mode+matchall&N=0&Ntk=P_PartNumber

http://www.homedepot.ca/webapp/wcs/...artial&Ntx=mode+matchall&N=0&Ntk=P_PartNumber

http://www.homedepot.ca/webapp/wcs/...artial&Ntx=mode+matchall&N=0&Ntk=P_PartNumber

I am now thinking i may want to use tubes....my shelves are 35 inches wide, and it would require a bazillion CFL's to fully light up each shelf on every rack..... Just thinking about it though, may stick to my previous idea though....


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

The CFL bulbs that you linked to should work fine. Of course, because they are stronger, you will be getting more light into your aquariums, meaning you may need to increase fertilization/CO2, depending on your eventual setup.

Also, note that CFL bulbs, while a cheaper alternative, also do not provide as even lighting as a fluorescent tube. This is because they are only a single point source of light, whereas a fluorescent tube would be able to provide even lighting.

For the lighting, the endcaps that you linked (the first two, anyway) appear to be OK for some fluorescent tubes. I did not really check their specifications, but they appear to be your general fluorescent tube endcaps.

Don't forget that you will also need ballasts to power your bulbs.


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## MrCollings (Aug 13, 2010)

Darkblade48 said:


> The CFL bulbs that you linked to should work fine. Of course, because they are stronger, you will be getting more light into your aquariums, meaning you may need to increase fertilization/CO2, depending on your eventual setup.
> 
> Also, note that CFL bulbs, while a cheaper alternative, also do not provide as even lighting as a fluorescent tube. This is because they are only a single point source of light, whereas a fluorescent tube would be able to provide even lighting.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the speedy reply yet again Darkblade48.
The fluorescent tube endcaps, do they need to be wired themselves? Or is there any way to make it like a normal plug like the cfl's socket adapter?

As I am not really an "expert" on wiring lights lol.......

I was thinking of making something like i have attempted to draw below lol...

[0 0] <- plug outlets (http://www.homedepot.ca/webapp/wcs/...artial&Ntx=mode+matchall&N=0&Ntk=P_PartNumber)
==== <- tube (http://www.homedepot.ca/webapp/wcs/...artial&Ntx=mode+matchall&N=0&Ntk=P_PartNumber)
------ <-casing (No idea yet...)
**** <-part of shelf


***********************
| [o===========0] |
----------------------

***********************
​
I just don't want to have to "wire" anything lol, rather use something to just plug into an extension cord....


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

The endcaps will likely just be bare (with wires sticking out), so they will require wiring.

These will need to be wired to a ballast, which will then need to be wired to a cord that will plug into the wall socket.

If you are not comfortable with electrical wiring, I would not recommend you undertake this project; getting shocked is not fun.


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## MrCollings (Aug 13, 2010)

Darkblade48 said:


> The endcaps will likely just be bare (with wires sticking out), so they will require wiring.
> 
> These will need to be wired to a ballast, which will then need to be wired to a cord that will plug into the wall socket.
> 
> If you are not comfortable with electrical wiring, I would not recommend you undertake this project; getting shocked is not fun.


Yahhh i don't think i really am comfortable with it ..... oh well...I'm sure i'll manage with the cfl's.... I have been shocked enough times in my life to learn to just not attempt to play with anything that involves electricity if i have no idea what the hell im doing lol....

But thanks again for the help!!


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## waj8 (Jun 30, 2010)

The CFLs are simple but they will need a diffuse reflector to be at all effective. That means making some kind of enclosure for the lamps under each shelf. Otherwise half the light will be lost. It looks like quite a project. For reflectors I would go with pre-painted aluminum flashing. You can order pre-bent from a roofing supply place.

CFLs are not ideal for any large lighting project. They are not especially efficient and do not lend themselves to advance reflector design. They are great on individual 5 and 10 gallon tanks where efficiency is not an issue and there is no real alternative. 4' linear t5s would have been much better. Unfortunately, it looks like you don't have the length. Maybe consider some dual lamp 3' fixtures with reflectors if you can find them. 

Unfortunately, most of those 3' fixtures are aquarium fixtures and rather pricey. For example, I just bought a high bay 6 lamp fixture with high quality reflectors. It included 6 54 watt lamps, ballasts, individual specular reflectors, wiring and sockets for $210. No way you can buy the individual components that cheaply and no way you can buy3' fixtures that cheaply. An equivalent amount of light in CFLs would be 20 23 watt lamps. That does not even take into account reflector efficiency or lamp life.

Maybe since the actual lit length of a 4' t5 is only about 44" you could somehow use them in your setup. If it wasn't for the length they would be ideal.


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