# ADA style on the cheap, how much would a system cost?



## FlyingHellFish (Mar 7, 2011)

I'm looking to create a 10 - 30 gallon ADA iwagumi tank style set up, how much would a complete system cost?

Got a few questions,

*Tank:*
1. ADA tank in Canada - where can I get one? Is there a GLA, Do!Aqua or similar that is located in Toronto? I don't want those "Starfire" tanks at AI, but they do look great.

Best choice: ?

GLA
Do!Aqua
ADA
Starfire

*Filter:*

1. Can you use those illy pad ADA glass output and input on any canister filter?

*CO2:*

1. A complete set up for Co2 - Runs 300 - 400, looking for a solid regulator and solenoid. Does anyone know a locate place? AI has a set up, not sure about the quality of those regulators, are they any good?

2. Can I buy a regulator and add a paintball adapter? Instead of those 5 - 10 lbs Co2 tank, would paintball cylinders work?

3. Would a 5 - 10 lb Co2 system be over kill on a 10 - 20 gallon tank?

*Lighting:*

1. LED or Power Compact? Can a desk lamp or a clamp lamp substitute? How does a 6500 K, 23 watt Spiral PC compare to a LED system?

*AquaScaping: *

1. How long does an average Dry Start method take to create a lush carpet?

2. Is there a need for those ADA dry fertilizers or can I just use the EI method with Seacheam Flourish?

3. What substrate will last the longest without replacing, or is AquaSoil the "best" one to use?


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## iBetta (Jun 19, 2011)

im not the best person so answer your questions but i just wanted to say that if you are planning to get some HC (i think you do right?) from AI, make sure you double-check it yourself after it is bagged. last time i went i forgot to double-check it and they gave me Hm instead....T.T

and also:

Congrats! 
i knew you would want to start the whole planted/high tech/end scaping XD! once u start with "some" plants you would want to upgrade sooner or later!

Welcome to "the planted syndrome"! (i just made that up lol)


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## FlyingHellFish (Mar 7, 2011)

Yeah, it's a sickness I tell ya! I want something local because ordering anything this time of month is not really a good idea, especially fragile things like tanks.


Did you return it and get HC instead? How are the plants at AI right now? Couple months ago, their selections wasn't that great. 


You ever thought of maybe upgrading to a Co2 system? I basically want something like your tank picture, just with a stand and different lights. 

By the way, what the different between Power Compact and Compact Fluorescent ? Spiral versus Bulbs.


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## iBetta (Jun 19, 2011)

nah, its too far for me to return it. they just had a new shipment but most of the rarer plants were sold out already (always happens to me lol). they just have stem plants left. i probably go there anytime soon because they're far from me. and well, i like franks better .

they do have nice starfire tanks though, so maybe u can check it out! i thought about that C02 system but its still too expensive for me. for my 15g, DIY seems to do the job (hc is pearling so i take that as a good sign XD). 

oof, im the wrong person to ask about lights once again ahahaha, im still in noobie stage and will remain there for quite some time lol. all i can say is (sorry if im wrong!) that CFs are more energy efficient than PC bulbs . i hope im right on that......most PCs are bulbs and the CF come in many different forms...once again...i hope im right on this too XD. sorry but i know im not much of help lol!


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## FlyingHellFish (Mar 7, 2011)

Did some reading, it seem they're both the same thing. Power Compact just a brand name sort of thing, one is tube and the other is spiral. It's just that spiral not very even and PC has those reflectors to even out the light.


Anyways, your DIY Co2 consist of one bottle? When do you have to change your mixture? Do you just leave your Co2 on day and night or shut off at night.

I would do a DIY Co2 but it just sound like a ton of work, especially dealing with the smelly mixture. How much pearling did you get with your Co2?


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## iBetta (Jun 19, 2011)

ahahh see? i was totally wrong XD. 
yep just one bottle, since its DIY, i just leave it on as there's no valve that shuts it. i change it every month or so....its actually pretty easy. u just mix some yeast with water and sugar and voila lol.

i dont know about others but i love the smell XD. it smells exactely like wine! (i swear im not an alchoholic! lol)


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## FlyingHellFish (Mar 7, 2011)

Yeah I went back and took a look at your tank, that really nice for just a DIY Co2, must of got the bubble rate just right.

When you change your mixture, how bad does it smell? I'm guessing you do it in the washroom?


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## iBetta (Jun 19, 2011)

nah, i changed it in my room, kitchen, w/e ahahah! it smells really sweet and good....
and you can't really preset a bubble rate since its DIY
and thank you for looking at my tank!


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## FlyingHellFish (Mar 7, 2011)

I was really interested in the Co2 system at AI, but I'm not sure if they're fully knowledgable if something goes wrong. The system doesn't come with a glass diffuser and I was asking them on the phone about the bubble counter etc, got pretty much the same answer as the description on the site. Maybe it was just the language barrier.

 

Maybe I should try a DIY C02 first. If you can't get a consist bubble rate, how do you control how much get into the tank? Also, when the mixture dies down, is there a risk of a Co2 overdosing?


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## Will (Jul 24, 2008)

DIY CO2 is not consitent, and not controllable (Except by altering the recipe mix you use). But it is a very simple and cheap means of adding co2 into a tank. Here is a video I'm made all about building a DIY co2 reactor.

HOW TO DIY CO2 For Planted Aquariums  (Subscription, comments, thumbs up- all appreciated, thanks)

Overdosing co2 by means of a DIY reactor usually would occur on the first night or two, when the mixture is producing the most (usually about a 24hr period to stabalise). So I generally remove the reactor output hose from the tank on the first night, and put it in a fishless plant tank. then I'll replace it tot eh tank in the morning- and not touch it again till I remake the bottle.

Honestly, bubble rate means squat. It's a measurement of how much co2 you are pumping into the tank, but not necessarily how much co2 is being absorbed into the tank. A drop checker is a simple tool to measure that.


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## FlyingHellFish (Mar 7, 2011)

Very good video, how would you say the DIY Co2 compares to Co2 Tanks?

Would DIY CO2 + Excel (recommended doses) + EI dosing be able to grow carpet plants? I'm thinking HC, Ricca etc.

What would be the best diffuser and bubble counter , check valve set up for a DIY? A few people said the DIY method gets costly in the long run (manual labour + yeast, sugar etc) , is a complete CO2 system the most cost effective? 

I'm at a point where I actually make do a DIY regulator etc etc.


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## Will (Jul 24, 2008)

DIY co2 doesnt compare to pressurised co2. It's better in every way except price. It would take like 10 years for the price of DIY co2 to come close to the price of a pressurised system. Takes me about three minutes to refill a new co2 bottle.

If you look at my other videos, specifically the 20G you can see that I am growing HC, with the same co2 that I have shown in the video.

If you DIY the co2... consider DIYing a diffuser and bubble counter. Check valves are a buck.


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## iBetta (Jun 19, 2011)

yep, i'm also running DIY, one bottle, no drop checker, valves whatsoever and my HC is pearling! 
everything looks ok so far, good growth and they don't look like they have any nutrient deficiencies. however, i AM using EI, and some occasional doses of excel


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## FlyingHellFish (Mar 7, 2011)

Awesome info! I didn't think DIY Co2 could get plants to pearl, must be a hell of a good mixture.


Will, do you know if any type of diffuser and bubble counter works? I was considering those ADA style or Cal aqua style ones. Might as well grab some gear just in case I update in the future.
Also, do you guys use a PH checker? Those green water upside down things.

Any idea why some diffuser are 100+ while others are 10 bucks? I saw an ADA one for 100, which is crazy. They both do the same thing right?


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## Will (Jul 24, 2008)

You can DIY a bubble counter and diffuser. I dont have any comments on specific brands. Most of the ADA ones have 10X as much style as they do function.

A drop checker is probably going to be one of the most useful items in co2 dosing.


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## iBetta (Jun 19, 2011)

well some diffusers work better than others, so more expensive? i dont think there is a 100% c02 diffusion in tanks (except that some have told me that the fluval one is) but the more C02 a diffuser can diffuse evenly to the water column, the better. i personally use that 10.00$ ceramic one from BA you see on my thread and i find is pretty good. however, i just changed it to one of those that you used to hook onto air pumps because i needed to change my ceramic ring from the one at BA and i got lazy XD. still works well since its DIY, the C02 that is generated and released should be a lot less compared to pressurized anyways so its negligeable to me. i could be wrong though once again XD


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## Symplicity (Oct 14, 2011)

Heres more or less my tank

AI 60CM tank $140
ADA Amazonia II x2 bags $40x2 = $80
Lily pipes ... $80? ouch
Canister Filter $90
Inline heater $80
Diffuser $10
CO2 tank (filled) $90
Regulator $90
Tubing $3
Light $140? i think ...

it adds up fast

from AquaInspiration ... they can negotiate with cash


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

FlyingHellFish said:


> I'm looking to create a 10 - 30 gallon ADA iwagumi tank style set up, how much would a complete system cost?


Depends on how much bargain hunting you are willing to do  The most expensive equipment will probably be the aquarium itself.



FlyingHellFish said:


> *Tank:*
> 1. ADA tank in Canada - where can I get one? Is there a GLA, Do!Aqua or similar that is located in Toronto? I don't want those "Starfire" tanks at AI, but they do look great.
> 
> Best choice: ?
> ...


The Starfire (which is not really a brand, it is just a type of glass with low iron content so that it is more transparent) aquariums that AI carries are likely your best bet for a local source. Other than that, you will have to order. Alternatively, if you are going to Asia, you could always bring back an aquarium. I can tell you that an ADA Mini-S fits perfectly fine into a carry-on bag (personal experience )



FlyingHellFish said:


> *Filter:*
> 
> 1. Can you use those illy pad ADA glass output and input on any canister filter?


Yes, as long as you ensure that the diameters of the lily pipes and the filter tubing matches.

You can get cheaper ones on eBay; granted, they are mroe fragile as they are made with thinner glass. You get what you pay for, but if you are careful, you should be fine.



FlyingHellFish said:


> *CO2:*
> 
> 1. A complete set up for Co2 - Runs 300 - 400, looking for a solid regulator and solenoid. Does anyone know a locate place? AI has a set up, not sure about the quality of those regulators, are they any good?


A CO2 setup shouldn't cost that much, especially if you bargain hunt for prices.

A lot of people have been messaging me about the AI setup; in my opinion, it will work, but I would recommend that you replace the needle valve. After that cost, you might as well bargain hunt for quality parts on eBay. If you do it properly, you will acquire parts that will never need to be replaced.



FlyingHellFish said:


> 2. Can I buy a regulator and add a paintball adapter? Instead of those 5 - 10 lbs Co2 tank, would paintball cylinders work?


Absolutely. Though, paintball cylinders tend not to last very long.



FlyingHellFish said:


> 3. Would a 5 - 10 lb Co2 system be over kill on a 10 - 20 gallon tank?


I use a 10 pound cylinder on an ADA Mini-S (approximately 3 gallons). It is not overkill, though it makes an interesting conversation piece.



FlyingHellFish said:


> *Lighting:*
> 
> 1. LED or Power Compact? Can a desk lamp or a clamp lamp substitute? How does a 6500 K, 23 watt Spiral PC compare to a LED system?


I would use PC bulbs. They are cheaper than LEDs currently. A single 23W PC bulb would not be sufficient for a 20 gallon aquarium, however.



FlyingHellFish said:


> *AquaScaping: *
> 
> 1. How long does an average Dry Start method take to create a lush carpet?


Depends what kind of carpet you are trying to grow. For HC, it takes about 3-4 weeks, depending on how densely you initially plant the HC.



FlyingHellFish said:


> 2. Is there a need for those ADA dry fertilizers or can I just use the EI method with Seacheam Flourish?


If your aim is to have a high light setup, you will need to dose fertilizers. There is no need for the expensive ADA nor the Seachem line of fertilizers. I would recommend you purchase dry fertilizers and just dose using the EI regimen.



FlyingHellFish said:


> 3. What substrate will last the longest without replacing, or is AquaSoil the "best" one to use?


I use Seachem Flourite Black. It doesn't degrade like ADA substrates, and it seems to work fine for me to grow HC, _B. japonica_, etc, with no problems.

If you are trying to grow finickier plants (_Eriocaulon _ spp.), you may have more luck with Aquasoil, however.

Hope this helps,


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