# Can't Start The Cycle - Opinions Please



## Pruss (Nov 25, 2014)

Hey gang.

So I've started a planted tank in my daughter's nursery (pictures are here: http://gtaaquaria.com/forum/showthread.php?p=935714#post935714). My problem is, I can't get the cycle to start.

I've been testing regularly and my ammonia is climbing (8.0ppm tonight), with nitrite and nitrate both stuck on 0. I've tried regular water changes, I've tried significant water changes after using ammo-lock. I've also used the bottled bacteria from the LFS to kickstart colonization all to no avail.

I feel like I'm missing something simple here, but can't for the life of me think of what.

I'd appreciate your thoughts and opinions here gang.

Tank parameters:
50g corner
Eheim 2217 canister filter with ceramic tubes, and sponge pad
Fluorescent lights 10hrs on
Temp set at 78F
Fluorite substrate
Big oak
ADA substrate additives used to start the tank

-- Pat


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## UsAndThem (Jan 20, 2015)

Pruss said:


> Hey gang.
> 
> So I've started a planted tank in my daughter's nursery (pictures are here: http://gtaaquaria.com/forum/showthread.php?p=935714#post935714). My problem is, I can't get the cycle to start.
> 
> ...


Hey there , It is literally impossible for the nitrogen cycle not to take place, it takes a little bit of patience. It will take a good week (If not longer in a smaller tank) for your Nitrosamonas bacteria to catch up and oxidize the ammonia into nitrite. thats why you arent seeing any nitrite or the by product nitrate, there is no food for the Nitrobacter bacter to convert. 

If this is a fish in cycle , do a 50% water change. also stop feeding the fish and vacuum the subsrate. keep doing that everyday until one day it will reach 0PPM ammonia. once this happens you are going to see your nitrites shoot up out of control. If it goes above 2 ppm use Prime to bind to it and do a 25% water change if it goes over 5ppm do a 50 % each time it does. this part of the cycle may take several weeks.

once your nitrite read 0PPM for 24 Hours do a huge water change 90% to bring nitrates down and your tank is cycled.


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## Pruss (Nov 25, 2014)

Thanks for your thoughts.

This has been a fish free cycle. I have been trying to start the cycle for five weeks. My experience with cycling tanks says that you're right... It's impossible for the cycle not to occur.

Which is why the lack of nitrite and nitrate is so disturbing.

I'll get aggressive with daily water changes and see how that goes. 

I just can't fathom why with so much food I'm not getting bacteria going...

-- Pat


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## renesis (Nov 17, 2014)

Not sure how accurate this is, but I did read nitrification is impaired (but not stopped entirely) when the ammonia level is >5ppm.

I started with ADA Amazonia as well, which leached out a lot of ammonia - though I did do water changes to keep the levels around 2-3ppm - the (fishless) cycle started in about 12 days.

But, I did also get some generously donated (from a member here) squeezed filter media water that I then soaked my sponges in to kick start it.


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## UsAndThem (Jan 20, 2015)

renesis said:


> Not sure how accurate this is, but I did read nitrification is impaired (but not stopped entirely) when the ammonia level is >5ppm.
> 
> I started with ADA Amazonia as well, which leached out a lot of ammonia - though I did do water changes to keep the levels around 2-3ppm - the (fishless) cycle started in about 12 days.
> 
> But, I did also get some generously donated (from a member here) squeezed filter media water that I then soaked my sponges in to kick start it.


ADA soil needs to be cycled , it contains ammonia to begin with. usually its thoroughly rinsed and dried , repeat .

There is no way you need to build up that much bacteria in a 50 Gallon aquarium. make sure to stop dosing with ammonia immediately , Give the bacteria time to catch up. bring the ammonia level in the tank to 2 PPM. through water changes. but no more than 50% a day water change.

once again STOP adding ammonia. also so you know that all bacteria starters contain ammonia for the bacteria in the bottle to thrive. no need to add to the bioload that's why it is taking so long.

Remember patience is the key ! believe me it will be tested once you see nitrites. It's going to make you think the Nitrogen cycle is broken


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## Pruss (Nov 25, 2014)

UsAndThem said:


> ADA soil needs to be cycled , it contains ammonia to begin with. usually its thoroughly rinsed and dried , repeat .
> 
> There is no way you need to build up that much bacteria in a 50 Gallon aquarium. make sure to stop dosing with ammonia immediately , Give the bacteria time to catch up. bring the ammonia level in the tank to 2 PPM. through water changes. but no more than 50% a day water change.
> 
> ...


Thanks.

I'm not dosing ammonia. I started the cycle by adding fish food, until I saw my ammonia levels skyrocketing, at which point I stopped.

So time for relentless water changes.

-- Pat


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## Pruss (Nov 25, 2014)

renesis said:


> Not sure how accurate this is, but I did read nitrification is impaired (but not stopped entirely) when the ammonia level is >5ppm.
> 
> I started with ADA Amazonia as well, which leached out a lot of ammonia - though I did do water changes to keep the levels around 2-3ppm - the (fishless) cycle started in about 12 days.
> 
> But, I did also get some generously donated (from a member here) squeezed filter media water that I then soaked my sponges in to kick start it.


I had no idea that the cycle stalled at high levels of ammonia.

Thanks for that.

-- Pat


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## UsAndThem (Jan 20, 2015)

Pruss said:


> I had no idea that the cycle stalled at high levels of ammonia.
> 
> Thanks for that.
> 
> -- Pat


A good way to look at it would be to compare it to eating 1 lb of chicken wings... thats manageable ... now how about 20 Lbs of chicken wings ?? It's gonna take you much longer 

You just put way to much fish food thats all . It will catch up slowly but surely.


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## Pruss (Nov 25, 2014)

UsAndThem said:


> A good way to look at it would be to compare it to eating 1 lb of chicken wings... thats manageable ... now how about 20 Lbs of chicken wings ?? It's gonna take you much longer
> 
> You just put way to much fish food thats all . It will catch up slowly but surely.


I'd take that chicken wing challenge...

I think the spikes came from the ADA additives and perhaps decaying plant matter from first planting die off.

-- Pat


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

Pruss said:


> Thanks.
> 
> I'm not dosing ammonia. I started the cycle by adding fish food, until I saw my ammonia levels skyrocketing, at which point I stopped.
> 
> ...


IMO you're delaying your cycle by doing so many water changes. Leave your tank alone for a week and then check your ammonia/nitrite level again.


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## Pruss (Nov 25, 2014)

solarz said:


> IMO you're delaying your cycle by doing so many water changes. Leave your tank alone for a week and then check your ammonia/nitrite level again.


I did that... ammonia levels stayed at +8.0ppm.

-- Pat


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## cb1021 (Sep 21, 2009)

Is 8ppm the highest reference point on test kit? If it's too high, it _can_ hinder the cycling process. Try maintaining it at 4-6ppm until nitrites kick in.


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## woopderson (Feb 12, 2014)

I cycled my 26g with a very thick layer of ADA. It took a little over 8 weeks to cycle. It leeches quite a bit of ammonia. If you can get your hands on seeded media I strongly recommend it, as even with that it took the full 8 weeks.

It takes a looooooot of patience to cycle the stuff.

My journal can be found here: http://gtaaquaria.com/forum/showthread.php?t=76001


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

Pruss said:


> I did that... ammonia levels stayed at +8.0ppm.
> 
> -- Pat


Wait another week then. IME the ADA soil leeches quite a bit of ammonia. If you can get your hand on seeded media, it will be a lot easier. Otherwise, you just have to wait.

I've had ammonia off the charts while cycling too. I just left it alone, and because I had seeded media, it cycled in a couple of weeks.


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