# Lowering Nitrates - Help



## Groovychild (Jul 11, 2011)

Hi,

My Nitrate Levels are around 80 ppm and it just wont go lower. It's been like this for months now and I think it's slowly poisoning my fish. 

I've got a 55G heated, planted tank with pretty hardy fish, mostly assorted Rainbowfish, Hatchet Fish and Cory cats and they seem to be doing ok but I fear long term nitrate posioning. 

Looked up all there is to know online and I need your opionions on this. 

I do 30% weekly treated water changes (gravel and Mulm vac bi monthly), have many plants and clean the filter out every 2 weeks or less. 
The filter is an AC 110 with a Sponge, Floss, Active Carbon, Bio Max, Phosban and Water Softner. 

All the other levels (Ammonia, Nitrites, PH) are fine. Phosphate was a little high earlier but the Phosban seems to be helping. The tap water and conditioned water has no nitrates - 0 ppm. But my 2 established tanks have 80 PPM 

I'm thinking about adding Seachem Purigen to the filter media. It's supposed to be great for this problem. Have you had success with other products? Please let me know your thoughts on this product and on lowering nitrates. 

Thanks!


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## carmenh (Dec 20, 2009)

Have you tried a different test kit? Unless you're insanely over-stocked (you didn't say how many fish you had) or over-feeding, I don't even know how this could be possible with your good maintenance schedule...


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

What's your stocking level? Do you dose fertilizers?

Generally, the only way to lower nitrates is to do bigger water changes more often, and to clean out the filter media more often.


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## Will (Jul 24, 2008)

carmenh said:


> Have you tried a different test kit? Unless you're insanely over-stocked (you didn't say how many fish you had) or over-feeding, I don't even know how this could be possible with your good maintenance schedule...


Indeed, 80ppm is VERY high in a planted tank as plants uptake nitrates and phosphates- Both are essential in plant growth.

-Just how "planted" is you aquarium? Nitrates 10-20ppm, Phosphates 1.0-2.0 ppm are good levels for plants. Whats the phosphate measure at?

-Have you confirmed your measured levels with a second test kit?

-What is your process in "cleaning the filter"?

-You mentioned a second tank?


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## Groovychild (Jul 11, 2011)

Thanks for the quick responses folks.

I 1st tested it at BA's Scarborough and then twice on my API Freshwater Master Test Kit. Same results, 80 PPM.

Here's a stocklist of my tank :http://gtaaquaria.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29434&highlight=rainbow

The Algae has gone down with controlled lighting and Phosban but there's still a healthy bit of it still around.

A couple of the male Bosemani's died in spawning fights and there's more plants and no more Hornwort and Camboba. 30 fish in all, largest fish is 3''.

No ferts yet, thought I will be starting the dry ferts EI method and co2 DIY Yeast next week as the plants need it.

Filter and media are washed in the same tank water once a week and as per manufactures instructions.

The second tank is a breeding tank, right now waiting for my Cory's to spawn.

Any suggestions?


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## Will (Jul 24, 2008)

Hmmm, first thing I can think of to say is that when you start EI, don't dose Potassium Nitrate (KNO3) with your nitrates already being 60 ppm higher than is benificial to the plants. You might want to measure phosphates too, and see if you even need to dose that.

While Amazon swords are indeed nutrient hogs... they primarily feed from their roots. You could replace some fast growing stem plants to sponge up the waters nitrates. All Hygrophilia species, also Caboma and Ambrulia.


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

To be honest, that's not a lot of plants. Since you wash your filter media every week, I'm gonna have to say it's just a case of high bio load.

For one thing, your nitrates aren't necessarily 80ppm. The colors for 40ppm and 80ppm are near identical, so how would you know it's 80 and not 40?

Unless you add a lot of plant mass and upgrade your light + CO2 to allow for fast growth, the only other way to control nitrates is to do bigger water changes.


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## arc (Mar 11, 2010)

Can you take an updated picture of you tank? 

I get the feeling its the combination of high bioload and some of you plants slowing dying or not growing tank because of lack of light/co2/ferts.


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## Y2KGT (Jul 20, 2009)

Groovychild said:


> I do 30% weekly treated water changes (gravel and Mulm vac bi monthly)


I personally think you should gravel vac every week while doing your 30% water changes. Gravel vacuuming bi monthly will leave a lot of organic waste in your tank. And make sure you push the gravel tube all the way into the gravel.
--
Paul


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## Groovychild (Jul 11, 2011)

Thanks Will....will watch for that in the dosing and I'm gonna get more stem and bunch plants. They would be great for my spawning rainbowfish too. 

Will try more thorough vacs weekly and I'm gonna try Purigen instead of the activated carbon. 

I've attached some pics of the tank as of tonight. Lighting is a T5 HO 54W with one 10000K and one 6700K kept on for 7-8hrs a day. 

Will post next weeks results, fingers crossed!

Thanks everyone...any further suggestions would be much appreciated. 

Cheers!


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## BillD (Jun 5, 2006)

looking at that tank, which is lightly planted, but also with a low fish load, it is hard to imagine 80ppm of nitrates. What happens if you do a 50% water change? Does it go to 40ppm? First thing I would do is remove all the extraneous junk you have in the filter and run only a sponge and bio media. I would then do a 50% or larger water change , and another the next day and see what the tests say.


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## df001 (Nov 13, 2007)

the purigen is a short-term solution. You need to address the issue that is throwing the nitrates out of whack.

I agree with the others - high bioload/insufficient waterchanges

You have fairly high light on that tank, I'd have to pop over to another forum to find the chart indicating what PAR level etc. but suffice to say from the information you've provided co2 is the limiting factor for-sure!

Without the co2, the plants just dont need them. at 55g, you're borderline for DIY yeast co2 being effective unless you have a LOT of bottles running.

I would do an immediate 50% wc with thorough cleaning of the tank. remove all dead/dying plant material, manually remove as much algae as possible. also cut back on feeding your fish (you didnt mention your feeding schedule).

then monitor your levels, if the levels are still pretty high the next day - I'd do another 50% wc, till you're down into a reasonable range - ie 20ppm

Then monitor the levels - to get an idea of how quickly they are increasing, once you know that, that will dictate how often and how much of a water change you'll need to keep the 'trate level low.

if you want some star-grass you're welcome to swing by and take it.


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## fyns (Dec 22, 2011)

take out the carbon filter. it removes trace elements plants need to grow. (minerals) which will slow down their growth (more nitrate Because there aren't enough minerals be use of the charcoal filter) no planted tank should have a carbon filter. larger water changes aswell ...


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## coldmantis (Apr 5, 2010)

is your fish dying? because I have 44 large cardinal tetras, 4 sae and 4 otos and my nitrates is always around the 100-160ppm lol, plants grow crazy, red plants grow green(damn nitrate)  water change maybe once a month, clean the filter once every 4-6 months never any fish death all in a 40 gallon breeder, I was thinking I might add another eheim 2217 to deal with the bioload.


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## BillD (Jun 5, 2006)

coldmantis said:


> is your fish dying? because I have 44 large cardinal tetras, 4 sae and 4 otos and my nitrates is always around the 100-160ppm lol, plants grow crazy, red plants grow green(damn nitrate)  water change maybe once a month, clean the filter once every 4-6 months never any fish death all in a 40 gallon breeder, I was thinking I might add another eheim 2217 to deal with the bioload.


Your nitrates are high because you aren't maintaining the filter. A heavily planted tank will normally have relatively low nitrate numbers even with minimal water changes. You are maintaining a cesspool. Adding another filter will do nothing to change your situation, especially if you don't maintain it.


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## coldmantis (Apr 5, 2010)

I completely cleaned out the filter yesturday, tubes and all. hopefully the nitrate will go down if it doesn't then it's mostly like cause from overstocking + kno3 dosing.


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## Will (Jul 24, 2008)

Frequent KNO3 dosing will compound the amounts you put into the tank... without the weekly waterchanges to "reset" the levels, of course you are going to raise your Nitrates to ridiculous levels.


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## coldmantis (Apr 5, 2010)

i would agree if I'm dosing ei kn03 with no frequent water changes the nitrate will skyrocket, but I'm dosing per pps pro, I have 5 other tanks which I dose the same recommended amounts every day. those tanks of course are not overstocked but they are heavily planted just like this 40 gallon breeder and their nitrate levels are much more acceptable around the 20-40ppm mark. I think I will try to do more water changes, this pass (dec-jan) I have been doing a water change every week, I really want my red plants to turn red. it was the whole point of rescaping this tank all red plants 5-6 species in the background and 8 different species of carpeting plants from the mid to the foreground.


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## Will (Jul 24, 2008)

I'm also having some troubles getting from orange and gold to full RED on most of my plants.


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## fyns (Dec 22, 2011)

doesn't a higher iron turn plants red?


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## Will (Jul 24, 2008)

fyns said:


> doesn't a higher iron turn plants red?


only assuming the iron levels in the tank are insufficient and all others are.

Iron is in my trace nutrients, but I dont have a iron test kit to tell how much is in the tank before and after dosing iron everyday.


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## fyns (Dec 22, 2011)

well it would stand to reason that dosing a little more iron would help with the coloration. tested levels or not...


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## Will (Jul 24, 2008)

fyns said:


> well it would stand to reason that dosing a little more iron would help with the coloration. tested levels or not...


Actually I already doubled my dose weeks ago. That also means I'm dosing more zinc, molybdenum, copper, manganese, and boron. The implications of dosing more are larger when iron isnt an independant variable.

I'm preparing for a very large trimming, hopefully resetting the plant, with new growth, which will hopefully keep the red colour long term, not just turn to gold/green as the red new growth grows up and away.


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## fyns (Dec 22, 2011)

i agree. overdosing many for one wouldn't be a good idea. out of curiosity, as i would like to get some color in my upcoming project, is there an iron only additive? i will be adding some red clay to the soil ( not much ) and also a sand/clay mix cap over that, capped with eco complete. the red clay will help alot with the iron aspect. it also helps to hold in other nutrients released from the soil, and from waste.


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## Will (Jul 24, 2008)

Seachem Fluorish has a chellated iron supplement.

I am cautious as the last time I accidently overdosed Seachem Iron I was faced with a virulent case of thread algae.


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## fyns (Dec 22, 2011)

is that a multi source fert ? that would explain the algae, too many ferts not enough growth. but i digress, lol. hi jacked this thread.


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## Will (Jul 24, 2008)

No, I beleive Seachem iron is only iron and nothing more.


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## Groovychild (Jul 11, 2011)

Thanks for all your advice guys! Really Appreciate all the wisdom flowing here. 

I did a 50% water change including a through gravel and mulm vac, sucked a whole lota gunk and cleaned out the filter real good and cut the lights for a couple of days.

Tested today and Wallah - Nitrates are down to 20ppm.   WoooHoo!!

Thanks all...you guys rock!


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

Groovychild said:


> Thanks for all your advice guys! Really Appreciate all the wisdom flowing here.
> 
> I did a 50% water change including a through gravel and mulm vac, sucked a whole lota gunk and cleaned out the filter real good and cut the lights for a couple of days.
> 
> ...


Hey, if your nitrates went down to 20ppm after only one 50% water change, that means your nitrates were never at 80ppm to begin with.


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## BillD (Jun 5, 2006)

Will said:


> I'm also having some troubles getting from orange and gold to full RED on most of my plants.


I believe you will find this to be an issue of not enough light. The red of the plants is akin to the way humans tan. The red coloration is like a sun filter, and needs high light levels to maintain.


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## Will (Jul 24, 2008)

BillD said:


> I believe you will find this to be an issue of not enough light. The red of the plants is akin to the way humans tan. The red coloration is like a sun filter, and needs high light levels to maintain.


Over my 20G longs, I have 72W. Thats 3.6 WPG of T5HO lighting (1/3 is 5000K colourmax, 2/3 is 6500K). There is no glass lid or splash guards, but they are raised about 7" off the water - gives great light spread. Light is on for approximately 12 hours a day.

I mean theres some red... but not like it it could/should be.


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## coldmantis (Apr 5, 2010)

mines are 156w T5HO with splash guard and glass lid, raised about 2-3" off water all 67k I think for around 8-9hours a day over a 40g breeder.


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