# 60 gallon cube build planning



## Davenreef (Jul 9, 2013)

Hi all.

This is the first thread that i have posted on this site, however i have been using gtaaquaria for some time now (moving right along). I was looking for some advice on my next build, most equipment I have already purchased/kept from previous builds, so equipment listed first... Then questions.


DT:60g cube 24x24x24 rimless internal OF(built by miracles),AI vega colour x2,vertex150 skimmer, vertex 2L media reactor,mp40, apex jr w pm1 and BOB.

Anyway, i am looking for some solid experience/advice on ATO's which work well with apex BOB. Also you may have noticed no sump info yet this is because i am undecided what size it is going to be, i would like to add a potential frag tank to the system down the line and would like the sump to be able to accommodate it, so as of right now I am planning a remote sump, hopefully at least 50g. But still undecided. Thoughts/experience with remote sumps? Finally DSB????


----------



## Tristan (Aug 15, 2011)

I don't think the break out box works on the junior. Just a heads up.


----------



## J_T (Mar 25, 2011)

IMO, on the tank size you have, don't bother with a DSB. To fully utilize one, you need good surface area. Most times, you can out perform the DSB with a good skimmer! 

My tank with 36x36, is a good size for a DSB. Lots of surface area, good flow, and the rock work was designed to work with it!


----------



## noy (Nov 19, 2012)

Davenreef said:


> Hi all.
> 
> This is the first thread that i have posted on this site, however i have been using gtaaquaria for some time now (moving right along). I was looking for some advice on my next build, most equipment I have already purchased/kept from previous builds, so equipment listed first... Then questions.
> 
> ...


I looked at pics of the Apex Jr. online - it doesn't seem to have the 8 pin input for the BOB. Just make sure you can plug in the BOB.

If you are using APEX as your ATO - all you need are 2 float switches with brackets - you don't need an ATO really. The switches from DA are pretty good. I have a SMART ATO system and will be programming the APEX and a float switch as the safety.

Remote sump is fine and will let you run a larger water volume (usually space limited under the tank). You just need more plumbing and stronger return pump to do it.

DSB looks crummy after a while. Looks even crummier in a cube with 4 sides. You can get all the filtration you need from live rock and good skimmer - run a DSB in your sump if you must.


----------



## Davenreef (Jul 9, 2013)

Good stuff.

Alright, first off, apex jr does not have ability in itself to run BOB, that being said I have the expansion pm1 unit, which has ability to monitor Orp/pH as well as run BOB.

I already have purchased x2 float switches but im not sure how to configure an ATO to work with them/ whether i can integrate the whole system to be controlled by apex vs an independent ATO system with apex controller as safe guard... Because i have the apex jr, im trying to save outlet spots  anyway just wanting to know if its possible/ anyone has experience with????

Not hearing too much support for DSB... I think vertex omega 150 is probably big enough.. My goal is to have a heavily stocked display tank with a total system vol of around 120g, so i wanted to have another means to reduce no3.. That being said, would LR, skimmer, biopellets and water changes be enough to for go the DSB. 

Anyway thx for the replies/input.

D.


----------



## noy (Nov 19, 2012)

Davenreef said:


> Good stuff.
> 
> Alright, first off, apex jr does not have ability in itself to run BOB, that being said I have the expansion pm1 unit, which has ability to monitor Orp/pH as well as run BOB.
> 
> ...


To hook it up put one end of the float switch into one of the inputs and the other end into the ground switch (GND). Plug the pump you intend to use into one of the outlets (if you use tom's aqualifter - you need to use one of the relay outlets - that because of the low voltage draw on the pump). Program the outlet to turn on when the control switch is CLOSED and to turn off when the safety switch is CLOSED. If you need programming examples - start another thread but there are plenty of examples in RC and Neptune's forum.

This is an example of using a project box to protect the BOB. I don't use the apex to control ATO precisely because I didn't want to use 2 inputs.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2307970


----------



## Tristan (Aug 15, 2011)

Sorry you misunderstood what I meant. I am pretty sure, having experienced it myself that the bob when connected to a pm1 on an apex jr doesnt consistently work. I had it on a clients tank and every three days or so it would reverse the polarity on my switches. We contacted apex and they said it doesn't communicate properly with the jr.

I run a complex Apex system on my personal tank controlling ato, high levels, low levels, lunar cycle along with profiles for my leds and powerheads.

Im not some idiot that couldn't figure out how to program it 

I will check my emails and see what they said again


----------



## Tristan (Aug 15, 2011)

I just did a quick search online and it says it should work... I am likely wrong (which is good news) but I know the one he had wouldn't work properly.


----------



## Davenreef (Jul 9, 2013)

Well thats discouraging... Did apex address the issue at all or offer any other solution/compensation for the malfunctioning unit?


----------



## Tristan (Aug 15, 2011)

Davenreef said:


> Well thats discouraging... Did apex address the issue at all or offer any other solution/compensation for the malfunctioning unit?


If we sent in the head unit they would look at it and see if there were any issues. If no issues were found they would send it back or offer a cheap replacement. If they did find issues they would repair it or send a new one. Its a lengthy process.

It's hard though as you can't quickly or easily take a system off of an Apex controller. Odds are if you are running an Apex unit most things are integrated into it and don't have their own controllers. Without my Apex I wouldn't be able to run my multichip LED as it would stop controlling the individual channels and be too powerful.


----------



## Davenreef (Jul 9, 2013)

Tristan said:


> If we sent in the head unit they would look at it and see if there were any issues. If no issues were found they would send it back or offer a cheap replacement. If they did find issues they would repair it or send a new one. Its a lengthy process.
> 
> It's hard though as you can't quickly or easily take a system off of an Apex controller. Odds are if you are running an Apex unit most things are integrated into it and don't have their own controllers. Without my Apex I wouldn't be able to run my multichip LED as it would stop controlling the individual channels and be too powerful.


Well, I hope it doesnt come to that... I do have AI controller still... I suppose i can always default to that if things go pear shaped, but lets hope you got a defective one off... Keep you posted forsure..

Just to clarify (assuming everything is functioning as it should ) i will need 2 ports on the BOB for floatswitches and a controllable outlet on main bus (of which I have only 4)for the low flow pump aka Toms aquafiler?


----------



## Tristan (Aug 15, 2011)

Davenreef said:


> Well, I hope it doesnt come to that... I do have AI controller still... I suppose i can always default to that if things go pear shaped, but lets hope you got a defective one off... Keep you posted forsure..
> 
> Just to clarify (assuming everything is functioning as it should ) i will need 2 ports on the BOB for floatswitches and a controllable outlet on main bus (of which I have only 4)for the low flow pump aka Toms aquafiler?


yes that is correct


----------



## noy (Nov 19, 2012)

Davenreef said:


> Well, I hope it doesnt come to that... I do have
> Just to clarify (assuming everything is functioning as it should ) i will need 2 ports on the BOB for floatswitches and a controllable outlet on main bus (of which I have only 4)for the low flow pump aka Toms aquafiler?


yes for the 2 ports and outlet but i had a quick look at apex jr. quick start manual and it doesn't indicate there are any relay controlled outlets (vs. a EB8 - which has 2). You can't turn off a Tom's Aqualifter w/o a relay outlet - the power draw is too low for it to be controlled. I can tell you that from personal experience. You can use another low flow pump however.

http://forum.neptunesystems.com/showthread.php?1914-Aqualifter


----------



## Tristan (Aug 15, 2011)

You could use a maxi jet and just put a 30 min delay on the top off. So when the float switch drops calling for water the apex waits 30 min before turning on the maxijet. I do this even for my low flow pumps so you don't end up with extra water.

like when you start your return pump it can sometimes take a minute to balance out. Or if you are doing anything in the sump and make a wave.


----------



## Davenreef (Jul 9, 2013)

noy said:


> yes for the 2 ports and outlet but i had a quick look at apex jr. quick start manual and it doesn't indicate there are any relay controlled outlets (vs. a EB8 - which has 2). You can't turn off a Tom's Aqualifter w/o a relay outlet - the power draw is too low for it to be controlled. I can tell you that from personal experience. You can use another low flow pump however.
> 
> http://forum.neptunesystems.com/showthread.php?1914-Aqualifter


What low flow pump would you recommend? I thought that toms aqualifter was just a low flow pump? Still dont get why it cant be controlled apex outlet..


----------



## Davenreef (Jul 9, 2013)

Sorry... Feel like a noob.


----------



## Davenreef (Jul 9, 2013)

noy said:


> yes for the 2 ports and outlet but i had a quick look at apex jr. quick start manual and it doesn't indicate there are any relay controlled outlets (vs. a EB8 - which has 2). You can't turn off a Tom's Aqualifter w/o a relay outlet - the power draw is too low for it to be controlled. I can tell you that from personal experience. You can use another low flow pump however.
> 
> http://forum.neptunesystems.com/showthread.php?1914-Aqualifter


All four look like they are mechanical relays on apex jr.

http://forum.neptunesystems.com/showthread.php?20-Read-this-first-Energy-Bars-and-outlets

Hoping I can make this all work... but now i have to come up with solenoid to control RO/DI unit... Any suggestions?.


----------



## noy (Nov 19, 2012)

Davenreef said:


> All four look like they are mechanical relays on apex jr.
> 
> http://forum.neptunesystems.com/showthread.php?20-Read-this-first-Energy-Bars-and-outlets
> 
> Hoping I can make this all work... but now i have to come up with solenoid to control RO/DI unit... Any suggestions?.


think you are right - so you should be OK.

Don't think you really need a solenoid to for the RO/DI - I have a 8 gallon container which I refill every 3-4 days manually. Just refill your ATO water container manually.


----------

