# Will any kind of rock be fine?



## andygace (Jan 1, 2009)

Tonight I went over to the loval crushed stone / cement factory and picked out a few rocks from one of the many big piles thats going to be crushed...

I can take pics of it if there is only certain kinds you can use, but generally will all work? I soaked it in really hot water for about an hour after rinsing it off.. hope it will be okay!


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## Tropicana (Feb 15, 2009)

hey andygace, i have read that depending how safe the rock is depends on your water parameters, PH the main concern. a high PH(8.0+) will generally keep the bad metals locked in and a low PH(7.5-) will dissolve them into the aquarium. but Don't trust what you read all the time. i would like to see other peoples views on rocks also as i dont have that much experience in the rock department. .


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## xr8dride (Feb 24, 2009)

Apparently boiling them, not just really hot water, is best. I'm not sure about this but I did read some time ago that if the rock has any kind of shiney particles in it, it should NOT be used. If your concern is PH, and it should be, leave the rock in a bucket with some kind of flow...check the PH before adding the rock and compare it a couple days later after the rock has been submersed. Some rocks will raise the PH in your system.


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## overleaf (Feb 1, 2009)

andygace said:


> Tonight I went over to the loval crushed stone / cement factory and picked out a few rocks from one of the many big piles thats going to be crushed...
> 
> I can take pics of it if there is only certain kinds you can use, but generally will all work? I soaked it in really hot water for about an hour after rinsing it off.. hope it will be okay!


What kind of fish will you be keeping?


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## Cory (May 2, 2008)

If it is cement, don't put it in the tank. Many natural rocks are aquarium safe but stay away from marble and granite, quartz, micah quartz, tufa and any rocks that are overly porous. If you put it in water and it starts to dissolve that's also a good sign it wont do well in the aquarium .


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## overleaf (Feb 1, 2009)

Cory said:


> If it is cement, don't put it in the tank. Many natural rocks are aquarium safe but stay away from marble and granite, quartz, micah quartz, tufa and any rocks that are overly porous. If you put it in water and it starts to dissolve that's also a good sign it wont do well in the aquarium .


That's not always true. Why would you avoid all those rocks?

Sometimes the dissolving is desired especially if it's limestone and your fish require alkaline water.

The only recommendation that can be made without knowing the species of fish being kept and their optimal water parameters is to stay away from anything metalish/true black lava rocks. If you see rusting etc...


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## Katalyst (Jul 29, 2007)

Cory said:


> If it is cement, don't put it in the tank. Many natural rocks are aquarium safe but stay away from marble and granite, quartz, micah quartz, tufa and any rocks that are overly porous. If you put it in water and it starts to dissolve that's also a good sign it wont do well in the aquarium .


Actually slate, granite, marble and quartz are all examples of *good* rocks that can be used in the aquarium without harming the inhabitants. I've used both tufa & lava rock for years as well in all of my shrimp tanks, they like to snack on the biofilm that builds up on them. The only thing I'd be careful with when using tufa or lava is that they are both sharp and can scratch/damage fish. I also use it broken up in small pieces as biomedia and it works great.

I've kept several tanks seperately with marble, granite, as well as slate specifically to check for changes in water params & to date no changes. If it were harmful I certianly wouldn't be keeping it in any of my tanks or using it to build caves.

If you are unsure if a stone is safe, try putting a few drops of vinegar on it's surface. If you notice fizzing, then avoid that type of rock. This used to be a part of an experiement I did called 'Pet Rock' with my bio students and they loved it.


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## andygace (Jan 1, 2009)




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## BillD (Jun 5, 2006)

Have to agree with Katalyst on this. Granite is a great rock for aquariums, as is slate, quartz (silica sand anyone?) and many others. Most of the rocks I have are some form of granite or slate (courtesy of the shore of Lake Ontario.) The nice thing about the rocks from the lakeshore is that they have been worn smooth by water action. Rocks from the lake I bleach before use.


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## grump (Apr 20, 2009)

Do not use cement in your tank there is lime and a bunch of other things used too made it that will kill your fish and cycle....Rob


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## Cory (May 2, 2008)

To explain my reasoning:

Marble contains calcium carbonate a compound which will dissolve in water containing carbon dioxide (which our fish or co2 components produce). Dissolved calcium carbonate will cause hard water and whilst that may not always be undesirable I never recommend that anyone play with their water chemistry unless they know what they are doing and have a reason for doing it. While small amounts of marble may not cause big problems in the short term in the long run they can. Hard water may be desirable for some African cichlids but for south American fish which comprise a majority of the fish normally sold in the trade, softer water is desirable. Hard water can also cause problems with plant growth in the planted setup. Hard water also leads to undesirable calcium buildup on the rims of the tank making for unsightly white crusts in the dry areas of the tank. 

Granite when pure poses no problems for the aquarium. Problems arise however when veins of metallic substances are found within the rock or attached to it. If you are careful in choosing your rocks you will be alright, if you make a mistake granite can cause problems.

Mica Quartz is what I mentioned specifically. not all quartz. It is a bad rock choice because it is composed of flaky materials which fall off in the water, both floating and sinking in the tank. While not a chemical hazard, the flakes can clog and damage filters and they are an unsightly nuisance. Sure, you can clean it out regularly but why bother when better choices are available?

Tufa, even more so than marble is rich in calcium carbonate and will have a strong effect on the composition of the water. Beyond that, it is incredibly soft and often fractures in the aquarium over time which can ruin a display or present dangerous sharp edges for your fish to get injured on. 

Rocks that are overly porous are prone to crumbling and making a mess in the aquarium and thus are undesirable choices but not unsuitable. 

As for slate, I never mentioned it as a bad choice because it isn't. I use it in most of my setups that have rockwork in them. 

In any case, knowing what type of environment your fish prefer will help you in choosing suitable rockwork for their aquarium. As I mentioned, cement is never a good choice and another thing to avoid is rock high in metal content. There are a lot of different rocks to choose from and if you make the right choices you can have a nice looking display that will keep your fish happy.


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## pat3612 (Jan 29, 2008)

Cory said:


> If it is cement, don't put it in the tank. Many natural rocks are aquarium safe but stay away from marble and granite, quartz, micah quartz, tufa and any rocks that are overly porous. If you put it in water and it starts to dissolve that's also a good sign it wont do well in the aquarium .


Granite and quartz and marble are fine for the aquarium they are some of the hardest rocks as a matter of fact they found out alot of the lakes in Africa are granite based.


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## Katalyst (Jul 29, 2007)

I can only go with my own experience, I tested marble for months. Other people were prodding me for months for granite and marble as well as limestone and I wouldn't do it until I knew it'd be aquarium safe. To date no change in any of water chemistry. And with the amount of money I've spend on my plecs it certianly wouldn't be in their tanks if I thought it would harm them. 

So lets have a draw on this one and agree to disagree.  I can certainly appreciate your point of view & I appreciate you posting it. When we can't have discussions such as this one without flaming one another its time to turn the computer off. Maybe I'll do a massive experiment, I have an empty 50 gallon sitting around. 

Opinions will always vary which is a good thing.


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

I have to agree and disagree too 

While I agree that granite is generally a very good choice to use due to it's stability (after all, the whole sheild is made of the stuff) there is a vein of truth to what Cory says.
Some granite veins can be high in metallic content; I know the composition of some local granites have some high iron content to them, so much to the point that when water gets into them they start to rust.

But in general, I'd say that granites are safe to use.

I like slate in my tanks - nice and flat for my little ones to hide under:


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## overleaf (Feb 1, 2009)

Page 2 and we're back to my original question: What kind of fish is the OP keeping?

We're wasting our time debating why rock type a sucks and rock type b rocks without knowing the type of fish being kept. Everything that cory says is bad I hunt for as I keep many cichlids from malawi and tanganyika, my water cannot be hard enough! The rocks alone don't alter the pH very much (0.3-0.5 points) so I buffer my tank by adding sodium bicarbonate.

Anyhow... need to know the type of fish you plan on keeping Andy.


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## pat3612 (Jan 29, 2008)

I think Kate is right its great we can discuss and debate subjects without flaming, otherwise how would we learn anything. Myself I have kept granite in my tanks with no change in the hardness course I have hard water anyway and keep a fair no of shrimp and different fish.


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## Cory (May 2, 2008)

Andygace is keeping South American cichlids in the tank if the picture he posted is anything to go by. South American cichlids with few exceptions prefer soft water. 

Most of what I base my opinion on was the 9 page article I read on the subject about a year ago in which the various contributors categorically denounced marble as a choice for aquarium rockwork. I remember the bit about calcium carbonate but there may also have been other reasons why they recommended not using it. 

In general though, it's not that those rocks cannot be used but that one should be careful when using them. Given that there are plenty of other really nice rocks out there that are inert one can find lots of great decorations without ever having to use the rocks I mentioned.


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## Sunstar (Jul 29, 2008)

grump said:


> Do not use cement in your tank there is lime and a bunch of other things used too made it that will kill your fish and cycle....Rob


I have used cement in an aquarium. You MUST cure it in water first, for a month or so. Never had a problem.


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## Katalyst (Jul 29, 2007)

overleaf said:


> Page 2 and we're back to my original question: What kind of fish is the OP keeping?
> 
> We're wasting our time debating why rock type a sucks and rock type b rocks without knowing the type of fish being kept. Everything that cory says is bad I hunt for as I keep many cichlids from malawi and tanganyika, my water cannot be hard enough! The rocks alone don't alter the pH very much (0.3-0.5 points) so I buffer my tank by adding sodium bicarbonate.
> 
> Anyhow... need to know the type of fish you plan on keeping Andy.


I'm sorry if my opinion and thoughts are a waste of your time Overleaf. I can't recall anyone saying one negative word about or to Cory. *'everything that cory says is bad'.* That's a pretty sweeping statement, comments such as those are usually what offends people and turns good conversations into arguments. When people can't agree to disagree nicely & in a respectful manner there's a problem. I have a lot of respect for Cory which I pointedly tried to express & thought I had done so successfully, my apologies to Cory if I've offended you.

My apologies to the OP, I certianly never intented to waste anyone's time.


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## overleaf (Feb 1, 2009)

Katalyst said:


> I'm sorry if my opinion and thoughts are a waste of your time Overleaf. I can't recall anyone saying one negative word about or to Cory. *'everything that cory says is bad'.* That's a pretty sweeping statement, comments such as those are usually what offends people and turns good conversations into arguments. When people can't agree to disagree nicely & in a respectful manner there's a problem. I have a lot of respect for Cory which I pointedly tried to express & thought I had done so successfully, my apologies to Cory if I've offended you.
> 
> My apologies to the OP, I certianly never intented to waste anyone's time.


Actually I was just saying that until we have more details we're all wasting our *own* time. Not sure how that turned into Kate's wasting our time, but that's a pretty self centered conclusion and one that is obviously very wrong.

As for "Everything Cory says is bad", what I intended to convey is that many of the rocks Cory outlines as "not doing well" in the aquarium are actually fantastic choices, which IIRC, is your stance too - seeing how you sell caves made from those materials.

I doubt Cory was offended when I was simply stating those rocks are desired in some circumstances, if he was then I guess he's in that same self centered world.

I'm nothing but helpful here, if you somehow read into my posts and interpret them as an attack on you, I'm not sure what I could do about that... taking the internet a bit more lightly would be my first recommendation.

It's really hard to put this into text but I'll try:

<Andy> Hey guys! What rocks are good?
<Cory> Stay away from XYZ, but C&D are good.
<overleaf> Andy - what kind of fish are you keeping? XYZ are desirable sometimes, we can't make a recommendation until we know.
<Kate> Cory, XYZ are good!
<overleaf> Andy, need to know the type of fish otherwise we're wasting our time (you can't give advice without facts!).
<Kate> Sorry I waste your time overleaf, your sweeping statements cause arguments.

That's twice in that thread you bring up flaming but I don't see a single flame... in fact, everyone is doing their best to help - Including cory!

Don't know why my posts got under your skin but please, lighten up as they weren't intended to.

AndyC, if you tell me what fish you keep I'll tell you what rocks you should look for, including citation resources.

*edit* Just to close - I hope you realize this was a misinterpretation based of my poor choice of grammar. Despite all of the fake drama in the thread there is actually some good information contributed by pretty much everyone. You shouldn't apologize to the OP. You didn't waste anyone's time and your contributions are great. What gave you the impression anyone was offended?


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## Sunstar (Jul 29, 2008)

quartz is a good rock. I would not think twice about using rose, clear, amethyst or other colour quartz. it's pretty hard and I don't think it'll disolve too easily.

I keep a peice of Bloodstone in my main tank.


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## Katalyst (Jul 29, 2007)

Sunstar said:


> quartz is a good rock. I would not think twice about using rose, clear, amethyst or other colour quartz. it's pretty hard and I don't think it'll disolve too easily.
> 
> I keep a peice of Bloodstone in my main tank.


I have tons of bloodstone and other various other stones I've collected over the years SunStar. The next time we're going to be in the same place remind me if you'd like some. I have more of it then I can actually store at this point since moving into a smaller house.


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## Katalyst (Jul 29, 2007)

overleaf said:


> Actually I was just saying that until we have more details we're all wasting our *own* time. Not sure how that turned into Kate's wasting our time, but that's a pretty self centered conclusion and one that is obviously very wrong.
> 
> As for "Everything Cory says is bad", what I intended to convey is that many of the rocks Cory outlines as "not doing well" in the aquarium are actually fantastic choices, which IIRC, is your stance too - seeing how you sell caves made from those materials.
> 
> ...


Its clear from your response that you did not fully read my comments. But felt free to get on the high horse none the less. I mentioned how good it was to have a convesation that did NOT involve flaming.

You stated you used poor grammar, to which I'll agree & I for one found offensive. Coupled with your passive agressive comments later on. Yet I'm self centered & wrong for being offended? It must be hard being right all the time.

To the Mods and OP my apologies-no further responses are necessary from me.


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## overleaf (Feb 1, 2009)

Katalyst said:


> You stated you used poor grammar, to which I'll agree & I for one found offensive. Coupled with your passive agressive comments later on. Yet I'm self centered & wrong for being offended? It must be hard being right all the time.


It's a shame that in 2009 simple text can hurt one's feelings.

It's a pity you feel that way, really, I'm a pretty awesome person that you'll likely never get to know.


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## Sunstar (Jul 29, 2008)

Katalyst said:


> I have tons of bloodstone and other various other stones I've collected over the years SunStar. The next time we're going to be in the same place remind me if you'd like some. I have more of it then I can actually store at this point since moving into a smaller house.


OH! I'd love a few bits. I have a small collections of rocks and pebbles. Many I use for...eh..do I want to admit this? medicinal or energy purposes. >.>


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## Katalyst (Jul 29, 2007)

Sunstar said:


> OH! I'd love a few bits. I have a small collections of rocks and pebbles. Many I use for...eh..do I want to admit this? medicinal or energy purposes. >.>


And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.  I have several stone's specifically for that purpose.


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## Sunstar (Jul 29, 2008)

Okay  I wasn't sure how some folk would take that. my stepfather would think I am cracked.


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## Cory (May 2, 2008)

For the record, I wasn't offended by this thread. What does offend me though (in the spirit of this thread) is people who decorate their tanks with things like lego, tacky plastic skulls and beer bottles. So let me revise my original post and say that if you stay away from the aforementioned deco you'll be alright (with me anyways lol)!


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## Katalyst (Jul 29, 2007)

Cory said:


> For the record, I wasn't offended by this thread. What does offend me though (in the spirit of this thread) is people who decorate their tanks with things like lego, tacky plastic skulls and beer bottles. So let me revise my original post and say that if you stay away from the aforementioned deco you'll be alright (with me anyways lol)!


Beer bottles? That's a first! lol I know a guy who wants to do an underwater Star War's themed tank with action figures, driftwood, mosses and a fogger.


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## Cory (May 2, 2008)

Yup, BEER BOTTLES lol. I saw a tank with two Corona bottles, a big smiling shark head and a coconut house with a palm tree all on a bed of bright aquamarine coloured gravel somewhere believe it or not. That probably isn't even the worst I've seen but the rest is likely blocked out of my memory lol.


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## pat3612 (Jan 29, 2008)

Hmmm I bet red clawed shrimp would like beer bottles as caves. lol


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## Katalyst (Jul 29, 2007)

pat3612 said:


> Hmmm I bet red clawed shrimp would like beer bottles as caves. lol


OMG Pat just wait soon yours won't be able to fit themselves in the opening of a beer bottle! Mine are taking over pleco caves they are so big!


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## Sunstar (Jul 29, 2008)

Cory said:


> Yup, BEER BOTTLES lol. I saw a tank with two Corona bottles, a big smiling shark head and a coconut house with a palm tree all on a bed of bright aquamarine coloured gravel somewhere believe it or not. That probably isn't even the worst I've seen but the rest is likely blocked out of my memory lol.


my tank rescues and tihngs usually come decorated in that manner.... I got real interesting junk from those


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