# Viewpoint - Hobby vs Aquatic Husbandry



## KnaveTO (May 13, 2007)

So... the question here is how you view the keeping of aquariums and their aquatic residents. Just for clarification I have added the Wikipedia definitions of both

Animal husbandry, also called animal science, stockbreeding or simple husbandry, is the agricultural practice of breeding and raising livestock. It has been practiced for thousands of years, since the first domestication of animals.

A hobby is a spare-time recreational pursuit. Hobbies are practiced for interest and enjoyment, rather than financial reward. Examples include collecting, creative and artistic pursuits, making, tinkering, sports and adult education. Engaging in a hobby can lead to acquiring substantial skill, knowledge and experience. However, personal fulfillment is the aim.

I ask because I see so many of us refer to this as a hobby. But is it truely? Fish are pets just as much as the mammels, amphibians, avian, and repiles we keep as pets. I don't know about you, but I don't think of my dog as a hobby.

So I ask you... why do we think of this as a hobby?

As a side note I have added this post on Aquarium fans as well.


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## ksimdjembe (Nov 11, 2006)

terms are a always a bit vague.
for instance, is gardening a hobby? passtime?
...vice?


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## JamesG (Feb 27, 2007)

I think if you keep fish with the intention of selling offspring you are engaged in animal husbandry. This is blurred with the hobby function when you keep live plants etc, which you aren't selling. Basically husbandry is a revenue generating (at least attempted) activity whereas a hobby is not.


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## KnaveTO (May 13, 2007)

JamesG said:


> I think if you keep fish with the intention of selling offspring you are engaged in animal husbandry. This is blurred with the hobby function when you keep live plants etc, which you aren't selling. Basically husbandry is a revenue generating (at least attempted) activity whereas a hobby is not.


By that argument my keeping my dog Jaz is a hobby... I would disagree

Like I said ... posted this just as a debate


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## Sunstar (Jul 29, 2008)

I disagree, JamesG.

There is no way in the world am I gathing enough money from any selling I do that covers my hobby in any form or way. I consider my fish my pets and my hobby.

My mother has a hobby, she creates staind glass mosaics, she sells quite a few, generates usually enough to cover cost of materials plus a bit to get new-better materials. Does she make money? Not really. What she sells an item for does not reflect the time or effort put into it. Same can be for hobby fish breeding.

I do it for fun and hobbies are fun.


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## Nick T. (Nov 7, 2008)

In my opinion it comes down to what the person him/herself classify themselves as. I myself enjoy just having one 20G tank with a few neons floating around for my enjoyment. I do like to tinker with the plants and design the landscape of the aquarium but that's as far as I will go in spending my time on this hobby. Others,can breed fish or grow plants and selling them for two reasons. One being a straight forward money generating enterprise with little hobby/attachment towards the fish. Where as someone else likes the process itself, perhaps his/her hobby evolved from carrying for a 20G into a whole room full of aquariums stocked with breeders and fry. It just happens that his hobby does generate some income, but THAT is NOT the reason he is breeding them.

All in all some people take their hobbies seriously some do it for the fun of it to escape the realities of the world. Some are fortunate enough to live out their hobbies, enjoy every minute of it and make a living out of it. I'm sure everyone would LOVE to have a hobby/job instead a 9-5 day to day.

just my $0.02.


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## bigfishy (Jun 19, 2009)

All of us are 100% hobbist into fish keeping (except charles, thats a vendor with a stocklist of fish)

We are here to show off our wonderful fishes, plants and tanks to people... We offer deals, ideas and hints to help out beginners or helping others to improve their quality of fish keeping... We also sell off our materials to make extra cash or just to help out others, so that they can enjoy the hobby too...

BUT

we are not making any money out of it... we are not professional, we have other jobs in real life, we are not spending full time into fish breeding, we are not making fish tanks to sell, we are not selling fish as a fix income source, we don't have any marketing strategy, we are not making a profit, we don't own any fish store and farm

We are still learning, and spending our leisure time to enjoy every bit of our afford into fish keeping AND not scratching our head for ideas to sell the items to make a living

AND

that's defined as why are we called fish keeping as a hobby instead of aquatic husbandry


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

I think on the distinction of hobby and husbandry, there really is none. As hobbyists, we strive to maintain optimal conditions and health of our plants/fish/inverts. And in when one flourishes, things grow and spawn and propagate.

Now myself, I make a bit selling coral fragments and plants, but I would hardly consider it business or profit driven - everything I make is reinvested in my set ups or goes towards the costs of maintaining everything. I do it for the satisfaction and also challenge of knowing that I am providing the best possible environment for living things in my tank, and the satisfaction of being able to make them grow and flourish.


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## Riceburner (Mar 14, 2008)

I think of it as husbandry is a major source of income and/or use of time and hobby as minor income(time might be a different story).


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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

I see husbandry as a proffesion where as a hobby is of interest. Both can easily over lap and even to the point of the same activity. But hunsbandry being of a proffesion means that it's your source of income and sustenance and a hobby is where it's not the main source of your income.

We can go around in this in loops. For example, A king and his stableman. The king would be the hobbiest and the stableman would be the husbandry. The stableman would care for the hourse and even breed them, but the king just use the horse and enjoy the ride.

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## Mr Fishies (Sep 21, 2007)

I don't see keeping a dog/cat or even some fish as a hobby, feeding, cleaning, walking (not the fish), water changes etc are just taking care of pet(s). Having multiple tanks does not necessarily mean it's a hobby either...any more than 2 dogs is a hobby...it's just more work.

I personally think the hobby has a lot to do with the "peripheral activities" to keeping fish - researching equipment or plants, aquascaping, scoping other people's set-up...surfing forums etc. That's the hobby part of it - we do that for the fun of it, not necessarily because we have to do it in order to keep healthy fish.

@Nick T: That's a slippery slope...translating a hobby into a job, especially if it's your main source of income. If I don't feed my fish today, or skip a water change, no big deal. When it's a customer's tank or fish...taking a day off is not as easy...when you _*have *_to do something, even something you enjoy, it eventually becomes work.

Similarly, @ksimdjembe, it think gardening is a hobby...but when you need the food or plants are grown for income...that's farming...that's work! 

@Knave...since we're asking questions with no answers... If a fish splashes in the fishroom and nobody's there to hear it does it make a sound?


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## Cory (May 2, 2008)

I think that aquarium keeping is engaging in the hobby of fish husbandry. I guess my view is more like ameek's in that respect. I think fish husbandry is an activity that can be considered a hobby if you do it for personal enjoyment. 

I keep 25+ tanks and breed lots of fish but it's still a hobby for me. When I go out and take care of other folks' tanks it's a job. I don't think most folks on the forum are doing this for any other reason than for fun and entertainment so I think hobby is the best word for it.


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## KnaveTO (May 13, 2007)

Ah yes questions without answers, got to love them. Like I said in my OP, this was just to get the juices flowing and the grey matter working. I have to agree here to the feeling that this is a bit of both. Inotherwords like a few of you inferred and Mr Fishies said this is the hobby of aquatic husbandry. No way or need to split it further. Besides I think that hair is definately getting split down to the micro meter size... :lol:


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## Jackson (Jan 30, 2009)

KnaveTO said:


> So... the question here is how you view the keeping of aquariums and their aquatic residents. Just for clarification I have added the Wikipedia definitions of both
> 
> Animal husbandry, also called animal science, stockbreeding or simple husbandry, is the agricultural practice of breeding and raising livestock. It has been practiced for thousands of years, since the first domestication of animals.
> 
> ...


The reason it is a hobby is because the whole thing is business oriented. It is the business of selling fish to keep as a hobby. These fish are not ment to be food. Fish were only known as food until people started keeping them in ponds and then in tanks. 
Dogs and cats are domesticated animals and over the past who knows how many years have become more of a family member than a worker. Not too many people out there are breeding dogs and cats as food for human consumption. Fish on the other hand are still used as food and even the ones we pay $100's even $1000's for are eaten on an every day basis where they are from.Plus I dont care how many tanks you keep 1 or 100's you are not breeding the fish you keep as food for human consumption. So I would say non of the people on these forums or fish clubs are fish farmers. You are just hobbyist who are breeding fish to sell to other hobbyist or hoard. Unless you own a trout farm or some other type of fish farm and they are sold as food for human consumption.
We are talking about 2 different businesses here. The business of keepin a hobby alive and the business of growing or producing foods for people to survive. I know for a fact 99.9% of us on these forums are not part of the agricultural scene


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Jackson, I think there is a distinction for farming and cultivating for food and for the ornamental trade, but both of them are definitely a business. Look at famous fish farms or aquaculturing facilities. They are mass producing fish/plants/inverts, not for eating, but still purely as a commodity.

And the fish as a food? Some people have been know to eat their fish - I've heard stories of crazy people in Japan eating their prize $10000+ Koi. 

As I said before husbandry is the optimal care of our charges. The hobby is in keeping them.


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## Jackson (Jan 30, 2009)

ameekplec. said:


> Jackson, I think there is a distinction for farming and cultivating for food and for the ornamental trade, but both of them are definitely a business. Look at famous fish farms or aquaculturing facilities. They are mass producing fish/plants/inverts, not for eating, but still purely as a commodity.
> 
> And the fish as a food? Some people have been know to eat their fish - I've heard stories of crazy people in Japan eating their prize $10000+ Koi.
> 
> As I said before husbandry is the optimal care of our charges. The hobby is in keeping them.


Fish that have been kept in the hobby carry carcinogens. From the day that prized koi came to life it has been exposed to chems that are carcinogenic. Those stories are just that a storry.
I dont eat fish because they are absolutely disgusting animals IMO. They look good in a glass box but not on my plate. I dont eat any animal from the water they make me sick.

Ok I will agree they are "farming" those animals and plants and so on but they are not part of the agricultural scene. No way no how. They are part of the hobby in every way.
When you say aquaculturing facilities you mean the ones who try to boost the population of those who are in danger in the wild? Those are special cases and are part of the agricultrural scene. They help keep the wild supply going. Plus they do not sell the animals, plants and so on they raise.

The real definiton of husbandry has nothing to do with more than the care of animals who are ment as food. Hobbyist have twisted the defintion of this word in many way's.

LOL wikipedia~ the worst source for info in the whole world. Nothing more than the opinions of others.

Now that is what I call a true defintion


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Jackson said:


> Fish that have been kept in the hobby carry carcinogens. From the day that prized koi came to life it has been exposed to chems that are carcinogenic. Those stories are just that a storry.
> I dont eat fish because they are absolutely disgusting animals IMO. They look good in a glass box but not on my plate. I dont eat any animal from the water they make me sick.
> 
> Ok I will agree they are "farming" those animals and plants and so on but they are not part of the agricultural scene. No way no how. They are part of the hobby in every way.
> ...


People do eat their koi as well as other pets. In many parts of the world, once the family pet gets to a certain size (be it fish, pig, dog, whatever), it joins the family for dinner as dinner. Not everything fantastic is a made up story 

Many fish are raised without the use of chemicals - not everything in our world is juiced and enhanced with drugs and all the latest pharmaceuticals. Lots of fish never see a single chemical - I would feel safe eating something out of my reef tank or my shrimp tanks - I'm 100% sure that there is not a drop of chemical in there that I don't know about or wouldn't otherwise get from my normal everyday diet.

You don't eat fish? Farmed fish is healthier than beef, pork, chicken or most any other farmed meat. If fish are bad, then what about animals on feedlots and what they are fed (both feed and chemicals like hormones and antibiotics/antithelmintics), so you wouldn't eat them either. And vegetables? They're not that much cleaner - they're often fed what was fed to the animals 

Aquaculturing facilities are anything that cultivate aquatic species - we aquaculture many many species of ornamentals - there is a mutlimillion dollar industry in the united states alone devoted to the captive culturing of coral. In the south pacific and pacific rim nations there are entire farms dedicated to producing heads of captive raised corals and giant clams. They're definitely farms in every sense of the word. 
You seem to believe that Aquatic ornamentals aren't farmed - they are. Ever seen fish farms in Asia? There's no way they aren't seen as farms.
True, they may not be farmed for consumption AND ornamentals (but I'm sure that there are several species out of Africa and SE asia that are), but the fact remains all the same that they are farmed.

And your argument that husbandry is for animals of consumption?
Well, in stockherds (herds of animals meant for consumption), people herd all the animals together to raise them quickly by offering them ample food such that they will grow quickly, regardless of other conditions (sounds like a cramped breeder pond or tank to me).
To breed quality stock so that their herds remain strong, they choose different animals to stud to create a strong broodstock or maintain a certain line. They often bring in stud animals from other herds to bring in genetic diversity to maintain a herd that is free from genetic weakness and predisposition to a particular disease or mutation (sounds like selecting breeders and show specimens to me).
Furthermore, they maintain their herds by culling weak and deformed stock (sounds familiar too), making sure non-brood stock quality animals don't breed to maintain their progressive growth and saleability/slaughter weights.

All in all, Farm animal husbandry is the same thing as hobby animal husbandry. You maintain animal health by maintaining certain conditions both external and internal to the animals.


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## Jackson (Jan 30, 2009)

ameekplec. said:


> People do eat their koi as well as other pets. In many parts of the world, once the family pet gets to a certain size (be it fish, pig, dog, whatever), it joins the family for dinner as dinner. Not everything fantastic is a made up story
> 
> Many fish are raised without the use of chemicals - not everything in our world is juiced and enhanced with drugs and all the latest pharmaceuticals. Lots of fish never see a single chemical - I would feel safe eating something out of my reef tank or my shrimp tanks - I'm 100% sure that there is not a drop of chemical in there that I don't know about or wouldn't otherwise get from my normal everyday diet.
> 
> ...


No I agree that they are farming those animals. I just dont think they are part of the agricultural scene thats all.


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Jackson said:


> No I agree that they are farming those animals. I just dont think they are part of the agricultural scene thats all.


Well, yeah I can agree with you on that - 99.999% of the time they're raised for looking at, not eating.

Although sometimes those red shrimp do look mighty tasty looking. . .


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## Jackson (Jan 30, 2009)

ameekplec. said:


> Well, yeah I can agree with you on that - 99.999% of the time they're raised for looking at, not eating.
> 
> Although sometimes those red shrimp do look mighty tasty looking. . .


LMAO  you kill me man I just hope you never eat any of the little dudes out of your tanks.

I was so tired last night that was all I was able to write LOL

I used to work and live on a beef/chicken farm for 5 years up in Magnetawan. Population 600 LOL Most of the time if animals need to be culled on farms it is mostly fowl. I am not saying cows,pigs, and others are not culled it is just not needed to be done as often. I had to dispose of 1000 chickens once because they developed some type of growth on their beaks. The Vet deemed them unsafe for consumption so it was killing time  It was the worst thing ever.
I did not eat beef or chicken for years after I left there. I mostly eat lamb now LOL

I know for a fact that 99% of fish that hit the trade are exposed to chems that are carsinogenic. Even WC's are exposed to them. Once they are shipped or held in holding tanks those chems are dropped in. Most fish farms need to use them to prevent and control disease. plus 99% of the meds we can buy for them all have warnings that say ment for ornamental fish only do not use on fish or livestock ment for human consumption. I know from bringing in fish my self that those bags are rammed full of chems. The fish absorb them and the stay in their organs and flesh for many years or even life.

I do not think the stories about these people who eat their dead fish are not true. I just think those peole are cracked out and need help.

Aro farms will raise fish ment for the trade and fish ment to be used as food. Both projects are kept seperate. They dont waist the time and money breeding high priced fish only to be eaten.

I am not saying all fish farms use chems but once those fish are shipped the chems are there.


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## juanitow (Jun 21, 2008)

Jackson said:


> I know for a fact that 99% of fish that hit the trade are exposed to chems that are carsinogenic. Even WC's are exposed to them. Once they are shipped or held in holding tanks those chems are dropped in. Most fish farms need to use them to prevent and control disease. plus 99% of the meds we can buy for them all have warnings that say ment for ornamental fish only do not use on fish or livestock ment for human consumption.


Because I studied toxicology in undergrad and worked in a tox lab for 3 years, I'm going to have to call you out on this one  Depending on how you define everything, what you said may be true, but if it is, it is irrelevant to your health. I can tell you with 100% certainty that everything that you eat is exposed to carcinogens. Likewise, you likely produce and eat carcinogen every day, unless you eat only organic, raw fruits and veggies. For instance, when I cook, I like to cook certain foods like meat, onions etc until they start to brown from caramelization. These are products of the malliard reaction and cause cancer. They just also happen to be delicious. When you expose organics to open flames, yup! polyaromatic hydrocarbons (also delicious!). So you can't escape carcinogens.

Words like carcinogen, toxins, synthetic are tossed around so often that they have very little meaning anymore.

As for "for animal consumption" labels, they're often safe for human use, but legislation classifies them as requiring separate quality control standards. For the most part I wouldn't worry about eating anything my fish eats (hmmm feather meal! )


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## KhuliLoachFan (Mar 8, 2008)

*Since I spend time tending my aquariums, and the fish...*

... the fish are something more than a decoration and something less than a truly "wet pet". I care for them humanely as I would for any living thing but I don't grieve each fishy loss as much as I would grieve the loss of my one and only "pet", my cat.

I am quite attached to my clown loaches. When they do their loachy dances for me, I am every bit as happy about that as I am when my cat does something silly. But I don't cuddle my fish. You know? My cat is furry and purry, and I spend time close to him, touching him, so he's a pet.

The fish are a hobby. 

I love the species. I don't name the individuals. My other most beloved fish, if I might bend the term a little, is my puffer. He doesn't have a name. Mr. Ceylon Puffer, I guess. And I would be very sad if I lost my black lace Angel. You know, it's just its own thing. It is what it is.

So, maybe I can say "wet pet" is just a different thing from "dry pet", or maybe I can say, cats are just on their own level. But I do think of aquariums as a hobby. An interest. A diversion. A way to spend time and money, and lower stress levels, while appreciating the natural beauty of not only the livestock (fish and other critters) but also of the aquatic plants.
It's like gardening, and it's also different. You know?

W


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