# Substrate question- black sand at Menagerie



## ShrimpieLove (Apr 26, 2010)

Hi everyone! 
I saw some black sand at Menagerie(1$ per lb and it is in one of their barrels where the loose gravel/sand is kept, it has a bit of shine to it also-they have the same sand in all of their fish tanks there) and was contemplating changing my natural gravel to this so it would be better for My cory cats. I chose gravel at first because i wanted something simple that wouldnt alter the tank ph etc. 
So My questions are :
-will this black sand change any of my tanks ph or ANY other parameters? Or is it as simple as normal gravel? 
-how would I change the gravel best so not to disturb the good bacteria and plants? Maybe change half the tanks gravel at a time? Any suggestions? 
-any other pros/cons to using black sand?


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## Joeee (Apr 3, 2010)

I also have a few questions about black sand:

1. How do I clean it, like will it get stuck in my siphon?
2. How do I clean it to put it inside the tank? I usually use a colander for gravel but the holes are too big.


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## ShrimpieLove (Apr 26, 2010)

Good questions... I have a gravel siphon too...
To clean my gravel initially before i put it in my tank i usually use a bigggg bowl and run hot water thru it while digging into it and stirring until my water runs clear...was gonna try that for the sand

any suggestions/info on both our posts?


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

To clean sand before you put it into your aquarium, it is much like gravel. Just rinse in a big bucket, until the water runs clear. You may need to adjust the water flow a little, since sand is quite a bit lighter, and you may lose a lot if you just let the water run freely.

As for cleaning it during your regular water changes, I hover my siphon near the sand, so that detritus and other lighter debris is sucked up, while the sand stays. If you fall asleep for even a second, you'll start to get sand in your siphon and it will go into your bucket/sink.


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## ShrimpieLove (Apr 26, 2010)

Do you know any of this info by chance? 
-will this black sand change any of my tanks ph or ANY other parameters? Or is it as simple as normal gravel? 
-how would I change the gravel (my old gravel to new black sand)best so not to disturb the good bacteria and plants? Maybe change half the tanks gravel at a time? Any suggestions?


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

I do not know the answer to the first question; your best bet would be to ask someone at Menagerie.

As for changing the current gravel to the sand that you will (presumably) buy, it will be impossible to not disturb the plants. You will need to take out the water (save about 50%), then uproot all the plants (and of course, the fish). Take out all the gravel, and replace with all the sand. Replant. Take the 50% of the "old" water that you saved and place it back into the tank. Fill the remainder with treated tap water.

This process will be like a large water change for your fish.

While the substrate does contain beneficial bacteria, their amounts are not as significant as the ones in your filter, especially if you have a canister filter.


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## Joeee (Apr 3, 2010)

Update:

I spoke to someone at Menagerie and they said that the sand will not change pH. 

It is also impossible not to disturb the bacteria and plants. However, there is a lot of good bacteria is inside your filter, so what I would do it take out a certain percent of gravel at a time, like say 20-30% every 3 days or so. I think I've also heard that it's not a good idea to have plants in sand because it is easier for them to get uprooted or something. But what you could do is a sand and gravel mix. But you might have problems cleaning the substrate like this, the gravel might also go to the top when you try to clean the substrate.


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## BettaBeats (Jan 14, 2010)

it is black sandblasting slag and is pretty sharp/abrasive. I'm not sure you'd want to use it for bottom sand-sifters. 

Also, I have found this isn't the best to use with plant. Maybe as a top layer over gravel, but it is hard to plant anything in it as the sand compacts and slows root growth. 

It looks good, but I wish I went with something a little different.

also, even after yous rinse it, it can still have a lot of dust. I polished my water with filter floss in the filter for a week or two.


does not change pH.


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

I use the black sand as well.

I can confirm it does not change the pH.

Also, the sand is so fine that is it fine for cory's, or any other sand sifter. I wouldn't call it abrasive.

I didn't rinse my sand before adding it. The worst part was that some pieces float (but sink eventually - they just have small bubbles attached to them!). Aside from that, no dust or murkiness.

I use it in conjunction with sponge filters, I would be somewhat wary if using a HOB in regards to having sand enter into the impeller.


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## Joeee (Apr 3, 2010)

Chris S said:


> I use the black sand as well.
> 
> I can confirm it does not change the pH.
> 
> ...


Just a rumour that I've heard, is that some types of sand have phosphate in them so we're suppose to soak it in water for about 7 days. I'm not sure if this is applicable to the Menagerie sand.


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

I can't confirm if the sand has any phosphates - I never tested for them after introducing it. I would suggest asking Harold at Menagerie.


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## ShrimpieLove (Apr 26, 2010)

oh thank you for all the information! PH question solved  
I didnt think of the sand getting into My Aquaclear till now lol I have sponges over the intake tubes but not sure that would keep sand out of there or not ...


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## tom g (Jul 8, 2009)

*gravel*

i was at finatics today and saw several bags of black -shot , bell and mackenzie 25 kg bags i am assuming thats what he is using in his tanks


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## BillD (Jun 5, 2006)

That is the brand I have. It is supposed to be clean, but is very dusty. I passed it back and forth from one bucket to another in a breeze to allow the dust to blow away. This helped reduce the cleaning time. Unfortuneately they don't have a web site, because they have garnet sand listed, which would be a reddish colour. I'm using #20, but would like to try the #12.


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## BettaBeats (Jan 14, 2010)

I loved the look of the black slag, but I am most definitely switching to gravel. My plants will thank me (the few I have left)


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## fish_luva (Nov 24, 2009)

BettaBeats said:


> I loved the look of the black slag, but I am most definitely switching to gravel. My plants will thank me (the few I have left)


Soo i'm assuming your plants did not do well in it?


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## ShrimpieLove (Apr 26, 2010)

Maybe it would be easier to put black large pebbles ontop of my gravel to make it more black for the cherry shrimp  
Plants dont like the black sand?


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## BettaBeats (Jan 14, 2010)

GuppyLove said:


> Maybe it would be easier to put black large pebbles ontop of my gravel to make it more black for the cherry shrimp
> Plants dont like the black sand?


I am not sure what it is.. but I seem to have stunted growth.

I went to Menagerie and the weekday guy said MY problem, was most probably because of the algae I needed for the stiphodon gobies I had. The plants arent getting enough light (my bulbs might be old too) and the plants just arent able to photosynthesize. Its true, everything in the tank is covered in algae.

My anubias does extremely well. I'm trying a new batch of plants and better maintenance of algae.

Mixed with laterite, the sand isn't that bad. It is a really neat look. I just need to siphon it more so it doesn't compact. It is also harder (not impossible) to plant things like marsilea crenata, and stem plants, because the sand is so fine. I'm going to try using more plant weights and see how things grow.


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## BeerBaron (Sep 4, 2009)

BettaBeats said:


> I am not sure what it is.. but I seem to have stunted growth.
> 
> I went to Menagerie and the weekday guy said MY problem, was most probably because of the algae I needed for the stiphodon gobies I had. The plants arent getting enough light (my bulbs might be old too) and the plants just arent able to photosynthesize. Its true, everything in the tank is covered in algae.
> 
> ...


I actually have it mixed in with Flourite in my tanks at home and i find it works MUCH better that way. The black sand does create dense spots through out the bedding over time which is one of the reasons I like mixing in some Flourite.

The black sand is great to use as a filler to create the different scapes or depth that you're looking for and it's just so darn purdy.

P.s I'm the "weekday guy" also known as Matt


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## BettaBeats (Jan 14, 2010)

BeerBaron said:


> I actually have it mixed in with Flourite in my tanks at home and i find it works MUCH better that way. The black sand does create dense spots through out the bedding over time which is one of the reasons I like mixing in some Flourite.
> 
> The black sand is great to use as a filler to create the different scapes or depth that you're looking for and it's just so darn purdy.
> 
> P.s I'm the "weekday guy" also known as Matt


Thanks for the tip. I have some laterite, although not much. I really want to try flourite. I guess I just have to pull out the towels and put a bit more work into the tank. I just had one of my dwarf gouramis die, not sure if it was stress or what... but I only had him for 48 hours. I have no idea why this tank is so hard to maintain life.  

Also, you should get a twitter for the shop. I know it gets busy for the fish lists, but a tweet about a new shipment is quick and easy. just a thought.


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## BeerBaron (Sep 4, 2009)

BettaBeats said:


> Thanks for the tip. I have some laterite, although not much. I really want to try flourite. I guess I just have to pull out the towels and put a bit more work into the tank. I just had one of my dwarf gouramis die, not sure if it was stress or what... but I only had him for 48 hours. I have no idea why this tank is so hard to maintain life.
> 
> Also, you should get a twitter for the shop. I know it gets busy for the fish lists, but a tweet about a new shipment is quick and easy. just a thought.


Funny you bring up the Twitter idea. I use it myself everyday for several reasons and was actually thinking about that a couple days ago.Ulitmately it's not my decision but I think it would be a quick way to let people know what's going on with us on a daily basis. Not even just in the fish department but birds, reptiles, dog&cat supplies etc.... Definitely something to think about, I'd love to do it.

About the gourami, are the water parameters in check? They've been in great shape in the store. We haven't lost one. What was the process of acclimating them?


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