# Fish safe binding agent for powdered foods?



## Cory (May 2, 2008)

Not sure if Im looking for exactly the right thing since food preparation, fish, human or otherwise is not my specialty but what I'm looking for is something fish safe that will bind a very fine powdered blend of food I have made. Right now the powder is being used to feed small fry and the growth and colour is amazing so I was hoping to make some of it into a bit of a brick and then break it down and feed it to the larger fish. It would only need to hold it together in water for a short while since it will be consumed quickly but I don't want it to fall apart as soon as it hits the water either. 

Any suggestions?


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## pat3612 (Jan 29, 2008)

http://www.ehow.com/how_2079006_make-homemade-fish-food.html Hope this helps


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## blackninja (Dec 3, 2009)

I started with gelatin but it does not hold well at higher temperatures in the +80 range so I switched to agar which is a natural product and solidifies at room temperature and will not fall apart even at high temperatures like discus tanks.


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## Joeee (Apr 3, 2010)

blackninja said:


> I started with gelatin but it does not hold well at higher temperatures in the +80 range so I switched to agar which is a natural product and solidifies at room temperature and will not fall apart even at high temperatures like discus tanks.


Agar is from red algae I think, it also isn't fun or the greatest sight when I leave it to solidify and something that I don't want begins to grow on it.


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## bae (May 11, 2007)

I use agar to make frozen fish food containing a mix of seafood, veggies and other goodies. I blend the ingredients in a food processor (blender works even better), heat to boiling in the microwave to melt the agar and kill bacteria, stir well, then spoon it into zip-lock sandwich bags, flatten and let cool, then freeze. I can then break off pieces with my fingers and drop them in the tank, and the food stays in fresh condition in the freezer.

I use microbiological agar which is a fine dense powder. About 2 teaspoons will gel a liter or so of fish good. For other forms, read the label and guess, or aim for 1.5-2% agar by weight.


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

I'm curious where you can get (new) microbiological grade agar, and whether it is safe for human ingestion. There are a few recipes I want to try that call for agar, and I don't want to risk substituting with gelatin yet (first time, and all).

I don't want to raid the agar in my lab. Who knows what kind of dirty scoopulas have been in it


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## bae (May 11, 2007)

Darkblade48 said:


> I'm curious where you can get (new) microbiological grade agar, and whether it is safe for human ingestion. There are a few recipes I want to try that call for agar, and I don't want to risk substituting with gelatin yet (first time, and all).
> 
> I don't want to raid the agar in my lab. Who knows what kind of dirty scoopulas have been in it


You can buy food grade agar at some health food stores and oriental groceries.


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

Any places in particular that you are aware of?

Now I can make my own homemade LB plates!


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## carmenh (Dec 20, 2009)

Bulk Barn stocks it (packaged, not bulk) in their gluten-free section...


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## Cory (May 2, 2008)

So added to my powder the agar would bind the powder so I could make sheets and break it down to a larger size for bigger fish? The little guys love the stuff. It's nothing special really, just a powdered mix of a few name brand proprietary blends but it's too darn fine for anything bigger than a guppy.


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## bae (May 11, 2007)

Cory said:


> So added to my powder the agar would bind the powder so I could make sheets and break it down to a larger size for bigger fish? The little guys love the stuff. It's nothing special really, just a powdered mix of a few name brand proprietary blends but it's too darn fine for anything bigger than a guppy.


You have to dissolve the agar in hot water, mix in your fish food, then let it cool and set. Freeze for later use. It's the same principle as making jello, but a little agar goes a long way.


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## Cory (May 2, 2008)

So is what I would end up with a Jello-ish type of thing? If so that's not really what I'm aiming for. I'm wondering if I couldn't crack an egg or two into it spread it on a baking sheet and bake it on low for a while? The extra protein wouldn't hurt any and maybe it could bind the stuff at least long enough for the larger fish to find its size appealing?


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## blackninja (Dec 3, 2009)

You will end up with what is call *quiche*. But since real men don't eat quiche I have to defer your question. Will poultry eggs with the extra protein be good for fish?


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## Cory (May 2, 2008)

It couldn't hurt with the fish I keep. Nothing overly vegetarian in my tanks. That said, it wouldn't be much egg compared to the powder, I just want to know if it will bind the stuff or just make a mess and waste my magic powder (tm)  

P.S. I eat quiche and I love it (when it's good quiche). I don't know if I'm comfortable telling my friends who already think my fish hobby is crazy that I feed them home made quiche now though lol. I want to make a crumble type food ideally.


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## blackninja (Dec 3, 2009)

If you use egg as in quiche to bind your magic powder you might have a problem getting it to break apart/crumble because it is a lot denser than gel or agar. Besides I have never seen eggs used/mentioned in any commercial fish food so there might be a good reason for their omission. I think the commercial fish food use a wheat based product to bind their mixes, NLS comes to mind. I guess if you are not a breeder it hardly matters who eats the quiche. LoL.


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## bae (May 11, 2007)

Cory, agar works very well. If you'll PM me your mailing address, I'll send you a little to experiment with.

I suppose you could try egg, or egg white. Mix it with the fish food and heat gently in the microwave. I feed the loose bits from eggs poached in water to my fish and they like it, once they figure out that it's edible.

Btw, in France, quiche is working man's food, not yuppie chow. You can always call it an egg pie.


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## blackninja (Dec 3, 2009)

OUTBREAK OF SALMONELLA PARATYPHI B LINKED TO AQUARIUMS IN THE PROVINCE OF QUEBEC, 2000.

Recall expands to more than half a billion eggs
Investigation of nationwide salmonella outbreak expands to 2nd Iowa farm.

Don't mean to cause any panic.


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## Cory (May 2, 2008)

So I made some fish crackers tonight. I used egg whites and water to bind the powder and baked at 300 for 30 minutes or so. Ended up with a foul smelling but otherwise intact cracker that I broke up and fed to the larger fish. They did the usual eat and spit they do with new stuff but kept trying to eat it which was a good sign. Some of the fish took to it more quickly and ate it right away. It floats which is nice because if one fish didn't like it another would have a go at it. Definitely stunk the first floor of my house up though, I think next time I do it will be at the cottage with the windows wide open .


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## bae (May 11, 2007)

Cory said:


> So I made some fish crackers tonight. I used egg whites and water to bind the powder and baked at 300 for 30 minutes or so. Ended up with a foul smelling but otherwise intact cracker that I broke up and fed to the larger fish. They did the usual eat and spit they do with new stuff but kept trying to eat it which was a good sign. Some of the fish took to it more quickly and ate it right away. It floats which is nice because if one fish didn't like it another would have a go at it. Definitely stunk the first floor of my house up though, I think next time I do it will be at the cottage with the windows wide open .


I suspect that you've burned most of the vitamins out of it, as well as some of the protein and fats!

If you want to go with egg white, prepare the food in a shallow layer and microwave it until just cooked. Then put it in a freezer to freeze-dry. If you want to go with crackers, do as the commercial producers do and use wheat flour to bind it. Mix everything with a little flour and water and bake until dry but not browned. Try 10% flour and see if that works. You could try 'baking' it in the microwave and finish by air-drying it or drying it in fridge or freezer. Minimal cooking will reduce nutrient loss and greatly reduce odor!

Your agar isn't in the mail yet because this has been a disorganized week for me. But I'll get it to you soon.


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## blackninja (Dec 3, 2009)

Cory said:


> So I made some fish crackers tonight. I used egg whites and water to bind the powder and baked at 300 for 30 minutes or so. Ended up with a foul smelling but otherwise intact cracker that I broke up and fed to the larger fish. They did the usual eat and spit they do with new stuff but kept trying to eat it which was a good sign. Some of the fish took to it more quickly and ate it right away. It floats which is nice because if one fish didn't like it another would have a go at it. Definitely stunk the first floor of my house up though, I think next time I do it will be at the cottage with the windows wide open .


Congrats!! That was a bold move. The smell must be from your other ingredients because baked eggs don't have any serious odor unless you burn the dish. Why don't you try microwaving the stuff.


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