# Question about Angels Breeding



## GuppiesAndBetta (Jul 27, 2009)

My Angel laid eggs for the first time but suddenly, a couple days later the female Angel died. Has anyone heard of this happening?


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## BillD (Jun 5, 2006)

It happens and doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the spawn.


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## blackninja (Dec 3, 2009)

That is pretty rare. Conditions have to be pretty ideal for angels to breed. At the time of breeding the females are in their best physical condition because they are prepared to go through the whole process which can physically drain them.
If the number of eggs laid were small in number then she was not well conditioned (top physical shape) before the spawning and could well have succumbed to the stress. But here again they will not breed if not physically ready. Check for water conditions and other symptoms.


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## Darkside (Sep 14, 2009)

BillD said:


> It happens and doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the spawn.


+1, I agree.


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## blackninja (Dec 3, 2009)

Darkside said:


> +1, I agree.


Are you guys just agreeing shit happens or have actually bred angel fish?


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## Joeee (Apr 3, 2010)

Joeee said:


> Is it possible that the male angel is Chris Brown?


This came off as more as a joke, but there is a possibility that the male wasn't quite satisified with the spawn so he killed the female.

It is also possible that the female wasn't in quite the best shape at the time of spawning or it could be with the actual ejecting of the eggs from the female's body.

I don't think we can really just say 'shit happens' in this case, but I think I provided some of the most plausible explanations.


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## blackninja (Dec 3, 2009)

Joeee said:


> This came off as more as a joke, but there is a possibility that the male wasn't quite satisified with the spawn so he killed the female.
> 
> It is also possible that the female wasn't in quite the best shape at the time of spawning or it could be with the actual ejecting of the eggs from the female's body.
> 
> I don't think we can really just say 'shit happens' in this case, but I think I provided some of the most plausible explanations.


That is a pretty good causality prognosis. There are times when the female is too aggressive and will not let the male near the eggs and if the male is much larger will attack the female. This generally happens if it is their first time spawning.
There is this other situation where the female will eat the eggs and that can trigger male aggression. 
As for not being satisfied with the spawn so the male kills the female. I have seen cooperation even when there were just a few eggs. I think only humans discriminate at this low level.


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## PACMAN (Mar 4, 2010)

Joeee said:


> Is it possible that the male angel is Chris Brown?


ouch, too soon


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## BillD (Jun 5, 2006)

blackninja said:


> Are you guys just agreeing shit happens or have actually bred angel fish?


I have bred more than a few angelfish. I have also had more than a few unexplained deaths, with no symptoms of disease. Angelfish are very easy to breed, although having them get it right can be a challenge. You can always sell any angels you can raise.


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## blackninja (Dec 3, 2009)

BillD said:


> I have bred more than a few angelfish. I have also had more than a few unexplained deaths, with no symptoms of disease. Angelfish are very easy to breed, although having them get it right can be a challenge. You can always sell any angels you can raise.


BillD please excuse my candor but your "unexplained deaths" reads like a bad ending to a mystery novel. Were there conclusions formed in the past at a time when very little was known about fish maladies (which obviously cannot be revisited) or is it a reoccurring problem these "unexplained deaths" which defies causality?
Several plausible explanations were offered by Joeee for such sudden deaths with the omission of "natural causes", even the all encompassing shit happens was included to calm any befuddlement. 
Are we missing something here like a dimension beyond the scope of the pro's or hobbyist to these unexplained deaths? Can we label this dimension *U*nexplainable *F*ish *O*bit to attract aspiring sleuths to help demystify. Incidentally, I fully agree with the rest of your statements.


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## BillD (Jun 5, 2006)

What I class as an unexplained death is when a fish is fine one day, eating and acting normally, and dead the next. This is not to be confused with a fish hat is ailing and dying in spite of any treatments. Fish diseases are often difficult to diagnose, without a necropsy, at which point it is too late for the individual. Viral disease isn't really within the scope of the hobbyist to diagnose. The infamous "Angel Aids" plague that swept through the hobby and breeder operations is a case in point. It was believed to be viral, but most of the reports I read were anecdotal, and dealt with progress of the disease, rather than any successful treatment.


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## blackninja (Dec 3, 2009)

I am wondering if you are talking about "Sudden Death Syndrome" SDS where the fish is alive one day and gone the next day for no apparent reason. Most of the cases of SDS are reported by hobbyist and are not unique to any particular type of fish. All viral and bacterial infections leave visible symptoms such as discoloring, lesions, bloating, excretions etc. which does leave one mystified when SDS strikes.


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## BillD (Jun 5, 2006)

For lack of a better description, SDS will do.


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## missindifferent (Jun 25, 2010)

Joeee said:


> Is it possible that the male angel is Chris Brown?


loll, this is a really funny and interesting thread. My bf had a pair of angelfish that tried to mate in a community tank, but it was the male who died.


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## blackninja (Dec 3, 2009)

missindifferent said:


> loll, this is a really funny and interesting thread. My bf had a pair of angelfish that tried to mate in a community tank, but it was the male who died.


Some males will sacrifice themselves for the greater good. Fortunately that is rare or there would be a shortage of such noble creatures.


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## blackninja (Dec 3, 2009)

TBemba said:


> So you think Fish can commit suicide now?
> 
> Making such comments make you not very credible .....
> 
> ...


We see it in spiders and no reason to doubts fish also make sacrifices. I have seen females get beaten to death by the more aggressive males for not allowing them near the eggs because they suspect the male is going to eat them and that is a sacrifice she makes.
I have also seen males get killed because the females were just bigger and more aggressive protecting the spawn and misread the males intentions. The males could have ignored the eggs so to lose his life over it. It is natural instincts bro. 
Is this a natural phenomena? When you observe the parenting of certain fish you are amazed they show human traits when caring for the young and will not eat so that their babies are fed first. I have also seen babies feed off the mucous of their parents when food supply was low almost to the point where the parents were close to dying from losing this mucous protection.
I am not a theorist.. I am a hobbyist and if I have not personally observed such variations I would have very little to publish. 
There are experts here who may know more but if they are not speaking out ,it is for good reasons.


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