# Water Changes WHY ?



## mrfishy (Sep 20, 2017)

What is the deal with water changes, special water, miracle water ? I have said it MANY times if the water is good enough for you to drink, cook with and to bath in then it is good ENOUGH for your tank. What is it with the extra tank that people call a sump ? Why ? Besides the aesthetics. 

I do a 20% water change twice a year. Due to evaporation I add water weekly to my tank.I pour water from my tap into a bucket at room temperature and pour it directly into the tank and add 1 cap full of Prime. I do not run a heater as my house has climate control. Heat for the winter and air conditioning for the summer. I have a hang on back skimmer that is under powered for my tank and runs 12 hours. I have an aquaclear 110 hang of back filter that runs 24 hrs. I check my salinity once a month and shoot for 1.25 1.26 . I have no idea what my alkalinity or other numbers are. I don't care what the numbers are as long as salinity is correct . Every thing that is needed is in the artificially formulated SALT !

That's it. No special water, miracle water etc. I have experimented over a few years and find the bare minimal works JUST FINE ! I do not have any more problems then those that do water changes weekly, have sumps etc. etc. etc.

So, again I ask. What is the deal with the special water, water changes, sumps etc. ?


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## loonie (Mar 29, 2008)

What kind of tank are you having, is it all fish tank, fish with corals, what type of corals or reef tank with few fish.

It will be interesting to know your kind of set up, tank size etc.


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## mrfishy (Sep 20, 2017)

*tank*

80 gallon fully stocked with live rock , fish and coral mostly soft. Monti doing well. I can not vouch for small stony as I did not have sufficient light but am now willing to try those.

I believe a skimmer is very important but have yet to test that theory. I also believe that live rock is important but again would like to test that theory over time.


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## twobytwo (Oct 25, 2014)

Think of it like a car.

Do you need winter tires? Backup sensors? Air Conditioning, Sunroof? Air Bags, seat belts? I can get a 1982 Honda Civic and drive all over the place, get to work, get my errands done... it does the job.

The things you've mentioned improve the experience and are not necessary. Is a sump necessary? NO, but it'll hide equipment and make the tank look nicer which is important (for me).

Can corals grow with simple aquarium keeping? yes.... 
Can Humans grow eating McDonalds all day? Yes
Will Humans grow better and have better health with nice fresh groceries prepared daily? Yes

I agree that you dont need to put a lot of effort into a SW tank. Of the 6 tanks I have running now (if a brute container counts as a tank) - 
One tank for my lobster has just a heater and an Aquaclear filter (with nothing in it) plus rock and sand. I put a little top off water once a week... or two... and the tank is great! My lobster loves it and i *never *change water in that tank. My other tank which I grow my corals in has UV, Carbon, GFO, Algae Reactor, Siporax, Skimmer, expensive Gyre pump, expensive light, Doser with Aquaforest Balling method I buy and mix myself... etc. i get it from a cost perspective too - more things cost more money.

There's no single way to do it, it's all about what you want to get out of the effort/money you put in. Some people want that extra fraction of coral growth, or colour, or to just know the water is just slightly cleaner for their fish.


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## loonie (Mar 29, 2008)

What twobytwo says is true and Mrfishy point of view is correct to.......then there is always...........the BUT. When someone says, to keep SW tank is expensive, my answer to them is....Its what you want to keep. In simple terms, you want a KIA or a BMW

Many years ago before I move to Canada, I had a two hundred gal tank in Singapore. At that time, skimmers and live rock was never heard of. I did use some rock which I collected from the sea, washed them and put them into the tank. I collected water from sea, that was the only water I use since salt was not commonly found and its expensive at that time. I use 10gal containers to collect water from the sea and my car was a mess with rust. Those days, the common filtering done was the wet and dry filtering system. Its all fish tank, no corals since the only lighting was T8 tubes. Fish stores also use sea water, they bring them in by small tankers at that time.

I had bat fish which grew to 12ins and emperor angel 10ins, many fish who were doing very well. I did a monthly partial sea water change about 20gals. I never check for salinity much or anything at that time since we had limited instruments. The tank was running good for a good 3years. I went on a holiday to LA for 3weeks, my brother in law took care of the tank. When I return all my fish were dead, why, how I do not know.

I had seen many setups here in Canada, some are very simple, not much of equipment, the difference is the type of corals. Bottom line is what kind of setup you want and how much you willing to spent Its good to share experiences of different people. The problem I encounter is, whenever I am away on holiday, even just for week, many times some causality do happen.

I hope more people will share their experiences........this is a learning hobby.


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## mrfishy (Sep 20, 2017)

*Thank you*

I love some of the responses and am quite surprised that I have no been attacked and told you can not .................. so and so....

When people come over and see the tank I explain to them what I do and they look at me in disbelief. They look at me with a strange stare as if it must be a lie or that I am exaggerating. They look at me puzzled and think out loud explaining they run a sump etc. etc. etc. and are not getting good results. I have mentioned this over the years and people always say it can not be done tank will crash, problems etc. etc. I encounter the same problems as those that are running with all the bells and whistles.

Thank you everyone for all the positive responses. I do agree a sump is great to hide things and a provide a clean looking tank. I do not like the idea of having to be on your knees to do any maintenance in the sump.

I do not want salt water all over the floors and try everything possible to avoid that.

As mentioned in the first post. I mainly have soft corals and a red monti that is doing well. The Monti is doing better now that I have improved my lighting. I was running a lot of light but the combination was a weak low par output. I have been running a quad T5 for a few weeks now and the difference in lighting and effect of coral is night to day.

LIGHT IS A MAJOR FACTOR FOR THRIVING CORAL AND COLOR !!!!!


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## Crayon (Apr 13, 2014)

I am not going to argue the merits of tap water vs RO or water changes vs nothing.
I am going to provide a short history of my last year.

We moved from well water to town water May 2017. We set up a new RO system before we moved and moved our tanks over about three months.

All rock is the same. Livestock same. Salt same. Only difference is water.

Three months after the move, I had an algae outbreak that was getting out of control. It was not a cycle. We had set up new systems and had moved our livestock and tanks over a three month period. Cycling had happened before livestock got moved and was minimal.

My coldwater tank suffered the worst. We had ulva growing. Hair algae that was 6” long and out of control. There were weeks you couldn’t see anything through the algae.

What we figured out is that is the town water was filthy. We were used to changing the filters on our RO once every two years on well water with a water softener on the house. In town, we need to change our filters once a month. If we don’t, we grow algae.

Even now, a year in, I can tell when the RO is not working properly because as soon as the filters get a little tired, I see leaf algae growing in the cold water tank.

If I did not filter the water, I would have fabulous tanks of green stuff that I could dry and use for garden fertilizer.

I use a large UV that has saved my livestock at least once this last year.

I use autowater changes to keep my system healthy and it exchanges 10 litres a day on a 250 gallon system. I use auto top off so that the only thing that has to be done daily is feed the fish. No gfo, no carbon, no bio balls.

After 7 years keeping my fish and corals, it works for us.


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## Greg_o (Mar 4, 2010)

This whole thread is fascinating but this needs to be requoted -



loonie said:


> Many years ago before I move to Canada, I had a two hundred gal tank in Singapore. At that time, skimmers and live rock was never heard of. I did use some rock which I collected from the sea, washed them and put them into the tank. I collected water from sea, that was the only water I use since salt was not commonly found and its expensive at that time. I use 10gal containers to collect water from the sea and my car was a mess with rust. Those days, the common filtering done was the wet and dry filtering system.


Wow that is awesome.


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## Kooka (Feb 8, 2011)

Would you be able to post some pictures of your tank? I would be curious to see your results. 

You say that the majority of corals you have are soft with the single monti cap. Do you have any corraline algae, snails or LPS in your tank? All of these would deplete your calcium and alkalinity to levels where you would need to supplement to prevent any negative effects.

I do admit though I have seen Sanjay Joshi's no water change 20 gallon softie tank and he clearly shows that it's possible but strictly with soft corals only.


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## mrfishy (Sep 20, 2017)

*Anytime*

Anyone is welcome to see my tank any time. I have to admit I have never seen anyone able to keep ahhhhhhhhhhhhh whats that called the orange thing. You have it growing , spreading. Now that I can not keep.

Just thought of the name Sun Coral . How you are able to keep that alive, thriving and growing all over I will never understand.


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## CoralConnoisseur (Mar 5, 2014)

I agree with what Kooka says about depleting Cal and alk. A couple years ago, before we took the tank down and restarted. I had been testing weekly for months, knew exactly how much I needed to dose daily with my weekly water changes. It was always the same. I decided testing was wasting money on reagents... Months went by and corals started to go down hill. When I finally decided I should test again, Cal and Alk were so messed up that a few of my other reefing friends couldn't even believe coral was still alive. The coral had grown so much that they were using significantly more elements out of the water.

I believe that a person can use biological and mechanical filtration to remove fish waste and excess food, but I have a hard time believing that without dosing and/or water changes, hard corals would thrive long term.


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## kamal (Apr 21, 2009)

Nothing is impossible as everyone has pretty much agreed. But it all depends on what you keep and what you define as success.......I use RODI water and do at least one 10% water change a month on my tank (mix reef but mainly LPS and softy). 

Why do water changes? For me it is peace of mind. I do a low amount and frequency but it works, my corals have great P.E. and are growing well with good color. Why change what isnt broken


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## mrfishy (Sep 20, 2017)

*Prime*

I use a lot of Prime. As per instructions. If I add something new, add water or any other changes i will put in one cap full of prime into the tank. I have been using reef complete for a while and add one cap full to the tank once or twice a week or 3-4 times a month as I remember. I use Fuel once or twice a week or a few times a month. Careful as too much will cause problems.

I recently started adding reef plus, iodine and strothium using 1 cap full every couple of weeks. I am not completely sure what the affect is of these 3ingridents thus far.

I ran purigen , charcol and amonia ( those little bags for hang on back filters ). I recently replaced the Hang On Back 110 for a modified version to use as a refugeim and thus far so good. I was getting too much detritus with the other filter with live rock rubble and filter inserts.

In the modified filter I am using cheato, purigen and chem-pure. I seem to be happy with the chemi- pure and seeing good results thus far.

That is ALL OF IT !


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## mrfishy (Sep 20, 2017)

*two BIG mistakes*

The 2 biggest mistakes I have made thus far.

1. Over a three month period I was buying jugs from those machines at Sobys. This is a commercial unit and not home use. If anything is going to clean the water of any impurities this will do it. After 3 months I was noticing that the corals were not looking good, not expanding. They looked better and were doing better when I was using water straight out of my tap. We do have a water softener so I am unsure if that help at all. On the other hand a water softener is one of the best investments in a home.

2. I made the mistake of listening to a store owner. That 3 elements had to be used weekly. I bought the powdered forms and after a few months it was a disaster. I tested and numbers were all over the place. I lost a beautifull 20 head bubble tip to this fiasco.

I do have a question is it just me or are Torches, Hammer Head and bubble tip corals hit and miss ? Just curious. Had the 20 head bubble tip over a year doing really well, expanding and eating well, growing. Then i started loosing heads as they melted one by one.

ACTUALLY ! THE WORST MISTAKE I EVER MADE:

Not knowing any better and having a dumb moment. The first time I added salt to the tank I ADDED THE SALT DIRECTLY into the tank. That has to be the dumbest thing I have done regarding marine systems. I watched as the salt sank into the tank. I watched as the salt hit the corals. I watched the corals shrink and die in front of my eyes.

Lesson learned. Do not add salt directly into the tank


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## mrfishy (Sep 20, 2017)

*S.p.s*

I purchased a couple of S.P.S. corals frags yesterday at $5.00 a piece as to experiment with. I should now have sufficient lighting to support S.P.S. coral.

I will update in a months time as to progress and to either confirm that water conditions are acceptable. Or i will have to concur that S.P.S. are dependent on well maintained water conditions.

I have a BAD feeling I will have 2 dead S.P.S. corals in a couple of weeks.


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## Kooka (Feb 8, 2011)

mrfishy said:


> Anyone is welcome to see my tank any time. I have to admit I have never seen anyone able to keep ahhhhhhhhhhhhh whats that called the orange thing. You have it growing , spreading. Now that I can not keep.
> 
> Just thought of the name Sun Coral . How you are able to keep that alive, thriving and growing all over I will never understand.


Look up the Gtaaquaria member Noy, he is an expert in keeping NPS (non photosynthetic corals) such as the sun corals you mentioned. His NPS tanks are truly amazing.

*Also, you mention a store owner told you to add 3 elements to your tank weekly and that caused you to lose a coral. What 3 elements were they?


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