# Tank fully cycled???? Not sure what's going on!



## jamie1985 (Oct 11, 2012)

Hey Everyone,

So I have something weird happening with my 29G biocube. I set the tank up exactly a week ago and got 33 lbs of live rock from big al's (they said it is cured live rock). I let it sit for a week and checked the levels every day. Here are my findings:

day 1 
Ph: 7.9, Ammonia:0, Nitrite:0, Nitrate:3ppm

day 2
Ph:8.2, Ammonia:0, Nitrite:0, Nitrate:6ppm

day 3
Ph:8.3, Ammonia:0, Nitrite:0, Nitrate:10ppm

day 4
Ph:8.3, Ammonia:0, Nitrite:0, Nitrate:10ppm

day 5
Ph:8,3, Ammonia:0, Nitrite:0, Nitrate:10ppm

At this point I wasnt sure if it was cycled or not (because the increased levels of Nitrates) so I threw in a dead shrimp.

day 6
Ph:8.3, Ammonia:0, Nitrite:0, Nitrate:20ppm

day 7 (this morning)
Ph:8.3, Ammonia:0, Nitrite:0, Nitrate:40ppm

I took out the dead shrimp because I am assuming it is doing nothing but polluting my tank (increased Nitrates).

Now my question is, is my tank already cycled? Is this possible without seeing any ammonia or nitrite spike?

Should I go to the hardware store and get some ammonium hydroxide, dose it, and see what happens in 24 hours? If so, which product should I get (and from what store) and how much should I put in?

Thanks in advance for your help and sorry for all of the questions!


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## Kooka (Feb 8, 2011)

Since you used live "cured" rock your tank is cycling much faster. I had zero readings the first week I cycled my tank, but I didn't add any livestock until after week 2 just to be safe. I wouldn't dose anything to the tank at this point, everything looks to be normal. Probably could add a couple of snails once the diatoms appear, but wait on any fish until after 3 weeks or so.

Increasing nitrates would have been from the bacteria in/on the rock converting the ammonia from the dead shrimp. Since the shrimp is gone the nitrate level should go down fairly quickly. Do you have a refugium with macroalgae? What kind of filtration do you run? Do you have a DSB (deep sand bed)?


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## jamie1985 (Oct 11, 2012)

Hey there,

Thanks for the quick reply...thanks for the great advice....so does that mean there is just bacteria iston the rock or are my bioballs working as well? what are diatoms? Sorry im new to saltwater...as far as equipment im just running the stock biocube filtration system. So i shouldnt dose my tank with ammonium hydroxide? Wont that tell me if it is cycled if the levels drop aftye 24 hours? 

Thanks again


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## 50seven (Feb 14, 2010)

If the live rock that you bought stayed underwater the whole time from transportation and being moved into the new tank, it would have very little die off, and therefore you wouldn't see an ammonia spike at all.

Maybe toss in a few hermit crabs and snails for your CUC and see how they do for a couple weeks. Most snails are quite sensitive to ammonia. If no deaths, then maybe try your first fish.

IMHO don't bother with the ammonia dosing. It's rarely done in SW. Actually, I've never heard of it being done in SW. Take what you would spend on a bottle of ammonia and buy the hermit crabs and snails.


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## jamie1985 (Oct 11, 2012)

Hey there,

The live rock wasnt underwater the whole time but i only live about 15 mins from the store. When i put the rock in there was a bunch of what look like little anenomes that survived so i dont think much died off at all. Maybe i will go to the store and get a couple hermit crabs and start with them for a week or so and see what happens?


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## darthvictor (Aug 16, 2011)

jamie1985 said:


> Hey there,
> 
> The live rock wasnt underwater the whole time but i only live about 15 mins from the store. When i put the rock in there was a bunch of what look like little anenomes that survived so i dont think much died off at all. Maybe i will go to the store and get a couple hermit crabs and start with them for a week or so and see what happens?


Better take a picture of those "anemones" for members here to check if they are pest or not


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## 50seven (Feb 14, 2010)

Sounds like a plan. Hermits are generally hardy, so you should be good.

Watch those "little anemones", they might be aiptasia or mojanos, both are pests, and while they might look cool now, eventually they will try to take over the tank. Just Google pics of each to see if that's what you've got.


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## jamie1985 (Oct 11, 2012)

Hey,

Just googled them ans that is what they are....what should i do? If i need to treat the tank will it still be safe to add hermits?


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

one thing for you to remember - every time you add or remove something in/from the tank you will run in micro cycles. Size of the cycle will depend on the volume of unbalanced adding. Fishes, rocks, will make it.

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## 50seven (Feb 14, 2010)

Gotta love BA  The best cure is a syringe filled with boiling water, injected into the soft tissue body of the anemone.

Aiptasia:



















Mojano:


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

jamie1985 said:


> Hey,
> 
> Just googled them ans that is what they are....what should i do? If i need to treat the tank will it still be safe to add hermits?


first for the future - never buy rock in the LFS. Everything what you bring home, dip in http://www.coralrx.com/. (but it will not kill aphtasia)

I always use plumbing torch to burn these thinks, but it depends on how many you have in the tank. With burning you will kill all bacteria in LR.

I am using Calcium Hydroxide to kill mushrooms and it should kill aphtasia. There are also fishes for this purpose

http://saltaquarium.about.com/od/seaanemoneprofiles/a/Ways-To-Eliminate-Aiptasia-Anemones.htm

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## jamie1985 (Oct 11, 2012)

I have aiptasia not mojano...should i just ask at the LFS as to what to do? Will calcium hydroxide hurt hermits?


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

jamie1985 said:


> I have aiptasia not mojano...should i just ask at the LFS as to what to do? Will calcium hydroxide hurt hermits?


Why you are asking here if you plan to ask LFS

calcium hydroxide should not be used concentrated. See the link

You can go and buy Aphtasia X for this purpose

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## 50seven (Feb 14, 2010)

jamie1985 said:


> I have aiptasia not mojano...should i just ask at the LFS as to what to do? Will calcium hydroxide hurt hermits?


Most people have success with a syringe/needle of boiling water injected into the body of the aiptasia.

or you can inject a calcium hydroxide, and no, it won't harm reef inhabitants, as it is the same compound used in Kalkwasser dosing systems.

BTW Sig, where do you get yours from? Does that mean that you also dose Kalk?


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## jamie1985 (Oct 11, 2012)

Hey,

I was asking on the forum here because i am new to saltwater and i wanted umbiased opinions on what i should do from experienced people. It wouldnt be the first time the lfs has led me in the wrong direction so i wanted to arm myself with knowledge from different sources. Thank you for the advice but sorry to bother you. ok great so what kind of syringe? Like an actual needle? So dosing the water probably wont do the trick? What about pulling them off? Thanks again


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

jamie1985 said:


> Hey,
> 
> I was asking on the forum here because i am new to saltwater and i wanted umbiased opinions on what i should do from experienced people. It wouldnt be the first time the lfs has led me in the wrong direction so i wanted to arm myself with knowledge from different sources. Thank you for the advice but sorry to bother you. ok great so what kind of syringe? Like an actual needle? So dosing the water probably wont do the trick? What about pulling them off? Thanks again


you can join Reef Central and there are many sticky threads. I am using syringe with the actual metal needle to kill mushrooms
With aphtasia I always using the torch and it works for sure. Never seen any returns.

I personally, in your case, since looks like you have many, would take all rocks out and burn it (not much). It will postpone 1-2 weeks for the adding fishes, but you will have clean tank

Pulling off will not work. you will not even see smalls one when taken out of water or it will retract in the rock.

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## 50seven (Feb 14, 2010)

Don't mind Sig, he really is a big Russian teddy bear with a great sense of humour. Once you meet him in person, you will understand  At this point in your game, pulling the rocks out and blasting the heads with a propane torch is your best and easiest solution. Since your tank doesn't even have any livestock in it, you have nothing to lose.

unfortunately the Big Lfs stores usually only have one guy who actually knows what he's talking about when it comes to SW. Forums like this one, Reef Central, and just plain reading and researching are your best bet for accurate info.

Yes, an actual needle. I get them from the local farm supply store (Co-op, Country Depot, FS). You could also try a drug store or knocking over a heroin junkie 

Pulling them off usually doesn't work because some of the tissue gets left on and will regenerate a new head. And if you want to dose the water, you'd have to pour in half a jug of bleach...


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## Kooka (Feb 8, 2011)

Dude, treat the LFS (in your case Big Als) like a Costco or Loblaws. Do you ask for advice from the 16 year old part-timers when you're buying your peas and carrots? You go there to buy your stuff, not take advice from them. Thats the same attitude you have to have when you go to BA's. Trust me, many of us on this forum have learned the hard way. 

Like 50seven and sig said, I would be EXTREMELY wary of any livestock I buy from big als, let alone their liverock. I'm not saying its bad liverock, but I'm willing to bet that its covered in crap that will haunt you later on. 

When it comes to saltwater, a little research goes a long way, and the people on this forum and extremely helpful, so I would take their advice over what they say in BA's anytime.


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## Tim (Dec 11, 2011)

jamie1985,

Since you are new, this is a great example for quarantining new stuff.

Read up about setting up a quarantine tank. It will save you many headaches. Just imagine if you had a system already set up then you had added a small batch of big als rock to seed your tank. Or a diseased fish.

Go to reef central and look it up. *Seriously*. The best $40-$50 you will ever spend. And used stuff is perfect for this.

And yes break out the blow torch and burn that stuff off, put it back in the tank for a week or two and keep an eye out for any more before adding anything else.

On the bright side, at least it happened before you filled your tank with livestock and corals.


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## smcx (Mar 31, 2012)

Has anyone tried injecting the nems with hydrogen peroxide?


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## jamie1985 (Oct 11, 2012)

Hey thanks everyone,

Just an update...i tested the water 12 hours after i removed the dead fish and the nitrates went from 40ppm down to 20ppm so something must be working in there...i also added 4 hermits and the water levels are staying stable...i was told i could buy a special type of shrimp that will eat those aphtasia do they work? Or am i better off injecting them?


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

People here are way overreacting with the aiptasia. I've had aiptasia since day one in my tank, and in almost 2 years, it has never spread beyond the odd tiny patch.


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## jamie1985 (Oct 11, 2012)

Where is a good place to buy corals and fish if not at big als and stores like that? I would love to know because their selection isnt the greatest anyway


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## Announce (Aug 27, 2008)

jamie1985 said:


> Where is a good place to buy corals and fish if not at big als and stores like that? I would love to know because their selection isnt the greatest anyway


Hey I didn't read some of the other posts so apologize in advance if I'm repeating anything.

First of all welcome to the hobby, the biocube makes an awesome starting tank for getting into things. First off i'd like to say Big Al's can be an excellent source for the beginner (don't flame me for this) and if you talk to Chris in Barrie he is very knowledgeable. The next closest store to you would likely be Big Al's Vaughan, which tends to carry more of the bread and butter marines. followed by Sea U Marine which has some great corals. Or there is a whole strip of hobbyist stores in Mississauga.

However given the levels you are sharing, your tank is NOT DONE CYCLING. In fact even when all the levels are at 0 chances are you will get another spike. Your nitrates are quite clearly rising, and if they are doing that with no waste being added to the tank, imagine what they will do when you are feeding fish everyday. Try to wait a couple more days, see if it starts going down. And don't add anything till they are at 0ppm, as I promise you they will go up again.

HTH

To my fellow users:

50seven + Kooka
You make an excellent point, typically at the bigger LFS (Al's, Aquatic Kingdom ect) the managers are the best people to go to. And if you are unsure ask to talk to someone who knows there marines. These places are not void of experts, in fact some of the most knowledgeable people I have met in the hobby work there. However regardless of if you are getting the facts from the most knowledgable person around, double check with some one else to make sure, this hobby however is full of conflicting ideas. The reason LFS employees serve as good starting point for guidance is because they have likely heard every possible idea and problem (not to discredit forum users).


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## JulieFish (Apr 8, 2011)

For corals I've bought 100% from classified. mostly people on this forum (and a couple from people on kijiji). That's the way to get the best prices... also great selection... you just have to be mostly okay with buying from photos that you've seen, as it's pretty rude to show up at someone's house, see the coral and change your mind. I've been happy with my purchases 100% though... you also need to be okay with coordinating with people and sticking to a plan. If you live in Barrie... then you might be able to find other Barrie hobbiests by putting up a "wanted - Beginner corals in Barrie" ad or something. For the more advanced corals, generally the trip down to the GTA will be worth it. I think one user at least is in keswick, so that would be close-ish to you.

I think corals from other hobbiests are generally in better health than the ones in stores. But not always.


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## fesso clown (Nov 15, 2011)

JulieFish said:


> For corals I've bought 100% from classified. mostly people on this forum (and a couple from people on kijiji). That's the way to get the best prices... also great selection... you just have to be mostly okay with buying from photos that you've seen, as it's pretty rude to show up at someone's house, see the coral and change your mind. I've been happy with my purchases 100% though... you also need to be okay with coordinating with people and sticking to a plan. If you live in Barrie... then you might be able to find other Barrie hobbiests by putting up a "wanted - Beginner corals in Barrie" ad or something. For the more advanced corals, generally the trip down to the GTA will be worth it. I think one user at least is in keswick, so that would be close-ish to you.
> 
> I think corals from other hobbiests are generally in better health than the ones in stores. But not always.


Totally agree, I did the same thing, I only bought (and pretty much do still) frags from fellow GTAA members, it is/was a great excuse to meet people in person, see established tanks and ask questions.... in person..... start watching the classifieds here and make some house-calls...


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## jamie1985 (Oct 11, 2012)

Great thanks guys for the advice...i guess you have to know what you want before you start looking in classifides...


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## jamie1985 (Oct 11, 2012)

Kooka mentioned something about adding snails once diatoms appear...what are diatoms? I am starting to get a bit of green algae should i get some snails?


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## JulieFish (Apr 8, 2011)

Not necessarily... I just see the name of the coral in the classified ad, then search it on google. I read the care requirements on a handful of websites (no fewer than 5), looking for the words "beginner" or "easy" at the beginning. I look at a bunch of photos of it from google too to get a better feel of what it might look like. If you like it and you think it will live in your setup, then that's as much as you are gonna get at a store anyway. Know your tank's limitations, like your lighting intensity and flow intensity and tank size and if you have a skimmer or not... use these limitations to help you determine if corals that are for sale will live.



jamie1985 said:


> Great thanks guys for the advice...i guess you have to know what you want before you start looking in classifides...


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## jamie1985 (Oct 11, 2012)

Update...

Day 11 and still at Ph 8.3-8.4, Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, and Nitrate holding steady at 20 ppm with 4 hermits. Should i add a carpet anenome and 2 clowns this weekend if nothing changes?


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## 50seven (Feb 14, 2010)

Nope. too early and too much. No anemone for a brand new tank until 3-4 months. I prefer 6 months, and it is definitely more prudent to wait that long. You risk it dying. If you put it in now, it most likely will die, and because the tank is so new, will run the risk of causing an ammonia spike, killing all your fish and snails.

Might I suggest that you'd be better to throw an assortment of snails in for a week first. If they remain healthy, then your tank should be a go for fish after that.

Just add the 2 clowns at that point, no more livestock than that. Wait at least 2 weeks after that to put anything else in.


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## jamie1985 (Oct 11, 2012)

Excellent thanks for the great advice i will get some snails...you said an assortment...whichbones are good ones? I am thinking about getting a couple more blue legged hermits too..

Thanks!


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## 50seven (Feb 14, 2010)

Personally I'd go to SUM and get an assortment.

Nassarius are great for the sand bed

Cerith, Astrea, and Tectus are good for the rock work

Turbos eat a lot on the glass, but IMHO they are useless as the ones I end up with can't right themselves if they fall over


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## DrBlueThumb (Feb 18, 2012)

ceriths are my personal favorites.


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## jamie1985 (Oct 11, 2012)

Excellent! Thanks guys! Btw i have two blue legged and two red lagged hermits and the blue ones seem to be eating a lot more and are much more active is this normal? Do they eat the same food or do the red ones eat something different that is maybe not in my tank?


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## Killerbunny (Sep 16, 2011)

Hi Jamie! I'm in Barrie too.  

The two sites I go to the most for advice and just to learn are this one, and the Marine Aquarium Society of Barrie site ( masb.ca/forum ). Quite a few reefers in our area, and there are even get-togethers from time to time!


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