# Does this look good?



## DamFish (Feb 9, 2012)

The question is, do I need to add a flexible piece between the return pump and the sump tank? 
This is the slowest sump build on record Only got the last two baffles added today and a 2 hr Lowes visit for the fittings.








Tomorrow should be all the plumbing


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## Shoryureppa (Jul 1, 2011)

I would recommend adding a flex hose between the valve and the return pump to minimize the vibration of the pump and preventing it.

BTW, I hate looking for plumbing parts at lowes


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

it looks terrible. sorry but better you will know true today that will have problems tomorrow

you forgot union to disconnect pump from the tank and you need a union above the pump to take pump out for cleaning or repairs
http://www.aquariumsupplies.ca/unions-c-1_4_257.html

I afraid it will be problem if you glued all already. you do not have enough space to put flex or you should move pump back.

why in the world would you waste money on the expensive valve on the intake of the pump, it must be always full open when running - get cheap ball valve from loves

check PM I sent you image

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## DamFish (Feb 9, 2012)

Feelin' the love Sig
Nothing is glued yet. That is why it is the slowest build ever. I am "Trying" not to make a mistake. And I thought it was only a waste of money when my wife finds out how much it cost
I am Checking your PM 
Thanks



sig said:


> it looks terrible. sorry but better you will know true today that will have problems tomorrow
> 
> you forgot union to disconnect pump from the tank and you need a union above the pump to take pump out for cleaning or repairs
> http://www.aquariumsupplies.ca/unions-c-1_4_257.html
> ...


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## DamFish (Feb 9, 2012)

Shoryureppa said:


> I would recommend adding a flex hose between the valve and the return pump to minimize the vibration of the pump and preventing it.
> 
> BTW, I hate looking for plumbing parts at lowes


Okay. I thought so. Finding a flex hose

And Lowes was actually great. First guy gave up in 2 mins and found the pro. As soon as he saw what I was doing he was grabbing parts and combos to get everything hooked up. Unfortunately I let him help someone else while I was trying to think of everything else I needed


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## darryl_v (Aug 26, 2011)

Sig is right...you really should have went with true union ball valves on the input and output.


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## DamFish (Feb 9, 2012)

darryl_v said:


> Sig is right...you really should have went with true union ball valves on the input and output.


He very right and the dumbest part is I have 4 of them sitting here. But Now I am afraid to show them as they are more expensive than the Gate valve in the picture and Sig might yell at me again for wasting money


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

get this one for the intake - it will save you place also. with this you do not need a valve and a union, but a union you will need on the output. I also have valve on the output and use it when i am stopping the pump. Even do not think to install gate valve on the output line. The line should be shut very fast, to prevent back drainage in case you do not have back flow preventor (which I hate personally)

do not forget that our sumps are in the basement and we do not have a time to run upstairs in case of something going wrong...

http://www.lowes.ca/valves/american...isku=8789771&linkloc=cataLogProductItemsImage

http://www.lowes.ca/valves/american...isku=8781400&linkloc=cataLogProductItemsImage

will send you email, but just in case here is from my old set up



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## TypeZERO (Jul 20, 2007)

Yea, i dont think you should restrict the inlet end, restricting the outlet end is okay.


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## Flexin5 (Nov 12, 2011)

just a check valve or a regular valve before the pump, and a union after the pump and i think your good. 

i'm on my like....4th lowes run..LOL i finally got the last coupling from NAFB today to finish my plumbing. you can never get it on the first try.haha


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## DamFish (Feb 9, 2012)

Okay. What is better, two 45's or one 90? I don't care if two cost more than one. I just want the best return volume. 
I have lots of all the fittings so I can return the extras to Lowes.


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

DamFish said:


> Okay. What is better, two 45's or one 90? I don't care if two cost more than one. I just want the best return volume.
> I have lots of all the fittings so I can return the extras to Lowes.


I do not get this question  - 45 Smith & Wesson is the best 

2 45s is better

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## DamFish (Feb 9, 2012)

sig said:


> I do not get this question  - 45 Smith & Wesson is the best
> 
> 2 45s is better


I will use the Smith & Wesson on myself if the water isn't flowing by tomorrow.
I am comparing the flow between two 45 degree elbows and one 90 degree elbow

I just checked the Reef central head loss calculator and found one 90 is actually better than two 45's. Minimally but better 759 GPH vs 761 GPH one my configuration and it saves the cost of one elbow. Now I am cheap


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

DamFish said:


> I will use the Smith & Wesson on myself if the water isn't flowing by tomorrow.
> I am comparing the flow between two 45 degree elbows and one 90 degree elbow
> 
> I just checked the Reef central head loss calculator and found one 90 is actually better than two 45's. Minimally but better 759 GPH vs 761 GPH one my configuration and it saves the cost of one elbow. Now I am cheap


I doubt it. 
2 45s glued together make 1 90. I was assuming you asked this question, but if you are running offset of 2 45s this is different story.

since you decided to use rigid line, instead of flex, expect big GPH loses

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## Flexin5 (Nov 12, 2011)

i thought that 2 45's were better than 1 90? i did 2x45's where space allowed.


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## DamFish (Feb 9, 2012)

Flexin5 said:


> i thought that 2 45's were better than 1 90? i did 2x45's where space allowed.


That's what I thought too, but when I entered six 90's vs twelve 45's and even at 1 to 2 the 90's both won.


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## DamFish (Feb 9, 2012)

I hope I have it right this time. 
I added an extra Union above and below the check valve so it can be easily changed too. 
Union Ball valve between tank and pump. Also a spa flex in there as well. 
A gate valve on either side of the T above the pump. Running left back into the sump and right to the DT. 
Two glasses of wine makes me think I am right. Let me know.


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## DamFish (Feb 9, 2012)

Doh
I put the check Valve in the wrong spot.
It needs to be on the right side of the right Gate valve


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## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

I would put another TUBV (True Union Ball Valve) on the output of the pump. This will 100% "isolate" the pump for servicing. Check valves soon will overtime build up with crud on seating surfaces will not seal properly.

If one must use one, you are better off getting the clear and "unioned" for inspection and serviceability. The "Wye" version is the most reliable and easiest to service. Put a TUBV on the "out" end of the check valve to isolate the check valve for servicing.

I think the check valve you have is installed the wrong way. Double check the arrow for direction of water flow on the housing...I could be wrong.

JME


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

DamFish said:


> Doh
> I put the check Valve in the wrong spot.
> It needs to be on the right side of the right Gate valve


it is because you did not finish glass of wine before doing it 

did you put it in correct way? there should be arrow sign to point you how to install it.

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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

can we have another picture, which shows front of the pump. I somehow suspicious about connections there

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## DamFish (Feb 9, 2012)

Made the check valve change and finished the glass of wine and most of this glass too








Can I start gluing tomorrow?


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## DamFish (Feb 9, 2012)

sig said:


> can we have another picture, which shows front of the pump. I somehow suspicious about connections there


As requested. Am I in trouble for the 90 degree elbow into the pump? 
There will be gear clamps on those joints.


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## nfamusic (Dec 19, 2012)

if it were me I'd make the joints look good and proper and also less of a chance to leak
You're doing all this work to make it right, make it look pro too
Also is the pump going to be sitting on blocks of wood till the end of time?
just my 2cents
one last thing...shouldn't the shut off (for the pump outlet) be right after the union ??? 
if you ever have to service the pump you will have minual water everywhere


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

Dave,

This 90 on the top is terrible. The flow just will hit the wall, will try to go left, finally will go right and it will create huge turbulence in this place, which will cost in big loses in flow!

*Do not glue anything. looks like I should visit you on Sunday morning. *

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## DamFish (Feb 9, 2012)

sig said:


> can we have another picture, which shows front of the pump. I somehow suspicious about connections there












There's the pic that didn't upload last night.

Greg, You are welcome to visit anytime but I will keep working the dry fit to hopefully get it right sooner


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## DamFish (Feb 9, 2012)

nfamusic said:


> if it were me I'd make the joints look good and proper and also less of a chance to leak
> You're doing all this work to make it right, make it look pro too
> Also is the pump going to be sitting on blocks of wood till the end of time?
> just my 2cents
> ...


I agree. The joints are out of alignment now as most lengths are cut long for adjustment 
As for the shut off. Won't gravity drop the water to the tank level if the shut off is close to the tank and open to the sump? Then I can shut the ball and only have a few inches of water above the pump


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## DamFish (Feb 9, 2012)

sig said:


> Dave,
> 
> This 90 on the top is terrible. The flow just will hit the wall, will try to go left, finally will go right and it will create huge turbulence in this place, which will cost in big loses in flow!
> 
> *Do not glue anything. looks like I should visit you on Sunday morning. *


Greg, again you are right. I will change the configuration. 
More pics to come


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## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

DamFish said:


> There's the pic that didn't upload last night.
> 
> Greg, You are welcome to visit anytime but I will keep working the dry fit to hopefully get it right sooner


You will have some flow loss at the pump intake: FPT-Barbed fitting inserted into SpaFlex.

Ideally it should be a straight run into the pump but if it must be aligned that way, this plumbing arrangement I recommend as not to throw off the return line alignment too much:

Pump Intake - threaded elbow - male adapter - SpaFlex


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## DamFish (Feb 9, 2012)

The T joint has been moved to improve the flow. Thank you Sig
The upper joints have been straightened as I think I am getting close. Now i wait to see what everyone else thinks.

What is the concern with a wood stand for the pump?

Thanks all for your guidance


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## DamFish (Feb 9, 2012)

wtac said:


> You will have some flow loss at the pump intake: FPT-Barbed fitting inserted into SpaFlex.
> 
> Ideally it should be a straight run into the pump but if it must be aligned that way, this plumbing arrangement I recommend as not to throw off the return line alignment too much:
> 
> Pump Intake - threaded elbow - male adapter - SpaFlex


The good part of my intake side is everything is 1" up to the pump itself which is 3/4" so I should get good flow. 
I plan to move that when I build the water change and top off tables. Unfortunately right now I have to get this set up as my skimmer has been down for 3 weeks and corals are looking very unhappy.


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

now I can visit when all will be running. you made it correct finally, just try to figure out if you can make pump <> intake straight in line. Put under legs of the pump pieces of the thin rubber/whatever (I made them from the mouse pad)

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## DamFish (Feb 9, 2012)

All has been glued. The sump is 3/4 full and I have the salt coming up with heaters and pumps running. Tomorrow I will start the pump and just circulate everything through the sump while I hook up the tank to the sump lines.

Greg, you will be happy that I used spa flex from the floor to the tank and back to the floor. Saved me two elbows and the colour of the flex blends in better than the ugly white Sch 40.

The new question is moving the old sump sand. I currently have a 5" sand bed in the old under tank sump. Will I set off a bomb when I start digging the sand up? Should I flush the old sand as i move it? I plan to siphon off as much as I can to transfer the pods and critters that are in there too.

Am I asking for trouble? Will I have any cycle with the new sump sand I will be adding or is it okay as long as I add the new sand over weeks.


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## J_T (Mar 25, 2011)

Did you use pvc glue on the spa flex? If so, it can, and likely will fail if wiggled. JJdowns has the right glue. Nice thing is, the glue is clear, so is the primer. No messy purple blotches.

Posted with my Xperia, using Tapatalk 2


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## DamFish (Feb 9, 2012)

*The good news is it is up and PUMPING.*



J_T said:


> Did you use pvc glue on the spa flex? If so, it can, and likely will fail if wiggled. JJdowns has the right glue. Nice thing is, the glue is clear, so is the primer. No messy purple blotches.
> 
> Posted with my Xperia, using Tapatalk 2


 Uh-oh I asked at the store and was assured that the purple primer and the grey glue were the best for the job. Time will tell. NO LEAKS for now, Knock wood

I have been up since 4 AM starting with bucket water changes between the sump and the DT to make the shock easier on all the little critters. I am going to sleep so well tonight after so many trips up and down the stairs but it is worth it as I now know the weekly 5 gallon bucket carry is a thing of the past.

The good news is it is up and PUMPING.  The F'ing Fluval system is the worst thing to deal with due to it's apparently metric parts and stupid custom over sized lock line connection on the return. 
The great news is the drain can handle twice as much as I have been pumping for the past 3 years and probably more.  I will find out after I get the overflow box and a mandatory Durso drain put together because the current drain noise is out of control at anything close to full flow. For to night I have it backed off for my wife's sanity and my well being.

THANK YOU Sig and everyone else for your guidance  The corals and the critters are doing a the Happy Dance as they finally have a serious water change and nice new Euro Reef protien skimmer humming


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

Time to start thinking about replacing tank :d:d

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