# What is the point of a sump ?



## videosilva (Oct 14, 2013)

I have been thinking about sumps and am unable to see the pros of using a sump. Basically instead of running say a 100 gallon tank you are running 2 50 gallon tanks. A pump is used to move water from one tank to another ? 

So If one tank gets infected both become infected. 

 So why not have just one tank or have two separate tanks. If you ran two tanks the odds would be in your favor of both becoming unstable.

Not to mention the added expense of a " hidden " tank.


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## fury165 (Aug 21, 2010)

I don't know about you but I don't want to see equipment anywhere in my display or hanging off the back of the aquarium - all heaters, reactors, pumps, Skimmer, dosing pumps, tubing, ATO Are in the sump. Not to mention the extra live rock, Cheato and misbehaving snails, crabs and inverts.
A sump also provides you with a means of doing water changes without disturbing the DT, another big plus IMHO.


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## aquatic_expressions (Mar 17, 2006)

Sumps have many advantages and way more pros then cons.

They provide a larger volume of water, which in turn provide a more stable aquarium overall.

They allow you to hide most of your equipment as stated before

They allow more filtration then other types of filters

They provide superior gas exchange.

The only con I can see is cost and water evaporation.

A sump is not needed for a successful reef but it does make things a lot easier.


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## Flexin5 (Nov 12, 2011)

fury165 said:


> I don't know about you but I don't want to see equipment anywhere in my display or hanging off the back of the aquarium - all heaters, reactors, pumps, Skimmer, dosing pumps, tubing, ATO Are in the sump. Not to mention the extra live rock, Cheato and misbehaving snails, crabs and inverts.
> A sump also provides you with a means of doing water changes without disturbing the DT, another big plus IMHO.


+1. i hate the look of equipment in the display.


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Lets you hide all this crap:


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## fury165 (Aug 21, 2010)

ameekplec. said:


> Lets you hide all this crap:


Exactly!


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## notclear (Nov 5, 2011)

Look at the picture in my signature. I know it is not too birght, but basically you can't see any equipment, pumps, wires, etc.


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

if you read carefully what he says, you will see that he did not ask your opinion about sump

It is just a statement that we are idiots for having it 

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## advanced reef aquatics (Apr 20, 2009)

Surface skimming!!
majority of nutrients rise to the surface of water, with a sump you are skimming water from top via overflow, right into your sump to be skimmed. far more efficient than HOB skimmer, you also get a way better in sump skimmer for what you will pay for HOB.
plus what other members have pointed out.


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## Flameangel (Sep 25, 2013)

For me ,having a sump is an added water with the whole system kind of help with water parameter stabilization not to mention place to put your pumps,UV Sterilizer,etc.


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## DamFish (Feb 9, 2012)

ameekplec. said:


> Lets you hide all this crap:


And you have some of the nicest and most well organized "crap"


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

he does not have luxury/volume of the house as we do  and must be organized.

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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

sig said:


> he does not have luxury/volume of the house as we do  and must be organized.


Like Sig said - I live in a small condo. A 100g tank is a lot of space to lose 



DamFish said:


> And you have some of the nicest and most well organized "crap"


It looked way nicer during the build:









To get back to OP, it's not really a hidden tank - it's more like an equipment closet where you get to hide all the nitty gritty of tank operation and you get a nice clean display tank without tons of wires coming out, things hanging off the sides and back, etc etc.

Also, some reefers live for the equipment porn.


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## Y2KGT (Jul 20, 2009)

sig said:


> if you read carefully what he says, you will see that he did not ask your opinion about sump
> 
> It is just a statement that we are idiots for having it


I agree with Greg. 
--
Paul


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

Y2KGT said:


> I agree with Greg.
> --
> Paul


we have good expression in Russian, but I will avoid to post it 

On the other side, Eric finally posted his sump, which is well organized.

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## Bayinaung (Feb 24, 2012)

if you're going to have that huge of a tank you do need a sump for all the equipment especially the in-sump protein skimmer (not many good HOBs out there). If it's a nano with low bioload you can get away without having one.


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## videosilva (Oct 14, 2013)

*Here we GO !!!!!!!*

From reading most posts it is for cosmetic reasons and hard core fish heads.


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## deeznutz (Aug 21, 2013)

A sump is the only way to go when doing a fish tank, weather it's salt or fresh.

Sumps keep your water level in the display tank constant. Evaporated water shows in your sump. Topping up a sump with fresh water is alot easier as well. Not to mention water changes. 

If you want to go sumpless, by all means go ahead. But it will be the biggest first mistake you make in reef keeping.

There are no cons with a sump and only pros. If you think the extra money to set up a sump is a con, you should avoid reefkeeping altogether. Reef keeping is not exactly a cheap hobby especially if you are going 100g+

I can't think of one pro going sumpless. Can you name one? Do it right the first time around. You'll thank us later.

-deez


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## videosilva (Oct 14, 2013)

*Anti Sump*

Ok, negatives of a sump.

1. Water spill on my hard wood floors.
2. Added Expenses.
3. " HIDDEN TANK " ?
4. Better to have 2 separate independent tanks in
case of infection.
5. More clutter
6. One tank spilling into another ?

That was six I will post more 

I am not trying to say that sumps are a bad idea or not to have one. I only see the cons versus the pros.


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

I think maybe you're thinking of it as "a second tank" as opposed to an accessory tank like most others do. A sump isn't a second display tank, it's utility is entirely in that it's not meant to be displayed. It's to house all the stuff that you wouldn't otherwise want dangling or handing in and around the main display tank. If I wanted a second display tank, I could always run it off the same sump system, and bam, you've got an extra tank without having to buy another filter, dosing pump, heater, etc etc. 

Obviously, you're anti-sump for whatever reason, but I can guarantee you that it's the way to go. Even if you're running a small tank, a sump is a great piece of equipment to be able to use.


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## videosilva (Oct 14, 2013)

*Cosmetics*

Ok, I keep reading mainly for cosmetic reasons and that makes sense.

I have had fresh water tanks for a LOOOOOOOOONG time salt is a relatively new beast.

With the VERY recent www boom it is now very easy to find information and dismiss non factual information.

I had always believed that a sump and various other high end expensive hardware was essential for a saltwater environment. But have recently come to the conclusion that by just adding salt to a fresh water tank it is then a marine environment.

The reason I went marine was for my green spotted puffers and all I did was remove all the items from my tank minus the water and fish and add salt.

And then I wanted moreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee ugh.


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Well, a lot of FW systems employ sumps as well. I just find that the SW crew has a lot more gadgets hiding under that cabinet than 90% of the FW guys setups I have seen.

As much as it is cosmetic, it's functional too. You can't really run a 24" tall skimmer with a 12" x 12" footprint in your display tank. it's not really practical to have all your wavemakers AND a pump to feed your media reactors, and maybe even a manifold that feeds multiple items. But if you have a sump, it's no big deal to drop in a heater, a temp probe, a pH probe, a salinity/conductivity probe, dosing tubes (calcium, alkalinity, magnesium, VSV, etc etc), have a pump to feed your refugium, your media reactor(s)......

Even with a small system, I wish I had a sump. I've got a 20g qt/frag tank going and it kills me that I don't have it set up for a sump....


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## deeznutz (Aug 21, 2013)

videosilva said:


> Ok, negatives of a sump.
> 
> 1. Water spill on my hard wood floors.
> 2. Added Expenses.
> ...


1- Why would water spill onto your hardwood floors? I've had tanks running for 8 years without incident. Set up properly, sumps are fool proof. 
Do your research!

2- This is not a con. It's part of a properly set up system. 

3- What do you mean about a hidden tank. It's a sump. It's purpose is to hold water. Not a display tank. 

4- What infection do you speak of? You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. You talk about extra cost of adding a single sump to one system. Now you want two separate tanks, with two skimmers, two heater, two light fixtures, double the amount of power heads, two tanks to do water changes, two tank to top off water. Double the amount of live rock. Shall I continue?


5- More clutter The whole point of a sump is to have less clutter and have it concealed into a common area. Most people decide to put it directly under the tank. While others, like myself have a dedicated fish room in another room such as a basement. 

6- One tank spilling into another is not a "con". It's a pro! When the water overflows into an overflow box, surface skimming occurs. This is "DESIRABLE"
nothing kills the look of a tank more then surface scum.









Ok, that was fun. What else you got? As none of those points you mention was a con. You must be a newbie

-dan


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## Mikeylikes (Nov 22, 2013)

he is clearly not getting it and whatever he is researching he isn't doing enough of it !!


Videosilva: if you were in FW for a loooonnnng time as you proclaim, you will know that sumps are also deployed in FW set ups as well. NOT just marine. That said other members have already listed the numerous pro's of having one so I won't sound like a broken record.

Keep on reading and good luck on your venture into the SW world.


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## rickcasa (Dec 7, 2011)

A sump is the garage/furnace room/closet/tool shed to a house, all combined. It's where we keep the lawnmower, snowblower, rakes, furnace, central vac, winter tires, garden hose, garbage can, recycling bin, etc, etc, etc. I know I wouldn't want these things in my living room. A sump is not a second house.


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## deeznutz (Aug 21, 2013)

rickcasa said:


> A sump is the garage/furnace room/closet/tool shed to a house, all combined. It's where we keep the lawnmower, snowblower, rakes, furnace, central vac, winter tires, garden hose, garbage can, recycling bin, etc, etc, etc. I know I wouldn't want these things in my living room. A sump is not a second house.


Yes!!!!
that's awesome!


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## videosilva (Oct 14, 2013)

*Ass up in the air*

I am getting too old to have my ass up in the air while playing in a confined space. Thanks but not for me.

If a sump were mandatory to keeping fish I would not have fish


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## sig (Dec 13, 2010)

videosilva said:


> I am getting too old to have my ass up in the air while playing in a confined space. Thanks but not for me.
> 
> If a sump were mandatory to keeping fish I would not have fish


Thank you all of you who spent time trying to explain to this guy, why sump is beneficial. 

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## videosilva (Oct 14, 2013)

*?*



sig said:


> Thank you all of you who spent time trying to explain to this guy, why sump is beneficial.


 I asked the question and got my answer.

I did not read ONE person say that your fish will die if not using a sump


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## deeznutz (Aug 21, 2013)

I think I'm done here.

Good luck


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## Mikeylikes (Nov 22, 2013)

some people just don't get it. oh well .. to each his own.


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## badmedicine (Oct 27, 2012)

You do not NEED to have a sump. Just like you don' t NEED at least one heater in your tank (as long as you keep your house temp a constant 80 degrees). Some people get along without having a sump, and do well at it. Some people use canister filters to run their saltwater tank (especially if you only have fish-no coral).

I think that the general mindset of the people on this forum want to have the BEST/most efficient marine environment as possible. As you can guess, people believe that having a sump makes this it better- not that it can't be done any other way. If you are starting into salt water, it is expensive and sometimes we want to cut corners at first.

There are a few people that have tried starting a system with a canister filter, but I think that eventually most people realize that having a sump is the way to go. 



People are offering sage advice on this point.


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## Kweli (Jun 2, 2010)

I think your whole grasp of a sump is incorrect... Additionally, you are not reading (and thinking) about what people are telling you.

A sump isnt for 'infection' control; You need to consider it as one system. *It is an extension of your tank* for the purpose of easy maintenance and aesthetics.... NOT to be considered a 'backup' incase of failure or disaster.

Additionally, why would you think that you need to reduce the size of your display tank because you have a sump? If you have room for 100G tank then get one, and put the biggest sump under it that you can fit. More water = less fluctuations


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## Dax (Sep 29, 2010)

*The Great Sump debate*

I don't have a sump and my system (120 gal) is fine but I would have installed one if I could without having to modify my stand. All I have are 2 heaters, 2 power heads, a HOB skimmer and lights. If I had a sump I wouldn't have to worry about clutter and could try a bunch of other stuff like reactors, a refugium, place to put media like carbon, GFO, etc. The only thing I would worry about is a higher potential for flooding.

If you don't see the need for a sump, my advice is not to worry about it BUT make sure you have the capability of adding one. This way if you find that you need a place to put "stuff", it would be easy to plumb one in without affecting anythong in the tank.


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## des (Jul 30, 2011)

I think for someone who has never used a sump (like me) find it intimidating. At first glance, it appears to be a nest/network of gadgets pumping, valves, chambers, wires etc. Almost no two sumps look alike when you compare which make them custom built. You soon learn that it's like the mechanical/electrical room of your display tank. Take the time to zoom in to each section and device, you learn the beauty of it all.

I don't think I would ever build one on my own from scratch but I certainly would want one to keep my DT looking tidy!


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