# 5 weeks into the cycle and nitrites have arrived



## artemisblossom (May 22, 2008)

Hi I am now 5 weeks into my cycle and nitrites have arrived in the 55 gal tank. there was just a small amount of nitrites yesterday around .25ppm and today they are more than 5ppm. On the good side my ammonia levels are dropping rapidly yesterday it was about .5ppm and today is it less than .25ppm. I am worried about such a large spike in the nitrites what does this do to the fish? I am going to do a 50% water change but the water changes seem to stress out the fish and a couple of the platy/guppy cross fish seem to get sick from each water change..what should I be doing about this?


----------



## XbrandonX (Nov 22, 2007)

Hi there,

Awesome that your starting a tank and even better you're doing research! kudos to you.

Read this one http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/management/kumar_nitrogen.html

It was taken from here http://gtaaquaria.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3563

You may be too early for the fish though. You should have waited till you were 0 ammonia and 0 nitrite before adding your fish.


----------



## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

If I remember correctly, you had some mollies or guppies or platies or smtg in there right? And like 4 or 5 or something small in 55g. They should be perfectly fine. 
The reason you're seeing the nitrates now is that the biological filter is building up and the bacteria are finally starting to break down ammonia in appreciable amounts. Now for the next wave of bacteria to consume the nitrites and your cycle is almost complete.
Since you have so few fish, don' bother with the 50% WC. Keep it to once a week. If you see that there are signs of ammonia poisioning or something, then do a WC and possibly use a chemical additive like prime to quell the remaining ammonia. Otherwise, just let them build up a bit and let your filter try to catch up to it. Remember, more food for bacteria, the more they will multiply (to an extent anyways).
I forget if you have them, but plants help a great deal too.


----------



## Cory_Dad (Apr 18, 2008)

Oh god, tank cycling... I hate that.

I've tried several methods even ones that claim a 11 day cycle. All I can say to them is Bull Pucks!

Time and patience are the key.

One thing I have found though is that after about 3 weeks I add a fully cycled HOB filter to the tank which creates the nitrites. Once I see them I remove the HOB for week or so. This gives the nitrite bacteria a chance to get started by giving them food. After 5 weeks if there is any ammonia or nitrite in the tank I put the HOB back on till they both go to 0 then remove it. After that everything seems to just 'work'. I did this with 2 tanks. I'll be doing it again with the 25 gallon I just brought home. I know, I know; I have sinned, I have sinned, I have most grievously sinned. Good thing the wife is in Minneapolis till Sunday...


----------



## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Wooooooooooooooooooohooooooooooooo! A new tank! And little cories to go in it 

I find that the best method is with plants. They carry their own supply of bacteria all over the leaves and stalks, as well as some subterranean bacteria to colonize your substrate. Also, they grab up nitrogenous wastes, so they're generally good to have in there. And they make your tank look great.

I like to start with a bit of filter media too. Then it's like you've (somewhat foolishly) done a filter clean and a 100% WC. It may be a shock, but nothing a week or so won't recover.

Good luck with equilibrium in your tank. You'll find that it'll be hard to come by and fleeting when it does


----------



## Cory_Dad (Apr 18, 2008)

wtf are you doing still up at 2 am? Don't you have anything better to do? 

I always add plants to the tanks I cycle but it still takes me 5 weeks.

As stated previously, using a fully cycled HOB tank along with the virginous (is that a word?) new tank filter seems to help the most.

Oh, they are NOT little Corys...



















These are my new darlings.

Now, I just need to find some smooth white sand...


----------



## Calmer (Mar 9, 2008)

The cory cats look really nice. Congratulations on your new acquisition.


----------



## KhuliLoachFan (Mar 8, 2008)

What do you guys think of using the commercial bacteria-in-a-bottle to speed up cycling?

Warren


----------



## Cory_Dad (Apr 18, 2008)

Hi KhuliLoachFan.

It depends on which commercial product you are referring to. I've heard a lot of good things about Bio-Spira (I think that's the product name) but it needs to be stored refrigerated and is hard to find.

Most of the other stuff I've tried was a waste of money.


----------



## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Instead of bio spira, try to get used filter media from someone. Probably about a hundred times cheaper, and most likely, more bacteria also.

I've also head good things about bio spira, but IMO probably not worth the money when used media does the same trick.

I've also seen the stuff in stores that claim to do the same without being refrigerated, but I'm even more skeptical of that stuff.


----------



## artemisblossom (May 22, 2008)

I was told that Tetra had bought the bio spira and was marketing it under the name tetra safe start. Apparently it doesn't need to be refrigerated now either but I was assured it was the real bio spira. I think i read where it was hitting the shelves in july.


----------



## NewBKaeK (Jan 23, 2008)

artemisblossom said:


> I was told that Tetra had bought the bio spira and was marketing it under the name tetra safe start. Apparently it doesn't need to be refrigerated now either but I was assured it was the real bio spira. I think i read where it was hitting the shelves in july.


I heard that bio-spira had been discontinued back in April. I highly doubt that any bacterial colony could survive on shelves without being sufficiently cooled. My reasoning being that at warmer temperatures water retains less oxygen and the strains of beneficial bacteria NEED oxygen. So.. I think the information you got was bogus. =\ Just my opinion though.


----------



## artemisblossom (May 22, 2008)

Well I have never used the product but everyone at the tetra forums are raving about it. They say the product was not discontinued it was sold to tetra and they are now marketing it as tetra safestart. I wish I could get some of this for my tank. Here is a link that mentions that it does not need to be refrigerated 
http://www.theaquariumwiki.com/SafeStart


----------



## Cory_Dad (Apr 18, 2008)

Well, there's only one way to find out and that is to buy some and try it out.

artemisblossom, where did you read that? And is the roll out here in Canada or only in the US? If it doesn't cost much I'm willing to try it out.

EDIT: Doh, you posted the link just as I hit enter. $17 US will be $25 or more $CA. Hmm. Is it worth $25 to quick cycle a tank? Well, if it works and you are in a rush it certainly is.

But then again, having a fully cycled back up HOB filter to help the new filter get cycled is probably going to be a lot cheaper in the long run. And, it's a great backup in emergency situations.


----------



## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

NewBKaek: The reason they have to be refridgerated has more to do with the fact that at lower temperatures, metabolic rates greatly decline, thus the proliferative capacity of the bacteria is greatly reduced. When you raise the temp (introduce them to a tank) they can begin to multiply explosively. But, if they become active in a tiny little container, they quickly kill the whole population by consuming all the nutrients available (including oxygen) or create so much waste that they die. But I too remain skeptical that they can keep any bacterial culture on a store shelf. Especially for over a year, as some of the expiry dates suggest.
I was going to get a bottle and see if there were actually bacteria in there, but I'd rather not waste money validating or invalidating a product I don't really believe the need for.

Artemis, instead of spending 20+ bucks on bacteria that aren't worth the price and dubious in effectiveness, you could ask a fellow hobbyist or the lfs for old filter floss or something, and then spend he money on nice fish or better equipment.


----------



## Cory_Dad (Apr 18, 2008)

ameekplec. said:


> NewBKaek:
> Artemis, instead of spending 20+ bucks on bacteria that aren't worth the price and dubious in effectiveness, you could ask a fellow hobbyist or the lfs for old filter floss or something, and then spend he money on nice fish or better equipment.


HERE HERE!


----------



## artemisblossom (May 22, 2008)

I am hoping the product will be available in Canada but it is doubtful it will ever reach my area (Thunder Bay). I am still in the middle of my cycle for my 55 gal. I did buy something called stability by Seachem and I added that to my tank over a period of a week as the label said but I am not sure it did anything or not as far as helping the cycle along. It would have been nice to get some kind of starter from the lfs or a friend but I was unable to, I don't personally know anyone who has an aquarium and the lfs just wanted to bully me into buying a gallon jug of something called cycle.


----------



## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Well, neither of stability nor prime will help you with the actual cycle. They will only help neutralize nitrogenous wastes that are produced. If you're looking to speed cycling time, add some plants, since you can't get filter media from anywhere. Plants will come covered in bacteria, and they also use nitrogenous wastes too, unlike prime or stability which just detoxify it (it's still there).


----------



## artemisblossom (May 22, 2008)

Stability claims to "rapidly establish the aquarium biofilter" and is supposed to contain bacteria and whatnot. I thought Prime was some kind of a water conditioner........I use well water and use no chemicals to change the compositon of the water, but in any event I don;t know that it helped much anyway. I am going to buy some plants on the way home from work tonight . I need something that is hardy and can tolerate lower light levels as I just have the lights that came with the tank.


----------



## Cory_Dad (Apr 18, 2008)

Even if you are on well water you might have to use a conditioner. Not only will it help with the chlorine and chloramine but it also neutralizes heavy metals. It can't hurt.


----------



## duffgrot (Jul 4, 2008)

I find potted plants work extremely well in speeding up a cycle over a regular rooted plant, or you can try some anubis or java fern thats attached itself to some drift wood. The more porous the substance and the more mass that you are moving from a cycled to a cycling tank, the more you are impregnating your new tank with ammonia eating and nitrifying bacteria. Gravel/substrate from cycled tanks, filters from cycled tanks, and even using water from an established tank have helped me. By using plants, 100% cycled water from my 50 gal, and a cycled HOB filter, I was able to cycle a 10 gallon tank in a very short amount of time.


----------



## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

If you use plants, stem plants will be much better in removing nitrogenous wastes as their growth rates are far faster than anubias or fern species. They grow too slowly to appreciably use up any nitrogenous wastes, whereas stem plants (the kind you might buy in bunches) will grow very fast whilst soaking up those wastes.


----------



## duffgrot (Jul 4, 2008)

I've also found it useful to add fish food to the equation if I'm doing a fishless cycle, as the decomposing food is a source of ammonia for bacteria.

I agree the growth rates of stem plants are faster, but that is only useful in absorbing nitrates, and if your tank is producing nitrates, it is already cycled.
What you are trying to do when you are cycling a tank is to create bacterial colonies by introducing food sources and a place to live. By adding potted plants with dense root structures or pieces of porous drift wood or lava rock or even HOB filters that were from established tanks, you are adding bacterial colonies into the tank to impregnate it. Just be sure that when you add these colonies, you feed them as well, which is where either adding pure ammonia, fish food, or a few fish help promote bacterial growth.


----------



## artemisblossom (May 22, 2008)

Cory Dad I don't have chlorine or chloromine or anything like that in my water it is pure well water, no chemicals or heavy metals, so i was advised not to add any chemicals to the water, other than the stuff that claims to help cycle the tank.

I am not sure what my lfs has in stock for plants I went to petsmart tonight and they had no plants at all, but I will try the other fish store tomorrow. I have gravel in the bottom of the tank and have a good size piece of driftwood and some resin type ornaments. I think the java moss (if I am lucky enough to find any) will grow on the driftwood but what about the gravel and resin stuff will any low light plants grow on this stuff or in the gravel?? Should I also buy some kind of fertilizer?? Do the plants need any special care on being transported home or introduced to the tank? Would it be better to add them when I do a water change?


----------



## Cory_Dad (Apr 18, 2008)

artemisblossom said:


> Cory Dad I don't have chlorine or chloromine or anything like that in my water it is pure well water, no chemicals or heavy metals, so i was advised not to add any chemicals to the water, other than the stuff that claims to help cycle the tank.
> 
> I am not sure what my lfs has in stock for plants I went to petsmart tonight and they had no plants at all, but I will try the other fish store tomorrow. I have gravel in the bottom of the tank and have a good size piece of driftwood and some resin type ornaments. I think the java moss (if I am lucky enough to find any) will grow on the driftwood but what about the gravel and resin stuff will any low light plants grow on this stuff or in the gravel?? Should I also buy some kind of fertilizer?? Do the plants need any special care on being transported home or introduced to the tank? Would it be better to add them when I do a water change?


I'll take your word for it but if you have farm land around you I bet you have nitrogen compounds in your water and if you live in a rocky area (esp. with granite) I bet there's iron in it too.

As for plants, most will grow pretty much anywhere IF there are nutrients in the water. In a well stocked tank the fish waste will be enough but to make it really take off, go buy some Flourish and Flourish Excel. As for transporting plants, just keep them wet. I always put the plants into a bucket of water for 5 days or so as a quarantine (I try to minimize the number of snails that try to sneak in). Some people just rinse the plants when they get home and put then right into the tank. You choose what you want to do. Add them on your own timetable.

If you really want to get into 'the well planted tank' then there are a number of excellent web sites. But be warned, it's extremely expensive and time consuming but can be rewarding. (Don't look at me, I have 0 creativity to design and setup 'the well planted tank').

I'm heartened artemisblossom by the questions you're asking. They are all excellent and relevant. As a young lad I had several tanks but my knowledge of the hobby was at the amoeba level. That wasn't entirely my fault. There was a lot of mis information out there. The hobby has progressed light years since then and so has our understanding of the biology. This hobby is not primarily about keeping the fish alive, it's about maintaining a healthy water biosphere. Without that your fish are doomed anyway. So, it's really all about the water which kinda makes sense. In human terms if we are forced to breath car fumes and drink untreated Hamilton Bay water (sorry Hamilton (that's a steel mill city here in Ontario Canada), don't mean to pick on you) then how healthy will we be?

This forum and it's inmates, err, subscribers are an excellent source of information. But I recommend you also do some reading, either buy the books and/or magazines or go to your local library (make sure the books aren't too dated).

This is a fun hobby when things work out but it can be heart breaking when 'the s h i t hits the fan'.

Cheers.


----------



## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Cory_Dad said:


> This is a fun hobby when things work out but it can be heart breaking when 'the s h i t hits the fan'.


Ah, the disclaimer. Too true.

I'd go with the recommendations for the well water. Unless you have had it tested, and have the readout and are sure of the results, then I would err on the side of caution.

That aside...Plants are great!!! I think all tanks need plants  Keep them moist, and they will be happy. Qt is a good idea, especially to avoid hitch hikers. Even if you don't see them, there's a good chance they're there, so if you don't want any, qt is the way to go.
Planted tanks are really rewarding, and IMO really add to the environment of the fish. There really is much more activity, especially with SA and most asian species when the right type of plant cover is provided. Your efforts planting will be rewarded for sure!!!


----------

