# Ottawa Aquavalley Cheating on me



## 8888

Ordered more than thousand dollar saltwater fishes. 
Nov 23 2017 recieved DOA. 
Newspapers Wet. Heat pack FAIL.
Sent dead fishes photo immediately 
Dec 9 2017 promised i will have replacement 
Dec 17 2017 promised next week
Dec 30 2017 said he will ship to me asap
Jan 31 2018 said he will arrange shipping from his store. 
Mar 23 2018 said he will ship asap
April 14 2018 to present, he blocked me, and ignores all my email and messages.
Sad year for me. Never order again.


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## youngt3

Tough break!!

Not sure if you want to push it further...Report to BBB or Chamber of Commerce of this poor business and give bad rating.

That could hit his bottom line for his business with poor rating with bad feedback rating


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## 8888

*....*

I asked lawyer. But lawyer fee too high.


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## Joseph93

Did you pay with a credit card? You might be able to ask your credit card company for a charge back.


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## 8888

*----*

I paid them via paypal.
Currently i contact paypal for a claims.
I dont know paypal approve or not because almost 6 months already. 
Total $1695. 
Tax and shipping fee included.
One day i will come to AquaValley and see how is that guy look like.


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## infolific

I believe you have 180 days to file a claim with PayPal. I would do it now. You can always close a claim if the fish suddenly appear, but you can't open one once the deadline passes. Drop in your email correspondence into the claim. If you're close to the 180 day deadline, consider escalating the claim right away. I would be watch out for the merchant tricking you into waiting for a shipment that would exceed the claim expiry date. Also I wouldn't close the claim until you're satisfied as you can't file a second claim once a claim has been closed.

I have found that if you want an answer from a merchant, there isn't much better than a PayPal (or credit card) claim.


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## 8888

*____*

Very interested .
Infolific thx


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## Ashique A

Hi everyone I own aqua valley in Ottawa, Andy/thao/8888 is not being honest here just like his claims with clownfish we sent. 

There are lots of discrepancies and what’s funny he is pretending he hasn’t filed a claim with PayPal, actually he did that more than a month ago, we provided everything to PayPal and PayPal asked him for more information which he has not provided yet. Instead of doing that he comes here start this thread asking what to do lol.

I will post the whole story after PayPal decides on this, thank you.


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## youngt3

Definitely would like to hear both side of the stories and see who is right and wrong in this matter.


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## 8888

*____*

Very good. 
Let post.


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## 8888

*Let community decide it. I should get money back or not.*

Let community decide i should get money back or not. Story below.


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## 8888

*Let community decide it. I should get money back or not*

Let community decide i should get money back or not.


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## 8888

*Let community decide i should get money back or not*

Let see who is two faces


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## 8888

*Let community decide i should get money back or not*

You blamed carrier UPS and me.
But the true is your fault.
You the one who packed and shipped.
NEWSPAPERS WET that is why 
HEAT FAIL
Check my messages again 
Fish died is your fault
Dont blame UPS and me.


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## 8888

*This message is very important*

You received 3 shipping from your supplier with high number of dead on arrival. AND EVEN YOU DONT UNDERSTAND WHY 
I worked hard to save money to buy your fish.
Dont blame everything on me.
Message below.


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## 8888

*Group ordered*

This is group ordered. All information here i got from my group Andy.


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## solarz

Thanks for bringing this to light. It is always good to have transparency with various businesses.

I agree that the UPS snafu should not even be an issue, since it only delayed the order by 2 hours. That is well within any margin of error on delivery time.

I'm reserving my personal judgement until I hear the other side of the story, but it sounds like the moral of the story here is, don't order expensive fish online.


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## LaceyRen

There were sooooo many hoops those poor fish had to jump through: from breeder to seller to UPS to buyer to heat packs failing and weather. Even if everything was optimal, things can still go wrong, you just never know with living things. That's why businesses own most of the responsibility, even though it may or may not be their fault (unless you've clearly stated no guarantees on livestock) 

I didn't like how the seller said "no problem, I'll send you replacement fish" then got annoyed with OP because he did not immediately disclose that UPS delivered to wrong house. I doubt receiving those fish 2 hrs earlier would have changed their fate. 

Also anyone noticed the week long radio silence in mid to late March OP received? That speaks volumes to me. 

OP had not received replacements for months, seller should just reimburse OP and both can move on. 

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk


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## mrfishy

*Absurd.*

This is just absurd those that blame the buyer. Seller knows they are taking a chance when shipping. Don't want to take the chance don't ship. Pretty easy !

COMMON SENSE IS SO LACKING WITH TODAY'S GENERATION !!


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## 8888

*_____*

Any one know anything about death fish certificate ? Paypal want my group to provide that certificate or case close Jun 4
Maybe AquaValley ask for that.
This is crazy.


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## LaceyRen

8888 said:


> Any one know anything about death fish certificate ? Paypal want my group to provide that certificate or case close Jun 4
> Maybe AquaValley ask for that.
> This is crazy.


Lol do those things even exist? I know dogs and cats you go through the vet...

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk


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## mrfishy

*Make it up*



8888 said:


> Any one know anything about death fish certificate ? Paypal want my group to provide that certificate or case close Jun 4
> Maybe AquaValley ask for that.
> This is crazy.


 Since paypal is playing make believe. Do the same. Make up your own certificate and provide it to them.


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## 8888

*_____*

This is sad man.
I think soon they will close this case.
This is a lesson. Never order online.


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## LaceyRen

8888 said:


> This is sad man.
> I think soon they will close this case.
> This is a lesson. Never order online.


Man, that really sucks...sorry bud. I am curious to see Aqua Valley's side of the story, but if all he's got on you is fish death certificates, that just leaves a bad taste in any potential customers mouth.

Seeing your screenshots of messages, I'm definitely on your side. You were clearly jerked around for months.

I hope you get more support from the community and pressure on the seller to get your money back. $1600 for dead fish and empty promises, that's brutal.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk


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## Reis

So as a general consumer (aren't we all) and also a small business owner, it's the people that dedicate whether a business is good or bad. After looking up Ottawa Aquavalley there are some reviews that are red flags in terms of the owner. But I dont see your experience on any of their review platforms?? 

Before I buy anything, especially fish, I'll look up a business and figure out who runs it. That'll tell you everything you need to know about a business. 

I've sent out fish shipment valued at $2600 and it got to the customer dead. Reason was due to neglect on the carriers part. Fish never made it alive to the buyer, its not their fault, why should they suffer? Total ownership is on person sending fish. Yes it's the risk we take, but sometimes shipping is the only way some people get fish. (Ps. I only got half the amount back from the carrier, I was lucky) 

If I were you I'd just share you story on all their review platforms (Google, Facebook, yellowpages) and inform people. All you're doing is sharing your experience and then allowing others to make their own decision on whether or not they'd support that business... you're just sharing the truth. 

As for a death certificate for fish I've never heard of that. The only proof I used when I dealt with stuff was a well documented video or images. Just compile all your stuff as evidence and send it them. Doesn't hurt to try. Also persistence is key. 

It just sucks you gotta deal with it but I just hope you get your money back or at least some! 

Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk


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## 8888

*____*

my group replied to paypal images dead fish. 
And said " i never heard that kind of certificate before. "


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## Ashique A

Hi this is aquavalley again, PayPal is still investigating this claim so I can't say too much yet but few things;

1. This 8888 or Andy is a clownfish dealer/breeder he is not a hobbyist but a clownfish seller/dealer/breeder. No biggie but something to consider. He goes by thao clownfish one of his many names.

2. We don't have problem with replacing dead fish no problem at all if it's our fault, but his story changed a few times which is why we don't know what's going on here.

3. Ups did not deliver 2 hours late, ups delivered at 9 something, Andy reported fish dead at 12, after we sent him pm at 11.40 asking how things go.

4. *Why is ups delivery time so important? Ups said they delivered at 9, Andy said(then in November) that they delivered at 11.30. But when we told him in order to send him free fish this time discrepancy needs to be cleared, that's when he said (now March) that ups delivered it to wrong address at 9 and When he called ups the driver realized the mistake went to wrong address picked up the box and came to his place at 11.30 and delivered the box and said sorry.* Ups can't verify this bizarre story and that's why I am really confused about this claim.

5. In November he said only 2 of 5 heat packs were worm and newspaper wet fish bags intact. In March he said all heat packs failed because they were wet from fish bag that leaked. Now he is blaming the bagging. So his story is inconsistent.

6. Fish were triple bagged with pure oxygen, 5 heat packs were used sealed in styrofoam box and they were dropped off at 4pm, he got them at 9 following morning. Things don't die that fast esp clowns. We have been doing this for 11 years, I can post last 5 ship outs and customers reviews.

Maybe he is playing the same game as that amazon couple who got busted last wk, order stuff and claim for defects etc keep doing it under different names for millions. I don't know. But his story needs to be verified if I am going to send fish.

And Btw he still has not paid the full amount of the shipment.

He needs to prove his ups story and only then I will send him free fish and I will file a claim with ups. Because if he is telling the truth and if it was delivered to wrong address and if they opened box and left it like that outside etc all heat will be lost and fish will freeze, the packaging would be compromised. So there is a case. But so far ups says that never happened. So he needs to track down the delivery guy and prove his story, if that actually happened.


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## Ashique A

Also noticed something weird this 8888/Andy lee/thao clownfish has multiple facebook accounts and more weird the act he used to communicate/buy clownfish was only created days before we sent those fish.


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## 8888

*_____*

Now you say we change story. What is change ,?
What is made newspapers wet ? Can you answer please ?

And newspapers wet caused heat fail. 
Check messages again.

We trusted you. That why we ordered from you. No more after this happen.

UPS delivered to wrong address and come back to us at 11 something . Now You said prove
Fish died. you said prove
Heat fail. you said prove
Newspaper wet. You said prove
You said we changed story. What changed ? Everything is on messages. And you dont believe it. You said prove, prove.

Your teeth very sharp, you can eat live animals without cooked.


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## 8888

*____*

You said (*Ups did not deliver 2 hours late, ups delivered at 9 something, Andy reported fish dead at 12, after we sent him pm at 11.40 asking how things go.)
AquaValley you are realy dangerous man.
We called you many times at 11:15 am , no answered. until 11:35 am you come to open store and pick up phone. Everything started from there. 
Styrofoam box still sealed and tighted.
Dont blame. 
Az very sharp teeth.


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## 8888

*____*

LaceyRen said ( I didn't like how the seller said "no problem, I'll send you replacement fish" then got annoyed with OP because he did not immediately disclose that UPS delivered to wrong house. I doubt receiving those fish 2 hrs earlier would have changed their fate.)

LaceyRen right. 
2 hours earlier wont changed fish fate.


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## 8888

*_____*

AquaValley you promised too many times already. Should we trust you this time or no ?


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## tom g

*hmmm*

u guys need to figure this out .. but its entertaining....


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## 8888

*Let community decide it. I should get money back or not.*

Yeah.
This is lesson to learn. 
Too much issue when order online.
Walk in is the best.
After this case. No matter my group win or lost. I stay away from AquaValley. 
Lose money and got nothing.


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## LaceyRen

My reactions in brackets: 

Hi this is aquavalley again, PayPal is still investigating this claim so I can’t say too much yet but few things; (you've said plenty by your lack of communication, inability to follow through with your multiple promises of replacement fish as per screenshots but each time you failed to ship them "due to delay on breeder" then reimburse the poor guy) 

1. This 8888 or Andy is a clownfish dealer/breeder he is not a hobbyist but a clownfish seller/dealer/breeder. No biggie but something to consider. He goes by thao clownfish one of his many names. (And...???? You're right it's "no biggie" because this has nothing to do with him receiving dead fish) 

2. We don’t have problem with replacing dead fish no problem at all if it’s our fault, but his story changed a few times which is why we don’t know what’s going on here. (So why promise to replace them and then harras him about UPS 6 month after the fact?) 

3. Ups did not deliver 2 hours late, ups delivered at 9 something, Andy reported fish dead at 12, after we sent him pm at 11.40 asking how things go. 

4. Why is ups delivery time so important? Ups said they delivered at 9, Andy said(then in November) that they delivered at 11.30. But when we told him in order to send him free fish this time discrepancy needs to be cleared, that’s when he said (now March) that ups delivered it to wrong address at 9 and When he called ups the driver realized the mistake went to wrong address picked up the box and came to his place at 11.30 and delivered the box and said sorry. Ups can’t verify this bizarre story and that’s why I am really confused about this claim.

5. In November he said only 2 of 5 heat packs were worm and newspaper wet fish bags intact. In March he said all heat packs failed because they were wet from fish bag that leaked. Now he is blaming the bagging. So his story is inconsistent.

6. Fish were triple bagged with pure oxygen, 5 heat packs were used sealed in styrofoam box and they were dropped off at 4pm, he got them at 9 following morning. Things don’t die that fast esp clowns. We have been doing this for 11 years, I can post last 5 ship outs and customers reviews. 

(Dude you are nitpicking and being petty points 3-6. Major points are: fish arrived dead, you promised to replace fish to OP multiple times, failed to do so, and then half a year later blamed the poor buyer of misreporting UPS) 

Maybe he is playing the same game as that amazon couple who got busted last wk, order stuff and claim for defects etc keep doing it under different names for millions. I don’t know. But his story needs to be verified if I am going to send fish. (That is a very insulting and heavy implied accusation)

And Btw he still has not paid the full amount of the shipment. 

He needs to prove his ups story and only then I will send him free fish and I will file a claim with ups. Because if he is telling the truth and if it was delivered to wrong address and if they opened box and left it like that outside etc all heat will be lost and fish will freeze, the packaging would be compromised. So there is a case. But so far ups says that never happened. So he needs to track down the delivery guy and prove his story, if that actually happened. (You are not sending him free fish, you are sending him what he has paid for) OP Don't accept replacement fish at this point, you don't want to risk this all over again, demand reimbursement) 

(Oh and what's the deal with this dead fish certificate Aqua valley? Why ignore the OP for a week back in March? Then you're all buddy buddy with him promising new fish, then change your mind, then ignored OP cut all communication until he posted this on GTA Aquaria. 

Based on your petty responses and poor excuses, you just drove away numerous potential customers. Be a bigger person and a decent seller and reimburse the poor guy. )

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk


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## solarz

Ashique A said:


> Hi this is aquavalley again, PayPal is still investigating this claim so I can't say too much yet but few things;
> 
> 1. This 8888 or Andy is a clownfish dealer/breeder he is not a hobbyist but a clownfish seller/dealer/breeder. No biggie but something to consider. He goes by thao clownfish one of his many names.
> 
> 2. We don't have problem with replacing dead fish no problem at all if it's our fault, but his story changed a few times which is why we don't know what's going on here.
> 
> 3. Ups did not deliver 2 hours late, ups delivered at 9 something, Andy reported fish dead at 12, after we sent him pm at 11.40 asking how things go.
> 
> 4. *Why is ups delivery time so important? Ups said they delivered at 9, Andy said(then in November) that they delivered at 11.30. But when we told him in order to send him free fish this time discrepancy needs to be cleared, that's when he said (now March) that ups delivered it to wrong address at 9 and When he called ups the driver realized the mistake went to wrong address picked up the box and came to his place at 11.30 and delivered the box and said sorry.* Ups can't verify this bizarre story and that's why I am really confused about this claim.
> 
> 5. In November he said only 2 of 5 heat packs were worm and newspaper wet fish bags intact. In March he said all heat packs failed because they were wet from fish bag that leaked. Now he is blaming the bagging. So his story is inconsistent.
> 
> 6. Fish were triple bagged with pure oxygen, 5 heat packs were used sealed in styrofoam box and they were dropped off at 4pm, he got them at 9 following morning. Things don't die that fast esp clowns. We have been doing this for 11 years, I can post last 5 ship outs and customers reviews.
> 
> Maybe he is playing the same game as that amazon couple who got busted last wk, order stuff and claim for defects etc keep doing it under different names for millions. I don't know. But his story needs to be verified if I am going to send fish.
> 
> And Btw he still has not paid the full amount of the shipment.
> 
> He needs to prove his ups story and only then I will send him free fish and I will file a claim with ups. Because if he is telling the truth and if it was delivered to wrong address and if they opened box and left it like that outside etc all heat will be lost and fish will freeze, the packaging would be compromised. So there is a case. But so far ups says that never happened. So he needs to track down the delivery guy and prove his story, if that actually happened.


Number 1-4 are all irrelevant.

I see nothing inconsistent about #5. Heat packs failed and the bags leaked. What more is there to understand?

For #6, while you certainly should do due diligence on any claim, the buyer gave you pictures of the dead fish and the failed heatpacks. That for me, as a consumer, is ample evidence for a DOA claim. You yourself accepted that claim at the time and promised replacement. Now you're reneging on that promise.

Your final paragraph is even more egregious. You are the one who sent out that package. You are the one responsible for making the claim with UPS. If you want to track down UPS and figure out what exactly happened, that's your problem. The only thing the buyer needs to provide to you is proof that he received his fish DOA. End of story.


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