# Undergravel filter - setting up a planted tank



## jon021 (May 19, 2009)

I'm converting a cichlid tank into a planted tank, and i was wondering if anyone could tell me whether i should reuse the existing undergravel filter in the planted tank - or just scrap it. My dad insists that its a great system, but from what i understand.. it just traps the crap at the bottom of the tank. Maybe i'm wrong - so i'd really appreciate it if someone could enlighten me.

I was also wondering what the best and cheapest substrate is that i could go with for a planted tank. I'm going fairly low tech, no co2 since its a small 29 gallon. What i had in mind was some nice black gravel mixed with a bit of eco-complete. I will be dosing with ferts and possibly flourish excel if the plants really need it. Although i'm looking to use low-medium light plants - lighting will be around.. 1.5-2 watts per gallon. 

Thanks
- Jonathan


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

It is generally not a good idea to use a UGF in a planted tank. Most plants do not like the excessive water movement past their roots. In addition, as you mentioned, a UGF will trap debris and other detritus in the gravel, requiring gravel vacuuming. However, gravel vacuuming is not really an option, especially in a planted tank.

For substrates, you could go with a plain (regular) pea-sized gravel. Black gravel mixed with Eco-Complete would work too.

Don't forget that if you are aiming for 1.5-2 WPG, that this (the WPG guideline) was based on T12 bulbs, and not the newer T8, T5 or T5HO bulbs. In essence, if you had 2 WPG of T5HO lighting, your tank would be considered high light and not low light (and would thus require CO2 and both macro and micronutrients dosing).


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## jon021 (May 19, 2009)

Darkblade48 said:


> It is generally not a good idea to use a UGF in a planted tank. Most plants do not like the excessive water movement past their roots. In addition, as you mentioned, a UGF will trap debris and other detritus in the gravel, requiring gravel vacuuming. However, gravel vacuuming is not really an option, especially in a planted tank.
> 
> For substrates, you could go with a plain (regular) pea-sized gravel. Black gravel mixed with Eco-Complete would work too.
> 
> Don't forget that if you are aiming for 1.5-2 WPG, that this (the WPG guideline) was based on T12 bulbs, and not the newer T8, T5 or T5HO bulbs. In essence, if you had 2 WPG of T5HO lighting, your tank would be considered high light and not low light (and would thus require CO2 and both macro and micronutrients dosing).


Thanks, i'm just going to get rid of the UGF.. if i was to use CFLs.. planning to use 2 of the 23watt spiral bulbs.. how would the wpg guideline apply to those? i don't know how to calculate the efficiency of those spiral bulbs..


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

Spiral CFLs are a bit hard to calculate, since there is a lot involved (i.e. height of the lights, efficiency of reflectors, whether the bulbs are horizontally placed or vertically placed, etc).

Here is a good post from TPT.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/lighting/85667-par-data-spiral-power-saver-bulbs-2.html#post837592

I would say you might have just under 2 WPG with two 23W CFL bulbs.


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## characinfan (Dec 24, 2008)

Having used an undergravel setup for 7+ years, let me tell you -- they suck! They are loud and not very effective. Go for a canister.

C.


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## bae (May 11, 2007)

For a well-planted tank that size you don't need much filtration. The plants are your bio-filter, so all you need is something to circulate the water a bit and catch particles. Almost anything will do -- a small HOB, in-tank power filter, or even a couple of air-driven box or sponge filters, one at each end.

As for substrate, you can really use almost anything. I grow a lot of plants in sand. In general, you want a particle size less than 3mm. 

Low tech planted tanks were what everybody had in the old days, and this was with really awful incandescent lighting. The UGF was the start of a viewpoint that approached water maintenance with the technology of sewage remediation rather than the earlier view of managing aquaria as microcosms of nature. Now we're getting back to that, but with a different, more technical slant.

If you're going low tech, you may find that you don't need to fertilize, either. The fish provide both major and minor nutrients, and you get a new supply of iron and other trace elements every time you change water.

So a low tech planted tank isn't very difficult. In some ways it's easier than a tank without plants, because the plants are so beneficial to water quality. They suck ammonia right up, and don't release it as nitrates. Small fish are much less stressed when they have plenty of cover available. They'll be out in the open more because they know they can dive for cover instantly. I find a planted tank to be much easier on the eye, too, although in nature you seldom see an aquatic biotope that resembles a planted tank. Plants just look good to people.


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## jon021 (May 19, 2009)

I had a hob filter running on the tank when it was set up as a cichlid tank.. i plan on just reusing that for water circulation.. would i need to add extra aeration with a pump? i have another planted tank set up already for shrimp only without an air pump - would it be any different for fish in a planted tank? I'm heading out soon to pick up some new substrate for the planted tank, i'm having a hard time choosing between sand and gravel. I've heard that sand can be a little difficult to work with when siphoning the tank.


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## Calmer (Mar 9, 2008)

Referring to what bae said about the plants being the biofilters. In a planted 38 gal. aquarium with 6 - 3" long BN plecos I am using a power head with a sponge prefilter on the intake. An air line is connected to the venturi that adds small bubbles to the powerhead's output. The plants, in addition to all of the bacteria on their surface, are my filters and so far everything is working good. I may have to do more gravel syphoning of feces but that may be because of the plecos getting bigger and eating more.


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## bae (May 11, 2007)

jon021 said:


> I had a hob filter running on the tank when it was set up as a cichlid tank.. i plan on just reusing that for water circulation.. would i need to add extra aeration with a pump? i have another planted tank set up already for shrimp only without an air pump - would it be any different for fish in a planted tank? I'm heading out soon to pick up some new substrate for the planted tank, i'm having a hard time choosing between sand and gravel. I've heard that sand can be a little difficult to work with when siphoning the tank.


Airstones add air mostly by circulating the water in the tank so more of it reaches the surface. Not much is actually added from the bubbles. Go with the HOB for now, for water circulation and as a mechanical filter.

You don't really have to, or want to siphon a planted tank, since the mulm acts as fertilizer and you don't want to disturb roots. I seldom siphon except when there's a pile of dead leaves, etc, accumulated in a corner, but if I ignore it, it goes away. If you're siphoning to do a water change, you can put a cup or bowl or jar in the tank and have the siphon draw from it.

I think fine gravel (1-3mm) should be the easiest to start with. A dark color looks best. It's hard to find sand around here that isn't white (silica sand) and doesn't contain limestone.


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## jon021 (May 19, 2009)

I really appreciate everyone's help, i've gone ahead and set up my planted tank already. I chose to go with black gravel, i found sand but the price was going to cost double than that of the gravel so i decided to be cheap. I've got most of my plants in already, i picked up most of them from jamesren - i'm working on landscaping still and looking for a good and cost effective lighting system. I'm usuing a hob filter on the tank, setting the temp at 74 - as i'm planning on moving my white clouds into the tank with the cardinals i'm going to get from bigfishy. I'm also looking for some bee shrimp - but haven't been able to locate any in the gta area. Anyone know where i can find some?


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## AquaNeko (Jul 26, 2009)

jon021 said:


> I really appreciate everyone's help, i've gone ahead and set up my planted tank already. I chose to go with black gravel, i found sand but the price was going to cost double than that of the gravel so i decided to be cheap. I've got most of my plants in already, i picked up most of them from jamesren - i'm working on landscaping still and looking for a good and cost effective lighting system. I'm usuing a hob filter on the tank, setting the temp at 74 - as i'm planning on moving my white clouds into the tank with the cardinals i'm going to get from bigfishy. I'm also looking for some bee shrimp - but haven't been able to locate any in the gta area. Anyone know where i can find some?


I believe I saw some at Indoor Jungles shrimp tank (enter fish room and go all the way to the left and near the back of the store)

http://www.theshrimpfarm.com/bee_shrimp.shtml


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## jon021 (May 19, 2009)

AquaNeko said:


> I believe I saw some at Indoor Jungles shrimp tank (enter fish room and go all the way to the left and near the back of the store)
> 
> http://www.theshrimpfarm.com/bee_shrimp.shtml


When was the last time you went? i dropped by yesterday and i didn't see any - i only saw cherries, amanos and orange bees. I was kinda turned off by their tank conditions so i didn't look around much so i might've missed it. They had a whole tank of dead female bettas covered in fungus.


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