# eheim 2217



## kweenshaker (Mar 11, 2006)

Hola...
I just set up my new tank and hooked up the eheim 2217 I bought last week. After being covered with water (when the filter kicked in, the spraybar came off the glass and the water shot across the room LOL) I thought I had it ok (although the spray bar is currently vertical (it won't stay horizontal) and the flow is aiming towards the side pane. -->is this ok?) Anyway, every 30 seconds or so there seems to be a little gust of flow and noise (horrible explanation)..is this normal? Is it air bubbles? It's been running about half an hour now. Is it related to how I have the spray bar? I tried and tried, but the pressure of the flow keeps ripping off the suction cups when I have it horizontal at the top of the aquarium.



ps - along with the eheim, I'm running the sponge filter (hydro IV) that was in my other tank and tomorrow I'm going to add the substrate that is in the other tank (or at least some of it)...when can I add fish? Is the cycled sponge filter enough to keep the water stable? Also, when should I take out the sponge filter (the ultimate goal is to have the eheim as the only source of filtration)

pps - I've once again learned that I'm horrible at aquascaping.


----------



## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

You can aim the spray bar wherever you like, it does not matter. However, I am unsure what you mean by the spray bar being vertical....do you mean that from the filter output, the spray bar is actually perpendicular with the ground? It's a bit unusual, but I suppose it could work.

The sound that you have described sounds like there is some air remaining in the filter. With time, this air will work its way out of the canister, and you will no longer hear that sound.

Depending on your tank goals, you can do several things: cycle as usual (the process will be sped up with the addition of your established sponge filter and seeded substrate). You can do a fishless cycle with ammonia or fish food, etc.

Alternatively, if you want this to be a planted tank, you could do a silent cycle by heavily planting the tank and then adding in the fish (not too many at once, please!)


----------



## gunnerx (Mar 20, 2008)

I had that air sound too with the Eheim 2217 I got. It would quiet down, then several minutes later do the same thing. As Anthony said, it's just the air pockets trapped inside the filter being cleared out. Now the filter is nice and quiet.


----------



## kweenshaker (Mar 11, 2006)

ok the sound has stopped, so it was just air. (I had bought the filter used and sort of thought the worst...). Yes, I mean it is perpendicular to the ground (ground: horizontal, spraybar: vertical!) I've never seen it this way too, but I tried for about 10 minutes to get the cups to suck and they just wouldnt stay on in any position except the one it's in now.

I don't think you understood the second part - I already have a cycled filter in there (as well as many plants). It's a sponge filter that has been in my old tank for several months - suitable for 80 gallons (according to manufacturer)...so I'm assuming I can start adding my fish a few at a time slowly, but didnt know how long I should wait (the temp. isn't stable yet, but after that is ok, can i go on?) I know I just can't take out the sponge until the eheim is cycled, but how long should that take?


----------



## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

2-3 weeks.

It will cycle better if you take the sponge out of the cycled filter and add it into the eheim, otherwise it is the same as if you were doing a fishless cycle.

Your eheim needs to build up bacteria biofilm on the media and water itself is a very poor medium for bacteria - so just flowing cycled water through a filter is not going to speed up its maturity much.

If you do that, you can no doubt add in fish pretty soon.

I should also mention that if there is no source for ammonium in your tank, trying to grow bacteria biofilms will take longer as they will not have the food they need to develop.

Another option is to add a small fish load now, since you have a cycled filter there now you should be able to support some ammonium production (ie. fish) and that in turn will help speed up the cycling of your eheim.


----------



## kweenshaker (Mar 11, 2006)

ok I'm confused.

First of all, I can't really add the sponge from the filter because it is a sponge filter... http://www.bigalsonline.ca/BigAlsCA/ctl3664/cp17904/si1316325/cl0/lustarhydrospongefilter4

also, I was under the impression that yes, I had to wait for the eheim to cycle before removing the old filter, but why is it that by adding a new filter is my old filter not considered cycled? If I were to add the eheim to my old tank (which i did have on it for over a week) would my other 2 filters count for nothing and would my fish be in danger?

I think I might add a couple kribs though....but I don't want to if they will be hurt.

I guess aquaria isn't about simple reasoning after all....


----------



## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

Sorry, didn't mean to confuse you. Let's look at it this way, easier to understand:

1. Your sponge filter is cycled, so it (hopefully) is supporting bacteria biofilms already. Because of this the nitrogen cycle should be taking place - IE there is the ability for your filter to remove ammonium from the water to produce nitrites, then to take nitrites and turn them into nitrates. In that sense, you can likely support a small fish load right now, even though the sponge filter will not be able to support the bacteria needed to a healthy, properly stocked tank.

2. If you can't add the sponge media itself to the eheim, you can squeeze it out into your eheim, directly adding bacteria into the new filter - speeding up the bacteria cultures in your eheim.

3. Your old filter is considered cycled, one way or another. I think sponge filters suck in general, but it is no doubt supporting bacteria right now.

4. Your eheim is not cycled, so right now is running more as a mechanical filter (just passing water through).

5. The reason the eheim 2217 will not cycle that much quicker just being in a tank with another cycled filter (your sponge) is that water itself does not really contain much of the bacteria needed - so just passing "cycled" water through your eheim won't help it much. Bacteria biofilms develop on things like substrate, plants, driftwood and the substrat in your eheim - not in the water column itself. That said, adding gravel or something from a cycled aquarium will help as well.

6. The reason the best method is to add cycled media into your eheim is because it will directly add bacteria into your filter. Right now there is little ammonia production in your tank so the bacteria trying to develop in your eheim is actually in competition with the bacteria in your cycled filter for ammonia and nitrite.

Does this make more sense?


----------



## kweenshaker (Mar 11, 2006)

yes, thankyou!!!!!

I will try your idea of squeezing out the sponge into the eheim, then I'll still run them together and start slowly adding my fish. I don't really like sponge filters either - the reason I have it was because it was originally for a fry tank back before I got rid of my male kribs (those things are worse than livebearers! lol) 

Anyway, I'll keep testing my water. I don't mind running the sponge for a few weeks if it helps my fish while the other filter is cycling. It's more a matter of getting rid of the old tank. 

thanks


----------



## Cory_Dad (Apr 18, 2008)

To help the bacteria grow you can add a few fish or put fish food in the water and let it decay or you can add ammonia directly. The last way is quicker (I think) and it's also great indicator for when your tank has cycled ie. add ammonia for a couple of days, test for ammonia a few days later, if its gone test for nitrites (add a little bit of ammonia to keep the bacteria alive), if its gone and you have nitrates, it's cycled.

At least that's how I understand it.

Cheers.


----------



## Pablo (Mar 27, 2006)

kweenshaker said:


> ok the sound has stopped, so it was just air. (I had bought the filter used and sort of thought the worst...). Yes, I mean it is perpendicular to the ground (ground: horizontal, spraybar: vertical!) I've never seen it this way too, but I tried for about 10 minutes to get the cups to suck and they just wouldnt stay on in any position except the one it's in now.
> 
> I don't think you understood the second part - I already have a cycled filter in there (as well as many plants). It's a sponge filter that has been in my old tank for several months - suitable for 80 gallons (according to manufacturer)...so I'm assuming I can start adding my fish a few at a time slowly, but didnt know how long I should wait (the temp. isn't stable yet, but after that is ok, can i go on?) I know I just can't take out the sponge until the eheim is cycled, but how long should that take?


Once your temp stabilizes you can start to add a small amount of fish to complete the biofilter seeding. The tank should support a minimal population with minimal feeding. Watch your ammonia and nitrite spikes. They should be tiny and only a couple of days each if at all. Anything greater and you did not significantly enough seed the tank and you will need to import more used biomedia.

Sorry to disagree Chris.


----------



## Pablo (Mar 27, 2006)

Cory_Dad said:


> To help the bacteria grow you can add a few fish or put fish food in the water and let it decay or you can add ammonia directly. The last way is quicker (I think) and it's also great indicator for when your tank has cycled ie. add ammonia for a couple of days, test for ammonia a few days later, if its gone test for nitrites (add a little bit of ammonia to keep the bacteria alive), if its gone and you have nitrates, it's cycled.
> 
> At least that's how I understand it.
> 
> Cheers.


cycling via decay is incredibly bad as ideas go. I've explained why too many times and my wrist hurts but PM me if you wanna know..


----------



## Cory_Dad (Apr 18, 2008)

No need for that Pablo. I totally agree with you. I was just indicating what some people do although I in retrospect I should have said it was bad. My bad.

I'm going the ammonia route right now with my new 20. So far no trace of nitrite.

Things were much simpler when I was a kid; buy a tank with fish and a box bubble filter, fill with water, add fish, clean every 4 months whether it needs it or not, replace dead fish every couple of weeks. Simple. 

Cheers.


----------



## Pablo (Mar 27, 2006)

Times they change


----------



## kweenshaker (Mar 11, 2006)

Cory_Dad said:


> Things were much simpler when I was a kid; buy a tank with fish and a box bubble filter, fill with water, add fish, clean every 4 months whether it needs it or not, replace dead fish every couple of weeks. Simple.


LOL I knew that all too well.
Although the worst was when I brought home a bunch of minnows from the lake at our cottage and put them in a 5 gallon...they were dead within days and made my room stink to high heaven!! (I was about 10 years old and I guess my parents didn't see why this would be a bad idea.) poor fishies.


----------



## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

Pablo said:


> Once your temp stabilizes you can start to add a small amount of fish to complete the biofilter seeding. The tank should support a minimal population with minimal feeding. Watch your ammonia and nitrite spikes. They should be tiny and only a couple of days each if at all. Anything greater and you did not significantly enough seed the tank and you will need to import more used biomedia.
> 
> Sorry to disagree Chris.


Doesn't really disagree with what I said - I agree with you.


----------



## Cory_Dad (Apr 18, 2008)

kweenshaker said:


> LOL I knew that all too well.
> Although the worst was when I brought home a bunch of minnows from the lake at our cottage and put them in a 5 gallon...they were dead within days and made my room stink to high heaven!! (I was about 10 years old and I guess my parents didn't see why this would be a bad idea.) poor fishies.


As a kid I was so desperate for an aquarium I got some grape crates (wine grapes were shipped in these wooden crates) and lined them with plastic and put in sand some minnows and crayfish.

a) The crayfish ate the minnows

b) The crayfish escaped

c) The crayfish dried up and died

d) I got yelled at....

My wife still yells at me...... (JK)


----------

