# Taiwan Bee keeping



## arc (Mar 11, 2010)

Some background info first, Taiwan Bee are Wine Red, Blue Bolts, Black Pandas, Black King Kong...etc

So I recently saw this on a different forum.

I can't account for the validity of the hidden "secret" statement to breeding since I don't have any of these shrimp. If it is true, I wouldn't imagine anyone buying any unless you are willing buy new stock every year or start experimenting with hundreds/thousands of dollar of shrimp.

Can anyone share any experiences with these shrimp?


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## Beijing08 (Jul 19, 2010)

arc said:


> Some background info first, Taiwan Bee are Wine Red, Blue Bolts, Black Pandas, Black King Kong...etc
> 
> So I recently saw this on a different forum.
> 
> ...


does that imply you intend to keep them in the near future? 
sorry I have no input atm...never tried it either


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## Fergus (Jul 11, 2011)

I have no input, other than that it is despicable to compartmentalize the information needed to keep them alive. You charge a lot for your shrimp because they have beautiful and rare colorations that you have selectively bred. It's grisly and heartless to put profit above an animal's life.

it's like selling someone a cat, and refusing to let people know what to feed it. As though it were a perishable commodity.


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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

I've never kept Taiwan bees before, but I can't imagine what's so difficult about them?
Have you read our Cyrstal shrimp 101 post yet?
I would assume it's the same method. I think a few of our members have kept and maybe even breed a few BP and BKK.
Anyway, refering back to the guy who post in Shrimpnow. I think the first thing he got wrong was that even if his friend's shrimp were burried, it's not an indication that he got the water parameter right. It just means he got the food right.

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## arc (Mar 11, 2010)

I like the colour and intensity of them but more than happy to keep just CRS/CBS. Love seeing hundreds graze on plants and swarm food. This bit of info(if true) on top of the price is a deterrent thought since I'm unlikely to reproduce the effect. 

I see Fergus' point of view and agree with it but it's like any monopoly or pet animal business. Animal welfare will always come second to profits, all you can do is provide a good home to the animals you have. Not providing optimal parameter's because you want to eliminate competition at the cost of the animal's life is another thing though.....

I get the feeling that it's an open secret, where the breeder will not confirm or advise you on it but the techniques have been discussed before. With any luck, a few years from now, it'll be enough breeders to help out the rest of us. This should be a warning to those who intend to breed them.


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## getochkn (Jul 10, 2011)

arc said:


> I like the colour and intensity of them but more than happy to keep just CRS/CBS. Love seeing hundreds graze on plants and swarm food. This bit of info(if true) on top of the price is a deterrent thought since I'm unlikely to reproduce the effect.
> 
> I see Fergus' point of view and agree with it but it's like any monopoly or pet animal business. Animal welfare will always come second to profits, all you can do is provide a good home to the animals you have. Not providing optimal parameter's because you want to eliminate competition at the cost of the animal's life is another thing though.....
> 
> I get the feeling that it's an open secret, where the breeder will not confirm or advise you on it but the techniques have been discussed before. With any luck, a few years from now, it'll be enough breeders to help out the rest of us. This should be a warning to those who intend to breed them.


I recently got into shrimp but I imagine years ago they were the same way with crystals, and to some extent, still are. Until we started seeing pics and hearing from people like crystal who went over there and talked to them and learn things like they never do water changes, have like 5 filters chained together in a row, low low ph, etc, people would get crystals (and still do, and throw them in tap water and get no breeding or very little.)


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## Ebi-Ken (Jul 9, 2010)

Zebrapl3co said:


> I've never kept Taiwan bees before, but I can't imagine what's so difficult about them?
> Have you read our Cyrstal shrimp 101 post yet?
> I would assume it's the same method. I think a few of our members have kept and maybe even breed a few BP and BKK.
> Anyway, refering back to the guy who post in Shrimpnow. I think the first thing he got wrong was that even if his friend's shrimp were burried, it's not an indication that he got the water parameter right. It just means he got the food right.





arc said:


> I like the colour and intensity of them but more than happy to keep just CRS/CBS. Love seeing hundreds graze on plants and swarm food. This bit of info(if true) on top of the price is a deterrent thought since I'm unlikely to reproduce the effect.
> 
> I see Fergus' point of view and agree with it but it's like any monopoly or pet animal business. Animal welfare will always come second to profits, all you can do is provide a good home to the animals you have. Not providing optimal parameter's because you want to eliminate competition at the cost of the animal's life is another thing though.....
> 
> I get the feeling that it's an open secret, where the breeder will not confirm or advise you on it but the techniques have been discussed before. With any luck, a few years from now, it'll be enough breeders to help out the rest of us. This should be a warning to those who intend to breed them.


Stephan was actually referring to me and Taiwan bees are not difficult and yes you can most definitely keep them in CRS water and they will breed but nowhere near the same survival rate for babies as CRS. You need to pay extra attention to what toxins you have in your tank for even a slightly close to 50% survival rate. The survival rates were one of the determining factors of price and if everyone knew how to increase survival rate to a similar and over survival rate of crs. Whose stopping the hobbyist from selling it at a rediculously low price? no one. Which is why those who have invested in the hobby to be able to keep an "expensive" shrimp would detour away from it.

What Stephan refers it as a secret, isn't a secret in a sense that you can't figure it out. Its a secret because we as breeders have spent so much more time in figuring it out and using different thinking methods to obtain successful ways into increasing survival rate of babies. There are ways to even breed them and keep them in bare tanks. There is a way to up the survival rate of babies. But whether or not its viewed as a secret or a unsold "patent" depends on how you view it.

look here for another experienced shrimp keeper who experiences the same thing.
http://socalaquascapers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10714


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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

Oh, who is Stephen?
Well, as a CRS breeder myself. I have to say in defence that it's not really that breeders that don't share, it's a matter of people who don't listen and then there is the fact that you may be held accountable and even accused of something worst, like lying to cause the other person's expensive shrimp death. You want proof about being ignored? Copper sulfate, Seachem excel and hydrogen peroxide.
There is more than just one way to keep CRS. That's why I am pointing you guys to the Crystal Shrimp 101 thread. That's a very good text book example of how to keep CRS. It allows you to control the amount of stuff in your water and gives you the best chance of at the very least retaining the next generation. This fact alone already gives around 1 1/2 years of experiences that it took me to arrive at the same point. If you want to be one of the best, you will never find a text book example handed to you. It's up to you to unlock that yourself and work out your own method.
Why?
It's because we live in a very big world. I can drive 2 hours down any direction and the water of that region could have been different (if you choose to use tap water). What works for me won't work for Ebi-Ken or Asian breeders for that matter. And what works for them, might not work for me.
Pay attention to your shrimps. I can sit for 1 hour and just look at my shrimps. Sometimes you get really good hints about what you're doing wrong.
For example:
- poor colour -> diet problem.
- poor white -> stress indication - water chemistry
- how fast do they molt? too often - water chemistry
- bacteria infections - poor water quality

Anyway, I am ranting ... but I think you get the idea. It's not as easy to share as you think. That's why a lot good breeders have to be very careful about what they say. It can ruin their own reputation even if they are right.

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## Ebi-Ken (Jul 9, 2010)

Zebrapl3co said:


> Oh, who is Stephen?
> Well, as a CRS breeder myself. I have to say in defence that it's not really that breeders that don't share, it's a matter of people who don't listen and then there is the fact that you may be held accountable and even accused of something worst, like lying to cause the other person's expensive shrimp death. You want proof about being ignored? Copper sulfate, Seachem excel and hydrogen peroxide.


Stephan is the guy username mananap on SN who uses the word "secret" to depict the methods for optimal breeding of TB.

For the rest.... im not following. The OP said this:


arc said:


> I can't account for the validity of the hidden "secret" statement to breeding since I don't have any of these shrimp. If it is true, I wouldn't imagine anyone buying any unless you are willing buy new stock every year or start experimenting with hundreds/thousands of dollar of shrimp.
> 
> Can anyone share any experiences with these shrimp?


talking about the validity of there being a secret for for breeding. I just only explained that for high survival rates of babies there are methods to optimize it. But in terms of keeping it and breeding it "normally" that isnt a secret and i provided an example from a different forum.


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