# Angelfish Fry Care



## DaFishMan (Dec 19, 2006)

Hello,

Monday July 19 in the evening found some angel eggs in the 75g community tank. I left the light on to help the parents guard. I've had my first angel hatch  There are 25-30 fry at approx day 4 of free swimming stage now.

I have frozen bbs I melt a cube in a small bowl with a bit of water. I let it get to room temp then try to get it to them with an oral doser, 3-4 times daily one dropperful. The parents interfere being protective although they know it's food. Trying to get tiny food to baby fish in a 75g plant tank - like finding a needle in a haystack. Luckily there's alot of algae on their side on the glass which they graze from ( I read moss is good in a bare breeding tank, the algae is almost THAT thick) I try to get some of the bbs trapped in there so they can find some, and did see a couple eating the bbs. The parents are doing a great job guarding as well as keeping them herded into a small area. 

I don't plan on going pro but would like to see at least half of these fry live 

When is it safe to do a water change ? I did a small topoff last night by bucket instead of using the python, that went ok.

I'm thinking move them from the big tank soon as poss. The guarding light causing too much algae it will end up wiping the plants, unless I can get in there and manually remove most of it, leaving some on the glass in their area. Thinking this could freak the parents too much which could cause them to eat the fry. Once that light goes off the tankmates will find the fry that don't get sucked into the filters first. 

Should I move the fry to the 25g tank in the bedroom (mts snails in there keeping it cycled), nisso substrate (small aquasoil pellets) the small hob filter already has sponge over it. Its already at temp. And if so when is it safe to move them ?

Or should I setup a bare 10g - I have all the stuff including sponge filter, heater and could throw some moss and mts snails in. If going that route I'd have to cycle the sponge filter in an established tank - how long will that take ? I know a breeder would say go bare tank for the fry. 

I have this stuff hanging around (not tried yet): hikari first bites for egglayers, liquifry, mixed fishfoods blended into poweder, also BBS eggs but no hatchery. When do you start switching up the diet ? 

Idea: in either of the other tanks I could prob submerge a small bowl and shoot the bbs into that so it doesn't get lost in the substrate & making it easy to find ?

Looking for some direction and ideas pls, thanks !


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## DaFishMan (Dec 19, 2006)

After the fry part is dealt with, I would like to see the parents have a chance to fully heal from their mating and fighting wounds for once. It always gets worse. Would it be ok to separate them for a few months or will that break the pair bond or cause separation issues ? (one would go into different tank)


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## DaFishMan (Dec 19, 2006)

Being the long weekend, and I'm off next week I was hoping to go away for a few days now I don't even think that's possible lol.


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## BillD (Jun 5, 2006)

Congrats on the fry and the parents taking care of them. If the fry are eating enough they will have pink/orange bellies. You have the right idea bout feeding them although you may have better luck with something longer like a turkey baster. in my experience, live BBS is the best and you don't need a "hatcher" to hatch them out. You could float an inverted soda bottle in the tank and hatch them in there. With the warm weather and higher temps you could also just use a jar or bottle and hatch them in that. You won't need a huge amount for that size of hatch, perhaps an 1/8 to 1/4 tsp per day. BBS will hatch in 18 to 24 hours at 80F. You will still have to deliver them without having the other tank members get them. The best bet would be a separate tank, but you would be better to have it set up in advance, although you could get by with doing large water changes in the 80% daily range. It might be best to try and save some of these, but if not get setup for the next batch with the parents in their own tank.
It is safe to move them at any time.


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## DaFishMan (Dec 19, 2006)

Thanks for the advice Bill 

They've gotten this far grazing infusoria or such off the algae but haven't seen that color so they need more shrimp, as suspected. They won't get it in that tank except the bits they get by sheer luck.

The 25g is cycled thanks to mts snails, close to temp, hob filter but already a sponge over it, and the flow is gentle - Could I transfer them directly once matching the temp or should I include about 20g of their water to reduce stress/shock/loss ? Thinking I could put a couple clumps of moss in there, then at feeding time shoot the shrimp onto the moss so they can graze it. It's not a bare tank, but it's something and should make feeding easier ?

If I'm going to attempt to siphon them out I also have to wait till the parents herd them back to the front of the tank IF they do, but I could start switching water in advance and hope for that 'magic' moment with the siphon lol.


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## BillD (Jun 5, 2006)

Is there a chance the water has greatly different parameters in the 25? if there is I would consider setting up the 10 with water from the 75 (perhaps half), and try to start the sponge filter by scrubbing the glass with the sponge. to seed it. You will have a very small bioload, so a big rise in ammonia won't likely happen while the sponge filter establishes. As well, you will want to siphon uneaten food daily and do a daily water change. This is why the bare bottomed tank is the best way to go. 
When I had spawns, I had as many as 400 fry in a 2 1/2 gallon tank for a couple of weeks, doing daily 80% water changes. The advantage of the small tank is the fry are always close to their food, and of course the disadvantage is that the water needs to be changed in large quantities daily. 
I don't know if splitting the pair will break the bond, but if they are young they will be ready to go again in 2 weeks or less after you remove the fry. I have never split a pair, but a good feeding is the way to get them back in shape. The once a day, barely feeding regimen, is not adequate for fish that are preparing to spawn, in my experience. You risk weak fry that don't survive. If this is the very first spawn, you can expect the next one to be bigger.


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## DaFishMan (Dec 19, 2006)

The 75 will be higher in nitrates and phosphates otherwise should be close. I'd want to mix some of the water to help even it out. At the same time, I'm equally pulled to set up the bare ten. Thanks again for the help !

Few small batches for learning and enjoyment the only immediate goal. I don't want to get intense into raising huge batches of fry regularly I'd burn out. Live bbs never cultured it before I should give it a whirl, wouldn't mind finding some walter worms too.

The parents are normally fed twice a day plus treats. It's increased since the eggs hatched. 4x daily plus treats. I'm interested in adding frozen bloodworms and mysis shrimp as additional treats. 

I'm getting them out of the 75 saturday if there's still fry.
Hows that e latifolius doing stiill growing like gangbusters ?


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## BillD (Jun 5, 2006)

Just back, how are things? E. latifolius kind of stalled since last replant.


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## DaFishMan (Dec 19, 2006)

I was down to 11 by the time I did the move and they didn't move well. Food was an issue as well they didn't get enough of the frozen bbs. Like you said this is a learning process so I learned a bit more for next time and I'll have to use a bare 10, and learn to culture bbs.

My vals crept over to where the e latifolius are hard to tell whats what in the front lol.


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## bettaforu (Sep 6, 2009)

Hi, I have been feeding live bbs to my 3 day free swimming fry. What I do is put a small dropper thru the floating plants on the surface and squirt them downwards where the fry are congregated.

Momma and Poppa are always watching, so they don't see the dropper thru the plants, and I think this gives the little fry an advantage over them to gobble up some food before the adults get to it.

Can't seem to get my tank fry educated to hunt all over the 2.5 gallon for the BBS they just congregate in the one corner, I constantly have to swim them out with the turkey baster to get them across the tank for more food.

So far I haven't seen any dead ones  I have a couple of independant fry that take off over the other side of the planted tank hunting for food....Parents get mad and go charging after them to bring them back to the fold...its funny to watch.

Funny thing happened last night....when I feed them they will come to the front of the tank no problem, and are not afraid, I can put my finger on the glass and they don't do anything. Last night my husband went to look in the tank and they charged the glass at him  Guess they know who feeds them eh?


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## bettaforu (Sep 6, 2009)

I just noticed some of my fry are developing the dorsal already....looks like a black dot on the bit behind where their heads are....they are not even 10 days old yet? Am I doing something wrong?


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## DaFishMan (Dec 19, 2006)

It sounds like you're doing great with your fry bettaforu and congrats ! 

I freed up room in the rack to set up a couple small tanks. I'll make another attempt at raising some fry soon


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## bettaforu (Sep 6, 2009)

The parents are still herding their offspring around, with the exception of 2 of the rogues, who constantly head off in the opposite direction to escape from Mom and Dad 

Tank babies are still eating good too...I am feeding them with BBS and Earthworm powder mixed with tank water for those that are too small to grab a BBS. Some pink bellies and some not, so figured these ones might get some of the earthworm powder at least.

Just ordered some Phillipine Blue Ghosts and Paraiba's from the US, and maybe getting some from Fairdeals depending on shipping cost.

Got the Angelfish bug now...


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## bettaforu (Sep 6, 2009)

OH sad news today seem to have lost almost all of the babies in the Parents tank, don't know if they died or they ate them. I don't think they were getting enough of the food even though I was squirting the BBS at them, they didn't seem to want to eat them. I did manage to grab 4 of the ones that were left and put them in the mini tank with the others.

Babies in the mini tank however are doing well, all had big pink bellies last night and are all checking out whatever is for eating in the tank.

I put the slate back in the Parents tank to see if they might start again, and this time I will remove all of them.


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## DaFishMan (Dec 19, 2006)

Sorry to hear you lost some fry, good save on the 4 though. The angelfish bug has had me awhile, and SA dwarfs too  

Its a crazy week so far no time to prepare for the next hatch I have to go thru my stuff and pull out sponge filter etc. Probably need to buy a can of bbs eggs somewhere unless I can use the eggs I have in the small container. Is the hatch rate worth it or should I buy a can somewhere ?


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## bettaforu (Sep 6, 2009)

Yeah I know I was sooo dissappointed the parents were doing such a good job too, but I think the babies just didn't know what these things were and in a big tank they just dissapated too fast.

I understand now why major breeders raise the fry in big Gallon Jars its so the babies can see the BBS and then they get enough to eat, but in a tank that's not so easy....plus parents eating the BBS too.

As for the BBS hatching. I had a carton sealed in my freezer and Ive been using that....seems the eggs are still viable because there was NO moisture inside the container! I had mixed the eggs with the salt ahead of time when I was raising Bettas, so I figured OK I will see if anything hatches and they did.

I am now starting another batch so I can alternate between the hatches, I find if I don't use up enough of the BBS that have hatched they die in the container and then its useless. This way I will have new batches hatching on alternate days. 

Just ordered my Paraiba's and Blue Ghosts from the US...should have them this weekend. They are only dime sized, but that's OK as I am going to raise them and then see who pairs off.

I still think its worth it, even if it is a hassle...just seeing the little guys getting bigger and developing into Angels is fun.


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## DaFishMan (Dec 19, 2006)

I didn't get to see much development but enough to want to see the next stage.


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## loonie (Mar 29, 2008)

Yes I agree some angels are good parents. But to be on the safe side, I always remove the eggs to a ten/gallon tank to raise the fries. I normally use a PVC pipe for them to lay their eggs on. Just sharing my two cents experience.

Just seen, BigAls Mississauga has some altums angels in, not ready for sale yet.


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## DaFishMan (Dec 19, 2006)

You're 2 cents is welcome here loonie thx


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## bettaforu (Sep 6, 2009)

Well it looks like they are getting ready to do it again  They are cleaning off the leaves on my Java Fern plant meticulously! I noticed they both have the protruding appendages too....guess this time I will take the whole leaf once the eggs are on it.

So far the tank raised ones are surviving. I can see markings on them already developing on the head and body under a magnifier!


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## bettaforu (Sep 6, 2009)

Question: In Angelfish do the offspring resemble more one parents than the other?? It happens in horse breeding where the offspring is usually more like the mother, so I am wondering if this has ever been documented in Angelfish.

I now know which is which...and my female is the very orange headed one with more striking black stripes on her body and she's a tad smaller than the male.


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## bettaforu (Sep 6, 2009)

I tricked the parents today and snapped off the leaf that had the eggs on them...now they are hunting around for them  I feel like such a bad person doing this to them 

Hopefully the eggs will hatch in my new setup, but if not Im sure they will keep giving me more 

Meanwhile the fry are just thriving in their 2.5 gallon tank, so will be moving them to a bigger 5 gallon in a couple of weeks. They are growing like weeds.


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## loonie (Mar 29, 2008)

You have remove the eggs to another tank, please ensure you add meth/blue or something to avoid fungus. The chances are 80 to 90percent success that they will hatch unless the eggs are not fertiliesed. My experience 90percent hatched and only few eggs turning white.


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## DaFishMan (Dec 19, 2006)

Thanks to Carmenh I now have 2 small bbs hatchery kits plus a jar of eggs. 
This should REALLY help


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