# Dinoflagellates - Need experienced advice



## Dax (Sep 29, 2010)

Well, here's a new crappy problem I'd never heard of in the past 2 years. I was out of town for a couple of weeks and came back to what I am now sure is dino. It is brown, stringy and accumulates bubbles; but no snail die off as of yet. My nitrates are high (~100), ph is 8.1, and don't have a phosphate reading. The tank(120gal) is over a year old which was upgraded from a 65gal, which was also a year old. Everything in the tank looks fine (same) except for this dino.

After much reading I tried lights off (2 days) and they disappeared only to appear back after a few hours of lights on. I am running the skimmer aggressively and increased the GAC usage.

At this point it is not "full blown" so I need a plan. I'd like to black out the tank for a week, but not sure how to handle the fish and few corals that I have. I do have my old 65 gal kicking around so moving the fish might be an option but not sure how to start it up because I won't be able to move the live rock (bio-filter) since this is where the problem resides.


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## Kooka (Feb 8, 2011)

Dax said:


> My nitrates are high (~100)


You answered your own question right there. Good luck on lowering those nitrates.

Things you could do: reduce feedings, frequent water changes (at least once per week 10-25%), setup a refugium for nutrient export.


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## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

It's going to be a process to get NO3 down and there are a few options.

IMHO, the one thing you have to keep in mind, as you already know, there is NO3 "trapped" the LR. Water changes will dilute what's in the water but eventually it will leach out from the LR and NO3 will be back up again. 

I look as it the "tea bag effect". Think of the LR as a tea bag and the tannins as NO3/PO4. Change half of the water and eventually the water will darken a bit. Over time, the teabag won't color up the water as much. It'll take time for NO3/PO4 to leach out.

Since you don't have much coral, you have to make a decision:
1) Go slow if you like the pieces that you have.
A macro algae based refugium is simple to do and one can't really mess it up nor can one "mess up" corals and fish if you get impatient in the process. Unfortunately it takes-up a bit of space but long term, it's less of a hassle as all you need to do is harvest the macro algae. 

Algal turf scrubbers work well but I haven't tinkered with one in YEARS. There are plans on RC if you are DIY inclined.

2) Aggressive but I suggest that you move the coral to another system.
I prefer using sulphur reactors to control NO3 but I suggest the effluent be run through a dolomite secondary reactor as the effluent is acidic. The dolomite will buffer the effluent up to ~pH7.8 and you get Ca, Mg and some alk in the process. 

Biopellets (BP), VSV (vodka, sugar and vinegar) on a dosing system. They will have a degree of PO4 uptake into the bacterial biomass. You have to start off slowly with the amount of BP/VSV and slowly increase or your fish will have issues.

Always test to track changes and adjust accordingly. Sometimes you may require a PO4 reactor.

Of all methods that I have used, I prefer method 1) if space permits. It's just far less fiddleing and adjusting than 2).

JM2C/E/HTH


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## Tristan (Aug 15, 2011)

From my understanding Dynoflagellates is a bacterial infestation in the tank. Its not really an algae and it can break out at anytime, the trigger isn't often known. 

Since its bacterial based you can use Erythromycin just follow the instructions on the pack. The only problem is you will have a major die off and will have to watch your system closely as you use the medication. 

I had to do this on my 16 gallon tank. Lights off for 4 days and ran the medication for 3 treatments. Its all gone now but I did lose some sps... 

hth


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## liz (Jan 16, 2008)

Nitra-Guard Bio-Cubes 
- works wonders - there is a thread on them over on AP and Oakville Reef Gallery sells them.

Here is a link about them.

http://www.orcalabs.co.za/?page_id=33


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## altcharacter (Jan 10, 2011)

I've seen the nitra-guard in the stores and alot of people are talking about that product. I'm pretty sure SUM sells it also


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## Dax (Sep 29, 2010)

Nitrates have been a battle the whole time (2years+) but this problem is new. I guess it was just a matter of time. To combat this I've tried a a deep sand bed, large water changes and less feeding. Nitrates are getting better but won't go away. I suppose this is a result of the "Tea bag" effect.

I tried a refugium before but didn't find it effective so I scrapped it. Maybe I can try again and the Nitra Guard stuff looks promising. Looks like I'll be swinging past SUM tomorrow.

Anyone in the North end of the city got some macro algae they can share?


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## JulieFish (Apr 8, 2011)

I've had small amounts of fern caulerpa and chaeto in my display tank from almost set up and my nitrate has always been undetectable. I just periodically trim the algaes and they seem to keep it under control. Just saying you don't necessarily need a separate refugium, although it is better in that it allows you to stagger the lights and avoid daily pH swings. Also I don't know if this is more of a prevention rather than a treatment.

I'm in Brampton, about 40 minutes from Woodbridge, but you're welcome to baggies of my macros if you want. They are about due for a trim anyway. If you find someone closer then go for it.


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## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

They do seem perform excellently and easily to use. The greater surface area for biofilm growth has hit the mark for me. 

Though I do use BP's, I dread the thought of setting up another BP system. I will be trying NG-BP this week for next for another "clean-up" project.

All in all, I do prefer a macroalgae refugium but conversely to what most ppl do, I use a higher flow rate about 5x refugium volume and I harvest 1/2 the biomass every 2 weeks. Lighting is also important...6500K and 5500K combo works well for me.

HTH


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## jd81 (Dec 16, 2011)

Dax said:


> Nitrates have been a battle the whole time (2years+) but this problem is new. I guess it was just a matter of time. To combat this I've tried a a deep sand bed, large water changes and less feeding. Nitrates are getting better but won't go away. I suppose this is a result of the "Tea bag" effect.
> 
> I tried a refugium before but didn't find it effective so I scrapped it. Maybe I can try again and the Nitra Guard stuff looks promising. Looks like I'll be swinging past SUM tomorrow.
> 
> Anyone in the North end of the city got some macro algae they can share?


I just trimmed yesterday, but I can give you a small ziploc bag of macro.

Bathurst/Major Mackenzie


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## Dax (Sep 29, 2010)

Got an in-tank fuge going and right now lights are out for a couple of days. Counterproductive I know but I think lights out will be more effective in the short term. I know the corals will be fine, but I'm not sure about the fish. I sealed up all the light sources so it's totally dark.


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## Dax (Sep 29, 2010)

*Dinos are gone*

In case it helps the next person, here's an update of the combination that worked for me:

- Added a canister filter (nitrate factory) with lots of floss that was changed every 3 to 4 days (see why next)
- Continuous manual removal. Blew it off or sucked it up with a baster. Used a toothbrush almost everyday to scrub glass, rock, corals ..
- Reduced flow by shutting off 1 powerhead overnight. Apparently dinos release and free float when there is lower flow. Cannot confirm or deny but I read it, so I tried it.
- Lots of carbon. Double the normal dose.
- Skimmer was at max, which gave 1 cup per day
- Added an intank refugium with macro algae
- Most important: Turned off lights for 2 to 3 days every week. Once it was 4 days. Not just off, but sealed the tank completely with only vents for gas exchange.

This took about 6 weeks. Lights out made the biggest difference. Every time lights came on they were back but noticeably less. I would have done a full week but was worried about the fish and coral. Everything was fine even after 4 days. Canister is now off, but the fuge stays. Just a note, the dinos were all over the macro algae to the point where it looked like they were attracted to them. I almost scrapped the fuge when this happened, but I decided to rinse the macro and stick with it. I did this every week.

I can't say why it started but don't think high nitrates were the main problem because they are still high. Still working on that


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## badmedicine (Oct 27, 2012)

Thanks for sharing your story!
This is a great example of why this forum is effective- great knowledge base and ppl wanting to help out(sharing part of their macro).


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

He needs sump. in-tank fuge for 120 is useless, since it can not hold enough of anything

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## Dax (Sep 29, 2010)

sig said:


> He needs sump. in-tank fuge for 120 is useless, since it can not hold enough of anything


I read that a properly functioning fuge should be AT LEAST 20% of the DT volume, but all the HOB ones people use are usually nowhere near this size. I tend to agree the in tank fuge is too small, but at least it lets me get some macro in there, so not completely useless.

I'd like a sump, I want a sump, but for now I don't need a sump, so we'll wait and see. One of these days I'll post pictures of my sumpless wonder and let you guys tell me what you think.


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