# Advice on starting another tank



## Dax (Sep 29, 2010)

It's been almost exactly one year as a saltie ... with reasonable success. The only problem I've had and still have is high nitrates. I tried everthing reasonable but it's still well over 100ppm and no hope in sight. I've pretty much given up because everthing in it is doing fine. I'd like to add some corals but can't with my current parameters.

Since i have another empty 60 gallon tank I figured on starting it up. Basically, I'd like to make the new tank a fish only (FOWLR) and the original more of a reef. This means I need to move most of the fish into the new tank and keep my existing anemone in the original. This is where the advice part comes in !!!

I have about 80 lbs of live rock and figure on splitting it up between the two while maybe adding a little more lace rock.

I'm leaning toward moving half the rock into the new tank along with half the water and some of the fish. Then I'd slowly add 10% new water every day for the first week to get the tanks back to 100%. I know the tanks are going to go through a new cycle but don't know how that might affect everthing. I'm also going to pickup some live sand for the new tank but not sure how/when to add it.

Starting up a new tank is not something you do every day so I'd like to get it right and not have the same problem i've been battling ( and losing) over the past year.


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## Flazky (Jan 9, 2010)

You would first need to cycle your new tank before adding any livestock or live rock in it. Set up your new tank, and dont touch the old tank until your new tank is ready. If you try to just put old water and liverock into a new tank, the cycle will stress your livestock if it doesnt kill them.

Do it the safe way. Dont be impatient. Fill your new tank with salt water, and then when you do your water changes for your old tank, just put it in your new tank. I would suggest removing the liverocks from your old tank to the new tank slowly, as the rock is one of your main filtration mechanisms. If you are having nitrate problems, it may be that your feeding too much or you should try using RO water if you arent already. 

If you think the new tank will be boring with nothing in it as it cycles, put some brine shrimp eggs in there!
Watch the tiny buggers swim away while you cycle!


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## Dax (Sep 29, 2010)

I'm good with going slowly. Right now I have about 10 gallons of RO water in the tank and today I'm going to pickup 100+ lbs of live sand. Let me know if I should alter anything from the following:

-I'm going to add salt in the tank right now and start the mixing with a powerhead and heater.
-Tomorrow I'm going to do a water change on the old tank (about 10 gallons) and add this to the new tank.
-After taking a little break I'll add the sand to the new tank.


The old tank water will be high in nitrates so I'm not sure if this will cause problems or not. I have some chaeto in the old tank so figured on putting some into the new tank in a net. Not sure if this will do anything or not. Also I 'm not too sure about adding the sand now vs later. I was also thinking about taking some sand from the old tank (maybe 1/2 inch) and putting it int he new tank.

I like the idea about the brine shrimp eggs. Where can I get some?


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## Flazky (Jan 9, 2010)

You can purchase the brine shrimp eggs from most stores like bigals. its like maybe 5-10 bucks for a vial of them (you only need 5ml spoon of them).

If your new tank is 60gals. I suggest you just fill it up till 50lbs so that will quicken the cycling. When you do the waterchange, just put the 10gal into the new tank. As for the nitrate problem, it shouldn't affect your new tank. As for your live sand, if you do end up putting some from your old tank to your new tank, with your already elevated nitrates, disturbing the sand bed may cause harm to your livestock as a lot of nitrates and ammonia are trapped in your sandbed. Just be cautious and dont disturb it too much. 

dont put the cheato in the new tank yet as you are cycling it. please correct me if im wrong, but if you put cheato in there, it will soak up the nitrates and the cycling will not be a "full" cycle. Wait until your cycle is over and then place the cheato in your tank.

I forgot to ask before but what is your entire equipment list for your new tank and old tank? Sump, protein skimmer, lights, powerheads etc....It will help to know these details. Also do you have a RO unit or are you getting it from the fishstores?


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Turf your old rock. It's going to have soaked up a lot of nitrates and phosphates. 

Also, is this "live sand" from a old tank? If so, forget about it. It'll just be a further cause of failure of your new tank.

Start with either new live rock (or dry rock), or cook your rock until it gives off no nitrates and phosphates. Start with clean new sand so it isn't choked with crap.

There's always a reason nitrates/phosphates got so high. Probably some combination of overfeeding, lack of water changes and inadequate nutrient export (mcroalgae, skimmer, WCs, etc.) . In your tank right now I would figure out what's keeping your nitrates up, and make sure you don't let it happen in your new tank.


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## Flazky (Jan 9, 2010)

ameekplec. said:


> Turf your old rock. It's going to have soaked up a lot of nitrates and phosphates.
> 
> Also, is this "live sand" from a old tank? If so, forget about it. It'll just be a further cause of failure of your new tank.
> 
> ...


I definately second this.
If you are able to, or rather willing to, restart absolutely fresh unless you know exaclty why you are having problems with your old tank.

Best to start off with dry rock and new sand. From what I know, its best to know exaclty what is in your tank, rather than just guessing and assuming.


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## Dax (Sep 29, 2010)

No sump on either tank but the old one has a protein skimmer, 2 powerheads at opposite ends (1050gph each), canister filter with carbon and phosphate sponges, pc lamps 2-65 watt actinic and 2-65 watt 10 000k. The substrate is about 2 inches deep aragonite sand and about 80 lbs live rock.

The new tank will have a HOB filter, maybe the canister from the old tank, a couple of powerheads and a fluorescent lamp.

I just picked up about 100 lbs of aragonite sand from an old tank. Not sure how bad using it will be but I'd hate to have gone through the trouble/cost and not use it.

I have an RO unit at home and this is where I get the water. I tested it and it is pure. I change about 5 gallons every week. The skimmer is running wet and the stuff coming out is nice and tea like. The only problem could be overfeeding but I tried reducing it, which causes my Heniouchus (6") to start taking bites off the BTA (12"). At one point about half of one side of the BTA tips were all gone. I can say that when I feed I make sure all the food is gone. So as far as the source of nitrates, not sure what else to try.


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## Jmbret (Nov 6, 2010)

*hi*

have you considered a remote deep sand bed inside a hang on back refugium?

Also how often do you rinse out the mechanical sponges (if any) in your canister filter?
Which filter are you using on your tank?

-Jb


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## Dax (Sep 29, 2010)

Never considered it but I like the idea of a remote DSB becasue of the low maintenance and no light requirement aspect. 

Here is my problem; my tank is 4 feet wide, 2 feet tall and 1 foot deep. This leaves no room under the stand because I cannot find anything that will fit under there and a HOB device cannot be of any real size because this will be a potential hazard. So I'm mostly stuck with putting the majority of solutions in the canister, small HOB filter or the tank. If I was to start from scratch, I now understand the real benefits of a sump.

I rinse the mechanical filters once a week and often use floss in the hob filter while I'm cleaning the tank.

Now on to the new project. This is going to be more of an experiment / learning experience. I figure on eventually selling the new setup and upgrading to a larger tank in a few months.


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## Flazky (Jan 9, 2010)

If u are going to use the old sand, rinse the crap outta it and let it dry in the sun. Try to get it as clean as possible as its probably full of stuff you dun want in your new tank. As for remote sandbeds, if I were you, i'd stay away from it as I used to have one, and when I wanted to change it, it was a pita. Unless you have an easy way of taking it out, I wouldnt recommend it. 
Also, try to stay away from sponges as they tend to trap a ton of nitrates which you do not want. Rinsing out the filter will also kill any beneficial bacteria you have in there as well if you are going to stay with the sponges.


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## Dax (Sep 29, 2010)

Well I've already got the sand in the new tank. I rinsed the crap out of it but it still gives off a cloudy haze when i disturb it. Didn't dry it in the sun becasue I didn't understand why and also because I wanted to keep any good bacteria alive if it was still there.

The canister sponges are pretty coarse do I don't know how much beneficiial bacteria would be in there. I was just using it as a mechanical filter to catch the debris when I clean the tank. Thought about removing it many times so maybe the time I clean it they are gone.

I'm working out a method of supporting the rock on a DSB. Is any plastic product safe or is there anything I should know before choosing a base?


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## bioload (Oct 20, 2009)

Dax said:


> It's been almost exactly one year as a saltie ... with reasonable success. The only problem I've had and still have is high nitrates. I tried everthing reasonable but it's still well over 100ppm and no hope in sight. I've pretty much given up because everthing in it is doing fine. I'd like to add some corals but can't with my current parameters.
> 
> Since i have another empty 60 gallon tank I figured on starting it up. Basically, I'd like to make the new tank a fish only (FOWLR) and the original more of a reef. This means I need to move most of the fish into the new tank and keep my existing anemone in the original. This is where the advice part comes in !!!
> 
> ...


FWIW....I've always had issues with high nitrates off the scale (API). Until I set up my 75 gallon with no sand and dosed vodka for a few months. Tank has been running for a over a year now and my last readings a couple months ago were 0ppm Nitrates and 0.024ppm phosphates (Elos).....I did 1 water change back in April.

If the new tank is to be FOWLR I would simply mix new water 100%, transfer the rock/sand you would like, and let it cycle.....I wouldn't sweat N&P's with a FOWLR


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