# Is it possible to have TOO MUCH bio-media?



## vrb th hrb (Feb 20, 2010)

Sounds like a weird question, and call me a retard if I'm way off.....

In my 75 gallon the majority of my filter media is biological. Running a AC 70, and an emperor 400 dual biowheel. The AC has a sponge and a bag of hagen brand ceramic rings. The biowheel is running a dual biowheel, no carbon and the two media cartridges are full of fluval ceramic rings. 

Would this cause my nitrates to stay high as there is TOO much nitrifying bacteria?

my stocking levels are not high, and I havent had a fish loss in this tank...... ever I guess, it's been cycled and running since march.

well, what do the pro's think?


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## arc (Mar 11, 2010)

As long as you're happy with the look/sound of that many filters on one tank, than it's fine. 

You have a lot of extra capacity to hold the nitrifying bacteria but until you have a bio load to feed the bacterias, its just extra space. So if you end up overstocking with fish, you'll have the the bio-media for them. If you end up with only a hand full of small fish, then the bacteria will spread itself a cross the media and you'll have unused areas.


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## vrb th hrb (Feb 20, 2010)

arc said:


> As long as you're happy with the look/sound of that many filters on one tank, than it's fine.
> 
> You have a lot of extra capacity to hold the nitrifying bacteria but until you have a bio load to feed the bacterias, its just extra space. So if you end up overstocking with fish, you'll have the the bio-media for them. If you end up with only a hand full of small fish, then the bacteria will spread itself a cross the media and you'll have unused areas.


yeah they run pretty quiet for me luckily.
i forgot to mention i'm running a sponge filter with a powerhead as well, seems to be pleco feedville most of the time.


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## arc (Mar 11, 2010)

With all the filters, sounds like you're going for a Cichlid tank. They will like the flow and it's good to have some filter backups if one ever fails. 

You shouldn't have to worry about too much bio filtering. The amount of nitrifying bacteria that creates nirates is directly related to how much fish you have. If you overfeed the tank and leave rotting food around, this will add to the food for the bacteria though.


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## vrb th hrb (Feb 20, 2010)

How can you tell  I like cichlids, but i'm keeping it south amercian. I'll be honest, alot of food does hit the bottom, as I have a large group of metae corys, eartheaters, and a collection of plecos. I also water change 50% weekly.

The HOB's will be going until I get enough cash for some eheims


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## arc (Mar 11, 2010)

> How can you tell I like cichlids, but i'm keeping it south amercian. I'll be honest, alot of food does hit the bottom, as I have a large group of metae corys, eartheaters, and a collection of plecos. I also water change 50% weekly.


Most tanks I've seen with that much filtration have Cichlids or loaches. Since you have plecos, I took a guess. For cost/GPH/media volume/power usage/value, the setup you have right now is great. If you can get your hand on an Aquaclear 500(or two), that would be perfect.


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## vrb th hrb (Feb 20, 2010)

arc said:


> Most tanks I've seen with that much filtration have Cichlids or loaches. Since you have plecos, I took a guess. For cost/GPH/media volume/power usage/value, the setup you have right now is great. If you can get your hand on an Aquaclear 500(or two), that would be perfect.


yeah man, I'm always on the lookout for cheap AC 300's and up. Running one on my 75 and one on my 46gal. People dont part with the 500's very often. I talked to Mike at finatics and he runs them himself in the store. beast of a filter. I like the hands on, having to wring out the sponges every other week or so.

Last thing I got a deal on was the used emperor, but since getting back into the hobby after a 4 year lapse, I was reminded of how much I hate them


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## coldmantis (Apr 5, 2010)

the ac110 aka 500 at pj pets is I think 67. I saw it at the scarborought town centre location not sure about others.


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## BillD (Jun 5, 2006)

The only thing that will keep nitrates high is not changing water, and keeping the filters clean. People rarely consider that if you remove the solids from the tank before they are broken down, your nitrates will be lower.


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## TBemba (Jan 11, 2010)

BillD said:


> The only thing that will keep nitrates high is not changing water, and keeping the filters clean. People rarely consider that if you remove the solids from the tank before they are broken down, your nitrates will be lower.


+1 If you change enough water and clean the substrate well you could run a 75 on 2 x #5 Sponge filters.


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## vrb th hrb (Feb 20, 2010)

hmmmm

well I'm still testing, and my nitrates are still running high, even after adding plants, and they are doing pretty well/growing

I change 40-50% water weekly, clean the gravel when changing, and rinse out the filters.

what else could be causing such a spike in my nitrates?


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## Fish_Man (Apr 9, 2010)

vrb th hrb said:


> hmmmm
> 
> well I'm still testing, and my nitrates are still running high, even after adding plants, and they are doing pretty well/growing
> 
> ...


IMO:

1) 40-50% water change is a lot per week
2) rinse out filters weekly?? (rinsing in tank water?) don't think that helps the bacteria colony to build up?


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## vrb th hrb (Feb 20, 2010)

the 40-50% is for the sake of the plecos, as they are big dirty poop machines.

i rinse off the sponge in my ac 300 in tank water. i'd leave it and let it gum up, but then it ends up diverting the flow out over the intake tube.


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## arc (Mar 11, 2010)

What kind of plants do you have and whats considered high nitrates for you?


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## vrb th hrb (Feb 20, 2010)

currently in my 75gallon i have two crinium, rotala, water sprite, hornwort, some small vals, some java moss, and a bit of what I think is star grass.

in the 46 gallon is one large crinium and a large amazon sword.

46 gallon 20+ppm
75 gallon 40+ppm


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## waj8 (Jun 30, 2010)

BillD said:


> The only thing that will keep nitrates high is not changing water, and keeping the filters clean. People rarely consider that if you remove the solids from the tank before they are broken down, your nitrates will be lower.[/QUOTE
> 
> This is true. I used to think a clean filter did not matter until I realized this. Filter cleaning is like the protein skimmer of fresh water tanks. I clean the filter pad on my trickle filter twice a week. I don't ever touch the bioballs though.


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## KhuliLoachFan (Mar 8, 2008)

I recommend you get some fast growing aquatic weeds like hygro, and have a heavily planted tank. Remove overgrowth and whatever your plecos shred. This will really help with nitrate export. 

As for over-filtration, remember that nitrate is an end product. If you think that having fewer filters would lower your nitrate (end product) remember that Nitrate is far LESS harmful per-ppt than nitrite or ammonia. Reducing filtration would NEVER make your tank or your fish healthier: over filtration will only provide more surface area than the bacteria need. The population will always equalize to handle the actual amount of waste your fish provide. With plecos maybe you need to daily vac up their poop.

Warren


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## arc (Mar 11, 2010)

> currently in my 75gallon i have two crinium, rotala, water sprite, hornwort, some small vals, some java moss, and a bit of what I think is star grass.
> 
> in the 46 gallon is one large crinium and a large amazon sword.
> 
> ...


That is high since the plants should be taking a lot of it. Adding more plants or letting them grow out will help. The hornwort should be growing like crazy now. Hope the Cichlid don't eat it all though. Like the others say, if you can remove any waste(leftover food and all the Pleco droppings) before they settle, this will help


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## vrb th hrb (Feb 20, 2010)

KhuliLoachFan said:


> I recommend you get some fast growing aquatic weeds like hygro, and have a heavily planted tank. Remove overgrowth and whatever your plecos shred. This will really help with nitrate export.


Yeah it's looking that way, going to go full out, make a DIY co2 this week as well. 


> With plecos maybe you need to daily vac up their poop.


Yeah, usually I let one of their veggie feedings go without a gravel cleaning, but it looks like I cant let that happen anymore, I'm thinking gravel vac every other day, and especially after the days they get veggies



arc said:


> That is high since the plants should be taking a lot of it. Adding more plants or letting them grow out will help. The hornwort should be growing like crazy now. Hope the Cichlid don't eat it all though. Like the others say, if you can remove any waste(leftover food and all the Pleco droppings) before they settle, this will help


Yeah my corys arent eating up as much as of the leftover as I'd like, because the gravel is too large for them to sift around in. Might either trade em in for a large species I've had success with before like brochis, or just wait for my red hump fry to get a bit bigger and they'll help with sifting thorugh the gravel for leftover.

thanks for the advice all


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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

That is strange, over filtering shouldn't produce more nitrate. Have you checked the ammonia levels in your tap water? If you get high ammonia levels in your tap water, then it's very difficult to keep fish as the end result is always high nitrate. Changing more water won't fix this problem because that tap water is the source of the problem.
The only thing that address high nitrate is plants. Lot's of them.
We have yet to develope any good nitrate filters, but the concept is out there. It's just that no body found out how to do that efficiently.
Another problem as sugguested by others is that you need to clean your filter frequently. Can't let food and poop build up. Especially in a "over filter" set up. Keep in mind that biofilter also have another nick name called "nitrate factory". If you let enough build up of decaying stuff, it will dump loads of nitrate back into your tank.

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