# ADA AS AMAZONIA II in toronto?



## XbrandonX (Nov 22, 2007)

Hey where do I find this stuff in Toronto? I need enough for my 90G...

Or Eco Complete if the ada is completely impossible... 

Menagerie is special order only for EC and it works out to a little over 40 a bag 

So I may as well go ADA if I can find it..

Brandon.


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## KnaveTO (May 13, 2007)

There is only one distributor in Canada for ADA products and he is in BC.

Harold was saying he has a large order of Flourite Black comming in next week.


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## XbrandonX (Nov 22, 2007)

is there any contact info on that BC guy?


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## hojimoe (Mar 7, 2008)

you can price match eco with mops @ big als...

just ahve to work in the shipping/freight


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## Earro (Apr 27, 2008)

Hey Brandon

Unfortunately the only ADA product distributor in Canada is in BC.

Golden Top Ent.
#101, 9780 197B Street
Langley, B.C. CANADA V1M 3G3
TEL: +1-604-628-1585
FAX: +1-604-628-1586

email: [email protected]

The person that helped me was Eugene.

If you are interested in ordering, you should give him a call instead of email. He will take awhile to get back to you if you email him. I wouldn't recommend ordering from the US, unless you have the cash to pay for shipping.

I've ordered from Golden Top Ent around March 2008. I asked if they carried Amazonia II but it wasn't in stalk yet. I ended up ordering *2x 9L bags of Amazonia Normal.* With shipping it came up to about $120 and it took....I think it took about 4-5 days to get to my doorstep. (I live in Brampton On.)

Hope that helps.

Cheers,
Earro.


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## XbrandonX (Nov 22, 2007)

Hey Earo,

I heard the AS normal takes a long time to cycle before you can introduce plants or fish.. True or false?

What are your experiences working with it like?

Thanks for the contact info, much appreciated.


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## Earro (Apr 27, 2008)

Well, currently I'm setting up a 20 gallon tall Iwagumi style tank. (First attempt)

I'm using the...I guess I can call it the Tom Barr method of growing carpet plants. You can check out the article here:

http://www.barrreport.com/articles/3361-new-methoid-make-nice-rug-hc-before-you-add-water.html

If you are growing carpet plants, and have the patience, I would highly recommend this method. I bought one pot of HC at BigAls to start up my 20g and after 4 weeks the front of the tank is completely covered. I'll be flooding the tank....hopefully by the end of this week when the plants I've ordered arrive.

I haven't had much experience using ADA aqua soil (also first time user).

With my experience in planted tanks, after you've added the substrate and after you find yourself content with your aquascape. You can add the plants before flooding the tank. 
Then wait 3-4 months for the tank to cycle (the substrate I've used in the past have been Flourite and Eco complete). I'm sure that the plants will benefit if you include them in the cycle process instead of waiting for the tank to cycle then add the plants.

I also believe that it will take 3-4 months for the tank to cycle (fishless cycle) using ADA aqua soil.

I would also recommend using R.O. water when you use ADA soil. 
I had extra ADA soil, so I bought a 5g tank to place it in, and at this moment I'm cultivating excess clipping of the HC from my 20g and a pot of dwarf hair grass.
I flooded this tank about 2 weeks ago with tap water (Brampton water seems to be very alkaline) and the water turned yellow.

My plan for my 20g is to use 25% tap water (conditioned) and the rest with R.O. water to prevent the yellow water.

As of plant growth, between using Flourite , Eco complete, and ADA soil&#8230;my plants experienced faster growth using ADA soil.

The only down side in using ADA soil, apart from its availability up here in Canada and the price, is that it isn't that type of substrate that should be disturbed after its settled &#8230;and the yellow water. So having strong currents that will disturb the soil or if you are the type of aqua artist that disturbs the soil a lot&#8230;I wouldn't recommend this substrate.

Cheers 
Earro


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## Earro (Apr 27, 2008)

I forgot to mention that with the initial flooding of the tank with ADA soil, I wouldn’t fill it up with a strong flow of water…your tank will be come cloudy. I filled up my 5g using an air pump tubing with a valve a the end so that you can control the out flow of water and avoid the cloudy water.


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## redclove (Feb 26, 2008)

man, I tell ya, whoever can land a deal to be an authorized ADA retailer in Toronto, will HAVE IT MADE. expensive startup, I would imagine. BUT if you build it they will come..


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## holocron (Mar 12, 2006)

I just got a large shipment of ADA products from Eugene out in BC. Great to deal with!! He only has amazonia I right now.


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## XbrandonX (Nov 22, 2007)

holocron, what did you order from Eugene?

He responded to my email (took a while) and he said the same thing; out of ada as amazonia II and on has original AS but only 3L bags, hes willing to sell 3 3L's for the price of a 9L though.. just waiting for him to get back re prices.

Earro: 3-4 _months_? Thats on a brand new fishless set up right?

I just want to upgrade my tank, can't I just lay down new substrate (be it AS or EC) and add my current tank water and and filter and be good to go?

starting to have second thoughts about AS at this point..


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## Earro (Apr 27, 2008)

Yes the 3-4 months is for a new setup.

If you end up using ADA AS then you might have to cycle the tank for a week or so... I'm not too sure...I know (from what I've read) that you will get a Ammonia spike, so adding your fishes right away would be a bad idea.

I would also say that cycling the tank for a week or so...even if you go with EC...would be a good idea...its just to be safe. 

IMO with new setups, like the one that you are planning to do... I would cycle the tank and watch the water parameters closely before adding your fishes, especially when you'll be adding fishes that you have had for a long time. 

It's always better to be safe than sorry.

Earro


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## KnaveTO (May 13, 2007)

Whenever I have set up a new tank with eco-complete, I was putting in plants after 2 days or so and the tank would get a mild ammonia spike after 5 days or so. After that I would add fish SLOWLY as you could start a new cycle with too many additions at the same time. I don't know how it is with the Amazonia soils though.


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## XbrandonX (Nov 22, 2007)

Why such a cycling period just for a tank upgrade?

I'm going from a 40 to a 90 so the water would essentially be like doing a 60% water change and adding new substrate...


ohhhhhh... I guess if I'm switching substrates Im removing a large part of the established bio filter so really all I'm dealing with is the bio filter thats living in the canister filter and my water column... I get it now.

It took me to write it out before I understood that, lol! 

I guess I'll put the fish in my 20 for a couple weeks while I cycle the 90.

Which means I'll have set up my other 40 to house my adult pleco so's it don't harass the two little pleco fry I got from Katalyst...

Wow so much to do just to upgrade a tank!

I need to strategize this a little more...

(another thread gone way off side, this time by the op  )

Well none of this affects my choice of substrate then does it?

So basically regardless of which substrate I choose I will have to wait out the initial cycle and wait for my nitrates to pop up a bit before returning the fish.

Anyone done this before? Wilson?


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## XbrandonX (Nov 22, 2007)

Wow I don't know where my head was when I wrote that last post...

Anyways, Im wondering if its really worth the difference in cost for the ADA.

I just forked out 250 for Rex's regulator, i still need to get a co2 canister, some sort of diffuser, and substrate..

Eugene out in BC still hasn't gotten back to but I called around and BA's has EC for about $30 a bag.

So new question:

Do you think its worth the difference in cost to go ADA vs EC?


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## Earro (Apr 27, 2008)

Hmmm...

If your low in budget, Eco-Complete will do the job, I'm sure it will even cycle your tank faster.

If I had a choice between ADA soil and Eco-Complete substrate for setting up a new tank, I would most likely go with Eco-Complete. Why? 

1. It will do the job for your plants.
2. It's easier to get.
3. It's a lot cheaper.

For me, getting ADA soil wasn't a "Must Have". I only wanted to try it out.
Cost wise (minus shipping..lol) ADA soil was worth it. As far as I've seen, my plants had more growth over the few weeks I've had it...comparing it to my tank with Eco-Complete.


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## XbrandonX (Nov 22, 2007)

Thanks for the response Earro..

I went out to the BA I called and as per usual the guy who gave me the info gave me the wrong info and when I got there the service was horrible and I walked out feeling disappointed and frustrated.

However, at least I didn't make any silly impulse buys that I'm often prone to, lol.

The EC that they had was all mixed up colors and looked pretty messy.

The black flourite actually looked great but i remember reading that its a PITA to rinse out and it clouds up your tank every time you plant or move any thing.. doesn't sound so fun.

I'm not sure its entirely a budget thing, it's just I've spent so much money on aquaria that I'm hesitant to spend more than I need to.

I am a firm believer in getting the best quality the first time around. So if there's big benefits to it I'll gladly order the ADA.. mind you I was hoping for the AS II, not the original.


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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

You are probably looking at the Ecocomplete for Cichlids. There are two type of EC. One for planted tanks and another for cichlids. The black flourite isn't so bad. There is a trick to handling flourite. You have to rinse the gravel gently as compare to what most people on the web says, which is "rinse the hell out of it". The entire media are just harden mud. The more you rub them, the more fine particle you'll stir up. Just do a light rinse, drop them in a tank, add water and drop in a sponge filter (Hydro sponge are perfect for this). Let the sponge run for a few hours and rinse the sponge frequently. Then do a gravel vac to pick out the stuff that collects at the bottom.

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## redclove (Feb 26, 2008)

XbrandonX said:


> I went out to the BA I called and as per usual the guy who gave me the info gave me the wrong info and when I got there the service was horrible and I walked out feeling disappointed and frustrated.


Which Big Al's was it? If it helps, I went to the Kennedy Road location 2 weeks ago during their tent sale and picked up black Eco-Complete. I am quite pleased with it, it is a lot easier to work with than the flourite. They had about 6 bags of the black at that location still left.


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## Tabatha (Dec 29, 2007)

redclove said:


> Which Big Al's was it? If it helps, I went to the Kennedy Road location 2 weeks ago during their tent sale and picked up black Eco-Complete. I am quite pleased with it, it is a lot easier to work with than the flourite. They had about 6 bags of the black at that location still left.


I've used both Flourite and Eco-complete and I have to say I like working with Eco-complete a thousand times more! In fact, I probably wouldn't but flourite again. It's easier to plant in and there's no rinsing. $30.00 a bag is CHEAP (in Canada)!


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 28, 2008)

Tabatha said:


> I've used both Flourite and Eco-complete and I have to say I like working with Eco-complete a thousand times more! In fact, I probably wouldn't but flourite again. It's easier to plant in and there's no rinsing. $30.00 a bag is CHEAP (in Canada)!


I've heard that Eco-Complete is "lighter" and that plants that take a long time to root might be more difficult to work with (i.e. will float to the surface more often); how do you feel about this?


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## Tabatha (Dec 29, 2007)

Darkblade48 said:


> I've heard that Eco-Complete is "lighter" and that plants that take a long time to root might be more difficult to work with (i.e. will float to the surface more often); how do you feel about this?


I recently purchased some creeping Jenny which was growing in a pot at the garden center. I took 5 stems and put them in my tank (Eco-complete). They were growing roots within a week and are now growing new leaves. I would think that if the substrate were heavier, it would be more difficult for the plants' new roots to push through.

As for floating plants, I think that has more to do with my HUGE female peppered cory than anything else, she's like a bulldozer! I really need to put in cooler water for the next water change so she can spawn, she's as big as a house!


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## redclove (Feb 26, 2008)

Darkblade48 said:


> I've heard that Eco-Complete is "lighter" and that plants that take a long time to root might be more difficult to work with (i.e. will float to the surface more often); how do you feel about this?


I agree with Tabatha, the eco-complete is easier to plunk your plants into, and they don't slip out as easily. I'm thinking that because the flourite is chunkier, there are more spaces or gaps between pieces. The eco-complete settles nice and dense in comparison, which holds onto roots and objects better. Aesthetically, I prefer the way it looks too.


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## redclove (Feb 26, 2008)

Hey Tabatha, were are you finding it for $30 a bag? The BA's I got it from was $34.99..


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## Tabatha (Dec 29, 2007)

redclove said:


> Hey Tabatha, were are you finding it for $30 a bag? The BA's I got it from was $34.99..


xbrandonx said he could get it for $30.00/bag but that's before shipping and taxes, of course: http://gtaaquaria.com/forum/showpost.php?p=23991&postcount=15


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## XbrandonX (Nov 22, 2007)

Ya that was the misinformation I was referring to. It turned out to be 39.99.

It wasn't the cichlid stuff, I'm familiar to that stuff too.. its more salt n pepper colored.. this stuff was mostly black but with maybe 3% white bits etc. the other two bags were mostly black with like 15% multi colored bits in it.. I've read about recent bad batches of EC on TPT.

I'll go with EC if I can find some nice black stuff..


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## XbrandonX (Nov 22, 2007)

redclove said:


> Which Big Al's was it? If it helps, I went to the Kennedy Road location 2 weeks ago during their tent sale and picked up black Eco-Complete. I am quite pleased with it, it is a lot easier to work with than the flourite. They had about 6 bags of the black at that location still left.


It was the BA in Mississauga... seems to be bad experience after bad experience with the service there...

please keep in mind I am only referring to the SERVICE and it's the service I'm getting. Others may have different experiences this is just mine.


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## NuclearTech (Mar 23, 2008)

Just a plug for fluorite here. I have to agree with zebra... I've put fluorite in 2 of my tanks now and yes, there is some haziness initially, however I just put the stuff in a bucket, rinse it gently and then put it in the tank. The haze was gone within 24 hours. I've never had a problem with floating plants/ messiness when moving the gravel around and I think that's just because you have to have enough of it and give it that initial rinse.

Now that's not to say that anything is wrong with EC. I'm sure it's great stuff although I've never tried it. I'm just saying that fluorite has worked well for me and I haven't found it to be a PITA at all. Plus it's a bit cheaper.


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## Tabatha (Dec 29, 2007)

NuclearTech said:


> Now that's not to say that anything is wrong with EC. I'm sure it's great stuff although I've never tried it. I'm just saying that fluorite has worked well for me and I haven't found it to be a PITA at all. Plus it's a bit cheaper.


Wait till you try EC, you'll never look back, trust me, I've tried both!


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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2006)

XbrandonX said:


> Ya that was the misinformation I was referring to. It turned out to be 39.99.
> 
> It wasn't the cichlid stuff, I'm familiar to that stuff too.. its more salt n pepper colored.. this stuff was mostly black but with maybe 3% white bits etc. the other two bags were mostly black with like 15% multi colored bits in it.. I've read about recent bad batches of EC on TPT.
> 
> I'll go with EC if I can find some nice black stuff..


Yes, I've heard the same thing about the EC substrate of death stories. I think it has something to do with the EC crashing the gH or something like that. Can't remember anymore. EC is nice, but I've heard that the ADA soil is much better. What you guys like about the substrate being compact is actually not very good for the plants. You need them to be lose so there is room for the roots to grow. That's what gives the ADA soil the advantage over EC.

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## XbrandonX (Nov 22, 2007)

Ok so I finally got some info about getting some ADA AS to Toronto and to ship from ADG it'll cost $270 for shipping alone.

To ship off that guy from BC (eugene) it'll cost $290 including shipping and soil.

Either way, thats a little beyond the scope of sanity as far as I'm concerned.

Although I was really trying to justify it for a good 24 hours or so... lol


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## KnaveTO (May 13, 2007)

What... only 24 hours... LOL

I would have worked that one over for at least 72 before I finally said no.

As for the EC vs Flourite argument.

I have used Flourite Red, Eco-complete and Flourite Black Sand. I find the Eco-complete to be a bit more easier to deal with on new tanks, however when adding something to existing tanks I prefer the flourite black sand. Word to the wise, EC can be a tad sharp in places. I frequently have some small cuts and abrasions with the EC after aquascaping. It has gotten to the point that I now wear surgical gloves when working in my tanks. If you decide to start wearing them, make sure they are not latex and are non-powdered.


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