# Starting out Reefing...



## Pruss (Nov 25, 2014)

Hi there. I've been keeping freshwater tanks for over thirty years. Most of my tanks have been low(ish) tech planted tanks. 

I am enamoured by the beauty, complexity, and variability in reef tanks and want to get started.

Is it important to start small, to learn the basics of salty/reef maintenance before going to a large 100g or more setup? Or is it just as easy to learn in a big tank?

Thanks for your thoughts.

-- Pat


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## kookie_guy (Oct 15, 2014)

Pruss said:


> Hi there. I've been keeping freshwater tanks for over thirty years. Most of my tanks have been low(ish) tech planted tanks.
> 
> I am enamoured by the beauty, complexity, and variability in reef tanks and want to get started.
> 
> ...


The bigger the system, the more forgiving it will be, but also a lot more expensive for the initial setup. If you can successfully run a nano tank, a bigger tank will be no problem. If you screw something up in a big tank, there's that much more water to absorb/dissipate it. In a small tank, a screw up can equal a tank crash. Read read read, then read some more, and then when you wanna throw up from reading so much, go ahead and do it, because you have more reading to do, lol.


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## Pruss (Nov 25, 2014)

That jives with what I was thinking.

Love the forgiving nature of a larger tank... But that's a lot of input cost. Nanos look more like a razor's edge scenario; but also a helluva proving ground. Good thoughts on reading.

-- Pat


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## kookie_guy (Oct 15, 2014)

Pruss said:


> That jives with what I was thinking.
> 
> Love the forgiving nature of a larger tank... But that's a lot of input cost. Nanos look more like a razor's edge scenario; but also a helluva proving ground. Good thoughts on reading.
> 
> -- Pat


For what it's worth, I started out on a 29g biocube, and was very successful. Just take it easy, and don't over complicate it. I find that there's a lot of people over complicating this hobby. You don't need an automated system to take care of your tank for you. In my opinion, that takes some of the fun out of running the tank.


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## Pruss (Nov 25, 2014)

kookie_guy said:


> For what it's worth, I started out on a 29g biocube, and was very successful. Just take it easy, and don't over complicate it. I find that there's a lot of people over complicating this hobby. You don't need an automated system to take care of your tank for you. In my opinion, that takes some of the fun out of running the tank.


Thanks. Appreciate the grounded approach. I can see automation becoming really important in a large and complex reef system. But I, also, like to be hands on with tank management.

This all being said. It's hard not to want to skip ahead to the 100g+ tanks when there are deals to be had in the buy and sell thread or on Kijiji.

It's a good thing the basement is unfinished and I'm gun shy about putting large tanks on anything but poured concrete, or I might already have jumped into the deep end on a big reef.

-- Pat


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## kookie_guy (Oct 15, 2014)

If you can handle the cost of a big reef right off the bat, then I say do it. Especially with an unfinished basement where you can build a nice fish room and everything. Take your time, and do it right from the beginning. Yes it'll be more money, but it sucks having to buy things more than once.


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## altcharacter (Jan 10, 2011)

A good size to start with would be a 40g breeder with a 20g sump. A smaller tank is definitely more challenging to take care of and most people tend to give up on their 6g tanks after their first tank crash.

With something like a 40g you have more room to grow with your corals and livestock as well. That is another mistake alot of people make with smaller tanks. They'll get a 8g and then ram it with 30 frags within 3 months.

Even something like a 20g with a 10g sump is really nice to start with, but with the intent to upgrade.

Good luck!


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## kookie_guy (Oct 15, 2014)

altcharacter said:


> They'll get a 8g and then ram it with 30 frags within 3 months.


Or stick a couple tangs in it, lol.


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## majaxx (Mar 10, 2011)

My 2 cents:

i started with a biocube. very low startup. all in one.
it was good for about a year through the learning curve of saltwater.
I then went to a 35g tank with sump to learn about all the equipment and how a sump works. (plumbing, skimmer, return and my own lighting. ect)

then I got the idea of how everything works , how corals grow, what fish i can keep.
You will learn about different coral needs, fish needs ect.

So i started to look for something i want. I found a 70g 36x24x18 tank i loved the footprint. room for aquascaping. when i ran out of room for corals i upgraded again.

I now just upgraded to a 125.


All in one -> 
smaller tank with sump and my own equipment-> 
Then you will know what you want after a couple years. 

read! ask questions! were heer to help.


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## Pruss (Nov 25, 2014)

kookie_guy said:


> Or stick a couple tangs in it, lol.


So... just to be clear... this is a bad thing, right? 

I kid.

Something between 20g and 40g sounds like a reasonable starter tank for me to explore reefing. It also allows me to stub my toes and scrape my knees without kitting out a big tank.

Thanks for the advice gang.

-- Pat


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

always try to buy equipment which you will be able to use on the next tank.
I was in this story and it will save you a lot of money.

for example:

if you will go with 40G breeder and lets say 36"light, you will be able to use later this 40G as a sump for the bigger tank.
36" lights could be used on the 48" tank if you will hang them about 10" above the tank.
Bio cubes is experience and useless. In theory you can have 20 -40g tank and make ir "All in One"
media Reactors wiil go on the bigger tank also.
here is the one 25G from Aqua Inspiration (but could be any tank), I made All in one. Just made oveflow from $25 piece of acrylic. Pump, heater inside and here we have "biocube"?

http://gtaaquaria.com/forum/showthread.php?t=48685

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## fesso clown (Nov 15, 2011)

Best to cruise the classifieds and find a deal. There are plenty to be had all the time. Run potential purchases by us here in this thread. 
I would say 40-90 Gallons is a good starting point, I would start with a 90 if you have the space. 
I can't stress enough the importance of a sump to help you be successful right off the bat. 

Good luck and ask questions. Read stickies and build threads on RC (Reef Central) and this site. Read "Tank of the month" articles and copy what those buggers are doing. It's all actually pretty simple if you keep it simple and follow what the pros do.


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## Pruss (Nov 25, 2014)

sig said:


> always try to buy equipment which you will be able to use on the next tank.
> I was in this story and it will save you a lot of money.
> 
> for example:
> ...


I love the idea of starting with a kit that can be repurposed! Thanks for helping me think this way.

@fesso I am pretty much perpetually cruising want-ads for deals. But have to say that I'm a little gun-shy of going to a 90 right out of the gate. If I'm going to go that big, wouldn't I be better served by going the whole way to a 120g+ system and buy the whole kit and kaboodle from a hobbiest who is closing up shop?

-- Pat


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## fury165 (Aug 21, 2010)

sig said:


> always try to buy equipment which you will be able to use on the next tank.
> I was in this story and it will save you a lot of money.
> 
> for example:
> ...





fesso clown said:


> Best to cruise the classifieds and find a deal. There are plenty to be had all the time. Run potential purchases by us here in this thread.
> I would say 40-90 Gallons is a good starting point, I would start with a 90 if you have the space.
> I can't stress enough the importance of a sump to help you be successful right off the bat.
> 
> Good luck and ask questions. Read stickies and build threads on RC (Reef Central) and this site. Read "Tank of the month" articles and copy what those buggers are doing. It's all actually pretty simple if you keep it simple and follow what the pros do.





kookie_guy said:


> The bigger the system, the more forgiving it will be, but also a lot more expensive for the initial setup. If you can successfully run a nano tank, a bigger tank will be no problem. If you screw something up in a big tank, there's that much more water to absorb/dissipate it. In a small tank, a screw up can equal a tank crash. Read read read, then read some more, and then when you wanna throw up from reading so much, go ahead and do it, because you have more reading to do, lol.


All sound experienced advice from these three gentlemen.


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## Pruss (Nov 25, 2014)

@fury165 +1

Plenty of good advice so far. And a nice little to-do list for me with regards to research. I have to say, I'm plenty impressed with the level of decorum and downright good natured engagement on this forum.

I have been on other forums where a newbie question like the one I started this thread with would have resulted in flames.

Thanks to all of you for making this place so accommodating and supportive.

-- Pat


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## Addicted (Jan 1, 2014)

Welcome to the salty side, Pat.

Definitely a lot of great advice here. It's a great community - and it goes beyond the forums. There are a lot of great people in the GTA (from London to Bowmanville, and from downtown up to Barrie) who are passionate about the hobby and willing to lend a helping hand.

Cheers,
Mike


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## kookie_guy (Oct 15, 2014)

Pruss said:


> I have been on other forums where a newbie question like the one I started this thread with would have resulted in flames.
> 
> Thanks to all of you for making this place so accommodating and supportive.
> 
> -- Pat


Ahhh you must have accidentally visited aquariumpros, lol. I was on there for 2 days when first starting out. Then requested a non expiring self ban, lol.


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## Pruss (Nov 25, 2014)

kookie_guy said:


> Ahhh you must have accidentally visited aquariumpros, lol. I was on there for 2 days when first starting out. Then requested a non expiring self ban, lol.


Actually it was a forum for tobacco pipe smoking enthusiasts. Ask a simple question, and get flamed into oblivion. Who knew that pipe smokers could be so cantankerous!?! It's a meditative and restive past-time, isn't it? 

-- Pat


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## fury165 (Aug 21, 2010)

Pruss said:


> @fury165 +1
> 
> Plenty of good advice so far. And a nice little to-do list for me with regards to research. I have to say, I'm plenty impressed with the level of decorum and downright good natured engagement on this forum.
> 
> ...


LOL, it is early yet, the Trolls are still hibernating. Seriously though, this is a great community with lots of experienced people on all fronts.


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## Pruss (Nov 25, 2014)

Ok... so taking up the invitation to turn this thread into a living planning document for my first reef build I thought I'd start capturing a list of what I need to kit out my build.

Tank: I'm chatting with someone now about the purchase of a starfire 79g tank - 48"X19.6"X19.6" rimless
Stand: Matching stand, same manufacture as tank
Sump/Refugium:
Pumps:
Ato:
Skimmer:
Controller: 
Heaters:
Powerheads:
Reactors:
Lights:
Other:

I'm just starting research so will be populating the list above over time, but would appreciate any input folks have.

The tank I'm considering isn't drilled for a sump, and I know I'd like to get that done or do that myself. Is there any place locally that builds sump/refugiums? I'm thinking that I'd like to go for at least a 40g sump if not a little bigger... 55g? 

Thanks for the continued support folks.

-- Pat


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

check my thread. I am staring from scratch with 60G and sump. trying to post every step. 
with the good quality stuff ordered, i am already close to 2K and at least another 500 will be required

http://gtaaquaria.com/forum/showthread.php?t=135402

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## Pruss (Nov 25, 2014)

sig said:


> check my thread. I am staring from scratch with 60G and sump. trying to post every step.
> with the good quality stuff ordered, i am already close to 2K and at least another 500 will be required
> 
> http://gtaaquaria.com/forum/showthread.php?t=135402


Thanks Sig. I've subscribed to your thread. Looking forward to learning from you.

-- Pat


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

Pruss said:


> Thanks Sig. I've subscribed to your thread. Looking forward to learning from you.
> 
> -- Pat


what is it " *Tank 1 - 50g blackwater, low tech, planted. Cycling*." :

go we salt, enough playing games 

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## Pruss (Nov 25, 2014)

sig said:


> what is it " *Tank 1 - 50g blackwater, low tech, planted. Cycling*." :
> 
> go we salt, enough playing games


Hah!

I've been doing freshwater tanks for thirty years or so. This is a 50g corner tank that we've installed in my daughter's nursery. When thinking about wanting white noise and a night light, this seemed like the perfect finishing touch.

I like Amazon biotope tanks and have bred and reared a number of different Apistogramma, as well as kept large planted display tanks with Amazon community fishes.

Going reef is BRAND NEW to me, and will be a fun and exciting new adventure. It certainly seems like I'm in the right place to learn how to make a go of it.

-- Pat


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## Jiinx (Apr 5, 2012)

lol is Greg bothering you??  

He was one of the first salties I ever met and I'll always remember his advice. It's true..when you do it, do it right. And when you buy things, buy things that will last you the hobby. 

I remember when I was doing fw, I bought a Milwaukee co2 regulator. Blew out the first week. Then I got a custom built regulator and it was above and beyond what the milwaukee was.


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## Pruss (Nov 25, 2014)

Jiinx said:


> lol is Greg bothering you??


Far from it! I'm actually quite enjoying Greg's sense of humour and free advice.



-- Pat


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## Mikeylikes (Nov 22, 2013)

Welcome aboard Pruss!

These guys know jack 😉!

All kidding aside go as big as you can IMO. Of course you will have to balance that with how much your budget. If you are going to do it do it right. That's not to say setting up a nano isn't doing it right. Everyone gets "upgraditis" at some point. Just a matter of when. Don't rush in and buy cheap equipment as it will cost you just as much or more in the long run IMO. Save up. As someone stated earlier it makes your experience a little more forgiving and less frustrating.

I was a fresh water guy myself until I moved over to the dark side. My partner in crime Paul (Paulf757) and I ventured into building both our own tanks and sumps together. Was a great experience and the members of this board have been more than helpful and patient in answering the plethora of questions we've thrown out.


That reminds me. I need to update my build thread ....

Good luck!

Mikey


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## altcharacter (Jan 10, 2011)

I volunteer to donate your first frag! 

If you're looking into getting a tank and drilling it you have come to the right place! Shops like NAFB, AK, ARA, and Miracles will drill holes in your tank for you at a price. It's not that expensive, something like $25 a hole but the nice thing is you don't have to worry about breaking the tank.

On the other hand you could do it yourself and save money and back problems. It sucks to transport a 80g tank! It's fairly easy and there are quite a few of us that have done it ourselves with no or few problems. Beer helps also, in any step...

I'm in scarborough and if you ever want to drop by and talk shop give me a shout. I know a few of these guys have been to my place


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## fesso clown (Nov 15, 2011)

there are a couple RR (drilled) 90 G tanks on AP (aquarium Pros) cheap right now. 1 for $50 and 1 for $150. 
Just sayin'


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## Pruss (Nov 25, 2014)

Mikeylikes said:


> Welcome aboard Pruss!
> 
> These guys know jack &#128521;!
> 
> ...


Thanks Mikey. I've subscribed to Paul's thread, I'll have to go find yours now.

I'm looking at an 80g tank to start. I think that's a good chunk of real estate to cut my teeth on.

I look forward to learning from you and the others here.

-- Pat


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## Pruss (Nov 25, 2014)

altcharacter said:


> I volunteer to donate your first frag!
> 
> If you're looking into getting a tank and drilling it you have come to the right place! Shops like NAFB, AK, ARA, and Miracles will drill holes in your tank for you at a price. It's not that expensive, something like $25 a hole but the nice thing is you don't have to worry about breaking the tank.
> 
> ...


Done! I look forward to making a home for that frag!

Thanks for the tips on where to have the tank drilled. Do the same shops also fabricate overflows and sumps? It'd be nice to have that done in a single shop.

I'm in Ajax and work by Pearson, so I look forward to dropping some day to talk fish, tanks and having a cuppa. I'll bring the coffee or the beer...or both.

-- Pat


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## Pruss (Nov 25, 2014)

fesso clown said:


> there are a couple RR (drilled) 90 G tanks on AP (aquarium Pros) cheap right now. 1 for $50 and 1 for $150.
> Just sayin'


Great tip! But I've verbally committed to an 80g and stand combo, and in addition to being immensely happy with both I stand by my promises. I'll happily take a gander for skimmers, sumps, pumps and jets.

Cheers!

-- Pat


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## fesso clown (Nov 15, 2011)

If its the Starfire one you posted on the last page those are very nice dimensions, sounds like a nice tank. Needs to be drilled?


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## fesso clown (Nov 15, 2011)

Do a google image search for shallow rimless reef and find the Reef Central threads it will lead you to for some inspiration.


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## Pruss (Nov 25, 2014)

fesso clown said:


> Do a google image search for shallow rimless reef and find the Reef Central threads it will lead you to for some inspiration.


Very cool. Heading there now.

-- Pat


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## paulie (Mar 25, 2013)

Good luck Pat.

It's great fun frustrating yourself trying to figure out the salty side of husbandry!!

Hope you get your tank soon, and I would second the comments to research, buy quality, and buy it once.


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## Pruss (Nov 25, 2014)

*Research - Week 1 - Lighting*

Wow. That's where I need to start this post. Just... Wow. What a busy bee-hive of perspective, science, group-think and practice has gone into the debate of, "What lighting rig is best for reef keeping."

I've read a couple different 60+ page threads on lighting over on ReefCentral, watched a boat load of youtube videos, and scanned dozens of manufacturer's websites.

When I first decided to keep a reef I was 100% sure (without any understanding of why or implications) that I wanted a straight LED rig. I like the minimalist design of the fixtures, love the low power draw, and really like the variability and flexibility in programming output to the tank.

Now, having read the testimonials of reef keepers who have tried and used different rigs over many years, I think I'm converting to a hybrid lighting setup which would include either MH/T5 or T5/LED.

I would like to hear some of your stories of lighting wins and woes. Thanks for helping out a new guy.

For clarity, it looks like I'm going to be running a shallow rimless reef tank. Under 20" depth from surface to sand, and 48" long.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

-- Pat


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## fesso clown (Nov 15, 2011)

I am using Radions. Kind of the Cadillac of LED fixtures. I am seriously considering switching over to T5HO + LED supplement. 
If you do go t5HO ATI is the way to go, by far the best, their cooling system means longer life from the lamps. You want at least 6 bulbs.


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## Bullet (Apr 19, 2014)

Definitely suggest a quick google of Kessil brand LEDs 
Beautiful and all that I use


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## twobytwo (Oct 25, 2014)

I'm in a similar spot... Kept FW for awhile and now venturing into SW.
I got a Maxspect R420r for my tank (which I'm currently waiting on...)
320w 15000k - its a super sexy looking fixture and I'm really anxious to get it running on my 48x24x24 tank! If you research these, most sites list the previous versions.

I actually made a Craigslist purchase last summer which included 2 fixtures of 250MH and 4xT5HO. For me personally, the cost in electricity and bulb replacements plus heat generated were enough to sway me to LED, So I sold the fixtures. To each their own tho.

If you have space - I would look into the clearance pre-drilled tank with overflows at BigAls Scarborough... the 125g for $299 sounds like a steal.

Oh and another place for drilling is Reefquarium.


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## Crayon (Apr 13, 2014)

We run Vertex lights on two of our tanks and between the fact that right out of the box, the light includes royal blue, blue and white, it also has the multipad upgrades that allow you to add red, warm white, green, UV and a different blue. The programming flexibility of this light is awesome, as is the technical support right from the west coast of Canada.
It is a pricy thing, but we have never regretted the purchases.


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## notclear (Nov 5, 2011)

^ same here. I have been using my Vertex light for over 4 years


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## Pruss (Nov 25, 2014)

*Tank Lighting*

Thanks to everyone who chimed in with an opinion on tank lighting.

The short survey of responses above suggests to me that most of you are primarily using LEDs.

While I'd love a Vertex setup, there's no way I'm going to be able to shell out the capital investment required to by that fixture.

The Maxspect lighting system could be in my price range, but I'd be a lot happier in a sub-$500 camp. Do any of you have any experience with ReefRadiance lights? I'm considering picking up one of these http://reefradiance.com/dm-165p1.html and then rigging a two bulb T5HO light to complement the LEDs.

Thoughts?

Happy Friday,

-- Pat


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

Pruss said:


> Wow.
> 
> For clarity, it looks like I'm going to be running a shallow rimless reef tank. Under 20" depth from surface to sand, and 48" long.
> 
> ...


Do not go rimless. Add Euro Brace for another $100. 
when clean glass, etc will create water splashes.

I found for myself that there is much more reasons to put hands in the SW tank in comparison to FW. 
This activity always had some water out of the tank if not careful.
No more rimless tanks for me

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## Pruss (Nov 25, 2014)

sig said:


> Do not go rimless. Add Euro Brace for another $100.
> when clean glass, etc will create water splashes.
> 
> I found for myself that there is much more reasons to put hands in the SW tank in comparison to FW.
> ...


Thanks for the tip, Sig!

-- Pat


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## Mikeylikes (Nov 22, 2013)

Ditto for Sig's comment.

Go rimless for the extra $$. I have mine eurobraced and as Sig noted when I'm cleaning the glass with my scrubber water splashes quite a bit. If it weren't for the brace I'd have saltwater stains all over the floor wall !

Eurobrace also allows more flexibility to have tidal waves as water movement. Water won't be spilling over .. just sayin'.


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## Pruss (Nov 25, 2014)

Mikeylikes said:


> Ditto for Sig's comment.
> 
> Go rimless for the extra $$. I have mine eurobraced and as Sig noted when I'm cleaning the glass with my scrubber water splashes quite a bit. If it weren't for the brace I'd have saltwater stains all over the floor wall !
> 
> Eurobrace also allows more flexibility to have tidal waves as water movement. Water won't be spilling over .. just sayin'.


I'm guessing that having bracing added is something I can have done by whomever does my drilling for the sump?

-- Pat


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

Pruss said:


> I'm guessing that having bracing added is something I can have done by whomever does my drilling for the sump?
> 
> -- Pat


never buy a tank and do drilling later, until it something cheap. Nobody will reimburse for cracked aquarium. The person who build, should drill and install eurobarce

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## Pruss (Nov 25, 2014)

sig said:


> never buy a tank and do drilling later, until it something cheap. Nobody will reimburse for cracked aquarium. The person who build, should drill and install eurobarce


I'm buying a used tank, Sig, not having a new tank made. The tank is a 79g star fire, rimless that isn't drilled. I'm still debating about how to drill it, but if I'm going to go with a sump/refugium and add bracing that's going to be an aftermarket mod. 

-- Pat


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## Mikeylikes (Nov 22, 2013)

Sorry Pruss. Meant to say don't go rimless without eurobracing.

If you are drilling after you have purchased tank there is a risk it will crack which you will have to accept.


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## fesso clown (Nov 15, 2011)

I love my rimless tank. Sure I get a few splashes now and then when putting and taking my arms out but I had that with a braced tank too. As for cleaning I just go a little slower with the Magfloat.

I think they (rimless) look much nicer than eurobraced. BUt that's personal.

Have you decided how the tank will be drilled? I am gonna suggest a Herbie Overflow. Extra silent and extra safe.

Read here, this is the best guild on the Herbie I have found:
http://gmacreef.com/herbie-overflow-reef-tank-plumbing-method-basics/

With your size tank you can just do 3/4 holes and you will still get almost 1000 GPH at full siphon. Also It is easier to match your siphon to your return pump than trying to find a pump to match your drain.


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## Pruss (Nov 25, 2014)

fesso clown said:


> I love my rimless tank. Sure I get a few splashes now and then when putting and taking my arms out but I had that with a braced tank too. As for cleaning I just go a little slower with the Magfloat.
> 
> I think they (rimless) look much nicer than eurobraced. BUt that's personal.
> 
> ...


I'll check that links this afternoon. I had been leaning towards a coast to coast acrylic overflow box in the tank and then having the tank drilled for a beananimal.

-- Pat


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## Jiinx (Apr 5, 2012)

I can't wait to see your build, Pat 

How is your light research going? Any exciting developments or found anything you think you may want to get?


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## Pruss (Nov 25, 2014)

Jiinx said:


> I can't wait to see your build, Pat
> 
> How is your light research going? Any exciting developments or found anything you think you may want to get?


Hey Jinx! I'm reading a tonne, and watching a lot of YouTube videos at the moment. Right now I'm thinking about getting one of these: http://reefradiance.com/dm-165p1.html and mounting it in a DIY fixture with four T5HO lights. Option B is to just get two of the DM-165p+ lights.

For movement I'm thinking about the Maxspect Gyre 150.

But frankly, I need to wait until I get the tank and stand in place, before I start piecing things together.

In the meantime, research and the planted community tank I'm journaling here: http://gtaaquaria.com/forum/showthread.php?p=877354#post877354 will have to suffice.

-- Pat


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## paulie (Mar 25, 2013)

Most glaziers/manufacturers can bond in your eurobrace, and they can drill your tank too. You do assume the risk with a used tank but I wouldn't stress too much. I drilled several holes through my last tank (1/2" starfire) and that was after several beers, so they probably will do it right.

If you are going full width overflow, I imagine they could bond that too!! 

I think the brace is important, as per others that it prevents water splashes. I went for a slim brace as it allows easy cleaning but still prevents some of the splashing if not all. My wife however wishes it was a little wider as I am always getting yelled at for watermarks on the glass!!!

Best of luck, and cant wait for your tank to begin!


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## fesso clown (Nov 15, 2011)

FYI ( you may know this already) but a Herbie drain is a modified Bean Animal it cuts out the 3rd redundant emergency line. 
Either way you are on the right track drain wise IMO.


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## explor3r (Mar 14, 2010)

Don't listen to any of them.. go big or go home just joking but my two cents start as big as you can and the end of the day you will be happy you did..
As you can see you will get all the help you need and advice here in the forums GTAA is the most friendly forum you even find ... good luck


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## Pruss (Nov 25, 2014)

paulie said:


> Most glaziers/manufacturers can bond in your eurobrace, and they can drill your tank too. You do assume the risk with a used tank but I wouldn't stress too much. I drilled several holes through my last tank (1/2" starfire) and that was after several beers, so they probably will do it right.
> 
> If you are going full width overflow, I imagine they could bond that too!!
> 
> ...


Thanks. I think I'm going to contract the bonding of the overflow and drilling of my tank. I see a couple folks referenced here on the boards who do this kind of work, and will reach out once I have the tank in hand. I'll probably also have the same shop add baffles to my breeder/sump.

Based on what I've read above, it sounds like the reason folks are recommending adding bracing is to minimize mess during cleaning and maintenance.

Am I really asking for trouble if I don't add bracing? I prefer the clean lines and look of a rimless tank, and would only add bracing if there was a concern about structure.



fesso clown said:


> FYI ( you may know this already) but a Herbie drain is a modified Bean Animal it cuts out the 3rd redundant emergency line.
> Either way you are on the right track drain wise IMO.


I had read that the beananimal was a modified herbie, but that's splitting hairs. Thanks again for sharing the link and info. I'm having fun designing overflows and plumbing on my daily commute.



explor3r said:


> Don't listen to any of them.. go big or go home just joking but my two cents start as big as you can and the end of the day you will be happy you did..
> As you can see you will get all the help you need and advice here in the forums GTAA is the most friendly forum you even find ... good luck


I think 80g is a good place for me to start. If I can do that without blowing my bank account, and learn the basics, then I'll build a big tank into my basement when we get around to finishing it.

Thanks everyone for sharing your opinions, advice and for the encouragement.

-- Pat


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## altcharacter (Jan 10, 2011)

Bean animal and Herbie are both modified dursos. If you want a silent and fool proof drain I would look into doing a Herbie with dual stockman's


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## Mikeylikes (Nov 22, 2013)

there's a picture of my Herbie coast to coast (almost) overflow on my build post for what its worth ..

http://www.gtaaquaria.com/forum/showthread.php?t=104986


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## Pruss (Nov 25, 2014)

Mikeylikes said:


> there's a picture of my Herbie coast to coast (almost) overflow on my build post for what its worth ..
> 
> http://www.gtaaquaria.com/forum/showthread.php?t=104986


Thanks for the link. I had been digging around for your build thread but hadn't found it yet.

Your overflow and drain is pretty much what I am thinking for my build. It really helps to be able to see how you've rigged yours to wrap my head around plumbing.

Cheers,

-- Pat


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## Mikeylikes (Nov 22, 2013)

NP. Very happy with how it turned out. Self priming and runs dead silent.


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## Dax (Sep 29, 2010)

I've probably got the simplest setup of anybody here and you're welcome to check it out. The whole thing (120g mixed reef) runs with only 2 LED light fixtures, 2 heaters, 2 powerheads, and a HOB skimmer. I don't recommend going my route, but since you are new to SW, I figure you could benefit from seeing both ends of the setup spectrum. I'm about 15 minutes up the road from Pearson if you ever want to take me up on my offer.


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## Pruss (Nov 25, 2014)

Hey there folks. It's been a little while since I updated this. My apologies.

I'm excited to say that I'll ge picking up my tank and stand on Sunday.

I'll update with photos, but I can't wait.

In the meantime, I've been doing a lot of research on the other system components I'll need as well as trying to figure out how to rig the overflow.

As mentioned before, I would like to go coast to coast with the overflow and also rig a beananimal system.

I quite like this design. I'm not a fan of all the right angles in his plumbing but like his overflow, drain lines and return plumbing. What do you guys think?






-- pat


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## Pruss (Nov 25, 2014)

*Tank? Check. Stand? Check.*

First, special thanks go out to Jiinx for passing along her tank to me. Jiinx, I am amazed at how clean the tank and stand are. I've purchased a fair few tanks on Kijiji and Craigslist, and never have I lucked into a tank so clean. Thank you.

With the tank safely in hand, I can now start measuring and drawing up the overflow and sump.

Here's the tank and stand:


It's a 79g starfire.

I'm thinking about drilling it for a beananimal as shown in the YouTube video in my previous post.

Thoughts?

Thanks for reading,

-- Pat


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## Pruss (Nov 25, 2014)

*Pressing Pause*

Thanks to all of you, who have offered advice, and considered opinions to me on reefing. I've spent the last two months educating myself about what it takes to run a successful reef tank; and I've decided that now isn't the time for me to do so.

I travel for work, sometimes for up to three weeks at a time, and multiple times throughout the year. While my wife would be happy to help keep the tank up and running, we have an infant at home who takes all of our time and managing a baby and a reef at the same time would be too much for one of us to handle. This would mean risk to the reef, and potential heartbreak if we got behind on upkeep. This is an emotional and financial burden we can't take/make at the moment.

So I've decided to take this tank in another direction. Look for a build in the "Discus" section of the freshwater boards sometime soon.

-- Pat

PS - I'm not saying I'm not going salty... I'm just not going there right now.


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## Jiinx (Apr 5, 2012)

Very exciting about the direction you're taking your tank. Whatever it is that you're going to do, it has to be something you enjoy and not feel like a chore  Saltwater is, to me, harder to maintain! And so much more equipment....

I'm looking forward to seeing your tank in the Discus section


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