# How many nerites for a 41 gallon?



## NuclearTech (Mar 23, 2008)

Opinions please.

I have a nearly cycled 41 gallon, going through all of those new tank syndrome issues. Currently I am seeing quite a bit of brown algae on the glass, substrate, and some plants. 

I estimate that the filters will be fully cycled in about 1 week. One of the first things to go in will be some creatures on algae detail. I've been contemplating nerite snails. The tank will eventually hold 4 pearlscale angels and 2 electric blue rams. 

How many nerites would you recommend for said tank to do a reasonably responsible algae clean up? Let me know if you need more info.


----------



## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

NuclearTech said:


> Opinions please.
> 
> I have a nearly cycled 41 gallon, going through all of those new tank syndrome issues. Currently I am seeing quite a bit of brown algae on the glass, substrate, and some plants.
> 
> ...


20 Zebra Nerites, 20-40 amano shrimp, 1 pair bushynose plecos (Angels do NOT eat amano shrimp, especially if they're raised together).


----------



## bae (May 11, 2007)

I had good results with four zebra nerites in a 30 gallon tank full of rocks and a fair lot of jungle val and floating plants. How much algae you need to get eaten is a function of light intensity, competition from plants, fish load, amount of feeding, frequency and amount of water changes, etc.

I'd start with a small number of nerites and let them work for a while to see what the tank looks like when it reaches a steady state. If they aren't doing an adequate job, get a few more snails. A pair of bushynose plecos will clean up more algae than quite a lot of snails, so you'll have feed them too.

So-called brown algae, which is usually diatoms, which are technically golden-brown algae (who cares?) are common under lower light conditions and in newly set up tanks. Once the plants grow in and things settle down you'll see a lot less of it.

Btw, nerites like to spend some of their time out of the water, so be sure they can't crawl right out of the tank.


----------



## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

I should mention the amount of stuff I suggested was more for coolness than function. It is an overkill factor of four or more. Obviously, you have to feed all this stuff. I've never fed any algae crew member just algae. They do their part but all my shrimp snails and plecos have always gotten massive amounts of frozen and pelleted food. Algae is perhaps 30-40% at most of their diet.

If you want to reduce algae all you really need to do is interrupt your photo period at least once in the day. Run your light timer, say, 9am-1pm, 1:30pm-6pm. Plants can deal with interrupted photo periods, algae doesn't like it. Without a constant light source all day algae will be much less prevalent.

having said all that-- am I the only person who likes algae? I encourage it and like it to cover as much stuff as possible. It encourages massive biodiversity.


----------



## NuclearTech (Mar 23, 2008)

Hey thanks for the replies so far  .

My feeling is that I don't want too much more on my bioload for this tank. BN's are out (as cool as they are...). I would LOVE to have shrimp, but the angels are already twoonie size in body, and I fear that they would be a yummy snack at this point. Perhaps, as Aquariam suggested, if they had been raised earlier together...

In terms of having to feed the nerites later on, I would rather keep just enough of them so that they always have some yummy algae to munch on. I agree that the diatoms will eventually pass, but there should always be something going on for them. If I put too may in the tank to start off, yes I will get rid of the algae faster, but then I will be forced to provide external food for them later...I'd like to avoid too much of that if I can.

I've read that nerites leave the tank when they run out of food (which makes ecological sense to me). Do they really leave when there's still lots of food?

So what about 4 or so to start? Thank you Bae for the real life example. 
That helped a lot.

Aquariam, I don't dislike algae, a little bit in moderation is fine with me. I support biodiversity within the context of stability whenever I can figure it out.


----------



## bae (May 11, 2007)

AquariAM said:


> having said all that-- am I the only person who likes algae? I encourage it and like it to cover as much stuff as possible. It encourages massive biodiversity.


Algae can be good stuff as part of the biocover (aufwuchs). I don't mind some in the tank, but I don't want it to coat the leaves of plants and kill them, or block my view of the fish by coating the glass. I've got some kind of filamentous algae right now that makes nice wads, perhaps a relative of the 'moss ball' algae Cladophora. It's great stuff in a grow out tank for sucking up pollutants.

It's all a matter of balance, and what looks good to you. I've never had to go far out of my way to combat algae, but I don't do high-light high-tech tanks. The original poster has a new tank, and it will take a while to settle down.

AquariAM, if you want some of this pseudo-moss-ball stuff, let me know.


----------



## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

bae said:


> Algae can be good stuff as part of the biocover (aufwuchs). I don't mind some in the tank, but I don't want it to coat the leaves of plants and kill them, or block my view of the fish by coating the glass. I've got some kind of filamentous algae right now that makes nice wads, perhaps a relative of the 'moss ball' algae Cladophora. It's great stuff in a grow out tank for sucking up pollutants.
> 
> It's all a matter of balance, and what looks good to you. I've never had to go far out of my way to combat algae, but I don't do high-light high-tech tanks. The original poster has a new tank, and it will take a while to settle down.
> 
> AquariAM, if you want some of this pseudo-moss-ball stuff, let me know.


Do you have a picture? Definitely interested if we can transtport it submerged somehow on it's surface... 

I grow algae better than I grow plants.


----------



## bae (May 11, 2007)

AquariAM said:


> Do you have a picture? Definitely interested if we can transtport it submerged somehow on it's surface...
> 
> I grow algae better than I grow plants.


Unfortunately, I've got a cheap camera that is pretty useless for close ups.

It looks like a poorly-organized moss ball. Maybe if I didn't keep hassling it it would grow more spherically. It doesn't grow on anything, just in wads. If you look at individual bits, it has a pretty branching structure of fibers about the thickness of a fine hair.

If you want to come get some, I'm downtown. I'll probably be at the next TWAS meeting. Otherwise, I suppose I could mail you a baggie full when the weather warms up some more. It doesn't mind being hauled out of the water and dropped back in, although this abuse may be one reason it hasn't made nice spheres for me, although it may not be capable of that even under ideal conditions.

This offer applies to everybody else, too. I disclaim all responsibility if it takes over your tank and clogs up all your plants.


----------



## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Just wondering Bae, does it float or does it sink? Years ago my father had a type of filamentous algae that floated in mats in a shape like a flattened disorganized moss ball.

As for nerites, personally. I like to only keep one per tank, as I hate their eggs sticking to everything.


----------



## Fishfinder (Feb 17, 2008)

my 3 nerites go above the water line quite a bit, even upsidedown on the glass canopy lol And there is plently of algae for them, so i would have to say yes to them going out of the water even with food around. They leave funny snail trails on the glass


----------



## NuclearTech (Mar 23, 2008)

Fishfinder said:


> my 3 nerites go above the water line quite a bit, even upsidedown on the glass canopy lol And there is plently of algae for them, so i would have to say yes to them going out of the water even with food around. They leave funny snail trails on the glass


Hrmmm, well that may pose a problem for me as I have an open top tank. No plans to close it off. Any other things that won't put a strain on my bioload but do a good job of cleaning and DON'T reproduce in the gazillions to take over the tank?


----------



## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Apple snails would be a good candidate as the egg clutches are laid above the water line - you just have to spot them and remove them (which is very easy to do).

edit - and as a bonus, I think E-J is selling them, and I think she's quite close to you.


----------



## bae (May 11, 2007)

ameekplec. said:


> Just wondering Bae, does it float or does it sink? Years ago my father had a type of filamentous algae that floated in mats in a shape like a flattened disorganized moss ball.
> 
> As for nerites, personally. I like to only keep one per tank, as I hate their eggs sticking to everything.


It sort of floats, or hovers. It traps the oxygen bubbles it makes under even quite moderate light and that makes it more buoyant.

Nerite eggs are kind of conspicuous on wood, but mine were laying on grayish limestone the same color, more or less, as the eggs, so they were less apparent.

IME, nerites just like to spend time out of the water. They cleaned all the algae off the underside of my wooden hood and seemed to like to sleep up there in the daytime sometimes. IIRC, they are native to mangrove swamps and normally crawl out and back in again. There might be some predator avoidance involved.

I second the recommendation of an apple snail if you want to be sure to have something that doesn't multiply. They do need a source of calcium, though, or their shells will erode, which will eventually kill them.


----------



## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

bae said:


> It sort of floats, or hovers. It traps the oxygen bubbles it makes under even quite moderate light and that makes it more buoyant.
> 
> Nerite eggs are kind of conspicuous on wood, but mine were laying on grayish limestone the same color, more or less, as the eggs, so they were less apparent.
> 
> ...


Large amounts of filamentous algae are a source of calcium as is plant material.

Nerites can not reproduce without brackish water.


----------



## bae (May 11, 2007)

AquariAM said:


> Large amounts of filamentous algae are a source of calcium as is plant material.
> 
> Nerites can not reproduce without brackish water.


Apple snails have large thick shells and really do need calcium supplements. What they get from food isn't enough unless they have soft calcareous rocks or a calcareous substrate, as well as water above neutral in pH.

While some filamentous algae have calcareous coatings, not all do. I don't know if snails will eat filamentous algae. AFAICT, mine don't, and googling for info about Cladophora concurs.

While nerites can't reproduce successfully without brackish water, as well as some other conditions that aren't entirely known, that doesn't stop them from laying lots of eggs in fresh water, even if the eggs don't hatch. Some people find these eggs ugly.


----------



## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

bae said:


> Apple snails have large thick shells and really do need calcium supplements. What they get from food isn't enough unless they have soft calcareous rocks or a calcareous substrate, as well as water above neutral in pH.
> 
> While some filamentous algae have calcareous coatings, not all do. I don't know if snails will eat filamentous algae. AFAICT, mine don't, and googling for info about Cladophora concurs.
> 
> While nerites can't reproduce successfully without brackish water, as well as some other conditions that aren't entirely known, that doesn't stop them from laying lots of eggs in fresh water, even if the eggs don't hatch. Some people find these eggs ugly.


My old canaliculata used to inhale filamentous algae. His shell was perfect and grew about 3 or 4mm per day. His staple food was tetramin bottomin which is skim-milk based so he didn't need any shell supplementation through the water. I''ve kept bridgesii as well and they too grow perfect shells this way. I have not had success getting perfect nerite shells with this method however. It does work on amano shrimp.
Again though, I'd notice massive shell growth when, for example, I fed the cana a bunch of dark green giant hygro, so they can definitely extract calcium citrate from plant material.


----------

