# Lucky Aquarium's In Hot Water



## aquatic_expressions

http://www.petproductnews.com/headl...ealer-with-smuggling-snakeheads-arowanas.aspx


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## fishead

didn't know they still had hot water for the showers in jail?


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## default

that sucks.. although i never liked their operations anyways.


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## bigfishy

too bad for Jim...

sometimes I wonder if these are sting operation too, as people ask me to ship Asian Arowana to the states


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## WiyRay

If you know you shouldn't do it, then don't do it. It really is that simple. 

From what I can tell, that fish store has been in business for well over 10 years so they can't possibly be doing that bad to the point of being desperate for money. 

If that article is accurate, the total profit from all those transactions was only about ~$4500 over the time span of approx. 2 years. Correct me if I'm wrong but that really isn't worth risking.


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## Guest

Do the crime...then you do the time. Smuggling even one animal for profit demands punishment.

no sympathy


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## Symplicity

Is there a purpose for wanting snakeheads?


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## solarz

WiyRay said:


> If that article is accurate, the total profit from all those transactions was only about ~$4500 over the time span of approx. 2 years. Correct me if I'm wrong but that really isn't worth risking.


I really don't think that was the only illegal transaction they made during these 2 years.


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## CrystalMethShrimp

Is lucky's the one with the big gold fish logo in the same plaza as starwok buffet? The owner's wife has a cute kids voice and is really nice?


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## default

CrystalMethShrimp said:


> Is lucky's the one with the big gold fish logo in the same plaza as starwok buffet? The owner's wife has a cute kids voice and is really nice?


no, thats kowloon? or however you spell it. lucky is in market village the mall beside pacific mall.


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## df001

Snakeheads are often sold for food(dead) but i think the aquarium aspect is the same as people who want pirana, to see an aggressive preditor eat other fish/stuff violently.

the issue comes with the risk of release be it accidental or intentional. As they ate highly invasive.

The part that really bothers me is that so they catch one guy, how many others are still out there.. Nice press release to make themselves look good without adressing the issue behind the problem. Typical



Symplicity said:


> Is there a purpose for wanting snakeheads?


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## Jackson

df001 said:


> Snakeheads are often sold for food(dead) but i think the aquarium aspect is the same as people who want pirana, to see an aggressive preditor eat other fish/stuff violently.
> 
> the issue comes with the risk of release be it accidental or intentional. As they ate highly invasive.
> 
> The part that really bothers me is that so they catch one guy, how many others are still out there.. Nice press release to make themselves look good without adressing the issue behind the problem. Typical


Snake heads are not all huge predators. Some of the most colorful, beautiful and interesting tropical fresh water fish are snake heads and they stay small.
We can thank the idiots who ruined it for the rest of us.

Also not all owners of piranha are sadist. I know many intelligent hobbyists who love them and do not feed live foods.

Most if not all the stores on that strip is dealing in some type if illegal activity. That's a fact!!!


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## df001

Jackson said:


> Most if not all the stores on that strip is dealing in some type if illegal activity. That's a fact!!!


Thats sort of what I was getting at by alluding to the "bigger Issue" in that there seems to be some cultural biases towards flaunting the laws.

That'd be the reason why I wont patronize such stores.


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## WiyRay

solarz said:


> I really don't think that was the only illegal transaction they made during these 2 years.


No, that most definitely is not the only illegal transaction made during the 2 years.
I meant more along the lines of transactions occurring with that single person over the time span of 2 years. Plus... wouldn't you start to think things are a bit fishy? (yes, pun)


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## bigfishy

They should put a ban on all fish importation like what they did in Australia, then none of these would've happen.


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## Altumnut

Jackson said:


> Snake heads are not all huge predators. Some of the most colorful, beautiful and interesting tropical fresh water fish are snake heads and they stay small.
> We can thank the idiots who ruined it for the rest of us.
> 
> Also not all owners of piranha are sadist. I know many intelligent hobbyists who love them and do not feed live foods.
> 
> Most if not all the stores on that strip is dealing in some type if illegal activity. That's a fact!!!


Hey Jackson,

I would think they do not stay small. If there is food they will grow.
http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/lo...d-ontario-100808/20100808/?hub=TorontoNewHome
If these guys are released into our waterways...they will produce and wipe out many sportfish species. Not to mention the threat of our dog going for a swim in a lake up north somewhere.

...Ralph


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## Fishfur

If the guy is guilty, I hope he gets a long sentence and not a slap on the wrist. We've got enough problems with invasive species without anyone smuggling more. Way too many people let fish go in lakes or rivers, look at what's happened with Asian carp, to mention just one instance. I don't know if it's ignorance, laziness or misguided kindness, but there is no excuse for it. As it happens, I was just in Lucky's, for the first time, yesterday. They sure as heck have a lot of arowanas on hand. The place is kind of crowded and untidy, but the staff seemed pleasant enough.


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## bigfishy

Altumnut said:


> Hey Jackson,
> 
> I would think they do not stay small. If there is food they will grow.
> http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/lo...d-ontario-100808/20100808/?hub=TorontoNewHome
> If these guys are released into our waterways...they will produce and wipe out many sportfish species. Not to mention the threat of our dog going for a swim in a lake up north somewhere.
> 
> ...Ralph


The government agents are just exaggerating, and trying to scare the public, there are some species that stay small and colorful 

Channa bleheri, aka rainbow snakehead, max out around 8", very colorful and can only survive in the tropic

Channa maculata, aka blotched snakehead, max out around 8", similar looking to argus (Northern snakehead)

Channa gachu, aka dwarf snakehead, max out around 8", a cheap subsitute of rainbow snakehead

Channa pleurophthalma, aka ocellated snakehead, max out around 16"ish, similar looking to marulius as juvenile

Channa barca (my personal favorite), aka barca snakehead, max out around 36", the most colorful and the most rarest snakehead in the world


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## Hitch

Are axolitis illegal to keep? or is it just illegal to export/import?


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## Guest

Hitch said:


> Are axolitis illegal to keep? or is it just illegal to export/import?


neither... proper paperwork required (CITES) for import/export


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## BillD

Some of the stuff in the article makes no sense. If I sell you a legally obtained Arrowana, in Canda, and you choose to smuggle it to the US, that is your issue. The snakeheads thing, for sure.


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## Hitch

The main point of the arowana case is the knowledge on Jim's part that the purchaser had the intention of bringing the fish into the states. Which Im sure the prosecutors would use the location of the transfer to argue that the location was chosen to accommodate the smuggling.

and ya, there is really no argument for the snakeheads. As it by itself would lead to felony charges.


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## bigfishy

BillD said:


> Some of the stuff in the article makes no sense. If I sell you a legally obtained Arrowana, in Canda, and you choose to smuggle it to the US, that is your issue. The snakeheads thing, for sure.


Depends on how smart his lawyer is... lol! 

Arguable statements

1) He can claim the batch of snakehead he sent was in fact a bag of bowfin (a native fish to eastern Canada / States).

2) he can claim that his supplier made the mistake of sending him the real "snakehead" instead of "bowfin" since they look very similar. (since he knows clearly it is illegal to export snakehead to the United States) It is a very common occurance in the fish industry if the supplier aren't educated on fish Iding or mix up on orders can happen

3) Fish store can use false name to boost sales or in the worst case scenario he can admit he made a false sale & false advertisment to his buyer

something like that....


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## Dman

bigfishy said:


> Depends on how smart his lawyer is... lol!
> 
> Arguable statements
> 
> 1) He can claim the batch of snakehead he sent was in fact a bag of bowfin (a native fish to eastern Canada / States).
> 
> 2) he can claim that his supplier made the mistake of sending him the real "snakehead" instead of "bowfin" since they look very similar. (since he knows clearly it is illegal to export snakehead to the United States) It is a very common occurance in the fish industry if the supplier aren't educated on fish Iding or mix up on orders can happen
> 
> 3) Fish store can use false name to boost sales or in the worst case scenario he can admit he made a false sale & false advertisment to his buyer
> 
> something like that....


Ya but you also gotta think the states are pissed, snakeheads are destroying there Eco systems, and I think the new York government will def scare the shit put of any lawyer lucky could hire


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## Dman

And also the fact he owns a fish store is not the easiest way of convincing the court you didn't know that fish was a snakehead he should of done it smart n just referred the guy to his brother or someone and have him do the illegal sale and have nothing to do with his store


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## fishead

If you use the Bowfin argument then he is guilty of smuggling game fish. More chargesNot to mention illegal capture and transportation charges. Might want to find a smarter lawyer.


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## bigfishy

Dman said:


> And also the fact he owns a fish store is not the easiest way of convincing the court you didn't know that fish was a snakehead he should of done it smart n just referred the guy to his brother or someone and have him do the illegal sale and have nothing to do with his store


Since this is his first felony charge, it can fall under as a honest mistake

He can claim he never took the fish out of the bag / box and his store act as a transitional stop from his supplier and straight to the buyer.

or he can use baby bichir (I forgot which species). When they are at baby size, the fish has side stripe that is similar to the giant snakehead

Just like a person can't tell the difference between a bag of diatom, a bag of starch and a bag of cocaine if they were being put together

Like I said before, it's really depend on how smart his lawyer is...


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## bigfishy

fishead said:


> If you use the Bowfin argument then he is guilty of smuggling game fish. More chargesNot to mention illegal capture and transportation charges. Might want to find a smarter lawyer.


not really, bowfin can be obtain as a food fish and be sold in supermarket


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## Jackson

I wonder what type if charges his mules were given.


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## RCode

People get off for murder. As much as they'd like to make an example of him.... I think they have by getting the word out that they are watching.

I was in the store on Thursday before I read this, and the store looked cleaned up a bit. Less fish crammed in tanks, and no so many exotic fish. 

I wondered if new owners, but looked like all the same people who ignore me like usual. Never really liked the place, but I go for the cultural experience.


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## bigfishy

RCode said:


> I wondered if new owners, but looked like all the same people who ignore me like usual. Never really liked the place, but I go for the cultural experience.


If you guys didn't know, Lucky's Aquarium is owned by 3 parties


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## vrb th hrb

df001 said:


> Thats sort of what I was getting at by alluding to the "bigger Issue" in that there seems to be some cultural biases towards flaunting the laws.
> 
> That'd be the reason why I wont patronize such stores.


this and the sale of dyed fish

i hope they shut it down for good, place is a shithole in my opinion


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## default

vrb th hrb said:


> this and the sale of dyed fish
> 
> i hope they shut it down for good, place is a shithole in my opinion


+1


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## splur

bigfishy said:


> too bad for Jim...
> 
> sometimes I wonder if these are sting operation too, as people ask me to ship Asian Arowana to the states


Wow into Hawaii too, that would land you in really hot water.


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## Darkblade48

The news made The Star.

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/art...-in-u-s-for-smuggling-illegal-species-of-fish


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## Zebrapl3co

Wow, I think he's in really deep trouble. What was he thinking? You can't mess with the US like that. It sounds like he was lead by the nose to the slaghter.
I don't think even a 5 yrs old would believe him if he says it's a mistake.
I think his only legal option is to accuse the US of luring him or bribed him or lead him to commit a crime.
Addition:
Also, if you read the story in the first post. Which is in more detail than the one posted by The Star (it's amazing how the two can give you a different perspective). It sounded like Lucky constantly raises the topic that it's illegal and was reluctant to commit the crime. But eventually cave in to the hard cold cash. So it's not like they got busted for an on going operation. It sounded like the US approached him and entice them to commit a crime ...
So this sound more like an entrapement rather than a bust. Two very distinctive thing in the court of law. So don't be too quick to pre-judge.

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## bigfishy

Watch!

First time offender, it will just be a slap on the wrist!



look @ this!

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/cri...jail-article-1.991626?localLinksEnabled=false

first time offender, always easy off! 

"The prosecutor said Chaw had smuggled fish at on at least three occasions since 2004. A previous arrest was disposed of with an $850 fine."

a few times, then it's a different story!


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## df001

bigfishy said:


> Watch!
> 
> First time offender, it will just be a slap on the
> 
> a few times, then it's a different story!


Disagree, ornamental endangered species is one thing, high risk invasive species is another. NY state fish and game have major clout/protections in place


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## Fishyfishyfishy

These government organized traps are usually started by an anonymous tip. I am not surprised someone snitched on Jim, hate the operation of that store. Hope they close down soon.


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## CrankbaitJon

It's really Jim that's getting into trouble rather than Lucky since it's owned by 3 parties. Store isn't the greatest but I don't think I can count more that 5 stores in the GTA that are better than them in terms of treating animals well, honestly.


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## supergourami

i am still going to shop at luckys because i cant locate some exotics they have instock, the agent pressured lp to make the sale as he came into the store and asked lp and he was hesitant and it dosnt make to much sense the arowanas were sold in canada after the transaction the agent was supposidly going to take them across the border not lp but the snake heads no question he is guilty


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## Zidartha

*Some folllow up...*

Does the $90 000 and jail time count as a slap on the wrist?

http://m.theglobeandmail.com/news/t...or-behind-bars/article5323769/?service=mobile

Does anyone know if this store is still open? I saw it referenced in a current thread. Hence, the search... and finding this old thread.

k.


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## Jackson

Yes it is open


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## Ryan.Wilton

That's stupid that he was busted for Snakeheads.... They're not even a real threat IMO, I don't think they could survive our winters... But who am I to argue against ecological surveys...


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## balutpenoy2oy

I went there today together with my wife, And I asked store tender for Boesemani Rainbow fish, he quickly went to the side where they are holding it but none. Then I ask him the price in their display, replied to me " are you buying it ? " . I said I am just asking for the price and he QUICKLY TURN HIS BACK ON ME and leave me saying NOTHING not a SINGLE word... My wife was shocked with this. How cruel , rude and disrespectful this person was!!!! I will never ever again come to this place. We went to AQUA pets and we got a good deal , got three Boesemani rainbow, nice guy there and accommodating


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## smcx

Part of the snakeheads native range is siberia. The fish can often survive being frozen solid and then thawed. They are a very very real threat.


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## solarz

smcx said:


> Part of the snakeheads native range is siberia. The fish can often survive being frozen solid and then thawed. They are a very very real threat.


Apparently, they're also very delicious.


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## smcx

So are red snapper. We import them already dead.


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## bigfishy

smcx said:


> Part of the snakeheads native range is siberia. The fish can often survive being frozen solid and then thawed. They are a very very real threat.


Only Northern, other species can't survive the cold


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## Ryan.Wilton

Well... Then I guess the snakeheads can be dangerous, however he sold the giant which I believe hails from warmer climates. Still I think it's dumb that Jim had this happen, I think it's even dumber that he was caught. 

Simplest way to avoid this situation is to simply ask "are you a police officer" if the answer is no then he could've proceeded with caution as if the cop lied he could use that as a defense. Remember, even if undercover, if you ask a cop if that's what they are, they have to answer truthfully.

Although the agent had been undercover since 2007 for this, so I'm certain that (as said earlier) way more than 2 transactions occur during this time frame. Hell I wouldn't be surprised if Jim is still doing this using more caution...


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## Jackson

You think the word of a smuggler/criminal will hold up against an officer?

Only in Hollywood not in real life.

He deserves what he gets handed to him. 
Screwing the system not paying taxes while all of us who work hard pay taxes. Even his store screws the system with all the tax free cash transactions. 
Same thing goes for the rest of them over in that area.


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## Greg_o

Ryan.Wilton said:


> Simplest way to avoid this situation is to simply ask "are you a police officer" if the answer is no then he could've proceeded with caution as if the cop lied he could use that as a defense. Remember, even if undercover, if you ask a cop if that's what they are, they have to answer truthfully.
> 
> ...


This is simply not correct.


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## Darkblade48

Ryan.Wilton said:


> Simplest way to avoid this situation is to simply ask "are you a police officer" if the answer is no then he could've proceeded with caution as if the cop lied he could use that as a defense. Remember, even if undercover, if you ask a cop if that's what they are, they have to answer truthfully.





Greg_o said:


> This is simply not correct.


+1. You've been watching to many movies, Ryan.Wilton


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## Blitzcraze

Darkblade48 said:


> +1. You've been watching to many movies, Ryan.Wilton


No if u ask a undercover if he's a cop he does not have too tell u altho they must provide a badge number if requested

Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk 2


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## Ryan.Wilton

if you ask a cop, they must tell you. Most people would never ask, so they never tell.

And as said by Blitz, if you ask for the badge, they must provide.  Too many movies indeed, but also too much research and I worked at a Tim Hortons, so I know too many cops ^_^ good and bad thing as I've already been let off of 2 speeding fines near my work hahah


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## Greg_o

re: the undercover bit

You have multiple people telling you you're wrong, and yet you base you assertion on the fact that you knew cops though working at a timmies.


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## Jackson

Blitzcraze said:


> No if u ask a undercover if he's a cop he does not have too tell u altho they must provide a badge number if requested
> 
> Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk 2


If he/she doesn't tell you then you're not going to ask for their badge number until it's too late lolol
-----------------

Uniformed officers must give you full name and # 
Same goes for any cop as long as you know having been arrested by them that they're a cop but they can always deny that info and you cant do a thing about it unless you have a really really good lawyer and it's usually just the arresting officers info.


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## xriddler

I had the same idea as ryan since it was mentioned on a television show (a non Fiction television show) However, with some digging (http://www.erowid.org/freedom/police/police_info6.shtml) that information was falsely provided. so i guess cops really dont have to say they are cops after all.


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## Jackson

Undercover, drug squad, homicide any of the (dang can't remember) let's say special divisions do not.

Uniformed officers must provide full name and badge number. They wear a name tag. Unless they won their bid in the last 1.5-2 years


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## Holidays

If you got speedin' ticket ya they'll tell you the badge #

but if they're undercover there's no way in hell they'll jeopradize their safety and operation and MUST give their badge# you must be joking


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## RR37

lol, that rumor is about as misleading as the comments about officers NEVER drawing firearms.


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## MDR

smcx said:


> Part of the snakeheads native range is siberia. The fish can often survive being frozen solid and then thawed. They are a very very real threat.





solarz said:


> Apparently, they're also very delicious.


solarz, I have heard that as well. I wouldn't object to trying it out. From what I see on youtube they also are a good sportfish for the fight they put up.

The very *real* threat is the Asian carp, a filter feeder which strips the water of food essential for young fish, population crash due to lack of food. To make it worse, they are already knocking at the lakes front door.

If snakeheads became established, they would be self regulated by availability of prey species, the carp on the other hand....watch the videos of the Illinois river and you get the picture.

A big (unwarranted) concern with snakeheads is the idea that they will destroy native fish species and damage salmon populations, looking at some southern states that have established populations of SH....surprise surprise, bass and other sportfish are still in those lakes.

Let us not forget that the salmon in the lakes were INTRODUCED as well. So before you get your pants in a knot, have a look at the genuinely "native" species. In case anyone is wondering, no the snakehead will not eat your children .


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## MDR

As for the "are you a cop" stuff......undercover agents would be in deep sh!t if they had to answer questions honestly.


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## Jackson

The carps came from the same source blame the farms and the government

Edit-
I could see a snake head taking a bite Muskie are known to do it


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## MDR

Jackson said:


> The carps came from the same source blame the farms and the government
> 
> Edit-
> I could see a snake head taking a bite Muskie are known to do it


True, I forgot they were brought here for algae control on some fish farms in the states, but escape was accidental rather than intentional release. Not to say I don't like going salmon fishing. I just have more fun going after perch, trout and pickerel. The salmon found its niche in the lakes, who is to say the snakehead wouldn't do the same. Like you said, maybe they would take a bite out of an invading carp.
I would much rather have a snakehead on my hook than see rivers choked with the carp.


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## xriddler

does asian carp taste good?


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## Jackson

xriddler said:


> does asian carp taste good?


Ewwwwww

I don't know lol

I haven't had any fish since I was old enough to say no way so about 28 years since then lol


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## Bantario

Jackson said:


> Ewwwwww
> 
> I don't know lol
> 
> I haven't had any fish since I was old enough to say no way so about 28 years since then lol


You gotta try freshly caught carp out of the Don river....YUMMY


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## Jackson

Bantario said:


> You gotta try freshly caught carp out of the Don river....YUMMY


LOL

I couldn't imagine even dipping a toe in there


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