# What to do?



## Atom (Sep 17, 2014)

Hi everyone,

I've got a couple tanks with shrimp in them and although the shrimp (cherries/neos) are surviving fine, they aren't exactly thriving. I've seen them breed/berry maybe once and I've had shrimp in my tanks for almost a year now.

I've narrowed it down to water parameters. Here's a summary of what they've tested as:

*20g tank:*

pH: 8.1
Gh: 3 degrees
Kh: 9 degrees
TDS: 266

*5.5g tank:*

pH: 7.8
Gh: 2 degrees
Kh: 4-5 degrees
TDS: 99 (increasing slowly)

Both tanks:
Ammonia = 0 ppm, Nitrite = 0 ppm, Nitrate = 5 ppm

The main problem I'm seeing is the pH and Kh are a bit high and the Gh is low. I'm on well water so that probably accounts for the high pH and Kh, but is there any way to cheaply and effectively bring my water levels to a range where the shrimp can breed?

I think the biggest concern is lowering the Kh because it acts as a buffer and until the Kh is changed, it's going to be hard to alter the pH.

Suggestions?


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## woopderson (Feb 12, 2014)

Neos need around 200-300 TDS, and a low KH. What mineralizer are you using?


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## Atom (Sep 17, 2014)

Thanks for the response.

I'm actually not using a mineralizer at the moment. I was hoping I wouldn't have to because from everything I had read up on they seem to do fine with just tap.  Didn't realize I had such weird water.

The reason there's a difference in values between the two tanks is because I put about 80-90% RO water in the 5.5g (if that's believable  ). The RO's pH was 6.4 whereas my tap water is 7.8-8, but even with that much RO, the tank seems to have buffered back to 7.8 .


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## woopderson (Feb 12, 2014)

I use ro and MK Breed mineralizer in all my tanks, including neos, just to be safe.

Do you have any rocks in the tanks? I had a rock in my tb tank that was leeching minerals


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## Atom (Sep 17, 2014)

Funny you should mention that actually. I had a rock I decided to test in a tub of tap water and the TDS skyrocketed to 546 ppm, Kh and pH going way up too within 2 days. From that, I decided against adding rocks into the aquarium so there aren't any in there right now.

Both tanks have "inert" gravel (20g: National Geographic black gravel, 5.5g: Marina(?) black gravel), but it's possible that they could be leaching into the aquarium. The 5.5g also has an Aquaclear HOB with a biomax bag insert so I'm not sure if that contributes anything. 

I think the well water has a limestone origin so that's where the Kh/carbonate is coming from :\


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## woopderson (Feb 12, 2014)

Well water could definitely do it. I also had a bad experience with nat geo gravel, it began losing its colour. Can't be good!

I use aquaclears and biomax in all my tanks, no issues with it.

My guess is it is the combo of the sand and the well water. In that case i would start by trying straight ro and mineralizer. If after that the problem still exists, I would change the sand.


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## Atom (Sep 17, 2014)

Yeah a couple of these rocks look just like painted quartz or something :\

Thanks for your continued responses. I'll try again adding more RO water then. Where would you recommend getting a mineralizer? Petsmart and Big Al's (closest stores to me) seem to only have the Fluval brand.

As autumn is approaching, would you also recommend adding alder cones and oak leaves to the tank to help with the pH since they're readily available?


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## woopderson (Feb 12, 2014)

Glad to help 

My nat geo looked the same, just painted 

Fluval mineralizer should be ok from Big Als if you wish to pick up. MK Breed Blue Diamond can be ordered from shrimpwiki.com (if in stock). 

You can add oak and alder if you have them readily available. Be very wary that you are picking them from somewhere that has no chance of being hit with pesticides or contaminants. 

Alder cones and oak leaves will also have great health benefits for your shrimps. They act as anti bacterial/fungal preventatives, and having some leaf litter on the bottom of the tank creates a more natural environment. 

You don't have to boil the cones/leaves, but make sure they are fully dead and dried before putting them in the tank.


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## Atom (Sep 17, 2014)

Perfect  thank you so much for the help!


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## woopderson (Feb 12, 2014)

You're very welcome


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## Atom (Sep 17, 2014)

So I actually found that I have a source of mineralized water in my house on another (hidden) tap. Two questions:

1.) Would it be ok to mix the RO and this mineralized water to create the parameters I need? 

2.) Assuming the parameters stay the same after I've perfected them, is it ok to just top off the water with RO whenever it needs more water? The parameters should stay the same I'm assuming unless components in the water are exhausted or used up (do they?).

Thanks!


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## woopderson (Feb 12, 2014)

It may be risky to use mineralized water as you don't know necessarily what it could contain. Does it come from your well? Is it chlorinated? If you know the source and what it contains, then it should be safe to use or mox with ro.

If anything your parameters (tds and nitrates) will increase over time. Topups with ro will bring this down slightly, but not necessarily to the original levels.

Partial water changes with ro for sure!


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## Atom (Sep 17, 2014)

Ahh ok thanks for the advice on that. The water from this tap is chlorinated, but isn't run through the softener that connects all the other taps in the house.

I'm guessing this means that because the "raw" water has a higher GH content (tested way over 15 degrees of hardness), it's mostly got more Calcium and Magnesium than the 3 degree GH softened water? Could the GH test pick up on other minerals that are harmful?


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## darkangel66n (May 15, 2013)

To successfully and consistently breed crystal shrimp you pretty much need to start with pure RO water and a re-mineralizer. I prefer SMW to about 160ppm. Well water is not going to cut it in Canada. It will be very hard to keep the numbers down where you need them. 5.5 gallons is a very small tank to try and keep the parameters where you need them. Tanks also need lids as evaporation also changes the parameters. Do you have an active substrate in the tank? It is very much a must have in my opinion. Buffers the water and keeps the ph lower amongst other things. I find crystals to be much hardier then neos as well.


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## Atom (Sep 17, 2014)

Thanks for the reply darkangel66n. My shrimp are actually neocaridina red cherry shrimp so I thought I could get away with a bit more leniency in terms of water parameters. I thought crystals would need more precise measurements that I wouldn't be able to keep up with if I were to have fluctuations.

My substrate is inert black gravel and both tanks have lids. Is it really difficult to maintain a decent range of parameters in a 5.5g tank? I was hoping that even with fluctuations due to the size of the tank, the parameters would stay within a decent range. I unfortunately don't have much space at this time


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## woopderson (Feb 12, 2014)

It shouldn't be that hard. Is the room the tank is in air conditioned? Once you have the water sorted and are able to water change/mineralize you should be a-ok.


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## Atom (Sep 17, 2014)

Well thanks again for putting up with my over-thinking 

I'm probably going to restart the tank later this weekend because the pH has somehow jumped to 8.2 (Sept 20) from 7.8 (measured Sept 6-14)  Might be the substrate. 

I'm going to try an experiment with pure RO in a little tub as a control vs. a tub of RO with the substrate to see what happens.

I've got a bit too much time on my hands I guess  I may continue updating on here as long as it doesn't get too repetitive and boring.


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## woopderson (Feb 12, 2014)

Keep me updated on your experiment. I tend to try to work out all the details in situations like this as well, so no worries there!

I have wild neos in an unairconditioned room in a 2.5g w/ sponge filter and no heater on fluval substrate just doing fine. 5.5g should be nooo problem.


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