# discouraged by quality of local fish



## mousey (Mar 28, 2011)

Back in March I bought 6 small ( juvenile) long fin red serpa tetras from Petsmart. They did well until I had them for about 8 weeks then they started to die one after the other. Finnage had developed nicely and I was able to sex them.
I was left with 3 that did well until august when one it developed a white sheen on its body. I treated it with antifungal for a full course of treatment. It looked clean so it went back into the main tank where it promptly developed the white sheen again. Then it died rather quickly.
I was left with a male and female who did ok until this last week when the male developed swelling in the abdomen and the white sheen all over his body. I currently have him quarantined but don`t have much hope for him.

Another forum I belong to says it takes about 3 months for pet store infections to come out in any fish you buy. I am beginning to believe this.
I am quite frustrated by the quality of the fish out there! Serpas are supposed to be hardy fish.
I do cleaning every 2 weeks on my tank. It is a planted 30 gallon and I have fish over five years old in that tank. I am not exactly a novice but can still learn about different issues. The stores like to tell you it is your fish keeping technique but I don`t believe it. I think quality is poor due to overly quick inbreeding to make a fast buck.
I feel sorry for the fish- not their fault to carry so many problems.
It is not feasible to do a 3 month quarantine and to keep replacing fish constantly.
I had the same issue with neons from other stores as well as glolight tetras. If I buy a dozen of each I am usually left with 2-3 fish at the end of 3 months or so. Those fish go on to live 3-4 years.

I have friends who constantly replace fish in their tanks and seem to enjoy the turnover but that is not me. I like to keep my pets for a long period of time.-- the full life span.


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## TorontoPlantMan (Aug 16, 2013)

mousey said:


> Back in March I bought 6 small ( juvenile) long fin red serpa tetras from Petsmart. They did well until I had them for about 8 weeks then they started to die one after the other. Finnage had developed nicely and I was able to sex them.
> I was left with 3 that did well until august when one it developed a white sheen on its body. I treated it with antifungal for a full course of treatment. It looked clean so it went back into the main tank where it promptly developed the white sheen again. Then it died rather quickly.
> I was left with a male and female who did ok until this last week when the male developed swelling in the abdomen and the white sheen all over his body. I currently have him quarantined but don`t have much hope for him.
> 
> ...


Many of us have learnt the hard way to stay away from fish at PetSmart and even places like Big Al's I personally prefer to avoid. I don't have a clue of anything near Newmarket but I'd recommend Menagerie pet shop if you're ever in the downtown core. I've only ever once lost a fish that I bought from there and it was my own fault. A bit more expensive there then BA or PS but much higher quality. Take a look at the store profile & reviews section & try and find a place thats not too far from you & has good reviews, It's much easier then you think! & in the mean time, stay away from PetSmart unless you're getting dry goods.


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

Store name means less than the location. My local petsmart has some good people and the fish are usually good. Not every store of the same name is the same quality


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## darkangel66n (May 15, 2013)

I always buy more then I need as I expect loses. It does not surprise me one bit when fish die. The only time I do not do this or am surprised when they die is when I buy locally bred fish from fellow hobbyists. To expect a fish to travel from an outdoor pond in Malaysia or some other far of country or even a pond in Florida all the way to us, adjust to being caught bagged, released in a tank, bagged, travel more and be released into another tank without losses is an unreasonable expectation. Heck even fish bought at club auctions sometimes fall prey to death from these experiences and the travel times and stresses are much much less. I have had some very pleasant surprises from some stores where I have had zero losses and the big one for me is the Menagerie as mentioned. Seldom do fish I get from them not last. Neon tetras where my latest buy from them. Bought 15 six months ago and still have 15. They were locally bred as well. Sometimes I believe we expect to much from a simple animal.


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## mousey (Mar 28, 2011)

I wonder if there are any decent fish stores north of Toronto. I never go to the city. Would drive as far as Steeles ave and 404 but no further.

IS Michael's pet depot still in Richmond Hill. Does anyone know?


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## snaggle (Feb 19, 2010)

Kim’s nature in Markham always has nice fish, also the BAs in Whitby seemed to be better then the one in Newmarket. I just avoid PS, for live stock at least, on principle. There is not much up that way, there was/is a pet store in Keswick called Wet Thumb I believe they had a small but nice selection.


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

I have had good experiences with the BA in Scarborough, fish wise. Panda garra, kuhli loaches, vampire shrimp among others. I always tell the fish room folks I will not be able to get home for several hours, so they use much bigger bags and more oxygen, and I bring insulated containers.

Last time, when I got the garras, I also got one male vampire, one female Bamboo and some chili rasboras. They packed just two of the larger garras to a big bag, each shrimp had a big bag and net to hang onto, the chilis had a huge bag. All bags had loads of O2, and they kindly gave me a fish shipping box to take them home in. They filled in the empty spaces with 02 filled bags also to insulate and stop rolling around too. Hot day, lousy traffic, they were all in there close to 8 hours by the time I got home and unpacked and had them floating or dripping. They all arrived in great shape. Now, I have not had the garras for all that long, about a month I think, but they appear to be doing just fine. 

In contrast, the only things I ever got live at at any Petsmart were Mystery snails. They were also well packed and arrived in good shape, and so far, so good. I do think it depends a lot on both on the individual store and the staff they have working for them.

Locally, BA Mississauga's fish have been mostly good. Bad batch of loaches once, but they honored their guarantee, even gave me extra fish. Had one bag of snails that was badly tied leak, all snails DOA, after less than an hour, but they replaced them too. I called to explain what had happened, no argument, no hassle. AK, I got some of the nicest Otos, not one loss in the whole group after two months time, which is what I think is the break point for them survival wise. Two months, they are going to be fine short of tank disasters, or being away for over a month, as I unfortunately was this summer. Kim's, I've had nice fish from, still doing well a year later, no untoward losses at all, and they were in transit for at least 4 or 5 hours too, without the special packing either, only an insulated carrier I brought.

Shrimp, from any source, I've had some losses. But I expect to have some losses, especially if the shrimp are old enough for females to be saddled. I drip acclimate and hope for the best. I find the Bamboo and Vampires are fairly hardy overall, more so than the dwarf shrimp tend to be. But I've never had anything fancier than Painted Fires, Snowballs and some Green Babaultis, also fell victim to long absence. But that is not the fault of the livestock or the store.

I think it really depends on many factors, some of which, as darkangel says, are not in the control of the stores. Farming conditions, inbreeding, shipping/handling before they arrive in stores, have accumulative effects. A lot of farmed fish have parasites too. If you do not QT, they can show up much later. Your choice if you QT or not. 

3 months in a separate tank to avoid passing on a disease is not totally unreasonable, but I have to admit, most articles and posts I've read call for a month to six weeks, and are concerned primarily with Ich, which has a life cycle that is very temperature dependent. Other parasites I'd have to research for length of life cycle. But I had not heard of QT for 3 months until this post. But if you have valuable or hard to replace fish, QTs are the cheapest insurance you can get.


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## mousey (Mar 28, 2011)

I had a look at the Wet thumb a number of years ago and found the fish were in poor shape, dirty tanks etc. 
I guess I could take a look at it again but a friend up there will not buy from them.

Will have to take trip to Kim's and see what they have next time I am in the market for some fish. I guess I should go for some fish with longer lifespans and perhaps they have a better immune system.
My rainbow is getting upwards of 5 years or more although she is the only survivor of 6 that I started with.
I have a 4 year old upside down catfish, a 5 year + old pleco, a 3 year old plec., an anciiiient blackskirt terta and a 3year old danio.


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## bob123 (Dec 31, 2009)

I will not buy fish from Pet Smart as all their tanks are filtered through one filter system and any and all diseases circulate into all tanks exposing fish to the problems. It is worth a trip to a good fish store. I have travelled over two hundred kilometers one way to go to a good fish store or to a breeder. Don't forget you get what you pay for.


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## Kimchi24 (Mar 22, 2013)

bob123 said:


> I will not buy fish from Pet Smart as all their tanks are filtered through one filter system and any and all diseases circulate into all tanks exposing fish to the problems. It is worth a trip to a good fish store. I have travelled over two hundred kilometers one way to go to a good fish store or to a breeder. Don't forget you get what you pay for.


I hear BA Missisauga does this as well. At least thats what the manager at the BA North York has told me. maybe it was simple competition but the quality of fish ive gotten from mississauga is far worse than North York BA


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## Ryan.Wilton (Dec 12, 2012)

Any fish I buy from Big Als in North york (steeles and young) survive just fine.

As previously mentioned, it's more about location than brand name. When I worked at the Petsmart in Markham I made sure that there were no dead or dying fish in the tanks. Any sick fish went to a sick tank in the back and the whole system was generally treated.

Most other locations wouldn't put that time and attention towards their fish, but with the right staff you can still trust the store brand.


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

Most of BA Miss tanks are on one system. They have a few that are separate that they use for certain shipments at times, other times they have whatever they have in them. But I do know a few of the tanks are not connected to the main system, as I was talking to the guy cleaning one about the water and he told me that particular tank was one of the few not connected to the main water system.

So far I've been reasonably fortunate with fish from them but not all have survived. I think one issue is the sales they run. Fish may not get even a day to acclimate before being sold, and they don't get very long in any case.. it is very true, you do get what you pay for. 

If you want the best, go where the best are and pay what they ask for their stock.


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## snaggle (Feb 19, 2010)

After I recomended wet thumb in Keswik I went to go there on the weekend, it closed down, so there is no store in Keswik any more, and only the 3 that I know of in Newmarket.


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