# Can anyone figure this out?



## qwerty (Dec 15, 2009)

I think I have an enchanted aquarium... It will never cycle... I've done fishless cycles successfully before, so I'm not completely new to this, but this is the first time I've ever encountered such a problem...

I started cycling with 4.0ppm ammonia at 80F... After a couple days the water began getting very cloudy...

After two weeks the ammonia hadn't dropped at all, and I had not picked up ANY nitrite readings in these two weeks, but the water was starting to clear up... So I dropped the ammonia down to 2.0ppm for a week or so, and then dropped it down to 1.0ppm when still no signs of progress...

It had been over a month and nothing had happened, so I got tired of waiting and went to get some used media that was already colonized... Few days have passed and my ammonia is still at 1.0ppm... Exactly where it had been when I put the used media in my filter, except the water is crystal clear now...

Does this just happen with Toronto tap water sometimes? I really can't think of anything that I've done wrong that would be causing this... The used media SHOULD have done something...

I'm using API liquid tests. Yes, I am using them correctly and rinsing the tubes out properly.

I have checked my nitrate readings, and it tests at the same level as my tap water, so no, my cycle has not completed without my noticing. My ammonia is not dropping, and adding used media doesn't seem to make any difference... My only thought is maybe when I was setting this cycle up I forgot to use dechlor, but that would be the first time I've EVER forgotten to use dechlor and seems unlikely (but you never know I guess)... Any ideas? This is pretty frustrating.


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

How old are your test kits?


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## qwerty (Dec 15, 2009)

Got'em about a year ago... I don't think they would have expired in that time though, do you?


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## thename123 (Dec 13, 2009)

Thats really wierd, whats the ph and hardness of your water? if those levels are extremely off "normal" water your water may have killed most of the bacteria in your water and thus hindering it's ability to colonize. :S


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## gucci17 (Oct 11, 2007)

I would just pick up a new ammonia test kit. 

If that doesn't work...you can always try some hardy plants.


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

Are you testing your nitrites too? If so, what do they test?

What kind of filter are you using?


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## qwerty (Dec 15, 2009)

I have 0 nitrites. I never had ANY nitrites. Likewise I have no nitrates, so I did not miss the nitrite spike somehow...

I am using an AC 70 and an AC 20 both set up on a 10gal (this is just a temporary set up to get them both cycled).

Gucci... Something tells me plants are not the solution. If seeded media doesn't colonize my filters, I think something isn't working as it should and putting living stuff in the water is not going to help matters...

My hardness measures 5dKH, 9dGH... Little on the hard side, but I've still got the journal from my last aquarium and my tap water is exactly the same now as it was then.


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## Big Ray (Dec 8, 2009)

how are you adding ammonia ? I dont understand that part. 
are u doing water changes ? 
what is the PH ? 

what is in the tank and what is in the filters ?


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## qwerty (Dec 15, 2009)

My water Ph is 7.4 water is 80F.

The tank has nothing but a gravel substrate in it, along with a heater and a thermometer. 10 gal tank...

The filters are AquaClears with the sponge and biobag media (don't need/want the carbon, thank you).

I do not have an air pump to use for cycling, so I left the tank and the filters open-topped for the duration of the cycling process...

I'm using pure liquid ammonia. Old Country brand to be exact... A brand which I've used successfully in the past... Actually it's the exact same bottle I used successfully last time...

Since there's nothing alive in the aquarium and no organic waste there's no reason to do water changes, so I just top up the water daily.


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## blackninja (Dec 3, 2009)

If you are using 100% pure ammonia to cycle your tank are you following the steps below. The ammonia has to peak before you start seeing nitrites. If you did not use de-chlorinated water during the cycling stage you probably destroyed the bacteria and have to start again. If I missed something let me know.

Using a dropper, add 5 drops of ammonia per 10 gallons of aquarium water. If you don't get an ammonia reading with your test kit, add some more drops until you start to see an ammonia reading. Keep track of how many drops you've used so you can repeat this process daily. Continue to dose the tank with ammonia until you start to get nitrite readings with your test kit. Once you can detect nitrites you should only add 3 drops of ammonia per 10 gallons of aquarium water, or if you added more drops originally to get an ammonia reading cut the amount of drops used in half. Continue this process daily until you get nitrate readings with your test kit. Do a 30% water change and your tank is ready.


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## qwerty (Dec 15, 2009)

Yup... Brought my ammonia to 4.0ppm and waited for it to drop, expecting to see nitrites, but that never happened, so I lowered it to 2.0ppm to see if that made any difference, then lowered it again to 1.0ppm... Most problems seem to happen when people use too much ammonia or misread tests so I figured lowering the ammonia would be the best solution to try first, but I had no success with that.

Even if I did accidentally forget dechlorinator, usually when people forget dechlor, their tank goes through a minicycle, it doesn't just nuke everything... You'd still think the seeding media would have had some effect...

All that asside... There was one suggestion that was given to me... Apparently the synthesized ammonia is a little different than organically produced ammonia, and so the bacteria takes a little more time to adjust to this source of ammonia. I was advised to wait on it for another 4 days or so... Seems a little iffy to me, but I'm willing to have faith in this advice...


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

Just buy like 10 bucks worth of hygrophilia, plop them in the tank, then add fish. Voila, cycled tank.


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## blackninja (Dec 3, 2009)

qwerty said:


> Yup... Brought my ammonia to 4.0ppm and waited for it to drop, expecting to see nitrites, but that never happened, so I lowered it to 2.0ppm to see if that made any difference, then lowered it again to 1.0ppm... Most problems seem to happen when people use too much ammonia or misread tests so I figured lowering the ammonia would be the best solution to try first, but I had no success with that.
> 
> Even if I did accidentally forget dechlorinator, usually when people forget dechlor, their tank goes through a minicycle, it doesn't just nuke everything... You'd still think the seeding media would have had some effect...
> 
> All that asside... There was one suggestion that was given to me... Apparently the synthesized ammonia is a little different than organically produced ammonia, and so the bacteria takes a little more time to adjust to this source of ammonia. I was advised to wait on it for another 4 days or so... Seems a little iffy to me, but I'm willing to have faith in this advice...


Artificially dropping the ammonia is similar to doing a water change. You have to let the ammonia spike and the nitrite will follow. You need the high ammonia to kick in the bacteria or not enough is created to convert it to nitrite. Let me know what works.


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## qwerty (Dec 15, 2009)

If the bacteria isn't colonizing when it should be, I don't think putting fish in it is a good idea...

Silent filtration is great, but it's not going to do much if there's something wrong and the bacteria wont colonize...


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## blackninja (Dec 3, 2009)

You can try another method to create ammonia.

Use a small piece of raw fish or a raw shrimp
Drop a 2 inch by 1 inch chunk of raw fish or a raw shrimp into the tank. As it decomposes it will release ammonia into the tank.


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

qwerty said:


> If the bacteria isn't colonizing when it should be, I don't think putting fish in it is a good idea...
> 
> Silent filtration is great, but it's not going to do much if there's something wrong and the bacteria wont colonize...


The laws of nature still exist, even in this anomally of an aquarium!


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## qwerty (Dec 15, 2009)

Nvm... I've got a plan...


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## bae (May 11, 2007)

qwerty said:


> All that asside... There was one suggestion that was given to me... Apparently the synthesized ammonia is a little different than organically produced ammonia, and so the bacteria takes a little more time to adjust to this source of ammonia. I was advised to wait on it for another 4 days or so... Seems a little iffy to me, but I'm willing to have faith in this advice...


Well, ammonia is ammonia, NH3, whether it's left over from the origin of the solar system or just now synthesized and excreted by a fish.

That said, ammonia for cleaning, the kind you buy in a store, often has stuff added to it, like detergents, scents and other materials. But you've said that what you're added is pure ammonia in water, with no additives, from the same bottle that you've used successfully before. I don't suppose that anyone else in the house might have poured the remains of another bottle of the kind with additives into this one, maybe to save space under the sink? No little kids in the house trying to be helpful? Any possibility there's something toxic in your gravel?

This is really mysterious, if your test kit is working correctly. You can test your kit on fresh tap water, and on water from a cycled tank. This daily topping up shouldn't add enough chlorine or chloramine to kill bacteria, but you could use water from a healthy tank instead of tap water. Better yet, gravel vac your good tanks and dump the sludge in this one.

Keep us informed.


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## bluekrissyspikes (Apr 16, 2009)

if you aren't 100% sure you declorinated why not do it again? it won't hurt.


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## Chris S (Dec 19, 2007)

qwerty said:


> I don't understand the meaning of your "laws of nature" reference. I'm not saying your method of cycling doesn't work, I'm saying I have little reason to suspect that it will fix whatever's keeping the bacteria from establishing itself in my filter... In which case whatever's preventing the bacteria from surviving may very well just kill the plants and the fish as well... So you see why I don't want to put fish in right now...


If that is the case, why not strip the tank down, give it and the filter and anything else in it (I'd suggest tossing any gravel at that point) a good clean and start from scratch.

As for the laws of nature comment - either the method I suggested should work (and I suggest it over any fishless cycle) or you, or someone else, have inadvertently done why bae suggested, which is to have added some sort of chemical or toxin to the water. There aren't really any complex biological anomalies that could be taking place beyond what you are aware of, namely the nitrogen cycle.


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## qwerty (Dec 15, 2009)

> I don't suppose that anyone else in the house might have poured the remains of another bottle of the kind with additives into this one, maybe to save space under the sink? No little kids in the house trying to be helpful?


You know... I wouldn't be surprised if that was it...


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## ameekplec. (May 1, 2008)

Like Chris suggested, just do a soft cycle. Plants, old media, give it a few days, and you're ready. Has worked everytime I've set up a tank.


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