# Making the jump to Saltwater...



## homy77 (Aug 24, 2013)

Need your help/advice.



So, I have been running a 120 gallon high tech planted aquarium for about 5 years now with lots of success



my plants have always done very well and my fish and shrimp are also doing very well.



My wife has finally given me the ok to make the move to salt water, which took me by surprise, but I'm ecstatic.



So, I know that everything in the tank needs to go, tank scrubbed and cleaned thoroughly.



I have a 4 bulb T5HO fixture which I'm sure I can use.



i'll be buying a HOB overflow since I'm not too keen on having someone drill my tank.



i'll be buying a sump and protein skimmer, return pump.



I currently have an ehiem canister and fluval canister which I think I can use, but not sure for what since i'll have a sump



I also know i'll need to buy a power head or two



i'll need live rock, substrate (crushed coral or some other suggestion)



can anyone give me advice on anything else that is essential vs nice to have, if I've left anything out that I'm definitely missing, or do I more or less have this right?



help is appreciated.





thanks


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## sizzle (Feb 21, 2016)

Welcome to the dark side! 

I think you've named most of the essentials. 

Most important of all IMHO, is patience. All the best equipment in the world won't make a difference without patience (proper research etc). 

Good luck!


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## cb1021 (Sep 21, 2009)

good luck

good luck


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## carl (Feb 11, 2010)

Quarantine all fish in copper or chloroquine phosphate for external parasites


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## aspiro (Jan 28, 2015)

*good luck*

good luck, see you on the darkside, hopefully in the summer 

In the mean time, I might be interested in your plants, and co2 tank. That is if you are getting rid of it.


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## willijack (Nov 7, 2015)

carl said:


> Quarantine all fish in copper or chloroquine phosphate for external parasites


Carl,

How is this done? For how long are the fish treated and left 'quarantined'?


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## conix67 (Jul 27, 2008)

I don't have experience with HOB overflow (I think it has to have a small pump to prime it in case of power outage) but I've seen people using it successfully. However, I think the better option is to drill the tank, and you can do it yourself with right tools.

4 bulb T5HO should be plenty for any type of corals. Make sure it's mounted close to the water surface. Your tank is probably much taller than my 75G but I had no problems with any corals, including Acros, when I had just 4 bulbs.

You can use canister filters for GFO, activated carbon which I recommend.

You will eventually need 2-part dosing or something similar.

I do recommend having an aquarium controller, full Apex would be nice but pricey. Get at least reef keeper lite for temperature control. Do not rely on the heater's built in thermostat for temperature control.

I recommend reef sand for substrate. Do not use the fine grain sand (I have that) that will blow around with flow from power head.

I'm currently using 2 Jebao RW-8s that have been running in my tank for a while. These are relatively low priced DC powerheads that I think provides good value. You could just get couple Koralia AC power heads with sufficient flow rating. There's no real need for wave controller IMO.

Good test kits are a must. I started with API but they lacked resolution that is needed for reef aquarium. This can get pricey but important part of reef aquarium, at least in the beginning.

Get a skimmer that is rated much higher than your tank size.

Yeah, dip all corals and bring in QT'd fishes only. The worst thing you can have in your reef aquarium is parasite outbreak.

Also, be careful with soft corals. Some of them (common mushrooms, for example) can spread out of control and bother other corals.


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## Vinoy Thomas (Jan 4, 2013)

My ideal low-tech set up

- lights
- skimmer
- sump
- return pump
- drilled overflows
- powerheads
- glass cleaner (magnetic) 
- salifert test kits (all, calcium, and magnesium) 
- heater 
- reef salt
- dry rock
- 2 part dosing for your tank size if you plan on stocking a lot 

Literally all you need is listed above for a successful tank. I could strip my tank to that and still have it running smoothly (if you're not going sps dominant). 

Advices:

- don't buy jebao powerheads, I have bought two rw4s had to replace the motors twice. Costed me more than what I would've spent buying one good Eco tech vortech. 
- Always buy quality and well reviewed products. I have learned the hard way. When researching a product, Google the products name and "problems/ not working" to determine whether it is reliable or not. 
- drill your tank, I have a diamond coated 1" bit (I think might be 3/4) you can use if you decide to drill. Don't be afraid it is very easy!
- ALWAYS QUARANTINE AND DIP CORALS. I learned the very hard way by losing half of my SPS :/

All I can think of now. Once you get your tank rolling I'll give you a frag of some of my SPS.


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## fesso clown (Nov 15, 2011)

You'll need live rock, make sure you pick some nice stuff as it's really all about the aquascape, you don't want just a pile of rock......

hey, wait a minute.... I am selling my liverock. lol (my whole system actually) hit me up if you're interested in some nice flat shelf rocks and Pukani. I'll give you a great deal and some advice. You'd get a bunch of free coral too that's encrusted. Check my feedback rating. 
The aquascape possibilities are sweet! This tank is also a 120G








Here's my build thread to see more. 
http://gtaaquaria.com/forum/showthread.php?t=107466&page=22&highlight=ward%27s+island

I would suggest you start reading build threads, here and on Reef Central. Just pump "reef build thread" into google and start your research. 
Good luck and PM me if you want a killer deal on some really nice rock. (no rush either)


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## szl (Sep 18, 2015)

My advice...

1. Go slow.
2. Go slow.
3. If you think you are going slow enough, you're not, slow down.
4. Research everything thoroughly.
5. Listen to other people and learn from their experiences.

There is so much beauty to be had in reef tanks, but there are going to be things that you cant keep due to tank size, aggression, diet etc. Listen to what people tell you about those animals, 99% of the time they are right. Dont go searching for the one thread where someone says the kept an Achilles tang in a 20 gallon tank, as justification. 

Take everything you read wiht a grain of salt


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## notclear (Nov 5, 2011)

Join MAST 

http://mastcanada.org/


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## carl (Feb 11, 2010)

willijack said:


> carl said:
> 
> 
> > Quarantine all fish in copper or chloroquine phosphate for external parasites
> ...


The fish is medicated with copper safe or chloroquine phosphate for three weeks to eliminate ich in a separate bare bottom tank before being added to your display tank. You can setup your own quarantine tank or buy fish from us which have already been through the three weeks qt. Google ich and quarantine and read all about it, if you have questions call me because I can talk a lot faster than I can type 4164609922 Carl


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## willijack (Nov 7, 2015)

Thanks buddy.



carl said:


> The fish is medicated with copper safe or chloroquine phosphate for three weeks to eliminate ich in a separate bare bottom tank before being added to your display tank. You can setup your own quarantine tank or buy fish from us which have already been through the three weeks qt. Google ich and quarantine and read all about it, if you have questions call me because I can talk a lot faster than I can type 4164609922 Carl


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## homy77 (Aug 24, 2013)

*thanks guys*

I stopped getting emails from the site after the first two replies and figured no one saw the message.

but I really appreciate the advise.

I will be selling off my plants and livestock, driftwood, substrate

I'm not sure if I want to sell my Co2 setup yet since I'm not sure if i'll have a need for it in the saltwater system.

but I'm not totally ready to start this process yet...

I'm looking to get started in January time frame unless I find things for really good deals here and there.

I want to make sure this succeeds because if it fails...wifey will make sure we exit hobby....lol


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## chronzz (Jan 27, 2014)

Even though you are worried about drilling holes you should be more worried about ur overflow box malfunctioning and dumping half ur tank in ur sump or worst ur floors. Big als dose a good job at drilling wholes. Or you can even go to a professional glass place and have them do it but it's a lot safer than using a hang on the back overflow.


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## carl (Feb 11, 2010)

homy77 said:


> I stopped getting emails from the site after the first two replies and figured no one saw the message.
> 
> but I really appreciate the advise.
> 
> ...


I can drill your holes if needed, advice is free and worth every penny


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## fesso clown (Nov 15, 2011)

+1 you need holes.


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## homy77 (Aug 24, 2013)

carl said:


> I can drill your holes if needed, advice is free and worth every penny


thanks, I'll keep that in mind for when I'm ready to get started


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## darkangel66n (May 15, 2013)

The best advice so far has been to take your time. Time is the best friend, worst enemy of a reefer. The more time you wait and the slower you go, the better off you will be. Now for some argument starting advice, you can treat your reef like your planted tank in many ways. I run my reef with just an AC110 and a HOB refugium with great success, for what I want. I do not keep SPS so this works for me. This is not a science and what works for one, may not for another. Take all the advice and find what works best for you.


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## bruno129 (May 13, 2009)

Don't go with the HOB overflow. Every single one of those is a disaster waiting to happen. Drilling a tank is easy - as long as the glass isn't tempered, in which case, it's impossible. If you do happen to have a tank that can't be drilled, buy a new one that can be. Take it from someone who's made those mistakes already. For your overflow and drains, go with the bare minimum a Herbie drain; Beananimal if you have the room. Consider drilling the tank for your return lines as well - it'll make for a nice, clean look.

If you've ever used copper based medication in the tank, just scrap it and buy a new one. Not worth the headaches in the future.

For live rock - I'm of the opinion that you don't need to buy all "live" rock. If you want to save some cash, buy a few choice pieces of fresh live rock and a bunch of dry rock. As far as substrate goes....not even going to attempt to get into that other than do say do your research and go with what you think will work for you.

Skimmers - Lots of options; I've been using Bubble Magus for a while and I'm very happy. They're pretty hard to beat for the price.

Lights - 4 bulb T5 HO with marine specific bulbs will be OK for a lot of stuff. Personally, I would sell it and use the money to offset the price of LED. You can start the tank and get some fish and softies in there first and then consider moving to LED when you replace your first set of marine bulbs.

Pumps and powerheads - Spend the money to go with a know good quality and quiet pump; trust me on this.

Get a controller. I think at this point a controller isn't just a nice thing to have, it's a necessity. You can get a reefkeeper for a decent price.

You NEED an auto top off. You can have your controller do this for you. You NEED a RO/DI system and you NEED a refractometer. You NEED high quality test kits. I use Salifert. An exception to this would be your Ammonia, Nitrite and first Nitrate test kits for monitoring your cycle. Since your tank will be fallow during the cycle, precision is not important - you're only concerned with the trend over time. You just need something that will give you a rough idea of the numbers so you can track them and see how the tank is cycling. Save the expensive test kits for when you have critters in the tank.

You can keep parts of your CO2 system to use with a calcium reactor, but personally I'd just sell your complete system and dose 2 part rather than messing with a reactor.

Don't waste money on a prebuilt sump. Buy the largest tank that you can fit into your stand and build the sump yourself. It's ridiculously easy to do. Figure out the layout that you want, take some measurements, order the glass from your local glass shop and silicone it in there.

Figure out your plumbing ahead of time and make safe by default. That goes for everything; don't use devices to make something safe, *design* it to be safe. For example: DO NOT USE CHECK VALVES ON YOUR RETURN LINES! Set up your returns so that if the power goes out, the amount of water siphoned back into the sump ins't enough to overflow it. Another example: instead of making elaborate contraptions to try and keep your auto top off float valve from ever sticking in the on position, make your top off reservoir small enough that even if there was a malfunction and the entire reservoir was dumped into the tank, it wouldn't cause a flood or a detrimental drop in salinity. One more example: instead of using one heater slightly larger than you need, use two that are slightly smaller than you need. Let's say that you've worked out that you need a 200 watt heater; you'll want to get a little more than that so that you're not pushing the heater too hard and you have some room in case of an unexpected event. Let's say your furnace dies in the winter - those extra watts will come in handy when your house is 15 degrees. On the flip side, you don't want an overpowered, malfunctioning heater to cook your tank, so you'd get two 125 watt heaters; that way if the thermostat on one heater fails in the on position, you won't cook the tank and if the thermostat fails in the off position you still have one heater that may not heat the tank completely, but will nonetheless keep the temperature from dropping too far, too fast.

These are the things that I've learned over the years, mostly from making mistakes; some of them expensive mistakes. What worked for me may not work for you, but like everyone has said, TAKE YOUR TIME!!


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## homy77 (Aug 24, 2013)

thank you for the detailed post.... I really appreciate all the words of wisdom

there is usually a sticker on the bottom of the tank saying it's tempered correct?

I went looking under the tank last night and couldn't find one, so i'll assume its not tempered, but I won't know for sure until I've completely emptied the tank and have a proper look.

if the sticker isn't there, is there any other way for me to know for sure?


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## tom g (Jul 8, 2009)

*Tempered glass*

If u go to YouTube u can pull up a video to show u how to chk it out using a pair of polarized glasses


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## carl (Feb 11, 2010)

homy77 said:


> thank you for the detailed post.... I really appreciate all the words of wisdom
> 
> there is usually a sticker on the bottom of the tank saying it's tempered correct?
> 
> ...


Take the tank into bright sunlight and look along the surface, if you see roller marks it's tempered


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## homy77 (Aug 24, 2013)

Great, thanks guys

I'm just hoping it's not tempered.....

I'll start a thread when I get started on what I end up doing.

thanks

Homy


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## twobytwo (Oct 25, 2014)

You Can also drill the sides. If going that route and it was me, I would do it in a corner, with one hole on one pane (back) and the other hole on the side as I believe the glass (which was not originally intended to be drilled) will maintain more strength with one hole than 2. Although, good bulkheads may help.

How thick is the side/back glass? 3/8? 1/2? 5/8?


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## bruno129 (May 13, 2009)

Acoording to this: http://www.aqueonproducts.com/assets/011/19107.pdf

Aqueon (All Glass Aquarium) 120 tanks have a tempered bottom. It's probably safe to assume that Marineland tanks are built with a tempered bottom as well. so that limits you to drilling the back/sides. I drilled my current tank in the back thanks to a tempered bottom.

It's been a while since I drilled anything, but if I remember correctly, the rule of thumb is holes should be twice the hole diameter away from any edge and one hole diameter away from each other.


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## badmedicine (Oct 27, 2012)

homy77 said:


> Need your help/advise.
> 
> I currently have an ehiem canister and fluval canister which I think I can use, but not sure for what since i'll have a sump
> 
> ...


Hang onto your canister filters- don't sell them. I use my canister filter to increase my biofiltration (using SIPRORAX) as well as using a sump. If you have 2 canisters, you are ahead of the game already. Keep them attached to your display tank for the biofiltration. When you quarantine you will have a filter at the ready to use. (I usually dispose of the siporax and add fresh when I attach it back to my display).

Another thing to consider although it is premature at this point...(5 year old tank)
Clean your tank with vinegar and check the calking after it is dry. I redid the calking on my tank after 10 years and it was still good but showing some age.
Calking and SEALING a tank are two separate things. Calking is super easy (afternoon job on a 120) and it will give you peace of mind. I did not have great success with the GE stuff but some of the better fish stores have the pro stuff and it works great!!

Ask questions, ask questions ask away! Learn from our mistakes and experience.


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## homy77 (Aug 24, 2013)

Hey Guys,

so...the sale is done, tank is empty YAAAAYYYY, lol

I'm in the process of building my sump as I got my hands on a 29 gallon and got glass baffles from a place on midland just north of Lawrence.

I'm going to be taking my tank over to NAFB to have him put in an overflow box as my tank is a perfecto and based off my reading on the interweb only the bottom is tempered.

I'm also thinking of having them reseal my tank as the silicone along the vertical edges look a little worn.

has anyone gotten them to reseal their tank before?

I think their fee for the overflow with drilling the tank is reasonable (cheaper than a HOB overflow)

once I actually get started i'll start a build thread and would love any feedback I can get from everyone as I go.

thanks


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## Rookie2013 (Jan 17, 2013)

dont forget to upload pics we are all keen to see pics of new setup...Good Luck.


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## homy77 (Aug 24, 2013)

Hey all, so Ive been running the tank in the garage for a week now to make sure that the seals are holding and now I have just about all the equipment hooked up

So here is my build

120g miracles tank, side overflow with 1.5" drain
29 gallon sump with 4 sections
I got a cad lights 150 protein skimmer
Jecod 100gph return pump
Jebao sw-15 power head
4 bulb 60" t5ho light fixture

I still need to get the return spray bar, the right type of hose for the return and then move it back into the house

I'm going to attach some pics I took today






































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## Jer_H (Dec 9, 2014)

*Overflow*

Everything looks great so far. The only concern I'd have is a single overflow. Should that ever get clogged, you could potentially end up with a flood, followed by a burnt out return pump.


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## homy77 (Aug 24, 2013)

I've actually tested both scenarios, by seeing what would happen if the return pump died and if the return wasn't draining.

in both scenarios the sump was able to handle the overflow to where it filled about half full, and if the overflow got clogged, the chamber with the return pump wouldn't do much to the overall water level in the tank.

At 1.5" diameter, it would take some considerable buildup or a rat getting caught in the pipe to clog it, but I'll be inspecting it on the regular since I can't afford to have any mishaps.

I need to figure something out for the drain pipe and how to install a filer sock, make it quieter.

I was thinking of getting some acrylic and installing it in the tank after drilling some holes in it to install the filter sock in, but we'll see what I come up with.

I'm also thinking of putting in bio balls in the second chamber and some sort of mechanical filter like a sponge or something, but again, we'll see what I can figure out and I'll post pictures once I do figure something out.


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## homy77 (Aug 24, 2013)

*noisy overflow*

I've been trying to search online for a solution to a noisy overflow problem I'm having.

I've tried putting in a 90 degree fitting into the overflow with a hole dilled into the top, but the water level keeps going up and down and instead of being a constant annoying gurgling noise, it's now an intermittent gurgling noise.

any ideas what I can do to stop this before moving my tank back into the house?


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## twobytwo (Oct 25, 2014)

Sorry if I missed it, but where does your drain pipe end, in your sump? Is it deep under the waterline? just slightly below it?


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## homy77 (Aug 24, 2013)

So right now the drain goes pretty much to the bottom of the sump, I assume that would be ok


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## carl (Feb 11, 2010)

Put a hole in the side of your drain pipe just above the water level in your sump, that will stop your problem


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## homy77 (Aug 24, 2013)

i'll give that a shot..thanks


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## homy77 (Aug 24, 2013)

so taking your suggestion has sort of worked....it's moved the gurgling noise from the overflow to where I made the hole...

still noisy though.

I may need to re-think the entire drainage plan.

I'm using flexible hose down into the sump and wonder if a solid pipe would be any better?


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## carl (Feb 11, 2010)

So apparently you're sucking air in with your water


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## homy77 (Aug 24, 2013)

It's been a while since i posted last but the tank is in the house again and it's running

I solved the gurgling noise by putting a ball valve on the drain to restrict flow a little, this seems to have worked

I added 2 40 lbs bags of ocean direct live sand and 2 bags of Fiji pink

I'm getting 2 cases of reef rock and will be looking for some live rock to help seed the reef rock

I'll also be adding live rock to the sump and wanted to know what you guys think about those big ceramic tubes, I've seen them at a couple of Chinese shops and they look pretty porous,

Water is super cloudy right now but I'm hoping it'll clear up in a couple of days

Once the water clears up at I safe to add snails to get things moving along?





















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## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

With a single drain line, resticting it is a BIG NO NO.

Kinda late for me to jumping in as it seems that you have everything in place but if you feel inclined:

At the overflow box, the elbow coming down, either change it to a "T" fitting, extent the upper side and cap it at aquarium height. Drill a 1/8-3/16 hole so air can be vented in.

If that's not possible but you can use a long bit to get to it, drill a hole (1/4", IIRC) so that you can fit an RO tubing (silicone around the connection afterwards) to help vent.

At the sump end, build a "mini tower" and hole for 1.5" bulkhead. Connect the end drain line and add a pipe so that it is about 1/4" below the water line. This will help muffle the noise and contain most of the spray. If you need a rough drawing to do this, LMK and I'll scratch one out for you.


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## homy77 (Aug 24, 2013)

Hey thanks for the info

I'll give that a shot

I adds my hardscape today, 100lbs of dry rock and 15 lbs of live rock to seed

I'll keep you posted on progress as things move along

Thanks















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## homy77 (Aug 24, 2013)

About a week in and tank cleared up nicely

Ive been seeing what look like tiny caterpillars in a piece of live rock

Also found a star fish that's made its way into the glass in my tank

I'm gonna try and take pics of the bug looking things to see if anyone knows what they are

Thanks




















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## Midland (Jan 26, 2015)

homy77 said:


> About a week in and tank cleared up nicely
> 
> Ive been seeing what look like tiny caterpillars in a piece of live rock
> 
> ...


I believe they are a type of Asterina star fish. They showed up in my tank about 6 months after I started it and posed no problems. They went away on their own with time. However, some of the reading I have done says that some types are harmless while others are not. Hopefully someone who has more experience then I do comments. Here is a link to what I read:

https://reefbuilders.com/2015/08/08/common-coral-reef-pests-ideas-remove/

Hope this helps.


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## CoralConnoisseur (Mar 5, 2014)

Our first reef had massive amounts of these asterina starfish. To the point of cleaning the glass and within a few hours they would be back all over it. I did hear from some of our LFS guys that they can be bad, either bothering polyps and keeping them closed, or even eating zoas and palys. I can't say as I ever noticed them "eating" coral, I most definitely did notice them sitting right on zoas/palys for extended periods of time, keeping them closed.

Since tearing down and re starting at Christmas, I have been removing them as I see them. I am sure they must eat things like nuisance algae, but good diverse live rock should contain enough bugs that losing this one type of star is not an issue. Just my experience tho.


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## tom g (Jul 8, 2009)

*asteria starfish*

i as well find them a pain in the ass .. as a rule I usually have a pair of tweezers near tank and when I get a chance I will sit there and scoop em out one by one , I find if u do this at least weekly u can keep the numbers down .if not they get out of hand .. again a harlequin shrimp will take care of them providing u don't have anything in tank that will eat your 25.00 purchase and if u can keep him alive u will have to find a tank that has starfish in to sustain his diet ...
good luck.
tom


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## homy77 (Aug 24, 2013)

tom g said:


> i as well find them a pain in the ass .. as a rule I usually have a pair of tweezers near tank and when I get a chance I will sit there and scoop em out one by one , I find if u do this at least weekly u can keep the numbers down .if not they get out of hand .. again a harlequin shrimp will take care of them providing u don't have anything in tank that will eat your 25.00 purchase and if u can keep him alive u will have to find a tank that has starfish in to sustain his diet ...
> 
> good luck.
> 
> tom


So far I only see one of those starfish, I'll worry about it when I start to see a few more

What's funny is I'm not seeing those bugs all that much anymore but I did see what I think was a mysis shrimp

Btw has anyone bought live rock from NAFB before? They're around the corner from my house and I want to grab live rock from a few different sources

Also I'm checking out a new shop on Kennedy Rd just north of ellesmere called magical aquarium. I think they opened a couple of weeks ago

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## homy77 (Aug 24, 2013)

I dropped by magical aquarium club today

They're still setting up but it seems to be a nice setup, decent sized store

Lots of Chinese branded equipment at pretty decent prices

Example would be the jebao sw15 that I paid 120 for he's selling for 105

He doesn't have much live stock yet but it's mostly freshwater at the moment

He did have some live rock, a couple of tangs and a couple of clown fish

I think it'll take them a little while to stock up

Nice staff though, look forward to seeing what they stock and prices as well


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## CoralConnoisseur (Mar 5, 2014)

Live rock from multiple sources is a good idea, but you need to inspect the rock closely. Aiptasia is pretty easy to spot, also fairly easy to get rid of. But there are many bad hitchhiker's. Look up hydroids, they seem fairly common, and you don't want them. Bubble algae is a pain as well, easy to identify, not so easy to totally eradicate.


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## homy77 (Aug 24, 2013)

Hi All,

so i'm about a month in and running.

things are going well.

I had a diatom bloom for a few days, I have hair algae now on one side of the tank only which is weird, but whatever.

I did notice that I have copepods all over my glass on three sides.

I'm not really cleaning the glass now because I think it's good to have these guys around, but i'm really getting antsy and want to clean the glass, lol.

I've added 2 urchins, 3 emerald crabs, some snails, sand sifting starfish and 1 blood shrimp.

all seem to be happy at the moment.

i'll update again in a couple of months....unless I have questions...or something weird happens....or if I lie and update you all again sooner, lol.


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## Crayon (Apr 13, 2014)

Clean the glass! You won't kill the copepods, but the longer you wait to clean it, the harder the algae will be on the glass and it will take forever. Once you do clean it.
Giving the glass a quick wipe with a mag cleaner every few days is much easier than having to spend an hour scraping hard algae off. Or even coralline algae off, once it starts to grow on the glass.


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## homy77 (Aug 24, 2013)

1 month in photos















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## homy77 (Aug 24, 2013)

So after giving up on finding a stand that I wanted, I decided to build my own

I used 3/4"x3/4" 1/16 thick aluminum edge and flat pieces to build almost like a scaffold for the light

After using a hack saw to cut all the pieces to length, drilled and fastened with nuts and bolts, then spray painted black with tremclad outdoor semi gloss black paint

I got about 7" off the top of the tank, in retrospect I should have gone higher as i still have a bit of a dark spot in the top middle of the tank

In total cost me roughly 70.00 for everything which isn't bad considering and most of all I like it, lol, actually who are we kidding, my wife likes it which trumps my decision any day

Anyways here's some pics
































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