# 75g "Dutch" Weed Farm



## slipfinger

Originally posted on June 27 2017 @ BarrReport

Figure it was time to add my journal to GTAA. It may look familiar to some as I have it also posted on a couple other forums.

I've been wanting to start a journal for sometime now, but documenting my progress either on paper or through photos has never been my strong suit and always seems to be an afterthought. I am one of those guys that brings his camera on vacation and doesn't take a single picture. But luck for me and you I did take a few random photos throughout the process.










*Past History:*

The tank has been up and running for roughly 9 months. For the first two months I dosed roughly ⅓ EI, then I flipped over to ½ EI for the following three months. Had no clue what I was doing but read that you do not need to dose anywhere near full EI with new AS. From day one I have run Co2 where it's a steady stream of bubbles through the counter, to hard to even count. At around the five month, life was a little busy and the tank was kinda left to its own accord. Dosing and trimming were very random, Co2 had run out at some point, and water changes pretty much came to a halt. As all this was taking place there was one constant, the lighting. Four of the six bulbs would come on religiously for 8 hours everyday. As you can imagine my algae growing skill far surpassed my plant growing abilities.

I finally had enough and I entered the tank with scissors in hand and clipped and pulled what ended up being over 75% of the plant material in the tank. When all was said and done I had a grocery bag full to the top of clipping. I restarted my Co2 system and set up a steady stream of bubbles as I had in the past. Lighting did not change, basically 4 bulbs, (two being 6400K's, one ATI Blue Plus and one Zoo Med Flora) came on for 8 hours each day. Co2 came on one hour before lights on, and went off one hour before lights off. I started dosing full EI, dosing 6 days a week, alternating macros and micros and did a 60% to 70% water change on the 7th day. Plant growth was steady. I tried different plants here and there, of course some grow better than others. I had/have issues with AR mini, leaves curl and stunt, R. wallichii stunting after a couple weeks in the tank, but most other things i've tried grew ok with this routine, some even grew to good (weeds) and they ended up in the compost bin.

*TL;DR;*

Tanks been running 9 months.
I let the tank crash due to lack of care and time around the 5 month mark.
Cleaned tank up.
Started dosing full EI about 3 months ago.
Most things grew well.
AR mini curls and stunts.
R. wallichii stunts after a week or so in the tank.

*The Basics and Current Set-up*

*Tank:* standard 75gal 48" x 21" x 18"
*Stand:* Homemade, 2x4 carcass, skinned with cabinet panels which are all removable giving me full access to equipment.









Carcass built and ready for black paint.









Cabinet with removable panels (skins) installed









Just in case someone is interested I used these little connectors to attach the panels.










*Light:* 6 bulb T5HO Tek light. Has to separate banks of bulbs, two outside bulbs on the first bank and the four middle bulbs on the second bank.










*Bulbs:* _From front to back_

6400K Sunblaster
Zoo Med Flora Sun
6400K Sunblaster
6400K Sunblaster
ATI Blue Plus ?
Giesemann AquaFlora

*Photoperiod:* 8h total. Currently fixture sits about 8" off the surface.
First 2 hours and last 2 hours, two bulbs come on consisting of bulbs 1 and 6
Middle 4 hours, all 6 bulbs on.
I am trying to get a hold of a Par meter to take some readings. I'll update when I get my hands on one.

*Filtration and Circulation:* Hydro 600, intake and outflow (via a spray bar) setup on left side of tank. Flow is directed across the surface and runs the length of the tank.
On the right side, Ehiem Skimmer 350 that I have plugged into a cheap timer which comes on for half hour runtime multiple times a day.
A Koralia 850 circulating water left to right, aiming downward. This is a balancing act between not disturbing the substrate but keeping the water flowing back across the tank at the plant level.










*Substrate:* 4 or 5 9L bags (can't remember) of ADA Aqua Soil.

*Co2:* Custom made Harrison dual stage regulator, Clippard solenoid, Fabco needle valve and 20lb tank.
24" x 2" PVC DYI reactor, gate valve on the outflow to control flow and to create a little back pressure to help with dissolving Co2.
Co2 comes on 1.h hours before lights on and goes off 1 hour before lights off.









I think I might need a little cord management

*Water Parameters*
_2016 Tap water report for my area._

Fe - 0.005 ppm
Mn - 0.0006 ppm
Cu - 0.008 ppm
Mg - 8.99 ppm
Zn - 0.0028 ppm
Mo - 0.0013 ppm
B - 0.023 ppm
dGH - 122mg/L ~7dGH
PH - 7.72
_Tank water according to API Test Kit_

dGH - ~7dGH
dKH - ~5dKH
PH - Forgot to replace the cap on my PH pen. Will update when I get a new one.

*Current Dosing
*
Macro dosing is based on full EI, I based my calculation on a full 75 gallons of water using Rotala Butterfly.
Macros are dry dosed 3 days a week.
7.5 ppm KNO3
1.3 ppm K2PO4

Micros are currently ½ EI which comes from Dutch Nutrient Formula Micro Mix. I mix these in a 500ml container and dose 10ml 3 days a week.
I dose an extra 5ml/.2 ppm of Flourish Iron on micro days.

















Dutch Nutrient Formula Trace Elements

I will add some of my thoughts, concerns and goals, along with more pictures and my current and past plant lists (at least the ones I know the names of) in my next post.

Thanks for following along, comments, concerns, critiques, suggestions and questions are all welcome and encouraged.


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## slipfinger

Like a lot of people I have always had major issues growing Alternanthera Reineckii 'mini' or any of the Alternanthera varieties. Leaves never grow flat, most are stunted and twisted. Basically the same old story we hear time and time again.

Crappy beat up AR before.









It was suggested to me, because my tap water has so much of the minor elements already in it to try and reduce micros and only dose .1ppm Fe DTPA and .05ppm Manganese Sulfate. I was going to try this for 2 weeks and see how the tank and plants respond. The plan was to not change anything else going on with the tank. Same Macro dosing and photo period and intensity as before. Co2 will remain the same one point drop before lights on and tapping out with another .3/.4 drop before lights out and 70% WC once a week. 
Well, things didn't work out as I had plan. I screwed up my calculation and only dosed .05ppm FE and .025ppm Mn for the first 2 weeks. The week before I started this, I dosed very little to no micros. So basically the tank went through a mini 'detox' for 3 weeks. Low and behold the AR mini showed improvement from what I guess was the low micros.

3 weeks after low micros 


__
https://flic.kr/p/VAipyW
 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/

My next step is to continue with my original plan of dosing .1ppm Fe and .5ppm Mn. I'll keep you up to date.


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## slipfinger

As mentioned in my last post, I screwed up and the tank ended up going through a 'mini detox'. Up until this point the tank was religiously receiving full EI level of micros.

It's way to early to even say or realistically think that the flatting out of AR mini leaves is due to my new dosing. But what we can say with certainty is that the plant definitely liked the low levels of micros. Once I set up my other tanks (two 40B grow-out/experimental tanks) I'd like to continue with the very low levels of micros to see how AR mini responds. But this little experiment in my 75g is not all about low levels of micros. Its more about replacing/removing the EDTA chelating agents from the micro mix and and how it affects AR mini growth. Yes, I am only dosing half EI levels of Fe at .1ppm so I guess you can say I'm reducing micros but my original goal was to remove the EDTA chelating agents from the tank.

I'm keeping a very close eye on the tank looking for any deficiencies that might pop up because I am only dosing Fe and Mn on micro day. I'm hoping that all the rest of the minor elements the plants needs will come from my tap water. I am currently in the process of getting my hands on all the raw materials that make up CMS + B so if needed I can start to supplement my tap water.

So far only thing acting weird is Bacopa caroliniana. Some not all, stem are stunting which I've never seen in this tank. Again to early to say what might be causing this, but we'll keep an eye on it to see how it reacts once we get this 'new' dosing stabilized a little better.

Note stunting of the right stem compared to left stem.


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## slipfinger

Removed a few things and did a little trimming. Tried my hand at some streets, still have random plants here and there.







AR looking a lot better, even some of the Variegated is straightening out.



My original one and a half stems of Pantanal has already turned into four stems. The picture does not do the colour justice. They seem a lot greener in the picture compared to what they look like in the tank.




Hygrophila corymbosa showing some sign of deficiency, anyone have any ideas?

Macros
Kno3 = 1/2tsp 7.3ppm
Kh2Po4 = 1/4tsp 3.4ppm
K2So4 = 3/4tsp 7.5ppm

Micros
.1ppm DTPA Fe
.05ppm Mn
Rest for tap water


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## slipfinger

*Update of deficiency.*

Since I was only dosing Fe and Mn and seeing if I could get enough of the other elements out of my tap water, I'm not to surprised to see some form of deficiency. Theoretically my tap water should have enough of the micro elements to supply the tank. But as was discussed on my other journal, are all these elements from the tap water in a useable state? Good question, and I have no clue.

On a side note, last week I did two water changes and never noticed any issues with the Hygrophila corymbosa. This week only one, which was last Saturday. Did I not notice it last week because I added more elements with the midweek water change? Or has the Hygrophila just now starting showing signs of deficiency due to the lack of supplemental trace dosing for the last three weeks?

*Tap Water readings from my water report*
Cu - 0.008 ppm
Mg - 8.99 ppm
Zn - 0.0028 ppm
Mo - 0.0013 ppm
B - 0.023 ppm

I bought some Flourish Trace and have started to dose it at the recommended label rate. I am also in the midst of ordering the individual elements so I can roll my own traces, I'd love to experiment and narrow down what element is causing the deficiency.

*Co2 issues.*

My Co2 has started to float around the last couple of days. I'm not to sure if its my needle valve (Fabco NV55) or if its my check valve built into my bubble counter messing up. Yesterday when I went to check on the tank, there was a ton of gurgling coming from my reactor and the Ph monitor was already showing a full one point drop in Ph and the Co2 had only been on for 20 minutes. The gas was flying through the bubble counter and I had to dial it down a fair amount. This morning I go down and Ph has only dropped .1 and Co2 had been on for half hour.

I am now on the hunt for a reasonable priced metering valve and a new bubble counter. Looking for recommendations?


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## slipfinger

I'll be heading on vacation for 10 days starting on Friday. I will not have anyone looking after the tank, which means it will be completely on auto pilot.

The plan for the rest of the week is to mow down everything in the tank and reduce bio-load as much as I can. I'll switch out my Co2 tank with a new full tank, I don't want to have to worry about running out. Co2 will not change, it will remain at its current levels. Timers will be set to reduce photo period and I'll set the light to only run two bulbs.

Dosing will not be happening at all. My hope is by reducing plant mass, keeping the light intensity low and reducing the photo period, but keeping Co2 high the tank will survive the week with no care or nutrient dosing.

I finally gave up on the Rotala wallichii_, _pulled it all out except for a few 2" stems that seemed to be growing, for now anyway.



Replaced the wallichii with Cabomba 'purple'. I have never seen a plant pearl like this thing.



Posting a full tank shot for myself so I can compare this to when it gets its vacation trim. The limnophila sessiliflora will be removed. It grows too fast and leggy under the tanks current conditions, high everything. I'm going to leave a few stems in the tank so I can see how it responds to the lower light and no ferts. I'm sure it will grow how I want it to look, bushy and full.


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## slipfinger

Due to my vacation and the limited time over the next couple of days I decided today was probably the best day to get in the tank and hack and trim the crap out of everything. The picture is a little cloudy as I took it right after the water change.

I've been wanting to move a few plants around for a while now, figured what the hell! I moved the Hygrophila corymbosa from the left side to where the weedy limnophila sessiliflora was in the back right corner. I tossed the whole lot of limnophila sessiliflora in the trash. Note to local plant buddies. Please do not think you are doing me a solid by adding a few of these stems in with your trades, I DON'T want them, LOL!
I collected the random stems of Pantanal I had around the tank and combined them into their own little group were the Hygrophila corymbosa was. I started out with two wimpy stems of Pantanal, I now have seven wimpy individual stems plus one of the original ratty bottoms that now has about six little side shoots growing off it.

Its amazing how much plant material you can actually remove when you get in there and thin and trim everything. When all was said and done I ended up with an easy pound or more of trimmings and stems.

Just for reference the tongs in the picture are 8" long and the container is about 6" deep.


Over the next couple evenings I still need to clean my filter, replace my Co2 tank with my spare and do a final 50% water change. I'll probably change over the Co2 tank tonight once it shuts down so I have a few days to run it and work out any kinks before I leave.

Over all I am happy with the way most things are growing.

*Rotala macrandra* is still not growing all that well or at all. I topped any that seemed to look ok and tossed anything that was stunted. This little group of a dozen stems was only one really beat up stem a few months back.
I have one crown of *AR varigated* that is growing really well, the others not so well. I'm starting to think I need to hack them all down and remove all the old leaves except for the newest growth.

*AR mini* has responded well to the low micros. I'm still getting the odd twist in some of the new leaves, but for the most it is a 100% improvement.

*Limnophila aromatica* grows like a weed. It has great colour, but seems to grow with the current and never really stands up straight.

I love the look of what I think is *Pygmy Chain Sword* flowing across the top of the water on the left. I didn't really want to trim it but I also didn't want it to block any light from the *Pantanal*, so it got a haircut. May have to rethink the Pantanal's location.
My tissue cultures of *Pogostemon erectus*, *Hygrophila araguaia* and *Proserpinaca palustris* that I added to the tank just over three weeks ago are all doing really well.

*Pogostemon helferi *grows so well in my tank. I have never had any issues with it at all, I just leave it alone to do its thing. Last time I cleaned the group up I was able to sell about 50 crowns and still have a dozen left for myself to replant. Most of this group was suppose to be sold over the weekend, but both buyers stood me up.

Just some random shot of the tank from left to right.

Left Side


Center


Right Side


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## slipfinger

Ok, that basically gets the journal up to date. I hope you guys enjoy following along as I experiment and learn new things.

Feel free to comment, ask question and give recommendation.

All I ask is that we all learn something along the way........


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## infolific

So you're saying you didn't get enough limnophila sessiliflora from me the last time we met?  I still haven't given up on this plant. I continue to look for just the right spot for it where it'll grow as expected. 

I had some R. wallichii too at one point. I got it from someone that had his tank by the window. It grew beautifully for him, but fell apart in my tank.

I use EI as well and I'll be playing with the different components as soon as I've used up my existing premixed stuff. I'm not just looking for maximum plant growth though, but rather I watch my nitrates and TDS as a way to establish a balance of sorts that reduces the need for water changes. This also means doing small, more frequent trimmings vs. big ones.

Thanks for sharing!


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## cb1021

looks amazing.


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## slipfinger

@infolific Ha! Marios, you only gave me a couple small stems and they turned into 20+, 18" tall stems in 2 weeks. The stuffs a crazy weed in high light tanks. I love the look of it in my do nothing and I mean nothing at all low light 10gal tank. The nodes grow tight and it looks amazing. But on the other hand the Lobelia cardinalis 'mini' I love. Great plant with so much potential in a dutch scape. That made up for the all the extra work you caused me trimming and replanting the Limnophila sessiliflora daily. Just so it makes you feel better, you are not the only one out there, you all know who you are!

As for R. wallichii, I will beat this plant if its the last thing I do. I'm setting up my 40's when I get home from vacation, these will be my experimental/grow out tanks. So get ready for more trimmings of everything! 

@cb1021 thanks. I am still in the "Collectoritus" and growing stage, my goal is to grow lots of different plants well. Once i feel I have a handle on the horticultural side of the hobby, then I will start to focus on the scaping side.


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## Maple

Great tank - love the positioning of colour and texture. Lots of eye-candy.


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## default

Very nice looking tank and great plant selections.

I'm so glad there's more usage of the Lobelia Cardinalis "Dwarf", it's a beautiful plant and I would say that it's one of the best species to create a "street" with.


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## slipfinger

@Maple Thanks for the kind words. When I look at the tank, I see random groupings all over the place. At this point there is no rhyme or reason to there placement. Focusing on scaping and actually trying to produce something that resembles true 'dutch' is on the to do list. I have to get over this collectoritus phase first.

@default Thank-you as well. Means a lot coming from someone with your knowledge and abilities. Your 'Colour Therapy' Journal was what inspired my first attempt at a planted tank and peeked my interest in the dutch style. BTW, you sent me the AR 'mini' and the downoi, plus the few extra's to the left of them, Rotala sp. Green and ??. I will be honest, that's the best the AR 'mini' has ever looked since it entered my care.

29 gallon bow front, PFS over topsoil, Co2 and dual T5ho. 


This tank is still around and running, but all the hardscape has been removed and replaced with random plants. Tank will be taken down in the coming weeks and replaced by two 40gal breeders.


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## default

I'm absolutely flattered.
I'm very glad you dipped into the planted world, you clearly have a green thumb and this Dutch layout looks great.

I do remember now! After the last time we met, I thought your username seemed familiar, but couldn't pinpoint when/what. I'm very glad the plants did well for you!
AR Mini can be a little finicky sometimes, it can do amazing sometimes in extreme conditions, but other times, just by looking at it - it'll start dropping leaves or just stop growing and turn into a algae pad. 
The mystery plant is: Gratiola Viscidula
Great for a Dutch style.


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## slipfinger

Back from my ten day vacation. It's nice to be home but it also means back to reality and work!

Just a quick photo of the tank exactly as it looked when I turned the light on today. Remember tank had no maintenance or dosing while I was away. Co2 remained the same, only two lights came on for six hours a day.

I will do a full update later tonight, nothing really exciting but a few obvious standouts. Main standout, not a hint of algae other then a little dust on the front glass, which is normal.

No surprise here, but *low light plus low nutrients = less stress and worry*.

*The tank today*



*Before I left*


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## slipfinger

*Tank Update*

I can honestly say I was not at all surprised with the condition of the tank and what I found after ten days of being left on its own. More experienced growers has said it multiple times, low light + low nutrients = less work and a less issues. But what fun is that?

Before I left I knew Co2 would not be an issue and the ADA AS would have enough reserves for ten days, specially with the lower light. But I questioned how plants like Pantanal would fair and if AR varigated/mini would look better with low ferts.



Pantanal, I figured it would react in some way, and I was right. But surprised with the one stem that shot for the moon, while the rest looked spindly or had stunted tips. Of course they have lost some colour. From journals I've read, this is normal under low light and low nutrient conditions.



One stem of AR variegated is still going strong and the rest well........ they are there. The AR mini that I removed all the deformed leaves from, for the most part are growing fairly straight and flat. But the ones I have not trimmed are not doing much at all. Lobelia Cardinalis 'Dwarf' and Hygrophila 'araguaia' are looking good and are both ready for a thinning. Anyone know the name of the plant right behind the AR variegated?



Hygrophila corymbosa is showing very little if any signs of defiances, unlike just before I left. This alone makes me question why I want to drive this tank in the fast lane. Maybe I should operated the tank like I'm on a Sunday cruise with the top down!

Sorry for the washed out photos. I do no editing at all, straight from iphone to this journal.

Random pics of the tank.

*Left Side*


Tissue cultures of Pogostemon erectus are not complaining at all. Blyxa needs to be thinned out. Sold a few Pogostemon helferi just before I left, thats why the open space.

*Center *


I was amazed at the growth of the Mermaid weed, cant wait for this to colour up. My little plot of 'wallichii' beside the Mermaid Weed has not done much at all, I was hoping for more. These were all small unstunted stems I trimmed off the ugly bunch I throw away a couple weeks ago. Couple have even stunted despite no added nutrients and lower lighting.

*Right Side*


Cabomba 'purple' really coloured up. I will be interested to see this plant under high light and high nutrients. As mentioned already Lobelia Cardinalis 'Dwarf' and Hygrophila 'araguaia' are doing great. I think they look good beside each other and I actually like the look of this side of the tank the best, good combination of colour and texture.

I'm glad I'm home and I have already turned the tank up to 100%, don't know why. Someone needs to slap me silly and knock some sense into me. I look forward to working on my new project in the coming weeks, two 40 gallon grow tanks. I will start a journal on this project in the near future. 
Thanks again for following along.


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## slipfinger

I was finally able to get my hands on a par meter (thanks Red at the Coral Reef Shop in Burlington). Can't say I am surprised by the numbers near the bottom of the tank with all six bulbs blazing, which I run daily for 4 hours. Its an eye opener though as you raise it closer to the surface and it gets into the mid to high 500's.

I am going take some reading over the week end with different bulbs, and different fixture heights. I'll post my readings for future reference.


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## slipfinger

I've been wanting to hang my fixture for a long time. Mainly so I could play around with light intensity and it would also allow me to raise the fixture up and out of the way to make it easier to do maintenance on the inside of the tank. My old setup with the fixture sitting on top of the tank gave me limited access to really get in and move things around.

So I ordered some wire hanging kits and was able to get them installed and hung this morning.

I am really happy with the outcome, it makes everything looks so much cleaner and accessing the tank is so much easier. I am now blaming my old setup on my crappy scaping skills, we'll soon see!


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## slipfinger

*Update*

What a treat todays maintenance was without the bloody fixture in way, having front, side and top views to plant makes a such huge difference. I took the opportunity to remove all the plants from the right 1/3 of the tank and deep vacuum the soil. I reduced the amount of plant material in the area and gave every one a little more elbow room.

Once the Pogostemon erectus grows out more I well move somewhere towards the middle/back of the tank. Anyone have any ideas? I am slowly but surely building up my stock of Pantanal stems. Can't wait to have enough to actually plant a larger group of it. If anyone has a secret to get Limnophillia aromatica to grow straight let me know. I love the plant but it is all over the damn place, tank current doesn't help much. The regular AR is still looking descent, little bit of GSA on the older leaves but, leaves are still straight and flat.



I still need to work on the middle and right side, which really needs things moved around and thinned out.



I decided to add 4ppm MgSO4 today with my water change, just because. Figured I'd add some after water changes for a few weeks to see what it does if anything. I have never added Mg or Ca after water changes, with my tap water I figured I didn't need it. Might start messing around with adding both in the coming weeks, can't hurt.

Im currently dosing .1ppm Fe DTPA and .5ppm Mn along with 20 ml of Flourish Trace 3 days a week and 1/2tsp (7.3ppm) KNO3 and 1/4 (3.4ppm) KH2PO4 on the other days.

I started dosing an extra .1ppm Fe DTPA earlier this week to see if it would help with my Pogostemon helferi which seems to be showing a deficiency in only a few of the plants. The white centres of a few of the plants is in the pictures above, is not the lighting. The plants center is actually white.

Anyone experience this before or have any ideas?





Finally the FTS. Position of new light makes it harder to take quick and easy pictures without reflections.


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## cb1021

Incredible tank.


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## slipfinger

I mentioned above that some of the newest growth on P. helferi is coming in white. Unless I have discovered a new rare species which I will name, Pogostemon helferi 'white', I believe I have a new deficiency in the tank.





I did a little searching on the line and read many difference reasons why new growth is coming in white.

Low Iron
Low N
Low P
Low K
Low Mg
Low Ca
Low Micro's
Low Light
Low Co2
So, what can I conclude from this little research project? Short answer, my tank is doomed!

All joking a side, I'd like to get to the bottom of this little mystery.

My current dosing.

Macros x 3 days
7.5ppm KNO3
3.4ppm KH2PO4
I do not add extra K
6ppm MgSO4 (for the first time after my last water change Aug.13. Tap has ~9ppm)

Micros x 3 days
.2ppm Fe DTPA (Started adding an extra .1ppm Aug 7th)
.05ppm Mn

20ml of Flourish Trace (Which Rotala Butterfly says adds)
Mn 0.005988
B 0.001972
Co 0.000021
Cu 0.002254
Mo 0.000211
Ni 0.000002
Zn 0.011905
Rb 0.000006
V 0.000001

Co2 - ~1.4/5 point drop
Light - Blinding, see my above par readings at the sub.

On paper everything looks to be in order except for a couple trace elements being on the low side of EI levels. This being B and Mo. I could also be low in Ca, I do not add any extra as my tap says it has ~35ppm.

Could this simply be a delayed reaction to no dosing for 10 days while I was on vacation?

Anyone have an ideas?


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## slipfinger

Not really related to this journal but here's a sneak peek at my current project.

First of two 40 gallon breeder grow out/experimental tanks on a Lowes shelving units. The lower tank has ADA AS. I'm still undecided on the sub for the upper tank. I'm considering going inert like PFS so I can experiment a little. I still have a couple 9L bags of AS so still might go that direction as well. Both tanks will have identical Co2 systems, quad T5HO fixtures with the ability to run only two bulbs or all four, Marineland 220 filter and a hydro Koralia 425 for circulation. Basically I am trying to keep everything equal, for the sake of experimenting. I still have a bunch of stuff to do before I add water, including purchase the second tank. I'll start a journal once I have everything completely setup and running.


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## infolific

slipfinger said:


> I did a little searching on the line and read many difference reasons why new growth is coming in white.
> 
> Low Iron
> Low N
> Low P
> Low K
> Low Mg
> Low Ca
> Low Micro's
> Low Light
> Low Co2


You forgot low flow 

I don't have an answer for you, but I had white appear on mine too. It went away without me doing anything specific to address it although at the time I was playing around with different things.


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## cb1021

Wow you got a green thumb. Tank looks great. Watch out for lack of maintenance time after setting up more tanks. That first one is high maintenance, is it?


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## slipfinger

cb1021 said:


> Wow you got a green thumb. Tank looks great. Watch out for lack of maintenance time after setting up more tanks. That first one is high maintenance, is it?


Thanks cb.

Fairly high maintenance yes, but really it works out to be only a few hours a week. I probably spend more time just looking at then doing maintenance.

The grow out tanks are in the far corners of the basement, not worried about looks at all, just all about growing plants and killing plants. Maintenance will be the basics.


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## slipfinger

Since I have to return the par meter this weekend I figured I better take a few measurements for future reference. The higher number is of course with all 6 bulbs on. The lower number is with just 2 bulbs on, that being the front 6400K Sunblaster and back Giesemann AquaFlora. *I will update with the exact height the fixture sits off the top of the tank.

Picture for reference.

_
*Bulbs:* _From front to back

6400K Sunblaster
Zoo Med Flora Sun
6400K Sunblaster
6400K Sunblaster
ATI Blue Plus ?
Giesemann AquaFlora



Side view for front to back reference. To be expected the layout of the bulbs effects the par readings. For example I am getting higher readings at the front of the tank compared to the rear of the tank due to having 2 - 6500K bulbs in the front half of the fixture.


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## slipfinger

*Update
*
FTS (water still a little cloudy after water change).


Maintenance day! Decide to spend some time rescaping the right 1/3 of the tank, some time being four hours. I yanked everything out on the right and gave the AS a deep vacuum, what a bloody mess. Also cleaned the filter and all the pipes, Fe Gluconate really makes a mess of the filter piping.

Tank was really starting to get over grown, I was starting to see hair algae on the Pantanal and Hygrophila corymbosa. I think flow in the tank was one of the main factors but I also messed around in the tank the other day and didn't have time for a water change. I only planned on moving a couple plants to make room for a few Eriocaulon cinereum, but ended up yanking all the AR and lobelia which stirred up the sub more than I would have liked.



The Proserpinaca palustris (mermaid weed) which I planted as a tissue culture back on July 10th was finally ready to be moved. I trimmed down the Cabomba 'purple/red' and organized and replanted all the stems. I picked and cleaned all the deformed ratty leaves off both the AR 'mini' and AR 'variegated', having the grow out tank is so nice since I can throw all the left overs in that tank to sell or use in the future. As mentioned above I made some room for my newly acquired Eriocaulon cinereum, my first try at Erio's fingers crossed they do ok. I really need to work on the middle part of the tank. Pogostemon erectus is ready to be moved, not to sure where it will be going but I've got a week to plan it out. I'm thinking Pogostemon gayi might be getting the hook. I want to get the Pantanal moved to the middle of the tank way from Pygmy Chain Sword. It will probably trade places with the L. Aromatica/Hippuridoides not sure which it actually is.



Not to sure why I am punishing these ratty looking stems of Rotala wallichii, I should just put them out of their misery. Poor things are covered in Hair algae and BBA, they are basically sitting there on life support. Probably going to be moving them over to the grow out tank which has new Aqua Soil, rich Co2, good lighting and no dosing.



Pogostemon Erectus doing well.



Pogostemon helferi growing gang busters since I spread them out and gave them some elbow room. Couple are still showing signs of deficiency but growing like mad, so I'm not to worried.



Random shots






The 40b grow out tank already full of plants, still have more to fit in there. The second tank might be needed sooner than later.


----------



## slipfinger

Update on dosing.

I've decided to give urea a try at .25ppm per day.

Current dosing will look like this.

Macros
1/3 tsp KNO3 5ppm
1/4 tsp KH2PO4 3.5ppm
1/4 tsp K2SO4 2.5ppm
.25ppm urea

Micros
.2ppm Fe DTPA
.1ppm Mn (more than I need but trying to keep the 2-1 ratio)
20ml Flourish Trace
.025ppm extra Boron

I finally ordered all the individual elements to mix my own trace mix. Once they come in, I will be following EI traces to start with.

On another topic, I was sick of my Fabco needle valve giving me fits, so I updated to a Hoke 3100 series metering valve. This valve is unbelievable, I can literally dial it down to 1 bubble every 2 secs if I wanted. But of course I have bubbles racing through it an uncountable rate.


----------



## cb1021

What's the val on left side of.main tank. Looks great.


----------



## slipfinger

cb1021 said:


> What's the val on left side of.main tank. Looks great.


Dwarf sag (not joking) and thanks.


----------



## slipfinger

Update time.



This last week I've notice a little hair algae here and there around the tank. BBA has also popped up on some older growth and on the ends of the Dwarf Sagittaria (I believe) in the back left corner that I trimmed a while ago. I've been really stirring up the sub the last couple of maintenance days, pulling all the plants and deep vacuuming a 1/3 of the tank to remove mulm and such. I'm guessing this is probably the reason for the 'outbreak'. I cleaned the filter and replaced the poly wool both times the day after I really mucked around, in hopes of keeping the organics down. My plan was to remove all the plants and vacuum the middle 1/3 of the tank today but ended up just leaving it because I wasn't sure how I wanted replace everything and was also worried about causing more algae. I'll do a couple of water changes this week and let things settle do before tackling the middle. I want to thin out the Bacopa or remove it completely but I currently do not have anything to replace it with. Any thoughts on what to do or plant?

Below you can see the amount of built up mulm in the area I have not vacuumed compared to the area I've deep vacuumed.




I decided it was time to move the L. hippuridoides, I was sick of it growing all over the place and looking like azz. I also need a place for the Pogostemon erectus and figured I could kill two birds with one stone.. I kept three stems of L. hippuridoides in the 75 just because and replanted them between the Proserpinaca palustris and Ludwigia palustris.
Panatanl doing ok, still a couple tips that stunt for what ever reason. I need to top and replant those couple of stems that look out of place, but I'm letting it grow out. The amount of stems are steadily increasing week by week, not too bad to say I started with two wimpy looking stems.





I'm really happy with the growth and look of the AR mini, its not perfect by any means. But, it was not long ago that its leaves were stunted, twisted and full of GSA. I've started to really fuss over them, trimming, picking and cleaning leaves that look bad. I think this has been a big part of the turn.



Lastly the 40b is getting a little crowded already. Some of the helferi and Hygrophila 'araguaia' melted for what ever reason. Im not to concerned, there is a fair amount of new growth just going to take time. I had a buyer for some of the Hygrophila 'araguaia', but decided to hold off and let it grow out before selling. I am not dosing the tank at all, just letting it do its own thing for a bit.


----------



## slipfinger

​Moved a few things around which allowed me the chance to finally vacuum around the Bacopa, the mulm build up along the glass was driving me crazy.

I still have a few things to shape and move, including shifting the Lobelia so it curls in behind the H araguaia and continues a little further to the right. The left and the right sides in the front still need some work.

For the left I want to remove the regular AR poking up behind the Blxya and try the Nesaea Pedicellata 'golden' in that area, thats if it survives in the grow out tank.

As for the right, the helferi is being sold so it's just there temporally. The Rotala Mac will be removed, going to try and source Penthorum sediodes to replace it. AR variegated is going to replace the AR mini I just moved. Might move a small group of AR mini somewhere in front of the what ever ends up on the front right side.

The plan is to move the last few things this weekend, then let everything grow out.

I also want to play around with my lighting. As it stands now, all six bulbs are only on for four hours a day and only two bulbs are on for the other four hours. I posted par readings a few posts back. I'm considering switching it so all six bulbs are running for a long time frame, maybe six hours but raise the light up so i'm only getting 100 to 120 par at sub. Currently six bulbs are giving me 160+ par at sub. I want to see if the longer photo period with less par will colour up my Pantanal a little more, sounds ass backwards but.............

I'd be interested to hear what others par readings are at sub and how long your photo period is at that par.


----------



## Poseidon

Looks awesome! For whatever reason I can't get my helferi to produce luscious crowns. They look healthy, they keep producing new plantlets, but they certainly don't have the size of yours. Super jelly.


----------



## slipfinger

Moved a couple things to see how they look. Water is a little cloudy, took the picture before my water change.



I moved the AR mini out and replaced it with AR variegated. Not to sure what to think! It may look better if I add a few stems of P. erectus between it and the Pantanal.

I temporally added the Nesaea Pedicellata 'golden' behind the Blyxa japonica to see how the contrast would look, I think if I can grow it out enough for a full grouping it would look good. Problem is 'golden's' not doing so hot, slowly melting on me. I'm hoping trying to grow it out in the 75 is the answer.

Farming some helferi on the right side, got an order for 20 stems, need to grow a few quickly in less then two weeks.

Right side is still a work in progress.

Thats about it..


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## Aceman21

Looks amazing


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## slipfinger

Aceman21 said:


> Looks amazing


Thanks Ace!


----------



## Aceman21

slipfinger said:


> Thanks Ace!


I'm going to be trying my hand at a Dutchish style tank soon myself.


----------



## slipfinger

I was collecting a few Pogostemon helferi to sell and just had to post this. This thing is huge.



Iphone 6 for size comparison.


----------



## slipfinger

I've fallen a little behind in the updates on here.

Moved a few things around.



The Pantanal was being shaded by the Sagittarius floating over top of it so I switched it with the Mermaid weed. I am not happy with the right side at all, way too much red. I picked up some Ambulia which is in the right front corner still transitioning from being emersed. My plan is to replace something red on the right side with the Ambulia which will add a little more green to that side of the tank. I still need to sort out the front right corner. I have a couple ideas and ordered a few different plants which will be here next week to try in that corner.

I also ordered a couple new bulbs to try, Hortilux PowerVeg 633 and 660. These are both very high in the red spectrum. It will be interesting to see how they look in combination with my other bulbs. I'm thinking on replacing the 6500K (fourth bulb from the left) with the ATI blue and putting one of the PowerVeg bulbs where the ATI blue was.



PowerVeg 633









PowerVeg 660









This looks like an interesting bulb Full Spectrum plus UV. Basically I could get a nice tan while doing tank maintenance.


----------



## slipfinger

I've been away on my annual canoe/kayak trip since Wednesday morning, where I spent 4 night and 5 days sleeping under the stars and paddle the lakes and rivers of Algonquin Park. Of course while I am paddling around I always have my eyes focused on the water and what aquatic plants I might find. I didn't get many pictures while while out on the water but I was amazed by some of the 6' + long Vallisneria flowing along the surface. I did find a few eriocaulon along the shore of one of the sites we stayed at. Anyone know what variety these are?

​
Back to my tank.

I got a call Wednesday morning from the place I ordered my new bulbs from and he informs me they are in but....... one of the bulbs was broken during shipping so he ordered another one which is suppose to be in mid this week and they are not going to charge me for it because of the issues. Gotta like that.

I am always amazed at the growth of the tank when you don't see it for a few days. I am going to have to spend a couple hours tomorrow night reducing the bio-load in the tank.

​
On another topic, I throw a couple of old ratty algae infested Wallichii in the 40b I set up a month and a week with AquaSoil. It has only received a couple drops of Fe and thats about it since the tank was set up.

Here is a picture of the stems in my 75g.


Here are the same stems today in one of the 40 with just new AS.


That's all I really have to share at the moment. I'll post another update after I do some trimming and cleaning.


----------



## Poseidon

Stunning, as usual! Keep up whatever you're doing!


----------



## slipfinger

This week has been nuts work wise. I've been putting in 15 hour days, leaving the house at 4am and and not getting home till after 9pm.

The tank is in need of a major trim, bio-load is extremely high atm. It won't be until Sunday before I can jump in there and pull, pluck and prune. I have not noticed any algae yet, but I'm sure if things don't get cleaned up asap it will rear its ugly head. Pantanal is not happy, lots of complaining. I missed a couple days throwing pellets into the tank for the shrimp. When the little buggers get hunger, AR takes a hit.

I did get a chance last night to quickly throw the PowerVeg 633 into my fixture. I still need to mess around with where it will end up in the batting order, thinking of moving it to first or second in the rotation to see if it will create a little depth in the tank. I throw it in the back for the time being to see what it looked like, didn't get much time to really evaluate the look of the tank. It sure does throw off a red/pink color, the back wall in the picture is normally yellow.

Before:


After


----------



## slipfinger

Finally got a chance to get my elbows wet. Because of being so busy with work last week the tank didn't get any attention at all.

I moved a bunch of things around. I am not happy with the current look atm, but maybe once it grows in it will grow on me. I figure I'm not going to get better if I don't try different things and experiment with different plants in different locations.

I decided to move the Sagittarius out, not to sure how I feel about that move. I replaced it with Ambulia, which is growing a lot slower than I thought it would. Maybe once the Ambulia grows in I might like it a little better.

Moved the Cabomba 'purple/red' out to try and reduce the amount of taller red plants on the right side of the tank. I moved the Pantanal back to the left side and brought the Mermaid back which needs to thicken up.

Reduced the amount of Lobelia so I could make some room for AR mini. Didn't bring it back for scaping purposes but to see how it will manage in the 75. In the past when dosing CSM+B it was stunted with twisted leaves. Since the AR has been in my grow out tanks with just new AS and no added nutrients it have grown almost damn near perfect.

Added Hygro 'compact' in the front right. Mainly so it will grow out, not to sure what the plan is for it. I'm thinking of removing the AR 'rosanervig' I've never really liked the look of it and its not really growing, its just there.

About two weeks ago I added a couple flourish root tabs under the Hygrophila 'Siamensis 53B' to see if it would help it along, and it worked. It has not been this dense and thick for a very long time.

I still need to reduce the Pogo 'erectus' and 'gayi', but I have no room what so ever left in either of my 40's.

Before.....


After.....


----------



## slipfinger

As mentioned in my last post, AR mini has made a return to the weed farm. Posting a photo so I can document its demise.

Note: The AR is coming out of a 4 week old (new AquaSoil) tank that has had *ZERO* added nutrients.

For the record my current micro dosing, 3 x week:
.1ppm Fe Gluconate
.1ppm DTPA Fe
.06ppm Mn as Manganese Sulphate
.003ppm Cu as Copper Sulphate
.011ppm Zn as Zinc Sulphate
.002ppm Mo as Sodium Molybdate
.025ppm Bo as Borax


----------



## slipfinger

Ok everything is up to date. This Journal is actual over on Barr Report and I just copy and paste it here for those that are interested. I sometime forget that is why the multiple post that don't seem to follow a timeline.

Here is a current as of last night FTS.



Pantanal doing just fine atm....


----------



## Aceman21

Man that’s some nice work. I’ll be staring my Dutch tank soon and I hope to have it half as nice as yours


----------



## slipfinger

*Update*

One thing I have learned in this hobby is, consistency is very important! When you get off schedule, be it dosing, water changes or regular trimming, plants are quick to start complaining.

Leading up to this past week the tanks have played second fiddle to 'life'. Between working long hours and being away my regular dosing and husbandry routine has been no existent . This past week the tank has been back to its regular routine and I have quickly noticed the improvements. Not a single stem of Pantanal is complaining, Giant Ambulia is finally starting to grow now that its seeing regular dosing again.







Couple of plants are still complaining. This may or may not be because of the lack of attention.

AR 'rosanervig'. This is a tough demanding plant. I've had it in the tank for 3/4 months now and it has never really done all that good. It grows and has nice colour but some plants have stunted and twisted leaves.



Mermaid Weed (Proserpinaca Palustris), It grows nice and colours up nice, but there are always a couple stems out of the bunch that develop stunted and twisted tips.



Hygrophila 'Siamensis 53B' has the odd twisted leaf. When it twist the leaves also turn a red colour.



Couple of random FTS.


----------



## slipfinger

A week ago a decided to throw some AR 'mini' back into 75 to see how it would do. Low and behold it is growing damn near perfect. For now, if you look close enough there are signs of trouble ahead, leaves curling under and maybe one or two leaves with a little wave in them.

Planted on Oct 3rd.


Today.


I listed my current micro dosing a couple post above.

My macro dosing is as follow 3x week.

1/3tsp Kno3 5ppm
1/4tsp Kh2po4 3.5ppm
1/3tsp K2so4 3.3ppm. just because.
.25 ppm Urea x 3

Lately (about a month) I've been adding a 1/2tps .9ppm MgSO4.7H2O after any water change.


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## charlie1

Thanks for sharing, tank is looking good!


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## slipfinger

Very quick update.

Finally got my hands on the PowerVeg 660. For those that thought the 633 was red this bulb is really red. Things will probably look different when I actually get a chance to move bulbs around. I am not planning to run both red bulbs at once, but throw it in the fixture to see the difference.

Before with 2 flora bulbs.


After with 660 and Flora.




All six bulbs with just the 633.


All six bulbs including the 633 and 660.


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## Poseidon

Love it! I need to get some red bulbs. My LED just ain't producing the colours you've got...


----------



## slipfinger

Been a bit since I updated....
Spent a good four hours yesterday cleaning and organizing the 75 and the two 40's.

Before.


After


I decided to removed the Bacopa 'compact' which had been in the 75 for over 6 months. I could not believe the size of it when I actually got it out of the tank.

Not the best picture, but you get the idea.


Now here is the issue, what do I plant in its place????

I removed the Hygro 'siamensis' and felt really creative so I replaced it with............ Hygro 'corymbosa'. The leaves on this sucker are going to be massive.



About a month ago I purchased Nymphoides hydrophylla 'Taiwan' in a tissue culture. After a rough start I was able to nurse a single plant out of about 5 I planted. I decided to move it over to the 75 to continue to grow it out. I've always like the look of the plant and wanted to try in the 75 as a focal point. I am completely stumped on where to work it into the scape, anyone have any suggestions?



AR 'mini' is showing more signs of not being happy. Last week was not the best week for dosing, I think I only dosed micros once and macros twice. I did just add my second dose of Ca and Mg this past water change, and work is slowing down, dosing should be back to normal this week. We wait and see.



On a positive note Pantanal is doing great...



Finally a parting shot of the 40's.


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## Aceman21

Looks amazing


----------



## infolific

slipfinger said:


> About a month ago I purchased Nymphoides hydrophylla 'Taiwan' in a tissue culture [...] I am completely stumped on where to work it into the scape, anyone have any suggestions?


I have parts in my tank that are shaded because of hardscape (wood). I use the Nymphoides hydrophylla 'Taiwan' in such spots because the bottom part of the stems where there are no leaves don't require light and the taller leaves can hang over the hardscape. I don't see hardscape in your tanks so this is probably of no help 

On a more helpful note, if yours behaves like mine you'll be getting little plantlets regularly. I've got a few as we speak that I need to pull out.


----------



## slipfinger

I moved a few foreground plants around to fill in the open space left from removing the Bacopa 'compact'. I'm going to try and fill in the front left corner with a dense planting of Blyxa japonica and the front right with Lobelia Cardinalis 'small form'. I spread the helferi out and brought the Staurogyne repens out of the right corner and into the middle of the tank. I want to try and grow all the foreground plants so they produce a very dense planting all the way across the front of the tank.

I am experimenting with the Nymphoides coming out of the middle of the Ludwigia palustris. Not sure how it will look, never know unless I try. Both the Giant Ambulia and Hygrophila 'corymbosa' are on their way out. Not a day goes by I don't find a stem or two of the Ambulia stuck to the circulation pump. It gets so big so fast it doesn't even have time to grow roots and just floats away. The corymbosa has such big leaves it just seems out of place, I much prefer the narrower leaves of the 'siamensis'.

Just after water change. 


Just after adding Ca and Mg. Calcium sulphate clouds water, it is all clear by the time the lights come on next day.


Starting the 3rd week of adding Mg and Ca to the tank at 4ppm Mg and 12ppm Ca. No real improvement of the AR. I started trimming out some of the stunted and twisted leaves in hopes the new leaves will grow in without issue.

As most people all ready know Pantanal is such a pain in the ass. This whole past week, it was growing like gang busters, tops were big, beautiful with amazing color. Come home from work on Friday and bunch of the tips had started to ball up and stunt. Did not miss a single day of dosing, Co2 did not change, growth in the tank was not that bad, so what gives?



Pantanal mid week.


Pantanal Friday afternoon, not happy.


----------



## slipfinger

Not much new to report with the tank. Between trading plants, experimenting with different plants and adding some of my nemesis back into the tank to see how they fair, the tank has kinda became a grow out/holding tank of sorts the last couple weeks.



I knew Hygrophila 'corymbosa' regular was a big plant, but this thing is actually a monster. Once I find someone to take it off my hands it will be removed from the tank, I can't imagine the resources it's using.





AR mini doing not to bad. You'll notice the lighter colored plants with the nice straight leaves at the front of the grouping. I added those after last weeks water change. I'll keep an eye on these newer plants to see how long before they start to act up.


----------



## characinfan

Love following along on your plant adventures! Beautiful stuff.


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## slipfinger

characinfan said:


> Love following along on your plant adventures! Beautiful stuff.


Thanks for following along.....


----------



## slipfinger

I was asked on another site about my current Par readings and my current dosing. I figured I'd posted the info here as well, just in case someone is interested.

I have not had a chance to check Par of this current bulb arrangement. I am using a very similar bulb arrangement as a couple of members of other sites, using their data I am guessing I'm somewhere in the neighbourhood of 110-120 maybe even a little higher at sub level. 

This past weekend I made a few small changes to my dosing.

I stopped adding Fe Gluconate (actually been a couple weeks now). For no other reason than I was sick of cleaning the brown build up in my filter tubing, which I think was coming from the Fe Gluconate.
I upped my DTPA Fe to .15ppm instead of just .1ppm. So I actually reduce my Fe dosing by .05ppm. I'll keep an eye on this and adjust with extra DTPA Fe if needed. 

I mixed up a months worth of macros and micros, so I am not tempted to switch things up without giving it enough time to see actual changes if there are any.

I make my own micro mix using the individual ingredients found in CSM+B minus the chelating agents. 

Micros before
.1ppm Fe Gluconate
.1ppm DTPA Fe
.06ppm Mn as Manganese Sulphate
.003ppm Cu as Copper Sulphate
.011ppm Zn as Zinc Sulphate
.002ppm Mo as Sodium Molybdate
.025ppm Bo as Borax

Current
.15ppm DTPA Fe
.06ppm Mn as Manganese Sulphate
.003ppm Cu as Copper Sulphate
.011ppm Zn as Zinc Sulphate
.002ppm Mo as Sodium Molybdate
.025ppm Bo as Borax

I normally dry dose my Macros, but I felt like being a mad scientist and decided to mix up a macro solution this time round.
I bumped up my KNO3 from 5ppm to 6ppm because I stopped dosing urea daily and now only dose it on Macro day's. I lowered KH2PO4 a couple weeks ago to normal EI levels, I was dosing 3x EI for no real reason. So far everything seems to be going good.

Before
1/3tsp Kno3 5ppm
1/4tsp Kh2po4 3.5ppm
1/3tsp K2so4 3.3ppm. just because.
.25ppm Urea

Current
6ppm KNO3
1.3ppm KH2PO4
an extra 2.2ppm K2SO4 for a total of 7.5ppm
.25ppm Urea

Once a week after water changes.
12ppm Ca
4ppm Mg


----------



## Professor Monkey

Looks amazing. I love all of the colours and multitude of species in Dutch tanks, and yours is so vibrant!

All that trimming, fiddling, and dosing to get everything just right.... thanks for all that work so that I can enjoy the pictures without the hassle lol.


----------



## slipfinger

Been a while since I updated the journal.

With the new rimless tank setup on the horizon the 75 has basically gone to shit. It has become an over grown, grow out tank over the last month. I will be completely tearing it down in the coming weeks and moving it into the laundry room with the two 40's.



Two weeks ago I decided to lower my light intensity, first and last hour of my 8h photo period consists of 2 super flora's the other six hours is one ZooMed Flora, Power Veg 630, 3000K and ATI purple.

Pantanal is not happy at all. Majority of the tips are stunted, tips that are not stunted are small and colorless. I am not to sure if its from the lower light or my current dosing or even a combination of the two. Dosing change (ABOVE) was .1ppm DTPA Fe and .1pmm Fe Gluconate to .15ppm DTPA Fe. I'm going to leave the light as is and try add .1ppm Fe Gluconate to my micro dosing starting tomorrow.



What I think is Nesaea crassicaulis is turning out to be a very nice looking plant, the peach/pink colour looks amazing. The first side shoot finally popped out on Saturday, you can see it just to the right of the main stem. I hoping it continues to do this as I'd love to see a grouping of this plant in the new rimless.



With Black Friday sales going on I decided to grab a couple more bags of Aquasoil for the new build. Tissue culture cups happened to be 2 for 1, couldn't help myself and grabbed a cup of Utricularia graminifolia and Eriocaulon setaceum.



New build is coming along. Finished the stand this past weekend and picked up the skins this evening. I basically have everything on hand except for the light fixture, which I was holding off on hoping it might go on sale today with it being Cyber Monday and all, but no luck. I'm going with another 6 bulb T5HO hydroponics fixture. I considered buying a couple of SB Reef LEDs but have had good success with T5's, figured no need to change.


----------



## iamaloner

slipfinger said:


> Been a while since I updated the journal.
> 
> With the new rimless tank setup on the horizon the 75 has basically gone to shit. It has become an over grown, grow out tank over the last month. I will be completely tearing it down in the coming weeks and moving it into the laundry room with the two 40's.
> 
> 
> 
> Two weeks ago I decided to lower my light intensity, first and last hour of my 8h photo period consists of 2 super flora's the other six hours is one ZooMed Flora, Power Veg 630, 3000K and ATI purple.
> 
> Pantanal is not happy at all. Majority of the tips are stunted, tips that are not stunted are small and colorless. I am not to sure if its from the lower light or my current dosing or even a combination of the two. Dosing change (ABOVE) was .1ppm DTPA Fe and .1pmm Fe Gluconate to .15ppm DTPA Fe. I'm going to leave the light as is and try add .1ppm Fe Gluconate to my micro dosing starting tomorrow.
> 
> 
> 
> What I think is Nesaea crassicaulis is turning out to be a very nice looking plant, the peach/pink colour looks amazing. The first side shoot finally popped out on Saturday, you can see it just to the right of the main stem. I hoping it continues to do this as I'd love to see a grouping of this plant in the new rimless.
> 
> 
> 
> With Black Friday sales going on I decided to grab a couple more bags of Aquasoil for the new build. Tissue culture cups happened to be 2 for 1, couldn't help myself and grabbed a cup of Utricularia graminifolia and Eriocaulon setaceum.
> 
> 
> 
> New build is coming along. Finished the stand this past weekend and picked up the skins this evening. I basically have everything on hand except for the light fixture, which I was holding off on hoping it might go on sale today with it being Cyber Monday and all, but no luck. I'm going with another 6 bulb T5HO hydroponics fixture. I considered buying a couple of SB Reef LEDs but have had good success with T5's, figured no need to change.


Still looks fucking gorge lol
Can I get a plant ID bottom right please.

Sent from my PH-1 using Tapatalk


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## slipfinger

If you mean the red plant in the front. Alternanthera reineckii 'Mini'

If it’s the green one, Lobelia Cardinalis 'small form'


----------



## slipfinger

Tank had become overgrown over the last couple of weeks, decided it was time to get my elbows wet and the laundry room floor wet as well. I didn't notice the the laundry tub drain was blocked by my surface skimmer sponge and while draining the tank a small flood ensued. My son was the one that noticed it and says to me, "Ah. Yo. Dad. Like, did you know the sink in, like the laundry room is, like over flowing?" Anyways, thank god for all the dirty towels on the floor waiting to go into the laundry machine.

I was holding off on trimming this tank as I wanted to use some of the trimming to plant out the new tank, but its still a couple weeks away and I can't stand to look at the overgrown jungle that is the 75. When all was said and done I trimmed out enough plant material to half fill a 5 gallon bucket. I have absolutely no room in any of my tanks for more trimmings, it pains me to toss everything in the garbage, but I manned up and did the right thing.... I filled the 5 gallon bucket with tank water and now have a bunch of trimming being housed in a bucket. When will it ever end?!

Before


After


If you look closely at the after picture you'll notice a few new additions to the tank, and it's not plant material this time. I was at my LFS yesterday and could not resist the $1/fish sale. So I got myself a dozen Serpae Tetra's, 3 Rummynose and 6 Oto Cats. So far so good, and I'm returning today to grab a dozen or so more Serpae's after work today, so much for being basically fishless!

Like a few others, Greggz and burr740 from Barr Report and The Planted Tank, I am experimenting with higher levels of micros basically the same as Burr's homebrew micro mix V5.15. Below is my current micro dosing.

3/4 x per week
.30 ppm DTPA Fe
.075 ppm Mn as Manganese Sulphate
.002 ppm Cu as Copper Sulphate
.03 ppm Zn as Zinc Sulphate
.002 ppm Mo as Sodium Molybdate
.04 ppm Bo as Borax

Pantanal on November 27th


Pantanal after yesterdays trim December 03


Here is a current picture of my AR. Regular AR in the back and mini up front. You'll notice the regular AR is growing nice and flat, no visible stunting at all. On the other if you look at the AR mini you will notice a few twisted and stunted leaves.



Ammania gracilis I believe? still looking great. Currently my favourite plant in the tank!

November 16


December 03


As mentioned above the new tank build is coming along but is still a couple weeks out. Over the weekend I was able to installed the outer skins and in cabinet LED lighting to finish off the stand. My new 4 bulb T5HO light fixture was delivered, I picked up a couple of Eheim canister filters and 7 bags of ADA AquaSoil. I still need to make my Co2 reactor, pick up an inline heater and a circulation pump. I'm still not 100% sure if I am going to go will lily pipes or just the stock spray bar. I also have to figure out what I am going to do for a background on the new tank, paint it black or use some sort of black background. Anyone have any suggestions?

In all honesty I though it was a great idea to get this new tank, but in hindsight I have no clue why I am subjecting myself to all this extra work. I am not looking forward to draining the current 75, moving it and the stand to the laundry room, than having to set it all back up again. Once that is all done then I get to go through the whole process of setting up the new tank in the current 75's location. My wife has been a trooper through all this, not really asking many question and even helping me move the new stand from the garage to basement. She didn't even blink an eye when she heard a knock on the door and opened it up to find the UPS driver standing there holding my brand new 48" T5HO fixture and four brand new bulbs. Honestly I'm a little worried, things are just a little too quiet! I'm hoping to have everything moved and up and running in the next couple weeks.


----------



## iamaloner

slipfinger said:


> Tank had become overgrown over the last couple of weeks, decided it was time to get my elbows wet and the laundry room floor wet as well. I didn't notice the the laundry tub drain was blocked by my surface skimmer sponge and while draining the tank a small flood ensued. My son was the one that noticed it and says to me, "Ah. Yo. Dad. Like, did you know the sink in, like the laundry room is, like over flowing?" Anyways, thank god for all the dirty towels on the floor waiting to go into the laundry machine.
> 
> I was holding off on trimming this tank as I wanted to use some of the trimming to plant out the new tank, but its still a couple weeks away and I can't stand to look at the overgrown jungle that is the 75. When all was said and done I trimmed out enough plant material to half fill a 5 gallon bucket. I have absolutely no room in any of my tanks for more trimmings, it pains me to toss everything in the garbage, but I manned up and did the right thing.... I filled the 5 gallon bucket with tank water and now have a bunch of trimming being housed in a bucket. When will it ever end?!
> 
> Before
> 
> 
> After
> 
> 
> If you look closely at the after picture you'll notice a few new additions to the tank, and it's not plant material this time. I was at my LFS yesterday and could not resist the $1/fish sale. So I got myself a dozen Serpae Tetra's, 3 Rummynose and 6 Oto Cats. So far so good, and I'm returning today to grab a dozen or so more Serpae's after work today, so much for being basically fishless!
> 
> Like a few others, Greggz and burr740 from Barr Report and The Planted Tank, I am experimenting with higher levels of micros basically the same as Burr's homebrew micro mix V5.15. Below is my current micro dosing.
> 
> 3/4 x per week
> .30 ppm DTPA Fe
> .075 ppm Mn as Manganese Sulphate
> .002 ppm Cu as Copper Sulphate
> .03 ppm Zn as Zinc Sulphate
> .002 ppm Mo as Sodium Molybdate
> .04 ppm Bo as Borax
> 
> Pantanal on November 27th
> 
> 
> Pantanal after yesterdays trim December 03
> 
> 
> Here is a current picture of my AR. Regular AR in the back and mini up front. You'll notice the regular AR is growing nice and flat, no visible stunting at all. On the other if you look at the AR mini you will notice a few twisted and stunted leaves.
> 
> 
> 
> Ammania gracilis I believe? still looking great. Currently my favourite plant in the tank!
> 
> November 16
> 
> 
> December 03
> 
> 
> As mentioned above the new tank build is coming along but is still a couple weeks out. Over the weekend I was able to installed the outer skins and in cabinet LED lighting to finish off the stand. My new 4 bulb T5HO light fixture was delivered, I picked up a couple of Eheim canister filters and 7 bags of ADA AquaSoil. I still need to make my Co2 reactor, pick up an inline heater and a circulation pump. I'm still not 100% sure if I am going to go will lily pipes or just the stock spray bar. I also have to figure out what I am going to do for a background on the new tank, paint it black or use some sort of black background. Anyone have any suggestions?
> 
> In all honesty I though it was a great idea to get this new tank, but in hindsight I have no clue why I am subjecting myself to all this extra work. I am not looking forward to draining the current 75, moving it and the stand to the laundry room, than having to set it all back up again. Once that is all done then I get to go through the whole process of setting up the new tank in the current 75's location. My wife has been a trooper through all this, not really asking many question and even helping me move the new stand from the garage to basement. She didn't even blink an eye when she heard a knock on the door and opened it up to find the UPS driver standing there holding my brand new 48" T5HO fixture and four brand new bulbs. Honestly I'm a little worried, things are just a little too quiet! I'm hoping to have everything moved and up and running in the next couple weeks.


Wifeys spending major cash on shoes. Double. Check the credit card statement lol

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## slipfinger

Update.

Most things are growing really well, couple plants have started to show issue this past week. First the good.

Pantanal continues to improve, still seems to be growing long and lanky. Ive seen it in my tank in the past with nice wide tops 3" across.

Last Sunday


Today


Helferi has always grown very nice in my tank. I'm holding off thinning out this batch until I have my new tank set up as I have no run to hold all the trimmed crowns, I'm estimating over 50+ crowns once I separate everything.



Most of the AR still growing without issue.



No clue if adding Ca and Mg would have caused these issues. I skipped adding Ca and Mg to my tank for two weeks leading up till last weeks water change in which I again added Ca and Mg to see if it would help with the Pantanal. It was near the beginning of these two weeks of not adding Ca and Mg that both Ammania gracilis and Bacopa caroliniana were added to the tank. My normal tank water GH is ~7 and KH ~5 I have not checked either of these after adding Ca and Mg. I was adding 12ppm Ca and 4ppm Mg. I did not added it after this weeks water change, I'd like to see if either of these plants show improvement this week without it. On the other hand maybe the higher micros dosing is starting to cause issues with these plants?

Ammania gracilis last Sunday


Today


Bacopa caroliniana major stunting of the tips on select tips.


Of course the after water change FTS to finish it off.


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## slipfinger

Update:

Like most, as time goes on you get to know your tank and what its telling you. For example, for the past week or so I've started to see the odd tuff of BBA taking foot on my circulation pump, skimmer and spray bar. I also started to see GSA on some of my AR mini and S. Repens leaves. When I start to see this I know its time for a full on filter cleaning/maintenance. This includes completely cleaning the inside of the filter and changing the filter floss, but also removing and cleaning all the tubing, fittings and Co2 reactor. The whole process takes about an hour to complete. While I am doing this I take out the other equipment, including the skimmer and circulation pump and throw them in a bucket with a bleach water mixture.



After I cleaning and reinstalling all the equipment its time to drain the water and give the front glass a quick wipe. Not much trimming went on this week except for the usual suspects, that being Pantanal and Ambulia. The picture below shows how much water I drain each week, probably close to 75% once a week.



I use straight tap water to refill the tank, I add the prime in while it is filling back up.



Nothing like the look of a tank after a water change.


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## Aceman21

Looks amazing


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## iamaloner

Looks cool. Just did a major clean myself. Thanks for the plants too. 

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## slipfinger

Time to get this journal up to speed.

Happy New Year to all...

With the New Year upon us, its time to start a new tank and new scape.

I've had this new tank and stand sitting in my basement for about a month now, procrastination has been holding me back from setting it up. What makes thing a little harder is the fact I went against my better judgement and purchased fished a month back, now I have to deal with the fish as well as the plants.

My plan is to put the new tank and stand where my current tank is and move my current tank to the laundry room with the 40's. Which means a complete tear down and set up of the old tank and a complete set up of the new tank. In the mean time my wife want to paint the basement so I have to paint the wall where the new tank is going to be sitting before I can set the new tank up. I also have to finish add the new breaker and electrical circuit dedicated to the tanks in the laundry rooms. With a total of 4 filter and 3 heaters plus 3 T5 fixtures and all the other odds and ends I've maxed out the current circuit. Lets just say the next couple of days are going to be a little busy.

I started the process tonight and removed all the foreground plants from the 75 and put them in a bucket with a small heater. Tomorrow I remove the all the background plants so I can try and catch all the fish and shrimp and move them into their temporary tank which I setup today using a seeded filter that I had running on one of the 40's for a month or so now.



My original planted bow front tank soon to be used as a temp holding tank for the fish and shrimps.


Foreground plants removed and water changed for fish health....


Last photo of The Dutch Weed Farm. It's been quite the learning experience.
]


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## iamaloner

slipfinger said:


> Time to get this journal up to speed.
> 
> Happy New Year to all...
> 
> With the New Year upon us, its time to start a new tank and new scape.
> 
> I've had this new tank and stand sitting in my basement for about a month now, procrastination has been holding me back from setting it up. What makes thing a little harder is the fact I went against my better judgement and purchased fished a month back, now I have to deal with the fish as well as the plants.
> 
> My plan is to put the new tank and stand where my current tank is and move my current tank to the laundry room with the 40's. Which means a complete tear down and set up of the old tank and a complete set up of the new tank. In the mean time my wife want to paint the basement so I have to paint the wall where the new tank is going to be sitting before I can set the new tank up. I also have to finish add the new breaker and electrical circuit dedicated to the tanks in the laundry rooms. With a total of 4 filter and 3 heaters plus 3 T5 fixtures and all the other odds and ends I've maxed out the current circuit. Lets just say the next couple of days are going to be a little busy.
> 
> I started the process tonight and removed all the foreground plants from the 75 and put them in a bucket with a small heater. Tomorrow I remove the all the background plants so I can try and catch all the fish and shrimp and move them into their temporary tank which I setup today using a seeded filter that I had running on one of the 40's for a month or so now.
> 
> 
> 
> My original planted bow front tank soon to be used as a temp holding tank for the fish and shrimps.
> 
> 
> Foreground plants removed and water changed for fish health....
> 
> 
> Last photo of The Dutch Weed Farm. It's been quite the learning experience.
> ]


Good luck with the new scape! And happy New year.

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## Aceman21

Can’t wait to see the new tank set up


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## slipfinger

I figured I keep posting in here until I actually start the new tank, at which point I will start a new journal...

Busy day yesterday. As usual when you start a new project all those unfinished projects you've put off seem to naw at the back of your neck. Anyways I finished the basement about 10 years ago now, at the time I wired it so I could install an actual light switch to control the laundry room lights instead of those little strings you pull to turn the lights on and off. So when I was at home depot I purchased a couple new fluorescent fixtures and a light switch, along with all the other stuff I needed to install the new circuit. Took me about 5 hours to install the new light fixtures and the new circuit which consists of 6 new double receptacles. I now have 2 separate circuits to plug all the tank related items into, over kill...... I know, but peace of mind when you see the spaghetti of plugs coming from the tanks and think to yourself, 'that does not look safe'!

I also ended up having to move the two 40's. Not the original plan, but once I measured everything this configuration gives me the most room to fit everything into the limited space I have. Damn laundry machines in the basement, why can't Canadian home builders, build home like in the UK with the laundry machines in the kitchen, only makes sense.

After unhooking everything, draining both tanks, moving, filling, and hooking everything back up again, I am not looking forward to moving the 75 at all. But it has to be done, because god for bid I would have to toss the plants still just floating in the bucket.

Off to move the 75!

40's before the move. 


Upper 40 drained and moved.


Now to unhook and move the lower 40.


Finally everything moved and hooked back up.


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## slipfinger

Tank is all set-up!



Starting to clear up, I'll change the filter floss and add a couple of regenerated Purigen bags tomorrow.



I decided to use the old AS along with two new bags. I was going to rinse the old soil, but said screw it and just dumped the bucket in the tank. Still pretty dusty when you stir the sub, but over the next couple of weeks I will vacuum it every time I do water changes.

I was a little disappointed when I went to start replant and put my hand in the bucket and pulled out melted crowns of Helferi. Not a single stem made it, every melted to the stems.
It had been about 3 months since I separated the bunch and I figure there was probably close to 100 individual stems in this bunch. All gone!



I am glad it's basically all done. Honestly I wont be doing this again for a long long time.

I plan to take my time with the rimless project. After this week and the work involved, I'm currently in no rush what so ever to get it up and running. My original plan was to use some of the hardware from the 75 and use it on the rimless, but while I was setting up the 75 I decided to use all the original hardware and set it up as it was before. Over the next month I have to get my hands on a new filter (Hydor 600) and a new Co2 regulator, which I will custom build myself.


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## cb1021

Wow nice. A lot of work. 

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## slipfinger

Been busy slowly reorganizing the basement after the hurricane went through. That would be me throwing anything that was in my way out into the main living area where my son spend half his day playing video games. Good news is I found him yesterday alive and well after being buried under a crap load of stuff for 3 days.....

Tank cleared up nicely, but the sub is dusty as hell. Even if I waved my hand over it, it would kick up dust. I did a water change yesterday and deep vacuumed about a 1/3rd of the tank. The area I vacuumed is now like new, I can stir it with my tweezers and not a speck of dust. Its a slow process and uses a ton of water (I use a Python) but needs to be done. I am planning to do the middle 1/3rd today when I do my water change.



I ended up throwing out/giving away a bunch of plants, good news @iamaloner hooked me up with a dozen or so helferi so I can start over again. Pantanal is already making a come back from being in a bucket for 2 days. You can see the curled and stunted leaves just below the nice new growth.



Finally the reason I did all this..............


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## cb1021

wowza where you pick up that rimless tank? It's night and day difference tradtional plastic trim vs rimless. I miss my rimless tank.


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## iamaloner

slipfinger said:


> Been busy slowly reorganizing the basement after the hurricane went through. That would be me throwing anything that was in my way out into the main living area where my son spend half his day playing video games. Good news is I found him yesterday alive and well after being buried under a crap load of stuff for 3 days.....
> 
> Tank cleared up nicely, but the sub is dusty as hell. Even if I waved my hand over it, it would kick up dust. I did a water change yesterday and deep vacuumed about a 1/3rd of the tank. The area I vacuumed is now like new, I can stir it with my tweezers and not a speck of dust. Its a slow process and uses a ton of water (I use a Python) but needs to be done. I am planning to do the middle 1/3rd today when I do my water change.
> 
> 
> 
> I ended up throwing out/giving away a bunch of plants, good news @iamaloner hooked me up with a dozen or so helferi so I can start over again. Pantanal is already making a come back from being in a bucket for 2 days. You can see the curled and stunted leaves just below the nice new growth.
> 
> 
> 
> Finally the reason I did all this..............


New tank looks awesome. The stand looks better. I also have a 80 rimless, 3 door stand. I hate the doors. Aqua inspiration per chance?

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## slipfinger

iamaloner said:


> New tank looks awesome. The stand looks better. I also have a 80 rimless, 3 door stand. I hate the doors. Aqua inspiration per chance?
> 
> Sent from my PH-1 using Tapatalk


Yes got a smoking deal from AS on the tank. Had the inside scoop they were closing down the new location so went in with cash in hand.

I made the stand. it is basically the same stand that I used for the 75g. All the panels are removable so I can access it from all sides if need be.


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## planter

that's a really nice tank from AI. I'm looking forward to see what you do with it.


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## slipfinger

So...... Its been a long time since I last posted, over 7 months to be exact.

What you are looking at below, is my 75 gallon tank in its current condition as of this morning.

​
I've been dreading this post for a long time. I'm extremely ashamed of the current state of all my tanks. Back in January after I set up the two 40 gallon grow out tanks and moved the 75 to make room for my new 80 gal rimless, things were rolling along nicely. I was in heaven, I finally had the grow out tanks I dreamed of to help with my never ending state of collectoritis. Not a single day went by that I didn't find myself elbow deep in a tank, trimming, cleaning, fluffing, and loving every minute of it. At first I enjoyed my time in my 'plant room', never did I consider it work. In fact I found myself sitting at work think about what I was going to do with the tanks when I got home. But as time went on things changed. My nightly visits to the plant room became shorter and shorter with less maintenance being done with each passing week. My weekly water changes started to become bimonthly water changes. Then at some point my Co2 ran out and I had no interest in re-filling it. The only attention the tanks would get is when my wife would say to me, "I think your tanks need some water, they are making a lot of noise". I'd head down and top them back up with cold water straight out of the tap, no prime or anything. If they were lucky, I'd pour a couple 'glugs' of macro and micro into each tank.

The average beginner has no clue the dedication and time it takes to keep these tanks looking good when running high light, high nutrients and rich Co2. These tanks look great in pictures but it doesn't come without spending multiple hours a week getting your hands wet. When you fail to keep up with weekly maintenance and even simple daily maintenance things turn to shat fast! Trust me I know this all too well.

The above picture is a far cry from the 75's hayday in mid 2017.

​
One thing that never changed during the last 7 months was my light schedule, sounds scary I know. Two outside bulbs came on for first and last two hours with all six bulbs on for the middle four hours of an eight hour light cycle. But to my surprise the only algae that took over the tank was BBA on all the equipment and a very small amount of blue green algae along the front of the glass just below the substrate. As you can see in the picture below BBA is growing on the equipment quite nicely, but you'd be hard pressed to find a spec of algae on the glass, I estimate the glass has not been cleaned in at least 4 months.



​
Today I decide enough is enough and I set out to resurrect the 75 from its dire state. I spent 5 hours, removing and washing every piece of equipment in the tank. I removed every plant, which there was more floating then there was actually planted. Vacuumed every inch of substrate to remove all the built up mulm and dead plant material. Completely cleaned the main filter and plan to clean the secondary filter next week so as not to completely knock out the bacteria and cause the tank to have cycle again. Hooked up a fresh 20lb cylinder of Co2 and calibrated my pH meter. At one point I had over 26 different species of plants in this tank, when all was said and done I was able to salvage 11 different species. These being, a bunch of Straurogyne repens, 1 stem of Hygrophila corymbosa 'dwarf', 2 stems of Hygrophila 'siamensis 53B', 4 stems of Mermaid weed, 1 piece of Pogostemon 'gayi', 2 stems of Ambulia 'giant', 1 stump of Rotala macrandra, 1 stump of Alternanthera 'rosanervig', 4 stems of Lobelia Cardinalis 'small form', 4 stems of Penthorum sedoides and finally to my surprise a little stem of Ammania gracilis.

​
As for the two 40's and my 80 gal rimless.

The bottom 40 will be drained tomorrow and sit empty for the foreseeable future, its just to hard to maintain this tank being on the bottom of the shelving unit. The upper tank will be cleaned up tomorrow.
​
The rimless sits in all is glory waiting for the day it sees water. I still need to get some equipment to complete this project, mainly a filter which I am leaning towards another Hydor 600. I'm aiming to have it up and running by the end of September. You guys will be the first to know once its up and running.
​
Anyways, I look forward to chatting and learning with you guys again.


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## Aceman21

Glad too see you back, look forward to seeing you get the tanks back to their glory.


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## iamaloner

Was also wondering what happened. Glad to see things are starting up again

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## infolific

I too had noticed your absence. I'm glad you're taking another stab at things and hopefully you find the right balance for you.


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## slipfinger

Aceman21 said:


> Glad too see you back, look forward to seeing you get the tanks back to their glory.





iamaloner said:


> Was also wondering what happened. Glad to see things are starting up again.





infolific said:


> I too had noticed your absence. I'm glad you're taking another stab at things and hopefully you find the right balance for you.


Thanks guys, I'll be back in no time.

Just starting the process of sourcing so new plants. This is what saddens me the most. I had so many different species and a few harder to get plants in the collection.

I'm debating replacing the aquasoil before I get the tank too heavily planted. The old stuff is starting to break down, just moving a single plant creates a dust storm.


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## cb1021

Ahh it happens to all of us. 1 tank is a lot of work. 2 tanks is suddenly double. 

Looking forward. 


Why not do a single nice tank with the rimless setup instead of setting up all these fancy storage/collection tanks?


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## characinfan

Thanks for posting about your experiences. It's posts like yours -- chronicling both the good and bad -- that help people learn and grow in this hobby.


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## slipfinger

Just over a full week since I resurrected the 75. I can tell already, this is going to be a battle. But it's a battle in which I plan on winning! Someone mentioned in my local forum, why bother with all this and just focus on setting up the rimless? Good point! Why the hell am I bothering with bringing the 75 back to life? I've already succeeded in setting up multiple tanks, with very few issues. I've never had major issue with setting up new tanks, no major algae outbreaks or green water to battle. In all honesty the hobby has been relatively easy for me, and why not. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Want to be successful at something? Search out individuals that have had great success and follow what they do, learn from them. There are multiple people on here and other forums that have and are having great success in this hobby. No need to even mention their names, if you are serious about this hobby you should know who they are. If you don't know who they are by now, you are missing out on a wealth of information and knowledge that would take a life time to acquire if you went at this hobby alone. If you seriously don't know who they are, message me, I'll point you in the right direction.

By no means am I some kind of master, far from it. I would say I've had pretty good success, but I'm not even close to the level of the people I would consider my 'mentors/the ones I follow' in this hobby. I have my fair share of issues, AR mini growing all twisted, Pantanal would grow like gangbuster and then droop and the tip would shrivel up to nothing, Hygro corymbosa of any kind with pin holes and twisted leaves. Just read back in this journal I'm sure I've talked about them all. But one thing I never really battled and have very little experience with is algae.

So, why not just forget about the 75 and setup the rimless? Simply, the 75 will be a learning experience in battling algae and trust me there is a lot of it still in the tank. It may not be 100% visible when standing back looking at it, but look closer you'll see the substrate is littered with black beard algae (BBA) even the damn snails have BBA growing off them. Just below the substrate on the front glass, lots of blue green algae (BGA). Look at the glass from different angles dust algae (GDA) all over the place along with some green spot algae (GSA) and to top it all off, last night I noticed some string/hair algae growing off a couple of the taller plants. I'm sure there are multiple other forms of algae growing in this tank, just waiting to rear their ugly head.

In documenting this tanks come back my hope is maybe it will help others that are dealing with algae, learn something. Also, as mentioned above humble myself and teach myself a few things about dealing with major algae issues. At this point the plan is to not use any Excel, H202, no 'chemical algaecide at all. Instead I will rely on what I know, good old fashioned husbandry skills, nutrients and Co2. Get this stuff in check and firing on all cylinders and it should breed success. If not, screw it! I'll move on to the rimless and this journal will come to an end. :grin2:

A few pictures to document the algae and a few before and after 8 days growth of some new tissue culture plants.

BBA all over the Aquasoil....


One of many spots of BGA below the substarte.


This guy has a BBA tail.


Random before after pics tissue culture plants.

AR mini
Before

8 days growth


Pogostemon erectus
Before

8 days growth


Hygrophila 'araguaia'
before

8 days growth


Final the FTS!


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## iamaloner

Where did you get such healthy Pogo erectus TC? I've only been able to order it by mail and it always comes looking like it had a rough night of drinking and never recovers. 

AngelFins the plant guy the wetleaf 1fish2fish all with the same results. 

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## slipfinger

iamaloner said:


> Where did you get such healthy Pogo erectus TC? I've only been able to order it by mail and it always comes looking like it had a rough night of drinking and never recovers.
> 
> AngelFins the plant guy the wetleaf 1fish2fish all with the same results.
> 
> Sent from my PH-1 using Tapatalk


This time around AngelFins.

The only places I buy TC from, is personally at AngleFins so I can see what I am getting and online through Hung Lee of SKA Shrimps and Nature Aquariums.

Never had a issue with AF's TC's which are Hortilab brand and Hung Lee is amazing, great communication, service, selection and fast shipping.


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## iamaloner

I guess it doesn't do well shipped. Even though I get it in 2 days. Most other plants from AngelFins always arrive in top order. 

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## Aceman21

I can’t believe that’s only 8 days lol I wish I could grow plants like that.


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## slipfinger

Spent most of Sunday working on the tanks. I started out by rearranging and changing out some of the bulbs in the fixture for the 75. I had a few new bulbs I had purchased back in the beginning of the year and of course never got around to changing them. The new bulbs consisted of a ZooMed Coral Sun Actinic 420, ZooMed Flora Sun and a couple of cheap hydroponic shop 6500k and a 3000k bulbs. I also wanted to swap out the PowerVeg 633 for the 660. Not a big change but the new configuration looks something like this now.



Off hand I can't remember which Flora bulb is in the front and which is in the back, but I think I have it correct.
Front to Back 
Giesemann Super Flora
3000K
ZooMed 420
PowerVeg 660
6500K
ZooMed Flora?

The next thing on the to-do list was to remove all the in-tank hardware from the 40 and the 75 and soak it in some bleach and water to kill any BBA and whatever other algae was living on the hardware. I had already cleaned all the hardware in the 75 the weekend before, but didn't bleach everything and I was noticing a little BBA coming back. I'm pretty sure I killed it all this time!

Below is a photo of the dying BBA (couple of heavy doses of Excel) on the circulation pump and in the background also some on a random filter pipe in the 40.


And the after picture of the 40 all squeaky clean. Cleaned every piece of hardware, the glass, lightly vacuumed the sub, reset-up the Co2 and added a newly filled 20lber. 


TIP: If you want to start the process of ridding your tank of an algae issue, start by clean everything in the tank that can be physically cleaned.

I added a few new emersed plants to the tanks to see if I can get them transition. Last time I did this out of 10 stems I think I was successful in get one tiny stem to transition, the rest just melted away. I know one is Nesaea pedicellata 'Golden', the other I was told was Nesaea pedicellata? And the other Ammania something or another. I've not really had any success with any of these plants in the past.




Over all most things are growing well in the 75, still a bunch of BBA all over the substrate and a few plants have a little on the older growth. I mixed up new batches of Macro's and Micro's based off Burr's most recent versions, as of a week or so ago, but I could be 2 versions behind already! I'll post my nutrient values along with a few plant issues I noticed before I started dosing this latest batch in another post.

Some random pictures since we all like pictures.

Mermaid weed, one top is a deep red/orange colour. I hope this is not like Pantanal, when ever it would go a deep red like this it would mean stunting was soon to follow.


This guy just doing his thing, look close you can see all the BBA on the Aquasoil.


Picture does not do it justice, but the Blyxa in the tank has some real deep red coloured leaves.


Rotala Macrandra 'mini' and Ludwigia inclinata var. verticillata 'curly/tornado'


Both 'grow out' tanks.


Finally the latest FTS of the 75.


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## slipfinger

As mentioned, here are some pictures of the issues I am currently seeing in the tank. For the record these issues were present before I started dosing my current batch of nutrients that I will list below.

I'm not surprised at all that I am seeing these issues. These are the same issues I saw back in the day and I've posted in this very journal about them. In saying all that I did start out dosing the exact same macro's and micro's that I was using before I 'walked' away from the tanks. Yes they sat for that whole time other then me pouring a few glugs into the tank once in a while.

According to my notes, here is what I was adding back then.
I mixed these on November 28th 2018. Don't ask, I did not write down why I was at these levels.
Weekly totals 
18ppm N
.75ppm Urea
3.9ppm P
6.75ppm K

Totals per dose. Dosed 5 days a week. 
Fe .325ppm
Mn .075ppm
Cu .003ppm
Zn .04ppm
Mo .002ppm
B .035ppm

Here are some current issues.

Rotala wallichii, some stems doing just fine and others are stunted.


Corymbosa 'compact', leaves all twisted and holes in the bottom leaves. 


This is what the same plant looked like when I added to the 75 from the 40.


siamensis 53b, white spots on leaves and holes in lower leaves.


Bacopa caroliniana, easy plant to grow, but stunts for me in the 75. Perfect in the 40.


Finally this nasty looking thing. For the record this sat in the 40 without nutrients and Co2 for months and looked good, I wish I had a picture.


My current dosing #'s, 
weekly totals, 
25ppm N
7ppm P
30ppm K

Dosed 5 days a week. daily totals
Fe .2ppm
Mn .05ppm
B .073ppm
Zn .05ppm
Mo . 00175ppm
Cu .001ppm
Ni .0005ppm

As I see changes for the better or worse i will update. The plan is to dose these levels until this batch runs out which should be four weeks.


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## slipfinger

As of late I've been seeing this trend towards people actually scaping their farm tanks. So today I figured what hell, I decided to got my hands wet and arranged the plants in the 75 to resemble some form of a scape. Still looks like ass, lots of plants still need to grow out and I ran out of time on the right side of the tank.

I don't really have much to add so on to the pictures!

Before FTS


After FTS


The below picture was taken 21 days ago. I'm amazed at how quick things can grow when everything is firing on all cylinders.


Experimental plants. AR variegated, Nesaea pedicellata 'Golden' back right of the photo, and I have no clue really what the others are, they were listed as Nesaea pedicellata (in the back behind the AR variegated and to the left of the AR, Ammania something or another. 


21 day old AR from tissue culture. You can see what they looked like when I first planted them a few posts above.


Helferi coming along nice.


Hygrophila 'araguaia' has grown like crazy, time to sell some of this already.


Something weird I've noticed and been keeping an eye on is this one stem of Mermaid weed that is an amazing red colour but it seems to be stunted compared to the other 3 in the tank.

Finally, I put together this bad boy, 24" x 3" reactor. Added a burp valve on the top so I can bleed the air out after I clean the filter. Current one is a PITA, I have to flip it upside down to get all the air out, which is no easy task. I'm Planning to put it to the test tomorrow, if it works out I will make another one for the rimless.


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## slipfinger

Quick update.

Bunch of deliveries were waiting for me when I got home today.

First a few new additions for the tank, both of these are from a local Canadian company producing tissue cultures. Everything arrive in great health and large portions! I believe there was about 8 individual plants in each cup.

Eriocaulon King Crimson, the first thought that came to my mind when I put it in the tank is, it looked fake.



Eriocaulon Hainan Island.



Second. New burr micros. I was running out of a few of the elements I need to mix up my micro mix. Thanks to @burr740 I didn't need to order pounds of this stuff. Thanks again Joe!



Finally. The filter for the rimless tank arrived, meaning this baby might be set up and planted this weekend. But in saying that I am out of town the end of next week for 5 days. Probably not smart to set this all up with new Aquasoil and walk way from it for 5 days. We'll see!



In other news the damn Mermaid weed is at it again, doing something I've personally never seen in my tank. They are throwing a bunch of new plantlets just below the tops of the plant. I've never seen this before.


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## Aceman21

Man that looks awesome, I wish I could grow plants like that. Can’t wait to see that rimless all set up


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## iamaloner

Man slipfinger - I have ordered a lot from ABC plants. They are just amazing. They have such a nice variety of TC plants now and because of them I have pretty much stopped ordering from AngelFins and even theplantguy. How is the eriocaulon crimson? I don't know if it looks so good because of your lights because you are still on the T5HO whereas a lot of us are now onto LEDs. 

I just don't have the room anymore but I'm so tempted to scape a cube 30"x30"x30" and try hardscape for the first time lol 

Let's see what the wifey allows. 

Sent from my PH-1 using Tapatalk


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## slipfinger

Aceman21 said:


> Man that looks awesome, I wish I could grow plants like that. Can't wait to see that rimless all set up


We'll see how the Erios work out in my tank! As for the rimless I still need to find some black vinyl for the back ground.



iamaloner said:


> Man slipfinger - I have ordered a lot from ABC plants. They are just amazing. They have such a nice variety of TC plants now and because of them I have pretty much stopped ordering from AngelFins and even theplantguy. How is the eriocaulon crimson? I don't know if it looks so good because of your lights because you are still on the T5HO whereas a lot of us are now onto LEDs.
> 
> I just don't have the room anymore but I'm so tempted to scape a cube 30"x30"x30" and try hardscape for the first time lol
> 
> Let's see what the wifey allows.
> 
> Sent from my PH-1 using Tapatalk


Ya ABC has some great products! I could not believe the size of the portions and size of the actual plants. They also through in some freebies. Great company can't wait to see what they release in the future.

The picture of the Crimson beside the Hainan Island, is very close to what it actually looks like. The pic with the AR and the Crimson is highlighted by the red light a little, why it looks more red than pink.

You guys on LEDs need to come back to dark side!


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## Aceman21

How do you get your hands on burrs ferts ?


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## iamaloner

I was thinking the same lol


Aceman21 said:


> How do you get your hands on burrs ferts ?


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## iamaloner

I'm not crazy into ferts though. I keep my co2 consistent and high. And I honestly dose randomly. Macros every Monday and Thursday and micros every Tuesday and Friday. And i always skip days based on how I slept the night before hahaha. 

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## slipfinger

He sells them if you are interested. $35 plus $16 shipping and that is in USD.

Seems expensive, but what you get will last you a couple of years at least. If you tried to order this online (good luck finding all this in Canada with out buying 50lb bags of the stuff) it will cost you hundreds.

If either of you guys are interested in trying un-chelated micros let me know I could measure out all the elements based on your tank size and dosing schedule. You’d just need to mix in a container with distilled water and a little vinegar. 

Most people that have tried these micros over Plantx CSM +B have seen major improvements in their plant growth.


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## Aceman21

I’m interested, does he have macros too ? I haven’t been on the planted tank in awhile


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## slipfinger

Aceman21 said:


> I'm interested, does he have macros too ? I haven't been on the planted tank in awhile


Macros are pretty easy to come by around here. Shipping from him would not be worth it.

Homegrown Hydro sells all the macros we would use or you can order online for ThePlantGuy. If you do decide to order Macros talk to me first, I have lots of some products, plus you want to make sure to buy DTPA Fe and not EDTA Fe.

I'll PM you tomorrow to sort out trying Burrs Mix.


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## Aceman21

slipfinger said:


> Macros are pretty easy to come by around here. Shipping from him would not be worth it.
> 
> Homegrown Hydro sells all the macros we would use or you can order online for ThePlantGuy. If you do decide to order Macros talk to me first, I have lots of some products, plus you want to make sure to buy DTPA Fe and not EDTA Fe.
> 
> I'll PM you tomorrow to sort out trying Burrs Mix.


Awesome, sounds good. I got my last ferts from theplantguy but I'm almost out of one of them


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## slipfinger

Dilemma

Aquasoil or something inert, PFS or BDBS?

I currently have 9 bags of AS sitting here. The plan is to use it in the rimless (not all of course), but I'm really sitting on the fence with this one. I know all the pro's when it comes to growing plants in AS, but honestly there are just as many negatives, especially when it comes to scaping a dutch tank. My biggest issue with it is how messy it is when moving things around, and in a dutch tank full of fast growing stems its happening a lot! Most of the best kept 'true' dutch tanks use inert gravel with nutrients added to the substrate. Just read this article by Bart Laurens, 99% of these tanks are inert substrate. Makes you really go, Hmmmm!

Of course there as been the issue with crap quality AS as of late, multiple people on here and FB have reported it going to mush in a very short amount of time. One of my grow out tanks experienced this, in say that I bought one bag of AS off a random guy, that particular bag seemed to be really 'dusty' compared to the other bags I had bought from my local ADA dealer. I believe I wrote about it in this journal somewhere. Currently that tank is sitting with nothing in it because the soil is so bad, if my dog, not me farts near it, the soil stirs up and clouds the water. I have heard rumours of 'Fake' soil floating around the interwebs, can't confirm this, but I see no reason why there won't be fakes. You can get fake everything these days on the net. All my current bags were bought from my local ADA dealer, so I'm not too concerned with it being fake.

I am so on the fence to what I should do here.............

Go ahead with the original plan, and use AS?
Change things up and get my hands on (ideally) BDBS, which I would have to take a road trip to the good old US of A since its not easy to get here in Canada.

Edit- what I do know is what ever I decide, I will being using the opposite in my other big tank.

First world issues, I know!


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## slipfinger

The 75 is really starting to fill in nicely!

I'm starting to see a small amount of twisting in the AR mini and variegated, so I decided to dose 2ppm Mg which is about 1 1/4 tsp worth. My latest water report says I have 9ppm Mg and 35ppm Ca, figured I had nothing to lose and I've heard that adding a little extra Mg has helped flatten out AR leaves. I'll give this a week or so, if I see it getting worse then it will be time to reduce my micro dosing, I'll drop down to 4 days a week from 5. I also need to thin this bunch out a little, probably not helping.




I know I've been talking about Mermaid Weed a lot as of late, but its such an interesting plant. As I mentioned above one of the stems sprouted a bunch of new plantlets right near the top portion of the stem. This morning when I turned the lights on to do a water change I noticed the top of the plant had stunted and was pale coloured. I would suspect all the nutrients and energy was going into growing the new plantlets, the top growth suffered. In the end I pinched of 8 new stems, I could only imagine the energy needed to grow this many new stems. You'll also notice the newer growth on the one stem that was stuck because the plant was not able to get any nutrients from the roots due to rot.



In other news. Because I needed the Co2 reg and tank from the 75 for the rimless, I switched the 75 over to the setup that I used on the two 40's. Basically its one solenoid split to two needle valves, each with there own bubble counter. On the original 75 Co2 system I could eye ball setting up the Co2 by the steady stream of bubbles in the counter, plus I have a monitor measuring pH 24/7. I move and setup the new split system, set the bubble counter to the normal steady stream I am used to see and head off to do other things. Few hours later just as lights are coming on I look over at the monitor and pH has only dropped to 6.6 normally at lights on its 6.1. WTF! I pull out my soapy spray bottle and spray everything done, thinking maybe there is a leak. No leak! I turn up the Co2 and bubbles are flying out the counter, maybe my eye balling levels is not so good after all. Then it dawns on me, the bubble counter on this setup is different then the one of the setup from the 75, quickly switch the bubble counters and low and behold I can actually count the bubbles coming out the old counter from the 75. Adjust the needle valve to see the bubbles the way I normally see them and within half hour pH is down to 6.1. The opening in the bubble counter off the 75 is much bigger and allows a bigger bubble to pass through it, meaning more Co2 per bubble. Might be time for me to invest in a flow meter, would have caught this right off the bat.



As mentioned already I found some BDBS at my local TSC store, which they didn't carry last time I was on the hunt for it. You're looking at four 50lb bags rinsed and ready to go, you'll also see the reactor I built yesterday for the rimless. I now have almost everything I need to set up the rimless, except the black vinyl for the back glass. I'm hoping to source something this week.


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## ashtonfitzgerald

I'm looking forward to hearing your experience with the BDBS. I am running it in two tanks at the moment and plants have done really well, especially for a low-tech setup. It took a lot of rinsing...


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## infolific

slipfinger said:


> Second. New burr micros. I was running out of a few of the elements I need to mix up my micro mix.


It looks like the copper is coming from a single source (copper sulfate). Does that mean you could conceivably mix up a batch of micros that is 100% free of copper, but has every other needed component that would normal included?


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## slipfinger

infolific said:


> It looks like the copper is coming from a single source (copper sulfate). Does that mean you could conceivably mix up a batch of micros that is 100% free of copper, but has every other needed component that would normal included?


Yes, that's the beauty of rolling your own micros. You can add and remove elements based on your tanks needs. Plus by using all sulfate based elements you eliminate the EDTA chelate, because in reality we have no clue what those chelates are actually doing in our tank. Are they binding up other elements, are they just floating around becoming toxic, no one is really sure. But testing with rolling your own micro has seen a lot of positive results in a lot of peoples tanks.

Plus the CSM+B that most people are use in their tanks was designed to be mixed by the pound in big Ag sprayers not dosed by the 1/2tsp in 50 gallons of water. We have no clue what percentage of each ingredient we are actually getting in that 1/2tsp.

I've been rolling my own for a while now and have seen positive results, I still mess around with ratios just to see if adding a little more of something or taking away a little has any positive or negative effects in my tank. This is the part of the hobby I love.


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