# dead elm wood for tank ?



## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

Anybody know if elm wood is toxic to fish or shrimps ? I know it can't be green wood, and I'd have to boil it, but I want a longer, slimmer piece of wood to complete my tank's decor and I found this fallen branch. Fairly certain it's elm, all the trees above the fallen piece were Siberian Elms. If elm is not safe, are there any other common woods that are safe.. Maple, or Oak perhaps ?


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## BillD (Jun 5, 2006)

I have used soft maple, and oak can be used. Have some lilac and weeping mulberry in use now too. The elm should be fine.


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

Thanks ! I'm guessing it takes awhile to sink them ? No worries, I can always tie it to a rock or something.


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## Riceburner (Mar 14, 2008)

AFAIK only evergreens should not be used.


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## df001 (Nov 13, 2007)

I would also avoid using walnut as it produces juglone a growth inhibitor/ herbicide for plants, not sure if its present in significant quantities in dead limbs, but it is in bark/roots etc so i wouldnt risk it.


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

Thanks again. I'd have been wary of ever greens anyway, seeing as they have those resins which can persist for a long time even in a dead branch.

There is for sure no walnut around here. I wish ! I love black walnuts. I have often wished I lived somewhere there was a nice walnut grove, even though I know the trees produce a substance that inhibits most other plants. Nice trick to cut down competition for nutrients.

But I've got a nice elm limb and a couple of others, one looks like maple, the other, not sure, but it's certainly not pine, which is the only evergreen in this area that grows branches this size. All very weathered and the bark's coming off, so it will be easy to strip off what's left. So I should be able to get something that will suit my decor aims. 
Thank you all for your suggestions and advice ! If and when my new camera is delivered, [ seems to be taking forever], I'll post some pics of what I've got going so far.


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## characinfan (Dec 24, 2008)

Elm is fine.

Around here it's true that most hardwoods will do no harm (walnut is full of tannins, but probably not poisonous). But I wouldn't use any sumac twigs; they're in the same family as poison ivy and could ooze irritants.

PS -- I wouldn't use willow either, since it's such low-density wood. It would probably decay pretty quickly. (Yes, I do have a hate-on for the willows in my neighbours' yard that drop sticks, catkins, leaves, etc. all over my place!)


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## Jackson (Jan 30, 2009)

These two threads should help out lots

http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=35533
http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=31382

I keep mostly wood eaters and I followed the second thread/ link like it's a guide. the first thread/link is newer but has useful info and it mentions walnut.

HTH


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## df001 (Nov 13, 2007)

characinfan said:


> *(walnut is full of tannins, but probably not poisonous).*


Incorrect - as previously mentioned it is present in bark/roots, AND in the wood. Further reading has also reminded me that in times past, the green walnut hulls were used as a poison for harvesting fish....

_"The causal agent is a chemical called "juglone" (5 hydroxy-1, 4-napthoquinone), which occurs naturally in all parts of the black walnut. Juglone has experimentally been shown to be a respiration inhibitor which deprives sensitive plants of needed energy for metabolic activity."_ http://www.wvu.edu/~agexten/hortcult/fruits/blkwalnt.htm

also see Michael A. Dirr's Manual of woody landscape plants, pages 500-502

I would also stay away from other species of the Juglans genus, as many others also produce juglone - albeit in smaller quantities.. not that shagbark or bitternut hickory are that common here.



> But I wouldn't use any sumac twigs; they're in the same family as poison ivy and could ooze irritants.
> PS -- I wouldn't use willow either, since it's such low-density wood. It would probably decay pretty quickly.


As far as I know, staghorn sumac (the commonly used one) doesn't have any urushiol (the irritant in poison ivy/sumac/oak etc. that said - again low density like the willow - dont recommend.


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## characinfan (Dec 24, 2008)

Juglone is in the roots and hulls, not the wood, whereas the poisons in sumac are in the wood, not the fruit. Not all parts of a plant with poisonous part are poisonous, otherwise we'd all be dead or tremendously ill every time we ate a rhubarb pie, cashew, or mango. . .

Anyway, elm is still fine, and if aquarists are extra-paranoid, they can stick to the wood of fruit trees (not nut trees).


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## df001 (Nov 13, 2007)

characinfan said:


> Juglone is in the roots and hulls, not the wood, whereas the poisons in sumac are in the wood, not the fruit. Not all parts of a plant with poisonous part are poisonous, otherwise we'd all be dead or tremendously ill every time we ate a rhubarb pie, cashew, or mango. . .
> 
> Anyway, elm is still fine, and if aquarists are extra-paranoid, they can stick to the wood of fruit trees (not nut trees).


To be clear, we're talking juglans ***** - black walnut aka american black walnut and rhus typhina - staghorn sumac.

Can you please cite your sources of info on the walnut? As that is contradictory to the resources I've found, also what compounds are you refering to in the sumac? as I've not found any sources that indicate any toxicity in staghorn sumac, not to be confused with poison sumac.

cheers


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