# Local ources for DIY CO2 regulator parts.



## diagnosis

I was wondering if anyone can recommend a good source, local to the GTA, that supplies the fittings/parts/solenoids/etc. to build your own CO2 regulator?
I'm not really interested in ordering the parts online, as I am sure they available locally.

Hopefully, I can eventually build a DIY, that includes the sources, and parts list, to help us build our own regulators using local suppliers, but I've still got a lot of research to do. 

I'd better get to it.

Graham.


----------



## lemuj

hey Graham, I'm in the same boat as you so I'm gonna let you do the research and hopefully you can share the infos, lol. Or maybe we can get the parts in bulk to make it lighter on the pocket.

princess auto is local, they have a store in Mississauga, they actually sells those co2 refills that you use to used for way cheaper.. Give them a try.


----------



## FlyingHellFish

Same goes for me.

Let me know what you guys find, even if it's ebay or local. I'm thinking of a doing a dual stage but I can't find any good regulators. 

Same thing for single regulators, might just take the chance on ebay and get a used one.

Have you guys taken a look at the Aquatic Life Compact paintball rig? It's a nice looking single stage with an adapter for paintball. The draw backs are the cheapo needle valve and the cost. BA has it for 200 dollars which is ridiculous with no bubble counter, check valve, tubing. 

What kind of set up are you guys looking for? 5 - 20 lbs cylinders or just paintball?


----------



## Jsu

check out this link. its a good start.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/diy/115850-paintball-co2-injection-diy-setup-tons-55.html


----------



## Kooka

Just say no to the paintball setup, unless you'll be actually using it for paintball  Get a 5-10lb tank, build your regulator, and you wont regret it. If you can, get a solenoid so that you can turn the co2 off automatically at night (running co2 at night is just a waste of money, no matter what anyone says).

For the regulator components, try any welding supply stores like Unitec, etc... IMO eBay or American suppliers would be your best bet.


----------



## charlie1

I`m not in your neck of the woods but do know there is a brewing company in Oakville that sells some good single stage regs( Micromatic) cost will be a tad higher that the US but with shipping etc it works out to be only a small cost more.
For solenoids there is a clippard dist. in Mississauga, there were some recent issues with a batch of the Clippard solenoids but can tell you i personally have being using them for a long time now & have not encountered any issues other that one got clogged from debris from the co2 tank, easy clean out & back in service, BTW they can get the Clippard check valves & needle valves too , but i`m not a fan of the Clippard needle valves.
For needle valves , do a search for a Swagelok distributer in your area, i`m sure they have one in your neck of the woods.
Bubble counter - Aquainspiration
In the end you might very well find that it is easier & probably cheaper to buy a reg kit from guys like Sumo regulators.
I will post links later to the companys i mentioned here along with part #`s if you like.


----------



## FlyingHellFish

Good info,

I have read that thread and I think a real co2 regulator would be better in the long run.

Those ASA on/off are not really regulators and the needle valves are taking quite a beating from the constant pressure. They're not rated to withstand that much psi, I can't remember the stats but it's all there in that long thread. I honestly think you will be better off throwing in 30 more dollars for a real regulator. 

I think the best way to go Co2 is to just buy a quality rig first, you can always remove the paintball adapter and upgrade to those 5 - 20 lbs cylinders. I personally do not have room to have a giant tank laying around.

I was thinking of getting a Fabco needle valve along with the Aquatic Life rig but I can't justify the 200 dollars price tag from BA. There are a few people on that forum that actually build and sell various regulators and let me tell you, it's not cheap. They have dual regulators for 300 - 400 dollars. Way too expensive for my taste. I also hear mix review of Dual vs Single stage.

There a risk of EOTD End of tank dump for single regulators so you guys should factor that into your build. I think a single is fine, just have to monitor the tank's psi. 

Anyone want to be a test subject for those AI's chinese Co2 rigs? Not really a fan of those Co2 rigs because I can't find a single soul to vouch for their quality.


----------



## charlie1

charlie1 said:


> I`m not in your neck of the woods but do know there is a brewing company in Oakville that sells some good single stage regs( Micromatic) cost will be a tad higher that the US but with shipping etc it works out to be only a small cost more.
> For solenoids there is a clippard dist. in Mississauga, there were some recent issues with a batch of the Clippard solenoids but can tell you i personally have being using them for a long time now & have not encountered any issues other that one got clogged from debris from the co2 tank, easy clean out & back in service, BTW they can get the Clippard check valves & needle valves too , but i`m not a fan of the Clippard needle valves.
> For needle valves , do a search for a Swagelok distributer in your area, i`m sure they have one in your neck of the woods.
> Bubble counter - Aquainspiration
> In the end you might very well find that it is easier & probably cheaper to buy a reg kit from guys like Sumo regulators.
> I will post links later to the companys i mentioned here along with part #`s if you like.


Here you go, 
Draught services Oakville ( i think it`s a divison of the beer store) the micromatic is # *02378*
http://www.thebeerstore.ca/sites/default/files/widget/grid/large/39-41_AirlineFittings.pdf

Clippard Solenoid MME-2PDS-CLIPPARD 1/8" NPT DIRECT ACTING 2-WAY check valve - Clippard MCV-1BB check valve

http://www.wainbee.com/aboutus/locations_en.asp

This is one of many swagelok needle valves that are adapted fpr our use, depending on which one you get you will need the fittings to assemble , usually the swagelok guys will help you when you tell them what you are doing - #B-4MA
But as i mentioned it might be less of a hassle & just as costly to buy one fully assembled, i personally swear by Sumo regulators premier line, as far as single stage regulators go they are quality builds & have personally ran a tank to the end ( unknowingly) & did not suffer any End of tank dump with this reg. build - the last one on the page with bubble counter.
http://sumoregulator.com/PremierLine.html


----------



## FlyingHellFish

Sumo regulators have sellar reviews but how come the last picture has that bubble counter in front of the gauges. 

How much was shipping to Canada, did you end up with any duty or other charges?


----------



## charlie1

FlyingHellFish said:


> Sumo regulators have sellar reviews but how come the last picture has that bubble counter in front of the gauges.
> 
> How much was shipping to Canada, did you end up with any duty or other charges?


They can place the bubble counter pretty much any way you like it, i have no problems where it is .
Best to contact them ( Serge) for details of shipping etc., since when i dealt with them was quite a few years ago in their infancy years, they customized my rig with 2 needle valves& bubble counters @ that time they were using swagelok needle valves & now use Ideal Valves , you can see a reference to my rig in this thread
http://gtaaquaria.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30220
I can tell you i have since replicated 2 of those builds myself & have not find the savings to be worthwhile when you consider you get a good quality check valve & tubing, *note i do not work for or receive any commission from SUMO, just a very satisfied customer*
Regards


----------



## FlyingHellFish

About the bubble counter, I was talking more about the placement of the counter when they took the picture. Just a few extra minutes and they would of avoid a lot of questions regarding the placement. It's no big deal, I already know they are class A rigs as every forumI read regards them highly.

You are completely right about the cost saving, it's make more sense to get one pre-made and avoid the time consuming task of finding each parts.

Great tank and set up by the way. Didn't realize that tank was yours. 

How long did you operate the rig before you realize it was almost empty? The solution to EOTD (other than dual rig) is to connect the solenoid to a ph monitor. Do you think it's worth the price? 

Save is a concern for me, what are your opinions on Nano regulators. Talking about the GLA Atomic Nano Paintball version and AquaticLife Co2 Nano. Also, do you think those AI Co2 rigs are any good? 

Sorry if it sound like I'm high jacking the OP's thread. I think the info here will help a lot of people.


----------



## charlie1

FlyingHellFish said:


> About the bubble counter, I was talking more about the placement of the counter when they took the picture. Just a few extra minutes and they would of avoid a lot of questions regarding the placement. It's no big deal, I already know they are class A rigs as every forumI read regards them highly.
> 
> You are completely right about the cost saving, it's make more sense to get one pre-made and avoid the time consuming task of finding each parts.
> 
> Great tank and set up by the way. Didn't realize that tank was yours.
> 
> How long did you operate the rig before you realize it was almost empty? The solution to EOTD (other than dual rig) is to connect the solenoid to a ph monitor. Do you think it's worth the price?
> 
> Save is a concern for me, what are your opinions on Nano regulators. Talking about the GLA Atomic Nano Paintball version and AquaticLife Co2 Nano. Also, do you think those AI Co2 rigs are any good?
> 
> Sorry if it sound like I'm high jacking the OP's thread. I think the info here will help a lot of people.


Hope this is not interpeted the wrong way, that said i usually don`t offer opinions on stuff i never personally used & vice versa i tend to value the opinion of people who have used or done a method Also those who are qualified in such fileds, so i can`t comment on the rigs you mentioned.
I personally don`t see any benefits of paint ball rigs, the usual argument put forward for them is space, i think most hobbyist will find space for a 5 lb bottle or in other cases 2.5 lb bottle, the cost & frequency of refilling co2 is a big factor in this( always go with the biggest bottle you can fit & afford, price in refilling between sizes is minimal).
Thanks for the kind remarks on the set up
Oh my 79 gallon is now on a PH controller which only controls the PH during photo period.
OP apologies for the mild hijack 
Regards
P.S. i thnk the bottle ran empty for approx 3 days before i noticed i was seeing the usual perling from the tank.


----------



## FlyingHellFish

Yeah, I took a look at your thread and you have a very beautiful tank. It looks as if you some how stole the large tank at AI and brought it home with you. 

I'm still going to buy a normal Co2 regulator, it's just I want to see how far a 20 - 24 oz cylinder will get me. I didn't mean the paintball set up with those ASA on/off rigs.


----------



## Darkblade48

You should be able to get solenoids from Clippard distributors. I have Swagelok metering valves kicking around 

Your hardest find will probably be the bubble counter (which can be DIY'ed, however), and the regulator.


----------



## FlyingHellFish

Know any places beside online, for the regulator ? Single or Dual, doesn't matter to me.

You selling your metering valve? Which model is it? What you think of Fabco ones?


----------



## Darkblade48

FlyingHellFish said:


> Know any places beside online, for the regulator ? Single or Dual, doesn't matter to me.
> 
> You selling your metering valve? Which model is it? What you think of Fabco ones?


There are some beer stores that are in the south end of Scarborough; I believe they sell Micromatic single stage regulators. Of course, it will still be more expensive than buying online.

I have the Swagelok SS31RF2 and also the B-SS2-A metering valves.

The Fabco NV-55 is the bare minimum that I recommend, in terms of needle valves.


----------



## charlie1

Darkblade48 said:


> I have the Swagelok SS31RF2 and also the B-SS2-A metering valves.
> 
> .


Excellent Valves


----------



## diagnosis

Thanks everyone who has replied so far, as the information, advice, and links that have been posted, have given me a really good starting point for building my own regulator. 

I want to go with the Micromatic regulator body, as it appears to be really good quality, and as a bonus it looks pretty decent. My phone calls to Draught Services this weekend went unanswered as they are closed on the weekends, but I'll try to get a hold of them this week and find out availability and pricing on the regulator.

Anthony, your Primer to Pressurized CO2, is amazing, and I will be referring back to it constantly during this build. You mentioned Sempress on Wolfedale Rd. as a Fabco dealer, which is very convenient for me as they are literally down the street from where I live. Again, they are closed on the weekend, but I'll call, or drop by this week to see if the NV-55-18 is available, and pricing on it.

I don't intend to use a regulator mounted bubble counter to start, as my diffuser has one built in, but the DC brand is available at Aqua Inspiration, for approximately $15.

Thanks again for the information, I really appreciate it.


----------



## diagnosis

Well, I finally made the phone call to Draught Services in Oakville to get pricing on the Micromatic regulator.

Parts Catalogue

Part #: 02378
'CO2 < 35psi - Wrench excl.'

$82.00 + taxes.

1-800-668-4718

I also picked up a 10lb CO2 tank from fellow forum member, kiloman. It's a converted Fire Extinguisher, with a new valve installed. Thanks again Kris!

$90.00

I found a local Swagelok dealer in Mississauga, and I plan on picking up any fittings I need there, and hopefully the needle/metering valve as well. After browsing through their product catalogue, I like the B2-MA4. I may be wrong, but being 1/8"npt, it should be easy to find adaptors and fittings for it.

B2-M4A metering valve

Swagelok - Weston
3585 Laird Rd.
Mississauga ON.
L5L 5Z8
1.800.268.2959


----------



## charlie1

diagnosis said:


> Well, I finally made the phone call to Draught Services in Oakville to get pricing on the Micromatic regulator.
> 
> Parts Catalogue
> 
> Part #: 02378
> 'CO2 < 35psi - Wrench excl.'
> 
> $82.00 + taxes.
> 
> 1-800-668-4718
> 
> I also picked up a 10lb CO2 tank from fellow forum member, kiloman. It's a converted Fire Extinguisher, with a new valve installed. Thanks again Kris!
> 
> $90.00
> 
> I found a local Swagelok dealer in Mississauga, and I plan on picking up any fittings I need there, and hopefully the needle/metering valve as well. After browsing through their product catalogue, I like the B2-MA4. I may be wrong, but being 1/8"npt, it should be easy to find adaptors and fittings for it.
> 
> B2-M4A metering valve
> 
> Swagelok - Weston
> 3585 Laird Rd.
> Mississauga ON.
> L5L 5Z8
> 1.800.268.2959


 You won`t regret it, does your Swagelok supplier keep those valves in stock or they have to order it? BTW i use the BMA & they are just fine.
If you are not picky about mixing the brass look with the Chrome look you can save on the fittings needed to assemble by going to your local Home Depot.
If you want to mount a bubble counter on your rig you can get them from Aquainspiration but i would advice an added check valve between the bubble counter & the needle valve ( Swagelok)
Regards


----------



## FlyingHellFish

Fellas hold on, let me get in on this.

What are the parts you're buying beside the Micro regulator. Is it dual stage? Does it come with the double gauges or is this just the unit? 

Where does the bubble counter go, and what that funky thing beside the gauges? And is 35 psi it's rating? That super low (which is a good thing), the single regulators state numbers such as 150 psi. I'm not too sure what this mean, is it the pressure the regulator is able to bring Co2 down?



I heard of Victor, Matheson, Parker and Go, how come those look so much better than the Micro. Wish they sold a SS version of that Micro. 

Also, if anyone is interested, there a Swagelock location in Scarborough. Defiantly going to get my metering valve there.


----------



## Darkblade48

FlyingHellFish said:


> Fellas hold on, let me get in on this.
> 
> What are the parts you're buying beside the Micro regulator. Is it dual stage? Does it come with the double gauges or is this just the unit?


If it is the Micromatic regulator that I am thinking of, then it is a dual gauge, single stage regulator.

It should come with the gauges.



FlyingHellFish said:


> Where does the bubble counter go, and what that funky thing beside the gauges?


The bubble counter goes after the needle valve. The Micromatic regulator is designed for beer keg use; coming from the regulator body is a hose adapter (i.e. for beer keg use). Remove it and replace with the appropriate fitting to connect to your solenoid/needle valve.



FlyingHellFish said:


> And is 35 psi it's rating? That super low (which is a good thing), the single regulators state numbers such as 150 psi. I'm not too sure what this mean, is it the pressure the regulator is able to bring Co2 down?


I am not sure what you are trying to ask here. However, if it is the Micromatic regulator that I am thinking of, then it will be able to bring the CO2 pressure from 800-1000 PSI down to an operating pressure of ~30 PSI.



FlyingHellFish said:


> I heard of Victor, Matheson, Parker and Go, how come those look so much better than the Micro. Wish they sold a SS version of that Micro.


The Micromatic regulator is a single stage regulator, as mentioned. Victor, Matheson and Parker make single stage and dual stage regulators. As mentioned in my guide, dual stage regulators are heavy duty, and will also prevent EOTD. The trade off is that they are significantly more expensive than single stage regulators, if bought brand new.

I would keep an eye out for Swagelok sales. I have sales on Swageloks from time to time.

Hope this helps,


----------



## diagnosis

I'm going to keep this short, but I picked up the Micromatic regulator this afternoon at Draught Services.

I went to Wainbee for the solenoid, but unfortunately they had nothing in stock. I had called ahead, and was told to drop by, and they could probably find something that would work. They did have solenoids, but unfortunately they were for 1/2" npt, and WAY overkill. Good customer service none the less.

I dropped into the Swagelok distributor on Laird Dr. and got the pricing on a couple of the metering valves.

The B-4MA was $67.14
The B-2MA4 was $71.09

The metering valve pricing starts around $60, and goes up from there. They didn't have them in stock, but they can have them within 3-4 days. Again, great customer service.


I ended up dropping into Sempress on the way home, and ended up dropping some money there.

First, the customer service was excellent. They helped me put something together on the spot. 

I went with the NV-55, and will mount it in line for now as they didn't have the adapter fitting in stock. I wanted the NV-55-18, with the 1/8"npt ports, but they had the NV-55 in stock (I got the last one). The NV-55-18 is also $11 more. 

They put a solenoid together for me as well. It is made by a company called Peter Paul Electronics, and appears to be of good quality. I misplaced the receipt, but I'll post the part numbers when I get a chance tomorrow. 

I want to put it together tonight, but it will have to wait.


----------



## charlie1

Interested in the pricing of the NV valve & the solenoid, can you post a picture of your build.
Thanks


----------



## diagnosis

charlie1 said:


> Interested in the pricing of the NV valve & the solenoid, can you post a picture of your build.
> Thanks


I'll take some pictures tomorrow, and put them up.

I don't have the receipt with me, but IIRC, the valve was around $22, and the solenoid was around $25. The plug connector was less than $4.

I do remember the cost of the whole purchase though, because I had exact change 

So, valve, solenoid, plug and fittings came out to $66.38

I picked up a bubble counter at AI tonight for $15.

I guess that puts me right around $265 total, including the tank.


----------



## FlyingHellFish

Good info Dark, do you have any swagelock currently? 

diagnosis, hurry with the pictures as I'm dying to see the finish product.


How much was the whole build excluding the Co2 tank.


----------



## Darkblade48

FlyingHellFish said:


> Good info Dark, do you have any swagelock currently?


Yes, I do.



FlyingHellFish said:


> How much was the whole build excluding the Co2 tank.


Without the CO2 cylinder, my build was $105. With the CO2 cylinder, it was $180. Could have saved $30 if I waited a bit longer


----------



## diagnosis

The regulator setup cost $175 without the tank. As Darkblade mentioned, if I wasn't so impatientD), you can score great deals on second hand regulators on e-bay, craigslist, or kijiji. You could easily save $50 (if not more) on a second hand regulator.


----------



## diagnosis

As promised, here is the 'finished' regulator. I still plan on mounting the needle valve and the bubble counter a little differently, but this is pretty much the finished setup. I intend to mount a small piece of aluminum angle to the solenoid bracket, and mount the nv and the bubble counter to it, pretty much in the locations they are already in.

The bubble counter is the 'Dici' brand from AI, and it has a built in check valve.

The only problem I am having so far, is that the solenoid is getting quite hot. I have been reading that this can be a problem, and is because these solenoids are not meant to stay open for 8 - 12 hours at a time, and were meant for a much shorter duty cycle. Does anyone have any input on this?


----------



## FlyingHellFish

Isn't there a Cool touch version of the solenoids. You can also try to get those mini solenoids.

Is that a single stage? 

I'm digging the Fabco NV and the blue tubes. Did you get the blue from AI as well? 

How the rate of Co2 going? Steady? What do you have it set on? 

Sorry for all the questions, I'm considering this build. You have done a great job and I think a lot of people will benefit from this thread ~ location, product id etc.

@ Dark - Too bad you live in Japan, was going to ask what model swagelock you got.


----------



## charlie1

diagnosis said:


> As promised, here is the 'finished' regulator. I still plan on mounting the needle valve and the bubble counter a little differently, but this is pretty much the finished setup. I intend to mount a small piece of aluminum angle to the solenoid bracket, and mount the nv and the bubble counter to it, pretty much in the locations they are already in.
> 
> The bubble counter is the 'Dici' brand from AI, and it has a built in check valve.
> 
> The only problem I am having so far, is that the solenoid is getting quite hot. I have been reading that this can be a problem, and is because these solenoids are not meant to stay open for 8 - 12 hours at a time, and were meant for a much shorter duty cycle. Does anyone have any input on this?


 You won`t regret that Micromatic regulator, the next best thing to a dual stage regulator in my experience with them.
That is a good price for a decent NV , Fabco NV is no slouch & at that price it`s worth every penny, i think you said they do get the 1/8 ports? as opposed to the 10/32? is it the same price?
BTW all the Clippard Solenoids i`v used in the last 7+ years do get warm to the touch not sure how warm this one you have is.
Your ghetto mount is neat , you can also consider doing a satellite mount by running the tubing from the solenoid to the cabinet/ stand & hard mount the NV & Bubble counter there.
Good job on the build


----------



## diagnosis

Thanks for the compliment Charlie! 

@ Flyinghellfish, it is a single stage regulator. 

The Blue airline was a standard 1/4" line Sempress had in stock. I believe they come in many different colours, so that it makes it easier to identify lines in an industrial setting. 

The solenoid gets quite hot, almost to the point where I can't hold on to it for very long. This may not mean much, as my girlfriend calls me 'asbestos hands', so it really does get quite hot.  

The NV-55 was around $21, and the NV-55-18 was about $11 more. The guys at Sempress didn't realize they were available until I mentioned it. They would be able to order it in, but obviously didn't have it in stock.


----------



## Darkblade48

FlyingHellFish said:


> @ Dark - Too bad you live in Japan, was going to ask what model swagelock you got.


I travel around; if you see an advertisement in the Sale section, it means I'm back in the GTA


----------



## charlie1

diagnosis said:


> Thanks for the compliment Charlie!
> 
> @ Flyinghellfish, it is a single stage regulator.
> 
> The Blue airline was a standard 1/4" line Sempress had in stock. I believe they come in many different colours, so that it makes it easier to identify lines in an industrial setting.
> 
> The solenoid gets quite hot, almost to the point where I can't hold on to it for very long. This may not mean much, as my girlfriend calls me 'asbestos hands', so it really does get quite hot.
> 
> *The NV-55 was around $21, and the NV-55-18 was about $11 more*. The guys at Sempress didn't realize they were available until I mentioned it. They would be able to order it in, but obviously didn't have it in stock.


 Sempress is quoting me 53.00 before taxes & shipping for 55-18 ( crazy is what i say) i bought a couple online from Fabco direct & had it shipped to a US address.


----------



## FlyingHellFish

Isn't the Fabco hovering around the 20 - 30 dollar price range? 

The more I look at metering/needle valves, the more I'm liking those Ideal ones. Is it crazy to paid 100 dollars for a top quality needle valve? Some people say the cheaper ones are fine as long as you set it right.


----------



## Darkblade48

FlyingHellFish said:


> Isn't the Fabco hovering around the 20 - 30 dollar price range?


It should be, at least for the NV-55



FlyingHellFish said:


> The more I look at metering/needle valves, the more I'm liking those Ideal ones. Is it crazy to paid 100 dollars for a top quality needle valve? Some people say the cheaper ones are fine as long as you set it right.


In general, you get what you pay for, especially with this type of equipment.

That being said, you can still find metering valves that are equivalent to the Ideal for much cheaper, if you are patient on eBay. I bought my Swagelok for $8 (shipping included)...

There were some Parker metering valves going for $3 awhile back as well. I know someone that purchased 20+ of them


----------

