# Pleco = DEAD!



## exoskeletal (Oct 12, 2009)

So I just got my 50 gal up and running about a week ago.. did a proper fishless cycle before putting in the Frontosa..

About a day after the cycle, i put a little 2" common pleco in there. He seemed to be doing fine.. I gave him a few algae wafers in the beginning but he ignored them so I took them out before they decayed.

The frontosa are already in there and loving it!

Today... He's dead! He was laying upside down on the substrate, looked like he had either started to decompose or the fronts were picking at him. Could this be?

Was he killed by the fronts, or maybe a lack of food? I am going to go and get a test kit today. 

I hope my fronts are okay.. thought pleco's were pretty hardy?

any thoughts?


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## gucci17 (Oct 11, 2007)

Sorry to hear...but I doubt the fronts did him in.

Best bet is to test the water.

How long was your fishless cycle? You measured the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels? How are you sure it was complete if you did not have a test kit in the first place?

Where did this pleco come from?

Is there any way for you to put the fronts in a safe tank while you figure out what may have killed your pleco in the first place?


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## AquaNeko (Jul 26, 2009)

I've heard that before you put a pleco in that it's best to have some slight fuzzy algae growing on the tank walls first so that when you introduce the pleco into the tank if they don't go for your flake foods they can go for your tank walls.

Perhaps the pleco was stressed from the move to your tank? Bad stock from LFS? Water perimeters would help.


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## Cory (May 2, 2008)

Common plecos are a confusing lot because a lot of species are sold under that name. While they may be very similar, there are some differences between the varieties that can cause problems. If you go for another "common pleco" get it IDd on this forum ameekplec is a great person to ask pleco questions. Once you know exactly the type you can tend to its needs better. Some of the "commons" prefer meaty foods to algae. My 7" goldspot used to eat shrimp pellets primarily before I let him go and he thrived on them. He did also eat up all of the green algae that had been in the QT tank when I first got him though. Probably nothing wrong with your tank, and it probably wasn't feeding either. Most fish can go a LONG time without food like other cold blooded species. Chances are, (especially if you got it from Big Al's) that the fish was sick to begin with.


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## bluekrissyspikes (Apr 16, 2009)

you set up a new tank and cycled it in a week?  That's pretty amazing unless you used the filter off an already established tank or something.


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## Cory (May 2, 2008)

I think he meant the tank was stocked as of a week ago and that the cycling went on before that. I guess though that if stocking was done too heavily too fast it could have overwhelmed the filter. Test the water and you'll know for sure.


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## bluekrissyspikes (Apr 16, 2009)

oh /: well then, i feel like a dork.



Cory said:


> I think he meant the tank was stocked as of a week ago and that the cycling went on before that. I guess though that if stocking was done too heavily too fast it could have overwhelmed the filter. Test the water and you'll know for sure.


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## exoskeletal (Oct 12, 2009)

bluekrissyspikes said:


> you set up a new tank and cycled it in a week?  That's pretty amazing unless you used the filter off an already established tank or something.


I actually used 75% water from my other tank. Avoiding a full cycle.

The rest was RO water which I'm assuming it wouldn't take long to be safe.

I actually bought the pleco from Pet Smart. Bad move, I'm sure it was just a sick fish.

I will be contacting them tomorrow to get my refund. I'm certain I did all necessary precautions before putting the pleco in, except waiting for algae to build it.

I'll wait to see some algae before I replace him,

Thanks guys.


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## gucci17 (Oct 11, 2007)

exoskeletal said:


> I actually used 75% water from my other tank. Avoiding a full cycle.
> 
> The rest was RO water which I'm assuming it wouldn't take long to be safe.
> 
> ...


Not to sound like an a$$ but using water from an established tank doesn't mean your tank will be cycled though. Unless you did as Bluekrissyspikes and used a filter from an established tank, I don't know how you cycled your tank.

I think you need to provide everyone with more details step by step from day one. That way we can provide you with better answers rather than guessing.

Hope I don't come off the wrong way.


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## Hitch (Apr 26, 2009)

I agree, water is just that..water...nothing els. the definition of cycling in that there are enough bacteria built up in the substrate and the bio filter so that they can remove the harmful nitrogen from the water. Ammonia is released by the animals as well as decomposing food/plant matter, this is toxic to the fish (which is the reason why your pleco died, but ill get into that later). The bacteria in the filter will break the ammonia down to nitrite, which is still harmful, then nitrite to nitrate, which is the least harmful of the bunch. Most tanks are not equipt with nitrate removal, that why weekly water changes are done to manually remove the nitrate build up. So the only way to fast cycle a tank is to remove the filter from an already estabolish tank (ie 2months or older) and run it in your new tank with new water.

The water that you remove from your other tank did nothing but actually add toxicity in the form of nitrates and other contaminants into the tank. You would have prob be better off just adding 100% treated tap water.

Also, why are you using RO water? your Frontosas are africans...so they like harder water. Besides, the frontosal and pleco are both ok in Toronto water without any added RO water hardener.

Anywho, back to the dead pleco. Due to the fact that your *filter* doesnt have the necessary bacteria build up to remove the ammonia and nitrite fast and efficiently, the ammonia in that tank will be building up like no tomorrow. With built up ammonia, the fish will be slowly poisoned by ammonia and one visible behavioural change is running to the surface of the tank (ammonia affects their gills, so to them they think there is low aeration, hence swimming to the top). If the ammonia continues to build up, this is cause death and the pleco will just simply fall down and generally land on its back.

This to me is the most obvious reason of death from the info given, although there is also other possibilities such as bad acclimitazation (less likely as common plecos are extremely hardy and if it was acclimitization, you would see death in the first 24-36 hours.), of course there is other possibilities of infections and what not, but again less likely.

Do you have a water test kit? If you do, test the water right away and tell us the results. Hopefully our understanding of what you did to cycle the tank is wrong...which will be told by the test results....cus if we are right, your other fish are in serious danger.

also, dont just rely on the algae build up on the tank to feed the pleco...this would usually result in starvation and death. Common plecos are pigs when it comes to eating so you would need to feed them espetically with wafers and such.

lastly, since your water right now has 25% RO water, which makes your tank water softer then the Toronto tap water, you need to be extremely careful when you add new fish (since they mostlikley come from Toronto water tanks), you will also need to extrmemly careful when you change water and do top offs (since you are now playing with the water chemistry, and the last thing you want is to do a water change that changes the chemistry of the water and cause tank crash.)


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

Your fish died because you didn't cycle your tank properly.


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## twoheadedfish (May 10, 2008)

well, let's see some water test results anyways. wouldn't hurt to make sure.


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## Cory (May 2, 2008)

Ahh yeah, if you just used tank water from an established tank and put the pleco in right away there's a good chance it was toxic water that killed it. There is some beneficial bacteria in the water column but not nearly in the quantities found in filter media which is a highly aerobic surface for bacterial colonization. Plecos are notorious poopers, although one wouldn't dirty a 50 gal too fast. It's really hard to gauge time frames etc. from the information you've provided and I obviously misunderstood what you wrote the first time. More information will help get your problem properly diagnosed. Anyways, once the frontosas went in they could have added a good deal of waste into the water and you didn't mention whether any h20 changes were done. (It is a good idea to do at very minimum 25% weekly when setting up a new tank and adding fish. 25% 2 or 3 times a week is better.) 

Don't know how many frontosas went in but they may be in danger too so I'd get the water tested quick. If it was toxic water as it's starting to sound like the pleco was likely already stressed as was indicated by its lack of appetite and that's why it perished while the frontosas haven't. You may as well get your refund anyways if it's still under their guarantee if they have one, but I would wait to get any new fish until you have the tank sorted out.


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## AquaNeko (Jul 26, 2009)

Something of a tip I got passed recently, find out what the Petstore is feeding the pleco and find out what time they feed them. Also find out when that store restocks their fish and show up at feeding time 1-2 days before their restocking day and watch the plecos eat and determine if they are all eating the food and which looks the strongest one and pick that one. If they're there for a week they pretty much out lasted any stressed out or weaker plecos that probably passed on early in their shipment.


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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

Just a note, while there are bacteria in the water and gravel. It depends on what kind of filtration you are running. To put it simply. If there are enough bacteria in the water to filter the water. Nobody would buy a UGF or a filter. We would all run bare tanks.
If you are running a UGF, then you can actually jump start another tank by moving 1/2 of the gravels over to the new tank. But if you are running a filter, then the gravels are pretty dead. It's the filter that has to be moved over.

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## exoskeletal (Oct 12, 2009)

SO..

Tested the water guys, few days ago, everything is awesome. The Fronts are superbly happy.. 

I went back to the LFS where I bought the plec.. and half of his brothers and sisters were dead in the tank that he came from. Sigh. 

Why do people try to keep fish and sell them when they don't take care of them? Waste of time and fishy life 

Thanks for the concern and advice guys!!


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## exoskeletal (Oct 12, 2009)

Chris S said:


> Your fish died because you didn't cycle your tank properly.


Sorry Chris, but you're wrong. My tank was cycled properly and everything is how it should be.


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

exoskeletal said:


> So I just got my 50 gal up and running about *a week ago.. did a proper fishless cycle* before putting in the Frontosa..


A 'proper' fishless cycle takes a long time to do - a lot more than a week. And like was said before, the old tank water contributes nothing but water.


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## exoskeletal (Oct 12, 2009)

ameekplec. said:


> A 'proper' fishless cycle takes a long time to do - a lot more than a week. And like was said before, the old tank water contributes nothing but water.


Read it again - A week prior to writing that, the tank was up and running. Doesn't mean a week before writing that, I put the water in.

Yes - I did use water from a previous tank which doesn't contain proper active bacteria but it is conditioned (no chloramine, no chlorine)

But I also did a fishless cycle after using the water from the previous tank, for almost two weeks.

THEN a week later, I posted this!

Sorry to have confused you.


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Two weeks is still short for a fishless cycle. A fishless cycle typically takes people a month or more to complete - two weeks is a normal timeframe for me when I set up a new tank with plants, a scoop of old gravel and a mature filter.


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## exoskeletal (Oct 12, 2009)

ameekplec. said:


> Two weeks is still short for a fishless cycle. A fishless cycle typically takes people a month or more to complete - two weeks is a normal timeframe for me when I set up a new tank with plants, a scoop of old gravel and a mature filter.


I was using old gravel. And by mature filter I'm assuming you mean one that's been used for a while? My filter is not new, and I tested water parameters before putting in any fish, and they were safe.

Different sized tanks with different gravel, decor, filters, rocks, wood, etc will fluctuate time frames that make water safe for fish.


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

meh, sometimes stuff just dies, but sounds like the rest of the batch didn't fare too well either.

Just curious as to why you used RO water for the fronts? I would have used the waste water for them, considering they like that harder water.


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## exoskeletal (Oct 12, 2009)

ameekplec. said:


> meh, sometimes stuff just dies, but sounds like the rest of the batch didn't fare too well either.
> 
> Just curious as to why you used RO water for the fronts? I would have used the waste water for them, considering they like that harder water.


To be honest I used it because I didn't know that the Frontosa liked such hard water. I just thought it would, by default, be the safest untreated water to put in. The hardness has panned out now. Good to know for the future though, thanks!


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

The waste water of a RO unit is just as "clean" as the RO water as it all goes through the micron filters and carbon filters first anyhow.

Anyways, hopefully they do well


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## KhuliLoachFan (Mar 8, 2008)

The only fishless cycling method that I trust is to use a fully cycled sponge from one HOB filter, and pop it into your new tank's filter. Or move the whole filter over, after you've run two HOBs in parallel on a very old tank (>1 year stable), take the old one and move it to the new tank.

less than 5% of your biological filter's biomass will be in the "water column" (used tankwater) and 10% will be in the gravel, leaving 85% in your filter sponge and filter media.

So the only portable sort of biofilter for fast cycling a tank, is your fully-seasoned filter, or sponge. I use AquaClear AC500s for this reason. I run a pair of sponges instead of using the biomedia bag, and then when I start a new tank, I take one of the giant sponges and use that with the new tank.

Should be testing water parameters DAILY on a new tank even if you used an old filter/sponge to get going faster. And the bioload on a pleco is HUGE so you'd probably get quite the ammonia spike if you put him in and feed him right away. I would rather underfeed than overfeed a pleco right after moving him. And test for ammonia daily or twice a day.

W


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