# fish and cloudy tank issues?



## Sugar (Jun 26, 2012)

So Im out in the country and on cistern water, we've had issues with yellow and foul smell so I've been using RO water. My tank has been cycled since June 2012 and I haven't had any issues till now.

I can't seem to get the cloudy water clear! My last water change I took it down 1/2 way. It's a 25gal with 2-Blk Moore's, 1-Bubble Cap and 1-Panda.

It seemed to look a bit better after water change then went really milky 2days later. I have an Aqua Clear 50 on tank and just added the Aqua Clear 50 powerhead filter.

I've also tried Prime with no luck and also tried Aqua plus...no luck!

I feed twice a day but minimal amounts. They'll only eat the Terramin crisps. 

I also just noticed my Panda is missing scales on both sides, all the others are fine. None have shown signs of parasite or infection. No flashing, fins are great, no spots, all are eating as normal.

Water tested all good, Will try and retest in a few days.

Thanks in advance to all that have a clue here...Im baffled


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## Y2KGT (Jul 20, 2009)

You mentioned using RO water for water changes. Do you add anything to the water such as RO Right? If not your water will have no minerals in it.

How often do you clean your filter and how do you clean it? Do you squeeze the sponge in old tank water or replace it completely? What media do you have in your filter?

When you do a water change do you gravel vacuum as well? If so do you push the gravel tube all the way down in the gravel? Goldfish are extremely messy and generate a lot of waste.
--
Paul


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## Sugar (Jun 26, 2012)

Thanks for the reply

Im not adding anything to the water, just been using prime. I do get a weird build up of white chalk-lime stuff all over tank canopy and where the bubbles pop from air stone. This use to be a weird pink color.

When my guys were smaller the filter was only rinsed every other water change. The sponge just squeezed out, ammo-carbon replaced every 3rd change and bio max only rinsed if they were scumy. Sponge completely changed 2times since June. I had some weird black scum thru filter, then sponge turned a bright purple color (again, I've never seen this either)

Yes I have vacuum and dig right into the stone getting as much crap as possible. I use a small siphon so I get more waste and less water without roughing up the water too much.

I thought maybe a bacterial bloom so I treated with 500mg Metrodiazole, now treating the open scales with Malafix 

I've had Marine tanks for years and had less issues with them, then Im having with this fresh water tank!


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## Sugar (Jun 26, 2012)

I should also mention, my tank was set up with the cistern water and was used till I added the last two fish in August. Didn't like the looks of the yellow water and we had to douse cistern with bleach. It had a sulphur smell and I wasn't comfortable using it in my aquarium.

I was adding 2 tbs aquarium salt, was told the white and purple build up was the salt and food (not sure about that Theory) so I didn't add it for a month and still was getting that white stuff. I just started adding it with water change a few days ago.

I've also used garlic to soak food in to maintain optimal health.


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## Y2KGT (Jul 20, 2009)

I wouldn't add any more Metro or Melafix to the tank. If you're using RO water you shouldn't need to use any Prime or Aqua Plus. These are dechlorinators for use with regular tap water. You should be using a product such as RO Right to replenish the minerals removed during the RO process.

I would recommend you add filter floss to your filter. It'll remove the finer particles in the water that a sponge filter can't deal with. You can then just through it out on a weekly/bi-weekly basis. I wouldn't throw out any sponge filter unless its falling apart. I've been using the same sponges in my Aquaclear filters for years. Just give them a speaze in old tank water and put them back into the filter.

The salt will leave a white residue and so will hard water deposits. Not sure what the pink stuff is though.
--
Paul


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## Sugar (Jun 26, 2012)

I was using the Prime more for the ammonia, Nitrate and Nitrate control. Was using 1/2 dose.

I did do another water test today a was absolutely shocked on the test results! Everything spiked within days! And my Ph wasn't even registering on the low range test.

My Black Moores are now losing scales and the biggest one started flashing this morning.

I did a 25% water change and used my tap water, then added some Ph buffer (only had the 6.5 one on hand) Better then what it was I guess.

The only thing I had done different, was added my live pond plants. Could this have been my root issue here? The plants were covered in hair algae, I pulled what I could off them before adding to tank. What I didn't get my fish ate...and then some lol. They ate the roots too!! Wondering of I missed some plant matter and it decayed? Or maybe the plants in general? I really don't know what went wrong here, tank has been 100% up till this problem.

ETA: yes I did actually wrap my powerhead with filter floss when I added it to tank last week. I didn't have a clean insert for it after I took it from pond. And yes, I cleaned that inside out before putting into my aquarium.

also, you said to stop using Meds for now. Wouldn't the Melafix help with the scale loss and being open to infection?


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

Just to toss it out there, the level spikes make me wonder if you are cycling again due to all the BB being killed somehow. This happened to another person recently and it was all because his mother used his aquarium cleaning sponge to clean a sink with detergent.

the levels being off are most likey damaging the fish

A few parts of your post had me saying huh?

I hope my post gets you thinking about what may have killed off your BB.


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## Sugar (Jun 26, 2012)

This tank is making me say huh lol

Im pretty careful with my tank supplies. I have a bucket just for my tank and the RO bottles are rinsed with water before they are refilled.

I have a tank magnet that doesn't leave the tank for the glass.

I've been having to take filter apart and quick rinse as I was finding some weird black slime through out it. The bio Max was only rinsed if the bag had that slime, other then that is was left alone. Sponge replaced once due to that pink Color as I had no clue what it was. 

My feedings were reduced over 2 months ago when I vaccuumed the tank and sucked out a more wasted food then I should have. With this going on Ive been feeding 4 med sized fish 2 algae waffers and dropped the crisp waffers. I found less waste when I did water change yesterday and they like them. 

It's a possibility that it's going through a recycle, just not sure why as I haven't done anything different during my water changes, no new added fish as these 4 are growing faster then I thought they would, 

I can't tear filter apart for a few days. Christmas stuff ugh, but Will be doing another partial change Wednesday and will take pics of the pink sponge.

I just don't want to lose Benny and Booger (blk Moores) I bought them sick and got them better when the store lost their whole tank of them. They weren't even quarter sized (with fins) back then and now they are bigger then a silver dollar (body size not including fins) So any suggestions on what to do now would be appreciated...this just sucks!


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## Y2KGT (Jul 20, 2009)

Sugar said:


> I was using the Prime more for the ammonia, Nitrate and Nitrate control. Was using 1/2 dose.
> 
> I did do another water test today a was absolutely shocked on the test results! Everything spiked within days! And my Ph wasn't even registering on the low range test.
> 
> ...


If your tank is cycled there should be no measurable Ammonia or Nitrite unless there is a problem with the filter or a dead fish or lots of organics in your tank.

The reason your PH is crashing is probably due to the lack of minerals in the water and therefore no buffering capacity. Adding the PH buffer should help but I would use it every time you do a water change. Add it to the new water before you add it to the tank. You can use a home made recipe that lots of people keeping cichlids use and that's salt water tank salt, Epsom Salt and Baking Soda. Just Google Rift Lake salt recipe for more details.

Unless you see red on their bodies or fungus I wouldn't worry about infection. I have a tank full of Tropheus that beat the crap out of each other every day and I find scales when doin my water changes as a result. Because the water is always top notch there is never any problem with infection.

Keep working on getting the water in perfect condition through water changes and get the chemistry right and you should be OK.
--
Paul


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## Sugar (Jun 26, 2012)

Thanks a bunch 

Im heading back home after Christmas and will grab my Marine salt and hit shoppers for some Epson salts and try that mixture.

No red spots on my fish and no red lines visible (on Panda or red bubble cap) blk ones couldn't see if there was lol 
Fins so far are still looking good, biggest blk Moore has slight fray on one fin. Hopefully I caught all this in time! Those master test kits are lovely to have on hand.


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## Tbird (Oct 5, 2009)

Paul had some great suggestions so I hope that they help. 

A couple things, I don't remember you saying if you used old tank water when you rinsed the sponges and bio. Before this happened, did you rinse or change both?? Also, with the pink was that in the tank or just the filter sponge? I had that issue once that I noticed in my AC 70's and it was a food that I would feed once in awhile that caused my sponges to change colour. I can't remember the name of it but I wonder if you changed your food?

Gpod luck with getting your tank sorted out! Please keep us posted!


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

If you have kids, or parents around, that may have done something. Maybe you cleaned the glass with a new cleaner and some got in the tank to kill the BB. Maybe a cat jumped up and got something in the water. Did you maybe use something like lysol spray in the same room?

If you can figure out the root cause, you can help prevent the same in the future.


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## Sugar (Jun 26, 2012)

Tbird, I have not changed routine on maintenance. I fully cleaned sponge on last water change and replaced the amo carb thinking it was a filter problem. I don't rims sponge unless ot had that black gunk all over it.

The pink was/in the sponge as well as a build up on the tank..kind pf reminded me of the white salt residue my Marine tanks had...but pink and not salty.

Yes, Paul had great info and Will be sure using his advise and suggestions.


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## Sugar (Jun 26, 2012)

pyrrolin said:


> If you have kids, or parents around, that may have done something. Maybe you cleaned the glass with a new cleaner and some got in the tank to kill the BB. Maybe a cat jumped up and got something in the water. Did you maybe use something like lysol spray in the same room?
> 
> If you can figure out the root cause, you can help prevent the same in the future.


Nope, no kids youngster enuff to mess with my tank. I have a 19yro and I do not live with parents. My Bf wants to learn tank maintenance but doesn't touch tank with my guidance.

I only use the tank water to clean glass front...

Of you must use something, use vinegar/water in a clean/new spray bottle..but be careful on over spray! News paper works well too!

Im not sure I'll ever know what happened here as I haven't done anything different except add the pond plants and decreased feed amount.

I retested water today, readings still suck but came down slightly...it's a start I guess! I also checked phosphate and its high as well. I did another 10% water change tonight and added Sea Chem's Stability...hope this wasn't a mistake!

My fish are now refusing food (yes I've been pulling it out) and they are gasping. If they live this, I'll be shocked!!


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

Your best bet is to get some used media from someone ASAP, this can fix your cycle in a matter of days.

Let people know your general location and I'm sure someone will be able to help.

Things sound bad and im sure you are going to have at least a few deaths, your best chance to save some fish is used media. I am in kingston myself if you happen to be nearby.


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## Sugar (Jun 26, 2012)

Im in the out skirts Niagara, Caistor centre. Hopefully in the mean time the stability works until I can get media. Bad time for this as this is such a busy time for everyome.

Im also going to try and keep lights off today. My blk Moores stress with no light but Im ready to try anything at this point!!


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## Sugar (Jun 26, 2012)

*Test results and Tank follow up*

Not out of the clear yet but doing pretty darn good!!

I knew I purchased the Panda for a reason and kept him even though he started losing his black markings! He is the one I'm really watching as he is easy to spot an issue. First was missing scales, seccond was red lines in fins yesterday. They are all eating and very active now 

My test results for the last few days...

first test everything was good

Dec, 23rd
Ammonia(NH3).....3.7+ 
Nitrite(NO2).........1.6
Nitrate(NO3)........50
Ph...............no reading on low range test

Dec 24th
NH3...........1.2
NO2...........0.8-1.6 (color was between these two)
NO3...........30-40
Ph..............6.0
Phosphate(PO4)....2.50

Dec 26th
NH3...........0.3
NO2...........0.2
NO3...........10
Ph..............6.0
PO4...........2.50

I have been doing 10-20% daily water changes since I've noticed an issue. Also started using my tap water for now. Test reading on tap water was 6.5Ph, 0 PO4, 0 NO2, 0 NO3

Since I couldn't get used media, I started with the Sea Chem Stability (good thing I had this on hand) This removes Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate and adds BB into the system. First dose was double, then 5mls per day for a week.

My water no longer looks like milk and I can actually see the back-drop on the tank now. It's not crystal clear yet but it's looking great 

My fish are still flashing but not consistently now. They are back to bagging for food and eating. Not gasping for air and are very active. My smallest Black Moore still isn't 100%%, seems to have hit him the hardest.

I did a 20% water change last night and will test water in a bit and post those results. I took out 10%, treated tap water, added to tank...then took another 10%, treated tap water then topped up tank...added 5ml Stability.
^
This has been my routine for the last 5 days

I have to get out today so I'll be picking up some Baking Soda to get that Ph up more. Once I get back to Sarnia this week, I'll get my Marine Salt from parents and pick up Epsome salts and try that mix that Paul posted up.


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## Sugar (Jun 26, 2012)

Just a few pics from this morning.


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## Sugar (Jun 26, 2012)

And the result of baking soda..other then slight increase in Ph

eta: the pics below is how my tank looked this morning. That wasn't from rock replacement.

I also forgot I had used stone so I took out the brown rock and replaced with the smaller white stone. I think this is the pink problem and the problem of what's going on in my tank.

It's to big of stone and its holding onto the waste...even with vacuum. I found some plant matter and lots of rock debris. The rock is shedding its color.

sent hubby out for ph up and phosphate remover. The phosphate is still rising but ammonia is zero, nitrate 10, nitrite 0.3, phosphate now at 5.00


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

at least you found the source of the problem it seems


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