# Need comments on substrate idea



## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

I'm just gathering ideas for a new planted tank, and I would like some comments/suggestions regarding an idea I have for substrate.

First, I'm planning to house mostly cardinal tetra in this tank, with the possibility of discus in the future. Second, this is going to be a (relatively) big tank, 55 gal long or 125 gal long, or some other long tank in between, I haven't decided yet. Third, I'm going to aim for 1-2 wpg, some CO2 injection (DIY if possible), and as little maintenance/fertilization as possible.

Now here's my idea for a substrate:

- 2" of Home Depot play sand mixed with peat moss on the bottom
- 1-2" of Fluorite Black mixed with gravel on top

I'm trying to minimize cost and just reuse the Fluorite Black I have. Also, when I used fluorite exclusively, the grains compacted too tightly and left all the crud on top of the substrate, which was rather unsightly. The idea here is that larger sized gravel will allow crud to fall between the grains and thus out of sight.

I'm thinking play sand with peat moss because:
1) it's cheap
2) it won't leach anything into the water (except tannins from the peat moss)

I'm also toying with the idea of putting rusty iron nails at the bottom in order to provide a source of iron. Is that a good or crazy idea?

Or maybe I could go with organic potting soil instead of play sand?

What do you guys think?

Oh, and the expected plants are: hygro difformis (water wisteria), hygro polysperma, vals, java moss, hornwort


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## BillD (Jun 5, 2006)

There are many that use nails or washers in the substrate. There is some dispute as to whether there is value to it as one school says the Fe is the wrong type and the other says it will be, in an anaerobic environment.


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

BillD said:


> There are many that use nails or washers in the substrate. There is some dispute as to whether there is value to it as one school says the Fe is the wrong type and the other says it will be, in an anaerobic environment.


Yay feedback! 

Yes, that's what I read as well, but I don't think 2" of sand and 1-2" of gravel is enough to create an anaerobic environment, though it will certainly be hypoxic. I wonder if iron chelation can also happen in a hypoxic environment, or does it have to be completely anaerobic?

Maybe I should go with 1" of soil + peat moss and 1" of gravel + fluorite instead?


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## chriscro (Dec 3, 2010)

play sand is a disaster.... the sand particles come in various dimensions looking weird in the tank..... also its very dirty!!!! you will have to clean it for hours atleast...

ive seen playsand also change water colour before and it takes almost a week to settle to the bottom because there is so much dust... 

just use pool filter sand or sandblasting sand its the same price looks amazing and is very clean compared to playsand.

another thing do not put any rusty nails in the substrate this will polute the water.
as for the peat, if you have a canister filter just put some in the filter and it will help alter ph. cause the peat will need to be changed and once its in the substrate you will not want to disturb it constantly to replace the peat.


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

chriscro said:


> play sand is a disaster.... the sand particles come in various dimensions looking weird in the tank..... also its very dirty!!!! you will have to clean it for hours atleast...
> 
> ive seen playsand also change water colour before and it takes almost a week to settle to the bottom because there is so much dust...
> 
> ...


Well, since the sand is going to be topped by gravel, I'm hoping that it wouldn't float all over. Although I have tried play sand in small containers before, and there does seem to be a lot of fine silt.

The use of peat moss is primary for its high CEC. PH alteration is not that big of a concern as I plan to have driftwood as well.

Maybe I should go with soil + peat then.


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## Greg_o (Mar 4, 2010)

I have used organic potting soil (influenced by Diana Walstad's au natural approac) in smaller set ups, topped with sand or gravel or flourite etc and it's great.

Haven't used it on a larger scale set up though.


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## Antoine Doinel (Dec 20, 2010)

I wouldn't toss out the play sand idea. Have had none of the problems described above, and I think it looks fantastic. I'd recommend the Kings brand from Home Depot. Has a bit darker tanned look that really looks great in planted tanks.

The only real issue is compaction, but you seem to have a handle on that.


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## pat3612 (Jan 29, 2008)

I use the Kings sand too in my 100 gal It is a natural beach sand and I havent had any problems with it just needs rinsing a couple of times and it clears in a day or two.You just to be careful when cleaning the glass .


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## mrobson (Mar 5, 2011)

ive always used flourite, i just set up a 28g planted shrimp tank with flourite
black.I use trumpet snails to prevent compaction as they live in and clean the substrate while helping with aeration.

http://gtaaquaria.com/forum/showthread.php?p=178056#post178056


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## chriscro (Dec 3, 2010)

the real question is why use playsand which has a much higher dust/dirt 
or pool filter sand/sandblasting which is filtered for particle size and is not nearly as dirty??

price is also the same...


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## Antoine Doinel (Dec 20, 2010)

PFS is a very good option if you can find a colour you like, which isn't easy. The white/off white stuff is pretty repulsive in my opinion. Have never tried sandblasting sand, though I'm sure it would be a good option, especially if you wanted more colour options.

The dirt/dust debate is pretty irrelevant though. Wash the stuff properly and your tank will be clean the next day. I can't speak for all brands of sand, but this is true of Kings.


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

chriscro said:


> the real question is why use playsand which has a much higher dust/dirt
> or pool filter sand/sandblasting which is filtered for particle size and is not nearly as dirty??
> 
> price is also the same...


Why? Because I've got a big bag of it sitting at home. 

I know play sand is dirty, I experimented with them before. That's why I thought of putting them on the bottom layer, but now I think that even then, I might get silt disturbance if I ever try pulling up a plant...


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## shikrai (Nov 6, 2010)

I just saw your post and i have a sugestion,I had a 75 g in the U.S.,The tank had a 1-2" layer of strained miracle grow organic topsoil which had been strained through a wire mesh to get rid of wood pieces and was topped with what is in the states called black beauty sandblasting media.I had mixed some potters clay in with the organic soil .The result was my crypts were thriving along with all my other plants.It was a very cost effective solution and plan to use the same material once I set up my tank here as well.


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

shikrai said:


> I just saw your post and i have a sugestion,I had a 75 g in the U.S.,The tank had a 1-2" layer of strained miracle grow organic topsoil which had been strained through a wire mesh to get rid of wood pieces and was topped with what is in the states called black beauty sandblasting media.I had mixed some potters clay in with the organic soil .The result was my crypts were thriving along with all my other plants.It was a very cost effective solution and plan to use the same material once I set up my tank here as well.


Thanks for your suggestion! In fact, I had been thinking of something along those lines as well, except I was planning to try making Mineralized Topsoil, topped by Fluorite. I think using fluorite would do away with the need for clay and dolomite, while at the same time providing a nice looking substrate.


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## chriscro (Dec 3, 2010)

potters clay = awesome
some clay in any growing is effective in aquariums or "above water"

substrate is all about experience and opinion just like everything. by all means if thats what you got make the best of it. im all about cheap alternativers


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