# Fin nipping.. who can it be?



## ronthereptile (Feb 6, 2010)

Hey Guys,
I have 4 large angels in my 90 gal fw tank. There are a few Gouramis with them, as well as a 2" red tail shark, some silver dollars, a 4" pictus cat, and a dojo. I used to have some tiger barbs which I have since removed. The angels are new, less than a week. When I put them in, their fins were perfect. Within a couple days, they were nipped pretty good. I hate seeing nipped fins. I am now treating with Melafix. It is hard to tell if there has been any more nipping since the barbs have been removed. Do you think any of the remaining fish could still be nipping? 
Thanks in advance,
Ron


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## gucci17 (Oct 11, 2007)

ron, I don't think you need to treat them with melafix.

The suspect the fin nipping could be coming from the red tailed shark. I've had one that picked on a beta before. 

I think a little salt should be enough to help things heal.


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## ronthereptile (Feb 6, 2010)

Hey gucci,
I have been watching the RT shark very closely for a while, and he seems to keep to himself. I have never seen him look at another fish. He seems content picking at the plants all day.... if I even see him. 
I agree, maybe Melafix is over doing a bit, but they are new to the tank and I don't mind treating the whole tank. It seemed to help my large fancy goldfish grow their fins back quick. I will put in some salt as well. I just want to make sure no infection sets in. The water is pristine, but why take chances? 
Thanks


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## Aquatic Designs (Apr 2, 2006)

Salt will kill plants.


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## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

Take that red tailed shark out. It's a high risk. It's what's nipping your fins guaranteed. 

It will become evil at about 4.5" regardless of what you do it's in their nature. 
High levels of keratin work best for fin regrowth. If you can find some salmon skin at the supermarket, just chop it into really small pieces (the scale and the little bit of skin and flesh it attatches to) and feed that to your fish. Almost instant regrowth.


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## Marowana (Jul 28, 2009)

Aquatic Designs said:


> Salt will kill plants.


all plants? are there any plants that are more tolerante? i add salt from time to time when there are injuries, and i dont want to keep buying plants for refugium.



AquariAM said:


> Take that red tailed shark out. It's a high risk. It's what's nipping your fins guaranteed.
> 
> It will become evil at about 4.5" regardless of what you do it's in their nature.
> High levels of keratin work best for fin regrowth. If you can find some salmon skin at the supermarket, just chop it into really small pieces (the scale and the little bit of skin and flesh it attatches to) and feed that to your fish. Almost instant regrowth.


isnt fatty foods such as salmon a risk to throw into an aquarium?


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## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

Marowana said:


> all plants? are there any plants that are more tolerante? i add salt from time to time when there are injuries, and i dont want to keep buying plants for refugium.
> 
> isnt fatty foods such as salmon a risk to throw into an aquarium?


The skin isn't fatty It's keratin.
Do you use bloodworms? That's like 60% fat.


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## ronthereptile (Feb 6, 2010)

> Originally Posted by AquariAM
> Take that red tailed shark out. It's a high risk. It's what's nipping your fins guaranteed.


Thanks AquariAm,
As I said, I have been watching him closely and he is the shyest fish in the tank. I have also done some research on them, and as always, each fish seems to have its own personality. I will continue to watch him and see if he behaves and plays nice with the others.


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## Merman (Nov 23, 2009)

....I would normally suspect the gouramis - especially if they are blue gouramis or pearl gouramis. I've known gouramis to take the eyes out of fish. 

I too am anal about the fins on my angelfish being entire. As long as your water is in good shape and clean you won't have any problems with them developing fungus - no need to keep dosing, etc.

If you have other tanks move some of your fin nipping suspects around until you figure it out - including your angelfish. 

I used to return fish to shops/sell them/give them away because I suspected them of nipping the fins on my angelfish......then it began to dawn on me that when you keep several angels together they themselves are the culprits. Even baby angelfish in grow-out tanks are constantly nipping at each others dorsals.

Those angelfish you see with the nice really long perfect fins are usually kept in 'tall' tanks and there is only one or a pair(believe it or not it really does make a difference - angelfish fins grow more vertically in taller aquariums - genetics allowing). 

I know this can be a real pain in the butt re. combining fish but if you really like beautiful angelfish with good fins it's definitely worth it....

I keep my best angelfish in 30 gallon hexagons.


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## gucci17 (Oct 11, 2007)

I'd try to watch the tank with their lights out and a dim light on for you to see. That may help you catch the culprit. I've never kept gouramis so I have little knowledge of their characteristics and tendancies.

As for salt and plants. Yes it can kill plants but not all. Certain plants have higher tolerances than others. Such as java ferns and anubas. They have survived in my rift lake tanks for over two years until I tore them down recently. Mind you, growth was very slow paced which was possibly due to other factors as well.


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## ronthereptile (Feb 6, 2010)

Funny you say that Merman, thats exactly the type I have! Blue, pearl and moonlight gouramis to be exact. They seem to steer clear of them. I have not seen the angels go after each other yet.

Gucci- I have been watching with the lights out, and I have yet to see a single fish touch them since I removed the barbs. Today, upon closer inspection, it seems as if there is some healing at the tips of the fins starting. Maybe the barbs were it. I will keep checking every day to see if there is more healing.
Thanks guys


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## Marowana (Jul 28, 2009)

AquariAM said:


> The skin isn't fatty It's keratin.
> Do you use bloodworms? That's like 60% fat.[/QUOTE
> 
> bloodworms are about 10% fat


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## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

Merman said:


> ....I would normally suspect the gouramis - especially if they are blue gouramis or pearl gouramis. I've known gouramis to take the eyes out of fish.
> 
> I too am anal about the fins on my angelfish being entire. As long as your water is in good shape and clean you won't have any problems with them developing fungus - no need to keep dosing, etc.
> 
> ...


Blue and gold (trichogaster trichopterus) I can see being that way. Trichogaster leeri though I honestly have to say, having kept pairs of pearls with pairs of angels, and having simultaneous spawns at opposite ends of the tank, that if water chemistry is good and there is no fighting for territory the gouramis would be my last choice for the culprit.

Gouramis DO get angry easily and they do have a temper-- but you have to set them off. Three spots lose it randomly but pearls I have never known to just snap with no provocation, and I've had about eight over the years.


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## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

Marowana said:


> AquariAM said:
> 
> 
> > The skin isn't fatty It's keratin.
> ...


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## gucci17 (Oct 11, 2007)

can't you just grind up fish bones then?


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## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

gucci17 said:


> can't you just grind up fish bones then?


If you want calcium yes, but not keratin.


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## gucci17 (Oct 11, 2007)

AquariAM said:


> If you want calcium yes, but not keratin.


Ah ok, interesting...thanks

I was getting it confused with nails or like rhino horns/tusks etc.


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## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

gucci17 said:


> Ah ok, interesting...thanks
> 
> I was getting it confused with nails or like rhino horns/tusks etc.


Those are all keratin too. Same stuff.


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## ronthereptile (Feb 6, 2010)

Well it looks like the barbs weren't the only ones. The angels continue to be attacked. The fins are getting shorter by the day! I forgot to mention, I do have a single large mono in the tank that I adopted... (yes I know they are brackish, but he has lived his whole life in FW and his colours are very vibrant). He has never shown aggression of any kind to anyone. The angels and him seem to stay and swim together. I also forgot to mention the pesky little algae eaters. Could they do this much damage? I am at a loss.  I cannot for the life of me catch a single fish in the act! I am almost ready to clear the whole tank and just keep angels. Too bad, cause I really like a community tank. Any last thoughts guys?
Thanks again


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## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

ronthereptile said:


> Well it looks like the barbs weren't the only ones. The angels continue to be attacked. The fins are getting shorter by the day! I forgot to mention, I do have a single large mono in the tank that I adopted... (yes I know they are brackish, but he has lived his whole life in FW and his colours are very vibrant). He has never shown aggression of any kind to anyone. The angels and him seem to stay and swim together. I also forgot to mention the pesky little algae eaters. Could they do this much damage? I am at a loss.  I cannot for the life of me catch a single fish in the act! I am almost ready to clear the whole tank and just keep angels. Too bad, cause I really like a community tank. Any last thoughts guys?
> Thanks again




















If you have Golden Chinese Algae eaters, probably yes. They are mean. especially as they grow larger- and eventually ignore algae. Then you just have a big mean suckermouth non algae eater.

If I'd known you had them I would have mentioned them as culprits first. I'd say they are most likely, followed by the barbs, with the mono in the distance. I can't really see the mono bothering the angels for no reason, especially if it is not stressed. If it is getting large- say the size of an adult angel or larger, you should consider starting to put it in lightly brackish water and gradually increasing as it ages. Once full grown it can live in full SW if slowly acclimated-- but I digress...

If you have gold algae eaters, take them out. If you have something like true flying fox then they are more than likely completely benign to your angels.


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