# How big is too BIG?



## davec (Jan 19, 2010)

Will be buying a bigger tank soon after the 10 gallon failure. How big of a tank can I buy before I have to worry about placement issues in the house ie before I have to worry about placing the aquarium beside a load bearing wall vs inside wall/ placement of tank in relation to joists in the subfloor etc. I have a relatively new house ~5 years old.

Right now it will be a freshwater tank but may consider using it for saltwater in the future (ie what would be a reasonable sw starter tank?)

Lastly any suggestions in water test kits for ammonia/nitrite and nitrate any particular brand you guys recommend?



Thx


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

I would say around 75g, but it would really depend on the house structure.


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## Riceburner (Mar 14, 2008)

considering newer houses....just think your big bathtub holds more than a 90, so get as big as you want and position it across support beams and be done with it once and for all.

GO BIG!!!!!


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## WiyRay (Jan 11, 2009)

My house is like 25years old and it just feels like any step you take can take you down to the next floor at any moment. Put it in the basement like me if you're worried about the ground support. 

Heck... make you're entire basement a fish tank!


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## Tbird (Oct 5, 2009)

Riceburner said:


> considering newer houses....just think your big bathtub holds more than a 90, so get as big as you want and position it across support beams and be done with it once and for all.
> 
> GO BIG!!!!!


LOL!! I like the go big theory....But remember they know they are putting a bath tub there so there will be extra support!!


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## kaegunim (Jan 15, 2010)

Any larger tank should be placed against either an outside wall, or if you know which ones they are, an internal loadbearing wall (outside wall preferred). Either way, you are going to want to position your tank such that the long axis of the tank is running perpendicular to the joists. (A cheapie 20$ stanley studfinder will work ove lino easy, and possibly through carpet (I doubt it will read through tile, I have never tried). It will definitely work to read through the ceiling of the room below.

If you have your house's blueprints it is easy to tell.


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## bigfishy (Jun 19, 2009)

They are all small fries talk!

GO BIG as in 3 digits! 125G+

Idea aquarium would be 400G+



one of the member have a 220G tank that placed on the main floor!!!! It's so Cool! xD


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## Riceburner (Mar 14, 2008)

I've seem my house being built...and many others. Nothing extra under the tub area that I've noticed. 12" on center 2x8s. My tanks are in the basement though.


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## Tbird (Oct 5, 2009)

Riceburner said:


> I've seem my house being built...and many others. Nothing extra under the tub area that I've noticed. 12" on center 2x8s. My tanks are in the basement though.


Oh OK!! I figured they would brace more. Not sure if this will help.

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/aquarium_weight.php


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## Riceburner (Mar 14, 2008)

Yeah, I've seen that before. It did remind me of a couple of things. They base it on 16" OC...I noticed mine were 12" OC. And a big tub full of water may be twice that of a 90G tank...but it's temporary weight.... the tank will be there full time.

But I still say figure it out once and GO BIG!!!


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## Tbird (Oct 5, 2009)

Riceburner said:


> Yeah, I've seen that before. It did remind me of a couple of things. They base it on 16" OC...I noticed mine were 12" OC. And a big tub full of water may be twice that of a 90G tank...but it's temporary weight.... the tank will be there full time.
> 
> But I still say figure it out once and GO BIG!!!


LOL...I still agree with you about going big!! Just making sure that Dave's tank doesn't end up in the basement after it started on the main floor. LOL


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## davec (Jan 19, 2010)

*Which store do you guys recommend?*

I'd like to get a complete kit. Tank hood stand plus an integrated hood filter if possible. Saw an 18 gallon AA aquarium package at the Alternate Aquarium store in Burlington. Looked beautiful, but the 18 gallon tank I'm worried is a bit too small. The sales guy did not think it would be a problem in holding a pair of rams and half a dozen cardinals + a cory.

Miracles aquariums sounds interesting but aparently from readin this forum they don't deal with the public. Does BA carry them?

Thx


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## davec (Jan 19, 2010)

*Answered my own question*

Just read a previous thread re Miracles and Big Al's


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## qwerty (Dec 15, 2009)

I don't know how they're building houses these days, but I can tell you that today's houses will never last as long as the old houses did, and the old houses definitely had extra supports under the bath tubs...

Since today's house frames are still made of wood, I would assume that they should still be adding extra support underneath the bathtubs. Maybe they're positioning bathtubs above load bearing walls to cut down costs or something, I don't know, I'm not an architect or a structural engineer.

If I were you though, I would put it in the basement either way.

You never know what can happen in the living room, especially with guests over...

And if the aquarium should ever leak or burst, all that water's just going to destroy any nice flooring you have, as well as any electrical wiring beneath it, if the structural beams don't dry properly you could be in for a lot of trouble in the future, and if you have a ceiling in the basement, the water will just break through it.

So really considering what could happen, I would keep that tank in the basement... 75gal is a LOT of water... Nevermind 100gal+


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

davec said:


> I'd like to get a complete kit. Tank hood stand plus an integrated hood filter if possible. Saw an 18 gallon AA aquarium package at the Alternate Aquarium store in Burlington. Looked beautiful, but the 18 gallon tank I'm worried is a bit too small. The sales guy did not think it would be a problem in holding a pair of rams and half a dozen cardinals + a cory.
> 
> Miracles aquariums sounds interesting but aparently from readin this forum they don't deal with the public. Does BA carry them?
> 
> Thx


Skip the kits. I think someone here has a thread saying they bought one and all they ended up using was the free little pack of fish food and the little packet of dechlor.

Instead, buy the components separately and get what you'll actually use. Might be a bit more expensive initially, but you'll actually get use out of the equipment you buy


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## AquaNeko (Jul 26, 2009)

Riceburner said:


> considering newer houses....just think your big bathtub holds more than a 90, so get as big as you want and position it across support beams and be done with it once and for all.
> 
> GO BIG!!!!!


Now I'm curious, how many gallons does the standard bath tub hold? We're talking standard and not any fancy ones.


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## Marowana (Jul 28, 2009)

qwerty said:


> I don't know how they're building houses these days, but I can tell you that today's houses will never last as long as the old houses did, and the old houses definitely had extra supports under the bath tubs...
> 
> Since today's house frames are still made of wood, I would assume that they should still be adding extra support underneath the bathtubs. Maybe they're positioning bathtubs above load bearing walls to cut down costs or something, I don't know, I'm not an architect or a structural engineer.
> 
> ...


i have over 400 gallons of water in my dinning room on the main floor, all against load bearring walls. my biggest tank is a 220 with a 75 sump. but this tank sits ontop of a steel beam that runs across the basment plus 1 side of the tank is against an outside wall.

i think you can put a 75 gal anywhere in the house.


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## AquaNeko (Jul 26, 2009)

Dave,

I spoke with a few aquarium shops and home improvement stores. Just happened that one guy was into engineering and aquariums while I was looking into landscaping supplies. It seems so far out of all the places I've spoken to 40gal long or standard would work on all levels of the house. I was given answers from 40gal to 75gals but most seemed to agree 40gal is structually safe on all levels of the house and 75gal is pretty much when you're looking into thinking of reinforcing the floor if you go over that amount.

As someone mentioned before already knowing where the studs are helps with planning where to put the tank. Obviously if you're in the basement IIRC a landscaping company told me concrete is 2000psi and I don't think you'll be maxing 2000lbs in one square inch area.  

http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=197652&page=8



> thomcat482 (Mechanical) 17 Sep 07 13:38
> i am building a house in waynesvile, nc (3700 elevation). Would there be an advantage to pouring the footers and basement floor with 5000 psi instead of 3000 psi concrete. the local standard is 3000 psi at 6" for the floor, however i have see a lot of cracks in basement floors in the area.


http://www.cement.org/basics/concretebasics_faqs.asp



> What is 3,000 pound concrete?
> 
> It is concrete that is strong enough to carry a compressive stress of 3,000 psi (20.7 MPa) at 28 days. Concrete may be specified at other strengths as well. Conventional concrete has strengths of 7,000 psi or less; concrete with strengths between 7,000 and 14,500 psi is considered high-strength concrete.


So it seems 3000psi is the base so far from my research for concrete loading.  Make the whole basement a NOM NOM Pihrana tank fully stocked and the next time someone plans on robbing your place via a basmeent entry will be in for a freak out. Have fido run bio security on the upper floors. 

You could also take up your floor on the upper levels of your home and reinforce them if you want a larger tank up there as I was talking with Adam at Indoor Jungle before with some ideas and the guy knows a little about reinforcing.


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## BeerBaron (Sep 4, 2009)

Tbird said:


> LOL!! I like the go big theory....But remember they know they are putting a bath tub there so there will be extra support!!


You'd be surprised then, because I've never seen extra support being added in the Bath Tub area.

2x8's, followed by T&G Plywood followed by by your tub and spray foam underneath to keep it properly secured.

I'd say yo'd be fine putting something 90+, If you're worried choose areas you feel are safer. Such as outside walls, or anywhere else you have joists sitting on beams.


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## shrtmann (Feb 15, 2009)

I have a 75g in my dining room and its been there for about almost 4 years now. No bowing or any creakikng boards around or anything. I also have a friend that has 90g in his kitchen and its been there for quite a few years..IMO id say anything over 90g and you might be pushing it.

also remember 1g of water weighs 8.35lbs. so a 90 g tank would weigh about 750lbs. plus stand, tank, gravel, rocks and other crap


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## qwerty (Dec 15, 2009)

> i have over 400 gallons of water in my dinning room on the main floor, all against load bearring walls. my biggest tank is a 220 with a 75 sump. but this tank sits ontop of a steel beam that runs across the basment plus 1 side of the tank is against an outside wall.
> 
> i think you can put a 75 gal anywhere in the house.


I wasn't refering to the weight of the tank being the problem. I was refering to the possibility that the tank would crack or leak at some point in the future, which could very well happen.

Enough people have experienced aquarium failures resulting in water loss that I would personally plan for it if it could mean the difference between replacing my basement carpet and rebuilding my main floor and basement ceiling. Better to be safe than sorry, right?


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## AquariAM (Jan 28, 2010)

I look at it this way- would you put a couch with 3 people on it in that location? Because if you would, that's about six hundred fifty pounds, which is a 55G with gravel and decorations and a stand.


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## CICHthis (Oct 10, 2008)

Another way to look at it is this. Think of people who have installed water beds in there bedrooms, depending on the size of the waterbed, you do the calculations. With engineered beams, they are supposed to be stronger and can hold more weight, but for peace of mind, place it near a load bearing wall, whether be it internal or external. How to find out which way the beams are running, just figure out which is shorter, front to back or side to side, normally it's side to side coz they are the shorter of the two runs, or find the ducts, if they sit below the ceiling, that means the duct is perpendicular to the support beams.

I have 2 x 40 G tanks with a 30 G sump below it and a 20 G grow out on the second floor. Haven't had problems with it being up there.


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## Marowana (Jul 28, 2009)

qwerty said:


> I wasn't refering to the weight of the tank being the problem. I was refering to the possibility that the tank would crack or leak at some point in the future, which could very well happen.
> 
> Enough people have experienced aquarium failures resulting in water loss that I would personally plan for it if it could mean the difference between replacing my basement carpet and rebuilding my main floor and basement ceiling. Better to be safe than sorry, right?


alright, now i get what you are saying. i've had water leaked on my floor from a faulty seal on a cheap canister filter before!


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## qwerty (Dec 15, 2009)

AquariAM said:


> I look at it this way- would you put a couch with 3 people on it in that location? Because if you would, that's about six hundred fifty pounds, which is a 55G with gravel and decorations and a stand.


There's a huge difference between static loads and dynamic loads when it comes to floor support. Static loads require a much stronger structure to support. An aquarium is a static load. A couch with people on it is a dynamic load.

I would personally consult someone who actually knows something about how your house is built, and has good experience with what sort of weights those floors will hold. I think you've got too much on the line with a large aquarium to just guess and hope you're right.

But concrete has a load rating of 2000-3000lbs per square inch. You'll never have to worry about weight in a basement... Also, you can build a bar down there... With a keg fridge... And you can invite me over... Sound good?


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## Fishfinder (Feb 17, 2008)

WiyRay said:


> Heck... make you're entire basement a fish tank!


Thats a dream of mine.... make a basement into a reef tank and have scuba gear!!!


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## CanadaPleco (Sep 7, 2009)

qwerty said:


> I wasn't refering to the weight of the tank being the problem. I was refering to the possibility that the tank would crack or leak at some point in the future, which could very well happen.
> 
> Enough people have experienced aquarium failures resulting in water loss that I would personally plan for it if it could mean the difference between replacing my basement carpet and rebuilding my main floor and basement ceiling. Better to be safe than sorry, right?


I;ve had a bunch of leaks happen before, never had a tank crack or explode. Even tho I have still had leaks I still have a 90g in my bedroom, and a 150 (including sump) in my living room. Its on hardwood and there have been a few issues with it screwing up the hardwood pretty bad (cupping) but in a few months it settled back down as the water slowly dried out of it. I dont think size is an issue at all with regards to leaks. 5 gallons of water leaking out of a 20g tank or a 200g tank is still 5g of water on the floor/drywall etc.

I have also had canisters leak before, not fun either. But again the size of the tank they are on doesn't matter for leaking... Its stil going to leak the same amount of water, might even be easier to notice that water on the floor with a smaller tank.


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