# How expensive and/or time consuming is it to set up a reef tank?



## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

I know jack squat about marine tanks, but I'm interested in learning. I'm not looking for a step-by-step list, just some price ranges and how time consuming the setup and maintenance are. Especially the maintenance, I would think.


----------



## Big Ray (Dec 8, 2009)

main. minimum would be like water change on the weekends and 10-15 min a night feeding and cleaning. maximum ? you will end up becoming crazy fish guy  like me haha


price can honestly be as high as you can afford lol or a couple hundred bucks, 300-500 to get a decent small set up going.


----------



## Jmbret (Nov 6, 2010)

reefs are very consuming hobbies. 

You can start off small, small tank, small equipment, a little livestock and start learning cheaply. <$300. 

The problem is that as you encounter problems and start learning more about reefs you realize your system is not running as efficiently as it could be. 
For example with me right now I am trying to resolve water issues. More water changes = more time consuming and money spent
Currently I am deciding if I want to upgrade to a RO unit. Approx cost will be $150 and research time learning about filter membranes and total dissolved solids etc. 


Also there is the issue of wanting to upgrade your equipment. sooner or later you will want to. 
(Eg, Better lights means better coral growth)


I would recommend envisioning your dream setup and costing it out. 
I think everybody in this hobby looking back would agree that they never thought they would be so addicted and so into it. But at a certain point in life, other things take priority and your hobbies should experienced with moderation.

I spent <$100 when I started out in the fish hobby, had 3 small tanks and bred Swordtails. I don't regret my move into saltwater but like most hobbies you should experience in moderation. Also just know this is not something you can just set it up and forget about (if you want to be successful) 

Hope this helps 

- Jb


----------



## gucci17 (Oct 11, 2007)

I'll chime in with my little bit of experience so far. The most time consuming aspect of a saltwater setup for me so far is the research. You want to make sure you have a pretty good understanding of how things work. Not to mention, learning from people's mistakes will reduce the number of your own mistakes. Which inadvertently leads to less money wasted hopefully. You also don't want to cheap out on parts that you will only end up replacing when it breaks down or doesn't perform as expect. Then you end up paying more because you end up with what you originally wanted to buy in the first place. 

I'm not saying over extend yourself and put yourself into debt over a fish tank but be realistic at the same time. I know I cannot afford the top of the line products but I will try buy the upper tier of mid range products even used if it's in good condition. The performance increase between these two tiers can be very minimal for certain equipment IMO. But the gap between cheap stuff and mid range is quite large and obvious.

If you're patient, that works even more in your favour as you can wait out on great second hand deals. Plus, the fact that you need alot of patience in this part of the hobby in the first place.


----------



## 50seven (Feb 14, 2010)

Don't start a reef tank. You think you are getting into a hobby? No way! This is an addiction, my friend. You start up a reef tank and she will be your bitch. You will spend your paycheque on new fish and invertebrates that have unpronounceable names even before you get home from work. You will discover some new piece of equipment that you just have to have, and "poof" there goes another couple hundred bucks. Gang bangers like Ken at Sea U Marine will hit you up for some better light-bulbs or the latest live-food supplement.

Are you prepared to live this kind of life? Then make your choice carefully.

...welcome to the Dark Side!


----------



## Chromey (Sep 25, 2010)

IM starting a reef now, I have a 135 G tank...


Money Wise Im 5000$ deep, And i havent Put a drop of water in the 135 yet.


Ive had FW fish now i want to try something dif.


----------



## BettaBeats (Jan 14, 2010)

Im making my 15 gallon as simple as can be so I can focus my money onto my 10 nano in the works..

sheesh


----------



## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

Chromey said:


> IM starting a reef now, I have a 135 G tank...
> 
> Money Wise Im 5000$ deep, And i havent Put a drop of water in the 135 yet.
> 
> Ive had FW fish now i want to try something dif.


holy crap.... 5000$??

hmmm... I guess in comparison to freshwater, reef tanks need more equipment?


----------



## Dax (Sep 29, 2010)

I read for 1 year, slowly got equipment and then started 2 months ago. I just read what the people before me said and I believe they are all talking about a reef setup ... for a newbie, this is a difficult/time consuming/maintenance intensive way to start. You need to know a lot of things and then as your system develps you need to learm more about your specific case.

Depending on how you start it doesn't have to be expensive or time consuming. Like everyone said, decide where you want to end up and build up to it (i.e. buy the right equipment). You'll be surprised how quickly you'll want to do that, but if you start correctly you will decide how to get there, not your tank. Good news, if you only want fish, it is the easiest. If you want reef, go with FOWLR and slowly convert to reef. This will be more forgiving if you have problems and it will get you the experience you need. As far as price and time, I think the guys already covered that .... i.e. you decide.

That being said, my plan was as I said above but I ended up buying an existing setup with live rock, a fish, and a large anemone in it. My water quality isn't where it is supposed to be (still) and I've been here getting help on how to fix it. Stressful way to begin, but so far no casualties. I have no regrets, but if I was to do it again I'd have liked to get used to everything before addding something that requires a higher level of care.

If you are thinking about one, I guarantee you will love it once you begin. If at all, the PITA factor won't set in till a few years down the road. No one here is anywhere near the end of that road.


----------



## Dax (Sep 29, 2010)

solarz said:


> holy crap.... 5000$??
> 
> hmmm... I guess in comparison to freshwater, reef tanks need more equipment?


+1 (Holy crap)

That's the way to do it .... if you can.
Can't imagine the price tag once livestock starts to go in.


----------



## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

It really depends on what you're going for - I have both ends of the spectrum in my place - I have a 5g tank running on a heater, a single powerhead, and a 2-light flourescent fixture. It has 3 fish, a few corals and some inverts and has been running great since april. Total cost to set up? Probably under $100 because things were second hand. My 100g reef tank without a drop of water in it? Well the following story sounds familiar...



Chromey said:


> IM starting a reef now, I have a 135 G tank...
> Money Wise Im 5000$ deep, And i havent Put a drop of water in the 135 yet.


In terms of time committment? I do a water change on it once a month or so, and feed every 2 - 3 days. Not time consuming at all. My SPS dominated nano on the other hand, was a handful to take care of (probably 30 minutes a day and more if I was doing maintenance), but it was still well worth it


----------



## gucci17 (Oct 11, 2007)

solarz said:


> holy crap.... 5000$??
> 
> hmmm... I guess in comparison to freshwater, reef tanks need more equipment?


It's the cost of the equipment mainly but yes there is more required depending on what you are trying to achieve in SW.

It's a whole new level the way I see it now. Think about it, it's not hard to hit thousands when you are looking into larger tanks.

A good friend of mine has put in excess of $35,000 in his 300 gallon reef only to come home from a trip to a tank full of dead corals and fish. He's been slowly restocking and getting things under control for the last year now. Who knows how much more he has spent since then...


----------



## Big Ray (Dec 8, 2009)

this is why its so addictive though 

you can spend all your money and time on it if you wanted  haha


----------



## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

IMHO/E, it starts first with a vision...what size of a system and what do you want coral-wise and fishwise. Next would be your _realistic_ time to dedicate to the system, daily, every other day, weekly, bi-weekly and monthly. From there is planning the system and choosing equipment to tailor _your_ system.

Other important factors:
- structure: will the floor support the weight of the sytem
- noise: important for video/audiophiles if the system is in the same room
- electrical load: what other "things" are drawing power from that circuit.
- storage: yeah, there can be alot of "stuff" acquired . Also a bucket for ATO source water. 
- spatial arrangement: knowing what is around the system when you do your work and precautions. Ie, tarping the workspace, moving the Afgan rug, covering the suede couch/AV system, etc.

Doing this for a living and my clients generally just feed and algae scrub b/w servicing, all I can say is buy the better brands. Customer support and short downtime is crucial for the $$$ you are going to invest. Of course one can take "short cuts" but only do that with some experience under your belt. From reading forums and reading about ways to save some $$$ is completely doable, but when issues arise, it's going to cost you more in time, "buying twice" to replace "X" and hopefully not livestock.

I had a client with a 400gal reef and 500gal reef. He spent a fortune for what he got. Trying to work with what he had, nothing really worked out for what he envisioned. In the end, everything was replaced (except LR and substrate) and reconfigured with more equipment to achieve that vision. Had it been "done right" the first time, he would have saved some serious $$$.

Costwise, for example, a 65gal reef with everything less livestock and better branded products that I use should be in the range of $4500-$5500.

HTH/JM2C/E


----------



## Chromey (Sep 25, 2010)

wtac said:


> IMHO/E, it starts first with a vision...what size of a system and what do you want coral-wise and fishwise. Next would be your _realistic_ time to dedicate to the system, daily, every other day, weekly, bi-weekly and monthly. From there is planning the system and choosing equipment to tailor _your_ system.
> 
> Other important factors:
> - structure: will the floor support the weight of the sytem
> ...


Good to see im not out to lunch at 5000$ Not including 600 more today for plumbing.


----------



## gucci17 (Oct 11, 2007)

Chromey said:


> Good to see im not out to lunch at 5000$ Not including 600 more today for plumbing.


lol don't worry, you're not the only one!


----------



## Chromey (Sep 25, 2010)

Im gunna have ROck and Water LOL Good thing it takes awhile to cycle, This way i can get some money in the pocket...Just to drop on corals and fish But anyways.


----------



## wtac (Mar 17, 2006)

Chromey said:


> Good to see im not out to lunch at 5000$ Not including 600 more today for plumbing.


Using the "good stuff" doesn't come cheap but well worth the peace of mind .


----------



## Chromey (Sep 25, 2010)

Its all the advice from Damn reefers LOL... Ill be getting the tank wet this weekend.


----------



## gucci17 (Oct 11, 2007)

Chromey said:


> Its all the advice from Damn reefers LOL... Ill be getting the tank wet this weekend.


Keep up posted. Where's the build thread?


----------



## Chromey (Sep 25, 2010)

http://www.aquariumpros.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=41863

More Pics to come... I should be finished the plumbing tomorrow.


----------



## gucci17 (Oct 11, 2007)

Chromey said:


> http://www.aquariumpros.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=41863
> 
> More Pics to come... I should be finished the plumbing tomorrow.


Ah there we go...hiding all the way other they huh


----------



## Chromey (Sep 25, 2010)

updated pics.


----------



## Jmbret (Nov 6, 2010)

aaannnnd thread hijacked.


----------



## Chromey (Sep 25, 2010)

SOrry, Ill stop posting.


----------



## Kweli (Jun 2, 2010)

When i first started out I was spending about 10-40 minutes a day on things... Rearranging rocks, moving powerheads, fiddling with filters/sponges, etc...
Its all a game of manipulation until your happy with everything (which is hard to achieve)

Once everything is all setup it becomes a game of “whats that?”
- You will see something new and research if its good/bad.
I spent a lot of time reading the hitchhikers thread so I already knew most of the good vs. bad things. Most times it wont be there when you get back, so its good to do this research before

Now, after only 5 months I spend about 1 minute a day (cleaning glass with magnet) and about 10 minutes every 2 days (feeding)
Other then that I do water changes on the weekend that take up about 10-20 minutes time (do cleaning during this time too)

I did a lot of reading on nano-reef.com and reefcentral. I focused on the new tank threads AND on the tank disaster threads (crashes) to get an understand of the do’s and donts

As for costs, its more then freshwater: both the upkeep and livestock


----------



## phi delt reefer (Sep 8, 2010)

I have about $1750 invested in my 45 gallon. though its not done yet. I have name brand products but i bought a few used items (tek light, eheim return pump) and i shop across the border for i live in London ontario (45 minute drive) To buy everything here i would be 2500+ into it already. My tank is custom built as is my stand. materials for stand are already at the $400.00. I still have yet to buy livestock and plumbing (who knew pvc was so effin expensive!) I think in total i will have spent about $2500 once its up and running. I have been hunting for deals since August of this year so if you take it slow and keep your eyes open to deal on kijiji and forums you will save some loot. Don't rush it unless you have money to burn.


----------



## Kweli (Jun 2, 2010)

In regards to fish, and disease.... It can be very time consuming if you want to treat all fish for ICH before putting them in your tank. ICH can wipe your entire livestock so its a good idea.... BUT keeping a QT running is time consuming and requires almost daily water changes and measuring.

After 8 weeks of this you can end up getting ICH that hitchhiked on the shell of a 2 dollar snail. 

Fine balance


----------



## goffebeans (Jul 23, 2007)

Kweli said:


> In regards to fish, and disease.... It can be very time consuming if you want to treat all fish for ICH before putting them in your tank. ICH can wipe your entire livestock so its a good idea.... BUT keeping a QT running is time consuming and requires almost daily water changes and measuring.
> 
> After 8 weeks of this you can end up getting ICH that hitchhiked on the shell of a 2 dollar snail.
> 
> Fine balance


+1 Agreed.

So far I found quarantining to be the most time consuming and wonder if its worth it, considering cases like Kweli just mentioned and cases in which the fish themselves are sensitive to copper so you can't even treat them for ich.

In terms of $$. I consider my tank to be very straight forward and low tech.

This is a very quick rough estimate.

New - 110g Custom Tank - $600
DIY - Wood Stand - $400
New - Plumbing - $140
Used 30g Sump - $100
New - Tunze Silence Return pump $150
New - SWC Mini S Skimmer - $350
Used - 2x Ebo Jager Heaters - $60
New - Wood + 2 Floor Support Jacks - $150
New - Ultra multi switch Powerbar - $25
Used/New - Coralife UV sterlizer + powerhead- $150
Used/New - bucket + 4 bags of Carbisea Select Aragonite Sand - $80
Used - ~80 Lbs base/liverock - $120

Thats $2325.00 for the main tank

Quanrantine tanks 
New - 10 gallon - $20
New - 20 gallon + Lid - $50
New - Chemicals (Prazipro/Cupramine) + test kits ~ $50
Used - Spare pumps/filters/heaters = 0
Total $120

Others:
New - Salt - $90
New - Food - $50
Used - Refractometer - $30
Misc - $120 (never know where this stuff goes)
Total $290

Approx Grand Total $2735

Future Purchases:
Maxspect LED Lights + Mounts ~ $1000
ReefKeeperLight controller ~ $100
Hydor Evo 1400 Powerhead ~ $50
DIY Mesh tank cover ~ $50
Total $1200

That will bring me to about $3935

So after stocking I'd be pretty close to $4500

Gives you an idea of the price of piecing a fairly simple "custom" system together.

In this hobby for the most part things don't hold their value, so you can find great deals out there. Especially for larger systems.


----------



## Kweli (Jun 2, 2010)

Well, not to scare anyone, but my total costs are a lot less... although so are my gallons..

34G solana - 500 used (came with stand, tank, and 150w light)

With all other equipment I was under 1000 dollars...

Livestock is where the money starts to disappear.

Ive spent 30 dollars trying to find the right food to feed a 10 dollar fish


----------



## Chromey (Sep 25, 2010)

Im looking @ 200$+ alone for a CUC LOL

My cheapest fish i want is a perc Clown, And it goes up like crazy from their.

As for Corals all i can say is OMG I know im gunna drop another few K's their aswell.


----------



## carmenh (Dec 20, 2009)

A friend and I were just joking the other day about how when we first got into SW, we'd see a $50 coral and be like "OMG, it's soooo expensive, who would pay THAT?!". Now we buy it and feel like we got a deal


----------



## 50seven (Feb 14, 2010)

carmenh said:


> A friend and I were just joking the other day about how when we first got into SW, we'd see a $50 coral and be like "OMG, it's soooo expensive, who would pay THAT?!". Now we buy it and feel like we got a deal


+1

I was just in NAFB today and was just thinking the same thing, LOL


----------



## carmenh (Dec 20, 2009)

Oooooh, NAFB is a very, very dangerous place for me...I'm glad it's such a long drive...



50seven said:


> +1
> 
> I was just in NAFB today and was just thinking the same thing, LOL


----------

