# When the honeymoon phase is over! Reality sets in 😔



## 12273 (Nov 3, 2012)

Well, it's been since November 10th since I've embarked on this journey and my tank was filled with water. I can still remember the clean, clear water. Bright white sand and rock. Almost sterile if you will.

It's now been three months and I've encountered the norms. I've enjoyed watching it evolve to what it is today and now the honeymoon phase of a algae and pest free tank stage are over. My sand is greenish. Rock turning purple with coralline algae. Rocks covered in what appears to be a clover type coral in a brown colour .

Now, I'm noticing what appears to be hair algae! My google finger is getting itchy and ready to do some research. Do I dare venture into the world of crabs to control it? Or do I simply take a chance at it subsiding and letting run it's course? It's a gamble. It can either take over or stay controlled. What to do? Do I remove the rocks? It would be about three decent size rock and prob 20% of my live rock. Would it seriously impact my bioload filtration capability? And if I do take it out what's to say the spores haven't seeded on the other rocks.

Also, I'm noticing a few aipatasia anemone and also considering a shrimp to eat it. And if you look at the third picture you can see I have two white sponges. Good? Bad?

Decisions decisions. 

























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## 50seven (Feb 14, 2010)

Sorry to hear of your misfortune. I assure you, it can get better from here. 

Without knowing your levels, it sounds like your nitrates and phosphates are out of control.

Do you have a sump/refugium? How are they faring?

I would suggest a 4-day blackout to start things off. Blanket the entire tank with black plastic or cardboard. Don't let a speck of light in. Your fish will be fine.

When the blackout is finished, do a water change, sucking out as much of the dead algae as you can. I use a 1/4" plastic siphon with a toothbrush attached via rubber band. Works amazing. 

Repeat the blackout again the following week if needed.

Other things that may help:

-run some carbon in a reactor
-skim wetter/ get a better skimmer
-put more LR or a DSB in your refugium
-run phosban or similar in a reactor 
-remove aiptasia by removing the rock and burning them off with a plumber's torch
-peppermint shrimp usually go for them as well
-reduce your lighting period
-reduce your feeding 
-remove rocks with bad algae and rinse them in hydrogen peroxide

Try all these things. If you are still in the same place 2 months from now, there is still hope, but not recommended as a first solution as you may have missed something important that could be address by the above.

Good luck!

...and trust me, I know EXACTLY how you feel 

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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

don't worry - you are not first and not last. ( no sarcasm intended)
Wrong advices, wrong priorities, unnecessary testing/dosing, wrong usage of LED schedule bring expected result.

take rocks out if you can, clean it properly (do not boil in the kitchen ) and start over with advices from Kevin above.

My PM is also always available.

Good luck! and I am sure the next one will be beautiful and clear.

I personally would avoid covered tanks

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## 12273 (Nov 3, 2012)

Hey folks thanks! Great advice here. 

I have a Red Sea max 130 so I'm limited in Refugium and skimming My skimmer prob sucks as it doesn't collect much. Either my water is really clean or the skimmer is crap. 

My light is on from 2-11. Fades on at 2 to full at 3. Than down at 11. LED lights. 

I might just remove the rock and clean them. Apt anemone mostly on those rock anyways so... 

I could look into the skimmer upgrade by tunze and I could try to add some carbon in a sack and see what the yields. In gonna try to increase my water changes. Once a week but try and do maybe 20% as oppose to 15%. 

Keep it coming guys! Thanks again  


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## Thoreffex (Dec 31, 2013)

Out of curiosity whats your clean up crew consist of?


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## 50seven (Feb 14, 2010)

If your tank looks as it does and your skimmer is taking nothing out, odds are it is not working.

Be careful cleaning the rock as you don't want to leave it out of the tank for too long as you'll get die off and then could get a mini cycle. if you find that you are doing a lot of scrubbing but not much algae is coming off, try the blackout first. After a 3-4 day blackout, it will just fall off.

If you're taking it out to clean it, then do a bit of reading (Google is your friend) on hydrogen peroxide dips so you get a good dilution ratio.

And those sponges you mentioned earlier, I wouldn't worry about them.


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## 12273 (Nov 3, 2012)

Clean up crew consists of 4 nassarius. 8 busy trochus and a cleaner shrimp. 

Me cerith snails died and my big turban snail died. I saw my nassarius snail almost inside the snail so I'm not sure if they are attacking snail like a assassin snail or if they are eating the carcass. 

I was feeding my clowns with brine and mysis shrimp and some would obviously float around and feed the scavengers. Now I just pellets and nothing is left over so maybe the snails are starving ??? 

And if I do a blackout will it not hurt the coral? 


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## Thoreffex (Dec 31, 2013)

Just as a referance i have 15ish snails, 10ish nazarith snails, 15 hermits, 2 pepermmints, and a few oddball critters in a 50 gallon. Nassarius snails eat dead stuff. I do think blacking out the tank will be very stressfull for the corals.


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## 50seven (Feb 14, 2010)

Snails will eat detritus and all kinds of other crap. They don't actually need food. If they are drying, then there's probably something else amiss. 

Re: blackout: Coral will be fine. I've done it myself and know others who have as well.

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## 12273 (Nov 3, 2012)

I suppose checking some parameters would be in order. I'll test tomorrow and maybe it will shed some light on this. Maybe my tank is crashing . 


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## 12273 (Nov 3, 2012)

PH 7.7 
Nitrate 0.5 (pretty much clear) 
Calcium 425 
Mag 1215 
KH 8.3 



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## 50seven (Feb 14, 2010)

Remember that a rapidly growing culture of GHA will consume nitrates and phosphates. making a reading inaccurate. And you don't need a test kit to tell you that it is growing.

Do the blackout. You'll be glad you did. The algae will dies and fall right off the rock when you pull it out to scrub it. Trust me, I've been there!


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## 12273 (Nov 3, 2012)

I didn't test for Phos because my TDS still reads 000. I bought some really good filters and it's paying off. So I'm thinking my LED are to blame. 

So maybe the snails died of old age? Everything seems fairly happy. What about an emerald crab? And a couple pepper shrimps? 


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## Letigrama (Jul 6, 2008)

Well, the cleaning of the rock will kill everything and is only temporary. The Phosban reactor is a good solution but is too technical for me now. The excess light and phosphate is always to blame, overfeeding too. Why dont you go the natural way? see my advice below:

Well, it's been since November 10th since I've embarked on this journey and my tank was filled with water. I can still remember the clean, clear water. Bright white sand and rock. Almost sterile if you will.

though is nice, it means there is nothing living in it! 

It's now been three months and I've encountered the norms. I've enjoyed watching it evolve to what it is today and now the honeymoon phase of a algae and pest free tank stage are over. My sand is greenish. Rock turning purple with coralline algae. Rocks covered in what appears to be a clover type coral in a brown colour .

Sand greenish: instead cleaning it, get:

crew of hermit crabs
one sand sifter seastar
diamond goby.

This all keep your sandbed clean ( mostly the two last ones) dont get both of them... they really go through the sand

Now, I'm noticing what appears to be hair algae! My google finger is getting itchy and ready to do some research. Do I dare venture into the world of crabs to control it? Or do I simply take a chance at it subsiding and letting run it's course? It's a gamble. It can either take over or stay controlled. What to do? Do I remove the rocks? It would be about three decent size rock and prob 20% of my live rock. Would it seriously impact my bioload filtration capability? And if I do take it out what's to say the spores haven't seeded on the other rocks.

I have been battling hair algae forever. Is the phosphates. What would help:
lawnmower blenny
Sea Hare- sea hare is the best solution, they eat a lot and only hair algae
Sea urchin- when they go, they go. Mine leaves the LR white when he goes over it, cleans everything out!

Also, I'm noticing a few aipatasia anemone and also considering a shrimp to eat it. And if you look at the third picture you can see I have two white sponges. Good? Bad?

You need to address the aipstasia ASAP. Get 2 peppermint shrimp and they will always keep it clean of this pest. The shrimp also eat all foods, so they wont die when the apstasia is gone, i have 2 of them for 8 months now
White sponge is all good! it helps with filtration

I hope this helps. Snails are good but you will need a ton to keep the tank free of hair algae. My snails dont go on the live rock at all. The sea hare goes everywhere.


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## 50seven (Feb 14, 2010)

Not sure how you're cleaning your rock if you're killing everything on it too...

If you remove a rock, scrub it with a toothbrush in a pail of old WC saltwater, then dip it in hydrogen peroxide solution, the only thing that is going to die is the algae and any other plants. Most coral and all the bacteria will be fine and any remaining algae residue will turn white. 

Do it this way and you won't kill anything useful. 

Leti is right, you have to control your phosphate or the GHA will just come back. Killing and removing the GHA is only a step in the entire process. 

Be careful adding too many new critters. They may help to abate the problem, but at the same time, every time they poop, they also add phosphate and in turn feed the algae. 

Trust me, I've been there for nine months...


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

Letigrama said:


> I have been battling hair algae forever. Is the phosphates.
> What would help:
> lawnmower blenny
> Sea Hare- sea hare is the best solution, they eat a lot and only hair algae
> ...


 why in the world you give him advice how to "battle hair algae forever.", instead how do not have it in the first place.

he must clean it "mechanically" and should not care if he kills "good" bacteria.
these rocks also has a lot of "bad" bacteria inside.

in my uneducated opinion, but based on the experience all this "good bacteria" hysteria is overrated.

2 month ago I got very bad worms in my 25 tank despite dipping all corals and these are almost impossible to get rid of them in the tank.

I took out all 30lbs of LR and boiled them for 5 minutes. Put all of then back in the tank and since than everything is perfect. I did the same exercise, but just with ~ 80lbs from my old 120G 3 years ago (ti kill all aftahsia)

my first set up (29G biocube, which I bough complete with rock and fishes. I even could not see the rocks as result of the hair algae on them. I did not have experience and time, since fishes and corals were waiting.
Boiled the rocks, cleaned with metal brush, put few bags of the chemipure in the back compartment and every thing went perfect without hair algae returned

I do not have any scientific prove why and how, but I never ever had any hair algae in none of my tanks . I also never had cyano even in the new tanks.

what I am doing is very easy. From the first day as tank is ready to accept fishes and corals, I run carbon and GFO in 2 Little fishes phosban reactors.

GFO and Carbon do they job. I do understand that everybody had different financial abilities and I do not promote any products.

It is just for the owners of the tank to decide what they want:

"battle hair algae forever." or spend $ 5 more per month and have a beautiful tank

Here is the tank 2 months later after all rocks were boiled and I have huge bio load in this system with extensive feeding. all fishes and corals are in perfect shape

This tank does not have a skimmer, just phosban reactor with GFO and small bag of carbon which hangs behind overflow. I also did not bother with all this AC as refusioms with chaeto , since they do nothing due to their small volume

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## Letigrama (Jul 6, 2008)

sig said:


> why in the world you give him advice how to "battle hair algae forever.", instead how do not have it in the first place.
> 
> he must clean it "mechanically" and should not care if he kills "good" bacteria.
> these rocks also has a lot of "bad" bacteria inside.
> ...


Greg,

I dont like your tone of voice 

we all know you are very opiniated about your phosban reactor. Though I agree 100%, I am not ready for one yet. There is also other cons about phosban reactors, so lets not sell it like is a wonder.

You have to be respectful of other opinions because my tank is doing very well with all my other options.

Boiling rocks will mean killing all the good stuff that he's been cultivating all these months in the cycling. for me, is crazy talking. the toothbrush is a better idea, or a sea urchin, which cleans the rock back to white.

I prefer to have a healthy tank rather than a pristine tank and mess up the chemistry. I will do the reactor, but nothing is 100% the solution.

So then is his decision what he wants to do. I dont battle with hair algae anymore, as I have it under control, thanks to my, apparently, wrong decisions


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

Letigrama said:


> Greg,
> 
> I dont like your tone of voice
> 
> ...


Leti,

I did not mean to offend you and there is always a problem with my tone as the result of my English. I am not able to make polite BS (write a lot but say nothing ) and as result my speech become very dry and sound offensive.

I am opinionated about my phosban reactor as thousands of others who has tanks without algae.

I also respect other opinions and you can see above what I said:

_It is just for the owners of the tank to decide what they want:
"battle hair algae forever." or spend $ 5 more per month and have a beautiful tank _

Let's say it in this way - everybody who followed my "opinionated" advice has beautiful tanks and everybody who followed "biological" opinion, battles with the algae and few already lost the battle.

_you say" "So then is his decision what he wants to do. I dont battle with hair algae anymore, as I have it under control, thanks to my, apparently, wrong decisions "
_
why would you battle it in the first place, when you can avoid it

Please accept my apology (just in case) 

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## Norman (Feb 13, 2011)

Letigrama said:


> we all know you are very opiniated about your phosban reactor. Though I agree 100%, I am not ready for one yet. There is also other cons about phosban reactors, so lets not sell it like is a wonder.


What are the pros and cons of a phons ban reactor? I'm battling the beginnings of green hair algae at the moment, just spent my evening removing it with tweezers in a deep tank...


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## 12273 (Nov 3, 2012)

Norman said:


> What are the pros and cons of a phons ban reactor? I'm battling the beginnings of green hair algae at the moment, just spent my evening removing it with tweezers in a deep tank...


LOL. That's dedication! I just look at it and shake my head. Than walk away scratching my head trying to come up with how I'm gonna tackle it. Taking in all the pros and cons of how to deal with it and now going to come up with a game plan.

Tweezers! That will just spread it!! All the pieces you're missing and letting float around will release the spores and seed elsewhere later on. That's why I'm thinking of just tossing the pieces. They are covered in Clove polyps anyways.

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## Norman (Feb 13, 2011)

aquaman1 said:


> LOL. That's dedication! I just look at it and shake my head. Than walk away scratching my head trying to come up with how I'm gonna tackle it. Taking in all the pros and cons of how to deal with it and now going to come up with a game plan.
> 
> Tweezers! That will just spread it!! All the pieces you're missing and letting float around will release the spores and seed elsewhere later on. That's why I'm thinking of just tossing the pieces. They are covered in Clove polyps


LOL! Actually... I pulled as much of the algae out with a net and/or tweezers...pulled out the rocks that I could pull out and brushed the algae off with a toothbrush...and then I did a water change.

Oh and... I like my clove polyps. I'm just a newbie.


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## 50seven (Feb 14, 2010)

The reason why a phosban reactor normally works well to keep the tank nice is that it acts as a buffer of sorts. The LR and sand bed normally act as a sponge for the phosphates, drawing in as well as releasing substantial amounts of phosphate. When water concentrations drop, the phosphates will leach back into the water. If there is algae in the water, it will consume the phosphates, giving a misleadingly low reading when tested.

The phosban (or similar media) works to steady the microfluctuations and absorb any trace amounts that the LR leaches back before the algae can use it. If your LR is completely saturated, you may need to run it for a while before you see any visible results.

Remember, if there is no food, light, and nutrients, then the algae WILL die.


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## Letigrama (Jul 6, 2008)

sig said:


> Leti,
> 
> I did not mean to offend you and there is always a problem with my tone as the result of my English. I am not able to make polite BS (write a lot but say nothing ) and as result my speech become very dry and sound offensive.
> 
> ...


Greg, no offense taking whatsover. You are always there to help, I know. Is my own fault, because I am due for the reactor....I will be doing it this summer for sure....like you said, I offered the other option, that is all. I am sure, ill be delighted once I get my reactor going on!


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## Norman (Feb 13, 2011)

50seven said:


> The reason why a phosban reactor normally works well to keep the tank nice is that it acts as a buffer of sorts. The LR and sand bed normally act as a sponge for the phosphates, drawing in as well as releasing substantial amounts of phosphate. When water concentrations drop, the phosphates will leach back into the water. If there is algae in the water, it will consume the phosphates, giving a misleadingly low reading when tested.
> 
> The phosban (or similar media) works to steady the microfluctuations and absorb any trace amounts that the LR leaches back before the algae can use it. If your LR is completely saturated, you may need to run it for a while before you see any visible results.
> 
> Remember, if there is no food, light, and nutrients, then the algae WILL die.


Thank you for that explanation, I've never quite understood how it works. I think I better get one...


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

50seven said:


> The reason why a phosban reactor normally works well to keep the tank nice is that it acts as a buffer of sorts. The LR and sand bed normally act as a sponge for the phosphates, drawing in as well as releasing substantial amounts of phosphate. When water concentrations drop, the phosphates will leach back into the water. If there is algae in the water, it will consume the phosphates, giving a misleadingly low reading when tested.
> 
> The phosban (or similar media) works to steady the microfluctuations and absorb any trace amounts that the LR leaches back before the algae can use it. If your LR is completely saturated, you may need to run it for a while before you see any visible results.
> 
> Remember, if there is no food, light, and nutrients, then the algae WILL die.


Thanks Kevin for translating from Russian  Perfect explanation

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