# Sooooo This Happened



## a2d (Dec 18, 2012)

I've been into reef keeping for well over 20 years, but for some reason……..I can't figure out what went wrong.
I've been out of the game for 3-4 years and was convinced to starting a new tank. mind you it didn't take too much convincing. 
how big of a tank can I fit in the condo???……..The building engineers said a max of 55gal a little disappointing….
Its shopping time,
WOW the hobby has progressed rapidly in the last few years, lots of goodies

so needless to say I reused some of my old equipment some old LR, MH 250W 20k and a skimmer.
I purchased a 37gal column 20x18x30 tall, main pump, wave maker, filter socks…(ummmm no bio balls anymore?) made a stand, hood and sump, installed and external overflow.

ts been up and running for over 4 months, I'm even using RO water now, hahaha 
my water testes have been coming back actually really good and there is very little algae. you would figure great news. 

I test the water twice a week and I change 10 gal of water every 2 weeks.
I've dosed Kalkwasser once in the 4 months just to try this new to me god send.

after 2 months I decided to add fish, (2 clowns, 3 Blue/Green Chromis and a Pj cardinal), 
Everything is going great, water test still come back good and everyone seems to be happy and eating well. 
I do notice that the sand is getting dirty and more algae is growing.

at about the 2.5 month mark I added a 4 Nassarius Snails to start a CleanUP Crew, and about a week later I added 17 red legged hermit crabs.

I figure everything is going so well I'll add some corals, this was just this past weekend so about the 4.5 month mark.
I purchased 1- Utter Chaos Frag, 1- LR that had lots of pulsing xenia and 2 orange Ricordea Mushrooms, and a green hammer.

and so far almost everything has died, the utter Chaos looks great, no issues there, the orange Ricordea Mushrooms seems to be ok, they haven't opened fully but they still have their colours and I think with time they'll be ok..Fingers crossed.
The Hammer has died and all thats left is its skeleton.
most of the pulsing xenia seems to has died, there are 4-5 clumps of it holding on…hopefully they'll pull through they are not pulsing but when the hermit crabs are cleaning they shrink up and inflate when undisturbed….hopefully. 

The corals looked great in the guys tank when I got them, very clean.. lots of movement.. great colours So I don't believe he sold me sick corals

Tank Water readings 
Salinity 32 PPT Specific Gravity 1.024
PH 8.4, 
Nitrate 0 PPM, 
Nitrite .25 PPM, 
KH 280PPM, 
CA 500PPM
Temp 82

I was reading that too big of a skimmer can pull trace elements out of the water, and cause xeina to shrivel up. I've never heard of this…anyone?
I think this skimmer might be a bit overkill as it was on my 125. 
isn't bigger better, more surface area contact? maybe?
I don't think the lighting is an issue.
maybe they just didn't like the car trip home, 30-40 min tops
I dripped the corals for over an hour..a steady drip 3 drips per second ish 
anyone have any thoughts?

Mike


----------



## szl (Sep 18, 2015)

a2d said:


> my water *testes*


I think I found ur problem!

Joking  I wish I had more advice, but Im pretty new myself and am experiencing similar problems.


----------



## mensa (Nov 25, 2015)

maybe a couple degrees too hot
otherwise everything seems in order


----------



## kamal (Apr 21, 2009)

whats the TDS for the water being used?


----------



## a2d (Dec 18, 2012)

the TDS after the RO are usually between 4 and 8 PPM and before out of the tap its 168 PPM


----------



## a2d (Dec 18, 2012)

mensa said:


> maybe a couple degrees too hot
> otherwise everything seems in order


 I ran my other tank at the same temp&#8230;well over 10 years I may be wrong but I think the ocean waters around reefs are well in the 80 ish area


----------



## nc208082 (Jun 27, 2013)

Your parameters are out of whack it looks like, this may be your problem. You are showing no Nitrate, and .25 of Nitrite? You should have 0 nitrite and some nitrate. Also your alk is really high if its 280ppm which is dkh of 15.68. with nitrates that low and alk that high your corals may be a little irritated. Especially if the tank they were coming from kept a low alk.

Xenia likes dirtier water and so does lps so your water may be to clean as well.

I would stop dosing kalk and anything else. Do some larger water changes to try and bring your levels into normal range and let things settle for a bit. Raise your salinity to 1.026 if you can. In terms of skimmer I would turn it off, on a 37g tank you could get by with weekly water changes if you have very little corals and fish. Using a skimmer rated for a 125g is a bit overkill for a small tank like that.

Post some pics soon of your setup.


----------



## a2d (Dec 18, 2012)

interesting, my test kit says that between 180 and 300PPM of total Alkalinity
is Ideal, maybe I should have said total alkalinity or is that still too high?
as for the skimmer, its been off for the most part of the week, I don't mind it being off as its much quieter.


----------



## Car2n (Jun 7, 2011)

My tank has been 93-95 all of July. I've lost almost everything. 

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


----------



## twobytwo (Oct 25, 2014)

nc208082 said:


> Your parameters are out of whack it looks like, this may be your problem. You are showing no Nitrate, and .25 of Nitrite? You should have 0 nitrite and some nitrate. Also your alk is really high if its 280ppm which is dkh of 15.68. with nitrates that low and alk that high your corals may be a little irritated. Especially if the tank they were coming from kept a low alk.


These were the 2 points I was thinking of as well. For a 4 month old tank it seems strange for nitrite to be there and nitrate at 0. And that alk would indeed be high, but you said you only used kalk once?

what are you testing with (brand)? Are you mixing your own saltwater or buying from a lfs? What kind of salt? Where are your corals placed?

Also, this may be unrelated, but was the MH bulb from your old setup or did you replace it with a new one?

I also Lol'd at Testes.


----------



## a2d (Dec 18, 2012)

yes, I only used Kalk once 1 gal using 2 TBS dripped in the sump over a few days. 
I'm mixing my own salt IO Reef Crystals and RO water, 
API test kits for PH and CAL, and Marineland multi test strips for ALK, Nitrate and nitrite. and measuring salinity I'm using IO Hydrometer.
I'm sure the test strips are not that accurate but they should be in the ballpark.
The corals were placed in the lower part of the tank, the xeina is maybe 6" above the sand bed, the hammer was placed in the sand bed, and the utter chaos is maybe 4" off the sand bed. 
Yes, replaced the bulb when I put the system together.


hahaha a funny typo, its good for a laugh


----------



## Bassick (Nov 19, 2014)

How old is that ballast? If its old it could be a problem as well


----------



## mensa (Nov 25, 2015)

I wondered about the nitrate/nitrite thing too but just assumed you crossed them up... is there any chance that tank has never cycled
any ammonia in there?


----------



## a2d (Dec 18, 2012)

Hmm the ballast is most likely 10years old..if not older. 
That maybe be the case, but to my eyes the lighting looks like I remember it. 
But without a par meter I don't really know. 

As for Ammonia I have no idea...maybe I should take some water in and have it tested.
Or better yet I should just buy a few more test kits.

As for a cycle, I'm pretty sure it went thought it's cycle stage.
Nothing really increased too drastic. 
As there is a 3" live sand bed and maybe 20-25lbs of LR


----------



## a2d (Dec 18, 2012)

On a side note, maybe it's because of the lighting difference between the two different tanks ? The corals came from a tank lit with LEDs

Or maybe some of my test kits are wayyyy off


----------



## Bassick (Nov 19, 2014)

It may not be the cause of your problems but I would def replace the ballast.


----------



## nc208082 (Jun 27, 2013)

API test kits are not the most accurate but they will give you a general idea of where your tank is at. I'd be more focused on upgrading the hydrometer to a refractometer so you can get a more accurate idea of mixing salt.

I highly doubt it is your ballast causing these problems, however a ballast that old should be replaced because of fire hazard. Those components inside do not last forever. 

I believe it is do to your water chemistry especially your alk, I would recommend getting a hanna alk checker or salifert or red sea. These are alot more accurate than an api and will be very helpful with your future success. Bring in a water sample to a store or a fellow hobbyists place and cross check your numbers. An alk of 15.68dkh is very very high, even acclimating for an hour isn't enough if it came from a tank with an alk of 7-8. a jump of 1-2 dkh is enough to stress corals but if it jumped 6-7 dkh that can be very stressful.

Also roll your salt around so it is well mixed, it can settle improperly while in transport. Test your water change water to make sure you don't have a bad batch or something which could be giving you these high numbers.


----------



## Yellowtang (May 26, 2015)

Mike a 250 watt M.H. bulb is quite bright for the size of tank you are running. I ran those bulbs when my tank was almost all sps but for what you put in the tank it maybe too much light. I don't know how long you have your lights on for but cut back the time you have your M.H. on for. When I ran M.H. bulbs there were certain softies in my tank that I couldn't keep, lights and too clean water contributed to my problems. The M.H. will also warm up the water in your tank. Definitely check the perimeters of your water as well as previously mentioned. Like you I returned to the hobby this year after being out of it for almost 10 years. I'm running T-5's after trying LED's and I've had success. I'm also adding b-ionic two part to my tank instead of using a reactor, I've found that this also helps me keep my perimeters steady. Just my 2 cents thanks.


----------



## a2d (Dec 18, 2012)

just a little update, I changed 50% of the water, and retested, and got pretty close to the same results…Time for some new test kits…but I think we knew that the test kits were most likely leading me down a garden path with thorns and such.. haha 
for the lighting I had 3 of these over my big tank without an issue and this tank is basically a third….I do have it about 12" off the water (a little higher than before.) I think I'm ok there.
I re adjusted the flow in the tank and added a cap full of Iodide that seems to have helped a lot, a few days later and what didn't die seems pretty happy and pulsating. 

what do you guys think about WP25 in a cube tank (it was on Else mode most of the time and in W1, S1 mode for night time and feeding)
could it have been too much flow? and no, I didn't have it pointed directly at it. 
Should I look at the next size down ? 
or maybe what survived, acclimated to the conditions? 

Its been a week or so since and the tank is looking healthy.


----------



## 50seven (Feb 14, 2010)

*May I propose a hypothesis...*

Couldn't help but notice your thread, and it seems too familiar to me... 

Having been there myself (actually worse than you from what it sounds) and fully recovered, I'd like to offer a quasi-scientific hypothesis that might be your problem, as was mine. This is based on my own test readings, observation, and independent research papers that I read over the 9-month course of my own algae battle, the monologue of which I shall spare you. Here's the nitty-gritty:

Limestone-based rock and sand are great biological growing surfaces, etc., but they also act like sponges for nitrates and phosphates. You may consistently read 0 on both, because if the rock isn't absorbing it, then the the algae is. The algae starts to bloom, absorbing more of the free NO3 and PO3, which may come from fish poo or from what has been absorbed by the LR. FWIW, I never once tested and got a readable amount of either PO3 or NO3. Yet somehow I had a forest of GHA. Yuck.

Old LR may have maxed out its critical mass of PO3, which while it will grow all kinds of cool organisms, won't do anything to control PO3 or NO3. Even with brand new LR, eventually is won't be able to work as a sponge anymore. You need something to export the nutrients: be it chaeto, mangroves, or some slimy algae in your DT if that's the way you roll. 

The nutrient sponge properties of LR will work as an amazing buffer to keep you water quality perfect, but only if there is an effective nutrient export. Algae scrubbers, frequent regular water changes, refugiums are all ways to do it. Or replace all your LR every few years if you're a masochist. There's so many different ways to do this, and the internet is full of ideas too if you're stuck. Since my refugium decided it didn't like chaeto, I ended up building a thriving mangrove forest.

If you think your LR has reached "critical mass" and you're about to get a chain reaction of nuclear green hair algae, you need a metaphoric vacuum to suck every bit of NO3 and PO3 out of the entire system and flush clean the LR's buffer. I achieved equilibrium by using a lanthanum chloride compound dosed into the system. LaCl works by binding itself to PO3 molecules and turning them into inert (usually microscopic) particles. These particles can be caught in your filter sock, vacuumed off the bottom with a python, IF you feel the need to- I never did. Within a week you should see a difference, but keep dosing well after the algae is gone, to be sure that you've emptied the LR's buffer. MS Internet Explorer users will relate. 

For dosing amounts you may want to do your own research, but I used Dazzle's "phos cleanse" (it's a pool chemical) at the rate of 5ml every other day in my 90 gallon reef. Not a single fish or coral loss. Shake the bottle well before you dose. No clouding, no precipitate, just results. 

Good luck...

P.S. sorry to all my pals for being such a stranger on the boards...


----------



## Yellowtang (May 26, 2015)

Great information, thanks for sharing!!!


----------



## a2d (Dec 18, 2012)

50seven said:


> Couldn't help but notice your thread, and it seems too familiar to me...
> 
> Having been there myself (actually worse than you from what it sounds) and fully recovered, I'd like to offer a quasi-scientific hypothesis that might be your problem, as was mine. This is based on my own test readings, observation, and independent research papers that I read over the 9-month course of my own algae battle, the monologue of which I shall spare you. Here's the nitty-gritty:
> 
> ...


interesting, you are totally right I had that issue with my old tank been down that road&#8230;.and I'm not taking that trip again.
this tank is maybe 5 months old and is lightly stocked. so I don't think i 
have a nutrient issue yet also I don't have an issue with algae not at all.
to be honest I'm quite surprised on that as I was always battling hair algae with my old tank.

Its a new sand bed and mostly new rock, I used 3 pieces of LR from my old system and I cured them properly. its been around 5 years since they were last in a tank so I don't think thats an issue. I maybe wrong.

I'm pretty sure that my issue was too much flow&#8230;.I lost the hammer and 3 clumps of xenia.
After slowing down the flow all seems to be happy.


----------

