# HELP! Nitrate Problem and CRS slowly dying...



## manmadecorals

How often can I do water changes without harming my shrimps? My No3 was at 40PPM yesterday before i did a water change...what doesn't make sense is that i did a water change 2 days before that. Everything time i do about 10% WC. I've also added some frogbits maybe 5 days ago.What else can be done to lower the No3 tremendously and FAST!


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## splur

Throw in a lot of frogbit or duckweed (preferably frogbit).

I've had my nitrate at zero since I did that.


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## getochkn

Ya my tanks are mostly at 0 now for nitrates, too much frogbit and it starts to die because its not getting enough nutrients. Should have asked when you came by Manhtu, I have tonnes of the stuff. I feed it to my turtles as it takes over all my tanks. You need something though in there to help. Also, cut down on feeding for a while, the shrimp will be fine and it will help lower the bioload. I would also try cleaning out your filter good. Could be lots of debris in there that is still breaking down causing ammonia->nitrite->nitrates. With shrimp, getting to 40ppm would take forever as they have such a small bioload.

How much do you feed? I feed 5 tanks of shrimp, well over 300 shrimp 1.5-2 Omega Brand Algae/Spirulina wafers every other day. It only takes 1/3 - 1/2 a wafer and even then I'm probably over feeding a bit but the snails take care of any extras by morning. Lots of moss, plants, throw some plants in there if you have them, even just floating with the roots floating for now to help suck some up. I wouldn't plant any plants right now or disturb your substrate, you'll get some spikes.


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## manmadecorals

getochkn said:


> Ya my tanks are mostly at 0 now for nitrates, too much frogbit and it starts to die because its not getting enough nutrients. Should have asked when you came by Manhtu, I have tonnes of the stuff. I feed it to my turtles as it takes over all my tanks. You need something though in there to help. Also, cut down on feeding for a while, the shrimp will be fine and it will help lower the bioload. I would also try cleaning out your filter good. Could be lots of debris in there that is still breaking down causing ammonia->nitrite->nitrates. With shrimp, getting to 40ppm would take forever as they have such a small bioload.
> 
> How much do you feed? I feed 5 tanks of shrimp, well over 300 shrimp 1.5-2 Omega Brand Algae/Spirulina wafers every other day. It only takes 1/3 - 1/2 a wafer and even then I'm probably over feeding a bit but the snails take care of any extras by morning. Lots of moss, plants, throw some plants in there if you have them, even just floating with the roots floating for now to help suck some up. I wouldn't plant any plants right now or disturb your substrate, you'll get some spikes.


I feed them once every 2 days with a 1mm to 1.5mm portion of barley pellet for Approx 30 CRS.

I have lots of HC, about a 3x3 of Mini Pelia, 2 Blyxa Japonica, the frogbits you had added in the bag of CRS and lots of Dwarf Hairgrass.

I haven't cleaned my intake filter...ever...so that's a good point and i'll get onto that as soon as i get home.

Should I change the sponge in my intake as well?


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## getochkn

At least give the sponges all a good cleaning. I don't clean mine much but they do need a good cleaning now and again. Debris stuck in there like dead plant parts, etc can take a long time to break down and continue to keep feeding the cycle for weeks even when there doesn't seem to be a source. That's what I would do and see if that helps.


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## manmadecorals

Noted and will keep you posted once I've done all of the above...THANKS!


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## getochkn

It's worth a shot, I can't think of any other sources if you don't feed much, have lots of plants, could just the filters clogged with plant debris and crap that is feeding your cycle. a part of a barely pellet and some shrimp poop shouldn't be able to get you up to 40ppm. Do you dose your plants with any ferts?


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## manmadecorals

I use to use PPS-Pro, the Seachem flourish comprehensive plant care but i have stopped dosing about about a few days ago when i noticed my nitrate lvls between 40PPM and 80PPM. I have DIY C02 injected into the tank...i dunno the bubble count but the drop checker has a nice lime green color in it.


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## getochkn

PPS-Pro contains KNO3, potassium nitrate. I'm wondering if that is adding to it.


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## Darkblade48

getochkn said:


> PPS-Pro contains KNO3, potassium nitrate. I'm wondering if that is adding to it.


PPS-Pro will be adding nitrate to the water column, but nowhere near the levels that manhtu is measuring. PPS-Pro is meant to add just enough nitrates for the plants to use; definitely nowhere near the 40-80 ppm.

Even EI dosing will not add that much nitrate to the water column.

I would double check filter media/padding, make sure there isn't some decaying organic matter somewhere, etc. It could even be as simple as misusing the test kit...


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## Jaysan

Darkblade48 said:


> PPS-Pro will be adding nitrate to the water column, but nowhere near the levels that manhtu is measuring. PPS-Pro is meant to add just enough nitrates for the plants to use; definitely nowhere near the 40-80 ppm.
> 
> Even EI dosing will not add that much nitrate to the water column.
> 
> I would double check filter media/padding, make sure there isn't some decaying organic matter somewhere, etc. It could even be as simple as misusing the test kit...


What if the added amount was not used up? 
i.e., not enough plants to absorb the nitrates?


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## Symplicity

There are safe nitrate remover products... From benebachi I believe I'm sure there are other products out there


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## coldmantis

I had the same problem as you once, constant high nitrates, lots of huge water changes. clean the filter many times and nitrate is still above 100ppm. tried basically everything, then I bought new light bulbs, plants grew faster and nitrate dropped to like 20ppm. This wasn't a shrimp tank though and I dosed pps pro for many months, then stopped adding Kno3 to the solution but it was still high. try changing your bulbs. As a side note I had a 20g L with over 30-40 crs/cbs and my nitrates was also around the 40ppm. the top of the tank was completely covered with duckweed and I added over 300 fast growing stem plants nothing helped. except dumping a bag of barley pellets in the filter which dropped the nitrates from 40ppm to <5ppm in about 2 days. I wish I knew it was the bulbs but the shrimps eventually died out and I gave up on crs/cbs


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## FlyingHellFish

^ Hopefully you start again with the Crystal Back Shrimp


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## manmadecorals

I had tried the bag of barley, left it for one night and the water became extremely dark and murky. Next morning I found 2 CBS SS grade... dead  I immediately did a 25% water change and removed the barley.
I went home last night and cleaned my filter intake, rinsed the sponge in aquarium water and added 5 more frogbits that I got from Jaysan. I did a quick nitrate test with my API freshwater master test kit. 10 drops of the nitrate bottle 1, shake it lightly, Shake Nitrate test bottle 2 for 30 seconds. Add 10 drops. And shake for 1min. Still at 40ppm when I just did a 5% water change. 
My lighting is 1 CFL bulb at 15W and 2 LED light at 1.8W in my 6gal fluval edge.


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## manmadecorals

Symplicity said:


> There are safe nitrate remover products... From benebachi I believe I'm sure there are other products out there


Do you know what it is called?


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## splur

coldmantis said:


> I had the same problem as you once, constant high nitrates, lots of huge water changes. clean the filter many times and nitrate is still above 100ppm. tried basically everything, then I bought new light bulbs, plants grew faster and nitrate dropped to like 20ppm. This wasn't a shrimp tank though and I dosed pps pro for many months, then stopped adding Kno3 to the solution but it was still high. try changing your bulbs. As a side note I had a 20g L with over 30-40 crs/cbs and my nitrates was also around the 40ppm. the top of the tank was completely covered with duckweed and I added over 300 fast growing stem plants nothing helped. except dumping a bag of barley pellets in the filter which dropped the nitrates from 40ppm to <5ppm in about 2 days. I wish I knew it was the bulbs but the shrimps eventually died out and I gave up on crs/cbs


I never thought of it that way actually, but that could explain some of our lower nitrate levels. I've got dual T5NOs, before that nitrates were higher.


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## getochkn

Can you do a nitrate test on some tap water or ro water or whatever you're using in your tank? If it's tap water, it could be high in nitrate to start with and you're getting spring fertilizer runoff maybe, or your test could be bad, how old is it? Or do you have another tank you can test?


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## Symplicity

lol speaking of nitrate problems i just tested and mine was like 50! I quickly cleaned out my filter and had like a spit out of debree! tank is all cloudy with filter debree!! fml!

siphoned out as much crap as possible....


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## manmadecorals

i just came home and saw my last berried CRS dead...looked like it was in the process of molting and it just died...i'm trying to rescue the eggs atm. I'm going to do a nitrate test on my conditioned water and see what shows up. I also turned off the CFL light and left the LED on. 

I'll keep you guys updated.


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## manmadecorals

*Api nitrate test 05/05/12*

the first test is my conditioned tap water, the second one is the test i did yesterday, and the last one (complete right) is the test i just did from my tank.


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## manmadecorals

I just found the Benibachi Nitrate Remover...It's $35 at AI... :S

http://www.aquainspiration.com/prod...ME=BENIBACHI&PSIZE=NR100ML&PTYPE=Shrimp Stuff


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## Symplicity

Hey man really sorry to hear about your CRS. 

I am starting to use RO water with a splash of treated tap to boost gh and kh.

Do you use a canister filter? I cleaned mine out today cuz my nitrates where over 40! I hope my nitrates go down doing a 20% water change as we speak. So much debre shot into the tank. Fml

Tbh shrimp don't die that fast in high nitrate... Check ammonia.... Make sure you have alot of biomedia in your cannister


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## Symplicity

I really hope you feed at min every 3 days...once a week works well too. And small portions.

I've been feeding every day with bioplus and I think thy cause my huge nitrate spike


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## splur

manhtu said:


> the first test is my conditioned tap water, the second one is the test i did yesterday, and the last one (complete right) is the test i just did from my tank.


Er, the middle one is a second test of your conditioned tap water or of the tank? That's insane for tap water, but definitely possible. I'd switch purely to remineralized RO water if that is your tap water nitrate reading.



Symplicity said:


> I really hope you feed at min every 3 days...once a week works well too. And small portions.
> 
> I've been feeding every day with bioplus and I think thy cause my huge nitrate spike


I feed bioplus everyday, no nitrate spikes. I only feed 1/6 scoop though, maybe you feed more?


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## manmadecorals

Sorry, the second tube is the test I did yesterday on my aquarium.


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## Symplicity

I did a full flat scoop lolZ gonna cut back to 1:6th scoop everyday also


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## splur

manhtu said:


> Sorry, the second tube is the test I did yesterday on my aquarium.


Can you take a picture of your setup? I'm having a hard time imagining what's contributing to the nitrate in your tank if your tank is heavily planted and you're only feeding once every 2 days. Not to mention you're feeding them barley pellets which is suppose to take up nitrate, not release it.

I feel like you're dosing too much with not good enough lights, resulting in very little of the nitrate being used by your plants. I've got dual T5NO lights on my tank, I rarely change my water and my nitrates are at 0 ppm.



Symplicity said:


> I did a full flat scoop lolZ gonna cut back to 1:6th scoop everyday also


Hah, you should judge it based on how many shrimp you have. I have about 40 CRS, 30 of them juveniles? Seems to be good enough.


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## manmadecorals

I'll take a picture in the AM and post it for you guys to see


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## Symplicity

You got that pic?


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## manmadecorals

I've decided to stop pursuing my Edge as a shrimp tank...it just doesn't make any sense...right after i did a water change, i tested my nitrate and still got 40PPM. My conditioned water was at 0PPM. I can't understand what seems to cause the nitrate spike. I went to AI over the weekend and purchased the 9.5 gal Starfire tank.

That will be my shrimps new home, while the 6gal edge will be the new home to some fish.


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## manmadecorals

Here is a picture of my tank from another thread i had started. A few things have changed every since like the moss has been replaced with Riccia stone and a few more Petrified wood rocks has been added.


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## randy

manhtu said:


> I've decided to stop pursuing my Edge as a shrimp tank...it just doesn't make any sense...right after i did a water change, i tested my nitrate and still got 40PPM. My conditioned water was at 0PPM. I can't understand what seems to cause the nitrate spike. I went to AI over the weekend and purchased the 9.5 gal Starfire tank.
> 
> That will be my shrimps new home, while the 6gal edge will be the new home to some fish.


If a new tank is the solution then I'd say the end result is pretty good ;-)


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## coldmantis

if you were using leds to light your tank in your edge and dosing pps pro at the same time, that's probably what cause high nitrates since your led is not going to grow anything fast.


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## manmadecorals

coldmantis said:


> if you were using leds to light your tank in your edge and dosing pps pro at the same time, that's probably what cause high nitrates since your led is not going to grow anything fast.


I also have a 15W mini CFL bulb under that hood.


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## coldmantis

even if you did, your picture looks like it's spot lighting instead of light spreading to the entire tank, so only where it's spot lighted it will grow faster then the corners of your tank.


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## manmadecorals

that makes sense but for the sake of the picture i closed the hood completely, usually it is tilted and moved a bit forward so that the light spreads out more. Even doing so the light doesn't completely spread out throughout the tank... so that could be the reason for high nitrate?


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## getochkn

You also quit dosing the ferts correct, so after WC after WC, it should have dropped at some point and probably faster since the plants would have started using the nitrates.

I had a tank that I had to nuke and start over. All my yellows were dying in it, couldn't figure out why, things tested ok, dosed all the meds, WC after WC, nothing would help it. Finally just moved them, nuked the tank, got new substrate, restarted the filter and been going from there. Sometimes you can't always explain things and have to start over. Sucks, I lost like 6 nice dark yellow very well breeding females.


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## coldmantis

getochkn said:


> You also quit dosing the ferts correct, so after WC after WC, it should have dropped at some point and probably faster since the plants would have started using the nitrates.
> 
> I had a tank that I had to nuke and start over. All my yellows were dying in it, couldn't figure out why, things tested ok, dosed all the meds, WC after WC, nothing would help it. Finally just moved them, nuked the tank, got new substrate, restarted the filter and been going from there. Sometimes you can't always explain things and have to start over. Sucks, I lost like 6 nice dark yellow very well breeding females.


sucks to hear but can't be as bad as me, originally got yellows when they first came out from Jamesren, bought 10 initially to start my colony. They were housed in a 29g 10 yellows became over 500 yellows was going to start selling them but wanted to change the substrate to black to show off the colour more. Bought 1 bag of black blasting sand from sugarglidder 95% of my shrimps died and all snails(remember snails are hard to Kill!!) died. I think the sand was "inert" copper slag 

here's another example had over 300 cherries in a small tank decided to try dollarama's black sand 300 cherries become 30  baby guppies died too


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## manmadecorals

Did you guys cry a bit? cause i cried a shit ton


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## Symplicity

Lol my first attempt at CRS failed and really discouraged me.

I now learned alot from my mistakes and know my 3rd attempt will be much better. Though my 2nd attemp is working nicely with babies and all!

Sucks when you kill something when you try so hard.... But in the long run don't give up


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## Zebrapl3co

I've been reading your thread for a while but didn't say anything because you've had lots of help.
It's a shame if you have to use another tank. That's one looks really good. High nitrate may not be the only cause of death. If you still haven't given up yet. Try a dropping a piece of mineral rock in to the tank. Most of the time, I wouldn't bother with that. But new tank, new substrate, there might be a mineral inbalance that prevents the shrimp from molting properly. That is usually the #1 cause of death.

There is also something you want to keep in mind. Some times, a shrimp doesn't die right away from shock. But it's enough to hurt them so badly that they will eventually wittle away within the month.

As for the high nitrate, I'd stop adding fertz if you are adding fertz. Use RO water for now. It could be something bad in your tap water. Choramine tap water means there is ammonia in the tap water. Even if you treated it with Prime, it's not going to magically disappear. It's still in the water and your bacteria will still proccess them and the end result will still be nitrate. So the more water change you make, the more you will feed the bacteria and the more nitrate will be there (It's a senario where you have way too much nitrification bacteria in your tank). Hence RO maybe some thing to tie you over, until your tank mature and balance itself out.

*Never pay again for live sex! | Hot girls doing naughty stuff for free! | Chat for free!*


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## manmadecorals

Zebrapl3co said:


> I've been reading your thread for a while but didn't say anything because you've had lots of help.
> It's a shame if you have to use another tank. That's one looks really good. High nitrate may not be the only cause of death. If you still haven't given up yet. Try a dropping a piece of mineral rock in to the tank. Most of the time, I wouldn't bother with that. But new tank, new substrate, there might be a mineral inbalance that prevents the shrimp from molting properly. That is usually the #1 cause of death.
> 
> There is also something you want to keep in mind. Some times, a shrimp doesn't die right away from shock. But it's enough to hurt them so badly that they will eventually wittle away within the month.
> 
> As for the high nitrate, I'd stop adding fertz if you are adding fertz. Use RO water for now. It could be something bad in your tap water. Choramine tap water means there is ammonia in the tap water. Even if you treated it with Prime, it's not going to magically disappear. It's still in the water and your bacteria will still proccess them and the end result will still be nitrate. So the more water change you make, the more you will feed the bacteria and the more nitrate will be there (It's a senario where you have way too much nitrification bacteria in your tank). Hence RO maybe some thing to tie you over, until your tank mature and balance itself out.


it really is discouraging and I'm becoming more and more hopeless. I've done pretty much everything everyone has suggested to lower my nitrate (except adding more light which i'll be doing tonight).

I woke up this morning and found a small CRS dead without it's shell and my only cherry dead by it's side...I seem to be losing on avg 2 shrimps a week and no matter what i do i can't seem to lower the nitrate lvl.

Your post has brought me a bit of hope, so i'll try the mineral rocks as my last attempt to rescue this tank and see how that works out. In the end, I'd really like to salvage this tank and keep it as my shrimp tank but a part of me keeps dying whenever i find a dead shrimp.


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## splur

So you've actually completely stopped dosing, decreased your feeding even more, and added floating plants? And there's still high nitrate levels? That's strange.


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## Jaysan

splur said:


> So you've actually completely stopped dosing, decreased your feeding even more, and added floating plants? And there's still high nitrate levels? That's strange.


It might really be the issue with his light.
From the picture he posted, it does look like spot lighting instead of spread lighting. 
Maybe his plants are not getting enough light to use up the nitrates?


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## manmadecorals

splur said:


> So you've actually completely stopped dosing, decreased your feeding even more, and added floating plants? And there's still high nitrate levels? That's strange.


I have indeed, no dosing it's been about 3 weeks since i stopped dosing, i now feed them 1mm piece of barley every 3 days and i have 7 frogbits floating on the little open surface that i have with my Edge


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## manmadecorals

manhtu said:


> I have indeed, no dosing it's been about 3 weeks since i stopped dosing, i now feed them 1mm piece of barley every 3 days and i have 7 frogbits floating on the little open surface that i have with my Edge


I also cleaned my intake filter thoroughly, i do about 2 water change a week of about 10% and i leave the lights on for about 8 hours a day.


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## splur

Jaysan said:


> It might really be the issue with his light.
> From the picture he posted, it does look like spot lighting instead of spread lighting.
> Maybe his plants are not getting enough light to use up the nitrates?


Yeah, I agree. I was just making the major sources were gone and that there was enough plants. My goldfish tank (which I loath) with no plants has less nitrate than this tank lol.


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## manmadecorals

Mineral Rock added last night as per suggested and completely removed the hood off the tank for more lighting. will do a WC tonight and see how my nitrate lvl is the following day


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## Symplicity

I hope you clean your filters with tank water and not tap water...


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## manmadecorals

Tank water was siphoned into a bucket and everything was cleaned in the bucket as per instructed.


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## Zebrapl3co

Good luck. I hope that works.

*Never pay again for live sex! | Hot girls doing naughty stuff for free! | Chat for free!*


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## Jaysan

manhtu said:


> Mineral Rock added last night as per suggested and completely removed the hood off the tank for more lighting. will do a WC tonight and see how my nitrate lvl is the following day


Do the drip method water change so you dont shock the shrimps too much.


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## manmadecorals

Here is an update pic of my shrimp tank...ever since i completely took off the hood of the Edge and added the mineral rocks, the shrimps have been a lot more active. Swimming around and moving around more...i hope this is a good sign. I haven't checked for nitrate lvl yet but i'll keep you guys updated as soon as i do. Thanks again for everyone help and support, you guys have been awesome!


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## splur

I know those iwagumi landscapes usually have elevated substrate layers and I'm not sure how they manage it or if it's even a problem, but that looks like a huge substrate layer in the back... could that not cause some anaerobic bacteria to put out some nasty stuff?


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## manmadecorals

It's mostly rocks covered by some substrate


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## manmadecorals

So i did a nitrate test last night and it was 40PPM so i did a water change and tested for nitrate again. still 40PPM...wtf...screw this I'm moving on to my new 10Gal tank.


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## randy

I wish I had a quick way to reduce nitrate, I find that once you have nitrate issue, water change doesn't reduce it as much as pure calculation. For example, if you have 40ppm, you do a 50% WC, it doesn't bring it down to 20ppm, it will be somewhere in between, or even closer to 40ppm than 20ppm. My theory is that your substrate may absorb some nitrate and while the concentration goes down in the water, your substrate releases some back. 

It takes time to resolve this issue by introducing floaters or rootless plants such as moss, and support these adequate lighting (floaters only use nitrate if they're growing, if they don't have an environment to grow and start to decay, you get the opposite effect), and change your feeding schedule. 

Also, small tanks are always harder to work with to keep stable water parameters. Shrimps can do okay in smaller tanks but never the same as a bigger tanks. I have two shrimp tanks less than 10G and all my future tanks will be at least 15G. As the number of my tanks grows, I won't have the energy to find tune/maintain many smaller tanks. 

I'm just sharing my random thoughts and some guess work on this topic since I also have to deal with this. Don't trust everything you read on the internet


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## dp12345

try putting lucky bamboo inside the aquarium this will absorb the nitrate.
dp


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## arc

> So i did a nitrate test last night and it was 40PPM so i did a water change and tested for nitrate again. still 40PPM...wtf...screw this I'm moving on to my new 10Gal tank.


Not sure if this has been brought up but if you are getting the same nitrate reading after the water change maybe something else is the problem. Could be Nitrate is already present in the tap water or the test kit you have is defected. Use the kit to test out a bottle of water(new of course), if it reads 40, its the test kit that is the problem.


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## getochkn

Are you using tap water? What are you treating it with? Prime will give a false-positive reading on most ammonia/nitrite/nitrate tests for the first day.


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## manmadecorals

really? interesting...

I'm using tap water with Prime. I have some aged water conditioned with prime so i'll do a nitrate test on it tonight see if i still get high nitrate.


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## getochkn

manhtu said:


> really? interesting...
> 
> I'm using tap water with Prime. I have some aged water conditioned with prime so i'll do a nitrate test on it tonight see if i still get high nitrate.


Ya, try that and see.


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## Symplicity

Maybe you would be a good candidate to test out de-nitrate filter media for us  Was eyeballing the box and reviews. But got no more room in my canister to try it out


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## manmadecorals

i'm down...where do i find this?


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## manmadecorals

Found these:

http://www.jlaquatics.com/phpstore/store_pages/product-info.php?product_ID=as-nnr0250

http://www.jlaquatics.com/phpstore/store_pages/product-info.php?product_ID=sc-dnit1

Anyone ever used these before? Would the filter media be good for my aquaclear 20?


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## arktixan

I currently use

Kordon AmQuel + bought it off eBay recommended by Anna .

Removes - Nitrate, Nitrite, Ammonia.

& 

Kordon NovAqua +

Which is the water conditioner used with water top offs.


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## randy

Symplicity said:


> Maybe you would be a good candidate to test out de-nitrate filter media for us  Was eyeballing the box and reviews. But got no more room in my canister to try it out


Funny timing, I was also looking this up today. However, the description says you need to get your nitrate to < 20ppm before starting to use it.

Does anyone use SeaChem De-nitrate currently? Mind sharing the result? And how long does it last (I didn't find that info in the product description).


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## manmadecorals

randy said:


> Funny timing, I was also looking this up today. However, the description says you need to get your nitrate to < 20ppm before starting to use it.
> 
> Does anyone use SeaChem De-nitrate currently? Mind sharing the result? And how long does it last (I didn't find that info in the product description).


Hi Randy,

I'm just reading up on the description as well but i do not see where it states that it requires it to be < 20PPM before we can start using it.

http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/denitrate.html

Why was this not suggested to me on day 1  i might've saved 8 shrimps, which 2 were berried 

Better late then never i guess lol. Big Al's has it for $16 for the 1L


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## matti2uude

I've tried the Seachem denitrate and it helped but not for long. I was only able to use a small amount inside a sponge filter.
Has anyone tried this?
http://www.instantocean.com/Product-Catalog/Water-Care/Solutions/Natural-Nitrate-Reducer.aspx


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## getochkn

manhtu said:


> Hi Randy,
> 
> I'm just reading up on the description as well but i do not see where it states that it requires it to be < 20PPM before we can start using it.
> 
> http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/denitrate.html
> 
> Why was this not suggested to me on day 1  i might've saved 8 shrimps, which 2 were berried
> 
> Better late then never i guess lol. Big Al's has it for $16 for the 1L


" Enough should be used to remove nitrate at a rate at least as fast as the rate of formation. If very high nitrates are initially present, they should be brought down to less than 20 mg/L with water changes."

Also take note of this

"At high flow rates (greater than 100 US gallons per hour), it will function solely as an aerobic filter. At slow flow rates (less than 50 US gallons per hour), it will function as both an aerobic filter and an anaerobic denitrifying filter."

Meaning that if you use it in a fast flowing canister filter, it's not going to remove nitrates at all, only work as a surface for beneficial bacteria. I would also say get a cheap or old HOB filter, limit the flow on it if need be and run it in there. It needs a slow flow of water to starve off the oxygen to get anaerobic, and therefore de-nitrating properties, otherwise it's just expensive biomedia if your filter is too fast for it.


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## getochkn

matti2uude said:


> I've tried the Seachem denitrate and it helped but not for long. I was only able to use a small amount inside a sponge filter.
> Has anyone tried this?
> http://www.instantocean.com/Product-Catalog/Water-Care/Solutions/Natural-Nitrate-Reducer.aspx


" Naturally increases buffering capacity"

Means its going to dump a bunch of kH in the water and probably increase your pH.


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## manmadecorals

That was the other product i was inquiring about as well.

Also i found where it is stated that it must be brought down to <20PPM...it's the last line on the directions


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## manmadecorals

would still be useless to me considering i have a constant 40PPM right?


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## splur

If prime is giving you a false positive... that could explain a lot of other people's nitrate "issues"...

Although you're still getting deaths, given that it's not old age, something is up.


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## Fishfur

I have been reading this thread with interest because I am having some issues with high nitrite/nitrate in my small brood tank. There is a product that has been quite heavily promoted online that is supposed to reduce nitrates to zero.. permanently. It is a denitrifying filter, called Aquaripure. I know nothing about it other than that the premise it works on is valid.. it used anaerobic bacteria to turn nitrates into gas, mainly nitrogen.
It is not cheap, but compared to the price of, say, an Eheim filter, it's not that bad either, unless maybe you need a big one. I cannot say if they work, I have never used one, but I have read their site and it sure sounds interesting. www.aquaripure.com, if you'd like to look at it.


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## manmadecorals

Quick update: I did a nitrate test yesterday and it still remains at 40ppm. Ever since i have added the mineral rock i haven't seen any death and my shrimps are swimming more freely. I'm going to be doing another water change today and hope for the best.


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## Jaysan

Your issue with nitrates might not be the whole problem.
I tested this out with a few CRS in my 9.5 starfire tank.
My nitrates in that tank are consistently around 20-40ppm and the CRS in that tank have actually grown up faster than my shrimp tank. lol


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## getochkn

I haven't tested nitrates in 4-5 months, last was 5ppm in my CRS. Maybe I should test again, see what I'm at just out of curiosity. Doesn't make sense why it's that high and not going down, I can't think of anything that should be leeching that much to produce that much. Did you test tap water or other tanks to make sure the kit is good?


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## manmadecorals

Yes i did. I did both test at the same time. Aged tap water is at 0PPM while Tank water is at 40PPM as of yesterday.

I seem to keep losing some shrimps as well...i counted 21 yesterday but i know for a fact that i should have more. I know some could be hiding but should some of my shrimps die would it not contribute to the constant high nitrate?


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## solarz

Fishfur said:


> I have been reading this thread with interest because I am having some issues with high nitrite/nitrate in my small brood tank. There is a product that has been quite heavily promoted online that is supposed to reduce nitrates to zero.. permanently. It is a denitrifying filter, called Aquaripure. I know nothing about it other than that the premise it works on is valid.. it used anaerobic bacteria to turn nitrates into gas, mainly nitrogen.
> It is not cheap, but compared to the price of, say, an Eheim filter, it's not that bad either, unless maybe you need a big one. I cannot say if they work, I have never used one, but I have read their site and it sure sounds interesting. www.aquaripure.com, if you'd like to look at it.


Aquaripure relies on denitrifying bacteria, which you need to feed with vodka, IIRC.

Personally, I do not like relying on these kinds of devices to reduce nitrates. What if power goes out for a few hours and all the denitrifying bacteria die?

I prefer reducing feeding/bioload and increasing plant mass to achieve a balance.


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## manmadecorals

it's been over a week and no death, I haven't done a nitrate test yet but it seems to be doing better as the shrimps are looking more active.


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## randy

manhtu said:


> it's been over a week and no death, I haven't done a nitrate test yet but it seems to be doing better as the shrimps are looking more active.


Can you summarize what you have done and what you think worked and what not?


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## manmadecorals

Here are some of the steps I've taken:

1) Removed the hood from the Fluval Edge to expose more light throughout the tank
2) Changed from 8hours of lighting to 10hours. (Was originally 12hours but noticed a lot of Hair Algae growth so i had it reduced to 8hrs)
3) Added a mineral rock
4) Added Frogbits
5) Thoroughly clean my filter
6) Do small water changes twice a week (pretty easy on a 6 gal tank)
7) Stop dosing any type of ferts
8) Changed feeding period from every 2 days to every 3 days.

I have noticed a tremendous difference ever since i added the mineral rock...Before doing so i found 2 dead shrimps without shells and since then they have been more active regardless of the high nitrate lvl i have in my tank.

I have noticed a drop in my nitrate since i first started...it was originally closer to 80PPM and now it's closer to 30-40PPM last time i checked. I will do another check tonight.


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## manmadecorals

In the meantime, here are some pics i took yesterday with my new Samsung Galaxy Note phone.


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## randy

Looking good and thanks for the summary. I recently added mineral rocks in my shrimp tanks also an airstone and have seen some positive change in shrimp behaviour too.


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## manmadecorals

Did a nitrate test yesterday...still at 40ppm


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## randy

Forgot to ask, did you start using seachem denitrate?


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## manmadecorals

No i haven't...my nitrate is too high for me to use it...it says it has to be 20ppm before i can use it.


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## randy

Hmm.. I'm wondering why they say that. Does 20+ppm prevent the denitrifying bacteria to grow like high NH3 to AOB? I asked because I also got some and I'll try it and see how it works.


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## Jaysan

manhtu said:


> No i haven't...my nitrate is too high for me to use it...it says it has to be 20ppm before i can use it.


I wonder if your soil is still seeping ammonia.
Did you ever try taking some soil out of the tank, put it in a cup, add some conditioned tap water, leave it for a day and checking ammonia levels?


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## manmadecorals

Jaysan said:


> I wonder if your soil is still seeping ammonia.
> Did you ever try taking some soil out of the tank, put it in a cup, add some conditioned tap water, leave it for a day and checking ammonia levels?


Interesting idea...imma do that tonight...


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## getochkn

Jaysan said:


> I wonder if your soil is still seeping ammonia.
> Did you ever try taking some soil out of the tank, put it in a cup, add some conditioned tap water, leave it for a day and checking ammonia levels?


Taken from the plantedtank



> Not to thread jack, but after some testing on my own tanks I still don't believe you can fully cycle a tank with AS in 2 weeks. The Ammonia might be zero which I achieved by cranking the heat up. However, the soil is still leaching. There might be enough BB to convert the Ammonia so the test is showing zero but if you test your Nitrates it will be high because of all the Ammonia still being converted. A fully cycled tank is no longer leaching Ammonia and and the Nitrate creep will be very slow the only Ammonia source will be from the waste.
> 
> Yesterday I tested my tank and Ammonia is showing zero. The Nitrates was in the 20-40ppm range. Did a 100% water change with pure RO. 100% as in drained the canister so there is no water in the system. Today the Ammonia is still testing zero but the Nitrate went back up to 10ppm-20ppm. Where did the Nitrate come from? The only source being Ammonia being turned into Nitrite and then Nitrate.


Could be. I haven't went back 10 pages, but how old is the soil in the tank again and what soil is it?


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## manmadecorals

the soil i put in the tank is Netlea plant soil that i had purchased from Greg. It was a brand new bag. it's been in the tank since february...i've also mixed with it some fluval shrimp substrate from Jaysan


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## getochkn

manhtu said:


> the soil i put in the tank is Netlea plant soil that i had purchased from Greg. It was a brand new bag. it's been in the tank since february...i've also mixed with it some fluval shrimp substrate from Jaysan


I know my Netlea plant took at least 2+ months to fully finish leeching. Maybe do this, take out a scoop of soil from the tank, rinse it a bit and then put it in a cup with non-tank water for a day or so then test for ammonia and nitrites and nitrates and see if it gives any reading. As from the post I copied and pasted, their filter was cycled so well that it ate the leeching ammonia right away so it wasn't detectable but was still leeching and the end result of that is nitrates.


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## manmadecorals

*May 31 2012*

Still no death as of date, but when comparing my CRS to Jaysan CRS, his shrimps are A LOT more active then mine. I will be doing a nitrate test later tonight after a water change.

Here is one of my prettiest CRS.


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## Jaysan

manhtu said:


> Still no death as of date, but when comparing my CRS to Jaysan CRS, his shrimps are A LOT more active then mine. I will be doing a nitrate test later tonight after a water change.
> 
> Here is one of my prettiest CRS.


thats a nice crs


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## manmadecorals

Thanks! i can spend hours just looking at it...if only i can get the nice ones to reproduce...that would be amazing!!


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## arktixan

manhtu said:


> Thanks! i can spend hours just looking at it...if only i can get the nice ones to reproduce...that would be amazing!!


I agree, It's so much fun to stare at a tank for hours.

I just got myself a Berried CRS. I hope this is a sign of good, and I cannot wait until I have Hundreds... I think I'd be glued 24/7 LOL!


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## Symplicity

arktixan said:


> I agree, It's so much fun to stare at a tank for hours.
> 
> I just got myself a Berried CRS. I hope this is a sign of good, and I cannot wait until I have Hundreds... I think I'd be glued 24/7 LOL!


LOL I thought I was the only one who finds it fun to stare at their tank for long periods of time


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