# Goldfish problem



## destructo (Aug 12, 2009)

Hi glad to have found this site.  

A little background first..
Currently I have a 15 gal tank (its 1' high 2' wide and 1' deep)
In it I have 1 goldfish and an algae eater. 
No heater, but have a filter for a 30 gal tank and a air stone and pump

Now my problem
The goldfish tends to lay at the bottom of the tank (when the air stone is not on) and when it is, he/she is swimming with in the bubbles (could this be from lack of air? or being sick?)

Thanks in advance


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## shanexu (Jul 3, 2009)

if i'm not mistaken if they are in a lack of oxygen state they tend to stay near the surface gulping for air. try to keep your airstone on 24/7 though.


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## bluekrissyspikes (Apr 16, 2009)

usually laying on the bottom means they aren't feeling good. if having the airstone on makes him feel better leave it on. how often do you change his water? do you clean the gravel often? what is your maintenance routine? does he have any sores, spots or frayed/torn fins? does he have decore? other things to entertainment other than the airstone? what size is he? how big is the algea eater? has he just started acting like that recently?
lots of questions, sorry, but this might help us know if there is something else wrong or what might be going on


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## destructo (Aug 12, 2009)

bluekrissyspikes said:


> usually laying on the bottom means they aren't feeling good. if having the airstone on makes him feel better leave it on. how often do you change his water? do you clean the gravel often? what is your maintenance routine? does he have any sores, spots or frayed/torn fins? does he have decore? other things to entertainment other than the airstone? what size is he? how big is the algea eater? has he just started acting like that recently?
> lots of questions, sorry, but this might help us know if there is something else wrong or what might be going on


I clean the gravel once a week, about 10% water change each time. use the conditioner and cycle each time.

He has one or 2 scales missing on both sides, and seems to dart around alot and is not really eatting that much.

The tank has a bunch of plastic plants and a small cave he can go into and hide (which he does here and there)

The goldfish and algae eater are still very small about 1.5 inches

Here is a pic of the tank and fish


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## bluekrissyspikes (Apr 16, 2009)

you are using cycle, so i'm guessing you did not cycle the tank before putting him in there, right? in that case you can increase your water changes. if the tank is still a new set up it will probably have high levels of amonia that need to be removed. change about one quarter or half the water every few days until your tank has had time to cycle completely. this will not keep the tank from cycling. both the darting and the hanging out at the bottom are signs of being uncomfortable. you don't need to use cycle. it doesn't actually do anything, dispite what it claims on the bottle. the bacteria that used to be in the bottle has long since died. i'm not sure about the missing scales. was he like that when you got him? if it were me, i'd add some salt to the water to help him build up a slime coat so that can heal. it will also help protect him a little if the water chemistry is off due to cycling. 
if you are having trouble getting him to eat you can try boiled and skinned peas, or blood worms. the fish is really cute. i like his big eyes. i hope he starts to feel better soon.


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## destructo (Aug 12, 2009)

bluekrissyspikes said:


> you are using cycle, so i'm guessing you did not cycle the tank before putting him in there, right? in that case you can increase your water changes. if the tank is still a new set up it will probably have high levels of amonia that need to be removed. change about one quarter or half the water every few days until your tank has had time to cycle completely. this will not keep the tank from cycling. both the darting and the hanging out at the bottom are signs of being uncomfortable. you don't need to use cycle. it doesn't actually do anything, dispite what it claims on the bottle. the bacteria that used to be in the bottle has long since died. i'm not sure about the missing scales. was he like that when you got him? if it were me, i'd add some salt to the water to help him build up a slime coat so that can heal. it will also help protect him a little if the water chemistry is off due to cycling.
> if you are having trouble getting him to eat you can try boiled and skinned peas, or blood worms. the fish is really cute. i like his big eyes. i hope he starts to feel better soon.


Started the tank last Nov so almost a year, and had 4 fish in it at one point now just down to this guy and the new algae eater (about a month old)
Only recently been putting cycle in it, but always used water conditioner for new water going into the tank.


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## bluekrissyspikes (Apr 16, 2009)

have you had that goldie for all this time?


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## destructo (Aug 12, 2009)

Had him since Jan so about 7 months


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## KaraC1980 (Jul 28, 2009)

Keep an eye on that algae eater, they like the taste of goldfish.


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## destructo (Aug 12, 2009)

KaraC1980 said:


> Keep an eye on that algae eater, they like the taste of goldfish.


Ya so I heard  I find the algae eater likes to stay in the cave most of the time or hide in the plants


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## destructo (Aug 12, 2009)

On second look, he doesn't seem to be loosing scales, the 3 fish that were in there with him all started to loose their scales and all ended up dieing. I used Melafix for week as the other fish that was with him had bad fin rot, however that didn't really help as he died about a week ago. I have made sure to do more frequent water changes to clear out whatever it is in there thats killing them, but I have also read that a really clean tank can do damage as well


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## KaraC1980 (Jul 28, 2009)

From what little I do know, cleaning a tank too throroughly and taking out too much water during a change makes you lose your 'beneficial bacteria', making you have to cycle the tank all over again. I'm not entirely sure, but I think these bacteria help get rid of the fish waste and ammonia and nitrites (or nitrate, I mix them up occasionally).


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## destructo (Aug 12, 2009)

Ya goin to get a test kit tonight and then check out the results, might give me a better idea of whats going on


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## destructo (Aug 12, 2009)

Water is as follows

PH - 7.6
Am - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 20

Don't know if that means anything but there it is


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## AquaNeko (Jul 26, 2009)

destructo said:


> Ya so I heard  I find the algae eater likes to stay in the cave most of the time or hide in the plants


Just a thought just to be sure but you may want to observe the algae eater about 30-60mins after lights are off. You may want to use a red light bulb or flashlight over the tank so you can see what's going on at a little distance. Then yo can see if perhaps the algae eater is harassing the goldie at night time when you're not watching it. You may want to randomly check on it when the lights are off to make sure.

What type of algae eater do you have? Chinese algae eater? Siamese algae eater? Otocinclus (dwarf sucker catfish and uber cute )?

Your goldie's eyes has that puppy look at least to me anyways.


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## Hitch (Apr 26, 2009)

is there a particular reason you started using cycling recently? since the tank should be already cycled?

As for the water tests, everything looks good. 

pH----self explanitory, for Toronto currently its about 7.4-7.6, so your pH seems normal.

Ammonia----released from the excrement and excess food and what not of the fish/shrimp/snails etc in the tank. A cycled tank should have a constant 0 for this reading, so yours is good.

Nitrite----the first stage of nitrification (a selection of nitrobacters convert ammonia into nitrite). A cycled tank should also have a constant 0 for this reading.

Nitrate----the least toxic form in this chain, least toxic but still little toxic. This is what the nitrobacters in the tank change nitrites to. Since the bacteria needed to convert nitrate to nitrogen is anaerobic (needs no oxygen in the environment), very little to none of this group of bacteria survive in the tank. Thats is why nitrates slowly build up in the tank and that's one of the reasons you need to do water changes. I usually keep my nitrate to less than 15, since all I keep are fancy plecos and they are nitrogen sensitive. That said a reading of 20 is not too high. Try to increase the water change frequencies/% of water changed to bring the nitrates down. Though I wouldnt imagine a nitrate of 20 affecting a goldfish too much.


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## destructo (Aug 12, 2009)

AquaNeko said:


> Just a thought just to be sure but you may want to observe the algae eater about 30-60mins after lights are off. You may want to use a red light bulb or flashlight over the tank so you can see what's going on at a little distance. Then yo can see if perhaps the algae eater is harassing the goldie at night time when you're not watching it. You may want to randomly check on it when the lights are off to make sure.
> 
> What type of algae eater do you have? Chinese algae eater? Siamese algae eater? Otocinclus (dwarf sucker catfish and uber cute )?
> 
> Your goldie's eyes has that puppy look at least to me anyways.


I will be sure to check on them while the lights are out.

Not too sure what kind it is, will look it up

He does have that look on him, right around feeding time too


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## destructo (Aug 12, 2009)

Hitch said:


> is there a particular reason you started using cycling recently? since the tank should be already cycled?
> 
> As for the water tests, everything looks good.
> 
> ...


Thanks for all that info , will do some bigger water changes to lower that number down a bit.

Just been noticing that he seems to be loosing his orange color on him  and kinda tweaks out here and there


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## Hitch (Apr 26, 2009)

umm...look at it closely, do you see any white spots? white patches? torn fins? white fringe on the end of fins?

But in the mean time, I would remove the goldfish into another tank for now.


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## papik (Oct 6, 2008)

that fish seems stressed out....... get him a friend (aka guinea pig) that way you can see if you are doing soemtihng wrong, or it's just a weird lil' fish.... take out that algae eater....... they can become territorial.... i'd also add some aquarium salt... and get a different bottom feeder.... that's tons of different types in all price ranges....... how often are you cleaning your filter? try replacing the carbon


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## destructo (Aug 12, 2009)

Hitch said:


> umm...look at it closely, do you see any white spots? white patches? torn fins? white fringe on the end of fins?
> 
> But in the mean time, I would remove the goldfish into another tank for now.


Well he is white so its kinda hard to see white spots, but it looks like he is missing a scale or 2 on each side of him, but I think it may just be the light hitting him

The only other tank I have is a 5 gal tank so not sure I want to move him from a 15 to a 5


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## destructo (Aug 12, 2009)

papik said:


> that fish seems stressed out....... get him a friend (aka guinea pig) that way you can see if you are doing soemtihng wrong, or it's just a weird lil' fish.... take out that algae eater....... they can become territorial.... i'd also add some aquarium salt... and get a different bottom feeder.... that's tons of different types in all price ranges....... how often are you cleaning your filter? try replacing the carbon


Ya been thinking the tank is a bit empty, so might get him a firend. I saw a post about epson salt, would that work as well?


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## Hitch (Apr 26, 2009)

take a close look. Fish scales are shiny and white spots/growths are not, its not too hard to distinguish.

You will need to set up a hospital tank so that you can (if needed) medicate the tank and fish. You wouldnt want to medicate your main tank, 5g is a little small, but it should be fine as long as your goldfish is less than 3 inches.

also, *dont* get a new fish until you figured out what is wrong with your current one. If it is a infection, all you are doing is infecting another fish.


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## destructo (Aug 12, 2009)

Hitch said:


> take a close look. Fish scales are shiny and white spots/growths are not, its not too hard to distinguish.
> 
> You will need to set up a hospital tank so that you can (if needed) medicate the tank and fish. You wouldnt want to medicate your main tank, 5g is a little small, but it should be fine as long as your goldfish is less than 3 inches.
> 
> also, *dont* get a new fish until you figured out what is wrong with your current one. If it is a infection, all you are doing is infecting another fish.


Will get that second tank hooked up and cycled. With the fish loosing its color and the "spots" or missing scales what could it be? and what will I need to treat it with?


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## Hitch (Apr 26, 2009)

destructo said:


> Will get that second tank hooked up and cycled. With the fish loosing its color and the "spots" or missing scales what could it be? and what will I need to treat it with?


try to take some close up pics of the fish, so that we can help identify the actual problem. If its white spots, then it could be ich or fungal, so good pics will help with this.

once the problem is identified then medication would be needed. Cycling the hospital tank is not too important, since you will be medicating it, and the fish is only in there for a short period of time.


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## destructo (Aug 12, 2009)

Will do tonight


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## destructo (Aug 12, 2009)

Couldn't get a clear pic of him, however the orange that was on the top of his head is all gone  and his right eye looks a bit cloudy. Any advice?


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## Hitch (Apr 26, 2009)

is it in another tank? or at least did you remove the other fish?

I am not the best when it comes to medications, but do the typical: do a water change, add salt and increase the temp


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## destructo (Aug 12, 2009)

Hitch said:


> is it in another tank? or at least did you remove the other fish?
> 
> I am not the best when it comes to medications, but do the typical: do a water change, add salt and increase the temp


Not yet, doing that tonight


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## Hitch (Apr 26, 2009)

if you have time right now, I would do it asap.

you can also add boiled water with conditioner to the conditioned cold water to the new tank to speed up the heat up process. Dont use hot water from the tap. 

from the cloudy eye, I would think its some sort of fungal infection, but get others opinions.


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## destructo (Aug 12, 2009)

Can't at the moment and won't be back home till later this evening so will try to do it asap, I still need to clean the small 5 gallon first and condition the water.


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## Hitch (Apr 26, 2009)

ah cool. Well hopefully someone more knowledgeable about medications would give you suggestions, so you can pick up some on the way.


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## destructo (Aug 12, 2009)

Hitch said:


> ah cool. Well hopefully someone more knowledgeable about medications would give you suggestions, so you can pick up some on the way.


If he does go to the great big goldfish bowl in the sky, what other types of fish would you suggest to put in with the pleco? I haven't had the best of luck with goldfish and would like to go onto tropical fish, but is it any different then taking care of goldfish?


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## papik (Oct 6, 2008)

get a beta and see how that goes........... it's a very easy fish to care for, and good looking........


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## Hitch (Apr 26, 2009)

destructo said:


> If he does go to the great big goldfish bowl in the sky, what other types of fish would you suggest to put in with the pleco? I haven't had the best of luck with goldfish and would like to go onto tropical fish, but is it any different then taking care of goldfish?


pleco? you mean the algae eater is a pleco?..lol, I thought it was a Siamese algae eater this whole time.

There are tones of good beginner tropical fish: guppies, platies, mollies, tetras, angelfish and the list goes on.

What kinds of fish are you interested in.

But in the mean time, lets focus on your sick fish before making plans for a replacement.


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## destructo (Aug 12, 2009)

Hitch said:


> pleco? you mean the algae eater is a pleco?..lol, I thought it was a Siamese algae eater this whole time.
> 
> There are tones of good beginner tropical fish: guppies, platies, mollies, tetras, angelfish and the list goes on.
> 
> ...


Of course I want to make sure he gets better. Although he is not looking all that great this morning  Lets hope the other tank will help him out.

In terms of other fish though, with a 15 gal tank what are my options? tetras are a personal fav so may go with them. Also with a heater what would be the ideal wats?


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## destructo (Aug 12, 2009)

For the life of me I can't seem to get a good pic of him  But he has a bit of a pink tint to him. I also moved him to the new tank and added a bit of melafix to the tank to maybe help him out. Although not sure whats the actual problem is so may not even help him. Should i add some aquarium salt to the tank? If so how much for 5 gals?


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## Hitch (Apr 26, 2009)

its good that he is in another tank. And yes you should, add about 1tsp/gallon.

add some Pimafix in there too, apparently they have synergetic affects. Plus both are herbal, so its not like you are putting methylene blue in the tank.

But when adding them, add a little at a time, ie. if you need to add 10 mls a day, add like 5 ml in the morning and 5 ml at noon or afternoon or something.


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## destructo (Aug 12, 2009)

Hitch said:


> its good that he is in another tank. And yes you should, add about 1tsp/gallon.
> 
> add some Pimafix in there too, apparently they have synergetic affects. Plus both are herbal, so its not like you are putting methylene blue in the tank.
> 
> But when adding them, add a little at a time, ie. if you need to add 10 mls a day, add like 5 ml in the morning and 5 ml at noon or afternoon or something.


The water it really cloudy and he doesnt seem to want to move that much. added a tablet of triple sulfa to the tank and a little bit of melafix. Did I over medicate him? Thinking about doing a water change tommarow


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