# GTA tap water



## CrystalMethShrimp (Apr 27, 2010)

So I'm pretty sure every shrimp keeper here is quite knowledgeable of water parameters and conditioning before water changes. I hope everyone is also aware that most gta water treatment plants are now using chloramine, which is chlorine + ammonia. My concern however is not for our little shrimp buddies since we prime (then let sit over night) but rather our personal health. Inside everyone's gut is a flora of bacterial both beneficial and harmful. Those help break down food and toxins and release favorable chemicals as bi-products. Drinking water straight out of the tap kills the bacteria and harms the flora causing digestive problems and diarrhea. The same applies to antibiotics (anti life) Just something to watch out for especially if you live in the downtown core.


----------



## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

Not true.

How would chlorinated water even make it from your stomach into your large intestine, while retaining the same potency? Not possible, I'm afraid.


----------



## Darkside (Sep 14, 2009)

I'm also pretty sure that they only use the chloramine seasonally and they decrease the levels as the temperature cools. Darkblade is right, there is no way for these chemicals to maintain their potency far into the digestive system.


----------



## CrystalMethShrimp (Apr 27, 2010)

This article convinced me to stop drinking tap water. As for the chloramine, your right, it's mostly in warmer weather where bacterial has a chance to grow.

http://www.healingdaily.com/detoxification-diet/water-filtration-systems.htm


----------



## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

I managed to read half the page before I got bored of the amount of scientific misinformation that was on the site.

There are spelling mistakes, and false information (the webpage claims that houses older than 20 years or less than 5 years are at risk of lead leeching out from the pipes! When was this even written?) 

Don't believe everything you read.


----------



## KevD (Mar 2, 2008)

I assume you people have never heard of pro-biotics?


----------



## CrystalMethShrimp (Apr 27, 2010)

KevD said:


> I assume you people have never heard of pro-biotics?


I get it from my yogurt and kimchi. 

There are countless doctors and physicians that warn of the potential hazards of tap water, however if you trust your municipal water plant then by all means drink up.


----------



## KevD (Mar 2, 2008)

Pro-biotics seem to added to everything these days but it's hard to beat yogurt for strong, active bacterial cultures. Astro rules! 

I honestly don't remember the last time I drank tap water. I filter it through a RO unit but take the water before it hits the membrane.


----------



## PACMAN (Mar 4, 2010)

would it be cost effective to distill your own water via a kettle or something?


----------



## TBemba (Jan 11, 2010)

KevD said:


> Pro-biotics seem to added to everything these days but it's hard to beat yogurt for strong, active bacterial cultures. Astro rules!


Have you ever tried Danone Activia ? Oh my god it's expensive but the creamy texture and taste *drool* it must be the crack of yogurts


----------



## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

Pro-biotics! Another prickly subject for microbiologists.

How is it possible that the bacteria can survive the acidity of the stomach? Surely, they cannot be the same as (say) _H. pylori_...

In addition, if they can, how much would need to survive/how much yogurt would you need to eat to have an actual measurable effect on the gut flora?


----------



## CrystalMethShrimp (Apr 27, 2010)

Darkblade48 said:


> Pro-biotics! Another prickly subject for microbiologists.
> 
> How is it possible that the bacteria can survive the acidity of the stomach? Surely, they cannot be the same as (say) _H. pylori_...
> 
> In addition, if they can, how much would need to survive/how much yogurt would you need to eat to have an actual measurable effect on the gut flora?


In most cases only a tiny percentage of probiotics make it to the intestines. That is why with most supplements they come in capsules specifically designed to dissolved once they have cleared the stomach region. A good pro-bio has multiple strains of different bacterial just as each everyone's gut is different. Potency is also important. most yogurts boast about 6 billion where in fact anything above 40 billions starts to become effective. As for chlorine is also makes it's way into the intestine, especially if there is food.

Yeah, strangely a lot of Japanese people have helicobactor p.


----------



## CrystalMethShrimp (Apr 27, 2010)

PACMAN said:


> would it be cost effective to distill your own water via a kettle or something?


This takes too long and removes alot of minerals your body needs. 
The best way when we can get the $$ is a R/O unit. But prior to that I'll be buying R/O water from walmart at $4 per 20L.

Here is a video that will tell you everything you need to know about pro-biotics
http://probiotics.mercola.com/probiotics.html


----------



## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

CrystalMethShrimp said:


> most yogurts boast about 6 billion where in fact anything above 40 billions starts to become effective.


If yogurt has 6 * 10^9 CFU, and you need 40 * 10^9 CFU, then probiotic yogurts are useless.



CrystalMethShrimp said:


> As for chlorine is also makes it's way into the intestine, especially if there is food.


Proof? How would eating more food increase absorption of chlorine into the gut?



CrystalMethShrimp said:


> Yeah, strangely a lot of Japanese people have helicobactor p.


Paper/studies? If Japanese people had a higher percentage of _H. pylori_ infections, there should also be a disproportionate number of stomach cancer cases compared to other cancers.



CrystalMethShrimp said:


> This takes too long and removes alot of minerals your body needs.
> The best way when we can get the $$ is a R/O unit. But prior to that I'll be buying R/O water from walmart at $4 per 20L.


RO also removes minerals.



CrystalMethShrimp said:


> Here is a video that will tell you everything you need to know about pro-biotics


I don't really trust information from websites that try to sell products. Of course they will try to make (their) probiotic product sound the best.


----------



## KevD (Mar 2, 2008)

TBemba,

I consume Danone Activia and various Astro brand yogurts....usually around 300-400g a day plus a probiotic supplement (found in greens+). The Danone is awesome but Astro is still my fave brand. I've been eating it since the mid-70's, man 

As far as yogurt and probiotics being ineffective, I strongly disagree with that statement. Probiotics don't need to be added to yogurt since the process of making it produces active bacterial cultures that are easily digested and pass into the digestive tract. Some strains work the upper GI tract, some the lower.
A good doctor, either conventional or naturopathic, will usually recommend consuming yogurt and/or a probiotic supplement while taking antibiotics to help replace the gut flora that gets wiped out by them.

If you need proof, there is a ton of information to be found on the interweb and/or through conventional scientific documents. Google is your friend.....use it 

I'll put up a couple of links though.....

Canadian Research & Development Centre for Probiotics

The National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine


----------



## Darkside (Sep 14, 2009)

Darkblade48 said:


> I don't really trust information from websites that try to sell products. Of course they will try to make (their) probiotic product sound the best.


I agree. If its not peer reviewed if doesn't have much weight. Chlorine ions in the digestive tract really aren't that big of a deal... or do you people not put salt on your food. lol


----------



## CrystalMethShrimp (Apr 27, 2010)

There is a large number of people in Japan and Korea that now have stomach cancer due to H. pylori compared to most other westernized countries. Especially in S. Korea where a friend of mine taught English there and later became a paramedic. 

Commercial yogurts are useless in the potency and strains of bacteria it provides. The best bet is to have variety with natural yogurt, kim chi, and sour krout. 

I find it puzzling that ingesting chlorine has zero negative health affects. In any case I don't see any hard evidence on either side of the debate, but then again this was also the case with the tobacco industry 40 years ago.


----------



## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

CrystalMethShrimp said:


> There is a large number of people in Japan and Korea that now have stomach cancer due to H. pylori compared to most other westernized countries. Especially in S. Korea where a friend of mine taught English there and later became a paramedic.


It is interesting to note that most Asian countries (even Japan) are many years behind North America, in terms of medicine. Perhaps they do not have access to PPI drugs?

Then again, the treatment for HP infections are so tedious, it is no wonder there is low patient compliance.


----------



## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

Darkblade48 said:


> It is interesting to note that most Asian countries (even Japan) are many years behind North America, in terms of medicine.


Where do you get that?


----------



## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

solarz said:


> Where do you get that?


Mainly through living in Japan 

It was very difficult to find any OTC drugs that we take for granted here in North America without a prescription in Japan.


----------



## CrystalMethShrimp (Apr 27, 2010)

Darkblade48 said:


> Mainly through living in Japan
> 
> It was very difficult to find any OTC drugs that we take for granted here in North America without a prescription in Japan.


That's because their primary drug care system is based on eastern medicine. More on traditional herbal medicine and trail and error over the last 5000 years where as most western countries are mostly symptom focused.

Btw found this very interesting video on the alkaline water hype. The claim is that it boost energy and blood flow. As we all know pure H2O is 7ph but water's ph depends not in itself but rather the ions or contaminates in the water. Some of which are + charged and some -, so really it isn't the water but rather the contaminate inside the water which determines ph. The video claims that water ionizers using electrically charged plates separating these ions (which water clusters are attached to) and thus you can get acidic or alkaline water with the push of a button. The problem with that is trivalent and pentavalent arsenic will go into the alkaline stream. Arsenic causes cancer and birth defects. Can you confirm this Anthony?


----------



## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

CrystalMethShrimp said:


> Btw found this very interesting video on the alkaline water hype. The claim is that it boost energy and blood flow. As we all know pure H2O is 7ph but water's ph depends not in itself but rather the ions or contaminates in the water. Some of which are + charged and some -, so really it isn't the water but rather the contaminate inside the water which determines ph. The video claims that water ionizers using electrically charged plates separating these ions (which water clusters are attached to) and thus you can get acidic or alkaline water with the push of a button. The problem with that is trivalent and pentavalent arsenic will go into the alkaline stream. Arsenic causes cancer and birth defects. Can you confirm this Anthony?


Oh god. Not this again.

The video has such some of the facts straight, but so much more science wrong. It hurt my brain to try to understand where the man was even coming from. So on to dispel some myths first.

What exactly is "ionized water"? The term is meaningless to chemists. Electrolysis of water generates so-called "ionized water?" That is a new one for me. I don't understand how the laws of chemistry and physics can be broken by a machine that I can purchase and put into my own home.

Next, there is no such benefit of drinking "alkaline" water or "acidic" water. Any water that you drink will be buffered immediately by the blood anyway, so there is absolutely no health benefit from drinking "alkaline water". Unless, you are trying to get rid of acid reflux; then maybe drinking milk of magnesia will help. Long term health benefits, there are none.

Contaminates are not positively or negatively charged; the video must be referring to ionic species. But what about organic pollutants, etc? These do not have charge.

Moving along.

Arsenic can cause birth defects, no doubt about that. But then, firstly, how much arsenic is in tap water? You would be hard pressed to find any, I'm afraid.

However, if you are just asking if I were to electrolyze water, where arsenic cations would end up, it would be at the cathode (the negatively charged electrode). This "alkaline" and "acidic" stream is pseudo-science mumbo jumbo.

There is just too much scientific misinformation out there.

Here is a comic strip that illustrates this point.


----------



## CrystalMethShrimp (Apr 27, 2010)

Darkblade48 said:


> Oh god. Not this again.
> 
> The video has such some of the facts straight, but so much more science wrong. It hurt my brain to try to understand where the man was even coming from. So on to dispel some myths first.
> 
> ...


Haha great illustration. Thanks for clearing that up. There seems to be an epidemic of misinformation of commercial products on the internet. Will definitely keep an eye open.

I brought up this subject because I keep hearing about testing the body's ph which should fall between 6.4 to 7.2 by testing your urine in the morning. I think I've become the grandpa


----------



## Darkside (Sep 14, 2009)

That comic is PRO!


----------



## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

CrystalMethShrimp said:


> I brought up this subject because I keep hearing about testing the body's ph which should fall between 6.4 to 7.2 *by testing your urine in the morning*. I think I've become the grandpa


Why...would you even want to do this? 

This is also not a good way to test your body's pH; it can vary quite widely, and is not indicative of your body's pH at all.


----------



## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

Darkblade48 said:


> Why...would you even want to do this?
> 
> This is also not a good way to test your body's pH; it can vary quite widely, and is not indicative of your body's pH at all.


I agree with everything you said Darkblade, glad you gave your input to the matter as there seems to be alot of misinformation out there concerning this alkaline water.
But leave a bit of space on the last one though about human heath and stable ph. It can not be proven that there are beneficial effect but the same can also be said that not enough research has been done to prove the opposite as well.

*Never pay again for live sex! | Hot girls doing naughty stuff for free! | Chat for free!*


----------



## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

Darkblade48 said:


> Mainly through living in Japan
> 
> It was very difficult to find any OTC drugs that we take for granted here in North America without a prescription in Japan.


That doesn't mean their medicine is not as advanced, just that they have a stricter drug control policy.


----------



## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

solarz said:


> That doesn't mean their medicine is not as advanced, just that they have a stricter drug control policy.


Well, drug development may be advanced, but since they have a tight drug control policy, in essence, the drugs that are available to patients are ones that were approved in North America many years ago.

Thus, if you were to say get chemotherapy in Asia, it may not be as effective as chemotherapy in North America, as they would be using drugs from (maybe) 10 years ago.


----------

