# How much of a problem are Nirates. REALLY ?



## Dax (Sep 29, 2010)

My nitrates are up over 100 (anywhere between 120 -180) and have been there since I started 2 weeks ago. In the past 4 days I've done 4 partial water changes (10-15%) and no noticeable change. I haven't put a whole lot of food in there either (3 cubes mysis in 2 weeks). There is a large Heniochus (8") and a large BTA (10-12") in there. Both look healthy. There is some algae and a little bit of the red slime cyanobacteria, but nothing excessive.

Quick history:
bought a 3 yr old establised tank and moved everything from it to a my new one (60gal-60 gal). Has a HOB filter, protein skimmer, 65lbs live rock, CF lighting. I added another canister fillter and 1" aragonite substrate. 

I don't know what the original tank nitrate levels were since the other guy never checked, but I would guess there were high.


Some of you guys gave me some great advice on ways to manage nitrogen levels, but except for the Nitrates everything is perfect. I'm going to do partial changes every day for a few days and try to convert the HOB filter to a fuge.

I'm not planning on doing any corals right now, but really want to add a few fish and maybe some sort of clean up crew.

PLEASE KEEP ME HONEST . I know this is a game of patience but with a couple of little kids pushing me and me being a pushover, it's really hard not to start throwing stuff in there.

I'd like to put in a couple of clowns and maybe 3-4 chromis. Not sure about what to add for a clean-up crew, but I have 4 large snails in there. That would keep me happy for a while.

What do you guys suggest ?


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

In my opinion, you have asked a question that really needs a lot more research!

The generally held belief is that high nitrates are bad. I personally am on the fence, but I won't get into that here as I will probably be ripped to shreds!

In any case, I would try to lower your nitrates - and there are some methods you can employ to do that.

I'm assuming you have a decent amount of liverock in the tank, so the first step is to help promote the bacteria that will remove your nitrate, but this can take time to establish. By having nitrates, you are essentially promoting their growth already!

In the meantime, to bring them down you can do two things which I think will help you:

1) Large water changes (25-50% every two days or so until you see your nitrate fall)
2) Add in some macro-algae directly to the tank - it should help suck up all your nitrate. When you are happy with the levels, you can either leave it, trim it way back, replace the inside of your HOB to become a refugium or even try removing it altogether.

You may also want to determine if you have enough flow in your tank, as this can help in keeping your tank healthy.

Hope that helps some.


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## KeMo (Sep 3, 2010)

Nitrates @ such high levels is not normal. That is really high. 
Ok first thing. Are you cleaning/changing the filter in the hang on at least every 2 weeks. Those HOB filters can become a nitrate factory if you are not ontop of cleaning it. Also You said you also added a canister filter. What are you running in it. I would only run something like chemi pure and or carbon. Dont run the bio media as it can also get dirty and start to put out Nitrates. 
Have you tested the water that you are doing water changes with ?
If you have nitrates at say 100 ppm and you do a 50% water change , then test the water , you should get a reading of 50 ppm or around their for your nitrates. If nothing is happening when you do you water changes as in no change , its prob your water source. 
Also Red slime is a sign that your water is high but then we know that. You want to start to battle this as Red slime can be bad and start to really take over. Snails and most of the CUC will not do so good with Nitrates so high in fact I dont think you should add anything until you can get them down to at least 20 or so. 
Also what could of been the case is and this happens alot is the person you got the tank from really over fed his tank. Most people do. Because he really over feed his tank the LR is going to be full of lots of crap that is going to take a long time to leech out. 
Really you should of not gotten that canister filter and really made or got a used sump that you can run some Chaetomorpha and a DSB. 
Prob the sales guy at the store telling you that you need a canister like they told me @ big als and my Nitrates are never above 10
Try what i said and keep us all posted.


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## bioload (Oct 20, 2009)

If you are planning on a fish only tank it will not be a too much of a concern. High levels of Nitrate can be tolerated by marine fish, unlike Ammonia and Nitrite.

My Nitrate levels have been off the scale since my tank was set up back in April and I'm currently working on getting those levels down......before I start adding any inverts or corals. I'd like to get an RBTA for my two clowns.

Adding a couple clowns and a couple chromis would not be an issue, however, I would remove the anemone until you get your parameters stable.

When in doubt target the amounts that exists in natural reefs as your guide. For nitrates that would be typically below 0.1 ppm.

Here are some good reads:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/index.php
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/august2003/chem.htm


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## Dax (Sep 29, 2010)

Ok, the canister has 3 carbon and 3 biomedia, which are only 2 weeks old. I already rinsed them out a couple of days ago in the tank water for any crap in there.

I guess I'll be waiting to add anything, but i'm more concerned about the anemone right now. It looks ok, but I don't really know cause I've never had one. It opens and closes with day and night, gets really huge (from 4"-10 "), the colour is a nice pink, it's mouth is sometimes wide open but mostly closed. At one point it looked like it was going to split. So, basically, don't know how it's doing. What options do I have for removing it from the tank until things settle? i.e. where to put it and how to move it? ...it's stuck on 3 large rocks.

I never considered the LR as a potential source of problems, but should I get a brush in there?


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## Dax (Sep 29, 2010)

Just wanted to add, I'm using RO water for changes and the I tested it for nitrates which came back 0. The HOB filter has carbon and a new poly filter, which is supposed to be good for nitrates. There are a lot of critters all over the rocks and the aragonite seems to be coming alive.


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## bioload (Oct 20, 2009)

Attached to three separate rocks could be a problem. Manually removing from the rock can cause damage to the nem. I haven't tried myself but some recommend using a power head to persuade it to move.

http://www.reefkeeping.ca/forum/media.php?do=details&mid=46

Maybe someone with an established tank would be willing to give it a home....is it feeding?


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## carmenh (Dec 20, 2009)

Have you tested with more than one kit? False reading maybe? I'd take in a sample or buy a new test kit, if you got it with the tank it may be outdated???


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Some good and "other" advice here 

I'm envious of that big heniochus 

Without a doubt, the source of your nitrates are from the move. If it's an established tank you've moved, crap will come out. Like moving everything in a room after it's been there for 3 years - dust comes out. 

As for removing the nitrates, the best solution for you is to do water changes with RO/DI water - tap water has some nitrates in it so it can contribute to the problem. Also, tap water has a lot of silicates and phosphates which can fuel algae in your tank.

If you're going for a fish-only tank, I'm sure high nitrate values will be tolerated fine by most fish. If your tank and the critters in it are looking fine, don't sweat it for the existing members. Although I would be leery of adding anything new as they may not be as nitrate tolerant as the existing stock has likely become.

Given a few water changes, I'm sure you'll be back at a respectable and safe nitrate level.


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

I wouldn't remove your anenome - if it looks to be doing fine, then it likely is. No doubt it has adapted to the water parameters and likely it will do the same again as you lower your nitrates.


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## KeMo (Sep 3, 2010)

I would not remove the Anemone , just like other's have said. It could stress him out more. Just keep up with the water changes and ontop of the filter cleaning and you should be good.


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## Dax (Sep 29, 2010)

Thanks for the feedback. Basically I'm hearing that leave things alone for a while and things should settle in. Just keep up with the water changes.

Ameekplec. The Heniochus at that size looks awesome, but seems to be too big for my tank. It likes to hang out in this 10" high tunnel, which I tell you is not easy to create in a 48x24x12" tank. I've seen some of these at Big Al's, which they call large and they look like babies next to this thing. If you have a large tank and would like one of these, let me know and maybe we can work something out. Right now I'd rather go for a larger quantity, which means a smaller sized batch.

I could use some ideas on a CUC and any upcoming sales for them. After all, we're talking mass quantities, yes?




with all the rock in there. If you want to work something out


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## Dax (Sep 29, 2010)

*To do or not to do, that is the question.*

Going to try something tonight (50% water change). Here is the method I'm thinking about so that I don't shock the system:

Make 25 gal new water (assume rocks displace 10 gal)
Remove 5 gal tank water and mix to new water
Replace 5 gal from new mix back to tank
Wait for tank to cycle 10-15 minutes
Repeat 2 more times.
Continue 2 more times tomorrow.

Theory:
50gal old+25gal new= 75 gal mix
Remove 25 gal of original tank water with this method.
25/75= 33% change
Therefore, nitrates should drop by 33%

Let me know, Green light or Red light.


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## KeMo (Sep 3, 2010)

Sound all confusing . LoL
So I think you said like your gona change up 25 %
Umm you said mix to new water. You can do a 25% water change without having to do it in 10% batches. Just test your water before you do the change, so you know were everything is at. Then make your New water the same . Make the temp/ph and everything the same. 
Also test for nitrates before and after. I would wait another 3 days or so before the next change. 
Never reuse the old water from your tank for make up water.


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

KeMo said:


> Sound all confusing . LoL
> So I think you said like your gona change up 25 %
> Umm you said mix to new water. You can do a 25% water change without having to do it in 10% batches. Just test your water before you do the change, so you know were everything is at. Then make your New water the same . Make the temp/ph and everything the same.
> Also test for nitrates before and after. I would wait another 3 days or so before the next change.
> Never reuse the old water from your tank for make up water.


Agreed - if the goal is to change 25%, just take 25% out, and mix 25% new. Match salinity and temperature and you will be fine.


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## Dax (Sep 29, 2010)

Excellent article on water changes linked to me by Big Ray.
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-10/rhf/index.php

Going to make a lot a smaller water changes every day.


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