# Need Tank Advice



## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

I'm new to fish-keeping, and this is my first tank. It's about 3 weeks old, 20 gallons, and moderately planted.

I currently have 2 guppies and a few pond snails residing in it.

I use the API Freshwater Master Kit, and I consistently get 0 nitrite and 0 nitrate, with a ph of 7.5, I think.

My ammonia seems to be pretty low, but I couldn't be sure that there isn't just a hint of green in that yellow. So I compared with test result from bottled water, and I did notice a very slight hint of green by in my tank water test.

The problem is, I also checked my tap water, and it was MUCH greener than my tank water!

Do you guys think that I should be worried about my ammonia level? Could it be possible that I'm not using enough water conditioner (I use Big Al's), and that the test is actually detecting chloramine? Is there any harm to using too much water conditioner?

Also, what should be my next step in adding fish? I want to keep guppies and neon tetra, but I have read so many horror stories about the neon tetra... Are cardinals a better alternative?

Should I add 9 neon tetras first, or should I add 2 more guppies first? I don't have a quarantine tank, so I can't really quarantine any new arrivals. What do you guys think I should do next?


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## Joeee (Apr 3, 2010)

Concerning the water quality issue, I'm not sure whether or not BA's water conditioner removes chloramine and my internet is much too slow for me to google it for you. I use Seachem Prime which has a high concentration and removes both chloramine and chlorine. However, considering that you're new, you may want to try using StressCoat by API(?) which has aloe vera in it to help your fish by doing something with the slime coat. I've heard good things about this particular conditioner with fish with long fins (such as guppies and bettas), it also removes chlorine and chloramine but I'm pretty sure it's in a [citation needed] smaller concentration and more expensive.

However, what I adviseyou to do is bring a sample of your tapwater to a local fish store which can test your water for free. If their results show ammonia, call your local water company and ask what's going on. It's possible that the ammonia test may just not be working properly. 
When was your last water change? If you have ammonia in your tap water then it should also show up on your tests (unless BA's conditioner neutralizes ammonia, in which case do another test in 36-48 hours) or that since you're 3 weeks into your cycle, you should have a bit of visible (on the test kit of course) nitrites or nitrates even though your tank is planted.

As for the fish, I've never actually heard horror stories about neon tetras, probably because of very little research on my part. But regarding how you should add your fish in, I would add in the guppies first because guppies are schooling fish. Several pet stores won't recommend putting less than 3 together but several forum members will recommend not putting any less than 5 together.
I also don't use a quarantine tank, it's usually because I'm pretty confident that I can treat anything my fish can get (or someone on these forums can) and I take my sweet ass time picking fish to make sure they're healthy.


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

Big Al's does treat chloramines, or at least that's what it says on the label.

I brought a sample of my tank water to a petsmart store once, and all they did was use a test strip. The woman who did the test just told me the water was fine. I had to ask for the numbers. She said the ammonia was 0.5ppm. When I remarked that that seemed pretty high, she told me not to worry, that she's never seen it come out 0. So, I'm pretty sure my API test kit is more accurate.

Like I said, using the API test kit shows a higher ammonia concentration in my tap water than my tank water, which makes me really confused on my water quality right now...

I didn't realize guppies were schooling fish. I was actually hoping they'd reproduce instead of my having to buy more! 

So if I want to keep both guppies and neon tetras in the tank, what numbers should I keep for each?


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## Joeee (Apr 3, 2010)

solarz said:


> Big Al's does treat chloramines, or at least that's what it says on the label.
> 
> I brought a sample of my tank water to a petsmart store once, and all they did was use a test strip. The woman who did the test just told me the water was fine. I had to ask for the numbers. She said the ammonia was 0.5ppm. When I remarked that that seemed pretty high, she told me not to worry, that she's never seen it come out 0. So, I'm pretty sure my API test kit is more accurate.
> 
> ...


I guess that just may be your area that has ammonia in tapwater then.

With guppies, I think I can put this bluntly, males are philanders, you should have at least 3 females for every male, some people recommend 2 for every 1 male but the 1:3 ratio is more widespread. This is to reduce the stress on the female.

Guppies and neons are both schooling fish, I would keep at least 5 of each. I also forgot to mention that there have been accounts of fin nipping in tetras (not uncommon actually). Some red cobras would look nice with neon tetras, better with cardinals though.


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## Joeee (Apr 3, 2010)

I'm sorry but I keep forgetting some important information;

You only need the 1:3 or 1:2 ratio if you want both genders. You could always just do a gender specific tank and if you want guppies for free, just ask on this forum, there are a lot of kind people on this forum who are more than happy to get rid of their guppy fry.


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## pat3612 (Jan 29, 2008)

Where are you located I would take 2 samples your tap water and tank water to Big Als and have them both tested . If you can get some used media from someone you can add that to your filter this will cycle your tank faster. You dont want to get neons unless your tank is well established.


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## dl88dl (Mar 8, 2010)

+1 if you can get a old established media/sponge it will help finish your cycle much faster. If not then get couple more guppies and wait 2 to 3 months before you get the neons/cardinals. The neons and cardinals are not beginners fish and the cardinals are somewhat delicate fish that is sensitive to water conditions and they like softer water and lower PH from 4.5 to 7. The neons are easier but not as nice as the cardinals 

BTW, when I had guppies before I never saw them school together


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## bob123 (Dec 31, 2009)

A good ratio for guppies, I have found, is one male to three females and once they start breeding they will multiply like crazy. Guppies don't school like tetras and wait for a couple of months before adding tetras, when you do add make sure you get about ten as they are a schooling fish and look great in a tank.


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## Joeee (Apr 3, 2010)

dl88dl said:


> BTW, when I had guppies before I never saw them school together


I guess it may just be the wording of the sources I've been using;

http://www.fishdeals.com/livebearers/guppy/
http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/livebearer/guppy.php

They used the word 'school', but I guess what they mean is that they're very social fish and need to be put in a group of X amount to feel security.


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

Okay, so my suspicion was confirmed: the API ammonia test was actually detecting residual chloramine. I added an extra dose of water conditioner to the tank, waited 4-5 hours, and tested the water: it did seem closer to the "0 ammonia" yellow than before.

That's a big relief for me, because that means the silent cycling is working.

I think I might go with a few more guppies and some cherry shrimp. Problem is, I can never find cherry shrimps anywhere!


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

I am now getting a nitrite spike in my tank, somewhere from 0.25 ppm to 0.5 ppm, depending on when I did the water change, which I am doing daily (20-40%).

The tank is 20 gal, with one thick bush of water wisteria, a bunch of hornwort, a bunch of java moss, half-a-dozen stems of m. umbrosum, an onion plant, and two pieces of tape grass. The residents are: 3 guppies, 25 cherry shrimps, 10-20 small pond snails, and a few fries. The plants seem to be growing well, and everything I've read about silent cycling says that I shouldn't be getting a nitrite spike.

What could be causing the nitrite spike? Could the bio-load somehow be too high? What can I do to keep it down?


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

I just dug up this thread because I was looking for some info to help a friend. I remember experiencing some of the same things he's going through.

In the hope that new comers might find this useful, here are my answers to my own questions:


The ammonia I was detecting was from Chloramine. The dechlor I used breaks the chloramine bond, neutralizing the chlorine but not the ammonia. Apparently, Seachem Prime goes a step further and locks up ammonia.

Always read the instructions of your test kit and follow them! Don't rely on test strips.

I did NOT have a "moderately" planted tank. I had a lightly planted tank. I understand now why I lost a bunch of cherry shrimps, I'm just surprised some of them survived!

This is what my tank looked like at the time of the original posting of this thread:


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## splur (May 11, 2011)

solarz said:


> This is what my tank looked like at the time of the original posting of this thread:


Uh lol, that's the cutest tank ever rofl?


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