# Proposed 20gal tank setup:



## alc (Jun 19, 2006)

I'm totally new to fishkeeping, and I was hoping some of you might comment on what I think I'll go with:

20G tank:

6 Harlequin Rasboras
6 Neon Tetras 
3 Pygmy Corys

These are all schooling fish that are small and will not grow much larger, meaning I won't have too much danger of breaking the 1" of fish:1 gallon of water rule.

I think I might try to make a Java Moss wall for the backdrop of my aquarium. Other than that, plastic plants. Here's my reasoning: Live plants add another factor of complexity, and I might be overwhelmed by the addition of too many different plants and their needs. Java moss, I hear, is incredibly hardy and on top of creating an attractive back drop, will help control algae by competing for nutrients. So I get algae control without too much of the hassle.

I do have a question or two, though:

What's with shrimp? Do they serve some useful function to an aquarium other than aesthetics? Will shrimp eat my live plants?

I've heard some controversy about under-gravel filtration systems. What are your thoughts on the debate?

-alc


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## Plant Crazy (Mar 24, 2006)

That sounds like a good mix of fish, and they definitely won't overload your tank.

Amano shrimp will graze on certain types of alage. These shrimp were popularized by Takashi Amano, and he liberally used them in his tanks to help keep the algae under control. Another more colourful shrimp are cherry red shrimp. They're slightly smaller than amano shrimp, however they don't really graze on algae... they just look pretty. Crystal red shrimp are another type of 'decorative' shrimp which also don't feed on alage. The shrimp that I've listed will not eat your live plants.

There's an entire webforum dedicated to freshwater shrimp for aquaria at:
http://www.shrimpnow.com/

As for undergravel filtration (UGF), I've never used it. With a planted tank, the plants act as great natural filters (removing ammonia, nitrate, and utilizing nutrients in the mulm), and with regular water changes, there shouldn't be a need for UGF. I think that the UGF may be a benefit for a fish only tank.


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## Pablo (Mar 27, 2006)

The day of the undergravel filter has passed. Forget it.
As for your fish choices, that's fine, but you're realllly understocked. The 1" of fish per gallon rule is about as true as fluoride being good for you.

a 6" oscar and a 6" Denison barb may be the same length- but the oscar will consume as much as 10X the amount of food in a day as the denison barb. Also the oscar weighs more and has a much heavier body.

Further complicating things is the fact that many fish that look exactly the same proportionally (ie whiteclouds and neons) eat completely different amounts of food- so if the neons eat 4x what the white clouds do- are the white clouds 1/4"? See what I mean? Its a crock.

A tank with two 12" plecos (24" of fish... whatever that is) might be totally overstocked, whereas you could put fifty 1" neons in there and have maybe 1/6th at most of the bioload the supposedly lesser inchage of plecos produced.

Ok. SOOOO- screw the 1" of fish thing screw the UGF. You'll want some decent lighting and a co2 injection system if you want anything decent. Otherwise you'll have a "decaying tank" rather than a "planted tank". You can get a Hagen co2 system that comes with these packets and you just add sugar and water. Its like $40 and it will do a 20G nicely. Comes with a bubble ladder. Lighting wise one of the more affordable options would be two 24" T5 double strip lights from Coralife (available at menagerie). This would run you about $115 for the two. Thats more than enough light for all but the most demanding plants. 

As per substrate- the most affordable one is Seachem Fluorite. You will want to use a specialized planted tank substrate. Laterite is best but quite expensive. There are also several other brands available.


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## alc (Jun 19, 2006)

Everything I've read agrees with your assessment of UGF's, Pablo.

As for stocking an aquarium, I really wish there were some guidelines around other than the 1" of fish to a gallon rule. It does seem a little conservative. Are there any ways to know how stocked is 'fully stocked' without increasing the load a few fish at a time and culling off the last few? 

I reckon my stocking will go like this:
Java Moss
Jungle Val
2 Bolivian Rams
3 Pygmy Corys
6 Fancy Guppies
8 Cardinal Tetras

I wonder if I'll really need such intense lighting or CO2 injection to keep my tank healthy. From what I've read, Jungle val and Java moss are very hardy and shouldn't require such an elaborate set-up. Though since I will be adding jungle vals to the substrate, I'll have to get a richer gravel - flourite sounds like a good recommendation. 

How many times did you change your mind when you thought about which fish to buy? =\


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## Pablo (Mar 27, 2006)

alc said:


> Everything I've read agrees with your assessment of UGF's, Pablo.
> 
> As for stocking an aquarium, I really wish there were some guidelines around other than the 1" of fish to a gallon rule. It does seem a little conservative. Are there any ways to know how stocked is 'fully stocked' without increasing the load a few fish at a time and culling off the last few?
> 
> ...


Well you sound like youre quite new to aquariums. Two Bolivian Rams? Nope. Bolivians are too hard to sex. You'd likely end up with 2 females or males. 20G is really almost too small for Bolivians. They move around a lot sometimes and chase eachother a long way. Scrap that idea. Or, alternatively, only get ONE. Thats ok.

Dont get guppies- unless theyre all the same sex. You'll have lots more of them than you wanted. The nicest ones you can get are Endlers. Get a bunch of males. Id go with more like 10 and 10 for schooling fish. 3 Pygmy corys you'll never even see. Get 6. OR get a couple of big corys.

You WILL need co2. Once Java moss reaches about 1" thick without co2 the bottom dies. Your Val will be nasty and brown too. I suggest you consider changing the val out for java fern as it is more managable.

Make sure you learn how to thatch Java moss and tie it down properly.

Again do you want a planted tank or a crappy tank?
Its a 20G. Spend the friggin $160 on the lights and co2

is this your first tank by the way?

and don't do a java moss wall. Its less manageable than you might think. What you want to do is the rolling hill effect with java moss on rocks. I can show you how to do it. Also- there IS A RULE for stocking tanks.

There is a Nitrogen compound called "Nitrate" (NO3)
Basically, you can have as many fish as are comfortable in your tank, while not pushing your NO3 beyond acceptable limits, not overloading your biofilter (as evidenced by both a climb above 0PPM of Nitrite and ammonia in a cycled tank and/or that slight "dead fish smell" from an overloaded biofilter. And of course, you don't want to have fish breathing more oxygen than you have- or the level of dissolved oxygen goes down, your fish gasp at the top, and your biofilter starts to die off because it cant oxydize nitrogen compounds.

I dont recommend a beginner heavily stock a tank- but realistically in a very well planted 20G with co2 you could EEEEAAASIIILLLYY put like 50 neons.


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## Plant Crazy (Mar 24, 2006)

alc said:


> I wonder if I'll really need such intense lighting or CO2 injection to keep my tank healthy. From what I've read, Jungle val and Java moss are very hardy and shouldn't require such an elaborate set-up. Though since I will be adding jungle vals to the substrate, I'll have to get a richer gravel - flourite sounds like a good recommendation.


You could try Flourish Excel at first, without going with yeast CO2. It does get expensive after awhile, although with a 20g, it shouldn't be prohibitive. I agree with Pablo, in that Coralife T5s for lighting, or power compacts, would be the way to go for lighting. Fluorite or Eco-complete substrate would be great.


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## kweenshaker (Mar 11, 2006)

You should look at german blue rams, rather than bolivians. They're easier to sex and do well in community tanks (I've kept them with all kinds of fish for years.)


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## Pablo (Mar 27, 2006)

kweenshaker said:


> You should look at german blue rams, rather than bolivians. They're easier to sex and do well in community tanks (I've kept them with all kinds of fish for years.)


Its not that bolivians are hard to sex once you know what you're looking for. There's a significant morphological difference in the body shape that most people just don't know how to pick up.

The last thing I'd recommend to a beginner are the more delicate mikrogeophagus like ramirezi. its an easy one to kill and super inbred.

Bolivians wont even eat a 0.5" Amano shrimp- so theyre about as community safe as it gets.

A WARNING- Bolivian Rams tolerate acidic pH poorly. If you go below about 6.6 you're going to have problems. They will not readily spawn below 7.2.

And dont start with one thing to "see if it will work" and then switch. You can't do a good planted tank without co2- unless you want like 3 anubias and 2 java ferns and a crypt. And what if you wait until your plants look crap to switch?

Like the guy at Extreme Marine said (This is now my Modus Operandi for fish keeping)

"DO IT RIGHT OR DONT F***ING DO IT!"


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