# New to Saltwater!



## CallMeKenny

Hey everyone, well I have spent my time with freshwater tanks and always been to afraid of the costs and unknown factors in saltwater aquariums. I finally have enough time to do my research and hopefully set up a tank. I am thinking about getting a 30gallon tank with a 10gallon sump. I hope to have beginner corals and easy to keep fish. My only problem is my budget as I am a student who has been unable to find a job.  So I am hoping to find any cheap solutions without cutting too many corners. I was wondering if you guys can help me get started on setting up the tank and all the equipment I will need? I have an old TV stand I sanded down and just need to paint, but that is about all I have so far.


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## damsel_den

Buy off of here or the other sites.

Some times good complete set ups come up(there's a really nice one now on here in burlington, and the price is great but I don't know how much you are willing to spend) .
But make sure your buying quality or its going to cost you more in the long run.
And ask the forum if you think its a good product/price.
Also, it's a costly hobby (hubby has to keep me in line) but I only work a couple hours a week and manage to keep it up.



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## sig

CallMeKenny said:


> H. My only problem is my budget as I am a student who has been unable to find a job.  S


do not start until you will get a job. even with buying used items. you are looking ~$500



damsel_den said:


> Buy off of here or the other sites.
> 
> Also, it's a costly hobby (hubby has to keep me in line) but I only work a couple hours a week and manage to keep it up.


you forgot to mention your working husband 

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## damsel_den

sig said:


> you forgot to mention your working husband


Working husband doesn't put any money into the tank, apparently house bills and his own hobbys are too costly and I should pay for my own hobby. And as of the next few months I'll be out of a job too


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## CallMeKenny

I don't plan on getting everything at once, I still have a lot of research to do. I will be trying to gather everything I will need by the end of the summer. Hopefully before that if someone hires me!  I was hoping someone could provide me with a list of items I will need, or a link that has it and also stores in the GTA (Scarborough if possible) that are good for saltwater equipment and livestock.


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## sig

read this for the start

http://www.gtaaquaria.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7482

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## SKurj

You don't realize how expensive saltwater can be until you add up the receipts...

buy used if you can, it will save you a bundle.

Lots of guides as to what you need, I have bought several books and scavenged sites like this and reefcentral.com


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## J_T

Contact Reddog, I think his setup is still for sale, and you won't do better for the money he is looking for. It will be a really nice startup tank, and has everything you need to start up.


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## CallMeKenny

Thanks for all the responses, before I start I have a question about lighting. For my planted tank I built 2 hanging light fixtures that each power a 26Watt 6500K CFL bulbs. Would this be enough light for a 30 gallon? I could always add another bulb if necessary. If not what type of lighting would be best?


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## J_T

CallMeKenny said:


> Thanks for all the responses, before I start I have a question about lighting. For my planted tank I built 2 hanging light fixtures that each power a 26Watt 6500K CFL bulbs. Would this be enough light for a 30 gallon? I could always add another bulb if necessary. If not what type of lighting would be best?


Still much to read there is!

That kelvin will grow really nice algae! Some leathers, and not a whole heck of a lot more (well, not that you'd see past the algae).

They do sell power compact bulbs for saltwater tanks. It is a 50/50 compact. This would be better suited than the ones you have.

However, you would do even better if you looked at some of the t5HO options. Just a couple bulbs would let you do pretty much what you would like.


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## CallMeKenny

I have been looking through many options and there are the expensive $400 fixtures and then there are not as expensive fixtures like SolarMax T5HO Double Light System 36". What are the main differences and do you have any suggestions for a fixture?


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## Redddogg69

Thanks for the plug damsel and jt. Kenny my set up is all quality high end stuff ( the t5 is the only weak link, but with the savings I'm offering on everything else you will have lots of savings for a better light down the road). Good luck with your research and hopefully (but doubtful lol) you will take people's advice and not make the same mistakes we all did and waste money on inferior products.


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## CallMeKenny

Hey Reddog, I did see your items for sale but it is out of my price range at the moment.  I am hoping to find a cheap 30gal and then a decent light fixture first, but am having difficulty understanding the difference in lighting.


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## Redddogg69

CallMeKenny said:


> Hey Reddog, I did see your items for sale but it is out of my price range at the moment.  I am hoping to find a cheap 30gal and then a decent light fixture first, but am having difficulty understanding the difference in lighting.


Honestly dude, and please don't take this the wrong way, but if $400 bucks for a complete and running system is out of your budget saltwater is NOT FOR YOU. This hobby is anything but cheap even when sourcing used products and I won't even touch on livestock, sand, and rock. For a 20g tank setup your into about $500 bucks at least all in and it just goes up rapidly from there. This may come as a bitter pill but it is the honest truth. I've been in the industry for 10 years and seen it all. Anyone who comes here telling you this hobby can be done for less is flat out lying. Best advice I can give you is wait and save your pennies till you can afford the biggest setup you can fit, the larger the setup the easier it is to take care of, which translates into fewer deaths and less money wasted. The quality of equiptment in saltwater is directly related to how much you spend on it, there are very few products that are grossly over priced. Good luck and read lots. Head over to reef central for a more advanced look at what your in for. Cheers


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## CallMeKenny

I appreciate your input reddog, but it is out of my budget to spend $400 all at once. I plan on gathering all of the equipment throughout the summer.


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## Redddogg69

CallMeKenny said:


> I appreciate your input reddog, but it is out of my budget to spend $400 all at once. I plan on gathering all of the equipment throughout the summer.


Understandable I wasn't implying anything as far as my setup for sale was concerned, just trying to stress that that amount of money is well under the level you will need to spend. Seek your advice from as many outlets as you can (everyone myself included is partial to one way or another) find the multiple answers that come close to each other to find the right path.


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## altcharacter

This hobby can be inexpensive like anything else but you just need to know the right people and be able to make trades or do things....you know...things!!

Kenny if you're ever looking for some help with anything give me a shout. I might have what you're looking for.


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## CallMeKenny

Thanks alt, I'll probably take you up on that sometime ! 

Well I have my first job interview tomorrow so lets see how this goes! 

Stand just needs 1 more coat of paint and it will be ready to go.


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## 50seven

CallMeKenny said:


> Thanks alt, I'll probably take you up on that sometime !
> 
> Well I have my first job interview tomorrow so lets see how this goes!


Good luck!


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## TypeZERO

I have to agree, salt water is pricey, from livestock to equipment. I think many would agree that you should spend money on good quality equipment so that down the road (near or far), you don't end up getting it anyways.


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## Windowlicka

I read what I guess was intended to be a joke on RC some time back... It's not really a joke, 'cos it's the absolute truth:

_How do you end up with a small fortune when reefing?_

*Start with a Large fortune!*.


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## CallMeKenny

Well I think the interview went well... 

Windowlicka that gave me a bit of a chuckle . Everyone is saying how expensive it is and its making me want to see if I can build one with minimal costs even more


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## altcharacter

Well I have a 20g you can have for free and I have some sand you could throw in it. Hell I even have a few pieces of smaller LR I'll throw in for you if you come pick it up. All you would need to start is a HOB filter and good lighting...oh and salt!


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## CallMeKenny

altcharacter said:


> Well I have a 20g you can have for free and I have some sand you could throw in it. Hell I even have a few pieces of smaller LR I'll throw in for you if you come pick it up. All you would need to start is a HOB filter and good lighting...oh and salt!


Thanks for the offer altcharacter but I think I am going to look around for a little bigger. I may be able to use it for a sump tho! Could you tell me the dimensions of it?


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## CallMeKenny

The stand is finally finished and in place!


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## altcharacter

come pick up this 90g and I'll throw in a 23g sump.


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## CallMeKenny

I wish I had room for a 90gallon!


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## CallMeKenny

Well I have been building a stand for the future tank and it is basically finished! Now I need to figure out the type of lighting I want and to get started on building my sump out of the 20 gallon Dave gave to me!  

For lighting I am leaning towards a DIY LED kit of some kind. Maybe a kit from RapidLed?

And for the sump build I have been researching ways to build one and a lot of them are |Skimmer>|Fuge>|Output^| would this be fine? Also if anyone could suggest where to buy and get glass panels cut? Or would acrylic be easier and cheaper  (read somewhere that acrylic doesn't bond properly to glass?) 

Thanks for helping out a newbie


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## sig

to tell true, I am not sure but this stand looks like dangerous for the future tank and for sump also.
It will be very inconvenient to maintain sump also
Sorry, I am not helping

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## CallMeKenny

sig said:


> to tell true, I am not sure but this stand looks like dangerous for the future tank and for sump also.
> It will be very inconvenient to maintain sump also
> Sorry, I am not helping


The stand I posted before isn't going to be used. I actually bit the bullet and built a completely new one


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## J_T

CallMeKenny said:


> The stand I posted before isn't going to be used. I actually bit the bullet and built a completely new one


Pictures or it didn't happen!

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## CallMeKenny

J_T said:


> Pictures or it didn't happen!
> 
> Posted with my Xperia, using Tapatalk 2


Here you go  I am thinking about just throwing on some black material as a curtain instead of doors.


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## sig

CallMeKenny said:


> The stand I posted before isn't going to be used. I actually bit the bullet and built a completely new one


was it mandatory to make me type in English harsh words 

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## J_T

Go with a door. I have gone the curtain route, and well, its pretty ghetto if not done right.

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## CallMeKenny

I will probably upgrade to doors if I move it in the future to my dads office, but for now I can deal with a little ghetto in my room.


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## CallMeKenny

Does anyone have any suggestions for where to get glass/acrylic for baffles to used for a sump?


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## Ctp416

Plastic World
1140 Sheppard Ave West, Unit 8
(just west of Allen Rd.)
Downsview, Ontario M3K 2A6
plasticworld.ca


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## J_T

CallMeKenny said:


> Does anyone have any suggestions for where to get glass/acrylic for baffles to used for a sump?


Send me a message. I have lots of smaller leftovers from jobs I have done. As long as you don't mind picking up, I am certain I'll be cheaper 

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## J_T

Ctp416 said:


> Plastic World
> 1140 Sheppard Ave West, Unit 8
> (just west of Allen Rd.)
> Downsview, Ontario M3K 2A6
> plasticworld.ca


They have a website too, great guys over there! Its where I shop 

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## sig

acrylic from them will cost you around 70-100 backs for the 6 baffles, because you need to get at least 1.4" or it will bend
get free tank or buy for 20-30 and ask somebody to cut it for a baffles

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## CallMeKenny

sig said:


> acrylic from them will cost you around 70-100 backs for the 6 baffles, because you need to get at least 1.4" or it will bend
> get free tank or buy for 20-30 and ask somebody to cut it for a baffles


$100.. ouch! Don't have the cash for that.


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## CallMeKenny

J_T said:


> Send me a message. I have lots of smaller leftovers from jobs I have done. As long as you don't mind picking up, I am certain I'll be cheaper
> 
> Posted with my Xperia, using Tapatalk 2


Thanks for the offer, I have sent you a PM


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## J_T

CallMeKenny said:


> Thanks for the offer, I have sent you a PM


Got it, and replied


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## CallMeKenny

Curtains are almost finished and I should be getting the tank, skimmer and some powerheads this week. 

I don't think the job interview went very well since I never got a call back.  Guess I will still be on a tight budget for now...


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## J_T

CallMeKenny said:


> Curtains are almost finished and I should be getting the tank, skimmer and some powerheads this week.
> 
> I don't think the job interview went very well since I never got a call back.  Guess I will still be on a tight budget for now...


Call back. Sometimes that will sway them. And it doesn't hurt!

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## CallMeKenny

J_T said:


> Call back. Sometimes that will sway them. And it doesn't hurt!
> 
> Posted with my Xperia, using Tapatalk 2


My mum has been telling me the same thing, I guess I will call tomorrow.


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## J_T

CallMeKenny said:


> My mum has been telling me the same thing, I guess I will call tomorrow.


Sales rep at my wifes work got his job for calling back... every Monday for 3 weeks 

Good luck! Side note, I heard that some unions are about to go on hiring binges. They need to train the new people before they run into the work force retiring!


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## CallMeKenny

Also still researching my options for lighting, I am leaning towards LEDs to get my dad off my back about the electricity bill!  I also like the shimmer effect and colour they provide with the dimming option, except I dislike the price!  AquaStyle seems to be reasonably priced though... any tips or advice on lighting?


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## CallMeKenny

J_T said:


> Sales rep at my wifes work got his job for calling back... every Monday for 3 weeks
> 
> Good luck! Side note, I heard that some unions are about to go on hiring binges. They need to train the new people before they run into the work force retiring!


I have been back to the store a few times (Home Depot) since the interview, but never had the courage to call or talk to them!  It was for a merchandising position, but the problem might have been with my schedule when I begin university.


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## CallMeKenny

Is $150 reasonable price for a new 40B tank, a skimmer rated for 60 gallons and 2 powerheads? I do not know the brands yet...


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## carmenh

What brand is the skimmer? 


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## CallMeKenny

carmenh said:


> What brand is the skimmer?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I wont be able to find out until I go to his house tomorrow. Do you have any tips for brands I should avoid? Sound is a big factor since the tank is in my bedroom.


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## carmenh

Is there an ad we can look at? Someone might be able to ID it so you can google it... Is the tank drilled? That will make a diff in what kind of skimmer is with it. If its a hang-on, it probably wont be ideal for in-sump use...
One brand I know of to avoid is coralife, and even that one won't be as problematic as an in-sump as it is hang-on-back! But IMHO, with a good skimmer, you're getting a great deal, with a poor one, not so much... 



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## CallMeKenny

carmenh said:


> Is there an ad we can look at? Someone might be able to ID it so you can google it... Is the tank drilled?
> The only brand I know of to avoid is coralife, and even that one won't be as problematic as an in-sump as it is hang-on-back! But IMHO, with a good skimmer, you're getting a great deal, with a poor one, not so much...
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It is actually a friend of mine who has some left over equipment. It is an in-sump skimmer and he told me the tank is drilled. He didn't tell me any other details though.


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## carmenh

That's good, but still hard to say whether it's a good deal without knowing what the equipment is, sorry . 


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## WiseGuyPhil

Sorry to chime in so late but I browsed over this thread and couldn't resist.

I know sump setups are great and long term they provide benefits to a reef but why does nobody recommend biocubes anymore for newbies? If your on a budget they will give you everything you need plus they are great for beginners and you can find 24-29 gal systems under $300 with lighting. Filter media, return, even small area for fuge/mangroves, etc. everything is there and they look great! Additionally, your putting an aquarium in your room.... Have you ever consider the noise that it is going to make? Unless you decide to do a herbie/bean animal overflow with sponges around your skimmer and return pump, I hope you like the sound of running water. Biocubes produce 1/5 of the noise that a sump does.

I know this has already been stated but you will be disappointed doing a DIY project for your first tank ... 

Consider this before buying the breeder:

Live rock $80-120
Sand $40-60
DIY rapid kit $120
Salt $50
Additional pumbing $20-40
Media: $20-50
Additives: $30-60
YOUR TIME: LOTS OF IT! (Remember you are in University)

Biocubes have a great resale value and you will get more for your money when you ready to jump to a larger reef. From my experience you will get 1/2 of what you payed for the Cube back. Nano-reef has some great tank shots and some great DIY lighting options. My LED setup cost me less then $80 and those who have seen it can tell you it looks great.

Just my two cents....


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## CallMeKenny

wiseguyphil said:


> Sorry to chime in so late but I browsed over this thread and couldn't resist.
> 
> I know sump setups are great and long term they provide benefits to a reef but why does nobody recommend biocubes anymore for newbies? If your on a budget they will give you everything you need plus they are great for beginners and you can find 24-29 gal systems under $300 with lighting. Filter media, return, even small area for fuge/mangroves, etc. everything is there and they look great! Additionally, your putting an aquarium in your room.... Have you ever consider the noise that it is going to make? Unless you decide to do a herbie/bean animal overflow with sponges around your skimmer and return pump, I hope you like the sound of running water. Biocubes produce 1/5 of the noise that a sump does.
> 
> I know this has already been stated but you will be disappointed doing a DIY project for your first tank ...
> 
> Consider this before buying the breeder:
> 
> Live rock $80-120
> Sand $40-60
> DIY rapid kit $120
> Salt $50
> Additional pumbing $20-40
> Media: $20-50
> Additives: $30-60
> YOUR TIME: LOTS OF IT! (Remember you are in University)
> 
> Biocubes have a great resale value and you will get more for your money when you ready to jump to a larger reef. From my experience you will get 1/2 of what you payed for the Cube back. Nano-reef has some great tank shots and some great DIY lighting options. My LED setup cost me less then $80 and those who have seen it can tell you it looks great.
> 
> Just my two cents....


Thanks for the input! I have actually never given much thought into getting a biocube because for some reason I have never really liked the look of them, but I am not really sure why. The noise shouldn't really be an issue since I am able to sleep currently with a very noisy filter running currently. I am hoping with the sump being in the stand it should still be quieter than what I am listening to right now. Also I have a very noisy budgie in my room. 

As for upgrading to a bigger tank in the future, I do not see that happening for many years until I get my own place.  I have had enough trouble talking my parents into allowing me to get a 40 gallon!


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## CallMeKenny

I have been busy, but I did manage to pick up a tank but none of the equipment yet. The tank has been drilled with two 2" holes on both sides of the tank. I have no clue how to plumb this thing so any help or links would be helpful!


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## J_T

CallMeKenny said:


> I have been busy, but I did manage to pick up a tank but none of the equipment yet. The tank has been drilled with two 2" holes on both sides of the tank. I have no clue how to plumb this thing so any help or links would be helpful!


Overflow on the one end would make sense... And doing the return on the other end maybe? Or dual slim overflows, with the return over the top. Or, silicone a glass piece over the holes (on the inside) and drill it where you want.

I am going to guess that the tank came from an in wall installation. The plumbing wouldn't have been visable.

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## CallMeKenny

J_T said:


> Overflow on the one end would make sense... And doing the return on the other end maybe? Or dual slim overflows, with the return over the top. Or, silicone a glass piece over the holes (on the inside) and drill it where you want.
> 
> I am going to guess that the tank came from an in wall installation. The plumbing wouldn't have been visable.
> 
> Posted with my Xperia, using Tapatalk 2


Do you think it would be easy to silicone glass over the holes? How thick should the glass be, and would it be very noticeable? I would prefer the holes to be on the back panel, but my other problem is drilling them as I don't have the tools available.


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## Windowlicka

CallMeKenny said:


> The tank has been drilled with two 2" holes on both sides of the tank... any help or links would be helpful!


Looks like a tank that was plumbed into a fish room, where one tank would flow into the next, etc. It won't be clean/tidy to plumb that in, but that's not to say it can't be done. (Personally, I wouldn't bother with that tank - I'd try to flip it and instead try to find a tank with a built in overflow - but that's not what you asked...)

You're in for a few $$s to buy all the necessary plumbing pieces - two 1.5" bulkheads will run you close to $30+ with taxes (+ shipping?) on their own. Try MOPS.ca as an example.

Aside from bulkheads, you'll need schedule 40 (white in colour) plastic piping and a fair few 90 & 45 degree connectors, plus unions and possibly ball or gate valves too (Lowes, or a plumbing supplies store... Don't waste your time with HD or Rona - they don't sell what you need).

Simply put, you'll need at least one line to drain into your sump (gravity fed), then one line to pump back to your tank (requiring a suitably sized pump). Two drain lines are always better though - should a snail or such block one drain, then you still have a secondary "failover" line to prevent water from overflowing the main tank and flooding of your floors. You could do that with this setup, but again, it won't be pretty, and will require more plumbing for the return line.

You'll also have to start thinking about the design for your sump about now. The physical size of your skimmer, return pump, and any other equipment you plan to locate down there will dictate the amount of space needed for the requisite sections, and therefore where your glass partitions/baffles should be installed, and finally where/how your lines will enter/exit the sump.

Typically your drain line from the tank will enter into the skimmer section of the sump first, then the water will cascade through a set of under/over baffles that will help to remove as many micro-bubbles as possible before the 'cleaned water' enters the return pump section (assuming you don't want/need/have space for a Refugium).

A friendly word of caution, some plumbing methods can be noisier than others. Standard "durso's" ~can~ create gurgling noises as air mixes with the water on the way down to the sump. "Herbie" and "Beananimal" methods are all but silent (using 'full siphon' drain, but they require more thought, planning and plumbing). Depending on the location of the tank, your tolerance to background noise, and the health of your pocketbook(!) one method might be better than another... Search using the terms in quotes for ideas - Google is your friend!


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## CallMeKenny

Well university has kept me busy, but I have had time to think about my saltwater tank. I will be moving rooms so luckily I never setup the 40gal, and instead I am going to try a nano tank first and upgrade in the future (hopefully ).

*Plan:*
Tank - Going to look for a used 14 or 29 biocube
Stand - Same stand that was going to be used for 40gal
Substrate - Sand from altcharacter
Rock - Also from altcharacter
Livestock - Depends on tank size


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## 50seven

Why don't you start out with a 10G and you can enter the nano contest! 

Of course you're still going to want to upgrade at a later date...

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## CallMeKenny

50seven said:


> Why don't you start out with a 10G and you can enter the nano contest!
> 
> Of course you're still going to want to upgrade at a later date...
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


What equipment would be needed for a 10 gallon? Lighting and a customized HOB filter?

And the "hopefully" was intended for financial issues not the wants, I obviously will want to


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## 50seven

Basically yeah, or get a biocube. Might I suggest to browse through the threads in the contest category, and you'll be sure to get some inspiration!

http://www.gtaaquaria.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=84


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## mrobson

i would strongly suggest slowly acquiring your equipment, it sounds to me like you dont really have a spot for the tank, nor the cash flow to get one off the ground or replace part/equipment if something fails. When i decided to make the jump from cichlids to SW i had a cheap planted cherry shrimp tank to tide me over until i had all my ducks in a row.A co-worker of mine saw my set up and jumped in both feet, sadly he's had his skimmer fail, 2 lights he bought used have broken, now hes a sad panda with no cash to keep things going and he has a job. Do yourself a favor take it slow and plan, plan, plan, it will help motivate you to build a set up that is right for you and not just right now


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## CallMeKenny

Thanks guys, I have been spending my study breaks researching!


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## CallMeKenny

Wanting to know opinions on lighting a 20 gallon long tank (30"). 

T5HO vs LED 

LED: Rapid ($185+$78 for hs/fan/hk) or Aquastyle ($165 with hs/fan/hk)
T5HO: Any brands? 

Will I notice a difference in evaporation between LED and T5HO?
Reasons not to go with Aquastyle over RapidLed?
Any other options I haven't considered?


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## altcharacter

T5's throw off some heat but not crazy. LED's are cooler than T5's in my opinion...unless you're running a hundred of them.

RapidLED is amazing!


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## CallMeKenny

altcharacter said:


> T5's throw off some heat but not crazy. LED's are cooler than T5's in my opinion...unless you're running a hundred of them.
> 
> RapidLED is amazing!


Is rapidled really worth the extra price? What are the major differences?

Also do you think 2 koralia 425s would be enough flow for a 20long?


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## CallMeKenny

Also what do you guys think about premixed water vs mixing it yourself?


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## CallMeKenny

Well my room is finished and the tank is in its place.

Still need to get:

- More Rock
- Salt Mix
- RO/DI Water
- Powerheads
- Light Fixture

Does anyone know any places that sells RO/DI water?


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## mrobson

CallMeKenny said:


> Does anyone know any places that sells RO/DI water?


i get mine from BA only .50 a gallon, most decent reef shops should sell it though


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## tom g

*water*

what area are u located in ,pharmacy and lawr there is a water store and she has ro water i think its like 3 dollars for a jug .dont quote me on it havnt been there in a while


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## CallMeKenny

tom g said:


> what area are u located in ,pharmacy and lawr there is a water store and she has ro water i think its like 3 dollars for a jug .dont quote me on it havnt been there in a while


Do you know how many gallons the jugs were?


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## tom g

*water*

they were the size of water jugs u would put on your water cooler


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## CallMeKenny

Well since every time I go to BigAls I end up staring at their clownfish, I thought I would ask everyone here what the minimum tank size for one would be? I have done some research but everyone had totally different opinions ranging from 5-30 gallon minimums. Obviously bigger is better, but I am not really allowed another tank, but a 5 or 10 gallon tank might go under the radar...


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## SKurj

A clown solo would go in a 10g, i think a pair would be happier in a 20+


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## CallMeKenny

SKurj said:


> A clown solo would go in a 10g, i think a pair would be happier in a 20+


Thanks for the reply! I have been getting positive feed back for a 10 gallon so I guess I will give it a shot!


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