# Newb - looking for direction



## pacogolf888 (Dec 9, 2012)

Guys, I've been trolling the site for weeks. Finally determined I want a planted tank with some fish. I've got a great spot in mind. The front/face of the tank can not be longer or wider than 36" <-- that's my only restriction.

Here's the first multi-part question to get me started: What size? Do I go small (10-20G)/Med (20-30)/Large(30+)? What are the advantages or each?

Other questions will surely follow...

Thank you all for your response.


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

I recommend you go larger as a general rule.

But there are some things to consider

budget, larger tanks cost more, all the equipment costs more, having more fish costs more.

Type of fish you want, such as either community or semi aggressive or cichlid or shrimp or even goldfish.

Size of fish you want, If you want something large like an oscar, you will need min 75 gallon and a 36 inch long tank isnt long enough for a fish like that. Going by the 36 inch max, I would not to have fish larger than 4 inches for the most part, because most need room to swim around, larger fish need more room generally.

How much work do you want to do every week on it? African cichlids need to be higher density and this causes you to have to do more water changes.

Aspect ratio and depth, I have a 35 gallon in my living room that is 36 inches long but to me personally, it is a little high. This tank is also only 12 inches deep. I personally like any tanks over 30 inches long to be 18 inches deep. What I really want in this spot is a 36 inch 50 gallon tank.

Tank shape, do you want a regular rectanglular tank, or maybe a corner tank, bow front, hex, or even a square tank.

Once you can answer some of these questions, we can help out much better with ideas


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## pacogolf888 (Dec 9, 2012)

I personally like schools of smaller fish. Tetras, guppies, a male betta and I would like some shrimps. 

As for cleaning - I'm hoping between where the tank will be located (avoid algae), excellent equipment, and a proper ecosystem - I will only have to clean every 2 weeks to a month.

I have no preference with the shape of the tank. Hex or square could mean larger tank. Currently, the perfect width/length of the tank can not exceed 36". 

I prefer to start slowly and properly. Equipment first, then substrate, decor (rocks/driftwood/more rocks?), then plants, then fish. Based on what I've read, between cycling and budget, this could take 6 months before I could/should add fish.


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## xriddler (Feb 16, 2012)

If you are going pressurized co2 make sure you have enough space to put your co2 tank and etc. example if you have a canister filter in the cupboard you might have to find a space for co2 tank if it doesnt if next to the canister. so your 3ft space might shrink for your tank.


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## pacogolf888 (Dec 9, 2012)

How important is it to have CO2 tank for the plants? Is it a matter of the plants not thriving or is it a matter if the plants would not survive?
I do plan to have a canister filter.


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## xriddler (Feb 16, 2012)

plants depends on the amount of light. the higher the light the more nutrients it absorbs and co2 will be needed for their photosynthesis process. so it all comes down to high tech or low tech tank. high tech you can grow anything, low tech you have to stick with low light plants and depending on which method you go with a low tech maybe able to handle even medium light plants.


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

guppies don't school

you can't put a male betta with any other fish

You probably want mostly tetras of some types, they are normally smaller schooling fish. Where I live, it is hard to find cheap fish, cheapest neon tetras are 2.99 each which gets kinda expensive when you want a dozen or so.

I personally love all my cat fish and loaches but many of those are a little big, if you like catfish check out some different cory catfish, like panda cory. When ready for an algae eater, a good option would be Otto's but you may want someting like a bristlenose pleco to.

You also need to figure out what type of look do you want. My first tank I had green gravel, plastic ornaments, some with bubble things, lots of cutsy things. I have since changed everything to all natural, all live plants, driftwood, rocks.

Substrate choice is another thing to consider. There is gravel and sand. Sand types are really good for catfish and stuff but it does take a little practice to clean it, but its not too hard once you get the hang of it. The other choice is gravel which is easier to clean and has more choices for colour.

I currently use playsand in most of my tanks. If money was not a problem for me I would be using black flourite sand. I would love to have a very dark sand but it is quite expensive and more so in my case with a 48 x 18 footprint in 2 of my tanks.

Another option for substrate is a mixture, some people use a little red clay in the bottom and then some potting soil topped off with either gravel or sand. I recommend not using sand if using soil, unless you get a very dark sand. I tried soil with sand on top and when I moved plants some soil came up and it just ended up looking bad after a while due to the contrast with light sand and dark soil.

There is also gravel types that are made for planted tanks.

You are probably best off getting a canister filter. They cost more at first but they are worth it, much quieter, cheap to maintain and great circulation. Also, if you tank is 30 gallons, make sure the filter is rated for 50 or so gallons. Well worth the couple extra bucks to go over with the filter, but you don't want to go totally nuts and put a 200 gallon filter on a 20 gallon tank

for lighting I recommend at least dual T5 if doing low tech, or dual t5ho if you want to try high tech. If you want a natural colour spectrum, go with 6500 or 6700 k light bulbs.

for stock, I would first visit your local fish stores and just look around and take note of any fish that catch your eye and look up info on each of those.

Live breeders can be good and bad, these are mainly molly, guppy, swordtail, platy, enders. In a well planted tank you will have a fair amount of fry surviving to adulthood which can quickly increase your population. Guppy are probably the worst, I swear they are born pregnant. I bought about 2 dozen feeder guppies to keep a tank cycled and I've moved them around a little bit, currently they are in a 55 gallon and I estimate that there are about 100 in the tank right now. I have about 20 mollies that were born in my tanks to.

One more important thing that you need to be aware of, its a very common fish disease known as MTS. MTS starts out as nothing but can quickly take over. MTS stands for Multiple Tank Syndrome. I have a full blown case of MTS. I have a total of 17 tanks but at least currently there are only, hmmm, let me count, 8 tanks setup at the moment, with 8 more to be setup soon. I have at least 1 tank on every floor of the house, 1 on the top floor but that is for my 4 year old and his fancy goldfish, then on the main flow I have a 35 community and a 5.5 gallon betta tank. All the rest are in the fishroom err basement. Once you get started you find fish that you want but discover that they either won't fit in your current tank or are not compatible with your current fish so you get another tank so you can house that new type of fish and then it expands. Quite often MTS starts with a quarantine tank that is recommended to help keep your other fish safe and is very useful. Other people living in the house may start to get a little more upset with each additional tank. It is recommended to try to hide the extra tanks in the basement so they aren't seen daily by others.


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## Ischemia (Dec 19, 2012)

pyrrolin said:


> you can't put a male betta with any other fish


Yes you can...You just have to be prepared with another tank to move the betta to incase things dont work out well for it in a community. The main thing is to avoid fish that like to nip at the tail of a betta. This list came from a Betta forum I frequent

*generally compatible fish for bettas*

*----Name of fish-------minimum tank size------minimum group number*
Ember tetras--------10 gallons----------six
Habrosus cories--------10 gallons----------six
hastatus cories------10 gallons-------------six
Von-rio tetras-------------15 gallons---------ideally 7 or more
Pristilla tetras------------10 gallons-----------six
Head and light tetras----10-------------------six
Cherry barbs----------15 gallons----------------six
Neon tetras-------------10 gallons------------ Six
Neons tetras can be a bit nippy when kept in small numbers so you would need atleast 6 to house them properly with a Betta 
galaxy rasboras------------10 gallons-----------Six
panda and pygmy cories------10 gallons-----------Six
most other cories-----------15-20 gallons -----Six 
harlequin rasbora -----------10 gallons---------Six
non fancy female guppies------10 gallons ------- Three
endlers livebearers------------10gallons---------Three
zebra danios-----------------3.5 foot tank-------Six
Bristle nose plecos------------2.5 foot tank-------One
Bushy nose plecos-------------2.5 foot tank------One
non colorful platies------------10 gallons---------Three
glo fish----------------------3.5 foot tank--------Six
rummy nose tetras------------15 gallons-----------Six
glo light tetras----------------10 gallons----------Six
cardinal tetras----------------15 gallons----------Six
X ray tetras-------------------10 gallons----------Six
"feeder guppies"---------------10 gallons-----------Three
Khuli loaches------------------2 foot tank--------Six
Scissor tail rasboras-------------10 gallons----------Six
Otos---------------------------10 gallons---------3 - 4
Bloodfin tetras-------------------15 gallons-------- Six
Rasbora Brigittae-----------------5 gallons----------Six
Black neon tetras------------------15 gallons-------six
Yoyo loaches

*Shrimp that are compatible with bettas*

Ghost shrimp---------------------2.5 gallons --------one
Amano shrimp-------------------2.5 gallons----------one
Cherry shrimp-------------------2.5 gallons---------one
and a little note about shrimp, they are a hit and miss, some bettas are fine with shrimp and some aren't but all of my bettas have been fine with shrimp that are over 1 inch. I would suggest that a well planted tank with lots of cover should be used when having small ghost shrimp or cherry shrimp

*Snails that are compatible with bettas*

Apple snails------------------10 gallons-----------one 
Ramshorn snails------------5 gallons---------one
Malaysian trumpet snails---2.5 gallons--------one
Pond snails--------------------2.5 gallons---------one
Nerite snails------------------5 gallons----------one
Snails are a hit and miss too with bettas some will tolerate them but some will chop their feelers off

*sometimes compatible fish with bettas*

*---Name of fish------------Minimum tank size------minimum group number *

male, and female Fancy guppies----------10 gallons-----------three 
Sparkling gouramis------------------------10 gallons----------one
bright and colorful platies----------------10 gallons-----------three
Black widow tetras----------------------20 gallons------------Eight to not be as nippy
sword tails----------------------------2 ft. Tank------------Three 
Mollies-------------------------------25 gallons ----------3
Lyre tail guppies-----------------------10 gallons-------------Three

*Fish that are rarely compatible with bettas*

Including information regarding minimum group and tank size for this part of the list would most likely encourage people to further on and try the compatibilities which I wouldn't recommend.

Serpae tetras
other bettas
SA cichlids
NW cichlids
Dwarf gouramis
Tiger barbs
Honey gouramis
Angel fish
Honey gouramis
Boesemani rainbows
Red tailed sharks
Any type of crayfish with claws over half an inch

Hope this helped!


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## monk21 (Dec 5, 2012)

you CANNOT put ANY other fish with bettas. Let me rephrase that... you SHOULD NOT put any other fish with bettas. The fact that some do it doesn't make it right. The aim is not to do what CAN be done but to do what is right and has not bad consequences for the fish.

Bettas stay alone alone alone alone


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## malajulinka (Mar 29, 2008)

Whether you decide to go low or high tech largely depends on what you "get out of" fish (or tank ) keeping. Me, I like to have some greenery with things swimming around to look at. My 10-gallon lowtech is so overgrown I can sometimes hardly see the shrimp or fish, just with two CFLs over it, a Miracle Gro substrate, and no CO2. I top up the water once a week, sometimes change a bit of it. That's about it.

If you like "tinkering" then look into high tech. You can really grow some beautiful stuff, but to me it seems like too much work. Notice I said "to me"!


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## xriddler (Feb 16, 2012)

malajulinka said:


> My 10-gallon lowtech is so overgrown I can sometimes hardly see the shrimp or fish, just with two CFLs over it, a Miracle Gro substrate, and no CO2. I top up the water once a week, sometimes change a bit of it. That's about it.


I second low tech dirt tanks! Dont have to clean substrate forever and filter prob will need a cleaning only 6months once. I work 6 days a week so its nice to just sit back after work and relax and do as little tinkering as possible


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## pacogolf888 (Dec 9, 2012)

seems like I'm getting good direction. thank you for your postings



pyrrolin said:


> ... You probably want mostly tetras of some types, they are normally smaller schooling fish.
> 
> Another option for substrate is a mixture, some people use a little red clay in the bottom and then some potting soil topped off with either gravel or sand. I recommend not using sand if using soil, unless you get a very dark sand. I tried soil with sand on top and when I moved plants some soil came up and it just ended up looking bad after a while due to the contrast with light sand and dark soil.
> 
> ...





malajulinka said:


> ... a Miracle Gro substrate, and no CO2...


I'll most likely go with a 20-30G tank. Low tech solution. I don't think I want to deal with pressurized CO2 at this point. I envision my tank to have either a "big" rock as a centre-piece or a few rocks stacked together.

I agree with trying to make it as natural looking as possible. Will go with Miracle Gro substrate and a layer of possibly sand or at least natural gravel or pebbles.

How true is the statement of cleaning twice a year? Is that actually possible?



xriddler said:


> I second low tech dirt tanks! Dont have to clean substrate forever and filter prob will need a cleaning only 6months once. I work 6 days a week so its nice to just sit back after work and relax and do as little tinkering as possible


As for fishes - I'll go with 10 tetras or so and some shrimps. Seems like it's not such a good idea to have betta with tetras.


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## pacogolf888 (Dec 9, 2012)

next question: Canister filter



pyrrolin said:


> You are probably best off getting a canister filter. They cost more at first but they are worth it, much quieter, cheap to maintain and great circulation. Also, if you tank is 30 gallons, make sure the filter is rated for 50 or so gallons. Well worth the couple extra bucks to go over with the filter, but you don't want to go totally nuts and put a 200 gallon filter on a 20 gallon tank


Is there a preferred brand? Any particular model that's proven it's worth?


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## xriddler (Feb 16, 2012)

pacogolf888 said:


> Seems like it's not such a good idea to have betta with tetras.


To house bettas with other fish species is a hit or miss. people have been success and people have not been. As for the miracle grow i would suggest not to go with sand capping. the sand will not allow the the soil to release gases freely and you will have to push and poke it to help release those gases. with gravel they allow the soil to breath more and you do not have to help release the gases that build up underneath. So thats one less thing to do. As for cleaning dont touch the substrate let the cycle run its own course, fish poop is plant nutrients, fish food is plant nutrients that is what keeps the cycle going. Dont make the same mistake i did and pour in tap water and killing all good bacteria on the plants when planting. use aged water so you can cycle your tank faster since there is great bacteria living on the plants and such. Because i planted twice my second batch of plants luckily helped me kick start my nitrogen cycle properly.

As for fishes you can definately get more than 10 tetras. Dont forget you need nitrates for the plants to grow properly. So you have to balance your bioload with a little bit for fish. As others have mentioned to me cardinals do eat baby shrimplets  so i need more hiding spots for them and adding moss is a great hiding spot for them.

As for canister filters you can never go wrong with a eheim. For a 30g a 2215 would be great filtration. Overfiltration is always good  hope this helps


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

I only have experience with one brand of filter, I have a rena xp 3 which is good for up to 175 gallon tank. I do like the rena, very quiet, easy to clean.

cleaning twice a year, yes and no. If you tend to over feed, I still do, then you need to clean the filter more often. It also depends on what fish you have and plants.

Basically a filter needs to be cleaned when the sponges start to get clogged slowing down the flow. The things that build up are fish waste to a small degree, uneaten food and any plant matter that is floating around, plant matter could be a leaf that is dieing and tiny bits fall off and get sucked in, or when fish nibble at the plants and leave crumbs or just little parts of plants break off from fish touching them.

With my rena filter, I need to clean it about every 2 months, I have to give the sponges a good rinse, never clean the bio media if you can help it, if you do, make sure you swish it around in used tank water from a water change sop you don't kill too much bacteria. the last part of my filter is a floss pad which also needs to be rinsed and replaced a few times a year when it gets really bad.

a hang on back, HOB filter will also work perfectly fine but they aren't as quiet. I personally love the aquaclear HOB filters, they have an area where you put in a sponge, then bio media and then you can use either extra bio media or carbon if needed. The sponge and bio media can last you years if taken care of.

Carbon can be good to use, but I believe most of us either don't use it or only use it when we see a need. I only use it when I see a need. Right now I have carbon in one filter and that is because I have a newer piece of driftwood that is stll leaching alot of tannins. Carbon is only good for 30 days or so, then its useless, so it can add up to a fair expense if used all the time.

For lighting, since I get the impression cost isn't much of a factor, I recommend you get a light fixture that holds two t5ho bulbs and just put in 1 bulb for now with low tech and if you ever decide you want to get more advanced, you can toss in another bulb and go high tech. A single t5ho will give you a bit of a range in plant choices, from low light to maybe up to medium light depending on the height of the tank

There are alot of general rules about keeping fish, but remember, they are just general rules, such as 1 gallon per inch of fish, this isnt very accurate. There is also the changing 10 percent of the water each week, again, not very accurate. Another is watts per gallon for lighting, this is also not accurate, the main factor of this is the height of the tank.

The rate that you do water changes depends on the stock level of the tank, how much you feed, plants, lighting. Water changes are mainly to keep nitrates down to a safe level. If you have lots of plants, they will use up some nitrates which decreases water changes. Over feeding increases nitrates. Having high light or c02 makes the plants use more nitrates. I recommend starting with the general rule of 10 percent a week and monitor the nitrate levels, if you see nitrates going higher, change more water. If you see nitrates stay the same and they are good, keep doing the same. If nitrates keep going down, you can do less water changes.

Even if nitrates are 0, you should do a 10 percent or so water change once a month just to make sure they have fresh water. For a while I had a tank stay at 0 nitrates due to the high light and co2.

Make sure you buy a master test kit when you buy your tank, I like the API master test kit. I also recommend keeping a log of all your testing with the reading and dates and when water changes are done and how much. I don't do this myself but I should. For starting out it is highly recommended. If you have trouble getting your tank cycled the first thing we will be asking you is your levels of ammonia, nitrites and nitrates and the history of the levels in some cases.

which reminds me, I should test some of my tanks tomorrow

also if you go with a 20 gallon, I would recommend a 20 gallon long, it is 30 inches long so it gives fish more swimming room. Fish tend to swim at certain heights in the tank depending on the breed and like to swim the length of the tank fairly often.

When you are closer to buying your equipment and have stocking ideas, post here what you are thinking and we can give input on if we think it will meet your needs equipment wise or if the fish choices are good for that size tank and compatibility with each other.

Basically, make a plan, show us the plan, get feedback, redo the plan, feedback and when all is good, go spent alot of money


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## xriddler (Feb 16, 2012)

pyrrolin said:


> cleaning twice a year, yes and no. If you tend to over feed, I still do, then you need to clean the filter more often. It also depends on what fish you have and plants.
> 
> Basically a filter needs to be cleaned when the sponges start to get clogged slowing down the flow. The things that build up are fish waste to a small degree, uneaten food and any plant matter that is floating around, plant matter could be a leaf that is dieing and tiny bits fall off and get sucked in, or when fish nibble at the plants and leave crumbs or just little parts of plants break off from fish touching them.


You can prolong this by putting a prefilter sponge on your intake tube. you just have to clean the prefilter more often and not the filter itself. Also if you get a canister filter get some media bags to hold your bio media makes cleaning it a hell of a lot easier


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## pacogolf888 (Dec 9, 2012)

thanks xriddler and pyrrolin for your suggestions and input.

A little scouting mission to Big Al's on Sunday has yielded 2 options. 

$200 for 20G LED Kit with a Biowheel and cabinet/stand. 

or

$320ish for
20G - 30x12x12
Cabinet/Stand
30" LED Hood*
Fluval 206** or Rena XP1

*spend another $75 to go T5 HO.
**Did not see any Eheim product.


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## pacogolf888 (Dec 9, 2012)

xriddler said:


> To house bettas with other fish species is a hit or miss. people have been success and people have not been.


I'll leave it alone for a while. Tetras will be most likely the primary. Will add mollys and plattys for colour.

I do love those shrimps.



xriddler said:


> As for the miracle grow i would suggest not to go with sand capping. the sand will not allow the the soil to release gases freely and you will have to push and poke it to help release those gases. with gravel they allow the soil to breath more and you do not have to help release the gases that build up underneath. So thats one less thing to do. As for cleaning dont touch the substrate let the cycle run its own course, fish poop is plant nutrients, fish food is plant nutrients that is what keeps the cycle going.


Have been doing more reading regarding miracle gro. Seems like typical setup is an inch of dirt + an inch of gravel. Is that the suggested typical setup?

Not having to touch the substrate would be a big bonus!!!



pyrrolin said:


> I recommend you get a light fixture that holds two t5ho bulbs and just put in 1 bulb for now with low tech and if you ever decide you want to get more advanced, you can toss in another bulb and go high tech. A single t5ho will give you a bit of a range in plant choices, from low light to maybe up to medium light depending on the height of the tank


What about LEDs? Is there enough range or would the proper/preferred setup be T5 HO? The fixture does look cool.


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

I've never actually seen or used a biowheel, but I suspect they require frequent replacement of media

I would spend the extra for the canister filter setup.

You should also try parting everything out instead of a kit and see what you come up with.

I don't know squat about LED compared to regular


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## xriddler (Feb 16, 2012)

Yea i second getting a canister. Yes it is more expensive but in the long run its more beneficial. And if you follow a prefilter intake for the canister there is much less maintainence and money spent for replacing the filter sponges etc. For a biowheel even though it was said that it is one of the best wetdry filtration you do have to swap out the wheels every so often. The Aquaclear and fluval HOBs are one of the best but they also need abit more attention than a canister filter. 

I think i know which set at big als you are talking about and those LEDs are not for growing plants with a tank of that height. from what i have read only the very low light plants do okay with them so your plant choices will be very very minimum. However There are DIY LED systems that are planted tank approved and some LEDs in the market are also for planted tank use but they all come with a hefty price tag for the time being. For a list of these go to plantedtank.net 

I would suggest looking at our classifieds section as there are always great deals here and for a fraction of the price.


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## pacogolf888 (Dec 9, 2012)

friend of mine is going to lend me his Fluval 304. That being said - I'll move up to a 30-40G. Will be posting a WTB ad in a few minutes.



xriddler said:


> ...There are DIY LED systems that are planted tank approved and some LEDs in the market are also for planted tank use but they all come with a hefty price tag for the time being. For a list of these go to plantedtank.net


Thanks for the tip. Spent the last few days researching LEDs. I am planning to have a go at a DIY LED.

Another question: Would it be ok to leave the top of the tank open? Or should I at least have a glass or mesh top?


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

leaving the top open or covered depends on a few things

Some fish are known jumpers and will jump out of the tank if able, in this case cover it.

Uncovered tank can cost more to heat in the winter but can also help keep it cooler in the summer during heat waves if you don't have ac.

Uncovered allows more light from the bulbs which can be good.

Uncovered means more evaporation and more frequent top ups

Uncovered gives other pets like cats more access to the tank, but I have 4 cats and its not an issue for me

Most of my tanks are not covered, this is mostly due to the cost and im starting to get a little annoyed with the evaporation. I don't need to do water changes weekly so its extra work for me and I have many tanks.


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## Fishfur (Mar 4, 2012)

If you have any sort of intake tube in your tank might I suggest you keep it covered with a prefilter of some sort ? 

I just, and please pardon the pun, fished a CPD out of my Aquaclear 70... quite healthy, near as I can tell, and no idea how long it's been in there. Been a week at least since I last looked at the filter at all.
In fact, the CPD would still be in there if I hadn't seen what I thought was a loach swimming up the intake tube just as I finishing feeding. Since I had just put a sponge prefilter on the uptake, I assumed I must have left a hole big enough for a loach to squeeze into.. turned out it must have been an optical illusion.. no sign of a loach in the filter, nor pieces of one, for that matter, so I think he must have been swimming behind it. 

But lo and behold, there was a female CPD in the bottom of the filter. Fish never cease to amaze me. The opportunities for swimming up that tube are pretty minimal.. it used to have a SS prefilter, and it was only open when I cleaned that. Minutes at most. Decided a sponge might not clog as fast, but it's clogging even faster, as it is probably too finely pored for the purpose. I'll have to find a coarser one.

My cats never bother my tanks either. Though they occasionally get interested in watching the shrimp, they don't seem to realize the tank tops are pretty accessible if they only tried. They don't try. Suits me fine !


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## pacogolf888 (Dec 9, 2012)

Fishfur said:


> If you have any sort of intake tube in your tank might I suggest you keep it covered with a prefilter of some sort ?


Thanks for the tip regarding the prefilter. I believe I don't have an option but to have one.


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## pacogolf888 (Dec 9, 2012)

I'm typically impatient. Hopefully, I can learn to be patient.

Here's the plan - hopefully it'll work out.

Fluval 304 is on it's way.

Budget from this point (Feb to July) - $100!

29G - 40G Tank - <$50
Dirt - $0 (2 bags of dirt in the garage)
Capping - ~$30 http://www.bigalspets.com/fish/substrates/super-naturals-blue-ridge-20-lb.html
Test Kit - ~$20 http://www.bigalspets.com/freshwater-master-test-kit.html

Budget from (Aug to Dec) - $100
DIY - LED - ~$50
Stand - $0 (will be slowly over buying materials from Home Depot over the next few months)
150W Heater - ~$20
Plants and fish- ~$30

What else am I missing (aside from patience)?


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## xriddler (Feb 16, 2012)

Budget from this point (Feb to July) - $100!

1) 29G - 40G Tank - <$50 
start checking in the classified section of the forum. there are always some nice deals floating around

2) Dirt - $0 (2 bags of dirt in the garage)
I use mircle gro organic potting soil, its not expensive and this is the recommended and a proven substrate for soil tanks. make sure to grab soil that has no fert additives

3) Capping - ~$30 http://www.bigalspets.com/fish/substrates/super-naturals-blue-ridge-20-lb.html
Depending on your tank footrprint you probably only need one bag

4) Test Kit - ~$20 http://www.bigalspets.com/freshwater-master-test-kit.html
You are on the USA bigals site here is the canadian one and the test kit is $40 http://www.bigalspets.ca/fish/water-testing-equipment/freshwater-master-test-kit.html

Budget from (Aug to Dec) - $100
5) DIY - LED - ~$50 
no comment on this as i have never DIY anything. I am dummy at building things

6) Stand - $0 
see number 5 lol

7) 150W Heater - ~$20
you dont need a heater that wattage for you tank range unless you room is freezing cold. i think 75-100w is sufficient here is a website to help http://freshaquarium.about.com/od/heating/a/heatersizeguide.htm

8) Plants and fish- ~$30
i think you will be presently surprised that its hard to stock your aquarium with 30 dollars. my 48 gallon is already at $80 for plants and $50 for fauna. fish are expensive and so are plants but keep checking the classified forums as there are alot of members trading and giving away plants but only downside you dont get to choose what you want.

other things you can include is, a thermometer, gravel vac (for WC convenience), Driftwood/rocks, planting tweezers, trimming scissors, fishnet, fish foods and a timer for your lighting system. You dont have to grab all this but it does make life much easier.


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

You haven't fed your fish yet, also need dechlorinator for water changes


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## xriddler (Feb 16, 2012)

oh yea and buckets for ageing water!


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## pacogolf888 (Dec 9, 2012)

xriddler said:


> oh yea and buckets for ageing water!





pyrrolin said:


> You haven't fed your fish yet, also need dechlorinator for water changes


Fish food!

If I use a dechlorinator, do I need to age the water? What's the purpose of aging water?


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## xriddler (Feb 16, 2012)

it takes time for the declor to work its magic. even though we see people add dechlor to an established tank and add tap water right away doesnt mean its safe. they are still exposing non dechlorinated water into their system which may or may not harm the fishes. i still prime my bucket of water and let it sit for a few hours before use most of the time i let it sit for at least a day.


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## solarz (Aug 31, 2010)

Sorry I came late to the party, somehow I missed this thread! 

I sort of skimmed through the previous posts, and I have some different recommendations for the OP.

First, let me say that everyone has their own approaches to tanks. Mine is based on my own experience, a 20-gallon planted, a 79-gallon planted, and the first 20-gallon restarted again as another planted tank.

Like the OP, I prefer small, schooling fish to larger fishes, so I feel that we're on the same page in this respect.

First, it's good that you have a definite length of tank in mind. It makes things much easier when recommending a tank.

Second, DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT go with a kit from Big Al's. Speaking from personal experience, it's just not worth it!

Third, I don't recommend buying used tanks. The cost of a tank is not that much compared to everything else you need to buy, but it is arguably the most important component of your aquarium. Leaking tanks are every aquarist's worst nightmare, and I personally believe new tanks give me more peace of mind.

*Tank*

The best sized tank for the OP is the 40-gallon breeder. It's dimensions are 36" x 18" x 16". Like others have said, bigger is better. Bigger tank = less work, more fish.

There is another option here. More expensive, but the tank is absolutely gorgeous. The initial price may sound daunting, but nobody I know, including myself, has ever regretted spending the extra money. The difference in aesthetics is truly astounding.

I know, I know, starting out, you are probably reluctant on putting down that much money right away. Still, I highly recommend visiting that store and see the effect for yourself. (It's located at Kennedy & Steeles.)

*Substrate*

I like it that the OP is going for a dirt tank. It's my favorite setup for any planted tank! There are a few things to consider, though:

1- What kind of dirt do you have in your garage? Is it clay-like or dark and rich? Contrary to gardening, you DON'T want rich organic soil in your tank. The best dirt substrate is a clay-like soil with as little organic content as possible.

2- Sand is better than gravel. Period. Don't be scared off by people who say sand will muddy your water and get into your filter. It will do so, but only for the first few days. Then it will settle and even stirring it will not cause any cloudiness for long. You do need to be a bit more careful when pouring water in, but the upside is that shrimps, cories, and rooted plants all love sand much more than gravel.

You basically have 2 choices to make for sand substrate: dark or light. If you prefer the look of a dark substrate, Tahitian Moon Sand is a great choice. If you want a light substrate, I am currently using a fine sand I found in a landscaping center. Very cheap, and looks great. You can see the effect here:

http://gtaaquaria.com/forum/showthread.php?t=36822

*Filters*

Personally, I don't think you need to spend much money on a filter. A cheap HOB will work just fine. A canister filter looks less cluttered, but I would recommend it only if you go with the starfire rimless tank. A normal, black rimmed BA tank will look just fine with an HOB. I recommend putting a pre-filter sponge on your HOB intake: it saves shrimps and small fish from being sucked in, and greatly reduces the need to clean the impeller.

*Lighting*

This is the most important aspect of a planted tank. I would not go LED, as it's unnecessarily expensive. Even with DIY, I highly doubt you will be able to get a good light for under 50$. The best choice for planted tanks, IMO, is still the T5HO.

With this light, you'll be able to grow pretty much anything.

*Fishes*

You said you wanted small, schooling fish, right? So don't go with livebearers like guppies and platies. Instead, go with cories, cardinal tetras, harlequin rasboras, golden white clouds, otos, and rummynose tetras.

By keeping your fishes small, and once you get some decent plant cover, you can also start a colony of cherry shrimps. Most people go with red cherries, but there's no reason you can't go with yellow ones. Just don't mix the two!


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## pyrrolin (Jan 11, 2012)

live bearers don't really school, not like tetras. My mollies see me and come over to that side of the tank and beg for food, even if I just fed them.


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## pacogolf888 (Dec 9, 2012)

solarz said:


> The best sized tank for the OP is the 40-gallon breeder. It's dimensions are 36" x 18" x 16". Like others have said, bigger is better. Bigger tank = less work, more fish.


Thanks for the direction.

I've agreed to buy a used 40G tank, canopy (lid & light) and stand from a member. A friend of mine is loaning me his canister filter indefinitely. At least those 2 pieces are settled.

I seriously can't wait. Growing impatient as each day passes.



solarz said:


> I like it that the OP is going for a dirt tank. It's my favorite setup for any planted tank! There are a few things to consider, though:
> 
> 1- What kind of dirt do you have in your garage? Is it clay-like or dark and rich? Contrary to gardening, you DON'T want rich organic soil in your tank. The best dirt substrate is a clay-like soil with as little organic content as possible.
> 
> ...


I've got 1/4 bag of top soil and 1/4 bag of Miracle Gro potting soil. Was going to buy another bag of top soil.

I personally like natural looking substrate. I was actually thinking of capping with 2/3 "natural" gravel and 1/3 light coloured sand. Did you get playground sand or something coarser?

I will definitely have a whole bunch of tetras, shrimps and a few orange sword fishes in the tank. Guppies are optional for now.


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