# My first filtration setup



## MaxTO (Apr 8, 2013)

I am newly into this hobby and was hoping for some opinions on my filtration system . Couple of things off the start , the supplier gave me the wrong sump as well as the wrong skimmer . The supplier is going to correct this issue and they have reordered me the correct sump which should be the Marineland Acrylic High-capacity sump model 4 , and not the model 3 , which I was given . Do to the smaller sump that I was given I can't fit an adequate skimmer into my sump do to a lack of the required vertical inches of water column . The very most I can get out of the model 3 is 5 inches . I am hoping that when I get the model 4 , the sump that I should have got , that it will provide the 6 to 7 inches of water that is required to allow me to install the bigger skimmer , which I also paid for and was expecting .

Looking at my setup , if I wanted to incorporate a refugium into my setup what would be the most practical way of doing so ?

I welcome your comments and if any of you have a similar sump and would like to provide some insight it would be much appreciated


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

MaxTO;321735
Looking at my setup said:


> http://gtaaquaria.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=207&pictureid=1352[/IMG]


to return this sump to supplier or to drill holes and connect the refusiom tank to this this one (create flow between two) but in this case you should run part of the return flow to the refusium

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## MaxTO (Apr 8, 2013)

sig said:


> to return this sump to supplier or to drill holes and connect the refusiom tank to this this one (create flow between two) but in this case you should run part of the return flow to the refusium


Thanks for the reply ! 
So if I understand you correctly , I should tee into the return off the sump , install a flow control valve then run the line to the tank intended for the refusium ?

Then by gravity , or another small pump , return the water to the skimmer chamber ?

Any thoughts on size of tank required for the refugium ? My tank is 125 gal and my guess is that my current sump holds 20 - 30 gal .


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## fesso clown (Nov 15, 2011)

If it's not too late I would use the excuse that they gave you the wrong sump return that sump and don't get the model 4. It's not really suitable for saltwater, too much mechanical filtration that require way too much maintaince and will potentially become a nitrate factory. 
There is no big rush to get your sump running while you are cycling, use the next week or 2 to find a proper sump for 1/2 the price of that thing. 
You really only need a tank with 3 chambers:
A skimmer section, a return section and a refugium section.

Read here:
http://www.melevsreef.com/allmysumps.html

EDIT: the SWC 160 is a good skimmer, don't worry about that.


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## fesso clown (Nov 15, 2011)

This guy has a nice sump for sale, don't know if the dimentions are suitable for you. Also a disclaimer- I don't know him/her I just did a quick search in the classifieds and this was the first result. 
http://gtaaquaria.com/forum/showthread.php?t=43387&highlight=sump+sale


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## MaxTO (Apr 8, 2013)

fesso clown said:


> If it's not too late I would use the excuse that they gave you the wrong sump return that sump and don't get the model 4. It's not really suitable for saltwater, too much mechanical filtration that require way too much maintaince and will potentially become a nitrate factory.
> There is no big rush to get your sump running while you are cycling, use the next week or 2 to find a proper sump for 1/2 the price of that thing.
> You really only need a tank with 3 chambers:
> A skimmer section, a return section and a refugium section.
> ...


So a tank with no filter ? Where do I find such a thing ? 
Maybe I am misunderstanding you , I will need to read the link you posted later tonight when I have the time to really sit down and read all the info posted there


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## fesso clown (Nov 15, 2011)

That is correct, generally we don't use "filters" in saltwater. Our main filtration comes from our live rock, skimmer and macro-algea in the refugium. Some people use filter-socks on their drain line in the sump but other than that it is generally accepted that filters do more damage then good and are a PITA to maintain.


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## MaxTO (Apr 8, 2013)

fesso clown said:


> That is correct, generally we don't use "filters" in saltwater. Our main filtration comes from our live rock, skimmer and macro-algea in the refugium. Some people use filter-socks on their drain line in the sump but other than that it is generally accepted that filters do more damage then good and are a PITA to maintain.


I just sent the guy an email that is selling that sump so I will wait to hear back from him .

Having no filters sounds a bit advanced for a noob like me  but I will look into it .


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## fesso clown (Nov 15, 2011)

MaxTO said:


> I just sent the guy an email that is selling that sump so I will wait to hear back from him .
> 
> Having no filters sounds a bit advanced for a noob like me  but I will look into it .


Quite the opposite, keep it simple. If you're coming from a FW background I can understand your apprehention but trust me no filters are needed. Live rock is your friend!


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## MaxTO (Apr 8, 2013)

fesso clown said:


> Quite the opposite, keep it simple. If you're coming from a FW background I can understand your apprehention but trust me no filters are needed. Live rock is your friend!


Shoot the big sump he has is to large for my stand the 20" wide is just to big


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## fesso clown (Nov 15, 2011)

what is the size inside your stand?


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## fesso clown (Nov 15, 2011)

I just looked it up and Holy sh!!!T that sump you bought is like $600 bucks. Dude.... return it. 
You can get an awesome suitable sump for a couple hundred...


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## MaxTO (Apr 8, 2013)

fesso clown said:


> I just looked it up and Holy sh!!!T that sump you bought is like $600 bucks. Dude.... return it.
> You can get an awesome suitable sump for a couple hundred...


15.5" wid is the best I can do comfortably . Length 71" of inside cabinet , taking up ever inch . However would probably need room to wiggle everything in there


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## altcharacter (Jan 10, 2011)

As Jeff said, with saltwater tanks it's quite the opposite of freshwater. In a saltwater system the whole system is "alive" and work in harmony. Creatures like worms, stars, pods, and snails all filter the substrate for you. If you wanted to go a step further then you would keep the skimmer that you have to purify the water and get out the solids in the water column.

I myself use a filter sock and change it twice a week since I don't have a skimmer and I find this helps alot. But with any type of filtration in saltwater you might actually cause harm. Filtration in a SW tank leads to build up of solids, which will lead to nitrates and phosphates going thru the roof. It is actually better to not have filtration so junk can fall into the substrate and be filtered out by your critters or be cleaned by your protein skimmer. If you're still having a hard time figuring this out...just think of it this way. Your bio-wheels would do the same work as your protein skimmer.

Lastly, there are alot of tanks out there (including mine) who have no filtration on them and do just fine. 

Although I have alot of macro algae that is sucking up the nitrates

Good luck!!


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## TypeZERO (Jul 20, 2007)

Wow 600.... I think jt can make a customized sump for less than that. Those towera look like drip plates which work too efficiently, and can produce lotsa nitrates and phosphates which is bad for reef tanks but has its palce for fiah only systems.


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## MaxTO (Apr 8, 2013)

How does on find a good place / person to construct a custom sump for a reasonable amount of money ?


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## J_T (Mar 25, 2011)

I can for sure build you a sump!


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## MaxTO (Apr 8, 2013)

J_T said:


> I can for sure build you a sump!


Just sent you a pm


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## J_T (Mar 25, 2011)

going to out for a bit yet, but I will get back to you when I get home.

Sent from my {HTC X8} using Board Express


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## altcharacter (Jan 10, 2011)

Just do yourself and all of us a favor and get it done by J_T. He's our resident acrylic guy and I don't know if you can find anyone out there that would give him a bad review.



It's getting really hard to find people that haven't had something made by him.


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## MaxTO (Apr 8, 2013)

Does having a refugium in the sump end up killing the good pods by sending them through the sump ?

Also , in a filter system it's pretty straight forward , change the filter pads roughly once every two weeks .. With no filters what needs to be changed and how often ?


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## altcharacter (Jan 10, 2011)

copepods and amphipods usually breed in your sump due to the lower flow and no predators in the area. They then get sucked up into the aquarium where they tend to also multiply but not as fast.

In a saltwater system it really depends on what you're going to use as filtration. We've seen that you'll be using a protein skimmer so of course that will need to be emptied every so often. Also it's a good idea to vacuum your substrate once a month or so to get out any garbage that the critters haven't picked up. And lastly, you can use a filter sock over your pipe going into your sump as a filter for larger debris and leftover food. 

Hope this helped


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## MaxTO (Apr 8, 2013)

So just to see if I understand this 

Inlet chamber passing through a filter sock and skimmer , then overflow baffle into the refugium which contains sand , live rock and the algae . Then off to the pump chamber ? 

No bio balls or carbon filter ?


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## altcharacter (Jan 10, 2011)

pretty much. You can run carbon but that's a whole other story.

If you want to come by my house I can explain everything over a beer or tea and cookies. PM me with your info


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## fesso clown (Nov 15, 2011)

If you get JT to build you one he will help you understand what's it's all for. He's a great guy and will build you a much better sump then that Marineland. Have a Look at his feedback on this site.


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## altcharacter (Jan 10, 2011)

Now I wouldn't go as far to say he's a "great guy"

He's a guy for sure...


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## tom g (Jul 8, 2009)

*sump*

just saw the sellers sump excellent shape i would say 10 of 10 shape .
cheers


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## J_T (Mar 25, 2011)

Were talking 

And once again, thanks everyone for the referal


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## J_T (Mar 25, 2011)

altcharacter said:


> Now I wouldn't go as far to say he's a "great guy"
> 
> He's a guy for sure...


I knew I should have added some pictures while I had that camera....


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## fesso clown (Nov 15, 2011)

J_T said:


> Were talking
> 
> And once again, thanks everyone for the referal


Good. MaxTo, listen to this guy!


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