# Apogonidae, Captive Bred or Wild?



## Guest (Jan 21, 2009)

UnderTheSea said:


> Most of the cardinals in the hobby now are captive bred.


Really? Who is selling them in Canada?

There are about 7 species of the 20 species that have been available to the hobby that have been bred in aquaria in quantities enough to be sold. Three species are being bred regularly but are rarely offered for sale in Canada. A couple of stores have imported the captive Banggai, captive Blue Streak and captive Pajamas but only very rarely. None of the wholesalers import them. Why would they when the stores don't buy them. Very unfortunately the vast majority of hobbyists wallets speak louder than their conscience. Wild Banggai's sell for as little as $10 wholesale, captives sell for $25+ wholesale. Why would stores sell Banggai's for $50+ when their competitor sells them for as little as $25. There are exceptions of course.

Point out these captive Cardinals


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

lol....that has to be the scariest thing I have read all day Cid.

I know Reef Aquatica frequently brings in captive bred specimens. And UTC, don't you bring in captive bred stocks too? Not sure of other retailers.


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## Guest (Jan 21, 2009)

I didn't say CB Banggai's aren't out there.... and Cid, I'm not trying to be obtuse or agumentative.

I was just trying to point out for clarity that most retailers do not make an effort to stock them. UTC and Reef Aquatica aren't really retail stores in a conventional sense. They are small businesses who operate out their homes and cater to local hobbyists trying to save a bit of money. Reef Aquatica does a great job at trying to educate people to the benefits of captive bred marine fish and purchases fish from ORA and others that are pioneers in the field. Unfortunately the big retailers in Southern Ontario continue to purchase wild Banggai's because there are still no restrictions on it. Knowing where PJ's Pickering gets their fish from I am certain they are not captive. Ask John at NAFB where his Banggai's come from and think of how many he sells.

I remember speaking to Martin Moe when he spoke at a MAST meeting during it's first year of existence and how frustrated he was at the lack of interest in captive bred marine fish due to the high costs of production at that time. He continued that if things didn't change (back in '86) soon the hobby would be it's own worst enemy

I've been keeping marine fish since the stone age (1976) and remember the joy of having a pair of flame cardinals spawn in my little 25 gallon aquarium set up in my parents greenhouse only to have the fry die due to a complete lack of knowledge on what was needed for them. Calls to all the stores in the city that had saltwater at that time yielded no help.

I've been in the fish hobby since 1971 and the business since 1986 please afford me just a little credit 

It disheartens me to think about the plight of the Banggai...

http://glassbox-design.com/2008/ban...dangered-status-yet-still-commonly-available/

..and to know that some of the most respected importers in the world like Quality Marine, Sea Dwelling Creatures and others continue to import them.

I think, Cid, this thread should be moved to marine discussion and titled "Apogonidae, Captive Bred or Wild?"


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## newbiefishfanatic (Dec 11, 2008)

it should have been in the marine section, my mistake. ill ask if ciddian can move it.


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## Guest (Jan 21, 2009)

newbiefishfanatic said:


> it should have been in the marine section, my mistake. ill ask if ciddian can move it.


no, you were in the right spot.

your post got high-jacked after the first response.... it is I who should have started a new thread in the marine section on the subject


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## Ciddian (Mar 15, 2006)

Here we go  Hope this thread split makes some sense lol. Debate away ^^


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## Guest (Jan 22, 2009)

Ciddian said:


> Here we go  Hope this thread split makes some sense lol. Debate away ^^


excellent job cid! 

now I'm all debated out   ... but I'm sure I could be started up again


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## Ciddian (Mar 15, 2006)

LOL I totally understand what you are saying thou seriously. I have also been guilty of doing the wtf why are they so much more thing.

However after being told why I didnt mind paying the difference, unfortunatly not everyone is like that i guess


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