# Refractomers



## Lilphil26 (Sep 15, 2015)

Ok guys so i thought i was buying a decent refractometer when i ordered the red sea refractometer but I'm not impressed by it at all. If i could send it back to reefsupplies i would. I calibrate it according to the instructions and within 30 mins it loses calibration. Does anyone else have this problem? Right now im wishing i bought a 10 dollar hydrometer or the Milwaukee digital refractometer.


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## blunthead (Jan 24, 2011)

if you bought it brand new it should come calibrated
u must be doing something wrong
hydrometers are terrible, i went throught 4 and they were all way off
i have refractometers now and id recommend any newb invest in one


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## Lilphil26 (Sep 15, 2015)

I thought it would have come calibrated as well. The instructions say to check with with di water so i checked it and with di water it shows way below a specific gravity of 1. I turned the screw so it was at the mark with just water. If i come back 30 mins later to try it again it can be off by as much as .005. For instance i checked it and it was at 1.025 just as i wanted. Checked it again and it was at 1.020. It fluctuates both up and down.


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## nc208082 (Jun 27, 2013)

It's a common problem with the red sea version. I've read a lot of ppl who have this issue. Also you should be using a calibration fluid and not water for a much more accurate method.

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## Lilphil26 (Sep 15, 2015)

Ok thanks. I will try some calibration Solution and see what happens.


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## Lilphil26 (Sep 15, 2015)

Ok well I have ordered some calibration fluid for my refractometer. Will post back when I have some more results. What is everyone else using to check their salinity and how often do you calibrate?


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## CamH (Jan 5, 2014)

Does anyone know often these things needs calibrating? I have the same refractometer and thanks to this post I checked it with my calibration fluid and it was off by .05! I thing my tank was at 1.025 but it's sitting at 1.02


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## Lilphil26 (Sep 15, 2015)

I talked to red sea and they said calibrate it just before you use it with 35ppt calibration fluid. I just did mine and it works well. Putting in rodi water after it was just calibrated with 35ppt solution gives me a reading below 0 on the scale. So pick a number between 1 and 2 thats where my salinity sits!


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## rburns24 (Jan 31, 2011)

CamH said:


> Does anyone know often these things needs calibrating? I have the same refractometer and thanks to this post I checked it with my calibration fluid and it was off by .05! I thing my tank was at 1.025 but it's sitting at 1.02


-
I calibrate mine when I'm mixing water for water changes and check the salinity of my tank at the
same time. It's probably not necessary to calibrate it that often, but it's always good to sure.
-


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## altcharacter (Jan 10, 2011)

Things to know about using a refractometer:
1) Always make sure there are no air bubbles in the flap. It will change the outcome
2) Always clean the refractometer after every use. The leftover water can change the outcome of the next test
3) Try doing 3 or 4 tests of the same water. You'll notice that each test will be a bit different depending on how much water is between the flaps.
4) Less water is better! Try squeezing the flap against the refractometer for a more accurate test.

Good luck!!


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## Lilphil26 (Sep 15, 2015)

Less water is better? I thought i had to cover the entire glass?


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## altcharacter (Jan 10, 2011)

You do have to cover the entire glass but you don't need to put so much that it pours out or off. A few drops will do


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## Lilphil26 (Sep 15, 2015)

Ok good stuff we are on the same page then! Thanks for the tips!


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## skim (Apr 21, 2014)

With the Red Sea refractometer I you want to use to use RO/DI water and the most important part is the water temp and meter have to be at the same temp.
preferably 78 but at least they HAVE TO BE THE SAME TEMP. So what you want to do is when you make up some top up water after RO/DI has run for a bit take a glass tube and put some in and let it sit in the same room as your meter is kept for a few hours to warm up. They are a High quality unit as they measure the total salts not just Brine. That is why you should use RO/DI instead of Solutions like Pin Point because we don't know if it is actual Seawater standard or is it just a Brine Solution.
Just a quick note if you have a large temp difference between your Tank water and room temp you will want to let the sample sit for a few minutes before taking reading.


Skim


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## iGeeve (Aug 29, 2012)

I use this one with zero issues: https://bnc.lt/4Sug/NifQagg69q

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## Lilphil26 (Sep 15, 2015)

Mines been great now that im calibrating with 35ppt calibration fluid. The red sea is easy to read which is nice.


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## twobytwo (Oct 25, 2014)

After I drop water on the glass, I usually wait 30 seconds for the sample to equalize to the temp of the refractometer. I've noticed a difference between reading it right away and waiting.

Would this be a good solution to calibrate my refractometer with?
http://www.reefsupplies.ca/online-store/Salinity-calibration-fluid-by-Pinpoint.html


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## CamH (Jan 5, 2014)

I noticed mine going out within 2 mins minute of calibrating it. Real PITA


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## Lilphil26 (Sep 15, 2015)

twobytwo said:


> After I drop water on the glass, I usually wait 30 seconds for the sample to equalize to the temp of the refractometer. I've noticed a difference between reading it right away and waiting.
> 
> Would this be a good solution to calibrate my refractometer with?
> http://www.reefsupplies.ca/online-store/Salinity-calibration-fluid-by-Pinpoint.html


Thats what i ordered yeah. There was a post earlier about making your own.


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## skim (Apr 21, 2014)

*Something I posted on a different site*

Just something I post on a different site about some experimenting I did and phone calls I made. I also will state again about using 35% solutions with the Red Sea unit, as the RS unit is designed to read Seawater not just Brine so it takes into account of all the salts in the water Cal.Mag. and so on. Most 35% solutions are NOT seawater they are just Brine.

This I post on another site.

Ok I did a few different test with my meters and thought I would post what I found. I have a Milwaukee MA887 and a Red Sea refractometer that I use for testing, I also have a Old Instant Ocean Hydrometer and glass tube hydrometer. Amazing that after all these years and the IO meter is very accurate still and the glass hydrometer is still today considered one of the most accurate meters to use but can be a pain. Anyhow I was testing with Milwaukee and was getting a reading of 1.027 and 35 psu and 36 ptt and I confirmed it with the Red Sea unit.
My room temp. is 72 to 73 and tank is 79 and went back and read about ambient temp on D&D site and Red Sea Video, and decided I would try something. I put my hand on the test area of the Milwaukee and watched the temp rise to 79 and did a retest well interesting I now I got 1.024 33 psu and 34 ppt that is quite a difference so I thought how can I try this with the Red Sea unit. What I did is watch how long roughly it took to get the temp up on the Milwaukee and then stuck the RS unit in my armpit ( make sure you have a shirt on don't want any BO juice or sweat getting onto the meter ) for about 2 min and tested bang on same as the Milwaukee. I then became confused what is the better way or accurate way of doing this, so I phoned and spoke to Jason at Milwaukee Instruments and told him of my little experiment and he told me " that doing the readings by bring the units body temp up to what the water temp is, is far more accurate and the best way to get the most accurate readings". So you may want to try this out because my tests showed quite a big difference and your 1.025 maybe a 1.022 or 1.023 with a 30 or 31 ppt.
Just something else to roll around in your head. Lol


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## FrankS (Dec 11, 2013)

fyi- just saw on Amazon.ca a Patec ATC refractometer for sale for $28.79 - pretty good price if you are looking for one. I apologize if I'm breaking a rule but generally these things are a more expensive.

http://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B00LAXXYLI?ref_=gbps_tit_s-3_7282_e33a6224&smid=A1K7RYQVZ52FF1


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## twobytwo (Oct 25, 2014)

skim said:


> What I did is watch how long roughly it took to get the temp up on the Milwaukee and then stuck the RS unit in my armpit ( make sure you have a shirt on don't want any BO juice or sweat getting onto the meter ) for about 2 min and tested bang on same as the Milwaukee. I then became confused what is the better way or accurate way of doing this, so I phoned and spoke to Jason at Milwaukee Instruments and told him of my little experiment and he told me " that doing the readings by bring the units body temp up to what the water temp is, is far more accurate and the best way to get the most accurate readings". So you may want to try this out because my tests showed quite a big difference and your 1.025 maybe a 1.022 or 1.023 with a 30 or 31 ppt.
> Just something else to roll around in your head. Lol


Hmm, interesting, Although here's my concern... By sticking a refractometer in your armpit or wherever is great for warming it up. But the body temp is average 98 degrees. So... are you saying the refractometer is more accurate when its temp is 20 degrees above tank temp, rather than using it at 7 degrees below (@ room temp)? And how do you confirm WHAT the temp of the refractometer is? If it's in my armpit, I cant tell 92 from 95 degrees... so I think it's possible to get different results even when I think I'm repeating the process the same.

That's why I just drop the sample on the glass and wait 30 seconds for them to equalize temp to each other and take a reading.

PS I just got my calibration fluid last night and had to adjust my refractometer... Going to have to make an extra salty WC this weekend. What I thought was 1.026 looks like it was closer to 1.0235.


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## skim (Apr 21, 2014)

What I did was looked about how long it took to bring the Milwaukee to water temp. and just used that, but my point is that if you go to D&D and read what they say on Refractometer and I spoke with Red Sea and Milwaukee and they all say that to get the most accurate reading you want the water and ambient temp. to be as close as possible. Ambient is the temp your Refractometer would be at. It was just something for people to take note of. I just thought it may be something for people to try and see what they come up with because it may explain why many reefers ask that question " I don't know why but my Corals just are not full or colour is not there or Polyp extension is not there. " If you look at the difference that I got which was 1.027, 1.028 and ptt of 37 and 38 at room and when I brought the temp of test area up to water temp I got 1.025, 1.026 ptt 35, 36 that is quite a difference especially if you are starting at 1.024 or 1.025 you are down to 1.022 and 1.023, but like I said just something to think about.

Skim


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## twobytwo (Oct 25, 2014)

skim said:


> What I did was looked about how long it took to bring the Milwaukee to water temp. and just used that, but my point is that if you go to D&D and read what they say on Refractometer and I spoke with Red Sea and Milwaukee and they all say that to get the most accurate reading you want the water and ambient temp. to be as close as possible. Ambient is the temp your Refractometer would be at. It was just something for people to take note of. I just thought it may be something for people to try and see what they come up with because it may explain why many reefers ask that question " I don't know why but my Corals just are not full or colour is not there or Polyp extension is not there. " If you look at the difference that I got which was 1.027, 1.028 and ptt of 37 and 38 at room and when I brought the temp of test area up to water temp I got 1.025, 1.026 ptt 35, 36 that is quite a difference especially if you are starting at 1.024 or 1.025 you are down to 1.022 and 1.023, but like I said just something to think about.
> 
> Skim


No Problem! I hope my comment didn't seem negative... I actually appreciated your input because it got me thinking about how I do things! I actually tried last night with testing right away, letting the sample sit half a minute on the glass, and using my body to warm the refractometer; and definitely got the lowest readings with warming up the device. I got confused and though it was the body temp you were testing at, but it was interesting to do it anyway and see the impact it had on the reading. 

I wish digital refractometers weren't so expensive - If it's just reading how the light passes through the sample, how does Hanna create similar devices for testing other elements of your water at a much cheaper price?


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## CamH (Jan 5, 2014)

All this has made me consider a salinity monitor like American Marine


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## twobytwo (Oct 25, 2014)

This is a great topic thats just making my brain swim... MORE THOUGHTS -

lets say your heater fails and the tank temp drops 5 degrees. the salinity would technically be the same but you would get a higher salinity reading on the refractometer. This is interesting. I wonder how many people had heater failures then tested water, and thought Salinity was impacted when it was really just the temp of the water effecting the reading.

SLIM - do you know if the Milwaukee reader does anything to warm (or cool) the sample to a certain temp, to ensure the same conditions for reading each time?

If I leave my refractometer in the case near the tank, or out near a window sill in the winter - they'll have different temps. When testing water, I can still wait for the water sample and lens itself to equalize temps together, but that point of equalization would not be the same between the refractometers that started at different temps. This is all driving me nuts, I need to stop thinking.

Would something like this work in our tanks for checking salinity?
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Wate...48&btsid=584b87e2-4dab-4b0d-a940-925b307d3c13


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## skim (Apr 21, 2014)

Oh boy, I have some even more info to twist those Brain Cells around. Even the type of light you use can affect your reading, you should use Daylight, so if you tend to use your tank and are heavy on the Blue that will affect your reading and as for the Salinity monitor I don't know if that is the way to go either, what if I have high levels of Cal. and Mag. that will affect the reading also because they are a Salt so in the end what is my Sodium level at. I guess the best way is old school using a Float Hydrometer and keeping it clean. In the end it could be all Hog Wash but the more I think about it the more I tend find out that many things can cause different readings.


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