# Some cycling help -- high nitrite and high nitrate levels



## FONE (May 21, 2013)

*Some cycling help -- high nitrite and high nitrate levels [CYCLED!]*

Had a mini discussion on the Idiot's Guide to Cycling, and thought it would be better to have this as a separate thread.

Good news and bad news for my fishless cycling.

Ammonia levels are dropping. I was at 4-5ppm, and now am down to 1ppm, so it looks like the process is underway.

Nitrite and Nitrate levels seem to be extremely high!
Nitrite: 5+ ppm
Nitrate: 80+ ppm

Questions
Is this normal? 
Or do I need to keep doing PWCs to bring these back down?
Should I stop dosing with Ammonia right now?

Please help. Thanks!


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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

No, keep doing what you're doing. Eventually, there will be enough bacteria to process all of the chemincals and you'll see the nitrite begin to drop. Just be patient, that's the hardest part to cycling a tank.
If at any point, you are feel strongly about doing something. A partial water change might set your mind at ease. But sometimes, the more you tamper with things, the worst it gets.

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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

should see nitrites start to go down soon, once they are going down, then you will need water changes to get nitrates down.


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

The fact you have both nitrite and nitrate readings means you have both kinds of bacteria working for you now. It should not be too, too much longer before there are enough of them to bring the nitrites down, and then, as has been said, you get the nitrates under control via water changes.

Having a number of plants in the tank should assist in lowering nitrate levels, if you don't have any yet, it's a good time to add some, or add more to what you may have in there already. Either minor or major duckweed makes a great nitrate sucker, and if you don't want it later on, removing it entirely before you stock a tank is not too hard. Scoop with a sieve or net and dump it - check the filter for any that may have been sucked up or stuck to the intake if you want it all gone. All the nitrates it has processed go with it. 

It can be a bit harder to remove once you have fish and plants, because big sweeping scoops with a net will be harder to do. So some will be missed and reproduce again. Duckweed's a love/hate kind of thing for many of us. Works great, but we often get tired of trying to keep it from building up in too large numbers. But it will always suck up nitrates, so it's not all bad by any means.

Or you can toss out enough to prevent it taking over and let it continue to work for you. Other floaters that are good for this are frogbit and the floating version of Water Sprite. Many of the stem plants that grow relatively fast are also great for reducing nitrates, and you can take cuttings of most to replant or rejuvenate them. Like hygro difformis, for example, just one of many.


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## FONE (May 21, 2013)

Thanks for all the advice so far, everyone!

An update on the readings:

Ammonia: < 0.25 ppm
Nitrite: > 5.0 ppm

I've essentially stopped dosing with ammonia, to give the second type of bacteria some time to catch up.

Should I keep with the current regiment and let the plants in the tank provide what ammonia they can from melting leaves? Or do I need to keep dosing so I keep the first set of bacteria healthy?

Please let me know. I get the feeling I should just wait it out, but I'm worried about having to restart this whole thing.

Thanks!


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

keep dosing or the bacteria that eat ammonia will die off


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## FONE (May 21, 2013)

Thanks for the advice pyrrolin.

Just dripped in 1.5 mLs or so, to keep it going.

I'm noticing that my plants aren't really staying so well in the gravel... and thinking at some point, I will need to add more gravel and replant some of the things also, but I think I'm going to wait for the tank to be cycled first.

It sucks not knowing all this stuff beforehand.


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

should have over 1 inch of gravel, 2 inches would be lots. Some of us put organic potting soil about 1 inch and then cap it off with gravel, about 1 inch.


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## FONE (May 21, 2013)

I have various gradients in the gravel right now, some by design, some by needing to "pile up" the gravel to hold down some stems.

The gravel that is in there was washed with tap water, and sat in some conditioned water overnight before going on. Is this is proper procedure for introducing new gravel now? I'm using some decorative gravel from MARINA, and it still has a smell after washing.

Would it be too disruptive to the tank to add more at this point?

Thanks for the advice.


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

just rinse well, the tiny bit of chlorine that would be on it would be almost nothing so I wouldn't even worry about it.

I don't know of any possible problems with just adding more gravel.

At my local petsmart, they often have lots of the metal strips that hold groups of plants together sitting in their plant display that I can get for free and I use these when needed to hold plants down.

with a good bed of gravel, you should be fine for any plants that have roots without using anything to hold them down, they are mostly for cut offs that don't have roots.

In this hobby there are many right ways of doing things, we all have our own methods for doing stuff.

There are also many wrong ways to do things, such as pouring a jug of bleach into your tank will kill any algae, but it will also kill everything else.


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## FONE (May 21, 2013)

I'm going to see if I have time to get that done tonight, and maybe replant a bunch of things, because right now the tank looks unnecessarily crowded. 

I can definitely see the value of having a pair of planting pliers/tongs -- just need to find where I can get them on a budget.

Still sitting at extremely high nitrite levels, and dropping ammonia levels. Keep dosing with about 1-2 mL of ammonia daily, just to keep stuff going.

I'm wondering if I need to do some PWCs in order to keep things moving, on the nitrite side.

Thoughts? Appreciate all the feedback.


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

There are times that the cycling can get stalled and some water changes are needed. Maybe try a 25 percent wc and see what that does.


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## FONE (May 21, 2013)

Did a water change with no change in nitrite levels it seems. Going to wait some more and see what happens. 

On a different matter, seems someone I got plants from had snails, because now I have them. They're not MTS, because they sit on leaves. Right now they're little black dots, and I've found some reddish orange ones too. 

What do I need to do to get rid of them? I don't want to throw a penny in there because I plan on keeping shrimp at some point. 

Advice appreciated. I've also reached out to the folks I got plants from. 

Thanks.


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

There are a few options

Assassin snails, which eat snails

If the tank is large enough and fits into your plans, a loach would be good, clown loaches and yoyo botia are great for eating snails. I have yoyo's in one tank and clowns in another and those tanks have zero snails. My other tanks without loaches have snails. I have one tank that was totally infested with snails that I added 5 or 6 assassin snails to over a month ago and there are still snails but I believe there are less and eventually the population will be negligible. Some other fish eat snails also, I often pick out a few snails and drop them into my main tank and my festivum absolutely loves them, he nips my fingers if I put them in without a snail.

Pick them out by hand daily and keep at it for weeks and you just might be able to get rid of them with lots of luck if you catch it early enough

Totally restart the tank, a bit drastic but has a good chance of working

Live with them and let them clean your glass of algae


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## xriddler (Feb 16, 2012)

I have snails and they are good detritus eaters i have red rams i pick them out with a shrimp net and i have two assassin snails to help a little bit. You can also use No planaria a organic fix for snails but i heard that its not quite effective against ramhorns. If you really don't want snails and you want shrimps in there your best bet is to restart the tank though.


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## FONE (May 21, 2013)

I'm doing some manual plucking on the snail front, and going to try the lettuce trick I've been reading about online. But these buggers are tiny little specks, so I'm not sure if the lettuce thing will work with them.

It's been 7 days since I've seen the nitrite spike, but still I'm getting bright fuschia when I'm testing [using the API kit], indicating 5+ ppm.

I've done two PWCs altogether, so I'm not sure what else I can do except keep waiting right now.

I also found a hitchhiker shrimp in my tank yesterday. A tiny little thing, but it seems to be enjoying the driftwood and dwarf hair grass.


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## xriddler (Feb 16, 2012)

im surprised the shrimps okay with such high readings. you can only control the snails using the lettuce method since not all the snails will congregate to it. just learn to love them  they wont harm you and the only thing they are good at is eating detritus and left overs did i say win win?


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## FONE (May 21, 2013)

I've started picking out the ones [snails] I can see, but there's no end to them. I'm putting them into a smaller container right now, and maybe use them as food for something in the future, who knows.

The lone shrimp is super tough to find in the tank, but it's still around circa this morning. I don't have anywhere else to put it, since I don't have any cycled water -- hopefully it can survive until the cycle.

No change on the nitrites, though. Still > 5.0 ppm, which is really frustrating right now.


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

I am thinking do a 25 percent wc daily until you see something under 5 so you can actually read it.


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## FONE (May 21, 2013)

Good news! Nitrites are down to 0.25 ppm! And nitrates are low too [ < 5.0 ppm] -- I think it's because of all the plants.

I did a 25% PWC, and cleaned up the sides of the tank, possibly getting rid of a lot of that anaerobic bacteria I was reading about [that is eating up the ammonia]. I think the tank is pretty much cycled, which is good news for the shrimp in there too [if I can find it again].

Thanks for everyone's advice!

Unrelated side story, I found one of the pond snails I pulled out and put into a smaller container *outside* the container when I got home, and the shell seems empty. Where could it have gone? Did it die?

I've since covered up the contained with a small lid.


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

I the ammonia and nitrite say at 9 for two days, then I would say you are cycled and ready for fish.


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## xriddler (Feb 16, 2012)

did you put water with it? it is a aquatic invert with no water it'll just dry up in the shell looking like it left but its dead inside.


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## FONE (May 21, 2013)

There's water with the snails. I put the shell back in the water, and it looks like it's back in business. It sure seemed awfully light when it was outside.

Tank seems to be doing well now. I added in 2.5-3.0 ppm ammonia last night, and today the readings are:

Ammonia: ~0 ppm
Nitrite: ~0 ppm
Nitrate: ~0 ppm

I'm surprised at the nitrate level, but maybe all the plants I have in the 10g [frogbits, water lettuce, anubias nana, hydro something, ambulia, hairgrass, watersprite, amazon sword, mossball] are soaking it all up??

Is this possible?


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

very possible, plants do help a lot.

Now go buy a few fish


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## FONE (May 21, 2013)

Thanks for all the advice up until now. Very helpful, especially with the frustration of waiting for the cycle.

I have a dilemma now, in that I'm going to vacation for 2 weeks, and am not sure what to do with the cycled tank.

Options are:
* get family to keep dosing with ammonia to 2 ppm daily
* get an algae eater fish and let the tank self sustain
* get some shrimp and let tank self sustain
* leave tank and re-cycle on return

What do you guys think I should do?


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

hard one, first you shouldn't have started a tank so close to leaving for a while.

Best thing would probably be stocking it with a few of the fish you want to have and have someone feed them daily and have the lights on a timer

Better to have someone feed them than try to dose ammonia for you. You could also just feed once every two days if you have to, the fish would be fine for a short while that way. I skip a feeding once in a while myself.

If you have live plants which I believe you do, and lots of them, the fish can survive for quite a while just from the plants. Some people make self sustaining tanks that they never feed and just top off with water, nothing else needed.


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## FONE (May 21, 2013)

Thanks for the quick response. I didn't realize how long it would take to cycle or what I needed to do to keep the cycle going before getting started.

I think there's a good chance that someone can drop the ammonia for me in there daily, so that might be the way to go, though I realize it may not be the best option.

Some superstition in the family is an obstacle to me putting in fish while I'm away, in case something happens to the fish, which might be a bad omen. 

I guess I can spend the time planning on the stock for the tank. Maybe should create another thread about that.


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## max88 (Aug 6, 2009)

FONE said:


> Thanks for all the advice up until now. Very helpful, especially with the frustration of waiting for the cycle.
> 
> I have a dilemma now, in that I'm going to vacation for 2 weeks, and am not sure what to do with the cycled tank.
> 
> ...


I would not add ammonia/fish/shrimp. Just leave the tank, with filter running and light on timer (reduced photoperiod). Your tank will self sustain with plants. In the worst case just re-cycle.


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