# Is there anyone/anywhere importing wild african cichlids?



## copasetic (Nov 5, 2009)

Hey eveyone. 
Our trusted Darius has slowed down on his importing during a move, so im wondering who else in the gta and area is importing wild african cichlids???? and others. But mostly malawi's..


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Try Aquatic Designs (Jason) - I think he has an importation license.


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## copasetic (Nov 5, 2009)

pretty sure he only deals with tropheus or tropheops.


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## matti2uude (Jan 10, 2009)

You can order from Spencer Jack, he is an excellent person to deal with. 
http://www.cichlaholic.com/lists.html


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## bae (May 11, 2007)

matti2uude said:


> You can order from Spencer Jack, he is an excellent person to deal with.
> http://www.cichlaholic.com/lists.html


If anyone is planning to order from him, let me know. There are a few species he has that I'd be very pleased to get.


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## tobalman (Mar 31, 2006)

Larry Johnson

http://home.cogeco.ca/~ductapediver/larry's web page.htm

Larry Johnson is perhaps best known for his frequent dives at Lake Malawi along with Ad Konings, Pam Chin, and others. One of the founding members of the Canadian Rift Lake Cichlid Association (CRLCA), Larry is a fishroom manager for Big Al's Aquarium Services in Hamilton, Ontario Canada and has been keeping cichlids since 1975. In his spare time Larry can be found at local fish club meetings such as Hamilton & District Aquarium Society, CRLCA, and others across North America....either speaking or attending. A published author of informative articles and intriguing photographs of Malawian cichlids in the wild, we are truly honored and grateful for Larry's contributions to CichlidKeeping.com.



copasetic said:


> Hey eveyone.
> Our trusted Darius has slowed down on his importing during a move, so im wondering who else in the gta and area is importing wild african cichlids???? and others. But mostly malawi's..


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## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

GAAAAH!!!

Group order? Anyone? Spencer Jack has Australoheros!

I have NEVER seen this fish in Toronto. If you're into archocentrus, we should group buy. 

Menagerie?


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## Cory (May 2, 2008)

I wouldn't recommend spencer jack personally, had bad experience with him but if you're interested I can dig up my links. I remember quebec cichlides or something along those lines and they had a larger, cheaper selection of fish than spencer jack. His fish are also farm raised for the most part and not wc.


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## snaggle (Feb 19, 2010)

Cory said:


> I wouldn't recommend spencer jack personally, had bad experience with him but if you're interested I can dig up my links. I remember quebec cichlides or something along those lines and they had a larger, cheaper selection of fish than spencer jack. His fish are also farm raised for the most part and not wc.


Back in Edmonton every one who orders from Spencer never has any problems, I would be interested to hear what went wrong in Toronto.


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## Aquatic Designs (Apr 2, 2006)

Longer shipping means more problems. Locals would have less problems for sure no matter what or who you are dealing with.

BTW. With SFTL closed. Many of the dealers who people assumed where bringing in WC fish are now closed too. Is there some connection here. Why yes. Those other dealers were all buying off of one importer. Now that he is not bringing in fish these other guys have no one to buy from. 

There is no one in Canada bringing in WC Africans direct. At least not from any of the trusted European collectors. I have been in contact with all the good collectors and they all say they would rather deal with Europe or the US. And they are not selling to anyone in Canada at the moment. I know of a few shady dealers in Africa and they will sell to anyone. They will also take your money, sell you fish that are not what they say they are, sell you very small easy to catch fish, fish that have not yet been treated or quarinteened, that is if you even get fish and then disappear. There is no shortage of those collectors.

If people are truly serious about buying WC Africans and want a reliable source. I may be persuaded into making it happen. But I don't import from just anyone. I will only import from a trusted source. And trusted sources cost more. 

Are people willing to spend $35+ per tropheus? How bout $100+ for a frontosa? Until that happens all you will be getting is the crap that has been around for the last while. Or ship them up from the states. Canada won't get the champagne on beer budgets.


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## copasetic (Nov 5, 2009)

Thanks for the replys everyone.. Ive heard nothing but great things about Larry Johnson. But im 2hrs east of GTA so hamilton is out of reach for me. Ive still seen his nice fish at finatics tho. 
A large order is sure the way to go, but I still miss being able to go to darius' and have something new catch my eye.


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## Aquatic Designs (Apr 2, 2006)

If a few members would like to put together buying group and do an order from Africa. I could arrange everything. Minimum buy in would be around $1000. Total orders with shipping are in the 5-8 thousand dollar area. If a buying group is established we should not have more then 4 or 5 people involved as logistical issues will already be complicated and should be at as low as possible to make it worth everyone while. The more comlicated it gets the less likely it will happen.

Here is how it works.

You order fish from the list. Box lots only. There are no partial boxes. The only time they do partial boxes is when they do not have enough to fill a box. And that is rare.

There is a minimum of 10 boxes to an order. 15-20 is more the norm.

Fish start at around $5 USD each and go up to $50 or so for the harder to catch and rarer stuff. Paid to the collector in advance of shipping. Most fish are packed 36 to a box for 3-5" fish. Frontosa and larger petro's and the like 8-12 per box maybe as many as 15 if they are small. Cyps can be as many as 48 per box. Shellies a hundred or more.

Then there is shipping. Shipping is roughly $200 US per box. Give or take as i haven't brought in Africans in about 2-3 years. Must be paid before customs release the fish.

The GST is paid on the invoices. The invoice from the collector and the shipping invoice. Before customs will release the fish. If my company is bringing it in there will be taxes to be paid again for PST. If a public member brings them in the PST will be charged at customs i believe. I have never brought in anything that was not for resale so I'm not sure how it would work in that respect.

Who does the acclimation and treating? Well, you can or I can. But medication is not cheap and you will have to pay for this too. I geusstimated i used about $70-100 worth of drugs everytime I brought in WC Africans. You need to treat for parasites, bacteria, fungus for sure. If not you will have poor health fish forever or at least till they die. Which won't be long. Also be prepared that the drugs can kill them. These are wild fish and have never been medicated before. They don't take to them very well. But if they are in relative good health when they arrive they will no doubt pull thru and be fine specimens with little complications.

If anyone is serious. Send me a PM. But if you cannot afford to lose your money if the worst case happens and the fish don't make it. Don't send me a PM. The only gaurantee you will have is the fish will arrive alive. Shipping is non refundable and you get replacement. Not a cash refund. Which means if the fish are DOA. The exporter will send replacements when you re order. But you pay for shipping again.

All those who would like to buy in and cannot deal with any of the mentioned issues that may come up are advised to buy retail.


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## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

I eventually plan on a tropheus tank. I expect to pay well over $35 per fish.

People are too cheap here, I agree. 

I've gladly payed $80 for fish before, because they were a species which warranted a high price tag or were absolutely perfect examples of their species.

I've also bought fish for $3 and grown them out so well I've turned them around for forty dollars a year later. It is what it is.


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## KhuliLoachFan (Mar 8, 2008)

Aquatic Designs:

Excellent post. Should be a STICKY. And that my friends, is why a $5 wholesale fish can cost $35 retail, and be WORTH it to buy from a good LFS like Finatics. 

Because of the $1500 in total costs for the shipment that you didn't have to pay just to get your one $5 fish.

Nevertheless, I'm happy to take the LFS fish that are cheap-like-borscht yet healthy and active. Maybe if I had 10 more years into this hobby, I might be bored with cheap and plentiful locally bred fish, and really want the imported wild-caught africans. But I don't. I'll let other people breed them, and maybe (just maybe) I might buy F1s if the prices are good. 

W


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