# Cleaning used water



## ScarletFire (Nov 4, 2012)

I find that changing so much water everyday is a waste, and I've just done one water change. Is it possible to somehow make the water clean again? Would an RO machine be the only solution? I've seen threads of people saying that they're doing 50 gallon water changes daily.


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

to be changing 50 gallons daily, omg, that must be a 180 gallon tank at least with major issues.

If you cycle your tank properly and don't over stock it, you can keep wc down. For the most part, wc are for removing nitrates and just making sure there is some fresh water going into the tank.

If your nitrates are so high that you have to do 50 gallons a day then you are doing something wrong, way over stocked or way over feeding.

Live plants can do alot to reduce nitrates. I have even had periods of time where I was stuck with 0 nitrates without doing any wc.

If you are doing 50 gallons a day, and lets say its a 100 gallon tank, that is 50 percent a day. Doing 50 percent a day is just bad for your BB.


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

ScarletFire said:


> I find that changing so much water everyday is a waste, and I've just done one water change. Is it possible to somehow make the water clean again? Would an RO machine be the only solution? I've seen threads of people saying that they're doing 50 gallon water changes daily.


Why are you changing your water everyday?

Unless you are keeping fry and/or something else unusual is going on with your aquariums (high ammonia levels, cycling, medicating, etc), weekly water changes are more than enough.



pyrrolin said:


> Doing 50 percent a day is just bad for your BB.


Not necessarily true; as long as the water is dechlorinated, etc, then there is no harm to the beneficial bacteria. Not many live in the water column.


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## AquaNeko (Jul 26, 2009)

An idea you might want to check out if you are high on nitrates.

http://gtaaquaria.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9293

My thread on aquaponics. Lots of examples of different setups but the filtering is the same with plants. Some plants are known to be high nitrate feeders like for instance with edibles..... strawberries, romaine lettuce, spiniach.

Not sure what you are keeping in your tank. Some people have done aquaponics to raise fodder crops for thier aquapets or other pets like turtles, bunnies, etc or personal ediables.


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## BillD (Jun 5, 2006)

There are ways of refreshing water, but the cost is such that it doesn't make sense economically. The water can be reused for plants and things.
Changing water daily makes sense in certain applications, such as fry raising, where the tanks are usually crowded. It certainly does no harm, and in reality, you can't change too much water, but as mentioned, it usually isn't necessary, although I am in the camp of "more is better"


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## ScarletFire (Nov 4, 2012)

pyrrolin said:


> to be changing 50 gallons daily, omg, that must be a 180 gallon tank at least with major issues.
> 
> If you cycle your tank properly and don't over stock it, you can keep wc down. For the most part, wc are for removing nitrates and just making sure there is some fresh water going into the tank.
> 
> ...


The setup I was looking at was a 250 gallon tank, and was raising pleco frys. I was looking into it because I have a couple that weren't doing too well, and many people said large WC of like 20% daily or 50% weekly. (my tank is 29gallons). Thinking of the water costs, it'll get expensive.


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

Are you using a cycled sponge filter?


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## ScarletFire (Nov 4, 2012)

pyrrolin said:


> Are you using a cycled sponge filter?


Yeah, my tank was cycled for 2 weeks before putting any livestock into it.


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## df001 (Nov 13, 2007)

ScarletFire said:


> Yeah, my tank was cycled for 2 weeks before putting any livestock into it.


fwiw - 2 weeks is barely long enough for things to be stable. did your daily NH4/NO2/NO3 testing show the corresponding changes? thats really the only surefire way to know -seeing the NO2 level drop to 0, and the NO3 appear/climb

And then livestock - the reason why we dont add massive amounts of livestock at once (in terms of bioload) is that it takes time for the bacteria count to increase to a level to be able handle the bioload.

So in adding new livestock - you need to give things a while to reach equilibrium again.

IMHO the only reason to do a massive waterchange is emergency issues - ie a spike because someone died, too much food added etc. 
or regularly scheduled for things like EI fertilizing. again to help reset the tank equilibrium.

Bottom line though, this hobby uses lots of water.


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## ScarletFire (Nov 4, 2012)

df001 said:


> fwiw - 2 weeks is barely long enough for things to be stable. did your daily NH4/NO2/NO3 testing show the corresponding changes? thats really the only surefire way to know -seeing the NO2 level drop to 0, and the NO3 appear/climb
> 
> And then livestock - the reason why we dont add massive amounts of livestock at once (in terms of bioload) is that it takes time for the bacteria count to increase to a level to be able handle the bioload.
> 
> ...


There's 0 nitrates and nitrites, and ammonia was 0ppm when I added livestock. There's a small (?) increase to 1.0ppm when a couple frys died. I read on some pages such as the following that 40-50% water changes weekly is important:
http://www.aquascapingworld.com/magazine/August-2008/August-2008/Bristlenose-Plecostomus.html
http://www.planetcatfish.com/shanesworld/shanesworld.php?article_id=380

I guess it might be that the tank wasn't stable enough.


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

There is no set rule for water changes, it all depends on your setup, filters, how stocked it is and how it is planted.

Some of my tanks should have weekly wc, some are fine for a few weeks.

How did you cycle your tank? if you stop giving it a source of ammonia, then ammonia and nitrites will go to 0 and nitrates will stop going up and your cycle will be lost.

when doing a fishless cycle, you still have to add fish slowly after its cycled for things to balance out.

I am so glad I will probably never have to cycle a tank from nothing again, at least I hope I never have to.


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## ScarletFire (Nov 4, 2012)

I had aqua soil for my substrate, so it leached ammonia into the water. Was that not sufficient enough?


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

now sure if that would be enough, I doubt it though

what kind of ammonia levels did you have when testing?

how high did your nitrites spike?

what did your nitrates end up being?


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## ScarletFire (Nov 4, 2012)

pyrrolin said:


> now sure if that would be enough, I doubt it though
> 
> what kind of ammonia levels did you have when testing?
> 
> ...


It ended up being 0, and ammonia at 1.0ppm at some point a bit after livestock was introduced. I didn't test in the beginning or in the middle because I knew that ammonia was going to be leached =/


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

You need to test in the beginning and middle to see how the whole cycling process is going.

If for example your ammonia only ever got up to .5, that would be kinda low.

If your nitrite spike was only at .5, that would also be kinda low.

If these had been your readings for example, you would be able to put in maybe 2 or 3 fish at the start.

Its always best to add your stock slowly after the initial cycle


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## ScarletFire (Nov 4, 2012)

Ah, I see. How frequently should I test it? Every day? Twice a day?


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

once every day or two I believe

I'm sure there is a nice guide somewhere here about what levels of ammonia you should have and how much ammonia to add and so on.

I cycled my first tank as a total newb and killed many fish.

Now I am able to move used media to new tanks and cycling is almost nothing. I can actually toss in a small load of fish on the first day if temp is right and stuff.

Its just that first darn tank that is the hard part.


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

There is one thing you may want to consider, if you really want to conserve water. It is possible to get a denitrifying filter, and these can reduce water changes dramatically once a tank is fully cycled. 

There is one brand, Aqua something, sorry, the name just won't come to me at the moment, but they have ads all over the place.. if you google denitrifying filter it should pop up. They often have their ads on YouTube where fish videos are. If what they advertise is correct, investing in one of these units can reduce water changes to a huge degree, though not completely. You'll still need a regular filter and will have to clean that, though if you don't want to use tank water to clean the media, use a bit of water you've dechlorinated first. But it can reduce water waste quite a bit. I've thought about getting one, but I'd need one for every tank, and that's too much cost.

What this type of filter does is different from what happens in a HOB or canister filter, they use anaerobic bacteria than convert all nitrites and nitrates to harmless nitrogen gas. They are not cheap, but require minimal maintenance and from what I have read, and various posts I've seen on a number of sites, they work. It's a question of whether you want to spend the money for this device. For a small tank they aren't too bad but for larger ones they are a bit of an investment. But they will save you money on water, especially if you are buying RO water.

Incidentally, their calculations on water savings should be viewed with some care, as they base them on someone using purchased RO or Distilled water only.. no tap water at all. Also bear in mind, installing an RO filter in the house, while cheaper than buying RO in bottles, will also waste a certain amount of water via the filtration process itself. For every gallon of filtered water you get, a given amount is used up and goes down the drain. Check into how RO filters works, before you consider installing one. It's all in how much you want to spend, and how you feel about water usage.

I use as much of my tank water as possible to water plants, so it does not all go down the drain. I wish I had a garden I could use it in.. but that's a lottery win that has not happened yet. If you use one of those Python type things to do WCs, the one made by Aqueon has a feature that will allow the waste water to be collected in a bucket, rather than go down the drain. You'd have to buy the fitting for the tap, which is sold separately as well as in a kit,another section of tubing to go to the bucket and I think one more accessory piece that fastens to the bucket tube. Python brand fittings do not allow for this conversion, only Aqueon.


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