# Hair algae; More than phosphates/nitrates



## badmedicine (Oct 27, 2012)

I not sure what brought on my hair algae-It could be when I spiked my alk. I thought that I would share this article I found from a guy that incurred this problem and how he fixed it.

This is something that we all know (doesn't appear to be rocket surgery) but with some of us fighting this, might be a good review.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-07/nftt/index.php

Someone wrote that getting a CUC to fix hair algae is like putting a bucket under a leaking tank- it only solves the problem for a short time.


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

very good article. Probably should go to sticky section

I seen somewhere opinion that live rock accumulate phosphates by being in our tanks and going from one tank to another for several years a years

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## Steel_Wind (Oct 26, 2013)

My concern about this article is that it is based on "feelings" and speculation, with almost no hard data to support it at all. His list of aggravating factors is little more than a hydra hypothesis with seven heads.

I will accept that the old live rock was the source of phosphate, though I wonder why GFO was not able to deal with it better. I also wonder why his test kit was so poor. 

The advice on cooking the rock was probably the best element in the piece. I'm unconvinced about many of his other recommendations.


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## Bayinaung (Feb 24, 2012)

I guess the four months or more of cooking and "curing" the live rock I had paid off in that sense. When I initially started curing the rocks with RO water couldn't believe the amount of nitrates and stuff the rock was leaching. I was doing the water changes once a week.


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## badmedicine (Oct 27, 2012)

I thought that it was a good article (obviously because I shared it). Although it was not scientific to the point at definitively stating what MUST be done, he was successful after trying the traditional CUC way. 

The concept of keeping deitrus off the rock and gravel seemed to make sense to me. Hair algae can thrive on this stuff. His regiment of using a powerhead to clean the rock work and making water flow move the deitrus out of the tank into the filtration (skimmer or socks) seems logical-if the food isn't there for the algae to thrive, it will not flourish and possibly die off.

In my case of hair algae, I think that it was a result of spiking the Alkalinity in the water. I have no fish in my tank (thereby reducing the bioload concept), had zero nitrates/phosphate readings and had crystal clear water. I used a colour metric test kit (I won't mention the name cuz that will open a can of worms) rather than my usual Hanna checker. It gave me a reading that I thought indicative of needing alk. and boosted it. Within 3 days of the spike in alk I had my algae bloom. I did a water change/vacuum of hair algae this week and it seems to be in check ( I didn't get all of it so I wonder if it will die off or spread). It came on like a wrecking ball (lol) Lets see how it leaves.


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## altcharacter (Jan 10, 2011)

I'm somewhat lazy...well I'm very lazy!! when I have hair algae I turn down the lights and buy more snails. I give the snails mood lighting 

I figure just throw money at the problem


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## BaRoK (Sep 10, 2009)

I've been battling GHA for more than a year now. I tried the cooking method, blackout method, 40% WC every two weeks using RO/DI water and STILL GHA is persistent. Also removed my sand suspecting this was the culprit but its not the case. Then it has to be the liverocks.

We were away on vacation when the ice storm happened and had two days of no electricity. All of my fish and corals perished.

I took all the my liverocks and did an acid bath (bleach & muriatic acid). I'm currently cycling my tank right with several CUC. I'm about to put my liverocks back again on the DT. Hopefully GHA wont appear again in the near future.


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## Mikeylikes (Nov 22, 2013)

Are we saying all liverock should be cooked first ?


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## Steel_Wind (Oct 26, 2013)

Mikeylikes said:


> Are we saying all liverock should be cooked first ?


I think it is a different observation and objective to suggest curing new dry rock or even live rock to clean it up and ensure there is nothing leeching, than to choose to remove and cure your own live rock from your DT after 3+ yrs of use.

Bottom line though: curing is good & is almost never bad.

__________________
.Robert


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## Bayinaung (Feb 24, 2012)

Steel_Wind said:


> I think it is a different observation and objective to suggest curing new dry rock or even live rock to clean it up and ensure there is nothing leeching, than to choose to remove and cure your own live rock from your DT after 3+ yrs of use.
> 
> Bottom line though: curing is good & is almost never bad.
> 
> ...


I second that. That was the most important thing I thought from all the research I did for marine tanks - curing the rock! So I spent spring and all summer curing rock with RO water, changing once a week. Should've sold extra rock for more than $3 a pound. dang. I'm so freakin happy I had been this patient. OMG. This is taking longer than having a baby! LMAO.


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

there is just one way to get rid from GHA completely - do not allow it in the first place.

I do not know why, but I never had a tiny piece of it in all my tanks during my 3 years with SW.

My forts 200lbs LR which I was stupid enough to buy, where full of algae. I cleaned it with the brash and burned it with the plumbing torch and they never got algae back

Here is the easy secret (it worked for me) how do not get GHA - regular water changes (~ 40% per month), GFO and carbon, T5s light for maximum of 10 hours per day. Good skimmer.For sure reasonable feeding. All of the above should start from the day one and not after you got GHA. Al my tanks were always overloaded.

and please do not BS yourself that tiny amount of chaeto will replace all of the above.
In order to make it happen you will need probably 500g sump full of chaeto to maintain 20G DT.

you can not recreate processes of the ocean in 100G tank

This is just my opinion and it worked well for me from the day one. Unfortunately all of the guys who were disagree with me and tried to run natural tanks have dirty ponds today or closed the tanks.

It is much easier to prevent than to fix

Water changes are not just water. This process adds a Calcium, Alkalinity, Magnesium and etc. components, which were consumed by your tank.

you can call it a rant, but it is a true and true hurts sometimes

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## Mikeylikes (Nov 22, 2013)

I haven't started building my tank yet so it probably makes sense for me to go out and purchase dry Marco rock and use 1 live rock to start the curing and seeding process. Kind of a let down knowing that I will have to wait 2-3 months for this process to complete. Oh well patience is a virtue they say.

Thanks for the information guys. While I know that doesn't guarantee me from getting GHA in the future at least it will give me better odds so long as I follow a regular maintenance schedule of WC, feeding etc etc.

Now to find storage tanks for my RO and SW. Have looked around and found used 55 gallon plastic tanks but most are blue and without an open lid. Just 2 bung holes and dirty at that.

JJPlastics have them but are fairly expensive new. I guess I won't have a choice as I'm anal in wanting white, open top ones so I can see the water level.


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## Steel_Wind (Oct 26, 2013)

I don't think you will be looking at curing dry rock for 2-3 months!

Mine has been in for five weeks tomorrow. I will check phosphates tonight, but it's pretty much good to go right now - I'm pretty sure of that.

I've started to put in some live rock with it now to get the cycle going. If I had to, my bet is I could start placing rock in the DT tomorrow. I'll wait it out with some more testing just to be sure, but I am probably there.

Point is: 4-6 weeks for dry rock curing is recommended (YMMV) and then cycling can either straddle it, you can amplify it with added bacteria in a bottle (Dr. Tim's One and Only, is really the sole commercial choice here that is based on marine LR bacteria), seed with live rock, seed with live sand, seed with tank water, or combinations of some or all of the above.

So no, your build might take you 2-3 months for a whole number of very good reasons, but it won't be as a result of simply curing your dry rock.

Moreover, once you got rock in the water, salt to mix, chemistry to monitor, a skimmer and pumps going? It's a lot less like waiting and a lot more like "doing", for the good reason that you ARE **doing stuff**. 

Get the 55g Blue plastic barrel with the locking lid. They are about $25 on Kijiji. Scrub it out if you have to. There is no substitute.


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## pulpfiction1 (Jun 20, 2013)

sig said:


> very good article. Probably should go to sticky section
> 
> I seen somewhere opinion that live rock accumulate phosphates by being in our tanks and going from one tank to another for several years a years


absolutley,i had a single 10lb rock that i used for a couple of years,this was the only rock that had the HA on it in my tank,never did beat it,i just got rid of that rock,all has been good every since,went almost nuts trying to figue it out at the time


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## Bayinaung (Feb 24, 2012)

pulpfiction1 said:


> absolutley,i had a single 10lb rock that i used for a couple of years,this was the only rock that had the HA on it in my tank,never did beat it,i just got rid of that rock,all has been good every since,went almost nuts trying to figue it out at the time


You can cure that rock and it'll be fine again. Since it's been in your system you don't have to cook it, just cure it.


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## fury165 (Aug 21, 2010)

Steel_Wind said:


> I don't think you will be looking at curing dry rock for 2-3 months!
> 
> Mine has been in for five weeks tomorrow. I will check phosphates tonight, but it's pretty much good to go right now - I'm pretty sure of that.
> 
> ...


Is this based on feelings and speculation or is there hard data? 

I cooked my live rock for 8 months in a brute container and maintained it with daily "ghost feedings" and weekly water changes. After finally getting my tank setup and rocks in, it still took me over 2 months for the tank to cycle naturally and properly. Each tank is different, but I'd rather advocate slow and steady instead of snake oil approaches (bacteria in a bottle et al.)


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## Steel_Wind (Oct 26, 2013)

fury165 said:


> Is this based on feelings and speculation or is there hard data?
> 
> I cooked my live rock for 8 months in a brute container and maintained it with daily "ghost feedings" and weekly water changes. After finally getting my tank setup and rocks in, it still took me over 2 months for the tank to cycle naturally and properly. Each tank is different, but I'd rather advocate slow and steady instead of snake oil approaches (bacteria in a bottle et al.)


The bacteria in a bottle approach (other than Dr Tim's) is not the same nitrifying bacteria strain found in the ocean on Live Rock. That stuff is cultured from freshwater sewer filtration bacteria and it is not the same as found in the ocean. That's the problem with that stuff (and that the preservative substrate may be iffy, too). Dr. Tim's, otoh, is the same.

Not snake oil. Mr. Saltwater Tank has an extended episode or three explaining the difference in Dr. Tim's product from all the others. You should check it out before branding it "snake oil".

Nothing wrong with patient cooking and cycling, but TEN MONTHS to get your tank going is a long, long time.

__________________
.Robert


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## fury165 (Aug 21, 2010)

To the impatient yes it is a long time, but my whole build was long and planned out. It started out with a few months of research, then planning then the implementation. No regrets, no pest hitch hikers just really clean live rock. I'm certainly not insisting this is the only way to go, just the way I went. 

I know all about the dr. tim's products and others in the same vein - a solution to impatience. I preferred to follow the tried and true advice of seasoned veterans who have been through the joys and horrors of reef keeping.


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## fury165 (Aug 21, 2010)

Mikeylikes said:


> Now to find storage tanks for my RO and SW. Have looked around and found used 55 gallon plastic tanks but most are blue and without an open lid. Just 2 bung holes and dirty at that.
> 
> JJPlastics have them but are fairly expensive new. I guess I won't have a choice as I'm anal in wanting white, open top ones so I can see the water level.


 I have two ~24 gallon closed top and one ~13 gallon open top vertical containers, you can see through the sides and the have graduated markings so you can gauge the volume, the real benefit of the open top that JJ Downs sells is it is the easiest to clean. I can't reach the bottom of the 24 gal tanks when cleaning...with the 13 gal I just remove the lid and get to work. Currently I only use one 24 gal for rodi water and the 13 gal for salt water.


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## badmedicine (Oct 27, 2012)

I used the Dr. Tim's Bacteria to start my 180. Definitely kickstarted my tank. It has genuine saltwater bacteria in it. I would recommend this product to anyone.


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## crab (Jul 7, 2013)

badmedicine said:


> I used the Dr. Tim's Bacteria to start my 180. Definitely kickstarted my tank. It has genuine saltwater bacteria in it. I would recommend this product to anyone.


Where to get in Toronto?


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## Steel_Wind (Oct 26, 2013)

crab said:


> Where to get in Toronto?


 Not sure. I ended up getting it at Amazon.ca.


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