# Neptune Cove order *BEWARE*



## ruffyruff

Beware of some not so good shipped corals! 

Long story short, Toronto_Discus and I ordered some corals from Neptune Cove, coming from an amateur bagger, I could have bagged the zoas better. 

Here's some pictures for my fellow reefers!

1. CandyMan *notice the loss of colors
2. Outer Limit *notice the skirts pretty beaten up
3. Gold Nuggets *nothing wrong here
4. Phantom Menace *looking good here
5. Donnatello *not sure what its up to...

For other people who have ordered, share your pictures!!


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## uniboob

IMO, besides the corals that aren't open they look fine. When was order received? 


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## aquatic_expressions

I have to agree with Unibob... they look fine to me...


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## Flexin5

the last frag doesn't look too hot unfortunally. hopefully it opens.


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## uniboob

Flexin5 said:


> the last frag doesn't look too hot unfortunally. hopefully it opens.


Depending when received, some just take time, some are open in bag arriving.

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## Flexin5

uniboob said:


> Depending when received, some just take time, some are open in bag arriving.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


that's true.


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## ruffyruff

Its weird, the donna looked different the other day, today after work from taking the photo to now.. it still looks the same.


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## altcharacter

I think they look fine. If they were damaged in any way, like being off the frag plug, then I would say you were right.

Pic 1 Loss of color
First off, you took a pic of your zoa in 10k light which wouldn't show the true colors. Also, all corals lose color in shipment. Just give it time and it will come back.
Pic 2 Skirt is pretty beat up
Nothing wrong with the skirt, it will grow back out

As for the last pic, you might want to contact the company about this one. I would say this is the only piece that might have something going on with it. Contact them asap about it so there is no problems later if it needs to be replaced. The polyps might come out later and be alright but if it doesn't then you would have lost a bit of cash.

Good luck with them!


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## ruffyruff

altcharacter said:


> I think they look fine. If they were damaged in any way, like being off the frag plug, then I would say you were right.
> 
> Pic 1 Loss of color
> First off, you took a pic of your zoa in 10k light which wouldn't show the true colors. Also, all corals lose color in shipment. Just give it time and it will come back.
> Pic 2 Skirt is pretty beat up
> Nothing wrong with the skirt, it will grow back out
> 
> As for the last pic, you might want to contact the company about this one. I would say this is the only piece that might have something going on with it. Contact them asap about it so there is no problems later if it needs to be replaced. The polyps might come out later and be alright but if it doesn't then you would have lost a bit of cash.
> 
> Good luck with them!


Thanks ALTCHARACTER! I will be sending the picture to Neptune Cove. Looked at them this morning, it still looks the same...

How do i take pictures properly? My setup is by Stevesled, with standard 5k & royal blues.

They are suppose to look like this -->


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## altcharacter

If these were from the group order, I don't know if you have a leg to stand on. I watched that group buy go thru and it was very interesting.

Good luck either way, but those definitely might be dead or almost dead


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## aquatic_expressions

Most DOA are within 2 hours that delivery is done in most instances. As soon as they arrived they should have been let out of their bags it would have probably increased their chances of survival. Not sure if this was done or not.

They don't look good.

I would put them in a lower light area in the aquarium and hope for the best...

I highly doubt Bill will do anything at this point


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## Patwa

yeah, I was watching this group buy unfold, too and wondering what sort of trainwreck I was about to watch unfold in front of me...

i believe I read that the guy who brought them in (frank?) did not take the frags out of the bag when the FedEx guy brought them in? as he was waiting for people to come pick them up? can someone confirm?

they shd have been taken out the bags as soon as he waved goodbye to the FedEx guy.....get them dipped and into a dark tank with flow, stat

that said, the OP doesn't have much to worry about....all his frags look great, 'cept for the last one...might want to keep your eye on that one!

good looking zoas, though...once they acclimate and stabilize you guys shd have some serious stunners!

EDIT: wooo! 100 posts! holla


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## Patwa

didn't realize we can swear on this site.... not sure if that's a good or bad thing....but I kinda like it 

anyhoo...Seb? i guess you're Frank's boy? relax, man...im not blaming anyone...i don't care, actually...i just want to see these frags live....but i see there are a few unhappy people, so i want to know what happened

i don't understand your post....did you take the frags OUT of the bag before you put them into the tank?

anyways....relax man....they're just corals. You guys took a big risk buying them from the US...you win some, you lose some.

z


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## devin98

I lost about half my order sadly.

Brazilian Paly
Donatello 
Sucker Punch


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## uniboob

The risk is always there when you are getting it shipped across boarder. Papers or not, they can hold it, then there's nothing living. Sucks to hear that it didn't work out for some. How many people were in the order, and is the OP frags from the same group buy? I'm kinda lost a bit. 


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## altcharacter

In this situation, if one person did the group and paid for it then they are responsible for the frags regardless of where they came from. If I paid someone for frags and they didn't live then I get a new frag or my money back. 

If every person in the group buy paid Neptune's individually then Neptune is responsible for the lost items.

It would have been wise to also ship this to buffalo and pick it up there. This would have ensured that the frags were in top condition. By sending it to someone's house and "hoping" they are alright...well that is just plain silly

At this point I think you need to start talking to the person who did the group buy to either refund or replace. 

Good luck with future shipments guys!


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## Patwa

altcharacter said:


> It would have been wise to also ship this to buffalo and pick it up there. This would have ensured that the frags were in top condition.


ding ding ding!

RandyO from 'A Reef Creation' in Buffalo would have helped...he's done this many times for a friend of mine. he'll take receipt of it, and then you can go over at your leisure...no rush. He's a hobbyist and a rare coral collector, first......then store owner 

z


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## aquatic_expressions

I didn't like how everything went with this group buy. To be specific the delay on Neptune cove, paying for citis for non citis corals, and the amount of time from when payment was made till the actual shipment and delivery. I wouldn't blame frank or his son or find them financially responsible for the losses, but that being said I do believe that more could have been done to minimize the losses/degradation of the corals. As Zach said you win some you lose some. If anything this can be a learning experience. There will always be risk when items are being shipped.


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## Flexin5

Patwa said:


> ding ding ding!
> 
> RandyO from 'A Reef Creation' in Buffalo would have helped...he's done this many times for a friend of mine. he'll take receipt of it, and then you can go over at your leisure...no rush. He's a hobbyist and a rare coral collector, first......then store owner
> 
> z


truth. i went over to see him, and forgot to bring my cites paperwork showing that zoas wern't on it, but he was nice enough to print it all out for me again. what i'm confused on was that i thought that zoas didn't need permits to bring them across? i didn't even have to show my paperwork but then again the boarder agent didn't give a .............


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## Patwa

aquatic_expressions said:


> I didn't like how everything went with this group buy. To be specific the delay on Neptune cove, paying for citis for non citis corals, and the amount of time from when payment was made till the actual shipment and delivery. I wouldn't blame frank or his son or find them financially responsible for the losses, but that being said I do believe that more could have been done to minimize the losses/degradation of the corals. As Zach said you win some you lose some. If anything this can be a learning experience. There will always be risk when items are being shipped.


werd.



Flexin5 said:


> truth. i went over to see him, and forgot to bring my cites paperwork showing that zoas wern't on it, but he was nice enough to print it all out for me again. what i'm confused on was that i thought that zoas didn't need permits to bring them across? i didn't even have to show my paperwork but then again the boarder agent didn't give a .............


from what i saw from pics, there was actual liverock included with these frags, even though they were glued to plugs...that would mean CITES is mos def required.

EDIT...but Neptune's Cove could have saved these guys some coin and mounted the zoas directly to plugs....IMHO

zoas/palys/softies on their own (ie. just the coral itself with absolutely no rock) would be OK...just ensure you have printouts and photos and descriptions and wording from CITES and all that jazz in case CBSA asks you about them....if you can't prove anything, they win and you lose the corals

z


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## ruffyruff

Patwa said:


> yeah, I was watching this group buy unfold, too and wondering what sort of trainwreck I was about to watch unfold in front of me...
> 
> i believe I read that the guy who brought them in (frank?) did not take the frags out of the bag when the FedEx guy brought them in? as he was waiting for people to come pick them up? can someone confirm?
> 
> they shd have been taken out the bags as soon as he waved goodbye to the FedEx guy.....get them dipped and into a dark tank with flow, stat
> 
> that said, the OP doesn't have much to worry about....all his frags look great, 'cept for the last one...might want to keep your eye on that one!
> 
> good looking zoas, though...once they acclimate and stabilize you guys shd have some serious stunners!
> 
> EDIT: wooo! 100 posts! holla


Patwa, its still closed, i hope its okay, I dont see it melting *cross fingers*... a friend has his zoas melt in 2 days... its been a few days like this so... lets hope for the best.


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## Patwa

got my fingers crossed for you! don't sweat it though.....you came out with some nice frags......losing one ain't too shabby


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## Flexin5

Patwa said:


> werd.
> 
> from what i saw from pics, there was actual liverock included with these frags, even though they were glued to plugs...that would mean CITES is mos def required.
> 
> EDIT...but Neptune's Cove could have saved these guys some coin and mounted the zoas directly to plugs....IMHO
> 
> zoas/palys/softies on their own (ie. just the coral itself with absolutely no rock) would be OK...just ensure you have printouts and photos and descriptions and wording from CITES and all that jazz in case CBSA asks you about them....if you can't prove anything, they win and you lose the corals
> 
> z


ah that's right i forgot about the live rock thing.


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## ruffyruff

Thanks so much Patwa... knowing that it could take a couple days to open gives me some peace of mind...

Bettathenyou, i m glad yours is doing great! As I said, their bagging skills were really poor.

I also appreciate Frank assisting us with the order!  I'll keep everyone posted with Toronto_Discus and my order from Neptune.


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## Patwa

keep us posted 

FWIW.....Daniel at Aquatic Kingdom got in a Hawaiian paly shipment a few days ago. Some of the palys look just like some of the palys i see you guys ordered from NC.

When I was at AK the zoas were healing, but most shd be open by now....swing by and see.

I reckon the same supplier can bring in the agave morph too, just bug Daniel about it

z


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## ruffyruff

Heres today's picture, dont know what it is spitting out... but looks skinny...


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## Reef Hero

zoapaly said:


> My palys looking ok


Dude! 
Which ones are those?!?

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## aln

Sorry I missed this whole thread but I got your pm.

My candyman was also not on a plug so I glued it onto my re entry plug. I temperature accumulated them and did a 30min drip and also a 2min dip in coralrx 1/2 dose. Have them in a med flow low light area. NC did give me 1 extra polyp of each but that didnt seem to give it better chance in it surviving. Zoa still looks pretty beat up. Ill get a picture as soon as the light comes on. Ill try to get a clear picture but these polyps are really small so its gunna be hard.

update: photos
top are the Candy man and the bottom one is Re Entry, looks the same since i got them.


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## altcharacter

This whole thing makes me sad.


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## aln

I already didnt have high hopes for this but thought I should try it and see how shipping zoa turns out. I treat it as having good zoa on shippment as a bonus so if these make it or not a lesson will be learned for sure.



altcharacter said:


> This whole thing makes me sad.


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## aln

i went to "contact us" and sent them an email with links to the photos and also my email address.


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## advanced reef aquatics

good article for the zoo guys and gals. might help with some issues here as well.
ive had cpl customers mention works great with most stresses as well.
http://www.reef2reef.com/forums/zoa...flattening-out-nothing-you-can-save-them.html


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## rickcasa

aln said:


> I already didnt have high hopes for this but thought I should try it and see how shipping zoa turns out. I treat it as having good zoa on shippment as a bonus so if these make it or not a lesson will be learned for sure.


That's the right approach to doing something risky then you'll never get disappointed. I think we have all learned from your experience but I think the monetary risk should be shared by all group buy participants and not just by the organizer (unless a retailer is the organizer).


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## Toronto_Discus

I basically got the same reply from Bill.



seb19 said:


> Recent email we receive from Bill :
> 
> Frankl,
> I would never pay for anyone elses frags
> you were just the person willing to try and make it happen for them...
> I will replace lost items on the next order you have...
> it does look fishy that almost all of yours opened up, but that one guy says ALL of his are gone- huh???
> I did send you 2 frags of Donnatellos- that may be one of them...
> youy see that "most" of them opened up now- and the others will probably open
> so when you started asking 2 day after receiving it wsas too early to judge which ones wont make it...
> and I would have been just throwing $$ at somebody that still had live polyps... not fair to me....
> -enjoy the extras- let them know that I will replace losses on the next order...
> 
> Bill Connell
> Neptune's Cove
> 3055 W. 15th St.
> Plano, Tx. 75075
> 972.943.3474
> http://neptunescove.net


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## altcharacter

A learning experience for e everyone


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## fury165

seb19 said:


> What we have to do now ? We did not receive any respond from devin98.
> No pictures to proof . We updated Bill every 2 days with the pictures of the polyps in bad shape.
> I be making new order from Bill to just get your polyps back and I will pay for shipping and permit from my own pocket.You guys are blaming me that I'm the guy responsible for your loses
> Thank you very much guys for your support.
> seb


I have no stake in this situation but having participated in one of these I think the responses are a bit unfair. The GB I participated in went smoothly and everything survived - that said, I never once considered the survival of my portion of the order to be the responsibility of the organizer.

Looks like the organizer is doing his damned best to rectify the situation for all participants.

JM2C


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## devin98

seb19 said:


> devin98
> Hi we need these pictures as proof on this tread,in order to contact Bill and ask for a partial refund, or to send us polyps that we lost.
> Please post pictures and also send them to Bill. This is very important
> seb


Sorry I have been out of town, I will take the photos this morning as soon as my lights turn on, they are just sticks left.


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## devin98

First one is what is left of the sucker punch zoas (gone only stick left) second is the Donatello's (gone melted off rock) third is the Brazilian which seems to be making a small comeback.


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## devin98

seb19 said:


> What we have to do now ? We did not receive any respond from devin98.
> No pictures to proof . We updated Bill every 2 days with the pictures of the polyps in bad shape.
> I be making new order from Bill to just get your polyps back and I will pay for shipping and permit from my own pocket.You guys are blaming me that I'm the guy responsible for your loses
> Thank you very much guys for your support.
> seb


There is no need for it all to be paid by you, you are not responsible for peoples polyps you just organized if people want things replaced they can share the shipping and permit costs.


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## wtac

fury165 said:


> I have no stake in this situation but having participated in one of these I think the responses are a bit unfair. The GB I participated in went smoothly and everything survived - that said, I never once considered the survival of my portion of the order to be the responsibility of the organizer.
> 
> Looks like the organizer is doing his damned best to rectify the situation for all participants.
> 
> JM2C


+1!!!

I have been following this thread since the beginning and I hoped that all went well. Unfortunately there are issues and I have to commend seb19 for his transparency from beginning to now.

*IMHO, it should have been mentioned in the beginning and for future livestock group buys, all participants must accept the risk of a bad order.*

The purpose of organizing group buys is to spread out the associated costs, shipping, permits, etc, for what you cannot get in the local market. As long as the organizer is not profiting, it is unreasonable to expect shipping and permits costs to be waived for replacement.

Importers with FUBARed shipments will be credited for the items from the exporter *but will be laughed at* to be expected pay for shipping and permits. It's the one BIG risk that goes with the business.

JM2C


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## tomsfish

wtac said:


> +1!!!
> 
> I have been following this thread since the beginning and I hoped that all went well. Unfortunately there are issues and I have to commend seb19 for his transparency from beginning to now.
> 
> *IMHO, it should have been mentioned in the beginning and for future livestock group buys, all participants must accept the risk of a bad order.*
> 
> The purpose of organizing group buys is to spread out the associated costs, shipping, permits, etc, for what you cannot get in the local market. As long as the organizer is not profiting, it is unreasonable to expect shipping and permits costs to be waived for replacement.
> 
> Importers with FUBARed shipments will be credited for the items from the exporter *but will be laughed at* to be expected pay for shipping and permits. It's the one BIG risk that goes with the business.
> 
> JM2C


Well put Wilson. Excellent points stated here. I completely agree. People have no idea what can happen to livestock shipments and live in a fantasy world where all shipments arrive alive and stay alive.


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## aln

I wont be in. I dont wanna go trouble the trouble again. Lesson learnt.


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## devin98

I PM'ed you this morning, can you give me an idea on price for what I lost?

Thanks


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## Toronto_Discus

Frank/his son: I will opt out from reordering from Bill and I will transfer my credit of lost polyp to you for 1 utter chaos. Thanks.


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## Octavian

Sorry but I am out. This was my first participation in a group buy and it turned out to be a disaster. I'm going to stick to buying from local hobbyists and companies here in Canada.


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## uniboob

aln said:


> I wont be in. I dont wanna go trouble the trouble again. Lesson learnt.


You have his answer  you offering a utter chaos as replacement for his refund is beyond the fact and you just being generous. I see you running this and things going not so good/bad not being your fault at all. It seems by communication between you and the seller that things weren't going well from the beginning.

I would put in your order to get whatever lost polyps you have added up if your wanting to get things rolling as you have done your due diligence to help the people who had lost polyps IMO.

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## aln

Edit.

How do I transfer the 55us credit to you? Also I know its not your fault for the bad shippment bit is there another option then taking zoa as credits? Maybe a small refund back to my paypal for the 55Us credit? Will this option be available?


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## devin98

if its going to be $75 a person to reship its more then the cost of my lost polyps so I may pass as well.

If they remove the polyps from the live rock there is no need for Cities permits thus saving $100.


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## aln

What I meant was you (not neptune cove)send me a partial refund (gift to my paypal) for my store credit instead of me taking the polyps your offering. Its better then me driving an hour up to pick up zoanthids again. Either way I will send an email to bill to transfer mu store credit to you first so I dont stall your time. Will this also be a reasonable option?

Ps. Again I wanna say not a full refund but a partial one. So at least the damage is kind of lessen


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## altcharacter

At this point you might just want to close this thread and PM people if it is getting frustrating.


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## tom g

*re order*

I have been following this and it seems u are trying to make good on 
a order gone bad...u have tried and u cant please everyone so move on 
man.u cant change what has happened ...the other group members
are most likely not interested in dealing with this company ..
just my opinion seem s u are going crazy trying to rectify ...


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## aln

Pm'd you lets just stop this here


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## Greg_o

seb19 just wanted to say I too have been watching this out of curiosity and must say it appears you're going well above and beyond what would be expected of anyone managing a group buy.

Good on ya


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## devin98

I understand group buy orders and I understand the risks involved in shipping livestock. So although I appreciate the offer for free frags Utters and Tort I do not believe you need to be offering these up so I will not accept them. You have lost the most with your day glows I only lost around $100 worth of frags so if you are ordering again please use my credit for your own order.

I thank you for arranging this and having to deal with everything!

-Devin


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## ruffyruff

Could the mods close this up? THANKS!



bettathenyou said:


> everything i got is fine now but looked a bit rough coming out of the bags.
> in the end i was expecting mounted frags not rubble that was caught in the corners of deflated bags.
> 
> nothing i got ended up dead thankfully
> 
> - paid for single my clementines got 8 polyps altho most were not opening until recently
> 
> -free meteor shower cyphastrea that was encrusting over more than half of the my clementines zoa, had to be fragged off before it overtook the zoas
> 
> -i paid for single re-entry got 3 polyps
> 
> - got free 2 polyp smoke signals paly that was on the same rubble as the re-entry
> 
> -paid for single candy man and got like 6 polyp frag altho discoloured just like ruffyruff's candyman they were the most banged up and did not open for two days but are now open
> 
> -paid for single vdm got two polyps
> 
> -single electric oompaloompa is fine
> 
> mine were still in the same deflated shipping bags that they came in until around 10 PM , 8 hours after they arrived as i had no clue i was expected to pick them up the moment they got there. i also assumed they would have been let out of the bags once they arrived.
> 
> that was not meant as a dig at frank and his son, just not what i was expecting and it was not communicated before the corals arrived.
> 
> i still would like to thank them both for taking there time to organizing the order!
> 
> in the end i guess i made out better then most of the others...





Patwa said:


> got my fingers crossed for you! don't sweat it though.....you came out with some nice frags......losing one ain't too shabby


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